001e on now okay um start with them quick remarks from the chair I'm going to repeat what I said last time around um got uh a lot to do tonight or maybe a little to do tonight it's hard to say can't predict uh but we we uh do need the time to be able to work through this as far as comments from the audience go uh anyone who's repeating things we've already heard um we reserve the opportunity to cut you short and have you sit down and then as far as uh comments are concerned I I just ask you to be as brief as possible so I think we have a few things to sort through tonight uh as I said other than that um just move on and go to the comments section so
002how many people have comments you can just come around to the left side maybe line up and then as you come up write your name please on the register eing his dinner on TV good evening everybody my name is Eva Urban Hughes I'm the social cities department head this is my colleague Megan Hilder brand she's the department head unfortunately Gan o' is not here this even she's in the world language department so she was she is the department h um and we're speaking on her behalf this evening as well if anything has become clear in the deliberations the last couple of weeks that good schools require thought to leadership that has student outcomes at the center of our work given the school committee members or local elected officials with full-time jobs we're volunteering their time
003we want to make sure that you have all the information you need about the roles of department heads while you're making decisions all kids department heads and general education teachers impact the teaching and learning of every single kid every day so if there is one number that you remember tonight it's 1,474 that's the number of Masco kids that will be negatively impacted by the consolidation of the two largest departments in the district first we'd like to make clear that Although our jobs are largely behind the scenes running Machinery taking care of teachers communicating with the community and upholding High academic standards department heads are also teachers we teach on average two different classes each day and each semester and these classes include APS honor level level foundational classes that are co-taught with special education teachers
004and individualized learning classes for students who Miss large chunks of school for any given reason but teaching classes is only a fraction of what it is we do and we feel it's important for you to have a clear picture of the impact of combining English and social studies as well as the impact Distributing the World Language Department's heads responsibilities at an organizational level the loss of concentrated leadership in all of these departments will lead to their delution as academic areas generally and will have a profound impact on teaching and learning for Masco students for years to come the impact of the English and social studies combination will diminish the work of both departments and I'm going to spew through some facts for you one Department department head will oversee 35 Staff members this means 35
005grade books to check at the end of each grading period two different budgets to create and manage two different department schedules to develop and maintain that is 175 sections on any given day to support and oversee there are departments that have three four six and eight teachers in them and you've chosen to the largest two departments in the district to combine teacher evaluation and supervision will be severely limited at a minimum one combined Humanities shair will have 125 observations in a year minimum in add in addition to observing the teacher then completing the rubric and narrative and meeting with each teacher post observation as per district and state guidelines as per the teachers contract department heads are primary primary evaluators for the respective members of their departments these evaluations will fall on the shoulders of
006one administrator as will the professional growth and development of 35 teachers teachers individually write goals that are often department and content specific department heads facilitate this process to guide and Mentor teachers throughout the Academic Year a Humanities teacher will attend 12 professional learning communities plc's a week there been some questions about that this is where teachers meet in grade and course level groups weekly led by their department head for accountability growth and content specific professional development up to four sections will be removed from being offered next year including AP government and core classes will need to be absorbed within remaining SE remaining sections raising class sizes for all kids the English guided learning curriculum that was developed for students grades 9 through 12 who Miss large chunks of school to ensure they don't miss valuable
007content and skills will cease to exist that program is overseen and facilitated by me over the past two years 40 students have flowed in and out of that program for varying degrees of Time Each depending on their needs if our goal is to keep vulnerable kids in the district and on a path to graduation this is counterproductive expect that they will be farmed out to online and sub subpar programs none of this work falls under the job of the director of teaching and learning as per the last school committee meeting the World Language department head position will be vacated on October 1st not fill through at least the remainder of the Year this has implications for the remaining department heads especially the English and social cities Department the work of the World Language department head
008which includes much of the work listed above will need to be absorbed the following tasks are unique to the World Language Department all of these responsibilities will need to be reassigned overseeing the global diploma program an extraordinarily popular program here at ncco and it should be noted that this popular Masco program has historically been coordinated with social studies Department it includes courses from all of the Departments and especially the social cities Department as required benchmarks the Seal of biliteracy testing for eth and 12th graders scheduling and administrating ordering you know cords and pins and all the things that go with that has to be redistributed help coordinate exchange trips another international travel and then finally to advocate for all three language programs for the continue to study of language throughout the year the impacts combining
009the largest departments in the district will have a de will will have a devastating impact on the overall academic programs teacher suit provision and evaluation and the programming of each respective Department we urge you to consider these impacts to decide whether or not to combine the roles lastly because nobody has been able to show you this or speak to this this is the roles of the department chairs if you need this is what you y yep to us Cas just in case never know thank you thank you hi I'm Alexis cus wissow I'm an adjustment counsel 20 years in Boxford um so I wanted to um speak tonight just last last year I was here around the same time um thanking you to um for listening to all of the data and all the information
010that supported having the seven adjustment counselors working here across the district um I've been here actually over the years and I've presented numerous times um to various School committees uming the work that we're doing and the progress that we're making and all of the gains that we've made with our students here at Masco and I'm really proud to say that like even just recently going through the data regarding the progress that we've made I'm very impressed by the work that's been done over the past few years having the additional adjustment councelors that we um accepted into the budget last year um with that we've been able to do a ton of really amazing work and um created a system where we're able to really be more proactive as opposed to crisis oriented and the work
011that we're doing with our kids and I have we we have seen a dramatic um shift in kind of the way in which the students are feeling connected and engaged and also uh decreased and a lot of the um other pieces like the crises and the hospitalizations and that sort of thing and so with that being said I just I I really urge you and I want to reiterate the importance of maintaining the staff that we have um I think that it it will lend itself to creating more amazing programming in addition to decreasing um any kind of outof District situations that we may come into the mental health Realm of the work that we do with our kids so that was I just want to bring that to your attention and remind you of
012the important work that's being done I'm super proud of it I'm really grateful that you um accepted these two positions each budget last year there was a lot of work that was done around it so um that was it thank you sorry so hello my name is Gian damato and I'm a senior in the Masco band who strives to become a music educator one day thank you to the inspiration of the department heads of the Performing Arts here at Masco Mr Cassidy and Mr I'd like to start off by asking the members of the school committee to raise their hands if they participated in the Performing Arts at all in the visual arts so if you do you know that they are not at all the same thing in fact the only similarity these two
013share is that they have the word art nothing about the contents of either subject you're teared by the two they are two entirely different Departments of Education with different knowledge of between the department heads it does not make sense to combine completely different departments that share nothing in common while it's easy to stand here and wonder how it got to the point where a significant number of teachers need to be cut in order to meet budget requir ments I'd rather question the manner in which the problem is solved if you have cracks in a foundation you don't solve the problem by completely changing the foundation the cracks in our education system would be turned into holes if unrelated departments are combined which is what concerns me as well as the dozens of other teachers and
014students in the room as a student who is passionate about the Performing Arts here at Masco I'm asking you to please think about all the people in this room asking you to reconsider your plan it is simply not logical to comply departments with unrelated subjects additionally as someone who strives to be a music educator one day I can't help but think how my path would have been completely altered had I not had a performing arts department head such as Mr O'Keefe or Mr Cassie with specific knowledge and what they do as well as connections that I'm using on my internship to help me become a music educator one day having a different department head such as a visual department head that doesn't have the same knowledge connections that Mr Cassie or Mr o'keef would have
015had would have completely changed my career plan and I can't help but wonder if I would have been as happy doing something else thank you and I hope you hear the students behind me pleading that you change change your plan um please excuse I'm very underdressed I had to race to get back here but I did wear Mas my name's Riley finnean um I teach English in the high school and this is my 20th year at mascow and um actually grew up in Topsfield also so I have always loved telling people that I teach at Masco I went to Masco because they the response is always what a great District wow you must you're so lucky you must have great kids and that is absolutely true and um much like Gian was just saying you
016know I worry about the cracks in the foundation and I think that you know and I always I try to practice this um as well as preach it but I think that our actions speak louder than our words so we can only say we're great we're great we're great so many times while then chipping away at the foundation of what makes us great before the words don't match up with reality and and the department heads are a big part of what makes Masco great and so when there was The Proposal of well we could cut positions or combine positions and while other schools don't do it this way to me that's all the more reason to say well let's keep doing it because I think what sets Masco apart is that we do things differently
017and good enough isn't good enough for us and we try to excel we try to be Exemplar so we shouldn't be following what you know any number of other schools do because for my 20 years we've had Department chairs and I've had that individualized mentoring and coaching and guidance specific to my subject the thing that makes Masco great besides the phenomenal kids I get every single year and people are like no you're lying like they must be annoying I'm like no no they're like really great and that's because of the community and it's also the teachers and that's a trickle down effect from the department heads so I would equate this with you know they are coaches and we would never say to the lacrosse coach hey you just started your season today you're in
018charge of the baseball team too I mean you're both on grass you're in the same general area I'm sure you can do that and the lacrosse coach will do a really good work and probably make sure you know they've got equipment and they've got a field but when the baseball player comes to the lacrosse coach and says hey you know I'm having trouble with the slider what is the lacrosse coach gonna say you know and so the baseball player now stagnates and can't improve and you get that individualized coaching that attention from your department head who has taught and who has been in the department head position and seen all sides of it not to mention you know my department head Meg hildbrand who's been here 18 years 19 years one year behind me I
019mean that would be a shame to lose someone who is a piece of the Masco foundation so we need to not chip away at that foundation and instead strengthen it and build it up thank you thank you uh hello my name is Heather cotay I'm an English teacher here at mass anomet for grades 9 through 11 uh I wanted to speak tonight as someone that could be directly affected by the decisions that you make here not only does my position potentially hang in the balance but so does my department heads Megan Hill de brand uh if you choose to discuss putting direct student facing positions again tonight it's imperative you understand the whole picture of what these positions are and the people that hold them I came to mow four years ago teaching English electives
020for the eth grade uh from my first meeting with Meg she knew my ambition was to teach high school students and that my uh placement in the eth grade wasn't really my Preferred Choice but she assured me that mascow is a place that Fosters growth and opportunity for its teachers and at the end of my second year I secured a position in the high school with Meg's support and with her guidance during that time I also took on an adviser role for the class of 2027 so I work directly with the class officers to uh events like the freshman sophomore semiformal I also guide them in their fundraisers and their other activities uh that they put on to ensure a memorable class experience for them and their classmates each year I've been here I've worked
021on fostering rich and meaningful relationships with my students and with my colleagues it's been an everchanging challenge that I've welcomed consistently teaching new courses learning new curriculum for my new grade levels each year has also had times of uncertainty as this is my third time not knowing if my position will exist for the following school year the eighth grade electives that I started out teaching are no longer offered last year you chose to eliminate a high school English position among several others in order to add a singular hired paid position that has relatively no impact on that day-to-day lives of our students and now my position again is at risk of being cut critical and crucial department head positions like Megs are at risk of being cut through everything I could not have taught effectively
022or managed without Meg's support she's had my back time and time again when I've needed it without her skills without her expertise like Riley explained I don't believe I'd be the teacher I am right now she helped shape the teachers that interact with these students every single day and she works directly with them herself as you already heard earlier uh for this upcoming school year I've created a new elective course that has already started to gain a lot of interest from students I heard earlier that there's already like over 60 students that have signed up to to take it for next year uh without department heads that teach other classes the rest of the department will need to take them over instead of being able to offer exciting electives uh you know that make Masco
023stand out we need to be adding to the W this deeply woven fabric that makes Mas uni unique and not start to unravel it thread by thread by eliminating department heads it trickles down into what the teachers are able to provide and then into what the students won't will or won't have access to I implore you that before you might be quick to decide that English and history are natural areas to combine or that you make decisions to cut people from their position who have a direct connection and a relationship with the students here that you consider all options that you fully understand all of the possibilities if you want to combine departments consider merging smaller ones together rather than two of the most largest and most critical of the whole school if you want
024to eliminate a position attached to a person that walks the Halls every single day and engages with your children every single day consider positions where there are already people that are choosing to depart for next year you must understand it's not just a simple decision to remove a role it's detrimental and irreplaceable loss of teachers counselors advisers mentors these are the roles that matter the most to your students and I know it's part of your job to focus on the budget and on cutting costs during times like these but remember that when you're looking at these slid tonight that these positions are not simply dollar signs they're not just list items on your list of scenarios they're positions that are people and they are to quote what I heard last week said what make Masco
025exceptional and not just adequate thank you good evening my name is Nicholas Heely I've been a school high school um guidance Council here since 2015 um first of all I like to thank all of you for the vital work you do in local government um after watching previous meeting I have some insights I'd like to share related to the goals the roles excuse me of school guidance and adjustment counselors and how we work together as a cohesive team in the high school both guidance and adjustment counselors are are the First Responders when students are in Mental Health crisis and we collaborate to meet their needs together both types of counselors Provide support for students who are struggling with issues of self-esteem family stress peer conflict and all the ups and downs of adolescence at Masco
