001All right. Thank you everyone for your patience. I'll call to order the meeting of special school committee meeting of April 15th, 2025 at 5:30 p.m. This meeting is taking place in person at room 227 at 29 Highland Avenue. You can also join via Zoom using the link in the meeting agenda. I'll call this meeting to order. Uh we have a a brief agenda for this evening. Our first item is approval of a field trip for Salem High School students who are attending a learning excursion innovation schools learn. Motion to approve. I'll second. Motion made by member Cornell, seconded by member Miranda. All in favor? Any opposed? Sorry. Unanimous. The matter carries. Uh when member Cruz arrives, we have another uh item. Apologies. Uh, I would just ask for a roll call on that last one.
002Member Cruz. Roll call vote. Member Cruz, yes. Member Hoffman, yes. Member Cornell, yes. Member Miranda, yes. Member Manning, yep. And myself, yes. Matter carries again. Uh, our next item is discussion of the proposed FY26 budget. after hearing some public comment from last night. I appreciate the feedback from members of the public who were present and who submitted written comment um to the committee and this evening's meeting is an opportunity for us to ask some follow-up questions to the district and um and reflect on some of those feedback that we did hear. I'll turn it over to Dr. Zurich who I think has a brief presentation. We have a brief presentation. It's a it's we're I'm sharing it with uh my other colleagues here. Um, so first of all, I want to thank Yeah. Okay. Um,
003I do want to thank people for their commentary uh last night and we've received a lot of feedback via the SPS budget email and uh I I just appreciate how engaged people are and have been around this very challenging budget season. So um grateful for the input. I do think there's a number of reflections that we want to share here tonight. I think we're still trying to formulate them after last night's hearing and I very much myself, Kate and Elizabeth want to hear from the school committee members tonight and then we'll have obviously have ample time to make adjustments based on what we hear tonight. I have again we have some of our own ideas based on input um that we've received. I have a meeting tomorrow for instance with elementary principles to talk a
004little bit about some of the things that were raised last night. Um and so we just you know I want people to know that this is we don't ex we never expect that this is just going to I pres we present and it's going to be baked without adjustments and so um I'm looking forward to hearing what the school committee has to say here tonight. We did want to share if Mark you can ceue it up. Uh we want we did want to share a couple reflections and clarifications um in response to some of the things we heard and and uh some you know to make sure we're as clear as possible as you all go into your discussions here tonight about the proposed budget. So if you want to go to the next slide,
005Mark. Um so I'm going to start. I I do want to just talk a little bit about the support for elementary schools. Um there the a couple of uh some of the feedback we received is about inequities in reading and math support across um elementary schools. I I sent this committee earlier a uh breakdown of the FTEEs for uh ELA support and math support in the schools for next year in the proposed budgets. I I do think there's some inequities that I want that we want to discuss further. I I'm not prepared to um to make those adjustments yet. I'm not sure it means adding an additional position to the budget, but it does it does mean uh potentially shifting where some of those resources are so that there's more equity across the schools. Uh
006in particular, Bates is of concern when you look at the size of the school um and what they have uh you know, especially around reading specialists versus uh what Carlton has for instance. I just want to call that out. Um, and Witchcraft already has more support uh for reading, which they should because they are the biggest elementary school, but Bates is not that far behind. So, I I do want to call out that that's something that um we uh want to have some more conversations about about that. Um, there were questions about the plan for family engagement facilitators, and I want to clarify that. I received some questions from committee members about that as well. Um, we will have a total in this budget of five family engagement facilitators. There will be one assigned each
007to Salem High School and Collins naturally as our biggest schools and then the other three would be split between the six elementary schools. Uh, the time allocation should be based on enrollment and need. Um, and Laura has had those conversations already with the thefts who are um expected to return next year. Um, we also do expect that they uh they would need to work in the parent information center as they do now. And obviously we're going to have to do some reviews of the job description and we'll work with the STU on what those will be because their roles will look slightly different if they're split between two schools. So I just wanted to clarify that people uh there were questions about how we would allocate their time for next year. That's the plan and
008certainly open to feedback from the committee here tonight. I think the other thing that struck me is also the um the um uh substitute coverage concerns AC at schools. Um and I do think that is a concern and that's something that I I that's one of the things I'm going to be talking about with the elementary principles. This is a concern for for me more so at the elementary level. Uh we do need to have a more robust substitute pool. Um and we are finding though that we we are able to recruit more substitutes now than we have before. Doesn't mean that it adequately covers the needs across the schools. But um I think we got to continue to double down around that. I think we have to provide some guidance for schools especially in
009elementary school because younger kids do need you know they do need to be um they they cannot just be left alone in big numbers. You do have to have coverage for them more so than in the middle and the high schools. But we do need to provide some more guidance for our schools. I think the issue of lunch support has come up like who's going to be supervising recess and um who's going to uh be supervising lunch periods. This came up in the union negotiations with STU2. We made some, you know, commitments around uh FTEEs or like the student to adult rat ratios. So that's also something that I uh needs to be look at looked at. And of course, we always we we do want to focus more on improving staff attendance and we've
010been working with our staff about improving attendance. Um we do still have challenges in certain roles and that when some somebody's out that obviously has impacts on the rest of the the school and the rest of the district or the rest of the school and and does pull on the limited resources that exist in schools. So that is something we do want to spend more time on. I I am going to have a conversation with the elementary principles to get a better sense of what they think they need moving forward and I can report back to the school committee about that. Next slide. U some unknowns. I do I'm still working with principal Burns on final high school staffing decisions trying to uh minimize the impact to any student facing positions. I think we've got
011some innovative ideas but I'm not ready yet to share those. It's not because I'm trying to be uh evasive. It's just because um I I'm very I want to be careful that if we make a decision that it doesn't have uh dramatic impacts on high school scheduling and staffing. Um I do think there's some unknowns around early education funding at the state level. I sent an email last week which I CCed our state uh rep or Mr. Cruz uh to the commissioner, not the commissioner, the secretary of education um as well as uh the both secretaries of um uh of uh K12 education and the secretary of early education where there is uh a substantial amount of funding designated for early education uh funding and programs which are which are are earmarked for some of
012the partner programs. Uh we know Salem is going to be a recipient, but uh we don't believe any of those dollars are right now scheduled to go to traditional school districts that run uh prek programs or preschool programs. We think they should. And so th that's a conversation I continue to want to engage in. Know the mayor will be supportive in those discussions as well as our representatives. That is still an unknown. If any of those dollars can be diverted to us, which they should be because we're running very robust prek and preschool programs, that will have an impact on this uh budget. Also, and Mr. Cruz can maybe ref talk a little bit more about this. There was a supplemental budget for FY25 from the um uh from the legislature that uh that has
013money earmarked or for circuit breaker increased dollars for special education reimbursement that if if we we're right now funded at 70%. If that moves towards 100% that will go a long way towards um us being able to prepay some of our bills for out of district placements and supports this year. And so that would also have an impact on our budget for next year. And so Mr. Cruz, perfect timing, is going to uh, you know, will is is certainly our eyes and ears around that and and is giving and is sharing information with us as, you know, this is this is um this is, you know, moving as we speak and so we're hopeful that that can also provide us with some relief. Um, I'll pass it all over to uh Kit Carboni who's got
014a additional comments to share around specialists, elementary specialists and um libraries. Great. Thank you. So last night uh we all heard some passionate testimonials about Phyllis Warren, the art teacher at the Horseman Lab School. Miss Warren is clearly a special educator and a beloved member of that school community. And I think what we heard last night um really represents the value and importance of having art, music, and PE teachers um in all of our schools. As a district, we want to affirm or reaffirm our shared belief that specials are an integral part of our school communities and that we are fully committed to ensuring that all children have access to art, music, and PE as a part of a well-rounded student experience and in or at a similar dosage as they experience today. From a
015practical standpoint, we also recognize um that our specialists play an important role in each school meeting the contractual minutes for prep time and common planning time for classroom teachers. And with the length of the school changing in several of our school elementary schools next year, the need to recalibrate um is essential. So, one of the primary reasons uh for taking a closer look in this area as we sought to balance the budget, I believe did come up last night as well, is that next year we'll have four elementary schools with fewer than 300 students um enrolled. And across these schools, the specialist staffing is uneven. Um the proposed, just to clarify, the proposed budget includes the following reductions and ads in the specialist area. The cuts include one PE teacher, a 0.5 music teacher, a
