MRSD School Committee Meeting | 3/12/2025

001e e e we have no way of really getting to that number and so um we do need to be fiscally responsible we will need to make some adjustments I'll say um and if we do not then I don't think we're going to get the support of our Inc coms and our select boards and if that doesn't happen it's very unlikely or potentially unlikely that that the over rides will pass so we've got to be um you know careful in what we're doing here we don't want to damage anything but we also um you know we're going to have to look at things and and and make sure that we're being as streamlined as what makes sense I think so I'll I'll leave it at that and uh we'll start with comments who's got new

002comments wow gonna be two minutes there's more over here too Ma I see him so start over here with the kids on the left we need a timer I'll do that yeah uh we've come to you guys today for some all right I'm Emma Smith I'm from Middleton I presented on Monday uh I'm Noah Binger I field H I did not all right we understand F time for Masco funding is running dry and money has to come from somewhere cutting student facing position seems counterproductive cannibalizing our school to keep it running smoothly simply does not make sense what makes Masco special is the personal relationships between the teachers and the students every day these department heads and teachers are in classrooms getting know their students and making them want to learn if you want another

003reason for students inco look no further than this very meeting if we let a massive amount of teachers and department heads go we'll electives be offered what about all the electives that were promised last year and were never delivered uh what without the proper staff to run electives and without study halls what's the plan where are the students going um when making these promises an element of trust that we're putting into you guys and we would very much like for that trust feel that this year Bud C proposed more promises were made that will not be most likely if these proposals are finalized and finalized into final plan I guess for a school that wants to do what's best for its kids this decision does not seem to be benefiting the students right much what

004we are telling you please and please try to understand where we're coming from and what we emplore you to make the right decision thank you thank you my name is Maya schul I'm a senior and I'm from Boxford the justification for the scenario in which we're confining department heads is that the subjects you are combining are similar and that other schools in similar situations don't have as many department heads well first claiming that English in social studies science and math the Performing Arts and visual arts that are all similar enough to combine is lightly ridiculous it is hard for me to understand why you would even propose this as an option knowing that these fields are so incredibly concentrated in the situation where you would only combine one Department we all know you would combine

005the Performing Arts and the visual arts and forgive me that I am not oblivious enough to see the word art across both and agree with you because I can tell you right now that there is no connecting Factor besides the name of the Departments and if you argue that they are similar enough I argue that science should be considered an art English should be considered an art I mean have you seen mascow students poetry here but when you hear that suggestion you think that's ridiculous right so please I implore you to understand that the proposal which departments are combined at all is not feasible not to mention if you are losing three department heads you are losing three of your most incredible student facing Educators speaking of student facing positions have you ever considered what

006it might look like to even consider taking peek at the individuals who hide behind closed doors the ones whose names I don't know because I'll tell you something right now I know Miss Hugh's name because she shows me day in and day out why Civic involvement just like this is so incredibly important and has graciously assisted me in refining what I want to do with my post high school education I know Dr F name because she showed me what it means to have fun with science and beyond that she was a role model to me and helped me through learning what it was like to be a gay student and what would I would argue isn't always the most accepting space I know Mrs Smith's name because she's always checking in with the various Math

007teachers around the school making sure they have received all the assistance they need and are always supported I know Miss hild de Brandt's name because you've seen firsthand how the teachers here have talked about her she shows up for her Department time in time again as an expert in her curriculum and shows nothing but support for the people that work for her I know Miss manheim's name because there's no one else whose car is here that late she does nothing but devote her full-time attention to the school and its students the way that the student of that department talk about her alone is enough to realize how amazing of a human being she really is I know Mr Cassidy's name because it's rare to find a teacher with that much passion for their subject let

008alone somebody in charge of their whole department even though I have absolutely no involvement in the Prof arts department Mr Cassie has never been anything but kind and gracious to me every time I've had the pleasure of being in his presence and I could go on and on about all the teachers in this school Mr Chadwick who is one of the most devoted individuals I have ever met his provided me with the most amazing opportunity to participate in one of my greatest pions Mrs gy Mr mhler Mr scarpi Mr Mitchell and Miss Hughes all of the social study teachers who made me go from hating history to realizing that there's nothing I would rather do with my life Miss vinan Mrs Hinson and Miss Murphy who have aided me in becoming a strong writer a

009strong reader and a strong critical thinker who can recognize your proposals as baseless and misguided Mrs noise Mrs tene Mrs brard Mrs natal and Mr mcney who have showed me that it was okay to struggle with math that it was okay to not be perfect at something and have always encouraged me to keep learning Mrs Miller shett Mrs O'Brien and Mrs Clark who have truly helped me understand the world around me the physical parts that often get overlooked by somebody like me so focused on the humanities Mr leel and Mr peras who introduced me to a full new world of medicine I would have never considered before taking their classes Mrs Evans and Miss who sorry you are so far beyond two minutes how much longer very close to that I promise thank you Miss

010Evans and missa who have shown me time and time again that art is one of the most valuable things in this life and I know that me shouting out all the teachers who made a difference in my life could be a nice thank you card to them but I want you to understand firsthand that the teachers in the school are worth so much more than the price you are putting on them right now and I also understand that students aren't equipped to understand the nuances of the budget budget but isn't that a good thing because every once in a while it's important to look beyond the numbers and look Us in the eye and realize at the end of the day we're the ones affected we're the ones most hurt by your proposed cuts and

011that's not to say that we don't understand what's happening we're not stupid and we know that anything proposed has the possibility of becoming a reality so please don't act like we're little kids anymore we know what's happening and we will continue educating ourselves thank you can you yeah so um just an update here again we're going to do two minutes I'm going to let some leeway to some of the students because I don't think it's fair to cut them off when they've prepared so much but adults I'm sorry we don't have a lot of time tonight we've got a timer there's going to be a buzzer that goes off I'm gonna ask you to wrap it up so with that said go ahead please evening my name is Stacy Manheim and I'm proud to say

012this is my 12th year as the art department head at Mas gomit and my 22nd year teaching here um last year I spoke about the district's proposal to merge the art and music departments as you're likely aware this was unanimously voted down by the school committee um this is a dis discussion Point once again and I feel the need to share my thoughts through the lens of the art Department beyond our department continues to be one the very top art programs in the state as it has been for decades and is held in very high regard by current and former students parents College ad mission admissions officers and school peers Pam Culver a former Masco High School principal referred to us as the jewel in masco's Crown some of the ways this can be tangibly

013understood is from observing the breadth and quality of artwork displays um both schools throughout the year um and many other things um there are some less quantifiable uh less quantifiable takeaways um which are the students pride in what they've been able to learn and Achieve very often surprising themselves um by what they are capable of accomplishing and many other things as well I've been asked by a former School Committee Member how the art department is able to achieve this and to do it so consistently what first comes to mind is having a really good team continue to improve our knowledge skills and work together effectively to produce impactful work however the high level of student experience does not happen organically just because we have excellent teachers which we certainly do key um element to team

014success is having a coach that possesses content knowledge and expertise which is essential for guiding young teachers and working effectively with more seasoned teachers along with honing and developing high quality C Harman heads a very much student facing positions in my case I teach three to four different art classes each semester being teachers ourselves helps to establish respectful cooperative and effective relationships with our teachers we are active day operation active in day-to-day operations while also planning for the year and years ahead um my expertise is in the visual arts and working with art teachers art students and the Myriad I'm G I cut you off there I'm sorry ma'am let me make a statement I think everyone here understands how incredible our art department is we've we talk about it all the time no matter

015what you say in that paper is not going to change our mind on that uh and we're aware of all the great work that you do and I'm sorry but we we just have a tight tight schedule tonight so I'm going to have to cut you off thank you wasn't trying to brag about the art Department I'm trying to explain the role that the department has in creating the success that we have and I'm sorry I could not finish what I I know I'm and I'm sorry that we don't have the time tonight but we just don't so I borrowed a student's phone so I can make sure I try to get in that please sign in also you get up to go thank you thank you so good evening I'm Tammy Fay I'm the

016science Technology and Engineering department chair and over the past 20 years I've stood here speaking to this committee many times advocating for students teachers and our program today I just want to talk about that fundamental change in combining departments I left the Biotech Industry I waited out a budget season to be hired at Masco till mid July I get where you're at I turned down offers I chose this school Masco spoke to me as a result Masco raised me I was here ultimately so 18 years in a science classroom I've taught every level of biology I've developed several electives I know what science teachers need to be effective I know that Science Education is not just about numbers and formul formulas it's about inquiry experimentation and critical thinking it requires Labs safety protocols specialized equipment

017I'm a science person I want to understand how things work and more importantly I want students to develop the ability to think scientifically create a sciency identity this this has not happened by accident it happens through strong focused leadership and Science Education when former superintendent Kevin Lions asked me to consider becoming the science department chair I had serious reservations I'm a teacher I love being in the classroom engaging students and guiding them to think critically but after Consulting trusted mentors we realized that stepping into a new leadership role wasn't about leaving teaching behind it was about expanding my impact as a department chair I could support science teachers so they in turn could better serve for their students I could work to ensure that all Masco students have access to high quality Science Education science

018and math are undoubtedly connected but their content and pedagogical approaches are distinct science emphasizes inquiry experimentations real world applications through handson investigations whereas math focuses on abstract reasoning problem solving and logical structures I want to lead leave with the department chair role extends far beond administrative tasks we don't create budgets and schedules or cover classes or Justus do that we build relationships an overwhelming body of research tells us relationships are essential to Student Learning positive relationships between Department chairs and teachers directly impact student engagement learning outcomes and teacher retention a department chair must be more than a manager they must be a strong Communicator a collaborator Problem Solver and an advocate Mass Economic Department chairs are these people if this proposal moves forwards we risk deluding the leadership necessary to support two disciplines effectively we

019risk making decisions that prior prioritize administrative convenience over instructional quality we risk creating a department so large and Broad in scope that neither subject receives the attention it deserves and we could lose up to four teaching sections in both departments combining departments and reducing teacher support will not improve student experiences it will hinder them it will slow down the critical work outlined in masonomics strategic plan if this proposal moves forward how will the district ensure that both disciplines receive the leadership they require combining Department leaves our groups more questions and answers the seven Department chairs this decision may impact have a confined tenure of more than a hundred years hard for me to Fathom the district throwing away such proven expertise but if this becomes a reality how will the district look to fill these

020new positions how will who will ensure that no balls are dropped and details big and small don't get lost in the shuffle with each new scenario our questions grow in our concern as well as our conerns thank you thank you good evening my name is Leah Campbell I'm a school adjustment counselor here at the high school and I've had the pleasure of working here for almost 10 years I'm going to talk really fast my grandmother said not too but I'm gonna there are many challenges facing the school budget and I'm here in hopes of highlighting a small component of that budget that has a big impact on what matters most in a school relationships connections trust and a feeling of safety ensuring that our students have a lot of the things that instills a foundation

021for healthy successful adults as Brad mentioned on Monday night no one the role of adjustment counselor will come up here and give specific examples of the conversations we have with our children and the families we support but the reality of the numbers you've seen regarding the types of services we have provided is to highlight the seriousness of the Mental Health crisis and the things our families deal with on day-to-day bases they might not think about when you think about school the adjustment counselors our school is at risk of losing means 83 of our kids and their families have to start from scratch they will have to start their stories from the beginning again they will have to open the wounds and share the things they never thought they could the first time again for what

022at what cost why these two people are the front line the first line of defense they open the door that welcomes your kids our kids to share the things in life that no one wants to think about yet many of our kids struggle with our children share these things to get help to heal and to make changes recommended by these proactive interventions of these adjustment counselors change is not easy at any time of our lives but the most vulnerable the teams any disruption and inconsistency Fosters negative outcomes for some of these students that could me need that increase and result in higher demands for out of District placements which is everything we're working hard to prevent we want to be able to help our students here at mass and they want that too but to

023get what they need we have to be able to maintain the current number of adjustment counselors 83 it's the one number I ask you to remember 83 individuals in our community who have been through some of life's hardest obstacles will now be forced to deal with one more 83 individuals who are the most vulnerable 83 kids and those kids families deserving of consistency dependent ility access to support and safety are once again reminded that everything can be pulled from under them and a heartbeat if isn't well they can't succeed we want these kids the kids that have the difficult challenges to be here in mascow because they are our true heroes they are the ones that show resilience and grit and the skills that we need to be strong successful adults we want these kids

024who have struggles to stay with us here to offer the Comprehensive Mental Health System we have worked so hard to create and not just be the crisis responders please remember 83 students in their families impacted by this proposal our two colleagues can be with those 83 kids in their families thank you thank you uh good evening my name is um Kathleen Mor Natali and I'm a mathematics teacher at the high school the proud advisor of the high school mathematics team and the coordinator of the massom induction and mentoring program I've been teaching at mass anomic since 1997 or as I like to describe it when we use chalkboard and there was no computer or internet in our school and we taught the old building before alore invented it um I understand the mandates your B

025and that the budget must be cut I would ask you to continue to work hard and be creative when making the cuts so that teaching and learning Remains the priority I'll be brief but first I would like to say that I do not think the mathematics and science departments should have one um Department chairperson I think assuming that the disciplines are similar similar is simplistic reductive thinking um I first want to talk about the content specific responsibilities that the math department chairperson is tasked with selecting curriculum resources Sarah is Sarah Smith is responsible for researching and evaluating resources that can be used for students and teachers and this is one of our areas of string she has introduced open up resources Middle School a free Mathematic curric Curriculum that utilizes constructivist learning and is perfect

026within our strategic plan and our portrait of a learner hiring 8 to 10 of our current Math teachers were hired in the last few years to replace retiring teachers Sarah has hired most if not all these teachers by vetting their resource their resumés interviewing them and hiring them she has worked hard to support them and provide feedback through the evaluation process evaluation I've been evaluated every year for 28 years by an accomplished mathematician and every year I've learned something new to become a more impactful teacher Sarah's knowledge of mathematics instruction ensures that we are providing high quality research-based instruction for our students students speaking for myself the feedback I need is content specific and something a science department chair or a business department chair may not be able to provide um professional development Sarah has

027a wealth of knowledge about the trends and math and find new ways to engage student centered learning last fall she brought the creator of math medic a widely popular free online curriculum resource to mass Gom and the high school teacher spent the day learning how to use this method of teaching which employe experience first for later method um I'll skip down a little bit um also as the coordinator of the induction and mentoring program I have witnessed many new Educators who were devastated when they were laid off last year and I can see the fear and apprehension the eyes of our current mentees as they go through this budget process the National Education Association has reported that 44 to 50% new teachers leave teaching within five years and this St istic keeps me awake at

028night it's the why I'm so dedicated to mentoring as an important tool to retain and grow the careers of new teachers as a proud third generation teacher I can think of no better profession to enter even though it's incredibly challenging particularly in these times my fear is that these early educ that these early educators will not return to the classroom anymore as a completely s aside perhaps thought forgive me if this has already been discussed has anybody thought of offering a rebate to faculty members that do not use the health and dental like a lot of public or private companies do I think you could save a lot of money that way okay I wish you the best luck if you as you make these difficult cuts and I implore you to consider how each

029individual cut will impact teaching and learning that goes on in our school after all the students are why we're all here thank you for the hard work you do all year long at um dedicating your time and volunteering it to help make masanom a unique and special PL place to work in thank you thank you evening my name is car Malo and I'm a middle school math teacher here at Ma gami I'm here tonight because the proposal to consolidate departments particularly merging math with another subject area is deeply concerning while I understand that the district is facing difficult financial decisions that are the long-term consequences of this approach not just for teachers or for our students in their Futures we're living in a time of unprecedented technological change AI automation datadriven instruction Industries are transforming

030the workforce at a rate that we've never seen before the ability to think mathematically analyze data problem solving skills to challenges not just valuable it's essential for success in the modern world cutting leadership and expertise in math education at this moment is dangerously merging math in another subject such as science or even business under one umbrella may seem efficient on paper but education is not an assembly line there are distinct disciplines that require different teaching methods areas of expertise strong leadership I'm sorry strong Department leadership ensures that curriculum remains rigorous relevant and resp removing that leadership will create gaps in support will weaken the depth of instruction and ultimately will hurt students furthermore we are already grappling with an AI revolution in education our students now have instant access to tools which can solve complex

