OCPS | School Board Work Session

001good morning everyone and welcome to the Orange County school board's work session and Rule development Workshop our work session has been scheduled for today for the purpose of discussing early reading intervention the public will not have an opportunity to participate in this work session to provide public comment because this is not a regularly scheduled school board meeting no action will be taken and there will be no pre-agenda period in which the public would normally address the school board on relevant topics that are related to the work of board rural development Workshop the second part of today's meeting is for the purpose of discussing proposed revisions to the following School Board policies IJ instructional materials ijl Library materials selection and adoption and kec challenged materials policy the school board will be hearing public comments on these

002three policies again because this is not a regularly scheduled Workshop there will be no pre-agenda meeting like we would normally have thank you all so much for joining us today board members are all attending in person member Felder is not here although I just heard the door open she is probably walking up as we speak there she is I also want to remind the public that board members will not be engaging outside Electronics or digital communication during the meeting so that we can focus our attention on the meeting itself to my fellow board members staff and any members of the public that might be speaking please speak directly into your microphones make sure they're turned on so that we can hear our microphones are very sensitive so if you don't have a right up to

003your face we won't hear you also as we begin our meeting as we do with every meeting I want to invite you to join us in a moment of silence and the Pledge of Allegiance and now for the pledge I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right Dr vesque because I'm going to turn the meeting over to you thank you madam chair good morning it is my pleasure to present at the request of the board information regarding our early literacy plan some of the information is historical and some of it is exciting we'll be able to share what our plans are moving forward to be able to have a very

004strong unified early literacy focus in our schools I'm going to turn it over to Rob Bixler who is the associate superintendent for curriculum and digital learning and I'm sorry before we get started for some reason that sounded very quiet I was trying to get a read from the audience up here it sounds real low and I have the volume room volume all the way up so from the back could you all hear okay was it just me you all could hear okay okay never mind ignore that good morning chair Jacobs board members and Dr Vazquez today we're here to provide information as we address early reading instruction and intervention through one ocps is a road map to reading before we further explore the how we would like to speak briefly about the why there is

005a need to inform and examine early literacy practices to ensure every student has a promising and successful future the quotes on this slide call attention to the importance of addressing reading skills early in a child's learning pathway with an emphasis on on a systematic approach at the upcoming summer and structural Leadership Institute for principals and assistant principals author and keynote speaker Dr Julia Lindsey will share the importance of effective reading strategies and evidence evidence-based reading practices this roadmap to reading details how we will achieve that goal within ocps through a collective belief as we scan early Readiness data for kindergarteners we can quickly discern that almost half of our students entering kindergarten are not demonstrating readiness this trend often continues as the exit third grade as a district and state third grade proficiency has been

006stagnant leading us to consider what is change in literacy instruction what obstacles have we faced as a district and what is our plan to continue and expand research-based reading practices research about third grade reading proficiency has proven a strong correlation between a student's proficiency and their likeliness to graduate high school according to the American educational research Association a student who cannot read on grade level by third grade is four times less likely to graduate by the age of 19. additionally seventy percent of all incarcerated adults cannot read at a fourth grade level with your with the affirmation facts in mind it is of the utmost importance that our district Focus their efforts on early literacy particularly teaching foundational skills prior to third grade screening for early reading difficulties and providing prompt intervention in the past

007there have been varying approaches to literacy that include whole language and a balanced literacy approach whole language instruction as an example is based on the philosophy that kids will learn to read naturally if you expose them to a lot of books fonding skills were taught but not explicitly emphasized or systematic in nature as a result there was not always a consistent focus on early literacy skill development in favor of comprehension this often resulted in reactionary plans of remediation and a focused on grade level associated with State accountability systems where clear data points were available there was also variance in implementation of resources that address students needs throughout today's presentation we will discuss application of current research an evidence-based approach to literacy instruction in one alignment with the new best standards and an opportunity for a

008one OC ocps implementation in all of our classrooms the one ocps roadmap to reading is an educational shift tied to the research and evidence-based practices that align with the science of reading the science of reading is a vast interdisciplinary body of scientifically based research about reading and issues related to reading and writing the research was conducted over five decades and is derived from thousands of studies the result of This research provide a body of evidence that informs how proficient reading and writing develops why some students have difficulties in how we can effectively assess and teach to improve student outcomes through prevention and intervention Scarborough's reading rope provides a visual that represents the processes essential for skilled reading as defined within the science of reading the components found in the top and bottom of the Rope

009are equally essential in the development of skilled reading reading instruction involves the intricate and intentional blending of automatic and strategic skills as Illustrated in the graphic the bottom strand of the reading rope includes word recognition this involved the student's application of phonological awareness decoding and sight word recognition the upper strand of the reading rope includes language comprehension this includes the students background knowledge vocabulary language structure verbal reasoning and literacy knowledge in summary the bottom strand of the reading rope includes skills that need to become increasingly automatic for our students while the upper strand of the reading rope includes skills that are more strategic for our students to learn and apply a skilled reader has fluent execution and coordination of word recognition and language comprehension the conclusive research from the science of reading provides us with

010the information we need to gain a deeper understanding of how we learn to read what skills are involved how they work together and which parts of the brain are responsible for reading development from this research and evidence-based practice best practice for teaching foundational literacies called structured literacy was conceptualized this approach emphasized highly explicit and systematic teaching of all literacy components structured literacy is the pathway of implementation for the science of reading John Hattie's visible learning research studied the greatest influences on student achievement an effect size of 0.4 indicates one year of growth over one year's time anything beyond a 0.4 effect size indicates over a Year's growth in a year's time the chart shows the minimal effect the whole language approach has on student achievement as .06 in comparison in coding programs direct instruction and

011phonics instruction have larger effect sizes that exceed 0.4 most notably phonics instruction at .70 and mtss 1.29 has has significantly higher effect sizes these results highlight the need to provide targeted instruction and appropriate intervention for students these influences fall under the structured literacy umbrella although not highlighted on the slide Collective efficacy has an effect size of 1.57 if we Define this further Collective efficacy is a group's shared belief that United actions can influence student outcomes and increase achievement for all students this will be an important consideration as we establish a common understanding of literacy Within ocps the ocps implementation of structured literacy approach aligns with the Florida's formula for Success this includes the six components of reading oral language phonological awareness phonics fluency vocabulary and comprehension four types of assessment screening progress monitoring Diagnostic and

012summative along with three tiers of instruction commonly referred to as mtss during the 21 22 and 22 23 school years Florida transitioned to the best standards these standards based on the science of reading and structured literacy include a progression of foundational benchmarks which support the use of systematic explicit sequential and cumulative teaching practice practices that include multi-sensory approaches in grades K through five foundational benchmarks are embedded are embedded within tier one instruction s not demonstrating progress are identified as needing additional layers of support through tier 2 and tier three instruction and intervention although not the focus of today's presentation the 6 through 12 foundational reading intervention standards were also added to support secondary students who have not yet acquired the essential skills to read fluently with comprehension within the next two slides we will capture

013the one ocps approach to structured literacy and how all of these pieces will affix to one another the interdisciplinary body of the scientifically based research referred to as the science of reading has shed light on how the brain creates neurological Connections in order for people to develop as readers so we may ask ourselves how do we Implement what we have learned through the science of reading we have learned that structured literacy approach to reading instruction allows teachers to explicitly address essential skills Concepts and the sequence of instruction to facilitate literacy learning a structured literacy program has five characteristics it is explicit systematic cumulative sequential and multi-sensory in order to address the full scope of the reading rope and align our instruction to the current research ocps has provided resources that address both strands of the

014reading rope to Foster the word recognition strand we have provided three main curricula that aligns with the science of reading Hagerty being a reader and sips the Hagerty curriculum focuses on the development of phonemic awareness skills for grades VPK to Second and is delivered within the core instruction being a reader which will be available for all schools during the 23-24 Academic Year integrates foundational and comprehension strategies through structured literacy lessons aligned with the Orton Gillingham approach OG this resource will enable teachers to provide differentiated small group instruction in tier one sibs systematic instruction and phonological awareness phonics and sight words is a structured literacy Intervention Program that shares alignment to being a reader and the OG approach in order to better support our Learners having an intervention curriculum that is aligned to the core instruction

015is beneficial our district created curriculum resource materials or crms have been designed to accomplish Encompass both the word recognition strand by providing daily phonics instruction as well as language comprehension strand by building on comprehension skills vocabulary and background knowledge ancillary resources included in the Wonders curriculum such as supplemental readers provide additional opportunities for the development of reading skills lastly the Scholastic book room provides a wide variety of texts that supports the development of vocabulary fluency comprehension and background building skills structured literacy is a term created to help unify the names of the research approaches to reading including Orton Gillingham OG phonics based reading instruction and systematic reading instruction in ocps core and intervention resources are aligned to structured literacy and many key characteristics of Orton Gillingham the example on the slide illustrates how the sips

016program and the OG approach align ocps has proactively planned and continues to plan for professional development that aligns with the implementation of a structured literacy approach professional development opportunities include impact which stands for instructional Mastery of pedagogy and content training in collaboration with the University of Central Florida the two-day series making sense of multi-sensory instruction literacy and mtss Coach meetings and the 40-hour asynchronous reading course also outsourced vendors provide development such as Hagerty sips being a reader wonders Razz plus support structured literacy across our elementary schools in addition the curriculum and digital learning Department in collaboration with the ocps foundation UCF and collaborative classroom provide one-to-one tutoring for struggling readers through the read to succeed program roughly 80 paid Grant funded tutors which include UCF College of Education students Provide support using the sips curriculum

017within our K1 students additionally hundreds of unpaid volunteers also provide reading instruction through the traditional read to succeed curriculum focusing on vocabulary and comprehension Partnerships also have been formed for ongoing professional development ocps collaborates with aim pathway which is an Ida intellectual I'm sorry internationally dyslexia Association accredited program which affords opportunities for teachers coaches administrators District leaders and learning community leaders to deepen knowledge of structured literacy the Orton Gillingham approach and strategies of implementation in the classroom Pathways to proficient reading is for educators and reading Specialists and focuses on the why behind structured literacy and extends the entire reading rope Pathways to structured literacy is based on the Orton Gillingham approach and provides Educators the opportunity to further their Knowledge and Skills in the science of reading Pathways to literacy leadership for Education leaders and

018administrators interested in best practices and reading instruction and seeking to introduce a culture of literacy into their school Pathways to proficient writing is designed for educators that are committed to learning about the connection between writing research theoretical models and best practices for writing instruction in the classroom the read charitable Foundation provides Orton Gillingham trainings the Orton Gillingham classum classroom level Educators training focuses on the principles and fundamentals of the Orton Gillingham approach the graphic above provides an example of the updated 120 minute literacy block for kindergarten this tier one literacy block outlines the recommended allotted time for each component necessary to develop effective readers starting in kindergarten foundational skills are given top priority students start this block with daily phonological awareness instruction then in whole group the teacher will provide explicit systematic sequential and cumulative

019phonics instruction taking into consideration developmentally appropriate instructional practices the teachers will then shift into small group instruction during this time students will partake in strategic planned for and targeted centers that cover literacy skills from phonological awareness phonics comprehension fluency writing and response to reading and oral language development the teacher-led table will provide opportunities for teachers to differentiate instruction these planned small group lessons allow use of the being a reader curriculum Scholastic book room text or other selected appropriate text to Anchor instruction that help students build a bridge from boundary foundational skills to comprehension after the allotted time dedicated to small group instruction the teacher will return to whole group instruction to Target comprehension vocabulary and oral language development the ocps crms provide Best Line text dependent questions that allow for students to think critically about

020text lastly the literacy block will close with writing instruction that allow students to apply phonics and communication skills to amplify the impact of structured literacy identifying students reading needs in grades K and one will ensure we are taking a proactive approach to address the early literacy skills needed to become proficient in Reading this includes predicting significant reading difficulties psrd to accomplish this we must have the data to drive instructional decisions screening all students for early reading skills is the first step in a process to ensure students receive timely instruction and intervention to meet their needs the Florida Department of Education has introduced Statewide progress monitoring Florida assessment for student thinking or fast that yields big picture Trends aligned to grade level benchmarks however there is an additional need to screen specific areas that identify students

021that are predicted to have significant reading difficulties if a change in instruction does not occur screeners also identify potential deficits in the areas of phonological awareness phonemic awareness phonics and word recognition the brief assessments will further identify students who have deficits in early reading skills essential for fluent reading in the future the results provide next steps for additional assessment and instructional planning including intervention students who demonstrate significant reading difficulties struggle with accurate and or fluent word recognition and have poor encoding and decoding abilities also students who are at risk for dyslexia struggle in the same areas therefore early intervention using a structured literary literacy approach should be employed for all students the course of action based on the science of reading is parallel to differing degrees research supports that early identification and intervention are critical

