001Um, we already did the pledge, I assume. >> Yes. >> All right, everyone. Okay. If we skip that right now? >> Yes. >> All right. Roll call. >> One minute. I got to switch to this really quick here. Sorry. >> Seeing it's changed. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> [clears throat] >> There we go. Okay. Wonder >> here. >> Van here. Sephus >> here. >> Gardine absent. Anel >> here. >> Dehan >> here. And Hibour >> present. >> All right. Please note as a courtesy of the board members of the audience and the board of education, please silence your cell phones. Public will only be able to speak during public comment if signed up. Do we have anything? All right. Very good. [clears throat] Um, first item, the approval agenda. Can I get a motion? >>
002So moved. Support. >> All those in favor? >> Yes. Opposed? >> Motion passes. Item number two, the consent action agenda. Can I get a motion? >> So moved. >> Support. [laughter] >> All those in favor? >> Yes. Opposed? >> Motion passes. Uh, on to the regular action agenda. The MHSA membership resolution for 2026 2027. Is recommended the board of education approve the Michigan High School Athletic Association membership resolution in order to join the association for 2026 2027 school year. Can I get a motion? >> So moved >> support. So as you probably remember from last year, we do this annually uh with the MHSA. We submit this document. This document allows our teams during the 2627 school year to participate in the tournaments. Uh any questions about this document? Nope. All right. Anything? All those
003in favor? >> Yes. >> Opposed? Motion passes. Uh 3B, the 2025 2026 final budget amendment. Um, it is recommended the board of education approve uh the resolutions within the 2025 2026 final budget booklet as presented for the following funds. General fund, food service fund, student activity fund, capital projects fund/syncing fund, and capital projects fund 2022 bond fund. Can I get a motion? >> Moved support. >> All right. Okay. Anything? Nothing. >> Okay. Questions? >> I don't have anything on the final. >> I'm saving them. >> All those in favor? >> Yes. >> Opposed? >> Motion passes. Uh on the 3C, the 2026 2027 budget adoption is recommended the board of education approve the resolutions within 2026 2027 budget booklet as presented at the budget hearing on June 1st 2026 for the following funds. General fund,
004food service fund, student activity fund, capital projects fund, syncing fund, capital projects fund 2024 bond fund, and the debt fund uh which is information only. It is further recommended the mills to be levity on properties located within the Granville public school district will be general fund 18 uh on all non-homestead properties. Uh capital projects funds fund 1.3433 mills on all properties a headly roll back from 1.4 mills and debt fund of 5.05 mills on all properties. Can I get a motion? >> It's moved. >> Support discussion. >> Okay. And else you have any questions, >> Heather? >> Yes. >> You know what my number one question is, right? Why are we at 6.5? I'm Let Let me Let me give you more in depth as to my thoughts. We have board policy 3202. I mean,
005did we do that as a guideline? A policy is a policy. We know and I'm I'm going to tell you I can't say what I said ver verbatim when we found out about the 31A funds but that's what it's there for. But to do that every year is a disservice. I mean we're all about stewardship here. We need to make sure that we're taking care of this district and we oversee the district. Um, I'm uncomfortable with anything below seven completely across the board. I'm not I mean, I'm I'm just there. I'm not I'm not going to change my position. Um, I understand you may not have had the time to do everything based on how everything's shaking out in Lancing versus what we have in front of us. Um I from my perspectives I'm just
006going to say we always say we're a destination district. So, is getting and eating away our fund balance one of the requirements of that or is it because we're being really good stewards and I think we just need to strive more to get back to basics and I understand uh the discussion the commentary on the positions Are there other areas that can be defunded? Because this is the time we're we're living at the bottom of the bell curve. Comes around about every 8 n years and we're st we're down here about every 3 4 years. And um I guess I'm I'm disheartened at that fund balance percentage. So >> um >> I'll listen now. >> I think this isn't going to make you feel better, but based on what I know, I didn't feel comfortable
007bringing you something at just over seven and then it not coming to fruition. Right. I've tried to be conservative and not overly conservative, but I wanted I wanted it to be truthful. I wanted it to be out there. I want you to be able to see it. So, that's where we're at. Um, I know historically I feel like I've been pretty good at being transparent and accurate and landing where I think we're going to land. Um, but there are there are a lot of unknowns right now. One of the things that if you will that we didn't see coming was we had three people resend their retirements. That's a different ballgame because we would have been able to do something even if we had to replace those positions we would have replaced them at [clears
008throat] somebody lower on the scale. Mhm. >> Mhm. >> So the when like those are the things that >> we have no control over, right? And I I do understand other areas we we probably do, but I just want I just wanted to be very clear [clears throat] how razor thin we are. And I Yeah. >> Hey Bob, >> like I said, it's not going to make you feel better. And I >> I'd rather have the transparency and the truth >> and the honest discussion. You know, that's the way I am. I do. Yeah. >> So, if you put a 31A in there, you are all of a sudden and we're not having this conversation. I I just >> Why are we carrying it though? >> What's that? >> Why would we even carry over
009a 31A if we're not going to take it? >> Well, I don't believe they're saying they're not going to take it. They just don't know the parameters yet. And so what Heather's telling you is by showing you this, this is your worst case scenario. Um, she's being very transparent about that in case they said, "No, we're not we're not doing anything different." The odds of that are pretty slim. I'm I'm telling you, they're very slim. And um I I I think they more than likely wind up taking that money. Um, but she could have included it and you wouldn't we wouldn't even be having this conversation. But she's just trying to be transparent. So, but I what I heard you say it sounded like they weren't going to take it. I don't think they've decided
