MCPS Joint Budget Work Session 02/24/2026

001Good evening. I'd like to call to order the Tuesday, February 24th, 2026 Matthews County School Board and Board of Supervisors joint budget work session. Would everyone please rise for the pledge of allegiance? I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Item 1.3. We'll go ahead and do the roll call of the school board first. Miss >> Laauo. here. >> Mr. Morgan >> here. >> Present. >> Mr. Batty >> here. >> Miss Phillips >> here. >> Mr. Walsh >> here. >> Mr. Doss >> here. >> Mr. Bowen >> here. >> Moving on to item two. Dr. Daniel, our superintendent, will provide a brief review of the 2026 2027 draft of the Matthews

002County Public Schools operating budget. So, this may be a slight uh repeat for those um board members who attended the the public hearing. Um but I'll go through some of the um some of the information that I covered. So, um we'll start with um demographics a little bit. So, I think I touched on this at a previous meeting coming to the supervisors, but currently Matthews County Public Schools serves about 783 students in grades preK3 through 12th grade. That enrollment, okay, that's the number of kids who are walking into our school every day. That number differs from what the ADM or average daily membership is. Our ADM for last year um was we ended the year at 743.45 students. So that's the final number that state funding for basic aid goes through for last year. Okay.

003This year we're running probably 738ish um right now. So the difference between ADM and enrollment has to do with grade level. We don't get um SOQ funding for preschool students. So preschool students don't count towards ADM. Students who are in some type of regional program, whether that's Ches Bay Governor School, regional CTE programs, regional alternative schools, regional special education programs, those students are fractionally reduced towards our ADM. So that's why that ADM number is smaller than our overall enrollment. We're still serving those kids, but sometimes some of those kids may be half days or whatever or they're just not part of funding. Another caveat that I didn't mention before is if we have a student who um enrolls in kindergarten a couple days early, meaning they haven't quite turned five, they're four and 360 days

004um and their parents want them to enroll early. we don't get SOQ funding for that child either, even though they're in kindergarten. So, that's a kind of a weird little sort of caveat um to the rule. So, all those things get factored out um and calculated. We have currently 157 full-time and 26 part-time employees. Um 21% of our students qualify for special education. That's a high number. Um so, we have um a population the 21 those 21% of our students require additional services, additional supports, accommodations. Um, and the needs vary based on the student. Um, but we may have to hire additional staff members to work one-on-one with some of our special needs. So, they may need um special transportation services. Um, an additional 8% of students qualify for a 504 plan. that is in

005I guess in layman's terms similar to an IEP um but often requires additional supports and accommodations for students. 43% of our students are um direct certified for um services. So direct certified being um receiving some sort of government financial assistance, TANF, um SNAP, some of those things. So that reporting then comes into the school division and those students under different circumstances would be automatically qualified for free lunch. Matthews um participates in C, the community eligibility provision. So all of our students are free breakfast and free lunch and that's based on a formula the federal government uses in part to our direct certified numbers. um that's and it came up earlier. C is a three-year um cycle. So, we're at the coming to the end of year three. So, we'll re-evaluate the um financial benefits of

006remaining in C. Um and we'll see like because there's different reimbursement rates for direct certified students versus nondirectcertified students, etc., etc. Um 3% of our students are English language learners. um meaning that they're um based on an assessment provision that when they're when they're coming in um they need additional English language um support and that timeline to get them um proficient and taking our state assessments is crazy fast. Um so that's that's changed over the years. It used to be you had three four years. Um now it's measured in months um that we have to get students like if you come here like in a in a tested grade um you have a matter of months. I think it's 12 12 to 16 months. Um but it's it's a rapid turnaround to um have those

007students in theory proficient to take a state assessment in a different language. Um just sort of a frame of reference to last year our food service department served 193,245 meals um to kids with a fairly similar enrollment last year. Okay. So a little bit and I won't try again try not to belabor a bunch on the the first draft highlights. So what what we presented talked about in February was a first draft. It was kind of everybody talking about what we need. This is kind of the wish list. There was somewhat of a what we thought may be a reasonable wish list. Um but what some of the the holding points for that first draft was based on an ADM of 725 students. So the first question is well if you think your ADM is

008around 740 why are you basing your budget on 725? Historically, when we go back and look over the last 15 or so years, we've lost about 20 to 25 students annually. Um, and even when I go back the last three to four years, we've had significant enrollment cliffs that have occurred. So, I think I shared with you all one of the slides when I presented most recently at the board of supervisors. It had um that year's projected ADM and then that year's actual ADM. And so you saw some years, I think one year was like 80 students. That's a massive revenue hit for us. So what we were trying to do both this year and for next year is project a little bit lower, anticipating if we are going to continue to decline in enrollment,

009we're not going to have a massive revenue cliff in state funding. Um so I think our projection for this year of 725 is going to hold pretty well. Um so we're again thinking 725 again for next year seems to be a pretty reasonable um projection. The first draft included a 2% plus a step. So within our salary scale so each year of service each step is 1% and then it's increasing each one of those steps up 2%. So that would equate to about a 3% pay increase um for um all staff except for teacher assistance. On that scale, we are proposing um a 6% increase for teacher assistance. Um in terms of our employee groups, um they are probably the most is put upon them and they are the least compensated, the lowest compensated employee

010groups. um they're probably um right at minimum wage. Um so trying to be able and we've had we have a lot of turnover historically within our teacher assistance. So um attempting to compensate better for better retention, better services for our students. Also our TAs, a big chunk of what they do is work with our special needs students. Those students with IEPs and 504s is a lot of what our teacher assistants um do. So consistency with that employee employee group is going to make our division better. Um the first draft included an overall 10% we were budgeting for an overall 10% increase for our health insurance. This plan had between five and 15% of that new cost passed on to employees. So we offer an Anthem plan and a centa plan. So there are two different

011Anthem versions and then there is one centa version. So the rates for Anthem would be consistent. So we would apply one percentage for those who subscribe to Anthem, a different percentage for those who subscribe to the Centa plan. Um we should get those health insurance projections back. I think we've got a meeting in two weeks, March 9th. Um, so we meet with our um the insurance broker to get an idea of what that is. Um, I think our Centa plan is is is going to be above well above that 10% increase. Last year, for example, the Centa plan I think went up 20 a little over 22%. I think we're in that in that ballpark again this year for that plan. All right. Um, so we'll know that we'll know that soon. Um the school

012resource officer grant match is included in that was included in that first draft. It also included athletic trainer position. It replaces a CTE position who is kind of um that person is moving into a different role. Um but we wanted to then backfill that CTE position instead of absorbing um that position. The role that that teacher is moving into that person retired. And so we're not adding, this isn't adding a CTE position to the budget. It's making sure that we fill it. Um, and this assumes a state funding kind of ratio to local funding 33% to local funding of 66%. We were assuming that in operating funds um and having more conversation with um the county and county representatives, they're looking at um some overall the overall funding picture. All right. So, second draft. So,

013I'll drop down to um item number six. So, the second draft is based on level funding from the county. So, that's that at a $9.1 million funding level. Draft one was about a 9.4 um funding um amount from the county. So this second draft is based on 9.1 which is what was allocated to the school division um for this current school year. So in order to get from the 9.4 down to the 9.1 it's still based on 725 ADM um the increase goes down basically from 3% down to 2%. This still keeps the 6% for teacher assistance. um it still assumes the same um health insurance piece. It removes um it keeps the school resource officer grant match kind of on our budget which we can talk about the the rationale for doing that or

014not doing that. Um but it does remove an athletic trainer position which was a new position in the first draft. that removes that athletic trainer position um from the budget and again includes level funding from the county. So, I'll let Miss Hunley talk a little bit about four funds and kind of walking through the numbers and looking at some of the historical um pieces to ask questions I think as they arise. Um there are a bunch of slides in the presentation. I don't plan on going through all of those slides. They're there if I need to reference something or if there is a specific question then I can easily go to that slide, pull it up, answer the question instead of me having to share with Mr. Anthony to then post it up and do

015all the things. So, >> okay. Um, our sorry I'm losing my voice but I'll try my best. Um, the budget uh is comprised of four funds. Uh fund one is operating, fund two is our food service, fund three is textbook and fund four is Matthews community. This slide is a breakdown of the revenue for the total budget and it's broken down by the funds. So as you see for operating funds which also includes thrifty spot which we have dissolved in fiscal year 26. Um so as far as our operating fund has went down 320, compared to fiscal year 26 to 27. Um and down for food service. It's up for a textbook fund. Um and the community fund is level and overall the total budget was decreased by $296,413.35. >> Question operating fund. Like you

016said, you're showing a $320,000 reduction. What did what made up that 320? >> All right, I will bring this is the next slide. Um it's it's going to come up. >> Oh, the next one. >> Yeah, in the couple it's I'mma break it down by fund. Um so this slide right here is um the revenue. This is just the revenue as far as for uh the breakdown for different types of funds. So you have your local which is the county um funding as you can see for the different years from fiscal year 25 is the actual fiscal year 26 budgeted and fiscical year 27 proposed. It's a percentage based on for each different level of um funding for compared to the total budget for each year for this slide. Now, this is where we break

017it down as far as for each fund. So, for operating fund um as far as for the revenue side, you have your local which increased by 53,668 and this is all revenue. your state funding decreased by $364,53182. Federal funding uh decreased by $9,7640. As you see, um the local operating is flat and overall is a difference of $320,62822. >> I have another question for you. If you want me to wait till the end or I can ask you when they pop into my head. >> It's fine. Okay. So, you have here for federal funding 596465 and I'd have to go back and look, but I thought on a presentation that you Dr. N, you all gave. >> Yes, I can explain that when I was the one before >> the 721. >> What happened was

018I went back and looked at the what was actually coded to federal funding which was -ate and Medicaid reimbursements and they are actually other local instead of federal. So that's why the local increased this to 53,000 and the federal reduced. I just moved the funding. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And as far as the expenditures, the breakdown for instruction overall difference of 400,000 sorry 3,57572 and going down um as you see um Administration attendance health went up 51 approximately. Pupil transportation went up 27 approximately. Operation and maintenance went up 24 approximately. The transfers which includes textbooks and a transfer to food service went up 60,000 and technology reduced by approximately 81,000. And that's the difference of the three20,62822. >> So what made up the I'm sorry. >> Go ahead. You're probably going to What made

019up the instruction reduction >> that was um a combination of stuff? Um it was it's hard to it's like the we took out the the athletic trainer. Um we reduced um there's the two positions that were reduced from St. Clair Walker that was out of there. Um there was >> there were Yeah, two positions once. >> Yeah. So, close closing the middle school. So, you got some staffing positions from closing the middle school. I think removing the athletic trainer >> Yeah. >> is another position. >> And then it was just >> real quick just to get my brain straight. You're doing this on budget proposal one, right? Because it's flat funding. >> Is that two? >> So, this is this is the second proposal. So, yeah, we've I think we're assuming that we're not getting

0209.4. Yeah. Um, so just based on conversations and it's I mean I think that's that money isn't there. So I'm not I'm not casting blame or anything along those lines. So this is then this is for us to looking at 9.1 funding with level funding and what what that looks like um in reference to previous years current this year and then FY25 and then we can talk there's another slide kind of at the end. Okay. If we've this is then the things we start thinking of or having to look at that comes next. >> Yeah. And it was just a multip multiple lines that we went in and just reduced just based on you know um looking at what was budgeted and what was >> 5,000 here 10,000 >> just to get down I mean

021it was like a nickel and dime kind of thing to get us down to the 9.1 pretty much >> on the um admin attendance health services. Mhm. >> Um that looks like it's up about four to 5%. >> What's that? Because didn't you an admin? Didn't you lose one admin person at least? >> That admin person was actually in instruction because admin as far as for the schools is in instruction. >> Oh, so okay. So what's in that? that is b that's basically is my salary and benefits and also um a combination of things that went up as far as for purchase services the um pupil transportation you know here we are trans and I know this number of roads probably are still the same but that is a tough one when I look at