022to positive impacts on students reading outcomes and emotional well-being and play a significant role in preventing incidences of reading difficulties the float shot above depicts the recommended timeline for screening early reading skills in ocps Dibbles which stands for dynamic indicators of basic early literacy skills will be used as the universal screener for predicting significant reading difficulties at the beginning middle and end of the year for students in grades K and one Dibbles was identified as the universal screener for ocps to allow further analysis of the state fast mentioned on Slide 20. research concludes that subtests within Dibbles correlate with being able to predict significant reading difficulties including dyslexia an additional benefit is Dibbles is administered in a format where teachers listen to students as they are assessed and the subtests are short one-minute measures if

023the results are strong students will continue to receive core Ela instruction with differentiation as needed for students that receive results that indicate a weakness in one or more areas further diagnostic measures should be given these measures will confirm a deficit exists and provide a pathway for instruction and intervention in the greatest area of need throughout the development of ocps's screening guide CDL collaborated with UCF early childhood and special education experts just read Florida and the ocps special education department the next step in the process is utilizing diagnostic measures for decision making if a student is identified as having some risk or is at risk for com after completing the universal screener for psrd or predictor of significant reading difficulties They will receive additional diagnostic measures to confirm a deficit and provide a data-driven path for

024future instructional decisions thank you diagnostic measures for early reading skills will assess specific components of reading such as phonological and phonemic awareness phonic skills or fluency these are more specific assessments for at-risk readers so intervention can be tailored to the greatest area of need these assessments will also inform schools of the skills students know and those they still need to learn ensuring they are provided the most appropriate multi-tiered system of response ocps has created reading assessment guides for grades K through 10. the above resource is specifically for grades K and one this guide provides specific diagnostic measures and essential skill areas along with a decision flow chart this document can be utilized as a Next Step once all students are screened to gain further information for instructional planning as mentioned earlier it is important that

025all students are provided high quality instruction based on a structured literacy approach during core instruction however for those students identified as having predictors of significant reading difficulties additional instruction and intervention in the greatest area of need must be provided in grades K and one students may not have a one or two year learning Gap however it is vital we shift to intervening early and often to ensure the achievement Gap is closed rather than widened over time the chart the chart on this slide offers an additional view of ocps's resources to facilitate structured literacy across tiers 1 2 and 3 which include evidence-based interventions in order to close the achievement Gap evident in our current data it is imperative that actionable changes are made to the way we teach and monitor foundational reading skills in early

026grades by providing an early reading skills screener to our kindergarten and first grade students and utilizing the data collected to ensure timely support we are cultivating their success as they become effective readers we feel like Dr Anita Archer's quote sums up the importance of our one ocps roadmap to reading plan there is no comprehension strategy powerful enough to compensate if a student cannot read the words now turn it back to the superintendent for comments the school board questions and discussion management here that concludes our presentation now we are prepared to answer any questions board may have all right thank you first let me just start by thanking you all I know probably speaking for most of the boards I've been looking forward to this it's such a critical critically important issue for our students and

027understanding the science and how far we have evolved in terms of learning how to teach is exciting and encouraging so let me start with member Salamanca sorry board that was on a chair before I got here so I think I was in line before I arrived okay so you'll pass for now I will I will okay I'm sorry member Felder thank you chair good morning and thank you so much for your preparation I always enjoy when Mr Bixler comes and shares with me by the wonderful things we're doing with reading this whole idea the science of reading and I looked at the template and what he you know his group presented today and I was just thrilled a couple of things that I want to just sort of emphasize or share my thoughts I've never

028known ocps and ocps to not have wonderful Innovative programs academically even as a teacher beginning teacher I saw some things that was just exciting and I was a board member I'm yet seeing it this whole thing with phonics and phonemic work you know I we were taught phonics and when I had this conversation and I said oh God we're going back to phonics this is a great Endeavor the setup and most Educators were always in this conversation whether or not it's progression or proficiency we want proficiency but we'll be happy with progression but if this template if it is followed we will get proficiency we will so to the fact of the teachers that are going to be working we have to make sure that they are presented with the environment learning environment is conducive

029for them to exercise this particular method behaviors and all of that has to be intact because a child can be taught to read but they're they're taught in different at different levels in this particular attempt you're presenting you can teach them it offers those different levels so that the child can experience some type of proficiency not just progression but some type of proficiency thirdly we do have programs and communities I know we got one coming in the Smith Center superintendent and bakari did share that funds will be available so that maybe people can come in and give the teachers the time summertime is wonderful they have time they're not any time restraints to really teach children how to read I'm so excited that this program that we're going to do it and based on what

030you share with me with my own little research looking it works it works but it can only work in an environment that's conducive so that teachers everybody's got to be on board and I'll share that with you APS teachers reading everybody across their gamut of subject areas Math Science History English everybody has got to be on board with this template so that reading proficiency can occur on every level so in closing I just want to thank you for your research and presenting this to us and the fact that this district is not giving up on teaching children how to read that is so important I want to thank you for your work thank you thank you member Felder the chair to step out so I'll be cheering the meeting until she gets back in a

031second I'm actually up next to speak and I just have a few questions first off thank you for this great work I know the board's been discussing the science of reading for a while and it's you know explicitly dyslexia and the need for us to to look at dyslexia screen for dyslexia and then get those interventions in at an earlier time because by third grade It's Too Late by third grade we're retaining and that's not the outcome that we want so I so appreciate all the work that you're doing on that I do have a few questions so we talked about first off the training involved because while this isn't like the science of reading isn't new the reading Wars have been around for decades the training involved to get us to where we are

032in this presentation where are we with our teachers how well trained are they in this process so that it will be kind of seamless because we know that they're they're burnt out they're stressed out and I just want to make sure that they're prepared to implement this type of programming sure so globally we provide professional development all year long in the summertime we actually started with the best Institute last summer that began to talk about the science of reading those foundational skills a couple of numbers that I have for sips we've already trained around 2 000 teachers already for being a reader we've trained around 160 impact which is trending during the year we've trained 953 teachers Orton Gillingham we trained 525 teachers hegerty's 1100 teachers aim Pathways has is around 1100 as well so

033this has been ongoing for about two years and so well you know covet kind of got in the way we didn't stop the transition we've been using luckily for us those federal dollars with Esther has really helped us focus on this and use these funds for training so we have more training coming I think when Miss Felder and I spoke you know one of the things that she pressed upon I know you've mentioned this too is our administrator is being trained also and so that's part of why in June when we have the instructional Leadership Institute it's strictly on reading the science of reading and what our administrators need to know so they can encourage their teachers and provide more training for their teachers and so training has been ongoing we have set aside dollars

034again for this summer for more training we'll have impact ongoing next year so this is an ongoing training that we're going to be continuing to do for our coaches our principals our assistant principals our teachers it's it's going to be a over the course of time but what's nice is we already have the resources already at the school we purchased them they're already there so it's just a matter of us continue to train train and train you're right it's gonna take some time but the resources are there to do it awesome thank you and then we talked you talked a lot about Dibbles in the screeners and the testing and looking at that chart it appears that we've got a lot we've got a lot going on in kindergarten and first grade so could you

035please just walk me through what that will look like the amount of time it'll take to do the screening for the student for the teacher again I'm very mindful of our teachers needs and their full plates sure so can you just kind of walk me through what that looked like in the time that will be allotted to do this good work I will I'm going to give you a very good very vague answer for a reason because Dr Vazquez has charged us working with Dr Armbruster to take a look at all those assessments that are going on in the kindergarten and first grade classrooms and see what we can take off their plate because we feel that putting a student on a product for 30 minutes 20 minutes those do those things need to go

036away and we focus more on that face-to-face interaction hearing kids read a minute here a minute there may provide more bang for the buck down the road so she's charged us and actually in cabinet for Dr Armbruster and the team to sit down and go through what's on a kindergarten teacher's plate first particular plate and see what we can take off as far as assessments to weave this in instead so that's the next phase of this excuse me over the next couple of weeks wonderful and I look forward to a report back to the board on what we've been able to take off their plate because I think that's vitally important so what so the testing can you just can you tell me how much time will be allotted like testing because we know that

037most of these I believe is done via iPad or via computer so when we look at the state mandated testing for kn1 and then what we need to add in to make sure that we're screening children which is important for any reading deficiencies what's the time allotted and what does that look like you want to speak to the Dibbles go ahead okay so for Dibble specific Ally in kindergarten at maximum the students would be given four one-minute assessments and those are provided one-on-one teacher facing and in first grade it's maximum five minutes and so like when we're giving the Dibbles I know that I used to do Dibbles when my kids were little like as a volunteer I would come in and help with the Dibbles testing is that something that will be a lot

038like can parents come in and help the teacher with the doubles testing yeah that's what we look at for sure yeah thank you all right and I'll come back around because my time is up thank you so much for this great work all right that next we'll hear remember gold thank you I'm very excited about the direction we're going in the multi-use and I just want to highlight some things that you said you know we I was part of that K ready community in 2021 where we were really working with early childhood development and many in the community in in trying to lift a lot of this and I don't think most people really realize that 90 of our kids brains are developed by the time they hit kindergarten and so we're already behind the

039curve if they haven't had that early learning so some of my questions I'm going to work backwards let's start with the Early Learning how are we working with our collaborators and partners so that they're on the same page for the kids that we don't see in VPK or with organizations we might not or may work closely with for that early childhood development that's my first quiz I'll get them all out that's my first question my second question is expanding upon that because you know I look at slide four and frankly it depresses me you know we just are not making strides for all the efforts that we've been putting in in moving the needle on this and while we absolutely need to solve the problem at those early years we have a lot of kids

040in the pipeline right now that are struggling and how are we going to connect with them to really improve their skills because what we've been doing doesn't work breaking out and taking them to the library just doesn't work so how do we do that better with your rope methodology and tell me about that multi-sensory because I think that may be key and my last question is how do we activate those partners that are seeing those kids the Boys and Girls Clubs the all after school All-Stars our faith-based partners that operate after school programs not only on our campuses but off our campuses and are helping with those kids that are going back to their neighborhoods at younger ages so those are those are I think my questions for now so I can answer a couple

041of them you know with the with the partners after school Partners I think that would be in an area or before school Partnerships we would probably need to share with them what we're doing and see what flexible do they have to kind of follow along with us I know that we have a great partnership with their only learning with the Early Learning Coalition with Scott Fritz so we can definitely reach out to him VPK for ocps we do have some numbers about VPK you want to share with VPK yeah yeah I don't wanna okay stop I love the bragging but I'm only two minutes so I and I and I love what you've done so I don't want to diminish that but I really want to know how we activate those partners and how we

042bring them to the table and actually get them to commit to train on what we're training on so I think yeah so I think the easy answer would be to share the presentation with them because we know who they are I think spending some time with them to share with them the science of reading just like we did with UCF we spent time with at UCF with their English Department and we gave a presentation to them so they know what we're focusing on so as they begin to work with their classroom teachers coming to us they kind of have a foundation so I think that same kind of model could work with hope with those products with those provided like the YMCA the after school ASP Boys and Girls Club we could definitely do that

043kind of partnership with them as well so I think that's a great takeaway from this meeting is to spend time with them talking about what they can do can they resource can they use their funds to support training can we support their training I think it's a great takeaway for us to do I think for well the presentation was on early literacy I want to make sure that we're all aware that we're not not focusing on secondary as well the program that we're talking about we're also doing that at the middle school and high schools so you know we have programs that are structural literacy that focus on freedomic awareness phonics foundations scaffolding tell me how it's delivered though that's what I meant I get the educational component but I want to know how are

044you connecting the kids just are they learning how to put together a robot through Reading I what's the multi-sensory part of that multi-sensory sure so the multi-sensory peach says twofold one with the primary educations that we're talking is the multi-sensory is part of the structured literacy approach so we have invested in multi-sensory kits so the resources are in the teachers classrooms and we've written written multiple grants so those pieces are happening then also within the structured literacy approach example sips those have multi-sensory components which have different movements tracing letters things along those lines as well that are put in there as well so it's kind of that connection to the brain to the movement with the different actions so I have a suggestion even though my time is up sorry I don't mean to cut

045you off but I think especially in the middle schoolers in the high schoolers they get excited about learning vocational things whether it's how to change the oil in a car build a boat like they were doing it gotha planting a guard whatever that is that they're into I learned how to make a lamp out of a beer can whatever that is that they that they are into if the reading and the sensory thing plus they learn a skill that can go towards CTE so the more we can combine that skills-based experiential learning that puts them on a path to credits we were at the I know I'm over I'm sorry you are breaking the rules I know I'm sorry I don't do it very often all right one last thing when we were at the

046gang unit last night and that presentation which was fabulous thank you to the to the team that put that together but I'm thinking what are the alternatives for these kids what are they learning if they can't read they act out and they don't feel like they have anywhere to go right remember if we're not teaching them so you're going to have a chance we're going to come back around this isn't the last word okay it sounds like a great follow-up five minutes we're looking forward to and I hadn't heard about making was it beer cans out of yeah that's in my middle school okay okay let's hear from member farant okay thank you thank you all so much for what you're doing I really am so thankful to the district for focusing on early reading

