001It just you just got to pick your year. you're going to be good and somebody start ran down there. I went down there when we had some good potential down there. They run a good team and they run the 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th guy and and when when they came over the hill, >> not counting top 10, >> the first five guys come over the hill and the second 11 12 13 14 is not responding to me. It was a good >> I mean it's always good to go and hear the information with like other school boards actually anywhere. I would like to call our November 4th work session to order and start with the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic
002for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. And now a moment of silence. cross country runners, Alec and his bunny. Somebody else. >> All right. Uh, first up under discussions, we have our student services well-being screener. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Um, I'm Julie Backer, executive director of student services. We all know each other, but just for the sake of the audience, and I'd like to introduce Maria. >> Hi, everyone. I'm Maria Huber. I'm the project aware coordinator. Um and the survey that Julie and I will be talking about is being fully funded um or plan to be fully funded through our project aware grant mental health grant. So today we're just going to talk about compassion and action and a huge part of our
003practice is being data informed. And so I'll draw your attention to the slides. Again, everything that we do is grounded in our schoolboard rules of our strategic plan of compassionate care and support. I highlighted those specific areas in the strategic plan that align with the idea of giving an assessment or a survey, excuse me, to determine students feelings of safety and belonging and use this data to inform practices. So, this is part of our strategic plan. And then again um project aware goal really rooted in one of the goals is our sense of belonging and emotional regulation and provide ongoing professional learning for staff on effective behavior response strategies and mental health support. And so the first few slides are just going to ground our work and how it aligns to um the state model.
004And as you can see, the state has decided that there are five characteristics that are most important to um students lifelong success, academic mastery, career, post-secondary readiness, communication and collaboration, work ethic, civic, financial and digital literacy. And our work and survey will be rooted in communication and collaboration and work ethic. >> Oh, hi. Sorry. >> No one need to apologize. Um, again, I wanted to just point out that the mental health aspect of the work is to cultivate trusted relationships between students and school staff, provide access to school-based mental health services and community providers, and engage parents and students in bullying prevention. And this comes from the advancing comprehensive school mental health work. We know that this work helps provide a safer school for all students. some core features of comprehensive support. So, schools are
005natural settings for collaboration across partners to promote student well-being. And so, we um again want to hear how students are feeling about collaboration, how the use of the multi-tered systems of support, screening and referral, and evidence-based uh and emerging best practices are supporting our students. And so, this survey really highlights the use of screening and referral, although please note that it is nonidentifiable. So the survey that we give students will not be identifiable and we'll say that several times just to reiterate that um again not only you know thinking about mental health but also school counseling and the American standards of school um counselors um there are a lot of standards rooted in mindsets for students and some [clears throat] of the questions that you'll see in this survey really revolve around um a student's
006feeling of safety a sense of acceptance do they have self-confidence in their own ability to succeed Ed, a lot of the questions um support that. And then again, this just aligns with um our behavior standards for student success. And again, these are all key components of a comprehensive student services program where we use data to inform the work that we do. We don't just, oh, they seem like they're not doing well or we have a hunch, but we really want to know how students are feeling. much in the same way that we gathered and I shared at the uh September board meeting about staff surveys and feelings um surrounding mental health in our district. So we wanted a survey that was rooted in um these three areas you know is it accurate? Can we trust
007the results? Is it well researched? We are going to get data to see if our um we call it tier one in education but it's the practice and the work that we do for all students. That's what that means. So, we want a survey that lets us know just kind of a dipstick to let us know um by grade level, school, and across the district. Is the work that we're doing surrounding behavior and culture and climate and um students feeling like they belong, is it working? Is what we're doing really like we think students are um behaving better or coming to school, our attendance is great, but is it really working? Um we want to be consistent. So, we wanted a survey that had the same procedure format across all 10 schools. So, K12 and
008we wanted something that was quick. We don't want to take instructional time away uh any more than we have to to make sure that we can get a sense of how students are doing. So, this survey um Maria's going to get into the nuts and bolts of the survey, but it takes probably 20 to 30 minutes to take depending on the age group. So, we want to assess less and teach more. Um and that's just across the board. So, take a look. You've seen us invert a pyramid before. So we spent a lot of the work last year really developing that top row best practices and we are now working with counselors and social workers on year two tier 2. So if you think of the top row as 95% of our students responding to
009the interventions that we have in place for what's best for all students, that next level would uh hopefully be about 4% of our students and how they're responding. These are ideal numbers. Sometimes it feels as if 80 students are responding and we have 20%. So we don't want that because we don't have the capacity to support that. And then the larger bottom part of the pyramid would be tier three which is another academic term just means students need more support beyond um more targeted and long-term support for um you know for for our students in tier three. I guess the best way to say that I try not to use tier one, two, tier and three, but that's what we say all the time. So, um, again, focus on belonging and emotional regulation. So, this
010is a part of our Noblesville strategic plan. We're aiming for February for this survey. Um, we hope to do it. Uh, right now, principles are letting us know when they would like us to have that. We are requiring optin. February is the earliest we can do it if we follow Indiana code for opting into survey. So what that means is we will provide parents, we will be completely transparent. We'll provide them access to the survey. They will see it. They will be able to review it and then they will opt their student in and we will have 21 days to do that. And then we'll we will remind them of this. That date is January 5th. So if we start at December 15th, 21 days and then January 5th, we will ask them again, do
011you want your student to participate in this survey? Again, it's not identifiable. We hope you do. Then we will wait 10 more days and then parents have essentially opted in. They can still decline anywhere up to the, you know, the final day of the or the day of the survey, but we um assume if parents don't reach out, then they have opted in. >> And can I add to that? So that um those windows that Julie mentioned are outlined explicitly in Indiana code. So, we must give parents this first 21day window to consent or decline participation of their student in the survey. Any parents who don't respond, either consenting or declining, we are required to give them that follow-up reminder and then they have those 10 calendar days. So, the February screening is because we
012backwards planned. In fact, we've made our windows slightly longer um because this is the first time we'll be offering this um this screener or this survey. So, um it's actually a little bit more um more conservative than than Indiana code, but we want to be as transparent and open as possible. >> This also aligns with the board uh policy board C225. >> So, just to confirm, if they don't respond to the second notification, then that you assume they opt in. >> Correct. But at any point they can contact the the school or use we're going we're going to use electronic consent form. So at any point they can still complete that form and say I consent or I decline. But if there's no response at all by the time the student screens they're considered opted
013in per Indiana code. >> Okay. >> This will be a electronic link on their iPad and we are setting it up so students whose parents have said no we don't want you to participate. they won't have access to that link. The technology department is helping us do that. >> What will the students be doing who opt in? >> Great. Excellent question. So, we are informing we have in our mind through the principles who's going to be doing this and so those folks aren't aware yet. Um but it's they will have um lesson plans designed for students who are not doing it. Again, it's only we're looking at um you know those times in the day that are already carved out within that 20 to 30 minute period. So, we're not taking away instructional time. Or
014if it's in, for example, a tech class at the elementary school, they'll have tech activities to work on instead of the survey. >> Okay. >> Well, how many how many people might opt out? What's or do we know? I mean, I know I'm getting ahead of the horse. [laughter] >> Well, I guess I don't know. It'll be my first time Okay. delivering a survey in Noblesville schools. So, I don't have a lot of experience. It's also not identifiable. So, I feel in some ways, you know, there's less of a maybe a a fear or risk or whatever holds someone back from this information that that fear isn't there because it's not identifiable. >> So, if it if it's not identifiable, how are you going to know who to address if there are issues or concerns
015that come up out of the survey? So it's very important to recognize that it is really that universal uh survey across the board. It's just a screener for us to see, okay, this grade level seems to have this, you know, these results students maybe um, you know, that sense of belonging and and maybe that grade level can identify that or their response is our students feel really safe. Then you look at the school and then we'll be able to look at the district. But the way the law is currently set up, when you use a third party vendor, um, it's very tricky and we can't have that identifiable information, >> right? So the narrowest that you could get would be the school and the grade like that's >> because we didn't want um to go
016to the classroom because how offputting or upsetting that might be. Why do I have all these red and it's I can't do anything about this. You know what is it? So we wanted to keep it very much >> very high level. How is the work that you're doing for all students? How are students responding? You see newsletters, you know, the Miller way or you know a tiger. How am I doing as a PA student, a hawk? you know, all of those um behavior standards that they deem to be important. How are the students responding to that? Wow. Look, our students really feel safe at school. >> So, the closest you could get to identifying, if you want to call it that, is building level or grade level? >> The grade level. >> Okay. Okay. >>
017So, students will select their school and their grade level first. And so, that's how we'll get the response. >> Okay. >> Um there won't be any clever link or class link. it won't be in any way identified or I'm sorry tied to P school for example that's not how we're getting the students grade it will be that they have to self- select so there could be some error in that but that's to protect um them and in align with the law that says no identifiable information can be um collected >> okay >> and we're hoping it will be another data point >> you're welcome you >> in the way that attendance is the way that discipline referrals it's a more general data point you know admittedly but we're hoping that it will give us some
018information to see if the work um if students are responding to the behavior work. >> Okay. >> And hopefully over time we would be able to use it. >> I think for those parents who have had kids in the district for a minute or two um prior to your joining us um they're automatically going to think, "Oh, >> this is another Panorama survey. I'm not doing it." >> Can you tell us how this compares aside from the fact that it doesn't identify anyone? Yes, we're going to get in about two slides and we're going to get into the survey and I would love to continue to address that in full transparency how we can continue to explain to parents where it's going to live in all these different places um at the school level at
019the district level so parents can feel very comfortable with it. >> So, I'll sit back and be patient. >> Well, no, it's good. [laughter] No, it's good. I um I just think we'll get into that a little bit more. Again, this is all rooted in the importance of student sense of belonging. Everything I read, in fact, Dr. Rich sent us an article yesterday on AI. He sent us an article on cell phones. Everything um involving students is really rooted in their feeling a sense of belonging. And that sense of belonging then connects to student achievement. And so it's very important that we get a sense of the work that we're doing and and and why we're tying it to a survey in this way. So we can really tell how our students mentally are doing.