0160.5 art teacher, and civics, uh, which is, um, only exists at, uh, Witchcraft Heights Elementary School. And so that's a total of three FTEEs, um, on the cut side. Um, but we also did add two library digital media specialists in keeping with our strategic plan to revitalize our library spaces. So overall that equates to a reduction of one specialist FTE at the pre-k to five level. In the coming weeks we're fully committed to consulting with um specialists and working with our principles and union partners to make the scheduling adjustments that will ensure equitable access to specials across schools. This does mean that there will be some sharing of specialists, but we believe this can be minimized. And I think it's worth noting that um we already do have a couple of successful models in the
017district where teachers are shared across schools including in our special ed and ML departments and of course our instrument and band um teachers who travel across all schools. Um next slide. So I wanted to provide a little context too relative to the cons concern that was raised around students having access to checking out books where there is no um parah in the library. So at just to clarify at the Salem High School the librarian does not teach classes and so there is time throughout the day to support students with checking out books and reshelving throughout the day. at Collins Middle School and the elementary schools. Um, I just wanted to note that the library digital media classes include time for browsing and checking out books. That's part of sort of the lesson plan, if you
018will. Um, and we will work with principles. I actually spoke to two who are already in the process um of doing this of intentionally building in weekly time into the library schedule for grade level access and for recheduling. So for example um the librarians do not participate in DII which is the data informed meetings right so looking at the academic data after district common assessments or benchmark assessments are given so this is a perfect time to give back to the librarians um to address the the task of re uh shelving and being available to um grade levels throughout the week um to book checkouts. Um the other thing I wanted to note too is that we do have a couple of models. Um we want to expand access to the libraries to afterchool and so
019we have our 21st century programs. We have our our LEAP program here um at the middle school. We also have clubs at the middle school. And so we'll be you know working with principles to um think carefully about how the libraries can be included um during those spaces. I was at Bentley yesterday and you know um the kids um do have access to the library um after school and I understand that's not all students but it's just another way of expanding um access over to Elizabeth. Great. And I wanted to speak a little to the special education out of district tuition uh budget lines. There was a question raised about the size of the increase and it is uh it is significant. This is a major cost driver for our district and for many districts
020as the tuitions each year for these out of districts have increased steadily if not significantly. So the first point I wanted to make is that the tuitions for out of district placements are set by the Massachusetts Operational Services Division. So they set the tuitions and the increase each year uh for the 200 approved special education programs in Massachusetts. Uh and so while the number of students that we send out is lower than what we have historically done, thanks to our special ed uh educators creating programs to keep children in the district, we do continue to see increases in our tuition rates. So when I take a closer look at what the tuition will be in the coming year, although we are estimating a level number of children who need specialized and intensive outofd placements, we
021see that the average summer and school year tuition for students who go to private placements next year will be $171,000 a year. That is about a $9,000 increase over this year for each of those tuitions. In collaboratives, the summer and school year tuition bill will be about $94,000, which is a $20,000 increase over this year. Now, that includes both the school year tuition, the summer program, and whenever needed, a monitor or a one-to-one aid. So, we do see that those two average increases account for about $800,000 of the increase this year. The other $600,000 likely is due to the timing of placements. So, we estimate a full year of placements for the students that we know and that we have in our pipeline. But we know that every year students come in and students go
022out. And so the number and the amount of tuition that's paid can fluctuate in every any given year depending on how long a student is with us and how long they are enrolled in their placement. So, I hope that adds a little context to the um special education tuition line. One note that I would make here is that these numbers can change and it is partly due to when students come in, when they receive placement, and if they leave us. It's also, you know, dependent on the circuit breaker that we receive, which is a reimbursement for our special education services, including uh tuition and transportation. So there is uh the house did pass as the superintendent mentioned a supplemental budget the other day that would increase the amount of circuit breaker available for this year
023FY25 the year we're in. We are already planning to prepay our tuition for next year. We are allowed to do that and we have historically done that in the last few years. But if we receive more funds from circuit breaker this year, then we can prepay more, which could change the overall um amount that we will need to expend next year. So some of that is a little bit um could shift, I would say. Next slide, please. Uh the only other two updates I wanted to um call your attention to is there was a question raised yesterday about the playground RFP. There was a request for proposals posted um on the city's website to renovate the Bates early childhood playground. This this committee will remember this was part of the FY25 capital budget. The overall
024budget for this project, including construction, surfacing, materials, and play equipment is $500,000. So I don't believe that the uh contract has been awarded uh but the bids have been received and we will uh move forward with those. So that is part of the FY25 capital budget and outside of our general fund budget although of course part of the city's overall budget. And then the last thing just to note in the spirit of transparency, we've received a lot of um very helpful feedback including um a few um errors were brought to my attention in the budget book. So in the budget book that was posted on April 7th, the budget for the Bait School, which was on page 67 did not match the budget for the Bait School listed on page 45. And that was because
025it was an iterative process and we were rerunning the tables multiple times and I missed the Bates budget on page 67. So we have corrected that. The correct version is on the website. In addition, there was some confusion about the um whether a position was school-based or districtwide. Um one position in particular seemed to um just create some confusion which was a science coach. One science coach was budgeted district-wide and one science coach was budgeted to the schools in which that person worked. And so I made notes in the budget book, the version that is online to try to clarify that the science coaches are in fact district-wide cuts and in one instance had been reflected to show the impact on the school that that person worked in. So um apologies for those errors and
026thank you for those who brought uh those to our attention and that is my update. Thank you. Um so before we continue with questions and discussion with the committee members, we have a special order of business. Yeah, we uh want to take a moment to recognize uh Sar Rees who's been a longtime employee in the Salem public schools. Um and unfortunately she'll be leaving us um I think this end of this week. And uh we wanted to take a moment to share some parting words and parting gifts for um believe it or not 27 years of service to the Salem public schools. It just doesn't happen anymore. Um and so uh mayor I I don't know if you want to we're sorry we're going to ask you to come up here as the um as
027the celebrity here, but we're going to read you some things and then we'll come and present them to you. Um, the city of Salem proudly honors and recognizes Sanara Reyes Salem Public Schools for her 27 years of dedicated service to the Salem Public Schools parent information center department in the city of Salem. Since joining the city in 1998, Sanara has dedicated herself and her work to improving the lives of Salem parents and students, helping residents access the information and resources they need. Throughout her time with the city, her passion for education has made our public schools a better place for children to grow up. Sayanara's legacy of hard work and dedication has left a positive lasting impression that will not be forgotten. On behalf of the city, I wish the best in all her future
028endeavors. Dominic Pangalo, April 15th, 2025. And we're not done yet. Wait, there's more. Nice try. Nice try indeed. That's right. Uh family engagement in Salem uh is certainly evolved under your leadership. Sayanara and just wanted to make sure that I also gave you some recognition from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts which as part of our state strategic planning around um public education. We have a focus on family engagement and I think you've been exemplary. So I also bring with me a citation uh from the House of Representatives uh and it reads that the Commonwealth of Massachusetts House of Representatives be it hereby known to all that the House of Representatives offers its sincerest congratulations to Sanar Rees in recognition of your 27 outstanding years of service to the Salem public schools, the children and the families
029and your steadfast dedication to those same students, families and the broader school community. As you embark on your next uh new and exciting professional opportunity, we honor you um and your lasting impact and your commitment to equity, education, and empowerment. Our entire membership extends its very best wishes and expresses the hope for future good fortune and continued success in all of your endeavors given this day, April 15th, uh here in Salem. It's signed by the speaker of the house, uh Ron Mariano, and offered by me, uh your state representative, Manny Cruz. Thank you. We'll bring this. We're going to bring this to you. We also have uh some tokens. We want to make sure you got some swag on your way out as well. So, I I haven't really seen you in sweatshirts too often.
