001[Music] All right. Good evening, everyone. uh call the um the the public hearing to order and we'll start all by rising for the pledge of allegiance. Please Tom, you want to kick it off since you're close to I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. All right. Next, I'll like to ask the town clerk to read the legal notice into record, please. Thank you. Notice is hereby given that the charter revision commission will hold a public hearing at 7 p.m. on Wednesday, May 21st, 2025 in the council chambers of the municipal center in Planeville to comment on the following. The completed draft report. The draft report is available on the town's website and copies
002at the Planeville Library and the town clerk's office. stated at Planeville, Connecticut this 15th day of May, 2025. Thank you, Cindy. Uh next, uh since this for Nutmeg TV, for people watching, we would like to introduce members of the committee by stating their names. Starting to my left, please. Michelle Shaput, Christian Shores, Dan Cecilski, John Gasprini, Dana R. Snell, Tom Fod. Thank you. Now, the charter vision, uh, we've been working collectively since February to prepare a draft report for tonight's public hearing regarding the town manager's res residency requirement. Uh so next so I'd like to have the discussion of um what has transpired and on the committee has decided that we would like to change some language and it relates to chapter 4 section one qualifications appointment and tenor as it currently reads and I'll
003read that part is that the town manager hereafter referred to as the manager shall be appointed by the town council solely on the basis of that person's executive ability and his knowledge of accepted practices and local government administration. The manager shall serve for an indefinite term and be subject to removal by the town council in the manner provided elsewhere in this charter for the removal of all officers appointed by the town council. The part that was is being changed is at the time of appointment the manager need not be a resident of the town or the state but during the tenor of office the manager shall reside in the town. The part that the committee has very very hard work and discussions over what to make of this is that we're going to try and
004change the language. Now remember this is only a suggestion. This is not something that's going to be written in concrete. This is suggestion that will go to the town council. Should the town council approve it, then it will definitely be put on the November ballot for voters of the town of Planeville to decide yay or nay. And the part that we would like to change the language states that the manager shall devote his her full time to the office of the manager and shall be responsibly available or reasonably available to perform the duties of the manager by remote means when necessary. if not available in person, including electronic and cellular communications, provided that within 90 days of appointment, the manager shall establish his or her residence within the state of Connecticut. And that's what we've
005all come up uh and decided on. Any discussion by panel members? Anything? Tom, did you have some? No. Mr. Chairman, I did have a comment. Yes. Um, in the process of preparing for the hearing tonight and in responding to the email that you had sent me in reviewing material, I thought that it would be a appropriate change, a slight change to the language that we have there to make it she'll establish his or her we have so establish his or her residence within the state of Connecticut that we make it his or her principal residence within the state of Connecticut. And the reason for that change is you can have multiple residences and this requires the principal residence is the place where you spend the majority of your time. So I wanted to make that
006change to avoid the problem that we had in the past and make it more global because of the state and that we I did want to recommend that to the commission. Thank you. Is this a opportunity for us to just share the with with like sort of how we came up with that? Is it okay to do that? Yes. Um, so we talked a long time uh in regards to um the importance of the manager living in the town of Plainville and thought about what that meant at the time that the charter was created. um and really wanted to be mindful that part of that was and it during a time when we didn't have the means or the ability to communicate and be available, you know, back when the charter was originally written. We
007also took into consideration that um being able to have competent uh good people, we needed to have the capacity to widen the net. Um and we also um also took into consideration that um real estate um and people's ability to move um to this community um may not be as flexible or feasible as it had been in the past. And so, um, we really felt like that we wanted to have an opportunity to share with the the, um, with the citizens of Plainville, um, why we felt like we needed to be able to, um, change the language, um, so that it wouldn't be as restrictive. Um, keeping in mind um that the um spirit of the uh um the of the having a manager live in town is something that we would be very happy
008um and encourage. But if we have the language that's so restrictive, it doesn't allow for us to take into consideration things that you wouldn't take into consideration. Um, I think the other thing is that um, those of us would love to be able to um, engage the community with if they had questions with to us um, in terms of when they make an informed decision at the ballot. Also, I think so. Thank you. Thank you, Dana. Tom, is there anything you like to add? Not at the moment. Okay, ladies, anything? No. Dan, you know, just just one comment. Um, the bottom line to this is is our ability to keep and in the future hire the best person for the job and that's what we're trying to do. So, if we have a restriction that
009the person has to live in town, that defeats the fact that uh we're looking for the best person. So all this is being said is we're looking to keep and maintain the best person and not have a restriction on it. So that's what this is is pretty much about. Thank you. Uh now we'll come to the public comment section of our hearing. So if you'd like to come up to speak uh we would like you to come to either podium and please state your name and address for the record. Anybody wish to come up to speak? Yes, Mr. Kislick. John Kislick, 65 Forestell Avenue. I think some of you might be surprised I'm here tonight because I never received Can you speak a little bit louder in there? Thank you, John. Might be surprised that
010I'm here tonight. I never received confirmation from the town website. It's only through divine intervention that I am here tonight to speak against your proposal. Now, thing is with the town manager, uh, when he doesn't live in Planeville, he's not part of the community. He's not going through what we go through. You remember back when we had the storm in October and Robert Lee was part of the the emergency stuff and everything. If you get somebody way out of town somewhere, they're not going to be available to her help the town and work together with all our departments. Any other thing, you know, town manager salary and benefit package is over $200,000 a year and he does not contribute any tax dollars to the town. And I I think that's wrong. That's another big thing.