031problems just in seconds the role of teachers has never been more critical not just to teach formulas but actually help students think critically ask the right questions and develop the deeper reasoning skills that no AI can replace if we strip away dedicated math leadership and expertise we risk falling behind at a time when students need more support not less if we make math just a subset of science we devalue its unique role in shaping logical thinkers Engineers economists sorry not not a word I know and I obviously not and problem solvers we owe it to our students to strengthen our problems not weaken them in name of short savings tonight I ask the committee that truly reflect what's best for students or we making taking the easiest path forward if we're serious about preparing our

032students for the future then we must invest in the very subjects that will shape that future Math Science and the ability to think critically in an AI driven world thank you for your time hi my name is Aiden benis and many of you have heard me speak before last year and I am a resident of Middleton so I stand before you tonight not as a former student of Masco but as someone who was everything to all these people sitting here tonight that refus to let me fail I'm now in college studying to become one of them because of their impact on me not because of a paycheck but because of the men and women in the classrooms at this very school who saw something in me before I saw it within myself this is just

033not a line on a budget spreadsheet this is not just a financial decision this is a decision that determines whether students will have someone to turn to they feel like giving up whether a struggling freshman gets the help they need or whether a kid sitting alone at lunch will have a teacher notice and make sure that they're okay what's the real cost of cutting teachers it's the student who falls behind in math and never catches up because there's no one to left to give them the extra help that they need it's the teenager drowning in anxiety who keeps it all aside because the one teacher they trusted enough to confide in is gone it's the child who walks the walks into class every morning that knowing for at least one hour someone cares about them

034I know what it's like to have a teacher save you not just academically but as a person suddenly your whole future looks different when you walk in that classroom and they not and yet we sit here and discuss whether these people Life Changers are worth keeping let me be very clear administrators don't prepare students for college it's the students and the teachers that do it's the teachers that stay up late to help the ones who struggle and the teachers that write the letter of recommendations that open doors students never thought they could possibly open on their own teachers are the one that show up every single day not for a paycheck but because they believe in the power of education and in the futures of their students since the time went off I'm going to

035read you the last sentence of my thing of my speech do not trade students futures for a bottom line because once a teacher is gone they don't come back and neither do the Futures that they were meant to save thank you hi my name is Chris love I'm a science teacher here at mascow what makes masconomet exceptional did it occur accidentally or is it a consequence of a series of intentional choices an emphasis on certain priorities on Monday you heard an outpouring support for our department heads as you've heard as well tonight which is no surprise given the vital role the department heads play at Masco and I would like to share uh more on the vital role that our department head plays in the science department I started at Masco in the fall of

0362006 I had spent the previous two years at another local school I was fresh out of college inexperienced and enthusiastic I had a sense of the educator I wanted to be but very little understanding of how to achieve my goals like most schools I was evaluated by administrators with no experience in my content area a principal with a background in teach teaching music and an assistant principal who had been a math teacher skilled Educators but not science teachers my evaluations were positive but not constructive what I received was affirming but not helpful what I needed was someone who could help me become a better science teacher so when a physics job opened up MTH I jumped at the chance imagine my joy when I learned that I would be evaluated by another science teacher I

037I attribute my growth as a uh as a teacher to masco's decision to maintain a staff of Highly qualified department heads my science department heads first Dr Karen blakley and then Dr Tammy pay worked tirelessly to make sure that the science faculty had all they needed to be successful the department heads at Masco provide evaluation uh evaluations that are constructive and provide timely feedback and they work collaboratively to develop uh the Educators under their care they were collaborating to provide uh sorry excuse me they oversee the curriculum to ensure that it is of the highest quality the science department role carries additional responsibilities Beyond those of other department heads Every Spring they oversee the enormous and intricate process of ordering and distributing consumable supplies that will sustain the department for coming for the coming year

038beyond all of this here's just an incomplete list of Dr F's accomplishments at mascow she applied uh for a op a large open SED Grant this winter uh to support a three-year implementation of a new Middle School curriculum um it's been moved to the final stage of the Grant application process on Friday four Mass economic teachers joined her for an interview um she's very proud of this collaborative work and it will result in uh if it is awarded up to $40,000 to support the curriculum she's partnered with local businesses including Harvard uh MIT New England biolabs and Amgen uh and she's Leed trips I've long said that masco's decision to keep a full staff of department heads shows its commitment to briding students with the best possible education reducing or consolidating the department heads would

039dilute the exceptional education that Masco provides eliminating content specialist department heads would create a critical Gap in the mentorship and feedback that rookie teachers require to become effective Educators currently department heads also teach at least one class this keeps them grounded in the mission of Masco to educate students if departments are combined how will these department heads continue to have the time to teach what will be lost when Masco uh no longer has administrators who are also teachers how can Masco Thrive when decision makers are distance from the distance from the consequences of their choices and Educators have fewer receipts to the table to help inform future decisions I urge you to reconsider your proposal to merge department heads under a single Department good evening I'm Dr Christian the blank and I'm a seventh grade

040English teacher here at mascow this is a statement that I'm reading on behalf of and in support of the Middle School librarian mascow is always had a full-time School library teacher at each school as the country still recovers learning loss from Co with some districts falling further behind academically not not seeing any Improvement we are inching our way back in fact in the Middle School book checkout is back to preco levels over 2,000 books here to date more than double the high school read School readership averaging six to seven books per student cutting this vital Lifeline for students will undoubtedly have far-reaching effects Middle School readers need extra support to stay engaged if they continue reading through Middle School are more likely to be lifelong readers they need the support of a full-time library teacher

041to keep that readership up schools are investment in an assertion of common values in the community Masco and the tri are known for the Great Schools and their fully staffed libraries helmed by certified School library teachers which have benefited Generations students we speak about eliminating the Middle School library teacher position and splitting the role between two schools not only will this affect readership it will affect our students academic Readiness taking a teacher from teaching two grades or four grades to sixth grades get even more tricky when you consider every time a school library teaches a lesson we teach an high grade we are teaching and grading the work of roughly 300 students per project some of the Middle School curriculum changes have built in more Project based learning which is directly supported by Library research

042skills and resources in order for our students to conduct meaningful in-depth research projects many of them require more than a day or two of school library teachers lessons and help with our current schedule dropping given periods each day and a potential split Library position with only two or three days in each building many of these projects not be able to happen it will create inequity in both buildings and prevent the incredible work that school library teachers are able to do to facilitate student learning these projects prepare students for college care and Beyond it's not just enrichment or nice to have it serves a teach across curriculum content areas some additional considerations to think about we currently receive 50 to $60,000 worth of online databases free through the Massachusetts library system these resources are only provided

043from the state for free to high schools of a full-time certified library teacher dropping our high school library teacher to part-time makes us ineligible High School would also lose access to the sore ebook and audiobook collection for the same reason this would be $500,000 plus worth of content if the district then try to purchase overdrive membership and all the individual titles our students can currently access High performing school districts continue to invest in libraries close achievement gaps and keep pushing for greater Excellence 3000 in Masco represents should be able to decide if they want to remain competitive or continue down the road for cuts thank you for your time and consideration hello my name is Kimberly I began working at Mass economic and special education department in 2000 and I taught in various special educations

044I speaking on behalf of the high school program coordinators or special education teachers many may not fully understand the role of special education teacher or the vital importance of the student services Administration to our department at the high school we have seven program coordinators our daily responsibilities include co- teing three to four classes leading academic support sessions with students providing direct instruction to develop the Reading Writing math and executive functioning skills for each IEP additionally we regularly communicate with over 24 families 30 to 40 uh teachers guidance counselors adjustment counselors paraprofessionals and service providers to ensure that our students in grades 7 to 12 are receiving the necessary supports on a daily basis the team chair plays a crucial role this position is a responsible for conducting all initial evaluations three years evaluations rejections external

045testing meetings totaling over 300 per year nearly two per day team chair also processes referrals manages consent for testing forms collects teacher guidance and nurse assessments coordinates testing for additional service providers and writes IEPs consistency in this role is essential when re-evaluating or determining eligibility for special Educational Services eliminating the team chair position significantly impact special education staff reducing their oneon-one time students due to an increased meeting mode this would pull them away from co-taught and academic Support classes depriving students disabilities of the services and instruction they are legally entitled to receive not only is the team chair crucial to an effective and efficient student service department the as well I'm not going to overread my things but the assistant director runs our summer programing special education and Credit Recovery that TOS more than 50

046students in the summer I know Brad spoke to you on Monday of all the um responsibilities that they have but I do want you to know they have 70 out of District students compared to the 20 to 25 that the program quarters almost double of what we have removing these key positions would place an unsustainable burden on special education staff ultimately diminishing the quality of services and support for our most vulnerable students thank you thank you good evening my name is Kathy brow and I'm a high school science teacher I'm speaking tonight in support of preserving the stte only department head that has been main State massonet for the entirety of my career I know the difference a strong science only department head can make my first year teaching I was at a local high

047school that combined had a combined math science department head as a first year teacher at this school I was not supported course changes were made after students had registered for their chosen courses different levels of anatomy and physiology were combined honor students were in the same class as cp2 students and a college level textbook was chosen these decisions were made by Department was a math teacher no discredit to them but they just didn't know what we needed in a science class I was left unsupported as a new hire to deal with the Fallout of these decisions with no experience to fall back on or guidance from the administration early in my career I taught at four other schools before I came to Masco so when I tell you that mascom has the best St Department

048of any Northshore school and only a handful of others in the state can compare or exceed us I have firsthand knowledge one of the reasons that Go's stte department is topnotch is because of the support we have received from our department hand Timmy Fay Timmy supports all the St teachers in a variety of ways she has supported me personally when I was diagnosed with breast cancer and had a m momy and reconstructive surgery she arranged for a competent substitute teacher to take over my introductory classes physics classes for the month I was out I was anxious about my diagnosis but also about my students and my classes my students needed to get passing scores on the science mcast in June Tammy always said to me it's about the science not about the mcast scores every

049time she said this to me it allows me to take a deep breath reset and focus the following spring when I had reconstructive surgery she arranged the schedule of the 12th grade physics teachers to take over my classes for two weeks when my son suddenly died in April of 2012 she focused on my family and told me to do what I needed to do she took over my biology class and arranged for a 12th grade physics teacher to cover my introductory classes she did this seamlessly from my point of view because she didn't ask me about my classes Etc she emotionally supported me in my grief and made sure all my school responsibilities were taken care of so I could focus on my family someone without a science background would not be able to provide

050such seamless assistance she also supports students in their learning tutoring students who need to pass mcast or earn credits for graduation coming into bi classrooms to teach Labs on biotechnology and making Mission Mars food and sustainability Prometheus bioethics and biotechnology course instructive relevant and highly engaging students seek her out they keep in touch with her after graduation she has used School vacations to travel to Central America to do research with former students she attends student issue meetings and works with classroom teachers to develop a plan for each student with challenges there's no way this position could be combined with math and that the Masco St Department could Comm continue to maintain the exceptional Science Education that we are known for thank you hello my name is Jenna gagnan I'm an English teacher in the high

051school tonight I'm speaking on behalf of Joe Balo hello my name is Joe baldiga I'm a program coordinator in the student services department and this is my 10th year at mascow I was surprised when I heard about the suggested cuts to the department head positions because they are among the most valued and respected positions in our building our department heads do so much that I'm not sure how we would function without them all they are teachers themselves and the only people in the building who serve in this unique position as both teacher and administrator combining positions would collapse the bridge between admin teachers and students one of the only bridges that actually give teachers and students a voice special education there are often situations where we need to get creative to find ways to best

052support some of our most vulnerable students it has given me the unique opportunity to work with all of our department heads both individually and collaboratively it is unfortunately becoming more and more common for students to miss big chunks of the school year whether it be to attend substance abuse or mental health programs we have students who miss several weeks even months at a time when this happens we have to come up with a plan for while they are out as well as they're transitioned back this is where the department heads have been so truly impressive and vital when this happens each department head already knows which student I'm talking about because they work with the teachers in the department so closely each department head is able to create a unique Alternative Learning plan that gets

053students the information they need to know in order to be successful for the content for the rest of the year and future courses challenges the students just enough but also takes into account that school is not the number reir because they are experts in their fields and know the state standards and distri District requirements like the back of their hand they're able to create Alternative Learning plans to ensure each student can be successful things like guided learning which is created and monitored by department heads directly allow students to access the curriculum remotely and work at their own pace with the ability to ask questions when they have them of the department heads in this process is what gets some of our most vulnerable students across the Finish Line If our goal is to keep students

054in the district this is precisely the kind of support intervention that students need combining our department head Physicians would undermine this entire process I Jenna two more minutes I'll be done in a minute Co Coop perspectives English 9 and 10 with Jill for seven years we can both speak personally to how much Meg Hill DEA and English department chair supported us during that process she guided and encouraged Us in revitalizing curriculum in these classes that helps engage and challenge our students while considering the state and District St mandates and all of the nuances that entails she offered suggestions on how to cover difficult topics gave us strategies when we were trying to figure out how to best teach to students individual needs and shared her experiences from when she taught the class we were teaching

055she was always she always made herself available for us to bounce ideas off of or come observe a class and always gave us honest and thoughtful feedback she played a crucial role in the success of our class which I'm sure she would deny I just want to be clear that this could not have happened without a person like Meg who like all of our department heads are devoted to the quality of The Learning Experience for our student at every level people who are experts in their fields have the institutional knowledge that encourages teachers and students alike to be their best they are crucial pieces of the fabric that cannot be eliminated or be absorbed by a single person they are for and forever should be part of what makes Masco MCO thank you hello my

056name is orcena Amsler I'm the seventh grade art teacher um as an art teacher it was ingrained in me from the very start of my career that you have to constantly defend what you do art is always on the shopping block so I'm not W to shy away from tooting my own horn or in this case our Collective horn Stacy uh stood up here and said she's not here to brag about the art Department well I absolutely am and I have visuals so please take one and pass it down this is for EUR row and this is for your what you have here are the results of the 2025 Scholastic art Awards um in the state of Massachusetts um the first page shows the results of um the Massachusetts public high schools um as well

057as their student populations SCH awards won Mass conomic ranked high school ranked fourth overall in terms of the amount of awards received in the entire state of Massachusetts also worth noting is the amount of awards our high schools won in relation to our total student population you're going to see that some of those other high performing schools like Lexington Cambridge R and Latin have student populations more than double what we have so our Awards speak to the high quality of programming and involvement we have in the visual arts here at masconomet um I also want you to notice the column that says adjusted Awards on the first and third page that is because while students are required to denote the school they attend when entering work they also have to credit the instructor if the

058instructor they credit is not a faculty member at their school it is not a reflection of the quality of that school program so with the adjusted a column award um our ranking Rises for the high school uh all right the third page of the packet is the results for the middle school had a total of 31 Awards um uh between our seventh and eighth grade visual artists I want to mention that all submissions are drudged by categories such as sculpture photography printmaking regardless no distinction for age that means our seventh and eighth graders work was judged against high school work understandably 92% of the overall awards given in Massachusetts went to students in grades 9 through 12 um um so for our middle schools to be recognized at all our middle schoolers is a huge

059achievement we had 31 Awards in the Middle School um that's the highest number of awards of any middle school public or private in the state the next ranking public Middle School had three Awards we had 31 all right this does not happen by chance you heard on Monday and today from teachers and department heads about the kinds of things that um are going to have to give if departments are merged under an umbrella of Consolidated leadership um please look at these results they do not happen without the dedicated connective leadership we have had in our Department careers I could describe any number of Hunger Games scenarios in which I left with one department head who is tasked with overseeing Visual Arts and Performing Arts I don't know how Stacy would be able to do what

060she does if she's also trying to schedule private instrument instruction oversee production of a large scale musical coordinate Junior and senior District instrumental and coral competitions or has to set up the stage for a band concert I don't see also Jared Cassy could manage the aforementioned tasks and try to Fathom the art Department's large consumables budget navigate the ins and outs of the Arts uh the Scholastic art Awards as well as other uh art shows and contests we take part of um or appreciate the Finesse with which um our art students progress through scaffolded curriculum from their seventh and eighth grade required visual art courses to their high school art studio and elective options so I know you are tasked with an impossible challenge but I urge you to retain the robust leadership and programming

