HCS Board Meeting March 16, 2026

001Okay. Test. Test. All right. We're back up. All right. Yes, Mrs. Briskey, why don't you come up and Finish it up. >> continue? Okay. So, back to our Farms Intermediate School Band. So, we do have 172 students enrolled in fifth grade band and 177 students enrolled in sixth grade band. During the year, Mrs. Tennis and the students we have two fifth grade concerts in December and May, three sixth grade concerts in December, March, and May. The last concert that the sixth graders did was it Monday? Last Monday? We combined with the middle school band, which was amazing. We have a Farms and high school rehearsal day. Instrumental specialists come on in during um the school year to help with those different instruments. Mrs. Tennis offers an Eagle Band after school who also got to perform

002on Monday. The students are super excited um to go in May on a Michigan adventure trip and perform at Michigan Adventure. We have band karate and the Detroit Symphony Orchestra honor band. We know that music music education is not just about performance. It strengthens literacy, mathematical thinking, memory, and collaboration skills that support overall academic success. So, without further ado, Mrs. Tennis and the band students. >> [applause] >> All right. So, first up we have Logan and Logan is playing Barry Sax and you have Sawyer and Sawyer is playing tenor sax. And they are performing a piece called Springtime Waltz. >> [music] [music] [applause] >> Nice job. All right. Next up we have Morelli and Morelli is on mellophone over here. We have Tessa on euphonium and we have Ella on flute and Lily on flute

003and they will be performing Oh, Susanna. >> [music] [music] [bell] [music] [applause] >> They were fifth graders as well and I did not take any credit. All the students who are performing tonight pretty much put these all together on their own. I gave a little bit of advice, but this is their hard work. All right. And Jack is our sixth grader and Jack will be performing a piece called Londo. >> [music] [music] [applause] >> All right. I just want to say thank you to all the parents, too, that brought their students out for this cuz it was amazing to hear all that. And that is the wonderful things happening at Farms. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Thank you all. Thank you for coming out here tonight. Thank you parents for bringing your children and allowing

004us to hear them play. Appreciate that. So ends the superintendent's report. Thank you, Mr. Hughes, and thank you to Mrs. Briskey and everyone at Farms. That was amazing. >> [clears throat] >> Let's see. Next up is item 1E, call to the public. Soon as I find my notes. Speakers are asked to express themselves in a civil manner with due respect for the dignity dignity and privacy of others who may be affected by your comments. Each speaker may be limited to 3 minutes. I'll hold up this yellow folder at approximately 2 and 1/2 minutes to let you know that time is almost up. I have Ms. Kimberly Thompson. Hi. Good evening. Um again, my name's Kim and um I was unable to make it last time. Unfortunately, was sick kids at home. Um but I really

005appreciate the the time to speak tonight and um the vote last time to put out a detailed description of the superintendent's role and community education position. But just so I don't get off topic, I do have it written down here tonight for you guys. Um and I'm going to go ahead and proceed with what I have to say. Um good evening. I'd like to speak regarding the posted position of the director of community education. The job description raises some concerns that deserve some attention. For a position with a starting salary of nearly 100,000 plus benefits, the expectations outlined here are surprisingly vague and lack the level of specific typical um seen in a leadership role of this magnitude. Um the document emphasizes personality traits and general interpersonality qualities such as positivity, collaboration, work ethic, but

006it provides a very few concrete qualifications and there are no clear requirements for years of leadership experience, program administration, educational background, and demonstrated success managing large-scale community education initiatives. Excuse [clears throat] me. Um Additionally, much of the language language in this reads more like a broad workplace values um than you know, an operational responsibilities. The uh this has a concern for me and the community because there's no clear defined um quantitative evaluation of skills set in the current job descriptions. Um so positions publicly funded resources should be transparent, well-defined standards, a clearly um descriptive uh evaluation or set of guidelines to protect both the district and the applicants by ensuring a hiring process based on demonstrated qualifications rather than subjective interpretation. Um I encourage the board to revisit this position and strengthen and with the

007specific requirements that would be present measurable expectations for an accountability standard uh versus um personal thoughts and opinions. Uh the description is very very vague and no clear requirements are currently pre- presented to the public to look at. So that's a concern of mine. I I I think that when you guys had stated that you guys were going to put it out to the public and some requirements, I think it gave a false hope to the public that this was going to be a fair um process because you'll have X, Y, and Z that has to be met. There's not a lot here to go off of to meet X, Y, and Z. It could go to anyone. It could go to the Taco Bell worker. It could go to the McDonald's worker. There's not

008very much here that would support a job of $100,000. So I want to bring this to your attention that what is your basis description doesn't fit the role. And I personally wouldn't want my kids to go to Hartland Community um consolidated child care center with the current set of qualifications that you're asking from a candidate. That doesn't ensure the best qualified candidate is going to come forward. It seems like the bare minimum was done and presented and I think that to the public it's a slap in the face. That's all I have to say today, but thank you guys so much for your time. Thank you, Ms. Thompson. And that is the only card that I have for tonight. Okay, so if there I guess I'll say this for anybody who can hear, but if

009you know someone who hasn't been able to rejoin, um there's a new site link and that's available on the website um in the same place that the other site link was um but it's a new link to connect to this live stream with audio. So if you know somebody who can't hear us, please pass that along to them. Thank you for that. All right, moving on to item 1F, committee and building reports. Mr. Gogoleski. Uh thank you um Mrs. Coleman. I appreciate that. Um coming right after the band to talk about Farms is a little tough. I mean that was a tough act to follow, but um Farms right now is kind of in the middle of their fifth grade camp season. So right now you can expect all of the uh uh folks at

010Farms to be a little busy, a little preoccupied. So if you have to make a call to Farms or uh get some kind of uh special note or attention from the uh Farm staff, just give them a little grace cuz uh they are more than under pressure with fifth grade camp. Um and just a couple weeks ago, one of my favorite events um happened at Farms. It's the science fair. And what I love about the science fair is that a lot of kids get to be as geeky as they want and feel good about it. And uh I learned a lot of things at the science fair. I learned all about uh potatoes generating more electricity than lemons. I learned all about the uh digestive system of guinea pigs and the end product. Amazing. Um

011I also found out how hard it is to digest certain candies and that was really scary especially when they were handing them out afterwards, too. So uh lots of good stuff at Farms and uh as you saw with the band here, um things are going very well over there. Mm hats off to um Crystal Briskey and Tom Yurk. Awesome, thank you. Mr. Campbell. Thank you. Uh Creekside Elementary is doing well. Uh the one thing that we talked about the most just to pass on is March is reading month uh throughout the district. We're well aware. Um kids are doing good, focusing on reading in the school and encouraged uh parents to be involved with the reading and other academics at home as well, but Creekside doing very well. Thank you very much, Mrs. Shaw. Thank

012you. Um just a couple quick updates for Round Elementary. Um their book fair is this week. They had an author that was there last week, Mr. Philip Stead. And his um one of his taglines I guess that he talked about which I thought was really cool is storytelling is the secret sauce of education. I thought that was pretty cool. But the big news at Round is that Mr. Cromer was the J. Towers Teacher of the Week last week and I know that was shared on the Round PTO page and Hartland Schools page as well. So congratulations to him. Um you know, he he leads his classroom in a different way I think than most art teachers do and it's a real fourth grade, sorry. Um fourth grade teacher and you know, I've got to meet

013him and kind of look around his classroom. So um yeah, so congratulations to him and um being the teacher of the week last week. That's it. Awesome. Thank you. Mr. Keller. All right, thank you. Um mine are about the Lakes team, of course. So wanted to just uh give a shout out to um the PTO last month. I was able to attend the Quest for Kindness Assembly. So got to watch the kids uh travel through the uh the forest of fear and the cave of confusion to unlock the key to kindness. So pretty cool stuff there. Uh again, thank you to the Lakes PTO and the staff for that event. Um this past weekend, there was 23 students who were featured at the Got Art student exhibit that was displayed over at the Howell Opera

014House. Hopefully some of you were able to go check some of that out. Again, uh March reading month. Um and coming up on the 19th, there'll be the uh Galaxy Storytime. So you get to see a lot of your favorite staff members read some of their uh favorite books and possibly even a a board member to participate in that as well. Um last Friday was the end of the marking period. Just as a reminder to those who are listening, uh progress reports are going to be available on March 20th, which more fun for the students perhaps is that it's also popcorn day that day. So that's fun for them. Uh we have a March 21st is the Livingston County Parents Summit at Parker Middle School. So please uh stay tuned to Mr. Hughes' updates for

015those um details. We've got our fourth grade field trip coming up on March the 25th. Um and of course, probably don't need to remind anybody, but March 30th week is spring break. So I'm sure everyone's got that already marked on their calendars, but we'll remind you just in case. And then last but not least is uh autism awareness day coming up on April the 6th. Uh moving over to Community Ed. Um I did go to see the pool. We obviously we had the event or the item on the agenda here to talk about the the stair renovation. So it was a good time to go see that and you know, looking out the window at the snow coming down, kind of wish I was in the 83° pool area right now. So Matt, maybe we

016can go back after. Matt did invite me to use the hot tub, so maybe I'll take him up on that after. >> [laughter] >> So that concludes my report. Thank you, Mr. Keller. Mr. Scott. >> [laughter] >> I don't know how to follow that one. Um You're wishing there was no sound again, right? >> [laughter] >> Yeah. I'll just I'll just move my lips and they'll imagine. Um at uh at Ore Creek, I haven't had a chance to stop by this month, but I did get a chance to go to the joint uh Farms Ore Creek band concert and I wish I could have said something when everybody was here, but what a spectacular experience and the work that's put in by Mrs. Tennis, Mr. Tennis, Mr. and Mrs. Lively is is pretty spectacular. Having

017been at that event a couple years in a row, seeing the progress our students make from fifth grade to sixth to seventh to eighth is pretty incredible. Um, I think it shows the value of having that intermediate school and getting students started in more formal music education a year earlier than than most other districts. And it makes just an amazing amazing difference. So, um a real shout out to administrators from both buildings and certainly the band staff. And uh and the staff that doesn't get paid that still puts in all the work. Um, for all the hard work to to have our students sound so great and make such great progress in a short period of time. So, a great experience and thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Scott. Ms. Custodio. So, great things

018going on at Village. They just had donuts with grownups and they're getting ready to do a PTO sponsored charity event raising funds for a local charities. Each grade level picked a charity within the community that they're going to raise money for. They also have March as reading month in full swing and they are having a March Madness book bracket and it's going to end with one book winning for the entire school. So, that should be exciting. Very nice. Thank you. Um, I have I'm assigned to both high school campuses. So, I connected with Ms. Conley at HVA and Legacy last week. Um, I'm super thankful for the time that we got together. We thought for we thought for a minute if there's going to be another snow day cuz it was Friday when it was

