Asheville City Board of Education Work Session 11/3/2025

001Um, it is November. I am going to call the meeting to order by asking George to read the equity statement. In Asheville City Schools, we are committed to equity and anti-racist policies for all students and staff to learn and thrive. We recognize that our positions come with power, responsibility, and public service for the entire ACS community. We will model our commitment to equity through our practices and decisions. During this meeting, we invite a pause if harm has taken place, a moment to name the harm, and space to practice repair. >> Thank you, George. Um, all members of the board are present. My apologies to Amy. I didn't realize you weren't here before. You You didn't realize what? >> We weren't here before. >> Oh, that's okay. I'm glad you did not wait. I I didn't

002mean for you to wait. >> Um but we are all now here. Um I It's becoming a little bit too typical and I apologize. I'd like to make two amendments to the agenda and then take a vote on it. one. The first is to move 3.3 ahead of 2.3. And board members, it this has to do with how we request information about contracts and memorandums. And I thought we'd start with first a board discussion about it and then we can practice what we decide by talking about the November contracts and memorandums. Does that make sense? And then the only other addition is I have brief board chair remarks at the end. So apart from those amendments to the agenda, is there a motion to approve the agenda? >> What was that second change? >> Adding

003board remarks, board chair remarks at the end. >> I move that we adopt the agenda as amended. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? Thank you. So the uh amended agenda is before us and at this time I'm going to turn to item 2.1 and this is the beginning of a conversation. We will take five minutes or less tonight. Um I believe that in years past board Asheville city school boards have had legislative agendas. We have not had one since I've been around. Bunkham County has a legislative agenda. They do it every year. They post it on their website. We're all very aware that we could benefit from advocacy at the state level. I think we've all done it in our ways. And I the question I have for you

004is would we like to create a list of legislative priorities um which might be useful and if you could tell me tonight or by subsequent email again we're not going to finish this tonight what you would think is important for that. >> Is that a now thing? Okay. >> Um, I would ask that we consider some of the items on the Western North Carolina Early Childhood uh Coalition. Um, they're Okay, that's fine. Um, I would ask that we consider uh some of the um legislative priorities of the Western North Carolina Early Childhood Coalition. And that would include advocating for a funding floor for early childhood education reimbursement, which would help um all of our early childhood um activities that we choose to do. Hey, did you send us a copy of that example? >> Okay.

005>> I just found it on their website this afternoon. >> They had not had it updated the last time I looked. They now have it updated. I'm happy to send it to you. I could I could read this to you. Um, one is prioritize student safety and well-being. >> Hey, Sarah, excuse me, you got Sorry. Okay. They have a whole section on student safety. Um everything from SRO's fully fund Leandro uh school social worker psychologist uh ratios. They have a whole section on recruiting, retaining and rewarding talented personnel that has to do with teacher pay, competitive wages, teaching assistance. They have a section about accelerating learning, asking for calendar flexibility, um more financial support with children with disabilities, um those sorts of things, and then support recovery from Hurricane Helen. I'm happy I I have

006kicked this down the road several months. I don't know if you guys have noticed it's been on our agenda and I always kick it forward. So, I needed to actually talk about it tonight. So Jesse, I guess my question for you tonight is, are there particular items that you really wish the state of North Carolina and our legislature would focus on that would benefit us and our kids >> if you Yeah, if you think of something again, emails, but >> I mean I I think that that list is pretty good. Um I think Leandro Leandro is huge. >> Um I think that funding is huge. But I think um increase in retaining staff and increasing funding for instructional you know anyway all of our staff is important. That said uh I think it's equally important

007that they give us more people so that we're not funding when they increase um salaries we're not having to dip into fund balance to keep up with it. Um so we just generally need a lot more funding. Um I also think calendar flexibility is really important and maybe one where we could one of these days make some progress. Um so those are the things that immediately come to mind. I will say more importantly I think it's nice to have these articulated and set out so that um you know the the public can see that we understand and are working at a broader level. We we are we are a cog in a larger system and I think it's nice to articulate what what our priorities are but how to craft those is a little more

008difficult. >> S I'd like to uplift >> Yeah. >> Um one thing Amy said was about you know the increased funding. I'd actually recommend um prioritizing re-evaluating all of the um funding what do they call them? the funding um calculations. So like one teacher for every whatever or one principal. I think I don't remember the last time they've updated those. I know that for right it's been a very very long time. Um and right now I think they're operating in a antiquated sense of what schools need and would love to see that as a priority. The other thing I'd say again following up with Amy is in addition to just showing the public that we're think about this, who then do we present this these legislative priorities too? I know that the NCSBA has their

009um their representatives. We also Maggie, don't we also have a lobbyist for like the urban schools or city school systems and that kind of thing? who who would we present this to to get it into the right hands of our legislators? >> Rebecca, we're sharing. Um my one addition would be around funding for vouchers and where that's gone. uh the SBA's legislative agenda just calls for more accountability for private schools to to have to be accountable, but I think I'd like to see um something more um strong than that around the impact of vouchers on funding for schools. Liz, I don't want to miss you if you had anything, but >> um what what I've had has already been spoken, but I you know, I would like to reflect and think more deeply about it.

010>> Um this will be a work in progress. I just one thing I would add, and I don't know the wording yet, but um that our position is that consolidation would not benefit our school systems. Um, and having that said, um, makes sense. >> I got one question. Hey, you can also get some information from the NCA, right? I mean, from uh, and they can put it on there also to keep it updated. Do you mean do you mean we would talk to like ACE about what's important to them and include that in what we do or did you mean once we have our priorities share them with NCA? You might have meant both. >> Well, could we do both? >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, just making sure I was following. >> Okay. Again, I just

011needed to start this conversation. Let's continue to think about it. send me emails, work on refining it. Um, okay. Next item 2.2. Uh, Derek Edwards has a proposal about a field trip to China. And I think everybody should have gotten a handout from Derek. >> Good evening, everyone. Um, I will not bore you with going over the handout that I've given you. You can read that at your leisure. Um but in um short, we are asking for a trip to China um this summer. We would expect to leave June 7th. Graduation's the evening of the 5th. We'd have a day to clean up the campus and I would head to China on that Sunday. Um and then expected return would be the 19th. Um we haven't obviously without approval move forward. The only thing that

012would affect the dates is a flight pattern because, you know, we're not flying to Atlanta. Um, so it's tentatively when we've looked at it, it is hours and hours worth of flights to get to Shanghai. Um, so that it might push the date into the 20th, but um, in in essence, it's two weeks. Um, we would be spending the bulk of the time in Shanghai, also some time in Beijing. Um it's just a partnership that has long held. Um I think it even goes back to early Carol Ray time. Um and it is part of our Chinese language program. We actually subsidize the cost of this really heavily. The students will only be paying for um a flight and insurance um for the trip. The rest of the thing is covered by um our partnership

013with our sister school in it's the Shanghai Arietta Bilingual School in Shanghai and it's attached to the big university there. Um so anyhow that's in essence we have had a few interest meetings with some students at this point to make sure it's something that we had the interest to pursue. Um and we've got we think anywhere from 15 to 25 students um interested and it appears that it is a good cross-section of our student body of males and females um and students of color also. Um so anyhow that's it in a nutshell for our ask um about our trip to China. Um we actually were, you know, we came to you last year and asked about this and we ended up with issues with visas um in Washington at the time. So we're trying to

014move a little quicker um and get that dealt with this year. >> Board member questions. >> Um thank you. Quick question. Uh two maybe. One, uh I assume that you don't have to be in the Chinese language. Okay. Second question is for students who can't afford the flight um is there some fundraising opportunity or something? >> There will be fundraising opportunities and scholarships available. >> Okay, perfect. Thank you. >> Did you get to go last year? The >> No, ma'am. >> It just didn't work out. >> In fact, we have not been since before co um for those of you all maybe George was the only one on on the board. We this was the ma biggest hiccup when co happened because we were going that year and that was a that was a big

015issue of um how to deal with it. So we've actually not been since before co and normally the cycle would be about every three years we'd go so that students broadly would have the opportunity to go while they were in um high school. >> Derek I feel like I h I'm sorry Pepe you want to go ahead. Uh, I feel like I have to raise the issue of our current US State Department and if we see any um barriers or challenges for certain students who might want to go and their ability to get back in the country and that kind of thing. >> Um, I have had those conversations vividly with Juna Leang, our teacher, because that, you know, she went actually last summer to, you know, be with the school, our sister school, and

016I had those concerns when she went then. um and she does not have a concern with it. The the tour group basically that we work with does not have a concern with it. So at this point um we will operate I will be there also to ease any any nervousness for whatever good that is. But um the two um at least Tuna and I will be two of the chaperons with with the group. Okay. Have you been before? >> Nope. >> Are you looking forward to it? >> Absolutely. I will be the one that speaks the least amount of uh Mandarin in the group, so it'll be awesome. >> Other questions? Are board members comfortable with this being on the consent agenda next week for approval? Okay, I'm seeing nods. Um, so it will be

017on the consent agenda. >> Thank you, Derek. >> Um, >> what's that? >> Oh, I missed that. >> She's dancing. >> Oh. Um, at this time board members, I'd like to move to item 3.3 just to remind you about the amended agenda. And this is about board member requests for information that have been arising in the context of contracts and memorandums of understanding. It may have a broader uh context as well. Um, and after this conversation, we will move to a discussion of the November contracts and memorandums of understanding. just everybody knows. So, uh, starting in early October, a board member copied us on requests sent to Maggie for more information about contracts and memorandums of understanding. And as board chair, given that the requests were extensive and timeconuming, and following the advice of legal

018counsel, I directed that the request be moved to a public meeting for discussion. I have read all of the emails. Uh most of the requests focus on contracts this board has already unanimously approved or on um MUS or other contracts presented for information only. There's the exception is the email sent last week with requests for information about the APD contract for discussion today that we'll be talking about. Um some of the requests seek clarification that could help with decision making prior to a vote. other requests or for information that may not have an impact on decision ma making. This board and any board acts as a body and it's up to the board as a whole to decide when the superintendent or her staff spends significant time responding to the requests of an individual board

019member. So I'm asking the board tonight to discuss whether staff should be directed to provide all information sought in emails that we've been copied on or within what parameters. For example, is it up to Maggie or to me or to the board chair to decide when questions have turned into a project for staff to then bring back to this board at the next board meeting to see if the entire board supports the project. And so with that, I would like to open this up for discussion about what is the will of this body on this topic. Um, I'd be very interested to hear from Mackie perhaps or from other staff members about how burdensome it is because I suspect that it's quite burdensome having reviewed the questions. But what what tell us what you >>

020Yeah. So like I mean one or two questions is fine but um I as I reviewed this the the number of questions that came in at one time was going to create a significant amount of work for the team. Um so just like when it's that lengthy I don't mind one or two questions that's great but when it's as many as it was like that's a significant amount of work. Um we tried to address some of the questions that we received today. Um, and I think we got maybe a handful done cuz it's going back and checking with people. It was just it was it's a lot. And I would also note that so here's the thing. I don't think that it is really appropriate for us when we're giving something for information only to

