001e book of uh excuse me 19 minutes by Jody P Cod that's the sole purpose of this meeting uh this time I'd like to meeting to order Begin by a Moment of Silence after the moment of silence Mr Sigman will um lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance please rise and join me in a moment of silence e members of the board you've received uh the agenda for tonight's meeting uh been advised by Dr Stover that there are no adjustments from uh the central staff so at this time I will entertain a motion uh for to approve the agenda as presented I make the motion that we uh do the agenda as presented motion is on the floor a second and a second any discussion hearing none all members in favor of approving the agenda
002as presented please raise your hand and that is unanimous uh this time I will turn uh the meeting over to our board attorney Miss Crystal Davis to conduct our public hearing excuse me I got it at this time the board will convene a public hearing um signed up may address the board about matters that are on this agenda the only matter on this agenda is the appeal by by Michelle Teague of the decision relating to the book 19 minutes by jod picul um and um we have I think 24 people that have signed up to speak about this book again the the public comments are limited to this book and um and this hearing so um the the way that this will proceed is that I will call your name we have a court reporter
003here um and I will ask that when you come to the podium that you state your name and that you also spell your name and that is for her benefit we discussed that uh prior to um we have lots of different spellings these days and and pronunciations um in addition I would um remind you all that um the board has um experienced um many uh disrespectful comments being made made at board me at board meetings um the board has unanimously determined that it will not tolerate uh disrespectful comments and that we and we ask you not only to limit your public comments to three minutes there will be a timer up there you see in the rightand corner but also uh to be respectful not only to other members in the room but also to
004um speakers and that you not Jer and clap and make noise is um after before or during um another person's speech uh any at any time during this this meeting um the be sure and watch the clock uh anything else that you want to add Mr chairman okay um with that said the first person that is on the um signup sheet is Pastor Dean Hart and if you'll approach and again state your name and spell and then all right my name is Pastor Dean Hart do I need to spell Pastor p a s t o r d a n h a t okay you let me know when we're oh we already had clock already started okay well then I'm just going to go ahe probably uh talk for just a little bit Galatians chapter
0056 verse 7 tells us be not deceived God is Not mocked whatsoever man Seth that shall he also reap and so uh I know what you're going to do you're getting ready to uh to talk to me here but I got to tell you that uh I believe that upfront I just want all of you to know we don't dislike any of you uh as a matter of fact uh my prayer is is that everybody in this room would come to know the Lord as their savior you say well I don't believe that there is a lord well that's fine you don't have to the Bible teaches us that God uh has enlarged hell hell has enlarged itself so that uh those that don't want to believe well that's where they they're going to go
006um I wanted to say that uh here tonight that the result result of a changed life is is that you begin to walk in comments are restricted to this is this pertains to that sir okay well I will if you'll give me an opportunity okay this pertains to that because the results of a changed life and I'll just talk to you directly if you would like the result of a change life is is that you stay away from these books these pornographic books this field that goes and is uh we're all over our schools all over uh our school system and you say and people say all the time and say well we're taking them out or they might say well we're censoring speech or we're uh uh Banning books that is far from it
007and we're misquoted every single time we turn around uh by the news media by you all uh that we have uh stated that we want to ban books and that's not true that is absolutely the last thing that we want to do what we want to do is make sure that we protect the minds of our children our children are a get get access to this field and you all seem to not mind it and I got to tell you uh that that's so uh so uh not surprising as far as that goes but by people that have run as uh Republican and then turned around and uh actually are liberal Democrats but let let me just go ahead and tell you this that what we have here is we have a situ where that
008people use all kinds of statements and you're F and I know you're ready for me to shut up but uh but uh uh what what bothers me so much is the fact that you all uh this board right here not all of you but this board seems to want these books in our public schools and yet we have education that needs to be uh given read write rhythmetic all these things and here's the thing where does that come into play at I know 911 people mentioned 911 and they've talked about that truthfully that's really sad there that that you can only know about the books from 911 again moving forward the purpose of this public hearing is a hearing on the book 19 minutes so your your comments need to pertain to that book or
009they are out moving forward all right it's Betsy Cromer bets y c r o m r thank you you're welcome I'm not sure why we're still here discussing porn and it should not be allowed in the schools why the board would allow 19 minutes um which has porn sexual inappropriate drug use alcohol use um self harm suicide bullying racism in this book and some of you compare this garbage to the Bible I don't get it I want to know if some of this this book is maybe in one of the ebooks is it allowed the students if they have an account can get it without even checking a book out um why are we handing these tools like this book to mimic maybe a school shooting in this we trust you with our children from
010kindergarten and up and we want to know how you confuse them you look for ways to maybe trip them up with books like this you want to control their Destiny which God already has declared to them when you go behind our backs and use this book 19 which should be off the shelf we see how you've been plotting and scheming against us our families and our kids and you're mistaken you're mistaken if you think for one minute we will stand by and let this keep going on we are not going away we are just getting warmed up and let me explain a layman term maybe education is not knowing that Hitler killed six million Jews no education is understanding how millions of ordinary people were brainwashed that it was required to do so This Book
01119 minutes is destroying our children's minds and our hands your hands are covered with their blood it will be your fault one day when one of our children's rape commit suicide act as a school shooter die of an overdose because you are handing them tools the Bible's a tool and into your hands and we ask them to be removed we will continue to stand together like we did on March 5th and be guarded in the full armor of God which will bring us Victory again thank [Applause] you questions of approval or disapproval unless directed by the chair are out of order and the next time it happens I'll clear this meeting of everybody except the speakers signed up we are not here for a shouting match you're here for your input as public comment we
012thank you for that we're the there's muring back here we cannot I can hear clearly all right Michelle before we go on Mr chairman can I ask for a point of clarification from the last speaker I'd like excuse me you don't have to answer the the uh any uh back and forth from the board to speakers will come from the chair the the board member asked uh for a clarification of who compared 19 minutes to the Bible you made that comment she was just wanting that clarification I would like to speak up on that I would like to speak up on that I would like to speak on that if I could no man' why Michelle speak our next speaker let speak you sir sir if you would like to familiarize yourself with our procedures
013for public hearing I invite you to do so but comments from the board per discussion are not in order at this time you just let the guy behind me speak you just let another Mor through you why don't you escort this gentleman out of the [Music] meeting so trying to silence freedom of spee you want me to go to yeah that's all right deputies uh escort them from the building please thank you I'm sorry ma'am it's your turn EXC sure Michelle m i m i c h e l l e Lana Burger l o n a a b r g r thank you for giving me a moment to speak um I know y'all are all serving the positions you serve on because I know and I believe that you do care for the children
014in our community and I thank you for being public servants and serving the book 19 minutes I don't have a lot of time to read but when I heard this book mentioned I read some excerts online to see what everything was about with this book I am one that believes see for yourself what's in there don't just take what you hear see see it for yourself and to be very honest I couldn't finish reading a lot of the excerpts because of the graphic nature that is contained in this book I worked in a grocery store right out of high school to be able to pay for my own College when I worked there they had cataloges magazines and things of all kinds of natures that different people would be interested in there were explicit magazines
015and they were contained in plastic wrap so young eyes couldn't see because we all understand certain things we need to preserve childhood things are going to be known as it comes in life you're only a child for so long children can only handle certain things at certain ages there's been studies done there's plenty of that online I'm sure you all heard of all of that I don't need to get into that but the simple fact that concerns me with this book others of course that are there but with this book in specific Disney couldn't make a movie out of this book and use the language that is in this book nobody that I have heard is asking for a book to be banned nobody's asking for books to be burned or any of that nature