030I was going to say I think she might be too well dressed for a sale sweatshirt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they are pretty. We'll give her a moment. To stop the mascara. I gave her one. No, that's that's a special little gift. [Applause] Good night. Good night. Appreciate you. So, I would like to open it up to members if they have questions um for anyone from the district team or comments and reflections both on this presentation that we received today um the budget process uh the budget proposal more generally or feedback that we heard from members of the public yesterday. Member Cruz. Thank you, Mayor. Um really appreciated uh hearing from stakeholders all throughout uh the budget process and I want to thank the team again uh for all the work that went into the initial
031drafts here. Um so earlier um I both the superintendent and our assistant superintendent alluded to just some ongoing conversations that are happening uh with the state's budget process. So uh last week we did take up a supplemental budget which included um it was a result of the millionaires tax. There was a surplus this year in collections. uh want to thank uh everyone who voted for that initiative. Uh we were able to allocate um uh uh some particular funding uh to the circuit breaker. So there's an additional $190 million that was al allocated for the FY25 budget um that is intended to get the state um to honor uh 100% of its 75% commitment to circuit breaker which is um laid out in the student opportunity act. Regrettably, annually on most years, you're seeing like 44
03244% reimbursement rather than um you know that 75% number. Um so um that's currently in the process of still being worked through the legislature as the House has only taken up their version. It's not clear to me if the Senate is intending uh to add any additional relief or funding uh to both circuit breaker but then additionally uh more funds to the student opportunity act to try to address some of the inflationary issues um that exist uh with uh within the formula. So, uh, it's entirely possible that within the next, uh, month and a half or so, uh, as the Senate takes up the supplemental budget, uh, in short order and the negotiations complete, that there might just be some more K through2 funding on both the special ed side, but then also on broader,
033uh, S SOA. And so what that could potentially just mean for us as a district, again, there's no guarantees, is that the timing of the reimbursements might be able to allow us uh to just maybe prepay some more tuition uh for next year and potentially um you know, have conversations about u things that we might be able to bring back as a result. Uh so um there will also uh be a a debate that begins tomorrow on the House budget. uh we'll we'll release our FY26 budget and uh I'm hopeful that based on the really compelling testimony that came in from all over the state around the issues um that we're seeing with structural deficits, similar cuts in communities across the Commonwealth um that we will not only fully honor our commitments to S SOA,
034but that will allocate more funding uh per pupil uh across the state to ensure that districts uh that are experiencing um really significant challenges uh will be able to at least at least um mitigate some of it. Uh and then uh there will be the ongoing debate about uh you know what we do with the broader formula which has a host of issues that we've covered here over the years. So I'll keep folks posted on how that develops throughout the the budget process, but uh crossing our fingers for uh more more good news uh in the coming months. Thanks the members. I I comments and a couple questions. Um I guess maybe I'll go backwards. Um Elizabeth, if I could just have you clarify for me and I'm just sort of checking that I I
035want to make sure I'm thinking the right way. Um, as far as the uh out of district placements, the I know that it it always used to be at least that um most of the students who tend to come back come back at the end of a year and so that we would be more apt to know um when we're doing we we we know at the end of the year, but we don't yet know before the budget is due. So even though we could say in July, you know, we know that 12 students are returning, we would have had to have budgeted as if we didn't know that unless we already had signed ed plans. I mean, I know some team meetings are, you know, all of the team meetings would be before the
036end of the school year. I'm not sure if you can count on that though or if you have to wait for them to actually start, but I I would think we have an idea who's coming back into the district into the district. Um, so I would I'm going to attempt to answer this and if I don't do it well, Jen Ducet will That's good because I attempted to to ask it. Um, we have budgeted with every student that we know who is either waiting for a placement now or who is in a placement. We are just assuming they're going to stay in those place. They're going to get those placements. They're going to stay in what the placements that they have and they're going to stay all year. There are for whatever reason occasions where
037the placement doesn't work out and the child then or the child's family is looking for a different placement. So when I said the placements could change, sometimes they move from one place to another place. In addition, we don't know who's moving in and that has been two years ago. a whole separate question for me. So the number that I've offered is just assuming that everybody we know now is staying in the placement that they have or they're getting a placement. Okay. So it doesn't account for the kids that we're going to be able to bring back into district for education. I'm just trying to separate for now for my head the ones that are already out there and have had team meetings. for example, um that we might know they're coming and here comes Jen,
038which might be a help. I think so. As opposed to both of us. Um because my point was going to be just to to see where I'm going with this. Yeah. That the people that are going out tend to happen all year long. Like it it it isn't all decided over the summer. These came in and these are going out so we can budget. There's a the chunk go out. Yeah. we know now that for next year, but then there's always students in the middle of the year, etc., who we add out, add out, add out. So, can you just clarify that whole thing? So, the number that we've estimated for next year are the kids that we know are that are not coming back. Maybe they're graduating, maybe they're coming back in district, maybe
039they're going to the high school because we're at that natural place that we can transition. Um, and it's also the kids that we know we're looking for a placement. So that number right now is the kids that we definitely know are going to be coming back in district or graduating or aging out and the kids that we have on the wait list. And so what we've done is an estimated number uh of what that tuition will be of what schools we're looking at and what we think that they're what it's going to cost us. Right. And then just one followup. So roughly over the course of a year, you know, not once you've established what you just said, then how many more do we tend to add over the course of a year? And I
040know you can't make a number, but I'm like not 50, you know, but certainly more than a dozen probably. I mean, is that accurate? So there's there's every year we always have a handful of kids that come back in district that choose to say come back to the high school or go to Salem Prep or or go to some somewhere else in district. And then we do have some kids that do move in district or kids that where their situation changes in in dis that are already here with us and their situation changes and we have to find an opportunity. So I'd say about a handful. Okay. Um between it some between the moveins and our and some years we're lucky that we have the same amount of moveins as we have moveouts as well.
041Um so that's good. You know um it's I see that the numbers are going to stabilize um moving forward and we have some really good programs in district now. We've really done a lot of development with them. done a lot of PD with and to train up the folk that we have here. Um so we're able to keep more and more kids in district and the kids that are going out of district, they're intensive. Um they, you know, it's it's something that we can't handle in district or their needs are so great or it's a is a need that's oneoff and they don't have a peer group here. So the kids that are out of district, they're appropriate most of them appropriately placed and that's where they should be and um they're getting the best
042service and the least restrictive that they can get in that placement. Okay. So, we don't see too much movement of kids coming back unless it's at that natural break point like the high school. Okay. Or middle school. Okay. Does that make sense? Yes. Thank you. No problem. Thank you. Um should I just run the list? Go for it. Um I just wanted to comment on um well, a couple of things. the the overview to the cuts [Music] um when we talk when you talked about the I mean we've all talked for like weeks and weeks but just now again about one PE one you.5 music.5 odd um and then I I don't know somebody mentioned like there are people who travel like the uh instrumental music people or whatever um I just don't want to
043equate those two categories though in in my head and in my memory. I mean, I think there is um a substantive difference between somebody who's traveling school to school doing instrumental music and it could be if you you know have an instrument that not too many kids are are you know taking if you total it up even that person could be somebody who's teaching something that maybe they go to um two or three schools a day and maybe you know all the schools in a week and I don't think the expectation for those kinds of positions is that too many people are really going to expect that they become part of the culture and the filling in at this, you know, this and that if they have to and all that. I mean, they really
044do come and go and if they get off schedule by 10 minutes, it means the class at the next next school is going to be late or whatever. I mean, there's travel time built in, but there's not travel time. and by the way stay and help us like you know do snack time and and do you know etc. Um so I I don't want to look at the um you know music art PE situations and say well there's these other people that traveled anyway that it I really it's a different animal. I really do believe you know and um I just want to make a point of that also while talking about the the specialist issue and the numbers of specialists etc. I mean, I get the bud the whole budget piece certainly um I
045beta as chair of the finance committee, but um I think there are some ways that some of this could be a little bit easier and I'm just I mean I've been trying to think of things to put on the table that would help and I and I really moneywise haven't come up with a whole lot of that. But I think that if we again going back to you know years of being a not a traveling person because God God helped me with a string instrument but a teacher who was going to two schools many days um and then there were the other days that I was in one school and the difference just for me and for the schools I think it is there is a difference and I and I'm not going to at
