001all rise. We pledge. >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Any roll call? >> You bet. Wonder Jen >> here. Vanette >> here. Ste >> here. >> All present. >> Thank you. Please notice courtesy of members of the audience. Board of Education, please silence your cell phone. Public will only be able to speak during public comment if signed up. And if you have any so. All right. First item, approval of agenda. Can I get a motion to move? >> All those in favor? >> Yes. >> Opposed? Motion passes. Second, uh, consent action agenda. Can I get a motion? >> So moved. >> All those in favor? >> Yes.
002Opposed? >> Motion passes. Number three, the ELLL presentation. >> Yes. Uh, so very excited to have uh Megan and Darcy with us. Uh they're going to be presenting to our English language development program. >> I just wonder if they were present there. >> Hi. Um so two and a half decades ago I started right here in this building right below um I got the opportunity to start this program. I got a call from Pat Milbourne and she said hey would you be interested in starting this ESL program here in Granville and I said yes I would. And I still feel the same passion about it today. So we would like to tell you a little bit about our program at the high school specifically. >> So this is Darcy Sheiley. I'm Megan Kan. >> Um
003do you want to talk about >> Yeah. So, these are some of our common languages at the high school and it just talks about um our program and that we would like to show you um how our students learn at the high school and that we work with several students from all around the world. Our top language is Kenya Wanda and then Dari and Tigrina. Typically at the high school we range around 75 ESL students a year. This year is a little bit of an anomaly. Um we are currently at 100. I know that says 99, but on Friday we got another student. Um so we're up to 100 now. And there are two of us that are endorsed ESL teachers at the high school. And then we have two um PAR educators with us.
004And so between the four of us, we assist these hundred students and help them connect with the curriculum and help support them throughout their day. Um, we have about 30 different languages at the high school alone and even more throughout the district. Um, and our program is funded with title funding and section funding, so federal and state funding. Right now we have a 100% graduation rate and we're very proud of that. >> I can go ahead. >> Okay. >> All right. So the importance of our work when we're thinking about what we're doing um we're trying to remove barriers for our students so that they can access the curriculum. We want to make sure that everything that every student in a classroom is learning is accessible for our students as well. taking the language piece
005out of it and making sure they're learning the chemistry, they're learning the algebra, too. Um, so that it's right there and available for them. We want to make sure we keep our graduation rate at 100%. So, that accessibility is most important to us. Um, also looking to improve our test scores from our WEDA test, that is our state required test for ESL to the PSAT to the SAT and everything in between. Um, we want to make sure we keep our scores moving upwards and also respecting the culture at the high school. Um, making sure that everybody is feeling welcome, everybody's feeling represented, and then in addition, making those connections between our students, making them feel welcome at the high school, and making their families feel part of the community and welcome. All right. Our role
006is two-part, especially at the high school. Um, at the lower levels, the one of the main goals is language development for us at the high school because we have the end result of graduation. Ours is twofold. We're also trying like Darc said to make sure that kids can access the academic content. So, on the one hand, we are trying to develop language. Um so we're trying to work on their everyday communication language um in English which we call designated and then academic English um is our terms that we're using more in an academic context that go across various different um uh departments and um classes. So this is what we call our integrated both of these we work on developing um because our main goal is uh graduation and making sure that uh that's that
007the academic access is is there. Um we kind of have to do a lot of integrating language development into what we do in the the daily basis in the classroom too. Um, so with our language development, we're co-eing classes. So Darcy and I both co-e different sections. I co-e a world history and geometry. Um, and uh, what did I say? World history, geometry, uh, biology and an English class, freshman English. And then Darcy has this year e econ. >> Yep. Econ gov. And, uh, also junior level English, which is world literature. And then the past three years I've also co-taught physics. >> Yep. And so um that's how we are able to support the language development along with the access to the academic content in the classroom. Um our pair pros that we have working
008in conjunction with us. Um for example, I take most of our freshman and sophomores sophomore classes and my pair of pro, she works with me in the core content area classes that I'm not in. Um same with uh Darcy's parro. she tries to cover core content and then whatever ones she's not in our paraper is in as well. So really trying to make sure that for those really essential classes for graduation our students are getting the the academic support that they need. Um scaffolded instruction we do a lot of taking um the material and and again removing the barriers to where the student can access it adequately. So whether that's translating material into a different language, whe whether it's bringing the Lexile level down so that they can access it based on their reading levels,
009um we add a lot of teacher or a lot of um images and pictures and graphs. Uh we do a lot um with our content teachers to help them also see how to make modifications as well. Um this year, uh one unique thing that happened because we have so many students, um typically the biology class that I co-e, we actually had to break off and have a new section because we were experiencing so much overage in that one particular class. And so we were actually able to now I have a bio section predominantly of newcomers, so our lowest levels. Um, and it's been really cool to see uh the interaction and the grappling with the content that is hard to see. It's hard and hard to give them a chance to do when they're with
010such high um language levels in a co-op class. So, that's been really fun to see that happen. And as I'm since I'm um certified for biology, it's worked out perfectly to have that happen. And it's teaching the exact same essential standards and it's maintaining the rigor that we would expect in any class that biology is taught. >> Absolutely. >> Here are some examples of what that looks like in the classroom. So you can see um a lot of times if we have translations that are needed for our brand newcomers. This is a translation of a slide in um Persian. We have a Spanish translation and we have a Korean translation. And then over here we have tool kits that we often use, graphic organizers, things that uh take the language component out so our students
011don't have to memorize the word hexagon, docagon, that they can look at the picture and say, "Oh, yeah, that's the one with 10 sides." And they can fill in the correct vocabulary word. Um it's not giving them the answers, but it's empowering them beyond the language use to be able to show their skills in the content areas. Um, in addition, we're still trying to build all of the schools skills that are needed. A lot of times school in another country doesn't just it just doesn't look the same as it does here. So, we're working on those skill building things like um note takingaking, summarizing, essay writing in a way that fits in a US classroom in a way that prepares them for sitting down to take the SAT writing. uh component of the the test.
012Um we're also working on listening and speaking so that they have career readiness skills in whatever field they decide to go on to post high school. Um and looking at the technology that we're using in the classroom um the secondary along with Oakstown has gone towards formative. So we're teaching them to use those technological skills. we're using them to then further their skills and beyond. Um, and then I mentioned this earlier. Um, the Department of Ed requires that we take the WEDA test every year. And the WEDA access test happens in the spring and that's how we measure our students growth. And it tests them in the areas of reading, writing, listening, and speaking and overall comprehension. And those scores are tracked by the state and they're tracked by us so that we can provide
013the amount of support and the time of support that each student needs to further grow their skills. Yep. Our WEDA if we if you hear us refer to WEDA levels, there's WEDA levels 1 2 3 and four. Our three and four uh WEDA level students are typically pretty good on their own. They might need a couple accommodations or modifications here and there. Um, and then our ones and twos are our very beginning English learners and ones who are just emerging out. We collaborate with staff a lot. That is the main part of our day. Um, working with them with their lesson plans with the the building's essential skills and all of our work um that we've put into making a guaranteed and viable curriculum for all students. and we're taking that work and then making
014sure that each student has what they need, making sure that the curriculum is accessible to them. And so we work then also to train teachers on the best ways to make those accommodations themselves. And a lot of times the accommodations and the methods that we help train in are good for other students in the classroom too. students that need a 504 accommodation or special ed accommodation. So, we can kind of support beyond our little world as well. >> Yeah, I would say with that, um, like Darcy was saying, we will have maybe half of the class or less be our eel students in a co-t talk class and the rest are native English speakers. And I find, for example, in my geometry class, we have a, you know, kids struggle in math, no matter where
015they come from or how good they are at speaking English. And so the strategies that we use in our classroom really help all of them. So you you can walk into the classroom that I teach with Danielle Rose and you can see when we split off into groups, I have just as many native English speakers as she does in her group, you know. So, we're able to split by skill and um a lot of students benefit from it. Apart from just our EL kids, we look at the social emotional learning component as well. Um, a lot of students may come to us from a situation where they've experienced trauma in their home country. And so we try to provide a safe and trusted place for them to feel comfortable and build relationships with the students.