047and helping our kids to read especially through the pandemic I think we're we're looking at kids who really are struggling right now with you know the teachers with maths on or different things like that really drop that literacy rate and so I'm excited for what is to come and what we're doing I also just in our you know private conversation meeting I'm really thankful that you guys took the time to go meet with was it UCF that you okay and how you're helping them to see hey this is the need Could you teach this when you're teaching our teachers how to be teachers so I thank you for that because that is truly the every school visit that I've been to and I've been able to reach out to our teachers and talk with them

048one of the biggest things they said is this OG training has been transformational they every one of the I literally have not met one that said no I mean it really wasn't anything I needed but every one of them said why didn't we learn this in school why did you know as a teacher not in kindergarten whatever but that too so in that with that you know I'm a big fan of OG I've really I've listened to the Reed Foundation I've heard their heart and then I'm seeing it in practice it's working on one of the slides towards the end it was talking about resources for tier one through three is that just for kids who are struggling slide 27. just because I don't see anything with OG in here if it is there if

049you want to just show me because I think So within the slide so tier one is your core instruction so that's all the above so Orton Gillingham is the approach to the utilization of these materials so that's the whole structured literacy when we talked about explicit systematic cumulative sequential multi-sensory so Orton Gillingham is the approach in addressing those pieces so when a teacher attends an OG training or a teacher attends an aim training that has OG elements in it or they're using products these are the tools to help the teacher when they go back to the classroom take that approach and understanding that they gained so now I have some tools in the classroom that I can use to deliver that approach okay okay perfect that makes more sense I think I would love to

050see our district training every one of our kindergarten first second third grade teachers in OG and I know that sips is great and hegerty is great and those are then you know resources but OG I actually just spoke with a teacher this past week at one of my school visits she was moved from one school to a new school at the new school they taught OG or whatever they use OG and her daughter actually has struggled in Reading she held her back in first grade because of her reading she couldn't read could not write didn't know any of her like really struggling she's now in second grade goes to this new school the only difference was the OG approach she's now reading writing and like soaring those are the stories that I say yes whatever

051we can do whatever resources funding that we need to put into training all of our teachers and I know it's expensive but if there's grants we can find if there's you know I know Reed Foundation has been phenomenal with this and they really have a heart for this but I really believe that's our key to success and I think that was all of my I was going to ask about Dibbles but I'm glad that you asked about that so that was really helpful so thank you all right thank you member front before we take the next board member allow us here for a minute from the superintendent I think I just want to respond about OG and it is a phenomenal strategy that fits within the science of reading our team has met with them

052we have had some concerns about some of the implementation of some of those strategies especially when it comes to maybe children who are fluent readers I know that the team did meet with OG the Reed Foundation they've talked about those concerns and I think we're on the same on the same page right now and certainly our team can give you more information about OG they've gone through and have done an analysis of what is available through OG and the other areas that we have I don't want to give the message that OG is a one-size-fits-all because it's not and that's what we get into that habits it works for a child and it may have been what this particular child needed but it may not be what another child needs and that's why it's so

053important that we help our teachers become proficient in diagnosing through the Dibble so that they understand is it a phonemic awareness issue is it phonological awareness so that they are getting the right strategies and certainly if you have a child that's reading fluently I question whether they should be going through phonemic awareness exercises you probably need to look at literacy comprehension strategies at that higher level that's not to say that you may not have fifth graders sixth graders or higher that have those gaps that they would use strategies like that but not an entire class which is some of the things that we were seeing but again we're on the same page I see them nodding they had a meeting and I think all is good thank you all right let's go to remember bird

054thank you chair thank you know how passionate I am about this subject so I'm I'm thrilled that we're having this presentation today thank you for all of your hard work with this if as as you mentioned you know research in reading the science of reading has changed significantly and for those of us that you know have have were trained in the last 20 years or 25 30 years we've seen it you know we came from when I was in college I was taught you know the whole language approach and and now we're seeing much more of an emphasis on the decoding and phonemic awareness and how important that is that like as your last quote said that's kind of the precursor to being able to comprehend anything they have to be able to read the

055words right so I'd like to I have a question on page 17 when you have the sample kindergarten reading schedule since we are kind of we've looked at data we see that over the last several years we haven't made gains that we've wanted to see with reading instruction and now we have more research saying we need more phonemic awareness can you tell me how this example of a literacy Block in kindergarten is different from what we had been doing in the past so that we can see some changes how how would this maybe some examples of how this might be a little different than what we were doing so when we shifted over to the best standards it brought in more foundational skills so it was not always an acceptable practice to walk into even

056a primary classroom and see possibly a table that was using fine foundational skills because a lot of us have a mental model of we're looking at an apple and we're saying the letter A when really it's much more methodical there's deeper research on that so it was twofold one is we always had a 90-minute reading block or 120 minute reading block so one of the discussions we had was to really take a deep dive into that rolling out the best standards to the full extent so there was a gradual progression of those foundational skills because if we went from none or one percent to fifty percent that would be very shocking to even an instructor in the classroom the information that we're presenting today the trainings that administrators have gone through the teachers are going

057through you're seeing the buy-in and hey we need more of this time so this literacy block you'll see additional foundational skills there is a further definition of you know it's great we bought multi-sensory kits but where do you use them so we did these for each of the primary so I know when to use that kit you know so now I know where to put these resources these tools that we're investing in that teachers will have so as they're trained they can have those implementations got it okay so like when you see the whole group phonological awareness whole group phonics and then the small groups you might have in the past seen Maybe read aloud with you know comprehension strategies that kind of thing you wouldn't have seen those specific strategies being used good all

058right I was just going to ask about read to succeed that program when we spoke about this about finding ways to promote it and how we needed different we talked about it up here we need a different approach what we have been doing isn't working we need more hands on deck how can we promote it in such a way that we can push it out to the community and get community because I have numerous groups in my community that you know have come forward and said you know how can we help the schools you know what do we need I feel like if we make this a priority in our district that this is a huge focus of ours this early reading development early literacy development how can we promote this volunteer program where we

059could get so many more Volunteers in and also using our high school students as I said for community service in the afternoons for them to come and do it and staff members how can we promote this among our non-instructional even staff members I had one school that brought their letter grade up like two letter grades and one of the ways they did it was they had every staff member at that school mentoring and tutoring a student even from custodians to principal you know so is there is that something we could look at doing really promoting that program yeah I think that goes back to miss Gould's comment you know I think we need to get out in front of some of these organizations and just simply share it maybe a modified toned down version of

060the presentation about what we're trying to focus on I think we can I know I've been talking with Dr Bradshaw on professional learning we have pells that could be an opportunity to train pills just so they're aware of what we're doing so we're all we're looking at multiple ways to get this information out and when we have opportunities to train rain we're going to train at least even for awareness or actually you know having them assist us so we're trying to be as very creative as you can the high school suggests we took notes on that as well so I think part of it is that we make this transition now it's become more of a presentation to you all we can find any opportunity to stand out in front of a rotary club and

061talk about or literacy exactly you know this I was at Killarney I had a rotary club that came to my school and helped me all the time the adults did and so I'm I know there's organizations that as long as you talk them about what you want they'll be there so I think that's a great takeaway from both of you to cope to where can we reach out to these partners and say hey can you help us with this because we can fix this early on we're going to take care of a lot of things on the road absolutely chambers of commerces too exactly yes thank you I'll log back in wonderful thank you member Castro Dental thank you madam chair and thank you for this overview I appreciate it and I know that we've

062had a big achievement Gap that's been very stagnant for years and it's been really hard to close that Gap we've tried so many different things and it seems like this it's not just a new emphasis on Phonics and more phonics is going to do it's because we've discovered there's another approach to teaching phonics we used to teach letters and match the sounds whereas if we start with the sounds and kind of match the letters and it's a whole different way that kids can connect so I'm excited that we're we're looking at this and I like remember bird were I was also trained in whole language and balanced literacy and I loved teaching reading I was often fortunate to have students who were strong readers and if they weren't a lot of their parents got them

063tutoring so the weaknesses in our approach were not always evident because they were taken care of outside but for so many parents who don't have the resources that's where we're seeing these delays or or problems so I'm really glad that we're going to take this deep dive in this look and I appreciate the work and I know that a lot of teachers who are currently teaching will need a lot of instruction and because it's it's a mindset too for the teachers and wait there's something different there's a different approach so I know it's not going to be an easy overnight fix but I think this is this is really important and I appreciate that you all have really brought this to us thank you thank you member Castro devil member Solomon okay now I'm ready

064and thank you for the presentation I was like taking notes I was like I haven't cut off yet all my questions but you know this is this is so exciting to see us go in this direction you know I think I had a lot of the similar questions how we're supporting our teachers on on training and facilitating that learning for themselves as well my other question I think I've seen this from reading on how other states have implemented this in some of the areas of concerns there have been gaps between how well implemented it gets through some schools with better resources than not and how sometimes it creates more more confusion and even bigger gaps sometimes so I'm just curious on how like we as we as a district are handling you know different schools

065different demographics we have a lot of young teachers who are not just new to this but new to teaching so just wondering what we're doing now so for resources you know I will say we're have been very beneficial that Esser has allowed us to quickly pivot and provide resources across all schools they don't have to ask us resources we buy them for them so we have been in the last several years purchased them and that's what again Dr Vazquez and Dr Armbruster have asked for some consistency and so consistency is making sure every school every teacher has the exact same information in the exact same resources so no matter where you are in the district you have what you need and so we've continued to use that formula with hagerty's or sips or being a

066reader we've leveraged those Ester dollars to get those out to schools we've also used Ester dollars to provide training we'll continue to do training as there is one Forum we've got title two title four title it was all kinds of dollars that we can use so we don't we're not expecting training to go away when that start goes away we're just leveraging those now but training has been something that my Department's done consistently since I've been in in this role and so we believe in the power of the classroom teacher if they're trained and they're they feel confident the kids are going to learn so we'll continue that we have no there's no reason not to continue this and so luckily for us we've been doing that for for two years now the numbers we

067have a lot more numbers to go but we'll continue to provide training and so substitutes our department covers substitutes some of our trainings as well so any way that we can leverage our federal dollars or in our grant dollars we're going to continue to do that because we believe in this as well that the more trees will be trained the more confident they become the more confident our kids will become as readers as well Vice chair gallo thank you I think you madam chair so circling back to OG We There was I believe a couple years ago there were seven schools that we kind of piloted the program in we try to get training I know the Reed Foundation was huge in helping us with that endeavor I know that some schools just do to

068just not the need but the desire to do OG did it with a little bit more Fidelity than others and that we've talked up here this is about the results that we've seen from those so those schools that currently have OG are using OG they'll still be allowed to use it in this like because I know it's not in the hierarchy of the mtss but there'll still be if applicable and useful they'll still be using OG in those instances is that correct yeah so we are going to first ensure that everyone is following the plan that we've put in place one of the things that we have found is the inconsistency we're seeing is because there is such an inconsistency in the delivery of reading instruction across the district and so as I mentioned before

069OG is one one piece of it and so if it's being used in accordance with our plan yes but there will be some things that we are standardizing because we know based on the science of reading what works and what doesn't work and being able to have those schools do the pilot allowed our team to go out to visit to talk with teachers and administrators all of that was taken into account when this plan was put into place but there will not be as much flexibility as there has been in the past in the early literacy program thank you and then just to Circle back to member Gold's Point when we're looking at our partners and our after school networks I think it's important if we can to offer not just give them the training

070capability but give them resources that they can use we have a lot of you know morning programs afternoon programs that we could hopefully help give them the resources to help them with students I think that would be very beneficial I also think that we have down times within our system we're busting two routes we have kids that come early they're sitting around for 30 minutes or at the end of the day at one of my elementary schools they're waiting for 30 minutes for that bus to come it's become disruptive and discipline has ensued not only in the hallways but on the buses and so that 30 minutes why can't we be utilizing that even if we only have 10 minutes is there something that we could do within that time especially with our struggling readers

071to to put them in the library give them something fun to do but it's still educational we don't want to stress these kids out but just by utilizing that time better I think that we can have better outcomes that we're going to be discussing school start times probably here not before long that's another opportunity where we're going to have gaps in our day that we might be able to utilize and then lastly and I have I agree with member fraud and I think that was about the OG what you said so thank you the data when you look at the data we do very well in early early learning like we were above the state averages in early learning and I'm ignoring the numbers from covid but when you jump to third grade we're below

072State average so somewhere between kindergarten and third grade we're losing children and we're we're losing their proficiency we're losing their knowledge so I'm so happy that we're and I and I think that speaks to the superintendent's need for consistency because she's looking at that data too and she's trying to implement programs that work so that we can be consistent so that we're not losing the kids our data does not go down to third grade so I'm excited about this I'm excited to see what the data looks like in two years when it's been implemented with Fidelity I suspect that those numbers will come up and we'll have more proficient readers and I think that's the goal of the entire board so thank you again I just do want to give a huge shout out to