046all try to overlook that or minimize it but I think I also can't minim minimize the the monetary issues that we're at here and the numbers of students in the buildings. But I think if we try to look at things like having the schedules arranged so that there's not a day that if they're like if someone's in two buildings if then you know um if there could it be that there one of the buildings may be bigger than the other. So they could spend three full days in one and two full days in another as opposed to a half of every day. I mean, when I would be in a building for a day or when I would have a teacher in my building for a day, then they could get involved in a lot
047of the things that you're talking about and the culture and the support and then and then know the kids. Whereas even if you're not an a like an instrumental person trying to cover strings everywhere, but you're still on the road trying to make that next time frame, it does change um the way that you look the assignment and the and the teachers and the kids look at you. So I would just offer that as a possibility for some of these issues that might help um you know bring and I'm not necessarily saying It would bring a person, but it would at least bring a position into a better place for the school and whoever's in that position than it might be if they were running around on on several days. Um, so I just want
048to throw that out into the mix. Um, and then jumping over to the library situ librarian or the library situation. Um, a couple of things. I, you know, since I got on the committee have been really pushing the whole library piece and issues and trying to get staff back and people and it's just sort of been my my thing, I think. And it's sometimes I think that Kate wants to shut the door when I was heading at her. But and I did the same thing this year and I was like, "Wait a minute. Whoa, what's going on?" Blah, blah, blah. And I have to say I sat down with Mark and and and uh Kate and we had a really good and and I sat down to be fair other Mark and and Kate also
049would explain things to me and sort of try to you know get me off the ceiling but I think that this time um they were successful to do that again. I I don't think that um I and I'm not saying I just say, "Yeah, cut people." But I am saying that I think the way that this is planned out um that that it will continue to provide more um teaching and learning in the libraries as opposed to just checking out the books, etc. and and both for the um hard, you know, the the books, the magazines, whatever, and the whole technology piece and the digital piece. I think that um I, you know, I support the direction that we're going since we have to pick a direction that we're going in. I would love to
050be saying we're going to have add what we're adding and keep the people we have, but I'm not sure that's in the cards. But I do think I'm okay with what's happening with the libraries. And um my only couple of questions. One is when you say the principles will intentionally build in weekly time for a schedule for grade level. I I'm assuming that's more elementary than the middle school. I mean I I don't I'm not sure that the middle school you would be able to say like okay the seventh grade goes to the library today. I mean they're in they're in class. they're in they have a schedule that's very different than it. So, I'm just hoping that's the case. Yeah, I think it does include the um middle school as well. It won't be
051like the seventh grade, but that the library is open for this period where teachers from different grade levels could send kids down. I mean, I was but but not like okay, the whole class is to go now and get like like a like Yeah. sort of what maybe elementary's changed from that, but that's what I'm picturing elementary. I was in an English class, seventh grade last week and the three kids and they went down to so that there would be dedicated periods for that. Okay. Um and then the other thing was the after school um issue at the li at the Collins. Anyway, I I maybe I should have known but I did not realize that the after school I was at the Collins had had um shut down. I'm here. I'm here a lot,
052but um it's either in the morning for for uh subcommittee meetings or up in the archive room or it's at night for meetings like this, but I'm not really here much at that like 3:00 and then 4:30 when you know that after school time for the library. So, um again, I you know, I went in and said like what's what's going on? We don't have the libraries open. They need to be open after school. Um, for for this age student, I think, you know, um, they need time to just look things up that they're interested in, which you can't really necessarily do during a class time. You, you know, they need a place to socialize if there's no other safe place. They need a place to do homework if it's not quiet at home. I
053mean, there's a million reasons it's good for kids to have access to a library after school. So, I'm just putting in a plug. I know you're working on trying to get some of the after school money funded for that. I just really hope that that's going to take place because I think if if if we continue to not have access to the library for students of this age level and we're bringing more students over, you know, we're bringing over salt. So, I just would like to really make sure that we can figure out a way to do that. But I think for now that's I think let me just double check and then I'll be quiet for somebody else to take a turn. the uh special ed, the libraries, and the traveling teacher. I think
054that that's it for now. Thank you. Thank you. Remaining members, mayor. I just want to see if anyone else has a call. Member Cruz. Uh thank you, mayor. So, um I guess on on my end, um I think similar to uh member Manning on the specialist side, um certainly appreciate the reflections uh superintendent that you had shared today around um art uh in the district and PE and all the things that we know are super important for our students. I guess if there was more thinking that could be done, you know, given that, you know, we're trying to get the commissioner of ECE, the secretary to pay more attention to what we're doing on the early um early ed side, you know, we got a really compelling uh piece of correspondence from uh the team
055o over at the ECC. And we know that our students that are there um uh they're going to be there as three and four year olds. And as we think about the impact that that PE teacher is having on our students with disabilities and and just the broader community of the ECC and what the data has shown about um the impact of that particular program, I'm just of the opinion that preserving as much of what's going on there is is critically important. And then clearly um you know superintendent when we checked in about just the budget preview I had mentioned to you before that you know as we consider any potential cuts. I just think you know right now um the most uh there at difficult times during the districts students absolutely find themselves uh
056in the specialist programs. They do with all the teachers that they hold relationships with. But art in particular, um I just feel really strongly is about the students that at times can be the hardest to reach. Uh where the conventional seat time doesn't necessarily um speak to um their needs as students. So, you know, I just would ask is as as you think about potential trade-offs, potential savings that could be achieved, examining, you know, everything from, you know, vendor contracts to, you know, any uh consulting contracts or um, you know, things that could be taken off the books. Um, any pauses on spending in particular categories um of things that are non-essential. Um, you know, I would just ask that as we look at, you know, that particular section of the budget that you've highlighted
057today that we do our best to preserve those particular positions in the event that there is um more relief that comes from the state uh in the conversations that we're having uh or if we're able to just find something that could be temporary um so that we can preserve those, you know, really critical positions uh across our schools. So, you know, those are the areas that I saw as like, you know, as we're thinking about the next two weeks, taking a look harder look at our numbers, if there's any potential trade-offs that could be made, any other reductions in different areas um across the district. Um, you know, I feel strongly like that in this particular year, given the situation that we're heading towards, it's going to be really important that we protect those um
058particular functions within the district. C can I just respond to that? I I I appreciate that. And you know, I do think one of the things is over time, I mean, in prior years, we didn't really thoughtfully look at how we were matching um supports to schools around the specialist time. And I think this is called into, you know, this is a good exercise for us to really make sure that there's equity across schools because right now there isn't equity across schools and um and to make sure that we're meeting we also have a shift in hours. We have a shift in prep expectations. We have a shift in um in um you know we want more common planning time in schools and we obviously have a brand new school in Salt and Stall or
059well not a brand new school but a much smaller school with different needs and this gives us the opportunity instead of just having the same thing across schools we're going to look at all the needs across the elementary schools and allocate uh resources in a way that I don't think the student experience is going to be interrupted at all. I really don't. And I I'll I'll you can hold me accountable for that. Kids are still going to have art. They're going to have music. They're going to have PE and in many cases more well more kids are going to have library next year than they ever have before. Uh there now I I don't know the the what we heard feedback around having full-time people in every school. Yeah. that that we might not be
060able to achieve that and realize that um because of the size of all the schools but I but I think we're going to have a more efficient use of resources. I think we also haven't considered the needs of there's also instrument for instance instrumental music needs that um we we can maybe leverage some of our extra some of our specialist staff for. We need to better maximize the impact that our spe our talented specialists have on behalf of kids. Right? I there are cases right now where we have many many more specialist uh time allocated than what is needed in the school. And so this is a much more efficient use uh as we and we appreciate the willingness of um you know the STU to sit down with us but more importantly we need
061our specialists to work with us. I don't think we've heard their voices enough, too, because I I think most people in Salem um staff here think about kids first. And I do know that if we sat down with our staff, we could come up with a schedule that's actually going to be better for kids. It may cause there to be people moving from building to building. And to Mary's point, yeah, in a perfect world, I I wouldn't want to see that either. I mean, I've been a principal at a a big school with full-time specialists and a small school. It is not ideal. But it's the reality when you're we have such small schools right now. And I think to your point, we want to try to minimize that. I'm just saying try not to