016Um, teaching them the cultural aspects of school, of the community, and and meeting their needs above and beyond what you would just walk into a school. Last year, we helped a young man that needed a pair of glasses. So, we set up an appointment for him and then worked him through the process of getting glasses. Things like that that we make sure that our students are cared for and get what they need. >> Um yeah, >> again with family connection. So a big part of um what people come to us for, other staff come to us for is help with translation and interpretation. So um we have become very familiar with a lot of technology that um we're able to use for both these things. Um a lot of times it's really hard to um
017communicate nuanced information with through chatgbt, right? And also that's not furba compliant. Um so we are able to offer ways to teachers that the is district approved that they can go ahead and communicate with parents because um it is so essential for someone to hear their teacher talking about this is the need or this is what the behavior that we're seeing. Um how can we best support your child? Um, and it's essential for the family members to be able to contact us and and be confident that if they call the high school attendance line because their child is sick, that their message that their child is sick is going to be understood even if it's recorded in Spanish. Um, powers school is not an easy thing to maneuver in a different language. So, that's also
018um something where we try to really make sure we're connected with families on that. Also communicating uh graduation requirements, final forms for athletics is also very complicated for our families. So a lot of times that looks like Darcy and I sitting down department. >> Yep. Mom or dad is on the phone and we're translating through documents to try and get it filled out so that kids can play sports. It's that accessibility piece across every aspect of being part of the school system. Not just the curriculum, but joining the soccer team or the swim team and being a part of the other things that our school offers. >> Yeah. And even just things like uh basic communications like um you know the buses got cancelled and so making sure that families can have that message quickly
019accessible to them in the language that they understand so that it's there's no question of um what's happening and why and is my child safe or not. >> Um I've had the opportunity to be um certified and work on um international transcript evaluation. So when students come to us with a transcript from another country, then we can make sure that per national requirements that we're awarding the credits that are um that they should be afforded. And it is a US um accredited organization. So it's not just a oh let's give them this credit. It is a very firm set of criteria that we're making sure we're following and that way they can have the credits transfer that they've already had and then we can work forward towards graduation from that point. >> Um, we help
020with college applications, getting lots of kids signed up for KCTC programs. That's really exciting to see them grow in their field from that, too. What career path do most of them take? Is there like predominantly one or the other? >> There's a wide variety. Last year we had a lot of kids that entered right into the university. Um, a lot of them took their skills from KCTC and um were the in the certified nursing program and then entered the job field um working in a nursing home, different areas like that. >> We actually had a pretty high number of kids move on to college last year. which was really cool. >> Yeah. >> Um student story. So I have a story to share about um one of our male students who is now a junior.
021Um when he first came to us as a freshman um he was what we call a sife student. A student with limited and interrupted formal education. So um the country where he was from where he lived in that particular location school was school access was limited. And so he came to us, his reading ability, his literacy level in Spanish was probably that of a kindergartener along with his math skills. Um maybe I would say maybe second grade reading. Um and we took him in one year. Um by the end of sophomore year, he was at 10th grade level math. Um from going through and counting on his fingers to add 3 + 4, he was able to do geometry level math and algebra. um and his science reading um in particular in Spanish went up
022to a 10th grade level. He was able to read articles on um meiosis and mitosis and um he was able to take the concepts and work with them. Um, so we are very proud of students like him who come in where uh we have a huge educational deficit and they just work so hard and we're able to have such a great team of people um that we can really give them everything they need to be successful and they take it and they run. Um so we have a lot of students on that end of the spectrum. And then I have a story about a young lady who was with us for about two and a half years before she graduated. And in that time she went from a newcomer proficiency level in English to um
023proficient. She was a National Honors Society student, a Hispanic National Honor Society student, and was awarded um several AP credits based on her AP test scores along with awarded several scholarships. She's gone on to university and she's doing all kinds of great things there in leadership, studying business. >> Yeah. So there's a range of what we have and several languages that we work with on a daily basis. >> You guys have any comments or questions for us? >> So I remember when you were downstairs. >> Yes. >> Um Pat and I don't know if it was when I was on the board or part of pack base, but anyway, we went downstairs and I think at the time he had 20ome students. >> Yeah. Um this is very interesting just when it comes to advanced
024learning how they come to you h how many are more advanced in their studies which makes it you know adapting to English but they're already on a fast path on an educational perspective is there >> it really depends on the year >> it does >> we we see the fluctuation There are some years where we have a bunch of students that come with well-developed transcripts that we can very easily fit into a smooth path towards graduation and then the next year we might end up with a big handful of students that have had interrupted schooling. Um, it kind of depends what's happening in the world and where people are coming from and what's happening in their home countries to determine what they bring to us. >> Yeah. And even in in one cohort, you know,
025we have this year we have students who are in a geometry class but have very basic algebra. And so we're doing a lot of algebra remediation, but we also have students who just arrived who they are just they're way beyond where we are in algebra. And so a lot of it is just putting it in English, like they're just learning the English terms for it and making sure that they understand going forward. So it really just depends. Is it a self-study then for them to move on to maybe geometry or calc? So if they're doing that and they're already so they they're they're getting their feet wet with regard to English and the terms do you sort of give them selfstudy material to be able to move into other math categories? >> We follow the
026the ghs graduation requirements very tightly. So, if they don't come to us with a credit for algebra 1, then we start with algebra 1. There are ways that we can test out of things. If we know they've had it, but just don't have that piece of paper transcript, we can test out of things just as any student that might be coming to us from a different situation could test out. We follow the test out procedures that the high school has in place. So, we can move through those steps, too. Um, I would say the majority of the time that we do that, we get someone who is 17 and they're starting and they don't have enough credits to graduate if they stayed on a normal track. >> So, in that case, we put them on
027Odyssey Wear and we try to fast track their um, credit accumulation. >> Got it. >> Yeah. >> Okay, great. Thanks. >> You see you have um like levels one through four, your three and three and fours are independent, more independent. your ones and twos are maybe a little bit more emerging. Um, what would you say your split is right now? Do you think you do you think you have like a 5050 split between your your emerging and your >> I think 5050. Okay. >> Yeah. State has an exit criteria of 4.8 >> and then we have to monitor them for four years after that. So, but I believe it's pretty pretty split right now. One thing that I will note with our with our ones and twos this year, it's probably the lowest ones that
028we've had. Um I have two girls um who are not literate in either of their languages. And so they're like in our biology class, they are learning how to read and write English as they're learning biology. >> Yeah. >> What would help you? Like what what can we do to help you? Is there translation devices that would be helpful? Uh is there some technology that's up and coming that might be helpful for YouTube? We just moved to a new translation service. We're still in a learning curve with it. Um so we'll see how this works out for us after this year. Um time is our biggest our biggest thing. um people. >> Yeah, >> we're the wonderful thing about GHS is there are so many students who are willing to help. Um we have uh
029Spanish speakers who are coming during the Wednesday seminar hour and are doing um algebra remediation in Spanish with our Spanish speakers just to make sure that they're fully comprehending the concepts. And then actually starting this week, we have National Honor Society students who are volunt I mean >> getting service hours and volunteering to um just do basic literacy skills with our lowest students during that same time. Um >> I think the culture at GHS just allows us to create partnerships across so many different areas. >> Yeah, it really does. You know, I had Darcy service my son that we adopted from Haiti and she did an outstanding job. And at that time, I think Darcy, you were the only person in the person. Yes. >> Spread thin. Unbelievable. And did >> and we were also
030busting in Jennison and at that time too. >> That's right. So to deal with that, but then I still hear your numbers even at the high school of having now 100 students um being addressed by basically four personnel trying to scatter throughout. So I know that in case you guys don't know, Megan's my daughter, I'm her mom, but we've talked before about how um there are other personnel in the district that um could become T-Sol. Is that correct? Am I saying that right? It would be ELLL >> ELLL certified. That might help because my my feeling has been for a long time, why is this not under our MTSS system? >> To me, it would just be a you know, by using more of the personnel that could be endorsed as ENL ELLL that we
031could then put this whole program and give you more support through the MTSS system. What do you think about that? I think that it's incredible when our teachers go back and get their ESL endorsement. We have a few that are currently in the process of that. Actually, both of our PAR educators are going back to school right now to get their teaching degrees and their ESL endorsements. So, I'm glad that the passion is spreading. Um, but we also have other teachers at the high school that are ESL endorsed. So, we're using their skill set to assist um and work with students in their classrooms to we have a a the geometry teacher is just finishing getting ready to take her test and then she'll be ESL endorsed. So, we're encouraging more and more people if
