Grandville Board Meeting - Superintendent Search - 2.11.2026

001All right. The pledge. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. >> Can we have a roll call? >> Yes. Wonder >> here. >> Video. Stephus >> here. >> Gardine >> here. Campbo >> here. Dehan >> here. >> And >> here. How'd we do? >> We won barely. >> All right. The win's a win. >> Yeah. >> All right. Good. Um, >> first item, approval of the Jenna. Can I get a motion? >> Some moved. Support. >> All those in favor? Yes. >> Opposed? >> Motion passes. >> On to the one item we have on here is the discussion the superintendent search planning. So, want to introduce Mr. Mark Palmer. Mark

002is uh going to be our search consultant from MASB. Um he works uh with them on doing these across the state. Obviously, Bob and I have had the opportunity to speak uh with Mark a couple of times now. Maybe uh uh one on the phone, one or two times on the phone and then through emails and so forth. So, um, getting things kind of lined up and helping him understand what we're kind of looking for. Um, so this is Mark's opportunity to come to uh, come to us, kind of present a little bit, uh, about what his thoughts are. Um, propose a timeline for our search, um, and for us to kind of start talking through this and what we like, what we don't like, and, uh, kind of go from there. So, I'll turn

003it over to Mark. >> Okay. Thank you very much. um happy to be here this evening and uh I can give you a little bit of my background so you sometimes it makes people feel a little more comfortable sometimes you may say yeah he's been in education too long I'm not really certain but um this is like my 38th year of being involved in education and I u spent most of my career as a high school principal 5 years as a superintendent and uh I decided uh two and a half years ago to retire um went from retirement to uh getting on a board of the Clinton County Resa board of education. So I served there and then uh most recently and when I retired I started working for MASB doing searches and workshops. Um

004and then uh this past uh summer uh an old superintendent friend of mine was in a need of a a fill-in career center uh principal and so I'm down in Kazoo for the last uh since June I started and I said I'll give you a year right now. I can't really understand why I said that, but um so I worked down at the career center for the year and and MASB called and said that uh asked if I would do uh work with you on your search because it was going to be an internal only. Um and I want to speak to that is saying that I think that is a wise move. Um if if if a district if you're heading in the direction that you want it to be going, if you have

005qualified people who you believe will do well at the job and want the position, um you're much better off to go internally and at the very least look at those first. Um pools that we're seeing are aren't nearly as large as as uh they used to be. I think uh Bob and I were talking back way back when he started you know you do look for a superintendent you get 40 45 applications >> and um now we hope to get for a school the size of Granville we're looking at 20 20 to 23 or so um and quite often a number of those are not really what you're looking for or qualified for the position that you that you want them for so it is wise if you have people in your district, we always

006say look at those people um and you can have it. It just makes a smoother transition and um you know what you're getting. And so that's I think that's important that you that you did that um that that's what you're considering. So I gave you a packet tonight. Uh some of you have the white pack, some have the blue. Um that's only because at my house I realized I ran out of nice white packets. picked up some blue ones. But um in that on the right hand side is a PowerPoint which I know that the district provided you with um with that as is, uh as well, but if you want to follow along on that, we're going to walk through that here in just a minute. And then I have a one timeline there

007and I have a sample posting of what we could do that I could have up as early as tomorrow. And I also um have uh we provide some salary comps that we'll talk about just so you have an idea and I understand you're probably going to work with the company to help negotiate that which I also think is wise. But we like to provide this and we'll talk about a little later just so you have an idea of of what where superintendents are in your area um as best as we can tell. Again, we'll talk about that a little later. So um let's just get right into the PowerPoint and uh so what I would like to do I' I've taken this this is our overall search process and what we do um through MASB

008and I've adopted it for an internal only because normally if we're doing internal external it's about a 12 to 13 week process. We can do this in probably five to six weeks depending on what some of the decisions you want to make this evening. Uh so as I was thinking looking at it well before spring break you could you could have the decision decision made. Um so um we're going to go through that and just to talk about my role, what I do, what you get to do. Um, as you know, this is probably the most important job of of a board is you you hire one employee, you evaluate one employee, and that is a superintendent. So, it's your responsibility and and uh we just here I'm here to help you walk through that.

009Many times I'll go places and when we do even when we do staff uh um when we do staff engagements and I do take input from them, people think that you've hired me and I'm going to select your superintendent. I do not select your superintendent. You get to do that. I'll help you through the process. Make sure that uh help the make sure that you don't violate any any laws, but that is your responsibility. So, I want to make that clear that if you think I'm going to choose it, that's not how it works. So, I know you're all seasoned to know that, but I just had to bring that out. So, um again, we talked about the timeline and things like that. Um I pretty much talked about the agenda. Some of our slides

010here I'll go through rather quickly. Um so, we could spend some time talking about the lefth hand side of your folder. I do want to let you know that uh we very much follow the open meetings act. So as we go through this um all decisions will be made in public. Um all interviews will be public. Uh all deliberations will be public. So everything should be out in the public. We will not go into close session um at any portion portion of this. There's only about one time that we would do that and that is if you were to decide to do we have some personality profiles that you can do and and um when we get the results back if you choose that's an extra cost to do that. But if you were to

011choose to do that um then we could we would take you into close session to give you those results because sometimes they can be quite personal. um that's the only time that we really um do any sort of close session. Um very few districts actually go through that process and I would think that if you're going internally you already know your people so you probably would not want to do that but we can talk about that if you want to. So um just to give you an idea we have we call we have few different phases. So, in the preparation phase, which is where we're at now, um what I do is I will provide you a timeline and a process and we'll talk about that. Um seller cap, all the things I've already talked

012to you about um the uh preliminary posting. Uh I facilitate uh staff and community engagement meetings and I create the online survey. What you would do Whoops, I think I went too far. Sorry. um just approve the pro timeline, agree on it, um agree with the process, you you set the salary range eventually. And again, in this situation, this is more for if I'm going to be posting outside, we always put on our posting, this is the range of salary you can expect. Internally, we we seldom do that because you've got the process kind of all already figured out. um that kind of also if you're doing externally it just help people decide if they're going to apply or not. So um you would obviously approve the preliminary posting help if we if we go

013through with the um input groups community and staff engagement helping decide who those people are. um you promote it and you communicate the process to the public and really a lot of that comes through the uh district when it says what the district does here. So, we just want to make certain that the district's posting meetings like they did tonight um promotes them. We recommend that you have a a tab or somewhere on your um web page that you'll put all the information for the superintendent search on there as we go through the process. So you want to be very you want to maintain the public trust by it's out in openness is what we're doing. So I I know you've already establish that here in Granville and you want to keep it that way.

014So um that's why we all of our communications we as much as we can we'll put the timeline on there. will put the posting on um any sort of communications that go out about um surveys or anything like that, we would have those put on there. Um that sort of thing. So, pretty much that's what the district does. Just promotes it and make sure that we're uh getting everything posted the way we should. After that, um we move into the recruitment phase. And again, I adopted these a little bit. Um, when we do this, um, when I do the staff input and the survey, I compile what the results are for you, bring them to you so you can have them. I from those results, I make a draft of what we call the selection

015criteria of what you may want, what the community is saying, and what you were saying you want to have for your next superintendent. um get it posted and I collect applications. So when we go through this process um all the applications will come come to me and I'll keep them confidential until I send them to you um at at the end once the posting's up. I'll send them all to you electronically and then I ask you to keep them confidential until each person has accepted a an interview with again getting ahead of myself. Sometimes I get talking if we're going to have slides on that. I I want to ask a question of clarification on that. So um in the past any applicant um when we looked at those applications they had to be looked

016at in the boardroom. So they could not be done outside. That is the rule we did as the board. So that if you want to see the applicant information it would have to be in this room because we can't afford to have it go outside. I mean is that is there an issue with that Mark? Um, no. What the way we've done it, um, since I started doing this, and it was back when I applied, that sort of thing, when I became a superintendent. Uh, now, especially electronically, once the the um the posting is up, then we give uh we send the information electronically to board members and their all their application. materials that give you a chance to look them over. Um, we do come together as a board and decide on who you're

