Board of Education Meeting 05/29/26

001Good evening and welcome to our special Board of Education meeting for Friday, May 29th. At this time, I would ask you to please rise as Dr. Cannon leads us in the Pledge of Allegiance. Thank you, Mr. Ryan. Any changes to our meeting agenda? >> No changes. >> Okay, thank you so much. In which case, we will will right into the revised budget. Mr. Carlson, we'll turn it over to you. >> Okay, thank you. So, uh to start with, just a reminder of where we uh where the original budget vote was. This is the budget that failed, had a budget to budget increase of 2.87% and a tax levy increase of 4.54%. So, what's happened since uh since the budget vote? Well, the state aid uh state uh state New York state budget has been completed.

002So, uh the good news on that is in the final state budget, our uh aid has increased a little bit from the governor's original budget proposal. Uh if you recall, um the uh Senate and the Assembly um had wanted a 2% minimum of 2% increase in foundation aid. The governor's budget proposal had a 1% increase. So, uh the final state budget has minimum every district getting a minimum of 2% increase in foundation aid. So, for us, that means an additional approximately $290,000 above what was included in the governor's budget proposal. So, that number is now incorporated into this revised budget. So, now, what are the things to consider uh for reduction? Uh well, um you know, this is a not a necessarily a uh an all-inclusive list, but the the main some of the major

003things uh further cuts to administration, adult education, uh capital projects that are in the budget, uh clubs at all of our schools, uh community swim program, cultural arts, equipment [clears throat] purchases throughout the district, uh field trips, music in the parks, uh nine-period day, uh that's um you know, to go instead of a nine period uh, schedule uh, at the secondary schools, either all secondary schools or or uh, at either the high school or the middle schools, whichever. Uh, to go to an eight period day. Uh, the pre-kindergarten program, uh, if you're now also in the state budget um, is now a requirement starting two years from now, 2028-2029 for full day uh, pre-K for all students who want uh, we we need to provide a spot for uh, every student who wants one. There's

004no more lottery. Uh, so that'll begin in two years. Uh, athletics um, again, whether it be just uh, just middle schools or or all secondary schools, uh, the sports shuttles, we have a number of um, uh, uh, Jelanius and Murphy kids who take a shuttle over to the high school still to play on the high school sports teams. Uh, and then staffing in general. Those are all things um, that could be considered um, to reduce in order to uh, bring the budget down for the Revo. So now, uh, would you like to take this uh, next couple of slides, Dr. Scanlon? >> Sure. So, uh, we've heard [clears throat] uh, from a lot of folks about declining enrollment. Um, so in the past uh, five years what our enrollment has looked like, uh, four years

005I should say. This is where we're going uh, with our enrollments. It went from 58, 14, 54, 92. Um, so it's it's been a slower decline than in previous years where people said, "Oh, since 2012, that's 13 years ago, 14 years ago now for us." Um, that that there was a significant drop there. Um, remember we went up a lot in COVID and then a lot of that stuff was cut. So this is the enrollment slide that we have right now. Next slide there, Chuck. So as we've said, uh, well we I had uh, several folks say well the enrollment's gone down, you've increased the teaching staff. Well, the this is the the teachers the classroom teachers. This is not inclusive of psychologists or social workers or guidance counselors or any other positions that we

006have. This is the classroom teaching population has also gone down in the same period of time. We've made every year for the past 4 years of my administration as being superintendent, we have had cuts to the teaching staff. Most of which like this year has been through attrition. Um we've had to do that just because we didn't need necessarily all the bodies in the classrooms. And this has tended to let us keep class sizes within the contractual limitations. So when we talk about you know, what why is it set at a certain number? That's a contractual piece. So it's 23 in kindergarten, 25 in primary, and 26 in intermediate. Uh and we're even with the numbers next year with those classes going up which you're going to see in a moment, um that's still within

007compliance with that that trend in the contract. Next slide, please. The same with the administrators. Um we've been heard repeatedly, you know, cut administration. We need to There's too many administrators in the district. So from 2023 2022-23 we had 54 administrators. Next year with the cuts that are in the budget now we'll have 41. So we've had significant cut here. Overall the administration um has been cut by 21%. That's a large number for for us. We can go on with the next slide. >> [clears throat] >> You want me to take [clears throat] it? Okay. So our initial proposal to the board, this is you know, of course open for for discussion, is to reduce capital projects instead of uh, $3 million, lower that down to uh, 1.75 million. So, that's a $1.25 million uh,

008reduction. Uh, and then I'll talk about which projects in in just a minute. Uh, five additional uh, staff reductions uh, for a total of $500,000. We just last week or two weeks ago, uh, we had a um, a senior uh, staff member resigned. Uh, so, even replacing that person as a significant saving. So, that was not something that we even know about uh, before the uh, first budget vote. Um, our co-curricular and field trips are um, proposed uh, recommendation is to reduce those further. Um, so, just to put it in perspective, uh, that there is a a minimum amount for extracurricular activities in the TVTA contract and that number is uh, for 26-27, it's $166,000 and change. I think it's 166,538, something like that. It's $166,000 and change. So, this would uh, this reduction of

009365,000 would still leave about $366,000 in the budget. So, we'd still be significantly above where the uh, minimum is. And the and the reason that there's even such a clause in the TVTA contract goes goes back many years uh, where there there there wasn't there was not support by the board way back uh, for those those activities. So, that's that's why it got into the con- TVTA contract in the first place. But, um, our board has been very supportive of all of those kind of programs, which is why it's so much higher than what the minimum as required by the TVTA contract is. So, anyway, so, with this reduction of 365,000, which is about half of what was in the uh, first budget, uh, it still leaves uh, significantly more than what the TVTA contract

010calls for as a minimum. Uh, this uh, our proposal is also uh, would uh, reduce district funding for arts and education. That would fall back on onto the the the um, typically it's PTAs that fund those kind of programs. Uh, the community swim program and the adult ed program. Um, so the total reductions there is 2,340,000. Uh, there was discussion at the last board meeting or meeting before to add some security back to elementary schools. Uh, that was after the budget was completed, so now that we're redoing the budget, we'll add that $200,000 into the budget. So that makes a net reduction from the original budget of 2,140,000. So the uh, revised capital projects would include the cupolas at Sitote, Murphy, and Minisink. Uh, and the Nastic uh, mini gym floor. What's taken out is

011the work on the pool at the high school, which is also kind of contributes to why we would propose taking out the community swim program because that would cut down on wear and tear on the pool. Uh, and also there would not be money left over for district wide bathrooms. So uh, that brings the new total to 1,750,000. Um, we're pretty confident that we'll be able to do all this work for with that amount. Of course, there's no guarantee because it would have to wait until we go out to bid. Uh, but we're we're fairly confident we can do this work with that amount. And these projects would also uh, be eligible for the 66% building aid reimbursement from New York State. So >> [clears throat] >> with those changes uh, incorporated in, brings the

012budget to budget increase down to 1.97% and the tax levy increase down to 3.18%. So just uh, do a comparison from uh, the original vote, so the budget to budget increase again was 2.87%. This proposal recommendation is 1.97% and the tax levy increase of was 4.54% now 3.18% in this recommendation. And then if the budget if this budget doesn't pass, there's no more options. We go to contingency and that means no increase to the tax levy at all. And we would have to cut another 5.47 million dollars. And again, remember capital projects is not allowed in a contingency budget. So the first million 750 from this recommendation that comes out would be capital, but it would still require almost 4 million dollars in further reductions. And again, there would be no no options at that

013point. And that would mean there would be extensive cuts to programs and services if we get to that. So the budget vote date now is Tuesday, June 16th. That's the third Tuesday of June. That's the required date. Same time, 6:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. at the in the gym at Ward Melville High School and there is early voting still available for this. Correct? Correct. So um So just go back to um well, I can leave it at this slide and then there you know, I'll sit down and we'll be happy to take any questions and of course, I'm sure there'll be a lot of discussion. >> So just a general comments towards the community and those of us here as well. There is a realization by the Board of Education and the administration that we

014are all facing very tough times. Taxes are high. Taxes in New York State aren't generally high. The the system in New York for the way schools are funded through property taxes is is an archaic system. Many other states have not done are moving away from this model and it's creating an undue burden for everyone. Even with the tax capping in place, the tax is still keep increasing. And yes, school districts make up anywhere from 65, 60 to 70% of your tax bill. In 2021 when the budget failed um twice uh the the district worked hard to make sure that the impact on students was minimal. That and that's just the credit of the teachers, administrators, and all the staff in the district and the Board of Education to not have the students feel that impact.

