001[Music] Everyone, I am going to call our 6:00 public information session to order. Uh, we'll be talking about tonight. We have until 7 o'clock to talk about the reconstruction of Camp Street and Corbin Avenue. Um, I don't know if I'm kicking it off to the town manager or Mr. Bossi, but I'll look at the town manager first and see what happens. Sure. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, yes, Mr. Bossi is here. I think it would be more appropriate uh for him to guide us through. His presentation is loaded up on the uh on the big screen. There is a printed handout for for the council as well. Um, and obviously we're we're here to talk about the reconstruction of of Camp Street and Corbin Avenue with uh as it relates to funding we're getting from
002from the state. And the state um has also uh requested of the town to consider sidewalks. And that's the reason uh we're here. We would without that we would probably just be having a uh publicformational meeting about the project and distilling information about how that would unfold. But because they're adding in the uh request for sidewalks and our ordinance requires a public hearing process because um what they see or or they're requesting is that our trail, future trail that is going through, they'd like to be able to connect the neighborhood safely through a sidewalk system to get down uh off of South Washington where there will be a um parking parking lot and then from there a spur trail that will go down to connect to the the main trail. So, um, and that's just
003North Washington, correct? Sorry. Yeah, Washington. Okay. I'm sorry. And I just before we get into this, and I probably should have asked one of the 10 times we talked today, but is it possible to have handouts available for anyone who wants one, and I don't know if we have copies already, but yeah, we can we can print more. We can print more. I have a feeling Andy's going to be hitting the copier. I can hit the copier. Yes. Sorry about that. I should have mentioned that earlier, but here we have online. No, just just for sight if you if you um you be able to have it in front of you. That's all. But we can give that away and we can just if someone wants to take one with them tonight after we're done.
004All right. Thank you. Yeah. So, with that, I'll I'll introduce our engineer, John Bossy, who can uh walk us through uh the project for Camp Street and Corbin Avenue. Right. Good evening, John. Good evening. Um, should I wait until the copies or I mean can I I could start. Um, first of all, um, the town has was was rewarded a grant from DOT um for the reconstruction of a section of Camp Street and all of Corbin Avenue. Um, so we are proposing to reconstruct Camp Street from Bradley to Corbin Avenue and then Corbin Avenue from Camp Street to North Washington Street. Now the the reason why the other section of Camp Street from Camp or from Corbin to North Washington Street isn't included in this is because um DOT's got classifications for different types of
005roads. Um this particular project is for minor arterials in greater and the section of uh camp street between Corbin Avenue and North Washington Street is classified as a residential road. Um so it's excluded basically it's not eligible for this particular model this particular program's funding in in any event. Um, if this project were to proceed, um, the town with its own local funds would schedule the reconstruction or repaving of that section that's not included in this. Um, from a construction scheduling standpoint, if the referendum is approved tomorrow, it makes a lot easier from a scheduling standpoint. It would likely get reconstructed next year. So camp from Cor Camp Street from Corbin to North Washington Street contingent upon the approval of the referendum of tomorrow would most likely get paved next spring. And that would most
006likely involve milling off some of the existing pavement and putting back a new surface and then putting lines uh pavement markings and maybe doing some refreshing of the signs. The project at hand is the reconstruction of the other section of Camp Street in Corbin Corbin Avenue. Now, the reconstruction um uh sorry, John, just let me know when you want me to advance the slides. Okay. I'm just doing still doing the inter. That's what I figured. Yeah. All right. Um so, the estimated cost of our particular this particular program is about $2.3 million. Um it's a it's a substantial project. Um, it will be fully designed by the town of Planeville as was previous lots of projects. And this schedule is is highly dependent on DOT. They have to approve the project. So, but we're shooting
007for um a start of construction next September with a majority of the project completed by November or December 1st with the remaining part whatever doesn't get done to be done um first thing in the spring. So, all told, the project, if everything works out right and all the pieces fall into place, will be done sometime in the neighborhood of uh May 31st, uh, 2027. All right, I'm just going to interrupt you for a second. Anyone, you have copies of the presentation. If anyone wants one, just, you know, give a quick raise of your hand. Thank you, Sydney, for handling that. Thank you. The good thing is we're still on page one. No one's mistake. And John, well, just what can you explain lots of just a high level for those that don't know what Lots
008is? It's local capital improvement program. It's a it's a a program for it's a state program. It's a state program. It's a grant from the from the state of Connecticut to local municipalities to improve um higher level streets, local streets that are not quite a state highway but not not residential. So you the projects that we've been involved in in this program previously was we did reconstruction, we did paving on Cook Street, we did some work on Northwest Drive a few years back. We did mine road and we're currently wrapping up Whiting Street. So, it's major roads in in in a community. Thank you, Andy. If you can switch to the next. Now, I I can't see it from here, so I'm going to have to you're going to have to refer to your maps.
