001Stand for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the republic nation for all. Please stand for a moment of silence. Do we have any public comments? >> Okay, let's move to our discussion item about the facilities. >> Go ahead. >> Okay. Uh, Madam Chair, we've uh discussed a few times now the need to uh come back together and really revisit our conversation on facilities. Uh, we've had conversations that really have gone back a couple years now. Uh and if you take a look at the document that is in your packet and also up here on the screen, what uh Erin and myself were able to do is we went back through and scanned really board meeting uh minutes um former feasibility studies, former conversations with board of supervisors,
002uh members at meetings and such and really created kind of a facilities chronological timeline. And if you look at that in your packet, it really begins uh February of 2023. Uh this was before many of us were here. In fact, this conversation on a preschool uh began before we were all here. Yeah. So it must have begun with Dr. Vince and David you were still here. Okay. So that was the very beginning and that was uh pre2023 uh 2022ish. Thank you. >> Okay. 2022. >> Yes. Um we had several meetings with Dr. Benson and it was over at the um oh was here second floor I guess and um I just c I remember Kathy Bender being there and um Richard the chairman of the board of supervisors um Richard Granger anyway and um and
003Dr. Benson and um somebody from >> Mosley there was nine of us I just remember nine and I remember the one Fish was the um what's her name? >> Jackie Fish I think was there so anyway those were then we had um several meetings and it was about the preschool. >> Excellent. Okay. So what you'll what you'll see here is really going all the way back to to that time starting with that final product of the Mosley architectural feasibility study. Each each one of those uh dates and and documents associated with those dates is hyperl. So, if you weren't here and really want to get deep into some of the conversations that occurred between now and then, all of those are um documents that when you click on that green text, it'll take you to
004either the feasibility study or the meeting minutes. Uh and then it goes on, you know, with a number of things. So, I I don't think I need to walk everybody through all of that that we've done up to this point. Uh as you as you know where we are now um ju just since November we we're sitting on a uh King George um referendum that the school or excuse me the community has requested the building of a new school. Uh the school board came together and we had conversations about uh capacity issues and some of the things that we could address with capacity. You guys remember remember Carrie? I don't know if you were here yet or maybe that was like right around your first meeting. That's right. Uh we were in the upstairs conference
005room and we talked about we had a schematic and we talked about if we built a new school, this is how we could shuffle numbers. We talked about grading organizations and so on. Uh and then since then uh the feasibility study uh for the vocational building was done and uh money was provided from by the board of supervisors to uh conduct that feasibility study. Uh, and we're sitting on that feasibility study right now. As you all know, a lot of this conversation has to do with enrollment versus capacity, the number of students we have, uh, versus the number of students that we can accommodate. So, if you take a look down, uh, this really kind of drives this conversation. You'll see our enrollment numbers that date all the way back to 2018 2019. And I
006think what's most important if we go through that progression all the way up to 24 25 and 25 26 is uh as we've begun this school year our numbers are down right now. Uh and we've taken a look at that in a a lot of different ways. We've kind of assessed that and tried to theorize and and I've heard a number of different theories right now as to why that number is down. We're at, as of today, we've got about 154 less students this school year than we had last year. We had a much smaller number of uh kindergarten students, 44 less kindergarten students uh enrolled this year than we had last year. And really, when we dig through that data, uh it's not we still have about the same number of homeschool students that
007we've had in the past. We've had uh we average around 60 homeschool student families that report to us. When I last checked, we were at 58 this year. Uh when you dig that when you dig a lot of that data apart, we have reasons for each uh family or each set of children that leave us. There's a lot of families right now that are leaving the state of Virginia from what we've seen. Uh so there's been some theories. We've looked at Welen Cooper. for Welden Cooper right now is saying the birth rate is much lower uh and and the most so that could explain maybe the kindergarten situation. Uh we've also theorized that with a lot of the changes with the federal government employees, maybe a lot of folks are leaving Virginia because of uh
008layoffs in the federal government. Uh we see a lot of uh people going to far off places like Texas and obviously Maryland is is another big one, but we've got a lot of students leaving the state of Virginia right now. So we are down uh in total numbers. But if you go down to the final slide, and all I'm doing right now is just kind of priming the pump, and I'll turn this over to you guys to talk a little more about what you think we need in terms of facilities moving forward. But if you take a look at our numbers and break them down by school, uh our our currently our high school is still over capacity. Our high school is uh accommodates 1500 students. And again, these numbers are very fluid right now.
009uh that I I even have updated numbers from today uh which are which are more accurate than the numbers that you see in that final slide. As of today, we have uh 1,511 students enrolled at the high school. Um and and we can accommodate 1500. As of today, we have 1,66 students at the middle school. That building accommodates 1,538. So, we've always known that our middle school has a decent amount of capacity following the renovation. Uh and then our three elementary schools. Right now, as of today, King George Elementary School has 592 K through5 students, but 120 preschool students. To add to that, PTOAC Elementary School has 540. Capacity for PTOAC Elementary School is 751. And Sealston Elementary School this year has 681 students. Currently, uh capacity for that is 717. So, if you remember
010last year with the inclusion of the preschool at King George Elementary, Sealston was over capacity. Uh, it's now under capacity. Uh, King George Elementary School is probably our closest school to capacity right now if you include the preschool students, which we obviously have to. Uh, and then Sealston has some some room right now at 540 and a capacity of 751. Um, so again, right now our secondary or excuse me, specifically our high school is is up over capacity and uh our elementarymentaries are are well within capacity at the moment. So, as you all know, we've talked about a number of different options. We've talked about a fourth elementary school. We've talked about the need for a preschool. Uh, and we've most recently talked about uh the need for expanding our vocational center at King George
011High School. So I think our desire and motivation this evening is really to get consensus from the board on what direction we need to prioritize moving forward uh and then what direction we need to communicate with our board of supervisors on that the school board desires to to pursue. >> So I think how we'll um we'll just go round table and everybody can you know give their input. But my question for you Dr. board before we go we go on is um so the referendum addressed the preschool elementary school issue and then um I think at one point you had said we had money in the budget for the votech in addition to that. Am I did I misunderstand? >> We just had money in last year's budget from the board of supervisors for the
