Methuen School Committee 10-15-2025

001[Music] Good evening. The school committee workshop session of October 15, 2025 will now come to order. This meeting is being recorded and will be made available for viewing on the Mthuan public schools website. Uh, I'll ask the secretary of the school committee to call a role. >> Member Daglio, member Donovan >> here. >> Member Keegan >> here. >> Maxwell present. Member Wlette. >> Yep. >> May >> here. We have a quorum. And we are off to the races. We need a motion and a second to accept the agenda for tonight's meeting as presented. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Motions from member Shibilia, the seconds from member Donovan. Discussion. Um, could I make a motion to amend the agenda to add public participation? >> I'll second that. >> Okay. So, we're going to officially add

002public participation. Uh, I think that's fair and appropriate. Uh, >> all those in favor of the proposed amendment, say I. >> I. >> Opposed? The eyes have it. We need a motion and a second to >> Who made the motion? >> Oh, excuse me. Uh, vice chair made the motion. The second was from member Wlette. Um, so at this point we need a motion and a second to accept the agenda now as amended. >> So second >> motion from member Donovan, second from the vice chair. Any further discussion? If not, we'll vote. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Opposed? The eyes have it. I will now rise for the flag salute. And now on to the traditional placement of public participation. Uh is there anybody in the audience who wishes to speak?

003If not, if not, I'll I'll close public participation. Or would you like to speak? >> No, I just said hello. >> Oh, okay. All right. Uh, so we'll close public participation. If you cannot make a meeting in person for public participation, you can send an email to Susan Shanti at SNSci at mthuan.k12.mma.us us before 3 p.m. on the day of the school committee meeting. Uh the only thing we really have on the agenda is uh the discussion regarding uh the school audit. This is the beginning of our follow-up efforts um and a discussion regarding possible goals. Uh I will turn it over to the superintendent and we will proceed to engage in discussion from that point. >> Thank you. Um, so I passed out uh a packet that is not new information but some things

004that I have uh done to the information that we received from the audit company. And so I think for me uh being tasked with all the things I have heard about this audit along the way was that whatever the outcomes were, we were going to take outcomes to figure out what we could do to move forward and uh progress. Uh and then in this group in particular, it was what could we use to then add to my own goals. Right? So tonight is really focused on the district wide recommendations for consideration because that pertains specifically to me. Um and what we do this evening will really uh model what will happen in the schools. So if that makes sense for everybody, right? So uh the team knows that this is happening this evening. They know

005that my goals will be spoken about. Uh and then our team, our principles, uh the staff here with Miss Bozac and Miss Golovski and Mr. Goslin, we've all sort of talked about next steps. So, I hope that makes sense. Um, I I did meet with the uh task force last week to make sure I was on the right path forward of what the expectations were from the mayor, member Shabilia, and member Donovan. Um, so this is what we tal this is the outcome of what we talked about in that meeting. So, what you have here is there is a key on the front page. So, I colorcoded the boxes uh that are attached. Now, everything in the boxes on these charts uh I very much appreciate Jared sent me the actual PowerPoint so I could

006copy and paste and manipulate the the information. So, I took everything from Mthuan Public School District. So, the main sort of themes, right? Again, this is the these are not the school related recommendations that the principles will do with their team just like we're doing here tonight. Um, so going through that, I put the titles on the left hand side of sort of what was highlighted in bold by the CBZ folks. Uh, and then the bullets, so the black dot bullets in the boxes are exactly written from the auditors. That's not my language. Those are not my bullets. What are my bullets are the hollow ones underneath it. So, what I did is went through each one of those sections and just added some notes because I think one thing that was a little bit

007hard is that some of these are very general. They're not very specific to, you know, Mthun Public Schools specifically or what we have done, what we need to do, where we are. So, I put some notes uh in all of these boxes. Uh some have more notes and some don't have a lot of notes. So when I did that um I then colorcoded everything in three with three things in mind. Um you know what items are budget related and would not uh appropriately be something that I could control completely um as a goal but certainly something that is there and would be most likely part of the financial goal I do have right in conversation. um the the pieces that are in that yellowish color uh that straw color those those for me I defined

008as things that were in process. Right. So there are definitely pieces of these different goals that um or or recommendations for consideration that we do have sort of in place at this point. Obviously, they were the last two boxes are uh pretty um filled with some of the stuff with the building maintenance issues. So, I tried to add as much detail to that of what we have been doing since, you know, last year and through the summer and definitely this fall and where we are today. Uh covered sort of a lot of those different bullet items. So, those for me were more of like what's in process. Yes, there's still some things to be done there, but those are already on our radar and and exist somewhere in our conversations. I don't know if that

009makes sense if I said that appropriately, but that's sort of how my my brain was thinking of it. And then the pieces that are in blue are the ones that stood out to me as sort of the stronger common themes that uh really could be added to uh my current goals or created new ones. And so uh for those the blue at the top, the first one improved communication and administrative responsiveness. I think there was a pretty strong theme in all six schools uh regarding that that we could all focus on. Um the feedback and recognition for staff that was another one that was there's a newness to that for us that we talk about but we don't have a consistent I'd say plan or strategy for in our buildings and the district >> approach.

010Yeah. Thank you. Um and then the last one that we're hearing loud and clear that the principles several principles and I have already talked about um at some level are the discipline policies and the bullies bully bullying policies. I think there's that one in particular is twofold. I did not write a lot of bullets on that one particularly because this is one that I think would be really important to dive in with the principles um Mr. Crocker, Andrea, all the people involved to really kind of create what that would look like. Um so so and some of that is for that particular um item. I think there's a and and Miss Bozac and I have already talked about like so we've we've been having these conversations for the past week or so about some of

011these this one in particular. Um you know there's some of it is how we're communicating out this information, right? We have bullying policies. We have discipline policies. How are we making sure it's being implemented consistently? That's something I've heard from you all in this audit. Right? So, that is something that the principles and I have already been talking about, but we can structure that a little more closely. And then I think just the education aspect um for our families, for our students about how we define bullying, uh how we don't define bullying, what happens. Um there seems to be a very widespread uh misunderstanding that if something is not substantiated in bullying, the schools don't do anything about it and we we keep having to like backpedal and just because it's unsubstantiated doesn't mean that

012something's not happening with the school uh meeting plans or discipline or or the such. So I think there's there's benefit to having some deeper conversations there um from everything that I have heard. So for me I think those three places are really uh feasible and can generate a new a couple of new goals for me. Um but also and drive some of the goals for the principles and also um I do think uh one in particular so on the back page of this presentation um I just quickly summarize sort of where my thoughts were on the goals. So I already have a goal in the the document that we shared a few weeks ago about um the school partnerships and families and engagement. So this the two bullets at the bottom there that are that

013are highlighted are I think could fit there. They're from this particular audit and recommended for the communication. Um and I think they could like I said I think they could fit there. I don't think they would have to be a separate goal. Um but the second two uh the feedback for recognition for staff and the discipline and bullying bullying bullying policies I think there's some work that we can do there around communication definitions consistencies that could create a new goal with new action plans. So I know that was like really quickly talked about but that again I believe that was the task that the school committee put uh in front of me with the audit that I would take this information and do uh you know make it productive and make it effective and move

014forward. uh you know there are seven months left of this school year. I'm also trying to be what can be accomplished uh in that time and I think we could get some really good things accomplished with increasing communication and we might be standing on our heads um trying to figure out better ways to engage with families um you know but it is a two-way street right we need families to engage with us we keep putting stuff out there I have I have I think three principles now doing different coffees um and just you know people don't show up right So I there's just how do we better uh engage? And I think we've tried a lot of things but we're willing to kind of go back to the table and figure out other ways, right?

015Um so that's again that was quick. Um I don't know if if you want me to go like section by section in the bullets I wrote. I don't know how you want to proceed. And again, we can do that understanding that like this was just finalized today and handed to you today. We can go through sort of each section that I have in yellow as like how are we progressing? >> I happy to do it and if we stop at each one. I don't know how you guys want me to proceed, I'm happy to do it. Anyway, >> I I I just have a thought and then we'll entertain questions. I I think that first of all I very much appreciate how welllaid out this document is where it's incorporating the recommendations from the audit

016but then indicating you know I guess that um in in a level of detail that provides that triage effect where we're able to address the things that we can do in the here and now the things that are going to be longer term goals. So I appreciate the way that that's laid out and I look forward to the discussion. Um, I think it makes sense to tackle uh the things that we plan on doing, you know, that are already in process or the things that are tangible in terms of this year maybe diving deeper into that. Um, member Shel, did you have a question? >> Yes. Uh, so something that has come to me more times than I can count at this point is the engagement that parents and some teachers have with building admin.

