001[Music] Good evening. The school committee workshop session of September 24th, 2025 will now come to order. This meeting is being recorded and will be made available for viewing on the Mthuan public schools website. Secretary, will you please call the role? >> Member Donovan, >> present. >> Member Wlette, >> y >> member Keegan, >> present. >> Uh, member Shabilia, present. Member Maxwell >> present. >> Member Daglio. Mayor Bogard. May I have a motion and a second to accept the agenda for September 24th, 2025 as presented? >> So moved. >> Moved by memberia, second by member Maxwell. Um, all in favor. >> Opposed? The eyes have it. It's unanimous. Please rise for this. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God,
002indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Now start the self evaluation and operating protocols workshop with MASC field director Alicia Mal. >> I have a question or comment. Is there a discussion or no? >> Okay. I just wanted to ask um on future meetings, do we get to um discuss the topic that will be presented during the training sessions only? And I'm only asking because on September 23rd, 2024, we had a roles and rule uh rules of the school committee and roles uh meeting. So I just want to make sure that we're utilizing time. >> Yes, absolutely. So, I will say that when school committees bring me in for training, roles and responsibilities and operating protocols is actually something a lot of districts do every single year. Because when we talk about operating protocols
003later, we'll talk about the fact that you should be renewing your operating protocols every year. Okay, nice. >> I'm just curious. Were you able to get responses to your surveys from everyone? >> I got five responses. So, I did not get all of you, but I did work with what I got and I figured that was a good place to start. >> Um, but I did get five sets of responses and I don't have the names attached to the responses. They were anonymous, but >> I'm not asking for that. I was just hope that we'd get a good consensus. Thank you. >> Yeah. Well, so this is always an ongoing discussion. Let me back up for those of us who have not met and I think I have met all of you. My name is
004Alicia Melon. I am a field director for the Massachusetts Association of School Committees. I am your field director. Um I have the Northeast. So if you look at Boston and sort of go up, that's me. Um one of the good things about working at MASC is we all have been or currently are school committee members. I currently serve on the Inoshoba Tech School Committee. I am the secretary there. Um this is my third year and before that I was on my town's committee for five years. So I'm starting my ninth year on school committees. So what you guys and I'm not even the longest serving on my committee. So what you guys have me here tonight for was we asked you guys to do a self-evaluation that looked at some of your um the way
005you operate, the way you communicate, the way you get information and share information. and we're going to do a brief roles and responsibilities discussion. Um, it's over there. Shoot. Of course, it's going to be problematic. All right. So, what we're going to cover tonight, because apparently this wants to do that to me. Tonight, we will cover um your self-evaluation results. Then we're going to get into your role as a committee member. um responsibilities as a municipal legislature and then we can talk about operating protocols. Operating protocols is sort of the end result of most of the discussions about um your roles and responsibilities. Operating protocols are rules of the road, sort of a rules of engagement kind of thing. So I'm all over the place on this one here. Okay. So from your self-evaluation, the
006primary concerns that um were identified in your self-evaluation and you do have the actual results in your packets as well. Um the primary areas of concern that we would start the initial discussion tonight with are roles and responsibilities, operating protocols, communication, information sharing, and respect and ethics. And a lot of these overlap. So when we're talking about roles and responsibilities, um that definitely dovetales into communications and operating protocols, how we share with each other, um how you get information from the district, how you share information with the district. Looking ahead, um these are Kristen, these are the we I had just mentioned I have identified as areas that came up as areas of concern but not as important as the other ones. um per your feedback, superintendent evaluation, um strategic planning, budget development and effective
007stakeholder feedback. Um and all of those are things that we can come out and do governance workshops on as well. If it relates to governance, we can come out and do a workshop on it. So when we are talking about the roles and responsibilities of a school committee member, this is a refresher for all of you because you've all taken charting the course, right? So this is a a definite refresher. On the left we have the committee. The committee's role is governance. You are the means. You're the mission, the vision, the goals, the policy, the budget. Um you are the what, the why, and the how much. The example I very often give in charting the course is you have decided that it is important for your second graders to be able to communicate through
008the written word. It is important because they need to be on par with their peers. You have created a policy that says this is important to us and in the budget you allocate we'll say $100. Hold the thought on that. So you are the bridge between the community and the superintendent. And that doesn't mean that the community does not um communicate with the superintendent, but you are the superintendent's boss. The superintendent has one boss, the body, and the body has one employee, the superintendent. So you are the bridge between the community and the superintendent. You authorize by your vote and you monitor. So on the flip side there, we have the superintendent. Your superintendent is your management. Dayto-day boots on the ground, kids on buses to school safely, everyone has the appropriate learning materials, back
009home safely. Your superintendent is your chief operating officer. Your superintendent is the methods, the strategies, action plans, regulations, and procedures. They are the how, the who, the when, and the where. So, if we go back to my example of um you know that your second graders need to be able to communicate through the written word because they need to be commensurate with their peers. They also need to be um adhering to the core frameworks, etc. And you have allocated $100 in your budget. Your superintendent then takes that $100 and says, "Okay, here are the Massachusetts frameworks that we need to adhere to. This is the curriculum we are purchasing. These are the pencils we are purchasing. These are the teachers I am assigning to those classrooms." Halfway through the year, the superintendent says, "You know
010what? Pencils aren't working anymore. I think we need pens." That is within their authority. So, you have told them what, why, and how much. And then the superintendent is in charge of the how, the who, the when, and the where. Um, they are the bridge between the staff and the committee. Back to the body has one employee. Your only employee that you are directly supervising is the superintendent. Um, and then they are the bridge to the rest of the staff. So when we look at this, it's actually that it starts on the superintendent side very often with recommend and then we go to you for authorization through the vote properly posted meetings. We go back to the superintendent to implement. That's your handbooks, that's your protocols, that's your day-to-day and then come back to you
011for monitoring. Do we need a new policy? Do we need to update our budget? All of that. So by the way, I don't mind if you want to interrupt with questions. Please do so. We will go I'm getting the steps in tonight. Okay. So, my next slide is generally about what it's like as a committee member ver as a committee versus an individual member. So, I like to start on the individual member side. No one individual member has any more power or authority than any other member at the table. Doesn't matter if you're the chair, the vice chair, the secretary, one member, one vote. Um, you have no greater power than any other qualified voter. You are also only able to affect change through properly posted meetings and votes at those meetings. So, you can't
012promise someone something. You cannot write thing, write policies by yourself. you can't tell people this is what's going to happen. Um, you are supposed to comm contribute to and communicate the vision and the mission of the district. Um, you're supposed to ask the critical questions. Now, I'm going to stop there for a second and jump to you support the committee decisions. I just said you ask the critical questions, but you also support the committee decisions. Um, we like to talk at MASC about no surprises. That doesn't mean we don't ask questions. What that means is if you really want an answer to a question, you let someone know before you get to the meeting. Hey, we're going to be talking about pencils on Monday night. I want to know, are the green pencils more effective
013than the blue pencils? Can you please bring that information to the meeting? So, you as an individual member, you want to make sure that you're asking the right questions and letting people know that you're going to be looking for those answers so you can have fruitful discussions. Um, and then you are dedicated to the work on behalf of all students. I have two students in my district that I serve on the committee for. I'm not there for them. I am there for all students. We are here for all of our students. So, on the flip side, the committee only exercises power through proper official action at properly posted meetings. If you didn't vote on it, it does not take effect. Um, we also want to make sure that you understand that you govern through policy.
014Policy is one of your primary ways that you enact change in the district. Policy doesn't just mean your policy manual, though, and I know we're all working on the policy manual right now. Policy is everywhere. Policy is reflected in your budget. Your budget is your biggest policy document. You fund what you value. Your handbooks reflect your policies. Your collective bargaining agreements reflect your policies. the procedures that this that the superintendent and their design um develop in the district those should be reflective of your policies as well. So your policy is actually speaking for you everywhere but you govern through policy. You are also the stewards of the financial resources of your district. Um that means that you yes you are responsible in the end for that final budget, but you're also responsible for things like
015um hearing reports and signing warrants and um if there's an audit that comes through. If there are cost center transfers, you approve those. If there are grants or donations, you approve those as well. Um you engage the community. Hopefully you are, and I know this is one of the things that was flagged. you hopefully you are hearing from your stakeholders. You can as a school committee also send representatives out to stakeholder groups. Um I sit on the board of our local cable access television channel as a representative of my school committee because we have a TV media shop. So they want a good relationship with a local cable cable access television channel. So I go there and I listen to them and I have input on behalf of Nova Tech. Um, and then you sustain
016the school committee superintendent relationship and you are the employer of record on all collective bargaining agreements. And during charting the course, I keep threatening to have that Pee-Wee Herman scream sound every time we say that because we say it a lot. Any questions so far? Okay. So, as the school committee, you are the municipal legislature for your district. When you think about Methuan, Mthuan has its own municipal legislature. The school district of Methuan, you are the municipal legislature. So the parallels are there. Um, you determine the operating protocols. You establish the rules for you. That's the policies, your policy manual primarily. You hire the chief executive. So you hire the superintendent. Um, you originate and set the budget process. Now, originate is a little bit of a wishy-washy term there because most budget processes start
017with the administration and come to you, but you are part of that originating process where the budget eventually um comes through to you and you approve the expenditures. You have other special duties as set by state law. We'll get to those on the next slide. You are a public figure both legally and in all practical manners. When you are out in public, you can think you have taken your hat off. You never really take your hat off. You are always representing the school committee. Um, your meetings and actions are in public with very few exceptions. For you, that's executive session and those 10 reasons. And then you maintain the balance of power between the executive and the municipality. So that's where you supervise the superintendent and you evaluate the superintendent. That's the maintaining the balance
018of power. So when we talk about your other duties including but not limited to um there are a bunch of things that come up that are I know we've talked about some of them in policy. You serve your constituents. School committee is one of the only elected official positions where your largest constituency can't even vote for you because you represent the students. They can't vote for you but you represent them. Um, you have limited additional hiring responsibilities. When we do charting the course, we talk about those advising consent positions. The head nurse, the head doctor, the district legal counsel, um, you have school business official, your special education director, whatever those titles are. And then some districts still have a truency officer that's on the list, too. I don't know what that not many districts
019do. um you are part of the goal setting and strategic planning process. So not just the superintendent goals but a very effective thing for school committee goals to do school committees to do is have their own goals and that's something we can talk about later on too where you would set your own goals and your evaluation of your goals you could mimic the same cycle as the superintendent so it keeps everyone on track everyone sort of rowing in the same direction. um you review the school improvement plans. You don't approve them, but you do review them. So, the school improvement plans originating with the buildings and it should all domino out from the district improvement plan and your mission and vision. You are aha here it is again the employer of record for all collective
020bargaining agreements and you retain the district legal counsel. It's important to understand that it is a Massachusetts general law that the school committee retains legal counsel for the district. Legal counsel for the district, works for the school committee. The the administration avails themselves of that legal counsel, but you are responsible for hiring them. You have a question? Yes, school improvement plans come from the individual buildings. School councils review them, but it's usually the principal of the building that starts them. They should all be in line with the district improvement plan. You review them because you want to make sure that the district goals are all aligning the way they should. You're not approving them, though. They come from the buildings. Go ahead. So most districts do not rely on the city or the town attorney.