022how many kids are are not riding the buses. >> I think part of why they're not riding the buses is the length of the bus ride itself. Um so as we were going through the um going through this budget process, I reached out to Mr. Royals to say, "Okay, we have 15 regular bus routes. What would it look like to go to 14 or to 13? Should we have a retirement or should I need to just reduce a route?" Um my understanding is there are no overlaps in our bus routes. So it's if you think of almost like a spiderweb or kind of a concentric circle like everything is just going out from one hub. So because of the geography you're basically going down a neck and then coming back out and going down U-turn

023and coming back out. Um our longest bus route is about an hour and a half bus ride rather. So the first person on then you know and then dropping off at the school or vice versa. So a lot of our families in instead of that are going to figure out a way to car poolool or drop their kids off in the mornings and things along. So that then relates to you >> buses buses are going to look somewhat somewhat emptier. >> But that's that's not a full bus be an hour and a half. >> No, I mean because just the population density isn't there. Um, so you're, you know, you're driving from stop to stop to stop and you're covering miles. You're not able to pick up 40 kids within, you know, two or three

024miles. You're driving miles and miles to to pick up kids. >> Is that one way or is that >> So, it's the first kid who, let's say you get picked up in the morning, like you're the first kid who gets picked up first thing in the morning from that pickup until you get dropped off at school. The longest one is an hour and a half. >> I guess I'm I'm just surprised because I don't know how many children are on a bus if it's 10. >> I don't know that I have a good grasp of the actual daily bus riders. >> That's what I'm saying to be an hour and a half. I guess the stopping and then the going to the next one and stop. I just didn't >> or you got to turn

025around. You get to the end of the the neck or whatever. You've got to turn around, come back out. And >> is it unreasonable to ask if we could have like centralized pickup if kids could make it a half a mile from their house. >> I mean, in reality, we're not legally bound to offer transportation. >> Yeah. >> Um, but the hurdle, you're probably going to get a higher compliance in the morning, but when you're dropping off at 3 in the afternoon, needing somebody there, especially for younger students, to meet at each stop. So we typically for elementary students or younger students won't let them off the bus unless there's an adult there. >> So then you're kind of having these congregation points. I think as I'm thinking through your question >> having to have

026enough almost you almost need like a park and ride. >> Um so you thinking through where those stops would be to pick up and how many of those spots across the county are are available. I just I don't know. Is that like the primary demographic like grade five and below for kids that are riding the bus or >> No, we have high school students that ride the bus. >> You you know there was a time where you couldn't wait to get your license and you drive yourself to school and and get off the bus as quickly as you can. That's that's not really the the thing anymore. >> Okay. >> But I'm just wondering if there was a more centralized pickup. It seems to me that um the challenge might be that the get them

027there, then that will affect impact the students coming to school, which is another measurement that the federal government has as far as >> absentee absenteeism. >> So, trying to balance all of those pieces out is is huge challenge. >> Mr. >> Yeah. Um, a couple of you uh, board of supervisors members were questioning the number of students on each bus. And I know it's it's odd. If you were to stand at the at any any of the schools and watch them load and unload, you would see some buses that are almost full and others that have very few children, very few students. Um, I substituted a little bit when I was teaching. I was kind of a last resort. They don't like for teachers to drive buses. But when Clyde came around and said, "I

028either got to have somebody either a teacher or I got to leave the bus sitting where it is," then they let me drive. But at any rate, um the longest the fullest, if that's a word, bus that I can recall was one that goes up from in the afternoon goes up from the schools of 198 left on Route Three, Windsor Road. And this first stop was right there at the beginning of Windsor Road. Multiple stops on that road. Um through the 14, take a left, couple of stops right there before the North River north end bridge and then there was one stop at the end of Booker's Lane and I was empty. So that was a very very short run and probably one of the uh highest number of students on any buses. There's another

029run that runs covers all the way from moon down in Fitch Warf all the way into the Glee. That's a long run and the bus is not full. So I'll have to give uh Mr. Royals credit. He's done, I think, an incredible job with trying to split these runs up so that they are well, probably maybe could be more efficient, but in recent years, we've had one or two drivers retire and they've not been replaced if I recall. >> Yeah. So, we've been on 15 routes since I've been here, but I think the previous two years went from 17 to 16 and then >> 15 for the last little bit. It it's a tough you know Matthews County it's it running buses in Matthews is tough. Um Mr. Walsh you mentioned possibility of having a

030central pickup. I remember way back when I was in high school it was in the 70s and we had a gas shortage and buses could not stop. I think this was state law I believe that school buses could not stop closer than quarter mile maybe apart. So if you had three houses in a row, they all had all the kids had to meet at one driveway, >> right? >> I don't know the answer. I don't have the answer for you. If if you started doing that again, I think parents would just say, "Well, my kid's not going to ride." There's some safety concerns about, you know, when you get off at that stop, how far >> walking along the side of the road. And so, >> yep. >> Dr. Daniel, >> you had mentioned one

031time before 15 buses in Matthews, but your experience at West Point, what was that, five or six? >> Yeah. So, when I was like, I think we had five buses in West Point. Again, you're looking at six square miles roughly for the town of West Point. Um, so you know, their their transportation budget, I think, was is a third of what >> um ours is. Um, but you're covering a lot less square miles. Um, fewer buses, fewer drivers. Um, and because of that small size, they also subbed out all of the the bus maintenance um to a local a local business. >> And I think their longest route was >> 20 minutes or 25 minutes. It would seem to me that I don't think it happened this year, but they've got to be other small

032school rural school divisions that have a similar problem. We do. It's a, you know, pretty heavy amount of money to spend for 740 kids. Uh, and I don't I wonder how other divisions have tackled it or if they have better. >> Yeah, we can do I mean, I've asked around a little bit to try to get um I asked about that and then food service in comparing like how do we I you know what are we doing different than other localities or what's the um other places kind of secret sauce um so we can um go back out and continue to go back out and look for other ideas or other solutions. I know transportation we use a software system to program routes and try to find efficiencies um >> so we all know we

033have these necks that we have to go down and come back just um if you could contract someone to do smaller runs or whatever. >> I think a lot of times in northern northern states like the school divisions contract out busing kind of um >> and so that's a whole different entity. I think I think the city of Hampton has a has a hybrid where they have um city transportation and school transportation for students. We'd probably be better off paying parents to bring their kids to school. >> Well, if someone >> look at if you're within so many square miles, we don't provide transportation, too. I mean, again, there's not But again, it's also, well, if I'm going to have to drive my kid, I might as well I can do I want to drive

034them here or do I want to drive them someplace else, too? >> So, it's thinking about services provided. As someone mentioned, we're not legally bound to provide buses, but I fear that if we don't provide transportation, kids aren't going to come to school. >> Are there any other localities that stop busing? Do we have any hard data? Does that happen? >> I'm not aware of anything. >> No, I'm not aware of any data. I just I guess that's just >> wonder I think other states will say if you're within or other you know independent school divisions in other states we'll say we don't provide transportation if you're within two miles of whatever school or something along those lines and kids are walking to school and stuff along those lines. So >> Miss Bohan Stewart >>

035I have a comment about technology if we're you said all we need to say about >> Could I say one more? Yeah, you can go ahead because Yeah, continue that because I want to I want to do uh >> I just divided 1.479898 by 800. That's $1,849.94 per student we spend on transportation. >> That's just a comment. >> Well, I mean the budget also includes all the athletic trips and field trips and all that stuff. Dad used to do that when he was a sub or >> school bus driver for the county. But that's a lot of money. >> Yeah. >> Paying people to get their kids here is not bad. >> It is. And I guess >> Okay. Yeah. So, um I I want to give us something to think about a little bit

036more with Chromebooks. Um uh and I have lots of experience teaching eth graders. Um, five of those years I was dealing with the Chromebooks, sometimes in the classroom, sometimes personally issued to students. And it's it's my understanding now that since 8th grade has moved to the high school, that now those eighth graders are personally issued Chromebooks, but yet they're still middle school age. So, um, you know, and Chromebooks can be great, um, and and we need them, and they can be helpful and enhance education when they're used appropriately. Um, but it really depends on the age and um, and those school districts where I've worked, I've been told middle school age when you let them take them home, middle school age students are particularly hard on the Chromebooks with replacement rates or, you know, forgetting

037them. Um, and it's it's been my experience in the classroom. Um, you know, it was better for me when I as the teacher had them on the cart. Okay, we're going to use Chromebooks. you guys go get them and we use them for this purpose. When they come in with them, they view them as theirs and it's like a distraction device. And I I'm thinking that most likely more of them get broken and have to be repaired and cost us more money when more kids take them home. Um, and I also think it can be a distraction device. Um, it was actually one of the top reasons that I quit being a public school teacher was Chromebooks. they were partially issued to middle school students in New Kent and instead of having the textbooks and

038it was a constant battle even when you have the software there you can't block all the games and it was a constant battle with that I had problems with them cheating and had to they knew how to use the software schooly better than I did and I had to learn how to prevent the cheating and because when they walk out of the room with the Chromebook oh well I'm just not going to submit that test and I'll submit it later when she you know it just gives you so much more to manage as a teacher. Sure. And if we could save a little bit of money and better I'm thinking better use the Chromebooks particularly for the younger grade levels like eighth grade. Um it's my understanding seventh grade and below they are not personally

039issued to students. Okay. But I if it's if I had trouble with eighth graders um with Chromebooks personally issued I kind of questioned would is it a good idea to issue them to ninth graders or tth graders? at some point it probably is a good idea because they probably need to be typing papers in 11th and 12th grade but and I'd love to hear from teachers on this. >> Yeah, I'd say I haven't heard um concern from high school teachers about the Chromebook deployment philosophy right now at the high school. Um we can continue to touch in with touch base with high school teachers on um on their experience. And then um I just wrote a note to check with Mr. Anthony to look repair costs recently to see where we are just um data

040on damages and things along those lines. >> Okay. >> Um I just went to um chat GBT about the school bus issue. See if there are any in Virginia >> that public schools in Virginia that do not provide transportation and there are none. Um uh and to your point, you you addressed Dr. Daniel a lot of the unique situations. It did say that um uh Charlottesville area that apparently um that if the they can't find bus drivers or the buses are filled then they don't serve the remaining students. That's kind of a curious thing. But to your point, there are no school public school divisions in Virginia that do not provide public transportation. Speaking of transportations, this is a little bit um on the CIP. Is there two buses on the one? >> I think

041we're down to one. >> I'd like to have some more discussion on then open up your second slide. Okay. Um my understanding is the 400 745 ADM is at the end of your school year, the figure that you're using, not the beginning of the school year. >> Correct. So the way um and you may help me out on this. So with the fiscal year starting in July, the state funds a school division based on the state's projection for ADM. When we submit numbers at September, the end of September, our ADM at that time is provided to the state. the state adjusts funding up or down from their projection to that September 30 projection. At the end of March, March 30, there is a second ADM data push we've got to do to the state. And

042again, funding is adjusted up or down for the remainder of that year based on that ADM. So, what we are projecting um in this is we're trying to see into March 30 of 27 for what our enrollment or ADM, excuse me, um will be at that time. And the state adjusts the the funding for the whole year. So, it's not just kind of in six month chunks. So if we are way up at our March 30 count, we we kind of get made to the good for the lost money in the earlier part of the year. And likewise, if we go down, we're cut back even more for the previous parts of of the year. If that makes sense. So if I understand your projection of 725, you said historically u you've lost 20 to

04325 students annually. Looking at your enrollment in the past, uh this is a long question. Uh can you identify what grades those students have come out out of? And >> it's Go ahead and finish. >> And looking at this year, is there is is the reduction to 725 is that just based on the 20 to 25 historically over the last se 10 years or are you looking at individual grades and thinking we're going to lose here and here? Because the preschool I think you had what 20 more students this year >> in kindergarten. >> Kindergarten. Is that included in the ADM? Your kindergarten? >> Kindergarten is included in ADM. So the um so to answer your question, it's kind of yes and no. So part of the projection is looking at the number of seniors

044who are graduating and historical some historic data related to incoming kindergarten students. So, um, so if you notice on here, our, um, this year we have 70 seniors, but we have 63 kindergarteners. Um, and again, this kindergarten group again is about 20 students more than what we've had. We've had a steady decline over the last three or four years within kindergarten. So, this um, so we had a a nice um, return of kindergarten students. We won't know if this is a trend really until probably the third week of August and every everybody has enrolled their kindergarteners because it's really without a bunch of a wide away a wide array of preschools within the community. It's it's hard for us to capture um incoming kindergarten numbers. Um so that's part of that balance. So we look

045then at um our upper grades. We tend to get some wear academy kids who come back in high school. So there's usually a little bump in ninth grade because of some changes in the Virginia High School League eligibility. That bump may start in eighth grade. Um because now for baseball like VHSL, it used to be where you start nth grade determines your eligibility. Now it's where you start eighth grade. So, I'm sorry. I may have said where you started. It used to be where you started ninth grade. Now, it will be where you start eighth grade. Um, so, and residency and all that kind of stuff. So, that's going to change some some dynamics a little bit. So, um, so there's usually a little bit of a bump when you hit the the high school.