010that. >> That's all I want to say. My my my take is okay, we already know the situation with 31A and um unless the legislature does something and I know you got to gamble with politics. >> Yep. >> Gambling with politics is I don't know. I don't I don't play the poly market. So, um >> but that's why I think it's not in there >> and I understand that. I understood that. I listen. Would you say it's better than 50% chance that it you're >> I would I I think it'll change. I I think if they don't change the language and they have yet another year of the same thing that they just had, I mean, you you had a majority of your districts not take that money. That money went to other districts who
011now can't even use it and now it's going I mean spend it all because they got so much and now it's it's going back. You're in a campaign year. If you weren't in a campaign year, I'd say I don't know. But I I'm I think there's a better chance that they will change the language. they'll define what it is and it'll be certain parameters that you know I I think our district and other districts will be able to say okay we can do that >> we're not going to be able to claw back those funds they're not going to give those out they're going to reappropriate them because that's what Lancing does >> um there's [clears throat] two different yeah I understand current year and last year >> I get I'm only looking And I
012know you are. I I know you are. I'm not living in yesterday, >> right? >> I'm not >> um it it's still to the point of we're we're not getting back to basics. We're not You're trying to You've got to be holding on to some programming that may not be necessary. And I think we're at the bottom of the bell curve again. And I think this is my third or fourth time I've been in this situation. So, you know what? You don't like listening to me when I say this stuff, but the truth is it's it's not going to be all unicorns and sunshine coming up next year. This is something everybody's got to dig out of, especially even on the federal level and how those things are attached. >> So, and yeah, they play
013games in Lancing. We all know that. But I would rather I I would rather not hedge on what could come and not whittle down that fund balance. So I don't think you're ready for this question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. What is our expense if it's interest? Because now at this level we will be borrowing to be able to pay bills. Will we not? >> We will not need to borrow at this level. No, >> we [clears throat] when we were when we were below the 5% we didn't borrow. >> We will not need to borrow at this level. We made structural changes to when we pay our staff. It's the 8th and the 23rd. It's the 23rd because that's the latest we can receive our state aid payment. We have a 100%
014summer tax. So that helps offset the month of it September where we don't get a state aid payment. Right. There are other I don't get me wrong, I don't want to go back there because I do remember holding a couple of large bills and then overnighting them to make sure that we had the funds to do that. So, you're right. I don't want to get back in that spot. Um, but at this level, no, we will not need to borrow. Besides that, >> those applications are already due. So >> um we wouldn't be able to do it for the 26 27 year anyway. >> So what so what percentage does that have to be? >> But you have to watch your cash flow on that. And so cash flow is slightly different right than fund
015balance. >> so it sounds like if you were closer to 5% you would have to really >> there's a chance you would might have to borrow. >> Correct. >> So so this isn't good. Everyone knows that right? Everyone can agree this isn't good right where we're at. Um the question I have right and maybe to piggyback on Bob a little bit right even if we had the 31A >> Mhm. >> we're still only at 7 07 was that what it was fund balance >> the if you get the Yeah. I didn't >> still just slightly above seven right now or something. If you got the 31A for 2627 800 and some thousand dollar that they said you're at now you're at um a $300,000 surplus for this coming school for the 2627 school year approximately.
016>> Again, still razor thin in terms of like I would like to continue to add back more but at best like you said it's a little over break even >> right >> with the 31A. So the question that I have again trying to build on that is okay so that's a slow incremental build that you look at some of those other you know years on there right we were going from six to to 7 to 8 to nine right that kind of build isn't getting us there that quickly right you knowund couple hundred thousand every year isn't getting us back to where we want to get to 10 I mean that's going to take us forever right to get back to 10%. Am I wrong? I don't know the numbers well enough. >> If if
017you keep adding 100,000. So, so what gets us to the next increments that we want to get to to get to that quicker that 10% quicker. >> Does that make sense what I'm asking? >> I think imagine we we started talking as a team. >> Um we need to look going in and planning ahead for 2728 how we restructure how we do our intervention and potentially restructure how we do some of the behavior support pieces that we have. We've built something really great over the course of time and we want to continue again to provide those supports going forward, but we're going to have to look at that really closely at 2728, seeing what other districts are using, how they're using those funds, which ways they're doing it, and we're going to have to reallocate
018how we make that happen. Um, because that's an area where, Bob, to your point, we probably need to pull back into that a little bit, but we don't want to throw the baby out with bath water if we don't have to. And so that's a piece where we've got to really dig into that for that coming year, right? The other thing that can help us is when we get back into be negotiating contracts again next year. So if we can get a two or a three-year agreement, we get a two or a three-year agreement. It's a little easier to look down the road and say, "All right, so here's what we have in year one. We know this is what it's going to be in year two. We know this is what it's going to
019be in year three." And we can we can work our way through that piece of it. We're further reducing on the the the cleaning side of it. We've had one company come and talk to us about potentially doing a third party for some of our other positions that might save us a little bit of money. Um, obviously we're reducing the supports that we're doing at the administrative side of things. Um, those are all the pieces that we've got to start getting better at. We've got to take the year to really dig into those for that 2728. So to your point, yeah, we don't build it back to 10% at 1 to2 to $300,000 a year. We don't. So, um, don't take this wrong. >> Your desire to hold on to this behavior process. M um
020if you were to go back and reinstitute maybe an older way, have you looked at what you would save? >> I'm going back to my statement of back [clears throat] to basics, John. >> Yeah, >> that's where I'm at. Y >> I I'll be very I think you figured it out. I I can't approve this budget. >> I can't not in the current not not with this current fund balance. >> But Bob um I'm curious what you mean by back to basics, right? What do you define as basics? Because I mean when I when I hear that, right, and this is just my own bias and I'll say it right. When I hear that, it to me it intimates that we're doing something so outside the norm that it's wasteful. Right. So, and and and
