001e e e all right I come R they were born oh I love that that's a wonderful answer greats did last [Music] good evening it's six o'clock and I'd like to welcome everybody to the February 20 25th 2025 Matthews County School Board town hall meeting uh would everybody please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all as the facilitator for this evening I will go ahead and read our town hall meeting procedures I as a Schoolboard chair will facilitate the town hall meeting each Matthews County citizen wishing to speak shall provide his or her name and address on the signup sheet provided at entrance to the
002Brooks Auditorium citizens who wish to speak will have the opportunity to approach the podium one time and singly to ask a question a citizen's question should be kept to a maximum of 2 minutes questions should not pertain to Personnel or individual student matters school board members and or the superintendent will address each Citizen's question once the Citizen's question has been addressed the citizen will have up to two minutes for one follow-up question or rebuttal once all initial questions from citizens have been addressed and as time permits each citizen will be able to ask a maximum of two additional questions for citizens who were unable to attend the town hall meeting in person or who preferred to submit questions by email we given the opportunity to use the Google form that was available on the mcps
003division website uh and those were to be submitted today by noon and we received no email submissions the town hall finally will adjourn no later than 800 P.M thank you Mr Hicks would you please approach the podium with your question well good evening Richard Hicks from North Virginia so as I understand it the if I wanted to get a full copy of the school budget I could do that with a fouryear request if I wanted to get uh information on all the money the school spins individual checks etc etc I could get that information through foure requests that is that your question Mr yeah well that leads on to where I would if I'm assuming correctly I yes I have further comment concerning that so Mrs Hodes yes you don't need a for you don't
004need to re your request for a copy of the budget that's public information well the budget we see tends to be very limited I'm talking about the big budget all the details dets you don't your budget isn't just one or two pages you got a whole lot more detail than that budgets are public information so I think so it's all okay so I think that if you're I'm sorry go so my point would be if this is if if it's all foilable if it's all public information and i' like to see more de I like to see a more detailed budget I'm sure there is a more detailed budget why isn't it online perhaps that can be answered um we have a budget that is online it is extensive but the detail behind it would
005be so many pages so I think probably that's a reason that it's not posted in total but it certainly is accessible Dr Daniel do you have a comment on this yeah I mean it's just the volume of it I mean if there's a request I mean I'm we're more than happy to to print all the things out and or create in a PDF and send it your way okay so on on the other side of that after the money's been spent the bank statement all every check you write all that information your bank Ledger isn't that all avable also so the um the monthly expenditures that we do push out monthly and that's part of the board docs like what what checks is the board members come in monthly to um kind of go through
006all the accounts and the various checks that were written and that's part of the board dos and that is that is in is that online that is that part is yes all right detail I mean it shows Mrs Smith got paid $50 Mrs Jones got paid $50 and the plumber got $100 is it that detailed it's detailed but you're not going to understand it you have thank you very much right you might have a check with for $50 to so and so to pay back something that they did for the school or you could have something like paid such and such company $100 but you don't know what it was for I I have to ask those questions myself is not in the memo line it can be or it cannot um to give you
007an example like on the the regular budget you were talking about at first they may have line 3200 let's say and line 3200 is for some type of expenditures but there could be like 7 8 nine 10 11 12 different expenditures and you wouldn't know which one it was four other words if you're looking to find out that this outfit over here used four reings of paper you're not going to find it can refer to all right we We'll add a little piece on to that um every month in our agenda we post the monthly claims and they're attached to the agenda and that's Public Access you just have to click on it now it may not give you the level of detail that you are looking for but um I would say that you
008have access to that level of detail at your request yeah um it's it would probably be under the consent agenda section and then if you go to the attachment it's that monthly claim now if you're looking for the claims um prior to that month you'd have to go back month by month but it tells you the vendor it tells you the amount of the check um and so it does tell you in relative detail what the amount is and who it was to all right if that that helps you that sounds good that sounds good is as some of the members up there know I'm the treasurer for the Republican committee and uh now we don't spend a lot of money but they get all the information at everybody in the meeting gets all the
009information I pass around a bank statement and make notes on it who got you know who got money and why they got money so that's the kind of detail I'm looking for go back to the prior agendas if you have any trouble with accessing that through board docs just feel free to to let me know I'm happy to show it to you all right okay thank you Mr Hicks yeah and I would add to it's again I think Miss H just noted that it's in the consent agenda and so last month it was fy2 claims 122 through 212 so that's kind of the on that tab so it'll show you everything through those dates and it's listed by like the actual Po and so that's probably not going to give you the information the clarity
010because it's going to it's going to document what PO number was issued for that like account excellent Miss Jess Christensen hi there I haven't seen you guys in a while good evening um I come in peace but I did have a question about if there's been I haven't been able to be at a lot of meetings but I still watch afterwards and I've just been interested if there's been any consideration Talk review anything regarding the transition of the grade to the high school um I am an eighth grade student parent and I've heard nothing um from Schoolboard or Administration I know administration's not here tonight and some of my questions kind of do I I probably need to address with them some of the details but I guess I'm here to ask and to maybe
011suggest um before the next school year because I know we're approaching March which was when the decision was uh last year um most of the feedback I get is it's been okay it's been great at least from my eighth grader and his classmates um I do have a couple things that became cons for me after the decision was made and then the um eighth grade orientation meeting happened um the big one which I don't know that I we can really talk about a lot tonight is that tracking for eth graders was dropped um if you know if you don't understand tracking it's more of tracking the different student levels especially some of them being Advanced levels and for me the biggest issue has been a English reading um Gap there um where we were told
012there would be differentiation and it it's just still not feeling like it um I haven't really addressed it with the school I've been waiting I wanted to give it a good half school year but going into the third quarter I have a lot of concern where my students told you're going to move into honors next year and I don't know if he's prepared for for that because they did this is a gap year for them for that situation for honor students and that needs to be looked into and addressed um the elective wheel they don't love it is what I'm hearing um and I just don't know if there's anything that's been thought of or considered you know we the the pro was that they'd be able to take High School courses and level classes
013and they're not is that me my time okay yes um so good questions yes um Dr Daniel would you like to in Le of the the principal being here would you like to address the we've got two we've got a couple questions in there that's sorry so I'll start on I'll start with feedback so the feedback that I've gotten from and um talking with various parents also with admin at the high school is that it it overall it has gone very well I think the cons are the same that that you've brought up about the elective wheel um the lack of like an advanced uh English class we've had conversations about the need for an advanced social studies class well the math is has already is already there and in place so that's that's already
014happening um working with principles on the master schedule for next year conversations have already taken place about removing that exploratory wheel and providing um entry level CTE courses uh for eighth graders to begin doing that prerequisite and ALS oo earning that High School Credit starting in the e8th grade so that conversation has begun along with making sure there is built into the master schedule and advanced um 8th grade English class um part of the um the I guess the oversight or the missing some of those pieces occurred because of the timing of the situation and they had already built the structure of the master schedule at the high school and so having to go back and kind of wedge some of these sections in didn't work out particularly well so learning from that experience pre-planning
