OCPS | 2025-11-18 School Board Work Session

001Well, good afternoon everyone and welcome to the Orange County School Board's work session which has been scheduled for today, Thursday, November 18th, 2025 for the purpose of discussing scooters and ebikes, schools of hope charter application for Wild Oaks Preparatory Academy. The public will not have an opportunity to speak during today's work session because this is not a regularly scheduled schoolboard meeting. no action will be taken and there'll be no open public comment period in which we would normally take comments from the public. So those of you who have joined us just out of out of interest and concern we are very excited to have you here. Let me start with a quick roll call. Member Ferrant I'm here chair. Thank you. Member Douglas here. Member Vanos here. Member Felder present. Member Bird present. Vice Chair

002Salamanca, I believe, is joining us telephontically. Thank you. And member Gallo is absent for today. I believe she's at a school. Yeah. what kind of a educational Oh, an educational conference. Thank you. So, as a reminder, board will board members will not be engaging in outside electronic or digital communication during the meeting so we can focus our attention on the matters before us today. To my fellow board members and district staff, when speaking, please make sure that your microphone is turned on and speak directly into it so our YouTube and Orange TV viewers can hear you clearly. Thank you again so much for participating. We will now rise for a moment of of silence and then I invite you to join us in the pledge of allegiance. And now for the pledge. To the flag

003of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right, Dr. Vasquez, we're going to turn the meeting over to you. I believe we're going to take up the discussion of scooters and ebikes first. thank you, Madam Chair. Yes. this afternoon, we'll begin our work session with discussion on scooters and ebikes. as the board has had conversations around safety, as we have an increasing number of scooters and ebikes in our schools, we have found that they are posing an additional danger. I board member Douglas requested that we come together our team led by Mr. Joe Sylvestrus who is senior director of safety and emergency management will present to you some data some of the existing legislation laws that are in

004place and they were able to come up with a few possible actions the board may be able to take to help curb some of the accidents that we're seeing and ensure that our children are as safe as possible. So with that, Mr. Sylvestus, you can start the presentation. Thank you. Superintendent Vasquez, can you hear me? Okay. No, not very well. Closer. Yeah, that's better. I'm I'm not kidding about them being super sensitive. Thank you. No worries. Well, good afternoon, Chairwoman Jacobs, board member, and Superintendent Dr. Vasquez. We're here today to discuss scooters and other electric mobility devices. In today's session, we'll begin by providing a background on the growing use of electric scooters and ebikes, particularly among students. We'll then review the current laws and regulations that govern these devices both locally and statewide. Following

005that, we'll highlight the steps Orange County Public Schools has taken to address the presence and impact of scooters and ebikes in and around our campuses. We'll also explore potential opportunities to mitigate the challenges we're seeing and consider proactive strategies to support responsible use. Finally, I'll turn it back over to superintendent for questions and discussions. Background. Over the past decade, and especially in the last three years, scooters and ebikes have surged in popularity as convenient modes of transportation across communities, recreational trails, and urban areas. With each passing year, these devices become more technologically advanced and more affordable, making them increasingly accessible to a wider population. This upward trend shows no signs of slowing down and I fully expect their presence to continue growing in the years ahead. The FDO slide that you see in front of

006you highlights the various mobility devices commonly seen in our communities among students. The graphic provides a concise overview of each device type, including descriptions and regulatory requirements. Notably, the ebike category features more detailed classifications which are based on factors such as motor engagement and maximum speed. In addition to scooters and ebikes, other electrical powered mobility devices such as skateboards and unicycles are increasingly visible in our communities as well. These devices fall under the same statute governing these previous devices. There's been a significant increase in scooter related injuries with hospitals reporting more trauma cases involving head injuries, broken bones, and even spinal damage, often among riders not wearing helmets. Since 2017, e- scooter injuries in the US have surged by approximately 400% and Florida ranks among the states with the highest emergency room visits for scooter

007related trauma. Incidents involving children under 15 or more than doubled in 2023 to 2024, representing an 80% increase. While teenagers and young adults aged 15 to 24 remain the most affected group, notably 18% of all e scooter injuries in 2024 were head injuries. Within our district, there have been a number of incidents that have occurred on and off campus so far this school year, underscoring the urgent need for enhanced safety measures and education. Some risk factors and common causes. A significant number of riders continue to forego helmets despite strong safety recommendations, contributing to the rise in traumatic head injuries. Environmental factors such as narrow roadways, limited bike lanes, and even uneven pavement further elevate the risk of falls and collisions. Compounding this issue is the growing number of distracted drivers and young riders who lack

008proper training and traffic rules leading to more frequent accidents. Most incidents involve single rider falls caused by a loss of control. Additionally, the small size and quiet operation of scooters make them difficult for drivers to detect, especially at intersections and turns, resulting in preventable crashes. Let's talk about laws and regulations. I'd like to provide a brief summary of how Florida statutes define bicycles, micromobility devices, including motorized scooters and similar electricalpowered transportation options. Bicycles. Every vehicle propelled solely by a human power having two tandem wheels and including any device generally recognizes as a bicycle. Though equipped with two front and two rear wheels, the term does not include scooters or similar devices. Definition of a bicycle. Electric bicycles. A bicycle or tricycle equipped with fully operational pedals. A seat or saddle the use of for the

009use of the rider. An electric motor of less than 750 watts which meets the requirements one of the following three classifications. A class one assistance with pedaling up to 20 mph. A class two electric bike electrically propelled to 20 miles per hour. and a class three assistance with pedaling up to 28 miles per hour. Motorized scooters. Any vehicle or microbility device that is powered by a motor with or without a seat or saddle for the use of the rider, which is designed to travel on not more than three wheels, and which is not capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed greater than 20 mph on level ground. This term does not include electric bicycles. There is a proposed House Bill 243 and a Senate bill as well to update the existing legislation of electric

010bicycles, scooters, and motorcycles requiring certain crash reports to include certain information. Requires state to maintain certain statistics. Prohibits persons from operating class 3 electric bicycles without certain licenses. Provides requirements for such operations. prohibits certain persons from operating certain motorcycles and revises requirements for certain learner drivers license license education course. Requires minimum number of questions in a test bank for a class E driver's license to cover electric bicycles and motorized scooter operation and provides various penalties. Talk about the city in Orange County. These ordinance primarily address the use of devices and the responsibility of the companies that provide such services which you see here locally around the city. On a note, the city has a dashboard of bike scooters and it's amazing that there's over 1300 of these devices within the city limits with over 3

011million trips and 700 million miles traveled. So these obviously get a lot of use. So OCPS's actions. I'd like to share the initiative OCPS has implemented to enhance scooter and ebike safety. Currently, Occupational Safety and Health is actively working to provide resources for parents and guardians, ensuring that ensuring that families understand the risk and best practices associated with mobility devices. Two deputy superintendent newsletters were distributed to principles for sharing with parents and students. The first sent in March included guidance provided by the Orange County Sheriff's Office. The second was issued in September of this year featured featured links to the Florida statutes, escooter and ebike information card and safety reminders for families. During this period period, a parent square message was sent out to parents as well. The Office of Occupational Safety and Health, who

012are sitting behind me, has partnered with BikeWalk Central Florida to deliver multiple safety presentations across our schools. Last year, presentation was complete at Water Springs Middle School, followed by two more this year at Horizon's West Middle School and Edgewater High School. Additionally, two further presentations are planned with schools to be identified. The Office of Safety and Health continues to collaborate and strategize on introducing additional presentations in both middle and high schools to strengthen awareness and promote safe practices for ebike and e scooter use. Some opportunities. I'd like to share some opportunities OCPS can explore to address the challenges associated with e- scooters and ebikes users among our students. We can strengthen awareness by partnering with our communications division and internal media outlets to deliver district-wide service announcements on mobility device safety and regulations. This include

013creating slice videos and featuring a discussion with the superintendent during a Mondays with Maria segment. Additionally, we can establish a dedicated section on the OCPS website that provides comprehensive information and resources focused on bike and scooter safety. Another opportunity is to collaborate with our public safety partners in BikeWalk Central Florida to develop student training programs on safe bike and scooter operation prior to student usage. This would impact schools on how to manage and enforce student riders behavior. We could also expand outreach efforts by hosting town halls on pedestrian, bike, and scooter safety, attending PTA meetings to share best practices, coordinating safety fairs, and distributing flyers at schools and during parent teacher conference nights. Finally, one option would be to prohibit the use of these devices altogether. It's important to note that the current OCPS code

014of student conduct does not reference e- scooters or ebikes at all. I will now turn it back over to Superintendent Dr. Vasquez. Dr. Vasquez, you're recognized. thank you to the team for putting this together in such a short period of time. As you can see, we have limited opportunities to address the safety concerns. What I would like the board to keep in mind is that some of the recommendations that we have made such as training or having the students walk the scooters once they're on our campus is going to be an additional task required of our of schools and staff. And so that is something that I did not want to be overlooked and recognizing that our best hope of increasing safety is at the school level. All right. Thank you, Dr. Vasquez. I wanted

015to clarify one thing and then I'll open the floor to comments from board members. The last recommendation about banning ebikes just for clarification for the public would only entail on school property. I mean I know that but correct I know I've heard from a number of people that are assuming we have wider authority than we have. So all right any board members? Member Douglas, member Douglas, member Annos, after that then member Fant. Member Douglas, you're recognized. thank you so much for bringing this subject in. it's a very troubling you know, recurring event that we're seeing more and more in Orange County public schools that our kids can get hurt for. Absolutely. I mean, just transportation like that. Okay, that could hurt their mental and physical aspect of and and learning. Okay, because if they are

016in the hospitals and for a period of time, they're missing a whole lot. So, we have to take all this into account that it has more repercussions than we think it does. and also I thank you so much for taking into account that fact that our kids need to, you know, disembark, get off the bike or whatever before they enter Orange County Public Schools. I just also wanted to bring into awareness that our parents need to also advocate for their kids. advocates or all these people that are selling those vehicles or how do how do you call machines they need to be aware of of the impact that they have on our kids and they need to have they need to have some safety you know guard heralds how to sell these things to our

017kids parents do we need maybe a permit some type of something to make sure that the kids don't you know, don't go too far in how to ride those those vehicles. I mean, I just want to to just want us to brainstorm. I want parents to come in and just also be aware that these are your children and we want the safety of all our children in Orange County Public Schools. So whenever you're buying those machines, you have to be aware of what they can do or the impact they can have on your children. That's all I have. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you, Member Douglas. Member Vanos, you're recognized. Thank you, Madam Chair. just a question. one question is for the ebikes and the I guess particularly for the ebikes. Have you

018done any research into I've heard that sometimes the batteries on the bikes can be a fire hazard. Have you heard anything about that? And is are we concerned about that from a school perspective having them on the school property? So, they are I believe powered by lithium, but I have not done a lot of research on the probability of them catching on fire at on school property or being an issue. Okay. Thank you. for the safety presentations that you mentioned, how effective have they been? I'm going to turn that over to Nick Moresy, who's our director. He's the one who was coordinated with Safe Walk organization. Probably can speak more to that. Okay. Thank you. Good afternoon, board member Vanos. from the feedback we've received from BikeWalk Central Florida, they have had positive feedbacks. as

019well as, you know, some some in some in some high schools maybe, you know, they haven't had they've had, good positive feedback in the majority of their cases that they've gone out to the out to outreach. Has it improved behavior and like decreased accidents or just do you mean like it's just appreciated or has it had an impact on accidents? And it has been appreciated by all the staff in the schools. it's it's it's very difficult to to to see and how to at you know the before and after. but we could definitely do more research to to see how much of an impact it has been has done. Okay. so this is something that I have talked to people at the county and the city about and we all end up talking in circles

020because it's it's difficult to enforce and I'm wondering even with the requirements that exist now for example with helmets are those enforced by I guess who would enforce it and are they enforced? So that would be law enforcement would be the enforcement component to that. And whether they're enforcing that or not, I don't know. I didn't inquire to the law enforcement agencies how they're handling that, but I surely can look into that to see if they do or aggressively enforce those. And u as far as the SRO's component being on campus, I don't know if they are or not, but I can find that out. And I think as we think about how we can make everything safer, we have to think about that component of enforcement because they're hard to enforce, right? It's hard

021to enforce speed when some of these don't even have speedometers. It's hard to enforce lensure because they come from anywhere and it we have to have people willing to enforce them. So, you know, one thing that I would like for us to consider is until we decide what the best way to educate or enforce some kind of regulation or work with our cities and counties and legislature to get them. I think one thing we could think about is a temporary, you know, ban on allowing them on our school campuses. It doesn't mean it's forever, but it means that we just need time to figure out the best way to address this. let me just make sure I didn't have any other questions. I do think I'll I'll just yeah, I'll stop for now and let

022my board members ask. Thank you. Thank you, member Vanos. Member Fant. Thanks. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you so much for the presentation and the information that was given. it is interesting. I think in with anything really as the school district, our place here is really to educate parents, educate the community on what is happening, what's taking place, but I don't know that it is our duty as a school district to eliminate something completely. And I would be more in favor with each school having more of a say in their school, their area, and saying, "Hey, we are having some issues with the ebikes in the area, or the students are being maybe more reckless with the scooters or ebikes and giving I think there needs to be some sort of option of if this

023continues, if we continue to see this at the school. If we continue to see students are reckless or not using caution when they're around the school area, we can't be out monitoring how they're behaving in every area of the neighborhood. same way when a fight happens in a neighborhood, we have no jurisdiction to police the fight. If it happens on our school campus, it's different. And so I think if we're able to communicate with parents and we that school particular school were to continue to see an issue then I could see saying at our school we're not going to we're no longer going to allow students to bring their ebike or e scooter. but I do think we need to allow parents that autonomy to choose what is best for their kid. but also give

024that information, give the what is, you know, being cautious and whatnot. you look at all there's all sorts of things that we've done. We've taken out swings from schools for instance because too many kids were falling and getting hurt. So we take the swings off of the schools. Something simple like that. but it's on our school campus. It's on the school grounds. where the ebikes are more we're we're dealing with the issue with them is as they're traveling to school not necessarily on the campus. Am I correct? There have been a couple cases of accidents on campus on campus. So I think in those instances we would really need to have that I would rather see us being more as the educator the educational side than just doing a complete removal or prohibiting. but if

025we are seeing such an uptick, I mean if that's what's going to keep our school safe and keep the community safe while they're on our school campus, I think that is something that you know as a board we do need to discuss and understand maybe more the how many instances you might have said it and I didn't write it down. How many instances have we had that occurred on school campus not like while they were coming to school? So I actually have that but the data is from a couple weeks ago. So on campus hold on go ahead. This is addresses a concern I just wrote you guys about. We have provided you that information by email but that is information that came in as part of safety and security exemption. So that would be

026considered confidential and exempt. So I wanted to just make sure we're not putting that out in public. Okay. Thank you for bringing. All right, I think that's it. I'm gonna look through the emails and get that information here. Thank you. All right. Thank you, member from general council. You're recognized. I am queuing in for member Salamanca. Oh, thank you. Member Salamanca, you're recognized. thank you so much, chair. Yeah. So, in district two and maybe it's the kind of streets or how the development has been out specifically in the Lake Nona area I have seen a really large uptick of very dangerous accidents with scooters on the way to school and very near to campus. I think one of the things I'm seeing a lot, specifically in high school as well, is something you mentioned, very

027young drivers who are distracted and then very fast scooters who are on their phone and they crash in or around campus. And it's it's really really bad accidents. Honestly, some of these kids are going to have lifealtering consequences to some of these accidents. So, I'm definitely seeing it. a couple of things that I would love to explore is if they do happen on school campus, adding that to our discipline, right? If it is happening, if students are being hurt, if students are being reckless, having that the code of conduct in some form the way we have other devices like cell phones and then outside of call the campus, I think I've heard from other school districts around the country that are banning certain types. So, as you said, there's like type class one, class 2,

028class three. There are certain scooters that if you cut the wire, which is very common, these things can go up to 40 miles per hour. And so there might be a way where we allow, I don't know, class one or class two, but not certain speeds anymore on our campus. And I know that enforcement is hard, but if we see a student going really fast, I think that allows some administrators to be able to prevent future accidents. I'm with member Ferrron that I'm not sure that I'm there quite yet on a full district-wide ban. but I would be open to giving our principles and administrators and call it PTAs perhaps more leeway if they want to get rid of certain devices because I do think every school is different and how you get to and

029get out of school and some are impacted more than others. and I want to be mindful of that. I do think there are some schools that really are struggling with the safety of their students and and families and parents who are emailing me and calling me all the time about what what is Orange County doing to keep our students safe. Especially if you're a student who walks to class to to school and then some other students are being reckless on e scooters and you happen to get hit by these things going 30 40 miles per hour but it's very scary. Thank you, Member Salamanca. member Felder, you're recognized. Thank you, Chair. thank you so much for your presentation. I do have some concerns and I probably am communicating some of the same thoughts of my

030fellow board members. cuz I have not personally but I've known and seen the experience with these lithium batteries with children on these scooters. My concern is if it happens on our campus and a student a child is hurt, there's a lawsuit. and I'm just concerned if we allow it. I'm listening to what member Salamanca said about, you know, certain schools way they're constructed, you know, are different from others and it might not be so dangerous, but I have seen the result of the lithium battery batteries and what happens when they blow up and when students are rushing through campuses and so forth. Do we have something in place in the event of an occurrence of a student on a scooter it blows the battery messes up and some children that not even on the scooter

