MCPS School Board Town Hall 10/23/2025

001Good evening and welcome to the Thursday, October 23rd, 2025 Matthews County School Board Town Hall meeting. Would everyone please join as you are able to stand for the pledge of allegiance? I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the stands nation indivisible and justice for all. The chair will be the facilitator for tonight's event and item 1.4 I will read the Town Hall procedures. Each Matthews County citizen wishing to speak shall provide his or her name and address on the signup sheet provided at the entrance to the Brooks Auditorium. Citizens who wish to speak will have the opportunity to approach the podium one time and singly to ask a question. The citizens question should be kept to a maximum of two minutes. Questions should not to personnel or individual student

002matters. Schoolboard members and or the superintendent will address each citizen's question. Once a citizen's question has been addressed, the citizen will have up to two minutes for one follow-up question or rebuttal. Once all initial questions from citizens have been addressed, and as time permits, each citizen will be able to ask a maximum of two additional questions. Citizens who are unable to attend the town hall meeting in person or prefer to submit questions by email may do so by using the Google form available on the MCPS division website at matthews.k12.ba us by noon today. Please include your name and address on the form. The questions will be read aloud and addressed at the town hall meeting if time allows. The town hall meeting will No later than 8:00 p.m. this evening. Our first speaker tonight will

003be Cynthia Montikue. Yes. Is it? May I ask what it is? databases and resources for students. No access. >> Miss Montiku, would you please take the podium? Yes. >> Thank you. try to talk as fast as I can before I get cut off. My fight is not against this school board or school administrators. My fight is for our students. Our students are being robbed of the opportunity to access educational resources, pursuant to Virginia code and your own scoreboard policy on school library media centers. a student's lack access to resources. And in midFebruary, 20 months ago, I phoned our assistant superintendent, offered to help the high school librarian develop a web page, set up research collections, teach research skills, and find free online databases for students to use. I gave her the URL for Nelson County

004High School Library. as an example of a high school library web page. She reported back to me that the librarian declined to meet with me, but she would develop a library web page. Following the example I provided this morning, may I remind you 20 months later, I spoke with the high school librarian, learned that there was no high school library page and only RCC students had access to databases. I asked what had progressed with the implementation of the web page listing free online databases and resources. And she claimed that a web base was forthcoming, but she needed the permission of our superintendent and assistant superintendent. Remember, this is 20 months after the fact. I also messaged a high school student who attends the governor schools this morning. He wrote back, "I don't think they've ever

005set up databases for students. We just Google and they tell us how to look for reliable sites. Unlike until aa school board oversees administrators providing research sources to our students as outlined by Virginia code and our own schoolboard policy manual. I offer students the following link for free resources. Your student can call me if they need help with a research paper. I'll show them how to use databases to obtain information, analyze, use it and site resources. I'll give anyone that information. Now my question School board members, superintendent, assistant superintendent, you are failing our students. So I have to wonder why no one is evaluating the school personnel who are in charge of instruction and supervision of instruction. This is negligence. Who is going to step up? >> Thank you, Miss Moniku. Um can we can

006we talk a little bit about the access that we do provide for um databases? Miss Monu, we will be responding to you now. We we are responding to you now. >> I'll be honest. I don't know uh the specific databases. I will say that um I worked with the high school uh media specialist on developing websites. She's been plugging away at developing the high school page. Um, she and I spoke recently about that progress. I anticipate that page I think she's pretty close to finalizing. She wants to do a couple more updates. So, I anticipate probably within the next two weeks the high school um website, the library website will be up, but um I can go back. I'm not clear on if these particular um databases are linked onto that website. So, I can

007surely go back and check um when we review the website before launching it. >> I would be interested in knowing all that information. Members, >> yeah, I just have so having a separate page >> um just for the library. >> Okay. And so in that they will I'm assuming here that they will have some kind of search engines. Is that is that should we make an assumption or just make it easier for students to access you know from home or from where else? >> I think sorry the the purpose for having these um databases is that they're vetted sources instead of just whatever is going to pop up on Google or whatever random search engine. So, it's they're going to have vetted um I don't know necessarily like research base, but they're going to be

008vetted sources for students as they're conducting research for various topics. So, it's just having kind of a these are better sources, better repositories of information than just typing into AI or typing into um just straight Google and seeing what you get. >> Right. Okay. That's great. you have the opportunity to for one more two-minute rebuttal or comment on this topic. >> I I have to question who on this school board or which of our superintendent have any knowledge to know that the library is failing the students. This is your job to be familiar with instruction and resources. The school library media center is the center of learning in schools. If you read your school board code, have you read your school board code and code of Virginia? Students are required to have access before school,

009during school, and after school. This is not being done. The high school library closes. Students don't have till 4:00, which they should have, especially high school students. They are taught nothing. It is the librarian's job, the principal job to co-e with teachers on utilizing research databases and teaching them skills how to do citations. It is their job. If you look at any description of any librarian, they are teachers. They don't they're not supposed to sit in a library and check books in and out. You know, that ended 25 years ago. And our students don't know how to do research. These kids going to college haven't a clue how to do research. And we're supposed to be teaching them that. If you look at your SOS, they're supposed to be doing research. How can they do

010research when they're told, "Well, just Google it." And the funny thing is, I bet you, if I ask you, what is Google Scholar right now? How many of you know what Google Scholar is? >> Google Scholar. >> Okay. teachers know what it is. Do our students use it? No. Because no one is giving them free information and teaching them how to use these free incredible resources. I can go to Google Scholar and research anything I want, you know, anything. And journal articles will pop up that are peer reviewed. I it'll tell me how to do the citations for the article. I can copy it, download it onto a Google doc, and save it. >> Thank you, Miss Monu. I I do appreciate your comments very much. Thank you for bringing that to our attention again.

011>> Um, there's only one article on here that I've used and it's because of what it is, and that's the Britannica. When I do history and I'm talking to someone, I want pretty much neutral facts because some of these other sites lean one way or the other. And anytime you're going to talk about something, you better know the source it's coming from. Is it credible or not? And I would say on this list, Britannica is probably the most credible there is. I'm just going by the past. I don't know. I don't know what's come down the pike since. >> Mr. Mrs. Hodgees. >> Excuse me. Mrs. Hodgees has the floor. Mrs. Hodes has the floor. >> I'm I'm a bit I mean, I can't speak to the librarian and her knowledge base about citations and

012research. I do know that there's a components in the curriculum in the English curriculum that does address research. Um I can't I believe there's probably some in every grade. I know that it's ninth grade. Um so to say that we are not doing it at all I I don't think is is accurate. Can we beef it up? It certainly sounds like we can. Um but but um so you and I may disagree on that, but we will certainly look into what the curriculum is now in the nth grade and if the teachers are um fulfilling what they need to be doing in the in the English curriculum. >> Miss Montue Miss Montikue, I'm sorry, your time is up. Thank you very much. Our second speaker is Miss Amy Bohannan Stewart. Good evening. Um, my daughter

013played volleyball two years ago and uh I saw sheriff's deputies at the games providing security and I attended two volleyball games this year and I did not see any sheriff's deputies at those games. Why don't we have sheriff's deputies at volleyball games anymore? >> Thank you, Miss Bohan Stewart. >> Sure. And some discussion about um the need for having deputies at volleyball games versus some of the other games. Um consultation with athletic director and some staff at the high school. Um they felt like it wasn't needed for volleyball games. So they were not bringing in um um and then there's a cost associated with um bringing in SRO's or deputies after hours. So based on turnout and what they were in terms of need over the life of volleyball games, they decided that they didn't

014want to continue with that. >> Okay. >> Um and I get to >> that was the rationale. I mean, I don't know if other board members want to >> kind of comment on it, but yes. >> Two minute rebuttal. >> Okay. So, I just wanted to make you aware that I noticed and I I would like to see them return. >> Um, and I have had parents say things to me and comment on when we go to it was a volleyball parent. when we go to these other events, away games, they're, you know, scanning us as we come in. And so that I know there's at least one parent out there that felt strongly enough about it to say something to me more than once that we weren't, you know, doing as well with sporting

015event security as other away places that they travel to. So, >> just wanted you know, I'm done. I would just say it's partly the sheriff's department. You know, we need to also reach out to them to see what their resources are. Um it's again a collaboration. Um so it's it's it's partly us and partly the sheriff's department, but again I would say there is a cost. Um and costs as we know our budget is very we don't have additional monies. So, um I think we can look into it. Um I think we should look into it and find out what keeps that from occurring. >> Thank you. >> We do not have any other speakers signed up on the list. Is there anyone who'd like to approach the podium now? Good evening, Sharon Fry Port

016Haywood. I came to the meeting the other night and I felt like I was in Groundhog Day. Same thing, same thing, same thing over and over and over. I would not like to be sitting in your chairs, but something is definitely wrong that our scores are not going up. Our kids can't read. Uh, I have three questions and I don't I have to decide which one I want to ask. So, I guess on the top of my list is I wasn't here for the new financial officer voted in and it has a lot of cost. We don't have the cost to have safety officers at our functions, but we have the cost for a new financial officer. My question is is how did this come about? What is the job description of this person? And

017why couldn't the administration, the superintendent of schools, the assistant superintendent schools, the board of supervisors, and all our financial gurus in our county that claim to know financial stuff and well-being. They're all versed on this. And yet, we had to hire a new financial officer at the cost of $131,000 a year. And I would like to know what his job description is that he can do it and our people cannot. >> I'll start. >> I would I would say we don't have financial gurus or haven't had financial gurus especially in the school division. I'm not going to speak for the county side of that. There is a specific skill set and um degree process that helps train a person to use budgets, communicate budgets, plan budgets to effectively um manage the funds that we get

018from the county and from the state. I felt personally and part of the the goals that were set forth to me was to do and have a better job done with the school division's finances. So, as a vacancy was becoming available, we sought a person who had a very specific skill set, who had experience in managing effectively school division budgets to help our school division do a much better job of planning, communicating with citizens, with the superintendent, with the school board, and with the county where our finances are. that's going to help me make better decisions going forward in managing when we can make purchases, what purchases we can't make. One of the things that we began to implement this year was a much more detailed line item budget. We're working through that new process

019now, whereas before we were much more categorical based. And so if you've noticed over the last I think two three months the budget report that is in board docs is much more detailed than what you were getting in months and years past. So part of that process is to improve the school division's transparency of what's in our budget. It's um the goal is to improve that communication with the county and with the supervisors so there isn't confusion about what our numbers are reporting, what our numbers what we're getting from the state, how we're expending the county's money. So the goal, my goal was to make sure that we have that the school division is doing a better job and getting better by hiring people who have have a higher level of qualifications going into that.

