001Is that okay? We start on time. It's six o'clock. Oh, it is. Wow. I made it. Everyone made it. And everyone is welcome to grab food and drink flights quietly throughout the meeting anytime you want, including visitors. Oh, wait. Are these yours? Yes. All right, everyone. Make sure you turn your name so that um you know who we are. So, just so everyone knows, I'm kind of shortlived here. I do have to take off in like a half hour. I gota work here. National security emergency. We are gonna let it go. Yes. Damn middle floor has turned cyber and I work for a cyber company. So, you have to do that again. Are you serious? You're joking. No, he's not. Oh, it's always been Iran's one of the biggest like cyber Yes. The way that
002I said know that that that's why Yeah. No, there's just some things going on that meeting. Huh? We're going to restart the meeting so that hope can cut from right now and we are going to say welcome everyone to tonight's board workshop. We are set up at a round table to uh assist the board discussion that needs to happen tonight. This is still an open public meeting. We do still have guests in the audience. Um and let's start with a roll call attendance vote. Um Dan here, Jennifer here, Brian present. Me. Mike here. Amy here. Um Melanie here and no students tonight. I would like to introduce our guest John Sbury. Um we need to just get through our approval of agenda and public participation and then I will let him introduce himself and take
003over the meeting at that point. So I'll move that the board approve the agenda for today's workshop. Second. We have a motion, a second. Any discussion? All those in favor, please say I. I forgot already to record the start. Well, the secretary should be doing that for a while. It's all right. 603. So, I would think I can handle this. Um, and Melanie made the motion. And who seconded? Brian, thank you very much. Um, you know, if there's anything extra that would be great. Got it. I'm on it. Okay, it is now time for public participation. If anyone would like to address the board seeing no one, we will move on to our superintendent search. And at this point, I will turn the meeting over to you. Um, we are rather informal, so we do
004use first names usually, but you are welcome to do whatever you ask. All right. Thank you. Um, happy to be here. First of all, thank you for placing your trust in me and in our organization. Very much appreciate it. Um, I'll briefly introduce myself. So, longtime educator, I've done just about everything you can imagine. I started as a teacher. I was counselor, principal, central administrator, assistant superintendent, superintendent in two different school districts, Mary'sville public schools in Slair County, then Waterford Schools in Oakland County. I've been doing this work with the Michigan Leadership Institute for nearly 10 years now. Um, and during that time I've done again a wide variety of things. But as it relates to searches, roughly 40 probably during that time. So I do have a ton of experience in doing searches. This
005is a little bit different. I will I'd like to be transparent. So I have not firsthand done an internal only search. Some of my colleagues in the organization have consulted with them. So, what we're going to talk about is basically a modified version of the typical type of a search that we do. But, as with all of these searches, I like to start out with a draft timeline, bring it to you, um, and then we kind of hash that out. So, what you see is very much a draft. This needs to work for you, and my job is to support you to get this right and end up where you need to be. So, that's my intent. Um, any questions about that? Okay. So, I do like to start out with the timeline so that
006we can get that set. But in the course of talking about the timeline, what we're in effect doing too is talking about the process step by step by step. So, it's a nice way to also review that and see if there's anything again that we need to modify. So, um any questions you have along the way as we do this, please interject and uh we'll make this very much a dialogue hopefully. Um, so if you have that draft timeline in front of you, we made you an extra packet. I appreciate that, guys. There's pens and notepads and sticky notes if you need them in the middle of the table. Thank you. Um, so we obviously went through the first step uh steps already. Uh, we put an online survey out and conducted face-toface meetings. You
007got the results of all of that. Um, and hopefully you've had a chance to review that. So, I think there's some interesting information there. It certainly helped to create the candidate profile. I think as I indicated in the email that I sent you, u we'll get to that profile, but um we took the top 10 responses from the online survey and then took some of your responses as well. Um blend it all together. So, we'll get to that briefly, but that was the purpose of having those meetings. The face toface meetings, there was a little bit more dialogue. In addition, I asked those folks if they had any feedback for you if you saw the results of that. And it just gave me a chance for those interested enough to show up to talk about
008what the process may look like. But I emphasized that it really was not cast in stone yet because until we had this meeting, everything was very much tentative, right? So we took those steps and obviously it gets us to today. Um, so what we tenatively have here is that we would post the position as soon as tomorrow. We would have that posting up then for just a little bit over um about two and a half weeks roughly. Normally with searches, we'll do a fiveweek posting period, but remember when we do that, we're posting it throughout the state and even beyond. Um, and so we need to leave give more time, right? Um, I think a little bit over two weeks would be enough for your internal candidates to be able to submit their application materials.
009Right. Is it I was actually thinking that's long. Well, we can talk about that. Is there a way to cut this in half? There's a way. This discussion is intended to give us a chance to modify this. Okay. And so, the easy answer to that is, can we shorten that? Sure, we can. There's is there a law like it has to be open for a certain amount of time but we have to adhere to and I know your internal folks already know what's going on. So my presumably those who are interested may be kind of prepping already. I would so if there's a a place where we can kind of tighten this that may be one of those places. So I'll walk you through all of it and then we'll go back and see where
010we need to modify this. Um so once we have uh that's been finalized, we're providing a link. Those applications would come to um through the frontline system that we normally use to um collect applications. So I'll be seeing those as they come in. Uh we would have a meeting then following. I had tentatively set that as Monday, July 14th, where we'd have a chance for you to review the applications and determine who you'd want to interview. Now again, that's what we typically do. You could say ahead of time, we're just going to plan to interview anybody internally who applies, but you don't know who's going to apply. I can tell you in a recent search, as one example, um a a teacher, a classroom teacher in the district applied for the superintendency, didn't meet the
011qualifications. I'm not sure what was going on there. It doesn't matter, but you just don't know, right? So if you commit in advance to interviewing anybody who applies, you may be applying folks who aren't even technically qualified based on the qualifications you establish. So what we would normally do per the open meetings active one time in a process like this you can do anything behind closed doors because the candidates are highly likely to check in the application that they want their applications to remain confidential. You can go into close session to review the applications. So you can't deliberate in close session. we would go into close session to review the application materials, see who it is that's applied. I will normally affix a letter designation to each of them. You have to deliberate outside of
012that. So that's just to know who's applied to be able to ask questions for clarification. When we come back out of close session, then by letter designation, here's what I typically do. I just ask each of you to go around be prepared to do this and say by letter, here's who I'd like to interview. So if you've got four candidates, it could be candidates A, B, and D, for example. Are you allowed to evaluate the the applications in flow sessions? Like if you had a rubric, could you set that up during the flow session? You could do that on your own. You can't do it collectively. Okay. Do we get the applications ahead of time or are we only showing them in that meeting? We typically don't provide them ahead of time just again to
013preserve the confidentiality of the candidates. We're really careful with that. Okay. um given that it's going to be such a limited number and I it's more likely than not that you're probably not going to have any surprises. We we'll see right but we do then how would you evaluate candidate outside of the meeting if you don't have the information in advance um you can't right so you can't so so we have to do that ahead individually collectively well so bear in mind what you're doing at this point is you're just determining who it is you'd like to have participate in a first round interview just to see who you want to interview that that's it and a first round interview typically is more of a screener than anything, right? So, it's not the kind of
014the high pressure of we need to know more because we're making this decision about who's going to be our next superintendent. It's just more than anything, honestly. It's who's going to meet the basic qualifications. Right? That's why I was saying, can we do a rubric with basic qualifications and rank people in close session so that we can then come out of close session and decide and express our opinions individually only? Okay. Like in your in your own your own head. Yeah. Can we just set a rule that if there's like four or less applicants, we just automatically interview them so we can skip this part? I mean, can you? Yes, that's my question for you today. But again, what you could be doing, I think it's unlikely, but what you could be doing is pre-committing
015to interviewing somebody who you can safely predict in advance isn't qualified and yeah, doesn't stand a chance. But that's up that that's totally up to you. Again, I'm coming to tell you kind of here's how we typically do it and you're going to give me direction if there's anything that you want to modify or do anything differently. I don't see how that would be different than Well, let's finish going through the timeline and then we can tweak those steps. Yeah. All right. I think Yeah. So, and what we would do then once you selected who you wanted to interview, so by letter designation once there's a motion, the motion successfully passes. What happens then too? So, if there is somebody who's applied and the motion doesn't include an applicant, u that application should remain confidential.