021ask a lot of the staff like that kind of detail. I want our central office staff working on improving our education for our students, not micromanaging contracts that our legal council has already vetted. Um, and I also want to note just because there are folks, most people in this audience haven't seen the questions that we're talking about in some cases 8 10 questions about one contract that is um not even a contract that we vote on. So this isn't to be critical of the request for information per se at all. I think we should and we have a duty to ask questions about contracts and to um you know try to be as and in fact in my position outside of this work um you know people get in trouble when they don't uh boards

022have when they have let too much go and not been good stewards. But that's not this board. And I just think that the level of detail I can only imagine like it's I gotta tell you it takes me a long time to read them. So long that like I give up. I start reading the questions and you know 5 minutes in I'm one a fraction of the way through just the questions. So I feel like that's not fair to ask of our staff and I think it draws too much time away from what I want them to be doing. And I feel like if there are questions that are really critical, then identify those. But nitpicking about whether there's a semicolon or a comma or whether or not um there's information that's been already vetted

023by our attorneys, I just don't think that that's appropriate to ask of our staff. >> Okay. I think probably around a year ago, we did ask for the agenda to come out earlier and you have provided that for us. That means that if we get it on Wednesday, we have until at least Friday to ask all the questions that is necessarily correct to either the chair or to you. Correct, Miss Maggie? So it shouldn't be it shouldn't be a problem unless there is some question that's already been answered. If it's not have to deal with personal if it ain't if people want it personal it should should we ask those questions? I mean I'm trying to figure out a question that we are talking about. I mean something that might have came up. I will.

024Okay, I have them all printed. Um, the email that came for August, and I just want to be clear, unanimously approved already. Everybody here voted for these, but there are pages of questions that run the gamut for did we ask for hardship discounts? Do we track automatic renewal deadlines, did we compare this to other vendors? I mean there's this is August Jesse many pages September also already voted on by all of us many pages of questions this is October and so the question is should the staff go through these questions to provide answers in so I'm just going to stick with the ones for prior board meetings that have been approved that's the question first Then we can talk about and I think this will be a different conversation just sort of some parameters about

025asking for guidelines going forward. But the the question is I I it took me hours this weekend to read these. Okay. I didn't I didn't want to spend hours doing that, but I felt like I needed to get a sense of what this was involved. And I I have a list of some of the examples and they're just it's information a board member wants to know and I do believe it's in good faith. That's not the issue. The issue is should staff spend days answering these. That's what I want to hear from you all. I have a memory of Chris Campbell orienting us to our roles and one of the our legal trainings and my memory of it is that board members should ask questions. We should be engaged. we should be looking and thinking

026critically and there's a point where a board member might be asking for an amount of work that he I remember my memory is he called it it becomes a project and no one board member can create a project for staff that then it becomes comes back to the whole board to say hey does everybody think this is a project that we want to direct the superintendent to have staff do Now where that line is, I think that's what we need to work on together since we do have a board member who is I think creating projects that now we all need to decide is this a project we want or is this not a project that we want and that would be and I think it's regardless of whether it's looking back or whether it's

027looking forward it has to do with defining a way of understanding who like you said is it Dr. Ferman, is it the board chair? How do we know when it's time to say, "Okay, this is looking like a project. Let's just take it to the rest of the board for a vote." I'd like us to That's where I'd like us to get to. Um, and I I think I would I would propose that it seems appropriate for the board chair. the board chair is on our emails that the board chair can be monitoring and saying, "Okay, this I'm my assessment is this might be bordering on a project. So, we're going to put it on the agenda and have a vote on it." And that would be the process that we follow. >> You're going

028back to the question. So, if it's been approved and we have already discussed it, why are we going back to it? That's the question. I don't think we probably should. If we if I have if I do have a question after we have discussed it, I will come to you and ask you that question and then if you give me the same response that you gave me that we have discussed earlier, the conversation should be over, right? I I Rebecca, I'm in favor of what you've proposed that we, you know, adhere to a certain level of guidance from our board chair. And I will say that that I appreciate the attention to detail that was raised in the questions, but I think that these types of, you know, for lack of a better word, but

029applying this idea of a project um is is worthwhile. But I think that rather than looking at each contract that has already been approved that perhaps we could look at overall patterns about the things that we have questions about whether it's a contract that's coming up for approval or if it's one that has already passed and already, you know, been renewed or whichever the case may be. um rather than getting bogged down in the the individual questions about each and every contract that comes across our desk. I just want to echo that because I actually like that idea. There very similar questions were asked frequently. One of which was um have social security numbers been redacted? It's a good question. Um others were have I can't think of one but so send an email and

030ask one broad question generally speaking can we make sure that social security numbers are redacted I think it's the requiring someone to read through the detail is takes a lot of time and a broad question would be super helpful >> and and it's it's also it chances are if one person on the board has a question about it whether it's something about you know what is this common practice that full social security numbers aren't redacted. Chances are it's something that other board members have also mowled over. And >> um I think that's a great suggestion. Whoop. Um I have two things though that I want to say about or respond to Rebecca's proposal. one is um Sarah you have I mean I just having served as vice chair I'm I'm aware of um the amount

031of time that you put into this work and Rebecca and I'm very concerned that you're going to be the one to if if this pattern continues I mean hopefully it won't but if it does that's just too much time as you said you spent hours on it just reading through the questions this weekend and then to cogently summarize or think about how to that's just a lot for you. I mean it's a lot for anybody and that should tell us something about where we should be going. But the other thing so I I don't know if I feel like Sarah you're the right the board chair is the right person to do that work. So I leave that that's a question I have. And then the second thing is I don't think I want to

032be voting on whether each one of these is a project or not. I don't think it should be a board vote. We spend enough time voting on things and deliberating. I want to deliberate important convers top topics. I don't want to deliberate whether um somebody should answer a question about and but I I love about commas or whatever. But I love um the suggestion that you know somebody can and really what we should be doing is we ourselves need to take responsibility for asking the broader questions instead of going through bit by bit by bit. So if we do that then it won't be a big deal for you to look at it and decide whether to put it on an agenda or whether to just assign it to Maggie. I I totally would give

033you the discretion if if we can all kind of agree that we're going to distill our questions down to something manageable, but if it's not manageable, I don't think that you should be doing that. And I'm not sure that it should be considered at all if it's not manageable. Frankly, >> I appreciate the diplomatic presentation. Um, for those of you who do not know this already, I'm the guy writing all the questions. >> Um, uh, sending these very long emails going through every single thing. And part of that was, um, uh, frustration with feeling siloed, whether I actually am or not, and responding to, uh, Dr. Ferman's request that I send all questions to her. And so stepping back from that, what I have decided to do is this is my process. If if any

034of you don't want to receive it, that's fine. It is my process to go through each contract, figure it out, make a list of questions, and look for the patterns. And so the patterns that I have seen are we paid for an extra year for a building because we forgot to cancel the lease and sometimes we get into situations where stuff falls through the cracks. We had um some contracts come to the board that did not appear to have been read through and vetted in advance and maybe there's a process issue there. And then I do have the concern about um uh social security numbers that were posted online. Um and so it is reasonable to say I don't have time to read all that. Just know I'm going through that process and if you

035don't want it, if you don't want to see it, I had a request from a board member to share the questions that I came up with and I thought that it would be more transparent to share it with all board members. Um, I do want to echo um what Amy was saying about not putting that load on the board chair. I think we get into if it's a compliance thing, Dr. Furman needs latitude to deal with it however she's going to deal with it and it shouldn't be um uh jammed up in a process that the board has to go through in my opinion >> but to clarify are you expecting answers to these questions >> I am saying those are the questions that I have it is not realistic apparently for staff to go

036through it I don't think it's realistic that every question that I have needs to be answered by the superintendent. And so, you know, like there's a balance there and it's totally needs to be a balance. And, you know, I do not want the superintendent to spend a day trying to answer all of my questions, >> but I don't want a staff member to spend a day either. >> Right. And so I really appreciated, for example, um a note that was in our agenda to take questions about a certain thing and if we need to follow up, talk to April because she's the right person. The the idea that we got to take every single question that a board member comes up with and wants an answer to and it all has to run through the

037superintendent. Is that the best use of the superintendent's time? Can I? >> Yeah. >> And maybe I'm not remembering that because I I don't know that it's so much that everything goes through the superintendent because the superintendent is going to answer, but she's the only staff person that reports to us and so going to staff direct as a board member going directly to a staff person. I'm not remembering that we were told to go directly to April. Maybe I'm missing >> one agenda. it it's written into a note in our agenda. >> Okay. Sort of the way when you make a presentation, we can ask you questions while you're here. I think that what what's on my mind is that we have had a difficult budget year. the most uh constraints to budget took place

038at central office, which I I think was appropriate, but it does create a reality that the staff in central office are doing what doing what they have to do, but with less humans. And so I want to be mindful that h if a board member is going to staff to ask for things that feels to me like we've crossed a line from our governing role into remember the the clock image that we've used from our training that that we're not here to create work for staff members. That's that's the reason I think we go to the superintendent so that the superintendent can assess who who how would I get an answer to this question. Not that she would answer them, but that she's the one who oversees these staff. None of us do that. And

039I think that and I'll just be honest too looking at the volume of the questions doesn't it brings up concern for me about what h how we can all and in particular in this moment you like limit the the level of detail we're talking about keeping it to patterns big picture the things that impact governing so that we're supporting our district not taking up time of staff because they have full place in full-time jobs without us asking them to do any anything at all. Um, so that that's sort of what's on my mind is I I don't think it's appropriate for us to send questions directly to staff because then the staff are left wondering my boss's boss just sent me staff and it's only one of my boss's seven bosses. So like how do

040I and now we've not only even just the email and the question can create a sense of am I supposed to stop everything that this board member has asked me to do this because now I'm supposed to go to I think that's not what we should be doing. >> Well and to be clear I sent the questions to Maggie and CC the board so that you folks would see it. Um >> but could I just I want to clarify >> and I also um broke off those those overlying theme or the bigger themes in some separate emails, you know, kind of top line. So for the social security number issue for the SRO contract not being ready for review. Um so those are things that I broke off. So >> and the SRO contract I

041want to talk about still just to be clear. or not. But here's what I I feel like I've heard from you all that I am seeing some consensus that you all can share with me. But Pepe, I will note that every email said, "I request clarification in more information in electronic format on the following items prior to date and then you explain your system and then you say emailed responses are preferred." So there certainly was an expectation from a board member that somebody would spend hours. Again, I didn't even try. >> And I think there's um a month to five weeks in each of those requests. >> So I'm going to just >> And the alternative that I have for some items, some items would be subject to a um a public information request. And

