001All right, I'm showing the 3:00 across the board and on the wall. So, we'll go ahead and call this special called meeting of Lash County Board of Education to order for November the 17th, 2025. We'll start with roll call. Miss Janet Ward, >> present. >> Miss Teresa Calhoun, >> present. >> Miss Polly Jones. Miss Diane Eldrich >> present. >> Josh Roen present as well. Next we've got on here is approval of the agenda. I do have one thing we might want to discuss next meeting in December kind of. We may have to change time frame on that. So if that's okay with you all, we could add that under discussion if that's okay. That's one thing I forgot about on there. So anybody have anything else? I'll entertain a motion to approve the amended agenda.
002>> I move we approve the amended agenda. >> Thank you, Miss Ward. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Thank you, Miss Calhoun. Any other questions, comments? All in favor, raise your hand. All right. Motion carries. Next, we'll open up with the pledge of allegiance. Aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. You sure? Personnel. So, we've got personnel on there. You emailed those out um to us on there. Does anybody have any questions for personnel? Hearing none. I'll entertain a motion to approve the personnel. >> I make the motion to approve the personel. >> Thank you, Miss Jones. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Thank you, Miss Calhoun. Any other
003questions, comments? All those in favor, raise your hand. Motion carries. Now, we'll jump into the meat and potatoes, as they say, on there of the 30,000 policies and updates. So, um I on your agenda here, I think we probably would need to start uh depending on how long the others take with the ones that actually uh need to be updated um by uh uh during the December meeting. Um that way we have them in compliance with the legislation. And so if we could start there, I think that would be helpful. There are these are policies we already have. They just need updated and there are six of them. >> Is that the one with >> policies that need updated due to recent legislation? That's one. >> Okay. >> And then of course you we'll bring
004them to the December meeting uh for formal approval, but I think we need to start with these particular policies first. >> No. Is it in its own folder? >> It it's it's if you click on assembly, it's I there only six of them. So, we in included them individually there. >> Um and then their special update table, it's already in there. Um just because um these are not in the necessarily in the 3000s. >> Okay. >> Um in fact, none of these are in the 3000s. >> Oh, we can just click on the >> you can just click >> the the page. Okay. And the policy table was one that I printed for you um last time too. There was a second policy table. >> So it looks like are we starting 3565 and 837?
005So, we'd start with 13 uh10 slash >> the parental involvement one which we've we've had on the books and really I wanted to share with you the update on three of the policies uh 1310402. >> We don't have where did we go to see it? >> It's under supporting documents here. >> Oh, it's item number two under action. My apologies. How about action? >> If you if you hit refresh, then it you'll >> Yeah, it's under number two under action. I was clicking on number one. >> It's actually number one now. >> Oh, it's okay. >> Guess what? It's number one now. >> I hit refresh. >> That's okay. >> All right. >> So, 1310 uh let me tell you the background on three of the policies. One of them or two of them are
006in the next series that we'll do in the 3000s, but parental involvement along with 3320 which is in a different it it's in the 3000s at school trips and 3620 which is extracurricular activities and student organizations. Um the the language that the school board added for these um and this is um based on legislation from this past summer um added um policies to address the new requirement that boards adopt a policy prohibiting students from sharing sleeping quarters with a member of the other biological sex during any activity or authorized school or author um authorized by a school except when authorized by the school in either of the following circumstances. Um, but you can limit it further and not give these circumstances if you don't want to. But the circumstances would be that the parents or
007legal guardians of all students sharing those sleeping quarters have provided written permission. And I don't know that we that's a lot of work on our schools um to be able to keep up with that and the permissions. and I I don't know if you really want boys and girls sharing rooms together. >> Um, and two, the member of the other biological sex, the students immediate family member. Now, that, you know, if it's a brother and sister, um, and a parent who are now sharing the same room for a field trip, that might be a different story for a brother and sister. Um, >> page 812, item 12. Eight, item 12. Okay, >> page eight, item 12. But anyway, that that was why um these three have specific changes to that policy. And again, I have
008reservations about boys and girls sleeping on the same um uh room together. Again, if it's a sibling, if you've got twins and a boy and a girl, I wouldn't mind I wouldn't mind that, but um I think it's dangerous otherwise. >> I would say no to all of it. The only consideration that I might have if their brother and sister or if their parents are with them is monetary saving money for, you know, hotel rooms. If you've got a family, that's different. But I think the parents should be there. >> Well, I I could say that. And I don't know about other families, but I've chaperoned lots of my kids field trips, and my kids always wanted to be with their friends, not with >> always. But what >> but you could limit that. >>
009Yeah, you could. >> Yeah, I agree with you on that. But at the same time, that might be the only way that they could go is if they could share a room. But >> we've we've been making a lot of concessions for families and trying to fund raise and make sure nobody misses out on a trip. So, >> I get that. But you could stop it at um uh member of the other biological sex during any activity or event authorized by school period. And then just take take away the exceptions and then not not have to worry about that. But I'll tell you, I chaperoned a field trip and with my child, it was an overnight field trip and I had boys, but that allowed me to do it, but they're talking about students, so
010there weren't any others in there, but they didn't share rooms either. >> Situation. >> I've never shared a room with any of my children that we went >> on a field trip. I'm just thinking if money is a problem, but shouldn't be. Maybe we can help them if it is. >> If we put a period after the authorized by the school or any event authorized by the school >> and then a parents want to sleep with their child, but the child is a different sex. >> Well, these still do that, can't we? >> Well, you could if with a per with a period because it says prohibiting students. students. So it doesn't exclude families. So I would think that we could just end with that period. I'd like to shorten things when we can. >>
011Agreed. >> And so that that um if you look at 13, they're all worded slightly differently. Um so 13104,000 and 2 22 um that's under number 12. So, it was added to it and we could um this one keeps unless this particular version keeps the unless it's a member of this immediate family member. Um or you could just delete it after um authorized by the school period. It's up to you all. I move we put a period after authorized by the school and delete the rest of it. >> That will be too much trouble for the schools. >> Certainly don't want them to be able to do it with parent permission like oh my lord no permissions. >> I'll second that motion J. I'm fine with that. Just doing that and the rest of it
012was um adopted in 20 in December of 23. So it was none of the other things had really uh changed other than that on that particular policy 1310 slash it's actually 4022 not 02 that was a typo on my part >> are we ready for a vote >> so will that will that policy okay be listed both places then because I thought we were trying to get rid of >> so what happens they all have these have cross um references so if it's in the 10,000s they'll come they'll come out >> just um >> unless it's otherwise not noted but several of our policies do have double um notifications sometimes like 400s are the student series and so this happens to be um like structure of the board I guess you could say uh which
013is uh which is where parental involvement is um but the others would be as regard to the student itself. So you'll notice that sometimes they cross reference each other. >> Okay. So Mr. Earl it it will be this parent the parent plan will be part of our school improvement plans when they are presented. Is that what I've not I heard you say that it would be addressed in the school improvement plan. Is that not what this says? >> Or no, maybe I misunderstood. They don't have to like this. This is uh the 13 um 10 like our title one uh plan includes parent involvement. It's not necessarily a school improvement plan. the state gives us certain goals >> um for that one and it's dressed a little differently, but the title like title one parent
014um family engagement, we had it addressed in our um strategic plan as far as parent engagement. So, um >> school sends home a PF every year. Yeah, they have to by law with title one send home a parent family engagement plan every year and every school has an individual who they send. Yeah. And that's federal. >> Okay. So, we're talking about the same federal. I'm just not using the right language. Okay. >> Probably >> because they change it so often. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I was reading here parents of students in title one school child receive a copy of the systemwide entitlement and family engagement policy and schoolwide parent involvement plan. So, there is a document that goes home and is posted on our website that has all of the things that we the parental
015notices that we have to give every year and it's updated every year. Um, and it's directly on our website and it's something that goes um we we give the notice to parents every single year and it's like 18 or 20 pages long. It's ridiculous. >> It is. It is. >> They do. There's one part of that where they have to even sign saying they saw it and return it back and that's not really get audited. That's what we not for every student but we have example of and we send home the other and it has a thing I want it uh in writing or like or tell them where it's actually seen because you know printing off 18 pages or 20 pages for every family is a lot. So, it's posted online and then we
016have we have a handful each year that ask for it. >> So, they can ask for it if they feel like they need it. >> Yes. >> Oh, yes. Yeah. >> Okay. >> It's in Spanish, too. >> Anything we send from the parents has to be in a book >> until I get through. >> Okay. So the next policy and of course these will be brought back to the December meeting for a final vote. >> Um so the next policy um in that is 4120. And this particular policy um has quite a few changes. So it talks about the doicile residence requirements. Um and of course uh there's parts that are specifically so if you look down to um some of it's legal language that's just required. So that's what um the first three bullets
017um are. So in especially C and D um it's strongly recommended for E. And so if you look down to E um that particular language is for if we have a JOTC um we do it's recommended um it's not required but strongly recommend. And it says a homeschool student who resides within the assigned area of a school that maintains uh JOTC unit shall be permitted membership in the JOTC unit without regard to doicile if the student is otherwise qualified for membership um but for lack of enrollment. And so, um, I would, um, me personally, if they're going to come only for JOTC, we do not, they're not counted as one of our students. I think that they should have to at least be um, uh, enrolled halfime because that's the requirement to meet um, for
018our student enrollment. And you guys have the flexibility to change that. They're trying to in this language, they're trying to give more um flexibility for students who choose not to enroll in Nash County schools. Um I'm fine if they come half a day and um you know take that many classes with us. Um I just don't want to give them a seat when others perhaps cannot student because that means we'd have to push out full-time students to a language is different. That's the same requirement for athletics. >> It's the same requirement for athletics, too. >> I I would prefer that they that they um have to be enrolled at least um half a day. >> I'll just use that for >> half a day or how many um classes? You don't have to do You
019do not have to do that. >> Half a day, >> right? a half a day or half the number of classes that are half or more number >> three. Yeah. >> So in fact so we might I don't know how we um weation from you. Okay. >> I just need a cough drop. >> I got a cough drop. You >> allowed to have those. She said >> take it anyway. >> So why did they why did they add this this way different from anything else? Is it just their recommendation? >> That is the recommendation. >> not all districts have ROC and um not all districts allow any participation by homeschool students. >> No, we do. We have some students who come um we have their halftime >> this year. You Julie, I know you've been
020working on some of that lately. >> They've moved to the high school. We have >> most of Mosa is enrolled full-time at the high school. >> Okay. I know we have one, which is great. She's been homeschooled her whole life and she's have time. She's she's going to turn full-time, I think. But I think we might still have one or two in the next week. Okay. I I personally think you should keep it the same as athletics if that that's the requirement of athletics because you have a lot of folks that want to do athletics that do homeschool. And I don't really understand why you'd have this different than those requirements. Same way if they want to participate in band, >> right? If it's band, you still have to take another class or two depending
021on the schedule. So if we offer five classes, then they would have to take three of the five. It just has to be half or more. >> In logistics, does half um a half-time student um count in the daily membership, those hours count in the daily membership? That helps bring us more funds. And if they're going to be in a teacher's classroom taking a seat that someone else might want, then I think the half day makes perfect sense. >> Well, it also allows >> us in multiple ways. It allows us to count them so that we can get um additional support as well and if not they would not count toward us and we would have them receive perhaps taking away from somebody who is full-time >> but not gaining any money. >> It seems