031get hurt or what are some things in place? I'm life used to be so simple years ago but I know things, you know, we just walked to school and got on a bus and that was it. But I know things are changing. I have a real concern as to what is in place in the event something like that happens as a district. What what would we be doing? How will we protect the children or the child that's hurt? And then the repercussions from that occurring. I just have real concerns if they're riding to school. Yeah. But if you're on the campus, even riding to school, it may be dangerous if kids are walking, you're riding, you have not quite got on campus, and someone's standing near you and the battery blows up or burns and

032you're there. So, I'm not a proponent of of these types of scooters at all. So, I need to just let that register that I'm not. But, if things are in place and that we can argument some of those problems, then okay. But right now, I do have some serious serious reservations because as a board member, I've had parents had some situations at some of my schools when it wasn't a happy situation. Child was hurt. So, I just wanted to register that concern. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, member Felder. couple of couple of questions. So students are required under 16, which bothers me a little bit, over 16, they don't have to wear a helmet, but under 16, they're required by law to wear a helmet. Correct. That's correct. So, do we know

033if a student arrives on our campus on an ebike without a helmet, are do we have are we trying to enforce that in any way? And since it's not in our code of student conduct, I'm I'm not sure if we have the ability to. Let me start with our general counsel. Yeah. Number one, not being in your student code of conduct, that's problematic. But I think more fundamentally, that's a law enforcement function and we don't have necessarily that authority to do that. Okay. that's a pretty decisive no on that then. Okay. we well they're not necessarily part maybe there was some wiggle room in there. and we what we don't know at this point I think it would be helpful for the board to know is what are our law enforcement agencies doing with regard

034to enforcing the I will call them scant laws that are in place. And I say that because this is this is not unusual. It happens time and time again. technology outpaces safety regulations and that's certainly the case here. there are a number of pieces of legislation I think the board could get behind and I think the issue is way beyond schools when I see kids and it's generally kids sorry kids when you're a kid you think you're indispensable so it or yeah so it comes with the territory but when when I see them in the road no helmet on popping wheelies. It just it makes me cringe and I really think that we need to have different laws than we have in place. right now obviously bikes are allowed on on roads but very few

035people are riding their bike down the middle of the street going 20 miles an hour and popping wheelies. So, one of my suggestions in terms of legislation would be to look at where they're allowed, and I don't think they should be allowed in the road, with the exception of it being a dedicated bike lane. I actually don't think they should be allowed on multi-use pathways because that's another area where the pedestrian is put at risk. And these days when I go for a bike ride, a walk, more often than not, the people that I see walking have headphones on and can't even hear you coming. we have bells on our bikes. We binging it doesn't not even going not even going in. So, outside of school, I worry about the broader implications. So, I think

036there are just a couple things that we might be able to come back with a legislative agenda that we could hopefully get other school districts. I'm sure we could behind that. the reason I focus on that is I think that's going to be a more effective tool. I'm all for education and communication, but I'm also a realist. And the parents that are going to listen to us are probably already focused on this and they're probably already trying to make sure their kids are doing the right thing when they leave. I had four kids. I think I was a pretty good attentive parent, but I also know they didn't always do what I asked them to do. so even the best intention parent isn't a guarantee, but I think those are the parents that we're talking

037to and I'm more concerned about the parents who are less engaged and aware of what's happening with their kids. So, while I support all of those efforts, I'm I'm trying to think of what could really be effective. And I think consequences are the most effective things. So, what effective consequences could we have? And if we were able to say if you arrive at the school and you don't have a helmet on, if you're caught doing this or that at that point we would take away your ability to come on campus with with an ebike. I think that would be more tolerable, acceptable to the public. And if you come up with something that the public is more agreeable to, you have a much better chance at enforcement. So, I would kind of look along the

038lines of what is already not allowed, increase the limitations hopefully at a statewide level, and then use the authority of our code of student conduct to put in place consequences for those students who are violating those. John, what I would really like to know is if we know that students outside of our campus have been cited for either not wearing a helmet, not driving appropriately, exceeding the speed limit. any of those regulations that are in place now or in the future, could we have in our code institute of conduct a way to have ramifications accessing the school based on things that are happening outside of the school? And if the answer is no, which is almost certainly going to be, what would it take to change that? Would that take state legislation? and I shouldn't

039preempt you, but I can see why the answer is probably going to be no, but I'd love to hear a yes. Mr. Pomearini, what what say you over there? So, it's an unusual situation. So, just so you all know this, you all know this, but for people out in the public, you have home rule authority, which says you can act in any way that's not inconsistent with general state law. Now, you could put in place, I think, consequences for students if they, you know, if we become aware of infractions that occur outside, you know, but I caution that because we have to keep track of that once we assume the duty under state law or un under state law, we have to make sure that we are uniformly applying it. If we don't uniformly apply

040it, you know, then we could get hit with suits and negligence for not applying our rules uniformly in a way that right now we would not because we wouldn't we don't have any jurisdiction over that. We haven't taken jurisdiction over that. So, I would like to investigate that a little bit more if that's the direction the board's going to go just to make sure I have some comfort level of can we do it number one. Number two, does it increase our liability? I think if we can do it, it almost certainly increases our liability to to act in the way that you're suggesting. But, you know, that's obviously a board decision if I think we can do it under state law, you know. So, I understand the liability and the uniform enforcement. What and honestly,

041I am I'm talking as fast as I'm thinking. So, but what I was envisioning is the burden would be on law enforcement to report to us those citations, those incidences rather than us having to figure out how to go out and research it. So, obviously, it would require a partnership and commitment. number one or number two. Like for example, we get reports of students who have committed felonies and the state has in statutoily required that of the local law enforcement jurisdictions. They have not done that with respect to these types of traffic citations. I would suspect that it would take some sort of state legislation to get that requirement to be in place. I hear what you're saying, but we could by in a local agreement get that a voluntary commitment from law enforcement. You

042could attempt to get that voluntarily voluntary commitment from law enforcement. It will require negotiation with our law enforcement agencies and okay, all the things that are attendant with that. So hypothetically we have two or three agencies that are agreeable to that and to the extent that they notify us can we limit our liability to what we are notified of you can certainly I would certainly make the argument that we would haven't assumed the duty in the other eight jurisdictions in your example in your hypothetical that haven't given us that information because we have they we haven't reached an agreement with them. So, but these are all questions of state law that I don't know that there's an answer in any case or statute, but that's my thought. Okay. And I certainly don't this is a

043f our first discussion on this. I don't by any means think we're going to walk away with solutions or magic pills, but to the extent that board members have suggestions or things like that they'd be interested in pursuing getting more information, this would be the time to start those discussions. So, let me see if I had any Okay, that's my questions and comments at this point in time. member Thanos, you're recognized. Thank you, Madam Chair. I've had many constituents have concerns about this. I've had a constituent who had a scooter crash through her windshield and she was traumatized for months. students in some of my schools were in the hospital after accidents. So, I really I think we need to act. I don't think we can wait for our legislature to act, but I do

044agree with member farant that I don't believe we should be completely and permanently banning things from our schools. but you know, one suggestion I do have is what about if there were requirements for a scooter or bike to like park on our campus? So maybe, you know, in order for you to have the privilege of parking on the campus, you had to complete some kind of training. Your parent had to complete a training. You know, you had to sign an agreement of conduct or, you know, something like that. I don't know. Would something like that work? Or Mr. Pomera, I'm sorry, Dr. Vasquez. I'm going to give you the non-legal response. and our only concern is the additional burden that place at the school level and then the enforcement of that. And so just in

045having preliminary conversations with some of our middle and high school principles, lack of staff to be able to really monitor if they are parking their their bikes and they've completed all of the requirements. certainly we are here to do the will of the board but given all that they already have on their plates and how that time in the morning and in the afternoon is a bit chaotic and they are already strapped for personnel to do supervision. I think it would be a big ask at this time. I mean, I think one of the things we keep coming back to is we all want some common sense safety precautions, but no one actually wants to enforce it. and I'm not I don't say that as a, you know, I think people want to enforce it,

046they just don't still have the time and capacity to be able to do it. So, I think that is a cycle we keep going through. you know, piggybacking piggy back p adding to something that chair chair Jacob said, I think the key is to have something that is easy to enforce. And I do think that we should be paying attention to what's happening in the legislature and if we can get behind a bill, I think that we should be flexible and be ready to support it. You know, one thing and we may not agree on the how, but I do think, you know, if it's something that if you are an ebike or e- scooter, you can only be on there if you are on a bike path. whether it's the part on the road

047that is just for bikes or whether it's the wider paths because I don't think I don't know that's something that's easy to enforce like if you're on the street or you're on a sidewalk, you know, that's not allowed. So, just an idea. I also do support adding something to the code of conduct. and just a reminder that if you if you are a student in our schools, you have access to a bus unless you are within two miles from the school and a two-mile bike ride on a regular old bike is still only 15 minutes. So, just a reminder that you can still ride a bike. Thank you, member Vanos. I've seen a couple out there. Yeah, they still exist. Member Ferrant. Thank you, Madam Chair. I think the discussion really is pretty interesting because

048all of us want to help our kids and families have that autonomy to choose what they would want, but then at the same time trying to figure out what is best and won't harm the ones around us. you know as the for the superintendent a question then would be what have you and your staff discussed it and what do you feel would be something that would be helpful? yes, we've had conversations. Honestly, we believe this is something that we need to have help from our legislators some of our local agencies and I know how strapped they are for personnel and time. But I do think that a change in the law would help us in this arena without taking on more than what we need to. We always speak about what is our main goal

049and yes we are here to make sure our children are safe but we are now crossing what to what I believe is over that line and I agree I don't think we want to prohibit them on our campuses but if we're looking at the conditions that currently exist that's probably the one action we can take that doesn't add more burden to our staff while we are looking at other options. And I believe it was board member Vanos said that you can still ride a bike. and if you haven't been on the road, when a school is coming into session or exiting, it really is quite dangerous. I've been on Narusi at Wednesday dismissal and literally the scooters are on Narusi weaving in and out of traffic and so on the sidewalks as well the those

050that are walking are having to move over and so it is creating a safety hazard that we haven't seen with any other mode of transportation in our schools. So, I appreciate the board's thoughtful discussion on this and I understand that there isn't an easy an easy answer to this problem. There really isn't an easy answer. And even, you know, I just as you're talking made me think of the wheelie shoes. Do we remember those when that was all the craze? Oh my I that's u Yes. I struggle with having my kids on any of the, you know, wheels. They're on their little tricycle and you're like feel like they're going to get hurt. but the wheelies I believe we prohibit those on our school campus or No, Mr. Pomerani. I believe so. I feel like

051that's a I think it's in the code that those are not allowed. and that's on the school campus and I can see why it's a distraction. It's can cause a problem. so definitely something that I want to keep in mind with. So it's HB243, correct? If correct me if I'm wrong. Yes. So HB243 just something to be following and the more we can get kind of the word out to families as well just to remind them to keep the kids safe. In the meantime, I think something that would be helpful then would just be to have staff, whoever's outside monitoring the sidewalks or or what have you. just reminding students, hey, hop off those scooters the same way we do with bikes. We don't allow our kids on their bikes to just like fly into

052school. so just reminding them to hop off, always be careful if you see the kids. but to right now, I don't know that we really have that ability to completely remove them from our I mean, we have the ability, but I don't know if that we're really at that point right now. So just getting that awareness out and you know for the parents and students listen I like I love my scooter and my kids love their scooter but it is really true you've got to be very careful and you've got to be aware and if you know is it even something that we could limit it to the high schools only that we wouldn't allow that in our elementary or middle or something of that nature. Mr. Pomearini. So, I think you could limit it

053by age range. That would be within policy discretion for you all to say, you know, based upon what we're seeing, we don't think it's safe for elementary and middle school kids. But with high school students, we think they're better able to handle that than elementary and middle kids. you know, I would want safety and to weigh in on that to see what kind of issues they've seen and where they've seen them and how they've seen them. So if every one of our problems were in a high school and we said well high schoolers can use it but no elementary and middle that would be a little bit different. But yeah I think you can limit it by level to say this level of of student can ride ebike or motor scooter but these can't. Yeah.

054So things to look into and maybe even just talk with our legislators and see what we can do at the state level as well. but again to parents and families, just educate your kids. If you if your kids are riding those ebikes, just remind them to have that courtesy. Same way if your kid is on a bicycle and they're going by somebody that is walking, you ring your little bell or you let them know that you're there. so that we're not, you know, our kids aren't out being a hazard in the community. But thank you, member FR. Thank you. And that was an excellent suggestion. So, Mr. Pomearini, you'll look into that. it certainly makes sense that if most of our high schoolers are allowed to drive that they there's already an understanding that there's

055a level of maturity and brain development, etc. that would accompany that, right? it I am seeing elementary and middle schoolers on a regular basis. I it is amazing how rapidly ebikes have have I want to use the word exploded but not literally. one one thought I have in terms of other entities that could help support legislative changes would be obviously law enforcement. I think from a political standpoint they would certainly have I hate to admit it but a lot more clout than the school district would. And again, I think that equating an ebike with a regular bicycle in terms of how they are allowed to utilize public spaces may have made sense initially, but now watching how they're used very very different than a typical bike in too many instances. So I really think it

056there is a need to limit the spaces where they can use them. And as I think member Felder pointed out, it's it's not just the people on the bike, it's the pedestrians that are sharing that space. And it's not just whether or not a battery explodes, it's it's whether or not a child on an ebike runs into you. So, all very very good first round of discussions. I wish I could say that we had a better solution, but it is going to be very hard to regulate and so much of it takes place outside of our campus. Mr. Pomearini, you've got a couple things you're going to look into. And then I'm going to go I think back to member Front. Member France, you want to Okay, go ahead. Really quick, one last thing I

057was going to say is do we know are these bikes usually or is this even something we can talk about in public, but are they usually stored in the school or is it out in the bike rack? I don't have any issue with that level of discussion occurring. May I? Yeah, most of them are actually I would say the probably almost all of them are stored on campus. some may be, you know, adjacent to the bike rack or some area outside of the of the building, but on our property. Okay. But not like inside of the building. I know a lot of those bikes. I'm not aware of any school that has any of them inside the building. The fire marshall wouldn't allow that. Okay, perfect. Thank you. All right. Thank you. All right, general

058counsel. I'm ringing in again for member Salamanca. Thank you, Member Salamanca. You're recognized. Thank you, chair. Yeah, I would be very supportive of exploring elementary middle school separately. I think the American Pediatric Society says no. They don't recommend that anyone under the age of 16 rides electric scooters or bikes. So, there there's also research as to why that's not particularly safe before a certain age. So I would be willing to kind of look at the younger grades and enforce it more as a more total ban for some of these schools. I do share though, I think this was brought up earlier, a concern on the biggest thing I have seen at the high school level again is students who've just gotten their licenses are learning to to drive safely and they are near scooters of

059elementary, middle school, and even nth grade students who don't have their licenses. And you know, I don't not not specific to OCPS data, but I'm seeing it across as a trend that it's mostly scooter versus car and it's happening a lot in more of our suburbs out there. And so I do think that it's still an issue at the high school level and I do think it's still very different high school poor high school. So I don't know. Superintendent Vasquez if we could talk to our principles about maybe some of them have more appetite than others on a school by school approach or how we would feel about that because I don't think it's all schools. Dr. Vasquez, we certainly can have a more explicit conversation with our secondary principles. and we do have some

060schools that have been able to manage the scooters on their campus and you are correct that the number of scooters varies vastly from area to area. So that is one of the action items that we'll take away that we will convene our middle and high school principles. We actually, I believe, have a principal meeting in January with all of them and so we can add that to the agenda. Mr. Martinez, one of your first duties as deputy superintendent. Hm. Yeah, that would be really helpful because I'm obviously very much in support of the legislature working with localities on this. But my biggest issue is still, you know, the sheriff's office is likely going to prioritize other things over enforcement of scooter violations. And so even if we have some of that, I still worry that

061the consequences of this are mostly being felt at the neighborhood and school level. and one of the things that we are seeing obviously and the new prototypes of buildings of schools is we have elementary schools next to middle schools, right? I have middle school and high school very near each other in my area. And it's actually that intersection of older students, younger students, all on the road at the same time that is causing a lot of collisions. All right. Thank you, member Salamanca. let me ask also for the team, Dr. Vasquez if they could do a little bit more research into some of the issues we've raised more to the extent that you have data on how these accidents are occurring. How many of them are bike versus car, bike versus pedestrian? and there were

062a couple of other questions. Oh, law enforcement whether they're in enforcing I agree with member Salamanca. they have a lot of things to deal with. And unfortunately, I think this probably does not rise to the level it where it gets the attention it needs until we have several very very serious accidents. and that's unfortunate, but I would be interested in in seeing how seriously they're taking this. and I think that's all we have on this at this point in time. Any last thoughts? If not, we're going to move on to our next item. Joe, Mr. Mr. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. All right, Dr. Basquez, back to you. thank you. As we are transitioning, allow me to do a brief introduction into the next segment of our work session. our next presentation is focused on