046Um but in terms of like attrition um there historically was a little bit of attrition with um families leaving in fourth grade at the end of fourth grade and trying to avoid sort of the awkward middle school years and then coming back. Um haven't seen that as much recently. That's also part of led to a little bit of our moving fifth grade over to the elementary school um and thinking about um you know our grade configuration and school culture and things along those lines. >> So if ADM ended up 10 students higher, >> what additional income would that be? >> Is that for the state side? because um if it's for like say for fiscal year 26 if it came in at 7 let's say 735 it's an additional 217184 per student I mean it's

047very as far as for SOQ because it's based on your um the state share for SOQ >> is that two >> $2,17184 Once you slice it, >> once you slice it in half, the every student is 5,302. I'm sorry. Every student is sorry. Yeah, I'm trying to adjust. >> Yeah, trying to adjust it. I believe in one of your slides during your meeting now you have it here but uh as I recall 81% of your budget is personnel and benefits salaries and benefits How many SQ positions do you have? For some reason, I think 86. >> We're down because of declining enrollment. I think we're in the 60s now. >> 62. And again, we have 157 full-time employees. The number that you're just asking is how much money do we receive from the state per

048student? >> Yeah, have to get that. Sorry. >> But suddenly he's working through the >> C to 5,000 to 6,000. >> That's typically what I've said. is like, hey, we get about five grand per kid, five to six grand per kid. Um, but I think that's um >> I'm sorry. I was looking at the problem. >> Wasn't already calculated. I have to calculate it myself. >> It's not as simple as >> So, if you had 10 extra kids, you'd have $6,000. I mean, $60,000. The other thing that as we add students for ADM within the next bienium, our part of the reason our local composite index has continued to increase is because our enrollment has continued to decrease. And so that smaller number of students coupled with property values the same or higher then it

049that formula then spits out a higher ability to pay for schools within your locality. >> So it's actually $2,962.98. That's the state share. >> 3,000 to about >> 3,000 a student for state share. Along the same lines, how many uh tuition paying students do we have that have added >> that have added >> that we have like teacher students but ones that are saying I want my child to come to Matthews >> they're paying us >> it looks like >> 10 so we have 10 non teacher kids >> okay >> tuition students didn't think it was. >> So, I don't want to interrupt anybody. They just got several questions. Um, >> how much is your per Do you know what your per meal cost is? How much it cost per meal? >> Um, I don't

050have that right now. I mean, I can look it up, but um, you mean reimbursements or what it cost us to make a >> what it cost you to make? Two questions. How many kitchen staff do you have for the all all three schools total? How many employees in the kitchen? >> Um, as far as just for the >> full time and part >> fulltime and part time right now. >> I'm sorry. fulltime and part time. Yes. >> Right now it's 10. >> 10. So if that's that covers all three schools. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um yeah, if you could get the the meal cost to per meal cost. I think it's going to vary meal to meal. I don't think it's a set. >> It's not a set price. I mean um I I

051guess my question is what is it for? I mean, >> so the my thought process is when you know we made at the facility I was at, we made a ton of meals and we went from staff that prepared the meals to a company that came in and did the meals and we cut our cost from $4 and something the cost for you guys I think is like 513 per meal. We average everything into it with what you how many meals that you made and what you have budgeted estimated in your budgets 513 per meal. We contract and got our meals for 81 cents. 81 cents a meal that met the nutritional values for this the health department. That did not include um two of the six positions that we had because we kept those

052in the BRS. So, we did have to pay for those. So, my that's my question. I'm trying to see the difference between what your food costs are versus what your staffing >> I mean I can try to figure that out, but um as far as contracted out. I mean, there's only a certain amount. I think the state has a list of people that you can contract with for food service. Um, so as far as if we was to contract that out, um, it would be at um, whatever the state contract would be. >> Okay. Just just a thought, just just a thought. Um, so >> Mr. Doss, could you just put your microphone a little bit closer? I can't hear you. >> I apologize. I apologize. Um, when you go to when you merge the

053schools to two schools, >> are will you keep will you lose one of because right now you have elementary school, middle school, and high school. So you will you be going to just two kitchen staffs, high school and the other school being here. >> So the the kitchen staffs already operate kind of as two kitchen staffs. um what we've talked about with Miss Lindberg is to go down to um two serving lines. Um so in a sense, so on this campus, it's the same kitchen, but they sort of branch off and occupy or kind of fill two a middle school serving line and then an elementary serving line. So, we've talked with Miss Bray and Miss Lindberg on developing a bell schedule, a lunch schedule that will allow us to just have to staff um

054one serving line on this campus. And that may help us reduce um personnel costs because we don't have two people serving spaghetti at the same time, you know, >> that kind of stuff. So, yeah. So, we're looking at that way to reduce personnel costs. >> Okay. Thank you. What is the uh what's your estimated total cost for your new proposed increase in the raise? So you have a one plus a step and then six plus a step. What's the estimated cost for both those? >> So the overall salary increase between the two. Okay. >> I haven't looked at all I think a 1% I think on that one I think I gave you a one, a two, and a three kind of overall percentage. >> 135 >> as kind of like a benchmark 135. >>

055And so that's just kind of that was an attempt to give you that question typically comes up. Well, what does a 1% look like and what is a three and to kind of have a benchmark for what that looks like differentiating with a six for this group and then a two or a three for the other groups. We may have to get back to you on that one >> along that line. And you may know this was from the pay raises. So your um teacher assistance was 6%. >> So is that like 4% versus 6%. What kind of savings is that? >> I think we'd have to kind of run those run those numbers and look at the individual kind of that that pays are >> 24 that that 6% increase for teacher assistance. I

056was really happy to see that. I went through I think I went through two years worth of looking at resignations that was publicly available and made a spreadsheet and put down all the names and then I was like, "Oh, these people just started six months ago or these people just started three months ago and I think these were teacher assistants." And so when when I did that because I I felt like we had a problem with that and I wanted to see quantify like how big that problem was. And I know paying our teachers a a good wage, a competitive wage is important, but another piece for teachers which caused was another reason that caused me to leave was not having appropriate supports. And a a great teacher assistant that stays. You don't have to

057oh I get a new one. and I got explained trained this one for the first few months again. I mean I I was so fortunate when I was here um one of one of the great things about I I had a great teacher assistant. We worked together for years and she she's she was awesome. She she was so valuable >> um to me as a teacher and we didn't even have to talk. She knew what I was thinking. >> I mean, you know, and we so we were a great team because of that. But, you know, teachers need to feel supported and I think having teacher assistants that are willing to stay um you know, is is a really important piece. >> I don't disagree with you. >> I really don't. >> And we have

058some of the worst I think our pay is very very low for teacher assistants compared to neighboring districts. >> Would you derive any cost savings if instead of doing a percentage increase in a salary consider either like a retention bonus, a sign on bonus, or you going to see any cost savings in doing it that way? >> I think we're going to go round and round about salaries here. Um, just I mean, to me, that's a day-to-day operations as far as how much salary we decide to give to our staff. And I understand that you guys want that information and I can give it to you. But I mean the state for fiscal year 26 is in there caboose budget is a retention or a a bonus that's um I think it's $1,500 but it's

059a match to that. I mean everything cost. So I mean either it's going to be a raise or it's going to be a bonus. that most people would prefer to raise because I mean that helps their retirement instead of just a a bonus. Um, and just the whole state is going to be given some type of bonus or some type of retention bonus anyway. So, it's not going to benefit us by giving a bonus um in le of a salary. >> As you said, TAS is one of the areas that you have a hard time retaining people. So, is it really a matter of what they're getting paid? I don't know. >> I mean, it's part of it. I mean, I the the job itself is is difficult and taxing. Um, you're working um typically

060with our neediest students. >> Um, we're working on the training piece for our TAs to give them a little more training before um throwing them into the classroom or into the setting to improve that. Um, but it I mean it's you're basically doing a minimum wage. I mean it's we're paying them minimum wage with better benefits, >> you know. >> But I but I would also ask is or say is that bonus you're tax at a higher rate too. it was a different tax, but also um that that retirement, you know, they get probably and your mom could probably testify this her retirement probably not u where it probably should be because of her pay. And I think that is like a double whammy to um these individuals who who are so faithful and working

061with some of the most challenging situations. Um I know we have to do what we have to do financially, but I would hate to take that away from that away in addition to a lowpaying job >> on your slide about the budget highlights where you're talking about >> You might need a microphone. >> Yes, she does. >> On the page where you're talking about the budget highlights on the second draft and you're talking about the teacher assistant >> pays, it says 6% plus a step. So that's actually 7%, right? >> Okay. >> Is that correct? >> Um I think we've been we've been talking six. So, I need I'll go back and double check if that's a typo on my end. Um, we're talking about six gender seven. So, thanks for bringing that up. >>

062Okay. So, Miss Hunley's telling me that's that's my fault, not her fault. Um, so that's a typo on my part. So, I'll make that >> it'll be five plus one. Five plus. If you want to just send me that that total estimated cost, I I would appreciate that. >> I can do that for you. >> Okay. So then I've only got a couple more and then I'll let everybody else go. So um see I've got that raise total. >> So what's the average student ratio of our closed school divisions >> of other school divisions? >> I have no idea. >> I'm not sure what they're and again I would um some of that stuff is available on the um school quality profiles and so you can go on the state and look their um student

063teacher ratio. And so kind of like ADM and enrollment, you think they're kind of the same thing, but they're not. So um class size is different than student teacher ratio because student teacher ratio is going to bring in some other adults that are within the within the school itself. So um some of your elective teachers would be factored into that student teacher ratio whereas class size is looking at just a spec. So what I pulled up to for reference point is class size ratio. So that's looking at say in first grade this is the number of kids in each one of those kind of home room first grade classes. the student teacher ratio is going to be different um from that two, you know, 45 divided by two because I'm factoring in the PE teacher,

064the music teacher, the art teacher, the specialist, the whomever, the whatever to whatever. Um I think most of the places in our area are probably probably in the 10 to 10 to 12 to one kind of student teacher ratio. >> And and you're close. You're probably right on it. I checked just for West Point and because they had it on their their web page and they're 13 to1. So the reason the reason I ask is when I look at the um the number of students which estimated 725 and if I just take the SOQ positions you're at 11.69 to each student. If I take the full-time employees 157 you're down to 4.6. And if I add all 183 into it you're down to 3.1. But I think you're bringing in other other employee groups that

065wouldn't be in that that West Point or that school quality profile calculation. >> So that student teacher ratio isn't going to bring in say cafeteria folks or bus driver folks. >> So you just understand it right because I don't want to misinterpret it. So So the 13 to1 that West Point is showing does not include all of those that you're talking about. >> Correct. It's only there's a specific specific employee groups that the state recognizes for that um employee for that calculation. So I don't think it includes assistant principles, principles or counselors, but I think it does include licensed teachers. I'd have to go back and check to see about like a reading specialist or a math. So, it's a very specific number of people in these positions versus in your building and students in