012feasibility study that was completed for the vocational center. uh right now and you'll you have a tab or one of those green um uh links where it says upon it's your July 8th upon schoolboard request RRMM provides cost models for vocational buildings. So you remember they came to us and they gave us a presentation and they gave us that first cost model and then we asked them we said what would it what would the cost be if we expanded the footprint of that building if we knocked that building down and built an entirely new building on it and at the end of that meeting we also asked what would it cost if we did a two-story building at the vocational center. You can see all of those uh cost estimates there and they also show
013you really in that document if you click on it what uh what the footprint of that building would look like and that this is the existing vocational building in between the middle and high school. So uh right now we don't have money set aside for that. Uh the highest estimate there for that two-story building at the very bottom of that is somewhere in the ballpark of 18 million. That's the high end and that includes escalation of 8% depending on when we ask for that money. Uh in today dollars it cost it looks like it's 17 million7 and then the prices get less expensive as you move up to the options that that are above. But when we talk about that, we have to talk about turnaries and those those facilities that we put in there
014are going to cost quite a bit. If we use culinary, if you we use automotive, all that stuff's got to be included in this 57 mil that we're talking about. >> That's correct. So, if I remember correctly, these cost estimates, I think they gave us the analogy. This includes everything that if you took the building and flipped it upside down, it wouldn't fall out. So, when you're talking about equipment um for culinary programs and you're talking about instructional supplies that would not be involved in the building, those would be extra. And if you're talking extra cost, you're talking instructional positions. You're talking um you know, there is some long-term cost that would be associated with opening that vocational building. additional ad, you know, possibly additional uh custodial staff. Um food services wouldn't be part of
015that. We might need some type of administrative support in that building. There are some other things that we need to consider in that building. >> Just just the welding machines alone and and HBAC and the electricity and the plumbing all this. No, it was not. It was not part of the 57 million. But could we use that for that 57 million? Could we use that 57 million for that? Yes. And I I personally think right now with the way AI is going that that's the way we need to go because, you know, a lot of these a lot of these jobs that are out there now are not going to be there in 15 years. you know, but things like electrician and plumbing and HBAC and welding, none of that going to go away. It's
016something that's needed in the county, but you know, AI is going to take a lot of other jobs away. >> Didn't we already decide that building a new vote was more reasonable renovated? I just want to take a vote on that. >> Yes. >> Just want to make sure we're still in agreement with that. what we need to agree on is that the priorities of the building. So, >> um just what are >> just looking well looking at the numbers >> um it looks like obviously the the high school is overcrowded and then if you look at the number just look at the number of students at the middle school, right? They're all going to be moving up to the high school. Um, so, uh, I guess we'll just go around around the room and
017see who thinks that the VOTE should be number one and who thinks that a new elementary school. I don't know how else to do it. Do you guys agree? >> Well, yeah, but I think we need to know what options we have one through five, whatever. So, we have vote. >> So, I I think we could do it in phases. So I I think the first one is is you know what do we prioritize right now in terms of expansion or reopening of the vocational center. Uh the referendum was for the fourth elementary school which was the $57 million request. Uh which also included the preschool at the time. So really, you know, we're talking about how do we serve our needs at the elementary level. That would be the fourth elementary school. And we've
018talked a little bit about where our elementary numbers are right now. >> So we have votech, we have elementary. >> I think those are our three kind of general big options. There's a I'd like to go around if we have further questions. I I agree with what you said, but I have questions. >> Well, I have a comment that we asked our community, right, to vote on an elementary school referendum, right, and they voted for it. So if we don't take action, we're not listening to our constituents. you only gave them one option. If you were to go to them and say, "Do we want this, this, or this?" I think they'd be happy with any of these. >> And I think it's important to note that it's very important to listen to our constituents.
019uh that referendum we we all had some grow some heartache on on how that whole thing went through as well in terms of um and we and unfortunately it passed but I think it passed because as to your point Colleen I think our community is very interested in in us investing in education and investing in our kids in whatever fashion we think that is most appropriate. >> Okay. you mind? >> I was just going to say you have qu everybody has questions. So why don't we start with the questions and you were going to >> Is there a I mean what we're looking for is we need to have something to take to the board of supervisors in December and we put together 10ear plan between now and then to present that to the board
020of supervisors in December. In that 10-year plan, we can talk about uh tech building. We can talk about preschool. And one of the things that some of us at I think Kathy brought this up was and it I guess we're seeing it's working really well with preschool right now at the elementary school is that we put a preschool in each elementary building. And that we can do if and here's one way to do that is to bring the middle school to five five six seven and eight. That way we free up on at least you know one grade or one grade level in each uh elementary school and that will take care of the preschool needs that we need. The only thing that's left out then is your office is still the same, you know.
021But but I mean but we need a consensus of the five of us on a 10-year plan uh so that the board of supervisors can be able to move along with what they have too because hopefully they're working on a 10-year plan now something for the county and that you know they can fit that right in there on a some type of a 10-year plan if we can come up with that. >> That's a great idea. I just wanted to ask a question because that's a great idea, but I had questions before we go to ideas. And so I think something that I heard from board of supervisors over the last three years actually um even before the change in some of the supervisors was they didn't necessarily agree that the need was there. So,
022I'm concerned that if they look at where it is today, it will kind of confirm what I had heard from several board of supervisors, both those that were there and are there now, that there's no need to go forward with a lot of these things. So, I think um Weldon Cooper is one aspect that we could use, but I think also is okay, I see this year, then we look at the last several years since I've been on the board the last over three and a half years. what I'm concerned with. Okay, obviously up until this year we were like this. We were on on an uphill trend with basically everything. You had mentioned many times Dr. Boyd 2%. Uh this year that's changed. My question would be the better way to look at that
023is what has it been for the previous period of time such as the last five years, the last 10 years because whenever you look at these kinds of things, there are so many variables involved but one of the big variables is what has been the trend for the last like 10 to 15 years and if it's consistently been even though there's probably a couple of dips over those years, you know, to give an example, if you have three years that all a sudden we're at a two to 5% then all a sudden one year it's down then the next three we have this well you don't look at the one that was down you look at what has been the trend and so I think we need to have to present that because when you