015Both of those times the the budget that was proposed was above the tax cap. Um so the the staff did their jobs and exceeded the expectations at the time. Um if this budget fails, there will be an impact. There's already with this proposal a major impact from what we have done what we originally proposed. A failure of a budget is the message is clear to the district administration and the board that we need to make further cuts. And a lot of people can attribute different things about the last budget vote whether it was the proposition from the museum or other rate of being 4.54% that we were tone deaf to what the plight of the community might be um and you know we should be coming in under the cap. That was a lot of

016the sentiments we've we heard um we had board had a wonderful listening session last evening here where we had uh total of without the administration that arrived and people that worked here and the board that was here, we had 28 residents show up. So, out of 37,000 registered voters. Um the bond failure in January uh we heard that that amount was also too high and that we we shouldn't be putting that out as well. And you know we're not going to be talking anything about a bond for foreseeable future right now until we we get some of these things taken care of um perhaps in the budget. Um, but we also heard to put that amount those amounts into the budget, which we did with the $3 million. Now, we're reducing that back down. And,

017you know, we are still prioritizing where where we need to go with some of these things. Uh, you know, when people say that the cupolas aren't, you know, necessarily, we need to to take them down would actually cost more money than even repair them in in many regards. So, uh, we heard that loud and clear. So, the the message was sent in 2021 when the budget was voted down twice that this community is not going to tolerate the same budget being put up again. So, with a decline with the declination of this budget, we made cuts and and here is the proposals. Um, just to be clear about the budget that did fail just recently, our yes votes up went up by 27 and people there 27 more people that voted yes, but there were

018over 1,000 people that voted no. And that there's there's seemingly, you know, we we we're right in the same ballpark of where we've always been with yes votes, but the no votes came out in that particular budget. And again, whether that was because of the rate being too high or many other factors that we heard about or, you know, the the museum proposition being there as well, which again was not something this board agreed to voted on to have. There is a state regulation that if they if they you get the requisite number of signatures, you can put the proposition on the the budget. And that's what the museum did. So, we can have a lot of debate about that whether that was right, wrong, or different, um, but it it did have a major

019impact on us. So, um, this is the proposal from the administration. Uh, Board of Education this evening must decide the rate uh, at which we can go out. The only area of this budget that they cannot touch is the after tonight it once it's decided is the capital budget. If that's locked in because that does have an impact on what the tax cap would be since it's outside the cap. So we we need to be very clear about that. The board in its discussions and deliberations here can change other items so that say take this out, put this in instead. You have that luxury to do that with the this these proposals. This is not locked in stone. But by the end of this evening when you vote, you're voting on what that rate is

020going to be. But the the cuts we're making still so people don't think, oh this is not going to have an impact. This is going to have an impact on the district in many ways. And it's going to be felt by different groups, not just one particular group within the district. So that's the only statement we're making. I'll be happy to answer any questions. I know the board would like to discuss many of these items. >> Indeed, thank you. Thank you very much for that. Um And as you touched on, thank you to everybody who took advantage of the Three Village listening by either sending us emails with comments or questions or coming to the session last night. I think it was instructive for all of us to to hear and experience. And as we

021go through the deliberations and conversation tonight, we're going to interject some of the things that that were asked and that we learned from those conversations as well as our own questions. But I guess for a logical start, since it's on the top line, let's talk about capital. Um Anybody want to start first? Do you want me to start first? >> Sure. >> I'll start. >> I believe the capital project should be back to what it was originally because the capital projects are about the safety of the schools for our students. And if we don't do the capital projects now, eventually we may have a problem like when we had the Sitalkat ceiling fall into the school. And I don't believe that's possible. I don't believe that's safe. I believe that we should have the capital

022projects exactly the way they were proposed in the original budget. We have other cuts that I have been mentioned, but I do not think that's that's is a good cut at all. >> Thank you. Um I actually agree with Dr. Carman. Um when the bond went down, we heard from all a lot of community members that they did not want to pay for a bond. They wanted us to include it in the budget. Um they did not want to pay for the um interest rates. They wanted us to break down the items that needed to be paid and put it inside the budget. For us to reducing that, it's just going to take us longer. Right now, it's going to take us 10 to 15 years to do all the projects we had originally. Um

023and I don't know if we're going to have any bond resolution coming up anytime soon. So, I think taking out the most um things that are necessary right now is not good for our budget or our district. And that is listening to the community. That was one of the main things they said they wanted inside the budget. Um but can we just talk 1 second because I also hear a lot um of people saying that our bond and our capital lines are so high is because we don't maintain our structures, which is absolutely false. So, can we talk a little bit about how much money is inside our maintenance lines and what goes into that? >> [clears throat] >> Uh sure. I mean, we're we're uh very proud of the way we take care of

024our facilities. >> I 100% agree. >> Um so, it's not a matter of well, we need to add capital because we're not taking care of it. Um it's just like uh you know, in your home, at some point you need to replace your roof. You'll need to replace windows. You might need to replace an oil burner. It's not through not taking care of it. Things get old, they get worn out, and they need replacing. Uh so, right now in the in the current year's budget, um we have in in buildings and grounds total, we have approximately $15 million. That does not count debt service or capital projects in the current year's budget. That's our custodians, our maintenance mechanics, and our grounds crew as long as including that includes utilities, but that that's how much we

025spend we're spending this year on maintaining our facilities. Again, that's not debt service on old bonds, that's not capital projects that that we're doing. So, we have a we have an excellent maintenance and operations staff. We've we've um In fact, in recent years, we started doing a lot more projects in-house instead of hiring outside contractors to do by using our own own staff to do. They love doing that kind of work. They want to do it. They they actually came to us and said, "We would rather do the work than you you hire these outside contractors. We could do it for a lot cheaper than than you're paying them to do, and we want to do the work." And and we've done that with I mean Dr. Scanlon has led the led the charge on

026that, and that's that's working really well. But some projects they can't do. They just can't do. We don't either we don't have the equipment to do it, they don't have the expertise to do. Uh we're uh refurbishing the the cupola at at any of our schools is we don't have the equipment to do that. We we just don't. Um so that's those are the kind of projects that have to be contracted out. So. >> Yeah, thank you very much, and and I agree. I mean, we maintain our buildings excellently, but sometimes things need to be fixed, right? Just like a roof or anything. We could fix it every year, and after 30 years we need to fix it. >> Right. >> Um and also like you said, I mean the cupola is it would cost

027us probably more money if we took them down and just replaced the roof and then just adding the cupola cuz that's something else that comes up a lot. Why are we adding the cupolas blah blah blah. But it's cheaper for us to put the cupolas back up. That's the thing. >> the way we'll be repairing that re- redoing those cupolas, they won't need to be redone again in a few years. They will be good for a long long time. Um >> I mean it's like so it's like the um uh at the on the front of Wood Manor Oval where the columns are, there's the the sailing ship above that. So um the the original one was made out of mahogany and it was painted. And it was beautiful. Um but over the years what

028happens, water got into it and after let me I I can't remember how many years ago that fell apart. It was a roughly 10 10 12 years ago. Uh what one year that when they were doing the work for the prom, put it I guess the some of the vibrations, the whole thing just collapsed. And we said the ship sunk. Um so so we redid it, but it's redone in fiberglass. It looks you would nobody would ever know it wasn't the original one up there, but that will last that will last forever. Um what what's up there now. And the same kind of thing with in doing whether it be the cupolas, what we do the the soffits and the fascia, uh we use materials that will last a long long time. >> Right. >>

029And doesn't mean that they will never have to be replaced. You know, even Azek which is some people put on you know, for their decks, it has a lifespan as well, but it's much longer than the wood structures that were put around a lot of the buildings that we have. The buildings are beautiful. But the the newest building in the district is the high school which which was finished in 1972. And yes, all the buildings had additions on them. And the oldest building is at 1952. So, and I know one of the questions that came up from the emails that we received was, can we get grants for being historic sites? They're none of the buildings are historic sites, not one of them, not including Setucket. It's not a historic site. So, that's not under

030any protections of federal or state uh historic site preservation. So, that that's not part of this. Um and sadly in some ways, while we're a high wealth district, when we do apply for a lot of these grants, we don't get them because we're a high wealth district. They usually go for districts that are uh in much more desperate need of money than we might be, even though we are in desperate need of money right now for the certain things, but that's the way they look at it. Just just one point when we were talking about this and I thought Karen, you're going down the pathway. Uh Jeff, could you just tell the the board and the general public the 3.18 what the new tax cap would be? >> Oh, uh sure. The new tax cap

031by lowering uh by lowering capital, if we lower capital from from the 3 million down to 1.75 million, the new tax cap would be 3.84 million. And and this recommendation would be at 3.18%. >> But if it if the capital remained in the budget, what would the tax cap be? >> Well, then the cap is still 4.54%. >> still at the 4.54%. >> If the capital That that's the The only thing with with these changes that we're we're discussing that change with the cap is is capital. >> So, that would be the new cap number, but what would our number be if you go back up to 3 million? Well, the tax levy increase would be >> So, if we kept these changes that I just talked about, except capital stayed at 3 million, then

032our tax levy percent increase would be 3.88%. The cap would remain at 4.54, same as to budget vote, the cap. Uh but our our levy would come in at 3.88%. If we made the changes as I went over, except capital stayed at 3 million. >> Thank you. Mr. Dawson, you had something? >> Yeah, just to combine a couple of analogies here, right? Uh from my short duration on the board, it's not like repairs were put off. Um it's not like, you know, we willfully allowed these things to go into disrepair. Um I suspect, like in any household, when we have these large budget items come up, we plan for it. We time them. Maybe a kid leaves the school or, you know, some payment of the some other payment stops. Or we decide we're going

033to take out a HELOC to go do the work. Whatever it is, we find a way to fund it. So, sometimes these projects are best bundled together. And I think for a number of years, we've held off on these large projects by saying, you know, the plan is let's put them together. Let's get into bond. Let's do it. Um we And And actually, uh last year, the advisory committee actually recommended that we reduce the amount of capital in the budget because the bond was going to come up, and we reduced the amount of capital allocation in the budget that year. Right? So, we did that because it it lowered our cap. Um it'll it made for a better budget. But now that the bond has failed, if we don't put the capital back up at