042that's an alternative, but it certainly wouldn't get me the sort of answers that I'm actually looking for. So, this is where I'm going to sort of call for the board to chime in. I felt like we were moving to a place, Pepe, where you maybe heard us say, "If this is your system at home, great. I love it. If you want to send an email to Maggie and copy us if or not copy us but that's fine with six general questions that I would suggest you say Maggie as I read these these are questions I have I would put them in your lap for consideration. I don't think we get to say I expect written answers by a certain date to my voluminous questions. That to me is a is there's a difference there speaking

043for myself. But so I'm going to ask the board right now, do we think it's appropriate for one board member to ask for responses to these questions within some certain time period, an email? I mean, is it appropriate for Maggie and her staff to respond to these? >> No. And I I want to also say just to respond to you, Peepy, it's not about whether you copy me. That's I mean I'm I'm fine to be copied. In fact, I want to be copied because I'm glad that I got to see all that you were putting in there. Um I think the the request would be at least from my point of view for you to do that work and don't dump it all on them, but like come up with your three things like Sarah

044suggested or whatever it is and then send that to Maggie, copy us. But that that level of detail, you know, good on you for having the time to actually do that. I don't know how you do, but whatever. But I think that in the end, uh, you, you know, it's not about copying us. It's about the relationship, the appropriate relationship from board to superintendent to staff. So, no, I don't think that anybody should have to answer the questions at that level of detail. It's too much. >> Yeah. I also said no and thank you Amy. Um partly because of what you said at the very beginning Sarah reminder that we operate as a body um in our role as board members. Um and so uh if it's Yeah, actually that's all I'll say. We operate

045as a body. >> Can I ask a a question about that? Would it be appropriate for a board member to ask this volume, this level of detailed questions and send it to the board, Anna? That's that's kind of a question for you. I think >> that if any board member has this level or volume of questions, this level of detail, um would it be legal andor appropriate to share those questions with just the board? >> But I mean, I wouldn't we don't know the answers to these questions. >> I'm just not tracking. >> So, would it be helpful if I chime in here? >> Yes, please. >> Okay. So, um, Liza, let me see if I'm tracking you right. Are you saying sending these questions to the board and asking if this is like a

046project that the board would want to consider taking on because like I think that volume does create kind of a project and so saying like we have all these questions and I would like you guys to consider whether these are questions you also want answers to when it's that volume and putting it before the board would be appropriate. Yes. Um the I mean because I I think you know the one reminder I always give when we have all board conversations via email is as long as we're not having like responses we're not having an open meetings violation. Um so as long as that's not the case and it's just a request like would it be something we want to discuss as a possible project that's appropriate. Yes. or just you know these are these are

047the notes these are the the questions that I have about contracts and I notice this pattern or you know not even that but just >> sharing it with the board so that we can digest these things in a more manageable way and then you know act as a body to adjust or direct as is appropriate >> as long as it's not inviting discussion via email then I wouldn't have legal concerns about thought. No. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, I and I just want to say this, y'all. I'm mindful of the time and part of the issue here is this board has a lot of work that it needs to do. So, um I'm going to if I've understood Liza correctly, I think what you're saying is if in the future board members

048have lots of questions, they could send it to all of us. And then I just want to be clear. I don't know that I'm going to necessarily read them all, but we can have a discussion at the next board meeting if it feels like a project about whether we think it's appropriate for the board itself or staff to dive into it. Is that what you're saying? >> Yes. Or you know that any that any other board member after reading said email could say, "Hey, can we put this as an agenda item or >> to discuss whether it warrants the use of staff time to provide answers?" Yes, I can. That seems fine to me. That I was ready for that to be where we ended. >> Okay. Um, yes, Jesse. >> Last question. I'm not

049sure who can answer this question. What is the purpose of the work session here? What is our purpose? Can somebody answer that? >> I can. Okay. And let me offer this. if it is something that is to be voted on at the next meeting. >> So for us, I go back to our agenda for tonight >> and we are talking about contracts. The only one that's up for um approval is the one with Asheville Police Department. And so we would discuss that tonight to ask questions to get more feedback so that we felt prepared to vote next week. Right. We're going to get more information about other like so the purpose of the work session I believe Jesse is to hear what's going to be on the meeting next week ask questions get information so

050that we feel comfortable taking a vote or not taking a vote does that help >> yes but if we have went through the agenda and there's questions because everyone ones here including the superintendent because we during our retreat every every one of her staff were introduced with their job title and everything else. So if there's a question during the work session that we have here, isn't this the best time to answer I mean to ask that particular question >> for just to be clear for items that are coming up before us? >> My Jesse, what do you think that should we have questions today that have to deal with contracts from August? If he had if a question that was sent to Maggie and if if we sent you three questions already and you respond

051to them and then there's another question that wasn't asked, is that the time to answer the question? >> Okay. >> It's the it's the time to ask the question, not know maybe we wouldn't be able to answer the question. So if we we get questions ahead of time, we can be prepared as best we can to answer them during the work session. But if you come with another question, we may or may not be able to respond, needing some time to go back and look at documents and review different information before we give an answer to the board, but we can then send a subsequent email with the response for the board as you prepare for the upcoming meeting. >> I I think we always have to bear in mind the our time and what

052we have to accomplish. There is no way that you could answer the questions that were posed tonight. It would take us all night. So I think what we all need to do is be mindful that we and and of each other's time and superintendent's time and these wonderful hardworking people who are here so late with us that distill your questions into one or two things and then that's it and let it go. I mean I know I talk more than anybody but I'm just going to say that. Thank you. Bye. One thing I'd like to offer is if there's some general questions like there was a reoccurring question about did you get multiple quotes? Did you do this? Like those are things we can embed in the like the cover sheet. Yes. No, we didn't

053look for additional quotes because this is the vendor we've been using or yes we did and here's the offer you know we got from another company. So there there are some of these general ones that we can kind of embed into that cover sheet just to cover that general knowledge. Um I did want to say to my knowledge we have not divulged a full social security number. We have been redacting all but the last four numbers. So if there is an incident where a full social security number was out there then that is a misstep that we have to then take action with. But and if that is the case >> originally it was we have since corrected. >> Okay. Thank you. Um so like yes that's a no-brainer. We'll redact the numbers. Not a

054problem. The EIN number, that's a I mean, we can redact that, but that's a publicly available number. I don't know. You know, we can take the time to do that. But some of those general ones, yes, we can embed that into the cover sheet. That's not a problem. Um, I don't know that I'm going to tell my principles with contracts of less than $5,000 to run around and do all those things. They've got vendors they've used, so it probably will be contracts above $5,000. I don't think I we'd go through all that work for a contract of less than $5,000 is would be my recommendation. >> That's very fair. Thank you, >> Dr. Maggie. Just a clarification, overall on all procurement, including contracts, there's no requirement to get quotes. >> Correct. >> Unless it's over

055$30,000. >> Correct. Yes. >> So, um we do suggest it. Everybody with tight budgets usually does that. People clip coupons. I mean, people are very thrifty, but those, to your point, those repetitive contracts that are overall renewals >> are what they are. And each year, Matt and his team or April and her team and many of the others around the table will review those to like if the contract involves a reduction in ADM, which is what drives the cost, or a reduction in number of staff that drives the cost, they'll get those rebid with the correct numbers at that time. >> Yep. Board members, I feel that I have heard consensus that if the request feels like it's a project determined by me or Maggie and Maggie you can talk to me and say you

056don't realize how much work this would be or I view it and say gosh this seems like a lot of work then we will there's not an obligation on Maggie and her staff to provide answers at that time and we can bring it back to this board to discuss whether it warrants that invest. investment of time and so I have heard pretty clearly that I don't think we are asking them to answer any questions about the August September and October meetings and I will end by saying I really um encourage board members to ask questions but it is easier to speak in general broad um trends that you are seeing ask bullet point questions and just be aware that if it feels feels like there's too much detail, somebody's might say that's too much. So,

057just try to keep it as, you know, useful in general as you can. That would be helpful. >> And I'll say, Dr. Ferman, if something is if you you can kick something back to me and say, make it shorter, that's totally fair. Um, and uh, I'm still going to be figuring out what my questions are and what I notice and I'm putting things together in a list that's easier for me to read and review. What I don't want to do is well yes we are we operate as a board but individually we also have under the statutes a responsibility to oversee the school district and make sure you know that that um uh everything is is you know doing the best we can for our kids and for our staff and for our community. >>

058There's a lot of balancing. There's a lot of things um and uh I certainly understand where all of you are coming from. >> So we are going to move on because I want to make good use of our time this evening. And so we're now going to go to 2.3 contracts and memorandums of understandings. You all have that in front of you. There were some questions raised. I've seen answers both from legal counsel and from April and um is the most recent contract in front of us. >> Sorry, >> there is one. It it says August 1st. It should say July 1st. >> It was the 2025 that was the problem. >> Yes. >> Well, yes. And looking at the link, um I don't believe Yeah, that part. And then there were just a few

059other like minor changes as far as lettering and stuff that were made. So I don't believe the most updated copy is currently connected to this. But I okay I didn't I'll I'll be honest. I did not have an opportunity to finish reviewing it until Friday afternoon. So that is on me. >> So let me ask this of board members knowing this particular contract has some time sensitivity. This is approving our SRO's knowing that we don't have in front of us the um revised version the details of which from my memory are fairly minor. Their format the term is not minor but some of the others are minor. um what if if that contract is sent to us this week and we have an opportunity to ask questions and it could be on the board meeting

060next week for discussion, right? Since we can't have as much discussion now, I think what I'm trying to get to are there is there anything else about the contract with APD that you would like to ask tonight? >> Yes. Um the in in the past we've had this contract and they've provided fewer than five. Um not the past two years I think. Uh and there's a possibility that we might get an extra half person or something but I I just suggest maybe some flexibility in the number. Um but that's probably a minor detail. >> Do you mean the number of SRO's mentioned in the contract? It says contractor will si will supply the services of five >> and it may be that we need or that we might benefit from being open to six. >>

061Dr. Maggie and I have been working very intimately with the ad increasing our number of SRO's. It is not it is our desire. Unfortunately, we are assigned five. We only currently have four because of availability within the police department. but they have worked with us diligently to try to fill in gaps and um we're hoping to add that fifth one back in in January. >> But we're only paying for what we get. >> Yes, ma'am. We only pay for what we actually get. Yes. >> Thank you. >> Anything else about Let me just start with that one with the contract knowing we'll get more information and we'll have separate I'm I'm going to suggest we not put it on the consent agenda. We're going to talk about it next week. Um, everybody good with that

062for right now? Okay. Other questions that you have for information about other items on the list of contracts? And >> um, just very quickly, do is I thought that educator's handbook was kind of going away with with Infinite Campus. So, I see this whatever it is. >> And so, um, yes, we had planned on using only infinite campus. However, the usability of it right out of the gate being a new tool wasn't as streamlined as we had hoped it would be and getting our new code of conduct numbering system in there was taking a little bit longer so that we um went ahead for the elementary schools um and extended the use of um educator handbook for them. It was easy. It helped the process run smoother at the elementaryaries. Middle and high had kind