015starting that process a little bit earlier um they're working to build those pieces in um the other thing that's happening with the 3E framework part of the State's new accountability system um there's much more emphasis on the sequencing of CTE classes so we're having conversations with the high school to make sure that we are setting students up to get those prerequisite classes but also we've got a natural kind of first year coupled with a seconde CTE class to meet the needs uh to meet the criteria for that um the completer status for CTE classes I think we did a pretty good job with getting um like Fine Arts access for eighth grade students um and do going back to the first part of your question terms of successes one of the things the high school
016put in initially was a third lunch block and they after the first semester I think they realized that that really wasn't necessary um in fact I think they realiz and we pulled that from some feedback from some other school school divisions who had moved 8th grade to the high school they suggested having that third lunch block um I think what the high school found was the students the eighth grade students behaved better when surrounded by the high school students so they moved back to two lunch blocks I think after the end of second semester they had the seating available and and it worked out pretty well um so the high school I mean they're making adjustments um as they've kind of accepted the the eighth grade students so I mean all in all I think
017it's it's gone U pretty well and I would also say and one of our other local neighboring School divisions is also planning to move their eighth grade to their High School um for the start of next school year so it's um it's folks are trying to adapt based on enrollment changes and facility availability and stuff like that just one second uh Dr Daniel regarding the question about differentiation um would you like to address that or defer to uh I'll need to do some research on that one I don't I don't have a great answer for you on that one so I'll have to go back to the principles and I need to do it as well I've just been kind of waiting to see if it if it repeated from quarter to quarter and it
018it has and I actually comments this last month have said we don't I can't do differentiation from teachers so yeah it's it's easier done when there's a when you can do it by class as opposed to by group within a class um but I can ask those questions and engage uh Miss gray to kind of do some provide either some assistance to the eth grade English teacher to kind of figure out okay what are some differentiated activities or projects or just assignments lessons things along those lines I'm not meaning to single that out that I've been most concerned about I guess you'd say and my student is like please do not say anything she just going to grade Me Harder and so I promised I wouldn't so don't tell them I said anything but one
019follow-up question one minut from eth grade um I have another student that's going to be in seventh grade but in the advanced math path as well has there and I know this is probably scheduling at the school level too but it I know we're phasing that out of EV but this year was a different setup for them also with the block schedule um I didn't know just something to maybe talk to Administration as well I hate doing it just individually because I feel like if we can get more people um I just I know that one day they take math at the high school the next day they take art at the middle school and that is all year and my seventh grader loves the art teacher but not for a year because he's had
020her the last you know he's had art the last two years and then for the what he uses art for the next two years as well and I'm not just saying art any of the elective courses they just I don't know we I hope maybe we can evaluate that one as well and review if there's an option for and that's a very small subset also so I Know It's Tricky thank you the hurdle there is the economy of scale and so you're you're talking about a handful of kids just in a in a small Division and so the way the Middle School master schedule is set up every grade level is kind of going to to electives at the same time and so for the the lone math teacher at that grade level to be
021able to teach seventh grade math but then have the flexibility to also offer a section of Algebra 1 inhouse that's that's the challenge within the master schedule so the way we solve that is busing students then to the high school for that Algebra 1 instruction and so because the high school does a pure AB that leads us to okay so what do we do on that that bday if you will at Thomas Hunter and so the the solution has been kind of the the art class and I think I guess I'm saying maybe if we could think out of the box a little since they're already taking high school if they're still going to go to the high school next year maybe they can take some of like Spanish one or like I know that's
022a first we can look I know I know too many too many things I know Spanish one is a first block option but and there's only there's room in that classroom for the amount of kids that I think we're talking about and maybe they're usually kind of ready for that if these are options rather than coming back to the middle school and just taking a full year something that we're trying to develop but just take a look suggestions thoughts thank you Mr CHR thank you amable Hannah Stewart good evening um so I am a bit worried for um student achievement in regards with math because of us of mcps um discontinuing Excel um and that's a program that differentiates um and it helps scaffold students to get to a desired level of success and it
023can be very individualized as you could have 10 15 or more students in the room working on whatever they need to gives them harder problems if they get them right until they get to the desired level of success and they can move to a different topic so but anyway I my question is with with that explanation there of what iel is is like how do Math teachers prepare students for their computer adaptive computer adaptive math so tests since Matthews County Public Schools no longer uses ISL I pardon me excuse me excuse me we will go ahead with the question here uh Dr Daniel would you like to answer that or would you like to refer it to um principales teachers um I I think in terms of the the prep well I'll I'll go back
024to the ISL question so um the before removing ISL I had conversations with principles about is it being used how much is it being used because it's uh it's about a $8,000 program uh that had been funded via Esser money um so I asked principles is it being used if not then how do we um is that if if we're not utilizing it fully then I don't want to expend $8,000 on a program that's not being utilized the response that I got back was we're not really using it um yes so that was part of the decision and going to that also seeing like historically for quite some time our math scores haven't been good I didn't see a great correlation between the use ofl and math um math scores on so test um I
025tend to think that teachers um I think kids are going to need the direct instruction on math concepts and more rigorous questions from that instruction needs to come from the teacher as opposed to having a kid just go sit at the computer to go do that I do completely recognize the need for practice and the accessibility of materials for students to practice working on specific math skills things along those lines so the the removal ofl wasn't done capriciously or um without without thought I mean there was there was conversations had prior to not renewing that that contract with Renaissance for EXL um did I go and poll every teacher no I didn't do it I asked the principes to give me the the feedback on it prior to then um not renewing that that um
026subscription withl um now how are they prepping for um what I would say are cat computer adjusted testing for students um I don't know that I've got the exact answer as to how every teacher is prepping them for for that work so I mean I'll have to go back and ask principles and talk to some Math teachers to see what they're doing I don't know I I don't personally feel like the hurdle is in the computer adapted aspect of taking that test I think it's more in understanding the concepts that are in that particular grade level's so for mathematics I think they need the students are going to need familiarity with taking a test on a computer and they do lots of stuff on computer um but I don't think the the Adaptive nature of
027that is what is driving the success or lack thereof for students in our math department I guess Bart you would have one minute to rebut okay well I I've never seen it or I don't think I know of any teachers that ever viewed it as a substitute for direct instruction you know it's it's far as I know it's been viewed as practice um I experienced that program as a parent and as a teacher and loved it as a parent and a teacher and it's just you know we love differentiation and that's a great way for hey when it's practice time the students that hey Master what you taught really quickly can move on to something a little more advanced if they want to um but since we're big to differenti ation and it's hard for