073the Reed Foundation because they have been an excellent partner and I've met with them several times and just the knowledge that they've imparted on me made me want to dig a Little Deeper made me want to look into the science of reading I've listened to countless podcasts more than I can tell you about which is why I know comprehension is huge part of the science of reading and that's what was left out 20 years ago when we did the science of the reading we didn't we didn't make that connection or that correlation so again just thank you Kudos and I'm excited to have this conversation in two years to see what the data what it looks like thank you thank you Vice chair just a couple of quick questions you may have covered this but

074on the training for our teachers is that mandatory training or is that optional training it's optional I know that I know I'm going down a territory that we have to bargain over I'm sure Dr Vazquez so we're in this was our first step presenting this information to you our next steps are to meet with the classroom Teachers Association and talk about about how we're rolling out the training and as Mr Bixler pointed out we have been training on this for quite a while and we've got some teachers out there who are doing this or their model classrooms which we will tap into as well we obviously believe that if you are invested and you believe in it the training is going to have a much better impact and so after the conversations with a classroom

075Teachers Association we'll be able to have a better feel as to how we're going the goal is that all teachers have this knowledge to be able to deliver the standards and help our children read by the time they are in second grade we have in the past required training it's been very very few times I think we have some from the state that have been required and so we work and we also need to look at the capacity of our team that's why the summer they're going to be plenty of opportunities for teachers to get paid to have the training we know that's not always a possibility many of them are not available so we'll continue to provide that training our goal is that all of our teachers will have this training and we're going

076to work with classroom Teachers Association on that all right so let me just I appreciate the answer and the honesty and the answer ah I speaking as a parent and knowing when my kids went school to school how very different education was from one class to the next curriculum expectations was all over the place and we are one of our guiding principles is equity and I just don't know how we can have equity if we have a reading system that we know is effective and we have children sitting in classrooms that don't have the benefit of that I just don't know when we know how critically important reading is not just for graduation but for success in life I just don't I can't get my head around how we could not make sure that all

077of our students have the best possible opportunities so hopefully your conversations will be productive I have a lot of confidence in our teachers and their desire and willingness to see our children succeed and I have tremendous confidence in our CTA leadership so I'm going to be optimistic but there's always a part of me that's going to worry so I look forward to hearing how that goes I also am really excited about the comments of member bird and member Gould and their suggestions about pulling in our partners had a conversation just over the weekend with CFA HLA and how they are branching out into schools that weren't normally on their radar screen because they were kind of focused on the schools their kids went to but they're recognizing that some of our schools that need the

078help most are not those schools and so I'm thrilled with their commitment to taking care of all of our kids not just their their personal kids and I could see them being a great asset in this as well but what I was thinking about as I was listening to you all talking at 43 seconds left is and this is maybe a Scott howitt question or challenge is how how do we really kick off a campaign that gets legs and where parents and yeah yeah so I was and the communications committee how did we really kick off a campaign that communicates we believe in our kids but only if we invest in them and part of it is our time and our talent and everybody has a role to play and that includes parents not just

079churches and not-for-profits and others it including includes families so I think that could I think we could do it I think we could really do it and get this community excited about what we could how we could change lives thank you so member Byrd thank you I love that I love the idea of the campaign you all spoke about you kind of touched on the importance of helping teachers to become diagneticians in Reading struggles and giving them that one-on-one more of that one-on-one time with students and I know I was I was fortunate when I started I started as a reading specialist so I was trained in you know doing Running Records with kids working one-on-one and listening to them read and writing and writing down all their errors and you know and then when

080I went into the classroom that was super helpful because I would sit with them and read and listen to them and when you're documenting all those errors you really can see where those kids are struggling and how every child is has different issues they're dealing with right so can you kind of share with me how you said that you're you're really kind of focusing on that a little bit you know helping teachers to have more of that one-on-one time and you mentioned you know the programs and how it's not as powerful as the teachers right the one-on-one time with the teachers so what are some ways that you're doing that or that you're encouraging that well the Dibbles training will be taking place into this year into the summer into next year so that's that's

081to come because we want to present that to you all first to make sure we shared with you what the plan would be the way we talk about the leadership rock or the reading block that and how to utilize those times we talk about that in our trainings in our impact trainings our coach or lead trainings or any trainings that we do that's always a part of the conversation so they understand the how and how to use their time this obviously would be a little bit more structured and like you could because you noticed on the on the literacy block of what you can what you should be doing and so we would begin to continue to train on that as well so a lot of this becomes PD professional development and how you can

082because we don't want them to see is one more thing it's just to reuse your time in a more efficient and effective way around the science of reading and that structured literacy approach to focus on those students needs good okay and then my last question was just and I've I've mentioned this before up here but about Vision issues with kids and I know that we do Vision screenings at what age do those Vision screenings happen do we know does is it third so I don't I can do the answer I just don't know that top of my head okay yeah we have to have parent permission that's a whole other thing yeah now my concern is for I think that's a real vital piece to all of this I think that there is Vision issues

083not just you know seeing but like deeper Vision issues with convergence issues where the eyes aren't working together with the brain all that kind of stuff it's very hard to estimate I mean some estimates have it at 36 percent of the population all the way up to like 25 percent of the population of kids have these issues that are very undiagnosed most kids don't get diagnosed and then they're just not reading and that's what happened with my daughter she was not reading in third grade because of it and luckily in a regular Vision exam the eye doctor saw a little Twitter in her eyes right at the midpoint and so he sent us to a specialist and then she went through vision therapy whole thing as soon as she went through the vision therapy she

084was reading so my concern is that we have kids that aren't diagnosed and in not just with that but with other Vision issues so can is can we put kind of an emphasis on having those Vision screenings done earlier possibly because you know and making teachers aware of things that they can watch out for with students to you know with tracking issues sometimes you can just ask a child what what they're seeing or you know if they're struggling they're having a lot of eye strain and headaches and even making families aware you know of these things to watch out for I think that's something that could help us as we look at different things that affect learning thank you thank you member bird member front thank you just to answer that I believe it's kindergarten

085and first grade that they do the only because my kids have been I know my son I remember getting those back from kindergarten first so hopefully that helps okay so just a quick question is there any way that we can get the proficiency rate from those schools that were like the pilot schools for OG the member Gallo was talking about there was seven that were the pilot schools just to see how were they before maybe like three or four years prior and then you know how they've been since implementing to date just so we can kind of see if there is a difference and how that's affected that we certainly can pull the data a couple of things to keep in mind number one will you be comparison comparing different assessments because we have best

086standards and before it was FSA second the demographics if I'm not mistaken of a lot of the schools that were implementing OG may not reflect the demographics of all the schools so we can look at comparison if they narrowed the gaps and if proficiencies went out but that may be difficult because of the timing of their implementation and the test scores but will our team will work on that perfect yes the separate like narrowing the Gap is really what we want to look at and see if it is something that's working and we do see that it you know all the schools are doing well with it I mean I really I can't say enough about and I know not everybody maybe is on the same page with that or feels that it is the

087the ticket to success but I really feel that you know from everyone I'm talking to so it's not just one child or one teacher it is everywhere that I go every school that I've been to if they're using OG they are blown away by it and just have seen success in all the students in their class so I'll just I'll come continue advocating for that but thank you so much for all your all you're doing all right that concludes board member comments Dr Vazquez Spike Mike oh there it goes vision for screening is kindergarten first third and sixth ninth is recommended but it's not it's not done by our district thank you all right team again thank you so much for the presentation thanks for the great work are we ready to move on Madam

088chair can we take a five minute recess so we can set up the microphone for this episode that's right I'm sorry thank you for reminding me a second time thank you and there's what good job good job it was good yeah we'll get with them we'll get with I'm not sure about the data thank you foreign foreign foreign foreign foreign thank you thank you thank you yeah yeah yeah foreign thank you thank you foreign thank you foreign foreign thank you foreign thank you thank you thank you so I think that's pertinent to the discussion thank you let's take let's take a parliamentary let me let me turn to John because we advertised that we were starting a meeting at 10 o'clock and we had a number of different topics on the meeting but our meetings

089have an advertised time that we start and our policy requires people to sign up 15 minutes before the start of the meeting if I have that wrong no you are correct and we have we advertise this for 10 it is a work session first and then the rural development Workshop afterwards but it's all in within the same meeting our practice has been you have to be here between 9 45 and 10 o'clock in order to sign up to speak and me the policy itself says speaker shall complete a public input period or public comment card this is policy bedh prior to addressing the board and may sign up to speak prior to the start of the meeting and so that has been the consistent practice of this board that when we have a meeting start

090at 10 o'clock for anything that happens during that meeting thereafter you sign up between 9 45 and 10. so in my opinion the folks did not get here between 9 45 and 10 to sign up to speak then they have missed their opportunity now I would like to point out for the record there are ways that they can email you and they have I believe you got two comments this morning from folks that were emailed to you on this and remember this is a rule development Workshop if this policy goes forward on it'll be made May the 9th they will have the opportunity to sign up to speak at that meeting and give their comments at that time as well so they do have the opportunity to email comments to you before then they have

091these ability to speak to you at the actual meeting but as for today you had to sign up between 9 45 and 10 o'clock thank you madam chair policy because I believe when we approved it after we needed to push the policy forward and after we were going to revisit it to add an electronic way for them to sign up online so that they could do so the day before to kind of eliminate the what we're discussing right now that would be my first recommendation my second recommendation if that's the case then work sessions and rural development should be done separately we should have a time for a work session and then go into rural development because rural development is the time that we are supposed to hear from from the public and when we

092have a long work session prior to that it makes it difficult for them to sit through everything I mean we just we just want to make sure that if some a member of the public wants to be Heard On Any Given topic for any given reason that we're doing our very best to accommodate that constituent and be transparent that's my point remember Salamanca yeah I agree I think it's it's during the day a little bit sometimes unreasonable to expect the public to be here for as long as we are all here when the sessions are backed back so I would also recommend and encourage a change to that policy if we could a another approach towards that could be that we put the rule development first and then nobody has to wait through the workshop

093if we do what you all are suggesting that also changes all of our public hearings but we put our public hearings ahead of our consent agenda so I think and I as County mayor I when I knew there were public hearings and a lot of people I always try to put that up front out of respect for Citizens that have taken their time to come down here we signed up for this they're they're doing theirs what they believe to be their civic duty but it's above and beyond what is called for so I would I think we could do it that easily and then we can have the other conversation about the policy moving forward okay but for the time being we are going to follow our policy and but there is a second bite

094at the Apple because this is not the final decision huh May 9th all right and I've already announced the rule development workshop and the purpose of it so with that Dr Basquez I will I'm sorry Mr palmerini I'll turn the meeting over to you thank you madam chair members of the board just to give you the timeline just for the and for the public we have been here countless times at this point on these policies but we noticed this to CTA and oespa on the Ides of March March 15 2023 we advertised this on March 19 2023 we are today having a rural development Workshop as you know we had a rule a work session last week on this our school board meeting if this goes through and you all give consensus today for this

095to go forward for final adoption it will be on May the 9th 2023 just for the board's information and edification I just had a discussion with one of our members during the break as you all know there are certain pieces of legislation going through up in Tallahassee specifically House Bill 1069 which may make changes in including but not limited to a required form that we have to utilize including that if a book is challenged we have to remove it within 5 days during the pendency of the challenge I give that to you for informational purposes only I still think we need to go through with this adoption because quite frankly we're not quite happy with the posture that we're in without having the policy fully adopted in the way it needs to be but I

096just say that for your information just so to preview what could be coming ahead but with that I'm going to turn it over to Rob Bixler Allison kivian Maurice Dragon to go over a policy IJ instructional resources and materials policy ijl Library materials selection and adoption and policy kec concerns about instructional resources thanks and for the benefit of the public after we hear from the staff of the presentation we will be taking public comment before board discussion go ahead Mr Bixler good morning chair Jacob members of the board and Dr Vasquez as the Mr pomerani said today is a rural development workshop on policies IJ ijl and kec we'll be reviewing the timeline summary of actions proposed revisions next steps and questions and discussion the tentative schedule you can see we are at rural development

097Workshop today and if things go as we hope we will be up for board approval on May 9th we will be reviewing iej instructional material instructor resources and materials ijl Library materials and selection and adoption and policy kec challenged materials I will turn it over to Allison Kibby who will walk us through the changes good morning policy IJ is being revised to include language from Recently enacted laws and to clarify the process by which a parent or resident of the county can object to the board's adoption of instructional materials revisions have been made to the existing policy language to include content formatting and terminology edits consistent with statutory language we made very minimal revisions to policy IJ since we last met essentially we just included some additional statutory references and I'm scrolling to find them

098page four in section three we made sure to cite the exact statute for the evaluation of instructional materials and then I believe we did this in one more area page eight where we again highlighted our consistent use of the word shall rather than May and those were all of the changes that we made to IJ since the last time that we met to discuss this policy would you like us to keep going chair Jacobs or no we're done with IJ okay okay do we have any public comments regarding IJ so Madam chair I'm looking at the cards and I have one that seems to have IJ listed but as you remember as others list ijl the one who has IJ listed is last in the order but as you remember from your policy you get

