Methuen School Committee 10-14-2025

001[Music] Good evening. The school committee business session of October 14, 2025 will now come to order. This meeting is being recorded and will be made available for viewing on the Mthuan Public Schools website. Secretary, would you please call the role? >> Ryan Daglio, >> present. >> Mayor Beth Dunovan, >> here. >> Lori Keegan, >> present. >> Christ Maxwell, >> present. Dan Chabilia >> here. >> Dennis Wlette >> here. >> Mayor Boragod >> here. We need a motion and a second to accept the amended agenda for October 14th, 2025 as presented. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Motion from member Shabilia, second from the vice chair. Discussion. Member Shabilia. >> Um I would like to make a motion to amend the agenda to move business from the committee up under public participation. Seeing all of these

002folks in the room, I have an assumption as to why most of them are here. I don't think it's fair for us to keep them till 10 o'clock. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> We have a motion from member Shabilia, the second from the vice chair to move other business from the committee in its entirety up to the point uh just after public participation. Uh, we'll take a roll call vote on the proposed amendment. >> Member Daglio, >> yes. >> Member Donovan, >> yes. >> Member Keegan, >> yes. >> Member Maxwell, >> yes. >> Member Shabilia, >> yes. >> Member Wlette, >> yes. >> Mayor Boragard, >> yes. >> So, the agenda has been amended. Do we have any other further amendments before we entertain a motion to adopt the agenda as amended?

003Member Maxwell. Um just wanted to state that you know um the language of this agenda has been politicized dramaticized to bring unnecessary attention to real concerns brought forward by parents. I just want to keep in mind and I want to on the record just ask how we will create an environment where all voices are heard and not um just assumed. So I just wanted to clarify why I would vote present on the um agenda of the acceptance of the agenda. Thank you, Member Maxwell. At this point, we need a I'll ask for a motion and a second to accept the agenda now with the amendment. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Motion from member Shabilia. Second from the vice chair. >> There's no further discussion. We'll vote. All those in favor say I. >> I.

004>> Opposed. The eyes have it. So other business will now be just after public participation. Uh superintendent, I'll invite you to introduce our student for tonight's flexible. Thank you. Um I'm happy to invite uh Katie Peruetti, the supervising principal for the CGS up tonight for our student flag salute. Uh flag salute student for tonight is really what I should have said. Maria >> She's ready. She's ready to do it right now. I love it. >> Good evening everyone. I'm proud to present Maria Abby Samra, a phenomenal fourth grade student from the CGS who will be leading our flag salute tonight. Maria has been part of the CGS family since kindergarten and from day one she has been known for her kindness and all-around great attitude. Her teacher, Mrs. Barbosza, didn't hesitate for a second when

005recommending her for this honor. She says Maria is a kind and empathetic student. She has a lot of curiosity about all the subjects which drive her learning. She's a hard worker and contributes to class discussions all the time. Right. Her light-heartedness in class and the way she takes on challenges with a positive attitude is always appreciated. She's a wonderful team player and has a cooperative spirit with others. Mrs. Barbosza noted that Maria has many strengths, including gymnastics, math, and reading. Her dad's an engineer and her mom's a scientist. She's got it all going on. When she's not reading a favorite realistic fiction story or crushing math problems, you can find her tumbling on the mats of gymnastics. Her favorite subject is math, although she does enjoy them all. Maria from comes from a very close-knit

006family, including mom, dad, her brother Peter, that's seven, and one little sister named Elena that is four. When questioned about short-term goals, Maria shared, "I'd like to learn about algebra this year and advance my math skills. Eventually, I'd like to be in advanced math. I have no doubt that this is in the future for Maria. In regards to what she would like to be when she grows up, she responded quickly. I would like to be a school teacher like Mrs. Barbosa. Please help me welcome Maria Abas to lead our pledge of allegiance this evening. You ready? Place the flag over your heart. Okay. Ready? Yeah. Okay. Ready? Go ahead. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with

007liberty and justice for all. >> Beautiful job. Nice job. She's Before [Applause] we move on to the introduction of our Soore award winners, I just wanted to mention as a housekeeping item, just a reminder, I think I mentioned this uh when uh we were here for my very first meeting as our chair last year. I just want to mention that it would be good if we don't have our cell phones. We're not using our cell phones >> during the meeting. I just wanted to reiterate that as a housekeeping item. I think that's very important. >> Uh now, at this point, I'll introduce or invite the superintendent introduce our Soore Award students. >> Yes. So, I'd like to call first uh Joseph Harb, the science department chairperson, and Anoir as our sore award winner for this

008school year. [Applause] >> Thank you. >> Good evening, everyone. It's nice to see everyone here tonight. The science department proudly announces Anoir Mambdu as this year's science sore award winner. The recipient of the prestigious RPI medal as a junior, Anoir is currently ranked first in the senior class and has excelled in honors and advanced placement science courses for four years at Mthuan High School. Anoir has been recognized nationally by the college board as an advanced placement scholar with distinction. This prestigious honor is awarded to students who receive an average score of at least 3.5 on all AP exams taken and scores of three or higher on five or more AP exams. Anoa has exceeded this criteria. In fact, in my 30 years of teaching science from athan, I've never seen a student that has achieved

009all fives. That's the highest score possible on so many AP exams. He's earned the highest score of five starting his sophomore year on AP biology, pre-calc, and history. as a sophomore uh in calculus, BC chemistry and environmental science, English language and government and politics as a junior. He is currently enrolled this year, his senior year, in five additional AP classes, including physics, economics, psychology, English literature, and statistics. A true leader in our school community, Anoir is the captain of both the varsity cross country and track teams. president of the science national honor society and green team, vice president of the national honor society and winner of the outstanding chemistry project at the Mthuan High School science fair last year. An was selected this past summer to participate in the highly selective broad summer scholars program

010of MIT and Harvard. While paired with two mentors, a research scientist and a software engineer, Anoir worked 40 hours each week for six weeks to complete a project in genomics and biio medicine. As part of the developmental genotype tissue expression group, Anoir worked on extracting single cell RNA sequencing data from human lung and prostate tissue st samples, then analyze that data using computational tools like Python, R, and Scampy. Through this experience, Anoir gained valuable exposure to various STEM career pathway possibilities and cuttingedge biomedical science projects, all while collaborating with a diverse group of scientists and students with a strong interest in studying biochemistry as part of a premed course of study. His ultimate goal is to become a physician. There's no doubt in my mind he's going to achieve that goal. And I told him

011when I met with him, don't forget us when he becomes famous. Anois's top college choices include Harvard, Tus, Yale, Dartmouth, RPI, and Boston University. Congratulations, Ana. >> Thank you so much to the science department, um, Mr. Harb and the sore committee for honoring me with this award. I would like to give special thanks to my teachers. I see a couple of them here supporting me today. And especially my science teachers for really inspiring me to pursue science and really teaching me that science is never solitary and important values that I hold today like collaboration and being creative and just showcasing problem solving skills. I would also like to thank my friends and family who have just always supported me along the way. U my family's here with me today. I have a pretty large family

012and my coach as well who has taught me discipline and hard work. And thank you [Applause] One more. Keep going. All right. So, we have one more sore award tonight. I'd like to call up Christine Dumont, our uh English department chairperson, and our second Soore award winner, Alvin [Applause] Good evening. The English department is so honored to present Alvin Wyn with this year's English department sore award. [Applause] Alvin is an outstanding and spirited student who has excelled academically in his English courses at Mthuan High School. Currently ranked number two in the class of 2026, he has an impressive 4.711 GPA and is a College Board AP Scholar with distinction, having earned passing scores on the AP English Language and Composition Exam, the AP Biology exam, the AP US History exam, the AP pre-calculus exam, the

013AP Calculus BC exam, the AP environmental exam, the AP government exam, and the AP computer science A exam. This year, Alvin is enrolled in AP English literature and composition, and his schedule also includes rigorous courses such as AP Physics, AP Economics, AP Psychology, and AP Statistics, uh, a light load for his senior year. Alvin says he loves every single English teacher at MHS, and the feeling from the English department is mutual. Alvin's English teachers praise his curiosity, motivation, and drive to always improve. Miss Ducet considers Alvin a true intellect and notes his willingness to accept feedback conference to digest it and apply it to refine his writing. This fall, Alvin can often be seen after school in Miss Brooks's classroom, meeting to continuously enhance his college essay as he works on his applications. Miss Lenari,

014Alvin's counselor, remarks that as a threeseason distance runner, he understands the value of toughness and persistence. Running is not for the faint of heart, and he applies his perspective in every aspect of his life. The grind for him is certainly second nature. When he sets his mind to something, he puts in the hours to perfect it. He is driven to be exceptional, and he is constantly hungry for improvement. Alvin's strengths extend beyond the classroom as he is the vice president of the class of 2026, a threeseason track athlete and a captain of the cross country team. He is also president of DECA, placing in states with a solo project about purified water bottles last year. Alvin has already been recognized for his academic achievements as a member of both the National Honor Society and the

015Science National Honor Society and was a recipient of the JS Limb Junior Book Award for science. He also embraced a unique opportunity to intern with the Mthuan Public Schools IT department this past summer, helping with the lower school Chromebooks. Somehow, in addition to his academic and extracurricular pursuits, Alvin finds time to work a part-time job at Gongcha at the Loop. Alvin has aspirations of a career in quantitative finance and plans to combine his talents with both computers and business to major in computer science and minor in finance. His well-developed study habits are sure to carry him far. As Alvin mentioned, he often meets with his friend Anoir at Neans Memorial Library to engage in schoolwork and college tasks. His top school is currently Georgia Tech, but Alvin has Ivy Dreams and is not limiting himself

016when it comes to college applications. Congratulations, Alvin. Uh, thank you so much for this award. It really means a lot to me. But I just want to give a special shout out to my friends, my family, my teachers, and my coaches back there who have all had profound effects on my life. Even though my life is challenging, it's often times very stressful. I have a very good crew around me that constantly constantly keep me optimistic and always on top of my feet at all time. Thank you guys. Thank you all so much. you want. This is your picture. At this point, I will invite our student representative to share some updates with us. >> I believe we have student council today with us. All right, you go. >> You've got a pretty bellowing voice. I

017think you can do it. >> The Miran High marching The Miran High marching band competed in in North Andover Saturday 11 Saturday, October 11th. Their performance was at 7 p.m. The directors, Mr. McGonagal and Mr. Poster, have said that it's been a while since the show has been this amazing and perfect, and they were amazed on how we collectively sounded like as a band. Students were looking forward to performing. Some were some were their first time performing, which they killed it. marching band and color guard worked so hard and got a score of 856 points >> points. you keep going >> and also if you >> on October fourth we celebrated our winners from what m from the what makes you in your home essay contest. This essay was in this essay was entitled what

018makes me feel in my home as well as local businesses as well as the local businesses of our town. The winners from our ninth grade were Mackenzie Ferrero from Mrs. Molings where she got first place, Nazisa Diaz from Mrs. Lo's class who got second place and lastly Vamp Tedby from Miss Mr. >> Basher's class where she got third place. >> Are you in that? >> Do you want to tell the school committee actually who you are cuz you're >> My name is Niza Diaz. >> Who got second place in the podcast? I want to make sure. You all set? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Good job. You did great. >> Good evening. My name is Joey Safi. I'm a senior at Methin High School. And on Friday night of September 26th, Mthan High School held its

019annual homecoming dance. Members of the student council arrived an hour early to put up decorations to set up for the exciting night that cost only $20 to get a ticket to. The event started at 6:30 p.m. and lasted two and a half hours and students were provided with balls of water as well as baggage of chips. Students had a blast singing and dancing to the music that was played by the DJ. Also on September 26th, the morning 2025, the class of 2026 kicked off the school year with their first senior event, Senior Sunrise. In this event, over 230 students gathered together in Nicholson Stadium in the bleachers to enjoy a beautiful sunrise while listening to music and the comfort of one another. Thanks to the orchestration from the senior class officers, the event was sponsored

020by Heavenly Donuts, successfully providing seniors with a plentiful amount of food. Seniors had the opportunity to bring their own drinks to accommodate for the food choice. Many students reported that the sunrise was unique and quite pleasant considering that it had rained the day prior. The event was overall success, creating some final lasting memories for everyone involved. Also on September 26th, Mthuan High School welcomed freshman students to explore all their club options. The goal was more the more students that signed up, the higher attendance would be. In conclusion, the club fair was a success with a multitude of students joining various clubs. The student council itself had 31 people sign up. Thank you. [Applause] >> Are there any other updates? No. >> All right. >> At this point, we'll move on to public participation. Um, what

021I'll do is I will go right down the list and, uh, we'll invite each speaker to come forward and then we have some written public participation as well. Um, in order to make sure that everybody is fully heard, there will be no specified time limit. Uh however, I ask that you know we be considerate about uh keeping things moving. We'll begin with Matt McKon. Good evening. Uh I came to speak today because of the issue about a novel the um the uh history of a part-time Indian diary of a part-time Indian. It's a good book. I don't think it should be banned. And beyond that, I can understand that if individual parents or students might feel uncomfortable about some scenes or some passages or some words that they encounter in this or another book of

022literature. I can understand that life is full of unpleasant things and so maybe this would be a good idea to start practicing that right now. But let's say you have a strong objection. There's an alternative that exists. you can get an alternative book. Uh you can get full credit and you don't have to read the offending text if you don't want to. But this seems to go beyond that. Seems you have a few people who want to ban the book altogether from the high school curriculum. Remove it alto together. And I don't think it's such a great idea to have a couple of parents or a few parents, very sincere people I'm sure, to have veto power over the reading of an entire high school. Once you go down that slope, well, what can you

023not be in? Greek mythology, there's a lot of shenanigans in there you don't want your kids to do. The Bible's full of all kinds of episodes that, well, you wouldn't want to see in the schoolyard. Uh, Shakespeare with all the witchcraft and the murder and the crossdressing. Well, that seems like we probably should throw that out, too. Got two men sleeping in the same bed and Moy Dick. Scarlet letter. Well, that A stands for adultery. Once you get started on banning things, well, you just never stop because somebody always objects to something about something. The system in place where there's an alternative for people who have a sincere objection to find an alternative text, that seems like a good choice. But to give veto power over a small group with a list of things they

024want to see banned, I don't think that's such a good idea. In fact, I think it's a terrible idea. Thank you. [Applause] >> Next, we'll hear from Heather Plunkett. on. We can't hear anything. It's when yall are speaking. We can't hear you. You can only hear Brandy. Her mic works. I don't even need a mic. Really? Is this thing on? Okay. >> Okay. Uh good evening. Uh my name is Heather Plunkett. I'm a Methuan resident and the mother of a recent Methuan High graduate and a current senior. Um I'm here tonight to speak on two of the agenda items put forth by committee member Kristen Maxwell. Uh the first being the Mthuan High School novel, The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian and Transgender Students and Bathrooms. We'll start with the novel. First things

025first, I have read the novel. I read it last night, as a matter of fact, uh to make sure I was fully prepared for this discussion. What compelled me to read it? Knowing it would be discussed at tonight's meeting and seeing two pages out of the 230 pages of the book posted on Facebook without any context. For those who haven't read it, let me indulge you in a quick summary. And by quick, I mean it's probably going to be a few minutes. The story is written from the perspective of a 14-year-old boy who was born and raised on the Spokane Indian Reservation near Wellpinnet, Washington. He was born with hydrophilis, which required surgery at 6 months old. His parents were told that he would not likely survive the surgery, but if he did, the odds

026of him having severe cognitive disabilities were very high. Well, guess what? He survived. He beat the odds. However, he wasn't completely unscathed. The hydrophilis left him with a small body stature and an enlarged cranium which made him the target of bullies. His nickname was the globe. He also had a stutter and a lisp which gave his bullies further ammo. His life was not easy. He describes life on the reservation as a depressing as depressing and hopeless. He was born into poverty following multiple generations of poverty and he never saw a way out of it. the idea of a life outside of the reservation never occurred to him until an encounter with a teacher that changed his course. And how fitting is that because we had students tonight speak on how these teachers have affected and

027changed their lives in positive ways. So, I think that's a nice segue into this this little book that we have. Um, he encouraged this student to move to a different school where he would be given more academic and athletic opportunities. The book goes on to talk about what it was like for him to be the only non-white kid in a small all-white school. Initially, he was bullied, but after punching the bully in the nose and standing up for himself, he was left alone. As time went on, he fostered friendships with kids that he never expected to know, seeing them planning a future through college or the military, something he never considered before. And for the first time, he felt hope for a different future for himself. He talks about how he was somewhat shunned by

028the people on the reservation for their perceived notion that he had turned his back on them and on his heritage, that he thought he was better than everyone else. It made him question himself. Did he deserve to have a different future when so many others didn't have the same opportunity? He also speaks of the alcoholism that is so prevalent on the reservation and how many lives it destroyed. In his short 14 years, he attended 42 funerals, which was normal to him. When he learned his new peers had only attended one to two funerals in the same amount of time, he was shocked. They didn't face the same adversities he viewed as normal. And seeing the difference increased his hope for a better future, a different future, a break from the cycle, if you will. Overall,

029this book illustrates how different your future outcome can be from what you expected. Being that it's written from the perspective of the teenager, it's more than appropriate for high school students to read. Now, now when looking at the pages posted on Facebook and putting them in context, you can clearly see there's nothing inappropriate about this book. You may be asking, "What was written on those two pages to cause enough concern for this book to be put on the agenda?" Well, here it is. He talks about thanking God for having a posable thumb so he can masturbate. That was it. That's it. Mind you, it didn't go into any detail on how he was doing this act or what he was watching while doing it, etc. It was just a silly off-hand comment made by a

