001I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. Can we do a roll call? >> Yes. Wonder John? Here. Bennet present. Stephus is the Gardine? Here. Gantt fell? Here. Devine? Here. And Highboard? Here. We have quorum. Uh please note as a courtesy to members of the audience of the Board of Education, please silence your cell phones. Uh public will only be able to speak during public comment if signed up. Uh Mr. Pickle, I believe we have a one comment. Any others? Just one? Great. Thank you very much. All right, first item on the agenda, the approval of the agenda. Can I get a motion? So moved. Support. All those in favor?
002Yes. Opposed? Motion passes. Item number two is the discussions and reports. Uh so we're going to go into 2A, which is our superintendent search plan. And Mr. Mark Palmer, um I think you just mentioned it a few minutes ago, but for anybody that hasn't uh just showed up now, um Just a reminder, we have feedback forms um that will be you can fill out after the interview. I'll collect them. We can uh distribute well, the make the make copies right then just to distribute to the board so they all have your your feedback. Um and that's the whole bit. Great. Thank you very much. Um so first off, welcome uh to the all the community members and thank you for taking the time to join us tonight uh for our interview for our uh Granville
003Public Schools Superintendent. So just a couple of points about how things are going to go tonight, right? And what you're going to see. Um we're going to be conducting our interview and we have pre-predetermined questions that we all work through uh together. Um and we're going to go through those and I ask you to keep in mind uh we're not all professional interviewers, so it may be a little wonky at times and just give us a little grace. Uh so it may may seem a little bit disjointed, but we're going to get through it. Um as we go around the room, uh we will have some pauses between questions as we take notes. Um and like I said, and we will get this done hopefully in about 60 minutes or so. Uh after the interview,
004we will take a short break um and while we uh collect all the feedback forms as Mr. Palmer spoke about, um he'll make copies of those for the us and so forth. So we'll take that short recess um and after that uh we're going to come back and we'll discuss the interview and and what we want to do going forward. After the normal business is complete, we will follow our normal meeting process and have the public comment at the end as I just mentioned. So, so there we go. Board, any questions about that process? Fair enough. So, we'll go right into moving to the superintendent interviews. Thank you. Who's buzzing? Members of the Board of Education, we have Mr. Filo here. Hey John. So, welcome John and thank you with being us for being with
005us today. I know you're excited about this. I know we are as well. Um so as I mentioned, all board members will be asking questions today and I'm going to start us off. Okay. The first thing we just want to talk about is we've all had the opportunity to review your review your resume. So, please tell us how your background and experience make you a good fit to be our next superintendent. Yeah, thank you for that. And thanks for the opportunity. As you know, I've been here at North Hunterdon High School. Um I had some opportunity to learn from really, really, really good leaders. Uh Randy Morris who was the long time principal of the high school and then Chris Vanderslice who saw some things in me that I didn't know that were there but
006helped me lift that up. Obviously, Ron Knight and Roger Barr as superintendents. And and my old scoutmaster Dick Davis who led with a pipe in his lip and a smile in his eyes and they all had different styles of leading, which really helped me to kind of build my own craft. Um for myself, I started in the leadership sides of things right away at the middle school. Um when I went in, I started right in the school improvement team, uh the crisis team, the student data team. I was going through my degree for administration, and I was getting it cuz I needed to get a master's, and I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. Um but those leadership roles kind of led me to a place where I
007really felt like there was something else that was better for me, and I could lift myself up and try to lead in a different way. Um moved into the 7-12 admin roles uh between high school assistant principal and an interim principal and a middle school principal and for a half a year the principal of the middle school and the high school. Um and then rolling into uh the role that I have here in human resources just gave me a great variety of uh different experiences to kind of help grow my expertise. On the HR side, I learned a whole lot about policy. I learned a whole lot about law. I learned a whole lot about negotiation. Um and learned an awful lot about the financial side of the district, which were things that I didn't
008have an experience in uh prior to from a principalship standpoint or any of those. Um and the other leadership piece that I always have leaned on is I'm an ice hockey official. I've been an ice hockey official since I was 14. Uh sometimes in front of crowds of eight, sometimes in front of crowds of 18,000. Um it helps you to be calm and assertive. It helps you to sort through the chaos. Um and it oftentimes led allows you to help match your emotions to a situation. And so, as your superintendent, I intend to use all of those experiences to to try to help navigate the complexities of a district, the complexities of a community, the complexities of our society as they come through our doors. Try to continue to do the great work that our
009district has been doing over the past 11 years in Roger's leadership. Uh and I believe that they've really shaped me to help lead the district uh forward. Thank you. Okay, John, you get the real first question from me. Uh the funding cycle from the state appears to be bottoming out from a bell curve perspective. Uh and will likely be the trend for the next few years. And this translates to state funding not necessarily keeping up with what we have preferred to see given the funding cycles from the past several years and um I'm also talking about the federal funds that happened during COVID that many districts kind of over banked on in some situations. We did not. Yep. Um in addition, recently the school district's credit rating has been downgraded by Moody's from an A1
010to an A2. And while A2 isn't alarming for most, I'm a steward of our finances. Always has been. Yep. Um it does prevent a notice a notable cautionary factor to the administration that the district should maintain and grow our fund balance above the 7%. So, it's almost like we've hit that bottom. >> Yep. Which what Moody's saying. Um so with uh majority of the budget, 82% funding staff, what two or three strategies would you utilize to help hold the line on our fund balance while continuing continuing to improve student learning? Yeah, understood. Um obviously the the $31 that were tied to some different things that we as a as a community decided not to take um had a big impact on our fund balance. We would have been closer to an 8.2 to an 8.3.
011Um so it had some of that impact on us moving to an A2 in Moody's and you're right, Bob, that we want to be above that, right? We've We've been really transparent. I think that first strategy is just being very transparent with our our community. We were transparent with our uh teachers group. I've had regular meetings with our GEA president and GEA leadership about what that A2 Moody's rating means for us long term and how it's so important that we begin to rebuild some of the things that we had built up when we were at 10% 2 years ago. Um and so I think that's a a big part of it because then you can start some collective problem solving. The second step in that is uh what we've already started to do is meet
012with each one of our leaders and ask them to bring to us, what are some things that you see in your building? How can we collectively look at ways to reduce our expenses um so that we're not digging deeper into into those pieces. We need to look at expenditures on our resources, on licensing that we may not be using to its fullest potential. We did some work in and around copies and shared some data where if we were to cut our copies by 25% across the district each year it would save us about $100,000. Um so shared some strategies in and around that. But we need to look at all of those pieces to really dive in and dig into those parts. When we look at personnel, you talked about the 82% of our folks.
013We have to really look closely at the roles that we have. Um of what we've been successful at doing in recent past is making reductions through attrition where if we have staff that leave the district for resignation or retirement that we try to find ways to absorb those roles, move people around so that we haven't had to do any sort of sig- significant layoffs in the years that I've been here all the way back to when I started teaching in 2003. But I think the key thing is when you're looking at whether it's the expended expenditures where you're sharing that common thread of how do we save dollars inside of the district, when you're evaluating roles is you can't do it in isolation. It requires us to to work together with our teaching group, with
014all of our support staff, with our administrators to really dig deep in the how how we can save expenditure. And then and then going forward, again looking at the roles, I mean we built a really great support system for our kids using the COVID dollars. And we used those really well. And it breaks my heart that we're starting to look at having to break some of that down. And so we have to find that balance between not breaking it down completely, still providing the service that we can for our kids, and being able to do so being fiscally responsible. Great. Thanks, Jim. All right, next question. Um tell us how you maintain visibility and accessibility for staff, parents, and community groups. What have you seen that works well in communicating with staff and community? Sure,
015I appreciate that. Um one thing that I really appreciated about watching Roger do his work is he is ever present. Every rather week he sets aside time in his calendar to visit buildings, keeps track of which buildings he goes to and which ones he doesn't. Uh and that's something that I would 100% emulate right from the get-go. Uh being present at events, being present inside the buildings. When it comes to the larger community that's where that's where your accessibility and your visibility comes in. Being available and accessible when they when someone calls, if someone asks for a meeting, you have your meeting. Um you know, you can communicate quick things via email. You can push out staff you know, push notifications to the community if it's quick information, but anything that's really important, anything that
016is difficult, needs to be done in person, needs to be done one-on-one, potentially over the phone if you need to do it over the phone. But those are conversations that have to happen in an in-person place. And in order to do that, you have to make sure that you present yourself as a person who is visible, who's available, and when you listen, you listen to understand, not listen to fix or not listen to move that person along. And that's something that I will strive to do as well. Thank you. I'm up. So, every school district has this, unfortunately, we have crisis events that occur. And trauma can happen in schools in many forms as we well know. Can you tell us how you have managed crisis situations, even recently this year, to other times in
017your past, to ensure staff and student safety and maintain continuity in education? Yeah. Um when I received that question, the first thing that came to mind was um my second year as an assistant principal, Chris Vander Slice was the first year principal, and in January that year, he was diagnosed with leukemia. Um there were two assistant principals in the in the high school at that time. One was uh Dr. Mike Leiter, who's a principal in Jenison now. And so, I became the acting principal 18 months into uh a secondary career from an assistant principal role. Um during that time, in one week, we had a student deaths of Alyssa Arenas and Ryan Fischer. Um toward the end of that school year, right before graduation, uh we lost Roman Aguilar Emmons. And those were all of
018those really tough, critical crisis events that required boots on the ground, and it required us to be not only right out in front of people and people focused, uh but also trying to plan forward for how do you manage the dialogues that our teachers are having? So, how do you help build some of those pieces? How do you pull in outside resources to help you? Where are your, you know, your social workers? At that time, we didn't have, you know, social emotional learning coaches that we could lean on. So, it's really all of our social workers and outside community people that we brought in. Um and we spent especially after the the Ryan Fischer piece, uh we spent the next 2 weeks uh really just focusing in on student well-being, staff well-being. Um I'd like
019to tell you that we managed to nail a bunch of curriculum during those 2 weeks, but the reality was it was more important to focus in on the students and the staff and their well-being in that place. As a central office person, that role shifts a little bit um cuz you're not the boots on the ground person from a principal standpoint. So, in those cases, you are you're kind of the central receiving, for lack of a better term. You know, we may be we may spend most of our time helping to manage a crisis from within this building. So, that we're coordinating conversations and we're coordinating information, and we're helping to build the responses that we're going to give not only to the media, the responses that we're going to give to the staff, the
020responses we're going to give to the parents. Um and so, you become less of a boots on the ground in the initial parts of that crisis, and then in the follow-up parts of it, you're working with your building leaders, and working with your SEL coaches, you're working with your social workers to try to help find ways to support the children, support the staff that are in that space. Um so, I've had experiences in both places. Um it those are really, really hard scenarios to work through, and the best thing we can do in those moments is to love on the people that are inside the buildings, and find our way through for each of them. So, so those are tough. I just want to follow up with >> Yeah, I I would be delighted to,
021go ahead. What did What did you learn? You look back, you guys say, "What would I do differently?" Oh, man. Um I remember thinking, uh especially in the Ryan Fischer scenario, because I was just so new. Um I wanted to plan it all out. So, we're sitting in a room, and we're trying to plan it all out. Angie Thornburg walked in, and she said, "You all got to get out of here. It's falling apart." And I went out, and it was falling apart, right? Um and so, recognizing, I think, the the big thing that I learned in that one was uh you can try to plan and plan and plan, and try to build that together, and how are you going to announce it, and what are you going to do. Uh but the reality
022is, sometimes you just have to make a call in those scenarios to to be present, to be out in in front of people. On the district side of it, um the thing that we learned, particularly after the uh the Century Park uh critical incident that we had a couple of years ago, um was we just didn't communicate well enough afterward, um and we didn't give uh enough time and space for our staff to kind of process it before we rolled back into school. Um and that's something that that I learned in that in that instance, and we did a better job of it when we had the one at Cummings about a year later. Um it was not nearly as as traumatic to the the but we we did a better job with it. Okay.