063of figured out an intermediary until we got all the stuff updated in Infinite Campus. Um, so it's just being used at elementary schools, but then we will seize that and then move strictly to Infinite Campus. >> Um, Megan, can I ask a a general question about most of these, which is that I know that lots of them are not top dollar or high dollar contracts and I get frustrated just because the amount the buildup of that kind of money for so many different programs. And my assumption is and this is what I'm want to ask you is that this is all of this money just comes out of local funds. We don't none of this is you know a funded our funded things and I'm I'm not this is not a criticism but just a

064frustration that like the education of our children the informing of our parents the way that educators talk to each other and talk to their families cost so much money. It's just like it's just annoying. This is this is public education. We're shelling out dollars upon dollars upon dollars to have s'more and to have blah blah blah. And it's just like, oh. Anyway, just wanted to express that frustration. >> Yeah. Not all of it comes out of local. It depends um where buckets we can use to pay for it. >> Okay. With Educator's Handbook, are we going to be transferring legacy data from Educator's Handbook into Infinite Campus? >> Yes. >> I'm sorry. Theoretically though, it went from Power School to Infinite Campus. Educator handbook is just the conduit at which the information and data is

065put in to P school. And now that P school is gone and infinite campus, all of that data transferred over on the state side of things. >> That really helps. Thank you. >> Anything else, folks? >> Knowing that the APD contract will be separate, are we okay with the remainder of the list being on the consent agenda? Okay, >> sorry. >> Forget that I said that. Okay, I'm gonna move on. Policies on second read. Yes, I'm looking around. Make sure everybody's ready. Yeah. Um, these all came to us last month on first read. We did not have any significant questions to my recollection. Are we ready for these to move ahead? Pepe, you look like you're about to say something, so I'm waiting. >> Well, on those this is the changes that we're making. I

066have no issues with. Um I do notice that the non-school sponsored trips are defined as an individual teacher or group of teachers. And it may make sense to make that more general to apply to staff in case there's an administrator doing a trip for example. >> Which which policy is that in? >> That's uh 3320. >> Um I'm looking at Anna. Do we do that now? Do we look to approve this on second read in its present form and put that back for further? So, I mean that's a I mean I think that's a relatively minor change. So, if the board is in favor of that, then we can go ahead and make that change for next week. That's that's very doable. >> Makes sense. >> 3320. >> Yeah, that's where that's where I'm looking

067at. >> I'm sorry. Yes, I'm with you now. Yep. So subp paragraph one would be broadened to say an individual staff member. Is that what we're saying? >> That's that's what I heard. Is that >> individual staff member? >> Individual whatever that makes I differ. >> Member sounds good to me. >> Yeah, works. >> Everybody okay with that? >> Appreciate you catching that. M >> I'm just going to say I assume I'll I'm going to I'm taking some comfort in the word sponsored that a teacher or a staff member has to get permission to lead a trip. >> Yes. Just want to ask >> and I'm referring to section G the non-school sponsored trips. >> Well, here's my question then. Can any staff member without permission take a group of kids on a trip? >>

068A nonschool sponsored trip? Yes. So, I think it might be helpful to the reason that non-school sponsored trips are clarified in here is because sometimes you'll have those trips like like I'm thinking of when I was in high school, our Spanish teacher would sponsor a trip to like Spain or somewhere that was not related to the school was not school sponsored in some way. And so that's why that's in there. But theoretically, yeah, I mean outside of school, a staff member could plan a trip for a group and open it up to folks. But okay, >> if there, you know, like, but when those trips are like being advertised in the school building, it kind of makes sense to have it addressed in policy a little bit. >> My question, Anna, is and we've been

069here a little bit before, that this language is not locally written. This is language that comes to us through statute, then interpreted and supplied to us by the school boards association. Correct. >> Yes. And so when we monkey with the words, do we run the risk of creating problems down the line and legally does the word teacher mean that we've now said that a principal or a guidance counselor are not allowed to do this? Does that do are we in that does does this wording create that problem for us? Are we solving a problem that's not really a problem? Um I mean I haven't heard it being raised as a problem but that you know I don't get everything not everything comes to me. Um but I mean generally when we're talking about that you

070know monkeying with that language we get from the school board it's like the major changes when you're like changing entire sections. Changing an identification from like teacher or group of teachers to like staff member or group of staff members I don't think of as being a major change. I think that it does just provide that opportunity if say like a guidance counselor was planning a trip or something. >> Great. Thank you for clarifying. >> I don't think it would cause issues. >> Folks okay with that? I mean I'm fine with it. Seems a little lawless but >> it's just a definitional >> statement. Fine. >> Okay. So policies on second read are okay to be on the consent agenda. Okay, I'm going to turn us now to um 2.5. And Maggie sent us an email.

071These are three different policies and she's going to cue them up for us that either she and her staff are looking for additional input from us or she's bringing us a recommendation. So, I'm going to turn it over to her, but um these are linked in your email and she sent a separate. So, >> um yeah, thank you. So, the public comment um one is we've still had the one-word virtual um public comment. I'm recommending that we take that out. Um when we brought this, um to the board previously, a question was asked, well, is anyone else doing this? So, we did a due diligence and found that no other districts we could find were doing this. I can't say that's 100% exhaustive that none do it, but all the ones we kept looking at

072was a significant amount didn't do public comment anymore. Um and then I also have concerns um for people doing public comment with the use of AI and video created um AI things that I just think it's safer that we do public comment in person. There is also the written option that someone can write an email to the board and ask that it be read into record as public comment um if they can't be in here if they can't be here in person. So I would recommend that we strike virtual out of that policy. Maggie, can you just point me to where that is? >> And it's very minor. It's it's one word and it's about the time allotted for group presentations and that if we strike that we can just say no, I think it's

073right in that first paragraph. I had it pulled up a second ago. Um, just for whatever it's worth, board members, I texted um the mayor and the chair of the county commissioners to see if they're doing virtual comment and they are not. Just offering that up. >> So, if if it's okay, then we can put that on, you know, just as a minor technical change going forward. >> Board members, what do you think? >> I just want to clock that. Yeah, I I hear that no one else does it and understand the the risks of AI, etc. And I'm trying to think back to the number of times we've had virtual speakers. Um is eliminating the possibility of virtual speakers creating um barriers of access for people who can't appear in person, that kind of

074thing. So, I just want to make sure that we are being equitable and where we create space for folks to give public comment. And that's why I said if we take out the virtual there still is they can send something in writing that can be read onto the record. So they can email a board member and say please read this on my behalf to be on the record as public comment. >> And so would that mean that similar to someone who's in person who has you know the 30 minutes before the board meeting and time to sign up that somebody who's emailing would have would be able to email us right before public comment to say please read this. >> Yeah. I don't know the detail on that piece about the timeline, but >> I

075um I would rather not read some of the public comments um and have the person read their own public comment virtually. Um, uh, I would prefer to keep this as it is with the virtual public comment for the access issues that George, um, uh, identified. And, um, I would be in favor of having an option for public comment at work sessions. Could we um could we invite public comment via a recorded video that could be screened prior to the board meeting? That's I mean we could and I will tell you that's extra work for the staff getting ready for the meeting and so is setting up the public comment. So that is kind of an extra layer of time spent preparing for the meeting. I think also um what and I think you were about

076to say something. Go ahead. >> Well, I was just going to say that if we're like asking people to like if they only have the option to participate virtually via a pre-recorded statement, then I do think that we would also be running into some sort of like access and also not giving them that same opportunity that others would have to like listen and then comment. Mhm. >> Um, so I I just think, you know, we may run into some issues there. >> Um, I think one thing I'll say is I what I was going to say about the video was that it doesn't really address the AI concern, which I actually think is well, we may look at it and think, oh, that's not really a concern. I don't know, man. I think it might

077be a concern. And I also don't feel like one, we don't get many virtual comments. The last time we got some that I remember very well was post Helen and we were getting the same comments in a lot of emails. Um so I think that folks do know they can email us with their um thoughts and if it is time that we can save the staff I would be happy to go ahead and get rid of public comment that's virtual. And if that does I will invite too for those who are listening or watching that if this uh if this policy change does feel like a an imposition or in terms of access then let us know but it seems to me that we should be fine. Well, can the virtual comments if we don't

078have virtual can they come in to come I mean through our communication instead of the board members is there a second choice that that if they want to send a comment does it have to be the board the one to receive it can we have Lisa Neil back there receive that particular email comment instead of the for cuz I'm not going to go and look and see if I >> I mean, yeah, they can email whoever they want to, but I'm just They were requesting that their public comment be read into the record. It has to go to Sarah or I >> and then we I would send it to Sarah saying, "You got this request for this to be read into the record." >> Okay. So, it would definitely go to in No, it

079won't. >> We don't want it to come to us. >> I mean, it will come to >> right >> you guys. >> Okay. Um, as long as it's not coming to me, I'm good. So, >> um, John Bighgam did this once. I don't know if y'all remember. He was sick and he sent us a comment and I read it. So, okay. I'm going to try to call the question, folks. I'm hearing some people say they like virtual comment still in there. I'm hearing other people say it could come out. Um, >> I know I raised I will tell you that if it take if if if it's taken out, I'm not voting no on the policy change. I just wanted to uplift a recognition that we are >> right. >> Um we are eliminating a

080point of access. >> Right. >> I'll I'll speak for myself just individually. I do understand that I think fewer people have access to a laptop with a video camera to join us remotely and they probably could, you know, again, they could write us, they could email us and ask that it be read in the record like that is always available to everyone. So um I >> I think and I h I I'm fine with us moving in this direction and for me a a motivating factor is the amount of time staff time it takes to coordinate this um that I I think and we're not getting them and and so all the setup that goes into it it's it's laborious for staff to make this arrangement and PE and to get emails um is to

081me a good substitute. >> Um I don't think we have consensus and so it I mean do we No. So I think it'll go on um >> for a vote next week. >> Well, it'll go on the next work session for first read. >> Oh, I got it. Okay. >> And we'll run it through the process. >> Y >> Okay. >> Anything people go down there? I mean that's the process forward. Can we ask um what the anticipated time is for continuing as we're doing in the method that uh staff is used to versus whatever the alternative is or even just a no, you know, is this five minutes of extra prep time? Is it 45 minutes of extra prep time? >> H >> I don't know the answer to that. I think Maggie, how

082about she brings that to us when she presents it as a policy? That is our next step. >> Um, >> okay, >> there's that. If people send it written comment, it's no staff time except Maggie and me just to say that. Um, so that can be information you bring to us. >> Yep. Um the next one that was on there for discussion is we started this policy last year after Helen to cover how we would respond to um issues if we have to close for some kind of crisis or a disaster. We've tweaked the language. I'm just wanting to assess does the board want to move continue to move this policy forward um so that we can put it on next month for first read. Were there any and if you have it just shared