016As long as that applicant is not out there telling everybody that they've applied, nobody here should be telling anyone either. And presumably, nobody would know the difference. So, it does protect the candidates in that way. So, if there really is somebody in the field who you know already there's no way that this person could advance, they just aren't qualified, whatever the case might be, um you would save them uh the embarrassment or whatever you might call it of having that go public, right? That state confidential. Um and then we would also talk about first round interviews and prep for that, including selecting interview questions, which I would share with you in advance a bank of interview questions for you to review. So you could come to that meeting prepared to select the ones that you
017wanted to use in the first front interview. So we get ready for that. I'd contact the candidates immediately after that interview, get them schedules. Again, per this we just targeted a week of August 4th first round interviews conducted. Our first round interviews are typically 90 minutes long. Um up to I should say we give the candidates up to 90. There's a hard stop at the end of 90. Um, candidates don't always take that long, but we also are prepared to give the candidates a heads up if they're taking so long that it looks like they may not get through. So, at some point, we may need to tell them, we've got this many questions left, this much time, you may need to pick up the pace so that you don't run out of time. But,
018if they get to 90 and they haven't finished, we stop at 90. Again, that's what we normally do. Um, in all the years that I've done this, and as I said, probably 40 searches, I've had exactly one candidate who didn't get to the end of the interview questions. Typically, they'll take that prompt, they'll pick it up, and they'll be okay. They know prompt. I'll give 90 minutes and how many questions? Yes. I tell them that I try I communicate with them by email to give them as much detail as I can about what this is going to look like, what it will feel like, the number of questions, etc. Um, and then part of the prompt even when I I have kind of opening statement for the board president and when you then you're going
019to launch into questions, even that reiterates you're going to be asking you this many questions. So they know and they can prep prepare accordingly. Um so with that it's going to be up to you depends on the number of candidates. We normally advise that you don't do more than two interviews per night because if you have two 90-minute interviews and we advise you take at least a 10-minute break in between just to get up, clear your head, stretch your legs. Um you're talking about over three hours already. You tack on another potentially 90minut interview. Yeah. Folks can start to wear down. It's hard to be as attentive as you'd like to be and probably need to be. Now, again, this is what we're advising. If you tell me if you end up with three candidates
020and say rather than come back an extra night, we're going to gun it out and do it all in one night. You can do that. That's a decision that actually even if in a timeline we have a couple of nights scheduled, we can modify that that night for your direction if that's what you choose to do. But what we could even do, it's up to you, but we want to be careful, I think, not to get too far a field what we normally do. Um, if you want to get three folks into that first night, for example, and just do them all in one night. Um, we could carve shave down the number of questions just a little bit and maybe cut that 90 down to 80 or something like that just so that it's
021not quite as long a night for your but we can cross that bridge if we come to it. So what we'll do too and what we normally do is uh for anybody who's present for the interviews, we have feedback forms which we could either do it the oldfashioned way. We have a form, we have copies, people can fill them out by hand, we collect them, we make seven copies and you all end up getting a copy so that you see anything and everything that the folks here had to say. And typically what we ask there is um what what resonated with you, what may have concerned you and are there other questions that you still have about this candidate? That can be telling too because as you go to a second round sometimes you can
022get some great questions from them. Do you do these uh do you um broadcast these? Do you stream them? Do you do anything where we usually record and post later so we wouldn't get in time feedback from someone not here? Thank you. Okay. So the feedback would be limited to the people who are here. Okay. Um Okay. So then what we would normally do is is you would after those are done I like for search firms do this differently. we in Michigan Leadership Institute and and I am really a stickler with this typically is I don't want to put you in the position of going through interviews one night in that same night before you really have a chance to process your own thinking thoroughly read the feedback quickly make a decision about where you
023want to go with that. So, I will normally have you come back, even if the interviews take a couple of nights, I'll still have you come back the next night. Take at least 24 hours, give you a chance to really reflect, go back and review the application materials again, check your own interview, question notes, read the feedback, and just really give it some serious thought. And by the way, comparing all this to your candidate profile. We went through all of that for a reason, right? So, we want to make sure that um you're you're really trying to kind of filter all the applicants through that lens to find the person who's going to be the best fit. Okay. Um so, we would have you come back and do that. And normally the way I do
024that is I have you one by one be prepared to individually say, "Here's who I'd like to advance. You're welcome to speak to your BL. You don't have to, but you're welcome to. It might help your colleagues, could help members of the public in terms of transparency." And then we just kind of see where the chips fall where there's consensus. Clearly four or more of you would like to advance somebody. They would just take a motion. You would take action and then you advance that candidate or those candidates. Um and then we would have a second round of interviews for second interviews. And again on this tenative timeline. There's a there's not normally a gap like this. This was kind of built around times when um at least provided me times when she knew some
025of you had conflicts and couldn't be here. So that's the reason for the delay there from the 4th to the 18th. Normally second round would be the very next week. So um for second round we ask fewer questions but we add a presentation. So the presentation so think about an interview. Interview questions normally are three to four minutes long u in terms of a response or a presentation. I ask you to pick the topic. It could be something that is critical that you know about these candidates where they can get more indepth. What I'll normally advise the candidates is for second round we we say that we're going to cap it at 80 and I advise the candidates plan for about 20 minutes for your presentation about 60 to answer interview questions but we're not
026timing them separately. It's still a hard stop at 80. So if the candidate takes shorter or longer they just have to adjust. Um, so what you do then is you can hear again them speak more in-depth on a topic that's really important to you and you could see even though you may know these folks and have seen them present, you can see a little bit in terms of their presentation style at that time as well. So start with the presentation, end with additional interview questions. Um, we approach the interview questions a little bit differently. We'll talk about that more down the road. Um, and we do provide an opportunity there if you wanted to ask questions that are more specific to individual candidates, you can do it. But our rule of thumb to be equitable
027is if let's say you have two finalists, right? So if you have an individual specific targeted question for one, you need to do the same thing for the other. If you have two for one, you need to do two for the other. Alison. Okay. Do we give them time for questions? In both rounds, we build that in. We give them time at the end. Typically, the first question is more uh to give them a chance to broadly talk about their background, their experiences, why they're interested, but then there's time at the end too for them to ask questions of you and to make a closing statement. And we do that in both first and second round. Thank you. Sure. Um so there's no action taken at the end of those um second round interviews. Again,
028same deal. um you need to take time to reflect and come back and make your selection for this. We tentatively had set that I believe you have a meeting on August 25th. So this would be adding to that meeting where you go through a similar process one at a time. Here's who I would like to select as our next superintendent. Here's why. We see where four or more of you have have cast your lot with that candidate and it would simply take a motion. What I advise boards and we'll talk about this more later is part again we're looking for transparency. That's part of why it's really beneficial that each of you speaks to here's who I'd like to select and you may not all agree at that point, right? You may not. It may
029be 4 to three, five to two, doesn't matter. It's not a formal vote. You're just expressing what you think. Once a motion is made, I strongly encourage all of you to vote yes. At that point, it's clear who's about to be selected. You will have already been transparent and clear with the public and with one another about who you preferred, so you're not being disingenuous. Yeah, but a yes vote at that point indicates, look, we're going to pull together and we're going to immediately get behind the person who's about to become our next superintendent. I'm not telling you you have to. I'm advising that that's best practice. I agree with that. I agree. We usually try to vote and come up as a I think it's more of a recommendation than anything. No, I know.