023Thank you. >> Thanks. Some of these um crisis events and trauma can be dicey, we know, right? Um this last year we had an incident where a father was picked up by ICE. And I'm just wondering as a superintendent, how would you um and there've been other incidences, I know, as well. How are you going to lay out a plan, if you could have a plan, to address some of the trauma that our students, especially, cuz that's always got to be our focus, right? >> Yep. Um some things we don't have a control over, but what would you do to lay out a plan to help address uh the trauma that some of our students might experience from these kind of events? Yeah. Um and I think each one of those we have to really
024dig in and talk to the family, find out what the family needs, um which we did in that instance. Uh work with our leaders and our teachers and our kids in that space, again, depending on the age of the student, to really understand what they may need. Um and within our locus of control, what is it that we can do to help support the child, support the family from from a district standpoint, to ensure that they have everything that they need to learn, that they have everything that they need to get to and from school. Um that that's the part that we have to really really lean into is where is that area that we have control over and how can we make sure that when the child is with us, that they feel safe,
025that they feel loved, and that they feel supported. And you have to rely on your teachers, the the experts in the room, to know what's going on with the child. Does the child need additional help? And give us and allow us like to cue us in on some of those things that we need to really focus in on from a like a social emotional standpoint. And you would mention, you know, how you like to plan. Mhm. So, um do you feel like there's any things that you could put in as a plan, not necessarily a quote-unquote policy, but a plan so that at least like the staff would have a basis to go by, at least to start with, because I know every situation is different, but at least something. Are you talking like in
026general? Well, like for example, that situation. Like, you know, what would be something that you would as the leader of the district say to the staff, um you know, should this happen this is what I would like to see Yeah. you know, occur in some sort of chronology. Yeah. If if you're referring to what do we do if uh someone from ICE shows up at a at a district, we have that plan in place and we have it communicated very clearly to the leaders in our buildings and they're going to call us first and we're going to show up and we're going to help manage that that situation and that scenario, right? As it relates to what do we do for our staff and our students if and if that ever occurs it comes back
027to how do you pour into where they're at, how do you help them manage through what they experienced, how that played out, and keep them feeling again safe within the school. Okay. Thank you. Mhm. All right. Next question. Tell us what a challenging situation you've experienced in bringing a diverse group of people to consensus on a difficult issue. Uh how did you personally provide leadership in the situation and what was the final outcome? Sure. Um yeah, one of the one of the things that we uh did as a district was part of that was that strategic plan. I helped support Roger in that. Um more recently inside of our building here, while we don't have a ethnically diverse uh staff here, we do have a staff that has variety of personalities and beliefs and opinions
028about the way that we do our work. And and we found ourselves kind of at odds at times about what we were about and what we needed to do to move forward. And so we went through a process of creating collective commitments, um sort of like making a small strategic plan for your building. Um and you have to start by identifying what the issue is, gathering feedback about possible solutions, what can you do? You listen, you brainstorm, you summarize those. Then you narrow those using again staff input. Uh from there, the staff prioritizes the things that you narrowed down, you work through that. Then you review, you edit, um and then from there, you present the results, you make a collective plan on how you do that. And you have to do that with the
029group, right? In some cases, it's with a with a large group. If you were doing it at a high school, and I know that um we've worked through that at at some of our larger buildings, you might have to do those in pockets and then bring the pockets together through leadership groups. You might be able to do that within a larger group of 110 teachers, but that could that gets a little harder to Um but it's it's it's doable. And so I think the the key thing is you you've got to be able to work through that. And then you have to recognize that after you get done with that, it it doesn't fix it immediately. Like in our in our office, it didn't fix it immediately, but what it allowed us to do was
030to point to a document and say, "Look, we we agreed that we weren't going to do that." And so collectively, we have to make sure that we're not we're not in that space. And that starts from the leadership side of things, and then you know that you've got it when other people in the in the building are saying that to each other, like, "Hey, we don't do that here. This is this is what we need to do, and this is how we need to work through that." But you can't land there if you don't include the group in helping to kind of pull and build all of those pieces together and be able to guide that dialogue toward a common or common common commitment. So what has been the result of that? So, it was
031interesting cuz I as I thought about it, um it's been eight or nine months before somebody's come in my room and closed the door and said, "So-and-so did so-and-so and this and this and this." And I've heard people saying to each other, you know, "Hey, um this person did this but we we worked our way through it or we talked our way through it." And so, you know, we we were really clear about like why do we exist, who do we serve, and what are the non-negotiables about how we're going to interact with one another. And now it's becoming who we are. And I'm not blind to the fact that over time we're going to have to revisit it. Right? Over time you have to revisit as you get new staff in or you begin
032to work through it and they didn't go through the process with you, showing them what the common commitments are and having them be a part of the common commitments are very different. And that's something that you have to have a like a constant pulse on what you're doing and how you work through those. Thank you. Mhm. Hey John, real quick. >> Yeah. So, this um I like that idea of recycling the common commitment. Yeah. Um do you see a timeline for that cycle? Would it be on a calendar basis? Would it be on a situational uh causing, you know, that response? What what do you think would drive, based on Mhm. what we've already developed in the district and how far down that path Yeah. we've gone. Yeah, I think it's a both and. Like
033you might notice it situationally and if you find that you're starting to veer off track, you might need to do that because it's situational. But a general rule of thumb is about every 5 years you should be re-looking at those and determining where are you at, what do you need to do, how do you work that forward. Great. Thanks, John. And John, how So, we we did have um we did have some public comment about part of what you said is we do not have a very ethnically diverse staff. Yeah. Um and one of the things that I'm curious about is how do you how do you see collecting those needs and those ideas? How do you feel what's the best format to get what is needed within the district? Um can you clarify a
034little? How how how should people approach that as far as like is this is this one building's needs and they use the principal as that? Are there are there collective meetings? Are there ways? Surveys? Informational things that you can collect? Yeah, understood. Um so we gather some of that data when we do um do the all that all the MTSS work and we do our surveys and those. We gather those, we pull that data in. Um the GEA creates a a survey for us that we look at every year and try to find out detailed and information through that and if we're not sure what it means, we reach out to them and say, "Hey, like can you help me figure out what this means?" Um so those are those are ways that we're already
035gathering that those details and that information. Um if when you when you ask about, you know, like if it's something that has to do with race or ethnicity or those kinds of things, I would hope that those are issues that are that are brought either to the building leader or are brought directly to us so that we can work through what that means. Like we want to be able to find out what's the source of it, where does it layer itself into and and what are they what are the current what's our current reality and what plan do we need to make to go forward? Um and I think I think we have the skills in the district to be able to do that. Thanks. Mhm. Can I follow up on that? I think one
036of the comments that we had um more specifically regarding this is like how are you going to ensure that the voices of the minorities in in this district will be a part of that decision-making process when you are trying to solve a problem or set a goal. You know, how are you How can you make sure that that's going to be a part of that diverse group that you would put together? Yeah. So, what we do mean we do that with in inside the the data that we get through the MTSS surveys. It gives us really very clear detailed information about where those things are. So, that gives us at least an idea of where we need to start. Um I intend to continue doing the student leadership groups that Roger does where you're meeting
037with kids that are pulled in from the district that are representative of the the group that um that of our district, right? So, they're bringing in students from different races, different ethnicities, different uh socioeconomic groups. Um and and so, those are the original ways that we would need to build that. And if we feel like we need to collectively gather more detailed information about how we're doing and have that delineated um by different demographic groups, that's something that we can certainly do via survey or whatever if that's if that's determined that that's the direction we need to go. Okay. Thank you. Amy. Um try. Tell us about your experience in the development and implementation of one specific program or initiative. What process did you use? And how did you involve others? Yeah. Uh the example
038I I like to use is um 5 years ago, 2019, the evaluation data for um the the data that we need needed to gather for um um pre-evaluation, the law changed. And so uh I reached out I have two uh we had two building leaders and then uh six or seven teachers, and we spent time looking at each one of the approved data collection points that we would need to be able to use, identifying what they believed and what we believed were the benefits and the drawbacks to those, what goals did we want to set in and around what we use for evaluation data, and then pulled that information together to try to help really build that out. What came out of that was um the state testing evaluation data that we use is our
039SAT, and it was determined that we wanted to be able to say as a system here's the value add. So, what you do in kindergarten, what you do in first grade, what you do in second grade also helps to impact the scores of our students when they get to 11th grade. Our high school teachers do amazing job. Our middle school and our intermediate do an amazing job. Kindergarten teachers do an amazing job. Our high school teachers realize our kids don't get great scores on the SAT without K through 8 supporting the work that they've done. And so uh we used what was called the EVASS tool. Um and inside of that it gives a value add score. So, it doesn't just give you how successful your kids were doing on the SAT, it gives you
040a score of the value that your district or that your building or that your you can get down all the way granular to a teacher gives to a student's education, and it's comparative against other districts inside the state, and I'm happy to report that we we have been on the top end of that scale inside the EVASS tool since we started down that path. The second goal in that was to attempt to remove some of the nervousness that comes into what data are we going to use and how is that going to look for us from a teaching standpoint because we wanted to lean into the instructional practice side of the evaluation and to not spend as much time being hyper-focused on what the data might tell us. Thank you. Mhm. And next, sometimes we
041are in situations where our role is less about being the one to come up with creative ideas and more about facili- facilitating the creative process or helping others get their ideas implemented. Describe a time when when you played this type of role. What did you do to facili- facilitate the process and what were the results? Yeah. Um similar process to number five, but um in this one, um I want to give an example of how I helped uh Adam Link dog. I don't know where he is. Oh, there he is. Oh, there he is. So, when Adam was an AP for me, uh he was in charge of the science department and about 10 years ago, the MDE elected to make three years of science and they said you had to get all of the
042earth science, physical science, chemistry, and biology standards all into one place. And so, as a science person, I taught science for nine years and I have a major in biology and emphasis in fisheries and aquatics. I'm all about the science side, but I needed to help build that skill in Adam as a leader. And so, we went through that process of looking at all the standards, aligning those standards based on common themes and threads, and what our science team determined over time was that they needed to have bio nine and chem nine as semesters, bio 10 and chem 10 as semesters, and then physics. And they did that not only by looking at the math skill that kids needed for each one of those levels, but also how those aligned and then they embedded the
043Earth Science standards inside of those. And so, I share that to share like the goal is to let your experts do the work, provide the framework around which what we what you need to do. Here's what we have to do. We have to get all of our standards in line. We have to have 3 years of science. How are we going to make that happen and embed all of those pieces together? Um and so, I spent a lot of time working with Adam and helping him manage kind of the frustrations that happened in through that process. Um but watched over it, helped him work through it, and helped him lead through that through that process because I think that's important. Um and from a superintendent's standpoint, when you have things that are going on inside
044your buildings, you have building leaders, you have departments, you have those folks that are trying to work through that. The goal is to help build that leadership capacity in them as well and help them to learn some of the processes and procedures that successfully help man navigate that work. What was the What was the um response that you got from your teaching staff that were the beneficiaries of that? And then the students have benefited. Yeah. Yeah. I know they felt empowered in the work. Um I think, you know, we're 10 years later and we're still using it. We're probably at a point where we need to reevaluate that, right? Just like a strategic plan, you can go through and you can lay all those out and you can start to pull apart all the standards
045and do all of the work in how you're going to build that, but if you don't regularly go back and look at it and try to figure out if it doesn't need to be adjusted based on what we know now. Um but I know that they felt really strongly about the way that it played itself out and I would have to circle back to them to find out where they're at with it now 10 years later, but um it was a fun process for us to go through. >> All right. How do you assess the effectiveness of instructional practices or teacher, you know, resources, curriculum? >> Mhm. And uh what corrective measures do you take if you find that those resources or programs are not having the positive outcome that you'd like to see? Sure.