020So we've this person is um is also able to oversee much more of the um the benefits side of the packaging and working with the schools and the school bookkeepers um on how they're managing their budget and communicating their um their finances to the school division. So, I'm anticipating much more efficiency um in how we are managing the funds that we are earning and receiving so that we can make better decisions on a monthly and yearly basis to create more efficiencies for for the division. So that that was that's completely my goal to say that I could do it. I my expertise is not in finance. Like I'm I'm not a finance person. I do not have an accounting background. and to like to assume that I would be able to do it at the

021same level as somebody who has that background um is I would say you're giving me too much credit um to be able to do that or any other individual too much credit. It is not um it's not balancing a checkbook. It is much more complex in terms of knowing the the grant funds and the strings attach attached to federal grants that come in to how the state calculation tool and SOQ all of those monies come in and the strings that are attached to all those. So there's it's it's not as simple as revenue in and expenses expenses out. >> Is he a grant writer? Will he be writing grants? >> Um she will um will be will be working with us as we are like applying for grants because there's a match that almost always

022comes with state grants. Grant writer is not part of that job description now. >> No. >> Okay. And the vacancy that was emptied was had nothing to do with finance and the monies were not comparable at all. So the vacancy ends up being within that finance department. So the previous director of finance is moving into a different role. >> All right. Thank you for explaining that to me. >> Thank you, Miss Fry. >> Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to approach the podium with a first time question? Daniel Shrader had a question about school safety as I think all of you have been part of my email chain. Last year there was a knife made in the high school and a child was threatened to be stabbed with it. This year

023there's a kindergarter who said they were going to kill the whole class. The sheriff was never made aware of any of these things. Last year, the sheriff pulled the SRO out of the school system. You had all summer to do something about it. And here we are few months into the school year. No SRO, but you had plenty of time to find a new CFO and increase our payroll. We walk in, the doors are unmanned and open and unlocked. Anybody can come in, do anything they want. Stash a weapon. Any of the kids in this next door can stash a weapon for tomorrow, do whatever they want. No SRO. The superintendent and the sheriff are both aware of an operating gang in our school system with children as low young as 12 years old with

024access to firearms. Not my firearms that my children know about, but their own personal firearms. You are responsible for our children's safety. And uh Mr. Morgan over there asked a good question at the board meeting. How bad does it have to get before you do something? What has to happen? That's my question. >> I would agree with you that safety is essential and number one. I think we have some issues. Uh these are very complicated issues that are collaboration based that I anticipate in the very near future we're going to be rectifying. Dr. Daniel, would you like to comment on Mr. Shreder's question? >> Sure. I mean, we've to I guess to clarify a couple points. So, we were notified, I think it was at the August board meeting that sheriff had made the decision

025to remove the SRO's um from um from the schools. The the sheriff and the commonwealth attorney and I have regular monthly monthly meetings in an attempt to um work through whatever differences, philosophical differences or concerns may have arisen. So, the decision to remove the SRO's came as a surprise to me and to the board on that day. We've continued to work with the sheriff to um figure out a resolution to get school resource officers back into our buildings. Um we've continue I've reached out um and we've again conversations back and forth. She's working diligently on a grant that we hopefully will have um notification of shortly um that will um provide some support to fund two additional positions. We've had conversations uh the leadership of this board and the board of supervisors leadership. We have

026a joint leadership meeting to work on um solutions for financing. Part of that financing coming from the school division and figuring out how we can allocate move monies around to be able to um support the return of those or creation of those two new positions. Um so um I'm trying to think of some other what do we need to do? I don't think we're um as situations and vulnerabilities, excuse me, [clears throat] arise, we continue to work to address those. Um so, we've talked several times about this situation tonight. So, you've got a situation where our doors are open, anybody can can come in. We've talked about other vulnerabilities that I don't want to discuss in public to give anybody ideas on. Um, and we've worked to balance traffic flow with students and access along

027along with safety. Um, I'm I'm assuming since you mentioned Mr. Morgan's comments last night that you listened to the board meeting on Tuesday night. So, we're um I have a meeting scheduled with vendors for weapons detection um Tuesday to talk through that that process and getting um those installed um at the high school and then here at Thomas Hunter that we can begin to deploy for any manner of events, volleyball games, board meetings, town halls, etc. We've had conversations I've had conver conversation with Miss Wilson about um possibly using those that weapons detection for um supervisors meetings as well if they wanted if we wanted to kind of figure out a common space um to then move those meetings to one space and and deploy those weapons detections. We when we do threat assessments, a

028school resource officer or a police officer is in attendance at those threat assessments. Um I the what the incident you referenced um earlier. I actually looked at that threat assessment earlier today. A deputy was involved was in that threat assessment when um that took place. So those >> which one >> when you said the a student had fashioned >> you say a knife um but had fashioned an instrument. Um so a deputy was involved in that threat assessment. The student was um sanctioned for that for that behavior. >> So um I'll be honest, I don't know the details about a kindergarten student. So tomorrow I'll be going in and asking those questions to fig to learn more about those details and to figure out if something fell apart, where did it fall apart and what

029do we need to do to correct it. >> Two minute rebuttal. >> I the talk that conversations you're having is great, but it does little to protect the children on the dayto day. >> That's where the failure is. >> Thank you, Mr. Yes, Mr. Dobson. >> Problem is the sheriff just went and did what she wanted to do. School board couldn't stop anything. Okay, that deputy was her deputy and she was paying for it. Now, I'm not sure, but I believe that deputy was brought in and paid for to for to be an SRO. I'm not sure on that, but she elected to take him her out without anything being done to take care of that afterwards. Then they come up with the idea about writing the grant. I hope they get the grant. Okay.

030And that grant [clears throat] and those two officers that they're trying now will also belong to the police department. because they're under they would be under her command. Now we have to have something this time to where she can't just pull back without a replacement and pretty much there was nothing we could do. >> I believe she asked for payroll assistance from the board which was refused and I believe the grant has been approved here. >> It kind of was like I'm going to say hear a lot of people get offended by it. I'm going to take my toys and go home. >> I I heard that coming. >> That's what it appeared to be to me. >> So, you can imagine what was going on. But the whole thing is when there was nothing

031we could do about >> that person belong her. Give you a good example. >> When we do background checks on people that come into the school work around school, what have you. >> Do you know why you do the background checks? >> Yeah. parent threatened my child on a field trip and there were no background checks on the should there none >> none >> on a field trip overnight field trip >> yeah because the reason of that is what I was looking at is we have to pay the sheriff's department to run the background check >> it doesn't matter it is your responsibility to keep these >> things get out of your hand Okay, >> Mr. D. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Can I just I'm not aware of any declining of sponsorship or

032financial support um or any vote taken to decline an effort to support the SRO. like in our meeting um in that joint meeting I said we'll do whatever we can and like we'll find as much money as we can to contribute to um the the county's match for the SRO. We've had very positive conversations with sheriff. I mean I Sheriff and I have been talking pretty regularly about a n a number of different topics not just SRO um to like facilitate a quick return and facilitate um resolution of challenges or philosophical differences about roles within the school and communication. I mean, I think a lot of a lot of um the sheriff's frustration boiled down to some of the school division's communications that you've kind of alluded to. Some of it is um in terms

033of procedures on lockdowns. Really, that boils down to when to run and how to hide um and um differences in different protocols and things along those lines. And so one of the things after the incident that that you referenced um like all of our volunteers whether it's field day or any sort of volunteer now has to go through that background check. >> This is what I'm talking about. You wait for a very possible bad situation to react. This should have been in place decades ago. But my my child threatened by an adult on an overnight field trip is when you choose to do it. It's ridiculous. So you just take someone bringing another weapon to school and instead of threatening to stab someone, shooting them and then, oh, we got to change something. It's too

034late. If it's my child, I'll tell you where I'm going to be. >> I would say that this is probably the third year that um this board has um initiated conversation with the sheriff's office to get to pursue a grant to try to get a second in the schools. So, it's not something Let me back up. I We hear your concerns. We agree with your concerns. >> Okay. So, so you but as we move forward, there's been hiccups in this. Um some some that we would expect, some we did not. And unfortunately, it's taken longer. Um the last I believe it's two years that that we pursued that um without anything coming out of it. Um, so we've been left with one. Unfortunately, we want two. We need two. Um, now I'm not sure about

035the the background check for the parent. Um, that certainly um surprises me because I thought we were doing background checks, so I don't know what the hiccup was there. But we thank you for telling us that because we do need to make sure that any any adult with our students has been vetted. We've because parents know we pushed for that. We've had them call us and say, "I just tried to do a background check." The school sec secretary had no idea what we were what they were calling for. >> None. >> School secretary or administration? >> Excuse me. The school in the school >> school board office secretary. >> Okay. >> Be a wasted position. If you're looking for grant money, clean up that office. >> We need we will look into that. I assure

036you. Yeah. May I speak? >> I want to thank you for your comments tonight. >> I think all of us are very concerned. I can't push buttons right. As Miss Hodgees just said, um I know that I am and have been for some time. When I was substituting, I know we had background checks for people who were helping with field day and other events. And I am surprised about what you just said about this volunteer going without a background check and threatening your child and we will look into this. Thank you. I too would like to add in that I am surprised to hear this and I would like to I will definitely be following up on the details. I'm very dismayed to hear this. >> Spring of 23 was that when the field trip

037was >> to like Norfick there was like the FCCLA Virginia >> was like >> two years ago. Thank you. >> That person's wrap sheet was impressive >> on a field trip with children. >> Point taken. Thank you, Mr. Sher. Anyone else like to approach the podium who has not spoken? Clark, >> please state your name and address. >> Julie Clark, live here in Hudgens. I wasn't planning on speaking tonight, but yeah. But when Daniel was speaking, it reminded me of and Mrs. G said that safety was number one, and it reminded me of something that I read in that book that I gave to Miss Dr. Daniel on Tuesday um about preventing school shootings. He wrote in the book, and I like this so much that I saved it to my phone. Wherever I go,