026every student has a school guidance counselor who works with them for all four years of high school with the goal of helping them through building a supportive long-term impactful relationship we also play a vital role in supporting parents throughout the high school Journey as senior year unfolds the guidance counselor often helps seniors and their parents to navigate the challenging emotions and decisions that naturally come with charting College and Career plans for after high school I want to stress that because we have a solid School adjustment counseling staff that are assigned to work with the students who have the biggest challenges and nurses who are always ready to help out in a pinch that it allows school guidance concors to be proactive and to spend time in classrooms teaching every student time management skills engaging them
027in career exploration and providing robust support in researching and applying to colleges in addition every year the guidance counselors meet with each student at least once one onone help them reflect on their strengths process their struggles find their passions and plan for the future this process would not look the same with the 250 to1 student to guidance counselor ratio nor would it be as effective with a reduction and adjustment counseling staff closing I'd like to recognize the leadership of Brad Denton Katie dinardo and Julie Dame mates as leaders in our school of the last few years they know that having enough counselors keeps kids in school that it keeps them from ending up in costly added District placements and it's sophistically responsible thing to do I know your decisions are tough and I want to
028thank you for taking the time to listen and for your service to our Community thank you my name is Shannon Murphy and I have taught English here at mascow for 23 years um I know that the school committee is in an extremely difficult position tonight and my colleagues and students have spoken so eloquently uh about the importance of each position that you are considering eliminating I also know that if money were No Object you would move Heaven and Earth for Masco students for your children I just want to add two points to consider as you deliberate tonight first while it appears for now according to the three scenarios the teaching positions are off the table I do want to reiterate that you cannot cut a teaching position without negatively impacting learning even if you preserve
029the courses that are currently being offered which is no guarantee what Sarah Smith said about the math department at last Wednesday's meeting applies across departments the scheduling process is immensely complex principles counselors and department heads have to figure out which periods to off classes by factoring in student interest and faculty availability when student interest allows only a single section of a course to run enrollment in that course can sometimes decrease when that particular class is only offered during the same period as another single section course this puts students in the position of deciding whether to take AP English Lit or AP US gov band or French these conflicts already happen with current Staffing levels and they often explain why some courses end up with lower numbers than others able to run those courses with fewer
030students without over enrolling other courses depends on some wiggle room so that admin can meet the need of the largest number of MCO students while balancing the teaching loads of Staff qualified to teach those courses if you cut teachers and you want to avoid cutting AP classes and electives other class sizes will go up and by more than the one to two students that average class size would lead you to believe AP students deserve to challenge themselves in the courses about which they are most passionate and CP students deserve deserve just as much individualized attention as students the game of average class size does not present an accurate picture teachers please do not fool yourselves into thinking that cutting a teaching Position will have minimal impacts on student learning secondly you have heard clearly the
031message from many stakeholders that they would like you to look at administrative cost savings rather than student facing rules and not the department heads who work directly with students and staff to improve learning outcomes last week you heard that we run a lean Administration only six positions presumably our superintendent assistant superintendents and principles however administrative costs go beyond the salaries of these six individuals why are we spending money on public relations Consultants why have we spent money on Consultants to develop an educational Vision when we employ educational leaders who were hired for their Vision why has the staff of the central office exploded over the years when student enrollment has been shrinking and when the number of schools two in a shared building has remained stable want to examine ratios of Staffing to students please
032do so equitably I understand that eliminating staff is not a decision anyone makes lately I am so very grateful to those of you who are centering what is best for students in these times and we are all feeling a budgetary pinch and who are willing to make that case to your towns thank thank you thank you I'm gonna sign in first I'm just a drain hi everyone uh ni zorus you've heard from me um I want to start with uh just kind of saying out loud something I I I've meant to say before but I want to start with this this is grueling and I understand that this must be a very difficult thing to do observing this over the last few weeks has been exhausting um and I do not envy the position you've
033been put into that is uh again I I mentioned before this is Civic service at its highest order I believe that having said that I it's incumbent upon me to speak for those who either can't or are unel to do so so um in in regards to the department heads um just a few months ago seems like years ago at this point but just a few months ago we Bon a contract as part of that contract one of the central uh arguments from uh the administration and school committee was the notion of uh increased uh availability for observation to combine departments or to change the foundation of departments would destroy that in a very real way um or the very minimum would require a complete buildup from the Round Up um to what observation is
034department heads are the foundation of observations as Meg stated earlier uh my primary uh Observer is Eva um who I am capable and willing uh and able to work with on a weekly basis who checks in with us and make sure that we have the resources we need um and understands fully what I am teaching in my class at any time um it should may be the person in in put into that position that makes that job I impossible in a very real way while I appreciate maid's ability to do her job her background is English her background is not history her background is not Civics she does not have training in that she does not have education in that and therefore my observations are going to suffer and to trust that onto one person
035who could potentially oversee 50 somewhat people is would it be catastrophic in regards to the library um I can certainly appreciate the fact that when you're considering this and how difficult it is to make cuts you may view the librarian as something that is less or student facing than other teaching positions however I want to State unequivocally that the librarian plays a fundamental and foundational role in what we do whether it be organizing research items whether it be trying to develop materials for the district to use to save money uh the Middle School librarian plays a huge role and I also think it would be fool hearty to believe just I don't you know but it would be full hearted to believe that the assistants Who currently work there under the leadership of the librarian
036will continue wanting to work there without the leadership of the librarian and that's important to State out loud um so just for the sake of saying um and then just as an aside for the sake of again speaking for those who don't necessarily have a voice this building is being held together by sheer will you know that okay it's a rainy night which makes me a little nervous right these are things we have to address moving forward to get rid of an mpft to mean seems again like not good timing when we are literally holding this building together uh with with sheer will and I would encourage you again my primary has to be for the teaching staff right so I say this with the expectation that it would not cost us but for the
037sake of saying out loud having mpfts is important they matter uh and their work is noticeable they were running around all day to day they were impossible to miss secondly we have three security officers uh I have not felt safe in a school probably my entire career I don't say that to be dramatic I say it to be honest we live in a scary world schools have been the center of much of that the work that Mike and the rest of the folks who work down there do is immeasurable uh they oversee lunches they keep an eye on the students while they're in school they worked uh on Alice training to make sure that we know what we're doing the students know what they're doing should the worst occur and the school's better off for
038it um so I can appreciate the fact that the purpose of this meeting is that something has to go I didn't say I was going to make your life easier um but I think it's important to State all of this out loud so that as you make these decisions you understand that realistically every single thing you cut will have an immense effect on this school uh I don't envy your position I appreciate the fact that you're working very hard to do this and trying to to make the right decisions I hope you do thank you very much Middle School Dance recently or is it coming whato I really thought we might get like a demo from the Middle School Dance that's what I was hoping for because I heard he's famous for his dancing at
039those dances um anyway all right that doesn't count toward my time I was just siging in yeah it does Counts from Top Spiel hi everybody um so Nico just really really hard he thought he definitely didn't make it easier for you because he made a case for absolutely everything to stay in the budget and then you have to go to the towns and convince them so I'm here to talk briefly about process seeing what's been demonstrated over the last few weeks I was away the week of the public hearing but I watched it online and um there's been several times where I'm like oh there it is there's the Masco family there's the family that like got me invested in when in becoming part of this V media a while ago um and I was
040a little bit surprised to see that it felt like a lot of the school committee was not as familiar with this family and that they were having to now in the 11th Hour show you who they are and so I just want to mention for anyone who what hasn't been around for a while that in the past we have had a part of process within the budget process that included FaceTime with the budget holders from within the district um in recent years it was mostly the department heads prior to that it also included other budget holders like the facilities director and the security director and the school committee got to see all of this earlier on in the budget process so when you were put in these positions where you have to make these absolutely
041impossible decisions you felt better equipped to understand what you were doing or we did um so I'm saying this now instead of waiting to after the budget process because I have their's eyes on this moment and I would like to see it um I would suggest you consider this for next year whoever's still on the committee and for moving forward um it also helps with morale and um the next thing I wanted to mention is when I look at this picture that you guys are looking at I do think there are some positions that touch more students than others not always in the most obvious ways so I've already spoken about the nurses being like the fr lines um of communication and relationship with families especially in the most acute instances and if one person
042is out like their team is almost nothing talk about a slim Administration you've got a slim nursing team that's touching every single student every every single student across all sixth grades you've got the middle school nurse I mean not nurse a librarian again these if you have one Li liian they're now touching every single student across all sixth grades I believe that there's a piece of that experience of school that um just that would make me very sad I will say um and then the last thing is uh you know we the towns are in fact in a worsening situation and you don't have everything you're Nico just spelled it out for you like everything you're cutting affects people so I I know the answer will be oh that's too hard that's too complicated I'm
043kind of I got very over that answer on my exit from the school committee but there are a few things like what I mentioned last time administrators across the board voluntarily taking a pay reduction what about an emergency meeting with the MTA and asking if they could there could be a revision or anou their salary increase is adjusted in order to save like I feel that there's not enough team when I watch this process and I feel like with more team there's more creativity and there's more meeting each other halfway um the other one that I forgot to mention as far as touching all students is with the adjustment counselor um positions that having this the capacity to have the self team to train the rest of the teachers onal strategies and Trauma informed learning
044in the classroom that ends up touching every single student and the other one was um give me a second it come oh there was a I'm not correct me if I'm wrong but I believe I heard that someone was talking about capacity in each uh subject area and that there was some excess capacity in English and I thought well English is where we're we're inheriting so many reading challenges from the trown school Union right now they're doing their work to try to repair that but in the meantime Masco has a lot of work and that's where some students end up out a district that may have been able to stay here what if there was like a shift in what the tit are within the English Department and somebody really becomes a reading specialist That's
045training every other teacher on the techniques coordinating with the CAC having Mike has talked many times about having Landmark training I don't know if you've done it or not but at MCO like done at your past District so I'm just putting all those things out there because you don't have enough to think about um but my hope is that maybe with my experience District over the years some of those thoughts might resonate and and help you really push outside the box thank you Billy hello I'm uh no one Ballinger from uh the Freshman Class I'm from Topsfield uh I've already spoken but I'd like to uh help the people here and especially you guys appreciate the sheer gravity of this situation uh I get that it's really hard pick what needs to go it's already
046been said like something needs to be cut I get that however combining history department and English Department together under one huge department does not make any sense they have nothing similar except fact they both use books and words how many of these students behind me want to be archaeologists or historians or linguists how many of them are going affected you have thousands of livelihoods and Futures on your shoulders at this present moment and if you don't treat it carefully which I expect you're going to be doing it could all come crashing and burning down listen to us listen to your students listen to your teachers listen to your department heads we implore you please just listen thank you thank you Nolan okay for the big dance I think um move on to the budget deliberation
047section anyone have want to make opening comments or want to take the floor and give their opinion on anything I've got an opinion but I don't want to lead the committee too much I should be facilitating more than dragging people around you have a hand up of go ahead Matt um so the Middleton Representatives met over the weekend and deliberate a little bit to try to come to some consensus on budget line items if the time is right tonight I'm happy to share what that consensus was that we came to that's now or later FL is open open discussion go for it okay you want me to share do you want me to just talk and do you want a graphic or anything like is it possible for to share online Jo gra the link
048or just send it to me man send it to you yes email it yeah email it to me and then and people just speak up the audience can't hear oh it's a story of my life thank you Matt's just trying to find a creative way to share information on demand that's all did I that's saying yeah he does but mat was first yeah I can wait thanks we can go to Jeff while while you're figuring out if you'd like I just sent it should be there in a second oh you sent it okay sent it to all of us I did so while that comes up maybe I'll just start with a couple comments right um and thank you to those who spoke thank you to those who recognize the difficult position that we're in
049I don't consider myself a nearly as difficult a position as you guys are in I go home like I'll have a I have a job tomorrow right I understand this is very very real life for you guys very hard and I'm sorry that we have to do this with you guys okay um I'll say that we heard we heard you um the folks in Middleton have tried to put together a plan that has as minimal of an impact as possible um we heard that you do not want to touch student facing positions we think we've found a way to do just that um so is it coming through Mike no me just I didn't get it either so I don't know un connected why don't we uh maybe let Jeff make a comment and then
050come back Matt is that okay y Jeff go ahead okay thanks no I'm proba I think Matt I on the same page just you know as always this is a tough time of year for all of us um you know for me this is my second year here on the school committee and this is the second year we've had to deal with budget constraints so I think most of us can agree that you know none of us joined here to to be cutting budgets and affecting staff so you know I think when we hear the speakers students parents teachers everybody we we do you know we appreciate that we we feel it as well um but at the end of the day you know we do have you know multiple stakeholders we're getting a lot
