001art where it used to be has been repealed. >> Um I forget the the year that that Ross shared with me. Um so we don't even know if it is possible but I do want the board to know that we do take civics very seriously. We do teach it to our students and we do expect them to be proficient. Um and you more than welcome to come to any government class. We're in the second semester of government right now um with the 4x4 schedule and you can ask me any question you want about anything you think they should know and uh my money is on them to be proficient in that. So u Mr. Pano that's pretty much a summary of what I have a lot more information I can share with the board um
002but we've done preliminary research uh related to it. So it would also involve uh some public review. If we did go forward with an additional graduation requirement, we would have to think of a lot of different things. Uh we have certain students on certain diploma tracks um in which it may not be appropriate for um if you did go down that. So I mean there are lots of layers to it. It's not as simple as just putting in a test and moving forward. Um so be happy to answer any questions. I do have my resident expert in attendance um so I can always defer to him. Does anybody have any questions or comments? Please. >> I'm curious. Do do they even look at anything like uh you know a a civics test? Um like like
003I remember when I became an American citizen, you know, I had to study and and take that test. Yeah. Do they have anything like that? >> Yeah, our students do something very similar. Um, but in that test and the way it's constructed is it's sort of randomized in the questions you get and is so >> I've shared to constituents and to board members that we do that in government currently [snorts] and the feedback I received is it may not be rigorous enough in the way that test is constructed. But that is just one piece right >> of what we do. Yes. Um, >> and but not every high school student takes >> every high school student. Oh, they do. >> Well, >> most 99% of high school students, >> even whatever track they're on, >>
004advance the standard diploma. Yes, ma'am. Uh, government is a graduation requirement. As is u civics and economics in eighth grade, you have that course, too. So, um, and then all of the civic strands from kindergarten, you know, kindergarten, we start learning about community helpers all the way through branches of government, um, and so on and so forth. So, uh, >> yeah. >> Yep. >> Do you have, sorry, Mr. Chair, >> please work session, please just talk. >> Okay. Do you have kind of an estimated timeline as to when do you think you'll hear back from the VOE on that inquiry >> of whether it's even permissible to we've been kind of um shipped around a little bit. So, we're waiting on the second or third person to um there's quite a bit of turnover there.
005So, the keeper of the knowledge is not necessarily there anymore. So, we're trying to get to the next person um and make sure we give you an answer. So, that feedback we got was just from today. So, as soon as we have it, I'll be happy to share with the board. >> You'll just email us. >> Yeah, I can do that. Absolutely. >> Um >> yeah, I I would recommend that we not move forward or do anything with this until we hear back from the Virginia Department of Education. uh we may be in a long drawn out discussion andor making plans that in fact are not going to happen because they're they're not legal. The second thing is and and we'll um ask Mr. Rhyr when he gets back. I believe that this was predicated
006on the understanding or misunderstanding that our students aren't graduating with a full understanding of the constitution andor proper history and um with with less um pride in our country and such and so forth. And if I I I just before we move on, I want to hear um um what what is the catalyst behind changing our civics um to whatever the I I haven't seen or you know the specifics what would be the impetus be behind making this change and and I'm I'm guessing from what I'm hearing we'd have to ask for an exception from the V VOE >> in order to make this happen anyway because it's not in place. >> Correct. >> Yeah. For the state it is assumed underneath government that Pacific's piece is right >> part of that piece. >> So
007I I'm just I'm just curious and I would like to have that answered before we move ahead with this. >> One of the questions Mr. of what I completely agree that I often say and they'll probably say if you know what problem are we trying to solve. >> Yes, exactly. I don't know what that is. >> So, and there may be a national narrative around civics and civic and pride in country, but I mean you all just came from our Veterans Day assembly. You'll find very few people that do that across every like there's great pride in county, there's great pride in country in Newton and we take that very seriously um across all grade levels. So, and like I said, I mean, you come hang out with us in government and uh Miss Fun,
008Miss Nebraska have been with our government kids a couple times in some roundt situations and um you know, they ask a lot of questions to county leaders and kind of put hold everybody to task on. So, >> well, yeah, and there's a scripture that says don't worry about tomorrow. It has troubles of its own. Um I think we should probably that's that's a good bit of wisdom. And I would just like to know what problem are we trying to solve? Yeah, I was impressed when we were at the uh at Quinton Elementary not too long ago. Yes. >> And the secretary came and read to the students as part of uh reading revolution for the 250 celebration. And were they third third and fourth graders? >> Oh, that we're Yes, we're up at fourth. I
009I was blown away that some of the answers that these students gave and honestly I was like I felt so proud and so happy >> that they were able to answer questions that some adults can't even answer. >> One of them >> so that was a good sign. I was very very impressed. They asked good questions. >> I'm sorry. One of the students answer she goes nobody has been able to answer this yet on her tour. I forget which which specific question it was but that's a good point. There were there were some very >> hard questions that they were able to answer and they were so enthusiastic. >> So that's coming from somewhere. >> Yes. >> So it's not >> I mean or that didn't sound broken to me. >> Right. And what's impressive
010is that's at the elementary school level, >> right? >> That's the foundation. So if they're already getting that strong foundation, I would assume, right, that once they get to middle middle school and eighth grade, I taught sixth grade social studies. We did some, you know, government founding documents, etc. But by six by eighth grade, that's that's the indication. If if they're not scoring well, perhaps if we look at that and we're seeing that their scores are abysmal, then maybe there's some justification, but we'd really have to dive in and really is it really a problem? >> Yes. Thank you. >> Yes. So, just real quick, Citizen Economics covers the roles of citizens in US political and economic systems. includes foundational principles of the US and Virginia constitutions, citizen rights and responsibilities and the structure of
011government at the local, state, and national levels. That's a summary of what your eighth grade year is. >> Yeah. And I mean really um one of the main things is making sure that they do have access to primary sources, right? Primary documents and all that and they can analyze these documents, etc. Um, but that's that's taking for >> those of you who don't know, in this eighth grade civics and economics class, we are part of the lesson. >> Yeah. >> They put the school board up. They put our pictures up. They talk about us. >> Great. >> That's scary. >> Especially when two of my daughters are in the class. >> Yeah, that's what you asked them. That's why >> they tell me, "Dad, you were up on the thing today." I'm like, "What are
012you talking about?" But yeah, so they are they are doing, you know, at the eighth grade level. >> Can I share something? doesn't get anybody into trouble. But last week, I think it was actually on Veterans Day, I received a call from New Middle School. I answered it. It was one of the government teachers. We didn't think anybody would answer. We were talking about our local government. Thought we'd reach out and say thank you to >> who to call. [clears throat] I got that call, too. I thought it was a junk call. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. I thought I get a text from my daughter. Dad, answer the phone. I'm in court. [laughter] Right. >> How dare you not answer the phone? >> Well, I think >> that was fun to hear. I'm just all
013excited. You know, >> I I think if if if we can nail down the the the problem and if the problem is um you know, the same test that you took, the citizens test or whatever >> time ago. >> Well, but I'm saying >> something like it. >> It has flashcards. It comes in a pack that's that's about half the size of the bottle. >> I remember I had to study. And if and if somebody's concerned about that then we'll make those available but not part of not changing the curriculum make those available for those who want to I mean who want to dive deep >> have fun with it. Maybe even just have a fun contest or whatever you know incorporate it somehow. I don't know without it being a requirement >> or not.
014We could just leave it alone. >> Yeah. >> All right. So I'm I'm going to chime in here. I think we all know that this comes from a certain group of constituents that are very well intended. I think the concept is a good concept. I think it likely comes from a national narrative about pride in our country, which we want all of our kids to have. But I also wonder if there's a little bit of a lack of knowledge here, right? because we we have these classes and the material is being covered and perhaps the constituents simply don't know that, you know, as opposed to just putting this band-aid, hey, let's add a civics test, which is way more complicated than saying, hey, let's add a civics test, right? Why don't we get together this
015information and some of the things that Dr. Nichols just read to us and we can formulate a response to the constituency and, you know, see if that satisfies the itch, which I think it will, and then this thing is put to bed without any formal action. Other than that, uh, and you guys have any comments about that, let me know. But I'm moving to postpone this item to a date and time to be determined. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Miss Kuna has a second. Miss Davis, please pull the board. >> Mr. Blet, >> I. >> Mr. Rosski, >> I. >> Miss Kuna, >> I. >> Mr. Pagano, >> I All right. [clears throat] Motion passes unanimously. that is postponed. Moving on, Mr. Dumbroski, you're up. The VSBA legislative conference, the floor is
016yours. >> All right. So, I sent out the PowerPoint which just outlines there's only three proposed legislative legislative proposals. So what is required of me is when I go to the VSB delegate assembly on Thursday, uh the process is after they provide a lot of different reports and committee information. Um what they just to back up a little bit what they've asked us to do is to discuss these proposals with your entire school board so that you as the delegate can speak to the issues that's necessary. So, three legislative proposals in reviewing the minutes from the last delegate assembly, they make the motion to either to approve them as a block um or somebody can make the motion to break it up and approve one by one. So, depending on what we decide will determine
017exactly whether or not I vote to approve it as a block or we want to break it up. So the first one is and this is an amendment to an already existing proposed or part of their legislative platform regards um assessment reform and accountability reform. And in the highlighted sections or I'm sorry the highlighted the underlined is the only new part to the existing proposal. And it's so the underlying part is Virginia public schools are committed to delivering highquality instruction and ensuring student success. Therefore, BSBA supports legislation to provide school divisions with a minimum of one full academic year to prepare for and implement any major policy changes that affect curriculum, instruction, assessment, or account accountability systems. I'm sure we're all familiar with the fact that the Virginia Department of Education has been about advocating
018for a change in the accountability framework. And so what this to the best of my knowledge is doing is require or asking that as part of the VSBA's legislative platform is that they will be supporting a one-year >> consistency >> one one full academic year to better prepare for the implementation of that system. My understanding is I know they've made some moves on the cut so scores. I know that has plays into this partly but isn't fully. So I'm happy >> just to give you two recent examples. So one is when they changed the the accountability framework and now you're distinguished on track and >> they were making up the rules while we were having to do it. Um, and to date we still don't have the specifics on where we've fallen out because they've
019realized you can't make up the rules while a testing cycle has happened because you don't know all the uh so that's one piece and then the cut score debate. So we brought to you guys that the cut scores are going up. Um they actually the last week the state department or state board voted to delay implementation to next year which is what this legislation would have required. And if you introduce it to a school division or school board, it won't go into effect until the following year. It's just hard to during the year that you've already started and budgeted for and all of this. Play a different game by different rules. Um, and that's kind of the last two things have made us do that. So, I think this is a reaction to um those