019snowing in the morning, but we made it. Um, I I understand that there's a fairly long standing tradition at Legacy for Legacy students to participate in a basketball tournament and they were able to do that this Friday. I'm sorry, in February. They were able to do that with other area alternative high schools and it's a great time. A lot of students were able to participate in that and I think maybe even some of the staff. So, it was a good time. I understand it was quite successful. Um, also at Legacy, this is our first year offering work based learning which is a way to earn high school credit through job experience. The main campus school has been doing this for for a few years few years now, but this is the first year that this

020has been open to Legacy students. So, thank you to the teacher to those teachers at the main campus who have been sharing their wisdom and experience to get this off the ground and running successfully so far this year at Legacy. Um, if you're not familiar with the program, um, students are permitted to leave campus to work for a set number of hours during their school day during the week at least one day a week they're in class during that time and they're they're responsible to submit weekly paperwork um during that class time when they're there with their coordinator or teacher. Um, they're they receive instruction on soft skills like interpersonal skills, building resumes, things like that that are valuable in the work world. Um, and the teacher or coordinator visits the job site for each

021student twice per per semester and visits with the managers at those locations or at those job sites. So, super valuable experience and it's great that they can be earning um, high school credit while still maintaining those jobs. So, um thank you to again to the to the staff at the main campus for for sharing that and supporting the program for Legacy. Um, and this is just one example of how Legacy and HVA are offering really a lot of the same experiences to our students that the main campus students receive as well. Participating in extracurricular activities like that basketball tournament, creating their yearbook, competing on HCS sports teams. In fact, football, wrestling, and e-sports all have students from Legacy or HVA participating on those on those teams and a variety of elective classes as well. Um,

022these are all available to Legacy and HVA students. So, it's really a great experience. We try to make it the best experience that we can no matter where our students are learning. Um, switching over to main campus high school. I met with Mr. Fitzgerald recently as well and there are a few highlights there from our conversation. Testing season obviously is nearly upon us. Right after spring break we'll start with PSAT, SAT, M-STEP, all the things. And I think some testing schedules have already gone out so that families can help prepare their students for their testing days. Um, and I'm sure there will be reminders in coming weeks. Um, now that everyone's schedules have been submitted for current 8th to 11th grade students, Mr. Fitzgerald and his team are hard at work with building that master

023schedule for next year. So, so that everything can be hopefully all students can have the classes that they want and we've got the teachers put in place to be able to deliver them. Uh, winter sports obviously are pretty much wrapped up and the spring sports season has officially begun with tryouts and practices starting last week. And last month I mentioned that there was a new fundraising event. It was a polar plunge for unified and special ed. That happened last week on the 10th and it was quite a success. There was a lot of people there. I was able to attend just long enough to see our admin team from the main campus high school participate and take a plunge. everyone has seen the video footage on Facebook. It's been on the HCS Facebook page, I

024believe. It was a ton of fun. The weather cooperated, I think. At least it wasn't snowing. It wasn't that cold, but it was cold enough, I'm sure. But there were students from Hartland and from Brighton. There were sports teams and unified team members that participated from both districts as well. And it's really kind of cool to see what happens when communities come together because they raised I believe I saw posted on Facebook that the latest the the latest number was $29,000 between the two schools. Yeah, so it's it's really cool to see what can be accomplished. And of course when you throw in a little competition with your cross town rival, that helps too. So, really great success and it was a lot of fun to watch. Um, that's all I have. Okay. Let's see,

025moving on to item 2A, job descriptions, director of community education and assistant superintendent of curriculum and instruction. President Coleman, before we have a motion to that's in the the detailed agenda, I think it'd be appropriate to wave privilege on the attorney-client privilege communication we received regarding this action item. So, I'm going to move to wave privilege on the March 6th memo 2026 from Thrun Law Firm titled development of administrator job descriptions. I'm sorry, can you read the title again, please? Development of administrator job descriptions dated March 6th, 2026. Okay, so there is a motion on the table to wave privilege for the letter from Thrun. Second. Okay. Uh, letter from Thrun dated I'm sorry, what was the date? >> March 6th, 2026. March 6th, 2026. Subject, development of administrative job descriptions. >> Administrator job descriptions.

026>> [snorts] >> Okay, and that's brought forward by Mr. Scott and that was Mr. Gogoleski who second? >> Yes. Okay, is there any discussion on the motion? I guess I'll start. Um, I personally don't see a need to wave privilege um for that communication to have the discussion that we are planning to have considering the the work that has gone in just recently with a few of our board members and with Chuck and his team to make a few changes amendments to the um >> [clears throat] >> to the descriptions. Um, I don't I don't feel that it's necessary to wave privilege to have the discussion. Okay, I can I can give some justification here. So, um at the February 16th meeting uh, we had a resolution on the table to um to pass a

027resolution that had been watered down a little bit, but essentially asked the superintendent to create job descriptions and make a job posting for administrator positions. Um, at that meeting I specifically cited uh, Michigan school code section 12292 which states that the board shall prescribe the duties of the administrators. I was told at this table that I was wrong, that that was incorrect and the board had no say in approving administrator job positions. The following day the board received a joint memo from Kate Gregory, David Minsker, and Rachel Boys saying and I quote, "The Hartland School Board's recent resolution limits the superintendent's authority to select members of the leadership team. Um after receiving that memo from central office administrators, I submitted a request to uh President Coleman on February 18th uh asking for a legal opinion

028regarding section 1229.2 of the school code and the board's duty to approve and create administrator job descriptions. In that uh request, I specifically said I wanted to be copied on all communication uh to and from the attorney because my previous request for legal opinion had been modified, changed, misconstrued, and by the time it got to the attorney, um it was nothing like my initial request. Um we did receive That was February 18th. We did receive some communication back from the attorney sometime late February saying sorry, he's slow, he's going to get to it, he was out of town. Um And then on March 11th the board package was released, which contains what you see here, approval of the board to approve the administrator job descriptions, which was strange because I was specifically told at this

029table on February 16th by President Coleman and other members of the board that that was not a job of the board. So uh I reached out some to President Coleman on um March 13th. Uh it well, reached out before that, but we had a conversation on March 13th, and in that conversation it came out, "Oh, yes, the legal opinion has been received by the uh by the district on March 6th." A legal opinion that was withheld from board members for a week. Now, a week doesn't sound like a long time until you look at the timeline and the fact that we received the board package on Mark March 11th, which is Wednesday, and are expected to be prepared to discuss and vote on items here today. But that legal opinion was withheld from at least

030myself. I can't speak for all members of the board. I don't know who withheld it. I don't know who received it. I would love for them to go on the record tonight with that. But that legal opinion was withheld. That legal opinion directly contradicts uh the memo we received from Ms. Gregory, Mr. Minsker, and Ms. Boyce. It also directly contradicts what I was told at this table on February 16th. I think it's necessary that we're able to discuss that in detail uh in in order to satisfy our duty to the community, to the public, to uh set the job descriptions and duties of our central office administrators. So that's why I believe it's necessary that we um waive privilege. There's nothing in here confidential. There is nothing in here um that that puts anything at

031risk other than confirmation that we have the obligation to undertake this task. Is there any further discussion? Did you want to go on the record with when the when it was received, who received it, why it wasn't shared with the board? Sure. I believe the email was sent to Mr. Hughes and myself. And it didn't go to anyone because it wasn't opened in my mailbox until I was on the phone with you on the 13th. Well, someone opened it because it ended up on the agenda on the 11th. So what was the conversation then? >> imagine Mr. Hughes read that before I did. Okay. So Mr. Hughes, why you did you not share that with the board? Thanks for asking. I will tell you that the job descriptions are sitting in front of you today

032because the attorney you asked for an opinion, attorney gave an opinion, and so they're sitting there today. Thank you. So is the board not entitled to receive How could it possibly be that the board of education is not entitled to receive legal opinions for the board from the board's own legal staff, own attorney? No, no one said that the board is not entitled to that, Jeff. So why was it withheld for a week? >> The email wasn't opened, Jeff. The email the the legal communication had to have been considered in order for the agenda item to be on today's agenda. Otherwise, it would have been the same thing we were told last month that the board has no role in setting the duties of top-level administrators. It is on me to to share that information.

033I told you that I would. It is on me to share that information. I fell short. We received it at 4:00 or approximately >> the 13th when I sent it out to everyone. >> On Friday for a Monday Yep. in which were we have been told for months we have no role in this process and to stay out of it, and now we're being told, "Oh, wait, nope, you have to approve these job descriptions." The job posting for the community ed position closed at 3:00 p.m. today. Don't you think it's important that we know what the attorneys say about what we have to do tonight regarding those job descriptions? Don't you think it's important that we hear what the attorneys have to say when it comes to central office staff saying that the board has

034uh limited the superintendent's authority to select members of the leadership team by asking for very basics like a job description? Mr. Scott, you Okay, you've made your point about 12 times. Mrs. Coleman has apologized for her mistake. We have the information. Now, we can't go back in time. The board has what it needs. Mr. Hughes followed direction of the board and the attorney. That's what we have in front of us today. >> The direction of the board is to withhold legal >> I didn't speak over you. You won't speak over me. Mrs. Coleman has let us know that she did not send it to us sooner than Friday. She apologized. We can't go back in time and change it. The information would not have changed whether or not we had it on the 6th or

035the 13th. Again, Mr. Hughes followed direction of the board by providing us those job descriptions back in February. We did not know what we didn't know. So again, asking the attorney for the information, that's the information we all have in front of us now. So making her feel bad and going saying it 12 times is not going to change the fact that she sent it later than she should have, and we have it to go in front of us today. The motion on the table is whether or not to waive privilege on the >> what the motion is for. So that is why this has come up because uh President Coleman has expressed that she does not wish to waive privilege on this document, while I am saying it is completely relevant to our conversation.