030teenage boy written as a thought in a diary. And let's be honest, shall we? Anyone who has been around a teenage boy or has been a teenage boy, you guys know this comment is completely innocent by today's standards of instant access to anything you can Google. This book contained no violence besides fist fighting, no sex. There was nothing in it that could be seen as grossly inappropriate. It was simply a story about a young teen's experience of life on an Indian reservation and attending the local high school in town. That's it. And anyone who says otherwise hasn't read the book and is completely talking out of their rear end. Next topic, transgender bathrooms discussion. In today's world, our current political climate is rife with hot button topics of which this is one. As we all

031know, this issue was already settled by the Massachusetts general laws. But regardless of that, it's been brought up again for discussion. To that, I say this. The residents of Methuan should have actual statistics of bathroom incidents involving a transgendered student against non-transgendered students or vice versa. Otherwise, to bring this up again is nothing more than a dog whistle to people who disagree with anything relating to the LGBTQ plus community and looking to be outraged and argumentative. I think people forget that when you're speaking of a trans kid, you're speaking about an actual person, a fellow human being sharing space with your child on a daily basis. Ask yourself this, would I want someone to treat my child as an other? I don't know of any parents who would. And as I see it, everyone everyone

032wants their own child treated with dignity, respect, and understanding. However, if you're teaching your child to see an LGBTQ student as a less than or a predator, you're not giving that same expectation of treatment to someone else's child. Instead, you're teaching your child to view their fellow peer as someone to fear and recoil from. Is that the message you want to send? On our local social media pages, we've seen parents and students in the community being called perverts or groomers when speaking out in support of the LGBTQ students. Seriously. What year are we in? Are we in 1625 or 2025? I understand people love to troll on Facebook to get clicks and they're obviously pathetic and desperate for attention. But unfortunately, this nasty rhetoric can cloud how these families and students are viewed, which makes

033them fearful to speak out. Is that what we want as a community? I'm sorry, but the days of staying in the closet are over, as they should be. And again, we aren't living in 1625, no matter how much we enjoy visiting Salem in October. Much like the book I discussed earlier, we should all strive to see the world through multiple perspectives. I would strongly encourage the school committee members to engage with the students who identify as trans and speak with their families to better understand their experience and make it part of the discussion. I have yet to see that happen whenever this issue is brought up. And what a refreshing change of pace it would be to have everyone's perspective given equal attention. And with that, I'd like to end my comments with a quote

034from the book. The world, even the smallest parts of it, are filled with things you don't know. Thank you. [Applause] Next, we'll hear from Maria Figueroa. Hi, good evening everyone. I'm Maria Figueroa. I live at 10 Hughes Road in Mthuan. Transparency purposes, I am a candidate running for school committee, but tonight I'm here as a grandmother. So, my hat as candidate is off. Um, I wanted to just acknowledge a comment that Mr. Shabilia made about um the assumption of why we have such a turnout of audience. I think it's pretty orchestrated and pretty strategic why we have the audience we have here. The misinformation that's been going around because I'm looking at the agenda and it doesn't say anything about banning a book. It says a book. It doesn't say anything about not safety or

035about our children or about not not accepting. It talks about a bathroom, transgender bathroom. We need to be able to have a safe place to have these conversations. It is exhausting to constantly see over and over how things are taken out of context, running with false narratives to get such negative reaction from the public and why. And I say this because conversations are needed. As a grandmother, as a caretaker, I want to be well informed. And if that means a conversation that may be uncomfortable or difficult, I'm sorry. Let's have it. Let's have the conversation because I don't know everything. Just today, I found out that my grandson had a suicide prevention at the tennis school. My grandson who developed mentally, yes, he is in seventh grade, but socially, emotionally, is he ready for that

036conversation? And why weren't we privy to that? So that I could be prepared at home to process that with him because right now he's shut down. He doesn't want to talk about it. I thank you, Kristen. Hold your head high because this nonsense of shaming and blaming. Shame on them. People, pick up a mirror and look at yourself. Look at what you're doing. Look at the divide that you are creating. I'm going to sit there for the rest of the night and I'm going to look at the body language because it's not so much what you say, it's how you react when people speak and how you feed off of that negativity. This audience is here with intention and you knew it. And shame on anybody who thinks that they're above any parent or anyone

037who is here to voice a concern about content that being displayed in the school or is being shared or is not being shared because I didn't know this. I don't know everything. I did not even know that this conversation was happening in the schools with my grandson. I want to be informed and if that means difficult conversations, please let's have them. Please let's be respectful. Please, let's not post things online like was said for likes or or for bullying or for whatever you want to call it. We can and need to do better, but we have to have these conversations in order to be doing that. And if we have open-ended agendas and run with false narratives to create negativity, what are we doing as adults, as a professionals, as community members? What are we

038really doing? Kiddo, hold your head up high. I thank you. Keep asking the questions because I assure you, if I'm ever elected, I will be asking twice as many questions because these conversations need to be had. They just need to be had. Thank you, Maggie Leb. Good evening and thank you to the members of the school committee for allowing me to speak. This should be a very brief discussion because Massachusetts state laws are very clear. No student shall be discriminated against on the basis of gender identity. The Department of Education in the Massachusetts Acts of 2011 stated st some students may feel uncomfortable with a transgender student using the same sex segregated restroom, locker room, or changing facility. This discomfort is not a reason to deny access to the transgender student. School administrators and counseling

039staff should work with students to address discomfort and to foster understanding of gender identity to create a school culture that respects and values all students. To briefly talk about myself, I was born and raised here in Methuan. I graduated from Methuan High School and I have three wonderful children who were all born here and have gone through Mthuan public schools. My youngest is now a senior at Methuan High School, and my parenting style has been very laid-back. But one aspect that has always been a priority in our house is kindness. Kindness isn't always easy, especially when your sister touches your things or when we're discussing a topic that makes us uncomfortable. But that has been the lens through which we look at almost all things in our home. and it has never failed me and

040it has never failed my family. All students deserve kindness. I'd like to share a few statistics I got from the Trevor Project website that I think you'll find interesting. LGBTQ plus young people are not inherently prone to higher suicide risk because of their sexual orientation or gender identity. rather they are placed at higher risk because of how they are mistreated and stigmatized in society. 47% of transgender and non-binary youth seriously considered suicide in the past year. One young person considering suicide is too many. My fear is that a policy that limits a student's bathroom usage will only contribute to the high risk of suicide in LGBTQ plus people. School should be a place of safety and kindness for all of our students. They will face challenges in the real world and for the rest of

041their lives. Violating state law by not allowing trans students to use the bathroom because of their gender identity is both an unkind and stigmatizing course of action. It makes young people feel more ostracized in an already polarizing society. If we look at this through a lens of kindness, it should become a non-issue because forcing a child into a bathroom that does not align with their identity, their gender identity wouldn't be a very kind thing to do, would it? Thank you, [Applause] Kristen Deloreia. Good evening. My name is Kristen Del Gloria and this is my ninth year teaching sophomore English at Mthuan High School. I also for all nine years have been the adviser of the student book club, Books and Bagels. I'm here supported by two of my fellow sophomore English teachers, Britney Caprio and

042Amanda Azis. I'm here to discuss a book on the 10th grade curriculum that has a bit been a bit controversial recently. For those who don't know, I wrote this before. Other people had spoken about it. Sherman Alexis, The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian, is a semi-autobiographical book about a young teen growing up on a Native American reservation. The protagonist, Junior, has great ambitions to be an artist, but he finds that everyone living on the reservation has given up hope. Junior fears that the culture of defeat is contagious, so he makes the decision to attend a school off the reservation, a school where he is the only student of color. While the book has been under recent criticism, I wanted to explain through my nine years experience teaching it the relevance of the text.

043As a title one school, I think it is important to mention that Junior presents a character who does not let his financial upbringing deter him from striving for a bright future. In a culture where students may be hesitant to discuss their family's financial struggles, this book provides a safe space to discuss the topic via Junior's character. This character refuses to give up hope and strives for more despite challenging circumstances. He knows he has worth and serves as a reminder for students of their own value. Secondly, Junior faces challenges with his identity. Being the only student of color in his school, Junior struggles with knowing who he is. Readers are taken through a journey where he is discriminated against and eventually finds acceptance. Through this text, students are able to broach the topic in a way

044that feels safe to them. In addition, our grade 10 classes grapple with concepts regarding identity and self-esteem facilitated through this text. They are able to discuss the idea of what makes a person unique and part of a group simultaneously. the dichotomy of being themselves uniquely while also fitting into a group as a whole. Additional merits of the book include the representation of a Native American main character written by a Native American author, both subgroups of which are wholly under reppresented in our society. The discussions of grief, which Junior struggles with throughout the second half of the book after the unexpected death of his grandmother, the consistent discussions of the dangers of substance abuse. The following of a lifelong friendship through the tribulations of growing up, the descriptions of the highs and lows of first love,

045and most importantly in my eyes, the development of the theme of hope for one's future, the desire to leave the world a better place than we found it. While this book has been controversial in our community recently, I urge members of the community to see the value of the book as a whole. While two pages of the book may be a little ribled, we must remember that the book is written from the perspective of a 14-year-old boy. A time in many of your lives that you must remember not being your most eloquent. We must also remember that a book as a whole is more than the sum of its parts. I caution you not to go down the slippery slope of labeling a book as dangerous based on only a few pages. I urge you

046to take the book into consideration as a whole and see the value it presents to our students. Please trust those who have put this book on the curriculum. Trust the literary world who find value in this book. And please trust the teachers who have spent countless portions of their lives to make a positive impact on your students. We have their best interest at heart. Thank you. [Applause] Jay Jalbert. Good evening, Dr. Kuang and school committee members. I'm Jay Jalbert, a Mthuan resident and a parent of three Mthuan public school students. I appreciate you all sitting here. I do hope you are actively listening to each concerned voice and not just the ones you agree with. I hope you are interested in learning all perspectives rather than jumping to conclusion from one person's point of view,

047be it mine or any other. Tonight we have a discussion it Tonight we have discussion items of banning a book for high school students. We also have an item regarding bathroom use. We are here to talk about these items. Member Maxwell feels targeted because she has proposed them. She is not being targeted. I saw the posted agenda Thursday night. I immediately read an absolutely true diary of a part-time Indian. Shout out to the Neans Library in the Libby app. To be clear, I read this book and the main thought in mind is whe with the main thought in mind whether or not it should be banned or limited in any way for adolescent readers. I would assume each of you has read this book as research on agenda topics is what we are paying you

048to do. If you haven't, I'll give you a quick quick synopsis. It's about a young poor Native American Indian who is looking to better his life by going to a white school off of his reservation. A person of color trying to better his lot in life. If that's not relatable to people in this community, I don't know what is. From what I understand, this book was first brought to the committee on Monday's October 6th. It was placed on the agenda October 9th. Early Friday morning, I reached out to member Maxwell on why she had added it. She had not read not yet read the book at that point. She told me, quote, "Parents brought concerns to the committee. I am discussing it because it's something not everyone is comfortable with." End quote. As an aside,

049it's comforting to know that complaints based on comfort level will make it to the agenda. I do imagine meetings will be much longer moving forward. The concerns member Maxwell repeated to me were regarding, and I'm paraphrasing, excessive language, lots of references to masturbation, sexual thoughts, talks about sexual desires and wet dreams, graphic sex, drugs, fighting, racial slurs, and religion. I promptly told her that while there was reference to masturbation, it was twice, not lots, and in a humorous way, that of an adolescent male doing what is human nature, especially for teenagers. The story has minimal swearing and one instance of racial of a racial slur. Regarding the part with the racial slur, our main character, Junior, is being bullied. He hits his bully in the face. The bully immediately backs down. The racial slur is

050not the racial slur referenced is not celebrated. It's dealt with swiftly and harshly. Mthuan wouldn't even consider this a fight. It's physical contact, not reciprocated. In this ca, this is the case for nearly all fights in the book. Is Methuan redefining fights. The rest of what was listed as concerns are not in the book. Member Maxwell regiled me with a story about a teacher who was forced to read from this book out loud to their class, but was too embarrassed. So, she got a neighboring teacher. They got a neighboring teacher. I did not get the sex of the teacher to read it for them. I researched this claim by reaching out to the head of the department, English department here at the high school, asking if teachers must read specific books or passages out loud

051to their classes. I was told, and I quote, "Teachers are not required to read aloud specific sections of texts." End quote. Regarding understanding a topic in its entirety rather than taking very sorry reading and understanding a topic in its entirety rather than taking pieces out of context should be a given before proposing an agenda item. That should be the first step in any discussion. As a member of a committee, it is quite literally your job to research your topics for the agenda. Do not take steps do not take that step before adding the agenda item that is hurtful to your community as at large as demonstrated here. I did request through the Freedom of Information Act the emails where the agenda items were referenced from that. I read a definite misunderstanding in general from Mayor

052Max member Maxwell asking about a banned book in the library seemingly without realizing that last week was banned books book weeks and the list was merely merely a list of books that have banned nationwide or anywhere in the past. These books are not banned in Methuan. It is quite literally a national celebration of education like teacher education teacher appreciation week. If you have read this book, you understand how it resonates with our community. As member Wlette has said in a joint school committee city council meeting, we are a majority minority community. While he said it in a negative way, doesn't a book that represents the very population recognized as predominant in the city deserve a place in the curriculum, especially when the book is about the minority population winning, getting a better life due to

053the work and struggles put in as a child and beyond. that this board would discuss removing a book that specifically speaks to a minority group, a minority and disabled student approving their life is disgraceful. That this group would celebrate their promotion of literacy while also attempting to cut off reading in the very same vein is a headscratcher. To quote Margaret Atwood, "Ignorance is not the same at ignoring is not the same as ignorance. You have to work at it." Now, I would like to address the residents of Methuan who have tuned in for this meeting sitting in front of me or behind me in person or through a screen. On the agenda is a discussion about transgender bathroom use. It could have been removed when accepting the agenda. There is currently a Massachusetts law in

054place regarding transgender bathroom use. Each school has genderneutral bathrooms which are accessible to any student that feels uncomfortable. This committee is aware of these things. School staff is aware of these things. If there are students or families that are not aware, it could be explained to all in a faster and less obtrusive way. I emailed the committee this weekend about sexual harassment and assaults that happened within male bathrooms at the schools. Oddly, I have heard nothing from either member Wlette or member Maxwell, both of whom were included on the adding of transgender bathroom usage to tonight's agenda. I am sure the two of you in particularly will be fighting full boore for the actual documented instances of trouble now that you know about it since simple feelings of discomfort of biologic ma biological male and

055female students is clearly a priority. I remind you these were biological males being harassed and sexualized by other biological males. I realize you do not need to do research in order to discuss sensitive topics. I would urge you all to do so in this case and in the future. I further researched the topic of fear of being uncomfortable in the bathrooms by asking many students their feelings on the bathrooms throughout Mthuan public school buildings. I am not trying to discredit what me member Maxwell said a parent said that several high school girls said. My research was simple asking students I know or children of parents I know. The largest most consistent complaint I heard were facilities related. One high school student said they won't use the bathroom because vaping is out of control. This is

056an actual legal issue. Will this be added to the next agenda? When you push an issue because when you push an issue because allowing any child or person to use a general neutral bathrooms does not address the situation for students who are not genderneutral. Do you not realize that this is the solution for any person who is uncomfortable? Do you think there is something different in genderneutral bathrooms? Do you know that any single stall restroom is genderneutral? Do you have gender specific bathrooms in your own homes? Why do you feel it is okay to make transgender students uncomfortable when they do not want to use genderneutral bathrooms, but not, in your own words, biological males or females? Mthun is in compliance with current MGL on transgender bathroom usage. discussions alone could very well open the

057city up to a host of lawsuits costing who knows how much money for lawyer fees alone prior to any settlements. Which committee members are willing to gamble our already crisis level budget to push their own agenda rather than using that money in our schools on our staff? To the committee members here tonight, I implore you to act with accountability to all who are touched by the public schools. Do not cave to bullies and bigots. They may be loud, but they are few. Lead with love, kindness, respect, and caring. Ask the questions and get the answers from all sides. This is what we ask of you tonight and always. In our exchange, member Maxwell accused me of being harsh. I take full ownership. I was harsh. I am being harsh. She said I was looking for

058an argument that I disagree with. I'm not looking for an argument. I am looking to learn. I am looking to educate. I am deeply hurt by the racism that is so apparent in this city and beyond. by the bigotry, the pure unadulterated hate we're seeing. I am lucky that I am not a natural target. I will forever use my voice for those who are. I urge you to do the same. Stand up to the bullies. Educate those who are uneducated. Teach and demonstrate understanding even if you're not in the same situation. Do not add to the hate, the racism, the intolerance, or the bigotry. As Junior says in an absolutely true diary of a part-time Indian, I used to think the world was broken down by tribes, by black and white, by Indian and white.