030I'm saying but I know I get that. But I'm saying I almost Yeah, of course you don't like that because we we usually we're making a consensus. We modify things so everyone can get the consensus. You can't modify a person. You can't. But that's not going to agree. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't mean you disagree. You have one you favor, one you don't. Sure. You know, so it might be four or three. I'm still going to get the person that that the board selected if I even if I voted for somebody else. It's going to be your call. I I can I'm just saying that's just my just saying for solidarity. It's better. It starts off on a good foot. Yeah. That being said, we're not typically what boards do like in a corporate setting
031is they'll vote, they'll land them where their final executive is, and then the threshold is will they do a good job, yes or no, knowing they're already going to get the votes, they'll they'll become unanimous at that point to get behind them, right? When they know it's already a foregone conclusion, a no vote usually only signifies that you just don't believe they're capable of doing the job, which is drastic and almost Yeah, I've never heard of that happening. I can't imagine that's that right vote of confidence basically. I imagine we'll have strong candidates and they all will be able to do a capable job. So at that point it's are we behind them? Thank you. Um and then you won't have hired the new superintendent yet. Obviously you've got to negotiate a contract. Once that's
032done you take formal action. Could be at an established board meeting. Could be a special meeting if you want to get it done quickly. didn't want to wait for the next meeting, but just like you do for any other hirings that you do, right? General election and you're approving that contract that you've agreed to and now you're in business. You had a question about advancing the dates. Don't you say something about that? I have a proposal. Well, okay. So, hold on. He just finished that. I'll just I'll just make this comment and then um I do want I need to hear from you. So, this timeline is fairly lengthy, right? if we could tighten it up, it would be beneficial. This was just a stab at putting the pieces in place to talk about working
033around vacations and conflicts. Um, so it is what it is. But absolutely, if there's a way to tighten it up, it would be beneficial. At the same time, what I don't want to do is tighten it up so fast that it gives the appearance that you're racing through a process. And I will tell you and I I like to be honest with people. I I you know you need to know what I know and what I hear and where I stand. So as I have went through the uh stakeholder meetings, one of the things that I heard repeatedly is that and I don't know how strongly how widespread this is maybe is the way to put it, right? Part of what I heard is well, um, there's a a perception out there that the board
034already knows who they want to hire and this is just a dog and pony shut, right? They're just doing this. They already know. And I tell you that only because news to me. Yeah. Well, that's good. But I tell you that only because if uh in an effort to streamline it looks like you're kind of racing through a process, I think that would reinforce the notion that you're just racing through to get it done because you already know what we would like. So, and you don't just do it for perception purposes either. You don't want to race through a process because this is an enormous decision that you need to get right. So, you need to be as deliberate as you can be without elongating it to the point that it gets a little bit
035ridiculous. Right. And I know there's some concern um that Superintendent Timus has expressed too that if this gets goes too long and um gets into September um there's going to be movement right based on who you hire and replace folks within the organization and if you're getting already into when the school year has started that we complicate things just a little bit. So, but first and foremost, so I I think that's a an appropriate concern to take into account, but first and foremost, you need to go through a process. Do so with fidelity, do so with an open mind. Um, so I would even suggest this if you human nature is such that you could be sitting here knowing who it is that might apply, who's likely to apply and thinking if that's the case,
036I would think this person might be um our best bet as possible, right? But um to go into a process like this, I would just urge you to go in with an open mind. Go through step by step by step. Really be as analytical as you can be. Use that candidate profile and see where that takes you. And having done this with boards before, I know for a fact there have been times that we started out where there were people who a candidate or two that it seemed as though kind of were were in the lead and and were the most likely to to prevail. And by the time we got to the end of the process, that was not the case. Yeah. Can we uh read the timeline after we get the applicants if
037there's any if there's any one? No, I think I think in general from what I've seen across the state and what John has like shared with me is that these dates get put out and the candidates know exactly what they need to do so they can arrange their life also. So, I just I want to be really Yeah. Like, what is a typical uh hiring timeline that you see? How many how many weeks start to finish? Um 14 weeks roughly for a full-blown superintendent search where you're taking an index during lab. But part of that includes the fiveweek posting period. Oh, yeah. That's Yeah. So, right away by posting this, even if it were two, you're shaving three weeks off of that. That would get it 14 process down to 11, let's say. So my
038thoughts on this can I Yeah. No, he's got two minutes. Walk out of here. So you don't mind. Go. So I I think this can be sped way up. This is a long time to hire even like the CEO of a large corporation. And that's effectively what we're hiring here. And I think because we're going internal only, we already know the candidates largely unless we get some surprise candidates. But I think we all we know we have collective expertise of all of our candidates. So, it's not like an external search where I'll have to spend a lot of time thinking through, vetting, researching, looking at the external candidates. These are ones we already intimately know and we're going to have our profile. I don't think it's going to take us that long to like I
039think we I don't have any idea and I think we do fairly evaluate all the candidates, but we're not going to have nine. I don't think I think we can land on a framework where if we've got four, we have two days of interviews. If we've got four or less, let's just interview all four. Even if one is a long shot, I mean, it's their their time to shine. It's a good experience for them. Maybe we learn something about a candidate that, hey, that we'd love for something else. Like, so if we have somebody in the district that is maybe not quite qualified for this, but outstanding enough, maybe they actually are a perfect candidate to backfill to be the next one. So, I wouldn't necessarily write them off. I'm not advocating we interview 10
040people, though. So if we get four or less, I would say let's just automatically schedule them for first rounds, 90 minutes each and do it as soon as we can. In the second round, we should be able to land on let's say two for a second round or three or whatever. Do that like very quickly right after. I agree. I don't think I don't think we need to drag it out. I know like some of these are are gaps and stuff and I I have work I have a vacation and a work trip in here and unfortunately some of this is probably me but I'm happy to do whatever I can do to make sure we push this forward and the other part of if we can speed it up a little bit is or
041a lot um you know if we could get the presentation of the applicants to us by the seven and then we can evaluate whether they're qualified or not based on the you know the the rubric that has been determined by the um that would give us more time if if if there's an event where we did need to open it up to the public. While we're talking guys, I have a blank July and August calendar there. If you guys could pass it around and just like write your name in lines on days you are not here. Um and Mike, I know your evening obligation, but like just no. If I could just visually look at that again while we're talking about it, that would help. And also, I'm gonna keep it around for as committee
042stuff. Is taking applications um as simple as sending in resume and cover letter or is there a long form these candidates have to fill out? There's there's a a pretty comprehensive application that they need to complete. Okay. And so what you would end up getting is a copy of that completed application, a resume and a cover letter. Okay? And then if they wanted to, and which virtually always candidates will do in a typical search when they come for the interview, if there's additional materials they want to share with you, letters of recommendation, 90-day plan of entry, whatever it might be, they have the opportunity at that point to give you additional materials. Again, another reason if you don't want to decide kind of on the spot that night because you'll want a chance to review
043those materials, too. So, if we want to approach it this way, maybe kind of step by step. I I heard one indication that we don't need to have the application open for as long as it's indicated here. So I was thinking like the 4th of July. Me too. Close it on the fourth. On the 7th we pick our candidates. Later that week we interview first round of interviews. Following week, second round. Yeah, I agree. That's exactly what I was writing. And and then we slide everything up by like three weeks. I I think we should have a position by August 11th. Yeah. Assuming we have strong candidate, right? If nobody if it's not strong candidates, then we have to back out and we have to do something else anyway. But if we have strong candidates,
044I want them to be in place ready to prepare for the next school year. We have to all be here on the 11th because I probably won't be here on the 11th. We can move it to the 8th, but um I won't be here. 11th August. If we were to hire somebody on the 11th, I probably won't be here. Okay, hold on. Let's let's get the earlier dates before we skip to August. Okay, go back to the the application should be June 25th reasonable just because the it's a holiday so and it's like eight days. It's okay. What's Okay. No, I post my I was concerned about what what you said. Yeah, it's only open for like six days. Um I one suggestion I heard was the 7th 25th to the 7th. Is that No,
045the fourth. Well, hang on. How much time do you need between applicants closing and the board meeting again to pick questions and reviews? Um, not much honestly. I I just what I'll need to do once the application window closes to prepare for the meeting is just end up getting hard copies. Brian, do you want the the survey data and stuff that's printed for you there? Print it only if you want it. I don't go for it. Bye. Sure. Would July 7th be a night that we could meet? Oh, go back to I'm just trying to get boundaries. So, like if we can meet on the 7th, then we can close it whenever you think we would need to. Seventh, although it's possible I can change the eth. Yeah, you don't want to do on the