028one person to when it's practice time to make it around to larger classes you know um you know it does a job that no one person could do when it's practice time and and it explains to the kids why they got it wrong you know and if they got it right gives them a harder problem and he the desired Lev success so I'm still disappointed that we're not don't seem to have a method for practicing that as far as I know but thank you Miss ban Stewart thank you I do not have anybody else listed on the signup sheet is there anyone who would like to approach the podium for to to ask a question for two minutes there was yeah yes would would you like to approach the podium you can to speak to
029ask a question just please State your state your name and address mckinster is my son he's an eighth grader I'm s get your name Angie Angie mckinster okay and please State your address 407 bucks Chase Road thank you it's on gwin's island hudgin 23076 she answered the question I just think the for me personally Jess informed me of this meeting how are we supposed to know about this meeting I'm not on social media I can't be because of my job so the meetings have been announced for several months at all of our business meetings and they're they're noted in the paper also onsite for your town hall meeting wasn't on the list on the school website what if you don't get the paper that's my question the school website can you access the school website
030our meetings are all are all are all located on there and um if you get our paper if you get the paper they're always noted and it's uh if you listen to the recorded versions of our meetings they're all streamed um but you can go back and listen and they are reiterated twice at each meeting all of our upcoming meetings are reiterated at the existing meeting at the current meeting so we try to give as um much notice as possible for public meetings we we want the public to be here and I'm so glad that you're here tonight thanks thank you Sharon fry 106 Weston Hall Road Port Haywood uh first off I want to say thank you for your service I'm glad to mount the outside looking in because it's a hard job my
031question is I believe the Department of Education is going to go under the federal department of education so my question once again is No Child Left Behind when that program came out I was apparently quite busy in my life and what I thought it was going to be No Child Left Behind in their academic knowledge or performance instead what it meant was and I kind of learned that all the children just get pushed ahead no matter if they're failing or not so my question is do you all think this is a good program do you all um believe that it hasn't harmed children do you all believe that our CH kids are getting a good education by just pushing them ahead without a good foundation that's my question and will you as a school board
032fight for our children to get a good foundation instead of constantly pushing them ahead and saying well next year we'll give them 20 and a half more hours of a reading specialist every week so M your question uh surrounding retention the concept of retention and the policy of retention um in our in our division first of all would any members like to address this point before I refer to Dr Daniel because I I do see I hear what you are saying um I do want to clarify that I I what I don't think you're saying is the extra attention that we're giving individual children when we do determine they are gaps that that is not warranted and that we shouldn't do that we of course should do that correct oh AB absolutely absolutely but I
033my question is is that enough do you really think that that's enough because I personally don't but if you all see it it is enough and the kids are getting better and are prepared and you are setting a good foundation so be it go ahead Mrs Hodes um fir first of all no Char Left Behind came out in Bush and then um Obama changed it to every child succeeds I think that's that's what it's called and that was to make sure that children who were not that we had made sure that each School Division was paying attention to children that were not being successful and and and look really looking and drilling down to scores but to follow up on on what uh Dr Gibbs said I don't think a blanket answer I don't think
034there is a blanket answer as to whether um children automatically go ahead and progress through school or stay back I think that's on a case-by Case basis um and I think that there are students that do stay back that aren't ready for whatever reason to move on um that usually happens in the earlier grades um um so I I I I don't think there is a blanket answer um there although when you go to the the seventh and eighth grade at that time you should know well before the seventh or eighth grade whether they are reading on grade level or not so am I hearing you say that you think if they're not reading on grade level that we should retain them is that what I'm hearing you say so they don't move on I'm
035thinking Elementary and when is the last time a child has been retained I I can't I can't remember when no maybe there has been but the thing is is if you all don't if you all think the child should be retained why don't you bring the parents in and say hey instead of pushing I think we've been as a society we've been pushing them ahead just pushing them ahead I don't believe we retain children in elementary school anymore well am I wrong I hope I'm wrong I well I think we are in our division I think we are but I think Dr Daniel is the one that Ry could speak to that um more specifically in recent years but I know in past years of the early grades they do exactly what you say they
036keep the parent apprised and then they make a decision about recommendation whether they should be retained or move forward but I think he could speak to that more specifically because he probably hears more about students that are retained that I do I don't want to hog the microphone if anybody else wants to go before me I mean well I I believe evening the bare facts speak for themselves all right today passing is a60 when I went to school it was 70 what have we done we left no child behind we left a ton of them behind but the problem is we decided to dumb down then dumb up and not everybody learns the same way as we seem to find out but the way it worked in the past must have been pretty good I
037mean I learned how to read and write of course some days it's depends it could be a little ferocious but I you know if I could learn I could see just about anybody learn there are kids with special needs I'm not going to deny that we got quite a few of them today yes they need the additional attention but I'm talking about the general population it doesn't seem like we've brought them up we brought them down and I I still look today and I don't believe that we're teaching our children everything we need to teach them I think we need to teach them more and that's a big Quantum right now because they don't have enough time to learn what people want want them to learn today you got to remember something when they graduate
038high school you had theoretically prepare them for their life and I don't see that happening today thank you Mr Dobson um Dr Daniel perhaps you have some specific information for our School Division on this point of retention policy sure um and I'll start with I probably differ a little bit with Mr Dobson and and um some of um I would specifically I don't I don't think we've dumbed down the curriculum I don't think we've dumbed down what we're expecting out of kids um retention research shows that retention as an intervention is doesn't work it works um unless you're doing something different for that child in the second year of that grade level it's not a successful strategy over the long term you may see a boost in that initial two years but typically with students
039who are retained um if you haven't addressed what the cause of that um learning difficulty is then there that student regresses after three years of that retention so our goal is to apply interventions um before that child fails so that's why we talk when we talk about multi-tiered systems of support when we talk about the universal screening data that is then identifying students during the school year who are either reading or doing math below what our expectations are and then we're targeting specific interventions to those children during the school year and so that may be pulling them from elective classes in some of the upper grades or time out of some of their elective classes that's keeping them after school um that's working to address very specific skill deficits prior to them failing um or
040having to that grade um but yeah I mean we there are students each year who are retained that process starts at the end of first semester so principles go through and look at um student achievement reports and so they send letters home to students who are in danger at the first semester of being retained that um if they're still in that watch group at the end of third quarter that happens again prior to the end of the school year they have individual ual parent meetings with those with those families prior to making the decision to retain a student in some cases that that does result in retention um in some cases that's going to summer school along with some other students who need kind of a bridge from the end of one school year to
041the beginning of the next school year so there are multiple other strategies to address student needs well before we get to that retention conversation so since you've been here is our superintendent have we retained elementary school children any um we're do an intervention instead yeah I'd have to go back and look at the list I'm just curious because you said now it's no longer six you found it wasn't successful I well in my day and in Bobby's day in the older people's day of course one in 36 now have autism so I'm told um that would I would be curious yes I know specifically we have retained students in the division from last year to this year um I would have to go back and look at individual grades yeah you've been here a couple