017>> And I know that those were put into the individual schools, >> right? >> But for me, it's it's something that should be looked at holistically even though it looks at individual schools. So, I know it wasn't in this section and I understand and fully appreciate what you did and the logic that got us here, but can we can we find a way to kind of like scoop all that up and make it our own overarching district view a goal? >> Yeah, I think the first one, the improved communication and administrative responsiveness is where that would fit. So if I look I you know I didn't I didn't use the individual school recommendations for this right this task to get this complete for today. Um but I can to make that >> no I mean

018that to me is the one big >> issue. I mean I think it was three out of four schools >> right staff to student. Yeah, >> it was it was staff to administration, then it was teachers, uh parents and >> teachers to teach >> teachers and the whole >> gambit of relationship. >> Um >> so assuming seeing that it was three out of four, I understand why the auditors didn't put it on the overarching list. Y >> but for us >> that one school >> Yeah. >> can always benefit from a little bit more reinforcement. It's not going to hurt them. That's all I've got. Thank you, >> Maxwell. >> I mean, do you want I It's at the will of the committee how you want me to proceed. >> It's simpler the better. I'm

019I'm in favor of just going just straight. It's not that it's not that many boxes and we can stop and I think for that content that would be if there are questions we can stop at each one. >> Miss Donovan, do you Oh, I'm sorry. I'm not the chair. >> I'm so sorry. >> So, as we look at improving communications, this is the one thing I was trying to figure out. Excuse me. Do you uh is there a counter on the newsletters? people. How many people are looking at the Friday night newsletters >> there is? I thought there was >> there's a counter on the pages. Yeah. >> And I can I think I see it when I click on I see a number on the right hand and it's abysmal. >> Absolutely. I mean,

020if I'm right, I saw like 43 at one school. And I don't know if that's you're clicking on as I would through the website because I don't get the email or >> the the person that created the newsletter can see the views. It's usually in the hundreds. >> Okay. And still that's not great, >> right? >> I I'm just wondering if that could be part of our data. I mean, we're pushing it's supposed to be you're pushing the information out, but is anyone what's the effect of it if no one's reading it? >> I don't disagree with you. So, I think part of this is saying we know what we already do, right? We're we're pushing information out. We have information on our website. We're pushing out talking points, but I can't make people read

021it and understand it and respond to it, right? So, how this is what I'm saying about kind of standing on our heads a little bit, right? We have >> some principles who have already, >> you know, doing like let's do coffee hours whether it's in the afternoon or morning. I know that Timy's starting to do that and like three people showed up u and it's the same three people, right? Like there's and Rebecca's done that at the marsh. So, and it's a very casual they do it in the cafeterias or the media centers with some coffee, right? Um so, it's supposed to be meant to like just come and have a conversation, right? There's no note, no computers, but um you know, and that could be just a culture. We have to like change that

022that that's a come and just talk, right? Come and just visit. Um, so we that might take time to change because we don't always do that, right? >> We've been doing it for years. >> I know, but we don't we haven't we haven't always >> I think sometimes parents don't want to walk in because they think it's not just going to there's some there's a gotcha somewhere. You know what I mean? So like how do we change that mindset that >> you can just come in and whether it's for 10 minutes or an hour, right? and just have a conversation about whatever my own child or a program or how do how do we get recommendations for high school, you I mean, there's just different things I think that people can >> Well, I will

023share that yesterday, I had a parent say that she was really disappointed that she's getting um so many talking points and sometimes late at night and you know, so I wonder if it's worth, as we've done in the past, looking at some numbers to say, are we just doing this like the Friday emails to and not having a good feedback and find another way? I I don't I don't I don't want to create more work at this stage in the game, but >> I mean, we have the data and talking points about who it went to. I don't think we can see who's read it. >> Yeah. >> Can we see who's read it and talking about Oh, because we can then we can see >> newsletters. I I just don't know. I mean, if

024there's something totally different to try. I mean, I >> and we and this this is an eb and flow, right? Because we used to do the Friday or the Sunday calls way back when and people were starting to get irate about receiving the phone calls. So, we stopped the phone calls. uh and we were able to switch over to Infinite Campus, you know, 10 plus years ago for messages because then parents can open the email when they want to. >> Um and then there are some parents who are blocking the emails and do not want to receive any more emails from the school or from Infinite Campus. So it is a challenge and I know you know Mayor Perry used to always bring it up too. It's that triangulation of how many parents are active

025in infinite campus looking at grades and I believe we did that once uh with him you know to say like is there a correlation between the kind of grades and academic process kids are progress kids are making and whose parents are involved in looking at it and obviously that's at a secondary level because we don't have that >> that relationship with grading in infinite campus for elementary but I I don't know Again, we're we're open to trying to come up with new ideas. I don't know what we'll come up with, but I think again in having some conversations with principles already, there's just some I don't we just have to try some different things. I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's I don't think it's going to be giving up >>

026all of this. I think it's what else can we do, right, to to capture and engage I I mean, I will say the time that I have seen and I I know uh um Dr. Gabski absolutely will attest to this. Uh you will too and a few of you who've gone to different things and member Maxwell as a parent maybe you as well Miss Keegan but um when we have the past two years when we've opened up the come into the grade level and see your students science fair project your right that's when we see the most parents in the building. But you also want to be careful because you don't want to be like, "Hey parents, why don't you come in the auditorium now so we can talk to you about X, right?" Um,

027so we don't we want to make sure that we have that, right? Parents want to come in and see what their kids are doing and meet the teachers and meet the people they're working with every day and we have really good results with that. Um, that's something that we've I've talked about with one particular principle, like how do we capture that time? What else can we do during those times to capture, inform, communicate? Do you know what I'm saying? So, like, how do we have like an open hour? Come over here when you're done with your child's presentation or um author's visit or something like that, you know, in the media center. We're going to have a group of administrators or guidance counselors and we'll have this conversation. You know, that's the that's the level

028we're at. How do we take what we have where we know parents are and what they're coming to see and capturing that capacity? I think that's where our create we need to be creative with those ideas and I think each principal will have something a little different to add to that. vice chair. >> Um, one thing that struck me was that the number of people that said they got their information from social media >> because we don't have social media, >> right? >> Um, and so I feel like we need to in a way to improve communication actually have some sort of presence and I know you hate it. I do know that. But but somehow to communicate all of the good things that are happening in the schools because I don't ever hear of

029anything good honestly like I'm just hearing all the mudslinging and all of the negativity but there's never anything coming from the school saying hey look at this fun run hey look at >> so many good things you know >> um and so I really feel like we need a presence of the good stuff and I I I don't know how to quantitative creatatively do that. But I feel like we need we need a social media presence. >> I know she's I can feel her staring at the back of my head right or the side of my head. Dr. Gowski feels very much like you do. >> Um >> people are freaking lunatics on social media. >> She's given she's given me the eyes right now. >> I would say this I I it's not that

030I hate it, but how are we going to manage that? What else is it me that is going to manage now social media and all the things coming from six schools? Am I asking the principles to add that to their plate that they're managing a Facebook page and an Instagram? I I just don't know quite yet what the how is how we're going to manage that. Dr. Golovski very much um and I'll I'll let you speak but very much wants to open up and start and I think this would be a good start and I think member Donovan would agree they want to with the new literacy program in the elementary start small and have a social media literacy push things out the good the information the nights that would coinc coincide with the community

031literacy program, right? So, there's there's a there's a there's a ma match here of let's get this information out and then they re howver it works, right? They repost, they share, we repost, reshare, and we start to build something that way. I think if we But now it's Dr. Gowski, who's running a social media page, which she's willing to do. However, again, how many more things are we going to ask us to do that could get right like turn comments off? We just post what we need to post as far as I do see that mostly for any school district pages. It's post the information, turn comments off. So, it's not a chatter, right? And we're not monitoring that. That makes it a little more reasonable, I think, for us to manage. Um, but at

032least it's something that we could have a presence on Instagram. I think we would start with Instagram. Is that what you wanted to do, Dr. Instagram and Facebook? >> Both. Right. >> If I may, >> I don't hate it. I just think we need to structure rules around it, what the expectations are for what we're posting, and to make sure that we then don't have it go rogue on the school side. Then each teacher's d there's an you know English nine Facebook page like we just we have to have some structure. I think there does does have to be some policy social media what the district expects for us pushing out social media. Um that just we just don't have that right now. It has potential to go a little rogue. >> We'll hear from

033member Maxwell next and we'll follow up with member. Um, so what what make I mean all of that sounds great. I I think that that's a great idea, especially if you're willing to manage that. Um, but what makes this proposal different than the last two years? I mean, I came in I came into this position and my biggest my biggest concern was parental involvement. And you know over the past two years we've been told that we've kind of grown in that department but we haven't that showed on the audit and these are things we're already doing. >> So I I would would say that I would disagree in a sense that we are growing. We have seen engagement increase in the schools. I just want to keep like there's 80% of the parents didn't respond

034to this audit and survey. 80% of the parents when we sent it out last February didn't respond, right? We came up with similar findings. We're trying to find new ways. So, we're talking about people who have very strong feelings about these topics one way or the other, right? That's what this survey is showing. That's what our survey, that's what qualitative and quantitative data shows you. So, there is improvement, but there's always ways to make it. If people aren't reading our information and then they're making their own narratives and posting it on social media and parents and community members are just taking that as fact. That is our biggest battle that people are just accepting what is posted on social media as fact without ever contacting anybody in the school department. That has that is why

035I've been saying that for however long Facebook has been alive. That has been our biggest problem. We just need to encourage people to have that human connection with their teachers, with their schools. Pick up the phone and call us because our day is filled with humans, not computer screens, right? We're not sitting at our computer screens all day. None of us are. We're in meetings. We're with parents. We're with students. We're doing walkthroughs. We're meeting with consultants, right? Like, we're not doing that. So, it's hard when social media has created this very immediate feed of response that we our our our school structure just doesn't allow for, right? Teachers are teaching all day. I do not want my teachers responding to emails all throughout the day. Nor do you, right? Like, we don't want that.