036Understood. Anyone else have anything to contribute? Mr. Hughes. Now, I just want to go on record. Point of order. We have a motion on the table. We can ask him to speak. You can't ask him to speak. You can ask him a question. You cannot just ask him to speak. Okay. Mr. Hughes, could you please share your thoughts on the on the discussion at the table? >> Point of order. You can ask him a objective question, not a subjective question. Oh my goodness. The I'm following Robert's Rules of Order. There's a motion on the table. Only of the board is allowed to engage in debate on the motion. Okay. This is standard procedure for Mr. Scott. He wants to shut everybody down and only let him >> [snorts] >> Is there any further discussion on

037the motion to waive privilege regarding the letter from Thrun dated 3/6/26 entitled Development of Administrator Job Descriptions brought forward by Mr. Scott, seconded by Mr. Gogoleski. Hearing none. Mr. Gogoleski. Yes. Mr. Campbell. Yes. Mr. Mrs. Shaw. No. Mr. Keller. Yes. Mr. Scott. >> Yes. Ms. Custodio. No. I'm a no. Motion carries. Okay. Now that that is past us, we can move on to item 2A. Job Descriptions Director of Community Education and Assistant Superintendent of Curriculum and Instruction. I move that the Board of Education, upon the recommendation of the superintendent, approves the job descriptions for the Director of Community Education and the Assistant Superintendent of Curriculum and Instruction as presented. Support. Motion by Mrs. Shaw, supported by Mr. Campbell. Um I guess to to kick this off, obviously there's there's um advice that we have from

038an attorney that will be talking about as well. Um but this that originated The reason we even requested it was thanks to Mr. Scott's uncanny knowledge of the Michigan Revised School Code. It was brought to our attention that the job descriptions should be officially approved by the board. So, this was added to tonight's agenda as an action item. At the last meeting, the board directed Chuck to post for both the central both central office positions that will soon be open to retirement. And though the resolutions that we passed specifically referred to the assistant superintendent position that will be open, the community ed position had been has been posted and the super and the other one will be posted in the spring, I believe. And this was all by the direction of the board. Should the

039board have approved the job descriptions prior to to the posting and holding the interviews? In a perfect world, yes. Not all of us were aware that this MCL existed. Not all of us knew. Mr. Scott did. He pointed it out and we have an attorney letter that backs up that position. So, I understand the frustrations. I've heard the frustrations and I get it regarding this. I feel that the focus that we should make is should be on going forward from here. We're aware of this. We know that this is the the board's responsibility to carry out. And so, with with with future central office administrator job descriptions, that will be the process going forward. For this situation, yes, this does feel like we got the cart before the horse. But this is still a a

040necessary step as we've been informed that the board needs to take. Just kind of wanted to set it up with some context. Does anyone else have something to add? Mr. Gogolewski. >> Yeah, I do. Um the worry that I have is that um from a legal perspective, I'm not sure how we can close out applications for a job and now just approve um a job description. And and for me, that's like, you know, getting a ticket and then having somebody tell you, well, we're going to write a law for what this ticket is for later. Um I I think that sets us up uh in a very bad position. Um I think perhaps maybe we should open up the uh period if we want to approve this job description maybe for another week or two.

041Um I just think that from a a legal perspective, I think it's kind of dangerous to kind of do what we want to do tonight. Thank you, Mr. Gogolewski. Any other comments? Mr. Scott. Yeah, so uh in a in the legal opinion, uh it states that the board, as I earlier said, shall prescribe the duties of its administrators. This is a responsibility and and this this doesn't mean we get into the nitty-gritty on teachers and this is that. But the idea is here, these positions are being rewritten to decide the vision in the districts of the vision and the mission of the district. They should align with our strategic plan. Community ed, for for instance, we're losing GSRP. That's a large chunk of the role. Um so, that role is being very much redefined. And

042so, it is the board's duty, responsibility to the taxpayers and to uh the constituents to make sure we prescribe those duties, come up with job descriptions that are consistent with what we think is best for this community. And then, we approve those. We give those to the superintendent and he goes and finds the best person for that job. That's how this should work. This process has been going on for months and months and months and we have been told to keep our nose out of it. We're out of our lane. We're overstepping boundaries, etc., etc. And now uh our attorney has said, "No, in fact, that's not true." Um when the when the central office administrators sent an email to the entire board on February 17th, they said we were overstepping um um what we

043were limiting the superintendent's ability to pick his own team. Our law firm said, and I quote, um the resolution is, quote, "Therefore, in and in itself, both within its statutory authority and consistent with policy 1100." So, when our central office administrators say we're stepping out of our lane, the attorney says, "No, you have failed to do what you were elected to do." The attorney goes on to say, "The board must act on the administrator job descriptions for it to be effective." So, to receive that from the attorney on Friday before a Monday meeting to rubber stamp a job description that has been in the works for months, and that's why I say withholding that for even a week is a disservice to this community, to the to the teachers, to the students, to the parents,

044to everyone in the community who has elected us to set job descriptions and set the vision of the district. And now, when we came to sit down here tonight, we had uh revised job descriptions in front of us with a couple words changed and something highlighted as if we're going to sit down here magically and say, "Oh, a couple words were changed and so now we can vote on this." No, this should be a discussion. It should be a discussion of the board to determine the vision of the district and the and what we see with these roles. With community ed in particular, I see a a lot of opportunity now that we're taking one thing off the plate to look at other ways to maximize revenue, etc. Those are not addressed in here. As

045one parent quickly realized there's not much in here about child care. Um when I was coming into the community and I looked at community ed, child care was kind of the the centerpiece is what I saw that role is and we've glossed over it. We have nothing about experience. We have nothing about um leading a staff. The the community ed director oversees a staff almost as large as the instructional staff. Um hundreds of of part-time uh seasonal employees. That is an enormous challenge. We need somebody who has that experience. Uh Ms. Hazle makes it look easy. It's not. I can assure you. Anyone who has overseen part-time or seasonal staff, it is not easy. Imagine trying to staff that pool every day with lifeguards or keep people This is a challenge and we have put

046out a job description uh as as one parent said, that is just full of fluff. I would like to see uh this board come together, have an honest discussion about where we see this department in the future and how we're going to get there. And also with um with the assistant superintendent of curriculum position. Again, being given a weekend to say, "You now have to approve that." is is absolutely absurd. It It highlights the dysfunction of this board and it should not be tolerated by this community. We should be held to a higher standard and and really do what our job is, what we are elected, you know, the quote-unquote MCLs. What What that means, law. That's called the law. We need to uphold the law. We need to abide by the law and carry

047out our responsibilities to this district. So, for those reasons, I certainly cannot approve these job descriptions tonight. Thank you, Mr. Scott. Mr. Campbell. Thank you. Um So, I'm just going to address the board uh and not so much those present here or the camera, but I think we are here to see what we can do to push through this to get it approved. I acknowledge all your points, Mr. Scott, but I think we can now focus on each other here at the table to figure out what can we do to push this and not just say I'm not going to approve it and then we wait until something else comes through. We can be proactive to look at this. Uh there was a change from what we got in the packet originally to uh update

048some qualifications on this. So, uh in an effort to move this forward, we'll start with the director of community education because that is the motion. Um It was updated to require a a college degree and or relevant work experience in the budgeting uh and marketing. So, I read that. I like the additions. Um it was updated to have the college experience now, the college degree. It's a little ambiguous for the relevant work experience in budgeting and marketing for what that could possibly be and maybe the length of time. Um but it is nice to see that on there now for the college degree considering the pay that is in there, considering the impact it has on the community and the number of staff members within that. So, I hear you, Mr. Scott, but to stay

049on track and address uh us here at the board, the seven of us, why we're here today to take our time to be here. Uh let's see what we can do to push this forward to try and make this happen. Um you say you do not like it. Uh I do happen to like it. I'll say that. Then, what would you like to be modified so that we can move forward? I I do have some suggestions, but here's part of the issue. This isn't about what I would like to have added to to move forward. This is about what the board sees as the vision for our community ed moving forward. Um and I think there's a key difference there. What I want may not may be different than what others want. Um like I

050said, we've taken a chunk out of that job description with the GSR or out of the role, out of the duty. And I think it takes some time and energy and uh thoughtfulness. We're we're talking about bringing somebody in who's probably going to be here, hopefully, for 10, 15, 20 years. The idea of get it right next time doesn't really sit when you when you are filling a top role like this. This department oversees $3.5 million budget, approximately, and like I said, a couple a couple hundred employees. Um I would like to see much stronger requirements when it comes to leadership experience, uh much stronger requirements when it comes to managing budgets and large part-time or seasonal staff. Um I would like to see somebody who demonstrates success in in generating revenue, controlling costs. Um

051somebody with experience in grant writing or management. I we had talked about that. That could be uh some exciting opportunities for community ed. I would like to see somebody who has some child care knowledge or maybe has worked in that industry. Um those are just a couple things that I jotted down that are missing from here. And if we leave it like it is, where it's just open-ended, you know, a college degree or a relevant ex I mean, I I appreciate that you know, we went in wrote in college degree required. I I I just I still don't think that fills the gap of what this role truly is and the type of person it's going to take to fill it. And and again, being given one day um and zero discussion um doesn't seem

052helpful in this situation. I was literally expecting uh more yellow lines to look at, not just and or relevant work experience. Um is [clears throat] it a change? Uh I guess it is, um but not much at all. Mr. Hughes, um could you address the the notion of um child care and the extent to which the job description includes or doesn't include any of that? So, as you know, we made the move towards GSRP. GSRP is um uh a pre-universal preschool. By the way, the governor has 30 million in her budget for this to continue. Uh we'll see what happens with the uh representatives and the senators. Um but uh we're getting out of we're phasing out of child care. So, child care is down to just a couple rooms at this point in time.

053So, we moved GSRP to the oversight of the assistant superintendent for curriculum instruction, as noted in the job descriptions delivered to the board on February 19th, by the way. Uh boo, nothing from anybody up until recently. So, the board has had these job descriptions in front of them uh with the ability to reach out and say, "Hey, could we add this? Hey, could we add that?" Um that nothing like that occurred over that time frame. So, we've got these. Um child care is much limited. We also have Jessica Panzienza over at the child care center that has the certifications to actually do all of the certification work, uh which uh we need to maintain the child care and the um latchkey. Also talked with our state legislators on Friday and and let them know that

054there is a problem with the latchkey certification because a building is good enough for the kids to come and show up every day and go to school there, but you have to have each building certified for latchkey. Uh it's the same children. And it doesn't make sense that wouldn't be great if we could have um a drop-off for all of our elementary schools instead of just two spots. Uh so, I and I know Representative Bowlin was really amenable to moving that forward to see what we can do there. But uh ultimately, it makes sense to move GSRP, universal preschool, ready for kindergarten, to the assistant superintendent oversight. And we're limiting our day care and eventually, hopefully, filled 51 building where we have no more day care there. It's all GSRP. Okay, thank you. Anyone else

055have comments? President Coleman, I have a question just to again, to try and move this forward and and tweak this if we need to. I would wonder as this was drafted by Mr. Hughes to Mr. Scott's points, which I think are certainly valid when there's millions of dollars being handled here for control cost, uh manage budget, grant writing. To his point, just writing those down as he was speaking, what within this job description and and requirements would satisfy that so we know that the person that he's going to choose is going to have that in mind as he makes his selection. Mr. Hughes, can you address that? So, I guess I got to squeeze summarize what you're asking. What in this job description affects uh revenue and child care, like grants? Is that what you're

056saying? Yeah, grants, but then again, if if millions of dollars are being handled here and possibly approved, as I understand it, by this person potentially, uh what within this then would cover any financial concerns we would have for can saying any kind of uh um management of any kind of budget or approvals of funds spending. So, if you look at policies, practices, and procedures, uh bullet number three, manage grants relevant to community education, senior center, and youth sports programs. Uh and bullet number three, four, five, six, oversee and prepare accounts and monetary deposits, as well as oversee the monthly credit card usage, evaluate effectiveness of meeting the goals annually, which are set with Rachel Boyce, for instance, for monetary goals. So, as you look through here, you can see a number of things that talk

