001baby good evening the meeting of the the special meeting of the Monro Township Board of Education will come to order please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all that's the way it's supposed to be S Mr Gorski can we please have a roll call not supposed to have those Poes the whole Mrs kapano here Mr Chella here Mrs antelis here Mr Braverman here Mr [Music] calman Mr Klein yes Mr Larry here Mr Masters here Mr tesler here Mrs Fon here Madame board president you have a quum thank you in accord with the provisions of the New Jersey open public meetings law the Monroe Township
002Board of Education has caused notice of this meeting to be published by having the date time and place thereof posted April 13th 2012 one at all schools two the home News Tribune three cranberry press and four filed with the clerk of the municipality um at this time we're going to be having a workshop called evaluating the superintendent and we have with us this evening Miss Gwen Thorton she's the middle sex County field service representative from New Jersey school boards uh she's here to give the board members training on how to evaluate the superintendent but before we get into that I'm going to ask her if um I think it's important for the board and the public to know what the role and the responsibilities of a board member are and what is the relationship between
003the board and the superintend it and what our responsibility and obligations are to the district and the District staff so um Miss Thorton we welcome you here this evening thank you very um you can sit while Gwen is getting ready I'd like to just thank the board for honoring my request to have this training I appreciate it I know it's another night out of your evening um but I appreciate your your compliance with my request not a problem thank you thank you for having me it's a pleasure to be here um as I'm sure you know as board members your major responsibility is that of creating policy for the orderly operation of your District you are a policymaking body um you provide oversight and Direction the vision for your school district and that is primarily
004your responsibility as a board of education you say what you would like to see done and happen in your district and your superintendent is responsible for making it happen your administrators your principal supervisors directors take care of the how you say what collectively and collaboratively you are actually um a 10- member board you are a team the superintendent is in reality the 10th member of your board of education albeit without a vote and he or she is the educational leader of your District who provides you with the kinds of information data background you need to have in order to make well-informed decisions about the direction of your school district one of your primary responsibilities on an annual basis is the evaluation of the superintendent 18a calls for the evaluation of the superintendent to take place
005on an annual basis by April 30th of each calendar year and while the state gave all boards the opportunity to move the election to November they did not do any adjustment to any of the other dates around statutory requirements for Boards of education so that requirement is remaining in its current time frame now somewhere down the road perhaps the state will adjust that in light of the majority of more than 87% of boards moving to November but currently it remains in place and so you have an obligation to complete this task um by the end of each April of each calendar year it is clearly one of your most important responsibilities the Board of Education employs one person in the school district you employ the superintendent he is responsible for holding all other employees accountable
006and the board of of Education holds their superintendent accountable so providing your superintendent with a well-reasoned objective evaluation is a critical component to the success of your District at the the end of the day most like many of you who work who have evaluations you know that it is a Communications tool it is designed to ensure that the superintendent and the Board of Education stay on the same page moving forward it is another way to communicate um your goals um what you think is going well and what you perhaps would like to do perhaps slightly differently the state law requires that each evaluation of the superintendent have the following components you must have indicators of student achievement currently they are always going to be running a year behind because of the time frame in which
007we do the standardized assessments of our students with the exception perhaps of some SATs or PSATs results which might be current for this year but for the younger students particularly you're going to be using last year's uh assessments and that's true for every school district across the state in 20145 when we move move to the park assessments my hope is that because they will be technologically driven we will have formative assessments at least if not some level of summative assessments on a year round basis which will allow us to then use current indicators of student achievement rather than a preceding year it asks you to look at progress toward achievement of the district goals your board should on an annual basis be sitting down with your superintendent and members of his administrative team if he
008so chooses and developing annual goals that speak to the kinds and types of activities you wish to see accomplished in the school district over the course of a given year I think in here in Monroe you call them board goals we would call those District goals the goals that the superintendent is responsible for again you say what you want to see done with those goals but it is Dr Hamilton's responsibility for the how you as a board should be evaluating the superintendent on the progress toward the achievement of the district goals typically we would set goals in the late spring early summer have the administration take time over the summer when it's a little less busy without every bus running and every student in every building have the opportunity to develop action plans to implement