051of feedback and we're you doing our best to get to a point where we can you know justify the budget and also minimize you know really kind of doing harm to the school and keep it going in a way that Masco deserves so I think we have you know three scenarios coming up today after you know many days of deliberations already I think we're getting close um you know one of the topics last year was or last meeting was you know what's the right number and as I said before I think we all kind agree it's there there is no hard number that we're targeting you know it's a rest assessment a got check out for each of us um and you from these three scenarios I I think we're getting close to to a
052balance of being a place that's reasonable um I still think the probably the first two snares are probably um a little light but I do think the third one's probably a little aggressive um yeah I think it cuts a little too deep I know I threw out a few things myself that you know I would have no problem just going back and forth on debating but I think somewhere between you know proposition proz two and three are probably the you know where we should probably targeting as a school committee at this point okay thanks Jeff sure thanks we got it hold on to talk through this or do you want to just let everybody digest there for a second or talk through it please okay so there are a couple attrition positions in here and
053again I'll look at the audience while I speak I feel like I should look you in the eye there are a couple of attrition positions in here and I know that it's hard not to backfill those positions but our thought was we want to protect the people that are here today okay we have to make some decisions here that are going to be hard and we we felt like attrition was probably a place that we could at least temporarily go after it's better than getting rid of somebody who's already here there are no teaching positions in here there are no department head positions in this list okay we heard you um The Librarian is in there and I'm sorry that's one position that we did not want to add on it but we just we
054felt like we had to come up with numbers somewhere and I we understand the impact that the librarian has and we made that decision um starting at the top the high school business teaching position the high school support staff position um we talked about those the other night uh deferred the far assess F assessment I think you call something like that the table Stakes Joe high school student activity accounts audit until FY 27 math and math resources so again these are the table Stakes you were talking about Joe um increase all athletic and co-curricular user uh user fees by 12 and a half% we thought was fair I know there was talking about 10% originally there was talking about 25% the other day we felt 25% was going to put a lot of burden on
055families and so felt comfortable going up to 12 and a half% um the General Ed par professional position um Joe I think we talked about that um the discretionary cost reductions by the administration um again we decided we understand it's going to be difficult we also understand that we're not getting rid of the position we're just not filling it next year with the World Language department head right so this is six seven months of hardship and we understand the hardship but it's better than doing something with de um again I spoke about the librarian position um we understand the role that this person plays we understand the hardship it's going to it's going to make um but it's not a teacher right now it's not a department head um the security staff we deliberated on
056for a little while we actually we had questions about the security staff we're not really sure it's security staff security staff as the world might think it's security staff um so I'd like to get a little bit of clarity on that but um but that was one we put on there and then the assistant P assistant principal position on there I know that's a hard thing to swallow but we heard look at Administration don't just look at the student facing positions I know the I know this assistant we know this assistant principal is student facing um but it's not a classroom teacher so we got say 123,000 which you know I stood up in front of my town last year in front of I don't know 400 people and I saw our Capital project get
057shot down I'm hopeful that that this number will help us get all three towns to a budget that will pass y go thanks um we also had an addition we did have one addition I'm sorry so about the the parking yeah so Trevor suggested raising the parking fees from $100 per year to $150 per year je Sans do you know how much that impacts probably 10 grand we got a estimated about 10 grand but I mean it's in the same line as the co-curricular activities right the expenses are going up to maintain it maintain the parking lot we have to keep up with those expenses somehow yeah it doesn't show up in the same account Matt but I get your point it shows up as miscellaneous revenue comments Melissa I have two concerns that I
058was going to ask anyway before this so the world how is the department had position how is that Envision being absorbed into the school because what I would hate to happen is that we have complete chaos and then not be able to fill that POS not be able to add that position next year because we don't know what our budget's going to look like we don't know what the state of the world's going to look like in three months one month let alone in 12 um so that was my question um I I think and I don't know if there's any for language we're language teachers here but I believe there's it's a big year for exchanges maybe next year I think there are some exchanges coming up there's some exchanges next year's exchanges yes
059okay um so that was my question because that again affects students um but it also affects our teachers and I guess that what is that envisioned and I can't speak for anyone else but I do not support losing a an assistant principal position I can't get behind that at all they're the people who make the school run and if we're also cutting a high school support staff in the same house I think it is right well they were in that but in one of the one of the houses the houses yeah so it'd be jocking people around but maybe I can speak to the AP having one assistant principal to a thousand kids is unattainable there's just too much that they do between relationships with the kids relationships with the staff the department heads parents
060I mean one student can eat the whole day and the other assistant principal is and triaging everybody um to have one is is absolutely unattainable um from the high school perspective there's just too much going on to I mean right now it's a it's a great mix we have two they're in charge of you know each grade they help each other out they work together we have a great team um do a lot of collaboration and just there's so much going on between the lunches the after school activities the dances the daytoday every day um to put that on one human being is is not okay and and then I have a question for the Middleton WS did you have a number that you were targeting um this was the ballp pocket we were targeting
061okay HRA I was just gonna say for me it wasn't I mean yes for a budget we're looking at numbers but for me I was I was trying in my head to have the least least severe impact as as like with the two roles that would not be filled with the assistant principal and the uh World Language head like for me I'm just trying to think the least amount of people that we have to say you don't have you do not have a job that's that's where my head was at it was trying to be as positive as possible with moving like somebody leaving and not having to say to somebody you don't have a job anymore that's that's where my mind was at with trying our very best to have the least amount of
062impact as possible so I mean I just not really anything more to that I just that was my mindset is where are people leaving or the idea of retirements and where we could could we get away with it but finding out what that means so for example the assistant principal rule once that is not once we shift that person down is there ever an opportunity for that to come back whereas the World Language I think from the last meeting that would be that salary would be held position remains open sorong not the salary would not be held though no no no but the position would be it was not exists exists sorry it would have to go through the same process next year right right yeah it it won't be funded so that's another hund
063is it 110,000 is that what it say7 117 that we have to then add back corre if we find and if we find out that a principal position is it's not survival able to our school now we're looking at over $300,000 to that we have to it's harder to add back than to increase which is the equivalent of 1% right yeah and that that's a big number and once we take that out it's gone we have to then come up with our 20 fiscal 27 increase plus the $300,000 in increase that's related to that M I know what you're saying but you can say that about every single position on the list at the same time right but those are the ones that I feel have the greatest impact to student facing decision so I'm
064I'm voicing my opinion and I have that right you do absolutely all right I'll make a comment then um just before I came here I got an email saying that no matter what we do it's not going to be enough and and um there's going to be a need for an over rod in Boxford period so um you know I feel like we we should optimize um It's Kind it's a funny word I guess but um in the end we need we need to be responsible um and yet we need to make it so that we can continue to run this place um to the benefit of our students faculty staff Etc and for me the assistant principal position I've heard enough from Katie and others about the impact that that's going to have on
065them whereas in my opinion there are some other roles that we could look at um that I would put in sort of the same bucket which is you know non-classroom related functions right so I was looking at it and thinking well if we have to make a cut in this area trying to balance what makes more sense getting rid of an assistant principle and having to cut an assistant principle or are we better off looking at an adjustments counselor plus the security position both cases are sort of geared at addressing student behavior issues very different types of student Behavior issues but rather than the assistant principal I would rather see those other two positions and you already listed one of them up here with the security position so I would prefer myself um to have
066an adjustment counselor on the list and why would I do that we've got six grades we've got seven adjustment counselors and we heard that they follow the kids through their entire career that's one great that's not that's wrong that's not true Joe counselor and adjustment counselor okay so six for six seems like a relatively reasonable number make I will vote no on any budget that removes an adjustment Council any else that would vote no on any budget that removes an adjustment counselor can I just show of hands I don't think any of this is that clearcut for me I think there are enormous amount of interdependencies across everything and I think that the show of hands yes or no really is reductive in a very complicated situation so I would be in favor of less
067of that and more discussion well the answer to the to the question then is simply no you wouldn't you wouldn't say you wouldn't do it just based on that so that's the answer great we can have a long discussion on it or we can just say yes or no and and get get to the Point that's that's where I was going okay go ahead Phil yeah say one thing um you know we need to keep in mind that um the U one page that we don't have in front of us tonight that we we shared a lot earlier on which was the uh the uncontrollable expenses that that popped up this year um and and I mean it's my hope would be that that we're not going to see something like that every year um
068and and Jeff correct me if I'm wrong for having that sort of hope uh but that that that um my my hope is that that we're in a uniquely bad sight situation this year and yes we know that with the contracts that we have um and there will be out of placements take I'm sorry out of District placements um that that number may not go down but there shouldn't be the you know the perfect storm of of increases that that really were a shock to our system this year is that fair I I think it's really hard to say bill um you know one of the things that I think I'm I'm pretty certain is going to happen next year as we discussed during the U forecast uh back in January is um you know
069the the absence of any end Revenue right so um we've got over $700,000 worth of quote unquote excess end this year uh I don't anticipate having any next year so that's 700,000 so where we might not have a perfect storm with respect to um non-controllable costs uh there is the possibility of some of these cost categories having the same types of increases alongside of the loss of $700,000 worth of end so I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see us having the same type of conversation 12 months from now okay thank you yep see Trevor's joined us welcome Trevor all all right so we have a proposal on the board from Middleton that's what it looks like uh does anyone have any other proposals I'll I'll list mine then the second one can we weren't we
070supposed to look at the ones we asked for the Alternatives yeah let's look at them that's and Mike did all work let's go to position to proposal number one alternative number one which is the 698 314 this is a proposal that that was every that more or less had support from the entire committee right that's correct so let me let me ask a question here how many people here think this is enough show of hands I I I'm having a hard time what is enough a number everybody wants something different I don't the number just the number enough for you is it enough for you I don't know like because I keep thinking next year next year is going to be harder next year we're asking for the capital budget should we make the really
071hard decisions and take make a larger number which is what we were looking at this year to make it easier next year I think it's very shortsighted to just go okay this is what we're having next year and not think about next year because next year's going to be twice as hard I'm sorry I think it is going to be twice as hard I'm not saying don't think about next year I so but to say is 700,000 enough for me I I don't know I don't like any of this I've lost SLE I'm sorry I'm going on four hour right now so this is not I don't want to lose any of you and it's very hard to say I would like to keep every single one of this these people on here okay by
072the way hurt it was not it was not made lightly not not even REM none of this is L so let's go to Chris please I appreciate your comments Lisa tremendously um and I'm thinking a lot about next year in many ways also because we're looking at the capital um budget and the building investment that needs to be made and I've been in many many meetings on that topic but this week we really need to look at this year because there are so many things coming down the pipe that we can't even imagine for next year we cannot guess right now or predict what the outof district tuitions might look like we cannot anticipate what state support might look like so what we have to work with today is the data that we have the
073feedback that we're getting and what we think our towns will pass so that's where I do like Matt bringing up up the question again and again what number we're aiming for we have to come up with a budget that our fincom will give a stamp of approval to that our Board of SE that our select boards will appreciate and will'll also know we've done the hard work because their endorsements will help us get the votes at town meeting and at the ballots a failed override will be so problematic we'll be getting rid of far more positions than the ones that we're considering today we have to keep emphasizing what failing at town meeting or failing at the ballot would do to our schools and I think that's where those of us who have been to
074this Rodeo before are trying to come up with a number that we've heard and have socialized will be palatable to our towns and our taxpayers so we've got some really hard decisions to make but we can't we can't say yes to everything and I appreciate all the feedback that so many people have made but so all the feedback so many people have delivered the students former school committee members and such but we're not getting any help and advice on where we can make reductions we're just being told keep everything in but you know find the number get blood from a stone so we're gonna have to make some really really difficult decisions in the next couple days Jeff thanks you know Chris said what I was about to say probably more eloquently but just to
075set up as as numbers you know we're you know we're struggling internally as as a school Community between you know this is $700,000 scenario and the highest is 1.3 and we're struggling right this is a hard conversation to have for all of us but to Chris's point you know if you know if two out of three Talent don't pass an override we're not just dealing with a 600 700 000 adjustment we're talking about you know $2.7 million we have to find in the budget in two months from now and that's a much much harder conversation and that one you don't recover from there's no second either we pass or we or we fail on the override if we fail that's that you know we're we're coming back together we have to find almost $3 million
076out of already thin budget so this is painful but you know we have to get to a point where we feel like we can get to a number that can satisfy you know the voters um you know we definitely need select committee fincom support but this is in the end of the day is going regardless to an override just based on the towns there someone up there that had a hand upe Melissa I had a question on there was just a slide up was the it had the uncontrollable costs that number in at the bottom the $71,000 what percentage over what percentage does that represent to bring us down to two and a half over uncontrollable non-controllable that would bring us down a little over 2% Melissa so maybe like two 2.1 2.2% so from
0779.9 to 7.8 but over the non so that would represent the increase in our budget that we can control it's about 2 and a half% is 830k roughly right but over the but the budget less that less right there right so if we were to reduce 71,000 that would leave an a an assessment increase of 7.8% okay over the current year but we had a we had a discussion me of taking of taking out basically what we can control and having that increase by only X per. so that's the purpose of this analysis that I right that that's the intent of this that's this that's this slide right right right thank you yeah it's more up to date than it's no that's up to date that one's up to date Chef yeah okay and that