017going to interview. Um, and we we still keep that I'll number them and then you'll talk about them by number until until they've decide who you want to interview and then once I call and confirm an interview with the candidate then we would they could be public but there's not really an issue with it. Um, there hasn't been >> Okay. So, I just want to get one more piece of clarification because you're explaining it but I think we're on the same page. I'm not sure. Okay. >> So, let's say we get three candidates. Mhm. In the past, those three applications for those candidates would be held confidential for just the board to see in person in this room. You're saying you're going to send them to us electronically. >> Yes. Yes. I typically what we

018do is like let's say it's closes on a Thursday. um I gather everything and I find that by the next day in the afternoon I would send them to electronically a couple days before we meet as a board. >> Okay. >> And that's when um so the board has a chance to look at and see if there's anybody that they you know there may be someone they don't want to interview. >> I understand. I mean you understand the perspective. I'm just telling you about our past practices. Yeah. >> So obviously we did this you did this 12 years ago now, right? So has this this is a recent this is a recent change in giving it out or you don't >> as long as I have been doing this I can only go by that

019we we send them out. >> Okay. >> Um and actually we go through we have a a database that >> you get a you get a uh a password to and go get on it. And I'm open if if the if you all would feel more comfortable >> like I'd like to be able to look at >> I understand that. I'm just telling you what the past practices been. I just >> I didn't know if it was for um pure confidentiality reasons >> or um >> you know they just for your eyes only kind of a >> Yeah. >> But I'm I'm fine with it. I'm just telling you past practice. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I don't know a part of it. It's not a violation of any uh um open meetings act or anything.

020Um it's very similar to reading the board packet before. >> Um >> yeah, >> I don't know I if that was something that the district would prefer to do. We can do we can do that. >> Our search >> agents did it. So it was both MASB and Washington. >> Oh, I wonder if it's because it was a was it like a it was a search firm that did it for you? that they were trying to hold the candidates as exclusive >> maybe and they didn't want you know other search firms to be able to have these candidates too. Maybe >> that that's something that I'm just thinking right. >> That's a that's a good point. >> That's what I did as a search agent, right? You know, when I was hiring helping companies hire

021people >> because it was much more competitive back then. >> Exactly. I bet that's probably who you selected. >> Yeah, that's >> just so for the delay. >> I was just trying to think through an HR standpoint, right? Why would you not? Because at some point it's going to be public because you're going to talk about who you're going to want to interview, >> right? But but like you said, >> do it as a group. That that was our whole thing. >> Yeah. But that's okay. I I'm just stating it. I'm just giving you past practice and I'm okay with it. >> So the public wouldn't necessarily see all the applicants. It would be just the but >> when I guess when we discuss who we want to interview, we we would would likely talk

022about all the applicants. >> It's not like disclosed to like these are all the people that applied or anything, >> right? It'll it is we keep their names confidential until they have accepted an interview. So we would talk about them, you know, um we would talk about them by I usually assign a random number, you know, >> all right. >> Um and I'll may come in and if I if we were doing, let's say if we were doing an allout open search, a lot of those you would get, you know, sitting superintendent, that sort of thing. And so they don't necessarily want their name out there because if they don't even get it they they don't get an interview or they don't >> um >> right that could hurt them and that hurt them in

023their experience. >> There's another reason. >> So that ties into that. >> I'm just telling you what the best practice was. >> Right. >> I'm just that must have taken a long time to have it didn't take that long. >> No. >> Cuz they would say okay everybody's here. please within the next two days come in and review in the boardroom. So it's like a skip. >> Yeah. >> And then when you're done everyone would have theirs and you'd have to give the packet back to >> the secretary. >> And some of that may have been also quite honestly that um >> it was we were an electronic age. >> Correct. >> There was a lot sent everything else paper. If you printed all every application off for >> every board member, that's a lot

024of paper. >> So, that could be part of it as well. >> Can I ask a question? Once we get our applicants um and we are going to then get into the process of selecting who we want to interview from those applicants, correct? Mhm. >> Do you provide for us some sort of um guidelines in terms of what we should be measuring if we could give a measure to these applicants in terms of how do we weed out um who we want to interview. I I'm sure that some of those characteristics are things that we have to decide. Will that be part of this process that we as a board decide what are our priorities as we look at the even the basic applicants? Right. >> Okay. So I'm going to again go to if

025we were doing an external intern search. The only thing that I do is we would say um you we've developed that criteria after you've surveyed the community your opin what you want in next superintendent and then I will look at those and I would say all right let's say we had um 12 people apply to a position I would look at them and say these are the ones that I believe have the experience and fit the criteria area that this school district is looking for. So I I I would put them in the I I call it my top tier. >> Mhm. >> Um but and then I'd have everybody else in the bottom tier. And since it's electronic, you can choose anybody you want. Um you can look at all you can you see

026them all. So you have a chance. It's not just me looking at them. But I do try to prioritize and say this is what you said you were looking for. These ones in my opinion look like they fit what you've asked for the most. Doesn't mean you have to go with them. And then usually so let's say um we have we we had 15 people apply and I would like you to choose. Um that's why we give you the information a little bit in advance. Look it over. Here's what I feel the top tier is. Here's everybody. come to the board meeting on Monday night with your top six >> and then I just go around by number and I ask each board member what numbers do you have? My I guess my further question

027though is like do you give us guidance in terms like even like a like a numerically valued rubric say so that we are able to do this as objectively as possible or >> I I do not >> okay >> I do not >> okay >> yeah it's it's really looking at what you said you wanted in the superintendent and you go through and how does that fit with your criteria for each person. Do they have the experience that you're looking for? Do they do they um have they demonstrated, you know, whether it's visibility in the community or whatever it is, you know, those sorts of things. Do they, you know, have they shown? We wanted someone that had been involved in negotiations as this person that's done that before, that sort of thing. So, >>

028okay, >> it's kind of hard to put a rubric as everything's everybody's a little bit different how I'm looking at it. Make sense? >> Mhm. >> Yep. >> Okay. Um All right. >> All these questions help make other slides go fast. >> Yes. Well, probably there's probably a lot here that I have uh could skip over and I can't remember if we went through this slide. So, um again, in the recruitment phase, we just ask that the district post meetings, post everything that we're doing. And here's an important part. Um when anybody in the district or even if you get asked questions by potential candidates, direct all of them to me um and I can work on getting their answers, that sort of thing. So, that's typically what we do. Send them to one source.

029Um usually that's not an issue. They know that, but you never know. So, even [clears throat] though I'm sure you know this, it's some boards miss out on this and I want to make certain. Um, when you look at qualifications required for a superintendent, they should have a uh administrator certificate and then they also have to renew that um by doing 150 hours of of uh professional learning. It could be taking classes at college level, that sort of thing. Have to do that every 5 years. and then then you pay the state of Michigan some money and they'll give you a piece of paper. So, um it's uh you can, as I'm going to show you right here, you can go with someone that's not certified. I'm not going to go through that process cuz

030chances are you'll have all certified people, but there is a process. If someone applied and wasn't certified, you really wanted to interview them, we could we can we can get you there. Um, but I have a feeling that uh with um an internal only you're only going to get certified people that apply. I'm not going to go through these slides because I just put them in there so you'd have it. Things that we typically look for, you know, obviously an educational background when we're doing a a an overall search, it's interesting sometimes when it goes nationwide some of the applications you get. So, I'm going to be honest. If I get one that's doesn't have anything close to have an educational background, I just I don't give you those to to look at. But anyway,

031um usually look for advanced degrees. You usually look for um what kind of professional development they've done. Have they been to uh um MASA has a program? That's the the uh superintendent association um horizons program or MLI which is the Michigan leadership institute. They run their soups academy. So those are kind of things you're looking at um when you do it. You also want to look at what are their districtwide responsibilities contract negotiation and operations. Have they have they been through a bond if that's what you're looking for? Um that sort of thing. Um what experience you have with budget development? So, those are just you don't have to have it, but I'm just want to make sure you everyone if you haven't been through the process before, I wanted to make certain you knew

032that. Um, when you get to the interview phase, normally we go through two interviews. Uh, with internal ones, we typically have one interview and it'll be about um an hour. It's usually an hour, an hour, 15 minutes long. Um and again in the interview phase even internally uh we can talk about this but let's say you had two people apply internally and it's obviously that they are qualified. Um we could just set up the interviews. Um but if we get say someone that's doesn't fit what you're looking for it still really needs to be the board deciding. So we we need to come together and say you know let's say you had five but three of them are not what I would call ready for the position but still you have to decide if you