020two things. And at the conference Helena and I went to over the weekend with the new everything that will be changing over at the beginning, well, January 21st, >> um, >> this is probably not even necessary at this point that they asked for a one-year delay, but >> that's what they're asking for and love to get any thoughts here. >> Why Why would you say it's not necessary anymore? >> [clears throat] >> because of the delegate assembly makeup that will be coming in in January. My thoughts are that the VDOE will be over will be taken under the new administration. And so I could be wrong just that my thoughts are they're probably going to delay or do something differently anyway. it. >> Yeah, >> this is this is about whether I hear what you're
021saying, but this is about whether we as a school board are behind this type of legislation or not. >> Right. So, I think and I'm not going to speak for everybody, but I am at least behind it, you know, based on some of the stuff that Ross has presented to us and we've seen the implementation of these things and how much they actually have to do to get these things up and running and make changes in reading requirements and math requirements. It just makes complete sense that when we have a set of rules or a whole new paradigm to operate by that we've got a year to implement right and the year goes by really quick. So personally I am in support of this particular piece. >> Let me ask Dr. Nichols is this and
022and Ross this would be a good thing. Yeah. Or >> Yeah. >> Yes. versus then pass basically regulation and say okay today you >> okay so that's I'm yeah I'm on board >> thank you >> yeah I can say from you know my perspective as an educator when I was teaching it's really hard when you've worked really hard on something and then you have to pivot and you know that's a lot of pressure on the teachers and this is all good stuff but we also have to be realistic We also, you know, and the pendulum swings and this is all good stuff, but I think it's wise to allow people to have the time to adjust because it's a lot of pressure on on the on administration, but also the teachers that have to pivot
023and get all this stuff. It's a lot of pressure on everybody. >> I feel the same way. >> How about yourself? >> Yeah. So, I think the board is behind this and >> Okay, >> that would be our uh our take on that one. >> Great. The [clears throat] second one is a brand new position about chronic absenteeism and their proposal is to remove chronic absenteeism as an indicator in accountability and accreditation models used to rate public schools. And I think the thinking behind that one is right now depending on the model you're looking at it's 10% of your overall or 5% depending on and you know chronic absenteeism is an indicator that we can influence but we don't control you we can control whether you to a pretty large degree whether you read proficiently
024or not um but we can't always control whether you come to school or not. So I think this this one comes up annually as a difficult measure. New Kenton does incredibly well in chronic absentee. We have great families and great partnerships. Um, so I know this hits other school divisions harder than it does >> way harder. >> Yeah. As the superintendent, I wouldn't object to it. Um, even I mean I wouldn't object to this legislative position. U, I just I've been other places and I know how hard it is to get kids to school without strong family partnerships. So >> it's hard to enforce. >> Yep. So is this kind of a non-starter for new Kent? Is that what I'm hearing? Like >> it doesn't it currently we do we work very hard at it
025too. So I mean that's another thing. It is an indicator. So we have built a lot of structures to combat it uh and are somewhat successful doing it. We'll continue to do that whether this is a a priority or not. If you're in school you can learn. The data shows that. So we'll always chase it. >> This the chronic absency isn't just for a nuance piece. Um, forever families were conditioned that if you had a note, it was fine, >> right? >> You're excused. Well, it's still excused, but you can still be chronically absent, >> right? >> So, chronic absenteeism is not excused or unexcused. It's you've missed 10% of the school year. And if you've missed 10% of school year, chances are you're not doing well. Um, so that's kind of where all that
026fits in. So, >> so how cuz I've heard some parents like I'm trying to do this, I'm trying to do that. My my kid won't do it. I'm having issues and then I'm getting letters almost like threatening >> you are. And so my what's that? >> Yeah, you are. If you're not coming to school, you definitely for us. But I I my heart goes out to these parents who are struggling trying to get their kids to come. And yet I know that being present is important is crucial if they're going to be learning. Um and yet I also know that, you know, being in school is >> essential to be able to learn. And yet I'm just like conflicted. I I don't know that I want to go as far as to say we should
027re we should advocate that the VSBA remove it as a legislative position >> chronic absenteeism. >> So I mean what you're saying makes sense from a parent and and a mom position and all that stuff, but but what we're saying here, what they're proposing is that it's removed as a factor of consideration to rate public schools. Mhm. >> That's That's what they're talking about. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> So, my question is, okay, so it's removed. Does it move the needle in any way for New County? Right. That's what we're talking about right now. Sounds like it doesn't. >> We're we'll still go after the structures we have in place. We we we see great benefit when >> if chronic if chronic sorry if chronic absenteeism was a factor that was keeping our rating down
028and we removed it and our rating went up a little bit, right? That'd be all right. It's a good thing. >> Well, and and the thing is so that let's let's call it 10% that 10% is going to go into other categories. So, you know, it may go into achievement or graduation or three E or you still got to get to 100%. So, it'll shift. And just remember, chronic absenteeism is missing more than 10% of the school year. So, if it's 180 days, it's more than 18 days. So, it's that's a significant amount of time that you're missing the school. So, >> and I think it's there's two different issues here. Um, and I've had to deal with this personally. Um, chronic absenteeism I believe should fall on the parents parenting. And that's not saying
029they have a legitimate reason or they don't have a legitimate reason. Either way, we can't control that. We just simply can't control it. So to have the school system rated by something that's not in our control that we absolutely have nothing to do with um doesn't make sense to me anyway. I think that maybe the legislators ought to talk to the health department or social services about educating the parents on how important this is. So I I don't have any angst with that quite frankly. I think that that's a totally separate issue from good parenting or parenting or and I'm that's probably not fair. It um parenting alone. Um but you know we got to get the kids in school. >> They have to be there. And I know how difficult that is. If the
030kids running the family, guess what? You got a problem bigger than school. >> That's right. >> I'm curious, Dr. Nichols, since you've been here, have you seen a downward trend in UK County or or um or and you know, of course, we had CO and that that really uh impacted a lot. Uh but aside from CO because we always like to use CO as a have you seen even while you you've been here uh a trend reduced chronic absentism and what what do you find is the reason for that? What >> I think across seven years now so I think post pandemic we saw a spike because um >> people got used to not being in school and I can do this virtually and do this piece. I think the last especially three to four
031years we've really worked hard to combat that. So we have seen improvement. We've spent a lot of time talking to families about the importance of being in school and what happens. And you know our high school in the 4x4 block moves incredibly fast. If you miss one day you're missing more than one day uh or more than one period. You're missing two at least. >> So um just sort of that education and really the education about even if it's an excused note, you're still not there. So you're still missing. So we've seen that go down. Um which is a good thing. Um the high school has instituted a seat recovery time. So if you are on the verge of being chronically absent, you are likely staying after school with us to get additional seat time.
032U so >> it's a good motivator. >> Yes. It's not their favorite thing to do. So and um we've kind of worked with families on that piece too. So, I definitely think across the past couple years, we've seen a a good trend um in school attendance. A lot of people like to give away a bike because kids are here all year. That doesn't really No. >> Um you really have to get to the heart of of why kids not there. So, um our school social workers, um our counselors and the whole team really wraps around and a lot of our school based mental health work is about making sure that people are ready to come to school and solving any of those problems that are prevent. Apparently some districts even wanted to pay students to
033be in I mean I think that's a going down a very slippery slope. >> Has the chronic absenteeism factor been included in the accountability accreditation system for a number of years >> for quite some time through a couple iterations. It was introduced I forget how many years ago but prior to me even coming here. So you know at least decade that it's been in there. as the accountability model shifts it it's still in there to a degree. So yeah that's not a new phenomenon but it is one that um schools division similar to what Mr. was saying it's like, you know, we can influence it. We can put the things in place, but we need we need help. >> That's the only indicator that plays out that way, you know. >> So, if it were
034to be removed from the accountability and accreditation model, how would or would it affect the way that we respond to these? >> It wouldn't it wouldn't have a ton of impact on on what we do. Ross is shaking his head. I'm thinking he wants to say something. Our social workers already meet with parents and we have attendance meetings with them um mostly in regards to more I say truency which is more unexcused absences >> u and but it would take some of the or some of the issues away from excused absences um and which is sort of what blows it up with chronic absenteeism and so it wouldn't really impact the way we work with parents as much other than um really focusing in on basically students who are truent so we have no reason
035why they're out there being out >> right good to know >> thank you what's the next one >> did we are we all on board with uh >> I mean it seems to me that it it's doesn't move the needle for new kent and supporting the removal of it might help the districts that are impacted most by it that really need the help right so it's kind of counterintuitive so I'm I'm behind it. >> Okay. Everyone else. Okay. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. It's easier to say I'm behind it because we don't have an issue in our [laughter] >> Yeah. >> But if we did, you'd be more behind it, I think. Either. >> Yeah. Right. Right. Right. >> Okay. >> And the last one is an enrollment cap for virtual Virginia. And this is also
036a an amendment to existing legislative position. Um there's quite a bit of information. I don't want to bore you with all of it >> of >> but what they're ask is this the same situation where just the underlying stuff is being changed. >> That is correct. >> Gotcha. >> Um so what they want to do is the enrollment cap in virtual Virginia should be increased from its present capacity to accommodate more students to participate including advanced courses in a cost-effective manner that may not be offered in school divisions without qualified staffing. So to try and summarize a lot of what the backstory behind it is that if a student wants to take a specific class and we don't offer it at new they could take it at virtual Virginia academy but if we reach a
037certain number of students then Virginia virtual academy that's the cap. We can't have any more students. Um, so their legislative position is that if the class is not offered in the school, then they should be able to attend virtual Virginia Academy even if it goes beyond the existing cap. So it's >> so it's removing that cap. >> Removing the cap. >> Remove the cap so more students can have access. So more students can have access. The rationale is this legislative budget priority raises the free enrollment cap that will provide additional flexibility to divisions wishing to alleviate staffing issues by using the state's virtual Virginia program while expanding opportunities for students. >> And they did expand it initially said especially AP course advanced placement courses but they yes expand it to include because it's really dual
038enrollment and those types. So they did expand the definition. >> Thank you >> Ross. Yes sir. you you're doing the thing that you're ready to jump in again. So, >> oh no, it was it was actually when in the language that you were using to explain it because you went back and forth between Virtual Virginia and B Virginia Virtual Academy, which are two legitimate two different things. >> So, when you read it there at the end, I was waiting to hear it. When you read the end, it was Virtual Virginia, which should be right. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Virtual Virginia is a statewide vehicle that we all utilize. Virginia virtual, just to confuse it even further, is a private >> Okay. vehicle that is utilized by a certain school. >> Wow. Okay. >> So, we'd
039be in favor of a cap increasing. Not only does it help when we're not offering a course, but it also helps kids when the course doesn't fit their schedule. So, I need to take government, but I'm doing this. Our kids do nine million different things and it doesn't always fit. So, we can use that vehicle there. But, they're right. It does. Those spots um go quickly. >> Yep. Okay. I'd be in favor of that. >> Just a point of clarification. So there's there's a cap on the free. >> Correct. >> When that cap is reached, you can pay and still do it. >> Correct. >> So we're increasing the >> accessibility to the free >> would be the legislative position. >> Okay. >> Well, it also has the underlined technology and online courses such as