046seventh. Let's face it, it's going to be a July 4th weekend. Well, don't do it on the We're we're tight because by July 17th, I can tell you July 17th to August 1st is people gone. What can we meet on Friday, July 11th or no? Um, I I can't. I can. Oh, you can't. I may be able to make it work. Let's presume I can for now. I think I could probably make some work. I was going to say while everyone's looking at 8 or 10 or what? July. Would it be an evening meeting? Yeah. I'm assuming people are working during Oh, yeah. What does it say on the calendar? July 8th and 10th. Are they available so far? No, besides you. So far, I'm available. So, I'm going to go back. I want to
047make sure I'm making these adjustments here so I can update this timeline. You would like to have the window of application open from June 25th. Well, we were trying to figure out to back into that back into That's why I wanted to go backwards. I always start from the end and come back. Yeah. But I mean, I get it. Yeah. So, if we met on the 10th, could the window close on the seventh? You can't. The 10th's not going to work based on right here. Too many. Okay. Uh, you could do based on this, you could do it says you could do seventh, eighth, or ninth. I don't I don't think we should do the seventh just because it's a Okay. Well, John can't. So, okay. Eth and ninth. Just close it. The eth and
048the nth. All right. I'm trying to avoid Wednesdays for Mike. So, that's okay. I can Well, we'll we'll we're going to avoid them as much as we can. So if the eighth works, let's do if it works. But yeah, but if we're doing better to do anything, go for it. I personally I don't think it's a good idea to have interviews for four or five hours in one day. I think it does a disservice to the candidate and us. So the you're not doing the interviews on the eth, right? The eth would be picking just looking at the applications applications and the questions and preparing for the interview. Okay. So what what is listed as June 24th would be July 8th. Okay. while we're at it. No, this one's gonna be July 8. Or sorry,
049sorry. Sorry. June July 14th. Yeah, the July 14th were changed to July 8th. Sorry. Sorry. It's okay. So, what I'm seeing right now just as we're moving through and I know we haven't gotten that far. Post position accept applicants is June 25th through July 7th. Is that what you guys? Well, no. So, John can pick the end date based on the fact that we're going to meet on the 8th. So, how much time you need. I would say if it's going to be if we're in a close if applications are due on the 4th or if if we're meeting on the 8th, I think to say applications wouldn't be due until the 7th. It's going to be cutting it a little bit too close. So, the sixth the sixth is a Sunday. I don't want
050to make July 4th. Oh, I'm not worried about you. I need to stop. I don't do the corporate stuff. So, whatever you think is fine. Job postings end on weekends. I just I have a feeling our candidates are going to be ready. So I let's say the 5th. Okay. And the fifth, which is a Saturday. Yep. Okay. And then Monday, July 8th would be the presentation of Tuesday. Thank you for correcting that. That's okay. Okay. And now we're at when do we want to do the first round? Because we could do them now that week of the 14th, right? Oh, you want Okay, that's I don't know. No, no, the 14th is fine. But but according to this calendar, I don't think it's working. You can't do the 14th. The 15th I can't do. Well,
051no, but 15th and 16th are open. Yeah, I can do the 15th. So, did everyone get a chance to put their dates? Did you get a chance? It looks like it. Yeah. Want to have that? Would that be great? So, 15th and 16th for that would be open. Yeah. Yeah. July 15th. So, let me ask, is it bad to separate first and second interviews by a long time, though? Ideally, we like to bring them closer together. Yeah. Um, here's what it feeds into. You know, you're gonna your public's going to be your staff, your public's going to be very interested in this. Yeah. The bigger the gap between first and second round, the more people can get spun up. Yeah. And so, you want to have enough time, but um I think too much time
052could be be maybe a disservice. So, that's a worry. If we choose candidates on the 8th then, but can't get back to it till like August 4th. Yeah, that's a long time. No. Well, what we're talking about now is it sounds like there's two dates. the week of the 14th. Yeah. 15th and the 16th are 15th and 16th. The 15th and 16th are would you do like first and first interviews I think will heal status. That's what I think. Right. But so then there's a big gap between unless we just don't have Brian at that meeting on the 21st or 22nd. When's the next available date for you folks to meet after the 16th? The very next Yes. The very next day. Does the 19th hit? 19th Saturday? No, no, he's just in 22nd. Are
053you sure? Yeah, cuz he Yeah, cuz he specifically asked me. Brian said he had work and vacation. Have to work around that, I think. All right. So, what's the next date after the 16th? Oh, you're Oh, Jennifer, you added a vacation. I did. Um Oh, this is bad then, guys. I know. Then then you're getting a daughter. I mean, you guys do. So, you're going full two weeks here tenatively. I don't we don't have definite plans but we want to be we want to be gone. We can't do 15 to 17 July. We can 15th and 16th I think. Yeah. But remember when we need to then potentially we don't know yet because we don't know how many you made. If we have one or two days I would do two just left those two
054off for the first interviews. 15 16 15 17 15 and 16. Try 17. Let's tentatively do that. Let's talk and then what day then would you let's assume that you need both of those nights for interviews. And as we talked about, I don't want to put you in a position to have to make a decision to reduce down to finalist that same night. So what would be the very next night you could come back together to narrow the field down to finalists? 18th. 18th to Friday. Not good. No, it's a whole month. Yeah. Then it bumps out July 18th. Yeah. So, as I say, starting the 17th, July is done. It's toast, right? It's toast to get everybody. So, we don't want to do the first round of interviews and then wait a month. No,
055not at all. Or we just don't have everybody in attendance. I know, but do you have to do two round? I mean, do you have to do a first and second interview? You should. I think the farther away you get from that, I'll go back to it. It's just it it's you're making the decision in my opinion to what you without enough data. I agree. You want I think you want to look at Yeah. think about the answers. You need to Yeah. And what you could do with this, you know, bear in mind, I'll add this after the first round as we're thinking about second round questions. Part of the intent of the second round is fill in the gaps. What do you still need to know about these people to make this big decision?
056That's going to inform what the second round questions might be. So, that's where that second round could be helpful. And again, you got a chance to ask very specific questions to the candidates that you don't have in the first round. So, well, let's read that after August 4. Obviously, thought I'll make I'll make the 14 I'll make it happen if it's at night. Probably the only person it's after that that we have three weeks 14, 15, 16, 17. What for a second set of interviews? You can't have them. They would have to have a presentation. Yeah. I appreciate you being No, no, no. I forgot about the presentation. Yeah, that's that would be really unfair. That's unfair. Same tap dance. So, I could just leave on the fifth and we could do the fourth. About
057that. How many weeks is that? One. Two. That's a long That's a long time. Two weeks. Two and a half weeks. When does everybody come back in August? The 18th. Why wouldn't we just the 18th? Is there a reason why the week of August 11th wasn't for the second round? There was there was some kind of a comow. I got you. Well, I'm not gone till Thursday, but Right. But but Brian and Jennifer, that's the problem with trying to do this in the summer. Yeah. I mean, it's a it's just what it is, right? Well, what if we where we can't speed it up anyway? That's because we are No, I'm almost back to even Sorry. go backwards, right? Oh gosh. Well, I know that the original timeline was because you were well aware many
058vacations. I had I had a lot but not all. Yeah. So, I mean, if you guys would like to peruse the calendar um see you can see what Yeah. Now it's now it's more complicated. So, I mean, I'll just put this out. The only way then that you could really get through this more expeditiously considering the vacations is you would have to go forward without everybody being present. Yeah. You're not going to have a full That's a decision you're going to that idea. What if we just move it to September or October? Is that terrible? I think it is. I don't think it's fair to to the candidates. Having been playing the job game this year, it's just not fun to be waiting. How many to not know what you're going to do? What's the
059What's the um how long do people need to prep presentation for the second round? How much we I don't want to rush anybody. How much No, you're okay. So, normally we'll finish first round interviews on here's quite often. Um because a lot of times with the full-blown search, you'll see three nights of interviews or comes back on a Thursday to make a decision. I'm calling the candidates and getting them prepared to make a presentation the following week. So, they just get a few days. I get a lot of time with it. Thursday to Monday. Yeah. Here here's something to think about based on everyone's schedule. You're gonna instead of pushing everything forward, you can't going to screw everything up. Why don't we just do 18th 19th first round of what? July or August? August. Okay.
060And then if you need to do second round, well, do second rounds. Second round is presentations, right? Yeah. Presentation and additional questions on the 22nd. The 22nd. that we could that three three days. Yeah. If that's all it takes. I mean presentation. That's fine. I mean, if they know in advance that they're going to know in advance is scheduled. They're going to know advance our presentation required. We won't know that they won't. Will we know the topic? We won't know the topic until will we? When do you the topic? I'm not on vacation, but I'm in trial. So there is the 19th. So again, starting August 18th. Typically you'll pick the presentation topic on the same ide between now and then but I ask you ahead of time to give us some forethought. And again,
061so if if there's a desire to do it differently, you could pick the presentation topic sooner. You could make the candidates know sooner. If you're picked to be a finalist, you're going to need to to present. The only thing you lose is again that opportunity to say, "Okay, we've interviewed them a first time. Here's something that we're really wondering about. we need to hear a lot more about more in depth. Let's make that the presentation topic. So, you could schedule in advance, but you would lose that, which that may or may not happen. Honestly, it may not change what the topic would be anyway. They're both going to have the same topic. Yes, it's got to be fair. Yeah. So, I kind of I go back to I'm not sure when 18th 19th and then
062the 22nd of Friday for the second round of the week. So everybody's getting ready for the 25th doing their job or the 25th before you go on vacation like the candidates. It's the end of August. School's starting. School starting. Yeah. School starts what? The 25th. Staff reports. Yeah. Well, I don't know. But the central office going to be doing stuff. So you want a decision earlier? Well, I'm just saying to ask them to do a presentation in two days over a work week is I think non when do they come back to work school, you know, like coming back if they're I don't know when they're working, but it says we think it's like the 25th or so. When does this calendar start for their school work for uh staff, teachers, staff back to work?