024look at this year that's going to um verify what I've heard so some of the board of supervisors so do we have that information going back >> I think you're absolutely right Mr. Bush I don't think we want to you know take a look at one year and kind of think that that's what the future is going to look like >> exactly couple things >> I can tell you right now uh Mr. Davis has mentioned on the board of supervisors taking a look. So you're talking about dem demograph demographicers what is I can't say it right but um it's Weldon Cooper I mean Welen Cooper will do this for I mean if you really want to do a full-scale demographic study it's it's a healthy cost associated with it. I know the I know the
025board of supervisors is considering it right now and they're taking a look at um things like the number of houses that potentially can be built in the county. Uh and and some of those other factors that I think are important. Uh this speaking of important factors, this is the first year right now that we're going through which where Hopyard is completely built out. So Hopyard is this is the first year and in which they're not building more houses in Hopyard. Although there's other houses and other communities popping up in King George as well. So I know the board of supervisors is working on that demographic study right now. You can take a look back and see um where we are in terms of population in that in that graph there. It has been a steady
026incline up until this past year. I can tell you just if you look at some of the information on the Welden Cooper website and you start asking questions of those that work for Weldon Cooper, they're having a very difficult time postcoid try to trying to figure out what's going on demographically. Uh there's a lot of factors in play uh with the federal government which Virginia has a is influenced greatly by. Uh there's a lot of things right now that's making it very difficult for even experts like that to make predictions about where we stand as you know community. >> I I know that and you're you're right. But just looking at where we are as a school, what was it like in the last 10 to 15 years just for us? You're right. >> Is
027that so going back to 2018, you can see >> I know do can we go back farther than that or not? Uh we we probably could go back >> seven years. Listen, my experience, seven years is not enough when you're talking about this. >> Yeah, we can we can go back we can go back further than that. I I started in King George in 2015 and I you guys have heard me say before the high school um population at the high school when I started in 2015 was 1,234 students because it was one two three four when I started and it's 1511 now. So, you know, we're up almost an extra class of students. >> Yeah, that's my point. I think we need to just look farther than just seven years. I don't think seven
028years is a good indication when we're doing these kinds of things. >> And I think it's important to know that I don't think we're saying we don't need a school uh in the future. Um in in terms of an elementary school, we most I I think we most certainly will. >> Um I I think uh if you're looking at numbers right now, our our high school is over is our only the only school currently that's over capacity right now. That's where the vote would building would come into >> the the vote would recreate it more for the high school. >> Okay. Um let's give someone else a chance to ask questions. Mrs. Cleveland, >> I have a question about um PTOAC Elementary School and they have those um trailers outside. So when the school gets
029over capacity, do they get the trailers outside? Is that how that works or >> No, right now they're actually using that as part of their capacity. So, Atomic Elementary School's uh the only one using modulars. King George Elementary School has trailers outside. They're not used for instruction. >> They're going to be taken out. >> Yeah, they're they're going to be taken out. Uh PTOAC Elementary School, we just put the new modular in. They have their entire fifth grade in in the modular. It's very nice. It's it's very nice. >> Um >> PTOAC is a very unique facility. It's it's a building that has had a number of renovations. They have a 50 section, a 70 section, a 90 section. And if you walk through that building, it's it's really like a maze. So, what's confusing
030about that building is that in terms of blueprints, the capacity is 751 students, but it's it doesn't break down that way very easily in that building. It's not like you've got big wide classroom spaces for that 751 students. It's very mazeike. small little spaces that add to the capacity but really don't accommodate well for students. Uh so to answer your question in short, Carrie, Miss Cleveland, right now uh that 751 includes the middle school, includes the uh modular and that's where that building will will likely stay. >> So and I'm just curious about this. So the modulars, this is an acceptable it's fine acceptable um space then. Okay. It's actually very nice. >> Okay. Mrs. Davis, do you have questions? >> Um, guess not yet. Yeah, I think we just need to organize what we're
031trying to agree upon, >> what comes first. I know that we all know that the biggest support we have right now is for the vote building for them to be created, built up, and all that good stuff um from our board and the board of supervisors. But so right now I'm seeing you have vot school and preschool. Those are the three things that we're going to kind of put in on ABC. >> And in terms of vote, do we all agree that the new building would be the best bang for our buck since the renovation is going to cost almost as much? >> What? I I think the new twostory building is the best bang because I mean that other story was only like 7 mil to put that on there. Right. So that's that's
032that's a that's the best bang for the buck there. >> Basically just take out the current and put a new Did that cost estimate include taking out the old building? Do you remember? Because that's not cheap either. >> Oh, it did? Okay. >> I believe it. Yeah, >> I believe that was part of the discussion. I know that we had and I believe it did. >> So, do we want to at least agree that votech will be our number one priority? >> Um, >> I think it's if I can, Madam Chair, >> I was just going to take a vote. >> Oh, what? >> First of all, if votech is everybody's priority and then from there, we'll move forward with which >> priority in terms of the the most immediate priority or overall. >> Correct.
033The most immediate Um, so, >> so what you're looking at there is again that when we asked RA to go back to the drawing board and and give us some other options, >> they they provided four additional options and they go from >> basically the existing footprint to expanding uh the footprint to be a little wider on that same property. And then the one you're looking at there is uh what Mr. Frank was referring to that's the double story and you can see how slide down just a little bit Miss Higgins and you'll see on the left hand side how that double story is added to that building on the if you're looking from Route Three at that building. The left hand side of that building is more like classrooms. Uh and the right hand
034side of that building right now is like uh bays like um auto body classrooms and and those type of uh uh classroom spaces. So on the left hand side you would you would double your classroom and lab space with two two stories and on the right hand side you have your large high bay um you know auto body shop area kind of classrooms >> and it's 85,000 for the demolition >> 85,000 for include site demolition regrading temporary erosion control m >> that's included in the 199 or 19 >> well this one is under >> says 157 for demolition But it is included that which is was my question. So um >> might be looking at one of the first this is the very last option. >> This is the one that has the two stories.