057about making sure that, you know, things are in order. That is in the job description, not in the qualification. What I'm saying is the qualifications need to ensure we have somebody with experience in those item in those in those places. Like uh as Thompson said in the call to public, uh the current qualification as presented, anybody would qualify. And what we need to do as a board is set qualifications, pass them off to you so that you can find somebody who meets those qualifications. As it stands now, the only qual well, the qualification prior to an hour ago was that they have marketing experience and budgeting experience with All we've added is that they have a college degree or relevant work experience. Anybody who's ever applied for a job knows that there's always much stronger

058qualifications that you read through to decide if you fit or not. Um we need, as I said, somebody with leadership experience in in a relevant area, whether it's community educ- education, recreation programming, um facility operations, somebody with experience like that. We need to say, "Hey, this person has 5 years of experience with that or 3 years." Whatever it is. Um I think we need to say they have a certain amount of experience supervising staff. Of course, anybody who will apply, if you say, "Hey, do you think you could manage 200 part-timers?" Oh, yep. Yep. I want somebody who's done it. I want somebody who's been in the trenches. We're we're big enough as a district. This is not an experimental position. This is a position we need There's big shoes to fill, and we need

059somebody who can jump in and has the experience to hit the ground running. And just saying now now changing it to anybody with a college degree is qualified is laughable. N- not anybody with a college deg- college degree is is qualified. If they don't have the relevant experience, they don't have the oversight experience, they don't have the budget This is the CEO of a $3.5 million enterprise. That's how we need to look at filling this position. The other thing, too, um looking at the bullet points under, let's say, the category of policies, practices, and procedures, there's a difference between qualifications and job duties. Policies, practices, and procedures, these are job duties. They're not qualifications. Exactly. I'll say that when I spoke with Superintendent Hughes today, I recognized that I think this is little daunting to

060define what this job is because it's so broad, possibly more so than >> [clears throat] >> what we're going to review next. And I think that we're going to have a hard time coming up with what all the qualifications are should be or a mixture of qualifications because there there's so many factors to this. And I appreciate Superintendent Hughes' time today talking about this and and listening, but I think my assurance that it's going to be the right person is is through we have in place. And we have to give that superintendent, I feel, no matter who it is, the opportunity to hire the person that they think is going to best fit this job with all of this in mind. That's my assurance and not being involved in that hiring process and put and

061putting too much black and white on what that person exactly should be. I think it's just a mold of all of these things that have to be considered. And I think it's very difficult to really define that for what exactly that person is and and that's where I put that trust and then accountability in that person for Superintendent Hughes when the evaluations come around to see how uh the new hire will do when that time comes. Um thank you for saying that. Um I think one one step that that we're not discussing here is the interview process, is the screening process prior to the interviews, the actual interviews, the number of interviews that people participate in in order to even be considered for the final pool of applicants that would be considered for the job.

062So, I I I appreciate trying to make the job description or qualifications as specific as possible, but I think a lot of that information, a lot of those qualities, those characteristics, the experience, a lot of that comes out through the interview process with the the resume or other documentation that are provided with an application. Um and that's that's something that that that seems to be missing here from the conversation cuz you're talking about the job description and people applying, and then we're talking about all of a sudden there's somebody in that position. There's a whole lot of stuff that happens in between, and that's where Chuck and his team and the the say the committee that is put together to do any interviews um that that's a huge part of the process that that I

063think you're we're we're kind of glossing over. I I don't think so. I think um that's the whole point. This board has no interest in being involved in that process. That absolutely is the superintendent's domain. That's why we hire him to do that. But our job is to say, "This is what we're looking for. Go find the best person that has these these qualifications, can do these things." And as of right now, what's in front of us is just go find somebody with a college degree or relevant work experience. And so, that gives no direction. That is obfuscating our duty to set the bar. So, I I don't I'm not I have never sat here and said we should be involved in interviews or reference checks or any any of that. I have I have

064zero interest in being involved in that. That's why we have a superintendent. But we have the obligation to set the course, and he has the obligation to navigate it. Um right now, what we're doing is he's setting the course and asking us to rubber stamp it when he's halfway there. That's not how a board should operate. That is not a healthy board operating in that manner. We need to be part of setting that course. It needs to be a collective productive discussion going back to the the um strategic plan. Those kind of conversations about the future. That's what should be happening around these positions. We're going to have a lot of turnover in the central office. And for us as a board to just step aside, close our eyes, say, "Hope something good pops up."

065even though we have given given no direction is is absurd. So again, I have no interest in being in interviews or asking questions or or reading resumes, but we have to give direction. Thank you. Just quickly, perhaps last point. So again, during conversation with Superintendent Hughes, the conversation was if that closes, this job posting closes today before the meeting, uh what what relevance does this have with what we do today with this job description? And very good answer. I thought it was acceptable. Addressed it with the few board members that I spoke with before this meeting that whatever this approval is, uh it's going to be more stringent than what it was. We're we're putting uh the addition of the college degree. Like that or not, that that is supported by me. Um so, Mr.

066Gogoleski's point to keep it open for another week or two uh is not really going to open um the options for more candidates to apply. We're really narrowing that down to who can apply. So, conversation with Mr. Hughes, the point was made that once this is approved, if there is an approval today, he will then take this new approval of the job description, apply that to the candidates that applied before the posting ended today, and see who qualifies, and move forward with those qualified applicants if there are still any, and if not, then it will be reposted for a period of time. Well, Mr. Campbell, I >> [clears throat] >> just to clarify my position, it's not wanting to keep it open for another week to see who else may apply for it. It's doing

067it so that we don't have some legal landmines that we have to navigate. If there is an applicant that's maybe already applied for this, and let's say they don't get the position, but they want to make an issue with the fact that we we approved the job description after we've already solicited for for folks for potential employees, that that could be an issue, and that's why I bring it up. I'm not I'm not doing it to say, "Oh, let's see who else can throw their hat in the ring." I I'm I'm doing this because I I really feel that there could be a legal issue. Sure. No, good point. Something to consider, President Coleman, for Superintendent Hughes. When does this person need to be, you know, butt in seat? Mr. Hughes. Um we want this

068person to come in, if we can, uh before Carol leaves, maybe the month of June. So, you know, it gives us time. It gives them time to talk with their employers as well. I mean, it seems like there's a little bit of separation still, I think, with I'm not hearing unanimous opinions on on this. So, I you know, I almost wonder if we need to have a separate I know we don't want more meetings, but I think we we don't want to hurry up and pass something so we can find out what's in it, right? So, I think maybe we need to push this off. I'm in support of I'm in support of what's in front of us tonight. >> Cuz if I may finish my point, um I you know, that there's couple dates

069that have been thrown out there. Is it correct that we did get the job description on the 19th? I believe that is accurate. I don't dispute that. But I think the relevance to what Mr. Scott is saying is when we got it, we didn't know we had to sign off on it, right? So, there's a I think a a different set of eyes that goes into something when you think it's an FYI, here's a job description, versus you're going to be asked to approve this, and by the way, it's going to be Monday. So, I I think I think there's some relevance to both of the dates that are being thrown on there and why there's maybe some trepidation on the board. And again, my opinion is we we should postpone this. And I know

070I didn't make a motion, but I'm I Well, I I I want to ask you to clarify um to postpone the entire motion or to postpone the discussion or decision on one job description or the other? Are you taking them both together? I mean, we've only talked about community ed. So, for now, I'm just looking at that one. Cuz I think there's been a lot of good points made at the table, and I think we need to kind of like we do with policy, we need to look at it in a little more detail. Mhm. I like that idea. I look at this like you know, anybody who was at that strategic planning session last year, that was a I've said it a hundred times. That was a great day. Everybody everybody sat down in

071a room and and got creative and thought about long-term what's best for the district. If we would have, you know, if we could arrange something like that for to talk about these positions, so it's not just what are their duties, but where do we see the district 5 and 10 years? How do we create a role that's going to get us there in our top leadership? I mean, that would be so powerful for everybody at this table. So powerful for the community to see us coming together and working on a vision and saying, "Hey, we're Best case scenario, we're living with this person for 20 years, right? So why wouldn't we take our time and think through it and think what's best for the district and give the superintendent those those uh qualifications, etc., so

072he can find a person that matches our vision. Um so I would definitely support taking a a time out from from what's in front of us today and uh taking a much more a measured approach uh that's going to help move this district forward rather than continue to uh fuel frustrations and the uh I'll leave it at that, frustrations. Very quick question. Very quick. Um was the current director um >> [snorts] >> asked regarding qualifications what the current director feels would be appropriate? Was there any input given by the current one? Mr. Hughes. No, Carol's back here. Absolutely, Carol was involved in the development of this whole process and making sure that it covered everything that she currently is responsible for, as well as [clears throat] Mr. Minsker was instrumental in helping us put together

073the assistant superintendent job description, again, that you received 24 days ago. Okay. >> [sighs] >> Um I have a question. I'm just try I'm struggling at how to put words around it. Um Mr. Hughes, so how how would it affect the hiring process if one or both of these decisions were postponed in order to allow for be it a committee of the whole or a subcommittee to carry on further discussion. How I mean you you mentioned that um we'd like somebody in place for the month of June for the community ed position. Um we haven't talked about the assistant superintendent C&I position, but how would this affect timing and the process that that you need to follow? First thing I do tomorrow is I'd email every candidate to say the board has scrubbed their the

074job description, it no longer exists, and uh feel free to um apply at a later date. That's the first thing I'd do because we have posted it. I sent you all the posting as well on February uh 19th, and if you recall, I asked specifically at that meeting, "Does this apply to the um the the motion the resolution that was adopted for the curriculum uh position did not uh according to the board was not meant towards this position. So I took that as, "Here's the posting, here's the job description you asked us to put together. If you have any questions, let me know. This is when I'm posting it." So I posted it all in good faith based on our conversation at the last meeting. So I think to be fair to the candidates that

075have applied, I would need to let them know that last night the board wants me to start over, so that's what we're going to do. Uh look for a posting at a later date. That's what I'd need to do. To be fair, the email would say, "I put this posting out before I got the board's approval." I disagree, but thank you. Well, the attorneys would agree with that. The board has not approved that job before the posting went up. It was brought up at the February 16th meeting, and the legal opinion was dated the request for legal opinion, which you were copied on, was dated February 18th. >> Point of order, Mr. President Coleman. >> What's the point? Mr. Scott, this is the seventh time he has spoken under this motion. All right. That's Point

076is well taken. Um Mr. Scott, I I understand your um we've had a conversation about this. I I I hear where you're coming from, and I and I appreciate you sharing your views. Um It >> [clears throat] >> If you have a final thought that you would like to if you want to wrap up what you were just saying, I'll permit that. I I think I finished. The The board has not approved the job was posted prior to board approval of the job description. The job was posted after a legal opinion was requested. I It's pretty straightforward for for someone to insinuate that the board changed course or quote unquote scrubbed the position is incorrect. The position was posted not in continuity with state statute. All right, point me. Thank you. Um so Mr. Hughes,