061at our middle school and high school along with the content specific department heads that we now have anything else would result in man in Masco being vanilla and our students deserve more than vanilla thank you good evening everyone my name is Delany Aon and I'm a current Junior here at Mass from the start I've been involved in all aspects of the school participating in both course and theater since my freshman year Performing Arts at Masco has had a profound impact on me allowing me the space to build skills that are applicable outside of the classroom in addition to that through school I've discovered a passion for Sam that would not have been possible without the encouragement of my math and science teachers and their allowance for me to step outside my comfort zone classes at

062school aren't just about learning the information presented it's about having a safe space to grow and learn how to problem solve cutting teachers Cuts these opportunities for all students with the proposed combination of departments I worry there will be a lack of opportunity for growth among students as the offerings become altered I urge you to keep the students at the front of your minds when making financial decisions I encourage you to think about the impact this current budget will have on the future of our student body our teachers are more than a financial obligation they're the lifeline of our school they are more than the line of a budget they are more than a salary they what makes Mas Masa thank you any anyone else okay let's move on to the task at hand yes

063um I just want to make a comment that I think it is absolutely fantastic and unbelievable to see and hear from all of you tonight as long as it took I love the Civic engagement and that you're paying attention to what we're doing and what goes into the school I would encourage all of you who are 18 and to tell all of your friends also who are 18 to attend Town meetings to get out to vote because what we're going to end up doing here tonight is going to need all of your to keep these things that we all value about this school we need support we need votes we need you to hear the of the conversation tonight as long and painful as it might be but I'm so grateful for the engagement and

064for your attention to the matter and for joining us in the conversation but please also keep going stay with us and get out there and join town meeting and participate in the vote when you're able and if you're able thank you all any other comments good okay um director of teaching and learning right well we have a couple of things so we're going to look at what's called scenario 7even we're up to seven now um and we're going to spend the rest of the time deliberating all seven of the scenarios the lists are included in the packet of all seven um we want to remind everybody for March 17th uh school committee should uh work to identify two Alternatives uh to move forward for deliberation thought it was three two or three at the most

065three was what what I was told okay so we go three uh alternative one is uh current current budget recommendation from Administration which is level service um just also reminders uh we need eight school committee members to to vote affirmatively to adopt a budget um so it is a it's a two-thirds majority um we also uh the school committee must have its work done uh at least 4 4 days before the earliest town meeting uh which will be in Topsfield and um that date the 45 day deadline is March 22nd at the latest um so we're scheduled now week from tonight uh to adopt the final Budget on the 19th so just kind of review these you know again scenarios um one through seven we're up to now um we've reviewed all of the scenarios

066up to number seven um number seven we looked at some other uh things that were brought up on Monday night when we met um one of the things that was brought up is a possibility of uh combining the business and math departments as an alternative um and that would reduce a department head in that that situation uh it's where the dollar amount there at $149,000 the director of teaching and learning position so brought up that's $149,000 five um one of the other questions that was brought up um was actually to uh go back to the to the lines and see what we can scrub um and that's what we would you know we would make the commitment uh to go back and find $50,000 um see what we can do um but that's going to

067take us some time to do to put that all together but that's something else to to consider uh as a as a potential area for reduction questions on I have some you guys asked for some backup on the director teaching and learning this is all actually right from the job description uh for the position that school committee approved uh last spring um said to provide the district with leadership and providing high quality instruction veloping authentic and meaningful assessments analyzing student data to improve student learning and continuously refining learning objectives to support our strategic plan um and there's a list of responsibilities that also comes off the job description um coordinating a continuous improvement process for curriculum and instruction uh putting together processes for assessing student progress towards Mastery of curriculum objectives um develop and work

068with the district data team these uh results to inform our Improvement uh work with the professional development committee uh to plan training for instructional personnel and administrators provide leadership to the academic department heads through informal and formal processes uh develop a five-year textbook and instructional materials plan to and coordinate budget development and curriculum instruction and PD I ask questions as we go sure as we go okay um I assume the first bullet under the in responsibility something that's just like an ongoing Duty right like there's some something that exists today and it's an ongoing okay um got it the second one develop processes who else is on the district data team that's part of it actually said develop it because that's that's not an existing team specifically right they have so it should say create

069a data District tram to work with yes that is also part of actually comes up in the uh um strategic plan objectives that's I'm asking it was I wasn't sure if they now exist so they don't exist yeah we're gonna go through that that too so this looks like according to the Strategic plan this process and the district data team should be in place next year correct correct yes so these are in progress things people are maybe identified processes yes and then um the fiveyear textbook and instructional materials plan that's also due next year it wasn't crystal clear to me uh I don't know if that one's actually cashed out in the Strategic plan but that's something that actually we also need we just don't have one point okay I don't think it came up

070as a strategic initiative in the in the Strate during the planning process okay that those that's where those initiatives are calendarized strategic plan okay and thank you guys I appreciate you being with me trying to get all caught up on this um and then the other question I had was on the the slide before was the line items um are there any other considerations we should be aware of with regard to any of these positions contractually or in terms of like yeah process like if the director of teaching and learning position didn't move forward to next year then we we don't end up with the district data team because there's no see that everything yeah everything would would come drops there's no reallocation to someone else or it would we would pick up because that's

071what we do in schools and we're going to try to do the right things and we're going to try to move the Strategic plan forward but I would say the calendar is completely out the window and everything's gonna move yeah the timelines will slip and okay so that is the impact okay and then there's nothing else like contractually that we have to consider when considering these line items not that I'm aware of I like I know like with the teachers there's some like if a senior teacher a senior teacher could like bid out a more Junior role or something and like so the numbers may not um literal like can we look at these three numbers and know literally these are the amounts that would be reduced there's nothing I think we can be pretty

072confident in those those numbers I mean there are there would be um there is language in the teachers contract for example that talks about reduction and force so those are the kinds of things that we would have to follow okay um the administrator's contract does not have reduction in force language okay place and um I think that was it I'm just gonna flip through yep I think that was all the questions I had and the rest of the slides are pretty straightforward so Bill yes so as I recall from when we discussed uh this role last year that this was common position in most school districts even the pry toown Union has someone in in this role and that Masco was a bit of an outlier and that they didn't have someone in this role

073is that correct yeah that's that's pretty accurate I think there's at least there's some type of curriculum oversight position I think when you think about you know you kind of look at the the administrators at the table here uh and and on Zoom so we have a we have a an administrator who oversees our finance and operations side we have an administrator who oversees student services including special ed have ad you know an administrator for grades 9 through 12 we had administrators for grades seven and eight the one thing we don't have is like you know didn't have before last year was before this year was a single person who is responsible for the one thing that we're here for just teaching and learning right um so I mean it's is you know kind of

074the thing we should have I I agree I know it's something that the school committee discussed over 10 years years or 10 something like that what maybe you can answer maybe you can't discussion over 10 years was that because it was perceived as a nice to have and not a need to have um it was I think it was it was somewhere in the middle um but frankly the uh Financial constraints yeah um always made it easy to Kick the Can down the road yeah um and and I for one was uh very pleased last year when there was sufficient uh support to actually you know bite the bullet and and and go ahead and do that which is you know we previously stated just about every other school district has someone in this role

075um and for us not to do that um wasn't helping our our calls yeah and I I would sort of go this the next slide here um so two years ago together a team of Faculty yep Administration parents community members to create a strategic plan um and as that group did its work the thing that kept coming up was these are all the things we want to have who's going to do this and it really sort of Justified for all I think all of us in that in that group that this position this director of teaching and learning you know had some actually you know much more of a definite shape and form and and a and a purpose um so you can see there as you look at the know the curriculum is Crea

076a curriculum development and review process um which you know we're you know in the process are working on now when the colors are kind of mapped to the uh to the Strategic plan objectives so you looking at you know overseeing curriculum mapping and making sure we have a written curriculum that's actually published and accessible for people um developing assessments you know in each course you know we have students that all take common courses and we want to make sure that they're there is consistency uh across our courses um in the area of instruction um you know so you know looking at you know creating that District data team and I know that's something I've heard you know from this group multiple times about we want to see this this you know we want to see

077how we're doing we want to track our performance better absolutely should um we have a professional Learning Community model which is which is actually unique uh you know around that you know we think could be even better and so how do we actually take what we have the resources that we're committing to this and strengthen it and you know give people the tools to actually do that work um even more effectively than they're already doing uh educator evaluation is a key piece that we talked about um at length during uh during the contract negotiations and we actually have made some we think some very good strides in that area um and you also you know we'll kind of get into this a little bit more but you heard about a joint Labor Management commit that

078you know the director of teaching learning is right in the heart of making sure those those things are happening uh and then also we changed our schedule uh to create you know close to 40 hours of professional development over the course of the year and having you know a thoughtful process thinking uh strategically down the road about what this plan you know what this time should be used for because it's a it's it's a huge investment in resources we want to make sure we're doing it right um so this kind of goes into some of the initiatives here um again this these slides are actually from right last spring um my notes I kind of look at this you know go through them for my benefit everybody else up to date like it's to look

079at you know the portrait of learner competencies we actually worked on yeah last year thre them and I mapped them to the yeah this year um the content curriculum that actually happened this fall um the second one um developing assessments is actually going we worked on this ring we divided our PD time up into what we you know trimesters and so that third trimester is going to start in the next couple of weeks and that's the focus is assessment um we're also working with uh you guys heard about the education Community uh Pro partnership program um they actually also do work with assessment we've already made some connections with them a lot of connections with them actually to Resource their understanding and their expertise about developing performing assessments for students in if if I'm missing

080anything um you know strengthening professional practice um we started work on the professional communities L model last spring and that work is continuing again about that PLC how do we how do we make that more uh more effective and and more valuable it already is but make it even better um looking at our PD advisory committee um that's something that that hadn't been happening over the last couple years and has been happening all year that this you know it's a committee that's actually made up of Union representatives and members of the administration the director of teaching and learning has taken that charge of that group met I I believe they did a survey this year of the faculty to see what they were looking for out of PD work uh and use that information to

081plan this year and they're going to use it to plan next years you know going forward um again that's you know one of the things that actually so the you know I talked about trimesters the second trimester this year was all faculty Choice work you know gave teachers a a a a to the opportunity to pick their own Direction on what they wanted to work on to improve themselves for you know for 10 weeks out of this year uh down at the bottom again the evaluation system as I said earlier the jant Labor Management committee since we've settled the contract has begun meeting uh they are working on defining uh some of the changes that we brought in the contract so what does it mean to be an exemplary teacher was a big you know

082piece so we want to actually talk about what that means and have a great understanding with our teachers union on what that is um we're also working on uh implementing the the latest Department of Elementary and secondary education teacher evaluation rubric came out I think over two years ago and we're behind the game on this one and so we've got to get that one in place uh and we're also looking for we're also working on a system for incorporating student and and um you know adult feedback into our evaluation program which is also what the uh Department system uh requires and so that's something we're all going to be working on but it's been the director of teaching and learnings Leadership uh to get this you know getting these things off the ground and then

083on the district mat uh data collection and management uh we're looking uh you know was really you know thinking about how do we create a system of continuous Improvement for teaching and learning uh the director the first piece on a data analysis that piece is ongoing as you asked me about you know we're looking at how do we create a data team what kinds of Assessments we're looking at you know so developing those assessments is a as a key piece in that and then analyzing those assessments um the uh education Commonwealth project surveys we did that this year that's done uh in January trying to work with some of you I'm trying to get some uh time with them to actually present it um to members of the school committee but it's also being worked

084on um with members of uh the department heads and District administration uh as you saw that the data team is something we're we're working towards that's going to be a work in progress over the next uh couple of years uh and then also you know auditing our instructional educational practices in light of student and learning results you know what do we want kids to know and be able to do how do we know that they've they've achieved we've set out for them to do and then what do we do when they actually don't meet our expectations or what do we do when they exceed our expectations this is really the kind of whole system uh that we really need to put into place uh to make sure that we're doing even better uh than we

085than we do now and we're all out of the work that we do now y um some of the other things the dtl has sort of picked up uh it's taken a key role in uh our New England Association schools and colleges accreditation program it's a huge undertaking that will'll have a visiting team coming in October um you know and the the director of teaching and learning has been leading a team of Faculty members and developing the reports that the uh the New England Association will be reviewing and then coming in and seeing you know that we're actually you know that everything we say in our reports is actually really what's happening here that's what the visiting team does one of the other things uh you know that's been going on as the Director of

086teaching learning has been running a team that's working on developing a a uh artificial intelligence policy for the school you know this this is the wild west right now we want to make sure you know we're giving kids the tools that they need to be successful um but also that we're doing it in a structured way that that keeps them safe and that keeps us from getting sued like that school on the Southshore you know all of those things it's you know it's a big piece that you know things that things that are happening I miss anything you guys for for NES is as well as the data as well as um teaching and learning we've had a bunch of focus groups with students to get their perspective in addition to the survey um did

087six or seven um different focus groups with all grades um going in and out of classrooms for the nas just a little bit so we write a report kind of rebutting what happened 10 years ago and we have a team of um faculty from every single Department as well as administrators and then looking at what we're currently doing and then when the visiting team comes in October we also present to them what we think we still need to work on and basically what they do is they review that and say you're on track or you're way off base they meet with the staff um so we have probably 20 plus staff that are working in that director teaching and learning is running Point um nine slides isn't enough I mean there there's a lot going

088on a lot going actually I yeah I had that I thought about this I didn't write it down but that's really you know kind of an amazing thing that we're actually trying to make sure that kids understand what those you know that the portrait of a learner that we've developed actually is and what it means to them but also getting their voice and what they're seeing in the in the classroom and they're helping make all the hopefully for next year we're going to have um like graphic design the students are making the posters that'll be able to be around school so you see it every day so we can start embedding it um into the curriculum this year is all about the staff understanding the Strategic plan and next year all about the students we've

089worked um director teaching learning has been working a lot with the students both in classrooms how they can help um promote and explain to students to other students of what the Strategic plan is as well as the focus groups to talk about what their experience in the classroom without you know walking into the classroom what you know what is what are they hearing and seeing so there's a lot going so yeah Andra with um I had a question about just one of the other line items here with regard to the department heads when we're talking about you know reducing what four possible four department heads one of the line items in the description of the director of teacher and learning is to provide leadership and feedback to the academic department heads so say for example

090hypothetically we lose four department heads how how does how would his role effect or help the void that that would cause and the change that that would CA I mean how would that play in would it even play in or is oh it definitely would play in right now the the you know the director of teaching learning meets regularly with the nine department heads I think it's twice every week or twice typically twice a month but I mean individually as well so right so you know I think that's one of the things that you know if we were to go that way and cringing at thinking about it um that you know we would have to use you know use that those resources that we have in in this position to fill the gap gaps

091absolutely um you know thinking about you know as I said the other day the a department of I say 37 I mean that's that's too big for one person to manage on their own and so we would have to say you know how how would just even from a straight up evaluation perspective that yeah other other members of the team would have to be picking up those evaluations whether it's the principal or the director of teaching and learning you know just from that simple right you know it would be a lot that's why a lot yeah there's a lot of we go on there TR is the director of teaching and learning um taken any responsibility off the department heads case load and their day-to-day jobs I don't necessarily think yeah I think the day-to-day

092jobs that we're talking about probably not but that was the role to begin with it's really more to provide and they're saying no I would say we're getting no um and then second point just about the um evaluation piece I know I know in many other districts I know principles and vice principles are used in the evaluation process so if say that scenario does happen it wouldn't be uncommon for um principles and vice principles to pick up some of that work it it is I'll be honest it's a lot that's to have know just the principle and a maybe maybe one or two assistant principles evaluating the entire faculty in a building is but you also miss the content specific right and you and you do miss out on that content piece for sure that's

093the downside is we can go in and say it's good teaching but we can't go in to what some other teachers have have talked about I can't go in and give Physics help but lesson but to grow the staff I don't have that content but do think on one of the things we've talked about with the current compliment that we have is though having our principles actually do some more evaluations and observations right get in there are observations for a second set of eyes but to be the is we can do it I did it at other schools I've worked at yeah it's not looks very different it's not ideal I mean as a principle I me I I evaluated somebody who taught Mandarin Chinese I don't speak a word but did I talk about

094the teaching moves that were going on in that room absolutely um I feel like after the I couldn't do the after a teacher receives professional status it turns into more of more coach teacher here for 20 years yeah it's definitely a different relationship from a brand new teacher who may need much more direct supervision and direction to our you know further along in your career it does become a coaching relationship you know you know I would start meetings with experienced teachers and saying what keeps you up at night what bothers you uh what can we work on together that you feel like you need where you need some help rather than like I said a new teacher is more you should do this thank you is there someone else over here yeah I just want

