001I'm going to call the Charlottesville City Council um August 4th, 2025 meeting to order. Um we have role um for um city council. Uh Brian Kingston will not be here and I think Michael will be joining us if he's he's not here yet. Uh I suspect Michael to be here. Is there a motion to approve or amend the agenda? >> Second. >> Okay. Second. Um all in favor, please say yes. >> Yes. And no oppositions. Um this meeting will be divided into three sections. The first will be a joint session um with the Charlottesville City School Board followed by um city council closed meeting and then uh we'll have our regular business meeting at at 6:30. This is a joint meeting with the school board. U madame chairperson, would you like to call? >> Yes.
002Um go ahead and call our school board meeting our joint work session to order and staffer if you can call the role please. here. >> here. >> Yes. Thank you. >> And we also need to approve our agenda of one item. Is there a motion to do so? >> So moved >> in a second. >> Second. >> All right. Miss Burns with a second. All in favor say I. >> Any opposed? Thank you. I now turn um floor over to um city manager Sanders. >> Good evening, council, members of the school board, members of the public. Um to I guess this afternoon, uh our planned conversation for this joint meeting is regarding school facilities, buildings specifically. Um this was part of a ongoing conversation that Dr. Gurley and I have been having. But in addition,
003I shared, I believe it was the uh joint meeting prior to the prior to this one where I referenced that it was probably necessary for us to begin having some further conversation about the long-term projections on managing school facilities. Uh so before we would go too far down that road, I thought it was important for us to figure out a way to have a joint session where we could at least just get an update as to how we look at our school buildings today. what are the conditions of those? Uh we have team members who are responsible for managing these buildings, but ideally we best for us to ensure that both bodies receive this information at the same time with as much detail as we could possibly provide for where we are today and where
004we project possibly being in the next few years. So this evening, uh Mike Goddard and James Reese are going to be walking you through that particular uh analysis and I think Miss Powell is also going to be speaking as well. And the intent for council specifically is this is a step ahead of your uh council retreat that is coming up on the 15th and 16th. In that retreat will be prioritizing the discussion around housing, schools, and transportation. Uh pointing out to you of course that my job is always to remind you of choices that you have to make and the discipline that comes with spending the money that we have because those resources while they keep growing are still limited. And ideally what we want to make sure of is that you're as informed as
005possible when making these various decisions that you have to make in your respective roles. So I'll turn it over to the gentlemen and allow them to take us through what they have prepared for us this evening. >> All right. Thank you. That's Thank you, Sam. Good evening, Mayor Wade, members of council, members of the school board. My name is James F. I'm deputy city manager for operations. And am I a bit the skin are you? >> I'm sure I have the control. Thank you. Okay, great. [clears throat] We can go ahead and go to the next slide. So, as city manager Sanders mentioned, our goal for the night is to provide y'all with a high level uh uh review of the status of our school facilities. Um to that end, we are going to after
006a brief introduction um talk about school enrollment capacity. Uh we're going to do a review of each of our existing school buildings and provide an update on the middle status of the middle school. Slide please. So while generally speaking our school buildings are in good condition, they are all old. So we when we look at our schools, we actually think of them in the set of pairs. We call them the twins. Um the first of these, the vintage era, if you will, Trailblazer and Summit uh represent a period of time where we were using a more classical design. So think columns and large windows. Then we have the middle era uh which were represented by sunrise and tall oaks built in 50s. These school buildings we think of them as kind of good solid school
007buildings. They they do the job. They are and they are in good condition. And then finally from the 60s we have Greenbryer and Jackson Vaia which are our open floor plan era of schools. Right? So these are marked by obviously the open floor plan style but also small windows. Uh generally these school uh buildings are more complex in their layout um and have a range of other challenges associated with them. And then uh other than our brand new middle school, Charlottesville High School is our newest school building in the portfolio built for us in 1975. So um so our review as we looked at at the school buildings considered three basic factors. First off was just straight up building condition. What is what is the condition of these buildings just as buildings alone generally as
008I noted they've been in we maintain these school buildings in good condition. Uh we complete periodic assessments um and plan for their maintenance over time. The second uh issue we looked at was capacity relative to school enrollment. What does our school population look like going forward and are we looking at capacity constraints that we are going to need to plan for? And then the final thing we looked at was really the ability of these school buildings as they exist today to meet modern education expectations. Basically, what are we looking for in a school building today and how do these school buildings compare to those needs? Oh, one second, Ken. Almost there. Um, so in in the in on this issue of modernizing our schools, we've been taking kind of a quick hit approach, right, where
009we have about a million dollars a year uh that we dedicate towards discrete projects that can be completed over the course of roughly one summer. One of the questions really before you tonight is whether we continue that approach or whether we look at a more holistic approach of considering school buildings as a whole, looking at the whole building and looking at improvements, doing improvements all at once. Whether that's a deep renovation, renovation plus an addition, or considering redevelopment of the overall school building. If we were to move towards that school by school uh uh upgrades or school improvement program, our next step in this process would be to do a deeper dive into each and every school. do an assessment of what that school would need. What are those gaps between what are we looking
010for in a school and where that school is today? So that we can develop school by school cost estimates and then build that into a financial and construction plan that might then stretch over a 5, 10, or even 20 year uh period of time. So with that, I'm going to go ahead and turn things over to Miss Powell, who's going to talk to us about enrollment and capacity of the schools. Thank you, James. Good evening. I'm Kim Pal, the chief operations officer with the city schools, and we can advance to the next slide. Thank you. I know this is a bit of an eye chart with a lot of numbers on it, but um this is what the numbers are really important to is enrollment capacity. And the key takeaways when you look at all
011these numbers is it's really there isn't like an imminent capacity issue with our schools. Um we did have a extended period of pretty brisk growth um back around 2010 11 12 we were on an upward trae trajectory that was concerning to us and we partnered with Welden Cooper to figure out what was causing it. And it was actually the uh high-rise UVA student housing that went up on West Main as college students moved into that housing. It freed up quite a bit of um single family home stock in the city and unexpectedly we experienced a fairly sustained growth surge for some time. The growth we experienced during that time took a little dip during COVID which happened with almost every public school division across the Commonwealth. But then um after as we came out of
012COVID and returned to inerson learn in-person learning, our enrollment pretty much just stabilized at where it was pre pre- pandemic. And that's sort of where we're riding right now with um a little bit of a downward trend that we can foresee because of the uh reduction in birth rates. I can tell you that um you hear if you Google what's going on with birth rates in this nation, it's it's you can see lots of charts. I thought about bringing one into this presentation but decided not to. But if you choose to look at such things, you'll see that that declining birth rate trend is real and Charlottesville's not excluded from that. So what will make a difference for us or what we as city schools know that we have to monitor carefully in the face
013of that birth rate trend is what's going on with housing developments and particularly affordable housing that will be attractive for families. That's what will change things, would change the outlook with our school capacity. Um, when it comes to school capacity, and this is getting a little bit more into the weeds, the functional and max capacity numbers that you see there, functional capacity, um, and I'll apologize to the VMDO folks in the room if I butcher this definition, but it's it's really where you're operating in what feels like a full school, but you have the space to react to changes. We like to say unfortunately the kids never show up in nice little bundles of 24 to put them in the classrooms the way you need to. So sometimes you have to add a classroom for
014a particular grade level or for a particular subject. And when you're operating as you're approaching functional capacity, you're starting to run out of options to to address those needs as they arrive. Max capacity is getting into more of the hardcore like fire marshall type numbers. That's a place you just don't want to be in. you're needing to typically add modular units or take some kind of action before you really get to max capacity because it becomes extremely difficult to manage your programs in the building. Um, you want to stay at or ideally below 80% of functional capacity to have the ability to maneuver and operate a typical school without really feeling those pinch points at serious in a serious way. And so what the table shows you here is that the team, city facilities team,
015asked us to look it up Rockton out to 2030. And we've been working with a consulting firm, Walpert, um, helped us with the resoning, the elementary resoning process that we undertook this past year because we recognize that within our 10 square miles, we have to be super mindful of where the housing developments are coming because some of our schools really don't have room to expand. Um, if you're in a locality that has more green space, a lot of times you just the typical first move is you drop modulars and then you figure it out, right? We the school zone that has the most development targeted to it is the school zone where dropping modulars is absolutely not an option and there's not even really a viable option for expansion. I wish I included the word
016vital in a closing bullet down there because the you'll see later in the deck that when it comes to summit, the only thing we could come up with if we had to expand capacity there would be to take the little parking square in the back of the school and build a parking structure in that square with classrooms integrated and you still wouldn't get that many classrooms. And then what that does is the entire inside of that building, all those beautiful large interior windows are set looking at a parking garage. So I don't really feel like there's that's a privile expansion option. Um so there's some real hard limits at summit but um for purposes of today's conversation just know that capacity we are being proactive working with um this firm that helped with initial resoning