036So, how do we create something that I mean, I I would do it. I just there needs to be structure and it's going to be a budget issue. I don't I'm probably the only urban district that does not have a communication relations staffer full-time staff person and so not asking for one but that is it's got to be a realistic conversation at some point because if we want to do these things I can't rely on students in a pro this great ideas right like students in a program could probably create some really great things for us to push out really positive information for us um but are we relying on student programs and classes to be pushing information out that we want, you know, I mean, yes, to a degree, but not solely, right? We

037can't rely on that solely. So, just some thoughts, >> Robert Donovan. >> Well, I'm glad we're talking about social media because I totally agree with you and I've kind of been talking about this for a couple of years. I I've seen I've done some research. Haval and Lowel. I mean, they can cover when they do they showcase teachers um in their social media. So, I don't know how we get around this, but I think it's probably one of the most important goals. And if if it means giving up something else, I don't know what we give up, but I I don't know. And I do know that there's no one in the bu in the building to do it. I I that would it's that would we could ask to do fairly. I don't know.

038>> But we can start small and have this idea and see if it works, right? If it if it helps with people understanding what's happening. And the other thing we know, Facebook does not reach >> our 7,000 families. It reaches a thousand or 2,000 whoever's on Facebook, right? It's our only English- speakaking population typically on the unofficial pages or political pages or who wherever things are being posted. So, we have to be cautious of that. I don't know what the technology is. If there's trans automatic translations for Facebook and Instagram, things like that. I'd have to learn more about that. Um because then I'm also putting out information to the same group of people and we're missing a lot, you know, missing another group, right? And one of the one of the things that we

039did when we went to talking points is that we we absolutely our second language population was very clear three four years ago, three years ago and the they abs they did not rely on email, right? They rely more on the texting opportunities and WhatsApp and things like that. And so when we worked with the ELPAC that kind of came out also loud and clear. I think it was one of the first years we had ELPAC that everybody said when we were in a meeting like they all have phones, right? And then they have the capability for translation, right? So it's just um seems to be more reasonable for us to reach more people. So you know now it's is it working? Is our WhatsApp I mean is our is our talking points being being you

040know opened and read more frequently than our emails? Do we defra, you know, do we stop sign kind of sending these the multitude of emails and then when the emails come, they're only sort of the things that are coming out of infinite campus notifications. They're not coming from like principles and things like that on a regular basis. I think we can start looking at that. But there's there's there's going to be a monetary piece here. Like I said, Haveril has a communications probably office with multiple people in it, >> right? And so people are going to schools, they're taking photographs, they're making sure no publish document, they know who can be published and who can't. That's there's work behind that, you know. So definitely again worth the conversation to see what we can do feasibly

041in small chunks and see if it works. I feel like that's kind of all we can do right now is see what would work differently. >> Thank you. >> Um just one quick housekeeping item. Um just my own observation. We're going to be going through this piece by piece, having discussion on every item. I will decline any motion to extend this meeting past 9:00. It ain't happening. Uh so what we're going to do is we may have to potentially schedule a follow-up special meeting to get through all of these things. We're not going to conquer Rome in a day. >> Um so I just want to acknowledge that we may, but uh I I >> I'm trying to be realistic. Um >> well we we'll hear from member Shabilia and then we can circle back

042for additional conversation. Member Shabilia. >> So I thank you because another late night would be tedious. Um my recommendation would be to let's do the blue ones first as those are the ones that we're targeting >> and then maybe the green because those are budget and the yellow is ongoing and I think we're all fairly caught up on those. But anyways, not what I wanted to say. Um, I think it's important that as a body we level set on what our expectation is for communication because the idea that we're going to hit 100%. Is wildly outside the realm of possibility? I what what is our what is a reasonable goal? And I I asked that as a legitimate and honest question because I don't I don't know what do we what are other districts hitting?

043What do we want to hit? I mean, if we hit 40% and get a 40% read rate, is that is that good? Because it sounds really good to me, but I'm coming from a different perspective in a different world. Um, so I I think at some point we have to have that conversation of how do we deem this a success? Because the idea that every parent's going to be engaged and everyone's going to be happy is the case in zero situations in any part of life. Um, that being said, we are looking now at winter break coming up for all the local colleges and uh, ironically enough had a conversation two days ago with a student at Northern Essex who's doing a marketing program and they're always looking for internships. We set up a shared

044inbox, you know, social media at Mthuan and we set we, you sets the rules and we start real low level. Let that person manage that way. I mean, I know Lisa's become a master website builder in her spare time here at Pthuan public schools, but you guys have other more important things to do than run a social media page. I just I think that there are there are opportunities out there that we can uh work smarter, not harder. And if we can leverage those and if we can plan that to align with the semester that's coming up, I think that could be a good opportunity for us because if it's free, it's for me. Okay, >> member Wlette, >> I have a few concerns. Um, and I mentioned it during prior meetings. I know that

045in in Salem, New Hampshire, they have a communications office and they avail themselves of a Salem life. I think having Mthan life and they're mostly positive, >> they're not a political controversy. having some type of monthly uh informational highlight a teacher, highlight a staff person um outreach and then also have some type of summit with the topic and have professionals come in and and give a presentation. I know uh Peabody they had a tragic situation and they gathered the community together on the issue of bullying and I I think we need to have some type of summit that would be under controlled circumstances of maybe having the police chief uh maybe someone from the district attorney's office um have uh professionals and have a bullying summit to have people come together and Um, is it

046local that we have to make modifications? Uh, we've talked about this in the past. I think there's some uh strings attached at the state and there's some weakness in the existing law. Um, but I think there's a uh cry uh for reform within the bullying uh enforcement system. So having some type of uh not all the time maybe quarterly a summit >> it could be on bullying it could be on social media and in terms of social media just a segue what I've witnessed and I don't know what the solution is is that people that would go through the normal channels of superintendent principal mayor school committee members of constituent issues what they're doing is venting on Facebook and I think they're they're getting lost uh through the channels and I think it's a disservice.

047Um they might not be aware of what they can do. They can reach out to a superintendent, they can reach out to a principal, they can reach out to a school committee member, a mayor, even having some type of um form that could be sent that maybe we're CCed on. Um, that's my biggest concern is that people are are venting on Facebook. And I've seen periodically my colleagues respectfully, diplomatically, intelligently reaching out to them and saying, "By the way, reach out to the principal, reach out to your school committee, reach out to the superintendent." Um, Facebook and social media will not solve your issues. And you have a right to vent. Um, but I'm concerned that other people will think that that's a place to solve situations and it's not. Um, there's other avenues that

048traditionally we are the elected school committee. You have an elected mayor, you have a superintendent and principles and frontline people that can help and that's my big. So, I don't know how we address that. I don't know if we send some type of a advisory to people. Uh, we have a a summit talking about the the dos and don'ts on social media that people have an outlet. I know uh in terms of the island neighborhood there's a center where um there's people that help with social services and I think there's a net need community that they might not be aware of being able to sign up for fuel assistance or food stamps or um assistance in the home or or food banks or clothing drives or anything like that. So that would be my thing

049having summits having some type of newsletter through Mthuan life and then having some type of um advisory to people that social media is not going to solve your problems in in terms of a considerate manner. So that would just be my feedback. >> Okay. I also would say I'm sorry I I would also say that the other thing that has piqued my interest uh that was hugely successful during co is our video messaging. >> Yeah. >> Uh so we did that I know I did it the principles did it sort of religiously on the video messaging so people could see us. Uh and the capability today versus 5 years ago on translations and subtitles is so much greater and easier to do. So, I did revisit that last week, too, to say like maybe we

050try that, right? And we just do information and we shoot out information. It's not interactive, but it's it's information sharing in in ways that people can watch on their own time. They're not, you know, obligated to come out physically to an auditorium or school on a busy night. Just another opportunity. Um, so I just want to share that. That was something that as I was going through this that hit my because that was we got a lot of views on our you my YouTube channel to get a lot of views that year reading books even we read books out loud that teachers could share. I mean there were a lot of creative ways we did that that >> maybe we could bring that back um but use it differently. Sorry Maxwell, I didn't mean to.

