Grandville Board Meeting - Superintendent Search - 3.3.2026

001call meeting order. All rise to the pledge. >> I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. Can we get a roll call? >> Yes. Wonder >> here. >> VC present. Stephus absent. Gardin here. Campo >> here. Dehan >> here. >> Hibbore >> here. Uh, please note as a courtesy of members of the audience of the board of education, please silence your cell phones. Miss Gilre was please silence your cell phone. Hi. Um, the public will only be able to speak uh during public comment if signed up. We have one form. >> That's all. All right. Perfect. Um, okay. Approval of the agenda. Can I get a motion? >> So moved. >>

002I'd like to suggest, however, because of the nature of our discussion that um I would imagine that um Sherry's uh comments might be regarding our work tonight. So, I'm going to move that we have her speak now rather than wait to the end of the night. >> Okay. So, just reorder. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I second that. >> All right. Um, any discussion on that? >> Okay. Those are we vote on that first and then we'll vote on the overall approval agenda. Um, all those in favor? Yes. Opposed? >> Right. That passes. Now we'll approve uh any other discussion on the agenda itself. No. All those in favor? >> Yes. >> Opposed. >> All right. Motion passes. >> So we will move into the public comment section now. And we have one person speaking.

003U Miss Amy Campo will keep track of the time. Um you will have five minutes to speak. >> Yes. You don't have to take it all. Thank you. >> Good evening board. First of all, thank you for all that you do and it is definitely an honor and a privilege to be here. Um I would like to just take a few seconds and just um bend your ear a bit um from a teacher perspective, from a woman of color perspective, from a parent perspective, and then now as a grandparent um perspective. So, as Grand Rapids or excuse me, Granville Public Schools prepares for their um retirement of our wonderful superintendent, um there are some things that I would hope that the incoming leader will step into the district um recognizing. We are highly ranked. We

004have a great reputation of servicing and um preparing our students for the future and I hope that does not change. However, currently approximately 27% of the student body identifies as minority and 31% are economically disadvantaged. So, I have 10 critical points that I would hope that you would consider as we look for our new superintendent. Number one, to close the achievement and proficiency gap. While Ganville Public Schools is recognized for high academic performance, state data often shows disparities. The new superintendent must analyze disagregated data to ensure that minority students who may face higher economic and systemic barriers are meeting the 47% math and 60% reading proficiency benchmarks at the same rate as their peers. Number two, expand access to advanced placement. With 42% of our students taking at least one AP exam, the district is

005ambitious. However, national trends often show minority students are under represented in these courses. The leaders should evaluate enrollment barriers and implement open enrollment or targeted recruitment for minority students in AP and dual enrollment programs. Number two, address the hunger cliff and economic stability. Many families in West Michigan are currently facing a hunger cliff due to shifting food assistant rules. 31% of students qualify for free and reduced lunch price lunch. And the superintendent must strengthen partnerships with organizations like kids food basket to ensure food insecurity doesn't hinder the learning of vulnerable students. Number four, foster a safe and inclusive climate. Granville has faced community debates regarding DEI over the years and DEI initiatives. The new leader must balance these community tensions while prioritizing the emotional and physical safety of all students and as advocated by the

006Granville Educational Association. Number five, combat bullying and racial microaggressions. The district is pre has previously utilized programs to address bullying, but minority students can be particularly susceptible to racial microaggressions or hateful conduct. Ensuring that the non-discrimination policy is not just a document but a lived experience is vital. Number six, diversity diversify the staff and administration. Reviews from students suggest a desire for more diversity not only in the student population but also among staff. A superintendent who priorities recruiting and retaining educators of color can provide minor minority students with mentors who reflect their own backgrounds. Number seven, strengthen the support for ELLL learners. With a notable percentage of families in the area having roots in Asia and Latin America, the superintendent must ensure that ELLL programs are adequately funded and that communication with non-English-speaking parents is

007proactive and accessible. Number eight, early childhood intervention. Statewide data shows that black and Hispanic children in Michigan often have lower enrollment rates in preschool. The new superintendent should focus on cradle to career programs and support um ensuring that minority students are kindergarten ready through expanded early childhood programs. Number nine, transparent use of at risk funding. Michigan's new opportunity index provides more funding for districts with concentrations of poverty. The superintendent should be transparent about how these funds are being used to specifically support the academic and social emotional needs of minority and underresourced students. And number 10, navigating board and community politics. The Granville School Board has seen recent vacancies and spirited community interest in its direction. >> Thank you. >> Sorry. >> And thank you for listening and I appreciate your support. Thank you. >> Thank

008you. >> All right. >> On to the discussion reports the superintendent search and invite Mark up. Um he's going to walk us through the uh the engagement report. Um and then obviously through the next few points of developing the criteria and the interview questions and prep preparation. >> Yes. Uh thank you President Hair. Um, good to be back and you just went over the whole agenda that I was just going to say this is what we're going to do this evening. Um, hopefully uh we will uh get through this in a timely fashion. It can sometimes uh get a little long, but uh we're doing kind of uh two things at once here because we want to go over the data um from the survey um but also prepare interview questions um which I sent

009you samples. So hopefully that'll that'll work out work out well. So um you all should have a a packet in front of you and in that packet you have a hard copy of the survey that I also emailed uh this weekend. Actually I think I emailed you twice because I realized Sunday afternoon I'm looking at at one of the pages like the percentages aren't adding up and then I realized they were calculated wrong. So, I had to contact the main office and have them re redo the that part of it. So, you should have received uh yesterday uh an updated one and and that page is updated in your hard packet cuz I already had the hard packets printed and and stapled together. So, I redid it that one page. Um, you also will have

010the selection criteria that I've developed um that that uh you know we can edit and as you see fit and um and then we'll go over the questions. So that is in your packet and we'll start out by looking at your data and uh we have here uh up on the screen as you can see we had 337 uh respondents for this uh the survey. That's uh what we see that is a high number um over the last few years that I've been doing this. That's um it's sometimes very hard to get staff and community u involved in the survey. So that's uh that's one of the higher ones I've had. And it doesn't seem to matter what size the school district is. Small districts will get larger numbers than sometimes some of my bigger

011districts. So but this is this is one of the this is good participation when we look at just this type of a survey. Um the first thing here it's kind of interesting to look at you know what type of individuals um completed the survey and you can see that out of the 337 um almost 180 were have been in the district in some capacity a resident I should say for more than 10 years. So that's that again uh shows a pretty high interest. Sometimes it's if it's people in the community uh that don't even have children in school, they sometimes don't uh see these things. So when you look at more than 10 years, it's like there's good chance that maybe uh they were someone without children in school. Um the do not live within

012the district that's usually quite often and represent staff because um if they don't live in the district you're not generally aren't going to see this and aren't going to take a survey where you unless you work in the district. Um or if you have I suppose if you have schools of choice students that their their families may take them as well. Come on here. There we go. a little bit of a breakdown of people who worked in the district. Um you can see that uh over half that took it were uh people who work in the district cuz there were just under just under half um did not work at all. And as you can see the breakdown there anywhere from uh quite a few actually for more than 10 years. So that's also a

013nice sign to see. Um, it's also showing me that you have a little bit of a good breakdown of of people who have been in the district for a long time and five to 10 years and so on and so forth. So, >> is that pretty typical when you're looking at how these break down? Is it usually about half and half? >> Um, yeah, I say that's that's somewhat typical. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And this is uh the community member type. Now this is where it gets kind of people always want to know do we know how each do we know how staff answered a question as compared to a non-staff person for example. Um the problem is that gets a little sophisticated in that you choose all the roles that you have. So I

014could be a staff member, a parent or a grandparent. Um uh live in the community. it could have you could fit a lot of these different categories. So that's why we can't break it down and say this is definitely what staff said um or this is definitely what the community is saying. It's just it's a I know it's way beyond my abilities to figure out in a survey. But, uh, I' I've been told many times that the person that does this that you'd have to get a really sophisticated survey and and and it get a little complicated to figure out how each member of the each type of person answered throughout the uh, survey. One thing that I noticed as we go through here that I wanted to point out, I I apologize I forgot

015earlier, but when we looked at we put the original posting up and we used um your advice on what to write in the posting kind of following what we um what you had done in the past, but also knowing your district. I think the data is going to show that you were pretty much right spot on. Um because for example, you wanted uh a master's degree plus administrative certificate and you can see overwhelmingly uh 60% um wanted that as well and um at least a master's degree. This is this is usually how it turns out. Um sometimes the with certifications down a little lower but it's usually tops of the the master's degree experience. Um this is very similar although probably most of the time the experience of prior positions almost the top always the