020um there's a lot of pressure on academics and we support our students being successful and um achieving, but we also want to make sure we're taking care of and paying attention. And to your point, um we have a lot of really really strong counselors and social workers who probably already can identify some of this the more uh you know that one or three or 4% of students that are really struggling, but it's some of the others kids we want to make sure across the board um are being taken care of. >> Well, and I will just to add a comment. I love, and I've already told you this, that it's opt in, not an opt out, so that you're automatically in if you don't pay attention. So, I love that we've reversed that. >> Yes,
021we we are following the law. We spent a lot of time, we vetted this through our attorneys and um really wanted to make sure that this was a great first experience so that we could move maybe in time if laws change to a more um you you know, a more um identifiable experience, I guess, is the way to say it. So, I'm going to turn it over to Maria and she's going to talk a little bit about our survey and the company that um she spent a lot of time vetting and working with. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um I think one thing to to add additionally is the the work around tier one or all student supports um has been a major focus in the last two years. Yet, that's really hard to measure. And in
022the strategic plan, there is named sections of compassionate care and support related to assessment and using data to inform our universal and targeted practices. So yes, we can look at attendance. Yes, we can look at discipline data to try to measure that, but that is ultimately adult driven and it's really hard to know how students feel about all this work and frankly all this money we're pouring into tier one support. So, um, that's some of a little bit more of the rationale, but in terms of the survey, um, it it comes from a a company called Satchel, and it's called Satchel Pulse. Um, it was selected for a variety of reasons, but one is that it is available for students as young as kindergarten to to take. Um, they uh have very easy to understand
023questions. The experience is userfriendly, and Julie will have a couple slides so you can see what that experience is. Um, and it is differentiated for our K2 students versus our older students. Um, I love that you can students can click um, the language that they prefer from a drop-own menu and that there's text to speech for all the questions. Um, and fortunately it is funded through our our project aware grant through 2028. Um, so there is a spreadsheet linked. I I tried to make sure you all have access um to it, but sorry. >> Um, so that spreadsheet has the survey items um and the different ways the the items or questions they're truly sentences um I don't know [laughter] >> how they are different elementary vers. >> This is my life. >> Yeah. >>
024Oh my goodness. mine. She usually mine. >> I had to update it the other day. >> Oh, good. Okay, great. Thank you. >> And you'll send us this packet. >> We will. And you will have this. But I just wanted you to see on the left hand side that you know where the domain lives, this idea of self, you can't read this. I understand that. But the self-awareness, the social awareness, self-management, responsible decision- making, and relationship skills. And so these well and I'm sorry. And then we also added sense of belonging because this is part of a project aware grant. And so for example for um the standard question relationship skills u I get along well with other well that's not a good example. [laughter] Um those are all the same. Okay. Uh for responsible
025decision- making a standard question is I consider all the options and their consequences when making a decision. Elementary would read I can think about all the choices when making a decision. middle school, I consider all the options and their consequences when making a decision. And that's the same for high school as well. So, parents will have access to this. They can see, you know, in the way that you will be able to um can see all the the questions that we're asking. So one of the major um upsides of using a third party you can go back or or using a company that has done this research is those items that are all grouped into the same domain are research satchel worked with Johns Hopkins um in particular but research to show the validity and
026reliability. So, while I know some other um school districts in Indiana are creating their own survey, there is the potential that a student could be flagged or missed because those items are not measured to be reliable and valid. So, the reason there are five items per domain is because if a student answers those questions slightly differently, then that decreases the validity. So when we see the results, we won't see student results, but when we see the grade level results, we can trust that those are accurate and reliable and we can make plan decisions from those. Um, so that was a lot of the conversation Julie and I had, you know, should we try to do this on on our own? Um, and I I firmly believe that this is the best way to serve our
027kids and make sure that we're not um or avoiding the slip through the crack phenomenon. And with the grant you allowing us, we wanted to do, you know, provide the very best um build buyin and then, you know, maybe someday if the finances aren't there, we will have to create our own. But we really want to um create the best case scenario so people do feel comfortable who maybe didn't feel comfortable in the past. So you can see here, this is a screenshot of one of the survey items. I think before I act, even when I am upset, um this is the third to 12th grade view. So on the top right, you can see the dropdown. It says English here, but again, students can select whichever language they prefer. And then there's that text
028to speech, the blue speaker phone. So a student um students will have headphones as they typically do with their iPads and can read or I'm sorry, listen um if that's more comfortable for them. And the smiley face is actually a toggle. And so they will use their their finger or their cursor to select um the smiley face that that aligns with the liyker scale of strongly disagree to strongly agree and satchel has customized this for us because we cannot use we cannot have identifiable information. So this is a national company and so they have um you know put in the questions that we chose. >> Then K to kindergarten through second grade. You can see it's a little bit different. Um we intentionally they intentionally for for developmentally um appropriate considerations have only five choices
029for that disagree to agree. Um and again the questions are differentiated to be make more sense for our youngest youngest students. And we vetted this with our project aware advisory board and we had a committee made up of parents, social workers, counselors, schoolboard member and felt that kindergarten and second grade could handle the 30 questions that were being asked compared to the other assessments that they're given. So that's why we went ahead and and did that. Why is it bad to good instead of good to bad? [laughter] >> I think because they read love to write, but I guess that wouldn't make a difference, >> right? Because it's bad. It's bad, better, medium. >> But it seems like, you know, like I don't know, that's just me. It seems like it would >> that it
030would be the happy >> happy to the other way. >> Even the survey I wrote for my dissertation was just like that. That's good. That's a good question. That'd be a good research question. >> It just probably follows the traditional 0 to 10 scale. You know, zero and 10 is great. >> This makes sense to me because the higher the number in my brain would equal good. That's why I need to go further to the right to indicate how good I feel. >> I guess I would hope everybody's happy. >> I hear what you're saying. You go left or right, you would want to just be a happy choice. >> I just want everybody to be happy. So doing this survey if everyone was happy. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> I mean, you could just make
031them happy all across. >> There you go. Pick pick which happy. >> Which happy? >> So any other comments or questions? I know I went through that kind of quickly, but awesome. I know this was a quick presentation, but it's very evident you guys [clears throat] put a ton of time and effort into this. >> Thank you for doing this. >> You're welcome. We want it to go well. >> And you'll um after this is done and you you'll report back in the work session or sometime and >> I would love that. Yeah. >> Give us the results. It would be interesting to hear. >> I think that we present um in March again. I think that's our regular meeting. >> Yes. And so I'm hoping that this will be the topic of conversation. And
032again, we, you know, it's an odd time. We would like to do it fall and spring moving forward, but we wanted to start. We felt like we need to start somewhere. Let's just start kind of make it a trial run, see how it goes, but then really do it again at the beginning of the year. Gives us time to make a difference. Um change some things, look at our um practices, and then do it again at the end of the year to see um how well we did. So >> Okay. So your your goal is to have this done and finished in February to have it run in February. Do you think that's enough turnaround to include this in the March meeting? >> Well, we we'll we will have the results immediately. >> Yeah, I
033I do because it's so >> but to analyze I mean is there are there I'm assuming there are going to be things that you're going to have to analyze and try to get together and >> I'll be able to definitely share district school excuse me and I don't know that I'll drill down to grade level. I'm not sure yet. But again, that's a really good point because we want to then open up training for principles and behavior teams and counselors and social workers to really dive into the reports and not just, you know, take a survey for survey sake and not really use the data that we have from it. >> Okay, we have the results now. What do we do with it? >> I hope it's pretty immediate. I would think I'd be able
034to throw something together pretty quickly. So, there are 24 hours in a day, >> right? And I think you're here 23 hours. >> Yeah. Well, I have an amazing uh partner in trying Maria is excellent. So, so you plan to have action items if something scores low for example like >> yes we would want to look at you know self-confidence or one of those domains we would want to look sense of belonging and again we won't be able to know specifically what students but what is it about what we're doing or how could you know for example if a ninth grade score was lower from an eighth grade score or a sixth grade from fifth grade you would look at our transition practices and see how students are transitioning it would be interesting to see
035>> um any other insight Yeah, one one thing I I didn't add, it's really the counselor social work realm, but one of the um great benefits of Satchel Pulse is they have an intervention library that's sorted by the different tiers and those domains. So, that's where I really see our counselors and social workers leaning in as experts to go through their school's results with their administrators and identify action plans. The great thing is they can select literally from a drop down just like you would if you're shopping online tier one supports for responsible decision- making and it comes up with tons of interventions that they can suggest for you to use. >> That's that's good. >> Yes. And we're doing that work right now. So next uh in the next couple weeks with our counselors
036and social workers we are working on that year two which is our behaviormies and what does that look like? How do you identify students? What is the entrance criteria? What work are you going to do with them? And then what is their exit criteria? So if I for example can't keep my hands to myself, what am I doing to retach and help support a student? Not just punitive um consequences, but how am I really teaching and helping? So >> So this gets down to the grade level. Does it go fake it a step further by building? >> Yeah, it'll go by building. Yes. Okay. >> Yes. And so again, it's very much high level, but they are meeting uh the majority of the buildings are meeting monthly on behavior. Some are in different places um
037with their behavior teams, but they're also meeting academically. So you'll you heard um Dr. Rich talk about you know our alignment of that multi-tered system of support. So looking at academics looking at behavior. So when we come together as a group um what interventions are we providing students. So we're trying to intertwine it um with everything that we do and align it. >> And the questions are like multiple choice. They won't be able to type like an answer like there won't be a follow-up as to well why do you feel that way? They won't put it. Okay. And so the panorama had like student IDs right? is that maybe you weren't here during >> I wasn't here but that this does not so this >> so that's how it's different in identification >> they had
038to completely customize it so we were on the phone with the president of the company trying to and the designer trying to figure out how to do that because that was a new thing for them understanding Indiana law you know really kind of helping them see that we really mean we can't identify it so it's not in Clever it's not in any of these other you know more user friendly tools >> okay >> it's literally a link Yeah. >> Um and but we hope to communicate through parent square through principal newsletters and we also hope to put it so to answer your earlier question on the website. You know the the law does or Indiana code does require a a great deal of transparency and so we're following those guidelines to do that. >> Any
039questions? Will there be any questions like about tobacco, alcohol, sex, anything like nothing like that? It's all kind of look like very generalized questions. self awareness, social awareness, self-management. Um, >> so it's all about your >> feelings and confidence >> and you'll get to see those. I mean, I I already gave um Karen this presentation and so you'll get to read through them and then if you have any questions or anything, you know, think would be I would rather know from you earlier than you know, sending it out to the masses and find out. So when when you send this out to the parents to opt in, will they also be given a link in that same email to so they can preview the questions and then any reminder >> emails as well? >> Yeah,
040the items are required to be posted on the corporation's website. So probably um direct parents, you know, send parents a message and give a language to the principles to send out as well, but directing everyone to the website so there's a single source of information. >> Perfect. and it gets them familiarized with their [clears throat] website. >> Sure. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And students will be doing this during class time, correct? Non-instructional, you said. Like, can they can high schoolers take it on their own? Like for example, would there be an option like this is your homework that has to be turned in by tomorrow and they could do it at home or in their study hall or or do does it have to be conducted during like do they all have to take
041it at the certain at the same time in that classroom or definitely elementary. We have a plan for that during their tech class. Middle school would be, you know, their SLT or their East time and we're working with Jana to find that least intrusive um instructional time >> the we want to ensure that they all take it and so by just having a set time to do it then you know like okay you know a start and >> they may not do it at home and forget. >> Yeah. And the problem with the high school level is if they do it during AL then not all students stay at school for AL. So then they would just have to be trusted that they're going to do it at home or wherever they are during that
042period. But >> with the toggling, I mean, we really do feel like and the questions really are that short. They could probably get it done in 20 minutes as our guess. Now, we didn't have like a, you know, a face validity session where we had kids come in and take it to tell us, but we're guessing around 20 minutes >> at the most. So, we hope that with given the as much time that we could carve, you know, 20 minutes or so to do that. can skip questions too if they want and then require them to fill each question, right? >> Yeah. >> Each item requires an answer and that's because of the um reliability between the the answers. >> No. Yeah. >> Makes sense. Yeah. >> Basically doing factor analysis to determine the areas
043where students are strong and where they're weak. And you have to ask that multiple times in order to do that. >> Okay. I think good because a lot of those tier one kids do get missed or looked over and they may have stuff going on that they don't talk to their parents about or school and you know they're kind of flying under the radar. So >> anything we can do to kind of help the general masses, you know. >> I agree. I agree. >> And you just don't want to miss something that >> Yeah. I'm always kind of surprised when I hear about things about certain students like my kids friends where I'm like well I would never guess that they were struggling about that and or with that you know. So I think it's
044good to >> keep an eye out >> and to normalize it and they also have access to um mental health lessons that we do over here. And so again just sort of and you saw from you know adults felt really confident the kids do take care of other kids that are struggling. So but again we are all become really good at wearing masks and so we want to support kids >> but if they see that resource right there in front of them they may then they can utilize that and help. So >> right that's our fault. You're speaking our language. So, what would happen if a parent did opt their student in, but the student just hasn't taken it? >> Well, I mean, >> take it. We won't know because we don't have any identifiable,
045right? >> Never mind. >> But that's [laughter] okay. It's a good question. We found ourselves doing things like that like, "Oh, wait. We won't know cuz they don't it's not identifiable." So, >> the best way for us to know is a for it to be um during the school day. Question. Yeah. >> Um and then um to be able to to yeah I guess to track attendance for that that period. Oh, the other thing I was going to say is because we're asking each um school's admin team to let us know the specific dates that they are doing the survey within the month of February. That'll help us because we are taking on the coordination of the opt-in opt out form. So that's not happening at the school level that'll happen at the district level
046and we'll give those opt out lists to the school. So it's one less logistical hurdle for schools to manage. And so if I know that STO is screening on the 13th and 14th uh that will help me to organize and get them the list of optouts, then we can cross reference attendance that day too. >> Yeah, >> we wanted to take the lift and the burden off the school so that um because they have I learn checkpoints, they have a lot of, you know, new curriculum and things like that. We wanted this to just feel really seamless. >> And the letter that goes out if if the parents have questions, who do they address the questions to? one of you the principal who who is the contact for questions. >> That's good. Well, we were
047thinking yes. >> Yeah. >> Okay. [laughter] I don't know if that's a good idea. >> It makes sense since you're running it and if you're in charge of the opt in if you're in charge of opt out that would make sense >> like it's only 10,100 [laughter] people, >> right? Um and then again if there were any [clears throat] we have to have binding a code agreements procedure and of course that would you have to anybody had a problem they would you know I put myself down as that. Um but I actually think just based on the response we've had I think it will go pretty well I think and people there's no judgment if they say no. I mean there's no you know you say yes and then or no you'll be able to
048accept or decline. So >> this feels very different than >> it does. For sure. Yeah. Good. What do you want? It feels very >> I don't think you're going to hear from many if any >> person there's always a handful. >> You never know. Yeah. Let us >> be very thoughtful in the approach and the process. I think this will feel very different. >> Okay. And we'll make sure that if we hear anything once the letters start to go out though, we'll we'll let Dan know and make sure that >> Yeah. >> I mean, I wasn't involved at the time when the panorama stuff came about, but I mean, I was as a parent. >> Sure. Um, but I like how this feels compared to how that felt as a parent. >> Yeah. >> Okay.
