CCPS Special Called School Board Work Session May 6th, 2025

001We will call the May 6 Carolina County Board of Super Carolina County School Board meeting to order. Board members present, Mrs. Sears representing the Western Caroline District. Dr. Hubbert representing the Bowling Green District, Dr. Rollins Fails representing the Reed Church District. Mr. Fortune representing the Madapan district and I'm Calvin Taylor. I represent the Port Royal district. Mr. um Sean Kelly is not with us tonight. He uh is involved with his students and his son. I think they have a baseball game between Caroline and Spots I think. Okay. So at any rate, but we do have a quorum. So u having said that we will move ahead. Before we start our meeting, I would like to um take a minute to talk about um a situation that has come to our attention. And I will start

002by just saying that I would like to take this opportunity to address what seems to be a misunderstanding regarding the possible selling of the baseball stadium. There is a belief that the school board is planning to sell the baseball stadium in order to address future needs. This has never been the case and continues not to be the case until this day. uh to quote from the document of May 5th, 2025 entitled, "Dear Caroline Families," which was reviewed by each board member prior to being sent out, there is no viable shortterm or long-term fertility option that has been solidified. no viable option outlining the sale of any CCPS properties or any current plan to renovate, sell or gift the baseball stadium. The entire board has always and will always be a part of any plans to

003address space needs as well as any decisions involving school issues or concerns. The purpose of this meeting is to work with staff to address the overcrowded classroom. Two of three elementary schools are presently at capacity and we will also be addressing programmatic growth. That being said, we must continue to work towards plans to address this issue. We always practice full transparency and clarity as board members. We may not always agree or a given on a given issue, but we will in accordance with our our agreed upon governance norms hear each other's opinions, consider options as a group, but unanimously act as one board. Hopefully, the citizens of Caroline County realize that this board is a group of elected officials who practice integrity. Even though many issues involve varied opinions, there is never an attempt to

004mislead or to not represent Caroline County citizens in a fair and honest manner. Thank you. I will now ask the superintendent to deal with the updated facility information. Okay. M. Okay. All right. I will ask for a motion to u accept the agenda as presented. So moved. Second. Second. All right. It has been moved and properly second that we accept the agenda as presented. Uh Lisa, would you call for the vote? Mrs. Sears, I. Mr. Fortune, I. Dr. Hubbert, I. Dr. Rollins spells I. Mr. Taylor, I. And that motion carries. The agenda is adopted as presented. Now we will hear from Dr. Cal. Thank you so much, Chair Taylor. We have an extensive agenda for our work session, and I would invite you to have your red folders that have all the accompanying documents that

005are affiliated with the agenda items that are loaded into board docs for access for our constituent base. Additionally, we also have all of our documents with the exception of one loaded so that you can pull that up. And I do want to clarify one of the documents we received at 4:00 this afternoon. And so um we do have it pulled up on the screen, but it is not loaded on board docs, but we will certainly do that after our meeting um tomorrow um during the opening of business. So our first item that we wanted to have discussion in relation to and provide updates is regarding the recent meeting with Lady Smith Village Homeowners Association and a number of occurrences or occasions we have talked about short-term options that may impact um that property and we

006wanted to ensure that we are working in partnership with the HOA and that we had a full body understanding ing of what our parameters are in relation to a learning cottages aka trailers and or looking at a expans and expansion of that facility. And so we've done our due diligence with the HOA. Um and so we want to share with you a couple of items that arose um during that time period. So on April 17th we gathered virtually. they had their board members myself, Miss Stevens, Mr. Caldwell and um we talked about the growth um that we have been experiencing in the capacity issue which is very well known by the the community because obviously the Lady Smith Village community has the school as the center or the hub of many activities. And so, um,

007they were grateful that we were coming to the table to not only learn more, but to also really reiterate our commitment to, um, architectural aesthetics or architectural sensitivity. And that was a really large aspect of our talking points that we would want to be aware of what their architectural review board um, application entails and also be cognizant of location of potential trailers. should that be an option that we choose. And so, um, we we learned during that time a couple of items, but at 4:00 today, we also received a document from their attorney that outlined some greater specificity. And so, um, I wanted to share that at the end of that meeting, our understanding of our time together was that we indeed have the opportunity to place learning cottages on the property. We also have

008the ability to expand the school should that be something that we wanted to entertain. And we also are able to install our solar panels that are part of the energy performance contract through our work with Mccclure company and we don't necessarily need HOA approval to do that. I will follow up on that component here momentarily. So, we requested at the end of that meeting that we receive a letter from their legal council verifying no prohibitions and that is what we received at four o'clock today. And we'll talk about that document momentarily and I believe Miss Stevens will have that up here behind us. Oh, no, she doesn't have it. Okay, thank you. That's the one that's not with us today. Um but um also take note that during that meeting we thought it was really

009important for the HOA to identify a liaison. Um and so Stephen Levescu is our liaison. And so um he has been invited. Um you'll hear us talking about a visit we have coming up on May 12th to the Weisa. He has been invited or will be invited. I'll get a wink wink nod from Mrs. Stevens. He has been invited indeed. um so that he can also see what a learning cottage community looks like and bring that information back to the HOA. So as we move forward, if that option is selected, they have boots on the ground that has with their own eyes been able to see what that could potentially look like. Um we also um the HOA requested as I previously stated that the architect engineering plan with whatever firm we use and currently

010we're we're partnered with RRMM and Mr. Propes is here to represent the A&E firm this evening that we really tend to that architectural sensitivity and um we indeed said that we would provide any type of plan that was developed to them in advance and have discussion and dialogue with them to ensure that we're doing our due diligence. Um, and it was comforting to hear that, um, one of our board of supervisors mentioned driving by Louisa County recently and that he was pleasantly pleased with a learning cottage community that had recently been erected um, in their locality. And ironically enough, RRMM was responsible for the middle school installation that they have right now. So, it'll be nice to hopefully have someone from the local government join us in that tour, but also to know that just

011in driving by people have spoken positively about that. Hopefully, the HOA will feel comfortable if we move forward in that direction. Um, also um we provided them upon their request a copy of at that time our current short and long-term plans that we had brought forward at the joint meeting. We all know that three out of the four of those plans would be considered nonviable at this time based on the fact that they were associated with a property that was for sale that's currently under a purchase sale agreement and in the due diligence period. And so we are moving away from that option at this time. That left the fourth option on the table. And we provided that with um with notes to them so they have that at their disposal. We also um the

012HOA provided the architectural form and residential requirements for residential um for awareness and so um we have included those documents and I'm going to turn the mic over to Mrs. Stevens because she has been most intimately involved with these items since 4:00 this afternoon. So, she um might be um better equipped since I was in an alternate meeting to explain two things that you board members actually have in hard copy, but one of them will not be visible since we had didn't have a chance to scan it prior to the meeting. And that is the Lady Smith um application for HOA and their solar collection device policy for the community. And then of course we do have the hot off the press um document from legal which is actually a bit more um complex or

013comprehensive than we anticipated um based on the first cursory read that we've done since four. So I'll turn it over to Mrs. Stevens to elaborate. Thank you. Your first document that you have is a exterior alter alteration application. If a homeowner wanted to complete some items to the exterior of their property, they would need to complete this application. However, being the school in there, we are not required to complete the application, but we did tell them for their board minutes um that we would complete a letter that would have these items listed on it. It's basically demographic information and the changes that we would be doing. Um so once we get to that type of time that we will have those plans etc we will submit the letter to them for their documentation. Also is

014the article 10 which is the solar collection devices. They've just provided that to us for what is required on their um residential properties. The letter that just came in at four o'clock, a little after four o'clock from their attorney was giving us information about be being able to put learning cottages on the property and reviewing the profers. There is a statement in here that in reviewing the Lady Smith profers, there does not appear to be any concerns at all. Um, however, South River Profers does have a profer stating no manufactured homes as defined by section 36-85.3 of the code of Virginia shall be permitted. Um, with that, they do not believe a learning cottage facility meets the guidelines or that section code of a man manufactured home definition. However, they stated that if there is

015a possible risk that a um member of their community challenged it that they would encourage possibly a proper condition amendment um to express expressively allow learning cottages to be installed on the school parcel. Um they also mentioned in the letter about the solar that there with school of uh with the code of Virginia as well as the proper condition um that our the proper conditions noted that there the solar panels can be installed to the school roof um with no concerns. We did offer to them also in our meeting that we would provide them an one sheet from Mccclure just sharing with the community the savings expected to be gained from that um roof specifically in that community as well as showing proto prototypes kind of pictures of them from that roof. As a side

016note, we will say that on our trip to Stafford, Mr. Taylor and Mr. Codwell and I um went past the Stafford array that is on one of their schools. It is the largest array in the east coast, they said. And with that, you could not see them. We could not see them from the road and getting up against the buildings. So that was quite interesting for us to see that little extra. So that's the information that we have from the HOA. Before we take any questions on this topic, I do just want to uh re-emphasize a point that Mrs. Stevens mentioned briefly, and that is to mitigate any potential risk associated with the Virginia code um discussing manufactured homes. They made it clear in the letter that they don't believe learning cottages or trailers fall

017under that terminology, but they said in order to to minimize the risk of a neighbor or a community member questioning that that um the paragraph on the second page that states, "With this in mind, if the school board wanted to minimize any possible risk of challenge to the installation of learning cod cottages, the school board could ask any member of the Caroline County Board of Supervisors to support a proper condition amendment to expressly allow learning cottages to be installed on the school parcel. If such an amendment had the support of the supervisors, it could be approved at little expense to the school system. So that would be something that um they they said would prevent any potential um prohibition to a learning cottage, but they do believe that trailers do not fall into the manufactured

018home. So when we have a chance to be um hip-to-hip with the board of supervisors in a joint meeting or I actually requested this morning um from Mr. Collie the county administrator to have an administrative meeting on a series of topics. I could certainly have conversation with him about that to see if that is something we decide tonight we want to pursue how we would go about doing that with our supervisor partners. And I think that draws to a close that topic in terms of conveying information to you. Are there any questions or any discussion? This is more of the informative period of updates if I if I may. The Ree Bummer PC, this is legal counsel for the homeowners association. Yes, sir. So, has our council uh done a review? I'm concerned about the

019the question mark as to whether or not the trailer or the learning cottages falls under the underneath the definitions. So all legal counsel is in agreeance. No sir, we received this at 4:00 this afternoon. So obviously tomorrow morning, one of the first actions we'll take is to make sure it's on board docs, but also to make sure that we submit this to um Haney Fuana Chip. Precisely. So my I guess my concern is if there is a difference in opinions uh will that what will that do to the timeline uh of installing these types of things or cottages you sure because we haven't made a decision to move forward with that um that timeline is a tad bit arbitrary at this point in time um we believe at Lewis and Clark we may have some

020internal options options that would allow us to push learning cottages to 2627 and would afford us the grace period necessary to vet all of the things you've just outlined and to work with the board of supervisors should that need to be undertaken. Um, so I think we will have ample opportunity to ensure that the legal council teams are seeing things from the same sheet of music. With regards to solar, um, at our last briefing, I do recall it being briefed to us that those were estimates and not actual numbers of in savings that we would see because of all of the moving parts that were still uh I guess in flux. So when we go back with a anything to the homeowners association uh we need to make sure that you know we're utilizing that

021language so we're not uh called out for saying. Absolutely. I think what was noted and I certainly will defer to Mrs. Stevens who has an amazing memory um but when Mccclure was here presenting at the last meeting and there were a series of questions from the board which were powerful in clarifying that um the process of working alongside the electrical company was um required a much greater amount of time than originally anticipated and yielded some different outcomes than um predicted based on the data. and there's about an $85,000 savings difference over the 20-year lifespan of the energy performance contract. Um, and so we would certainly make sure that whatever we are sharing with the HOA is reflective of whatever that final component um looks like in terms of the fiscal aspect. Great. Last thing, if

022I may, I I really think it's it's a great idea to have uh the less on from lady the HOA from Lady Smith uh keeping them informed as to what's going on. Um I'm hoping that although we don't have a HOA around really specifically around Bowling Green that there's a way in which we can kind of include some of uh you know the families in those areas uh as well so they are equally as informed as we're trying to ensure everyone remains. We have met specifically with every elementary school's PTA and invited them to engage throughout the process and we will continue to do so most certainly. Thank you for the suggestion. Any other board members have questions? Mr. Chairman, I have a comment. Um, as we go through this process and I do agree

023with legal counsel looking at communication from legal counsel. Um whether we choose to move forward with this option right now or not, I think it may still be wise to amend the language should 10, 15, 20 years from now this come back up and it would cover schools and learning cottages once and for all while it's a hot topic. Noted. We will certainly u meet with the county administrator and discuss that um in relation to a a current choice or a future option. Mr. Chair, if I may, Dr. Cal, is it fair to say that the trailer option wouldn't be an option for the upcoming school year based on um the timeline that we're looking at? No, I don't believe that that is a fair statement. If we found that a trailer option is essential

024to fully operationalizing our classrooms and programs for um the 2526 school year, we are currently working with vendors who I believe could help us do do the lift on that. Okay. So, so it it is possible uh given given the current state of where we are u if you will that trailers could actually be um installed at Lewis and Clark for the upcoming school year. We believe that it is feasible. However, with that being said, there are a number of steps that are required that we would need to work with the county in terms of permitting and making sure that all of the proper procedures are in place. Okay. Do we have a idea of as to when that process needs to begin in order to make that happen? We do not have a timeline

025as of right now because of course this is all transpiring very quickly and so you you can see we have a lot of updates for you which have required extensive amount of hours and manpower and so we're working as expeditiously as we can. We also are reliant upon the availability of vendors to provide information and you'll hear from Mr. Caldwell, who over the last 48 hours has been um associated with a number of companies that are helping us vet a number of options such as um not only um traditional trailers, but also um another type of of learning cottage. You'll hear about that. And then also we have a vendor or vendors that we have been working with that are talking about installation of glass dividers um for walls to partition off um some temporary

026spaces at Bowling Green specifically. And then of course we've been working with RRMM who has been turning around options for us on a dime as we make requests and um making sure that they're providing with us with robust comprehensive plans. So, um, we do believe it's feasible, but we don't have a direct timeline as of yet because we we have been relying upon our ability to meet with the vendors. Mr. Chairman, I have one more question just for clarity. Um, Lewis and Clark and Lady Smith Village is the only option that we're looking at that is impacted by an HOA. Correct. Lewis and Clark is the only school that has the association um aligned with it in this manner. Thank you. Other questions? The only other question that uh that I would have is is

027there a a point in time when we need to say we're going to do A or B or C given the fact that we know permitting is an issue and certainly that uh we have to work with our board of supervisors with that. But I'm I'm trying to determine when we would need to make a a a decision. um that we would still be eligible to do it uh by the time school opens. Fair question. I think uh the purpose of a work session is to help us narrow down our options and ultimately land on next steps and I would hope at the end of this evening we would have a clear path that we may revisit at our next regularly scheduled meeting. um our workshop for May 12th um that occurs before our regularly

028scheduled meeting at 5:30. It's certainly open to the public. It's at this um CMS MPR7 classroom. We have facilities as a topic and so anything that isn't thoroughly discussed andor finalized as appropriate this evening could certainly carry over to Monday's meeting. Um, but we do need to make a decision in relation to 2526. That's the most pressing component and it's most pressing at Bowling Green and then Lewis and Clark at the secondary at the elementary level but secondarily to Bowling Green. Um, and so that needs to be decided sooner rather than later. And then you'll see on the agenda tonight, we need to outline shortterm, which is to include years 0 to three, but this would be one through three since 00 would be year 25 26 and also long-term plans. And I think the

029board had indicated that knowing what a long-term plan looks like and a commitment of funding for that long term will help us somewhat backwards plan into the appropriate short-term plan for years one through three. Can I ask a process question? Would the decision has not been made to go to um learning cottages? We as a board need to use this the same language the learning cottages. Um would that have to go through the uh planning um commission to secure permitting? So okay. So understanding what their timeline is is also equally as important. Correct. Okay. Thank you. Other questions? Okay. Okay. And I I will ask Mrs. Stevens if you will capture some of our action items thus far. I think it would be nice to have a comprehensive list so as we're workshopping items, we

030know at the end of the evening what we can um fully commit to um in terms of followup. And so right now from um item number one on the agenda I have um post the um document from and it may be protected under attorney client privilege. So we'll have to discuss that with our attorney but if it is not we'll post that to board docs. We will also submit the letter from Reese Broom to our attorney. And what I'm hearing without specifically saying it's an action item is that our board would like for us to investigate the planning commission's meetings, which I believe they meet on maybe the third Thursday of the month if I'm not mistaken, but we'll certainly look at that timeline and determine um how we would um make a a submission