059But I know that isn't true. The world is broken down into two tribes. The people who are and the people who are not. In closing, I ask each of you to be the people who are not. Thank you, Mayor. Mayor, >> mayor, can I offer a point of clarification? >> No, we can't engage in back and forth during >> back and forth. >> We'll have discussion later. Mayor Daglio. >> Good evening. Uh, my name is Dennis Daglio. I live at 8 Thomas Road here in Methuan. And as DJ just mentioned, I am the former mayor here in Mthuan and had the honor of being a chairperson of the school committee. and I took that privilege very very uh uh sincerely. Uh I know you have a busy agenda. You have a lot of people to

060hear from. So I'll be very very brief. But when I heard tonight that you were considering banning a book, I had to come down to oppose it. Uh in all the years I've been in government here in Methuan and all the entire time I've lived here in Methu, we've never banned any books. And I don't think we should start now. Why don't we just use common sense? If there are some parents who have a concern with some of the the book, then perhaps they can get dispensation from the school committee not to have to read the book. But don't ban the book for everyone just because a couple of people have a concern. Why don't we bring common sense back to the government which has been lacking for such a long time. Please take my

061comments and sincere advice that you could take or not, but please consider my comments. Thank you. Kelsey Shabilia. Good evening. My name is Kelsey Shabilia. I'm a Methuan resident and a mother to two MPS students. And also for full disclosure, I am the wife of committee member Dan Shabilia and I am on the ballot for the Neans um library board. However, I'm here as a mom and as a human being. Earlier this year, a member of this committee identified white flight as the greatest problem facing Mthuan today and later publicly advocated to invite ICE into our schools. In September, this committee was faced with a vote to allow parents to opt their child out of being exposed to any LGBTQIA material at all. The Supreme Court is currently allowing racial profiling for legalized kidnappings. In

062early October, a Methuan city council member asked to give a moment of silence for a person who spent his entire life attacking marginalized communities and trying to make our country more patriarchal, straighter, whiter, and religiously homogeneous. Yesterday was Indigenous People's Day, or at least it should have been until the president of the United States declared that it is again Christopher Columbus Day. In the last 10 months alone, our federal government has attacked transgender people relentlessly by denying their existence, by ignoring science and spreading lies, by stating they cannot serve in our military even after decades of service, restricting access to health care, participation in sports, and more. On the way here, I actually learned that Fenway Health in Boston, who is the largest supporter of transgender folks in this area, can no longer provide care

063for kids under 19. I cried in my car. BIPAC and LGBTQIA people are under literal attack every single day at increasing rates. I say all of this because nothing happens in a vacuum. This is the world in which member Kristen Max Kristen Maxwell chose to add these agenda items. We or I didn't politicize this. It is political. The first item is MHS novel the absolutely true diary of a part-time Indian discussion. The second is transgender students and bathrooms discussion. Elected public officials have a responsibility to act in the best interests of their entire community. When a constituent comes to you with questions, it is your job to educate them on the policies and procedures related to their questions. And since I wrote this, I have also learned that the policies and procedures suggested by speakers

064before me exist. They're already in place. It is your job to ask the right questions to find the relevant information when you don't have it, which we all do. Nobody knows everything, including questions about determining curriculum or explaining state laws. So, here's what I'd like to know. I realize we can't go back and forth, but Kristen had declined a conversation, so I'll share my questions here. Did you reach out to any school officials to ask about the curriculum selection process? Did you ask to learn about why this book is a part of the curriculum or how it's taught? If you did these things, did you then share this information with the concerned constituent or constituents who came to you? Were there any attempts made by you to direct the concerned constituent to the source of

065the concerns? If you did not, why? I know we're all here to have the tough conversations, right? That's what we're advocating for. Did that person want the book removed from the curriculum? Did you give them guidance on how they can advocate for that themselves? Because I would be in full support of that or request an alternative assignment if possible. Again, which I have learned is completely possible. So really, it probably should have been an email of no problem, you can opt out of that. I'm struggling to come up with an innocent reason to place one specific book on the agenda when many of you have not read it and you have not taught it. It would make sense to put an agenda item to discuss the processes or the procedures for challenging a book or

066for censorship or for banning. But it's illogical and counterproductive to discuss one particular book, especially since you declined to seek more information from educators, teachers, or students about the book. This is the crux of the concern. I do want to say thank you as I had never heard of this book before. Now I read it. Highly recommend it to both teenagers and adults and I look forward to reading more from Sherman Alexi. It has been a bit since I read a book so incredibly thoughtprovoking and engaging. I laughed. I cried. I learned things I didn't even realize I did not know. It has sparked many more questions I have about the history of reservations of ind of indigenous people in the United States. And I'm eager to learn more. I am grateful that this book

067is part of the Methooan school's curriculum. It undoubtedly provides students an opportunity to safely discuss sensitive topics like addiction or trauma. I think just like everyone else here, it is beyond important to give kids a safe and guided space to talk about these things like friendship and family and finding yourself with their peers and adults, in a way that's relatable to them, which this book absolutely is. How can we expect them to grow up and be effective members of society or even elected officials here in our town if we don't teach them how to have difficult conversations, especially with people who disagree with you with sharp critical thinking skills, respect, and integrity. I have a saying in my house, being curious makes you smarter and kinder. Teach our children to turn discomfort into curiosity. I

068understand that there is one small excerpt that humorously mentions masturbation. This is a book for teenagers from the teen perspective. The kids reading this are engaged in health class and also have the internet in their pockets at all times. There absolutely should be a proper channel for reviewing concerning curriculum and possible adjustments. I don't think anybody will dispute that. targeting one singular book that you have no knowledge of is not it. Now, I have to adjust this next part a little bit um because I just learned on the way in here the actual reason for the transgender bathroom item. So, I might stumble through it a little bit. This one was the most concerning to me. It's was written on the agenda as transgender students and bathrooms. As many people said before me, this is

069Massachusetts law. It is not something to be determined by the school committee. I learned that the reason this is on the agenda is because a cisgendered student expressed that they feel discomfort sharing a bathroom with a potentially transgender person. For that, I have two suggestions. One is that you could use a single option stall. They exist. They're there. Or my other suggestion would be to encourage this person to turn their discomfort into curiosity and dig into learning about somebody different than you. This should never have gone on the agenda as a transgender issue. It should have been a cisgender issue or maybe a bathroom accessibility issue. And writing it as a transgender bathroom issue in this climate is cruel. I can guarantee you that every transgender child and family in Methuan feels far more uncomfortable

070and afraid with this targeted agenda item than the person who came to you. You say bullying is important to you, and it is to me, too. Try not to laugh when I say these statistics. According to the Trevor Project, schools that are gender affirming have significantly lower bullying rates than schools who are not gender affirming. Interestingly, for both LGBTQIA kids as well as straight cisgender kids. So, to reiterate, bullying rates are lower for every single child when schools are gender affirming. One can surmise that it's the adults teaching hate. I've already told you all the suicide and suicide attempt rates for queer youth, and I know it was stated again tonight by another uh public participant, but tonight's agenda item suggests that you don't care about that. Member Maxwell, you made a post on your

071official school committee Facebook page yesterday stating that you wanted to have a conversation about these topics. You then blocked me from participating in that conversation. I'm still not sure what it is I said that prompted that and I can't ask you because you don't want to. You stated that you would only discuss the agenda items at this meeting, but this is not a conversation. This is not a back and forth. It's it's not a dialogue. You also remained silent multiple times when a local self-proclaimed podcaster called multiple members of this committee and myself perverts and groomers and worse simply for standing up for kids that you are supposed to be protecting. That makes your stance very clear. And Des as Desmond Tutu said, "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the

072side of the oppressor. Lastly, I want to say that yes, I absolutely invited as many people as I could to reach out and talk about this issue. I asked people to share their thoughts on these agenda items. I didn't tell them what to think. I just told them that it's happening and it shouldn't happen in the dark. And I can promise you, I will encourage loud, large reactions anytime you come for kids or you come for books. If you feel targeted by this tonight, imagine how the transgender kids feel. Thank you, Joanne Harkkins. Hi, good evening school committee members. Um, thank you for allowing me to talk. I um been a Mthun resident for well over 30 years. My kids are both graduated uh both successfully in the one's in college, one's back working in

073the system, which I'm very proud of. Um, so we've always been involved in fine arts programs, band, theater, GSA. My kids are very involved in the LGBTQ community. So, which I can guarantee you get, you know, where I'm going with this. So, what I really want to do is just address anybody who has any issue with a transgender bathroom. So, um, I really I'd like to ask you, what purpose does this serve you personally? How does another person of a public use that using a public restroom something as ordinary as just simply relieving yourselves impact you? Does it impact your family? Does it impact your safety in any meaningful way? When you enter a restaurant, do you stop to wonder who used it before you? No, of course not. And if it's a transgender or

074non-binary, it changed nothing. No one was harmed. No one was threatened. Yet acting as this as though someone's identity is a contingent is to be feared or contained. Let's be clear. No one in the LGBTQ plus community is hiding in bathrooms waiting to creep up on anyone. It's a baseless and dangerous stereotype. What we're doing is exploiting fear and misunderstanding for political gain. Turning real people's lives into talking points. You're making students, parents, and staff male feel unsafe and unwelcome simply because of who they are. That's cruel. Here's what you may not realize. Someone you know and or love is an LGBT uh is a member of the LGBT, excuse me. Um they hear your words. Thank you. And they see your votes. They're learning from you and exactly how much and or how little

075you value their existence. When you use your position to deny any others dignity, you send a message to every young person watching that hate is acceptable and that belonging depends on conformity. As community leaders and parents, your duty is to in not to inflame fear. It is to foster understanding, compassion, and safety for all students. History remembers those who stood up for inclusion. It also remembers those who chose exclusion. The choice you make now will define which side you're on. Thank you, Jennifer Loiselle. Hello all. Um before getting started, it was so nice to um see the kids today come up for their awards. That was really nice. And I just want to um you know, great job to the school. That was just gives you hope for for the future, which is kind of

076why I'm here. Um, so my name is Jennifer Loyel. I am a mom here in Methuan um to two MPS children. Um, and I'd like to thank an active community member who deeply values education and the role our schools play in helping every child feel seen. I wanted to just share a quick personal perspective on some of the conversation that we're having today. I grew up in a really very homogeneous, very white community and it was really hard to be a person of color, not seeing a lot of representation. I in fact actually still remember the first Cabbage Patch doll that came out that was not white. Um, it was so huge for me to see a doll that looked like me, that was brownskinned. Um, and I still kind of remember some of my

077friends making fun of that doll because it did not look like their dolls. It was a huge deal. That kind of representation really, really matters. It tells a child that you exist. You belong. And your story counts, too. No one, let alone a child, should ever be discriminated against. Public schools should be a safe space for all students, teachers, staff, anybody really who steps foot in the building. I know what it feels like to be bullied and discriminated against. Growing up as one of the only people of color in a really small town, it was tough. It wasn't fun. And those are the kinds of wounds that stay with you. You know, the sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. I'm not really sure, you know, we tell our

078children that, but how much truth is really in that, right? because my broken arm will heal. But those really mean, cruel things that you said, the ways that you treated me, those stick with you. And you know what? Once a child is victimized, they're more likely to continue being victimized. I really actually appreciate that we're here tonight having this discussion because honestly that's what books are supposed to do. That's what difficult books are supposed to do. They're supposed to open up the door. They're supposed to spark conversation and critical thinking and hopefully an air of understanding. They challenge us to see beyond our own experiences and to build empathy for others. And boy, empathy is something that we really need today. That's why I get concerned when we start talking about censoring books, banning books,

079especially ones that reflect the lives of LGBTQ youth, um, people of color, people from atypical families. I mean, it wasn't fun growing up as a person of color in a small white wealthy town, and it definitely wasn't fun being like the only kid that came from a foster family, right? So, um, I can imagine that if I had had the chance to read a book, just showing me that I wasn't alone, man, that could have really been life-changing. We don't want to remove a mirror that helps a child understand themselves or a window that helps another child to learn empathy. These aren't explicit adult novels. They're age appropriate stories meant to help students make sense of the world that they're growing up in and the people that they're growing up in this world around. I

080worry that when we start censoring representation, it becomes a really slippery slope. You know, today it's a book about really I mean common sexuality. Tomorrow it might be a book about slavery, right? The next day it might be a book about atypical families. I mean, it might just be something that you don't want to see, right? And it just feels really scary once we kind of start talking about censoring or banning. Um because there's always something to be censored or something to be banned. Being a parent is really really tough these days. Oh, it's actually so tough and we don't really get enough credit um to be parents, right? to be like raising the next generation that will hopefully take care of us. I mean, I want my son or daughter to be up here

081getting one of these awards and hearing all of those nice things. I want everybody's child to have that opportunity. And as tough it as it is, it's our job as parents to guide, right? what our children read to guide those conversations to guide some critical thinking. I might not like it and that's okay. I just won't have my child read it. Right? Let's teach our kids to read critically, to talk about ideas, and to lead with empathy. That's how we build understanding, not by silencing voices, but by hearing them. I'm so grateful for you all listening to mine right now. So, I just ask that as a community, we move with compassion and perspective. Instead of banning voices, let's teach our kids how to read critically, how to talk openly. That's how we build understanding,

082not fear. And I really appreciate y'all for listening to me. Thank you. Christine Mloud. Good evening. I'm Christa Mloud, 111 East Street in Mthuan. I clearly am aware and have become aware over the last few days about this discussion regarding the inclusion of the absolutely true diary part the absolutely true diary of a part-time Indian. My only complaint about the book is it's a really hard title to say. It's by Sherman Alexi and that is included in the Mthuan High School curriculum uh for classroom in the re reading in the classroom. As a librarian, a Mthuan resident, and a former Mthuan public school parent, I believe that we should make sure that our students have books that challenge and interest them and through which they can explore their own lived experiences and develop an understanding

083of other people's lives. The Absolutely True Diary is just such a book. while taking on themes of poverty. And you've heard so much about this book tonight. Um I hope everyone wants to read it. Um because while taking on themes of poverty, feeling different from one's peers, and finding one's place in a complex world, it is also a funny, well-ritten, and engages both girls and boys, even those who may not be avid readers. In a school system where we have many students grappling with complex daily issues, Sherman Alexis's book allows them to connect to a character who is solving his problems and making his way ahead in a positive and mature fashion. I know this book well. And in fact, I included it in one of my book discussion groups several years ago where we

084read a number of titles that were written for contemporary teens. Among the group were many then current and retired Methun school teachers, none of whom expressed any concern about the book being inappropriate for its intended audience. The book is not vulgar in any way, though it does deal with sexuality in a straightforward and honest way in a couple of minor scenes in the book. Today's teens are exposed to much more highly sexualized material everywhere they look outside of school. If our children watch broadcast or streaming content on television, consume modern music, or use their smartphones, I guarantee they are seeing and hearing far more graphic words and images. Sexuality is part of the human experience, and denying teens the ability to read about it in the context of literature and in a setting that is

085safe seems counterintuitive to me. Reading doesn't hurt people. Even books with content that makes you uncomfortable is not going to damage you or ruin you in any way. Our kids are strong and resilient. And reading good books will make them more so. There may be books in our schools and libraries that you do not like. In fact, there are books in our schools and libraries that I do not like. But having a wide selection of materials and varied choice in books makes our kids better readers, stronger students, and more intelligent adults. Removing books from the curriculum is no way to help our kids become better readers. If this is a case in which a few parents do not wish to have their child read the absolutely true diary, they do, as has been pointed out

086tonight, have a choice to select alternate materials. It is too bad that their children will not be able to read the this award-winning selection, but it is not the job of a minor a small minority of parents to keep certain titles away from other people's children. I trust our educators to select books for the children of this community. We hire intelligent, educated, and thoughtful people. And reading books with our children and guiding them to think about literature, history, and society is an important part of their job. It's also the job that parents should do. If a parent is worried about their child reading a book, I suggest they read it too and talk about it with their children. I guarantee that it will enrich your relationship with the child and deepen your understanding of them

087as people. I challenge this committee and this community to read this book and talk about it. Discuss the real issues in the book. what happens to kids raised in poverty and what life is like on an American Indian reservation. How int how can intelligent people and independent young adults find their way in the world and what happens to people who are different from others. We can also discuss what makes some of us uncomfortable about the book and why it won the national book award in 2007. I will be happy to provide multiple copies of this book to anyone who wishes to read it. And join me. I'm going to I'm thinking I'm going to do it on December 2nd. So join me for a discussion of this book. I ask this committee to remember that

088free people read freely. And if we want our next generation to think and act in a free society, we must give them the the education they need to succeed. And that means not shutting out ideas and thoughts, even those which with which we may not be comfortable. I want to say tonight that I'm very proud of Mthuan. This is a discussion. This may not be a back and forth, but I know you're going to probably have that tonight. If you want a discussion, you've got it. And you've heard from a lot of people. And just because they don't agree with one person or another person doesn't make that bad. People can have differing views. But I I must say I hear sometimes and I saw it on Facebook. Sadly, I do watch read Facebook. I'm

089really sorry. But um I'm sorry every day. Um but in fact um uh people say, "Oh, it's not banning books." We're not banning books. If you are taking books out of a school library or a public library or a classroom so that children and people in this community do not have access to that book because many of these kids wouldn't have access to this book if it weren't if it weren't in their classroom. And that is banning a book. It is censorship. I'm sorry. I don't know what else you call that. So, it's really important. But I'm really proud of this community for standing up and having this discussion with this committee. I thank the committee for listening to so many of us who are concerned about what's happening in our schools. Um, and uh,

090and I want to thank all of our educators, especially the superintendent, uh, for making sure that our kids have access to a wide variety of reading materials and to, um, to the the great education that our children get here in MSUN. Thank you very much. Apologies if I mispronounce uh this next name. Next we'll hear from Annie Klahan. Hello, my name is Annie Klahan. I have a 10th grader at the high school. Um, I just want to let you know my purpose is to bring awareness to parents as to what is happening in the classrooms. Um, I do not in no way believe in banning books. We live in a free country. We have freedom of speech and artistic license. What I do know I have a problem with is when pornographic material is read