046So, I look at instructional practices and resources obviously very differently. Um our instructional practices are detailed really clearly in the Marzano framework that we use from an evaluation standpoint. The Marzano framework was built as an instructional model model, not as an evaluation tool, but they were able to fashion it into that space and it's very clear about here are the high-impact strategies that our teachers can use to have leverage the most movement for our kids, right? On the resource side of it, the resources are the tools that we use to access the curriculum. Our curriculum really is our standards, right? So, how do those resources align with what our standards tell us? How do when we look at those resources, how are they impacting our students' success on MAP, M-STEP, SAT, etc. And then once
047you land in that place, so you find a gap, how do you fill that? You can't research your way out of a tier one problem. And so we have to get really critical about where that looks. Instructional strategies are a little easier to fix, a little more quick to fix. You can show examples, you can show those things. Resources take a little more time because we have to make sure that we align the resource very clearly with the curriculum that we have, the standards that we have, and the knowledge and skills that we want our kids to really lean into and grow in. Great. Just to follow up. So, specifically, let's say you find something, you know, a practice that is not working. What steps would you take to sort of evaluate that practice, and
048then what would lead you to change the practices or resources? >> Sure. Well, I think if you're talking about like the resource of the instructional practice, again, we have to start we have to start by looking at the data. It tells us let look at what the data tells us. We need to gather feedback from our staff, and figure out where they're at. Are they using that tool with fidelity? Are they using the resource with fidelity? Are there are there instructional practices that they need more learning in or or more um growth in? Um but if we need to stop using a tool because it's not effective, we'll stop using a tool because it's not effective. But we have to figure out from a staff standpoint, where are our staff at at our where are
049they in that process? Are they using it with fidelity? Is it an issue with the tool? Is it an issue with the content, the knowledge and skills that we've identified, or is it an issue with instructional practice? And that's a complex question to answer, because I think in any one of those cases, it drives you in a different direction. But the short answer is if we find out that we have a resource that's that's not working and we gathered the input from our staff, we would pull that apart, and then we would say, "All right, help us understand what resource we need." So, we pilot lots of different things, and we're piloting some really cool things right now that we may end up implementing. Um but then you pulled the you pilot, you gather feedback
050on what that looks like, and you learn how to grow in that space. Great. Thank you. All right. Um this is a little bit more specific to our district. Um during the time leading up to today, a number of us have heard that staff from particularly K4 through 5-6, and I'm going to add to this even into our secondary um levels, that curriculum has does have some holes in it for both reading and math and some of the other core subjects as well at secondary level. Um I would also add to that some of our subgroups like our special ed groups um and our ML learners do not have particular curriculum um given to them to use. Are you aware of these concerns across the district and what is your perspective on the need to
051both address and to align these topics? I'm going to say K It says K-6 or I'm saying K-12 cuz it really needs >> Well, yeah, and we're in the process now of of working through that K-12 alignment. Um but it has to start with our standards. We have to get crystal clear about what we want kids to know and be able to do. We have to look at the standard itself, pull out the nouns to find the knowledge, pull out the verbs to find the skills, and be really clear about where we are in that process. Um and I think that's step one because we can't we can't resource or purchase a curriculum. We can't resource our way out of a tier one problem. We have to be really critical and clear about what that
052looks like and once we know what that is, then we're gathering in and put on what kids are doing from uh a standard standpoint, now we can be much more pointed and and and really specific about what we're doing to support that skill, that knowledge, standard, and and what resource do we need to fill that. Think a a good example is um we looked at some things and made some adjustments by grabbing DreamBox and and Reflex and Frax, right? So we grabbed a resource that was very very critical to the fact influencing piece and because our staff are using it with fidelity and we're doing that on a regular basis, we're seeing those scores really move up quickly. And so, we have a resource that we're using with fidelity that's specific to one of the
053balance and skill sets that we found lacking for our kids, right? That's the goal of building the resources. That's the goal of taking a look at all of what we're teaching and how do we build that out and go forward? But again, it requires a team. So, going forward um we're already establishing a district PD team that will be based on uh staff primarily teaching staff and look a few administrators cuz that's an important part of the input process as well. Um they're going to help us to establish what do we believe that we can get accomplished on our half days? What do we believe that we can get accomplished on our and our monthly meetings either through staff meetings or department meetings? How can we get very focused on that and be really clear
054about here's where we are and here's where we need to go. And that when when Chris and I were when Chris was a principal and I was the assistant principal and we were both assistant principals, we started down that PLC work with our high school. Um when I came back as the principal, I continued that work for a couple of years and then Adam and his team have picked up on it and have really run with it and they're working really hard at breaking down the standards and aligning resources to what they need. And our high school in particular has had some pretty dramatic growth comparatively over the last year or two particularly inside the SAT. We believe that that has to do with being crystal clear about what we want kids to know and
055be able to do. That includes creating learning targets, performance scales so kids know at what level they need to be able to understand it and how do they go about that process. Um you're It sounds like you're trying to get um, as many stakeholders involved in this. Um, what about ongoing feedback though during this process that you outlined for us? Are you thinking is there like a period of time that you would go back to your committee and and get the feedback from the teachers who are trying to implement um, this new resource? Well, I think the the the key thing in building out that QPD plan, that quality PD plan, is it has to be specific enough that it can be followed, but also flexible enough that it can be shifted. And I envision
056that being grade level teams that meet on half days so that it's schools meeting with schools at the grade levels and those are being led by building leaders. Uh, again with a very specific, here's what we need to do, here's how we need to get through it. Um, we then pull that back together during our district teams. So, whether it's our dit uh, built by building with the with the bits at all of our buildings. We have data reviews, we have benchmarking, we have all of those pieces that inform the decisions along the way. And so, in between your half days, if your um, hourly meetings for departmental inside your building, your hourly meetings as a staff where you're working through that and you're gathering feedback and you're doing check-ins with how we're doing between
057the goal that we set from the first half day to the goal we set for the second half day, where are we at, what are we doing? There should be a constant feedback loop. Not just inside the building, but then also at the district level when they come in for their larger groups. Okay. If the curriculum is not working for a K through 4 Mhm. teacher right now, what what is the right process for that feedback to get back to the administ- like in you in the superintendent role and or to the board? >> Right. Well, it typically it starts at the building level, right? So, they're talking to their their their neighbor, they're talking to their their teaching partner who typically brings it to one of the building leaders, whether they're GTA leader or
058not, and then bring it to the principal, and then the principal brings it to one of us, and we start having dialogue around what that is. All right. Okay. Just a really quick follow-up. >> Yeah. A little bit more just about curriculum in K4. >> Yeah. Um I appreciated that you said you can't intervene or resource your way out of a tier one problem. Um and that's really important. How do you go about with these curricular decisions? How do you go about determining curriculum for K4? So, I understand how standards work at the secondary level. I think at the elementary level looks a little bit different. Um so, how how would you go about sort of selecting a program or curriculum for the district? Yeah, I think if we're talking about something specific to K4,
059what we've done always done is we've we've pulled people together, we've looked at all of the resources that are available, and then we've had a committee select that. It's been I maybe we have, but I'm not aware of a time where we have said, "Here's something that we're going to do, and everybody's going to do it. We're not gathering any preemptive input, we're not gathering any post input, we're just saying everybody's going to do it." Um and so, when we have those issues, cuz we will, because resources are not perfect. If there was a perfect resource, everybody would have already purchased it, and we wouldn't be talking about standards, curriculum, resources, everybody would already be doing it. It it really boils down to if our K4 staff can look at all of our standards and
060make a very clear curriculum map for themselves about what they need kids to know and be able to do, what resource do they need to go through that curriculum map. And that's the work that that trying to build. That's the work that we're trying to re-dig into. Okay, thank you. All right. Please describe how you have engaged and supported staff members in a way that is meaningful to them. How did you know they felt supported? Sure. Um I think this has been um honestly one of the strengths that I've had as a leader. Um I love meeting with people. I love meeting with people when they're arguing with each other. I love meeting with people when they're arguing with me. Um and maybe that's the referee part of me, right? Like I've managed those moments
061uh in a lot of different ways, but I think the the critical thing is you have to listen to understand. Like when you sit into a when you get into a meeting and you have something that's going on with a staff member, there's a concern about uh a curricular resource, whether it's concern about a staff member, whether it's concern about the direction of the district, whether it's concern about their own child who may be a student in the building, or it's a parent issue. The first thing you have to do is listen to understand. Once you listen to understand, then you've got to figure out what are your next steps, right? So as a superintendent, the goal would be to listen, kind of summarize what that looks like, try to find a solution that works
062for not just the the system that you might be working in at that point, um but also for the person or the individual. Then you do some follow-up, you do some uh some common support, um but you measure it based on the interactions that you have with that person a week down the road, two weeks down the road, four weeks down the road. Do Do you feel like that person has like you'll you'll know, I guess is the best way to put it. Um but I do a lot of what follow-ups, check-ins, uh quick conversations, pop in and uh to a classroom and say like, "Are you good? Are we good? Anything?" Um Do you Do you have any good examples of this? About how you've done this in the in the past. I mean,
063it it's good to talk in theory, right? You know what I mean. So, I Without um They'll break any confidence. Yeah. That's the hard part. That's That's the difficult part of sitting in this seat in front of all of my peers. Let Let me Let me try and ask you in a different way. Okay. Um how much How much time do you put into that this particular situation? Uh depending on the severity, it might take a couple hours. It might take 10 minutes. In some cases, it takes >> No, that's not That's not what I'm going, John. I apologize. >> Yeah. I'm I'm sorry. Okay. What I'm trying to get at is Okay, you work 60 hours a week. I'm not going to say you work 40 cuz I don't think anybody in this room
064works 40 hours a week. So, bless your hearts for that. Yeah. Um So, what I'm looking at a percentage of your overall time. Mhm. >> What What has it been specifically in the HR role? Yeah. Where you've been in these situations? Probably 25% of my time. Okay. Good. That's all I had. I don't know if Jason had No, that Yeah, pie chart about it. Love it. Perfect. Okay, John. Um This one's near and dear to my heart. Mhm. Um there is a growing concern from parents and staff that I hear from where the administration is moving to an inclusion model versus self-contained Mhm. classroom for K4 and K6. Yep. I mean, above that, I don't really hear much, right? It's Yep. And then it's the 504 world for some reason. Um and this adds a
065strain on general ed classrooms, teachers, and buildings and may not be in the best interest of both the special needs students and the general ed students. I believe the majority of parents today rely very heavily on the guidance from the district regarding the best placement for their children. And then, what is your perspective on the situation and can you provide a top-level response to addressing and resolving this concern? Yeah. Um it's complex, right? When you have kids that have complex needs, particularly at the K2 level, um it it's a complex process. I think, you know, we have to make sure that when we're looking at our kiddos, whether they're K2 or K12, that we're being pretty specific about what we need to do from an individualized instruction standpoint for the kid based on where they
066are and what they're doing. Um and then also ensuring that that our offer of faith, our free and appropriate public education, our free and appropriate public education is is meaningful for that child. Under IDEA, um the general recommendation is roughly 80% of that student's time ought to be in general education classrooms, right? We want to make sure that, particularly at our youngest ages, that our kids have access to that tier one general education instruction. It's a really important piece for us. If you saw me as a kindergartner and you saw me as a second grader, I was very different. Um and so, we want to be able to determine is it the student's age that's impacting behavior? Is it their disability that's impacting behavior? So, we bring in our BCBAs, we bring in our um
067our coach, our ASD coach to try to pay attention to those, but we want to make sure we don't predetermine that students' long-term success that early in their career. Now, on the gen ed side of it, obviously there's a concern about what those behaviors look like, and is this an appropriate placement for the student? And so, right away early on, we have to start gathering some of those that data, some of that evidence, and try to determine what might be the best placement for this student, how much time do we believe that they can access general education curriculum, and if they can only access it for a smaller period of time, where then do we need to place them during the other time that they have? So, at the regional level, each one of our
068locals is oh has opened and is opening a K-2 regional or a K-2 self-contained room to try to help balance some of that K-2 work. Um and I know that Caroline's been really specific with our K-2 classroom at East that she's going to try to keep that a little bit open and flexible for the moment to try to figure out how do we begin looking at placement for our K through 2 kids, so that we have a space. Um but the reality is if if those eight spots are taken and eight spots are taken in other places, we have to do our best to create that support inside the classroom for the teacher, for the student, for the gen ed students, and to do our very best to expose our students to as much tier
069one general ed curriculum as we can. But it's really hard, particularly at the K-2 level, to land in that space. So, um okay. My experience started with Durant. Mhm. Right? Most parents today have no idea what even that word means, right? Because the districts began to take on the role of guiding. Sure. So, that that's that's the number one concern of mine is um I I think we fall back on this 80% thing Yeah. as a safety net. Okay. And not necessarily and this first time we've had this conversation, but it's it's it's not necessarily what's what's the best interest of that special needs student. Based on their capability, based on their their needs, right? So, from that when you look at IDEA are subgroups still in play Yeah. like they were years ago? Yep.