016top one is that they had been a teacher somewhere along the line. That's a slightly different but I mean it's close. It's 178 people said that. Um, I will say those top four on there are really in the top four and not necessarily in that order, but pretty close to that. Um, so and doesn't surprise me that uh particularly a district such as Granville um would want those same things. So >> Mark, for this question, was it can you remind me what the exact wording was? Was it like choose all you know that you that >> that apply or is it something where it's like choose your top three or >> I'm trying to remember on this one and I I left my survey exact question at home. Oh, wait. I wrote it down. I

017wrote it on this one. because that's the one thing when I get the summaries they don't put the whole question. >> Right. Right. >> Um experience in prior positions. You could choose up to three on this one. So that that's why you get 894 answers. So you could choose up to three areas of expertise. Um usually budget development management is the top one and this was a rate from one to five. So you rated all of these. Um usually it goes uh budget development public relations. Um the top three are always there but always number one almost always is people are concerned that you can manage a budget of a school district. So um >> where does your curriculum develment usually lie? >> It's usually towards the top like that. Um it's like I say

018between public relations and curriculum development those two kind of are interchangeable. >> Mhm. >> Um but yeah it's usually right in that in the top three. Well, when you I mean the thing you look at here whether it falls in the top three or let's say top five um the respondents this is their priority what they're looking for based on the existing admin right what we have and what they want and how they're balancing that. >> Sure. The other the other thing is when you really think about it, it's a fivepoint scale. And how much difference is there between a for example on public relations a 4.16 and a 4.3 when you look at all those there's not a whole lot of not a whole lot of difference in and how people see that. So

019the same for um budget. >> Yeah, that's closer. And then you have the exact numbers if you want because the way it comes out in the survey you could choose critically important, above average, average important, so on and so forth there. Mhm. >> So, I don't know. Some people like to look at that and say they only look at Well, >> yeah. I think that that makes it actually look much closer than the previous because we're looking at a fivepoint difference as opposed to public relations which was 137, which is >> a much bigger um spread between budget and that. So, yeah. Interesting. >> Leadership styles. I think if you remember uh one of the lines in your what you're asking for is someone that is collaborative and um it appears that 220 other people

020also thought the same thing. And um just as an I just so you know this one you were to choose up to two different leadership styles on this. Um collaborative is usually high quite up there a bit. Um once in a while if you want a district that really wants to go in a different direction, you'll see transformational leadership um a little higher. Um but typically um collaborative is is uh what people like to see. >> Well, and you also look at transformational people always looking for the best, >> right? >> I mean we say we're a destination district. So at some point you do want that character trait, >> right, >> that they are going to help transform. >> Yeah. And when I read that question too, it was um or the response to

021that question, right? It was more >> Yeah. who doesn't want someone wants to lead them into the future, right? I mean, it's not like, you know, to your point, it's not like, oh yeah, we got to flip over the apple cart and start a new, right? It's more who wants someone to lead them into the future and inspire their team. >> Yeah. >> Well, and that's every I mean, that's what you want, right? >> What's your what's your top priority? Oh, by the way, it's still there on the pinky, >> right? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Well, in reality, most people aren't going to fit in exactly into one of these styles. Often times, they're going to have >> they're going to have to move. >> I would say though, I think that based on what I've

022heard, transformational has a little spectrum of meaning there. >> Right. Right. Good. >> I'm just saying the explanation next to it. >> And I get I get that. >> Yeah. Mhm. Okay. Experience in uh experiences in skill areas. Um this again is again rating um from one to five and there are many more that in the numbers there. There's more we only list for the grant purposes so everybody can read it. Um the top ones there but if you want the real breakdown it's on the next page. Um and uh it's uh typically people like them exceedingly responsive. Um >> they people like to know that they've been heard and they they they >> bring something to your leader that uh they've been heard and it's recognized and person follows up. Um, another big one

023that's it's comes through is recognize values and affirm staff members. And so that's uh I I believe you had that on your original posting as well. Um, so it's just good to I guess I point that out because I'm kind of validating what you thought it would be. Um, but it's good to have that affirmation um, as well. Well, let me touch on that for a second. So, back three, four, superintendents, Dwayne Sheldon. Um, there was a definite divide. I'm going to say there was a admin staff perspective. You felt it in the district. Now, I only had young children at the time. Um, and the board felt that. So, when future superintendent came in, part of that selection criteria, that's what we were looking for. we were looking for. >> That's why collaboration comes

024into play and you know build a team don't just be a 91. So I and I think our specifically our last two superintendent have done a very good job of doing that. >> That's a again a breakdown for you if you have that. Can you just explain real quick on that breakdown? Just trying to understand how how do you get the numbers? >> Like how do you give this a value of 190? >> Oh, that's how many people. So your areas are critically important above average. Yep. >> Average. So y >> it's saying that the 190 is 190 people said that that particular skill recognized values and firms staff members that's what they put as critically they put that as critically important. >> Okay. So you and you can put as many as you want

025as critically important. >> Um yes cuz this is this was >> Yeah. This was a um you took each of those attributes or experiences skills and you rated them on the scale it's one to five even though up there it's number opposite. I was going to say was it reversed with >> should >> what what happened is they we actually they change and you're the first district they've used this on they changed from uh we used to do survey monkey to jot form >> and so I think that's why like when we got the uh the numbers I'm looking at the percentage like they're not >> that doesn't seem correct to me turns out it wasn't but um >> and so I that was the other thing I I got to let them know it's

026like just so you know, it seems kind of weird. Everybody gets it, but the numbers on the on this page are the opposite of it should be 5 4 3 2 1, right? >> Would make more sense to me. But >> when some people do surveys, they intentionally do mix the order to make sure people are just not putting numbers in. >> Yeah, that that is true. >> There is an intelligence into that. >> Yeah. >> I don't know. Maybe it's the math teacher in me that I just I have a hard time. >> It probably is, Mark. That's okay. >> Personal characteristics. Um, honest and ethical. Um, that is, uh, I don't know what school district would not want that. So, um, that doesn't surprise us at all. Um, usually, you know, a strong

027communicator, strong listener, um, are right up there. And again, when you look at this and you think about it, all of these on this page are above four. So on a fivepoint scale, that means it's >> they all high values. >> Yeah, high values on all those things. So >> not really uh um not any surprise there. Um I had one one district one time that um it's the only time I've ever seen it. It it was there's one that you can choose of um genuinely likes kids or loves kids or something like that. I can't remember exactly what the wording is. And it was like in the top five. >> Um which was interesting. It was uh >> we know we've had those teachers that genuinely don't like us. >> And again, here's the

028Yeah. Um there's all the all the choices you could make. And then the last question um was really it's just asking the questions are find a candidate with the same basic educational and management philosophy but make changes where necessary. Um find a candidate who will um stay the course and not change anything. and then find a candidate who was will go in a very take the uh district in a very different direction and most of the time you will find um same basic philosophy make necessary changes um is the is the top but I I think this reaffirms in your in your thought of looking at when we talked about I felt like meeting when I met first met with you you all felt the district is going in in a very good direction. We're

029in a we're in a great spot. Um your current superintendent has led that, helped lead that um and develop people and and moving the district the way you want it to. And I think this reaffirms. So like I said when when you look at this again looking internally um is is wise in my opinion because the community feel the people that did the survey feel like the the district is going in the right direction and um I would assume that anybody that you have in the system um is following that direction and and doing that. So, I think it's a a wise choice. Once in a while, um, you know, I think I had a uh the last internal one that I had, it had was a it was a 50/50 split between same educational

030philosophy and um make necessary changes and take the district in a very different direction. So, they really had something to think about there because it's like if we're going to someone that's their whole career has been in this district. Um, do we want to choose somebody that if we know that half of our population would like that took the survey anyway would like to see us do something different? Um, so I feel like that your data isn't really showing that. Well, I I I'm just going to push back a little bit on that, Mark, because um I've had a lot of discussions with a lot of people who work for our district um because they came to me and requested that. And um even though I think they really like our district and they think