091out loud to my daughter without her consent or my consent or my husband's consent. So, the absolutely true diary of an um of a part-time Indian. Just want to give a little spiel on the author um Sherman Alexi. I just wanted everyone to know publicly because we haven't mentioned it. Um he's not the greatest role model. He has been um accused by multiple women of sexual misconduct. He apologized publicly for hurting these people through the years. Um his the people in his own Native American community, some have shunned him. The Institute of American Indian Arts actually removed Sherman Alexis's name from their scholarship. My student came to me feeling uncomfortable with the book read aloud in English class. Excuse me. And funny to me, besides the explicit material, what she was even more disturbed with

092um or offended by was the fact that God was brought into this situation. And I didn't know she felt that strongly about her religious beliefs, but she does. And I told her that I will stand up for her beliefs. Forgive me, I'm a little bit nervous. Oh, goodness me. Okay. Anyway, so the my problem is that there was no opt out form given. So we had no idea that this was going to take place. The teacher warned the kids that it was going to be mature content and that they needed act to act maturely about it. But the teacher herself was too uncomfortable to read it out loud. So she had the assistant or assistant teacher or another teacher read it to the children. And I'm really happy for her that she got to decide

093for herself what makes her feel more comfortable. But the children, were they afforded that same accommodation? They weren't. They weren't. I I believe an opt- out form is now like if that's not given, I'm thinking it's a violation. So, I just wanted to thank you for agreeing with that. Um, let's see. There's also no book. The kids don't have a book. They just have a a printed out um form uh the printed out packet that they're reading. And I was wondering why. So, I had looked at some reviews on the book and I'm sure it's probably a great book. I'm not saying that it's not. I just don't want pornographic material read by an adult to my minor child. Um so, they have these printed out packets that they're reading. chapter by chapter. And I

094said, my daughter goes, "Yeah, that's weird. I don't know why we don't have the book, but maybe it's because of the explicit photographs that are throughout the book. I'm not sure if maybe that's why the teacher did that." But I'm also thinking um that that may potentially like printing packet printing a book in handouts. I think that might be a copyright violation, but I don't know for sure. So maybe you can check on that. Um, I'm just going to read the passage that bothered my daughter, if you don't mind. I was 14 and it was my first day of high school. I was happy about that and I was most especially excited about my first geometry class. Yep. I have to admit that isles triangles make me feel hormonal. Most guys, no matter what age,

095get excited about curves and circles, but not me. Don't get me wrong. I like girls and their curves. And I like I really like women in their curvier curves. I spent hours in the bathroom with a magazine that has 1,000 pictures of naked movie stars. Naked women plus right hand equal happy joy joy. Yep, that's right. I admit it that I masturbate. I'm proud of it. I'm good at it. I'm ambidextrous. If there were a professional league, I'd be drafted number one and I'd make a million dollars. And maybe you're thinking, "Well, you really shouldn't be talking about masturbation in public." Well, tough. I'm going to talk about it because everybody does it and everybody likes it. And if God hadn't wanted us to masturbate, then God wouldn't have given us thumbs. So, I thank

096God for my thumbs. But the thing is, no matter how much time my thumbs and I spend with the curves of imaginary women, I am much more in love with the right angles of buildings. I won't go on. That's it. But that's the that's the part my daughter had a problem with and she did not have a warning. We did not have a consent and I think it's creepy and gross and I don't like it. And so I think that you know the principal did admit to me, Principal Caret told me that the teacher did not give an opt out form of some sort within an email text I don't know let something um there was not one given. So that's that's like my major concern. He did, just to be fair, he did say

097that my daughter could come to the library with her computer and can do different lessons that would align with the curriculum and that the librarian is a former AP English teacher, which I'm glad for. So, she may be getting some one-on-one time. So, that may be a good thing for her, but I don't think reading pornographic material adults to minors is appropriate. I mean, I think some of you are too young, but we all read The Diary of Anne Frank when we were in school. I didn't know until I was an adult there was an unabbridged and an a bridged version. So, we got the story without all of that stuff in it. I never knew there was all the other stuff. So, the story was able to be given. You got the point across.

098It was history. It was an amazing book. So, if we're handing out printed packets, can you rip those two pages out? I mean, what's the big deal? Or let parents know ahead of time. Let parents know ahead of time and let us decide because they're our children, not yours. And the issue with the bathroom, I understand that that's a very touchy subject, and I agree. I don't know what to do about it. I want everybody to feel comfortable and have their rights. But I do want to let you know that there are girls who are learning to suppress their voices and their feelings. Not just my child, but multiple children. And that's what we're teaching our girls today. Don't speak up. You're going to hurt someone's feelings. Don't do it. It's not right. It's not

099okay. But if it's their voice and that's how they feel, why is that not okay? Who is sticking up for these young women? I have been told that they can use the genderneutral bathrooms. How many of them are in the school? Do children know their locations? Um, if they do use them and there's more than one person and they have to uh wait, will they be marked tardy for class? When are they unlocked? when are they available? I know the locking of the bathrooms is a huge issue for me. I had an incident when I was in high school that wasn't pleasant. So, I don't like the locking of bathrooms, but I know there's not there's not a lot of good things that go on in the bathrooms either, like the vaping. Um, so I

100would just like clarification on on all of that for the girls and are the girls aware that they can use these other bathrooms if they don't like it? But I just want you to know that there are girls out there that are feeling like they don't have a voice. And I don't think that that's a bad thing. It's just a natural thing that's coming to them that they want to speak out and they can't. Thank you for your time. Nicole Roa. Hi. Um, my name is Nicole Rosha. Um, I'm the mother of five children. I live in Methuan, obviously. Um, that have either been in the Methuan public schools are or are currently in the Methooan public school system. Um, before I say what I wanted, what I wrote, I just want to say that

101honestly, I don't really know any of you. I don't know who you are. I don't know. Shame on me as a mom, but I don't know where you stand politically. I don't know where you stand on issues. I learned about what was going on tonight through Facebook. Um, and I came here because I I wanted to express my feelings as a parent and just as a human being and a citizen. Um, ju just like I did when I heard about what happened with our teachers a couple months back. I showed up at the um city council meeting um to voice my opinion and you know my feelings of us supporting our teachers and their salaries and their jobs um because I felt it was important to me. So that's why I'm here. I don't dislike

102anyone because I really don't know anyone. So, um, in our school systems, we are all taught the same few stories about Native Americans who inhabited this land long before Europeans colonized it. We learned about Sakajia, Squanto, and Pocahontas. We learned how they helped the immigrants to navigate the land and forged truses between the tribes and the Europeans. They were able to serve as mediators between their people and the colonizers because they spoke English. I remember wondering as a child, how could they have known English? But that part of history was never addressed. Spoiler alert. Saka Jia knew English because she was captured and sold to a white man at the age of 12, forced to marry him and carry his child. Squanto was captured and sold around the European slave market for five years. And

103that is how he learned English before he was returned home. I began to learn about the difficulties Native Americans have faced in my English comp one class. My first year of nursing school, we read Sherman Alexis's book, The Lone Ranger in Tonto's Fist Fight in Heaven. He likes long titles. It was a collection of short stories that told the story of two young Native American boys growing up on the reservation. One of the characters talks about the government cheese they received that was often all they had to eat. My professor informed us that the Native Americans have the highest poverty rate of any group in the United States. Something I never knew. And I actually just learned yesterday their medium income of Native Americans in this country is $17,000 a year. Imagine living on that

104in this economy. Many of the short stories describe the alcoholism that afflicted most adults on the reservation and negatively affected the children growing up in that environment. She helped us to try and understand how the centuries of injustices that Native Americans have gone through resulted in a current life of disenfranchisement in our society, government, education, and economic wealth, which contributed to the substance abuse they used to try and cope. If I had never gone to college, I never would have known the truth about the lives of Native Americans. According to the 2020 Census Bureau, 47% of Americans have some type of college degree. This means that less than half the country graduates from college. So, if we want an educated, well-informed society, it needs to happen in the primary education setting. The saying goes, "Those

105who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Throughout the history of the United States and frankly the world, groups looked at as different have been the targets of mistreatment and hate by the dominant group. Native Americans were looked at as savages and treated as savages. Blacks were treated as less than human and enslaved. Once freed, they were segregated from all parts of society for another century. The Jews were hated and nearly exterminated in Europe during World War II. The Japanese were put into internment camps in the United States following Pearl Harbor. Muslims were targeted and attacked following 911. I grew up in the 90s when gay people started coming out and were targeted in violent attacks like the brutal death of Matthew Shepard. Today we are seeing that same prejudice, fear, and hate

106we once saw towards groups deemed different in the past. The only difference is the target is now the transgender community. The thinking is the same though. They are different. We don't understand them. We have to protect ourselves from them. We have to protect our children from them. But what we really need to do is remember the past. Remember that any time a group was feared, marginalized, and treated unfairly, when time passed, we realized we were wrong. We realized it wasn't fair to treat them that way. We realized they were just people trying to live their lives like the rest of us. This is why The Diary of a Part-Time Indian by Sherman Alexi is such an important group book for our teenagers to read. While I know there is some concern about adult content in

107the book regarding substance abuse and sex, the truth is our kids walk around with a computer in their hand all day called their cell phones where they have access to all types of adult content unsupervised. When reading this book in class under the instruction of a qualified teacher, they will learn about the true experience of another group of Americans. In that learning process, they will likely develop some empathy for their struggle. When children develop empathy for others that are not like them, they grow up to be adults with empathy. When enough of us learn to have empathy for others, including those we don't identify with, then maybe finally we will live in a world where we judge people based on their character, not what they look like, not who they worship, not who they love,

108and not what bathroom they decide to use. Thank you. [Applause] So that's the end of the list of people who signed up ahead of time to take part in public participation. Before we uh have a reading of written comments, is there anybody else in the room who did not sign up who wishes to speak? >> I just want to say one thing. Hello, my name is Nina. I can't believe I'm up here. I did not plan on speaking tonight. And I just want to express that as a parent of two children in the MDUN public school systems, I'm a little surprised that parents are surprised that these books are coming up. You're all given a syllabus at the beginning of the year. I have been had access to all of my children's syllabi for all

109of their classes like since they at least hit middle school. You have an opportunity to get ahead of this instead of react to it. And I suggest that you do. [Applause] May I, Mr. Mayor? Good evening, members of the school committee, madame superintendent, and the members of the public. My name is Alejandro Vayas, 152 Center Street. I'm here to talk about a couple items on the agenda. First, I want to direct attention to agenda item 6B, superintendent search process discussion. For full transparency, the public should know that I am a candidate for the Mthuan School Committee. However, my thoughts on this discussion are based on facts, evidence, and reason. Given the fact that despite any possible outcome to this upcoming election, this body will not look the same, that is my first reason for stating

110that this current school committee should not be involved in the upcoming superintendent search. Now, I firmly believe this is the case whether or not I am elected. Some might be asking why is that? Well, because I believe that this school committee, or at least a majority, has exercised poor judgment when it comes to evaluating the superintendent. Let's look at the evidence that will back up my claim. In an operations and culture audit released on September 30th, auditors show inconsistent support for students, low morale in schools, lack of career advancement opportunities, a disconnect between staff and admins, maintenance issues, communications issues, and compliance issues. Yet, if we go back to this past school year's evaluation of the superintendent, we can find that this school committee, not including Ken Wlette and Christristen Maxwell, as they did not

111submit an evaluation, but the rest of the school committee unanimous unanimously found the superintendent proficient in intellectual leadership, inter instructional leadership, and professional culture. Under family and community engagement, she was found proficient with member Keegan finding her exemplary. Finally, under management and operations, she was found needs improvement across the board except member Shabilia who found her proficient. There seems to be a contradiction here and it is for this reason that I call for the arrival of at least a few new faces to help the district move forward whether it is with me or it is not me. The second item on the agenda is 9B the discussion on the novel the absolutely true diary of a part-time Indian. Some of you may know or can tell I'm a young man. I can remember reading this

112book in high school not too long ago. Anyways, I want to turn your attention to the author Sherman Alexi, which was previously talked about. Like I stated before, I have read the book. I can also identify with Junior, the main character who goes through struggles with disabilities as I myself have a disability being bullied for leaving his community by his community as I had to leave as I left my community to commute 40 minutes to go to high school, a private high school. And the kids at Rearen High School, the school he transferred to in the book, as my high school that I went to was 18 to 23% diverse when I throughout the years that I was there. I can see the benefits of teaching the struggles of growing up in an environment of

113poverty, substance abuse, mental health issues, and other issues that are important in this society. But here's where Mr. Alexi, the author, comes in. In 2017 18, he was accused of harassment and sexual misconduct. He admitted in an apology letter that he did things that quote harmed other people unquote. Some have accused him of holding the careers of women Native American authors over their heads, abusing his power as an acclaimed writer. The issue lies in the fact that how can we teach and let me let me be clear, not ban but teach. How can we teach a book that teaches about Native American oppression, but whose author furthered that oppression and who admitted to sexual misconduct? I hope that my comments spark reflection when it comes to reading further Sherman Alexi novels and I hope that

114my perspective was of help to the discussion. Thank you. [Applause] Hello. Uh my name is Matthew Jalbert. I resident of Mthuan. Um I have three children in the school system. One in high school uh two in upper school that go to the Timn. Um I'm here today to discuss the agenda item of the absolutely true diary of a part-time Indian. um not a great speaker so bear with me. Uh but when uh banning banning books uh will negatively affect a kid's educational development. It can limit world views by restricting their exposure to to different cultures, ideas, and experiences. Without books like this one, students might not understand what it's like for others to live in this world and with the challenges other other culture other cultures experience uh that can be different from their own.

115If we start banning books for kids because some are uncomfortable with what a book is is about, where does that end? If you bring 10 people into a room and give them the same three books to read, you can possibly have 10 people with all all 10 with different thoughts and views on each book. Of those three books, at least one of one of those people, one of those 10 people can find something offensive about that book. Should that mean we ban that book? Or would or would it be better to have a group discussion about the book so that those that have an issue can have a better understanding about about the book in question? Books can books can help students with their c with their critical thinking. Um the sorry bear with me.

116Books. Books can have books can help students with their critical thinking. If we even consider banning this book, we are removing thought-provoking literature that denies students opportunities to grapple with complex themes, moral dilemmas, and develop critical thinking thinking and analytical skills. That's all I had written. Um, but it's just it's it's a book and you're going to find many books that are going to have different view different views and issues that people just aren't going to like. Um, you know, it's it's you're not going to please everyone. So, I think banning this book would just bring us down a road that we don't want to go. Um, you know, my my wife uh who spoke earlier, she did read the book. Um, and she has recommended her it to both my daughters. Uh, who my

117son's a little too young right now for that book. He wouldn't be able to comprehend it. Um, but my other two daughters would would have no problem reading it and I'm I'm perfectly fine with them reading it as well. Um, I would even recommend it to some of my nieces of the same age. So, um, I just don't think that this should be discussed um, any further. I think we should just not ban books for that reason. So, thank you. [Applause] Are there any other residents who wish to speak? If not, we'll have uh the reading of some written submissions from the vice chair. As the only librarian in the district, I feel a responsibility to offer a statement about the recent challenge to the novel, The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian by

118Sherman Alexi. In my two decades in Mthuan, I have taught Alexis's novel a multiple a multitude of times during my years as an English teacher. It is an award-winning coming of age story just as compelling as other classics such as Catcher and the Rye, Huck Finn, or Tequila Mockingbird. But perhaps this title is even more important because it represents the marginalized voice, one which is relatable to many students here. The main character's journey into adulthood in the novel outweighs the one line in question that can easily be taken out of context. Junior faces challenges and struggles that many teens can identify with. The clash of culture and identity, poverty, racism, domestic violence, bullying, and loss. How pertinent is it then that Gordy, the geeky friend, tells Junior in the novel that a book needs to

119be read three times before you really know it? He explains that the first reading is for plot, the second for history, and the third is for meaning and connection. I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment that we cannot read a book once and really understand it. And we cannot read one isolated sentence of a book and weigh its value in the world. Junior's realization is poignant when he says he quote suddenly understood that even if a moment of a book should be taken seriously then every moment of life should be taken seriously as well end quote. This novel reflects real life. Sometimes it's hard to look at, difficult to hear and digest, but if we start censoring books that make us uncomfortable, we'll be left with nearly empty shelves. Ray Bradberry cautioned in Fahrenheit 451, "There

120is more than one way to burn a book, and the world is full of people running around with lit matches. If you consider removing one title from the curriculum, it concerns me that the library books may not be safe from the lit matches either. In my current role as librarian, I hope to ensure accessibility of the widest range of fiction and non-fiction for our students, this title included. I support any parent or students right to opt out of any novel or curriculum they feel strongly against. But I believe it would be a grave mistake to remove a novel for all students. I hope the school committee continues to trust its teachers to bring to light themes that matter in life, empathy and compassion and hope through texts like part-time Indian. Thank you. Vanessa Guthrie, Methu

121and High staff to the members of the Methuan School Committee. Before hearing about the agenda for this meeting, I had never read Sherman Alexis's The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian. When I learned it would be discussed, I did what I always do when faced with something new and unfamiliar. I didn't hide from it or vilify it. I decided to get curious about it and read the book. I'm so glad I did. The book is a powerful story about belonging and male friendship told with raw honesty and sharp humor. As a middle school ELA teacher, I recognize it as a text that can engage even the most reluctant readers, sparking meaningful discussions and exposing students to perspectives they might not otherwise encounter. Having taught literature to middle schoolers for over a dozen years, I

