001All right. So, it is Saturday, November 8th, 9:05 a.m. And I am calling our special board meeting of West Schools to order. I am going to ask for everyone to please stand for the pledge. And Mr. I pledge alce to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you so much. Next on our agenda 1726, roll call. Miss Thomas. >> Yes. >> Mr. Alers, >> present. Miss Adne Mitchell >> present. >> Dr. Weaver >> present. >> Miss Hans present. Mr. Rashan >> present [cough and clears throat] >> and President May >> present. >> All right we got six more. >> Thank you. We are now at 168.26 citizens comments on agenda items. I do
002not see any citizens citizens this morning. So we will move on to 169.26 recognitions and presentations and I would like to introduce Mr. John Sillery and Mrs. Sheila Els with the Michigan Leadership Institute. >> Thank you for being here. >> Thank you. >> Morning everyone. >> Glad to be back. Seems like a long time since uh we I was with you last when we were doing a presentation in July I think. Right. So it's nice to be here and to get the ball rolling. excited to get things started. So, you've met me before and I won't go through an introduction, but Sheila is going to be accompanying me throughout this search. So, she let me give you a chance to introduce yourself, please. >> Thank you, John. Good morning, everyone. >> I'm Sheila Alice and
003I bring to the work that I am doing with Michigan Leadership Institute to help you with your superintendent search a career of 47 years in public education. I spent 21 years in Plymouth Canton schools. I was the classroom teacher, curriculum coordinator, curriculum director. Then I went to Leavonia public schools and I was an elementary principal, director of elementary programs, director of academic services. And then in my last nine years, I served as chief academic officer. I was about ready to retire when I received a phone call from the then superintendent, state superintendent Brian Wilson, who asked me if I was interested in coming to the Department of Ed, Michigan Department of Ed to be his chief deputy superintendent. So I did and I was at the Michigan Department of Ed for five years. I served
004as chief deputy superintendent until the very unfortunate um and unexpected passing of Brian Wson and then I became the interim state superintendent and I filled that role for about a year and a half and then I was asked if I wanted the job permanently. I said thank you very much but no thank you. While I really enjoyed working with the people in the department of ed, I didn't like the politics in Lancing and it just wasn't a good fit for me. So, the board hired Dr. Michael Rice as the new state superintendent and I went back to my chief deputy role and I stayed to help with his transition and then COVID hit and when CO hit I stayed a little bit longer. Um, I've been retired for about four years and during that time
005I have uh taken on the lovely task of mentoring women in their career ladder decisions both in the private and public sector. I work with MLI on superintendent searches. This is my first one. But I also do professional development for MLI in the topic is instructional leadership uh focusing on spirit superintendent and city superintendent. and I've written uh probably a dozen articles co-authored with another former state superintendent Tom Watkins on education reforms been published in Detroit News Detroit free press Detroit and uh bridge Michigan I've been adjunct professor of literacy at Madonna University both the graduate and undergrad level and I am very excited to be with all of you today and to be part of your superendent search to bring you the very best slate of candidates so that you'll have a superintendent that's
006the best fit for your district. You're welcome. >> So, can I know some of you, Sheila, I don't think knows any of you. So, can we take just a minute? We'll be working closely together for the next several months. Maybe just a brief introduction. Tell us how long you've been on the board and then just maybe a little bit about yourself, whatever you're comfortable sharing, career, family, whatever that might be. We'd like to jump in. >> I will start since I was just in. >> So, my name is Melanie Hines. I've been on the Wayne Wesley Board of Education for over 11 years and we've known Mr. quite some time. Um I sit on the Wayne County Women's Commission. Um I work president of um Coronas Clubs. So we do a lot of the literacy
007with the kids. I just started working at Starfish Family Services with the preschoolers and I just love being on the board working in the community. >> Thank you. >> So I'm Kimberly May. I have been on the board for five years. I am also an educator. um over yeah close to 30 years. Um we do have a connection with state community schools. That's where I am currently employed. Um let's see. Yeah, that's pretty much it. >> I'm Lana Avenue Mitchell. I've been on the board for three years. Um, I work closely with In Gun Violence Michigan, um, advocating for the new laws and the safety laws in the parents, in the homes with the kids and everything. >> Andrew, uh, this is my, uh, first year on the board. Um, I'm an engineer at Fort
008Company. >> Shannon Roshan. That's my first year on the board. Um, I do a lot of the community work for uh, nonprofit and does a lot of president for 22 years. Um, I love classic cars. >> Thank you. >> Nice to meet all of you. >> All right. So, you've got the agenda, our agenda for the meeting in front of you. Um, goals and expectations. So, as far as this particular meeting goes, we're going to be reviewing the search process in great detail. Um, so we'll give you a chance throughout that to ask any questions you have and raise any concerns that you might have. We'll spend time gathering just some basic information that's going to facil help facilitate the search. Um, and we really want to make sure more than anything else that you
009walk out of here as fully informed as possible, feeling really comfortable with what's going to be taking place, understanding your role in it, and having all of your questions answered. Right? So, um you should walk out of here fully confident that you're ready to get rolling. Um as far as the process goes, um the biggest things with the process is we're going to be asking you to trust the process and follow the process. Um again, if there are things within the process that we may need to tweak and talk about, we'll do that today. But once we end the meeting today, we should all be on the same page. And the way this works best is if we go full steam ahead and we do exactly what we plan to do. It's a process that
010for us is tried and true. Uh there are variances from district to district at times, right? But we've been doing this work in the organization since 1998. Personally, I've done over three dozen searches. I've never stopped to actually count. Maybe around 40, I'm going to guess. um and have tweaked things over time based on experience, but it it works. It's effective and uh I think if we all stay on the same page, we'll end up with great results. So, we want it to be seamless, inclusive, transparent, thorough, is what we're going to be aiming for. Um and it's going to be important as we do that that we instill confidence in your constituents. So when they see you following this process with fidelity, um they will have greater confidence in the choice that you make
011in the end. So that's really important. And ultimately, obviously, what that's going to lead to, we're confident, is that you're going to hire the right person for Wayne Westland Schools at this time and place. One of the things I know your new superintendent is going to be doing is overseeing uh the bond projects that will go along with the bond that you just passed. Congratulations on that. So, that'll be huge. Um, and the biggest thing I want to really stress with all of that is it's an opportunity for you really to demonstrate unity throughout this process, and that's going to be really important. There could be disagreements along the way, but honestly, the the process itself kind of facilitates you all doing things kind of hand inand lockep. You might not agree along the way
012on some of the choices that you have to make in terms of who you'd like to interview, who you'd like to advance as finalists, and even the final choice. But [clears throat] regardless, the way we'll go about this, we'll do this in a way that you can reasonably express disagreements. Um, but ultimately all come together, which is going to be again best for you, best for your new superintendent, best for your district. and it will leave those folks who are going to be watching closely with great confidence that you've gone about it the right way and that you've made a great choice. You have any questions about any of that? All right. So, for item three on the agenda, points of contact and modes of communication, what we typically do is it's the board president
013and administrative assistant who we are most closely in contact with. So, it' be Kimberly and Kim. That's not to say that um as I communicate with Kimberly or we do that Kimberly is getting information that the rest of you aren't, but it's just more efficient if we have that one point of contact. So for Kim, it's more about logistics and those types of things. For Kimberly, it's any questions along the way that you might have, any concerns along the way that you might have, we want you to express them. We just typically ask that it goes through the board president. she'll contact us, but then any questions or concerns that need to be answered, that goes out to all of you. Just like with a good superintendent, right? No surprises and any information that one