031it's a good district by and large, I think that what they're also saying with that second part of that statement is with exclamation points that there does need to be some changes. Sure, keep the basic >> good package going, but there definitely needs to be some changes. And I think that's something that we need to reflect in some of the questions that we develop here as we go forward because um I don't want us to be lulled into you know the the idea that this means that everything's copacetic >> right >> because I want to clearly state here tonight that I've had numerous and I mean numerous people express to me that yep core values good for Granville schools but there needs to be some changes made. um and by the people who are our

032boots on the ground, >> you know, and um I I would really hope that we will listen to some of that. I still, you know, if I I don't know the procedure, but I would even still encourage us to have listening sessions at least at the very least with our staff because I still have two groups of people who still want to meet with me from different schools. I've met with now three different groups for a total of now 52 people. Doesn't sound like a huge amount in our district our size, but there's a lot of people that couldn't make it. It was a last minute thing. People who could make it showed up and they invited me to come. I tried to use your four points that you shared with us. You know, there

033were times that was kind of hard to control that. But, you know, I just I just listened and I just received what they're saying. But there's definitely some things that as we move forward in the search that we have got to take into consideration that does not fit under that kind of like rainbow of everything's beautiful here in Granville public schools because I think we'd be doing a disservice to some of the concerns and the points that were brought up numerous times. >> And I I concur. Um I also have spoken with many people and I actually spoke with you, you know, in full transparency. I called you to say um is this not usually the typical path is to have these listening sessions? You said absolutely is typical and um I think we could

034make a motion to vote to um ask you to go back into that particular uh part of what we've hired you for, which is having some listening sessions. I know that might push us back a little bit on timing, but I've had the same concerns. I've spoken maybe not with over 50, but I have spoken with significant numbers, maybe close to 20. >> Um, and so those together that's 70. Um, math. Yeah. Um, so, um, I I think part of my concern, um, is when I was looking over all this data and all these graphs, our highest things, yes, are honesty and, uh, having an ethical person, but listening, listening is it's this next one every time, >> right? We have strong listener and collaborative. We have um you know our little graph here strong

035listener collaborative we have right here on the experiences and skill area breakdown we have recognizes values and affirms staff members to me that was the highest one and if and if you ask the candidates that were coming in and it says we value that you are listening to us. Would you not want to be able to say, "I listened to everybody when I came in. I listened to people. I heard what they needed. I heard what they wanted." I think I think it is important that we do talk about this listening session. And Jason knows I've been pushing for it. I think that one of the things that we run a risk of, and this is one of the things that even people who say, "Yeah, I mean, we're so happy with um we're happy

036with the way Roger has created this kind of place where we can come to him. But there are also people who are feeling unheard in very large swats of areas, especially I would say possibly curriculum development, possibly professional development. Um um it was a pleasure to hear you come and give us I think we need more of this. We need more listening because these are things that weren't even brought up, right? We talked about we each have our own little pockets of people. You've never been in my pocket except I mean I think you're awesome at the school. But um I I just think we are missing out on the integrity of this search when we're not listening to the 90% of the people who do the work. They they do 90% of the work

037in this district. >> Yeah. I regret us not pushing forward. I regret that, too. >> That we did not say we definitely need to move move forward with you, Mark, >> doing what we hired you to do to to form and and lead these listening sessions. >> I tried to do my best, but I'm not you and the reach everyone, >> right? And we can't. And I think that >> by having this available, then people you you I think you will be surprised how many people show up to these things. and and are willing to express what they feel needs to be part of the vision of how we hire this next person to be our superintendent. I think we you would be shocked at how many people will respond to that. >> Let me

038ask you a question. >> You want to state your >> I was just going to say I I would do whatever the board desires to be done. Um it would if if it's decide to do that we would have to push the timeline back. >> Mhm. >> Or upper back whichever. >> How long was the survey? How long was the survey available? >> It was one week or two weeks. >> Um it was almost two weeks. >> Okay. >> The most the majority of your answers there were 275 in the first five days or something like that. >> And you had 200 staff. 200 staff. That's more than 70. Um, we all have our different clicks that communicate with us. We've come up with a process. Um, you know, I agree to the survey, but

039I don't agree with trying to get the entire community's input on this. We were elected to do this job and I think the process that we've come up with is perfectly acceptable for me to based on the candidates we're going to get and how we're going to vet them. When it comes to trying to understand other aspects, if it's from the 70 people the two of you have talked to, then formulate questions that tie to that because what's wrong with the question? Are you going to are you going to um disavow and drop a candidate based on their packet without talking to them? >> Based on what packet? >> Their application packet that we're going to get from MASB. So from my perspective, the process is still working. It it's it's working. We're not micromanaging

040it, but you still have the question aspect of it that you're you're not giving enough credibility to. >> There's no open-endedness in the questions. >> There can be >> but there was the there listening session would be listening session. Let's take a step back. That's not what I'm saying. >> Let's take a step back. I mean, I I do so >> understand and and and I agree what Bob's saying. I mean, I think there's legitimate questions um around curriculum that we need to formulate questions on. I think there's critical, you know, questions around data that we want to formulate questions on. I think there's, you know, legitimate questions around uh um personal development, professional development that we want to develop questions around. And that's the purpose of developing those questions. I do wonder based on

041the questions that Mark asks in those listening sessions, I'm not sure curriculum would come up based on the questions, the four questions that you pose, right? You know what's going well, right? What's the biggest challenge in the next 3 to 5 years? >> Boom. Right there. That's where you are going to get cuz I use tonight. We got questions and um suggestions and places that not one other person that I talked to this week mentioned once. >> Okay. >> So, my thing is my thing is with Mark, >> part of it too is >> I am not approachable to everybody. I actually got a phone call today from somebody who absolutely does not find me as charming as I think I might be. And the thing is is that when this person approached me and

042asked me questions, we completely agreed on the fact that they wanted to have listening sessions. And this is somebody who I do not agree with on everything. All right, we have some but we really do basically agree on what is best for our students. And what is best for our students is listening to the people who do 90% of the work in this district. And I've talked to you about this. >> This is not a business model. >> We're not talking about hiring the next vice president. We are talking about hiring a person who is solely responsible to our teachers and our staff and our community and has to have a very great knowledge of what they're stepping into. And I'm not saying this as any doubt about who is giving us our packet. We

043we know some of the people who are coming in. You are right, Bob. We have great people in this district. We do. But I'm also saying that it is also fair to the packet holders. So I want them to come in and really be able to go, yeah, honestly, I think I can do this part of the job. And especially if this is an internal search, if these are things that people have consistently not felt like they could bring to the board or to the administration, that's why we have a nonbiased interpreter who can ask questions. And I don't understand really I think I think part of this push back that I'm getting makes me want to ask the question, what don't we want to hear? >> What don't we want to listen to? Because

044I really think Mark's going to get it. He's going to have a lot of We have a lot of brilliant >> Yeah. >> wonderful teachers in this district that I I just admire so much and I know that they're not coming forward. I'm not going to people. There are some people coming to I could go to people and ask them what they want, but I just I I'm just really struggling with first of all why we think that has to happen so quickly and why we are not asking the majority shareholders in this district. It just seems like a bad bad choice to make. >> So I I'm I'm going to finish my points if that's okay, right? You know, so >> um and I'm going to So yeah, so the questions you ask, right,

045are what's going well, right? Uh what's the next the next 3 to 5 years? It's help me out with the last two. I forgot. >> Um what uh what experiences kind of where is your super where's your superintendent now? >> Similar to the question we have in here, right? >> And what skills or what skills will the the basically what skills will the next superintendent need to have in order to be successful? >> Yep. Gotcha. which you know I think are fairly well captured in the survey and again it was available and I do want to push back on the idea of shareholders right because I view our shareholders as the citizens of the district right the people in the district >> not the teachers >> they're not shareholders necessarily right um if they're if

046they are uh if they vote absolutely right wrong or indifferently and again I know I'm going to get push back on this because I've got a little bit different of view because I look at it as a um as a board of directors, right? That's what I kind of view like the the board of education as more like a board of directors, right? And if the board of directors, if I had the board of directors come down and interview my people and say, hey, what do you want a new boss, right? I'd be going, gosh, I guess I'm not needed anymore, right? And so that's, you know, one of my a little bit of my concern, right? is I want our administration to be able to manage people and we hold that administration accountable, right?