021it may be part of what you mean, but I'm just trying to understand what what programs are you talking about that you were saying, "Hey, we need to get rid of to >> I I don't know. I'm just curious." >> I don't know specifically PBIS, SEAL, the things that we're paying [clears throat] aids and other things to do. um you know, you're going to get to a point where you're just going to increase class size. And if a teacher had a difference between maybe that or class size, I think they wouldn't pick class size. You know, you you it's it's getting back to the traditional how do you handle behavior issues. You know, when COVID occurred, we had an abundance of funds and we uh invested in a lot of these programs that I agree
022you want to hold on to them. That's fine. I agree that you want to. I don't agree that we need to. Not with this fund balance amount. >> So, that's what I talk about. So, you're you're tracking with me perfectly, Jason. That's what I was going after. you know >> what are programs that we still hang on to that came about during co >> so since co we added um intervention teachers every one of our elementary buildings to help continue to build that structure for our kids that are in the tier 2 and tier three side of things we also added coaches in every one of our buildings K12 to help do some of those small groups for kids that when we listen to and talk to them about where they're at like managing their
023own emotions managing their behaviors where you can put them into small groups and be able to support them. Um those are a lot of the things that we added during that time because coming out of that that space we saw a large increase in the way that students were able to kind of self-regulate, right? And so we're trying to figure out how do we help a support that self-regulation because they don't have that they can't learn the content. And so it's trying to find that balance between where is that minimal level of support that you can give in those areas both academically and behaviorally at the K12 level and still be able to have your kids move forward academically and get to the rest of the highest potential. Right. And that that's a part that
024is really difficult from a school standpoint to try to find that balance to work. And that's to your point, Bob, that's what we we need to start looking into at a much more in-depth level going into the coming year to see, okay, we're going to have to do this very differently if we're going to maintain it because it's not sustainable long term. >> And it was never meant, it wasn't sustainable. USSR [clears throat] funds >> were a gift and you I know, granted, >> y >> I'm not going to say you guys didn't manage them well. Yep. >> We we put >> we did what with that money what it should have been should have been done with it. >> We put it into people to support kids >> at that time. There were districts
025who didn't who are sitting on very fat fund balances who quite honestly will probably end up uh having to pay very uh big salaries to their staffs because they didn't put their money into those things. So, >> but it it it came from the federal government and and it it can't be sustainable on our own. We have not been we're not self-reliant. >> Yeah. >> I look at my fund balance, it says I'm not self-reliant. So, you got to you got to look to cut somewhere and hopefully as [clears throat] you do it as painlessly as possible, but a cut no cut is not every cut's painful. >> I get that. >> Sorry. >> No, that's okay. My my was going to say if if we' had the 31A this year that we had budgeted
026[clears throat] for because that was something that we have regularly used to help support those programs, we're fine. we wouldn't be out of this. >> But we didn't cut, we didn't cut security, we didn't remove nurses, we didn't remove all of those services that we have tied in to those funds because we need our security guards to make sure our kids are safe. We need our nurses to make sure that the medical needs of our kids are met and they're logging in that C4S now and we're going to look at some revenue that comes in from there. And so we don't want to we don't want to offload anyone that's logging in C4S before we start to understand what the impact of that revenue coming in might be. And that's we're not going to know
027be able to really predict that until the fall because we haven't had the volume of people logging in that space. And that's why I say from a revenue standpoint, I know we're going to see some revenue. I just don't know what it is. If if we need to make cuts mid year, if we need to drive our way backward because we can't do this and we can't do this and we can't do this and we're in worst case scenario, that's something that we're going to have to look at. >> That was the question I was going to ask. The 31A, >> we should know if we're going to get that or not. October, November. >> We should hopefully hopefully we'll know by the end of July, right? because and I am going to say end
028of July now because there was a comment made by an individual on the legislative level that said basically that they weren't going to get it done. And I think that again is just a a negotiation tactic. But um yeah, I would say by the end of July, early August, we should know if we're able to accept those or not because that means that they will have approved a state aid budget. Right. So, we'll know that before the school year starts or should if they move forward, which I think they will. They want to get out and get into the election piece. >> Does the I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> Go ahead. >> No, you go ahead. >> I was just going to say what is the likelihood you you had started to go there that
029if if the funding doesn't come in that we could start making cuts throughout the school year? >> Yeah, we'd have to >> to get to this 7% or or more. >> Yeah, we'd have to. And like I said, we're razor thin in our classrooms, >> right? And so those those reductions are going to have will end up coming in those non-classroom places. Um then we'll have to we've never um we've consistently looked especially at kindergarten enrollment too. We'll have a better idea. Um, and I think with the exception of a year ago, maybe even two years ago, we've at last minute added kindergarten. I we're not going to be doing that. And I know that's not popular. I I understand that that class sizes in some areas have increased, but overall to pay the overload