083it for you if you have any specific like I have a question or this would take up a lot of time to talk about let me know ahead of time so that I can try to polish out a little bit more of that policy language um and then we can move it through a little faster if that's something the board still wants to make sure we've clarified. So if and this is for me um if we read this more carefully have uh comments questions email them to you is the idea that after everybody sends you input this will show up as first read correct >> okay did everybody understand that? >> Yes. >> Um I'm noticing a pattern. Uh there's this and then there's a proposal from ECAE as far as notifications for when we

084have closures and compensation for when people come and it would be nice to have administration and ACE on board on the same things. Uh I understand that's not always possible. >> Um >> Pepe, can I just clarify? Do you mean what we got? US board members got an email from ACAE about the policy changes they're going to speak about at the the meet confirm collaborate. Is that what you're talking about? >> I believe so. And and they overlap some of it overlaps significantly. This and so um >> this and just to clarify this policy would not be for inclement weather. This would not be covered under the inclement weather when we would close for just a day or you know for inclement weather. this would be like a major disaster or something happening that would

085significantly disrupt one or more campuses or the whole system. >> Okay. >> And as a reminder, this policy about emergency closure, we asked for this >> because it was so difficult navigating it after Helen we said we would like a written policy. >> Y >> so Maggie's bringing this to us at our request. >> Okay. Yeah. >> And maybe just a line at the beginning saying, you know, we've got a separate inclement weather policy here. >> This ain't it. >> Gotcha. >> Just an idea. >> Yep. >> Um and then the last So, send me any dig a deeper read on it. Send me your feedback and we'll get it on the um December agenda for first read. Um and then the last one was the facility usage. This is one that we were never

086able to come up to a um full board consensus on PTO's and FTO's having to have that insurance. Um so I'm just coming back and saying my recommendation is to leave the policy as is um that they would keep that we would ask them to have that insurance liability. Okay, board members, we've been we're just going to take a couple minutes to talk about that specific issue. We've all seen this policy many, many times. >> From memory, we had a disconnect between the policy that allowed for anou or insurance and we had a procedure that required or appeared to require insurance. We've also had a disconnect between um PTO's using facilities for a meeting versus PTO's using a facility for a bouncy house and a a riding bowl. >> Yep. So, um if they're having

087their meeting, the principal is there. So, that kind of negates the need for the the PTO meeting that they have on their regular basis. and principles, let me know if I'm wrong on this, but you typically have your regular PTO meetings with you in attendance and that would be the principal's there. They're kind of helping manage that meeting. So, I' I'd think that would be an easy no, they don't need liability because the principal's there. But if it is like, hey, we want to do um you know, something after hours where it's not the regular school day and have bouncy houses and all these things, then yes, they would need insurance for that. And I don't argue against insurance for riding pools and things like that, >> but any PTO operation that's happening during the

088school day is technically school sponsored because it's happening during the school day. >> If we can put that in the policy, that would be great. Um we do though typically have PTO meetings after school and um in the past we've had a distinction between events >> like the hot chocolate races are a good example >> and then there are other things that have flowed through PTO's like the book sale that the librarians are putting on and so there's a there's a continuum and I think some distinction is appropriate because some of these things get event insurance versus having to have um uh insurance in order to, you know, sell raffle tickets or something. Or, you know, selling go local cards outside the um uh the holiday musical event. >> Okay. >> Any clarification on that?

089>> Sure. So, I mean, um, I think that it's helpful to kind of go back to sort of where this conversation kind of where we landed on why there is this insurance issue coming up. And so, um, I think it's helpful to look back and say, you know, we do have this statutory immunity that we would have no liability, um, if somebody suffers an injury pursuant to like a facility's use agreement. So, we do have that statutory immunity there. The difference in that and sort of the insurance coverage issue that we've kind of talked about for these events is like say somebody did file a suit due to something happening on campus during a you know event sponsored by a PTO or something. If we have insurance coverage, then insurance would cover all of the

090bills for fight like for fighting that versus if we're basing it on statutory immunity, then it would be local funds covering the bills for making those arguments that this would be a dismissible claim because it was based on statutory immunity. Um, with that though, I mean, we do have that statutory immunity written in there. And I, how do I say this? I think when there's not a huge concern about like dangerousness, because we kind of talked about this at the office, if there's not like a huge concern about dangerousness or, you know, potential injury, then it's not as likely that we're going to get sued and that statutory immunity will still be in place. So I think it's kind of a costbenefit analysis from the perspective of the board of what risk you're willing to

091take on, you know, potentially having to have local funds to defend on something. I don't know if that's helpful or not, but I just thought that would be for Oh, go ahead. For those types of events, what is the procedure for getting approval for them? like the ones where we have a use. >> Well, so I mean then yeah, April, you want to hop in? >> Sure, I'll help you. >> So, um, you would fill out a facility use agreement and we work first. It goes through the principal, the school staff, the campus staff, and if they approve it, then we work to make sure that we have accommodations in place, whether it be security, cleanup, depending on the level of event, and then we have to talk about the certificate of insurance for big,

092just make sure that we're not putting oursel in a liability issue. you and then that's when we need to have that conversation. >> Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. >> And I think Pepe makes a good point about the event insurance being available when it is something that's more of like an event that's taking place versus, you know, like a meeting where stuff. So, I think that is a very good distinction as well. >> Yeah. And to be clear, if I'm mistaken, because I'm dealing dealing with this right now, you actually, if you're applying for facility use, you actually have to have a C, COI, certificate of insurance that's um current before you can even start to apply for that for that space. So, >> outside group I think any group, any unless you know, >>

093well, that's the question, >> right? >> It is any group. It doesn't it is any group that uses our space. But again, I think what Anna's trying to say is that when we're working with partnerships that are embedded in our schools is when we have this kind of conversation. >> What we don't want is someone, you know, here you can use my gym for your youth league basketball practice because then we're setting ourselves up for all kinds of liability. >> Right. But I guess I want y'all to help me because I thought this is why we were having this conversation. If a PTO wants to use this space at night for a PTO fundraiser, >> is that a school sponsored event or is that needs if that's where we got to this? Right. >> Difference.

094>> Yes. And so and that would not be a school sponsored event because the PTO is its own separate organization. Money wouldn't be flowing through the school, all of that. And so that's where that sort of like the event the event insurance kind of comes up with that where like you know if they're doing something like a fundraiser or something they would have that event insurance >> is what we're saying. >> Yes. >> Okay. I just want to make sure we're all clear about that. Well, except we have lots of situations where we will have a holiday event that is sponsored by the school and the PTO will set up a table and that PTO may be selling coffee mugs uh or Asheville goal uh discount cards and those don't like the people are coming

095the people are walking up the steps or tripping on the steps or falling down the steps. or not. Hopefully u but the liability is there regardless of whether the PTO has a table there or not. >> Correct. But it was a school sponsored event. >> Yeah. It's not a that's a school sponsored event, >> right? If it's a band program that the school's putting on and the PTO sets up a table. >> Yeah. >> They're not going to sue the PTO. >> Yeah. And it's on the PTO event. But there are times where there are PTO organized events >> that happen in the evening. We got amazing pictures of fall festivals in the Friday followup. Like so that's the example I want to think about. And can it be that for a PTO that's small

096and scrappy and low on funds, can they say to principal, can this be a school sponsored event that we're helping to organize? And is that a way forward for these families to have fall festivals? >> So, I really like that thought because we actually had the same discussion at our office about this. Um, and the part where it gets tricky is the money piece because like the money for PTO's has to be run separately, separate and apart from the money for schools. Um, and so school sponsoring like it gets complicated when you're talking about like a combined event if it's not specifically PTO sponsored or specifically school sponsored and there's money involved. And so we would have to work through that piece a bit more just to make sure it's clear where that's going and

097all of that. >> I think that we've had this conversation many times. I'm not looking to open this door, but >> PTO budgets are not in any way. >> No, >> you know, one is not the same as the other. And so if we're moving inadvertently towards some schools get fall festivals >> and some schools don't, that feels like something we want to be careful of. And can we organize the way forward for a school with a PTO that has a very small budget to still be able to organize through like under whether it's the school or the foundation or something that we create an understanding of how how they can do that. It feels like an equity issue where some schools are going to have so much more than others. >> Yeah. I remember

098just to interject one example. So in Rutherford we really lost a lot of interest in our FTO's PTO's all those groups and here we still have a lot of them that are very active and very big and those are great and like you said but some are smaller and to your point of could the two work together. What we encouraged those folks to do in those schools that got very small and ended up getting very little parent involvement is for them to close that official outside organization, but then the principal could take that under their wing and make a line item for, you know, the Cougar parent group and they could still do all those wonderful things they do now. Well, they just wouldn't do it as a separate organization, not a separate cash flow,

099not all those concerns about who's got the money, who's got the liability, and they could still function on campus and do those great fall festivals, but it would be under the direction of the principal at that point. So, there is another option. >> I want to just maybe we can put a pin in that. Um, there is a statutory role for parent teacher organizations. I've mentioned this before in electing representatives to school improvement teams if the PTO exists. Um, building on what um, Rebecca was saying, I remember the PTO at Hall Fletcher having a potluck and having a PTO meeting in the evening. And the idea of we can't do a potluck unless we've got, you know, a $1,200 insurance policy seems out of whack. Um I the other piece that I've mentioned months and

100months ago is the idea of in the currentou agreement requiring the parent teacher organization to indemnify the school district. And I think that one little piece is problematic because the insurance or the the indemnity for the school district exists only up to the level that there isn't other insurance or coverage. And so you're basically like um uh Dean Shatley explained 10 years ago to the board, eight years ago that um uh volunteers are covered. They're covered by our um statutory indemnity >> and at least at the time they were covered by our insurance policies. And so it's one of these things where we want our volunteers, we want volunteers to come into the building. We want volunteers to be involved. Um, and so can we have a policy that draws a line between um riding

101bulls and things that will cause trouble um and not and then very particularly with Asheville High, the space that the PTO was initially invited to use is in a space which has grandfathered railings that are not up to current safety standards. s and so for me personally the idea of the PTO indemnifying you know slip and fall accidents didn't make sense because unless we have everything up to code up to current code up to current safety standards you know like this is a work in progress we don't have enough funding to take care of every single issue that's grandfathered in and I just want us to be aware of the um what we're really asking for when we ask a PTO to pledge all of its funds to defend the school district. >> Um I

102I don't think that's in this policy. So I'm not sure why we're I mean I hear you, but I don't think that's in this policy. And it's in the procedure >> in the in the one we're looking at right now. Policy code 5030. That's what's before us tonight. Right. >> So it brings up that, you know, like that overall theme. What do we do as a board if a procedure doesn't match policy? >> Okay. I I hear that. I'm just saying that like we're not voting. We don't vote on procedure. you can identify that for the superintendent and if she wants to address that she can but that's not ours unless I'm misunderstanding the process. Um I will say that it seems to I mean what Rebecca the issues you brought up on equity are