077with that the timing then I mean work this backwards for me. So if we need somebody in the seat June 1st we need to post it, say if we're going to post the job again um typically it's 2 weeks, but obviously the resolution that we had passed for the assistant curriculum position or assistant superintendent position said 30 days, but if we So if we if we go for the additional 30 days, that's reposting at the beginning of May. And we've we're currently almost at the end of March. So I mean I'm just I'm struggling with feasibility given time constraints. That's why I'm trying to figure out a timeline. I think you have our thoughts as administrators, you have my thoughts as a superintendent. Um if the board does not choose to adopt these tonight, that's

078your choice. You can then make the timeline, and we'll go from there. Okay, thank you. Um one more question regarding the assistant superintendent position. Um that has not been posted yet, correct? Correct. Okay. And um what is the timeline on when that will likely be posted? I was going to wait until uh April 13th, I believe is what I sent you on February 19th. Uh at this point in time, if these get approved, I think the sooner the better. So um I know that other school districts are now posting for these types of positions, and so we don't want to miss those good candidates, so probably the sooner the better. Thank you. I'd like to move to postpone approval of these job descriptions to the April 6th special meeting. Second. Okay, motion on the table

079to postpone item 2A, job descriptions, director of community education and assistant superintendent of curriculum and instruction, to the April 6th special meeting. And that was brought forward by Mr. Keller, supported by Mr. Gogoleski. Yes. Thank you. Any discussion on the motion to postpone this agenda item? Mr. Campbell, no? Oh, I see. >> No, ready to vote. Sorry, ma'am. Okay. I'm just ahead of you, excited. Okay. >> [clears throat] >> Hearing no discussion, this is a motion to postpone item 2A job descriptions for those two positions. Postponing to April 6th, 2026 special meeting. Brought forward by Mr. Keller, supported by Mr. Gogoleski. Mr. Gogoleski. Well, in the uh spirit of making sure we don't get ourselves in a legal hot water, uh I'm voting yes. Mr. Campbell. No. Mrs. Shaw. No. Mr. Keller. Yes. Mr. Scott.

080>> Yes. Ms. Custodio. No. I'm a no. >> [clears throat] >> Motion does not carry. Okay, so we still have the original motion on the table in front of us, job descriptions for the community ed and assistant superintendent positions. Is there any further discussion? Just real quick uh to Mr. Gogoleski's point and to your earlier point, I was confused on that, so thank you for clarifying, but to avoid any concerns should this pass, is that something we'll task to Mr. uh Superintendent Hughes to make sure there will be no legal problem should it pass and any applicants are disqualified if it's uh contrary to the posting that they applied for? Yes, Mr. Hughes, um if [snorts] you would be able to follow up um I'm assuming uh Theron would be >> [snorts] >> who we

081would need to talk to to see if there would be any potential issues there. Yes, I will talk with Theron tomorrow. Okay, thank you. I move to amend the motion uh to to amend the job description to include the following language under qualifications. Minimum 5 years of leadership experience in community education, {comma} recreation programming, {comma} adult/youth enrichment, {comma} facility operations, comma, or similar revenue generating programs, including at least three years in a supervisory role managing budgets and large part-time or seasonal staff. I'm going to ask you to read that again. I'm not trying to write it all down. I just want to make sure I absorb it because >> And I can provide it in writing, but it is again minimum five years of leadership experience in community education, recreation programming, adult {slash} youth enrichment,

082facility operations, or similar revenue generating programs, including at least three years in a supervisory role managing budgets and large part-time or seasonal staff. And obviously this amendment applies only to the community ed position. >> Correct. Yes, that's what's on the table. Correct. >> Well, they're both together in the same motion. Uh then that would be to the community ed position. Yes. Mr. Hughes, um could you or someone from your team maybe address the notion of having something that specific? Um I'm I'm not a human resources person, so I'm not familiar with how that should be. I think there's a lot to go into that conversation. Uh however, um I'm I'm thinking about experience. I'm thinking about the experience that we have. I'm thinking about Carol Hayes when she took over for Michelle Otis, and she

083may not have had all of the same experiences that Mr. Scott just read off. Um Kate and I had a good conversation today, Kate, about, you know, the focus of many on this board is career tech education, and the idea that we want to let people know that you can do a really good job. You can make your way through the system if you work hard and do what you're supposed to do, and there's opportunity. I think about my best friend who started as a broom pusher in his business, and he now manages two uh facilities uh without a college degree. Uh I think a college degree is great, but a college degree in what in this case? You know, a college degree in um coaching of sports? Maybe that exists. I can tell you

084it does exist cuz I I've seen that. Um does that mean that they are qualified to do the work that we're asking them to do? Um how many years of experience? How many years of leadership? How many principals in our district were principals before they became principals? I'll tell you, some were not, and they're doing a really good job. So, um you know, go back to that CTE focus. We're telling people you don't have to have a college degree, and you can do really well. But now we have a a conflict here because now we have the board saying in this particular position that doesn't necessarily require a college degree, it requires experience, relationship building, um marketing, creativity, openness, all the things that we'll look for in the interview process, but hey, don't apply. You

085don't even have a chance to apply because no matter how hard you worked, it doesn't really matter. This is why we created the job description as we created it and forwarded it to the board because we believe there are people out there that we might not be able to get to apply if it says you have to have X. So, I think that's way too much. I think that's too convoluted. I think that you pigeonhole yourself, and hey, at the end of the day, if the board wants to adopt that kind of a language on this, we'll we'll try to find somebody that fits it. Mr. Hughes, I I I have to say I I do agree with you. I do. But this also highlights the importance of making sure that we've got something a

086little meatier in the qualification section. I uh I don't put much stock in uh certain uh degrees for doing certain types of jobs. I I do think though that to say that you have to have some level of experience or even understanding of some of these complexities that are part of this job. I I I agree about getting too specific in terms of education. I do. I get that, but something a little bit meatier in the qualification section, which is what we've been talking about for the last half hour, I think that that highlights the problem in in having something as simple as what we have here. I think Mrs. Coleman said it really well. The interview process, the conversations that will occur in the interview process, will ferret out those individuals that have the

087skills that we feel are going to fit and work well with the Hartland culture and in the Hartland community. And that's who we will send to the board as a recommendation, and at that point in time, if indeed it all works out, the board will be happy with the candidate in front of them, or the board will say, "Nope, we're not happy. Start over." I don't really want to to tell you to go back to the drawing board. I'd rather get somebody come through the first time that we all agree um can do the job. We are a large district. We're a top district in the state. This is a large component of what we do. No offense, we can't get somebody in here with no experience and just train them up. That's not the

088kind of role for that. Again, we are filling this is the CEO of a three and a half, four million dollar company. No company would put out a job description for their CEO that said, "Throw me your resume, and I'll see what I can do." Um and and certainly not in a public setting. That is just us abdicating all of our responsibility and duties to you. That this is not the place to do that. Uh I'm just trying to come up with some language that can push through the fact that we need somebody with some valid experience in here. I didn't come up with college degree part that uh you Everything you said supports my motion, Mr. Hughes. Um that we need somebody with with experience in in real life. Proven. All right. Mr. Kelly,

089you have something? No. Okay. All right. Is there any further discussion on the motion to amend? Yes, ma'am. So, I It's frustrating we sit here and talk and try to come up with what this means for 30 minutes, and then you have a polished sentence of things that I can't even keep up to write down. It's It's five years of experience with a few different things and three years of experience with a few other things. It's It's just the surprises at the table are very frustrating. And if you if you came up with that while we sat here during conversation, then well done. Oh, I didn't. I have it I have it prepared. I've been working on this. >> think for a second that you did come up with it while we sit here at

090the table during conversation. So, again, we're here to try to make this happen. So, right before we get to vote, if you say, "Oh, hey everybody, I have an amendment, and this is really good polished sentence." Like that would've been awesome to see at 11:00 this morning when you and I had that phone conversation. >> It'll I I was working >> let's try to get this going. I was working on this all week after we got that legal opinion at 4:00 on Friday, I started working on this. After you and I had a conversation this morning, I stopped working on it because my understanding was we were coming in to a revised job description. Now, that revised job description just added college degree or relevant or or experience or or whatever the vague Because you

091shared nothing. So, that's what we came up with. We talked yesterday, Jeff. Like share this. Like that's how we come up with these good things to do. >> all of those things. Why Why are we being asked on a Monday to hurry up and come up with this I'm sorry, on a Friday to hurry up and come up with it by Monday. I I don't think we should be put in that position to begin with. Okay. Points made. Anything else, Mr. Campbell? Nothing. Nothing. Yeah, I I Sorry, one thing. I don't want to be Monday night quarterback here, but it's, you know, we've we're still on 2A. We've got a lot of stuff to go through. I think for future, this should be a discussion item first, not an action item because this is This

092is what happens. This is why we try to have the policy meetings. And again, this is why I tried to propose that we table this for now, meet in subcommittees or committee of the whole, and we could more collaboratively come to some type of solution that I think will would have passed 7 to 0. As it stands today, it's it It will likely pass is my prediction, but I don't think it will be unanimous. If if this was a discussion item first, we would've been collaborative instead of instead of oppositional. This was not a collaborative approach. This was a month of telling the board they had no business in this subject, and then at the 11th hour pulling the switcheroo. >> Mr. Scott, points made. Points made. Thank you. Um And Mr. Keller, I hear

093your point, too. And I and I I believe that the decision was made to add this to the agenda as an action item due to the time constraints. And due to the fact that yes, like I said earlier, the cart before the horse, right? It's like we were trying to essentially, I guess, make right. Trying to put these put the job descriptions in place with a with an approval from the board in a in a more timely fashion. As timely as we could be. So, putting it on as a discussion item for this, then obviously for this meeting, then waiting another month to put it on for a decision item. I follow what you're saying and I agree that yeah, it would give us that more opportunity to have the discussion, etc. Given the time

094constraints, this was this seemed the best approach. Is it the best for the students? Is it best for the community? Are we carrying out our duty? That is the question. Not can we hurry up and fix a mistake so that we can move on? And I don't think anybody asked that question. Well, we should ask that question. >> any other pertinent discussion? >> [clears throat] >> We have an ethical obligation to ask that question to ourselves and to each other with every item we vote on. Okay, thank you. Any other discussion on the item? If we are to move forward with the motion that was brought forward by Mr. Scott, it has not been seconded. I need a second for the for the motion to amend. Looks like that motion goes away. Without a second,