078still says 701 yes yeah yeah it yeah it's it's correct it's just under 702 okay I just can't see it from 7019 got and I couldn't find it in my deck so from yeah this is from okay but let's remember this was this was our take on the two and a half% increase the you know the the towns know there's this large bucket of uncontrollable expenses that it just because it's not controllable doesn't mean that they can afford it either way that's fair y so this was my this was my take on you know incorporating you know their Direction um that we received kind of in in general terms and analyzing the things that we felt were weren't controllable and creating some answering Matt's question right what's the number so to me this was the
079number okay this was my attempt at a number so my reason for asking that is that I said it last week if we have a story surrounding the budget that says listen towns we had an insurmountable number in our budget this year we had non-controllable costs that we can't we can't do anything about they are what they are but we did our best to take our controllable cost and only increase them by x% so what I'm saying as a committee is that if we can agree on that kind of approach that might might be more palatable and it gets us I think that number which is a little over two and a two% I think Jeff just said yeah some of these numbers in these in these scenarios actually meet that formula and Middleton actually
080but they had there's a large number in there I think that if I we took that out um from what I was hearing but if we can sort of approach it that way I I I think that I think we're we're doing a service to our students and our and our school but we're also saying towns we're listening to you so I would like to agree on that or have an approach like that I'll be fast so Melissa this was my this was my attempt to telling the story right exactly what you just talked about right so yeah and I think that that's what we have to start to do and have to agree on what story what the end story we're telling yep Matt only me just point out that I think our select
081board and our fincom consider some of the non-controllable expenses controllable through attrition and through layoffs and some of them are tied to salaries yeah they are so remember Matt if I could just add right so remember our recommendation was level service right so my story which is is reflected here assumes level service right which doesn't Factor those things in uh but I do agree with you right so health and dental benefits are going to go down if we riff five people right Sal go down yeah salaries will go down as right I'm not debating the numbers I'm just pointing out how the fincom the select board look at this yeah and we want their support sorry Trevor thank you guys and I appreciate all of that I I just want to say that you know
082prop 2 and a half doesn't take into account controllable or uncontrollable expenses so we're going to face a real problem here if this can still be part of our story because it is because this is the perfect storm we've been hit with but it still doesn't mean that we can't we can neglect everything else besides these controllable expenses so I just want to make sure we all remember that you know prop two and a half doesn't discriminate against controllable or uncontrollable expenses these other discussions we're having have to be a part of um again that number in the end Jeff thanks I think you know Trevor and I were just synced up we say I was about to say very similar thing I just want to just double check the numbers Jeff so last year's
083budget was about 35.8 million right so two and a half% would be about $900,000 so that is you know still under the uncontrollable cost at that point so we're you know we're at the space of an override regardless is that that somewhat right 358 I'm not following you but um so for Ev every $330,000 increase it's the equivalent of one point right right so we're at 3. $ million increase at this point that's 10 points right so but you know my my math was two and a half% over the last year's budget doesn't cover our uncontrollable costs that's exactly the point to this slide exactly so just I'm just repeating and I I do like the story of Two and a Half per over what we can control but that is not you know it's
084still a sale we still have to rationalize that and get people to understand that and get on board and it goes to Char's point that it's not two and half% overing control it's two and half% net of all costs so whatever we're doing you know it's a negotiation it's a little bit of you know getting enthusiasm for this so um go so going back to what is our number you know I think this $700,000 is the bare minimum I I I personally I don't know if that's going to get us over the Finish Line personally so because so I'll just throw a comment out um box has basically given us a guideline that's 4% right so 4% of last year's budget just about equal to the outof district placement tuition plus special ed Transportation increases
085it's almost exactly that which we have zero control over none so um you know when I I did the calculations and I came up with number slightly different from Jeff's at the 2.5% and it was 823 K which coincidentally is almost right where Middleton's suggestion is at um I myself think that's probably the minimum that I could go to my town with and say hey this is this is what what we could do so you'd ask a question what the number was when we were when we met we estimated our number to be between 800 and 850,000 as a minimum we thought that would we felt that would do well with our fincom and our s board yes um I don't the top fi reps haven't coordinated on a number but when I sat down
086over the last several days and tried to come up with what I thought they would perceive as a good faith effort I also came out around 8 8:50 and I thought they would be Ed with a million though that makes me far too nauseous to be in public um I I did some hard thinking I wrote some things down I do have some questions on some very specific roles that I would love to close the loop on um but I have found my way to about 875 and there's another 300 here that has questions attached to it so none of it is something I want to do I just feel like this is have to do unfortunately so if we can take a minute and maybe clarify those questions that would help me to participate
087more in what we're talking about okay what are your questions for the Middle School librarian role one of the open questions last week was because of their professional status as a librarian we get access to an enormous amount of resources for free if that role is eliminated we lose those resources what was the cost that we would incur if we wanted to secure those you you want to talk about what you found out yeah I mean I I reached out to um fortunately this has happened in other districts um not that we want to see this um but those resources um it's pretty clear really stated on District pages that they're open accessible free uh k to2 um per per the state so there's no um I've spoken to um a principal where this recently
088happened and those are um students still have all those resources at their fingertips and that is no that is um you you I've been told you can't you can't limit that you can't you can't take those away per per per the state law um that those are open accessible K to 12 uh assuming it's all you know Geographic so you're in the state of Massachusetts you've got open and free access so the state provides that to us today or the state could provide it to us tomorrow so you wouldn't get cut off from those resources is what I was told there's no loss have you did you speak to our staff in our building to see what they believe the impact was and where their information well we we started with what our staff communicated
089to us and then I research well a number of us researched that further so that's where we started because as you know the original statement was that we would lose access that we could certainly that I thought it was that we will um so my understanding is it's open accessible remains that way not that I'm advocating for um all this um but I was asked to to do a little bit of deeper so we we feel confident that those Services would remain in place for the middle school students despite they not being a librarian on staff that's what we're hearing hearing okay um and to add on that onto that I guess the Boston Public Library um is an additional layer of access that is afforded to yeah um okay that's helpful thank you um
090so many so no I'm looking through my big long list here to make sure I don't skip anything so I don't have to come back to you with more questions um the Gen Ed power professional it caught my ear that they're also project Adventure certified and we have a course on campus what is the impact if like do we lose the ability to make use B teacher is also a project ADV Venture certified this is just a second that's helpful to know thank you and then the last one that is I everyone's going to love me for this but I feel responsibility to bring it to the table one more time we keep talking about student facing roles we keep talking about big budget numbers that we need to reduce and when I brought up
091the director of teaching and learning role because the community has voiced it so loudly everyone around this table looked at me and just went nope and there was no thoughtful discussion about it at all and I want to get behind it if that's the will of the committee but you guys got to give me more to go on because every single voice that I have heard from especially in the last several days is asking us to look at those roles and I mean we can't get rid of a superintendent right we need Mike we know that we can't get rid of the person that's doing the budget right Jeff has to be in that seat we know we need to make a thoughtful and Strategic investment in our student services because we have such high
092needs and we need to do better for those kids we know we need to do that and we know it's a Strategic investment to avoid further out of District placements we're protecting those roles because we know it's the smart and fiscally responsible thing to do I believe in the director of teaching and learning role I did research last year when it was being considered and I had to vote as a constituent I also did more research this year when Trevor said academic literature Adrian and I said okay fine I'm G to go look and I looked into some really compelling stories but they're all for districts far larger than ours that require enormous amounts of collaboration and coordination we have two schools in one building we don't have K through 12 six schools four schools
093and three schools that all need to be coordinated that's an opportunity for economy and I think we're overlooking it despite the Strategic plan which I'll also go a step further and say the Strategic plan has a lot of phenomenal ideas and it has a great vision for how Masco can keep innovating and keep leading and I believe in that I do and no one wants data more than me I mean I'll go Toe totoe with anybody at this table on the data thing I want so much more data but our strategic plan isn't strategically funded and we're looking at some tough conversations for years ahead of us so I get that we want to invest in this I do I just don't know if we're even setting that R up for Success right now and
094to not put it on the table and have thoughtful discussion so that the community can hear why there is so much emphatic certainty in investing in that role In This Moment is not allowing us to to meet the moment so I would love to hear all of your talking points so they can at least get me what I need to have the conversations in the community and really justify the investment when we're looking at this right now I need help guys and I they're probably coming to me because I'm the loudmouth that on their behalf at this point but like again I'm shaking I'm sweating I'm nauseous I hate all of this especially this but I need to know and I need it to be crystal clear for everyone Andre I'll just share my my
095personal feeling I did not support that position last year um I but I you know I also didn't understand the why and why it was needed I think the unfortunate you know because I looked at the number I looked at you know five teachers versus an administrative role of of course we didn't have a person attached to it it's a lot harder when there's a p attached to it um but before any of that was decided I was not in support of it the whole way um because to let go five teachers for me for one administrative role I I was a hard selling point so I think it was the victim of bad timing last year I think it was been something from what I've heard has been in the works for a long
096time and I understand the why because we need data we need audit's not the right word but you know sort of a go through of everything and find out what's working what can we do better so just that's how I felt last year about it and I I think it's it's unfortunately the victim of just horrible timing I don't know I don't know what I agree we do so I don't know if that made sense or helped or made it worse um couple of things uh just to clarify something the you know let's be be clear the that one role is not the financial equivalent of of five teaching roles um it's just last year we we uh know we added that role uh because as you said we've been considering this for a very
097long time um it's a it's a common role in fact we were the outlier that of a school district that didn't have someone in that role um and I think it's I certainly get it I mean I've been through enough of these budget uh Seasons to know that um it's it's it's always easy um for for the vast majority of frankly the stakeholders who show up at these things are you know the students the parents the uh department heads and so on um that the emphasis is always on student facing positions um but the reality is in any complex organization um you have a certain amount of administrative support that's necessary um and the um the and I I all with all due due respect but the knee-jerk reaction that that the non student facing
098role can't possibly be as important as a student facing role that's simply not true that but I I I don't think it's JK I spent hours hours of my life over the last several days looking into this and being thoughtful and Incredibly con consider it and I'm not saying you're being knee-jerk but I'm saying that the the the reaction whenever this subject has come up for years is uh you know saying how the you know any cuts to a to a student facing position and uh the uh you know the the impact is dire and that and that you know there will be irrep able harm um and you know unfortunately I think will there obviously life won't be the same if there happen to be student facing positions cut whether they be uh Educators
099or adjustment counselors or you know whatever the case may be but you know we still have difficult decisions to make and ensuring that we we bring a budget to our to our towns that can be passed um because the consequences of that not happening are are pretty bad and bigger Cuts would result from that so I think that you know it's you know having since we know we need to come up with some number you know I think a a number of things uh should be on the table um and it's you know completely appropriate that that you this up again and asking for for further clarification but I I personally think that uh this rule it was necessary last year we're basically six seven months into it or eight months I guess we started
100over the summer I think it wouldn't be appropriate to make a change in that at this point um but still we need to come up with was saving Alissa so I had a very lovely student come up to me after the last meeting asked me why I supported students but didn't talk about cutting the dtl and I explained that and and her plea was well I I don't know this person I don't know if I'll ever talk to him and I said well it's not a position that's designed that way that position is for to help your teachers teach um and that was a simple simplistic way that I could describe it but I do want to recognize that there were years a couple years of the Strategic plan group and a director of teaching
101and learning I believe I'm looking for which objective that is but that's that that is part of the implementation of the Strategic plan which the school committee last year supported and this was a way that we could start to get Masco on its way to meeting the objectives and goals of the Strategic plan and I think Bill just said like giving it eight months is not enough time um and if we all believe in the Strategic plan we know how necessary it is and if we all believe in moving Masco forward we know we need data to collect we all have been asking for it we need to see are our students improving and to the to the person who's not involved in it every day they I mean it's another administrative position like they
102say yeah and our teachers have to get used to it our district has to get used to it because it's not something we've ever had but I believe in supporting that because we've talked about it since at least 2019 that I and I think it was 10 years at least yeah um until we started working on getting involved in the Strategic plan I think I didn't really understand the role of it and I think we need to give it time in our district to see how it really works and and how it improves our education that's how I feel about it I support it I don't support cutting it at this point because I think that does a disservice to the work that the Strategic plans I think it the Strategic plan committee did I
103think that it's showing our superintend that maybe we're not supporting his vision for our school and what does that say as a committee um and I don't want to it's a tough budget for me and but again I I did not want to visit that because of all the work that went in to getting it at least 10 years you cut that position it's going to be another 10 years at least I mean we're I'm worried about adding back in $300,000 for next year we're never going to get that position back and I think that would be a disservice to our students to not have that one position that looks globally over our school as to what we're doing and how we're improving and being able to get to lead the data collection so that
104would be my feeling I want add a quick comment and then going to go to Jeff and that's just you we talk about looking ahead to next year but I would say I'd like to look back to last year and think did we see this coming this year and I would say we did not but I would say we we all have a keen awareness that this could clearly happen again next year and for me when it comes to a role like this where it's only been in position for five or six months I don't see the reason to cut it without giving it a chance to work myself but a year from now right is where I'm looking to see that there's actually something happening that makes it worth retaining or not right but
105today the data is not there yet so me it's just a databased decision and um you know this conversation is going to happen again in a year I think just my opinion so uh Jeff thanks no I appreciate the conversation I I just um you from what I've heard today you know I feel like we're all sort of saying we're not OB on the same page but I think a lot of us feel that you know we're starting honing on a number and that number is north of 800k for for cuts so I just hoping maybe we could make a proposal to to table the scenarios that are under that threshold so that'd be the administration you know level service recomend recommendation versus and alternative one and two just take those off the table at