022really strange that they would mention >> just that >> just JTC >> because it's why isn't athletics part of this one? I know we have a separate policy. We debated that one several years ago, but why it just seems really strange to me that that would be embedded in this about doicile, which >> well it I I don't know the answer to that, but I think part of it might be the way the funds come in from ROC. Um, you know, we pay a portion of it, but the rest is paid for by um well, it's federal, but it runs through the state. So, it may be it may be that, but I don't know the answer to that. >> Well, I would think part of it is that for high school students that are
023homeschooled, this is a a career track that they can't get training in at home. So, >> true. >> We couldn't make a policy for all of the different groups, could we? like just pile it all into one meaning band, Roro. >> So, we have um we haven't discriminated um as far as um courses are concerned if a student wants to take unless they're already full or have caps. So, some of the CTE programs might already have caps whenever the request comes in and you're not going to open up another section for one child. Um or it may be that um a certain class is not offered during the time that they can be there. >> So um but we do accommodate as much as we can and a lot of them choose to take through
024us um some of the community college classes because they actually get support through us that they don't get by enrolling directly into the community. >> Are we having more requests? We we have a pretty considerable homeschool base now. Are we having more requests for these types of >> We have quite a few students at the high school now who have come back who have come back directly to Ash County High School and Ash County Early College High School um in the last several years um directly from home school. Yeah, Miss Williams probably has four or five um at least who who come back and then a lot of times in middle they want to do it because they're like gym they're really heavy into rodeo or gymnastics and that yeah flexible >> and we do
025have some kids that have some real talents in other areas and so they might take a class through us but not necessarily on our campus. It gives them different access, but then they do have the flexibility for participation in rodeos popular around here. >> On a side note, I heard Luke from the soccer team announcing he's going to Spain next year. I hadn't heard that. That's exciting. >> Doing that. >> He's very excited about it. And I had Luke when he was in the fourth grade. And >> I imagined you did. And I had to take my tennis shoes because we went out to recess and every day we played soccer. I recessed them every day. Got a whole bunch of boys. So I'm very excited about that. But anyway, the reason I was asking
026is as far as policies are concerned, do we need to address how we're going to handle it can change our numbers and often they don't tend to follow the same schedule as school. Um, correct me if I'm wrong, Julia or whomever, but they come in like in October >> that if it's October, it's beyond our um >> they have to start with the school starts. So, what about the elementary schools and the middle school? >> You mean to come in time? >> Enroll in like to count and give or is that what you like to count in our >> AM? The the first 10 days >> first 10 days is a well >> it's the f it's the best of two it's the first month or this the first 20 days or the second 20
027it's the best of the first 20 days or >> best one of two >> yes that's one >> best of the first 20 days or the best of the second 20 days >> he's example few years ago >> we have 100 first graders on day 40 we at 102. We count the 100 >> and they do it by grade level by 20day increments. >> Yeah, he Friday he had to do the class count. >> So we technically we have 25 students today. We technically could could have eight. We could have our best one of two of 2510 because it takes higher than two. >> I understand but I'm just kidding. You're just getting the best of whichever of the two. >> That's smart. >> Yeah. Whichever's the higher is what you take. >> Whichever one
028>> and that's what they use for the next year. >> So, say day 65, we get some more students. They don't go we don't get no benefits from that. >> We do not. Now, we do have students that come in um >> beyond the 40 days, especially during Christmas tree and pumpkin season, and they've never counted for us. We just um sometimes you just have to get another teacher or write for an exception. >> That's why you have flexibility in the >> K3 class size enrollment gap. >> So if we get close, we add we have to add somebody um if we think that there might be an influx in a certain grade level. That's very difficult to predict especially in those early early grades if they're not already ours or that we don't know
029that they're returning like they did in the year previous >> and the state wouldn't allow for us to say 20 students coming in during pumpkin and Christmas time. >> No, we're not allowed to go over class size at all without that exception beyond that 40 days. >> Is it plus three? >> It's plus three. So, I mean, you know, the chances of us to have, you know, four kids in one grade level that you can't split into um multiple classes uh for a short period of time is not common, but in 2016, we had 100 kids at Mountain View alone, right? >> That was one of our last biggest years. I think >> more of those families are more permanent than >> they are. They become more permanent. And feeding off about what I think
030Diane said about and maybe um Teresa on the ROC, it's the only reference for homeschool students. It seems to make sense to me that we maybe put a sentence in there that expands this that mentions that homeschool students could take um part-time classes, a half-day program at the high school. Unless you think that that's not a necessary thing to list here. But if if I was a homeschooled parent looking for options through the your policies for parent involvement or wherever I was looking, do you have it somewhere else where it expounds that? >> So we do have it in some procedures, but let me check to be sure that we're not putting it twice in different wording of a of a different place >> because you've got it someplace. We don't need to expand it
031here. I think the first time I can remember ROC being mentioned, >> it is because it's part of the new law that you that um >> yeah, >> they specifically mention it. It's recommended, not required, but it's strongly recommended for anybody with this, but I would I would I would prefer it say that they take two classes or more so that they're actually enrolled. that way it comes with a lot more documentation that um it's a partly a safety thing too. >> Do we have any kids that are remotely enrolled because of military? >> Um I don't think so. >> Right now we don't. >> We've had we had them because we're not close to a base. >> We had some odd things happen during CO but I'm not sure they were military related like
032that. >> But we do there's potential that we've had them. >> We do have students who are only taking online classes, which that's fine. I mean, if you think about uh my own child, especially during COVID when things weren't even offered, there were a couple of semesters that he was here that they only offered the classes he needed online. So, um I think there's always going to be most of those were through the community college. Actually, all of them work through the community language, but um you we have those that take a combination of things and aren't physically present on campus. I would recommend against that, but if you have a kid who has a special talent, um years ago, I had a student that um played semi-professional tennis and so he was being trained
033and all of his classes were online. So if we can accommodate families, we will as best as possible. >> And usually those are, you know, great kids that are that perform in other ways that they don't necessarily need a lot of the wraparound supports that we offer, although we would offer it to them too. So, >> so you want So, do you all want to add as far as uh if they're enrolled half time? So, for E >> I think so. >> I think that's consensus. >> Yes, I think that's fair for us. And then what was added 20 in in change in section G to reflect the state board of education authority over athletics. X. >> And it's not just residency requirements for athletics. Um, they also have to have had um earned certain
034credits and you can't come in and out for athletics. So, for example, if you come first semester because you're a a soccer player and then second semester you go home school again, once that happens, I don't think you have the ability to reenroll. You have to stay concurrently enrolled for athletics. So, but that's also in the in a different handbook for athletics, not necessarily in policy because those things change. >> How can we make them? Um, well, you you really can't because >> I just wouldn't be allowed to play next time. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Almost like a dead period. >> Yeah, it's it's like a dead Yeah, you can't have that type of a dead period. >> Well, and then on top of that, there's um attendance requirements. So, you you really have
035to maintain that um consistently once you're enrolled. However, um you know, I wouldn't necessarily put it in this policy because they changed they've changed their mind on attendance at from an athletic standpoint what couple of times in the last couple of years, saying different things. So, >> we'd always be trying to catch up on that. >> You guys good with 4120? >> Yep. So the next one so is 5070 and this is Amy's expertise what we're going through public records retention release disposition ition. Um, we feel a lot of these public requests all the time and it's usually vendors sending out mass things, wanting all of our teachers information and usually most of what we receive, we're very fortunate. Most of what we receive are marketing points, >> marketing points, like people trying to market
036to our teachers. >> Yeah, I've had several those lately. So, um, think there's a lot of wiggle room in this one. The law said you have to comply. >> You think there's not a lot of room, right? >> Of course. >> So, >> and in fact, we have to u it just about kills me every year to pay what we have to pay to keep this documentation in a searchable format. It is ridiculous. Um, it's a lot of money. >> What kind of a format? >> Format. Yeah. >> So, when you look at 50 um slash70 um it is the it's all it's the changes that are in here are required. So I understand pointing time is something we >> It's required. >> Are there any wiggle room at all in this one? >> The
037public uh records? No, not to my knowledge. I we're I mean everything. We don't really have anything that's outside of what they probably couldn't find readily online. We just don't have it put together in a place that um would be easy. And most of these requests um again are just their title, their position, how long they've been in that position, that kind of thing, which you take some time to pull together. Um but it's nothing that's not public. So therefore, you know, we have to give have to give it to them. >> Do we have any training on FURPA other than I mean, do we have any training at all or our folks on FURPA? We do. >> Yeah. >> When when do we do that? >> We do it at sometime the beginning of
038the year to all the schools >> and you conduct a pera >> and confidentiality. >> Well, that and it's also on vector. So, every year they do it in their vector training that they have to go through. Um, but they confidentiality there and Susan went out to every school individually to remind them. We're also required to post our regulation. >> Correct. >> Which we do >> and even for EC um that's also given out to parents at their meetings and stuff. So some of them get multiple times. Everybody good with that one? >> Yep. >> Don't sound like we got a choice. >> No, please. >> So, the um next um policy is 6340. And um this is essentially um Part of it is background checks and what we have to um have to do.
039There's actually a state list for us contracting with like a tour company that's going to >> what's that? >> It's an approved >> school bus school bus list. And so we have to go through that all the time. So you can't just hey call up a tour company and arrange a tour. it has to be through um an approved list because they go through all the background criminal history check etc. Now with employees that are ours we have an an pretty extensive um um background check. So but anyway and then um liability coverage you know they have to have their liability coverage etc. So >> there's nothing no changes on this one. I mean there there are but it's um nothing that >> it's required. >> Okay. >> But then can we go on the
040next requiring the the criminal history check? >> Well and we already do it. So this is to me even some of the things are strongly recommended as far as the type of check but to me we do it anyway. >> Gotcha. >> So how much money do we allocate every year for these? Um I don't know what the >> It depends and we have to pay it anytime that we do it but >> I don't know the exact number expensive >> 35 >> per person >> $35 per person probably. So every time we hire somebody or even when we're trying to we have several people we've not hired because their criminal history come back. So, and then um like we contract even with uh v certain vendors if they're going to be working during the
041day with kids um they have a have a background check um you know the companies are supposed to have a extensive background check before they can work in our schools anyway but we go >> we go above yeah we go above and beyond >> and I don't remember if it was this one or not but I think remember reading through in one of these that you had to redo criminal checks. >> It wasn't That's one I was looking at. Anyone who worked with the kids had to be re another criminal check every three years. >> That's a good >> That's not this one, but >> there's one that I looked at. I didn't know. >> It's in this group. >> It's the um >> that can be really expensive. >> 4120. I believe I put
042it down. It's prek. >> Prek has to have it every three years. >> But it didn't say prek. It said anyone working with children. >> Where is that one at? I know what you're talking number. Well, this particular policy here is specific with transportation, right? >> So, >> that one's one I would probably >> who yet >> recruitment and selection of personnel. There you go. >> Yeah. History >> 7,100 in that. So um so the criminal history so reporting of arrest, charges and convictions and of course any um person who is working for us has to report it to uh their direct report which eventually makes it to um Dr. Mochin and myself other than a traffic ticket or something lesser than a traffic ticket. um they must report the alleged violation within 24 hours.