014board member gets, all board members get. We operate exactly the same way. But we simply do that through the board president, questions or concerns about that at all. >> So, if I was to contact you, you will redirect me back to the board president. Well, I would kindly probably remind you that that's the way we prefer to do it. I would very likely go ahead and answer your question since you you got me on the phone or whatever the case might be. But what we're asking is that yes, typically what you would do is okay, you've got a question, you're not understanding something, whatever. Get a hold of Kimberly. Um, she'll get the question to me. Chances are there may be somebody else who's wondering the same thing. So then that answer will go out
015to by email to all board members. >> Okay. I mean, I like that. I appreciate that. >> Sure. >> I appreciate your process. >> Very nice. Thank you. >> All right. No questions on that. We're getting to item four. Um I'd like to forewarn board members when we get to this portion of the agenda that um we've been racing right along. This is where we're going to be stuck for a while. Item, this is where the bulk of our conversation is going to take place. uh because step by step as we go through the timeline, we're going to be reviewing all of the search activities, adding some detail, answering questions, and again, the goal is to make sure that we are 100% in sync as we do that. >> So, if you would make sure
016you got the timeline, too, that you've got that in front of you now as well. We're going to walk through this and um fill in some blanks and and answer questions and talk about these things in greater detail. Now, so um obviously we start with this meeting this morning. The next step is going to be to collect stakeholder feedback and we normally do that both by an online survey and by face-toface meetings. The online survey in particular is going to be important because it makes sure that anybody and everybody who wants to have input has a chance to do that. Everybody, right? Because it goes out in any way that you can communicate it. We'll leave that to you folks. But whatever your normal mode of communication is to get word out to your constituents,
017that's what you'll do. We're going to provide a survey link to [snorts] your district and all you're going to need to do is blast that link out. The results will come back to us. We'll compile those results, summarize them, and we'll get that information to you. You'll end up seeing all the survey results. You're not going to have to do anything with it, but just so that you're well informed. You'll see everything that we get, but we're going to take those survey results and um kind of put most common themes together to get some basic information. And then the face toface meetings um it's just an opportunity for those folks who like to have that face-to-face contact. There are always people in every school community like that. Even though they have a chance to answer
018the online survey, we give them a chance to meet us face to face. Um there are a lot of similarities to that. And if you're curious to know kind of what we're asking in the survey, go to we'll take a peek ahead on the agenda. We're going to spend a little bit of time there, but those are the basic questions that we're asking in the survey. What are the key candidate skills, abilities, and characteristics that you think the next superintendent needs to have in order to be highly successful here in Wayne Westland? Why should an education leader want to be your next superintendent? That kind of goes to your top strengths and attractive features of your district. Part of what we want to do for the um position announcement is include some of that information
019because we're trying to entice people to be interested and take a look and perhaps decide this may be a good fit and want to apply. So, one of the questions that we ask and then what are the primary challenges your new leader will need to address? That could be really informative um and it could be helpful frankly um as we talk to prospective candidates and applicants. Um, they should know that. They really should. And frankly, if they see what those challenges are and they feel like it's not something that they want to deal with or they feel like maybe I'm not the best person to address this, frankly, you're better off if they don't throw their head in the ring and don't apply. It's also better than if they do apply that they know what
020they're going to be getting themselves into and they made the decision that I do think I'm up to this and and I'm eager to take on these challenges and that's exactly what you want. So, that could be helpful information. >> I Another quick question for the online survey. Is there um a limit to the number of times you can take it based on IP address or is it something that you can take multiple times? >> It's more the honor system. Okay. >> Very honestly, right? So, we don't track it. I I think there may be an opportunity to take it more than once, but I'm not 100% sure about that. >> Okay. >> Um I will say this though that that you know again even though you're giving a lot of people the opportunity, those
021who are really interested will go ahead and jump in. You would think in a district of this size that you'd be overwhelmed with responses. You probably won't be, but you're going to get a healthy amount of responses, I would think. And once we collect those, you're going to know how many people have responded as well. What we're looking for more than anything is just um the most frequent responses, especially to that first question, which when we put those together, and we're going to get those same responses from you, and we see what the most common themes are. Those are what we put together to help determine what are those particular characteristics that you're looking for in your next superintendent. It's not a one-sizefits-all uh situation, right? So, there may be people out there who are
022very skilled and capable and qualified and who could be outstanding superintendents and maybe are already, but they may not be a good fit here. Right? So that's where that candidate profile comes into play and can really help you identify what's what what does this person who's going to be a fit here for us need to bring to the table. The good news for you too is suppose there was a concern that maybe somebody tried to stack the deck and and responded several times. You're going to get the final say over the candidate profile. We'll put those responses together and we'll create a draft profile. But ultimately that goes back to you and if you feel that things need to be tweaked in any way, if there's something that we overlooked, whatever the case might be,
023um you're going to have a chance to weigh in and make those final changes. >> Um so in the face to face meetings, go ahead. >> Is the survey anonymous or they be able to let us know who they want to? We we have a something in there that allows them to identify if it's a student, a staff member, a parent, a community member. Sometimes they can check multiple boxes because several of those things fit. And so we could even give you the results broken down by that if you would find that to be helpful. It's not going to identify the person specifically, >> okay? >> By category, you would. And part of the reason that these things come to us too, the results come to us, is if there's anybody who's concerned in any
024way, shape, or form that you're going to know how they responded. Um, the results come directly to the Michigan Leadership Institute. We couldn't care less who, >> right? We don't care. We're not digging into IP addresses or anything else. We're just looking at at the responses, compiling those, putting the most common responses together. That's our only interest. So even if that concern was raised by anybody within the district that's an easy response is that you don't get those uh survey responses directly. >> No thanks. >> Thank you. >> Sure. So the face toface meetings um at the same time the survey is out we Sheila and I will meet with stakeholders in the community. Um so we like to include high school students. Um, it's nice to hear from those kids and they're old enough
025and savvy enough and frankly from doing this many many times. Honestly, I would say sometimes the the best responses we get are from the high school kids. It's really valuable. So, we'd be looking to do that. We meet with staff members as well and typically we'll we'll schedule those meetings so that we have something available for secondary staff members very shortly after student dismissal and then we do something a little bit later. Elementary dismissal comes later um after the elementary kids are up for elementary schools. Right. >> When you're talking about meeting with um meeting with teachers or holding teachers, whatever the case may be, would you randomly pick them because we don't need to go into the union thing? >> Do you know what I mean? >> I do. But so no, we don't.