095to thank you for this information I think this is so helpful and I wish we did more of these like insightful Updates this discs around this stuff and not like at 8:15 on the night we have to deliberate and we got two days left you know like this is yeah this is the information that I think the administration should start focusing on communicate what you guys are doing it doesn't have to be monthly but please on a regular Cadence Bring It Forward because when there's this vacuum yeah people fill it if there's no information coming out negativity fills it and people make up their mind and then it's very hard to change it so if we could be more proactive with sharing the value that administrative roles bring I think it's helpful in the common

096discourse um I don't know that it's going to change hearts in minds but it's still helpful ironically was it last week kin or was it two weeks ago that I had asked him before this before we get into this i' asked him to put together a deck for April for come to you guys because I know you that as well what's what's happening this year thank you any other questions on dtl all right so now Begins the fun part um I want to start by with with a couple of comments here um first of all one through seven adds up to $2.5 million ask coming out of of out of the uh select boards was amount over Insurance Plus 2% that number is $2.1 million so we're obviously not going to make all these Cuts

097it's already well ped what they had been hoping for this full list is is absolutely not happening not that anyone probably thought it was going to happen anyway but there's more things here than um know if we were going down that really really stringent path and and uh personally I don't think we should be going down that really really stringent path the first thing the second thing is I've been thinking about how we should go through this tonight and I'm thinking um we'll just revisit each section section by section and ask for comments and talk about which positions look like they might make sense which ones just don't make sense and then at the end I'll come up with a list that'll be one of the proposals I don't know if we want to come

098up with alternate proposals at that point uh you know there might be members that want to add something subtract something we can talk about it that about that then uh third thing I want to say and this is for the audience I might use the term lwh hanging fruit at some point because there are some positions that are much some some uh line items that are much more obvious than others like eliminating $50,000 from the discretionary spend that's low hanging fruit if I say it about a position I'm not saying it because it's not a position that is is uh useful and valued it's just that it's lower impa a lot lower impact than other ones so please don't don't throw darts at me if I use that term because I might um and so

099so we'll go through each section and start with the section we just talked about uh because it's fresh on our Minds um so um and I'm going to start with the director of teaching and learning question is do we have eight people that think that this is something that should be eliminated and um I'm just going to ask for a show fans we have you know who I'm gonna put it say who thinks it should not be eliminated let's go that way all right and if there are four of us that say it should not be eliminated it's not going to be on my list okay understand that there's a lot of interdependency here I just want to say that so I don't I don't know if I can say right now I think there's

100other then then abstain but if you get four people to say no then I'm crossing it off all right on my for the for my list all right for the for the first proposal does everybody understand that and what is the we don't have eight people that agree so it's going to be I'll go through line by line and if we've got four people that say no I absolutely don't want to do that then it's not going to make my list of what I consider to be okay the first um uh scenario okay so I want to go ahead Lisa before we do that one of your one of the light items was combining business and math there was not a slide and the people that spoke spoke about science and math because that had

101been the previous and I'm wondering if somebody at the table or if I can ask an audience member if like what that impact would be so so that' be the it's the math department and then our um business department I go look at the number really quick on so I'm sorry but why don't we discuss it when we get to that line item because we're just gonna go you were doing the section right yeah you said we're doing the section and you're asking my I'm not saying the whole no we're not going to do full sections we're going to say we're doing all of section seven or all section one line by line okay you understand yep and I'm only saying director of teaching and learning because we just talked about it that's why I

102want to go on that one first so who among the committee absolutely does not want to eliminate that position all right that's not on the list next item on the list is um discretionary cost uctions for $50,000 I'm going to say um that stays anybody against that that's an easy one that's lwh hanging fruit thank you one is the director of uh combining the um sorry the the department heads of math and business and now we can talk about it sorry that was gota be a little structured here question ER up sorry so I I don't know I'm struggling with this because I don't know what our Target is right and I hate to treat this thank you I hate to treat like a business but like there's a business aspect to this we're talking

103about the the finances of how we run this business and I don't want to get rid of any of them but I don't know what we're trying to aim for if if if I if this was my job somebody would give me a number that I have to hit and I would make some real really hard decisions and I don't know if we're trying to reduce this by 100,000 or if we're trying to reduce it all the way to the 2.1 million but it's really hard to make some of these decisions without having a bogey that we're trying to hit okay let's have a discussion on that then Melissa so I actually looked at the March 5th um budget deck and um that was 2% over total operating assessment after non-control expense analysis and the

104number the potential Target reduction was $71,000 7 71945 so when I was looking at the information I actually took that number and worked backwards and I I got to 629 and change but like I I I I was thinking that that that should be our Target um because that's what we've been discussing that there's certain expens is that we have no control over um so I'm throwing that out that1 might be our Target that could be one scenario Jeff fa I'm G be Little V here but this isn't a business a service but at the same time you know m is a very good qu question it's there's no answer right we have a we have a level service budget that everybody wants to keep to as much as possible but we're hearing from the

105towns that it's not sustainable and on the back side of that is there's risk of a override which would destroy any kind of everything be devastating right because a school Comm we're trying to get to a point where we think is reasonable you know we're not be holding to Town's advice even though we respect it we're trying to help get there but at the same time you know we're trying to find a number that we can live with in the towns can live with in a way that minimizes any kind of damage to the school it's it's a challenge it's a soft number like we don't have a boss saying you have to hit this number we have to get to a place where we feel comfortable that we can either get an override or

106get this funded without missing that because my sister you know she was in Franklin 2022 23 they failed their override for $6.8 million they let out 40 teachers they lost chorus they lost music devastated the school and they're still trying to recover from that and we're trying to avoid that kind of scenario long story but sorry there's no real answer of a hard number's got his hand up too I I don't know I agree and I disagree right I mean I think you just said we have to get to a number that we're comfortable with I think everybody has a number what's that number right well I think you have a number I have a number it's it's a risk assessment and I think it's different I think it's different for every town we're here

107advocating also on behalf of our own towns and every n every town is a different number in mind so it's hard to put one number that we all have to shoot towards I would disagree with that I mean you know yeah it may be hard but so what I mean we still need to at least at least for the purpos of our debate have either a number or a range of numbers you know that we're shooting for and it's not set in stone I mean we can change it and when we go through this process we may say that's not enough or that's too much and then we'll you know we'll we'll use some time in subsequent meetings but you know my perspective the you know just the operating assessment and the original level service

108budget increased nearly 3.3 million dollars um and seemed to me that in order to come up with with assessments certainly for Topsfield and and probably for the other towns that that number had to had to be reduced at least 800,000 and probably closer to a million so no no no exotic analysis and coming up with that but that that seems like a pretty good state in the ground yes so I'll had a comment here um so I met with the Boxford folks yesterday and as I said earlier anything over 4% is going to go as an override um right now we're at 10% and I think whatever we can get do to get down towards half of that probably which is 7% and that number for those of you that are curious is roughly a

109million dollars so it's somewhere between 600 and a million I think is where where we're shooting for and I mean I have my own personal list of things that I think gets us there but I don't want to speak for the committee and what I'm thinking is if we go through this list one by one there are going to be items that we can point at and say yeah that's probably one so maybe it shouldn't be maybe the way I went through it was wrong but maybe what we should be doing is looking at the things that we absolutely do not want to do and things that we AB abely should do and then the rest will we'll we'll table until we know what our number is that make sense I I think so but

110I also just wanted to say who are our primary stakeholders the students oh we have a policy on that right yes secondary stakeholders would be towns so honoring the requests and they're important too but I want to make sure we don't lose sight of that I know we have some significant work to do on Capital next year so I want to make sure that we kind of take the advice of this gentleman in the front who said we made everyone a little bit mad then you've probably done your job well because getting to the town's number might disrupt things enough that the community that we have as primary stakeholders do not Rally to support us next year as well so I want to make sure we balance that because I think that's critical long term

111thinking just putting that on the table right and I wouldn't have thrown a million out there if I didn't think from looking at everything that it's possible that's without without really really you know impacting things my opinion but sir are we not gonna go with a suggestion of number we're just I don't know man ask that question and I heard heard 600 to a million start with that I think Joe's process gets us towards a number number and then we re-evaluate when we understand what that number is and I totally agree with your point Adrian that the students are our primary stakeholders however it is our difficult work to try to wrestle with a number that is also going to be pable to the towns and taxpayers and if we don't do that properly and

112then we out and advocate for that our students and our teachers are really going to be um Ry the aall if the overrides don't pass it would be devastating so that's the risks those are the risks we need to take that is a challenge that is before us in these next few nights and we have to just get to a process that will get us as close to that reality as possible and there there are a lot of risks here yeah but we all are in agreement that the students are the primary stakeholder okay so I I like your process let's move I think we can move quickly through it and then get into the deeper debate yeah I mean again trying trying to identify the things that are more obvious than others the way

113I put it Kendra just a quick question have we exhausted all revenue I of of what Revenue we could be bringing in at this point they sound silly like for example somebody mentioned like a rebate for unused health I if it was health insurance things like that I mean if we Revenue generating in the next days the only thing that I asked about was increasing the number of uh school choice students right you could do that and it's $5,000 a kid do 10 10 a year now on at two grades increase that and the feedback I received was that the problem with that is that they're coming in from different districts they've got different educational backgrounds it increases the difficulty in for teachers so you know you don't want to have too many of those

114students based on that I I didn't include it in my you know in one of these I didn't ask for it in one of the scenarios Melissa I would like to propose and I don't know if we're going to get there because I forget when we get to scenario four that we actually restore athletic fees to the prior levels of 22 all right when we get there let's go back to let's go back to to seven because that's where we were and and uh so we already talked about two things but combining the two heads so you know everybody knows the movie Jaws one of my favorite um quotes from that is this shark is either really really smart or he's really really dumb right and today I had an idea when it came to

115the department heads and I don't know if it's really really smart or really really dumb but we have a retiring um department head and we don't need to eliminate the department head we don't need to combine that department with another department one thing we can choose to do is wait to fill it wait a year to refill it why would we do that well because this year we've got this huge increase in out of District um placements right next year it shouldn't be and we're also going to be working from a higher basis level next year because of the increase in the budget in general so it might be by delaying it a year the argument is we've got lots of really good teachers can they go a year without having a department head it

116would save us probably $140,000 sorry yes Jeff you said about 100 about 100 sorry about $100,000 and it wouldn't be eliminating a position it would just be delaying filling the position so it's Thinking Out of the Box a little bit I think the um the drawback is you would have to really add it back next year yes to add have to increase your budget by the cost of whatever that position is it's not it goes It goes unfilled but you're going to have to yeah and the hope is that we're not looking at a 10% increase next year right and so maybe it's a little bit easier we're sort of what yeah we it's not on this list not on the list what department language language what language I mean the ones that hurt the

117most back on that idea just because I think next year going to be in a very similar situation and to make the pitch that we're then adding staff I know we had lost one I just I think if we're going to go that direction you got to go all in on it we can't make promises for what a future committee may or may not do so I I I don't like that idea other comments Jeff I think it's worth keeping on the table for now but if we did something like that it had be Crystal cleair documented that this is not an ad later on this is just a delay it's a vacant position right we just drag our feet right uh Erica go ahead uh just tangental question to Trevor if we were to

118not fill that position this year we would not need to make any promises of course we need to determine who'd be supporting those teachers and divide that work up across dtl department heads however um because they need support and supervision this year so I feel like a solution could be to just not fill it and know as a committee that that's something that we'd revisit without making the financial promise could that be an alternative option to what you proposed Joe that meets aligns with what Trevor said of course ensures that teachers have support this year but also doesn't bind us financially in the future I I don't know that I don't know if I got that completely yeah I don't know how that was different I think you guys are saying the same thing I

119think it was the same thing I think it was what I saying the same thing yeah okay so if we were to just not fill that position we would not be bound to fill it next year you can't be because of the committee right no you're not bound to fill it but be in our budget numbers no take it out once you take it out of the budget you're gonna have to that's the issue you have to put the whole number back you get it out you have to fight to put it back you need to go one at a time yeah yeah so it it's it's dangerous but it's not as permanent as combining I think department heads that's the thing I feel like we're putting I feel like we're putting that Global language

120competence diploma at risk by taking that out by leaving it vacant that just there's students and teachers that that are are going for that diploma that just feels very ah I don't like that one I'm I'm big on keeping masco's differentiators intact I see this as one of them okay that's got here Matt I you know I don't know I view it as a less of all evils right now um I don't love it I'm big on foreign languages I lived in France I speak the language I know how important it is but there's some hard decisions here and I that's a creative outof the- boox solution Joe so I think it should at least stay on the table if if we uh if we need it later on yeah like as compared to eliminating

121a teacher I think that would be a much better solution but again my my opinion go ahead Jeff just a make sure I'm crystal clear on the process so nothing we're doing now is binding we're just taking things off a thework discussion and then see where we land and then then we start right yeah okay did I have a moment just one minute since I haven't been able to speak on sorry sorry we don't have time we got to keep going all I was going to say is oh he says yes go ahead sorry one minute I promise gin Hearn World department chair I'm retiring after 29 years of teaching 21 years here at MCO seven years of department head congratulations years in the middle school thank you very much I've loved every minute of

122it uh all I'm going to say is I will be here till October 1st and my birthday is in September uh and I will work very hard with everyone here as we do all the time we meet constantly we work together collaborate all the time I will make sure our department is strong and moving forward I ask that you please do not consider reducing the French teacher our French teachers are the most incredibly talented people it is an incredibly strong program those French students are the global diploma students vast the vast majority they earn more seals of by literacy than all of the other students it's the French Department uh I love all of my teachers they're all amazing please do not cut the French teacher I will do whatever I can while I'm here

123and work with everyone for my department thank you no no no no no so so the savings that of $100,000 comprehends her being here through October so she's here partial year we don't refill her position this year we refill it at the end of next year anyway that's the idea so she retires October 1 and she's gone theoretically someone with seniority on the team would step into that role potentially or would we would do an open hiring process okay I'm just thinking of like is there a way to have someone with seniority step into the role you have to do an you have to do an open hiring process you can't prise somebody the job that would be a WI a if but that's not Leal to save save the money we'd have to leave

124it vacant Mike right right so there would be no posting it would be vacant and then if it's vacant yes and if we reduce the budget by 100k this year can can you come back up please I have a question for oh God God leaving in October will your faculty members be able to go to the rest of the year um until we find your successor question that's a statement we will do absolutely whatever we need to do to make the department ready uh I I would just say that we have some very talented teachers within the department that could do a fantastic job in that role okay good thank you that's almost Ling food if you ask me but hey I I think maybe keep it on I was just nervous with the promise

125that we're going to add it back the next year to make sure that there really is no promise make sure you're clear on that there's no promise that you would okay letting it go basically period yeah it's once you take something out it is really hard to put it back in but didn't stay in there at a partial salary because he's only going to be here part of the Year therefore it looks like a a uh cost reduction in salary Jeff you wanna yeah so Joe we'd probably carry I don't know 10 or 15% of her salary and let the rest go right to pick up the savings right so you're looking at you're looking at over $100,000 worth of additional costs in next year's budget and the position has not disappeared it's in the

126budget next year it's just like a great big raise yeah I mean you're only carrying a fraction of it in FY 26 so that would be the challenge for next year right let's move on okay all right so that's an idea um let's move back all the way to scenario one and start talking about that um I just have something to say in this section as well for everyone um so I've been getting a lot of feedback over the last three days and I tried to summarize um what the concerns are are of different committee members uh one was at least for me um do we have excess capacity today do we have teachers that aren't teaching courses that could be but we don't need them because they're again there there aren't the classes to

127be taught second one was class size um will the change if we eliminate a particular position bring the class size above 20 which is roughly where what we're what we're um shooting for in general third was will it lead to an increase in mixing of levels within a given class so we don't want um AP students in the same class as um you know people that are just taking um Regular Ed levels uh fourth was Will doing this eliminate an AP class so elimination of an AP class is more or less a non-starter among I think most of the committee maybe some folks feel otherwise but from the feedback I'm getting then the last one was do we have attrition in this department that makes it a little sensible to look at this particular role