049>> Good. >> Okay. Anything else? >> Good. So, B, we'll send we'll send this slide deck is what you sent us, right? I haven't looked at it yet. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. So, we'll just send this entire slide deck to you. It links you to the survey itself so you can review at your leisure. >> I mean, we should all take it and see what happens. >> Yeah. My link is updated. I'm going to make sure you guys have it so we can all [laughter] take it. Yeah, I will say my only as a parent when we did the other surveys, my only concern, which I think would still be the same, but I I feel better about it being opt in instead of opt out, >> um, is that, you know, there are
050students out there who are perceived anyway, I mean, my students specifically, [clears throat] we've never had a concern or they've never been students who felt like they need to belong or that they didn't. They've never really thought about that. So this type of these type of questions to me kind of plants that seed for those students be like, "Oh, >> maybe I don't fit in, you know, it just kind of plants that seed for them." And I didn't that was the only thing I didn't like with the panorama. >> Um in addition to having to opt out instead of choosing consciously to opt in. >> But it really is optin. I mean >> Right. Right. And that's why I like this one better. >> No, I mean it really is optin because if you don't
051respond, you're in. You're in. So, so it really is opt out. It's just different. It's just different than panorama. >> Okay. But the the difference because again your policy and the process following is spelled out specifically on Indian code. This is how you do it. Now I I say I would actually describe it as opt out being totally honest. >> However, parents >> there there's so many ways that parents are going to be given multiple reminders along the way to make sure they fully understand everything going on, can see everything. Like it ensures total total whatever. And parents always have the ability, you heard them say a second ago, >> that even if oh I forgot to do it, all you got to do is let them know and they're they're going to change your
052flip it anyway, right? Change >> and they will check. I mean, you're right. They will check yes or no basically, right? So they will get that feeling of it's not actually an opt in. >> I I would describe it more clearly as opt out. I think I think that's really what if you were going to label it strictly as that. But the difference is again if you read if you read your board again I don't board policy right now but what they're doing exactly follows that because it's straight out of Indiana code >> decline >> which is which is we they will notify parents you have so much time we notify parents again give them another opportunity and then if the parents still choose not to respond then it's assumed that you're you've given consent
053your child will be able to participate but you can still remove them at any of time >> and and you're going to have our notes too um and then we list Indiana code in our notes So when you get this presentation, >> I I don't know how I got that impression then. I had the impression that it was opt in, if you don't respond, then you're not taking it. >> And I think and I think the challenge challenge and why I think even the legislature recognizes that that's not always the best way to go is because a lot of folks don't have an issue and just won't they just won't respond and then they be like, well, how come my kid didn't get to participate in this? Because this applies to a lot of things,
054>> right? >> Um if you read your full policy, if you want to review it all again. Yeah. >> So, yep. >> There will be a give consent or decline consent. So, maybe that's what you were thinking too. It's not only if I fil this out, it means opt out. >> So, it's Yeah. >> But if they don't respond, if they don't check either after >> they're in they're in, but that's after um 31 plus calendar days >> and two notifications >> at least two. or probably I mean knowing that we'll probably live I would think in some of the newsletters of principles we may only do you know the the standard from the district but they may let it live in their newsletters >> and that would be a great point of feedback and
055you know growth depending on how that goes for us >> yeah absolutely >> right >> okay >> well thank you so much discussion someone presenting Oh, thanks. >> I don't think we actually need this for the rest of these because the rest are just discussion. >> The district policy for 26 >> opting in, opting out. >> C225 is board policy. >> Yep. >> Same process, >> same timeline, same option, same thing. So, notify parents, give them time, notify again, give them >> time. Yep. >> Yep. All right. Next up, we have school board meeting recognitions. >> Okay. So, board um >> yeah, >> want to start just an initial conversation fully expecting that not not necessarily looking for decisions today, but as we've as we've kind of reflected um you know, I've been here three
056and a half years now and we've kind of a few months ago, maybe it was me and Marty, me and Martney Karen, I don't know, some combination of us, we're kind of reflecting on how board meetings are going, how recognitions go at the start of each meeting. Um and thought, you know, we haven't really I've never talked about this with the board. I don't know what happened before I got here. Um, but feeling like maybe we should have a just a quick check-in on how it's going. Um, if there's things you like about it, if there's things you want to change about it. Um, just make sure because as as we talk about a lot, board meetings are truly boards, the board's meetings. We are kind of like your guests and just there to bring
057things that you want to see at the meeting or that you u have interest or things that we need to make recommendations on. Um, and so to kind of give you a little bit into what we were talking about that day, we started just wondering, you know, are um is there ever is there ever a time we should talk about what would be like an appropriate threshold for a student achievement or something that would say, okay, that is something that definitely should come to the board versus well that is a great accomplishment, but maybe to to preserve the fact that it should feel very special, we do want to have some sort of a um I I threshold's probably I guess the the best way to descri describe that, right? And so, you know, because
058over over time, I think if you don't kind of have a clearly defined set of of guidance for that, it can just turn into every group comes to the board. And if that's what the board wants, that's great. But that also then just um makes your meeting really long, first of all, but also in a way it almost diminishes if that if the intent was to truly recognize some sort of special achievement or outstanding achievement or whatnot. So I invited since since a lot of times a lot of recognitions do come from the high school I thought it'd be very appropriate to have um Leah and Jana join us for this conversation just so if nothing else they can listen but also share input on that and at the end of the day um my
059expectation is we want to do exactly what the board wants to do. Um, but that but just feel like it's a good time just to kind of check in and and I'm thinking if there are any adjustments, this would probably be for next year because we're already halfway through the year already and we don't want to change midstream. But if there's anything that you you feel strongly about or um any feedback you want us to have so we can make sure we're doing what you'd like to see at the meetings, we'd love to hear it. >> Well, and just to piggyback on that, we we do have criteria that we use for your recognitions currently. We have thresholds, we have criteria. are always um talking re you know talking about whether we should be revisiting
060those. Should we you know are you happy with kind of what the thresholds look like now and the people that come there's a lot of sometimes there's a lot of repetition of groups. Um sometimes there's been a you know question as as the district has grown and become more accomplished that some of the things that maybe used to be 10 years ago a really big deal are like not a big deal because it happens every single year. >> Um so um you and maybe that's okay or maybe you want to you know raise the bar. So you know so we do have some parameters that we use to you know bring things to you currently but I think the question is are you happy with those parameters? Would you like to see them changed in
061any way? Um >> and last thing and we'll shut up and let talk. Um just as I think there's just some examples like sometimes it feels like a team or a group maybe come and they don't necessarily have an achievement but they're almost just more recognizing like well you were the seniors that were on this team or whatever. And there is nothing wrong with that. But to me, we also want to make sure we're being very consistent. So no teams or or things feel like certain things are getting a recognition that they're not because if the expectation is that seniors from every club and activity get recognized, that's obviously going to be a very different approach, a very big approach if we were to do that, and I'm not recommending that in any way, but
062you know, just we we want to make sure we're being very fair and consistent to all >> Yeah. >> all of our students who work really hard. have received questions sometimes about um you know one of the one of the things that we recognize currently as you know individual kind of academic allstate and honorable mention all state academic all state um you know athletes but sometimes that brings athletes to the board meeting that you know maybe their team did not have a successful winning season and so then there's kind of a question about why is this person you know why is this athlete being invited well they're being invited really more because of their kind of academic >> a different achievements but then you know but then we're not really recognizing other types of academic
063achievements that might be equal. So just you know that type of you know um thinking about through that lens of just you know across the whole district like you know >> we we struggle sometimes to bring um you know younger student accomplishments right like the large majority of things um that you see are from the high school. Um we we have a couple things throughout the year where we bring um you know elementary students for like their holiday card art for example or um I think actually next month you're going to see some middle school teams who won kind of their county championships because that's sort of the bar we put for them is that at middle school level a county championship is like a state championship at high school level. So um so anyway
064just as you think about reflect on that those are some other things to consider. I think it would be good if the coaches were more consistent on kind of what they said or how they introduce the students. Um I mean some of them are obviously more comfortable talking and some of them aren't. Some of them talk for a really long time. I mean there's one that talks a really long time. >> We know >> and then [laughter] so I think that that could be a little more consistent for me. We do have some instructions that we give all the board meeting presenters about how long they're supposed to take, what types of things are supposed to highlight, how to like bring people up and >> um and then you know that some of the people
065who are more wellversed in that and do it regularly kind of know that drill and then some people who are new >> and some of us are rule followers and some of us may not. >> Let's just be honest. [laughter] >> Well, I think as far as the senior recognitions go, I think they pretty well do that within their own sport [clears throat] or club on their own. So just, you know, recognizing seniors for being seniors, I don't think is necessary to be here. >> Y >> um but like their special accomplishments, you know, academic all-star, you know, that kind of thing. I think that's great to have. Um, but I I think as far as recognizing um others who don't who probably normally wouldn't see a spotlight, is there some way we could gauge
066like I don't know, maybe standardiz standardized testing they have the most improved in their building or in their grade. Um because some of those students are never going to be here if it's based on sports. >> Well, I mean, >> and they're never going to be recognized for things like that, >> right? And and the arts are good. the arts are good about, you know, >> right? >> Um, but we do we do bring like the national merit finalists, you know, um, >> journalist journalism gets chosen for the city building and things like that. >> Journalism is a good example of, you know, we our journalism program is just so accomplished that those, you know, those kids on our street, they're here every year. that's just sort of a given that they want, you know,
067and so I guess just, you know, philosophically, you know, do you are you okay with that or would you want to say like I'd rather, you know, have set the bar higher and have this be something that's, you know, they only reach occasionally. Um, you know, versus something that's just sort of become a standard. Um, >> I guess without knowing the standards, it's hard for me to assess like without knowing the criteria. I don't know what the criteria is. >> Just actually thinking that that like, you know, I'm sitting here thinking, but it's smart. Maybe we can send that out. And we can send that out. Like I say, to me, this is an initial just plant the seed and start thinking about it. This most >> I can share I mean I I have
068I can share some of that verbally. So for um at the high school level um for athletics we have and this again this is something that Leah and I just kind of hashed out and Karen in the in the old days um recognition of conference, sectional, regional, semi-state and state championship teams in addition to all state and academic all state and honorable mention all state and academic all state. Recognize any team who qualifies for the state championship, regardless of what place they finish. Recognize any cross country, golf, or tennis team who qualifies for state, even if they may not have won the sectional, regional, or semi-state since it is based on a point total. Um, and again, for athletics at the middle school, it's a county or conference win at that level. Um we have
069you know for music all state individual and state honor bands solo ensemble um you know spring winter spring music recognition um invite sectional leaders or seniors to represent. So some of this is just you know back again back like you know 10 years ago when we developed some of this it was more rare now like our you know we our we get isma all state you know like global whatever you know like every single every single time you know so u which is amazing and you you guys might want to say hey we're really proud of that it's amazing we want to celebrate that every every single time or we might say let's raise the bar a little higher and make it even >> you know maybe has to be a bigger accomplishment to come
070to the school board and be recognized >> I like honoring more than less You know, I don't have trouble setting an extra 15 minutes. So, somebody can tell me they >> did this, that, or the other. I just think this is always good. Okay. So, for me, we don't have to go less. I mean, just so you know, >> I totally agree with you. I mean, I think I mean, you know, you would hate to be in that class that, oh, I get to go to the schoolboard meeting because I got gold atma. Oh, they changed it. Now I don't get to go. I mean, >> I think you need to >> Yeah, I agree. Okay. >> Well, and I we do the uh like the teacher recognitions every month too under the hair spotlight.