070And have we been able to define what those sizes are? I haven't looked at it. Okay. Just just a follow-up for that if you can for me. It was big 20 years ago and we were limited on subgroup size from the federal government. >> Mhm. And now with what's going on with the Department of Ed, whether you like it or not um there are changes and hopefully they're trying to bring everything back to the state. Mhm. So, it's in the best interest of the state the ISD and the local district to guide that piece. And I'm not trying to get on my pulpit to talk about it, but it's it's th- this is a concern that um Yeah. I'd like to find an easier solution for it because I think it sucks resources out of
071the district as well. Yeah. So, appreciate the dialogue. >> Yeah. Thanks, Jim. Just a a quick follow-up with that. >> Yeah. So, one of the questions I have is as a superintendent, what would you do to support our general education teachers so that they have the skills and resources and practices available so that they are more successful with you know, having a wide range of students in their classrooms, particularly at the K-2 level cuz I know that it is challenging. So, generally for all or specifically for some of our staff who who may have a challenging kiddo in their classroom? I would say for all. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I I think I'd have to to think on that a little bit. Right? Cuz if we're talking about like general K-2 professional learning or some sort
072of a training, I think I would have to think on that a little bit. Individually, I know that we have our our BCBAs go in and give them some really specific feedback. We have our special ed providers go in and give some specific feedback, help them learn and grow in those places. We hire a lot of paraprofessionals to go in and help provide that support. We provide training to our paras about what they need to do and how they need to build that. Mhm. Um but in terms of like generalized training around uh like instructional strategies for specifically for difficult students, we would have to look into how we could do that if that was a need. Great. Thank you. Yeah. All right. I'm up again. When you look at personal strengths that are needed
073to make a good superintendent, where do you think you need to develop the most and why? Yeah, I think for me in particular it's it's growing and reestablishing like I was building at the high school principal level on my community connections and my visibility. As I wrapped up my high school principal time, that just to be frank and my my boys are in the room, I was losing my sons. I had spent so much time at the high school managing different crises and doing different work that I was losing my sons. I was losing my family and Roger saw that and when that opportunity came up and he thought I'd be great at the HR role and said, "Hey, but once you're working here and and try to figure this piece out." And I was
074at all the events, community events. I was a part of those different pieces. And now both my boys are in college. I have a daughter who's a sophomore, and my life's in a different place. And so, I'm excited to go back to the events. I'm excited to get back into the community groups. I'm excited to get back in being more visible and more open inside of our district. Thank you. Yeah. Um All right, John. You've been in the district for 23 years. Congratulations, my friend. Um what I'm looking for is for you to provide a quick synopsis related to the leadership development strategies Mhm. between Ron Caniff Yeah. and Roger Bear. And also their management styles. Yeah. Um and with you being with both of these superintendents, you're the perfect person to ask this question.
075Well, my management style, um Ron I felt felt like Ron always felt he needed to be the person who made the decision. Like he he he kind of bore that yoke, as best I could describe it, right? Um where Roger's management style is let the experts speak. So, as an example, best example is board meetings. I when I was at board meetings with Ron, it felt like Ron kind of ran the show and did all the com- all the communication. With Roger, if it's curriculum, he brings Scott in. If it's HR, he brings me in. If it's um finance, he brings Heather in. If it's a principal, he brings a principal in. So, Ron I felt did a really good job of managing that piece of it. He leaned a little bit heavier on the
076political side, but when I look at um what Roger did, Roger was way more open uh and he wanted to help pull the leadership out of people, so he walked a lot more alongside. Um he knew what was going on, he checked in on a more regular basis, and and I'm not saying anything bad about Ron. Ron was a great great great leader. I learned an awful lot about Ron, but they were just two very different people. Um you know, from my standpoint uh I'm a lot I align a lot more closely to Roger. I I credit the team. Um and not that Ron wouldn't credit the team, but I credit the team. I work um collaboratively with our group. I want the experts to speak when it's time for the experts to speak um
077because that's how you help build their leadership. So, as a follow-up to this, um it's still part of the same question. Mhm. Um so, one of the things uh Ron and I used to have I don't maybe really contentious Yeah. disappointment conversations is this district has lost a lot of great leaders. Mhm. Um and they've left the district on their own because they did not see a path forward Mhm. uh or it was very limited. They have to wait many many many years. Mhm. Um and if you look around West Michigan man a lot of them have Grandville roots. Yep. So, um to me, that's what I saw with Ron. Yeah. But can you can you go a little bit deeper into Roger? I know you you touched on a little bit, but can you
078give a little bit more to the kind of the kind of leader uh Roger looks looked for and um where you saw value in that? Yeah. Um what I see with with Roger it's he he he's able to look at each person from a potential standpoint. And then inside of that start pouring into them and providing What do you think about this? What have you thought about this? I can really see you doing this. What's your long-term goal? How do you want to build that up? So he had that that regular dialogue and still has that regular dialogue with the the leaders that we have here. Inside of that if there's somebody who says, "You know what? Long-term this is what I'd really like to do." he starts talking to them about that part of
079it. Well, here's what opportunity there might be. Here's what I think you can do. Now if you want to go I'll I'll support you 100% but here's where I see you in X number of years. Here's where I see you in X number of years. Um my first year as a high school principal he started talking to me about being an HR guy. And I was like, "Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to be a principal." Well, 2 years later I was ready to not be a principal anymore and uh I was ready for for something different and I think that's the that's the thing that I didn't have with Ron and maybe I was just too new, right? Ron left when I was 3 years into my gig. Um and the year and a
080half before I became the middle school principal was a pretty chaotic with all that happened between Chris and the student deaths and all those things. We were We were busy managing people. Um but that's the thing that I appreciate about Roger and that's the thing that I would love to emulate. Great. Thanks, Jeff. Yep. Can I ask a follow-up question on that one? Um I understand I I agree that it's great to have um talking about firing within to retain our own how we're building people up. I love that a lot. Um yet the person that we're holding up right now is that great person who brought that concept in was himself from outside of this district, right? >> So in that light, how do we remain creative and continue to expand the possibilities of
081this district, um, and what can we gain also by looking outside of ourselves to make sure that we maintain ingenuity and freshness. Yeah. Um, si- other than, uh, Ken See, I think I've hired every one of the principals that are in the room. Um, some of them from internal, some of them external. Um, and every time that we're looking at that, we're looking at what what does that building need, what does the district need, and how do we build that up. Um, and so I think we've done a really good job of doing both of those things. Bringing in really talented people from outside of the district that want to be that want to pour into the leadership side of things, and allow them to help push us and and prod us in different places.
082Uh, and I'm I'm proud of the work we've done in that area. Um, and I think long term, that's the place where we can bring them, they give us some new some new life, some new ideas, and we're working toward what does that look like for people going forward. Like, we're never going to be a district that holds somebody back. If they want to go be a uh, a principal of a different building or an assistant superintendent or a director of curriculum or whatever, we're never going to hold somebody back, but if they have that desire, and we can help find a path for them, we're going to do that. Thank you. Mhm. All right. Another question for me. Um, we are proud to call Granville Public Schools a destination district. And then we talk
083about that means like families, staff, students seek out Granville, and they want to be a part of it. Please share your thoughts on why it currently is, and then what we need to do in the next 5 to 10 years to remain that way. Yeah, well, it's the people and and it's our community, right? Like we have a fantastic community. When we meet with new and new uh prospective employees and they say, "What's so great about Granville Granville?" We talk about the community. Like it's it's the community feel and that's the piece of it. Now, from a school standpoint, we understand the school's role in that. So, from a superintendent standpoint, I think we need to re-look at our strategic plan. We've been about 5 years into that. So, I think that's a place Sally,
084to your question about how do we gather some input early on. We need to start looking at our strategic plan again. What we have there is really good, but it's 5 years old. We've got different people in the district and I think it's it's probably time for us to start doing that. Um I think we need to figure out how to uh enhance our security and safety inside many of our older buildings, um whether that's through the key card swipes at classroom doors where if you have an emergency if that automatically locks and and and they move forward. Um but we need to start looking at some of those things. I think when we look at our high school campus, we're about 30 years old there and there may be some love that needs to
085happen in some of those spaces um and and I think we need to to begin to look at that. And you know, we talk about facilities. My brother-in-law was an athlete at Spring Arbor and when I was principal, he came and I gave him my key card and said, "Walk around." He's like, "You have better facilities than we have at Spring Arbor." And that was 10 years ago, right? So, it's not even what we currently have now. And I what I think that's a a big part of it. From a um from an employee standpoint, we're going to continue to hire into hire and do our best to retain the absolute best of the best teachers that we can find. Because it's those folks that are the boots on the ground, our support staff are
086the boots on the ground that connect with our families and and make our family feel like they're supported and loved inside this space. Thank you. Yeah. >> John. Yeah. The move from being a peer to a manager can be an uncomfortable one. Mhm. Uh for people on both sides. Yeah. Um how would you handle the situation? In in particular, if a a former peer and friend is underperforming, how are you going to handle that conversation? Yeah. Um I started down that path 11 years ago when I went back to the middle school as a principal. Um a lot of those folks I had education with and hung out with and all of a sudden there I was. Um but what I find is that if if there's an issue and you bring it to someone's
087attention and you talk honestly about what it is, you try to understand where they're coming from, how we got to that point, uh try to work to plan together, and if it's an issue that's significant enough and you have to put together an improvement plan or you have to put together a plan of action and you're ready to walk alongside that person, um again, depending on the severity of what that is. And and in some cases, in this role, we have removed. We've we've gotten to the point where we've done the walk alongside and we've worked with people and we've done everything we can and we've had to remove people from their roles because it it just wasn't getting done. And so, you know, that's a last resort. That's the hardest thing that I have
088to do in my HR role. It's the hardest thing that Roger talks about having to do from a a superintendent role. Um but we're going to stay hyperfocused on what do we think is best for our kids, what do we think's best for our community, and um if we find that uh someone's being inefficient or isn't meeting the bar, then they need to be removed, that's something that we'll do. Uh earlier we talked about expected budget difficulties and we know we will have to do more with less. In that light, how will you go about evaluating existing programs and your personnel? Yeah. We talked a little bit about this before, but I mean, obviously we begin with our expenses. We try to figure out what we can reduce. Um, again, we talked a little bit
089about this with the the resource piece, but do we have do we have a tool do we have something we're paying for that we're using with fidelity? If we're not using it with fidelity or we're using it with fidelity, but it's not getting the results that we need or expect that we should get, we need to stop spending money on that, right? We've done over the course of the last four or five months, we've looked at licensing, we've looked at programs, we've looked at things that we have been paying for, but we're being widely used and we've started to move those off of the books, right? And that's something that we need to continue to do. Um, and on the personnel side, we're going to continue to try to reduce the attrition. Um, that is
090something that has been widely successful for us in the past. Um, and I think that helps from our attention standpoint because we don't have staff that are necessarily thinking, "Oh my gosh, I'm going to lose my job." It's I may have to move, but I'm still going to have my role. Um, and we have to do that by again by starting to look at non-student facing roles first and try to figure out how do we reduce those. Uh, a good example would be, um, we recently looked at for our third-party vendor who does our do do our cleaning, we looked at each in each building, how many how many people do they have? We made some reductions and we're we're going to save we're going to be able to save we're projecting to be able
091to save around $300,000 just by removing a little bit of a cleaning here and a little bit of a cleaning here. And again, that came from an idea from our building leaders. When we met with them and said, "Where's an area that we think we can reduce?" You know, I think we could probably reduce here and here's how I think we could do it and and that's the magic of it. That as a superintendent, I can have ideas about what that is but if I don't seek that input from our staff I talked to our GEA about it when I meet with them every other week or from our principals and try to figure out what we can collectively determine what do we reduce. As your superintendent if I tried to do that by myself
092I would fail. All right, a little walk down memory lane here. Mhm. Tell us about time in your professional life when you needed to be true to your personal integrity even though there were or could have been negative consequences for you. In other words, tell us about a time when you had to stand up for what you believed in the face of opposition. Yeah. Um I I think back to uh the pandemic in COVID on this one and the thing that that Roger and our team regularly talked about was we need students in seats. We need to have them in in front of our teachers because that is the place where they are going to learn best. And we need to follow the rules and procedures that have been given to us to protect the