122have seen firsthand how books foster empathy. Through characters experiences, students can gain insight into lives different from their own. Books that succeed in this do not shy away from difficult realities these characters face. As an educator, I am deeply concerned by the efforts to remove such books from students who most need to develop awareness and understanding of diverse life experiences. Regarding the bathroom policy under consideration, Massachusetts law already provides clear protections. Massachusetts general laws chapter 76 section 5 prohibits discrimination based on gender identity in all public schools, including access to bathrooms that correspond with a student's gender identity. Schools must be a safe place where all students can learn and grow. Providing transgender and non-binary students with access to facilities that affirm their identities is a fundamental right. This access is provided to students within

123my district on a daily basis with very few issues. It is puzzling that those most vocal in opposition are often not those directly impacted. Thank you for considering my perspective. I urge the committee to support literature and policies that promote inclusion, empathy, and respect for all students. Sincerely, Megan Kaiser to the Methuan School Committee. My name is Jessica Wong. I am a parent and a community member here in Methuan. I want to speak tonight about two important issues being discussed. Transgender student bathrooms and the conversations surrounding the absolutely true diary of a part-time Indian that could potentially lead to it being banned. First, regarding transgendered bathrooms, Massachusetts law already protects transgender students rights to use the bathroom or locker room that matches their gender identity. This has been in place since 2016 under both state

124law and the Department of Education guidance. Revisiting or quote discussing unquote this right does not change the law, but it can cause harm. When we publicly question whether transgender students belong, we risk isolating and stigmatizing children who already face higher rates of bullying and anxiety. Any discussion on this topic should focus solely on ensuring compliance with the law and on fostering a safe, inclusive environment for every student in our district. Second, I am concerned about the discussion regarding the absolutely true diary of a part-time Indian that could lead to it being removed from our curriculum or library shelves. This book offers an honest, heartfelt portrayal of a native a Native American teenager navigating poverty, identity, and hope. It provides a meaningful window into the experiences of a marginalized group and helps students build empathy and

125understanding. 10th graders are more than capable of processing its content. By that age, they've had health and sexual education and can relate to the character struggles with identity growth and resilience. Conversations about potentially banning books like this do more harm than good. They send a message that challenging topics should be silenced instead of explored. Our schools should empower students to think critically, ask questions, and engage with diverse perspectives, not shield them from them. Thank you for your time and continued dedication to Methuan Schools. Sincerely, Jessica Wong. Good evening. My name is Ya Ducey Anthony and I have been a Methuan resident for 22 years, most recently residing on Maple Street. My children were born and raised here in Methuan. It has been brought to my attention that two items are being raised for discussion. A

126book in the high school curriculum and transgender bathroom use. One, book review in the high school curriculum for concerns of inappropriate content. The Absolutely True Diary of a Half Indian by Alexi Sherman. Book bands around the country have been largely conducted by groups concerned about children being exposed to topics they find inappropriate. I find that books that are being selected for bands are those that offer our children different perspectives and narratives other than the mainstream cisgender white story. Why would we want our children to be raised with closed minds when the world is a wonderfully diverse and interesting place? Teachers and librarians work very hard to ensure books are relevant and worthwhile. So, I find it a bit ridiculous that anyone outside of the education would have a deep opinion without their training. If you

127don't like a book that your child is assigned, have a conversation with their teacher and your child. Two, discussion about transgendered kids using the bathrooms. Statistically, the largest risk in to our children in bathrooms are straight white men, not transgendered kids who are given the right to use the bathroom of their choosing under state law. In the US, 1% of people identify as transgender. Why is there so much outrage and persecution for this tiny percentage of our population? Are we going to start scrutinizing women with short hair? How about those that lost their breasts due to cancer? Any person who does not conform to the mainstream view of gender will be under suspicion, and there have been several cases in the news already. A female Walmart associate was followed into a restroom by a man

128who thought she was transgender simply because she was 6'4. Who was the larger danger to women in that bathroom? We need to stop the madness and focus on the true issues at hand affecting our kids. Reduction in staff, discipline in schools, and access to quality food. Thank you. Yawa Ducey Anthony. Dear members of the Mthuan School Committee, my name is Sarah Bournestein and I am a Methuan resident. I'm writing to express my strong opposition to the proposed banning of Sherman Alexis the absolutely true diary of a part-time Indian for from our curriculum. I believe that removing this book would be a disservice to our students and to the educational mission of our district. Below are some reasons I urge you to reconsider. Banning books sets a dangerous precedent. Once a book is banned for being

129uncomfortable or controversial, which book is safe next? Students come from many backgrounds and experiences. Literature like this expands their worldview. We live in a diverse society. Limiting what voices or stories youths may access contradicts inclusive values. If there are concerns about specific passages, the better answer is context, guided discussion, trigger warnings, alternative reading options, or parental opt out, not wholesale banning. Removing the book harms students who would find value and relevance in its pages. Many school districts around the country have defended this book against bans, citing its high demand, curricular usefulness, and student engagement. I respectfully urge you to vote against a ban and instead support preserving student access to a full range of literature with thoughtful guidance where needed. Additionally, I also want to express my strong support for ensuring that all students, including

130transgendered and gender non-conforming students, have access to bathrooms that align with their gender identity. Massachusetts law prohibits discrimination on the basis of gender identity in public schools. General law chapter 76, section 5. And the Massachusetts Department of Elementary and Secondary Education has issued guidance affirming that schools should allow students to use bathrooms with their gender identity. Using a restroom that does not match one's gender identity can be deeply distressing and alienating, causing students to avoid using the restroom during the school day, which can negatively impact health, focus, and learning. Conversely, affirming students in their identity supports inclusive and respectful school climate, reduces stigma, and helps all students feel seen, safe, and respected. Schools are entrusted to serve all students impartially. Providing access respectfully helps reinforce Mthuan's commitment to fairness, equity, and respect for all families,

131regardless of gender identity. Thank you for your time and your dedication to our schools and your willingness to hear community voices. Regards, Sarah Bornstein. That's all. So, at this time, I will I will close uh public participation. If you cannot make a meeting in person for public participation, you can send an email to Susan Shanti at SNS CIO NIMthuan.k12.mma.us us before 300 p.m. on the day of the school committee meeting. Now, at this point, in keeping with our amended agenda, we'll proceed to other business from the committee. Now, at this point, we can engage uh in discussion regarding these various items. We'll begin uh with the school committee policy review. I'll invite member Maxwell to begin that discussion and then we'll proceed to the other topics on the agenda. >> Okay. Um so item A

1329A was school committee policy review discuss discussion. Um I know that I had a chance to amend the agenda. I chose not to do that. Um however these topics are a total miscommunication on Dr. Kuang's end um and not my words of um the agenda items. But let's go with that and let's say that they are school committee subcommittee policy review discussion. The full committee questioned um the efficiency of this review. I think uh member Dunovan um questioned the efficiency of this review process and I assured her and everyone that now that I was getting the material it would go much smoother. However, since then, I believe that the process needs attention, that we can't give it, and I think I'd like to halt the process until a better system is discussed. I think that

133um the policy subcommittee meetings are every Wednesday, and um the three of us are very busy between um school committee meetings and other obligations that we have or whatever. I noticed in the last policy meeting that we brought the concerns to the table. I was I had a lot of questions and I could have h asked those questions in the subcommittee meeting. Sure. But there isn't enough time to ask those questions. We are given a recommendations from MASC and we choose in the subcommittee whether we like that or we don't like that. However, it's not tailored to Methuan specifically. So we need to meet between that Wednesday and the following Wednesday, which we have never done, to discuss how we can tailor those policies to Mthuan. We're not doing that. So I don't feel like

134we're doing our due diligence when it comes to policy review. I think that to review the policies from A to K or A to A to Z, let's just go with A to Z. To review all of them in 3 to six months is a lot of work. Um, I know that I had requested all of the material be printed and and given to me beforehand. However, I'm not getting it right I'm getting it right before the meeting or the day before the meeting. And yes, I'm committed to school committee and my obligation to the subcommittee, but I can't review you. You saw it for yourself. There are about 45 items in in section A, and I can't review all of those items, present my questions, get the answers, and adjust the policy to fit

135Methuan's needs. So, the reason I brought this to the agenda is because I'd like to discuss or I'd like to motion that we table or that we halt the process with the subcommittee because right now it is a busy time. Um, there is a new school committee coming in and I think that it would be better for the students, the district, the staff and the school committee as a whole if we could review um our policies with the intention of making it um methan based, not just based off of recommendations, which I appreciate Alicia's time. I'm not saying that. I just think that we should focus our energy on Methuan and not necessarily a recommendation from um the state or or whatever. You know, if it's state law, I have had no questions. I have

136not adjusted any of those. But when it comes to I mean the wellness the wellness policy has come to this committee three times and all of us at this table has overlooked the fact that it says please select options below these items and we are ready to approve that policy. We haven't even selected the criteria to do that but we're going to approve it. Um, so I would just ask that the the whole committee, you know, consider that we halt the process and I don't know I don't know if you could help me, but do I make a motion to do that? Um, what what is the process there? >> So, we don't have a specific vote on the the agenda, but what we could do is if it is your request, that is something

137that maybe we could have as an actionable item for the committee to consider at the next meeting. >> Great. Sir, >> I just wanted to give honest feedback because I do feel like I reassured you, member Dunovan, last meeting that we could in fact get this done and it could be done in an efficient way and I I don't feel like that anymore. Um, so I would like to um I would like to do that, have it placed on the agenda for an actionable item. >> I will take note of that. Member Shabilia. So, I appreciate member Maxwell's concern for our schedules because mine is Yeah, we're busy. Everyone's busy. However, when this process was planned and we paid the fee to MASC to do this, it was acknowledged at the time that this is

138a three-year process. They advertised this as a three-year process. That will be this school committee, the next one, and maybe a little bit of the following. Also, we as a body are here till December. We should not stop doing work. We still have a district to manage. Our vote is still as valid as it was in January as it will be at the end of December. Until the following January when some of us will not be here anymore. The city council is not stopping their work. We should not be stopping ours. That being said, the policies that we've been working on are given to us. I've had I What are we doing tomorrow? Is it Is it HG? Whatever the section was came out last week. Got the email from Alicia last week. That gives

139us plenty of time to review it. We have been given every opportunity to ask questions. She has given us every opportunity to change things. Nothing we have voted on is finalized yet. We likely will not vote to finalize anything because it won't be done in our tenure. But that doesn't mean we stop doing the work. If the next body wants to go back and change something, more power to them. Get your quorum. Happy days. But that doesn't mean we stop. Also, section A was our first one. That was what we started with here. What was it? Two, three, four weeks ago whenever we had our first meeting. Was it pretty? God, no. We had no idea what we were doing. We were trying to figure it out. And we weren't all in attendance at those

140meetings. Some of us missed a meeting here and there. And that's okay. It happens. But to say that this is an impractical or a waste of time or that we should stop, I disagree. And if member Maxwell, I guess my suggestion would be if if you're not interested in being part of the committee, we then we can ask for a vote and we can find someone else. It's just we shouldn't be stopping the work we're doing. Thank you, >> Chairman. Member will >> I think by U member Shabilia's own statements, he said that this is a three-year contract in duration. So what is the rush? And I emphasized myself what was the rush to support a superintendent's contract before the audit was published. And again, what is the rush here when you're going to have

141automatically two members of the school committee depart through various means. So you're going to have a sizable composition of the school committee come January and you might have a turnover of that said school committee come January. So if the contract is three years and we've had to deal with contract negotiations, we've had to deal with massive uh budget issues and marathon budget meetings. We've had to deal with the audit as a factor. We've had discussions about the evaluation and test scores. Now we're going into this colossal project which we never undertook before in our history. And yet we're going to rush when we know for a fact two members of this committee will not be part of the committee come January. So I agree with member Maxwell. I don't see the urgency of it. And

142to stockpile meetings when you have a lame duck school committee, I don't think services the Mithan residents. So I'll say that for the record. Thank you, >> Mr. Mayor. For point of clarification, this subcommittee started, I believe it was February. So to say there's a rush now is about eight months too late. Um, I just wanted to note too that um, I just think that because we're not meeting in between to discuss anything, our focus, there's a lot going on right now and our focus could be better used on things like the audit facilities, staff and student handbooks, behavior management system, our decap policy, vision of a graduate, our mission statement, superintendent goals for the district, real goals on literacy. I think that those should be our primary focus and the attention that we're giving.

143Let me be clear. I never said I wanted off of the policy subcommittee. I said that we're not able to do the job that we are saying we are doing. Yes, we did have access to the documents before this week. You're right. However, I've made it very clear that I obviously have a reading deficiency or a reading disability and I have trouble reading on a screen. So, if I've asked that these documents be printed, I'm not given those until the day before or the day of that meeting. So, with that being said, I don't have time to review the policies that are presented. I don't have time to ask the appropriate questions. And when I reach out to Alicia and I call Alicia, I don't get a phone call back. So that's where I stand

144on this. I think our focus could be served much better in updating the the problems at hand that we have in this district instead of focusing on reviewing and updating a policy manual that's going to take us three years. We've done great work in the last eight months. I'm not asking that we stop the work. I'm asking that we halt it because it's a lot to take on right now in this moment. We have to look for a new superintendent. We have to review and audit. We have to update all of those decap and vision of it. And all of those are in the superintendent's goals. So why not focus our energy on things that are more pressing than something that could be dealt with in three years? We've paid for three years and we're

145already halfway through the policies. So, I just hope that everybody reconsiders. That's all. I do not want to be off of the subcommittee. I think I bring a solid voice to that and I hope that everyone can see where I'm coming from in this because it's just a very overwhelming process. That's all. >> Any other discussion? If not, we'll move on. Next on the agenda, we have a discussion regarding uh the novel uh at the high school, The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian. Um Member Maxwell, I'll let you open this up. >> Um so I want to be very clear when I open this up that no one insinuated or mentioned the banning of a book. Nobody asked for the book to be banned. However, there was a complaint brought to us as

146a school committee or as a few of us got an email from a parent, a concerned parent. It is literally our jobs as elected officials to hear the complaints and concerns of parents and bring them forward. I brought them forward for a discussion with Dr. Kuang and um other people in an email. Um, and I'd like to start by saying that when we were given a response to that email, the parents email, it was there were two issues brought to my attention today by two members. I want to share my response with the whole committee as I understand one of the concerns was an anonymous Facebook posting over the weekend which is not true. We got an email from a parent and we addressed that email. Yes, it was also posted on Facebook. And the

147other topic was about bathroom use by transgender student. Also again not the case. Dr. Gowski assisted in gathering the information and formulating the response for number one which is novel. The absolutely true diary of a part-time Indian by Sherman Alexi is a text teachers may select within the MHS grade 10 English curriculum. This text has been included in the curriculum for over 10 years and in a national book award winner 2007 Boston Globe Horn Book Award winner 2008. In 2013 it was selected by Malden Reads as the citywide high school and adult book selection. Residents were invited to read the book and participate related events and protected and projects centered on the book's themes. We have confirmed over 10 public high schools in Massachusetts that currently use the text as an option for teachers to

148select within their curriculum, primarily in grade nine. The portion of the book that was shown on Facebook was read nearly two weeks ago. Neither the teacher or the administrators received any complaints or concerns from the students or parents regarding this text. This text was um this text was listed in the English course syllabus that the um teachers shared with parents and students with a place for the parent and signature student signature. The MHS English department expectations document which is also distributed to students and parents for signatures includes the language listed below. The teacher who is currently using this text with some of her classes has yet to distribute the expectations document. Occasionally books and and films are of high literacy merit contain controversial content and works of this sort may be used in some English

149classes. The department encourages any parent who prefers that his or her child not be assigned these works to discuss with the teacher who may suggest an alternative assignment. Great. Massachusett two Massachusetts law prevents all Massachusetts school districts from discriminating against student based on gender identity. The district continues to follow Massachusetts law as required. The district applies policies and procedures consistent with the rec requirements of Massachusetts law. One such m uh MGL chapter 76 section 5. My response to this email, which is where these agenda items came from, was good morning. I'd like to request that these topics be added to the agenda for discussion. Let me let me just clarify to you. When I brought this email to Dr. Wang. It was I was told there was a boy, not a transgender student, there was

150a boy in the girls bathroom. I'd like to request that this topic be added to the agenda for discussion for October 14th meeting. The agenda is not posted yet, so this should not be an issue. It was said that 10 other high schools currently use this text, which was presented as a significant number. However, there are 613 public high schools in Massachusetts. That's 02%. I'm told this book appears on the banned book list in the library. So, how did it slip through the approval process? I didn't ban this book. I'm not asking for it to be banned. I'm also concerned that students and/or families were not provided an opt out option for this material even though it contains sensitive and potentially uncomfortable content. So much so that the teacher reportedly was unwilling to read it.