009This is the section of Corbin Avenue. Um the project is pretty straightforward from from an engineering standpoint. We're going to do full depth restoration which means we're going to excavate out the existing pavement and base material and add new pavement new base material and pavement along with that all existing curb will be removed and replaced. There'll be some driveway ramps that because of because of the construction will get redone and driveway ramp would be something within the part of your driveway that's in the right away six seven feet maybe a little bit less than that depending on what we what we do. Um, we're going to make some repairs to the catch basins. All the tops on the catch basins will get re get replaced. Um, we will we've got some work that we've got
010to do in regards to the state overpass. This is a state project that they always throw a few of their own concerns in and we have to replace all the fence as part of this project and we clean up the area underneath the underpass. Um there might be some lawn restoration that's required um as a result of excavating the road or or doing the work. We might damage some of the um the grass that's in the right away. Um so that will be repaired and we'll install new signage and new pavement markings. I don't know if there's any questions. Is the road in itself going to be widened? Um is it the same? Not on Corbin Avenue. It won't be. Um on Camp Street, there'll be some sections because the curb kind of winds around
011a little bit. It'll be straightened out. So I mean on Corbin Avenue, basically the road will remain the same width. And one other thing, the uh drive I mean the uh sidewalk if if it's going to stay in the same location, the road main road, it's got to stay in the same location. What are you doing to a five- foot sidewalk both sides of the road or? Um, I'll get to that question, but we're putting the sidewalk out. We're proposing to put the sidewalk on one side and that would be on Bradley Street. That's what we're proposing to put it on. Um, if there's if there's any other questions, I'll address that and then I'll address the sidewalk separately. I've got I've got actually um a chat GTP image of what the sidewalk will look
012like. You're very excited about this, right? Yes. So, as far as sidewalk proposal, it is only Bradley Street we're talking about. Well, it camp I mean Camp Street is an option. It's not it's not as desirable an option. If if it was if there was disagreement or dissension in regards to installing sidewalk on Bradley Street, we we would set forth the proposal to put the only place that you're talking about adding sidewalk at this time. Right now, right now, our ideal situation would be to add sidewalk on Bradley Street. I know this is not part of the proposal in any way, shape, or form. I live on Corbin Avenue, 8 Corbin Avenue, Mark City. Um the thing the problem that I continue to see on that street and I do think the town does need
013to address it very highly is that as soon as cars come from Camp Street onto Corbin, they will literally race down that street as fast as possible to try to beat that light at the end of the at the end of the street. In my humble opinion, I don't know about my neighbors, I would and I would volunteer to put this in front of my house. speed hump would be desirable just to slow the flow of traffic going down that street all hours of the day both directions. Um that's continued to be problematic. I walk through town. Half of these people probably see me. I walk we got tons of pavement in this town. We don't need anymore in my humble opinion as well. But that is one of the most dangerous things I see
014there. and then uh Camp Street to North Washington. That no left turn sign that's there, people will ignore that constantly. And I have seen so many close accidents there that it's it's just it's absolutely ridiculous. So from a safety issue, somebody who lives there personally, I'm just throwing that out there. Um traffic coming on Corbin Avenue is is something that we can consider. You keep in mind though that on an arterial road um there are standards in regards to favorabil whether or not an agency outside the town would would would approve that. It's it's a safety. It's not just traffic count. It has count. Well, I said traffic count calming. I mean, that's that's the term that that the professionals use for speed humps. And there's other there's other ways to manipulate the street is
015very dangerous. I have a hard time crossing the street to my neighbor because of the way that people speed around that corner. They will literally hit that the corner and they will go as fast all hours of the day. Okay. Well, I I hear you. My son lives on camp and I can't get out of his driveway without a street sign. However, I will say speed bumps have the other the the negative piece is they sometimes get a car airborne and going to your front yard. That's a Well, we've already had a car in our front yard last year, too. So, so we had somebody who had a seizure. Yeah. Um ended up in our They can be dangerous in our in our yard. So, I mean, that's something we can look at and we
016can have a dialogue with DOT. And is that the process? We would have to talk to DOT just they would have to give some sort of input I guess lack of a better term. The process would be you as the council and in the informing the traffic authority y manager that they would like us to design traffic caling on this road. Okay. And we would maybe install a traffic speed. Just put somebody with a camera there. I mean one day you'll see. We do have we do have the we do have intentions to put in um the radar signs whether or not they work or not to any great extent. Um you know we we have incorporated these in other projects similar to this. Um the newer ones have the ability to actually track and
017notify say for instance the police department that you know people are speeding or tell them okay between the hours of 6:30 and quarter to 7 every day somebody's somebody's traveling at a super high rate of speed and potentially they can be aggressive and and station somebody there to make a stop of some sort. Um, but anyways, well, I think from our perspective, it's it's something we certainly are going to take away both the lefthand turn or no left-hand turn signs and the the speed on Corbin that as we fur, you know, get into this and discuss it further. It's certainly something we're going to put on the table. Thank you. Okay. I know this is just talking about this particular project for this for the trafficcoming, but I think Planville has a bigger issue that