063the state school of hope initiative and the growing possibility of charter collocation on district campuses. So, a little bit of background and you'll hear a lot more detail in the presentation this afternoon, but the legislature created Schools of Hope to expand educational choice and accelerate improvement in communities served by persistently low performing schools. We fully support expanding opportunities for students and Orange County Public Schools has a strong record of doing exactly that through magnetsmies, language programs, and innovative redesigns of our traditional schools. However, while the state frames this law as an expansion of choice, it's important to understand that it expands choice for external charter operators while limiting our district's ability to expand choice within our own schools. It appears that the playing field is not even. Let me outline just a couple of major

064issues that you'll hear about. First, the district faces greater restrictions and longer timelines when we want to redesign a school or launch a new choice program. While the schools of hope operators can enter communities quickly and with far broader flexibility. Second, collocation presents significant, and I'm going to say that again, significant operational challenges. Sharing a facility affects schedules, safety procedures, traffic flow, and school culture. It creates uncertainty for the district school staffing and enrollment even as the district continues to carry responsibility for facility, utilities, and student services. Thirdly, and the one that really is at the heart of a lot of constrnation is that it really raises issues of access. District schools must serve every student, including our students with unique abilities, our second language learners, and students with high support needs. When two governance

065models operate under one roof with different enrollment practices and support systems, ensuring access for all children becomes more complicated. Fourth, there are financial and long-term planning impacts. Funding follows students, so enrollment shifts to a colllocated charter reduce district resources while fixed costs remain. This limits the district's program offerings, affects staff stability, and complicates decisions about capital investments, boundaries, and future district created choice programs. And finally, neighborhood schools are community anchors. Collocation can fragment a school's identity, divide parent organizations, and create confusion about who's accountable for the overall campus experience. As you listen to today's presentation, I hope you will ponder the impact collocation and schools of hope has not just in the immediate future, but looking ahead and what that means for our children, our offerings, and our school district. With that, I am going

066to turn it over to Greg Moody, who's the executive leader for school choice, and he will introduce Dr. Kia Scott. Good afternoon. Thank you, Madam Superintendent. I will turn this over to Dr. Kia Scott with School Choice to go over to walk us through this presentation today on schools of hope. Dr. Scott, thank you. Good afternoon. Here we go. Good afternoon, Madame Chair, members of the board, and superintendent Vazquez. Thank you for the opportunity to present a review of the statutory language as well as the emerging concerns and challenges associated with the Florida School of Hope program. This presentation will provide a brief overview of the legislation's key provisions, outline potential implications for district operations and facility use, and highlight areas where additional clarity or state guidance may be needed to ensure equitable and effective

067implementation. We're going to talk about schools of hope and we're going to look at schools of hope as a hobo operator and target for the schools of hope. A school of hope is a specific type of charter school that is designated to serve students from one or more persistently low performing schools. It is located in an attendance zone of a persistently low performing school or within a fivemile radius of such school whichever is greater and is title one eligible. A hope operator is a designation given to a nonprofit organization that one operates three or more charter schools, two serves students in grades K through 12 or three has a record of serving students from lowincome families. There are seven designated hope operators in the state of Florida. Matter Academy, they have five schools of hope

068and they are all in operation in Miami Day County. Renaissance Warrington Prep Academy has one school that's located in Escambia County. Idea Public Schools has six schools of hope in operation. Three in Duval County, one in Pulk County, and two in Hillsboro County. Kip team and family has one school of hope operating now and that is located in Miami day county. The remaining three hope operators which are RCMA, Democracy Prep and Success Academy do not operate any schools of hope in Florida. Hope operators target persistently low performing schools as designated by FDOE pursuant to law or an area identified as a qualified opportunity zone. Persistently low performing schools. They are defined as a public school that has earned three grades lower than a C in at least three of the five previous years and has

069not earned a grade of B or higher in the most recent two years. Senate bill Senate Bill 2510 expanded persistently low performing criteria to include a public school that falls within the bottom 10% in at least two of the previous three years for student performance on the endofear administration of the coordinated screening and progress monitoring system for grade three English language arts or grade four mathematics as prescribed in section section 108.22 3A2 Florida statutes persistently low performing schools. The Florida Department of Education released a 2025 list of persistently low performing schools in the fall of 2025. The list includes the following eight Orange County schools. Eagles Nest Elementary, Eckleston Elementary, OCPS Academic Center for Excellence, Phyllis Wheatley Elementary, Pinelock Elementary, Rolling Hills Elementary, Sadler Elementary, and Weguard Elementary. The list may change from year to

070year depending on updated performance data and state criteria. Florida opportunity zones. Schools of hope may also be established within a Florida opportunity zone. An opportunity zone is a designated area that offers federal tax incentives to encourage investors to reinvest in lowincome communities located within the qualified census track. In Orange County, there are 24 designated opportunity zones, 12 of which are located within the city of Orlando. These the areas may present additional site options for establishing a school of hope. This map depicts the opportunity zones located within the city of Orlando. They are Colonial Town South, Executive Airport, Greater Washington Shores, Holden Heights, Lacasta, Lake Sunset, Mercy Drive, the Packing District, Rosemont, Sodto District, South Paramore, and West Colonial. This map illustrates the opportunity zones located within Orange County. The letters on the map correspond to

071the following areas. Letter A represents Apakka. Letter B represents Eatenville. C represents Fair View Shores. D would be Good Homes Hayawasi. E would be Pine Hills. And there are six census tracks there for letter E. F, South Golden Rod, and G, Union Park. It's important to note that in addition to targeting the area within the five mile radius of a persistently low performing or within an identified opportunity zone, a school of hope may be located outside of a Florida opportunity zone or persistently low performing school attendance zone in the nearest suitable, underused, vacant, or surplus facility. If the district does not have such a facility available for the hope operator to use within that Florida opportunity zone or persistently low performing school attendance zone application and contracting process. I'll take a few minutes to outline

072the application and contracting process of a school of hope in comparison to a traditional charter school. Under this statute, a school of hope operator must simultaneously submit a notice of intent NOI and a performance-based agreement PBA to the sponsor. The notice of intent is submitted in lie of a traditional charter application. The performance-based agreement serves in place of the standard charter contract. Upon receipt, the sponsor must notify both the Florida Department of Education and the HOPE operator. The sponsor is required to review the NOI and the PBA to ensure that all sections are and responses are completed. The district has 60 days from receipt to execute the performance contract. If the district denies the performance performance-based contract and the hope operator appeals that decision, the commissioner of education shall appoint a special magistrate. This special

073magistrate shall hold hearings to determine the facts relating to the dispute and render a recommended decision for the resolution to the state board of education. Unlike a traditional charter application, this process does not include a formal review, a capacity interview, or an evaluation process. If the district fails to meet the 60-day deadline, the administrative fee withheld for all charter schools in the district is reduced to 1% until that contract is executed. And this loss cannot be recovered or reimbursed. This statutory language represents a significant departure from traditional charter school procedures. For comparison, a traditional charter school submits a full application. The sponsor has 90 days to approve or deny unless an extension is granted. There is a formal application review, a capacity interview, and an evaluation of the application. If the district denies the application,

074the applicant may appeal the decision. The commissioner of edge shall convene a meeting of the charter school appeal commission to study and make a recommendation to the state board of education. Once approved, the district must provide a draft contract within 30 days and has an additional 40 days to finalize execution facilities traditional charter section 102.33e Florida statutes. Charter schools historically allowed charter school operators to use any underutilized space within a school district. The statute specifies if a school district board facility or property is available because it is surplus, marked for disposal, or otherwise unused, it must be made available to a charter school on the same basis as it is offered to other public schools in the district. Each school district is required to report annually to the Florida Department of Education as part of

075its five-year work plan the number of existing vacant classrooms that the district has. By February 1 of each year, school districts must provide the department with the following information pertaining to their underused, vacant, or surplus facilities. Number one, they must provide the number of classrooms, student stations, and administrative spaces. Number two, the number of full-time equivalent students. Number three, information such as size and capacity for shared spaces such as gym, the cafeteria, and auditorium. And four, any other available information regarding the school building usage. Based on this report, the Department of Education may recommend that the district make such space available to an appropriate charter school facilities for hope operator. This statute governs the hope operator specifies the following. A hope operator establishing a school of hope may use any add educational facility at no

076cost. Collocation FL DOE rule 6A 1.0998271 requires a district to allow a school of hope to use underused, vacant, or surplus facilities upon request. A hope operator that intends to submit a school of hope notice of intent and locate a school of hope in an underused, vacant, or surplus facility shall submit a letter. the School of Hope building notice to the superintendent of the district where the facility is located at least one year and no more than two years prior to the planned opening of the School of Hope. The letter shall include the following. A the underused, vacant, or surplus facility along with proposed alternatives at the Hope operator's discretion at which the hope operator wishes to locate the school. B. a projected School of Hope enrollment for such facility. And C, at the election

077of the Hope operator, a preliminary proposal for space allocation within the building, taking into consideration the projected School of Hope seats. The building notice may be submitted prior to the submission of a notice of intent. The district has 20 calendar days from the date of submission to provide a written objection to a school of hope building notice. Such written objection may propose an alternate facility for consideration by the hope operator taking into consideration the projected school of hope's enrollment in proximity to the student population of the hope provider that it seeks to serve. The hope operator is not required to accept the alternate facility without objection during 20 calendar days from the date of submission, the choice is then final. A district may only object to a school of hope building notice due to material

078impracticability. Should two hope operators submit school of hope building notices for the same space, the department shall award the space to the first hope operator to submit their building notice. A school of hope building notice must not request a facility in which the projected School of Hope enrollment exceeds the excess seats set forth in the most recent public reporting published by the department. Pursuant to 10002.3339 C throughD Florida statutes, the school district must permit a school of hope to have the practical and effective use of all or part of an educational facility at no cost which includes both the ability to occupy space and operate within the facility to receive facilities related services except as expressly provided in this rule. Further, students enrolled in the school of hope shall be included in the district's total

079capital outlay full-time equivalent membership and for calculating any other maintenance funds for that facility. Collocation process. When a school of hope will share space with an existing school, the parties must develop a shared facility plan and a mutual management plan. The shared facility plan must be finalized within 30 calendar days after the facility choice is confirmed. Both the district and school of hope must agree to the plan. Required components of the shared facility plan include classroom, common spaces, and administrative space allocations. Classroom space, administrative space, and storage space, including student lockers in the facility must be allocated proportionately based on projected School of Hope enrollment and taking room size into consideration. The district district must ensure that all schools in a building can operate in contiguous space. To the extent this requires that an existing

080school consolidate its operation, it must do so within 7 days of the end of the prior school year. All common indoor and outdoor space at a facility such as cafeterias, gymnasiums, recreational areas, parking lots, storage spaces, and auditoriums without limitation must be shared proportionately based on a total full-time equivalent student enrollment. When it is necessary to schedule use of a space, space shall be scheduled proportionately, such as by allowing each school to have proportional access to a cafeteria during traditional lunch hours. Mutual management plan 30 days 30 calendar days after the choice of underused, vacant or surplus facility is final. The hope operator and district must agree on a mutual management plan renewable annually and subject to amendment no later than 60 calendar days calendar days before expiration of the annual term. The mutual management

081plan shall ensure that the space to be used by the school of hope complies with all safety and other requirements and is maintained as other facilities in the district and as necessary to meet the electrical needs of the school of hope. District maintenance of space used by the school of hope must be performed as timely as with much care as other district spaces. If the district fails to provide space in this condition, it will reimburse the hope operator for fees incurred for such maintenance and ensure building access for any workers providing such services. The services to be included. Section 6A 5A specifies that any facility related services provided to district schools must also be made available to a colllocated school of hope upon request. These services include without limitation custodial services, maintenance services, school safety

082services, nursing and health services, student transportation services, food and nutrition services. These services must be provided on all instructional days when the school of hope is open. DO DOE rule further states if a school of hope chooses to receive school safety and/or transportation services from the district, the school of hope must remit to the district the full amount of any state allocation specifically designated for those services. Questions? As we enter this new era of state educational choice, we are confronted with more questions than answers. Among the most pressing considerations are the following. Definition of underused. What constitutes an underused facility? Is there a defined threshold of enrollment or capacity utilization that determines this status? Adequacy of funding. Will the allocation of capital funds and reimbursement for services be sufficient to cover the actual costs incurred?

083Shared use of facilities. How will two schools effectively share common spaces within a single building? Allocation of specialized spaces. What does a proportionate and contiguous allocation of space look like in facilities with limited specialized areas such as administrative offices, conference rooms, and interior instructional spaces? Impact on district planning. Will the colllocation of schools constrain the district's ability to adjust attendance zones in response to future enrollment growth? What will transporting colllocated School of Hope students look like? A school of hope may be located outside of a Florida opportunity zone or a fivemile area of persistently low performing school in the nearest suitable underused vacant or surplus facility. if the district does not have such a facility available for the hope operator to use in the fivem area or opportunity zone. These questions underscore the complexity of

084implementing educational choice within the existing district facilities and highlights the need for clear guidance, equitable funding mechanisms, and thoughtful long-term planning. Current laws lack clear mechanisms for how these and many more questions will be answered. Without additional legislative or regulatory direction, districts are left to interpret broad policy mandates without consistent standards or sufficient resources. Timely and comprehensive state guidance will be essential to ensure that implementation is equitable, fiscally responsible, and aligned with the long-term educational needs of all students. Madame Chair, members of the board, and superintendent, thank you for the opportunity to review the statutes, implications, and challenges surrounding the schools of hope. I'll turn it back over to Superintendent Vazquez for comments. Kia, thank you so much for a very thorough and detailed presentation. So, one might ask, well, why why are we here?

085first and foremost, we really need to educate our community, our public on the impact the schools of hope and collocation is having on our district. Additionally, we did receive several letters right on point. I guess this time they got the date right from Matter Somerset and from Bridge Prep asking to colllocate in several of our schools. And I'm going to ask our de our council to share with you just the outcome. We have denied both Somerset and Bridge Prep because they are not authorized School of Hope operators. But the remaining eight letters we did deny and I'll let our general counsel give the details to that and then we'll turn it over to the board for discussion. Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the board. as the superintendent stated with respect to Bridge Prep and

086Somerset, they are not hope operators. Somerset was going to be on the state board of education's agenda last week to become a hope operator. That was withdrawn by the state board of education. So, they were denied and bridge Prep is denied because you have to be a HOPE operator in order to utilize this collocation provision. We received eight letters from Matter. We actually received nine. One was for Neo City, which was in Oyola County. so that one was denied because it's not here. the schools that we received it for were Bonavville Elementary, Hungerford Elementary, Rock Lake Elementary, Washington Shores Elementary, the old Clarona Elementary, and I'll explain what I mean by the old in a second. Ivy Lane Elementary, the old Pine Castle Elementary, I'll give that explanation in a second, and the Washington Shores

087Primary Learning Center. So, with respect to the old Clarona and the old Pine Castle buildings, those are buildings that we no longer are utilizing. Clar Kona has now become Prairie Lake Elementary, Pine Castle has gone to Persing, K8 School. Both of those schools have we are going to demolish them because we no longer use the buildings. We have applied to DOE those buildings. I you under state law you have to do so I believe if they're less than 50 years old and get DOE sign off on demolishing those buildings. DOE has signed off on demolishing both of those buildings. Bonavville we have denied because it is not within an opportunity zone. It's not a persistently low performing school and it's not within five miles of either one of those types of zones. So, we denied

088that. with respect to Hungerford, Ivy Lane, Rock Lake, and Washington Shore elementary schools, we got notices and we got proposed enrollments. And when you took the proposed enrollment of the of the school of hope that we got and you added it to what our 5-year projected enrollment at that school would at those schools would be, our student population, if you added our student population and the school of hope proposed population, it would exceed the what we know as fish capacity, the Florida inventory of school houses. So we denied that as materially impracticable based upon exceeding the fish capacity. And then with finally with respect to Washington shores primary learning center as you all know we have that primary learning center but we have also now located our expecting excellence academy you may have known it

089as beta we have now put that over in the primary learning center and when you take the combined student population at the primary learning center plus expecting excellence academy and add it to what the school of hope proposes to enroll it once again exceeds fish capacity. So, we denied it as materially impracticable. so those are the reasons for denial for the eight from MOD. Like I said, Somerset, it's Somerset and MO are both associated with Academica. Somerset applied for the same eight schools. So, we denied them because they're not a hope operator. Madame Chair, board member Gallo has joined and when you begin to take speakers, she does want to speak. Sorry about that. Thank you. the board is lit up, not surprisingly. I have one question. I think every every other question I'm going

090to ask probably will be asked by other board members. But so you have your five mile radius and you have your school that qual that qualifies has no capacity but you have another school that's within the five miles that has capacity but it's an A or B school doesn't matter they can colllocate there the students that can attend that school what students can attend that If they if the school that they are targeting does not have the location the space for them, they are able to target or lollocate within a school within that 5 mile radius. Right. I understand the school might locate three miles out at another school. What students are allowed to participate? Is it the students in the original target area? Is it any students? What students are allowed? The purpose is

091to is to target those students. But I understand there's no there's nothing to say that other students cannot. Okay. So if if the underperforming school has capacity, what students can the school of hope I want to use the term recruit? What students are eligible to go to that school? Theoretically, all students are eligible to go whether they are in that location or not. That's what I thought. Okay. So, they could be highly performing students that would go. Correct. But it's probably unlikely that parents of highly performing students are going to send their student to a low performing school if they're already zoned for a higher performing school. But if a parent in a highly performing school wants to send them to another highly performing school, but there's no capacity, but it's a school of hope,