033want to interview all five or um interview just a couple or whatever the case is. Um, I will advise that in my opinion that uh you really shouldn't grant courtesy interviews just because somebody applied. You know, this is an important position. Um, the most important position in the district. It's actually the only employee that has to be employed by a district. So, um, don't ask me how you do a school district without teachers, [clears throat] but the law says you just have to have superintendent. Um, I'll again facilitate the wowing process. You'll you would you would choose who you're going to interview. I have a board prep that we would go through. Um, I will I can't remember if it's I will suggest when we do the interview board prep, we'll talk about things to

034look for as you're going through an interview. Um, I will bring in I have a bank of questions that I will get sample questions. I'll put them together, suggest them to you. That is also your time to be able to add your own questions that fit what you're looking for in in Granville. >> But I bring them in. So, you have to have a starting place cuz if I just came in and said, "Okay, let's start working on questions." We would be here for hours. So, um the uh I would I notify the candidate candidates for interviews. I set the times up. um in the interview process it they are open to the public and so when I say collect community interview questions and collect community input on interviews when we're doing what we call

035the second round which really for you will be the first round um we do two things we have uh anybody that's in the audience we have feedback forms they can write on those forms what they think of the candidates after they've interviewed and we'll have someone here that that night will make copies of them for us for each of you so you can see what every person in the audience is written down. The second thing that we do is um we people in the audience are allowed to ask questions. They can write down questions about 10 to 15 minutes into the after the interviews towards the end of the interview. Um, I would collect those. I have a little signal, collect them from people, kind of look them over, take out the duplicates. Um, make

036sure there's nothing I've never had it happen. Make sure there's something that they really shouldn't be saying in public. Um, and uh um and then I take those and and give them to the board president and the board president can decide if they're if he's going to read those or not and ask those questions. Um also in the second round, first round we never have um we never have followup questions, ask clarification questions, but we stick right to the script. This is kind of the second round. So you will be able to ask a follow-up question if something you're there and there'll be an opportunity um the president can can ask you is there any other questions? that sort of thing when we get towards the end of the uh interview process or is a

037followup to the employ something that that that that will happen. Um just to let you know that point of concern. So, when we hired Dwayne Sheldon 33 years ago, um the board did something with the recruiter, and I don't know who the recruiter was cuz I was just a candidate at the time. Um, but they pretty much had 25 people that were just non-board members interview these for an hour each. Um, they never did it again. [laughter] >> I don't know why. >> Uh, yeah, it got kind of wild. What? Um, but we have never for past allowed public questions and I'm not comfortable with that. So, we can discuss it, but I'm not comfortable with it. >> Well, I just want to make sure to, you know, it's still our decision whether we actually

038ask. >> Correct. >> Yeah. Right. >> And and if you decide as a board you don't want that part to happen. >> Yeah. I I I I work for you. >> So, >> and I I just think from that perspective, I think it could create if you pass on a question could create some [clears throat] real feelings in the audience. >> Fair enough. >> You know what I'm saying? >> I like I like the comments, >> right? Maybe >> we always get comments. We always get comments. That's fantastic. People can state I think how they view the candidate. Is there any way that we could solicit questions prior to the meeting >> that could be with a disclaimer saying not all questions will be able to be addressed during the meeting >> and this will

039be to the discernment of our our board >> and then ask them. I don't know. I just thought there might be that happy medium. >> I understand I understand a desire to do that, right? I mean, and and this is kind of a maybe even more of a a bigger broader, you know, uh uh statement on a couple of things in the proposed timeline, right? Whether it be even the community input sessions, right? >> I look at it two ways. Uh first off, if I felt personally that we were we had some major issues we need to to address, if we were going in the wrong direction as a district, right? You know, if I felt >> our community >> Mhm. >> thought we were going in a bad direction, right? I would say this

040would be important for us to do. I think the majority of our community, a lot a vast majority of the community and the vast majority of probably everyone here on the board feels we're going in the right direction, right? So, it's not something we really need to go out there and solicit a lot from. Um, second, I guess I look at it and for this board, right, we agree on a vast majority of things. Do we have things that we disagree on? Absolutely. Right. But a vast majority of the things we agree on. Um, but we're not a monolith. And what I mean by that is most of you, I don't see you for the two weeks I'm not here. Meaning, we've all been elected. We've all been chosen by the community to do this

041as one of the main things we do. Mhm. >> And because we don't really uh hang out, if you will, on the outside and hang with the same group of people, >> we really represent a vast a large portion of of the community. So again, I guess I go back to the fact that because we all have our pockets of people that we know and that we are interacting with. We are gathering input from those folks, whether they be Bob, his wife, and the teachers, you know, and and the community members he knows, you know, the folks you know from the elementary schools and so forth, right? Who you know from kindergartens and and the in the east world and in the high school world and so forth, right? And we all have these different

042pockets. So I think we really have a good I feel we have a good pulse on what that community is. >> Well, you know what? I'm going to push back on that a little bit because >> we are all middle to middle upper class people here. Correct. I mean that's I'm going to make that assumption >> and there is some pretty large pockets of people in our community that are not represented by socioeconomically here on this board. >> And I'm not saying that I don't disagree what you're saying in terms of the direction of our our our district. I don't um but I do wonder if we do not give voice to some of the things that maybe we just are not aware of because I'll be honest with you, my circles don't necessarily dive

043into some of those areas in our community. They just don't. I'm older and I don't have younger kids and so I'm not with a lot of these younger parents that might be struggling or are just concerned or want to see or have desires for certain things in our district that I'm not aware of. I'm not trying to put us all in the same bucket, but I would say that we're similar enough in that way. And even though my circles are not your circles necessarily, I don't think our circles up here are necessarily some of the circles down here. And I just I think without having to bring in like a multitude of um you know micro problems, micro issues, I'm not wanting to welcome that necessarily, but I do wonder if there's a way that

044we could find a a vehicle by which we could gather some of those thoughts and concerns and feelings and questions that people that might be far outside of our circles of of society here in Granville that maybe we could give them an opportunity to express some of their thoughts and feelings about this process. >> Isn't Isn't that exactly what the comment portion would be for? Maybe to share those views. >> But that's a shar views, but it's not necessarily an asking of question. >> That's that's that's a little bit different. >> Are you I guess I'm trying to understand. I would say for priorities for the district and priorities for the administration going forward, I I understand what you're saying. I don't necessarily agree that that is the right way to try to focus collecting

045of input for the selection of the superintendent because I don't know how you do it unless you do good to your point, right? is there's what I hear you saying and maybe I'm wrong >> is that you're looking for a certain socioeconomic viewpoint or even um yeah I guess it's it's a social and economic viewpoint that may not be represented here with the people here right um and I don't know how you get that unless you do a very focused survey with that group um >> well I don't know if you're going to ne I'm not even saying that you're necessarily going to get that Jason I'm just saying that when we don't have an avenue for people who want to have some input into this process when we don't have that available to them.

046I think that is exclusive in a sense that they they might want to bring up things and yeah, they could make it in the comments, but how do they get their questions asked, >> you know? So, I I'm not saying just an open blank, you know, anybody's got a question and ask your questions and we're going to ask them. I I >> I guess I would say a couple things. Every one of our emails is posted on the school website, right? Um, and we have board meetings twice a month. They don't have to only bring their comments to one of these sessions. They can email them to us. They can I >> can I just say please? Yeah. >> I concur 100% with what Jason is saying for both of those points. I think if

047we try to cover the entire world within this community of opportunity for input, we'll never get there. So I think this is the most effective process. It has worked for the most part in the past and I again I how many times do I 100% agree with Jason? [laughter] Well, I guess I would like to ask you, Mark, you know, what have your experiences been with people districts in gathering questions from the community? [snorts] >> Well, the way we've gathered is if you're here, you can write a question and we can ask it. >> I my thought is two things. One, if people are really interested, they're going to let you know what they think. um they will contact you and let once they know who is out there, who is being interviewed, they will

048contact you and let you know their thoughts. Um, if you just say we're taking questions, who knows how many questions we could you could get and it would get so I almost wonder if in the community and staff in kind of those engagement meetings if for example one of the prompts would be what are some questions that you think you know we should just as a prompt where maybe we could get some ideas and Then as we're formulating all all of our interview questions, right, then we, you know, take that into account >> and and and also make it clear that we're not going to ask every single question, but we're going to take themes of questions that we collect over all of the interviews and surveys that you do within the community and the

049staff >> and and kind of compile and and create the bank of questions from that. Would that be something that would >> I mean when I do the community input questions and the staff input I have like four questions I ask them. >> Okay. >> And one of them is not what questions do you have? >> Right. >> I'm going to ask them >> what is good about Brandville? What are challenges you see for the district for the next three to five years? Um, what experiences do you want to see in your next superintendent? What kind of like kind of like where have they been? You know, what what what what would they like to see? What's their background been? And what are characteristics that you would want to see in your um next superintendent?