106this point just so we can kind of narrow the focus of having too many scenarios to to digest and litigate so uh Adrian you had said that you had a 875k number do you want to share what that was or is well or is it it's you don't have to if um I think there's overlap with some of the scenarios and I think first I just want to say thank you for everyone that offered commentary I literally took notes because I think it matters and being able to have these conversations is important I agree that cutting that role prematurely since it's already been invested in is detrimental right we owe it to Kevin to give him a chance he's thrilled about this position he's been working really hard since he got here we should give
107him the opportunity to see it through I also agree with Joe if we are sitting at this budget table again next year and we are not armed to the teeth with data about where we we need to invest and where we don't it's going to be really hard to make a justification again and I think that that also comes down to you Dr Harvey as the leader and the Visionary for this District to help Kevin get there and make sure he has what he needs and set him up for Success because right now we're gonna make his job really hard this nothing that we cut is going to make his life easier so I just want to put that out there as well um I hear Jeff's comment about like just scrap anything that's below
108that threshold but I don't know looking at some of these it might be easier to like build Goodwill from the bottom up rather than be topping things from the top down I don't know that's my two cents on it I just know we have five proposals on the table and that's a lot to digest so there I think we we have a lot that are just support internally so if we can kind vote on those and start fresh with the something that is other than the Middleton folks does anybody have a scenario that they're like ready to put their name on because I don't I have all these I have one which is if we were to take the alternative number three eliminate I'm Joe when you say eliminate you mean take off take off
109the list or modify change the curricular fee to 12 and a half% set of 25% eight combining the department head of English and social studies eliminate the um there's one other on here where is it oh the assistant principal position I think the rest of it I could support what was the second one Joe assistant principal position and combining the uh English and social studies was there a teacher on here somewhere that uh I don't think so we didn't add a teacher on there there was at the top no that's the one we' all agreed upon someone was was making an argument about adding an additional teacher at the end of the last meeting we not doing it that's what I sorry in place of a department yeah yeah so you limit all that you
110get 875 I there's something so no oh combine sorry combining the assistant director and the IEP chair not doing that either I'm so four things the 170 the 116 the 121 495 and then changing the uh deduction from 20 or the fees from 25% to 12.5 I think that comes out at about 875 it's why I was asking you what your number was because I think it's it's a similar kind of thing my number my number just dropped as I know repeat which ones you eliminated again system principal y the uh combining the department head English and social studies department heads and the student services administrator combination the next one after that you said something else to you though curricular curricular half% at 25 that was the other question I had is the that getat
111you to 875 okay is the 12.5% more of a true correction for like the the stien increases and everything je Jeff's 10% number was essentially that I think the 12 and a half looks ahead to next year's increase as well okay so the the 10% was intended to cover the increase um FY 23 24 25 and 26 so the equivalent of the cola increases for the stipended positions roughly 10% so this was trying what I was trying to say earlier not so eloquently apparently the difference between this and the Middleton suggestion is they have the assistant principal on there and I have student adjustment counselor and the secure maybe it's the [Music] mpft you don't have yeah it's right in the metal mat so Joe I think what you just listed adds up to 477
112so reduction no 477 off of 1352 yes yeah 875 875 is what it com out to 875 that includes the nurse where the Middleton proposal didn't Lisa I um we also did not have the mpft on there because that's correct um I guess Matt would be better to explain it than I would yeah I mean I I don't know how we I mean we're seeing a crumbling building to begin with yeah right all hands on deck Jeff and his team what they need to keep this building standing is there any information about the mpft because I was I I felt very strongly about that last week um but I wanted to ask as uh Adrian was doing some specific questions about the mpfts specific roles and if we were to reduce it by one I
113think that's what 10 or 20% of the staff does it change the delivery of services we're providing to the school to the community I'm under the impression that they're not actually working on the things I thought they were like preserving um uh you know uh some of the things that are deteriorating that I'm worried about in next year's Capital plan Jeff is there any additional information on the like what would it look like um if we reduced an mpft so that it would be a reduction of 20% of the of the staff right um we keep the buildings open a little over 100 hours a week and there's always an mpft on staff um during the during the week uh from 6:00 AM to 10 pm and then uh oftentimes uh both days on the
114weekends um upwards of 12 hours a day um supporting uh Community Access through facilities use um during the work week Chris they you know principally you know they're instrumental in getting our athletic fields um ready to go so mowing 20 acres of of fields lining Fields um they play an instrumental role in the winter um getting the campus um ready and safe for faculty and staff uh this winter was extremely hard um and then uh they you know they do routine um they do rout routine Plumbing work they do routine electrical work um they'll do they'll do painting um they don't they don't do specialized work they don't do boiler work they not do HVAC work they not do preventative maintenance work on any of the things that we're talking about in our Capital plan
115that's not what they do um but they do play a very instrumental role in the day-to-day option oper ation of of the district so my follow-up question is is it the school committee's responsibility to fund functions that support Community use of the Masco building well you do have a facilities use uh set of guidelines that oftentimes doesn't charge folks from the communities uh a fee to use our facilities so I would say yeah it it it it does Kendra maybe there's your Revenue stream you're licking for know desate to find revenue for this place if I if if this budget is paying to keep the building open and supported on the weekends for other community uses and we're not charging fees for that we have there's a problem okay Jeff that's outlining school committee policy
116right now Chris so school committee would have to change that policy yeah I I I simply follow the guidelines that the committee established years ago right yeah Crystal really good idea I I do like the idea of revisioning that policy maybe next next year as soon as possible um but I I just had more one question on the um this role is is are these hourly are these Sal uh they are hourly covered by a union okay so if there if we lose a head count you could eat that back with overtime or extra hours in theory say that a different way if we cut this the the RO that work still needs to get done so the staff that's existing might be charging more hours more overtime maybe I mean this is all maybe
117I mean there's a break breaking point right so you're open 100 hours a week right so four four four guys can only do so much yeah so I guess my point is it yeah if we cut a position it's going to impact the availability of the facility yeah in a significant way I have my choice thing is if cutting the RO might not be a one for one savings you probably lose some of that savings to overtime and extra hours well it depends how I manage it so yeah um yeah but you know look at these two scenarios you I I would like to stay closer to 875 900 I think that rolls in here unfortunately but I do see the value of it because it sounds like you know Joe's proposal and the middle
118proposal or basically 50 Grand difference right the roles are slightly different but we're close yeah a clarification did Jeff say that people don't pay to use the facilities yes Community Based groups do not or there's a there's a sliding scale the way there's definitely a sliding scale yeah there a the majority of people do not pay Melissa the majority don't so like are we not charging youth basketball to use the we charge the people that were allowed to charge given the the guidance we follow the guidance it doesn't generate very much no but it generates it usually covering at least the janitorial hourly rates right because that's what it was designed to do back in 2019 well certainly time to look at it again there's no question about it was a lot of a lot
119of thought went into it back then and what was driving it was viewing Masco as a Community Asset then for rationale was that the community was already paying their taxes um and the original the of of the renovation and construction that the community had already paid for the asset and that's why um we came up with I think four different groups of of of of users uh and depending on their um where they fell the the uh like Masco groups obviously there was no charge um I think for groups that were in the community I think it was there definitely was a charge it might not but it's a 90% discount okay so it certainly you know if it if it's not working then let's like pound wck 90% discount on the so if we
120take the mpft out we add in the 10K for the parking fee modification we're at 833 on that proposal but this is again this is not the assistant principle it's the other roles you guys presented I um I won't speak for my Middleton colleagues but we did have some discussions and um I I would support that I think so I would support that I think the two two Untouchables for us were the npft position and the student services administrator okay GL you took that off that list I tell the Untouchables that I've heard about are the combining the assistant director and the IEP chair which is I think is sort of the same thing you said and uh any any primary math reading or math English or social studies teachers or combining the Departments those
121are non-starters okay so yep Lisa um just curious um couple of people through out their combining different smaller departments what departments are the smaller departments well there's I know it's farming arts and Fine Arts that's not no it was business and those are the two smallest departments was what those are the two small departments the Performing Arts and really absolutely and then business small too business and mouth discussed and what's for forming Arts what same right yeah they're the same yeah I think the thing with with combining business and math is that the we already have a cut here on the on the uh business department already so if you combine them then you lose that so you're not gaining much in the aggregate go ahead Kendra I was half thinking but I for for
122me for me the nurse and the adjustment counselor like I again I know every every position is valued but that's that's my only reasoning for going for the assistant principal I know it's not on the table but because it wasn't somebody that we were taking out and we're a nurse and the adjustment counsel are both serious positions for me in the health area of our kids Mental Health Medical Health excuse me I I have a hard time with one let alone both together so for me I I don't feel comfortable with that I mean that that's my only reasoning for going for the attrition positions because it's it's similar to a not a retirement but it's it's moving one position somewhere else it's not I know it's still taking away but it's not leaving somebody's
123position that I think I don't know for me nurse and adjustment counselor I mean both I can't do both absolutely not and they're both so important I mean everything's important but that's me they're both in the same area for me of health so I I feel like that's a huge gouge I'm I'm on the same page I think going for the attrition position and retaining those critical roles of nurse and adustment counselor are important um sorry I just want to throw out we're with the reducing the nurse how many nurses would we still have four four we still have four two in each school no two nurses two nurses and two nurse assistance Bill all right thank you all right and with the reduction of the one adjustment Council that it takes us from seven
124to six yeah correct oh I'm sorry Le oh that's fine he staring at me and you get want to talk to me that's do it think it was done sorry um Le is finished for me well what if we put the math teacher back in because isn't that that's ation right that's ation that's a retirement that's a retirement that's a non-starter for uh Boxford it's four people so so something came up last meeting I there's a lot of swirling we're all sick over this but I think we talked about you know is there an opportunity to keep the high school math teacher in play but is there maybe a role in the middle school that would impact things like geolab and and those other sort of they're not neily elective but they're not part of
125the Core Curriculum is there a one partial Ro something that impacts those courses and less of the core classes I don't think we ever F to that conversation but do do you there I mean that would be a major programming change every single seventh grader takes those classes well agreed but I also think that you know we we allow our seventh graders to test into an advanced math program and maybe those kids don't have to sit in the dob classes and that gives you some economy to work with I don't know I think we're looking at does creative create the three kids three groups of students coming in from different schools different districts yep literally and we're trying to put them all on an even footing and so that's what the extra it's basically an
126extra 30 days of math instruction for every student and an extra 30 days of English instruction for every student yes to get them all on sort of an even ke that thing that we do there it's what it's really the one thing that we do there where we actually are giving double dosing really is what it what it's known as and and do I mean do we as a district feel like that is incredibly necessary for every single kid in seventh and eth grade well the English position was put in last year and the committee voted to to put it in and math the geolab position we've had for many years and with it um Plus you know like I said every single student takes those classes a placeholder in this in the schedule for
127those kids if you were to take them out of one of those yeah I mean I I get all this I get we're I'm just trying to get everything on the table as much as possible I'm just saying though it's a position that we didn't add a position yeah I didn't think so department just want to make us clear that we had allocated we add the we added the course but we got at the course yeah yeah sorry I get that we didn't add an English teacher the actually reduce our staff by one okay that's helpful to know what's that said that's helpful to know all right Melissa we seem to be working towards a number is that correct and what is that number because well we're seem to be working our way towards around
1288:25 to 8:30ish in there ballpark yep Matt go back to the for a second because I was against having a nurse on this list [Music] and the assist the the assistant nurses are RNs right don't they have different hours and different roles in the offices well in the high school we have a third who's part-time so that may be what otherwise they're here all school day and then Middle School school day right yes but the but they don't they start at different times is that um not the nurse assistant I mean it's it's not on the teachers contract like the the primary nurse in each building is their hours might differ by several minutes the par professional contract Nur nurse assistants areen power no no it's Melissa it's a it's a full school day position
129190 days a year for both the nurse and the assistant no Oh I thought we were talking about the nurse assistance no we're talking about the assistance yeah that's that's what I just said then oh yeah so right now so both positions one in the high school one in the Middle School it's full school day 190 days a year right um the nurse assistant in the middle school is full-time the currently the nurse the assistant nurse in the high school is not full-time however ever it's a full-time position in the budget the nurses are in the teachers contract right right there's two there's two nurses in the high school and one nurse in the middle school so there's five staff in both nurse's office and they're all full-time positions in the budget wait are you
130saying Chris they're fulltime in the budget but one of them isn't is holding a part-time position correct so can we reduce that one to part-time oh it's s doesn't so confusing and hard right you're asking 76k in the budget can we reduce set to 38 okay no she's asking about a different position Matt she's talking about the nurse assistant position not the nurse position that's a that's the nurse excuse me excuse me 93 the nurse assistant not listed get paid hourly what does the nurse assistant get paid Jeff $26 an hour what's it in our budget for right how many hours is it in our budget full time do do seven times hold on one second only6 time 7 time one night I know much 30 call a 35 Grand Plus benefits if there's any
131the 40 oh no benefits benefits can run 30 thats are another 30 benefits can run as high as 30 plan yet the family Po and the family dental together is close to 30 if we eliminated the part-time assistant position instead that would take knock off 60k Jeff instead of 35 55 35 35 sary you just say another 30k benefit am I wrong I don't know if that person Tak benefit we don't know if that person's taking the benefits right can we just say that there that what a full-time nurse would get paid nurse that's a full-time nurse gets paid on the teachers no the first time Nur so what we heard was that we we have a nursing assistant who is only part-time but it's in our budget for a full-time position that's correct 35,000