021They have their own. >> Yep. >> Oh. So just to repeat myself for public um so that when it comes to um hiring our attorneys that will choose for private attorneys or hiring the city attorneys, it would be up to us to approve that. >> Massachusetts general law says school committees hire their legal counsel. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> Get you the citation on that later. Um, so your other duties that are included but not li including but not limited to, you have approval over a whole slate of things. You approve the handbooks. If it is a handbook that has disciplinary action in it or it's a 9 to12 handbook, you approve the handbooks. They don't originate with you and you're not going line by line in every single handbook. Generally what happens is there
022will be an update to the handbook. You approve the changes and then the handbook goes out. But you do approve the handbooks. you approve fees um and any fee schedules. You must approve all grants and gifts to the district. Grants do not originate with the school committee. You're not applying for grants, but when a grant is applied for, you have to accept it because a grant is a contract. It's your district saying, "We're going to do this thing in exchange for this money, and that is part of your responsibility. So, you need to approve all grants and gifts." Go ahead. Does that include the ones coming from the federal government like? >> So, it does, but here's the trick to that. You approve those as part of the budget process. You don't have to pull
023out the separate grants that come from the federal government. They're included in your budget every year, and that's how you approve them. >> Alicia, we have two sets of handbooks to correct staff and students. >> Yes. So, you also um you review the strategic plans. Again, you're not voting on them, but you're reviewing them. Um, you have to approve all overnight and outofstate field trips. So, if you have kids leaving the state or if you have the kids staying somewhere overnight, that has to be approved by you. You approve the calendar. Um, sometimes there are things in the collective bargaining agreements about start dates. So, that would be reflected in your calendar, but ultimately the school committee has to approve the calendar every year. Um, and you are responsible for new or substantially different job
024descriptions. So, if you have an assistant superintendent in charge of transportation and you want to turn them into an assistant superintendent in charge of curriculum, that is a substantially different job description and you would need to approve the change. If it's something minor, changing someone's title from assistant superintendent to director, that's not necessarily something you would approve. Um, but if it is substantially separate, uh, substantially different, it has to come to you. And please note that this is not an exhaustive list. There's always new and exciting things that are popping up. So, any questions before we talk about operating protocols? That's sort of my basic refresh rundown of roles and responsibilities. Okay. So, operating protocols, a quick search of your district website tells me you guys don't have operating protocols. Not unusual. Um, it is
025becoming more common for districts, for school committees to have operating protocols. I can tell you my first district didn't have any until we had Darthothy Presser come out. Darthy Presser is the um irreplaceable field director that I replaced. She came out to my district and she did an operating protocols workshop with us and it was gamechanging. So, >> it is not it is just a best practice. you can move forward without operating protocols because your policy manual does include a lot of things that the operating protocols would reflect. Um, you don't have to have them, but it's a it's one of those things where you agree upon it in the beginning of the year. It says this is how we will communicate with each other and we all agree to it and we hold each
026other to it. >> So operate Oh, sorry. Go ahead. >> Would that include a mission statement? >> You could. >> Okay, >> you could. Um so I have given you in your packets some examples of operating protocols from other districts and many of them start with we believe and a a belief statement. I can tell you that my Nishoba Tech we are currently working on our operating protocols and our operating protocols reflect our um portrait of a graduate. >> So our operating protocols have five principles because that's what our portrait of a graduate has. responsible, resourceful, resilient, resp um respectful, ready. So, our operating protocols have those five words as part of our vision statement and ready is the last thing we have because we are ready because we want them to be ready. >>
027So, yes, predates me. Love that about them. Go ahead. >> I just want to clarify because I know it'll come up in the future. When we say operating protocols, we're not topping talking about standard operating procedures out in the field. We're talking about operating protocols of our school committee and between us and the superintendent. >> How we talk to each other, how we get information, how we set meetings, all of that. It is your rules of the road. >> Yep. Just wanted to clarify. >> Yes. So, operating protocols are they are the set of ground rules. They are preconditions that you all agree upon. Um, one of the most effective things and you'll see a slide later about this. Um, one of the most effective things that school committees can do is once you've decided
028on them, you vote them in an open meeting, you all sign them with the superintendent and then you put them on your website. You can have them available at your meetings. There are districts that attach them to their agendas so that everyone can see them. It is your operating protocols for for you. Um, they are definitely a document that can be used for self-evaluation going forward. Like I said, you can set goals for the school committee. You can also have your operating protocols be your self-evaluation. When you check in at that formative assessment midway through the superintendent cycle, you can check in with yourselves. Are we adhering to to our operating protocols? How are they work working for us? Does this window of time that we have in our operating protocols for when we need
029to request agenda items, is that working for us? Do we need to expand it? There's always room to use that document as part of your self-evaluation. >> Yes. Is there a an example like you know Jesse gives us a rubric to go off of the evaluation. Is there an example like that for school committee operating? >> Yes, on our website. I just edited it the other day. So I gave you some examples from other districts and some of those districts base theirs directly off of ours. So there's a couple of different approaches in your packet. So operating protocols are not a way to stifle dissent or disagreement. They are not a way to shut down people being able to ask questions. They are not a way to shut down free speech. If used correctly, operating
030protocols can actually make sure that everyone gets a fair shot at expressing themselves and asking what they need to ask. So, they are also not a way for the majority to control the minority. They are not a way to control information. Again, if done correctly, they are a way for information to get to you more effectively. Um and they are not a way to limit communication beyond the open meeting law. You have to adhere to the open meeting law. But operating protocols are not a way to limit communications. So as a general rule, they should include a an opening statement. It can be a statement of purpose, um a statement of vision. >> We very often have um my district does this. On the back of our placards is our mission statement for the district.
031And that mission statement is reflected again in the portrait of a graduate and in the operating protocols. The mission statement is right there. Um your conduct of business. How do we get information? How do we share information with each other? How do we request information from the district? Operating protocols very often include things like um members shall channel all requests for information through the chair and the superintendent because the superintendent supervises the rest of the administration. So you're not going into the administration, you're going through the superintendent. Um operating protocols very often include things like standards of conduct and scope of responsibilities. There's an example of operating protocols in your packet that talks about what the committee actually has control over. We get to talk to you guys at Charting the Course. We get to
032come out and talk to you for these things. We don't get to tell the public very often what it is school committees can and can't do. So, in your operating protocols, outlining what your actual range, what your purview is is actually super helpful because it helps preload the public with information about how they're going to engage with you as well. Um, operating protocols very often include standards of conduct. I have included in your packet our MASC member ethics. Um, that is an example from us. You can draft your own. You can adopt ours. A lot of districts have ours as one of their policies. Um, but standards of conduct, we treat each other with respect. Um, everyone has a chance to speak before someone speaks for a second time. That's actually kind of Robert's rules,
033but you can put it in your operating protocols. Um, and then it operating protocols very often talk about staying on track. We will hold each other accountable. We will check in once a year. We will develop goals once a year. That sort of thing. So operating protocols are your rules of the road, but you can tailor them to what you need most. So a note about communication and operating protocols. I have also given you our guidance on social media for school committee members. Um one of the things that many districts will put in their operating protocols is that communications pathway. So when we talk about who speaks for the school committee, the chair is generally the spokesperson for the school committee. That doesn't mean that the chair is opining on things before the school committee.
034It means that the chair is the primary point where um if someone were seeking information, the chair could speak for the committee and say that is on our agenda on this date. Our budget hearing is on this date. Um, there are some school committees that have in their operating protocols what that chain of command looks like. What does the chair do for the committee if the chair is going to speak or in some cases the vice chair? Um, because sometimes when the mayor is the chair, the vice chair becomes the communication pathway. We all have those events where something happens in the district and you suddenly have an influx of emails that are all saying exactly the same thing. and you don't want people to think you're ignoring them, but you can't necessarily have seven
035answers to all 30 emails. You can designate in your operating protocols that when something like that happens, the chair or the vice chair could say, "Thank you for reaching out to us on behalf of the school committee. We are taking up this topic on this agenda at this date and time. We hope you'll join us then to express your opinion." So, the chair or the vice chair can speak for the committee when it's justformational. doesn't mean you can't also, but it also helps to make sure that everyone is getting a response. Um, communication pathways around social media posts. Your operating protocols can help you be very clear about what the district posts. The district speaks for the district. The school committee speaks for the school committee. Um, you should also be very cautious, and this
036is in one of those handouts about social media and your individual postings. We at MASC will always tell you to air on the side of caution when it comes to all of the new and exciting ways we can violate open meeting law. Um, do not express opinions on social media in such a way that you express an opinion, someone tags her, you like it, someone tags you, you express an opinion, you have just created chain deliberation, you didn't even know you did it. So be careful when communicating on social media that you only speak for yourself that you're not putting out there I have decided this because your decision should be in this room and only be informational. Share things informationally. We're discussing that tomorrow night. Here's where you can find that information. When we
037talk about the roles and responsibilities of school committee members at charting the course, we always say policy budget superintendent. There is a secret fourth role of the school committee member and that's knowing where to send someone when you are not the person they should be talking to. So understanding where you should be sending someone to get the information they need to get the help that they need. Um and then remember what your role is in public that you have policies that dictate um how the board functions that you only speak for yourself that you never make promises on behalf of the committee. So jumping to my next slide around operating protocols um and we can talk a little bit more about specific operating protocols in a minute but around operating protocols we do recommend that
038you in a meeting announce that you have developed operating protocols. Um, a lot of your self-evaluation talked about how you get information and how you share information with each other and knowing how to, um, having good timelines for information, having good timelines around communication. Um, announce that you've done it. Once you're done with the work on operating protocols, announce that you've done it. Um, vote on it in a meeting. Post the protocols. Have everyone sign them and post them. You should do check-ins a couple times a year. You should reexamine your operating protocols every year when you impanel a new school committee. That's the time when you should have new operating protocols. So I know you guys have November elections and you seat in January. So maybe we start talking about this now and in
039January you develop operating protocols for your next school committee. Um you remind one another when things are off track. Um the chair is often the person you know the chair is the servant of the assembly we say. So the chair is usually the person responsible for making sure everyone stays on the same track. So this is an one of the examples of the operating protocols. I will admit to a little bit of personal privilege here. This is my original district. I am not one of those signatures, but this is the Westford School Committee. Um and this is the operating protocols they had a couple years ago where they used ours as the basis. So they talked about how we serve our schools, how our meetings work, how we communicate, and then they all signed it.
040And they are very good about checking in with each other and making sure they're staying on track. That is based on our um operating protocols document, but there are many others in there that you can um take a look at. >> I have a question. >> Yes. Um looking at the signatures and the protocol, do you have any um stories about what happens and when a member violates the agreed upon um operating protocols? I mean what what is the response, >> right? And how do you address that without we're all adults? >> Yeah. >> How do you address that? Generally, it starts with the chair. If there's a concern about someone not following pro following protocols, if there's a concern about someone um violating a policy by their behavior, um there's a policy on uh
041say you have so in your policy manual, say you have a policy on agendas that specifically dictates how agendas get set. If you have a member who is constantly coming in super late asking for something on the agenda, then that's an opportunity for the chair or the vice chair to have a conversation with them. Listen, this is not effective. We're not having good meetings because you're coming in too late. We have to post by, you know, the we have to post by the 48 hours. And if you want information from the administration, we have to give them enough time to get that information for us. So, generally, that is a conversation that starts with the chair or the vice chair and the member. If it keeps going, it can be a group discussion about operating
042protocols aren't working for us right now. How do we fix this? But it is for the most part at the beginning a conversation for the chair or the vice chair because if you've developed the operating protocols, everyone should be adhering to them. So yes, >> yeah, >> in that respect, um I mean that's not based off of opinion or that you disagree with something that I say. That's based off of you have violated this protocol. >> Yes. Quite literally. This is the time you were supposed to ask me to have something put on the agenda. You asked me two days late. It was too late. You need to fix that. >> It's not about someone's opinion. And then the other question I had um was regarding like the negotiations team. I'm pretty sure I know
043the answer to this um but if you don't agree with something that the negotiations team brought forward and then you're voting on the >> contract. >> Yep. >> You can still vote no. Correct. >> You you are always at liberty to vote no. >> Clarification >> when you we come to the other side. A lot of what we talk about when we talk about um committee behavior after decisions is that after the decision has been made by the majority, it is incumbent upon the school committee and it's in our ethics, our code of ethics, that you should support the decisions that were made by the committee. This does not mean you have to be super happy about it. This doesn't mean that you don't continue advocating for someone else for something else. An example I
044like to give is no one gets to the end of budget season and they're like, "Oh my god, we have all the money we need. We're funded for everything. This is awesome. Nobody does that. Budget season will have cuts. You may not agree with them, but once the budget is passed, you work within what you have and you continue to advocate for improvement later on. So, it's not about you have to vote yes with everyone. Disscent is where we grow. Discussion is where we grow. It's about making sure that you keep supporting the function of the committee and the district. Awesome. So my thought was I would open it up for questions now if you guys had specific questions about roles and responsibilities and if not I thought we would take a look at the
045protocols worksheet and just start having a quick discussion about some places where you thought you could have um some operating protocols in place. So are there any questions on roles and responsibilities? Okay, if you pop up with one, let me know. Interrupt me. I'm good with that. So, in your packet, you all have this. It's the MASC protocols worksheet, and we've broken it up to before the meetings, at the meetings, and then after the meetings. Sorry, between the meetings. So, let me grab a pen. I know, right? I know. I love it, too. I love a good list. Not that you could tell by what I do for a living. So, um, before the meetings, let's start with, um, does anyone feel like, just quick show of hands, developing and placing items on the agenda?
046Does anyone feel like that's something you need to improve on? Sure. If it's if it's you guys think it's good, it works. >> You can still put it in your operating protocols if you think it works. I'm just looking for the places where we might need to have attention on something. Um, so how about getting your questions answered before the meeting? Like if it's budget season and you want to understand better what the Title three grants are, do do you feel like you have a good process for getting your questions answered before meetings? Yeah. Okay. Um how about receiving supporting materials before the meeting itself? So that's your packet. Do you feel like you have enough time to get and review the packet? >> Yeah. So, let me ask you, what is the process for
047setting your agendas? >> How do your agendas get set? >> Vice chair or do you want >> the superintendent on there? And then they would like to put on the agenda emails on sometimes the agendas get too long. So, she'll say to you, I can't get it on this agenda. it will be on this particular meeting on this particular day and it gets put on that way. >> So does anyone meet with the superintendent >> to have like an agenda setting meeting? >> So not at this time though. >> Okay. >> That is one of the most helpful things for getting information ahead of time. If you can have a recurring meeting between I again we have the mayor's chair so there's a little bit of push and pull there. If the vice chair takes
048on the duty of setting the agenda with the superintendent. Um if you set the meeting in a time frame where not only can you request information but the administration gets enough time to know they're going to want to know these things about this subject. you can reverse engineer from when you want to post that meeting and then have that standing recurring meeting where you have your agenda setting. So, it does get your information to you a little bit more regularly. That also offers the opportunity for when you're setting the agenda to do exactly that. Um, it's October. We know we need to have our enrollment numbers in. We're going to have a presentation on that. Can I bump that presentation to the second meeting of the month? Sure. There's also something called a year-long agenda.