042years and since you think intervention is the thing and I don't so but you're the professional in that standing thank you you're welcome thank you Miss fry do we have anybody in the audience any other in the audience who would like to approach the podium for the first time with a question good evening hello my name is Chuck mckinster I have a student at Matthews high school he's in eighth grader um he had I have a curriculum question um there was a class this year around career investigations U I believe that was a new class introduced this year uh they had it for a short period of time it's during they're doing the wheel throughout the year so he had it for a portion of the year uh I was wondering if there were plans
043to continue that course going forward and um my feedback would be uh as a parent to an eighth grader it's very difficult for him to figure out what he wants to have for lunch much less uh determine a a career path and I was wondering I think the concept is good but an introduction to you know 13 and 14 year olds I he I don't believe he got much out of it and I was wondering what the plans were going forward or if that was something that would make more sense maybe in the sophomore junior year that sort of thing so thank you okay I'll go um so career investigations is actually a state requirement that all students um have to go through those components or the um the competencies of career investigations um in
044their middle school years some some school divisions will um weave those competencies through other courses some school divisions will make it as a separate kind of Standalone class the guidelines from the state are have really begin pushing that career exploration down um to really the Middle School level and having students begin exploring what careers are available doing some career inventories at a relatively young age um and that part of that process is also in the the accountability framework making sure that students have the CTE Career and Technical education completer sequences of classes um so while we were talking a little bit um I don't know if you all came in when we were talking about the wheel and trying to move away from the wheel as part of the eighth grade um rotation um but
045I do anticipate kind of a career exploratory or career investigations class of some kind remaining because of that that that state requirements um but also there's an academic and career plan uh that students work on to help um guide their planning of the courses in high school and trying to match those up with possible uh career Fields down the line um so yeah it's it's part of what we've done to meet the the state requirement for that career investigations those competencies yes I um thank you for that question but I also think to follow up on what Dr Daniel said in what one of the things he pointed out this is a requirement from the State Department of Education um and it's been in place for well over a decade and I think uh as
046you pointed out um you might have a handful of students in the middle school and e8th grade that know what they want to do and are clear-minded about that but some are still graduating and sorting that out um and so I I I think it's a bit early it's okay to start exposing them but I would agree with you that um I think the push is a bit a bit early um in in what we're but we're required to do this and so we do what we're required to do may I add one yes sure not too long ago we had um at the high school I think it was gear two years ago perhaps to the ninth grade and they had a career fair and I don't know how many of us were around
047the gym um at different stations where the students had to rotate through all of them um and they had been prepped prior to that day um but we at the stations let's say I was at the grocery store okay they had a they had a list before them and again it's been a couple of years years but um of like three or four different options paying options uh or purchase options with different amounts of money and so forth and it was very interesting for me as general public at the time to look at that to look at the students and to hear their responses um because they realized I don't have enough money because they were given okay you're a doctor and you're a mechanic and you're a nurse and you a single parent Mom
048it told how many children they had and so forth so these kids it was it was interesting to me to see their response to that because they realize you know I can't spend X number of dollars at the grocery store for my family on my budget and I saw lights go on with those kids so I just add that in for you can I can I talk about that career day I've been doing that for years and uh first three things the kids buy internet phone and entertainment for Games first three things and what happens is you have to send them back to have them change it so they have enough money to continue on okay they give you a a like she said you're a doctor you make this much you need to either
049have a house or apartment a car and you have to open up a bank account and it goes on a list of things like that and it always seems uh that you will send several of them back to have it changed and this year for the first time I noticed children that couldn't right cursive because they're no longer teaching it in course my mind how do you sign a contract okay but so many of the children print it and I said can't you write your name and they go no so that I I know they haven't taught it in for a couple years um the one thing I will say is you have to have children's attention I've set in this year and last year on a couple classes where the teachers were Dynamite the
050they they they had the kids' minds they had their attention they focused on them and the kids worked it they were sitting at groups of five if I remember right at a table so they had 20 kids there at four tables and they worked as a team what one didn't know the other one knew and it was it was one of the best environments for learning I've seen in a long time um I remember in a military I taught and in order to grab people's attentions a lot of times I might drop a 20 PB Bar of Steel on the floor and that'll grab their attention or walk up behind them and smack them in the back of the head because they're sleeping but if you don't hold people's attentions I don't care what what
051you're teaching you that that's the most key fact is to hold their attention you can be the best teacher in the world but if you can't hold their attention you're you're not going to do it you must hold a child's attention and not everybody can do that or or even the ways we plan the day those ways can't do it um I I I think teachers that modify their their own idea of teaching sometimes I mean there there they know what kids need to to know and and not all kids are the same so Jimmy down here yeah if I do something a little different with him I I got him and I got Benji over here if I do something a little bit I got him so you you work a little bit separate
052with him sometimes but I I I listen that is one's good for all it's not going to happen it's just not going to happen I think most teachers know that that if you work with some of the others and I've seen it here if if you just apply a little bit different to this one versus that one you won't lose them that's all I got to say Thank you Mr Dobson do we have anyone else in the audience who'd like to approach the podium for the first time right there being none we have time is there someone who has approached and would like to approach again Mr Hicks Richard Hicks North Virginia um I have several questions that they they go together they wrap around IEPs individual education plans so to start with how many
053students do we have on IEPs and then following that how many student how many situations where we do we have where we have one teacher and one student where how many how many places how how many times do we have one teacher with two students or one teacher with three students and Etc and going along with that um I believe we are busing shipping sending some students to other educational venues how many how many students are we loading up on a bus and s in a Gloucester or some other educational venue so start with how many people on IEPs um number does yeah I mean I don't know that I can off the top of my head give you the exact number sorry did I jump in before no I was just gonna say no
05440 50 60 10 two um so probably in terms of percentages um I think we're around 133% of our overall student population has an IEP um so um whatever that no so figure 750 students as a ballpark and 13% of that I'll let you do the math 75 plus okay okay um and then uh Beyond an IEP there's um probably another 15 to 18% to have uh a 504 plan as part of um Disabilities Act Section 504 so those are also individual plans so we were about 30 to 32% of our students have some sort of um plan and so um within an IEP there are um 13 category areas for eligibility um that go into why a student U may qualify for an IEP um in terms of for clarification on your question are
055you your question the next part of that was how many students we have like one teacher to one student or um so in terms of teacher to student we're not going to have any one teacher to one student there may be situations where based on the IEP there may be an assistant assigned to a specific student based on those needs um and that those situations would be driven Again by the IEP and the IEP team um but that's going to be a student with pretty significant um needs probably close to non-verbal um in the lower very lower grades um Regular CL most of our I most of our special education teachers have a case load of about um I would say ballpark average is about six to seven students on their case loads um that