103that's I that's been a thorn for me for a long time. I don't think we should have separate PTO funding. I think it should all go in a pot and it should be divided by five. full stop on the elementary schools, but that's not before us either. Um, so on this what I'm hearing and I I don't know, but it just seems like um we as I recall our insurer insurer was requiring that we have this policy. So I'm not even sure what we're talking about. Like Anna when you were talking earlier about well we could accept the risk true for purposes of legal liability but not for purposes of obtaining insurance coverage ourselves. >> Well so that's kind of what I meant is like because your insurance carrier has said they will not cover

104this if we don't have that certificate of insurance from parties using it. And so if we enter agreements without that requirement for a certificate of insurance, then we're only relying on statutory liability for any type of protection. That was what I >> But will they and but they will they still write insurance for us if we choose not to to require coverage from certain groups. My understanding from them was that they will still insure you generally, but for anything that was not covered with that certificate of insurance term and that agreement that they will not provide coverage for that. You will still have general insurance but not for whatever is not contracted for with the COI >> and we'd still have qualified immunity as well. >> It's not qualified immunity but anyway. Right. Yeah. >>

105Governmental. Yeah, it's sovereign immunity. It's a form but anyway so that we can make a decision if one is needed. This policy has been approved, right? It is our policy. >> Our insurance carrier will ensure us with what I'm going to call this exception. If a event is happening on school premises that was not a school sponsored event, there's potential liability. Is that what you're saying? If there is a an event on campus that is not school sponsored and we don't have a certificate certificate of insurance then the insurance carrier will not provide coverage for that. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> So does everybody understand that? And so either if this is correct a group will provide their own insurance because they want to do something that night and there's a process they would go

106through the principal and others and somebody may say this is merely selling go um what are they called go local cards this is a dance and there could be some injury right and somebody's going to be looking at that and coming back to us or not to us I I think I'm just trying to get to a we can keep the policy the way it is. We know that if school if events are on school property and they're not school sponsored, we have liability and that is a risk and there is some kind of process before a non-school sponsored event would occur on the property >> and for lack of a better person, April or somebody is paying attention and could say this is concerning. these are some high-risisk factors and we could do something

107about that as it arises on a case- by case basis. Is that where we're leaving this? >> But I I think this says they must. So I think the challenge to me at least is the wording of this policy suggests that it's always required. Um and am I wrong? Go ahead, Anna. >> Well, you're not wrong. It does say must, but then the next sentence does allow for a waiver of liability instead. Well, and alternatively, >> the superintendent made to execute a waiver of liability that no liability will attach to the board. >> Gotcha. >> But to Pepe's point, the procedural, the way this is put into procedure >> does not allow for that waiver. >> The procedure says that >> all not school sponsored events by groups that we call PTO's are required to

108complete the full package. So it's allowed in policy but we've taken the procedure is where it says we don't use those waiverss >> and it also says or designate and in the past that's been understood as the principal as the the person on the ground who makes that decision. So why can't we just execute change the policy to allow for a waiver >> and then um >> the policy does allow for a waiver? >> No procedure. I'm saying I don't feel comfortable as the superintendent signing off on an event at a school where someone doesn't have insurance, >> particularly because our insurance won't then cover it >> if we they like if they exceed whatever, they're going to come to us. So, I just don't feel I personally don't feel comfortable putting the district at

109that liability. >> Um, >> does that apply for meetings or what what does it apply to that you don't feel comfortable with and what does it not? Where's that line for you? I would have to look at def different examples. >> I mean, I guess we still we are not going to be liable. We would have to pay for the defense. >> And if injuries or damages are assessed, >> it wouldn't be we we are not liable for those. We can't be. We're immune. So, we wouldn't have liability. Correct me if I'm wrong, Anna. Unless Go ahead. Is that Am I wrong? I mean know theoretically we have yeah theoretically assuming there weren't you know >> I'm always like it's always fact-based so it depend on the specific circumstances and there are potential but we

110do have statutory liability for outside groups using the facilities >> we have statuto >> not liability immunity >> thank you yes I said the wrong word >> but having said all of that I hear I hear you I really do and I I don't love the not having requiring insurance liability insurance I guess What I'm wondering about though is if there's w language for a waiver in the policy and there's language for a waiver in the procedure that only makes it possible that you could under some circumstance decide there was so little risk that this non-school event is going to result in injuries. Maybe that would never happen but at least it brings some coh coherence between the two. Um, otherwise we need to change the policy to take out the waiver and just say

111everybody has to have it. But I'm what I'm hearing from the board at least is some discomfort with requiring all PTOs to have liability insurance for everything. Is that am I right about what I'm hearing or no? to clarify. I think that as long as like to Heidi's point, if there's a clear path for a PTO that cannot raise enough funds to divert a significant portion of those funds to insurance that there's a way to be organized under the school that is clear and supported and not, you know, left for them to figure out on their own. But so can I this is to Anna. I'm gonna just say that of the nine PTO's or eight that we have five are 501c3s and three might not be. Is that >> I don't know. >> I

112have no idea. >> Okay. Some aren't. >> Sure. >> No, they're not all 501c3s. >> They're all automatically 501c3s whether they've got the paperwork from the IRS or something. >> They don't have a tax ID number. They're not filing form 990. There is a distinction. So, all I'm saying is >> Excuse me. They're all technically automatically nonprofits. You're correct. Thank you. I'm sorry about that. >> Okay. Um, if I'm just going to use Hall Fletcher as an example because I don't think they're a 501c3. >> We are. Oh, well then >> we are but we don't when I in the year I mean my kids are in high school now but when we were at Hall Fletcher we had 501c3 but we were so small our our our taxes were filed on a postcard and

113we did not carry we did not pay for insurance policies Sean do they >> we do not >> so you you you found so the principal has said through another partner there's liability coverage they can access. I think that there's solutions. I'm not asking for the district to take on unnecessary risk. I don't think that's that's the a board should do that. I think though that we should >> we should have some support so that they can get to the United Way and have the coverage they need to be a PTO. When I asked the PTO leads last year of each school if they had 501c3 status, each school lead confirmed that they did. Whether or not they keep that current year-toear, I can't confirm. But when we convene the district PTO last year, they

114all confirmed that they were 51c3. >> So, folks, um my distinction is was useless, so forget that I brought that up. And I get I guess for me I think I'm putting this back on maybe Anna or somebody to bring us a little more clarity. I understand the risk and if the because I do think if you're a 501c3 you are not necessarily a school sponsored group. You've chosen to be a separate entity legally. That to me is a big distinction. So I see a group that's not truly a 501c3. And I would just like to be I don't know why we have these 501c3s. Nobody gives that much money that they really care about it being a charitable deduction, right? Like I don't really know what you're getting from your 501c3 if you could

115just be a school sponsored group and work through the principal like in Rutherford County. So I think I just don't understand how we're asking our PTOs to operate and would it there be better options? Does that make sense? I know I'm rambling, but >> I mean I think it makes sense on a theoretical level to say, "Hey, you know what? thought we could just avoid all this problem by having all the PTOs become a part of the school group. I get that. I don't know that that's before us. Right. Right. >> And so what I think is I'm what I'm hearing though is if Paul Fletcher has a workaround and I appreciate Rebecca because I was also thinking about what Heidi had said. If there's a workaround and the P this is not going to

116cause a lot of angst for the PTO's awesome then keep it as is. The only thing I would could be concerned about is the conflict between the procedure and the policy. But aside from that I'm fine with this. >> Well and Amy to the point about the conflict when we talked about this before the reason we got to the place that I remember that it's not a technically a conflict is it doesn't require the waiver. It says it's allowed and it was back I think at that point to this isn't language that we created and maybe you don't consider this a major change but we thought you leave it as and then when you go to the procedures where you find we don't allow for those it's not an and it's an or you you

117can and our through our procedure we have elected to say we don't take on that kind of risk we require the waiver >> that works thank leaving everything the way it is, but we have I appreciate this full conversation about what it means and how it operates and there may be some feedback that we get from principles and others about how we can better support all PTO's. Is that what folks are agreeing to? I would suggest I see that it says all user groups except school sponsored groups must furnish a certificate of insurance. It may make sense to have an option for a school to a school or department or teacher or whatever just explicitly say that um a what is the term? It's not school sponsored. It's school um school related groups um that

118the the school may choose to sponsor an activity. Am I saying that accurately? >> I I would put forward that that's not necessary. the school like there is always the possibility for it to become a school sponsored event where that's appropriate and then for PTO's that have chosen to become 501c3s like to your point Sarah they've chosen to be independent and then they need to through whether it's through United Way sounds interesting but to have that coverage and then through our system support them with finding out how to do that but no no policy changes need to be made for all of that to work. They're already doing that with the policy that we have. So, I I I think that I would put forward that we're we have the policy we need and we

119don't need to make any further changes. >> Okay. So, do we ask uh the superintendent to update the procedure? >> No, >> because the procedure is not compatible with the policy. I think Rebecca I think explained to my satisfaction when I asked the same question that the procedure is not actually in conflict because the policy says they could that that it's it's a I don't I now have moved off the policy but it's not Wait a minute. Here we go. Um, alternatively, the superintendent may require a user group to execute a waiver liability. Waiver of liability. That doesn't mean the superintendent has to make that option available in procedure. >> Okay. So where where where we were coming from when we got into this um two years ago there was a lot of confusion when

120an email went out to principles and assistant principles that was interpreted by at least some of them as requiring a certificate of insurance in order for a PTO to have a meeting. And so I think that we've had confusion in the past and anything we can do to reduce that confusion moving forward would be helpful. I I vote we leave that in Maggie's capable hands to make sure communication is clear on that distinction. That's my take. I'm not hearing a ground swell of >> people that want to change the policy at this time. Okay, George, you're good. Yeah. Okay. All right, folks. I am mindful of the time and I'm going to keep us moving. Um, we have some discussion items that we're going to cover and there will be a point where if these

121take longer than I think they will, some things are going to get moved off our agenda to a later agenda because we have a lot to do in our close session tonight. So, just giving folks that heads up. Okay. On that note, Maggie, not I I do not Item 3.1 is going to take the amount of time it needs. Yes. That >> not Understood. Understood. So, um, as we've been unpacking, um, the courageous conversations about race protocol with the board, um, we've kind of covered the compass, we've looked at the four agreements, and as I said, we would take kind of one go through the six conditions. um and spend a little bit of time on each one because there's a lot to unpack with these and process um and have some opportunities for discussion.