034least to where it was, we run the risk of These are the projects Mr. Carlson has identified to work on this year. But what happens if something untoward does happen? We have We have older properties, and if one of the unaddressed items, something happens to one of them, the only place we would have to to fix it is to again go back into reserves. And right now, I believe we are at some very, very, very low level of distress notification. If we dipped into that reserve again, which we're trying our best to build back up, we're putting ourselves at a risk of being in much worse financial situation. So, it it would be my recommendation not to reduce. I I I understand this is a impact to the community. You know, we're trying to balance

035a lot of things here. But, we're setting up the community for further distress if if It's like saying, "Okay, let's let's not fix this roof this year. We'll deal with it when it happens, right?" And and when it happens, it's going to hit us in a way we're going to be forced to spend it or take go go lease another property, whatever we have to do. It it exposes us to even more spending. Uh my recommendation would be to not reduce the capital amount. >> I'll also jump on the bandwagon. I 100% think we need to to keep it at 3 million. I think, you know, we have very smart community members, and I think they realize the work needs to be done. You can't just, >> [clears throat] >> you know, make a fairy

036wish that it's going to go away. So, if it can't get done under a bond, it's got to get done inside the budget. Um as Karen said, that that was their will. That's fine. Um but, we do have to continue to to rebuild from there. So, I think part of the reason Sorry. >> Sorry, I just have some comments on that. >> Sure. I was just going to say part I think part of the reason some people were a little bit startled when they first saw the numbers is something began with the four, and I realize we're going back to a place where something begins with a four. But yet, we're going to come in, you know, under the cap. We're still compliant. Um so, I still think that that's kind of getting us the

037both the all best of both worlds. Stan? >> Sure. So, I have I have some thoughts related to the budget total, which I think relates to the capital projects as well, too. So, it's first just a quick question. So, tonight I I saw the specific items with the proposed budget reductions. I have thoughts on that, but that's not really the main That that's still fluid. I think tonight what we want is really that final number and that that capital project number also has to be finalized. Is that right? >> Correct. >> Okay. >> It's it's both. I think we want to have that robust conversation about the contents tonight because after this we only have the budget hearing at our next meeting and then it's the vote. So this is really the night. There's nothing

038else on the agenda so we can give this our full vibrant attention. >> Okay, so here's some thoughts. I'd like to propose a budget that has the highest chance of passing, right? If it doesn't pass, capital goes to zero and that's a bad situation. To do that, I think we seriously need to consider the idea of including start school later in the revote. As was discussed, our high school start time is 7:05, which is among the earliest 1% in the state. This is something that we have all previously agreed upon. It's a health issue and we really wanted to do it last year, but ultimately we didn't have the money in the budget, which would have increased the transportation costs by around a million dollars. Now, after the failed budget vote a few weeks ago,

039the the proposal we saw was to reduce the total budget by 2.1 million dollars. And the question I have is which version of that cut has the best chance of passing? A pure reduction of 2.1 million dollars sends a clear message to the voters that we heard you. However, for a voter who's solely concerned with minimizing their taxes, they're still going to vote no. The argument we're giving voters is come out and vote yes or things might get a lot worse. That's a defensive argument and it's not going to drive voter turnout. So consider this instead. We reduce that number, we reduce the tax levy by 1.1 million dollars, instead of 2.1 million dollars. This still acknowledges what the voters decided a few weeks ago that we need to tighten up on spending. A reduction

040of over a million dollars is not an insignificant amount. It's not a token gesture. However, this would free up the money to include the change to the high school start times. You're now giving the families of 1,000 plus high school students, as well as the middle school students and their families, a direct personal reason to show up and vote. Later start times would literally be on the ballot. This is not the ideal way to do things, right? But, as sometimes I hear in the boardroom, nothing is ideal about our current situation. In my opinion, however, this would have the best chance of passing, right? But, I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this idea as well. >> Just to show support to to start time. We've heard start time so many times, and I

041think we lost some of community trust because we move it due to budget limitation. And this time with the voter turnout, I really think we need to regain the trust that we lost with the community. I do think start time is an issue we should address. That's it. >> So, if there was one issue that I heard again and again when we talked to the community, um the one that shows up repeatedly outside of just reducing the amount is start time. It's, you know, that we need later start times, um and the funding for it. The one thing that I've also heard, and this was not particularly during budget time, but through the year, what I thought was a unidimensional issue, suddenly in my house, I'm going to get beaten up on once I get

042back home. Um when we look at it in comparative justification to what what else we have to lose or take in order to pay for that, always comes up in front of this board, right? Um So, if I look at this reduction that's planned here, and we look and say, "Okay, um capital is capital." If If we look at the slide here that says, "Okay, we're going to do five additional staff reductions, one staff reduction, co-curricular field trips, we're going to cut the budget in half." We're going to remove these other programs, and we're going to replace that with transportation, right? That That's sort of the trade-off we're we're looking to make here. I I don't I As much as personally I I want that, believe me, more than anybody else. I I don't like

043waking up, and I suddenly I'm not the one who wakes up. The rest of my family does. It's I don't know that in the community as a whole. I'm not talking about the parents. I I I think if you went to the parents, many of them would want this. I think if if you balance it with the taxpaying community in there, I don't neces- I don't know uh that that that there's a very clear will to fund this, or even with the parent community to fund this by taking these other things away, right? Which is what we're proposing right now. So, it's it it's not as clear to me that that that the answer is that easy. Um I I don't know if this is uh you know, doable. Um We've put up stuff in

044the hands of If the community wants to decide that they don't want to pay for this, I I think we should put this up to a proposition. I You know, in in principle, we've as this board has approved late start. I That approval I'm I believe still stands. This board believes that it's a health issue. This board believes that we should be doing this. We should be paying for it. We somehow can't seem to find the money for it. So, can we put a separate proposition in place that turns around and funds this, so that the community can come out and support it. And and and hopefully there's enough people Like it it it's a question of everybody paying for something, right? So that would be my proposal on this. Um I'm open to ideas.

045>> So just prior to the meeting this evening that was some some of the ideas we were floating around as well when when Stanley brought up the topic at that one point. Um unfortunately because of the time frame with we are we would have have had notification out to the community that there was going to be a proposition for this. And it's too late now to put another proposition on for this year. >> So my understanding also is if if you do it on a future year and the total amount you're spending on you know the budget plus transportation exceeds the tax cap then everything needs 60% of the vote. Whereas in this particular case because these are the proposed cuts that are being made, we would still be within the tax cap. It would

046include transportation. I don't know what what would the Do we know what the percent would be if we took the the the the [laughter] decreases and just put the $1 the the reduced by 1.1 1 million and added the transportation for >> Right. So if we took from the reductions that I went over and let I'll give it to you two ways with capital reduced and capital still at 3 million. All right. So if we if we kept capital at 3 million right? That means the tax cap is still 4.54%. And with the reductions other than capital that I done over if we made those reductions but added the transportation cost to do the start time which for this coming up year would be about 1.1 million dollars uh it mean it would make the

047tax levy increase 4.49%. So 500ths of a percent below the cap. So, it's still within the cap. Um meaning it does not need the 60%. Um and then it would if we if we made the reduction to capital and lowered the tax, which lowers the tax cap to 3.84% and then did that still same changes, then it would be at 3.8%. Um so, so either way it's it's below the cap. Then it then it then it's a matter of, okay, do we want to Um so, first, if we want to make those reductions and be well below the cap, or do we want to make those reductions, add the transportation cost due to the start time, so be within the cap, but almost at the cap. That's that. And then what do we want the

048cap to be? Do we want the cap to be at the still 4.54% meaning capital stays at 3 million, or lower lower capital to something, which lowers the cap. So, those those are couple of the things to >> Right. And I think, you know, hearing some of the conversations last night at the the listening session and some of the emails, some of the questions come up, well, it's the pool, you know, and the area around the pool. Well, you know, the community swim combined with our usage, it's part of our curriculum uh and at Ward Melville High School, we've been very blessed to have a pool. In fact, Stony Brook University with their anti-drowning uh co- uh um uh initiative sites us as one of the schools in in in Long Island that does a

049lot of education for training our children on how to swim. Um you live on an island, it'd be great if you could learn how to swim. Um the that has helped us a great deal. Also, we have a very robust athletic program in there. If the pool is not able to be used, we're going to have it we're going to have expense to have to send the team somewhere else to swim. And we'll have to come up with something. Now, there are arguments certainly if Kevin Feeney he was was here as the athletic director he'd be saying we should have the pool in there. Um there there are arguments that say that we should keep it, but it if you notice that was one of the the major things pulled out of that capital area.