009those goals and then you would be receiving updates and monitoring the progress toward the completion of those goals goals on a monthly quarterly basis whatever your board so deems as as necessary so those are two of the components and then the law asks you to look at those areas of um performance strength and if there are any areas that you have a concern around performance Improvement so in your packet on the left hand side um I have brought you a copy of our instrument just for the sake of discussion it's in blue um we have gone to an online process to assist boards in completing this task um in a little less of an onerous way it is available uh online at our homepage www njsp.org you all would enter your username which is your
010complete email address that your business administrator has registered um with us for each of you if you don't have a password and who can remember those passwords um unless you cheat like I do and stick them on little stickies in different places in my office um you would have to that you can click on forgot password and it'll send you to an area where you can develop your own password or we will send you a password you then can enter your data um Dr Hamilton would first have to enter his goals and his assessment once that's completed you would receive an email from me and a copy of that email is in the yellow on the left hand side of your packet just so you can see what that looks like and it is automatically
011triggered once Dr Hamilton enters his goals it automatically triggers an email from me to each of the nine of you saying that the evaluation is now completed your superintendent has completed his input asking you for your assessment okay and so then you would do your portion of the assessment toward progress or achievement of District goals and then the secondary set of um indicators are around the leadership skills in the area of Personnel in the area of policy development staff and Community relationships you can certainly sit and read um this document at your leisure um if you would like to do it that way I it is completely confidential I hit a button and it automatically compiles verbatim all of your input we don't even correct misspellings so if you have them in there they come
012back that way um and I'm I'm half being funny but it does come back absolutely verbatim I can track them simply by your last name so it would say uh and tell us completed but I can't see anyone's individual input nor am I interested because we're not in the business of evaluating your superintendent we are just giving you a compilation back of the data so that as you sit as a board of education to write the summary evaluation you have um a completed form that includes all of the input from all of the board non-conflicted board members um I don't know if you have any conflicted board members but the SEC which is not the Securities Exchange Commission which is what I thought it was when I um became uh I used to teach High
013School government that's when I became a school board member I figured out that was the school ethics commission the school ethics commission has held board members who have a family member employed on a full-time basis in any capacity in the school district are conflicted out from participating in the superintendent's evaluation contract negotiations and any terms and conditions excuse me of employment for a superintendent so if you have questions about whether you are potentially conflicted out obviously your board attorney could give you a definitive answer on that but if you are conflicted out you should recuse yourself and not participate in the evaluation process either in inputting the data in sitting in any discussions around the evaluation um you are not permitted by uh law by operation of law through the school ethics Commission in participating
014in that process so I just like to point that out you may not have anyone um I have some boards that have a majority of their board members who are conflicted out in which case you would have to invoke the doct of necessity which is a legal document that lays out to your public what all of those conflicts are you post it you wait so many days and then everyone can come back in and participate in the evaluation um but that may not be a concern for you but i' like to point that out in case it is a concern once you receive the compilation back um it is the one time during the year that a board of education is allowed to meet without the superintendent being present you must send a rice notice
015to the superintendent which indicates to the superintendent that you are going to be discussing his or her performance you may then as a board come to consensus around the summi of evaluation that summi of evaluation that you draw from everyone's comments should be a majority document and I can't emphasize that enough it should reflect the will of the majority of the Board of Education if for example you're a board member that has a minority perspective or Viewpoint let's say for example a majority of the board think that the superintendent has done an outstanding job in the area of policy but you as a board member are still very concerned for example about Hib policy or another kind of policy when you meet and you're required by law to meet as a full Board of Education
016with the superintendent to discuss his or her evaluation that is where the minority voice would find expression that's your opportunity as a board member to say while I understand the majority of my fellow board members believe you've done an outstanding job let me just say I still have a concern and here's why that's important because I have never met a superintendent who did not want to meet the expectation of their board they don't always succeed but I have never met a superintendent who wasn't committed to trying to meet the needs of all of the board members so I think it's very important that if you have a particular area of concern that does not find its way into the written report because it is a minority Viewpoint that you take that opportunity at the summative
017conference to express your concern so that your superintendent is well aware of how you as an individual board member may be feeling it is a Communications tool it's not to be a gotcha so I think you can say anything that needs to be said depending upon the words you choose and the tone you take so I think it's very important to remember that it is a majority document but the rights of the minority are protected by virtue of their ability to have that discussion um when you share the summit of evaluation with your superintendent so when I return the compilation I generally return it to the board President we will not email it because once I have compiled all of your individual input it becomes a Personnel document I deliver it in hard copy to