018they need to come up with some standards with the trafficcoming and the sides of the size of these speed bumps and how they're marked because there are some speed bumps in that have been put on metac and when the sun is shining just the right way, you cannot see those speed bumps. Okay? And you know, you're driving along and you're like, "Oh, I know it's here somewhere." Okay? But they're not properly marked and you know they're not colored or anything and on metacomtic or old on metacomtic because the way the light hits it at certain times of the day they just look like part of the road because they're not colored you know they're not painted white or yellow or whatever. Okay. And I think the size of these speed bumps, if we're just talking
019speed bumps, there's got to be some standards where because how come your car will bottom out on one set and won't bottom out on another set, you know what I mean? So, it's like trying to know these and I live over on top of at Weatherstone Ridge Road and I hit I'm at the Metacomtit side. I'm on Betsy Road all the time. So, I live with these speed bumps because they're kind of like the two ways I come around town a lot. So, I think speed bumps are probably something we have to do. I don't like them, but it's something we have to do. And I'm just saying I know this is just this project, but we should come up with a little bit better standards on how to mark them, what size they should
020be so that if people don't, you know, get hurt on them. and this might be an opportunity to start moving in that direction. All right. Thank you. And I Yeah, I don't know if you want to turn to page three or I don't want to like disrupt anyone asking questions, but is everybody okay so far for Corbin? I just trying to keep track of time a little bit. I want to make sure we get all the information out there before seven. Go ahead. I just had one more question. relative to the sidewalk. Would there be a sidewalk at on a We're not proposing a sidewalk on Corbin Avenue. No. Not that's not to say we couldn't put one there, but we're not proposing it. It's the reasons why we're not putting it on Camp Street
021or Corbin Avenue is because the goal is to get to the bike trail. They have to cross uh Route 177. Um in order to cross Route 177 at Camp Street, it's uncontrolled. So, one would have to take their life in their hands, hope that they recog that that all three lanes recognize you as you're crossing the road, which we don't feel is safe. Now, when we get to Corbin Avenue, Corbin Avenue has a light, we could put we could put control on there so that they can cross. However, when they get on the other side of the road, um there if there's a bank on the cemetery and there's a banks over there, so the cost of installing a sidewalk gets really really expensive and and in the case of the cemetery, we may not
022even be able to do it because we may not have enough room to create the the retaining wall and then the sidewalk. Good. So, there won't be no no sidewalks there. Well, as it as it stands right now, no, the propo the proposal tonight doesn't Just we'll make a note of that. Yeah. All right. Go ahead, Jen. Okay. Um Yes. Uh saying 5 foot sidewalk. What is there like 2 feet between the road and the sidewalk? And then it's a 5 foot sidewalk. It will be similar to that. And when I get to that point, I will I'll try to demonstrate what we're trying to do. I mean, I want I don't want to skip too far ahead otherwise we'll get distracted. Now, Camp Street's pretty much the same thing with one one exception. There
023are some trees on Camp Street that are right close to the road. One for sure that's going to be removed. So, that tree that there's a large tree. I think it's like maybe 121 camp something. I don't know exactly that, but it hangs out into the street. It's growing into the street. That's that tree is going to be removed as part of this this project. I only mention that because some people love trees and other people just want to see them disappear. So, just but that tree and there might be a one or two other trees that are close to the road that might need to be removed. We will be straightening out the curb. We'll probably hold one side and then and manage manage the other one. Um we haven't really gotten to that
024point in the details of the design. So I mean we I don't know if there's any other there's questions specific to Camp Street. Okay, we can go to the um the sidewalk and I think we'll start with the the f the what it's going to look like. Okay. Um for what it's worth, um chat gtp um you give it a little bit of information and it spits out a it spits out a drawing. In this particular case, we took some um photographs, gave it some dimensions and told it what we were looking to do. And you can see that this is what the sidewalk is going to be. There's going to be a five foot foot wide sidewalk running on the southernly side of of of Bradley Street from from camp to North Washington Street.
025There will be a two to two and a half three foot tree belt. Um grass strip between the curb and the um front of the sidewalk. Um, all this sidewalk is going to be constructed within the rightway. There are a few few items that people have planted in the town's rightway that will be relocated. I think there's a sign, if you look on your plan, there's a sign that needs to be relocated that we will take care of as part of the project and there's some landscaping that will probably be removed. Yes. So, is the sidewalk being proposed that's on Bradley suit? That is that the side that it where 72 on and off ramps come on and off as well? Um, this is the side that goes up along and then you ultimately reach
026the intersection where the the convenience store gas station is. The side goes from the convenience store down there on that side of the down to the pump station. If you're looking up towards If you're looking up towards North Boston, it'll be on the right hand side. That's what he's saying. Not where the new development is on the left. It's going to be on the right hand side going up. Am I correct? Yes, you're correct. And that the reason why we chose that is you don't have a double cross. You have only a single crossing the state highway. And then on on uh North Washington Street, there'll be about 300 feet of sidewalk that will take you from directly across the intersection to the driveway of the new parking lot that will be associated with the
027um the multi-use trail. You're not proposing anything though as far as sidewalk that extends to 72 to cross over or anything? No, because the goal is to bring them to the the multi-use trail. multi-use trail will have access point at on the north side of the the exit ramp. I mean, there is a separate project that DOT informed us that they're going to put in pedestrian ramps at both the on-ramp and the and the offramp. So, I mean, that's something that they they chose traffic flow. You got people that come that go right off the highway coming from 84 onto 72 there. They can both take both lanes can take a right. Well, only one lane legally can take a right, but they do it anyway. They do it anyway. And but if you're stopping