016but simply this book is not appropriate for minors Disney wouldn't make a movie of it using that language because it doesn't fit the wholesome nature that Disney has become known for parents can take a child into the movie theater to see a movie from Disney and they have the hope and the expectation to be able to relax a little bit that they don't have to worry about what's going to be in front of their child with language or certain things that they're just not quite at age to handle yet you can't have the content the language of this book published on the front page of a newspaper it's obscene it's not arguing a thought that should be banned it's not arguing any of that it's just simply what is appropriate for children that's why we
017have our our school to teach them and you don't teach what's in high school to kindergarteners they're not ready you don't want to display certain language and certain graphic nature according to the definition it does contain pornography and and it is a concern and and I believe that y'all do want to do what's right for the kids thank you for that and I do hope that this book is removed it it's it's pretty rough reading you couldn't put it on the radio they bleep certain things in fact they just couldn't air it because of the graphic nature you can't have it on regular television on certain hours that's why they have those hours because they know kids could have a chance to see it so that is what we're asking please have this book removed
018that way it's not in the eyes of the kids thank you very much thank you Miss B my name is Ron Batty r o n b a i t y I want to go back and move up to this book this evening in 45 our forefathers came to the conclusion that somebody or something would fill the children's Minds with some kind of material and they wanted to make sure that the material that the children got in their minds was material that would help mature these people to be outstanding adults so they passed a law in the year 1645 in our nation and it was called the old Satan Deuter law it happened to be one of the first laws passed in this country and in that in that bill they said we want to make
019sure that all of the children know how to read and right so they taught them first of all the alphabet and then when they learned the alphabet they put in their hands a Bible to learn to read out of they said we want their minds filled with the scriptures we want their hearts filled with the scriptures again because somebody or something will control their thought life they never had the understanding that the day would ever Dawn in America when young people would have uh their minds filled with this garbage that's all it is I noticed this afternoon as uh this was downloaded they have this book contains sexual activities sexual nudity profanity derogatory terms violence controversial social and political commentary controversial religious commentary alternate sexualities hate abortion and suicide we said a few minutes ago
020one nation under God I don't know how we can associate the Holiness of God that we talk about here in our pledge and at the same time try to infiltrate the minds of our young people with this kind of material I think it's important that we understand what pornography is what is the definition of pornography it comes from the word pornia it's the depiction of sexually explicit content designed to sexually arouse the reader or the viewer pornia or pornography is a catchall word for any filth or perversion pornia involves looking at explicit content with the intent to derive sexual pleasure or gratification if that's what you're trying to teach the kids here in this school you've missed the mark but that's what it is I don't think any of you could go to the library
021pull this book off the shelf and say to the people around you let's bow our heads while I thank God for this material we're about to read it don't go together thank you Mr batty okay do I need to spell my first my okay meline is m a d e l y n and then bicer is b i s l e r am I good okay hi I'm mine bicer I'm a 17-year-old student St stephens's high school and soon to be graduate who can vote I have spoken before but this book is especially important to me while preparing to speak to you today I listened to Jody CO's story behind 19 minutes on her website she was inspired to write this book by an act of bullying she witnessed in her kindergarten son's classroom anti-bullying
022programs have been prevalent since this Coline school shooting occurred on April 20th 1999 and in fact my honors English four class just participated in one of these programs we started by reading the novel Columbine by Dave colen this novel which shows the signs of School shooters helped educate not only us but the whole school as we participated in say something weak say something weak which is sponsored by the Sandy Hook Foundation encourages people to stand up for others when they see bullying and speak to a trusted adult each group in my class came up with a project that aligns with the views of see something say something weak as Pico was writing her novel she researched Coline by traveling to Littleton Colorado interviewing a deputy sheriff and listening to the basement tapes made by the
023shooters 19 minutes is non novel made to show explicit sex scenes it is a novel made to showcase the effects of bullying upon adolescent Minds this novel proves to teenagers that we can make a difference by standing up for other people and saying something when we see bullying everyone should be an upstander as long as bullying exists Pico has had numerous students contact her to say that her book is the reason they didn't bring a gun to school because they knew they were not the only ones who felt alone and sectioned off mothers if 19 minutes can save the life of one child by showcasing the dangers of bullying and school shootings then why should you even have a thought in your mind about restricting it in our school system school shootings are not limited
024to a certain demographic they can occur anywhere and this book can make a difference thank you so my name is Elizabeth bicer e l i z a b t bicer same as my child Bei s l r and I'm a St Stevens High School parent of two amazing students if I should say um so I'm actually here uh on behalf of the author uh Jody call and um I'm reading a letter that is uh from her to everyone in this room including the board my name is jod PLL I am a bestselling author of more than 25 novels one of which 19 minutes has been challenged by school boards across the us including Kataba North Carolina it is not the first time my books have been challenged nor will it be the last the books
025being banned at school districts in this County tend to fall into three categories those with sexual content those written by bipoc authors those written by lgbtq authors in most school districts where my book has been challenged those doing the challenging have not even read the books that is the case here they have been provided with a list of titles from others in other communities who Express concern for what children are being exposed to make no mistake what children are being exposed to are ideas and lives different from their own which creates compassion and empathy or in some cases children are being exposed to ideas and lives exactly like their own which provides representation and validity and a sense of belonging in other cases kids are given the tools to understand a process a very challenging
026world the books of these lists the books on these lists are not salacious or revolutionary they're just the kind of books that help kids learn to think for themselves which is the point of an educational system and which is also terrifying to a certain small subset of Americans right now this is not the first time historically we have seen bans and challenges to literature because of that we can say with historical accuracy that this is the first page of a fascist Playbook if you want to control the thoughts of a Nation you start by TR controlling what they read for those of you in the audience rolling your eyes consider some of the books most commonly challenged right now were written to Chronicle and explore moments in history where being different LED to systemic discrimination
027we can think of a few right that's my own words the thinking of those who promote book bands and challenges is that by removing these books we can uh we get to rewrite and sanitize history it doesn't work that way instead what we know categorically is that kids who feel marginalized and read books with characters that are like themselves wind up feeling less marginalized kids who have never encountered someone different from them get in get to do so in a safe space of reading a book and it lends uh to understanding it leads to that books Bridge divides between people book bands create them I want to read that again Books thank you I have a quick question for the chair did we not pass did we not pass a while back that people couldn't
028read from other people they had to present for themselves they couldn't read something from someone else [Music] um well she said that she was representing the author I I read something that was given to me from the author so I still can read it I suppose I read it thank you for that point of clarification Mr settle this coming from the same person that they said your daughter learned about 911 for that's ridiculous thank you sir Dr Kimberly Turk k m b e r l y t u r k and I was intending to finish the letter that jod sent for the board um in the inability to finish that letter which was a great letter and was written directly for this board to be heard from the author who could not travel here tonight
029I will instead read tweets that the author has posted online for the public here's a real world experience I had in 2007 when 19 minutes was published yours orig be consistent poliy all right so when she was touring um and the book had been published 10 years ago this book was created was curriculum reading at different high schools high schools were actually reading this book as part of their curriculum at one of these high schools students after she spoke were given an opportunity to ask the author questions one of these young men came up and said I don't have a question but I wanted to let you know that I had a weapon and I had a plan and I was going to shoot this school until I read your book and I chose not