049love a year-long agenda. Um, it does not lock you into the only things you're going to talk about all year, but it does definitely tell you like, you know, that the enrollment numbers are October 1st. You know when your budget season is, you know, when you have to pass your budget by, you you know, you know when MCCAST results come out, if we're still taking MCCAST, you know, you know, there are certain things, you know, that can be plugged into an agenda that you can fit everything else around and that can be really helpful with that, too. That also makes it easier for people to understand when you're going to be looking for some of that information. >> So, I have a question. So, if if a community member has uh an item they would
050like placed on an agenda, it was my understanding that you would email the vice chair. >> Okay. >> Um but is that not the case? And we would email the superintendent. >> So, you need to put it in your operating protocols. whatever it is you're going to do, you need to put that into your operating protocols. And I will say that if a community member is looking for something to be put on an agenda, that may or may not be the appropriate path for what the community member is concerned about because remember, you can only discuss and deliberate things in front of you that you have authority over, right? >> So like we give the example all the time that someone comes to public comment and they want to talk about recycling. I want to
051talk about recycling too, but I am not the person who can fix it for you. So as long as it's something that is appropriate and is within your scope, it could be put on an agenda, but it may also be that that person needs to be referred to someone who can actually get their questions answered for them. So I would say again set up in your operating protocols what that path is. You guys get to determine it. >> Yeah. Are there instances where a sitting member may request something to be added to an agenda in which I don't know the the chair, vice chair, superintendent can turn around and say no. >> They could if the vice chair or the superintendent feels like one it's if you wanted to discuss a personnel matter on the
052agenda, you should not be doing that. There is a process for that and it is not you. So that should not be on your agenda. If you want to discuss accepting a grant and everyone says no, you can by a twothirds majority override the will of the chair or the vice chair by a vote and have something put on an agenda. But again, it has to be something that should come before you. You can suspend policy and or override a decision by the chair by a twothirds majority, but again, it has to be something that's appropriate to come before you. It should not be anything having to do with personnel. There's a process for that. It should not be anything having to do with the privacy of students. Um, it should be very limited in
053scope if you're pushing for something to be on an agenda that you're getting push back on. >> So, how does that play into request for special meetings? Because I know that was something that came up in conversation with the body months ago. Mhm. >> If one member requests a special meeting and that request goes through, I don't know if it's the chair or the vice chair, whoever it is, is there a requirement or a necessity or guide guard rails to say when and when when they should or shouldn't be moving those forward? >> So, there there really isn't a special meeting other than your budget hearing. There are not special meetings that are prescribed by law. You must have a budget hearing and that's a special meeting. Um, if there's something, say there's a policy,
054uh, an absolute, you know, burning issue, I'm gonna go with cell phones. I'm sorry. >> I may be using the term special meeting, but I I just mean any any meeting that's not in our ordinary course that we we put on this agenda. >> I would put it on the agenda and vote it. Um, if you wanted to be if you wanted it to be about a specific topic, you want to hear from the committee if it's the will of the committee to have that meeting. If it's something like a new policy that can be, you know, you're going to have a whole line of people for public comment, maybe you want to have a special meeting for that instead. The committee would vote to have that special meeting. >> Yeah. And it's in the
055chair's best interest to put it on the agenda so the committee can talk about whether or not there is an appetite for it and have the committee vote on it. Go ahead. >> So, the request would be made during new business or something like during a public meeting and not through. So, I had made a request for a public uh a special meeting with a few agenda topics. It was denied. I didn't realize that I had to discuss it with the majority of the committee to see if they would agree to a special committee. I was misinformed. I I misunderstood. >> It's complicated. >> So, I think that's where it stems from. So, if if we are requesting a special meeting, it has to be during a general meeting, say during new business. >> Yes.
056It would be a new business item on the agenda. >> Good job. >> Member Maxwell would like to discuss having a special meeting on XYZ. >> Perfect. >> And then you would talk about it and vote as to whether or not there was appetite for the from the committee. Yeah. >> Listen, there's this is a complicated process. I do this for a living and there are still plenty of times where I have to stop and go, wait a minute. Okay. Yes, that's how that happens. Things happen. We are all working. We are all doing our best to try and make sure everything is happening the way it should. It's not, you know, it's not something that you can't go back and remedy through future behavior. So if something goes ary, oops, we try and fix
057it on the other side. >> Y. So let's move on to during the meeting. So at the meetings. So, it says boardroom layout, but this is sort of your layout. Um, how do you guys feel about this space? Does this space work for you? Do you feel like it's conducive to discussions? >> Yes. >> So, one of the feedback, one piece of feedback I've received is that the superintendent and the assistant superintendent have their back to the audience. I personally have never thought anything about that, >> but that came up a couple of weeks ago in like a conversation at a door. So, like I don't know how we would change that, but like I can see why someone sitting in the room might not like that. >> Yeah. >> But also I don't know
058if that's something worth changing. >> Go ahead. So something here is that this is our meeting and so we need to be in circle to be able to have a meeting and this is our meeting and just because people are here watching our meeting it's still our meeting it's not their meeting >> and so I would I would >> I get it >> I'm okay with their backing to it >> it's a public it's open to the public not a public meeting. >> It's a business meeting of the school committee in public, >> not a public hearing. Public hearings are different. >> A school committee meeting is a business meeting of the school committee in public. So, yes, I I can understand why that would feel strange to the audience, but if you felt like
059it was more conducive to your conversation to have yourselves facing each other, then you know that's what works for you. And I would assume that I'm looking at the camera now. I'm assuming that the camera can view all of this. It's mostly the in the room settings >> where it gets a little weird. >> Okay. Something to think about though when you're thinking about how people are engaging with you. >> Um, how about the structure of the agenda? You guys feel good about the agenda? >> Yes. >> There you are. Yeah. >> Yes. Um, how about the length of the meetings? >> Yes. So, >> we actually have a session coming up at the conference called do we have to meet until midnight? >> The answer to that question is no. I just saved you
060all tickets to the conference. Um, yes. >> We don't have any money, so that's good. >> So, I would say having operating protocols, having those structured agenda setting meetings that will help um having a year-long agenda that will help with the length of the meetings. But yes, if length of the meetings is, you know, you hit that two hour mark and everyone starts to get a little fuzzy. So I would say that's definitely something that through your operating protocols you should work on. >> Four hour mark. >> Yep. That too. Um, how about deliberation at meetings? Do you feel like you have in your 4hour meetings adequate time for everyone to be part of the conversation? >> I think we have adequate adequate time to be part of the conversation. And I I've made this
061comment to the chair in the past. I think the chair needs to be better about controlling >> the conversation. Sometimes there's just added speaking for speaking purposes. >> Yep. >> I don't think we need that. >> It so we we do offer role of the chair for chairs which is a little like we have a couple webinars things like that. Um the chair should be the person in control of the meeting. The chair is the servant of the assembly. They should be making sure that your meeting is efficient. Again, they're not stifling anyone. They're just making sure that things are running smoothly. You need to be able to do the business of the district at your business meeting. So, the chair is responsible for making sure that moves forward. So, maybe that's something that needs
062to be in your operating protocols as well. >> Yes. Do a lot of the school committees you work with have a timer? Um, you know, like every member has two minutes to address an issue. >> I have not seen a timer for that. Okay. Well, welcome to a third one where we've had that because we do tend to >> You absolutely can. >> Okay. I was just curious if everyone else does it and um I don't know how effective that is, you know, like sometimes I feel a need, oh, I better fill my I better use my two minutes. Yes. Or five. >> Yes. >> Um Okay. That's >> up to you if you wanted to if you felt like it was helpful. >> And that would be in our >> It would be in
063your operating protocols. Yep. >> Okay. >> And most of your meetings are conducted by Robert's rules. school committees operate with Robert's under Robert's rules with exceptions um just because there are other things that happen at school committee meetings that Robert never thought were was going to happen. So Robert's rules is generally the guide for that and it does talk about how everyone should speak for I believe it is two minutes in Robert's rules and that everyone should speak before someone gets everyone should have the opportunity to speak before someone else does. Um so how about staff presentations? Do you feel like they are too long, not long enough, not frequent enough? You feel like there's any issues with that? Do you feel like you get the information you need from staff presentations? >> Sometimes. >>
064Yeah. So, I think that communication and info sharing, how you get the information, preparing for the meetings, making sure that the agendas are set in a way that you can get that information ahead of time will help that too. >> But I also think that's going to change school committee to school committee >> 100%. because we've definitely tweaked things in our tenure and in January when a new group sits here they're going to start from zero again. >> You review them every year though you said right operating >> every year I would say this is a great conversation for us to have right now >> every group's going to have their own little tweaks. >> Yeah, I would say in January that school committee should set operating protocols. >> I think this is a great
065conversation for us to have for between here and January. But yes, they should set operating protocols. Go ahead. I think um part of our protocols need to say for staff presentations that you should email your questions about the presentation beforehand >> so that the conversation is fruitful >> whereas if you if you come in with questions they don't have the answers for you so it makes the conversation useless >> and that's exactly what we mean by no surprises >> but if I don't have my question before the meeting >> you can send you the so what can happen is you and send questions to the superintendent that you will have that night. You're not looking for the staff member to answer your questions via email. What you're saying is, I'm going to ask questions about
066um this group of students um this group of disadvantaged students, how they performing in the math portion of the MCCAST. Please understand that I'm going to ask you that in the meeting so the staff member comes prepared. You're not looking for emails directly to you. You're saying this is what we would like your presentation to include. But what if I have a question that I didn't submit beforehand? Is that considered a no surprise? I mean, >> no, you can definitely ask it and you can say, I, you know, you may not have the answer to this question. If you need to come back to me with the answer later, that's fine. >> It's it's not about always asking questions that someone knows you're going to ask. It's about making sure that when they get into
067the room, they have as much information as humanly possible to have a good discussion. And then anything else that needs follow-up needs followup. That's absolutely 100% appropriate. So, how about technology devices at the meeting table? Do you guys have trouble with people on their cell phones, things like that? So, I can tell you that's part of my district's operating protocols. At the beginning of our meeting, our chair says, "Could everyone please silence their devices and put them away?" You want to be very careful about using a personal device at the table during the meeting. Um, there was a school committee, it was Boston, who got in trouble because two members were actually texting each other during the meeting and someone filed an open meeting law violation on them. Have your conversations in the room at
068the table. Everyone has family things that may pop up. If you see something that pops up, step out, address it, come back, and that can be reflected in the minutes. But I would say you can definitely put it in your operating protocols as well that we expect everyone to silence their phones and put them away. Make sure you're on only the Do you guys use laptops in your meetings? >> I was gonna ask that if I mean if if I don't have a laptop and I'm using my Google Docs, >> you know, I should be able to pull up my phone and get my Google Docs, >> which >> if you can have a computer next to me, I should be able to have a phone. >> Yes. The point is not you can't have
069access to technology. It's don't be using technology for things that are not the meeting. >> I agree. Yeah. So, >> we shouldn't be communicating with each other or other people during the meeting because >> you shouldn't be taking phone calls. You shouldn't be taking text messages from someone who's watching the meeting and wants you to ask a question, >> right? >> It's not how that works. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yep. Happens all the time. >> I'm glad people are watching. >> That's true. That's true, too. >> Yeah. >> Um, so how about bringing up new ideas? We did talk a little bit about how you get things on agendas and having a better process for that. So, bringing up new ideas. You good with that one? Why is my Speaking of devices? Um, how about
070springing surprise items or questions? We have talked about this multiple times now. It's about making sure that you get the best information in the room to make the decision. Questions in the room, that's your job. You're supposed to ask questions. So, questions in the room are appropriate. Just try to make sure you get to the room with as much of the information ready to go as possible. um explaining no votes. So, do you when do you guys ever have issues when people are wording motions, what the motion means? >> Sometimes. >> Yeah. >> Sometimes it's just how they want to present the motion or how they do it. But >> I think we're pretty good with that when we're like we help each other out how we're the motion. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um
071Yes. So when you say explaining no votes, I took that to mean, you know, we're voting on it's the budget and someone votes no. >> Yep. >> That person is not obligated in any way except, you know, maybe to explain to our constituents why they voted no. That's what I thought that meant. >> And you're absolutely correct. Um I I think it's more understanding what the motion >> Yep. what the motion is. But yes, let's we can also talk about that because no, you don't have to explain your vote. You would eventually have to explain your vote to at the ballot to your constituents. But no, you don't necessarily have to explain your no vote. It should be clear in the discussion, >> okay, >> what concerns were, but no, you don't have to say,