030is less than adding staff to teach 17 kids. when you're >> you know when your case load is 24 [snorts] >> does what data points pardon me what do you have data points that still support the use of seal and for um the other interventionists I'm assuming there's a lot of data that supports that >> the [clears throat] amount I know that teachers are encouraged to track behavior problems on their um >> through data collection right Yep. >> And [clears throat] I'm assuming that that still is being supported for the use of that money for the seal people that we have in place. >> Yes. I mean, we have all the data that says that we're making great strides in those places. We also have evidence that says that we lean on our tier 2
031a little more heavily than we should and it takes us out of the tier one side of things. And that's kind of Bob's point of when you say we've got to get back to basics. We have some evidence that tells us we lean too heavily on our tier 2 supports. So it it impacts the work that we're doing at the tier one level. And so those are things that we've got to look at now that we have that evidence and that data. We've got to look at that really closely and say, "All right, so if we're leaning too heavily on these tier 2 supports that we created, if the tier 2 supports are carrying us through, but the tier one isn't shifting in the midst of that." We talked a lot about that during my
032um my interview. That's an area that we've really got to dig in and drive into that. At the same time, you still have to have some system of support in and around behavior, social emotional learning, and academic intervention to make sure that you're giving the support where it's needed, particularly at the K6 level. >> So, I would imagine, you know, if we're looking at increased class sizes, the incidences of behavioral issues interrupting learning is probably, I'm guessing, going to increase. and to not and not to have those supports available for when you have a very crowded classroom and one teacher dealing with all of that. That's going to be kind of a crisis or flash point too. >> Yeah. I mean potentially we I don't know when I started in 2003 [clears throat] >> I
033had pretty big class sizes and we didn't have a lot of that stuff but kids needs were different then right expectations of school districts were a little different >> and that's true. I've had huge classes that no problems, small classes riddled with it. It just depends. >> Yep. >> And so that that's the part where we need to get we need to be able to support where we can support >> um but not lean so heavily into our tier 2 that it takes the place of tier one >> instruction. and and we are finding even though we have success in those areas, there's there's evidence that indicates that we're leaning too heavily on our tier 2 to carry our tier one and we we've got to figure that piece out. Are we seeing that the
034students that are entering now like the kindergarten first, second grade, you know, in recent years, do they have it need have as much need for support as what the kids did coming out of co? I mean, is it is it going backwards like in those grade grade grade grade levels or is it >> we haven't we haven't seen a significant shift toward precoid kindergarten and first grade behavior yet, but we're still coming out of that for our littles. >> Yeah. And so last year, if I can jump in, they just published some data. I saw it today about our highest numbers ever uh of preschool enrollment uh through GSRP and the move toward universal preschool. So the hope would be that now that we're back and increasing those experiences, the the theory was that during
035co people pulled back on those and so when they entered kindergarten, they hadn't had those foundational experiences yet. So in the next couple of years, we we should see if those [clears throat] things start to change. >> I have two questions. >> Yeah. >> First one is is there any other fallout to keeping our fund balance percentage at 650? What what are what are the ramifications of that in the future? So in in the over the next coming year I do think that that is worstc case scenario is the 6.5 >> doesn't affect any >> you're you're saying like a rating or [clears throat] a bond >> rating because we so the reason we had good yeah the reason we had that rating call um was because of the elections that we passed the syncing
036fund etc. We're not going to be scheduled for another rating call with Moody's until we go back out for something. If we determine that we we can go back out for something. >> Okay. So, there's no real issue there then. Um, >> no. >> Then is this just a matter of do we need to change a board policy if this happens? Anybody know that? >> Why have a board policy then? I mean, we put it there. I I'm I'm questioning it. We put it there and >> I think the the thought process between having that in policy was that we needed to alert you of the fact that hey this is going to happen. And I think also it gives that feedback of getting the back to the basics and looking and defining programs more
037granularly that may be able to be cut back on. And then we take that as here's kind of our walking orders, which I think we've tried to come to you and say, "Yeah, we we need to do this and we need your support when when we look at reducing certain areas." So, or and or the opposite, you know, when class sizes are increased cuz yeah, that does impact and sometimes it impacts some but not all, right? Um, I think I know when when we first talked about the fund balance percentage and I know it's been years ago. Um, I thought that was kind of the thought process and the ramification of it. I I could be wrong and maybe we need to show exactly how it's written, but that's that's kind of what >> it
038was designed it was designed to alert you that I mean, you made a statement that you do not want it to go below seven. If it goes below seven, that the the district administration needed to make a plan to get back above seven. Correct. >> Yeah. >> And and I hear Heather saying that's what they're doing. >> They're telling you worst case scenario it's below seven and they have a plan to get it back there. When in fact if 31A is changed, it would already be back there. But yet that does not change the approach they need to have moving forward with this budget >> until the funding is no longer there because of some other thing. >> Well, and we're but I think that's the thing that I think and John would agree with
039me even if we get the 31A, >> we're still looking at these things, >> right? >> So, >> I understand that, >> but and and two like I guess like outside of these walls, right? when sometimes when we do make those tough decisions, you're going to hear things >> that people may not be supportive of, right? And >> but just remembering that all of the things that we have discussed and the importance of the why. >> Y >> um >> I'm going to say this again. I'm gonna say this again and I I I'll say it as many times as I have to say it. Heather, I think based on 25 years of being here, you are by far the best we've had in this position. I respect you. I I value your statement. If