017because now when we do enrollment projections we're bringing in a geoloccation factor into the into it so we can really keep track of what's happening where with the developments. Um, we're in a close conversation with CRA and with Piedmont who are the driving forces behind a lot of the development that's going to potentially have impacts on our enrollments and um it's just something that we have to keep tabs on and it's not enough to keep tabs on it holistically especially at the elementary level. we've got to do it zone by zone, but we feel um the the board and the whole team I think did a lot of great proactive work to reach out to the community, educate them about what's going on and try to get ahead of what's already in progress or approved
018but maybe not yet broken ground so that we can not be in a reactionary position in particular at summit. Thank you. Good evening. I'm Mike Gutddard, deputy director of public works. Um, been working on some of these schools projects for a long time. And so I'll I'll present to you kind of some of the common issues and and an overview of uh kind of a path forward. Uh I should mention as well that um BMD of Architects is here tonight to give an update on the uh K center project as well. So uh it's a dense a lot to get through today. So we're going to try and move for you. Uh a few gentle notes though. Um but let's look at our our our facilities holistically was uh as Kim mentioned the uh capacity
019study work we did in 2016 2017 um a lot's changed since then we had a particular lens we were uh that that information we gathered is still use today but I think it's also uh we have an expanded uh interest now um I would say that it is important to point out before I get into this. A lot of specific information here that we're not making a specific proposal with this slide deck. Um, we're kind of taking bits and pieces of things we feel like might be needed, but this is meant to be the opening of conversation. It's not supposed to give you an exact um, you know, say go and we go do exactly what's on these slides. Um, and uh, I think it's important that I point out the Walker conversations happening because
020some of what we're talking about here could be facilitated uh, by some of the stuff that the MDO team is going to show you with the Walker presentation. So when James says that here to for we've been attacking these uh appropriateness issues with smaller interventions over the course of the summer um that's a little bit problematic because a summer is a very short window of time. Uh I would say that you'll see through the presentation of the different projects we've done and what we've been calling our modernization program that um though it does make a part of a school nice uh it is not the whole school by any stretch. Um, so I'll jump into some of the common issues we're seeing at our schools. Um, bathrooms are a big concern. Uh, in a lot
021of cases they're outdated. Uh, in a lot of cases they are not up to current ADA standards. So that's uh an important thing. Also um there's concern about gender, who uses what restroom. Um we in the new uh middle school project, we've gone with genderless restrooms. So one restroom, one person, doesn't matter your gender. Um we also did a a project that I'll show you in a minute out of Charlottesville High School that had a similar approach. It was very successful um at Charlottesville High School. Nothing but positive feedback from that. So um that's one approach we could look at. Uh flooring. Um, flooring is a big issue because, uh, a school's large, right? So, it doesn't seem like a lot to change out some flooring, but when you got to do the entire floor
022in a summer, that's a challenge. So, what ends up happening is these patchwork flooring projects. Uh, and then you end up with different types of floors and it's um, it's just not the best way to to tackle that. Also, carpeting in schools tends to be a disaster. So, and there's some of it out there still. uh ceiling grids. Um you know, the ceiling grids are functional. They're doing their job, but they're outdated. Uh and I think when you walk into a school, uh it's really surprising how important the impact of your ceilings and lighting are to your perception of that space. Um our ceiling grids across the the school system, we're working on it, but it's they're not all there yet. and CHS definitely has a lot of ceiling grid that needs gone through. Um
023lighting, our lighting is, you know, we've been moving through making LED adjustments uh as we change out lighting through the schools, but again, it's something that is it feels like maybe a more um wholesale approach it's required. And then down at the bottom, there aren't pictures for these things cuz it's not something you take a lot of pictures of, but our mechanical and electrical and plumbing. These are big ticket items you know that we've been going through the schools trying to update the switch gear for the electrical systems. It's very costly. It's very time consuming. Um our plumbing systems, you know, some of the schools have old iron pipes underneath them. So, it's not as simple as changing out a toilet. If you want a toilet to work better, you have to go all the
024way down the line and out to the street. And those are challenging things to take care of in a summer. Um and mechanical systems you know we want to have uh modern efficient mechanical systems uh and in a lot of cases we do not simply put we'll do the next slide please. So I'll go school by school and kind of talk about the uh the condition of each school. Um each of these slides will be laid out similarly. In the upper left, we'll have some basic information about some projects we've completed, some projects that we need to complete. Um, in the lower left, you'll see what was suggested by our capacity study work in 2016 and 17. Um, those numbers aren't picked up anywhere else in the uh grand scheme of things. They're just there
025for your information. Um, and then some talk about suitability, um, what the positives and negatives of each school and its site are. So, Greenbryer built 1962. Uh, we've done some uh different projects there over the years. I won't read through all of them. Uh, but we do have some major uh capital maintenance projects that are needed in the near future. Windows, uh, roof will be coming up, HVAC overhaul, generator replacement, fire alarm panel, um, and then flooring and sinks and bathrooms. And I think, uh, this is one where the There is some room for >> No cafeteria. The auditorium is unders sized. Do I need to be in stereo? Right. Um the music class uh space is small. Um there's insufficient specialist instruction space. Um and there's no way to add a visitor vestibule. That's
026something that's been priority for the schools to add a visitor vestibule at each of the schools. This one is nearly impossible based on uh how the school is laid out. Next slide, please. uh Jackson Via Elementary. Um you'll see some similar things here. Um we've done some projects over the years. We did a the fourth grade modernization downstairs, which you'll see in a minute. Um but we have some big issues here, too. Uh the roofing, which is on schedule to be done uh in a couple of years. Uh it needs an HBAC overhaul. Uh and we need to replace building sealants. Um lower left you'll see some suggestions for how we had planned to expand the school in our last goround. Um suitability of the school. It's got a lot of land. That's good. Uh
027it has two internal courtyards which are very nice. Uh it has no kitchen or cafeteria though. Uh and natural light for the classrooms is minimal. Um it's got those slot windows. So each classroom has a little window about this wide and that's what lets natural light into the classroom. Um, I can't speak for what people were thinking back in the day, but um, kids are like plants. They need light. Um, and there's no outdoor covered play space. Next slide, please. Summit Elementary. This is one of our oldest schools. Um, but ironically, I think it's uh, one of the best. Um, constructed 1930. Uh, there's been a lot of development over the years. uh major addition for instance um unfortunately that major edition built floor plates that don't match up with the existing floor plates. So
028there are like half floors at the transition. Again, I don't know what they were thinking, but um and this is one that Kim mentioned has very little space for expansion. Um it's in need of a roof. Uh it's in need of electrical switch gear replacement, an HVAC overhaul, uh and a modernized elevator. Um, suitabilitywise, it has large classrooms and good natural light. So, this this building actually has what you would hope for in a modern classroom. Good size classes, lots of modern moder natural light. That's funny because it was built 100 years ago, but what goes around what what's everything's cyclical, right? >> Yeah. >> U stately building. It's a beautiful building. So, um, you know, we would never suggest doing anything with this. Uh however uh the traffic parking issues in the neighborhood are
029tough. It is landlocked. It has very little space. Uh as I mentioned the different interior levels um and the site conditions here are a wreck. So you know we would have to look very closely at what we wanted to do with this site. Next slide please. Uh Trailblazer Elementary, another of the old ones and again a beautiful and good functioning school. A lot of the same things apply here. Um, we would like to replace the generator and the transfer switch. Um, do HAC overhaul. U, repair and replace the wood corners and trim. Um, in terms of suitability, um, again, it's well, this one has a large auditorium, which is nice. U, there's a courtyard, which we could use for something maybe. Um, a nice play field. Um, unfortunately, it has four different interior levels. Unfort
030this is a common theme for whatever reason when people in the past have added on to schools. They don't care where the floors already are. They just put new floors and say here's a staircase. Um which worked great when there weren't people with ADA issues. I I guess that was the case in the old days. Um and then uh a lot of cut through traffic through the site which you know that's that is what it is. Um but you know overall a good school, good bones. Um, next slide, please. Sunrise Elementary. Uh, we've done some work here recently. Uh, we did a library renovation here a few years back. Uh, it had a roof replacement in 2000 and it will get another one uh in 2027. Um, it had a security vestible vestibule edition, which
031is good. Um, but in the future, we've got, like I said, the roofing membrane replacement. uh some slate roof repairs, HVAC overhaul. You're seeing a theme here. Um floor covering replacements. Um suitability wise, it has a a nice library cuz we just did it. Um it has great solar orientation, which is a good thing. Um especially since we're trying to put solar on a lot of our schools and all of our new roofs are solar ready. Um adequate buildable land, so we could build an addition here or something else if we needed. Um, art room is inadequately sized. However, I stem room has egress concerns. So, it's down in a basement. It's hard to get in and out of there. Uh, and then there's two isolated lower levels. So, there's a lower floor levels that
032aren't connected in the middle. They're just kind of separate out. Uh, next slide, please. Tall Oaks. Uh, this one was known as Johnson in case you're confused. I know I still am. Um, this one has uh recently received a rooftop terrace, which is a nice addition. We just finished that one last summer. Um, there was a library edition back in '94. Um, it needs a roof. It needs skylights replaced. It needs once again a major HVAC overhaul and a generator replacement. Um, it suitability, uh, trails are nearby. That's good. It's connected to to the neighborhood. Um outdoor learning spaces are well connected. Um good good amount of buildable land there. So if we wanted to do something, we could. Um and good natural lighting. So these middle era schools tend to have decent natural light.