128right so I I asked that question on the math teacher the social studies teacher the English teacher the French teacher and the business teacher positions that were here and um I got replies from um the administration and um you know generally speaking if you look at this we don't I'll go down one by one math there's no excess capacity if we make a cut the projected class size is going to be right around that 20 um if we do that are we going to have mix are we going to not have mixing of levels the answer is yes math does not offer mixed level courses period uh if we make the cut is it going to impact AP the answer is no it will not impact AP course offerings and then lastly do we have

129attrition in MA in a math position and the answer there is yes so if you look at all of that all of the things you know considered equal I guess that position is potentially one that we would consider I think but on the social studies path cap extra capacity no if we make the cut what happens to the size of the class stays at 20.1 so right at that 20 Level will it Force us into mixing levels mixing levels is already a standard practice in social studies uh will it impact AP classes no we'll have the same number of AP classes and do we have attrition there no we do not so a a um any reduction there is going to impact a person right way to look at that English we have excess capacity

130yes there is some excess capacity probably one or two sections worth of of um ability to take on um have the ability to probably take on one or two extra sessions what happens if we cut the uh projected class size is 19.1 um will it cause mixing mixing is already is standard practice in upper level English electives um will it impact AP classes no and do we have attrition no so that's the English Outlook the French Outlook um do we have excess capacity the answer there is yes we only have 13.5 students on average in classes we have 10 sections really only need seven is what the feedback was uh if if we eliminate uh the position what happens to the class size it's projected to go to 20.4 so it's right about at the

131number uh will we have mixing of levels possibly U mixing levels is done in some of the other uh languages Spanish and Mandarin for instance um is there an AP class impact no and then is there attrition no there's no attrition there and then the last part was business do we have excess capacity the answer there is yes um there's ability to combine a couple of of positions here of people that exist today and pick up any of the um of the of the uh course levels here um what does the class size look like it'll be 16.9 on average do we have mixing it's a standard practice in business classes already uh do we have an AP impact no we do not and is there a no so something to think about when you're

132looking at all of those different positions go ahead so based on that are you saying that the presentation on on February 25th or 6th was inaccurate same question because the message I heard was we can't make those determinations until we know what kids sign up for it and we're currently going through the process yeah I think I I think if you're talking about AP though right now I I was look at Jean the smallest a is AP French at 8 is that about right so you know we would have to make the commitment that we're not going to reduce AP classes and then you know there were going to be other classes that probably will end up larger on some somewhere else in that department well and I'm I'm not talking about just French I'm

133talking about there was a number in my every single one every single one and the answer was we can't know that determination until we know a kid sign up so for instance for the senior year there's africanamerican history which is brand new and then um the other one that politics some American politics something like that so if more kids sign up for like you might not be able to sustain both correct but that's pretty much every year we're looking at how many kids are signed up for a class whether or not feasible to run but the aps typically we depending upon course selection we do have some small ones because the School tries to run AP okay because we want to always offer the higher level classes reducing some staff will affect whether or not

134we have the room in addition if it's a lowlevel or a low subscribed class I think this information is very confusing and I'm disheartened that the we've sort of had a change at this point so I just want to say that because I don't know what to believe at this point like whatever so I think what I heard during that presentation was could could all capitals in bold what I'm hearing now is no impact and now after that what I'm hearing is still could yeah which one do we go with when we're trying to make our decisions think we always have to make decisions about when we when we get our course selection numbers we always go through a process every year where we look at a look at a number and say how many

135sections do we have available can we actually make this work in any given year across core departments how often are you getting a low enrollment AP class that you say we just can't run this one is it like onesie TWY or is it like it's not a lot not on the regular not a lot is it every year no no okay I think is other's based on class size and based on interest but we always air on running AP classes because that's what we do is we want to be able to hit the high Achievers as well as those who struggle so we're not oh we never want to look to cut an AP if we have two kids sign up not going to run it yeah usually the numers been eight nine we're GNA

136run it yes there's an eight there's a 10 we have an eight and we have a 10 this year because we don't want to take that opportunity away from students but to say that it won't impact we don't know until we have course selection um as well said we have some brand new APS they might not have a chance to run if nobody signs up for it it's brand new so that would be impacted we're not looking to get rid of APs but it until we know how many kids sign up so I think it's a could so if we I didn't want to say it up so if there is a reduction in any of the core areas are we confident we could still offer AP courses in all core areas that would run

137or would a subject potentially not be able to offer any AP courses any any no it's some in every class some in every subject but it's about course selection it's about the number of kids on average how many AP courses do we offer per for subject three two to three two three say two okay they don't all run every run every year and some of them take younger classmen some of them are only seniors so they're different grade levels not all seniors there's quite a few that are very well subscribed so those would definitely run can I ask a question on this subject have AP horses been made available to sophomores this year which was a subject we talked about last year computer science computer science yeah comp in Europe here compi in European history

138great not every AP course is offered every year every year yeah you and where I history get see your okay so my take on this the business position is an obvious place where we can cut because there are uh it it's it's not an elimination of student facing positions it has no impact on sections sections whatsoever the class size stays at 16.9 um the French position I don't think we would need to even look at if we do the um World Language idea that that I had not to be blackmailing people missing um and and the rest I I myself I I I don't see the you know absolute justification why you'd want to go with your you know reduce your core subject uh teachers that's my opinion so Chris what about the attrition in

139the math position Ah that's that is one place theoretically we can look at so it it increases the class size to 20 is there any impact on AP Mike said no said no think so there's no mixing allowed of classes Department yeah there is an attrition there so we could just not refill the attrition in the high school are here and I think they'd be more than happy to answer any of like specific questions they are the experts thank you good stuff they're here ER had your hand up sorry Erica go ahead the bathroom I had a question about that first I just want to say like as we're now disc in elimination of a math teaching role I just want to name for community members who may not be aware my husband is a

140high school math teacher at mascow but based on the collective bargaining agreement and his tenure at Masco five to six math teaching positions would need to be eliminated before his role would be a potential consideration so as I share my thinking now it's not with someone who has a conflict of interest but as a school Committee Member and as a career-long educator and I just wanted to say that and my question is really even with attrition it would still impact the number number of sections right so it would impact student offering maybe maybe not AP but we would still be looking at reducing the number of selections and courses the kids could offer it would be reducing a math position I'm thinking about that correctly right yeah there's reducing a position but is it reducing

141the courses that can be offered just the number of sections right the number of sections total but you know again that would be a question about how many kids signed up for which class and what run in on that so it would abely impact things there are some classes that are already running at 24 25 loaded up and that means that as we're taking away five sections those either need to have even if we're taking away five sections then those other ones are going to be extremely large pre-cal honors this year started out at 24 25 and 27 because I could not feasibly change sections elsewhere um so that was the one that took the hit and had big numbers and we worked with it and did it but if you don't want numbers that

142big we cannot reduce math teacher especially as you're also talking about combining potentially some department heads on other slides and there's different scenarios where you've talked about that because then the department head either teaches none or one I currently teach two um so that role would also be impacted you could be having a loss of five sections to seven sections of math okay something has to give so if it's not that we're giving an AP section probably the new electives wouldn't be able to run or um some other class would mean class sizes are very big um where we're trying to keep small so that we can really support the students so there there definitely would be impacts there how many um how many sections total are there today for math total in the high

143school there are 52 sections 52 yep so it would be reducing it by 10% roughly go ahead um I just want so there was a the attrici somebody just said that's not high school that's middle school so I I thought we were on section one which was a high school yeah okay so the attrition we're talking it I I hold on I I because I was not a fan of reducing any of yours so would not so you would move somebody to Middle School right high school so the opening would be in the Middle School we'd pull a high school teacher down to teach that Middle School seven Math teachers Middle School nine inle okay Math teachers in middle school so you have you have three per team I'm sorry three per grade one per

144team um in in seventh and eth and then we have um we have our geolab class seventh grade which that extra math class and then we also have a um dual certified math science um teacher and that is a poot teacher and is also in our student supports Matt mat go ahead quick question a quick comment so question is why on the math positions is the impact so low compared to the others is it just such an entry level position that's opening up that we're talking about not not a low impact let it as 54k 54k versus number was before we knew about the attrition right so that number was actually a a very less experienced member of the math department before we had the retirement put in so if you we refill the position

145of the retiree there's still gon to be savings there you can't assume it but some but yeah it's always a question still here he's telling me we're gonna save all kinds of money this way earlier today I don't know we we had a heck of a time finding Math teachers so H yeah Math teachers ask any question I think I think we our experience was we had a challenge last year filling the math positions that we had open and so you know getting somebody who was you know fresh out of school and you know coming in at the bottom of the salary guide wasn't happening so you know to count on having a savings there is is uh there probably risk some is risky yeah so my comment Joe just on just to finish up

146here right is I think we resoundingly heard from the community that they don't want us to touch student facing positions right and I'm not sure what the actual number is 54k to do damage to our math department just doesn't seem worth it to me especially given the feedback from the community any other comments yeah I just say you know this is painful across the board but there are limited non student facing position in general like you can't get left from a stone you heard that a lot so I think at this stage I'd be okay you know I these are my low lowest preferred areas but until we get to the next stage I wouldn't you know I think we should probe this a little harder yeah anyone else I was gonna say I think

147this is the last place any of us want to go I think we've established there's absolutely no easy yes there is an easy yes the business position is an easy yes I don't think for you for you was it like it it's not a business teaching position it's like okay so I think that neither of those people currently teach a class and I think the plan was to combine those positions and then one would resume some teach responsibilities so you would actually reduce a a current staff member in the area yep that's the way this is laid out and that the department head would pick up some teaching and then we also have another position that's called um a technology integration specialist who does not currently teach any classes that person would pick up a

148teaching uh role as well um there'd be three and three sections for one and two sections for the other not quite sure which one yet but that would cover the five sections from the the staff member that was laid off so would it would be a wash in the number of sections will um you know I hate to bring this up yet again but the um certainly no one around this table um is anxious to cut any positions certainly any student facing positions um but the reality is that um if we don't present a budget that can get passed in the three towns um then positions are going to get cut um and it's going to be a lot worse than anything we're going to do tonight or the next several days so yes these

149are difficult decisions um but not but shying away from those decisions um now could actually create much more hard if the budget doesn't and the overrides don't get passed in the three times and we've done no favors for our students in that case so let's let's be real here this is hard so just do it I fully fully agree with what you're saying we still got $2 million to talk about though so that's why I want to kind of keep going and see we can get some traction on other areas I was gonna say the exact same thing like let's keep this keep in the background finale there's tons of other things we can go after I yeah AR all right let's let's go on the list though uh so the um High School support

150staff position that's an a trit there I think that's hanging fruit I'll use the term uh anyone think that it is not on the committee or that we absolutely need to keep it it's going to go into my scenario all right and then there's the guidance position um I do not have a strong opinion on this one what do people think about that I don't love it I'm opposed to eliminating it I have a strong opinion not to eliminate it so I think that one I have tossed this one around and around and when we're looking at adjustment counselors and guidance adjustment counselors more commonly hand with the acute situations that come up in the classroom and those are the positions where when a kid's coming to say the nurse's office like we talked about

151and looking for someone they go then there um and that's there's a classroom with one staff in it all the time for kids to drop in like we talked about so I would rather if I had to pick between the two I would rather go to the guidance department and the yeah I go ahead the roles are one is more proactive and one is more reactive in maintaining and I I think impact one is to impact the other in my my opinion so just something to keep in mind we're a school district where 96% of our students go to college this greatly impacts that process because guidance sponsors they guide they meet with the students very often they they write recommendations they like tell them when they're not it's like a it's a process that

152like blew my mind as a parent how much the guidance counselors work with the students and I think we saw this it it would be a huge impact on a school district where 90 I think it's six% of our students go on to college so I think we need to keep that in mind with respect to our community and what is expected from our students by the their families so I just want to make a comment on what Melissa said I agree with her sentiment 100% I think where where we um are challenged here is we don't have really good data historical data on most of this these things to make good decisions I'm taking a shot here a little bit at the um the data that gets presented to us um I'm not in

153favor of eliminating the position myself but I I do think that as student population if it continues to decline the question's always out there when would you consider this and I I I look at this and I'm like I have no idea I don't know when we would consider it because I don't know exactly what one guidance counselor's um Cas load is how many students are in allowable number of students we really need that kind of give that to us we gave it to you pres in addition to the colle you pres sorry there's a discussion that came up repeatedly tonight about a student having someone in the building who they can go to those guidance counselors serve as a lot more than just College recommendations and college guidance there's academic choices uh experiential learning

154options they are they are a real connection to the students and the students who aren't on an IEP or on a 504 plan or not have a um adjustment counselor that guidance counselor serves as that that point of contact for those students also need some kind of guidance that might not have been diagnosed or identified and um the when we looked at the ratios case loads it was very very clear that that is a position I will fight tooth and nail for and so just a quick reminder on the case loads I think it was 184 184 and the cut would bring it to a projected 250 and the 250 is what the association of school counselors recommends one guidance counselor to 250 students that's the Min no that's the aspiration that's the aspiration recommend

155hasn't changed in a while when was that established with the budget in 1992 no that's that's with that was what you have to say Katie also if you look at certain schools that have 250 they don't do what our counselors do our counselors do individual counseling whether it's middle school counselors or high school counselors they follow them for their entire career they know them they know the families um to Christin's point they do the academics they do the social emotional they coordinate with all of the staff so to give somebody 2 50 you're you're maybe helping them pick their classes um and I'm not pitting one against the other of adjustment because they're totally different but to say that our guidance counselors for what they're currently doing can pick up 200 250 the entire program

156changes completely and the structure changes and what our children have been getting they will not be getting it'll be a completely different look they do freshman programming into all the classes they do sophomore programming and all the classes seventh grade programming eighth grade program like it just numbers on this one don't tell the story all right so I want to cut this one off here because I think there's many people that are saying no way so let's just move on and that's going to be a no all right um can I make a statement go ahead when we're looking at numbers and averages the numbers that are recommended that's for an average school I don't want Masco to be average I want Masco to be exceptional and I want the students who come out of

157Masco to be exceptionally well prepared to live in the 21st century so whenever I'm making a decision and I'm speaking to my community that is what I'm doing and I think it needs to be said because those are average numbers not exceptional numbers and I'm going to be passionate about students this year because I think that's that's going to be my role so you're gonna get sick of hearing about me but I'm going to be stating it absolutely okay so that brings us to the next section which are the three um basically deferring spending um items one for 15K two for 15K and one for 55k I think this one falls into the lwh hanging fruit section anyone oppose to that good that takes care of scenario number one I think yes that was scenario

158one right okay was the support staff on did we get that one did yeah we already said all right scenario two nurse position assistant principal and Middle School librarian um so the history here on the nurse is we used to have apparently two nurses that were really more than two nurses 10 years ago because there was someone or multiple people that were misum identified or put into a pseudo Health apartment role um what it looks like looking at the data is that we've gone from two to five there are three full-time nurses if I'm wrong Mike and then there are many assistants two two assistant nurses all of them are uh RN not all of them are RN I think the assistants are they're all R they're all RS they're just not all they're not

159all School nurses okay which is a LIC I feel like you can't do one so the idea here is that go from two High School nurses two full-time High School nurses down to one full-time High School nurse with one assistant full-time high school nurse same as what's in the middle school one in one um my opinion is in the grand scheme of things this one looks like a fairly obvious one go ahead can you repeat what you just said I didn't follow it sorry so I think correct me if I'm wrong but I think we've got two full-time High School nurses one full-time middle school nurse and then one assistant high school nurse and one assistant middle school nurse right so if we elim one we'd have one in one in both schools Melissa the

160high school is double the size of the middle school so I think two two nurses are warranted the they the nurses do a lot they they manage all the medication they deal with um allergies students who are going on field trips students who have allergies and have sports um and we had a make a tough decision back in 20 fiscal 21 about nurses and I think a lot of us at the time regretted that that decision so I would urge us to use caution in eliminating a nurse position because I think they do more than what we actually con what we consider nurses or what we experienced as nurses in our own childhood um and that they're First Responders um when a student I think I don't know if it was Katie or Brad or

161someone said it last week um and they were a vital role you know God forbid we have another pandemic um like I I consider them a student facing position so I'm not in favor ofing that Adrian I just um I referenced the document that you did for your numbers and just looked in to see like what was the story with the nursing back then and I just want to read part of this statement because there was a beautiful narrative across this whole document which I love and appreciate so much and if there's an opportunity for that in future budgets I would wholeheartedly support it this is from 2015 February 2015 and the administrator that wrote it said over the past several years the nurses time grows increasingly involved with complex Health needs such as diabetes