040statements like that come out, I either talk to the superintendent or I try and understand more about it. But you're between a rock and a hard place and I know that. And um you know I'm I'm sorry if you know I offended in any way, >> but I think you appreciate the fact that you'd rather have it straight for me. >> Mhm. because I mean I I'm I'm here as a steward. >> So the wording in that is interesting where it says the unassigned funds and then you showed us a bunch of in-out uh dollars when you were looking at the general fund and the percentages. The wording in that policy >> is unassigned funds. Unassigned general funds, right? So when you show those in and out, are those defined as assigned? So they shouldn't
041be counted? I I was just trying to understand a little bit more about why you know that wording because again it's very interesting. I I didn't quite understand the wording in that policy as well as why we showed that >> because those like you said yes they're in and out and so you they're they're very restricted. They're restrictive and what they do is they inflate >> your your overall number >> they inflate your total >> your total number and so yeah when you if you don't exclude those >> Yeah. >> or if you exclude those Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. I mean I'm sorry. Yeah. If you exclude them then it bumps it up. And so >> so what was the purpose of saying unassigned funds >> when Okay. >> Yeah. Just just I'm trying
042to understand. >> I don't know when you walked in at that point but >> sorry about it. Don't worry about it. It's a test. Maybe you did that. So that Why are we listening? Um it's it's it's unassigned because there's no there's there's no expense tied to that particular fund. It's a free fund. It's extra. So it's unassigned. I think that's a simple way of saying that. >> So those restricted dollars, those are considered signed funds. Are those part of the signed funds? when when they look at it from an audit perspective um your deficit is um your unassigned funds basically. >> So those in-n-out are those in-n-outs assigned funds. the in and outs. I I [clears throat] guess no because they're not available like what Bob is saying, they're not available dollars to spend,
043>> right? >> But that's why you took them out and you showed us the remainder of the budget showed us at a >> correct above. So they would not >> they would be essentially they would essentially be assigned because you can only use them for those purposes. So they are not >> So So then if we look at it, what were we at with 6.83? What was it for 2026 2027 without >> throw this back over here so we can all see it? >> Slide 11. >> So yes, when you're adjusted, >> okay, >> which would mean you've removed those that are assigned. >> Okay. So is that what we're saying then is as unassigned we're still at 7.13 cuz you removed your assigned funds right >> correct you >> so with unassigned that's why
044I'm just understand we're trying to understand >> we're playing with numbers here you're playing with numbers because historically that's fine >> and I'm just saying but then that's why I show it like that cuz >> historically that's what we've >> we have said >> as a percentage of expenses we have always done that the number you D that's the number you see when it's ever summarized. >> Okay. I was just trying to understand the particularities of that work. >> No, you weren't here during that. >> Yeah, >> I [clears throat] don't think you were. >> Question. So, just based on the assumptions with the contracts are those are we like >> are those pretty much finalized now? So, we have a good idea that like the budgeted amount for expenses or can we maybe expect
045some changes? the I am confident we won't have any additional changes beyond what's there. Okay. >> So, we >> we talked when I worked with both EAS related to it. They have to take it to a group that's called MABO. >> That's kind of their OPEC for lack of a better term of people that kind of they're schools that come together and say here's what our minimums are going to be and it's got to pass they got to have it kind of pass that space. >> Um and then they have to have it pass their membership. their membership has to approve it. I was holding off on their membership approving it before I bring it to the board. The intent is to bring it to the board at our next meeting. I should be able
046to do that. >> Uh but when I talked with our both of our EA presidents, they needed they needed the time to >> to present where they were, right? Okay. because it's it's less than a cost of living increase for their group and they're just trying to figure out how do they work their way forward and and and try to understand how they landed there with their group. Um but I anticipate that'll get passed by the group. I anticipate I'll be able to bring just that okay >> to the board in June. I don't anticipate >> any dramatic changes to that. >> Okay. Okay. >> Just the that increase that percent increase gets applied across the board. So that was the we kind of settled those out late last week with both groups. Okay, which
047finally gave us an opportunity to say okay so now we really truly think we can understand our full expenses. >> It was about the time that we had started talking about some of the administrative roles in addition to what we had already kind of reduced. um it allowed us to land a little more closely and we understood who our retirees were and which positions we had to fill and which ones we didn't have to fill and how we could slide those around. Um because the difference in that AP site between posting it and not posting it, it's about 60 grand. >> Um even if you just hire a brand new teacher, it's about 65 grand actually total cost. And so we would have been 65 grand less of expenditure but we needed to do it.
048So >> okay. [laughter] Also, so we talked a little bit about sort of looking at more of those sort of instructional costs even though it's sort of seal and some of that. But that kind of goes in that sort of area. I'm curious about if you could just provide because I I did see there were kind of reductions across the board and I appreciate how you sort of took that approach because I know it's hard. Are there areas that you're considering more non-instructional studentf facing cost you know areas where you might be able to cut some funds? Um I mean I know everybody loves all and we have great programming. We have great extracurriculars and and all of those, but are there areas that we might be able to draw back a bit? >> Yeah.
049So, um uh we're looking at transportation routes. >> Okay. >> We're looking at droponies for certain athletic events. >> Okay. >> Um I um you know, I live in a different district. Um, and I played my counterpart here in soccer, him and I out on the field, right? We played each other against each other. >> Good question. [laughter] >> Um, and at at Byron and afterwards he was like, "Wait, you guys are drop only?" And I was like, "Yeah, well, how long have you been drop only?" Well, we've been drop only since my kids started high school. And they I think they were drop only before that as well. Um, you know, and I I had a baseball player, a soccer player. Um, we unfortunately got bumped from the okay red to the okay green.