033Um the media center could use an upgrade. Um outdoor uh play space would be useful. It's covered. Um multiple classrooms are undersized. Uh this is a a a specific one for this school. Um and then there could be some more specialist uh instructional space. Next slide, please. Charlottesville High School. This is a big one. Um constructed in 1975. It's a very large school, very spread out. Um we just did, as I mentioned, the B Commons restroom modernization. Very successful project. Uh maybe a template for things we'd like to do in other schools. Uh the new the electrical distribution center system was just redone. Uh we just finished that up. Uh the roof replacement is just now finishing up third phase. So we've all lived through three phases of roof replacement on CHS. Now um because
034it's so big, everything costs a lot because everything's a square foot multiplier and construction. So uh when it comes to doing things like ceiling replacements, I mean that's a long project even if it's just that. Um, so it has a new roof that's solar ready. Great. Um, large library, excellent STEM lab, adequate buildable land. So, this is a good site. Feel comfortable about this school generally. However, the library could be updated. Uh, there's not much natural light in a lot of the classrooms for c some reason. Um there are some acoustical challenges, sounds traveling between classrooms and um again the the sprawling layout um just makes everything security projects, timeline, budget a challenge. U but we do have a lot of space. So you probably noticed a few themes through all of that. I did
035want to, you know, we've talked several times about our uh peace meal approach to modernization. I want to go through what we've accomplished with that program since it was approved. Um first uh summit fourth grade classrooms in 2019. We uh feels like that was a different timeline, but um we completed a renovation of the fourth grade wing. That was I think four classrooms is what we accomplished with a million dollars. Um that was the first one. It was the template. At the time we were going with classroom modern mo modernization and we figured we'd go through all the schools and do one grade at a time until we'd gotten the whole school done. What we're realizing is that here now that we've gone through all of the elementary schools, it's going to take um forever
036to get through all those schools and we still will never catch up. Uh Jackson Vio fourth grade classrooms. Uh we went to the basement and took their kind of worst classrooms and made them the most modern classrooms in the school. very successful project. Um, the Sunrise Media Center and STEM space. So, we took their library and made it modern. We added a STEM space. Uh, it's it's a really great um a great place to check out a book or to study science. Next slide, please. Uh, then based on our success there, we moved to Greenbryer and did another media center. Um, another very successful project, Tall Oaks. We did an outdoor terrace. So, we took the roof of their gym, which was just a black uh EPDM roof membrane, and we added uh occupiable space
037there, modified the railings so you could access it and the stairways and made it a place where you could do outdoor study. Um, and then Charlottesville High School B Common's restrooms. This is a picture of our of our restroom project there. Uh we just finished this one up last year. Um and we're very pleased with this. I think it's um I think it is it could be a template for a way that we could make restrooms that work for everyone in the city schools. So this slide talks about costs and I don't want anybody I said it before I want to be clear. This is not a specific project that we're um proposing. This is kind of taking some things out of those buckets. Um, you know, we took the required maintenance that you saw
038on each of those building slides, for instance, and and put them in there. I put a number for bathroom renovations. So, if we wanted to do the bathrooms in the school, there's a placeholder number, and you'll see it's a nice round number. Anytime you see a round number in construction, you should be worried about the accuracy of that number, but there's a number there. Uh, and I think it's in the ballpark. um ceiling and flooring renovations. Uh we took square footage numbers um for replacing all the ceilings and floors in the school and likewise with lighting renovations. Um some of these things have already been you know pencled in as future projects. Um some most of them have not. Um but we just wanted to give you a sense of scale of what we're talking
039about. And the things that aren't in this this package of numbers are things like natural lighting. There's not a dollar in here for increasing the size of a window that only has a slot window. Um, these are these are basically we did our best to take the school that we have now and not change really anything about that school except that everything finishwise and impressions wise as you walk into this school is modernized and new. So, this is you see down at the bottom $100 million. We're not talking about escalation costs. You know, what does this cost by the time we get there? How long does it take to, you know, get to the decision point? As James mentioned, we would want to do an in-depth study on each school and really lay out a
040capital program if this was something we were interested in inviting into. Um, but I think the point here is just to say here's a very basic approach we could take and this is the number we came up with. Is this a conversation we want to have? [clears throat] So, I'll close there with that. You know, I'm always here for questions. Um, but I also thought it was important that I give an update on one of our big projects. Right now, you'll notice that on all of these slides, you don't see anything about Charlottville Middle School and you don't see anything about the prek center. That's because we have active projects on those two sites. Um, and because of that, the schools are perfect. Um, not really, but I think you'll see that we're getting pretty
041close here. Um, this is an update on Charlesville Middle School. Teachers moved in today. So, we are, this is brand new information. So, status on Charlesville Middle School. As you'll remember, if you've been following along, right now we're at this moment where um, you know, we're using the new buildings. So, we built new buildings. Now, we're going to go back and renovate the old buildings. While we're renovating the old building, building A, um we're occupying these brand new buildings. So, I encourage everybody to try and get a look because they are beautiful. Um [clears throat] this is the view from the playfield looking up towards on the right side of the screen the gym building and on the left side the classroom buildings uh of the new Charlottesville Middle School. Next slide, please. This is
042what the restrooms look like uh pretty much throughout Charlesville Middle School. It's the same idea as the uh Charlesville High School restrooms. One person, one restroom, doesn't matter your gender. Um plenty of ADA restrooms. Um this is a much better and easier to manage uh restroom facility because it has eyes from the hallway. Um, here's the new gym, which I think is when I stood in it, I was like, this is the most phenomenal gym >> in Charlottesville. Um, next slide, please. This is we're very much still in construction. This was, you know, 3 days ago, which is an ancient history, um, in a construction project. But these are the folks putting together the main grand stairway of the new middle school. Uh and this little seating area, the wooden seating area on the right
043there where people can gather and take their time. Next slide, please. This is a typical classroom. I didn't select based on anything besides I was walking by and I took a picture. So, this is what an average classroom looks like. Um, very nice, good natural light, brand new furniture, brand new everything. Next slide, please. And this is the main entryway. So, this is where uh, if you remember the old Buford, the staircase you're standing on here would have been the old staircase you would have taken down to the admin offices. This is now enclosed space. It's the junction between the new buildings which you see on the right of the image and the old buildings which are under construction on the left. So right now all of the penetrations between that wall on the left
044are sealed up and inside people are absolutely ripping that building apart. If you go look at I mean there is precious little left steel. That's about all that's surviving this thing. Um, but it's all in the interest of making this a a great learning environment. And I think uh once you see it finally completed, it's going to be really something to behold. But we're happy that we're at this place where we've gotten the new building constructed and uh occupiable. And uh I don't want to say the hard work is over, but that work is over. All right, next slide. That's it. Okay. Um, so I guess now would be a good time for any questions about this part before we queue up BMDO to talk about our prek center. >> Um, yes, I have some
045kind of questions and thoughts. um where I see where Greenbryer has you know um last year had 234 students and next I didn't think um and um summit is at 300. So, and you know, and I know I'm not going to talk about every time when I was on council, but it was almost just the opposite a few, you know, I know 10 years or so ago and that we were, you know, you know, said, do we Clark had do is enough students there to keep it open. That's how fewer students that it was there was like 120 or so students. It was really low. So, I you know, I'm just thinking what's happening here is Green Brier, you know, um, you know, people like Lloyd and I don't live there, but you know, our
046kids are gone and we're still in the house. There's no there's no kids there. But I guess in 10 years, you know, it could change. And, um, what I did, I did a quick ad of the maximum capacity and that's about 5,300. And, um, so it looks like we have capacity of about a thousand students or so, Kim, something like that that we could grow. um with because what I was looking at is that your numbers and it didn't include any like expansion and um but I think that we have a fair amount of capacity um you know we haven't seen how the zoning is going to play out and I'm you know you know anyway I'm just kind of just just thinking off the top of my head um that um do we think
047we need capac passing in the school for future growth. >> So I I think what we're dealing right now is a couple of things that people don't see. Um so part of the issue and this came out during our conversation when we were reszoning. So in terms of the things that make us really successful such as providing the interventions for students uh sometimes that's happening in the closet. So it's the additional resource spaces that people are forgetting about. So yes, we have some areas where we have some areas where the enrollment ticks up, but it's the other things that makes the student achievement work in terms of where we provide reading intervention, math intervention. And I can tell you in any you can go in any school and it's happening in the hallway um daily.