132so the full-time position is 35,000 correct okay that's where we were plus any benefits I don't know if that person takes benefits so we have to call it 35,000 here I have another question Adrien go ahead so all of these dollars that are attached to these light items are salaries full stop theoretically with some of these roles there will be additional reductions connected to benefits that are no longer being no these numbers all of those costs are included Adrian these numbers are yeah a net thank you so I have the salary I have any benefit savings based on who the person I identified in the schedule offset by unemployment costs my question was um so if we said eliminate the assistant nurse position that's part-time instead of the full-time nurse Jeff yep we can say
133it's 35k conservatively yes sir inad of ring3 793 that work for you as you know say that again sorry is is eliminating a school adjustment counselor plus a part-time nurse okay assistant assistant part part time whatever she is or not parttime in the budget fulltime budget it's a reduce a 1.0 FTE nurse assistant at 35,000 are any of the nurses retiring soon that we know of what no not that we know we don't speculate on that make a deal I'm just saying you didn't want to cut someone and then find out next year the other person was going to retire like six months later right and you look like you have something no I just I I don't know I'm just I'm having a hard time going for the health area I I know I
134know I know we have to make a decision but I just I just feel so much stronger with the attrition positions than than that because I I just know it's mental health it's I don't know Mental Health Medical Health we're not saying eliminate that part-time you're saying eliminate the part-time and on top instead of the full-time instead of instead of the full-time nurse I mean I know it's not much I would be okay with eliminating the part-time but not and the adjustment counselor as well but regardless we still have one less body in a nursing office that's first goes back to my that's where I have an issue Mike how do we know when we're right sized in the Nerf sing office I mean like I'll say the same thing I said last year right
135we were talking about classroom sizes I didn't know what good looked like I knew that the trajectory that we were heading in was not the trajectory we wanted to go in but was 19 just less good than 18 last year in terms of class sizes and I'm guess I'm just wondering like when we talk about these things how do we know we're right sized with the nurse's office I mean there's you know there's the Department of Public Health number which we've talked about um I mean I kind of defer to Katie too to talk about what you seeing in that office is the question I mean some days you can walk in there it's empty and other days there's a line around the door and she I can tell you yesterday they didn't go to
136the bathroom until about one o'clock because they just had a revolving door all day yesterday they was a little bit quiet um so I guess what I'm afraid of is that we're talking about attrition positions and if a nurse just happen to be retiring this year which unfortunately she's not if a nurse just happened to be retiring this year would we be going after that position because it's detrition but it's still like is that what's best for the students and what's safe for the students or should we be backfilling that I think just going after attrition for the sake of attrition is a little dangerous izing the best we can across the board I think you look at attrition as an opportunity that makes sense you do it but if it doesn't you don't do
137it and then the attrition part of it doesn't really matter anymore and where you don't have attrition if there's this opportunity to rightsize something yeah exactly yeah Lisa can I respectfully ask the Boxford committee why the math teacher that is retiring is is off the table because that would be the it's not it's not the math teacher retiring it's eliminating a math position in a high school that's that we do not agree with CHR Chris um so I'm thinking through what I kind of was suggesting that maybe the part-time person who's not filling a full-time role was an opportunity but I'm realizing it's not since it's a $35,000 number that's fulfilling nursing needs but I so I kind of want to retract the comment I was leaning into there before um that $93,600 number is
138a much bigger impact to our budget I was hearing in one of our original meetings I forget which date now though that the the data when we also overlay the um at risk youth I forget that acronym that the tri toown Council uses the the data that we were presented on how our students are doing which we held off making decisions last year waiting to see what that fall presentation looked like um and we looked at the uh you know we had discussions about what visits to the nurse's offices looked like I I am in complete agreement with a lot of the sentiments about thinking about mental health and student services and being appropriately prepared for crises but I am under the impression that based on the data and what we're hearing and where our
139students are currently that we can afford to lose that one FTE high school nurse position I think we should put that back in Alissa throwing this out there so if we keep the Nur and the uh the high school adjustment or an adjustment counselor and we increase our athletic fees back up to 20% and add the parking fee increase the number I have is is but I think I captured everything we've been discussing and I'm just throwing it out there because if we're trying think we need to have I think that has Al a lot of students are going to be impacted by parking increases but co-curriculars I mean if we're saving if we're helping students in other areas in Seal areas and we have to pay a little bit more in athletic fees like
140maybe that's just our a way to get another position into our budget it's not popular I recognize that our voters may not like it or sub section of our voters but I I think we have to look at that and what they go to what did you say go to 20 go to 20 it's 100 I I would rather go restore to 175 because I think it gives them us the most impact and I don't think the fees would be that much different 25 and if they're gonna if costs are increasing next year too we're ahead of the game a little bit it's not popular but I think we have to look at it okay Jeff thanks I appreciate non-popular ideas I I throw a lot of them out there but um I just I
141you know I think there's not a huge appetite might you know Revolt to I think we're pushing the athletic fees as as as far as we can for this year for maybe next year revisit it and tag it to something else but I don't know if that's gonna Gonna Fly with the towns and I also don't think that you know anything under eight is really going to be compelling you I want to make sure that yeah I want to minimize the risk of a failure no ride as much as possible so I think um yeah for me until we're deep in the eights I'm not sure if we're uh we're doing our job it gets us to 750 yeah what's included on that list I think I C everything High School busing business teaching position
142the high school support staff defer fraud for Student Activity accounts math resources Middle School librarian General edara mpfd Security discretionary spending World Language head and parking um plus the increase in athletic fees um I'm still not that comfortable about the word language head um because I don't I fear the impact and the inability to bring it back in twice but it gets me to a number that's it gets me to a more comfortable place we're not losing nurses and counselors like the the you would have proposed level next year the World Language head would be included in that right if we were to not fund a full year I first I don't think it is no I wouldn't Matt it you would or wouldn't would not would not yeah you wouldn't call that level service
143no I wouldn't because level service would only be 0.2 FTE or something like that yeah it be like a 0 four or whatever it is yeah Tech technicality really I mean does it really well it's $120,000 technicality though right I understand that but well that's what we're talking about here so good so I just I want to try and lay this out to make sure that I understand it the World Language department head is also a point4 French teacher no is also a point4 something teacher yeah okay in the languages yes okay so October 1st she retires there's no one serving that department head role her classes are you would lose so one of the classes is the uh elll coordinator so we'd have to reassign that those duties and then there's one teaching section
144so that we would lose one section okay language and then those kids who were in her class we just wouldn't to sign a class from the start of the Year okay so effectively we're losing a section in World Language and there's impact to the elll students it would have we would have to reassign the coordinator is actually outlined in the contract administrator's contract is being a02 assignment so one okay so and so we still have to find somebody to do do the coordination yeah we have someone with a proper licensure is that a license really is a license necessarily for that one to find license to teach it not to coordinate yeah not to coordinate it we're not talking about the aspect of it so then theoretically level service next year's budget would not include
145those sections and an allocation for that coordination and that section one section and then the apption duties that's that's right the coordination duties I'm sorry so again we're putting sorry we're putting that Global diploma and SE by literacy in Risk yes I mean that would that's those are different those are outside of the elll roles that we're talking about so why would they be at risk or are they again we'd have to find somebody find the right person to make sure those things would happen but it's adding to somebody else's plate and if if we would continue to do it which I think there's a commitment to do that just how how much can you fill the bucket um generally speaking in the core classes say World Language is probably the smallest Department out of
146like English History math science wise I think it's about wise is the same as everybody else really 14.2 so it's three fewer and the larger like she also has two sections of Spanish this year yeah one's an overload isn't okay I just I I really struggle with this one because it's a small department and it's a really big differentiator for masks at a time when we need all of those differentiators you know I think the global diploma and the sale biliteracy are really cool programs and a lot of the kids take advantage of it if if we impact those and we is there a way to make that a part-time position those programs alive those programs funded this next year like a stien roller yeah either a stip en roll or consultant rooll or does
147I retiree want to yeah hobby mean I would look to the administration for Creative hobby I guess it could be a STP IND I mean that's again we would that's why we were be one of the options to figure out that would be more like a long-term sub roll Mike and there's yeah that's that that's defined in the contract so the you know probably the least amount you'd pay a day it' be $350 or $400 a day for coverage definitely not a stien from the day we'd have to bargain that right Melissa is $50,000 the most the most amount of discretionary spending we can find yeah there's nothing Melissa I mean this thing is stripped down so um I'm gonna change my proposal and I think we actually have to keep the World Language head
148in the budget and I think that's going to lead us to have to make some hard decisions get cutting a nurse but I don't like that I just said that because it also makes me nauseous and want to throw up and sour candy help you want some I'm on over because that does mean that we have two bodies in each office it it doesn't seem like enough to me um just because I heard that we may not have blue shots next year so who knows what are and I would hate to make a um I would hate to make a decision like we made in 2020 that comes back to fond us um but I heard that there's there may not be approval for flu shots year and I don't know what that's going to
149mean for public health um so I my number's now at 760 and I would like it to be close to eight but I don't know in my in a budget I can support that I could get there that's why I asked if there was any wiggle room um and that's increasing the athletic fees to 137 to 25% restoring also is something I don't like to say out that I think we're sliding a long way back away from where we really need to be we were we're about storm and Norm storm and Norm this is so I'm going to throw something out there and that is the proposal that Middleton put on the table to begin the meeting has some things in it that I don't think we need it's got some things not in it
150that I think we could get away with not having um we can go around forever tonight but I guess like the question I would ask is are there eight people that would support that straw pole that would support Middleton as Middleton the initial Middleton proposal for 831k 823 sorry 23 plus 10 833 right 10's not on there what's the 10 parking parking ah right right right Jeff was Raising as was Raising let's just take a straw vote and go go around the the committee on it so Lisa no I right now no I know that's what we talked about I had a hesitation about the foreign language when we talked about it in the beginning too so right I'm a no for the same reason World Language head Bill yes Matt yes Melissa no Andra
151yes Trevor yes I think it's I mean I had to compromise to get to this list but I think this process is about compromising and we all have to compromise in some respect Jeff um it's close but I me know I have a real issue with the the assistant principal I've been kind of swayed on that one but it's close I feel the same about the assistant principal I would be a no okay okay Joe can I make an alternate proposal go ahead Matt if we scratch the assistant principal off this put the nurse and increase the sports fees I'd be a yes what are we increasing the sports feed to 25% back to 25 is that you're saying to 25 whatever it was originally suggested it it was 25 137 137 100 increasing the
152sports fees to 20% I would have a really hard time to getting behind I think I compromised to get to 12.5 I think if we elim ated the assistant principal off the list and put on the adjustment counselor instead it would get us close to there Trevor that's so Joe that's that's the proposal you proposed right what Trevor saying okay pretty much Adrian um what if we and Trevor this is you know I'm looking to you to think with me on this what if we increased those athletic fees but made a commitment to immediate dig in on a better fee structure that was more Equitable so that parents who have hockey kids aren't seeing an enormous increase on an already high expense and then the other folks who have maybe a lower fee are only
153seeing a marginal increase maybe there's a more Equitable way to approach it so that everyone pays sort of a similar Baseline fee for First Sport and then less for second less for third and have more of a tiered structure and we examine that as an option to help I I don't see this as just a hockey issue I see it as an all sports issue and all activities issue I think I I mean we can make that commitment today but the committee is going to be different come May 17th so that commitment really doesn't mean anything so we can say it today sure it sounds great but right at the end of the day it doesn't mean anything I think reason people would welcome the opportunity to revisit and think of something that might better
154serve but just trying to put all ideas on the table Trevor what's what's your upper limit on that Trevor you have an upper limit 12.5 I was really stretching and I could support 12.5 but that's a stretch for me is 15 not enough to move it either way is that it gets us like what to 70ish yeah I think once you start pushing on that past 12 and a half you really risk you know inflaming the voters you know we have to yeah I I think it's just we want the town you know that's a big you know contingency of the towns in general if they really start to push on that that could put we might get the selectcom and the fincom on board but getting the the towns Folk to support that might
155be a real Challenge and I don't know if 12 and a half to 15% really moves the needle anyways what was the take off the assistant principal and what was the other so what if it stayed at 12.5 take away the assistant principal what was the other nurse put the nurse back we honest with you I'd rather see U myself if I had to choose between the nurse and the adjustment counselor I would choose the nurse I think myself but that's the choice you had talked about two positions right this the part-time or is this the full-time part time well they're all full-time I mean the know what I mean the 90s nurse kind of nurse nurse oh it's it's the full-time one you have any wisdom well just obviously I've got the options we're
156considering swirling around in my head so I'm trying not to have too big of a headache as I'm trying to come to some conclusions here um so did I correctly hear you say that or I guess throw out the option of taking off or or keeping the assistant principal position taking that off from mat okay yes keeping it taking off the list yeah picking what off or adding what to to the list the nurse the nurse and but not anything with the adjustment counselors right what does that get us to like 740 740 okay well one thing that mind is plus 10 750 I've was looking at the presentation that um Chay from our that our fincom uh brought to us a couple of weeks ago now um representing the opinion of the or the
157perspective of the the finc coms of of the three towns and you know the point that they've made over and over and over [Music] um that the student population has steadily increased at staffing has not gone down a similar amount andas I think we make a distinction that there has been a decrease in in in Educators um what has gone up has been the special education uh staff that we need to have you know we really don't have much much choice in [Music] um but I'm mindful that that even though we have sought to clarify that with the thinc coms and and get them to change their tune that uh that Staffing isn't bloated here um for whatever reason that has fallen on deaf ears um so I I I know that barring any sign
158any significant changes in um to to our educ educator staff then I mean I think it's really going to require like I think somewhere north of 800k in order to convince them that um you know we're taking this seriously and that you know they should support us so not enough the uh summary um Adrian so I know that the assistant principal role has been called out as a a non-starter for Boxford right I think uh Chris and and Jeff feels that feel that way okay I I mean I can see my way to that only because we have Frontline responders in nurses and adjustment counselors and guidance counselors and the security staff and and you know and the Educators they're part of a a broader team too um I don't know maybe I'm biased because