035>> I am looking at the last thing. Doesn't look like that though. >> Didn't Didn't you didn't you go back to them after we discussed this and they did an update and this is the update. >> This is the update. I think that >> you remember they came and presented at our schoolboard meeting and then we said we'd like to see some other options and then this is what they came back with a few days later. >> You may have the first one, Miss Davis. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, back to the the prioritization. So, we do we have the vote, we have a new elementary school, and then the preschool. And I do agree that perhaps we could combine preschool and elementary, but that that's something that we have to talk about. But in
036terms of immediate priorities, would you which would yours be Mr. Frank? >> Right now would be the Votech building >> and which option? >> Uh twotory. >> Okay, Mr. Bush. >> I think one thing is very important in this and that is the I would also vote for that. However, it's only contingent on the idea that that would be easier and more palatable. That's reason it would be my first option is because it's more palatable. If I ask for the best option, I would not vote for that. If I asked for the most palatable palatable first option, definitely the vote deck, two stories, brand new building, but that's because it's the most palatable. I think overall we need the full school. But this that one I think we could pass through pretty easy with the
037board of supervisors. >> Okay, Mrs. Cleveland, >> I' I I would like I would like Dr. Boyd to tell us what he thinks is like his number one choice. >> I think I already know the answer, but go ahead. >> I I think given, you know, the changing environment and where we are currently right now, uh I I agree with with both gentlemen. I think right now where we are, um I I don't talk to a single person in our community right now anywhere that doesn't agree that we need to improve our vocational offerings in King George County. If you take a look around us since I've been here and really since that building has closed in 2009, that vocational building, King George County has been on a vocational island. Uh we have Northern Neck
038Technical Center to the east of us covering all of all of the Northern X schools and it's a very good and successful vocational program. Spennsylvania has Spennsylvania Technical Center, very high techch, very established program. Caroline has their own program. Stafford has an academy program. Fredericksburg is just in the process of building their own vocational center as well. So, we're really in a in a position right now where it's a disservice to our students to not provide those opportunities. That coupled with the challenges we have with capacity, particularly at the high school level, um depending on how many programs we could put into that new vocational building. And if we go with the double story option, that kind of expands those numbers. But you're talking about a couple hundred students that we could alleviate from the
039current high school and provide a little extra capacity within the existing high school building when our students are getting certifications in that vocational building. So, uh, I'm very much in agreement right now with what I've heard in our community, uh, what I've heard from our board of supervisors and a number of other folks in the community, uh, with with the, uh, vocational being our most pressing need right now and also the double story option because I think that expands programs that would that would compete and rival with the same type of programs and number of programs we see in those surrounding counties that I just mentioned. >> Thank you for asking, Miss Cleveland. Thank you. I'm a little bit torn and I'm going to tell you why. So, I I I agree that the Votech
040building is needed. I absolutely agree that these uh I know that we know when I was in high school there was all these different programs and we don't have those to offer. We know that the programs we do offer are amazing, right? So, we need to be able to offer more. Um I just worry about the class sizes in the elementary school and what I hear about the class sizes and although these numbers are are are supporting the capacity isn't you know where we need to be. I I worry about about that. So >> I guess the question would be if we move forward with the vote building, how much further down the line would it be before we could begin then knocking on the door for a new elementary school? Do we even have
041any idea? >> So that that's a good question and I don't know that any of us in this room could answer it. I I think there's a lot at play in our community right now. Obviously, our board of supervisors with the structure that's set up in King George County is is going to decide what and when in terms of facilities uh are are we able to afford? I know there's a lot of business ventures and things that could help uh improve >> improve that timeline >> that are coming. >> Oh, yeah. So, so all of that sounds promising and good and I think from the impression I get, the board of supervisors is very interested and and understands that we have needs in the school division and and and helping to to rectify those. Um,
042Miss Cleveland, I I I understand what you're saying about capacity and and classroom size. Um, right now we're in a good place on the elementary side. I think that the building that has the most pressing need right now is King George Elementary School because we have placed the preschool there which is 120 students. So, I don't want to get too far down the road on this conversation, but the idea of um putting our preschool at our elementary schools is not a bad conversation to have uh because it does a couple things. it um alleviates the capacity issue we have at our elementary school that's most pressing right now. And I can tell you after doing it one year, I've spoken to some of our elementary school teachers uh and and our our preschool director, those
043students that started preschool at King George Elementary School last year and are now kindergarteners at King George Elementary School are doing wonderfully because they stepped into that building a year before their peers. They know that building, they feel comfortable in that building, uh, and they're able to move forward with academics because all of those things that we take for granted that they have to learn to be a student in that building were were was accomplished in preschool for them because that's their school, King George Elementary School. So, that's a very powerful point and a very powerful um thing to consider when we talk about our preschool kids being at their base school, being at PTOIC, and being at Sealston. What that also means though is that, you know, it's not necessary that, you know, we
044have 120 preschool students right now. We have a preschool staff. It's not I haven't crunched these numbers, but I it's not likely that it's going to divide evenly. It'll it'll create some additional staffing needs is what I'm trying to say in short. That if we divide our preschool up, we will have a need for some additional staffing positions to cover that additional need. Also right now um I talked a little bit about PTOAC and and really even Sealston to a certain level. Uh those are tight those are tight buildings. I I described PTOAC. We have capacity room at PTOIC but we don't have whole classrooms that we could dedicate to our preschool program. Um so trying to work out some of those logistics in terms of space at Sealston and PTOIC could be a challenge.
045So, I'm just trying to discuss some of those pros and cons when it comes to um preschool and capacity on our elementary level. >> Can I say something regards to that? Um when I was first in education and gathering all this information in the early 70s, um there was where we are with preschool is where most of the nation was with kindergarten. Most of the schools did not require kindergarten. Those schools that were doing kindergarten when it was in support of what Mr. Frank is saying those schools that had kindergarten in and many were doing kindergarten outside of the whole public system and some public education systems in some states were doing it in a whole building like we did with the preschool. Those that did it in individual buildings the statistics I was just
046starting to try to look it up the statistics that did that when they had the kindergarten in the same building where they went to the first grade the the kids just did so much better. And I believe it's the same kind of thing that would happen with a preschool. So, I'd absolutely I know it might cost more money, but I think our kids would probably fare better academically if we had a preschool in each one of the elementary schools based on the what happened with kindergarten back 60 years ago. >> Mrs. Davis, >> I am for the vote and for whichever way that I don't care how it's built necessarily, but I think that should be our first step to alleviate what's happening right now. But there are more developments being built. Big ones. Your
047ridge is coming. It's going to be built fast. Probably not have water, but it'll be built fast. Um, which brings more families in and more children and things like that. So, I'm not too comfortable on those numbers being that way. But I think right now is that we have the support from the community from board of supervisors from our board to do this wonderful option opportunity for our students and that's it does alleviate it's not just making our county look great and wonderful and having all these options but it does alleviate some of the pain we're feeling right now immediately. Prote first and then I love the that we're talking about putting preschools at every school and yeah, we're going to need more staff, but I is it hard to find? I don't know. No,
048it's I don't think it's hard to find. Um, it may be. I I'm not saying that, but I I think the cost is is something we're going to have to consider when we get into the budget process. And and we can work on potentially a proposal and what that looks like in terms of staffing. Uh, but that'll be a little further closer to the budget season that we can consider that. Now, another thing Mr. Frank brought up is the um possibility of of adding another grade level to the middle school. Um, I don't know what everybody's thoughts are on that. Middle school right now is, you know, in terms of numbers, uh, has has the most capacity, you know, the most space uh, that we could occupy. So, um, you know, that's also a consideration.