072well, I'm voting no because you can just vote yes or no. >> Okay. >> Um allowing the majority to set the direction for the district. Do you feel like you end up even after all the discussions at a consensus of where the majority is? >> Yeah. We do usually all get there. Okay. So, between meetings and we have talked about a lot of this. So, individual members requesting information from the superintendent. Um that is something that when you're talking about those agenda setting meetings um and your operating protocols, you should talk about what it looks like, how members get information. We try to say that information requests should be funneled through that chair and superintendent point. That doesn't mean that members don't talk to the superintendent. What I mean is members who want to ask
073questions should be asking the superintendent, not the other administrators. because again you only have one employee, the superintendent, and the superintendent only has one boss, all of you. So in your operating protocols, it's usually a good idea to set up um how members will ask things of the chair, things getting on the agenda, requests for information, um and how members may reach out to the superintendent with questions or concerns, and then how that would get back to the meeting. So that's a good place for your um operating protocol protocols to address that. Yep. Um and then individual members requesting action from the superintendent. Again, operating protocols, there should be a clear path. You speak you, the superintendent responds, sorry, the superintendent is um your employee. Therefore, that is the the touch point for the rest
074of the district for you. You're not necessarily going out into the district asking into the administration asking for things. There are exceptions. If you're on the finance subcommittee and you're working with the school business official and you are working on um something having to do with the budget presentation, you may be having a conversation directly with them. That's part of the normal operating business of that subcommittee. Doesn't mean that you're never going to talk to the administration. It just means that you want to make sure that you're funneling most of that through that point of the chair and the superintendent. >> Does that make sense? Yes. >> I'm sorry. I feel like I have so many questions. >> Okay. So, back to requesting information from the superintendent. Is there ever a time and when I
075would be I could ask for information that was not related to our three main responsibilities. >> I'm going to go with that depends. >> Okay. Tell me more. So you may be asking, so you may want to ask the superintendent to explain, hey, can you just explain to me how your staff finds grants that they want to apply for? What does that process look like? >> Okay, >> that's a conversation. You can definitely ask that question to understand better. >> You can't go to the superintendent and say, >> "I heard this teacher did this thing. I want to know what disciplinary action you've decided to take." because that is not your responsibility. The superintendent is responsible for all of the personnel in the district. So it depends on what the subject is. If you're asking
076something that's, you know, I want to understand better how this works. I want to understand better this thing that happens. You can ask the superintendent that. >> Okay. But we like on the discipline piece, we also get information though on discipline the data. >> You do sometimes. Yes. >> Yeah, we do. we have >> and you can talk about that at a high level. You cannot talk about individual students. >> Okay? >> You cannot talk about individual staff. >> Does that make sense? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, yes, clarifying questions to the superintendent. You should have a good relationship with your superintendent. >> You should be able to ask things like, "I don't understand what the title three grant covers. Can you explain that to me?" >> Sure. Absolutely. >> Yes. So what about meetings
077like that my last five years there'd be certain situations where I requested that school committee members should be in certain meetings. could be with the mayor and the superintendent just so not us like being not just part of the conversation but we understand what the conversations were about >> because sometimes it could be misconstrued what one the mayor might say the superintendent might say. So I said to avoid all these problems, school committee members should be in these meetings as like a an observer or give their interpretation. So when they come back here, we could say, hey, I was in that meeting and this is what happened. Could we set up the protocols in that sense of like this is when I want the superintendent to meet so we can have be there. So, is
078the superintendent meeting with the mayor or is the superintendent meeting with the chair who is also your mayor? >> Yeah. >> Right. Yeah. >> So, here's the thing. >> You hire a superintendent because you want to have them be the chief executive officer of the district. The superintendent should be able to meet with their administrators and come back and report to you. That shouldn't be something that school committee members should be in those meetings because you should not be supervising the other employees in the district. If it's something like an agenda setting meeting, that could be the chair, the vice chair, and the superintendent. Um, it's entirely possible you could do that. You could have multiple members in that meeting. But I would say that for the most part, whatever would be discussed in a
079meeting between a member and a and the superintendent should be on the agenda. I mean, you can meet with the superintendent and like I said, ask questions about what does a title three grant mean? The superintendent can explain that to you, but if you're meeting about something that's coming to you for deliberation, your deliberation should be here. So I think what I'm missing is what would be being discussed in that meeting that wouldn't be brought to the committee. >> Yeah. Just certain conversations that could be about capital improvement plans and all that. It's like well we should to when we go to deliberation we could only do a certain amount of time. >> Yeah. >> But it's like well what is the plan? And then sometimes we'll be voting on something. It's like well why
080why was this discussed? I can't >> Well, that's appropriate to have that conversation in the room. So, I would say like with a capital improvement plan, if you had a question about a specific item in the capital improvement plan that you were going to be voting on, you could let the superintendent know ahead of time, hey, I'm going to ask this question in the meeting and then the deliberation should happen in the room because you're not the only member who wants that information. The idea is that everyone gets the same information so that you're all making a decision from the same informed point. Okay? Go ahead. >> This will be my last one. I have been asked by staff members >> to go and maybe this is what you're referring to too. Sometimes I get
081asked by staff members to sit in on meetings. I know you giving me that look that involves a personnel issue and I Okay, so that's a no. and even parents who may have concerns and this about perhaps IEP. I would like a school committee member in that meeting that that I think that happens to all of us. >> So I will tell you I have two kids, one with an IEP, one with coming off an IEP going to a 504. No, as a school committee member, you are not supposed to get involved with individual students or individual personnel matters. It's act it can actually verge into an ethics violation. Here's the thing about personnel matters. There is a process by which it's the grievance process, right? If you hit the I think it's a level
082three, level four, it does eventually come to the school committee. That is not your responsibility on the ground level. You have one employee, the superintendent. They have one boss, the body. You should not be involved in personnel meetings at all. That is it can be an extreme conflict of interest and I would be very concerned if you said you were going to those meetings. I would also say you should never be involved in an IEP meeting. That's that super secret fourth knowing where to send somebody. If you have a parent, listen, none of us are in this room for reasons other than we want to help. You want to help. someone comes to you and says, "I have this huge concern." You're going to say, "I want to help you." Going to an IEP meeting
083opens you up to potential ethics concerns. That would not be appropriate. But knowing where to send that parent for more information, knowing where to send them to um the Bureau of Special Education Appeals, knowing how to send them to DESIE, knowing to send them to Massac or the Federation for Children with Special Needs, having more information for them is absolutely appropriate. attending the meeting. You should not do that. You 100% should not do that. And it's hard because you're looking at someone who's talking to you about their kid and you want to help. But knowing where to send them is better for everyone involved. Go ahead. Um, so I know that in the past I had requested um sitting in or a school committee member being able to sit in on something like exit interviews
084because we've been told that they don't happen in the district. Um, so that was my question. That was my intent with asking that question on sitting in on meetings. Yep. not necessarily to control the personnel issued, but to make sure that it was actually happening and being done. And then a second um request that I had made was a was a request on, you know, why we have 176 kids out of district. Um and the purpose for that was budget. I mean, it was just to see why do we have these kids out of district and how do we keep them in our district. >> So, I just wanted to make it clear that like >> Yep. Yep. >> the request. >> So, answering them in reverse order. Um, when it comes to out of
085district placements, >> if the team determines that that's what the team meeting for the IEP, if the team determines that that's what the student needs, there's nothing the district can do. >> Sure, >> it has to happen. You can ask in the budget process, are we doing anything in in district to maybe create programs or interventions that might keep more kids in district? You can have that conversation. You need to be very careful about not verging into an individual students identifying information, but you can have that conversation as part of the budget. >> But if it comes back that you know you requested this information and let's say 90 let's say 92 kids have um dyslexia and they just need specialized instruction, but in unfortunately we don't have that specialized instruction in this district and
086that's why they're out of district. The reason behind that question was like, okay, well, now we understand they have these needs and we need to bring someone into the district so we can service them. >> And that can be part of the budget discussion. Do we have the personnel? Do we have the capacity? Is this something you're looking into? What would that look like? >> So those requests are acceptable. >> It's to understand the financing of it. Yes, it's absolutely acceptable. Perfect. Yes. As far as exit interviews for personnel, >> y >> I would exercise extreme caution about that because you are not as school committee members supposed to be getting involved in individual personnel matters. >> I would say it's appropriate to ask as part of negotiations and collective bargaining what the employee sort
087of satisfaction level is. Why are we what's our retention issue? Are we having concerns with, you know, is parking at one building so terrible that everyone feels like they have to carpool and that like you can ask about what's leading to concerns by the staff as part of negotiations and contracts and things like that, but I would not be involved in individual personnel meetings. Not at all. >> Okay. So, can we this probably I probably already know the answer to. So, we could set up a policy saying the district is required to act do exit interviews. >> So, I'm going to put a pin in that and come back to you because I'm not sure that that should be a policy and I would want to know what is in your collective bargaining agreement about
088that because when you get on a granular level that feels like collective bargaining agreement language. Okay. Also like to point out because this is something we recently dealt with at work. You can't force someone to do an exit interview. >> Well, I was just going to say maybe we could make it an make make sure that the district is offering >> offering >> exit. And I think that's probably part of collective bargaining, >> not a policy. Because when we talk about policy and procedure, that feels like it's moving towards procedure. And I would say that's not even a procedure. That's part of collective bargaining. And then what gets gleaned from that? What gets, you know, the information that comes of something that would happen like that could inform you about what are we doing for
089teacher retention? What programs do we need to support? You know, are there things that we need to think about when we're negotiating to retain more teachers because this tells us that this is why they're leaving. >> Yeah. And the reason why I think about it is also to see why are they leaving? So us as a body can either if we have to make policy changes to help retain teachers or like I look at like I don't I don't know how we could get that data because without individual but we could get a percentage saying the exit interview say money was an issue or atmosphere was not so then we could direct those to the superintendent say these are what you need to do or when we get into collective bargaining we could say, well,
090okay, this is why we're losing teachers. >> We could get to that point. >> Yep. >> Just for this one, I'll chime in. >> Yeah. >> Um because we had this conversation, it's we have exit interviews in frontline right now and I think we talked about like we could gather data points from those surveys >> to share with school committee periodically as monthly reports. They're in there and they're active. Uh I would say right now we're at a 50/50. 50% are returning them and 50% are not probably right now. >> Cool. >> Yeah. >> Yes. So, what I'm gonna say is because you have 15 minutes before your next meeting and I want to give you a moment to take a breath. >> I've given you this worksheet. I think we've had a really good
091discussion tonight about a lot of the things on the worksheet. I think knowing that you have an election in November and you'll have some of you are leaving the committee. So, um maybe January is a good time to talk again about um protocols. You can do that. Very often a policy subcommittee will take up operating protocols because a policy full committee can charge the policy subcommittee with working on protocols and then bring it back to the full committee. But if that's something you'd like to do in January, let me know. Are there any other questions about the roles and responsibilities and the self-evaluation? There's definitely the opportunity to talk about in the future that um stakeholder feedback and superintendent evaluation. Um and when you wake up tomorrow and you go, "Oh, I should have asked
092this." Um my email address is there. You guys know where to find. >> I think that would have been a good topic for tonight since we're discussing the superintendent evaluation. >> Yes. Well, if you have any questions tomorrow, drop me an email. But yes. >> Oh, we have your number. >> Yeah, you have my number, too. >> I do. >> That's too You all do because that really is my number on the Yeah. >> When our field directors retire, they change their phone numbers. >> They do. All right. Well, it was wonderful talking to you all tonight. If there's any questions that I can answer in the future, let me know. And, you know, January or moving forward, if we want to do any other workshops, let's do that. >> All right. >> Awesome. Thank
093you very much. >> Thank you. I'll make a motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Motion by memberilius, second by member Daglio. All in favor? I >> I >> opposed. All right. The meeting is adjourned at 5:47 [Music] p.m. >> for our first >> not. Good night, >> Mthuan. Mhm. >> It's not the end of it. >> Oh, >> that's just [Music] Heat. [Music] Heat. [Music] Good evening. The school committee workshop business session of September 24th, 2025 will now come to order. This meeting is being recorded and will be made available for viewing on the Mthuan public schools website. Secretary, will you please call the role? >> Mrs. >> President, >> present. Keegan >> present. >> Maxwell >> pres. May I have a motion and a second to accept the agenda for September 24th, 2025 as
094presented? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Moved by member Daglio, second by membershill. Discussion. >> All in favor? >> I >> opposed. The eyes have it. It's unanimous. Please rise for the flag salute. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Um, we have one public participation, Alejandra Bayz. Good evening everyone. Um, my name is Alejandro Bayz. Well, that wasn't planned. My name is Alejandro Bayz, 152 Center Street in Mthuan. Uh, good evening to the honorable school committee, the madam superintendent, and everybody present at home. Uh I didn't prepare a statement today, but I did want to talk about a few things that I saw were quite important to today's