162seizure disorders concussions and food allergies moreover as you have listened to us report students mental health concerns further demand and the nurse's considerable involvement frequently students with emotional or mental health issues present first to the nurse she is then an active participant in a team that evaluates students to determine their risk for injury or self harm and discusses with parents if an outside evaluation is warranted then they go on to justify why they're asking for an increase in the nurses we'll provide a second pair of hands to concentrate on the more day-to-day issues in the office while the nurse handles more complex cases it also provides coverage when the nurse is required to attend a field trip to address medical needs of participating students be out of the office for meetings or evaluations as well

163as provide a lunch break for the nurse while maintaining coverage in the health office so 10 years ago they were addressing a trend that we are still hoping with now I just thought that was really amazing that what they wrote 10 years ago is still relevant today and in more ways we had 25% more students in the high school than we have now just an FYI so in uh October of 21 from 21 until now actually this is only 24 data um but oh yeah that's correct right we're down 100 since October of of 21 again at what point do we do we decide it's time to I mean I'd love to keep them Cuts this looks like a place to me go ahead so I would also say that due to having the nurse

164capacity we have we've been able to was sort of lessen our hospitalizations and our ambulances um because they are triaging some issues that we were not able to triage before um they are the first responder they are doing physicals field trips I mean we send 110 kids to a field trip they have to go through everyone's medical record so usually one is taken out of the equation while the other two are dealing with all the students um it it is a train station in there and to say that what did you say sorry train station it's just it's busy um and to say that I understand enrollment has gone down the need has gone up but also to say that the middle school and the high school need the same amount when we're double I

165agree with Melissa I don't think that's fair personally I guess the question I have is can the nurses be shared across schools it's not that you know we don't have two schools on opposite sides of the town but you can't leave one school without a nurse no you have excess demand over here that the nurse from the other other office goes over and fills the need the assistant right the assistant or the no there's two full-time nurses still one one one on each uh in each uh school so you would pull the nurse from one school to deal with overflow emergency in an overflow situation like what do you what do you do now do do you ever have a situation where you don't have enough people yes sometimes we have to close the office

166if they happen to be sick they're on a medical they're on a field trip um sometimes we have to close one school office and put the other one on notice and then the kids have to go to our office who then have to call the Middle School who then have to get and sometimes you don't have that luxury of time any other comments Kendra I'm and just thinking out loud here just thinking of keep talking about you know declining enrollment but the kids coming up are larger like there's going to be a larger group coming up through the middle school and we're not going to be adding more to them like there will be a larger group I'm just thinking out loud just the larger group of kids are going to come through the middle

167school and there will be one in one that will have to manage when that comes through and my other question um um with the adjustment counselors dealing with sort of the mental health aspect of that I mean is there is there an obvious I don't want it to seem ridiculous to compare because they're not the same but is there any ability of a crossover where the adjustment counselors are handling the mental health part of that and nurses are more of the medical issue I'm just trying to piece together like compare the two I get where you're trying to yeah I'm try I know I'm desperately trying to you're trying to go out being in the building you can't compare those two positions it's hard to plan that like what I meant was like situations don't

168arise like the they generally happen at the most inopportune time and you grab the the relevant staff that's available and I guess you could grab two adjustment counselors for would but right I'm just thinking like that there we have our two adjustment counselors that are handling you know incredible issues dayto day and that we have them there as a mental health you know not a backup but there you know as opposed to the nurses dealing with the direct medical um issue so I guess I was trying to just validate in my brain the level ofal time so like can't just go always yeah SCH adjustment counselor because they're already no I understand this is one area that I would consider further you would consider I would consider consider any other comments I just add something

169about the ratios because the the once you get it's a 1 to 750 like nurse per student per school it's not per District once you go above that number there become concerns about our ability to be met delegation to our students and that's part of the reason Reon why um because we had I think the Department of Health come in and take a look at our numbers and that was 500s it's it's one per five it's one per 500 but then once you get to 750 it becomes an issue of being able to appropriately handle like you can have the public health come in raise concern which is I think what happened previously as to why we partially why we added the other nurse at the high school because of the numbers so if we

170do this we're running the risk of having them come back in with that same concern and then we just have to put it back in safe assumption for all of us to adopt that we are unlikely to be adding things for the next several years probably I I mean if that feels like where we're headed from where I sit but I don't have a lot of longevity like some of you so I I hear every single person say when you take it out it's hard to put it back in and I think given where we are this year I don't think things are changing dramatically next year or maybe even the year after that so we're looking at probably three to five years where we're going to be examining the budget for savings and not

171investment so I think when we think about that and we think about three or five years out and the enrollment potentially bumping up a little and correcting it's again long-term thinking I don't want to injure ourselves today and make it a fatal injury later one thing go ahead Phil um you know I think that um you know it's it's always going to be hard to to eliminate anything um I totally understand that but I you know I'll reiterate at the point that if we don't put out a budget that gets passed in the three Towns come this come the spring we're going to be cutting a lot more than the stuff we're talking about now understood so so the risk is is is is substantial um so we can't just keep saying you know coming

172up with all very valid reasons why there's a need I understand there's a need but there's a need to pass a budget there's a need for the three towns to support it and this conversation all we're doing is taking stuff off the table um and and and not really making any meaningful progress toward toward achieving the uh the savings that the towns require but I also think our capacity for what we believe our communities will support our different and I have to believe that our communities want strong schools and the decisions that we're talking about is what we're you know making and I get it our communities just aren't student they just aren't families with students but they have historically supported our schools because that's why they're here and they have been here for a

173long time so without significant cuts to the the the original budget the administration gave us that that the three towns are going to support the bud I think we're getting there but we we have through some of the hardest parts yes and we're not really considering much yeah I I'll be quick you know I don't disagree you know School the towns have always stepped up for the schools at all times but this is a strange next few years this is a structural issue this is not a masro issue every school in the state is seeing six to 10% increases across the board and the towns are seeing it outside of the schools as well and it's a scary number and as much as I'd much rather be adding to the budget as we all would

174but this year is going to be really tough for all the towns and the risk is acute this year of not passing overrides so I think we do have to you know kind of hold our nose on a few things and get to a point where we feel like we can pass something so I don't disagree time I but to build a point we can't end up with a $10 savings or an ad at the end of the day we have to get to we have to make a good faith effort to get somewhere that's palatable or tolerable you think that we're we're still in those student facing roles and that's why these conversations are slower and more agonizing so we're not getting consensus let's keep moving and then we come back and have those

175hard conversations to where though I I'm not seeing not student facing I think we need to really start making decisions and stop deferring things let's just knock them through let me ask this how many people are absolutely opposed to cutting a nurse hands please all right it's on my list then just reiterate this this isn't the permanent list list we're gonna de on Monday right it's aario right okay um I don't even know where I am anymore after that assistant principal position we have an attrition there um I would not be in favor not in favor of eliminating not that like I want to keep that position in the budget any other feelings otherwise what's I guess which is yeah we have a little more the the Middle School assistant principal is retiring at the

176end of this year and the plan here would be to move one of the high school assistants to the Middle School go with one assistant in the high school and one assistant in the Middle School not great but sounds sounds like a good idea or workable needed it when I offered it last year I think it's safety concern yeah my point was going to be that um I see this as being interdependent with the security staff potentially and I know they are there's a role there as well for consideration so I think they're they're tied but if if safety is the concern Mike are there is there increasing number of uh behavioral issues or safety issues that we should be can my concern is the way it's been lined up is that the middle school

177would receive one of the high school assistant principles so the middle school would remain static then you're leaving one assistant principal at the high school thousand children for 900 kids is not sustainable so the middle school would remain okay when when you ask her the behavioral issues there's always it's it's school there's always children and to have one assistant principle to basically roughly a thousand students that's a big safety so I'm gonna ask the smartass question I'm sorry how do we get away with one principle then if we can't we need two assistants I'm I'm you know what's the what's the difference in the role that that causes that the assistant principles work directly with the students daily and I at the high school I work with the adults and the the two of them

178are working with the students to make it simp simplistic that's a question that people ask me that's what um so when we look at the the presentation from earlier the number one thing was respond quickly and appropriately to a building safety threat that was number one on the list bolded so it's important I am aware of of other larger districts that have one principal two VPS for 1300 middle school students um the way they compensate because they have far more complicated issues than we do is by having more security staff so I I think about this change and knowing that we would have maybe additional security staff it feels like if part of the security staff's role is to be in the building wandering the Halls making sure things are okay their backup to these

179these assistant principles yeah so but can't fill the role right like they're not going to call Par it's certainly back they're not meeting not replacing not call replacing I get it back I get it I just you know we're not um security precisions are more support to support to yeah so I I want to make sure I understood the connection between the rules if if that's a scenario we're think about would I be correct in my thinking that the behavioral issues at the high school are also more complex yes older the student gets driving y okay bigger kids bigger problems okay y maybe right so I okay that's not on the list you scenario can we show a hands or well I think I heard three people say no we you guys want to say

180who's gonna I I'll ask how many people say absolutely not one two and I thought I saw yeah saw four four is what are is the threshold it's like safety you know yeah but there's safety in like a hundred different places here right if you really look I'm exaggerating it's a line of safety though that is going to have a domino effect yeah yeah okay Middle School librarian the plan there would be I believe the high school librarian would spend three days in the high school library two days in the Middle School library and we have how many assistant Librarians two in each Library two in each Library they're part time they're part time they're on shifts not all the time you have one cover half the day right the other covers the other half

181so it's really one person it's one position so it's one FTE equivalent basically yes that's good to know because I didn't know that covered after Mike um during public comment there was a speaker who spoke about certain subscriptions we would no longer be eligible for I know that hadn't come up do you know anything I don't know the answer to that okay and but would it matter that they're still considered a 1.0 throughout the district I'd be surprised if they broke yeah I'd have to find out has one librarian for the for 7 through 12 or 6 through 12 so teacher I don't know I'd like clarification on that oh I don't know the answer said said it on behalf of the librarian statement I think he's still in the audience that would be like

182almost of wash at least half of it would be wash we add to that if we had buy them sure follow those subscriptions in the audience I know but this is a business meeting I think we have to try to stick to Chris um question about what the traffic in and out of the libraries looks like like how often are student or I know classrooms go to the libraries and learn research methods and um and the Librarians also support extracurricular clubs and readers groups and the ya book club and all that um what does the the 7:30 a. to 2:30 a traffic within the Middle School library look like so it's it's not really the traffic that's going to be affected so much because we have the library is going to stay open with the

183assistance um the problem is that you lose that um content area specialist who is visiting classrooms doing research projects I mean she's a teacher and she's dual certified she has an English degree and um Library degree so it's not just the position but that person is going into uh the health classrooms the science classrooms the English classrooms whatever class you want to um mentioned and she's they're teaching lessons in conjunction with the teacher they're teaching research uh they're organizing um um authors to come in and visit students they're um supporting students in their Friday freead that we just started this year and making sure that they have books um I think you heard Christians say that the middle school students are checking out more books than high school students so yeah you have your motivated

184readers who are coming in know exactly what you want but then you have other students who need help picking out the books that they want and what's a good fit and matches their reading level and things so um there's a lot more to it than just the traffic that comes in and out because I don't think that would be affected as much as the support they're going to get when they're in the library or when they're in class thank you why do we have um a structure with two assistant Librarians working at at is what to provide come to provide coverage after school too yeah so the library in the middle school is open until four o'clock same in the high school so you can't do was just one power position it would just be

185aun right it's more hours in a day then was it would just be that close at 2:50 or I mean they would work until 2 you stagger schedules or something this is the stuff that makes Masco Masco school school I mean the the the the assistant positions are are it's very low dollars you know they're very very they're power professional yeah it's professional realiz that can make a quick point of order I thought the intial this is to go through this quickly just to take off all non negotiables we're kind of debating each line say I didn't say it was but you I think the intention was to pull off the straightforward ones and so we're not here to midnight every night we can only do it a few nights right I mean we there

186for everything on here but I think we just want to get ones that we can of negotiate later trying to pick it up then um all right how many people are opposed to the Middle School librarian elimination do we have I would love to understand the loss of access to those things I mean my daughter uses every single one of those constantly that resource is so valuable I can't imagine if that just goes away pending confirmation for Mike I would be in I'd be supportive of that move so I'm G to put that in the scenario pending the uh confirmation that we're not losing money by doing it um that me bring to scenario three um basically eliminating a middle school um Team eth grade team okay eighth grade team y um I think this

187one might be quick when a guess how many oppose all right moving moving on scenario number four sorry Lisa all right I have a question before we go much further and maybe this isn't even a possibility but everything seems to be based on teacher salaries we want to keep teachers we teachers need to stay the thinking outside the box which is what everybody kept asking us think outside the box think outside the box I am curious we just negotiated teachers salaries again would the teachers be opposed to doing like a one-year moratorium yes on that pay raise well no let me ask while we how we figure this out and I don't know if we figure this out and then we have a subcommittee to fix our budget in the meantime look at what other

188funds we can bring in what grants they can use but you know go and look at State funding because there was a suggestion out there of trying to convince our reps to give us more funding would it be so out of line to see if give us a year you want you want us to keep all of your positions don't you none of you nobody wants to lose any of you I get that I I'm just asking generally speaking it's a contract it's a binding contract I think you'd have the uh MTA all over us if we try to go on that path we'd have a strike it would yeah it's bargained in good faith yeah it would be bargaining not bargaining in good faith we just we just agree to the contract no I

189get that but none of us were expecting any of these either I think we just need to deal with it I figured I'd ask yeah no it's a fair question told us to think outside the box yep all right scenario four increase athletic and co-curricular user fees by 10% or we could come up with a different percentage on that comments I'm gonna make a suggestion to restore it to fiscal 23 which puts $1 137500 back in the budget would be an increasing 25% that what that was yes going in the other direction right Trevor historically I think the practice and it was before I was on the committee was that the budget subcommittee would come up with the recommendation every two years going through each sport seeing how much they cost making sure their fees

190line up I think that number is much better to come out of a group like that who's working towards it then arbitrarily picking a number out of the hat that was good two years ago or three years ago um because that number might not even be good anymore so I think it's better to put a the time into this that was put into it for the reduction I think it's equally deserving to put the time into it this committee is going to choose to increase it especially at a percentage kind of policy level where it increases every year uh Matt yeah I I think I agree with Trevor I'll just say I would support the 10% increase just to deal with the inflation of the last couple years that's sorry yeah I was there that

191it's addressing it wasn't an arbitrary number it was addressing the increased cost s yeah just to clarify that though it's 10% is the total incre over um the threeyear period of the contract we in this four year period of contract uh contract's three years contract is three years I'm just trying to do the math it's like yeah it's about 10% it's looking back it's looking backwards not forwards right so it's right what does that mean Jeff explain that you have you have a cola going into FY 26 of 3.75% right we had a we had a cola this year of 3% last last year it was what 2 and a half% so it reflects an increase in the cost of stiens since the last change not looking forward into the future are we going to

192also incorporate busing into this how much that's gone up are we also there's plenty of ideas how much rent for the hockey rank has gone up there's so much to consider in this that this doesn't even begin to scratch the surface so that I will be very much opposed to a budget that has any increases to the athletic PS great well all the more reason why putting a small number in here is is is useful I still agree that we should further study it at some point in the future but that does little to address the financial issues that we have right now so if if we feel that it's um appropriate uh given recent other recent expenses associated with uh the extracurricular activities that have gone up then it's appropriate to have a small

193increase now uh I don't know which one of you was first Adrian was first I would I'd be in favor of 10 maybe even 15% with a commitment to look at the fee and examine other options because a lot of other towns have other models that seem to serve them much better than ours um there was some great research and Analysis that came out of Manchester Essex last year was really interesting um they looked at a lot of the other districts it's there's other models out there than just this is the amount per Sport and it makes it Equitable across Sports and then the price decreases with every sport that you play and so there's other options out there so I think it's worth looking into but I don't think taking it off the table

194helps us at all um okay Melissa I'm just gonna say that I was just implored to think about our taxpayers and this is a way to add Revenue to the district without cutting programs without cutting additional positions that doesn't affect our communities and I know it affects families I get it I pay for it but again it's a way to bring in revenues without affecting the community members who don't have children Trevor I will defer other people their hands over well and Jeff was first I'm sorry Jeff I just say I think we all have pretty strong PS either way probably just I'm keep C us to vote on or off and keep moving we will have time to debate this okay how many people are are opposed to um tying what really we're trying