066your >> and I and I would understand that as far as the education side goes of it. The reason I'm looking at it this way is the cost side of it because every the you know the whole cost you you're basically how many students you have. >> But I want to compare apples to apples, right? And so I don't want to I don't want you factoring in um every one of our employees and comparing that number to another division that's only using a segment of their employees per student. >> Okay. >> I think when we go down that comparison process, >> let's face it, we bet we have a disadvantage for the economies of scale. >> I think so too. And even using percentages when people look at percentages it's like oh we doubled something

067and you oh yeah you went from one to two big deal. Um so those are the things when you're talking small numbers and a shrinking school environment doing per head per this. It's you got to be careful. >> Well and I think too like student needs are going to drive some of that um >> some of that teacher ratio the number of TAs. And so, um, if we have, again, that that's part of the reason I brought up the the whatever 41% of our students, um, having an IEP, because that's going to require that's going to dictate the number of special education teachers that I have that I'm federally required to have. That IEP drives the number of minutes that that student has to have interaction with that special education teacher or TA. So that's

068going to drive the number of of TAs then that I also have to have how we on the dayto-day basis, how do we deploy those special education teachers to best benefit kids. So we we try to target a sped teacher for English and math. So that's changing the master schedule. So we you know you've part of that drives staffing. We have IEPs where students are going to need um speech therapy or occupational therapy. So we have to contract some of those services out to and provide those very specific therapies for kids. And so it kind of it just runs the gamut. And so if if another school division doesn't have that number of special education students, they're not going to have those same staffing needs and etc. >> Some of it's numbers, some of it's

069just the story behind the numbers, too. >> Could we let Miss Digs have you have a comment on this subject? >> Go ahead. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to take all that. Just one comment. I was in the elementary school last Friday morning and spoke to a teacher there. >> Oh, sorry. >> You may not make it. You may have >> We have friends at home. >> No worries. >> Can you hear me now? >> Okay. Um, last Friday Whoa. Last Friday I was over at the elementary school and I spoke with um a teacher there and asked her how things were going and she said Katherine this is the lowest group I have ever had. She said they the parents are not reading. She asked the question parents are not reading to them at

070home etc etc. And there was an assistant in the room at the time and she said, "I am trying everything and I don't know what to do next." Just one comment. Sad. >> That's very That's very sad. >> It is. >> Your last two questions is the the based off of your cow sheet, what is your estimated utilities from the state for FY27? As far as the >> the utilities revenue, I'm sorry, the revenue that the state send you because I know they send you the utilities and then they send you the opera other operations and maintenance and you sent me the other operations and maintenance or Dr. Daniel did >> on the revenue side. >> Hopefully they don't know we put in LEDs. >> Yes. I mean, it's it's kind of like SOQ funding.

071I mean, it's a token it's a token amount for for maintenance and utilities. I mean, part of that then goes to our phones and internet costs and things along those lines that we still have. So, I mean, it's it's fractional of what the actual electric bill would cost or heating bills and things along those lines would cost. >> But the reason I ask is I think we're paying the the electric bill, aren't we? Or the utilities we're paying, >> right? But again, they're broad categories, too. So when it when you say utilities, it's like utilities from the state definition isn't just what you're going to say is water and electric or fuel. So utilities is also some of the other infrastructure pieces that >> you know we need to >> Right. So if you could

072send that Yes, ma'am. >> No, no, finish. >> Just the last thing I had is if you could send me that with the other information, I'd appreciate it. But when I go back and look at your state revenue for FY25, you estimated the school estimated 5.972196 and indicate in the information we received that you actually received 6.2232 or 6232814 for a difference of $260,618. In FY26, you estimated 5805677. You're projected at 6018238 for >> sure. So sir, are you looking at the the what I sent Miss Wilson? >> I'm looking off off of the I looked off of the uh >> I just want I just want everybody I just want to have the same the same slot in the same screen that we're talking about. >> I'm not looking off of this. I looked

073at it last night. It was off one of the presentation. So because I didn't have this one. >> Okay. >> So my numbers are incorrect. Please correct. I don't want to say >> there was a like a memo that I sent Miss Wilson based on some of the I haven't I haven't seen that. I just use this referencing just to >> But that's what we were trying to kind of find. >> I don't think we have access to it. >> If somebody else wants to go, I'll find it. >> I just have a question. Did I say here you say um that the county is paying the electric bill? >> Yes, ma'am. But my understanding of that was once that um study was done of the usage, was it that from that study it was

074decided that the county would pick up the um electricity for all of the county buildings? Do I remember that correctly? Last year we had that >> part of what I remember from is if we're you know the investments, capital investments to improve kind of energy consumption that kind of the recouping the benefits works better, right? And that was that's when the decision was made um to part that was not. So do I am I correct in that? >> Okay. >> I mean I think >> so that was a decision the county chose to do based on the energy just basically saving money because of the energy consumption. >> I don't know if it was based on the energy audit or the energy study. I think it it had to do a part of it in

075my memory and then part of the maintenance merger um and improvements to energy energy systems within our schools. >> Yes. Okay. I just want to clarify the case. >> Sorry. >> No, I just clarify that. >> In terms of projected versus actual, one of the things that that's not the difference in what we projected in actual received um we have to factor into that state revenue when we get grants or other incentive programs. So that's especially um pronounced I think in 24 and 25 from all-in tutoring. and then also one-time safety and equipment grants. So, the all-in tutoring was I think about $265,000. I think that started in FY24. Um, so we're going to have to put that into our overall revenue category. So, that's going to, you know, when we passed the budget in

076April or whatever of that year, that all-in tutoring money didn't come until um actually I think they dropped it in June and we had to get the county to then reappropriate it into the next year. It was it was super super weird the timing of it. >> So, that wasn't in >> that's not basic a I'm not looking at basic aid. So if if the reason I I found what I looked at here. So okay this is the >> is this what I part of the stuff that I gave you all what two weeks ago? >> Yeah it's like the three pages. >> Yes. So the but then I went to your your all's first budget meeting um and you had the proposed your draft proposed budget and that's where I got my figures for

077of the for the FY 26 of 6 million 18,000 and then FY25 6.2. So my only point to asking that is if for two years because if that if you had a grant and grants I completely understand that that doesn't mean you get cash that things like that but they're still counted in the dollar amount and then they're also in the expenses so it's a wash. So if you get 300,000 in revenue from a grant then under your expenditures you should have 300,000 so it's a wash. >> No. Um some of them are like say for instance some of them are you have to have a match. So, and so like so the security grant we may get $100,000 but it's a 25,000 a 25% match to it. So we're not getting the full revenue

078for it. We have to provide the match for it. >> Correct. Correct. But that would still be under the expense side. >> Correct. >> Okay. So the reason I ask is then this is the reason for the question is if so if FY25 and it may be a grant it shows a $260,000 addition. FY26 it shows a possible 212,000. I'm just wondering is is it going to be like that in FY27? That's why I'm asking. So when I go to look at the what was estimated, what was actual and it comes up with a $260,000 >> and also you have the the where the general assembly can make a change also. So you also have that midyear and I mean there's a lot of things that go into you know it could go up or

079go down just like right now we're still basing our budget based on what um the governor Yncan had proposed because we don't have a clear the general assembly has not finalized their budget yet. So that could change the numbers come whenever they sign off on the budget. So it could either go up, it could go down. We don't know yet. It could it could in your current budget year and your your next year >> correct for fiscal year 26 and fiscal year 27. >> But but when I'm looking at the actuals of what was estimated what was actually received for a year that's already passed. That's that's >> I think too if you go back and look at FY23 I think we were down like we were short several hundred,000 in FY23 on state revenue.

080So, I think 24 and 25 we were able to there were some some funds that got pushed in from the state or some grants that we were able to bring in to help us do some things. But the flip part of that is, you know, I think in FY23, I think we were we were down several hundred,000 based on what we projected from a too high ADM count. >> Thank you. >> Sure. I mean, I it's just hard for us to know like like safety grant money that application isn't until August 1st. We don't get notified of the awards until mid mid November. >> But you don't don't you do an amended budget if you get additional revenue that comes in. Do you don't do an amended budget? >> We will start doing amended >>

081say like we haven't in the past. >> Yes, we will start doing amended. The reason I say that is it it can if you don't do it, it can cause exactly what I'm asking about now. So that's that's my >> and I think that's part of the confusion too where at times we've given um like we've talked this is what the projected budget was and then at other times I'm like this is what the actual budget. So then that's part of the memo that I sent yesterday or the email like hey this is this is what was projected. This is what was actual. So, keep in mind that we're doing a little apples and oranges um comparison in these in these numbers, but I knew you had wanted to that kind of question had been

082um formulated for a while. >> I have a comment or something for us to think about. um and we're happen to be on the right slide that I have questions about textbooks and I've talked some to um Miss Hunley and Dr. Daniel um about this. I know we have some textbook per upcoming textbook purchases that are required and that we've got some uh we were given some money for that, but is there any wiggle room? Is there any of that that is not required? And I'm wondering for anything that's not required, do those teachers want them and will they use them? >> So I think there there are a couple pieces to that. So I think we can the state there's going to be an approved state textbook list >> and so our teachers will

083um go through along with community input um and we'll kind of vet those approved textbook options and make a recommendation. So the pricing for those is different different from manufacturer to publisher to publisher. So there are some that I mean we can strongly encourage um the more um cost-minded textbook that approved textbook and hopefully um the cheaper because the cheaper version is what everybody likes and is better than the more expensive version. Um, we can also I know Miss Hunley does a great job of negotiating um add-ons such as um the teacher additions and some of the consumable kinds of things. We can look at some of those consumable pieces. Usually those are um packaged items kind of if you think back to when you had to get your kids school pictures, you know, you

084you you had this option or this package or this package. >> Yeah. So you could choose the so right out of we can determine kind of which package to some degree that we want. >> Um and we can negotiate a bit um but again we're not Fairfax, we're not Virginia Beach, we're not Henriiko. So our leverage with publishers is is going to be minimal. Um we may have some leverage with our participation in CIP if we end up adopting the same textbook as the rest of CIP. Um but going back to the other point of whether teachers want it and will use it. Um that's that's going to be a cultural shift >> much like we've seen with our Virginia Literacy Act and the Literacy Textbook adoption. Um there's um we're required in for the

085for the VA we're required by law that our teachers will be using HQIM high quality instructional materials. So um whether our teachers are going to be required to use the adopted materials once we adopt them once we have the training um and we've adopted those materials. So, I think the the day of um you close your you close your door and that's your kingdom, that's going to move away a bit, especially as um we have we're bringing in teachers who aren't graduating from formal education settings and don't have the curriculum writing background or those sorts of things. So, um the the state is moving to a much more um regimented process for direct instruction and highquality instructional materials that we're not going to be able to um stray particularly far from. So, I would push

086back on whether they want the textbook or why are we wasting money on textbooks and the teachers don't want them and they're not going to use them. >> Um That's um our teachers are going to have to um use them whether they want them or not. That's going to be a different piece. But use them is going to be a bit non-negotiable. >> I get that and I knew a lot of that. But I guess what what I'm asking is maybe I wasn't clear >> because we already had that kind of had that but it's good for everybody in the room to hear that you know because I didn't know till >> I had the discussion with you. But I'm just wondering are there any like maybe there's certain high school classes where the state

087hasn't said you must have this, you know, I'm think because >> Yeah. And I think too like do we go with a classroom set or do we go with every kid gets a book? You know, do we kind of like the Chromebooks? be sending a textbook home with every kid in their backpack every day, walking from a central bus stop, you know, a quarter of a mile down the road in the rain and snow and whatever, uphill both ways, >> um in the marsh, uphill. Um but >> um so I, you know, again, I think there's some wiggle room, but I also textbooks are um crazy expensive. Like those adoptions are crazy crazy expensive. We have math, we also have science. Um, and then very soon on the heels of that, we're going to have

088social studies. So, what we're negotiating or what we're talking about is um three-year deals versus seven-year deals um because of the timeline with the state and their curriculum adoption used to be pretty consistent on a seven-year cycle. The state is sup is far behind. So, by the time we get all the HQIM approved materials, there's only going to be probably three years left in that curriculum cycle and the state will start it all over again. Um, so I I honestly I I worry about cutting the textbook line item to >> to jeopardize us being able to provide tangible resources to teachers who we're asking to teach mathematics. >> Yeah. And >> and science down the road, too. >> Yeah. So, I'm not sure that that And maybe I'm not picking up what you're putting there.