051>> Can I just rewind for a quick second? Um, when we had the meeting on September 30th, I was under the impression that we were be going to be scheduling a special meeting to ask questions regarding what was in the audit. And like I appreciate this cuz these are recommendations for obviously consideration, but is there going to be a point tonight where we can ask specific questions about what we received after we've reviewed it? And um I also thought that CBIZ would be here to answer any questions that we might have. So the thing is is that with CBiz um in terms of their ability to continuously come back I need to be very um cautious of you know I don't want to take advantage of our one or perhaps two additional meetings uh and

052have it not wasted but you know I I think that there's an appetite from the city council. They're asking for another followup and it's something that if we were to do anything like that, we would have to have >> joint meeting. >> Well, the thing is is that when it comes to CBIZ, we don't have them forever. Uh so we had that meeting that I was hoping would have been, you know, extensive by way of presentation, discussion, etc. We had them available for the entire night. Um I know that there wasn't really an appetite among some counselors for that. Um so like they're not available tonight. Um but you know I think at this point we have an opportunity to maybe engage them again um you know for a follow-up but you know just I'm

053going to share my own two cents here. You know now that they've given us the presentation we have the survey results. You know, I think that by looking at that, we can extrapolate a lot of information from what they've given us and then from there internally we, you know, work on this follow-up conversation. But ultimately, you know, I think what the superintendent is doing here by presenting, you know, this path forward, this, I think, is, you know, where we want to focus our attention, but certainly happy to schedule another follow-up with them, but it would have to be something where we're going to really maximize that time because we don't have them. >> Okay. >> Uh, indefinitely. Um, will there be time at the end of this meeting after we go through the recommendations that

054if any questions weren't addressed in this um, recommendations for consideration, we'll be able to ask those? >> I don't see why not. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And are we also having an executive session regarding the redacted names in the audit that we discussed? names. >> So the thing that I think is a misconception, this is a big misconception, everything in that survey report, >> it's it's very clear about any references that are being made. >> It's very clear. I also just want to add that the >> Mr. >> There's no reason legally under the nine reasons, >> huh? >> There's no purpose um that is uh binding for us to have an executive session with what you just asked for. It doesn't exist on the list of nine options to have an executive session.

055>> Um does that make sense? Just in something else too, this was implied in the public's prayer that um you know suggesting that there were redactions and whatever. >> Everything is in there if you if you read through it. This this was something that uh >> I mean we were told on a on a meeting that names were redacted and that's why it was sent back. So I'm just curious. It is what was said. We can go back to that meeting, but >> there may have been some misconceptions, but everything is in there and it's all public. >> Okay. And what if there are um some issues in it that we feel need to be addressed that maybe aren't addressed on an administration level and I know that executive sessions are for certain reasons. One

056would qualify for one of those reasons. So, how do we get there? >> So, we can we can discuss I know attorney Maro is here. Um, this is something it's not we don't have an executive session scheduled tonight. We can maybe connect about, you know, whether for instance any discussion regarding specific personnel. I I think that that could, you know, inch into that realm of executive session material. Um, we we can connect about this separately, but I think in terms of what we have on the agenda tonight. No, >> I appreciate that. I I just missed the first five 10 minutes of the meeting, so I don't know if I missed something. That's why I said, can we rewind for a quick? >> Sure. Sure. Right. Right. >> Um, but I appreciate it. Thank you.

057>> Yeah. Um, member Willlette, >> I mean, we know what the the global issues are. It's professional development. It's bullying >> and it's staff morale. And that was that was universal across the board. Now, in terms of the cleanliness and the maintenance issues, right, that's something that what I would recommend is that we make sure we have a timetable of when we initially did the surveys and we're going to do hopefully the second round is not a year in duration. Okay? If it's six months, I think that's more reasonable to have a second round of surveys. And then because you're quantifying that aspect, not your feelings, so to speak, but you're quantifying that survey, at least we can check on the the metrics. I I think you know there was some positive items um school

058safety but then you have the school safety with the dynamic of the the bullying. So how can you be an entirely safe school environment when you have drastically deep concerns about bullying? Now I think bullying is not being enforced properly in this school system. I've said that for the last two years. Now whether that has to be a local reform effort or in conjunction with our legislative delegation or working in partnership in looking at puberty because they faced a tragedy of a suicide related to bullying. I think potentially we could experience something like that because when you look at how damning the uh the audit findings were absolutely and it it could be uh a civil rights violations I witnessed in that audit. uh bullying to the point of uh self harm um suicidal thoughts

059um I don't have any hope of having a resolution we've talked about as a school committee the the whole dynamic of having kids potentially in the room the uh the person's bullying in the victim to try to iron out the differences and I've had deep reservations about that um I don't think we're receiving the full reports. So, on that front, um either through a task force or having outside professionals, you know, similar to what the health uh task force, that's a glaring thing that going into the the next uh school year, whoever's on the school committee >> is going to have to really work on that. And again, I can't put it entirely on the local thing because we might have our hands tied of what we're doing, but I know that the teachers are

060crying for help, the parents are crying out for help, and the students are. So, that's universality on a bullying issue. The professional development um again is that that might be uh some budgetary. I would focus on that because you know um member Donovan has been on the forefront of literacy working with representative Hamilton yourself right we know collectively we don't have librarians we don't have enough reading specialists so that was the thing that I know rock bottom is the budget no one's happy with the budget if we've had make uh sacrifices right u but how do you like professional development okay and how do we make sure that's accomplished But then we also talked about librarians we need and and more reading specialists and the STEM supervisors. So that is something that we would have

061to work as a committee. The other thing is the dynamic of uh the the low staff morale and it's uh distrust of the administrators and the distrust of the central office like I took a vote on that. So I with member Maxwell and I or or others right that that if you've looked through this and I hope everybody in this community looks through that audit. Now am I happy entirely with that vehicle of that audit compared to like let's say the the police management study? No. I think the police management study was a better vehicle than this. But if you look at the quantitative surveys, um, it's rock bottom on the things that we should be dealing with, bullying, professional development, and staff morale. So, thank you, member Dy. >> So, may I suggest that

062we set some goals for ourselves tonight? Like, uh, before we leave, we will give Dr. Kong our suggestions on what we want to see for goals or what area. Do we want three? That's a lot because we had seven months to go and you have to collect data and it has to be presented. When are we when is your f like we get it in May? I forget. >> February and June. >> Yeah. I mean we have to be reasonable. So if we pick some areas that we think we can make effective progress and task Dr. Quang and her team with that to come up with the goals. I mean, obviously we're not going to write, you're not going to write them tonight, but come back. >> Um, set up a timeline and move on.

063I mean, from there. So, at least, you know, if we move with purpose tonight, I think we'll all feel better walking out of here knowing that we've had some we have a purpose. Um, I'd also like to see I think it's something worth discussing when this would be readministered because they promised, but I think we need to have more conversations with them about, you know, maybe we'd want to change some of the questions. I don't know. But I would hope we could focus on what kind of goals, what areas we want to focus on for the goals. and looking at those blue areas. I like to give a pitch right now for bullying and um improving communication. I don't know how the rest of you feel about that. Can I I just I'm going to

064hop in and share a thought because I I'm I'm on the same page that you are because >> as I mentioned when the auditors originally were conducting the presentation, I mentioned in my remarks that the audit interviews, the surveys, they represent a snapshot in time where okay, back in February, March, April, there were facilities issues. There were, you know, he had this huge uproar over the budget that lasted for quite some time. And so all of those feelings, all of those sentiments, they were all captured in the survey results, they were captured in the interviews. And so in reading, for instance, uh, you know, the survey data etc. Today you would think that for instance uh the Timony is uh perhaps a a war zone still for rodent issues and the like when in fact

065there has been a demonstrated significant improvement in that time. That improvement is not captured anywhere and that's why I think it's important as member Wlette indicated to continue to go back and review these metrics and you know go back out there and get another temperature check. I think that's something that we need to do. That's very important. But um you know, so when it comes to facilities, we've been making great progress on that. We're going to keep doing that. We're going to keep on it. And I think that that's something that was clearly a major issue. Uh and that's something that we're actively addressing. We've been doing that. We're going to continue to do that. Ditto for the budget. We're in the process of getting uh standing up this uh finance uh subcommittee where you

066know we're going to have this ongoing conversation about the budget. That's something that was an issue flagged in the audit. We're taking tangible action to deal with that going forward. Um, I know uh PD was mentioned, but I I I I like where you're going with bullying where that's something where, okay, let's say with facilities, we had this crisis issue. We brought together everybody into the same room and we've taken these steps and we're following up on that on an ongoing basis. Does it make sense? And this something like this may already be in existence, but this could be our opportunity to maybe establish a bullying task force where we bring in everybody and we really put forward a concerted effort to, you know, and this is going to sound tacky, but it's something that

067I think is important in our society today because our society is so just collectively lost. I I just you you look at the world around us. People have no respect for each other anymore. And I'm saying that in a ve very general type of way, but you know, maybe we get back to, you know, this core messaging to students about just respecting one another. Granted, that's part of what we do now, right? Like I my my a first grader at the CGS talk about being your being your doing your best, right? And all the concepts that go with that. Maybe we really double down on that and we bring in people into the same room and make a concerted effort to address the issue of bullying. I think that would be great. When it comes