040virtual Virginia can provide a cost-saving alternative for school divisions. Virtual Virginia state-run online course offerings has an overall cap on the number of students in the Commonwealth that can enroll in its online courses and then underlined at no cost to localities. >> Right. If you read the last sentence says once the cap is reached divisions must pay for additional students. >> Oh yeah. Thank you. >> And and once again we're incredibly fortunate. I say fortunate we work hard to be fortunate. The number of dual enrollment teachers we have you saw at the last board meeting we have course proposals for a couple more AP courses. We do plan a couple new DE courses, DE chemistry, for example, coming on board next year. So, we're in a great spot that um you know, I shared with
041you, we have 13 students on track to get an associates degree um with our partnership with RCC. But hey, we will not turn down more opportunities for our kids and this group was provided. >> Excellent. >> For the record, we're all behind it. Is that right? >> Yeah, that's what I'm here. >> Yes. >> There you go, Heather. >> You got your legislative duties ahead of you. >> Thank you. Thanks for doing that. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> Now we're on to unfinished business. Miss Kuna, you are up with the superintendent evaluation. >> Yes. Um, as you know, uh, this seems like so long ago, was it this past summer, I had shared, um, a proposed uh, revision of how we do the superintendent summitive evaluation. I know Dr. Dr. Nichols and I had
042an opportunity to discuss. We met. Um, and we never really had a chance to review things. Um, I had two board members share feedback on Bradsky and Mr. Pagano. Thank you for that. And based on their feedback, the draft I shared here with you is based on the feedback that they gave and kind of compromise. Um what I tried to do because if you remember when we did the evaluation the other day there's so many performance indicators you know and some of them are so redundant and even so these different categories there are eight standards right and for each standard I tried to limit it to four three to four bullets [snorts] um and sifting through all the options and sometimes I use the language that was in some of the the packets that we
043got and then and I provided feedback. Uh I mean Mr. Pagano and Mr. Andasi provided feedback. So what I like to do is make sure to go through the eight standards, the four bullets to make sure that everybody's okay with the language in the bullets. Now I will say and I tried to correct this and again it came out wrong. It's it's my fault. I don't know what happened. But when we get to standard two, the second bullet should read like this and it doesn't read like this. and it sounds confusing. So it's just the word one word can mess it up. Sorry, which one is this? So but in anyway let's start with standard standard one strategic leadership and go through these um we did this the other day but just focusing on the
044indicators that I came up with based on the feedback. The first one is leads a development of a shared vision that encourages collaboration among staff and stakeholders while working closely with the school board to develop and implement policies that promote continuous improvement. Um, >> beautiful. >> Does that sound good? I mean, sounds great. >> Again, um, Mr. V, I know you were, you know, >> in disposed, but I wanted to give you an opportunity today to provide your feedback. supports and enforces all schoolboard policies and informs all teachers, staff, and constituents of changes to the policies. Third bullet, fosters a professional and respectful environment, keeping the school board informed of key issues and ensuring smooth day-to-day operations. And the last one, maintains safe and productive schools, promotes external partnerships, and ensures accountability through delegation and
045effective policy recommendations aimed at improving student outcomes. I don't think we need to have 10 boundary indicators. Um the reason why I added that chart and this was a recommendation through the model by the VDOE. Um what ineffective effective approach approaching effective effective and highly effective would look like and you know for some people this is more difficult than others especially when the language is foreign to them. uh you know I'm in the field of education so this to me is pretty easy but for others it may not be and so we don't have to include the chart at the bottom notice it's rating in comments now we've been using the format where you know it's um what is it a uh was it a Google >> Google doc and you just you know had
046to go in and and put the bubble um so we can decide on format if if this you think is too much. Um anyway, standard two planning and assessment that I sure this will help me >> and and maybe the board. So for standard one these are the four indicators that I would provide documentation and evidence for in order to be rated >> highly effective to ineffective. >> Yes, I apologize. Yes, >> that's okay. So the other six to eight I should not I still have to do that because it runs a school division but just not right >> well they may fall in other categories >> right and you'll see >> the idea here is to is to streamline and you know we had the benefit of just doing this you last week or
047whatever and it's adnauseium like over and over and over again. You know, we just talked about these four topics and we're talking about them for three other standards and we're it, >> you know, it it's really an a burdensome form that's just verbose for no reason than to be verbose >> and redundant. >> So the Yeah. And the idea was just to kind of streamline, narrow it down, make it make sense. Some of the words that are used in the form, I mean, I'm a pretty smart guy. I don't know what the hell it means, right? And so just clarifying what that is and how we go on to how we go on to use it moving forward. Um, Miss Kuna, I would just say at the bottom with respect to the definitions of of
048the categories one, two, three, four, >> it's nice to have a key. Maybe we have that in one spot. Don't necessarily need it every single time. >> That's what I was going to recommend. Just have it maybe for the first one, uh, so people get the gist. Yeah. and then not have to repeat it for the other standard. >> Dr. I'm just >> just know I'm looking at this from whatever you put forward is what I'm evaluated on. That's kind of how it works. >> Um what I'm looking is like how do I document that? For example, I'll just pick one supports and enforces schoolboard policies and informs all teachers. Like how do I present that? just is for us to think for you know a year from now or or however long like what
049do I provide you that shows that I've done that or do I not do that and you guys decide um my take on is it I don't know that it's any different than all the stuff you've already provided in the packets in the last two years and and that's not nec maybe the wording is different but that's not necessarily something that's new >> right it's it's in the old evaluation form in one form or fashion so >> um again I think we're reinventing the wheel here. Just trying to clean it up. >> And and as far as informing all teachers, staff, and constituents of policies or any changes, how do you do that? I mean, how do you do that now? >> Right. >> But and we do it now. It's just in terms of
050to hand it to you as a document that I've done it is. >> Well, that just as >> that could be for you to figure out what's the most effective, easiest way to do that. Well, here's the other side of that. Um, I don't know that we necessarily determined or made decisions predicated on what you've presented wholly anyway because some of it you can't. I don't think that you can >> you really document those things. But we look at for instance you did a in a strategic plan you did a chart and most recently you did a a chart on number of infractions. second and so on and so forth. I look at that and and determine okay yeah and and the other part of that is is it enforcing policies or is it implementation
051or you know where is the the shortfall so you can't I don't think that's something that you can create or put out on paper but in another uh another issue talking about the the keys I noticed as you go through the keys um really you've set them up to apply apply to the particular performance standard. It looks like they change. >> Yeah. >> Well, if you look at the if you look at it, it applies to the the wording of in the standard. So, for example, performance standard one, strategic leadership. The superintendent creates, monitors, and facilitates the process of strategic improvement and seeks to ensure the division's mission, vision, and goals are fulfilled in a manner that enables all students to be career and college ready and globally competitive. Right. So if you look at
052effective, you look at the language, it ties to the standard. >> Well, that's what I'm saying. Therefore, I wouldn't do away with a key. >> Okay. >> Because they're different. And that may help >> that may help. I mean, they correspond to the standard. >> Yeah. >> They're not they're not all the same. >> Because it gives you rubber standard. >> It gives you the nuance, you know, like what's the difference between effective and highly effective. And I think even when when we were having these conversations the other day, it might have been helpful to look at that and say, "Okay, there there there's a nuance, right?" But it's really up to the board. >> Well, I think if these the key goes along with the the performance standard. So I don't know you you
053it may be we may end up with a difficulty >> explaining effective as it is in standard perform performance standard one with say performance standard three it it may not be as applicable. So my I'm just saying let's keep the keys as you have them along with the standard. >> Well I appreciate your feedback >> and then that would make sense. >> Okay >> all the way through the process it would clarify. >> Okay. Go ahead. Can we move on? I'm sorry. >> I was just say going back to Dr. Nichols question about how do I show you that I've supported enforced all scoreboard policies. I think of the cell phone policy. You made that you incorporate that as part of your video into back to school. Um I'm sure you held meetings with staff
054to talk about it. That would be a great way something that you could include in that end of your report. Um any other policies? Um yeah it would just be great to know like on an ongoing basis this is what I did to implement it >> and so many of the policies I appreciate that feedback so many of the policies don't impact most of the organization right right you know cell phone is is sort of the the abnormality but I I definitely think when there is something of that high profile or 9 million things but when it's a >> if it's a you know section B we'll talk about policy committee you know that is really going to be an internal piece because it's financially driven and then right and those goods and stuff. Okay.
055>> And I think out of fairness, if during the evaluation, if there's not enough information to support a decision, then at that point in time, we ask for more information or we ask for clarifying information. If we can't make a decision with what he's put together, >> then if that isn't adequate, sufficient, or enough, then we we just we go back and say, "Okay, you know, we we need more information >> and that's fair as opposed to preparing it >> and not needing it. >> That's a very good point. And again, like you mentioned the other day, some of the stuff is on us as a board to reach out and say we like to see evidence of this and and so we can't uh fault Dr. Nichols if we haven't done our due diligence.
056If we're expecting something and we don't ask for it, that's not on him. That's on us. Well said. >> Should we go on to standard? >> Let's move. >> Planning and assessment. A superintendent strategically gathers, analyzes, and uses a variety of data to guide planning and decision-m consistent with established guidelines, policies, and procedures that result in student academic progress and improve student outcomes. Now for this I included and and Johanna was kind enough to make a copy some definitions because those of us that are not in the field of education we see some of this language and even it's it's complex. Um so for standard two I had three questions and I actually googled and used AI um because I didn't want to do the work and find it all myself. First question, what does
057it mean to apply research-based analytical techniques in education? And I'm not going to read all that for you. You can review that yourself. Second question for uh that's for standard 4. Never mind. Okay. So, I included what that means to help you because when we look at the four bullets and again Miss Dumbrosky and Mr. Pano had provided feedback. First bullet leads the collabor collaborative development and implementation of the strategic plan using current data to establish both short and long-term goals and objectives. Make sure these are supported by measurable performance indicators and regularly regularly monitors and reports progress to the school board. Is everyone okay with that first one? >> Yes. >> Okay. Second bullet. And this is the one where I had to give you the correction because the word data shouldn't have been
058there. Ensures instructional programs meet federal and state standards by leveraging external resources, gathering relevant data data, and applying research-based analytical techniques. And this is where oh I don't know what that means. So I pro I provided what it means and I could just read the first paragraph of what it means. I don't have to get into I gave you examples. Okay. Applying research beta analy researchbased analytical techniques in education involves using systematic objective methods derived from scientific study to gather, interpret and use use data to understand and improve educational practices, outcomes, and policies. These techniques move beyond intuition or anecdotal evidence to rely on rigorous evidence-based methodologies. Now, of course, we're not expecting this for every little thing, right? We have to be reasonable, but certainly, and I'm sure they're doing this because they're professionals.