089>> Yeah. And I maybe I'm not doing a good ide job of conveying it, but and I I I know that's required. I do want to give teachers great materials. And some of those extra materials that maybe are our option to purchase or we don't have to purchase can be great things to help support our teachers that are now teaching two and three things. So I don't want to take any of that away from teachers. But I guess what I'm asking is if there's any classes, any courses that we offer where the state has not said you must pick from this list of things because um historically what I've seen happen, right, >> is you know, or or maybe somebody goes somewhere and one of my friends goes somewhere and they don't have a textbook

090and she buys the $280 package of biology materials for the whole year and does great with that and that was and she prints off what she needs, you know, whenever. So, are there any classes where something like that is an option and that teacher wants an option like that that would maybe cost us less? >> Um, we can take a look. I mean, I don't know off the top of my head like >> this doesn't cover >> like if we I don't we're not teaching Cal BC. Um but if we you know okay well this this act or this textbook adoption doesn't cover that very specific science class or that very specific math class etc. Yeah, we can pick up. >> Yeah, because I' I'd love to see the details of which textbooks are, you

091know, what grade levels and subjects are these textbook number is paying for and yeah, so >> yeah, for the purpose of this discussion, just to inform everyone, this will be an item that we are exploring tomorrow in our work session, but it's so we need to get some more details on it. It does impact budget >> and I just would throw out the concept of vertical alignment as well. Um, so these are things that we we'll be talking about, but we are very aware of this high dollar line item here with textbooks and we're looking at two all angles of it. >> Dr. Daniel, >> on the CTE position that you want to keep, I assume that person is coming from a middle school. So you're going to at the high school. >> So the

092it's a current CT position, >> right? So the position a CTE teacher is going into a kind of a techn more technology support role. Um and so what we want to do is then have replace that position at the middle school. And so if we that that position in the middle school is kind of the feeder program um to start um >> you don't have a middle school. >> Well grade six and seven sorry. So some of the upper grades. Um, so that's we'd still want to offer some CTE classes to those sixth graders and seventh graders and possibly fifth graders um to then start building some of the skills or some of the >> prerequisive at that. >> Yeah. And so and it may you know that position currently is split between the sixth

093and seventh grade and then some of the lower end high school like eth and nth grade classes at the high school. >> Tonight's probably not the night. Tonight's not the night to go into this uh my question, but I would like to have a discussion presentation from the school board uh about student achievement. And I know you had one, but as supervisors, >> we go to the last the it's it's in board docs and you guys probably have it now, but you can take a look at the the bottom. supervisors constantly talk about, and I'm one of them, about how we need to have a strong school system to have a growing economy in in Matthews County. And one of the standards of achievement I keep hearing about is being able to read by third

094grade. So, what I'd like to hear from you, uh, again, not tonight, but what are the achievement metrics that you think are most important? uh how are we progressing at the different grade levels in those achievement levels? What's the plan going forward? And is there an opportunity or maybe a need for something like Khan Academy or some other resource like that? U and it's maybe too simplistic but about a year ago 60 minutes and you all can Google this but did a I was very impressed with the 60 Minutes presentation on Khan Academy and they went into a school system as I recall that had never used it before and I would just like you to address that. Uh are there other opportunities out there and and I'm not suggesting every student go to Khan

095Academy, but we may there may be an or some other type of academy. There may be something like that and I can't get enough information from watching 60 Minutes to know. So, I'd like to hear it from you. >> Okay. I mean, just in short, that's where I was talking about high quality instructional materials. HQIM is kind of the acronym the state uses. So, a lot of what's happening is a lot of the resources that we are like are able to access for our kids need to be state approved prior to us implementing them. Especially historically right now it's been in language arts and reading for the last two years and that's coming in mathematics. So we're restricted in terms of what we can um kind of deploy within our school division for it has

096to be evidence-based and researchbased and things along that. So there's an approved list that the state provides. Um so if you remember a couple years ago we were talking and um and then I think frequently teachers talk about teachers pay teachers to kind of access lesson plans and resources. We just have to before we deploy money, we have to make sure that those resources um are on that state approved list. But we can I can I can go through the achievement stuff and I know it's been a priority for the board to discuss at every school board meeting some some measure of achievement, student achievement, monitoring student achievement >> each month. So we kind of rotate a little bit kind of what we're talking about and various assessments and when they've come out and things

097like that. I would just encourage all the school board, all the board of supervisors members and school board too to look at Google the 60minute con k ah hn con academy. >> Say that again. >> Khan k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k k Ah n K con academy. >> It's been around for the first time it was shown it was probably 10 12 years ago that >> Yeah, but this this was >> it's expanded. This was an is on 60 minutes and as I recall about a year ago, but this was a an experience that a school system recently had. >>

098Okay. >> And I was just impressed by what how well it was received. It was received with some resistance at the school level, but then they it seemed to be very successful. And I'm not saying this is a solution for everybody, but if we're having difficulty with science and math teachers, maybe that may be something we could turn to. I don't know. >> I think that's a thing, isn't it? Online thing, isn't it? >> Just look at it. See what you think. Thank you. >> And I think some technology use is good, but I feel like I' I've become I became I started being a teacher when some kids were just starting to get smartphones and those became or no before they had smartphones actually they had flip phones. That's what I meant to say,

099flip phones. And those were kind of distraction. And um and then as we move, we when we took away the cell phone used during school when kids were using smart, we were the first ones to do that. I feel like a lot of times we've replaced them looking at these with these in class too much. And so I I I learn a lot of great things online by doing different online things, but I think sometimes with the younger children in particular, you know, you've got to have that relationship with an actual person and a that's in the classroom and put pencil to paper. And so um but I think you know for some of our upper grade levels that might be a good option and and I think allows us to extend our course offerings

100when we do think some things online that we can't offer in person. The thing that's something to consider. >> The thing that impressed me that I recall from the program is the insight the teacher received on each student as to how they worked their way. >> Say, >> is it like kind of? >> No, >> I think there's some diagnostic there's there's diagnostics that come >> just a little bit was a good thing. >> Just look at take take 30 minutes take 30 minutes to look at the video. >> Okay. >> Uh My mother was a teacher, my wife's a teacher, my daughter's works in the school system. I never have, so I don't have that experience. But I just think we have to sometimes think outside the box. I just encourage everyone here. We're

101the where the deciders. Let's look outside the box and just see if maybe there's an solution or something there we can use. >> So Mr. Just to be clear, are you asking for another joint meeting so we can present information to you about >> I think you I think the school board can decide how to address that. I would like to hear a discussion about it. It can be at your regular meeting, but >> what what does a parent have to pay for their child to go to school anymore other than tax? When I went to school, I bought my parents bought my textbooks. >> They don't they don't pay anything. >> There's no there's no textbook rental. Okay. Anymore that there's I I think >> I paid for my meals. >> Well, I took

102chemistry. I had a lab fee. >> Yeah, there are some there are some student fees there. Depending on what class you're enrolled in, there's some um music like there's some nominal fees. Um it's listed in our >> band. You got to buy an instrument or rent an instrument >> instrument rental and stuff like that. The school board approves those fees every May. >> Yes. >> Somewhere somewhere in that timeline. So there's a list of those. >> But textbooks, nothing. >> There's not a textbook fee. >> If I can just give some context. Um, when I first started on the school board, there was similar to what you talked about. They didn't pay for books, but they did pay more in fees. Parents did, >> right? >> But the law says free public education. And we

103had a school board member that was very um very much an advocate for reducing those fees. And um and so over time that has it has been reduced significantly. Um and so it is just for those um well first of all if someone couldn't afford to pay the fee for band we need to make sure parents know that. So it's not just >> you know middle to upper class students taking taking those courses but has changed over the last I would say eight to 10 years. Just to give you >> I agree with that premise of a free education because every one of us in here pays taxes. >> I was going to argue that point. I was going to give you kind of where we been and where we are in this meeting. >>

104Right. Right. That decision maker is not in this room. >> Right. >> That decision. Thank you. >> That is not in this room. Yes. Thank you so much, Mr. Daniel. >> Um so just to kind of transition a little bit. So I know there's quite a bit of conversation about maintenance and maintenance budgets. So what I wanted to highlight a little bit is what then FY27 then remains because so we still have a maintenance and operations budget. So what remains in that because I I think there are still from this FY26 and maintenance and how much maintenance and operations money kind of went to the county versus how much stayed in the schools. So in terms of what is projected at this point for our FY27 maintenance and operations, so the roughly 600,000 is for

105our custodial contract. And so the custodians were always in our maintenance and operations communication. So our telephone system, our next contract that remains in there, property insurance grounds. So we still um we have to um provide supplements for our portion of maintaining athletic fields. So we usually do that with coaches and supplements and stipens um to kind of line and cut the outfield, cut the football field, etc., etc. County covers basically the rule of thumb. County covers outside the fence, we're covering trying to cover inside the fence. Um within the budget right now is the match for the school resource officer and then a placeholder for a security grant match. So in years past we haven't had um we applied for the safety and security grant annually from the state but we never budgeted for

106the match. So then it became a scramble. Well can we even then use you know how do we use this money or how can we figure out and squeeze this line item or that line item. like what's in the FY27 that's that's currently what is um what is making up what we still hold in that maintenance and operations for FY27 mostly just for the board um that school resource officer is already in our current draft the budget we have that budget in the sheriff's budget so >> so we can go ahead and take that out >> okay >> sweet >> making progress tonight Right. Right. Right. Half a million to go. >> Um, okay. So, I think I think then this next slide kind of gets to where that So, again, what we've talked about

107is level funding that 9.1 minus now school resource officer grant. So, beyond then um that 9.1, what else what else then are we going to have to look at? And I intended to be um vague in talking about this because last year we went into specifics with numbers and um I don't want to send panic within the community about this program and that program and and all the things but I think there's also has to be a recognition of okay so if we've if we're moving back to you know something less than 9.1 what what are we going to start looking at? So, like we're going to look at reducing that that whatever percent pay increase um is understand that if we go below then that 2% that impacts the little bit of money that

108we're going to get from the state for that any sort of pay increase. >> Does that just mean that you have to match the 2% for the SOPs? Right. Is that what that matches? So we have to certifi right we have to certify that we gave 2% to 65 of our employees >> right so then the other the other 90 um sorry like and for us too it's difficult to determine like our SOQ position say for second grade um I have three teachers who teach second grade but SOQ may be 2.4 4. So which which one of you is the point4 teacher? Um so that's that's part of that calculation. They don't do it in whole numbers. So it's based on your class your numbers of students in that grade. So for example, like we're

109required by state code to have a secondary reading specialist, but because of our numbers, we get 0.05 funding for a secondary reading specialist that we're required by law to have. Could you get the amount that it would be for the schools for that 2% for all the like not the point4 but a whole position? Can you get what that 2% would be? >> Could you could you mind me speaking? I'm sorry. >> I I asked if if Dr. Daniel and Miss Hunley could get what 2% would be for the schools to pay for all the SOQ positions. The 65 >> just so >> that's where I want to clarify. So you're saying schools because they're SOQ positions that aren't based in schools that in order to access the state money I have to certify we