026In fact, what we do is um we set up these meetings and we the only meeting actually that's limited where we we pick students we pick participants is for high school students and there we usually enlist the high school principles to help us. We tell them that we'd like a representative group of students. We don't want them to all be honor students. We we like a mix. Um, so they sometimes will use an existing group like student council if they think that fits the bill or they'll just kind of pick a group of kids to meet with us. That's the only one that's limited. Otherwise, we're saying anybody who wants to come is welcome to which your constituents typically appreciate. So many people I will tell you most people will choose to do the online
027survey, right? These people are busy. That's what they would prefer to do and that's how they'll spend their time. But for those who like that personal touch and like to have that personal communication, we give them the opportunity. So I'll tell you in advance that those meetings are typically not heavily attended. They're just not right. But part of what you're accomplishing as a board is you want this to be inclusive and transparent. You're providing people up to the opportunity. So if you'd like to do the online survey, everybody's going to have it and have a chance. If you'd like a personal interaction, you're going to have that opportunity, too. unlimited, right? Um, and for anybody, you know, there are sometimes people have conflicts, they can't make it, but again, the fallback is they have the
028online survey for them. And with two of us, Sheila and I, you've got a large district. Um, we could stagger this or structure it in a way. For example, this this I'll think about the elementaryaries, right? If we were to do one meeting for elementary staff members after dismissal, um, whatever building we choose to have this at, um, a lot of those staff members may come, but probably not too many of the others, especially those who have a longer drive. We can divide and conquer a bit and we'll work with your folks um, with Kim and and Catherine to look at what might work best. So, we can schedule them maybe in a couple of different locations to try to make it easier for people to get there. Um >> yeah and so and we
029build a schedule around that and we would do something later for parents and community members. I used to separate that had a meeting for community members and a meeting for parents and just realized over time that it didn't really make any sense to separate them. It would be basically the same folks coming anyway. So we just do a meeting and and for anybody who thinks, well my gosh, if you have a meeting for parents and community members, you're going to be overwhelmed. We wish we would be overwhelmed, but that never happens. No matter the size of the district, large districts, small districts, it just doesn't happen. But again, part of that's a function of having people have the opportunity to do the online survey, right? Sometimes they just prefer that. So then we back it
030up and earlier in the day during the course of the school day um we meet with administrators separately and we ask administrators not to come to the other meeting so that they there's not a chilling effect in terms of the responses um and then at sometime during the day that we meet with students as well. We are going to ask you invite you not to come to these meetings right for the same reason. You may be very nice people, but you're authority figures. And we want people to to give unvarnished, honest responses. And so, it's best that you're not going to be there. You'll see what the responses are. We'll share them with you. Um, and then administrators, only their meeting and not to come to the rest. Kimberly, >> I think you answered it,
031but I'm going to say it. I'm thinking about right. So, you'll do one for administrators, but then the one for teachers is really for all staff and community members. Well, if for staff members, so we would have a time after secondary dismissal and a time after elementary dismissal. And again, we can split up and have those in a couple locations. >> For staff members [clears throat] who don't fit a definition, aren't considered an elementary or secondary, we just put a broad invitation out. Um, custodians, we want to make sure that they have that opportunity, right? They can attend either of those meetings, obviously, whatever fits if if they don't fit into one of those categories. >> Okay. And then that is kind of um what I want to say expressed. You know that no group
032feels like they were left out of the process. >> Very important. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. The the intent is to be as inclusive as possible and to make this as wide open so anybody who would like to come can do so. >> Um and to differentiate a little bit part of it is these same questions. We'll hit on those. I'll encourage people if they haven't already to go ahead and take the online survey, but we'll ask them maybe just to highlight when it comes, for example, candidate skills, abilities, and characteristics rather than having them do a huge laundry list, which they can do on the survey, it may be more or is there one thing or two things that just jump out at you that you think are absolutely essential for your new superintendent
033to bring to this district? And so it's going to help us highlight some of those things. But part of it then is an opportunity to review the process with those folks. They're obviously interested enough to spend time. So we'll go through the process and we'll emphasize how they can stay engaged and involved throughout the rest of the process and answer any questions or concerns that they might have. And one of the questions we like to ask them in those groups is do you have any um suggestions for the board as they uh embark on this very important undertaking? Right. Anything that you want, put on their radar and we would then pass any suggestions they have along to you. >> John, do you ask at the stakeholder meetings? Do you [clears throat] do you excuse
034me, do you ask if there are any potential candidates that stakeholders would like to recommend? >> We do. Um, and that's important, too. So, we'll share our contact information and they can share that directly with us. And we don't do that right at the meeting. We don't want people kind of shouting out names and and you know we'd like that to be private. So what we do is we invite and and we'll be doing the same with you. Um there may be candidates out there that um somebody in your organization, your school community thinks, man, this would be this person would be a perfect fit for us. They're qualified. We would hope they would apply. We don't like to leave things to chance. We would hope they would apply too. But recruitment helps. So if
035any names that we get like that we will reach out to and the way that conversation goes is we say somebody in the school community we try to we pretty non-specific about that deliberately but somebody in the school community has indicated that you might be a good fit for this position. Um and we try to just bring their attention to it. So we may have some of those conversations before the position announcement is posted in January. But regardless, what we like to do is share that position announcement with them, encourage them to take a close look, and then reach back out to us with any questions or concerns they might have. So, we're doing a little bit of gentle, friendly arm twisting. You know, we don't want to convince somebody who would be a poor
036fit or who really prefer not to be here to apply. But there may be folks out there who for whatever reason they may see the opening, hear about it, but for whatever reason they're busy people and they just don't kind of act on it. Recruitment can make a huge difference. I know for a fact that that I've been involved in searches where it was only because we recruited somebody that they applied and it was that person who ended up becoming the next superintendent of the school district. So it can make a huge difference and we'll be inviting you and your constituents to share those names with us. Question. >> Yes. So is there like a amount of applicants like the lease that we extended? Say we don't get a whole lot of applicants like we
037want or [clears throat] sorry. >> Okay. >> Or we get like a maximum. Is it like a cut off point to how many applicants or how lease or >> No. Um, [clears throat] and sometimes boards will say, "Well, how many should we expect?" I'll tell you that that um, within the last several years, we don't get as many applicants for superintendencies as we used to. This is a tough It's always been a tough job. Uh, it's gotten that much more difficult. I would say probably postco >> um, it's it can be ugly, right? You know, >> difficult year too because it's like education so messed up right now. >> Absolutely. And so it's it's a It's a really difficult job and it's not for the faint of heart and frankly we just don't see as
038many applicants as we used to. So where we used to see more in the ballpark, I would say this is very general. It changes from district to district, maybe 25 to 30 applicants. Now typically it's more in the 15 to 20 range. And that's it could be different here, right? But what I like to to remind boards of is it's not about the quantity, it's about the quality. You could have 30 applicants, but if you only have one or two that are even worth considering, that's not a great candidate pool. You can have 12 applicants and if eight of them are strong applicants, that's a great candidate pool, right? So, I would encourage that, too. Don't be dazzled by the number or disappointed necessarily too much by the number. Um, it's more about the the
039applicants that are within that pool. That's what we're going to be hoping for and working to make happen. Again, we hope that the posting itself attracts a lot of candidates, but we'll also be recruiting to help make sure that happens. And then do you have like a list of retired superintendents that might be u interested like the ones that have retired and maybe want to come back or >> Sure. And again, if if you had a thought, for example, if there's somebody you're thinking of, let us know that. We'll contact that person and see if we can encourage them to uh have interest. By all >> could I throw out name? >> I would rather that you don't be honest because I would rather that we don't start to kind of get into that and
040and everybody else may not agree with you, right? And we >> Oh, yeah. I mean, I thought you were talking. >> We're going to give you We're going to encourage you though. You'll have our you have our contact info, I think, already, but we'll make sure that you do. We're going to encourage you. It could be as soon as immediately after this meeting or you want to take a second and text it, that's fine, too. But please do share those with us and we'll and we'll be following up. Thank you. Okay. So, the only other thing is I mentioned the groups that we would typically be meeting with for those stakeholder meetings. Sometimes boards will say there are other >> [clears throat and snorts] >> specific groups that they think in this in their community
041is really important. For example, a couple of examples I can think of. Ironically, Fred this agrees with what you said. Sometimes boards will say, "We want you specifically to meet with union leadership." Um, sometimes it will be city civic leaders. They like to extend a special invitation and have a specific meeting for them. Um sometimes they could be affinity groups like PTA and others where you want to have a special meeting just for those folks too. They're not necessary. U but sometimes boards will say we think in this community that's important and so we'd like you to specifically schedule a time for that group or those groups as well. So I'm going to just toss that out to you as we before we look to start to put a schedule together. Is there any group