151Rather than reviewing the appropriate appropriateness of this book, parents were given the option to remove their child from class and have them sent to the library, which I've been told we don't have any librarians in the district, to complete alternative online assignments. Removing a student from a class for the remainder of a semester should not be considered an acceptable resolution. It was also mentioned that the book was read two weeks ago. Does that eliminate the parents right to to raise a concern after the fact? I really can't understand why that was even said. Lastly, when a parent asked about the use of transgender bathrooms, the boy being in the bathroom, they received a blanket response about Massachusetts general law protecting all students. While protection, while those protections are important, there are also concerns regarding how

152this policy affects biological male and female students who have expressed discomfort. Several high school girls have reportedly voiced that they feel uncomfortable. And when parents raise these concern, they're told that their children may use the genderneutral bathroom. That response does not address the situation for students who are not genderneutral. I believe these issues warrant open discussion at the committee level. Please ensure this topic is added to the agenda. Not once did I mention banning a book. Not once did I mention transgender bathrooms and not using them. Um, my concerns with the book was that a parent brought this item to me saying that her child was uncomfortable for whatever reason. I don't need to know the reason. I know that she mentioned God and being talk, you know, being mocked through God. I would have

153to say that I don't blame her for that. We can't even say Merry Christmas in our schools. Um, but when it when it comes to the book concerns, my questions were my my my concerns were I was going to read the page, but the parent already did that. This isn't a fictional novel. This is supposedly the real life account of a 14-year-old boy. Would we allow students to get up and give their real life accounts of the times they've masturbated in front of the class? What if the teacher told theirs? You've heard from parents who are opposed to the book and teachers that were uncomfortable and these complaints aren't unique to this district. It's a controversial book. So why read it when it's just easy to do something else? Am I saying that we should

154remove the book from the library? No. Am I asking that maybe we don't read it out loud in a classroom full of 14year-old students who may not be comfortable with the topic? Maybe. Maybe we could find a different alternative. not seclude that child to the library to read by herself and perform online assignments. How is this book related to the curriculum? I think I've gotten that answer tonight. How is it being framed to ensure that it remains educational? A parents informed ahead of time and given an opt- out option. Massachusetts general law, as so many have quoted it tonight, and Desi Regulations, requires that school adopt a policy that is turned in to the principles by September 1st of every year for parental notification and provides parents the flexibility to exempt their child from any

155part of a curriculum that involves human sexual education or human sexuality issues. So, which policy of ours has been made available to parents? That's a question I would like answered tonight. This book did in fact include sexual material. Whether you want to deny that or not deny that, this book does contain sexual material. So, why wasn't an opt out form given to parents? Are teachers receiving training and discussion guides to have respectful age appropriate classroom dialogue? And which syllabus was this on, the honors or the college course? Is the teacher pre is this just teacher preference on which books they use? Could a curriculum protocol be established so that families can preview key reading materials each semester? Those are all the questions that I had that I was bringing forward. But I just want to

156make it very clear to the public, to anybody listening, to anybody that's willing to hear me out. As an elected official, it is my job to bring forward concerns of parents and staff or whoever in this district. It is literally the job we're hired to do. I did just that. And I've been attacked. I've been mocked. I've been told I'm uneducated. And I didn't spend the day with my 10-year-old yesterday celebrating his birthday because I was getting texts, emails, and calls all day long. That's not fair. I have made it very clear to parents and very clear to staff if you have a concern that you're uncomfortable discussing or bringing up for public discussion, I will do it. Even if I don't agree and I will stand by that and I will continue to do

157that. And if that's a problem, then I'm sorry that you have a problem with that. But it is my job as an elected official. That's what I'm doing. That is all I have to say. I just would like the answer to do you find did you find in this book that it was a sexual material? So, I'm actually going to give you um give the school committee um a legal opinion because based on your um email to me and some questions that you asked in that email you read about FAPE uh and a few other Thank you. a few other things I did ask uh and discussed it with the mayor and the vice chair to get this. So I do want to bring >> you have emailed me that back privately so that it

158wouldn't have been added to the agenda. If my questions were answered in the email then I may not have brought it to the agenda. >> So I just got this today. I think that there was some back and forth that we had and your request came Thursday to put on the agenda which the mayor and I discussed and we did add it uh and we added it as it was discussed in your uh email. So I'm I'm not sure I'm clear on how I miscommunicated the agenda items. I didn't use the word ban. You didn't use the word ban. You just wanted a discussion about the novel. That is what I put on the agenda. And the discussion was absolutely about transgender student use and bathroom access in the email you sent the mayor and

159I. >> We haven't gotten to that topic yet. This is about the book. >> So, um, there's two things in here. There's three items in here I think that are really important for us because there are questions about an opt out and and there seems to be confusion about the requirement for an opt out. And so I think if I uh direct your attention to page two of this if you would so uh follow with me here that we do have a policy it's policy IE and there are two circumstances that parents can opt out and the first one is very clear which has been very well known in Massachusetts of health and sexual education that parents can opt out of that those lessons that are very explicitly uh focused on the content of uh

160sexual education. The second is what we started to discuss this summer which is the Mimmude versus Taylor decision. And I think this helps bring this a little more to uh an understanding that it really is the Mimmude versus Taylor is about when the content severely interferes with the religious belief. Uh that we do have to uh acknowledge that and make sure that we have alternatives. Um and so that is discussed and explained here that it's not necessarily when uh content is incidental uh and not the focus of the actual intellectual content. And so, uh, when you look at a book like this, when you look at a lot of our novels and literature, there are different scenes, there's different language that are used that would be considered incidental and in nature and not necessarily to

161uh provide context for the whole theme or uh the character development. I'm saying that, but Dr. Golovsky could could add to that. So I think this explains there was again confusion about the fact that there was a required opt out before kids read this section and that's not the case. Uh and we don't do a required opt out. We follow what is here. Uh we have been very careful to have those conversations since we learned about this in July August right I mean it's only been six seven weeks of school. Um so we are working through these. We certainly uh we did not hear from any parents when this happened. We only heard uh from a couple of parents after this came up by member Maxwell. Um and so we at the principal and the

162department head and I think Dr. Gowski had a conversation with one of the parents together. Um and both students were absolutely given alternatives. Uh and it's not for the entire semester. It's just for the book. Nobody's pulling kids from a class for a semester. So, it's just an alternative uh while the students are finishing the actual novel um which might actually be done at this point in that class. It's close to it uh in the next week or two. So, uh I just I think there's miscommunication there and a lot of assumptions being directed of how that is being done. Uh this is a co-taught classroom that was in question. Uh I do have copies of the syllabus for everybody uh if you would like to see that. The syllabus was given to uh all

163the students. Parents were invited into the Google classrooms to also view it and sign it. Uh if they didn't sign it, it was a homework assignment. So the students lost points. Um it was also given at open house and a description of all the books on this list was discussed at open house. So parents had multiple opportunities to know that this book uh and the others listed there are in the curriculum. It's a co-taught class, meaning both of those teachers, it's actually uh English learner co-taught class. So, the teacher uh who is in the classroom for for all periods every time that that block meets. Thank you. Um is the one who read the passage out loud. So, so yes, I think there's some conversation happening between Miss Dumont, the English language chair, and the

164teachers about could there have been things that were done differently? Absolutely. Nobody's saying that things are done perfectly. We have new teachers. We have teachers using different novels. Uh and we're supporting them in every way we can. Uh and we're going to support uh all the the students as well. So if there's a level of uncomfortableness uh we will absolutely have those discussions and talk about alternatives. We have always done that. Um, so I just I think that's sort of where we are in this and I again I would just encourage you to read through this uh to have a better understanding of you know we're not giving our our students that's not quite how public education works that you get an opt out of of all things uh in our curriculum. Uh but there

165are things that we stand by and there are policies that we currently have that uh support what was given to us. Uh, and this was just received today. So, this isn't something I You asked me these questions on Thursday. We put it on the agenda. I asked for legal counsel. I had conversations with the mayor and and the vice chair about seeking legal counsel to make sure I had these answers that you didn't think it was just something I was reporting to you or reporting without the actual knowledge. And so, it's here. Uh, as is the question you asked about free and appropriate public education, which is really focused on students with disabilities. that would be done by a student uh you know IEP team. But um we are certainly providing uh students with a

166free and appropriate public education with our options and alternatives. And then the first uh section here is just a little more elaboration on the transgender discussion and the the laws that everybody has pointed out and everybody seems to understand. >> We'll have two five minute speaking rounds so we can circle back. Member Wlette I have serious reservations about this entire process because who determines what is primarily or substantially interfering with a parent's determination of their child's education or their own personal religious or moral beliefs. This should automatically be a parental opt out >> which we we said we would do and we did. >> What? No, excuse me. We're not going to put the cat before the horse. We're not going to put the hay back into the barn or anything like that. Was there

167an opt out or not? >> No. Okay. Because there was no required opt out needed. >> For on the record at a prior meeting, I wanted a parental opt out universally if anything dealt with sexuality. And I was voted uh by the majority against. Okay. I want a parents bill of rights and I still think that parents still have a right under their civil rights with the United States Department of Education to avail themselves and I encourage them to do so because I think this is in violation of that Supreme Court decision. How do we determine someone's religious belief or moral beliefs when we're talking about a book? And this was the biggest gaslighting episode I've ever witnessed in all my years of public service in Mthan. I thought this was discussion was 1984 with

168George Orwell. No one ever said that there was a banning of any books. I take umbrage to that. I've read gender queer. Would anybody want to read gender queer to minor students? You want me to bring that in tomorrow? And member Maxwell and I could read gender queer. That's on the list of ban books at the Ne library. I never witnessed that something such as parents rights is such an alien concept to some people. And I it's amazing. You can call me a conservative and you equate that racism and then you wonder why we have a division in this country. You gaslight me. You accused me of banning the book. I listened to you and then I heard laughter in the audience when we finally spoke. I didn't laugh. I didn't turn my head. I

169didn't leave the room and it was on my phone. I listened to you intently. But in turn person makes a con a comment contrary to your beliefs laughter is engaged. So the parents should not be put onto an island. The kid should not be put onto an island. There should be a parental opt out option. We're not going to put Humpty Dumpty back together again on this. I've already referred people to the Massachusetts Family Institute and their Civil Liberties Center. I believe that's civil rights violations similar to Burlington in play here and it has nothing to do with the content of the book. In high school, I read 1984 and I understand the concept of gaslighting and convincing your opponent to believe in your agenda and keep on hammering away and give speeches. I encourage

170everyone to read 1984 because I witnessed it here tonight and there was some brave souls that came to that podium and gave speeches and I commend them. But please don't accuse me of banning books, right? And then the other topic was if there's a boy a boy >> that's the next >> in a girl's uh bathroom. >> Okay, >> that's the next topic. Okay, if there's a boy because you know again I got a legal advisory of anything under the sun right and I got it just now that's a disservice to the school committee but I've witnessed that over the last two years of this. So thank you >> member Daglio. Hi. Um, hi. Um, I Yeah, that this is first to me and this what hit me really quick when it came to banning

171a book. Um, a parent brought to a concern and I read the passage and I said, I will look into it because if it was a book entirely inappropriate, I would I would like to have that discussion out in the open. Now, I just read the summary. I'll be honest with you. I just read the summary. I'm I'm sorry. I I will read the book. I am I I I asked my girlfriend, she was in the back, to order it on Amazon. Okay? I will read the book. I'm happy to do that. But what I what I don't like though is the passive aggressiveness that's being shared in the room right now. We are all adults. I I teach my students every day that it's okay to have a difference of opinion and it's okay

172to have different sides of an issue and to laugh or to kid about someone's beliefs that is not we talk about rights and under the constitution you also have freedom of speech all right so I am all in you know you want to uphold constitutional rights that we keep hearing ing in different topics. You're right. But you also have the right to freedom of speech. And if we haven't learned anything in the last 3, four months, that that's what's really dividing us as a nation. It's not political parties. It's not where we stand. It's the fact that you can't sit down and have a conversation with someone and disagree with each other, which then we'll sit in a classroom and we'll tell students, it's okay to disagree with each other when you see adults on

173Facebook going at it. All right? And I tell my kids every day, do not listen to people on TikTok. Don't listen to all these social medias because half of them don't know what they're talking about because they're misinformation. All right. This whole ban thing, I don't know what went on in Facebook. I ignored it. I just All right. But nobody picked up a phone. Nobody picked up a phone and called me, which a lot of you know me. If you picked up a phone and you asked me what I truly believed in, I would have told you, I'm not banning a book. I just want to get down to the book. And I even said it to parents tonight. I did not read the book. You tell me. But that passage obviously bothered someone and

174they have the right to feel bothered just like you guys would feel bothered to for banning the book. I I heard all of you. You were very very in in an agreement that that book shouldn't be banned. And you know what? You have every right to believe in that because I don't believe in uh if we learned about history. Everybody wants to talk about history. Well, Nazi Germany, they ban books. I don't I don't want to ban books because that takes away minds. It takes away creative minds. It takes people to stand up for themselves. However, though, they should have the right to stand up for themselves on the opposition side as well. So, if people have a problem with that, then you know what? Pick up a phone and have a conversation or sit

175at a coffee shop that I've been sitting with people that have been in a disagreement with me. And you know what? At the end of that table conversation, I said, "Hey, at least we can be friends afterwards." I And I don't want to call out people in the audience, but Alejandro, you and I had a conversation about 3 months ago. Do we agree on everything? No. But do we leave the table agreeing that we will be friends? >> We're not going to have a back and forth. >> But okay, you I'm making a point. No, but no. The point is though is I don't like the passive aggressive in this room. If you are not going to sit here and I listen to other people speak, just leave cuz that's what's dividing us. And I'm

176not I just feel like we're better than that. Mthuan's better than that. That's all. >> Member Shabilia. So, I think there's a lot of nuance missed in some of those statements. The whole agree to disagree thing works great when you're talking about pineapples on pizza, not when you're talking about ignorance and bigotry. So, I mean, we we can agree to disagree there, but I think what we need to realize is that one parent's perspective does not mean or outweigh another parent's right to perspective. Whether it's banning a book or a requirement for an opt out for every book, it's really only about fear. It's fear of ideas or fear of uh differences or fear of discussion. And Miss Figueroa was right. We do need a place to have safe discussions. But just because people are

177angry and don't like what you have to say doesn't make it not safe. It just it just doesn't. If we start pulling all the books that we worked so hard for over the last two years to get into our what we're calling libraries, we're going to have nothing but coloring books on the shelves. It's we're not protecting the kids by not letting them or by hiding this type of book for them. We're we're effectively discouraging their voice. We're teaching them to be afraid of the world around them. We have a lot of uh Facebook quarterbacks and we've all been there. We've all done it, but none of us are qualified to determine what justifies an appropriate book for a 10th grade English class. Not a single person in this room. Well, that's not true. You

178guys are qualified. None of us are qualified to determine what makes an appropriate book for a 10th grade English class. Zero. We have no training, no education and no ability to determine that because we don't know. And then if we start and it comes out, you know, there's if these books aren't qualified and there's no assessment, then it becomes parental control and then that is a slippery slope into governmental control because a few parents are now dictating what the government needs to do. this book, which I admit I didn't read because it quite frankly doesn't matter what the book says because I would support it being read in class because someone with far more education than I have deemed it appropriate. But these are issues that these kids see every day, every single day. Um,

179the song spent 24 weeks in the top of the Billboard music chart. every country song, every hip-hop song, most rock songs, far more graphic than anything in this book. If you think that these kids aren't sitting in class with their earphones in, their headphones in, listening to this music that is far more graphic than this book, you are delusional. So to say that it's pornographic material, that's a stretch. That is an extreme stretch. I think we need to stop pretending that the schools are out to indoctrinate our kids because that is not the group of people indoctrinating. It's trying to inspire them. So, I guess if we're talking about safe conversations, I guess my question to you, Dr. Kuang is over your your tenure, this school committee or previous, how many of members have come

180to you to ask questions, to clarify, to bring back to a constituent >> like in general? >> Yeah. I mean, you could say four if it was four. You could say lots if it was more than you could count. my five years >> that you're saying you guys school committ bodies prior to us >> that have brought to my attention to look into. >> Yes. For you to go back and give information so we can go back and tell people the answers that they're looking >> Yeah. I'd say lots. I've been I mean this is >> every one of those topics make it to a school committee agenda. >> These topics regardless of the wording were I think someone called him a dog whistle. I don't remember who it was. Oh, thank you. Um, regardless

181of how you phrase these, it it screams as a campaign stunt. This is >> My wife used those words last night, too. >> Well, that's cuz I've been saying it for a week and a half. Well, since Thursday, >> right? What? >> We're not you. >> Order. >> We need one. >> Can we have order? >> One speaker at a time. >> We did until everyone started deciding to talk over me. Oh. Member Shabil, you have 20 seconds left. First round. What >> how >> when you guys said you asked 10 schools, you had 10 schools that say they have this. How many schools did you go out to to ask that question to? >> We didn't ask. It was just a quick Google search that we did that we could actually find it on

182school's website. I think Dr. Gowski and and Miss Dumont actually did that in an hour. >> So to say 10 it I mean >> we confirmed 10 very quickly. It could be 50, but yes, >> we didn't reach out because we have other things to do. >> Correct. >> Cool. I'll finish later. >> Excuse me, may I? >> I just think we should do a vote to go past 9:00, please. >> Have a motion and a second to go past 9:00. >> So moved. Second. >> From member Daglio, second from the vice chair. All those in favor? >> I opposed. >> We're going past nine with the exception of member Maxwell. Uh, do we have anyone else who wants a first round discussion opportunity? Vice Chair, >> so I wasn't going to say much, but

183um the one thing that keeps coming to mind is is the last point that member Shabilia made is that um when Alicia was here giving us our um our our >> training, >> whatever it's called, the >> training. Thank you. Um, you know, she said, "As school committee members, it's our job to take constituent calls and then it's our job to refer them to the district to get the answers to show them the appropriate um process, etc. So, one complaint or one email from a constituent warranted definitely an email to the superintendent to find out what the process was and to get that information back to that parent so the parent can go through the process. At no time should that have made it to an agenda item. And so, to me, this agenda item