110have to certify that this percent is given to all SOQ positions. So that's going to include some directors and some administrative positions too. >> Yeah. >> So I think I think that's where I I >> I don't want to send mixed messages and I want to try to answer your questions to then get to the goal, but I think >> the the goal is to get all the state money, >> right? I mean, I think we can tell you how to how to capture all the state money. The hurdle is then you get 2% you get zero and and randomly assigning who the SOQ person is because that's nowhere nowhere is it delineated which of >> the teachers are an SOQ position and you're a locally funded position. It's >> all that stuff is sort

111of morphed together. >> So that may be an assumption somewhere that I wanted to try to clarify. So, it's we get a pot of money based on teaching or instructional positions. Um, and there's a formula the state uses, but nowhere in their metric or in our metric does it say, you know, this is an, you know, you're the SOQ person, you're the locally funded person, you're the you're the whatever, whatever. Does that make sense? >> It does. Does that mean expanding that? Does that mean the 60 SOQ position need the 2% or the 2% comes into a fund and can that be distributed across the 140? >> So in order for us what we have to do is there's a um there's an annual report that we have to certify for accreditation and and for

112funding purposes. So I have to and Dr. Gibbs also has to sign off on it that um for us to receive that money, we've given the whatever the requirement is to all of our SOQ positions. So, we have to >> even though they're not assigned, right? So we've given it and honestly what what every school division does is because every school division employs more than SOQ levels and so they take whatever they get for the SOQ position and they know they're going to have to provide the raise to everybody else. Okay? >> And the general assembly says, "Hey, we gave teachers 2%. We're doing we're doing the things we're, you know, we're we're giving teachers 2%." But they're giving us in reality about 25% of what it costs to give my teachers 2%. >> So

113just a quick question between just sorry it just hit me looking at this on your two slides that you have for budget highlights first draft budget highlights second draft. >> Okay. >> Just want to make sure I'm seeing the differences. So the difference that I'm seeing is a reduction in the raise from a 2+ one and a 6 plus one to a one plus one and a 6 plus one. >> Actually the 6 plus one should just be six because >> should be five plus >> should be five because >> just >> Dr. Daniel got carried away. >> That's fine. That's okay. Um you removed the CTE replacement of that. >> Am I correct in that? I think the C I think >> still there. I think we talked about that in the >> CT

114still in there for right now. >> The athletic trainer got removed. The raise was reduced. >> Okay. >> And then there are numerous line items cutting back, scaling back percentage. >> All right. Thank you. >> Kind of. >> Okay. So to talk a little bit about like additional ways what we're going to have to look at then then do we pass on more costs health insurance costs on to employees. Um do we look at um removing that vacant CTE position and not filling that position. Um we've already talked about the SRO costs. Um so right now Mr. Royals is planning to retire. Um so that position becomes vacant. That's a um that's an important position. Like Clyde is a I would say Clyde is a unicorn. I don't know that I would say that to

115his face, but um Clyde Clyde does like a great um he knows the county, he knows the roads, he knows buses, he knows his employees. His employees um value his leadership and will work for Clyde. um replacing Clyde is is going to be difficult on any task. Um but one of the things that we've again trying to find scenarios is do I then take some of that bus do we reassign some of Clyde's responsibilities to existing staff members um to manage transportation. So breaking off the garage part from the transport student transportation piece and you know developing some of that differently. Um, looking at contract lengths, I think we spent a lot of time last year talking about the difference between our some of our employees are 10 months, some of them are 11 months,

116some of them are 12 months. So, we have some um staff positions who we can look at going from 12 months to 11 months, 11 months to 10 months. That equates to pay cuts for those individuals. Um, so we could look at that. Um, knocking out any sort of budget for furniture replacements. um cancelling summer school. We're not required to offer summer school. Um so part of this gets into what are we required by law to have and to offer in terms of compliance and accreditation. So what we get in terms of reimbursement for summer school doesn't cover the cost for what we um put out in summer school in terms of transportation and instructional hours and and the things and food service and all that stuff. Um does it help help our kids. Yeah.

117But it's becomes we start talking people in programs is kind of where it comes down to. Um removing stipens for we're looking at particip participation rates for clubs, activities, other things. So if we're not meeting a certain level of participation, how much are we paying for coaching sitements? Um transportation for games or competitions, etc., etc. Do we continue with some of those those types of programs? Um again going back through um line items um the phrase that kind of runs through my head I think from last year was sharpen your pencils. Um so I'm going through and just scrutinizing every existing um line items. Um then we start getting into um positions that are currently filled and eliminating those positions. So that means people and rifting and not renewing contracts um figuring out ways to

118reassign responsibilities um and letting people go. And so part of that is kind of happened as we've merged reorganized the elementary school and the middle school um but looking at other departments and other ways that um reassigning responsibilities and letting folks go. I've not applied titles, names, categories, departments on that. again not not interested in creating panic but >> um coming back to the reduction in the contract length 12 to 11 11 to 10 >> um so what would how would that impact our academics because are we going to be asking them to do the same thing for less money and less time >> or going to be doing less >> um I think >> that's going to impact our student learning and the academic the culture of the school because those who work in

119the school division a lot goes on in summertime to you know to prepare for the first day of school and the school year. >> So I mean it's it's there will be an impact um if we have to go that route >> right >> um an impact in terms of what amount of things are able to to get accomplished during those summer months what services we're able to offer. I think there's um a decline there will be a decline in responsiveness depending on without I don't want to get into well if I do if I cut this person from 11 to 10 this is then the impact this is the void that's going to leave because that's going to provide some sort of indication to that person like hey we're you like we're scrutinizing your

120position so for me to provide enough detail as to the impact I I think it it then draws a line back to a particular person or a position. >> That was unfair for me to ask, but I do I just want to make make the point that I don't think it's fair to ask him to do the same amount of work and but but also get what goes on the summer impacts the school year and how smooth it is, how disruptive it is, how how smoothly textbook, all kinds of things. And so, you know, I think we need to think about I mean if that happens we need to think about how what we're going to say don't do >> right fair enough >> I just have one comment about this slide >> that >>

121where what slide are you talking about >> this one that you have up here ways to reduce the budget these are the decisions that you as a school board >> Absolutely >> this board doesn't have anything to do with how what you do or how you do it >> agreed and that except it affects our county and and they get calls if if we have a misstep or a perceived misstep then the calls come to you and like why did you do that? So I understand they're internal decisions but I think it's fair that um everybody understands consequentially what might happen if there's a reduced budget. So we're not blindly moving forward because you guys you guys got them last year and um and and it and it it affects the whole community. >> Have

122you put dollar values against those bullet points? >> Um we've got we've got tentative dollar values about okay this is roughly this if you know if we've got to look at this 12 month going to an 11 month that's about what it would cost. Um, like the other piece is like we anticipate every year there's going to be some number, somebody's somebody's going to move, somebody's going to decide at the last minute to retire >> and then we look at um not filling that that position. Okay, can we adapt? Can we do something different um with a vacant position? And we've continued to do that over over the years. Um that's that's the bulk of how we've reduced 43 positions. It's like okay we'll we'll do this that and the other but um but I

123can't plan for that um right now because we we do an intent 100% of our staff members have indicated they want to come back next year. So that's um that's great. >> Y >> um that's awesome. I think that's that's a testament to like improved climate and culture and like hey we want to be in Matthews we kind of like what's what's happening. Um but like >> like that >> I might I might need a retirement or two >> you know in terms of kind of trying to meet trying to meet budget things. I'd much rather not fill a position than tell somebody I'm I'm sorry I don't have a position for you next year. >> Is there a furniture replacement policy? Is there a life cycle replacement? After seven years, we consider this unserviceable

124or >> it's when it's broken. >> It's fly to failure. >> It's like we've welded it, we've bolted it, we've super glued it, we've sent it to the carpentry, we've painted it enough times, a husband has come in and tried to make particle board into something. I mean, I think Mr. Doss is like, and I could if Mr. Mr. Tillage wasn't looking at his phone. Um, I would ask him to testify about the stuff that we cleared out of this campus this summer when we were doing the abatement and it was just trash. >> Just for background, I went to BMI. I lived in rooms that had early 1900s and graduated 1990 for >> I think I had desks from Eisenhower's administration. I mean, it was like >> I mean, you can still learn in

125that type of environment. >> Yeah. I don't >> they take pride in that because it had been there >> just Buller Saturday. >> That's right. >> Sorry. >> I want start I agree with Miss Wilson. We need to stay in our We need to stay in our lane and don't take this >> other than what I mean to me. And we talked about this a little bit the other day. There's not a website you go to and look at a county result. My concern is tax raises without service raises usually winds up in a reduction of a county. That's anecdotal, but that's what my fear is. When we were talking the other day, you made a statement that stuck with me. I went checked and I have to say I agree with you is the

126perception lags reality. I was a little worried because sometimes I, you know, some things jump out and so I wasn't sure. >> Like slide 33 that just stands out to me. >> Your math pass rates five years ago were according to this about 40. You're up to what? 72. >> Is this I'm sorry. Is this the slide we're talking about? >> No, keep going. >> Math pass. >> Where? One more. There you go. >> That one. Okay. So all students see that green bar you're at like 40. >> Five year later you're about 72 73. But I think I agree with what you said the other day and I don't know how to get that out the public because I think the perception is 40. >> Does it make any sense to make a big

127deal about this and challenge the school? If we hit 75, let's have a community field day. I I don't you know again this is not my job. >> We can I mean I think there are ways to I I think there are always ways for us to improve our celebration communication like how are we um like pushing out what's the medium for pushing out our successes and the good things happening in the school division. Um, I think part of that is like a lot of school divisions who do that well, um, either have a person or they have a contract with a firm who like automates all that stuff for them. Like I will tell you like West Point contracts with a firm for a fee that does their their media stuff like the graphics,

128the all the all the things. Um or like when I'm in regional meetings like I'm like oh well who did that? Oh, one of my comm's people did that. And so like it's sort of one of those I don't want to cry poverty and but it's just in terms of bandwidth like I would love to have more time to improve our website and our web presence and um we've traded off a little bit who's managing our the division Facebook social media account right now it's on that misund who's who's doing the the bulk of that that task. So, it's like we we wear a lot of hats and I know that, you know, I charge the schools with trying to find somebody in your building who's going to be your school web person, your school

129social media person and trying to do a lot of that stuff. So, it's that's, you know, it's a lot of these things where we're we're trying to improve in this and trying to improve the curb appeal and the the like make sure the pipes aren't leaking from the ceiling and and I it just again I sound whiny, so I'm going to stop. But there is a way for us to to improve that. I haven't I haven't found >> Do you have any room to use citizen action groups or anything like that? Can you get some We have some talented retired people in this. >> I mean, I think there's there's probably a venue from that. So, if there's somebody out who um has is great at marketing and I have a couple. So, um my

130>> our email is now on the website. So, we've Mr. Anthony was able and Caleb was able to um get our um all of our email addresses. So, reach out. That's right. I mean, I I I think there's a place for that. Um, and so we again we contracted with a firm to redo the logo and the branding and but that was that was grant money from the women's giving circle >> and that's good but unfortunately that doesn't get this message out. >> Right. Right. This isn't school five years ago. It's not >> well and the fact that we're improvement looks good. But the other question is how do we rank without peer groups middle sex or north where are we? >> Yeah, I think it depends. It depends on the the indicator and the

131thing. I mean I think in terms of >> but if I were moving here or if I were looking to move where would I want my child to go? >> Right. So I think >> from where we were I think I think we're >> um So this is so schooldigger.com is a website. It aggregates um state testing data for states. And so you can go into Virginia and you can look at the top elementary schools in Virginia, the top middle schools, the top high schools, the top school divisions, and it has and it'll rank it kind of ranks school divisions. Um, so it's >> so there about 131 131 school divisions in Virginia right now. Um, >> okay. >> So, so point of reference. So, according to this website and their metric, their their algorithm,