038I ask school administrators the same questions. What is your number one job? Nearly every time, I hear the same response. To educate children. I consistently challenge this mindset. The purpose of school is to keep children safe and alive. Nothing else can happen otherwise. Math, science, sports, none of it can happen if there is no foundational purpose of safety. Education is an outcome of schools. When safety is in place, when your primary purpose is safety, it makes you a better educator. Because now you're no longer concerned with a mere test score or assignment. You're thinking about a student's emotional safety, psychological safety, and intellectual safety. Don't take it from me, the author. Take it from researchers who are smarter than me, such as the Harvard University Center on the Developing Child. We can't put a lot

039of this on having or not having an SRO. There are so many basics that are not being followed in this Matthew schools. I hear constantly from parents. Doors propped open, door alarms turned off because it's too inconvenient to turn them off and on. Well, when it's convenient for you, it's convenient for an intruder. Now, like I said on Tuesday, I've been researching school shootings and safety related issues since before Coline. The Coline shooters were wannabes who wanted to outdo previous mass school shooters before them. I have a website I just started about school safety issues. And I hate to say this, but I I titled it, "How long are we going to play dumb? How long are we going to pretend we don't know what to do?" These are basics not being followed. >> Thank

040you, Miss Clark. Your two minutes are up and we you will have a chance to respond if when members of Dr. Daniel would like to respond to you. I don't disagree with anything you've you've said or articulated tonight or Tuesday night. Um, so it's it's a matter of continuing to be vigilant. I would say one of the additional pieces beyond having SRO's or law enforcement is a culture within the school and within the students to see something and say something and to speak up when they have concerns. I think it's about 85% of school shooting incidents have some kind of leakage that goes along with that. So that there's typically um some sort of advanced notice that come and so it's developing that community of students who are willing um and brave enough to say

041hey I'm concerned about this student or that student and then it's making sure that it's incumbent on the adults to then respond appropriately. And so I think there have been some situations where we haven't responded appropriately and haven't been developing that culture well enough and also making sure that our perimeter is as hardened as possible both with um doors being left open or a jar. Uh we've one of the areas I think um that we need to work on right now with the amount of renovation and construction stuff still happening um is um while those individuals have been vetted and signed off on, it's the in-n-outs of those doors and making sure that um they're not leaving doors a jar as as well. So that's um one of the one of the areas >> the

042incident at Gloucester High School, >> right? >> Exactly. >> Yeah. I keep up with all this. >> Yep. Yep. I mean, it's disturbing to hear um that from what you hear that there are >> Well, I have pictures, too. >> Well, I I'm not questioning you, but but especially at the high school, there are, you know, it's um there's so many doors that could be open, I know have been opened in the past. This is 20 years ago. >> Um we've discussed tightening that up, making sure that that an egress if necessary but not an ingress for the students. Um but I it sounds like we have not been as effective as we should. >> So I think you know we need it needs to be followed up on and and um extra layer. Pardon?

043>> I'm sorry to interrupt. Uh an SRO is just an extra layer. We have to get back to the basics and and I've got tons of books and you've probably seen them on my Facebook page. I'll post them on there. There are tons of books out there on these basics. >> There's so much information out there that you you can't help but trip over it. >> Yes. >> I mean, and and I could bring you a whole stack of books if you you guys want them. >> Well, and but your point's well taken that SRO is another layer, right? >> It's not the It should not be the only person. It needs to be everybody >> being vigilant >> about the doors, about, you know, who's coming in, about, you know, watching the students as

044they come in. >> Um, make sure there's just, you know, two doors if possible that they're coming in. >> Um, and but making sure the other other students aren't using them or teachers for that matter. >> And that's that's the first step. That's the first base that that should be occurring. Um, I thought that was occurring, but it sounds like it's there some exceptions. So, it's our job to make sure that that's followed, you know, we go back and follow up on, but again, it's everybody's job, including the students. Oh, yeah. If you see something, say something. And that word needs to be out to everybody. I don't think you can say it enough. >> You see something, you say something. And that will begin a culture of we're all in this together and we're

045protecting to the best of our ability each other. >> You know, it' be a great idea if each school had an assembly and explain see something, say something. They should pick a safe person who they feel that they can go to. So they might not feel like one teacher or one principal that they're comfortable with, but to go to a person they feel safe to to tell. So many times students have told One little boy was actually kicked out of school because he told too late about a child who had a gun. He was kicked out of school. Not here in >> Matthews. Yeah. >> No. So, uh, yeah, I just want to qualify that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So, yes. So, they have to feel safe to do this and this. They need

046to be some kind of an assembly and parents need to be able to talk to their kids, too. But when it comes to unlocked doors, prop doors, doors alarms off, kids can't do anything about that and parents are afraid to speak up. I'm not afraid. I'm old as dirt. So, >> points taken. I I completely agree. I think it is, as >> Miss Hodes said, this is a a community a culture within the community >> for school safety. And while this board will uh hear all um complaints and and concerns. I can guarantee you this board shares them. >> Uh if we could fix it on our own, we would. We are in a collaborative relationship with the county and with the sheriff's department >> and with all levels in between >> down to the

047students and every citizen, >> but I do know this is a winning issue. >> There is not anyone who disagrees with you about this in this community. It's just how do we get there and how do we implement these techniques hardening the schools lowhanging fruit I agree with you on those prop doors anything like that >> and how do we do that consistently >> right >> and everyone on the same page and that is our that is our job to oversee to make sure it happens and with all the comments being made today um I can I can assure you it it will be addressed we as five cannot do everything alone we need all of you in this together. >> Okay. >> Thank you, Miss Clark. >> We have any other first time speakers

048to the podium? >> Yes, sir. Just please state your name and address. >> My name is Bill Johnson. Live here in the county. Put five kids through the school. You know, when you walk through the hallway, you'll see cameras. Those cameras were put in here in 2006. I was on the school board then. We were able to fund that from some money we got from a defective roof that was put in here. The roof was fine, but unfortunately 32 members of my alumni Virginia Tech were butchered. So Dave Hollerin and I who got his doctorate from Tech, we decided to spend that money to protect the school. We had locks put on every door, sensors put on those locks, and if a door was open, you got an alert. Cameras went on. What the heck

049has happened to that? I have no idea. You know, the problem that we had back in 2006 is a problem you have now. Is that we were operating in school like it was 1965 with the doors wide open, people coming in and out as they pleased, you know, for events, assemblies, sporting events, things like that. Well, this ain't 1965 and it's a different world and this is a very soft target. And I thought about whether I should make that comment with Charlie over here writing down every word like he did when I was on the board for eight years. But that's what we are. We're a soft target. You got people streaming in and out of these doors. You can't have that. At the very least, you have to have a teacher or somebody. Maybe

050we can't afford an SRO, but you can have a teacher at these doors at least eyeballing who's coming in because this is crazy. You can't have it. >> Mr. Johnson, thank you. Those were your two minutes, board members. >> All right, >> Dr. Daniel, >> I mean, we've the only thing I sorry comment as to the cameras. So, we've overhauled all the cameras since 2006. So, all the cameras are um probably within two years old. The sheriff's office um has remote access into our camera system. They have their own. It's all cloud-based now. So, the camera the sheriff's office has that access to be able to um the SRO's had um a portal um to go in to check out the cameras. Um I've got to go back and check. We've had lots of um

051faults with our access control systems, the magnetic doors, and so I'm one of the notes I've made tonight is to go back and check on the door alarms. Um some of that is failing. We've uh met with companies to upgrade that access control system and have received some um bids back for that access control system. Um and with the alarms being part of that um upgraded system with key card access and various other things. So we do have some some aging um infrastructure. One of the things I would also add is we've had and found just the mechanical parts of doors that weren't closing and locking. So, maintenance staff has continued to work to fix those, adjust those, replace those doors to make sure that um best intentions haven't been um led astray by you

052think the door has closed behind you and you didn't turn to to pull it to make sure it was secure. Um, so but in terms of procedural for tonight's meeting or other night's meetings, we haven't we haven't we've talked about it, but we've not put pieces in place for a meeting such as tonight and all of our backs being turned to the door as as folks are coming in. Imagine this is an afteraction inquiry that what we don't want to happen has happened. And if imagine all the comments that y'all are making right now, are being made in depositions. I'm a trial attorney. Just imagine this, Doc. I don't know. But imagine if everything you just said right now is testimony in an afteraction inquiry, both administrative and judicial. It's going to be terrible. Absolutely

053terrible. And you need to think about this. There's a gentleman back here talked about, you know, no more words about what you're going to do. You got to do it. And I will tell you this, I am more than happy. I know Sheriff Edwards real well and I am happy to lend a hand any way I can. You know, for eight years I served on this board. Seven years I was I was on the executive board of the Ches Bay Governor. I've got a lot at stake here. Dr. Hollering and I I think rest of my schoolboard members I think we did a pretty good job and uh I'm happy to lend a hand but and if it takes getting Sheriff Edwards in here schoolboard meeting you know we can all ask some questions but

054it has to be fixed. You can't have this. You can't have it because it it and it's not a matter of of of sometimes of if it's when. And the softer the target becomes an issue. Small towns, we think it can't happen here in Matthew. You just have to be real careful. A lot of it stay, you know. I love us. >> We all do. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. >> Oh, you got a problem on I don't care what what the problem is. It's going to involve this. How do you know those volunteers are going to be the people you want? >> Background checks only so good to a point. >> Okay, we have auxiliary police within the county now. They're the people you want to use, but I never hear them brought up. Okay,

055but everything comes down to this. I don't have a problem with that as long as the superintendent doesn't. >> Do we have another person who'd like to approach the podium who has not spoken yet? >> All right. There being none, we will start over. If there's anyone who has spoken who would like to speak again, you have up to you may ask up to two questions additionally to your first one. I think we have someone approaching, but let's have Miss Monu go first and then Miss Bohannon Stewart. >> I hope you treat my partner who is an attorney kinder than you've treated me. have been banned from working in the school system because I made negative comments about the district and that's in writing. Don't worry, there won't be litigation because I love the school