059They're educators. So, how do we feel about bullet number two? And please, Dr. Nichols, um, surely provide your input. >> We have a research base on almost everything we do, so it doesn't change. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> And that's why you're having the success you're having. >> Yeah. My intuition is not stronger than this. [laughter] >> Can you give me an old like a just just a regular example? Because I'm going to tell you, I'm the one that's hung up with this language. I don't like this language. I'm a wordssmith as a professional and this language drives me crazy when I'm thinking about how how we're excuse me how we're using it to evaluate the superintendent. >> Yeah. And it means With all due respect to Google and AI and I use it as well,
060this doesn't help me at all. So, researchbased analytical techniques now means systematic objective methods derived from scientific study. You didn't clear anything up for me. >> Well, did you look at some of the uh examples? >> Yes. But but >> can I say how happy it makes me to hear an attorney admit that he [clears throat] >> here's the example of here's the example of systematic analysis >> regression analysis thematic coding or quasi experimental designs >> come on >> can you give them >> so also keep in mind we have no data department or data fist >> just uh you know I will not be running a regression analysis I can promise you >> right thank you >> but you know so just to If you so and the problem with a lot of these
061is that it means a lot of different things. So if you dissect this meets federal and state standards that's [clears throat] one thing and we have a method that we do that with um gathering relevant data um you know just a very simple example um you saw some HMH updates a couple months ago you know that is us that is a researchbased program we're applying data out analytics to it to show that kids are progressing or they're not across the schools just as something that's come to the board uh recently Does that make sense? >> His example made sense. Yeah. The language is the language. >> I think there's a simpler way to say it, but >> the language is awful. >> How how is that a pedagogical strategy? >> I mean, come on. >>
062I you know, I would I would think uh for instance, number two, ensuring >> second bullet that if you when you got down to gathering relevant data >> and applying it >> and it crossed out the rest of that >> gathering and and applying. >> Yeah, gathering. Okay, leave it and applying. Go that far. Go the next two words over. >> Well, there's a difference between gathering data on student performance and then what do you do with it? >> Well, >> right, right. >> You said apply. gathering relevant data and applying and then drop the research based data analytical techniques >> and applying it to >> well let's look at the other >> changes as necessary. >> Let's look at the other two and see if maybe fosters open communication with the schoolboard and key
063stakeholders to encourage continuous feedback that enhances learning opportunities and drives ongoing improvement in student outcomes. Sound good? Okay. seeks and uses human and material resources outside the division that may support and or enhance the achievement of goals and objectives. Okay. So the hang the hangup was that is with number two bullet number two. Um let me ask Dr. Nichols. How might you how how would you simplify that and still make it relevant? >> I think the law um like we so here's what we do. We we gather the data and then we make decisions based on that data. >> Okay? Um, so you know, for example, I was with an online school the other day. Every kid's on a post post-it note and they're moving them around based on their latest assessment scores. So researchbased
064assessment, moving kids into different intervention groups and then changing outcomes for kids like that's what we do on a daily basis across >> everything we do. Um >> so can we say and okay uh by leveraging external resources gathering relevant data and I just had it in my brain it was very simple >> and we have partners from UVA that are helping us do that that I know that does help a couple people on the board of this UVA but the other part is they are >> I think that's enough right enough said >> and applying that relevant data to >> self outcomes >> interest outcomes I had in my brain I went poof and applying >> no just leave it >> I went to and making decisions >> based on >> predicated on yeah
065right findings >> making database decisions potentially I >> yeah I I think we all we're simply asking is >> I just had it >> make certain that we're keeping up and ma meeting federal and state standards And how are you doing that? >> Both >> gathering over the data and using the data to make >> I I was just uh chat gpting and and the term informed decision that was >> using the evidence to make informed decisions. >> Yeah. >> I I think what you're trying to get at there is that it's not a just fly by the seat of your parents. We're just we're doing this and now we're doing this and it's just the exact opposite of how we work. So, >> okay. Um, >> I'm just worried about what evidence you're going
066to give me next year about your youratic coding >> and your pedalical strategies. >> I'm going to work with the Trojan theater and I'm going to put on a one. >> I'm just now exposing I'm just now exposing the issues with AI. Okay. [laughter] I wanted to This is my my little side. I had another alternative. >> Yeah, that is that is going to be a major concern next year. The pedological strategies [laughter] resources gather and >> I can see it. >> Allison, what was that last piece? And >> I was just saying if if you were trying to have a different thing than research based, you know, decisions. Um, so it was informed decisions >> to Okay. Uh so by leveraging external resources gathering in order to make informed decisions >> correct >> does
067that sound good? >> Sounds good. >> Okay, moving on. Is that okay, Miss? >> Excellent. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Standard three, instructional leadership. Superintendent fosters the success of all teachers, staff, division leaders, and students by ensuring the development, communication, implementation, and evaluation of instructional systems. Promote high student achievement and professional development and growth for staff. I only had three here. serves as a primary instructional authority for the school division. Setting clear expectations while overseeing the alignment, coordination, and delivery of instructional programs and curriculum that comply with federal, state, and local standards, all guided by relevant datadriven decisions. You see, that's the same one basically as the other one only stated clearly. >> Much better language. >> So, we can decide to even get rid of the other one if we wanted to. >>
068Let's do get rid of it. Uh next next bullet fosters a culture of excellence within a school division by promoting effective evidence-based decision-making utilizing diverse data sources to enhance organizational performance, educator effectiveness, and student learning. Sound good? >> It's a lot. >> Uh yeah. >> Yeah. Um and >> it does a lot. I really don't recall you saying were you an English major or >> I did it all, honey. >> Okay, that would explain this. >> No, no, no. I wasn't an English major, but >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> This is based on language that was >> Yep. >> Okay. And actually taking from some of the packets that Alice had put together with when you chunk all the information, it was a long paragraph. This is this is all the stuff that
069he does. I mean, pretty impressive, isn't it? >> It is. Okay, next. If I could understand it, I would agree. >> Well, you have to >> I know what he does is impressive. I'm not certain what this says captures that. >> Well, think about this. >> You go that evaluation system, >> huh? >> Just you're happy with what's happening and >> Yeah, that's uh you know, I >> But here's the thing. Okay, here's the thing. This is what we have to remember. This is an evaluation form. Yes, we have Dr. Nichols now. But you mentioned leaving a legacy. Okay. What we have to understand is that at some point Dr. Nichols will not be with us. It'll be someone else. So this is a standard by which superintendents are evaluated. And that's a serious thing.
070They're the head of the administr of the of the organization. >> I'm sold. I'm sold. >> Okay. Next one. works collaboratively with the school board staff and community representatives to identify needs, determine priorities, and foster continuous improvement. I have a recommendation for bullet point number two. Between the commerce, delete the language that starts with the word utilizing and ends with the word performance. We've already said it three times in the last four factors. >> Okay, tell me again now. Fosters a culture of excellence within the school division by promoting effective evidence-based decisionmaking, >> educator effectiveness, and student learning. Okay. So, so utilizing diverse data sources to enhance organizational. Gotcha. >> Got that. >> Educator effectives and student learning. >> That's beautiful. >> Sounds great. And we may want to revisit that standard too. All right.
071Standard four I did provide. What are researchbased theories and techniques as it relates to educ? Okay. Again, this is you know where >> we have fun words. >> All right. Remember she got it all from the original PDF. >> Now remember I got feedback from Pagano and and Dumbroski. So and I had to kind of mesh those together and this is why we need to come to a >> consensus. Now this is making sense to me. [laughter] >> Okay. Standard four >> organizational leadership and resource management. The superintendent fosters the safety and success of all teachers, staff, division leaders, and students by supporting, managing, and evaluating the division's organization, operation, use of resources. We had four for this first one. Facilitates the implementation of researchbased theories. Here we go again. And techniques relating to school
072attendance, parental involvement, student behavior, and school safety to ensure an orderly and positive environment conducive to teaching and learning. The idea is that he is a professional. The division are professionals and they're not just pulling things out of their out of the thin air. He goes to professional [clears throat] development and he's going to use what he learns from his professional development and applies it to the division. Right. Next bullet. implements sound p personnel procedures in recruiting, employing and retaining highly qualified and highly high performing teachers, administrators and other personnel based on identified needs. Next >> and researchbased data. [laughter] >> Can we get >> No. Okay. This is why you should have chimed in when I sent the stuff this summer. Provide staff development support and resources tailored to all personnel categories that enhances
073job performance improvement in alignment with individual needs, program evaluations, and instructional improvement goals. And the last one, plans and implements a systematic performance evaluation system of all employees that provides timely and constructive feedback and recognizes and supports the achievements of highly effective personnel. That's pretty straightforward there. >> Maybe the first one is the hang up there. >> It it is for me. I would completely eliminate the first bullet. >> Okay. Again, we're research based, but if we get beyond that, it's discussing school attendance, parental involvement, student behavior, and school safety when the standard is organizational leadership, >> right? So, you want to just X that one? How does everyone >> I don't think it applies as well. >> Okay. What Mr. Broski, you okay with that? Yep. And we'll just have them three bullets. Okay.