063When do they report back? Yeah. Yeah. 25th. 25th. Okay. Okay. Yeah. But like I said, I think some people might be No, it is it is August. Throw me back to the original timelines. Yeah, pretty close. That bad. I know, right? It's not. Are you still making them do the whole presentation over to like interview on on Tuesday and have to come back for the presentation on a Thursday doing a job on Friday? I don't think that's fair. I would only because we have I mean I get it. We have a lot of vacations we can work on, but I think that's not fair to the candidates. I I think that is expecting a lot. I know. Like I said, I can come back on. If our goal is to have 100% attendance, I mean
064Amy might not be able to attend that time either. It's hard to I don't know. So is people are not. So if we do the um July 8th for the like we sit down and talk about the interviews. We don't have we couldn't have that first round of interviews the 10th and 11th. Are we missing too many people of July? And then the second round of interviews the 15th and 16th. Oh, can we have the first Can we meet on the third or the or the fifth special meeting on the 5th after 4th of July? I was supposed to be gone. No, I'm on it. Well, just to get the the selection and then we could start the first round of interviews the 8th and the 9th and then the second will be 15th and
06516th. That feels really harried. That feels really harried to me. Why is that? It's really rushed. Super rushed. What I mean by hair is like the applications won't even be closed by then. We'd have to close it. You'd have to close them earlier. Yeah. They give you a week, one week of application. That's really fast. I mean, really, just give them two days to get the application in. Oh gosh. That's kind of what you're like. That's what it's seeming like because if you're opening it tomorrow, the 25th. Yeah. I don't think we can make the calendar like fit our schedule and then ask the candids to do whatever we need them to do like in a hurry up. Um I I think the issue that I'm having right now is I'm looking at the the
066length of time between the first round and the second round right that's not great. So I'm kind of with Melanie guys. I'm kind of back to like well maybe the original schedule that John so wisely put together for us is the right one. But but even with that that's got that's a long time he's got a two week gap between first and second round which is not great but it worked all it to 18th and 25th I think 18th and 19th for the first round and then the 25th for the second round 50 on the decision on the 26th that's what I think you have the calendars I'm trying I know I'm around pass the calendar around so everyone can look at it so I'm gonna I'll go even a step further If if what
067you're going to look at doing now, if what you're committing to is to say we're going to only select dates where we have reason to believe all seven members of the board can attend, which typically you hear me saying that's really important too, right? Yeah. I I don't want to undermine that. So if if that's a given, what I would even suggest is even then that selection I I don't know that it's a great idea to select candidates and then have a big gap before you start interviews because again that gets people all kind of spun up to making their own decisions before the poor people have even interviewed advice against you. So that's going to be the case. I would suggest wherever that date is that it looks like you've got your vacations in,
068you're all back together. I know that's not going to be ideal for the district. And again, it goes back to now you're going to be having movement. Yes, you're going to be into the start of the school year. You're going to potentially have back filling positions. It's not great, but it just sounds like because of the timing and absences, etc. Nothing we come up with is going to be great. There's going to be a flaw with everything. So, what what's the best option of of uh considering don't want to put candidates through the gauntlet, right? We don't, that's not the goal. We don't want to have like Ann Arbor's had where the candidates are out there and then everybody starts chiming in and it goes there is already there's so much negativity. We don't want
069we don't want our person to start that first round 15th and 16th there are no blocks off. 21st and 22nd which would be a week later but just under a week later only Brian has it blocked off. Everybody else is available, right? That's what I was thinking. The six Oh, you can't. And that would be the 16th. That would be the Oh, I can't. I Yeah. I mean, I can do Wednesdays. It's fine. The Wednesday the 16th, everybody's available. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to do the So, what I was What I'm proposing essentially is with the July 8th as the presentation of applicants, first round, 15th, and 16th, second round, 21st, andor 22nd. Doesn't I mean, it doesn't matter because Brian's gone. Frankly, if Brian is able to work Yeah, it's a work trip. It
070is what it is. And and this is just on the Zoom or something. Yeah, this is just our listen in. Clint, he he can't he can't vote, but he could listen in to the presentation. That's true. Yes. And and frankly, looking at the schedule, that would make the most sense. And that's the least the point of least resistance that probably makes the most sense. What does July 11th look like? Um Brian and Dan are off. I have something in the evening. Yeah, you probably have something in the evening too because you're thinking 15 16 first round 21st 22nd 21st and or 22nd because we don't know, right? Hope that Brian can zoom in at least zoom in or we could audio record it and send it to him, right? Yes. And then we would be
071able to have our he just wouldn't be able to ask questions and leave the things we have set. submit questions to you in advance and you could present his questions because even if if if we wait it any longer, it doesn't matter that your education is only tenative. It It's too far. That's the issue. Then we have August 4th select. We probably only need one night for the final interviews, right? Can we do August 1st select? Yes, you would only need one night for final. So we could do 21 or 22, right? So we could ask can you text and see if one of those nights he could be live on with us and I can just FaceTime him. So to select Friday the the first um let me go back one fly in the
072ointment here. I'm going to go back to remember if you need two nights to interview you would need a third night to make your determination of who you're going to advance. since y and what's hard is that we don't know yet. You might not need it. Yeah. Right. You might not. But I think for right now, you need to set up a schedule that's going to It's easier to take one away. Absolutely. The ethan Dan, did you say you could potentially come on the 14th? Be exhausted. I think because we could do 14, 15, 16. I'll be driving all day. I I can if you do it 6 or 7 o'clock at night. You do it earlier. Well, that's our normal important. Yeah, I was going to say anyway. I'll just drive straight through. The
073practition the litigators over here are looking that's going to be tough for you folks. Well, these aren't attorneys that July 14th is a school board meeting. Yeah, I was thinking we could move that if people had decided on that date, we could move it to six. That's usually like our 30 minute organizational meeting. And then you know this, huh? We do all of them at six. Well, we need to do our district organizational meeting at the 14th for like 30 minutes. So, how early can people get here for that? The 14th? Yeah. If I'm in trial, I'll be in hell until probably 5. Okay. So, six is reasonable though, unfortunately. Okay. That's good. Doable. We can move district to six and we can start afterwards. Okay. And what we certainly can and will do on
074the night that you pick. So if we're sticking with that, right now we've got Tuesday the 8th going to be picking who it is you'd like to interview. Yep. Um on that night if you know then it's only two to three candidates and you can then adjust the schedule. We can do it. But I I still go back to I think you should assume you may need to need use two nights to interview and then another night to select. Yeah. So we're talking 14 15 16 subject to adjustment. And so yeah, so the candidates know they would be there the 14th or the 15th from the get-go. And then on the 8th we can decide if we only need one night how we want to play that. And what's the 16th? That would be if
075we had Yeah. Yeah. I don't know who to bring back for the second round. Oh, so wait. Are some of the interviews going to happen on the 14th? Per this what would have to happen is you'd interview on the 14th and 15th. On the 16th, you would select. If you don't need two nights to interview, it sounds like maybe the night to lop off would be that Monday when you have your old meeting. I don't I'll leave that up to you. But meeting is short. We can. Yeah, that that's totally already here anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Couldn't we make the board meeting like the 16th or something like that? Because we know it'll be shorter. It should be the same name. Yeah. Well, let's just let's see how it plays out for now. Okay. Because
076I don't really It's just Sure. We can fly through the organizational stuff if everyone's ready to go for it. So, that's usually our Dairy Queen night. So, maybe we do that on 16th. Okay. All right. So, 14th, 15th, and 16. 14th, 15th would be for interviews. 16th to select finalists. Then finalist interviews. I've got July 22nd or 21st or 22nd. You should only need one night for that. Okay. And I'm waiting to get back to me and ask to the other board member to see if he can be. So when he chirps in, I'll watch. And when's the selection? That's fine. Uh, we haven't gotten to that yet. Yeah, that's the next step. And actually, that's going to be Yeah. a problem, right? Everybody's gone. Well, okay. If we do it the 21st, we can
077select on the 22nd. That's what we should do. Okay. Okay. July. Oh, so you're not going to be available on the 25th now? On the 20? Yeah. Oh, no. Sorry. Wait, wait. The 23rd is other people's lines. I'm I am here on the 23rd. Well, Brian isn't Whose line is this? Is that Dan? There's a random line. No, that was me. I thought I thought No, that's my random line. So, that is 23rd is actually available. 21, 22, and 23 is like 21 and 23. Brian's 23 for selection. How long it 23rd? I think it's essentially just a it will be just a vote all around of who we're selecting, right? How long would that take? That meeting typically is relatively short because it is that straightforward. Yeah. Each of the seven of you says
078here's who I'd like to select. See where there's consensus. You vote. You've made your choice. Six to seven. Is that what it's my daughter's birthday? I know. Oh, I heard you say that. Kathy, I didn't write that on there, but Well, do you want to do 21 and two? 21 and two. Yeah. make a selection on the 22nd. Yeah, it's better for me. She's gonna be 12. Oh, so she's older. Select the superintendent, wouldn't she? Yeah. Bring her to a board meeting. That would be a fun party. Okay, let me read this back to everyone and see if we're all on the same page. It right. I'll update this and get it back. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, we are at the 24th right now. Yes. The position will get posted tomorrow. Tomorrow through July 5th.
079July 5th. Yes. June 25th through July 5th. Yeah. The board will meet on July 8th to receive the applications, determine who we're going to interview, and prepare for the first round interviews. Tuesday, July 8th at 6 p.m. At 6 PM. Okay. Um on July the candidates will know that they are interviewing either July 14th or 15th. I'll be told by the 10th or something like that. Actually when we meet on the 8th that night they'll know word travels fast and you're going to be making the se you're going to announce who you're going to interview once you do it by letter. We read the names out loud so people in know who you're talking about. I call all those folks that night and we'll let them know. So they'll know they'll be able to prepare.