056system. I started 1985 was working as a volunteer for 10 years. Back then I was with Mr. Harry Ward who knew how to get things done >> and a very bright woman, Dr. Mary Ellison, who knew instruction, knew how to teachers, knew what the world needed to do when people weren't performing. And I miss 20 months ago when I came to you as an experienced educator experience as a school administrator and I said to you we have this problem that students are not getting resources they need to be successful 20 months ago and now superintendent Daniel saying we're two weeks away from Well, I bet someone made a call to you this morning and I bet it was like the librarian at the high school because diddly dink has been done in the last 20

057months about getting our students what they need. Harry Ward was a man of action. Dr. Hson knew her stuff and she made sure the students here had everything they needed to be successful. And I'm lecturing you and I'm I'm just sad. When I came here as a volunteer, I was I was at le Jackson and I was covering the clinic and six student I actually wasn't covering. I was working in a classroom. I was sent was sent to a company of students to the clinic. There was no nurse called Harry Ward. Harry Ward was there in 10 minutes. I said, "You guys are wide open for litigation. All you need is a student. Aspirate call. the system. You know what Harry Ward did? Within two weeks he hired a nurse. You all remember that you've

058been here a while. I've run after school enrichment programs Thomas Hunter. I started Odyssey the mind and I had been rejected from this school system and you're still advertising for substitute teachers qualified substitute teachers. I'd like to know Dr. Daniel what you consider a qualified substitute teacher. Is that your question, Miss Montigue? >> So, we've contracted the substitute service out to ESS. Um, so the qualifications are going to run the gamut. Ideally, we're going to have somebody who's a certified teacher, um, who works well with students, who follows school-based protocols, um, who is able to kind of pick up lessons that substitute lessons or emergency lesson plans, um, to be able to work with students. Availability is kind of key. So there's, you know, there's a number of things that would go into that. Um,

059are you aware that this school board filed an incident report against a qualified certified teacher with administrative experience before she even worked one day, although she had three scheduled, she was removed by this school district false information said she had a history of accepting jobs and not showing up. Followup phone call said no, that wasn't the reason. She's not allowed to work in Matthews County schools because she has made comments publicly about the school system. >> I'm not aware of that situation, but I'm not going to speak to my attorney about that. I'm also not going to get into like specific personnel individuals and >> I understand. >> Okay. >> You're asking for qualified substitutes and yet if someone criticizes this school system, you fire them. Think about it. >> Thank you, Miss Monu. Miss

060Bohannan Stewart. So, um, in terms of safety, I think it pretty certain it was July, the July school board meeting, not the August school board meeting where Sheriff Edwards came in clearly laid out while she was um, dissolving the SRO program. Um, but my question is is kind of related to safety. um how long because we have some things we're contracting out now and I want to know how long the contracts are with the c the company we're using for custodial services believe that's HS and the company that we're using to contract with get the subs in ESS how long are those contracts with those companies >> those are one-year contracts renewable for four four more years >> so they're re-evaluated each Okay, thank you. Um, >> you have a two minute a two-minute response

061to that. >> Okay, thank you. Um, I do feel like we are better off with custodians that are a part of our community. I view it as even part of Matthew's culture as well as the safety issue. um you know in Matthews for years you go to school and you grew up with custodians that knew all the kids that you know you saw around the community and they lived here and they were here and reliable for years and I often worked late and I um was a single parent and my daughter was often here with me late and I always felt safe staying late and working late because Mr. Buu was here and Mr. Cleo was here and, you know, had no problems letting my child play in the hallway when when they were around.

062Um, and I I think it's better when we hire our own people for safety reasons and just for that's the right thing to do. We we need their services, you know, uh let's let's pay them fairly and give them the same benefits as all the other staff. And I think it would be better if we used our own subs and the ladies in the front office that know the people were the ones that were finding the subs as we had before. I worked in a school system where neither of those things worked out well last year. And another safety thing, um, one one thing I did notice at at New Kent Middle School, I believe they had signs on every door to the outside reminding teachers and students because hey, we all want to be

063nice and open the door for somebody that looks like they need to come in. But, you know, maybe just a simple sign on all the doors um, you know, to remind people, hey, we know you have a good nature, but you can't let anybody in. that might be something that that could be done just quickly and easily to to maybe prevent the propping open door issue and stuff. So anyway, that's all I have to say. >> Thank you, Miss Bohannister. >> I would just Mr. Mo. So um we've in terms of fill rates for subs um the last measure that I've received was we've [clears throat] filled 110 out of 113 um sub vacancy vacant positions. Um to my knowledge um we've I think the three vacancies were TA positions. Um actually two may have

064been a TA and one was the nurse. I think there was a day I think the the nurse um we had a difficulty with with the nur No, I think it was our our teacher. So So we've had um again 110 fills out of 113 total vacancies at that time. the challenge um remains when it's less than a half a day. And so that's where kind of that that struggle has been in folks picking up either a half day position or um what we're trying to work through right now is where teachers really just need to leave for an hour and getting coverage for that that hour time frame to fill rates. So, we've in terms of overall success and getting Phil, okay, just just if that's the bar for success is is Phil and

065that's somewhat of a low bar. Um, it's it's been a successful venture um getting that out. Um, with regards to custodial contract, we I do an internal sort of climate survey. Um and the overall it's been positive feedback in terms of the contract with HS and cleanliness. That's it's not it hasn't been universal um by any stretch. So um but I think kind of a general consensus is the the high school seems to be [snorts] a bit more pleased, the elementary school not as pleased with um where the services um have been. HS has been very responsive to us where concerns have arisen. Um they I don't know if you well yeah I guess you were here Tuesday night for their presentation to kind of talk a little bit about the influx of equipment and

066um improvements that they've made and and so they're working through some of some of the the challenges. I think some of the dis the bit of the dissatisfaction at the elementary school relates to the amount of renovation work um at that building. did not leave enough time for deep cleaning of the elementary school prior to teachers coming back and kids coming back. So, they weren't able to spend the amount of time they really wanted to. I anticipate them scheduling time over Thanksgiving and Christmas to go back to some of those spaces that didn't get the attention that they wanted them to do. So just kind of a overview, but we have um I think the again the HS rep Tuesday night talked about our our meeting coming up on November 18th to talk about satisfaction

067midpoints or every quarter making sure that we're satisfied, what changes, what adjustments need to need to be made with that. >> Okay. Um thank you for that explanation. Um the the issues that I've heard of with it so far in this system don't have much to do with fill rates, but more like people not getting credit for what they've done or struggling to get the right number of days in the system that they actually worked in. So, but I'm glad you're not having trouble filling them. Um, on the days that that you can't fill a half a day or an hour, that's a perfect time for an administrator to step in and sub once a month, especially if a teacher has to leave for just an hour or half a day. So, thank you. >>

068You're welcome. >> Thank you, Miss Bohannon Stewart. >> Is there anyone else who would like to ask an additional question? Have a first time. Donna, Donna [clears throat] Machin, Foster, Virginia. Um, as I was walking in the doors, I was noticing the gun-free sign on the school. And when I come in and I sit down, I'm aware that unlike um some of the buildings um the historic courthouse where people are allowed to carry um I didn't feel as safe coming in here because like um this gentleman said, it is an unsafe environment not to have anybody here to protect you if a mass murderer walked in the door. Um my children and I, my husband, we've all taken courses on what to do, look for the exits. We all know what to do. you have

069trained your teachers to know what to do, but looking ahead at the way the culture is going. Um, I want to know what each of your thoughts are. Anyone who's willing to volunteer, what are your thoughts on are on training the teachers, those that are willing and wanting to training them to defend their students, get their training, get their license, get their background checks, and the teachers who love those students who are with them day in and day out. give them an opportunity to protect their own students if somebody walks in their classroom. And if it were known that there are even some classrooms where there is a a a defense weapon there, then there would be people thinking about whether they would want to take that action and receive that consequence. Um, I know

070there are states like Florida who allow that and I know our state has a long way to go before 2A rights are respected, but in this county you can average citizen who is proven trustworthy and especially the teachers who you trust. What are your thoughts on giving them the opportunity to protect themselves and the students? There is real risk here. You can't go into Walmart without knowing that you're at risk. I agree. I think but it's a complicated question. It's a very um I can think of scenarios on both sides that would um have me take a different position and I don't like to do that. I like to have a clear position, but on that one I can see where uh there could be there's room for uh extreme problems with a carry uh

071and with not carrying that. I would entertain a conversation though with our sheriff's department and with our county um and of course the board and the citizens on that. It's I don't think it's a simple um answer. You have it's a very requires a lot of thought and working out a lot of scenarios in your mind u with what could happen on either side of that. Um I agree with her comment as a previous teacher um in Gloucester County primarily subbing here and listening to what has been going on in our country with school shootings and knowing a lot of the teachers here in this county. I believe that each one of them would do everything in their power to keep their child, their children, and their classroom safe. I personally would have reservations about

072going forward with individual teachers carrying a firearm. I believe very much that we must have SRO's in our schools. I think that is a main deterrent. I would hope it would be, but it is it is a good question that you ask and we as you hear people here tonight, we are concerned as well. Thank you. >> Um, am I allowed to respond back? Has everybody spoken that wants to? >> Split a few more people if they have things to say and then you you do have two more minutes. [clears throat] Anybody else down the line? >> Thank you for raising the question. Um, I think as both my colleagues have mentioned, it's it's a complicated issue as I think through the scenarios. I I just think if if there was someone that came in

073with a gun and it and it probably would be um a military style weapon, I think that teachers couldn't move fast enough to unlock whatever they needed to unlock to access the gun to be able to get it out to do anything plus having to keep their children safe and get them where they need to do. I see it as more of a um an accident happening with the students with the gun that I'm open to a conversation as Dr. Dr. Gibbs said. I'd like to hear the other side of it. Um what I have not done, I'd like to do some research to see when they what school divisions have had it and have there been any accidents, have there have been any successes. I just don't know enough about it. But my first