092then that school of hope could theoretically be filled up with high performing students potentially. Yes. Okay. And then we're going to judge and see how well they did within five years of lifting what? Which school are they lifting from a C to an A? Do we have any idea? Are we talking about the school that they're actually not in? Are we talking about the school that they're in, which was already an A or a B school? Do we do are there I couldn't find the answers in the statute how that's supposed to work. Correct. That is the problem is the ambiguity in the legislation because it allows for so much interpretation and very few guidelines. And so everything that you said is possible. They could colllocate in a school that is within that five mile

093radius that may not may be a very high performing school and they can attract students not just from that opportunity zone, they could attract from other areas across the district. And so it does create a a situation where people are interpreting the legislation and we are not all interpreting it the same way. Okay. Thank you. I'll I'll save the rest of my questions till later. I just trying to understand how how the intent is going to be demonstrated in reality based on language. So, let's go to Member Bird. Thank you, Chair, because now you just added another question to my list. along those same lines, if they open their school of hope, let's say four miles from the low performing school, and students from that low performing school want to go to the school of

094hope, we are required to provide transportation if they colllocate within one of our schools. Yes. What's not clear is if they use an a vacant facility, which I don't believe we have any this, it's not clear as to what's supposed to happen then because there there are no students there. We're not transporting students currently in that instance. But if they are colllocating within one of our district schools, yes, they are going to be required to provide transportation. So, so that begs the question, too. So I'm four miles away from the target school, right? we transport two miles out, but we have a geographical attendance zone of from which we transport. So what would statue or what would DOE say about how far out we have to go to travel? I think that's what you're getting

095at is how far out, right? How far out do we have to and what expense do we have to absorb to transport? So those are things exactly those are things questions that remain unanswered and clear as mud. Yep. Okay. So that's a problem. A major problem. the other problem with the costs are okay so that list that you had of all the different areas that we have to help pay for there custodial maintenance school safety nursing transportation and food. So, a school, an elementary school that currently has 400 or 500 kids, they have space. now the charter comes in and they now there are 700 kids at that school. We now have to hire more custodial workers, more food service workers, more possibly another nursing person, pay for more maintenance. school safety, we would have

096one SRO anyway. So that wouldn't necessarily be affected, but all those additional staff members we have to hire, we have to pay for out of our operating budget, but the charter school gets to keep all of their FTE for all of their students and they do not have to contribute any of that FTE to pay for any of those additional costs that we now have to pay for for their students. Correct. Correct. Okay. that's another problem. the building, the maintenance of buildings. when we have if we were to have an a vacant building or any school district in the state for that matter has a vacant building and a school of hope moves into it and it now says that the school district is responsible for the maintenance of that building. Is it does that

097still hold true for a vacant building? like would we have to normally when a charter school opens we don't have anything to do with their buildings right so in this case with a school of hope would this building stay on our you know comprehensive renovation would we be responsible for taking care of upkeep of that building yes okay that's great oh and the hits just keep on coming okay. Let me come back up here to my beginning. Oh, here's a good one. The calendars, the school calendars. We have to also provide all these services when the school of hope is open. So besides the costs, which are a huge problem, now we've also got half of the staff that have been hired to help serve these kids are going to have to be working on

098possibly a different school calendar because the school of hope may have they have a different governing board. They don't we're not their school board. They have a different administration. So they may have a totally different school calendar. These are all kind of nightmare scenarios that are playing through right in my head. So the school of hope that's on the same building is open different days when Orange School is closed. Now these staff members have to work those days. Has there been any any addressing who who is their boss? Who is the custodian's boss? Is it OCPS? Is it the charter school? because now they're reporting to this principal, this other administrator, who's employing them. have we had any discussions about unions, how that works? Because most charters don't have unions for their employees, but I

099guess there are employees. It's so confusing. I don't even know what's going on. and okay, wait, no, that was it. That was it on that. the calendar the school calendars that has that been addressed at all? So you raised an interesting point member Bird that so so schools of hope are known for extended calendars right they some of them offer extended learning opportunities so it would be reasonable to suspect that if a school of hope colllocated they would have a different calendar than ours may extend a little bit in the summer they may extend through some of our breaks that we traditionally don't have class. So, yeah, that would be reasonable to expect. And then how are we going to pay our employees or do we pay them overtime? Our employees have a contract, right,

100that tells them they have so many days off for holidays and such. We kind of outline when they work and when their vacations may be and the hours and the and the days. So that would have to be something that we hammer out the details in that mutual management plan that we spoke of and it would be a challenge for sure and a financial burden. the company that we have that you have the eight offers from they already have schools in our district. Matter has schools in our district but they're not schools of hope. Okay. Okay. We do have schools of hope in our district. Not yet. We have one approved. Kip. We have one approved, but it hasn't opened. Okay. Yeah. If we recall, we approved this board approved few weeks ago. Kimp. Yep.

101That's right. and I think Mr. Pomerini answered this question. there is with the space with the expected growth because that was my thinking and a school may have room now but if we have it in our plan in 5 years that that growth will be too much I love that I love that's why we denied them but I am seriously concerned that's that they could easily come back and say well your growth projections are not correct or That's not that's not what it is now. I mean, there's space in this school. So, and my concern here is within my five mile of in my district is a school that I know is going to be expecting huge growth that we've per purposely reserved seats in that school for those new developments that are coming in.

102And so my concern there is if we let in a school like that and then we end up being overcrowded, that would be a whole another concern. Dr. Basquez, may I? So I do believe that when presented with a reasonable argument and the appropriate data, the state, you know, will recognize that we have a case to deny. I believe Matter has on their they've actually put out a statement on their website addressing the number the extraordinary large number of letters that they've put out that they will resend any letters that don't meet their needs. we also do have plans to look at all of our spaces, all of our schools that have spaces. Remember Ben Allen has been tasked with taking a look at that from a strategic point of view. He is actually presenting

103to our cabinet on the Monday we get back from Thanksgiving. And so we will be coming back to the board with additional strategies we are using to maximize the use of our facilities while expanding school choice to our families. Thank you. okay. And then the very last question I have was are we allowed to limit the amount of space we give them if we approve them for like 300 a 300 seat school. Could they keep coming back and adding more seats or is it like that is it? Is there going to be a contract that says you are only able to accept 300? Do we know that or do we not know that Palmer? It's sort of in the mushy middle of okay negotiate this agreement with them and you know that's going to be

104part of the things that we're going to be talking with them about. It's this is you know normally when we have a charter school they come in and say we expect to grow to this particular area right and that's this is a little bit different here because we have them saying we see that today you have I'm just making up a number here 300 unused seats within your school. We want to have those 300, right? And so remember, if there's a dispute about whether or not we have space, there is a dispute resolution mechanism within the rule that talks about appointment of a special magistrate who makes a recommendation to the state board of education who will then issue a final decision, etc., etc. So some of this will be if there is truly a

105dispute then we're going to present our evidence of yeah we expect to we may have 300 seats but we expect to take all 300 of them up through growth in a particular neighborhood or you know we're not taking up all 300 but you know we're going to take up 150 so your 300 seat school would not work here because we have to have the ability to have to serve the 150 kids that we have coming into that school It's sort of it is just looking at this rule and looking at the statute, it is hard for me to to give you any certainty as to what the parameters are and how the state board's going to look at it, how a magistrate is going to look at it. It is it leaves a lot of

106room for interpretation and a lot of room for argument if we eventually get there. I'm hoping we don't get there. I'm hoping that you know matter has said we're not going to do all of these schools or near all of these schools and if there's a issue they'll pull back but there's a lot of room to to talk about these things. Okay. Thank you. I'll go ahead and let my other board members pipe in because I can see everybody's queued up to speak. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Vice Chair Salamanca, you're recognized. Is she on? Okay, let's go to member Front. Thank you, Madam Chair. This is definitely a interesting discussion and something that I've been really digging into the last month. As you know, I'm huge proponent of school choice. I think allowing parents to

107decide what's best for their kids and go to the school that they think is going to be best suited for their child is amazing. but when I'm reading the statute and talking with other school board members throughout the state, it's it just is very concerning what is what we're seeing as like the logistics on the ground. I really believe in my heart that when this was passed, it was passed with the intention that there are schools and areas that need help. There's students that are not being served in the right way and really kind of being failed by their local school in a sense that they're just kind of slipping through the cracks and not doing well. And so I believe that the state really had the intentions of saying, "Hey, what can we do?

108How can we partner with the schools or how can we utilize these spaces?" but the issue that I see is there's a lot of issues. you know just some of the questions that I had written to the state board. One of my biggest concerns is that we haven't defined there's like a lot of things that are not defined well but underused. And when they say underused, what exactly does that mean? Does it mean there's a 100 seats available? Does it mean there's 50? Is it at half capacity? what exactly do they mean by underused schools? And so looking at your questions that you had put up, it's your number one question. Literally my one of my number one questions is exactly how are you defining underused? because if a school has say they even have

10920 seats available, is that underused? Can they use those 20 seats and they get in there and they have their foot in the door? Those are the things that a lot of questions in that regard. another one is just the funding. you know, if we're allowing them to come in, they use our facilities, like member Bird said, we're now having to add additional workers, the custodial maintenance, nursing services, potentially food services that now is on us. And we've already created that budget for the year, which is already spread quite thin, trying to get it be frugal with our spending. And if now we have an additional expense, how are we how are we like kind of foreseeing what we're going to need to spend if you will? My biggest concern really as a board member

110is the funding aspect. How do we fund this? And from what I'm seeing, it does appear that the schools of hope would be double dipping, if you will. they're gaining the FTE for the student and they get charter funds from the district but then the district is paying for all the different aspects. a lot of concerns, but I think this is where as a school board, I really hope that all of us can continue just knocking at the door of our legislators, the state board of education, the governor's office, asking them, could you please clarify because at the, you know, in the bottom line is, I mean, I know I'm here to make sure that every kid gets an awesome education. I want to make sure every kid is if they're struggling with reading that

111somebody is there to help them with reading. If they're struggling with math, somebody is there helping them with math. That we're helping train our teachers in a way and give them the tools that they need to teach our students and especially in areas where there might be a deeper struggle. and so I mean really something I'm sure we don't really want to think about is we're in this predicament because we have schools that are not servicing our kids in the way that they should. That's the predicament we're in. We're in the predicament because students are struggling. they're they're not getting the services that they need in certain schools for whatever reason. And so, as a district, we really have to step up our game. And maybe that was the point of this was to really

112push us to step up our game. We have to We should be We should be the best in the nation. We should I mean, that's my goal. Be the best in the nation. Make sure our kids are soaring and reading. when I got on the board, our literacy rate was below 50%. And now we are we are moving forward. We're getting better with that with that science of reading and helping, you know, really train our teachers and help them have the tools that they need. But I mean that's another aspect of it is we really have to step up our game as a district so we're not in this predicament. But also talk with the state and ask them to really clarify for me it's the underused. How are they defining underused? And then as

113far as the payments, are we allowed to charge at all for any I know I believe there was something in there with they can reim we can ask for reimbursement for busing. Is that correct? Yeah. So madam chair may I please Mr. Palmer? So there are two categories in there that if they come to us for transportation and school safety that if they want us to do that they have to give their entire allocation that they get from the state for that purpose. Now the issue there of course is does that cover the cost of transportation that we would incur and does that cover the cost of school safety that we incur? Probably not. So we would probably still be subsidizing the school of hope even if we get all of this. to your question

114about what is underused member ferrant. So they do have a definition in there and it is extremely broad. So under the rule an underused vacant or surplus facility means an entire facility or portion thereof that is not fully used or is irregularly or intermittently used by the district for instructional or program use. And then they go and define fully used. Fully used means a facility that does not have unused student stations. So they probably didn't intend this, but if you read that the way it's stated, if we have two unused student stations, we are underutilizing or underusing the facility. Now, will a school of hope want to locate in a school that has two student stations available? No. But that's the rule is extremely broadly written that if we have any unused student station whatsoever,

115it is an underused facility. Thank you. I think you know as we look at all of it, it really we all have tons of questions. I'll let the fellow board members as well ask questions, but there's a lot of questions, not a lot of answers. and so hoping we can get those answers from the state, but ultimately really wanting to see our schools thriving and helping our communities. Thank you. Thank you, Member F. Member Vanos. Thank you, Madam Chair. the last time we talked about the hope operators, Dr. Scott, you said that the average grade of the students in the state of Florida who were in these Hope schools, it was like an average of a C grade. Is that still correct? I can give, if you would like, I have them from for all

116of the hope operators. We can't hear you. If you would like, I do have the grades for all of the schools of hope that are currently operating. Sure. These would be for Miami. They have kit Miami right now. in 2022 they had received a grade of an F. 23 went to a C. 24 a C 25 a C. Matter Kowanis in 2023 they had an A and they had an A for 23 24 and 25. Matter Bickl Academy, they opened in 2023. 2223 and they've had an A ever since. Matter Brick Academy High School has been open since 223. They've had all A's. Matter Tech and Matter Innovation Academy, they opened in 2324. They had a in 24 and a C in 25. Matter Academy Sole Mia, they have not received a grade yet. This

117is their first year in operation. IDEA public schools. Idea Basset is in Duval County. They've had they received a C this year, a C the prior year, and a C prior year before that. IDEA River Bluff, they were a C, they had a B in 24 and an A in 23. Idea Victory has had a C-grade. the year before a D and they opened with a C. Idea Hope in Hillsboro currently a C and the two years prior there were D's. IDEA Lakeland is in Pulk County they are current C and idea Compass in Duvall has not been graded yet. So I and can you remind me so in Orange County we've actually not had any schools this past year that were below a C. All of ours were A, B, and C. All the

118district schools were A, B, and C. All of our traditional public schools were in A, B, or C. Yes. Interesting. So, I don't feel as though the hope operators are actually improving student outcomes for the most part. They're they sound either equal or worse than district schools in terms of letter grade, but thank you. You're welcome. quick question. So, I mean, I don't even know where to start with this hastily and poorly written rule and law, but let me just start with an overall question. Can hope operators colllocate in charter schools? Mr. I have to check that. I haven't even looked at that. I don't know that they can, but let me check. Give me a second. By the time you circle around with your questions, I'll have your answer. Thank you, Mr. Palmer. Thank

119you. so I my understanding is that if we have a vacant school or a school that is not being used, the hope operator can come in and we have to pay for all of the basically everything, all the services. what happens if we come to the conclusion that it is financially unsustainable for a school district to pay for the school of hope in a building and the school decides to sell the school are we allowed to do that defer to general counsel Mr. accommodating. So you're talking about if it's our traditional building, if it's our building and we just decide that we can't operate it anymore financially, we need to close it, right? We have that agreement that we enter into, but I think ultimately I would argue and there is no answer in the

120in the rule or the statute for this. I would argue that constitutionally we have the right to control, operate, and supervise and to make decisions about what schools we're going to have open and what schools we are not going to have open. So I don't think it would prevent us from closing a school. Now, you know, they may ask us, they being the state, the department of education, hey, is there another facility in which this school could colllocate? But that's way down the line. But I don't think it asserts your constitutional authority to close a school if the board thinks it's in its best interest and financially it's unable to sustain it anymore. Thank you. And actually I just want to ask you another question about those words you just said from the Florida Constitution.

121which article 9 section says that the school board shall operate, control and supervise all free public schools within the school district. And the state board of education does have some powers too in section two of the constitution. it has the it has such supervision of the system of free public education as provided by law. So I don't understand how legally h how are how is the school board of education allowed to operate really operate and control our public schools within our school district when the Florida Constitution gives us that specific power. So your arguments were raised probably 10 or 15 years ago now. And you know the argument was you are the state board was overriding school districts and forcing them to open charter schools when the school district didn't want to do it. and

122school districts raised the constitutional argument that under article 9 section 4B of the Florida constitution we control operate and supervise and the state board's not empowered to override that decision and the courts said oh no the state board has the role of supervision over the system of public education in the state of Florida so they can in fact override a local school district's decision on whether or not to approve and open in a charter school. And the cases used to say things like, well, just because you are being forced to open a charter school, that doesn't mean the school district loses control because they still get to negotiate a charter contract and they still get to make a decision on whether or not to close. Well, subsequent to those cases saying that we now have

123to utilize the standard charter contract and if we don't, we're violating the flexibility intended charters. And now with respect to closing a charter school, we have to have clear and convincing evidence. And if we don't have clear and convincing evidence to close a charter school, then we have to pay the charter schools attorney's fees if we close them in violation of what the state rules are. So the courts have taken your argument and they have made a decision that the state's supervisory authority is sufficient and will sometimes override local school districts control over these types of matters especially when it comes to charter schools and I I thank you and I understand that I still think this is different because a charter school is in a different building and it's a different school and schools

124of hope if they are colllocating they are in our school and so I think it's different and I think this is unconstitutional 100%. But I have other questions let me be clear on just one point I don't I want to be clear I don't Mr. Pomearini is telling you what transpired, not necessarily whether he agrees that's constitutional even on that issue. I am Am I correct? I mean you're you're reciting to us what the law has been. Yes. And how it's been interpreted. And I will say that I understand the argument that you're raising. and there may be some instance in the future where we have to, you know, raise that potentially. We then run into the House Bill 769 case that says we're supposed to presume the law is constitutional and not challenge it.