050And those are good questions because I think they invite some of the actual things that we're talking about here. >> And I was going to talk about that a little bit later. >> Um, so you have an idea, but that's what we do. And I'm going to be honest, it's a mixed bag in what you get when you do the community one. >> I've had ones where I thought, I'm going to have a full house. There's no way this seating is going to work. And and uh and I'll get four people. I've had I've been put in auditoriums and I had four people show up, >> you know. Um some smaller districts, it's like I could fill this room easily. It's it's the weirdest thing. I've been in big districts. I can't get anyone. >>

051Um sometimes with the staff >> cuz we I would normally go in and kind of getting ahead of my slide, but Bob, it'll take me quicker when I get there. Um, when we when I go in, we limit them to 60 minutes because some and I keep them focused on those things because some some once in a while you're going to give somebody that wants to go off on a tangent and that's not what we're not here to solve every issue that they see in Granville. We're here to find out what are you looking for in a superintendent. So, you don't go to those sessions. I go to it and I keep it focused on that. Um and it's you know during the day I will like usually it's right after school hours I try

052to meet with um I come in on in the district like on one day maybe two days of come in I meet with like central office staff I meet with um the administr the entire administration I do these about 40 maybe sometimes it's uh union leadership. So, and then I will offer a staff um like typically right after school depending on you know where sometimes it's just in one high school, one secondary building and one elementary. Depends on what the time schedules are. >> So, you will go to each individual building. [clears throat] No, >> I wouldn't go to each one. I probably I don't know how many buildings you have, but let's say you I think you had one high school, right? >> One high school. >> And this is and this is part

053of the process, right? And and that you know, I guess I view it as again if if we were going outside, if we had pro we had major things we need to turn the ship around. I I would fully support this, but I from the people that I have spoken to and I don't know what the rest of you guys, right, but I'm overwhelmingly hearing keep the train going forward, keep going, keep building what we have. >> It's not course correct. That's not what I'm hearing. Okay, keep the Go ahead. I'm sorry. >> I'm going to say it again. [laughter] >> How many times do I agree 100% with Jason? It's the same piece here. >> I don't hear all that all the time, but [laughter] I just want I want you to know that

054that is not completely a blanket truth. And so I I just guess I want to make sure that we have the opportunity to explore the areas where in this position that we could address some of the areas that others per perceive as weaknesses. >> Yeah. And I I will say it that's good that you're not hearing that all the time because then you're that piece of that voice of that community, right? That >> which is why she's how do we get those voices in? >> So and I agree with Bob. I agree with Bob like right I agree that I don't >> this is like oh my god I got to play the lot [laughter] >> we we do not like I I don't there are times when we know that we have a million

055uh public comments that >> are are not going to be conducive to what we need to do to find a superintendent. I'm 100 I 100% agree with that. I also do agree that there needs to be some type of um open and you're right like I think people can email and all that stuff. We can collect those questions. I do think that as um you know you're going to make sure that you're going okay well okay that sounds more of like an interpersonal building problem like okay that's something that you would take to your principal that's something you would take to your teacher right because we know that that's what ends up happening. we forget the ladder, the rungs of the of the ladder, right? So, um, but I also think that we need to

056make sure that my cell phone fell on the ground. We also need to make sure that >> we we do like I'm very proud of this district. I also know that there are some things that are are things that are of concern. Um, >> and again, right, we always say this, Roger has left this district in in good shape, right? He's leaving >> with a lot of of empathy and compassion and all of that thing for some of these things that are happening that are outside of all of these great things that happen too that I believe happen also. >> And I think Jason just >> Oh, go ahead. >> Just in the the process that Mark outlined, are you saying that you don't even like you you wouldn't need the community input or the

057staff input? You would skip that also or I would. >> Yeah, I would. I would. Yeah, it if we wanted to do something maybe a community survey that was through Survey Monkey, a very simple thing. >> I disagree with that completely. I do not I think we need to have a >> a staff and a community input. I I don't think that is a wise thing to do. I really >> And why is that? again because I think the more opportunity you give people to at least have the opportunity. They might not take it but they have the opportunity to have their voice be heard. >> At least you can say we gave you a chance to express your your opinion >> and you if you don't do that then they can say where where

058did I have a chance to say anything? But why would that serve that survey quick survey not fill that bill? >> Okay, maybe I misunderstood you, Jason. I'm sorry. >> So, you're saying, okay, what? Clarify for me what you would do then. Maybe then I >> I wouldn't do all the individual meetings if we wanted to do a survey of staff and community like we've done on a number of different things, right? >> Okay. Maybe we do something like that, but a simple one, right? because I don't want to get because there's so much out there and I don't know someone just mentioned that right you're gonna get so many voices right you know potentially so many voices >> and I don't want to get >> paralysis by analysis >> and I agree that >>

059and again at the end of and I go back to the fact that we were selected maybe they don't know it right but they they we were elected to do I always say three things right you know set the rules approve the budgets and hire and fire the superintendent, right? Those are the three things we do. And if the people that voted for us, right, you know, can't trust us with that and we feel we have to go out and find all this new information that we don't already know as the board. I find that troublesome because that means we're not connected to our community. And then two, I got to tell you, through this process, I'll probably be talking to more people than what I normally talk to just to make sure I do

060have the the pulse of what I feel or what the my view is that pulse of what our community has, >> right? >> So, I mean, I guess I don't know. And so I go >> I guess >> my concern is one it is an internal search and >> I want to make sure that when this person you know who takes the position and ultimately end kind of ends up there >> that it is a very robust process so they don't end up a little bit later on and everybody being like well nobody talked to the teachers about this person right I want to because I think it sets this person up better to know that we actively saw sort of community input. Um, you know, because without it, I mean, like I said, so

061I think, you know, talking to people, right? Like I talk to people, but I certainly do not talk to everyone in the district. And I think it'd be very easy to if you're only kind of relying on that. I think that kind of ends up just sort of giving you a very one-sided perspective perhaps, right? Like you're like, well, you know what? If you miss people, >> let me ask a question based on >> Yeah. >> your u thought there. So if that were to occur and someone gave their input so that the intent is they have a voice, we take their input, but we don't ask the question or the area that they want. >> Right? >> Then they're going to say, "They asked, >> I put it in. >> I felt like they

062they completely ignored me." So, >> it's >> you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. >> Yeah, I I mean I think that's a good point. I think and I can see how doing lots of these meetings [clears throat] would be timeconsuming. Um I do think though um it is really critical that with the community and with our teachers and staff. Um you know I I you know if if like >> I the teachers I know I would probably be okay talking to me or whatever but that's a subset. I I think even a survey um just to do our due diligence as to you know what do kind of what is their perception what do we need to do um I'm not a teacher in this district right so I don't know

063kind of necessarily what their experiences are and what they they need to see >> and and I will say there are two things that um I would rather be damned if I do you know what I mean with a survey that gives the voice to it and then we can say we're the experts. We are the ones that you've entrusted to look at these questions and see if they are valid concerns. Then the other thing is you made a really good point about setting up the next person like we have some really great candidates, right? And I know we're going to have amazing candidates internally, but you had mentioned what happened with um can't remember if you said it was with Greg Warson. >> Oh, >> when they when they when they just hired him

064right away. They didn't have like a lot of that, right? Like they it wasn't like an appointment instead of an interview process. And that did not that didn't go well for him, which wasn't fair, right? So, >> it didn't go well from the board's perspective, not the community. Well, but you know what we want to do is we want to make sure that we're not setting up our next person to be to be that person that damned if you do, damned if you don't. I don't I think that this survey is not a bad I think that's not a bad approach. It almost feels like a happy medium because as with Bob's and and I agree sometimes we get stuff that comes in here for questions that are just they just would they would undermine