048It's happening in a book room daily. Um, and so yes. So, do we need more room? Is there are there opportunities to expand? Absolutely. Because those things shouldn't be happening in a book room. They shouldn't be happening in a hallway. Um, but they absolutely do happen every single day. And when we open schools up next Wednesday, at every school, you'll see that happening. Um, so I would say yes. >> So, Dr. How is this going to look I guess in a few years when um the fifth graders come back? Is that factor in here? >> Yes. We we're going to do a um it's going to be an even swap. So, we are moving out prek students and then u the principles will work to reconfigure the building so that the fifth graders can come
049back in. Um but again I just want to make sure that I'm plugging that we keep in what we keep in front of us is that even once we reconfigure even once we um reszone we still are going to have students who are receiving those additional services what we call tier 2 well tier 2 happens in the classroom um largely uh but those tier three interventions are happening in hallways closets and things of that nature. Yeah, I mean I remember them taking place two or three students in in in the cafeteria, you know, um different parts of the cafeteria, you know, pulling students out. So, yeah. Yeah. >> Mayor Wade, if I if I might just in the conversations we've been having when we look at school population enrollment, we've looked out five years and
050to the best of our ability in terms of projections are the best we can do. It doesn't look like we're going to see a substantial increase in school population to drive a need to do additions to schools for that reason. But as Dr. Gurley has pointed out, the the when we think about modernizing the school building, that's where you get into the need for breakout rooms for a variety of purposes and the need to expand space for for STEM uses, for media centers, for technology. And that's where we start to think about the need for additions and that kind of space. Um, I think one of the things we're hoping to get from all of you tonight is your reaction to the status of the school buildings as they are today relative to these issues,
051particularly to that issue of modernization. And um, and and I'm going to offer something on on the numbers that Mike gave. I kind of see those and this might draw a gas as kind of a floor because that is in some respects what he shared as kind of the minimum interventions necessary just to to to bring the school buildings up to a good condition and make them look nice and attractive and invite and all very positive things. But when you start rolling in these aspects of modernization um and the the additional space we might need to accomplish that that's when that's when it really gets expensive. And that's the kind of stuff we would uncover going to school by school. >> Yeah, I'll get um council to chime in. Natalie, you have any thoughts? You
052your >> CJ mentioned that capacity sorry um you mentioned that for functional capacity uh is calculated at about sorry best fit is 80% or below or of functional capacity. How is functional capacity calculated? So for that I would need to defer to the people such as the B&DO folks who are in the room. I don't know if they maybe could speak to that when they're at the podium because we actually depended on them to determine to set those targets. >> Okay. >> Um so I just I don't want to misspe and I >> we just need you in the microphone for the people at home. >> Okay. Thanks. So uh typically what we see Virginia Department of Education has a formula essentially and the conversation you were having about uh intervention spaces and things those
053are non-capacity generating spaces. So the spaces that are used for the capacity calculations are only classrooms. So that's something to understand first. So, we take all of the classroom in the school and we multiply that times a a student capacity factor for those classrooms. Typically, it's around 25. Uh for some spaces like preK, it'll be 18 uh because we want a higher u or lower student toteer ratio. But you run through that capacity calculation and for the Virginia Department of Education, the max capacity assumes that every classroom is completely full all day long. Well, if you've ever worked in a school or been to a school, that is not the way schools work. So, sometimes kids are sick, sometimes you can only have 20 kids in a classroom, sometimes there are 28 kids in a
054classroom depending on what your school population is that year. Uh, and then of course teachers need planning time and other things throughout the day. So, you you know, you don't have a seven period day or an eight period day where the teacher is teaching every single one of those periods. So, we typically use a 0.85 85 utilization factor to go from max capacity to functional capacity, right? And and those functional capacities uh change depending on what kind of program you're using. If you're using a block schedule, your utilization factor might be as low as 75. If you're using a seven period day, it might be 085. So, we use different utilization factors to adjust to what is actually realistic for operating a school. And then as as Miss Powell said that um you know schools
055need the ability to to move students and teachers throughout the day to support different a wide variety of programs. And so um operating a school at that 80% of functional capacity or 85% um is pretty optimal and once you get beyond that it starts feeling crowded and you start having challenges with scheduling spaces in the building and things like that. So is that helpful? >> Yeah. Great. Thank you. >> I didn't know if that was there was like a formula or if it was custom based on this the school, but sounds like kind of both. >> Yeah, there's a little bit of flexibility for the Okay, thank you. >> Um Mike. Um well, sure. Well, one question to start out curiosity [clears throat] with that that total cost estimate, you know, of hund00 million, you
056know, as you said, that would be over some number of years. What if the city was providing somehow like $10 million a year for um facilities improvements and maintenance? Just to throw a theoretical example, what if any limitations would you confront in terms of project management capacity or ability to find um contractors, subcontractors, construction workers or are you not seeing that as the real binding constraint? Uh time is the problem. I would say that um getting getting that work done within a summer is not possible. Um, so we would have to have a way to stop people from being in that school for a long enough period of time that we could do the work. And when we're doing that, I would say it would make sense maybe to combine a couple of those packages
057into I don't whatever it works out to be for an entire school to get everything it needs. I think that's the way to go. In terms of um contractors, yeah, I think this is the worst world I've ever lived through. uh in terms of finding contractors to do work, but again, it's advantageous to put the most in because then you're getting a larger uh outfit to do the work, things go more efficiently in that case. I could add in so so part of what we would be doing if we did a school by school modernization program. Um what we would look at is building out a CIP again 10 15 20 year time horizon that would that would build that out both in terms of a financing plan and a construction plan. So we would
058we would match that schedule over a long period of time to staffing capacity and financing capacity. >> I guess um just some quick initial thoughts. So it sounds like, you know, enrollment is projected to slightly decrease or roughly remain the same since, you know, roughly 2010. Enrollment ended up being about flat. Um, absent enrollment, you know, there's still issues of beyond, you know, the physical student capacity, additional resources, and the spaces need there. And then maybe most important, I mean, like most of the schools have major full HVAC replacements that regardless of enrollment, if that needs to happen, that's a huge project. Um, and you know, I think about, you know, the general assembly's JAR study, which showed statewide Virginia has a backlog of over $25 billion of school construction investments that are needed. Um,
059and in their own report, they acknowledge that the state systematically underfunds school construction and they haven't fixed it. Um, so we have to figure out in that context how we still try to move things forward. But it makes me think I do think there's at least a possibility in the next several years, depending on election outcomes, we will finally have a state government that will significantly change school funding and also finally approve um approving a sales tax for school construction, which did pass with bipartisan support in the legislature, but was just vetoed by the governor. In that context, I could very easily see us having 10 million plus dollars a year for school construction. And you know, I'm just curious if we assume that case, then how do we start to plan school by school
060how to do it and kind of triage what schools do we start at first? Um cuz that's kind that was my first reaction. To me, it seems like that may be the best way to approach it. And I do think hopefully we're actually maybe a year or two away from that actually being our situation in terms of the state money available to us. Um so I think if that happens, we have to start to think like school by school and take on things like HVAC projects that eventually we're not going to be able to delay anymore. Um, Lloyd, do you have any? >> Yeah, the the question I have sort of follows on what Michael was asking about, and I'm I'm just trying to figure out what it would look like if you were to
061do one of these larger renovation projects on a particular school. Are you suggesting that we would be closing down that school for for nine months? And if so, what does anybody think would happen with those students and those teachers? >> Uh, ideally, yes, I do think we would close it down for that period of time. Um, because we're finding out that having students on an occupied an occupied construction site is a challenge. So, um, that would be the ideal. Um, and the solution I think uh probably has something to do with the uh Walker campus and I think we'll hear a presentation about that. It'll maybe shed some light on on that thought process. But I think there is a a way that we could use the existing Walker campus uh as we develop that
062site as a a landing pad for those schools. Yeah, I you know report you know I don't know if you all want to chime in as as well. I mean the the numbers are they're high but it it it cost a lot. I mean you know I think we did something similar many years ago when I was on the school board. It was like in the 70 or 80 it's not going to get cheaper and these are things that we have to do. We have older schools that they cost more um to maintain, but they're, you know, um particularly the older ones. They're really nice looking buildings. We just have to kind of figure out a way to do it with all the other needs that we have in this city. Um it's a old
063city. >> We got old pipes and stuff. We have a lot of things that we have to do, but we I mean, we just have to, you know, we just, you know, figure out a way. I think that like I mentioned it with um um hopefully we'll get the the um the tax that we can know that we can target specific projects on and you know maybe things will slow down a little bit. We have capacity but anyway we we we just have to work through it to see how we can do it. >> Quickly >> something I have a question to add. So your question for us about what you would like us to respond to, I mean yes, we want to like make our schools better. So what are the specific kind of
064points of feedback that you would like? >> I mean that's we were looking for the for reactions. Looks like Sam has some thoughts on that as well. Uh we were looking for reactions. be back at I mean there's there's again a couple different ways we can go here. We can continue down the path of doing this on an annual basis. What are we able to accomplish within a summer? We can take this holistic approach to each school and start looking at this a school by school basis. Um, we also are are are looking for your um on your reaction relative to the uh level of intervention at the school level that that that people that you all right now based based on what you know about the schools um might have an interest in pursuing.