042like that that you think we need to consider? The broad groups will capture them, right? When we have a meeting, for example, for community members and parents, that's going to get everybody, anybody, right? So, but if you think it's important, we can do that. So, >> and how about the media coverage, too, because we want to get it out in a positive way. You know, we got to be kind of careful because we're all concerned about this election cycle like me, Kim, and for re-election, you know, like this next cycle and things to get real weird. We don't want a lot of negativity. Even though we're doing the superintendent, we want a positive spin, but you got to watch the media and we don't know who's going to run against us. You know what I'm
043saying? With this political thing, you get messy like in between and you know, so figure out how to do the be like in a way that be a positive, you know, kind of >> sometimes districts will uh I don't know how what kind of relationship you have with your local paper, right? I'm sure you have a local paper. I assume you probably do. >> Wester. Okay. So we use that as an example. So sometimes districts will put out the schedule for the stakeholder meetings, for example, and even share the the survey link >> with the local newspaper and ask them to publish it just to help get that word out far and wide. That's positive PR. That tells people that you're you're working on it and it it shows again that you're being inclusive, giving
044them an opportunity to be a part of this. So I think that could be a really positive thing. I'll tell you, and you can expect this when you get the survey responses, um, especially in the question, what are the primary challenges your your new leader will need to address? Buckle up because, you know, people can sometimes be pretty unpleasant with those responses. I mean, it can be, but um, again, we're just going to simply whatever we get, we're going to share with you so that they can see that. And who knows, right? There may be comments that are critical of you as a board or individual board members. We would hope not, but people can be silly with that. Um, but those are not going to be published far and wide, right? Again, we're taking
045the most common responses and putting those together. So, but just so you know how your constituents are responding, you'll see that you should be kind of uh stealed against that and know that that people sometimes use that as an opportunity to vent and so be it, right? But during the course of the search itself, we're really not providing those opportunities. That's not what this is about. >> Yes. >> So, I think that it would be a good idea for to send an invitation out for the survey and the meeting for our city officials. Um, Westland, we service four different communities plus school of choice. So like if we can and it's what I'm trying to do since I've been on the board is getting those other communities outside of Westland and so if we can
046send an invitation out for administration and Wayne Westland Inkster and Ramlas and get their opinion about the superintendent search. I think that would be excellent. You know they may come out they may not but at least we tried to get them involved. >> Don't forget Ken. >> Oh Ken I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. >> You said Wayne Westland obviously, but then Romulous and Canton Heights. Yes. I tried to say everything button first. I tried to put it last night. Okay. So, let me ask this question. Are you looking or would you prefer to see I guess I want to see what the whole board thinks about this a specific meeting just for those folks or would you are you thinking more you'd like to have a specific invitation to make sure it comes to
047those leaders attention and give them the opportunity to attend the more broad meeting that's open to anybody. What do you think you might prefer? >> I like the more broad. >> Yeah. >> Make sure they get invitation. >> You get more people too. >> Okay. But then to make sure that they specifically is called to the civic leaders attention so that they don't miss it. >> So with that, is there a way to also partner with civ civic leaders to help get the message out that we're having these these we're having the community meetings and we want community members to attend it because while we're saying we want to make sure that we're included including their leadership we also want to make sure that families know and I mean I know we're putting it out
048but then it's like that's a double way >> to get it out to make sure that families within that community because we may have families within that community who don't have kids in our school could have kids in our school and could be a part of this process because they may now want to reenroll their kids in our schools because they were now included in this process. Does that make sense? Yes. >> Sure. >> So at the same time that we communicate with them and call the survey and the meetings to their attention, we could at the same time encourage that they in whatever way they can if they can help spread the word. >> Sure. >> Um we recently established a parent districtwide parent committee. I would like if we could reach out to
049them. Um maybe if you guys meet with them maybe free 30 minutes just to encourage them to um help bring awareness to this meeting because uh the parents could definitely get other community members, other parents, other people to the broad just meeting with them in particular to u encourage attendance. >> So let me clarify with that one. We'd be looking for us to meet with them in advance of um these scheduled meetings in part to make sure they know what's going on and then get them as allies to help spread the word. >> Yes. Because once we do make the decision, I don't want it to just be on the board. We've included established committees and they had a say so they were here in the beginning of the process. So yeah, I would love
050to commamp that. also showing that it's valuable to us. It wasn't just revamped just to say we're revamping it, if that makes sense. >> Sure. >> Um, can I throw another one out there and I I'm throwing it out there too because I would like to hear the rest of the board's opinion on it and that is around union leadership because we are a very strong union district. Um, and I know they've had an opportunity to come to the other meetings, but should we have a separate meeting just for the union leadership to have those conversations that they like to have? don't be a good idea because then they're involved in the process. >> Yeah. If we don't include them, they're going to say we're not >> Well, go ahead. >> Share your thoughts because
051I I'm throwing it out there just to hear. I I haven't mentioned this to John, but but I would say I would bring union leadership in um separately. Yeah. And the reason why is because when they when the union leadership attends with the staff then the conversation isn't as doesn't flow as freely because the union leadership is there. >> Right. >> I I was actually going to say exactly the same thing. I think that's where you'd benefit is the union leadership would have a chance to say what they need to say through that lens, but then what you would get is other staff members at the other meeting that would be able to speak freely about other issues that they have. So I >> agree >> that you could benefit from that. >> So we
052can certainly do is that you folks would like us to do >> I know it's something that uh we have to do. Um we don't necessarily fight against the union, but um our union can be pretty nasty >> when it comes to negotiations um all those sorts of things. So, I I think we have to um and I I would like to hear what they have to say. >> Sure. But in this district, John, you're not going to get much of a thank you. You're not going to get all this welcome aboard stuff. It's It's only when something goes wrong that our constituent show up. >> Well, I'll go back to I appreciate that. More than anything, what you're doing is providing people, you're being inclusive, right? You're providing people an opportunity to be part
053of this process. Most of your constituents won't take advantage of that. Most of them won't, but you'll have some who will gladly do so, and they'll really appreciate the opportunity. And partly what you will gain too is at the end of the process, anybody who wants to come to you and say, "Wow, you know, why didn't we have a voice in this?" you're going to be positioned very well to be able to say you absolutely had ample opportunity to have a voice in this. If you chose not to, that was your choice. But nobody can come back and include you of being exclusive and just kind of huddling around and not listening to any other voices in your community. That will not be the case. >> So I have a question and my fellow board
054members may think this is not a good question. And if they feel like they then we leave it alone. The the night that you guys did your presentation, it was brought up by one of our board members that once we start the process, um we shouldn't change officers. Um like in January we have our organization meeting and the board member was explaining that he said that um because you already built a relationship like you already separated Kimberly from Kim. You see what I'm saying? So I'm just thinking and that person also said what they brought it up that that would be a good idea for us not to change leadership during this process. if I can address that. I think that our officers might even be the very same, but it is the policy of
055this district that there is a vote taken. >> Oh, no. We should still take the vote. I'm not saying that we shouldn't take the vote. Yeah. I mean, we still should do the process in January like we should, but I was just getting their opinion cuz David is the one that said it. just get their opinion what they thought you know because with the relationship already been built you see what I'm saying but no I know we gonna have an organization meeting in January >> here's what we encourage you do what's best for Wayne what's west what's west what's west what's west what's west what's west what's west whatever that might be our job is to work cooperatively and collaboratively with you whatever the case might be >> okay >> so I enjoy you know
056Kimberly and I talked quite a few times it's great we have a nice relationship >> oh no we got to break that up You didn't say it too much. >> I know. Sorry. No, but seriously, but if if ultimately you as a board decide that the best thing for you is to shift leadership, >> you do what's best for you and we won't any any issues whatsoever. We're going to work with you in any way that we need to. So, that's going to be totally up to you folks. >> Okay. Yeah. >> I appreciate you asking. I mean, I just had that, you know, it was just a thought going ever since that person said it, it been like, you know. Yeah. >> I appreciate you folks being free to ask questions throughout this. >>
057I appreciate you allowing us to ask. >> Of course. Of course. All right. So, we we um I warned you that item four on the agenda was going to take a while, right? We're going slowly. >> Good conversation. >> It is. It is. So, all right. All right. So, we'll be following up. Uh, and again, I'll be connecting with Kim and probably Catherine too to um get a schedule together that Sheila and I can work with. So, as I understand it, too, um, we'll include the groups that we talked about. Um, >> let's review them. >> Yeah, we would during the course of the school day, it would be students, high school students, and administrators. And then after secondary dismissal, it would be secondary staff members. after elementary dismissal, elementary staff members, communicating that those
058groups would include any other staff member who doesn't fit one of those categories and they can come to either meeting, right? Um we would then meet with um at some point based on your feedback, we want to include union leadership in that too. So, we'll work them into this at whatever time makes sense. And then sometime in the evening, we would have something for parents and community members knowing that again the specific group you wanted us to reach out to to inform them and encourage them to help get the word out were civic leaders from Wayne Westland, Instster, Romulus, Canton, and Jerorn Heights. >> Correct. >> Yes. and meeting beforehand before all of that with your districtwide parent group. >> Okay. Appreciate that. Um >> I have a question. I'm sorry. >> No, it's okay.