050I think again so we don't we're not the administration nor the board perceived as being tone deaf to the plight of the community as I said before. We're dealing with a very harsh time right now. Inflation rates, gas prices, a lot of different things. And and I do agree with Stanley though try to get a budget passed at that point in time. What would make that more palatable to people? Um the the hope is that you know there's a a large enough contingent of people that are in favor of the start time that would come out and vote in favor of it and carry that vote. Um that's the hope. Um just so we're clear there was someone that mentioned last night at the meeting that there was a vote on this. There was a

051survey on this and then people voted in favor of it. The survey actually went on needs and identified are the students at the high school in particular sleep deprived? And the obvious end result of that was by all results was that they were. Um you know it is a very early start time. The the uh major issue though is with that having been the principal of a school where the start time was changed and the analysis that came after that and I've said this before at those meetings. It's great if you're going to change it, the change that what was contemplated here was a half an hour difference. Um the recommendation is actually to move it past 9:00. That would have a significant impact on what we do educationally in the district. Um so and

052then there's comparisons to another district in Nassau County where people say, "Oh, well, you know, they do it at 9:00 or 9:30." Well, they also do all their clubs and sport they do all their clubs at 7:15 in the morning. So, students do come in for that. And they come in this their middle school and high school are on the same campus. So, there's there's a major difference. Our middle schools and our high school are not on the same campus. But, we we look at that number with that time. Yes, it's all well and good but you can change the start time. The another major factor to that and you read some of those studies is there needs to be a bedtime for the children. If we push the time later and what happened in

053the district I was in, we pushed the time later, we did the post survey with it, and the kids were now not going to the bed earlier, they're actually staying up twice the amount of time that we moved the time back. At tonight, so then instead of going to bed at midnight or 1:00 in the morning, they were now going to bed at 1:00 a.m., 2:00 a.m. So, that they're still that's the partnership with the parental community and the school district to enforce that we need they need bedtimes. No matter what the age is, including teenagers. And there's teenagers that are putting their parents to bed in this community, just like in my house, too. Um, you know, that they're up later than all of us. Um, and there needs to be a bedtime in

054order for this to be effective. And that's the communication and the cooperation that we need to make clear if this were to go through. Great that if you change the time, I don't know if half an hour change is significant enough. And just so we're clear, when we did that analysis this would mean the two middle schools would go later. The we would have one of the elementary schools in the in the last study I think we did, the one of the elementary schools would be mirroring the middle school time and one of the early elementary schools would be going through parallel to the late elementary school times. So, the individuals in those early schools now having their time switched at this time of the year, may have an issue with that. And I'm hoping

055that just as you said, there's enough people that would support this that would negate any negative votes, but that might bring out also negative votes if they're hearing that, "Hey, by the way, um the other factor is, too, this would for the high school, we have we have the opportunity right now, the way we're structured, students can attend extra help, they can go to their club, they can go to their sport. If it's moved, the students are going to have to make a choice about what they go to. And it's there will be a conflict in particular between the extra help time and the club time. So, it's just just so again, for awareness for the entire board and the community that's watching, um because we have only about five current and former staff members

056in the district and one member of the press, um there's no one in the room with us, but anyone that's going to watch this later need to be aware of that impact of that, that that timing will have a major adjustment to how the the high school day looks. And right now we have a lot of students who are both in sports and in a club and go to extra help on a regular basis. Um so, just want to make sure there's a a lot of consequences that's going to be included in this. And it's not unintended. It would be intended uh consequences with this. So, uh we just need to be understand that that particular component of that. >> I I agree with Ami that I believe next year it should be put up

057as a proposition, and if the community wants it, then the community can vote for it. Um I don't think that this year um putting up a budget for a second time with that little of a decrease is going to get people out to vote. Um I mean, in all the emails and stuff that we've got, that we people have been asking what their main issues are, it hasn't been start times at the stop, it's been class sizes, it's been armed guards, it's been security Um that came in third or fourth place. So, if you know, if we're going really on what the community is asking us for that we're hearing, it's class sizes. Um So, but I do agree if the community wants to vote on it, they should. And since we cannot do it

058this year, it should be up for proposition for next year. >> I totally agree with that. Um I don't know if the budget went down because of start time. We heard from a lot of people with start time, but then there were also those out there that they don't want start time. They want to keep the starting time at the high school and our school is exactly the way it the way it is. But I do agree with Army. I do believe that next year on the voting, we should have a proposition. This way we can have budget and we can have start time. And by start time, if they want it, they vote it. If they don't want it, they don't vote it. They want to pass the budget, they pass it. If they

059don't, they don't. >> So, I agree with Army also. I think it should be a proposition next year because we all have to have to pass the budget that we are going to present now in order for our schools to run like they're running and keep them as good as they are. So, that's more important right now, unfortunately, than start time. And I think start time is important, but not as as important as the capital projects to keep the building safe and also to keep everybody going to school safely. And um you know, my boys went to start the early start time and managed to do everything. So, it's it's being done for many, many How many years, Kevin, have we had the start time like this? 50? >> Well, uh 14 years. This is

060the only district that had a start time committee in 2010 that went earlier, not later. The only district in the state of New York, which is the ridiculousness of it. >> [laughter] >> But we're still we're still we're still doing what we're supposed to do with educating our students very well. >> We are. >> You You what do we have? What 93% go go to college or what what is it more than that? >> It's more than that. >> More than that. I'm just saying we're doing what we're supposed to do. So, the start time while scientifically I understand monetarily it's not good for us this year. >> I I respect Dr. Becky bringing that up and my mind kind of went to the same place as I was thinking, you know, how do we

061how do we hear the community, right? We know this matters. We agree that it matters. Um but I I do think the lemonade here is that we've stumbled on a solution though it's postponing things. I think the solution is just to put it out to the community to make a decision because we do represent everybody and I will say over the years of conversation I've had as many people say don't please don't change it for for that cost I it's not worth it to me. My kid can struggle through. Others have said it's really really important. Please change it. So, I'm I'm in favor of putting it on as a prop next year. >> So So, just to be clear I mean I can count in the in the room so I'm not going to

062beat a dead horse, but the proposition plan if the total of the school budget next year plus transportation is over the tax cap, they both need 60% to pass including the school budget. That's my understanding of how how this mechanism works. >> is correct. So So, not that you need to decide it right now, but the the decision to make at the time come next next spring uh when it when it's time to adopt the budget would be uh do we want uh the first budget proposition to be let's say whatever within the tax cap and then the proposition for transportation puts it above the cap as Dr. Beck just mentioned, both pieces would need 60% even if the transportation piece fails. The original budget even though the budget without the transportation piece would be

063below the cap, it would have would need 60%. That the comptroller's office has been clear on that. Um the So, that would be one way to do it. The other way to do it would be Well, the the initial budget has to come in Let's use the number 1.1 million. Whatever it is next year, it'll be somewhere around there. 1.1 million At least 1.1 million dollars less than the cap, whatever the cap is next year. Then that the budget would need 50% and then the separate proposition for transportation if they both got approved, would still be within the tax cap. Then they would both need the simple majority, the 50% in order to pass. >> going to anticipate the question that's going to come online tomorrow morning and over the weekend. So, we'll have a

064You know, why didn't the board do this? And why didn't the administration put it on right away? Is this is the very tight time frame for when the initial budget goes in and the state sets that date. And the state sets the the June 16th date. And any districts that have failed a budget and are putting on up another budget, it's the same date throughout the entire state. So, that that window is very, very tight. And we had to get public notices out within that very quickly. So, this this didn't come up until after that time frame passed. So, it's not to anyone's fault. It's the topic wasn't raised at that particular time. Yes. >> And I think that that there's the impetus right there. That's the inspiration that we have for the next 12

065months to create a budget, to hopefully find other ways to become more efficient and streamline. So, that we can combine the two of them and come in under the cap. And and that you know, gives it a much better chance of passing. >> So, it was one of the things that was questioned last night by someone that um you know, if these numbers do come true with with the retirements and things that are anticipated. And again, Dr. DeBrusky and Mr. Wells did a presentation on that back in the fall. Uh we're anticipating another 20 teachers retiring and we do have 19 teachers past eligibility. Now, another factor that might influence those individuals to go is now is because there's a negotiation for a new contract with the teachers union. So, whatever the outcome of that

066contract might be whether there's things to benefit or not to benefit, that's for the negotiations process between the union and the board. Um but if those all those folks left, there may be savings opportunities there where again through attrition, just like we did this year, we had 21 retirements 18 of the of those teaching positions are not replaced through attrition. Um but uh make no mistake, we are we are increasing class sizes due to that in many areas. Um we have uh if we do wind up having uh some changes where we have new students coming in we're going to have to pull money to from other areas within the budget in order to support the staffing to be to reduce the class sizes in certain classes. Um that's without question. Um so, you know,

067there's there's again, those are consequences of of this as well. >> So, if we are postponing this this just a couple of quick points. Um the other trend we've received is, you know, every year we do promise because of these teacher retirements, there's going to be a pot of money. And at least for the last 2 years, uh we've had a nice healthy increase in our health insurance premiums. And if if there's one factor that's completely thrown the budget every year off, it's been that. Um so, two requests is one um if Mr. Carlton, if we can look at the insurance the way we fund insurance. I know we do that through the consortium today. I think we should it should be an ongoing every year thing that we're we're comparing it to MASIP and

068what the trends look like or any other provider because the this is not a sustainable business. If if we kept if we kept everything the same and we had a $0 increase in our budgets for the next 3 years, we would still get taken out if our health insurance kept rising the way it is today, right? I mean, that's had the single worst swing in our financial situation. So, if we can take a look at that, if you don't mind. >> Not at all. >> That's that's one request. The second thing is >> And by the way, I do a comparison every year to nation. >> Okay. >> I I I always I always do that. >> It it might be worth it, you know, to bring that data to the community in general, to

069the extent that it's shareable. It it might be worth it. Uh because I don't know that everyone in the community you know, knows um the the amount that is paid um by by the school as a total and then how much of it is paid by the different units. So, I think it might be worth sharing. The other piece is I actually heard a phenomenal idea yesterday from one of the parents who had come to the listening session is um why don't we let the students have a crack at it? And and I think it's a fantastic idea. There are computer science students. There are projects. Um why don't we let them at this transportation problem? I I I know you have trained staff and you do this every year. If we're going to decide