065You know, should we be really just looking at bare bones what are the needs that need to be addressed per the slide that that Michael shared or should we looking beyond that into what do we need to do to actually modernize these school buildings? >> Right. How much triage do we want to do before weartedly >> fix fix it? >> Yeah. >> Um >> as well as just appreciating the idea that the um how did you refer to it, Mike? the the baseline is hund00 million. >> So that's one thing uh to have a reaction to the sense that it would take that and that's not perfection. That's not all school facilities being these new spaceships that land and take care of our kids. >> I mean yeah I think given the fact that the
066viewer project was 70 I don't think 100 is a shock to any of us. It's just are we spending that in three years or we spend that in 20 years that's all >> you know and how much of that is coming from state. Yep. >> Or orus. >> So it's it's the amount that is required. It it will be about the sources in which we use to take care of them. And then of course I always remind you that is in contrast to however many other priorities that are on the list and how do we make them offer? >> Yeah. So I guess we're not being asked to vote on anything today because this is all >> eliminated. >> Just looking for reaction there. There's more. So we're going to go ahead and shift. Right.
067And I should point out that uh project cost for Buford is actually 91 million. >> Right. >> Just to keep it in context. >> Um I do also want to just note something that um was mentioned at the beginning um which I know we've heard before and is cool to see theory happen in real life where as more dense housing was built, there was a shift from where people lived. So students were able to go into the new buildings and then families were able to move into the neighborhoods. And as um which is kind of the whole point, that's that's the goal, having people rightsize what what their housing needs are. And as um uh Juan alluded to, there's the empty bedroom problem of neighborhoods that used to have whole families. Now the kids have
068moved out and their former bedrooms are not housing kids anymore. And there's not a shift to um I'm not saying you all have to leave your family homes, but there's not that shift to rightsize that scenario because those spaces don't yet exist. You know, people don't have the the backyard units that they can move into and then let a family live in the bigger house they used to live in or whatever. That that is all still hopefully things we'll see as our zoning code adjusts and we see more development and infill within our city. So all of that, like we were talking about in the beginning, the housing of it all is going to be something that we pay attention to very closely because that will affect enrollment and enrollment patterns and also birth rates.
069When there's more affordable housing, people will consider having children. That's a broader nationwide issue, but is not is not incorrect and will affect affect. But it's cool to see that that actually worked. Yeah. the student. >> I'd like to point out also the elephant in the room as far as these numbers go. Um, these are enrollment numbers based on our current schools. When you modernize and improve a school, there are people in this community whose kids aren't enrolled in public schools. And there's a tipping point for each of those families. And when this school gets nicer, I'm not saying it's all about the buildings, but I think it's fair to say that some of it is. And when these things change, then suddenly you've got a different enrollment pattern. I'm very curious to see what
070happens to Charlesville Middle School. Uh, you know, does everybody stay in private schools over time that currently is or do they start to come back when they see this great new school building? I don't know. >> So, I wanted um the school board get There we go. Um I can actually view this presentation and then it would be helpful for us to be able to respond holistically. Okay. Thank you. >> And I would just very briefly say just my reaction is I feel like it would make sense to begin to prepare a plan for modernizing each individual school and then plan that thinking about it being operationalized when and if the state makes substantially more money available. The sales tax alone I think would be around $10 million annually just for school construction. But I
071do think it makes sense to start planning for modernization of each individual school. And looking through it, every single school required a major HVAC replacement. There's really not a choice when I see that besides moving beyond just doing things over the summer. Can we add in when you get a pilot from UVA also? Yes, but I'm I'm more optimistic we'll get the uh money from the state before UVA. But all right, I'm going to hand this over um to Maria Beninsky. uh she's uh well she'll introduce herself but she's an architect at VMBBO and she's been shephering us through our uh planning process for the Walker campus in the middle of the prek. >> Right. >> Good evening everyone. >> Good evening. >> Uh Mike said I'm Maria. I've been um working at BMDO a
072very long time and with the Charlottesville city schools for coming up on a decade I think here which is pretty wild. Um so uh the past um I guess maybe four months or so um we've been asked to look at um the Walker campus and kind of a dual track uh study here. We've been looking at the early learning center which will house the preschool classrooms for Charlottesville city schools. Very exciting. Um and at the same time we were asked to look at a master plan for the campus. Um over the past 6 months or so, the visioning happening within the city schools and public works for this site has really been developing and some needs have been identified um that potentially could be served on this site. Um so the ask for us was
073to come back at our early learning center design that we had worked on in um 2021 2022 during the reconfiguration planning and adjust it um as needed um to test out can we fit that early learning center plus a number of additional uses that I'll get into in this presentation um next I guess unless I can advance. You're advancing. Okay. um Walker campus of course located um at the north end of town right by the bypass uh not far from Charlottesville High School. Next um here's a site aerial uh Rose Hill Drive tease into this site at the south. Gentry Lane runs along its west edge and along its east edge is a busy road known as the 250 bypass. Um and McIntyre Park is just across the bypass from the site. Next. So, here
074are the uses that we were asked to look at um fitting into the Walker site. Um some are on site already and some are new ideas to bring to the site. Um next, I'm going to go through them one by one with you. Central office. So, currently there is of course a central division office at the north end of the site. Um central office does have an issue though where they actually can only fit about half of their staff within this office building. So the other half are in the lower level of Charlottesville High School. Um a challenge of course for operations. Um and there's a desire to one day be able to bring all the staff together so they could be in one building and also to free up that space within Charlottesville High
075School so it could be dedicated to academic use. Next pool. Uh this is an existing facility in the southeast corner of the site. Um there's a in addition to the pool itself, there's some recreational spaces. Um it's used for some after school programming uh at times over the years. Um and you know it's an existing parks and wreck asset. I think there's visioning ongoing about what the future of it should be. Um but it is serving the community at this time and overtime has been used occasionally by students on the Walker campus and that could continue to be the case into the future. Next, the early learning center. That's going to be a lot of the focus of what I talk to you about this evening. Um, and we're looking at a, you know, new
076purpose-built home, um, for Charlottesville's youngest learners. Um, this is a really big deal. This is bringing all the preschool staff, leadership, and resources, which has been they've been spread across the six neighborhood elementaryaries to date. Um, into one building that's purpose-built for young learners whose needs and academic patterns are very different from elementary schoolers, middle schoolers, etc. So, um, very exciting new project. Next, okay, Lugo McInness Academy. This is Charlottesville City School's alternative high school program. Um, it's currently about the scale of 30 students and has been overs subscribed for a very long time. There have been waiting lists and, you know, there hadn't really been a hope that it could expand to meet the need of those waiting lists. Um they're working on developing a night school that still isn't going to take care
077of everyone on the waiting list. Um so when you know people started to brainstorm about this site um the existence of the gym here uh really opens up the possibility for Lugo McInness to be located here because they need a gymnasium and there other there's other existing uh space on the site that they could use existing buildings um without a slated use in the future. Um so this was something that really prompted um the request to us to kind of reinvision how could the site be used. Um and not only you know the existing facilities which are assets that could be used by McInness with the light renovation there's also the location of Walker fairly proximate to Charlottesville High School and also to the K-tech um center. So that's seen as an asset as well.