074gut response is I just see that it's it there's too many moving parts for a teacher in that moment to be able to access a gun that's probably locked up at the same time simultaneously trying to keep her children safe. And that's to me a a formula for more more people being hurt or or dying. I think the first step I I believe [clears throat] there's some code language within Virginia's state code that prohibits um non-law enforcement or retired law enforcement from being able to have um weapons on school property. So the first hurdle to that would be the code of Virginia changing to allow that. Um the second piece I believe um Florida's policy allows for retired police officers or I think the caveat is if you then get certified as a teacher, you

075have to go through that law enforcement training um initially and then repeat that training each summer to continue to have that I guess authority as as a teacher to um have a have a weapon. So I think we can have those have those conversations once the state code sort of opens that up. I think the sweet spot is then looking at school security officers, not school resource officers. And you can if we are able to attract retired law enforcement to be school security officers, they would have that legal authority to be um armed and and work in the school work in the school buildings. Um again, it's finding that that window. Um, the SRO grants couples with an SSO grant as well to begin those programs. But again, you would need to be currently a

076retired law enforcement. I guess you could if it's part-time or something like active law enforcement or I don't know about the auxiliary um criteria in order to be that school security officer. And then the school security officers actually are employees of the school division whereas school resource officers are employees of the sheriff's office. So that that kind of helps a little bit of that that line and also that payroll piece as to who's whose funding who's supporting whose budget um does it does it come from. So I think we're >> Mr. Doson. >> Well, the state of Virginia, if you want to get a carry permit, if you're exmilitary, you don't have to take the course. So, you have another resource group of people there to draw upon. Uh, military is hell on safety when

077it comes to weapons. So, you got a person that knows safety. Now, I'm not going to say you got a person that can be vented because you probably would weed some people out regardless, but that's another source of people they could possibly draw from. >> Any other comments? Makes >> go ahead. Please, >> I started to make this comment on Tuesday evening at one point, but I did not. My father was a hunter. We had lots of hunters in our family and I believe in that amendment. Certainly, I believe that the school shootings that we know about today that have been happening for years I thought after um the one in Connecticut with the elementary children, I thought that a ban would be made on these assault weapons. And today in 2025, we still do

078not have that. And I think that is a huge failing within our country for safety of our children and students and people across the board. And that worries me considerably because as Miss Hajger said, someone coming in that door probably would not have a small weapon. And that is another concern of mine for a teacher carrying or being able to carry within the school system. Thank you, >> Mr. Morgan. >> Yes. Um, just a couple of quick comments. I'm no expert on security by any means, but I do have a little bit of knowledge and a little bit of experience u having worked over in the hospital as a security officer for a period of time. Um, to me, in my opinion, when you put a sign on your door that says gun-free zone, what

079you're what you're telling people is there's no one in here that can defend themselves or anyone else. So, I'm not real sure that advertising the fact that you're defenseless is necessarily a good idea. Um, we could debate that all night. I know. As far as arming teachers or any other staff, it's tricky. As I believe Miss Hajes said, a lot of moving parts, a lot of questions, a lot of whatifs. I get it. I do get it. However, we don't have any problem whatsoever allowing law enforcement in our buildings armed. No problem at all. We don't seem to be least bit worried, concerned, afraid, or anything else. What makes those officers so special? Training. And they're not the only people in the world that can be trained. Would I um suggest or support just arming

080teachers at random? No. Absolutely not. It would require very extensive training. Not everyone is going to be willing. It's it's it's not for everybody. It's not for everybody. But if someone was willing, teacher or any other staff member or for that matter as Dr. Daniel had saw brought up numerous times a school security officer. If that person was willing to go through the extensive training, get all the background clearances, everything just like a police officer, only you're not a public servant. You're a protectant protector of the schools. I would have no problem with that. And annual training refresher courses. I know even police officers, they have to go to the gun range every so often and qualify. They have to and God forbid what we ever had to use that. But I just have to

081ask this one question. Is it such a risk and so uncertain to properly train our own staff? Does that risk or that fear outweigh protecting our children? Because you put one SRO in the schools or two or three, they can't be everywhere at one time. So, Miss Mason, to answer your question, I would certainly entertain that idea. um would come with lots of caveats, of course, um lots of training, lots lots of background check, lots of all that good stuff, but I would not write it off simply because I was afraid of the liability. >> Mrs. I just looked at some things up and um I'm going to quote some of them. Um and this is out of Texas. One of the most candid conversations we have had school districts is when an officer shows

082up and doesn't know if you're the good guy or the bad guy, he's not going to ask any questions. The other thing it talks about, and I want to make sure I get this accurate, is talking about even the most highly trained law enforcement officers in the country see that their ability to shoot accurately uh decreased significantly in an active shooter situation. So here we have the most trained that they're not in an active shooter situation. They um their accuracy has diminished. So here we're asking teachers with less training to possibly take on some of these roles. I just see it being um more people getting hurt hurt is is how I see it. But I but I would like to hear more about it if that's the the direction the board wants to go.

083a robust conversation. >> Absolutely. Miss Mason, you have two minutes to respond. >> We're we're already in a situation where we're all at risk >> every day. >> And the risk is getting greater. If you um have had a chance to take that course, they showed years ago there was a, you know, one flash on the map, you know, a shooting here, a shooting here, a shooting here. And now it's going off like fireworks. Okay? And it's only going to get worse until something changes in the moral fiber of our nation. Um, until we can do more, shouldn't we do the least we can? Shouldn't we do something with the door right now? If it were me tomorrow morning, I would I'd be making calls. I'd be making calls. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss

084Man. >> [snorts] >> Clark, second second question. I've got that right. >> I would just like to say who are school shooters? Median age is 16. The youngest has been six years old. Two six-year-old school shooters. one killed a classmate in Highland Ranch, Colorado during the STEM school shooting to it was one of the um rarer pairs of shooters. A deputy actually shot a student. The student survived with minor injuries, but in with the gunfire going off, Molotov cocktails had been set off in the hallways, a student was shot by a deputy and he still horrible to this day about it and said that he just couldn't live with himself if the child had died because this was a an innocent child running to safety. When a a gun-free zone sign is not going to

085stop a school shooter because most school shooters are students and current students. The intruder shooters are more rare. Most more than 80% 85 and up% is handguns. the the media really likes to embellish these uh sensational stories. And I talked to a reporter once who told me they make lots of money off of school shootings that whenever there's a a uh AK-47 assault rifle is used, that gets all the headlines, but more handguns are used in school shootings. We don't even hear about most of the school shootings because they're not sensational enough. So, we can't go by just what we hear on the news. Um, Bill Johnson, who was here a minute ago, mentioned after action reviews and incident reviews. There are some very good ones for free online. One was by um the Arapjo,

086Colorado school shooting. That incident review is available online. They were very forthcoming and admitted all of their mistakes, what they should have done, what they could have done. And so, this is one of the best afteraction reviews that are out there. And that's like the inba saying if there's ever any kind of I've studied every rabbit hole up and down for almost 30 years. And so when I'm hearing somebody talking it's sending off little dings in my head. So that's what I wanted to mention about you know would a teacher be able to shoot a child? Um and then Miss Hodgees made >> Clark I'm sorry to interrupt you two minute but do we have some feedback from Miss Clark regarding her her her comments. Thank you. >> Thank you. Yeah, you >> salient point.

087>> Yeah, I just wanted to mention Miss Hodgees had mentioned about the AK-47 uh 57s and such that um yeah, she's right. There's a lot of moving parts in in that and a small handgun is not going to stop that. A one real life scenario, a 13-year-old was taking a asked to go to the bathroom. There was nobody in the hallways. He went to his locker, got two handguns, walked back to his class, shot the teacher, and shot us another student. It happened just that fast. There's no way that teacher could have gotten up and unlocked the gun. >> Thank you, Miss Clark. >> Sharon, sorry. Port Haywood. Um, this is a schoolboard meeting. I feel like it's been a safety meeting. Um, but what I'm concerned about are the children's scores. I'm really, really

088concerned about our children's scores. This lady talked about our children doing research. Before they can re do research, they have to be able to read. My question is, why? Why can't we get our scores up? I sit at home and I think, how can we motivate these children? How can we motivate them? I had a little conversation with Dr. Daniel the other evening and I'm saying, "Do the teachers require book reports? Do the teachers ask for essays? Do the teachers give them homework? Do y'all check on what the teachers are doing? I'm told that these these students according to grade level can only have so many minutes of homework an evening because of our Virginia State Board of Education. My question is like Mr. Morgan said the other night, "How come we could add two

089and two and we could read in a in a classroom of 30 students?" I never had less than 30 30 students in my class from kindergarten to 8th grade and I can read and write. Why can't our children Are we looking at book reports? Mi um Miss Gibbs always talks about achievement, achievement, achievement. This is what I want too. And if you could I I volunteered four years ago. I have been vetted. I have not been called the first time to help with anything. And I am quite um proficient. I love children. I can really do well with children, but I haven't been called and other volunteers, my friends haven't been called either. We have been vetted. But if there's anything I can do to help these children get motivated, write book reports, write essays.