195to do is tie athletic fees to costs but we're doing it in a kind of a clunky way according to the way we're doing it well we have data we we know what the what the change in the budget's been but anyway who's how many are opposed two all right that stays on the uh list all right that brings us to scenario five uh adjustment counselors who wants to start this discussion take a vote just take a vote how many people are completely opposed for one or two for we start with two oppose oppose for two okay oppos eliminating both two positions about eliminating one position how many are opposed wow m oh wait so is is it so I'm opposed to eliminate any well yeah that's oh so it's one high school one Middle

196School that we're talking right yeah so hold on you're one high school one Middle School it would be the elimination of one high school adjustment counselor and the idea the reason I'm saying that is because we know there's more middle school students coming up we know that we lose students at the middle school level to out of District placements I think it would be to that's not what we've heard all year yeah no numbers coming up into the middle school are are steady the audo district placements are already factored into that I thought the number of students coming in the future is increasing that's it is yeah steady yeah so it's yeah so that's why that's what I said I thought wasn't it well you mentioned the outed dist not losing any kids coming to

197the Middle School the outed District they're already out usually Elementary I think that's why you were justifying in that high school and not in the middle yeah yeah yeah got did I say it too fast go ahead okay but those same students are gonna go to high school are going to high school we're not and a majority correct me if I'm wrong a majority stay on 504s IEPs oh yeah throughout so the question is though if we eliminated one where would it be and my my point was I think the place if you had to eliminate one would be high school if you had to eliminate one no he's he's question what's your preference you know or would it make more sense if it was one does make sense that's the question point of order

198I think the original question was who is in favor of what Elimina eliminating eliminating two no one's in favor of eliminating both of them we establish correct correct so what you're assuming is that one is on the table and that people have a preference we ask a question how many would be in favor of eliminating one and I said that I think probably it would be the high school one that's what I said correct so if you left it up to Administration We could decide how to best deploy the resources that we have and you know leave it up to Brad and his department but I didn't see a clear vote there was no vote maybe see who supports reducing who supports reducing sorry who is against reducing by one refusing but I don't not

199a fan I want to keep both yeah that's you're against reducing I want to keep both I I'll say it out loud yeah you put the at risk for for RO that's the way we have to think about this what's that would you put the overall budget at risk for this position again Children's Mental Health how H protect if we lose the budget I'm open to revisiting asly go through I saw four people that said they were opposed to it so I would say it's not on for now but I do think that uh we might revisit it later if we have to put it that way I'm doing this with the understanding that we're going to go through this fairly quickly and see where we land and then go back and have those really

200hard conversations so like take the temperature go back all right dig again read moving on scenario the last scenario uh department heads three combinations of department heads I'm going to ask this question how many people are opposed to combining Department head at this point in time yep okay so that takes care of those three um combining the assistant director and the IEP chair um to reduce er sorry Erica go ahead I ask a question someone just said something during public comment that really had me question my understanding of these two roles that would absolutely impact my opinion here so someone had named that people in those positions work directly with students and provide services and student services would be impacted my understanding was that though the people in both of those roles did what was

201on the slides presented last time they didn't provide Direct Services that are on students IEP to students but they created the IEPs planned facilitated ran the meetings worked with special education teachers I just want to make sure that I'm understanding that role those roles correctly so that it is Brad those two roles and then two administrative assistants five who don't work directly with students is that accurate that's correct those two roles are not providing special ed Service yeah I think the I think the I don't know who said I think the comment was though if those roles were reduced some of their work would flow down to the program coordinators who would then have less time to work with students I think that's what yes that's what I heard I heard but would that so

202clarifying question there so in the slides presented at the last meeting it named that there were about 300 meetings that took place per year and they are the people who prep for that so I know one understand they are you know for the people who are completing evaluations they're Gathering the data they're creating the draft iups they're you know connecting and working and communicating with families to schedule IEP meetings all of those things so if there were three people because I think it's by and large outside of the scope of Brad's role to do that work but if there were three meaning the two administrative assistants and then the combination of the team chair and assistant director so if we did move forward and combining these roles if we said that about five hours of

203prep for meeting per meeting um was required for those 300 meetings we'd have 1500 hours you divide that for 40 hours a week across three people I know I'm being simple with this math and we'd have about 12 and a half weeks of work a year with 36 weeks in a school year there's obviously more that they do but I just want to make sure that I'm understanding these roles correctly because when I look at that knowing that I believe a couple years ago this work happened with three people there was a combination of the assistant director and IEP chair and it happened and we didn't get dinged by desie aggressive for six months can I can I ask where your information is coming from Amica and I want to the last thing I want

204to do as a newb is be argumentative or you know have conflict with anybody but I'm I'm feeling like defensive to some facts that are being put out there that I don't I don't know where they're coming from I'm answering questions that I'm like I'm not sure that's even real so where is the information coming from that the IEP team chair and the assistant director were the same I was the assistant director from 2009 until April that's a I wasn't ever the IEP team chairperson so did and maybe it wasn't those two roles combined but past did we have this many people because when I'm looking at this I as an educator myself massive Advocate and added so many special education position but in just looking at the numbers here because we're in such an

205incredibly tight spot in looking at the amount of time taken for all these things I'm trying to think outside the box and get super creative so I definitely don't mean to put well I'm sure it is putting this bed team and administration in the hot seat a little bit which is a part of my job but I just want to make sure that I'm understanding the roles correctly because I not and I don't want to Mis Advocate okay good so the two administrative assistants in the office they have you know they have their own full-time jobs that are that are independent of um the the team chair and the assistant director um there's one who works you know directly with me who does uh a lot of um you know the budget the billing the

206um we could never say Hey listen put that to the side and focus on also she also manages all our grants grants Transportation yeah it's a huge job you know so we could never ask her to even step into the world of scheduling or processing or you know even being involved she's not even involved in the IEP process she's more involved in the the billing the financial the the legal um that and the other administrative assistant is heavily involved in supporting uh the the special Aid coordinators who are running the annual reviews so really the the IEP team chair and the assistant director they do a lot on their own because they don't have um you know a lot of support staff the support staff is to support the specialed teachers who in addition to

207co- teing and running academic supports and coordinating with families they need support in sending out invites and coordinating um you know teachers to attend meetings and having a location for those meetings it it's not a simple um I think that's where I where I'm struggling is when I was in the classroom I was always good at making complex things relatable to people and I'm frustrated with myself that in this venue I don't feel like I'm conveying the complexity of the jobs to to you guys who have to make important decisions I think I I definitely understand that complexity being in a role you know that I have I I look at the number of students that we have with IPS look at our district and I think we have five special education administrators when this

208was put on the bill you know or proposed it got me thinking like what are this is all incredibly important work I'm sure the people who do this work are amazing but just like we're digging in really deeply to all of these areas I'm trying to understand why we need five because that seems like a large number to me based on my experience working with student population very high needs so that's where that's where I'm coming from and I hope that that is conveyed in home I just I just need to clarify because this is this can be dangerous right so there aren't five special ed administrators there's two administrative assist assistants in an office that has two special ed administrators and an assistant superintendent for student services so two Administrative Assistant with their own

209job an IEP team chair an assistant director of special ed and then my office is in there as well I I don't want that labeled as Masco has five special ed administrators because we we don't yeah I think I misspoke meant people contributing to the administrative work I understand your clarification and that makes sense to me I'm not on of the understanding that we have five administrators but people in the office supporting the administrative work of special education yeah and student services so you know it's nursing right guidance special education there there's really there's really you know the assistant who works with me is part of student services so she has a a hand in supporting nursing and guidance and even sometimes elll so I I don't see a lot of capacity um that's you

210know extra or that's idle or that's available to pick up the pieces if we were to combine um combine these two positions I I had you know written something that I decided I don't need think I need to read but I'm just I've been here a long time I've um you know from the tri town and and Masco I think as we've heard is different and the expectations are different and I think I I couldn't agree more with Melissa like our goal my goal is always exceed the standard exceed what's average and we don't always get there like we we hit the bar sometimes and we miss but we're we're trying to be better than than average because that's what people in the tri Town expect um and I think if you were to combine

211reduce whatever you know verb you want to use these these two positions it would it would damage it would damage Masco it it would be it would be a mistake that we would look back on and say wow we we thought doing this was going to save us whatever it was 121 Grand I mean it could end up costing one out placement can cost with trans can cost 180 Grand so I mean yeah as an administrative team I think like it's a massive L go for us as elt um so the excuse me the role that's on here is considering combining these two more senior roles is it also true that one of the assistants was lost to attrition you guys are actively trying to fill it now one of the admin assistants yes yes

212one of the admin assistants is not currently filled or is it's open right now it's open okay it needs to be fill needs to be filled it's the one it's actually the role that manages the grants for thect big one no lri doeses that now Mike oh Lor's got it now yeah yeah I took it out of that office and that uh Adrian that position became vacant last Thursday last Thursday okay yeah so I I'm just I'm contemplating it because you know attrition is always the to use Joe's term lwh hanging fruit and it didn't appear in here but this list right this bigger Messier complicated ask did so I mean this is none of it's good but when we're thinking about trying to make strategic decisions today that might reduce our outof district costs

213later this like one that could bite more out of just I can I can guarantee it not being yes their needs are not being met so let's all right quick vote how many knows yeah y all right move on thank you not really a quick vote qu getting there quicker than most um find General Ed per my computer just freaked out uh General Ed Pera so my understanding of this position is it's um someone who kind of helps out in high school in various ways um is I think so John delanis actually sent me a write up so I'll say we typically have 20 students in the wait room who we consider novice and require more attention because of safety reasons the professional Works in this capacity as another set of capable eyes and participates

214in the instruction of the class our current PR professional also brings over 30 years of experience with the project Adventure Course that we offer uh we use the staff member to help with regular safety checks and students know she's a reliable trustworthy and dedicated member of the department member also participates in other Fest of the Departments also oftentimes running classes when a staff member is out for any reason that was from John okay so something to consider here is that we need to add three pars is it next year correct for special ed so one alternative here would be for this person if we do eliminate the position can go into one of those roles so there's a possibility here this person if we eliminate the role Still Remains gainfully employed um I think in

215the grand scheme of things here I'm sorry but somebody spotting people in the waight room is not as important as some of the other things my opinion how many people are opposed to eliminating this one all right that one's on the list finally found my way back I'm sorry uh and then the yeah the last thing was oh there's two two things left uh the next one is the mpft position this is a maintenance position uh we all know what kind of maintenance issues we have here uh I think a quick vote on this one how many people are opposed to eliminating this I'm opposed all right skip that and then the security staff position um I got a feeling that probably we can take a quick vote on this one as well how many

216people are opposed to eliminating security there gonna be at least four so that's not on the list all right we're through it so I was just summarizing where we are at we did seven already no we started with seven you did long ago see aren't you glad I did it because we'd be sitting here ask the same question like an hour later did you finish it Joe yeah yeah I'm not sure we saved much cut the budget by 50 Cents all right so this is what I have so far 442 you ready yeah Bo 442 442 442 says Jeff not me I've got 681 check your math Joe yeah let me let me explain how let me explain how I got there all right so I've got deferring the spending on on fraud audit and

217subscription 85k I've got the one high school support position attrition 55k I've got and this is the one that we said we were going to revisit so this I had as a maybe uh actually um which is the business um teaching position I think my feeling is that the committee is gonna going to go in that direction I could be wrong uh I've got the middle school librarians so long as it's not going to cost us money on subscriptions need to be verified got reducing supplies and miscellaneous expenses by 50k um I've got the one we haven't agreed to yet either but leaving the world languages head open for the for the rest of the year after we have the retirement for 100k um High School Jed per perah position that we just talked about

218for 105 and then the peg the athletic and club fees to expenses for 55k I add that up I get 681 1880 Jeff yeah I I didn't have I didn't know the business teaching position or the World Language position the same way you did based on the feedback from the committee yeah what is the saving on the World Language 100K 100 call it a 100 Melissa okay so that's 681 so I have it up to I have a secondary proposal that brings us to a savings of 729 193 go for I have the high school support staff position the broad assessment Student Activity and math resources Middle School librarian increase athletic fees by 20% General ad Pera npft security staff business teaching and discretionary reductions of $50,000 and it brings us to a total of

219729 193 which one I don't know which one I had the librarian on mine athletic fees are higher security and athletic fees but she raised the athletic Fe by 20% on 10 like 100 and I did it I did a target of through the 1235 whatever it was this in a doc you could email all of us so we can look at it the security in 25% you said 20 20 oh I don't have it on the list because I didn't think we were G to agree to it yeah predicted which one we would agree to and I think I got nine out of 10 yeah pretty good is 51686 20% on the fees feeling that we should adjourn soon I don't there is I don't think so it's just okay I decided to feels

220that way we got a lot of work to do and not a lot of time I brought snacks guys if you need something let me know oh please no I have no I have a I brought nuts so we get two scenarios the scenario that I laid out and then the scenario that um Melissa has laid out there another scenario that people would be interested in pursuing just one more time what number did that bring 729 1993 I'm just trying to figure out how I save this silly thing so can I suggest the third scenario would be combining them so adding what thought that was I thought was added on a lot of over mostly over mine had more than yours correct combinations so I think her scenario is yours plus got one position she

221didn't have she's got that I didn't have on my L what's the difference I think we need we need meliss argument I think we can you want think the difference might have been leaving World Language head open or is that on yours yeah there we go teaching here you got 80 I don't know what this she's got like 620 I'm GNA guess it's yeah I just sent it to everybody so could actually see the numbers um if anyone wants to look at it she just sent it to thank you come on open can I POS a question yes I'm just wondering if you know 720 if we feel like that's as close I personally I think it's not quite there yet I to bring this to the towns point I think it's a good first

222pass yeah I think it's not there yet so a third scenario if Melissa's got one I've got a second go ahead Matt what's our number we said Je said at the beginning of the meeting you can't pick a number now you're telling us like we're not there then what is our number that's my well Matt you you want your boss to tell you what your number is we're the boss there's no one above us have to make that call the towns are discuss that well not they're not that's the problem but Matt we did say early IR on we were looking between 800 to to a million I heard 600 I heard 600 to one million I think that's the point everybody has their own number well we're in that range right now for some

223people for me it's so oh what would you um what would you propose because that would be the third scenario right Melissa's mine what would you guys number that business voice is it it's but it's different numbers I think what's the 100,000 the World Language attrition is that World Language oh that's World Language is the last one sorry that's a DH right I'll make a suggestion if you want to kick it off just to start conversation counselor you know I would like let the administration pick the one and I would really reconsider the the combination of the your department for discuss it you know it's a it's a scenario for discussion on Monday we just talked about and voted on that the one we overwhelm that one was pretty overly that the committee didn't I

224I don't know if could be worth this committee's time to venture back down I think eight people might have raise their hand for that one was that for Trevor special position okay there were other ones we were close on so the m the mpft position have you been in all of the uh budget committee meetings for the last year uh you you might feel differently so I'm voting with all of that information listening to the facilities problems and eliminating that $51,000 position might cost us $300,000 next year so I I have different information because of all those other committee meetings and every time I will say when I go to the finom and select boards they Hound about preventative maintenance to us so so my goal is in my scenario was to re was to

225find ways to reduce the budget that wouldn't affect students directly but that also some of these I you we can always contract out services that M pfts some of the work that they do that was my goal and my thinking I want to make a comment with respect to the student adjustment counselor very quickly because I had heard some people in favor of student adjustment counselor other people in favor of guidance counselor reductions and one of the things I I asked the administration was well if we overshot here could we recover right and the answer was you can't recover on the um guidance counselor because you're not going to be able to hire one mid year but if for some reason we found we were spinning our Wheels on the student adjustment counselor front you

226could Outsource and bring someone in um um as a contracted on a contracted basis if needed so not cheap but you know if we really saw that it was killing us we could do something about it right so just a point just a reminder we heard 5% of our population utilizes those resources so losing one it has impact in a real way for the students there's 83 out of the 14 and change 1400 and change that it's like 5% right roughly there's seven adustment counselors case load of 12 per I I don't know if that's a lot a little or L each as a case oh I 83 no the case Lo the case the case load is or something it would be it would have been whatever then you're gonna spread those 83 kids