078Next and then elementary swing space and this came up earlier. So, um the idea that those re renovations which um might occur at the elementary schools could be achieved much more economically, much more quickly with much less pain um if an entire school is able to move out um to a swing space uh for a year, year and a half while their building is under construction. Um so these this is all kind of the handful of different site uses that we were requested to look at. Um, next, um, before we dig into the phasing and the different, uh, locations of those uses, uh, I'm going to go into the early childhood, the early learning center, pardon me, um, in a little bit of detail with you next. Next. Okay. So, um, we've just con completed
079concept design for this, which would be the first phase of the master plan. Um this project for the early learning center is the next major investment in Charlottesville city schools facilities that's upcoming um for our city. And you know the whole idea is make sure we do it in a way that allows this all of the site potential to um still unfold in the future. We're not doing something that cuts off some possibility. So the master plan is not something that's prescriptive saying we must do all these steps. It's something where we show possibilities and as we complete each step we make sure we're doing it in a way which does not um you know block uh future developments which might be desirable. Next, uh, and just a reminder, um, probably everyone's familiar, but, uh,
080this early learning center is, uh, the completion of the reconfiguration process that's being put in place to complete the reconfiguration that was started with the Charlottesville Middle School project, which is going to bring together grades six, seven, and 8 um near Cherry on the Cherry Avenue site. Um, elementaryaries will host grades K through 5. And then um the preschool center will um now to be called the early Charlottesville early learning center um will be the home for all of those preschool classrooms that have been spread across the six elementaryaries. And you know, there's this idea that we're not just reconfiguring grades as we do this. We're uplifting our facilities. And each time we put someone into a new space, we're making sure that that space is the best it can be um to in order
081to support their development, their health, um teacher retention, all of those things that um a good facility can do for us. Next, um and early childhood is a pretty facility inensive endeavor. uh classrooms for this age group are larger than your typical elementary classroom and a lot of that is because they're not reading yet and their curriculum is physical. There a lot of different materials, equipment um that are needed um curriculum that cycles through for different lessons and then needs to be put into storage because they're really learning from, you know, they're not doing paper and pencil all day. They they really are learning by doing and touching and moving and building. Um and then they also need direct access from those classrooms to boiler rooms. That's a very big deal for logistics and also
082for the development of children's sense of autonomy um ability to care for themselves and do what they need to do without adult gatekeepers, you know, taking them down the hall. Next, um, and we believe that it's really worth the investment to create these appropriate spaces for them because, um, you know, these early years, three and four years old, it's a very consequential time for growth and learning for, um, a young person and can really, um, impact their trajectory moving through the rest of their academic career and and their life. Next, the scale of the center that's being proposed for the Walker site is 20 classrooms. Um, this allows a little bit of growth, but it's essentially maintaining the existing scope of services. Um, uh, it was um given to us a charge so to make
083sure that however we do the design, uh, we need to be able to uh provide for a future expansion of about 12 classrooms. And that's so that uh in the future if our operational funding um were made available, we could increase the size of the three-year-old program to match the size of the four-year-old program. And that's because a 2-year experience where you get to be there as a three-year-old and four-year-old is shown to have um a great benefit um for outcomes in in preschool. Next. Okay, so back to the Walker site where this is all happening. Um we've got building A labeled here. That's the main classroom building that has a cafeteria in its lower level. Next, building B, that's the auditorium building. It also houses classrooms for visual and performing arts. There's a functional
084skills classroom in there as well. Next, building C is the gymnasium to the south there. Next, Crow Pool is in that uh southeast corner of the site. Next. And the central admin building is up in that north corner of the site. Next. So, starting about a year from now, um, all the preschool classes in Charlottesville City Schools will be taking place in building A without much significant renovation of any kind. They're just using it as is, as a swing space. um while next the construction of the new facility um occurs right next to them. Um so [clears throat] if everything stays on schedule, you know, that means about a year of design and then a couple years of construction and next in fall 2028, they will start school in their new facility. Um, and we've
085worked [clears throat] on this concept design not only to try to stay out of the way of other site uses that you'll you'll see in a little bit. Um, but also to [clears throat] try to tackle one of the major challenges of this site, which is it really lacks outdoor play and learning space at the level of the classrooms. So, we worked hard to provide that amenity um to the new building and then also actually improving the case for building A uh somewhat as well. So, um you'll see, you know, we we're entering, excuse [clears throat] me, um the new early learning center, um from a bus loop that's facing north there. You can see the red triangle that's pointing at the entry. So, it's a a front door on Gentry Road, not far from
086the existing building A entry. And then there are series of um terraces. Um so, each level of classrooms, and there are three levels, that step all the way down to that playing field level that's kind of at the the center of the site. Um each of those offers every classroom in the building immediate access to outdoor learning play space that's secured um development developmentally appropriate um you know spaces for for play and learning. It's really an outdoor classroom. Next >> um one quick question. Will that road have to be relocated? I'm trying to think of for building a to the road. Um is enough space there? >> Yes. So, um there is there there's a um retaining wall involved basically in um moving, you know, >> cuz it's going to be like right up to
087the current building. >> Yes. Pretty close. So, um yeah, actually, and if we go on, you'll be able to see the the entry landscape a little bit. Um but essentially, there's a bunch of land on the site um that is a hillside right now. And so we're we're suggesting that you cut into that hill to create part of that bus loop. Um you know the retaining wall I think on average we said five or six feet tall. It's not a gigantic retaining wall. Um but it is it is a big site move in order to create that appropriate entry landscape um at the front door which building A really lacks right now as it exists. Um and the new building as you probably noticed is a majority of it is going on the existing parking
088lot that's by building A. Um so there are some big site moves involved to make this work and that yes a good an astute note there. Um so this is looking from the south um at the new facility. Uh the gym roof you can see on the lower right of the image. Uh building a a south facade that includes that um opening to the cafeteria. You can see in the upper right um you see the roof terraces I mentioned. There's a central spine of sight circulation through the middle there. And you can see the connector over to building A. Um, and that allows building A, whoever is in there, to make use of our elevator that connects all three levels of the site. Again, that vertical movement across the site has been a big challenge.
089So, um, trying to really heal that up with this project. Um, and the project also creates a terrace, a roof terrace at the level of the cafeteria in building A. You've been in that cafeteria and stepped out, there's really not an outdoor space at the scale of that um, cafeteria room. Uh, and this provides that. um as well as these other site connections. Next, you can see we've matched the building levels. I didn't tell I didn't tell Mike we didn't talk ahead of time, but yeah. [laughter] So, we have matched the new building levels to building A um so that they can make the most of the vertical circulation um between the two of them. Um and this is a front door shot of the new early learning center with green signage above. Um so
090we're standing with building A is on our left. Um the new bus loop is to our right and the big hillside um along Gentry. U the you know open site circulation down through the site. You see in the slot there we could pass under that connector to building A. Um if we have time we could check in. People have questions on this, I can just flow through to the master plan. >> Oh, is that you? Is that the last time? >> This is the end of the concept design portion and then I can lead you through the master plan. >> We have about 15 minutes, so it's quickly any questions from council. >> Okay. >> All right. And the master plan will put some of this in context, too. All right. So, next slide, please.