043So, or if they've been jailed within 24 hours of their release, >> right? >> But haven't we had these are supposedly new, have we not had that one before? >> Oh, yeah. It's these are all those are new policies. These are policies that we already have >> recently updated. >> These are the ones that have to be updated by law and the actual law. Um it adds language clarifying the legal standards and um uh statutory information about the criminal history check. So these are um our postal um the HHS um criminal background check also because they transport >> and that's the highest standard of background check that they do. I mean that's pretty extensive >> just for me being newbie is a bus driver get the do is their background check more in depth than
044say a substitute teacher or somebody that comes in >> no when they go through the HHS yes because it go back correct um a deeper search about also it hits the sex sex offense It's any type of criminal offense, felony or other. >> Okay. >> And then registered with the state down at Department of Health and Human Services. Um, and they contact us and they're on they're on the registry there that we have to make sure that we keep up with and get monitored every year to make sure that everybody's date and we have to show them when they come twice a year of us. We have to show them on the list based on that check to make sure that we're keeping up with >> and we require background checks even if they are
045coming from another school system. >> We background check everybody. >> How much does that cost us a year on average? >> I don't know. just curiosity >> because I think doesn't PTO like people that's part of PTO don't they have to go through a background check if they volunteer in at a school or something like that? >> So there is a different they're different levels. So if you are if you have any chance of being alone with a child, which most of them are not, >> but that's the same background check that we would do um for our employees. >> Um if they're just coming in to eat lunch with their kid, not >> right. So, even contractors, they have to buy if they're sending like we had switches put in a couple weeks ago,
046even if it was after hours, they had to provide uh background checks on all of anybody who's going to be coming into our schools. >> Perfect. Okay. >> $1,500 for every DHS. That's just they've already gone through um our school systems that substitutes they can teach for prek teachers >> but that would be cheaper than any litigation you'd have to go through if something happens. So I mean >> so I mean that's cheap compared to >> you know something >> I think it's better to be proactive. So my guess is probably >> $2,500 a year we spend >> $35 a piece times you know how many other people >> and I have no objections to those charges so it's a minimal compared to >> okay never mind Dr. But that includes the drug screen. >>
047Oh, okay. I was going to say the drug screen. >> Um, yeah. I wasn't even thinking about the drug screening because that's separate. So, that would it would probably be double what I said. >> We totally went off this policy. Sorry. >> That's okay. >> Bring her back. Let's bring her back. >> These are these are good questions. Um, >> is everybody good with that one? >> Yeah, we're good. Right. >> So, the last one on this one is um 7820. >> Oh, we skipped 7100. >> Okay. Yeah, I knew that. >> That was Yeah. So, this is personnel files. Um and the um so um this one is uh language. It's just in the first paragraph that really changes. It adds language in the first paragraph clarifying the legal um legal standards. Um it
048also adds some statutory information on the background checks that was updated in the other one. And then there are a couple of them that are recommended. Um if you'll go down to C, um under C it's placement of records and personnel file. Um, so, um, it's it it reorganized the way that it was put in here. It's essentially the same information, but um some of them are um submitted immediately and some of them um you if there's a plan of improvement, it may be held in a separate file, for example, but it is for documentation purposes. So maybe just not included in their permanent um personnel file. So, if you have a beginning teacher that needs a little bit of extra, you might not put something directly in there, but it might go in the
049next one if there is a next one. That way, it doesn't stay with them forever. >> Can the employee see their personnel files? >> Yes. >> Do they have to sign off on anything that goes into the person? Typically we have them sign >> like a letter of complaint or I mean I've heard now that does if they refuse to sign it still goes in there anyway >> but they refuse to sign they probably won't make it very much longer. So yeah well do me a favor that that bothers me that C is on one page and all the information is on the other page if I were >> sorry. Okay. Yeah, >> I'll see what we can do about spacing. >> Yeah, that that bothers me. Um because it needs to be with the
050information, not up there floating around by itself. >> Trying to find it quickly. I just went right past it and I go back two times. >> That'll actually correct the next one down. It shouldn't pop it to the next page. >> D does the same thing. Yeah, I know. But if I get C down, it'll put it automatically fix the rest of >> Maybe this one was the one I had a question on. F >> my >> I don't see a need for anything further on that one. So nothing else really changed except for those y >> reorganization and that new sentence >> bring those to no you know it has there is a new section G about um stuff that's posted online it's already posted online so you know we're already in compliance even
051though it was not reflected in the um in the policy >> so an an employee shouldn't be surprised by anything that's in their file >> at all. They should be informed that this has happened and this is >> absolutely >> no one else should be looking I mean >> and they're double locked. >> The only people that really have access would be their immediate supervisor, the employee and Susan and I. body else has access to it. >> I seen in there somewhere >> wants access to it. >> I seen in there where they could put somebody's name down if they wanted to. Where was it? It was under D. Let me see. Hold on. The following persons may be permitted to access personal file with payment. Find Let me find it. Oh, an employee can
052give written consent to the release of his or her records. >> Correct. Correct. >> But nobody else like can get into it. >> Correct. >> It to a lawyer unless it's court order or something like that. >> Yeah. Well, and the board attorney has access to it. So, if there's ever question >> Okay. >> Fred's heard more than he wants to hear. >> Sure. Sure. That's good. All right. Is that it for that one? >> That's it. >> Okay. >> So, for good, we'll bring those to with the minor corrections. Um and then also the kind of bigger correction to the 1310 and then the other two which we'll go through in a minute because um we'll bring that to the December meeting. So the next under the 3000's policies for update um we have
053quite a few of them and those are in that uh folder where you can give um feedback comments but most of these are in um are in the policies with minor changes. Um, and then um, no, I'm sorry, wrong one. We did all those minor changes. >> Yeah, >> it was Hold on. It was the substantive changes. Yes, >> so that would have been the first thing under box. >> So, that will take me to the link. See if I can >> We start at 3,00. >> Um, so we would start with uh 3,200. >> Gotcha. Yeah, we went through some of those. We >> went through some. >> So, we will start with and I tried to put them in numerical order on the uh it won't show up that way in the I
054think they show up at the end going up to the beginning depending on how but you can reorganize it when you get into the folder itself. >> What about 3200? So, um 3,200 um through 3640. See if I can get it. So, 3,200. um that this particular one is um selection of um uh instructional materials. Um but this one um really reflects the biggest change is textbook to reflect the definition change of what a textbook is because that could include uh technology materials and there were some minor um updates. Minor uh meaning um uh >> just editorial and then legal and cross references are updated. Ed passport on the same >> No, >> it's not Google and Sim. >> It's not letting me at the drive. Are you signed in to your G your Ash
055County schools? >> I'm hoping >> I can't I usually help >> Amy to the rescue. >> She can fix anything. It's want me to use I'm in the right account. >> I was going to say sometimes I have user error should be the same as your father. Yeah. And then it has a consequence. You might have >> now we we changed that. We changed the other one. Hang on. >> Are you 3200? >> 3200. >> I don't even have >> I don't know where I'm at. >> Oh, it's in a different folder. >> Go back to your email, >> right? >> Well, no, it's in a I want to touch that screen so bad. >> See, here's my Google. you've got here and it's the policies with your home. >> I have not seen that
056screen at all. >> You gave me something >> and I've never had to use it since >> No, she's in the >> Amy. >> Yes, >> Miss We're trying to get her to this screen where she see all the >> find that folder. >> She's in there. How do we get to the folders? Show me at home, but it won't let me do it here. >> Did you make it? >> Huh? >> Did you make it? Don't have it. >> I don't think so. >> Okay, let me let me see somewhere changes. Is that it? We just did those >> subjective changes. No, that >> we did part of them. >> We've done part of them, but we ended >> there. Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Very little. According to my notes, we did 3200.
057>> Well, but remember was pulled at the last >> Oh, that's right. Sorry, I was I was looking at my notes. Sorry, my >> I skipped last meeting notes. So, yeah. Gotcha. >> Well, where I'm at, I'm I'm seeing the summary sheet, but I'm not seeing the actual policies. I'm seeing the the summary of what each policy is and the changes needed. >> So, you need to I'll show you for let's just change it along and just change has one too. Okay, I went by to pick I think we've got everybody back up. >> I think we got everybody back up. >> Teacher's voice. >> I don't have a fine. >> Okie do. We'll get back to it. Somebody need it. >> We only got till 6. >> Let's go. >> Glad to move it,
058people. >> We're done at 6. Going home at me, too. >> Have we got all the computers? >> I think we got all the technology up today. So, we're on policy >> policy 3200. No, no, there's hanging cars. We're pause. >> Yeah, let's finish. >> So, we took a little recess there, technology recess, and we're back and we're at policy 3,200. >> Okay, that that was the one that I asked to be pulled again because I just wasn't happy with how it read. and uh no personal anything intended to anybody sitting in this classroom. But as a national board certified teacher, I'm going, okay, so you're telling me that I've got this group of children here who have all these needs and I have my standards over here and it's my job to pull those
059students from there to meet the standards or exceed the standards if I can to get as close as I can. But I don't have the right to say I can use this material or this material. I have to go, what about those teachable moments? I was thinking of all those folks that I tried to help to get their national boards and I can just say, oh well, I did lesson number 29 in uh Whitten Wisdom. That's what I did because it is so scripted. And part of it's my personal bias against those scripted materials. I get that. I'm trying to get past that. But at the same time, this needs to be simplified. There needs to be teacher input more in this. Um, and I look at the high school, none of theirs is that
060way. They're lucky to even have a textbook. So, they're coming up with their own. They are using supplementary materials all the time. Are we applying this? Will we apply this policy equally to those folks that don't have textbooks? I'm thinking about fifth grade science books. Those things are older than not quite as old as I am, but some of my students that I had that have grandchildren now, they're old. They're not they're having to supplement a lot of that. Do we take those materials and have them approved by a committee and have them supplemented? Do we have time for that? Do we have do we have enough teacher um do we have enough planning time for that? Do we have enough or are they expected to do it at home? Um I see Dr. Cox
061nodding her head. Yes. But I've never been able to do everything at home. I mean, I take my stuff home and have some spell. >> Well, I do too, but you know, things have changed. I see Julie there. Julie, I know took it home. I know Casey took We took it home. I know Polly took it home. Probably Janet took it home. But at the same time, are we making it more difficult for these folks to do the things they need to do when we have to go what is the com, you know, I think we finally agreed it had to be the school improvement plan. Well, who knows more about my class than me? It's the knowledge of the students. It's the knowledge of where we are and what we need. So, there needs
062to be a compromise in here somewhere about how this supplementary materials is it a whole learning unit or is it, oh man, they had the neatest thing on Nebulos last night and and can we use that teachable moment kind of thing. So I think it needs to be better defined on what's considered a supplementary material and when those supplementary materials may be used and the I would like to see the process of what a teacher would have to go through in order to have that done. Is it am I making any kind of sense here at all folks? I just think that the this policy is very cumbersome. It doesn't answer those questions for me. Um, you know, I agree that it and I also agree that some of us are more um selective in
063the supplementary materials that we might use. and that some folks who may not have as much experience or who might need more guidance or who may uh whatever for whatever reason may need more structure but you know >> I'm thinking in deter and I'll give you I'll give yeah in just a second please let me get all this out and then I I appreciate your patience but at this point at this point where do we quit trusting our teachers and not let them serve our students as they think they should. Where's the balance and um and I looked up fidelity. I looked up fidelity and that word means loyal to. It doesn't mean scripted. So, I'm wondering and I know why the textbook company wants us to do it that way. So they can say
064they're the reason for the improvement. But I've done my research and teachers are the number one reason students improve, not materials. So if we're going that materials are the most important thing and I as a teacher am not to be trusted to to do the right things for my students. And yes, there should be guidance. And that's what Dr. Mochen is doing a very good job of is providing that guidance and providing those structures where new teachers learn how to do these kind of things. But what about our experienced teachers? Do we trust them or do we not? And at what point do we trust them? Have we had any conversations with them about this policy? Um did they tell you what materials to use, Paulie? You know, the state has the state has a
065curriculum guide and I'm not saying we should follow the state has a curriculum guide and for 10th grade they had a reading it's because I've been through book banning with 10th grade students so that and if it's on you know they have a reading guide they have the curriculum guide and I obviously you're going to choose things that are uh pertinent to what the child's using. I mean, I didn't feel any I didn't feel any kind of worry about picking things out that would supplement when I read Night or My Forbidden Face or whatever I chose to read. The only book I was told by Nancy H by Nancy and I Miss Hannah, what was her name? >> U Kathy Kathy was when I first moved over to the high school, the only book she
066says, "Please don't read Beloved because the students are not uh sophisticated enough to read Beloved." even though she had taught it at Bibler Creek, but I had to make my I had to put my books together with what I had from the three high schools. And I said, you know, when I was told by a student I couldn't teach Genesis out of my 10th grade book, and it was in the 10th grade literature book that I was given by the state department to teach it. I said, well, just watch me do it. We're going to do it. It's Jewish literature. We're, you know, and you're going to have a test on it, so pay attention. I mean, I never did fear that I was going to get to anything other than I had a couple
067parents complain about one about white on the western front of all things because it had the word damn in it. I mean, I I I never, you know, and of course they had the people in the media center had u I guess on it because you surely cannot get to a doll's house, let me tell you. If you do, you don't want to go there, >> right? But you can get there if you put a doll's house written by Ipsson, you know. So I mean I this and this never bothered me. If you're talking about a if you're talking about AP or something like that, you have to make a program for them. I mean last year I was there, last year I there you could not teach AP unless you made them a complete
068itemized and mystic program of what you were going to teach and how you were going to teach it and they had to see you make their okay for it. That's I mean, you know, I'm a board certified teacher in English, too. And I I don't uh I never worried about I never worried about what I taught. I mean, I wouldn't be foolish now if a kid came to me and I had one come to me and said, "I can't read Sedartha." My parents said, "I can't read it because it's Hinduism." Okay, that's okay. I'll give you another book. Why fight it? Teacher next door. >> And we by law have to do that, too. >> Yeah. And and it's true. and the and and aren't the aren't most of the things down where parents can
069see them if they want to see them and and and had to pardon came running to me one day and said I have a student can't read McM because there's three witches in it and I want to go to the cemetery >> but that's okay give the child something else to make why are you worried about it >> there's multiple examples of where I under this ruling could not have your when I was teaching bring in supplemental materials like I brought in a whole shelf of cookbooks and I brought in little children's reading books for my child development students to practice reading with feelings so that young children would be engaged that kind of thing. I didn't have any restrictions like this where I had to get everything approved through. I'm assuming this means anything
070you bring in that's not on the state standard you're going to have to get approved. that can that seems kind of restrictive but in our new culture it's also >> safety based and so I think although it would be more difficult for a person to at the last minute decide this would work really well with a lesson plan for I think one of the ones for example when I was teaching um parent and child development family life cycles I brought in the newer version of the family merging of two family military families to have 20, you know, like 19 kids. One had nine and one had 12 kids or something like that. And the students were watching the movie and making evaluations of how difficult it is to do a blended family, what were the