059>> Um so, and I can't remember if this was said in the presentation. You all work with the marketing firm >> or No, how does that work for the poster piece? It's not a marketing. >> Oh, as far as the post I'll I'll get to that actually in a moment. >> Okay. And the reason why I'm asking is because I was just thinking about that piece around the community being a part of the input sessions or going about the links, the survey, the online survey, and us reaching out to the um civic leaders and again going back to that idea of making sure people know that if they don't have kids in the district, but they can have kids in the district to be a part of that. So I just didn't know if you
060all work with the marketing firm or if we need to connect with our marketing department, you know what I mean? Just to make sure that happens, that alignment piece is there. >> So we'll work with your folks to encourage them and kind of talk through that any in any and every way that you're able to disseminate this information about the surveys, about the survey, about the facetoface meetings, and then subsequently even about the interviews because those are going to be open to the public too. You want people to be present, right? So, um, any any means available to you, you should seize those and and take advantage of the opportunities. Local newspapers, whatever the case might be. >> Okay. And I'll also follow Catherine. I just wanted to I'm just processing. I'm sorry. Okay. >>
061Okay. No, no, you don't have to apologize for asking any questions at all. We appreciate it. So all that information we're gathering again is going to help us create the candidate profile which not only is going to be important for the position announcement itself but we'll be continuing to put that back in front of you throughout the process so that you don't forget because it's easy to um and your your kind of personal opinions can can come to the four, right? But we're going to keep reminding you that the goal is to find somebody that fits that candidate profile as closely as possible because that is what you and your constituents are saying you need in this district right now. So that's going to be your goal is to find the closest fit to the
062candidate profile that you possibly can. Right? The other information that we're gathering is is primarily for um the position announcement and so it'll [clears throat] be incorporated into that. So once that position announcement's together before it's posted, we're going to get a draft of that to you. It will include that candidate profile and other info and give you a chance to give any final feedback you have, suggest any changes before that's then posted. And it's posted statewide. Um, we post it on our organization's website and we encourage you and I'm sure I know you will post it on your website as well, but this goes throughout the state and I can assure you um, being in the business for so long and Sheila knows this too. Anybody and everybody who has any interest in becoming
063a superintendent uh, is going to see this um, in terms of where it will be posted. Nobody's going to miss it. as long as they're interested enough to be kind of having their eyes and ears open and looking. If you're looking, you're going to see this vacancy. So, it'll be everywhere. If you had interest in posting nationally, that was in our our um proposal to you, too. We could post this nationally as well in several national publications. I think the additional cost, I can go back and look, was $1,400. I've got the proposal. I can look it up. >> Yeah, it 14 or two. I thought it was two. >> Okay. >> But I like 14. I don't think it was two. [laughter] It could be around 14. >> Was it 14? >> I think
064it was, but I I'll I'll when we take a break, I'll take a look and clarify that for you. >> I just know it was an extra charge. >> Well, there is there is. But what you want to ask yourself is that is it is it going to be worth it to possibly attract national candidates? >> Um, I will say this, this is my opinion. I'm going to give Sheila a chance to speak from her experience, too. a the no matter how you put this out there, the vast majority of your applicants are going to be from the state of Michigan. There are advantages, not that you want to limit yourself to it, but to getting applicants from the state of Michigan because they've worked in the state, they know the state, they know how
065education works in the state. And I will tell you, even sometimes, I know some of our competitors, some of the national firms, that's partially their selling point. We have national reach. We're going to attract national candidates. We pay close attention when we see searches that we're not doing but the national firms are doing and we look at the candidate pools. We look at at who districts end up interviewing from those pools and who they end up hiring. Those pools are you'd be have a hard time differentiating those from ours. Um, honestly, and I would argue that in terms of ours, based on our our networking throughout the state and and our knowledge of of the candidates who are here, um, your better bet is you're going to get some pretty strong candidates from the state
066of Michigan. So, whether or not you get your $1,400 worth, you probably will you might attract a a couple of few national applicants that you wouldn't have otherwise gotten. But then the question is, are there going to be folks that you really have interest in interviewing? And more often than not, boards tend not to be terribly interested for various reasons. So, >> ditto on what you just said. Okay. >> I absolutely agree. Um, MLI has a wonderful relationship with many of the education organizations in the state. The superintendent organization, secondary administrators organization, elementary administrators organization, business officials, schoolboard organizations, all those organizations will know about the opening in your district >> and post it >> and yes, >> They'll post it on their website. And Michigan education system is um a unique entity not like
067other states and Michigan politics >> different than other states um and so it's up to you but I think that you will get a um significant number of internal I say internal instate applicants versus out of state applicants. So, are you saying that we should just save our $1,400? >> I'm not I'm not I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just giving you my opinion and that decide that's what I heard. >> I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying um I question the value of it. I don't know that it's going to really get you great results necessarily, but when you consider I don't know what the size of your total budget is. $1,400 is a minuscule part of your district budget. Not that it's nothing, but if you think you gain something
068even by being able to tell your staff members and constituents that we advertise for this nationally, maybe that in and of itself is worth the,400 bucks. I just don't want to raise expectations for you and think that if we post in those national publications, you're going to get a plethora of these fantastic national candidates applying here. That's probably not going to happen. >> Agree. I I I I agree. you'll you will get some candidates, but I think that the selling point is to be able to say to your constituents, we did a national search. Not only did we do an instate search, but we did a national search. We're looking for the very best candidate, whether it's in Michigan or outside of Michigan. >> So, that might be worth 1,400 bucks. >> Yeah, >> it
069really might be. Honestly, >> I think it's a national search is good as well. I think the issue we had the last time we had someone from out of state the community oh they're from another state and different and it was like hard you know with the community >> so I think it's good to you know have it but just like it just and then location costs and issues that we have you know with out of state politics and stuff like that >> you'll be able to take that into account so that when you get to the point where you're actually reviewing the applicants and if you have out of state applicants and you probably if we do that would have at least a few um you'll be able to compare those to the applicants
070you're getting from United States and you'll be able to make a decision then as to whether or not you think that those folks could potentially be good fits here even though they're coming from somewhere else in the country. So, it's not certainly not going to hurt you other than the fact that you're out $1,400. Right. But I do think that's a nice talking point. We did a national search as a board. We left no stone unturned. >> Right. So, um so what do you think based on that? Is your your inclination to say you would prefer to do that or that you might pass? >> You want to hurt? >> I see somebody that's nodding >> because you want to get the best candidate regardless, >> right? Oh, absolutely. Anybody opposed or or want to
071kind of give a contrary opinion? I may be wrong, but I think you said we both. >> Yeah, I I thought when we we voted to approve the search with MLI that it it did include, but I can't call the board meeting minutes up from August when we voted because the link isn't working. >> Okay, >> that's See, I wasn't at that meeting. So, I guess that's >> I wasn't at >> regardless. It sounds like now you're saying >> like Sorry. >> Yeah. >> All right. Then we'll make a point to do that, too. >> All right. So, we would then the goal is to have the position announcement completed by December 15th. And the good news for us is that if there's anything that might slow us down, anything unexpected. Not that I anticipate
072that. Typically, we set this and we're able to stick to it. Um, just because of the timing of all of this, we're not looking to post it until January anyway. So, we're going to post this on January 12th. The sweet spot for us tends to be a fiveweek posting period that we wanted to experience. So it would be posted from January 12th through February 23rd. I do want to say this though too. Before that, what we would do is get an announcement out that would just say that that would also go out at all of these same sites that I talked about where it just says that you have a vacancy you're looking to fill and it's going to give our names as contact people and say a position announcement is coming. Right? So, the
073word's going to be out in that way. There are people who already know, right? just because word spreads naturally anyway. But that'll be a more formal just kind of a okay, you know, here's a vacancy, be aware. And the position announcements coming in January, so be looking for that. So the word will get out before that, but on January 12th, the formal position announcement with the candidate profile, qualifications, [clears throat] etc. will then go out. Um, and again, as we're recruiting people, anybody who we're really trying to entice will be making sure to bring that to their attention as well. >> When would that position announcement go out? >> So, that's the one that's going to go out through, based on what you're saying, it will go out nationally as well, right? >> But it's
074going to go out throughout the state on your district website, on our website. >> No, but when? So, January 12th is when the posting goes out, but when does the announcement go out to say the posting? Oh, prior to that, yes, >> we can actually put that out at just about any time. In fact, if you're comfortable with it, I don't see any reason not to. I can contact our office on Monday and ask them to go ahead and get it out there. Why not? >> I just there's no way that can be hurtful. That way, even in advance, if people have questions, they'll have our contact info. They can reach out and say, "Well, tell me more about this. I'm interested." Great. >> Yeah, why not? Thank you for the question. >> Thank you.