030to do that she said the principal sitting beside her went absolutely pale white another student said that she'd spent her life in a wheelchair and that she thought that no one understood her and reading this book let her know that she was not alone for to read this book has value to Children this book has value in a world where I still practice every year for a school lockdown where I've had to spend time worrying about which children in my classroom might bring a weapon to school because they're angry this book has value for our students thank you very much Josh good evening my name is Josh Nixon J nixo N um I just want to say that um I I did take the time to read this book and I've read all of the
031books um that were recently challenged I a reader and so I wanted to you know find out for myself and me just to follow up on some things that were said I do believe that there's some bitter irony in removing suppressing challenging whatever um word you want to use for a book in which a student feels that the struggles they're facing are things that have to be kept secret and hidden and I think there's some irony in wanting to remove a book that deals with some of those struggles and the result in the book U was death and heartbreak and I'd further like to say that um I've sat through a number of these meetings and I've been profoundly dism at meetings like the one that we're having tonight and I I do believe that
032talking about books and their content is important I'm including 19 minutes but I feel that we're often distracted from the work that we should be doing and making the jobs of Educators more difficult and not adding anything meaningful in discussions about books like the uh like the one tonight to the lives and learning of our students and I'm concerned about the road that we're traveling down when we have meetings about books like this and that they will lead to harm for the students and the families of Kataba County um I hope that I'm wrong but I'm afraid that I'm not thank you my name is Michael mclam m i c h a l MC L MB chair Taylor members of the board here we are again another special meeting at taxpayer or expense to ban
033a book A book that has not been read or understood by the complaintant you can look no further than the incomplete form challenging the work this performance is all for someone's poorly formed opinion I implore you to ask the complaintant if she's read the book in its entirety ask her questions about the small stuff the details that only those who have read the book would know 19 minutes is not pornography it is not in the words of book looks sex sexually explicit nudity or obscene it is not in the curriculum nor is it a tool of wickedness no student teacher parent is forced to read it parents and Guardians have complete and ultimate control over what books their child can access in libraries this control even extends to coursework in the classroom why is this
034not enough every meeting of this board is a display of an agenda at work I think several members of this board have no interest and improving education count the votes against the Dual language immersion program just last month white English-speaking Christian Schools Christian nationalism destroy public education that I think is the agenda three board members endorsed Michelle moo Michelle Morrow for North Carolina superintendent of Public Instruction a candidate with no experience in education none and worse yet one who called my apologies Mr chair Banning books is wrong censoring speech is wrong suppressing ideas is wrong this entire exercise over two years is disgusting and it's wrong thank you F La vaia f f laa v d i e t r i c dric so once again as was said before we are here at dexp
035expense and once again we are treated to the reasons why a book like 19 minutes should be banned because it's accused of being um pornographic of having sexually explicit language it appears that those who want to ban the book know nothing about the Miller test know nothing about the fact that the book has to be Beyond sexual explicit it has to be done for the purpose of titilating and then it could be considered pornography but that's not uh what the speakers here are complaining about they uh apparently have no qualms about about uh coming to you with arguments based exclusively on their beliefs religious beliefs and calling something pornographic which they have not read admittedly or read excerpts or of and speaking of not being able to read what the author of the book has
036said I don't think that people should be allowed to stand up here and parrot what they read on book looks which is exactly what one of the speakers Did reading directly from what that website says the website that is maintained created by the moms for Liberty it floors me that the people who most want this book removed a book that treats with the important theme of bullying and school shooting are the same people who want to delete erase the existence of LGBT kids these are the same people they're the same people who have rallies where they raffle guns AR are 15s so clearly the intent is not to protect children at all besides the fact that it isn't children reading these books it's teenagers children in high school not little children who watch Disney movies
037this is not PG-13 this is a high school book I shouldn't be surprised at the hypocrisy but it's always shocking to to see what people have to say thank you speak just a minute my defense please are you sign up to speak no I just want to defend myself I listen to three minutes of her slander us not anything about the book it's Brenda b r n da SI m o n and I am a retired uh Kataba County educator I've spent 30 years uh most of it in katava County teaching language arts and social studies uh in the book 19 minutes which is being discussed tonight a young person who has been extensively bullied takes a gun into his school and commits a mass shooting 19 minutes is fiction but this same type of
038situation has happened in reality all too often personally I think 19 minutes is an excellent source for us to see what bullying can do and can lead to another tra tragic aspect of bullying is the bullied child taking his or her own life and this does happen uh children who are between the a or about 10% of these children are between the ages of seven and 10 the majority of them are between the ages of 11 and 14 and I'll just read you a couple of 13-year-old girl who wanted to be a lawyer was called ugly and taunted as a loser she took her own life a 13-year-old introverted Louisiana girl who craved friendship was targeted for nearly everything her glasses her braces her clothes her body shape and the list goes on and we
039know that this Bullying happens every single day another aspect of of bullying is or or the children committing suicide is bed parents suing school systems for not adequately protecting their children and in some of these cases parents have been awarded large sums of money into the millions of dollars books are being removed from shelves under the guise of prot protecting children but if we really really are serious about child protection wouldn't our time our money our energy our resources be better used to make sure no child no child in any of our schools is bullied and making sure that bad guys with guns can't get into our schools books don't kill children good evening I'm April Moss a r i l M OSS and I a blood bought believer of the Lord Jesus Christ and
040I'm here on his behalf I'm also here on the behalf of all the children that are represented here in this room tonight I am sad to say that we have a lot of people who are atheists in this room tonight and as a blood-bought believer of the Lord Jesus Christ that really concerns me more than anything um I know that there are Christians at least according to the biographies on the website for the Board of Education um what I see there's Christians that are represented um speak absolutely 19 minutes is pornographic trash it talks about abortions it talks about it describes in explicit de detail sexual things that are happening it describes it takes in vain the name of the Lord Jesus Christ in the same sentence that it calls one of the guys calls
041somebody a effing uh f i don't even say it but you can use your imagination so as Christians on the board I believe that we are being misled I believe that we have been lied to because all the Christians aren't voting against the books that do not represent the Lord Jesus Christ now I'm not your judge we're all guilty of sin but as you can see we have atheists in this room they're going to hell and if we keep these books in the school system our children are headed that way too okay so I am imploring you to please vote your beliefs that you state on your biography we have one person here that is represented that went to the Dallas Theological Seminary we have one person here that is represented that was a bible
042school teacher you cannot represent yourselves as Christians and vote the pornographic trash in here 19 minutes 19 minutes pornographic trash in here Mr Taylor you can't these children fa of the politics I'm sorry but it is you're you've misrepresented us and you threw two preachers out and that disgusted me and it disgusted everybody but these people are going to hell because they are being misrepresented by this board of three people amen hi I'm Peg Heights spelled p g h- Tes the kids in my neighborhood go to Clyde Campbell aren't in St Stevens's High School just a little Tad I'm just going to throw this in here impromptu 40 Years of pastor's wife spent my whole life in the church okay let me talk about 19 minutes I have admired the writing of jod Pico for
043a long long time as an Avid Reader her amazing ability to take a social problem and then swirl a story together that addresses it is really impressive it's entertaining it grasps the reader and it makes the point she has tackled and I've read books about racial divides disability barriers and when jod takes on a topic I can always count on her that her novel is going to challenge me so it's not surprising that 19 minutes calls us all to look deeper into the cause of school shootings this book is a gift to our children it's a written window into the reality that they face every day in our country it's a chance to consider the role that bullying can play in triggering a child is it obscene what's obscene is what our children face every