099three minutes total to speak any during any given meeting so I will I can advance the speaker who has livej listed on the card if you would care for me to do so who who's here to speak to IJ dementio Barton okay okay Mr Barton yeah well you know what I just thought about if it's possible maybe I should wait until since I had put all three times because if I just hit one and then all the time is gone I probably could just truncate my question you know just do them all at the same time if they if they're okay so Mr Barton you wanted to speak to all three yes ma'am okay let me think just give me one minute let me clarify so we are having three different policies and members of

100the public can speak to each of those policies and they have three minutes for each policy it's not the way I read it and I'm looking hold on hold on no speakers so this is directly from your policy no speaker shall have more than three minutes per meeting to address the board during any public period or any public comment period three minutes per meeting but we discussed policies last at the last meeting with general counsel and the difference between how we treat policies and how we treat other public hearings where in a regular public hearing if we have a large number of people we can reduce the amount of time but for policies we must give everyone three minutes it's always been my understanding that's per policy we could have three policies that were on

101vastly different things so I believe we've always given people three minutes per I'll defer to you all on that okay so Mr Barton oh yes sir would you like to take three minutes now to talk to this one and then we'll call you back up on the next one I'd appreciate it I think that's pretty sure yes sir probably you need to have this microphone oh okay okay no problem if that's okay thank you sir although that one I get to raise and lower right okay now I would I was just trying to I had a little question here on instructional material it was just when I was reading through HB 1467 it was very simple there was one portion of it where it literally in references we were talking here instructional material but then

102later in the bill it actually just referenced materials and what I was trying to find out was when it's instruction was pretty it's I mean it's a definition in here concerning instructional materials but when it just says materials what is it referencing at that time when it's just referencing materials can you give us the area where okay the language is just materials and does anybody have the statute up in front of them Mr pomerini probably pulling it up okay yeah I've got the bill in front Okay if you can give us the line number on the bill let me pull through real quick here I got a lot of red just a moment and almost to the end of the bill here we go all right oh there it is okay 288 thank you sir

1031 288 line 288 and can we stop the timer in this period of time while we're trying to yeah where it says provide the whole sentences provide a process for public review of public comment of public comment on and Adoption of it struck but instructional and just left materials and so I was just trying to find out understand you want us to read the state legislature smart and they wrote it but we'll try to I'm being a little sarcastic we'll try to figure out what we think it means yeah that was it so you can yeah is that all you had oh I was just trying to figure out what okay well stay there just a minute and let's see if we can get an answer so Madam chair as I think I understand the

104question there's a difference between instructional materials which is the actual material utilized that's curriculum for the lack of a better turn term materials itself is pretty much as I read anything made available to a child in the school whether it's in the library in the classroom Library Etc so that's how I read the distinction materials is the wide swath of information materials made available to a child whereas instructional materials is more of a curriculum and I'm looking at our folks down there just to make sure I they are in agreement yes they are okay so does that address your question that's all I was trying to make sure of that clarity thank you thank you all right any other speakers on IJ okay let's move on school or policy ijl library media material selection and

105adoption policy ijl is being revised to include language from Recently enacted laws to clarify the process by which a parent or resident of the county can request a reconsideration of instructional materials in libraries and to incorporate incorporate language from imv and kec revisions have been made to the existing policy language to include content formatting and terminology edits consistent with statutory language page two we made very minimal revisions based on your feedback from the work session last week beginning on page two where we expanded on the Criterion procedures for selection of media center materials and other reading materials including adding the definition of not harmful to minors and not obscene as based on the state statutes and it's on page two and continues at the top of Page Three in addition we bolded the word and

106within the policy under item three and emphasized and which is harmful to my nurse in both of those lines of text there just want to also point out that we indented both of those paragraphs so sub paragraphs there to make sure that it was known that it was emphasizing and clarifying what it means to be free of pornography foreign most of the rest of the changes continue within the challenge policy one of the requests from the board last week was the inclusion of who could who could Lodge a challenge including that a current District School Board member must follow the procedures so you will see current District School Board member used throughout the remainder of the challenge section of the policy you'll see that again here who can Lodge it who can file an objection

107we also try to clarify some of what was requested last week about who could remove a book and what would happen if there were multiple requests so I'm going to read this the following procedures shall be applied when the appropriateness of media center materials or other reading materials is questioned here and after challenge material this does not apply to state adopted textbooks and use in the classroom in the event of multiple formal requests for reconsideration of media center materials or other reading materials are filed by the same individual at the same School site the superintendent or designee shall require the individual to prioritize the order of filed requests section B challenge material shall not be removed immediately such material shall be available for student use pending a final decision notwithstanding the foregoing only the superintendent

108or designee may temporarily remove a challenged material during the pendency of a request for reconsideration if the superintendent or designee believes it will be disruptive to the student learning environment if the challenge material were to remain available or if the superintendent or designee determines the materials contain pornography or material that is harmful to minors or obscene any request for reconsideration of media center materials or other reading materials or other reading materials form which alleges the material as pornographic harmful to minors and or obscene shall be immediately forwarded to the district Literacy Council for review and decision the decision of the district Literacy Council applies district-wide on page 8 you will see references to the current School Board member as being someone who would need to follow the process outlined in section 3A and 3B and

109again on the following page with item a and again on the on page 11 letter I and under item five a and then finally at the end on page 13 you will see the reference to his current School Board member again and that are those are all of the changes that we've made to the policy based on your feedback since last week all right thank you Dr Kester Dental I notice I'm not sure if this is current you're button pushed before we take public comment okay who do we have the wishes to speak on ijl the first speaker is Aaron Huntley good morning is it still morning no it's not good afternoon hi everybody thanks for allowing me a few minutes to speak and I appreciate the comments and all the work that everyone's been

110doing on this policy as a former professional human resource person who wrote a lot of policy and then put it into practice I know that it takes a lot of hard work and we appreciate that on behalf of the students in Orange County I'd just like to speak for a minute about the corresponding forms that go with these and I saw on the one form for ijl has questions for the person protesting the material to fill out and it's a question five says what do you believe is the theme or purpose of material question six is what do you feel might be the result of a student using this material and I would just like to Advocate to the board that we perhaps also need to ask this of the people who are putting this

111material into practice in the first place because there's a current book that's in Orange County Public Schools called assassination classroom that talks about how students can use guns violence against their teachers in the class and if I mean I can I understand I can write what I feel might be the result of a student using that book provided by the county to the students what the result of that might be but I think you know I'm doing this way after and I'm reading your policies that say you know 30 days is going to take I understand things take time reviews take time but this is something that can be prevented from even being put in our school libraries in the first place and I would really advocate for you to make sure that there's a

112way to stop this before it ever gets into the hands of students there's a lot of different things I think we could really just step back what are these topics that we could we can talk about I know there's been a lot of talk about pornographical materials there's other legislation coming down the track with other materials but what are the big topics that are a problem here School violence and that classroom assassins assassination classroom book is clear School violence we have books that have elicit drug use pornography excessive vulgar and curse words and language is this what's really uplifting if you look for that I went into the destiny system and it showed that assassination classroom is at Colonial Cypress Creek Evans High School Freedom High School and Lake Nona right now and as a

113taxpayer and a mother I do not approve of that I would look it up it's part of a series an anime type series I would look that up but it has clear text that says assassinate your teacher and that is not appropriate so I'm not sure I haven't been a part of a lot of these from the beginning but I've followed the track changes in the documents and I'm not sure that the policy quite addresses things beyond the pornography so if this is considered harmful to the student I personally think it is but perhaps there needs to be a little more definition next speaker your next speaker is Clinton McCracken welcome Mr McCracken thank you good afternoon members of the board and Dr Vasquez it is a shame we are even here having to update

114policies as a result of the unnecessary culture wars created by our governor and legislature who created laws to fix a problem that didn't exist they could have addressed the teacher shortage crisis increased the average Florida teacher pay from its abysmal 48th in the country and focused on school safety instead we are forced to navigate through these recent laws and their negative impact on our students education and our teachers ability to do their jobs I want to share with you a portion of my story that illustrates how these new laws and resulting policies will harm our students I was a victim of indoctrination when I was a young child which created significant trauma my school and my community were unsafe places for me and although there were physical assaults too the daily hidden but pervasive attacks

115were much worse telling me I was alone in this world that who I was and what I felt was abnormal that I didn't belong this is because I didn't see any lgbtq role models in my community I never read about any characters like me in a single book in elementary middle or High School all I was told daily through daily exposure was that there was something wrong with me indoctrination is the process of teaching a person or a group to accept a set of beliefs and that is exactly what happened to me and because of it I believed there was little to no hope for my life if only I had access to books and resources at a young age that depicted people who were like me how things could have been different it was

116only later when I was exposed to new ideas when I saw myself reflected in books and media that I understood I wasn't alone this is why these issues and policies today mean so much and all that we do we need to ensure our youth know that being lesbian gay bisexual or transgender is nothing to be ashamed of we need to make sure we aren't letting extremists push our youth back into the closet denying them the resources and support they need to feel validated and loved and any of the policies you create we need to ensure we aren't diminishing the ability of our lgbtq youth to see themselves reflected in books media and classroom resources we can't allow extremists to remove books for our lgbtq lgbtq youth because of their personal religious intolerance toward this community

117we need to do all that is possible to protect our students and our teachers from extremism intolerance and bigotry designed as parental freedom to any of our youth who are listening to this today know that you are perfect just the way you are thank you Mr McCracken thank you very much let's take our next speaker I'll learn how to hit that button the next speaker is Mr Barton to return all right thank you again and I did want to make sure I say this thank you chair for allowing me to speak these three times I really do appreciate that well to be clear I this is what we have consistently done on these policies so we'll work through what the language says but this is how we've handled in the past thank you thank you

118okay mine are simple and of course I'm kind of just bouncing because I'm just trying to go from my own understanding here one of my notes on this area was a simple one when you go back through 1467 Houseman 1467. it was just a thought that I had and I'm just trying to see how it was handled and so it's it's that type of thing inside of there it says that all materials must be age appropriate and I thought about this here because like even with my own kids like I had sixth graders that were taking 12th grade stuff and so when you look and you see us with development of this and how to implement it great appropriateness isn't the only thing that we had to take into account we had to take into

119account age appropriateness when there's a diversity of Ages inside of those grades so when we're looking at the content of these materials that we're saying that you could be whatever 12 in or 14 and you're in a class with 18 year olds year olds how was that handled when we were looking at implementing 1467 in our local standards as I usually clarify this is a time for comment but not necessarily question but I would suggest that oh where may I find it like no place I'm sorry but I don't think that the legislature defined that very well so I think we'll have a discussion after we've heard from comments and that will bring that up but that's a difficult issue for us because it's not it's not very clearly defined how we're supposed to determine

120what's appropriate okay so y'all will be discussing it I appreciate that yeah thank you thank you I guess what I'm saying is that when laws are written it would be helpful if they were specific enough that they could be carried out without unnecessary litigation and debate and this one lacked a little clarity as I think we learned about a week and a half ago so let's take our next speaker no other speakers no other speakers on this policy okay remember Castor Dental Madam chair and thank you all for incorporating our comments and suggestions I know it wasn't easy working through all that but thank you I have a couple questions I have three three points first is this might be more appropriate for Mr palmerini the phrase harmful to minors is that are we using

121that as a was the legal standard of harmful to minors yes that is directly out of the statute 847.001 and just as a reminder for the board the Florida courts have interpreted harmful to minors and have seen as the exact same definition so both of those definitions are in there they're both defined by Florida law but they mean the same thing okay thank you so if something let's say a book is determined to be harmful to minors in the schools than public libraries and bookstores would also then have to pull that book because it is found to be harmful to minors by state law is that directed to me yes so just because we would make that determination our determination would not be binding on other libraries or bookstores remember that's a criminal statute that

122we're using the definition for so would be the police and the state attorney making that determination as to whether or not it would make the legal definition of harmful to minors sufficient for a criminal prosecution just makes it a little bit more complicated that we have a different definition of the same thing and that one Rises to the level of a crime that others might feel like well it's really not that it's really not a crime but it's so then is it really harmful to minors does it really fit the definition if others are not going to prosecute Mr Pomerania you're recognized member Castro Dental I don't necessarily think it's a different definition but you have to remember in order to State a crime against somebody it has to be proven Beyond a reasonable doubt

123that's just a different standard than we have when we consider matters internally here at a school district those are just it's just a difference of the form in that you're in thank you Mr palmrini I think that is still vague since we're taking it from statute to be used to determine if something is illegal that's punishable up to five years in prison but it we're still allowing the government or the prosecutors are still allowing at that book which is harmful to be sold to minors or in a public library it just seems to me that's a really high bar than to to reach to define a book as harmful to minors second point is when we say that we're prioritizing or we ask a person who's challenging books to prioritize their list if they come