075>> All right. So this >> Oh, I got a question. >> Yes. >> So do you think that if we put it out Monday? So we collecting surveys between December the 1st and December the 15th. Correct. >> So do you think that we should get that calendar before we post it? So if they contact you say yes, it'll be a survey out on December the 8th that you can fill out. >> No, this the survey won't be for >> the candidate. The posting is for the candidate. I'm sorry. >> No, no, it's okay. >> Okay. I'm sorry. Yes. Okay. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> That's why it's good to ask a question. >> Yeah, it is. >> I got that. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Um, so what I want to caution you about
076is so during that fiveweek period, you're not seeing or hearing basically anything. And that could be difficult for board members. We are though. It the the applications go into the frontline system. They're electronic applications. And so they'll fill out the application and include a resume and cover letter that are attached. We'll know, we can see when applications are in progress. So we can see when people have just started to fill them out and know and have the ability to start to reach out and contact those folks. And and we will, by the way, anybody who submits an application, as long as they're a viable applicant, you're you're going to sometimes get people who you see the applications and you think, "What are you doing? why you're not even remotely qualified. Why are on earth are
077you applying for this? But they do. We're not going to kind of waste our time following up with them and having a conversation. But anybody who meets the qualifications um and you potentially are going to have interest in we'll be having at least one conversation, maybe more with in advance. Maybe we have questions about the application that we want to get answered so we can then share that with you. Um, we're kind of assessing how interested are you really, right? >> How much do you know? Do you have any questions for us that we can answer? Those types of things. So, we're going to be busy during that fiveweek period. Um, it's going to be crickets for you because the candidates are going to request confidentiality of their applications. We can't tell you who's applying
078yet at that point, right? So, and sometimes boards will say, "Well, at least tell us, you know, 2 to 3 weeks in, tell us how many applicants we have." If you really want to know, I'm not going to tell you. I I won't tell you. I'm going to go back to what I said previously. It can be very misleading. Um, I've had boards who are insistent and so I'll tell them, "Okay, three weeks in with two to go, you've only got four applicants." And then they kind of panic. Oh my god, this this this is a disaster. Well, then by the time we get to the end of the the application deadline, you've got 18, right? So, that could be very misleading. And I would just encourage you just kind of to sit tight, let
079us do our thing, and when the time comes, we'll share those applicants with you. So, that application window closes on Monday, February 23rd. The date that we have to meet with you is on Monday, March 2nd. Before I forget to, can I ask uh what's the best time to start that meeting for you folks? We don't have that set yet. >> We usually start at seven, but would you guys want to start at six? >> That's that's fine. >> And isn't that a long meeting? >> That can be which is a better reason. Thank you. To start earlier, uh we always tell boards plan on about three hours for that meeting. I was asking Dr. >> Does that work for you? >> I thought I saw you a threehour meeting. >> Well, I can't control
080that part. [laughter] >> You know, >> that's what I saw the wheel. I just I just wondered if we could back it up to five. >> We can we'll accommodate you in any way you need us to. So, if it works for you, >> what I'm saying is because you know, losing focus at a certain time. >> I gota >> This is Monday, March 2nd. >> Yeah, we'll start whenever you would like for us to tell us the Lions. >> We might have Monday night football. >> That's that's post football season. So, you're good there. >> Yeah. >> What? So, you folks tell us >> we can drive high, you know. Can you all make that work? >> I'm fine. >> All right. It is. >> So, I want to go back to my question
081because I don't think it was the wrong question. Okay. >> So, >> right here when you um post that, you know, we going to start a search that we have a open position. Then you say people might call you. So, I may be the stockholder calling you, not the applicant. and I want to know what's going on. So, at that time, you will be able to tell me, well, hey, we got a survey coming out on a certain date. You can fill out the survey or watch out for the survey. >> I mean, it's it's feasible, I suppose, that somebody else who's not an applicant may see that and call the questions and if they do, we'll answer them. But, okay, >> but the where that posting is going to go is to all those
082various state organizations that that educational educ educators and educational leaders will be looking at. >> Okay. Okay. That's who's whose attention this is going to come to. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Anybody who follows up on that and calls us, we're happy to have a conversation. >> Yeah. I was just just wondering should we have the dates for the survey to come out at the same time. That's all. That's all that's all I was wondering. Okay. >> Yeah. I would say no because the the it's a different audience for the surveys. >> Okay. I'm going trust you this time. >> Remember I said trust the process. Thank you. >> I appreciate that. All right. So, at that meeting then on March 2nd, uh very first thing is you'll open in open session but immediately have a
083motion to go into close session. This is the one and only time in the entire search process you're doing anything behind closed doors. The only time. Um and the reason you can do that is per the open meetings act. The candidates will 99% of the candidates will say that they would like their application to stay confidential. there's a box they can check in the application and very honestly anybody who submits it and checks that they don't want it to be confidential we call them and tell them they should change it um because it's very awkward this gives you the opportunity for the open meetings that us we'll meet together not all firms do this we do you'll see any and every applicant even if they're unqualified people uh you'll know who applied for this so
084we try to help make it more efficient by creating a spreadsheet. On the spreadsheet, it gives you the name, gives you their current position, gives you all of the past positions they felt, and shows the the degrees that they have. And we put them, we break them into three categories. The first category is going to be candidates who absolutely are qualified and we think have the most um relevant experience uh in terms of becoming a superintendent. They may be current superintendents, central administrators, whatever. Second uh grouping will be for candidates who are absolutely qualified. Maybe they don't have quite the experience that those in the top group have, but they you may have interest and you certainly will want to take a look at those folks. The third tier will be those candidates either who
085are clearly unqualified for the position or who frankly we may know something about. There may be some red flags that we would share with you in close session and that we think would cause you not to have interest. But having said that, that's the one and only time we're going to kind of put our thumb in the scale in any way, shape, or form. And that's really just to help it be more efficient because you're going into close session. You're going to have some important decisions to make that you're going to be deciding that night who you'd like to interview. You're going to be faced with a lot of information. So, we'll be giving you binders with the applicant applications, resumes, and cover letters of all of the candidates in groups A and B. Those
086top two groups, we'll have on hand the application materials, just one set of those in that last group. In the event that anybody says, well, you know, I do have some interest in this candidate in this last group. We'll just stop for a second. We'll make copies of that stuff and we'll put them in all your hands and you're welcome to consider that person. You can pick anybody. I love to tell the story and I may have before of one district who there was such strong applicants that I had people in that last group who were qualified but just didn't have nearly the experience as the candidates did in those top two groups. But somebody on the board said, you know, I have interest in this person who's a high school principal. I'd like to
087know more about this person. We made those copies. They ended up inviting that person to apply and she's now in her fifth year as their superintendent. They hired her. >> Okay. >> Right. So, that's up to you. That's that we'll we'll sort them for you that way. It's rare that any district simply picks everybody that we put in the top tier. There's almost always a mix. You're going to decide that. Fred. >> Um I would just a matter of housekeeping for if I understood you right. We're going to be in close session for 3 hours. >> No, thank you for asking for the clarification. That's going to be our first order of business is to go into close session, review the applications. Again, spreadsheets could then be kind of a quick glimpse and as we're
088walking through those, we'll tell you any additional information we may have on those candidates that you may not necessarily see in their application materials. So, and give you a chance to answer ask any questions. Then we give you any additional time you might want just with the applications in front of you to go through those on your own time. The thought being in mind that when you're ready to come out of close session and determine who you'd like to interview soon as all seven of you are there we come out of close session now we're into open. I will tell you that when we say the meeting can take up to three hours. Um it depends on how long that closed session takes more than anything. I probably the worst example in terms of time