062break up a day. I agree. I I and I think that's a fair thing to say, but I think we can actually develop something better than what we have now that's going to better serve kids around the district and ensure that no K child in this system I I agree with all the comments. Kids need art. They need music. It's why they come to school. They they want li library is for some kids is the highlight of their day. PE, right? Like th those are they don't come to school for math. I mean, as much as I wish they did, right? I say, you know, but they're coming for a lot of these other extra programs. And I would not endorse a budget that doesn't support um strong programming and and ample programming for kids
063in those areas. If no one else is going to say anything, you can count on me. Um, I I just want to sort of echo Manny's um what Manny said about um I think he said about the ECC situation with the fizzed person because I do think that's a um so specialized as uh you know I mean everybody takes the course you know I remember like teaching the handicapped child when I was like 19 and taking the course and it was like a 20 whatever But the reality of like reading the book and now I'm sure it's very very different but still the reality of reading the book and actually being full-time trained to work with kids with substantial um you know disabilities of whatever kind, whatever you want to call it, um is enormous
064and I I would just if there's any, you know, another nook or cranny we can look at to to look at that and um I would just, you know, throw my two cents, my my one cent in after Manny's, too. Just an area and I don't I I took that to me. You were talking about that. That's exactly what I was saying. Yeah. Thank you, Mayor. Member Manning, I that's exactly what I was kind of referring to that specialization. I mean, it's very clear. Um, you know, I I think it's critically important in the larger context being we're already seeing cuts outside of our community to programs that um in particular serve students with disabilities that are a result of federal funding cuts. So, you know, the same students right now that um as an
065example would be accessing things like um swim class that's particularly designed for them at the YMCA if they're on the autism spectrum. You know, they're losing that service in our community. So as I think about, you know, the importance of physical education for um the academic, social, emotional development of our students, you know, I just think that that's just one area that again, if any of these savings uh materialize, if there are further trade-offs that can happen within the next couple of weeks, that those be the positions that we prioritize uh to come back into the district uh andor to say, you know, if we did find a trade-off, you know, this is the place that we've made an adjustment. Um, and so that's kind of just my positionality there. Member Cornell, I think this,
066you know, this is a terrible situation all around and like Mary have sort of been going through and thinking about all those positions. Not that I have the kind of insight that Mary has, but um, based on feedback from people in the community and people who were here last night, I think the one concern that I do have is is around equity. um making sure that the kids who need the most are getting the most. And so I I understand in a in an effort to be fair, right? We've we started by saying, "Okay, we're going to everybody's going to have a sort of percentage reduction at each school." Um but it is it's hard to look at those Carlton numbers and not feel like this is wildly out of whack. And um particularly, you
067know, I think when uh uh the teachers from Bates were here, the reading specialists from Bates were here last night. I think that kind of brings that inequity into stark relief a little bit because Carlton is getting more resources than other schools with fewer kids. And the Bates population enrollment, I was just sort of going through it, is going up considerably every single year from 22 to to now. It's an it's an increase of like 14 students per year. And I know that includes the ECC as well, but um I I don't know how you go back and look at this, but um but I would like there to be some evaluation of the of equity versus, you know, equality of reduction. Um particularly when we know that you know the b the uh horse
068man community has been really working hard to kind of you know make academic strides community strides and I don't want to undercut that community by saying everyone has to kind of take their medicine here. some communities really need a little bit of extra support. And so that's the thing that I that I'm hoping that we can look a little bit closer on and frankly with a with a special focus on Carlton what Carlton? No other members Campbell. I think I think in that regard I I don't necessarily disagree with you, member Cornell, but I do think the challenge is that if we're going to have innovation plans come and be approved by school committee, we that the reality of it is that there are consequences for budgeting down the line that we may not necessarily
069be aware of. So like the types of budget autonomy, curricular autonomy, staff autonomy, those those do increase amounts in ways that are not necessarily proportionate. And so like I said, I don't necessarily disagree with you. I just don't know that there's a like in I I think the larger question for us as a body is in in lean budget years are we capable of supporting innovation schools or is it coming at the cost of our other buildings and what do we want to do with that information as opposed like I don't correct me if I'm wrong but I don't know that there's necessarily anything we can do about the fact that they have just well I think we have to look into that I mean they it is some of it is baked in their
070plan um but it is and I don't think we've This this has shed a light on the level of inequity. But, you know, we do have two schools with innovation plans. Um, and those two schools, you know, are f, you know, have are provided with additional funding. The dual language program is more costly to run. That just happens to be the school though where we have the greatest need of students. So that feels different to me than Carlton where you know from a socioeconomic level right we have uh less need there and and their innovation plan does call for a very unique and successful model but is more costly to to run as well. So I think we can we we need to examine just where that whether there is flexibility. But if you do
071look at the ratios that I sent you around the literacy support, it's clear that there's an in an equity with Carlton receiving more support than the rest of the schools. The other schools sort of fall in to what I think is a an appropriate ratio, but not car not Carlton. And so I I I think that is something I will come back to you on because when I saw that starkness and that was you know we heard a little bit of that from Bates. Um yeah that is a place where I think we have major inequity. the the other places in around well uh not so much with Carlton but there is inequity around the amount of specialist time that schools have right now that we have to adjust like Salt and Stall will have
072be probably the smallest elementary school next year and right now on paper they have the most specialist time right so that needs to be adjusted in my opinion um and so those are some of the deep dives that we have to do in the next week and we can report back to you about that and um so Yeah, I think I think you rais an important point. I I just have to note I have to have to check on what sort of flexibilities we have from out outside of the innovation plan. Kimble. Yeah, thanks. I just I don't want to miss the forest for the trees and the like trying to in this moment adjust budgetary things when you know when we're having this conversation about this particular school when it comes up in enrollment
073and it comes up in budget what we really have to talk about is the larger issue of we are continuing to vote in support of an innovation plan and then you know heming and hawing over whether we can in fact support it in practice and I think if we're going to keep doing that then we really have to stop and like have a longer more deep conversation in terms of the innovation plan itself Um, and then I think the only other comment that I would make um is perhap I I appreciate you sending over the numbers. I think what is a little tricky from from like a ratio standpoint as an educator is that reading specialist like just looking at the total enrollment and the number of reading staff. It doesn't really capture the amount
074of students that may be requiring tier 2 and tier three. Um, so you know, for example, if a school has a 100 students and all 100 of them, hopefully not, are requiring tier 2 and tier three, that's a different ratio than a school that has a 100 students and just two students are needing tier two and tier three. Um, so for me, I I don't know how readily available that type of data is, but having a better understanding of how many students should be receiving additional reading support, that might make I I I'm torn because part of me is not necessarily sure that I personally need that information to help me make these types of decisions. But I wonder I don't want people to look at 400 kids, three specialists, 200 kids, two SP, and
075just assume that it's an applesto apples comparison is kind of my concern in that. Does that make sense? Yeah, except that I would just be careful about the fact that I think, you know, sometimes when there's poor, you know, tier one instruction, right, that then there's more kids than need to be. And so that's a, you know, that's a tough thing. Sometimes, uh, schools, there's an overidentification of kids who need that because there's poor, you know, general instruction for kids or inconsistent, I should say. So, but it's a fair point and I think although I I'm still go back to the fact that Carlton from a they're they're they do not on paper have a more needy population. Oh, no. And that's not what I was trying to imply. I was just saying like if
076you're looking at for example like it would not be sufficient for me as I was making these types of decisions to just look at the total enrollment of Bates and the total number of reading specialists and know whether that was fair in proportion with the rest of the district if that were like something that I was considering. was pronounced. That's really helpful for me to think about, too, because I was also trying to parse out, you know, when we're we're looking at these total enrollment numbers and we're also including ECC students in there. And, you know, it wasn't actually clear to me if the Bates reading uh specialists were also working with the ECC students. Are they prek? Excuse me, the pre I'm sorry, the prek kids. They're working with the entire population. Uh, that
077is a good question. I would not go out on a limb and say whether they are or not. They didn't mention it though, did they? Last night. So, we I can get back to you on whether or not they pull groups. My guess is that they do not. Yeah. Okay. Because that also, but I don't want to say that use the numbers, you know, that we're dealing with too. So, it's like if you're looking at them, typically it wouldn't be prek. No. Okay. So if you're looking then these numbers aren't quite those ratios aren't quite right if they're not actually working with our prek students. So it's but still I I I still think that if we're looking at the growth the overall growth I was just sort of pulling out the ECC from Bates.