071problems, how did they solve them, that kind of thing. But I didn't have to get approval for it. Today, I think we need more stricture. I don't know if it needs to be this strict or if we need to put an exception in there to allow for some, but I can see the pros and cons. And I understand where Dian's coming from because I know I didn't have to do this when I talked. That's goes back a long time. >> You have to be careful because teachers are very unwise in bringing in movies to show that are not not appropriate that should not be brought from home. You should never bring a movie from home to show in schools. my personal opinion, it should come from the media center. I mean, because you can get
072in trouble really quickly and >> and even with that, you know, you should you better have read it and watched the whole thing. >> Yeah, you better I >> Yeah, you need to read what you're going to teach before you teach it. >> I think the thing is, and I get where you're coming from, we're we're all we definitely are not disrespecting uh veteran teachers. Um, in fact, we honor them. We we need them every county and that's why we involved everybody because back in the day I know we had committees and I was on one one time and it was three of us who chose the whole textbook for the whole school. That's really not fair. And so um I think the thing see I disagree I don't think Whitton wisdom is is script
073at all. It is it to me it is definitely not. I think the ones who feel that way, it's such a change for them that it's it's hard and we've recognized that. Now, do I think Letterland integrity is? Yes, because it has to be. If it's not, it would not work at all. So, I think just historically, anytime we try something new, uh, or any kind of if a program, even though quitting wisdom is not a program, um, people feel that it locks them down. But in my opinion, I think they still have um a lot of freedom in that the way they deliver that because I agree. I think Casey, everybody in here would say >> with the curriculum that's not ever what's going to do it. It's never going to be ready and
074wisdom this math. It's always going to be what that teacher does with it. So, I really wish my kids would have had the Wit and Wisdom curriculum because I if so, they both would be better writers. They both would have more content. They they both and and and this just and we've heard from parents because we had those 17 or 19 days and a lot of the complaints where they don't they don't know things like they used to know and the high school teachers will say they're just not coming to us knowing that background. And I'm not criticizing teachers because I know they work hard. But what was happening, I think, why we needed this consistency. Number one, it's the law, but but because we also saw evidence of I totally understand it because I
075was tested in two subjects. Teachers were not they were teaching reading excerpts and that's not teaching reading. And I know you hate that too. Teaching to the test. Why did they do it? They feel the pressure. They're color coding it. I mean, I understand full 100% why they do that. I've had tests on my name that I want to look good. I want my kids to do well on it. But standards were being skipped. We had we had teachers Diane not teaching math and lower grades. Not even teaching math. And that's when we let them do what we want to do. And so we need to hold not only ELA fidelity, but we need to hold science and we need to hold math. And we can't skip standards because even though maybe in third grade
076or fourth grade writing is not tested, it sure is when they get older. And really if we don't get those foundational skills taught in K and one, then we have really hurt a student's livelihood. This is I mean I take it that serious. It is their livelihood and we have to get them literate and I don't think we can leave it to chance. And I think, you know, being the federal program directory director probably really drilled this in my brain that we have to provide for every single Ash County student equity. And so how do we do that? We we allow teachers to work together so that the veterans well I'll use Emma Sex and I she was a veteran. I was new. We helped each other and we worked brilliantly together. I'm not bragging,
077but we did because of her expertise and and my new ideas. We blended those and we worked together and we did the same things. And I just want to see that environment for all our grade levels. >> I'm not complaining about Witten Wisdom, per se. It's just that I do think it's inappropriate for kindergarten. I won't change that. But I do I do like a lot of the aspects of Witten Wisdom and I'm always about the standards. What I'm concerned about is this makes it very hard for me to pull it. Let Dylan for example, my Dylan, he he did not give me a hard time. He did everything I asked him to do. He went down the hall and gave him an absolute he total fit. And I asked him why. And he said
078because you let you bring me chicken books and you let me read about chickens. He was very brilliant, but he was a as brilliant students normally are, they're consumed with one thing at a time. They'll but but he but we've got to develop those student interest as well. We've there's got to be a balance here. I agree with you. But if we get too much, oh, it's got to be this, this, this, and this. Then we lose that creativity. We lose those teachable moments. we use lose that knowledge of students that makes that student want to learn more. And so I think there's a balance there we need to get to. I'm not sure this does it. That's why I would like for for us to look at this again. Have any teachers seen this
079policy? Um have we had any input from other folks in this policy or are we as people who don't have a classroom sitting here, you know, we're not looking at it. Are we looking at it through the eyes of people that we're going to have to implement this on? And we're going to have to do it equitably, too. We can't just focus on those beginning skills and make sure that those beginning skills are important. Those biology skills are important, too. And that's always been an area that we've struggled in in Ash County is biology um on the test. Not necessarily in the classroom, but on the test. So, and I don't believe in teaching to the test at all. If I had if I could get wind of it today, we would have the bonfire
080probably in this room. But um you know, >> we would all join you on that one. I >> I'm sure you would. >> So, you know, my goal is much bigger than that. And my goal is also to keep them engaged. And Terry, I've had parents call me and say, "They're not doing anything with my kid till it gets the flex time." because they those teachers maybe it's too and and I did go to some um some um presentations during the uh board conference about literacy. That's where I was focused on. And they did say wait till the third year. The third year is the magic year that anytime you implement a new program, it takes at least three years for it to single to filter out and for folks to get comfortable to folks
081to see where they need to adjust that kind of thing. But I'm not sure our folks feel like they can't adjust. If if I can ask a question here, this is focusing this section, I think, on supplementary material that we're addressing with supplementary material. Is there a procedure process that teachers are informed and trained in that they have to follow before they can bring in supplementary to bring it in for approval or or check? Um or are you limiting outside material coming in which with the internet I don't know how you can limit completely. >> It's a good point that you bring up. So, I would like us to consider using the term highquality instructional materials that has been all over the place. It's in legislation for literacy. It's in um MTSS guidance from the
082state. >> Um if you look at our literacy plan, our math plan, our matrices for we have to have high quality instructional materials. It's not a choice. Now your choices within that as a teacher you use your data to drive what you choose whether your curriculum or your program or whatever that instructional move is going to make but it has to fall into a category of high instructional excuse me high quality instructional materials. So we do have um standard treatment protocol so to speak for MTSS reading math for um all the way K12 for math I'm not for sure for reading we don't until we get to sixth grade. >> What about things like CTE and history and social studies and science and civics? So, CTE has a very structured program and their curriculum is
083pretty much you do this at this time and this is when because you're looking at life skills and and credentials that they have to meet and so uh in fact sometimes it's modules and that's what they do um and it depends on the class. So, for example, um >> each class is really unique. It's very unique and good standards get rewritten about every two to three years because >> I've been involved in that where where it was a regular process and it is more detailed than what the academics get but I could still I was still bringing in things that I would see that would fit the lesson that weren't in the school. They were valuable instructional tools to help them see real life. I I think that's point. I don't know that that's supplemental
084as much as maybe an example like um I was talking to Roden the other day and the sea unit. >> Oh, >> she had found something off of a discovery site that lets them go in dark under the ocean. She went that sounded awesome. The kids loved it. To me, that's an example of her enrichment or enriching. It's an example of something pulling in. I don't look at that as supplemental and sometimes yeah we're not I don't and that would be taken away their autonomy completely that I think there's a misunderstanding there if they're thinking that they can't >> u those little thing I can make an anchor chart look any way I want I can give an example my analogies you know my talents of being a language arts teacher or a lover of
085social studies whatever it might be or the way Josh church can manipulate his math because he fully understands that content. I don't think that's supplemental. I think what's happened and where this law came in that prompted this to be written, I'm pretty sure I can infer >> that u definitely the parent bill of rights, but where we like that worksheet you found that you thought wasn't very appropriate. You know, that one's probably off teacher pay teachers. And teacher pay teacher, it it sounds like it's a great thing because I'm a teacher and I'm creating things and I'm putting it on there and I get to sell it and make money. Well, in the old days, we just gave that to each other for free because we helped each other. And I'm not, you know, I
086wouldn't overcrit or judgy about that. But sometimes that stuff is not that good. It's not researchbased. We can't prove it. I can't prove it. So if you if Earl's a teacher at Sugarloaf Elementary and he goes and buys that and uses that, I can't defend him if parent gets mad at him. I I I didn't say, you know, that's not something that I don't agree with. I agree with the parent here, you know, so it's part of their protection, too. I feel like um and I feel like supplemental became core and so they know their core. Core is core. You do it. you you that's just the way it is. Supplemental is to enrich. And so I'll give you an example of just how this happened naturally. They love this program called Fraen Reflex, which
087is a math program. And they all ask for it. So in a sense, that's an informal way where they come and they ask for it. And now that we see all three elementaryaries love it, we're going to see if we can get a better price for it and do it as a district. Um whereas if I'm a teacher and let's say I love I'm just gonna make it so >> Oh yes. >> That's not my favorite one because it's been it's been abused. So there are some programs that because they are abused or misused, they become ineffective like I Ready did. I I loved I Ready to start with. I thought it had good merit to it. But then it become this overused misused program. And by the time they got to middle school, they
088were going to create t-shirts that sat down with our ready. They they will mob you. They weren't going to do it anymore. >> Um, and that's a shame, but that's what happens if we don't monitor and keep everybody in the same mindset. Not thinking alike as far as examples, but it there's so many reasons behind it. Um and I do feel like we're >> people took the supplement and made it replaced it and made it the core. >> Casey, can you talk about the P disease and when you guys are actually talking about what that looks like and perhaps with witten wisdom? I know that I observed um it was in well should have been there longer but it was not a good day for the middle school but can you talk to um or
089share with them what that looks like and how we're um providing that guidance so that we still get the rigor in the classroom and that we are um talking about the purpose of those highquality instructional materials but also the strategies that are used within the lessons. So, usually um with PLC's, whether I'm leading it or the school instructional coach or specialist that's leading it, um what we're really trying to do is dig into data. We're looking at that progress monitoring, benchmarking data, um whether it's reading, math, um science or fifth grade, um especially, but we're looking at the data to drive the instruction. And so the instructional specialists and I work together with those teams and they're looking deeply at their progress monitoring data. They're making goals and they're saying to themselves, "Okay, if we
090have this many kids that are not showing progress or this many students that are in red and yellow, that is a core issue that we have to change what we're doing in our core using our instructional strategies. and they do need to be within a boundary of is it high quality, is it evidence and researchbased? Um, and they have those conversations as a team of what that looks like. Um, when our coaches come in for the curriculum for Wisdom, she specifically worked with kindergarten at Mountain View that day because we were working in tandem that day. Tabitha was working with kindergarten that day, really helping her try to figure out, okay, how do I differentiate for this group? I'm seeing this information. This this is what the kids are doing. Now, how do I how
091do I reach them this way? And they did a really good job trying to use their data, use observational data, um, use the formative assessment data, and try to figure out how do we make sure in the moment teachers understand how to make an instructional move that is a high quality um, researchbased move. And, and that's where our coaches come in. They are really good at that. and they help teachers daily make those instructional moves and know what to do with their materials. >> One of the things that I've I've been reading through further down in this policy and um most of this stuff supplementary material in point two is referring to things that are going to be purchased to become a permanent part. And then you get down to what I think solves resolves
092some of these issues is item three materials brought in by teachers. Principles shall establish rules concerning what materials may be brought in by teachers without review and principles are encouraged to involve teachers in establishing those rules. I think that solves the problem if we down that far. Um, so long as teachers are made aware. I was never even told I had policies I had to follow when I first started teaching in the 70s. So, you know, we have to make sure our teachers are informed. Well, and some of them they they didn't exist. No, they did. >> But do we do we have those rules about things that are brought in already or is this just new to this? >> I think it would be to the schools. I don't think it should be in
093the policies because elementary totally different needs. >> I don't either. I'm just saying do the these things exist and I think what I'm hearing is >> there's a disagreement about what supplementary means and so that needs to be >> clarified in this whole business I'm sorry um less is better >> is that if we could condense some of this and make it more user friendly please um it is you know and >> which part would you like to let let's would it help to start with like section A and and then go down through and look like they added digital instead of just textbook. So it it could be textbook technology based. >> I'm not looking at this compared to any other policy. I'm looking at this as a standalone that if this is the
094way we're going forward because instruction has changed. We didn't do data points. we didn't have MTSS and there are good and bad about both of those things and and I'm glad to see that we're >> uh incorporating something be besides test scores that we're doing observational information because we always did it we just didn't have to do it formally at least good teachers did >> and one of the things in your textbook thing textbooks are moving out and um as a textbook author most of the people buying my textbook are buying lensures for the internet. It's the computer >> and that's where your media is going to come in. >> Yeah. >> And your technology because they need to be a part of that conversation. >> Yeah. >> And most of the supplemental they that
095they ask for particularly in the last five years um are digital supplemental like the FRA and discovery and >> that is so ironic on the hand we're supposed to be decreasing. just wondering if there's some way they can make this >> less wordy. So that's why I think tech because even though it might be a great curriculum product, I we have to make sure that it aligns and they have a contract with our state because we have to ensure that um it we protect students personal identifying information. And so there have been companies that unless they got that like Amy Amy has to keep a watch on that until they get that signed and aligned with the state, we cannot do business with them. >> I get it. >> And so that's why they were
096on there to watch for that and they're just part of it. But mainly like it says the committee shall be appointed by the principal include teacher teachers instructional support staff and we bring them in to advise and not >> well and you're talking about core materials >> and I think we're talking about things that can supplement the core um from the teacher level and and so I think part of the um part of having a committee and what that looks like is we can't have a teacher saying hey I'm going to buy how many thousand dollar worth of materials for my class and then it's not well but some some of them might or they're pulling teachers paid teachers or other things. We've seen it this year in trying to um in or hey I've
097read this book a long time ago I'm going to use this book instead. Some of that might be good but some of that also opens yourself up to um uh criticism but if you plan in advance then you shouldn't have any any issues with that. The problem I think is that definition like you're saying with supplemental. I mean there's no reason why you can't see something on nebulas and bring it into your science class the next day um because it was really cool and you know that it matches. There's nothing but that can't be the core. >> You know what I mean? That can't be. >> If we look at the last under number one the last sentence the objectives for the selection of supplementary. Okay. >> Uh, mine just says one. Where we at?