056doesn't mean that they are necessarily the only only teacher that is teaching them so they may be in a collaborative setting they're their case manager responsible for making sure the IEP is being implemented um is kind of working at times with those individual students but is also collaborating with their general education teacher on differentiating kind of the the instruction or modifying modifying whatever is needed based on that I and I forget the third part of your question so are are there students the being shipped to so um several School divisions collaborate on the middle Peninsula Regional Education Program and so we have I think four students three three or four students who currently attend a class um a classroom in Gloucester as part of that middle Peninsula Regional special ed program um those most of
057those students are either multiple disabil ities or may have an Autism diagnosis so the licensure that lines up with um being able to work with those students is pretty rare and being able to access that particular teacher um for like say seven School divisions who collaborate in that program for each division to have an individual teacher would be very difficult to meet the federal requirements to match the lure with that student so what we do collaboratively is pay money to hire that teacher and then provide transportation um to send the students to that um location all right it's actually more cost effective than actually having um every every division try to find try to find that license teacher certainly okay thank you you're welcome thank you Mr Hicks is there anyone else in the audience
058who would like to approach for the second time Miss Christensen so this is going to complicate my first set of questions in a way um because so much of it revolves around scheduling but I'm I substitute primarily at Thomas Hunter and I see I know that we're all adjusting to the block schedules um high school middle school and all for myself and my students and their classmates the feedback is the blocks are long really long especially for certain classes um and I know the goal was to kind of align with the high school especially with the elective wheel and needing to bust students here so I know there's it's so complicated but is there I hope someone does consider possibly shortening the classes U maybe doing five instead of four or something I think it
059would help um with retention things we've talked about I think it would help with differentiation too um there's just a lot of things to think about the middle schoolers are still young an hour and a half almost 90 minutes with them is it can feel like a decade or a year and I'm only there every now and then so and they do say that some of them say you know their days they're just over those classes and I know know high schoolers hopefully we've got it kind of figured out or they're they've developed more where they can um focus but just something to think about something to consider and I I know that that makes it really hard when we're you know looking at the scheduling model we have but those middle schoolers are trying
060and the teachers are really working hard but it is a very long class for them would anyone like to respond to that do you have any information that would help be helpful there Dr Daniel okay um I know again we're in the season of master schedule planning right now for next year uh I know Miss Simpson is looking at shortening the length of that block a little bit to provide what it's probably going to be called like an e block like an extension or an intervention kind of block in the middle of the day she's going to Pilot that as part of our weather extension um so it'll probably be about a 30 35 minutes kind of mini block during the day but that will squee it'll take us from like 90 to probably 85
06183 um kind of minutes of that that block while it's not a a 60-minute block it does provide a few more breaks during the day um and the opportunity then for a built-in during the day remediation slash enrichment opportunity within the school day um as part of what she's planning for next year so looking at tweaking kind of how that block Works how how to better utilize some of the time um during the day so it's you know looking at some of the things that haven't worked great this year making some adjustments going in going into next year it's not quite the seven period day that I think um some folks um like um but it is looking at modifying that block a little bit Miss Christensen would you like your one minute bottle sure
062but it's just piggybacking off of the um career investigations to definitely look into it a bit I do think it might be early as well or it's just some of the feedback I get is it turns into more of a study hall versus actually understanding and I think you guys you know there's better options out there or maybe a better time frame for it so we'll see thank you good comment thank you is there anyone else who'd like to approach for the second time missal Hannan Stewart I'm excited to have a chance to ask another question so um my question is going to be about um the CIP um the comprehensive instructional program um I had to use CIP for the first time this year working in another district and found it I was I
063was excited about it but found it not to be user friendly and I like to I'm usually not I usually can learn Tech stuff pretty easily but I I found it to be not very user friendly as I said and it would have been much tougher for me without the assistance of the wonderful ITT um person instructional technology research teacher um that helped me and was there for if I want to ask a question about how do I do this how do I do this he had to show me some things multiple times but how how will teachers here in Matthews be prepared for using the CIP next year I just don't I don't want it dumped on them without you know we this whole building full of people that probably haven't used it before
064good question Dr Daniel can you address the the training aspect of CIP so we um pushed it out to teachers this year to begin tinkering with it at their own pace begin opening it up looking at it um using it um at their comfort level with the understanding that full implementation uh will begin occurring in the fall so I've asked principles to begin working on their training program um kind of what they want to um deploy for teachers whether that's some online trainings um but communicating that to teachers prior to them leaving for the summertime so they have time over the summer to either watch some of the embedded training videos um because part of CIP comes along with Mastery connect and knowing how to utilize that testing platform and accessing the the benchmark assessments
065and quizzes within Mastery connect so principles are beginning to work on those uh professional development plans whether that's um hey here are the sessions that you could view by the pool side at the beach uh at your leisure over the summertime uh we've talked about about um providing um recertification points for the time spent over the summer doing those trainings to make sure teachers are um getting I guess credit if you will for spending some of that off hours um getting ready for the start of the school year okay and we've had conversations with how do we um deploy some of our staff members to help schedule some of the um professional development I've had conversations with at least one staff member on being kind of a go-to person for either Mastery connect um and
066accessing um and we're also having conversation about canvas as well so there are lots of resources within canvas that I think most of our teachers don't realize are there um so having access to Canvas to Mastery connect and also the resources within CIP making sure that all of our staff members are aware of that it's on the Forefront of their minds as they're looking at planning as they're looking at can I find some quizzes can I find some additional activities for students that are aligned and are at the appropriate rigor so the principles are working on building those plans now okay good thank you because uh I was I I like hearing that they're going to be given the opportunity before they go home before summer because that's when I like to do a lot
067of the thinking and when school starts back up and all these new things are thrown at you at once that's that's very overwhelming so thank you thank you Dr Dan how many people usually takes doing an IEP how many uh staff members um so an IEP team member is going to include an administrator a gen ed teacher the special ed teacher the parent uh parent guardian of the students um depending on the um area of identification there may be some related service Personnel so um the school counselor may be involved in that if the child receives OT or PT Services um speech services that person that staff member would be a part of that team meeting as well so I would say you're probably a minimum of four to five anywhere up to probably eight
068or nine um staff members would be or individuals adults would be a part of that once a student um gets like approaches 16 17 obviously at 18 the student is also invited to begin attending those meetings as well to kind of help direct um their their specific plan and give feedback on what they need or what they don't need Etc and everybody has to agree upon it right um the parent has um a big say in how that plan gets developed uh but um the parent can has to sign the student in and sign the student out of that IEP um but it's a collaborative process um to kind of decide what that best what the best plan is for the student thank you sure back to the citizens do we have citizen who'd like