031um should we choose to go with learning cottages for 2526. Did I miss any action item from this topic? No, you didn't. I This just a personal question. So, the planning commission will make a recommendation to the board of supervisors and then the board of supervisors will ultimately say yay or nay. Correct. I could be speaking out of turn. However, I believe we are not required to go with this. This is not a special use to our property or anything like that. So, we have to go through the permitting process through the planning department. I do not believe that this needs to go before the commission. I will clarify that and thank you for that. That is a distinct difference. So, we we will certainly make sure on Monday when we come back to workshop

032that we have those spec um specific answers for you in relation to the permitting. Mr. Caldwell does permitting work rather often and so he is very skilled in that process. Mr. Caldwell, is there anything else that you would like to add in relation to that? thing that I'm looking into is depending on what style of learning cottage we go with, whether I need to get a soil test done for compaction on that as well. Um, so I've already reached out to vendors on in that line to try to get a vendor on in line to get that done as well. So, and we'll talk a little bit more about that when we get to um the topic of trailers specifically. Okay. trailers/arning cottages. They are synonymous, but my preference is learning cottages, but I want

033to make sure the community knows what we're talking about when we say learning cottages because it's kind of a posh term, right? Softens the softens the um impact. All right, moving out of item number 1A and into 1B and we are going to be talking about Stafford trailer visit. Um this occurred on April 30th. It was a trip um that was completed by Mr. Caldwell, Mrs. Stevens, and Chair Taylor up to Stafford County Public Schools. We had been notified that they are in the process of planning to remove a series of their learning cottages because they of course have been um building a number of new schools and will no longer need those trailers and so they are hoping to sell them. So we of course our interest was very um peaked by the possibility

034of um looking at the condition of the trailers as well as understanding what the fiscal component um associated with that would be. So I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to Mrs. Stevens who was legitimately boots on the ground and is best equipped to talk about the information that they garnered while they were alongside our neighbors to the north. Thank you. Miss Stevens has on the screen multiple um pods of these um units that they have available. We do not have a sales price established at this time. They are working with their procurement office to establish that. They would not be available for purchase until for the use of the 2627 school year. The trailer specifications were required to be on all concrete footers, square footers. There are no restrooms or plumbing in

035these particular units. There's a hallway down the middle. Trailers are to be sold on equal number increments and they will also sell the ramps with them. The condition is used as well as they were in good shape. The HVAC systems and the roofs are being maintained. I did speak to Mr. Leon Hughes today in Caroline in the planning department. Um he said that we would most likely have to be on footers here in Caroline, but to work with the building department to confirm the specifications of those plans. Considerations that we would need if purchasing these items from Stafford of course would be the transport and the relocation of those um the footer expense and the setup. um the disposal once we're done with them, soil testing to verify any compaction and then of course safety

036measures, cameras, badge entry, fencing, the fire alarms and the strobes are currently in these units already. They are also already hooked to the um PA systems in the school in with the schools. So they are able to have those um the staff that were residing in these communities um did not want us looking at them. They they were very protective of them and they wanted to um want them to remain. They really enjoy being in them um and just said why are you guys here? So, we explained to them that we are moving in this direction potentially and um they said as long as you're not taking our particular one, it was one that they're not selling. They were good with it. So, um the staff was very pleased with them. They are two units

037make two classrooms with that large hallway down the center of them. So, any questions on our trip to Stafford and their current trailers? it. Um, yep. There was a IT closet. Uh, it depended on the type of, um, community building that they had. Um, the IT closet was in there as a closet or a box. So, there was already structured wire in there at the time. I would just like to point out uh, well, one thing first. When we had our work session with the board of supervisors, I distinctly said that I did not want to see us go to the use of colleges or trailers. And um and I'm not saying that I that that's something I would would like to do now. But since that time, I have learned that the options dealing

038with what we have to deal with in our particular situation may make that a very viable option. So whereas I don't want to seem like I went back on my word uh but then in in in essence I did uh but at the time I just was not aware of the time uh constraints that we are are working under and maybe I should have been but uh at any rate um the colleges that we looked at as been said look very nice. Uh, and I'm not saying that this something I would want us to do on a permanent basis, but certainly as a short gap between the time that we can get new construction completed. um it might be uh an avenue that we have to consider or an avenue that we have to to

039do. I guess the other thing is um I did notice they seem to be very durable. Uh the ones we looked at I believe were about 10 years old and they really look nice. They uh had been well taken care of. A lot of times when you get into cottages, they aren't very durable and so after a while they don't look so well. But um that was not the case with these. Again, not saying that it's something I would particularly want over the long term, but if we have to do it during the short term, it may be one of our only options. Thank you. I do think because there is so much dialogue associated with learning cottages, I'm appreciative of us really um indicating to the community that this has not yet been chosen.

040We are doing our due diligence. We are gathering all of the puzzle pieces of respons responsible decisionmaking in fiscal stewardship and that includes making sure that we understand every option and being able to determine what's impactful and feasible. And so with that being said, I want to remind the board of the benefits associated with trailers over offsite options, which we've also talked about and still may be on the table. Um, specific to relocation of preschool because that has been a large part of our conversation. And when some of the short-term and long-term options were deemed not viable, one of the aspects that we talked about as a senior staff is the importance of keeping our children on campus. And let me remind the board of why that's so important. When you have 15 preschool classrooms

041split between our three buildings, I believe, and please correct me on my number, but six preschool classrooms at Bowling Green, five at Lewis and Clark, and four at Madison. The students are in their home schools, so they have that growing familiarity with staff and with the facility, and that transition into kindergarten is far more seamless. Additionally, because they're in our buildings, they get to access all of our resources. That's part of our inind services that are required through Head Start and through Title One. And what I mean when I say that is they have access to a registered nurse. They have access to art, music, library, and PE. And they're built into that regular rotation. And having trailers or learning cottages as an option doesn't mean by any means that we would put our most

042little learners out there. That's probably not the option we would identify. But it does mean that we would be able to maintain that student base on campus and ensure that they have equitable access to all of the resources including family engagement specialist, including school counselor. And so when faced with the remaining options that are on the table, that is why the learning cottage conversation, Mr. Taylor, became more front and center than what had originally occurred when we were talking about short and long-term options. So just wanted to make sure I revisited that with you so that there was good understanding as to why all of a sudden learning cottages are being talked about more readily. Mr. Mr. Chair, I have a question about the cottages or trailers. Um, you said that the ones in Stafford

043were about 10 years old and so I don't know, Mr. Pros, this is if this is a question for you, but what's the expected lifetime on those types of facilities? That's that's a great question. Um, I would say it depends on uh how well they're maintained and how they're installed, but uh I've seen them go anywhere from 20 to 40 years. And I will note the ones in Staffords were varying ages. Um, one of those particular sites was 10 years old, but there was a various age categories. So, in looking at those, if we do go the route of looking at Staffords, we will certainly be giving the ages and the prices on each unit. I had a second question. There's language here um that says you the hallway is down the middle and trailers

044are to be sold in equal number increments. So, explain that phrasing to me, please. Certainly. You went in the front door, you were in the hallway. Those two units buted together making two classrooms on each side of that hallway. So in the middle of the hallway you had kind of a seam like when or in the middle of the classroom you had a seam. So each Yep. two trailers together make two classes in a hallway. A double wide. Got it. Um I think double wide falls into the same category as the word trailer. Is there an alternative word we can use like learning cottage or Mr. Chair and expanded? Mr. Chair, yes, and forgive me if I'm out of turn, but I don't want to gloss over the uh prek removal out of the homeschool

045issue. Um I just want wanted to know is it would be appropriate to poll the board to see if that's the consensus of the board that whatever option that we choose by way of short-term options uh that we will not uh entertain removing our prek uh classrooms from their current campus. Mr. Chairman, I have a comment. I'm going to tag on that um because I actually made a note here. by the end of the day, I think it would be good for us, just like we did when we were looking at the building options to come up with that rubric of where our priorities are. So, if that's where you're going with that, I I think that's a good right because I know there are things to consider. Um, some of the rooms have to

046have bathrooms and my understanding is I know with these they did not have plumbing. So that's something that you know is is going to play into that decision. But certainly Mr. Fton that's that's a that's a good cause. I agree with you observation. But and and to uh Dr. Calber's point, I don't think our little ones would be housed in in the trails. It's just making sure that uh we have ample space to accommodate the entire school community. I if I if I may, um, anytime we're we're looking at anything used, I would want I I'm sure you have want to see what the maintenance logs are for those structures uh that go back to make sure that I'm not saying that they didn't, but we want to make sure that the proper maintenance was

047done on those uh facilities for an extended period of time because what we don't want to have arrival and then all of a sudden Uh, Mr. Murphy comes comes a call. And to that, Mr. Taylor, I'll have a follow-up question. When I was questioning the language, so um, in the picture with the trailers, um, we can see the emergency, well, not emergency, we can see the ramp for accessibility and then the skirting around the trailers. Does is all of that included? Yes, ma'am, it is. Okay. And we did um talk about the maintenance with the uh the the uh trailers and um the gentleman did say that um it other than the heating and since they don't have plumbing. So that kind of lessens some of the uh situations or negatives about it. But in

048short, he he did say that they had been uh taken care of very well and we could look at them and see. Now there may be things that you can't see. Obviously, there may be issues that you you can't see with the eye, but uh we did talk about it's like a used cars uh salesman. unless it they are but uh uh and I mean that only jokingly but uh you said I think in the brief that there would be something that transitioned with if if this was a choice uh we haven't said that it was but is there a a extended warranty or extended maintenance plan that goes along with these uh cottages trailers whatever we're calling that is not a question that we inquired about during the visit but we certainly can make

049note um I I believe that they purchased them. So if there was any warranty associated with them, we can inquire as to whether that could convey if it was still in existence. Um so we'll add that to um our board as an item to follow up on should the board decide we want to continue to investigate that option. I have an one final question I think about the trailers and this is about the footprint. Um so in the pictures um the space that's needed to get the right angle in these ramps when we look at the footprint of um where these would potentially go do we have the space for that footprint to look like that and I asked because I wasn't on the board at the time but I was teaching at Madison and

050I recall access and how much space and slope and all that architectural piece was a concern. So, have we looked at that yet? If if you would afford us the opportunity to address that when we get to agenda item number two because not only No, I appreciate the question and I just I don't want us to lose it, Dr. Ellensfeld. So, if you'll just make a note, I would love to address that in agenda item number two because simultaneous to your question that u Mr. Probes could certainly answer, Mr. Caldwell will be outlining a second option that is called flex classroom model. And I've only known about the flex classroom model for a very brief amount of time. But one of the components that I learned from Mr. Caldwell is that these are lower to

051the ground and therefore require far less space and angle and all of the aspects that are associated with ramp installation. And so that may be another option that the board will want to entertain. And so that would be a great question for that time period. Thank you. Thank you. And I I'm sorry, but I know we will cover somewhere along the line. Um I want to use a term force protection, but really the security of uh the structures uh you know from outside people who may not mean us well, right? And they talked about that too. They talked about the badge entry into the trailers to make them safe just as the the school is as well. So they had taken into account entrance and safety of the students just as they would be if

052they were in the regular building. And then the only other thing I will say is for us I just don't want us to forget that it is a temporary fix. It is not something that we want to do for the duration. A bridge plan. A bridge plan. And just to um address Dr. Hubard, some of the items that we we made mention of just briefly earlier, um cameras, badge entry, fencing, fire alarm, and the associated strobes, PA connection where feasible, walkie-talkies available. All of those aspects would be things that we would be very thorough in addressing and ensuring are in place as deemed appropriate for Caroline County Public Schools. Um, Dr. Mr. Chairman, may I um do we have do we still have any trailers on our property? We do not. The Madison elementary trailers

053were removed approximately three years ago and the high school trailer was removed within the last year and that trailer was fondly known um as a secondary home to the wrestling team and that's why I'm asking because if there's we have worked diligently to remove those. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Okay, hearing no more questions on the Stafford option, we'll move into 1C, which is a very brief update on the Louisa trailer visit um to look at the layout of their learning cottage community. And there I my understanding and Miss Sears would be a resident expert as an employee of Louisa County. I am certain you are um observing these spaces on a daily basis, but I believe that there are a number of learning cottage communities at varying levels and we are um very much interested

054in viewing this on May 12th. I've been working with Mr. Staley, their superintendent, and he is very eager to greet um any school board member, members of our administrative team. I did extend the invitation to the board of supervisors as well as the HOA representative um from Lady Smith Village and we certainly can reach out to the PTA president from Bowling Green. Dr. Hubard, that is not something that we have done as of yet. So, we will make sure we do that tomorrow. If you could write that as an action step for me, I'd appreciate that. Um, we will be visiting at 9:30 a.m. We are going to tour specifically the middle school learning cottage community because that is the one that is affiliated with the plans that RRMM drew up and helped install, but

055we aren't limited to that. We can look at any space um that we are interested in. We'll look at their layout. Um, and then we'll be able to have more of a a visual representation of potential learning cottages for Bowling Green and Lewis and Clark if that's a path we choose to take. Okay. Are there questions on the Louisa visit? You have received a calendar invite that is also the same day as our board meeting. So, we would be together for a large portion of the day. Um, but please respond to that calendar invite so we know who to anticipate. And then also there will be a car leaving from here should you like to carpool. Okay. On the screen we do have Louisa's um modular classrooms and at Louisa Middle School. Mr. Pros, is

056there anything that you would like to add in relation to this since this was RRMM's work? Just that these were existing modular trailers at the bottom of the plan that um were in the location where a building addition would be added. And so the plan relocated these on-site into a centralized location. And I should and I should also add that based on their proximity to the building, a toilet, a modular toilet um trailer was also added for the uh learning cottage community. Is there fencing around these? Both this one and the one at Stafford? Yes. Well, these have fencing. Okay. There was also fencing in Stafford as well. And I know that um one of the protocols that I was associated with in handover when handover was going through a growth spurt many moons ago

057um was doing the buddy system for the restroom usage. And so having all of those safety mechanisms ironed out and ready to implement will be essential whenever if ever we choose this path. I have a design question. Um, what were some of the conversations about placing them in an array like this versus in a square with a courtyard in the middle? Or did that come up? Because that just might be me with too much HGTV. You know, I'm going to be honest and tell you I was not a part of the planning for this project. So, I don't know all those levels of details. Um, I will ask know that the architect that was in charge of this project be there next week and walk through and maybe help out with some of those questions.