032you're interested in going back to school, grab that endorsement and join us. >> Yeah. with that. You know, obviously we're in limited budget times and >> um there's so many ways like for example like Darcy and I came up with the idea of what if I took my own bio section because instead of paying overage on one biology classroom that's jammed full with 38 kids, why don't I take 10 out and we can and we can you we don't have to pay that teacher overage. Um, so I think with along with solutions like that, you know, the more people that can get ESL endorsed, um, the more we can spread out our threes and fours and allow them to be more dispersed among among the, um, native speaking population so that we can focus more
033on our ones and our twos. Um, and actually there are several people within the district who already have the endorsement. They just haven't taken the certifying test. Um and so whether that would be a um you know a district incentive of like hey we would love to pay for your test for you so that we can make we can start utilizing you as a service hour for these kids. um because with MDE um we are slowly on a track toward um specific required amounts of service minutes for each child both in direct ELD uh English language development and then also in academic support. Um, and so our goal is trying to make sure, and really at the high school, I think we've met that goal of making sure every single one of our EL students
034has the hour or 4 hours that they are required to have. Um, but we know that's a lot harder at the um, middle school, elementary, Oakstown level. Um, and so an a more affordable solution um could be helping people who have their ENL ESL endorsements take the test and or encouraging people who would like to get their MA plus30 or whatever to do that in ESL and take that endorsement so that it's an affordable um sustainable way for the district to keep moving forward to meeting those MDE requirements as they come out. To piggy back off of Joe, um I had been with a friend who um works um at uh middle school and she had talked about um you did they have an iPad situation where they had two young girls that one was
035speaking Chinese and one was speaking like Spanish perhaps. I'm not really sure. But they were able to communicate with each other using this iPad techn which was super cool. I was >> she said it just made it so much easier for them to find a friend as well which becomes very isolating way. So that was really cool. And then you know Cyprien um oftentimes has to call in um a translator. >> So you can either have them through the phone. We used to have those when I would teach where you would call in a phone translator. Is that what you utilize or do you you said you're >> we have in the past years that service um has ended uh at the end of last year and and then this iPad service is where we're
036moving to. So we're not quite sure about our calling options right now. Um but we're working through two different um >> businesses translation services right now. One's called ILA and that is the iPad service. And then another one is called Talking Points and that allows um a classroom teacher, a building, um an administrator to push out a document and have it translated into any language. Um there's some learning curve that goes along with that, how people word their their document to make sure that the literal translation happens. But >> yeah, one of the common um experiences we have with translations is um for example, we had the senior letter for senior night at the end of last year get we put it through Google translate just to see and we had our parapro who is
037Spanish speaking bilingual. We said Kate, can you read this and tell us how the translation is? She goes, "This is all about talking about elderly people because it had taken the senior all night party into the elderly all night party." >> And so there's a lot of, you know, that that can happen. Um, and I mean, some services just are going to do that no matter how well you coach them and we've had to sift through them and through trial and error. Um but yeah, yeah, I think the district is still in the process of really finding those really perfect ways that we are guaranteed to be FURPA compliant and to um have great translations. >> So, a couple questions. Um so, you mentioned the the one, two, three, four levels, right? And I and
038maybe I misunderstood, but I assume that's part of that is what their fluency is, but also to what their academic understanding is or or is it is a one, two, three strictly? >> It's a proficiency level. The the proficiency test tests in reading, writing, speaking, and listening. And the test um like the reading passages are academic type passages. The writing prompt is an academic type prompt, but it's in a way where if you were able to read the story and comprehend it, it wouldn't have mattered if you didn't have an educational background. You should still be able to answer the questions if you're proficient. >> So, it's strictly on the language >> as much as possible. >> What are your most common languages right now? >> Spanish for sure. >> Um, Kenya Rwanda, I think,
039is probably our second. >> Yep. Swahili is growing. >> Um yeah, we I I recently our numbers from Afghanistan have gone up. So um Dar Persian >> Well certainly thank you for what you guys are doing. Um it's you know you go through the things you guys are talking about right more than just teaching right I mean that's the easy part I think sometimes for you guys right um you know the the helping them navigate the simple the things we take for granted right in the schools whether it be power you know power school whether it be filling out the forms for athletics whatever it may be I mean that's that's huge in helping not just the students but the families feel a part of that grand educational community so really appreciate appciate that. Um,
040and also too, what a testament to you and your your teams. Um, because maybe you did, but you probably didn't go to school to do exactly this. And then your abilities to not just do this. Maybe you did. >> I did. But also be a I don't say jack all trades, but you know, be able to teach biology, be able to teach, be able to teach econ. I mean, >> I say I don't how many other teachers can do that, right? I know you fill in where you can and you do what you can as a teacher, right? But I mean these guys to me it just seems that you're going the extra mile. >> I do feel like I could graduate again. >> Yeah. >> I love my job >> and 27 years in
041I still have an incredible passion for it. I love to get up and go to ghs every morning. >> Every morning. >> It's just it is it's impressive like for for these kids and and for what you all do because I mean I look at my daughter. I mean she took eight years of Spanish basically, right? and now she never had to learn math and Spanish, right? And that's what, you know, these kids are having to do >> right from the get-go, right? They're having to learn it in a brand new language. Yes. So, what you guys are able to do uh with these students is just really fantastic. So, >> thank you. >> Yeah. because I I see in our very special obviously you can hear that just all the things that go into
042uh figuring out what makes a kid tick and doing everything they can to make sure they're successful. I mean 100% graduation is just amazing. >> But it's there's so many stories I'm sure that that you know we if we could hear all them it would just I mean it would be just incredible. But they're two special teachers and two special people. So, thank you very much. >> Thanks for your time. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> All right. So, next on the agenda, we have the superintendent evaluation tool training. Uh you may recall there were some changes to uh this tool and to the process. um through the legislature and uh I'll turn things over to John and he get us uh set up. All right, Mark, can you hear us? Okay, >> I can
043I can hear you really well. Thank you. >> All right, we're just going to adjust the volume that's in the back of the room here real quick and I'm going to try to pull Somehow someway your window disappeared, Mark, on my computer. >> Uhoh. >> That might be a good thing. >> I've seen you before, Mark. It's not >> very kind of you. That's quite a presentation you just had. >> Yeah, >> John, you said you were moving it to a different screen. >> So, when I first got started, I had it plugged in and that's where I was getting all the feedback for some reason. And so, um, now I have it pulled into that space. >> Yeah. Yeah. Let me close it. >> You think where it says doc docs at the top?
044Is that what you're looking for? >> Oh joint. You can't see it. Issues with your computer only. This is definitely this window. There's no window, >> right? Um, we're gonna have to close Zoom here a second and try this again. >> Well, just mine, right? >> Yep. Just yours. I was just right here. All right, Mark, can you hear me still? >> I can hear you really well. >> Okay, perfect. So, we're going to get the volume adjusted as you get rolling here, but the uh the screen is yours. >> Okay. Well, thank you very very much. Uh it's nice to be with you this evening even though uh it's by Zoom and not in person. So I'm um zooming in today from the north side of Holland and uh I live uh across the
045street from Lake Matawa. Um and I think it's raining outside right now if I'm not mistaken which is kind of nice. Um anyway um I'm a retired K12 and ISD superintendent. I was superintendent at Fenville and at the Algen Area Educational Service Agency, retired in 2016. I've had the privilege of um doing some consulting since my retirement. I've done a couple interim positions as well. And one of the things I like best about attending board meetings is hearing about programs like the one that you just had because u that's why I like this work staying connected to it and u with MASB uh I've been doing superintendent searches lately. We've had quite a few uh probably more coming in the after the first year I'm sure. Uh I facilitate some classes, do the superintendent training,
046evaluation training and facilitate superintendent evaluations as well. I also work a little bit at Hope College and I work for a little HR firm out of Okamus, too. So I try to stay busy. I don't know uh what I would do in retirement if I wasn't doing a few things. So um that's enough about me. Um, so anyway, I want to say to you before we get started here, uh, to the board of education and administrative staff that are there, thank you so much for the work that you do. Uh, it's amazing to me that so many of you step up and volunteer for these roles like being on the board of education and um, you know, schools just can't can't exist without you. and to superintendents like Roger and others uh administrators who stay
047in there through all the fights and the turmoil and the legislative issues and not knowing you're going to have a budget uh changing evaluation systems, staffing challenges. Uh kudos to you too. So again, thanks thanks for the work that you do. Um, if I could, I just like to go around the room and just have you tell me your role on the board and how many years you've been on the board of education. So, is is Amy Campbell in the room? >> I am. >> Okay. >> Uh, I'm Amy Campbell. Um, I'm probably the newest member of the board. It's been about five, six months maybe. Um, I was appointed um to the board after somewhat one of our current board members had to leave because they moved. >> Okay, thank you for that. Uh,
048Brent Dhan, >> hello. Can you Is it working? All right. I've been on the board for five years and vice president Well, of the board right now, Jason is the president. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh Amy Gardin. >> Hi there. Amy Gardin. I came on the same time as Brent, so I've been on five years. I am the current secretary and so I get to sit next to Roger all the time, which is awesome. >> All right. Thank you. Uh Jason Hayabower. Hey, bore. Am I saying that right? >> Yeah, that's fine. Whatever. It gets butchered all the time. Come on. You're on Holland. You should know how to say this. >> I know it. I know. >> I'm a Bohemian transplant. >> Yeah. Uh we can't all be perfect, I guess. Um so, yeah.