018the board president or to your board secretary for your board president in a sealed envelope it is a confidential process and I can't stress enough to you the importance of maintaining that level of confidentiality because it is a Personnel matter your superintendent of course always as with any certificated employee in your district has the right to ask that the discussion take place in open public session if he or she would choose typically that does not happen so the board meets in close session with the superintendent to um review the sum evaluation once you have written it the superintendent signs it and dates it as acknowledgement of receipt the board president signs it and dates it um a copy should be kept by your board attorney on behalf of the board so that the board always
019has a copy available to them should they need it and of course your superintendent gets a copy for his or her personnel file as with all certificated employees in your school district your superintendent has 10 days days in which he can attach to an evaluation any kind of information that he or she believes would clarify elucidate amplify the evaluation it could be test scores it could be something additional an explanation to something um the board doesn't get to say yes or no to that attachment and it's the same for all of your teachers your supervisors your principles Vice principles all certificated staff's evaluation include that same component piece where they have 10 days in which to attach to their evaluation anything they believe would further clarify the evaluation um the board doesn't again get to
020say yes or no but you should be made aware if there is something that is attached and you should have the opportunity to read whatever that attachment is so that you are aware of it moving forward once you have done that the evaluation is actually completed so um it's it's not a difficult process but it is a very important one and one that needs to be done very thoughtfully keep in mind that when you evaluating your superintendent you evaluating an entire Year's performance you are not just looking at what stayed in the budget or what came out of the budget you were not looking at wow this is what I thought we should do with staff at at 10-e renewal time um or the anticipation of that and we didn't do it you're looking at
021their entire scope of progress toward achievement of District goals as well as the progress of the district overall and the leadership skills over an entire year so you want to make sure that as you're reflecting on that very often um many superintendant will provide to their Boards of Education a self assessment or a summary or to take the updates that you've been giving perhaps over the course of the year on progress toward District goals and include that in the board's packet ahead of doing the evaluation I don't know about all of you I have trouble with last week much less last you know August and last July and last June and sometimes we can forget all of the kinds of things that have been accomplished between your personal lives and your professional lives and then
022all your Schoolboard work sometimes it's very difficult to recall all of those things so very often a superintendent prior to your doing this will include for the board you know just sort of a recap of the Year hitting the highlights and and you certainly don't have to write a separate report you can take your updates just put them all together put them in the board packet and that's one way to just sort of help all of you as you're thinking about the evaluation um to do it effectively the other thing that I think it's very important for your board of education to consider um no matter what evaluation tool you're using whether you're using ours or whether you have a different one in your District is to really have a board discussion around the categories
023um not so much for the district goals but if you look at the categories on the leadership skills it is broken into five categories commendable meets expectations needs Improvement unsatisfactory and not observed not observed is there particularly sometimes for new board members um who may just not have been through an entire board cycle who may have gotten appointed midye or perhaps you weren't negotiating so you didn't get to see that process take place over the course of a whole year um if you haven't seen something and you don't know it you should check no not observed because it's neither an affirmation it's neither positive nor negative it simply is what is I haven't observed it I can't comment on it um but I think it's important to talk about what is commendable I had a
024board memb say to me one time I would never rate anyone commendable I said oh for heaven's sakes why not and and they said because if you're commandable you can never get better I said okay and that's a fair assessment that's someone's interpretation of that particular word but I think it's important for you as a board to have a discussion around what does commendable mean what does meets expectation mean what does needs Improvement mean there are some people who would say well meeting expectation is like getting a c i I don't see it that way but someone might see it that way so I think it's important to have that discussion as a board so you are all on the sort of the same page as you go about filling out your forms that you've
025talked about what does commendable mean commendable to me means you did an outstanding job and that doesn't imply to me that you couldn't do a more commendable job next year but that's my interpretation of that word and everyone has a slightly different interpretation of those words so I think it's very useful um to have a discussion around what those terms mean here's the other piece that I think is very important I know that this can be slightly time consuming to do it but it is very important because it goes it's part of your P the superintendent's personnel file if you're going to say that someone has done a commendable job it is a much better evaluation if you take the time to comment on why that is or if you're going to say that someone