098>> B1. Sorry. Or is it? I'm just making >> There you go. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um, you know, if we could >> I think we we need to define supplementary right there. >> Mhm. >> And and then if we could explain it's it's defined above that, >> I believe. >> Including the Liberty Bill of Oh, maybe it is. I can't describe it to do >> that explains what >> Yeah. >> supplemental materials. >> It gives examples. >> Yeah. >> Can we say that more simply? >> Compliment, enrich or extend the curriculum. >> Can we just leave it there? >> There's a It sounds like a justification for using the supplementary materials in the next one. So this particular one, the objection that the A through um F there actually come from and I
099can send it to you. It's the guidelines for North Carolina media and technology program. So these are the objections for the selection of those um supplementary materials and it comes directly um >> but didn't we decide that the media committee would not be the one to approve the supplementary that there would be another committee doing that that had teachers and other things? Well, you would have you would have a part of it for people. It could be part of it, but we can't just have um we can't leave technology out of it because there are certain protections when you have students putting in their data. When I've been rereading through this from a legal standpoint, although I don't like wordy, I think it's got it's a very thorough list of the options and the availability
100and in in in letting teachers there's several places where it mentions teacher provided material that fits the needs of the class and because of rapid changes and it also mentions something in there where they it recognizes in this stat policy that flexibility is needed for lastm minutee changes and things that the process can accomplish. So I think that it fits well and the board lawyers have looked over it and I agree that although I want it shorter, I don't know that you can with all the different types of supplements that are out there and all the different kinds of processes. Um, so, uh, >> I would say we we trust our teachers, you know, for the most part. I mean, we do have some some people every once in a while that go rogue. We
101have it unfortunately about once a year or so. And um, but that's not the vast majority. The majority of the teachers sit in they're they're still uh lifelong learners. Uh, they still they sit in PLC's. They share with other teachers. They plan together. I mean, I I'll tell you the first grade unit at Blue Ridge, and I'll brag on you all. I know I've bragged on them before if anybody any of them are watching. Uh that first grade team is outstanding. They plan together. Uh they reflect together. They look at their data together. Um I, you know, they work hard. >> They work hard. But I mean, they really do a great job of sharing the responsibility. And sometimes when you have, you know, um, people who haven't worked together before, so new teams, they're
102a pretty steady team. So once you get the team developed, they um, you know, it's a little bit easier of a lift than it is when you don't work together or haven't when you haven't worked together like that before because you have new people within it, old uh, not old, veteran or novice. Um, but there is room in here for them to add um or extend. I mean, if you've got a kid that's, you know, that has the core material and they they don't need to be reading, you know, Bob sat down and they need to be reading a chapter book. There there are ways for them to do that, but also still get the basics of the curriculum that um need to be taught so that it's not just reading, but they're also reading
103for comprehension and are asking the right questions. Like I think there's room for it, but I do think we need to define it better and make sure that our that our principles um are reiterating what that process is. Um, but that should be through like the planning like they turn in their lesson plans, you know, a week, you know, a week before and what that looks like. But that's the core is the core. It's the other things that um I think that we're we're talking about. And I think that's an easy remedy once people understand what that is. A >> and I would like to see with item three under B, principles shall establish rules concerning what materials may be brought in by teachers without review. Principles are encouraged to involve teachers in establishing these
104rules. If they have set rules and they're passing it out of the packet they give teachers at the beginning of the year so that teachers understand you have flexibility, but there's these guidelines we want you to be sure to follow. And I that's going to vary with the different schools. So I wouldn't want to see any more than that at this point in that policy. But that does give principles an assignment. Well, and I think we need to from a consistency standpoint make sure that each of those principles have a very similar process because what happens at one school? Well, why do they get to do that instead? You know, whatever's going to work for them now. And everybody has consistent people that are involved um which I I think is important. But if it's
105going to include money to purchase something, then that's a different thing. >> Yeah. Well, I mean the school level that's one thing, but if it's a district level purchase, then um that, you know, brings something a little different, but that does give them room a lot of Well, and I I really feel like they have the room. I just think the uncomfortableness of change with a new curriculum for core is what, you know, once they're familiar with it, they feel like they can um supplement differently. I I think too just from person who's been in this county forever if they if they don't feel trusted I think it's a lot of reasons. I think we've never held a curriculum to fidelity and it's hard be a lot easier for me to just say go for
106it cuz that wouldn't be right by kids because we make our decision based on what's best for kids and teachers know that and we've told them they're the number one factor but I think a new curriculum all the trauma with COVID and the hurricane they all have new principles they've all changed around so there's new expectations there um the political climate we're in where they're constantly seeing >> it just people are really critical of the teaching profession and they feel it all the time. They feel it from parents and so they and then the parent bill of rights I think so exaggerated that it it made some of them feel like we can't do anything but parent bill of rights is really no different it's we've always had that Paulie you said when you taught
107if they wanted a different book a parent could say I want a different book I did that too I'm sure Diane Janet we've all done that so >> all those things combined I think are making them feel that way and I hate it for them I wish I could fix it >> but I I think that's they and they're rule followers too. So I think some of it's been exaggerated and I think it defining what it is telling the principles to have this talk having that common language to make everybody understand it is probably what we need to do. And Diane, you were mentioning from an implementation standpoint, you're right. Three plus years. >> Three plus years. >> If you're looking at implementation science of anything, doesn't matter if it's >> curriculum or normal years.
108>> Yes. >> Or if you're in industry and you're trying to implement a new strategy in your business, it doesn't matter. >> There the the research behind it shows once you train, you have to follow up. You have to make sure that you are implementing with um evidence-based um strategies, evidence-based research, researchbased quality materials and you have to keep on it >> every day. Um and you have to follow up, you have to coach it in order to see that fruit three plus years later. But also you need to keep in mind too when when I came through everything that we were taught was researchbased, >> evidence-based. But the evidence has changed. We I mean >> it has changed. >> It's changed. >> It has changed. You're right. >> And we So we've got to
109make sure that we're supporting those folks as they go through these change because they need support as well. But >> agreed. Could we please condense some of that stuff there because some of it seems uh under that first thing where we got all the way down through I um it seems very um similar to me if we could combine some of that. Um maybe not so much lawyer ease stuff, maybe more educational terminology there. Um, >> so these factors Diane are now I just got this from earlier because I I knew that question was gonna be asked. >> You don't know me that well, do you really? >> Okay. Well, in me, I always think less is more, but um Christine Sheath shared that factors through that are consistent with North Carolina Department of Public
110Instructions recommendation criteria for selecting media and technology is outlined in impact guidelines for North Carolina media and technology program. That's what those um >> but this is not media and technology. It it does include it and these are >> it not somewhere else. Then we're talking about supplementary materials here >> and most supplementary materials now are digital >> and media. >> Most of most of them are are digital resources. Very few of them are paper pencil and of course we've gotten away from doing just a random worksheet. Um, you know, we we really want them to turn and talk to the neighbor and, you know, use the whiteboard so that they're, you know, communicating so you can see if every child has it versus, you know, a worksheet that's not engaging. But I I don't
111know that I don't know. I mean, that's what that's what they're basing this information off of for the policy. Um, I do think it gives teachers a good thing to think about, but we probably need to sit down once you guys um it once this is becomes policy um or you know whatever version of it sit down and talk with them about what that is and then how it applies to them. I mean that's you know if there's confusion over language we need to we need to have that common language which is very very important >> for me. The only confusion about language was the supplementary. But this list I think gives the teacher all the things you have to think about before you decide you want to use this that could potentially be problematic.
112So I I can't see after reading through this three times. I think we need to keep these guidelines. You may be able to say it in fewer words in some of this, but you know, like durability, manageability, clarity, appropriateness, skillfulness, organization, attractiveness. What are you going to take out when you're looking at content? And you want to examine the physical and um and it's it's already been done. So why work? It's bit wordy, but it I think is valuable. So the other thing over the summer, you know, we have our PLC's with teachers and they spend a lot of time working together um school to school if you know in the case of elementary school. Um which I think is valuable because they can share and and you know learn from each other in that
113way and give input that way as well. Um, but those PLC's when they're meeting together, um, and then turning in their lesson plans. I know when I when I taught, which, you know, seems to be in agent days now. Um, but my team and I plan together and we would turn in our our lesson plans for a week or a month or however long it was. Um but you know if somebody didn't uh you know our novice teachers if they weren't quite as sure um you know we we sat and practice together during that time too. Hey what do you mean by this? you know, how do you manage this particular um activity in the classroom? Um, you know, and I think our teachers are great. Like our experienced teachers are so valuable uh for
114a lot of that and they're probably supplementary materials that they can bring to the table and say, "Hey, this would be good." And I think in the I think our young teachers would appreciate that so that they understand what's quality and how they can bring that into um the classroom. I just think we need to communicate to them what that looks like and make sure that our principles um you know have the process um for materials brought in by home. But most of them are turning in the lesson plans what every Thursday. Is that when we turn in lesson plans? >> Same Thursday that they're taking. >> Oh, grades are due every Thursday. Lesson plans by Sunday anyway across the district. And that's that's a premium, you know, prime time for them to uh be
115able to check for some of these if it's not out of the out of the normal. >> So, especially brought on by teachers. >> Okay. >> A lot of conversations at PLC level stuff. >> Most of it's in the PLC. >> Most of it is weekly conversations with their instructional specialists or coaches and having conversations about, well, I'm seeing this. What do you think I should do? You know, this is not working. And then they have those professional conversations with one another. >> And then we also and that's core but we also have you know tier 2 to help with the especially where the supplemental materials have >> but then we also have AIG and EC and then we have pullouts of the kids who need special help in certain areas that might not be
116EC or AIG. >> Well I personally think this delineates everything gives a teacher safety net. it's there in detail because I don't know about now I'm sure all the teachers there's going to be some teachers like I taught with that go their own way and they need this to stay on track and do a core curriculum and we need to stick to that thing that's called rigor which we have not been doing enough of say we need >> just hang in there the supplementary doesn't bother bother me. I mean, none of this bothers me. I think it's good. I wouldn't change it. >> I don't have a dog in this fight. And I just sitting here and listen to y'all. But as a parent sitting here listening that we could have this open discussion >>
117and see that we actually care what's going through our classrooms that's affecting our kids. That if we probably if we don't touch this policy again for another 5 years, I don't know the world that we're living in. you don't know what could come through the door. And so, as a parent and as a schoolboard member, I'm thankful that we could have this open discussion and that we can word it to where we can protect the teachers, give them, and I agree, give the definition of supplementary. And I think some things might need to be defined a little bit better and maybe they would understand it and maybe not be so offensive and be more open to it, maybe. But as a parent, I just wanted to say I'm glad to be a part of this
118conversation. I didn't have a dog in a fight, but I'm glad to be You've got two kids in school. There you go. Wanted me to choose something random to teach Grant with. >> No, you would have wanted me to do that. No, >> you had wanted me to choose something that was evidence, research based that aligned to exactly what >> And in your class, he grew a lot more than in any other classes. >> Has to do with making those kind of >> Exactly. And like Diane says, you know, you might have three students here that needs focusing more on something like this, but it still gives the teacher, my understanding, still gives the teacher the ability and the freedom to do it the way >> and we help them do that through professional development
119through the summer, throughout the year. These are evidence and researchbased strategies. Terry is doing it right now with high leverage practices. We have really tried to um support teachers in what those practices strategies all those types of decisions that they know what is good quality instruction where to choose from. Can I also share too, I I don't want to take up too much more time on this, but um North Carolina Department of Public Instruction is actually going through a process to help um the selection process for not just core materials, but what this would look like. They've reviewed four different states and they all have various various things. Um, I I advocated to some of the people that um were there um for local choice in what those um instructional materials are and look like