068to communication, I'm going to share this as somebody who is a new Methuan public schools parent. I I've never been a Methuan public schools parent until just a couple of weeks ago at the start of the new school year. And on the daily, I'm getting a talking points text. I'm getting an email. I'm getting the newsletter weekly talking points. I'm getting an email. If my child makes a trip to the nurse's office, I get an email saying, "Your child went to the nurse's office." If you didn't get a call, that means it wasn't a major issue, but you may want to follow up with the nurse or the principal. the level of communication that I have been on the receiving end of you know I I look at complaints about communication and just stating this

069objectively I don't know what the hell people are talking about now granted there may be you know variance in terms of lived experience at maybe one school or another uh comparatively speaking but I'm speaking from my own personal experience I I think there's a tendency to and and I don't mean this in any negative way almost overcommunicate that that that's just my experience at the CGS. Mrs. Pyeti is always sending out these newsletters and I'm getting these uh the the messages from the teacher and I'm I'm personally pleased with the level of communication I've been receiving as a parent. So I think that the thing that we need to be cognizant of is that in these audit findings there is a very uh diverse array of perceptions that are also in the mix here. So

070there may be another parent say at another school they don't perceive that the level of communication is up to snuff. Others might. So, you know, I think we need to be cognizant of the perception side of it, too, and how that influences any of these results. But again, getting back, I'm kind of getting off on a lecture, and I don't mean to do that. I think we do need to hone in on one area that was flagged as a major issue, something that, you know, there is opportunity for progress. I think that issue is bullying. And I think if we were to just dive in collectively as a community, we're tackling the issue of literacy. This idea where, you know, literacy, it's not just up to the schools. It's not just up to parents. It

071is a communitywide we're one big methan family concept where we're all in on the idea of literacy. And you know what? I think the same goes for bullying. I think that there are kids out there in this city, they have terrible role models in their life. they haven't had demonstrated for them what it means to be respectful. And so I think we need to have a communitywide effort to tackle the issue of bullying where we're collectively adults, kids, everybody in between uh dealing with this issue. And so if I were to right here say which one we what's the next task force, I'd go with bullying. And I'm off on a tangent. I apologize. member will >> I I just I concur with you because I did talk about bullying having like a task force

072on it because I think uh what member Denovan said is exactly right. If we can get at least some type of uh action plan tonight of things a sense of the committee like what through the the mayor when can we anticipate the next survey that could be sent out and you would work on that front. um when in a few weeks um the establishment of a bullying uh task force and having members from the district attorney's office potentially the McDan police department outside uh mental health u people within the administration maybe one or two school committee members some parents um I think that's absolutely uh crucial um and then also like the professional development I think is already in the in the notes um but I And if we can get something tonight that we

073we're going to say, okay, we know in a few weeks we're going to have something reported back to us, I think is so crucial because we can go back and forth, but we have to as a committee uh do some action uh tonight and make some recommendations. Thank you. >> Sure. Um >> I'm off the soap box. No, no. I I am appreciating the direction this is going because the fact that you are all nodding and agreeing, you know, to some degree is very helpful to give me direction. Um, I agree. I think we're trying to narrow the focus. Um, and it certainly helps if we're all in agreement what that focus is to actually make it work. Um so yeah I think maybe we don't call it a bullying task force but we that

074idea I think we have seen success. Um it would just take some time to like structure you know like who and how and how you know we're we're taxing a lot of people in the community for different ways like these are evening going to have to be evening meetings right uh you know who who's willing to do those how we're going to get people together purpose facilitation I I think that's what I would need a little bit of time maybe to think about with my team on what we could make that look like to have it be purposeful I think would be the most important >> and also I think too is uh reaching out to pee because they experienced a tragedy. >> So they they had a summit >> and they might have some

075concrete recommendations and they might be recommending uh legislation through their delegation. >> Um and maybe we approach the governor's office and say this is such a major uh issue not only in Mthorne but probably even statewide. we need something um tools, better tools to handle the situation. Now, it might be sometimes referrals to outside services. It might be some additional monies. It could be uh giving us um better tools legislatively. Um I think also like you mentioned um you have to learn racism somewhere. You have to learn uh bullying somewhere. And I think at times the kids will mimic the parents in the home front and sometimes it's a defense mechanism. My my parents bully me, they bully each other. Um so I'm going to go to school. I'm going to mimic what the parents

076are doing because that's all I've that's my mindset. So I think you touched on something too is that at times the bully can be the the victim because they're experiencing something. Because if you talk about racism is not uh it's a a learned behavior. Kids are not born racist. They they learn it. And we have to tap out and say no, we don't we don't encourage racism. We encourage diversity and history and and understanding. And I think the be kind is also a different component of that as well. Uh but I think I think it bullying would be to me the the focal point right now. I would add a comment to this and just to make sure that you are all one of the things I know we have experienced is that if we're

077going to do something like this it's going to go big or go home right so and I I mean that in the sense of I haven't said that in a while um when we talk about community one of the things that does frequently land in schools with kids is all of the community sports and groups and Pop Warner. And so, so if we're talking community, right, kids are having issues on these teams outside of the school day. How do we bring in those groups? How do we bring in, you know, youth soccer and youth hockey and to so that we're all talking the same language, right? Because I think there is behavior that might be accepted in some arenas that wouldn't be accepted in other arenas that we have to be very thoughtful of and

078educate. Right. So, are we on the same page with that? Like, if we're going to talk about this, we're talking big, right? >> Are you thinking? >> Let's make let's make this our issue. >> Okay? >> Because I think that here's the thing, and correct me if I'm wrong, and we'll chime in, but if if this is something that we can address and make meaningful progress, future generations will be better off for it. And this is something that I think we can collectively start taking a whack at. Uh, membership, member Maxwell, >> just quick question for my own morbid curiosity. When you talk about the soccer league and the hockey league and the popner and all the other folks, >> y >> have we ever reached out to them before, tried to bring them in

079and work together? >> Not on issues like this, logistic things or recreational things, sure, but not that impact behaviors in both groups. No, >> not that I'm aware of. I don't >> because I I mean just in my limited experience I could see an opportunity where fostering those relationships would be beneficial just across the board not even just with bullying. >> So >> I mean I think and I want to say just because they use our facil we probably have the most uh fluid relationship with youth basketball but that's probably more out of convenience than like us making that happen. We know most people in the youth basketball leagues because we they use our facilities. They're always around. There are kids like there seems to be more connection with youth b basketball in our buildings

080and the kids and who's on whose teams. Um that and again out of convenience mostly not because we're trying to structure some this would be very different. I mean this would be this is big right because you you have to get everybody to the table and you have to get everybody to the table to agree to have the conversation about what our expectations are for kids. And it's sounds easy uh but it's it's I'm up for the challenge. I mean this is this is something I you know I think it will help us understand more specifically be get to what the misconceptions are where the education needs to be what families are dealing with and what kinds of I know you called it summit member will let but like what kinds of supports and resources

081do our kids need do our family maybe we're just not thinking of Oh, the door locked. Oh, I'm sorry. That was recorded. >> Maxwell, >> few things. Um, so I know a few years ago I know that there's a local gym, House of Athletes, um, in town and I know that I know Brendan personally and I know that he would be more than happy to get into the schools. I know you've met with him a few times. I'm not sure why that hasn't happened, but I know that he would be a great advocate for this. And I mean, he has access to the Pop Warner kids, the basketball kids, the wrestling kids. He has access to all of these kids. He's a major component in the community community. Um I know that bullying is our

082number one concern. I I would like to recognize the other issues as well. I mean, I know in this um in this um presentation, it doesn't mention anything about the IEP compliance, and that was another huge concern um when it came to the audit and um that the concerns were, you know, failure to failure in IEP implementation, budget and staffing issues, severely restricted delivery of required special ed services. I think when half of our budget is going to special ed, we really need to hone in on our IEP compliance and why it's not happening and effective. Um the other issue that was really noted um and I I mean I've also asked for those reports back in July. I was told I'd get them September, October. I still don't have them. So the other issue

083that is frequently mentioned in the audit is PD. Um, so as much as I want to focus a lot of our energy on bullying, I am 100% behind that. I really want to hone in on the IEP compliance and the PD2 because I think that those are going to be morale. I think that's going to boost morale with the PD. I think that that's going to boost morale with the kids with the IEP compliance issues. So, um, if we could kind of somehow fit those issues in here as well too, that would be great. So I if you look at the PD1 here on the the districtwide piece. So I've added a couple things. I'll let Dr. Gowski talk because we've had some conversations about this on the note on the bottom. It's interesting to

084us and I just want to make sure that everybody understands uh I've shared this this is this is not new. I've shared it with the audit committee that you know these questions were geared towards teachers against administrators. Right? There were no specific questions for administrators and what their role is in their school and their district. There was no separate questions for like support staff or secretaries or cafeteria employees, custodian. There were not separate sections, right? So these questions were very much geared towards the teacher and their perception of everything else. Right? So, I'm trying to take that into account when I'm reading this that our administrative team didn't have an opportunity to answer questions about what they're experiencing because they're in the front lines of parents and staff and people not being um compliant right