093district to the best of our ability. As that pandemic wore through uh we knew that we at parts of it were going to hear a lot of frustration on the mask side and then as masks and vaccines become became less important we were going to hear of frustration from the side that felt like we needed to stay masking, right? Like we knew that by going down the middle we were going to hear that information on either side and and we held we held firm and as a board we held firm to we need our kids in school. It matters that they're in school. We had the online option for folks that needed it but the vast majority of our kids stayed in school and because we were able to follow the rules, we didn't have
094to do any massive shutdowns of school. We had a few moments where we had to shut down for a week or two, but we didn't have to do the massive closures. And as soon as we were able to go back in, we were right back in. And I'll I'll balance the response that our district had again collectively, community, board, leaders, teachers, support staff against anyone and especially in West Michigan for sure, but across the state. I think we did a fantastic job of keeping kids in school to the best of our ability and making sure that they had caring, loving adults that were there to support them. How do How do you deal with that personally when you're probably had some pretty tough personal attacks on decisions made? Well, I've learned how to deal with
095it, I guess is the best way to put it. So, um I I did college hockey for a while. And those were all televised games and then I would go to a ice rink and somebody would come over to me and say that I absolutely destroyed this call or I screwed this up with this team and they're not going to make the playoffs and like and it was it was frustrating. I suck. Yeah, sorry. I I did the best I could. I made the call that I could make in the moment with the information that I had. And and it was no different here, right? Did it Did it impact me? Absolutely, it did. Were there times when I went home and I was just like, "I need to breathe." Yeah, but I would go
096for a walk. I'd talk to my wife. I'd hug my kids, right? Like there are there are parts of my life that that that pull me back to center. Um and feel like I've always I've been pretty good at at balancing the the outside pressures and the things that that are said about me or to me that I know we were doing the right work. And I can settle into knowing that we were doing the right work. And I respect the opinions of the people that were around me, but I needed to stay laser-focused. And And we did a good job of that. Thanks. Mhm. John, Yeah. you would be new to the position of superintendent. Yeah. How are you planning to grow within your role, advance your knowledge, especially in areas like finance, contract
097negotiations, strategic planning, community engagement, all of that stuff? >> Yep. Um what role do you envision the board also in that process? Yeah. Um as I shared earlier on, uh from a contract negotiation standpoint, um obviously on the finance side of things, there's still more that I have to learn. And Heather is fantastic and is a great teacher. Um but over the course of the last 8 years, she and I have worked really closely together, particularly these last couple years. I mean, every time we do negotiation, we're lockstep. But uh the last couple of years where we've had to make reductions and we've had to make those in a smart way. Um so I I have a a really firm understanding of finance. Obviously need need to still grow there cuz I mean, everybody does
098as as time goes. Um but the I think the thing that I appreciate the most is yes, I know I'm going to have a lot to learn. I thought I was ready to be a high school principal until I sat down at the desk and it was quiet. And I was like, "Oh gosh, I have to have to run this place, right?" If I'm your person and I'm selected, that's going to happen to me at some point. I'm going to sit down in that chair. I'm going to feel like I'm an impostor. And I'm going to wonder what am I going to do next, right? Um but I'm grateful that Roger has brought me into conversations, dialogues, concerns, issues. Even if I'm not in the room when he's talking through them, he's talking to me
099about what he did before, how it went inside, what he does after. Um and I think that's a really important part of it, right? Like I've I've been in I've been in the room where it happens, for lack of a better term, right? Which I think is good. From a board standpoint, um you know, the relationship changes. Now I have a a more direct line to each I never really felt like as a super assistant super. It's not your fault, it's not Roger's fault, just that it was inappropriate for me to reach out. Um but so like for me early on, I would need to know really clearly with some some quick feedback, like am I meeting your communication expectations? I intend to keep up with the board updates every Friday and and and I've
100learned enough through Roger to know when I need to reach out and let you know something is up or not up, but um like I would need to know if I'm meeting those expectations. And when I'm not, I might need a little patience and grace here and there because it's going to be something that I learn and grow in uh over time. And there are things that I that are already part of the the job that to be honest with you, I don't yet know about. Um and that that's a piece that we can't tell you where I'm going to learn and grow there yet cuz I don't know what they are. Well, one of the things I do know that when Roger started, he had decided to take the board into two types of
101sessions, right? And um we have now been on the board 5 and 1/2 years and I think that most of our sessions have not been like the workshop necessarily, right? In what he envisioned it to be. Um kind of like that dream dream conversation. What do you see? What are areas you feel like need worked on that, you know, any of us hold close to us. Um do you think uh that that's something that might be within that realm of possibility? Yeah, potentially. We get We get I know that that's how it was initially planned to be and then the pandemic happens and whatever. Um but yeah. We can definitely talk through that. Thanks. Mhm. Hi. How have you addressed the achievement gap? >> Mhm. Um tell us about challenges and progress that you have
102made while addressing this. Um a lot of it goes back to the conversation that I I talked about a couple of different times by getting really crystal clear about what we want kids to know and be able to do, right? 11 years ago Roger came in and he identified the work and they were the four steps of the PLC process and all the things that went around it. And we were in a place where we were starting to look at you know, we were in year three, four of this time and we were looking at critical content. We were starting down that path and then again the pandemic happened. We turned over 40% of our staff from '21 to '24 and all of a sudden we stalled. Right? Um anyone who has closed the achievement
103gap outside of Grandville has been crystal clear about what they want kids to know and be able to do and the students the parents and the staff know what that looks like. They have the success criteria aligned to the learning targets of the performance scales that are there, right? And I think that's something that we have to we have to get back to cuz we were on the precipice. I think high school has been able to carry that forward. Um and again, Adam and his team have have made some really great strides on the SAT side of it go by going through that work, but I think that's the that's the big piece of it because then when you look at the MTSS system of support that we have that Jason Glarem champions so well
104for us, then we know what interventions we need to use when a kid's struggling. Then we know how to get them into an intervention and then get them back out because if you pull them out of class to do an intervention, they're out of tier one instruction, right? So, we've got to make sure that we're getting our kids all of the general ed curriculum and the tier one instruction that they need. That's a critical component. Uh and then we need to find ways to create and generate additional opportunity as kids move on into the secondary from the 7th to 12th standpoint. We need to find ways to to get them there, right? So, from my work initially, uh we need to refocus into step one of the PLC process. It's something that, you know, we
105started 11 years ago and so when you say, "What successes have we had?" Well, it took us 11 years to get to the place now at the high school level where we saw some some pretty significant growth in a year or two, right? Um some of that's the work that's happened at the elementary level as kids have come in. Um but that's the piece that we can do. If we can do that collectively, we'll be able to to really make some some gains from the achievement gaps standpoint. What do you feel is a way to get a stronger buy-in into that process by the staff in particular? Yeah, I think part of it is establishing that PD team and being really clear about what we need that what we need that time to be able
106to do for us. You know, when I when I first started in uh teaching 23 years ago, our professional development was sit and get, right? Like somebody came and they gave us information and they showed us how to do this really cool strategy and then we walked out of there and we were like, "Cool, we have a cool strategy. Now, what do we do with it?" I don't know, let's try it. So, we try it, but there was no there was no way to look at it, follow up, have any real any real true conversation or dialogue around it, and that's why that PD plan makes sense. What are we doing from a standard standpoint? What is our curriculum? How do we build that out? What resources do we need? Hey, what did you try
107in that? I tried this. How did that go? Well, it didn't go that great. Oh, well, awesome for me. Well, what did you do? Now you can share strategies cuz you're sharing strategies around an agreed-upon guaranteed and viable curriculum inside of those standards. And that's the way that we can help to bridge that achievement gap in a much more meaningful way. And do you feel there's any right now there's any stall points where in that process that you described? Cuz what you described sounds amazing as an educator, but there's stall points somewhere that's occurring I think I think we haven't like like I said, we we hit that stall point coming out of COVID, and then we turned over 40% of our staff. So, all the essential standards work that we did coming into COVID
108to make sure we shrunk down what our teachers had to teach. Our new staff haven't been a part of that in any way, shape, or form. So, we've got to reengage there. Give you a really good example. As a seventh grade teacher, I created I broke down all the standards for every one of my units. I had learning targets. I had performance scales. I had the learning targets linked to the assessments. I had a document that kids can identify what they were doing on the assessment when they got done, their their comfort in their level. Did they score well? Did they not? I had a binder that had all of the labs, all of the notes, everything for everyone. I gave it to the teachers that were there. I'm like, "You guys are going to
109be set for years." I did it. It didn't last. It it can't it can't be sustainable if one person does it. It has to be a collective effort, and that's why it takes time. And that's why it takes takes that effort going forward. I think some of the stall that we had coming into this year is we weren't very we weren't super clear about what did each one of our half days look like, and what are we going to do? This QPD plan should help us to build that. All right. So, as we wind as we wind down our time together, would you like to ask the board members any questions or leave us with any closing remarks? I don't have any questions. I'm going to take a drink of water. Okay. Um and I
110wrote I wrote a closing statement that I'm I'm going to read off the page because it's personal. Normally, I let my wife read these before I but I didn't, so sorry, Erica. First, thank you to Esther Kunnen, former middle school teacher, for a recommendation and Teresa Waterberry, former middle school principal, for seeing potential in a laid-off alternative ed teacher for an open position in October of 2003. I'm a country boy from a small town in Parma, Michigan. I'm the third of six children. All my sisters and brothers are wildly successful in their perspective careers. I'm the proud husband of Erica Pollen Filo, elementary teacher superstar in Kenowa Hills, originally from Jenison, who easily convinced me that Grand Rapids was the place we were going to live. Thank you to my in-laws, Rich and Betty Pollen,
111who were educators for 35-plus years in Wyoming Park and Godwin Heights, and helped me to understand the past for West Michigan. They have two sons, who thankfully are here today, both playing athletics in local colleges. A daughter who's a sophomore in high school. I can't begin to share how proud I am of them. Thank you to my parents who have always been my rock. My late father was a school board president and board member for 17 years and I know he's looking down proud to see me in this seat. Grandville Public Schools is embedded into my fabric. It has seen things in me that I didn't know were there until someone in this community pointed them out to me. Chris Vanderslice and Randy Morris saw leadership potential. Ron Keniff helped me build it. Roger came
112in and gave me all the tools I need to become the next superintendent. Thank you to the teachers, support staff, and administrators for giving me the confidence to move forward in the process. Thank you to the board for being a great representation of our district, speaking for all members of our community, and for believing in me enough to give me the opportunity to prove myself worthy. I'm confident that I'm the best person to continue leading our district through the next 5 to 10 years. We've built a great team of administrators, teachers, and support staff that are second to none. We know what needs to be done. We're ready to roll up our sleeves and work together. Grandville has given me opportunity and helped me to become the man I am today. I look forward to
113keeping that culture for our staff to ensure that Grandville remains the best school district in West Michigan. And I thank you. Thank you. We appreciate your interest in our superintendent position and thank you for coming. So I'd like to get all of you to face up your um feedback forms. We'll collect them in just a minute so we can make copies. Thank you, Mark. So, please get those to Mark and we are going to take a quick recess here about 10 minutes. Back in 10 minutes. >> No. >> Mhm. >> Back in order? Thank you. Mark. Okay. Hopefully you've had a chance to look at look at all the feedback from the audience. And typically what we do at this stage is we talk about the strengths that we we liked about the candidate, and
114then we'll also go over any wonderings that we have, kind of get some clarity between the board and for deliberations about what you're thought on on your next move for the for the the superintendency. So, um I guess we could start out. What do you What did you see as strengths? What did you like about what you heard from John? Strengths is his experience in the middle school and up. And and you know, his time in the district and the being in the district and knowing the staff that's here now. Um I will say John has you know, you always you can grow as a person and a leader when you're presented with a challenging situation and how you deal with that. Um he is um what he gave us with regard to uh Wayne
115Vanderslice um was diagnosed with leukemia and then he was the principal at the middle school and the high school for a period of time and that was incredibly incredibly challenging period for this district. Plus everything else that we had with the number of uh student tragedies that occurred during that period of time. And we had it he had to step up. And um it was a time when this district came together well and a part of that is superintendent but it's it was his leadership in the high school that um helped bring that together. So I I consider that a huge strength for John. The people side of things being from the the human resources, having the human resources experience in dealing with the conflicts and so on that occur there is I would see
116as a as a big strength. Yeah and to build on what you mentioned about you know the situation with Vanderslice and you know the loss of um Aarons and and then you know Fisher and so forth. I mean that was a tough time and I did appreciate the reflection of hey what worked and what didn't work, right? Um I think when you look at it yeah sometimes you want to plan, you want to put the best best plan in the world together and sometimes it doesn't work, right? And you just got to get out there and figure it out. Um that if walls could tell me that know, tweak the car in the garage all you want, but at some point you got to run around the track to see if it's actually going to