184shouldn't have ever even made it on to our time because it's one person who had a concern. You get them the information that they need. You point them to the person that they need to talk to and that's the end of it. That's what our job is. Our job is not to bring every single issue that a parent brings up to the school committee floor to debate. And so I'm not going to discuss whether or not this book should be in the curriculum or not. I'm going to discuss that the process of what our job is was horribly failed in this case. Thank you, >> member Donovan. >> Yeah, I I Okay, so I don't even know what we're talking about anymore. Um, so here are my thoughts. I I want to make sure the

185process when a parent is uncomfortable and that seems to be the theme of tonight discomfort. Um, so because it's been a while, parents are given the syllabus and in this case, if I'm right, they parents of students in this class, which was a jointly taught class, were expected to sign off on this. Okay? and and we don't need the details about whether or not the people who are most impacted by this did that it was discussed at open house. Okay. And I don't know how many kids were involved, but students who felt uncomfortable were had the their and their families had the choice to leave the class, come here, read a different book. I don't know how did that work. >> The families were offered the opportunity for an alternative assignment. So we have um

186a platform called egenuity. Yeah. which we're certain is tied to grade 10 standards. So, Miss Dumont is able to manipulate a unit within Egeneuity for grade 10 um to mimic the hours and standards that would be covered in the classroom. So, those students were offered the opportunity to come and work on that here in the media center. Um and our media center specialist at the high school is a former AP English teacher and is able to support them in that. Um and both uh families were were pleased with the alternative. So um >> and how do you know they were pleased? They said that >> I I spoke I spoke with one um mother directly on the phone. The other called back when I had left and Mr. Caret and Miss uh Dumont spoke with

187her. >> Okay. >> And that's typical um over the past 20 years or more I've been working here. When families do bring up a concern, they usually talk to the teacher department chair about that and they're offered usually the choice to stay in the class and work on something else or if the student prefers to leave to go to a different setting to do so. >> Okay. >> And at the when this book is the class is done, the students will return >> and they'll get graded. >> Yes. Is this something that, and I haven't had a minute to really look at that, are we required by law to provide that option? >> I don't believe that we are, but it has been past practice that we've always done that. Even last year, um, there

188are a couple students in the grammar schools where families raised some Yeah. religious rooted concerns and we made those adjustments for them. >> Yeah. Okay. And I can speak in my own experiences where for very different reasons I've had numerous people when I taught 8th grade or I was a principal where families wanted to opt their children out of reading the diary of Anne Frank for very like crazy reasons. Um well I appreciate the efforts of the teachers and the staff here to provide education. um when students feel uncomfortable. Um I just worry when and and I know we need to respect parents' roles in their child's education and I I'm very impressed that all these people showed up. I'm embarrassed by our frankly by some of our responses like no offense. Well, yeah, a

189little bit of offense taking umbrage and when people respond when you know I people have their opinions and we put ourselves in this position. So, we got to take the heat one way or the other whether or not it was communicated in in a way that was most appropriate because I looked at Facebook and that was a horror show and I'm not looking at Facebook anymore and we all should take an oath to never look at Facebook again. um people have have the right to get mad at us and walk out and laugh or whatever, you know, because we put ourselves in this position. So, I don't know if we're really serving as the best role models for our students right now. Um as to questioning the book, I think this went from zero to

190100. It is one of the best books I've read in my life. I challenge us all to participate and um sit with Miss McCloud because it's a fabulous book that we all should read and shame on us if we haven't read it before this discussion. Oh, darn it. One, just one thing. One thing. What I'm worried about is that we are letting our kids we are letting ourselves feel uncomfortable and think that's a bad thing. But education isn't supposed to make us feel uncomfortable. The best learning happens when we're in a state of not feeling our best. Um, and we're not talking I I just think the minute we even think about removing a student from a class that has really skilled teachers picking the books, guiding the instruction, I think we're narrowing the world

191for our students. Um, and I I I've talked too much, but I think we all need to pull up a big boy and girl pants and acknowledge that people came here tonight with the best of intentions two weeks before elections and um I just hope we can move on right now. I don't even know what we're addressing. >> We'll have a second round, a second organized round. We'll hear from we'll go around hear from member Daglio. So, just to go off the last time because again, I had no intention to ban a book, especially if I just read one little section of it, which I might felt uncomfortable, but before you do anything, you should read the book, which I will read the book, but I'm not I don't plan on banning any literature from

192our book uh from our libraries or classrooms or unless It's It's beyond educational like I don't know what that means. But if it's but like I'm not banning this book from what people have told me. When I am saying though and again this could have been easily dealt with prior maybe. I don't I don't know. I just got an email and then next thing you know it's on the agenda item. What I am saying though, I don't like the fact that it was spread through Facebook that it was going to be banned because none of these people would have been here if until like especially the Neans Library. They wouldn't have been here if they didn't hear like especially Mayor Dagler that was telling me right when I walked in. I said, "May uh Dennis,

193what are you doing here?" He goes, "Oh, you're banning books." No, I'm not. He goes, "That's what I heard." Okay, that to me is the problem. And whoever is saying that is that's wrong as a body. If people are saying this as a body saying, "Oh, they're planning on banning books." Well, that's wrong. That's a disservice to the community because that's not true. I never said I was banning books. All right? So for whoever is saying that, I think you should stop because you're causing people to feel a certain way, too. That's what I'm also saying. I'm You're absolutely right. I don't know what we're discussing right now, but someone is saying we're banning books, and that's not true because I will not ban a book. I I I want that very clear to the

194public, to the staff over there that's been watching and the parents back there. I have no intentions of banning a book. >> I never said >> okay. I'm not saying you you but I'm saying there are people saying that they're banning this book. I have no intentions of banning the book. >> Okay. >> So, we do need to maintain decorum in the room and we're not having the back and forth. Member Maxwell, second round. >> Um, just a yes or no. Is there sexual content in this book? >> Yes. State law, Massachusetts General Law, Chapter 71, 32A, requires schools to notify parents, guardians, and give them the right to exempt opt out their child from lessons, courses, and other instructional programs that primarily involve human sexual education or human sexuality issues. The parent notification and

195opt- out law reads in part as follows. Every city, town, regional school district or vocational school district implementing or maintaining curriculum which primarily involves human sexual education or human sexuality issues shall adopt a policy ensuring parental guardian notification. Such policy shall afford parents or guardians the f flexibility to exempt their child from any portion of said curriculum through written notification to the school principal. No child so exempted shall be penalized by reason of exemption. The law requires the school committee adopt this policy and send it to each principal in the district by September 1st. Students were not offered to leave this class before they started reading this book. They were not students were not offered an alternative until after the parent brought it concerns which you stated was weeks later. So, this student who was

196one of however many fine had an issue regarding religious beliefs. Wasn't even the masturbation that really threw her over the edge. It was that you were mocking her beliefs. That's a problem. The problem isn't that this book is being read by classrooms. It's not that it's being read by teenagers. The problem is that it was read by an adult to minor children about a minor child masturbating. That's a problem. I don't know why no one else sees that as a problem because if someone was reading your child a book that included sexual material, you would find it offensive and you would >> you would find it offensive and you would be upset. You would. Right. My my my my purpose in having this conversation was never to offend anybody. It was never to ban a

197book. It was never to say it is right or it is wrong. My concern with bringing it forward was that everyone wants to quote Massachusetts general law. Massachusetts general law says that we are supposed to send out an opt out >> for sexual content >> which I would then again refer you to page two that clearly states that what we are talking about >> this right does not extend to portions of curriculum where these topics are incidental or collateral section to the main instructional content >> section A does say so you can take your section five and you can paint the picture that we're not breaking the law, but look into 32A before you say we're not. >> That's all. >> I I think if I may, um 32A the the the word that we're

198glazing over there is primarily concerning curriculum that primarily involves human sexual education or human sexuality issues. and this text does not primarily do that. However, to get to your point about parent comfortability with text and I think you read that excerpt from the English department procedures about if there's a parent that feels uncomfortable with some potentially controversial issues, we encourage them to reach out to teachers and that is when alternatives are provided. So I think we are providing alternatives when when parents inquire and after a discussion with teachers because a lot of that discussion is are we talking a paragraph a line is it a a thematic element okay your children being read to about a sexual you're you're okay with someone reading to your child about masturbating. Oh, I I wasn't finished actually what

199I was saying. >> But I wasn't finished. My time hasn't surpassed. I asked a yes or no question. >> You're asking a questions because >> I got my answer. I got it. I got the yes that I wanted to get. >> Right. >> Well, you only allow the superintendent a yes or no answer. >> Correct. >> And so >> so it didn't we call that an either or a fallacy because you didn't allow her to qualify. >> Okay. >> And talk about the word primarily. So, so you would be okay with your child being read a book about masturbation? >> It's not about masturbation. >> Doesn't matter. One chapter, one page of this book referred to a 14-year-old child masturbating. You would be okay with an >> I don't have an issue with the book.

200Is that what you're asking me? >> I'm asking if you have an issue with adults reading to your child about masturbation. >> That's not interesting. >> You're not asking that question. Say that again. >> What did you I just missed what you just said. >> Doesn't matter. Conversation's over. My time elapsed. >> Does anybody else wish to speak? Member will >> around the table. >> No. Member Shabil. Yes. >> Um I more than most enjoy the um Sunday morning quarterback attorneys. Even as an attorney, I would never venture into the lane of someone who does municipal and education law the same way you would never go to your pediatrician for a broken ankle to have a bone reset or brain surgery or a proctologologist. We have an opinion from our attorney. All of the words

201in the statute matter. Every single one of them. And the way laws work is if you read down them, they have qualifying elements. This book is not primarily about masturbation. It's not primarily about God. I I I did find it a little funny that given our topics for agenda tonight, it was stated that we're causing people to feel a certain way, but now we only feel that way because religion and sex were brought into the equation. But we we need to evaluate the whole rule. Actually, what we need to evaluate is the opinion from our attorney, who I can only imagine what we paid for this packet for him to restate things that they've already told us. Um, quickly, just looking at this syllabus, there are six books plus a whole bunch of short story

202narratives, poetry speeches. Dr. Gopsy, how many English classes approximately are there at the high school? Give me a ballpark. >> Um, there are five uh teachers per grade level primarily. Each of those four or five teachers have five sections of English. >> So over a hundred. >> Cool. So let's say there are six books in each one of those classes. That's approximately 600 books. Now, we're expecting teachers to send 600 opt outs for any book that may be slightly or even have one reference to something that could be considered risque. And now, William Shakespeare is on this list. And I'll admit, I haven't read A Midsummer's Nightdream, but in high school, I did read other Shakespeare books because they made us. And his work is wild. Mhm. >> They did a lot of strange things

203in those novels. At what point are we already are we overt taxing our already overt taxed teachers by saying you need to now prepare an inordinate am number of subsequent lessons because somebody's feelings may be hurt over this book. And I I I do overall find it comical that this has become an argument about making people feel heard and safe and and then we're going into our next conversation. On a side note, I do want to point out and give kudos to Miss Harris and Miss Ferguson. I don't know if this AI language is in all of our agendas, I mean syllabus, but that's I I like their forethought and I just want to say something positive in the mix because I feel like as a district, we're not in the AI area yet. But

204I just we can't cater to everyone individually. That's not how any of this works. Everybody in this room knows our teachers are already stretched too thin. Now they have to send home a hundred different questionnaires to make sure you're okay with your kid reading a book that let's be real 90% of parents are not going to read anyways. They're going to Google it and make an opinion based off of somebody else. That's why we have teachers because they're smarter than us and they're working on making us smarter, too. I think it's time maybe we trust them. Thank you, >> member Willlette. >> Again, gaslighting 101. uh feelings, comfort zone, um ban, um racism, homophobia, uh transphobia, uh whatever someone wanted to bring to the equation. None of the people that brought the concern, which was

205the the crux of the situation, was a parents bill of rights and a a parental opt out. And that was the crux of the situation because of someone's religious objection, moral objection. They had a quick scan of the book and I looked at it very quickly myself. There are multiple sexual references in this book just like gender queer has multiple sexual pornographic references in it. And I have an empathy for the main protagonist in that book. I sympathize with that individual. That person found their identity in their 20s. It's a it's it's a book that will like awake your emotions. Would I have that read to 10 year olds? Absolutely not. And that's on the list of banned books. I think we need to have common sense of you give a parental opt out. You

206respect the small minority of people that might want to just because of religious or moral objections on that little sliver of human sexuality. Not because we're uncomfortable, not because we want to have a ban. Right? And if you look at any of my meetings, any of my speeches, I said my kids participate uh in sex education. I don't necessarily have a problem with that type of material, but you better believe as an elected official, I will be advocating for the majority opinion and the minority opinion. And in this country, both matter because in societies where you have force indoctrination, that's a communist socialist nation that takes away your right. And I read about that in 1984. Comfort. I never said comfort. Feelings. I never said feelings and I never said ban. My original premise and

207member Maxwell has every right to bring it up and I think other members of this committee indicated that the administration dropped the ball on this issue again. All right, that's the issue not about like uh burning books. That is it was never into the equation. And it was it was funny how I was criticized merely for asking for decorum where I listened to everybody's speech. I didn't herang anybody. I didn't interrupt anybody. I didn't talk over anybody. And I didn't laugh over anybody. But somehow I'm criticized for asking merely for decorum for the same standards that I applied to the opposition that spoke this evening. And somehow that's put back on to my plate that I'm against freedom of speech. And it's amazing what I'm listening to tonight. It's I would actually have a course

208on this in psychology. Thank you. >> Second round. Member Ke. Um, if parents bill of rights or parents opt out were on the agenda, I would have no issue and I would be happy to have that conversation with you. But that's not what's on the agenda. The agenda is the book, right? And so, so let's put those items on the agenda and have a conversation about that. I am all for that. Thank you. Member Donovan, >> I'm going to say it again. I'm not sure what we're doing here right now. Um, so may I suggest, mayor, if you have something to say, now is the time and we move on. Uh, oh, but from my questioning, it sounds like to me the prop everyone got what they needed in the end. Those parents were heard.

209They had the option to have their children in another location. Other students were able to read this terrific book. And while we're all focused on those three or four paragraphs, I really wish you'd read it because this is a story about hope and redemption and relationships over race and about a boy who walked 22 miles to school because he knew he'd get a better education somewhere else. And what breaks my heart is we're so focused on this little piece, which I get could be uncomfortable, we're not seeing the big redemptive picture. And if someone could tell me what we're really talking about right now and what we're accomplishing, that would be awesome. But there you go. >> So, every speaker has had two rounds. I will briefly take my first. From what I've heard tonight,

210it's very clear that you don't want to ban books. You don't want to ban books. You don't want to ban books. You don't want to ban books. You don't want to ban books. And you don't want to ban books. But I need to share my own thoughts about the situation because this did come up as a concern uh from member Maxwell via that email and I think it is a relevant discussion and I say this respectfully. I did some digging into this book. I haven't read the book. I look forward to taking part in Christa's uh book club discussion. Um, but what I did find in terms of my own research is that this book has been banned in many different districts across the United States. That is a fact. It has been banned in

211many districts. And this is what I want to state, not to make a political point, but just to add some context to my feelings here. I will guarantee that in each and every one of those instances in which the book was banned, the journey toward banning the book in, you name it, XYZ district in the country began with a challenge to the book. That's a logical fact. if you follow, you know, okay, how do you get to banning a book? It begins with an initial conversation, an initial discussion, an initial challenge. And so I want to share this not necessarily uh solely in this context, but in the broader context of discussing books in general. I want to share a quote from the late President Ronald Reagan. He said, this is from a 1988 document.