058Yeah, because I can see some questions about security and um in education we talk about within sight and sound and so if you're down in, you know, a pathway between two, is there an opportunity for children to go around the back? So, all of those types of things which I'm sure came up. So, I was just interested in the layout design. Thank you. Any remaining questions associated with the future trip to Louisa? Miss Sears, I hope that you're able to step away and join us. I am. Yes. Wonderful. All right, we are going to move to 1D. This closes out more of theformational sharing portion of our work session and this is in relation to the Bowling Green Community Center tour which just occurred yesterday, May 5th and we joined uh Mr. Lambert from the

059planning department. We joined um Mrs. Stevens, Mr. Caldwell, Supervisor Long, who is the chair of the board of supervisors, Chair Taylor from the school board, and Mr. Mud, our instructional assistant superintendent. And we had the good fortune of walking the community center building because one of the things that I I said at the beginning of the meeting that I will repeat because I think it's worth um sharing for the good of the board is that we are committed to knowing all facets, all aspects, all options. I say there's no good idea until it's determined not impactful or not feasible. And that is what we're doing. We are doing our due diligence. We're looking at everything and then eliminating based on those criteria that we want to use to get to the the final outcome. So,

060one of the things that was presented or brainstormed was we already use the community center gymnasium in partnership with the county and as a temporary measure. Is there any space availability in the community center that would allow us to shift additional resource classes, art, music, library over to the community center in order to create classroom space? because we are without classroom space at Bowling Green. We know that we will need at least one classroom next year and we also know that we are doing remediation and intervention in non-traditional spaces such as hallways. And so, um, we had a great opportunity to tour all three floors of the community center. It was delightful actually to spend time and talk about the resources in that building. That alone was enlightening. Um, but what we ultimately determined was

061on the the main floor, which is the floor that is most um known by our community, there is no available space. Um, the EOCC space is um used regularly, but also it is a command center um for fire EMS should there be a crisis scenario. The gym is already being shared with us during the day and very well utilized outside of the school hours. And then of course, Parks and Wreck has um that beautiful home right outside of the library. Now, when you move into the library, that was deceptively large. I had not gone beyond the the glass um office space that is in the center when you walk in. And what we did decide um is that there are two rooms within the back portion of the library that if we looked at that

062as a viable option. We could potentially and in and art music if you are listening to me right now this is not a decision that has been made. Okay. So we want to be very clear and actually we'll set a meeting up with the school if this is something the board is interested in so we can talk with with these folks. But art class and music class could potentially be there. Now, downsides, it's the backside of the library. The library is a community location, so we'd have to worry about overlap between community members and students. So, that becomes a potential safety matter. We would obviously be able to navigate some of the um door scenarios with safety. um implementation, badge readers, things of that nature. We also have a beautiful um child or children's space

063in the library. We even, you know, talked about do we move library over here and enclose that space and use the library or the public library. But again, all of this was brainstorm. We we saw the librarian there. She knew what we were there for. We told her we weren't here to hijack her space. we just we're we're literally in no box thinking mode and we wanted to be able to say to the community, listen, we have vetted lots of options. Um but that was what we found in the library space. In the very back there's a a beautiful um historic document space. Um there was a gentleman in Caroline County that donated a large amount of historical um records and archives and that also if we were in in the the need to take

064space that would be something we could have conversation about but that would not be my recommendation. There's a lot in there and it would be a lot to um maneuver. So there was space there. We then went upstairs um which is the um department of social services. First of all, kudos to um the the board of supervisors that has had a lovely renovation. New carpeting, new paint. It looked fabulous. And all of the social workers and all of their support staff were in their offices and so um gracious letting us walk through their space. But that is extremely well utilized. every office, you know, really had a support person in there. So, there was nothing viable on that that DSS floor. U Mr. Lambert then brought us down a staircase and out um to the

065end that's the farthest um closest to the the side parking lot where you think more about pulling in if you're going to the health department or um goodness, what else is over there? The dental clinic. Yes, thank you so much. Um in the um main building part there is an A it's RA AAA Rapahhanic Area Agency on Aging classroom. It's beautiful. It's massive. We talked about usage and the usage is nominal, right? If we're talking about usage as an art classroom, we're talking about five days a week, eight hours a day. they believed it might be used for three to four times a week at most. The same was true of the the one room on the library floor was used for for storage. Um but there was also elevator access in that room which

066would not be an ideal situation unless we were able to block off that floor which might not leave the county in ADA compliance. The other room was for AARP and that is nominal usage as well. So in essence there is space if we were to determine that that is something we wanted to have further conversation about. Mrs. along was, you know, very um agreeable to having conversation. But of course, if that was something we wanted to entertain, we'd want all the right people at the table, including, you know, the the AARP and I believe maybe Parks and Wreck, who helps organize the the sign up for that space. Um, so we ultimately said we would present our findings to the board and if the board was interested in continuing to pursue that, we would ask

067Mr. Lambert for some usage data. So we indeed knew exactly how many people were in there. Certainly the goal is never to displace any program but to work in collaboration for scheduling purposes. Um the one downside over the um Rapahhanic Area Agency on Aging is that it is it's a a a decent little walk. It's farther than the gym that our kids walk to. Um, and on days where there's no inclement weather, that would be very doable. But if it was raining, we even talked about we would want to shuttle them. And so we would want them just to hop on the bus, be driven around, not even on the main road, but just through the parking lot pathway, and we would drop them off for them to go in. Again, not an ideal long-term

068plan, but a short-term method that's on the table, but could be quickly removed or quickly moved forward if it was of interest to the board. Um, Mrs. Stevens, uh, Miss Chair Taylor or Mr. Caldwell, am I leaving anything off other than the health department and the dental clinic? That building is leased. And so the county is in a lease with those two entities and we all are very familiar with the community health assessment information and those are viable resources um to our our community. So that building wasn't even discussed. So but it was it was very interesting and enlightening and I learned many things having been here for nine years that I was unaware of. So um even if nothing comes of it I think it was time well spent. So Chris, Marca, or Chair

069Taylor, anything else on our community center tour? The space downstairs was more promising to be able to use because used without the public having to come through where the library had the public going through. Um, you know, Ted said that area would be more feasible to be able to separate the public from the school children as well. That brought up the transportation issue um where we would have to actually bus them around because there is not a straight line from the Bowling Green Elementary School. You are 100% correct and I appreciate you bringing that to their attention. That space could easily um be secured. So there was no interaction with the community. There also um are there two single stall restrooms that are right outside the classroom. So the bathroom scenario is not as cumbersome

070as what it may look like if we were actually in the library space. So those were just the conversations we were having. Again, non-committal, just factf finding, knowing all of our options, being good stewards of information and knowledge. So questions on the community center. Yeah. Um the only other thing that I would add the RAA section was an ideal space. The only thing is that our senior citizens of the county use that space. I don't know how many days a week that they use it. Uh, but I could see that being a a major concern because we we're talking a daily use between 9 and three or whatever the time is. And uh, and I know they used to be in there during the middle of the day, so I don't know, you know, how

071many days a week they use it. Uh, but it was a long time getting that space for them and I don't know that that's something we would want to uh infringe on. Then again, they may not be using it as much. So, we'll just have to see. But we do need to bear that in mind. Mr. chairman. Um, in listening to the conversation, for me, um, safety is a top concern for us that has always been at the top of our rubric and it sounds like it introduces a lot of, um, other variables um, that could be beyond our control. Um, and so at first glance, while I'm open, you know, I do have a concern about that. Um, I do think that the dental clinic and the health clinic have been great partners. Um,

072and that whole site just in general with the use of the gym and such, I think it's a great model of what it looks like when schools and county facilities share a purpose. So for students that don't have dentist um private dentist I do know that they have those appointments and they get picked up and they walk right over there and get their teeth cleaned etc etc but for ongoing high traffic mixing public I have a concern there and then the loss of instructional time with just trying to get where you're trying to go for me kind of makes this an option that I don't know that I would I think I don't know that we should explore. That's just my opinion. Those are fair points and ones that we had um quite a bit

073of discussion while standing on the sidewalk in between the dental clinic and the our AAA space. Um while the space is ideal, we talked about loss of instructional time with having to shuttle. Um, we also talked about um just the sheer overlap with constituents coming in and out of those facilities regardless of being walked by an adult um should they be walking. And so um the same concerns that you've just brought to light were certainly topics that we talked about. But again, we weren't in the position to take things off the table. We just wanted to be able to bring our experience to you to demonstrate that it's, you know, an option that was brought forward and we vetted it and if we deem it not viable, then it will be removed. Absolutely. And thank

074you because I know that I we are we are not in a space that we can afford to just not know. Correct. We have to have factual information. So, thank you. Absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um I I actually am in uh complete agreeance with Dutch. These are community spaces that we're we're we're talking about. So I mean the community um dare I say has a vote uh because they certainly have would have some concerns in these areas should they uh lose them to support uh uh classrooms or or whatnot. So um you know and of course again safety uh you know there's greater chance for interaction uh with students and and folks we may not necessarily want there to be an interaction with. So um I I I'm not um a great fan of

075of this option. It's just there's too much risk in this. Thank you. Other comments from board members concerns? Yes. I have one question. If we use if you're looking at that one room, how many potential classrooms does that even put into Bowling Green? It would be the removal of one encore class or one resource class. So, for example, we would move music or we would move art um from the main campus and into that position. So, it would afford us the opportunity to recapture one classroom space. We know we absolutely need one as mentioned um to those that were able to tour with us and in other venues of course that we've talked about this. Bowling Green added two unanticipated classrooms. Um in August, we had to add a classroom because we had such significant

076increase in enrollment. And then in November, we exceeded our class size reduction ratio from the state. We are required to be 23 to1 in all K through3 classrooms. And the minute you hit 24 in one room on a grade level, you must add an additional highly qualified teacher. And so we did not have any classroom space available. When you do the tour, um, you will see that we actually have three staff members on the transformed old stage that's behind the library space. We have gifted, we have the ISS coordinator, and we have our innovation specialist all operating out of that one room. And then um, that's also not ADA compliant, so it can't serve as a classroom because there's stairs up to it. And we relocated them there because one of them was actually in

077a a space that is about 40% the size of a full-size classroom. And we created a classroom of 12 students. And so we pulled 12 students out of those current classrooms in order to be compliant. But that is because it was the only space that we could operationalize. Um and so we know next year we will not be creating a classroom at that grade level of 12 to 13 students. We want to reduce class size ratio across the grade level. So we need a full-size classroom and there are no available rooms. Um, we we looked at some of our special need classrooms that are full-size and may have a case load of 8 to 12 students, but many of them have a large number of physical needs, including restroom um, accommodations. And so, there must

078be a restroom in their classroom. They may be working on toileting, IEP goals, things of that nature. They may need um, two pair of professionals to escort to the bathroom. And so, they have to be in a room. So that is also very um um limiting and also guided by the law. And so to be able to swap that classroom into a smaller space is not viable. Um so we we really have done multiple walks, multiple facility reviews um and looked at um some nobox thinking options of which you'll hear about some more in the very near future. Mr. chair. Now, we haven't um I guess there are some restrict some uh limitations, but um as we are looking at the the cottages and or trailers, um cost I I see there's only really one

079kind of a cost estimate with the uh Louisa and I I think you said uh Stafford was still kind of trying to figure out what that would be. Um Do we have a a general uh cost estimate for trail uh cottages, trailers, installation, uh ground preparation, the the the full Have we looked at that estimate yet? Certainly. So, we are gathering estimates at this time. We do have some items on our next item um that we are moving into um to provide some raw figures. They are not through the procurement process at this point. So they are raw figures that we will be providing. Um Stafford had um is not providing a number at this point. They are working with their procurement department to determine the cost of um the purchase price of their units.

080Um if I can revisit that with Stafford. Stafford is not available for this upcoming school year anyway. Correct. Okay. Moving out of agenda items 1 A, B, C, and D and entering agenda item two, which is shortterm elementary school facility options for 2526. This is where I would invite the board to work towards decision makingaking so that the administrative side of the house can begin to really move the train down the track with that timeline that was mentioned with estimates and quotes and working alongside planning to talk about permitting if that includes um the need for learning cottages to be erected. And so um wanted to talk about Bowling Green first and then move into Lewis and Clark if that's an acceptable order. Um Miss C Dr. Hverick and Mr. Chairman, is this a good

081point to put back up our rubric of what our priorities were? We talked about like right size, right fit, those sorts of things as we look at these options. Sure, we can certainly write those here. don't have it electronically to put up on the screen. Um, but Mrs. Stevens can pull it up on her computer and we can then call out those criteria and list them on the board. And that was utilized um for the community's awareness. We had created a rubric with a number of criteria. At the beginning of this phase when RRMM was constructing comprehensive options, we had eight options presented to us. The board held a workshop and narrowed that down using the rubric to four and those four were then brought to the board of supervisors for discussion in joint workshop.

082but they also were brought to the community in a series of about 15 to 20 community meetings where we received feedback. Ultimately those were not um deemed viable because of the financial commitment associated with the comprehensive plans. It ranged from about $67 million upwards to a hundred million. And so the supervisors asked for us to return with short-term and long-term options that could be parcled out into maybe years 0 to three and four to 10, which those date ranges we self- selected. That was not a a specific request from the supervisors other than to bring those options forward. Um and so Marsha Stevens is writing those criteria on the board. So that might be useful as we talk through some of these potential options for 2526. So the first item is does the option address

083anticipated growth and I think with that we know this is a short-term option. So, the short-term option may not address anticipated growth because that is a 10-year projection that we were looking at, but it would address immediate growth needs. Does it require redistricting? Does it alleviate overcrowding? In this situation, we might put the caveat in parentheses temporarily. Is it a right size, right fit? Let me give you an example. Lewis and Clark is a great example of really needing to evaluate this criteria. They have over a thousand students. And would it make sense to add additional classrooms onto an elementary school that's already servicing a thousand students? Is that a right size, right fit for an elementary school based on research? and we would need to have that discussion in order to approve and move

084forward with that option or ultimately eliminate should that be discussed in the future. So is our temporary solution a right size right fit? Does it reduce or eliminate deferred maintenance? Well, I think we all are cognizant that we have significant deferred maintenance like home ownership. We have life cycles with the inards of buildings, the exteriors of buildings such as roofing, HVAC systems, plumbing, mechanical, electrical. These shortterm options in all likelihood will not address deferred maintenance. And so that's something to be aware of, but certainly something we can discuss further. One of the criteria that we were committed to was the addressing of the transportation center need. And so that actually that criteria found its way into all of our final comprehensive options and continues to be something that we'll want to look at in agenda

085item number three, which is short-term priorities for years 0ero through three versus 2526. And the last item is what is the design or construction duration? Meaning what is the length of the project? So out of our temporary options, our bridge plan is the timeline associated with that feasible for implementation. Will it allow us to do the good work we need to do come August 14th or 15th, whatever that school opening date is. And so some of those will be very applicable. I think the other items that we need to be attentive to that were mentioned tonight are is it an option that promotes safety or that we can ensure safety plans around? And then the second item that was mentioned tonight that may drive some of our decision making was is there a commitment from

086the board and a desire to ensure that prek remain on campus? so that they can ultimately access all of the resources previously mentioned. Are there any other criteria that people maybe have been thinking of that we haven't mentioned because I think those are good that's a good filter for decision making. Dr. Ellen Fels, thank you. Okay. Okay. So we just made a list of things that we could talk about. This is more of the workshop mode where we have open discussion to talk through some of these things. So we obviously have talked about trailers at length learning cottages. Mr. Caldwell is going to talk about an option called flex space classrooms which are are comparable to trailers but a different approach. We've talked about the community center being an option. We have talked or will

087be talking about glass wall dividers specifically and again no commitment to these spaces. So I don't want anyone listening feeling like this is a done deal. If it is something we're going to pursue, I will personally come over to Bowling Green and talk to those who may be impacted. Talking about putting some of our Encore classes on a cart, not ideal. Done this at Pearson's Corner Elementary School. my young years as an assistant principal, but it got us to a new building and it was a short temporary option and we would be looking at Bowling Green specifically at art and music. Now, take note that music is the classroom for those that have toured. It is the backside of the stage and it is way off in the corner of the cafeteria. So if we

088were to use that as a classroom, we would need to test the noise associated with the time period of lunch and we would make sure that the safety of that classroom was secured since they would be much farther away from the other classrooms on that grade level because there's a significant distance there. We also have talked about um glass wall divider in the back of the library which would allow us to potentially build what would look like almost an open classroom because there's an architectural ceiling at Bowling Green. If you have looked at the ceiling any time recently, you'll see that there it's beautiful, but there it's an uneven ceiling with architectural dimension. And so a glass divider couldn't go all the way to this top. So we would the old idea of open classrooms

089where there would be maybe a foot to two feet open and the library would be shortened and there'd be a longer rectangular classroom in the back that would have ample space and it also has egress from the back corner of the art room or excuse me of the library. So it would be exiting out towards the art the current art room and they would be able to go down the hallway to access other locations in the building without disrupting the library classes that are occurring. And so that would obviously be a temporary fix, not ideal, but again thinking with ingenuity and innovation based on where we are looking at all options and then to address the programmatic needs. you know that um postcoid the state has required an extensive addition of remediation intervention resources and

090staff. Additionally, we've added reading coaches and math specialists um to the staff. We have requested a third counselor based on the um community we're serving, the needs that have been presented um at Bowling Green. And so all of these specialty programs, including the expansion of our English language learner population, has tripled at Bowling Green. All of these services need a space. And when you tour, you will see every nook and cranny that is permitted by by fire EMS code we are utilizing. But many of them are open to anyone passing by. And this includes occupational therapy services which are in a nook which is an appropriate amount of space but not an appropriate location and we're using temporary bookshelving units to create some confidentiality. So these are the programmatic growth. So when we make decisions

091we need to make decisions not only thinking about enrollment capacity but also functional capacity which is more of the program growth. Mr. Chair, Mr. Chair, I deliberately wait because I really wanted to hear that that list and it it's extensive. [Music] Um while I know u my co colleagues may may not uh agree um at this point but I I I wanted to add um finance or cost cost estimates to uh the rubric. I know it it it is I'm suggesting it because we we can't we can't escape that. There's a exhaustive list of things that need to that we need to have done. But we honestly as a board know that we cannot do it all uh by August of next year uh or even by uh August a year from now. But the