078It's still it's still significant. um you know it's a it's a desirable school and so I think and where like um not all you know some schools are a little flatter it looks like um like you know uh witchcraft is is sort of in the negative in terms of growth over the past five years so it's like I think there's a lot of considerations beyond the ratio um so that actually I think that information might be helpful to think about bates I I that's one thing that's sort of like nagging at me is the the reduction of um reading specialists that member Cruz I think one thing um superintendent and um to the whole team executive team that I I would think would be helpful uh just over the next couple of weeks to get
079an understanding of I know that at times that uh when we've been looking to kind of maintain positions within the district um we have found ways to move um certain positions to different grants grants. Um, and I know that the timing of these grants is not always ideal, but maybe just for members of the committee, uh, if we could just get a assessment of, um, you know, what the current grants that we've received as a district are, if there are any flexibilities, um, and any of the multi-year grants to, you know, move some of these positions and functions and priority areas um, that we're discussing. Um, and maybe to go back to some of the funders um, on the philanthropy side to see what they're what they would be willing to support. Um, and then
080additionally, it would just be good to know what's in the pipeline for any of the state grants that you've all applied for and the timing of those, uh, Steve, just so that, um, you know, I have a sense of what's going on there. Uh, because I I' just I'd be curious as we're trying to figure out the broader budget picture. Um, yes, we would be glad to come back with some of that information. Just as part of this process, we've taken a look at in particular our entitlement grants. We have a lot of staff on entitlement grants. I think uh the number is 50 um grants on our or staff on entitlement grants. Um yeah, we have 28.6 FTS on federal funds. We have 5.5 on state funds and 15 on local so private funders
081or other grants. Um we have also used as this body I think remembers we've used our school choice revenue that comes in each year to support our early childhood um educators some of them. And um that is not technically a grant, but it is a revolving fund of revenue that we've added staff to. So um we have taken a first pass at making sure we are maximizing the revenue that comes in either um either through revolving accounts like school choice or through federal, state, and local grants. But we are continuing to look to see if on some of our um private grants if there are staffing positions that could be added within the intent of the grant. That is a active and ongoing process. Okay. Be glad to you know come back do a little
082do another pass um and come back to you with that information. Yeah. And I and I think I mean this is the big I mean the big hope I have is around the prek Manny because we are using the choice money which is um you know I I don't think it's not really a risky proposition because we expect to get a certain amount of choice every year uh revenue in but I'd like to move some other things to that instead of the prek because I want there to be sustainable funding for prek from the state you know in in some way and that's where I think you know we the amount of work we put into this CPPI grant at the state level is obscene and I I I mean Kate can she'll if you
083want to take a seat and Kate will describe to you the amount of work that we put in for that grant and we really don't see much of anything from that grant in terms of our programming. I mean again it's good for the it's for the general good of the city of Salem and working with our prek partners. It it's an important re important resources, but it doesn't help the the day-to-day operation of our programs here, our public, our public prek programs, which is very frustrating to me that that um you know that that that hasn't materialized in that way because we are I think our programs are of the highest quality. our teachers are being paid uh you know a meaningful wage and I think um and I I would I think we we're
084seeing the impact of those of those programs yet we don't really we don't receive a full reimbursement from from in chapter 70 and we can't touch this I don't know how much money was in the CPPI grant this year Kate I mean it was a million a million we can't touch any of that a million well we do we do well I shouldn't say any of it right we do it doesn't subsidize our staff Um it doesn't subsidize our staff um or um we also use it to defay tuition for families who are paying like our programs are fe free and so um it's it defays uh costs for families who are in need who are paying in our partner programs and it boosts their salaries of their staff who are making considerably less than
085our teachers. We do use it to um offer um you know expanded day here um and um and we do charge on a sliding scale, but for those who um need financial help with that and need the expanded day, we do access resources um from CPPI to pay for that in the Salem public schools. But to the superintendent's point, I mean, we are um and we we pay for some staff. So the two um instructional coaches we we pay for um uh the city connects are coming from a United Way and private funer. So we do have some staff that are helping. We pay for an itinerant team that has um eliminated uh the need for us to pull our teachers out of ECC. and you know the kids in those classrooms were with a
086a with a parah and you know while the teacher was going out and doing observations. So there are some benefits but certainly not at the rate or you know to have a sustainable um you know impact on our programming. Understood. hearing you there on the kind of uh the framework being a little bit inflexible and obviously it would be great if those um the the tuition rates were coming back on par with what you would normally get uh for your chapter 70 allocation. I guess on my end it would be I I'd be curious about um what the flexibilities are for our partners in the CPPI grant to absorb some of our um uh to just have conversations with them about where there might be opportunities to think about resources and how we can preserve
087um some of what we have going on here. I don't know what flexibilities exist, but it's worth having a conversation. And then on the school choice front, um we project annually on that revenue based on um the vote that we take annually on the number of students that we are currently enrolling. Correct. That's where that Yeah, we al well it's also the number of kids we already have enrolled because we get that funding every year. Uh and then we do open it up to additional seats. Um but we the kids who are once they're accepted they're in and we receive annual funding for for each child that's school choiced in and we've choiced the total every year it's like 120 No it's more than that right it's in terms of the revenue we receive no
088the number of students that we offer the seats for again um I will have to get back to you on that that's okay but I can tell you the revenue the revenue you can tell me yeah so that's like a half a million yeah this year it'll be closer to 600 $00,000. In the coming year, it will be closer to $600,000. I mean, the demand we we have high demand to come in and we've we I'm I I think well, you'll hear my proposal this year, which is uh I'm worried about accepting school choice to middle school because we're making a major adjustment with Salt and Stall coming here. But, uh yeah, we we have huge demand for choice coming in and so the number has gone up. Uh and it it there's a it
089there cuts both ways, right? like there's pros to it and then the challenges and there's a number of special we can get into that at the time when I present but there are challenges especially with special education services um for students once we accept them uh there is high the cost may exceed what we get for them that's just a and I do believe it is 120 students but I will confirm that number yeah that the number is always kind of floating in my head because we have that conversation annually so I guess um that's a postbudget conversation around the school choice piece But um Steve, just so we get a preview, are you because of the demand, are you suggesting that um that potential account could grow, but there is the risk that again
090that that comes with more associated cost? We're just we kind of want to stabilize around the half a million. I mean, that's kind of what we figure um this particular year because of the transition from salts uh uh the the salt students coming over here in the middle school. I want to be careful. My proposal this year will be not to accept school choice students at the middle school level for this year only and then revisit it. Okay. Um because of the unique circumstances for this upcoming school year. Thanks for the preview. Thank you. Manning. Um just to respond to what you just said. Um from the point of view of the students coming in um I might take a second thought at that that this is actually a good year for kids to come
091in under choice who are coming in as new students as singletons and you know whatever from when because there are going to be a lot of new students and I would imagine a lot of um more offerings than normal for new kids and stuff. So, I don't know if you're counting the numbers that that certainly would be a reason not to, but as far as kids blending in, if I was coming as a school choice children and there were 30 of us coming in new too, that's a much more secure way to do it as for the kids. It's also related to class sizes. Yeah. Well, that's, you know, that could be the and I want to watch the class sizes at the middle school level because they're they're high and, you know, I kind
092of I'd like to stabilize them uh to make sure that we don't, you know, overwhelm people. Yeah, I was actually going to say something else and then he said that. But um can um when you said the the salts um specialist schedule is extra time compared to the others, is that because they they haven't taken out the time allotted for 678 or has that been taken out and they still get more? Yeah, we we did move a couple of specialists over here in the the Collins, you know, shift, but still based on the number one, right? One in one subject and one in another one, I think. Well, there the Spanish and the um in health. Yeah. Um but the the challenge, I mean, with the number of students they have, they have more specialist
093time than the other small schools. And that's why as Kate pointed out like this this exercise of looking at the number of people we have across the system uh salts would be a place that I think has more specialist time than they actually need for the number of classrooms they have and the and the needs for prep time for teachers and so forth. I I just want to make sure that we're talking the same language given that I wasn't even thinking of health and Spanish as specialist. I'm still thinking the big, you know, the basic big three specialist things. They have one full-time person in each of those areas, right? Which they had when they were a K to8, right? Um, yes. So, they still have one full-time in even though we've taken three grades