047Um so again, I mean I think shareholders is a not necessarily is a tricky word. Um because stakeholders because I think our teachers definitely >> fair I could say stakeholders is better. I think stakeholders is better. Okay. Right. Um I can I can agree with that one. Um >> because not all teachers are are are constituents. Right. >> Right. And you know, so it's it's a tricky model. It is a tricky model because we employ the teachers. We uh um we set up their uh uh or we approve their contracts and so forth. So it's a tricky model. It just is. Um and again, like I said, and I know I've shared this with both of you, I've never had a board of directors go to the staff and say, "Hey, what do we need

048our next CEO? >> What do we need our next CEO?" >> We're elected officials. What do elected officials do? They hold I can't tell you how many town meetings I've done in but we're not politicians in that but also different they've taken polls on various things and these are things that affect thought processes and decision making by the people that we elect. They do they take in our opinions and they make decisions or changes sometimes based on some of those things. And I I I think that in the questions that Mark would pose, he would hear just like I did when I used those same questions. You our teachers are very bright people. They know how to respond to the question and express a lot. >> Yeah. >> In their answers. And there was not

049a way to do that in the survey is what I'm trying to say because there's not that latitude to answer in a more fully thought out comprehensive way from their perspective that a listening session would do that. >> Um so from the like the feedback that I've received from teachers is curriculum is like the number one thing that they are concerned with. Mhm. >> K4 is staff or uh class sizes potentially going forward with behavioral issues having to deal with this class size and the behavioral issues. >> Mhm. >> And um budget >> not I haven't I mean from that's one for me but from me >> from them it's indirect mean from them it's indirectly classizes basically budget. >> It's budget right? How many? So that so do we think if we had a

050listening session we would get anything more than that like curriculum? >> Just tonight we got stuff that none of us have >> that's and and that's fine >> but sorry. >> Oh go ahead. >> Go ahead. >> Just to compare. So I I understand what you're saying, but let me give you sort of what happens with public boards. For example, at a university, when the universities, which is governed by a board, we're you know appointed or elected depending on your university. The board does not independently just choose someone. They have I mean they take it a step further. They create a committee with you know for the search process with teachers with or professors with students everything they have listening sessions so I understand what you're talking about from corporate but what I I think

051is in the realm of sort of public service and in sort of that area the idea that we simp you know just make the decision I mean we can take that attitude and my my opinion sort of the way I look at it is one I've heard from some people. However, I don't have a click in this district. Um I do not have this very large social circle of people that come and tell me things. And so what does that mean is if we are only relying on people who come tell us or people we know that is not giving us a good perspective of this district. So, but the the the other thing question that I have is I can I can understand you know the skepticism and you're saying what would information would

052that give us right what is the harm in doing that versus so we get the information we have the listening sessions that helps us what is the sort of bad outcome from making that decision versus saying we are not going to have these listening sessions and then the chance that we are going to have parents in the community. Very few people have mentioned parents. >> I had I had a parent ask >> you know parents, teachers or other groups feeling like they have a board who just really didn't care that much about the list. I I mean those are maybe it won't happen but it's a definite possibility. And so the question is what would be the harm in having these? We hired MASB to do this. this is what's done. I guess I don't

053understand, you know, there might be variations in what the value people think that these sessions hold, but I don't really think there's necessarily harm in holding these sessions. >> And if I can quote Mark who just said, "People like to know they've been heard. People like being recognized and affirmed as a staff." And one of the things that we have said is maybe from a business model. Yeah. That maybe you're skeptic. We have a split right now between three educators and business. And I just want you to remember what we're here for is for educators. We are here to fill an educational position. >> Yeah. So I think again I'm going to be go ahead please. Mhm. >> Thank you. Um, you said a word >> that I I have Don't take this wrong. >>

054Okay. >> But you said the word harm. >> Mhm. >> I don't I don't think we're approaching it from that perspective. Well, how we're approaching this is how much data input do we need in order to develop a series of questions that we're going to ask our candidates to be able to then deliberate and come up with who our top candidate is. So, if there is a need, again, I'm just going to say it again, there's a need to come up with additional questions, >> Mhm. You formulate the questions from the sessions you had in your independent. I have questions that I don't think anybody else is going to ask because that's from the people I'm talking to and I apologize if you don't have a big click. But I think the survey is enough.

055I think how this board has deliberated in the past and once you see the packets, I think all the pieces will come into play for you. And if you want the extra insurance, the insurance is develop a series of questions that you can then ask to address your concerns >> until we realize we don't have all the questions. >> It's not a 12-hour interview. Yeah, >> I understand that, Bob. I do. But what I am saying is, and I think what Amy was saying was, we have a choice here and we have a choice here. Ask some questions. They're only an hour session, >> right? They're only an hour session. And he'll get people who have things that have to be said or want to be said. Um, there were people that said we would

056like to come tonight. They couldn't. They didn't really realize they could. There are a lot of people that didn't. We have people who were in the GA who didn't realize they could come to the interview until we talked to them. Right. So I think that one of the things that we need to ask ourselves is do we want to um heir on the side of listening to our staff, administration, teachers or telling them we don't want to listen to them. >> Those are our choices here in this particular discussion. >> I don't think I have heard that we don't want to talk to staff. We don't want to hear from them. I have not heard that. >> Okay. Your click didn't say that then. >> I think again. >> Can I step out for a

057second? This is Joe. >> Okay. >> Hey, are you out? Um, I I I do want to correct something or make sure I say this is that we are here most importantly for our students. >> Agreed. >> That's not what you just said. You said we are here for the teachers >> who have the major that's not what you said. You said we are here for the teachers. We are here for our students and providing the best we can >> with financials the finances and the budget improving the budget >> improving you know curriculum and giving them the best leaders right um I know I've shared this with uh everybody uh or a lot of people before the challenges of today are not the challenges of tomorrow. So, if curriculum is the hot button, the

058hot issue, which it very well might be, and I'm not saying it's not, and I'm not saying we don't ask questions about it, but that's not our challenge potentially a week from now. It's not our challenge 6 months from now. It's not our challenge 5 years from now. >> So, when we hire, >> I want to be very careful. We're not just hiring for a particular skill set. Again, I think we need to develop questions around all these things and we need to challenge our candidates >> on those and then we hire for that person that can take us and lead us for the next 5, 10, 15 years as opposed to getting really tied up in what the issue of the moment is. >> But the issue of the moment, Jason, has been the

059issue since I was a teacher in Granville schools. I started in 1994. There is the same issues there that are present today. And it broke my heart. Yeah. >> To hear that these are still the same issues that we are facing yet today after having received assurances that things have been corrected to find out that they have not changed hardly a bit if not gotten worse. So please don't equate some of these concerns that you're as to that they're they're a flash in the pan in terms of concerns. No, this is a theme that has gone on and carried on for literally decades now. And I think we have an opportunity here to not only hear that and then yes formed the questions but you talked about harm Bob. Yes, there is harm. There is

060harm if we don't say to the people that we hire as teachers that their experience, their time in the classroom directly with the students that we are supposed to be taking care of is not valuable. I think that is a horrible mistake on our part and I think that if we have a chance to rectify that now we ought to >> because we even though we are here for the students I would dare say that I know you Jason you you do want our our staff to feel heard. You do want our staff to feel supported. We are constantly doing that when schools and staff come here. We want to support them. But that also means we need to trust what they're experiencing or not experiencing and they should be in the classroom. We're talking

061about people that have their masters plus 30 or more. Most of them, most of our staff are at least masters and they are good teachers and we should be listening to what they are saying and this should be helping to us to form our vision for how we're going to move forward in this process. That's what I'm saying. We can't necessarily tackle all of these things. No, of course not. That's why we're hiring a person who's going to be very aware and that is going to prove to us as best as he or she can that they have the ability to think through these very complex issues that we have been facing for a long time. Not flashes in the pan. It's not like that. And that's where I completely disagree with that that thought

062process of yours, Jayce. It's just not like that. These are things that keep on coming up again and again and they are not being addressed and it's to a disservice to our students because this we need to see real viable progress of educational progress in our students. And if we cannot depend on our new su super superintendent to understand what that looks like and know how to supervise that, then we are in serious trouble because we are not going to continue to be a destination district if we do not get this right. And part of this is listening to our staff and understanding the gravity and the enormity of what is happening. And we, the survey, sorry, is not showing us that because there's no latitude for further expression of what's going on. And we