011He's not part of the town. He's not part of the community living here day by day, you know, going through everything that the regular taxpayers go through. This this was put into our charter in 1959 by our forefathers who looked into all these things. We we had first selectman that when an emergency happened even like you take Joe Edund first selectman one of the last ones I mean he'd jump in his truck or his tractor and do things and help the town. We we're not going to have that with somebody out of town. It's just it to me it's just completely wrong. And I I disagree with with this this whole change that you're that you have proposed here. There's uh how do I put it? If the town council had done their job, the
012town manager signed a contract June 15, 2022 agreeing to move here if that question failed. Now, you're talking almost three years. The council did nothing but dragged us on. We had 1,838 people, a majority. I guess it was 60s something percent somewhere around there. It said the town manager has to live in Planeville. Now to me with you doing this again in such a short time, you're you know you're just ignoring the voted people of the majority. You're just, you know, kicking them in the teeth. You what you voted and what you wanted as a majority. You're ignoring the people. It's wrong. This shouldn't even be a question anymore. The way I feel about it, and it's nothing personally against the town manager, if the council had done their job, he could have been removed
013for cause because in his contract, it says anything that he does not follow in that agreement. And that would be his signed contract and the charter. He could have been removed. It wouldn't cost us any money because it's for cause. So, I I just can't see why this committee even wants to do this. I I know your excuses. Well, everything everything is uh electronic now and all this and and the police chief and fire chief and fire marshall have absolutely nothing to do with an important job like a town manager who's setting our budget telling us how much money we're going to pay for taxes. It's it's wrong. But that's what I have to say about that. But one other thing on on your um section one where the things you have crossed off, you
014know, one of one of the things says at the time of appointment, the manager need not be a resident of the town or the state. I think you should leave in if you're going to put this to the people, I think you should leave in at the time of appointment. the manager need not be a resident of the state because what you're saying in your other part says he has to move into Connecticut. So that's only a technicality. But I wish this wasn't even I just wanted to point that out how I feel. But I just wish this cons this committee would just just say no. Just say no. We got to keep tradition up. The town needs a manager who is part of our community. He's out there every day with us. He's out
015his wife is in the in the park painting tables and stuff and he's he's involved in everything. He's picking up papers on the street walking through town during his daily walk. That's what we need in this town. Thank you for your time. Thank you, John. Anyone else wish to speak? Anyone else wish to speak? Hearing none, then I'll ask for the motion to close the public hearing. Sorry, Mr. Chair. I did have a comment. Yes. Yes, attorney. I just wanted to say that uh I disagree that um it would have been a simple matter to terminate the contract for cause. I think that um there were issues. There would have potentially would have had to be an arbitration. I think that would have been a very unfavorable forum for us to be in. I think
016that there is a reasonable constitutional issue with regard to the right to travel that has been litigated in the past, but the circumstances today have changed and that I my opinion was that there'd be enough of an issue there to get into an arbitration which has very limited review and many times is decided what the arbitrator thinks is fair. that um the risk would be substantial there of not being successful. There would be I thought an expense in as far as representation and legal fees. My experience further is that when it comes to an arbitration which is what we would be required to do under the contract that arbitrators are very expensive. They usually charge $500 to $1,000 an hour and they take their time. So just the arbitration cost and legal fees and the
017the the doubt of it made going for cause difficult. Plus the fact that in my opinion during the process if the manager theoretically were to get an apartment and establish a residence here that would mute the whole process still be during his tenure. It would have been a exercise in futility potentially and quite expensive. So, as I said in the memo that I gave you, the easiest way would have been a no cause termination, which would have cost six months of salary. And that would have been the easiest way. And um going forward, the problems that I highlight in my memo that I gave you would still exist going forward in my opinion. So, I just wanted to be clear on that with regard to the cause termination. Thank you, Attorney Morris. Any other comment