227out over two people over two people the rest of the if you lose one then you're spreading 42 over six it's seven more each depends where like they kind of build on where it is that's cool they're building based position yeah just doing you know broad math here but Isa actually wanted to ask this the other day because your slides so there were two adjustment counselors on each level that had a few lower students than everybody else Y is there a reason why they those are the two who coordinate our Universal mental health screenings so we do the screenings for anxiety and depression they run the CPI deescalation and restraint training they have you know a couple extra so they have responsibilities they have other Mental Health responsibil what we heard on Monday night adjustment

228counselors are First Responders so if we are saving one life of one student I just think that's a very important role um I'm opposed to any reduction in adjustment counselors I in fact think we probably need more than we have but that's not the time I think I did I also hear that the deescalation and restraint training is done by them and therefore we don't have to pay someone to come in and do it right that's so there's savings there too that blocked for me I don't know what those numbers look like but okay um Bill are there is there anything you wanna well I mean I I have list is list in front of me I unfortunately cck all the things up with but um I think the the scenario one we kind of

229punted on just about all of the um uh teaching position with the exception of the business teaching positions and Melissa that's 100 in her thing but it's not now the one down Bel those World languages that's the World Language yeah I messed up I was doing it on the the Lang yeah had twice gotcha okay but anyhow I think um if if if we want more then we're just going to have to reconsider some of that those those roles so we've got Melissa scenario we've got the scenario that the whole committee went through uh Jeff has suggested adding um student adjustment counselor was there anything else besides that um I I still kind of think if we have to get to a number combine that IP role that's like two different discussions I think there's

230not a lot of support for that do what and then Bill you were thinking most of the grouped it down I'm just okay you were well you if we don't get to a reasonable number we doing a $4 million cut we're gonna have to cut it anyway times four right yeah yeah you were thinking on the teaching side I mean the one to me that is only other one that I would think consider is because we're losing a math teacher that would be the that would be the one and it's the the smallest Financial impact it's not going to be the smallest because got retire at the end of career now it's gonna be different right so the number on here the number was prior to us knowing about the retirement okay so the number

231was for the lowest 10e current staff member Matt's got his hand you're M bat a thousand too um I feel like we went over the department heads really fast um do we out of all those department head combinations are there any that we want to revisit I go back to the if you made everybody a little bit unhappy Matt the way I look at that myself is that it would be making a very not a very rash decision but a somewhat Rush decision at at at a minimum I guess and I would myself I would prefer that the station examines this more on a longer term basis in conjunction with the Strategic plan it's about exactly how all of this stuff should fit together I mean if you think about the school as a whole

232we have two libraries it's the same building not you know I know it wasn't originally the same building but it's kind of the same building now with all kinds of things like that that in the long run really need to be thought through I think it's something for next year to examine in in more detail you know I agree with a lot of what you're saying I guess if we're going to be I'd rather be talking about department heads than teachers that's all and I'm the opposite I'd rather be talking about the teachers than the department heads because we had so many people standing up there telling us everything that they do to make sure that those departments run and they run properly there's longevity and stud study show the most impact on a student

233is from a classroom teacher study show impacts the biggest impact largest impacts on student is from classroom teachers so I would have to agree with that I I I want to beg to differ because I took notes during public comment and every single student that got up there said support for department heads name them specifically most cases I mean I was a student here I could name out all the heads I had here saying academic academic literature you can't dispute that I mean I can when our students stand here and tell me okay they also stood up there and teachers too teers teachers I know I've had them okay so Matt if you're again just to get this third scenario in what I'm hearing is student adustment counselor the combining of the roles I'm I'm

234looking for the high number here from from you guys that are saying that you think there needs to be more um so if if you are gonna I mean one of the things we do here is say generally speaking hey admin pick positions that combine you guys know better than us right it's our budget your budget it's our budget but it's it's it's their expertise right their boots on the ground they go ahead so when I'm looking at this and I'm saying are we making everyone a little bit mad right who are we not making mad which one are you looking I think we're not making mad the special ed Department myself well I think I think respectfully not making that not picking at that area is a strategic I don't want to say investment

235because we're not investing actively but I think we have a real reason to maintain level service there and I think there's a good argument for it that we can bring to any taxpayer very easily um I think there's minimal Administration impact on this list and I want to call it out because it's one of the biggest areas we've heard from the voices that have reached out to us consistently so I'm just saying do we need to revisit any of that and I know that not a lot on the table in that area so are you referring to I'm looking at our scenarios that were right right What scenario are you both of them I'm so you know where do we have a balance of facing non- student facing you know is their Administration represented well

236in here because that has been an ask from the community I feel that it is I'm looking right now and it's are you speak specifically about the teaching and learning director not specifically I mean we're looking so what do we have on here for administration is my question is that the high school of Court staff position that's considered Administration right principal world langage oh that's no no the department heads the student services administrator Okay so we've done one department head we're not refilling the the position this year so that's that the world language falls under language one okay the but also a department head administrator two right is that in the list that's not on S excuse me no there's a there's I thought there was a yeah so I mean I think the World

237Language role is a department head so it doesn't we've heard an roaring support for department heads so that is that's making them a little Administration though that's a separate bargaining okay I don't think that's how the community thinks about it but want to make sure that it's balanced Melissa no um Lisa Lisa I talk a lot so Mike this is what I this is why I was asking for a flow chart a organizational chart so people can see that there's not as many depart there's not you're seeing that's what I mean this is the administration so when they keep when the community keeps saying what about the administration the administration the administration it's like right there's not 50 people back there running this school and I just want to show out to the community that

238there's not as many people out there that you think it is that's just is easy to cut it's really not it's on the back of you what two four there's six of them yeah Jeff Jeff's online that I counted Jeff yes yeah Chris and one of the reason that all the districts we all know people in other districts that are all really struggling with this and very nearby neighboring districts have massive multi-million dollar deficits and they're facing closing schools just in North andova one of we have one of the leanest Finance teams entire State and we still manage to not encounter the pr all these neighboring districts with more robust teams have I know people are looking for us to eliminate administrative positions and the dtl is the one that has a Target on its

239back read here that we need to give that position more time show it's worth we want to be a district that is strategic and Innovative and giving our students in exceptional education not an average education we all voted and discussed last year that that was a role that was lacking that we wanted to give it an opportunity to show us what it can do um I think it's really important important for you to point out like that that we do not have a big fat administrative team here that's costing the district a ton of money if anything it's saving us a lot of money and a lot of headache and a lot of bigger problems that all the other districts are facing right now this is the conversation I wanted to bring up because I

240don't have the longevity to understand that there is no or chart for me to look at when I'm talking to people in the community to say no look that's the administration and if we cut that you can see what happens there's no visual that likes of which the tri town has never seen before I'm yeah I mean and I think the director of teaching and learning role is always the first one cut in a district when there are challenges in the budget and it's unfortunate because there is a lot of value there um but the case is I think easier to make for communities yeah Melissa I think we need to take a step back and think about the story that we need to convey to our communities about Masco and they've been looking for

241the story story for a long time about our facilities but now is the time that we need to think how can we support our budget to the community in a storytelling fashion how can we tell them that we have an exceptional education system and this is what's necessary to keep it that way just as a step to step back and and what is our story and what do we want what do we want our story to ultimately be in the delivery education and from us sitting at these tables what does that story look like and I think that may inform our decision process a little little bit if we can if we can as a as a group decide on a story Matt so I'll just pointless I think we're trying to set up a

242meeting between the DCI and the community relations subg groups on the 21st which should be a full school committee meeting um to talk about exactly that yeah I'm talking about for our budget though Matt not not that start to put together the message yeah say that again Lisa talking about our budget not Capital I'm talking about our budget to talking about the budget oh yeah when is that that's after the budget processes 21st okay yeah right but but the decisions that we make here and the money that we're going to either save or spend is that story agree and we have to go into that we have to go into our vote on a week from now with a story that's my position at least a bluff right I didn't quite hear that so I

243didn't understand at least the highlights of our story oh Highlights Highlights yeah I think the story is that we want to be exceptional I think that we just don't want to be just surviving and floating I think the story is that we want to exceed I mean as a special ed parent that's the one that is like the definition of of your fight is that it it shouldn't just be adequate it should be beyond that so I think if I'm hearing everything right that's the story is that we we want to invest in Masco so that it it is exceptional and it we're not just surviving and and barely staying afloat so I think that's I would take those words and use it I mean that me that's what I get from all of this

244is that we can't just be here I mean it it's awful we have to we have to balance a budget as well but don't want to just be there because then being being right in the middle means that we eventually will be losing money and students and members so I would take that as the story I would add to that though just that there's obviously a facility here there athletic fields a lot of things that need to be done we're going to be asking for $40 million $60 million next year so we need to send at least somewhat of a message that we're fiscally responsible correct so it it it can't be only about all the great things that Masco is and you know um the therefore you're going to give us you know you're

245going to agree to whatever our whatever increase we have because it's always worth it right even though you know likely it very well is right yeah no I think that's part of to make it temper these things a little bit or or blend them together a little yeah and I I will say I haven't brought it up tonight though but I did run this through Middleton's assessment um back on the previous presentation we're very close to not needing an override in Middleton if we were to go to the those original um the kind of the sheet we had originally made up that number 729 the number you the number I had six the first the first number before we went something 681 before we started one two days ago that one yeah whatever that number

246was presentation never about that no no no it was like seven let me look it up I 750 and that would get us pretty darn close and not needing an override which would take a huge load off of our blades 816 is what it was and it was I'll read through it real quick here deferring to spending 85k one high school supports position attrition 55k high school nurse 93 Middle School librarian 110 Business teaching position 82 um eliminating High School adjustment counselor 76 which we're disputing here reducing department heads by one I had 142k there it's actually going to be suspending uh for a year and it's 100K student services administrator was on this list for 121k we've just pretty much had pretty strong opposition to that so we'd have to substitute then High School

247gen Ed per professional for 49k that came to 86 um that did not include the athletic fees for 55k but yeah you're looking at something in the 750 range right there I'd say pretty close gets Middleton's assessment to a little under 200,000 an increase of 200,000 which supp above the two and a half it's a $500,000 overriding boxing yeah roughly an override no matter what in box $750,000 reduction in the assessment is about a $500,000 override in boxing that's given what we learned last might be 600 but yeah in the ballpark what is the elementary school about the same oh they were at 10 and they were looking to not count a couple of things that we're counting so we're lower than them by a couple percent we are um so let's kind of wrap

248this up though so I've got my original list I've got um Melissa's list as two scenarios I can combine them together to get everything from both add in your adjustment counselor um add in the combining of the positions which probably isn't going to survive theine but I can do that the question to Bill and uh Matt is do you want a combining of departments on there or a teaching role additional teaching role on there so You' probably need one of those to get up into the million dollar range uh had we did we adequately discuss the combining of uh math and business department we did not not really that was the one I didn't think we talked about and that was one I have um a sheet of paper so I think one thing here

249you can tell me if I'm wrong but if we eliminate if we combine the business positions then that takes the business teaching out of play you can't do both can't do both okay then the only other thing that I feel we have to put on the table is uh eliminating a teaching position at the high school math because of the attrici that would be the one I mean we'll debate it on Monday but to me that's the one that would go on there what what maybe English teacher why the math teacher because oftion because they're all kind of equally you know no but we just said the ma she stood up here explaining how hard okay if we pick social studies of someone from social Serv will come up and say no I know but

250I wrote down all of your scenarios that you went through and you said in English it go it there's one or two sections they could lose so there is excess there students are at 19.1 standard to mix does not affect AP but yes there is no attrition whereas math be um there is no excess and would cause and would cause the classes to rise to almost 30 so no attrition doesn't mean you're that means there's no one leaving right now that we can take advantage of attrition is leaving so if you if you pick English French social studies you are eliminating a teacher's role period someone someone's getting ried yes that's the difference I we're clear okay I I mean to the English point I think every subject has their own specific you know things

251a teacher provides to the course that make it so good so English one of them is very specific feedback on Long papers which takes a lot of time time and so I mean that would be my argument for staying away from English probably that it's just different and I know math obviously provides feedback too but oh in math she stood up there and said that they were gonna get 30 30 students they didn't say that with with English I mean can we make this a Sophie's choice for Katie to say hey look that's that's cold I don't see any as getting us to a consensus but seriously I mean this this is a um again this is getting at a high number that I ER is guessing may not survive but just put it on

252the list so that we have it to debate yes right Melissa did you say you don't see any of these scenarios getting us to a consensus budget not you don't plan on voting on your own scenario I don't consider yeah but a consensus requires eight of us I would vote on mine because that's I'm just making sure this was a point I made last year like there's things on this that I don't like but I would still support it right because I think it's a a best possible approach right yeah er sorry inks I'm just thinking about the math teaching position and since we eliminated one last year five High School positions I'm wondering why we wouldn't consider eliminating like the geolab accessory like additional math teacher at the middle school level it just seems

253like to Lisa's Point what we heard about the high school level impact and the class sizes that should be a consideration if we are even discussing a high school math position so we're going a little bit um off on a tangent there unfortunately I mean I understand where you're going but I don't think we can really discuss that in any any meaningful way right now right um I'll go back to where we were um so I'll give it to Matt and Bill which would you rather see in in the that high-end scenario a teaching position or a department head combining of department heads a teaching position rather see department head but I think the will of the board is probably towards teacher do you know what you have which one I would have next on

254my list probably would have been English and social studies yeah I'm just looking at the structural change uh yeah it's I give me a minute I'll see I don't know okay all right so go ahead why did you think we couldn't speak meaningfully about the middle school math teaching position I don't think they've actually prepared anything yeah I don't have exact one middle school math teaching position as part of the team scenario reduction right but that's not that's not what Erica was bringing about Erica asked us about okay you can't you can't just do one math teacher off a team and not do the whole team in that's in that case there is an elective but we're not really ready to talk about it it's not something we've considered do we want to make that

255part of the scenario instead of a regular teacher for for Monday those guys can present on it or would you rather build this is your scenario to choose thanks we're just gonna debate it that change a program though yeah it does go through that class yeah yeah it's a pretty big impact yeah program change that changes yeah that's not level Services it's been in place for what at least a couple years now it was new goab been for a while 10 plus years okay all right oh and looking at the the chart that you had provided prior to the meeting I'm I'm just trying to get a quick sense of of in which department the impact would be the least and it doesn't jump off the page um but I I guess maybe social studies

256if you think if if if your experience with this I don't know I think they're all inre athletic just what I can say they're all equally equally distasteful no I I totally get that you know what we increased we increased athletic fees 100 375 back in the budget and we keep a teaching position yeah it has a lesser in Impact how much I propose 1375 originally I put 110 in my scenario but is it 55 now what's that 55 now you want 137 um and Joe's scenario is 55 I think yeah is 110 but it there is was your 137 bringing it back to the 20 22 levels yeah and I know it's not popular from a no public out that can be the okay so instead of a teacher in the highend scenario we

257do 20% more than that 1375 is 25% and it restores the it restores it to the fiscal 22 level when you think about rising cost of running the athletic programs right now we're asking the town's people to to supplement something that is not the actual like the fam's costs are not going up proportionately to what the cost of it is so I I think there's a very clear justification for that and we keep programs yeah we're not eliminating we're keeping all of our Athletics it's it's a choice we have to make I think we need to be careful also that it's not just Athletics umcor it's all activities taking on are everything extracurricular like the Excel clear yeah that always reduced Okay so we've got the 25% fees mat's combining of two departments the school

258adjustment counselor and the combining of the two um administrative roles um in special ed that's on the highend list Melissa's list we got my list that's three scenarios can we just stop with the special ed combining no it's a scenario we're going to debate it on Monday nobody has a has is a it's already I think we unanimously I think we see the numbers that's what I mean we've we've pretty much said we unanimously said no to that I thought unanimous what's gonna happen on Monday is we're not going to pick one of the three scenarios we're going to debate the scenarios and say no get this off of there and get off of there and and then we'll come up with the final thing so it's it's not we're choosing one of these three

259no I know that's a very ugly scenario and we keep in this entire time since on I've been on this board is trying to keep special ed and you're talking about getting rid of a position that's just going to keep pushing kids out and I have a very said that's that's your opinion we've got someone over here with the opposite opinion and so we keep it on the list it's not on all three scenarios and we debate it on Monday anything further I think that's a good starting point for the next meeting I make a motion to adjourn have a second yes all right we need to vote on this all in favor not a debatable motion all right there we go thank you thanks good night