050I only say that because I love when we could play against Granville and my kids had a lot of friends on travel teams from other districts in the OK red. Um, and we go to Grand Haven, we're drop only for baseball. >> Like that's a hike from Calonia. So, I mean, we're looking at all of that now. Okay. >> Um we're we would try to slow roll that as much as we could. Right. Exactly. >> Pun intended, but >> um so we're looking at that. Um uh there was another area you said non-instructional and we've we've made some non-instructional cuts already, >> right? >> Um custodial on the custodial side, we're talking through uh reducing our gate quarters. Um in a lot of our buildings, we have, you know, we two or three or four
051people at some of our elementary buildings. We already reduced seven positions starting in April. We'll probably reduce another seven. That's should talk about like shrinking the summertime hours that we have there. >> So, that's a part of it. Um >> we are going to more intentionally use the funds that our parents raise athletically. >> Yeah. So, if you have a group of a group of parents that raise a bunch of money on the athletic side, before we pull into that athletic budget, which comes out of our general fund, we're going to be saying, "Look, you need to use the activity fund. You have parents that raise the money right now, use the money right now." >> Because we had some of those budgets that >> were starting to grow, right? We have we do fantastic
052work in around our student assistance funds. So, we're starting to say, how can we utilize those in an even more direct way for our kids, which again layers out some of that general fund cost in other places. >> Um, so we started looking at all of those things and without we don't want to get to a place like we talked about copies before, right? And it hit the it hit the fan when we did. Um the reality is if everybody cut like we had talked about if everybody cut like 25% of their copies so at the elementary level it was like one per kid per day and at the high school level it was one per kid per week. One piece of paper we could save $100,000 a year. >> Mhm. >> In copy costs,
053right? So there there are some really specific things that that we can do. Um but we don't want to put a limit on the number of copies that people can get. Right? cuz when I started I could do 100 copies a month. That was my limit and anything beyond that I had to go pay for it. Um you know we don't want to get to that point but we have to find those reductions. We're looking at continuing to reduce the number of subs that we have for district related time. We made a huge reduction in the number of days that we had there this year. We're going to continue to look at that again for next year to pull back on the district related sub times so that we keep our teachers in our classes
054and we're not paying that additional sub rate as a part of that. Right? We're talking about lowering our sub rate. Even if we lower it by$5 or $10 per day, the amount of money that that can save us over time, even even though like we want our folks to show up, but at the same time, if if the difference between >> having somebody maybe show up as a sub or having our teachers, our paras, our student supports in the right spaces, that's a place where we can look at that that piece as well. Yeah. >> And there are lots of avenues where we can get sub permits and things like that for teachers in or excuse me for hourly employees inside of our district that have 60 credits or more. They can slide into those
055spaces and they get paid the regular rate or the increase rate for sub rate depending on what's greater but it still saves us time and money on that side of it too. So all of those things are >> going in [clears throat] part and parcel of of the things that we're doing. we uh needed to replace one of our pickups this year and we said nope, sorry, we're not replacing the pickup this year. Um like it's those kinds of things that we're we're looking at every pocket of dollars that we have >> um to save as many jobs as we can because our most valuable resource are our people and we've got to do everything that we can to keep our people with our kids and still provide that great service that we provide to
056our to our community. >> Yeah, it's tough. I mean like I think Unfortunately, it kind of looks like this downturn in terms of funding is is probably going to be here for a bit. Um, I'm not seeing any positive news that we're going to see things go up. Um, but, you know, at the same time, I think our families in the district also understand. I think everybody's, you know, things are getting much more expensive. Um, so but I appreciate giving us the the worst case scenario, but yeah, trying to I think it makes sense to to try and find where we can cut um over time. >> Yep. >> As opposed to to having kind of an emergency cut. So >> Joe, you said you had two questions. I think you only got one. Oh,
057I I got them both. The change the policy. Do we need to change the policy then? >> I got it. Okay. >> 6.5. >> Yeah, I got it. >> Whatever. But sounds like we can keep it at seven. >> Felt like we missed your second one. Sorry. >> It's all right. >> What from your experience, Bob? Just cuz I'm curious. From your experience, what turns it around? Like you say, it's a bell curve and we're down. What turns around? Or Roger, you've been around for a long time, too. >> Seven years. has been through it three times just like he has >> in different places. So >> pretty much it's the economy. Um uh the first major downturn was when the school aid fund was tapped into or allowed to be tapped into by higher
058education and then they took about almost 20% of what was in there for them. you know, and you look at a college or university that's got millions and hundreds of millions and billions of dollars in endowment that is not us, right? You know, and they're they're not really controlled. Um it's typically the economy and um job creation, right? uh the how how well things are expensive things and then what's the job market like is there growth in any partic overall in the state in every particular area whether it's large manufacturing or small business and as that ramps up and you and you have government policies that sort of strive to build business and to put money in people's pockets um then the growth comes and it's usually usually about 2 years after that that you
059start going up the bell curve. You're about halfway up the bell curve, but it's about a seven or eight year and you're down four to five years, you're down at the bottom. And I think we've hit our lowest and I but we're still at the bottom. But it's that's really it. Um because when you look at revenue, you know, for me, you know, and there's a lot of people that talk about, oh, you know, uh they're going after property taxes, right? They want to get rid of that some um candidates. Well, increase the sales tax. Just increase the sales tax. That'll take care of a lot of that stuff, right? Um so it's the economy. It's the economy. I actually think next year um will be a little better than this year, but again, I
060think it's two years away, but Michigan needs to grow. You know, we're not a growth state. How many people have left this state? You know, it's you look at you look at Florida and Texas for the love of God. You know, they spend a lot of money on schools because they can because they've got that revenue. And Florida's getting rid of their property taxes. I think they just passed that. >> So, it's all sales tax. >> Yeah. I So, I've been through it three times. [clears throat] uh 2000s uh 2000 to 2010 right in there was terrible. We were laying people off every year. >> Um you were trying, you know, and and the key is when it goes like this, try to make it go like this. I mean, so it's not not as
061deep and and try, you know, you have to get creative and and that's the swing we're in right now. That's why you're hearing them talk about, >> you know, you're looking at everything, you're evaluating everything, you're trying to get creative in how can you provide the best services possible, yet you're at a time where you you don't have that revenue to go, "Yeah, we could do that. Yeah, we could try that." It's more like, "How can we just, you know, make it the best?" And and realize for the last couple years, we have been cutting significant amounts. It's just through attrition we've been fortunate. [clears throat] We've had a lot of people retire and this year we don't have that. We don't have that big number and therefore you're having to get even more creative.