120so that we could keep it at the teacher level and keep it in an area that that our kids will be able to enjoy those materials. what works in um in a bigger city is not going to necessarily work in Ash County. But things like core reading um is core reading, right? I mean, phonics is phonics. Um but selecting the materials that are engaging for our kids might be very different than the selection of materials for somebody else's kids. So, um I I'd like to keep that as local as possible and have it as teacherbased as possible and um you know we can talk about you mentioned at the high school level you know they don't have well they do have for reading they have ELA they chose um >> mirrors and windows >> I
121do want to practice a minute what they're doing I really and it's it's very middle school behavior which is probably why I like their English department and how that's working and so it's starting to flow into the social studies but Mr. Beckworth is their department chair and so he has used AI to come up with their well really they've been working on this for a few years now but AI has made it easier common formative assessments and so they very much align freshman English to enhance those English too which is tested um standards >> and results. So they're looking at that as a group. And they got this little friendly competition, which we used to do that at middle school. And it was always just for fun. It wasn't serious, but it that just kind
122of sparks you to want to do better. And so I really enjoy going to their PMC's. I think they really get along now and work together. And >> Josh presented that at the last PD that was back up in October. >> And now social studies wants to do it. So, if we can get science on board, which we're trying, um I I suspect we're going to be a lot. They're seeing the need for it. It's very different concept for high school to work together. Very solid. You know, it is probably I know yours work. English, you know, it is what it is. But if you teach English one as opposed to English, um your scaffolding, you're looking at that. You're looking at different things. But I do see problem there. and I would love to
123find him a math textbook. If somebody would develop it, we would buy it. But nothing is the North Carolina Integrated Math. Um, and that's one reason why the state is actually looking at creating certain materials aligned to standards. And like I said, that's why I advocated for that flexibility for our people to be able to um use examples and others. Uh so and that may be through some of the rubrics that they use in selecting those materials. >> Did they use >> um okay I think it was Colorado, Louisiana. Therefore, but they were all in they were all like deep into this developing their own because nobody can afford textbooks anymore. >> So they didn't use another one state. >> Um which one? >> Massachusetts. they they hadn't developed this process and actually um it
124was a mis they said there was a there's new data out from the NATE that says Massachusetts is not the is no longer the number one >> so I'll have to I'll have to look and see but I I'll find out who this for I know that Louisiana it might have been New Mexico and something else but this was for developing materials >> so yeah I don't know >> you're right about it local have people to choose supplementary materials that back up their core curriculum. But the thing man, I like that that last thing as principles make sure teachers are not bringing things from home that are not appropriate because that does happen sometimes and sometime it'll get by you and you don't realize what you're bringing if you're not regulating it. >> And there's
125always been um a I don't want to call it a threat, but they every year there's a bill that's introduced. that say, "Hey, we're going to have to post every single thing um online." And that's impossible for our teachers to do. Nobody has that capability. We don't have the storage capability to do any of that. Um >> so we need to have some checks and balances on how those things come in. But at the same time, um you there's no way to 100% guarantee that for every, you know, I think teachers do need some flexibility. We don't have any problem. >> No, we really don't. I mean, when it comes, we don't have a whole lot of problems with teachers and selecting materials. >> Honestly, we are resource rich here. Yeah, we are >> compared
126to most districts that are >> our teachers are doing that >> when I'm at meetings, they are really surprised in a good way. >> We didn't take them tighten the language. >> Yeah. If we could take the first paragraph of this policy and tighten it up and then I look at number two, there's there's room there to it's a little bit repetitive as well. If we could tighten that >> to where under which letter >> B to A for sure >> process >> um you know anyway it looks like there's several places that we can it's sort of repetitive that we could tighten that language up and get it more um user friendly is that the word I want to use words I want to use I don't >> so what I'll do is I
127will see what some of this is actually um in statute so of who has to do what and then some of it it probably can be really condensed and so I'll I'll check to see what that is and send it back out to you if that's okay. >> That'd be great. >> Yes, that's good. It's been an hour. >> Okay. What's next? >> Selection of instructional materials. >> Parental inspection and objection to. >> So, what number are you on? So 3210. >> Yes. >> And so 3210 um if you uh look at the cheat sheet so to speak clarifies that the reference to Karen includes the legal guardian and certain other caregivers which is required. Revises the process for parental review of materials to allow for uh the extension of time to provide the material
128due to volume or complexity of the request. Adds the reference to policy 3510. adds new state law requiring that all titles of all library books at the school be accessible through a catalog on the school's website homepage and that parents be allowed to identify any library books that their student is prohibited from borrowing. And then there are um legal references and this is why you know because of this section as far as the instructional materials. This is one of the reasons why you have to be very careful of what you just bring in versus um uh what we have as standard so to speak. >> Is this media catalog available? How much work is this adding to our media specialists lives? >> So that's working through that and it's that's it's not good. It wasn't
129well thought out when that was put into place because many of our teachers especially our early elementary teachers have huge collections of books that are there for you know the kids to check out all the time. >> So what we have been working on currently is the media coordinators are confirming in those teachers and most of them probably already have which of those books that they have are already in their collection. So those those are available. Um >> they're on our website and on the school's website. You can get there easily. >> Um other than that there are some soft of course you know some software companies have come up with programs that you can create you know list with >> and then >> yeah it is. And then the other thing is, you know,
130we're just encouraging teachers that they can check out 10, 12, you know, out of our media center and take them to their classroom and and do them that way. Um, I can't say it's all bad. I understand, you know, because we do have to be careful of, you know, what's going home and what our children are reading. So, that part I I understand the intention. It's just it sure does put some, you know, some barriers for students to be able to read >> and and once once the inclassroom libraries are all um cataloged um it'll be much easier process. It's just the heavy lift in the beginning. But our media center um all of the titles that they are eligible for have been online and accessed through our website for years. So that's nothing new.
131Um and you the best practice is just call the call the child's teacher and say hey you know what's my kid been reading? >> And you know the other thing is as teachers we just got a better we just got a better content of this >> but most of most of most of it is already online. So will the administrative procedures to this be attached at some point? >> We have to once once the um once the uh policy is approved then we can develop the procedures. >> Go to the next one or you change it. Oh >> and really the Hold on. Can you get back? >> 3210 and some of the uh like the procedures are already outlined right there in the policy. be parents submit an objection and writing to the principal
132like it's already there and we have a form >> um for objection of materials that is typically on it's online you know where where they can find it right now we'll just have to we'll have to redo it to align directly to make sure aligns directly >> we usually send them that when it's requested our if our if they are principal then they or our meeting coordinator then we send them That's fine. >> But we like I said, we we have one already in place. We'll just have to make sure that it's exactly aligned to this one. >> We do maybe once a year. >> It's not very often. >> Okay. 3225. You're a long one. Technology responsible use. So, this particular policy was um this particular policy um is something we've had in place,
133but it was in the 10,000 series. And um I Amy has looked at it along with her tech people. Um and I think it's pretty good as written. Um now Julie um there's some things that need changed like grammar stuff minor went ahead and fixed that one. Um but it's it's pretty anyway it's pretty standard and it's not much different. our policy in the 10,000s was already very closely aligned with this one. And then we have a um to go along with this that would fit this policy. We just have to make sure we send it home with um the responsible use policy um with families and it's posted online as well. >> Well, just look at page four number C and see if I'm not reading it. I know when you find it there
134users may not forward or post personal communications with the author's private you mean without I think you hold on a second >> where are you number 14 >> page four top of page C >> 14 yeah where the red letters are >> users may not read alter change or delete files belonging to another user with personal communications with the author's prior consent. Do you mean with that? It sounds you mean without need with or you mean that? >> Okay. Use Oh, I see where you are. 9 C. Okay. Users may not forward or post personal communications with the author's prior consent. >> Yeah. Should be without >> it. Let me say it's okay. Let me let me let me ask to make sure that that's what the intent was. >> It sounded funny. I wasn't
135sure what it >> I think I read it. >> It may not forward personal communication. >> Okay. I I will get clarification on that for you just to make sure. But does it sound fun to hear? >> Yes, >> it does. >> It sounds It sounds incorrect to me, but I don't know. >> But depending on >> and I thought maybe it meant something that I wasn't thinking of. So, I don't know. >> How do we How do we educate our students on this policy? Because obviously they've abused it many times. So how do we how do we educate them on this policy? >> So it in their little handbook their technology you know device handbook it is referred to this policy is referred to um Diane we don't have facilitators anymore so I know
136>> being part of you know their process to go over you know copyright and all of those things. So um Whereas our media coordinators, they usually they're touching on a lot. >> They're touching on a lot of it. >> Our media coordinators are >> why don't we have technology people anymore? >> Can't afford them. So, how do we get so we can't afford them? Because I think we're if we're going to do all these technological things, if we're going to have all of this, if we're moving toward what Neil says we're moving to, then we've got to have >> Yeah, that that word, >> we're going to have to have some um we're going to have to have more instruction on what that looks like, how to interpret those and all those. So, how do
137we get those positions back where they need to be? >> So, well, there are options that we have and none of them are great. >> I'm just I'm being I'm being honest because the state does not give us these positions. This is the pot of money that we talk about that has all of our um instructional facilitators that we have a couple at each elementary entry school one at Bloombridge, two at the others because of size, middle school and um high school. Um we have um counselors are in that pot of funds which is not it's terrible. Um we have um uh tech facilitators could your media coordinators those are all a part of the same pot of funds and we get five for our entire district >> total five and we have a whole
138bunch of others. So we that's one um another another place that um we exceed requirements of the uh state is our teaching assistance and I I know I know >> I know where Diane stands on that. >> Well I'm just I'm just telling you some options none of them are popular like I think the state needs to give us these funds period. I think we need positional a lotments that say that if you have this school and you have this classroom, this is what you get. But they do not. And they keep decreasing and putting more and more have to have a budget before we do anything. >> Well, and we don't even have a budget. You're right. I mean, so the whole thing is is really messed up. But that's part of it. Um,
139you know, we're we're not sure anything federal right now. And think of how many teachers that we have currently in federal. We have 17 teaching positions. >> 17 >> teachers in our in our school district like classroom teachers that are paid for through that budget. We also have a couple of t teacher assistants >> at the prek. We've got like we all like up here do multiple jobs because we we don't want to take it away from schools if we can help it. But it's really getting tight. I mean uh Earl's CTE budget has dwindled every single year. So maintaining programs while they are increasing the requirements of the programs that we have to offer is slim. I let me get off my soap box here, but I get really upset when we think about
140what we are able to provide and we do and then you got to think, okay, you don't you can't put 30 kids in a classroom or 35 kids in a classroom or maybe more and then put it, you know what I mean? And some of them were getting we're at the limit of what I'm willing to tolerate for some of our classes, especially especially elementary. I think our classes are about 24. >> Um, you know, roughly. You have a couple that are 25. You have a couple that are 25 because they moved in and whatever. I mean, they but they're fourth, fifth, and sixth grade, which they don't even give a class size limit on those. We limit. >> So, I'm assuming you already know there's no grant money that we could write for different
141>> for a classroom teacher or for >> this position. Yes. >> Is there? >> I mean, I not that I know of. I think we were right. And then that's hard because it's temporary and because you're going to hire somebody that might not be there next year. >> And this is a long-term problem that goes back when I entered teaching in the 1970s. I had a $50 supply budget. When I retired for my classroom supplies when I retired, I had a $50 supply budget and I had to get computer discs. I had to get computer printer paper. All kinds of new things that I didn't used to have to get before. It's it's been an ongoing process that education has been hurt dramatically by >> we have assistant principles at every one of our schools,
142>> right? >> I don't know how you do it without an assistant principal. I don't like I think that would be an impossible task. um >> assistant principles again administration um is not something that you know are yeah anyway it's not it's not a coveted position for people who are trying to finance stuff um like there there are several options that we could make choices I don't know that um >> anyway I I don't know what that's going to take. We have a tech facilitator. We have a technician in every one of our schools. I don't They all do district duties. >> Everybody Everybody has multiple roles and I just don't know what that would take. I mean, we look at our budget really carefully. We could ask for more money from the county commission.