049Uh, and again, the these are kind of short-term fixes in the thinking. >> Yeah. In the long term, we're going to need more square footage. We're going to need >> I think when we go to the board of supervisors and we're like, well, this could fix. I think we need to stay out of the short terms right now and just stick with what we want to do long term. >> This is what we want. This is what we're going to have to need. And I think it makes everything mumbo jumbo sounding like we don't know what we really need when we start trying to do short-term fixes. So, let me ask you a question. I know the middle school and the high school, well, the high school specifically was built to add on to or
050any of the other elementary schools have that option. I think Sealston does. >> I think Sealston was and I think King George Middle School was. >> I was wondering if we could add on to our current elementary schools instead of building a new one. But of course, that means add on to all of them, which >> or Yeah. one at a time. >> Yeah. or what about >> or move up to >> like we have preschool at each school. >> Move up to move to the I mean fifth grade. >> I think the I don't think that's a bad idea, but I think that putting fifth graders, eighth graders may not go too well with the community, >> but it's it it's could be a temporary fix though. >> We've got from now until December
051to figure, >> right? What about modulars? How much are those and what's the long-term life on those? It's most school divisions choose that as a as a last option. Um, and really what happens there is you get into a situation where it's too late and and you're you're having to come up with a plan quickly. Usually modulars are kind of band-aid things and and we'd like to stay, you know, stay away from that if we can and plan far enough in advance that we can not have to have the modular conversation because the one the one at PTOIC is very nice right now and it's it it was um a good purchase and it and it it was a nice modular but I >> your life. >> Yeah, I can tell you it's not like
052a building. I mean, we're talking about the the first part of PTOIC was built in the 50s and we're still using it. Modulars don't have that type of lifespan on it. Can some research as we were talking I think Welen Cooper has done several studies about Virginia and basically just this is the one for Virginia. They're projecting a I hate to say this. I know they are projecting a continuous decline in Virginia especially even in our area until 2031. In 2031 they Weldon Cooper projects that then there'll be a significant increase beginning in 2031. I hate to say that >> there that uh it also talks about COVID and >> there was something else that this is just one that the projections it says while federal projections indicate a significant decline by 2031 more recent
053projections such as those from UVA Weldon Cooper Center show a continued downward trend with some reports as from late 2024 suggesting potential shortfalls. Anyway, they're saying weldon Cooper that basically the whole state of Virginia with some very exceptions which we're not one of them in this area that it's a general decline but in 20 to 31 and we do need to think that's six years and it's not that long. >> No, >> is we are going to have this and it takes three years or so. I just I kind of hated to say this, but it also lends credibility to saying maybe to do this this um right we need right now for the high school for the um the votech center and >> that's just and welding Cooper's one but Weldon Cooper is a
054very powerful you'll see other ones that have Stafford, Spotsy, Fredericksburg, King George as a growth rate that's that's going up. Um >> it was until 2024. Now they're saying is is well even Weldon Cooper was saying in our area was going to do this but now all of a sudden is within the last year they said no they were wrong. >> Yeah. So a lot to think about a lot to consider but I I do think right now with our current climate in our community uh and the current needs we have particularly on our secondary level. I I think I think we would get I think it's lowhanging fruit. I think right now it's it's an opportunity to really make a lot of positive impact for for a relative, you know, relatively less money than
055what we were considering with the elementary model. >> So, Mrs. Cleveland, you um didn't answer the question. Did you say vote or are you still uh I'm listening? >> Okay. So, um do we have any idea of how much the equipment in like do we have any estimate at all? because we're talking about the cost of the building, but now we have all the equipment to go with it, too. >> We don't even know what programs we want yet. >> Yeah. Well, we haven't >> This is all the stuff we need to talk about. >> Yeah. And that won't happen tonight, probably. >> No. And really, when we the If you go back and take a look at the original feasibility study, we were considering a one-story option. So that was at the time like
056five programs. Culinary was one of them which is by all estimates one of the most expensive. Some of the other considerations were programs that were multi-purpose space that uh things that could evolve over time and not be as expensive in terms of equipment on the front end. That's a consideration. Uh we've also explored and I don't want to steal anybody's thunder, but uh Miss Reno is going to come to us at our next schoolboard meeting. We're looking at some partnerships and some things that we can do even in the near future in terms of partnering with um organizations that are interested in in in also supporting vocational programs. uh this that's a very common thing, you know, when you when you're starting particular vocational programs, seeing if you can find uh industries that are coming
057into King George, which we know there are, uh and seeing if they're interested in supporting some vocational programs that again train high school students to have workplace ready skills to go back into their workforce and contribute in King George County. So, we're looking at all those options right now, but again, we haven't looked at those in terms of really kind of doubling the number of programs with the twotory option. That's something we can do and that's something that our RMM has been very helpful in terms of working with us on uh figuring out options on how to move forward and we can set up more tours uh if you guys are interested in that as well and going to see some other programs and what they have. So, I think we have a consensus minus
058one about the Votech um being a number one priority. >> Well, it's not I'm not I'm I'm in >> I just wanted more information. >> Um but I think that what Mr. Frank said about a 10-year plan is a good idea, especially when we're going to go the whole purpose of this meeting is to then for us to have our 2 by twos with the board of supervisors and socialize our idea. So when we tell them this is what our priority is, we we also have to say however our numbers are such that we're going to need we we can't wait 10 years for another building. So um >> in 2031 I'm reading even more from other areas besides Welvin Cooper and boy everything is showing 2030 be be ready. It's going to skyrocket and
059if we're not ready that could be really big. We'll need an immediate plan for Votech, but then I would say within two years, we're going to have to turn around and begin. Right. Well, I mean, we have to plan now so that in two years we can move forward with the plan, I think. >> Yeah, I agree. >> Um, >> in a year >> with a new elementary school or the vote. Oh, yes. I'm talking about Yeah, >> I think that's in our two by >> We don't have to wait a year. I think our conversations coming out of this meeting with with the board of supervisors should be that you know we've discussed and we think moving forward for a number of reasons we've all discussed I won't recap them but moving forward with
060the vocational building as soon as we can is ideal. >> Yeah. >> So the the idea of having a separate preschool from what I'm hearing is probably just a past idea. we should put it in. I I agree completely because I've I've read those reports and studies as well and of course the kids are more comfortable. >> I definitely would have liked to have a preschool >> right in each right that's what I mean instead of a separate building >> or somebody start you know start that five years from now. I mean I still want every four year old in the county to go to preschool. >> I know >> you know not just 118 of >> every I agree. >> I I think that would be exceptional. I I think um it's very it's