095we will not vote on it. So, we are back to the original motion on the table. Item 2A, job descriptions for the community ed and assistant superintendent positions. This was originally brought forward by Mrs. Shaw, supported by Mr. Campbell. Is there any final discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Gogoleski. No. Mr. Campbell. Yes. Mrs. Shaw. Yes. Mr. Keller. No. Mr. Scott. No. Ms. Custodio. Yes. I am a yes. Motion carries. Moving on to item 2B, new and revised policies 1410 and 1410.01. I move that the Board of Education, upon the recommendation of the superintendent, adopts revised policies 1410, administrative salary structure, and 1410.01, compensation and longevity schedule, as presented. Support. Thank you. Motion by Mrs. Shaw, supported by I heard Ms. Custodio first. Any discussion on the motion? Actually, Mr. Hughes, would you just provide again just

096a little bit of context here? Yeah, um as you know, 14 uh 1410 covers all administrators not within um the administrator uh association. 1410.01 covers all um um uh all directors and other non-affiliated groups uh individuals that work within the district. And so, both these policies are updated pretty regularly. Probably come to you more often you want to see them uh whenever there are changes. Um these policies reflect the changes that we adopted with the ROM extension of the HCSAA uh HCSAA contract. So, it just puts everything in order to make sure it's uh fair across the board. Thank you. Any comments or discussion? I have a quick question. Is there a reason that the actual contracts were not included in the board package? That historically, it's always been included. Mr. Hughes. Uh actually, historically,

097we um have provided the board when asked for a um a non-filled-in contract, which I think I sent it out to the all the board members. You guys have seen that, but we don't normally have it in the board packet. Yeah, I'm I guess I'm asking more on uh for two reasons. Uh one, so the community can see see the contracts in advance. And two, there were a couple different versions, and I believe these are new contracts. New new forms. Um it was just a minor change to the uh 1410.01 contract. 1410 contracts 1401 uh 1410.01 don't uh receive individual employee contracts. 1400 1410 do. And the change was to ensure there was not a conflict per what you brought up in the past. And I think I sent that to you to verify for

098you that there wasn't a conflict in the language. Yeah, it just looked different that with there were more differences than just that wording. That's what I was confused by. So, uh so that HCS so uh the only how many who can you say who's signing who's not signing the HCSAA contract? Yep, that would be that would be the assistant superintendents and CFO, the director of um student services, which we don't have right now, and the director of technology, and the director of community education. Those are the five people left in this policy at the as it stands. And the HCSAA contract does not allow uh you as a superintendent to move uh HCSAA member to the central office without board approval, correct? Correct. All right, thank you. Thank you. Any further discussion? Hearing none, motion

099on the table is new and revised policies 1410 and 1410.01, brought by Mrs. Shaw, supported by Ms. Custodio. Mr. Gogoleski. Yes. Mr. Campbell. Yes. Mrs. Shaw. Yes. Mr. Keller. Yes. Mr. Scott. Yes. Ms. Custodio. Yes. I am a yes. Motion carries. Item 2C, administrator contract extensions. I move that the Board of Education, upon the recommendation of the superintendent, approves extending administrator contracts 1 year, effective July 1st, 2026 through June 30th, 2029 for Rachel Boys, Kate Gregory, Scott Usher, James Fitzgerald, Jessica Goss, Patrick Borg, Brian Hassler, JD Wheeler, Nicole Connolly, Tony Howerton, Chris Janvier, Crystal Brisky, Tom Yurk, Misty Gone, Melissa Frazier, Dottie Hatton, and Jason Reck. Support. Okay, motion from Mrs. Shaw, supported by Mr. Keller. Any discussion on the motion? Hearing none. Again, this is administrator contract extensions, brought forward by Mrs. Shaw, supported

100by Mr. Keller. Mr. Gogoleski. Yes. Mr. Campbell. Yes. Mrs. Shaw. Yes. Mr. Keller. Yes. Mr. Scott. Yes. >> I am a yes. Motion carries. Yeah. Congratulations [applause] and thank you. Thank you for all you do. You guys don't stick around. You got to get home and get up in the morning. I appreciate you being here and I appreciate the board um rolling those contracts. Thank you. Okay, moving on to item 2D, pool stairs renovation. I move that the Board of Education, upon the recommendation of the superintendent and the director of operations, approve the pool stair renovation, as presented. >> Support. Okay, motion by Mr. Campbell, supported by Mr. Keller. Um Mr. Keller, as you had mentioned um earlier, you were able to meet with Mr. Marino and Mrs. Hayes at the pool. Um thank you

101for sharing the photo from that meeting. Um is there anything else that you'd like to share regarding that meeting? Um yeah, sure. Uh as the photos, I think, did a pretty good job of uh illustrating these stairs are pretty rough shape. Um definitely agree that, you know, something needs to be done. Um you know, I potentially, I wonder if we need to disclose them until they get fixed because uh you know, there was a lot of concerns that I had. And I think again, those pictures hopefully demonstrated to all of you, in case you weren't able to make it out there. Um again, I think something has to be done. I still look at it as a very expensive project. You know, for every person in Hartland that votes, it's seven bucks you're ponying up

102to fix these stairs. So, it's [clears throat] a it is a big ask, but I do um do think it's something we need to move forward with. I think uh Ms. Boys was able to confirm that you know, in general, community ed, which not to belabor the job description conversation that we had earlier, it you know, things like this fit into that person's budget. So, this is important. And I think that the fact is that they are still actually generating net profit from, you know, all the great things that happen and, you know, with the community events that um happen every day and, you know, with um Carl Hayes' leadership, you know, we're able to still pay for things like this. And also, obviously, from Rachel working her magic with the with the numbers. So,

103you know, I obviously am am Again, I don't like the number, but I know it is the number and there's it I want to acknowledge Matt and then the team for all the work that they put in to try to make it a smaller number. So, again, thanks for your efforts to do that. And um you know, I'm I'm in favor of moving ahead with this. Thank you, Mr. Keller. Yeah, I I agree that um I'm not really loving the investment that's required for the upkeep, but I understand that um it's necessary and that Matt and his team have put in a lot of work um to get that number down over the years. Um we've seen the number much higher depending on the bid. Um and obviously the pool and all the facilities there

104including the slide are valuable to the community. Um it perceived value and actual value. So, it's um yeah, it's it's an important um process that needs to be fulfilled, I think. Anything else? Uh to Mr. Keller's question, I don't know if we can get an answer, but is is is the slide still in operation? Are we going to close it immediately based on condition so that we can get this done? I guess I I I too support the work. I'm more my my issue is more concerned about liability between now and then. Yep, so we do look at safety. Um we have had a structural engineer look at the slides or the um structure and it is sound. They have signed off that it is a uh sound structure. >> I'm thinking more No, no,

105I didn't interrupt, but I'm thinking more about the the rust and the sharp edges. >> going to get to that. So, um the pool evaluates the slide after every use and before every use. Um there are times where they have shut down the slide to allow maintenance to come in and do grinding and caulking and cleaning up of the the rust. Um so, that has been happening ongoing. Um we are roughly 2 years past where we should be, obviously, due to bidding issues. Um so, that's something we continue to look at on a daily basis. Uh Carol Hayes uh and her staff and Jamie and his staff look at that slide to make sure it's um meeting the requirements. So, we'll continue to do that or we'll look at shutting it down until the renovation

106is complete. Does the health department look at those stairs? We do have an annual inspection that we do partake in, yes. But but is that part of their inspection or are they They walk the entire site. So, I can't speak to particulars like direct, but they do walk the site, inspect locker rooms, inspect the pool deck, inspect the water quality, all those things, correct. It's a full facility assessment. Yeah. One other question, Mr. Marino. If we go ahead and spend the money for this, which I think we should, um are we going to get anything different or is this just a simple replacement and then 10 years down the road, 7 years down the road, 5 years down the road, we start to see flakes of rust and issues and So, so what what they're

107what's currently there is a pan where the water sits and that was I wasn't around at the time when the high school was built, but that was a, you know, not a great design. So, water was just sitting on those pans creating rust, creating um uh uh deterioration, that type of thing. What we're doing is we're stripping that pan off and we're putting a flat piece of steel with a rubber uh plastic tread that allows the water to move off of that spit um tread. And so, water won't be able to collect on each step. So, it's still a metal structure. If you look at structures that are built today, they're concrete. If you go to a Great Wolf Lodge or whatever else, they they use concrete. Unfortunately, we have to work with what we

108have. Um talking with the the painter as well as the uh fabricator, they're saying, you know, probably not in your lifetime will you have to replace this again. Um that's the hope. So, hopefully we can get another 15 20 years out of it. Ooh, I I would hope so because I kind of look at that, especially with the pictures that Mr. Keller took. You know, it's like looking at uh the Mackinac Bridge. They're constantly repainting that thing. Once they get done with one side, they start painting the other over. And is there going to be any kind of additional preventive maintenance done on the new um the new item that that's coming in? Are we going to be a little bit more proactive to kind of ensure that we keep it Yeah, so looking good?

109Carol and I were just talking about that uh before the meeting, but basically the lifeguards and the the uh pool staff will have to wash down the structure after every use to uh get the chemical residue off the the metal. So, it's just kind of a preventive maintenance thing that we're going to put on uh her staff, unfortunately, but it's just a necessary situation. Um going back to the painting, um what we are using is a marine grade epoxy um which is for this type of um application. It um timeline? So, timeline um talking with the contractors, uh well, are you talking timeline or schedule? So, I guess they're the same, but um we've been talking with the the contractor to figure out when it could fit in their scope of work. I still have

110to review that with Carol and her staff in terms of programming cuz we want to be able to maximize the pool. Um we're thinking uh July uh into August a little bit. Um one of the things that, you know, talking with her is uh looking at the overall uh environment to say, "Okay, um part of this quote is for the contractor to cover or protect the um slide area so they can do the work so it's not, you know, migrating into the pool environment, that type situation. [clears throat] Um so, she could still run her events at night. So, basically, we do some of the dirty work during the day from a 7:00 to 3:00 um on that side um of the pool, she could still be open at night to allow revenue streams and

111things like that for her. Um there's a few days that it will be noisy where we're unbolting the the steps and cutting treads and things like that. So, roughly 3 to 4 days for that work um in the beginning and then probably about 7 days at the end to put them back in, put pour all the concrete back, that type situation. While the treads are offsite being um fabricated, the painter will come in and start doing painting for about 2 2 and 1/2 weeks. It's kind of the idea. And and you think those stairs are safe as is between now and July? I'm never going to say everything's safe. Um at the end of the day, we evaluate on a daily basis. If we feel the need that it's unsafe or not uh conducive to

112using the pool, we will shut them down. But structurally, it is a structure. >> You know, I don't I don't mean structurally. I just I understand. I put We make sure no one wants to cut their foot I wouldn't walk up it and I wouldn't want my kids walking up it. Definitely. Exactly. Yeah, looking at the pictures that Mr. Keller took at I I was kind of blown away. They seem to be a little bit more uh extreme than I originally thought and as a parent, I would not want my kid walking on anything like that. So, um hopefully between now and when we get it replaced, if there's something that we can do to kind of put a a simple patch to ensure that people's feet are safe. We can do that. And yeah