044time they practice another active shooter drill what's obscene is the level of anxiety and Hyper preparedness that our kids seem Doom to deal with and it makes me sad to think that their access to this book might be limited what are we the adults so afraid of our kids already know what they face they know it but what they need what they desperately need are tools to deal with the world we have handed them and this book is one tool for them don't take it away yes if you could please just silence your phone if you want to video what's going on that is completely acceptable just make sure your phones are silenced thank you yes that would include all of usy Joan e Gardner j o a n e g a r d n
045e r this this is a graph of school shootings it starts up here with Columbine and you can follow this circle and see how school shootings have increased 19 minutes is perhaps the most important book we have covered so far because it is timely and realistic I know my grand grandchild who is in Kaba County Schools could understand and get insight from this book you saw my chart it shows the incidences of school shootings since Coline they have drastically increased what was so effective about this book is how it humanized all the characters and did not have a victim villain simplistic format besides covering the complicated backgrounds and intertwining of the villains and victims it had subplots of teen hierarchy relationships teen romantic relationships which can be abusive as well as in sight as to
046the role adults in positions of authority from parents to school officials having either resolving or ignoring social problems in our schools everyone does not have to be a villain for tragedy to occur ignorance will suffice it was a spot one book for today the perpetrator was followed from early childhood to his demise in the book he was bright sensitive and both a victim and a villain lifelong bullying led him to neoism and violence why do we need this book in Kataba County do you remember a meeting of this board during the 20223 school year when a family mother and father and two boys came to logic complaint that their older Middle School son was being bullied for being black the mother is a school teacher and a children's author the older son was an honor
047student as well as a star football and basketball player for his school why was he bullied was it for being outstanding while being black was it jealousy just plain racism the issue was not resolved and they have pulled that child out of school system shame on us it is our loss every child in air system from middle school up needs to read this book to ban it is to deny reality and represents a failure to address today's acute problems I also I also had there the committee's report which I implore you each to read Kevin Sparks KV n s p a r k s good evening counselor Dr Stover Mr chairman I'm here to speak on 19 minutes and yet I have to object to the very nature of this hearing the hearing is meant
048to be an a hearing on the appeal of the committee on the ruling of the committee on the book 19 minutes as such I applaud it I find the the hearing itself to be strongly biased towards the Viewpoint of the of the Challenger in its very structure you'll be hearing more about that later I assure you the committee ruled quite strongly that this book is not pornography pornography in our land of laws we are a country of laws is defined by the Miller test the committee spoke directly to the nonp pornographic nature of this book if the author had used any less detail the reader would not have realized a character was being sexually assaulted by her boyfriend this scene is in no way erotic or written to arouse someone sexually it is not a
049pornographic book huh if this is a challenge to the committee decision which part of that decision does the Challenger find objectionable pornography is well defined the book is not pornographic the Challenger refur to sexual content is the only matter in their complaint the only two words in the complaint why is the committee's ruling not sufficient in buurt South Carolina a group drawn from the community met to consider a number of books challenged in attempting to be banned from their schools why are we unable to trust in the Integrity of our policy in the Judgment of our own Community as the folks in bufort were able to trust in theirs more recently the Challenger and their friends have indicated that controversial religious commentary and Alternate sexualities are promoted in this book if that is the issue
050then let's discuss that if you have read it then please point out where you find such issues and let's talk about it simply saying I want this book gone should be treated as irrelevant to any serious discussion about education otherwise the argument seems to be that parental Choice actually means one person's choice if we're to remove any book that any person finds objectionable on some grounds why do we have a library at all thank you l y n n d o r f m a n I'm Lyn Dorfman a Kataba County taxpayer a former appstate instructor I have degrees in child development and Library science and I'm a mother just a mom but there's no just about being a parent parenting is perhaps the most important and hardest job I'm glad to see board member
051Teague recovered from her February malady malady and that this board while behind the schedule this board member orchestrated is able to reconvene to deliberate the fate of 19 minutes the delay worked for me it gave me time to read the book what a compelling Story the characters are so real you feel you know them The Good the Bad and the Ugly it's a tough topic but as other speakers have pointed out it is sadly one that is all too topical us gun violence is a Public Health crisis guns are the leading cause of death for our nation's youth according to the US Centers for Disease Control and prevention since the horrific mass shooting at Coline 25 years ago more than 338,000 students have experienced gun violence at us schools 33 38,000 that's twice the population
052of this County this book shines a light on this Public Health crisis and it's all too real and tragic consequences lives ended lives upended schools should be safe places of learning not Killing Fields yet the real power of this book is explaining the why of a school shooting I have never read such a strong depiction of bully bullies and bullying like Matt told Josie in the book there has to be a we and a they and we have to show them we are better than they are isn't that a tale as old as time we and they I'm better than you nanny nanny boo boo after reading 19 minutes my recommendation as just a mom this board should ban bullies not books the next person is Joshua and the last name ends in L I
053think it's all right it's hard to pronounce I know you will let us know how to pronounce it and spell it no problem I'm Joshua holsclaw that is J QA h o l s c l a w 19 minutes is a remarkable novel about the realities of bull bullying school shootings manipulative romantic interests and the complex dynamics of parent child relationships however this book is not appropriate for minors because of several explanatory passages pertaining to sex and sexuality despite their relevance to the overarching message if we were to read aloud these excerpts or some excerpts from the book during a school assembly even in their context the phones in the county office would be ringing off the hook the next day with irate parents because of the obscene nature so why should the school system
054provide students access to such material to take home and read in private there are ways of discussing sexuality and sex including rape without going into detail that the author does regrettably the author crosses that line furthermore this book contains words and activities that even I as a professional in my job can't discuss a significant part of school is molding children and young adults into professionals so they may excel in the workforce if work professionals are restricted from discussing these topics especially to the same degree of detail in the workforce students shouldn't have access to them through a schoolf funded Library the responsibility of the board in making this decision to keep restrict or remove this book from the shelves is to separate fact from feeling and render a verdict based on objective truth the truth
055is that 19 minutes is more suitable for adult audiences and should therefore be removed from our school libraries I will leave you with a quote from the author herself from the book on page 404 it's fascinating really King said because a 20-year-old might be psychologically capable of making an informed decision but a 17-year-old won't be to read this book it requires an informed decision and as the author admitted herself through her character that a young minor cannot make that decision thank you very much name's Clayton Mullis CL l a y t o n mu l l i uh good evening board I want to thank you for your time and on the topic of the book of 19 minutes it is the reality that we face today as a country is what is in this
056book and many people have spoken about that tonight different sides of the aisles different opinions but one thing nobody has mentioned tonight is that doesn't have to be the norm and I think there's a way in life that you can have these conversations differently I'm a generation two generations from the generation that was the greatest Generation That Ever Walked the face of this Earth in my opinion generation of my grandparents this book talks about homosexuality abortion school shootings and again we accept that as reality but that doesn't have to be the case where does it stem from I wouldn't use this book as an example in Sunday school at church to prove that point yes these are difficult topics and I'll be the first tell you I don't think I could handle some of these
057topics how to address them because I don't have that experience but one thing I can tell you is the bigger calls and the bigger tool a bigger tool than this book that ever can be is a parent and so many of our parents in this country today do not step up to the plate to be a parent I come from a family that my parents were divorced out at a young age but my parents were responsible and worked together to educate the three children in our family and they put us first and they understood that not every child has that case in this County and it's sad but we cannot accept the things that are in this book that they are reality and the norm and that's what we have failed to do and that's