065our whole process and and it would I think it would undermine our confidence in the people that we know are very qualified. But I do think that having surveys >> it it it gives people a sense of input and again not everybody does those surveys. Not everybody like a lot of people are like, "Oh, superintendent, I guess that's going to get hired." You know, >> and I think some of the wording of how you present this these questions is is paramount. I mean, um I agree with you. I I believe in representation and that's why we're here. No doubt. Period. The thing that I want to build off of that is the idea of trust. And I think when you have transparency and you are inviting people's voices even on a survey >> that I

066think that engenders more trust in the fact that yes I have we have people on this board that we voted in that not only can we trust but they trust us too >> to to give them our feelings and our opinions. And I think then also how you word how you invite a question. You you put a disclaimer on that. You say clearly we are you know the questions that we are seeking have to do with the qualities that we are searching for in our next superintendent. This are not about pinpoint issues or events that have occurred. >> Yeah. >> It is you know about characteristics and traits that we need in our leadership. >> Okay. >> And we may or may not use some of object here. >> Yeah. >> The survey we took,

067first of all, it is not open-ended, >> right? We did get away with that. >> So, I'm going to tell you the 10 questions right here. >> It is not open-ended because it becomes fingerpointing. It becomes it becomes attacks on the board. >> Um, it doesn't go in the direction that you want to when you speak to what you're looking for a superintendent. >> You're not looking to >> right >> solve all the ills of any district. So, you know, we ask the standard if you're a resident of the district because if it's going to the staff, they may not be a resident. They may work here. How long have you worked for the district if you are um you choose the type of stakeholder, parent, grandparent, teacher, you know, employee, whatever it is, would

068rather not say. Um, what minimum level of education do you want the board to consider when evaluating candidates for the position? And you get they, you know, anywhere from a bachelor's to a doctorate degree. Um, list the position of the of the of the uh positions that you would expect your superintendent to have held in the past. Um, and again, you can choose, [snorts] you know, there's like a dozen different things to choose. Teacher, building principal, superintendent, another district, assistant superintendent, finance director. It just goes on with all the positions in the district. Um, what are specific areas of expertise that the next superintendent should may possess? Um, from your perspective, how much weight should the board place on each area? So you rate, you know, budget and development, um, budget management, public relations, curriculum

069development, contract, labor negotiations, human resources management, contract administration, um, facilities management. So you rate those um, six different type of leadership styles. So we have leadership styles. Choose the two that uh, you believe um, management styles that you would like to see in your next superintendent. You have collaborative leadership, situational leadership, transformational, democratic leadership, servant leadership. Um, and it gives a little description on each one when you do it. Um, list exp um below listed below are specific experiences and skill areas that could be important when evaluating the superintendent candidates from your perspective. How much weight should the board place on each of these areas? And you and you rate those. And there's about uh 20 of them. Again, it's all focused on the superintendent, okay? >> And not really the whole everything in the

070district. Um, personal characteristics. Again, we list some characteristics. Rate the performance of these anywhere from honesty and ethical, transparent, problem solver, approachable, collaborative, those sorts of things. And the la excuse [clears throat] me the last question is um in choosing the next superintendent which path or strategy below do you think the board of education should take? Find a candidate candidate with the same basic educational educational management philosophy as the current administration but who can make some necessary changes. Find a very different candidate kind of candidate who is ready to take the district in a significantly different direction. find a candidate who will stay the course and continue the good work of the current administration. >> So based on those questions, >> that's pretty much >> the review of the superintendent. That is their annual review.

071>> Yeah. >> So based on that, I think we're closest to that. And then any other [clears throat] additional information if a board member wants to reach out to areas of the community, staff, parents to get their input, I think that is appropriate. But I I I truly think with this being an internal candidate with those questions, I don't think it's needed. >> Everyone here has advocated for a survey, right? I don't think anyone disagrees with that. Am I right? Okay. I'm I'm This is just interesting to me because I was interested in in um chatting with all of our principles in our district and I was told no because you know the consultant's going to come on is going to do all that with the staff and stuff across the district. So I'm like

072okay I won't I won't do that. But now you're saying >> that you feel like that's something that would be an appropriate thing to do. >> We have never done that. I would >> I would not recommend that. >> I would completely be understanding what you just said that >> what I'm saying is every question that Mark provided is equal to Rogers review. With Rogers review, we review with the superintendent. We don't go to individual administrators and ask them what they think. That's a 360 review. We stopped doing that when Ron was in his probably fifth year and he we did it because he asked for it. So that structure of this has probably been available for maybe seven years that we've done this formal state push down review process. So what I'm saying is

073um if you want to talk to administrator on your own I think it's stepping outside the responsibility of a board member. Um, I just do I think we need to stay focused on what our responsibilities are as a board member because to go to Gali and say, "Hey, Mike, what are you looking for differently? I think that is usurping authority in the district." Mark, you mentioned you didn't think that it would be wise for board members to go to like >> really when it's comes to that the principles report to the superintendent. It's it's when you just go that's why you have me come in when when you're looking for that and I talk with the administrators and get their input. um they quite often will be very guarded. Um they they're going to talk

074to a board member differently. Um and so we never recommend that you go directly to have your own meetings with individual or with a group of of principles, that sort of thing. Jason and I were texting maybe yesterday, might have been this morning, I can't remember. I'm still on cruise time. Um I I would be okay and I have never poo pooed any um focus group when it comes to a facilities improvement project. >> Never have. >> This is different. This is I have one employee and if my connections want to give me input I'm that's fine but that's my responsibility. So even if we do the survey it's going to be very I I'm not even going to give it much credibility. So I don't care if we do it. It's just going to

075be moot from my perspective. And for me, I like the survey because it's the damned if you do. Do you know what I mean? Like I like the survey concept. >> Even if it's just an assurance, >> it's not going to work. >> You know what I mean? Even if it's just to say we're assured, we're going in the right direction. Even if even if what you're saying is and and what we all a lot of us feel that it's it's good to have at least that survey that seems not that doesn't like you said it's not an open-ended give me three things that you feel about >> right >> but it does >> or c but it seems like it gives enough if we see that there's one area that's overall in that survey

076say low then we can start to think about that a little bit more pointedly. Do you know what I mean? So I I do like I do like the idea of a survey whether we give it weight individually or not. I think it also gives voice to everyone and even though [clears throat] like I I agree with you that it's that people will speak sorry I don't mean to like >> youbody [laughter] um I'm a hand talker um even if even if what we were talking about with if you go to individuals they will speak to you differently this takes out that element and it becomes an open-ended like please give us your feedback on what you think in Those those 10 categories are good, but >> yeah, >> I do think it's important to

077have some input. >> But those are the questions in that survey are different than what you ask in these engagement sessions. >> I ask those four questions, >> right? Those and so I think the information that we might get from those engagement sessions, right, would actually be a little bit different. like the survey is fine, but um I I sort of like what leadership style do you prefer? >> Um I don't really think that's that useful. I mean it's >> but the engagement questions are >> right. And so I just I again um I'm just thinking from the standpoint of being transparent and making sure that we provide opportunities for groups to say this is what I think is great this is is not. We might get irrelevant sort of information and that's fine. You

078can just ignore that. But I do worry that if if we say especially because this seems to be a pretty consistent process in superintendent. Am I wrong about that? Like do most districts offer this? >> Well, >> this is MASB's process. >> This is our MAS, but everyone that I do, we we go through this, >> right? >> Um >> every consultant does it differently. >> Right. Right. They typically do some sort of surveying, >> right? >> Um, >> and I'm going to be honest, the I did my last internal one, we did do it. Um, partially because they didn't know if when they got the process done if they would be going outside. >> They're pretty confident in what they had. Um, and they did go internally, but they still wanted me to do

079that. Um, so that's what we do. We usually put the you get most of your responses in a survey within the first 5 days. >> Um, I would expect to probably get 200 to 250 back. Um, that seems to be like the going rate. Although it's weird because again much smaller districts, I've gotten a ton of them and then larger ones like I don't know. No one's interested. So, it's >> and and I just want to because I I've heard the transparency word a couple times. This meeting is open to everybody right now, >> right? The next three meetings we have about this are open to everybody. >> Mhm. >> So, I I'm not I mean, I don't know how much more transparent we can get. I mean, we're going to have we're going to