124in with a list of 30 books what does that mean when they prioritize it they just give us here do this address this one book now and then we'll deal with the other ones later what does that mean any idea yes that is what we were trying to get at because we understand that this strains our resources especially when there are if there were to be 30 requests at one time that would certainly strain the resources at both the school level and the district level so we would ask the requester to prioritize which ones they absolutely want reviewed immediately so follow-up to that is prioritize would be like I want you to look at this one what do they say I want you to look at all these first ten it seems like it would

125still be a burden we did not discuss quantifying the exact number of those requests I believe during one of the previous work sessions we talked about possibly three but we did not specify an exact quantity in this policy okay if I think maybe we need to come back and actually later on look at that because it could be an actual strain on the resources that we have my third point is the appeal process I saw in the in the language that someone could appeal if a school found the book to not be inappropriate some of them could appeal that to the district what if it's switched what if the district or the school level found it to be inappropriate could a parent or teacher appeal to the district to reconsider whether it is actually appropriate

126that is not written into the policy I have not written that in Madam chair I think that would be something that would be fair that there is an equal way to appeal either way let's come back Circle back around thank you and we will come back to that member gold I would agree that we should have an appeal process I thank you to the parent or the Community member who who brought the book to my attention but because the I think it's a poor choice of a name for a book but just to make it clear the teacher is an octopus that's trying to take over the world and it's an animation and it's a manga and it's also animated as well and if you have found things that are equivalent to areas of concern

127where it may be telling kids on how to you know do something really bad to a school could you please email those sections to us and we'll make sure that gets looked at I'm sure you'll submit this book to through the process but I'd be interested in seeing it my sons are into anime I'm not familiar with this one but and it is a book I mean anime it can be more adults driven and this one is 16 and up two so it would only be appropriate if it is it meets our criteria for the for high school so I but it made me instantly look it up because I'm like well that's a really horrible name I we had Workshop this so long I don't have anything else I just had concerns about that

128and wanted to see the sections that you were concerned about so please email us thank you member golden thanks for looking into that I have downloaded it already but I haven't researched it yet so we appreciate that question I had one of the issues that Mr McCracken raised about his his experience growing up and which I think is so unfortunately very very common among many many of our lgbtq plus youth hopefully A Little Less in our community than in some other communities but not not knowing that normal there is no such thing as normal not knowing that they're not alone not knowing that there are a lot of people that feel this way especially when religions generally teach the opposite is why it is so important that we have books in our library that help

129our students know that they do fit in they aren't abnormal and their feelings are Justified and they're okay what the board did ask Dr Vazquez the board asked and I forget who exactly brought it up it was one of our parents brought up when we do have to remove a book especially if it is in that genre if you I don't know if that's the right term but to try to replace additional books for every book that we have to remove that meets the state standards it does not contain pornography it's not harmful for students but it does have it does reflect our lgbtq plus Community they each of those children whether they're transgender whether they're bisexual whether they're gay they're lesbian all of them should be able to find books in our libraries that

130are not pornographic but are relatable and I'm not sure that we've done that and so I want to find out have we done that and if we haven't done it why haven't we done it and when will we do it so we have encouraged schools to have collections that are reflective of the population that they serve so that's ongoing obviously we've only had the issue with books being removed what eight 18 months a year we have not formally put that information out to the school as we're waiting for really the policy to be adopted and then look at how something like that would occur typically purchases are done at the school level with the dollars that they have some of these books are have been purchased in the past as part of a package and

131so for them to then just be able to buy you know one book that would we would need to research and see how we would recommend schools do it in a manner that is not overburdened some and that they are able to understand the intent and there are ways I mean they have the Scholastic Book Fairs or they're able to some of the dollars they receive they use those to improve their collection But to answer your question we have not so put anything out to the schools to replace what they have removed so and I do know early on I was approached by it's been a while but I think it was by a book company or something offering that they had books that would meet that criteria so I'll try to find that email

132we have agreed that our purpose in this policy was to address the legislative issues and not go beyond that at this point so that we can get this done I would like to suggest that we come back when we have more Liberty to look at other things we want in the policy while remaining consistent with the statutory requirements and that possibly there be a policy that speaks to that issue of making sure that our libraries contain a variety of books that appeal to our students all of our students and make that very clear in our policy that's important to our students so just a suggestion as we move forward let me call now on member for rant thank you madam chair I thank you to those who who spoke I am in agreement that I

133do think that we it would be helpful if we had more definition of not just pornographic but there are you know violence and the amount of cuss words as I've said at prior meetings how many is okay if there's you know hundreds of cuss words or you know dozens of the f word is that something that's okay and it's literary value how are we defining that and I think for people to understand too that just because something isn't appropriate in a school setting doesn't mean that you know if you feel like it's appropriate outside of school then that's fine but in school we have to we have to hold a higher standard these are other people's children again that we're talking about I also would like to just make note the definition of of indoctrination

134can go quite a few ways the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs and this can go many ways and so I think this district has done a good job of making sure that kids all feel included but there is a great push for everyone in the community to align with the beliefs of the LGB community and there are many in District 3 who feel that you know we have to focus on every child every child matters every child deserves an exceptional education but to constantly bring it back to making sure that the LGB community feels uplifted I think this district has done you know gone above and beyond but there are others in the community as well who you know feel that what are we doing for every

135other child are those the only children that we're going to elevate we have an entire month for them and not only in June but also in October and many in our community feel that you know we can let's look at the children as a whole and let's focus on their character development not necessarily what sexuality they have or maybe religion they have or you know where they maybe are originated from but let's focus on character development and I think our books in our in our library should focus on that and building character and uplifting people's character and helping them to become successful members of our society thank you member from member Vice chair thank you I'd like to point out that we do lift up all children we have we have disability months we have

136children we have black history month we have women's month we've lift up everyone we do have Aries our population and not just the lgbtq youth and I'm that are marginalized and when children are marginalized whether that's due to Poverty that's due to their circumstances that's due to who they just want to be to lift them up and have them feel represented by a book or something in a library I think that is what we should be doing that is what we do and we have to lift up all children 70 17 of our youth identify as lgbtq 17 that's the latest study I'll share it that's a big population of our children that deserve attention to all children deserve attention and I think as a board we do strive to balance that every child gets

137a high quality education and that we meet their needs and we meet them where they are and we offer that differentiated learning that is so important but to those who are only focused on the lgbtq I can see why you think we Elevate them only but we don't we just absolutely don't and that's not what I wanted to say so I have a couple questions I'm sorry that on our website I can't find Destiny I can't find where can you walk me through if I'm an average person and I'm not a parent and I want to see what books have been challenged or I want to see what books have been removed can you just walk me through how I can do that thank you absolutely you can go to any school website can you

138do it on the district no we do not have it on the district website but we can certainly add that can we because as a like my kids are grown so if I'm looking for that information I'm not going to go to a school I'm going to go to the district website and try to navigate my way and that's what I did and I couldn't find it that's really great feedback we will definitely take care of that but by going to any school the drop down when you hover over Media Center takes you to the destiny Library catalog for that school and then if you want to search any topic you can click on the search options and search just that school or you can search all of Orange County Public Schools for the book

139that you're looking for can and maybe this is for the superintendent can we can we create something on our website that would make it very easy for us to link to Destiny to find out what books are in our libraries to find out what books have been challenged like put it in one Central spot maybe put it under the their current families tab so that for people like me or others it would be easy just to find this information I think that's important I think I think access and transparency is important and the only way that it needs to be easily accessible I shouldn't have to go search out of school and then go to the school yes we can do that thank you Vice chair remember Salamanca Echo member Galos it would be really

140helpful we could have it on the district side I think okay over the past year in this country it has not been a Banning of books of all inappropriate books it has now been about crime it has now been about guns 40 of the books been in this country has been targeting lgbtq Youth and the content of that youth has not been sexually explicit and it has not been about criminal activities or violence the next 40 percent of books that have been banned in this country has been books that have a protagonist of color so I want to make it very clear that yes maybe our district is different in that the representatives of here are concerned with pornographic content and I don't think any board member on here or a superintendent wants pornographic content

141in any of our books I think we have made that abundantly clear in all of our meetings that is not what we're here to do and we don't want that we want our kids safe from pornographic content but I also want to acknowledge that policy such as the ones that we're talking about today and the policies being implemented at the state level have been used as a trojan horse to get rid of books of students of color of lgbtq Youth and of religious minorities ten percent of the books that haven't banned in this book have attacked Muslim Students Jewish students and so the importance of our libraries of our media centers and of the content of the books is that our students are learning that is part of Education they're finding who they are their

142identity and they have to see representation in the books they read Because if they don't have access to that they assume that anything that is not in a book is different and anything that is different is bad I also grew up similar to Clinton in a world where I never had a book or a role model that was lgbtq that was very confusing it is really hard to be a student where everyone's reading and watching the same movies it doesn't mean that you're trying to tell every kid or confuse them on their sexuality or confuse them on their race it just means we want books accessible to students who are seeking out representation doesn't mean we're forcing anyone to read anything and while I support parents and I am a very big supporter of parents

143opting out of inappropriate content that they believe for their child is inappropriate I do not support other parents telling my kids what they can and can't read at the policy level at the district level or the state level because I don't want other parents to parent my children with their values and so I we're here to do what we're here to do today which is have a policy that follows state law state statutes but I don't want our district or scuba to forget that it is these policies that are the Trojan Horrors for what is happening in this country and the numbers don't lie it is a pretty obvious majority of the books targeting these students so it matters and I think it does matter for a district after we implement this policy for us

144to be responsive and make sure that there is appropriate content that is representative of the diverse set of students and demographics and this District as we remember Gaul said a significant portion of our students do identify as lgbtq and just because some parents have a different relationship with their you know son or daughters gender or you know sexual orientation does not mean that you get to remove that access from other parents and other students thank you member Salamanca Dr Vasquez did you want to be recognized yes thank you madam chair originally I buzzed in because I wanted to see clarification on the question that board member Castro Dental asked regarding process for a parent to challenge a decision so my understanding is that if a book is removed due to pornography that then comes to

145the district to review and then it will go to to the board is that correct yes so if there is a challenge for a book that's been removed for for pornography that actually does come to the board if a book is removed for other reasons and I keep wanting to remind individuals that we currently have books that are being removed and sadly because of this legislation and because of the fear that has been instilled due to the consequences some of our individuals are making decisions to remove books that they it may be pornography it may be for something else and there's a lot of gray in that area I caution the board when looking at the policy that we do not make it so restrictive that we give clear guidance to those individuals that are

146faced with this task this daunting task of removing books that may or may not agree with individuals personal philosophies and beliefs and I do believe that we are here to support all of our children and the statistics that board member solomonka shared are startling goes along with the extremely high suicide rate of our children who identify as lgbtq and while we do not support pornography in our schools we are walking a very very thin line when we look at arbitrary measures to give guidance to individuals who are making decisions about books being available and I am all for-parent choice and I believe that parents are their child's first teacher and they are the ones that should be making decisions for their child based on their beliefs based on their family structure but when we start

147imposing those beliefs on others it goes both ways and if we're here to say that we are protecting our children we need to really look at what we mean by protecting our children thank you Dr Vazquez member bird thank you I just had to what member Salamanca member Gallo kind of already hit on what I wanted to say but I just think it needs to be reiterated that using the term higher standard every time you talk about lgbtq kids is hurtful it's hurtful and it's insulting and what it tells those kids is that they are a lower standard this is a lower standard that we're showing in our schools or that we're they were promoting or that were it's insulting and it's hurtful and kids are hearing it these kids hear every single word that

148comes out of the mouths of the adults around them and I would really caution people to be careful about the words they use that's number one number two these are other people's children there are other people's children they're not your children so while we are all for-parent choice as member I mean as a superintendent said that has to do with parenting your own child and the way you want your child raised that is the beauty of Public Schools public schools are supposed to be places where all children are accepted all viewpoints are shown and experienced and if that is not what a parent wants for their child to see every day when they go to a school there are other schools that do not allow all those other viewpoints in for those children but public

149schools are schools for all children all religions all Races all beliefs and when you when you make statements that make people feel as though they are wrong or what they believe is wrong it's dangerous it's very dangerous to kids and if you're lucky enough to not know an adolescent child that has struggled with their sexuality and I and their or their gender identity and is not contemplated hurting themselves then good for you I'm glad that you have not had that experience because it is painful and it is difficult and it is it is something that many many many of our parents in this community are dealing with every day and are struggling to get their kids through and one of the ways they do that is by allowing their children to read books or to

150have books accessible that help them to navigate that or to have them go to their gay straight Alliance clubs after school and be a part of a community that is accepting of who they are or answers questions when they're facing these questions that is part of that parents support system to get their child through this and when we're not supportive of that we are not helping all of our students and that is our job in a public school system so I had some other questions but I think I'm good for now thank you thank you member bird let me remember front and I know you're hearing from a lot of us on this I generally believe that the people who feel this way are probably not aware of one the statistics the statistics are overwhelming