091I think we all agree though it looks really nice. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Um wonderful. Uh we've had a lot of fun with it over the past month for sure. Um okay, so how does this early learning center design fit into a larger plan for the Walker site? Um again, here are site uses that I described earlier. Next, um today's picture where we're using buildings A, B, and C for Walker Upper Elementary. Um admin is on the north pro on um the lower right of the image southeast. Next talked about the early learning center already moving into building a swing space next and that will be through um spring of 2028. This is uh this diagram represents the new early learning center that we were just looking at opening in fall of 2028. That's a
092completion of what we're calling phase one of the the master plan. Next. Um, and then we're saying that with a year-long project, um, a light renovation, building B could become the home of the Lugo McInness Academy. Um, and that would give them use of the gymnasium. Um, we're proposing that they would have outdoor recreational and learning space. Um, as you can see, kind of in an L shape. Um, that's that light orange to the east and to the south of the building. So really that central courtyard that's currently in the black top is dedicated to younger students. Um and they have their own space apart from that. Um next uh and then space three here represents the use of building A as that elementary swing space. Um and building A has I think 28 classrooms
093on the upper level. Um and so and it's been operating as a 600 student school. So any of these elementaryaries that we have in in the city should be able to use this in a reasonable fashion for a year or a year and a half as needed. Um however you'll notice that up at the north of the site we're not seeing the admin building anymore bringing you know we've got early learning center Luga McInness when we bring this third school to the site um we're showing that you need some additional parking for the staff. Um, and so that north end of the site, um, we've taken to develop that parking. Um, and we're putting the administrative office space that's currently there into the lower level of building A in this scenario. And this phase could
094last from 6 to 10 years, um, you know, depending on how long it takes to get through all those renovations. So, it's a a long-term scenario. Next. Um, and then finally, if it were desired, Mugo McInness has space to do a little bit of expansion. And ideally, um, you would do a kind of connector piece with a an elevator. And, you know, these projects have different orders, but, um, there's not great access for um, someone in a wheelchair to building B right now. Um there's an ability to build a bit of a lobby with an elevator that can get someone from that row parking up into the site um and to the the different levels uh that exist there. Uh and then next um see and so then in phase five there's that expansion we
095talked about of the the preschool center uh into building A. So that connector that we built becomes an active back and forth for the preschool center and we finally build the central admin space um so that all of the staff can come together um currently showing them in that yellow portion. They said they said put us last >> they said schools first um >> but you know at the scale of 12 classrooms we don't need the whole of building A for the preschool expansion. Um so the space the built space is there and um this would give central admin uh its own front door facing north adjacent to that parking that was developed in the prior phase. Um next. So overall um you know we've worked and believe like that we've really shown that it's
096possible to accommodate multiple uses on this site. Um and in a sense it's so sloped it's almost better to have multiple small uses than be trying to span the whole site with you know one institution. Um we have reused existing buildings. So the only building demolition that's involved in this plan is that small admin building. Every other building is maintained and reused um for a meaningful purpose. Um we've improved site circulation, provided some vehicle loops that are much needed. Um, we've located outdoor space for students directly outside the buildings that they are in. Um, and we believe there are multiple multiple off-ramps, which is a good phrase we got from the schools. None of these phases require that the next phase be built. So, it's all possibilities, not necessities. Um, and so, yeah, we're excited
097to have been able to to work on this uh project with with the schools. Um, next and we're at questions. So, if I could I just quickly jump in to just frame that um and I'm not trying to trigger anybody, but the FEI conversation that we had just a few months ago really really caused some reimagination to be possible to happen. And that site specifically triggered a lot of, well, what would we do if we got that piece of property? How could that make a difference? losing that property. We did not lose that energy. We actually just redirected it to the Walker site. And as you see, that's where all of this has really come from. The the focus has been on we have talked about and this this community has been prepared for the
098idea that the crow was to be demolished. That was discussed some time ago. While we still know that a decision ultimately has to be made, it was slated for demolition. this original design called for the gymnasium and the auditorium to be demolished and we push back into well what else might we be able to do based on what came out of that FBI conversation. So we're here looking at that particular slide because we were kind of given that opportunity. So, I'll thank the federal government for at least triggering that part of the conversation uh because it really made us be a little bit more creative and I actually appreciate the moment that it calls for us because we were able to go back to the designs and say, well, what if what might be possible
099if we did this? And that's how you have what the MDL just presented. So, just wanted to point that out to you and just saying now we got to figure out how to pay for it, but at least we figured out what it could be. I'll let you go up first. >> All right. Um, we'll have a chance to provide some programmatic feedback to Dr. Gurley and his team based on that. So, I think this conversation is going to be more directed with what we want council to hear from us. Um, I don't know it's the technology in our time, but I think one slide that I just would love us to be able to go back to is what the dollar investment early results in. Um, and I just hope that that isn't lost.
100I don't have to sit in your seat and figure out exactly how to fund this. Um, you know, our job is to advocate for our schools and our students, um, who are also your citizens. And I think paying attention to what that dollar investment equates one of what does it say $7 and um anyway so uh Mr. Myers go ahead. >> No I appreciate this. I was just say this vision looks great to me and let's go in my mind. Uh sorry Dr. Gurley you're going to have to wait 20 years. Uh but maybe incentive to keep you around. No, but uh council colleagues, you know, I was speaking for myself, you know, I think this is ambitious vision here and again I think a lot of us want great opportunities and I think I
101heard a lot of comments from you all earlier that we do need to modernize and we're completely agreement there and um I know you know if we have to get a referendum for sales tax and this is the vision I would be very behind helping you all sell that and and again walking hand in hand with you to again help sell to the public too. So, um, thanks. >> Yeah, thank you. Um, thank you for all of this. Nice to see you, Maria. Good to see you. >> Um, I I guess I wanted to roll back a little bit when you were talking about Mr. Freeze, the options or I don't know if it was your mic, the options of whole building um, renovation or upgrades and the time that it would take to do
102that study. Was it three to five years? I heard you all I'm sorry. Could you say that one more time? >> So, I believe when you initially presented the option of looking at just doing the minimal upgrades um and continuing to do just the improvement programs per site or per school as opposed to looking at doing a whole school um upgrade or modernization. And I thought I heard one of you say that it would take three to five years to do that cost estimate study. Is that for all of the schools? I maybe >> it wouldn't take us that long. Um I I think we could I mean I don't I would say year minus is more the time frame. I I think I don't think it would take anywhere near that long to do
103that kind of analysis >> for each for each school or >> Well, no to for a I would say we should probably look at it holistically and kind of present, you know, all of them as a as a package and then we could choose, you know, the sequencing based on need and whatever, you know, school board and council is interested in. >> So, and at some point, I'm assuming Mr. Sanders and Dr. Gurley, you're looking for some guidance from school board and then council. Um, you all are listening to us as far as which direction we would like to go, right? Absolutely. So I think um once that assessment is done um you know I mean of course the the funding part you know will be the bigger issue but I think we do as
104a school division we will need to prioritize like what's what's urgent um and then make that recommendation um to the city to the city. >> I'd agree with that. we we would always want to hear the recommendation from schools and and that in itself becomes a important piece for us uh to then try to factor in what are the choices, what are the options. Um as I continue to say to council, I'm here to frame it and then they have to tell me which way we're going to go and then we will do. Uh and I think that's really why it was important for us to make sure that this conversation happened now leading into this retreat that they're going to have. uh because they have the big ticket items to discuss and then to
105really just figure out how hard are we pulling each of these levers because each one of them has a lot of money attached to them and it may be that we could get them all done just in different degrees or different schedules. I think that's really what we're trying to get to. So I wouldn't say we're looking for an answer or a direction just yet. It really is more about reaction to what you're seeing and hearing and is it the right direction that you want to go in? Does it check the boxes that you had to prioritize when you made the decision to serve in this capacity? >> Yeah. And I guess I'm I'm curious and I know that we have another CIP meeting in June, next month, I believe. But I'm looking at some
106of the work that that is slated to be done and specifically like the amount of money to upgrade HVAC systems. That's a lot of money, right? And if we're going to do that and then still consider doing something more or upgrading or modernizing individual schools, I mean, at what point or what, you know, I mean, this is a conversation obviously that we all need to continue to have, which direction do we want to head? And then I think about the middle school, state-of-the-art, beautiful building soon, and we're rolling into our early learning center, which I know will be state of the art, you know, as far as and it's so important to start out with those littles, but I think our students in between those two spots deserve the same thing. Um, and and there's
107so much more that we can do for those students as far as state-of-the-art learning. um you know just the quality of the educational spaces. So that's kind of where I'm leaning um is look looking to tackle those buildings and not just put band-aids on them. Nice bandaids. >> Thank you. Um Mr. Sanders and Dr. Fairley appreciate you bringing this to the forefront. I know at least in my time we have not had a substantive serious conversation about this and so I appreciate you bringing it forth um and look forward to speaking with my colleagues and better understanding what we um would look for for our students in the division. Um, I do just want to draw some correlation here. Um, when we talk in our community about what our priorities are, um, in the spaces
108of public housing and affordable housing and services and refurbishing our jail and putting money into that that um, this really is about how we start a conversation about education. And if we don't get that right and we don't afford our children the opportunity to learn in a safe environment with, you know, modern facilities and teachers that are proud to be in our district, then I think that's where we get the trickle down effect of not um being able to provide those services. And so I'm happy that we're having that conversation and um hopefully one mitigates the other when we start to do better in our schools and in our facilities. So, I appreciate the conversation. Thank you. >> So, looking something to say. >> Thank you. Okay. >> Yeah. Um, yes. Well, welcome back everybody.