122So, as we remember um or hopefully you remember um and just reentering yourself as you look at the compass, it's divided into four quadrants. Believing, thinking, acting, and feeling. And what we ask staff as we begin meetings is, you know, just take a notice. Where are you showing up on the compass? if you feel that you're really pulled in one quadrant, how can you center yourself? Um because we know when we're centered, we're able to make better decisions and engage more productively in conversation. Um so just think about that. We've had some active discussion. So take note where you are and if you find yourself in one, try to think about what you can do to bring yourself more to the center. um our courageous conversations about uh race norms um our four norms and

123these don't change they kind of stay and they are as they are you don't need to start with one and move down to the others like I'll talk about with the conditions so these are kind of independent in themselves so as you look at those four conditions and you think about the conversation ahead of us just hold one of those that you may need to really lean into to yourself so that you can continue to participate productively into this conversation So then we get to the six conditions and these are you start at the top and you move down. You can't move down into the bottom two until you've really processed information going through the top and I'm going to explain that a little bit more. Um so you'll notice some color trends and all

124those three pieces together form the overall protocol. So if you hear people referring to the courageous conversations about race protocol, it's the compass, the agreements and the six conditions. Those three pieces make up that whole protocol. So as I mentioned the six conditions are progressive in nature. You start with tier one which is engaging. Then you move into tier two which is sustaining and then tier three which is deepening. And the idea behind that is is you can't have a deep conversation about um things about race if you at least can't sustain staying in that conversation. So if you are get very quickly uncomfortable and find yourself shutting down and not able to process then you're not able to deepen that conversation. Um, and if you can't even engage in a conversation about race, you

125find yourself really, you know, pushing to one side of the quadrant or another, not able to center yourself as you're having that conversation. It makes it difficult to process all that information and really have those deep and sustained conversations about race. So that's why they're progressive. Um, so the first condition is focus on personal, local, and immediate. And really what that means is you're really shifting blaming external factors and thinking about what can you control within your own actions that for us in particular influence student achievement and thinking about yourself and what is under your um purview, what's under your control, what do you have the ability to do as an individual and this group as a board to impact student achievement. You also know you've got the state, we've got things happening locally, we

126have all these other factors, but thinking as a board, what do we collectively, what are we able to collectively impact as it comes to thinking about student achievement, particularly the inequitable outcomes um that we see with students in discipline and um academics. Um, so continuing on to this is really thinking about if you're going to develop a much deeper understanding about race, looking introspectively at yourself and your own racial existence as a doorway to understand the different complexities about race in the United States. Um, so really thinking introspectively, what do you know? What have you experienced about race? Thinking when's the first time you noticed there were different races? When's the first time you noticed something um or had a question or realized, oh my gosh, there are deep inequities and then noticing that they

127fall along racial lines? So, talking and your relationships with people from other races. Um just really introspectively thinking about that and really inwardly focused. Um and the rationale is that you can can't really expect to understand the racial experience of others if you're not first looking inward. So, it's about an intro um an internal um understanding and then using that and applying that with external experiences. So, the question they always ask in the training is to what degree does race impact your life? And depending on who's around the table, you'll see different numbers from 0% to 100%. and they talk about this continuum of um racial racial consciousness. And if you are 100% you realize that race impacts everything everywhere every time you show up. You would say, "I'm at 100% racially conscious. I understand

128that." But you might say, "Well, I don't know what you mean. I can go to the grocery store and find band-aids that match my skin color very easily." Or some people have can't find band-aids that match their skin color. um or I can walk into uh a restaurant and I'm immediately recognized and offered to sit down or someone comes into my office and they may um look at the people in the office and assume that the white person is the person in charge. So that would be like how much do you realize how racial um racial things impact your life and then understanding that they impact the life of everyone around us as well. So this is this kind of paradigm and talking a little bit about how to move through this flowchart. So um

129the top through is I don't know, I don't know, and then I don't know, but I think I know. And these are kind of your lowest number of being racially conscious. And you can fluctuate between those. And you would say, well, I don't know what the lived experiences, and I'll just speak from my personal local and immediate. I don't know what the lived experiences of a black person are because I'm white. But I think I might know because I saw how someone got treated and I'm going to go through my life operating in that mindset without really then leaning in and digging leaning into a courageous conversation. So I'm very unaware, but then I start getting aware and I think, well, I can assume how life for Kim Robinson is because she's a woman of

130color, but then I didn't ask her. I didn't engage with her in a conversation. I just drew on assumptions. So what this is telling us is we need to start moving down in this protocol kind of down the line. So but then I'm going to say let me actually ask him what is this for her? How has she experienced things? This is how it's been for me. How has this experience then for you? So then I start realizing actually I I know I don't know what it's like to live in a the body of a person of color because of the lived experiences that I've had and that many white people do live because of the natural privilege of living in a society that prefers the culture of whiteness. And we'll unpack that as we

131go. So then I have to have the will to really lean in and engage in courageous conversations, sustain those conversations and deepen those first by being able to share here's what my racial experience has been with knowing it's going to be much different than those experiences of people of color. So, it really takes that I know, I don't know mindset and having the will to really engage in those conversations with people of color before you can come up with I know, I know, and I'm going to make a decision that this is the best thing for our students of color. So, that's where it becomes very important that you understand that flow of this. I could sit in my office and make a decision on what I think is best for the black students in

132our buildings. But that would be living in the I don't know, but I think so. Then I've got to move. I've got to push myself into and use my will to say, "Let me actually speak to the black students. Let me talk with their families. let me talk with the teachers and the staff and engage and sustain and then deepen those conversations before I make a decision on here's the intervention we're going to use that's going to help increase the achievement for our students of color. So that's personal logo immediate. You've got to start with yourself, unpack what school was like for me, what my experiences were and not use what I know has worked for me and assume because it works for me, it's going to work for everyone. So, that's part of this

133really moving through that racial consciousness. Um, I guess that flowchart because you want to keep going back. You want to get all the way to I know I know like I know what will work for students of color because I've talked to them. I've studied this. I've worked with their parents. I've talked with the teachers of color and I'm now able to say this is a recommendation for an intervention that I believe will work. So that is basically condition one packed up into about three minutes. So just inviting the discussion from the board or questions or clarifications. >> I got a question. Were this designed for us or is this designed for the whole group as a work session? >> This is just this is for the board. >> It's for the board. >> Yes.

134Could it be for all of us instead of a time where we all can discuss the type of courageous conversation since it is among all of us except I mean as the board what does it mean for us to know this information if everyone else don't know it? All these staff have attended courageous conversations about race. >> Everybody had come. Everyone that went through the whole courageous conversation. >> Okay. >> Yes, we went through it. [Laughter] >> You and I talked about this back in August about in the world that we live in and the state that we live in and things that are going on that this board remain committed to doing this work. Okay? I mean, I'm and so part of that was, you know, we talked about the compass and where this

135came up is some of us haven't done the training again, the four of us that I just identified. So for Maggie to take a little bit of time during this board meeting really for the benefit of Pepe, Amy, Liza, and me so that we can start to have some basics of this training is what I think Maggie was doing tonight. >> Yes. But >> and Oh, >> no. My my question was I didn't know that we all that everyone else have had this crazy conversation except the members of certain members of the board. >> Okay, I'm I'm good. Some of them have already been twice. >> Thank you. All right. >> I want to lift up that I don't think it's just for the four who haven't done it. It's a good refresher of me,

136right? >> Good. >> Um and I I'm trying to figure out where I am on the compass right now. I'm I'm and I'm trying to say I wish we had looked at this at the start of this board meeting. Honestly, um >> because respectfully the conversation we just had with our lawyer here in the room about a single policy around like I think I think our legal team knows what we were trying to accomplish that we just spent 30 minutes talking about little language about a policy around our PTO and FTO's. I mean, we're I don't think the word students has been mentioned yet since we've been here. And that's not a criticism of how the agenda was laid out, but I just wonder if those conversations around that policy and the things we had

137before might have been different if we' looked at this first. Um because my role here as a board member, yeah, I I understand that I need to enact policy as a board member. That's we're a governing body. I get that. Um, I also know that since I've been on the board, we every single year we talk about the same failings that we've had with our black students, our brown students, our black families, and our brown brown families. Um, and um, that's the work that that is feeding me, not looking at whether some word or phrase is missing from a policy. And so, um, anyway, I appreciate you, Maggie, bringing this up. Um, if I It looks like we still have the other five to get to. Uh, speaking only for myself, I would love for

138that to be the start of our next work session, not two hours into it. Um, so kind of unless there's other questions or something people want to discuss. So we'll go through the rest of these. They build on each other. So as we move through these, if I like when what you'll have to hold each other for is holding you accountable for using these steps as we have conversations. So if you're talking as a board member and you start saying well they and we don't you that's when you have to say Jesse I need you to talk about what's coming up for you what's happening for you not you're speaking for yourself and without like written testimony from someone it's very difficult to say well I can speak on behalf of all these people using

139this protocol as you make decisions ision as a board on okay did we think about personal local and immediate and now isolating race as the next one because then you say well I can't speak for all people of color and I even as a person of color can you speak for all color people of color so then have we done our due diligence about collecting the information we need so that we are informed about what's happening amongst the different members of our community so we'll these build on each other and speaking as when you're speaking and say, "Look, I recognize I am a white woman. I have lived a very privileged life. I have come from, you know, a family of educated people. So, that's the lens that I'm looking through. So, I can't just

140pick up my all of the things and make decisions or participate in a conversation speaking for other people. So, really focusing on as you speak and think like I am a white a white female. here's the the perception I'm bringing because then we get down to multiple perspectives. So then how do we make sure we're inviting multiple perspectives um into the conversation? So just like these will get more challenging. It's easy to say I'm going to focus on me and what I can think about, but then we start digging into these and they do get much more challenging. And I'll help guide you as we go through on this is how this can show up in board discussions. Um, may I ask one quick question if if is that okay, Sarah? Yeah. Can I ask

141a quick question? Um, I recall that the training was offered last spring or >> last summer, >> early summer. Yeah. So, is that when it's going to happen again for those of us who >> or is is it possibly going to happen sooner or >> we were we did it last year at the end of the school year so that teachers can make use of one of their optional work days and set the date, but our plan is to keep holding this. Um, and once we finalize the date, we'll let you know. >> Thank you. >> One comment that I want to make is I I do really appreciate going through this again. Like George said, I went to two days of training. This was incredibly helpful because what you don't use, you don't keep.

142Um, but then supporting each other in when to use this and not to use it in spaces and places where it's actually not supporting what we're doing. >> Um, because this is courageous conversations about race and we know to George's point, >> that's a that's a top priority is what what is happening, what we notice, what our data tells us is going on. And so, um, I look forward to supporting each other with that. >> Thank you, Maggie. Um, so the next item on there, um, this was a huge learning for me. I did not know that when the South French Broad Middle School was built, it actually was used for, I think, three years to house all the black students that were at Stevens Lee. Um, so in between integrating the high school, they

143kind of put them all the black students in one school um, before they opened it up and they also brought in the rising ninth graders. So it was actually 12th through 8th grade. Um, so I received a letter from the alumni of the South Ranch Broad High School asking if a memorial plaque could be put or kind of sorry, a historical marker could be put on those grounds. Um, and it was just an amazing conversation. and I learned a lot about the community that how they were thriving in that building. Um, and then the great experiences that they had as a as a collective group. Um, and then their ask is that the board would approve for a historical marker to go on the property. Um, and then I have I asked a lot of

144questions about what they they kind of gave me an idea about what they're looking for. I'm going to engage students in coming up with some drafts of what that might look like. Um and then um then we'll bring that to the board for approval and we'll get some they've off they've offered also to help fund um the plaque or whatever marker we have um installed. So just want to make sure that this is something the board is supportive of and if so I will move forward and um bring it to the board when it's ready for us to actually do the installation and move forward with um actual approval and reviewing of where it would go. Um >> yeah, my only concern would be that if as I'm understanding it, because I wasn't aware of

145that particular history either, um this is all part of what comes out of systemic racism and the clo anyway the integration but also destruction of um really successful thriving community schools. I would like not to ask them to pay for it. >> I mean, yes, they offer. >> Yeah. No, I understand. But I would like to kindly >> Yes. >> My own preference if I were to s or at least for us to think about if we can flip the bill for that and not ask the members >> correct that particular. >> Sorry. I should have said I'm going to work on finding funding sources for it. Um but yes, they were like if you can't we'll help. Thank you. I am seeing unanimous agreement. So, thank you, Maggie. >> Yep. You're welcome. >> Okay.