113the other concern like parents when their kid says, "Hey, can I go down the water slide?" Generally, it's not the parents going with them, so they don't know. If the parents saw that, they would probably say, "No, we're not going up." The kids don't think about it or don't care, but um yeah. Okay, thank you, Mr. Marino. Appreciate it. Any further discussion on the motion? Okay, the motion [clears throat] that we have before us is pool stairs renovation brought forward by Mr. Campbell, supported by Mr. Keller. Mr. Gogoleski. Yes. Mr. Campbell. Yes. Mrs. Shaw. >> Yes. Mr. Keller. Yes. Mr. Scott. >> Yes. Ms. [clears throat] Custodio. >> Yes. I'm a yes. Motion carries. Item 2E, superintendent salary schedule. I move that the Board of Education, upon the recommendation of the Chief Financial Officer, approves

114an addendum to the Superintendent's contract to include the Superintendent's salary schedule as presented. Support. Okay, motion by Mrs. Shaw, supported by Mr. Campbell. Um I guess I I have a little bit of context that I can provide. Um there's some information that Mr. Hughes had shared with the board in a couple different communications um to explain the background of of the the purpose behind this. Um as I understand it, um the salary schedule is relatively new ORS expectation um based on a recent court case appeal or decision um that and this the schedule should be in place prior to a Superintendent's retire retirement. This is something that um MASA actually advises that is to be done annually with a contract rollover. Um as you may recall, Mr. Hughes did not request a rollover extension um

115after his evaluation last June. Um so, at that time, we did not have the opportunity to be able to incorporate this as an addendum to his contract. Um the other superintendents here in Livingston County have implemented this um with their most recent contract renewals, as I understand it, and those contracts now include the schedule as an addendum. Um in addition, our um all of our other um administrators in the district do have a salary schedule approved by the board per the ORS expectation. The HCSAA contract and policy 1410 obviously that we just approved. All of that covers their salary schedules. But there is nothing in place currently officially in Mr. Hughes' contract today. Um, as an alternative to approving the schedule here today, obviously we'll hear some discussion about that and see where we want

116to pursue. Mr. Hughes could request a renewal of his contract and we can add and add it as add it as an addendum at that time with a contract renewal. Um, but regardless of how it's implemented, it's still an ORS expectation that this is in place and approved by the board. Um, I know that Mr. Keller had met with Mr. Hughes and Mrs. Boyse recently to review the numbers to to review the schedule. So I don't know if there's anything that you would want to share from what you had learned from your conversations with them or if there's somebody else who wants to open up discussion. I I mean Sure, thank you. Bottom line is um You may recall and I think I even put the numbers in there ORS had arbitrarily stated years ago

117that the maximum increase in the superintendent salary could be only itemized to be 3.56% when calculating retirement costs and retirement benefits. Um, that was only at the time for superintendents because there was a time frame years ago where districts were spiking supposedly superintendents contracts at the end of their time frame. And so ORS said hey arbitrarily we're only going to give you credit for 3.56% each year. That was taken to court. There was a lawsuit and you've got that as you said Chris Kristen that was just recently settled that started in 2019 thus you see on the schedule notation schedule each the salary schedule created. The associations for supervisors and administrators recommends that this be added to every contract as an addendum because it's going to be required upon retirement anyway. And like I said

118I I did I reach out to all the superintendents in Livingston County and they all have this added to their contracts as an addendum. It's just a factual sheet. Rachel Boyse our CFO provided the numbers. I had nothing I asked Rachel to do this. She provided it. Mr. Keller you came in. You sat with me. I think you had a chance to go over to Rachel's office afterwards and talk with her. And we went over Mr. Keller you went over all my contracts to make sure the numbers were correct. So this is just a factual sheet of what it is and then next year's numbers are simply what would happen if my evaluation at the end of the year meets the criteria to move forward. Obviously if my you're not approving anything that's going to

119automatically happen still because the contract calls for me having to hit those benchmarks to to hit these numbers. So it's just showing what that schedule is. I hope that I've explained it well. Mr. Keller I don't know if you want to add to that. No, nothing nothing that I necessarily would like to add though um in terms of our conversation I when we discussed this I thought that the what's listed in the 2019-2020 the sale schedule created I think that that's a little confusing and I was hoping that that was going to be removed in the version for today. Cuz again, you know, it to me gives the perception that we've created this document in 2019-2020 and I don't think that's what you're intending it to say. So I think it again for sake of

120clarity should be pulled out of there and replaced with I think Rachel gave me the percentage it was 2.7 or thereabouts. So I think again that should be included in there. Mr. Hughes could you or Mrs. Boyse could you explain what that means? Um, this is kind of a rolling document that was just kind of created there back at that time. We used to use what's called a formula and we've kind of started to get away from that. It was just a personal note honestly about you know what we were kind of doing that year. The number is 1.7549. So if it makes everyone feel better we can certainly put that in there for the copy that you need to have on file. Thank you. I appreciate that. Any other questions Mr. Keller? No. No,

121not on that table. No. Okay. Any other comments? Yeah, so I went down rabbit hole this afternoon on this one. Um I've had conversations with with most board members about it and and I asked everyone what the purpose of this was and I didn't really get any firm understanding. So this afternoon I did some research. I read the um the Michigan Supreme Court decision and all the ORS questions and answers. To be honest I don't believe this will satisfy ORS. I don't think it fits what they're looking for. Um, I think we need to go I I think I agree it needs to be done to make sure that Superintendent Hughes gets everything he's entitled to at retirement. But there's three main reasons that this doesn't fit what ORS is looking for and I can

122kind of summarize those. Um To to address something that was previously said somebody said where it says salary schedule created 2019 that's that's not accurate. The salary schedule has always been required by ORS. What happened in 2019 well frankly superintendents just generally did not have one. The salary schedule is created mostly for administrators, for teachers, for support staff. But because superintendents are individually bargaining they generally didn't have a salary schedule. So that is what went to court. The super retiring superintendents sued ORS because ORS was making the numbers up essentially saying we're going to limit it at 3 and a half percent whatever the number is. So the suit the superintendents won. Ultimately after going all the way to the Supreme Court the superintendents won and it was determined that no ORS cannot set this

123arbitrary limit. There has to be there has to be something in place. But what that Supreme Court ruling did and if you read it's a 45 page ruling and it accomplishes one thing. And that is to define what the term salary schedule means specifically as it refers to a superintendent. So I'll read from that opinion. In doing so we define the term normal salary schedule as number one a written document. Number two established by statute or approved approved by a reporting units governing body. That's us. The reporting unit is the district. We are the governing body. Number three that indicates the time and sequence of compensation and four conforms to a norm rule or principle i.e. it applies to generally applicable job classification rather than to a specific employee. So as silly as this may

124sound the fact that Chuck Hughes' name is at the top of this is going to be a disqualifier for ORS. This should say superintendent salary schedule. And I've got Dr. Huberts here in front of me this part of his contract and it says appendix A superintendent salary schedule. It doesn't say super it doesn't say Dr. Hughes. Or I'm sorry Dr. Hubert. Another one I could find in a quick search was from Chelsea. Again the superintendent's contract has a superintendent salary schedule attached to it appendix A. It's labeled superintendent salary schedule. So part of this ruling was very specific that the salary schedule again applied to the position not to the person. And so they're going to want to see something again it sounds silly they're going to see something that this is what the superintendent

125makes. Just like when we put when we passed the policies we passed today did not have names attached to them. 14 does not put into policy this this administrator's name and and the salary. It just says anybody who falls in this calorie this category here's their salary schedule. When they retire they will use that policy as their as with the ORS. Mr. Hughes doesn't have that. So he needs to put together the salary schedule. So number one it needs to say superintendent salary schedule. Number two it can only be forward looking not retroactive. And here's from ORS um they have a FAQ section on their website specifically about this whole lawsuit. Um so, a couple messages of note. Uh one of the FAQs, "Do salary schedules need to be formally established as an appendix in

126a contract?" No. That's not a requirement. Actually, what they recommend is that the salary schedules are in the same format for a superintendent as they are for any other administrator. So, the correct thing to do would be to put it in the policy just like we do for everyone else. Can they be in the contract? Absolutely. As as we said, that's what a lot of superintendents have done. Um and that's actually the next question. "Is it acceptable to have the salary schedule in every con- in a contract?" Yes, acceptable as long as the wages follow the salary schedule. Now, the next question, "Will ORS accept retroactive salary schedules created to reflect the compensation that was paid for the years in question?" No. Salary schedules must be in place before the compensation was earned. So, this

127salary schedule needs to be forward-looking, uh not backwards-looking. And there's a couple of other FAQs that deal with that. Um so, that would be the number two thing of why this does not fit within the ORS. And again, we can look at the LESA and the Chelsea superintendent contracts. And uh Chelsea starts with the current year and is forward-looking. Uh Dr. Hubert, he has his current year highlighted uh and he has the future years. He does have two past years, but um but it's it's forward-looking, not retroactive. Um I won't bore you with all of the answers through here, but the other item that um that would disqualify this from being accepted by ORS is it covers two job classifications. It has a superintendent and the director of uh curriculum and instruction as it goes

128back to 2016 when Mr. Hughes held that position. So, that would clearly establish to ORS that this has nothing to do with the job classification, it only has to do with an individual. And again, that's the problem with um with with why the ORS wouldn't accept it. Now, um does this Is it best practice to put this in place? Absolutely. Is it the end of the world if it's not in place? No. What happens is the ORS will ask for uh salary schedule of another similar position. Not to be used for the wages, but for the wage increase. So, in our case, we could say, "Okay, here's policy 141410, whatever, that shows our wage increases over the last 3 years." And so, he would get credit for those wage increases. Now, obviously, his pay has

129gone up I I believe at a faster percentage than those. So, they do offer another option, which is that you can submit the salary schedule of a superintendent who has a similar job, similar role, similar responsibility. So, if we were in a position where we, you know, this didn't exist and he decided to retire tomorrow, he would absolutely be protected because he could use any of those with ORS and they would accept them. Now, that being said, I think we definitely do need to formalize this. I would just hate to formalize it in this format where it would be kicked back and then um you know, it could be kicked back now, it could be kicked back years from now, when he goes, whatever the the case is. So, I personally would rather us um

130put this in a format that we know will be acceptable to the ORS, preferably in policy, but if it's a, you know, if it's part of a contract, it's part of a contract. I think we just need to do a little more research on this. Go ahead, Mr. Shaw. Um you've said a lot and you are not a retirement or a ORS expert. This is Mr. Hughes, you know, our superintendent that we're talking about. You know, whatever we decide to do tonight, but I don't think we should put this in the hands of Mr. Scott because we're talking about our superintendent's retirement, right? So, um I know, you know, again, you've re- you're reading all these things and you haven't shared any of that with any of us. I don't know if you've verified it