109Um, I do want to say that I believe that these improvements will impact our students learning experiences and I'm truly excited to see the new designs come to life. That's it. have a great day. >> Um, so um I think that um for council I think that looking at the time um do we have a close call session? >> Yes, but it's short so that's your call. >> So I guess we have another I guess maybe another 15 minutes if you want to check. >> Um I have just two questions. Um, one is, uh, you had mentioned that about half the admin, uh, staff are at CHS, while half are at Walker. And one of the things that Mr. Goddard pointed out was how big CHS is. I double checked the numbers for capacity, and
110CHS is pushing capacity the most out of all the schools, but yet also is big. Is there was the conversation ever had about moving admin to CHS since it has more space or we need that for for the high schoolers and classrooms? >> There's no space to move admin to CHS. I mean we would be moving right now we refer to the bottom of the of CHS as the annex. So, we would move staff out um and that would give us a little bit of room, but there's definitely not enough space to move the entire central administration to CHS >> and that space would be able to be repurposed for capacity issues for students. >> Yeah, it would give us a little bit a little bit of room, but I always remind Mr. Sanders that
111um it's not exactly um it's it's it's not exactly what we would need to >> uh build something state-of-the-art for our students. >> Yeah. Okay. And then um for how does transportation work if we're consolidating prek to one building and are the littles good to ride the buses? Do they do that now? How does how do we collect them? Do we have enough bus drivers for that? What is the how does that work since it moves them from their neighborhoods to one central location? >> So they would they continue to receive bus service as they do now. Now they ride the bus with their elementary peers. Um and we have already based on our current number of drivers which um we still need more drivers hiring always but um right now what we would be
112looking at doing is running we would need to move the preschool uh transportation basically onto what we call the middle school tier. We run transportation in three tiers. So basically the bus a single bus driver will go out and do an elementary route then they'll do a walker Buford or middle route and then they'll do a high school route. And so what we're going to need to do is move the preschool timing right now would have to go on that middle school tier. That's the way we're seeing that come together. >> And where where would the middle school tier? >> So it it falls in between basically the way the buses are scheduled. Um it it really defines the start times for the schools, but um right now our elementary schools start around 7:30, the
113middle schools start around 8, and the high schools on 9:00. And so basically we would be taking the preschool the the new early learning center would have a start time that would need it would by necessity right now based on our number of drivers need to fall on that middle tier because we do need to provide bus service. >> As as a former CHS student I strongly recommend we keep CHS at 90 and no earlier. >> Thank you. >> Michael, did you have anything quick? Yeah, I would I would uh I I appreciate when life happens, you have to keep moving on. And uh I appreciate that the FBI situation helped trigger these thoughts. Um because I do think this is a significant opportunity to seriously plan for systemwide modernization. Um, it does still make
114me think the fact that UVA taking FI, you know, increases the cost of doing this as well as took that property off the tax rules when UVA already avoids paying over $20 million annually in taxes, which alone would pay for this entire plan. Um, but that aside, um, I would say my reaction still to me, um, this seems like a really exciting opportunity. it would seem to make sense to plan for modernizing all the schools. I don't know if that's done on a school by school case or if it makes more sense to do that systemwide and then we decide, you know, which ones we prioritize. I do think it makes a lot of sense to move into doing that with the caveat that it's probably only feasible to begin operationalizing it, funding it once
115the state allows us to get some additional money for school construction. Uh just the the obvious fact is that if we get the right to have a 1% sales tax to finance school construction at current figures that's about $13 million a year. U and that would enable this plan to work basically. And if it doesn't, we would have the only way to do it would be unless we're going to cut $13 million from other parts of the budget is to raise taxes by effectively about 10 or 11 cents on real estate rate, which I think is is going to be politically inre. So, uh we've got at least the three things we're going to be talking about in the in the retreat. Uh housing is something we've made a $10 million a year commitment to.
116Here we're talking about another 10 plus million a year. And if we're going to do transit, that's going to be probably another $10 million a year. Uh we don't really have $30 million$20 million at this point. So kind of going to have some difficult issues to confront particularly if we don't get the ability to impose that satisfaction. Uh, and I'll just chime in that um I'm impressed by the work, the detail that VMDO did. You know, that you can do one things get kind of hairy. You could you don't have to it's not dependent on the the other one. Um, you know, the next project. So, I'm really impressed with the thoughtfulness that went in went into it. Been trying to get some admin spaces for a long time. So, um, looks like it it'll
117be everything. We're excited we'll have some, but it'll be down the road to flip it. But really impressed with the work that was done. So, thank thankfully the partnership. >> One small question. Sorry, not that small actually. Um, are there any legal constraints about why we couldn't also build housing on top of schools >> or allow housing to be built? Not necessarily. >> Do you mean like at that site there or just in general? >> In g I mean, we've got a lot of school building projects coming up. What if they were at the bottom couple floors of a tall urban complex full of teachers and, you know, families and I think that's Yeah. I mean, I not to bring FEI up again, but I'll bring it up. Um, there was like housing conversations about
118the FBI space they had. I mean, it was a hotel, right? And so, a conference center. And so, I think how we can have that kind of conversation about how we potentially um incorporate housing for our teachers as part of their benefit structure. Um, I think that's a fair conversation to have as well. >> Or just acknowledging that these are big plots of land scattered nicely throughout the city that have a lot of vertical space that is not being utilized. What does that look like and is when is the time to incorporate that thought process? >> I'll just say that we have talked about it. So, is it lost on us? I'll take him off the hook. I guess just following up on that point really quick. If we find that the formally summit I
119for I forgot, excuse me, formally clock mail summit. I had it right. I had it right. Um if that site is not working for us, maybe that's a consideration as well as housing turning it from a school to housing. >> Nice. >> I just Yeah, this is a big project. We're at the beginning of primary conversations with it and I don't want to think of this in 5 years when maybe it's something that could be good. Let me start. >> It is something I know that has come up in Alexandria. We've seen conversations about >> Do you mind talking? >> I I know that's been explored in um Alexandria. We've seen with the Minih Howard project. Um I will say you know from what I know architecturally it will make the school construction more expensive.
120Um separating the occupancies u and increasing the project size to basically the bigger you build your building uh the longer it has to last in a fire so people can get out. So you end up paying for more fire resistive construction than you would for a smaller spool. You know of course that's ignoring the cost of land which is very significant. I I do think, you know, just off the cuff with the resoning, we um basically a school needs a big site um and housing can happen on a smaller site. So, I know there's the idea that so much of our land has been locked up in single family homes on sites. And um I think it's pretty interesting to to look at a multi-use site like that for a school, but I think we've
121just started to unlock all of this very low-rise um development land for housing. So it makes sense to equally um kind of scrutinize are there ways um to build smaller scale solutions where we're densifying at the scale of duplex, quadplex, things like that which will be just per square foot of construction cost. Those are going to be more affordable housing projects to build them. um you know the larger scale that increases the complexity >> and I I think they're not mutually exclusive like that is all happening >> but and and >> in theory we're building the school portion and someone else is providing dollars to build the rest of it we are giving them access to the space and there's some kind of land lease agreement or whatever where we are not paying for the
122construction of the housing >> so it you know the added cost of you know extra foundation or something is maybe a shared thing. You know, I don't how that partnership would work or how that's been done in you said Alexandria. >> Uh I know that we looked at some studies that were going on there. I don't know if they actually achieved the mixed use there, but it was being proposed as something that was supposed to be explored on the site for a new uh high school facility. So, it it is something that people are looking at certainly in dense areas could be worth exploring here too. >> We're going to have to get ready to wrap up the >> Sure. So, just um thank you for putting this together. Um to both of you and
123all of the folks that work for our school system in the city. Um we appreciate council's interest in this ongoing conversation. Um I think Mr. Meyer alluded to this, but to the extent that we can help um in advocating to the state and leading up into November uh to increase state funding for our schools, we are more than happy to do so and would look forward to that work. I would just say regardless of the outcome of the election in November, we have projects in our schools that have to happen. Uh and so we look forward to hearing more after your retreat uh that's upcoming. Uh and with that, I will call the school board of this meeting. Um and and likewise, I think this sets us up for um some great discussion um for
124um um the 15th. And so now um will you read us in the close session by >> jumping ahead on the motion? >> Um pursuant to section 2.23712 of the Virginia code, I move that the city council close this open meeting and convene a close sessions authorized by the Virginia Freedom of Information Act as follows. Pursuant to Virginia code section 2.237 3711A1 for discussion consideration of prospective candidates to be appointed to the following boards and/or committees the police civilian oversight board and the planning commission. Okay. >> So moved. >> Yes. >> Okay. All those approved say yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. We'll come back at 6:30. Thank you.