146>> I just want to I know we're going long and um I'm thinking about one topic to the next and the the reality of why that request was made. >> Looking at when that request was made. >> So, to Marty or to Bobby Short. Yeah. >> And there's been so much transition there. You know, this isn't something that's just come about recently. It's been this. And I'm not I'm just asking for a pause. >> The level like Amy's bringing up the level of harm >> and like the acknowledgment of I just a pause just I just need a pause, right? Um, >> I'm grateful that you brought this to us, Dr. Ferman. Thank you. >> Yep. >> And I had the greatest time meeting with the alumni. I was they were just really lovely people.

147Rebecca, I appreciate you naming that and the harm. That's part of what we read at the beginning of the meeting. And I I hope that as we go through this process, not only the process and also the whatever ends up being at that site um can be a small part of the repair that we also talk about. Yeah. Thank you. And I don't mean to I feel like I look forward to this being an experience of us moving from I don't know but I think I know to I know because I know like whatever however we can engage and learn more um I think this like the history of this is so we've seen it we've read it in textbooks and yet here we are with like people that are bringing this to us and

148this is I mean the AVL Watchdog just wrote this huge piece on what happened with Black Asheville and like um I don't want it to get lost in the times that we're in like what we're what we're worried about, what we're afraid to talk about right now. Um so that's on my mind as well. Okay, board. I know that you are tired and there's a lot of information being thrown at you, but a lot of people have worked really hard on this study and I know we have some parents and some stakeholders who are curious about an update. Um, I just want to go through the present. I've given the board a written update, but I just want to kind of uplift some of the highlights and give you an opportunity to ask questions at

149the end. I just want to remind the board that this work, this study is to help us and support decision making over in the next decade. It's not driving this what we're going to do. It's just to help us with data and research to help us make decisions moving forward. We've worked really hard to be a collaborative effort. The leadership team is made up of stakeholders across the district, principles, student services is represented, CNI, we're working really hard to kind of have that body constantly in communication with each other. The highlights so far for the first 60 days is the leadership team has been has met twice. We have an ongoing chat and we we check in with each other on a regular basis. This is only ACS staff. I do want to clarify. Um

150we do have Bunkham County represented and of course the members of the firm, but they not are not part of the chat. All of the facility walkthroughs are complete. Um every nook and cranny of our district has been looked at including the uh closets. I mean it's been pretty intense. I'm very kind of shocked that that has happened already but it has. We have been able to collect a lot of data and we have shared the data with the firm. This includes all of our digital drawings, 3D models, enrollment projections, the utilization study, and all of our utility reports allowing them to go ahead and anal start the analysis process. One of uh one of our parent groups out reached out to Dr. Maggie and I and really wanted us to dig deeper in the

151capacity to look at the difference between the design and what's actually being done programmatically that was published in April of 2024. Um so I have met with at least half a little over half the principles. I got a few more schools to do and we're looking at that intimately and talking about like what what are the differences and what updates. I can happy to report that all so far every nook and cranny, every classroom is being used which we we knew um it is a little bit different for example some grade level shifts um the adding of a health center at one of our campuses but we our principles have done a really good job good job utilizing the space at their campuses um and I'll provide that update to the firm and to the

152leadership team once we have completed that um we have asked principles to keep their staff staff updated uh at their monthly faculty meetings to have it as a standing agenda item during their school improvement team just to invite the staff to have conversation. I try to almost weekly provide an update to all of district and school leadership and our already established Friday focus so that the conversation is just there. It's not going away. Um we have asked that um that when when principles get questions they don't feel comfortable like they don't know how to answer just to kind of send that to us to send that to me and I'll disseminate that through the leadership. So the first 60 days that we've done a really good job trying to build a strong foundation of the

153work and where we're going. What we're hoping what we are going to do next is we're going to start looking at the educational adequacy of each of our buildings and like where are we and where do we want to go to align with our academic growth goals as well. Our engineering assessments will start um we'll continue more of the technical reviews of our building systems and our infrastructures. Um as you know I'm talking to you about chillers at least every other month. Um we are talking about cost modeling and pri pri p price p price p price p price p price p price p price p price p price p price prize p my my brain is priority making sorry um begin by identifying our short midterm and our long-term capital goals um most of

154this has already been done the my people predecessors did a good job of kind of planning out in the future and we're constantly making adjustments as needs arise and as um as things fa falter and we have to make those adjustments all the time we know that we have to have that ability to pivot The leadership committee will continue to meet. We have standing meetings once a month. Um so we'll meet again in November and in December before I bring you another update. They'll get the they'll start to get the preliminary findings from the firm in the next two meetings. So we'll start to get a taste of what things are happening. And we're going to start with the um community engagement planning to develop a framework for listening sessions and public updates so that

155our stakeholders outside of our internal stakeholders will start to hear more about what we are finding and what we are doing. We're working hard to do more transparency and communication. Uh there is a website that is being developed. If it's not already published, it will be and that'll provide the similar updates that I'm already providing to district and school leadership. and we'll just kind of reinforcing our district's commitment to communication. Looking ahead, we hope by early 2026 that we'll receive a comprehensive summary of the findings so far, integrating all of our facility conditions, our instructional alignment and the capital priorities. These results will guide our data driven equitable master facilities plan that reflects the finding of that study and the leadership team again comprised of multiple representation of the district will bring those to the

156board in a more formal manner later in the spring. So I would like to invite the board to ask me any clarifying questions and also suggest any things you would like for us to add to the scope of work. For example, actually I'll let you ask questions first and then I'll tell you the examples that have popped up today. I will tell you that if you were in my high school math class, I would ask for an exit slip before I let you leave so that I know that you fully understood the lesson that I subdigitly provided for you. I will say that um uh I am impressed by what I'm reading and I appreciate the particularly the involvement of asking the principles to review the numbers. I think that that was missing in a

157prior study. Um, I was amused to find a legacy uh agenda item in one of the documents in um uh in uh Diligent. Um there's a little library section and um uh in the internal section is an old school board meeting minutes from uh that all the board members can click on. um that actually talks about the capacity of the William Randolph campus and it is significantly less than uh what was used in the uh recent capacity study and I just want to make sure and I'm going to be asking questions to make sure that I understand how we're figuring out these capacities and that I would be able to explain them to somebody else. So what I'm seeing is a really good uh step in the right direction. Um, I know that for early

158childhood education, purpose-built buildings are for 18 students because that's how we best um uh qualify for reimbursement. And I am and those uh um classrooms have a minimum for best reimbursement of 35 square feet of usable space which comes out to 50 square ft per child um effectively. And I'm just wondering what kinds of metrics we use to figure out how many children can be in a classroom and how many children should be in a classroom so there's not emotional stress because I don't want us to do math and be so focused on efficiency that we wind up not doing best for kids. >> That is fair. I just want to point out that we have a wide variety of buildings. Some are 100 years old, some are five years old, right? And so actually

159more than that, not 10, but anyway, the design capacity and the program capacity are two different things and they're different building to building. And then you add the third layer to the fire marshall. So please just take into account that we're trying to work with our principles and better understand how they're utilizing their space due to their unique programming at their campuses. I have a question. Um, when you can we talk about scope because I think that's what I might be getting to, but it might already be there in terms of when we start to understand how our buildings are being used and if there's space that >> could be doesn't need to be used. One of the groups that met with us mentioned that they would be in a position to talk about like

160how we might rent that space out or colllocate with other government entities as a way to support our budget. Um, and I don't know if that's something that this particular group had kind of thought about doing and if that is for later that's totally fine. But as we think about what it would take to I mean we're doing this to ensure that we're being efficient with our funding and um as a way to say if our if some of our schools have extra space, >> might there be a way to think about using it a little more creatively that helps us budgetarily and keeps that school in that community? Does that >> Okay, thank you. April, can I just um when you say that all site visits of visits across all campuses, I remember when

161this was first brought up, we wanted to make sure that 441 Haywood was a part of that. Is that include that? >> Yes. I also want to add that during that walkth through um the team interviewed the principal and whoever their designated staff was with them so that they could bring their lead custodian or um someone who'd been there 30 years who knew intimate details about the campus. Those questions were done to really to better understand that campus and those unique needs. The same was true for 441. Took a long time for 441 to be transparent. >> Sure. Yeah. No, understandable. Yeah. And they did >> and this building too. >> Awesome. Thank you. >> And for 441 um was Susanna Smith part of the walkthrough or who did you recruit for that walk through?

162>> I I need to go back and make sure I don't I'm not I want to be clear that I answered that correctly. Thank you. >> Thank you, April. We look forward to the next >> update. Thank you. >> Um, so are you ready to move on? >> Yeah, we'll just keep going. Um, what else do I have to tell you? >> And these demo, >> so I asked April's got a couple big projects that are coming up. I asked her just to include this information for the board. one being the demolition of a building on the high school campus just so you weren't like surprised like hey people are telling me they're tearing down a building so there reasonings in there why they're doing that. Um and then also um there are the two

163quotes in there that were provided for the chillers at the high school once they've selected um the winning contract that will come to the board for approval. And then 4.3 um these are just some technical change updates um coming from the fall updates um from the schoolboard association for the state and that is they're just very small technical corrections. Um I apologize it should have said information only for all of those. >> Thank you Maggie board members. Any questions about those information items? So, I'm slow, but I think everybody's good with those. What we will do next is um in a minute I will take a motion to move into close session. We will take a short break um so that folks can leave and board members take a break if they need to. Um

164we're going to come back into closed session. So I will entertain a motion for the board of education to enter into a closed session pursuant to general statute 143-318.11 for the following purposes under subsection A1 to prevent the disclosure of privileged and confidential personnel information pursuant to general statute 115 C 319 through321 and under subsection A3 to discuss matters protected by the attorney client privilege. >> Well done. >> So moved. >> Are you done? >> Second. Yeah. Okay. I could hardly hear you, but I was like, I think she's finished. >> All in favor? >> I >> We're going to take a five minute recess and we will return in close session. Thank you everyone.