074I'm perfectly great with that. All right. Keep it piffy and keep it clear. All right. Number five, communication and community relations. The superintendent fosters the success of all students through proactive, responsive, and professional communication with the board, staff, families, and other stakeholders. I had three here. Models and engages in timely, proactive, responsive, and professional communication with the school board, staff, families, and stakeholders. fosters an atmosphere of mutual respect and trust with the board, staff, families, and stakeholders, strengthening the bond between schools and the broader community. Boy, do you do that. Uh, unites groups with diverse interests and perspectives, fostering collaboration to address both current and potential challenges effectively. According to all new databased research, >> theatic [laughter] thematic quoted models. >> I'm gonna come up with something to >> I have no insurance. [laughter] >>
075Does that one sound good? >> That's good. >> Is there one for standard six? >> Standard six, define disagregated data as it applies to educational field. Now, this is important and you'll see why if you look at the definition of disagregated data, it is important. uh and look at the examples. Okay. Okay. So, uh the superintendent establishes and implements division goals, priorities, and strategies centered in equity and culturally responsive practices to support achievement of all students. First bullet collaborates with all stakeholders to foster ownership and a shared vision, mission, and core values that support all students and champions a culture of belonging and continuous improvement for every student. Establishes and implements the vision goals and strategies to support achievement of all students using disagregated data to guide priorities and monitor progress. plans, implements, supports and
076enhance assesses the instructional program to pro provide all students with unbiased access to a curriculum composed of high quality content, instruction and materials. I tried very hard to remove language that can be weaponized or whatever and tried to get keep it very much to the point. But the um disagregated data or data is important. Okay? And it's not just about gender or race. It's there are other factors that can affect children and we have to make sure that all these children their needs are being addressed as best we can. Of course, right? >> Good. >> I have no issues. >> Does that make sense? >> Okay. >> Helen, can you just remind me did we only review the data uh the performance indicators or did we also offer suggestions with the overall language of the
077standard? offered suggestions and I included them in this proposal. >> But we did both. I just >> I incorporated Mr. Fraano's and yours because we had to come together as a group and Mr. Ba and well sadly Mr. Rhymer's not here and decide together what was appro you know what we were comfortable with. Right. My my question is did we only add edits to the performance indicators or did we also evaluate and add? We can't we cannot change the language of the standard that comes down from the state. I apologize for not understanding. >> That's right. >> That comes from VDOE. It's from the state and we don't touch that. >> We have ability to decide what our performance indicators are. We don't even have to go with what the recommendations are, but that standard
078language that has to stay. >> Thank you for the remark. um strategies centered in equity. >> What are what are we saying? >> Right. So, >> as opposed to equality. >> Okay, here's the thing. >> Because a standard, as I look at a standard, a standard is a standard and it doesn't >> look at the example, and you're right. Uh, and this has this was something that came about, oh, I would say maybe 10 years ago, it really became a focus. Uh, if you look at the example that they give. >> Well, before we go in the weeds here, hold on, Ron. You're on six. >> Yeah, six. >> And then the up top here, that language. >> Yes. Is that the language from the VDOE? You can't change it. It is because this was
079a standard that they added in the revision I think from 2020. They added this standard. >> Yeah. But my point is that we're trying to make the distinction between equity and equality. We can't if that's the one from VDOE, we can't change. >> So >> yeah, >> as a board, >> we have no ability to change the performance standard. We can only change the indicators. Yes, we can only change the indicators and that's why I tried to soften the language to not have a lot of that really trying. So that's that's interesting >> here. Here here's the thing. Okay, and and I think that the issue with equity and being that I was a teacher, I can understand it. It was taken too far. Okay, there are times where children based on their needs may
080need a little boost up. Okay. Um so in other words the same for everyone may not benefit every child especially for example if you have a sped student right or maybe a child with a disability the the issue and it's become very prickly is race gender etc. Right. And when it's not applied correctly it can go too far. Let me give you an example. I was told you cannot fail a student. Oh, you have to understand there are certain certain economics, you know, situations. They come from a certain economic group and okay, this is where in my opinion it gets sticky because okay, so we're going to keep advancing them, but we're not going to provide the extra reinforcement that child needs to be successful. So that by the time they get to me in
081sixth grade and they're reading at a two grade second grade reading level, but they've been advanced and pass past year after year. How is that helping that child? >> You see, so it's it's nuance. It's difficult. >> Well, what described was very specific. >> Yes. >> This is not >> right. >> This applies across the board for every situation as it is written. and the expectation >> that's not that's out of my control. >> Well, and that's why I'm asking. I didn't realize that we had we couldn't >> I Dr. Nichols, >> I didn't realize we could the answer to that. >> I didn't realize we couldn't. >> We can look into it, but and I I had shared u I'd have to go back. I had shared a slide presentation that had information about
082all the standards. Let me let me double check and I'll get back. >> We're obviously going to work on an edited version of this with a couple of the changes in the language. So maybe we can bolster that presumption and make sure we're accurate there. >> Yes. I it if if I'm wrong about that, I will get back to you. If I >> I appreciate that. And and it may >> if if it can't be changed, it can't be changed. And there's no other It's like putting out a gasoline fire with tennis shoes. >> Absolutely. And this is why when we get to the waiting of these standards, I >> right now the waiting is all the same. One, one, one, one. Right. And that's why we can make this worth less when we evaluate
083Dr. Nichols because I think some of this is a little seven. >> Let's go to seven. Superintendent fosters the success of teachers, staff, and students by demonstrating behavior consistent with legal, ethical, and professional standards, engaging continuous professional development, and contributing to the profession. Three bullets. models integrity and ethical conduct in all interactions while fostering a collaborative environment with stakeholders to advance the mission vision goals of the division. Second bullet maintains confidentiality, takes responsibility for actions and engages in continuous professional development to enhance student learning and contribute to the profession. Third bullet. Actively participates in state and national committees, mentors others, and stays current with new developments, encouraging staff to do the same in order to promote both individual and organizational success. Any comments on those? >> I read just a couple minutes ago. I think
084it's fine. >> Okay. And let's go to standard A and then we can revisit standard two. We can we can rehash that one. standard divisionwide student academic progress superintendent's leadership results in acceptable measurable and appropriate divisionwide student academic progress based on established standards. Noticed uh Mr. that there the word is acceptable right that's pretty broad >> yeah it is >> now we as a division can go and we do we have higher expectations anyway so look at the first bullet le leverages data and research to drive informed decisions that enhance student academic achievement and overall improve student outcomes second bullet engages in a in proactive communication and guides collaborative efforts with staff and stakeholders ers to analyze diverse student learning metrics, identifies and implements effective strategies to boost academic achievement while providing consistent updates to
085the board on students, schools, and division progress. We can decide what that consistent update to the board looks like. That's a decision for the board to make, of course, with the input of Dr. Nichols. delivers and supports impactful professional development opportunities that empower teachers and applicable staff members with skills that foster continuous student achievement improvement within their classrooms. Last one demonstrates responsibility for division academic achievement through proactive education and outreach to parents, staff, and other community stakeholders. give you an opportunity to digest that. >> I don't have any issues. >> Good. >> I don't um what is what exactly does efforts with staff and stakeholders to analyze diverse student learning metrics? Well, if you're just using so scores to determine the achievement or progress of a child, that's very limiting. >> But what choice do
086we have there? According to VDOE, >> that's one of the conversations we can have. There are other um like there's the Vows testing. Uh there are benchmarks. There are a lot of ways to assess progress and achievement in children. >> But what is acceptable by the VDOE? Are all of those methods acceptable? >> Yes, in fact. >> Are we using those? >> Some of them. Yeah. I mean, we're we're we're we're using a lot of them. Uh the VDOE actually provided and I shared a list of categories of different types of uh performance indicators that could be used. That's I think I'm hoping that we can have another uh not not tonight because today we were just focusing on the evaluation form. But related to standard 8, the the school board can decide what metrics
087it wants to see and what metrics should be used to assess student progress and achievement. And there there's a whole category of them. It's not just testing. There are other factors as well. Primarily testing. Absolutely. And in fact the uh the workshop that we went to this weekend they had this chart which was excellent. A lot of it was SOS okay and so scores in various categories etc. But again, the is the issue again is that we have a diverse student population, right? And and notice that's why it says acceptable and measurable and appropriate divisionwide student academic progress based on established standards. The VDOE provides some requirements for those what those standards should be, but we as a board must also decide and establish what those standards will be in our division. Of course, with
088the feedback from Dr. Nichols and uh Mr. Miller, etc., because they're the professionals, they're the educators. Well, let me What is your I invite your take on that. I It seems so wide open and so ambiguous. It doesn't I was looking for something more definitive. Am I wrong? >> Can I not? >> Yeah, I'm sorry. >> Yeah, that's all right. Let's let let's hear I mean, if you guys don't mind, is there any if you don't have any input? That's fine. Chime in. >> I'm just trying to Yeah. like we measure the success of New County Public Schools on a thousand different indicators. Um so I think for me as this is the evaluation of the superintendent, I would like to be very clear on what is important to the board to make sure we're
089hitting those targets. Um because there are a million different targets that we're we're working through. So uh you know graduation and completion is a big target. uh you know we were doing three before anybody else was talking about three. So we are really pushing to make sure every kid has a pathway and a plan. Uh that's something that I'm very passionate about chasing. Uh but if that's not in the academic progress plan, which I would hope it would be, um I don't know, Ross, that's just similar. I definitely I would welcome to special what it is you all value. Um I know this is sort of the state's document but really what what is it that y'all are looking for >> [clears throat] >> um specifically and and again this goes by this measure of
090performance of superintendent. So what what are y'all looking for from us um to show that we're doing what >> and some of what we do is more of a formative nature like we just we're trying to diagnose something >> I would hesitate that to put that in front of you guys as a success measure. Yeah. >> Um, so >> and and that's what I'm trying to clarify because this is not I mean this >> how do you go after I mean it's like chasing your tail if if now and if this is something we can change the performance indicators then I would like to see this more specific as to board expectation through this metric. You're absolutely correct and that's why the next phase of this as a board which we haven't done and you
091know this this is our second year we as a board need to look at all the different types of performance indicators. I shared a document and I indicated in red what is already being done in division. Then Miss Dumbrosky and Mr. Pagano offered their based on the list that I provided. they provided input on what they thought, oh this is, you know, this would be good to to look at and include. >> Okay, >> so that's for another day. So in other words, and by the way, those performance indicators should tie in to the strategic plan, right? Right now we have three goals, right? Number one being student achievement. C >> can I can I pause you just for a second because I'll be honest with you, I'm a little lost. So Ron, let's have
092a conversation. Performance standard 8, bullet point two. Let's break this down because it says three things, right? The first thing it says is that the superintendent engages in proactive communication, which means he initiates the communication. He guides collaborative efforts with staff and stakeholders, community members, teachers, etc. to do what? analyze diverse student learning metrics. I I would question maybe what that means, but analyze diverse student metrics. So, the first thing it's saying is that he he analyzes data with his team and takes feedback from us and community. The second thing it says is because there's a comma there is that he identifies and implements effective strategies to boost academic achievement. >> I don't think anybody has to hang up with that one, right? >> No. All right. The third thing it says is that the
093superintendent does that while providing consistent updates to the board on student, school, and division progress. I feel like we get that at every meeting and as part of the strategic plan update now. So, I'm a little lost as to what the hang up here on the languages. So, help me out. Okay, [clears throat] here's the how how are they going to provide consistent updates to the board on student schools and division progress if we were to decide to change the um learning metrics if if they're using this set of metrics and bringing that information to us and we're expecting something totally different. Okay. or another board to to your point, the next board or board, you know, down the road or for the next superintendent comes in and says, "No, that's not the metrics." >>
094Well, then that he he could in fact or the superintendent at the time could in fact get dinged on this because we're using other metrics and the outcomes don't match. >> I got it. So, that's all I'm saying. Here's in my opinion, here's a simple solution to that. at the end of that first portion say as defined in the current strategic plan because we have data that we built into the strategic plan that we want to see right and what Miss Cooney was talking about a second ago is all right how how are we going to get this rolling now because we just launched it and how often is the school board going to get the data and take a look at it maybe every quarter we're reviewing test scores and graduation rates and so
095and SAT or whatever it is we want to look at right but if we tie it to the strategic plan and the data we've already built into the strategic plan. If us in the future or a future school board wants different metrics, they got to amend the strategic plan and it all has to tie together. >> And that makes sense because that way there's a standard set. It's not just >> it's related that strategic plan goes handinand with this. >> So if I I'd be good if we just added that. >> Yeah. >> So that it becomes a a set standard. So these guys would know what are we chasing? What do what do you what do you what do you want to hear? What do you want to learn? >> And that's why we
096as a board need to have these discussions so that it's not again it's not on them. It's on us. That's part of our responsibility. >> I I I don't know why we're having that conversation because I realize that. I'm just saying >> what you asked. >> No, I'm just saying that the standard needs to be set and we have not. >> So, let's change it. >> Okay. >> Where it says stakeholders to analyze the metrics set forth in the current strategic plan. I'm sorry. Uh Doc, I mean Mr. Pagano on your >> second sentence. Second sentence. Bullet point two. Second sentence. >> Yeah. >> Stakeholders to analyze the current metrics or or the metrics as set forth in the current strategic plan. >> Analyze the current >> metrics set forth in the current strategic plan.