071>> Um is that restricted to just teachers? Can we do like the IAS? Can we do food service? Can we do custodial? Does it have to be teachers? We we've done some of that with when they win an honor of some sort like when the with the food service people. >> So the hair teacher award I believe is tied to something >> the hair program is specifically for educators because that's what hair told us they wanted to do when we built that program. But we do have the our Miller of the year awards that recognize classified staff. That's something we could we don't currently bring those in to be recognized um at board but we could. >> What about in middle school? And my kids obviously are older now, but in middle school when you
072get like student of the month, >> do they still do that where you where teacher where they do student of the month? >> I mean, why have we not what's the thought of bringing in because it doesn't seem like we have a lot of middle schoolers that come? >> Yeah, it's hard. I will say the moment my kid got student of the month from his PE teacher, >> so he wouldn't have been here. [laughter] >> But they do have their own program at the school for the first time ever. >> He was so excited. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'd have to I'd have to talk to the middle school principles. I mean, at one time there were like a lot of kids that were I don't know, but we can >> I'm just trying to think
073of a way to find >> I mean, if there are like a hundred kids in that every month, that might be a lot. So, we might need to look >> principles reaching out to you saying or like maybe uh Leah saying we would like can we recognize these individuals or have suggestions for like this is a really cool thing but that we'd like to recognize or have they given feedback? Yeah, occasionally, but most of the times it it already kind of falls within our >> Okay. >> And actually, I found I did have more detail in the music if you're interested. I do have more specific detail that I found here that we had um of kind of what qualifies the music recognition, but um but you know, occasionally somebody will bring something up and
074I just I you know, I usually make kind of a judgment call of whether it kind of falls in line with this other stuff and we usually air on the side of including them. I don't like to your point I don't know that we >> very I mean like for example you may not remember this but a couple years ago you recognized like the hockey team. The hockey team is not like a school team and in fact the hockey team's not even all Noblesville schools kids. There's like four kids four or five Noblesville kids that run this hockey team but they won like their kind of their state championship or something and they had reached out to me and I was like I said sure let's recognize these four or five Nolesville High School kids
075for their state championship accomplishment even though it was outside of our normal you know school sport. So we so we recognize that, you know, um like some of the life- saving like the life-saving employee things, we just kind of took the initiative and said, "That's really cool. That's really cool that you did that. Let's have the board recognize you." >> Yeah. >> Um so some of that is just kind of like we just kind of >> you know, right? >> What are your thoughts on it? Like what do you think we do? Like do do you think we do too much, too little, more? Like do do you think it needs revamped? I >> um I I mean I think there are pros and cons to that. I mean, one of I mean, to Joe's
076point earlier that I think this is like a great way to connect with the community. I mean, a lot of the community members don't ever come to a board meeting except when they have this. Um, obviously it it feels it's a feels good. It helps um parents remember all of the, you know, special accomplishments that we're doing. Nobody ever you nobody ever complains that they're being too loved on, >> right? So, you know, so there's that. And then on the other hand, sometimes it can, and maybe this is just more of me looking through the lens of the, you know, Karen and I being kind of the ones to administer this, sometimes it does feel very repetitive, like oh, like we're seeing like the same kids again for the same thing and the same group,
077you know, a couple months later and um it almost feels like does, you know, I do kind of question like is this does this carry the same sort of prestige or specialness that that it used to? Um if it's just sort of a expected every single year that it's like the same thing. So I you know you can see I can see it both ways. >> I don't think we can do away with it. I mean I don't think you I don't think you lessen it. >> Um what about like if our school is our spotlight school like our next school is what um Noble Crossing, right? What what about um having the principal like like to Missy's point about having three teachers. What about if the teachers or the admin say we want to
078recognize a couple special students at that building? Not necessarily students that get recognized all the time. Not the athletes, not the the band, you know, not the band people, but students that maybe have done something unique or special. >> So maybe it's part of their building spotlight. Correct. In addition, >> right? Yes. Please feature a few students who made >> this student did it like we had one >> something that you're proud of with them. Honestly, you could leave that highlight. [laughter] >> I think that's a fun idea. They could even if they wanted they could even tie it into the theme of whatever they're talking about. I was thinking maybe tie it in featured their math hoops. They could have a couple kids come in like these kids like >> have a huge increase
079in their math right with our presation. >> Or we had the young man we had the young man last year that did a food drive >> remember? I mean stuff like that. >> That was an example of one that we just kind of like Yes. >> But it but it to put it kind of back on each building. I don't that sounds >> a little girl that came in recently. Sydney I think was her name. Um, she had come in. Was it Stony Stony Creek? >> I know what you're thinking of. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it would just be nice to recognize students that don't get recognized all the time, >> right? >> Another interesting And you were getting ready to say something. I'm going to let you talk to >> you
080with this group. You just got to talk. You just got to jump in. Just Yeah. way we could do that. I'm curious if this would be cool is before while the audience is sitting out here waiting for us to come out if there could be like a slideshow that just has a picture of a kid and like what their special achievement was like maybe that they're not here standing up at the front and we're talking about them, but like a slideshow of like say we're doing Hazel. So then there's like five kids that are just up on the screen that their picture rotates and talks about maybe says a little blurb at the bottom about what they've accomplished. I don't know. >> I think I think the maximum I think the maximum return on this
081idea though is that they get to come and the parents get to be here and see their talk to you and shake your hand and get a picture. So in all cander I'm not in all cander Karen and I also are pretty you know are pretty you know have a >> we're probably at capacity in terms of some of the logistical things that we are doing together creating like gathering and creating a whole other slideshow stuff is probably would be taking away from something else that we're working on peanut gallery >> I I'm always worried about the parent involvement or the high school kids like are they like I'm too busy >> that's what I want It feels to me like Thanksgiving dinner. It takes four hours to prep and eat in 10 minutes. Yeah.
082You know, >> and it's a lot to get over here. That's not saying we can't do it. I just want to be cognizant of their time. But then I talk about that usually it's like the parents love it. The kids >> the parents love it because that's okay. >> Yeah. And if it doesn't work for them, then they'll just have to decline the invitation. >> Yep. and we've talked about that over the years that >> I I I also think that it might be nice at some point for the board a few minutes before the meeting starts and not that we're going to talk about anything that we're we're talking about in the meeting, but for us to go and and see the students and the parents that were here and say congratulations to them
083because we shake their hands up there, but then they of course all leave. So, it it might be nice to actually We did that when we did your um pizza with >> Oh, yeah. >> with your I don't know. I mean, >> does it make more sense for us to I don't know. >> What do you guys think? >> That worked out really well. I remember doing that and and you actually got to talk to people and they really enjoyed it. appreciated. >> What I Well, maybe what you could do is you could just say if you and your student are available, if you would like to show up at 5:45, >> the board would like a chance to say hello to you >> before the meeting starts. And that's not necessarily any extra work.
084It would just be when they're invited to the meeting. Just, hey, come a few minutes early >> and the board would like to meet you and say hello >> in the in the back. >> Well, up here they're not all going to fit in the back. I think we just come out here. >> So, it could be out here or in the entryway or if it's a tiny group, they could come back and see you, >> right? I don't know. I don't know. >> Sometimes it just doesn't seem personal to me. >> Yeah. And I think it's also important to consider the size of the group because some, you know, sometimes it could be a couple people, but sometimes it can be like 30 kids. So, [laughter] >> yeah. Um, and that's actually another thing
085I wanted to get your feedback on, too. when Leah and I and Karen have worked over the years um and Eric Thornberry to try to streamline like how many people are here at one time. Um, so we have, you know, worked on like, hey, we'll recognize fall sports this month, winter sports this month, spring sports this month. Um, you know, and then we try to do music at the months kind of in between and obviously trying to work it with their with all of their schedules and things. Um, so that we don't have, you know, big swings or things, but that's sometimes challenging because um, particularly with like athletic schedule. So sometimes that pushes things where we're recognizing some spring sport in July, all the spring sports in July and then it's like not real
086timely or um you know um you know kids have you know graduated you know and and so um you know there's some thoughts to like how important is that to you like you know um I think it's probably can be like if we went back to a model we used to have a model where each sport would just come like every month and then there would be athletics every single month. >> Yeah. So, so part of the challenge for us and and Karen and I were talking about this before. Part of the challenge for us is like so cross country just got done Saturday, football is done, but their awards won't come out until well after Thanksgiving. Yeah. And there's a lot of reasons why like as a conference we do that because we don't
087want parents to say we don't want to interrupt teams success as they go forward because a parent's upset their kid didn't get all conference or they made second team all conference and not first team all conference. So we don't want >> we don't want to interrupt their seasons because what they're doing now >> is more important than the award they're going to get later. >> Yeah. So, so now we have all these like girls golf has been done for three weeks now and that's one of the teams that we would recognize because they were runner up. So, I'm wondering uh you know and with our all of our fall sports now are moved on to their winter sports even in no if we do November board meeting all of our fall sport athletes have either
088gone to their clubs or now they're playing their winter sport. So it becomes difficult to get them >> at a board meeting. >> Um, >> so that's part of our challenge >> and and I'm just thinking out loud, could we break it up, you know, to your point or I think somebody said, you know, a team that didn't do very well here, you're listening to how well, you know, boys cross country did and and girls golf, which is great and we still had a lot of great performers on all of our different teams. Um, but it it seems kind of I don't know the word I'm looking for, but if I'm a student athlete back there and then, okay, well, I was all state, but maybe these teams won. I don't know if that makes
089sense or not. >> So, you're saying break it up more instead of >> maybe break it up, make it up and do like, okay, let's do uh boys cross country and girls golf because they were both state runnerup. Let's do them at the same time and then maybe try to do the individuals >> at a different time. I don't know if it's all sport individual individuals. Well, that was my question. Would that mean that individuals have to come twice? So, I'm all stayed on the golf team. Now, you've got to come into one meeting another meeting >> or you I mean, yeah. >> Okay. >> So, there's just different logistics. >> I mean, I think that's a great idea. >> I do too. I think breaking it up is fine. I don't know that we
090just >> You guys want to do that? I feel like you guys do whatever for you. Like, if this is a you guys work, I feel like you guys should work. I guess the other question is too, and I can absolutely try to >> I mean, like Marty said, we do I send out to my coaches >> at least four or five times what the the information that Marty Yeah. instructions that men, as Dan said, some follow rules better better than others. And >> um >> and myself and Rich, who would represent the athletic department, we're now into other sports as well. And as we get further in, it's really difficult for us to be able to attend the board meeting, which would probably be more ideal >> because then he or I could just
091>> monitor. [laughter] Well, we could just present you be the speaker. >> We could be the speaker and it wouldn't have to be a coach. >> There you go. >> Yeah. That would be ideal. >> Yeah. So, um I mean we would want the coach to be here if they could, >> right? But >> it's also fun to hear what the coach has to say about different because sometimes it's funny [laughter] sometimes it's like oh >> sometimes yeah >> well I think I think timeliness you know would be good too because there was an um I think it was one of the soccer teams that won state. I was really like frustrated that I I was happy this the city of Noblesville recognized them and I I love that the city was recognizing them. That
092part wasn't frustrating but I was frustrated because the city recognized them before we recognized them. Um, and I felt like kind of like they scooped us, you know, like boy, these are our own kids and our own award and we had we hadn't gotten to because because of our, you know, system of, you know, that the city was just more nimble and just jumped on and said, "Hey, come in in two weeks and we're going to recognize you where we were like trying to put it with all this other stuff." So, um, >> Oh, so like they did it as just a side thing or was it a council meeting? It was at a council meeting, but I mean they their council recognized like our one of our state championship teams before you guys did
093and that >> because we've been waiting so they're all done. >> Yeah, we were waiting till everybody was done and we were waiting for all the other things scheduled. >> I think I think we just need to be fluid and just >> I don't know how that sorts out. You guys can do everything that's something Leon K and I can work on. >> I mean I think you just do them as soon as they're ready to come. I mean based on like done girls golf like >> last do all the fall sports is what you're saying we do all the fall sports try to manage the flow of you know of how many kids were here. I mean I don't know if you guys remember we had a board meeting like still traumatized by it.