085with with things. So, I'm trying to keep that into perspective. um the professional development piece here. Um having been doing this for 14 years in this district, right, assistant superintendent responsible for PD, I've been very intimately involved in PD being superintendent. Um and we have found over the course of the 10 plus years that we've been doing this that that sometimes teachers have a very uh different perspective on what is needed or what is requested. Um, and this is what I mean, right? Because in their contract, I'm required to give them certain PD on programs that we need to implement. So that's what we do. We only have five half days and a full day, right? So while there is there's a very uh stressed feeling of our staff of the fact that we have

086to spend most of our year talking about CKLA implementation with our K4 teachers because we have to we have to do that. But that's not the only thing they do and teach right so that's where that tension starts coming from because I only have two hours with them on half days and six hours with them on a full day. So there's just not enough time to do all those things in a given year. And we've struggled with that my whole career here since principal to now. How do we build in that time? Um and so one of the things that we have found and we've ebed and flowed with this idea and again Dr. Los Gowski and I already talked about it. Uh she's going to already talk to the PD council about it. We

087have a PD council also contractual that consists of teachers and administrators. So we have a council of usually not more than 10 10 12 total. >> Um 14 >> 14. Okay, that was close. All right. So, you know, a dozen staff that talk about the PD calendar, how things are going to be arranged, what we need for every any given day. Some of that is decided because we have CLA, right? Like there's just there's some things that I'm required to do. People may not always like it, but I have to give them the proper PD to implement a new program. And so what we have found, and this is going back to my time as assistant superintendent, is that when teachers teachers give the best reviews, um, meaning we do PD evaluations, and Dr. Labski

088can pull those up. You do an evaluation after every half day and every full day, a liyker scale one through five on topics on uh do you want this again, right? It informs each each group, each person who leads those uh PD sessions like that was a flop or do that again, right? Um and so our whole team looks at those every time. It's like a it's it works like clockwork, right? It goes out usually within 48 hours. Lisa then sends the whole spreadsheet out to all the the administrative team who was leading. So we know that presenter there was one particular presenter this this last uh day that I was like amazing that uh basically everybody gave a five to and we don't usually see that very often right like everybody uh really enjoyed

089this it was new lots of information she was dynamic so we have to balance the time that teachers have on their own to digest is typically the time they they want time they want like prep time to do that they think they need to do. Usually they know what they need to do, right? We just don't have a lot of that time to give. Am I making sense? So, we're trying to figure out like how can we schedule these we have to have you in front of people to teach you how to use something that might be new, right? Or have conversations about trauma-informed instruction, right? Or IEP compliance or how to use a certain program because that's part of PD, right? If we're using a certain new program, we have to give people time

090to understand how to do it. Balance that with is the next time then now you work with your team. You're digesting it. You have that work time that you need to make sense of it. Am I making sense to everybody? So, so we've we've how do we do that this year? That's what she's going to work on with the team. Um that's what I make sense of that PD. Um because again I've seen that eb and flow and uh it's hard because if we had five full days it still wouldn't be enough right and so I mean is that a conversation for um for us and calendar and you know but contractually we only have so many days in the school year to to work with right I'm like what's happening >> I had one

091quick question >> so that's ongoing it's not like we're not so so I I say that for a couple reasons. Everything on here that we've bulleted is part of our conversation, right? It's not we're not we're taking this to see what actually is the most useful parts of this that we can make some sense of and roll with and move forward with. So, it might not be a goal that's on my formal goals. That doesn't mean we're not doing it. There's a lot of things that happen in the district that are not on my goals, right? I think we know that for everybody. But, you know, I agree there's some focus and then there's some followup on what we're doing to see it differently that hopefully would come out in something like another survey or

092something of that nature. >> Sure. I'll just add to that um from pursuing various grant funds, we're in some nice cycles with outside providers um from many grade levels and subject areas um where formal PD has been planned for the days that are as Dr. Kong said limited in terms of opportunity. So we've also become creative um in having those outside consultants come for job embedded professional development and help with um CP planning but also modeling lessons, co-eing lessons with teachers um during a typical school day. So we're looking forward to adding that too. Um I feel like at this point this year we're in a much better place than as you said mayor when the survey was given um through the receipt of those grant funds and plans. Um and I think this issue

093I think comes back to the threat of communication that we talked about earlier um where in my mind I know um where we've projected to go with PD um and I think um we can do a better job communicating that to teachers as well. So, I think the PD issue is is also rooted in communication um which I have another meeting with the council um next week. Max, excuse me, member Wlette, did you want to say something? >> So, member Donovan. >> Okay. I I I just always am that person that needs to summarize. So, we've given Dr. Hang and her team the directive to focus on the goal and I heard what you said Miss Maxwell but I mean I just want to make sure we're all on the same page and they we

094all walk out of here saying here's what we're going to expect the bullying but bullying and discipline policies correct do we all >> am I am I on the right am I on the same page >> that's where that's the direction we're going >> okay but I just should we wrap that up are we all done with that piece >> I mean I think for for me I'd say that if that's like now I'm going to f right now I have to talk to the team like I can talk to people to actually develop something. I think that's where I'd like to go is there's a lot of people who are not here who need to be part of this conversation about >> just to fill in member Dugagley >> we're launching a war on

095bullying. >> Yes. But I I I just my my thing about this meeting is I thought we was going to still talk about the audit >> because I still have questions and I thought CBZ was going to be in on this meeting because I still have questions about how they did the audit because >> I asked this too. >> Oh, okay. >> Because I'm just wondering >> something to keep in mind too. Um, so the there was no plan to have CBIS here because we can't like have them back over and over again for meetings. We can probably have one to two more big meetings with them. Um, but the thing is is that they also they have contact information. I actually should mention that. I don't know if it's in the actual audit report,

096>> but if there are questions that we have about specific methodologies, etc., feel free to reach out to the Yeah. right on the on the last page of the report, Jared and Kelly, they provided their email addresses. Feel free to reach out to them with any any questions. >> I know I had asked them about the Malden comparable district. Did they send that to anybody? >> I haven't seen the Malden comparison yet, but I can follow up with them, but again, you know, feel free to reach out to them directly as well. >> They wouldn't have given us their email if they weren't open to that. Also, as a point of clarification, if you have questions on how the audit was done, I think as a subcommittee, we may be able to answer most of

097them because it's it's methodical and functional versus what they did. You know what I mean? We know what they did because they they printed it for us. >> Yeah. No, no, no. And that's why I I thought that was >> well I think what would be what would be beneficial is if in fact I think some of the other members if they weren't anyone who wasn't a part of the working group for the audit if you want to reach out directly to CBIS you know versus even the members of the working group they're I'm sure happy to provide an outline of methodology and answer any follow-up questions we could certainly we're going to have we're going to have them back for sure but we just want to be I I don't know is is latigious

098the word about our timing. I don't that may not be the right word I'm looking for, but you know, be just very careful about the timing. >> We we want to we want to not ligious. Not that's a bad word. I don't know. >> Strategic. Strategic. >> I I went to bed last night at like 2:45, so I'm not really uh my lawyer. >> Yeah. >> I just wanted to say one thing. I've just been listening to all of your conversation tonight. If you do reach out to CBiz and if you do it by email, just recognize that anything that you send will be a public record. Okay? So, just caution you about what you put in that email and what you say. So, just wanted to remind you of that. Okay? >> Member will

099>> again from my perspective looking at all the schools bullying was universally rated at the worst. And then the comments, so you look at the qualitative, the comments was a sense of hopelessness from staff, from parents, and from students. So if we take anything from this audit tonight, now she has her, you know, with her action plans and her recommendations and we'll follow up on that as a school committee. But if we take anything from tonight is that we have a significant bullying issue that's reinforced in this audit and we have an obligation to do something about it. And I think she's going to run with it as a as a big function of what's going to occupy us. And I know what's going to happen is after the election, we're going to have new

100members of the city council automatically, new members of the school committee automatically, and they should be invited as part of that process. Um, so like that's for my perspective on that. And I also want to know that the survey within a matter of weeks will be given to the community again to again like you said the snapshot and see if we have improved on the metrics because it's what it comes down to is the metrics and then every single year if we have a major goal and then I think the theme of the audit was to survey the community as best we can. Now, the numbers again, I I understand what member Shabilia is saying. You're never going to get 100%. But I think if we have multiple rounds of the survey, you might be

101able to increase that second round more people that will participate in the survey. Maybe they've been able to digest it. Maybe it's been circulated, it's promoted. I think all that is healthy. So, that would be my mindset on that. Again, for the for the record, I'm not happy with the vehicle, the audit compared to what I was I read the police management uh study, but at the same time too, you have quantitative information that is just a clarion call on bullying that we have to really focus on. Now, this and it's the dynamic is the school safety rated well. So I don't know how you can have discipline issues, bullying, but then they rate the school safety. So maybe cameras and the, you know, the school resource officers or, you know, monitoring things or the

102cameras on the buses, whatever that is. It has a strange dichconomy and I don't know we have to really survey on that again because you talk about school safety rated highly but then uh discipline and bullying rated uh poorly with the membership uh of the community. So I don't know >> just to add to the dichotomy of that the discipline we had twice the number of out of school suspensions than than average right so while it's perceived the discipline's a problem statistics are showing us based on hard data that our discipline is actually harsh. So there's something weird about that, right? Because we've got school safety, that's okay, bullying, that's terrible, and our discipline is out of control. >> And I think also just to piggyback on what you were saying, the RZ is not