080So you said 14th and 15th. 14th and 15th we'll do the interviews. Okay. The board only will meet the 16th to select who goes to the second round and that's the night that we would pick the topic then John. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. For the presentation that would be July 16th at 6 p.m. Yep. let's say 6 PM for all of these with the understanding that on July 14th we have to get our organizational meeting done quickly first and then we'll take a recess and then start the next um and then July 21st we will do second round interviews okay July 22nd we will select Brian hopefully will get a chance to listen to the second round And while his vote can't formally count, I do think we should have him write out something
081that can be read just, you know, that that's my preference if we can make that. Is that allowable act? No, his vote won't technically count. Yeah, he can prepare something. Well, we can just decide that we're going to do that. I don't It's not a violation of Yeah, because we're in the open meeting when it be read. Okay. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And he couldn't send that to us in advance to all of us in advance. But if we could do a practice could take it or something. Well, you could you can send it to me. That's true. He could one person. Yeah. Okay. Is what I said what everyone else heard. Yeah. Selection on July. It fits everyone's calendars. So July 22nd we will be done. And I know that would make the district a
082lot happier. Yeah. And then when's the board action to hire it? Yeah. Um, it's the next board meeting after that August 11th. You have to negotiate the contract. It's it's it's just dependent on that how long that may take presumably. So, would July 22nd to August 11th be enough time? Um, so yeah, I'm out of town until August 1st. So, nothing's getting done. Nothing's getting done. Okay. With the contract being negotiated, you have it, vice president. So, typically, and again, I doing a lot of work here. I'm going to be here for this. Oh, no. No. I was here. Would we do it at one of our Monday board meetings in August? Like the Oh, you're not here at the 11th. I just because the contract part is all new and a lot also. I
083just want to make sure like Oh, yeah. We have enough time to do that. We're not under pressure, I don't think, at that point to like Yeah. Yeah. You do the first turn. So you're So now what you're trying to do is in an ideal world, sure, August 11th would be great. I just want us like do we need to meet talking about right now? So normally the motion I I give you a a suggested motion. We'll give suggestion that you can use the night you select the superintendent which usually includes that you're empowering the board president to negotiate on your behalf. Okay. So the contract doesn't have to be done by the time we No, but my ad what I advise what works best is you can start your work with your attorney well
084in advance. You can have a draft contract ready to go even if you want to wait to see who the person is before you plug the final salary number in. Sure. But you can have a draft ready to go and then that can be kind of your first offer to the and which you could do virtually then if you've got a draft ready almost immediately once you make the selection say okay here's a draft give us a reaction to this there may be a negotiation that takes place of course right sure that's the uncertain part how long might the negotiation take but so on the 22nd when we make that selection then we vote to allow Elise to negotiate that July and then so how long do you need to negotiate that well that's what
085no we don't know could go back and forth it could be straight shot you know what I don't think you need more than freaking a week need more than a week then it's your wrong person but should we No seriously because you're gonna you're gonna have the financial numbers from Christine in advance you're going to have a range and you're going to have a we're going to have a range that says this is it no more and if they want more than we can do we can't use that person going to be on our post soon so it should be I will tell you I've already started the work to like figure out how this all works but it is a lot yeah And it is not something it's not just a salary. It's the
086other stuff that's contract. So I just want to make sure we are doing a good job. Right. But all that stuff is already Yeah. You already have you already got a boiler plate. Yeah. Exactly. The current contract. So all I'm asking for is a date. What do you need? Like August 18th, August 25th. Like we need to put a date here. We'll list it as tenative. Let's say the 11th. Board action. August 11th. So there's already a board meeting. I'm just telling everyone probably nothing's going to happen between when we name the person that we're offering and August 3rd. So, unless you have it ready to send them right. Well, they can look over it, but there's not going to be like back and forth. Will that give you enough time when you get back
087from where you're going? Will that give you enough time? August 11. That's why I was definitive. That would be fine. I just Yeah. Okay. Just because I'm not anywhere down that road. They don't know, right? Um Brian says the 21st and the 22nd aren't going to work for him, so we just need a plow. Okay. He's in work. He said it's all day and all night. So, okay. Well, we'll figure it out. Yep. Okay. All right. Um let me just say this though about the the contract. I I will say this. The we want to give candidates the opportunity with their very first contract. That's actually the time when they they need to negotiate on their behalf, right? And it may take a little bit longer partly because it becomes harder once they're in the
088seat and you're negotiating contracts with all your employee groups. Um quite often there's there tends to be some alignment there. So they're really their only opportunity just to have a fresh shot at it and get something in place that they believe is fair is that very first contract that they get. So it may and again it varies from person to person. Sometimes these things happen quickly. Sometimes candidates get their own attorneys involved to review. There could be some back and forth. I would just encourage you to be as okay with that as you can be because once it's done, it's done. It's in place. You've got your person and still steam ahead. Yeah. So, would it be safer to say July 25th then from a tenative date and if we're ready early, we can move
089it up or does it I don't know how important that date is for people action. Yeah. No, I think you're okay with the 11th being the tenative And honestly, you know, once you pick a candidate, how likely is it that one of your internal candidates is going to fail to negotiate a contract and back out, right? Not impossible, but so it's okay. No, we're really No, I So, so in effect, I mean, in terms of the wheels being in motion, the district starting to think about who it is they might need to replace, etc. Once you make your selection, that kind of thinking and discussion and planning can start to take place right away. Okay. So, I'm gonna read that back because I've got this down. I'm gonna update this and get it to you.
090I want to make sure I got it. Thank you. We're gonna post by tomorrow. Posting will close on July 5th. Saturday, July 5th. We're going to meet on Tuesday, July 8th, 6 o'clock. I go into close session. You review your applications. Come back out, determine who you want to interview, pick interview questions, make sure we're ready for the first round. I'll call the candidates that night. Make sure that they know and get them on the schedule. Um, you're going to interview starting at six o'clock each night. You've got meetings on the 14th, 15th, and 16th. 14th and 15th are first round interviews. We'll use both nights if needed. We know that on the 14th it's going to follow a six o'clock board meeting. So, more likely the interviews will start at 6:30. On the 15th,
091they'll start at six o'clock. 16th you come back to select finalists. That'll start at 6 o'clock. That should be a relatively short meeting, too. I wouldn't think any more than an hour if that. Um then the on July 21st you would conduct second round interviews which would include that presentation. Um and on the 22nd you will come back and select your superintendent. We're going to list August 11th as the tenative date for you to take action to officially adopt that contract and hire your new superintendent. So that's um month and a half plus the time that you've worked doing gathering all this information which has got to be what two and a half months. So is it does that seem reasonable or does it still sound rushed? No, I don't if if if I thought
092it was too rushed. I'm not going to be shy about it. I would tell you that. Okay. So I I think it's okay. It's a little bit tight. But again, it's it's also a little bit different. You're talking about people who you already know. So that kind of shrinks the gap, right? In terms of what you need to learn about these people. What it what it means though is you're going to be learning about them in a little bit of a different way. You're going to be really deliberately thinking about them through that lens of the candidate profile and and you know, could this can we envision this person being our next superintendent? But um but I think it can work. Yes. Here's my one question. Yeah. Um if we have screwed up any of
093our candidates time off with these dates, how do boards handle that? If candidates are like, oh yeah, not interview on that day. Yeah. Then it's up to the board and um I will tell you that more often than not, boards have tended to be a little bit hardline about that and said, "Look, if you want it badly enough, you will adjust your plans." But this after going through what you just went through. Yeah. Seven of us. What's the alternative? Right. To accommodate a candidates vacation and then this could potentially entirely blow up and we have to start over. That's up to you. And the district the health of the district. Well, I guess let's just see how it cross that bridge and we get to for the record like it's a possibility. Yeah. I just
094when the posting goes out whose dates will be and can we say on these dates or not? I think personally but um but let's just come up emergency surgery or something. This is the benefit of being an internal candidate guys. You get to like no have a little bit of I want to accommodate you guys accommodated me always. What they don't even remember it accommodate you for you did what you're talking about. I wouldn't. not want to know about. Let's get back on track, guys. I I'll just add this quickly. What is likely to happen anyways once this is all posted and those who are interested are getting ready to apply um my name's going to be in the posting, they can contact me if they see already. Oh my god, I got a They're
095going to say something about that much sooner. Fair enough. All right, I think we have four be done. That was easy. I think that was the hardest part. Piece of cake, right? No, that was that's always the hardest part. Is it really? Okay. That's always the hardest part. Yeah. Don't don't feel bad about that. Um, okay. So, position announcement, you have a draft of that as well, right? And that plugs in. Well, let's go in order, right? Let's start with qualifications. Normally, I advise that you want the qualifications to be broad and inclusive. You can be as picky as you want once you see who's applied. Yeah. I'll give you this example. I've had board members on a board say, "I think this person needs to have a doctorate." Right? Well, now think about how
096you shrink the potential applicant pool versus let's see who's applied and if then you look and you say, "Oh, there's four candidates here who look great and they happen to have doctorates. I'm going to suggest we pick these four candidates to interview." That's when you can be and you have best qualified. That's when you can get pickier. Yeah. So this calls for experience in educational administration, master's degree in a related field, broad experience, classroom experience preferred, not mandatory but preferred and that they got the Michigan administr Michigan administrative certificate or the equivalent of that. Um why is sorry what why is classroom experience not required? Um it just keeps the um the pool more broad. I think given that it's going to be internal applicants um I don't know who your folks are, but um