097the metrics set for set forward. >> Yeah. In the current strategic plan. >> In the current [clears throat] strategic plan and leave it there and and not continue or >> no continue. I think the hangup is is the first part >> to analyze. >> Anybody else have an issue? >> Yeah. No, I think that's >> instead of diverse student learning metrics uh instead to analyze the metrics set forward in the current strategic plan instead of the other thing, right? >> Yeah, everything else is good. >> Okay. Yeah, [clears throat] correct. >> Okay, so those are the standards. Should we go back to standard two? Listen, before we get into a weight discussion, I want to clarify two things and then I want to hear from the superintendent about where he thinks this is lacking or
098needs improvement or change of language or whatever the case may be. So, you were saying go back to two uh Helina. >> Yeah, because that second bullet I think uh gathering relevant data and we changed the wording, right? Gathering relevant data and GA gathering relevant data in order to make informed decisions. I think we fixed that. We fixed that. >> I I also think it's backwards. So I I in other words >> by leveraging external resources, you know, gathering relevant data and applying researchbased techniques, the superintendent ensures instructional programs meet federal and state standards. Got it. >> Not the other way around. >> Okay. Yeah. by start here. >> Mhm. >> That makes sense. That I hope my notes make sense later. But she's got her in. >> Yeah, she's she's she can go back
099and watch the YouTube video. Very exciting stuff. Yeah. Yeah. >> All right. Now, I would like to go back to performance standard number one and bullet number two. I think we got problem with bullet number two tonight. >> All right. And I think I understand what Dr. Nichols was saying. And if I got this wrong, Dr. Nichols, jump in here. >> I I think the hangup is in an evaluation and the evidence that Dr. Nichols was suggesting, he has to provide to us to suggest that he's met these things. The language is so broad here in my opinion and and what he said before kind of made the light bulb go off in my head. It says supports and enforces all schoolboard policies. How is he going to do that? >> You know how many
100schoolboard policies there are? >> Yeah. >> Right. And to his point before, most of these are day-to-day operations. How do you prove or or give us evidence of what's going on on a daily basis that Dr. Nichols, the admin and the team and all the teachers are complying with the policies. I mean that that's just a huge request. >> So, do we want to X this one out? >> Well, I [clears throat] mean that's one thing. The other thing and you know, so we all use the cell phone policy as an example. That's easy because it was a big issue and it was in everybody's face. >> So the idea of maybe you know pertinent schoolboard policies, relevant schoolboard policy, any schoolboard policy at issue, right? Maybe we can carve out something like that if
101if we're not all willing to get rid of it. I think all schoolboard policies is is >> the word all is too big. >> Yes. Anytime you use the word all, that's >> Yeah, I I agree. But I think that um it's important to have in here the the latter part of that informs all teachers, staff, and constituents >> of changes to policies that would like we did like you sent out. Yeah. you did a video. You said, I mean, everyone knew those policy changes were coming. >> So, if we just took the word all out and supports and enforces schoolboard policies, which you do every day, and then inform all teachers, staff, and constituents of changes to the policy or to a policy or whatever. >> Okay. But Dr. Nichols is your is so
102my question to you is are you still wondering like how am I going to prove that I've done this? >> Oh, I'm wondering that throughout this document. >> Um >> but I mean for example, if we decide to change the uh purchasing threshold and what requires three bids and what there are maybe a dozen people in the organization that need to have that information because not everybody has that purchasing right >> piece. So we would certainly Haney would communicate that and and those like I can I can some years >> not every year is a cell phone policy year. So some years it's really just going to be code changes and things like that and there's not going to be so far this year there hasn't been a whole lot to communicate specific to policy
103changes. Um but we do update them and we'll talk about that in the next agenda item. Um, so good. Yeah. >> And I I question the word constituent, maybe parents, but do we really have to be notifying those? They're searchable. They're updated. Like, is that doing my is that the extent of my responsibility? >> That's part of it >> for constituents. Yeah, >> constituents I think is a um or community is an important word >> because taxpayers they may not have children but they they're concerned >> right >> about education. They may have grandchildren coming in later or something or somebody's coming here. Um let me ask let me just throw this out here. We we currently have a board that is and excuse the term governing. Is that a fair assessment of what we
104do? Our responsibility? >> It's our job. >> A school system that I believe is um if not the best, one of the best certainly in the Commonwealth, maybe the nation as we go forward. We have a superintendent that is um excellent and does a tremendous job and a support staff that does equally as well. Um, wouldn't it behoove us to um at if if they wanted to to to look over this as well and take this and perhaps write in some suggestions that make sense. Um, >> who who writes in suggestions? >> Dr. Nichols and and the staff, the ones that and then perhaps we could develop a evaluation that not only would make sense to us, but to uh any superintendent that came in and we could take those recommendations and go back through
105this and see how they fit and apply to what we're trying to do because we got a a panel of experts here. We're not that panel of experts in terms of exactly what they do in the day-to-day operations. >> Yeah. Day-to-day and how to be evaluated things that may actually be more applicable to the evaluation than what we have here. >> Well, but what this is the superintendent evaluation specifically. >> I I understand >> he he sets the evaluation process for all the other staff members. And I I I I think your point is >> we're not asking him to write it. We're asking him for input. >> Yeah. He's a source. When I make decisions, I'd rather have and for what I do as a call, I ask my leadership and everyone to bring
106the all the the the best sources of information in so that we can make an informed decision. I I think that maybe we have an opportunity here, I believe anyway, to do that. And perhaps, maybe not, but perhaps that would help us in terms of coming up with a a a not only u an evaluation that conforms to the state standards, but also makes sense and true boots on the ground application, if that makes sense. Maybe not, but I'm just >> So, the previous two years we used this generic form and we got the job done. Um, and so you're saying that that was inadequate, right? >> Not at all. And please don't read into my statements. I'm saying that we have we're changing. >> Yes, >> we're making a change. Let's get all pertinent
107resources involved with all the recommendations, suggestions to make pertinent changes and adequate. We've all agreed we ran on the point and we got on the board because we didn't want adequate. We wanted excellence. >> So, I'm saying as a point of achieving and pursuing excellence, consider all the resources that we could use to put into this. If the board at large thinks that's and it's no reflection, please no >> on what you have done. This is excellent. >> Here's my only concern. It is now November. >> Mhm. >> And if we're going to do all this, it's not going to be fair to Dr. Nichols to then say, "Oh, by the way, we're going to do your evaluation and this is the new metrics we're going to use, you know, the new form." So then
108that would only apply to the following year because that's not fair to him. You know what I'm saying? >> No, I don't understand the urgency for >> we just did the evaluation. >> Yes. Okay, >> that's true. But he's evaluated for the school year. We're now in the second term of the school year that he's going to be next be evaluated. >> You understand? Do you think that that I don't we just did the 2025 evaluation. The next evaluation is 2026 and per the revised contract, we could do that anytime in 2026. >> That's why I'm saying what is the urgency there? I I'm not I'm getting lost in that. >> All right, Dr. Nichols. >> Yeah. >> What is your feeling on that? >> Which piece? He's totally >> No, I'm just talking about
109providing input >> in the evaluation so that when you look at it, >> it's you understand what is being expected rather than our assuming that that you under that that expectation we've covered it properly. And maybe we have >> and and maybe I'm I I go at things very simply and it's just the way we operate or I operate. The board approved a strategic plan less than a year ago. That is what we have. I have charged them and everybody with we need to implement these four goals, these measures and then we have KPIs with all of them. Like to me that's how we've said as a team we're moving this organization forward. Um I'm not sure how much overlap or gaps there are between this evaluation and that strategic plan to make sure um
110well like I know policy implementation is not part of that strategic plan. It's just part of day-to-day work I do. Um so yeah and there are things on that strategic plan that I don't think are reflecting this evaluation just as a glance. That's what I was doing over here was just trying to match up things. So >> my question is it is >> but but I I think that's a great point and I think it ties into what you're saying and and also what you're saying which is I mean we all have our opinions about the evaluations and we're we're supposed to evaluate oursel. Could you imagine that conversation? Um by the way I do a great job. I'm kidding. Um, [clears throat] having that the operational tasks and the the data and the and
111the things that we've tasked the school with in the strategic plan tied into not replacing but tied into or added to this form, right? Because if that's how we're evaluating the school system that he leads, then that makes sense to me. And I think that's what Ron is sort of suggesting in a way, which is let's get a little feedback from the people that run the show dayto day and what they would suggest or see being added to this or replacing, you know, A with B so that it makes more sense for them in their in their day-to-day work that we are not plugged into. >> And whether we do this on the front end or the back end, >> right? One of the first things we're going to do as a team, we're going
112to sit down with these indicators and we're go what's the evidence that we would put together for report. So, I mean, we can do that on the front end, we can do it, but it's it's step number one we're going to do. If you put a target out there, we want to make sure we hit it and we make sure we do it well. So, >> yeah, but my point is I'm not it's like SOS. I'm not interested in throwing a target out there so that you meet the standards of the target. the objective is to fulfill the strategic plan. Yes, sir. >> That's different than throwing out a different target and saying, "Oh, well, we've got to we got to go here. We definitely have to SOS." A good example. How many how many
113times in the past year since SOS did the student instruction boil down to making certain the student could pass the so learn it or not get it com you know it had nothing to do with um ability to to to maintain what you learned so I'm just saying and in the board we may decide that the recommendations and suggestions don't fit with what we believe needs to go forward. So, we we work through that. But I'm saying let's at least see if we can match them up >> that we get recommendations from the staff on what performance indicators for each of the eight standards should be included along with these bullets or replace the bullets. >> No, I'm saying that they uh Dr. Nichols and superintendent with whoever he'd like to to call into this.