103universal within our school system. So I think ultimately you want to have inhouse suspensions because I think if you do out of school suspension, sometimes you have to do it, sometimes you have to do expulsions. We've had these conversations, right? But I think you putting someone that might be going back into a home environment that might not be conducive to them and maybe working through the issues in a in-house suspension. I think that's something as a budget we really have to work on because if we only have I think at two schools, right? That's something too that would be part of that dynamic as well. >> Member. So to member Wlette's point and the the topic has come up in conversation with constituents over the last what is it almost a month now since this

104has been out. Why isn't it like the PD audit? I think it's worth just acknowledging that Mthuan PD and keep me honest is what 104ish. The one the major difference is it's a much smaller department and everybody wanted to be a part of that process >> and there was not enough money in the city coffers to allow CBIZ to interview and have the time to do every single employee at MPS and then a section of parents and then a section of students. we would have been a multi-million dollar audit which I and price aside I advocated for and I'm sure the mayor will tell you that I sat at his table in his office and said we should be doing everybody knowing full well we couldn't but I think that is what people need to

105understand is when you're trying to audit something as large as do public schools you can't take the same approach you took with the PD we have more lower school teachers than they have an entire department And it's unfortunate because that audit was phenomenal >> and again this is constructive dialogue and I've heard feedback from city councilors too is that the police management audit had an executive summary and it had really a bonafide listing of recommendations and there were recommendations but it was scattered and there were um highlights of people's comments. ments and I think just the way it was constructed was different. I know that again the the universe is small with the the police department obviously and the people were trumping at the bits and I think best practices too was you don't want

106to reveal uh names and they emphasize that you cannot everything's confidential. I want to also emphasize that too any survey right it would be independent review and and compiling right we've never had someone internally review the survey results like someone did a survey and we couldn't map out who that person was it was done by a third party and I think we have to emphasize that too because there might be some misinformation that people say if I do the survey is it going to come back to me because I'm saying things confidentially or I have comments. Um, so I'm hoping and optimistic that a second round now that the audit is being produced and again I'm trying not to be too critical of saying like you is it is kind of like apples and oranges

107the police management study versus the audit and there is like things for potentially we could work on. Um, but again, I want to know what the timetable is uh when we're going to because we spent $140,000. I think the police study was what 80. So there was a differential in price even though it was a smaller universe. So I want to get the biggest bang for the buck. And I also want to you talk about the action items every single year we should be doing some type of vehicle like this to a third party to get something for the school committee that we get a report of have we between the years have we done any improvement on the metrics. So that's something too that we at least can quantify something from because we there's

108a nebulous thing about feelings because I might be something totally different. you're looking at an elephant and someone might be looking at a donkey because you're someone's blindfold and someone's reaching out or something like that. Again, everybody has a different perspective, but if you can you can quantitatively study it from year to year and give people an opportunity to do those surveys, I think that simply should be something as part of an action plan, too. >> And I I think you're you're definitely on to something. And just speaking as somebody who was involved with that process from the PD side a couple years ago with that audit, just being on the council at the time, I think something that is another difference just as part of our conversation here is that you know when it

109comes to the issues with the uh school department, you have people if you if you read through the survey results, if you read through the audit, you have some people who are expressing sentiments that reflect a very positive experience with the school uh system and there are people with negative perceptions as well and those are included here and a lot of the issues and I don't mean to say that any of these issues are abstract they're not uh but like bullying professional development you know those are issues that you know it mean it can mean something different to different people it's more conceptual whereas with the PD just to reference what was said I know you mentioned some counselors might be thinking this um you know with the PD you had uh very uh concrete

110issues that they were dealing with where you had uh fake jobs created for friends and family. There were was favoritism in hiring. They were skipping over people on the list uh for promotions. There were illegal cont these illegal promotions. People promoted with four city council votes instead of five. You need five for crying out loud. Uh the contracts would have bankrupted the city. All these different issues, all the corruption. It was something that was very concrete and you know everybody was chomping at the bit to be able to tell their story and to share uh their perspective. uh in this I I I think you know I agree with the the thought of you know we want to get the best bang for our buck certainly but I think in terms of uh the school

111audit versus the PD audit there are just enough differences in my view that you know kind of have that degree of separation but again nevertheless circling back to the here and now with the schools you know that's why I think we need to get after this notion of for instance bullying it is a concept but I think it's part of the effort to really tackle it, you know, we can address it in more of a concrete way. >> Just very briefly because you have valid points very briefly. The common theme that I saw between this and the police was that there were uh allegations of favoritism and that's something that we has a system we have to correct that someone is favoring one person over the other. um that my my issues are not being

112fulfilled but someone else's issues are being fulfilled that um that the student is always right or the parent is right or a teacher is always right or someone is connected to that person. So, but that was uh the qualitative. It wasn't the quantitative. I know what you're talking because you had concrete recommendations and there was like definite ethical violations in play. And again, obviously, it's going to go through its process. We don't want to comment on it. We know that the other aspect of it. Um but that was the thing. If I was going to say the commonality between this audit and the police management was again instances of people saying favoritism, one party favored over the other. So I don't know how we address that. >> Member Maxwell. >> Um two things. Sorry I

113had to step out. So, I don't know if somebody else mentioned this, but um when it comes to the discipline, um I would just like to maybe have a discussion on in-house suspension, detention, and restorative practices. Um I think that without those, it's kind of not it's not going to make a difference. Um however, to piggyback off of the favoritism comments, we had a lot of favoritism comments in this audit as well. So, I'd like to know where those comments are directed. Where is the favoritism? Is there favoritism in staffing and hiring and students and IEPs? Like, where is the favoritism? Because that wasn't um that wasn't fully understood in the audit. Um, but I just want to kind of go back to the discipline process, detention, in-house, restorative practices. I think that that would

114be a healthy discussion to have, you know, because discipline is just such a broad term, maybe break it down to where we need to focus our energy and efforts. That's all. >> Um, just going off of everything with with the of the audit with especially the nepotism and the favoritism which we've we've heard from staff. I know I've heard it for the last six years where teachers felt like they were singled out, previous teachers that I have left, which I'm not going to bring up hearsay, but I know staff members that I work with now that came from methan and the reason why they left is because of the environment that they were in. Um, some of them took a 40 to $50,000 pay cut because they didn't like how the environment that they were

115working in. Um, that's that's another thing about this audit where I was wondering how many previous employees did we try to reach out to because I feel like that those those interviews would also give a clear picture as well of why are people leaving? Because you could throw money at people and say, "Okay, we we'll move you up, give you a raise." But if they don't feel like the environment is good for them, no matter how much money you pay them, they're not going to stay. So the question is like this is a good way to start, but I also want to I want to hit the point of why did previous staff members leave too? Because like I said, I want to know it was it nepotism that caused them to leave or money

116could have been an issue, but as we just saw in the audit, nepotism and favoritism is is a big part of why the morale in our school system is low. So, I just want to see what we could do to channel on that specifically. Thank you. I I think the the problem is is again I hate to piggyback back on the uh the police management is because they did it a small universe. They did separate one-on-one interviews that were confidential. I don't know if it was um through online surveys or they they targeted uh staff um and they got they got feedback and they probably was very revealing. Maybe at some point we do something with a third party and uh person will have a random selection and say would you like to participate in

117a one-on-one survey or interview um to really go into a deep dive into this school system. Um again the there is advantageous nature to this of having a quantitative information. I think we should be doing it on an annual basis but like I think we need to go deeper because I think what was reflected in that audit I think is is very u damning uh overall and I don't know what the solution is other than but we we have limited resources we would have to focus on the municipality doing that but I mean that's food for thought because I think member Dagloio and I think by extension member Maxwell I think we have people's voices, but I want to also quantify those voices and find out exactly what was going on. I think talking about

118having exit interviews um and and also giving someone when you talk about best practices, everything is kept confidentially. There's a firewall. Nothing is given to the organization being audited. And I think you're spending more money to do something like that, but it might also be productive to the school system and have those results published for the the public. It's almost like a truth commission, but it's a confidential uh truth commission. So, I think at this point to try to land the plane, at least for tonight, there's a lot to go through with the audit. We have a lot to go through I think with this document. I think this it's good to have this so and we can digest this and and use this as a framework for our discussion going forward. But I think

119what we have to do is we have all this information, all these different things to consider. I think the key is to really narrow this down into bite-sized pieces. What do we want to focus on next? I think we've established tonight collectively the main issue that we want to focus on and you know kind of branch that off and have that be a separate focus area and then you know from that point you know perhaps we can connect and uh determine um you know we can have additional follow-up meetings where we go through some of these other areas that are not in the context of say bullying for example and you know this is something that should be an ongoing conversation you Well, again, as you referenced, you know, continuing to go after additional followup

120uh, you know, efforts in terms of gathering metrics. Um, this is just going to be something that we have to keep at the front forefront of our mind and stay after. >> I don't know if we're ending the meeting. I just I just want to make it clear that I I don't mean for this to come off as like rude or insensitive or anything. I just feel like this was kind of a waste of time because we didn't really um go through the audit like I had assumed we were going to. Um we didn't really ask the questions that we wanted to ask. We didn't really address. I mean, there are a lot of issues that were in this in this audit that I know I've been talking about as a parent for eight years.