095meeting and also uh in continuation of some of the discussions that I brought forth beforehand. And one of the first things is that on the agenda today, there's a cover memo for the madam superintendent's goals. And in this cover memo, she wrote, and I quote, focus indicators. According to the Desi goal document, Desi recommends selecting six to eight focus indicators for the school committee to use during my uh summitive evaluation. I did not add any unlike previous years for the school committee can choose three can choose at their discretion indicators if desired. I believe that this is the right course of action and I applaud madam superintendent for doing for taking this course of action unlike previous years then and for listening to the school committee and for the to the community in doing this
096in this manner. Secondly, I'd like to address subcommittee meetings again. I attended a subcommittee this morning for the policy subcommittee and tried to record this meeting. I believe that as a public meeting the public has the right to these recordings to record and to have access to any recordings that the school committee or the district in in general does. I asked a subcommittee to allow recording from Zoom directly from Zoom and it was denied stating uh facts like we don't have a policy for subcommittee recordings or saying that this discussion isn't a part of the agenda so there can't be a discussion on enabling the capability of a constituent to record. So, I went about it and created a policy recommendation for recording subcommittee meetings and recordings and minutes in general. So, I'd like to
097take this time to read that out to you all for your discretion. And if you so choose desire to use this language in your policy review or in any other case, uh, please do so freely. Purpose. The Methuan School Committee affirms in its its commitment to transparency, public access, and accessibility to ensure the public has meaningful opportunities to follow the work of its subcommittees. This policy requires reasonable efforts to broadcast and record all subcommittee meetings and to make approved minutes available to the public in a timely manner. Policy one, broadcasting requirement. A all standing and ad hoc subcommittee meetings of the Mthuan School Committee shall make reasonable efforts to be broadcasted live via the city's designated public access streaming service or equivalent platform or B reasonable effort shall include timely coordination with authorized media partners
098as well as in advanced scheduling to secure coverage. Two, recording requirement. A. All subcommittee meetings shall be recorded in audio and video format regardless of whether live broadcast is available. B. Recordings shall be maintained as part of the official record of the school committee in accordance with state open meeting laws and public records requirements. Three, minutes requirement. A. Official minutes of each subcommittee meeting shall be prepared in accordance with the Massachusetts open meeting law. B. Once approved by the full committee, minutes must be posted to the official MDUN public schools website within a reasonable time. C. For the purpose of this policy, reasonable time shall mean no more than 30 days after approval unless exceptional circumstances are documented in writing by the subcommittee chair and reported to the full school committee. And four, accessibility and
099public availability. A. Recordings and approved minutes shall be made available to the public into the district's website or through an official city platform. B. Meetings shall be conducted in locations that accommodate recording equipment and public attendance. And five exceptions. A. In the event that technical, logistical, or emergency circumstances make broadcasting or recording unfeasible, the chair of the subcommittee must document the reasons in writing, which shall be reported to the full school committee at its next regular meeting. implementation. One, the superintendent or design shall coordinate with subcommittee chairs and authorized media partners to facilitate broadcast and recording. Two, the school committee secretary shall maintain custody of recordings, ensure compliance with state retention schedules, and oversee posting of approved minutes. And there's legal reference in my document that I'll be happy to share with the chair and
100with any other uh appropriate authorities for that case. Uh and lastly, what I wanted to address is my to say publicly my congratulations to the uh clerk of the school committee, Marta Soy for her retirement. Thank you for all your years of service. Uh I did have a question that I would like would be could be answered in on the record and that is despite uh the secretar's retirement um it has been stated that she will be staying on as the clerk for the school committee and earning an hourly wage. My question is does that mean that whoever is in that role is a public employee of the of the district or it is not? I'm a little bit confused on that and would love clarification whether on the record or on the outside. No
101matter who's in that position, I would just like to know if that person is still considered a district employee or not. Uh those were the three things that I wanted to address today. I thank everybody for their time for listening and hopefully the policy that I recommended here wasn't too much of a mouthful. I know that my mouth is dry already. Thank you all. >> Thank you. Is there anyone else who wishes to speak? >> If not, we will close public participation. If you cannot make a meeting in person for public participation, you can send an email to Susan Scotty at snsc nti mthuan.k12.mma. us before 300 pm on the day of a school committee meeting. Uh we are now moving on to the MHS band trip to Disney World. We need a motion and
102a second to approve the trip. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Motion is from member Shabilia. The second is from the vice chair. Do we have any discussion? >> So we have um >> presentation >> our uh band director Brian McGonagle with us. I did hand to you uh the revised. It just had an updated cost even since I I posted that on Monday. So they have that in front of them. I think it was just a bus cost that changed the total. So, it wasn't a hu it wasn't a huge change, but we wanted you to have that to make sure that that was uh viewed this evening. Thank you, Brian. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Uh good evening, school committee. Uh Dr. Kong, uh Dr. Gupsky, Tumi, uh thank you for
103giving me the opportunity to present the proposed ban trip to Florida uh for April 2026. uh since COVID uh we're now hopefully back on our regular two-year cycle of doing this trip uh since I've been band director since assistant band director in the year 2000. We've always done a trip to Disney every two years. Uh that changed when COVID happened two years ago. We finally got it back up and running. Um we've reached out to Kaleidoscope Adventures. Uh this is the company that we've worked with for many years before COVID and apps uh and after. They're an absolutely phenomenal company in every way. Um, and I can get into a little bit of that later. Um, Kaleidoscope has given us preliminary advice that the best travel would be Saturday, April 18th morning and a return
104to Methuan Wednesday, April 22nd in the evening for a 5-day trip. Um, we'll work closely with Kaleidoscope to try to get the entire group on one flight. Um, however, they have split up the flights before to save us money. So, we do know uh the procedures to do that and we are familiar with it because we've done that before. Um we do not check luggage or instruments on the flight to make the process as easy as possible. We truck the stuff down two days prior. Our band parents association drives down and meets us there with all of the equipment. So, the students just get right on the plane through TSA quickly, very smooth. Uh the trip itself is four days in the Disney parks and one day in Universal. Um, we will be requesting a
105parade performance in the Magic Kingdom as we've done in the past and that's pending Disney's approval. Um, we'd also be attending an educational session uh which students work with a professional Disney conductor in an actual movie sound recording studio. Uh, to save on costs, um, we've already discussed with Kaleidoscope that we would stay in a resort off of Disney property. Uh, that saves us a good chunk of money. We did this two years ago. It worked out well. The proposed resort this year is actually an upgrade from the one we stayed at two years ago at no additional cost. So, we're pretty happy about that if they can book that for us. Uh, private coaches all the time in Disney. We do not use Disney transportation. We have our own private coaches. A Kaleidoscope tour
106director is with us 247 from the time we land to the time we leave. They stay on site with us at the hotel. They stay with us in every park and they're available for any issues that arise 247. Private security is offered every night in the hotel and I get a report every morning. That report is usually blank, but we do have private security. Uh the trip adults consist of me, assistant band director Eric Poster, an administrator, which would be Charl Mancini, and a school nurse. Um as well as four to six adult chaperones. We usually try to pull those chaperones from the band parent association or fall staff that we have. Anybody that's super familiar with the program is who we try to get to go on the trip first. Uh right now we're
107quoted $2,417 per student. That's based on a quad occupancy room of 70 total people going. Uh two years ago the quote was $24.29. So, this comes in a little bit cheaper, but it's has not fluctuated much in two years, which is good. Um, we're also given the opportunity if we want to save $80 to $100 to do only Disney parks, but the students really pushed two years ago to do Universal. So, we included that in the current proposal, but we could take it off if we wanted to save more money. Um, I'll work with Cheryl Mancini and the Bandparents Association to create the fundraising opportunities, uh, as they've done in the past. We've done the Crispy Cream fundraiser, which brought us, I believe, between8 to $10,000 two years ago, which helped the students a lot.
108Um, payments are done online. Every student has their own portal. Um, and they're split up into five payments across the board. The first deposit's about $350 and that gets the company to book the flights and the buses, which is the hardest thing apparently to book. Um, I've worked personally with Kaleidoscope for over 10 years and I've worked with the same agent every time. So, this is a company that they're not like people aren't coming in and out. I've worked with this Joseph Haj um gentleman for over 10 years. Um, and so he's he knows our program. He knows what we need. Um, the second I emailed him, he had a proposal for me in like 48 hours. So, uh, they're a really great company. Um, they do an excellent job. Um, this will be, I
109believe, our fifth trip with them since 2015. Um, if approved this evening, uh, we'd move forward with a parent meeting next week to officially announce the trip with estimated cost. We'd get an accurate count of who's going. If we get more people, then the trip is cheaper. If we get less people, then they adjust the cost a little bit. It would be more expensive. But we can't move forward to get numbers until we get approval here. Okay. Does anyone have any questions? >> Member Keegan, um, excuse me, Member Maxwell, >> you do that often. Um, so my only question is, um, $170,000 is a lot of money. Are they able to fund raise? And are you offering it to all of the band kids? And what about the kids that are unable to fund raise
110and also unable to pay for it? Are we looking out? >> So the trip the trip is optional. Um it's not required obviously. Right. >> Um but we do our band parents association will have opportunities where the students can fund raise. Okay. Um, two years ago, the company offered um, a crowdfunding option where they could post online to have students donate to their account. Um, which is another option, but um, obviously we're going to pursue fundraising aggressively if we get approval. >> And is this um, >> Two more questions. Is >> any of it paid for by the district? >> No. >> Okay. Um and and are the kaleidoscope employees and the security that you'll have with you at all times is are those people cried? >> Are they what? >> Cried through us? >>
111Through us? No, I believe that they're through the company. >> So they don't need to be cried through us if they're going to be with our kids. >> I don't think so. I think it's a I'll check. I'll double check. >> Um there was one more question. Um maybe come back but I did have one more question. >> Okay. >> Remember Daglio? >> So um that the company that you're going through is it from Massachusetts or Florida? >> Florida. >> So they they might be just coreied through Florida. >> Correct. But our Corey policy says that anybody that is in direct contact with our kids needs to be coreied through us. >> Yeah. I'll double check. Yeah. Yeah. I was just I was just saying >> just about that. It was just a question. >>
112No, I was just that's why I was asking and saying that >> that's why we probably don't get their Cory's because they work through Florida but just >> member Donovan. >> I just want to make sure. Is this during school vacation? >> Yes. >> Okay. And I'm assuming no one from Kaleidoscope will be alone with a child. >> No. >> You know. Okay. Great. Thanks, >> Member Willlette. >> Can we explain the fluctuation and what was the time difference between because you're talking about a sizable increase from what was previously presented to us and what uh the revised version tonight. >> Yeah. So, because they did a quick turnaround, the gentleman that did it, he just didn't add the bus cost in. That's all. >> Okay. So if we um can reach that threshold of
113of 70 right participating will we be able to lock in that revised price because I'm concerned between now and >> you know you >> it depends on the airlines because I mean as you know like airline prices change two to three times a day. So like once they pay the deposit then they can lock in the airline. >> Okay. So there's an urgency to this and then Okay. >> Yeah. So they they try to lock in the most expensive things first that fluctuate which would be bus travel, uh airline and the hotel room because after that the ticketing and the food doesn't change in price at Disney. >> Okay. Because again it was it was a sizable difference in in the price. >> Yeah. No, that was just a calculation error. >> Okay. >> Yeah,
114we had noticed that too. >> Okay. >> And that's why we went back and asked them. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Thank you, Vice Chair. Um, it says here that the group qualifies for scholarship opportunities. Yes. Um, will you apply for those or do the kids have to apply? >> I believe the kids can apply for them if they want to, >> right? And that could help with the fundraising and reduce the cost. >> Um, I'm not sure if it helps with the fundraising. Um, I can look into that. >> Okay. >> But yeah, they've offered those scholarships each year to any student that attends the trip. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Any other questions? >> No. Mary Beth asked my question actually. All right. >> So, do we need a motion? >> Uh, so we
115we actually do. It's on the table. And so, at this point, all we need to do is take a vote. All those in favor? >> I >> opposed. The eyes have it. >> All set. >> Thank you. I appreciate it. >> Uh, next on the agenda, we have the transportation contract. We need a motion and a second to approve. >> So, moved. >> Second. >> Motion from member Shabilia, second from the vice chair. Uh, we'll entertain discussion. Um not sure if Dr. Kuang or Mr. Gosselin you'd like to share any information at the outset. >> Yeah. Yes. >> So before we entertain uh discussion or questions, I'll pass it off uh to share any other information, >> anything to share at the outset. >> Um I just just for the fact that we had removed
116this morning. Um, and I think I said it in my email to all of you, but I'll see it here. Uh, that was removed from the one that was sent on Monday. So, this contract has been reviewed by both parties at this point. >> Discussion. Member Maxwell. Does this include the new um ordinance on the school bus cameras that will be um happening? >> Yes, >> that's covered. Yeah, >> there's a I don't know which one it is, but there's language that includes that the bus company has to abide by all local ordinances. So, I've already I alerted them the day after the ordinance was passed. So, things are already in motion. >> So that in essence is a catchall. >> Perfect. >> Thank you, >> Member Wlette. So through the chair to the superintendent