094It was like like maybe two years ago or something where we had >> we had 250 kids here the same night and I felt like I was directing a parade or something. I was out like literally we had people um outstaged outside and you know I all I needed was like a megaphone to I mean it was >> well that we have boys cross boys soccer girls soccer girls cross country all the marching band like you know stuff sometimes >> packaging it actually helps with that so that we don't just because otherwise we ran like randomly have a bunch of stuff in May that just all happened in May and we might have a where there's none. >> Right. And Right. I think it's it when it's more timely, I think it's more it's more
095important to the student and the parent. If it's if it's timely, right? >> And if you're the only team being recognized, it's kind of more special >> than all the teams. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I think it just needs to, you know, be very fluid and just kind of even last minute throw it on the schedule that they, you know, like with football, they just finished, but their season could have been extended. So, they wouldn't have been ready if they were still in it. >> Yeah. It wouldn't have. So if it comes to an end, throw them on the calendar for next week, you know. >> Well, you have to give them >> parents just figuratively speaking just as an example to show that, you know, just be fluid with it. And yeah, and we
096can talk about that some more, but I know that's a pain point that Karen often struggles with is just trying to get, you know, trying to get the name. Who are all these kids and have we got them all invited? Has she got certificates made for all of them? You know, so there is a lot there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind >> show up. >> Yeah. Who will do is the coach showing up or not, you know, and we do have some teams where there's only like two representatives of like an entire team that >> out of 30 kids show up. >> But if you do it later and they've already if they're a two sport athlete and they've already moved to another sport, a lot of times they have practice. >>
097That's hard. >> Most of them are for their next at whatever playing something else. Yeah. >> So, yeah. So, there are pros and cons and we've, you know, we've kind of tweaked this in different directions over the years trying to find the perfect answer. I don't know if there's a perfect answer. There's, but this is help, this has been helpful for me to just hear your feedback about you. So, some of the kind of the key >> takeaways that I heard um is that you'd rather do more kids than less. Um like the idea of recognizing special students at a building as part of the student spotlight. um you know maybe um research the idea of the student of the month at the middle schools um Miller of the year classified staff um find you
098know as part of that finding opportunities to recognize students who are not typically recognized um fact that you might want to congratulate students when they arrive for the meeting >> um and that you're open to kind of breaking things up and having them be more timely and spread out into that that kind of summarize >> but I don't know if that helps the issue at hand here which is [laughter] there's a lot of work for you know what I I mean, so like if we need to work, >> it's going to be work regardless. >> Yeah. I think a big part of this is what I tried to say at the beginning, which is we just want to make sure >> you're enjoying or you feel like it's getting what you're hoping to get out
099of it. Like the parents love it. The parents are going to we want them to love it. And there's a >> there's a lot of value for the district getting families to engage with us when% >> it's not that. It's just it is a lot of work. I want to make sure that the board >> likes the way it's going and hasn't been like, geez, why do they keep bringing all these Well, >> and our board meeting and effective and we get through that pretty quick. >> Sure. So, >> but it brings parents in too. I like that. >> What are your thoughts on >> um I I know you mentioned, you know, the Miller certified staff Miller of the year, but in the building spotlight if they're selecting an additional student or two from
100the building for the spotlight that month, what about another non-teered employee? get something. >> We can ask that. But I'll be recognizing that we're on the record here. Hopefully, nobody will take offense to this, but I'll just I'm just going to be candid with you that some staff feel very loved and respected to come to a board meeting to be recognized by you. And some staff feel like this is a uh chore that they now have to come to something at 6:00 at night. >> I think that's the way they don't really feel like doing. So, so I I think suggesting to the principles like, hey, if you want to bring staff and want to recognize some and you have people like we could certainly suggest that, but I wouldn't want to put something where
101they like had to do that. >> Um, which is kind of why the hair which is why the hair thing's always been optional and most I feel like most teachers do come and do enjoy that. I think most teachers come very rarely do >> but not all of them come and and that's why because we don't want it to be like a hey we you know yay we're we're warning you and now you got to come to a meeting in the evening like right >> yeah there is one other thing that I would like to say and I know it's going to be a lot of work >> but I'm going to say it >> when we honor the um art in our December board meeting it would and I know it's in the hall
102but it would be really nice to have the art I know it's a lot of work >> yeah to have a slide to have a slide that says, you know, >> because we don't always see their art. >> We don't. We don't. I know it's Or have them hold the picture. I mean, have them hold it. >> Hold their art or something. Instead of already having it in the hallway, >> have them walk up and hold it. >> Yeah. Hold their art. >> Although the parents love seeing it mounted on the wall and they love taking pictures with their kids with the art. So, >> how about taking a picture of their kid holding the art >> and then take it take off the wall and bring it in. There's a nail right nail. >>
103It just It's just really It's one of my favorite recognitions because there's all ages. Yes. >> And they're kids that usually don't get recognized, but but you don't really know, >> you know, and if we walked out after our meetings >> after our meeting, we wouldn't know who was who necessarily. >> I like that suggestion. >> I think you think if we can get photos of everything before it gets framed because you get a glare on the glass. So, take the photo before we frame it. >> Uhhuh. >> And then go ahead and frame it. have it on the wall because the parents like to get a picture of their kids standing next to it. But then we can incorporate that into >> Yeah. Just behind the scenes sometimes those things are literally framed like
104hours before your board meeting >> because again that's a huge undertaking that ar um you know so yeah. So that would be a good idea to do it beforehand. >> Same with the holiday card too. >> Yes. [clears throat] That if possible that's just one >> that's just one. Yeah. Yes. >> Okay. Well, this is about your >> You've been quiet. >> I mean, I don't really have strong feelings about it. I want to see what you guys want. And then I obviously understand athletes are already, >> right? >> I think you know about certified staff. Um, it is our it is recognition, but our certified staff. Some of them work multiple jobs, >> right? Um, enjoy every >> I think really my overall >> Yeah, >> my overall goal I guess is just to
105maybe capture and make those employees feel important that otherwise might not feel important like you know so and so always gets the recognition or it's always this group of employees. It's never us. I mean I haven't heard that. >> Yeah. So I just well and that's some of what and and that's some of what we've tried to do over the years by even bringing employees to you in the first place because I think historically this was just for students but the fact that we started you know we've started bringing teachers of the year we started bringing the >> um >> yes yes you know that but I like that we already do those awards so that would be very easy to invite those folks um and that's nice because it does hit all the different
106staff groups so >> um >> I bring the award winners. >> Yeah. So by doing that throughout the course of one school year, you'll have, you know, honored somebody from all of the different employee groups. So I think that's a a good suggestion and be easy to do. >> It's good because I didn't really know. I had a parent reach out to me to ask if their eighth grade volleyball student last year was their team was going to be recognized because they had won. Is it county? Is that what you said? >> And I was like, "Oh, no. I don't think we recognize middle schoolers. I think we just recognize high school." So, I didn't even know. And then >> I got an email back that like, "Oh, no, you guys are going to be
107recognizing because they want" And I was like, "Oh." And that that parent was really excited. Now, I know that then I think they were high school parents, like maybe a football play, but >> they're like, "Oh, we're not going to we're not going to have to go to that, you know, like it's not a big deal." But I think some parents really care and I think some maybe. So, I don't I don't know what you do to >> Yeah. But we do have we do have the you know and like I said even I found the list here for music too that we do have like winter percussion if they made state or national finals jazz band if they qualified for jazz state finals you know gold with distinction at state solo ensemble >> that
108might be doing showire you know state finals. So that might be too many. >> We have we have there's a lot here. >> And those are, you know, yeah, marching Millers qualify for state. Um qualifying for national finals, individual recognition for state honor bands. That's like another one where like we have lots of kids that just sort of almost the norm now because our music programs are so high achieving that. >> Well, and that's the thing, too. I mean, our groups do they are so high achieving that it's a regular thing. It's it's the norm. >> Yeah. What about theater drama and journalism? Seems like we have a lot of those like a lot of theater >> like again they're just high you know we have high achieving groups of theater like every year they
109win like a state recognition at the every year our yearbook wins every year the um you know state Miller media you know or >> milstream kids and the broadcast kids they they win you know state journalism awards they're just and so that's that's one of those ones that's just like kind of on autopilot like those kids are always invited they always win >> and they come and they do to We have a good program and we have great students in the program >> and they don't probably get recognition like some maybe athletes would. You know what I mean? Like it's not as well known. They're competing in these things as much as >> well and I try to, you know, because we have a whole other communication channel that does all of that athletic communications.