069to approach the podium for the second time Sharon fry 32% that's unbelievable I think it's unsustainable I don't know how we're doing it for teachers but my second question is when I come to Schoolboard meetings yall talk about hiring experienced teachers we need experienced experienced experienced teachers I don't know if y all remember but when you were young you weren't experienced when I came out of nursing school I wanted a specialty and they wanted an experienced nurse an experienced experienced experience nurse so my question to you is I hope you're looking at the Young vital vicious teacher that's anxious and really ready to get in there and teach the children absolutely I know that we are but there is a problem there there's a problem okay there's not there's no inexperienced teachers right so um
070well I'm glad you're looking absolutely heard experience experience next Friday I'm going to a job fair at Longwood um to try to recruit um young uh VI an excited people to come relocate to Matthews and work with work with the kids in our community um I will just from personal experience um my my youngest when she graduated from high school was seriously considering becoming a teacher um when she when we went to accepted students um days at various colleges she would kind of go to the if you're thinking about majoring in education go to this group you know the neuroscientists go over here Engineers so Educators go to this pod as we went to three different um colleges for accepted students days um like one of which was JMU massive like I think the undergrad
071is about 30,000 students roughly there on that particular day there were only I think 20 students interested in pursuing education um Mary Washington five Christopher Newport I think we were one of two or three on that given day so the draw to go into education um is not the same PLL that it was a generation ago um with 32% of the students on IEPs I wouldn't go into it either I I don't know that that honestly I don't know that that's that's the rationale for a lot of people um some of it's pay but also some of it is the um being in the bullseye for um a a lot of things that like education in schools are the collecting point the bottleneck for a lot of what's happening in society um so a lot
072of young people aren't drawn to being a part of that I think there's still a draw to work with kids and Human Services um but I don't think there is a willingness to um to battle on some of the the other um some of the other fronts so going back to the the rationale for Matthew's really needing experienced teachers one of the unique pieces of working in a small school division is that you may be the only say eighth grade science teacher or sixth grade English teacher seventh grade math teacher or the only person teaching English 11 for for example so that schools accreditation rides solely on you you're the only person teaching that so test so to be a first year teacher and carry that responsibility is a heavy heavy load so for knowing
073um knowing what that responsibility entails I think it's incumbent upon us to try to put experienced um competent teachers in those in those places to make sure the students are prepared for those so tests because that's that's a heavy responsibility um to then ask a 22-year-old coming straight out of college to um share to carry the carry the load of that of that grade level or that school's um potential accreditation because of testing those are the facts I kind of never mind okay I just feel like a young person if they're really really trained and you give them the curriculum they're supposed to teach and how to teach it and what you expect I'm just saying thank you thanks M fry I think if you keep in mind most people don't realize it but of
074course some people are going to realize it here shortly uh when you work for the government you you get a lot of entitlements that you normally wouldn't receive so you take the average teacher here she's probably got a 22 thou say 20 $222,000 package that she's paid for other things you're not going to find that out in the real world not that many companies PID that so that means you're going to have to cough up some of that money and after a while some of these teachers that were out there I think will find ourselves back teaching again because of the package that goes with it I was lucky I was in the military I can tell you having that package after I retired was the greatest thing in the world I'd be broke from
075uh from hospital visits by now so a lot of people do go looking for the packages and I think people after a couple of years we'll turn around and come back that's that's how I see it thank you Mr Dobson is there anyone else who'd like to approach for the second time there being none is there anyone who would like to approach for the third time this will be the third and final question Mr Hicks I didn't know i' get to third question so Richard Hicks North Virginia so um first I'm going talk about several years ago Matthews County put in place a cell phone policy a pretty good cell phone policy uh and now the state has decided to follow follow and they're going to have a set of State rules um but not
076as tough as Matthews County from what I understand so hopefully you don't have to soften up the point I want to make here is you recognize that there was a problem that this phones need to be taken out of the school and you and there were a lot of parents that didn't like it and you said look this is the way we're going to do business and you know you don't get a say in this this is the way we're going to do business we're it's it's a demand on our part and we expect you at a parent to step up and help out so I want to go to another area that I think might need certainly could use some help is homework now I don't talk about myself very often I went to
077a prep school we had 9th through 12th grade three hours of study hall every night and I never lacked for anything to do during those three hours and an included Sunday night it was a full five days I don't believe you're anywhere near approaching that schools would do a lot better if they were had students certainly at that High School level doing homework and doing a lot of it and saying oh well we're not going to give you homework on the weekend that doesn't work tell them yes Sunday night or Saturday night you're getting homework and you got to do it and I look at I look at education it's a job you have to put in eight or nine hours a day uh five days a week to get your education I put in
078my work I'd work six days a week but certainly students when they when certainly when you get that at 8th 9th 10th 11th grade they can be putting in the hours to get an education because we're putting in the money to provide it Mr heck so if I understand your question question more of a I was going to do my best to formulate a question out of that do you have any comment is any a board member have any comments something I I do too so go first uh the reason we got to make the cell phone policy was because there was none and the state of Virginia wasn't involved with it at the time if you could keep those people out you'd do a lot better well that wasn't a I was just pointing
079out that you made a demand it was reasonable and it worked my follow on to that is you should be demanding more of certainly opera school students in a way of homework of going to school putting in the hours it's a job just go do it and I just wanted to follow up with um we did survey the parents and the teachers and staff about um their feelings about cell phone use in the school so they did get their say um that was considered good that was considered and I believe that you are correct with having high expectations I don't think that we have a no homework policy um uh is the is a homework would you say um neither is it mandated but is a teacher uh developing their own approach to homework yeah
080it it varies from teacher to teacher um and at the risk of being quoted in the future Mr Hicks I probably agree with you on um on on this particular point I I think there is definitely room um within our school division to increase the academic expectations uh with regards to homework and we've seen it with behavior and so we've worked um pretty consistently at all three schools over the last year and a half to increase behavioral expectations for students um as we move through and get better as a School Division those academic expectations will continue to increase that's going to come with increased responsibility outside of school hours recre um increase um workloads expectations like hey you need to get get some homework done we can't just do it all during during the school
081day so today on that point I'm with you expectations I like that thank you Mrs Hodes has a comment Mrs Hodes just kind of give perspective Ives that I've talked with some of my colleagues about is that I think it's fair to say we do want to raise the bar and part of that is what you're talking about the homework um and but we can only do one thing at a time we've done that cell phone and we're try trying to slowly raise that bar because I believe most students can meet that um we just need to set it and give them the supports they need to to meet that agree anybody else have any comments on this topic Mr Morgan yeah excuse me U just some general comments I I've heard and thank thank
082all of you folks for coming by the way I I've heard some really interesting points this evening um being an Oldtimer most of you who know me know that I've been around a while um I'd like to go back I know um Mr Dobson made mention of the grading scale when he was in school I'll go back a step farther than that when I was in school you had to make a 75% to pass 74% was failing U some years after that it was lowered to 70% to pass 69% was failing it is currently 60% to pass 59% is fa so it's hard for me to sit up here and say that maybe not so much the people sitting up here but School divisions in general have lowered standards we used to make you learn