151the number of of our gay lesbian transgender our lgbtq youth that commit suicide is four times higher than the average student for our transgender children it's the highest for our black transgender students it's off the chart and that's just the ones that commit suicide the ones that seriously consider suicide is extremely disturbing to imagine what these children are going through those are those are statistics I've lived long enough to okay to remember what it was like when nobody came out of the closet I've lived long enough to have almost lost a close friend to suicide because she was gay which we wouldn't know lesbian okay we wouldn't know I wouldn't know for years later I have watched through college when I was in the circus when people that were gay didn't come out of the

152closet because AIDS and they would and nobody would come near them and had friends who had to go home and decide whether to tell their parents out of fear that they would disown them so knowing what that used to be like and then seeing what happened after pulse I was so shocked after Paul's 49 people just terrorized brutally murdered and terrorized for hours and our community actually responded with overwhelming support even our religious community I call it a meeting of all faiths in our Chambers to ask them to publicly say what they were privately saying in their churches about our need to support these people that live in our community regardless of our religious beliefs about Behavior to support them as human beings and every religion showed up and it was a moment when I

153was so proud of this community I was asked to hang the Gay Pride flag on our County Building I asked my County Administrator and now I told him but I thought I thought it was going to get a lot of pushback probably safety concerns liabilities nothing it was up the next morning and I got from this whole Community 1.3 million I got two emails only two emails that were critical and neither of them were terribly critical so I thought oh my gosh it's I always say sometimes you have to break somebody's heart to change their mind and I thought that was a moment in our community's history where everybody stopped thinking and judging and everybody started feeling and relating and then within a month the most horrible thing happened in my mind a middle school

154ocps student was beat up he was gay or they thought he was a he was beat up on his way home from school and I just could not imagine how on the heels of the hatred and the violence and the pain that these people had suffered that these families had suffered that this whole our whole lgbtq Community had suffered that any of our students would beat up another student because they thought he was gay so when you mention that you feel like we that some people feel like we are neglecting their children to help somebody else's children we're not neglecting anybody there's no taking away when my daughter was in when my kids were in high school I was at the what was the program where you spent the whole day not talking does anybody

155remember that one and I was like why aren't you going to talk for the whole day and she told me it was about solidarity with our LGBT Youth and it didn't take anything from away from her it made her proud it didn't take anything away we're not take we're not trying to take anything away I was just trying to protect every single one of our children and those who are most vulnerable need protection more than those who are not it's a it's just anyway remember ferrant you're next I knew getting into this I would be the only one with the viewpoints that I have and I have said this from day one from the day that I stood there and brought books to your attention this is not about gender race or religion and I've

156said that since day one but since day one I have only been attacked that I am a bigot that I'm a hater that I'm transphobic homophobic there are members in this audience who shake their head because they believe that and that is fine if you would like to believe that I am not intimidated so I will not be intimidated but I want every child knows that I deeply care about them and when I talk about raising the standard or having a higher standard it is about things like higher Literacy for our young readers making sure that we have a high standard in this County to bring forth amazing education so that our young readers by third grade are not dropping off the reading rate that's what higher standard means so I don't know how else

157other people are interpreting that and you can interpret that any way that you would like but I will continue to say that books in our County honestly I do not know why these are aligned with the LGB tqia plus Community I don't know I don't know why they are aligned with race there are a lot with the black community and it has I just actually found one the other day called push it is so horrific and it depicts a father raping her his daughter detailed descriptions it is so vulgar and so explicit it literally made me cry thinking how many children have checked this book out and literally had to go through it makes you feel like you are the one being violated am I saying that children do not this doesn't happen to kids

158in our County no obviously I understand what happens in our County does this make me against the black community absolutely not I want better for every single one of our children and I think our books in our library should reflect the we want to build character development when we focus so much on sexuality and how they feel in the moment we are not giving the best to our children we need to be providing them with books that you know motivate them to have amazing characters character development and so when parents are coming and they are frustrated and asking for a higher standard it is not to marginalize children or to you know make certain children feel like they're not good enough it is to make sure that they have the best at their fingertips books

159that do not portray their community in a way that is only sexual I don't think we need to do that and that's what a lot of these books and that's why we're bringing them to your attention and so I appreciate this policy I think it's it's very necessary I think we need to have this and I guess those are my statements Dr Castro General thank you madam chair I thank my fellow board members for the strong support you have for our lgbtq community our students our staff people in our community the reason why people believe you are lgbtq like you are against it member for Ron is because you said why do we have lgbtq month we already have that do we need that you brought that up and if there are people who I

160mean you asked I don't know why those books are predominantly black or lgbtq well you need to ask yourself why are those the predominant ones that we're targeting and it's hard for me to justify that you are four increased literacy while at the same time trying to ban books they don't go together and the reason why we have lgbtq month and we celebrate it is because as everyone mentioned the long history of being marginalized being victims of violence bullied and we are saying to our students school is a safe place for you we are here to focus on your education you're here to learn and you are accepted and we are not going to judge you and we're not going to say that because you're lgbtq that you don't have character so it is also

161difficult to see what's happening in our district where teachers are removing rainbow stickers which are just a way to say you're safe here that's all those stickers mean we're not saying we hope you're gay it's way of saying this is a place where you can come and learn and be free of being bullied picked on judged hurt and it's I'm the fact that the pulse Massacre of 49 people occurred in District three is not lost on me that it is three blocks from Boone High School that to me indicates the need for recognizing our lgbtq youth the need to support them and not just for their sake for all of our sakes and when we have books we talk about how important it is to have representation so that our students can see themselves it's

162equally as important for other people to see those characters in those books books are windows to the world and mirrors a mirror allows them to see themselves windows allow others to see other people's experiences and for those people who just can't understand the perspective I recommend you read a book thank you member Kester Donald the member from the only thing I wanted to follow up with is the reason for the comments and that I've made and I think others have made is if we could play back your comments right before about your explanation of indoctrination and then suggesting that having lgbtq Awareness Month was inappropriate because we're not caring for other students I don't remember your exact words but it you compare the two in a way that I certainly felt suggested that you didn't

163understand how very different it is to be a youth an adult in society today and the need to support those students I personally do not believe pornography should be in our libraries I do believe there should be books in our libraries where as as member Caster Dental said whether they're mirrors we need or Windows we need I think we need them both I think you're absolutely right that reading books and understanding other people's perspective through those books can help us all grow but I don't support pornography in in our libraries I think that's a line that shouldn't be crossed and I have always wanted to believe you've said it over and over again and you've said it when you're out there I've always wanted to believe in your heart and that you're here for every

164student and I'm going to continue to believe that but sometimes your words suggest that you don't understand quite what it's like to walk in those shoes and how important it is for us to show our support to our kids and part of that is putting the right books in the library so that we're not singling out those students or calling those books somehow less quality the book can have great quality and be about LGBT population it can be there are there are wonderful books out there and as you said nobody's we're not trying to teach our children to be transgender or to be gay or lesbian and for anybody who thinks we're trying to teach them to be that doesn't understand that you can't teach that any more than you can teach a child to

165be straight I just we are what we are it's not I know some people just believe you can just change I have a friend who went through a conversion class he's now married to one of the many men in the conversion class they both went into it really wanting to be accepted in their church and they went in determined determined to change who they were so that they wouldn't suffer Eternal damnation because that's what their Church taught and in the end they're living a very good life they're good people but they weren't converted because what's in the heart and how you feel is not the same as what's in your head member Gala thank you I'm sure I think you you said what I wanted to say very eloquently I when I don't think we

166sexualize children I don't think I agree with there should not be pornographic books there shouldn't be inappropriate books in our libraries we have found a few and when we found them and we heard about them they should absolutely consider review process but some we did remove because they should have never been there so I'm not going to sit up here and say we don't do that I would have probably a year ago said those books aren't on a library and there were some books in our library that are questionable that should not have been there and when we found out about it we did the right thing we removed them because as a board we're committed to making sure that we do have high standards and we give the best quality education to our students

167none of us think that sexuality should be in the classroom but when few only associate LGBT community with sexuality it's hard it's like so who's who's who's putting the sexuality in there I'm not because when I look at my friends and family members that are gay and lesbian I don't look at them and sexualize them any more than I would look at my heterosexual friends and sexualize them I just don't I see them as loving beautiful human beings that need our support some needs more support than others and I want the chair and others did that very well eloquated word but you know said what I mean to say but I just want to I just wanted to again say that everybody deserves representation whether it's you're Jewish you're Muslim you're gay you're straight you're

168black you're Brown we all deserve to walk into a library and pick up a book that represents me I was a little girl and my parents divorced when I was three back in the time when that wasn't good that was looked down upon I couldn't go my library and find a book with divorced parents because it wasn't good back then and as a little girl I remember feeling shame because my parents were divorced and everybody else in my neighborhood had two parents it is what it is those are just my life circumstances but how great is it now 20 years later that I that you can find books that talk about divorced parents even though some people don't believe that parents should get divorced it's it's a product of the society that we live in

169and when we live in society that society as it grows and diversifies deserves representation in an appropriate Manner and I support that diversification and that representation without ever doing any harm to our children and I agree with with church Jacobs I don't I don't think that you can indoctrinate and if we were going to indoctrinate I've said it before it would be that every third grader was proficient in reading and we would have saw 100 up on these forums today instead of of what we did see and the other point that chair Jacobs was saying was that when you say stuff like trans whatever when you're speaking the public there's a child at the end of that sentence and there's a child that heard you and there was a child that was hurt because you

170said that and so if you're going to stand up for all children and support all children recognize that words especially to Children matter and are hurtful but just hurtful thank you thank you member gallon remember front oh where do I even begin first of all with the Trans whatever comment if you do Replay that I explained it was about a male student who identified as a girl and then I said a trans and in my mind I'm thinking or whatever we're calling them because honestly I don't know are they trans are they bi are we calling them I'm not sure so I'm not trying to be rude I know that's the way everybody else talks about it and I'm not trying to be rude I understand every child matters and every child has purpose so

171if you're a child right now and you're part of the LGB community you matter you wondered a 100 matter you are valued and clearly very respected but right now we're talking about policy ijl about books and what I'm hearing from this board is that you none of you want pornography but every time a book gets challenged it is not oh that yeah you're right there is pornography in here it's wow you're against the lgbtq community and I have never once said that I am against that Community since day one I stood there and said it is not about gender race or religion it's about offering high quality books and when I say high quality books you can represent every child that is awesome I think it's great what you said about the having divorced parents

172and having that included in there we can have that without constantly trying to push sexual content on our kids and sexual content meaning like this book push where if I read it right now chair Jacobs would ask me to stop reading because it is so vulgar no child should have to have that available to them at our public school if a parent wants to buy it for them they're more than welcome but we're talking about books that we're providing with taxpayer funds and we have a very diverse community race sexuality religion and we have to come together and understand that we all have to work together to make sure that our kids are reading proficiently and then providing books that are academically Rich books we can provide very you know very a variety of of

173books that connect with each child but when we're when when the books for whatever reason have sexual content in them I don't know why these authors are doing that but that's not what we need for our students as far as LGB month LGBT whatever we want to call it as far as that month the reason I bring that up is because then in our schools over their you know their their TV little program in the morning in their in discussions that is now being brought in okay and so there are very are there a lot of people in our community who their families do not align with the values and the sense of you know there are families who who don't align with the values taught I understand that every kid matters okay so this

174is It's a touchy subject but at the same time do we have a religion month do we have like a Christian are we selling Christian month and then every then we're going to teach that every month and share that well not everybody in the community has the same value does that mean that Christian kids or or Buddhist kids don't have value do you see what I'm saying and so that from our perspective is what I'm well that's the reason I brought that up as far as the rainbow stickers I've heard from a lot of teachers who have said to me that they feel intimidated into putting those stickers on their door because if they don't have it there the perception is that they don't stand with the LGB community and that is just not true

175some teachers they don't want to have the stick around there for whatever reason but that doesn't mean that they don't stand with that community and so when you're bringing that member Caster Dental I believe brought that up and what happens to those teachers who don't want to bring to put that on their door thank you chair you know I think it is incredibly valuable that we have diversity of opinion here today and I don't want to I know there's a lot of people in our community that believe and feel the way that you feel I know that there's a lot of people in the community who are confused by the terminology and I don't think I understand deeply why it is offensive to those students but I also think this is part of the learning

176process that we do as a society together and we as a board can be leaders and kind of bridging these conversations that are very very difficult I think you know it's hard when you talk about books because books in our society for as long as history has existed right this is not just landed in this decade or even in the century where books have been the Avenue for Banning topics that we don't want to talk about as a society it was divorce at some point it was race at some point it was slavery at some point and so the reason why this always becomes a very touchy subject and it will continue to be and is because of that because it is inherently always books are kind of the cross-section of the friction points that