089commitment and there's one board I won't name them I remember meeting with they were in that closed session itself for over 3 hours the total meeting took about four and a half but that was an outlier um so you should expect though that that close session could take hour and a half time it's a rough guess you're going to take as much time as you need with that that's critical we're not going to rush you at all and we're going to wait until the seventh board member indicates, all right, I'm ready. Right, everybody else has said it already. I'm ready. And then we're going to come out of close session. >> With that said, um I just want to mention to the president, maybe we just have on the agenda only what we have to
090have. >> That is a special meeting for this purpose. That that meeting or special meeting just for this purpose. >> That's not a regular. >> Okay. So, >> but you're right, Fred. I agree with you. You don't want it there's so this is a heavy meeting. You don't want any other district business to be conducted that night. >> So I have a question because we will be determining and possibly voting on the candidates that we want to interview. Yes. So we won't get this packet private I mean prior to the meeting like we get our board packet like two days before the meeting. So this won't be available for us to go over. >> We normally don't due to confidentiality. we we wait until we're actually with you in close session and then we share
091it all with you. But that goes back to that's part of the reason that we organize it the way we do and that we run through all of these with you. Um and through that typically what happens with boards is once you see that spreadsheet and you have an idea of their work history, you're already going to have a pretty fair idea of the people within that group. Let's say you have 18 applicants, right? That's going to help you kind of whittle it down even in your own mind too. Okay, I I have particular interest in whatever the number might be, these three, four, five, six people. And then you're going to be able to look at their application materials that much more closely. You don't necessarily need to dive into the application materials on
092anybody who when you see that spreadsheet, you think, well, you know, as compared to some of these other people, I'm not terribly interested. So, we are going to kind of shrink the task down for you in that way. Um, but it's a big undertaking that the the comfort can come in the fact that all you're deciding right now is who you want to bring in front of you to have a first round interview, which is more of a screener, I would say, than anything, right? Um, it will happen sometimes that you'll pick somebody and within the first five or 10 minutes, you may realize, >> yikes, I don't think so. Right. >> Yeah. >> Um, that's okay. uh the process of elimination is going to help too. And as far as how many you pick,
093we're not going to tell you there's a maximum or minimum. Um but having done this a ton of times, it almost always is in the range of four to six. It just naturally falls that way, right? So go ahead questions. >> Oh, I was just going to ask you, so after we come out of close session, we'll vote. Is there anything else that we'll be doing at that meeting? >> Yes. Let me get let me get to the wall too. No, no, no, no, no. And and I'll explain what else. I told you this part was going to take a long time. >> Um, so so you come out of close session, I will have prompted you. Remember your goal in close session is to come out of that close session with the idea in
094mind as an individual. Here's who I'd like to interview of this and again no number to it. If for you I'm only interested in three or [clears throat] you say I'm interested in eight, whatever the case might be, that's okay. We're going to have a letter designation by each candidate and you'll have that spreadsheet in front of you. So when we come out of close session, we'll go down the line and one at a time we'll ask each of you to indicate publicly now but by letter, not name. Um, who would you like to interview? So Melanie might say, I'd like to interview candidates A, B, C, X, Y, and Z. Okay, we'll kind of tally that and we'll go ask each of you and we'll keep track of that. And then when you all
095uh indicated which ones you're interested in, we'll read it back to you and say, "All right, seven of you said all seven said you'd like to interview candidate A. Six said you'd like to interview candidate B. Five said this, whatever the case might be." What we recommend then is whoever had four or more board members, a quorum of the board indicate interest, somebody will make a motion that you invite those candidates to interview. You'll vote on that motion. That could be a time where there could be discussion. You've got to be careful because the the candidates are still until the motion is passed confidential. Um but if somebody wants to lobby at that point, let's suppose there was somebody who three of you was were interested in but um didn't get that fourth and you're
096really disappointed as an individual. You're thinking, "Oh man, I think this is a great candidate. I think we're missing the boat." After the motion is made and there can be discussion, if you'd like to say, "Man, I really think we should reconsider and add candidate C to this mix. And here's why I think that." It's when you say, "Here's why." You've got to be really careful, right? Um, if you were to say, "I really think this person has done great work as the I'm making it up. Can't your high school principal?" Well, you just out of that person. We don't want to do that. But if you were to say, "I think this person based on their experience at all three grade levels and say they've been they've had elementary, middle school, and high school
097experience." if you can cite kind of some broad things about them that you think make a compelling case for you and see if you can convince your fellow board members maybe to add that person to the motion. Um so that discussion can take place. But now once you pass the motion and you pick the people you want to interview, we can publicly read those names aloud and that's not public information. What's really important is those are the only applicants anybody should know about. You have an obligation, just like with anything else that happens in close session, to keep that information private. Nobody else should ever know who else applied for this position. So, if I'm to apply, I'm excited about it that you didn't pick me to interview. Nobody should know I applied unless I
098told them. >> Yes. I just have a a question about the process down the line because some years ago it wasn't your organization but we had some workers actually call like the jobs of people that was applying and one of the guys was at well what he was working was and he had a lawsuit against the district and they used it against them. I thought that was unfair because [cough] you know they [snorts] used information in the district the board member that did all this stuff and it gave the guy an unfair advantage. You know what I understand? >> I do. I do. Um, I'll talk a little bit more about that, but we ask you to leave reference checks to us. Okay? We will take care of that. >> Um, in fact, I I'll
099say this now. I'm glad you asked the question because it sparked this thought is we're reviewing these applications uh before they come to you. We can't do formal reference checks because again that outs that these people have applied and they requested confidentiality, but we're doing internet searches, social media searches, and frankly we're going to >> searches. Well, yes, we're we're going to know some of these people already. Some of them will have been involved in other searches that we've done. We'll just have professional connections within our organization. We talk to one another, too. And if there are people who have applied that we don't know about, we'll ask some of our colleagues, you know, this person, what can you tell us about this person? So, we're finding out as much as we can in that
100way. Once you pick the people you want to interview, now we can start doing formal reference checks, too. what we do that what I will say is this because this will happen people in your school community who if you do pick somebody who works in Plymouth County schools right >> so I was going to go there then I have a question maybe go there for me >> so if you have a personal connection with somebody who might know this candidate right and you want to reach out even if it could be a board member in that district right that you might have a relationship with you just want to have a conversation I you know we're not going to discourage from doing that of course you can, but we're saying that to actually go out
101and do reference checks, leave that to us. We'll take care of that. We not only call the references that the candidates give us, but we go off of that and we are certain to call other people too to make sure that there are no red flags or anything to be concerned about. If we come across any red flags, we will put them on your radar. Um, if you come across because again, you're going to have that. In fact, another quick story. I'll make it quick. did a search in a district, um, identified the candidates, and during the course of first round interviews, the board president came up to me really kind of freaked out and said that one of his union leaders had told him one of the people they were interviewing was involved in
102altering test scores in a previous position in in the district that he worked in before. And the person was kind of pushed out with nobody knowing about it. never became public. But and so I was glad he told me because he gave me the chance to follow up. And in this case, it was pretty easy to follow up because I happened to know well the person who was the superintendent at the time that this supposedly happened when this person worked in that district or this superintendent. I talked to her. Her immediate response was to laugh at what I just told her and said, "That is absurd. That never happened. So it so fortunately then I was able to reassure the board, well that's not true. Honestly, had it been true, it would have been a