070on this next year anyway, why don't we let them see if one of them comes up with a more optimal solution? Um and if they do, we can recognize them. If they don't, so at least we know we know what the amount is, but if there's a way to reduce that million-dollar impact to something lower. >> I'm just going on record that I'm not putting anyone in my pickup and bringing them to school. I just want to make sure that that's understood before we go any further cuz I know I've been told that I'm I I I make too much money as the superintendent in this district um multiple times by people um but you know, we're going a little extreme with some of that stuff. But I I don't disagree that you know, we

071should take a look at it. Well, I I truly do believe the students may be able to take a crack at it. Um I am very confident in what our transportation department has done and Mr. Carlson has done. Uh listen, if there if there was a way to save money, um Jeff will find it. Um and I will So, a lot of history is lost here over time. When the change was made for the start time that we currently have, we received an efficiency grant. And Jeff, what was the amount of money the district received at that time? >> $747,000. >> So, if we because of the change that was made for that. >> That's not how much we saved. >> No, no, no. >> That was we saved at the time it was over

0721 and 1/4 million dollars per year. And as a result of that savings, the New York State gave us it was called a management efficiency grant of $747,000. >> So, that grant, uh Mr. Carlson filled out uh and and got and it was one of the few times we got something that was beyond what we normally would get anyway for for just being a school district uh based upon what was done. So, I I we're not going to get that if we go the opposite direction. Just want to make sure. >> I think and and just a final point on this is I think you brought this up yesterday in the listening session as well. One of the reasons that our transportation costs remains high or it or unadjustable, if you will, is because of

073legislative reasons around around what must be offered to the student, etc. It might be worth it again. We have time to advise the community on that. Perhaps there's a campaign, but I think if this can be addressed legislatively, I think we should make our attempt to do so. >> Right. And and tonight would also be a good time to mention that with that state budget that Jeff was mentioning, uh they did vote to push out the electrification process. So, the new purchases of new buses starting in 2027 has now been moved out to 2020 2032. And the full electrification of all buses, whether it's a private fleet or in our case where we contract out for buses, is to 2040 for the whole fleet to be converted over. So, that will help in the in

074the long run, as well. Um the other piece you had mentioned about the health insurance, if we were currently with NYSHIP, and this question did come up last night at the listening session, as well, um our insurance rate would have been higher. Uh so, it it does go back and forth. >> Yes. >> Uh there was a period of time when NYSHIP was much higher than us. They they the rates, I think, past couple years have been lower. >> close. >> Yeah. >> They're pretty close, but but we're paying less this year than had we had NYSHIP. >> And over the past I'm going to say 10 years, um it's more than $10 million less that we've paid >> Yep. >> Right. than if we had been in NYSHIP. >> Now, the the debatable piece,

075though, is the services rendered in each of those plans. So, there might be people that will argue that NYSHIP is a better plan than what we >> have. >> Uh we're in a consortium of three districts, the other two being South Country and and uh and Smithtown. >> So, there used to be four. Sayville pulled out many many years ago. Um but that that is something there there's a perception that oh, every school district in the state of New York is NYSHIP. That is absolutely not the case. Mostly upstate districts are consortiums. The east end of Long Island are consortiums. Um it's a downstate majority of it's downstate with school districts being NYSHIP plans. So, uh could there be other plans? Certainly, we can take a look at that, as well. You know, there's there's

076other factors that we can look at. >> Right. So, so this year, if I excuse me for interrupting, uh for the current school year, if we had NYSHIP, we'd be spending This is combined district share and employee share. It's $684,000 more if we had NYSHIP. Is what the rate What >> The Okay. And and and what you're saying is over the 10-year period, that's what you were saying that consistently over that 10-year period, our night shift the night shift rates have been >> Yeah, the year before was 3.4 million, the year before that was 4 million. Less uh last time night shift last time night shift was less than what what our plan is was for the '21-'22 school year. Um That was the last time. But >> Thank you. Appreciate that. Thank you. >>

077And and oh >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Sorry. >> [music] >> And I just wanted to also comment today about the start time transportation piece. Um the start time committee did request we get a consultant to look at the numbers because they didn't agree with what Jeff's office was putting out. Um and the consultants came back with worse numbers than what uh the transportation office did. And so what Jeff's office did a fantastic job >> I I you know, and not that I was if somebody can come up with a better idea, I'm great. I'm fab- fabulous. I don't think it has to be my idea. Um but I had spent so much time, and not just me. I mean, the transportation office over I mean, we started talking about the start time back in

078uh uh 2019. And we spent so much time doing so many different scenarios, and this is the best that we could come up with. And and as as you mentioned, we had the the consultant in that that has been a consultant for a number of districts around the country that have done start time changes, and they the right there there was one >> Did they actually look at the routes, or did they simply look at >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> And it cost us $80,000 for the consultant. >> Well, no, that one was uh 30 29,000 >> 29,000, I'm sorry. $29,000 for the consulting company coming in. >> So so >> So I thought I remember the Sorry. No, it was the it was the same question about whether they I know they moved the

079routes around, but it's whether they redid the whole compu- I think this this idea though of releasing the data set there's some precedent to that. I think Boston Public Schools did it, A much larger school district, right? And they didn't do the students, they did the community and there was some smart student from MIT that, you know, won the competition. I think I think there's there's data concerns. I think they need to privatize. They had like anonymized random data and then the top three would get the real data, something like that. So, it wasn't it's not straightforward, but it's it's somebody's done it before. So, there's some precedent. >> Oh, yeah, listen. I And I'm not saying it can't be done, but like Boston, uh if you looked if you if you look at what

080Boston had prior to that, it was one of the most inefficient uh routing systems in the whole country for any big city. So, um I I don't mean to to to minimize what they did, but I I I think to go from a a very inefficient system and say, "Well, we're able to make a lot of improvements to it." is >> I'm not suggesting that that absolutely is and what I'm saying and it's a good it's a [laughter] good project for students to work on. >> Yeah. It's a good project for students to work on. >> Sure. >> And you know, sometimes schooling exposes things humans don't see. So, if there is, there is. If there isn't, sorry. >> Yeah. >> Going back Going back to that change with the start time, I'll just let

081you know it was uh again, being in a principal of school school that did that, um the major argument just like here was the start time was too early, so that's why I drive my kid to school and that's why the traffic is so bad at the high school. That was the argument even where I was then when we did it. And following year, we actually had more people driving their kids to school even with the later start time. So, I'm not saying that that might be the case here, but it you know, it would helps us too and we mentioned it last night, if parents are going to drive their kids to school and that's your choice, we you know, you want to be with your child. I drove my child to school several

082times. You would go to school early and for extra help and tutoring and sports. I I that that's your parental choice. Um but when they check off that they want the bus all the time and they're driving the kid everyday, it it kind of defeats the purpose. And then we get complaints of why is there seven buses passing by my house today? Well, if especially some of our families that live on the west side of the district, some of the Smithtown buses actually cross into some of the neighborhoods that come that bring our students to school. So, not all of them that and then also the private school buses pass through those same neighborhoods. What what is strange for us comparatively to other places and when you look at Nassau County, Nassau County some Nassau

083County districts have their own buses. The district I came from was a quarter of the size in area that this district is. We are 22 square miles. That's a large area. And then the northern part of the district, a lot of small narrow roads where we can't send big buses. So, and then there's the other factor of time on the bus. How much time is a child going to be on a bus? And that that's one of the thing that our transportation department takes a very careful look at. We don't want younger students on the buses too long. And and the high school is located in the far corner of the district, the opposite corner of the most sparsely populated area of the district. So, there's a lot lot of factors just with this transportation.

084And I will go on record again and agree with Bill Sharry and Stanley. I said before, I'm going to say it again. I firmly believe as superintendent of schools that the start time is an unhealthy practice of what we have right now. Said that before, say it again. I fully do support that and it's something we it still remains on the five-year priority list for us to to try to take a look at. It's not as if we're ignoring the perception of this or trying to you know, kick it kick it can down the road. But we're we're in a catch-22 in this district. If if if we were saying that we were changing for an hour, might be we might get a lot more support. A half hour is just seemingly a a very

085small amount of time for the overall mass of cost with a million plus dollars to do this. So, it's just something to consider. And had this been brought up earlier, we might have been able to have worked that in to that that component of the budget uh as well even before this was you know we we're in this situation where we the budget went down. >> Sure. Sure. >> Okay. Related with buses, so we were asked by parents if we return back to not providing service for the last mile, how much would that save us roughly? >> Well, when we went to Universal Transportation, uh we added at the time we had to add four buses. So, I don't I don't I mean without doing the analysis, I I I wouldn't say absolutely it would

086be mean four fewer buses. It might mean that, um but but keep in mind the reason we went to that in the first place is be the chief reason. Uh well, no, I'm I'm going to give you a couple of reasons, but but one of the biggest reasons was we had uh kids that attend Murphy who had to were they were within that limit, and they had to cross Nichols Road. Um so, that was a that was a big concern. Um there was also um you know, the the roads are on Gelinas. Well, the traffic isn't as high as Nichols Road, of course. Uh there's also no sidewalks, let alone no shoulders, and they're they're windy narrow roads. So, that was a a big concern for a lot of people. So, that's why we went