058what I'm afraid this book does and it opens up the doors to other things and other agendas and it needs to be focused on education and elevating our education to the best in the world and I thank you for your time thank you so Erin shm e r i n s c u r me ye R so I had a whole other speech prepared but I've kind of thrown it out the window based off of what's been said in here and since it apparently matters I feel compelled to say that I am a Christian to the point where I teach Sunday school at my church I'm on alter Guild and I was just elected to our vestri I am highly involved in my church yet I think this book should stay in our schools for
059multiple multiple reasons I was in Middle School when Coline happened I have grown up in the reality of school shootings while I haven't as a student participated in a lock down drill I have at an Outreach to an elementary school I was in a school library when kindergarteners had to hide from the possible Intruder we went into a closet and I experienced children crying because they were terrified the one thing that helped is that one of those students decided that we were hiding from the Velociraptors that kept these children's Terror at Bay because they'd seen Jurassic Park they knew how to hide from J from Velociraptors in no world should we expect kindergarteners or any of our students to have to hide from a school shooter and 19 minutes shows us exactly how some people
060decide to become School shooters they have experienced such extreme bullying from the time they were in kindergarten all the way up through high school I myself was a victim of bullying through much of school luckily I was blind to a lot of it as it was happening and it's only in looking back that I can see it but based off of how severe my bullying was and especially my bullying at church I could very easily have become a school shooter and that's disturbing luckily I had the experience reading books none of which at that point were like 19 minutes but reading books that made me feel not alone that made me feel represented that gave me hope that all of that Badness wasn't going to stay in our society that that wasn't all I had
061to look forward to so I applaud everyone for wanting to take care of our students but the books that we're talking about banning are not books that are in elementary schools they're generally not even books that are in middle schools these are books that are in high schools part of our job as Educators is to make sure our students are well prepared for life that's teaching Reading Writing arithmetic it's also teaching Civics my little sister didn't know that you had to register to vote she graduated high school six years after I did that is unacceptable we also need to teach the world how it is we can't put on blinders our students aren't going to have them in the real world thank you uh my name's Tim Hathcock T IIM H AI t h c
062o c k i I come here tonight not as your enemy but I do come here to talk about the book 19 minutes as we've already heard what it includes school shootings sexual parts to the book violence but what it really boils down to in 19 minutes is a book it's about our children a book can motivate you to do good it can help you understand your surrounding environment what's going on it can lift you up and make you feel it's go like it's going to get better but then again like the book The Catcher I believe it's the the catcher in the Ry uh it enticed a man to kill another man just simply through reading that book uh it's about our children and we a school board as you make up it's our
063responsibility to make sure that we know where that that dropping off level is G PG r x and it's our responsibility to make sure that we are allowing books that are good quality books to remain in our library but also it's our responsibility to make sure that we don't have books that promote negative things uh the book 19 minutes someone could read that and go in the worst way the worst Direction whereas you might have another person read that book and somehow go the other way but we're basically talking about our generation of children and the world that they're going into it's it's coming apart at a very rapid State any one of you who look on the news at night and see what our world is it's really chaos and it uh it's your
064responsibility our responsibility and as that gentleman said as parents yes I was a dictator to my children if they brought home a book that was full of pornography full of stuff that just negative no good it would it ain't going to stay in my house house uh thank you thank you hello um Teresa Riker's te r s a re e i c h a r d excuse me thank you for allowing us to come speak again tonight um speaking of the book of 19 minutes by jod pacold it is said in 2017 and it's about a mass shooting as we all know at this point um the main characters in this book Peter and Josie were once friends that drifted apart she became the popular girl in school he remained the one that got bullied
065they and other factors led him to commit the school shooting and that scenario is just so well known in real life I don't understand why we don't want our children reading about this book reading this book because it is about things that they do encounter and I mean hopefully it won't ever happen here but doesn't everybody think it'll never happen there um it deals with many F themes friendship the social hierarchy in high school bullying sexual violence everybody keeps talking about the sex in this book the sex in this book is basically date rape it's not glorifying or titilating or anything like that these things happen our kids know about these things and they should know about them they should know how to try to prevent this sort of thing not to let themselves get
066into a situation where that could even happen to them there were so many signs in this book that Peter was heading for a psychotic break but his parents the school and his friend Josie all failed to recognize the signs and to take any action to help him I feel that not only should this book be allowed to stay in the library I think it should be required reading with a vigorous class discussions as to what he went through and what everybody else's roles were in this tragedy um I think it would lead to empathy and understanding The Way It Was Written is just so so believable and so familiar um it's been 50 years since I've been in high school almost and uh these students were still I felt like they were my friends my
067people I knew um some things never change uh sorry I lost my way a little bit but I think this should be taught in schools because I think it would teach people how the things they do their actions and harming others can harm other people how to build empathy and to better see the signs that a student is struggling and reaching their breaking point it would be great if all parents read this book as well because the parents in the book also didn't see the signs um could reading this book prevent the next Sandy Hook the next Parkland the next yaldi I don't know but as I F was stated earli is at least prevented one thank you uh members of the board uh having heard the speakers this time the next item on our
068agenda is to go through the actual appeals process what's the pleasure of the board do you want to go directly or would you like to take a break all right so um again I don't think we need a motion in a second we'll uh we will take a uh let's adjourn or rejourn at 20 after uh and at that time we'll start the actual appeals process thank you e at this time we will uh call the meeting back to order we will from this point forward hear the uh the actual hearing on the books couple of reminders uh for procedure for those in the audience uh this is not a dialogue both sides will be presented the board will hear both sides of the argument and after that is heard if the board so chooses
069they may go into special session um after that or me if there is no uh closed session excuse me if there is no closed session we would uh go directly to uh discussion and deliberations so this point I will recognize our board attorney Crystal Davis who will U begin the public hearing regarding the challenge book Thank you Mr chairman um at this time the Kataba County Board of Education will convene the um Board hearing regarding the appeal the appeal of a challenged book uh it is is it entitled it is entitled in the matter of Michelle 's appeal to the Kataba County Board of Education from District level decisions to retain the following resource I'm sorry decision to retain the following resource in the high school media centers and that resource is 19 minutes by
070jod pult and that's P IU LT at at this time we will um I will present a statement of the case um for the record these exhibits that uh each of each board member has a copy of are labeled and I will go through those and and um offer those into evidence uh or Place those into evidence for consideration by the board the first is exhibit one which is the Kataba County Board of Education request for cons reconsideration of Educational Services which was completed by Michelle Teague uh she dated that on March 22nd 2022 in addition that has a three pages of it's a total of five pages she has three pages of attachments with that the next item for the record is exhibit number two which consists of a six pages and that those
071six pages consist of one a letter to dated October 10th 2023 to Miss Michelle Teague and it is is um from the um it is it is stated October 10th uh 2023 and it is from the [Music] uh high school book challenge committee um in addition attached to that is is the actual high school book challenge committee's CCS reconsideration committee Port uh along with its own attachments the next exhibit is exhibit number three which consists of 14 pages it is the Kataba County Board of Education request for review of building level recommendation that was completed by Michelle Teague on 117 2023 uh it it contains attachments by her which includes excerpts um from the book in addition there is um exhibit number four which consists of two pages it is a letter dated January 17th
072202 uh four which is a review by the um or is a letter from the district book challenge committee uh with their decision with regard to um Miss tig's appeal the next is exhibit five exhibit five is um consist of 17 pages and is um an consists of an email from U Michelle Tig to um the assistant superintendent for curriculum instruction Lee Miller wherein she requests appeal to appeal the uh District's decision uh regarding the 19 the challenge of 19 minutes to the Kataba County Board of Education that is the statement of the case as I said the court reporter has a copy of each of those there's been no objection by any board member that those be included into evidence uh at this time I would just take um a minute to remind you