049So, Jason Hibour been on the uh board for about seven years and am currently the president. >> Thank you. Uh Joel Stefus. >> Well, you got that name right. That's a >> All right. >> U just trustee been on the board for three years. >> Thank you. >> And uh Sally Van. >> Hi. I've been on the board just shy of a year and I am currently the board treasurer. >> Okay. Thank you. And Robert Wonderjam. Hi Mark. Um Bob Wonderjim. I've been on the board 24 plus years. Uh held every position. Currently trustee. >> Okay. Thank you. Um and kudos to must be to uh Holly for making sure all your names were in the board profile on MASB correctly. uh because that's not the case in every district that you go to. Uh
050so good deal for that. So I'm going to just jump in. Uh it sounds like most of you have been through a superintendent evaluation um one one time or another. And uh one of you might have been through 24 of them. I'm not quite sure. But uh with that, I'm gonna go ahead and share the screen and get started. It would be really helpful to me if you asked questions during the presentation and engaged a little bit here. Um I know that might be hard with passing the microphone back and forth. I assume I haven't checked, but there's probably a chat function too um where you can put things in. And can everybody see the evaluation PowerPoint now? >> Yep. >> Okay. So, I'll go ahead and get started. Um, so, as you know, um,
051the state um, changed the requirements for superintendent evaluation. And let's see, I'm trying to see I I lost my window where I can see you all. Can you still see the whole presentation or is that cut it off? >> Yes. >> Yep, we can see it. >> Okay. Um so um with the changes that there are some substantial changes in here and then there's a a lot of valuation instrument itself that has not really been changed very much but they did require that boards go through an updated training. Um so as far as evaluation goes um many people who are going through for the first time are nervous about going through um and evaluating a superintendent. Haven't done it before. Might not really be sure what the role of the superintendent is. and um they
052are wondering how someone without a educational background can effectively evaluate someone who has um got years and years and years of training. Um so what we want to do in this training today is >> Hey Mark, can I pause just a second? Um, if you can expand your window, we're seeing about 2third of the slide. >> Okay. You know, and I think I pulled up not the PowerPoint. >> Yeah, you've got the PDF. >> PDF. Yep. >> So, let me see if I can rectify that. I apologize. >> That's okay. I might have to go to another file just to get it real quick. >> Right. No, I know. >> Yeah, Mark, if you can't get that, they're looking at it. I got the the copy right in front of them so they can follow
053along just as just fine that way. If you want to go go forward with just the PDF. >> Okay. All right, we'll expand it. Hopefully, you can see it now. Um, so what we want to do here is just clarify some things and make sure everybody feels comfortable with using the instrument. We want to have a focus on student achievement in your district uh through the process because that certainly is the number one job of your superintendent. Making sure that kids are able to and are able to uh learn to their fullest potential. You want to make sure that you're ex executing your duties of the board of education because this is a very serious um thing evaluating your superintendent and you want to limit the risk of lawsuit to the district. And that's that
054last item right there is really really important. Um, I mentioned me being an interim superintendent and I went to a district who had a district that had uh evaluated their superintendent three years in a row as highly effective. And the fourth year they basically fired her. Um and they because of the previous evaluations they didn't have any grounds and they wound up paying uh 2 and 1/2 years of salary on that superintendent's way out the door you know several hundred,000. So making sure that there's fidelity in this work is very very important. Another thing I want to mention in this process, I think one of the reasons the state made the change um is that the way that the past evaluations system was used, 99% of teachers were rated either effective or highly effective. 99%
055of administrators were rated effective or highly effective. So there was maybe a thought besides some other things and pressure from the union and changing and that kind of thing that maybe the evaluation instrument um wasn't doing exactly what it was designed to do. Uh a good evaluation process should be all about growth and not about gotcha. you shouldn't get to the actual evaluation meeting and close session um where there are questions. It should be pretty straightforward at that point or the questions maybe better should be minimal. Um but everybody should know especially the superintendent where uh he stands in the process. Um performance expectations help clarify superintendent's role and um the priorities. Um a superintendent evaluation process should provide feedback and your superintendent like other superintendent values cherishes that feedback and it's important because it
056links the work to the district's goals. Uh, I'm assuming you have a strategic plan your district. Is that correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, um, you know, the strategic plan is certainly the line share of the work of the superintendent making sure that things are getting done and that kind of thing. and those performance expectations can can link the work of the superintendent to that plan. So what we want to do today is understand the requirements of the evaluation process. Um talk a little bit about the indicators of superintendent job performance where some of the changes have been made that sort of thing. Uh we'll talk a little bit about artifacts and evidence, but not a whole lot because that's something that really hasn't changed from the past um in past evaluation um format. We
057want to talk a little bit about a plan for a rational cycle and check points. But again, that's another area that hasn't changed. So I'm going to probably move through those areas that haven't changed real quick today. uh unless you've uh stopped me and want me to slow down a bit. Uh we want to make sure you know how to use the instrument to rate performance of the superintendent. Uh and we want to give you a little bit of practice which is the greater reliability which is requirement of the law. So an important concept is that the board is a whole. The board speaks with one voice. uh individual members don't individually uh evaluate the superintendent except for the purpose of reaching consensus providing input for reaching consensus and the board only evaluates one employee.
058Only one person works for the board of education. uh it's a requirement that you use a researchbased tool in the process which an MASB instrument is and you have to report that on your website uh you have to link the research uh on your website which you which you've certainly done. Um and then you have to report the results of the evaluation to the state on the register of educational personnel. Same way you provide you report your teachers your and your administrators and again you're required to have training on this process and greater liability. So what is the law in this regard? Well, an annual evaluation, we'll talk about an exception to that in a little bit, but basically is to have an annual evaluation. Here's a change. You've gone from three rating, four rating
059categories to three. So, previously we had highly effective, effective, minimally effective, and ineffective. Now we have effective, developing or needing support. So we only have the three categories. You are now required to hold a midyear progress report view review each year the superintendent's evaluated. Okay, we'll be talking about um that a little bit later on here as well, but that's that's something new. So those ratings uh going from four to three and the midyear product support are certainly major changes in this process. Okay. Another change. So the composition of the tool uh says that states that 20% has to be has to be uh determined by student growth and assessment data. um or student learning objectives. We can talk about that a little bit later on as well. In the previous evaluation instrument, it was
06040%. Okay. Um I think one of the reasons this has reduced from 40 to 20 is because I think the previous um instrument was hard to get down to uh the individual teacher in the individual classroom as far as growth data. And there tend to be uh you know averaging which probably still isn't still is in in the in the uh way that a lot of districts do it. I'm not sure about yours but where part of that assessment data or or growth data um toward an individual teacher may have come from actually the whole building. Um 65% is now on the evaluation instrument. The rubric if you rubrics in there if you will. Previously that was at 50%. So that's been increased. Professional practice portion has been increased to 65%. And 15% is progress
061on goals goals that are divide deter defined by the district and the superintendent. So, you determine what goals, what expectations are going to be used for your superintendent's evaluations. That doesn't necessarily mean it's all the it has to be all the district goals. Um, but it could be specific portions of one or two of the goals or it could be other related related performance expectations that you have. So student growth and assessment um now is um is been broadened. Um it's not necessarily having to be 50% on state assessment anymore. Okay. State assessment is certainly something that can and will and maybe should be used, but this is decided locally. What is going to be um contribute to the student growth um rating for a building, for a teacher, for your superintendent. And I think
062it's really important that this is a conversation that takes place on the front end of the evaluation cycle. Um, I facilitated a few evaluations where this was never clear at the start of the evaluation cycle and when it came down to the evaluation meeting, um, the board didn't know what data was going to be used ahead of time and the superintendent um, just used data that was probably friendly to his cause in those situations. So it's kind of important uh just like your teachers know what data is going to be used uh for their evaluations that your superintendent knows as well. And there last bullet there is that piece about uh aggregating for building teacher level data up to uh you know the principles and then eventually up to the superintendent. So everybody is, you
063know, kind of being evaluated on that same assessment data. Am I going too fast? >> Nope. >> Okay. Please uh please let me know. So a word about student growth. Um so student growth is a measurement between two points in time. It's this year's seventh graders and last year's sixth graders. So, it's a cohort of kids. Um, and it's different from proficiency. Proficiency is more a statement about h how the kids are doing right now. It's kind of a snapshot in time. Uh whereas growth is at progress over a period of time and typically it's a year. Student learning objectives are something that can be used um in the evaluation process as well as part of the assessment data. Um you could have a team of teachers, say a fifth grade team of teachers approach
064their principal and say, "Here is something that we really want to work on this year at our team level. um and we'd like to be have this be a part of our evaluation process. So that is something that conceivably could be agreed to. Um the key elements would be you know I think is it important is it going to affect student achievement? Do you have data to show uh a baseline of where the students are and what you hope to accomplish? And again, that would require administrative approval for that. Um, this is kind of typical of um it's almost like what we've done in special education for quite a long time where we had individual learning objectives for students. This would be more on a uh classroom level or or a building level. So midyear
065progress report um so this is requirement now uh and this is why it's so important to have performance expectations up front because in the middle of the year uh you have the ability to go into close session and talk to the superintendent uh about how he is doing in meeting those performance expectations. So the midyear progress report has to include um goals for the remainder of the calendar year. Okay, that would be those performance expectations for the remainder of the calendar year. Um they should always be not uh they shouldn't usually be just handed to the superintendent. This is what we want you to work on, but rather built in consultation with the superintendent. Um, and training is a part of that. If there are specific goals or specific trainings that the superintendent uh is
066going to need to be able to accomp accomplish those um expectations, uh it's essential that that's identified on that mid-year progress report. So an improvement plan is provided that includes these goals and training and is designed to assist in performing performing excuse me improving performance. Um and I'm going to stop here for just a second and uh see if I can find another document. I think you've got it probably in front of you too. Are you seeing the midyear progress report? >> Yep. >> Okay. So, this is something that MASB put together. Uh doesn't mean you have to use this this one, but I think it's pretty handy. And again, it um is something that you're going to have uh halfway through the year with your superintendent roughly. And uh it starts out on the
067first page where just listening listing the goals or the priority or the performance expectations that you have for the superintendent. And then there's some notes on there that would be added regarding the progress that's being made to those um toward those performance expectations. Pretty straightforward. And if I get my mouse to jump from the page. Um, and then as a continuation of that, you would list out the performance expectations or the goals for the remainder of the year. Now, there's nothing that says that those performance expectations have to change at the midpoint of the year. So, that's, you know, again, it's just something to consider. um suggestions for artifacts in that process that might be used to um demonstrate that the performance expectations been made. And there's that additional training piece there if uh if
068it's required, if it's requested. So that's outlined on there. That additional training is something that's really really important. Uh, one time in my evaluation process, my board wanted me to become more knowledgeable on fiscal matters and that self- admittedly was not my strong point and um, so we put together a plan based on that. But one of them things that they said is we want you to join MSBO and go to the conferences and go to the meetings and just soak up everything you can and report back to us. So that was very very helpful and I could not have succeeded in that expectation um with without that support. U a couple words about this mid the midyear progress report too. It doesn't mean that you know that you have to wait till mid year.