092the point here is that we must at some point include in these discussions realistic cost estimates on what uh we're even possibly possible uh have the ability to do. If not, I think we're we may be setting ourselves up. Uh Mr. Chair, could I just ask a question? Dr. Hubbert, are there anything on the list that you think will be cost prohibitive at this point? Well, for example, we don't know what the cost for the the trailers might or might be. I mean, we're still trying to figure that out. So, it's it's kind of hard to put a dollar amount. I I agree there, but it just can't be an open-ended uh discussion. And as previously shared in this agenda item, we are getting to some of the available dollars and cents that we have

093access to right now. Remember this is preliminary information. If you remember, we met on April 16th with the the joint boards coming together and we have lifted all of this work since then. It is an extensive body of information. We have been exhaustive in our search and we are awaiting some of those quotes. So, we're going to give you the estimates that we have. Absolutely. I'm not I'm not expecting us to at the end to say uh to the dime or to the but it must be I think a part of our discussions. Oh, absolutely. So, I have added that criteria knowing that that is ultimately one one of the drivers as to why we are where we are right now. Right. none of our comprehensive plans were able to be um adopted. Our long-term

094and short-term plans were determined not viable. And so here we are looking at all of these options to address that very shortterm lens. And then it's up to the board to identify what we want the shortterm 0 to3 and the long-term 4 to 10 to look like and bring that option to the board of supervisors to discuss the funding component. Thank you. I guess the only other thing that I would add is if we had an idea of the funding that's going to be available to us. It's very difficult to sit here and determine the direction that you're going to go and you have no idea of the funding that's going to be available to you. Now, and I take what you're saying very seriously, Dr. Dr. Harvard and I agree with you. The only

095thing is if we don't have any idea of the uh the funding that's available, h how are we going to narrow it down or say you this is something that won't work because when we don't know what the funding is? Well, m Mr. Chair, I I would offer that uh there there are two ways we do that. Uh step one of step one is we look in the mirror. What do we have? We don't know yet. Uh what are we going to have at the end of the year? Uh that those funds is that any of that uh available to use for this. So we actually say this is this is what we we have and it's not going to meet the you know the the end state. So now we go we need you

096know x you know amount of dollars after we've done a good cost estimate and say this is what we need and between those two amounts we should be able to get to where we're at or where we need to be. I think Mr. Chairman if I may um I'll address the comment directly because I was the one that said in the joint board meeting that at that time my concern was not so much cost. I said that and I said that publicly. Um, and my rationale for saying that was not pie in the sky and let's put a school on a blimp and build a rainbow with a pot of gold on the other end. It was to say we are looking at programmatic needs and what is current day cost of a high school

097of a middle school because some of the numbers that were floating around were not in real time. Um I have not seen one thing that says that we can build a school for $10 million. Am I right? That is not feasible in today's economy. And so at that time I did not feel that cost was the leading driver. It was what is the current state of affairs? What is the needs of our community demographic growth? what is the real status of our school buildings and all of those things and to put all of the pieces on the table and then say as we're moving the pieces if we determine that we need a new school a new and I'll just make up something we need a new high school I did not want us to

098be limited by saying we can't go over x amount of dollars because cost was an initial driver at this point when we have to start making real decisions about long-term and shortterm of course cost comes on the table. Um so I just want to clarify that it is I am not of the position that it doesn't matter what it cost because I pay taxes here as well. What I am saying is that we have to look at long-term plans, then have a bridge plan and come up with a viable short-term plan and work with real numbers. That's what I was proposing. So, I just want to clarify that because I've heard that now a number of occasions and it's been taken out of context. So, thank you for allowing me to clarify. Thank you. So

099at this point I would like for us to delve a bit more deeply into a few of the items that I had mentioned that we have not yet spoken about and that will be u Mr. Caldwell who will share information on flex classroom which you have a packet or at least a document or two associated with this model flex classrooms. I believe that Miss Stevens also has pulled that up behind us. He also will transition into information associated with glass partition walls um for intervention remediation spaces and possibly that temporary classroom built at the back end of the Bowling Green Library. So at this time I will turn it over to Mr. Caldwell to lead us through that information. Um Mr. Caldwell I would invite you to do the flex model and then ask questions

100if you will and then switch into the glass wall enclosures. Thank you, Dr. Kelber. And a lot of this with our gathering of information, um, a some of this information was actually just given to me yesterday. Um, so I'm still in the review process as well. Um, especially when it comes to the second document, um, from Will Scott that is right behind the, uh, flex classroom. Um when we were talking with the homeowners association over at Lewis or Lady Smith Village, you know, one thing they said was architecturally pleasing. Um when I started talking with Will Scott to see what was available out there, they introduced me to this new flex room flex classroom. Um each module for this is about 160 square feet. um that gives you the flexibility to add as you grow,

101reduce as you need to as well. Um my first glance at the photographs and designs of these units reminded me of a ConX box. Um and it is not that far off as far as the design goes. Um these can be set on pavement on ABS pads, so you have no foundation work to do on these as well. They're very adaptable. They have classrooms. They have uh cafeterias. They have restrooms that are available. Walkways come with the lease. Um they do have an additional four covered walkways um that is available. And I also am noticing on a quick review of the other quote that we have from them, which is a you know a very good ROM number for it. um that they also rent right down to the furniture um if we had the

102need for the furniture for the classrooms as well. Um there is the availability to go look at one of these units. Uh I know they have one unit available when I on Thursday of last week. Um, they actually have a whole complex set up. I believe it is in Farmville. I could be mistaken. Um, but they're they're rebuilding a their school down there. I have not been able to verify that location, but they have that whole complex set up down there right now. Any questions on the flex space? Mr. Chair, you said these are lease. Yes, they are lease only on these units. Okay. And they come with furniture. We can get them with furniture. They come with the whiteboards on the teaching walls, um, open space, or we can lease the furniture as well.

103And I'm assuming the same type of coding uh making sure that we're at code uh like what we're doing with if we were to get the trailers, we'd have to do that with this as well. Yes, it would still be permitted to put them on site um and get everything run through um the county as well on the plan on the permitting side. Last question, I'm sorry. How many students go into a space? The space that they had quoted us is on a 800 square ft. So we were looking at up to 30 students of the fifth grade is what we were looking at. Now we do not have any classrooms at 30 students. So I want to be very clear. We don't need a false narrative out there about classroom size. Um but I

104do and I apologize. we were having a sidebar about getting an additional whiteboard since we've run out of space. So, Mr. Robinson is is um graciously doing that for us. So, forgive me if I'm repeating something that you have mentioned, Mr. Caldwell. And that is um that um this would cost approximately $3,500 a month is is um what we indicated. Um and that um the building and delivery at 800 square ft would be $17,750 per um unit. And the dismantle and removal of the unit would be $11,285. and that was based on the 800 square foot model. So, this is a new option. And could you please repeat for me um where we could go and view this in place? When I talked to her the other day, I believe she had said Farmville. I

105know she was driving at the time. I will get that information back as well um from from the sales representative. And this does this price for the lease on this does include the ramps and steps. And again, because it would be on what I think you deemed an ABS pad. Yes. So, no concrete footers to be needed under these units. U because of the way they're designed, there's not a single um point load point on the unit itself. It is spread out throughout the entire unit. So, Mr. Probes, I'm going to put you on the spot. I don't know as the CEO president of RRMM, have you had any involvement with this type of product or aware of its usage? I have not. The these are actually new to me. I the more traditional trailers

106very comfortable with and and have quite a bit of knowledge about, but these are relatively new to me. Thank you. Where did you say we could see one of these or actually go visit one or I believe it was Farmville, but I need to solidify that and make sure. Any additional questions or thoughts in relation to continued pursuit of this option? And so we're talking about a lease with Yes. These flex spaces are only available through a lease. One of the positives associated with the lease is that the removal is part of the process versus when you own a trailer, that responsibility becomes the school board's responsibility. And so that is a point to you know make sure we are cognizant of. Um and then of course the aspect that Dr. Rollins Bells pointed out

107about the needed space for ramp elevation when this is on a concrete pad. I think that reduces of course the I guess the surface area that would be needed in order to to do the ramp layout. Again I am a little bit out of my depth of knowledge regarding ramps but that is my understanding. Yeah, the entry point entry point on these units is about 8 in. So you'd be looking at about 8 in height of ramp at an inch per foot for rise. So and there's no plumbing with this. No, but they do have the flex spaces available for lease as well that would add a bathroom unit. And we could always if we decided to purchase, you know, the learning cottages from Stafford or went with a different vendor, we could still come

108back and get, you know, lease the bathroom, you know, the restroom facilities, you know, to add to our complex as well. So many options out there. Mr. Chairman, I have a question. Um, so a standard trailer 12x60 is 720 square feet and these um looks like a pod to me. Um, each of these modules would be 160 square feet. So we would need to purchase at least four four and a half to equal five. So we would split it. You'd have three center units and two end units on that. They'd be 8 feet by 40 feet long is what they're looking at. So to have to purchase five of these to equal one trailer, how does that math work out in the long term would be a question. Does that question make? So that's one

109question that I had. And then two, while clearance being so low to the ground could be a good thing in one instance, I'm thinking snow, rain, runoff, this kind of thing. Um, so I'd be interested to know what that looks like as a tradeoff. Yep. Placement would be, you know, ideal. You know, you would have to look through where the water's running, you know, where the what the grade looks like and, you know, keep all that in mind before we do placement. Dr. Rollinsfelds, I don't know if this will be helpful to the the board as a whole, but if you look at and I apologize, they're not numbered, but the the back side of this where we have a highlight in yellow, that does provide you the financials associated with the 800 square ft.

110And that explains how those different units are paired together. So 800 square foot single classroom is $3,500 a month. The rental includes the aluminum steps and the ADA ramp. Building and delivery and installation is $17,750 and building dismantle and removal is 11,285. So that might help. And that is per 800 square foot unit. And so because this is a lease scenario, we would have that monthly payment on each of the units we deem necessary whether that is for 2526 and beyond or we'd have to look at the 2627 pricing if we did not utilize this option or any option associated with learning cottages. Okay. And also I could draw your attention if you go through the document. The third page has colored pictures on it as well, front and back. The fourth page after that

111is what you would consider a learning cottage double wide. That is a lease on a 20 a 36 by 24 or a 40 by 24 classroom is what they're calling that. That one does have furniture included. This would have a a cost for foundation work that would be roughly about 60k on top of the lease as well. Mr. Chair, certainly. Uh maintenance upkeep. Who's responsible for that? This is a lease, so I'm assuming I'm not going to assume anything. Who's responsible for the the maintenance on these? That's a good question. We haven't gone that deep in. I know there was slight talk about that. You know, they said you take care of light bulbs, you know, stuff like that. Um, but we have not dug all the way into, you know, who to call if

112the roof leaks. Okay. And another same question uh I asked earlier, it capable. Yes, the flex spaces are supposed to be plugandplay. Everything comes from your source to an external box that is located in you know connection to the unit itself and it is already wired inside of the unit on all the walls. Outstanding. I was waiting for someone to go go there. So what this also highlights is we are going to need additional IT equipment to get from the hub out to uh the the the inspace. And that's that's a cost that has to be captured not to not in this model we also have safety measures that will need to be calculated but again we aren't able to do all of that work in the time period we've had aotted since April 16th

113and we need some decisions in order to invest our energies in the right option and so that is where we are hopeful that as we move through tonight and possibly the workshop on Monday, we can conclude what is necessary for the 2526 school year so that we can begin to invest in that. Let me be clear. I'm not expecting miracles. You know, you know, and I don't want anyone, you know, the questions I'm asking to think, well, you're supposed to come prepared well. You're not going to have, and I understand that, and I and I I respect that. Um, I'm just, you know, raising these questions because I think these are the types of questions we need to consider as we're we're going forward, not as an indictment on anyone who is is is here.

114Understood. Yes, sir. Mr. Chair, one question. Uh, do we know what timeline once again we're working with? if there's a decision made to go um go with this particular route, what what time are we working with as far as making sure that uh this is installed for the 2526 school year? When I talked to him on Thursday of last week, like I said, they had one unit of the flex available and that is the one they actually gave us the ROM quote on. This still would need to go through procurement to make sure that we have some sort of contract writer on this. Um I know with the Will Scott does have some um cooperative contracts that we've used in the past um for the ConX boxes here at the middle school. Um the trailer,

115the double wide as we want to call it, the conventional learning cottage. Um if you look they did put a delivery date on that for the availability of this unit um of 7:24. So of the one unit of this one unit. Yes. So if if we were looking at this just for the sake of discussion I think we need six classrooms at Bowling Green. And if we decided to go this route, is there an estimated cost of everything putting it up? Once we have that direction, what we would need to do is get a firm quote from them. You know, this is just a rough order of magnitude on the pricing. So they would they would come back we'd come back to them and say we need four classrooms or we need six classrooms plus

116a restroom or what options we want. They would provide us a hard quote at that point. Okay. I was just and I don't want to to pin you down, but it's kind of hard to think in terms of the direction if you have no idea with of the funding that you're talking about. So, if you took the flex classroom space and you needed six classrooms, you could multiply that by six times. Okay. Which would give you a high number. We know that would be a good budget point to come from. Mr. Chairman, I have a question. So, um, right now in in terms of how fast they would be able to mobilize, there's only one unit available locally. They are a nationwide company. She has not looked at nationwide availability yet. Okay. So, Dr. Dr.

117Co, what I'm hearing you say is as a board, we need to determine whether or not we even want you to continue to invest time in this. So cost aside, maybe a question is does this even meet the other things in the rubric and start there? And these types of comments are going to help us work expeditiously between now and Monday's meeting. And our goal would be to have as many of these detailed answers to the questions presented tonight for workshop so that we can have that laid out for you and it helps you narrow down using the rubric criteria. Okay. Gotcha. What I will share um in relation to a comment that was made I I want to be clear. Um we in the RRM demographic study that was provided we have moderate growth

118numbers and we have high growth numbers and that deals with enrollment capacity only. It does not address the functional capacity of programs. So in relation to moderate growth, we need over the time period that was outlined, we need to have three classrooms at Bowling Green and at the high growth, we need four classrooms, but that does not include the functional capacity. So while six classrooms were stated, that's that's not a number that we have generated at this point in time. We certainly need intervention remediation space, but it could be that we do a combination of glass walls for some of those spaces plus a learning cottage. And all of that is open for discussion. So want to make sure we we're honing in on not only the enrollment growth but also the capacity growth for

119programs and it's the immediate that's the immediate growth. That's what you're referencing and that's for years zero through three. So from a functional standpoint, program included and enrollment included is six classrooms the goal at BGE to do what needs to be done in the med. We have not indicated six and I'm not sure maybe I can ask Mr. Taylor, was there a certain certain document that you saw referencing six classrooms? No, I I just remember hearing that number somewhere and I don't um I don't remember where it was, but Mr. Chairman, yeah. Okay, there we go. Thank you for clarity. Okay, Mr. Chair, but that was also a point that Chairman Cely had mentioned about adding the six additional classrooms with the uh Thank you. push out walls. Okay. So yes, a as we're looking

120at possibilities and I'm glad you mentioned capacity because short-term we got to do what we need to get done. I and I understand that, right? But long term, and I I mentioned this on on the tour that we had, you know, adding capacity, not to add more students, but adding capacity to that building to give teachers, you know, that that elbow room and that those special needs. um you know don't discount you're not discounting anything I know but let's also look at that as as a as a possibility where you know if they're you know in favor of that and it's going to give us capacity down the road that's not necessarily a bad thing. So direct question instructionwise how many classrooms for class size reduction etc etc from that side is an absolute must

121for in from the narrow lens of instruction. Yes, ma'am. For classroom needs, we would want to go with four learning cottages. That would cover years 0 to three for high growth. Knowing that we've added two anticipated classrooms and we're already in a deficit of one, one of those four would automatically be assumed. That would leave us with three and those three would become classrooms in terms of growth over that time period. And or as that enrollment is growing over years 0 through three and hopefully we're simultaneously building a new facility for elementary, we then could also use those for intervention remediation spaces. That's going to be my next question with and I don't know if you have the answer right now, but when you look at all the tutoring spaces, remediation spaces, how many physical

122rooms would we need ideally to move people out of the hallways and the dedicated learning areas to put them in a classroom? We have approximately seven hallway classrooms that are utilized on a daily basis. They would not all need their own learning cottage. We could cluster maybe two, even three, depending on the load of service, right? If it's a small group of five or less, you may be able to put wall dividers naturally in that space and and use that and have a level of um confidentiality and privacy. So, we have seven that are currently in the hallways servicing students. And then, of course, we know that we have a request for an additional counselor. So, that person will need a space um to work out of as well. So we would be appropriating those