073we've done this several times before that it is incumbent upon this board to uh conduct an impartial hearing with regard to the appeal of this book Chan alleng to the board um I have explained to the board I won't go through everything before I think you're well aware that there is some indication uh some arguments for both sides uh that of whether the case of Trump trump sorry versus Board of Education applies in this matter regarding uh impartial hearings and require whether it requires the recusal of any board member as I've told you before uh boards cannot compel a person a a person a board member to recuse themselves from the from a hearing um the board members can object to um a person conducting thems in an unfair and impartial manner there is some
074question about whether Crump versus Board of Education applies in this case uh the argument is that it applies in a quasi judicial situation and again there's argument that this is a quasi judicial situation uh and there's argument that this is simply a matter of uh policy decisions for the board so not policies in terms of our policies but policy decisions in terms of how the board uh wishes to conduct itself so in uh in the past we have had motions at this point in time made by board members I don't know if the board wants to take this time to make any motions if so you'll need to speak up it's not my position to um ire those or not okay hearing none the next item of business for the board is to hear the
075complainants oper the um the complainant statement of her case and her arguments to the board for removing the book so at this time we'll hear from Michelle TIG re uh in her opportunity to be heard is there Wake On I guess well you can hear me okay okay okay okay I'm okay I'm Michelle Teague and I am here to appeal um 19 minutes by Jody pit um what I would like to say first of all what I like to do is I would like to read um the letter or the email that I had sent um regarding um the um my decision to appeal this book okay and I would like to say I'm disappointed by the decision to keep this book excuse me all the members of the board have the letter right okay
076um but this is still my hearing this is still my hearing can I uh it is but uh again there's no need to read copies of material and evidence that we have and have had a chance to review Ahad ofing though that's part of my hearing as you know to stand up here and um say what I have here I mean what do you I mean I'm not sure what you want me to say assume we've all read it and then go where you would go from that point okay well well okay um um as far as that goes um I mean you have every bit of the evidence I mean what am I standing up here for why am I standing up here the public I'm asking a question chair you were to present
077the facts of 19 minutes as you see them the Salient facts you presented a lot of uh exculpatory evidence what we need is your opinion on why 19 minutes should not be retained in our librar that is doing what because I am reading this right here and I'm going into the reasons why I believe that this book should be removed do you do you intend to read all the pages of all five exhibits no sir and why this one I mean okay I'm not sure why I am not allowed to read I have been able to read this every time why why are we having an issue now Mr chairman may I just ask for a point of clarification yes is the hearing between theard or the this is an appeal to the board the
078public was invited for to because it is an open meeting one and to make comments but so present the evidence to us uh we have the email and uh and and I have read it and I assume all the other board members uh have done so so uh you you can dispense with [Applause] that okay well this is this is um the information that I have written and um some of the issues that I feel like this book entails so I'll just go this route okay and this is why I feel like teenagers should not be reading 19 minutes especially in high school um 19 minutes contain sexual references profanity and and violence including bullying and suicide within the book mature content 19 minutes deals with heavy themes such as bullying violence and teen suicide
079these topics can be intense for young readers potentially causing emotional distress or anxiety it has graphic scenes the book contains graphic descriptions of violent Acts including a school shooting exposure to such vivid depictions of violence can be disturbing and not suitable for students or or teenagers it can also cause a teenager to desensitize the violence exposure to graphic descriptions of a school shooting with such violence May desensitize young readers to the real life consequences of such acts and lead them to perceive violence as a solution or a way to gain attention um I feel like this book could also glorify it could glorify tragedy some argue that the book unintentionally glor ifies the tragic event by focusing on the shooter's perspective young readers might romanticize or empathize with the character responsible for the violence there
080also could be copycat Behavior while it's unlikely that reading a book alone would directly lead to Violent Behavior there is a risk of CopyCat Behavior vulnerable individuals might be influenced by the detailed portrayal of a school shooting the sexual content there are sexual references and discussions about sexual relationships in the novel um many parents feel uncomfort able with teenagers encountering explicit content at a young age language and profanity the book includes profanity and strong language exposure to such language is not appropriate for adolescence this book contains the f bomb 47 times parental concerns parents have expressed reservations about their kids reading this book there are concerns this book could negatively influence their teenagers perception of school relationships and life in general the emotional impact the emotional weight of the story can be overwhelming teenagers are
081still developing and emotionally and exposure to intense themes may affect their mental well-being lack of cont contextual understanding teenagers may like the life experience and emotional maturity to fully understand the complexities of the situations depicted in the book lack of guidance without proper guidance and discussion teenagers May interpret or struggle to process the complex issues presented in this book teenagers could start accep violence bullying or self harm as a part of their reality um I feel like there could be alternate choices other books could be made available that address similar themes but in a more appro age appropriate manner encouraging teenagers to explore literature that aligns better with their emotional maturity might be a wiser choice in summary while 19 minutes offers valuable insights into importantance societ issues it's essential to consider the emotional Readiness
082and maturity of teenage readers before recommending it to them open open communication between parents Educators and teens is crucial to ensure a responsible approach to reading material I also feel like um as the school board it must strike a balance between respecting Community Values protecting students rights and ensuring access to diverse literature legal challenges may arise if decisions disapp dis disproportionately favor one interest over another foreseeability and duty of care schools have a duty of care to protect students from foreseeable harm if it can be demonstrated that the book directly influenced a students violent actions legal claims might arise plops could argue that the schools should have foreseen the risk of harm based on the book's content and taken preventative measures um also I feel like NE neg negligent claims parents or victims of a
083school shooting might bring negligent claims against the school district they could argue that the school failed to to adequately access assess the risk associated with the book failed to provide proper supervision or failed to take reasonable steps to prevent harm so with that said um I mean I actually had taken a um a webinar on bullying and I feel that um some of the things that were said um that are as a school we could be held liable for some of the things if a if a student did actually um take do the opposite have the opposite effect of actually um could actually do have a school shooting I mean if they if they went the other way instead of getting some some some type of um uh effect from this from the book to
084actually go against that of have doing a school shooting they could do just the opposite um there's also there is some things in in this book that are sexually explicit um and actually the the sexual explicitness is on page 313 and um I'm not sure in my opinion if I don't see how anybody can determine whether somebody's going to be aroused or not sexually when they read this I mean in my opinion they could be especially a young boy or a teenager of some sort um um the things that I um have um have an issue with this book as well is that some of the ideas that were involved in this book there was like teen pregnancy um there was unprotected sex there was um teen pregnancy um as far as that goes the
085girl was trying to figure out how to end her pregnancy with natural remedies um some things in the book just gave certain ideas that um I don't think that our our teenagers should be subjected to necessarily um also with the school shooting um there was things um going on with with that I mean you're actually um you know I understand the Boolean concept but at the same time I feel like um these kids could um you know if and on on one hand you some some people could say and as they did that it could help it could help you know them see things in a different light and not want to be a school shooter on the other hand it could be a trigger it could be a trigger um so I mean it
086could go either way and and that's just the nature of the Beast it could go either way um as far as that's the sexual explicit um we have on here um I'm going to read this because it's here and this is what I this was part of my um issue with this book was the sexual explicit part of this book this is part of the date rape which is very um unacceptable and disturbing and I have daughters I have granddaughters and this is one of the reasons why I actually appealed this book or challenge this book is because I do have kids and um I know that even when I think back of when my kids were teenagers I I would not want my kids reading this book um I was a very involved parent