069You can have quarterly progress reports if you want to. And that's the way the ISD board was with me. We went into close session uh four times a year for evaluation purposes. And uh the three times were would review my goals and the progress towards the goals and then the fourth one was to do the formal evaluation. And I found that process really valuable. Any questions on the midyear progress report? >> I'm going to keep moving along here. >> Yeah, Mark, he's going to grab the microphone here a sec. Roger has a question. >> Okay. >> Can you hear me, Mark? >> I can. >> Okay. Uh so our goal development uh is done and then what we've done in the past the midyear piece we touch base how's it going talk about the goals
070where the goals are at and so on. So um the uh goals are written in smart goal format. >> So the measurement is already there. Um, and we at least I know I found that's that's very helpful. Um, because then you know everybody knows what that measurement is at the end that you're looking at and halfway in we can talk about where that's at and where we might need to go. >> I sounds to me like that's perfect. You're you're ahead of the curve on that one for sure. So, I I think that sounds like a sounds like a great process. So, kind of a word about goals for superintendent performance expectations. We typically would recommend not more than a couple. Um, and if you have more and it's working, um, that's fine. But the,
071um, the the rubric itself, the the, um, evaluation instrument has in it built-in goals. If your superintendent is um not evaluated as effective in a particular area and is developing um he's going to have a goal built in there automatically to get into that um that effective range. So we don't want to pile a whole bunch more on that yet. you need to have performance expectations uh as per the law here. So all evaluators have to have a raider reliability training um and it has to give you some descriptors um evaluation criteria if you will that will help you arrive at that rating. um give you some clear expectations and we'll have a couple calibration exercises. We're moving along in here uh and going through this. A new change in the law is you can
072designate a superintendent as unevaluated. Okay, so that is uh that is new this year. And some of the ways that would trigger an an unevaluated rating would be superintendent who worked in the district less than 60 days. There's now an appeal process in um the evaluation um that if a superintendent or any teacher or principal is not satisfied with their evaluation's results, they have a right to appeal it. So if the results of the evaluation were vacated through the appeal process, you could designate that superintendent as unevaluated. And if there were unexenuated circum there were extenduating circumstances. Um if you had god forbid some kind of a disaster in your district that took the superintendent away from the the work you know being evaluated. You know you could say um that the you know we're
073going to we're going to not evaluate the superintendent this year. If the superintendent is unevaluated, um you use the rating from the year before. If these criteria are met, one, the superintendent was the superintendent in the previous year with that evaluation. And two, if they're in the same school district. So, it wouldn't apply to a superintendent who who comes to your district from a different district. If that superintendent was effective the year before, uh, but you were unevaluated this year, you could not use that. You would not use that rating. So legal requirements, the superintendent is rated effective or highly effective on three consecutive annual evaluations. Again, that highly effective is going away, but we're going we're going uh in previous years on the current evaluation system. Um you can evaluate your superintendent every other
074year. You would report an effective rating to the registry of educational personnel. If the evaluation slips below the evaluation, then must be conducted annually. If it goes below effective, it must be conducted annually. And there's nothing to say that the board can't evaluate the superintendent annually. Um anyway, if a superintendent is rated as developing or needing support, simply you must put an improvement plan in place. And um if that is the case, it's really really important that um first of all, I think that you would want to consult an attorney. And secondly, you'd want to really spend time spelling out the expectations at that point. Legal requirements of contract now has have that appeal language in there. So if an administrator is not satisfied with results evaluation, they can appeal it. Um and also as
075you know this isn't new. This open meetings act um applies to the superintendent's evaluation. It can be done in close session. The key word there is at the superintendent's request. Okay. If the superintendent does not request close session, then the evaluation has to be done in public. And the final evaluation is subject to FOYA. So really anybody in the community who goes through the trouble of submitting a Freedom of Information Act uh can get can get that evaluation. This link that you see on the bottom takes care of all these posting requirements. I said like that research base qualifications the people have put together that sort of thing. So, I'm sure you have this under in your transparency report. Okay. Any questions so far? >> Nope, they're good. >> All right, we're going to keep
076moving along then. So, a little bit of research into the evaluation instrument. Um there were when this when the evaluation was created, the MASB evaluation instrument, they did a lot of research um looking at best practices and evaluations of of educational professionals before putting this together. And this shows you that there were lots of contributions by leaders and by the key uh educational organizations out there. National School Board Association, the National Superintendent Association, Elementary School Principles, Secondary School Principles, and there was committees and public vetting and that sort of thing before was put in and built into this evaluation. And these these numbers are are kind of important and I'll I'll allude to them later when we're looking at the actual instrument. Um is are these standards education process. So um effective leaders are driven
077by the mission, vision and the core values and they enact them and they demonstrate them and they live them and people are aware of that. They act in a way that's ethical and professional. Um they are strive effective leaders strive towards equity. Um, and that's not equality, but strive toward equity so that everybody can learn in the way that they can learn best and are culturally responsive. Um, standard 10, school improvement, effective leaders, effective superintendent are agents of continuous improvement, always trying to get better, always working for the school district to get better. uh they have non-negotiables. Effective superintendents say we're going to have an effective curriculum. We are going to instruct using best practice methods and we're going to continually assess our students and adapt and they are these are non-negotiables. This is just
078the way it's going to be. By God, our kids are going to learn and here's how we're going to make sure they do. uh that committee community of care and support for learners. Uh you know goes beyond goes into the the uh uh you know counseling and other things that provide assistance for those the kids that need additional uh help. Um you know could be after school tutoring those kinds of things. It could be, you know, uh providing you working with organizations to provide backpack meals to go home and that kind of thing. There's it's a it's a very inclusive um standard that things that we're doing in support of students beyond the academics in the hope of raising academic success. Effective superintendants seek to raise the professional skills of all school personnel. Um they
079want everyone to get better at their craft and they support professional learning for teachers and staff so teachers can get together and share data and share best practices and share what's working in one classroom. uh that if if something's working in a particular fourth grade classroom and the other fourth grade teachers are struggling with it, they're making sure they have time to talk about that so teachers can learn from one another and other staff as well. Uh meaningful engagement of families and community communities self um explanatory and also operations and management. when I went through um leadership programs when I was a superintendent, one of the things that was resonated to me was if you can't manage a district, you can't lead the district. So if you don't have those support systems in place, those
080operation systems working at a high level like food service, custodial maintenance, bus driving, those sorts of things aren't welloiled machines. It's it's hard it's harder to make the academic kind of changes that you want to make in the district. um an organization called Mccra does research on the research the meta analysis and you can look at the extensive studies that they've done here and some of the findings that they've have are the length of superintendent tenure uh makes a difference as well as the leadership obviously that superintendent Um, effective superintendents are inclusive in when they seek to develop goals for the district. Um, working with the board of education and working with uh the key stakeholders, all relevant stakeholders in in determining what the priorities are going to be and what the goals are going
081to be the district. Uh board alignment is a key finding. We talked about uh curriculum instruction and assessment and it's essential that the board of education is lock step with superintendent on those things. It expects uh success, expects professionalism, expects um people to be aligned with the mission mission and the vision of the district and that they will embrace the best practices that are outlined. Um effective superintendents ensure that resources go to the district priorities. uh can you draw a line in the budget to the priorities of the district? Could someone look at your budget and say these things are obviously the priorities in the district? Um, can the can the board and the superintendent articulate? Um, why a need in the change in funding was made, why a sacred cow program maybe had to
082go away because we had to raise our third grade literacy levels. So, we're going to flip gears and we're going to look at any other questions right now or any questions at all about the research. >> Nope. They're collectively shaking their heads. >> Okay, thank you for that. Um so the performance categories have not changed in the evaluation instrument and they are the performance categories are still a set of rubrics which give you a more descriptive language um and I think do a nice job of articulating performance that's needed to reach a certain level to reach a certain rating. And that last but a little about providing a road map. That's kind of what I talked about before where um we don't want to have a whole bunch of goals outside of the evaluation instrument
083itself because this road map is really the work of the superintendent. In a lot of ways, it's a job description that's contained in the evaluation instrument. Um, previously there were four categories. We mentioned that before. Now there's only three. And you'll notice that they're in red. Red means that it's mandated by law. Okay, so mandated by law are the three categories. There used to be a whole bunch of other stuff in the uh standards that were mandated by law in the instrument itself, but that uh is no longer the case. A lot of that has been taken out. So these are the standards. So if you remember those numbers before uh that we showed you when I showed you the standards, these are the ones that it refers back to. Okay. Um and then you