061expensive. That's that's the challenge of it is, you know, we don't get any state funding for the prek outside of Head Start and all those other things. It just becomes uh very expensive, but the impact is amazing. I mean, if you look at the research, uh that that, you know, is one of the most impactful things you can do. And really I I think after you know anecdotally talking to our King George Elementary School staff and the one year we had I think having them in their base schools is also very impactful and and very beneficial. So >> is it allowable to charge a nominal tuition for those for preschool within the public school or could we not do that? >> You can charge tuition. >> I mean because people pay for >> private preschool
062now. I'm sure we could have it cheaper than that. >> The thought. >> Um, and I know it's hard to get into preschool. >> Oh, you know, back in the 20s when Ed was going to school, >> they charged they charged $25 for elementary and like 88 for high school in King George County. >> So, we used to charge. I was just thinking, you know, a nominal fee to help. But anyway, that's down the road. So, for now, our priority would be Votech. So, that's what we would um verbalize with our >> twotory vote. I'm sure we're >> right. I don't think we need to tell them which one we choose. I just think we need to tell them we choose vocational. Am I wrong? >> Well, no. I was going to ask you if
063you want me to also reach out to RMM and see if they can expand this offer us and and give us some more like they did with the first feasibility study. >> How much is it going to cost though? Everything we asked them to do costs us money and cha-ching >> potentially. I I'll see um where they are with they've been very very forthcoming and helpful. I mean the they're very interested in this project as well. I think >> but I think but I think what's important is the more armed we are with information when we make this presentation to the public and the board of supervisors the better it'll be. Eye, I think that when we talk to them, we need to tell them that it's a two-story building because we're talking $9 million
064that's there. And you know, >> uh, >> I mean, we could show them all the estimates that, you know, what that we have because they're not that the twotory building is not that much more >> for less than 20 million. We're getting a twostory building, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Well, the rest of the money is going to be spent on the equipment and we do need to talk about programs as well. programs. >> If we show them the estimates though, we have to tell them which one we pick and then we can >> agree. I agree. >> Or just show them the one we pick. >> I think we need to be specific. I mean, just right now picture sitting in front of TC what he's gonna say. >> That's exactly right. That's that's
065why I said >> say, "Oh, you don't know which one you want." >> So I No, I don't think >> coming before us and you don't even know. >> No, I don't think we tell them show them all our options. We show them the one we picked. >> Yeah. >> Not all three because we picked the two stories. estimates. >> Madam Chair, also in reference to estimates, I can imagine that the board of supervisors is going to ask about bids. >> Yeah, >> because they're not going to settle on one. >> Do we need to do that or do they do that? >> So, right now, this is just a feasibility study. We would we would create an RFP if we decide to move forward with that and then we would go through the bid
066process. >> And that that's not a firm number right there. That's a estimate based on what they believe we want. What do we think about going through an RFP with all this if this is true? >> That would be through that would be through the board of supervisors and that's that would be after we decide that we're we're >> that would be our recommendation to them. Yes. Okay. >> Are we allowed to though by state law? >> No. Well, not without them. >> Not here. I mean in some in some localities in Virginia the school board does that. Not in King George. >> Does what? >> Does the RFP process? Does does all >> the bidding process. So >> this doesn't count right now. What do you mean doesn't count? >> Like I know that
067the board of supervisors when they get the first bid and then they get a feasibility study like their state code or something that they can't compare studies and pick one. They have to >> it's a sealed bid process. So that's totally different from this. This is just a cost estimate. Uh it's a feasibility study. They're trying to give us an idea of what it would cost to consider these options. uh if we and if we're going to the board of supervisors, we can say that this is the cost estimate, but we we truly don't know that. But but the experts that we've hired are telling us that we they believe that to be the case based on buildings they've built and other things that they're doing currently. >> They can't do anything more than feasibility.
068They can't give us a quote without going through an RFP. >> Yeah, they won't give us a quote yet. They'll I think they might they'll definitely >> bid on it. >> They'll definitely And again, that'll be all a sealed build bid process and >> Okay. you know, that'll follow >> especially the one that's giving us the feasibility study. They'll probably be closest to their feasibility study when they quote when they give the sealed quote. That's just a normal thing. >> Yeah. >> Dr. Boyd, I think we've said that we're going to go with the twotory building uh for the Btech, but what are we going to do? And I do you still I mean does a 10-year plan sound good for everybody to present to the board of supervisors >> along with along with this?
069Yes. This this is part of a 10-year plan. >> Well, I say that we give them that during budget season. Yes. But before that, we talk to them about our immediate, you know, what we what we plan on spending money on first. Like so before that meeting, we have these conversations with them at the 2 by twos so that they're not blindsided when we hand them our 10-year plan. >> Is that what I'm >> Yeah. And and I I think what we're talking about in a 10-year plan is kind of updating. It's it's really kind of part of the CIP process and updating the projects that we're requesting through CIP, which is, you know, if you remember, it might have been two years ago now. We came out with the 5, 10, 15year document that
070we need to update online, but that ties back into our CIP. I think it all is going to go through that CIP process, which now through the board of supervisors runs parallel with the budget season. Uh, so we'll make sure that we have that ready to go and and understanding and hearing you guys, I think this is a good conversation and we need to continue to flesh it out. But immediately in that 10-year plan, we're talking about we're going two by two. We're going to joint meetings believing that our option is vocational center immediately. Uh and then from there moving forward we're talking about the addition of a fourth elementary school or or I I think continuing that part of the conversation would be helpful to me >> in the meantime to to lessen the
071burden on the elementary schools. If we move the fifth grade to the middle school, that gives 346 more seats for the three elementary schools. I mean, does everybody are I mean, is that a good plan? Is is everybody in agreement with that? I mean, what will the public what will the parents think about, you know, the fifth graders going to the middle school? This is we have I mean, but that's an option of >> I think we We save that if we like right now we're okay with capacity like we're we're we're getting to the point where we're not and numbers are down a little bit. We save that option if in case we have to do it right. Um but we don't make that an immediate plan. That's what I think. But if we
072bring the preschools to each elementary school, we're going to have to do that because they ain't going to have to because I mean like Krie said they're >> right. >> Elementary schools are full right now. >> But we have to come up with that's part of our plan. When are we going to do that? Because we can't do it right away because we're it's going to cost more money. >> We can't. >> So let us do this. Let us take a look at what it would mean to take I really want to bring the preschool into this conversation and and not shock them with too much of this. They were very invested in this conversation before in terms of um all all that we discussed a new a new uh preschool separating the schools and
073all those things. So, let me come back to the board with what that would look like in terms of staffing and space needs at Sealston and PTOAC Elementary School. That's going to drive this discussion about the fifth grade. Uh to your point, I think if you're considering numbers wise and looking at our our it makes total sense in terms of numbers, I can tell you that when we moved the sixth grade to the middle school, uh there was a lot of parents with some feelings about that. >> Sure. >> And so now we're talking about a year younger grade level fifth graders that are going to be acclimated in with your, you know, your eighth grade students. And that's that's a deep conversation that we probably educationally >> very serious. >> I think space-wise it