087to that had that proposition up in the first place. And and just to remind everybody, that's not something that even the board has the authority to just change. That has to go for a vote to the community to change those miles. >> And that did come up last night at the meeting as well. We did say that. >> And I think as long as we're talking about bussing, another question that comes up I get it. I I have full faith that the routing has been exhausted, that it's the perfect routing, but people get really frustrated with the utilization. So, they see these buses running very, very close to empty. And is there nothing we can do to mitigate that? You know, I know you can't make people pledge they're actually going to get on the

088bus, [clears throat] but >> Yeah, well, so so what really governs it is how many bus What is the the the How many buses do we need at any one time? So, so really it's it's like the the the three late elementary schools, right? We need those buses for them. So, so now we have the bus. So, we have We have different prices for a 4-hour bus, a 5-hour bus, 6-hour bus, 7-hour bus, but there's not a whole lot of difference. There's not a not a big difference in cost between a 6-hour bus and a 7-hour bus. The The thing is, do we need a bus? And once we have it, we make as much use of it as we can. Uh cuz the the the the real difference is needing a bus or not

089needing, you know, any the the the number of buses. Um so, so while doing Murphy and Gelinas' routes, we may not need all of our buses, but we need them for the three late elementary schools. So, since we need them anyway, we'll use them for other things. Um and the reason I mentioned that the sparsely most sparsely populated area of the district being furthest from the high school is so we we can have we can have a bus drive through, you know, the the Head of the Harbor, Old Field area. It could drive you know, a quarter mile or or a half a mile, pick up one student, then drive another quarter mile or a half mile, pick up another student, then one more student, then one more student. And if we tried to do

090that 40 times and then drive 20 minutes to the high school, the The student will be on the bus for over hour. So, we can't have that. And then we have other areas of the district where they can make one stop, 10 kids get on, another stop, 15 kids get on, another stop, 20 kids get on, and then it goes a 5-minute ride to the high school. So, some of those buses are packed and some don't have that many kids on them, but we need the buses at some point. And that's if we if we could do it without them, you know, it's it's kind of like if you were to say you know, right now, look at the the people on on a Long Island Railroad train. Well, it's pretty packed. If you were

091to look at noon, you say, "Well, there's hardly anybody on the train. You don't need so many trains." Well, you do at some points of the of the morning or afternoon. So, that's you know, transportation and the bus company, they go through that every year and try to minimize the number of buses we need. And and I Well, when I say the bus company, too, it's it's it might seem counter to why would they try to minimize the number of buses? Sure, the more buses, the more money they make, but it's hard for them to get bus drivers. And without bringing all kinds of other things into it, once the once the with the the immigration and the and the ICE agents showing up around, suddenly they lost a lot of their bus drivers. They

092just they just left. It's hard for them to get bus drivers. So, they're looking to try to maximize as well as us. So, so that's why sometimes we'll see not many kids on a bus, but it doesn't mean we don't need that bus. >> Thank you. Other topics? I'll jump in with one. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> I just wanted to go over the list of the proposed reductions from the original budget. >> Let me turn the slides bigger. >> Just start the back arrow. >> I'm making everybody flip. >> Flip the arrow. >> That's up. >> All the way. >> Go back. >> Go forward. >> There you go. >> Okay. Um just down to the co-curricular and field trips. So, what does that exactly mean for the students? Does that include

093elementary field trips? Is that just secondary? Does that include us paying the advisors but not paying uh additional funds for student activities? Like how what what is the most >> Uh some of all of that. Um and we would work with the building principals as to how best to to make that work. Uh in some cases, it would be um not doing as many trips. Um in some cases, it would be trying to combine clubs that had maybe similar similar type of um missions. Uh so, maybe instead of having and I'm I'm making up numbers. Instead of having a club with uh 11 kids in it, another one with 14 kids in it, another one with 16 kids in it, each one getting having an advisor that we pay, maybe merge those into one club.

094Maybe they're similar enough where we can merge into one club with one advisor, for example. Uh and maybe not as many trips or maybe the trips are more um paid for by parents or maybe they can do some fundraising. Right. So, so we would work with the uh building uh principals with that as and figure out the best way to make that work. >> Just so we're careful so we don't again don't get more calls and emails about this. This is we do not want students if they're doing a fundraising doing door-to-door solicitation. Um that would be a no-no. We you we we don't know what houses they're going to and what what they're doing. Um but if there's other ways to do do a lot of fundraising. Um PTAs have done it. Um the

095different different events in different locations. Um but even even bake sales and car washes are are still done out there. Um but the number has risen in the number of clubs uh exponentially over the course of years. And you know what the the has been suggested to perhaps do it all at one level. Um but then we have students that rely on some of those clubs for like we were talking about high school students who have you know they're trying to build resumes to or for colleges and and considerations for jobs out there. At the same time we we want to be cognizant of the fact of after school activities for some students even in the elementary level are important. Um you know and trying to encourage that. And the the most important factor for

096student success is involvement in school. So the more a student is involved in and and and like school and stays in school the more successful they are. So our clubs have served that purpose. The same is true with athletics. It's the same concept with athletics. The more they're involved. And you know last count last year when we were doing the studies I think Mr. Finney provided an analysis. Out of the 1,400 plus students at the high school last year 1,200 of them were in sports. So that that shows a significant participation rate. So um you know we want to be cognizant of of some of these things. You don't want to cut our nose off to spite our face. And I I know you know even when we set the 2021 budget there was no

097detrimental impact in that year because of the work that was done to prevent that students. It's almost unavoidable now what we just experienced that that someone is going to feel some pain with this. Uh and what we looked at here with things that would minimalize that to our students for the most part across the board. And that was our chief uh factor when we looked at those those issues. >> Um then in arts and ed, is that basically the money that the district sets aside for each school, but will that also affect the PBIS funding? >> Not Not really the PBIS funding. This is the cultural bringing in the different presentations and things. >> our bowling presentations. >> Absolutely. Yes, that's that's separate and distinct from >> That's separate and distinct. Okay. >> Can you

098tell me what the $25,000 is for adult education? Because I know we pay for adult education. Is that someone's salary that's putting it together? >> No, it the the tuition that we received doesn't quite cover all of the cost. So that it is a cost of about $25,000 to the district for the adult >> So maybe we can keep the adult education and up the prices. >> That's possible. >> Right. >> Yeah, for sure. >> That would have the same effect as as as >> And that And that has been done with other things such as the enrichment program and community swim and uh summer rec and and half-day rec. Uh we have increased fees across the board in a lot of those areas and that has offset it. So yes, it could be. It

099also could do the other opposite effect that some people might say, "Well, I'm not doing it anymore." too. So >> So I want to say You and I were on the same side. So so community swim is it's similar. I thought it was a self-sustaining program. If it's not self-sustaining, I will say that program fills up. Like you go to register and when you pull out your credit card, it's full. So the the demand is there, right? So making it a self-sustaining program, I think that's that's doable. Unless it's about the pool, right? That's the question. >> That's more of the case because it's the usage of the pool. And if if we're concerned about the starting blocks and the uh the diving board and the equipment and the bleachers which we showed pictures when

100we did the bond of what they look like where they're rusting. Um and it does have a dehumidification system built into the uh into the area. Um it that's that's going the more it gets use used, it will start to deteriorate faster. Which may cause us to have to look for another location for the teams first in that regard. But then it also means we have to change our curriculum within phys ed uh classes because we that is one of the units that we do. We do swimming as a unit. I think it's sophomore year, right Brian? That we have that unit. >> But but if capital were to go back to 3 million, our recommendation will be to put the pool work back in. >> Correct. >> So, that would be less of a

101concern of ours if By the way, uh one more thing about the transportation uh with the number of kids on when when someone sees bus with few kids and so So, there's right now between Gelinas and Murphy, there's only 33 minutes between Gelinas and Murphy's dismissal and Minnechaug and Nauset takes dismissal. So, the buses that we need for Minnechaug and Nauset, they they can't do much for Gelinas and Murphy. They just don't have the time to drop those kids. So, they might only do a handful of kids those buses. So, we'll we'll use them for Gelinas and Murphy, but they can't do they can't do 40 kids or you know, whatever 35 kids on the bus from Gelinas and Murphy and still drop those kids off and then get to uh Minnechaug or Nauset take

102within 33 minutes. So, we use them, but they can't do full routes. So, you might see a bus pull out of uh Gelinas or Murphy with 12 you know, eight or 10 or 12 kids on it and say, "Why do we have Why is there so few kids on it?" Well, because they might have a route that they have to do at Minnesauke Nassau Gate. So, that's another example. >> So, one of the questions that come up about this uh the financing and and the support that the clubs and all receive um for the extracurricular activities. And Mr. Scanlon, you had mentioned before that in general school facilities are prohibited schools are prohibited from accepting corporate sponsorships, right? And you've given the example of cigarette makers, for example. >> Right. >> Um does that but

103that doesn't prohibit, for example, private sponsors or corporate sponsors from sponsoring like boosters or other and and the STEM Foundation is an example. >> Absolutely. Yes. >> So, the if people did want to make a donation or if the students were able to go fundraise through those as long as a booster organization was able to support them, they would be able to gain more funds? >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Cuz it's we cannot in New York State doesn't make any difference with public school. [music] You cannot have uh uh a a corporation sponsoring something. Private schools can. Private schools are not not governed in any way, shape, or form by that regulation. But the public schools cannot have corporate sponsorship. >> Okay. It might be uh I think I mentioned this before. It might be