083or retain or at least remember long enough to pass the test 75% now we're down to um I I don't know where that idea came in because I know it began I believe before the No Child Left Behind was um adopted or signed into law but either way the way I look at it it's we are lowering our standard lowering expectations of our students um as someone pointed out earlier we no longer teach cursive I don't know the reasons for that I've been told it's because everything is electronic it's on computers with email mail yada yada it's no need to learn cursive so you go to the bank to borrow money to buy your first home how you going to sign your name maybe the bank doesn't require it I don't I don't know um
084IEPs and 504s let me give you an example and I know I'm I'm maybe getting a little bit in the weeds here uh most of you know that I taught carpentry at Matthews high school for several years and so I'm a little bit familiar with IEPs and 504s I had a student that um had one of those ear pieces in his ear and it's not it's a major distraction and I repeatedly asked that Student please remove that earbud airod whatever it is that they call them and he said I don't have to it's in my 504 well teachers do get copies of every students's uh every one of their students 504 so I looked it up real quickly sure enough he could have his earpiece because part of his 504 said he could listen to
085music so another distraction another distraction um hopefully that's has changed or will change um someone mentioned um the blocks being so long and when I was teaching my students even commented on that as well um 90minut blocks and if you have most of your CTE courses when you get into second and third year they're double block so you've got those students for three solid hours it's a long time to entertain a teenager uh and that's that's literally what you have to do you have to hold their attention you have to keep them engaged um and and I think a fair assessment would say they've got about a 30 to 45 minute attention span and you get them for three solid hours maybe that's something it needs to be reconsidered um many many moons ago when
086I went to school we only had six blocks well let me change that let me rephrase that we had six blocks today there are four blocks per day but the a day bday schedule totals eight blocks so you can have eight courses or you can have a couple coup of double block courses at any rate many years ago we had six blocks every day did not change the school day began at 900 a.m. ended at 3 took five minutes off each block to make a 30 minute lunch and then you had two three four minutes between classes whatever it was worked fine I don't think there were any real serious issues with it now I'm told the reasoning is six courses is not enough to offer we have to offer them eight look at look
087at their um success rate today versus 40 years ago 50 years ago I guess and I'll leave it at that um high expectations you're not going to get and and I can say this because I was self-employed for a number of years and I've also had a few jobs in my life where I worked for other companies you never get any more out of anyone than you expect if you are hiring people to work for you and you don't expect them to get to work on time you don't expect them to produce they're not going to keep our expectations High otherwise you're not going to get very good performance [Music] um perhaps I've said too much but I I've heard so many comments that I I just felt like I needed to throw a few
088comments in of my own thank you very much for listening um I was working at the high school when the um the grading scale changed and the motivator behind changing it had to do with students not uh students getting ready to go off to SEC U postsecondary education and missing out on scholarships because we had such a um small window for our A's and then our B's um and so students would be getting B's at Matthews students at other schools would be getting A's and so that would automatically keep our students from being competitive when it came to scholarships so I do want to clarify that it's not anything that I'm aware that the state has done the federal government has done it's something that was done at a local basis um and the school
089board approved it so it's fair to say that if there was an appetite to tighten that up it would it would come locally um unless Dr Daniels is aware of something from the state that that defines that for us or sets that for us um I will say that I I've come to realize that the alpha grade is can be a misnomer because it can be anywhere from a 90 to an to a 100 I I personally prefer that students get that numeric grade which really defines it much better you're a 96 or you're a 90 or you're an 85 um but that's never caught any traction um in Virginia I know that in Maryland that they do some school divisions do that but I think that's a more accurate um reflection of what the
090student uh is achieving it's it's um it's it's a very narrow one and that would then in itself um not not keep them from competing with other students for scholarships because of the alpha grade thank you um just to clarify we do teach cursive it gets it start started in second grade continues in third grade continues in fourth grade um so cursive for the record is taught um is it um are students handing in cursive essays all the way through school anymore no not as much because they're submitting um typed papers typed things through digital formats and things along those lines so I don't think it's um part and partial to everything that students see and turn and read is in cursive like it once was but we do um still teach cursive again starting
091in second grade and third grade and and fourth grade to clarify that um in terms of grading scale um in a previous Division I worked with um that division as it was exploring adjusting its grading scale um it was probably a year-long process examining um pros and cons and you can spend days talking about grading scales what are you grading why are you grading it um um the rigor of is the grading scale the measuring stick and does the measuring stick matter so for example the analogy often is well a grading scale can be like are you measuring it in Celsius or in Fahrenheit what you really need to be it doesn't really matter what that grading scale is or what that scale is what's important is what is being taught and what the expectations
092are for what we're asking students to do the rigor isn't in the scale the rigor is in the activity um so I mean you could we could spend days going round and round and having conversations um but in that other division the conversation was very much what Miss hajes was referring to that division students the the parents and the students felt they were at a disadvantage when competing for spots in competitive four-year universities and scholarships based on a grading scale um that their um gpas were not as high as some other students and that can factor into what classes are weighted I mean do you wait is a c weighted is a d weighted are CTE courses that are dual enrollment weighted so that again we days and days can be spent talking about grading
093scales and the overall grading practices and and like you could again there it's it's a It's The Never Ending Story thank you for that clarification that is helpful is there anyone who would like to approach for the third time Miss Pride conversation and Miss just thank you for explaining that I was wondering when it all changed and do I think it made our children less overachieving yes and I'm sorry that happened because actually it should be based on Merit and when you have a 10 point from 90 to 100 my goodness anyway fortunately my children didn't have to go that route um I do have one question I was at the school board the meeting the other night and we were discussing the budget and the guy next to me he was real quick on
094his mathema mathematics and I wasn't so I will ask you how much money per capita per student are we spending I know where Academy is like 13 750 or something per student I don't know I don't know I don't know and I I don't know what that number is off the top of my head it's not a metric that I look at um so I I don't I would have to go look I don't know and you just can't make that straight calculation from the overall budget number divided by number of students and I I have I am guy next to me calculated it really really quick and I just wanted to know if it was accurate but that's not going to be accurate doing it that way excuse me was it close to 20,000
095it was a little bit more than 20,000 per student it's somewhere around there if you're taking that raw number the gross number and dividing it by the number of students that we have you'll get a a big number like that but the way that the budget is compiled it does not um I know that's the easy way to to call it that's the easy way to call it there's not an easy way to answer your question it is more complicated than that and that sounds like and I'm avoiding the question um you can look at it that way and and we'll just call it okay that's what it is but it is not that number um but I would have to get with the finance people to be able to articulate it I cannot articulate