074obviously makes sense, but educationally and I don't think so. >> And socially, I don't think so. >> So something else that we will be asked because somebody mentioned Mr. Collins, what are we going to do with schoolboard office building? Like what are we this building and this building? Like they're going to want to know what are what are our plans for these buildings? Right. >> Okay. One day at a time, >> right? I mean, you're right. But we will be asked that question. >> And I would say right, and this is just me. I would say right that right now we leave it the way it is for the next few years. Not only because you know we have to have but you've got all those computers and stuff in there too. servers have cost
075a fortune to move all that. >> I I think it's a conversation. I've actually had some very good conversations with Mr. Smallman about it and I think um it's going to be driven from from the board of supervisors as well. Um if you were to ask me alone in a bubble if if you know I think our needs at the school board office are well below the needs of the students in this community. Right. So, if we're talking vocational center, preschool, elementary school, all of that comes well above this. But I also see this conversation with that property and that building being driven by the board of supervisors as well. Um, so I I think it's a conversation that we can have. uh I certainly don't want it to be prioritized above any of the
076needs that we've cited for our students, but if it's something that's mutually agree agreed upon in terms of where we go as a schoolboard office and what the county has in in in you know in mind for that property. I think it's a conversation that would benefit both the school board and the board of supervisors moving forward. So, initially we talked about a fourth elementary school on the property where the middle school was just torn down and that's still a consideration but maybe not a need at this time. So remember that too. That was our initial >> Yeah, we're supposed to have a one, two, three. So we have vote. That's number two. >> I think number two right now is for you guys. You guys are asking me to figure out what it would
077mean for preschool to move to the bay schools, right? But that's that's really a lever that we would pull within the school division. That's not a request from the board of supervisors. Um I I don't want to say number two. I I think this conversation about the schoolboard office is one that should probably be had because I think they're very interested in having it as well. Uh but again, it does not take priority over anything. But keep it in the back of your mind that I I think there's some considerations with >> said it well. They're gonna of that because they want that property. >> Well, and I and I think they've got some and I think we fit well into, you know, the county in terms of >> certain certain considerations moving forward. I've
078already given Mr. Smallnik uh all of our spatial needs in terms of uh office space, conference room space, everything that we need in terms of a schoolboard building. he requested that from us prior to his last meeting. So, so there it is a consideration and they're working through some things right now. If you get back to the school conversation, I think number two is is I'll I'll work through the um preschool questions that we have. Uh but but from there, I I think in a second, excuse me, a fourth elementary school is is >> probably what we need to consider as in terms of number two. Uh, I think on that property in my mind is still a very very good place. Um, it really provides it it it in King George County for us
079to put a fourth elementary school in, we would have to borrow from each attendance zone. Some students from PTOIC, some from King George L, some from Sealston. The location of that property lends itself well to carving an attendance zone right out of the middle of the community. Um, >> it's still it it borrow it can pull some from PTOAC as well because PTOAC is is um >> is is our neighborhood. It's it's it's almost immediately right next to to where that property is. Uh it it also I I really think that inner inter in interampus traffic pattern uh where we get all of the buses off of the that route 3 205 inter 206 intersection right there uh is also a very important conversation to have. I think that's a it's very coste effective to
080put that traffic pattern in and one that I think would benefit the community very well. >> Building a fourth elementary will solve the preschool problem. >> Yes. I mean, I I don't I don't It's kind of like that to me is a higher priority because again, we'll change the the districts, the division of where people go, but then you'll open up rooms and population for the preschool to be at every elementary, which is absolutely, I think, what all of us would say is a positive. And and I think you know you said earlier I think it's important to have this conversation here this evening but we we're also very concise when we go talk to the board of supervisors about what we think we need to do moving forward. And the way that I've kind
081of the analogy I have in my head is that there's three levels of of of levers that we can pull to address our capacity issues. It's building level levers right now uh to address capacity. It's division level, which is what we're talking about here in terms of moving the preschool to base schools, moving grade levels within the division. And then there's the ones that I think we need to be concise and prepared to deliver to the board of supervisors. And that's community. That that's the big things. That's the vocational center. That's the fourth elementary school. on the building level right now. I can tell you that as capacity expands, uh, what they're having to do is, um, take some of the diversity out of our program of studies, for example. So, when you have more
082students and you're over capacity, you have to take some of the electives that you offer out of your program of studies so that you can have enough English teachers just to teach the number of English sections that you have to provide. So like a building level lever for capacity is shrinking down the the program of study. Not a good option, but that's what happens sometimes. Uh on our level, what we're talking about is shifting grade levels. Uh so so all of those things we can have those conversations here this evening but I think to your point what you said earlier being concise and and not muddying the water for the board of supervisors when we go to them and we're talking about county type of things that involve the board of supervisors. What we need
083to concisely say we need in terms of programming moving forward is number one vocational vocational center, number two the uh elementary school >> and with that new elementary school we will have preschool in each school and we will have you know um have smaller class sizes and be able to have more diversity etc. So all the con all the pros of having the fourth and so we will talk maybe three years down the road like if they're asking for a time would you say three years is a good time frame and in that three years we'll have a better idea of population and growth too. >> Well it's gonna yeah and I think again looking at Welen Cooper because there's they've already done a lot of research for Virginia. >> Yeah. >> And um but
084it's definitely it's going to continue to go down. It could look three years. They're going to We just have to be careful because then we're still going to be down here. >> But but we can't but we can't hardly start talking about in 2028 when all of a sudden in 2031 all of a sudden we're going up by 10 to 20%. Which is what they're projecting might happen. Also, I would like us to kind of dismiss totally this concept of the fifth grade going to middle school. I know we talked about it here, but boy, the research is hu it's horrible. So I appreciate because I agree there's some advantages >> numbers wise it looks educationally socially I mean I was just looking at the research it's terrible. Well, I had mentioned if we built