104worth it to tell these booster clubs to go get themselves registered on the giving platforms that are available. There's a lot of corporate programs that make it easier to donate. Um if they're part of these clubs, might be worth it to get them some information on that. >> Yes. Agreed. >> Uh I'll touch on one of the other ones that we got some questions about. Can we talk a little bit about um the IG program? And and >> Yes. >> how that evolved. That's the thing. >> Sure. So, um I'll give the long history of IG and then short and tell a little bit. So, uh IG in this district was uh third through sixth grade at one point in time where it was two sections for each grade level with roughly about 30 students

105in each grade level. Um that was back in the '90s and then the requirement came along and I'm not sure exactly when the date for that was. Gary might know the for the uh cert- you had to be certified IG. The teachers that we had currently in the program were grandfathered, but anyone that was hired after that had to have the certification for that program. Over the course of years, the third grade IG went away before I came back here in 2012. Um then uh sixth grade moved up to the middle school level this year. Fourth grade was done away for this current year in favor of bringing back the STEAM program, which if everyone remembers, prior to COVID, we had a a STEAM teacher in every building. Uh was a very robust program, a

106very sought-after program. Uh they they actually worked with every single grade level in each of the elementary schools. Um so, that went away when COVID hit. We needed those teachers to be dispersed into other things. Some became coaches, some became um uh um instructors in classrooms. So, where we are right now, the the current STEAM program has done a remarkable job. I'm going to let Dr. Mascari answer part of what uh the teacher is in the program is currently doing and uh expand a little bit on that. Since he hasn't had a chance to press a button yet today. >> [laughter] >> I'm okay with not pressing a button. Um so, um Gina Verrecchia who teaches the course has done a wonderful job in implementing it. Um she developed the curriculum with the help of

107um former um STEAM teachers. And for right now, we have it for all of fourth grade. So, they're you know, engineering challenges. There are, you know, we've tried to highlight those things on social media. I think News 12 was there earlier in the year. We We heard from the community that um that the research part was very important to maintain, so we implemented the IRP similar to what was done in the IG program for all of our fourth graders. So, really the outreach has been to an entire grade level now. And it's been received extremely well. I've been to Ms. Bracci's class a couple of times and to see her in action and the students engaged has been quite amazing. You know, they're constantly working on things, trying to figure things out. So, basically, when

108even just this morning I went to curriculum council at Eastern Eastern Suffolk BOCES, and they had um They're talking about the the New York inspires and the portrait of a graduate and the types of things that that we're going to be headed towards in in our students showing proficiency in certain areas. What Ms. Bracci is doing with her class is exactly what the what the state is looking for. It's not so much paper pencil tests. It's doing. It's showing. It's explaining. So, it's it's exciting to see, and I know that you know, at this point we're looking to expand that program to fifth grade. Um so, we ran that process, and we're going to be adjusting the curriculum now so that we have fourth grade maybe as the foundation of the IRP with the fifth

109grade doing individual research projects you know, more extensively than what we had done in fourth grade. So, we see it as a an opportunity and an opportunity to have all of our students challenged in one way or another, and it's been extremely successful so far. >> The other thing that the teacher in the program has has done is that she's offered an enrichment component, and that program has actually served 97 students probably. I think that was the number. >> Yeah, the original IRP that she did have was um they all did a similar topic uh just for consistency and ease of grading and working with the students. But then Ms. Bracci asked um the students who would like to do an additional independent research project and we had 97 out of the 400 some somewhat

110students or 300 somewhat students that that wanted to participate in that. So, she's meeting with students about their individual research projects and she's uh you know, helping them along with topics that that they chose for the second half of it. So, that's been productive along with the partnership that we had with Stony Brook and the uh the AI presidential challenge that we had participants take place in uh take part in as well. >> And the interesting thing is that 97 students is larger than when the IG program was at its height in the past few years here in all three grade levels combined. We didn't have that many students in the program. And right now it's been about the mid-20s in the fifth grade. Um so, this would be a budget neutral process if the

111IG teacher coming out of that program is and it's replaced with a STEAM teacher in that program. It it's not an up or down cost. So, it would serve more students. And over the course years the numbers in the classes were diminishing. The primary reason because for 10 years I was in Brian's role and I did the presentations on this that we heard from parents, they didn't want their child leaving their home school. And you know, we've had discussions on well, then we should have an IG teacher in every building. But we only have three certified IG teachers right now and Gary can tell you it's like, you know, finding a unicorn. Yeah. Right. So, there there is not a lot of uh opportunity to find people it's for that that program. If I may.

112>> And please express our thanks to Ms. Bracci because the feedback on that program has been phenomenal, right? At the same time, and we did hear from a parent of the listening session yesterday as well, I think there is a need for students in the elementary I I think one of the advantages of the movement of the grades has been that students can get into the accelerated classes earlier. It's students can adopt it without needing additional transportation. It's it's really nice. But at the elementary school level, there are students who are gifted. There are students who are able to perform at higher levels. Um And I think we hear it time and again that, you know, for what however IG was framed, it was helping some of those students. Is there something we can be

113doing for students, you know, who are gifted in math, who are able to do better, who need to be challenged because those the same students, if they're one or two standard deviations above in capabilities, you know, they'd be bored out of their minds in these in these classes. >> Yeah, so so so we're clear, the curriculum in the grade levels in public schools in New York is the same across the entire grade level. Even if they when they were IG, it wasn't a different curriculum. It was an enhanced curriculum. New York State does not permit acceleration of curriculum at an elementary level. Again, private schools can do what they they want. Public schools are not permitted to do that. Different than at a secondary level where you can be accelerated in different courses at different

114times. However, there is a policy of the board where students who are um parents may feel that they are not being challenged enough, parents can ask to have their child tested to see if they should skip a grade level. This This has been happening consistently throughout the state of New York. This is not a new concept. This is permiss- fully permissible in the state education department. It's been going on. New York City system had it for years. You could my mother-in-law graduated at 17 from high school and was already in college at that point in time. You can advance that way. So, what the parents need to do in that process is contact their teacher, talk about what the challenges may be, speak to the building principal, and then we do testing, psychological testing for

115mostly for the sake of maturity levels to make sure the child from a maturity level has the capabilities of going into that level. Because you don't want to have a have a child feeling that you know, they're not being supported and and they don't have the emotional fortitude to be able to pursue that further. So, and we're very lucky that we have all of the mental health supports in this district. And you know, the interesting thing is while there are special education regulations in New York State, there is no regulations for they're now called high ability learners, no longer gifted and talented learner. So, there is no regulation for that. New York does not have it. There are other states that do, we do not. And by the way, 14 years ago we brought in

116a national consultant that told us we should do away with our program and and fold the students into into the classes. So, >> If I may just ask a quick follow-up question on that, is it an all or nothing? Like do they have to be placed in a higher grade or can they go up, let's say, from math to a higher grade? >> We have we have over the course of years placed students in other grade level for a particular course, yes, as well. We did it also between when sixth grade was still in the elementary level going into the junior high school level. They did that. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. >> Other topics? All right, I'll jump in with one. Um, so we've had a couple of questions from community members who

117said, "Okay, I see the statistics, fewer students, why do we still have five elementary schools?" >> Certainly. So, the uh the school closure repurpose committee met this year and it met twice, but they did a robust amount of work, provided a lot of data, a lot of information, and financial numbers. Um this was also a topic when I was hired for this role as superintendent 5 years ago, the board at the time presented a challenge of we want to see changes. And that was the initial reason why we went to the strategic plan and looked at all those things. For a new superintendent coming in and trying to tackle all these things at once, it was like being covered in gasoline and running into a fire. So there was a lot of changes for our

118district a lot at once. And you know, one of those topics was to take a look at whether or not we should close or repurpose a school. Part of that that remember that survey that we did way back in 2022-23, I think that was the year. Uh we I'm full of blur now. Um was the fourth option of the options that were presented. The first option was to remain in our current configuration, junior junior senior high school, K-26 elementary schools. The next option was to to move both the sixth and the ninth grade up, and then have the elementary schools that become middle schools and a full high school. Third option was just to move the ninth grade, and the fourth option, and I'm going to say the these words and I'm probably going to

119have hate mail by tonight, uh the Princeton plan, which meant closing an elementary school and reconfiguring the district to have two primary schools, two intermediate elementary schools, two middle schools, and a high school. Uh that fell in the rankings by the people that were surveyed dead last. Um as far as cost savings would go, the estimate back then was almost $4 million in cost savings between transportation and moving all classes. Um so the the more recent school closure repurpose committee looked at those as well. A closure of a single school right now would save about $1.5 million dollars. Now, what that school could become after that and we we were very fair. We listed out every single elementary school in alphabetical order, what the what the numbers would look like in each of the schools

120so everyone would have an idea of what that would be. Um we didn't say this school should close because this is the split school or this school should close cuz it's the smallest school or this school should close cuz it's the oldest school. We gave data on everything. Um but if the thought is let's if we did that uh what are these other mitigating factors out there and what was out there and at the time uh what the committee was hearing is the governor's proposal in January was for 2028-2029 to go to full-day pre-K program. As Jeff mentioned earlier, that passed. So, in 2028-2029, we currently have a half-day program. Our half-day pre-K program must go to a full-day program. Which means based on this year's requests for pre-K, we would have to add at