028at that light to head toward to to the to the left instead, again, I I won't I'll vouch for myself, but you can ask my neighbors. You you go left to try to get on to Corbin Avenue. You literally have to pause five to 10 seconds because nine times out of 10 somebody will blow through that red light no matter how red how long it's been there. So if anything has to do with pedestrians there I would nick since that's outside this project and it's really outside us we've already when they when they introduced that to us we already objected to it and they they took it for what it was worth. I guess object object highly in my opinion. I mean, their their goal is is that every intersection needs to be ADA ADA
029compliant without a ramp. They're going to be dealing with the whole people. A lot more disabilities than it. It's kind of a a convoluted argument only because um now this is my personal opinion. You you introduce pedestrians at a rather unsafe inter point. Now you introduce you're encouraging a group of people that have an impairment. Whatever that impairment is, they have an impairment which puts them at a greater disadvantage than somebody that's able-bodied. So but but that's the way the law is written from the standpoint of ADA. Um so the sidewalk will be 5t wide be concrete. Um it'll run the length of Bradley Street from Cor from from from Cook Street Camp Street. Street and there'll be a small small section on North on North Washington Street that will lead you to the to
030the driveway to go into the um new new parking lot. I have a quick question. Yes. Um are there any plans to then extend that sidewalk past the end of Bradley Street down street at all or would this just end at Bradley Street? Well, this project would end at Bradley Street and there's financial constraints to why it's got to it's got to have a termin terminus there. Yeah. So, like in the future, is there any desire to cuz if it just ends at Bradley Street, then like up Camp Street there's no sidewalks up there and it's the same situation as Corbin Avenue where people fly up and down that road that and at least on the opposite side of the road at least it's a continuation all the way down one side. But if it's
031on this side of the road, there's still an intersection that a lot of people roll through that people are having to pass. Okay. I mean, I can't speak for the council on how they would would continue to extend the sidewalk, but it is reasonable to extend the sidewalk um westerly towards Bristol, whether it's on the the north side of the road or the south side. That's, you know, you could pick either either side. I mean, granted, we're already on the south side, so the logical place would be to put it on the south side. Yeah. And there's a There's a process. I mean, um, residents can petition the town to extend sidewalk and they go through a, um, you know, goes through a budgetary type of process where monies are allocated for it. Um, and,
032you know, it it isn't necessarily a common practice extending sidewalk, but it's very doable. I mean, but I think what we're trying to understand is what's the point of putting the sidewalk if there's not going to be like who is it bringing to? Well, I mean DOT is the F the reason DOT is suggesting that we do it. There's a new development that's got some 40 houses in and then there's side of the road on the well you don't want I mean I I don't know whether it's it's safer to cross that the kind of a midblock or going up to the intersection and crossing. It's you're people crossing the road with this the volume of traffic on that road and possibly the speeds on that road. It's not the safest in the world. Well,
033I think that's what I think it's that's where it's confusing then because there's so all of the people that are on that side of the road have to cross the road with no crosswalk to that sidewalk. Well, I mean, we and anybody that's using that sidewalk beyond Bradley Street then has to cross a road over to no sidewalk. It's bringing new new It's bringing no new people there. That's what she is. It's bringing the people that bought the new houses to walk up the road. But they're all crossing the road. They're all crossing the road there. But it's not bringing anybody from Bristol because they have to go down Bradley Street, park in the new area that you're going to de or make off. So that's what I'm that's what she's trying to say. I'm
034not trying to interrupt you. Well, thank you. I mean the intersection for the new development and the people on on the north side um as part of the sidewalk, there'll be a ramp on the new sidewalk and we will be putting in those beacons that flash to like the one that's near the high school. Whether or not that's makes it safe enough, I I I can't, you know, answer to that. I mean, it's as safe as we can make a crossing without putting a traffic signal in a in a dedicated walk cycle. um whether extending it westerly to to encompass the people that live westerly of this project site. That's something that um the council would have to evaluate either as part of this project on their own or as something in the future. And
035John, could I just ask like have we ever any rendition of what sidewalks would look like in that area? Is that something we've ever even entertained? I I don't recall, but you know, is it something we've ever thought about even? Well, until recently, one side of the road, the north side was out because there was that retaining wall. And on the south side of the road, you had you had the industrial use that was my Yep. Um, so it was kind of a it was kind of a I don't know. It was a mixed use that wasn't and it wasn't two solutions. Yeah. You had two not bad options. changed. Now we've got IUD out of business to to some great to greater extent and the retaining wall has been removed. So it might be
036viable now or more viable to have a sidewalk that goes there. And I don't know the the the dilemma that I have when I'm when I'm thinking about the sidewalk in general in this area. DOT thinks people are going to walk from from Camp Street area, whether it's Bradley or whatever, to the bike trail. Um, is that a practical is that's practical? Is somebody going to walk about a half a mile to get on a bike trail? I mean, and then are they just going to turn around and come back? So, I mean, I I struggle with that in in a in a practical standpoint because um people are usually going to walk maybe no more than an hour, which means that they're going to walk probably no more than four or four and a
037half miles. And that's at a pretty fast pace. So, it's like almost 3/4 of a mile just to reach where the the main trail is going to be. And they're just pretty much going to turn around and and come back. I live on the corner of Camp and Bradley. My daughter and I through the summer ride our bikes on the bike path every single day. and the fact that it takes me, given she's nine and ADHD, 45 minutes to pack up my bikes, pack up helmets, make snacks, get all of that to drive to Northwest Drive. If I had a safe sidewalk from my house to this proposed location for the parking lot, which is going to then be attached to the main bike path, I would absolutely use it. And I know that the