097if there happens to be somebody who is an administrator in the district and doesn't have classroom experience, do you want to eliminate them out of the gate? That's up to you. This is your call. This that what I've got in front of you is a suggestion, but it's your call. If we need to talk about that, let's do that. I I like it. I like I like that it's it's broader. I don't think we need to work too hard to shrink the pool for the internal search personally. Yeah. Because you could say like, oh, that candidate has never taught or never been in a master room. And then I mean, the truth is I don't know everyone's background in the district. So like I think anyone who wants to apply can apply and we just
098see what we see how it goes. Yeah. I mean that certainly then would become if that's important to you even if you have an applicant who doesn't have it and you decide to interview when you're going through the selection process narrowing the field making your final call. Yes. That in your mind can be a relevant factor that's going to carry some weight in your decision making which is fine. Right. Okay. So you're gonna you're okay with basically what it says here. Yep. All right. Yeah. the candidate profile. I'll I'll just quickly reiterate. It took the top 10 from the online survey. It took um the top responses when you all met and discussed it, put them together in some cases where I thought I could combine so that this didn't become an enormous list. I
099did that um so that it was inclusive but it didn't get to be gargantuan. So, and again, this is a draft so we can adjust this in any way you think we should. aren't necessarily ordered in any particular way. They're not. And again, if you feel like there should be like if if you see something here that should be first. We can change the order. We can reword, we can eliminate, we can have something else. I presume that when this was done, it was because it was in the order of the the survey essentially. Yes. So that it's more randomized as a result. I mean, it's like it's like carefully randomized. Is that a fair assessment or not? what it's if there's any order to it. I suppose what you probably I'd have to go
100back and look to be honest, but the ones you see closer to the top are likely the ones where more respondents pick that majority percentage. Okay. Higher percentage, right? I think it would be wise to make sure the first like five are really meaningful to the board. So I would move like one, two, three, the fifth bullet point to I like number one. I would move number f number five to number two for example. Yeah, I would move three down because I remember looking at the surveys and it seemed like t talent wasn't really something that we were really I would move yeah I would strong ethical standards. I know we're talking about just the board but I'm going to disagree with you and Yeah. and whatever you want to do is fine. I think
101it just looks at the all we represent the community not just that's vote for the community. So I think I'm not sure if it changes anything but yeah it's just not like a it's not a randomized sample who responded. So I think it's fair for our we were elected to represent the community and I think that we do know what a superintendent needs to be. So I think it's fair for us to select from this list of qualities that people have I agree elevated to say the people who look at this listing in our community are going to say what is the board caring about the most. So the first one has to be academic success and achievement just I'll just throw this out there. What I have seen some boards do when they're going
102through this type of process is I'll use this example is the next to last bullet point of the front page student centered leader quite often what they'll elevate towards the top are those that focus on students. Yeah. Are these are these just characterization or are they in order of importance? They're not they're not like some of them are weighted because the the percentages were higher and but they're not because because leads with integrity is higher than and he combined them into one threw that out of wax. It's not a true perfect. Yeah. I mean leads with integrity is on the very back and I think it's not going to Okay. Okay. Yeah. Where is that? I don't know. The one on the back says um critical thinker knows operates with strong ethical standards, high level
103integrity. And I did see that. I saw integrity like Yeah. Yeah. Let's make who can find the integrity one. That number three. Yeah. Let's flip-flop those. Yeah. All right. So, I'm gonna So, the first one is okay to be number two. You'd like to be what? Uh fifth one. Fifth one. Finances. You want to flip-flop the finances? No, I think two should be operates with integrity. You do? I do. Okay. Because then if you do, you also have good hopefully financial acumen. Okay, that's fine. At least honestly then make the financial one number three. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Rock talent down accessibility though. That's so look for number four. Let's not Wait, what's the third one? Is it approachable? Do you want to make that four is approachable? Third one's the finance one. The fifth currently
104the fifth board I What's the second bullet? The second one is this. We should have the live live version up on the screen. We can just move them around. And then Okay, I got finances. Three. What's four? One, prioritize academic success. Two, operates with integrity. I'ming three, ability to maintain financial health. Yes. Right. Four. Four. Approachable and accessible. Sure. That's what I think. Just touchable and accessible currently. Number two. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Critical thinker. I would just drop the the talent stuff like to the second page. What about student centered? Yeah. Strong partnerships. Number five. I don't know where it is on this page. It's the second one up on the bottom. On the first page. That's five. Yeah. What was four? Yeah. After after the top number two. I personally don't because I just
105think that people who are interested in what are they looking for in a superintendent is going to read the first like our candidates need to read all of them and Sure. So I think the top five that's what came out on the survey. That's the What about the safe and secure environment? I do like that with all the like Yes. Make that number six. Yeah, that should be six. Oh yes. Thank you. How about leads with treating everybody with dignity and respect. And then we're good you guys. After that it's that's the top seven. That's pretty good. We're only going to cast seven or everything's staying in here. These were just wanted to have attention span drops after think strategically for short. It was more just like what do people's eye exactly? I'm happy with
106that now. Leaves with models with the models. Yeah. So, I've got that. I'm gonna be hopeful. We're gonna want this ready to be posted tomorrow. So, I will make those changes to get this. Yeah. I don't want And we don't want to belabor too much for you. Yeah. That's I appreciate that. But should I just be sending this to you? Uh, sure. Okay. Because I got to figure out how we do this now. Could we just say like leads with kindness, caring with kindness, caring, and empathy? Does it have to say leads with and models? Well, because they want to also be an example. They want to be Aren't you an example of that? if you're leading with that. I don't know. Well, I I guess I wouldn't parse it. Well, I can certainly make
107that change as I read that you can make decisions and it can come from a place of kindness and caring and empathy and and you know bearing that in mind. Modeling it means you're up and about. You're in buildings. You're you're consciously modeling that and portraying that. So, can we eliminate it? Sure. No, I mean you don't need to, but I like the idea of models in terms of supporting groups and you know just different Okay, we've got our top. Okay, I agree. Okay, salary. Yeah, salary. Here we go. So, normally it's you're setting a ceiling in the floor for salary, but as you know too, there can be many other forms of compensation. This is where the negotiation probably more than any place. Once you agree on salary, now it gets into number of
108vacation days. You're going to offer a tax sheltered annuity. Do you do anything for um travel expenses? Whatever. There's all sorts of other things that can be included. But but what you normally put in the posting is the ceiling in the floor for salary. You know that. So I have been working on this. My recommendation is to say 175 to 195. Okay. With all the compensations that actually go. Yes. Okay. If We go with that. Chris started 153 156. He's currently at 188. Yeah, this was his first and this is this is base salary without Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's this was in 1818. How much is How much are Chelsea and Seline making? Um, I don't know Chelsea's. I just thought Seline's new contract. I'm like actively working on trying to like pull information together
109and then I'm probably going to do a pull our negotiation group together to like look at the contract stuff. Okay. I'm trying I'm learning as I'm flying the planes. So I don't know these numbers. So I'll go with what you're re you know what I mean I guess my my feeling I what I like is um giving like a bonus. So starting a little bit lower and then giving a bonus over time or some sort of you know like a retention bonus or something like that. So I mean I guess my thinking we don't want that in here though right? Okay so let's talk about that just in terms of the range though I looked at what our current what we are currently paying for the current job of superintendent in Dexter that gives he
110has 18 years 20 years of experience. That's true. I don't think that which is why the starting is is the lower there is a lower number here that we could start under however the job is the job in some ways too. So I want to be like and and part of what you can do is is depending on what you want to get in other types of benefits you could decide we're going to keep the the salary lower and compensate that way or we'd rather put it more in salary and give less in other forms of compensation. That's where that negotiation, right? That's why I don't want to start out at the high end. Well, this does say a preliminary salary range. So, it doesn't specify 165 is going to be the minimum if that's
111what you put down. And if you want to be absolute, I can take out the word preliminary, too. We don't always use that. So, because there are times with these where candidates will ask me, well, do you think the board will go any higher than this? And when it doesn't say preliminary, my answer is a flat. No. This is intended to indicate that they won't go any lower than 175, but they will not go any higher than 195 in salary, but that doesn't preclude you from negotiating other forms of compensation. I mean, the superintendent salaries that are out there right now are significant. So Chris's contract is is not what it would be if he were to be hired by us right now. Like people are getting paid quite a bit for superintendent salaries. wins
112them, doesn't he? Yeah. Oh, yeah. There's lots of Well, there are lots of his contract is also complicated and my advice to the board that we need to make it a much cleaner contract duration like what's the typical duration of a contract? So, this says multi-year contract typically in almost every case with with the first time superintendent is three years virtually always. two years really isn't good enough job security and to give more than three for somebody who hasn't been in the seat yet is probably excessive. Three seems to be the sweet spot. You could say that but but multi-year gives you a little bit of wiggle room too. On the average SI in the state's only been around three and a half years I think that's correct. But I see what you're saying, Jen.