110I I you know if you ever notice that my communications lean more heavily to all the other stuff. I do talk about athletic stuff if it's like a state championship level but otherwise I kind of let the athletic communication channels take the lead on that and I try to talk about >> the journalism students and the academic stuff and the >> music programs and all that >> which I feel like we do a great job. I mean >> yeah I feel like they recognize. Yeah. I I will say real quick too, I've had situations where for one reason or another, like I I'll get lists of names to create the certificates and I'll just copy paste over there might be a spelling error or something and I will have parents or students contact and they
111want that corrected. They want that certificate to be so they love the >> they love the certificate and they do actually usually put them out at like their open >> at their party. We did. I have a scrapbook up for my kids. >> Mhm. >> Yep. And we see them and some kids have it like 20 of them, but they're proud of them. Yeah. It's cool. It was a cool. >> Okay. Well, good. >> We appreciate you guys doing certificates and we know it's a lot of work. >> Yeah. There's a lot of um Well, thank you for saying that. And and really even, you know, Leah and Eric and like there there is um a lot of work that logistical work behind the scenes that goes into kind of like I loved your analog
112about Thanksgiving dinner. That feels very much like that. We spend hours hours shopping and cooking and plating and and then the whole thing, you know, goes like quickly. But um but I I agree that it's a a great touch point with our community in a positive way. It gives them a great opportunity to come to a board meeting. And I'm glad that you guys enjoy it. That's >> we need to talk about um reordering our agenda so that when we have the captive audience, [laughter] >> we're not going to punish that. >> No, we're not sure. You would >> to Christiey's point about parents are gone. And I thought, well, you could always put them at the end. >> But I did get >> 37 public. Anybody have anything else on this topic? >> So,
113>> y Okay. >> Well, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yep. Now, we take off one. >> I love that sweatshirt. >> David David's been so patient. >> I bought one. Jana told me where I I'll set I'll secret the I never Who's your sister >> in Clay Terrace I ordered online >> very popular >> nice who's your sister in Clay ter who's your sister [laughter] >> I I I love the white neck >> I I got one cuz during bargaining all right this is part of the meeting >> you wore the same pants as me last night and I >> hope people watch this live stream are loving [laughter] >> where to get the sweaters. >> That's okay. >> Okay. >> See you there. >> All right. >> Now, some serious finance. >> Oh,
114maybe. >> So, so just to refresh. So, >> and your audience left. >> So, [laughter] yeah. There you go. So, B, just really quick, I just want to hold the final few minutes here and and this can be as short or as long as you want, although remember I do have to hear your state of school, so don't make it too long. um that after the the budget, we obviously had a lot of budget presentation for the budget hearing and then at the board meeting there were some questions and things and so um just wanted to hold the space really quick if there were any follow-up questions you've thought of over the last month or so about uh our financial our financials um now or in the future for David. Um just thought it'd be
115easier just to have more of a Q&A time if there were things that were still on your mind or things you've been wondering or want to get a little deeper on on as you reflected on that. So that's literally all this is. We have not prepared a presentation or anything of the sort. It's really just if there's anything further you wanted to know or talk about want do it while it's still fresh your mind >> as we move through this year through next November through the next year as we go through this three years of SB1 and and all our issues uh I I think it'd be real helpful for all of us and again this is I'm ahead of the schedule to put together as we talked a little bit about riffing and other
116things >> like your forecasting >> what's going to happen if we don't do a referendum I mean I'm just planting a seed And I know you're probably going to do this anyway, but so each of us have talking points as we're out here in the community beginning to try to sell the referendum in another year. It's a year from today, right? I mean, year from now. Okay. Year from year from today. >> Wow. So So I put some thought into making something that's that's [clears throat] that's like you normally do when you speak up here. It it it it it's highly understandable for the average everyday Joe out here that's trying to figure out money. Okay. Put together something for us. So we can begin over this next year because now with the Avon thing,
117we're starting to get just a I've seen a few questions arise and we'll see more, >> but good talking points. I mean, pretty simple, but that that are impactful on your children. Okay. Her children and anybody else's children are out here or andor people's grandchildren. That that makes sense. >> Yes. And that that's probably more a me question than a David question because um here's I understand everyone's anxious to start having those talk points and use them, but I'm gonna again just ask you to be still because a couple things. One, nothing is officially happening until this body votes on it. >> Yes. >> And that will not happen until May or June of next year. However, as we start getting closer to that, we will start discussing and talking about some things. I would
118also tell you that just yesterday, David and I met with um our two elected legislators to just catch them up on how things are going and whatnot. and David has some suggestions that he has shared with them as well as a couple other very influential members of the state house for ways that we're hoping they will consider that if they were to make a few adjustments, it will actually help change both our both the current financial outlook and also um the way the approach to a potential referendum question would would go. So, I hate to get too far ahead of the ahead of things until we know for sure where some of these things stand. But be that as it may, I I do want to just tell you that um us I'm going to
119make an assumption for a moment that that if the board does choose to ask me to consider a a new referendum in 27 at a vote 26 vote. Um I I would exercise a lot of caution of ever giving any sort of absolute of if this then this absolutely happens and if this doesn't happen, this absolutely happens and here's why. There's always variables that come into play. Um, and I don't want to say, well, here's the exact 200 jobs that would be cut because something may change at the last minute and then things change. And I don't want anyone in any way to accuse any of us in this room or other leaders that they were misled or we weren't being honest. But I will say I think the way that I think it's easiest
120to think about is what are all the extra things that we do to serve the children of Noblesville that are absolutely not required. Those are the lists that we would have to start looking at prioritizing if we had to eliminate $25 million annually out of the budget. >> So that didn't start till Jul we really wouldn't even think about this kind of conversation till June July. >> You like if the board was going to is the board uh ultimately decides to do that that would likely come to the board in June. >> Okay. um because it has to be certified and done by like the end of July and we wouldn't want >> my questions reading about Avon that start that started my question reading about what's going on Avon. >> Right. Right. >> But
121obviously again it's no secret and I'm very open about this and I will even mention in a little bit of state of the schools today um that obviously this is a very important part of our funding structure here in Nolesville. It is for a lot of districts just like us throughout the state. This is not unique. This is not new. Um people should not be surprised that um we at least have to have this conversation with our community because it provides a lot of things that our community expects from Noblesville schools now. Um and so I would say if people are thinking about well we should live without or do whatever. Okay. But you're not going to want to give up the things >> that that money pays for. That's that's just the truth. the
122kind of >> you're gonna have a list though of things that are currently being paid for by the referendum. >> Well, think of it this way. The way and I don't want to put words in David's mouth, but the way we think of it is, you know, you have your three, we'll call them the operational funds, right? You've got the operations fund that every district gets for property taxes, which pays for, you know, um, a lot of classified staff and maintenance and things like that. You got the education fund, which is the one that goes dollars per kid that come from [laughter] the state budget, which pays for mostly teachers and whatnot. And then we have a third income, which is the referendum. The referendum basically just helps fill in any extras in either of
123those funds that we want. So the answer so yes, technically David could pull a report and tell you right now this is what we spend, but it's it's kind of interchangeable. Um, so the way to think of it is it's just extra money in the pot to then do more things we want to do or have higher salaries or lower class sizes or whatever. So I just truly the easiest way I think about it is just just think about what what is absolutely must that we must provide. those things will probably be untouchable and everything else is a potential area that will get trimmed or eliminated. That's the easiest way to say it. So, if you want me to share some examples, um, one that in Noblesville that I would assume our community feels very
124strongly that they don't ever want to give up ever again is the SRO program. >> Yeah, >> that is not required in any way by the state of Indiana. And we would absolutely have to have a conversation about that because if it comes down to having, you know, high quality teachers in the classroom and the SRO's, >> school is mission number one. We would have to have an uncomfortable discussion about some of those things. You know, social workers and counselors that we've added over time that everyone really appreciates and thinks are so great. Those are extra things that we have added and we're able to do it because our community supports us. some even some academic uh programming and pathways we've added that are what are making us such a shining star district right now
125they are extra because our community has so generously supported us to let us do it but if we had to start scaling back some of those very opportunities we would have to just think about what that looks like class sizes would absolutely come up that's one I I would commit to that's that's a must that would have to happen um so it's it's just things like that is the district going to go bankrupt of course not the district will still exist the district's not going to go under but it will feel it would feel very very different if 20% of our operational budget disappeared. >> So we will kind you you'll kind of you guys kind of set us up for key talking points request as as we know how things work. >> Yes, we
126we will develop that because the the hardest part about this is going to be um just helping helping everyone understand all this because as you know when we did the the dollars and cents website the whole idea was to educate our our public on how money works and how we spend it and what we get. Um, and it's the same idea like we need to help people understand why why do we have this need at all? And there are reasons why Noblesville has a little bigger need than some others to have a referendum in the first place. Um, what have we been doing with your money and why has this been a good investment? So, you should want to keep doing it. That's the easiest way I think of it because this time around we're
127not >> sorry I keep acting at absolutes. Assuming this goes forward. Yeah. >> We are not asking for anything new. We are saying we are so proud of what we're doing and we want to keep doing it, but we need to continue having the same steady funding stream just to [clears throat] continue doing all the great things that we're doing right now. >> So essentially not asking for an increase, but just to keep what we have. >> Yes. But the trick is because of SA1, it's probably going to look like an increase. >> That will be the hard part to help everyone understand that it's not. We're not actually asking for an increase, but on paper it may look like one because of the way SEA1 has changed how taxes work, >> right? >> And
128we don't have time to get into that today, but we will we will talk through that if the time comes. But that but honestly, that's part of what we're hoping. Again, we have shared some ideas that would actually help make that clear or maybe even eliminate the need to do that. But it depends on if the legislature is interested in in working on that. Um I'm not sure if they see it as an issue, but >> so that was kind of my takeaway from our few of our conversations. So >> is that something we can discuss in December when we meet with the legislators also? Like you can >> give us or they could give provide an update or you could reiterate or like >> and honestly we could check in on some of the
129ideas we shared because I'll had a few weeks to digest what we talked about yesterday and maybe we could say hey you had some time to think about that. Is there anything you'd like to share with our board about what we talked about? That's a great idea actually. But during their special session, I thought they were talking about remapping or whatever. But I think they're also talking about some things about SEA1, but I think they said that it was really just more >> I think that's something I do with federal tax. I think that's really >> Yeah. So they won't really look at anything like this. It's more to align it with federal. Yeah. >> Yeah. Because most of the budgets for next year are set. So even if they were to do something, it
130wouldn't really impact next year >> till the next year. >> Yeah. >> Right. because today there's a lot of schools [clears throat] going out for referendums >> and some of them I saw are new >> referendum we counted this morning we pulled it up there are six on the ballot today >> um >> some are new and some aren't >> yes some are some are brand new several are just extensions or renewals um >> well that's what I was going to say that's what I heard last night in Cook mode our ISBA thing there were a couple smaller districts that were saying they were going to go out for a referendum for the first time because $1.4 $4 million loss for them from the state is a huge huge amount of money. >> Yeah. So
131I mean >> if >> what the the interesting thing the interesting thing about this for next year will be this >> the referendum convers conversation in every community if they choose to have it is a very personal >> right. It is >> local conversation and it truly needs to be a conversation between your school leaders and or taxpayers in your community because at the end of the day, this is how I describe it to people. It is literally us asking our friends and neighbors to write us, the school corporation, a check to give us more money that comes straight to us and only us and it doesn't go anywhere else. So, I feel a little extra responsibility because I need to show you that I'm doing good things with that extra money you have chosen