026needs Improvement then you need to cite the reasons why give some specifics around why you have identified that particular area is as in need of improvement again I've never met a superintendent who did not want to meet the expectations of the board so if you're going to say that someone needs Improvement then you need to say why I I would want to know why someone thought if I weren't fulfilling all of the responsibilities of my profession in my occupation that's fine tell me why so that I know how to correct it so I know what to do to do better um and if you're going to give someone a commendable you know skills are transferable so if you say you are commendable in this particular area and here's why and there's another area that perhaps
027is not as strong it gives your superintendent then the ability to be able to say well I was doing really well in this area and commendable perhaps I could take some of the the kinds of things I did here and do them over here because skills are hopefully transferable we're all about being lifelong Learners um and continually improving we have that expectation for our students we have that expectation for our staff clearly we should have that expectation for ourselves as board members in what it is that we do um in our responsibilities so that's what this format looks like I've also included for you in the back on the left hand side two samples of sumita of evaluation documents one is in buff because we kill trees in color in my office and one is
028also in yellow um this is just to give you an idea of the kinds of ways that you could write up the summative and if we start with the left hand the left uh the yellow colored sheet which was in my left hand you can see that it's pretty much an outline form you attach the indicators of pupil progress you write the goals then the board's assessment of those goals areas of superintendent strength and executive skills and then areas of professional growth or where you would like to see the superintendent perhaps do some professional development if there aren't any you don't have to make them up that's supposed to be funny guys I had a board member asked me that once do I have to make them up I said no if someone's doing an
029outstanding job that's just fine um but that's how you would write it and then you could simply sign it and date it but this is just meant to give you sort of a format um here is the same kind of report in a narrative form it's just a different way of conveying the same kind of information and there's no requirement in law that you do it in a specific way so you have flexibility I had one board that used to do it in I Amic panamer and I'm not making it up in Camden County they would write a poem is there some ATIV though they had a poet on the board and that's how they would do it was very creative actually year over-year um I've also included for you a copy um of the
030board self- evaluation um the board self- evaluation for a very short period in time found expression in CAC as a requiring of the governance DPR with the streamlined operation where they have now changed the dprs yet again um it is no longer found in the governance DPR it is however found in the annual statement of assurance which is like the old ASA report if the longer you're around the longer things come back if you just stick around we give them a new acronym but they're back so under the statement of assurance the self- evaluation is still there um once you hold hold the superintendent accountable for his or her performance by doing your own self-evaluation looking at your governance operation your processes and procedures it's a way of holding yourselves accountable what did we do
031well over the course of the year are there any areas where we as a board might want to do some additional training or professional development um how can we do better as a team um many boards will have their superintendent and their board secretary participate in the self- evaluation um and you do it the same way your username is your full email address it's available online um this I can email back to you because it's not confidential um additionally I can bring it back to you so that you would have it in time and use it perhaps when you do your goal setting for the following school year okay questions because I'm doing a lot of talking that you have around this process do any of the board members have any questions are they this
032yes [Music] sir you mentioned earlier that conflicted board members cannot be involved with the formal uh evaluation the written evaluation but they can participate in the they may not participate in any part of the superintendent's evaluation does the board have to do an online evaluation or can they decide to do it inh house you may do it however you would like and are most comfortable um some boards will do it in-house you don't have to do it online um we went to we used to compile the results by hand board members would complete it by hand we would take them in we would compile them it was very timec consuming it was slow in getting them back to boards because of the time frame um this allows us to help you in a more expeditious
033fashion but you may use whatever instrument um you have mutually agreed upon I'm sure that Dr Hamilton has language in your contract that says that the superintendent and Board of Education will agree to an evaluation instrument this particular one we worked with njasa on developing um School boards in collaboration with the superintendent Association develop this evaluation format um as a way of helping Boards of education and superintendents to sort of standardize the process but you may certainly use whatever process you are most comfortable with is there any other questions from board members Dr Hamil oh Mr Mr BR at the conclusion after all of the uh written evaluations are done does the president of the board put them all together and consolidate them um typically um once I deliver the compilation either the Personnel committee