038neighbors on either side of me who are not here today but have young children would as well. Okay. I at one point rode my bike to work on Stafford A in Bristol. I did it once. I will never ride my bike again on Camp Street or Bradley. But that sidewalk does make a huge difference. Okay. Yes. I live farther down in Camp Street. I I don't live in the proposed area. I live a little bit I guess it's called lower camp street. I live on 241. Um I have two younger kids. I will not if there was no sidewalk. I will not have them walk down the road. I don't want them playing in the front yard because there's been too many car accidents, too many issues. So I would rather get in my car
039and drive to to the to the basically the parking area than I would walk. If there was a if there was actually a sidewalk, I might consider it. But then I have to be worried about some guy or some person coming up the road and hitting my kids when I'm trying to cross. That's my concern. Um, you know, I also have fences, so if it was on the left or the right, depending on what side it was, it would probably take away my fence, things of that nature, too. Damage my yard, you know. But I think having a sidewalk, it would benefit people that live on Camp Street or live in the development behind me that would probably walk to go to the place. I'm kind of torn between the issue because I don't know
040if it's going to be better or worse. I think with the amount of traffic that comes through that road, especially at night, and I'm granted the part, the walking thing will be closed because at dusk, but you still have a lot of people do not pay attention and they just fly up that road and they don't care who or what they hit. And I've seen it. They buses have cars every morning fly by and they she honks and I know the bus driver very well. And she's like, I I can't get it. I don't I don't get it. So, why would anybody want to walk on that road where you have a chance of getting killed? I mean, that's that's my concern, you know? I've had I lived in that two for seven years. I've
041had six car accidents in seven years in three of them, but and been in my front yard. So, yeah, I think that's my main concern, too, is I mean, like, obviously, yeah, I'd like to not have my drive my yard dug up, but that's not my main concern. We don't walk on our own road because it's not safe. And frankly, I don't know if it'll make a difference if there's a sidewalk because unless you guys are going to do something to make that intersection guaranteed safe for people crossing because I've seen tons of people plow through crosswalks when they're not paying attention and people at that light constantly cut the red. They cut through the left once it turns red because they're trying to beat the green light. People go wherever they want there and
042it's not safe on the road either. They speed up to try and race down the road. our neighbors to the left of us have lost lost their mailbox twice in like the five years we've lived here because people jump the curb driving on a straight road. So I think the concern is unless you guys can do something to guarantee that the pedestrians this is going to draw in are going to be safe. That seems like not the best plan because now we're bringing more people in and more pedestrians but we're not doing anything to make them safer like they said. Oh, go ahead. Ask your question. I just want to say that the whole issue of sidewalks in Planeville is an issue. I think we're better off putting a sidewalk in if we've got funding
043for it so at least some people can be safe because I can tell you Clint I live again up on top of Metaccom and Pinnacle. Try walking around that pond during the day. Like I can't tell you how many times I've almost been like smashed or my dog. But I think getting a sidewalk installed even there's still some questions about it is better than nothing because then maybe we can go a little bit farther and a little bit farther because at least if you're on a sidewalk to take a walk even if you don't go to the trail you're safer than walking on the side of the road. So I mean in terms of like safety we need cyclops all over town but at least we can get one now you know to be a
044little safer just walk down the street and just my my comment was going to be what's John what's like the next steps you know after we gather the information are we allowed to give the feedback to the state on this project and work with them I mean the purpose of this particular meeting is to gather what information the public wants and then the town yourselves acting for the town make make a recommendation telling the state that you know we either support putting a sidewalk there or you know what we held these meetings and there wasn't enough there wasn't enough support and we we don't we don't want to do it. So it's like the first step is just for us to let them know yes we would like sidewalks on Bradley Street correct on the
045south side. I mean, in the end, it's it's the town's decision whether sidewalks get put there or not. There might be some fallout in regards to what the state might do if if we go in a direction that they don't want to go go in. Well, and that's what like cuz I think, you know, to their point, I I mean, I think state Yeah. sidewalks on the south side of Bradley Street would make that area safer. The question is though that intersection of Camp and Bradley, you know, how do we make it if people are trying to get from that part of Camp Street or any of the developments that are down there, you know, they are going to have to cross the Bradley Street at some point and how and that would be my
046concern is putting in the sidewalks is great because it does make it safer, but you know, I think we're trying to think if we ever consider moving down Camp Street with more sidewalks at some point, we we got to make a safe crossing at that intersection, I believe, or or the I mean, as a as a community, um, now for those that are not familiar, the state of Connecticut has a complete street policy. In other words, they they've deemed every street in the state of Connecticut um suitable for all three modes of transportation, motorized, human human power, and walking. Um, I don't know whether you all agree that every street in the state of Connecticut is is something that we should allow all of them. And I mean, you have the right to be there,
047but but I mean, it's not safe necessarily, or at least many people won't feel safe. Um, but that's that's the reason why they're suggesting sidewalks is because there's a box when they do the review of our project that says, "Is this uh this does this comp comply with the street this uh street safe model, complete street policy? Yes or no? And if it's no, well, we're going to make a suggestion because that's that's what my group is supposed to protect. And we'll place this ask the town whether or not to include it." Now, the town has the right we as we were asked three times before they actually personally came down and told us that they would like us to do this. Um, and we we we said that we didn't believe that putting sidewalk