063need to have that latitude. We need to all hear that. We need to get our heads wrapped around it. I'm I'm just really I I I'm upset for a couple reasons. Number one, like I said, that we have not progressed further than when I was teaching. I've been out of the classroom for almost 10 years, 12 years now, I mean, and it has not changed. I'm upset because I'm spending a ton of my own personal time doing something that Sorry, Mark was hired to do. I should not have had to do that. And you wanted to make sure that it was controlled and not dangerous. He could have done that. I didn't have to except for the fact that I will not allow former colleagues, not necessarily in my click because most of these people

064I've never worked with ever before in my life. There was one person that happened to be a friend of a friend. That's as far as my click got involved with this and we are doing them a disservice. we are not trusting the people that we trust our students with to give us the feedback that they should be giving us. I think that's a terrible mistake. Absolutely terrible. I have one more comment too. Um if you want to use my words about um looking out for possibly what our teachers have to say. Um it was an interesting little thing. I don't know if you meant to say this, but when you were talking about it, you were talking about if this was in a business, why would I go out and ask people and then ask

065myself, am I even needed here? And I come to this board in a very different manner than maybe other people on this board. I do not see myself as the grand pooha of this district. I do not see myself as the most important. I see myself as elected to represent people >> and in that way I am here as a voice for lots of people and I can't get my voice out for lots of people when we're not using someone we have hired to do that job. So what frightens me about the differentiation between what we're seeing with the educators versus the business aspect and this model and all of these things and trying to to say this is that this is an entire district decision. It really should be. >> And so it is

066our job to make the final choice. 100% agree with that. I completely agree that we are going to get on here and we're going to listen and we're going to vote on who we think the best candidate is. But the question is, how do you gather that information? It's like saying, I am going to make a vaccine, but I'm not going to do any testing. I'm just going to I'm just going to make a vaccine. Probably a very bad example right now, but I it it's just it blows my mind that we are not considering the listening sessions. And any every single person, even the ones that are like, "Oh, I'm I'm happy. I'm happy." And I go, "What about Oh, listening sessions a no-brainer across the board." That's a no-brainer. So, I'll stop. Um,

067I don't know if we need to make a motion to vote on it. >> I'd like to say one more thing before somebody suggests something. Um, sorry I had to step out. Um, I'm just going to say this real quick. No, I'm not going to do it. When we're done here, if you're if you want to hear it, I'll give you an update on Joe. Um, >> yeah. >> I'm sorry I stepped out for a couple minutes when you stated since you started teaching that issue seems to be a systemic issue. How can we solve a systemic issue with a few listening sessions? You almost seem to think >> I'm not suggesting that >> it's a top. >> You basically said this is catastrophic. >> Someone that we hope to address these situations. We've got

068to understand the magnitude and the depth of this problem that has not changed for decades. That's how it's related. It is a direct dot to dot connection there. >> And if it hasn't changed for decades, then it's a systematic problem. How does the systematic problem change then Bob? How does that change? Where does it start? >> Starts at the top. >> There you go. >> Get the leadership >> to understand. It's it's probably but >> has that ever been brought up >> to this board or to the superintendent that have been here? >> I personally have. Yes, I have tried very hard to do that. To me, it's a systematic problem. And you're asking us to solve the world's problems with hiring a superintendent? >> No, that is not true. And that's hyperbolic and it's

069not necessary. I want >> Well, you could say it's hyperbolic all you want. >> Okay. It is. It's hyperbolic. >> I I als I also I want to take a step back cuz I mean here there's systematic problems and and there listen, nobody's perfect. There's no district there is. >> No. Right. >> Of course not. >> But I you know, I do have to question and and we're getting way off subject here. You know, listen, we we got the US, I think it's US News and World Report, right? You know, best districts, right? We get the niche best districts. When they grab those test scores, it's not because they go, "Hey, tell me your test scores." They go to the state and they grab those test scores. So, it's not like there's anybody's covering anything

070up, right? And and the if if everything was so bad for the last two decades, right? You would see that in some of these results. And this isn't like someone feeding us these results. These are the ones that the state is are filed with the state, right? It's not anything about the presentation that we get once a quarter and maybe you know the liars can figure and figures, right? It's not like that. No, they're going to the state and getting those test results. So, I get we have issues. I'm not saying we're perfect. I'm not saying our reading scores are great. I'm not saying our math scores are great, right? But I I think from a independent outside view, there are groups that are saying, "Hey, those things are working right now and you're getting

071the results. Maybe not the way you like it. You know, maybe there's, like I said, there's things under the surface. I'm not saying there's not. Not saying there's not, but I don't think it's, you know, I I think we just got to be careful about what we say and how bad things are, right? I think that's that to me is we got I just want to pump the brakes on that a little bit. I think the other purp or the other point going back to it. Yes. When we are elected, this is and I said it before, this is one of the three things we're asked to do. And if we immediately say, okay, yep, we don't when we're elected to do this job, we're elected to hold the superintendent account accountable, right? And hire

072and fire a superintendent, pass the budget or approve the budgets, right? And then uh you know, the policies for the school, right? Those for the district. Those are the things we're responsible for. And if we don't feel we can we're empowered to make those decisions, that's I guess what I I'm just concerned about, right? Are we going to go to every time we have a um a budget, are we going to say, "Well, let's have a listening session, make sure that everyone understands the budget and the the criteria that goes along with the budget >> then. Okay, but Jason, why would other school districts commonly do this then? >> Has every school district you have had a listening session >> when they go into >> in the ones that I have done?" Yeah. Um, yes.

073I've been I've only been doing it for two years, but >> you only been doing it two years. Okay. All right. I thought you said what you had the last internal one. >> The last internal one we did have. >> Yep. >> Yes, we did. >> Yep. Okay. Fair. And in our last How many uh hirings of superintendents, have we done listening sessions? >> None. >> So, again, if we're if we're if we're if we if we think the listening sessions will help, right? And I'm hearing that loud and clear, right? I mean, so be it, right? But we push our we push our timeline back. >> We >> But I want to make sure we put guard rails on it, right? Because I understand. Listen, you had three sessions, right? Three. There's three or

074four. Four >> like Well, probably four by now since I Yeah. >> Okay. So, four. And you've spoken to >> about 52 people. >> 52 people, right? >> We're going to have one, right, for teachers, one for community. That was what was proposed if I'm not mistaken, >> right? something >> usually I usually up to split them up because it can >> one up or one lower right or something I think I look at the schedule and >> right >> and how it can work out and >> I usually spend about one day I'll say cuz I some people I can do like for example yep talking to administrator central office you do >> but I don't want this to drag into three weeks of let's make 50 sessions right I mean I I give

075I give Dr. W a lot of a lot of credit, right? Because she had an interest >> in this process and she reached out and said, "How can I be involved? When are the times, right? When are the times to come?" And I shared with her and it was the first time and she it was her, by the way, belated. Happy birthday. >> Thank you. >> Yes. It was her birthday the first time we met uh um as a board to talk about this. She wasn't able to make it yesterday, but she was able to make it today. Right. And I go back to these have all been available for everybody to do and they haven't. And so it's like how many chances do we give people to do that? You had to give four

076chances to get 50 people. >> I didn't have to give four ch I had four different groups people approach me. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. So there was their initiative. Was that me going out searching that you're saying? >> Yeah. So >> I concur with Jason that um we have three responsibilities, core responsibilities as board members. This is our responsibility. >> Do not want to usurp my responsibility. Um we came up with a process. It was agreed upon >> quickly >> and now we're twothirds of the way in and and others want to change it and we're twothirds of the way in. >> I need to I need to back I need to push back on that a little bit Bob because the thing is is that we were presented with an entire packet in one

077night and in one night we were told no we don't need to have any kind of survey even and I was like well this is fast and we were like No, we need a survey. And then we had asked, could we like put an open-ended question at the end that says, "Would you like a listening?" Nope, can't do that. And the next day, we had the surveys out. So, I I agree that that first meeting that we had was a fast, furious meeting that seemed like there were some decisions that I wasn't ready to make, but there seemed like there were some decisions already made for us. And so I I'm going to push back on the fact that we are switching things up because the original plan was to have listening sessions and this

078board switched it up on that night. So I I appreciate that you are willing to do these listening sessions. I I like that this is because you said how many how many opportunities are we going to give? We're going to give the uh opportunities that were originally given. We're not going to take any away. We're just going to give them the ones that were there. We're gonna go with what Mark has done in the past and we're gonna see then we can all walk away from this and go yes your voices are important. Yes, we have given you those opportunities. Yes, you are valuable to us because you are the 90% to our kids. I again I take issue with that characterization that if we don't do this I am saying our teachers are not