123resources based on the best fit. Understood. And then last question um how many specials meaning your art music how many of our how many specials classes are there? I want to make sure I'm understanding your question. Are you art, music, library, PE? And we do have the fifth day of resource is split between the innovation specialist who goes in and teaches STEM and computer science standards with school counseling. But remember, the innovation specialist is already on a cart because they lost their classroom to growth. I'm going somewhere with my question. Yes, ma'am. So, five specials, correct? Okay. Thank you. And they have a full load at over 800 students already. And I'm asking as we're processing out loud because this is a workshop. It does not make sense to me to go too small and

124then you're limited or to go too large and it's wasteful. So, what is that right size, right fit where then program needs could shift. So if it's four classrooms in terms of students in chair teacher facilitating learning or specials to make that shift or remediation and support it looks like any way you slice it, it's looking at four to five and I would probably lean more on five versus going three or two. Correct. Would you agree with I would agree with that. And ironically, the number of six that was mentioned earlier may ultimately be where we find ourselves at the end of the 0 to3 window. But I think we start with that four which is the classroom component outlined in the demographic study and we need to pad that by at least one to

125two in order to address the programmatic growth. Well in the I'm sorry Mr. Chair in the equivalent number if we decide to go with the flexible classroom because we were talking about learning colleges. I want to make sure we're we're separating them as far as the exact number that we're targeting for the zero to three years. I'm trying to follow you. Okay. So, you're talking the flex classrooms. Yes. So, I think we we've gotten a range of learning cottages that will be required for the zero through three year period. I just want to make sure that uh we have that same range for the flexible classroom if we decide to go that route. Absolutely. So the learning cottages have to go in units of two in order to make the two classrooms. The flex looks

126like you can get one flex for the actual classroom. So we would need to be working in even numbers when it comes to those um Mr. Chair. Yes, double wide cottages. But going back to Dr. fells point here. Um because we are a databased driven uh organization the data that we have to subst to support or substantiate that need would be the high end um numbers uh high growth that's that we would use to I would say justify that's maybe the wrong word but to base the discussion on uh as to whether or not six, you know, five, six or whatnot, that that upper end. So, we do have data uh to support the the the argument. I think I see where you're going. And if I may, I was actually on a on a

127different page, but I like where you're going, so let's marry our two thoughts. What I was thinking was right now in the immediate, if the goal was to walk through BGE and there not be learning moments in hallways to completely rectify that situation. How many spaces do we need? How many classrooms? Because we know about the classroom of 12. We know that that's not sustainable. And so what does that number look like? I I think another question would be how many um prek classes Head Start early childhood are at Bowling Green. There are six early childhood classrooms including Title One, VPI, Head Start, and early childhood special education. So my thought was in the immediate, what do we know that we need right now that if we did enough space, we'd have the flexibility to

128say specials are going in the learning cottage or early childhood is going in the learning cottage or you see what I'm saying? You would have more flexibility with that. But that's just for the immediate need. What I hear you saying which tags to that thought is beyond 25 26 school year. Now we need to add to that base number and say six for the immediate plus for low growth or medium growth plus plus for high growth. So I think we're getting does that make sense? It does. Um and it it does in in many ways. one, it it gives us more of a strategic perspective. Uh looking much deeper than just the immediate. Now, that's what we're here to try to figure out 25. I get that, but we need to look deeper than that.

129That's really, you know, when we were at the uh walkth through at Bowling Green, you know, I really liked the idea of adding those additional uh classrooms because it does give you um the possibility to expand uh well past uh 2526. But again, what do we need to deal with 2526? I I don't want us to lose perspective on that. But I agree with you. Okay. And I would only like to add one thing. Is there we put the rubrics up there. Is there a rubric that this does not meet? Um I'm just thinking in terms of, you know, if if it meets all of those rubrics, great. But if there's something that it does not meet, then maybe we need to look at that and and and see if that's important enough to uh

130go to a different plan or to not use that. May I suggest that prior to having that rubric conversation, which I think is very important, Chair Taylor, that we afford Mr. Probes the opportunity to share the next document, which is a map. It's a layout associated with where learning cottages may be placed at Bowling Green. And I think having an understanding of that information would also allow us to be better equipped to answer the rubric criteria. Okay. Okay. Thank you. So, this is an aerial image of Bowling Green Elementary School and you see the white dashed lines around the perimeter, those are at 100 and 200 ft. um knowing that we want to in the event there are no restroom facilities in the temporary cottages or trailers to have them within um the recommended 300

131ft of indoor restrooms. Um, so we have positioned uh across the uh back side of the building. And I will say uh it's easy in an aerial image to place these on a map, but when I walked the site today, um the bottom two on the far right nearest the parking lot probably are not permissible based on a drop off. Um, but the two where the arrow is are on a concrete or asphalt slab as well as the two directly to the right of those where the basketball uh courts are. And then there the three top ones are probably uh realistic based on the the topography there. Um the dimensions on these um classroom trailer pods uh are based on the Stafford um models modulars that that we walk through that you walk through and

132are comprised of four classrooms in each of those boxes. So if you're looking at a total of eight class really only need two two of those boxes and sorry and to the right uh the other white building um from the aerial image is the community center. So, can I stand up and be a little bit like Vanna for a minute just to make sure I'm with you since this is hot off the press? I need a ruler. So, the these Can you Yep. I want to hear what you're saying. The bottom two are not reasonable. No, those are reasonable. It's these two. Those two are not reasonable. So, the two by the parking lot, the lowest ones, those two are Yep. Those two are asphalt area. Those two are asphalt. Those two are the basketball

133asphalt area as well as those three at the top. The elevation from the top top one two three coming down are able to be utilized in the area based on the elevation of the um land. These bottom two out of the row of five are not allowed because of the severe drop off in the um terrain topography. Um with that the other areas have the asphalt so they would remove they would lose the play space basically on those as um Mr. Pearl mentioned each of these are just showing an example for the school board. Um they are the four classroom units each. So of course there are significantly more placed on this than what we would need at this time. Just showing different areas. So this cluster reflects eight classrooms. Yes, the cluster that you're

134referring to has eight classrooms. And I will say the bottom left four, any of those four probably would be the ideal location based on indoor restrooms. Mr. Chair, sure. Do we have existing fence? I I I'm having senior moment on. Isn't there a fence on the this side? You know, you've got the bottom two drop off. You come all the way the green roof buildings. Isn't there a fence in there somewhere? We do have existing fence around the perimeter. There is in between the um community center and that right side of the building. There is a gate there to prevent between the two buildings. There is a gate to prevent traffic from coming through. However, it is not sealed off by actual fence. Okay. So, my I guess my question is the required fencing around

135we would still need to provide to add additional fencing and we're actually looking at adding additional fencing at this time. And the also in that area and the outdoor basketball court, is that what we're losing? Yes. Based on this scenario, those two right up against the um I believe the I guess the in wing there, the two against there would um remove the basketball court area. So, do we have access? Sorry. But do would we still have, you know, joint user agreement with uh the county to use the gym uh at the community center? I will use a term that I'm not a fan of, but that is a gentleman's agreement. There is no memorandum of understanding associated with the gymnasium, but I have consulted with Mr. Collie and we work in tandem with very

136little difficulty. Um, parks and wreck and the bowling green staff communicate regularly. I think we would agree that that that's a need. We we would need to do that. The continued use of the gymnasium. Oh, most definitely. And whatnot. Oh, absolutely. And I believe that other piece is um a a playground as well. So you have the black top, the basketball um court, but then to the left is a smaller playground area. Right. I think that's where we determined that the knockout wall That's right. perhaps would be for those two classrooms if my memory is serving me correctly. Yes. the placement of it's the um prek playground. Yes. Um the placement of that playground, these two trailers could certainly be they are below that area. So the um playground would not be impacted. They're further

137towards the closer to the building. The pre the prek playground is right up against that building, right? Kind of in that little It's where the sign up building. Yes. So, I think that'll be something for us to look at, too. Whatever. Um, this was very helpful. Thank you. Wherever um placement is decided because you're putting instructional spaces right beside a playground and you're losing a playground for the littles and the basketball court for the older children as well. So, we may need to look at shifting outdoor places that's age appropriate. K12, K5. As we're looking at this as well, when Mark and I walked it this afternoon, um if you look at the legend down in the bottom lefthand corner, north is up on this. So, west is to your left. Um if you look

138at the southwest corner, those two that are on the asphalt pad outside of that part of the building. That is where the addition would go if we're looking at long-term plans. So, if we put a learning cottage in the way of construction, we're going to be coming back and moving it as well. I know one of the board members at our last workshop had also mentioned something about the gym. The gym would be in your northeast corner, um, which would be taking up at least the top spot on that. So that would be your construction zone right there for where the arrow is now. And it would extend into that first learning cottage as well. So that leaves us about three four spaces that are readily available for placement in that area as we look

139at long-term solutions as well. So thank you for that, Mr. Cwell. I I am not a fan of making a short term or bridge plan without the long term in mind. That is very good. But now, have we decided how if we're going to need all of these? Is is that what we're saying? We will not need all of those. There are four units within each of those rectangular representations. So, realistically, what what do we need? Two, three. We were indicating two would be more than plenty. So, we're getting way into the weed, so I apologize. Uh so we could still if we uh chose the northeast uh um sites, we could still potentially use the bottom two. Absolutely. And maintain a long-term perspective. Correct. We could do that. Absolutely. if the board opted that

140adding a permanent addition onto Bowling Green is a right size fit for that location. Yes. Now, before we move into the glass wall conversation, I do want u Mrs. Stevens to cover um information that we gleaned from King George um in relation to their past bond from last year, but also in relation to their their 10 units that they have secured for their elementary school. King George currently has a learning cottage complex of 10 units. They are 12 by60 units. The cost of those they purchased those units um last year was $986,48. They purchased those from Modular Genius was the vendor. Um they they passed a bond at the bond referendum this past November and are in the process of moving down with building construction, expanding their facilities. So, this is a temporary item at

141PTOIC Elementary. Um, that can also be viewed, but they purchased them because often we're hearing that purchasing them is more physically sound than leasing them. I have a question. So, if we were to purchase then as we look at other long-term, could we then move them where we need them to be? Absolutely. These are modular units, so they are built to be able to go down the road um with that and we could certainly be able to unhook them, separate them, prepare them for travel um or transport and place them out in a new location, which is actually a really valid point. I'm hadn't thought about it from that angle, Dr. Rollins fells. But if you think about the order of priorities based on the demographic data, our most immediate need is the elementary capacity.

142Then by the end of that third or fourth year of year zero through three, we have the middle school concern. And then beyond that, beyond year three, as long as we're not at that high growth level, the high school comes into play. So you could almost scaffold a purchase trailer scenario and have a strategic plan to shift those forward. And I I'll yield to Mark. I don't know if that's something you've seen happen in other localities before or so that's a really good point. So I'd be interested in the math on that. I'd be interested to know with the modular the flex spaces um because they're not any local if there if the cost to transport them here then outweigh the benefit of that. Um yes. So I will say I will say typically the

143larger costs assuming that are um assumed by the school division with regard to any trailer is it is maintenance. And I would say that from a pers you're going to the bang for the buck is going to come where you can determine how many years you really are planning on keeping them. If you're going to if you're if it's really a threey year time frame that you're looking to cover with regard to increased enrollment, the lease option is probably a better option. If you're going to keep them for 10 plus years, then the purchase is probably and so if you're looking at putting them at the elementary schools while a new elementary school is being built to take care of that future long-term and grow enrollment growth and then shift those trailers to the middle

144school and the high school respectively to cover the growth in years three through five, six, seven until those additions are put on, then purchasing is probably a good idea. Yeah, Mr. Chair, Just we just want to make sure that we also keep in mind the things that get us in trouble in the uh the staff the staffer lease furniture still has to be procured right if if when we get them. So so that entire suite of you know furniture and things of that nature we need to make sure we capture that. It is part of the lease I think but that's kind of costly too but we just can't lose lose cost. Absolutely. There's a lot of soft costs that we will also have to include in this calculation. We will do a break even

145analysis based on the um purchase versus lease um in looking at it once we know which ones to head into. So certainly doing those all of those calculations. The fencing was one of the large portions that Stafford spoke about. fencing is expensive. Um, so that is very large. And then also the concrete footers. There's 70 footers under one of those complex or one of one of those four classroom complexes. And the wait time for cement is not is um so certainly and um so we want to certainly be able to have some decisions to be able to start moving forward. Another item that has not been mentioned tonight that will be significant. We will have to be working with RECC um in in getting electric to these areas. Um that can sometimes significantly cause a

146wait time um with that. So the sooner we can start rolling forward the better um certainly in in making all of this tie together. What is the major difference between the flex unit and the trailers that we looked at in in in Stafford? Absolutely. They are two different units. It looks like more like the flex unit is like a conx box is kind of what it looks like. Um they and you can add like it's kind of like Legos. You can kind of add each little Lego on. You can add a restroom on. You can add a cafeteria. Um, so they're a different type unit. They're not as tall. Like you don't have to set them up as high because they're just being sat on pavement. So very much like a shipping container is kind

147of what they look like in the form of the design. They don't look like that on the outside, but um that's kind of the structure of it. Okay. And that durability as well as the life expectancy. Absolutely. Those are very durable from what we're seeing. um in in that again back to the same concept of a shipping container. They're a metal outside. Absolutely. I would add to that from a cost perspective, the trailers versus the flex classrooms because they're up on footers and peers probably longer to install and more costly. And I've been running some estimates over here in my head just with the highlighted sheet. And so outright it looks as if the conics option is more costly. But then when you start adding in the concrete footers and Dr. Hubard's point about accessibility

148to concrete vendors, those are other factors that we definitely want to consider. we need to really understand what the cost associated with the footers would be because when you look at the 800 square foot um willscott model if you're paying $3500 a month and you multiply that by 12 that's $42,000 a year plus you add in the $17750 for delivery and installation as a onetime cost and the onetime removal and dismantle cost of $11,285. And that first year alone runs around $71,035 without any of those ancillary costs that might need to go into the um completion of the installation. Not to check your math in public. Go for it. All right. But does that include you? We've got the rental pricing, you know, with the furniture and everything that goes inside. Is that part of

149it? It is not included in my numbers because we may not need that. Dr. Hubard, we're in the process of looking at year-end money, looking at whether or not we can purchase furniture and if we can purchase furniture, we might be able to shift furniture out. So, that's not a given at this point, but it's definitely something that we've captured in our notes so we don't lose sight of that potential cost. But then when you multiply, if we we have this for four years, years 0, one, two, and three, then you have an additional $126,000 cost. So you're adding 126 and 71,000 together and that would be the cost of a lease of this conx box approach versus if we know that a trailer costs $100,000 approximately is the cost of the footers and anything

150we need to do for safety is it equivalent or is there a a better savings in the trailer approach the traditional trailer model and then with the understanding that that is portable and could be scaffolded forward. I don't know those are things we'll solidify and and bring back as much as possible on Monday. So is the question here so we can kind of get up out of the weeds a little bit and give staff further direction. Are we deciding to do trailers or flex classrooms as an option as opposed to putting teachers on carts? So, if we do the learning cottage option, does that give people a more permanent home for their instruction versus mobile? Yeah, the answer to that is yes, it does give people a more permanent home. also addresses the programmatic capacity

151issue because even if we put art or music or both on a cart, those would become classrooms and we still would have the intervention remediation English language learner the service model concerns in terms of location. So those wouldn't be rectified unless we went ahead and were able to do the glass wall enclosures. And even that won't work for all of the spaces that I identified. You had asked how many um intervention spaces are in the hallway. We've got two outside of the cafeteria, one in the back right corner of the library, one outside in the hall and the art room of the art room. We have the space that Miss Golden, we've all seen her sitting there. Um we have one little nook that's over in the prek corner that's kind of um in front

152of the the employee restroom. And then we have the OT space. And that's from the top of my head. And so all of those seven to eight spaces would not be addressed potentially by the glass enclosures because we would have to work with the fire marshall and verify that indeed putting a permanent wall is permitted and not becoming prohibitive. So, I'm sorry. So, just to be clear, if we were to um marry 32 and 33, it wouldn't meet our goals um with respect to zero through three years at Bowling Green. Can you repeat that for me one more time? Sure. If we combine the option to the glass partition walls option with the art music on on cart, it wouldn't it those two in in tandem would not accomplish our goals. um from 0 to