117and uh Ian, the two items that have to be removed. Um, technically we would still be able to obtain that video recording and to address concerns within the dispatch center because if they go beyond a certain period of time that technically could be a breach of contract. So you would be still reaching out to them resolving issues. So there is language that let's say there there's a failure to release a video recording or there's such significant issues with the dispatch center that they're not resolving uh within the 21 business days we could send them breach of contract we could terminate the contract. Is that correct? >> I don't I'm going to look to member probably more with attorney McNel but um Yes, that still allows us to hold them accountable. Uh it was the cost
118value that was not part of the bid specs that we could add in the contract understanding. >> Agreed. >> Yeah. And again, I think we're light years ahead of the prior transportation contract. So we know if we have collectively concerns about this, we had a a consultant, we had a a subcommittee, we've had many meetings on this. Um, I mean, I'm concerned about the the CPI linkage to the COLA, but I'm hoping that the the current national administration is going to be more favorable to the national audience than the prior national administration on CPI. But I think overall I think this is a much better contract than what the previous vehicle was. So in totality I I have to support that. But I also want to emphasize I am concerned about that language that had
119to be removed. I understand the rationale for it. But there also is a mechanism within the contract itself that if they do a continuation or failure to produce a video recording or they have massive concerns with the dispatch center and not answering calls to residents that we could consider them within 21 days to be in breach of contract and we can void it. Is that correct? I don't know about the date part of it, but we still can hold them accountable. That was our discussion. Okay. So, yes. >> All right. And then also by voting for this contract, then we can proceed with something that I mentioned in the past of having the cameras on the stop arm extension that I know the mayor has been working on and councelor Sodto has been working on
120the >> ordinance. It's already passed, >> but we would have to do this contract in order that to have the implemented. I thought it was contingent upon passage of the Yes. >> everything related to NRT and everything else, but yes, the language is very clear in their NRT and go beacon know the language is in there and they have the actual ordinance. I sent it to them the day after the city council. >> Okay. >> And they're already in touch with the people who are going to be doing it. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> You're welcome. And just to help guide the discussion and I know we've had this conversation about contracts legal review was conducted by attorney McNelte. >> Correct. >> Yep. >> Uh so let's go keep going on for first
121round and then we can circle back for a second. Member Dunovan. >> Yeah. Just to clarify the equipment needed to comply with the new ordinance that is the responsibility of the bus company. >> Correct. >> Okay. So the city has no involvement in selecting or having that installed. consideration right now there's a group who is uh agreeing to do it free of charge to install okay >> I made that introduction between go and that gentleman and the company so they're already have connected there's some things that we might have to do I don't know what are all the next I know that one of the gentlemen emailed me I can't do anything until this contract >> gotcha I just I just didn't know how that all came together okay thank you >> it did all
122come together it's moving it's it's already process. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome, >> vice chair. >> This is just a a silly question. Um there's a line in here that says students riding together beyond 48 months of age between youngest and oldest will not be transported unless approved by the district. Our lower school has that already. So, do do we have to approve every single route that has kids that are beyond that? And I would assume that the high school could possibly have that too >> beyond 48 months of each other. >> I'm gonna say because you have the bus routes at K4 5 8 9 12. >> Okay. >> And you start going beyond that now we have problems. >> Right. I was just wondering like if you have like a
123kid who stayed back and you have one kid on a bus, do you have to like specially approve that and do we know that? Like are we looking at kids birthdays to see who's on the buses? like that just seems a little bit like a lot of >> in practice. In practice, um the bus company's been instructed that lower school buses are for lower school kids, middle school, upper is for upper and high school's for high school. If there's ever a situation, say, you know, a high school kid, this is a bus and there's one kid standing out there. When the upper school bus comes, they call my cell phone. >> They ask for my permission before they do anything. >> I understand. and depending on the situation and you know sometimes the child the
124answer to see the yes or no. >> Okay. >> So, >> all right. >> But but it's my decision not this. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Member Maxwell. >> Um so I had a lot of questions on the transportation contract for a couple weeks ago, but I sat with you and you addressed them all of them. Um, and some of them are actually changed, but the one that isn't changed, um, is 12.5. And I don't know that it needs to be taken out or anything, but it's repetitive of 12.5.1 and point.2. So, all accidents have to be reported immediately verbally. And then on five, it says that it has to uh the the official report needs to be submitted within 24 hours of the receipt. However, 5.1 and 5.2 say that it needs to be
125delivered um reported in writing no longer than 12 p.m. the following day. So, I didn't know if that was going to cause you issues with reports. >> I'm never waiting. I'm never in the waiting. Yeah. Um, accident reports come to me immediately by the police and the bus company usually. Um, and I have a written report as soon as I want it. >> Okay. >> Yeah, they're pretty responsive when it comes to the the accident reports. >> I don't think that's ever been an issue that we've had to bring up with our contacts at Go Beacon. That's not that's not one of the issues. >> Yep. >> Any other questions or discussion? If not, we'll vote. All those in favor? >> I >> opposed. Uh member Daglio from afar shouts I. >> So we'll record
126him as a yes vote. Uh so that is approved. We'll move on now to the next item on the agenda, which is the superintendent goals, uh which we set at around this time. Uh so at this point we need a motion and a second to approve uh the establishment of the goals here. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Motion from the vice chair, second from member Shabilia. Um for the purpose of discussion, uh I'll invite you superintendent to start um the outline regarding the school year 2526 draft goals. >> So uh a couple things. I do want to apologize. I think on the second page on the top it says August 28th, 2023. So this is the same template that has put out. So I apologize for that. Um but you'll see uh I created
127four goals I believe for uh presentation this evening and then left I don't know quite how to present that but just left us space spaces for additional goal or goals from uh the audit as the school committee has indicated. uh we can add uh so these are you know you'll see similar language I would say in one and um the district improvement goal number one so student learning goal is we're focused on our strategy plan and and literacy there's some different data presented there based on where our students ended and uh a few different uh and more updated action items based on our new uh curriculum and some of the work that we're going to be doing with the grants that we got from Prism and the land work. So uh I don't you guys
128can look at that. Um I think the the newness for me which I thought was appropriate and you guys will agree or disagree. Um but for professional practice goal uh I added a piece there about the operating budget and the work that we have all very collectively and openly said we want to do differently finance committee with the school committee is going to be a diff a change um the work with the city administration uh you know will start earlier I I think that uh you know having thought through a lot of that and putting this down on a piece of paper actually felt good to hold even just myself accountable but just to really focus on the process that we know we want to do and are starting to have conversations about. Um, so
129I felt that that was just a really appropriate professional and practice goal for for me and to make sure that we are really focused on the FY27 budget process now. Um, and moving it forward so that we don't end in the same place we were last year at the probably beyond the 11th hour. Um, so I'm excited about that and I hope uh that you uh feel the same way and that you feel it's an appropriate prof professional practice goal for me. Um, and to also stay informed. I think the one thing, you know, last year, I'm not sure if my mic is working, but maybe it is. But last year, um, you know, there was I certainly got more involved at a legislative level, and I think that was impactful, um, and impactful for
130our community. And so I also want to be able to maintain that uh, momentum. And there have been folks who rallied around that work last year here in the Marramac Valley who want to continue that work and continue it also earlier than waiting until March and April when we're all at the 11th hour waiting for people to make decisions at uh the state level. So again, for me, I just think it's it made sense for me, and I'm excited to have something uh focused like this that seems to be what I would consider a very true partnership in working towards the same goals with the city and the school committee and my team. Um you know, and how we do that. So that's that's the newest uh goal there that uh was re you know
131I replaced um the district uh goal focus goal number one is engagement which I you know I do feel should remain and maybe added to maybe that's something that can be drafted and you all might have other items to put in there. Um and then the last one you know I hemmed and hot about this one had a lot of conversation with Dr. Golovsky about this one. Uh we struggled with this one a little bit. I say we I district struggled with this one a little bit just with the data points that we had put in there. But now we have the baseline data for our ninth grade and we know how critical the nth grade passing rates and extracurricular and connection to high school are. Um so I do feel also in a place
132that that one is more solid. Uh and we can actually watch and really focus on what our nth graders are doing and have a quantitative value to it. Um we've already started to have some conversations with the ninth grade uh Mr. Olaflin who's the you know runs the adviserss in extracurricular Mr. Ryan for athletics. So there's just a lot of other ways kids can be involved and watching those courses. So you know we've we had some really nice dialogue about that remaining but having a much more solid structured baseline information there. So and obviously these are my goals that you know I'm submitting to you for review. uh I did not uh as um Mr. Bayz uh indicated I did not select the focus indicators that match these goals. There are certainly places in the
133four standards that you know align with the actions in here. Uh but that seemed to be a conversation the group had and maybe wanted to select the indicators as a whole body. Uh maybe now that there's an understanding of that. So there's the draft. >> Thank you, Dr. Kong. Just to help guide the discussion here, Dr. Kuang and I have been meeting uh once a week on Friday mornings usually to talk about uh you know, issues and and try to you know, continue to work collaboratively and the like. And something that has been uh you know a point that we've talked about is how often times in a city like Mthuan we have a city form of government and with that comes a lot of chaos like the chaos that we saw earlier this year
134with the budget process and you look at other cities and you see similar degrees of uh chaos and you know something that we're really committed to doing is looking at what other municipalities are doing right and I know member Donovan has been a very strong proponent of the idea of having this discussion begin way earlier relative to the budget. And something that I look to, I look to the towns. I look to the town of Andover, the town of Brooklyn, communities that are just known as being well-run municipalities. And so, even though we have a city form of government, I look to those town managers and town administrators for ideas in terms of things that we can do here at the city level uh to try to professionalize things and do things better. And so,
135I love that. that's included in a major emphasis here. So, just wanted to share that at the outset. Uh questions or discussion? Vice Chair? >> Um I have a question about the reading scores. Um Insight is the new testing, isn't it? Or is that is that the same one that we've been using? I just want to make sure we're not comparing apples to oranges when we're comparing data this year. >> Yep. So I can let Lisa answer that but Insight is the reading plus which is the one we have been using for grades four through eight. >> Okay. >> The MC class is a digital version of the Lexia. No of the dibbles. Of the dibbles, sorry, of the dibbles. So it's really it's the same assessment. It's just now electronic and part of our
136whole CLA package that will be much easier to administer and score. >> Okay. I just wanted to make sure that we were changing reading curriculums. we weren't changing the testing so that when we start looking at our percentages they they're all different again. >> No, we already went through all that. That's a great question because that has happened, >> right? Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Member Maxwell. Um so I think that we should have a clear um procedure for choosing the indicators and um a discussion on each standard and then um do a you know a roll call on each indicator or process like that so that we can make it more efficient and and um and then the other things I wanted to mention I don't know if we can add to the
137literacy goal um just a bullet point on maybe including the MCCAST scores um because this the ones you know the test that we're using for literacy is just a measurement tool. It's not really a standard and I'd like to see that we're making improvements towards our students meeting standard. Um the um the focus on chronic absenteeism. I think that we need to create a policy within in the committee to address chronic absenteeism, not just for high school, but for all um all of our students. And and then the last thing I wanted to mention was the um the focus on belonging and engagement. Um, I know a lot of I know at one point I did read that we were going to try and make sure that the ninth grade students have opportunities for afterchool
138activities, but again, I'd like to see that offered through K through eight as well. And in in that it says that each school will offer 8 to 10 opportunities for family to attend in school sponsored events. And I just want to make sure that they are school sponsored events rather than PTO events. um because a lot of our events last year were PTO sponsored. So um that's my input for the evaluation. >> Member Shabilia, >> just a question or point of clarification. Member Maxwell mentioned the MCCAST scores. >> MCCAST is ELA, not reading. So that's that's all of English language arts. >> Correct. >> There is no reading score. >> It Right. >> Right. or >> and now granted I know the scores don't count for graduation requirements anymore but is is that an applesto
139apples comparison >> it's a state standard >> right but it's a state standard towards a different element >> so the ELA tests for comprehension reading right correct >> so >> it doesn't it doesn't test it doesn't test their ELA know it tests whether they can read and comprehend the text that they're >> so Hold on. Let me just answer member Shabilia's question and I'll let Lisa also answer uh to add to it. But um the MCCAST ELA assessment includes reading, writing, includes all of it. Right. >> Right. So it's not what we're doing here is reading comprehension and decodable skills. It's they aren't this. You cannot put our internal assessments on reading comprehension and literacy on the same scale as they're not comparable. They're not comparable. by by tests. And so one of one of