079valuable because I hope you understand that's not true. >> I understand it greatly. >> You understand that our teachers are completely valuable but you say you're saying that is very position. >> I have had I have had other conversations with Jason and I have asked him this question outright. So, I'm going to just let you stay over here. >> Let's keep let's just let's just I just want to make sure that I I disagree with the positioning of that statement that >> Okay, good. >> That by not >> agreeing with exactly what you're saying by the way you stated it. If I don't agree with 100% of what you're saying, I'm saying that the teachers are not valuable. That's not true at all. And I owe my actions over the last 10 years or or

080you know, eight years on this board and as a a member of the uh the coaching staff at Granville and as a student here that the the the administration, the staff and the teachers recognize that, right? And my conversations with them and so forth. >> Um so I want to make sure that's that's straight for >> that. You have an excellent amazing history with this district. I agree. And I do think and again I just I I think you know those are I just want to make sure that that is is clear right and if we want and if we need to do these I want to make sure we're doing this in a controlled uh um >> quick fashion so be it. But I also want to push back on, you know, what was

081proposed at the first meeting, right? And I will I'll take I'll take full responsibility for this. Part of my responsibility as president, right, is to come forward with a suggestion of what we wanted, what we're going to do. And that was what it proposed. And it didn't include the listening sessions. And it didn't include necessarily even the uh um the uh uh survey. That was my proposal. And that's on me. And if that makes you know if if you guys want to throw arrows that was go to me because that was my proposal and say this is what we're want to do going forward right it's one of my responsibilities as president is to not just say okay everybody what do we want to do my it's my responsibility to say here's a proposal this

082is what I'd like to do and then we move forward now I apologize if you felt that that was too quick and we didn't get enough discussion around it I felt we had discussion and if that's not the way you felt I apologize about that. Right? But that's the way I felt is that we Yes. Again, it's kind of like State of the Union, right? What's the State of the Union supposed to be? Hey, here's my proposals for the next year, right? This is what I want to see get accomplished the next year. That's kind of the way, you know, you I took that when we we met with Mark and sat down and said, "Here's the things that I think are important to us. Here's the things I want us to be make sure

083we're doing, and there we go." And I put that proposal together. We came here together. We talked about it. We adjusted because we said, "Yep, let's do the survey. And then we went from there. And then now afterwards, right, there's been a lot more discussion. I get that. And if viewpoints have changed, okay, right? But I don't I want to make sure that we're clear that, hey, we're changing this, right? We had we had talked about it. We had we had put it in place and we were moving forward, but it wasn't this grand design to try to box anybody out. It was what we have. Now, the question becomes, do we have to start this whole process over again with the survey and everything? And I'm going to ask this question because now we've

084got a a group of 190 educators in here, right? We're going to have 50 and 20, another 70 educators that we talked to, right? And now whoever comes to the open session, right? So, at some point, we're going to have a lot of crossover, the same people saying the same thing. And does that now outweigh I mean now that become you know 400 educators but it's all the same 190 people then we go hey look at 400 educators say this and only you know 150 of our our community members said this so we got to go with this because it's higher so I just wanted to say what do we what what happens here when we're doing this now >> right so I just want to so I I throw it to our math expert

085Yeah, >> I want to ask I want to ask another question. >> So, Mark, the draft interview questions that we have here, are these unique to Granville? >> No. >> Thank you. >> So, how are we going to assimilate that data to be able to come up with questions? So I understand systemic issues, not listening to everybody, you know, having to listen to everybody and do subcommittees, but what am I going to get out of these listening sessions? What value am I gonna get to be able to come up with um reputable, credible questions from my perspective to be able to talk to a candidate which is probably going to go no more than an hour and a half for an interview. >> How many questions can they answer in that? And how many different

086questions are we now going to come up with? I think you answered your question though in your in your question. You >> I did not because what I'm saying is >> I Mark's not going to create new questions for us from these listening sessions. These are the questions he gave us. Now it's up to us to come up with additional questions. >> Mhm. From his listening sessions. >> How are you going to summarize it? How would you summarize it? I am not in favor of this. I think >> as you can tell, how would you summarize these sessions? >> Typically, what I do is I I write down as many things when I ask those four questions. I write down the responses and then I try to sum up themes that I see that come

087through and I provide those to the board. And Jason, that's exactly what I tried when I called you to let you know for full transparency, what were the overarching themes of the discussions that I had with the people that I've met with. >> Yeah, >> I think it would be the same. And to be honest, to address some of your concerns, it did change how we would ask some of these questions. It does alter a little bit of the direction of some of the questions that I would ask. Not that I wouldn't use a lot of the wording, but it might be a little bit of a different emphasis on it on some of the the subjects at hand. So, I I think there's value in it. >> Absolutely. >> Um, I'd like also like

088to say, Jason, I truly appreciate the fact that I know you and I know that you do appreciate the staff of our school. I hope that I didn't say anything that implied it because I know that that's not true. I know you do value our staff at the b the totality of your heart. So let's just clarify that. >> And one of one of the things too and I know I've I've shared this with many of you. One of the things and I said this at the last organizational meeting we did right is one of my concerns is that we're starting to get into staff relations issues. And I've always said that one of the things I would expect the superintendent to do in the first 90 days is to do their own town hall

089listening sessions to understand what they have where their focus needs to be for their first year, their first two years or first three years. And that's that opportunity for them to get that feedback and come back to us and say, "Yeah, this is what I'm going to be working on. This is the I I had this idea, but this is really what I need to be." Um because that's the where that relationship needs to be and where that needs to come from. Um I just yeah I still go back to it. I I think we're we're elected to make decisions and you know and make those decisions and and lead the you know and be able to bring that uh leader to help us move forward. And again, I personally look for someone who is

090has can do more than one thing and can lead us in multiple directions. And I think, you know, a lot of the things they continue to hear about, right, is curriculum and so forth like that. And I think that's important. I I'm not saying it's not important at all, right? But that's one of three areas they're going to have to manage and they're going to have to make sure that their staff is held accountable for that. And when we in turn, need to be making sure we're holding them accountable. I do you I am concerned that if this is a two decade long issue or a decadesl long issue, we have not once not once brought this up for our superintendent um >> evaluation. >> Not once. >> Well, I do think it's important to

091note though that I think staff and teachers are explicitly told that if they have a concern about something to go to their, you know, like what we would expect chain of command. And so I think sort of like I understand absolutely what you're saying like we don't want to get into personnel management. That's absolutely not what you want. However, when I'm thinking about like yes, you know, we were elected to make this important decision, which I think is is really important >> and just talking from my perspective in how do I personally make decisions about things. Number one, this is a very big position. It is a lot of money. We are a, you know, um, you know, it's a it's a big position. Um, and because I'm looking at it that way, I want

092to have as much information as I can to make sure I'm asking the right questions. And again, right, like you want superintendents, I agree, to have a wide range of skills because you absolutely do. >> Can I ask you a question? Information about what >> I have as much information as possible. Information about what are we looking for? >> I would say what are the things that we need to see in our the skills and experiences that we need to have see in our district in our superintendent like for example. >> So you don't feel you need to know the skills >> that the superintendent needs to have is what you're saying. >> Experience and skills for example. So here's >> just for clarity. You don't think you know the skills and experiences that the

093super >> I think I need to gather that information from multiple people. Um that's just how you make decisions when you are your decision impacts a wide range of people right it's not you know it impacts teachers it impacts families all of these things. So, you need to hear what it is that they want, what what should they look for that that is just and I'll say this is sort of how it's done in the public realm whether it's a university, a public school district, you know, there actually I had a conversation I did have a conversation with Joe, right? I said, "Jill, >> when you guys hire a a new chief, right, do you get listing sessions?" He goes, "If we if we hire internally, no." So if we go externally, absolutely. >> Okay.