212Anyone who doubts the power or permanence of books need only look today at countries around the world where the mere composition, printing, binding, and distribution of a book is a prosecutable act of defiance against the state. For the printed word is an implacable enemy of tyranny. Whether that tyranny comes in the form of official censorship by government or fashionable neglect by academia. In every society, the goals of education must include such a wide experience of books that intellectual int independence and critical thinking become the natural assets of each citizen. Those are the words of the late President Ronald Reagan. And somebody mentioned earlier tonight uh in uh speaking during public participation, and I believe this is true, it is 2025. It is not 1625. Again, I'm not speaking necessarily directly to this situation, but this

213broader conversation that we're having in the country. And in a freethinking society, we don't censor or ban books. We talk to each other. We trust our educators. And we teach our kids how to think, not what to think. Every parent deserves to know what their child reads. And students should have access to alternative assignments when necessary, as they currently do, as we saw in this case they did. But every student also deserves access to ideas and information. I'm going to end with this. We do not live in Iran. We do not live in North Korea. We don't censor or ban books in the United States. And again, I know that people at this table do not want to do that. But there are folks in this country who do and it begins with a challenge

214and I want us to remain cognizant of that and to be aware of that going forward and I think we've said quite enough about this tonight but again I think this is a discussion worth having. Next on the agenda we have the request from member Maxwell. This is relative to the bathroom situation. >> You can feel free to begin this. Okay. Um, after a recent email and discussion with parents, I wanted to start a constructive conversation about how we can make sure all students feel safe, respected, and comfortable when it comes to bathroom access. I understand and know that this is a sensitive topic, but I think we can and should find solutions that respect everyone's privacy and comfort. My questions to that, what options currently exist in each school? How many genderneutral bathrooms are

215there per school, per floor? Are students and families aware that they can request to use um these single user private restrooms if they're uncomfortable? That's not in the handbook, so I don't know if we couldn't add it to the handbook. How are we handling concerns about bathroom access? Did your administrator record this incident to you and your team? How many st single stall bathrooms are available during the day? Who has access? Are the doors locked? And are these bathrooms that are single stall staff bathrooms as well? Um, I think those were really my only questions when it came to bathroom use. It wasn't to change a law. It wasn't to change a policy. It wasn't to even have a discussion about transgender students. It really was just about access. And I understand that, you know,

216when the when the parent asked about using a separate bathroom, they were given the answer, you know, to use a genderneutral bathroom. I'm not sure why, but the words genderneutral apparently don't sit well with people. So maybe we can call those bathrooms public bathrooms and leave it at that. so that they're not genderneutral and that we don't have to we don't have to limit it to genderneutral bathrooms. This is a bathroom that is open to all students at any time of the day and they're not going to get penalized for going to that bathroom because I know that at the Timn I only know of two bathrooms that are unlocked that are single stall bathrooms and those are near the cafeteria. So, if my child who's on the third floor on the opposite end of

217the building wants to use those private bathrooms, he now leaves class, goes to the bathroom, and by the time he returns to class, it's 15 or 20 minutes later because he had to walk across the whole school. So, my question is is how many genderneutral bathrooms are in each school? Where are they? Do students know that they have access to them and can use them? because I've asked a few students and they don't know that they can use these. Um, and really that was the only purpose to this conversation. It was not to shame anybody. It was not to make anybody feel uncomfortable or awkward or I don't I don't know. I wish this many parents would show up all of the time to have an opinion on something. But my opinion was not to

218make anyone feel uncomfortable. Everything I do is to make sure that all kids feel included and accepted and supported. That was the only intent of this conversation. It was not to offend anyone. And I want to make that very clear. It was not my intent. I would just like those questions answered. And that's really the purpose of this conversation. I I that was about 20 questions, so I'll take those. But that is absolutely not what your email said and what you wanted on the agenda tonight. I just want to be the email that you read out loud >> did not ask those questions or else I would have had those answers for you. >> Okay. It was very specific to the concerns about the genderneutral and the girls feeling uncomfortable in the bathroom with >>

219biological boys because there was an original email that went out to us that said that there was a boy in the girls' bathroom and you had changed that to we cannot discriminate based off of gender identity. That wasn't my question. My I thought when the parent concern was brought to me that there was a boy in the girl's bathroom. That was it. The other questions that I did read in the email were not answered. Had you answered those, I would have followed up with these questions. You did not. So, my questions were relative to the use of bathrooms. And yes, the topic transgender was associated with that. However, it was not to isolate transgender students. And that's what it's been made into. Do we have discussion? Mr. Chairman, >> member Wlette, >> just as a

220point of information and a point of clarification, we had a uh constituent here tonight that made reference to myself and member Maxwell concerning serious allegations of sexual assault that may be occurring within our school system. No, that Yeah, that was a >> I immediately, just for the record, >> emailed the superintendent and asked her to immediately reach out to the constituent. So, I need confirmation this evening that that was accomplished. >> Done. >> Okay. Did you invoke myself as I made reference to you to reach out to the constituent or you just reached out to the constituent? I reached out to her to ask I two things in her email and that was one of them. >> Okay. >> She and I had a conversation. >> And what was the timeline of that? >> Do

221you know offhand? >> I emailed her this morning. first thing this morning >> because I take personal exception to any constituent accusing me of neglecting serious ethical and criminal violations that allegedly could be occurring within this school system. I take personal exception to that. That does not help a healthy conversation. So whether or not she wants to apologize for that, I really don't care. But for the record, there's never been a time that I received an email or a phone call that I did not make reference to the mayor at the time or the superintendent at the time of serious criminal allegations. And I hope that constituent comes forward to the Mthoan police, to the superintendent, and to the Title 9 coordinator. I hope that's accomplished. Thank you. Any other discussion? If not, we'll move

222on to the next topic on the agenda, which is uh member will let the discussion regarding uh the P flag at our schools. >> Um I I think this is pretty simple. We we have a federal law that where you have the American flag affixed at federal buildings underneath at the same time all the time. You have the P MIA flag. I think to honor our veterans in Mthuan and as a recognition of their sacrifice and service to this country, we should adopt that federal law to have the American flag and underneath it would be the P MIA flag. So that would be uh my policy. I've talked to the mayor about it. I believe he's on board with it. Um so I just want to toss that out. We already have a federal law.

223I think we would do is just adopt that uh as a sense of the committee or as a policy. Um that I just wanted to toss that out for the membership. So we could do from a procedural standpoint is it is on the agenda for possible approval of a request along those lines. So what we could do is we could entertain a motion to uh say proceed with uh you know a plan that would involve displaying the P flag at our schools and have a second and discussion from there and take a vote on that. >> Do we have a motion on the floor? >> I motion it. >> Do we have a second? We have a second from member Maxwell. >> Discussion. >> We'll open it up for discussion. Member Daglio. Oh, no. I

224So, what I'm I I'm sorry. I just had um so I we passed the policy uh I added uh the federal flag code to me public schools a couple of years ago. Um I don't know if that falls in line with the P one. Um but I just didn't but I'm happy to approve this as well. But I know we have we we regulated everything under the federal flag code a couple of years ago. So I just wanted to know if this is the same law or is it a different law. >> So >> federal code I could just through the chair. This is a point of information. It was a few years ago that it was passed on a bipartisan basis. Um, so whether or not it was implemented in the in the past,

225I think it's wasn't the case because if you go to our schools, you have the American flag. We're not affixing the P MIA flag. So all I'm doing is reaffirming if you did that in the past, kudos to you. I think we should do it in recognition of Veterans Day. >> Absolutely agree. I just to make it official. I totally agree with that. Member Shabil, the member Maxwell. >> I I don't oppose it. I just I question if it's something we should be doing or if the city council should be doing. I just it seems like something that would be a citywide effort more than a school effort. So, this is regarding school buildings. I I n if now my memor is not all that good here, but I'm 99% sure we have the P

226flag flying in front of city hall. >> 99%. >> I can't even picture it in my mind at this point. >> This is something that would is disregarding member Wlette's request relative to the school. >> Brings us into uh I don't know if compliance is the right word, but if it puts us on par with what the city is doing, yes. Otherwise, I would recommend that the city council, this would be an issue for them to put the whole city on the same page. >> And I think honestly, Mr. Chair, I think it's just a sense of the committee. Whatever the vehicle is, I want to have the PM MA flag is if we can expedite it through the city council and I know uh member Dagalio may have mentioned in the past and I'm

227not disputing that. I wanted to bring it up again because we don't have it. So whatever if the mayor wants to uh go through the vehicle of the city council and have it expedited um I don't have a problem with that. I you know I don't take ownership of it. It just was an idea I had based on the federal law that I think we should adopt for our schools. >> It's a beautiful idea and on the city side I I would just go ahead and raise the flag at any municipal building. But in the context of the schools I understand the thinking here. We'll hear from member Maxwell and then the vice chair. >> Um I this may seem like a silly question. I was just going to ask who is responsible for putting

228in the pole and who would be paying for the um whole flag installation. Would it come out of the school budget or would it come out of the city budget? >> So in certain cases you'll have flags flying on the same pole. The American flag flies at the top and then along these lines it could be Yeah. another way. >> Yep. Oh, >> can I just make a quick comment? I'm sorry. Just because I want everybody to know, we do not have individual flag poles in front of Branch Street. The American flag flies at the bottom of our driveway and that is not owned by the school. That American flag is owned by Brooks Properties. So if we do this then I don't have control over that flag. So either Branch Street is left out

229of this this conversation or I do have to add flag pole somewhere in front of that building. I just want people to understand that flag is not ours. I I I I don't want to make an assumption, but I think in this context, member Wlette's thinking is that uh you know, we have the Veterans Day uh holiday coming up in the next month or so, and so we could make this work with the existing pole infrastructure that we have now. Yeah. >> Any other discussion? >> So, I just wanted to say um so I agree that it should be a citywide thing. However, um the school committee does have jurisdiction over the school buildings and the so I think it does fall under us to to do this and I think it's certainly very worthwhile.

230>> Yeah. Agreed. Any other discussion? >> If not, all those in favor? >> I opposed. The eyes have it. So, uh that will proceed. Uh at this point, we're going to move on to actually quick time check. Martha, where are we at in terms of uh time? >> 21 minutes. >> We have 22 minutes. So, what we'll do is we'll take it section by section. We'll take a look at where we're at in terms of time. So, we're going to go through now next on the agenda is the approval of minutes. Uh we need a motion and a second to approve the minutes of September 8th, 2025. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Motion from member Daglio. Second from member Donovan. Discussion. >> All those in favor? >> Opposed? The eyes have it. Next, we're

231on to the approval of minutes from September 16, 2025. We need a motion and a second. >> Second >> motion from membershelia. Second from the vice chair. Discussion. >> All those in favor? >> I opposed. The eyes have it. >> Next, we have approval of the minutes from September 17, 2025. We need a motion in a second. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Shelia with the motion. The vice chair with the second. Discussion will vote. All those in favor say I. I >> opposed. The eyes have it. Next, uh we have two um separate um minute approvals for the date of September 24th. There were two meetings that day. So, uh this is regarding the uh first meeting. This I believe was the MASC uh tutorial. We need a motion and a second. >> So

232moved. >> Second. >> Motion for membershelia. Second from the vice chair. Discussion. >> All those in favor? >> I the eyes have it. Second meeting on September 24th. We need a motion and a second to approve the minutes. >> So moved. Second. >> Motion from member Daglio. Second from the vice chair. Discussion. >> All those in favor? >> I >> opposed. You guys have it. Uh next we have approval of the minutes from September 30th, 2025. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Motion from member Daglio, seconds from the vice chair. Discussion. >> All those in favor? >> I opposed. The eyes have it. >> We need a motion lastly to approve the minutes of October 8, 2025. So moved. >> Second. >> Motion from member Daglio, second from the vice chair. Discussion. >> So discussion

233will vote. All those in favor? I >> opposed. The eyes have it. Uh next we're on to staff reports. We'll get really cognizant of time here just so we don't have any issues. Um we'll begin with the health and safety task force uh and other updates regarding all things maintenance and custodial efforts. Um, any questions regarding the report? Member Maxwell, >> I just have a question regarding the um issue with the heat or not heat. I don't I don't know what the issue was. I just know it was really hot in one of the classrooms at the marsh. Um, and my question was just to ask um, not in a rude I don't mean it in a rude way, but why did it take so long to fix the issue if we have an onstaff

234HVAC guy in house? >> Um, I think the issue you're talking about was a a programming issue. Um, they had just switched over to heat and at night it it was programmed wrong. At night it went to full blast. Um, in the morning they did shut it off, but it takes a while to cool down. Um, I did double check again today. I know I had this conversation with with Ken um to make sure that it was fine today and the teacher reported that it's much better today. So, and I did ask Mr. Stella to be over at the school this morning to double check on all of that. So, yeah, hopefully we'll start to be we'll see still see some little bubbles with the the heat being turned back on, but um as over

235the winter some of the dampers might be stuck, things like that, but um hopefully we we're in a better place now. >> Will that >> I just want to I want to commend the teacher uh for forthrightly reaching out to us. I appreciate uh Ian as always responding. I know there's going to be followup on it. It was it was a serious situation. I think it glow was correct in them monitoring the situation. The only thing else I want to say is I know there's been visits of the schools. Those full inspection reports um are they published yet? You know, we had another round of inspection reports. Has that been done yet? >> I'll make sure that's uh posted. Another thing, too, is we just started service with Braymond, >> the new pest management firm.

236So, uh, as they begin to put together their own reports, those will all be available as well. >> And then also too, I think in, uh, specifically to Tenny Grammar School because there was a spike. >> Um, not to criticize anybody at the school because we have to focus on the just resolving the situation. Can we have like a follow-up report specifically on that school because of the spike? >> Absolutely. >> All right. Thank you, >> Member Dunovan. Just very quickly, uh, under maintenance, um, could you give us an update about the hiring of folks to replace Mr. um, >> um, >> I just his Stella, his name just went out >> for the last two and a half weeks, myself, Mr. Stellar, and one of the principles um, interviewed many, many, many people, myself,

237and the superintendent over the last two weeks has started second rounds of interviews. Uh we're getting close to a decision on both of those and hope to have them both started by the middle of November. So they can have a couple weeks with Mr. Stella before um he goes on to retirement. He has said that he'll still be available to consult if need be um which he has a lot of has a lot of information up there in that head. So uh we'll probably need him in certain areas. Um so which I appreciate. >> Thank you. Any other questions? If not, we'll move on to the student enrollment data report. Any questions from the committee? >> Quick question. >> Member Maxwell. >> Just a quick question. Um, on the on the enrollment data, it says

238that there were in August, September, and October 193, if I'm correct, ELLL students. Is that um primarily English? Like I'm trying to think of how how to ask this. Is that primarily students that don't speak English? >> That's what I understand. But that but that's they're just new to the district this year and they're primarily a different language. Um like their primary language is a different language. they they qualify for English language services. So, it's a range. So, depending on where they fall, they're newcomers and know no English. That's a level one. Or they might know some English, but they still qualify for English language services, direct services from staff. >> Okay, that was it. That answered my question. Thank you. >> Any other questions? All right, we'll move on to the report from the

239assistant superintendent of student services. Any questions, comments? All right, we'll move on to the HR report. Questions, comments? >> So, a little different. The staff reports a little different, but uh what Colleen did this time is just add in the column if it's still open, it says vacant. That means it's not filled by a contracted person or an actual MFUL public school staff. Um so, the rest do say contract. So, you know, those positions are being filled right now. and serviced by contracted staff. Um, and then there's also on the far right hand column, she's just identifying for all of you whether it's a program assistant, uh, administrator or a teacher, unit A, B, or C. >> So, you know, >> question. uh for the vacant positions especially that of the special ed are we

240able to use constellations to backfill those or is that >> yeah we're using uh constellations has been incredibly helpful for us it just like we experienced last year they're running out of people to give us right so to to work with us so they have been absolutely wonderful partners uh and they're helping us even further right now in sort of a last minute pinch and allowing us to provide some staff. They're providing some staff for us. So, yes, they are, but they are they just don't have the staff either. Just the sheer numbers that we're looking for and the qualifications obviously. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, >> vice chair. >> Um on the um MHS section, there are two lines that are blank. Um can you tell me where those questions are. Yeah.

241No, I can't, but I will I will find out. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Other comments, questions? >> I'm just going to guess. We're going to throw it out and guess. No, I'll have her fill that out and make sure it's filled out. >> Yep. >> Next, we have the report regarding out of school suspensions and other disciplinary matters. member Maxwell, >> is there a way we can break this report up into um incident um action and um how it was handled or solved. Is there a way to just break it down into uh more just more information behind the action? >> No, we can inquire. >> Okay. Yeah, it's like I said, this is a or like we did before, this is a report that's pulled directly from Infinite Campus. So it just takes some

242talking with Mr. Circ one seeing what we can pull automatically or else that's going to be an incredibly tedious human task. So >> do you have >> Could you say could you say a little more about what you're looking for so we can see if it's possible? >> Um I honestly I had notes um and I I'm not sure I brought them. >> Just email if you could just email the two of us because we're the ones who would talk to Matt. >> Perfect. Thank you. member Donovan >> and um the timony is not represented on the page incidents leading to out of school suspensions. Is that because they had a really good month or beginning of the school year? Because that would be awesome. >> I will double check. >> Okay. >> Any other

243questions or comments? If not, uh quick time check. We've got 10 minutes to go. Uh we do have several other uh significant items on the agenda including for instance the acceptance of the superintendent's letter of recommen resignation. There isn't any vote that we take. It's simply an acknowledgement of that. Beyond that uh there's other uh items that I think warrant uh significant discussion. And so uh you know I would imagine some of these things may be timesensitive. I understand the the uh to uh program assistance for the preschool. I'm thinking that for the rest of these items, given the issue that we have right now with time, we could potentially schedule a special meeting if it's timesensitive. Otherwise, are we uh able to punt uh any of these or all of them to the next

244agenda? >> I think the only one that I would ask is the program assistant one just because uh we would be looking to fill those contractually or not. uh the new students have arrived. >> So >> we can vote on that and then everything else can go right over to the next agenda. >> So I I would motion that we move up >> um a a >> I let me recommend this. I I would suggest we've already accepted the agenda and took a formal vote on that. I would simply suggest that we uh perhaps a motion to um I guess punt the rest of these items to the next agenda and take up next this item that is timesensitive that we need to tackle tonight with the limited time we have. >> So moved. Second.

245>> Okay. So we have the motion from member, the second from member Daglio uh to do that. All those in favor? >> I >> opposed. Okay. The eyes have it. So what we will do is we will consider the rest of the items punted. Given our time constraint tonight, we will proceed with the approval of the two one to one program assistance for the preschool. Do we have a motion and a second to do so? >> So moved. >> Motion from member Shibelia. The second is from the vice chair. Discussion. Again for anyone watching this is timesensitive and appropriate to take up now. >> Discussion. Member Wlette, I >> I think it's self-explanatory. It needs to be done and I think it's circuit breaker funded. So I I have no problem with it. >> Funded

246via the circuit breaker. That's right. >> Any other discussion? >> If not, all those in favor? >> I opposed. The ice have it. And so the time-sensitive matter has been addressed. The rest of the items will be uh on the next agenda. With that, I would recommend a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Motion from member Daglio. Second from member Donovan. All those in favor? >> I >> opposed. The eyes have it. We are adjourned. >> Good night, McDan. [Music]