132so we've gone from 76 to 51st. >> Yeah. Some of these these websites that rank, >> right? Niche.com is one of those things. And so, >> they they ask they they put a lot of weight on reviews >> reviews and of course the only people who review all >> are angry. Yeah, US News and World Report has a metric they look at that theirs tends to weight a lot with AP courses. So if you don't offer a lot of AP courses and um then again previous division where I worked we spent more time and emphasis on dual enrollment versus AP. So that um again so it depends a little bit on the metric um on their their rating scales and stuff like that. >> I think there's a lot of merit in what Patrick just

133said. Janice has been saying it since she's been on the board. Other supervisors have as well. I was I'll just say this briefly. I was at a group of a dinner party Monday night. 21 people were there. They broke it into Sorry. >> Three groups. And the >> So wild. >> The discussion was what brought you to Matthews County? Why do you want to stay here? What kind of advertising message, if you were to develop an advertisement, could you develop to bring people here? And I was just amazed and um at the end of an hour, hour and a half, what each group reported and said uh is just amazing. And we had uh commercial artists, we had people from Patrick's right, we have a wealth of people. We have to as a the two

134boards, we have to do more to enable that. And Sunday I had a citizen call me and for about an hour uh she talked about the need to have this some coordination done. And I think all we really have to do at our level is to help facilitate these different groups to get together. I mean, we have the women's giving group, we have the the uh foundation, we have Habitat, uh Hands Across Matthews, you just have so many different groups. We have so many churches that are doing things. And I think if you could combine the efforts where you find some synergies between maybe a church and uh this group over here and we could facilitate that that that the group would expand. They would get bigger and they do more and more. And I

135think there's probably a lot of citizens out here who would love to take this on of how can we brag about our school system and get the message out. Uh so I just think we as two different boards have to I know you're focused on school academics and and and we're focused but we really are missing something here I think. Okay. To bring this back around, um, as far as where does the board of supervisors are they as far as what do you anticipate that we can build our budget going forward on what county contribution from the board of supervisors? >> Realistically, we've got to approve a board a budget in March to give to you all. And so I mean I don't know that if you're ready to >> show your hand or kind

136of where where things stand. >> So I have the draft budget that the supervisors all have a copy of and it is based on a school contribution to the schools at 8.5 million. Um, and it's down to where I have it for taxes is it's essentially the only tax increase will be for the CIP. So, anything over that 8.5 million will be a tax increase unless we can further reduce. But I've I've cut >> CIP is two and a half two and a half cents or is it two cents? >> Two cents right now. Two cents in the first year and then the half cent. Okay. >> But yeah, I have cut positions um to to make the budget balance. >> And he's penny on real estate is what? 220,000. >> Two 210 >> a

137little bit better. Not Not much. Not much. You're right. >> I can't help you this year, but I do know insurance guy, not me. They might be able to help you with your healthcare issues. I don't know who you're contracted with, but that possibly could be >> the county going forward. >> I I know we're different. You use code, don't you? We use >> Yeah. for our property and stuff. And just in terms of vendor for benefits. >> Oh, yeah. Ours was 11.3 as our increase. You know, I was delighted, >> dear. Delighted to hear you say a few moments ago that everybody in the school system 100% were ready to come back for next year. And with the budget as as it is and is not, if we put the increases down for our

138teachers, etc., our staff, and we pile on more of the health care cost because we know it escalates. I wonder how that response would be, you know, that that would grieve all of us. >> I believe Dr. Daniel, if I'm not mistaken, you have a slide somewhere what it would take to get to the 8.5 million. Yeah, I do not I think we had talked about that internally, but I didn't I didn't want to mistake, >> but that because I think that then generates a level of of panic that I >> um or concern that I don't want to use hyperbole. Um but I think that >> fuels I got copied on an email >> response about well I heard I heard you're cutting this program. I heard this program is getting the axe etc

139etc. So like I don't I don't want to set that in motion if we don't need to. >> One thing one one other thing I I just uh we are giving 2% across the board is what I have in the budget. So I don't think it would be fair for the schools to say zero. I think if they were to say 2% and then everybody's fair but Just my two cents. >> I think >> we're doing the 2% primarily because that's what the state >> Yes. >> Um to follow up on what said I we have seen progress in academics um and student achievement retention 76% to 50% ratings. I just worry, my greatest concern is can we continue um that movement forward um with what the proposal is um the 8.5 and I my

140I fear we're not going to be able to do that. Um I know you've got your decisions to make and I appreciate that. Um but I just I worry that this this will not be able to continue. I mean, I think everybody will do their best to to uh to support that, but I think there will be some consequences in student achievement. Um, with less staff, adding on staff, less uh 12 month to 11 month, 11 month to 10 month, there will be a consequence to our student achievement. >> Thank you. The thing that bo the thing that bothers me when I think about and we're not talking about it is um I was I'm concerned about like like under $3,000 from the state per student. That bothers me because that's just well doesn't make

141sense to try to get more students. So that that's a a concern. But >> that's due to our local composite index. Yeah, I know. I know that. >> But um >> we this the the declining enrollment and the continued forecast of declining enrollment makes me say we've got to really think outside the box. We've already thought to close one school. Maybe a little too late. Should have maybe done it sooner, but that's hindsight. What are we going to do if we're continuing to see that? I mean, we thought we had leveled out or we were hoping we were leveled out. >> Yeah. I mean, >> but we're not using those numbers. We're still showing a 10. >> Well, this year's based on 725 and we're also projecting 725 ADM for next year, too. So, we're

142in terms of our projection in terms, >> right? I'm I'm fingers crossed that um keeping the same um budgeted ADM will will continue to work for us because I think we're going to I think we're still going to stay >> um stay above this unless something crazy happens. I mean our >> you know we've we've ticked down a little bit over the course of this year but it's not like there there hasn't been a huge drop off. I'm not seeing the number of kids, families, um, like mid year pulling for homeschool. Like we're we're going to get families moving out usually around Christmas time. Somebody's somebody's moving at the end of the calendar year. We typically get a couple couple folks moving in. Um, but we haven't had the the rush of what I would

143say is homeschool avoidance for attendance, discipline, things along those lines. We still have a couple. We've had a couple during the year, but those those weren't um ones who we were chasing for attendance. Those are like, you know, other other reasons for those families to select homeschool. I >> think the uncertainty of having to downsize, how long to continue to downsize is is very hard for all of us. And if we can feel like we can keep what we've got, at least we, you know, maybe the way we need to be and that's okay. I'd love to see it grow. I know we have excess capacity in some in most places. So that's my concern is just get those head counts up somewhat >> and then the way you do that is have great schools,

144>> right? And programs and things that interest kids and are going to draw families to come and come and be a part of those things. >> Right. >> I I'm hopeful uh that this year and maybe next year is going to be a positive transition in with Matthews County uh in the general assembly. They are I am hoping and expecting the general assembly to improve an increase in the sales tax for the state, which would include Matthews County, from 1 cent to two cents. They've said that one penny uh is going to be committed just to school construction, which doesn't do a whole lot for us. But in this CIP budget that we're talking about uh are some school expenses. And one of the bills in the legislature is that uh if this goes through

145that you can not only use this money for future school construction, you can use it to pay debt service on old school construction. that would have some impact on our uh real estate taxes right now. This if we're talking about a bond, which we haven't decided the amount, but that's all coming out of the real estate taxes. If part of that bond includes school construction and the legislation allows it the sales tax to be applied to debt service on past construction that would have some lowering of the uh real estate taxes and this LCI we all know the LCI uh is out of whack. Uh the JARK committee has shown that it's going to be really hard to change that. But just for an example, Lowden County has a lower LCI than Matthews County. >>

146They're getting I forgot I forgot the figure, but multiple billions with a B of dollars from data centers. And none of that is included in the LCI. There was some legislation to have that income from LC from data centers to go to the states and maybe help offset the school system, but things are just getting more out of whack in that regard. >> U and I'm hoping that we will begin to see some adjustment. Uh, and the way they've tried to adjust this in the past is rather than changing the LCI, they come up with additional supplements and they'll give you a supplement for this or supplement for that. And and these small school divisions like in rural communities like Matthews are going to have to be more vocal in the general assembly. And you

147know, maybe we can get legislation that says uh this 1% sales tax, which is right now committed all for school construction, maybe in in certain counties like Matthews where we don't have the revenue. U maybe a p percentage of that can go to operating costs. I don't know. These are things we're going to have to fight for and try to get. But uh the LCI only takes into account 10% of your sales tax. And in Matthews County, we don't have a whole lot of sales tax. So 10% doesn't amount to a lot. >> But when you go to Lowden County and Gloucester and York County and Williamsburg, they're not accounting for 90% of their sales tax, which is a huge amount of money coming into the localities. And and so we have to begin to

148point out these differences and I'm hopeful. It won't happen overnight, but I'm hopeful in the next couple years we can see a shift, but it's not going to happen unless we get out and fight for it. >> Well, may I ask on that point because that's been on my heart a lot lately, the LCI. >> Oh, sorry. Thank you. Yeah, that point has been on my mind a lot lately with the LCI. What do you suggest any of you suggest that we as sitting boards can do to improve this sooner rather than later? >> Well, I think it's totally unfair. uh >> 50% of the LCI is real estate tax is >> property assessed values which seems reasonable because localities can place a tax assessment on real estate values but 40% of it is based

149upon adjusted gross income of our residents and we can't tax the adjusted gross income of a resident so my thought and I think Dr. Daniel can help us a lot on this. My thought was to uh develop a spreadsheet and it's already online of the LCI for different communities. But let's let's try to find some metrics that we think might be helpful. For example, let's look at the uh to me the LCI should be based on the total revenues that locality gets. What is the total amount of revenue that locality gets and what is their expenses and and do a metric there? But let's just look at the sales tax. Let's do let's see look at the total sales tax that each community has. What percent of their school system would be paid from that

150sales tax that that's not going to and and then do a comparison and see where where we rating that. Are we in the bottom 10% of of localities that can uh you know pay it for Matthews County is it going to be 10% of our school system can be paid by sales tax whereas Williamsburg it can be 50% of their school systems paid by sales tax. To me, that's a very important figure. And and that's what it's going to take, I think, to point out to the general assembly that the system, this system is, I think, 40 or 50 years old. And back then, we were much the state was much more of a rural community uh economy. And you know, we're having all kinds of Just look at the data centers that are coming

151in and that's not even counted for. Uh I sort of take a beef at New Kent County putting up their uh speed radar. I don't want to call it a trap, but their radar on 64. >> They're getting that goes to their locality, but my tax dollars help to pay for 64. >> Me, too. And none of that money is coming to to to our county. Um certain counties are benefiting from their geographic location and we're being disenfranchised because of our geographic location. And uh the thing about the LCI, it's a big chunk of money and everybody gets a punch part of it. If more money comes to Matthews County, that means someone else gets less. And who's going to get less are the urban areas because they're getting they're benefiting from uh like I

152say, their sale sales tax, their their in their tax on equipment, business equipment and things. It it's just skyrocketed as a percentage of their income over the last 40 and 50 years. And the LCI has doesn't take into account any of those changes. Matter of fact, it doesn't even count that at all. So uh we have to find ways to point out the discrepancies and see and and the jail studies behind it is it uh helps us and the legislature knows there's this problem but if nothing else we're going to have to say you you may not be able to fix the entire state with make changes of LCI but here in Matthews County we are being tremendously disenfranchised and you going to have to at least do something for us. >> Yes. >> And

153and that's what I'm talking about. Us having to put this together and and uh maybe we have enough time between now and the next general assembly session to try to get something together. Nothing's going to happen this year at all, of course, but >> but we're gonna we're gonna have to take this on ourselves and do it because no one else is going to do it for us. Tom, this is where one of the um citizen groups could help. Yeah. >> A lot >> because I think they would lobby as well for us and maybe go with other rural counties that are in the next. >> Yeah. I mean I think we like is there I mean so we've got another work session scheduled for next week. >> Next Tuesday. So, I guess I'm trying