085the fourth elementary school, putting sixth grade back in elementary, which could then alleviate, but then we have the program the program issue if we move 9th graders if we have like a a secondary school, I think it's called with seventh, 8th, and n then we have the program issues, you know, like for instance ROTC. So, >> right, even the dual enrollment that ninth graders would want to take. go that direction. I agree, but let's not go this other direction. >> I Well, we can't really make any of those decisions tonight anyway. We'll have to wait and see where we, you know, but >> I just meant academically. I think we can decide. Let's not even talk about that anymore. >> So, Mrs. Davis, Mrs. Cleveland, do you guys have anything else to add? >> I
086guess Go ahead. Well, I just like where we're heading. one votech to elementary school and then the three would be adding preschools to all the elementary schools. But >> yes, >> as long as we go to them with knowing what we want and have so we're going to be questioned concisely no matter what you hand them paperwise by certain ones especially. So I just want to make sure that we have all we need. >> Would you like me to reach back out to RMM now and see or or would you prefer I wait on that? So we're doing the twotory votech building. >> Yes, the desire. >> What do you need from RRM for that? >> So I'd like to get to the level of specificity that they provided with the initial feasibility study for
087the one-story facility. We we got into >> kind of gave us a quick one >> just that was a quick, you know, 20 24 48 hours. You can do a twotory, you can do. But with the first feasibility study, we talked about programs and we got into the demographic needs and and the upcoming um locations that are going to be expanding in our community. We got real deep into >> So, they can use that to add to this though, like they already have that information. >> Okay. Well, that cost >> I don't know yet, but I can I can >> Do you have the money? No, we we don't have the money right now um in the budget for but you know >> they really want it. >> We we'll hopefully work our way towards
088uh fund balance conversations again with the board of supervisors. So um this first one around remember the cost estimate was for the first feasibility study >> 60 remember that >> they gave us yeah it was somewhere in that >> one of them off the top of my head. Well, the first preschool one was I think >> maybe that's the one I'm thinking one over 60. >> Uh, nonetheless, I it looks like our fund balance will be substantially more than that. So, as long as we keep that relationship with our board of supervisors to provide the fund balance, um, if additional costs are required, then that would be the the source of funds I would probably look at for that. >> Okay, Mrs. Cleveland. >> I mean, the only thing that I wanted to add was
089based on a discussion that's sort of relevant, but not really. Um, and that is when you were talking about the preschool. And I've heard a lot of feedback from teachers where these students um in kindergarten and first grade are really behind and like they can't tie their shoes, they can't uh open their juice box. it's it's really um difficult for them to work with the children and so if there's any way that we can expand that preschool I would be completely on board in doing that and I absolutely encourage the board to think about that. >> Oh I'm I'm I I don't think we any of us disagree. That's why I was asking if we could charge tuition even you know because it's >> at some at some point if we had the capacity >>
090we would have to build another >> think about >> right totally agree >> if you look at the research it is one of the most impactful things for for K12 education is if you can if you can provide >> I mean we had the high school principal say right he can tell even in high school, the kids who went to preschool and the kids who didn't, >> right? >> A huge difference. >> It's so funny hearing this because this was the exact conversation in the 70s with >> kindergarten. Same thing. They couldn't tie their shoes in first grade. We need to have kindergarten. >> And now that you don't have preschool, >> you know, now that every kid doesn't go to preschool and all you lose the first six weeks, two months, you're helping kids
091and open. >> That's the point. And the other thing that's happened is the expectation of kindergarten now is what first grade was 10, 20 years ago. They're reading on the kindergarten level, which they weren't doing. >> Yeah. >> Just so the public knows, this isn't a lot of this is not kids that get to stay home with their moms and learn. These are kids that have to go to daycare because there's no preschool around here, which I have had to be a part of that sometimes if you don't have money or you're paying money in daycare anyway. But I'm just saying it's not to homeschool kids. >> And most of the preschools are half days. So >> they are. Yeah. >> If people work, how are you going to get your kid to and from
092preschool and play for daycare? Okay. So on that note, we have our priorities. Um we know what we have to go and and say to the board. So the next thing we need to do, which I'll coordinate, is is start talking, you know, the two by twos and arranging those meetings. But I'm going to reach out to all of y'all for help. Um, I had initially thought that you could meet with your partner, you know, your district partner, whatever. If that works, great. If it doesn't, whatever. And Dr. Boyd, do you want to be included in those meetings? >> I'd be happy to do whatever the board needs. >> Okay. Um, >> well, even if it's a one by one, talking with your constituent partner and board of supervisors can be valuable, >> right? Just
093we we I feel like the more we talk to them about and explain all the things that we're talking about tonight, you know, um, do you agree? >> Yeah. The only thing I can't stand about the one-on- ones is that we all hear different things and then we come and it's just like, "Oh my god." Okay. No, I didn't say that. Yes, you did. So, how can we make that more efficient to where we're not spreading? >> That Well, that's why the 2 by twos, I think, are more advantageous because then two people hear the same thing versus, you know, just if it's a one-on-one, you know. >> Yeah. So, I'm probably not going to meet with them oneonone. If they happen to come to me or I see them, I might share. But I
094just feel like sometimes it's a waste of breath because we have done it so much and it feels like we're repeating ourselves sometimes or we don't even know what we're saying. >> Well, I do I think we should appreciate the fact that the dynamic has changed a little bit too. >> True. >> I do think that um there's a good appetite right now with the board >> relationship has been say relationship's important. I agree with you, Colleen, but relationship is is key. I know Kathy Bender and I have a great relationship and it's very easy for me to talk with her. But you're right, two by two is better than one by one. And if we can do three by three, it would be >> it also eliminates uh you know having to repeat to
095everybody. Whereas if two of you meet then you can tell the other you know like it not one person telling five people you know so it eliminates that too. >> Maybe if you or somebody wants to maybe put something out and send it to all five of the board to present. I don't know. So they're all getting the same information. I just feel like it's telephone sometimes. It's important to maybe I'm not saying you shouldn't conver but how can we make it efficient so we're not you're all not hearing different things. >> I I think we stick to what we've prioritized. I >> mean we can I can craft an email and send it to each of you to to help >> this is what we this is what we talked about. Yeah. >> If
096you'd like to discuss we're available you know to meet. How about that? And I think to your concern, um, Miss Davis, is that let's make sure we discuss primarily what we discussed as a group and be careful about going off into our own bunny trails. >> Agree. Agree. >> If we do that and focus on that, even if they're asking questions, say, "Well, I don't know about that, but this is what we're focusing on." >> Yeah. >> Okay, Mr. Frank. No last dimes. Is there anything else we need to talk about? >> No, ma'am. Thank you all. That was very good conversation. going once, going twice. >> You can I say something? Do we want to some of this um Weldon Cooper research they've already done about Virginia, >> do we want to have that
097ready? I mean, it's it's I found it online in just a few minutes or is it just for us to know? >> I don't yet. I don't think yet. Um like I said, I do believe that uh Mr. Davis with the board of supervisors and Mr. Small Nick are working on some of that demographic study, which I I think that would be relevant to to lean on when we get to that point. >> They can Google it. >> That's that's what I just did. You're exactly right. >> Do I have a motion to adjurnn? >> Make a motion to adjurnn. >> Second. All in favor? I. >> We are now adjourned.