084can see that there's a progressive nature to the language. Okay. Needing support is, you know, it's very minimal. It's not desired. So, uh, as we're looking for policy involvement, makes decisions without any regard to adopted policy. Well, that's certainly not good. We need some support in that area. Um, so here's another one. The developing provides correspondence from policy provider with recommendations for adoption. That's pretty typical. Um, but is actively involved in development, recommendation, and administration of district policies. So that's a little that's a certainly a higher level a higher higher level in the progression there and the uh this means that superintendent is actively involved is looking for things and recommends to the board a policy an area that we may need to develop a policy for. um and it really is involved in explaining
085to other people um the policy when there's when there's questions about it, that sort of thing. So each one of these boxes is a performance indicator and again that's perform that's the progressive language that's uh we just discussed. So I'm going to switch here and then we're going to go to the evaluation instrument itself. And you can see the evaluation instrument now. >> Okay. So in the beginning here uh the table of contents one thing this really hasn't changed but the one thing that I would draw your attention to is this information about compiling it and there are examples of evidence. There's a whole bunch of examples of artifacts that you can use. Um so be aware that the appendix is there and there's a lot of good information here. So, with this, we're not
086going to go through every one of these, but I would like you to just read through this first page, especially if you've gone through evaluation process before, and just tell me your impressions about um what you think about this new arrangement. uh you know going from three to four uh performance levels and that sort of thing. So if you would just read through those see if you notice any changes. Hey Mark, this Bob. Um >> yeah, >> so I'm a multitasker. >> Yes. >> So I'm looking at all these documents while you're talking. Um the document overall has got a simpler tone to it. The uh criteria for each of these areas is uh better defined and I would think in the long run would make the entire evaluation process simpler uh to go through
087with superintendent Because there's sometimes, especially with highly effective, you know, you're noodling between effective and highly effective. This way, it it just pigeon holes um that particular category or that area uh in a much more common sense approach. Okay, >> good comment. I think they're ready to move forward. Mark. >> Okay. Uh, with what Bob just said, are are there any of you that maybe look at that differently that say, I wish we did have those four performance categories or performance ratings? >> I see a collective shaking heads to the negative. Okay, that's interesting because it's uh I I don't get that from everybody. There are some people when I facilitate this workshop that don't like to change at all. And one of the reasons is they want to be able to call out their
088superintendent as being highly effective. Um they and they don't like that they don't have that ability to do that. Um, I agree, Bob, 100% that you that you often got down to splitting hairs and I when I did the when I did the uh facilitated the trainings before, I always uh gave a whole b whole bunch of uh scenarios that people had to work through and there were really a lot of times there were some real splits about you know where a particular where the superintendent should be rated. in a particular area and the ones I've facilitated I'm not finding that as much now that it does seem to be more clarity about that. Um, as a superintendent, Roger, how do you feel about that category being eliminated? >> I I agree with Bob. I
089think it's it's simplified. I mean, I think I'm a little different. >> Um, I'm you know, I agree with Bob because I think it is more simplified to the point. I'm probably a little different because I'm 11 years in and whether I'm effective or highly effective. Um I I mean I I know on a regular basis how I'm doing with our board, I think they do a great job providing the feedback. Um so, you know, the fact that there isn't a highly effective rating isn't that big of a deal to me. Um, and if I didn't know how they felt about that going into that evaluation, I'd be more concerned because I think they do a nice job uh giving me that understanding before we ever even do this. But it's always nice to do
090this to reinforce those areas that show what an effective uh leader is and does. and uh and if there are talking points um that come up within these I think this is it provides a lot of clarity and is very helpful in doing so. >> Okay, thank you for that. um when the when the RA when the four rating um categories went in um we didn't have a good tool to go along with them. So, I remember when I was at the ISD, I told my administrators, "Look, I think you're all doing a good job, but when we went through our evaluation process, I'm not going to find any of you highly effective because we just don't know about this yet." And um and I don't want the teachers and the other staff members looking
091at the administrators and thinking they're getting favored by having a highly effective rating. And boy, I had a couple people that just went through the roof. They were just so upset by that. But uh anyway, I digress. You see at the bottom of that they talk about artifacts that can serve as evidence of performance in this domain. I strongly encourage a minimalistic approach to artifacts and that sort of thing. For instance, uh why would you need to show a meeting agenda or minutes when everybody's had them already? Okay, why would you need to collect that? And and I mention this because these are these are two honest examples of superendent valuations I facilitated in one the superintendent said I'm going to send you the artifacts and the evidence that I'm going to present to the
092board. So I said fine send it to me. She emailed me 600 pages. Not making it up. 600 pages, put everything in there she could possibly put in there. And I said, "I'm not going to read it, and your board's not going to read it either. Why don't you pair it down?" She goes, "Oh, no. This is what we've always done." So, she did that. I had another district that I work with where at the evaluation meeting, the superintendent passed out what looked like a professional binder for each board member that was put together with color charts and and all sorts of things. Um, and this was a real dysfunctional district. And he didn't do any of that work. it his administrative assistant um spent a month putting that together for him to make him
093look good during his evaluation process. So you don't want your superintendent spending lots of time putting together a volume of work or at least I wouldn't think you do. Um but there are times when artifacts and evidence are very important especially when it comes to those performance categories. Uh so there are room as uh most of you know for comments to be listed by the boards of education, comments be listed by the superintendent after each one of these uh categories. And it's my suggestion that the comments by the board of education be written by the board president uh as a consensus of you know what he or she has heard uh in the evaluation meeting. Again, one of these districts I work with, every board member wanted to add a comment in every one of
094these areas. I could mention that one of those evaluations took over 6 hours um as well which was um got done at 1:00 in the morning and uh I never want to go back there again. So again, we won't go through these. You still have the same categories, community relations, staff relations, uh, business and finance, and instructional leadership. And again, you're not seeing any red language anywhere. So, uh, not anything there other than the those rating levels is mandated. I'm going to switch and go back to the PowerPoint for a second here. If I can find it and we won't go through these pages. This talks about the importance of evidence. We kind of touched on this already. So this gets into uh we're into the calibration exercises now. So this first one is policy
095involvement. So I believe it's A1. Okay. And it's hopefully everybody has A1 in their evaluation instrument opened up. But here's the evidence. And what I would say the evidence is um could be what's been provided to you, you know, in writing. Uh it could be what you have observed or what you know to be true. So I would like to kind of extend it to all those areas. So you're going to rate this superintendent, this hypothetical superintendent as being one needing support, two developing or three uh effective. So the evidence provided is attendance of policy meetings is proactive regarding certain new issues developing policies. holds meetings for adjusted and new policies due to law changes and those meetings would begin with the board of education. Uh the policy approvable process is thorough and timely and
096reviews new and adjusted policies with board administration and effectively disseminates those policies to staff. So, with those items, would you rate your superintendent a three, a two, or a one? And uh what are you thinking? Maybe somebody can tell me what the consensus in the room is. >> For me, I would say three. I mean, that matches everything that's looking for. >> Okay, else got anything different? >> Seems like everybody feels that way, >> right? >> Okay, let's go on to the next one. budget reporting. So let's go to D which is business and finance and budget reports is D2. So evidence provided includes there's no regular budget reporting done at the board level. Budget to actual reports are not readily available. There's concerns about with the with the audit and when the board asks
097the superintendent is unsure about the status of finances. How would you rate your superintendent on that? >> Development plan needed. Yeah. Um Okay. >> Termination in progress. >> Yeah. >> As Bob said, redo your resume. >> Yeah, exactly. Okay. Staff input, which is um C1. So the evidence is there's a staff perception survey that's sent out but the results are not constantly consistently utilized to adjust practices. Uh staff meetings are held regularly. There's a curriculum review process that includes staff members but their ideas are utilized inconsistently. And where would you rate your superintendent on that? >> Would that be two or would that be one? >> Well, it's it's the accepting piece that I mean just Yeah. I mean, that's where >> because like two says you're accepting it. >> Yes. One says you don't
098you're not accepting or but >> two. Okay. So with that, my computer doesn't always jump from screen to screen like it should. Um that's the end of the uh calibration exercises. So that has part of your um requirement has been met with that. It all passed with fine colors. Um the evaluation cycle hasn't changed. Do you want to spend time on this and go through it with review or you feel like you're in good shape with it? >> I think we're good with it. If there's an individual board member, >> yeah, the the comment mark is they're good to go if they need additional support on that would go to Roger or the board president. >> Okay. So um planning on the front end uh is a really good idea in this and the and
099the biggest thing is to talk about these performance expectations at the beginning. Okay. So everybody's on the same page. So, you don't get down to the end uh and the superintendent doesn't know what the expectations were and or the board doesn't know and the superintendent just comes up with some. And I know that doesn't happen in your district. I can't tell you how many times that happens. And you've already talked about smart goals, so we don't really need to spend any time on that. Again, the formal final year end evaluation is this board speaking with one voice. I can't emphasize that enough. Um if the board in the process of coming to a final evaluation total uh a determination cannot agree on that. Um then at that point you would go into what you would