153three with respect to Bowling Elementary, it would not cover years 0 to three. It would be a viable option for 2526, okay? Which would then afford us more time to do something that may require a more extensive timeline for 2627. Now, that that could be at that point we're buying Stafford trailers and we're, you know, working through that process. It could be we're going with a different vendor. it would give us more time to move in that direction. But this would be um what I would consider a band-aid approach. Right? This is us. We started this process last January of 2024 talking about this as a school board and you know we're here now and and in these um last options for decision making. Sure. Understood. I I I'll be honest with you. I'm I'm

154still skeptical that either the trailer purchase installation and or the flex classroom purchase installation would be viable for 2526 uh given all the impediments that we've already discussed to include how we're going to pay for it. Are they available and the electric issue? I mean we're at May 6th and and the new school year begins in the middle of August. So I want to be comfortable knowing that if those two options are available that we have a consensus on how to move forward with respect to 2526. Mr. Chairman to Mr. Fortune's point um I'm wondering if we can move forward with the consensus seeking that Mr. Fortune asks for. So, you know, in terms of priority, would we rather look at trailers? Are trailers on the table at all? And I think staff is saying

155we need to give them a yes or a no and then which type of trailer we've equipped them with lots of questions that they can then take the next step and come back with. But if we're saying we don't, thank you for sharing, but we don't want trailers. I think that's the guidance that they need. Question. Go ahead. Question. My thought was that this presentation uh about trailers was because there weren't any other viable options short-term or long-term. If I miss If if I'm misunderstanding that at this juncture, uh please please correct correct me. I mean I I mean if I'm off if you're asking me my understanding is tonight there are different pieces to this puzzle all of which will require more information. But there are decisions that we need to make so that

156staff knows how to best spend their time. We need to give the vision so that they can operationalize it. So if it's not a trailer, it's partition um as a must and classrooms on carts. That's my that's my understanding as well. Um I I I because of the time crunch that we're in, we were saying that even if funds were available, we can't do an addition by August. Uh if the funds were available, we we can't build a a school. So we need to determine where these students are going to be sitting in August. So having said that, I I don't see how there's any other option right now. Even with the the glass walls and with the carts, we have to look at what that does to the academic program. uh we might be

157able to make that work but at what cost? I I think we have to think about the students. I think we have to think about the teachers. I think we have to think about morale in the building. All of these things help students to perform and they help teachers to perform. So having said that, I would think either trailers or the flex unit, I I'm personally think we don't really have a whole lot of choice um in that. Yeah, I would agree, but I would I would support that for sure, but I'm I'm just skeptical that they will be ready by the middle of August based on all the work that needs to be done and the groundwork, if you will, that needs to be done with respect to getting financial support. Well, and I

158think there may need to be a combination of both of those plans. Meaning it may be understood that for the first semester we have art and music or whatever resource is identified to be on a cart and we continue to do intervention enrichment either as is or we invest in some of the glass enclosures where they are permitted through the fire marshall's um advisement and then that gives us until winter break and then come January one, if we were able to make sure that we had a time then that yielded the number of of learning cottages we identify that are fully installed, we could then transition at that time. So, so we we have the latitude to to backwards plan. We simply, as Dr. Rollins Feld said, "We want to make sure our time is

159spent doing the work that aligns with what your mission and vision are for this, but also I think worthy of stating out loud is we are building a plan that is going to get us to the end of the zero to3 period. So what I believe that you are insinuating and please correct me if I'm wrong is that we are collectively of the mindset that we will be moving forward with the recommendation of the building of a new elementary school. And that is something that hasn't been stated tonight, but I think is worthy of putting out into the environment because we wouldn't be doing this these efforts if that wasn't the outcome or there wasn't an alternative outcome that we had already identified. Am I hearing that that is the approach that the board is

160going to move forward with? Because right is critical. We have an at promise population at Bowling Green. We're already at 850 students is adding and I think the what is the high growth classroom number at Bowling Green specifically in that 10year span. You can do it. Will you do that for me and let us know? I I would be very concerned at continuing momentum towards elementary schools that surpass 750 800 capacity that is not researchbased. And so the rightsize component of elementaryaries is essential in decision making. Mr. Chair, yes. Uh I would would agree but I I think the priority needs to be addressing 25 26 what issues or what um what we can actually do inside each of the facilities now whether it's glass partition um or some of the other mitigating solutions that

161the the staff has come up with continue to pursue uh the the module as you figure out whether it's cost effective to get the the the trailer or the uh Thank you. That that one uh figure out whether or not that is uh which one is cost effective um and then we continue to proceed. I think everyone uh recognizes that there's going to be a need for another school and that is actually that will be the instate uh down the road. Um I just don't want us to get lost in too lost in that argument and lose sight of what's right here in front of us right now which is 2526. Uh Mr. Chair, I would um and I I appreciate your point, Dr. covered, but uh quote unquote selling this temporary um option to

162my constituents, I would be more comfortable and they will be more comfortable also knowing that this is a temporary option meaning that there is a permanent option at the end of the road which um we have I think we've agreed after three years it's a new elementary school. you know what makes it temporary if you don't have a a a consensus with respect to where we're going. So I would you know couch my argument that we need to do this interim measure uh under the agreement that we now recognize that we need an elementary school and that's the end goal and that's why we're praying for patience with respect to trailers uh partitions etc. So, if I'm understanding you correctly, um, we need to be prepared to tell our constituents what the near-term plan is,

163which is what we're discussing right here, and what our uh data has suggested that we will require to meet uh growth a uh a new elementary school. Absolutely. Otherwise, to me, you know, what we're agreeing to tonight with respect to the short-term plan doesn't say on short term if we don't have the long-term or the midterm plan agreed upon or or end goal agreed upon. Of course, there's work um you know in the interim period, but uh I wouldn't want this to sound like an open-ended solution. Any other comments? If not, a motion would be in order. A motion for so to determine the direction that we want to go. Uh are we saying we want to go in the direction of either a trailer or a flex or building uh to meet the present

164needs? If that is possible, uh if if if it turns out that we can't get the flex unit by August, then certainly we would have to fall back on the the the uh inside of the building, the the carts or the use of the wood the glass are partitions. Uh and in other words, what I'm trying to say is that that would give us something concrete. We we want the flex unit or the trailer, whichever one turns out to be, you know, most effective. But if it is determined that that is not the case, then we would go with the uh glass partition and the use of carts. And all of this is contingent on the fact that we're going to build um an elementary school. So a qu question, Mr. Chair. So are you

165you're saying that um a motion you would entertain a motion that uh provides prioritization of effort to the school staff for near-term long-term and that prioritization is uh meeting the immediate uh 25 26 um uh issues. with capacity. Uh continuing to look at options to expand with the uh the two uh cottage proposals that we have. Uh and the third priority is to continue uh developing uh proposals and plans for a new school. That's the way I see it. Um, I don't know if that's what you all were thinking, if the other board members were thinking in that direction or not, but that's what I gleaned from what the comments made by board members. Mr. Mr. Pro, could you please remind um us all what the life cycle is from the year of plan development

166to the establishment of a new facility? like what is the duration of an elementary project? So, a little bit of it depends on the size of the school that you're going to build, but um from the moment that you engage a the design team, it can probably take anywhere from 9 to 12 months for design and then it's probably in the 24 to 30 month time period for construction depending on size. I think the last time we had talked we were looking at 650 versus 450. So if it went down to 450 you could probably cut six months off of construction if I may. But a plan any plan or any motion that we make has to be a doable plan on the construction the design very doable on financing it maybe not so much.

167So we want everyone to get to Yes. So, if we're going to try to do this in a a a you know, a a smaller amount of time, we will find ourselves back in a box where the answer is going to be, you know, we don't have the borrowing power to do this. I do want to respond to that because I understand what you are sharing and was sitting in the audience at the board of supervisor meeting when Davenport reported some of the financials associated with the county's um funding streams and borrowing power and bond rating. If we permit borrowing power to drive this board's decision, we are saying that we are going to be comfortable with years 0 through 4 because I think it was 2029 that that borrowing capacity was elevated. that we're

168going to be comfortable with learning cottages until 2029 and then we'll have borrowing power and it will take three to four years to build an elementary school from 29 29 forward which would put us in 2033 if I is that correct 2033 and at that point we will also be over well over capacity at the middle school and well over capacity at the high school. So, I just want to be really transparent. I understand the the position that the county is in, but we are going to have to come to the table and talk about some innovative borrowing practices, whether that's through VPSA or other government programming. We don't have the luxury of time. We're the fourth largest growing county in the Commonwealth. And we also want to talk about data centers. If data centers

169are becoming a reality, is there an opportunity for anou where that funding is earmarked for schools? I mean, these are conversations that we have requested a meeting this morning with the county administrator to have. We don't have the gift of wait and see. We have the in is full and it's becoming more full and we can't wait until the borrowing power becomes a reality because then we have four more years until the building is truly available for a ribbon cutting. Mr. Chairman, if I may, um, and I agree with both sides of this conversation, and I think what's helpful for us is, and I'm not speaking for anybody's board, I'm speaking for Jawanda. When I listen to the conversation, I think that there is comfortability, let's use that word, with a new elementary school. What

170I'm hearing you say as our superintendent is we you need to not assume that that is a priority for us. That's one. And two, when we have sat in joint board meetings, the last one in particular, every board member was asked, "What do you want to see as a priority?" So, I'm going to take it back to Mr. Fortune's point this short term, and I've said it a hundred times, how do you have a bridge plan if you don't know what you're bridging to? I am willing to say that, Mr. Chairman, if you want a motion, perhaps we need to decide as a vote. So, it is documented consensus and not assumption of comfortability that this board at this point in time agrees that a new elementary school is our priority and bridge plans are

171being created or discussed to get us to that point. And I'll tell you why I say that. Not just as an elected official, but I taught. And I have taught when stuff was on a cart. And I have taught when you do what you got to do. If you want people to stay on board, and we pride ourselves in taking care of our people, then you give them a vision so they know where they're going. Because teachers would be willing to go on a cart if they knew that something else was coming. and and having grown up here and be invested in this community like everyone else, we as decision makers have to make long-term, not shortsighted conversations. It sets us up to be stuck for generations. So, I'm willing to make the motion, if

172that is appropriate, that we make our our documented um consensus of this board that a new elementary school is a priority based on demographic and facility needs and all things that we are discussing. Our long-term is an elementary school. Period. Hard stop. Can I request a modification that is a shortterm plan, not a long-term plan, correct? Because the the options that we've been talking about are a bridge plan, but the shortterm plan is that at the end of year 0 to three, right? Because that's what the data is telling us is our driving need. M Mr. Chairman, motion's been made. I'm seconding the motion. Okay. It's been moved and second that a new elementary school, okay, is our shortterm plan. I know I said a whole lot of words. Let me clean it up for

173the documentation. I got it. Okay. But I need the record to have it. Okay. Okay. Motion's been made. All right. Is there is there discussion? If not, call for the vote. We're good. Yeah, we short-term plan a new elementary school and the bridge plan is that as part of the motion the motion well the motion is only short-term plan short-term plan is a new elementary school hard stop. How you going to tell me how I thought you said hard start. That's what you said. Hard stop. Thank you. Does your motion stand, Dr. H? I mean, does your second stand? Yes, the second stands. Thank you. Okay, Mrs. Sears, thank you. I, Dr. Hubard, I. Dr. Rollins Fels, I, Mr. Fortune, I, Mr. Taylor, I. And the motion carries. Now, do we need a motion for

174the trailers? uh for the do we do we need a motion for to to move forward with the trailers? We would appreciate great clarity in your directives to the administrative team on how to proceed in the bridge plan for 2526. Okay. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion that we uh accept the um internal measures. Uh do I need to be detailed with the measures? The glass ceiling. Uh the um what else was there? Glass ceiling. Trails. Okay, hold on. The the carts uh the 2526 uh uh efforts. Help me with continued investigation of trailers, flex classrooms, glass partitions, and resources on a cart. What I what I'm trying to do is to give us direction for the immediate 2526, which is more likely the glass partitions uh and those internal pieces. continue planning

175for uh uh and looking for cost estimates for the two proposed uh modular or uh whatever we're calling them uh facilities. Does that make sense? Continued investigation of trailers. A continued investigation of trailers. Thank you for stop. Hard stop. All right. Is it has been uh moved and properly second? Second. Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. It has been moved and properly second that we would continue the investigation of trailers and uh glass partitions, carts, and the the flex type buildings. All in fa as a part of our bridge plan. Right. All in favor. No. Mrs. Sears. We did that already. I Dr. Hubard. I. Dr. Rollins spells. I. Mr. Fortune. I. Mr. Taylor. I. May I ask a clarifying question? Can those same motions be applied to Lewis and Clark? We've spent the majority of

176our time talking about Bowling Green because their immediate need is more comprehensive than Lewis and Clark's, but Lewis and Clark is over a thousand students. They are going to based on enrollment data from the demographic study. They will need six trailers for moderate growth by the end of the short-term period year 0 to three or nine trailers for high growth. Okay. Now, keeping in mind that they have two art and two music classrooms. So, they have a bit more flexibility. That's four classrooms there. We could do a similar model with with um items or classrooms on a cart. And so, embrace some of those same measures that you just approved to outline a plan for Lewis and Clark should they need another classroom. Right now, we don't know if their enrollment numbers will require that,

177but it's predicted that they will based on the rooftops and the demographic study. So, are you comfortable with us applying some of those same measures from Bowling Green to Lewis and Clark? Well, I I think and maybe I'm wrong, I think it goes without saying because we did not specify Bowling Green Elementary, correct? We just said the long-term plan and the bridge plan. So I that would automatically include okay and so I do want you to be aware that Mr. Pro has also drawn a map associated with uh learning cottage placement at Lewis and Clark as well. Okay. So up on correct nine classrooms. It would Yes, it would require nine classrooms. Um, so you'll see here on on the map we have them behind the larger playground area. Um, one, two, three, four. That's

178six units times four, so 24 classrooms. Just so um you can see that one out um by the current bus loop. Another one that is near or actually is that in the prek playground there or in between it up next to the fence not okay so out by the prek playground and then additional ones out towards the um near that hill I guess behind or in front to the side of Louisis and Clark um by I believe that is Merryweather yes um street which I think it's very evident that we would be sensitive to the architectural sensitivity of the community because one of these sides of the building would be very close to homes that are directly across the street versus the other options would be on when you're facing the building on the right

179hand side which would be less intrusive. And so while this is being posted publicly for everyone to see, please know these are just options that we know we have the space to accommodate, but we would absolutely work with the HOA should we need to do this in the future. So could I recommend that anything you put up like this has optional somewhere on it so folks don't think this is a done deal? Absolutely. we can modify that and make sure and we honestly could remove some of them because this is an exa it is um I'll use the word exacerbation right like if each of these units represents four classrooms we don't want to be misleading in the quantity that that we may need so we'll we'll do that work Dr. Huburn the white broken

180line uh is the perimeter is there a fence We were attempting to keep the edges of those trailers at close to the 100 foot mark so that that 300 foot path of travel from the trailer to the inside of the building restroom was achievable. We have not done those specific calculations yet, but we felt like with 200 feet within the building, we were pretty clo we would be able to meet any restroom. And our property line is where I would say up close to the tree line. So we have an easement of I'm assuming why am I asking this is you know just enough separation from uh access you know someone you know meandering in especially uh from a wooded area like that but yeah Mr. approach. Do you have any um concerns with the

181topography with this map as you pointed out with Bowling Green? You know, I did not walk the site today like I did Bowling Green, but I would say on the left side from Merryweather down to the uh prek um uh playground area, there is a slight elevation change. Um, and based on the comments with regard to the homeowners adjacent to I would not recommend that. That would be probably one of my last recommendations in terms of where on the site to locate those cottages or trailers. Um, I just was really trying to show that there was many options. Yeah. No, thank you. That's you gave us what we needed. Otherwise, what typically happens is then we start creating hypothetical. What about here? You didn't know there Um would it help um Dr. Calver if the

182board made a decision about not putting something on the left hand side of this? Does that help? It does. Absolutely. I think not only the left side that was noted, but the far back left appears to be substantially isolated in the at the top of the map. And so I would I would dare say, you know, eliminating those one, two, three, four, five, six units would be ideal and we could focus on that right side of the map for placement in the future when the need develops. So the eastern uh the eastern uh proposal is what we would be making a motion to support uh and doing away with the the north and the northwest um um potential sites. Thank you, Marine Hubard. Absolutely appreciate the cardinal directions. Yes, sir. Now, just a sidebar question.