087I'm an involved grandparent and this book is not satisfactory to me as far as what we should be offering our kids in school um and that's why um I'm going to go ahead and um let you hear this on page 313 of this he pinned her hands over her head and ground his hips against hers she could feel his erection hot against her stomach it wasn't the way it normally was but Josie had to admit that it was exciting she couldn't remember ever feeling so heavy as if her heart were beating between her legs she clawed at Matt's back to bring him closer yeah he groaned and he pushed her thighs apart and then suddenly Matt was inside her pumping so hard that she scooted backward on the carpet burning the backs of her legs
088wait Josie said trying to roll away from beneath him but he clamped his hand over her mouth and drove harder and harder until Josie felt him come Seaman stick sticky and hot pulled the carpet beneath her they were on the floor of the living room and they were nearly naked Josie could taste beer on Matt's breath but she must have tasted like that too they both drunk a few at Drew's not enough to get wasted but buzzed enough so that Matt's hands seemed to be all over her at once so that his skin set fire to hers she'd been floating along pleasantly in a haze of thei of the familiar yes Matt had kissed her one short one then a longer hungry kiss as his hand worked open the clasp on her bra she lay
089Lazy spread beneath him like a feast as he pulled off her jeans but then instead of doing what usually came next Matt reared over her again he kissed her so hard that it hurt M she said said pushing at him relax Matt murmured and then he sank his teeth into her shoulder he pinned her hands over her head and ground his hips against hers she could feel his erection hot against her stomach it wasn't the way it normally was but Josie had to admit that it was exciting she couldn't remember ever feeling so heavy as if her heart were beating between her legs you already read that yes I did and that is the thing about this um um this is that is unsatisfactory for any child to read I'm embarrassed to even have to
090read it here um our kids shouldn't be reading this this bill um and that's how I feel about it and um so um that concludes um my my appeal for this book Thank you are there uh questions from the board for Miss te if you could y Miss TIG you mentioned that parents have opposed to this is there any reason you didn't include copies of that opposition in your evidence the feedback that I have gotten from parents it's the feedback that I have received from parents that have opposition to this do you have copies of that to share with us we'd like to see that as well no but um you've heard the audience give um their opposition to this book that that should conclude it I think we heard both sides actually yes I
091didn't reporter I did not hear uh your opposition to what the district committee's decision was I think the hearing tonight has been has been pointed out is that you're appealing their decision what part of their decision do you not agree with that you've told us you don't want the book uh in our libraries but what part of the decision that the district committee gave us do you not agree with what part of their reasoning I I don't agree with any of it like they misapplied the Miller test for instance well I mean still I mean I think the Miller test comes down to the point where it can be questionable as far as what's what's considered arousal and what's not arousal that I mean there's a lot of things that can be left for interpretation
092Mr yes um Miss te according to exhibit one I don't think I have exhibit one up here but anyway go ahead well let let me read it to you exhibit one number one did you read view listen to the entire resource um okay is it correct is it correct that you've said no is that correct okay um I think we had this discussion one other time at the book reading and um when I first submitted some of these I had not read the book books so but then later on I did read the books and so I have read the books so then again if you recall the discussion prior then then that would be true then would you say that the Washington Post misquoted you when you stated that you had read every one
093of the books that you've challenged and according to that article you said you checked each of those books out at the local library so is that a misquote um I do not recall um saying that I checked out every single book at the local library um I did read the books after I had submitted the first um of um set of appeals but you not read this book when you challenged it yes I did no it says on here you not no no okay you're trying to trip me up no I'm not trying to Tri you up yes you are you trying to trip me up I did not read this book when I first submitted the first appeal ever since then I have went through these books and I have read them and that
094was my statement to the Washington post that I have read these books but you stated in here you had not read it when you I just told you I just explained it what I have read I did not read it on the first when I first challenged the books I have went back through and I have read the books I don't know how much more clearer I can get with you Mr abery okay I just wanted to be clear because according to that article according to the article you had not read the book that you had read the book now you you're just trying to trip me up and trying to catch me in something that's not the truth it's ridiculous in response to the U parents are concerned um I have asked for the
095number of high school students in Kataba County Schools there's approximately 5,18 students in our high school out of those students there's only one student whose parents have blocked in from reading these books so I'm not saying parents aren't concerned but if they are they're not stepping up and I feel like some of the parents are still not aware of what they can do to keep their their children from reading the books I still don't think we have we have been doing marketing we've been doing a a a good job but we can still do better M Miss uh excuse me Dr Barnett um Miss TIG in your one email to do or to Mr Taylor that you asked for us to have this appeal this hearing you uh this is a quote you said there
096are students at the high school level who aren't mature enough to read this book am I to take from that statement that there are some students who are mature enough to read it um I think Miss Barnett you would know the answer to that question because you've been a teacher and a principal for as long as I I um as long as um I can remember um my thing is is that there are different maturity levels of students exactly and there are students that are do that are not as mature as other students do you think would decide that um well I'm sure that um you know teachers and parents I'm sure that there's other there's people that can determine the maturity level anybody can I guess rate the maturity level of a of a
097child it would be a Parent's Choice in that case I'm not I mean it's always about parents no no doubt about it parents are always in charge of their children they should be um the issue that I have is I have C there's certain things as far as um um Educators that also think that they're in charge of the kids it comes back to the parents bottom line got ask why you get to choose for other parents I'm choose I am the voice for the parents that do not want this trash in our school that's why I was elected to this position as a board member Mr I one additional question again on exhibit one that you submitted number five says what is good about the resource and your answer was it's not applicable why
098in a challenge would that question not be applicable that you could either site that there was nothing uh but to say not applicable why would you think it's not applicable I mean I don't I mean my thing is is that this book I mean there's I mean I I didn't feel like it was applicable at the time I mean what the the reason why I was appealing the book is because it's not satisfactory in my opinion to be in the school system and I had one point uh Miss Teague uh and then i' thank you for sharing your opinion because that's why we're here to hear that uh but we have 11 singular Pages which have been downloaded from booklook dorg which is a a national uh group with a particular uh political slant um
099with a a canned and readymade um you sort of uh appeal dour that you can uh just download and and uh introduce into any community why did you choose that Source because I feel like they're credible the reason why they're credible is just they have they have they have went through they have a committee that goes through each book and they read them and they find the things that are inappropriate in the books I mean there's other there's other um Outlets out there that are that also they might not say um they they have their own standard of what they're what they're what their what their um what their organization stands for just like other organizations have what they stand for they do book book summaries this they just happen to do um they go
100out there and they find the things that might be inappropriate for kids in the books and I I would just add a point we've got one of those committees in this County too that that uses the perspective of the residents of Kataba County rather than bringing content in from a National Organization I just think that's worth noting in this uh in this discussion are there other questions yes Mr chair do we know uh how many times this book's been checked out and how long has it's been in our library it's been checked out 136 times yeah that data was sent to us uh Mr chair actually I can answer that I've got it in my notes U at Bunker Hill High School it's been checked out 11 times it was put on the Shelf in