143Um, you know, we press the state on um even getting a budget and what that looks like. Again, I'm I'm concerned if um when the federal um allocations change, and I'm not saying if, but when the federal allocations change, what that's really going to mean because it sends it back to the states. Are they going to prioritize the same things that we need here? I think they need to give us local flexibility, but a lot of districts don't even do they don't even have a lot of these positions that we have in the classroom. So, I I don't know. I I hate even that answering that because I get so passionate about it. And, you know, this is the type of thing that um shouldn't keep me up at night because I really don't have
144a whole lot of control over it. Um but we do with how we use our money here, but it's just it's them. >> Well, you know, we were presented with the um the plan um strategic plan for the state. And how do they plan on doing that without any money? And I I noticed several areas that it would require us to to have those positions in order for us to implement those that strategic plan here. We've got to do our own strategic plan. So, if they don't come up with some money for us to do this, I don't see how they expect us to do all of these things without the money. You just cannot do it without the money in order to create those positions to do these things. And I looked at that
145and I thought, >> we're going to empower our teachers, okay? But we haven't passed the budgets yet. And if they get paid and finally in May, then they have to pay a bonus tax on the money that they were supposed to receive from office. And it drives me insane. So we'll be writing letters tonight. Okay. So and talking with conversations. >> So we've got so coming up in December, you'll see our budget timeline and we backed it up a month so we can have earlier conversations. Um and Ian also planned for January. Last year January was a little crazy and you know we had thinking of virtual options for board meetings. Um but anyway um we will we we can talk about that. You know we want to right now we know with our ADM
146we will lose and it'll be through attrition. Um we will lose it at least three teachers. >> We lose them every year. We're we do a good job of preserving um you know the integrity of the academics. I know our class sizes have increased a little bit but not significantly compared to what it could. Um you know we could effectively put you know some of those positions that are outside of a traditional classroom and make them go back in the classroom. Um but I I think we're trying to preserve some of the things that we have too. So, for example, you know, we have uh AIG teachers at each of our elementary at each of our elementary schools, and they teach reading and math, fourth, fifth, and sixth grade, or actually third through sixth grade.
147>> They also do stuff in kindergarten and first grade as well. >> And then they also go into um for talent development into our earlier grades. So, you know, that's something that I think we need. Um yeah, thankfully EC budget um w will continue. I don't think that will ever um and and Terry does an amazing job with our EC budget. In fact, we have one of the lowest teacher to student ratios anywhere in the state. And I think that's because she budgets so well. And then we've been able to do some other things like behavior specialists out of her budget that um allow us to support systemic things throughout our school throughout our schools that otherwise um you we wouldn't be able to have. We wrote grants. So we have some people that are
148in grants right now that the grant expires at the end of the year. So you know Jamie is constantly looking for and writing other grants. our social workers who do so much. Um they're all grant provided. Um some of the nurses are are grants. They're forming, you know, with partnerships. >> All of the mental health that we have our grants. We wouldn't get enough money in some of the pots of money in order to even purchase an entire position. So, oh that's a anyway somebody would just let me design it. Seriously woman >> we get you know like I think we great job here but the things that we need that we no longer can have >> and and that's because that's because of the budget and then costs of stuff that you have to
149have >> just keep increasing and so we have a lot of unfunded mandates. Um there's several of them, you know, for example, um title three, which is a federal budget. We've got all kinds of mandates in title three. However, um we get what $26,000 or something >> close to title three. We don't get hardly anything. Yeah. It's it just barely pays for the tutor at for less than 19 hours at Mountain View. >> And does that decrease? Oh, yeah. Every year. Title four, title three, title two, it all decreased. >> The year before I came, we took a big hit in title one and then I think three years in we took another cut. >> Even though the poverty rate is positive correlation in our state, we thought we were going to get an increase,
150but it decreased. All right. Sorry to get depressing on some of that in a in a technology responsible use policy, but it all ties in. >> I really think that there ought to be a plan for the kids to understand this policy besides have even if it comes down to home room teachers or whatever going over those >> it's it's got increasingly important that they follow the policy. I was going to say I think they already do that at the beginning of the year with with our kids >> in every classroom >> I mean it just it doesn't mean that they apply >> it doesn't follow but if they hear it then then they can't say well we didn't know about it >> and if you look on >> and these are signed signed off
151by their parents too >> and they're also signed on their >> and the students good >> and the students search. >> But it honest is misspelled in this thing under a >> a what? >> I think it's supposed to be honest. >> Oh, it is here. Yeah, it is. It's it it honest. There you go. I fixed it. >> Don't worry about these people. >> But I mean, I don't think that test. >> Pardon me. >> Is it hard test? I see a spell. >> Um, can we take a line out behind that between the first and second paragraphs and then add a line between the A and the second paragraph? >> Okay. Where are you? Oh, >> the very beginning. Yeah, there's two lines there. They only need one up in the between the
152two first paragraphs. I think you only need one line there. >> Yeah, we can they'll they'll clean up this whenever they publish it. um they'll clean it up before they put it on our our what you want to call it online and I'll try to do as much as I can um before I submit it to them. >> That's what they're getting paid for to submit it to clean it up. >> Yeah, >> we got everything we need to do on this one done. >> So maybe we get another one done. Well, we go to E down page five. >> E. Yep. >> I'm just reading that. And it said, "Each principal may establish rules for his or her school site as to whether or how personal technology devices, including but not limited to smartphones,
153tablets, laptops may be used on campus. I mean, >> we decided not to have that on campus, >> did we not? In a different policy. >> Yeah. So, I mean, >> Good job, Josh. No, I got one. >> Okay. So, um >> it's a doctor. >> So, so under E. So, for example, um there are sometimes when >> adults have to use your personal hotspot to gain access and keep working >> if you don't have a state phone. >> But if we say students, >> no. Well, it's not on a state phone, but I have a personal. only way you keep on working and sometimes that's >> um >> it's the only way you can connect. >> It's the only sometimes it's the only way to connect when it goes down. >> So >> I
154know I'm just wondering about each principal may establish rules. Maybe this should follow the district's rules. Is it they're not allowed? >> No, they're not allowed. >> I mean that contradicts the policy of >> It does. It does. But like what about some adults that you you know they communicate and put Vermont on their own or I mean I get the students aren't but if we leave it to the students. >> Yeah that's what I'm saying students more so than the adults. >> The adults the adults should be responsible. >> My mind went to the students more so than it did teachers and >> we just got to add the words. So, um, so Amy, um, thinking forward, what issue would that be if they're using their personal hotspot, an adult, to access the internet?
155>> Probably happens a lot. >> Well, >> because our filters are so strong, >> like there's some things that you just can't. And how should E should E address the pouches because the high schools >> well it does say student devices are also governed by policy 4318 in there. >> Is that the one that we have the >> use of wireless communication devices? Yeah. >> Okay. So I guess my um >> here's another thing is no >> I was thinking of substitute sometimes it was hard for me as a substitute to be able to get on >> be very careful with MFA a lot of times teachers do have to use their device >> for multifactor >> I think there's a way to designate that it's >> that it's for teachers and staff versus students
156>> yeah let me get clarification that and make sure there's no technical reason. But I think that um we do need some flexibility there for teachers. >> Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. >> But for students, >> I'm just saying if there's a way to just clarify Yeah. >> that it does clarify it later. Student devices are governed. >> Yeah. But the way >> but the way it reads, it doesn't read that way. >> Okay. only have personal websites. >> They don't require teachers to maintain their own website anymore. >> We used to have to do that. That was a timeconsuming little apparatus. >> Most of them lead directly to their Canvas page now. >> Has that taken the place there page? >> Number two. There it says employees personal websites. What's that? >> So
157we we might have some that have a personal web page just for uh it used to be required. >> Really? >> Yes. That's what we were just talking about. >> But they shouldn't be using a personal one to communicate with >> Facebook. >> So >> Instagram. >> I just didn't know what that meant. Just because you're a spring chicken and I'm not. Don't be jealous. >> Hey tail older than dirt is what the scums mean. I'm not the oldest one in here either. >> Don't talk about her like that. >> That's right. Still here. >> All right. Anything else on that one? I'll just I will clarify that just to make sure. >> I'm glad it doesn't the consequences at the end. I was trying to get to that, but I made it till >>
158it's hard not to have >> all of that without >> Oh, there it is. >> Number H or letter H, not number H. >> And it also says volunteers are encouraged to block students from viewing personal information. Is that like Facebook kind of thing? >> It could be. >> Okay. >> I mean, >> you know, some people have everything that's open for everybody to see and some do not. Some friend people and they're not supposed to. >> Okay. So, let me ask this question. Can a teacher be friends with a student on Facebook? >> So, Okay. I'm glad I asked. I didn't know that. They should not at all unless like it's your nephew or it's somebody that you've been friends with because they're, you know, their next door neighbor and they babysit your child
159or something like that. >> They call you guys. >> There would have to be a true personal relationship, appropriate relationship. Yeah. >> Um, in order for that to be an exception. So, you're babysitting, >> you know what I mean? Or something like that. Grant, you're >> tell Grant I cannot be friends with him on Facebook. That's why I'm not Grant sent me a >> Well, well, I I have a couple of our student that are on the on the uh um you know, student representatives to the board that have sent me um Facebook requests and Instagram requests and I keep mine private and I'm like, you graduate at the end of the graduation date. >> Okay, so everybody knows I'm Facebook world, you know. So, am I allowed to be like kids I go to
160church with and stuff like that that's in the school system. Am I allowed to be friends with them? >> You can be friends with anybody you want because you are a member of the public. >> Okay. I'm safe that way. Okay. But on a school system device, I would >> Amy told us we could. And a long time ago when I first got on this board member can >> I don't think a board member is considered I think they're considered >> I'll clarify over speaking then. I was >> grant no kids. So, the only way you can have them is if you already have if they're if they're your niece or your nephew. You have a reason to have a relationship with them outside of school. And it needs to be a legit. That's what
161our that's what policy states. So, I always say if they're part of your Sunday school class. Now, if they're just Grant's friend, >> can't. >> No. So even like my youth group at church, I can >> your youth group at church would be fine because a relationship outside >> to them in another capacity >> capacity besides school. >> Okay. Well, I'm going to have to go through my friends then explain and tell my mom I'm sorry. >> And I do the same thing, Dr. Cox. I'll get I'll get them and I just private message them and say, "Hey, do the policy." I can't, but when you graduate, I am clicking the guest button. So, I have a a couple people whose parents will email me, hey, do you mind if you if uh uh you
162know, my daughter or son calls you on on this number and I'm like, if you were there and you give your permission and usually it's because we've got, you know, something else going on, it's somebody's, you know what I mean? Or it's a scholarship or something like that. I've talked to a couple of kids, but they're on their as their parents are sitting there. >> Gotcha. Okay. Glad I asked that question. >> Yeah. >> Everybody good with this one? >> Yes. >> I'm I'm going to get direct clarification on that piece of it. I think it's best to just stay away and not >> Yeah. >> You know, you need to talk to the parent and that's always best practice. Our teachers absolutely cannot. >> But can't be grandfathered in. >> We'll you'll check on
163that. Okay. >> We'll get >> specifically, but >> 3230 and 7330. >> I'm not friends with them. Do you know what I mean? Like >> yes, >> they're acquaintances, whatever. You're not friends with them. >> 3230. So 30 a lot of 30 >> this is copyright compliance. It's very um >> so essentially it just um removes the description of the fair use doctrine. Um it get it's a list of factors that they put in there um that are more reliable versus um the description. Um adds fair use of copyrighted materials in the preparation of multimedia projects to the list of topics on which students and employees must be trained. Um it includes minor editorial and formatting changes and their legal references. Um, that's pretty much what it is, but um, this would just add to
164the list at the beginning of the year for copyright. Most of that's done in your English classes anyway or through media uh, coordinators. Um, >> do we have a updated language about chat GPT and other AI? >> So, we have we have one to bring to you, but it won't be this time. This is a lot. Probably not going to get down through all these, but we do have one that our media coordinators and Amy have worked on um that we'll send to you when um probably the next appropriate time. >> I think January because Okay, we're going to bring it January. >> So, it will be a separate policy from this >> use of AI. >> So, this is Yeah. Yeah. Kind of. >> Yeah. >> Hold on. I hope it has that framework
165that I've been wanting. Chloe, >> have you D, you looked at the online that time video that's on the high school page? >> No, I have not had time. I've been reading policies. >> She said again with a group from the state a guideline. She's done a good job. incorporated it into seen her today because I can't go tomorrow. I have appointments in Winston and and I never made it. There was a incident and I never made it. So anyway, >> so this is just updating verbiage basically 10 years old. >> I will look at >> because last time it was 11 years. >> I do think it's important to have then we can move forward next do the and I have a question. Why is category B budget there with nothing? >> Yeah, it