094>> But will you do internally? No. >> Yeah. I mean, >> so so not all public I just want to make sure. Not all >> and you already have since we're internal only, we already have a closed pool that >> is hopefully very familiar with this district, both the good and the bad, right? And >> whatever other significant issues staff may have. Well, and one of the questions is though like for example with the survey data, the one thing that threw me for a loop with the data was in the top three characteristics, right, of like experiences that we want in the top three was superintendent of another district. And I was like, huh? Because that we will not be able to make that like, you know, as an experience with an internal candidate. That

095surprised me actually for the data only because I was like, "Oh, well that's strange." Like I again I just think gathering more information is helpful. Um it seems like that would be the better way to go. I I I guess I like I said I don't other than time um it again just seems like that is a a compromise that I think we've been asking for since the first meeting just to have the listening sessions. Um a compromise in the process, you know, it doesn't have to be perfect, right? This this seems like a compromise that right >> we could could make and that seems fair >> given that we >> I think we compromised with the survey because that wasn't part of it to begin with and then we and then we put it

096on and if we wanted but so so so I guess what I'm hearing right is >> no I'm not sure about >> just when you say >> to begin with right >> for and I just want to clarify because when we came to that meeting >> y >> what was presented to us was a listening was listening sessions and a survey. This is what I do for an internal search. Right? That's what was presented with us. >> But the majority of the board decided they didn't want it. >> We never really voted vote on it. >> I think it was pretty much a straw poll. Y >> but I would like to also point one thing out, Jason. You talk about >> we're going to get this person and they're going to be a miracle

097working superintendent, right? this going to be we want this person with all these skills and this and and then in the first 90 days they're going to have these town hall meetings and figure it out. Do you not think that it would be better to say these are the things in the first 90 days that people are going to be looking for from you? Do you think that we can make better decisions if we can go look you're going to hear all this stuff in your first 90 days? How are you going to react? because it could be that that person goes, "Oh, oh, I I don't I don't remember hearing about that before." And so I I I don't think that this is just about our teachers or just about what's best for our

098students, which it's always going to be best for our students. It is good for the candidates who are coming in to know what people are saying. It is good for them. It is good for us to be very as honest with them as we are with our staff and our teachers and our students and our parents and our community. I I don't think that it's a bad thing to have communication both ways. And I understand what you're saying. I want to have this 90 days first 90 days of a like tell me what you need. Here I am. But they also are superintendent once they are hired they hit the ground running. They have and especially in a district this size. So to give us some of this listening session, some of the ideas that

099are going in, some of these comments that we haven't heard yet, some of them that we have heard repeatedly. I think what's really important is that it's it's good for everybody. It's good for everybody from the candidate to the kid. and everybody in between. I just I don't I I really have struggled with why we are so hesitant to listen and I'm glad that we're going to do it. And I thank you for altering this path >> because I was I heard you say that several times. And so I think that when we alter this path to say we are going to listen. It's going to have guard rails. We're going to have three little two sessions or whatever Mark's going to do. Yeah, there should be guard rails. We have been in these sessions

100when things go off the rails, right? I would say our last five years there were a lot of off the rail moments. And I I don't think that that's what we're asking for. We're asking for a simple voice. You got a lot of people who are saying yes. Just a listening session makes complete sense. >> You have a lot of teachers saying it. >> I have parents. >> You don't I don't think you have that many parents. >> Fine. >> So I I don't. >> So we shouldn't have >> parents trust this board. They voted for this board. The people on this board have the authority to do it. We were given that when we were voted in. There is trust among the individual board members here for the constituents that voted for them. >>

101And you know this well too, Bob. Not everybody in our community identifies with each of the board members. >> I agree with that 100%. >> Okay. >> So >> then let's muddying the process. I I will just say if we go through with this, you are muddying the process. >> Okay. to one that you want to usurp the board's responsibility in some way for us to make the clean decision. >> So all >> because I'm also I'm not done yet. >> Okay. >> Once we get this information um how are questions going to be formed? Because it isn't Mark's responsibility to create these questions. It's ours. >> Okay, I'm okay with that. And remember, it's not a 12-h hour interview, but I'm not in favor of this. I think it's I think it's overkill, and

102I think it's needless. And I I'm just going to say this. I think certain board members do not have the internal strength to be able to make the right decision. And I'm going to say what we did just in this last couple times has muddied a process that was already established >> and has worked and has worked >> many times. So Mark, question for you to reimagine this to put those back in. What would that look like? because I'm sure you've had the last 30 minutes of here hearing us bicker going through Judas. What does my calendar look like? >> Yes. Um I had my calendar out to see and what what the timeline could be. Um typically I need to come in one to two times. Uh it's been one or two days in

103the district. I think could I do it next week? I mean, I can fit in my own calendar, but is that enough? I guess it's >> next week. You said >> I mean >> I think Sorry to interrupt. I think because of this late change, if we're forced to do it that and if there's such a desire by teachers, they'll adjust their schedules to be able to meet a tighter time frame. I think there has to be some give and take because this board has given too much with regard to that for teacher input. I value teachers, but you had the chance to give the input. We're all I have an email address. I have a phone. Sorry. So, did you say that next week would be possible for you personally? >> I could I

104can make next week work. I I just need to need who I need to know who I work who to work with at the district to find out where I'm going to go, what buildings, what the time schedules are for when buildings get out. I think you have like 18 buildings, something like that. >> Okay, quite a few. >> And so, >> Holly should be able to provide that for you. I'm hoping that I could like I don't know how close for example the secondary buildings there are and getting their time but the time they get out that sort of thing. Um typically I mean I do do it the next week like >> right >> you know if I was meeting on Monday I guess I keep reading today's only Tuesday feels a lot

105later in the week >> after tonight I'm sure. >> Yeah. So I I can do it by next. Yeah, I can do I can make it work in my schedule. Change some things and I would I would say that to do that then we already have the 11th I believe. I count the uh timeline up here. >> The 11th is tenative. Next week is the 11th, right? >> Next week, Wednesday is the 11th. >> Yeah. Okay. So, I obviously we can't meet on that day. So, I was go back and report. Um, I would extend the time to the timeline as far as when um, if we did this next week, we basically I'm hoping as we look at it, we're just extending the timeline one week. >> Mhm. >> Right. >> Mhm. >> Everything

106just adjusts one week. >> Mhm. I would extend out the time to get materials in for applicants. >> Um, >> do it next week on that. I guess we already have the 18th scheduled is that's when I could come back and report and >> the 18th was the night for the scheduled for the interviews, wasn't it? >> Right. >> So, I could report and we could do the develop the questions that night. firm up. We'd have the we'd have the submission date can probably keep the submission date the same. >> Yeah. >> And then um we'll be able to, you know, if there's more than one candidate um we can decide that night how many that you want to interview. >> Okay. >> That would be the 18th. So that's a Wednesday, correct? >> Okay.

107Yeah. So then we're just going to add a week for the interview. >> Mhm. >> We just do the interviews the week of the 23rd, right? >> Mhm. >> So 3:24. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> I don't want to go this way. I guess >> that help you out, R. >> You're welcome. You're so We're so good to you. >> Okay. Okay. >> So I wouldn't come back on 11th 18th. I come back. I'll develop a new timeline and send that to have it posted in the district. Um report back >> I believe the start times for secondary and end times in particular are all within about 15 to 20 minutes of each 250. >> Mhm. >> Well, it also becomes logistically about right. You can't expect like is there a central spot where your

108elementary teachers usually meet? It probably doesn't. It's probably going to need to be Could you Can I ask could you do high school auditorium for secondary? Because basically 5th through 12th is on a secondary schedule. So they would get out first and as long as the auditorium is available um and I can look into that for you and then we could have elementary again centrally locate to the high school auditorium because I think that's really the location that is going to be big enough >> and they just come out later. >> They would just come out after >> and then I could do I could do a community one. It's an asset. Do you want the community assessment for the community? Might as well. >> Yeah. >> If I did them all in one spot,

109>> we do it in one day. Um, >> so staff, you could do high school right after and then elementary >> and then that night. >> Yeah. I just um >> would make it, you know, I probably usually we'll do like a community one at like 6:00 or something like that so people have a chance to get out of work, that sort of thing. >> Mhm. Um, and I can work with Holly to see if there's a time where I could have all administrators during the day. Meet with them, the central spot, meet with central office people, whatever you want me. That's what I usually do, but I'll do whatever you want me to do. >> You could probably meet with administrators at this building. >> Yeah. >> Can you do a Zoom? I'm just