094out. That's correct. So, shouldn't we be looking at all of this with those numbers that you That's exactly what That's exactly. Okay. So the ones you presented the the numbers that we've been dealing with now are based on the salt and stall sixth, seventh, and eighth grade is not at salt and stall anymore. Correct. Okay. All right. Um could some maybe I guess this is back at you again. Talking about the reading interventionists. I just was curious um when they talked last night about the the uh assessments the star and at one point one one person said if we weren't doing that the uh you know classroom teachers would have to be if we weren't administering that the classroom teachers would have to be administering it which made me wonder at the time but I
095want to ask well who's administering it all all the schools that might not have and as you know two interventionists are just one like is that is that unusual that if they weren't there the classroom teachers wouldn't be would be doing it isn't that what other classroom teachers do. Yeah. So I think it's a combination of the classroom teachers and the reading specialists. um you know it's a universal screener and it's required right and everybody can get dyslexia plan and um and so but then they do the followup with the students that they're working with and we've worked um really hard in the past couple of years to get really more specific around when kids do go to an intervention that we are actually progress monitoring and we have some right and and have a
096trained interventionist offering Yeah. and have a some means of um being able to assess is the child growing. Okay. But the time that that they do on the administering them, I mean, it's not it's not so unusual that other classroom teachers would have to do that if they didn't have those two special interventionists. Is that accurate? They mentioned it as a as like if we weren't there, the classroom teachers would have to do it. And just teachers are doing it, right? It's just but it just made me think like Yeah. Okay. Um, and then just one other comment and and it has to do with uh when when you were talking, but Steve, I think you were talking about the um the ratio, I think, and several of you were mentioning it and I just
097um and I know I've said this to you sort of recently, that whole issue of like ratios just it does make me nervous as a as a slippery slope to to look at things in that way because I I I think I watched this system struggle so hard to get away from everybody got x amount of dollars per pupil and that was it. And it didn't matter if you were the Bentley school with 83% free lunch at the time or salt and stall with 16%. Everybody get the exact same. And I feel like we have worked away from that. And I just want to I just always keep that in mind because I was receiving from at 1.6 six and and all the time five elementaryaries and you could see the difference based on you
098know the the whole you know student enrollment and and all. Um, I mean, we we and we were the only middle school, so we were receiving everybody and we would we would get these disparities in through no fault of anybody because everybody was working as hard as they could in all of the schools and everybody took care of their kids and everybody, you know, w were doing the absolute best, but because of the makeup, it, you know, it was very difficult And I feel like, yeah, we're not perfect at it, but we don't do that anymore. And I don't want to do that. I don't want to slip into that, you know, and the word just the word ratio makes me nervous. But I guess that's just a comment, not a question. Member Miranda. Uh,
099thank you. Um, Dr. is right. Can you briefly describe how we got to these suggested cuts? Um I know you and I briefly spoke about it. Um but for members of the public or um maybe somebody in this room, I'd like for you to Yeah. So we we asked departments to and schools to um uh make uh to to um make uh reductions based on the overall percentage of the budget that they represented in the prior in the current fiscal year. So that that's how we asked them to make um suggested reductions. uh we took the input from the department head or the school leader. Um in some cases they you know they they did consult with site councils but later in the process. Um but they you know they did consult with their leadership
100team. Um and it depends on the school the school the extent to whether staff you know were involved in those decisions or not but generally it was the recommendations uh that we received from the leader of the department or the leader of the school. Thank you. Um, I think it's it's really important in all forms of government that we have like decision-making processes that are democratic um in the sense that staff are really central and involved in these processes. And though I don't um there's not, you know, any particular um leadership that I'm thinking of in terms of, you know, not advocating correctly for students. Like I'm not suggesting anything like that. Um but I do think it's really important that going forward um it might be a little too late in this budget season,
101but that we have less like paternalistic um ways of gathering this information and making decisions. Um and obviously, you know, we heard from staff yesterday. I think it's really important that our staff um feel that their voices are are heard. Um, and I think it's important for the public and our students to all feel um, involved and not just that they're giving feedback after the fact um, but that they're really included uh, in the process. And then I just have two other things that I wanted to mention. Um, I'm curious if there's room to save cost by looking at our TSP uh programming and then also perhaps it would be beneficial on several fronts to have less um subsparate classrooms. And I say that fully acknowledging that I am not an educator. Um, but at
102some point, I know I would be curious to hear from the experts that we have um on our team about that because we've had conversations about that and I I think it goes um in some ways against our values of of inclusion. And the other thing I wanted to mention which is directly related to the sub separate classrooms uh was around the reductions to the special education programming across the district that's being proposed um in FY26 budget. On page 62, it says that these reductions are being made based on enrollment and student need. And with some of the data that this body has seen um and data that's been collected, we know that we need to better serve this population. And so I'm unclear about how we got to several deductions in this area. And
103I would like to know if the administration could come up with alternative options to restore special education positions. Um and then as an example, it may be helpful if there's an opportunity to either share assistant principal roles or restructure to reduce um administrative costs. And that's all I wanted to add. Thank you. Do you want me to respond to any? Yeah, I mean I I to to the first uh questions about like engaging staff, I'd also be remiss if I didn't share that like we did have multiple forums with students, with staff, and with the community. Um the challenge with budget processes, right? Like if you if you engage people around what positions, they're going to obviously talk about their they don't want to eliminate their pos, you know, positions. It becomes a it is
104a challenging conversation to have. What I do believe though, and this is maybe I'm maybe I'm too polyianish, but I do believe that our school leaders um in most cases have good relationships with their school teams and are having conversations around um you know, priorities in their schools. Like I do trust our school leaders uh that they're also not doing this in a vacuum because they know their staffs. They're there they there's input. We try to select balanced humans to run schools to the extent possible, which I think is important. Um, I'm always open to like ways because I do think we do engage people more than most communities. I'm not saying we're perfect and I am always interested in how we can better do this. It's always challenging, especially in times of reduction. When
105it's times of addition, it's pretty easy, right? Like you just open it up. We got blank check. What What do you guys want? you know, um that's a different conversation, but I'm very open to that and I think that's a fair point to make. Um your your comments about uh TSP and inclusion. I think that I I really believe that that's a direction we have to go to be a more inclusionary district. It does come with more costs. I think it's when you truly do inclusion the right way and Jen you can correct me if I'm wrong. It it it will require more staff to do that well at least initially, right? Um I don't I think that's an a good um I think that's an important ambition for us to have as a school
106district and I know in talking to uh Carrie Nan who's the head of the pack um you know we she wants to visit some schools and districts that do inclusion particularly well. I think we have pockets of it here, but I wouldn't say we are like as inclusionary as I think you're referring to. And I do think that there is a resource uh question around that. Um and it would cost us more to do. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't do it. I think we should be moving towards that. And Jen jump save me if I made a mistake in anything I said, but I think you would agree with what um most of it. I think I'm um for the TSP program we do run strands where we have full subs separate and we
107have inclusion as well K through 12. Um so there is a variety of options depending on what students need. At the middle school we have a complete strand where they are um included as much as they need. So some students only see the therapeutic counselor and they go to all general ed classes uh inclusion classes. Then we also have a strand where students need a higher level of support and they take most of their academics within the TSP program. So we do offer that strand at the high school. Um it is mostly inclusion um with the exception of 9th grade. They have a nth grade team uh cohort where they take most of their academics within the program. We are also working on uh strengthening our program at the high school depending on the student
108needs. So next year we will see some more classes that are offered co-taught for the therapeutic program and some that are taught within the program. Okay. Um also for almost every student and in in the in subsparates we do offer um support if they want to be in inclusion. So if we have a student who is maybe in our ASDABA program um a lot of those students take a take classes within uh the general education. So it really is dependent on each student's needs and we try to include them as much as as as we can in the general education. But I would just say we don't really have a full inclusion model of like a full school inclusion model without subsparates which is what you're I think talking about and there are some districts