080have public comment. >> For us, it's it's it's input for others is what I'm saying. >> They have the opportunity to come here and give public comment. they're going to have the opportunity to give public comment at the next three meetings associated with this search, let alone the other open meetings we have. >> Right. But would a teacher or staff feel comfortable? I mean, I'm I'm thinking just a, you know, in terms of a a staff engagement meeting, meeting with an external consultant. Um, I think they would probably be more comfortable with that versus coming and publicly uh that >> sending us a note. >> We've had plenty of teachers send us notes. >> Yeah. >> If it was important to them. I I guess I I know. I I don't know. Again, I want

081to be careful of >> it's not necessarily a democratic process, right? This is our job. This is what we're This is like one of the three things we're here to do, right? Yes. Yes, we get a chance to vote on that that budget once a year, right? Or twice a year. We get a chance to work on the policies, right, and go through that big old white binder, you know, and and make changes to that. >> And it's the the hire and the evaluation of superintendent, right? Um and if we if we don't feel our public entrust that in us, I kind of feel like, okay, >> right, I guess part of that public >> and I'm sorry, one one more thing. And last thing on that, and again, if we were going outside >>

082and we felt we had major issues in this district that we had to change course, then I would say yes, absolutely. Let's let's let's do all these sessions and let's we're going to take 12 weeks and we're going to get this thing right. I just I just don't feel we're there. >> I would agree. >> 100%. >> I Yeah, >> 100%. I you know what you if if you're I think I think you I Okay, I'm not what I'm going to say. I don't mean to insult anybody. Okay. >> Yeah. I think you need to reflect on how you feel you engage with the superintendent today, the issues you have, the positives you have, and then try to find resolution to the problems or issues that you have with the current superintendent and the way

083that that management is done. Roger is the one superintendent that I'm incredibly impressed with. And for me, I'm going to tell you that's a lot in the fact that Ron Kiff never tried to harness internal candidates. He never did. What did they do? They left the district to find the next level. Roger has done the complete opposite. He has he has seen where their desires are and he has tried to hone and mentor them and that is a huge value to this district >> for sure. >> So from my perspective I'm comfortable in this position. If if anything if we're going to do anything you can do a survey but to meet with staff I complete it. It's unnecessary. I think it's unnecessary because we all have our reach. So, okay, I'm done. We've we've

084beat this. Is it a dead horse yet, Mark? I don't know. But it's been a good conversation, but I don't want to do either. But I'd be okay with a survey. Everything else I think I'm going to get loud, but [clears throat] that's just me when my one voice. And >> if that survey tells us that we got to go in a whole new direction, then we may have to come back and reconsider. I mean that's the one the [laughter] most important question on the last one on that survey was are you I mean are you happy with it I don't know what it was happy with the direction of the the district or does it need >> exactly that's what I'm [laughter] saying >> and if it comes back like we would anticipate that

085stay the course then >> yes and or with a few minor tweaks right you know but if it comes back the other way and you know there's a overwhelming majority and we have more than 20 people respond right [laughter] let's say we got to go in a different direction >> and this will be sent out to every resident or adult resident in Grand Valley. >> The way typically we do it is I work with the district office to one send it all the emails for all the parents, students, staff send it in an email. It's posted on the district website. You post it on usually on their social media site. um whatever if it's typical to send I you know newspapers are kind of gone now I have no idea what's in this area that's

086typically it doesn't I'm sure unless Granville has some way of sending electronically a mailing to a survey out to every single resident um I would be shocked but if they do that's the only way you can do because if you if you really if you had to send it out like some districts do a newsletter still and they send it to all to all our residents. >> We do. >> Um that's timing wise it's probably a long time. >> Yeah. >> But it's on the website, social media, those kind of things where most parents sort of Yeah. And the people who are most involved I think will be the ones >> I think that's a good compromise. I think that you know I think so too at least providing >> I don't think there's a

087draw back to a certain >> No. Right. I don't like I I I think there's a drawback to saying we don't even care enough to survey. I I think that there is that >> even if it's just for image sake, >> you know what I mean? >> I don't think I said we don't care. >> No, no, no. But what I'm saying is what it looks like. I'm not saying you don't care. I'm saying what that looks like from a public perspective, right? Like I'm saying I don't think there's any drawback to a >> and especially if we're going to get what we are kind of assuming we're going to get, you know, >> cuz if anything I think it could in create a sense of distrust if we don't >> provide some sort of

088avenue for some way to answer these um questions on the survey. So >> if we don't provide that to the public and to especially our our st >> and it sounds like we're all on board with this at least a survey, right? So I agree. >> Yeah. Okay. >> So, just to be clear, so I'm here generate the survey. >> Yeah. >> Don't do the correct. >> Got it. >> What slide are we on? >> How many slides have we done? [laughter] >> I have 28. 18. And I think we've jumped around. >> Quite honestly, most of them talked about as we go through them. So, um, let me just see if this is kind of weird because again, this is one. >> So, c can I just say something really quick with regard to

089this slide? I'm gonna say it because I actually think this has the meaning and I I just want to make sure it's correct. So the words the phrase checking out candidates to me is equal to because these are all internal candidates includes talking to admin. So I from my perspective I I really want to caution board members to stay in their lane and not be talking to principles about what you want to see differently. I just want to say that >> I have a question about so you said that when we come in we're going to talk about them as far as numbers go and all that stuff. So like I'm going to be like okay you are one I am two she is three correct this is this is kind of the setup when

090we're talking about it in a public meeting correct >> yeah we had let's say we have candidate one candidate two right so when we get these when we get these in our emails are they set up with their names or are they set up they will have >> we get full we get >> right we get full disclosure but okay I just >> we have to be yeah full confidentiality yeah >> sure >> I had the same question I wasn't curious you'll get you'll get all their information and everything. Um, but it doesn't become public until they have accepted interview. >> So, and and we just >> quite honestly, you're going to know a lot about the candidates when you see them because they're internal. Mhm. Yeah. >> It's more of a external one when

091we're getting candidates that people don't know about and well this board member knows another board member in another district or whatever and they'll call and um we kind of we that's we frown on that. So um again I'm just going to be here to answer I facilitate. I don't make the I don't make the decision. I'll help you in the decision-m phase and help you make the decision come to a consensus on that. Um, again, it's all public and um when it gets to and hopefully you would do it on the night you do interviews. Um, you'll see that I have usually when we complete them, board members can make their decision. Sometimes we have a backup date um or you come back um with your final decision. But uh typically if you make the

092points, you make a decision, you just um you know you if somebody makes a motion for a person to enter into a contract negotiation with candidate A or whatever and you vote on that and then the next meeting once you get all set um contracts you you officially uh um hire that person but you enter into contract negotiation. Um, again, it's just decision- making. We just make certain that uh any the district just handles the getting the communications out, hosting the meetings, that sort of thing. Um, there are some things within the uh onboarding process in which, you know, there certain things that we can't do as a district. The district is required to get the criminal background check. district is to is required to contact the previous district to see if there's any any

093uh any red flags there. Um I slipped my mind the word I want, but you won't actually have to do that because they're already here. So you don't have to contact yourself to see. Hopefully you would know if they was uh any misconduct um in their work before that time. Um, but again, it's required by the state of Michigan when you bring somebody in new. We can't do that. You have to do that. >> Um, >> you manage the process. We manage the candidate. >> Right. Exactly. Um, >> kind of went through this whole slide here. We've talked we're doing the survey, but we talk about feedback. Um, and we'll talk about later as far as if we just want feedback forms or if you want to take any suggestion, any questions from the comment

094when we we come back and talk about the interview process, we can you can decide that. Um, don't need to go to that slide. Um, once we get there, um, you've hired your superintendent. We're not going to leave you high and dry. Um, we'll, uh, be here to answer questions for you. Um, typically we have a superintendent board transition workshop where you set some goals and we help facilitate that. You may or may not want that with an internal um, but it is part of the process. Um, and then we we do have people that check in to see how your superintendent is doing. Um, this is kind of saying the same thing I just said. Um then we just same thing for the superintendent and that's it for that part. Okay. And then so

095let's if you look at the left hand side I have provided you with u my first time the the timeline that I think would be workful and >> preferable. Um but without doing the meetings I'm going to have to think about if we can do it a little quicker. This still gets this still gets you done by the week [clears throat] of March 16th. >> Okay. >> I do have another one >> where we shorten some things up, but we're doing February 11th right now. >> Mhm. >> Um so I would I can probably get this survey out. I'll work with the whoever in the district. I'm thinking I uh is it Holly? >> Yeah. Mhm. >> work with her to we've been a little bit of contact through email about how to get how