140the reasons we don't use MCCAST as the sole part the sole assessment is because we actually don't ask our teachers to do that because of the timing of it. Right? So assessments are coming out now for students for last year. I won't have assessments for this year until after this process is over for evaluation. So most superintendents don't put MCCAST in their goals and we don't ask the stat you know the these teachers to use MCCAST scores as their sole benchmark. We might use them to provide goals but the the outcome of the score. Uh we stray away from that as part of goal setting. Dr. Gowski, am I missing anything? >> That's actually a good point. the MCCAST results come back after so it doesn't we tried it the first couple years I was
141superintendent and >> we sat here the first year or two and went that wasn't >> I didn't think about that that's actually I mean they come out in September it's >> we're getting them like right now unmbarged and so to actually start looking at them and analyzing and thinking about them like we'll come to you in the workshop in October with them and again we don't get them finalized until next >> end of September October so just it doesn't align quite with the process that we do with teachers and staff and educators. >> I do appreciate the conversation though because you're right, they don't. It's kind of pointless. >> This is a match. I mean, it can be part of the again, we always look at it obviously accountability data and our MCCast data and
142of course we're focused on conversations right now about high school because it didn't count and did that impact around the state, right? Um kids just even trying to to do it and do it well. No. Uh, so we're we're sorting through all that right now with staff. >> So I I do want to echo the point about events in the building. Um, just making sure that those are all-encompassing. I know there were a bunch of PTO ones. There were also very segmented groups. You know, the the the peer leaders get their night, the hockey parents get their night, and so on and so forth. So just some focus on making sure that there's more of an open opportunity which I know is difficult because you're never no matter how many opportunities you all lot people
143someone's going to say that I was never invited. So, um, and then the last one, extending events or opportunities down to the K8s, uh, >> extracurricular. Yeah, I know that just in our social circle being, you know, the second and third grade kids, they see the older kids because there are some opportunities for the the upper schools that the lower schools just don't have by proxy of their their age and or maybe it's leaders for teachers to run those facilities or facilitate those activities. But if we could find a way to >> you can give a stipen and still not have a participant. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Like you know what I mean? So if we could find a way to hopefully at least make the opportunity available for someone to come in, that would
144be great. >> And we're working with community programs right now. I think uh Jennifer Fernandez has some really nice ideas of how to more unfortunately along the line of maybe not an advisory club that is free and open to everybody, but how do we bring in other things at least in the building and opportunities for parents like the Steam uh that will be coming out um the group that she's working with right now is bringing in some art and sports into the school um for Rangers Club and then non-Rangers club students. So, we're just we're trying to figure out what that best mix is because as all of you know, there's some of this that will be contractual. >> Um, and there's, you know, some of it that won't. So, we're just trying to balance
145what those pieces are. And then real quick, just food for thought. How do we then partner with the youth center because that is something we don't have to pay for? Although we may need a a bus to get there or whatever it is, but that would be >> not money out of our empty pockets. >> Yeah, those are conversations we had early uh in the youth center conversation before we actually uh had the site. So, uh those are all open to conversations. >> Thank you. Any other discussion? Member Donovan. >> I very much appreciate the um focus on creating a purposeful budget cycle throughout the school year. Um I I just have to say it. I think our schools have done a really good job bringing in families, offering the opportunity. We can't force them
146to come, but I mean, we were invited to so many things through this school year like the um the wax museum, the biography fair, some of the reading programs, um celebration for our L students. So, I've seen a huge increase and you know, I know it's sometimes hard for families to come in on top of what the PTO's do, which I appreciate. So, I would like to give a shout out here because I don't think we shout out enough for some of the good stuff and I do appreciate being invited and I hope that continues. If you could please spread the word to our schools that you know we like to get an invite. I've been looking at the um the newsletters that are posted like kind of stalkery but like oh what's going on
147that maybe I can you know think about or visit. So, I do I think it's really important as we look at the goals to say, "Huh, so far so good, though." Um, and you know, if we can do more, great. And I wish we could I just wish we had a lot more money so we could do the afterchool programs because that we got to pay teachers good money to stay to extend their day. Ideally, wouldn't it be great for you to accomplish your goal of increasing the engagement after school for our ninth graders? We have to get these kids home. And we've talked since I think my kids were in school, wouldn't it be great to have late buses? because a lot of kids have no way to get home and to I think
148you know it's great to have these numbers but if you don't have the tools it's great to have these expectations but if we don't have the tools to help you meet these goals it it just seems a little inauthentic and our expectations are not real or fair. So, I don't know what we do except find some way to get money so we can do these extra things for our students. So, thank you. >> Any other questions or discussion? Member Maxwell, >> just a quick followup. Um, do we currently offer stipent to our teachers for say after school like chess club or gardening club or >> it's in the contract? Yes. >> Okay. >> And then some of I'm sorry some of the ones that I know we've had conversations with like the steam where the
149the the it is a paid program but the payment sustains the program, right? So the payment pays for the teach like it doesn't come out of our operating budget. It's not part of the contract. It's just something teachers like to do for six weeks or whatever that time frame is. So that's a little different, but again, we're just trying to be as creative as possible. >> Any other questions? No. All right, we'll take a vote. Uh, all those in favor? >> I >> opposed. The eyes have it. >> Wait, do we have to do >> uh We can take a roll call. That's fine. >> When do we do the focus indicators? Is that a now thing or is that a >> All we have on the agenda is discussion and approval of the draft
150goals. >> So these will come back to us. >> Well, I I guess >> I mean I thought there'd be some conversation tonight about it, but if there needs to be further, then I'm not sure you would approve these tonight until you have >> maybe another meeting with the focus indicators decided. So I'm just following the agenda. I >> So me too. I mean the focus agendas are part of my goals. Like I have to present that this whole thing. These are my goals, right? So I have the four goals in a box. You guys are going to add some goals I'm assuming in the next few weeks or we're going to talk about the goals again because >> right like you want some additional conversation about >> the audit after I and my team
151has time to process it, after you guys have time to process it. I imagine we're going to come back, right? >> So again, I don't want to delay this, you know, like if if the if the bones of these goals look good, I'm going to start we're going to go and then we'll add to it. We'll pick the focus indicators and we can do that at the next meeting or workshop. >> So this is the first step of any. >> This is what >> the first step of many. >> Yes, I think I think so. I mean if if these four go I have enough to go on to start working on these goals which would be my plan anyway uh if you know the the committee's amendable to these goals as presented and then
152we have some other steps we have to accomplish. >> Uh next on the agenda we have uh the interim uh ETF evaluation team facilitator at the high school. We need a motion and a second to approve. >> So move second >> motion from the vice chair. Second from member Shabilia. discussion. Member Shabilia, >> why do we keep losing seas like they're going out of style? >> Yeah. So, uh, Miss Bozac is here tonight uh to talk about this. Um, and I think there's just a unique perspective about the high school right now that uh we can give. >> Hi. So, we also have uh Sarah, come on up. Welcome. So Sarah Brown is here. She is our new um Mthuan High School special education coordinator. Uh so I think she's here as well to advocate.
153She has a ton of experience. She's new to Methuan, but um just our reality is is different. And uh you know we've we've had a lot of internal people in Methuan take these jobs get trained right and become seas which has been wonderful and we want to continue that. Uh but that pipeline uh people know what these jobs entail and they are massive and the one at the high school is uh we were hoping that we we would not have to have an ETF in place at Mthun High School. we left it out of the budget. Um but I think after the events of the last few weeks and we had somebody who uh very talented but uh just you know obviously has to be true to herself as well and so um you know
154I think Sarah offered to be here tonight to help support this conversation. Um Miss Bozac is here also to support it. So I can turn it over to one or both of them to have the conversation to answer your question a little bit. Mr. Shabilia, member Shabilia, um you know, we had this conversation in the budget, right? We wanted all these supporting positions in the budget to support our administrative staff, to support our teaching staff, to support our families. Uh this is a different it looks different than it did 10 years ago and we are seeing that dramatically. And so this is a position that we're in right now. >> Miss Bozac, >> I think just to add to that, so seven almost 10 years ago, right? Eight, eight, nine years ago, we were at
155a point at the high school where we were starting to see the turnover again um just in the SEA role. And that was before we had a special education program coordinator because the demands of the position at the high school. Um, at the high school it is a different animal because there's the department kind of department chair um, requirements and having to collaborate with all of the different department heads, math, primarily guidance with schedules and all of those pieces on top of the special education compliance pieces and the demands of the department and providing the support to the teachers, the program assistants um, and and families. So, eight years ago, we saw that need. We created the special education program coordinator. The department continues to grow at the high school. It houses all of our
156programs. Um, right. So, it's not just one program that one SEA can focus on. They house all of the district-wide programs because it's the high school. Um, they also are providing services and supports to students 18 to 22 and their families as well. So, um, that has grown. We're talking about 253 students on IEPs, um, along with moveins that have continued to come in of students with IEPs having to collaborate about schedules and just really go through the dynamics of it. Um, Miss Lojitsy, who was new to us this year, um, very seasoned, very skilled, was very upfront with us that this was just not sustainable with the current dynamics um, at the high school and the current demands, which is why based on feedback from both of them, Miss Brown and Miss Logity, as
157well as kind of looking at the history of of these positions at the high school is why we're here tonight asking for the interim ETF. I have more questions, but I I think we let her go first. >> So, I would just add that we're not only starting from this year, but we're looking backwards. So, we're trying to build up that team again from the high school that has been lax for many years. Um, and I think right now staff is very needy. staff is seeing that there is that gap that there is that um that lack of support that has been followed through. Um so building that up it has has been a full-time job over the past five weeks that we've been in school. Um, I can be perfectly honest and say that
158um, my position is to be out in the the school community and being with staff and understanding the programs and everything else. And although that has been um foremost on my mind, people are actually coming to my office and it's it's like a revolving door of people who just need support and need questions answered and need just guidance. Um so that's where we're at right now. So we're building from that. That doesn't even count all the paperwork. That doesn't the compliance, the meetings, everything else. that's just one reality. Um, so I think that's where this year is a a year of growth, a year of building. Um, and to do that, we need to get everything in order and build it back up again. And the paperwork um, and meetings and everything that have to
159be done that are legal, um, that are are statemandated, we have timelines that needs to be priority. But staff and their support needs to be a priority too. So we have to look at all levels because if staff isn't in a good place um and staff is feeling like they're drained that they have no support that um that it's really difficult to get through the day um then they're not they're not there for their students as much and that that's definitely going to impact them. Um and we want strong staff. We want a strong department. We want it's a huge department. Um, and it's just building that support back up. So, I would also keep in mind, I don't I'm sorry, I don't think it was on the memo, but it is the largest staff
160department at the high school, number of staff in the department that a department head has to oversee >> for the special ed department. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. like you know compared to math I'm saying like content department it's the largest department at the high school. >> So that was actually going to be part of my next question. I was going to ask the team to do their their ear muffs and then ask you what you what you see and what you think that department should be staffed at because from my perspective sitting here as not only school committee member but as a parent Yeah. who is listening out in the community like we >> we've done a full turnover of seas over the last >> two years >> in the district. Yeah. >> Almost.
161>> Yeah. So, I mean that's alarming. >> So, I guess I'm I'm I'm because you are lucky enough to be standing here in front of us. Lucky you. How are we are we short-handed? Is the job too big? Do we need as a school committee, especially as we're prepping for well another budget, some of us in >> and whatever role we end up in, do we need to be looking at ways to do it differently? Like >> I think the support from above is definitely there. So we have that we have that foundation. It's just that we have since new people are coming in. It's just building that and making sure that they're aware and they have the supports and I think those are in place. I know that they put the um EFT at
162the other other buildings. Um and that has been from what I've heard from SEA meetings that's been really helpful. Um so I think that where that's that's where we're going that it's we have we have the support coming in and we just need like we need people to be Yeah. we did supportive and continue to to check in and be aware of changes that come up and things like that. >> It's revolving. >> I pressed it. I was just going to add to that piece that Miss Brown um stated. So, Mr. Shibilia to your question about the turnover the past couple of years. That's the feedback that we're getting from special ed administrators that have resigned over the past two years that the position as is just as an SEA in a building of 1,400
163students, 1300, it's too big. It's not sustainable to maintain the compliance and support the staff in what they need for overseeing of their their needs, trainings, development, all of those pieces. And so that has been the biggest feedback that we've received. Um, which is why, you know, thanks to the support of this this committee, we were able to add in those interim ETFs in two of the largest buildings. Um, that's not to say that the other buildings aren't in need of it as well. >> We'll c we'll circle back. Member Maxwell. >> Um, so I have a couple questions. Um, this is just for the high school, correct? >> Correct. Um, is this is this the job description? It are what we looking at. Is this a job description? >> So, the chart, you mean?