090We're not teaching critical thinking. They can't even add two and two. And that is another question I have. You Dr. Daniel said something about the SOS. I know my two minutes is up. Solos don't ask the children for two and two. They ask a complicated question. My question is why? Don't you all want to know why? I just want simple math. >> Thank you, Miss Fry. I think I I agree with you. That's the the ultimate question. Why? >> What is so difficult? What is so different now from when we were in school? And I would say everything. But the qu the question is how so what how do we make it happen? That is that's what we have to do. So I think that we are on a path and others can chime in

091on this and Dr. Daniel will have something to say. In my opinion, the first thing is realizing where we are. We're we're really at the beginning of understanding where the children are and then being able to address their needs. I don't believe that was done satisfactoryy in the past in this division to at great length. That is my personal opinion. Um, I believe we are on a path because we have a leader who believes that we need to do that and that everyone is doing it with extreme with everything they've got, but we are up against some incredible obstacles for implementation. I think uh the world has changed, schools have changed. uh there it the school environment is unrecognizable compared to when you and I were in school doesn't matter. We still need to do

092this. So we this board is dedicated to doing it. We are trying. I worry about it every day and I'm I am sure that this entire board and admin worries about it every day. We feel strongly about it just like you do. If we had the easy answer, it would have been done. >> Do they do book reports? Are they given homework? >> Yes. I mean, the book report piece, as you and I were talking about Tuesday afternoon, like so we have to follow the Virginia Literacy Act, which really structures like what the reading program is. We have to follow what state approved high quality instructional materials. HQIM is a state kind of category. So we're required to implement um code of Virginia, Virginia literacy act and textbook procedures that is are and those that

093act is quite regulated and structured as to specific lessons and timelines and what we can do. kind of the independent book report of of old is not part of that that science of reading is not part of the HQIM process that we are mandated to follow. >> So they they are not required to read a book and write a report because the Virginia Education Department said they can't. >> It's not part of the HQIM. I mean it's not part of that the regular instructional progress or process. >> Doesn't that put up a red flag up? Doesn't that make a red flag? >> Again, like there's only so much wiggle room we have. Like we're following we're following law. We're following the state law as to what we have to do. >> Isn't that sad? That's

094how come more people are homeschooling. They're dumbing our children down. When you get a child to read a book, you want a report. You want some critical thinking of what they thought they read. This is sad. I would just I would I don't want to again I feel like I'm doing all the talking but um I just while the star data from Tuesday night was not impressive that's one piece of data I mentioned like triangulating data. So over the over the last five years our reading performance has increased. So there are gains being made. Last year's pass rates for Matthews in reading exceed the state average. So like >> wasn't it 67 >> for reading? No. >> Yeah. I don't have the exact I'm looking at bar bar graphs. So I'm looking at kind of

095what I don't >> and to me those bar graphs are like word salad. So okay >> I have trouble with those but I did I did see >> but in terms of kind of where are we where we want to be? No, our strategic plan is to be at 90%. So that's a five-year goal to get us to 90% and trying to get incremental year by year trying to get 5%ish um growth. But in the la over the last five years, we're above where we were five years ago. The same is true in mathematics. Again, are we at that 90%? We are not there. But to say like we are making gains. Um progress is being made. There are massive gains in third grade reading. Um various other places with math. Our um elementary school

096and and middle school are making the greatest gains in reading and math performance. Um the high school will begin to see that as higher skills are metriculating um up the grade levels. Um but you're we're building kind of background and foundational um foundational skills. It it takes time to see all of those efforts to fruition. Um and again, we're we're also at the um at the at the will of the state as to what we can do and what we are required to do um in terms of instruction and what programs we have to offer. kind of what we had talked about Tuesday afternoon as well or Tuesday after the meeting is that we are anticipating a similar um HQIM for mathematics. We've been awaiting approved textbooks from the state in mathematics that has been

097delayed. Well, I guess they there's a tenative list um now. So, we'll be going through the the mathematics textbook adoption process. So again, it's the state says you have to do X, but we're not telling. So it's it's a constant reaction that we're trying to um adjust to. So, but we're it's it's getting better. It's not at the rate we want it to, but we're getting there. And I think one of one of my goals and is probably one of the areas that is easy to criticize is the amount of data and what is the data showing and and working through that. Um, we're trying to be my goal and the board's goal is to be open and honest and transparent about how are how are our kids doing and performing and where where the

098weaknesses are and where are we working on to address those. So that's that's in the in the academic realm. We've talked a lot tonight about the safety realm and you know we've we are deficiencies are in that safety process. So It would probably be easier if we didn't share as much information and sort of like just just told you once a year. >> Good. At least we know where we are and where we need to be and we can pray on that. That's >> right. >> Thank you. >> Mistakes. >> Okay. Um, this has been a couple of years ago when I was substituting, but one fourth grade classroom that I regularly subbed in, I read to the children every day at least once. And when I was doing the long-term sub twice in third

099grade, we had the teacher had the um class broken down into reading groups that I rotated to me and they were on point on what they were supposed to be doing in those specific reading groups, trying to get them up. just to let you know, I don't know what it is today, but what it was a couple of years ago um was encouraging as far as reading to me. >> Now, do y'all check do y'all go in into the schools and see what the teachers are doing? See if they're having rooting groups, seeing what they're doing as a school board member. >> I go ahead. >> I personally think that that's the role of the principal. I don't think for me to walk in a classroom to see what's going on and in in that

100given moment is going to give me much information to carry away that's either correct or incorrect. So I rely on the principles who are in the school in the classrooms regularly. Um, I have to tr we have to trust them. >> Again, for me to show for me to go into a classroom >> look in the door. >> For me to go into a classroom and then they don't have a reading group because they're doing something else doesn't mean that they're not doing what they need to do. Um, and that's I don't believe that's the role of schoolboard member. That's my opinion. My colleagues may be differentes everything. I would like to get back to what I've heard over and over again about when we were in school, children all learned to read. And I

101don't think that is accurate. We did not keep track of where students were, how many didn't finish school and dropped out before high school. We didn't keep track of who was reading on what level at any given grade. The only thing that I recall is those Iowa tests that you would take until you got to the PSATs and the SATs. There was not this kind of scrutiny on school divisions until 2000. Um, and when Mr. Bush came in and No Child Left Behind, that's when it began. And so I I think it's not fair to say that children all learned to read back in the 50s and 60s and before then and I've said before my husband would tell me all the time so and so dropped out of school at this age, so and

102so didn't come back to fifth grade. So and so then this. So there's many, many people, and we also know from adult literacy, there are many people in our communities that do not read at all. So I don't want to you know because our friends read and our groups read that everybody that came through school then but the difficulty now is the scrutiny and not just the scrutiny from any year to year and then they change the tests. The teachers learn what to teach and this and the department of education says oh now we're going to change what we're testing you on. So, it's a it's a moving target at every given point. Not to say that we we don't need to do our due diligence, but it's just makes it increasingly more challenging for

103for those test scores to be where we want them to be. It's just a incredibly moving target and for our teachers is incredibly changing from year to year about what's expected from them. Thank you. I grew up in the 50s and 60s and every single year from first grade to 8th grade, we had to take a state board test. If we didn't pass that test, we were retained in this that in the in that grade. New York. >> Thank you, Mrs. Fry. Is there anyone else who would like to approach State my name again Raider. So I heard uh Mr. Dobson was talking about money and school didn't have the money. I'm not going to preach my pedigree but I love numbers. Love them. So we have a superintendent, an assistant superintendent and a CFO,

104which was my previous title. A good CFO can write their salary by the amount of money they can save a school system or any company. And my wife was able to spend 15 years in the public employment, but first she had to get out. She was sick. So go on down. a executive assistant and a secretary. I work in private sector. I know that the leaner the administration is, the better a company can run. Much more efficient. So, I don't know why when we don't have money for security, we have over half a million dollars in payroll in an administrative building that is more secure than our school system. Keeps the doors locked. Can't even walk in the place. When you did your uh volleyball, the door was propped open with a rug that I

105took a picture of. No one was manning the door. No SRO, no nothing. Anybody could have whole the whole faculty was in there. They could have had a field day with you. But half a million dollars of payroll in a building that stays locked all day to the public, more secure than our children's schools are. So half a million dollars There's money for your SRO's, for your SSOs, for training, teachers, all kinds of things if you trim that up some. >> Do you have a question to add to that? Or >> why do we need to have so much money in one building >> for the size of a school system? We have students. It just doesn't make sense to me why you have superintendent, an assistant superintendent, an executive assistant, a secretary and a

106CFO. But the level of management in one building for a school system so small would never fly in the private sector. As we compare even to like-siz divisions, we are we are the leanest >> um of comparable school divisions in terms of the amount of staff. The number of state reports and reporting that we have to do is the same as a Virginia Beach, a Henriiko allowed and a Prince William. Um that requires um time and pieces and just things we have to do. The assistant superintendent is also our division director of testing. She is the director of human resources. Um she's also in compliance um in terms of policies and state code. Most other school divisions those are additional staffed positions. a lot of our um payroll expense is that we have experienced people

107in those upper level positions who have been in those positions for in some cases decades. So as you've you get towards the end of your career, you're making more than somebody who was in the first year of of that position. I know it's I mean >> I know >> we don't agree. I mean I I >> I know what you're talking about. I know exactly what you're talking about. To me it doesn't make sense. Okay. >> Anybody on the outside is going to look at it and say, "Why?" >> Now, I get it. >> I hear you. Um, I retired from Gloucester 10 years ago and I know what figure I was making when I retired and it doesn't u hold a candle to what people are making now and it's a different day. But

108I was going to address um Mrs. Montigue who has already left. Um but I I want to say to those that are here in my second year now on this board um I have been in the school board office. I've been in the schools but particularly I knew Harry Ward and I still know Mary Hollison. They were wonderful, wonderful leaders. I admired them very much. They got things done. Um, but in my time on this board, I have seen the dedication of [snorts] Dr. Daniels and the people in that office that have multiple things to do. I don't ever go in there when somebody's sitting back with their feet propped up. They are always dedicated to the job they're doing. and they have been extremely helpful to me because I needed it. Still do. But

109and I believe that each person on this board has is trying to do the best job that they can for you all. And I I'm so glad. I know it's a small group here tonight, but you all are genuine genuinely interested in what is going on. And Lord knows we are too. But I just want to say I I've seen a level of dedication in Dr. Daniels um and in the other people in the office and and others here, the work ethic is is immense. And anybody who's paid attention this summer when the kids were out of school, the work that has been done on this building in particular, but the other two as well to get them better than they have been, it's astronomical and I'm I'm delighted with it and my hat is

110off to you. I >> I've had good interactions with Dr. Daniel, all of you really individually. I can't fault anyone. I think y'all know me very well. >> Well, a lot of people a lot of people don't see what goes on. Okay, we got the superintendent, the assistant. You got five people in a hedge. Five people. And all I ever hear is they're overpaid. They're overpaid. When you look around the other school districts and you see what people are getting paid, we don't have an overpay. We got below average in most cases. The problem is we can't go out and hire the ones that want another 60,000 on top of it. We have to hire and go a little bit more in order to get what we want. It's the same with teachers. You look