159I grew up in districts where there were a lot more kids and one assistant principal one principal you know they might have had a couple of extra Hall monitors that's because there was violence in the hallways but you know I lived I was okay not ideal certainly and I would obviously look for an opportunity to put that Ro back at some point but thinking about what we need right we've got five people dedicated to health the nurses they're there they're available something happens there's security staff three of them there's are amazing adjustment counselors that are fighting so hard to keep in place knowing that they're also going to help with student services and everything else we get some economy there and we're not eliminating assistant principal in high school we're just bringing it down to
160I don't know if I'm making a convincing argument but it's a big line item and it lets us keep some smaller line items that we also feel really strongly about I'd be willing to put it in and I think it helps us Jeff yeah Jeff thanks you know and sort of you on Adrian's camp on the the assistant principal to start but you know just seeing the principal's F and saying it's untenable for them to without that role really makes we have to trust the people we have doing the job and they keeply saying that that role is critical and losing that will be harmful to the schools so I'm not an educator but you know I do kind of you know trust people that are doing the job on the front lines and that's
161really what convinced me to that's a you for me I'm not I can't move on that one personally um that's kind of where I'm and you I know that this is a more contentious one but you know that sa I still have a hard time justifying that when I talk to people outside the school committee you I remember we had this discussion last year and two of these were added for covid and you know losing those two roles would go back to steady state just two years ago where we see me doing a pretty good job and when talk about this you know the question I always get asked is you know what are your metrics why is you know how do we judge what's the right number and it's a very hard call right
162I but I just don't think we have justification at this point I think that's a role that really you know last year was I think we're on the the border of keeping or losing those until the end and I think that's just a spot where we can explore and you know if it turns out it's needed we add it back but I think you know getting to the numbers I think you know under 800 is not feasible it's not tenable we really are at risk and you know just adding that you know that nurse and the adjustment counts are kind of you know just pure math that's the number for the AP and that keeps it you know relatively steady state of where we feel like we need to be um you know like I
163always say these are all hard decisions don't wants to be going this direction but to me that's the only really way to to get to the numbers we need to get to thanks I'm going to call in you a second but but he's on something that triggers something for me and I just want to bring this up and that is it's unfortunate that we're being asked to make this decision because to me we've got a target number right we've seen a number of scenarios we haven't seen a ranking of this is better than this and this is better than this across the whole school which would be great um I mean do we have an agreed upon list and then say and we want you guys to pick the next 150k and come back with
164what your recommendation is period whether it's the assistant principal or it's a combination of a nurse adjustment counselor and uh maintenance person a security whatever right do we is that something that's an option for us to uh to do need to happen this needs to happen tonight got finish this tonight I understand but what I'm saying is that if we said whatever 150k you guys picked we would agree to our budget you guys really want to micromanage this okay it's fine it's the school committee budget School Comm giving you the budget giving you the number we're giving you the number we're not no it's by that's the difference I agreee with Joe I mean you know I go back to just the corporate world yeah yeah goes back you trust people in charge you know
165I think the administration here knows the school better than any of us on the school committee right we're all amateurs at best um you know going to my corporate days my CEO does not go to the the board say we cut what should I do to cut the budget they come with a proposal and the board has to say yes or no but it should be a fully informed one by the people who are in the weeds it puts a lot of pressure on the administration unfortunately but you know that that is part of the role of being an executive right service budget is say well yeah but we decid you know I think everybody in this room agrees that a level Source budget is not gonna apply right Adrian I was just gonna say
166the people who are in the weeds every day told us level service right which is why we're in this situation tossing around a hot potato like this is this is the position that we are in right school we can say a level service is not acceptable I mean I think you know I passed a vote right now we could vote on that one pretty clearly right let's just's pretend we were overseeing a hospital right and none of us are doctors do we really want to decide which specialist to get rid of I mean it's way I look at it no but ultimately what what would happen is the administration would say our recommendation is level service but we understand that in this current situation that is not acceptable and so here's a scenario that we've
167worked carefully with our teams on that we think could get you guys started for something that's really good faith effort that we can all get behind as a team and support knowing that we're going to Rally around it and you know make up the difference and you know all that stuff and instead it was just but but isn't that what is isn't that what we did last year and I would know when the sit I'm not I'm not asking you specifically uh but we made a made a recommendation uh with under a very different set of circumstances and the school committee um you know managed the recommendation and made several decisions that went against the leadership teams Rec recommendation so like you can't have your cake and eat a two guys right so you know
168do do you want that process or do you want this process if I can jump in I want process Jeff I want we're doing this without a lot of input from the administration you said level service and that's all and that's you know and we been grasing STW trying to figure out how to work something else out so no I understand that Jeff but we also took what we learned from the process last year and we made a recommendation to you guys right which you didn't accept and now here here we are trying to work through it together right so do you want us to follow the process we follow last year or do you want us to follow something entirely different this year because the circumstances are different it's unclear to us I can
169just say you know this is my my interpretation is that you know Joe made you know we have r% there right and we're fighting over the last piece and I think Joe and I think where I on this as well is that you know based on these options which way would you go not that we're going to absolutely guarantee to accept what you say but we want your opinions on this as as the experts in the space do you because we gave them to you last year and you didn't follow them so I guess I'm I'm just pushing back Jeff I know it feels a little pass aggressive saying you know you made me feel bad last year so I'm not gonna help you this year that's how I'm no that that's not what I'm
170saying at all right let's move can I add something to the go ahead um I mean I I think it's a it's an interesting idea but I think it's frankly too late in the process um I think if if we have some core set of things that would make up this deficit and we were to task them to come back with uh uh something to add to it um I don't think there's any guarantee that that would be supported by enough of the committee to be worth the effort um you know I think that this is this is unpleasant and hard work but I we cannot Escape it this is what we signed up for and if it didn't sign up for this then you don't need to be on the school committee so let's
171just do it Matt I might say what you're you were trying to say a little earlier slightly differently right I do think I agree with Melissa it's job to set and establish the budget and all the line items in the budget with the administration's help but maybe differently said and sorry to put you on the spot Mike oh thanks we're about to make a decision here and we might get it right and we might it it might get some of it wrong and so do you have any advice for us as we try to work the try to work through the last few line items here you see the target we're going after you have any advice on how we get there as the CEO CEO of this company I think we've kind of laid
172out for you all of the consequence you know potential consequences of all of these I don't there's any good decisions on this that's why we came out with level service in the first place with that I understand the you know we don't like these but this list did come from the team that's where this kind of these options have all come up I mean I think I know you guys are wrestling with the choices here whichever one you do there's going to be an impact impact on the organization there will be no matter what I think that's how we you know frame you know the team framed this presentations to you you're gonna like the impact equally no matter what we you're gonna I'm not gonna like the impact equ no matter what we choose
173I'm not going to like them equally no matter what you choose and and we're going to make them work I mean unfortunately that's what we do but that's a slightly different question you're G to and I I miss both the first but you're going to dislike them equally no matter what we choose it's there's always something you know that that is as I said there's going to be an impact yeah it's you know and some of these changes that you're contemplating we're contemplating are structural yep you know so those are big um but that's that's where we're at um should I extract from that stay away from structural things that can have structural I would try to but I again it's just I don't know how you do that and not and get to the
174number that you want what is the number we want here in eight something right 825 B park again the Middleton proposal 831 823 plus 10 833 823 that doesn't include the 10 Lisa I just so I asked Brad to get me numbers for IEPs and 504s for next year for actually the next couple years coming up because that would affect specifically the soci the student services administrator that I didn't want to cut but it also will affect the coun the social I'm sorry thank you I'm tired it's okay the adjustment counselor so next year so graduating this year you've got 37 IEPs and 35 504s next year coming in you're going to have 59 IEPs and for Two Towns 35 504s so you have a plus differential of 22 kids at least because again one
175of the towns did not provide the numbers for the 504s for fifth grade the 11th grade right now has 40 IEPs and 38 504s fifth grade has 61 IEPs and 31 504s fourth grade 63 IEPs 32 504s and 10th grade right now has 34 IEPs and 40 so that is a plus of hold on I can't do my math 72 kids that are coming in in the next three years I just want to throw it out there when you're looking at the social adjustment counselor that's 72 kids that we need to look out for you're making an assumption that nothing's changing year to year though and there could be changes no and it might not you really need to look backwards and see how many were coming in last year and then the year before
176right it's we don't have the data unfortunately no no we don't but as of right now we have a plus 22 differential at least so I appreciate that we I think we need to start focusing on what are the things we are putting on the table we continue to work backwards and take things off the table and it's going in the wrong direction I appreciate what Adrien did whether we agree or not on the principle right at least try to figure out what's going on the table like what's what's the counter to that if we're trying to hit this number if we take that off what are we adding in it got to be zero some to 825 Adrian so if I look at the Middleton proposal I had a lot of overlap in there
177I think the one area of contention for me is head I'm pretty sure I'll die on that hill so there's that but if we take that out the parking's in there that's just over 700k and if we are all collectively coalescing around 800 to eight something is low eight I guess that means we're about 100K off of a Mark if everyone could get on board with that and then it starts to be a little bit easier to zero in on like what are we willing to get on board with that gets us another 100K and we feel like that's a good faith effort and we can go home and cry into our po toight although that does have the assistant principle in it I believe yeah and I know that that was a non-starter for
178some folks but if you take the assistant principal out and you leave the World Language head nurse and adjustment counselor it's 8:33 I didn't have the nurse or the adjustment 740 I'm looking at the the original Trevor I think that scenario Matt played out would be you said it was 833 mat take away the so if you take out the assistant principal you put the World Language head the nurse and the adjustment counselor it's 8:33 I I think that's maybe where we should be having our discussion with that it seems like the assistant principal's not a starter for some people so I think maybe that's the area where we should look at a list with those positions um and kind of hash that out because I don't think we're going to get eight votes with
179the assistant principal also a nonstarter for folks I think we might get there yeah I think there are for that sorry I jump um what Trevor and Matt just said is that Joe is that your proposal unchanged or is that yeah that's pretty much my can we read that again exactly what's in it yeah the whole list yes okay I think I Joe have them both lined up next to each other that helps or hurts so what's in the list is and I reorganize these because I think the top ones are everyone's on the same page defer fart assessment defer high school student activity accounts death resources uh co-curricular athletic fees by 12 and a half% discretionary cost of 50k High School business teaching position High School support staff position High School general Ed Middle
180School librarian security staff and parking that gets us to one I think that were kind of coalescing around and then the three that are debating that were on the list that I read originally were the World Language head the nurse and the adjustment counselor because we removed the principal those last three constitute $287,000 of the 833 total take a quick vote on that draw a PLL on that Bill yes Matt Melissa no Andra no that had the nurse and adjustment counselor in it correct yeah make correct Adrian no Lisa no Trevor yes Jeff I think yes I'm getting a little lost in the details Chris yes yeah I'm a yes and I'm I'm quite sure that Erica would be a yes on that as well based on what feedback she gave us so that would
181be seven one short if we go in the other direction and we put the assistant principal back on there and we pull out the ones that you added right I don't get paid enough for this job if we pull out World Language nurse adjustment counselor no World Language still in there it's out the other ones my and I think Adrian shares the same thing you take that out it's not going back in and again you're you're hurting the students I just we had the world language in um Department had up here the other day asked her specific could you get through the year without refilling your your position she said absolutely yes for this mean compare that to some of these other things we're taking out where there's nothing coming in in in behind it
182I mean to me this is this is a lot less painful than a lot of the other things we're talking about here we can't look at every single position and go oh but there's like this and this and this because there's always this and this and this it's not I'm sorry it's not just the for the six months it's ongoing it's beyond just six or seven months she won't be around they said level services not adding that back in that's where I can't get on board it's like you're you're hurting that department you're hurting the the students by because it's not going to go back in the budget you don't know that that's what they just said said if it's level service it's not going back in but we have the ability would have to
183put it back Adrian I don't know that I have the authority to call rle but like is there an appetite for everyone to fight as hard as possible to get that line item for the World Language head back in that budget next year so that we repair damage the damage I mean first we we should assess whether there is any we shouldn't assume that it's all going to break I've heard enough from the people in in the weeds to believe that there will be some significant impact and a lot that needs to be absorbed that's um I also heard the woman who is in that role who said we'll figure it out say but please don't do it I thought she said but please do not cut a teacher what she said because that was
184the obvious cut among all the teachers that was the one that we could have chosen instead really I don't know maybe I heard her wrong but I was just gonna say I mean that's my intent for these empty spots I mean I know it's wishful thinking and we're not going to be the same committee next year but that was my only reasoning for looking at those two things is that that would be a fight that I would be willing to have to get it back in agreed all day so if but I know it's a it's tough I mean I think probably one of the action items for next year for the school committee to think about and I might not be here like I've got to run for reelection so I might not be
185here Trevor might not be here there's a few of us that may not be here but I think one of the obvious things that's got to be looked at is the structure of the school and what the the director of teacher teaching and learning position looks like with respect to all the department heads the number of departments we have the entire thing needs to be look looked at and decided is this the right structure or not right we shouldn't be worried about looking at this one department head because I think you need to look at all of it next year in in conjunction with the Strategic plan right the whole thing's got to be looked at so whether we're going to uh consider to add this or back or or keep it or what however