117work and see what it looks like. And that's, you know, it showed that yeah, hey, we can sit in this conference room and try to put a plan together, but we got to get out there and figure out what's going on with kids, what's going on with their staff. And, you know, that reflected also in the situation it sounds like they had at Century Park. And then hey, how do we adapt and change for when you have the next situation that comes? And that's what you've got to be able to do in a leadership position like this. Uh I appreciate that he, through several of his answers and his materials, he appears to kind of always be engaged in his own professional development. So, learning a new skill set, uh taking time, so learning the
118HR position from being a built up building principal, learning more about finance. So, I do think it's that continuous growth. Um and I think there's evidence of that sort of throughout most of his responses. I appreciated um uh similarly his willingness to pivot and have that flexibility when needed. Um if you're seeing something that's not working, to be able to uh say call it what it is and then to make the changes necessary or at least seek advice. It seemed um often he referred to bringing some of the stakeholders in on the conversations of how that looks like and and how to go forth from there. I have a couple of things that I was trying to write down here. Um Uh I do appreciate having been on this board now for 5 and 1/2
119years. His his COVID response and his response to different things in legal and he's extremely professional and balanced when it comes to we know that we have a very large community and I I really appreciated him during those times when we were at the helm and it felt like the world was on fire around us and it was very calm and he was very rational about um what does the law say? What can we do? How can we work with people? So, I appreciate that a lot about John. Um I like that he gave specific examples of improvement in the high school with our SATs and working with Adam. Um I like that he is willing to start reevaluating issues that some people are nervous about rightly so. Um I also like that he is,
120you know, I'm sort of in that same phase of life as John and when he says that he's ready to reconnect because he does have that a little bit more freedom than when you have younger kids and you're doing all of that stuff and he's ready to reconnect with the district. He's ready to go full on into those events. Um that that's one of the things I love greatly about Roger. He's visible everywhere. And I I think he is right. He's he's been in that HR role 25% of the time working with people's um concerns and this way he can connect in a different more visible maybe more meaningful for other people, but I like that. I like that he's willing to do all those things. Anything else anybody feels? Um his his letters of
121recommendation are stellar. Um Oops. In particular, the one from Greg Warsen. So, Greg lives in the district. Um raised his kids in the district. Um and uh he he basically mentored John uh in his program in the programs at Grand Valley and um one of the things in Greg's letter that he talked about um that when he was talking about contract negotiations and um some of the simulations that they did in their courses he said um he's referring to John. He served as a model for his colleagues in the course. And those on his team said exactly that that he did serve as that model. So, it it ties to what Amy said of continuous improvement. >> Mhm. And you know, it's it's shown and seen by others that he connects with. You know what
122I think you know you and outside of the interview process, right? I mean, this is the advantage of having an internal candidate, right? Cuz we've seen uh John for many years, right? And and having, you know, spoken to and connected with, you know, many individuals out there about different situations. The one that comes to mind is outside the box thinking, right? Hey, we've got a problem in front of us. Reaching out to those stakeholders and saying, "Hey, how do we how do we figure this out, right?" And comment was, "Well, hey, how is someone else doing this?" Hey, fine. Let's go to a couple of districts. Let's see how they're tackling these problems, right? And how do we, you know, come forward with the best answer that fits for Grandville, right? And that's an important
123I'll say skillset to be able to say, "We don't have all the answers." Right? We You know, we've got a lot of very talented people here within our district. We've got a lot of talented people here in this building and in all of our buildings, but we don't necessarily have all the answers. And when that person gave me that example of someone willing to go outside to figure out what's the best out there, how do we bring that in? That's really important and that's what I I look for in a leader, right? Someone who doesn't necessarily have all the answers and That's okay. We can't be an expert in everything nor should we be expected to be. But we got to find ways to surround ourselves with people that are strong in the areas that
124we're not necessarily good at, we might not be, and how do we rely on those experts to help us continue to get better and continue to grow as a district. You know, one of the thing um and it was it was in my question with regard to Ron Caniff versus Roger uh with the development styles um and you think of our uh administration team for the most part I I put them at an exceptional level. Um the amount of teamwork they work with each other, how they communicate with each other um you know Ann Waldy phenomenal. Alan Bosker, what a great hire, right? They love him at Comins. So, you look at you look at the building principals and how each building really doesn't flare up much from inside. They're fairly stable. You don't hear
125that. I mean, you always you're always going to get a little. But overall, the buildings are very stable. I mean it it it just is and that is based on that team. And John's a part of that team, and then John would be leading that team. I think one of the issues that we addressed in the survey that was given was in terms of his um personability. I'll just put it like that and and um John is uh very approachable. I've not had tons of conversations with him, but whenever I have, it's been very easy to talk to him, and clearly he was able to um uh I felt be honest and and you know, as real as you can be in in given an interview setting um with his own um feelings about his
126personal life and um the role that working in Granville has played in his life, and I thought that was a strength. Just I mean, just to add to that, when I've talked with John the last 5 and 1/2 years, is when you know, a difficult topic comes up, I find when when I talk to him, he always comes back to what he says, "Well, what is best for the district?" It's not like this is what I think or or this is what I want to do. He he said it several times on, you know, what what do you think is best for the district? And then you know, that's you know, that's what we should do. That's the direction we should go. Which I have appreciated. You know, I do want to read something. Um
127Joe Steffan is one of our board members, um hasn't been able to be with us for a couple weeks now, um but he did send a note and and asked us to, you know, to read this, so I will do that. So, just uh is to the school board president, myself, and the school board partners. Um as you know, uh, medical issue has limited my contributions to most, uh, this most important process. Choosing a superintendent is our main job as board members. Not fully participating has been painful for me personally. Uh, I know John is well-trained, personable, and has our students and staff in his best interest, and will continue to carry on our dis- carry our district forward. I reviewed John's information he submitted and solidified my hum- humble perspective to express my approval,
128uh, to hire John Fiala as our next superintendent. So, I did want to share that. You know, and I think, again, I I want to go back to that. I think that's one of the pro- one of the big pros, right? Is it we know John, right? And when you look at our survey, right? You know, one of the main items there was someone who knows our district and and knows us, right? Who we are and who we want to be. Um, and you know, so I I think that just bears repeating, um, you know, and and bringing us back to those points that we've heard. Right? And through our surveys and so forth. So. Thank you for for reading that. And I do want to add, you know, you do have the luxury of
129uh, I'm sure many people here know John also, but um, you know, the interview was just one piece of what you do in this process. So, and I know you've taken the time to look at a lot of different pieces, the the submitted materials, and and you also know him from his work in the district. So, I appreciate that you've all reflected on that as well. Um, I think we we can keep going on his strengths, I'm sure, but uh, we always tell ourselves that I think it's time we can also look at what are the wonderings? What are the like, what do we kind of wonder about this about John? Um, but I think he should as board members be able to talk talk about that, so you got that clear and out in
130the open as well. I I I mentioned that his strength is from K or from middle school up. I think an opportunity is experience with the K4. He you know, he didn't work in that and a lot of his questions, his answers revolved around the middle school and above. I I agree. I think that's critical. Um K4 K6 is a different world um around standards, curriculum, etc. than when you get into middle secondary. Um and so I think that might be an area that it would be worth him getting additional professional development working to develop some of those skills and experiences. Um because I do think that's a critical need right now that we have at the district level. Mhm. Um I just think as a district currently and hopefully it changes is the um
131the determination of um when a student is special needs and what those services should be. I still think we got to do what's best for the student and the family. Uh and then the other students. But um I think that's a challenge the district has. I'm not saying that's an that that's a deficit for John. I'm saying that's a that's that's an issue that I have heard and would just like it carried forward um post um this process. Yeah, and I I I would say I I I appreciated the answer when we talked about curriculum, right? If there was one out there that was perfect everyone would use it, right? And so yeah, there's the the K through you know, four curriculum questions and and and experience, right? That we have, right? I think we're
132probably not alone, right? But yeah, we have it. I think it's something we got to really invest in and and figure out how do we, you know, what is it, right? Right? How That's probably some place someone's going to have to spend some time, right? For sure. Yeah. And and the thing that I I guess I would want to see that I wonder about is um the willingness to hear with open ears. And and maybe he will, but to hear with open ears the very deep um concerns that some of our staff have regarding what they're being asked to do with their students with materials that they don't have or they have to generate themselves. And um I think that that is a very big reality that I think I don't I don't know if
133if I didn't really hear John address that specifically other than saying more generically that there are holes or gaps or, you know, as we're trying out curriculum that's not working, you know, how to pivot with with that. Um but I I did want to hear more about specifically how that key component to educating our kids is going to be managed as a superintendent um would need to with his or her staff. That was something that >> I Sorry. I'm kind of confused. >> Yeah, sorry. Well, sorry. Yeah. I I didn't follow that. I apologize. What key component and what was the >> The The curriculum and what has been expressed >> Yeah. to a number of us members >> Yeah. that there are definitely some um deficits Yeah. >> that they are experiencing as educators.
134Yeah. And um their feelings regarding what they perceive as being a lack of support, lack of training, um lack of materials in general in some cases, depending on the situation and how that's going to be addressed. I think that's a pretty big big issue that we we need to hear from the superintendent how he or she is going to address that. That's what I was saying. Yeah. And I think what we can do in those situations, right, is how how have situations under, you know, especially under his control, right, how have those been addressed? So, I was going to say like You know, and what's the history? I don't know like internally in the school how much like the we've heard all all of I don't know if all of us, but several of us
135heard the issues with the curriculum in in elementary and how much of that falls on John's shoulders in his current role and how much of it doesn't. I mean my Right. I'm not saying that he's currently in charge of that. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying is we are considering cuz we're wondering about how he's going to deal with things as in the position of superintendent. Am I correct? Okay. So, that's where I'm putting that situation in. If he's But definitely we've heard that. Yeah. Right. Yeah. No, and and and that's where I say we To me what you do then is you look at situations, how he has addressed it for those items that were in his purview. Certainly. And that would be hopefully those experiences and those are a leading indicator
136of how the new change is >> what I'm just going to say more pointedly is I wanted to hear specifically um an understanding and a concern about what is being expressed Yeah. >> by our staff members um in he- us hearing Yep. their concerns about curriculum. I guess I wanted to hear a little bit more addressing that. >> I I do want to be careful with that because again, you know, we've had a superintendent that's been in the place for how long, right? And that those concerns have not been anything that we've raised to say, "We need to address this, and this is going to be a mark or a point of emphasis that needs to happen for the current superintendent." So, I'm not sure how it all of a sudden now I just want
137to be careful and say this isn't something I mean it's it's a challenge for anybody that comes in this role, right? But it's a it's a new one because we haven't identified it in the last 12 years. But that that that goes to some of the concerns that a number of people have expressed as we've seen. >> not saying it's not a concern. >> Well, okay, but what what I'm wanting to finish saying is that do you're you're juxtaposing what is versus how we're looking at the future. Is that correct? Am I correct in what you're No, what I'm saying I'm I'm saying is that there's there's I feel like it's a okay, hey, there's nothing's nothing's nothing's going to change, right? But it's not been raised as an issue that we've addressed with our
138current superintendent. So, I think it's I I don't think it's fair to raise it as a concern for the future superintendent before they even had a chance to really influence it or to address it when we haven't even addressed it with our current superintendent because it hasn't been an issue. It hasn't been identified as an issue. I don't know if that makes sense, but it's almost like we're projecting Yeah, it's almost like we're projecting onto some the candidate something they haven't had the chance to to address or get into or hasn't been raised risen as a as an issue before. That's all I'm saying. I I hear what you're saying. I guess though this event of hiring a new superintendent has opened an avenue by which people have been invited to express their thoughts, feelings,
139and concerns. And so, maybe it's not been spoken out loud, but I I do believe that the concern has been there for longer than just this brief period of time that we started the search. May I put in So, I'm sorry to interrupt. No, it's quite all right. But, I think there was one statement on a lot of It was on one of these statement sheets that we got from the participants in our um in our audience. And it was, "I'm not sure John realizes what the disconnect is." And so, that is very different than knowingly knowingly having that disconnect. I think that's what you're saying. >> Mhm. And what you're saying is the disconnect is there. >> Right. And some are saying they've tried, and some are saying And the question was posed, right?