183Has has the question of property value uh surfaced? We have trailers that has a tendency to kind of impact. No one has mentioned any of that. Property value was not discussed um in relation to trailer placement. They they believe as we shared that this would be a temporary bridge plan and they were very relieved by the forthcoming idea of a new elementary school because of course they are living on a daily basis the expansions that are occurring and the traffic congestion uh and you know with South River still building out and Pendleton still building out you know they're experiencing that it's more of a it's more of a concern for us at Lewis and Clark that is Bowling Green because at Bowling Green we're pretty much on our own correct property and we don't really

184have the It's a different dynamic for sure. Exactly. So that's why it's important to take into consideration Mr. and that really is why the HOA member was invited in Lady Smith. But I very much appreciate the idea of extending to Bowling Green despite the fact that it's not a a a neighborhood centered building. We still want that input. Keep them in the loop please. Yes sir. We are basically saying the far left side of Louiswis and Clark would be not on the table as far as trailer. Mr. Chairman, I'd be willing to phrase that as a motion because I think that's going to help with what does the flex pod work, what works, how much foot, all that stuff. Okay. So, I'd put that in a motion. Okay. Is there a second? Second. Okay. Uh

185moved and second that basically the far left side of Lewis and Clark would not be an option for the placement of trailers. All in favor? Go ahead. You can call for the vote. Mrs. Sears I. Dr. Hubard I. Dr. Rollins Fells I. Mr. Ta Mr. Fortune abstain. Mr. Taylor I. And the motion carries. Okay. Um let's uh that takes us to it does it does bring us to um item three and item four. I do want to inquire. It is 8:35. I we certainly can review these in preparation for Monday. We can table these for now. We can keep moving. Does anyone need a a restroom break? Just want to make sure we are aware of the collective group. Well, I I if I may, I don't have a problem of tableing them. We've we've

186really talked about the short term uh the bridge plan and we put a motion in effect uh as to what that plan would be. And we also talked about the long-term uh and we put a motion in effect as to what that would be. So, I'm not saying we don't need to discuss these, but I think we could, unless the board objects, we could put these on the agenda for the work session, maybe before uh before the regular meeting on Monday, they could be added, if if there's no objection, I mean, there there are a large number of topics associated with years zero through three. I can read those aloud for the the good of the group and then you all can make a decision. Is that helpful? Does the board is that okay with

187the board? That's fine. Mr. Chairman, are we before we go to three and four, are you good with the instruction that staff needs for item two? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Thank you so much for that, Mr. Caldwell. did want to share that when it comes to the glass partitions, I have met with a contractor on those and we are first in at a ROM figure of 120,000 for all six locations within the school. So, just to keep that in the back of your mind. So, and you have not yet had an opportunity to work with the fire marshal to verify had conversations with the with the state fire marshal. A lot of it's going to come back to local code compliance. Okay. Um through the permitting office. Um a lot of these are temporary measures. Um

188so that's al also into account on what we're putting in the building. Um I did meet with Mark in the areas today and we are looking at changing the library up a little bit. Um but I'll bring that back to everybody, you know, all stakeholders once we go down that road as well. So thank you. And I would just add with the trailers, um, my opinion is to look at, I think we settled at five five classroom spaces equivalent or or six if it needs to be done in an even number. Correct. Okay. And then the priority be to continue to work towards that. and and I'd love to hear especially um your take on it being in the classroom. Um I it it to me it feels better to if we need to put

189teachers on a cart for that to be very short term. And I say that because I think music is in an appropriate place. It's on the stage. I think art is in an appropriate place. Um, and by no means do I want our arts to be slighted because this is the stage and age where our kids really need it. So, I would be more in favor of having them having somebody or however you configure it, in a trailer, whatever that needs to look like so that teachers can be stationary, they can plan, they're not having to move all around and where their resources and all of that. I think that's how we take care of our people. So, that would be the priority. and anything else be a shortterm if the trailers aren't there in

190time. What's your take on that? I would agree. I don't love the idea at all of being on a cart because not only is it difficult teaching wise, but also you think of art. Okay, now the kids are going to have all the supplies, all the paper, where's that stuff going to go now? It's taking up more space in their classroom that they could be using for something else. So that is I completely agree with you Dr. Rollins House. What do you think about the current classroom placement? I'm I'm in favor of leaving them if possible where they are and moving the other pieces around because it is an important from a programmatic standpoint. To be clear, I don't know that we would be moving art and music out to a trailer. If we're if

191we're able to get trailers at the beginning of the school year in place, they would remain in their current classrooms because their rooms are not ideal locations for a a K5 classroom. It certainly can service in that capacity in a shortterm manner, but they are outfitted for exactly what their current purpose is. And so that that would be my dream would be to be able to operationalize the learning cottages, take a grade level cluster, place them out there, and then they would be able to team together, and then we would leave our resource staff where they are, and some of the interventionists could go into those classrooms, as well as that one class that we know has to be moved because they're only 13 students deep due to the class of the side, the the

192size of the classroom. So, yes, ma'am. I am of that same mindset, and I would imagine the staff will be as well. Um, and again, we didn't want to go and sit hip-to-hip with any of our classroom teachers or any of our administrators and and have conversation that would be premature. But now that we have these motions, this week we will be at both Lewis and Clark and Bowling Green and we will be talking with anyone that has the potential of being impacted so they feel fully informed and then they can give us feedback or options to consider before we go live. Um, and that's how we do business. Absolutely. And I think what I'm saying is you have said that and you've advocated, but the board needs to stand in agreement with that or

193not. And I don't know we have consensus there. Well, I guess my thoughts were and and certainly I I am in consensus with what you're saying. Uh I I kind of thought that when we talked about the flex type module, I thought that was a little bit more um uh able to meet the the deadline that we're talking about. And I may be wrong. I I knew that we would not be able to do trailers uh the traditional trailers uh by August, but I was of the impression that it's a little different with the flex uh buildings and maybe they would be um you know able to to uh to meet that need. Uh but what I would say is if we need a motion to do that uh to what you said, we could

194we could certainly do that. what the superintendent as far as I'm concerned has the right to to make that decision. I mean she is our instructional leader and I would think that you would uh do the best thing for the situation at the time. So I think also empowering the building and the leaders and the teams within to share their voice and develop a plan. You have six modulars that are learning cottages and you can breathe life into them however you choose as long as we accomplish A, B, C, and D. We give them a few things to achieve and you let them determine what is the best plan because I can brainstorm something with our central office team, but they're the boots on the ground and this is where they have ownership and a

195level of accountability over a less than ideal scenario. That's right, Mr. Chair. I would think, you know, the buyin that is going to be required for whatever plan it comes up with, you're going to have to have uh troops on the ground, which is are the principles that are in charge of those uh campuses, as well as teachers, whether it's Mrs. Golden, whether it is u uh the the athletics or the choir director, they have got to have a voice in this conversation because we've had plenty of conversations with this uh with a few uh family members out uh I think we owe it to the the the staff uh at every level to provide input, pros and cons. Uh but we have to have their buy in because they are in those trenches every

196single day. They are the ones who make it work and they are the ones who are going to make it work. So I don't you know uh discount you know the leadership's uh guidance and whatnot but I would strongly encourage um that we have buyin at at those levels. Absolutely. And if I was not clear that is what I'm saying. My point as a board is don't give them two and a half classrooms to work with. We need to approve enough and plan to purchase enough trailers where it can be adaptive. And I think it's important that staff hears that in these conversations so we we keep our we take care of our folks. That's what I'm saying. What's if I may uh do we have a staff representative? um from each school on on

197these we use our teacher advisory committee um that is our novice teacher of the year and our teacher of the year to consult with any topic that comes up. We have not created an infrastructure committee because there were so many unanswered options and we were obviously in the factf finding. Everything from the demographic study to the facility study to the appraisals to all of that was factf finding so we could determine what options may even be viable or determine not viable. So now that we have some clear direction, we can go ahead and create an infrastructure team where we'll get that um teacher level, support staff level, administrative level buyin around the things that you've given us um clear direction to delve deeply into. So yes, I don't believe we need a a motion on

198that. I think that's just what we do and I think there's good understanding between the governance and the administration component of that specific topic. So, okay, to cover out loud and then have you make a decision about how you'd like to proceed. So, we've we've come up with bridge plan options that we will continue to to um investigate. But for the true shortterm period of year 0 through three, item A is a new elementary school. We have identified for you the properties that we are aware of that are available in the county either through school boardowned property or profered property through the county. So, I'll list those for you. In Pendleton, there is a land profer. In Carmel Church Station, there is a land profer. We own the corner of 207 and three Devil's Jump.

199There is a land profer in Belmont. And of course, we listed because it is factual that there is a school profer in Haymount. Haymount is the the um home development that has permits approved but does not have the infrastructure for the development to move forward. So we do not believe that that will be something that occurs in in likely any of our watches right that might be 10 15 years down the road if it ever um gets lifted by a developer. So that is everything that we have, but I am going to turn it over to Marca to talk about a couple of other details um that are included in documents as well as an additional note. Thank you. So currently my understanding of the Pendleton profer the land is available could be built at

200at any time. It is 20 acres of land. The caramel caramel church station is a land profer. It's identified in the map in the documents. It is the section nine in red. Um that development has a lot of items that would have to transpire prior to gaining access to um that land. Um and it the land parcel is 40 acres. However, it can be used for county offices, library, community center, SPCA or animal rescue facility, district waste transfer station, an elementary or a middle school, and recreational facilities. The um profer at Belmont had been recently changed. That profer has been changed to a um county recreational profer. So, it's the county can determine um and it says school, it's county, school, recreational. So, the county can determine um the use of that proper. And then

201the last one for Haymount, as Dr. Calvaric mentioned, we do not believe that one would ever come to fruition. However, those profers are currently in the county for revision at this time. The developer is trying to make a revision to remove the school profer of building an actual school to a cash profer of a $8,000 figure per student. So a significantly reduced profer for that hey location. So the reason we listed those is we wanted to inquire with the board. When we have a joint meeting, you have come to consensus through motion and approval tonight that the the goal of our shortterm window of 0 to three years as an elementary school. Do you believe that using the data which you have on this heat map will help you narrow down one to two properties

202that you would like to indicate to the board of supervisors that we would like to entertain as sites for consideration? Do you as a board want to decide based on our demographic data and where we know students are coming from? Do you want to come to consensus before going into the board of supervisors joint meeting on one or two or three properties that you think would best serve as locations for an elementary school? So, are you asking us to make that decision tonight? That is up to the board, sir. And the reason I say that, well, that was why I asked a question. uh because I don't know I'm I'm not speaking for the board but I don't know if we are prepared to there's there's so much involved in the location of a school

203and uh you know I don't know how many people are are really familiar with Pendleton versus the other locations that have been noted here. Uh so it might be better to take this information into consideration, look at those uh different developments, maybe even talk to some people. I mean, if you if you know people in the area or whatever, uh because I wouldn't want us to make a a decision in haste and then find out that we initially made the wrong decision or or maybe the didn't make the best one. And and whatever decision we make, I'm sure there's going to be some group that will probably have an objection to it. If I were living in Pendleton, I'd want it there. Mr. Chair, if I may, um, a question. Is this solely our decision

204as to where, uh, the school, middle, elementary, whatever? Uh, our sole decision on where that school is to go or do we have to uh make a recommendation for the board of supervisors to approve that? I think I see those as the same and one, one. You as a board would educate yourself on each of these properties which can't be done tonight. Correct. Okay. And you would then as a board come to consensus on what you believe based on data and your touring of the properties, your knowledge of the properties and you as a board may say we feel most comfortable with A and B. and then you would make a recommendation to the board of supervisors and each of you would be able to justify why we have narrowed the playing field. Now the

205majority of these properties are county owned. So clearly that's going to be a conversation that we have in collaboration. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't come to the table having an understanding of what our priorities are. So, I want us to do that homework before we get to the table and have this conversation. It also involves redistricting. Every single one of these options revol revolves around redistricting. And so, those are other aspects that are are going to really involve community um input. So, just a huge component for us to to start wrapping our minds around. Mr. Chair, if I may, and I I totally concur with Dr. Calver's uh stance on the question and I I would just point um you know my colleagues to junior code 22.1-79 um piles and duties of this board.

206It does include the erecting, furnishing, equipping um of non and uh non-instructional operating of necessary school buildings etc. So I think it's our duty to do that due diligence to make a recommendation as to where we think on our property. Well, the school division we're Yeah. Well, well, we are charged with managing the school division in a way that best supports our students. And so, I'm not saying that we go at it alone for sure, but I think that is incumbent upon us to do our do our research to to um suggest where we think the school should be built based on our um our powers under the code. So, I just want to make sure I'm understanding the code correctly. So, you're you're saying that we have the authority as a school board under

207the code to pick one of these and build uh a school or we that code applies to property that we own. That gives us basically the right to do on our property what is necessary. We can't go ahead. I was going to say, well, we're charged with erecting erecting school buildings based on our ability and our our our duty to provide the proper buildings that are needed in order to educate the students of our county, whether that's on private on property owned by the county or owned by by the school division. So, I don't think that we should limit ourselves to looking at strictly property that we own um when we make a recommendation as to where we think the best place to erect a building. And that's just my opinion. An additional decision that

208needs to be made um moving forward is do we build a facility for moderate growth or high growth and the difference is I believe 450 students to 650 students. So that is an additional conversation based on our demographic data. So not only a recommendation that we have consensus on regarding properties, whether they're owned by us or not, we still need to make a recommendation and then have conversation and be able to justify our recommendation. And it's certainly within the board of supervisors right to say we are open to this property being used, but that shouldn't prevent us from doing our due diligence and bringing that recommendation forward. And the same would be true of the size of the facility that we believe we need. And I will share that in the community conversations with the

209first four comprehensive plans, it became very apparent, one of the trends that we received both in the surveys and the the qualitative comments that the community did not feel it was wise to build that 450. They felt that it would be shortsighted, that we do a ribbon cutting and we'd already be at capacity. Now whether or not that comes to fruition, none of us have a magic, you know, a crystal ball, but that is the feedback that we were receiving in those community meetings across the county. Mr. Chair, so uh Dr. Cover, so I'm understanding you say uh we should look to 650 as opposed to 4 the high the high end to kind of prepare ourselves for what may come down the road. Just kind of strategic planning. I don't know that I have

210shared that as a recommendation. I'm sharing it as a recommendation that the board needs to contemplate and look at the data and then also hear the the community voice both of what has already been provided but also as we move forward with deeper conversation about an elementary school. Check one one last question. I got to go back to this question. So the code, you know, you're the the attorney, so I I should defer to you, but um I thought the code app that section whatnot applied to schools uh school property, school boards and our purview, our domain over school specific uh direction property that is outside of that purview, I would think we'd have to work in partnership as opposed to Sure. Yes. I just say we we didn't and also the code allows us

211of course to purchase lease or or um acquire land by by contract. So there's a numerous there's numerous ways in which um we can make that recommendation. So the profer land that we're talking about is is that our our our land? All of the profered land is owned by the county and we are cognizant of that. And so it is our obligation to do our due diligence to research those properties alongside the county, talk with the planning department, go and visit those locations and then look at our heat map, look at the data analytics from the demographic study and make a decision regarding some general localities so that we can have a more narrowed focused conversation with the board of supervisors and say these are the reasons why we feel A, B, and C versus

212seven options, three options remain and these are the reasons why they may reject those rightfully so. They own the property, but I think we need to be equipped to justify a plan moving forward. Not to be determined tonight, but these I'm planting seeds of our next steps of work. Absolutely. And I and I would add Dr. Hubick, recall that um the supervisors wanted our options. Absolutely. when it came to facilities. So, in the same vein, I think we have an obligation to do this. Absolutely. I agree. I just I don't want us or anyone who's listening or or you know on the record saying that this we have the authority to just go say we're going to do this this or that, you know. No, that was in my as far as quoting the statute.