034if you have one or the board officers uh will take that compilation write a draft summative evaluation you may meet that's the one time you may meet without the superintendent to review the summative evaluation come to consensus as a board that you're comfortable with that document once that happens and the board is comfortable that document then gets shared ahead of time with Dr Hamilton and then the full board you're required by law and it says the full majority of the Board of Education must meet with the superintendent to review and discuss the summative evaluation um that's a requirement of the law okay in in the past um numerical evaluations were uh numerical numbers were given to each of these uh items such as commendable mean five and the expect meeting expectations four Etc and and
035in the end the I guess the president of the board used to put it all together and come out with an average is that recommended um I I don't tend to favor averages because you lose the top and you lose the bottom I think it is more definitive to say um five board members marked this area commendable four said this meets expectations because again it it is designed to communicate as much information as you can um and an average you you lose something and I think we help communicate more effectively when we're more direct and there's more information rather than less averages are fine if that's what you want to do there's no prohibition against it but I don't recommend it because I think in an average again you know you lose the top and
036you lose the bottom and again I will go back to as an effective communication tool you want to be conveying as much information as you possibly can um I get very distressed sometimes when I deliver compilations and you know there are things that say commendable or things that say meets impr needs Improvement and there's no explanation around it so it's not helpful to the person reading it if they haven't if you haven't taking the time to to share what it is you're concerned about or what it is you think is going wonderfully well and you're very excited about um I think the more you can convey information in this document the more useful the process will be um it it's not connected to um Merit goals so there's no amount of dollar attached to it
037um there are some contracts now in the state with the new superintendent salary caps as you may be aware where superintendents are allowed to have three um quantitative and too qualitative up to that many goals um in a contract per year and and there you may want to look at averages okay where you're talking about that but that's not the case here at this particular point in time so I don't think that there is a reason to do those kind of averages but again that's a board decision not not a not a New Jersey school boards Association decision we're here to help you through the process to answer questions um to do what we can to make it as useful as possible for you at at the conclusion of of the evaluation process should the
038Board of Education make specific recommendations to the superintendent for the coming year if there are areas that you want to see the superintendent do some additional professional development um to further hone his skills in a particular area um that is perfectly appropriate for the board to do but keep in mind the board speaks with one voice it should reflect the will of the majority of the board not what nine or five or four different individual board members think but what the full Board of Education thinks just the same way that the superintendent only takes direction from the full Board of Education not from nine different board members but yes that would be appropriate this is your opportunity to have that Frank open discussion that says we think you're doing great we're Delight Ed with this
039but there may be some you know if you were considering you've done it you built this building but perhaps if you were considering I won't say building another building but if you were in that position and you had a superintendent perhaps that did not have a great deal of experience in construction or referenda one of the things you might suggest in for the following year if you knew that was coming is that might be an area where you would like the superintendent to do some ongoing professional development if that something that you were considering or contemplating you're not obviously you've just opened this fabulous building but that would be the kind of thing that you would find and and write in an evaluation for example for the following year specifically is there a recommendation of
040how to report this the outcomes to the to the public you don't it is a private confidential document I understand that but the public is interested obviously maybe not a lot of people but there are a number of people in the community that would like to know well did he get a great rating or is he just hanging on the board of education does not have the ability to communicate that information uh it is a person Personnel document all Personnel have certain rights that you can that you can't violate as a board of education the code of ethics requires you to support and to protect all School Personnel in the proper performance of their duties and to comply with all federal and state laws around confidentiality in matters of personnel and student discipline issues student
041Behavior the same kinds of pieces apply and while it is unfortunate the public on the other hand has elected all of you to represent their interests and the interests primarily I would tell you from my perspective of what is best for every child in Monroe Township and Jamesburg um that come up here for the high school so um the public is going to certainly you can speak to the public that you have completed the process um in a timely fashion and it has been completed but you may not share um the contents of that document in any fashion the superintendent if he or she chose to do so that would be different they have that opportunity but you as a board do not I just have a quick question how about with the the self
042evaluation or the uh creation of board goals is is that something that that could and should be open to the public absolutely most goal setting meetings are held in open public self-evaluation report outs are done in open public if I came in and talked about it with you it would be done in an open public meeting but because the superintendent is an employee of the district there are certain um legal requirements around that process that are different from the board Mr Klein samples that you're giving us here the superintendent evaluation these are just samples yes they're just blank forms in other words we can use this and we could add I can't add you'd have to use you could absolutely if you so chose to do that I couldn't compile it okay then if um