140So, >> Yeah, and the question was posed, "This is what has been expressed. You as as the superintendent, how will you address what's being perceived in our in our educational community?" That was the question that was posed in the interview. And so, that's what I was looking for in an answer in terms of how that is going to be tackled as his role as a superintendent. Um my thought on that, I would categorize it very similar to uh my special ed concern. And it is a concern to log, potentially create if we do the 5-year plan, or the goals that we'll set for the superintendent that we set every year. And we If the board decides to establish that as a goal, then we would. Um I I think to to and have a solution
141in an interview uh is an expectation that would have been hard to meet. I'm not sure why you say that because some of our questions said, "What would be the four things or what steps would you take to address something?" >> And he did. He talked about process to be able to identify them. But you just said that it was unfair to ask that. So, I'm I'm addressing that conversation. >> saying that. I'm saying as a as a categorization of uh of uh What category are we in here, Mark? Improvement opportunities. >> Wondering. Opportunity. So, this is an opportunity for uh a focus. Just like where I'm at with special ed. Um I still don't see how he broke down the process of how We started it with with Roger with Ron. We really got
142into hyperdrive with Roger with regard to MTSS looking at the data and trying to generate points to derive curriculum. And it's an it's a evolving process. And I I think we've placed it as a focus uh as an area of opportunity for him. And And I don't necessarily see it as a deficit. I see it as he told us how he would attack it to try and understand it and build a process out for that and hopefully build a solution. So, if I can piggyback onto that, um when I looked at the key issues that I think are important either in our sheets from the community or things that we had brought up. We all brought up elementary ed disconnect. And we all brought up and Bob brought up special ed. And um some people
143in here have brought up it just feels very data heavy instead of personal heavy. But that I think that's something where what I said is that he's willing to go out and connect again. And I think that I think HR by nature is not fully connect cuz you're getting all of those complaints, right? So I I agree with him when he said, you know, he's a he's a hockey guy who's learned how to kind of get a thick skin. You you do that stuff, right? Um and I looked at each of these different sections, curriculum, right? We've got Amy who can really be the person who spearheads spearheads that interest. We got Bob who wants to spearhead the interest into special education, right? Um Sally, you've been elementary ed. I'm I am a little concerned
144about diversity issues, more than a little. I'm actually quite a bit concerned about diversity issues in our district um when it comes to um economic diversity, racial ethnic diversity, what's happening to our immigrant families, all of that stuff. So those are different categories that each of us when we talk about this board being really diverse and having a lot of input, I do feel like we're going to be close enough to that where I I do believe John listens to try and understand where we are concerned most. And it seems like those categories that each of us represent showed up in these in these um pages, you know? So I to piggyback off what Bob said, yeah. Um I think that putting our HR assistant superintendent in charge of curriculum doesn't make right? But, um
145I I I would like to work with him more on diversity issues and the curriculum issues and elementary ed issues. I also think he's capable of hearing us. So, look, I'm going to piggyback on you now. Okay. We could leapfrog, actually. John John did give an example of curriculum. Uh he talked about when he was a science teacher in the middle school and how he created his mini curriculum that he wanted to pass. Then take it one step back or one step more uh in the leadership side is when um Adam was managing the science piece or the AP piece in the high school and he tasked him with bringing that curriculum together when the standards changed. So, I think I think John easily has the capability. I'm just going to say easily. That I'm
146not afraid of that word with John. Um it it's it just needs to be the opportunity for improvement that we provide him. And I like that he was honest that his method failed. Yep. Yeah. It failed because it wasn't collaborative. Correct. It was directive. Mhm. Yeah. So, one of the things that's challenging, I think, and when we hear about sort of for someone coming in as an internal candidate, is it it's sort of easy to to step into that role and kind of keep things going, which I think is a benefit. But, I think it's going to be important for him to come into this role um and really try to get feedback and listen um with an open mind. Um so, you know, kind of say like let's start fresh. I want to hear
147from our teachers. I want to hear from our community members. And I think it'll be important for him to actively seek out input as opposed to waiting for people to come to him. I think that's just the better way to do it. I think too with a lot of our families who come from more diverse backgrounds, I think that is what needs to happen is is we need him to kind of reach out. And I think that will really serve someone well in this position cuz it's very easy to be in one part of a district and not see everything, you know, throughout the entire district. But as superintendent, that is what he is going to have to do. So, I think taking those steps would would be really important. And I I don't see
148any evidence that he would not do that. I I think he does appear to be kind of willing to listen and seek out input. And when you translate >> up diversity though, the answer was pretty much data driven based on the MTSS data. And remember that? That's I I remember the example he used with all of his different beliefs and and stuff like that here at central office. And how they were going to >> when when you asked about diversity, the answer was to derive the data from the MTSS data. Correct? Am I Am I wrong? I think there was two There was another one on diversity. You are correct. Okay. I think that likely refers to our climate survey, which does get at those those some of those concerns. But then again, there are
149questions about like how well is that survey? >> back to Mark's directive to us to use this time to do wondering, and that's what I'm trying to do. I'm not trying to worry down anybody else's feelings. My wondering was, you know, I did that I my observation was that I did not hear that I would that he would seek deliberately to pull in people from diverse backgrounds into conversations regarding the current state of our of our of district and what that means for our subgroups whether it's a socioeconomic or ethnic group or special ed. I I guess I that's my wondering was is that going to be something that he would deliberately do. I had a person on the way into this very evening say to me that that was something that was a great
150concern of his is that there is so little ethnic diversity and let's face it. I think if I am not correct, I'm the first person of color to sit on this board. In the history of Granville schools. So I get it. So I think that you know, the point is if we're wondering are we going to see that kind of deliberate action in if he were to become superintendent. He gave the example of the student leadership group to Yeah. share you know, his how how he's doing that but I it probably would be beneficial to expand that to parent groups. I agree. And he did talk about that. So he did talk about that. He said there was a need to work with groups and or subgroups depending on that particular task for that. And
151he didn't say minority but for that subgroup um and to try and guide the dialogue through common commitment. You know? Uh the whole piece he also talked about uh how do we respond and recycle common goals? Right? So then he kept going he went back to that. Um and then as a subgroup to Sally's add-on, he talked about utilizing uh the student voice. And And I I think I was just going to say I think you know, the beauty of some of this this conversation, right? And the beauty of the board, and you guys have touched on it a little bit, right? Is is I I look at it and is is John's Is Is Is John a candidate? Is someone the trust that we see that you know, can do the job the way
152that but also is someone that's going to take that input and take that direction, because that's what we do, right? We set that direction. We set the goals. You guys have talked about the goals, right? So And we had talked about our own failure of sometimes our own failure of looking at curriculum or looking at some of these issues that we do on on reviews, right? I want to add a little bit to the fact that I think that we have a really good example in that Roger every year came with a new book that he had read to help expand himself. He works with the students. He goes to different, you know, of course they go to superintendent meetings. Um I believe that those are things that will still I think he admires Roger
153enough to emulate those really positive steps. I know on the diversity issue, I know one of our elementary schools right now is having a focus group on diversity issues, listening to black voices. And so that's those are things that I think are Like like we said before, I'm not sure he understands the disconnect. Can we help him understand the disconnect? Is that the type of person John is? Exactly. Thank you. That's where I was going with that. The reason is that we can set those directions, and then we hold accountability. We hold accountability to whether or not meeting those goals. That we have. it. So, by the way, I just add kind of in in my time of doing this there's not been a single candidate that we there's gets talked about the word when
154they don't have wonderings about them. So, this is very common. So, I when we do it, I want you to know that part of the reason you do it is is just that. Are these some things that we would that you would work with the superintendent whoever it may be, that these are some goals we want to work at. So, that's part of the re- why we do the the wonderings. And there's not a single one out there that might have or who got all done and there was not a single wondering by the board um or questioned by the board about any the candidate they hired. So, I just wanted to keep that in mind. This is a great conversation, but I just wanted you know, really you look at it and you also
155look at the wonderings are they enough to say is there enough there on any one candidate to say this person is not a fit. Um and so I think you're asking the right questions. Can we if we didn't hear that do we believe he has it in him to to uh be coached up of what we would like to see as a board uh in those situations. So, um I just want to put that out there. That's kind of why you do the wonderings. And there's never been a candidate yet that has not had wonderings from the board. Um you know, it's it's um And they don't have to be viewed as negative. Is that what you're trying to say? That's what I I guess it Yeah, that's it's quite a Cuz I'm not anything
156that I've said I'm not trying to say in a negative light. I'm trying to say that these are the things that have been brought up. These are the things that kind of roll around in my head and clearly in other people's heads as well. And so I think it's only fair to bring that up. Right. Yes. Yes. That's all. Um that being said, I think one of the things that we should talk about as a board that I know that people in our community are really wondering about is the fact that we only have one candidate and that we are not searching outside of um our district. And I just feel like it's our responsibility to talk about the pros and cons of that in a public forum here so that we can um express
157some of our thinking in that regard. Does that seem like a you know, something that we could do here? I don't know. Well, it's at this point, right? Your Your question's been asked, so. Well, I just it seems like I can >> I can I can certainly give my Yeah, I can certainly give my perspective, right? I mean >> Good. When you look at, you know, especially when you look at the the survey results, right? One of the things was, you know, someone that knows us, right? That was a big That was a big item for people all the way around, right? And they said, "Hey, what do We want someone who's going to continue on the exact same path or continue on the path and, you know, make some minor tweaks, right?" It wasn't
158a time to overflip the apple cart, basically. 85%. Yeah, it was 85%. 84 and some change, I think, right? Or 85 You know, maybe a little bit over 85. But yeah, so 85%, right? Um and when you How am I going to put it? It is the perspective is when you look outside, right? To different industries and so forth. When things are working right for a company, right? They are very proud from within. We're about being proud to promote from within and help grow people. John, I think is a great example of that, right? With someone who started out as a teacher, started out as a sub back in the day, it sounded like at Kelloggsville, right? A permanent sub and moved into a teaching role, then moved into a assistant principal somewhere here, moved
159into moved into HR and so forth and grew. So, many times when look at the biggest and best companies out there, they grow from within. When Disney went to hire their next person, they didn't go outside. They tried that earlier a few years back if anyone follows that stuff, and it didn't go very well, right? It didn't go very well. So, they came back and brought the old guy back in. I don't want to bring Raj back in. I'm joking. Uh um you know, so but they they they promote from within, right? Because again, it's someone who understands that Disney model, understands the the the the DNA and the fabric of where they are. If we didn't have that type of person, if I, you know, wasn't confident in in Roger's development and witnessing with
160my own eyes over the last how many years it's been, 8 years now, right? Uh um the growth of our administrators, the growth of our team, and how not only John, but our our our principals and the rest of the team has developed, that's what gives me confidence in the fact that yes, we have candidates from from within who who can do the job, right? Now, I also had a boss once tell me, right? If if you're ready to take the next job, it's too late, right? You always got to be able to grow. You always got to be able to continue to be able to do more and and and knock off some of the rough edges, right? Uh uh as you grow. And I think I you know, John's there. I think John's
161right there, right? Are there things that we got to knock off, you know, uh and and round off and and polish them up a little bit, uh not necessarily in his presentation skills, but in knowledge-wise? Absolutely. Those are the things we think we're identifying. But that's how I look at it, right? Is, you know, you build that strong team from within, and that's the way the most successful places do it. If we needed to overturn the apple cart, I would say absolutely, we got to go outside, cuz this place is broken and we're going in the wrong direction. But I think all of our survey results and our our awards and our our accolades that we've gotten over the last how many years, right? Show us that we're going in the right direction. But And
162to actually support what you're saying, um Mark, could you tell us again how many community or surveys in total have we received back from the community? I want to say there was 333 or 35, something like Okay, and that includes, just for public record, that includes the entire community of Granville schools and all of its staff, even though they are not, some of them are not residents in Granville. So, I just wanted to make sure that people understood that. >> was all and you had mentioned that was a very robust turnout from what your experience >> Yes, from what we've seen our last couple years, that was a very good turnout. You know, one of the there's there's a couple things tied to this, internal, external. And I'm going to say I'm uniquely qualified to
163talk about it. Um When we go when we've gone outside it's because the leadership isn't where the board wants it to be. Um And my question with regard to Ron versus Roger and the whole development piece you know Granville, we say it, do we believe it? I believe it. Granville is a destination district. And why? It's the staff, it's admin, it's community. But um when Roger came on board again it took it took it took some discussions with Ron to think okay, Ron, why aren't you developing people? Why why are we when I first got on the board, if if a principal or assistant principal in at any level left this district I mean, administration was angry at them. They're never coming back here. And it's almost like, now wait a minute, that's their life.