018before we close public hearing sector? Ladies, anything? I I would just say that um we really do appreciate the feedback um that we get from you and that we definitely hear you and we'll listen to that as well. Um, and this isn't this hasn't been um I think what I what I would say is that our approach isn't to ignore or um de diminish these the decision or the voters made, but that we did feel that we did not do a good enough job the last time of really making a good case as to why we needed to make the shift. Um, and I think we also did an tremendous amount of research um in terms of trying to come up with a reasonable um um adjustment that is in the best interest of all
019the uh constituents in Planeville. Um and again we really would um embrace an opportunity to have uh more people from the town come and ask us about uh how this decision works and doesn't work because I think um in absence of all the information um we're not always equipped to make the best decision that's in the best interest of our community. Yes. Thank you. Comment. Yes, Dan. Uh, one further comment and that is um the only people that I know that are required to live within a town or in a municipality are those elected officials. Uh, people that are elected um need to live in town. And um I can't think of anybody that's required to live in town that's not elected official. Our chief of police or fire department and any members of of
020uh the town staff can live in town or can live outside the town. There's no requirement. The only requirement here is the town manager. And I yet to see the reasoning that we have to have him him in town him or her in town. So, you know, if you live if you work at Etna, they don't require you to live at Hartford uh anywhere else. Any other companies don't require you to live there. You live where you like and it your judgment is based upon your performance and not where you live. So, please give consideration to that. Thank you. Thank you, Dan. Are we all set? Anybody else? Okay. All right. Then I'll ask for a motion to close the public hearing. So move and a second. Thank you. Uh uh what did I say?
021Forgot. And all in favor? Opposed? All right. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. Okay. We're going to call order our special meeting for May 21st uh at 7:30. And first order of business is the approval of minutes of the May 7th regular meeting. Motion to approve the minutes from the May 7th meeting. Second. All in favor? I opposed. Okay. Uh discussion for the public hearing comments if any. Anybody would like to discuss Um well I guess I'll look at you. I just Mr. Chairman if I could just make a comment for uh as I had said at the beginning. Um I think I would recommend that the suggested language that we have here that we just add principal residents within the state of Connecticut. I did consider the comments the public comments with regard
022to specifically saying they don't have to reside in the state. I don't think that's necessary. at this time. I think back when they drafted this, they might have been more concerned with uh that since they had a very specific requirement to live in town, but I don't believe that that's necessary. I think the language is sufficient that we've drafted. Even though I do appreciate the comment, it is a careful comment, but I would say to put the principle uh to make that the final if you would to consider uh asking for a motion on that, I I would recommend that. Thank you. Do we have a motion for that change? Oh, I I make to make a change for principal. Okay. Second. Second. Second. All in favor? I oppose. Okay. You got it. Principal with
023the state. I did. Principal res. I just I just had a question. Um when we landed on that they that they should live in the state of Connecticut. And I didn't have a problem with that. I just didn't remember when we when we said that. Last meeting. Last meeting. Check the check the minutes. Yep. Yeah. You weren't I was here for the end of the day. I was on Zoom. You were Oh, that's what it was. The Zoom meeting. It was when I was Yeah, you were. That can't be. So, it's hard to believe. So, yeah. So the discussion was if we have if we happen to have an out ofstate applicant say yeah that we wanted to make sure it was clear that they could not remain out of state. Okay. Within a certain
024time 90 days we made it very clear. Yeah. We tal discussed 90 days like what the we said 30 days we had a discussion about the number of days what we thought was appropriate. I was comfortable with something that was too short because You got to get through the process. 6 months. Yeah. 30 was too long. 6 months was too long. 90 it is. Okay. And I think that's also good cuz when you make an application, you know that if you agree to come that you would have to be within the state and since we're not Texas. All right. All right. Any other discussion on the uh public hearing or any other comments that anybody wishes to make? And I think the comment from the public was extremely valid. Um and um you know definitely
025um something um I just I just don't want to minimize that that that people come and share their opinions and that their opinions are valuable and considered and where you're you know it it comes down to luckily we're in a democracy where the people are going to make this decision. It's not something that we say, "Okay, here's the change. It's going in. Case is closed." This is only a suggestion. We don't even know if it's going to make it to November because the town council still has to approve the change. So, that being said, you know, I also feel like we took some of the points into consideration throughout the whole process as well. So, it wasn't like he brought things up that we hadn't already discussed and just talked about and agreed upon, right?