154to think through >> Well, I was going to add if everybody doesn't mind. I think that um you know, you've alluded that it's going to affect academics. It may or may not. I don't know. But if it does, I think um at least I and I think we all want to have the best school system here, but if it's going to affect academics, I'd like to see how that's going to affect academics. So, at least for me, >> part of the challenge in doing that is then like if I'm cutting position Then I'm having to then announce this position is now on the chopping block and that's going to be the ripple effect of either that direct service with kids or um I mean we're going to like part of that decision making is I

155think we're going to avoid cutting something that's directly onetoone with kids or directly impacting with kids. And so is there administrative things that we can reassign and redo and and fill and um some of those reporting responsibilities but then >> so you just prefer users to give you a dollar amount and that's it. >> Um I mean it's going to be I I think kind to go to Miss Wilson's. >> Yeah. Miss Miss Hunley is much more direct than I am. But I think also too it's >> like we're going to have to make those judgment calls and those decisions. you all are stuck with having to make a decision about tax rates and the impact on, you know, all those those pieces. I think me telling you what you need to be doing for,

156you know, the county administration and is I I don't know that's not my expertise. That's that's not what I do. Um, and so I think >> so >> it's it's tempting, but I think we need to avoid avoid, you know, Miss Gibbs, before you wrap it up, I think you're getting ready to do that. You said you did 193,000 meals, right? >> You said 43% of the kids were eligible for free meals. >> It's slightly different. Okay. So 43% of our kids are direct certified. >> Okay. So because of that number, so their families would be considered lowincome families in Matthews. So that number drives our eligibility within C. >> Okay. >> C then has different reimbursement rates for um direct certified students and kind of full price students. So the 40 the 43% is

157more of an indicator of um let me let me phrase it to you this way. The number one predictor across any kind of research and student achievement, the number one predictor for how a student is going to do in school is parent income. >> Is what? >> Parent income. Sure. >> It's parent income. And so it it costs relatively speaking it costs more to el to educate four kids. So that's an indication of the families that we're serving as a school division in terms of this is that coupled with >> let me let me just finish my thoughts. >> Okay. >> 193,000 I multiplied that by 0.57 those are not lowincome people. I multiplied that by 75 that's $82,5750. This cost me a dollar at Food Lion. If you charge 75 cents a meal to

158those that can afford it, you've got 82,500. You've got like two and a half, maybe three teachers aids. >> I know it's right. >> I think there's some dealing with federal reimbursements and foods and criteria. There's all of that stuff. So, and we've had conversations about our meal rates and costs and um some of those things in terms of there's a slide in there about ways to generate revenue. Um we didn't we didn't talk about it, but there's some other things that I mean we're going to look at rental fees for facilities and groups using you know like auditorium and other kinds. So like >> so >> that's that's part of that conversation. >> Can I make a suggestion about next Tuesday the third? That's like a week from now. It's It seems very quick.

159We also have a budget workshop on the 12th. Would it be unreasonable for you to go back with the information we got from this and bring something to that workshop on the 12th? >> I just think it's a really good >> in terms of that something like like here's what we're thinking a line item budget would would look like for >> like the furniture replacement cost. I'd like to see what the if you're not going to replace furniture, is that what you're going at? >> Yeah, like the information that that we've asked for that you're going to get. I >> mean, I think we can start clawing away at some other things to move from 9.1 to 8.5 and what that what that looks like. >> So, my hearing say another joint meeting. Is that

160what I'm hearing? >> We could we could well it's not a joint meeting right now, but we could make it a joint meeting. >> We can I have we can see what we can pull together by Tuesday and see what that looks like. It's I mean I can throw that out but >> the third is a work session joint work session still having that >> I I will not be here but >> oh Wilson will not be here but actually >> that's our next joint the third >> yes week from tonight >> I won't be here the 12th >> you won't be here the 12th >> maybe they have is >> what time we need to have session on the 12th. Is that >> see where we go day? >> Keep to the third. >>

161No, it's in the evening. >> Okay. All right. I could >> Oh, no it isn't. What time is that meeting >> on the 12th? It's 1:00, isn't it? >> It's at 1:00. >> Okay. Because I've already had to take off three days. >> We'll have to come back to that issue and we'll we'll keep our third scheduled as planned. Everybody's in attendance. >> Yeah, exactly. I'll be here. So, >> great. Okay, perfect. U Mr. Morgan, >> before we close, I just have a couple of comments. >> Um, some of you have already heard me say these things before. Um, but no one likes tax increases. I certainly don't. And I can certainly appreciate the position that your board of supervisors is in. You know, we've got to have money. Where do we get it? We

162don't want to raise taxes. I understand that and I wouldn't want to be in your seat at this time. Um, that being said, when we're talking about schools, it's always, it always has been, how can we reduce the cost of operating our schools? Can we cut this? Can we cut that? Can we cut the other? Reduce the cost. I understand uh any organization, any any agency should operate as efficiently as possible. I believe that. Um, but it it seems that in Matthews we're pretty limited to real estate tax. That is our main revenue. Is it not? Am I incorrect in saying that that's our main source and and we not only do we not want to increase that um I think it would be detrimental in some ways if we do. Mr. debate pointed out

163recently at a meeting that he felt like it may force people or be force some people to to move to leave the county. Um, he could very well be right. I don't know. But I say all that to say that maybe we should be looking at as board members, both boards, looking at ways, brainstorming ways, how can we raise some more money because I think we all know that we can only cut school budgets or any other budget so much and there's there's a limit where you just can't cut anymore. So personally I feel like we should start brainstorming about how can we increase revenue what what can we do how can we generate new sources of revenue and I know in years past and we can't change the past there have been businesses that

164would like to have come into Matthews and they were turned down either by if it's planning commission zoning board of supervisors I don't know who but it didn't materialize Those businesses went to neighboring counties and they're doing very very well. Now, I'm not suggesting that we need factories and smoke stacks, but there certainly there are some quiet businesses that could function, do business in Matthews, and help generate some revenue. >> It would be nice. >> Yeah, it would be very nice. And listen, I'm not pointing fingers at any of you folks tonight. No, not one of you. Don't please don't misunderstand me there. But, you know, we just we reach a point where >> we've cut, we've cut, we've cut. >> What do we do? Close up and go home. >> I mean, seriously. >>

165So, just just my thoughts, you know, just my thoughts. >> When do you have when do you all have to adopt your budget? >> So, we adjusted the timeline this year. So, typically we would have adopted the budget in February, sent it to you guys. We then like nash teeth and do all the things in March. I guess you guys adopt in April. >> April. >> So the goal was to have more conversation through joint leadership and through joint work sessions that when we adopt in March that then is kind of like we're done and then you know what the number is. It's kind of like settled. So then when you go to adopt in April um then you're done because what we Then in years past after you guys adopted in April, we would

166have to go back and change our February adopted and then there's a race to try to then get contracts out and >> so what date is that in March? >> March 17th and our next meeting is the 12th. >> 19th. >> No, not the regular meeting. Our next budget workshop >> the 12th. Yes. >> Okay. It instead of meeting on the 3 for a joint um because we haven't met a second time as a board yet. I think it might behoove us to meet on the 12th and then have our joint if it's possible between the 12th and the 19th. >> Our meetings on the 17th. >> The third is a joint meeting with the school. >> It was a joint meeting next Tuesday. >> Why should we do that if we haven't already met

167as as >> do it on the third? Because we were scheduled for a meeting on the third anyway. >> That was a joint meeting though. >> That's a joint meeting. I'm just saying instead of making it joint, make it >> Oh, you mean for us to meet on the third? Yes. >> Well, we can have it remote. It's not going to be here. >> Okay. >> So, >> do you see what I'm trying to get at? If we could meet once before our next joint >> so that the next one be more productive. You're feeling that the >> So, so are you saying if we have our workshop on the 12th and then they adopt in the 17th have something right after the 12th? Yes, it would have to be. When do you when do

168you come back? I know you're >> this the sixth. >> Okay. So, we could actually meet anytime after the 6th. Um and maybe even meet with them before that. Just I just think that it might behoove us if we as a board met first before we do another joint meeting. >> So, we want to cancel the third meeting >> joint. What What were yall's thoughts? I was thinking the same thing you were >> we going to know more on the third that we don't know today. >> Well, I I agree. I agree. So that's >> we can we can definitely >> I think we at least need to kind of talk through like I think the school board needs to as we're trying to get closer to that 8.5 then I think my board needs

169to have an understanding of what that's going to look like and what our proposals and how they line up because five fives different perspectives and trying to coales onto a plan. >> You're going to meet on the third, but it won't be a joint meeting. Is that what you're >> It's a work session. >> I mean, it'll be a work session for us. >> It just Yeah. I just don't see any any benefit for us to meet on the third. >> What do you That's just No, it makes sense. >> I think I know everything. Sorry. >> But then on the 12th, so they're meeting on the 3 >> and you want to meet before the 12th. >> Yeah. If possible. >> Okay. So, we need to schedule another workshop and then the March 12th

170will be when >> that would be great if you're going to be here for that. >> You back on the 6th or >> we haven't seen the budgetable. We discuss how leadership meet. >> That's what I'm saying. That's why I think we need to have workshop >> ourselves get to that >> before we have our next meeting >> and I haven't got everybody's changes yet. >> Yes. >> What what would be a potential for that >> date? have any further next? >> So, you're saying they're saying they're going to meet on? >> Probably not. At least I don't think we will. >> Well, we're going to ad hoc one right now. >> We have one scheduled for the 10th already, right? >> No, the 12th. >> Did we have one scheduled for the 10th? I

171didn't have it on my schedule yet. I didn't have it on my schedule. Would that be after your meeting? >> We were thinking of having it on the 10th. >> You're thinking of having it on the 10th. So the leadership meeting, could we have it on the 11th? >> I know. >> 11th. >> Check schedule. >> Mr. Morgan, the 11th. >> At what time? >> Wednesday. >> I want to move the leadership meeting. >> What time? >> Yes. As far as I know, that would be fine. >> Okay. >> It'll be an evening, right? >> So, we're talking about >> leadership leadership. >> Joint leadership. >> Oh, joint leadership. I got you. And that would be timing on that. >> Yeah. One is what we want. >> Okay. >> He's better than after 12. >>

172Okay. So, we're looking at a 1:00 start time. >> Does one work? >> And this is leadership. >> Leadership only. >> We have a meeting to Yep. >> So, is this Tuesday the do day? >> Let's talk about that in just one second. >> Probably canceling a joint. >> Never mind. >> But I'm not sure if we will. You're still working. >> I Yeah, >> you got to remind me. It will finally see. >> Okay. >> You probably do need to adjourn, but I do have another comment to make. >> Yeah, that's fine. It's in the morning. >> Yeah, it's in the morning. members just >> all members what what I'd like to do right now is to finish any comments that we have that are germanine to the topic at hand we'll adjourn and

173then we'll clarify calendars after that >> okay >> um so are there any other comments pertaining to uh the budget situation I just I wanted to say Mr. all you don't know me well. Uh so I was not going to close the meeting, >> but I I did have a comment. >> Yes. Um I I just wanted to remind um the citizens and all board members that there are five board members on the side who do vote to approve a budget. So if we are backing into a number, we may or may not be able to with integrity approve that budget. It's going to be a a we need a series of conversations. We need more information going across, but this board is made up of five individuals who, as Dr. Daniel just said, see

174things through different lenses, and they can vote yes or no. Our job is to ensure the integrity of the school system to help our students achieve. And if we have gone past the point of allowing that to happen or if that is at risk to too great of an extent, individual members will make the decisions that they make on that when posed with that vote. So it is not we're not one one body. We're five different people voting. So, I just I just wanted to say that for the record for the county to know that we're facing some um serious discussions here and and this was a very productive meeting. I would I would like to say and thank you so much for your participation and collaboration and I look forward to ongoing collaboration with

175you. Decisions are not made yet. Um and we're all working hard to make the best decisions we can for this county. So I think we would all agree to that. Are there any last second comments, Mr. Bowen? All right, there being none, this meeting is adjourned. Thank you everyone.