121Um, so to just to just kind of push that stuff aside, I feel like we're not really making any progress. We're just pushing sweeping things under the rug yet again. Um, so we can, you know, we can motion to close the meeting, but I don't know, the past two hours have been a total waste of time. >> I disagree. I We have to have a direction and we're going in a direction. We're focusing on bullying and I think that's very important and we're going to have this ongoing conversation. I don't think that's a waste of time. With all due respect, member Maxwell, um, what else do we have? >> Is it is it fair to say that for the October 27th workshop meeting to have a draft of this particular goal that will allow me

122the time with my team to structure something around this to present to you all on the 27th? That's our next workshop meeting. Our regular meeting is the 27th, a week and a half. Are we good? >> Is that fair? I mean, I don't we have a lot of meetings happening, but for a regular meeting, I could present the goals again with this included in the actual goal sheet again with some structure to talk to folks. Yes. >> Yes. Okay. >> Um, so are we saying that bullying is going to be the only additional goal? >> No. Okay then. >> So I feel like yeah that right that's why I was asking >> so this is is am I creating this and trying to create an actual goal with measurable structure and adding that to my

123already developed goals and adding others like how many that's the next task force that's going to be the next collective community issue that I think we need to get after as a community. >> I also think we need to keep an understanding that not everything is a goal in the sense that it needs to be on the goals, right? Everything in this packet we need to work on as a district, >> but not everything goes on your goals. You also have a job. >> I think um through the chair, I think we have you have immediate immediately I think we have to as a committee focus on bullying and discipline because that's crying out to us. So that's should be our focus. At least for me, that's what I want because that shows it from

124every single school. Okay. Then you have like again you have your immediate and intermediate and you have long-term and some of this is dealing with with budget that we're going to be starting in in January about. Some of it it's it's policy. Some of it's internally working with with with the teachers or maybe even working with the state because with the state I'd love to have some more information on how the state helps with professional development. If someone wants to do independent on boarding and professional development are there any incentive programs outside of us giving money. Maybe the teachers want to do something else and they get monetary incentives. They can do independent onboarding on their own time. Um, I think what it is was they want to have that structure to be able to

125do like I I hate to say like you know uh look at correcting papers or catching up on their lesson plans or something like it's it's a difficult I want to make sure >> that we're working with the teachers and we also have a partner with the state that it's not complicated to do potentially on boarding with professional development and maybe something we approach is maybe there's monetary incentives for people to do certification ation and onboarding and professional development. I don't know. But I again I don't have the same knowledge as the administrators, but that's something I maybe they can report back to us in a few weeks. I'm looking at the the bottom of the barrel of major issues, the the low marks collectively, every single school that you looked at was was obviously

126the budget. No one is happy with collectively. Okay. we have to work professional development, bullying, uh staff morale, uh and then a vision for the the school system. I mean, that's kind of nebulous, but you know, but definitely if I was going to say three things, that's what I beginning of this conversation, that's what I meant. Bullying, discipline, okay, something we definitely have to tackle. Professional development, I I would love to have that ongoing conversation, have a separate workshop on that. The staff morale We we knew that that was a major issue. I know member Dagaloo talking about the the favoritism that's been reflected the sense of hopelessness from uh teachers, staff, parents and students regarding bullying and and discipline. Um so for me and then also I want to make sure that we have

127some timetable for the survey to be replicated again and second opportunity another crack at the apple. That to me is action plans. But, you know, I don't know what else to say besides that. I'm I'm totally on board with that. Yeah. >> So, I I don't know if we could bring this back, but the mayor and I might the mayor might remember this. How parents used to come in and they would bring like cards about different scenarios. It could be bullying, drugs. I don't know if you remember when they brought that when we were younger. and they would they would have us role play in in how to interact with each other and different scenarios and how we treat each other um like bullying wise etc. I just remember it was Kim Marino's mom and

128Dylan Fredro's mom that did it for us. Um, and that was great because we had parents coming in and teaching us how to interact with each other. And it was a program. I'll never forget the cards they would bring and they would tell us the scenarios. Well, you will bully this per child and they would say, "How would that make you feel if it was done?" And it taught us little by little how do we solve problems? But it was done by parents. And I don't know, maybe that's something for the middle schools and lower schools we bring back where parents that went through a program. Again, they would have they they were trained. I remember they had to take classes for this to make sure that they were the right people to do this

129job. Um I wouldn't want some parents to be doing this job. Um, but I would say that's something that maybe can be a counterpart to to that bullying scenario is bringing the parents involved and having them interact. I don't know. I I I just remember those little programs that we used to have growing up where taught us about how to interact with each other and respect each other. And I feel like we need to stop bringing that back, like community involvement and involving in our schools. That's that's something maybe we can do by tackling this issue. >> Maxwell. >> Um, okay. So, I'm I wrote down some goals that I came up with. Um, and I don't think that any of them in particular need to be implemented, but I thought I could maybe give

130you some for suggestions and if you liked any, maybe you could use them. But I came up with the goals and then the action plans, but I won't go through the action plans unless you are interested. Um, so one being strengthen school culture, leadership, and communication, improve PD relevance and effectiveness. Uh, three, ensure safe and healthy and well-maintained facilities. Four, increase consistency in student discipline and bullying response. Um, and by doing that, increase staff training on restorative practice by June 2026, hold annual training on trauma-informed discipline practice, and monitor data uh quarterly to ensure consistency. Number five was enhance family and community engagement. Six, expand mental health and counseling because we heard a lot about mental health and um licensed um counselors that we need. Um and then seven, strengthen datadriven accountability and public reporting.

131Um those are just a few that I looking through here. I just I know we were discussing your goals and you were looking for input from the committee, so I just threw together some. Um, if you'd like my actions or anything with that, maybe we can chat after or whatever. But those are my suggestions that I >> I think there's a there's opportunity for because remember I have three pretty solid goals for this strategy plan, right? So where some of what you just said could be infused >> into some of those as actions. Uh because that was some of what I was trying to think of too when I added some of the items to like the communication, right? Like some of these it can be added to what is already here, right? And so

132how do we do that? So it makes sense so that there's a focus for me as well on not to because again me having 10 goals I might as well throw in the towel. I I I don't know that's not feasible or reasonable. Um you know four goals, five goals, that's what is recommended. So, uh, it's how do we, and I agree, member should be, I think you said it right, not everything has to be a goal, but if we're in agreement that some things are priorities for us, that's that's what you should tell me to move forward with, right? And if we're all in agreement, that for me is the easy. That's why I said the bullying one seems pretty unanimous at this point that we need to create something and I'm going to

133have to be the person to be the leader to create that to try to figure out what we do with that. Right. So I do see that as a goal. I I see that as a goal on my goal that makes sense to me. It needs to be focused on everybody needs to be involved and you all agree that that is something we want to see movement, >> right? No. >> So, there might be some other places to add in and infuse some of the things you just said if you want to share those with me. You know, some of the other I I mean, I can still create a draft to bring to the 27th with some things you share with me. I gives me a few more days to look at it. >>

134That makes sense. What social media, right? That I mean I the communication and just add some more ideas to like social media. think right the goals as is that we discussed a few weeks ago are a template right they're sort of the foundation and we we said that we agreed that those have to be in there right we we have the work to do with literacy and engagement and um a focus on the finance right we have those uh how do we infuse some of these other things that make sense to keep an eye on some level of specificity within those could be very helpful so yes please share those with me. >> Yeah. Okay, great. Thank you. >> Um the other thing that I think that you had highlighted in this that I think

135we really do need to focus on is staff morale y and you know the program that celebrates staff accomplishments recognizing staff members at least once a year. I think I think that's an important thing to add to your goals because I think we really do need to figure out how to raise staff morale. Yep. >> And that one might be on its own or infused. I can't haven't gotten that far yet, but Willlet, >> I think the operative word I' I've used it in the past myself and you highlighted it was triage. What that's the bullying discipline is absolutely universal. Um so that's something if we have something in a in a few weeks >> like something that we can go ride with I think absolutely I think what um member Dunovan and others talked

136about was a positive influence on social media and I think even having YouTube of having people voluntarily read or maybe reaching out to people in the u basketball stars we've had you know maybe we can reach out to that and maybe do something with that. Um I think in life of having that profile um recognition of staff um maybe that will bolster the morale um incremental things like that but uh the triage was the bullying discipline I would say Donovan. Okay, I feel ready. All right. This is an ongoing conversation. All right. Do we have anything else for tonight? >> Do we have a motion? Uh >> All right. >> Second. >> Motion to adjourn from member Wlette, second from member Daglio. All those in favor? >> I >> opposed. The eyes have it roughly

1372 minutes before 7 o'clock. We're adjourned. Good night mur. [Music]