062Um which which is what we're trying to do here. So >> and earlier when our fund balance when Heather showed the fund balance getting low um Ron wanted to do a lot of uh investment, right? It went into fiber. We win it. I mean, we did things that were supposed to set us up, and I believe that they actually did, but it was incredibly painful. And if I get ugly, it's because I've been through it. I hate going through it. And I will tell you, the most deceptive time was 2009. And so, right, you got banks, you know, we didn't know what was doing. And then the one thing that came out of Obama, which was such bull, was we got shovel ready jobs. We got shovel ready money. If you got shovel ready projects,
063we're going to give you hundreds of millions of dollars. It only happened with their pet areas. So so much money and energy went into that stuff and I'm going to say it's it's a small percentage of school districts nationwide that actually saw any of that money. So it was a boondoggle and it was so disappointing. So and I think what extended at this time was co I think we would have hit it earlier if we didn't have those ESSR funds coming in >> for so long. We were doing some things just before we could sense that it was happening and then CO hit and then those those funds came in and like I said, >> we put our money into our people to support our kids during that time and that and we added a
064lot of positions. You're right. During that time to support kids. Um and some some people didn't do that. They they didn't do it. And so there are fund balances that are very different right now. I sleep well at night knowing we put our money into our kids cuz that's where it was supposed to go. >> Um but you know we are where we are because in and you're in a situation where you have to get creative with the support you have because your core instruction right now your classrooms you're you know you're you're at limits in a lot of places. Um, so you can't do anything there. It's going to have to be figuring out what supports are giving you the biggest bang for the buck and going with those and the other ones you'll
065have to probably cut over time. And hopefully that's not a, you know, if you can get creative and some things can happen, you can not [clears throat] do that as deep as we've had to in some eras of this. >> When when I was first on the board, Mipers was 8%. >> Yeah. >> Scary, isn't it? Going back to something Jason said though, you like in terms of trying to get to a 10% fund balance, you'd have to make bigger reductions, but it doesn't seem like that's something that we would really want to entertain either. It seems like we'd want to if we're in the bell curve that comes up, we'd want to be trying to stay around the 7% so that we keep the the programming I guess as as good as we can
066for the >> Well, and I think yeah, if we stayed at 7%, I mean, if the funding comes back, we get to 8% without changing anything or we get to 10% without changing anything. >> So, that becomes the the I hate to stay the game chicken, right? But it's like it's like I mean >> that's exactly what it is. >> Yeah. It's it's [laughter] I mean, listen, we we have these conversations all the time in the private sector, too, right? No one wants to cut staffing because you don't know if you're going to be able to get that staffing back, right? I mean, and so it's like that's one of the last things you want to do because if you can if you've got good staff, you want to hold on to them as long
067as you possibly can. How where can I cut every scent from every other spot before I go there? >> Um, now having said that, you know, again, I do think, you know, we are a lot of things to a lot of people, right? And I think we have a lot of programming that we do, right? And a lot of extracurriculars, a lot of other things. And I don't know, I don't know if that is a small fraction of of the whole budget, right? And it's like, h it's you know, you're chasing, you know, you're you're tripping over dollars, you know, to get to pennies, right? Um or if there's something there. I I don't know. I I just don't know the budget well enough to say, yeah, hey, there's opportunities there that we may have
068to, you know, get rid of our truck driving school. I I don't know what it is, right? I mean, um, >> we're not rerunning our aeronautics program this year, right? So, I mean, we we can't we can't hold that up. And so, a lot of those programming things we're already pulling back on and kind of >> getting closer to where we were 10 years ago. But again, as [clears throat] much as we can hold on to and try to find that balance depending on where that revenue stream is available to find us. 31A we doubleA we should know by the end of summer. The other pieces we should know by early to midfall under the Medicare side. >> We'll have a much better sense of what the revenue side is. And if we have additional
069areas that we've got to make reductions, we will do that. >> And sometimes we see resignations before school starts >> August. So you never know there either. >> What is the trade-off? I mean, between someone that's ready, ready to retire and uh uh uh someone new, you said $60,000 about you about the cost, right? Is it a $60,000 swing >> at the end of the day between the retirement and the salary and and what the new person's coming in or >> what what I utilize is because you've given us the authority to not go above a MA7. So, conservative savings are always probably around $45,000 because when people are leaving, they're >> they're well over a hundred. So, >> um, >> so yeah, that's >> if we can hire if you end up hiring a
070year one or year two teacher, you gain another >> 15 to $18,000, whether they have a bachelor's degree or master's degree. >> And it's conservative because I don't know if they're coming in and they need full family health insurance. So, I always budget for that, which again, there's another if you you're going from 22,000 at full family that the district's incurring costs for down to nine. >> Mhm. >> Per single. So, Understand? Okay. >> Well, I know I don't look it, but I was raised in a Dutch family, so I appreciate how frugal and how you're trying to cut all the corners as much as possible. I can hear it. Um, and I guess I just want to say that as we continue on, I I'm so glad that we're really prioritizing the fact that
071our staff who, you know, you look at the graduates we had this year, tremendous group of students, they didn't get there by themselves. They got there [clears throat] because we had tremendous staff behind them all the way. And we want to keep them here. So, I know it's a fine line. I get it. But that's got to also weigh in there as well that we keep them incentivized to stay with this district. >> A lot of discussion. Thank you everybody. >> Any other questions? [clears throat] >> All right. Uh voting on 3C. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Opposed? >> No. >> Motion passes. Uh 3D the recommendation for assistant superintendent for human resources. It is recommended the board of education approve Michael Gelme as the new assistant superintendent for human resources
072in combination with the his with his central elementary principal duties. Can I get a motion? >> So moved support. >> Now the tough questions. I thought that was bad. [laughter] So, um, we had a couple internal candidates, uh, the cabinet and myself met with them. Uh, over the last three years, Mike has completed his specialist degree. Uh, he's working toward his doctorate. Um, cuz he thinks maybe when he's all done with his gig, he might want to go support kids in college and do some things there. Um, we're going to tell him that's like 10, 12 years down the road, maybe. uh um that that's an area where he he really wants to jump in. He uh two years ago said like tell me about this HR deal like it might be something I'm interested