132to give me because you made the choice by voting to give it to us. >> That's that's the way to explain it. A lot of other things go into like a formula and they get handed back out, but this is local money that stays right here. Um, but I think I think board you heard last night, just the few folks that stood up and spoke, a lot more districts are now going to have to have this conversation who have all this time maybe chosen to delay it or not have it or or whatever because they're going to be backed into a corner now because of how tight everything's getting with these changes. And that's what they were saying when the ones set up stood up said, "Well, we're suddenly we're anticipating a million and a
133half loss. There's no way." >> They've pulled for their rainy day fund, transferred 15%. >> They've done all the things and they're out of options and now >> what district was it said there's no way they could get one passed. >> I'm not I didn't catch his district name. I don't know who that was. >> And and and there's there's the thing. Um that's why I say it's a local community and you have to look at their local tax base. You need to look at their local dynamics. certain communities it is a harder conversation than others. Um I it's hard in every community, don't get me wrong, but it's but there are certain factors that influence influence it. >> The other thing that was talked about last night, David, was the cost to do our
134audit >> and that um >> ISBA is going to be possibly like advocating for using a personal or a CPA like a not using district choose. >> Yeah, because it's I didn't realize it was $40,000 every couple of years to do. What are your thoughts on that? Like >> I do like that prospective. What you're saying is that if it's in district u control essentially issue an RFP, which is what way I see is an RFP. Yeah. because uh in my prior role that's that's the way it was that you would issue an RFP because that that relationship with your auditor is um it's kind of like in intimate relationship right like they get into everything about finances >> yeah your even your personal at home person that files your taxes like you know what
135I mean >> right and so it's really important to have like a good relationship with your auditor which uh thankfully we've actually experienced a contracted auditor through crow through state board of accounts right because right state board of accounts was behind on so many audits. So they had to outsource. So they they hired Crow and we were assigned Crow and then >> uh that was the last time and then we were just reassigned them again. And so to have familiar faces, familiar names, they already know us, know our processes, know how to just communicate like that's really helpful. So yeah, if that were to come to us to be our decision, issue an RFP, and then we can talk about the things that, >> you know, we just have go through an interview process to
136be able to select somebody and then I would think probably get less than $40,000, right? Because I think that's >> You think it would be >> I would think so. >> More affordable than that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because at that point in time there would probably be a called a checklist that state board of accounts would put out that you just kind of check those boxes and if you're interviewing three they're going to want the work so that that price get competition right business >> and we talked about last night I think Joe you brought it up about make you know if it's local it's kind of nice too right somebody you know this local that is do it I'm sure there is yeah So, David, do you have any concerns like with where
137we are now moving forward like for future planning? >> The the biggest concerns and we mentioned this during the the budget hearing just uh in my mind. So, everything about a budget in my mind is it hinges on your revenue, right? Because your revenue is what funds your budget. >> And so, then you look at what are our factors going into our revenue. In our case, about two-thirds comes from funding formula and then about another 30% from the or 25 to 30% from property taxes and then the rest is miscellaneous stuff that's kind of like just miscellaneous kind of insignificant. Anyway, so then you look at what's what drives the funding formula student account. >> Yep. >> Well, we we talked about what's happening with our our student account and um and then if you
138look at property taxes, we know what's going on there and that's Senate Bill one with a decreasing uh tax base. And so the the concerns just lie, you know, really on two main things that are outside of our control with the ADM and our tax base based on SEA1. Um, so those are and so so what what does that mean? Well, we have, you know, some there's some things we could potentially look at with with enrollment maybe stabilizes next year and hey, that would be great. We hope so. um you know on the on the tax base side you know we're looking at projections but but maybe with a lot more of um like some of these tip developments coming online you know we just don't we don't know like we can only project 3
139to 4% but maybe it is 7 to 8% of growth on the on the tax base side as well uh same with home you know maybe home home values assessments can continue to go up >> so you know the the the trends right now would suggest hey decreasing but it's almost just a year-by-year thing we just have to take it yearbyear and and hope for the best >> where in the past you could you could you could really look at more than one year right you could look at a couple years right >> yeah it's pretty >> um >> when you're growing it's easy I feel like easier you know like when your student population is >> difficult about different things >> as far as dollars goes that's when you're >> yeah well on that
140you know to remind you too like we talked about like we're in a deficit because you The way I view it, we've experienced three years in a row of property tax reform. We also talk about SB1, but leading up to SB1 this year in 2020 and during the 2025 session, we went through the 20 uh three session and the 24 session, which if you combine the the effects of those on our budget alone. >> Yeah. >> It was $10 million just in those two years, those legislative um hits to us >> before. Yeah. >> Yeah. Before we went in, so that's why we're in a deficit because you know what? We wanted to we were we were thinking that we could see uh the reforms from 23 only be one year like they said they
141were going to be. So we bargained a very lucrative contract for the teachers, right? And then they come the next year and then they capped a referendum fund again. They limited our MLGQ fund again. Uh the the limitation on the waiver was was gone for us. So again, you add up those three things that was $10 million over two years. We're in a deficit and now SB1 hits and we're looking at decreases in uh ADM and tax base. Um, so you know, with the deficit, like I would say, you either, you know, grow your way out or or cut your way out. >> It's it's not likely we're going to be able to to grow our way out for sale. Right. >> So, one thing I was going to just mention, board, because Joe did
142ask last night, he just said the word again a second ago, the idea of riffs. And, um, just so you all know, um, we we have talked with our administrators here a few different times about we need to start thinking about if assuming our student enrollment find trend continues, we do need to also find ways to start gradually and appropriately tightening down staffing levels in the district because that is the way it should go. The challenge though, I think you all understand this, but this might be tough for the community to understand is so this year we did see a fairly significant student drop of about 200 kids. Um, and but the hard part is it's people say, "Well, you you lost 200 kids, so last year you just cut the same number of teachers."
143Well, the trouble is those 200 kids didn't all come from third grade in one building where I could just automatically cut five third grade teachers, right? It's 200 kids spread out over hundreds of classrooms in 10 different schools, right? So it really could only mean like a one or two student difference in each classroom which is not enough to necessarily tip the scales of that. But being as it may, we still have to think about okay so how do we find ways to shore that up because we have to do our part also and one thing that I think that we have to talk about a lot with our community in the next year um is make sure community also understands if if a a referendum um question is put on the ballot again it
144is not that the school system is just coming out with an open hand saying we're not willing to change anything. we just want you to give us more money. The school system is actively working to shore up the budget and do what we can to trim, but always done through the lens of trying our best to do that in ways that protect the student experience and student outcomes as much as we absolutely possibly can. There there may be some disagreement on what that means. There may we may not always be able to do that, but that is the goal is to not do things that are going to take opportunities away from kids. Um now again the loss of the referendum would be a significant shift that that would be unavoidable but right now we
145are doing some things. So we've put a kind of in on principal's minds to start thinking about hey in your schools want you to start thinking about all of your staff and all of your programming. Are there some lowhanging fruit areas that we could consider if someone were to retire or something like that where we could morph some things here in this office? Just so you know, board, we've had two in the last month, and I think it's maybe a little more than that if I go back a little further, of positions that have left that we decided we can just tighten the belt and live without those positions. So, we've absorbed those and and saved a couple hundred,000 for the district. Um, that's going on, I guess, is what is my point. And we
146will talk about that next year. >> That's important. It's important that we do our part. a list because exactly honestly the community should absolutely expect to know what are you doing not just well I'm not going to do anything I just want more money no that's not it we're doing our part but at the end of the day we can't do it all we need to work together >> right so >> yes we need to be able to show what we are doing or have done right >> so I just want to make sure you all know >> we're not talking a lot about that out publicly but it is absolutely happening we're keeping a list so that next year we can say over the last year, two years, five years, whatever. We've actually reduced
147three administrative positions and 10 of these positions and this that and the way in and efforts to continually rebalance the budget back out. >> Um so, but but at the end of the day, again, you all done this a while. You've been involved with school systems a long time. Um we also sometimes have surprise needs that come up that we also have to be ready to add or do things at a moment's notice. The most extreme examples are, you know, um if a special needs student joins our district and they have a certain need that is written in their IEP they must have, we must meet it. There's no there's no if about that or question. >> So David also has to make sure that >> we he has ways to have money on hand
148if we have to hire something like a one-on-one situation. >> That's exactly right. And that happens more than people realize. >> And that's part of the deficit you hear about too, right? So like look, you have to budget in for that to happen. >> Yeah. We're projected to draw down $4 million, but if this doesn't happen, then that's where, you know, you're not drawing down that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. >> Well, and sometimes the needs of the student is far greater financially than what the state gives us for that student. >> That's Yes. >> That happens again more than people realize. >> Um especially in in certain certain areas that that's pretty common. Yeah. So >> that that that gives me a question. Okay. I mean just what we just said >> if not
149to wear if we open the door to taking students in >> how's that weight? I mean can can we not take any special needs students? How do is there a way to take not take the expensive students? So, it's funny you asked that because I was talking with some other superintendents about this idea recently and I and I learned that actually in for certain programs and certain areas there are ways to put a cap on those separate from the general heard we can take three third graders and we could take >> we can absolutely do that. >> I've heard that from other people. I I actually didn't know this, but I believe for certain programs like let's say applied skills um elementary program, I believe there's a way to to figure out what our maximum
150total number and if we see that we just also that just that program would be closed that special program closed. >> I would have to do some really real careful understanding of the of how the legal back end works on that. But that is a very real >> but just thinking down the road 10 years for us. Okay. If if if this 200 keeps happening, okay, or 400 or something. >> That's just your outside district. >> Outside district. >> Any student who lives in Nolesville Township could enroll here anytime they want. >> What about student counts? Because that's two different days in the year, calendar year, right? You actually do a count. Is that what it's based on or is that your aggregate average that the state uses? >> It's however many kids are enrolled
151on October one and they do another count in February one. So, we're saying we have >> it always goes down in February. >> We had 200 less >> from October one from last year's October one. >> Okay, that seems like a horrible way to count students. >> Like, that's the way this thing. >> Well, Brett, [laughter] >> we don't control. >> Thank you. >> Obviously, right? No, >> right. No, I mean, you would never do that in business. They didn't like it. >> It is literally a one time >> snapshot. But why don't we all say everyone has to come to school? >> Well, it's not NO, NO, NO, NO. IT'S NOT THAT ENROLLED. It's registration. >> Who is in our actual It used to be that. No, that used to be it years ago
152when I was a teacher. That's what it was. Like they would do stuff incentivized kids actually physically coming to school because if they weren't physically there, you couldn't count them either. But they got they got rid of that long actual registration. >> So, think of it think of it this way. every student in Indiana who receives public dollars. Um, so they're either at a public school, a charter school, or they're using a voucher, um, they all have a student ID number tagged to them, which how the state just keeps track of where the money's going and where they are. So when I show you guys every once in a while that transfer report, that's what it's tracking. It's tracking all the student ID numbers. And so the the the basically the way to think of
153it is on October one, a kid can only be counted in one place, right? So if they're on the Noblesville books, >> whether they're here or not that day doesn't matter, but it's just only one place can count them. >> So, but that's part of why there's a lag between that and when it's certified because there's always a few kids who just moved. And Typton's arguing, no, no, no, no, no. They already enrolled here. Well, we're saying no, they're still under books. So, we have to clean all those up before it's locked for the state. and then David Hotom Miller only shows up as a noble soul student and we are the only ones who get his money or or not. Sometimes we cleans up the other way. Um so anyway that that is the