103good thing because I would have been able to tell the board, well, guess what? There is a bit of an issue you should know about. So I say that to to tell you that you shouldn't be doing the ones reaching out unless you have a personal connection that you want to follow up on. But if you happen to hear something because your constituents are going to be asking questions, too. if they know somebody in these districts, if they have connections, um they will be. And people sometimes can be really eager to be like somebody to find some dirt on somebody and they're excited to tell you. Please, again, through the process we talked about, share it with Kimberly. She'll share it with us. We will dig and find out what we can about that. And
104we'll let be able to let you know either yes, there is something to that or no, there's nothing to that. And that can be really helpful, right? Because as much as we did with the um kind of the the background checks that we do and even the reference checks, I'm not going to lie to you and say it's never happened that there's something out there that didn't come to our attention. Sometimes it does come to kind of our attention in other ways. Great. Right. The more we can find out, the better. Just make sure to share it with us so that we can vet that. John, um, you know, sometimes you learn from your past. >> Yes. Um, we've had a situation where we've had to let two superintendent go. In each case, I feel
105like this board was very much justified in that. Um, when we're talking contracts, >> yeah, >> I I know I'm getting ahead of it, but I'm I'm just going to say >> this board is famous for giving out threeear contracts and, you know, hey, come on in, do you know, whatever. But I'm not sure that's the way to go because we spend hundreds of thousands of dollars not educating kids but paying out superintendent for a for a three-year term. So very much concerned about what we >> go into in a in a contract negotiation. So we will get into that but I will tell you I can say now has a question now too the standard it typically is three years right and I I will say that you may not necessarily well but you
106may have difficulty getting somebody with less than that if you're only offering a two-year agreement and certainly a one-year agreement there will be people who will say I'm sticking my neck out you know I'm leaving the position that I'm in now where I'm highly successful I'm going to take on this really difficult public role in your district and without the assurance that I've got at least a three-year agreement because people out there kind of know that's the standard too. I'm not doing this. So, but but so what I'll just simply tell you is ultimately that's your decision based on past experience. You want to hedge your bet and you say we're only willing to offer two-year agreement, you can do that. Just know in advance though that that might have a little bit of a
107chilling effect in terms of the some of the applicants that you might get. >> I agree. I definitely agree. I wouldn't mind the first contract being three years, >> but uh the evergreen clause in the contract >> and see that's something we're going to put in ahead of time, Fred. that when you go to negotiate a contract, um what we encourage at that time is that a you work with your whatever attorney you typically work with on those things to draft a contract um in advance and then you kind of plug in the salary and compensation numbers once you know who you're hiring and that becomes your first offer. We offer to assist more so almost as a mediator in negotiations. We you should use your legal counsel for the contract terms. But but so
108that's where as you're wrestling with those contract terms, if you decide as a board, we don't want an evergreen clause. We want to have to make a a conscious active decision to extend yearbyear at least initially until we know this person better. You can do that and then that becomes part of your first offer to that candidate. That's part of what's paid. >> I'm just um after the first contract, that's where my concern comes. understand >> that we look at one or two year terms and after that >> totally understand. How are we doing on time but does anybody feel like they need a break? >> I would like a break but I would like to ask a question back to what you were talking about and with the candidates and then maybe after we
109button that part of the agenda up we can take a break. Is that fair? >> Yeah, sure. >> Okay. So, I just wanted to go back to the piece of I guess one of the questions I have or concern or something I want to lift because I'm in education and I've been in education for a long time. There nine times out of 10 are going to be candidates that come across the table that I may know for the superintendent's position. How is that handled or how should that be handled? I just want to make sure I'm clear and every is for that transparenc transparency piece because there is that possibility. Um, so when we're in close session and we're talking about the candidates, that's that is the opportunity we're all going to have >> to
110speak very candidly. >> We're all going to be able to say things in that close session that we wouldn't dare say publicly, frankly. Right. >> If we're sharing red flags we have on candidates, you're not going to hear us saying these things publicly and we're going to caution you never to say those things publicly either. Right? >> Um, when we talk and >> not even a red flag, but just I know this person. I worked with them. You know what I mean? Absolutely. So, but so you can when we're in close session and we're going over the candidates, that's that's the perfect time for you to be able to to acknowledge that, hey, I happen to know this person and frankly >> if you um either are unimpressed or very impressed or whatever, if it's
111appropriate, if you want to share that opinion, it is just your opinion and others don't have to heed that, but totally appropriate at that time. That's that is the exact time it's perfect for you to do that. >> Okay. I just wanted to acknowledge that because it, you know, I feel like it can get dicey. >> Sure. >> Um, if it's not acknowledged or not acknowledged appropriately. >> Absolutely. >> You know, and I may not know anybody, but >> but you may not. No. >> Okay. >> So, at that point, would she excuse herself from voting for that person? No. >> No, she doesn't have to. That's that's not a conflict of It's not a relative. If it was a family member, it's a different story, right? If she were to say, "Well, what if
112that happens to be my sister, right?" Uh, she should refrain from voting on that and not not >> might not be a sister. Might be a cousin. >> A cousin. [laughter] No, if it's just I I know this person professionally. Here's what I know. That's totally fine. >> Okay. That's a good question. >> And I have one, too. If somebody called me over the weekend about a potential person, I'm like, I don't know this. You know what I'm saying? Like, we're in a process. how to get information. But like people do like they don't like they call tell you bad stuff like and the person I know I don't have no need I tell the person hey you know we're doing our ticket search you know if you don't like that person you really shouldn't
113be calling you know what I'm saying that's just tacky >> it's going to happen now it is it will once >> who you have hired has or who you have decided to interview has gone public get ready get ready I tell you and you're right though what you want to be careful you want to take that stuff with a grain of salt to a certain extent because if you're a leader um you're not always making people happy >> because you have to make really challenging difficult decisions. >> Yes, you do. >> And when you have when you make those decisions, you upset certain people. >> Yes, you do. >> And so the person you may hear from is somebody who perhaps um I had to in the course of my career, I'm I'm the applicant,
114right? and um I had to had an interaction with this person where I had to take disciplinary action, let's say, whatever the case might be, or I had to levy discipline on this person's child and they were didn't think it was fair. You know, they're going to call you and say, "This person is horrible. Do not hire this person." >> Well, they're entitled to that opinion and they're entitled to share that opinion with you. And I'm not saying you should discount it, but like anything else, a random opinion from one person, okay, take that for what it's worth. If you're hearing this from a dozen people and there's a common theme, well, maybe you got something to be concerned about there. You know, maybe that's more of kind of a where there's smoke, there's fire
115issue. So, listen to people, thank them for their input, and then you kind of take it as it comes. You can factor that in along with everything else you're going to be learning about these folks throughout this process. Make sense? >> Anything else? Now, before we take a a break, you want to give a chance to get up, stretch, get more refreshments, use the restroom. What are we to do? Maybe 10 minutes. And I'm we're going to work hard to try to bring this to closure by 12:00. Um, if we need to finesse the agenda a bit to make that happen, we'll do that. But I we don't want to Saturday, we want to get you out of here. >> Closer to 11:30. Okay. I'm not going to promise you. Nice try. >> On my
116way here, I was like, we never [laughter] had workshop that lasted 12. They all say 12:00 at the time. >> We waiting on you. >> Let's start at 10:40. We'll start up again at 10:40. I see 10:31 up on the clock. >> Thank you. Do I need a motion for us to go in the break? I don't think so. So, let's go. >> Y she was telling me to be quiet.