213I think one of the other things that we probably need to do too is to look at the recommended size of an elementary school. There's been lots of talk about that. We already have an elementary school that has a thousand students. I believe is 800. Is it 800 or a,000? Lewis and Clark is over a thousand and Bowling Green is over 800 which which does not is not the recommended size as far as student population is concerned. So I think that's something we need to look at. Do we want to build a school that's larger than it should be for right? It's just something to think about. I think from the last meeting with the county, the joint meeting, um there were several comments that led me to believe that they were also leaning more

214towards or some of them the larger school. And I think when we start talking about shared resources and I think one of the other comments was well if you build it and then you don't need it then you have all this empty space. But like right now the shared use of the community center when we look at that community health assessment all of those different things that help our community can be on the table when we look at the use of a school. So um I'm personally in favor of the high growth um the 650 right versus the 450 um because I think that just makes good sense. Um I think that's more fiscally responsible as well and again when we find that we have growth or we need swing space to move certain things

215around then we have that. Um so that's my first comment. My second comment is if you go back and listen to that joint meeting there were action items at the end and um one of the things that I specifically requested was that the county would come back and say here are options that we are aware of. here is how many acres it is, this is what this is. And they bring some of those options to the table as well because they may have knowledge of something that may not be on our radar. And then my third comment is while we have we're investing the time and we're in the trench with this. If there is a profer that include schools, why wouldn't we explore all of those options to gather the data while we're gathering

216the data so that at least we have it on record whether we need it for now or in the future. Absolutely. Um, and again, I think there may be some cost savings to that as well when you're looking at AM and you know, can we do maps and this sort of thing. So, if an opportunity exists for a school, I say we stick to our process of getting the research done, having all the facts on the table, and then being more equipped. I think if we just look at um magisterial districts and where we see dots on a heat map, I think the conversation will be railroaded into something that we don't even need because that's a distraction. I'd rather us say this is 20 acres on a 20 acre plot of land. This is

217the size school you could build and what kind of dollar figure and then move from there. That's that's just my opinion. Okay. So, I'm wondering if we worked with the county to develop a chart that had each of the profered properties plus our 2073 Devil's Jump property and the acreage that's available so it was all in one location. Um, if that would be beneficial for us moving forward, that's certainly a document that we could could work to put together. Is that something that you think would be beneficial? I definitely think it would help us to see where it's located and Okay, great. also that's right. It also uh puts I won't say the county in a box, but it'll provide the county with the opportunity to tell us, well, you're thinking that that is a

218profit for this when actuality we may have gone back in and made some adjustments or whatnot. We'll get true assessment of everything. I agree that that is a potential. I will share that Marca worked alongside the county to get the updated documents to provide to you today. So, those did come directly from the county, so they should be a reflection of what's accurate. Um, but we will definitely keep that in mind because this is a multi-year process. And so we try to be at every meeting where things um are occurring and we try to follow um planning commission activity and do the technical review committee meetings, but um we can't clone ourselves and so sometimes we're doubled up. So we'll we'll definitely make sure we're we're good with that. Um, and then just quickly, the

219only other things that I think we need to bundle in conversation as we come back to talk more about a new elementary school is the need for the expansion at the middle school and the deferred maintenance. Deferred maintenance isn't going to go away. We don't yet have an FY26 budget. So, we don't yet know if they are acknowledging the deferred maintenance concern and giving us more than they have historically. And we do know that um we submitted our CIP plan in December. And I think in April, the county administrator asked for us to resubmit the documents. And so, I don't want to interpret what that means. um but we do not yet have any insight as to the type of funding we will receive and you do have the seven-year history um to refer to.

220So those are big coals in the fire that we need probably another special called meeting to really spend time um planning for before we we come back to the table with the board of supervisors. Mr. Chairman, um if I may as a action item as well, one of the questions that was not resolved from the joint meeting and it was um uh Floyd's question um was about the CIP process. So, if we can just capture that for an agenda item. Um there was a question about what does that process look like? Um I know there have been some changes over the years and so if we can revisit that with intention that would be good. Um can I um share that the CIP process is co-owned so the county should be able to outline their

221process and their timeline and then we are lock step with what they outline. There are a number of measures that were in place historically upon the beginning of my time as superintendent and many of those are no longer in existence. So we can share our process which is very welldeveloped. Um, it begins over the summer with facility walks and it continues with submitted budget requests which then result in our spreadsheet which covers multi-year and we submit that into their system which I believe was new this year or modified last year and and then that's it. There's there's nothing else that occurs. We used to have a planning commission meeting. We used to have a meeting with the plan the director of planning. We used to have a meeting with the county administrator. We used to

222present to the board of supervisors. None of that is occurring any longer. Okay. So, thank you for that. And then maybe in our joint meeting, we can pick up with the other side. I think the second part of that and Mr. approach I look to you is there were um I'd be interested in putting facts and truth to deferred maintenance and comments made about whether or not things are at that place because of neglect or poor um management on our end. Um, and so you I know I've tried to put out some of those fires with saying that what you looked at in that you're talking mechanical, you're talking I'll let you have the question. I don't want to Well, I think I think when I originally u presented the results of the facility condition

223assessments, I very clearly indicated that the five schools that the school division has students in with the exception of Lotus Academy and Annex building, but the five major schools, the three elementaryaries, the middle school and the high school. If you took the annex, the school board office and Old Lady Smith or Lotus Academy out of the mix, those schools were being maintained very well. If you look at the overall deferred maintenance on those five schools, the school division has done a very good job at keeping the deferred maintenance numbers down over the years and probably to some degree purposely neglected those other three buildings because the students were predominantly in those five schools. But those are also the deferred maintenance numbers on those three buildings are really attributed to age versus the uh lack of

224any maintenance being done. I mean it you you can always say that it's also in combination with the amount of dollars that you need not coming in the door but a lot of it is age driven. I mean you've got plum underground plumbing systems that are more than 50 60 years old and they just start to decay. So, there's not a whole lot you can do about that. Can I Thank you. You know, all you need to do is drive down Main Street, Bowling Green, or or try to drive down Courthouse uh Street in Bowling Green, and you'll get a first class understanding of the the the age with our our our systems. Um, and that's going to cost forever in a day because um, sometimes we have to defer define our terms probably a

225bit more clearly than we have and not make assumptions that folks are understanding. Uh, we may want to go back and give a a quick I say lesson on what is deferred maintenance. What is it? You know, I I want to say break it down Barney Rubble style, but you know, what is it really and what it is not? That's number one. Two, because we have folks who think linearly when they see your CIP request highlights funded, they're thinking that this is your priority list in this order. Is that the case? I don't think so. So, unfunded. Well, unfunded, I'm sorry, unfunded. uh but when they when they see these things the first thing is saying okay number that's their number one item that they want us to attack and that's not the case so

226is it possible to prioritize these and then list them in that prioritized order or is that too much our CIP process certainly has items prioritized CP is our number one so this document was provided for a historical perspective of what our CIP request over the years has been and then what um has been funded in the funding source. So the items listed on here are not all of them by any means. They were large pieces that have been on the CIP for multiple years over and over and over as we've requested them. Some items were on our CIP and we've been able to fund them with ESSER funding or state construction funding or our infrastructure funding that's coming in. other means that we've been able to get them and get them off of our CIP.

227However, they were, you know, on their original request. So, this is not our CIP submission. This was looking at a historical perspective and looking at items that are large items that are unfunded in no priority order. A lot of them starting from the first or it's because I started with the back years first of pulling items that had not been funded for the years over. Okay. Our current CIP process does have prior prioritization on it. It is in board docs based on what um school board approved in December and um we can certainly provide those documents. They were also provided to the county. Thank you. I I think I see what's happening. I think sometimes we are asked for specific granular um data or information and when you take things out of context then there

228is um their misconceptions. So I hear your I hear your point which is um why we have to be more specific. What? That's why I say break it down Barney Rubble because we know that this is not your you know we know that but others who may look at it may draw wrong conclusions and then it's taken out of out of context. The capital improvement plan that was submitted in December is approximately 21 pages of spreadsheet information. And so when we are talking to an unfamiliar listener, discussing 21 pages of current and historical data is not something that can be digested and understood without extensive dialogue. And unfortunately, we just don't have that gift of time traditionally with people. And so, um, I I do hear that there is inherent danger when we create side

229sheets that are just capturing little nuggets. It doesn't give that whole picture. And we'll be more cognizant of that as we move forward. Um, and we will do our best to help explain deferred maintenance as we continue that charge because it is a complicated topic that not everyone understands and it is easy for people to mistakenly fall into the understanding of negligence and that is not the case. And so we want to make sure that we're really clear about that. And I love the analogy of of sheer homeownership, roofing, windows, HVAC, all extremely costly endeavors. And then you multiply that to the scale of schools and you're into the millions. But I think what's important too is where we have spent money in those buildings are where the students are. Correct. So if we have

230students in those spaces, that's where we're prioritizing our dollars. Right. So, we may not be replacing the roof and adding on at Lotus, but if there are kids in a building, it is our priority to maintain those spaces, keep them clean, and invest in it. And I think that's what's getting lost. And the data stands on its own. However, in the report, when you look at the facility condition index, the FCI score, and you cluster all auxiliary buildings with the comparison to all K12 buildings, there is such disperate information, meaning that there's this huge discrepancy between the um score of our buildings and the score of our auxiliary buildings where all of our support staff and central office and transportation and maintenance, we all call those homes. And so, um, it takes every employee in

231this organization to make a high quality school division and everyone deserves a healthy teaching, learning, work environment, but we will always put our money where our students are when needing to make a decision that requires that outcome. So that is that is just what we've done and our data shows that that is how we operate. So obviously the fourth item is longterm meaning years 4 to 10. I don't know that it would be good use of time tonight to move into that um with great specificity but that is where you move into the high school expansion where you move into CBGS and Lotus where you continue the deferred maintenance conversation and we talk about a new transportation building if a renovation of that complex doesn't happen in the short term and there is a plan

232that was put together by RRMM for a renovation. And if you'd like Mark to speak to that, he certainly can. And then I'll yield the floor to the board for whatever you would like to discuss further. Um, would the board like to discuss uh further uh the long-term priorities? And I and I say that because when it when you get to a certain point, we become ineffective. We've been here for four hours. It's been a long time. And uh I don't want us to just breeze through it so we can leave. Uh but at the same time, I don't want us to take it lightly. So what is the board's wish? Would you like to continue or would you like for us to table it, set up another meeting or do whatever? the transportation facility

233is uh a priority. That is something that we're looking at in the immediate the additional bay. I think the board of supervisors has even you know alluded to you know they need to expand that. So that is a part of our our thinking and our our planning. Correct. That is one of our rubric criteria is to address the transportation facility need. How we go about doing that is up for discussion and um Mr. Probes has laid out what a construction cost would be associated with an addition, the renovation cost, the soft cost, etc. And that total project for the current building goes beyond a one bay um addition, but would be about $3.4 4 million if you which includes addressing the deferred maintenance needs of the county's building because remember this is a county facility

234that we utilize. So um my only question was that it is being addressed and if it you know we can certainly come back and discuss this in greater detail at our next powout or our next meeting but um you know I'm good with that and I I I agree that it's very important. I see the transportation director is here and I certainly would not want to make you sit here all this time and not give you an opportunity. Uh would would would you like to address that just uh kind of briefly overview? Uh and I don't want to put you on the spot, but I'm just saying you've been here and I wouldn't want you to have sat here all the time and then we get to your No. Um, you know, it's just something

235that, you know, we really do need to address. We have greatly outgrown our current facility. Um, I was just counting the all of the the bigger size buses we have. We'll get our 34th, no, 35th uh 77 passenger bus tomorrow and the 36th will come next week. So over 80% of our operating buses is the 77 passenger which we have one bay to service. So we are at a huge disadvantage when you know those type buses break down. Um you know really puts us you know in a in a tough situation. So um we don't really have to go into detail tonight but you know it is something that we you know we need to spend some time on. Okay. Let me just ask you uh one thing. U and I know that uh they

236talked about putting another bay in and uh without having to go into a lot of detail. Does that really I know it doesn't solve your problem obviously but uh is that going to make life substantially better for you or is that just a band-aid for one bay or Yeah. I mean well when when we were talking about uh you know a new transportation building alto together and then they the they meaning the board of supervisors said we're going to add a bay to the transportation building so we can service the 7 what is it 77 77 passenger passenger buses but it kind of made it sound like we going to fix the problem by doing that And and I and and I guess that's what I'm I'm getting at. Um no, one bay would not

237cut it. Um just one bay for 77. We have we'll have 36 35 36. We need at least three to four to run our fleet correctly the way it should be done, having you know the ability to get them in, get them out, get them serviced. So we have the plans here. Well, it'll add four and and this is, you know, Mark can definitely uh explain it more than I can, but um this would suit our needs to um address the situations and will allow us to be able to get those buses in and out where where we're not relying on just one functional bay to fully service those buses. Mr. Childs, can you remind us what the regularity of bus inspections is? Is it every 40 days that a bus needs to come in

238to be inspected? Yeah. So, every 45 days, the VDOE, it is a requirement that we service buses every 45 days. After 45 days, we can either do 45 days or 5,000 miles, but we do every 45 days. After every 45 days, the bus has to be inspected. If not, it is deadlined and is non-compliant. Therefore, it is placed out of service until we can do that 45day inspection. And additionally, you know, we do, of course, state inspections. Um, if a driver has a defect report that they turn in, then we have to bring that bus in, check it out. So outside of the 45 days, you also have other maintenances, oil changes, transmission service, tires, brakes, anything that anything else that happens, we have to have that bus in. Okay. Okay. Thank you. I just

239wanted to to give you an opportunity to kind of briefly we need to get back to this and and certainly it needs to be an item uh that's on another agenda to to talk about, but I I did not want to not give you one question. I'll be quiet. I promise this is not our facility. So who is this? How do we pay for the expansion? That is a would that be solely county or is that something that we have to partner with them? Well, we do not have funding to support an expansion. We have evaluated the latest construction grant which is a competitive grant and we do not meet the criteria for submission. We will not equate to the points that ultimately um result in a funding stream and outside of our regular infrastructure

240money that we are required to match with like a 40% um portion in our budget. We we don't have funding to support an expansion. So, it would be coming from the county. Gotcha. Absolutely. But isn't it also true that anything that we do comes from the county because we can't levy taxes? It is true. Or state funds or grant monies, um, federal dollars. Yes. I would like to have this conversation because at this point I don't know what I don't I can't imagine what the daily operations is with one bay to manage those things. And as a parent when that phone call comes which has only happened a couple of times to say that a bus is going to be significantly delayed. This is just the cost of doing business. We got to get the

241kids to school. So, I think we need to uh definitely prioritize and figure it out. And again, I don't know why this is not a win-win with the county to look at a joint use facility with all the county vehicles. Well, I would like to suggest that there was a recommendation at our joint meeting that we look at spending the funds to expand Bowling Green with the breakout wall for six classrooms, which was going to be o approximately over $3 million to do this work for the expansion based on what RRMM has proposed is around the same price. So if there was a willingness to expand Bowling Green in a permanent fashion and we don't believe that that is a rightsiz choice, would we be able to have that same conversation about those funds being

242shifted to the transportation center so that we could truly address the cost of business and not again have have a a long vision versus a short vision because one bay won't meet our current need. one additional bay won't meet our current need. So we we need to be looking to build out for the growing capacity in our growing fleet of 77 passenger buses. So I think that component has to be part of our conversation as we move forward. And I think too that's just only addressing one issue. I'm sure there are many many more issues other than just that. That was one of the main ones I think that probably focused a little bit more attention. Uh, and the only thing I would say is that anytime you and I'm not against sharing a building

243or but it it just comes down to who's going to, you know, who's going to be the boss, who's going to make the the the the decision. It's like two women in one kitchen. You know what I'm saying? Who All right. Now, go there. Go there. I mean, you know, I mean, you're right, though. You're right. Yeah. You know, I yield all kitchen duties to whoever's in the kitchen with me. But anyway, uh anyway, I would Yeah. But I would like to see us really spend time seriously with that and and and get to the point where we can make a recommendation uh other than the one we've already made uh to try to address this issue. Okay. Um, is that okay? Then uh again I I I certainly thank the board for coming together

244and not just the board, the staff and everybody else. This was a very worthwhile meeting. And you know, I can't imagine going to the meeting on Monday the 12th had we not had this meeting tonight. this this was uh very needed and u I think I think it has put us miles ahead. I don't know if the board of supervisors are going to take our suggestions seriously and and and do what we need to do but they can't say they don't know what the need is and they can't say we haven't asked. I remember in the last meeting I heard more than one board member say or supervisor say well what do they want what do they want well they can't say what do they want anymore okay so a motion for adjournment is in

245order so move is a second second moved and properly second we adjourned all in favor let it be known by saying I motion carries we are journ There is one minor announcement that Lisa needs to