154way it works but the problem is it can swing in between those count days and it doesn't matter. Um we will not they won't get counted again or updated until one of those. So it's on a >> however many months between that four or five month cycle >> which means we don't get the money for them. >> That's correct. >> Right. Between February and October, we could get students and we could not get money for them. >> If October one, we have 10,000 students and on October 2, 300 kids decide to move into Noblesville, we're not getting any money for those kids until February 1. >> It's like the >> And if they leave on on January 20 31st, >> we got no money for them at all because we don't get them. And the
155other count day to be aware of because this one matters and this is going to matter a lot this year is December one count is when they count special ed numbers. It's a separate count. >> Okay? And that's when they determine all the extra money that districts get tied to special needs areas like autism. >> Now, does that count only happen once a year? >> That only happens once a year on December one. And the reason I'm mentioning that is because boy, I don't really get else in the weeds, but I don't know if you've heard the state changed um how the special ed and ML programs are being administered on the back end through the soft through their software system. It's all coming into P school now, which whatever. But it the roll out
156has been atrocious. It's not working correctly. It's created a ton of stress and headaches and whatever. And the concern is we're less than a month away from December count. And as of now, we believe our data is still only 82% accurate. >> You can imagine why we're very concerned because there's a lot of money hinging on that December one count and every district in the state is dealing with this issue. So, it's not an US issue, but it's one that we're going to pay the price of if we can't the state can't get this. How many special uh actual classifications for students are there? Because they're based. >> Aaron and Amy can answer that for you. >> Well, yeah. I mean, there's I'm sure there's a lot. >> There's quite a few >> as opposed
157to normal senior high school. >> Only one of those. >> Yeah. >> But an MLS is different. >> That's not special. That's >> Well, a multilingual student is classified differently. Right. >> Well, they're counted as as there's a funding source to that. That's >> and and there's a small funding there's a small funding source for that. Okay. >> It's nowhere near special educational resources very little bit >> within special ed. There's a huge amount of >> it can it's it it's a wide range. There's a very little amount for certain um special ed areas. Some are are quite a bit because they know it's likely to be a one-on-one. >> Yeah, I think they provided the list of the different categories at that presentation. >> Yeah, I think you guys talked about that. >> We
158did. Yeah. Um, >> so anyway, >> how many students do we lose in February from from October? >> There's at least 50 uh midyear grads on average, but you know already that >> it's kind of miscellaneous. So sometimes it can be as high as like 70. >> So you you kind of budget that in knowing >> I mean you semi put that in your >> Yeah. He knows it's coming. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. So 50 rats. We had about 50 rats every year that get done and >> that's probably a pretty good guess. The interesting thing about that, a few years ago, we we really talked to the legislature a lot about, you know, this is very bizarre that you take that funding away from for many grads because >> it's almost like
159you want us to incentivize and encourage kids to do that, but why in the world would we do that when we almost get punished for it? >> I actually didn't even think about that like a friend whose kid is exactly right. They're going to play sports >> and they they had talked a lot about that makes sense and almost reversed it and then they never did and they haven't talked about it again. So, one of these days, I hope they fix that because in my brain, it literally is. >> We've done a good job. >> We're doing a good job. If these students are ready to go and whatever, why in the world would the teach with the district get hit >> and we can't reduce like, okay, that's a rather 50 pe 50 kids
160leave at uh winter break, right? I can't cut teachers mid year. I'm not legally allowed. >> Yeah, that doesn't seem that seems like a big issue. >> It's there, but now we've lost funding. >> Yeah. >> Like a class. >> And in the meantime, we may have gained new students, too. that we still don't get money for. >> Yeah. So, anyway, that's a legislative issue, but yep, they think about. >> Okay. Any other questions? >> Questions? All right. >> Thank you. >> Should >> if it's just a possibility if you wanted to open the district, is that a year-long process or is that something you file and can do right away or >> That's a board decision, >> right? But I mean, >> um board, you would need to change it really should go through
161board policy. Um, and and if if that's support, I will just again, I was telling somebody the other day, I've maybe done too good of a job of like trying to dissuade you guys from even thinking about it. But honestly, maybe we should at least talk about it at some point. But I just I I haven't none of my concerns and things I've shared for you to think about have changed. >> Yeah. >> But >> it is something eventually we may need to decide. Is it something we need to think about? Because there are lots of ways you can do it. We could we could just talk about that this would be an elementary only thing and only two or three elementary schools only, you know, the ones that we feel like have appropriate capacity
162and you could start small and just feel that out. But as I've shared, >> there are some considerations you just need to be prepared for. Um, back to the referendum conversation, I know I've shared it before, but I'm going to say it again. >> A a topic we don't have to talk about right now is that all of our students, if they attend here, their parents pay all the taxes with us. >> Yes. when you accept out of district students, their parents do not pay the property taxes for this >> and it is what it is. I mean, lots of districts have that set up, but it is just it is something to be prepared. You're going to need to acknowledge that and speak to that. >> Well, no, we don't have to take everything
163that that's that. >> Well, you mostly have to take everything. There are a few little limitations we can consider this certain thing, >> but we can say by building though. So, I could say Mobile Crossing has no capacity at all. It's not open. >> Yeah. North can accommodate 10 great students per grade level >> or whatever. And then we'd have to have a very fair impartial way to pick because we don't get to choose handpick the kids though, right? >> So if 15 apply, we have to have a neutral way that they get chosen. Usually districts do a lottery or some sort of whatever. >> Same way with Wayne Township because right now their property taxes go to HSSE. That's right. If we took on Wayne Township, their property tax go >> only the propert
164taxes in Noblesville Township come to Noville schools. That's the way. >> Are we going to make out 200 K? I know that's impossible to determine. >> Make out 200 kids if we open the district. We're not >> open it. >> I don't know. I mean, I would imagine I'm not HSC superintendent, but I would imagine when they open theirs based on the way they talked about it a year ago and some of the limits that they set, I think they anticipated they were going to get several hundred students >> and they're still down 49. They they only they gained less than 100, I think. >> Yeah, I 79. and and so net they're still down like 400 and I forget why it'll be out soon officially. Um >> so I don't know. I would think
165we would have a pretty good number of students who would be interested but you truly don't know. Um >> well I think something you need to also consider is the recent changes for transfer requirements for IHSAA as well. >> That's also a factor. >> Yes. >> And I talked with coaches about that. >> Yes. Some were very very excited about that. I had to remind them all. Again, that's not all roses like you think it is. Other things to think about, you know. >> Yeah. >> So, so but again, um it depends. If we only did elementary, I think you would get some. I would imagine that actually our high school is probably one of our most attractive places people might want to come to, but that also may be something we would decide isn't
166necessarily where we want to add students either. So, I don't I don't know. It's just >> food for thought. If we want to start thinking, >> yes, >> I can start doing some homework and thinking about it if we want to talk about it. But I just >> all the things I've shared, I haven't changed my mind about it. I want you to be thoughtful. >> And in fairness to the community, >> I think we would want to have several months of conversation and letting our community feel like they're a part of this conversation versus a surprise, the board just decided to make this change because I don't think that will end well. >> The uh dollars and cents site, great job on that. How much hits have we been getting? >> Uh I don't
167know. I can pull that. >> Yeah, I'll find out. Um I didn't you know it's like there's no transparency. It's like well this there's been a ton of transparency, right? >> Yeah. You have to look at it though. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Existing. People say well the board hides everything. Have you ever been to board docks? What's that? Well >> have a look. Go have a look. >> We had two extra financial meetings just in the last two months that we didn't have like you know last year like this one on you know. So yeah, >> lot more meetings to talk about it. >> I think the thing to do would be have a virtual school and I know it's a lot of work. >> Well, we've talked about that too, >> but when you
168look at the when you look at all those reports, that's where all those kids go. We >> talked about that too is virtual schooling. >> I think we have to virtual schools as much as [clears throat] possible. It's bad for kids. The fact is the fact is they do it. But >> the reason we haven't done we we literally just talked about this with Scott and Lane yesterday. Um the the main reason we have not in schools really moved forward on that yet because we've talked about several times truly is philosophically we just believe that anything we do as schools we want it to be a high quality >> right >> product that is in line with what we believe we're producing for every child who comes here. >> Sure. >> I have a lot
169of questions and concerns about the quality of what a lot of these virtual schools are doing. So it is possible to do it high quality and we we still may want to enter that game at some point. We just need to make sure that we're going to feel proud putting a noal diploma >> tied to what comes up. >> I think that's a conversation we should consider far above >> open district. >> Oh, I don't I think it has it's at some point it's going to be one or the other. >> Yes. >> How many homeschool do we have that are going through a approved course of some sort, right? Online. Is that normally what? >> Home school. >> Is that what they do? >> Or are you just talking virtual? >> Well, no. like
170someone that is homeschooling throughout Indiana that could actually do a virtual online class with school. They're not counted. >> I mean, are we talking about like a a Midwestern market area for something like that? >> So, if when you again maybe >> How about I think tenatively we should plan maybe the January work session. By then, I should have the new student enrollment report and maybe we should just spend some time and I'll walk you through >> that today. >> Well, we got we got to go. >> We got to wrap it up. I got to get ready. So, but I think it would be good to have talk about open enrollment and virtual >> virtual school. >> Yep. >> Because at some point, if we continue to lose 200 students a year, we're going
171to have to do something. >> Oh, I already have it down. I already had this good idea. I already got it written down. January, >> BUT WE WILL HAVE TO CHANGE. >> I think you'd mentioned that. >> We talked about this before. Hybrid option. >> Yeah, there could. >> So, Dan Dan and Karen are going to send out a calendar soon >> For next year for our work sessions and our board meetings. Everybody needs to look at it and say, "I need to move this one, this one, this one." If they know now, like we talked last night, we already know we have to move the January work session because you're not going to be here. >> Yeah, those January if we could. >> Oh, okay. >> So, so, so whenever as soon as >>
172we have it about ready, I'll I'll send it out maybe yet this week. Um, few I I'll tell you this email to remind you so you don't have to remember from now. July is always one that I feel like every year since I got here, we end up having to shift it because people have vacations. So, if you already know your vacation, please look very carefully July. So we don't have to move it later. Just go ahead and figure it >> out. School board meeting as well. >> Well, that's so that's fine. But if we know now, we'll just you can just approve them and then we don't have to move it later. Um >> there are there are at least >> just compare the calendars. >> I think there's at least two work sessions
173that I anticipate we're going to have to get we're going to have to be go off our normal Tuesday just because of some realities. One of them is related to bargaining and I'll try to explain that in the email so you'll see. Um I have a suggestion of where I think we should put it and then there was another one I forget. Um, ISBA. >> ISBA. Thank you. Because we won't be back in time. >> So, but if everybody would take the time, if you know your vacation, then that way when we approve the calendar in J in our January board meeting. >> So, I'm going give it to you now. >> And then schedule if it's not already, schedule your vacation around. >> Try to work around it. So, I'll give it to you
174about two months early. So, by January, we should >> and then if and then I know it's a lot of work for Karen, but I think in the past she's then sent us calendar invites once we'll do that approve it in January. that I think that makes it >> okay. Yep, >> that makes it good. Okay, >> that is subscribe to the school district's calendar and it should autopop populate. >> You can't It's hard. You can't anymore. It's harder for next year. >> H >> I don't know. I We We'll talk about that. Yeah, cuz I subscribe to >> No tour today. I don't think we have >> I got to go. >> Okay. Wait, wait, wait, wait. We got public comment. >> Public comment. >> No one's here. Um next board meeting is Tuesday,
175November 18th here. 6 o'clock regular board meeting. Um, I need a motion to adjurnn. >> Motion, >> Miss Brett. >> Okay, further discussion. >> Motion carried. Adjourned at 254. Yeah, >> 254. All right, >> we got to go home and change. >> Come right back. >> We'll see you at the high school. >> High school. >> You're coming in door. >> I mean, it's basically right here. >> Is that the one that >> if you park in the front lot >> like you're going in the front door, >> it'll be the door on your right and there should be balloons and all >> where we went in before for the >> Yeah. And it's not [clears throat] like >> opens at 4:30 or 4. >> Opens at 4:00. >> What time is it? [snorts] >>
176Starts at 4:30. I will start probably at 4:45. >> I'll get there 4:43. >> And there's not like And there's not like seat. I mean, it's not like it's like appetizers and stuff, right? >> We're having appetizers. >> Yeah, we're having some food. >> There's no meal. It's more snacky appetizery. He's going to feel very inspire.