096things are sent out around the district. So, >> I'll work with her on getting that set up. Um, and then uh I can get the survey out. >> It should be out for at least 7 days. So, you can see on here I have it closing on February 26th. um which is most of it will be come back within the first 5 to 7 days. Um we need a couple day turnaround and then um I come back and give you those results and I have March 2nd here and I think I'm thinking you may have already have a board meeting that night but I'm not 100% certain on that >> probably. Um, and so I'm flexible on my dates on that. But that's when um, you know, if there's anything that stands out or I

097could develop the I'll come in and show you. Here are the results. Here is the um, here's the selection criteria that I think. Um, we could change it up however you want at that time. and I would come back at that one and and do the uh interview questions, get those ready to go. Um, and then the posting would close. I have it closing on March 9th and we can uh I get you I would get you the information back to you by the 10th. Um, then I come in here on the 11th. Hey, Mark, real quick. When where do you have it? Where do you have it posting? When does the posting go up? >> Can the posting go up on the 13th? >> The the Well, yeah, the the posting I have it

098ready to go. So, >> it can go up as early as tomorrow. >> Okay. But so, we leave it up for 10 10 working days or what's what's the typical? >> Um, >> he's got posted closing work. >> We want to leave it up for at least We want to leave it up for at least 10. >> Okay. Um, we I usually like to have it up until after the selection criteria comes back. So, >> but that's in a full 12week process, >> right? >> And that what they'll do is it we'll talk about the posting in a minute, but >> we'll leave it open a little longer. So, it gives candidates chances to gather um recommendation letters, okay? >> Depending on other people to get that kind of stuff done. >> Um, so there's

099we'll talk about that part in just a second. It's usually a little longer, but um you know, seeing how it is internal only, uh that's what I So, I think I can have it up by the end of the week and that would give them at least two weeks to get it out there. But >> yeah, so you're looking at 15 days if you pull it down. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, um and then I come back I'd give you the information on the 10th. I come back on the 11th and I put on there if it's necessary. Let's say you had two people and I'm going to say it's two highly qualified members from your from your district that you already know. Um it's it's very obvious they we may not have to

100come back. I can just set the interviews up. >> Mhm. >> Um let's see. You had a half a dozen. Now all of a sudden I need you to find out. Tell me which ones. >> Um so >> so what you're saying is we close on the 9th, we get the packets on the 10th. Um the 11th is ad hoc if we receive an abundance of candidates and not >> a few [clears throat] >> qualified. Mhm. So you have a meeting on the 11th already? >> No. >> First and third. >> So second >> first and third Monday. >> Yeah. So second. So we would look for that March 2nd meeting. That board workshop. >> The 3rd, 4th, 5th. Do we want to set a date right now >> while we're looking at it? >>

101Anybody have a preference? March 3rd, fourth, fifth? >> Uh Wednesday the 4th. So I'm I'm slightly confused for a minute here because the way >> I thought it was going to stay open >> until the 3. >> Yeah. You think they keep it open for a little over two weeks or 15 days? Yeah. >> So why would we meet on the fourth? >> For the uh the criteria, the interview question development and that type of thing. >> Okay. >> That's really kind of putting together. >> I can't do the fourth. Sorry. >> Third, fifth. Anybody got a preference there? I can do the third or the fifth >> as well. >> I can do either of those. Me, too. >> Third. >> All right. Let's do back to back. Let's do the third. >> Okay,

102>> fine. >> Who's bringing snacks? >> Yeah. >> So, where it says the March 2nd, make that March 3rd. >> March 3rd. Okay. Okay. Got it. Um, >> 7 o'clock. >> Yep. The other one that I need to date is I had the interview set for um the week of I just put the week of the 16th, March 16th. And curious if there's >> I just need to pick a date. I >> have Monday. Yeah, we do have a board meeting that day. >> Yeah, >> I would suggest doing a board meeting. Do Wednesday. >> Let's do the 18th. >> 17th St. Patrick's Day. Let's do the 18th. >> So, >> yeah, >> that's the week that I'm I'm supposed to be in Las Vegas, March 16, 17, 18, and flying home like getting home

103like at noon on the 19th. >> Okay. So, then >> can we crunch the amount of time that the posting is open? >> I mean, if it came down to it, I could This is a good enough reason for me to tell them that I can't go on that trip, [laughter] >> which wouldn't bother me. That's right. >> So you you tell us what what's the do we move to? >> So if you want to do it on if if Wednesday works for people then I'm fine with saying that then I can tell them I can't go on the trip. >> He wants us to say Wednesday [laughter] >> the 18th it is. >> You realize it's being recorded right? [laughter] >> He's good. He's good. >> My boss say I'm pinching him. I'm pinching

104him. He's saying that because I'm asking him to. So 18th >> Saturday the 18th right is what we're saying >> if there's one if so let's say there's one candidate >> okay >> I I just want to go with a hypothetic >> let's say there's one candidate is there a need for a second interview >> if we feel good after the first one think >> we weren't doing we don't have this isn't include a second interview >> this is only one >> one interview >> yeah one and done >> okay >> and then we would go into um negotiation ations. If that that candidate look is what we're looking for, we would make a motion to go into can into a negotiation. >> Okay. So, you're going to create you're going to provide all of

105us with an updated schedule cuz I'm chicken scratching on this right now. >> March 18 is the date. >> I think we decided March 18th. >> I understand that. If you could provide an updated schedule based upon what we just talked about, Mark, and give it to everybody, that would be wonderful. >> Okay. So I have said of March 2nd, March 3rd. >> Yep. >> March 2nd. >> Um >> and then interviews on March 18. >> Mhm. >> I'm going to take out the community engagement part. >> Yep. >> Um and then do you want an alternate decision board decision later or you just want to leave it to TBD? >> TBD. Yep. Yes, I can do that. You're good with that. I can do that. >> And the only other change was the the

106posting range or is that still pretty much the same? >> That'll be the same based on the time we just kind of reviewed it would be the same. >> Okay. Now, um is my understanding that um during the interview process and maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, I don't know. Um we all do we all formulate questions together? Do we >> Well, that will be part of that uh March 3rd meeting. Develop the selection criteria, develop the interview questions. >> Okay, perfect. That's I will >> and he'll bring a whole >> probably about 15 questions that we'll have prepared and I will assign them to each of you. We'll we'll make up I'll come with sample questions. We'll choose which ones you're going to ask. I'll make up packets for each candidate so you can

107write on them and all that and score them and that sort of thing the way you want to and then um however because this is what we are considering a second one if you get in the in the interview and you need you want to ask a followup you will be able to do that. Um, >> first round we always say stick to the script, >> but second round it's it's a little more I don't know if I want to say it's conversational, still it's still formal, but it's >> freestyle. >> Yeah. Um, it [snorts] typically, let's say we were doing outside, we did the first round, everybody gets the same question. Then we narrow it to two. We come to the second round. >> We may have some slightly a couple slightly different questions

108for each candidate based on what we most most of the time 90% of them are saying but some someone may have had an experience that we brought back and you want to hear hear something about it. So it could happen in your second round here. We'll have the same questions for both, but you could be sitting here and you know I want to ask Bob, you know what what uh candidate Bob what something about his past a little bit more about that expand more about your experience working on a bond or whatever like whereas the other person may not have had ever been a part of a bond so you're not going to you wouldn't you probably wouldn't ask that question because you already knew that. So, >> okay. >> Does that make sense? >>

109Yep. >> Mhm. >> So, we want a set set of questions, but there is some freedom for you to be able to have a followup or something really comes up that you need to know, um, you'll be able to do that. Agreed. >> Perfect. >> Okay. All right. Let's take a look at next. I made the posting up here. Um, and what I did is this one, as you'll see here, it does have uh um a candidate profile, which is kind of like some of what we use for our selection criteria, but um I did take the posting from the last time around and include some of these things uh in in doing this. So, I just wanted you to have that. You could see it there. These were the credentials that you asked for

110last time. Um, again, I guess it does say expected credentials. So, even if they didn't have a certificate right now, which I'm guessing everybody that applies will have it. >> Um, there's >> it's always safe, you know, just to say expected. >> Yeah. Rather than saying required. That's what >> because they could be in the right. They could be finalizing. >> Yeah. So, um, you know, I did the five years of teaching experience and three years of successful admin. That came off of your last one. Is that >> correct? Agreement on that? >> Yeah. >> Um, so you can see here everything will be sent to me and this is what we will have I will send to probably your HR person. >> It'll be posted on the website. >> Yeah. Holly or Holly or