100deal with that in open session when you go back to accept the results of evaluation. So again the summary process is um sometime before the evaluation meeting formal evaluation superintendent provides a self-evaluation and evidence to board of education meeting members. Um some districts hold a self-evaluation meeting where that's the only topic is the superintendent presenting that self-ealuation. the actual evaluation does not take place in that meeting. Most boards that I've worked with, all the boards I've worked with, um, do it all in one night and and do it all at the same time. Um, and then the board holds the final evaluation consensus meeting and again the completed evaluation is voted on open session goes to the registry registry of educational personnel again. It's important that when the superintendent provides you with a self-evaluation that
101board of education members ask questions. I encourage superintendents to get the self-evaluation to the board at least a week before if not two weeks before and it's incumbent upon board members to call the superintendent and ask questions if they have questions if they have disagreements uh with what they're seeing compared to how the superintendent evaluate himself. That gives the superintendent a chance to respond to perhaps provide some evidence and to share that response and evidence with all board members because others may have the same question as well. Board members are also encouraged to have a blank evaluation instrument that they rate the superintendent on. they evaluate the superintendent on and that they um compare with the superintendent evaluation uh of course part of the evaluation process. Again, meeting can be held in close session by
102request of the superintendent. And um as you go around the room and you record um ratings from each board member, you should wind up with a consensus score that is something that all board members can live with. MASB does not >> one question. It seems like when we did this in the past that we could instead of having one, two, or three, you could have like a 2.5 or something like that. Is that >> Yes. Yes. Absolutely. >> Or is that >> can it does it have to be just whole numbers? One, two, or three? >> No, you can go 1.5 or 2.5. I'm sorry. I didn't answer that correctly. Yes, you can have half number scores. >> Uh again, we don't recommend that you don't average. So after each um domain is scored, you
103will see your the MSP spreadsheet will provide an score for that domain and one after each domain that is rolled up into the total evaluation score and this talks about the evidence for student growth and student assessment. So again, you will know going into the evaluation cycle um what growth data, what assessment data is going to be used and your superintendent will certainly recommend a score for that. and then the board will assign a score on the evaluation via consensus. Um, everybody is a little bit different there on how they do that. And again, the progress toward the district-wide goals, which are really the performance expectations for the superintendent, uh, is a score that the board will sign via consensus. And again, these two areas are ones where um artifacts and evidence come in really
104really handy. So proving evaluation need to leave close session reconvene and open session. I think a really good thing here, your board probably does this, is after evaluation has been voted on by the board of education, um if the board can release a statement, um an email to the staff um to the media if appropriate, that sort of thing. um sharing the results of superintendent's evaluation and a statement of support for the work that superintendent does and maybe something to say how pleased the board of education is, you know, with the performance of the superintendent and that kind of thing. Um, one of the things that does is demonstrate that the board is fulfilling its duty. And I think it also reinforces to your staff members from, you know, your principles on down that the
105superintendent's getting evaluated just like I am. Um, and you know, there there's a process that's being used that um is is really important. We >> we'll probably do a press release because that was one of Roger's goals was to get more out in the in the news. So, >> there you go. Um, so after the evaluation and the comments are added, you get a couple signed copies. One goes to the uh superintendent, one goes to the personnel file. They're remembering it is subject to foyer. And I don't think we need to talk about this calendar, do we? No. No. Um, going back to the beginning of the cycle, especially when you have new board members coming on, I think it's really good to talk about these things. Um, so if you're having your evaluation in
106December, uh, maybe in January, making sure that everybody is on board with these documents and knows where to find them um, and and knows how this is all going to work throughout the throughout the course of the year. And um this could be a part of your onboarding process for new board members and that sort of thing too. The superintendent job description, most districts don't have one. They do have policy regarding the superintendent's um duties, but really I think the the job description is pretty well encapsulated in this um evaluation instrument itself. So, we'll skip through these check-ins and stuff. um ongoing support, something for your board to talk about. Uh not only for yourselves if there's ongoing ongoing support that's needed for you as evaluators, but for your staff members as well, for your
107principles are doing evaluations and others in the district. Are there things to be done to make the process more efficient and more meaningful? So, we're kind of at the end here. You've you've officially met your requirements and um I will inform MASB that you've all gone through your training. So, you make sure you get credit on and that's uh updated on your individual profile. But I'm happy to answer any questions or uh any any discussion you like. >> Does anybody have any questions? >> No, I see a lot of head nodding. No, Mark. So, do appreciate your time tonight. Um appreciate you going through that in the detail you did. It's uh looks like a very positive updates to the overall process. Uh, so we do appreciate it and like I said, appreciate you taking
108the time this evening. >> Yeah. And thanks so much, Mark. We appreciate your time and all that you do to to help boards and superintendents and educators in general. >> Well, thank you for for allowing me to do this and giving an old guy something to do. Um, and if I can ever service serve your district in any way, um, I am certainly happy to. So, don't hesitate to ask. You guys have a good evening. >> Thanks. You too, Mark. >> Bye. >> So, Roger, are you looking still mid year at Hawk November still? >> Yeah, usually we do that. Um, and I mentioned this in one of the board updates, maybe two or four updates. I think it would be good, and if it's not this year, that's fine. But I think it would
109be good to get to the cycle where it's truly the end of the calendar year, not the end of the school year. Let me explain why that I think that's important. Um I I it's not for me. Um, but I think down the road, if you guys ever have a situation or this district ever has a situation where they're not happy with, you know, they've gone through this process, they've had time for the person to work and you're just not happy with it. By having that evaluation happen December, beginning in January at the latest, it gives you time to let that person know, you know, hey, we're we're not going to extend your contract. that person time to start looking and and hopefully it uh just ends up finding another job somewhere. Whether that's in
110education and you think, well, they probably good at education, just not good at this particular role in this particular district. but whether they can find something or whatever. When you do it in June, it really limits what's available for that person and it really limits your time on your turnaround of what you need to do. >> Yeah. Very different. Whereas if it's January, you've done some things, you have some of that. It gives you more time and it gives them more time to find something else, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. I've never been worried about that because it just never have and we've done it this way and and I think the way we do it is fine. But trying to look out for down, you know, and heaven forbid you ever
111are in that situation, you really haven't been to my knowledge. Um, and it's because you do such a good job up front, I think, making sure you have the right fit. But if you ever were in that situation, um it gives you that time to you can go slower to go right versus oh my gosh, we got to do something. We got to do it now and we don't have a lot of turnaround time. You're you're guaranteed probably to do an interim if you kept it the way it is. you probably would have to whether you had somebody qualified or not on staff, you you're more than likely going to be using an intern or somebody from the outside to plug that hole to give you the time. This way you'd have more time. >>
112Um, >> makes sense. >> So, historically, >> yeah, >> the evaluation, so we've been doing this version for about seven years. Um, and we have always tied it to the superintendent's contract, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Um, end of the year, beginning of the year. To me, that doesn't to me that doesn't matter. It's to me it's tied to the superintendent's contract. So, if we're going to move something, I'd rather move everything in whole >> because I think keeping it all together simplifies it for the board. >> It definitely simplifies it for me. And to do the calendar year end is great because everybody does them in the business world, you know, the calendar. So, if we're going to move, I just assume we move everything to the calendar year. >> And if that's something
113that we transition over the next year or whatever, that's fine. But to me, keep them together because it's, you know, you're asking us to think, you know, for me, when I'm thinking of evaluation, I'm also thinking of what's in your contract. >> Yeah. >> The two are one. they you can't you can't unconnect them. So it simplifies what you're asking the board to do. >> So I don't I don't care. >> Yeah. Right. If you want to set this as a goal where we shoot for 2026 by the end of the calendar year to be on the calendar cycle rather than the superintendent's contract cycle, I I wouldn't have an issue with that at all. Yeah, I'd say it's, you know, and and you know, you got I mean, you don't need an answer to
114that obviously, but just throwing it out there. Another thing that happens is, you know, you have you have boards that turn over and all of a sudden you've got people in January who get on a board and now all of a sudden you've got to get this training that he just mentioned that oh by the way now is required before and and so you're you're speeding things to try to get >> but it's always been required. >> It has been and for somebody like me I don't care. It's because I I mean if those people are on they they're on they deserve to be on and all that but it's hard to get sometimes to get the training in time the turnaround for them. And if you had somebody that let's say was less favorable
115and you had somebody who wasn't trained evaluating them, then somebody would have, you know, you saw the appeal process, somebody could say, well, that person's not even trained and they were part of the evaluation. So, you'd have to get in into that. So, again, just another thing to think about. I'm not saying, you know, it's worked well for 11 years for me. It's been great. So, I don't have a problem with it. But I I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm trying to look out for the district in the long hall because you might end up in that situ. You hopefully you guys don't or no one does, but somebody might and it might be good to at least reflect on is what we're doing make does this make the most sense or
116should we look at the pros and cons of a different window of time like and and they're all in there so we can look at those and go does this make more sense or not? >> How many districts within Kent County and then can Ottawa County have a different cycle than we have? They're all over. I know Hudsonvilles is on the December. I know there are several in Kent County that are in December, but I also know some are in the same thing we're in. I don't think there's a right or wrong. I just think there's pros and cons to it. And I think as a board, you know, it's not a decision I'm going to make. Um, but I think as a board it it's good to look at those different cycles and just