131with Mr. Hughes or with Mrs. Boys and but, you know, again, for us to have all of this put on us now to make these changes right here, right? It frankly, it's it's too much. So, you know, I don't know. I would love to hear what Mr. Hughes, you know, would like to do since this is your contract and this is your retirement. Um do you know I mean, can you verify or confirm or do we need to do some more research on all of these things to make sure that what we're going to include in your contract is correct and Mr. Hughes. I'm comfortable with approving this tonight. Um I'm so happy that Mr. Scott feels so inclined to protect me, so that's a good thing. Um and so, um what I think I

132would suggest is that you adopt this and then come July when I ask for my contract extension, then we will uh add the latest version at that point in time in there. Couple of things, this is one forward-thinking because it does have next year's on it, so I'm good with that. Number two, uh certainly can cross off Chuck Hughes and put salary schedule uh superintendent salary schedule. Um and then uh uh and I heard Mr. uh Keller ask us to take out the uh word verbage under formula increase and we'll put 1.7549. And I'm comfortable with this. And it's a start. It's it's better than having nothing. Uh if I were to get sick tomorrow and had to retire, at least it's in play and we've got something to start with. The the Sorry, the

133information from Mr. Scott leads me to a question that I didn't ask you when we met. But was this approved by Thrun or reviewed at all by Thrun? No, I didn't ask Thrun to review it. I simply am going by on guidance from the Michigan Association of Supervisors and Administrators. Well, so what other thing too, it just it sounds like >> [clears throat] >> the intent here is is kind of doing you a little bit of a favor, Mr. Hughes. Um just to make sure that everything is in order. I I I don't think there's any intent here of trying to you know, do anything uh to the contrary. And because so much information is available, it's not like we, you know, it have to have on the board a retirement specialist. I think a

134lot of these things are put out on the internet with, as Mr. Scott said, FAQs and all kinds of things. I think it would just be behoove you to maybe take a second look at it. I agree I I appreciate that. Again, on this document, we'll cross off Chuck Hughes and put superintendent salary schedule. I feel confident that everything else is good. I don't have a problem with it. Um and then come July when the uh evaluation is done and I ask for my contract renewal, if uh MASA tells me, "Hey, you might want to adjust this and that," uh then we can do that at the time, but this at least makes me feel like I at least have something in play as all the other superintendents do. And if something happens to me

135tomorrow, at least I have a document and I'm not going back having to recreate it and ask the board because it has to be board approved and come back, you know, sick and say, "Oh, please adopt this for me." So, that's all. It's just something to start with and we can adjust from there. Uh Mr. Scott, thank you for the work on that. How far forward are those two districts looking? Um Chelsea, you said, and LESA. Yeah, so uh Dr. Hubert from LESA, his goes through 29. 30. And so does um the Chelsea one. And they they look they're very similar. The uh Chelsea one actually has like the legal disclaimer, it references the um ORS references the uh Supreme Court ruling. Um So, I I like the formats. It looks like these were, you

136know, in looking at the contracts, it looks like they were part of contracts that were put together by legal. I My biggest concern is again, that the the ORS specifically states that the retroactive is not acceptable. So, I guess my my issue approving this is that it's 99% retroactive. And again, it crosses I I understand you cross out Chuck Hughes and write superintendent, but it also crosses class job classifications, which I mean, I read directly I have, you know, I read directly from the uh Supreme Court ruling on that that it should be job classification rather than specific employees. And you are protected um if if you were to retire tomorrow uh because you could use another administrator's salary schedule or you could, you know, use you could probably use uh uh Dr. Hubert's salary

137schedule. I can't use Dr. Hubert's or anybody else's, to be honest with you. It says you can, but the reality is um you have to look at each individual thing and what counts for salary and what what doesn't and contracts are all different. And so I don't feel comfortable with that and then my conversations with my association, they were like, "Yeah, you cannot contracts are not contracts are specific to superintendents. You can say acts, but it's just not true. You have to capture what actually happens to you and your contract." So um someone might have a car allowance, right? But that doesn't count towards your salary. And so that, you know, that's not going to be in there and it can't be salary, but someone might say, "Well, yeah, but compare that to that and

138that's the total salary package." Well, that's not true. It's not the total salary package. >> Right. Well, they're just they're all their ORS's. Like they're not looking at the wages of the other superintendent. They're just looking at the wage increase year over year and then they will extrapolate that onto your contract. If this was going to be so hard, seriously, I would have just asked for my contract to be extended. If if if I can step in here, um if someone were to make a motion to make a couple of amendments to this as it's presented so that we change the title, we take away Chuck Hughes, we add super superintendent salary schedule. We remove the bottom line which says director of curriculum and instruction. We swap out the um the number for where it

139says salary schedule created in the one cell in the spreadsheet. And then I believe there was one other the retroactive part. Um I'm going to I'm just venturing a guess because I haven't looked at that online um that the forward-looking lines on those are probably representative of their current contracts. So maybe their current contract. So if we could add a line or two to this to represent Chuck's current contract and project what those would be. Isn't that what this does? Does Does your contract end in 2027? No. No, 28. Yeah, so this should have >> another line then. >> This should have right. This This should have future years because that's what they're they're not they're not going to look at past years that are retroactive. So it needs These all have future years. Do

140you want to So if we include the future years, it meets that requirement. That is the requirement. Yeah, that the salary schedule is for >> a simple yes. Yes, okay. So if we add the the any lines necessary to play this out through the end of Chuck's existing current contract and make the other small changes that Mr. Scott has brought up and Mr. Keller has brought up if we can make an motion to make that that amendment would people feel better about moving this forward? Yes. Do we Sorry, the the only problem that that are the only thing that doesn't solve for me is the legal opinion because I don't think we're going to magically have one of those. >> Throw it away. Take it off the board. I don't really give a This is

141stupid. This is an easy simple one that should have just been taken care of. It's factual. I don't care. This is stupid. Put it in there at that time. I'm This is stupid. We don't have time time to go home. Thank you. Um This is dumb. Well, the Well, this was the agenda we were given to deal with. Jesus. There was no discussion item. We obviously brought new information to the table. >> the table. I don't want it. >> But let's keep our composure. No, it's dumb. So what what are you looking for with the with the legal opinion? What is Well, with all due respect, getting the opinion from MASA does not serve the board or the people of the community. So I think we need to use the district's attorneys to get legal

142opinions. >> what though? When when all these other when all these other >> the numbers. The procedure that we need to follow. I Mr. Scott just rattled off a lot of stuff that we need to be cognizant of. And I think to just brush that under the rug to hurry up and get it done, I don't think that's doing >> what he said we needed to be cognizant of. We're addressing with the with the with the proposed amendments the proposed changes that I was hoping someone would motion to amend. Um we're addressing what he talked about. But we don't know. We don't We're not provided with those forward numbers. I guess I if if we want to just do it through 26-27 but if his contract goes through 28, why would that not be in

143the salary schedule? That's why I proposed that we add it. >> Right, but we don't have those numbers, right? Something tells me they'd be pretty easy to come up with. Okay. >> Cuz we've got a contract in writing. President Coleman. Yes, sir. I would like to motion to postpone voting on the superintendent salary schedule at this time indefinitely with consideration to add it to the agenda at a letter at a later regularly scheduled board meeting. Support. Second. All right. Motion to postpone. Item 2E superintendent salary schedule indefinitely. That was brought forward by Mr. Campbell and it was supported by just about everybody. I'll pick Mr. Keller. I think I heard a support from you, didn't I? You did. Okay. Don't know if it was first or Okay. So motion on the table is to postpone

144item 2E superintendent salary schedule in in postpone it indefinitely brought forward by Mr. Campbell supported by Mr. Keller. Is there any discussion on that motion? Hearing none, Mr. Gogoleski. Yes. Mr. Campbell. >> Yes. Mrs. Shaw. >> Yes. Mr. Keller. Yes. Mr. Scott. >> Yes. Miss Custodio. >> Yes. I'm yes. Motion carries. On to discussion items, thankfully. Item 3A food service equipment in Creekside Elementary walk-in. Mr. Hughes or Mrs. Boyce. Same thing that's in front of you. Um we've got a cooler that has to be replaced at Creekside and some ovens and things that we'd like to buy and we have a cafeteria fund that's um needs to be spent down. So we'll use those dollars to make all this work. Rachel, anything I missed? Nope, that's pretty much it. I mean these the the Creekside

145uh walk-in is in pretty poor shape. It's um got con- some condensation issues so that really does need to be replaced. Um and then the other equipment items for Village is really um needed due to the expansions of our GSRP program. Um we have a lot more meals that we have to prepare and this will help them um prepare those meals more efficiently for those uh those programs. And yes, all of this will be paid for out of the food service fund out of our fund balance there. I have a question. Are we going to use the same vendor we used at the high school? I know I think we had some issues with it and We're not using the same supplier for that and okay. And honestly, that's why we went about it this

146way. We quoted We asked for quotes this time instead of doing a sealed bid. It was under the threshold that required a sealed bid. This way we could choose which vendors we sent those quote requests to. >> emphatic no from Mr. Marino in the back. So very good. Thank you. >> [laughter] >> Um quick question. I'm looking at one of the uh quotes here. Price is good until 2/17/2026. Are these quotes still valid? That surprises me cuz I thought we just got this one. Like 2 days ago. Not 2 days ago, I guess. Tuesday. We would have So a week ago. Um you know, typically they have these on here. We do verify that, you know, before we place the order, but a lot of times, you know, we get these quotes and then we

147have to wait for the board approval process and and all of that, but we will verify that uh pricing is still good and before we bring it for action at the next meeting. I'm going to guess that that two should be a three cuz that's about the >> That's what I was going to say cuz that's a common error. I make that all the time. Any other questions at this time? Obviously follow up with with Chuck or his team if you have any questions between now and the next meeting. Moving on to item 3B transportation garage hoist. We have a broken hoist in the transportation department. It's been down all year. Um we've just been waiting for the right time to get some quotes and make sure that we can get that fixed. So that

148those are the quotes to have that uh hoist fixed. We still have three of them in operation so we're able to get all the buses taken care of, but it's good to have the fourth one. We do have four mechanics down there that could be working all at the same time. Okay. Any questions at this time for Chuck or his team? Hearing none, thank you. Uh item 4A future meetings. Uh April 6th, we've got a special meeting which is our 9-month check-in for Mr. Hughes' evaluation. Um we'll essentially be meeting um Okay. pending Do we postpone something to that meeting or do we postpone it to No. No, we didn't. Okay, thank you. Um So, we'll be meeting essentially gathering here to go into closed session for that as Mr. Hughes has requested that. Um

149April 13th is the policy committee meeting. And April 20th is our regular meeting here all at 6:30 here. It's going to be a unpacked month of lots of meetings. Uh any information items needed to be shared? Anything? All right, we are adjourned. Thank you.