111Raj? >> You will give it to Holly? >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, whoever Holly told me, >> it just needs to be make sure it's however you post it internally. >> Yeah. It's all your communication should go to Holly. >> Holly. Yes. >> Roger is the uh parliamentarian of >> Mhm. >> what this process is >> and we just ask him a question occasionally. So, everything should go to Holly. >> Okay. Yeah. Um and then again, um we'll put it have her put it on the website. This is the posting. We would not send out on social media. Um and distribute it however you distribute internally or other posts. >> Yes, that's what we do. >> Yes. >> Um and everything will come to me. Now, one thing I want to ask because it is

112a shorter timeline. I still recommend we do I did put three letters of recommendation. That's typically what we ask for. >> Um I think that's pretty standard everywhere. >> It is it is standard >> and you know what and if it's then we just consider it at the time. >> Okay. >> But I still think that's sufficient time. >> Okay. We >> most people most people it is I was revising some for one for someone today and they asked me it's like so my former principal said >> you know what let's say there's four candidates and and one of them only gives us two. They're not going to get a ding. >> I mean come on we're reasonable >> right? Um and and since we have a system that normally we have to apply through

113our system, but if we put it in that system, then it goes to everybody in in the like 12 different states. Um so it's an internal only. So that's why it's everything is electronically emailed to me. >> Got it. >> Okay. >> So we don't go through that system. >> So we're good on that. Yep. Y I will uh >> there weren't any changes. Correct. >> Correct. >> All right. I just had to fill in some dates there and I will get that to Holly. Hopefully I can get it tomorrow to her maybe Friday morning or tomorrow evening. But >> um hopefully she doesn't look at Friday morning. >> But I know most assistants and most school people doesn't matter what time of the day it is, they can't look at itself. He's here right

114now. >> Taking notes. >> Scott will make sure Holly gets it. So, you know, he's he's he's our back wall here. >> Okay. Got it. >> Finally, the last piece that I have in there, and I know in in talking with with Jason and Bob, you're going to work with Williams and company, but it's still and I think that's great. Um they do a lot of work to help districts and superintendents negotiate a contract. Uh so they know what they're doing. Uh but we do like to provide just to give you an idea in your area schools that are somewhat your size. You can't always get to your size. Um like for example, I was going to look at I think it was uh um Forest Hills. Well, they're I didn't realize how big Forest

115Hills was. They're over they're almost 10,000 students about twice the size getting a little big. Even Rockford was getting a little bit up there but you >> you can't really >> It's okay Red. >> Yeah, >> that's okay. You got to know what Rockford's doing. >> So, um >> I guess what I'm saying here is the other part of this is the little caveat and really for you this is just to give an idea. If we were going externally I'd say we get I'm recommending the salary range for you but this is to give you an idea. It's not an exact science because if you look over at the year um like for one Calonia it's the 20 it's 2023 and the other ones are 2024. There's no place in the state that you have

116to send this to. So MASB does the best they can to look up like at the Meno Center for example usually ask districts for their superintendent contracts and and they go through and comb through those. >> Um that's how we get these things. I want to just let you know that the pension is a fixed cost. You don't have any control over that. >> Usually when it comes to insuranceances um you know sometimes someone will not have any insurance. doesn't mean they're not getting insurance. It means that they're they're probably on their spouse's plan or something like that. >> So, the biggest things you look at are probably just the salary, um annuities, um in the other section, and you never know what the other section is. So, some of them will have travel, some

117of them don't. Um but that's just to give you an idea. And again, not an exact science, but quite honestly, sometimes you take it to boards and they're shocked. >> Um, they want a quality candidate, but they don't want to pay for. >> So, Mark, I got a couple questions and I want to give a little bit more information to the board with regard to this. Um at one point with regard to setting up um pay when they were setting up retirement for the state when it came to superintendence or any probably anybody high in admin. Wasn't it that they took their first three years and then their final three years or was it just the first? there's a lawsuit going on with regard to that. Can you can you kind of give a a

118quick overview real quick? >> Yes. So typically your if you were on the old retirement plan which is the defined benefit plan um you take your highest three your your pension is based on your your highest three consecutive years of employment um salary wise and then there's a formula for all that I don't know how far back it was because this did it didn't affect me and so I kind of lost track of it. Um I'm trying to think of the agency that they felt that superintendents were getting too big a raises I guess toward they were getting like golden parachutes at the end >> at the end. Correct. >> They were getting money at the end. And so I can't think of the agency they they said no we're not they wouldn't and so

119they wouldn't give superintendent they said no we're only going to give you like a certain percentage of that or something we're not count all that there's been lawsuits going and quite honestly I don't know where it's at at this point going back and forth and every time it gets settled that it works in the superintendent's favor it gets put on some sort of it gets appealed and put on some sort of hold and so I Yeah. >> Okay. So, the reason I wanted to bring that up because past boards when I was first >> when I was first um on the board, [sighs and gasps] and we did this with Ron, but we didn't do it with Roger. Um the leadership of the board at the time said, "Okay, here's the market. We're going to

120put it here's the market. We're going to put them here and make them earn it and then we'll raise as we go, right? And we never did that. >> Um, we even did that with Roger. I wasn't the president at the time cuz I wouldn't have done it. And what we did when we brought when we brought Williams and company on is we brought Roger up significantly so that he would always be one of the top five in Ottawa and Kent County superintendent because we believed he had the skill set, everything that he did, who we were. And I think we need to continue that with the next superintendent because the market is tight. There aren't a lot of candidates and if we want to keep this next superintendent and they're the one we want,

121we need to be as fair with them as possible. So they're going to earn their buck on day one. And if they don't, then we terminate. But I think we need to be as fair as in everyone's mind. I just want you to think about that. And >> so you're saying not trying to offer the lowest salary possible. >> Correct. Don't put them at step one when we really should put them >> step one out of step 10, you should be at step five. >> Right. >> Mhm. >> Right. We we cuz we also have >> because you never catch up cuz if you're going to do a percentage every year, then you're always behind. >> Right. Ron was always behind. >> Okay. and he kept and okay negotiations get tight because the budget sucks,

122right? So he would say, "Oh, I don't want to take it now because I don't want this impropriy or special treatment for the superintendent." >> So if we set it up from the beginning to work, >> it'll automatically work on its own going forward. I just want to give everyone the thought of that when you reflect on this as to what what it needs to be and how we negotiate that. Does that make sense? >> Yeah%. >> We need to be fair to right our employee. >> I think part of the discussion on that is it's easy to say we want to be fair to because if this is an internal candidate, this is somebody who knows. >> Yeah. >> I mean, they're not starting from scratch either, right? So, >> they're just not. >>

123Yep. >> All right. Okay. So, Mark, the one to do for the board is give us an updated schedule timeline. schedule and then I will work. Usually I can get a turnaround to get the survey that offers >> QR code and all that and I'll write a press release once I get that to send out on whatever through email and through social media. >> I would think I could have it by Friday set ready to go send out. It may be Monday morning, but Okay. Usually they've got it all loaded. They just have to change it to y ready to go. >> Jill can get it up on the website pretty quick. >> Good. >> All right. So on the timeline, >> would you like me to email that timeline to each individual or just

124give it to Holly and let her handle? >> Email to each us. Yeah. >> Go ahead. Get it out to us. Yeah. I send everybody's email to me. I think we're missing the date. >> Great. >> Okay. >> So, I I'll send the email to all of you. I'll also send the timeline to Holly so we can make sure that it gets posted the proper spots. >> Perfect. >> And the posting. >> All right. Great. >> Great. >> And the survey press release. >> What else do we need to accomplish tonight? >> Adjourn the meeting. [laughter] >> Anything else from you, Mark, that you need to accomplish tonight? >> No. >> All right. Other than you have to ask for public comment. >> Yeah, exactly. Right. So, >> got anything to say? Scott, >> Mr.

125Merkel, another public comment. All right, fair enough. The next board meeting uh uh of the Granville Board of Education will be Monday, February the 16th, 2026 at 7 p.m. at the Granville Administration Building. We are adjourned. Thank you.