048there was appropriate because we felt between the speeds and the volume of traffic, it wasn't safe necessarily to have pedestrians and bicyclists encourage them to be there. Um ultimately they persuaded us to get to this point where we will hold a public meeting so that we can discuss the matter and if we got you know the wrong we didn't get the support that we needed then we could present that to them and they would back down. Now I don't know what backing down really means because many times they write they give me a comment for a design and um the comment is they say advisory but in in the end it's not advisory. It's kind of more mandatory because you don't get the money if you don't do this. So um that's where we're kind
049of at. Okay. Okay. Can we get um I it's funny first quarter I got statistics on accidents from the police department for just Bradley and camp. So first quarter this year u reported accidents you you know sometimes people don't call um five on camp two on Bradley two on the corner of camp and Bradley I mean maybe we should get look at accident reports and infractions stating um those statistics are readily available from the police department and I saw a couple hands go up. Do you want to just do just I'm sorry to take your take up some of your time, but is there I apologize if you already covered it, but is there a reason we're not considering the north side considering that would bypass the camp? Like there'd be no three-way intersection, you'd
050be on the north side all the way down and then given on Camp Street in Bristol there is a sidewalk further up near the baseball field. So, if it were that and they did consider bringing it down, at least you'd be staying once you cross that big intersection near the gas station, you'd be staying on the same side of the road all the way down. And then potentially, yes, he did say, well, the reason why we put it on the south side was simply because um if you put it on the north side, you'd have to cross in front on North Washington Street. You'd have to make an L to cross the road. So, because the all the equipment for the control to cross the road, there's actually equipment there to cross the road. you
051cross on a side side street green, but there's a walk cycle there. Um, so all the equipment is on the um the southwest corner. So in order to put a crossing on the say the northwest corner, we'd have to bring all the equipment, all the traffic equipment from one side of the road to the other. Have to put equipment at the end of the road for the new crossing over the camp though if you're going to have it go to the end of the road. No, West Washington. the crosswalk. No, not at the main intersection down like where is at the end of like the freeway intersection. Well, there would be no there would be a c it's c no crossing there. It's a terminate. It's an end to the sidewalk. It's just ends. So,
052people are going to walk to the end and loop back pretty much or it's it's it's incomplete. It's an incomplete network. Yeah. Yeah, I think I'm just where's like where is this going if you're going to consider that sometime in the Well, the goal is the goal is the goal is to go easterly towards the multi-use path. So So eventually putting in a crosswalk. So eventually it would it the sidewalk would extend westerly if that was the the choice of the town. And um so in a perfect world if we did keep developing this you'd be crossing at the main big intersection and then again there and then if you wanted to go up camp street into Bristol again versus just keeping it all on one side would make more sense. Well, I mean, I
053just I didn't know why the other side wasn't other than the main reason was because of the at the intersection of North Washington, Unionville Avenue in Bradley Street. That was the main reason. Has has the state indicated that they prefer not to have to put a crosswalk on the northwest and northeast corner of that intersection? Yeah. Unfortunately, the state didn't give us any guidance in regards to matter of fact, they actually encouraged us to put it on Camp Street until we we across from West Cemetery stood up and said that, you know, this is ridiculous because you have three lanes of traffic there. I mean, so I mean, we were the ones that suggested moving into Bradley Street for based on the fact that there was a traffic signal there. Um, so they haven't provided
054us any any real detail in regards to this. As I said, my gut tells me that it's just they want to put a check in a box and go on from there. So, it sounds like there is an opportunity for us to provide feedback because quite honestly, it does make sense, I think, to have the sidewalk on the north side because it would make if we decided to extend sidewalks westerly, it would at some whatever point the town decided to, it would make sense to keep it all. But like I said, if if you know, if right now you have you'd have to do the L to get across North Washington. It, you know, I don't know if that's a non-starter for the state to even consider putting a a crosswalk, you know, on that
055particular site. From a cost standpoint, you change the you change the dynamics of the project because traffic signals the need modifications on traffic signals quite expensive. Okay, Chris. Yes. Question. Yeah, John. Uh, just two questions. um thinking of how many people would have access to the sidewalk on Bradley. The question is, you know, obviously we have the new Trumbull Estates um project and there were quite a few houses in there. Now on the camp uh on the other project of Samuel's Crossing, which is I think complete or nearly complete. Um do those folks have a way of getting coming into the Trumble Estates? I don't think there's a road, but is there is there a pedestrian or bike access that they would have? There is no interconnection between the neighbors. There's no okay you got
056to remember that the neighborhood of S Crossing is a condominium, right? And the other one's single family. So there isn't any real any real cross section cross connection. I mean, there the way they would enter the or get to that area would be to come out on their they have a they have a right away that comes out on the camp street kind of opposite where I use driveway is. And they they could come out there and then they would have to walk along the the north side of the road until they came up sidewalk. Yeah. I just wanted to know, you know, if the if the um the homeowners in Samuel's Crossing would be able to come through Trumbles Estate and get on the sidewalk. Unlikely. It's unlikely. I mean, if the only way