164Let them grow. But, why did they leave? Cuz we didn't help them. And I mean, really. I mean, it's Think of uh Think of cheerleading. Just look at Boyd Smith. I mean, come on. She's been doing it now for what? 30, 32 years? And how many of her students are now all over West Michigan. It's the same thing. We create great leaders. Whether they're teachers, whether they're administrators. And there's an advantage to us. And I think it keeps us focused and on that course to maintain the term destination district. And I I agree with you. I really do. And I think the issue that some people are bringing up regarding this though is that there's one. And there's nothing to compare to. And and that for some people is in a question mark of like
165we saw in the comments, are we are we getting the best of the best? And that's I guess, you know, something where we're going to have to determine you know, if our one candidate is the best of the best. Sometimes I think perspective from people who are outside of where we're sitting, it's going to be hard for them to say that you don't know. I mean, it's going to be easy to find and say, how would you know? You don't have anybody to compare to. And I think that's the question that people have been bringing up to me several times. And I think we saw that a number of times in the the comments as well. And I Yeah, that's I get I guess I'm just trying to be a mouthpiece for you know, just
166say so that at least you know, people know that we're talking about what they're commenting on. So how would you answer that? I I I have told people this. I am going to look at Jen's resume, his qualifications, his letters of recommendation, and then evaluate his interview, and I'm going to make the most objective decision that I possibly can based on those factors. And if I feel that more of them weigh towards him being hired, he will get my vote. If I were to think that they were more weighing on a negative, he would not. So that's how I'm going to do that. I think that's hopefully how I would do it if we had two candidates as well. But I'm I'm just addressing some of the concerns, the wonderings that other people have about
167that process. And and that's my response to anybody who's asking me how I'm going to make my decision. I would hope that that's all how we would do that even tonight or you know, if this were to to carry on. So one additional comment based on that. Um this board has information the public does not have, the staff does not have. We have this information. So we are more informed. Um I have no qualms. I have no regrets. I've heard from staff want to go outside. I've heard from citizens that want to go outside. Why didn't you? Why didn't you? This is the best. We're on a positive course. We I mean, you look at what we're doing with curriculum. It It It isn't the best, but the processes that are in place to try
168and dissect and build the amount of communication that goes on amongst our administration Believe it or not, I I mean it's it's phenomenal. As a board, you used to say, "Okay, here's a curriculum thing." And they would present it to you, and then you'd hear from the from the schools, and they'd go, "What What is this? Where is the information? How am I supposed to do this? I'm not fully informed. Even the PD is not enough." Now, it's it's it's a it's a group effort to try and improve that, and that's been an improvement in this district over the years, and it started with Roger. Ron didn't do it. It came from Roger. And I I For me, I want to continue Roger's legacy, cuz I think John is part of that legacy, and John
169would crew John would create his own legacy in a very short period of time. You know, the training wheels are going to be on for a little bit, but they aren't going to be on for long, and I have no doubt. Um he's it. I mean, you look at Okay, another comment from Greg. John would be a tremendous asset to any district. But given his experience in Grandville and his varied roles in education, he is a natural fit for our district and community. Remember, Greg Warsen still lives in Grandville. So, just a comment I'd to add on with Roger's I mean, Roger I don't know this for a fact, but I get the perception Roger's the de facto kind of leader of the supes for the Kent Ottawa County. Mhm. He is. And Roger highly
170recommends John. And has men- mentored him for a number of years. So, that's a a big factor that contributes to that is I mean, all of the other superintendents, from what I gather, I mean, look up to Roger for for advice. And John's had the benefit of being in those meetings and uh being a part of that. And has had super superintendent kind of training things that, you know, but I think one of the things that cuz I've been mulling this over a lot, too. We hear from a lot of people. I completely understand it. Um the comment, if he's the best, then so be it, but we but you know, we tried that out with another candidate. And I I landed on the fact that yes, we had 85% of that 300 survey, which
171is still a small fact. Which which shows that I which I believe shows we have a district the majority of the district is very satisfied. And also satisfied with John. Um Regardless of that, I do think that when you have someone who's from within the district even if we have curriculum problems and special ed problems and diversity problems and at any of these other problems, it's still going to take a new person at least 2 years to figure out people, figure out the systems, do It would not be an immediate fix. And so, if we're looking at efficiency, if we're looking at um I hadn't even really actually thought about the fact that Roger is the super of the supers, right? And he is one of our letter of recommendations for John. Um I mean,
172I would be lying if I said I hadn't been mulling this over with a lot of you know, internal conflict as well. But when you weigh everything I I believe that he can do the most in the most efficient amount of time, as well. If we're looking at and especially now, there's really no excuse for us as a board not to know what is going on. Mhm. Because some of these things come up and we're like, "Wow, I didn't realize The person who said, "I'm not sure he knows the disconnect." I'm not sure we as a board knew the disconnect. And I think that um as hard as that's been, as how much friction it's caused, nothing grows if it's not faced. And I think we faced a lot of stuff in these surveys, in
173these listening sessions, in these pieces of paper from the audience. I really think that that's where growth happens, right? In those uncomfortable conversations. And I think that even if we did extend that process out into another person as a candidate goes, we're not going to see change within two, maybe three years, right? You have to learn the systems, you have to learn the people, and this is a big district. I agree with that. And I I do think it's when we're looking at what are the specific areas where we want to further develop this district, and we want to be addressed. I do think we are set up well um if we have John come in and can continue to start working on these problems, Hannah. Um when you go external, um one of the
174things that's challenge challenging in in districts, we see this all over the state, is people can interview well. Um and then they get into the district and it's kind of a train wreck. Um there's no guarantees. Um and I would say for a lot of types of these roles as superintendents, they tend to go poorly you know, pretty frequently. And so I think bringing someone in from the outside when we have someone who's willing to who has skills, who has an openness to be working with staff on these things would be a very risky decision. Because yeah, maybe you could end up with someone great, but you could also end up with someone that's not great, and then it could actually cause more problems. And so, I think given where we're at as a district,
175this feels sort of like it makes the most sense to me. And we are in I mean, all schools everywhere are in some very, very conflicting times right now. Um and I think that's an honest conversation that we have had with John as um as our assistant superintendent, too. So, um he's not ignorant to these problems that all schools are facing, but specifically for us. And I think that whoever we were to hire, we need to empower that person to be brave enough, and daring enough to make the changes that need to occur. Whatever that looks like. And I think that, you know, having a previous relationship with John is a positive in that regard because he's heard us talk. He knows who we are and what we're about, and I think honest conversations can
176happen a little bit more easily that way. Um the other side of that is, you know, Roger was an outside hire, and we ended up winning, you know, pretty big with that one. So, there's that, too. I I just want to say that out loud cuz I know a lot of people have expressed that to me as well. But, uh yeah, there's definite pros and cons to both sides of that decision. All right. So, had a lot of discussion. Anybody have anything else they want to add? Um I want to thank Roger for everything he's done for us as a district, as a board. Um It's Um when you leave a board meeting and there's usually maybe maybe two modes for me. I'm either frustrated or I'm happy. I've been happy a lot lately. So,
177I like I like that. So, I want to thank Roger for that. Don't you like still got 3 months left, don't you? I know. Getting all mushy. All right. Does anybody have any motions? Um I will make the motion. One second, please. It is recommended uh This is an odd recommendation. I recommend that uh the board um vote to enter into contract negotiations with John Filo to be the next superintendent of Grandville Public Schools. I second it. All right. Discussion. >> turn it to discussion on that. Who's going to make >> I I think it's I think it's the right I think it's the right move for us. I think it's the right move for us for all the the we've talked about. Not sure what more I can say. I think it is the
178right move and the board now has the um job to see the work that we find important to be completed. That's a good way of saying it. Well put. Oh, thanks, Paul. And I would concur with that and just publicly to make a that commitment to our constituents and to our staff that we are going to follow through with that very thing. Any discussion? All right, let's do a roll call. All right. Campa. Yes. Gardine. Yes. DeHaan. Yes. Councilor Wondergem. Yes. Manak. Yes. Highberger. Yes. Motion passes. All right. WE NOW MOVE ON TO PUBLIC COMMENT. WE HAVE one person that was signed up, uh Mike Cobb. Is Mike still here? Fantastic. Mike, you have 5 minutes. Hey, Mike. Hey, Paul. Uh Amy will keep track of the time and she will give you a warning
179at 1 minute. Hi, Mike Cobb, 336240 A Street um in Grandville. Uh this is my fifth um superintendent interviews. Uh it's kind of after the fact now, but I think John's a great choice uh in the fact that Randy Morris was my neighbor and um he kind of groomed Mr. Merkel, Adam, Mr. Kennedy, Mr. Vanderslice, and Yeah, I don't think you can go wrong. I'm more for an inside person. Ron Caniff, I wasn't a fan. Took him almost 6-8 months to get up to speed before he met people, did things just like you had mentioned. Um Yeah, my wife is a 40-year employee as a school bus driver. Um I know we have Tim and and Bob here, some old board board members. Um Yeah, I I just don't think you can go go wrong
180with John. Like I say, he's a people person. He handled the Chris Vanderslice thing just excellent. When Chris went down being sick and um Yeah, I think you made a great choice. So, thank you. Thank you. All right. And just one last item, I just want to thank all the board for your time. This has been a a process and a half for sure. So, I appreciate you guys and all your time and efforts and heart and soul you put into all this. It was a lot. It was a lot of work. Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you, Jason, for leading as a president. I know it was a lot. So, and thank you to the community and and everyone for voicing your opinions. I mean, I don't want you to think we don't
181hear you, right? I mean, your your voices are important. Your views are important, right? And we take all these into consideration when we make our decisions. So, One more thing, real quick. For Mark, our notes are to be given for any potential future FOIA requests. So, I am leaving mine right there, Mark. Mark. All the copies of the everything is The next board meeting of the Granville Board of Education will be a regular meeting on Monday April 20th, 2026 at 7:00 p.m. right here at the administration building. We are adjourned. Mark.