125I've always had an issue with if there's something in the Constitution and our constitutional powers are being asserted that we should have some sort of way of remedying that and it seems like the state courts have pulled away on that. But there may come a time that this board looks at it and says, "Hey, that's the one step too far." I don't know what that situation would be. I would reserve obviously until we're in that situation to give you advice one way or the other. But I understand where you're coming from as far as, you know, the language of the Constitution and where where you see that it's assuring our local control. I can just tell you in the past when those deci when those issues have been raised in the courts the courts have

126deferred to the state board of education and override overridden local control. But in general if a if there's something in the constitution that contradicts a statute or a rule the constitution wins, right? That's the general rule. Yes. No. Okay. Unless the courts decide that they don't read the constitution the way we read the constitution. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Very true. This state supreme court has not yeah no come down on that side. And before you get to your next question, so we have to provide in in the rule it says vacant and underused facilities reports and that is by February 1st school districts must provide the department with the following information with regard to their unused vacant and surplus facilities. I do not see a requirement for charter schools to do the same. But

127isn't it so interesting because charter schools are considered public schools, right? Statutoily they are considered public schools under 10233 and they also get public money, right? They certainly do. H So sounds like the traditional public schools are being treated differently than the charter schools. Again, I'm assuming that's rhetorical. Okay, I'll move on. I think you get my point. okay. I had just some some basic questions. So, and I don't think anyone's asked this. I'm going to try not to repeat questions because everybody had such great questions. does could different levels of schools operate in the same school? In other words, could a hope operator come in and operate a high school in a district elementary school? There's nothing in law right now or rule to say otherwise. So, I'm going to make the assumption that

128they can I would add that it would have to be feasible, right? I mean, yes, they could, but but building code building code, and I'm not the building code expert by no means, but so I do know that u high school students have a different building code. For example, bathrooms, toilet sizes are different, so somebody would have to pay for that. some the remodel and renovation of a particular building or subset classrooms. but yeah, so changes would have to take place, but there's nothing in statute or rule that says they can't. But that may be a place where we could raise that the locating there is materially impracticable because it would require a change to the facilities that are otherwise there. Got it. Okay, good to know. in the schools of hope rule, the it's

129just a long number, but I'll say the one that ends in 271. in 1K, it defines sponsor as the district. And I just want to confirm that definition of district is the same one in the school of hope law 102.33. And I'm looking at the section 6B for tort liability. So I just want to confirm that a school district would not be liable for basically anything that the hope operator or schools of hope or their employees or agents do on our property. Is that an accurate assumption? it is an accurate assumption. It is a correct statement of the law. Of course, in that situation, I assume that not only would the school of hope get named, we will get named and then we will figure out in the litigation who's responsible for what acts or

130omissions. Okay, thank you. just go through wanted to also bring up the way that the disputes are managed. The way that I'm reading this is under the rule the rule that I just referenced, the board of education, if there's a dispute, the board of education appoints the magistrate. Well, the board of education writes the rule. They appoint the magistrate. They then decide whether or not they're going to accept or reject the order of the magistrate. So, it sounds like they are writing the rule and also adjudicating. Is that legal? So, it's the commissioner who appoints the magistrate and then the magistrate holds a hearing an evidentiary hearing or he could decline to do so within 45 days of his appointment and then the magistrate will submit its recommended order to the commissioner within 15 calendar

131days and then the commissioner shall provide a recommended order to the state board of education within 15 calendar days. the state board of education must approve or reject the recommended order at its next regular meeting. So that's the that's the process. the question of whether it's legal or not. state agencies get wide difference in how they set up dispute resolutions like this. So I would have to look in to see if there's any constitutional issues. Honestly, I there's probably not going to be a constitutional issue with how that setup is. I would, you know, whether or not there should be more independence in the magistrate process and who they're appointed by as a matter of policy. I think this is supposed to be independent and I would recommend that they do it independently, but I

132don't think they're legally required to separate the appointment of the magistrate from the from the commissioner there and then they just accept or reject. So really they just decide at the end. The state board gets to decide whether or not they accept or reject the magistrate's recommendation. That's correct. one thing I haven't heard a lot about is how these schools of hope are how their outcomes are measured and judged and what that means. So, I'm I see there's a So, can you tell me a little bit about that? They are held to the same accountability standards as a traditional charter and as district schools. Okay. So these so the ones that you mentioned they're the grades that you mentioned with the D's and the Fs and the C's they just continue on functioning. Yes. Because

133they don't meet criteria in statute to close. Got it. Okay. Okay. And then the last thing I wanted to ask about was and I think this just really goes to how these laws and rules were adopted. you know, the rule seems to require the board of education to sort of establish measurable criteria for how they designate hope operators. And I see when they wrote the rule, they sort of ignored that part and the hope operators now are just approved based on whether they get funding from the US DOE charter school program or the national fund of the charter school growth fund. Is that true? Is that correct? That's Let's Go ahead. No, no, go ahead, K. That is two of the criteria. but they're supposed to have a record of being successful with students from

134low-income families. Okay. But they actually don't, as we've seen in our state. Some do, not all. Some do, some don't. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate your presentation and your comments. Okay, member Douglas, this whole situation just really is concerning to me. and just like my the other members, I am concerned with funding. funding is a big concern to me because so I just want the parents to understand and the everybody to understand exactly what the situation entails. so I'm going to ask a question again. So who pay for the employees and the staff and the nurses and transportation services and the buses and all this? who pay for all the services when the kids are coming into our schools. That's going to be us. Oh, that's going to be us. Okay. Just wanted to make

135sure that we understand that. if we have more kids coming in, so we can, you know, assume that we probably need more transportation, more buses, you know, because we have more students and we need space for those students. So, who pay for those buses that extra buses that we need to transport these kids? Again, it's going to be us. We Yes, we're responsible for transportation, food and nutrition, custodial and other administrative, right? Okay. So, and safety. Okay. what about if we are in a lawsuit? Who exactly is being sued? So the statute that member Vanos just referenced says that the hope operator will be responsible for paying damages with regard to the acts and omissions of the hope operator's employees. So for example, if their teachers are responsible for or their support staff are responsible

136for, you know, harming a child or something like that, they would be responsible under the statute. But what I was referencing with member Vanos is how this will work practically because we are located in the same building. Exactly. It is most likely that both us and the hope operator would be sued and then the parties would try to figure out during the course of the litigation who was actually responsible for the act or remission that harmed the child and then that would be where the damages would be aortioned is we would be litigating to see whether who was responsible who was responsible. you know it just remind me of you know being in empty neester that somebody comes and said you know your h your house is empty let's bring some more kids in so

137you pay for the food you pay for education transportation for those kids and in case something happened to them you are in charge of them and I think and the language is really you must do this you past there. I do not understand how we came to that. And this is not the, you know, the United States that we know. Okay. Democracy. This is just not democratic to me that you can impose without any accountability something like that to a school. And I'm also for the school of choice. You can choose to bring your kids whoever you want, but don't bring your burden to me, you know. I mean, yes, we always had choose a school of choices. Always. Private school, we we did. So, if you want to bring your child to private school,

138well, you will have to pay for it. If you want public school, you don't have to pay for it. I mean, that was clearcut, but I it seems like now the line is getting a little bit grayish. I don't know what's going on. Anyway, just that's my take on it and just the whole situation is outrageous. Thank you, Member Douglas. Member Felder. Thank you, Chair and Dr. Kia and company. We thank you, Mr. Moody, for your presentation and what you said. I have so many concerns and I think when member Bird first, well, actually when the chair said her comments and then I had so many questions in my mind and I just let me just ask this one question. Are teachers from the school of hope? Are they certified? Do they have to be

139certified? They do not. Okay, let me just present a scenario if I could. I'm sick and I need to have my appendix taken out. And my surgeon comes to me and says, "I'm the one to perform this surgery. However, I've never gone to med school. I've just played operation when I was a young boy, young girl, and I've always wanted to be a doctor. Now, I'm going to take your appendix out cuz I'm not certified to be a doctor. That whole scenario, it sounds crazy, but that's what it sounds to me. That every public school teacher, administrator, every person in the public schools are required to have a certification. to have a college degree or degree in career, you have to have a certification to teach. That is not saying that there are people who

140sometimes have the gift because teaching is a is a gift. It's a calling and you might not have gone to school and you still could have the ability. But it disturbs me that we're playing Russian roulette with our children's education when maybe I'll get this one person who was not certified. They may be okay and maybe not. That disturbs me. And the other issue that I have and it'll probably come back around is that the question begs that we low performing there was a time when you had students and we were doing all that we could as teachers to make sure our students did well and made the grade. And because there was a lower 10%, that's all it's going to be a lower 10% in any career, anything you do, there's always going to

141be a small percentage of people who are not just getting it. But you work with the ones that are to kind of balance out the ones that are not. But now we're being attacked by the lower 10%. You can always have a lower 10%. But what about the other 90% that are doing what needs to be done and we're being punished for that? I have a concern that because in any any area, any career, there's always going to be a lower 10%. And WB de Boys talked about the talented 10. There's going to be a 10% of students that are going to be geniuses. Say about the black race. there's going to be always a lower 10% in anybody's race that's not quite getting it. But so should the 90% be punished. And that's what

142I see is happening. Also, when I look at the schools that are low performing, I'm I'm looking at strategically when it says in that you mentioned about the Washington Shores area, these investors. it's called opportunity zone. What kind of opportunity are you going to invest in the people there? Are you looking at what you see as marginalized and deciding statewide and federal government that we're just going to take over? I mean, are the people that are living in what you call opportunity zones, have they had have they been considered and these invest what are you investing in? Are you investing in to make better? Are you investing to come and take over and then change? because I don't know which board member but that I if we wanted to sell the school if we if

143the school is not producing the way that we said it was going to produce after we bring in all these people from hope and then we realize that we still got a C after 5 years or we now got a D after three years so we just turn into a parking lot or we just get rid of it. Those are my concerns because of where I live, where I was raised, and where I still live. And everybody sees it now as an opportunity. Opportunity for what? What? What are you going to do with this? I don't need to repeat what most of the board members have already said about the unfairness of the fact that we have to pay for all of this, but what I'm hoping and praying that people, the community, they're listening

144to this work session. And I'm going to go back and call them and see, did you listen? I need you to go back and listen because you're going to be the ones that have to make the difference. It's not enough for public education people to have the outcry. The community has to have the outcrop. This is tax dollars. This is tax dollars. And I am a person for choice because I chose whatever high school I wanted to go to. Well, my parents chose my college, but they I chose whatever high school I wanted to go to. So, I believe in choice. But what I don't believe in in is that this kind of spirit, this kind of forced thing that I feel that is on public education that you must do this, you must do

145that. What happened to equal opportunity that we always talk about? What I mean for for all people and if parents want to let their children go to hope and choice choice schools, they need to have the money for that. We should we as a board should not have to foot that bill because it's expensive. It is education is expensive now. Public education is supposed to be free is yet expensive. So I I am concerned and again it was brought up but I'm going to reiterate that point. board member Vano said something to the fact if schools of hope if they were high schools where they have to be lodged in elementary schools. That's a concern for me. Somebody 16 years old in school with somebody that's five or six. Who's going to foot the bill

146with the bathrooms? Just the just the the passes in the hallway. How is that going to be managed? Has that been thought about? I'm serious. Has that been considered? That is a real concern that I have. So, I have other stuff, but I'm not going to I'm going let other people come back and say some of the things, but my concern number one is con with the community. The fact that the opportunity, what kind of opportunity you bringing to my community? What do you mean? And then also this certification, the fact that you don't have to be certified to teach children. I would end with this note. That's Russian roulette. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Member Felder. Mr. Pomearini, is that U member Gallo perhaps on the on the line? Yeah, I've that's why

147I'm ringing in. Okay. Thank you. And I know we have member Salamanca, I believe, also wanting to weigh in unless we've lost her. Emmer Gallo, are you on the line with us? I am, Madam Chair. How are you? I'm good. Welcome. Thank you. I have a couple of questions. I want to stick with the certified teachers for now because not employing certified teachers is specific to a schools of hope operator. Correct. Other regular charter schools do or are required to hire certified teachers with a few exceptions. Correct. Yes. Thank you, Dr. Scott. You're welcome. And as as Dr. God has showed us some of the schools of hope have not performed very well in our state or any better than or some cases as member Vanna has pointed out worse in our state than our

148traditional public schools have performed. so my other question is on do schools of hope have to have insurance on our facilities or the portion of our facilities that they will be colllocating on in the event that there is a lawsuit. Will they have insurance to ensure that they could pay for those lawsuits? I see Mr. Palarini typing away. Pretty sure we know the answer. I don't see anything in the rule that says that. Okay. And since we're responsible for the maintenance and custodial and everything else, I would think that insurance for any facility related issue is ours because it's our facility. Thank you. I also have a question about ESE and ELLL services because I've read some stuff when I did my research that it said that we would provide the things already mentioned plus

149other services. Would other services include ES services or ELLL services? And if so, would the charter school have to cover those costs if that's being provided by the district? She talking about district related services. Go ahead, Mr. Moody. I'm ask for clarification. And are you referring to the district level services that we traditionally provide charter schools for ESSE and ELA services, the district level services? Yes. Yes, Mr. Moody. So, I would I'll go out on a limb here and general counsel can pull me back, but if needed, I would say that yes, we would be responsible for providing those district level services like we do other charter schools. I would say I would also add the difference is we traditionally receive up to 5% of the FTE for s for for those type of services

150for traditional charter schools right for schools of hope it's been shared that we are not to provide not to collect or not able to collect those type of fees for such services. So I would lead me that would lead me to believe that we provide those district related services free of charge to schools of hope what Mr. Moody said. So Mr. Palmer. Oh thank you Mr. That was a ditto. So yeah ditto. So, what I'm hearing, which is quite disturbing, is that you'll have to use our resources that are already diluted to service kids that we receive no FTE dollars on at all. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. and I appreciate all the work that Dr. Scott and Mr. Moody have done on this. I appreciate the one-on-one that we received. It was it was helpful

151in gathering information. So, I have another question. And as we're looking at reimagining schools, we're looking at our low enrollment because we really want to focus on the best education we could provide for our students, a high quality education and we understand that diluting resources does not provide the best highquality education for our students. How will these schools of hope impact or further dilute those services? And how will we be able to accurately project enrollment if schools or hope are coll-located in our buildings? Mr. Moody. So great questions. So let's talk about enrollment first. That will be a challenge. our demographer Tommy does a great job of of projecting enrollments district so our district schools are a little easier to to do some of the charter schools that recruit districtwide that I think would be

152more of a challenge for our demographer to kind of project enrollment. Charter schools are able to to limit their their enrollment by grade levels. they can cap it off. So that would that would help in projecting enrollments. but yeah, that would be a challenge. And I forgot your first question, the diluting of resources, right? I mean, there's a reason why we're looking at reimagining schools and so that we can make sure that everybody has the best services available. If we have to provide that to charter schools, it kind of defeats what we're trying to do. Absolutely. I would agree with that comment or or add a resounding yes to that question that providing services, deliluding services as you call it, would impact overall district financial concerns. and you know, you can only spread yourself so

153thin before it starts to have an impact, if you will. Thank you. I have just two more questions in I it was either the rule or the law. It talked about continuous space. What will that look like? like would we have to share office space with them or would we have to provide a classroom that they can have office space? How would that look like if we didn't really have a school that was set up for that type of contiguous space? Yes, ma'am. so the rule speaks to contiguous space. So I'll give you an example. let's say they have a school and they need 20 and we're talking collocation. They need 20 classrooms. the traditional OCPS school would have to we would have to work out some type of arrangement with the with the school

154with the shared facilities use that's in con that's in the statute and the management plan and the hope operator is entitled to contiguous space means that all their classrooms would be together. And it also further states that the OCPS school would have to move would have to empty and make space available and would have to move within the last seven days of of postplanning. So we would have to give up space to move our you know I use an example some of our first grade classrooms and move them so that the hope operator can have contiguous spaces. you know to complicate matters would be the shared facility like the media center. How would that work? the cafeteria during traditional lunch times that would have to be worked out as well. and I believe that would

155be hashed out in the management plan and the shared use plan. Dr. Vasquez. Yeah. board member Gallo, I liken it to all of the adjustments we had to implement when Riverdale was no longer able to be used because of the hurricane and we had to colllocate Riverdale on East Rivers campus and there were teachers that moved out of the building to assist. So it is quite a laborious process that we would have to engage with the hope operator to to ensure they have the requirements as stated in the law. Thank you for that. I appreciate it. And my last question is if it can I know there's an alternate authorizer that charters can use to get approved by passing the district for the schools of hope and colllocating. Can they bypass us and go to

156the state to get approved? I'm going to take a guess. I'm going to say no because the Charter School Review Commission utilizes the Florida Charter Institute to review those applications, but I believe it is in statute and rule that the School of Hope application must come to the superintendent. Wonderful. Thank you. And then my very last question, I promise is, and I know the answer to this, but I'm gonna ask it anyways. If there is a low performing charter school, Schools of Hope Charter School in an opportunity zone or it's low performing, can we colllocate in their building if they're underenrolled? That's a great question. I'm assuming it's rhetorical as John would say, as Mr. Palmerini would say, but great question. Thank you so much. I appreciate the presentation. Right. Thank you. I'm gonna we're