186you want to look at it to me is it's a moot point it's got to be it's going to be talked about no matter what the way I look at it we can save one of the adjustment counselors or nurse Physicians if we can do something with bringing revenues which right now the only thing we have on the table is athletic and co-curricular pce and parking what would you do I would still go back to the 25% because it is saving a position that's going to affect our students and I don't know whether or not that's the World Language I can't in good I can't vote for a budget that has a nurse and an adjustment counselor cover I I just want to kind of reiterate the article I had sent to the entire committee
187when we had families paying over $20,000 to play high school athletics that number is crazy to me by the time a family of four their children got through or four children got through high school there their the family was paying $20,000 in athletic fees we shouldn't be charging students $220,000 to be able to participate in what we has have historically thought was an aspect of our the education we provide to our students so I I I really think it's just not an issue that we want to bring up right now and it needs a deeper approach like I've said probably three times now so I'm comfortable at the 12.5 but I won't go higher I I agree with I it was extraordinarily um uh strong feedback from the community about the uh about the athletic
188and co-curricular fees and it was applauded when we made a significant cut um so I wouldn't uh reverse all of that uh at this point I guess a question for Jeff and Chris is there any way you would consider um the assistant principal position being cut I more go ahead yeah you know these are all bad decisions right so it's not that I advocate for losing my but um I just think of priorization impact across the board you know that assistant principle affects you know broad swash of the the school right whereas this where I go back to the sa as much I don't like it their impact is much more you know is is more reduced right their exposure is a small subset that's important and high need but we have backup for that
189we have six other sa's already so going for 17% cut there versus something that's really really here is really a core function you know for the infrastructure I I really don't think I can get get past that Adrian we put the assistant principal and the World Language head back in it gets us to 833 777 if people are willing to compromise on assistant principal I'll compromise on the language head Chris and just to be clear that keeps nurse and addressment counselor off the table and how did you get that 833 High School business teaching High School support staff for a fraud assessment defer activity account audit math resources increase athletic fees 12.5 General Ed parah discretionary cost reductions Bo language head is it Middle School librarian security staff position parking assistant principal this list it's
190the exact list on the board isn't it plus the 10K right I don't know it's a Middleton proposal okay I was conf yeah that's not isn't it but we've taken things off we put them back on we take off we put them back on now in it's where we started at 7 pm correct yeah 7:30 you're right 7 7:36 to be precise Chris can you support that sounds like Jeff could be willing to support it so now you're okay losing an assistant principal I was always okay with that because of the other Frontline positions we have it's not ideal but I think we've got a lot of people that can offer Frontline support can I ask one more silly question Kendra it's we somebody's retiring and and you would be taking from the high school
191going to the Middle School correct right that's correct why wouldn't it go the other way when the high school is bigger and we may have answered it already and I apologize the person who's retiring is a middle school system so it's the certification it's it's just there's only one assistant principal in the Middle School oh and the high school has two okay got it so you would lose the one in the Middle School no we would lose one we'd have one in each building it'd be a principal and assistant principal each in the same building if that gets us to a yes I'll compromise okay so let's try it again agent say it one more time so just middle just to be clear I have it in front of me I don't mind going through
192it again it's on the screen right behind you that's it that's business high school plus the $10,000 parking atic fees by 12 and a half General Ed we don't need to read it it's on the screen let's take a vote give us a minute we'll do this is a decision here my biggest concern is that still doesn't this number get us to confidence in passing a override might not and then we have to get cut even deeper right that's my concern you know I'm not sure if we're so this this is the hard you know we don't have a real number we have a squishy Target right right but we made ourselves a nice Target at the beginning of the meeting of 8 to 850 I think that's to I agree can't can't be aiming
193for we can't aim for a moving Target right it's more than a good faith effort it's a two and a half percent reduction if we vote Yes is that what the budget is we don't vote on the budget until he Jeff finalizes it we come in on Wednesday Wednesday and then we have but but this would reduce the increase from 9.9 to 7.4 I mean the same everyone hear what Jeff said no I'm sorry I did not can you repeat that Jeff sure it would it would reduce the increase in the operating assessment from 99.9% to 7.4% yeah one thing we could do if if we do settle on on some tonight um certainly to socialize that uh with our fincom um and select boards over the next two days and you know share that
194this was the best we could do um to minimize the impact and see how that's received all right well let's take a another straw poll here I'm going to start with the people on the uh screen Chris yes Jeff I'm close but I'm still no at this point Trevor yes Bill yes Matt yes Melissa no Andra yes Lisa no can't no Adrian yes that's six I'm a yes that's seven I think Erica would be a yes on this but I I don't know 100% so we've got at risk she'll have to participate hopefully she's healthy and everything went well to let me ask a question if we come in here on Wednesday and it's 7 to 4 where are we gotta come out of there with a budget in a bad spot yeah Eight's the
195magic number right yeah two3 Jeff yeah are we posting for Thursday just in case haven't yet should just in case I mean we're one vote away I don't think we need to post on Thursday I think if someone has an alternative plan for us someone that's voting no has an alternative plan I'd be more than welcome to hear it right now but I don't think we need to waste another night rehashing the same stuff we've rehashed now for two and a half three weeks we we've had the same conversation ations over and over again so if there's something here that someone else has a proposal let's talk about it but I don't think we need to post for Thursday with all due respect we've actually only deliberated this for four meetings so to say that
196we've been talking for usually a bunch of bull what is it usually four meetings when you were chair how many deliberation sessions did you give us we had four deliberations and when you were chair we had four um yeah and and we came away with a budget we did okay that's all I want to know all right enough is is there like one thing like where is the where is the um I'm looking for compromise on from this like is there something I mean I'm what can we can we work on that is there one or two things to that to add in is it aside from the adjustment I mean is that because it seems like we're close but it's like one or two things here so is there something more we can try
197to figure out and work as a compromise to well whoever said no what specifically is the issue okay my two issues are the World Language head in the assistant principle it's just that's just too much and flat out said that the math teacher is just a no and I I just like I don't know why we can't look at debating that or the or the English teacher that I I get it teachers are off the table but they can't be just off the table I don't know I just those are I think there's number of us that do not want to cut the assistant principle but we're willing to compromise in order to get to yes right that's that's really yet I would argue that the assistant principle is far more valuable than a lot
198of the other things we're not putting on the list but what else would you put on the list then instead of the assistant adjustment counselor because we' go from seven to six instead of going from two to one and the nurse because we go from 5 to four instead of going from 2 to one I mean it's just simple ratios and difference per position those two positions add up almost exactly to an assistant principal I'll just add I don't want to add teachers because not only do I believe it's the wrong thing to do but I think it would be great to be able to say we reduced the budget without impacting teacher count I think that I think that message will go a long way with our voters L I would go a long
199way with the voters but it would go a long way with the fin common select board who keep telling us maybe I'll say different I think go along way with our students who will I get that impact spcom and our select boards behind us to who keep saying we have way too many teachers again they say we have too many of everything though I said the other day it I'll publicly right I don't think the with select but should have a say in how we get to a budget they should care about one thing the number that's all they should care about right it's our job to figure out how to how to find that number in the best interest of the students the the the facility people that work here and the and the
200taxpayers I would just challenge that slightly because I think the um I I presume that that there are s people with with very deep financial analysis skills on on all the finc coms and they they have been saying for years that the um because of the number of staff that we have and increases that we contractually give them addition to steps that you know all that stuff combined um has the growth rate of our operating expenses increasing at such a rate that it is not sustainable and it hasn't been sustainable for a long time and it's getting worse and worse and worse so the fact that they they recognize that you know part of the core of the issues is level of staff I think that's that's that's accurate I mean it just is so
201that they have an opinion about that um and want us to be sure that we have the right level of Staff here um and hopefully one that is that produces increases and our operating expenses that isn't going to uh break the backs of our of our taxpayers I agree with everything you said I mean no disrespect to them I guess they're they're bringing these things up because of the result which is an increase in cost on the taxpayers right yes if our costs were going if our cost the taxpayers was going down they wouldn't be bringing any of this Stu up with us but alas that's not happening alas that's not happening Joe if I could ask a quick question go ahead didn't we did we take a straw vote on taking the assistant principal
202out and having the adjustment Council and the nurse put in instead and was that seven to was that the same differential I think it was one less it was six right that's right Jeff said yes okay you could try it again that's what I was going to recommend sorry jump in yeah I think we're kind down two proposals that are close but you know there's a philosophical difference on a smaller Point not smaller but we're getting there but you I'd love to kind of you know I'm fully behind Joe's proposal as it is I like to kind of get a feel for the the count on that one what are we doing anybody change their mind about the other proposal is what it I guess the question would be yeah same thing just SWA the
203principal and then for the nurse and adjustment counselor correct and then also inclusive of the parking fees I think yeah everything else is the same so the NOS I think were Melissa Kendra uh Adrian and Lisa sorry and the file numbers are just about the same right still yeah know know to get to a yes you said if one of them was kept you'd be okay I mean I I I guess I mean I not really but I mean how do you choose between the two Health Frontline Health me I mean again I I hate the idea of even assistant principal because I know what they do but my only justification was one in one one in one and you're not firing somebody from a job that was my it's my only justification for it
204still sucks it's still horrible but that's my only reasoning for it because I have a hard time I have a hard time removing Health whether it's medical or mental health um I just think you know I I hate to say number but it is a it's a big piece of it but that's my only reasoning for it I wish I had a better one that's actually logical so I don't know I think we might hear what's on the screen plus 10K so the three people that were NOS on this I guess the question would be well get you to yes at the same number actually Adrian you said yes on this one though around I said yes on this Lisa Melissa who was the other no Jeff for sorry which scenario we talking about now
205AR deep enough for him yeah to me it's the assistant assistant principal really the you know not that I want bigger numbers but I feel more comfortable bigger numbers but it's really the the AP versus the elit rules could you get to a yes on this Jeff not tonight but I I'm going to spend some time on that this week I know that's a valid response so we got a Maybe from Jeff and I think Eric would be a yes and one of them says yes it's Joe I'll run I can run all the schedules and uh write up all the motions and everything and um have that posted uh probably shortly after lunch tomorrow Lisa take out the assistant principal add in the nurse and math teacher be clear on the math teacher the
206math teacher means where's the math teacher coming from the math teacher a retirement in the middle school would be a high school position and it would be the high school position that would be eliminated so you would move a high school teacher to middle school high school you go from 18.1 to 20 class size and I don't think it's that simple I think there are complexities with how the math Pro program is making like an armchair administrative decision on right now just for the sake of compromising that could be debilitating for the math program this feels like a 10th hour amateur solution for the wrong reasons I hope it's not 10th hour I hope it's like at least 11th but um does that change anyone else's opinion besides Lisa if we did that that change
207your opinion Melissa no it would make Erica a no so I don't think it gains us anything changes so that's not going to solve it I think we might have to stick with what's on the board 10 plus 10 and then it's a matter of getting Erica for Jeff to agree and I think the probability of one of them agreeing is high not guaranteed but high and it's not enough just to take the assistant principal off and not enough right I I know I I know it's yeah I'm just saying it out loud just want to make sure I mean I think that's Financial suicide you know I think it guarantees we would get a support from the towns if you took the system principle off you put the nurse on it's that that's a
20860k difference right 760 get 80 80 80 170 not 15 so 740 nobody's entertaining increasing athletic fees any further than 12 and half% 15 it would close a gap I'll entertain it it would close the gap that 7 and a half percent is $37,000 roughly correct 10 was 55 order that is roughly [Music] 18 something like that you 15% can get it close I just have to take this driver can you get to 15% what's the number that gives us at at the bottom so if we if we take the assistant principal out put the nurse in and go to 15% we lose you're under eight 80 and we gain another so yeah we're we're well under eight so yeah that wouldn't work for me yeah I vote I think it's this we already voted
209vot on the athletic can yeah you want to vot on the other scenario what's the other scenario I'm sorry so take the assistant principal out put the nurse in athletic fees to 15% it's that actual number I I can't do math anymore that would be GNA get you to about eight about 750 is where it's going to end up think 50 68750 right 82 of 68 a 770 15% is 825 is that what I heard you say in my math right yeah right 12 and a half that's right Matt what's the number Jeff five what is it 825 825 $100 Oh yeah talk about the total toal total 77088 all right 77088 let's try that one um bill Matt no Melissa yes Andre no Chris I I didn't follow all of the changes so it's
210it's taking the assistant principal off the list putting the nurse back on the list and then making the athletic co-curricular fees 15% it adds up to 770k I'm yes Jeff okay with it but I don't think it gets us where we need to be so I guess riskwise I don't think it's acceptable so that's a no right sorry least we're already in no l so feel free to say no if you're on the on the fence I actually kind I know that would I that one I would get on board with your yes okay still thinking it's got more nose than than not doing that so we go with the Middleton proposal not hearing any other ideas so with this it would be 8:33 with the parking added on correct parking okay anything further Adrian
211hold on hold on Adrian's got something maybe not I'm just making sure that there's nothing else there could be some savings with whoever the new AP is thoughts on that what does that look like yeah starting I'm sorry um s with the new AP okay I thought we kind of talked about that in our meeting would be that great of the savings I'm asked about savings from um Replacements and and not significant it's hard to say it's hard to say well I mean we predicted we're scraping in 15K line I know what is what is not significant exactly you don't know what year they're coming in at you don't know this you don't know that and right yeah rebgetz for replacement that's current budgeted line item that's current and Benny's right Jeff that's current less
212health and dental and then a placeholder expense for unemployment insurance oh not not unemployment insurance for that one attrition right that's salary and benefits you say my name Joe you don't get a vote this time vote oh did I ask you Trevor I'm sorry what were you a yes or a no no okay I mean that's five NOS so oh so I'm finally getting where you're going so if we had reduced if we had uh kept the assistant principal and swapped it over for the nurse question is would it still be 770 or would it be higher be a little higher it could be what's the most Junior assistant principal in the state make contract it has to go by the contract contract it it could be 20 less Joe okay thank you yeah there's
213the number so it's 790 potentially I don't think it's enough though I don't think it changes people work Le 800 something so think that's our proposal don't hear is everybody unhappy unhappy anything further from anyone all right meeting returned see you Wednesday