111around the district, we're the lowest paid when it comes to paying teachers. It's because we don't have the money. You have to remember where the money comes from. All right? And until they change the way they fund schools, we're going to be operating the way we are. I don't care who who's sitting on the board or who you got. You can only go so much. And I don't see this changing anytime soon unless they change the way that they collect the money for us to have education. Okay? You can't like our it's based on the value of the land, but then you have to look at the people that are living here. And when you have 40% below poverty level, you're paying a lot more money because 40% of the people can't pay. So you

112have always have to keep that in the back of your mind. And then the second thing is you don't want to you really don't want to be the lowest man on the totem pole because you ain't going to get people. Luckily, we fluctuated enough and the superintendent has had good powers of bringing some good people here. at the wages we pay. >> And I don't see how you can get around it. And it's going to get worse before it gets better. You thought last year was bad. Wait till we try again this year. And we got to work with the with the superintendent then. And these two SRO officers, I believe, to start out is going to cost $300,000. That's a lot of money. We were fighting over 10 cents last year. So trying to

113fight over 300,000 is even going to be worse. But we got to [clears throat] have it. So you're going to have to make some sacrifices somewhere. this I sit here and I listen all the time about how expensive the head shed is and it is not it's like anything else people at the higher grade it's going to cost you more money you can't get around it so you we uh we just it it's it's one of those things that's fire department because he comes in and goes was, man, we're doing good and next week the bottom fell out. And uh that's a job I wouldn't want myself. >> Fire department. >> The issue is you have these positions for a low number of students. So it's maybe that they're not needed. It's that the it's

114not diluted enough by the number of people in the school system. >> But the problem is >> I'm agreeing with you. >> Yeah. Okay. >> [clears throat] >> Thank you, Mr. One more question for Miss Bohannan Stewart. Um, I mentioned Tuesday night that I was concerned that we were still hemorrhaging staff. Um, and that the main reason for hemorrhaging staff was lack of support. Um, I know paying people fairly is is important, but so is feeling supported. And um you know I know many of the people well that have left and I was one of the people that left and bled out and I left because of crazy workload and lack of support. Um what steps are you taking to stop hemorrhaging staff? >> Thank you Miss Bohan Stewart. I would just have to say

115before you answer Dr. Daniel that I disagree with the use of the term hemorrhaging staff. that that is not an accurate representation or metaphor for the situation and I I look forward to Dr. Daniel informing us of the status of our uh of our staff. >> Um I don't have the exact numbers of um staff turnover, but I would agree with Dr. Gibbs in terms of um hemorrhaging staff. I think what um and I think another question that I would bring up is I think support means something very different depending on that staff member. So support may be for some staff members just give me the materials and leave me alone. staff for support for somebody else may be, hey, I really need you to come into my room and provide feedback on how I'm

116doing or I need um a mentor teacher to collaborate with or I need a stronger team of co- um co-teers on on my grade level. um support may be I need a teacher assistant to come in and work with that child who I'm not able to yet manage their behaviors. Um support could be so I say all that to say that support is a somewhat nebulous term and is difficult to nail down depending on um what the teacher um the teacher is looking for. what what things we've done in the past is we've gotten feedback again doing a a climate survey um in terms of discipline support. So how are we um responding to um discipline infractions? So we initiated a divisionwide code of conduct that for administrators to have um a leveled response for

117um infractions. We've worked with principles to develop schoolwide tier one behavioral expectations that is growing and improving, but that way every teacher has common language and common understanding of what is expected for classroom practices. Um we've worked with um our federal director of federal programs um and gifted services. She's also overseeing a lot of the professional development initiatives to target mentor programs, targeted professional development for um teachers in terms of instructional practices as SOS have evolved um and Virginia Literacy Act has evolved. So, we're trying to be more targeted about professional development programs um staying ahead of like Canvas implementation. So, we've got two staff members who were working to be the leads in piloting um the training for Canvas implementation down the road. Uh we did kind of the same with Mastery Connect um

118last year, giving teachers kind of a sixmonthish head start um as to kind of where they are going. Um I have a faculty and staff advisory committee meeting to solicit feedback from from staff on a pretty regular basis. Again, that survey goes out for um staff members to be able to communicate um here are our concerns. I share that with um I go to the the faculty a faculty meeting at each school and kind of share those results with um with the faculty members to get their feedback. So, and like we've had we've had an older faculty, a lot of those folks have retired. Um, I will also say that the teaching expectation, I think you've alluded to it many times in your communications postcoid is very different than precoid. Um, Matthews is not unique

119in having staff members leave the profession. I think a lot of staff members have sought greener pastures elsewhere. Some of those have found them. Some of those have realized that there's like teaching is teaching. It's it's difficult work. Um especially after COVID, especially with state regulations and expectations and it being a bottleneck for um society's cultural friction these days. So we're we're doing any number of things. things I know, Miss Hunley, when folks leave, there's an exit survey that we go back and look at that data to make um decisions about, okay, what do we need to do differently? How do we need to tweak? Um some of the staffing concerns we've um brought up, like one of my frequent when we go into budget season is comparing our salary scale to other folks salary

120scales. Um we've um we are working with what I would say is a thought partner um to adjust our salary scales or well I mean to review our salary scales to see what we need to do to make sure that we're competitive and that we're transparent about what we're doing in terms of compensation for folks. So I mean it's it's multifaceted. There are multiple things that are going on. Um but I think there's also too the students that um we are experiencing a student population of higher need that requires and sometimes different skill sets that require sometimes different training. Sometimes it's been requiring additional people. So we're working to adapt our school division to meet the needs of the kids who are coming in. And that's, you know, teachers are seeking and asking for that

121support. So I mean know if anybody else on the board wants to add to that, but I feel like we're we're we're attempting to do various things to meet the varying definition of what support means to people. >> I just have a couple things. First, I think there were less teachers that left last year than the year prior. So um we're moving in the right direction. Secondly, we are undergoing a lot of change in a lot of ways but but the but primarily um it's because we have less students. So the way that um we have assigned teachers over the last four to five years has changed and that's been very difficult. um where some people some teachers have to teach two topics when they didn't have to do that several years ago and and

122you know some of the things that have that we've tried have not been successful and in adapting to this these less students some have been successful um and I and there's going to be more change I mean I don't know how else to say it we are going to go through more change trying to um respond to less students be more financially efficient in how we hire our teachers and how they teach. Um, and and some people don't like change. That's very very difficult if they've taught for 20 years and to make a change after 20 years is very difficult and I get that. Um, but that I think we're moving in the right direction as far as less teachers leaving. Um, I think thank you for your point about Um each individual teacher has

123different needs as far as what support is. That's very individual. But change is going to continue. Um hopefully, you know, we can figure it out what's working and not have to keep making um broad stroke changes. But as we merge two schools, there's going to be more change. I wish I could. I wish it wasn't. And as the um curriculums change, there's going to be more change. Um, I didn't teach didn't substitute here at Thomas Hunter as much as I did over at the elementary school. And I I see when I did uh sub here, I saw much more challenging students because of the age probably and backgrounds perhaps and so forth. All of those things add up. um than I saw at the other school. We had challenges over there with behaviors as well

124and so forth. But I as I listened on Tuesday night, the word you chose, as Dr. Gibbs said, on hemorrhaging, I I didn't um I had trouble with that word. I had great trouble with that word um because I have not heard I've heard yeah we need to change this, we need to change that. But overall, I think the teachers are have have been responding at least to me positively for the most part. And I know a lot of them and as as Miss Hodes just said, we do have loads of challenges, but I I don't hear the negative, I guess, as much as you have heard it. And um and I'm I'm glad I haven't heard that as much. I I just hope and pray we continue to grow in the right direction. >>

125I love to use science words whenever possible and I was trying to convey that we've lost lots of people. I worked in the school system for a long time and it just seemed like we we've lost tons of people in the last few years compared to past years and I like I said I was one of them. Um the school that I worked at last year did not have the turnover that we did. I was one of the few that left New Kent Middle School last year and and most teachers there seem to be relatively happy. Um, I'm concerned that we've gotten rid of some things that are, I would say, relatively low cost that help with teacher workload and make teachers feel supported like math teachers. I I asked a question about at a

126town hall meeting last year and Dr. Daniel said something like it wasn't really fully utilized and then I went and questioned the math teachers and they're like, we we used it. I don't know why we got rid of it. Um, and of course I don't want technology to be overused, okay? But I thought always thought that was used appropriately. It gave students immediate feedback um on how whether or not they were doing something right and allowed you to differentiate for everybody in the same room at the same time. Ones that were mastering something quickly could go on to a new level, higher level of thinking with more challenging problems. And um I got to use a program last year at New Camp Middle School called Quizzes. Now it's called Wayground. And I credit that as

127one of the the things that helped make my workload as reasonable as possible, but also was great at helping me give students practice so questions that mimicked the types of things they would experience on the so test. And it was also easy to grade. We did that for bell work. Now, I wouldn't want teachers to start giving tons of homework on quizzes. It's online. I don't want technology overused. But that's another program that would make it easy for a teacher to give a test that makes that mimics so test questions. So, it probably help with student achievement. Not I think it would help with student achievement, help with student achievement where I taught last year. Um, something else that I think would make teachers feel supported is a course administrator subbing, but I've talked about

128that a lot. Um, another eye openening thing for me that I never had until last year was working with another physical science teacher and I know we're but maybe pairing them up with somebody in another district um that where they only have one um and and they can you know and I was actually helping our physical science teacher here from afar. I had a folder where my coworker and I the other physical science teacher new chemist school we would dump things in there and then I shared it with Mr. again and he would go in there and pull things out and text me whenever he had questions. But those are some things that I would we really need to reduce teacher workload and that's why I left. I took a lower paying job. Actually, I

129just quit. I didn't have a job. Um but I I was okay with taking a lower paying job and that's what I do now and for a reasonable workload. Um >> thank you Miss >> something to think about. >> You did have that two-minute response and it it is has been exceeded but I did have one question. What is the the you said something is called it was quizzes and now it's called what? >> Wayround. >> Say it again. >> Way ground. W A Y G R O U N D. >> Okay. >> I believe that's the new name. >> Heard of that. >> It was awesome. >> And the second thing I would like to know, I would like to ask Dr. Daniel, if um you could please provide some EXL data in the