043if the board chooses or I don't know if it's up to the uh president to have this sent to your office to do the if you add or change this document in any way I would be unable to compile it electronically okay so we're better doing it ourselves yep as we've done in the past that will be a discussion we'll have yeah okay no I it's it is a limitation I understand that okay thank you oh you're welcome you're welcome anyone else um I know that um this is already April 23rd we probably won't have this evaluation completed by the 30th um Dr Hamilton had said he would be willing to give the board a letter that would extend the date that would be okay as far as I know it's very generous thank you
044Dr Hamilton do you have any questions no I don't actually um there a couple of things you shared tonight that I wasn't I didn't know actually so you too I'm I'm glad glad you you came my pleasure um Mr tesler just one question I guess we're going to have a discussion as a board on how we're going to file it whether we going do electronically and or on paper that will be a separate discussion um can we do that tonight after miss thort or we could do that Wednesday I would also point out if if it's um the portion of the leadership skills that you want to append and extend or amend and not the goals you could simply in put the goals and we could compile the goal section for you if that would
045be helpful in other words you don't have to use the form in its entirety if you have your own individual District form for that um but I would again just say to you that that by contract the superintendent and the board have to come to consensus around whatever form you agree to use words once a form is developed then our President and Vice President would go over it with Dr Hamilton for his approval on what we're going to use for evaluation correct that's fine anyone else okay I think that would conclude our training thank you very much if you have any questions don't hesitate to call um we are here to assist in whatever way we can thank you I think it might be a good idea too for the board to take this home
046and digest it and then have the conversation about what we would like to do on Wednesday the next board meeting and with the proposed extension that gives us a little Breathing Room rather than having that come a date that would be conducive to all of us than okay um at this time we will go to number six on the agenda public forum anyone from the public we in to speak please come to the microphone and state your name and address for the record not Stein 15 Nathaniel Street um just a couple questions I think most of these board members at one point if maybe all of you have evaluated uh superintendents are there new requirements that forced us to uh have this Workshop or is this um that we've just been not doing it correctly
047no I don't think it's been either I think some of these board members are new within the last two to three years and have not had any training on how to evaluate the superintendent so it was decided and Dr Hamilton asked if if that would just be um good for us to have this conversation so that we're all on the same page when we decide to do an evaluation and the new newer board members and the older board members who haven't had training in a in a while get to hear the same thing one of the comments that I noed I believe Mr Braverman asked the question uh regarding conflicted employees participating in the evaluation process um is that something that's happened in the past or is this a new requirement because I no it's
048been in the past if you have a a um a family member who works full-time they cannot participate in the superintendent evaluation right and we've been aware of that and we've not allowed that is that correct that's correct um I think Miss Thorton also mentioned that some new contracts for superintendents have actually some quantitative type of goals in there I understand that the um evaluation is confidential because it's a Personnel issue but if there are quantitative goals in the uh supervisor in the superintendent's contract I think it would be important that the public knows those quantitative goals were actually being met and the only way to really do that is by letting us know the uh if the evaluation uh showed that those quantitative goals were met um how does the board respond to that
049I know that there that's not the issue right now but at some point you may have quantitative goals in your contract in the future my current contract was developed prior to that provision being made available to boards and superintendents so there are no quantitative goals in my current contract uh when this contract expires should the board decide to revisit that I would have no problem with sharing those goals frankly I think that would be a good idea excellent congrats what I was hoping to hear doctor thank you anyone else from the [Music] public Robert roach J te Newfield Boulevard um it was mentioned about the goals so I I assume there was goals for fiscal year ending uh June 30th of this year uh who's the custodian of those goals the superintendent has a copy
050of the goals and each board member has a copy of the goals we wanted to get them where would we get a copy it's on it's actually posted online under uh action board uh superintendent action plan on the website yes sir superintendent action plan yes thank you very much anyone else from the public seeing none um we will have a oh I'm sorry Mr L it's nice to have you back I hope you're feeling better it's a pleasure being back um the the point I'd like to make is that we've had some very significant changes in the legal environment for the uh whole education process for example the harassment intimidation and bullying action has made a dramatic change in the whole Administration process it consumes a fair piece of uh Dr Hamilton's time and all
051the administrators and so uh it's important that we stay current and we understand and the legal environment and many other aspects of the whole education process anyone else okay um a motion to adjourn I'll make that motion second second Mr Klein and second by Miss an Tellis all in favor I opposed you oppose Mr Mr he opposes abstentions the motion to adjourn is passed