157going to hear from member Salamanca. I think she's on the line with us now. Okay. Member Salamanca. no, Chair. My questions have been answered. Thank you. All right. Thank you. That was Oh, because you're in her spot. Okay. I see. Thank you. So, I do have some some comments to make. I have been extremely quiet since I asked the first question. I assume that board members would ask most of the questions and they have just a few kind of observations. in addition to the obvious and one is the question of and it's been I mean we bounced it around but the question of accountability so you had one school of hope that had I think three A's in a row and it started with an A. Do we what what do you know about that

158school? Cuz I'm trying to understand if it was a colllocated school, they would have inherited a student population that would have been a C or below. The grand one as she's looking at I know that it's not a collocation school because collocation just began. Okay. All right. Thank you. Right. So it's not collocation and I believe she's referring to matter. Okay. I think that was the school matter. I think that's the one that had the A's down in like Bickl and Matter schools have not historically colllocated and to my knowledge I don't think any of the 12 right now are colllocated. Okay. So and that's the superintendent just pointed out that until now you couldn't. But here's so the one that has three straight A's. I'm what I am trying to understand is they entered

159an area with low performing school or schools or they don't have to. They can locate anywhere as a school of hope. I thought school of hope still has to be in an area where we have low performing schools or an opportunity zone. Correct. Yes. Correct. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Theoretically, you could have an opportunity zone where the schools weren't necessarily that the two are such different things. So, yeah, for the benefit of the audience, opportunity zone doesn't mean opportunity for kids. It is a zoning designation kind of a land use designation based on employment I don't know jobs businesses location etc. So maybe that would explain the three straight A's. the what I find really really challenging from the accountability standpoint for student performance especially with the collocation and the five mile radius we talked about

160this the beginning but unless there's a way that I'm not aware of and perhaps there is for the state to actually monitor the previous performance of the students that are in that school to see if the individual performance of the students have gone up and that makes the difference between it previously being in a zone where the schools were performing at I can only say C because we don't have D's and F. We have a school with a C and now we have a school of hope that's performing at an A. We don't know what students performance is that makes up the C and the A and so it and also so schools of hope have I think five years in in which to bring the grade up and then even at the end of

161the five years it's not a done deal you're out of here it's an opportunity I to redisuss whether or not with the state whether you're going to continue. but at the again the grade can be meaningless if you don't have a defined zone and which the whole premise of this kind of to me falls apart if at the end of the day you don't really know if you're accomplishing the goal. And then in addition to that, you don't have to have certified teachers as we've discussed, which if it's important enough, we've sound like a dead horse. No, I don't think you sound like a dead horse. That's not how that goes. but if it's so important that we require it for our public schools, I was struggling just a couple of weeks ago with why

162do we give people money to take to a private school that doesn't have to have certified teachers? That bothers me. But now it goes beyond that and it says lowest performing students, lowest performing school, we're going to give you teachers that aren't certified. I if it's supposed to be a good thing, don't we want the best for the students that need it the most? It's just irrational to me. And when we look at the funding issue, we've we've talked about we get the money for transportation and we get the money for school safety services, but we know that we only get approximately 50% of the funding we need for the transportation we have now. And that's not unique to OCPS. That's pretty consistent statewide. The state only pays for 50%. So the school of hope

163is going to give us 50%. And we're going to pay the other 50% out of the funds we would otherwise spent educating our students. So it's not just that it's a plus for the school of hope. It's a plus at the direct expense of the other students that are in that school or in our district. And the same goes for all the other services that we get nothing for. Custodial maintenance, food services. It's not just that they're getting something that they don't have to pay for that we have to pay for with our students, which means their students have there's more money, more resources to pay. Uncertified teachers, higher wages, and we've got the better teachers over here. We're not getting that same amount of money. It's not just that. It's that we are losing

164that amount. The additional money they're getting is coming directly out of the classrooms with our students. And we know which ones are low performing and we can tell you whether or not they've improved from one year to the next because they're a zoned district and we can see what's happened there. So, we have this nebulous, you know, you're going to have money at the expense of the rest of our students. the ones we know need it. We can't figure out if you did what you said you were going to do or not because we don't really know what that zone is and then we have to share our facilities and we don't know how in the world we're going to do that. It is so bad and so convoluted that it's one of these things

165that I think I reach I often say this can't work for long long because it's too absurd and it's too bad. Kind of like doing away with property taxes. Seriously. I mean seriously. I keep saying that's not going to happen. But if you ask the voters, they'll say, "Sure, until nobody shows up at the house when the house is on fire. Until they get in a car accident and nobody shows up to help them. Until, you know, grandpa's having a heart attack and nobody shows up because those services are paid 100% by property taxes." So, some things are just so ridiculously bad that they can't last. And that's what I'm hoping. The only concern that I have is that it's so confusing and so unbelievable that very few people will realize how bad the situation

166is unless a whole lot of people are tuning in like this and care about what's happening in their own classes, their own kids, and realize it's not just somebody else's getting more. It's at your kids's expense. So, with that, let me let me go to vice I'm sorry member Bird and then member Vanosen. Thanks for thanks for letting me letting you vent. Yeah, it's okay. I feel you. so, couple two final thoughts here. first of all, I'm assuming that the there's there's a couple things that I really want the public to hear. One, number one, I'm assuming that the number of charter school businesses that apply to be School of Hope charters is going to boom. because it's a pretty darn good business model if you're in for a good way to make some money.

167Just saying. You get $8,000 a student and you have no overhead, no expenses pretty much, except your teachers that you're hiring, but that's about it. But someone else is going to provide the building and all the other costs. So, I want the public to think about that first of all. Second of all, I felt like I really needed to just say something about about the schools that are on this list and specifically one of my schools. I was I'm really highly offended by the thought that there may be a people that are that would believe that a the school is not servicing their kids or is not providing the best education they can to their kids or failing their children in their school. I find that highly offensive because I know for a fact that

168the school that I have that is on that list, no one is working harder. this school that's on that list made a 14 percentage point gain in their ELA level three or higher. So, all the kids that scored level three or higher on their third grade ELA, actually, I don't know if it's third grade ELA. I think it might be the whole school, but anyway, they made a 14% gain in 2025 in the spring. No other school in my area around this low performing school made anywhere near that. The state of Florida made a 2% ELA gain last year. OCPS overall made a 2% ELA gain. This school made a 14% gain. Do not say that school is failing their children because they're not. This school has also been a B or a C since

1692020. no one is working harder. But when you've got children that are showing up to school that maybe don't have a home to sleep in, maybe are sleeping on someone's couch, maybe don't have parents at home, maybe they've got a parent in jail and this parent is over here doing drugs, or maybe they have so many things going on in their head that they can't actually do the learning that they need to do. And you've got teachers that are trying to hold them together, trying to provide all the things that those kids need outside of school because they have to to get them to try to learn the there's you've got kids that are showing up to school with so many enormous challenges that it's not fair to try to compare in that sense. But

170to say that school is not working as hard as they possibly can, those teachers are not going to the same professional development, learning about the science of reading, teaching those kids every day that they can is an insult and it's it's not the truth. It's not the truth. And so, I felt like it was really important for me to say that. And I want and I just wanted my particular school that's on this list to know that I believe in you and I know I see the change that you're making and I know you're working really hard and I don't see how bringing in another school and stretching already super thin resources even thinner is possibly helpful at all to these schools or to these children. So that's all I have to say about that.

171Thank you. Thank you. member Vanos. Thank you, Madam Chair, and you're here. Member Bird, I agree with so much of what you and Chair Jacob said. I mean, we and this really speaks to when you are taking our limited public education dollars and you are diverting it into parallel systems, whether that's to taxpayer funded vouchers, whether that's to charters, whether that's to School of Hope. When you are making these parallel systems, it prevents our public school system from doing what it needs to do and having the funds that it needs. And in fact, you are draining and defunding our options and public the public options, which means that the choices for the vast majority of Flidians who choose their public school are limited. Yep. Okay. So, I do have two specific questions. One is I

172understand that if we if the district or the school board does not sign these whatever notice of intents or performance contracts, there is an administrative fee that the district loses. How much is that administrative fee? 2007,000 a month. So, for 2425, the school district collected $3,65,889. That came out to $255,500 per month. So, the 1% would go down to $2,554. Okay. And how much would it cost us to operate with these schools with these schools colllocated in our own schools? If we had, let's just say we had five colllocated schools, do you think it would cost more than $4 million a year? I everybody's looking down my way. I have no idea what that number is. That is absolutely okay. I'll just leave it out there that we should we should I would like to

173know how much it would cost to actually pay for these services for these schools of hope in our schools and compare that to the administrative fee that we would lose. and the last question I had has to do with speaking of money, you know, who's not short of money is the schools of hope because I see that they have access to, school of hope funds. So, could you describe that a little bit more, please? We were just talking about that sidebar. they have an opportunity to receive funds to help them to get started like startup funds. they also have other opportunities for funding with through a revolving loan plan that is set up for schools of hope. So they do have other avenues to receive funding that the traditional charters don't and that the traditional

174public schools do not. So these startup funds is this how how long do they have access to those startup funds? And I'm just asking I think the rule looks like it says they get it for the first five years and then after the first five years they can apply to get to have that extended I believe so. Yes, ma'am. I'd have to get back with you on a let me research statute a little a little deeper. But yes, they get they'll get the revol if they're building a school, they'll they can get the revolving loan for you know the construction startup funds of of that and I believe it is five years but I'll confirm and then you know the school of hope money as well they'll get based on it says that they'll get

175it after the five years of of implementation of their existence based on their academic scores. So, they'll get additional funding through the school of hope funds, but I'll get back with you on the startup funds. I cannot find it immediately. And that revolving loan that was passed by our state lawmakers that I believe was for hund00 million. Is that right? They allocated that amount for the schools of hope in total. Yes. And on the DOE website, they do show the schools that have benefited from that. So how it gets replenished is as the schools pay the loan back, it goes back into the fund. But if it drops past a certain amount, then there's some appropriated money to help fund it. Interesting. That's nice for them. and then of course the other point you mentioned

176was just about the grants that the hope operators as well charter schools generally have access to that our traditional public schools don't. So there's actually many streams of money coming in to prop up these schools that do at best know better than our schools. Okay, thank you. U, one last question on the on the financial end. does the state monitor the finances of these schools? Do we know? And if so, how how do they monitor? They're supposed to submit quarterly financials to to the district. Okay. Just like a traditional charter. Okay. To the state or to the district? I'm sorry. To the district. Okay. Okay. And would that be financials for the FTE or financials including the grant money? Do we know what those financials look like? And if you don't know right this minute,

177that'd be interesting to delve into that a little more. Charter schools when they do their financials, it does include grant funding. it does. so that they would be required to do that also. And I'm going to make the assumption that they still have to do an annual audit. just like the traditional charter schools do. That was going to be my next question. Okay. All right. Well, thank you. Dr. Vasquez had suggested we take a break, which I think is an excellent necessary idea. Mr. Pomearini, just on the question that was asked about the administrative fee and whether or not we just decide whether or not to with just not enter into the agreements and withhold it. Just one thing I want to caution. under the rule, they the school of hope is allowed to go

178to a special magistrate for contract issues. So, if you play it out to its logical conclusion, they will ask for a special magistrate hearing about, hey, the district's refusing to enter into a contract. I would guarantee you dollars to donuts. The Department of Education will order us to enter into the contract in very very quick order and we will then have lost the administrative fee for that period that was there. So I don't I just wanted to in looking at it I don't think it you know withholding approval of a contract would be a legally sustainable issue going forward. And Mr. Palmer I forgot I had made a note of that. after that determination I would bet money that the statute is revised to remove that possibility. But I still think it would be a

179interesting financial exercise to see which would cost more. I suspect we'd be better off forfeiting the administrative fee. So, but it would be very it's going to be very very hard to measure that. All right. Thank you all very much. Very good. Well, one more insightful interesting conversation. Thank you. How much time? Like 15 minutes. We need more than 15 minutes. Okay. I need at least enough time to run all the turn to you. Just tell them what you're going to do. Hey, hey, hey. I'm heat. No. Heat. Heat. Nat. Hey. Hey. Hey. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Hey. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Hey, hey, hey. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Hey. Hey. Hey. Heat. Heat. Hey, hey, hey. Heat. Heat. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. Heat. Heat.

180N. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat up here. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Hey, hey, hey. Heat. Heat. N. Heat. Heat. Heat. First of all, I just want to apologize. I'm so sorry that you all had to wait this long. we do appreciate you in experience, I'm sure. Yeah, welcome to OCPS. no, I appreciate you guys being patient with us. that was a that was a lot of information. okay. So, we are here for charter application for Wild Oaks Preparator Preparatory Academy. I'm going to turn this over to Dr. Vasquez. thank you. Our last presentation this afternoon is for charter application. I'm going to turn it over to Dr. Kia Scott for our introductions. Okay. Thank you. Good afternoon, chair, school board members, and superintendent Vazquez. Today, we are meeting with the

181application team for Wild Oaks Prep Academy. The Renaissance Charter School Governing Board has partnered with Charter Schools USA as the educational service provider. Currently, we have four charter schools that are governed by the Renaissance Board. They are Renaissance at Chickasaw, Renaissance at Hunters Creek, Renaissance at Golden Rod, and Renaissance at Crown Point. The application team will share a PowerPoint presentation that will provide an overview of the school. After the school choice staff will ask some clarifying questions pertaining to the application. Finally, you will then have the opportunity to ask any questions you may have of the application team. So presenting with us today are Jodie Evans, Jessica Verier, Dr. Jana Rascin, Herbert Spectre, Lzanne Norton, Ingred Diaz Quantero, and Galitza Rivero. Ready? I'll turn it over to you. Great. Thank you so much. And thank

182you for taking time out of your already packed schedule to fit us in and hear more about us. We love our relationship that we have with OCPS. We're excited to share about our traditional charter coming coming soon hopefully. All right. So, this school will potentially be called Wild Oaks Preparatory Academy. our governing board, as mentioned, is the Renaissance Charter School Board. Our educational service provider is Charter Schools USA. We're planning on serving grades K to 12, approximately 1535 students, and opening in 2027. our target location currently is Apopka, and we're going to get into those details a little bit more as we go on. And our academic focus is for rigorous college prep programming. So, our mission at this school is to inspire every student to excel through rigorous college preparatory academics and real world

183learning experiences. that prepare them for college, career, and life. The vision is to provide a dynamic K12 learning community where school where students grow the skills, knowledge, and agency to navigate life with purpose and possibility. Our target area and enrollment, we're looking at a location near Plymouth, the Plymouth Sural Road and West Lester Road in the Apopka area of Orange County. It's one of the fastest growing regions. Everything's really popping up on that side of Orlando. How do we discover this area? We use the ESRI demographics, new home source, and the FL DOE know your data advance reports around student enrollment to determine our location, our enrollment projections, and student population. So, at Wild Oaks, we'll adhere to controlled open enrollment statute. In year one, we're going to start with K7 and grade nine. Actually,

184year two, we're adding two grades. That's eighth grade and 10th grade. And then one per year after year two. At year five, we're hoping to reach our full enrollment of 1535 students. Our projected student population in this area a free and reduced lunch status of 83% a minority 79% ELL's 11% ESSE potentially 13% and gifted 4%. All right, good afternoon almost good evening everybody. Thank you board. my name is Jessica Verdier. the deputy director of academics for Charter Schools USA, our Florida State team. so what I'm going to do is run through our educational program design with you. our education model is our CSUSA ed model, and we implement this model in all of our CSUSA schools across the state, including the four that currently operate in Orange County. And we're very proud of the

185continuous improvement that our schools are making with this model and we continue to re-evaluate it and train our teachers on it continuously. our stage not age approach at this school will be very specific to acceleration. We really want to make sure that we're looking at the most challenging yet appropriate class placements for every student. really looking at the personalized learning. If you look at the mission and vision, it kind of is all encompassed in this motto, which you can see is igniting ambition, preparing for college, and succeeding for life. So, three things to really call out here are personalized learning, project-based learning, and college acceleration pathways. The very first one, personalized learning, just to really promote our personalized learning plans. That's a huge part of what we do in our in our schools and we

186really anticipate that Wild Oaks will will succeed greatly in this with our stage nage approach where every single student has a personalized learning plan that's tailored to them. And then project-based learning. We want to make sure that not only are students excelling in the academic component of PBL, but also really learning about collaboration and critical thinking skills. And we have a virtues framework that we really plan on making sure that they learn not just how to succeed academically but how to collaborate with their peers effectively too. College acceleration pathways we are exploring multiple options. So I'm just going to go ahead and show you some of those options here. we definitely have a vision to advance to college credits being offered in our school in the K12 school through multiple means. So, we are looking

187into multiple pathways, one of which is the ACE diploma pathway. students with their personalized learning plan can be accelerated to gain up to 45 college credits before they even leave our school. And we're looking to also look at dual enrollment for this school for college credit opportunities as well. So, our governance and educational services, as we spoke earlier, our board is the Renaissance Charter School, Inc., our chairman is Ken Haiko. Our vice president Tom Wheeler, treasurer Paul Ceruo, director Pat Smith, director Billy Miller, and director Dennis Clark. That's our Renaissance board that serves our four schools that are currently here as well. those are our schools that we discussed earlier. Currently, Chickasaw Trail last year was a C. Renaissance Crown Point was a B. Renaissance at Golden Rod was a B. And Hunter Creek is

188an A. So, our board members, we do have monthly board meetings, and our board members bring a lot of experience in the educational, financial, and operational elements required to sustain a charter school. Renaissance plans to leverage its partnerships with CSUSA to provide the day-to-day management of Wild Oaks Academy, uniting Rex governance strength with CSUSA's operational expertise. And CSUSA is our educational service provider. We have 20 more than 25 years of management experience. We have 85 schools across our network. All schools are Cognia accredited and implement the CSUSA education model that Miss Verdier just spoke on and our CSUSA support team led by our CSUSA Florida superintendent Dr. Eddie Ruiz and myself. I'm the area director here in Orange and Ocio and Lake County. we include curriculum specialists. We have ESSE specialists, ELLL and operational specialists.