114>> Mhm. >> Looks at this and makes comments, notes, maybe recommendations, and then we we bring it back and we look at those and how they line up. I would assume that you're going to just like you just said and did, you're looking at the strategic plan and saying, "How does this line up with what we're asking there?" and that we may find that it simplifies or adds additional bullets or maybe we change a bullet or maybe everything's just fine like it is. >> But I I think that it's worth at least considering an additional resource of the boots on the ground. >> I'm up for whatever the board decides to do. I'm just trying to be a facilitator. Um, I think I think more information can be a good thing. I just want to
115make sure that whoever is truly interested in providing the feedback. You know, again, if we have too many too many people on the pot, then it's just I would want that to be relevant people, relevant information as it pertains to the superintendent's evaluation. That's my only thing. I'm I'm all for exploring this more. I >> Well, and I hope that those comments I hope that we remember that when we decide to in the future form committees and going forward >> that. So, um I would be very comfortable with Dr. Nichols choosing whoever he believes he would like to come alongside him and and just look at this. But primarily it's his input. >> Yes, absolutely. I think primarily it has to be his input because it's his evaluation. Absolutely. And I concur. >> And I
116love I think this is amazing what you've been what you've done just to from the boilerplate to here. This is amazing. >> It's a work in progress and that's why it's a draft. Um and again I I didn't get input feedback. I got feedback from Mr. Pagano. I understand back from East Broski and so I that's why we're here and we're having opportunity >> I can say this at least for me th this >> maybe all the form and function is not perfected yet but as a tool as it as it's presented here this makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than the thing we did the other day >> oh it's beautiful >> so it is definitely a step forward so so might I suggest this >> we finish with our
117revisions let's get to the point system now we finish with our edits >> and then we forward it to Dr. Nichols. He can bring in, like you're saying, bring in whatever experts he wants to bring in. Let him redline it and send it back to us >> and we can either accept or reject the red line changes. >> That's that's all right. That's all I'm saying. >> That's perfectly reasonable. Thank you for for summing that. All right, let's let's get let's get to the waiting part. Um so the standard the default has been um that we fill in you know whatever highly effective or effective whatever we did and then everything was weighted the same. Uh however, we do have discretion as a board on a local level to decide if we looking at the
118eight standards if we want certain standards to weigh more than others. Now, as an example, and I will say this comes from the code of Virginia, the code of Virginia requires that standard 8, which is the student academic progress be a significant component of the evaluation. And furthermore, how student academic progress is met is the responsibility of the local school board provided provided that standard 8 is not the least weighted or less than one which is 10% of the total score. So with that equal 10, right? >> Yes. >> So when I shared um a chart um this past summer, I got feedback from Mr. Pagano and Mr. Brodsky and based on the feedback sometimes I had to somehow compromise somewhere in the middle but actually their feedback was almost spoton which was really interesting.
119I'd say scary >> but interesting is a better word. But if you notice standard 8 uh they both agreed and I agreed as well that that should be the highest weight >> because we are in the this is the profession right this is why we're here student outcomes student progress student achievement and certainly academic progress has to weigh the most u now remember standard six it's that whole weird right wording and so uh I would even if it were me I would I would take a little bit maybe off of that and do 0.75 and we don't have to do like quarters but to make it the numbers easy and possibly add more to like standard 3 instructional leadership even cuz that to me is more relevant than standard 8. Um, so again, this is
120this is for you to review because you didn't have an opportunity to do so and let's talk about it certainly also with the input of Dr. Nichols. This is just where we are now. It's not set in stone. I I like your suggestion to move uh to move to 0.75 >> uh on number six and then pull that up to um instructional leadership. I mean that's I think that that makes sense to me and the rest of it I mean it certainly makes sense and I think that I agree completely with the academic progress being two the highest weighted of the standards. Okay, Mr. Pay and Mr. Rosski, >> I that's a great idea and I'm happy with everything else the way it is. >> And then of course, Dr. Nichols, what do you think?
121>> And this could Oh, I have it right here. >> Okay. >> Oh, thank you. And this may go back to high school math class. I think my only aversion is you now need a calculator to determine if I'm effective or not. >> And I don't think it should be that hard. >> Okay. Um, but I mean I do understand it has to be weighted and but literally you can put your numbers in and you actually have to go through the calculations to figure out. Um, so yeah, hopefully I come out on the right side of the calculations. So we'll we'll see. But I do like that the academic progress is the heaviest weight. So we can have all the great intentions and strategies, but we don't yield results. >> That's right. That's right. So
122we don't shy away from that. And the math isn't hard. It's the weight times the points, right? If you see the bottom, if it's highly effective in that category, it's a four times, let's say for the first one, standard one, it would be four * 4 * 1.25. It's all added up. And then that's how you get the rating at the end. It's not very hard. It's not it's not as hard as that accreditation system they came up with. It's it's pretty simple. It is an extra step uh because if it were all the same, right, it's much easier to come up with the final score. This has to this involves more math because you got to multiply the basic math Google doc or an Excel doc. >> Exactly. You set it up and it
123does it for you. >> This we move the 0.25 to standard >> uh standard six. Yes. Make that 0.75 culturally responsible on the three. >> Okay, that's Thank you. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So you're 1.25 for the first four one 75 1.25 two. Right. Got it. >> And then of course there's also standard five communication and community relations. But I you know again just you don't have a lot of strength. >> All right. Behind the phone. Can you explain a little bit more about the range of scores? Like if we judge him highly effective, but then there's a score range of 35 40. >> Oh, I see what it's saying. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Can you give me a highly effective minus or plus too? So that's >> okay. >> Highly effective
124plus. [laughter] >> Thank you. you know. >> Well, I commend you on what you've done and making this simplified >> certainly over what we were working with. >> And um I man this is to this is more than a good start. This is a I believe an opportunity to move it forward quickly and have it in place. >> It's a lot of work for me. I think >> Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, >> Mr. B. I appreciate >> well it's >> um yeah and I think that as as part of the discussion right um to to wrap it up I would ask the opportunity for the board to discuss what performance indicators should be applied to student achievement that's standard 8 and certainly it's very important to get the feedback that's where I feel
125like we need to get that feedback like what's feasible what's not and we we are in our own lane I mean thank god that we are in a division and and Dr. Nichols, you've pointed this out before. We are at a level now where we can, right? The sky's is the limit, but we also have to be weary that, you know, we don't want to put on too many demands all at once for the staff, the teachers, etc. But we are in our own lane and we can of course we can decide what what what that looks like, but certainly it has to be with the input of um Mr. Miller, the teachers, Dr. Nicholls um cuz they're the professions. >> All right. Anybody else have any input on this matter? Going to move on
126the agenda. >> All right. Final item is proposed policy change for a policy review committee. Mr. Broski, floor is yours. >> I wonder if we could take a five minute recess. So, >> how about a two minute? >> Two minutes. Fine. Sh. That's about all I need. Stretch. >> I appreciate that. I know that's a little long. >> Well, it's it's good. It's important. >> Yeah, it's important it out >> and I commend you. I know that that was a that was a laborious mess and everything and >> Yeah. And if we could just find out if that language is set in stone by VOE, >> right? >> Yeah. Well, you're not supposed to >> you can't figure out how to pause the machine. So, it's combo. Yep. All right. Thank you. Okay. Thanks. Happy
127to be here. >> Can I tell you how much I appreciate you sitting all of you just sitting here? >> Yeah. >> Oh my goodness. It's the best. Yeah, but it's also the camera, >> right? We're on camera over there. >> It's working. >> Oh, no. It's sticking. Oh, I can't have it. I don't I don't know that >> speaker. Hi, Joe. >> You must have been a troublemaker in your family. >> I was considered a black sheep. Yes. >> Where were you? Were you the middle child, the youngest? >> You definitely weren't the oldest. >> All right, recess is over. Mr. Broski again, you're up. Thank you. >> Policy review committee. >> I'm going to say the word committee, but it's not as complicated as I think maybe the word committee entails. It doesn't
128have to be anyway. Um the main points is that policy is one of our main responsibilities as a school board. It's basically our chief. This is how we supposed to govern. We govern by policy. Um, so before I go any further, Dr. Nichols mentioned to me that he does have some information on what they've been doing based on the initial proposal made back in September. >> Yeah, absolutely. I'll give you a quick update. >> Thank you. >> U, so policies are live in four docks off of draft and and live. >> Thank you. >> Absolutely. Um, so want to thank uh Miss Davis, uh, Mr. Cherry, and even Mr. department uh for working through the policy piece. So, they've been working on a process to review policies and make sure that they're updated. So, um
129tonight, A, B, and C have all been reviewed and are up to date with what um any version of this school board over the past decade has approved. Um so, we are working through those and I'm happy to bring those updates. There's a quick policy section in the board meeting. I'm happy to bring you an update monthly on where we are with that. It is our intent, although some of these policy sections bog down um to go through A through L and provide you with the comprehensive review that we're required every 3 to 5 years and make sure we're up to date. Uh furthermore, as new policies are put forward, I believe in December, we're coming with a first read of the policy series set. uh we have a specific timeline for them to be
130loaded into board docs now they're up and running it should be a lot easier and then upon board action to be moved from draft into policy. So we feel like we have a really good system now um one to make sure everything is updated and reviewed and then to moving forward make sure they continue to stay updated with each adoption from the uh school board. So, uh, we've worked through a kind of a policy flowchart protocol. Uh, Mr. Romero would be very excited, uh, because we do have that flowchart and who's responsible for each section of it, uh, to make sure that, um, everything is up to date. So, as I, as I stated, be happy to provide that update um, as part of a regular series that we do, but A through C was
131the goal by tonight and we cleared that uh, late last week. So, we're in D right now, but we are not finished with D to tell you that everything has been reviewed. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> And the flowchart you said Mr. Limer has that. >> No, Mr. Rammer always talks about is there a workflow? >> Um, so we do have a workflow and who's responsible for each one. So, that was his shout out tonight because that's typically a question he asked. >> So, some of my questions and concerns have arisen from the fact that per the standard quality. Number seven, all schoolboard policies shall be reviewed at least every five years and revised as needed. And then there are a subset of policies that require either um an annual review every
132two years or once every three years. And that is included on the handout I provided. Um, and then in looking at them, they have dates on them, >> but many of them, the last date that it was revised is several years ago, but we don't know when it was last reviewed. >> Yeah. So, one of the things that we're going to do is add the review date to it. >> Perfect. um not technically required, but it does give greater clarification to when it was reviewed and let you know when the the >> the next time it's due for review. So, right, >> how could a policy be revised if it wasn't reviewed? >> If it was reviewed, they're like, "Everything looks good. We don't have to change anything." Revised is >> it was revised in
133some way, and that was the last time it was actually changed. >> But they got that. What I'm saying is you can't change the policy and revise it if you haven't reviewed it. They go hand in hand, >> right? So I would say if it was revised as of a certain date and that date was within the required timeline, great. It's >> Yeah. >> So if it's >> you're just saying for those that aren't changed >> for those who haven't changed, but it's still showing a last revision date. >> Correct. >> So I give you I'll give you a specific example. So uh board member oath of office, last time that was revised was 2015. So, not a lot has changed as far as your oath of office, but we've just reviewed it. So, we