026Yeah. And when when we had a joint meeting too with the town council, I mean, I I was right there and I let uh councilwoman who actually sits in this seat know that when we did this vote, you know, a couple years ago, I went in initially thinking that I was going to vote, well, yeah, why why would we not want this individual to live in our town? And then when I kind of thought about it a little bit more and did some research and understood the hiring process and the first pool of applicants that we got, you know, we really want the best person, not necessarily someone that, you know, lives within nine square miles. It's a very unique set of skills to be able to do this job. Um, so I I feel
027that we didn't do a great job as a town educating the public the last time because I I certainly wasn't educated. I was not educated. This this process really helped me um understand a lot of the intricacies and the complexities of you know really restricting it to nine square miles. So I just wanted to let you know too that initially I was I was on the same page but my opinion evolved and I think it needs to and one thing I will say uh I don't know if it's appropriate to address Mr. One thing I will say, I don't know if it's appropriate to address Mr. Kizlick directly, but I am sensitive to the comment about it being a a kick in the teeth. As you said, we did discuss obviously the fact that it
028wasn't all that long ago that that we were this topic, not this specific language of course, but that that's okay. Not and we were sensitive to the fact that this is coming up again so quickly. Um and you know it did impact us and and how we talked about things and how we decided to move forward with it. We are we are aware of the fact that it may appear that way to to to some of the residents and you know we are hoping there will be an opportunity to to talk more with people whether it's the the town council if they proceed with it or whatever it happens to be to to try to explain why we ended up back here. Um but it is not meant in any way to dismiss how the
029how the public voted the last time. Um, and quite honestly, um, I think I could speak for everyone and say if it does make it if if the language as we're suggesting it does make it to a referendum and that the public in general votes against it, then absolutely 100% that, you know, as the resident of this town, I will support that completely because that is ultimately um the way it should be. But I I you know it's um I don't envision I you know I I don't envision there was no point of this where it was like well if we just keep pestering them eventually they'll give up. That's not sort of that that I know it can perhaps seem that way in some ways and I I don't want it to because we
030really did consider uh the optics of it. Um, but really feel like knowing the difficulty the that uh the town had in finding a qualified manager last time around and knowing that yeah, they had to sort of uh you know make this uh you know um suggestion that you know they would they would try to put it to the town in order to hopefully get that removed. Broadened our pool of applicants to the point where we could not only find a qualified applicant, but actually have qualified applicants to rank and then choose the best from. And so that's where we were with it. It really is not intended to be disrespectful to anybody. Um, and uh 100% apologize if that's the way it comes across, but it is not meant to. You know, I also
031think that like in 19 in 1959, like people, you know, kids came in and you grew up in the family and you stayed in the community and a lot of our talent doesn't live in town, right? We have classmates that live even in Farmington or, you know, West Hartford. Um, and so I think, um, there's just an evolution of how community is community. Um, and we just had to accept that because I too was, you know, last time around, absolutely not move move into town. I pay taxes. Be be out here when there's a flood. Like I was that chick, you know what I mean? And so I w you know but but when we think about really why we needed people to do that how people are you know just just the change in
032times um we want to still be able to have the best opportunity and I don't think the nuance or the passion should change that we want people to want to be in our community and we should be able to still say that but I think that in terms of having a law um changes our capacity to have what's best for us um you know for the town and if people still lived here you know generations after generations um I think it would be different um I just I just want to sh just share that as well. I think we did a really good job as a team, as a committee, of really kind of teasing out the pros and cons. And so I just want to say for the record that I appreciate being a