057to do it probably, they'd have to do it privately, correct? Between the two associations or or whatever it is. Yeah. Okay. Oh, and John, also you you said this, but I guess I'm asking you to repeat it. If it goes on the south side of Bradley Street, the sidewalk, that it would be entirely on town rightway property. That's correct. There is no rightway taking. Okay. I just thought it was worth repeating repeating that. Yeah. And confirming it. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes. The way I see it is if the south side of Bradley makes the most sense and then future use you put a crossing where the where the entrance to Trumble Meadows is. If we in the future we were going to extend the sidewalk up Camp Street, it brings it back from the
058intersection so it's safer. It's only one road crossing instead of two. Does that make sense? Yeah. And that and I I would assume there's going to be some way for Sam's Crossing to get into Trouble Meadows. I think it's same developer. they they'll probably put some type of pathway like they did for the middle school. Um, but to me, if if we are doing a sidewalk, the southside does make sense, especially since they want to connect it to the bike trail. Right. Any other comments, qu? No, I'm just I think there's one in two parts to this side. So voting this down affect the we're getting to do the do the roadway like if we voted it down voted down the sidewalks. Well, it was a suggestion made by DOT. Um you know we did
059we were allocated the money we were awarded the grant. Um they might change some of the other conditions, but I mean we look at putting like a sidewalk like on the railroad tracks anybody's yards. I mean the sidewalk the the addition of the sidewalk on the on the project is suggestion. If we take them dot for their word, then the suggestion means that you have the right to say no and decline or say yes and accept. So, um, it's kind of a the sidewalk is going to be on the road. It's just a matter of whether it's on Camp Street, which we feel is undesirable. We feel that Bradley Street is more desirable, or we could decide, the council could decide that it's, you know, undesirable to put a sidewalk there at all. Yes. speaking
060from somebody who walks about six miles a day throughout town through all all areas of town whether they have sidewalk or not and I'm talking to the council now Planville has a glut of sidewalks through town we have enough cement we don't need anymore I'd like to see a little more green space to be quite honest so um and as far as safety is concerned if you can address the safety issues rather than worry about accessibility the bike path. I think as a homeowner that is more my concern. I'm more concerned about people having accidents or getting hit more so because of speed, not necessarily because of sidewalks. That's noted. Thank you. And speed humps, not bumps. Speed. No, I understand. Yep. Anyone else with any comments or questions? One quick question. Is the grant
061or the allocation from the state is it based upon putting a sidewalk in or or is it can we do something else like does it have to have a sidewalk? We decide not to put the sidewalk in. Well, I mean does that money go away or that's what I'm trying to the limits of the construction are set. Okay. Um if the sidewalk was say not included, it would just mean that the project would be that the scope would be that much less. So the money would be the money would be the money would be given to another community to do whatever whatever other project. It's everything or nothing. Well, no. I mean we we it's every it's it's not everything or nothing. We have the the the funds to do the roadway to do the
062roadway. You just said that it was allocated and then if we don't use that for what they want it for, it goes to another town. Well, they've allocated they've allocated through estimates of three $2.3 million. Okay. of that there's probably about $600 or $700,000 that is directly related to the sidewalk. If we choose not to do the sidewalk, the the grant would be $600,000 less than what the way you said it. Okay, I get that now just be I just what's the next step for this? I I take it that at some point the town needs to sit down with DOT and give some feedback. Well, the next step is the way I see it is is that we you make a decision one one way or the other and then we convey that decision
063to Prague and D and go from there. Okay. Yeah. you could in this deliberation, as John said, you make you, you know, you make the decision to move forward based on the public hearing and the comments here tonight as to whether or not you think the project should go forward with or without sidewalks. You may even say that based on the conversation here and future development, you want a sidewalk that you want to put in on the north side. tell state DOT that they got to add more money for the signalization so that on our dime in the future you want to connect and extend the sidewalk. That's all part of your uh deliberation, future deliberations when we before we get back to to the state. tonight is to gather their input and their right
064their thoughts and I think there's quite quite a few good thoughts here and that's and it what what's the time frame you know is this something you know because I'm I'm happy at the our next regular meeting having a discussion you know let the council digest what we heard tonight and come back on the 16th and make some decisions but yeah and I and I would I think that's a great Mr. chairman. And and I think also that that um for those that couldn't be here tonight, if they want to send comment to me or to John uh with respect to something they think of after the fact or another something that hasn't been discussed here tonight, they can certainly convey that um to us and I think we'll take that in consideration as well
065because certainly I'm sure there was pe people that wanted to be here couldn't be here tonight. Okay. And then no, we're not under the gun to answer your question. So Okay. Yeah, we could come back unless there's There's no there's no time slot on this. I mean, some of the projects in in other communities in this program, 7 8 years from the time they started to time they started construction. I mean, the sooner maybe there's something in between 10 days and seven years, but the quicker I can move to the next next phase. All right. because I I don't want to rush this because I think there's a lot that you guys were able to share with us tonight that, you know, I want to be thoughtful about this and not just, you know, I
066don't want to move fast just for the sake of getting it done fast. I think we need to take a little bit of time to digest what we heard and and provide some, you know, because there are some, you know, this is a step and I know the states just, you know, they cut a rectangle and said this area needs to be, you know, this is the area we need to address, but you know, we do as a town probably have an opportunity to do something more in the future. And I it seems like it would I mean I I get your point. You do not have to rush. It is primarily a pavement program, right? And a road program. The the state has introduced the sidewalk. Now, the the the rubber hits the road