109that have gone down that road and I and schools it is a very complex process. It is a costly process. It's not It is the right thing to do for kids, but it requires a level of training and support. I I can I know that like Northampton public schools have done a lot of work around and there's specific schools in Boston public that have done that work and we are and that's what Carrie's really interested in. So, we've started that dialogue and she's absolutely right that that's the direction we should move more. I'd love to break up all the subs separates except you got to do it thoughtfully, carefully otherwise um you know it will could backfire on you. Um but I do think it's the right thing for us to be moving towards as
110a district and you should continue to push us in that direction and and I if you want to come visit uh Carrie just sent an email to the Henderson School in Boston about us visiting although um to see like the model that they have which is like a full inclusionary model. Um, so I I think it's a great uh great um aspiration for us as a district. The question about the special education staff, you know, the I our ratios are pretty strong rel related relative to other districts with our demographics. I I some of the shifts that Jen has um recommended in this budget have to do with, you know, case load shifts in schools and so some of it changes as kids move from level to level. Some of it is frankly our ratios
111are were really high like or I I know you don't want me to talk about ratios but I'm talking about ratio. This is a different kind of ratio. This is a different kind of ratio. Um and you know we looked at how like other districts I don't think we're we'll be we're not out of whack anywhere. Um I I do I do worry to be honest that we the numbers in special education are getting high. And to me that speaks I'm now maybe going on a little bit of a tangent, but I does speak to me of concerns about the quality of our tier one instruction across the board because I don't think like like statistically there's more, you know, more kids in Salem that need special education services. I think some of it is
112the pandemic but and and a lot of it is I think there's some over referral. I do think we have over referrals right now of kids uh you know and and I I I do worry about that. that doesn't doesn't mean that we we we obviously have to provide the right um number of staff for the number of kids that need supports. I'm not concerned based on what Jen has showed me um and and showed Kate and I that we're in a good place. So, we just made adjustments in places where we thought we could um you know, it was another way for us to balance the budget in places where we knew that our ratios were strong. Of course, I would love to have more staff in that area. I'd love to have more
113multilingual learning staff. I mean, Andre would tell you if he were here at the microphone that he would like to have more staff to support um our um multilingual learners, but we thought that these were reasonable adjustments based on the case loads. So, that that's my best answer. Obviously, we would I'd love to be able to restore a lot of these positions, but I'm not I'm not particularly concerned that we don't have enough staff in the in for to support multilingual learners and special education students going in to next year based on the ratios that we're projecting. Agreed. And I just want to talk a little bit about the um increase in sub-sepparate classrooms. Um, we used to have well over a hundred students that were out of district. As a response to that, to
114keep our students in our community in a least restrictive environment, have opportunities to neurotypical peers. Um, we did increase our offerings of subsparate classrooms and and that shows in our numbers where we now only have in the mid-50s uh students out of district whereas before we had well into the hundreds of students. Um, so when you look at it that way, we have about the same amount of students that require int an intensive placement. It's just where is that placement located? So we do have we do have more students um in our ASD classrooms, in our life skill classrooms as a direct result of what's going on in the community and in the state, but also to address keeping our students in the least restrictive environment possible in our own community. Member Miranda, did you
115have a followup? Um, yeah, I might have lost it. Um, Oh. Uh, yeah. I wanted to ask, do we have data on what kinds of like special education services are um like we're using for kids like across the district? And if so, what programs you mean? Um, like I guess all of it. Um just in terms of um what's the accommodations uh that our kids are needing like if there's an increased percentage of accommodations for test or whatever it is um maybe we can look at changing that across the district uh instead of you know increasing subseppparate classrooms. Does that make sense? Yeah. Not for that specific. You show like trends in like identifica like certain profiles of students. Like we know right now we we are seeing um a huge increase in students that
116require speech services and that is something that's statewide. You know that is a direct result of the pandemic when you think about students um 5 years ago or like when the kids are born. Now we're testing kids at 5 years old and we we see a delay in the speech and that makes sense because that's what was going on at that time. Yeah. We're seeing also increases in students who are externalizers, you know, social emotional um needs that are externalizers. That's a you know, we we can't find seats for students in out of district placements right now for students who have that profile. Um and that's a a statewide I mean uh yeah, statewide issue. Actually, Jen and I have a meeting tomorrow with uh the Northshore. Um, I know this is something an Burman
117has brought up to me many times, but uh, we're meeting with like the local superintendent and special education directors to start talking about how we mobilize around programs and services in a more strategic way. Um and uh how we share supports because you know we're districts are all seeing increases in different profiles and not everybody has the the programming or enough programming both you know could we benefit from taking tuition in from other districts and are there other programs are there uh potential programs in other districts that we could send students to because their programs are better suited for our our kids. I think that's an important conversation. As Elizabeth said, the costs to these collaboratives and private schools are through the roof. So, this is where the districts are trying to mobilize to to
118see whether we can find some efficiencies and improve programming across, you know, the the the districts. Of course, the little districts want the cities to take all their kids, but um you know there's enough big cities in Peody, Beverly right now, Danvers for us to work more collaboratively together around supporting the needs of kids. But we can get you any data you want on on special education profiles if you'd like to see that. Um in fact, Jen hasn't presented here in a while, so we could do that. Um yeah, when you're ready, Jen, um to come and and share that information with you. So, thanks so much. Yeah, just let me know. Send me an email and I'll take it. Manning. Yeah, I I have two questions. Um, do we do do you know off
119the top of your head either either one of you maybe the percentage of special ed students now? It's about 24%. Oh, that is higher. Yeah. Wow. Um, and do we have still in the district and and maybe I'm just hope going to be pleasantly surprised because we used to have a couple of folks particularly one person here for a long time that was um dualcertified both special ed and um the whole bilingual piece and could do uh because there's there's always that tension between is the issue a second language acquisition issue, is it a special ed issue and the and when someone could sort of look at both and officially look at both even and um you know come up with a a decision that you know it was so good to to be able
120to say well we're going to have Christine take a look at this student because the two things we nobody knows where to go with this and do we still have anybody that we do we have actually quite a few of our staff are dy certified that's good um you know and and they have been a huge resource we've also done a lot of um code co-p profofessional development with our ML team. So we've give we've had our ML team come um and do PD through landmark around dually identified students. Um we've also done a lot of work around how do are we looking at a language issue acquisition issue? Are we looking at a disability and really thoughtfully thinking about students and making sure that we're not overidentifying um bilingual students for a disability and
121vice versa. Yeah. Great. Okay. Good news. Thank you. And then just one comment. It sounded like when you were talking about that you're going to meet with the folks from the surrounding districts to talk about way ways to share um because of the expensive resources and that it sort of is another level of what we're talking about looking at our schools um when we're looking at a x number of schools that you're trying to spread. It's the same thing, right, that we're we're talking about. So, be interesting that it's going on in two levels. Yeah, I do think that this is an opport like we need to better work with other districts. We're not um there's I don't think we leverage each other enough uh in terms of supporting, you know, uh common needs. And
122I do think we could do more um in all kinds of programming. And so, um I do think it's an opportunity. It's economies of scale. We're very small districts in Massachusetts. I mean, the cra the crazy thing is even at four almost 4,000 kids, we're you know, we're considered a midsize district in Massachusetts. Anywhere else in the country, we'd be considered a very very tiny place. And so, um I I I don't think we do enough collaboration with other other communities. So, uh there's um opportunities that are and especially when resources are tight, we've got to do more of it. Yeah. And we do take packets in from other districts uh looking at our programs. So the programs that we do have seats in. Um we do regularly take in packets and see if it's
123and see if the student is a good fit because the collaborators are full um and they can't take any more students. So we are one of the only districts that do take that do have some seats uh to take students in and that benefits us. We're able to hire more pair of professionals in some of our programs, maybe a behavior specialist um in order to help support those programs. Any further questions or comments from committee members? I guess I would just ask one like we've raised some things and asked people to get some information and stuff. So, do we need to like what's the next step? Do we need to meet again before we come in for the budget vote on the I mean what's the process? I mean, I would ask that the information
124that was requested be provided by email from the staff to the to committee members. Okay. And then we'll we'll have the opportunity for additional deliberation on that information or anything else. Okay. Um at the meeting on the 28th. Member Cruz. Move to adjurnn. Second. Motion to adjurnn by member Cruz. Seconded by member Miranda. We'll need a roll call vote for this. All in favor. Any opposed? We're adjourned. Thank you everyone. Does anybody