166is blank. Oh, it is page. It goes next. >> It's one sentence on the next page. >> The budget recommended. >> Yeah, >> which be moved right to talk about or the bottom. >> That should come up. >> It's got enough space there to bring it all over. Let me get rid of delutions. I I I'm I'm I doubt that sufficient funds for purchasing copyright materials is going to ever be sufficient compared to what we would think we would like to have. But who defines what's sufficient? I'm fine with I guess this is changed. So the >> we are on 32 >> 3230 >> 7330. >> So 3220 which is not in your updated chart is where I just found the thing is where the school boards association's um AI guidelines are. It's 3220. We
167don't have it in here because they were updating it in the end. It's just changed so much. >> Um, but we do have we do have feedback. So, that will be brought in January. That's why I >> January 5th. We've already got on our calendars to finalize that. >> What? >> January 5th. We've already got it on our calendar. And so we'll bring it to the mid well we right now we don't have a mid January um policy meeting on the schedule um because of snow >> but we can if you'd like but we always figure that that was usually a pretty big week for snow especially with these polar vortex season >> she said it again >> what did I say I said the snow word I'm sorry >> oh that's Great. >> I
168know that >> anyway. Baltimore, whatever. >> So, all the same. >> Um, but we'll bring it we'll bring it then and that way we've had enough time to get the rest of the input from from that team. And they've got a pretty good one right now. >> Is everybody good on 3230? >> Yep. Yep. has >> school calendar >> 33. >> So 3,300 um school calendar and Earl already has a uh um a draft and ready to send out to uh um a team upcoming. So that will that will start uh soon. Um >> I thought you was going to say he had a change to the changes we already got. >> I know that's what I said. in there. >> No, >> the way it's been going, >> but the way it's been going,
169it really could. Um, but really the school calendar, we're we're um this has a lot of changes. If you look in the uh you know, as far as the uh length of the school day and uh there I mean there's a lot of stuff on here. So instead of school day, it's school calendar. Um, it deletes a lot of stuff that wasn't there before. Um, anyway, it's really been simplified. But as far as the basic things that are in there, it revises policy to line with calendar statute um, changes which um, they are recommending. I think that's more required just because you guys want to follow state. >> Yes. um includes right I mean includes uh an optional revision to eliminate section D to streamline the policy language that merely basically says the same thing
170it has had in it before some editorial changes and legal references but for the most part um uh 3,300 um it's just updated to reflect the law. Um there was a workshop I was in last week and the discussion at the end I was surprised how many people boards had voted to totally ignore this law. >> They do there what 40ome maybe more than that districts that >> ignore the law. >> Wow. >> But uh Mr. Heist had made it clear that if we don't follow this very he made it clearly made >> and they threatened that every year and yet there hasn't been a consequ we're fine. The the problem is is that we we being a mountain county really need to be able to start about a week. We do get to start
171a week earlier than everybody else legally, but really we need two weeks in order to be able to have a school calendar in. And I'll just share with you um Earl um shared this morning uh with the next calendar. And right now to have it more equal semesters uh first semester to second semester um we really need to be able to start school a week earlier which in our case would be the 10th and then because right now in December um it has us going clear to the 22nd of December which is a w which is a Tuesday. I don't like that idea. I would ra I would almost rather eat eat two days and have them get out the 18th which is the weekend before and give them those two full weeks. However, when
172you take days away from the first semester, it really decreases because we have our weather typically in second semester. >> So the first >> Well, and we're unique in that if you I've paid attention to the weather we get every storm that comes >> Yep. through the northeast. We get every storm that comes from the south uh from the southwest, the northwest, and we'll be the only county that gets everything. And so, do we have to have that part in there converting to a year- round calendar? Because with our weather, I do not see any possibility of us converting to a year round calendar because we miss January anyway, or at least we did last year. So, is there any reason for that to be part of our policy? >> Well, >> I don't know.
173I kind of like to have that. >> I would like >> for working folks. I'll just be honest. For the working folks out there, summers are hard for people that are in business >> and industry and their kids are off for two months. >> I know. I have to help it in the winter time, too. >> You know, but I'm not saying that's what we need to do, but I don't think we need to delete it. >> I like it to be a discussion of some >> Yeah. I can't see us being able to do that because of all of the well January weather and the February weather and maybe even March weather. I don't see us being able. So, but I mean it doesn't hurt to leave it in there. But the other question
174I had was the board will revise the said only if necessary to comply with the minimum requirements. So, it will be the board making that decision and not the calendar committee. Correct. I'm sorry for >> I'm under number one waiver of opening or closing dates. >> Well, that's opening and closing dates, but we have to comply with the law. >> Well, says the board and last year there was some discussion whether we had to revote on that or not. I would like to make it clear that we need to revote on that as a board and although it may be a suggestion from the calendar committee, I think the board has to make that vote. Correct. Well, and and this is Go ahead. >> So, when we're looking at the closing date, that's again that's
175legislatively they tell us like for the 26 27 calendar, it tells you June 11th is the last day of the teacher contract. So, if I'm interpreting this right, that means the board could extend out beyond that, but that's because we call it called no days during the school year. Is that is that option? >> That was my understanding of reading this that circumstances like we had where we couldn't have school so much we can extend beyond the >> date. So last year we >> were we were given a reprieve from that and it was June 30th but any other year it's somewhere about June 11, June 12th. It's it's it's prescribed each year what the last day is. My question is if we put out this calendar and we say school's going to end this
176and then we get all this weather. I'm not saying that we don't need to do that. What I'm saying is it says the board will revise the closing date if only necessary to comply with the minimum requirements blah blah blah. So it should come back with a recommendation from the calendar committee that the board do this. >> Is that what I'm reading? >> So here here's logistical. So for example, I'm up 3:00 a.m. whatever. We have no >> I don't care about that. >> Well, but this this comes into play of what actually h what actually happens and determines it. Like last year, we had what five days in a row where the majority of our county had ice and did not have power. I had no option but to do a no day because
177we couldn't get kids to school and there was no power. So, we couldn't have school remotely. So, I had to cancel it. You would have to call a board meeting. No, that's not what I'm talking >> to be able to extend the school year five days because we can't pay by law. We can't pay people for not working. >> So, we would have to extend the school year by 5 days because it just pushes it out 5 days. I mean, that's the type of thing that I'd have to have flexibility in. If not, then I don't know how to administer that. >> It's the closing dates only if you need it to. And the closing date's going to be whatever is legislated is the last possible date. >> You get your hours in, you're okay.
178>> Correct. And last year, we didn't even come close to the number of hours, but we had we had a waiver. >> But but if I call a new day because nobody can work, then they have to work another day moving out or they don't get paid. So the closing date it's referring to here is not the necessarily last day of school on this current calendar. That's the last day of contract labor. Correct. >> Basically for the teachers that are that are contracting because it doesn't really say the last day of school or anything. It's closing date. >> It's not clear in the fall. I >> I will I will get clarity um on that. But I don't know how from a no day perspective, >> you know, if you can't work, >> you can't
179work or you can't hold school. I don't know how to do that. >> So, just as an example, the 26 27 template that I worked on has the last day of school on the third, the last day contract is the fourth. It's the next day. So, >> don't make that discussion. >> We could go any further in less >> and that's legislative. >> That's last contract. But we could go out to the 11th. So we had one, two, three, four, five no days and we kept extending out to the 11th then >> only we had no days. Correct. >> Correct. 215 day teacher contract. But if we went beyond the 11th, my interpretation is we would have to the board would have to approve that. >> They have teachers and all of our classified employees
180have different numbers of days that they are required by contractor. And so that's what that has to deal with. >> They go in the whole west. >> Are you gonna get clarification on? >> I I'll get clarification, but I don't know that >> I do not in any way, size, or form will want to get up 3:00 in the morning and do what you do. >> I don't mean Well, require What I'm saying is it would require a meeting in order to make that decision. And I just don't know logistically what that looks like. >> We will give you forgiveness. I'm sure we will give you forgiveness in that situation. I'm just I just for my own clarity, please. >> I want to know if I'm responsible if you call you for sure. >> Well,
181when I be awake matter, >> I'll include you in our include you in our group text. Honey, it's it I slid out the other day when the rest of the world was perfectly clear. I'm going out on two wheels. >> Well, you and somebody else over there. >> Yeah, >> we have two of you up there. >> Minutes left and we have a few more policies. I think we could get through. Okay. >> The 3320 is the one that has the um it does have a little bit of this was part of the original conversation uh that we had. >> Yes. um specifically to um well this is a big change obviously >> um but the one in purple um we could be cons we should be consistent with what we decided before and um
182>> yep >> period that's cons makes it consistent >> and then um wants to share with her sister. >> What >> I said, what high school boy wants to share a room with his sister >> or vice versa? >> Sister with her brother. >> Does that work? >> Not going there. >> I really think a student who doesn't provide a signed consent form should not be allowed to go. You know, the teacher is supposed to take those consent forms with them on the trip. If something happens, the doctors will not treat that child if you don't have that consent form. They have to call the parent and it might be a matter of life and death. Mine always meant in my purse with me on my arm. >> So, we have we have a notebook
183that goes on every bus and every for every trip and you never know when >> you never know. >> Are we still required to do a bus uh seating chart? >> Yes, bus seating charts are required. >> Yeah. Good. I like the fact that this policy does not have you must turn in get board approval and then specify how many months in advance. I worked at a school system where I had to turn every trip in before school started so that the board could vote on it the first month of school and I went that was so unreasonable and so difficult to figure out what you wanted to do. So this I think gives enough flexibility in terms of timing for and I like the way this system does it in terms of when you
184win a competition and you get to go to regionals >> we can manage to get the approval done >> and we've never turned down anybody that wanted to come last minute either. I can name names but I won't but >> um we've never turned them down because it's about kids. >> Yeah. teachers do need to be encouraged to get those requests in as early as possible um after they understand they want to do it. But >> well, >> I think this one >> this is much better than what we currently have. So then whenever you have the playoffs, you don't have to, you know, and it's in Raleigh, you don't have to um come at the last minute or write something so generic that it leaves it open or not. Let's hope they get a
185group to do that. >> But it is good if they do. I like it when they provide us information instead of just saying we're going here and staying overnight. >> I like to know what they're going to do. >> At the middle school, they were very detailed in the beach. >> And I like that. >> You know, >> there was a there's a certain person who shall remain nameless that needs to work on that a little bit. >> How many more do you have you want us to go through? Cuz >> Well, that's true. I mean, it's true. I'm not saying anything. So that was 3320. >> Um >> 3,400 back. >> That's probably it's that's probably a good spot actually unless you want to keep going. >> I think we're good. I don't Well,
186I mean that still don't get us through all of the three things. We >> still have quite a few. And >> that's a good chunk. >> No. Well, I'll tell you. >> Well, it'll never be. It'll never be finished. >> You have to start on that. It will never be completely finished because >> been helping Dr. with these and her her comment was, you know, once we get through of all these, >> it'll be a matter of just updating this one, this one, this one as soon as it happens. So, we're not having to recreate. >> Most of it's just real language versus that was a pretty major >> because it had been so long. >> All right. So, let me before we adjourn on there. So the next meeting is in December and it
187is on the um December 1st. >> There are some conflicts. I know all of us are been invited to the CLC dinner for the Bluidge Energies. >> Um on there which starts at 6:00 um for that thought was December is as busy as it is all the time. It would be hard to move that date. Would the board be amanable to bumping up our meeting time to say threeish on there then in hopes that we get through in time to get there by six? >> Public comment is the only thing we need to make sure that we publicize that comment so that they can actually we have to provide public comment at each of those meetings. And I would suggest if that's the case five o'lock time >> let them come later. at five at
188the end and then if there's, you know, anything major on any of them, uh, you know what I mean? If they have something, >> I think that would be better for the public, too, because they may be working a job, but >> if we can't get through by 6:00, should we start earlier? >> You were saying five would be the end of the meeting. We'd meet at maybe 3:00. >> I think 3:30 somewhere. I was I was thinking we might need to go ear. Do how big is the agenda? Do you know yet? >> So, well, I haven't published it yet because I was waiting to get through this one. So, people will get mixed up on which meeting, but um and that's us two. Um but we talked about it this morning. Um we
189have um I don't think it's as an intensive meeting, but we do have two speakers coming. One is the um basica for our five-year um plan. So that I think he's probably 15 20 minutes um because it is you know it plans out the things that we think are coming up or are coming up as far as facility needs. The auditor will be there. Now I sent you in advance the uh pre-information and and of course you know because of the federal shutdown for so long uh there is a delay in some