164>> Yes. >> Yeah. We took that directly from the job description that we created with the union for the other two ETFs, the interim ETF positions. >> Okay. And I I asked Miss Bozac, can you put this out for me? Because this the high school has a little bit of a different structure because we're going to need this for staff too, right? Like who's doing what? Who do I go to for what? So, we wanted to be really clear. So, I think um and I'm >> I'm pretty sure Miss Brown helped with this uh chart as well. >> Um but yes, what you see in the part would be the job description. Um, and this doesn't change any of the positions that are in I just don't want it to be confusing for the special
165education administrators in other buildings and and they see this and they're like, "Well, that's that's not my job." >> Correct. So, so to to your point, that's why so the the column the ETF column that is based on the same job description that exists for the grammar schools. Okay. Um, and so we made sure that that stayed uniform and that there was nothing that for that very reason. We didn't want to confuse anybody. We wanted consistency across the district. >> Um, and what are the qualifications required and what training is provided to the ETFs? >> Yep. So, we're looking for somebody who is certified in special education. They do not need the administrator license um but have had experience, you know, a seasoned special education um teacher or it could be a related service provider
166also with that. Um, in terms of trainings, I am meeting with the ETFs and the seas, their their counterparts on a weekly basis so that we're going through um any topics that need to be developed um or or revisited or reviewed um as well as we have a scheduled training um where I'm confirming the date for November with our legal counsel as well to come in and and do a piece with them as well. >> Okay. So the ETF doesn't need an administrator license because are they do they fall under the SEA? >> They fall under the SEA and they have no supervision or evaluation responsibilities. >> Okay. >> Vice Chair. Um, will the ETF be taking on the responsibilities of the special education teachers that are now writing the IEPs, running meetings, etc. Is
167it are we going to be able to alleviate some of that stuff from the teachers themselves? So the the ETFs when they run the initials or re-evaluation meetings, they have components of the IEPs that they are um drafting along with the team, not the whole thing because again the related service providers, the teachers, they're proposing the goals. So rather than duplicate efforts, they're inputting that information. Um and then any other meeting that they may assist teachers with, they'll assist in writing either the proposal documents or maybe some of the summaries, but they're not taking on the whole component. >> Okay. So like currently we have liaison that are running our IEP meetings and that are writing the documents and you know for annual reviews >> for annual reviews. Are the teachers is any of that
168work going to be coming off of the teachers? Because I know the teachers are just exhausted and there's just so much expectation on the teachers themselves. I was hoping that this position was going to take some of that off of the teacher. So the ETFs typically do not just like the seas typically do haven't participated in the annual reviews because again now we're we're adding more meetings on to an already very large case load of of things. So if they're not at the meeting, it doesn't make sense for them to be taking on writing components of the IEPs. They're reviewing the IEPs. they're providing feedback um you know before the SEA signs off on the IEP, but that they're not taking on those additional pieces because they're not in the meeting. That doesn't make sense.
169>> Okay. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Uh we'll do a first round, then we'll come back. >> Yeah. Member Donovan. >> You so right now this could be the third position for an ETF, right? So the district >> fourth fourth >> fourth. So MSH >> Tenny Tim >> Tim okay >> in high school. So it's the CGS and the EEC that do that. >> Okay. >> I'm just wondering if I mean I anecdotally I can certainly see why we need ETFs. I mean in my previous experience I mean seas if they were sick for a day >> forget it. I mean it's just so hard to reschedule all those meetings. um you know how we looked at the efficacy of adding some new positions uh last year which I found to be very powerful.
170Um I'm wondering and I know it's only creating more work but like do we have something specific saying yes because we added these positions we met 90% of our timeline requirements or I don't know is it worth it? So when we look to the budget this year, >> yes, >> we say >> very worth it. >> Like, okay, we need one of these at every school or maybe two, who knows? >> That's something I'd like to put out there so we can say because sometimes we're accused of just throwing, you know, like we need this position, but to say here's why, you know, we'll have more satisfied parents for, you know, that's important, but more importantly, kids are getting the services they need. just to speak to that. So, so not necessarily creating more work
171because we already have systems in place where we're tracking that. So, for every building, we have a workbook set up where I I'm able to go in and see >> where we are with compliance with timelines, when we get evaluation consents in, when IEEPs go out, all the way down to when the secretary >> mails out or emails out the IEP. So, we we track all of those pieces. So, I'm able to review that um which was some of the information I believe that we used during the budget process last year for the for the proposal of the ETFs. >> Right. And if that is something that we could bring forward in a couple of months to see where we are, I think that would be very helpful. You know, we're going to have to
172justify where we're spending our money next year. And it's always such, you know, pull to all the departments. >> And I think that was part of the reason too that we talked about at length the interim, right, >> part of this, right? We do need to see if this works, right? Every every district around us has it. We don't. And so we just have to figure out >> what the best working situation is because our system is different than the the rest of the world, right? So it's just going to look different. So we feel very strongly about that too that there's we need to make sure that we're not just putting them in and they're not >> it's not >> they have to be supporting our teachers. They have to be supporting our families.
173They have to be leaison to content teachers. So that's been a huge part of the conversation with us with the union with everybody about these positions and the job description. >> So perhaps we can marinate on it and think about when would be a good time to bring forward some data. I I do think the seas have been pushed beyond the breaking point. And just from my own experience, the grant money that is being used to fund uh this proposed position, does that mean we're giving up something? >> That means that there's positions in there that we absolutely can't fill. >> Okay, that's that's tough, too. >> We're trying to listen, we're trying to find ways to fund these things. This is the way that we can fund it, >> okay, >> for this year.
174And finally, there's 30 unit A positions and 31 unit C positions. >> Do you evaluate all of those people >> right now? >> She's like, well, >> that >> it would be divided amongst the positions. Yeah. >> All the PAs. And I'm And just fill me in. Who else would be doing? >> Okay. So, you're spreading that out. Okay. Yeah, >> I didn't know if it was just compartmentalized. >> It is typically divided between the SCA and the special ed program coordinator, >> but right now it's divided beyond that. >> So, Mr. Caret has been working collaboratively with Miss Brown over the past few days to finalize the distribution of who's doing those evaluations. started that process. >> I >> Well, thank you for that because I don't think people appreciate how much time and
175effort to do a really meaningful evaluation, especially with new new people because it's a lot more work with new people, the requirements. Um, so thank you for that. But I think we're starting to expect people to do the impossible. And um evaluations to spread out is insane. But thank you for that. >> Perfect timing. >> I planned that really well. >> Would anybody else like to speak for the first round before we move on to the second? If not, member Maxwell. >> Um, so now I have an additional question based off of Mary Beth's. There's are there 61 evaluations just at the high school? >> Yes. >> 30 unit A, 30 unit A for special education, teachers, related service providers, and 31 for program assistance at the high school. >> Okay. Um, that's a lot.
176Um, and then member Keegan mentioned something about the liaison. So are we just interchanging those terms? ETF, liaison. >> No, evaluation. >> Different positions. So, so special education teachers also serve as liaison. So if if I have a student on my case load, >> I'm the liaison for them for annual reviews. I I handle that meeting. Okay. >> Um I'm just giving that as an example, right? Um evaluation team facilitators are doing any initial eligibility meetings and all re-evaluation meetings. >> Okay. Um, and then just one more question. There's uh there's a there's a description in here that says if signed consents come back in person, they go to SEA first, then ETF. I'm just curious, is that a question or is it a typo and maybe that was meant to be? >> I think
177it was a typo. >> That's definitely a typo. Was not a question. >> Right. >> That's all. I'm just trying to find it now. >> Vice chair. So, this isn't a question. This is just I've been at the high school for eight years and I've been dealing with the special education department for eight years straight and last year was an absolute disaster. Um, everything fell apart at the high school and um Sarah has been a godsend this year for pulling things back together. Um, and I was very sad that um, we lost our sea because she was also fantastic. And it just goes to show how big this job is that we can't keep people, even qualified people, we can't keep them because the job is too big. And I don't think just from my
178experience as a parent, that one ETF is enough. We don't have enough people supporting the staff. the staff is burnt out and we're going to start losing our special education teachers because we are burning them out. Um, this position is more than needed. Um, and we have to find money for to fund this stuff. Any other questions? All right, we'll take a vote. All those in favor? >> I opposed. >> The eyes have it. Uh we are now moving on to the next part of our agenda which is a discussion regarding the selection of a date for the next special meeting for continued policy review of sections C and D. >> Well, I think people forgot that we didn't finish that meeting last week. >> I just didn't want you all to forget. So we
179put on agenda. >> So I don't know how we want to do this. I you know looking at calendars tonight I just I don't want to forget that we we >> we need to schedule another meeting just for the policy review. So it would not be one that is a regular meeting on the calendar. >> I don't if you guys want me to the mayor and I to pick some dates that work for us and send out some possibilities. I don't know how to >> Yeah. >> All the people involved. >> I did want to bring up as a subcommittee member on the policy. I'd like to get the input from the full committee on how to make this process better because like we were talking we were talking to our rep today and um
180we had a lot of questions for her and it took up the first 40 minutes of our 1-hour meeting. Um so if we could come up with a better um process that would be great. Let's hear it. I was thinking that too because that was pretty brutal. So it's more of a question because when you the subcommittee brings us that pile is it fair for me to assume that you folks are proposing you have talked amongst yourselves and now you are saying to us here is our suggestion. >> Yes and no. >> Because if it were a yes I'd be like I feel so much better. I mean, you guys put a lot of time into this. I trust my colleagues. That would help me feel a lot better about saying, you know, approving that
181was my, you know, when you said a suggestion that would be perfect if you could spend all the time working on it and then present to us. So I think going back and to thinking about where the subcommittee started and where we are today, I think we are a lot better at going through the documents, having the conversations and making improvements now than we were when we did A and B >> because >> in CN and maybe maybe the next one. But I think that you're going to see a change in quality of the document as they come out cuz truth be told we didn't know what we were doing. >> And a lot of times Alicia who I mean the woman who runs the subcommittee not runs but from MAC is the same one
182who is here tonight. Um we we are bringing some things forward because they are aspirational and she's recommending we bring them forward and you know sometimes it's proposed with the purpose to have the discussion. Um some of them are also aspirational and say this is not the way it works now but this is the way it should work based on what best practices and the the state and what they recommend and all those things but I think you will start to see that the documents will improve as we get deeper into the pile. May I? So if you folks came, I don't know what the non-s subcommittee members feel, but if you came to us and said this is our suggestion for this policy, we have agreed upon this that would I find I think
183that would be very helpful to me because you've hashed it out. I mean that I assume that was your job anyway, right? And then presented in good faith here's how you feel. Not that there but I think it would cut down on some of the discussion. >> I think I would just like to say I think that we should go forward with the process that we did for A and B with C and D only because that one was we were kind of a little bit still behind. Um but I do think what Dan said is pretty accurate. I mean we made some significant progress today just in um just in that. So I think I think that if going forward E and F and H and I think that those policy sections will be
184much easier for you guys to just say you know what yes we approve instead of having this back and forth and I think this and I think that now we're working better together and addressing those questions so it will be presented better to you not CN D but the following section >> maybe a little CN D a >> maybe a So we can circle back Dr. Kong and I >> Yeah. >> So we'll come up with some dates and we'll send some things out to you all and I think I hate to do this but like we'll pick three more December uh because I think we have to get them all on our calendar and whatever we're ready to then the next round of policies. I think that's how Alicia suggested we do it like
185what's the next set of three or four groups that we're ready to bring to the school which I agree I think we'll be uh in a much better place with those >> these were big A and were big >> couple sections are big and like today we finished one and it was four there's four policies in the section so it just depends on the topic and the sections uh how big or long the discussions I I agree. I think we'll be able to come on a more succinct. >> So, we'll circle back with the committee with the dates. Yeah. >> Uh next on the agenda, any other business from the committee? >> Uh I have something. Um so, as publicized uh in the press and we've also been in the loop on this obviously. So,
186uh, Pestend agreed to stay with us for an additional month through the end of September. Uh, I will have a, uh, special meeting of the city council scheduled on Tuesday the 30th at 5:30 just before we have our audit meeting for the city council to approve a new contract uh, beginning uh, immediately on October 1st. I've selected Brahman Pest Elimination to be the new vendor for the city and so they will get right to work on uh taking care of addressing our needs within our schools but also other city buildings and this will also ensure that we don't have any interruption in service uh in terms of the transition. So I wanted to share that just as a housekeeping item. >> Just just as a point of information where are they located? >> Uh so
187they have many locations in and around the area. They're mainly out of the 128 belt. >> Okay. >> So, they're in the area. >> Um, so with that, I'll entertain a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Motion from member Shabilia, second from member Daglio. All those in favor? >> Of course. Yes. Any opposed? No. The time is 7:20 p.m. And we are adjourned. Good night, Mthun. Wow, >> guys. It's 7:20. What do we do? >> Your mic's on.