134need to tag that and reviewed say right >> December 2020 or no, it's actually not December, November 2025. >> Um, so that all of those have >> that makes sense. Just so it shows that it's in compliance. >> I got >> um >> more clerical on our >> right. Um, and then I included some sample policy matters that I felt needed to be addressed. Um, so the first one, BDD, electronic participation schoolboard meetings. This is supposed to review be reviewed annually, which I believe the VSBA provides us with an updated policy, which they did in May 2024, but the update to that policy, which actually includes additional information, isn't reflected >> on the on board docs. >> Yeah. And that's that's really the process that we're going through is to make sure that what you've
135approved is the updated version on there. So >> So when you say that they've gone through ABC, have have they addressed those matters or is it just something that will be all uploaded? >> They're they're addressing them as they go. As long as it is a policy the board has approved, we're not going to change anything that you guys or any that the school board has not approved, right? >> Um that we feel comfortable uploading that policy because it was approved. So through the process of of the review those will also be updated. >> So right now I look today and BDD >> is still the same one. It's not the one that we were that we approved in May. >> Right. >> Also B DDG the minutes it still shows it's not updated with
136the policy that we >> approved. and BDF, the one that says all division policies will be reviewed at least every five years and revised as needed. There's no indication when it was last reviewed and it was last revised in 2013. >> Um that's just different things. [clears throat] Um BHB schoolboard member inservice activities. It references participation in schoolboard conferences, workshops, and conventions conducted by the Virginia, and that's misspelled, sorry, National School Board Association as an appropriate kind of activity and service that was last reviewed um November 19th, 2012. >> And actually in 2021, the VSBA voted to end its membership with the National School Boards Association. So, I'm assuming that somewhere out there there's a policy that >> that removes those >> that has removed that and is maybe now I don't know much about
137COSBA, but they're fairly new. I think about two years old. They're now associated with them. So, it's just another policy update that needs to reflect that information. >> Um, moving past Go ahead. >> I'm sorry. I'm not trying to I'm just trying to keep us on track here, guys. So you guys are now talking about policies, but what's before the board tonight is whether we're establishing a review committee. >> You're so right. Sorry. Let's get back to that. So it sounds like essentially a committee has been created and I just want to leave you some notes. >> Multiples. Are you doing it by department? >> Uh so there's the standing committee which is the folks that I mentioned plus myself. But then like we're getting ready to go into D that is completely Miss Morham's
138wheelhouse. So she will be providing that spec that when we're talking about committee like >> bringing in the requisite expert so to speak. Got it. >> Yes sir. Because without that we we don't lost you know you need that subject matter expert in there. Yeah. So, >> so I guess my main one of my main questions is once it goes through the process of being updated and approved and everything, when does it go into the policy manual online? >> Miss Davis, >> as soon as I receive them, I'm going through them. So, I did a chart with things and I'm going to go back and because some things that were just changed like recently within the last year because we were doing the conversion. >> Um, I'm behind schedule. >> Yeah, I'm going to go
139back and double check those because those >> weren't we have them on paper but not updated into the We're still in the process of updating some of those. because that's that's just a concern is that we passed these things a while ago >> and it should be reflected in policy >> and it's not reflected policy. So it's hard to govern >> by policies that haven't been published and that's just been my concern is that >> so we should we should we create an action item for a future meeting with a timeline? Well, be specific now in terms of saying like when we vote on a change or a new policy as to how long we expect that to be uploaded into the now digitized. >> Well, two two parts. One, what's being done now? What's
140the expectation of um once it has been reviewed like A B and C has been reviewed the timeline in which we'll see that effectively all the changes everything changed new policy revisions everything for section ABC a number of weeks or months or whatever it is but to put that in place so that we have some timelines so that we're not asking the same question seven months from Right. >> Now that you've made the conversion to the policies on board docs, >> the day after you vote on them, >> they will go they will put I will push them through. >> But what I'm saying >> talk about the update. >> Update. >> Yeah, I appreciate that. But we're looking at one, two, three, four B um policies that today, if I understand you right, have
141not been changed. >> I would say about two weeks. which some people feel faster if there's no changes, but to if you want a review date on every single policy. >> No. Well, yeah, it has to have a it has to have a review date, >> but I and that's a separate issue. I'm saying what is the timeline and expectation that we the board have once you've gone through ABC that we should see the outcome of that on board docks. That's what I'm asking. >> And my other question is I'm a little confused. We don't have to approve. So we just >> These have all been approved, Miss They're just updated that we looked at. Well, that and then also like >> Mr. Vot's um >> what was it called? Teaching about controversial issues. Yes.
142>> We changed that in July. >> That's true. >> And it's still the old >> policy. >> Yeah. So, I'm just trying to see if we shouldn't. >> And that's an eye, right? >> Yeah. That's down the road. But >> but again, these things happened a while ago. So, it's just I want to make sure that we're this doesn't happen again. I understand that we had to go through the process of changing it, but it is concerning that it's been all this time and it's almost like we're governing on things that haven't actually been published. >> Yeah. So, it back to my point, >> you're right, but it doesn't change the fact that those are the rules we established and we got to govern by those rules. >> Right. And I understand that. It's just
143like we're it's like trying to evaluate Dr. Nichols on something that he hasn't been fully informed of just a little bit >> or the community goes on board docs and looks at the polic and they're saying what the heck. >> So we I and we can talk about this in the next um but I I I think it's worth at least putting on as an agenda item or something down the road uh very soon to establish some sort of expectation. Yes, sir. Right. So, back to the matter at hand. establish of a school board policy review committee. >> If they want additional assistance with this and they are interested in us putting out feelers for somebody who might be interested in willing to volunteer their time and help, then I think at that point we
144can do that and it would be up to them and then go from there. I don't know that we have I mean I don't think we have at this point. My purpose in creating and advising for a committee was to help them because it's such a massive project. >> Yeah. >> And my understanding was Dr. Nichols was try going to try and get to it during the summer and then it gets busy and so >> yeah didn't hold up their end of the deal on that one but now that we're up it it is completely on us. So I just wanted to offer a way of helping >> especially because it's one of our primary responsibilities and I don't feel like I should abdicate that responsibility necessarily to them. They have got a lot on
145their plates. Uh so >> but they have to be involved. >> I know. Yeah. So if there was a an easy way for us to be obviously we can't all do it because at the same time because that's considered a meetings but there might be a way that we can take turns perhaps or I don't know but it's primarily >> I think they incorporated in some of the um teaching interns and others um isn't that what has happened >> that was not formatted >> yeah that was the the format formatting. Yes, sir. >> Could we do the same? Are there any is there anyone available in that range or category that could come in? If you need it, you may I mean if you if if it's not needed, it's not needed. But if it
146is, um what can we do? How can we help? >> Well, he and I were just talking, you know, maybe we need a retrieve or something where we just up and get that done. And and I'm just love policies now. I'm talking to some of them help where I can. But uh because there's some of them are very simple, but some of them have detailed information that >> are we implementing these. I think that's I think it you're pulling the top off of the can that I don't care to go down and and address right now until we have them established and revised and and then at some point Yes. Let's go back and >> you're right. >> I think that's a whole >> Sure. I guess my point was like in the foyer request
147it still was Mila Hall as the contact. So >> this is that it's I looked on it today unless my computer's not right. It has inaccurate outdated information. >> Yeah. So that's why I'm saying when we discuss this to determine and establish timelines. All of those things need to be included. >> You should have accurate policies that you have approved and that needs to happen and it needs to happen quickly. >> Yeah. So >> I agree. Thank you. So would uh Miss Dumbroski would would it be satisfactory to uh leave it as if Dr. Nichols and anyone involved needs additional help, they'll contact us. And at that point, if we have those of us who would be available to help, then we and then if you could provide us at the next meeting or the
148second next meeting an update as to where you're at on that. And actually, can that be added as an agenda item? because it's going to take a little time and at least we could feel like we can check off. Okay, we've done this part. We provide an update. So, we make sure we're all on the same page here. We don't want to discover things down the line. Another set of eyes is good to have, but >> well, to your point, I I think that's a way that we accomplish our duty under SQ7. It says all schoolboard policies shall be reviewed at least every 5 years and revised as needed. It doesn't necessarily say by who and it doesn't necessarily say it has to be us, right? We're able to delegate some of our responsibilities with
149retaining that oversight function that we have as schoolboard members and as a body, right? Um, I think in reviewing the policies and largely their day-to-day operations that affect the people that live and breathe and work these things every single day, they are the best people to review them on our behalf. And then if they come to us with updates that we can, I'm not going to say rubber stamp, but review and approve andor make changes if we need to or, you know, we see a policy we don't like, then it's on us to bring it before ourselves as an item of consideration. So, we have the ability, you know, to make the changes we want. You know, if they're doing it and AB and C are done, Dr. Nichols, then maybe it does become a
150regular thing on the agenda and now all of us as a group are reviewing the policies, public facing, >> meeting our requirement under SQ7. We don't need a formal community. We don't need to get in their way. >> Um, and slow the process down. There's a ton of policies, >> but the timing of it, I think, is what I'm hearing from everybody. So, establishing uh, hey, we just made a change. It needs to be up, you know, madame clerk, within seven days. I mean, I think that's very reasonable and she says she can get it done in one. So, giving her seven, I think, you know, works, right? Um, all the other stuff, albeit the techn the technology issues with getting board docks up and running seem to be resolved now. So, this shouldn't be
151an issue going forward. Let's just clean up what's behind us. And then the fact that you identified these is is awesome and we need to get these fixed. And as soon as we do that, I feel like we're in a good position and then the team can finish their review, keep updating us, and we rock and roll. Unless anyone else has anything else to say, I'm good. >> Thank you. Just for clarification on our part. So section C, um I apologize. [clears throat] So under schoolboard goal reviews and updates, C is always policy review and revision. I can just provide you I'm already rolling at that point anyway. I provide you a quick update on where we are. So that could be standard so I can go okay AB and C have been reviewed and
152they're all in there. So I can >> thank you. I think that would be very helpful. >> That keeps us on a schedule. When I'm on a schedule everybody else stays on the schedule >> and then maybe fulfills our responsibilities how things are going and >> Yep. >> and what to expect by the next time. That way you can hold us accountable for the January meeting. By that token, I mean, because of our duty, it would help if there's a policy that you think needs attention or that's outdated or we need to change and vote on bringing that to us at that same time. >> Yeah. >> You know, if it falls in A, B, and C, then maybe that's perfect time to bring it. This way, we're doing bite-sized chunks. >> Okay. >> Right.
153>> Yeah. >> And then when we're done with that, right, if it's reviewed and then approved by the school board and we're putting that date on there at that meeting. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I think it's worth mentioning there's an unstated serious concern that we are where we are with this what has been accomplished and what hasn't been accomplished and with what we're seeing. >> Yeah. >> So, I think we're all on the same page. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Sounds good. >> Thank you, Mr. Ambos. >> Yep. >> Anybody else have anything comments, questions, concerns? All right. No action items. Next school next meeting of the school board will be Tuesday, December 2nd in two weeks. This will be our regular monthly meeting. Can't get enough of you guys. The meeting will be held
154at the historic courthouse in this boardroom and will begin with the close session at 5:30 followed by the ocean open session at 6. The meeting is adjourned at 7:46 p.m. >> Okay, >> Miss Davis, let us know. Thank you guys. >> Davis, let us know when turned off. Please >> get a little bit more of a break from