033part of this team and being able to articulate and work together to come up with something that I think is reasonably fair um and in the best interest of all the constituents of the town of Plainville. Thank you, Dan. And I'll I'll just add that This is probably one of the most difficult things to decide on because of the past as as my colleagues have said. But the other thing too is being I'll call myself a veteran. This is my third time around on charter revision. And the thing of it is, you know, um, and some of us I I've worked with before, but the thing of it is is that I also like to thank our town attorney because the language not not none of us are lawyers and we don't know the technicalities
034of things of how to word certain things to make it the right way. So, my thank you goes out to Attorney Morris, our town attorney, um, for helping us with the wording, the situation where you can and can't do because I've definitely been in situations where we had no attorney and everything was tabled from soup to nuts and we can never get an answer and we had a tough time meeting deadlines because we didn't know if we were right or wrong and we needed the right answer. So to the town attorney, we thank you very much for your help. Mr. Chairman, I would say that um one of the things that I really appreciated was the amount of involvement that all the members had when we were doing the language. You know, we had so
035many different thoughts and ideas and angles of how this would all work. And then when we actually had emails, when I had everybody individually email me so we wouldn't have an illegal meeting, but I wanted to get the feedback. You know, I got a lot of suggestions. I didn't we didn't incorporate all of them, but you know, it it makes you think uh about all the different things and it seems like it's pretty straightforward, but it's really, you know, it gets really involved when you want to present something that everybody can agree on that's going to work and be in the best interest. So, I I really did appreciate the whole process, you know, even though at times like anything else, if I'm sitting there, I keep getting emails about this, I'm thinking, "Okay, we
036got enough emails now. Let's stop." But, but I did appreciate it and I think we come up with a good product. And I also wanted to say that um you know it's hard for me to say as a lawyer that I think that it would have been hard to enforce that provision cuz what I do as a lawyer is that's what I do. Okay. But I gave you what my honest opinion was. I think it would have been really hard to enforce that provision. I I don't know that we would have won for cause and even if we did it would have been a long and expensive process. So, I didn't mean to maybe be a little more aggressive about that, but I wanted you to understand that. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else?
037And then I just wanted to say too, we did look at the entire charter. We didn't just look at this one thing. We went through the entire charter. We talked about a lot of different areas of the charter. Um, ultimately this was the only recommendation that we're going to be passing forward to the town council. But I just wanted to be on the record too that we did go through the entire thing. Anything else? Anybody else? Yeah, just just one more thing. Um, I'd like to thank John for his leadership here and doing what what he has done. Um, you know, he's a veteran here. He stepped up and I think uh accolades to John for for uh for the outcome that we've had. So, thanks for what you've done. Thank you. I was going
038to say even though the things like not on the record, right? The ethics committee, the library, right? You're right. Just from what you guys did, I told you you guys inspired us. So, yeah, we're getting involved now. Well, one one last thing, you know, and it's kind of it's tough because when you have uh what I call newbies, we had three newbies and four veterans. And so we had apples and oranges, but it's nice to get some fresh ideas as well and say, "Hey, we all can make mistakes. We could all overlook something." And that's why it was nice to have the newbies review the whole charter to say, "Well, hey, what about this or I don't understand this." So, it was good to get that vital experience. So, so if next time you decide
039to do something like this, you'll know what to expect in the long run. And I truly enjoy working with everybody. It was fun. Um, I hope things work out in the best interest for everybody. See us next week. Yeah, I'll think about it. All right. All right. Uh, anything else before we ask for a German? We need to make a motion with the amended language to submit the draft report to. Okay. Uh, motion to make the draft report submitted for the town clerk. For the town council. To the town clerk. first, then she'll submit it to town council. I have a motion. Motion. Okay. Second. Second. All in favor? I oppose. And then that is what we will send. We'll meet next week and then we'll send it to Do we have to? No, we're
040good. Motion to adjurnn. So move second. All in favor? Adios. [Music]