189We collaborate with the school instructional leadership team to implement the education model and provide professional development and training including with monthly leadership meetings. And that's all we have for you tonight. So, thank you for your time. Open it back up to you, Miss Scott. Dr. Scott, thank you. At this time, two of we're a small and mighty team, as you see. It's only three of us. So, I'm going to give Gina Dole and Margaret Almo will ask some clarifying questions of the board and after that if you have any additional questions you would like to pose to the applicant group. Thank you. Good evening chair board superintendent Vasquez. Our first clarifying question for the school team is what do you attribute to the success of your current school's educational program? You can take it first.

190Okay. honestly, our per our personalized learning plans, they have all of the student data, they're created for every student to be able to excel and grow where they are. So, truly teaching the leaders and the teachers at our schools how to implement those with students and getting buyin from parents. So we take all the data that we gather through benchmark testing, through our instrual focus, assessments, any data point that we have along with making sure like we talked about our virtues curriculum and making sure we're creating well-rounded students in our communities and giving back to the communities that our schools are in to ensure that they're ready when they graduate from our schools. So really just making sure that everyone's on board with our education model and the personalized learning that happens within our schools

191right now. Thank you, Miss Evan. My next question is please tell us which of your schools is being replicated. So in the application it's a replication. So are you replicating? I believe we're replicating Hunter Creek. Okay. It's our A school. They're currently up for AVID demo status. So, we're very proud of our school there in Hunter Creek and we're looking forward to attending that. All right. What methods do you currently have in place to support nonproficient ELLL and ESSE students? So, we currently with our teachers, we have to start educating them. It's been very challenging moving some of that population of of teachers and students. So, we have monthly PLC's with our ELELLL staff and our ESSE staff. we've also bought specific curriculum to teach them how to push into the classrooms, not just stand

192next to the students, but actually help guide them as they're getting that grade level instruction. if a student needs specific help after school or during success block, which is a time where we will remediate grade level standards, they'll get specific pushin help at that time too. So we follow the IEP, we follow, all of the ML supports and if you wanted to add anything for our ML students, we just try to ensure that everybody's prepared. We have our meetings with our parents as well. We have parent universities after school to help them be able to help students at home also. So we put a lot of different things in place for teachers and students to be able to get the growth that we're looking for. And also the partnership that we Oh, do I have

193to speak into the mic or am I good enough with my teacher voice? So the partnership that we have with the department of multilingual here in OCPS has been key as well so that we align our efforts because we do know that our kids either come from OCPS schools or there's programs in OCPS that you know we shift back and forth. so even currently like at Chickasol to involve the community and grow that relationship we're going to be participating in hosting adult ESEL nights for parents. So, all those partnerships that we have going on have been key in the success of our students. Did you want to add anything, Dr. Ask? No, you're okay. Okay. So based on the estimated 12% of potential ESSE students of 766 students for the first year, how does the

194school intend to provide the services to approximately 92 students with one teacher as outlined in table 112 from the application for the first two years with increasing enrollment for year two? That's heavier than I expected it to be. so within the charter application, we do speak to re-evaluating that as necessary as students enroll and we do make those adjustments as needed based on what enrollment looks like. So, we do work with the well, they're not called that anymore, with the Finn network now in all of our schools in Orange County to make sure that we are following their processes for scheduling around the supports that are needed for students with disabilities. And then we use that to also drive what our staffing looks like. So, for that, do you have a ESC teacher that's just

195dedicated to providing those supports and delivering those services? and then a staffing specialist to do all the meetings or is that one person doing all of that for 100 for approximately 100 students. We look at what the need is at the school. So I know that school will have a student services coordinator as well. So, it could be that our student services coordinator takes on that role of staffing specialist, but it'll depend once the school is hired and we figure out who's going to be the best fit, you know, for the work that has to be done at the school. And then we do contract with providers to provide related services. So, speech therapy, occupational therapy, counseling, things like that. Awesome. Thank you. So my next question is similar to that but now to the

196ELLL population. based on the estimated 11% of potential ELLL students, how does the school intend to provide services to approximately 84 students with one curriculum teacher split with the reading interventionist and the ELLL coordinator as outlined in table 11.2 for the first first two years with increasing enrollment in year two. So you have one person who has multiple jobs and they have to service almost 100 students. So we do have a what equivalent to an ESEL compliance specialist which is our multilingual learner coordinator and we have departments within our teams where we provide professional development and the goal is to build a capacity not just of the coordinator so it doesn't sit on herself. she'll she'll be he or she will be provided the compliance end of it but then the instructional part is also

197by providing PD that's tailored to the needs of the students based on their WEDA screeners their proficiency levels and as the population grows we do meet yearly to see what our projection looks like how many have exited how many how many are reaching proficiency and based on that data then we hire what's needed. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, moving on to our second set of questions. FL DOE no longer supports the behavior improvement method conscious discipline since it's not evidence-based. What other strategies does the school intend to utilize? So we have our virtuesbased curriculum. we also have positive behavior systems that we put into place within the schools. oh my gosh, I just lost it. What's our A lot of our schools currently are using kickboard behavior through powers school. They're also using live school.

198So there's lots of options that we use for positive behavior system and our schools will have sto school stores that they can purchase with their positive behavior points and you know we definitely look at some restorative practices that we put in place but and that is all included in teacher training during that pre-planning week which we call new teacher induction and then returning teacher orientation as well. And we also follow the Orange County code of conduct. So our deans at our schools will implement that as well. Okay. Thank you. How does the school plan to pivot to the resiliency education standards instead of the 11 categories where castle was listed? Question. Can you repeat the question? Sure. How does a school plan to pivot to the resiliency education standards instead of the 11 categories where

199castle casel was listed? We can probably come back with more information on that once we consult with the team. We do have a virtues-based framework that we have recently developed with our national team at CSUSA that really aligns to virtues that help develop the whole child and really lean on those character education components to make sure that we're building not just smart students, but that we're also building students that know how to be empathetic citizens and collaborators as well. Yes, we just switched over from our AIA curriculum or altitude attitude is altitude. A attitude is altitude. That's where the castle a lot of the castle elements were from. So that's probably something we need to go back and adjust based on the new standards. Okay, thank you. next question. Please elaborate on the required volunteer

200hours for parents. Also, please explain the correlation between volunteer hours and the time of recommmitment. So, how do your volunteer hours work? Are there any penalties with that? And then how does that correlate with time to recommit? So, during our information sessions when we open schools and during our information sessions as we're having intent to return, we do discuss the opportunity for parents to come into our schools, which we absolutely want to have as many parents come as possible. So we do let them know that there is a requirement of volunteer hours. We have various opportunities for students and parents to get those volunteer hours. they get an hour for coming to the first information session. They can come and do field trips. They can come we can send things home for them to cut

201out. A lot of our prek and first grade teachers do like things that they send home where they can cut out or help in the classroom. they can help with tutoring. So, we give them a lot of different options to be able to get to the allotted hours that we request them to do. During that time, we also ask them if they're having a challenge where they can't get out of work or they can't come into the building, we will work with that family to try to engage them as much as possible. we also give them opportunities if they come to our parent universities that we just talked about or anything that's going on on campus. our when we have our PLP student conference conferences as well, we also give them time for that even

202if they're on Zoom or in person. So, we really try to make sure that we get them to complete those hours. As it comes to intent to return, that's when we have that conversation. So, if a parent only has 10 hours and we're trying to get to 20, we would figure out a plan to get that captured for them. So, we really haven't ran into an issue when it comes to recommitting and having students return. Okay. Thank you. Changing gears a little bit and this is the last question. please elaborate on the potential site and plans for construction. so this potential site we looked at based on the growth. Oh, closer. Sorry. Okay. We looked at based on the growth that you are seeing in Apakka. this looked at all of the proposed the ones

203that already went in and what is left to be built in that area. And then I al we also looked at by we I mean I looked at the schools in the area and how they've been growing. Like for example Kelly Park your K8 you opened three years ago and you're already at almost 80%. You're at 78% capacity right now. But when you look at the growth that's left to come, that school is soon going to be busting at the seams. And so that was the decision around the area that we looked at. And Wild Oaks is a new development. Correct. Yes. Okay. Thank you. That'll conclude our questions. Can I just correct one of the things that I said? We are not replicating Hunter Creek. We're just replicating the actual education model that we

204use in all of our schools. However, you're all invited to our demo demo day on December 4th if you'd like to come. Want to turn it back over to Superintendent Basquez for any questions? Thank you and thank you to you and your team. it is now the time for the board to ask questions and direct comments to the to you as part of the application process. All right. Thank you. let me let me go first. actually the replicate was kind of my first question. So the demographics that you have listed doesn't have a slide number but you'll know what it is. you're 79% minority, 83% free and reduced lunch. Where did where did you get this data? How did you arrive at? So, we use EZRI to look at a 15inute drive time, an estimated

20515-minute drive time from the target site. And within that 15-inute drive, we pull all of the schools that are in that drive time and we pull the demographics for each of those. And it's a it's a sum product of all of the demographics in all of those schools in that area. Okay. So if we looked at that same area and looked at the combined demographics, is this what we would see or Okay. yes. Okay. And I know you said you said it is sorry it is table 2.1 in the charter application. That's all the schools that were within that 15-minute draft time. so yeah, when asked what school, you mentioned, Hunter Creek, and I hear you saying you're not going to replicate Hunter Creek. Hunter Creek, a school right now. What are the demographics in

206Hunters Creek? I would have to look that up. Look it up. Yeah, I would have to look that up. I know we have right now 1500 students with a waiting list. primarily Hispanic. I could pull up power approximately 600 mls. There's 600 of the 1500 are ML lls. Yes. Sorry. Free and reduced lunch. They had 71 students with IEPs also. Okay. 70 71 total students with percentage of free and reduced lunch. I don't know. We're looking that up for you right now. We can get back to you on that. Okay. And the other is it three other schools that you have? Yes. The closest school would be Renaissance Adoe. Renaissance Charter School out of COE. Yeah. Do you know the free and reduced number on that? I do. It's I want to say it's 78.

207Trying to remember. They were just title one last year. Okay. We just lost title one this year. So they're on that bubble all the time of title and not title one. They're a B school. Yeah. So, I also just following up on the question staff asked about the staffing for ES and ELLL students. So, you're the material you presented has the number of students you expect and the staffing and I heard the answer, but I'm a I'm a little puzzled because what you've presented us is not adequate staffing. your plan right now does I don't think is including enough people to handle that population. So I know you said you'll look at it and assess things, but I'm just puzzled with the present with the application itself not seeming to mirror what you need for

208that population. And well, we usually add staff as enrollment comes because we're taking a we're ballparking how many ESC students we feel like will attend the school. Yeah. So, that's something we could definitely take back. Do you want to add to that? And we can make adjustment to the budget. The budget can support the additional staff as well. and so on the volunteer hours, is that do do you have a requirement for volunteer hours for your other schools? I'm assuming you do. Okay. I always kind of struggle with required volunteer. the word volunteer is they're strongly encouraged. Okay. Yeah. Because when I'm required, I'm not really volunteering. so are they required? It's in I'm confused. It is in the parent handbook. Okay. and we expect that parents will be involved in their in their child's

209academic career with us. do you have a certain number of hours that you expect them to be involved? I believe it's 20 for one student and 30 for more than one For the whole year. Yeah. The whole year. Okay. And has that have you had well never mind. I'm just I'm looking at 83% free and reduced and thinking that if I'm if I'm at that point and I'm a single parent, volunteering at my child's school would probably not be very feasible. So that's where I was just trying to kind of connect those two. I don't know that, you know, that all everybody at 83% is a single parent, but there will be a decent population. So, I'm trying to understand if with that requirement, are you inadvertently weeding out families? I don't know. I think

210once we know their situation, because I'm at at many schools visiting them and those conversations have come up, it's more of a individualized tailored to what is achievable for them. Yeah, I it and people may be tuning in which is why we usually say it's not that I can't hear you but yeah. No, but I hear what you're saying. I just and the rest of the board may not share this and I know that you're allowed to have that in your in your application. I just I think whether you're intending to or not, I think as a parent if I'm looking at that and I may say, you know what, I can't do that or I don't want to do that. So, I think whether intentional or not, I do think you're you're segregating or

211weeding out a population that either can't or doesn't have the interest in it. And unfortunately, those may be the very students that you're most seeking to serve. the students that are going to have the biggest challenge from a family standpoint, but that's just always been my really strong opinion about who needs the most help, and it's usually the ones whose parents can't or aren't going to volunteer. Go ahead, please. Oh, I was just I mean three of our four schools in Orange County are title one and we have the same requirement or strongly recommend our parents to come. Okay. And we get a lot of parents to attend events. So I mean that's great. I don't foresee that being an issue at this school either. All right. Thank you. Thank you. And woman behind you.

212You don't have to answer, but she had your hand up here. Go ahead. I was going to say as a parent for one of the students that go to our school, I do volunteer in the evenings and they do have events on weekends. So, they are very flexible as to when you can do those hours. All right. Thank you. member I think this is you. You're you're member Salamanca today. Member Bird. I am. Thank you. so, and the Apaka area is my area that I represent. So, I just have a couple questions about your location. You are you working with the Wild Oaks developer? I'm just No, we're not currently working with the developer there. Okay. Okay. It's do you think are you planning on the school being within the development the Wild Oaks development

213or just near that near Okay. I just have a question for you guys. I just I know that you said with all the development coming that Kelly Park will soon be busting at the seams and that may be true. I mean we are we've reserved space on that school for that purpose. and we know that Apakka High School is growing. I just want to make sure you guys do know that we do have two relief schools planned. I don't know if you knew that, but two relief schools planned in the 10-year plan for to relieve the high school and the middle school. So, I'm just a little concerned only because I've been waiting and waiting and waiting for my relief schools and you know now I've now I'll have your school there which will have

214pull 600 high school students pos is what you're projecting and possibly 400 middle school students. So, a thousand students that would be the students that we previously in our projections were planning on being in our schools in 2032. So, I'm guessing that's going to be pushing back my relief school. so, I'm a little concerned about that because the community has been desperately waiting for that school. So that's not really a question for you. Just wanted to make sure you knew that because I didn't want you to think that we were just like Thank you. not worrying about all those people moving into a popka. We're very aware and we are definitely planning for that. are you planning on as far as curriculum? I saw that you are doing ACE. Do you have ACE Cambridge diploma

215offerings in your other ones? We do. Okay, good. And are you do you offer any AP courses or are you gonna offer any AP courses? We're looking into a combination. We intend to apply for Cambridge. and then we also plan on looking into both dual enrollment and AP as well. we're considering all options. Okay. that's it for me. Thank you. Thank you member throwing. Sorry. Member Bird, member Vanos. Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to just follow up on one of the questions I think that member Bird was sort of asking about the students that you are targeting. and I see on page 95 of the of your application binder that you talk about your marketing strategy, which includes brochures, billboards, signage, digital ads, paid searches, social ads, local television, public service announcements, direct mailings,

216targeted cable television ads, and I'm just wondering, who where does that money for all of that advertising and targeted work come from? Well, we don't do all of those things. It may include a variety of things. we do have a budget for marketing for our new schools. We can pull that up also if you wanted to know what that looks like. Sure. Yeah. the budget for year one is 57,000 and then it's within the below that for the rest of the year the following years. So that 57,000 it's before your school opens because you're marketing. So you don't have like where does the money come from? Yeah, we have startup costs in a different line as well. And the startup cost for everything including the marketing is approximately so with the marketing it's 591,000. 591,000.

217Okay. I guess what I'm asking is so does that come how is that where does that come from? because you're you're a public school, so you're funded by your students, but you don't have the students. So, so it's going to be So, in year one, so in year one, when we receive the FTE funding, that will cover all that cost. But just for the marketing piece, it's 107,000. Okay. I guess what I'm asking is where does that money come from? like if you're going to because I would assume that you would be marketing now before the school opens so that you have students come to your school but you get money from students. So yeah, where does that money come from? So it's it's coming from Charter Schools USA for the for the startup cost.