113Like Chris has been here 18 years and he's at 188 and we're going to start at 175. Well, he's at 188. That's base salary. Bonus base salary. Yeah. But then there's 15 there's 30 another when he's fully compensate he's close to 300. Yeah. Yeah. And you're saying that going forward we're not it's less than I've added up the but he meets almost all the fine. Yeah. He meets everyone but he's that contract was written for him which is why it wouldn't be the same for the next person. Easy. But based on your thoughts this is okay. I think it is too. I think this range is fair. I think that some districts have posted positions for a lot less and I don't necessarily think that's fair. I don't know what they ended up I don't
114know that all of those I've been watching various places and I don't know that all of those are probably available for what they ended on either. I just like, like I said, I I don't I don't need to repeat it, you know, if everybody else is fine with it, but I like the idea of of giving um increases as the as the skill set increases and also a a um benefit for staying because it's a hard job. This is a really hard job. That's why you don't want to go too low, right? But you also want to give them a reward and something to to to you wanted them to renew the contract. You're gonna have to give them an increase. The other honest thing is we pay we have done a good job paying
115people in Dexter. So a little bit if we want people to take a relentless job in Dexter, we have to make it worth their while to switch to this job from where they already are. That was my other thing. I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with it, but what I'm saying is I suspect that the internal candidates know what he's making and what bonuses he's getting and they know all these contracts. What you don't want to run into is um when you start negotiating with, well, Chris got this, I want that, Chris got this, I want that. And then it's going to be like, well, you're starting out at a much, you know, everything's much more expensive now, but you're starting out at a first time superintendent. Yeah. I don't know. And he wasn't. That's true,
116too. He was He already came to Do you want to make it just I don't know. I think that's fine. Were you thinking like 175 or 165? I don't know. But that again, I haven't seen the other numbers. So, I mean, when you look at county, all the numbers are here if you want to look at them. do is not the highest paid innoc county. It only goes to 2022 I think in there. Yes. So 171. Um but that's not current contract 155. We also have Whitmore Lake is 143. Manchester 133. Of course it's a lot smaller so you can't really Ipsy is 110. Just as an example because I just did the Manchester. That's the base. You don't know what Yeah, that's the base. You don't know what the incentives but that's what we're
117talking about here. We're talking about business. Yeah. But that's what the current superintendent's making, right? That's the publish. Yeah. 2022. 2022. The most recent data on and we have four districts, maybe five in this ISD who are getting new superintendents who are going to have new contracts. And I would not anticipate negotiating bonus structure with a brand new superintendent. I just I wouldn't see that. Selene's knew what I was making. I'm sorry. what some of the things are just so I can get a picture. What are some of the things that take him up to 260 that you're saying would not be given to the new superintendent? Well, it there's an annual increase. There's an innovation and collaboration clause. That's 8% of his base salary. Okay. Then there's education pay. That's for his doctorate. Eight
1188% on top. Then there's annuity. That's 26 grand. And then he had longevity. Chris's situation was different, too. They did a single candidate search. They knew who they wanted. They structured the contract just for him. Are you sure? Yeah. Um I talked to Vic and I talked to Julie and they me with the stories. Yeah. They went out and talk. They went out and talking. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, um I don't want to split hairs, but well, if you're feeling like we should drop it to 165 to 195, I mean, I don't care about having a window if that's is that one of the things you were thinking. I just like I said, if Chris's base is 188. Yeah. I just think 175 is really very close. I mean, I think it should be at
119least 20%. Just I I in the world of like negotiating things, I don't think it's going to hurt to give you a little more wiggle room at 165. Okay. Then if they come in and you negotiate a contract for 175, you look like a superstar. Okay. Well, it's all going to be I mean, you can fight about this later, but I'm going to hold my line here, guys. Okay. Well, I I if we're going to get it posted tomorrow, you need to have it. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. I'm just saying like when we get to the point where we're offering a contract, I'm still going to make the same argument. That's fair. And people can vote me down. I'm just saying that let's drop the window 165 to 195. Is that what you guys
120are thinking? Can I suggest if you're going to drop it go below 170 typically you won't see a range bigger than 25,000. Oh, okay. 165 to what you say 170 to 195. 170 to that that seems more reasonable. 170 divided by 198 sounds good. It's I'm fine. Yeah. 80 89% I'm just telling you we're going to have the argument again, but I'm going to have a lot more data by then. Okay. But, you know, thank you for doing the research. So, we at least had an idea. Yes. No, I think Yeah. Yeah. That's almost 90% of what Chris is. Yeah. Yeah. So, like I mean, I did not have to make sure it was appropriate to bring here. So, and I just feel like giving them a I don't know. I just All right, we're
121through C. Yay. Um, but just to to finish up, obviously you see application procedure on here. I'll change that deadline date. I'll update the timeline. Otherwise, it's pretty standard. So, that's good. You have to post this in the sometimes. Post it in the suns. That's our local newspaper. Well, um I would suggest you don't have to because it's internal only. Yeah, I think we won't even as an organization, I don't think you want us, which we normally would do, post it. Um because what would happen is that it would be confusing to candidates in other places if you at some point I mean look you have to entertain the possibility at least too right that you could go through this and if you're unconvinced that that the right person to be your next superintendent currently
122works for the organization at that point we'd have to then talk about okay where do we go from here now this is going to look different now we're outside that's right outside and we would have to post so if it's an internal focus He was posted to all everybody on the website. So, you're posting it on our school website. He's I'm going to submit it to you and then it's going to be up to you folks to get it posted internally. He's going to send it to me. Okay. I will work with Chris and hope to make sure it goes the right way. Yeah. Well, I think I'm sure it will just get emailed out way. Okay. I think you said the right people. I said, "No, no, the right Yeah, that that gets it
123gets communicated correctly." I'm assuming it will be an all staff announcement or something like that. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Um I I can make this last part actually very quick. Um expectations, roles, and responsibilities, points of contact. Right now, basically, I'm communicating with you at least. Is that okay to continue? Is totally fine if everyone's okay. Sorry. With the understanding, by the way, just like it works when you have a superintendent, one board member gets information, all board members get the same information, right? Just because she's the point of contact doesn't mean she's going to be privy to things that you're all not right. So I'll promise you that we have no Yeah. No, she's good about just sharing everything with her. But I'm but I'm right on board with Yeah, we're not worried about that.
124Don't worry about that. Um so I would So then question it's easier for me to frankly it makes more sense if the communication goes that way. So I want you if you have questions or concerns to ask them. I would just ask funnel them through a lease. Sure. And then again, the answers to any questions are going to go back to all of you. You sure? You guys see some I'll I'll share it through the proper Yeah. through the blind copy. So commitments. All I'm asking of you is follow this process with fidelity, right? Um yeah, part of the reason you brought us in is because we have experience with this. We've done this, right? We have a process that's tried and true. It works. Um, this is a bit of a modified version because
125it's internal only, but fundamentally it's still our process. Um, so trust the process, follow it to a tea, and it should lead you where you need to be. Um, my commitment to you is just that I'm going to be stuck to you like blue until this is done. I I'll be easily accessible. I'll get get you what you need. Um, I think at least knows already. They're not hard to track down if readily available if you have questions, concerns, and so it'll stay that way right through the process. That's a commitment. Um, and you know, our our guarantee with these things is, you know, that we stick with you until it's done. So, you know, again, in the event that you get to the end of the process and don't know what you found the
126right person yet, that'll be the next conversation. Talk about what those next steps might have to look like. We would talk about adjusting the fee, but I'm not going to get crazy on with that because it would be an more expanded process. Yeah. So, I don't expect us to be there. I just feel better saying that. Um, yes. What kind of more research do you do if we ask questions like as an example? She was asking about and we already pulled up anyways. Most stuff's available for us to find in the website. Does somebody ask you questions on comparisons to other Yeah. If you have questions like that and you need me to do some leg work for you, I will do that. Most we could find like you found in two seconds and I
127know it's out there. I found it before we negotiated versus contract because I had a lot of questions down and I when you research it across the board it's like it's hard to get a full picture though like you said because there's all these other parts of the contract but you could but all the contracts are out there if we wanted to pull them. Yeah. And they and they have like sometimes they have to range fully compensated. Well, and I'm trying to collect I'm trying to get some information together. It's just we need we do need to be thoughtful about that stuff and making sure that we are deliberating at the right time and place. So, we just need to figure out the best way to share out stuff and think about we negotiate contracts
128and that could be a closed door to meet it too. I don't know all the yet there yet. We're not even there yet. But I was saying but if it comes to that that could be a closed session. and it goes publicly to a decision. That makes sense because all of our all of our negotiation contracts, but like the whole board is there though, right? Well, we do. Yeah. The negotiation team meets on our behalf, but we come in close our session and it brought to us and we kind of discuss it, but then it goes out public once it's like Okay. Like I say, I'm just not You're Yeah, that wasn't your We're not in that frame of mind. Yeah. But but even that if that's a question that you have and you want
129to if you're at 99% certainty you want to get to 100 and you need me to clarify that for you tell me and I will do that. Yeah. I mean basically we want to follow the law right. Yes you do. And that's part of my job is to help make sure that you do. Yeah. That's Yeah. Very helpful. Okay. I think I have what I need to be able to turn this around get this posting uh to you by no later than tomorrow morning. Okay. you'll be able to go ahead and blast it out within the district. Your your internal candidates will know what they need to do. They can contact me if they have questions or concerns because this does say they should not be contacting you, right? Contacting me. Okay. Thanks for your
130guidance on us. Sure. Of course. I'm I'm glad you picked us and I'm happy to help. Perfect. Thank you very much. Good. All right. We Anybody else have anything else? All right. We will adjourn the meeting at 7:30.