117know what the pros or cons on are and say, "Yeah, we're staying the same or you know, maybe this would be better to do." Um, so I mean, if you want, I can look at the different cycles and put pros down and cons to each and gives you, like I said, we're not in a hurry to do It's not I I bring it up because I do think it's uh it it is something as I look long haul when I'm not here and hopefully you guys aren't here during that time either. Somebody has, you know, there's a board that has a superintendent and they go, "Oh my gosh, what do we do here?" I'm just trying to think of what makes the most sense for the board and in fairness also to that person. >>
118So, let let me let me give you another perspective. >> Find something. >> I'm I want to give you another perspective and and John, if you want to chime in, I'd like to hear your viewpoint as well. There are five areas within this and one of them is budget, right? So to, you know, in from my perspective to to do it at the end of the calendar year when our budget ends in the middle of the year and we already in a budget crunch and we probably will be we're always in a bell curve, right? It's just what happens with with the budget. So to me keeping the current cycle ties to that because that's a critical piece. I mean if you look at the example we had >> very much so >> right the
119example was like hey we're not getting what we need time to fix something. So for me I like the fact that that to me that's that's it's critical. I mean, if you know, >> it's an $80 million year industry. >> Yes. >> I guess I'd like to hear what other districts that you were saying do use the end of the year calendar. What how are they dealing with that given the budget >> ending? Yeah. You know, >> here's what I'll do. I'm I'm the I'm the president of the K County Superintendent Association. So, I will send out to our people When are what cycle are you evaluated on? >> Give me the pros and cons and in particular budget. How do you handle that? How does your board handle the budget perspective knowing that your
120budget really isn't finalized until later and and see what they say? Then I I we can get that data for you guys >> and and go from there. That's fine. You want to ask for contract is if there contract timing also. >> Um yeah I can ask contract timing as well. >> I mean it seems like I like what Bob said in terms of time keeping it together makes sense but then if we were to change it to the January like >> yeah this is where your contract you're out without a superintendent for the second half of the year. >> Yeah. I would say >> should you find a delinquent superintendent >> here's what I would say if >> someone's not doing their job. >> But that's the whole point. That's the whole point we're
121>> Yeah, but I I understand that. But I think you're going worst case scenario. >> That's what we're setting this up though for is worst case scenario. >> Yeah, it is. I I just I'm trying to make you think of the different cycles. Why it might be beneficial as an example to do that December cycle. Um, I'll I'll write out some pros and cons from my perspective. >> I'll get what everybody's doing and get those questions answered for you. Let's just stay on the same cycle. >> Here's the other piece. Here's the other piece. So, let's say it's not working out and it's June. >> If they're not working out, I don't care if it's June. Goodbye. >> But you care >> have to find a new super. >> And you know what? And yes,
122and that market is dry as a bone. And you know, every district has to come up with uh an alternative plan. That's just the way that the world has become over the last 12 years. Well, and I can tell you this, and I know I can say this in here. Um, part of my job is to set you up with the future superintendent in this district, and that's what I'm trying to do. And I think you have several people who can be that in the future anyway. So, but not everybody does that. Right. >> I I kind of agree, right? If we give a final, you know, the heard of that review in December, right? Yeah. >> The superintendent knows that they're I don't say in trouble, but knows it's not looking good, right, for
123that next contract. They're starting to look. All of a sudden, that word is getting out with the parties that do need to know, >> right? >> And I still view Brandle as a step up for a lot of probably good superintendents out there that aren't in great, you know, maybe in great situations. So I just view that there's positives for for us is that hey now all of a sudden people know Roger's on the on the cusp right you know and so hey now maybe I'm going to hold out for that you'll be able to apply for that spot >> but that's just I mean that's my hope is how it's viewed in grandle but >> so in your survey of of the other districts are you ask them how do you deal with the
124budget >> yeah I will ask I'll ask the budget um >> I wonder if they do Now that's the contract. Does it does it go hand in hand with >> with that cycle if it is a something other than the you know midyear mid school year end of school year battle like we do. >> Yeah. Right. And I think it'd be if you can even ask Hudsonville, do you do your contract at the same time you're doing your evaluation stuff? Like that would be there's got to be just a million combinations of >> Yeah, I think I know that. There might be a theme that rises to the top. There might be a theme that rises to the top that makes the most sense. >> And like I said, so basically what I'm hearing, I'll
125get that information for you. Let's just stay on the same cycle and let's do that for now, right? We wouldn't want to jump. Let's let's get that information uh for you and then you guys can determine what we want to stay the same or you think should change. when we when we were looking for you, um, we had 11 applications and we settled to interview four. two just because we wanted to get to four and we only ended with two and okay by and far you were my favorite from the beginning but the the the the debate on the board there was stars in the eyes rather than true capability and obviously we picked the right one Raj there's no doubt in my Um, but again, I don't know how many superintendents have I hired,
126three or four. Um, the pool is very thin. The pool now is pathetic and I I wouldn't I mean, if it were me, I would never hire out of state. That was a bad situation we did with Dr. Sheldon and Dr. Buts, and I would never do it again. never. >> And you asked about the budget part of it is an interesting thing to think about budget and student growth >> data as it relates to November or December or January. I think it's worth looking like Roger said, pull all those pieces of data together. Understand how they pull all of those pieces because if you don't know what that budget is mid-spring, you can pretty much tell that it's going to be in June, but you're right, December, you may not. >> Yeah. >> And
127you don't have the student data. So I think I do think there's a >> but you don't have the student data the accurate student >> because we use K12 we use SAT >> every educator in this district is evaluated on SAT because that is what we're trying to grow when a person leaves us. That's the culminating piece. So we're all tied to that. Um you don't have that at that time. No, that's a thing. You're looking at threeear averages and all that stuff. >> Yeah. So, some of those things are wonky, but I I think ours is very good. So, I I don't have a problem with staying with that and I would have no problem in the future. I'm just trying to make you think about cuz those cycles are up there and when
128I went through this to see what was the same, what was different when I hit the cycles, I'm like, >> you could adjust your valve based on the cycles. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um and another thing with the way we do it now, I guess you could say to that person at the midyear, hey, >> this isn't going well. I mean, you could give them a heads up without having to be the official heads up and then >> and you would want to do that any I mean, I would want to do that anyway because >> you want to let them know, okay, we're seeing some performance issues. >> That's fair. >> We've done that. Y >> principles >> and that's part of the evaluation law. If you're looking at maybe a review and things aren't
129going well, you got to offer room for improvement and a plan for improvement. Um it keeps the board and the district out of a lawsuit. We've done that. It's same with all the other administrators. So, so I'm not saying it's broken. I'm just trying to make you think and I know there's some things I know are pros with the other one. Um, but maybe they're also cons what you brought up. So, >> for us in June and revisit and and and say, "Okay, here we are now in June." >> Uhhuh. >> Is there an advantage to keeping through this cycle or would it be better if we were to back it up to the end of December? >> Yeah. and and and look at the data that we find out by the districts. Look at
130where we are and what we do have or don't have at our disposal >> to do an evaluation. Or do we look retroactively to the previous year's >> end performance, >> which in my head that's what I'm thinking other other districts have to do if they're doing that by December, right? >> Yeah. I mean, we can Yeah, they're they're doing something. Yeah, I think they're pros and cons, though, >> probably is what we're going to find out. And I think we'll find it's a mixed bag out there who's doing what. >> Um, so yeah. >> Okay. >> Um, there's one other thing that was brought up. Um, >> so are you going to do a November? >> We'll do the November midy year. Yeah. All right. We'll do the November mid year and just stay
131on the same schedule. Okay. >> Oh, I know what it was. That whole media thing. Yeah. >> But uh the uh >> that was one of your goals. >> It is public because you guys do it in a public meeting and a lot of the way all of ours are recorded. >> You all talk about the performance. I mean, you you all chime in. You talk about the superintendent's performance during that. Um, you know, do you do something for the staff? No. Could you? Yes, you could. >> We used to. It really wasn't a valuable tool. >> Yeah. >> I got to stop myself from saying it could be a gender reveal, right? >> Yeah. We did staff, we did 360s, >> nothing nothing from the 360s ever uh enlightened anybody on the board. So
132>> well we and no with the with the perception we do that every year now anyway with staff with kids and with parents. So, you know, that data is there. >> Um, and we certainly can share it more if you want it, what, whatever. But we'll be doing that. Last year was that baseline year of all three. So, this year we'll have that of all three. So, we'll be able to look the differences. So, there's plenty of there's way more. >> I was glad that Bren brought up the point whatever also. I like that. And then it's interesting because I mean the effective is 85% and up. So I mean that gives you some wiggle room to you know I think that when it comes to evaluations too. So thanks for that point. >> That's
133a good point. >> That was a good answer. >> It's I like just having the three three options. We have 15. >> Oh jeez. >> It's a 15 block we have to choose from and then we have to the calibration systems. We have to sit and argue about is is the person a one or a three or or one or two >> 15. Yeah. >> Anyway, I would just like say I I I felt good because I felt bad if that makes sense. I felt I felt good because a lot of the stuff we've we already know and we've already do and it was just like okay yeah we know we know we know but then I felt bad cuz you had to sit through it but I know you know by law you had
134to um >> and the fact the fact that you got to do it every 3 years that sucks >> agree but anyway >> are we done public comment next regular meeting of the Grand Board of Education Monday, October 20th, 2025 to 7:00 p.m. in the administration building.