110thinking principles and >> Oh, Zooms are easier. >> Yeah. don't necessarily want them out of buildings, but um >> that's a good idea. >> Yeah. So then does he coordinate with you >> instead of Holly? >> Yeah, just if we we can talk after you want. That's okay. >> Sure. Sure do that. >> Um so I guess we can probably keep the deadline to >> So what what are we doing on Zoom now? >> That would be the administrator. >> Just the administrators. Got you. >> Yeah. Um >> just debating about should we extend the deadline to apply? >> I don't I don't know that the information is going to be any different. >> I don't think it's think so. >> Yeah. I mean, I don't think it would change any >> thing with the

111the only difference is and >> quite honestly, it's >> it's they have the >> we can there's not probably not going to be a whole lot that changes as far as the selection criteria, so it should be fine. We keep it we can keep the same. >> Yeah. Um, so I'll come back on the 18th. We'll select who's going to we'll go I'll give you the results. We'll just just be a compiled list >> of these are some common themes I heard on these four questions. We keep it limited those four. I'm not >> I'm not going to find all the warts in the district or all the I mean that's just and then the questions just so you know you've got some and I I want to give you an idea that the questions

112that I came up with because there's a lot of different areas that you look at with the superintendent and um so there's should be one or two and we try to keep it really around 20 questions because that's going to take you a lot of time. >> We won't get through 20. >> I would say >> there's no way. >> Usually it's about 15 to 18. >> Um >> when I do first round, >> we never go more than 15 and I keep it's 50 minutes and >> they have to keep track of their time. Um but just so you know will be questions I recommend questions on board relations that's super importar important >> budget um finance uh communication interpersonal communications community relations diversity and inclusion education and instructional question um things about their

113experiences what ex usually we usually ask a question about facilities um our human resources, labor relations, just leadership in general, um management to administration, uh things, personnel issues, student achievement, um sometimes technology, but I've kind of taken those off because it's like by the time you get every category, you pretty much it's your 15 questions. So, yep. Um, and then you throw in the the ones tied for them to have some closing remarks and you also have the openers for them to talk about themselves and why they feel they're a fit for the position, that sort of thing. So, just so just to give you an idea that that's what those questions, >> I mean, I have a whole bank and yeah, we we added them in a little bit, but at the same time,

114those are the areas we want to make sure we hit as many areas as possible. Would you change questions for an internal search versus an external? Like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, would you are there different questions you would ask in those scenarios or would it just kind of all be the same? >> For the most part, they're very similar. Okay. >> But you you tailor them a little bit different when somebody is Yeah. There's just different different ways >> and you can essentially the same type of area, same type of questions, but there may be something particular to your district that that person knows about and you want to know a little bit more about how they would >> do that. I think like the um >> you can get into more

115of you know hey what what's working you know from your viewpoint you should be able to get very good answers on what needs to be improved >> because those internal people are here >> where outside person isn't going to know >> my my last internal one board members wanted to know >> um the question was asked somewhere along the lines of basically you've been in the district, what would you do differently >> than what our current superintendent is doing? >> And and there's maybe maybe Warren Roers was they had like one um I guess theirs was a little more specific because they had they were running a huge deficit. >> Yep. >> And they were like, >> you've been through the process. What would you have done different than our current administration did? That that's

116a question that we'll we need to get into because we've gotten under our fund balance. >> Not really because of anything >> we did, just because of the funding we got the last two years. >> So, >> yeah, every district's going through that. It's >> not going to get better in the next couple years. >> So, but again, they still fit into the budget finance questions. You just kind of >> tailor them a little bit. >> Okay. >> So, go ahead. curriculum. I mean, because I heard that from teachers, too. That was like the number one thing. >> Is there can they point to I didn't I didn't ask this follow-up question, which I should have, but can they point it to a district where they say the curriculum is good and works? Cuz I

117I just think of it I mean, this is more just debate for really no purpose at this point, but from my work when I started 30 years ago, the things that people complained about are the things that people complain about now, >> right? >> It's a solution. just bring the bring a solution. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Yes. The answer is yes. there there are curriculums and there are districts that are using curriculums that >> so I mean that would that would be something that I would like to hear like if you can is ask the follow-up question on >> I may or may not come up >> because I asked you know that is almost an I'm going to I really believe it's an impossible question to ask to say how other districts are doing it

118because other districts have different student populations teacher ratios budget disregard. >> That's what that's why I'm curious if if you know we say that it's bad how you know what >> district in anything there's a thing called best practices right >> and certainly in education there's best practices and when we are not implementing >> from what I'm hearing like in the math curriculum in K4 that's not good >> I've heard the same yep I've heard the same >> and I I would just like to say the word best practice practice is a slang word for somebody else is doing it and I like it so I think I'm going to try it and they haven't necessarily done rigorous validation of it in multiple districts. I think it's a wana let's try it. I think we've

119done that too much in this district. >> Would you agree with that Amy? I mean best practices in terms of how we >> I think best practices the term I think like like you said Bob the term best practices can mean a whole lot of things. I tend to prefer to use evidence-based practices. Um I I mean I look you know and the question is the are is there data on curricula programs where we have empirical objective data that show it? >> Yes. Absolutely. >> And we don't really get that. We get the slang best practice and then the average board member will just accept it. Right. I mean and that's what we've done over the years. So it's one of the things that drives teachers crazy. because when they think they've got a good

120curriculum that works for their grade level and then oh big changes why are the changes coming some of them are well I wasn't on the committee I'm forced upon it's forced upon me I really want to stick to this and I can't right so a lot of that is whether or not they want to change or um like again I'm I'm just going to say it's a systemic issue I don't think it's an easy Thanks. >> Well, and I and just just so you know, so question number 14 that I posed here cuz I >> saw in the survey student achievement was important and I've had I've listened to you and I knew that curriculum evaluation is so 14. How do you assess the effectiveness of instructional practices and teaching resources? And what corrective measures

121do you take when such an assessment indicates that a re a recommended resource or instructional strategy is not having the desired positive out impact on student achievement. >> So we will we will try to ask questions. >> It's interesting though because like Jason pointed out is I don't know that our data shows that we're having a problem >> with achievement. Are we? I mean I think if you it depends on the data you look at and it dep you know it's comp school data obviously is is complicated and multi you know it's trying to to dick but yeah I mean those are all I think questions that are good to look at right even >> well I mean daddy can whoever makes the data can >> exactly you know there's good data there's bad data

122>> and how how right how >> how it's presented can can really absolutely can >> which is why I go back to >> Jason said it comes from the state >> it's coming from the state they're looking at the raw numbers they're not looking to see how it's presented >> and that's how US news and world reports and so forth are ranking us highly >> I agree I I wouldn't use US news and world reports as of that it's it's a marketing thing it's not a but but I do think for example we do have data right you know at that we can look at that we have that's published. It has to be. >> So, >> can uh I that's one thing I don't want to lose track of this. Yes, >> we didn't

123really nail down the actual date or interviews. >> I thought it was 24. Yeah, that's what I had written down. >> Is that Tuesday? >> Yes. So, this is a Tuesday. >> Yeah, I think uh best practices was the the coin phrase when I was teaching. That was what was used. Now it's I I agree with you the the data proven >> I could take you through the >> the trajectory of the different terms >> and and actually some of the curriculum that the the state is listing as being on what's the correct terminology Amy I don't want to use the wrong uh being approved state approved board approved >> that we're still that is not on that list that we're still using >> and that's a concern and it hasn't been updated since gosh

124Gosh, I think I was URC doesn't want to go anymore. >> And so there's there's things that have been coming to light in these conversations that >> so we're getting together on the 18th and we're getting together on the 24th. Those are the next two special board meetings. >> Yes. >> We're not getting together on the 11th. >> Correct. No, >> that's that's your week, >> Bob. You're in charge >> to work with Heather. >> Yes, that's your week to work with Heather and Holly. snacks drinks. >> Get that out. >> There will be no snacks. >> I'm bringing snacks. >> All right. >> So, let's adjust everything and then we'll we'll come back again on that 18th to wrap up the development of the selection criteria, the interview questions, and then prepare for the

125interviews. >> And we are not extending the >> applicant applicant window. Yep. Right. Okay. >> And so that that'll be up actually next week. >> Okay. Any other items to discuss? >> Report that I have uh one application right now. >> Okay. >> There's nothing we have to >> any other any other items to discuss. >> All right. Since we already did public comment, uh the next board meeting of the Granville Board of Education will be uh will not be Wednesday, March 11th. Um it will be Monday, March 16th, 2026 at 7 p.m. Granville Board of Educ Granville Administration building. We are adjourned.