1012009 that's till 2022 ranty Ford checked out 15 times from 2009 to 2018 maiden high school six times from 2017 to 2018 and St Stevens High School 104 from 2008 to 2011 and it was checked out one time in 2022 thank you Miss B chair yes Dr Barnett just like to ask Miss TIG also if you'd tell us which character in the book you found the most offensive most defensive um probably um Matt the one that that that committed the date rate one of them I I know I found the whole book offensive there was several things in there I found offensive so the date rape was more than the child who murdered nine children and and I just said there was several things in there that were offensive I find it all offensive that's
102why I don't think it's appropriate for it to be in our schools we could be held Lial because if some kid sit there and decided they liked what or Tri was triggered by shooting from reading this book your biggest concern is the language rather than the bullying and murder I'm concerned on all of it I don't like the book as far as the things that are going on I don't I think that this book if it was going to be read needed to be post High School not in the high school with with teenagers and students yet you admit some kids in high school are mature enough I did not say that they were mature enough to read this book on that level I still think I don't think when you plant seeds or you
103you get you sit there and you hand over something that's got 47 um f bombs in a book I just don't think that's appropriate they can't go in the hall and say those words so we're just going to hand it to them over privately and let them read it um there's all kinds of things in that book that's not appropriate were was there a reason you didn't site any of the scenes of the uh school shooting and only chose language explicit sexually charged language in your H presentation no I mean I just said that they had 47 things in there for the for the um the f bomb I mean as far as like the shooting it's violence it doesn't matter either way it's violence Mr chairman could I read one passage from the book
104Yes Man and I can provide this to the reporter later in the book if if that's okay this is on page 241 um I think um to Mr Abernathy's point about out saying that in your application that there's nothing in the book that had U that there was nothing applicable about it having any purpose or meaning or good exactly however that's phrased this is just from a student Journal it doesn't tell who and the as the book goes on as you know Miss TIG it doesn't tell whose Journal this is but it gives different random journal entries and this happens to be one of them and it says ask a random kid today if she wants to be popular and she'll tell you no even if the truth is that if she was in a
105desert dying of thirst and had the choice between a glass of water and instant popularity she'd probably choose the latter see you can't admit to wanting it because that makes you less cool to be truly popular it has to look like it's something you are when in reality it's what you make yourself I wonder if anyone Works harder at anything than kids do at being popular I mean even air traffic controllers and the president of the United States takes vacations but look at your average high school student and you'll see who's putting in time 24 hours a day for the length of an entire school year so how do you crack that inner sanctum well here's the catch it's not up to you what's important is what everyone else thinks it's how you dress sorry
106how you dress what you eat for lunch what shows you uh to and what music's on your iPod I've always sort of wondered though if everyone else's opinion is what matters then do you ever really get to have one of your own and that's just one passage that I think so insightful and empathetic to the true High School experience in 2007 and even today and how could you say there's no parts of this book that are worthwhile yeah understand and she commit almost committed suicide she almost committed suicide did I said she almost committed suicide she took a bunch of peels you know what she did at the end I know I know that she actually shot um Matt the guy in the stomach so I mean she had her own demons and that these
107are the things that I'm saying that there's there's for every um passage that might you might come across there's just as many that are just not that are not as good there's bad passages in the book I think the good outnumber those I don't think so that's a matter of opinion you have your opinion Miss Barnett and I have mine uh are fur uh further either questions or points of order Mr chairman well on the on the agenda I'm sorry yeah do we need board members do we need a a closed session what is the pleasure of the board Mr chairman I'd like to in the uh face of impartiality I would like to move that we recuse Miss te from the discussions and vote on 19 minutes we have a motion on the floor
108I second that and a motion and a second is it discussion about that motion before we take any further action I believe we should let her vote because we have on all the others I don't see any difference tonight it's one book Thank you actually objected to all of them uh are there other uh points of discussion relative to the motion I guess I don't get to say do I get a say in this as as well or not um well yes you're a member of the board so you would actually uh get get a vote here uh all of those in favor of Dr Barnett's motion to recuse Miss Teague from voting on this appeal signified by raised hand and that would be Mr Taylor Dr Barnett and Mr Abnet all those opposed to
109this motion signified by raised hand that is M Richards Mr Sigman Mr settl Meer and Miss Teague the motion fails 4 to three uh back to the original question do we need to consider uh a close session or do we want to uh proceed straight to deliberations and discussions hearing no motion for clo open excuse me for close session then U I would uh say that we proceed to deliberations miss teag thank you for your presentation you uh may be seated and uh at this time the board discussions and deliberations on 19 minutes on the exhibits that we have been provided uh on Miss Davis uh presentation of facts and on Miss teague's uh presentation and the questions that were asked of her will now take place Mr chair I'd like to entertain a motion
110uh that we put this book for parents consent her the Bill of Rights and their constitute and as Miss TIG said she's doing this for the parents so why why should we take out of the parents hands it should be their decision thank you there is a motion on the floor uh to restrict 19 minutes to parent U permission um is there a second to that motion hearing none that motion would then fail for lack of a second thank you m I like to make a motion to remove this book from the libraries okay Miss Teague has uh put a motion on the floor to uh remove 19 minutes from the Kataba County schools libraries is there a second a second there is motion and a second uh discussion on the motion I would U
111add and again this has been alluded to Dr Barnett spoke to it Miss teag spoke to it I think one of our speakers I believe it was Mr batty spoke to it about parents um our parents overwhelmingly uh and several times in issues that we have discussed on this board have indicated that they feel like they need to be the Arbiters of what their children do what they're taught and what they're exposed to our current policy provides them that option it allows them to flag any book deny any book so that already exists also when our parents were surveyed on this uh just to remind over 80% of them uh did not consider books one of the major issues that they were dealing with it wasn't moving the needle so I I just wanted to
112interject that uh I sort of I agree with uh M Miss Richards in her motion that I think this is a parents issue but so we have a motion and a second any further comment Mr chairman I'd just like to say I certainly hear Miss Richards also on the fact that she is coming down on the right of parent side of parent rights um any others on the parents I'm on the side of parents as well um however um I we do have a mixed bag here where I feel that parent there parents there could be parents on both sides of the aisle but as a I just believe that we should remove this book hearing no further comment I will call the question uh the motion in second has been made on the floor
113to remove 19 minutes from Kataba schools County School libraries all in favor of that motion please signify by raised hand that is M Teague Mr Sigman Mr settl Meer all those opposed to that motion signify by a raised hand Mr Taylor Ms Richards Dr Barnett and Mr abery that motion fails 4 to three so at this time we have had essentially motions from opposite sides of the agenda uh are there others to be put forth hearing none uh if there are no further motions uh then the policy that currently exists would stay in place as I understand it Council am I correct um and 19 minutes would remain uh as an option for parents to allow their children to check out or not as they see fit um last thing on our agenda is to
114schedule a board meeting to submit report um tell us about that yeah e we could possibly do it at our April [Music] meeting somebody count the No it's it's all day it includes weekends sorry so I don't think it's going to be so our April meeting is the 22nd right that generally don't count weekends do we yes we do I thought when we started the book challenges it was 30 days that students were're in class no no that was for the challenges for the board to actually return their report it's 30 days now the board can move one of you can make a motion to extend that time and um to make it April 26 is that what the next 22nd I'm sorry it's only four days I'd like to make a I'll make the
115motion that we extend that uh to get us to the board meeting uh the next regularly scheduled board meeting in April motion's been made to uh have the submit the report for approval for this Challenge on April 22nd at our regularly scheduled board meeting that motion is on the floor and a second are is there a discussion hearing none all in favor of uh voting on The Challenge report on April 26 second signify by raising your hand and that is a unanimous vote that that works and um that that brings me to our reminder before we uh consider a motion to adjourn our next regularly scheduled meeting will be 22nd of April um oh excuse me 25th of March um yeah but uh and that is next Monday third Monday in a row just parenthetically
116uh I will now entertain a motion to adjourn our meeting have a motion on the floor and a second all in favor of adjournment please signify by raising your hand board members thank you and members of the public thank you for your attendance and your participation