096that unfortunately at this moment and that involves in all the maintenance that we need to do on our schools that he took the big number and he divided 725 into it and that's how he came up with that I think and I didn't know if the budget involved the maintenance that we really need in this school system you got teachers get paid different organ uh from different government different ways got like Title One Title 9 title two and all that's paid different am I right um somewhat um we don't get any money from Title Nine um but in terms of we but whatever we get from federal title programs is included in the budget yeah I would say a lot of the variable going into the budget and I would say part of the reason
097ours is um probably per student higher than some of our neighboring School divisions um is part of that is transportation we have to run 15 bus routes um because of we don't have a high population density within Matthews so we have to run relatively um a lot of bus routes to pick up students to get them to school um and that's um when I kind of compare when I when I'm trying to figure out like where where can I find cut some money how can I shrink where you know where are some what are other divisions doing um one of the things that I hit on was was transportation and so I kind of looked at it other divisions where I've worked and kind of trying to pull their budgets and what are they spending
098for transportation our transportation is relatively High um because our kids are spread out down these narrow necks uh within Matthews and I'm not going to fill a bus in 15 minutes and bring them in like our bus routes now are hour hour and 20 minutes and even then they're not full um so we have to relative to other divisions our size spend a disproportionate of money on Transportation is that the whole thing no it's not um but we're looking to the areas is you know class sizes so how do we you know kind of increase class sizes that's fewer teachers but the flip side of doing that is then that teacher is teaching multiple preps so I'm now asking that teacher to not just teach this one content I need that teacher to teach two
099sometimes three different content areas which is an an additional burden on that teacher to plan prep grade assess um for that but it it's kind of what you have to do in a small division to move from having a class of say eight students to making it a class of 18 students but now I need that teacher to fill their instructional day to also pick up a different content area so now they're teaching two or three different content areas um to have fewer teachers but they have to wear more hats if you will and if I could just add to that I think did I understand you to say we're Academy me I don't think they serve lunches there either at least they used to not they previously did not so we have lunch figured
100in our budget as well additionally there are a lot of I thought I thought meals were free here they are okay talking about you I think you I maybe I misunderstood you I thought you referenced the cost for wear Academy maybe I misunderstood yeah wear Academy is right but they don't they don't have the cost of lunches they don't have the cost I suspect of running transportation for the most part parents bring that or they I suspect they pay extra they also don't have this cost of special education services which really could be very costly some of which we capture back um but probably not quite 50% so you don't have that in a private school and that would vary School Division by School Division so sometimes it's app comparing apples to oranges to bananas
101because those figures are very fluid and and so I think you need to make sure that each one is looking at the same information and uh to come up with a per cost per student yeah I totally forgot about the 30% IEPs thank you plus Transportation you got aging buses and transportation but you know every time I go by y'all our schools yeah well we have more parents bringing students than anywhere I ever saw I have to wait in a line way down there because the parents are bringing unfortunately we still have the few that we have to go get thank you and homework homework homework yes I'm glad you're thinking about it thank you do we have anybody else who is no thank you thank you Penny P St hudgin I just wanted to
102make a comment about the curse of I I've been listening to all of the school board discussions you wonder why I'm here I know you ask I'm just listening I care about two things one of them is coming up Friday and I'll be very involved in that but uh the cursive you're only teaching it through fourth grade well I just want to give you a a a a sample of what's happened with one child I only know one child who was in the school system has moved to Gloucester I think he's a sophomore now and his grandmother is giving him cursive lessons because he doesn't know how to write cursive and he he was here in that in in that grade in fourth grade so I don't think children necessarily retain that uh and so
103I'm not sure that that's adequate uh and uh it's it is important I mean I know it sounds stupid but I my schooling was back in the 75 was passing days and we had cursive through high school and and handwriting so I mean it was it was really a different world I guess it sounds like it was a very different world thank you I would like to make a comment about that you know cursive is best taught in the second half of second grade and um and then sort of fulfilling through third grade and fourth grade if you don't use it you will lose it there's no doubt about it as goes to being able to read and write incursive and that is a lost art of course they used to teach calligraphy in the
104way back years before any of us were were here so but I calligraphy you were you had calligraphy in School Miss PESA well okay well then pardon me um writing goes to the ability to write in general goes the ability to communicate the your thoughts and it is a very high level skill whether it is printed or written using cursive whatever form of cursive you use um cursive will relieve some of our students who have difficulty with print it will relieve them of the burden of the block nature of print construction and by uh having the connectivity uh associated with writing in a denan pattern for example with the with a circular motion it will help the fluency of writing so it's definitely uh not to be considered something that should go out of favor
105although it does it goes in and out of favor it is very difficult to teach but again with cursive the uh approaching that with a little bit of a more developed student and older student they're more ready for writing at that age than in the beginning when we're teaching the print so it is definitely a worthy Endeavor and I highly support that it it continues on I just wanted to throw in that little tidbit of information and thank you for coming up and and making all of these really wonderful comments tonight um does do we have anyone else who would like to approach we did you have are you at three Miss Christenson we're at three come on up you get your third here you go here you go um I just had I wanted
106to comment to to Mr Dobson about the teacher packages or packages and teachers coming back um you know I don't see that I don't see that from I don't see that happening for a long time just based on the salary the insurance I've you know read about the increases and how you guys were trying to help and Board of Supervisors everybody's trying to help but um it it's just it's hard it's hard for everyone right now and a teacher's package isn't what it used to be especially with the cost of living here in a county like this and the lack of housing options um and as Dr Daniel said the bottleneck of society too it's I just don't know many that want to get into it me being one so but also real quick cursive
107I'm laughing because you have a specific teacher at the high school right now who uses cursive um when students kind of get a little extra and he uses it kind of as a a lesson to bring them back down where they get to write the Gettysburg address in cursive and I've subbed for him before and it cracks me up because I'll come in and see a stack of papers sometimes and I don't know that he's doing it as much this year but there are some kids that have written the Gettysburg address in cursive whether it's correct or not or legible many times and it's just it's comical but I can say I'm on the other side of a century the the worst side I'd say coming up on one I don't write in cursive anymore
108at all um my signature is the only thing I can do I can read it I can read my mom's I can read my my in-laws but my kids have started it they still bring home worksheets here and there and you know trying to do it but it's just not we can fight about it and scream about it but it's not happening it's just the Changing Times and the the way it is they're not going to do it once they leave your classroom or the Gettysburg address um in we'll see I I would love to see it but I just don't see it happening so and my child's bus is is full almost every day just to comment on that so it's they're doing a great job too but thank you thank you Miss Christensen
109that cursive it is a use it or lose it skill if they get it when they're developmentally appropriate to learn it and then they continue to use it the motor patterns will remain they will have it and to the comment on signing a signature is legal with an X there's no necess no necessity to have a signed a cursive form signature although it is highly desire Parable and I would recommend it is there anyone else who would like to approach are there any additional board member comments Miss Diggs I'd just like to also thank you all for coming out tonight and speaking up because I think our dialogue and question and answers have been uh productive and um we appreciate you all being here last week it was pretty white out there so thank agreed
110thank you any further comments Dr Daniel there being none our meeting is a