218Got it. Okay. Thank you. And Charter Schools USA, that's the company that manages this school. Correct. And I understand that Renaissance is a nonprofit entity. Is Charter Schools USA also a nonprofit entity? No. okay. I actually have another question on page 102 of the binder. And it talks about the school itself, the building. And it says that the source of financing for the school is typically done by by developer financing. So who is the developer? The developer for the school is Red Apple. But Apple developer development. Thank you. And then in the next paragraph it says that the facility will be owned and constructed by this private developer. So that means that the where does your funding come to build the school? So there will be a bond that will be issued to cover the

219building costs. But essentially is your building paid for with public money? No. Well, the payments of it will be correct. So the payments over the years will be funded with the operating funds, the capital outlay from the Yeah. Okay. So it's funded so the building itself is funded with public money but the developer actually owns the building. Correct. And it will be leased to the governing board. Okay. So Okay. Okay, so let me follow up on that part. So the building is owned by the developer, though it's paid for by public money, but then the developer also collects lease payments from the school. And those lease payments come from where? Like where does that money come from that you're paying for the rent? So it would be funded with a capital capital outlay funds because

220that will cover the cost of the building. So it's either rent or debt that service that capital outlay can be used to fund. Okay. So the public money builds the school and then also pays the rent to the developer who owns the school. Okay. not exactly. Okay. I if you can clarify. Okay. I think so. I mean I'm I don't like the way this is set up. It's not at you. I just in general I know where you're coming from, but so there's a bond issued and the bond is paid back by the lease payments that they're making to the property owner who's now paying back basically the mortgage. Correct. Correct. So yes, the funds are public funds that they're getting that they're paying to a private entity. That's the part I know many of

221us on the board have had concerns about. but it's not like doubling up. Okay. and I don't know, but hopefully I my recollection, Mr. Palmarina can probably answer this. Didn't at some point didn't the legislature put in kind of a clawback provision so we wouldn't be in a situation where a private entity used public funds to build a building and then walked away owning the building. The answer is yes on that. So if it's if public money is used to build the building itself, like if they let's all be clear, this has been challenged multiple times up at the state and the state has signed off on this development arrangement, right? So if we had just used public money and public money built the building, we could claw back the building. But since this is

222being done by a private developer, they have insulated themselves from the clawback provision of this and the state has said all good. Thank you for that clarification. I remember feeling like that issue that our board when I first when most of us first got here had so much concern about was resolved. It was until the workaround. Okay, back to you. Okay, thank you for clarifying that. Thank you for allowing me to Okay. And then Okay, the next questions I have is Renaissance or Well, is Renaissance a hope operator? Not currently. Are you planning to apply to become a hope operator? Not to my knowledge at this moment. Okay. What about Charter Schools USA? Are they a hope operator or applying to be one or planning to? No. Okay. Well, PA operator earlier Warrington Preparatory Academy

223was listed. So, that school has grown to a C and that was on the list that was mentioned earlier and they are a school of hope. They are okay. Yeah, that was just I guess my well I guess the real question I have is if either you or chart or I'm sorry if either Renaissance or Charter Schools USA does become a hope operator, I just would want a confirmation that you would not try that Renaissance or charter schools USA would not try to make this charter school a hope a school of hope. Is that a question? I don't know if I can. Yes. So, I'm just asking if you can confirm that if you that if either entity becomes a hope operator that you would not or in any event that you would not try

224to convert this to a school of hope. I can't confirm that. I don't have the ability to confirm that. Our state superintendent would be able to speak to that. Okay. and then with respect to the questions that were asked before about the staffing, will will we know that before we vote on it or will we get an answer or are we voting tonight? Oh, okay. Great. Thank you. Okay, that's it for me. Thank you. But I think that I think we've gotten the answer that we're going to get on that. only because our staff has asked and I've asked and I mean how we do it at all of our schools is if we have more students we typically probably just like most schools do if we end up having more ESSE students then we

225add the potential staff that we need if you need that reflected in this we can certainly bring that back to the table as well. Yeah, I think and I'll go to the next person. The reason for asking isn't that I think you're not going to serve the students. I was just trying to figure out if your application says I'm going to have this many students, but your application says I'm only going to have this many employees. I think staff I think I'm trying to figure out where was that disconnect in the application because I'm sure that when the students arrive you're going you're going to need to provide for them. So that was if that helps. So I don't think there's a different answer that you can come back with. I get the answer when

226the students arrive you'll meet their needs. Yes. So let me go now to member Ferrant. I think there I'm sorry there were a couple things that you did say you'd get back to us on. I don't remember what it was but and FRL percentages. Yeah. Okay. Okay. School of hope. I think the answer I think I think the answer is okay. They're going to ask. Yeah. have made and then there are certain and maybe we've gone over this certain criteria that this board needs to consider when they have questions or concerns that there and Mr. Moody can help us with that. if a basis for a board member not wanting to support the application should that happen. There are certain considerations that we can or can't take issue with or not. I'm sorry, not saying

227that real well. So, this we're not looking for action today, right? this will come before you at a as a staff recommendation most likely December or early January. So, the board will need to take action on our recommendation. I would defer to the general counsel but I would say that it is obviously board decision. If if a particular board member did not approve or voted no for this recommendation then obviously it would be majority of the board. I if your question is can we add certain elements or recommendations or requirements within their contract I would say not outside of the traditional contract state contract the state contract Mr. Palmerini did I get that correct? yeah generally so do you agree with me Mr. Bomber Marin, you really trying to make me do that for a

228second time today? Thank you. So there is a model application evaluation instrument that has like 17 separate categories. Governance, educational plan, finance plan and Mr. Moody and his staff will go through that plan and it has three separate categories. It's meets the standard, partially meets the standard or does not meet the standard. Right? And so there are they're going to go through that. They're going to analyze that. I don't think that they've actually done that instrument and presented it to the board yet. If they have, I haven't seen it. So, and a lot of times when you have, let's say you have like 15 or 16 categories that meet the standard and one partially meets the standard, you would be hardpressed statutoily to turn it down, right? the things that you are going to look

229at to turn down an application is generally going to be does the education plan not meet state statutory requirements as far as reading and it doesn't you know it doesn't comply with the state's accountability standards. The other thing that will be able to you'll turn it down is if the finance plan doesn't adequately pay for and operate the school. And those are things that, you know, having dealt with Renaissance for as long as I have and actually having appealed Renaissance schools back 10, 12, 13 years ago, that they typically write statutoily compliant plans that the DOE will not and the charter school appeals commission will not overturn. Right? So those are the standards by which you all will judge it. you will get a model application instrument that says they either meet the standard, partially

230meet the standard, or don't meet the standard on those 17 categories. And then after we review that, you know, there are certain things that even if they partially meet the standard, the Charter School Appeals Commission will typically say that's stuff that you can deal with in your contract rather than the rather than denying them outright. Now with respect to the contract, we have to use the model contract that DOE has promulgated. we can't change the model contract unless be unless the entity the charter school entity agrees to it. because any change is seen as a deviation from the flexibility that is intended for charter schools. So, you know, we have done contracts with Renaissance where we have changed provisions to make sure that we're comfortable with their finance plan. We're comfortable with their education plan,

231but that's the general process that we have to go through. Okay. Yeah. So, I'll take this off. So, just so we really just have no we really have no discretion. It's 17 questions. Yes or no? That's it. That's the model application that we have to utilize or the model evaluation instrument, excuse me, that we have to utilize in analyzing them. We don't get to go outside of that. We say these are the 17 factors that we get to consider. They either meet the standard, they don't meet the standard, and if they don't meet the standard, you know, then our staff will explain why they don't meet the standard. And then we would have to look at that independently when we get to the final approval up or down to say is that sufficient in and

232of itself to turn it down. And quite frankly, the consideration you're also going to have to have is do we think that if you turn it down, the charter school appeals commission and the Florida Department of the State Board of Education will uphold our denial. So that's things that we would discuss at the final meeting. Thank you. I appreciate that. All right. Thank you. Member FR. you're recognized. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you all for being here and first of all for really caring about children and wanting to help kids get an incredible education. So, I appreciate you for being here and what you're doing for our communities and the different areas. I know you have one in my area, which is the Hunter Creek. but also really close to me is the Golden

233Rod campus, which that's really done a huge improvement. I think I visited there two years ago and they were a C or like a recent back. We were one point away from an A. Oh my goodness, that really is a huge huge testament to the hard work and so really excited to hear that. the really the only thing but I think you guys kind of explained it along the way here. you compared it to Hunter Creek, but I think your idea is you want it to be an A school is what I'm I'm gathering from what you're explaining. because really it seems maybe a little more in line with the population of Chickasaw. so I guess my question would be Chickasaw is a C. How long has Chickasaw been open? It opened in 2012. Okay.

234What are you doing currently to really help that school pull out of that? And I know school grades really can be frustrating. as we were just talking earlier, you know, we have schools that are working so hard and maybe in that C or even a D and they're working really hard trying to figure it out and help the kids. so it's not necessarily that the school isn't doing anything itself like the teachers. but what what would be some of the things that you guys are doing to really help pull the that school out of that C-grade? Well, we do we have been working and they have been improving every year. So, we're looking this year is going to be the year. it's the one of the highest grades we've had in a while. I know

235it was a B at one point I think in 2015. So, we are trending that way again. We do do a lot of tutoring. we pushed in a lot of ML support also. so we basically look at all of our students needs and try to accommodate them accordingly. So through tutoring, through small groupoup instruction, the things we do at a normal school we do there. We if it is 83% or free and reduced lunch, our title funds, we push in a lot of interventionist, extra support in the classrooms to be able to help meet the students needs there and get them to grade level. Okay. Awesome. Awesome. and then I think we also touched base on the like our at some point it was brought up about the ELLL population that you're going to be

236servicing in Apopka area. okay. Was the 600 I wrote down 600 ELLL. Is that for all the students or is that Apopka? That was Hunter Creek has 600 ML ELLL students and their free and reduced lunch I have it now is 55%. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I wasn't sure how many. And then you had said in Apopka you're expecting about how about 80ish students. Okay. so I think for me I would just like to see within the contract maybe just some language that says as students come and as the need arises that you would provide the staffing adequate. It sounds kind of like obvious because we do the same thing where we might say this is what we're going to have right now because this is how many kids we have to begin with.

237But I think it would be just beneficial for you to just kind of switch that up so at least it is very clear. We understand and then it's on paper and it makes sense. But I thank you for you know the service that you're doing for our students and families. one other thing I'm going to just say is I have seen several different schools that utilize the what you were talking about where parents the parent involvement. it does seem like a lot, right? Like from let's say your kid your school isn't doing it and you're thinking, "Wow, how are families doing that?" But there is something about when a parent has to invest in their kids school. there's it like they're putting their own two cents into it. They're putting their own efforts in and

238so they want to get more out of it. just like when you go on a trip, if you're, you know, wherever it is, like we do missions work. So if my kid were to raise funds on their own to go on that trip, they're going to get way more out of that trip than if I just paid for that trip on all for them. It's all paid. They haven't they don't see the value in it. And so it helps parents see that value. So I appreciate it. one question I have would be if let's say I know it was brought up, let's say it's a single mom and so she's working a lot, not able to really attend a lot of these, can a parent, a grandparent attend in their place? that type of thing.

239Absolutely wonderful. So, that's it's basically somebody from the family unit that is involved and engaged. I love it. I think it's great and something I'd like to see more of. So, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, Member Veron. we have perhaps it's member Salamanca on the line. Doc, Dr. Basquez, is it you? You buzzed in. Okay. I'm so sorry. I was thinking that was Well, we're both Maras. Yeah, there you go. Okay. so I have a question that did not come to mind earlier simply because I didn't recognize where the name came from. So, have you checked if the name Wild Oaks is trademarked by the developer? If not, I would recommend. I believe we were looking into it and I want to say with 80% certainty that it was not, but I'll

240double check. I would because you would not be able to move forward without their permission to use their name. So that was my question. Thank you Dr. Vasquez. I let me I actually am queued in right now guys but it just happens. member front this is you know we have the sunshine law so we don't get to have conversations. So member front I just wanted to clarify why I was asking about the volunteer. I completely agree with you. When parents get engaged, everybody wins. No question about that. The concern, and this goes back to, I think the very first charter school when my kids were, I don't know, like elementary school, was knowing that a parent who's not engaged and doesn't want to be engaged is not going to go to a charter school that

241says, "You need to be engaged." and that those kids need every bit as much help. And so that's why when the first charter school proposed was right near my kids elementary school, I thought, okay, all of the parents in my elementary school that were, you know, on on sack and on PTA, they were all like, I'm going to go there. And I was looking around thinking all the kids that are going to stay here are the ones whose parents don't care to volunteer. And so that was the weeding out thing that troubled me that our school was going to fall and those students were going to lose out because we were also going to lose teachers. It was kind of approaching, not intentionally. And it's I mean, absolutely, even like even if you had to

242drag a parent to get engaged, they would all benefit, but public schools, traditional public schools can't do that. And so that was the reason I brought that up. And it's not, you know, it's not relevant to the application. is just my personal feeling about making sure that all kids got get got the same level of care and quality. So, okay. Okay. member Felder. Thank you, Chair. Also, you guys have been very, very patient. Been here a long time. Thank you so much. And, thank you for your presentations. I just have just a couple of questions and maybe you said it but I guess I need clarification. all right. The counseling services you Okay. Were you going to be sharing that with another service? Were you a were you have an adequate counseling service there at

243the school when you open it? So, we typically opt into the Orange County mental health plan. So, that would be more than likely our plan at Wild Oaks as well. if there's a student who has counseling as a service as a related service on his or her IEP, though, then we do contract with counselors to deliver that service. So, you will have the adequate counseling that the children would need. Yes. Okay. Okay, the other question, so what are what are your strategies, as it relates to the, behavior concerns that some children may have that come to your school? How are you going to address that? Do you have somebody in place? Are you going to hire somebody to handle those learning strategies for students? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Behavior. Do you want me to

244take it? It's over here. I think. Okay. I think you answered it already. You did. That's what I said. I mean, it's okay. I mean we follow the code of conduct. if there is a need to go into MTSS for behavior, we would do that as well. Do a PEPIP on meet with the parents go through that process to get that student the services that they need. If there is a need for that otherwise if we can do it through positive behavior or other systems that we have in place at the school, we would do that also. Okay. And I think you probably did talk about the resiliency, right? We did. Yeah, you did talk about that. Flipped that up. And so one more question. I don't know whether or not you would have an

245answer to this like how many ESOL teachers will you have? And I mean yeah, how many the reason why I'm asking the question when I first when I was open Dr. Phillips in 1987, I was the Esau teacher and there there are various levels of children in Esau. You know what I'm saying? and they can't all some kids can speak some kids kids can some have little bit language so you need you need to have that divided so how are you working with that so currently we usually start with one when we open a school and determine what our needs are based off of when we do our first 20 days of testing what our enrollment says and then we build it from there we do require all of our teachers that service students to

246work on their ESA endorsement so they can provide provide those strategies in the classroom. We also have an area level specialist who goes in does walkthroughs at every school provides feedback to the teachers professional development we with the coordinators that we have alongside u as well you have mic. So the beauty of the ed model that was presented in the slides is that it does require datadriven decisions and differentiated instruction. So as we know our students MLS come in at different proficiency levels. They do. They Yes. So that's where the PD also comes in for the teachers to have the strategies and scaffolds to to support their language acquisition. Thank you so much. That is a concern, you know, that I have and I'm glad that's something that you have seriously considered for the students.

247That's all. Thank you. Thank you, Member Felder. Member Douglas. Thank you so much for your patience. We appreciate you being here. Lovely ladies. Thank you so much. And the gentlemen and gentlemen, lovely gentlemen as well. Just want to say and I just one of the questions because when you speak I think you're doing a lot of the things that you're doing are similar to what we're doing in Orange County Public Schools. So what makes you stand out really as a charter school that make you be almost like not a supplement to us but whatever the student don't get with us go to you they get what is a difference that you're making sure go ahead I'll follow up with you one thing that our stakeholders have really mentioned in our surveys and just in their

248testimonials has really been about how we personalize the educational learning experience for our students. even though some of our schools may be large in size, everyone knows their name, they have personalized plans, our acceleration models as well have been very strategic to student data. We use multiple forms of data. Our ed model is very data driven using more than just state assessments to make determinations on what's best for those students and I really believe that our virtues framework that is newer to our organization but really hones in on the character development. I really feel like that is a differentiator for us in building the whole child and you can add to that if you want. No, I think you're exactly right. Okay. Okay. I feel like that's what we're doing in Orange County public schools,

249but Okay. another question that Crown Crown Point Renaissance, where is it located? It's in Akoi. Where exactly? probably 10 minutes from It's about 10 minutes from the school that we're looking at in Apopka. Okay, I got you. Renaissance Charter at Crown Point. Yes, because Okay, thank you so much. I appreciate you. All right, that concludes board members questions. Dr. Vasquez, I'm back to you. Mr. Moody is going to close us out. Just thank you, Madam Chair. Just one final Mr. Mr. Palmerini mentioned the model app evaluation instrument that will be done that later this week, first of next week. So staff will send that to board members so that you can review that and then we will brief board members individually regarding that instrument and tool. Great. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. Thank you.

250thank you. All right, that concludes Thank you all very much. Thank you. I also I mean some somebody said it I forget who but thank you for your patience sitting through a very very long afternoon. Thank you. All right. Anything else come before the board? Dr. Vasquez, board members. Wonderful. The meeting is now adjourned.