067when when and if we ever get to the point where we say, "Thanks, but no thanks, no sidewalks." Right? Is that advisory or is it mandatory? Right? That's, you know, that's what we'll find out in this because I know the state, you know, comes to you and says, "Hey, we have an idea. What do you think?" And in reality, you know, it's it's not really advisory. It's, you know, it's one of those, but like, you know, could we say yes to the repaving part? No, we we've already said yes to Okay. So, that's is it safe to say that's going to happen regardless of our pavement or our sidewalk? 100% certainty that that that's going to happen. Okay. Okay. All right. Yes. Yeah. I just had three other questions and I can send these to
068Michael too so he can forward it. But just three other questions to think about now that we have entered into some discussion about uh doing a sidewalk on the north side of Bradley would be um a question on right away town owned property. Uh that would it be the same on the north side or could it be different without your checking? Something we didn't look into. Right. Exactly. Yeah. We have space beyond the curve. It's just a matter of whether whether we we have an obstacle that we have to go around or we have a, you know, sharp incline or a dip that we we'd have to build a retaining wall or do a fill it, right? Yeah. So, I mean, you're right. Yeah. In respect to is it doable? I mean, we can with
069with dollars you can do pretty much anything. Okay. Okay. So, that was I the three question. One is first of all is would it be all on property to which we have the right ofway? Uh how many more homes would it own? Would it add to the network of sidewalks? And the third thing and I realize this is not something you can do quickly is what would be the uh the monetary estimate on it. And uh well I mean that's the easiest question. I don't have it with me but I already have that number. I can't tell you it would take me longer to figure out how many households would be impacted and um you know that kind of stuff. Yeah. And also there would be an estimate for the extension from the you know
070that threepoint intersection with Bradley and camp uh uh to go further west uh to the Bristol line. Mhm. Correct. Okay. And my and I can send those my those questions to you. And I just one more item that you know I think as a neighborhood I think once we decide the council decides on discussing this and making some decisions that we will notify the neighborhood like we did for tonight's public information session. Or I would ask that we, you know, if it's not the next meeting, whatever meeting, regular meeting we decide to talk about this, that we do let the neighborhood know like we did for tonight. Yes. So I have a question. You said this is mainly a paving project. That intersection of camp and Bradley is horrendous. My husband swears there used to
071be an island in the middle of that intersection. I don't know. New to the area. My husband's been here his entire life. He swears there used to be an island in that intersection. If we are relying, my husband swears there was an island there. If we are reheing, is there an ability to put some kind of central structure to basically Oh, shoot. I really should stop it this time so I don't hit that giant chiller because somebody went into the metal retaining thing in front of the water plant a couple of weeks ago. So, just if we're repaving, is that something that could be thrown into the project. I guess I mean that's something we could look into. My island my personal experience seeing things that restrict somebody to do something is that I I
072design something to restrict you from making a maneuver. What I do is I make it when you do make that maneuver, it makes it more dangerous for you and for everybody else. I mean, the typical ones are no left turns into into driveways or whatever and you make a nice rounded thing so that somebody has difficulty getting in and all of a sudden, you know, you see them. I mean, the the one that I marvel at is the one on Route 10 over near Chick-fil-A. Um, it's clearly marked, but almost every time I go by there, there's at least one person making that illegal turn. I have reservations on doing that because because it creates a a different situation. It's usually something you could never think of what would happen. I literally have to drive
073into Bristol to come down camp to take a right into my driveway because I can't take a left or go straight through. I mean, it is unfortunate camp street and Bradley Street because of the highway ramp and because of the the nature of where people have to go from Bristol and beyond, they all funneled into that road. I mean, back when before the entrance ramp and exit ramps were there, um it would that area was probably a lot quieter. Um I'm I'm for now, we're we're running up against almost 7:00. What I would like to say is a couple things. Just thank you for being here and letting us know what you think. Obviously, this is a work in progress. We are going to do our best to keep everyone informed on our next decisions
074and when we're going to be discussing this. I wouldn't, you know, if there's enough questions, we certainly can have another, you know,formational session where we have some back and forth. So, that that is something that council can consider if we think it needs to be done. Um, but as we just discussed, you know, anytime this is going to be on the agenda, we will do our best to let the neighborhood know. Um, and you know, we will we'll go from there and and see where this takes us, but um, you know, at this point, we do have a lot of information to digest. Uh, we'll see how long it takes, but we will do our best to keep the neighborhood informed. And again, if you have any questions or comments that pop in your head
075on your way home tonight, feel free to email town manager uh through his office. uh if you want the council to know about it, they will for you know just let them know in the email you'd like the council to get this. It does get forwarded to the council on those occasions. Uh so we can go you know we could stay on on point and and you guys can share information if you want to. So thank you John. Um doesn't we may have you come back at another meeting so keep your schedule open. But um at this point we do have a lot going on in our regular meeting. I I understand most of you probably want to stay and see how local government runs, but if you do need to leave, please feel free
076to leave. There's going to be a lot of people outside waiting to come in, and we'll probably start the regular meeting. We'll give everyone two or three minutes, and we'll start the regular meeting. Thank you. [Music]