130future at a meeting or something that could um bear out the um achievement or the support of achievement or if you have any any data from the past that would indicate that that was helpful. >> I don't not helpful or whatever it was. >> I don't know. I don't know. >> You don't have to do that right now. I'm just asking for that in the future if you can. The only thing I can the usage data would have um gone away with um the cancellation of the contract with Renaissance. >> Um but in terms of student performance last year, so last year was the first full year we did not have. So, especially in math, um, every every math performance except for algebra one increased over the previous year. Um, so we actually saw our

131largest gains content area wise in mathematics last year. And I'm not saying it was the removal of um we did several other things in terms of double blocking. Um but I would also say while um cognizant of teacher workload and um work life balance for instructional staff. My goal can't be what's the easiest for teachers. My goal has to be what is best for student achievement. Um when we had the conversation in a leadership meeting about um renewing the EXL contract which was purchased with COVID money originally. I think there was a a three-year contract or something like that that was purchased during COVID time. I asked you know how much are we using it? Um and the response that I got in that during that questioning was not a lot. So that then led

132to that convers that then led to the decision about not renewing that I contract. What my concern is and again I don't have the hard data to look at it but I think it's more what I worry about is becoming the instruction and not the practice. So I think it's easy to allow to be the instruction and instead of allowing it just to be the practice and the rehearsal of things. So like to convince me that right now we need to improve student achievement is going to be a difficult a difficult thing because we've we've seen math performance improve quite significantly um in our in our in our school system. Are we doing are we still below the state average? Yes. Are we where we need to be? No. Are we Have we seen quite

133quite significant gains? Yes, we have. So again, is just one one ingredient in the cake for sure. >> Some of that is is scheduling and and assigning assigning the right people and having the right staff and the right people in the right seats on the bus, if you will. >> I don't know of any teachers that overuse I excel. >> Um I never witnessed that in my years teaching there. Um, and you know, I know it's not your job to decide nec Well, maybe it is because see, losing teachers because they are constantly overwhelmed and overloaded affects student achievement. If you have a teacher leave mid year, we usually can't replace them, >> right? >> So, in a way, a reasonable workload, I think, is should be our goal because that just trickles down to

134student achievement. you have tired worn out teacher you know um trying I mean you can it is important for everybody to achieve a good work life balance >> thank you Mann Stewart >> thank you >> and thank you for the audience for those of you who have stayed the uh rule was that we were going to leave at 8 it's after 8 however we did have one submission of uh question or concern that came in that I would like to read if that is all right with the members and with the admin. All right. And this will be our final this will be our final um speaker so to speak. This is from Miss Jenny Ule of Halifford, Virginia. My name is Jenny Ule. I was the middle school librarian for five years at Thomas

135Hunter Middle School. In 2024, I was reassigned to be the librarian for prek through 7th grade. I am asking for a designated librarian assistant to be placed in the 2025 2026 budget. I would also request to be part of the hiring process. Library is an extension of the classroom with planned lessons concentrating on library and English standards. I service nine grade levels, 25 classes per week. Imagine teaching a class of 24 students on one side of the library while at any given time having 8 to 15 students on the other side taking an assessment, reading, working on a project, etc. In addition to teaching, librarians have administrative duties. I manage seven budgets and Chromebooks for both schools. Seek two to three reputable book reviews for each book to be ordered. Finalize and submit orders. Process

136each book received. Maintain current collection. Issue many different types of reports. Make signage and displays to assist our patrons for selection. Recommend books to students. I manage the book fair setup, run sales, and pack up the fair. All of which require daily financial accountability to our bookkeeper and Scholastic. I help teachers with supplemental reading in their content area. I maintain an inviting library space for our students and staff, which is now for two schools. I apply and have received many grants over my library career. And don't forget library inventory, check in, out of books, and shelving. I also do quote school support unquote duties. This year I'm required to supervise second bell riders in the library every afternoon and starting this month supervise students who receive inschool suspension. At Tuesday's schoolboard meeting, members questioned our

137reading and math scores. With the current schedule, I'm not able to run book clubs, library lunches, the reading cafe, monthly themed reading challenges, special events that promote reading or collaborate with classroom teachers. I was told at the beginning of this year I would have a designated library assistant, which I learned recently is not the case. I do have help most of the time which I am grateful but the assistant that helps is pulled to cover classes. I need a designated assistant in the library that can learn the library software share in the administrative duties and the ability to run services with me and or in my absence. I want to bring back services that promote reading initiatives and allow me time to improve services I'm trying to keep in place. Now, I've spoken to administration

138and several schoolboard members over the last year, and I appreciate the opportunity to request a full-time library assistant in this forum. Thank you for considering my request. And to Mrs. Juel's point, this is an issue that we have talked about um quite a bit. Um Dr. Daniel, could you give the current status and talk to this issue a little bit? >> Sure. I mean, I think Miss Yule um addressed it as as part of the the written comment. So, um last year there was not an assistant, I guess, assigned to the library. this year um we made efforts to assign an assistant to the library. I think the concern has been in as we talked a little bit earlier about subs and kind of halfday situations and if a TA and if there's a TA

139who need who's working specifically with um with a student, we may have to pull from other spaces. I don't have the exact number of days or hours that the TA um from the library has been pulled. My understanding is that it is not a regular occurrence, but I can check with Miss Bray and Miss Simpson to get an idea of um how frequently um that that TA has had to be pulled to cover some cover some situations. Um so the goal, you know, the goal really was um you know, part of what we need to do was reduce staff to meet um budget constraints. Um so we weren't able to add a position, so we reassigned. One of the things to keep in mind with our division is that we don't have a um stratification

140of our teacher assistants. So, they're all teacher assistants and so the job description is all pretty much the same and then they're assigned based on based on need. Um, if I'm reading into a little bit of what Miss Ule is asking is to have a a specific job classification of library assistant. We've had conversations as part of our turnover of teacher assistants because I think where we do have a significant turnover issue is with our teacher assistants. And so do we look at a different salary structure, a different a stratification for teacher assistants um to say this is an interventionist or this is a parapro versus a teacher assistant versus um some other sort of um and then work to develop a different job description and then pay pay scale um for those folks. So

141that's part of our salary scale conversation. Um part of that challenge though, the push back on that is going to be we're a really small school division and so we have to be pretty flexible in how staff is assigned. You know, we mentioned teachers having to teach um one or two or three preps potentially. our TAs are probably doing in some cases six or seven preps, if you will, during their days. And um so it's a it's a staffing challenge, it's a funding challenge, it's a structural challenge. Um and again Miss Michule is not wrong in that while the numbers of students in the library isn't excessive. The programming of seven nine grade levels is definitely a challenging structure. As we had conversations yesterday about consolidation, I think one of those one of the suggestions

142coming up is being able to have kind of a uniform schedule in K7 that will help ease some of that programming and planning um burden that she's experiencing right now. >> I agree. We've talked about the need. You said stratification is a good word. and and pay. >> We know the pay is abysmal. >> That that um issue is on the work agenda uh work session agenda if I'm not mistaken. >> So, we will be learning more about that. But I I I thank Mrs. you for sending in her comment >> and um I have spoken to her many times over the last couple of years and I can sense her frustration and I do know that librarians now are librarian teachers and they have a a lot of extra things that again when we

143were in school the librarian did not did not do and I I can see the frustration. I would be curious to see how um often and how um disruptive it is to have the person is it pulled very acutely and I can see where that would be extra frustrating because you're you're counting on this person to be there and then it's kind of at the moment it's an urgent need and they've got to go. Um so I I don't I don't blame her. It's a it's a frustration. I wish we could um give her have that be a designated person, but I do I completely understand with the consolidation that's going on, I think we will have to all get even more flexible than we already are. Um this is this is just a very

144challenging time that is is going to continue to be challenging. And um >> can I ask a question? What have we done years ago? You had class mothers. Was not a paid job. It was volunteer work. And they would come in and do things with that class. Did we wear that out or just iron it out because they didn't know how to teach or something? >> I know that's probably before your time, Dr. Daniel. >> No, there's there's I mean, I think for you. >> Yeah, the the challenge with um like as I think we talked a little bit earlier about volunteers and then vetting every volunteer. Um it also gets I think a lot of the volunteer participation in the schools waned after COVID. I think it waned in willingness in some avenues on

145citizens, but I think there also is a a waning of willingness um within our staff. Part of the challenge with that is as a teacher, you're having to at least in the very early phases of that develop almost a lesson plan or kind of a work plan for whoever that volunteer who is coming in. And so you've got to train that other person on how your class is is going to happen and and going to be run. Um it's I would say the room mother is probably a lost um a lost position. Um just generationally it's just not not kind of a thing so much. And there is there continues to be I think a willingness to um volunteer in some way from community members coming into the school. Some of that that I've experienced

146is a very specialized willingness in what they want to do or how to do. Um so I mean it's it's it's not it's a potential solution. We've talked about especially in the library about um working with volunteers and trying to develop um a very specialized skill set for the volunteers to come in and and lend some assistance. I mean we've we've a couple times have had that conversation. >> Have teachers requested um that they requested volunteers say I'm ready. I I have they have very rarely. I mean, there have there have been a few exceptions to that. We um I'm not sure if we've put out the the request form this year. I know we have in years past like >> tell us do you want to volunteer and what do you want them for?

147And then we tried to match that up with volunteer skill sets and from the volunteer lists and sent out and those things didn't um didn't line up all that much. So >> is that something that we could reach out to the teachers for again? >> I mean I can send that out again. I can work with both principles to send that out again and think through who can help try to coordinate some of that. That then becomes part of that challenge is is matching like the volunteer the approved volunteer list with >> um you know the the needs or the wants for teachers. oftentimes what the teachers need is is a regular commitment to like I need you every every Monday, Wednesday, Friday from 10:15 to 10:58. Um, and that's often hard for volunteers to

148then schedule and commit to. It's I mean, I'm not blaming anybody on either side of that. It's it's just a it's a it's a hard match game. Are there any additional comments? All right. Thank you for everyone's attention and I am sorry that we have gone over time, but I think this was a very uh productive town hall. Thank you for attending. Thank you for listening at home. And without any further comment, this town hall is now adjourned.