177we experience in our society every day and I understand the concerns on sex and profanity and all of that but you know I have my notes here one of the books that has always gone back and forth is To Kill a Mockingbird right Harper Lee white woman from Alabama writes a book that has profanity and racial slurs and it's a way for an author to talk about the complexity of our justice system and race you have Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck a white man from California you know he was riding not only a Nobel Prize winner in literature right but he wrote about the great repression the depression about a poor family and farmers in Oklahoma about economic hardship about the agriculture industry changing but I mean it includes profanity it improves it includes

178alcohol abuse and it just includes the reality of what people experience and it is uncomfortable but that is the world the literature has played in our society for a very very long time and so I think you know the perspective of folks in my community that I represent as much as you represent on different sides of how we think about it is do we give access to books and different experiences to students who want that and whose parents want that in public education because we all pay the same tax dollars for these books and I don't want to prevent you from your right as a parent to say I don't want my kid reading any profanity or any sex or any of the other things that are on these books I think you have that

179right and I think everyone should have the right as a parent but I don't think you impose that on everyone else because I do want my kids to learn about the reality of economic hardship the reality is a lot of kids in our community experience rape and incest and from their own families and from their own friends and if they don't have access to books and characters who model a behavior or how you get out of these really tough circumstances you're not going to get it from the same family members who might be hurting you and something like seeking help or seeking a community of religion those are all modeled and learned behaviors that our students might not have if it's not through literature and through our education system and so you know I don't

180think it's an easy problem it's something that Generations before us have figured out and kind of struggled with but I want to say I appreciate your perspective I appreciate who you represent and I hear it every day because I do want to cross those bridges but I would like for our district to work together represent our community and keep National politics out of it and stay politics out of it because there is a larger political discourse As Much from the left as there is from the right that forgets there's people and students at the end of this and so I'd like just totally focus on how these policies impact our community and our students because I think that's where we can make a difference so thank you thank you member salamonica member Felder wow thank

181you I've heard I was in the back and I've heard many of my board members in your discourse as we discussed this I do just want to just offer different well men I mean different but just my perspective I own the book push I read push and some of my students read push because they could identify the character Sapphire because they went home every day and they lived with what she experienced and she wrote the book I think maybe in a week's time in a short time she wrote the book now I gave them choices to read Secret Life of Bees and then a lot of choices I got permission from my administrators at Edgewater to teach Pursuit of Happiness and the fifth chapter talks about sodomy an opportunity to meet Christopher Gardner he and

182I talked and I shared my nine weeks lesson plan of teaching the book and he asked me how are you teaching this book I say because you're not the Lone Ranger you're not the only person who has lived homeless we had a valedictorian at Edgewater we did not find out until a week before the seniors which graduated he was living in a car I said he needed to read that book because he needed to know regardless of what people are going through he's not by himself yeah that was sodomy in it but he went that the book goes past that was just a an event that happened one of the things that was so phenomenal that Martin Luther King talked about in his whole ideology about non-violence it wasn't for black people to understand it

183was for those whites who could not understand the need for Community love he wanted them to catch the vision so he presented when he wrote that letter from a Birmingham Jail he wrote it to the clergy of Alabama because they had an issue with the law and he asked the question the same question Antigone asked Creon is it better to obey man's law of the moral law what you what is going to lead you so as we teach our books and teach reading in this great District that I was educated in and it still works we have to allow students and teachers the opportunity to share their perspectives push is a it's it's a book that deals with some dark places but we live in a dark World it doesn't mean that we have to

184continue to perpetuate Darkness but we need to recognize I can take you right now to an apartment complex in my district where some girl is living like Sapphire you know how I know because they call me they come to my house and I've taught them at some of the schools that I've taught in but it doesn't mean I perpetuate that but I let them know you're not alone let's see how we can work through this I just think as our board member Santa Monica said so beautifully we have to learn as a district to see the resources that we have and learn how to work through it so it works to advantage of what's going to be good for our students and every book that I've read that was controversial I said letters home to

185parents and I said if you don't want me to teach this book to your to your child I have a fresh alternative and if you want to if you have another book I say but understand that they're going to be asked to leave the classroom when we enter into a conversation because I don't want to offend you or the teachings you've given them and out of the five years I taught that book I had a total of three parents who disagree with me teaching the books so I want to end in just saying this we have a board of highly intelligent women we have a district that's led by highly intelligent superintendent who's compassionate and a cabinet that is sensitive to the needs of our children in this District I believe that we must support

186and trust this process because this is good it's healthy but we must understand again education is the great equalizer thank you thank you member Felder member called first I really want to lift up some of what member Salamanca was saying about having very different perspectives in all deeply caring about our students and our community is valuable and that this can be come the example of how to seek understanding and empathy for each other's positions if we continue to work together to listen and one of the values I'm finding in this discussion which is highly sensitive is that we are all listening and I appreciate that I am seeking to understand with some questions I'm going to have right now though so you mentioned about religious months and when I think about the lgtbq community I

187don't think of it as a religion any more than I think of Black Or Hispanic or white or Asian as a religion it is something that we're and this may be my belief that we are born into because I know people in all those areas including in the lgbtq community that are Jewish and Buddhist and Protestant and Catholic so I'm trying to understand what you were trying to say there so that I can get clarity on this and then all when we do black history month or we do celebrate Hispanic month and the literacy months and in disabilities and language and all of those things multi-language we do announcements we have cultural activities and it does spur conversation about things we might not know and hopefully builds empathy for things that were not exposed to

188because I think all of us would love the comfort of living just in the world that we want to see and be but the reality is if you want to live you have to be open to learning things that you may never disagree never agree with ever agree with I'm I'm not big on profanity my sons are of the age where they like to use it a lot and I am not big on profanity not that I don't use it because I do once in a while when I'm over the edge but there is a generational language out there right now that uses profanity on a regular basis to communicate and I don't accept it but they tell me it's not any worse than the word and I'm like yes it is but from their

189mind in their perspective so how do we bridge to communicate with them and I'm not talking about our babies and I'm not talking about developmentally inappropriate or pornography or any of those things but when I hear member Felder talking about real life kids struggling right now that are living in that environment how do we bridge and communicate with them in a way that they hear it and I really am trying to seek to understand this is these are true questions so when it comes to you I hope you take a moment to to kind of give me your perspective on those things I member front did you want to answer that yeah I think when I brought up the month it's really just to explain how there's so many students in our in our district

190so many and I believe that there are so many who feel that they are not heard so if they don't fall into the category of the different months that are displayed for instance like Hispanic Heritage Month it also it's at the same time as LGBT month and they don't feel that they get the same amount of recognition if I could say that it depends on what school but what I think I would love for people to understand and I absolutely love what you said remember Salamanca she has a beautiful way with words and I think is very you know articulates herself very well and I think we need to bridge the gap right now I feel like we are heavily on one side and then there's others on the other side and there is no

191bridge and so I hope to be a bridge to get all of us together at this you know on on one with one goal and that obviously I think all of us are here passionate about education we wouldn't be in this position I was a stay-at-home mom I was had a really wonderful life and to put myself into this position it's truly because I care about the kids I don't think anyone in their right mind would do this just to be blasted and so from the same community that is trying to say or or people in our community who are trying to say that they you know we need to come together the emails and the amount of hate that I have received just because I'm trying to sand for something that I truly believe

192in and I believe that our kids deserve great books I mean I think there's a lot of things we're going to have to agree to disagree I although I understand that there are students in our district who are walking through what the book push talks about I don't know that is in the best interest of every child for them to to to to to like read through all of that a lot of times these notes come home like are you okay with your child doing you know being a part of this class those notes get lost the parent doesn't receive it I've had many many parents say did you did you get any of the information about this I don't know if I really want my kid in in that do you know if that's

193happening and I said well I got a note did you not get a note and then they didn't get it so I think a lot of that we have to work together to make sure that you know parents do have the choice what was your other question kind of how you envision how you would well the profanity I think you kind of addressed with push and I think that comes back to you know that opt-in opt-out impaired choice that I think we're all talking about I think that's where we do have that common agreement that the parents should be able to utilize whatever tools they want to bring up their children and there's going to be things on both sides that certain parents don't feel is appropriate to be teaching their child sometimes we're talking

194about religious things I remember a long time ago when my boys were in the AP class for world history there was a discussion about Muslim and there it was taken out of context and they didn't understand it until they came in and actually saw the textbook in the in the curriculum so I think sometimes there's that but I also wanted to know how you see application where you see application of celebrating those two weeks is it appropriate to have you know on-air morning announcements is it still appropriate to have after-school clubs where where kids can go you know what when you brought those up that's what made me kind of think about that I think that's something that as a board we look at that but I mean I believe we we represent our community

195well in in the fact that you know our after school clubs for instance I know that's a Hot Topic at this point there's literally clubs for everybody like you're into Rubik's cubing I'm sure there's a club for you if you're into you know whatever it might be I mean poetry and there is the GSA Club and I have had people ask me so are you trying to get rid of that club oh not at all that's never even been never have I ever said that but we do have to have when we talk about higher like high standards it's to make sure that we're protecting our students that we are making sure that you know we're taking care of our kids and you know having adult entertainers come in for our schools I agree with

196what what happened I know nobody else here does but that's okay and that's the bridge that we're trying to to to build and so I think we need to understand I think maybe a lot of the tension that is being felt is that it has been sort of a one-way Street up until now many people I believe everybody on the board always usually agrees and has the same thoughts and so I know I don't always have the same thoughts as everyone but I hope to like member Salamanca said bridge the gap and try to help us all come together for the one goal of helping each of our students no matter who you are no matter where you come from no matter what life has thrown at you no matter if you are homeless in

197a car like you were saying it doesn't matter who you are that you truly can Excel that you can get in a quality education and that Orange County Public Schools would be known as a place with high standards of Education that every child comes here and receives a quality education and they're soaring readers and their soaring mathematicians and that is that is my goal what what's hard is when we speak and I'm sure I'm totally over time and whatever but like you had just mentioned about Muslims so imagine mentioning that and now you get hundreds of people telling you that you're anti-muslim that's not what you meant at all you're just discussing things and so that is what is heart is when I discuss topics that not a lot of people want to discuss and

198then I'm told that I'm something that I'm not I'm just here as a loving caring kind individual okay thank you I wanted to respond member front just to one question that you put out I think sincerely about that we don't have a Christian awareness month and I'm sure you're probably aware but that stems from the Constitution and Establishment Clause in the First Amendment that separates church and state yeah and so it's not a discrimination against Christians but we can't pick out one religion and celebrate that religion so the only other thing I wanted to add to or come in for a close on is that well one one other minor correction we actually don't all agree on everything probably not as big a disagreement as this might appear to be but I'm not sure that

199this is as big of a disagreement as it appears to be and I think that having this conversation has been very healthy and when you talk about bridging gaps you can't Bridge gaps from a distance you can't bridge I don't believe you can change people's minds by arguing I think that you have to listen and you have to work to understand and there has to be clarity about what we are disagreeing when we do disagree and I think that a lot has come out of our conversation here today and I also am always proud of this board and some people will not be proud of me for saying this but I am always proud of this board for its ability to disagree and still remain respectful because there's far too little of that in the

200world today and I know our teachers watch I know there was a point where parents were writing to me saying I can't watch your meetings with my kids anymore because of some of the dialogue that was taking place at the diocese here and I am proud today that people can watch and they can see a conversation among adults behaving like adults and having an honest discussion so member Salamanca I'm always just Blown Away by you and your perspective I would say your maturity but that sounds like an awful condescending thing to say but you're just you are just you're very insightful and so on that note I am going to let the vice chair close this out and I'm going to look for a motion by sure we have one more policy oh no that's

201right we don't want a motion I'm sorry it's a rule making never mind the pop the motion go ahead I know go ahead thank you madam chair I'll be I'll be very brief I was just going to say thank you for all your kind words remember someone Salamanca as usual you just kind of brought it you just kind of zipped it up in a nice little neat package and you brought us back to the center which is where we need to be we do disagree I've heard from parents that I have a few points like member front I've a lot of them are my friends so it's just it All Views should be represented and I do and I agree with the chair that this probably was a long overdue conversation that the board needed

202to have and so I hope it leads to a greater understanding from all of us thank you thank you all right let's take up our next policy kec challenge materials we are recommending this policy for repeal because it has been incorporated into policy ijl thank you any public comments hold on yes there is it's Mr Barton Army Mr Barton Mr Barton we're going to repeal it if that's okay okay well I say that I mean it still has to have a public hearing but any board discussion okay then this will this will all move forward yeah I just need to make sure that there is consensus on the board to move it forward when I said if yeah but I should have said it is moving forward because I'm looking around and when nothing's lit

203up gotcha that's pretty good indication to me I'm not reading Minds I'm reading the board in front of me thank you any further business to come before the board before we adjourn no we need to announce our executive session yes we are going to recess this meeting and go into executive session on three pieces of litigation which we previously announced first we're going to grab a quick bite yes yes for lunch or we're taking it with us what is your recommendation I will take you all at your pleasure take a minute all right we're going to take it okay I know you told me but we still need a minute foreign