073in. So I had him come in uh to negotiations uh this past year and just help kind of sit in. It was a twofold benefit for me. Number one, he brought that elementary lens from an administrative side to the negotiation process which was really great. Um but he has such a great experience having come in um from Hamilton and then working at TK as a principal of a 400 student elementary building with one pair of pro and no assistants or any of those things and what's that >> 500 kids. Sorry, don't want to underell that for you. [laughter] >> [clears throat] >> but just just a wealth of experience coming into to the district from that space and has done a fantastic job at Central. And so as he and I kind of talked about
074what does this look like going into next year, um obviously it allows us to save on the expense side because we're not going to be replacing that central principal rule um at least within the next year. And so he and I talked about like what are the things that he can grab and start to learn and grow in and what are some of the things that because I've been doing it for eight years that I can kind of do on clockwork especially with my fantastic assistant Kim. I call her the queen of HR cuz she is um between her and I we can kind of do a lot of those those support roles and some of those pieces to try to help get that piece there. And Mike also the the SK secretary at Central
075has transferred to Cummings because that's her home building. And so I think it also creates just that other level and layer of stability for Central that I think will be really important. There will be times when Mike has to be out of the building obviously. Um so layering in some support with some of our other um elementary principles if they're willing to swing in and come over. Obviously Dr. Merkel has extensive experience as an elementary principal. And uh there's a secondary principal that has expressed some interest in potentially being an elementary principal that will give an opportunity to swing in and do that as well. Um but I mean gosh, Mike's staff, they don't need Dr. Merkel. They don't need another elementary principal. They don't need a high school assistant principal to come in and
076sort that out if if Mike needs to be out because he's been out a little more than probably most. I mean, coming over for negotiations. He comes over every Wednesday and sits in our cabinet meetings to lend that elementary lens from a person who's sitting in an elementary principal seat. So, I think he's the perfect uh addition to our team. I think he lends again that elementary piece to my cabinet to to give me that that sense. Roger always carried it uh from before having been an elementary guy and so just really important to have an additional elementary person uh as a part of that group with us so that they can kind of speak in on that. So >> So what what do you see the breakdown of Mike's um >> movement in and
077out of the building >> percentage wise? Yeah, he's going to spend uh most of his time focusing in on the title N the investigations. Um he's going to be the uh the liaison between our EAS and our staff. So any one of the principles is struggling with a kid uh from a discipline standpoint like even now sometimes they call Roger, sometimes they call me I think that will still be a split role. some of the paper documentation, the building of contracts, the like we do paper contracts for all of our teachers, for all of our coaches, all three seasons, for all of our non all of those things are things that I can just roll with and take care of on my end. Um, but obviously in the role that I'm in, I can't be
078the lead investigator on staff issues or any other issues that come across our desk because you need somebody that's there so that as a superintendent, you can hear those those pieces and be the decision maker in those spots. And so that'll kind of be where where Mike leans into it uh particularly inside of year one. I believe based on my own experience that there'll be times that he'll be able to do that even from his uh from the office at central u be able to be kind of that liaison and then those moments when we know that he's going to have to be out to be doing some investigation in other places or doing some of those touch points that's where we'll be able to plan ahead and say all right so we're going to
079potentially need this person or you're on call and here's how we're going to work through that but and Mike can tell you he sent it out to his staff and he had three teachers lead out re reach out already and be like, "What can we do to help? We know you're going to be out of the building. What are some areas that we can help support because we think you're going to be great in that role and we're grateful we get you for another year." So, but that's how we're going to start that and we'll continue to evaluate it, right? if it becomes too much of a of a of a huge issue and it makes it difficult so that he can't do either of those roles well and I can't do mine plus the
080other part of that well we're going to have to evaluate that as we go but >> so you sort of answered it but you didn't >> okay >> what's the percentage >> oh I'm sorry I didn't hear the percentage >> no that's fine you gave me all the details is what it would be so now the easy answer >> my guess is he'll be 40% % with the assistant super and 60% with the principal. >> Okay. All right. Great. I think one of the things and again um the legacy of Central >> Yeah. >> is uh the administrators that have been in that building the it pretty much runs itself. Um the staff are an incredible team and I think it's probably because single section, right? >> Not anymore. We're two seconds. We're actually the
081third smallest school. >> Really? >> Nice. Well, now you got a bigger challenge. All right. Still 6040. Um, but Central just has this DNA that no other elementary has in this district. >> Yes, >> I believe that anyway. Um, and yeah, I this is to me this is a major challenge, but I guess whenever you get a major challenge, the other thing is you learn a lot during those challenges. >> Yep. And to your point, Bob, I don't know that we would have been able to do it. It might maybe one other elementary school that it could have worked at in terms of how the staff kind of rallies in. We have great staff, but when you talk about the DNA of a staff that if a principal is not there, they can they can
082roll with it. Um, that's another part of the reason why I believe that this is going to work for this year. >> Okay. >> And it it's it's budget conscious. >> Got it. >> And and we have to be as budget conscious as we can. >> All right. >> I love the fact [clears throat] we're pulling from the farm. That's the plan. >> I love it. I love it. We have such talented people here. >> Mhm. >> I mean, it's one of the pride points that I love to talk about Granville is the depth of our administrators and how well how well they run their areas. So, I'm excited about that. >> So, so Hamilton is here, Kim. So, does Hamilton have the truck driving school? Who's got the truck driver? Is it Hastings or
083Hamilton? Is Hamilton a truck driving school? >> One of them has got a CDL. >> Someone's got a CDL program. I was just reading about that like last week. They had like six people graduating from it this year as a [clears throat] Yeah. Yeah. They have a CDL program. Yeah. It was either Hamilton or Hastings. I can remember which Hamilton. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. All right. Fair enough. Any other questions, comments, discussion? All right. All those in favor say I. I. >> Opposed. Motion passes. No public comment. All right. The next regular meeting of the Granville Board of Education will be Monday, June 15th, 2026 at the administration building. We are adjourned.