121least 10 additional sections of pre-K classes. That means 10 more teachers and 10 more SCAs. Now, part of that staffing could be uh absorbed through the enrichment program would be done away with and those those uh SCAs would be absorbed into the program so it would be a five additional at that point. Again, this is only based on the numbers this year. Those numbers could go up, those numbers could go down. We can't predict even what our kindergarten numbers are going to be. And just so we're clear, even with that state piece about [clears throat] the mandated full-day pre-K, the state still hasn't mandated kindergarten yet. The compulsory age level is still first grade. So, the ridiculousness is you go to pre-K for a year, come go home for a year, then come back in

122first grade. No, that's not the intent. You want Yeah, the gap year doesn't work in elementary school. We There's There's a little Someone's not reading the the fine print here somewhere along the line. So, if that's required, we're going to have to plan for this as we move forward. Now, uh the the property analysis committee said there's I'm sorry, the school purpose of closure committee said don't close the school just yet. Let's wait a year. Let's see what all these other things if this goes through. Well, if this just went through. So, that committee the board agreed that they're going to reconvene that committee again next year. I would probably recommend that starts in the fall as opposed to you know, the winter when we when we began cuz we were working in a very

123tight time frame to get the information to the to the board for the purposes of determining the budget. So, now that we have this now we have this information about the pre-K program, we should probably start plotting earlier what that would look like. So, now the answer then could be yes, well, you know, why are the schools you have we have all these schools they were filled to you know, capacity with thousands students years ago. What's going on now? Well, several factors changed. Back in the early late 90s when those wings were added on, your class sizes in many cases were between 25 and 30. Yes, the buildings had a lot more students. But, what has come along too, even though the population was larger than than it is now, we have a lot more

124students in areas like special education and ENL in particular that require services and have things like speech, OT, PT, reading, you name it that require additional spaces for those areas. One of the things that the school repurpose closure committee looked at too was we've had those portables outside our buildings for years. They were only supposed to be here for 10 years. They've been here for over 30. Two years ago we moved the SAC program in from Mount into the building cuz those portables were in in bad shape. And our maintenance department has done their best of keeping up those structures as well, but they are still portables. So, the recommendation from the committee to the board remember was move all the SAC into the buildings. So, SAC for next year will be inside the buildings

125and not in the portables any longer. So, that eats up about four or five classrooms per building depending on the number of students that have signed up for the program. So, while people might think, "Oh, there's there's so much space. There is all these other kids now. There's not." Well, now we have all these other specialized programs in there. So, ENL we have at Minisink and Mount. We have special education in several of our elementary schools as well. Um it it there the numbers do shift. Our ENL population has grown by 400%. Um Mr. Visoky can recall that when he wrote ran the program. Ms. Colleen who's now coming on to the board when she was director of world languages in the elementary can recall she was present for that large growth spurt that we

126had. And it is a very robust program and it is attracting a lot of families. Now, if the if the population continues to decline uh in the elementary levels, it might make sense to then close a school and and library again would recommend repurpose it. Perhaps the district would then make that one school the pre-K center for the district. Um we've talked about moving the academy out of here. Uh we've talked about expanding the academy. We've talked about moving some of the offices out of here. Um so, those are all still things that are in the works at this point in time. So, I think it's we need to have that committee reconvened in the fall and then make a determination. But, for next year the recommendation was to keep the five elementary schools intact

127as right now. >> Great. >> And we'll and we'll go from there. >> I just wanted to add to that cuz I did get a bunch of emails um asking about that committee. Um >> [laughter] >> uh and I guess how it was formed and why it was only two meetings. So, um it was really only two meetings cuz we were in a rush to get it for the budget, but we had all the information that they needed. So, it wasn't We didn't need to have a 6-month committee to make one decision. They had a very um focused mission and we had all the information to give them. that's really why they only needed two meetings to make that decision. Um you know, we also get that we fill a lot of our committees with

128um district employees, so it's not fair. Well, for this committee we we actually reduced the amount of numbers of staff that were in there to one per unit and we included when we picked our um community and family members, we picked two from each school plus community and secondary members. So, um if the parents showed up to the meetings, there was many more than employee um employees. And at the end of it, they unanimously agreed that they did not want to close the school. So, you know, everybody saying we need to listen to our community, they listened to the community and they voted to keep the school open and that's what it is. We will reconvene maybe in the fall and every year we need to keep looking at that to see if it's still

129viable, but the committee was a valid committee. It wasn't smoke and mirrors like people are saying. They looked at real data and we had um a good cross-section of people in there. Uh you know, I think a lot of new people, which is great and new voices and that's what they decided unanimously. So, we'll we'll convene at that next year. >> And interestingly enough, some of the people that were on that committee were absolutely in favor of closing the school when they first started, but then after hearing what the numbers were coming in and as they were like, "Oh, wait a minute. We need to hold on this a little bit." So, applaud the members of the committee. And and I want to give a compliment to the board because I've worked in six different

130districts in two different states and most boards when they have a thing like this, they'd just take the recommendation from the administration and they'd say, "Okay, this is what we're doing." They don't involve anybody from the community. They don't do surveys. They don't do committees. They just make the decisions because they hear a lot of heat that you were elected and you should make the decision for us, but that also gives them an out to say, "Well, when you make a bad decision, they'll come after you." You've tried to involve as many members of this community at all different levels, whether they work here, they live here, or they have children that attend here at every single level. Uh that that's a lot of nights out for all of you beyond the board meetings. It's

131a lot of nights out for those parents that volunteer for those things. So, when the folks are out there criticizing those then okay, some people that volunteered didn't get picked. You've done a wonderful job, I believe, in trying to spread the wealth that it's not the same people at every one of the committee meetings that you're hearing from other other families. Sometimes first first person in the family first child to come into school. They could be a pre-K child, a kindergarten child. You know, there are other families that they're no longer in the community. We were involved residents in the in the process as well, people that pay taxes and no longer have children in this. So, you should be commended for that, not criticized for that. And let's You're going to get criticized no

132matter what we do in some capacity. That's the nature of the beast. Um but that is not something that we know You've been very attentive to before there was a listening session. You were listening. Uh and you did a really good job listening to what those folks recommended. Um and that's hard to do because at the end of the day, ultimately, you have to make a decision. And one of the things you're going to have to make a decision about in a few minutes is about what you're doing with this budget. So, um you know, that's that's a hard task to be involved with. >> Thank you. I did have one other question that we got, which was a good one, and this is just a redirection thing. So, some people are saying um this

133is a little too light for me. I want a deeper dive. Where can they find the the line item budget? >> Absolutely. So, uh Where is it here? So, this entire budget book is online. It By the way, um heard a few times in several conversations last night and other places that no one knows where this this is. It's been online every year since we've had a website. So, you can look at the entire line item budget. The same copies of this book are in every one of our schools as well. So, it's every single piece is in there. Anyone can go online tonight. It's on the district web Go on to the budget uh the board section of the uh website, drop down, you'll see budget, all the items are in the the column

134and center in the page. So, you can see the entire line by line, code by code. And yes, >> the yes, some will go up, some will go down. That's what a good business official does in a district is that when you see costs going up in some areas, you adjust, not keep things Oh, we're just going to keep the same amount there because it you know, we're just going to move things around every year. You you have to adjust as you go along. Some items will go higher, some items will go lower. As Dr. Dobrosky pointed out with the number of people that are retiring in the next 10 years, you're going to see staffing uh reductions and and cost savings based upon those numbers that he provided as well. Uh we have 370

135of the current total 530 teaching staff with that includes all the other special areas and things that are going to be eligible to retire in the next 10 years. Um so, that's going to be major cost savings. And to the you know, Stanley and and Sherry, the point of that looking back at that start time piece, that's where a lot of those factors and and maybe that's also the opportunity to add some of these other programs that we've been talking about for years to have Maybe we have STEAM back in all elementary schools and all grade levels at some point. Um maybe there's some other thing things we can think of, but um but the most important thing is that we we will have that uh budget information is out there. We've also done presentation

136after presentation. Jeff and I spent more time together than we spent with our spouses in the past month and a half before the budget. Uh this year we even did Jefferson Ferry. Had a very positive response there. They told us that they they told everyone there they were voting for the budget and they were coming out. So, um that was their their call. We we don't try to influence anyone's decision in that process. So, we we've expanded out. But, I will tell you that even in some of the meetings that we went to in some of the schools, we had four people show up. We did 11 presentations. And Jefferson Ferry actually had the largest turnout. There was over 50 people in the room. So, they beat everybody at that point. So, they get the

137pizza party now. So, there there was a lot of folks there. So, that helped a lot with us. And I think we will continue to do that. Every year we reach out to all different organizations in the community, the civics association, the chamber. Some come in, some do not. Three Village Dads, Three Village Dads reps come in time to time and talk to us. All different organizations. Um we continue to offer that olive branch out there to see anyone that wants to come to us. We do the presentation at the civics association. Even when we did the bond presentation, I felt like spanking the little rascals with people throwing stuff at us because the the property sale that went up, the wrong sign by the real estate broker that time. We still went there. And

138we still heard what people's opinions were. But, we're you know I don't think it's a lack of communication. Um one thing we are going to try to expand into next year, God help me, is we're going to try doing podcasts and getting information out that way that way to people. So, hopefully we're trying to tap every means necessary to to communicate with people in the community. But, that's where they can find that information. That was a little bit longer an answer than you were looking for, I know. So, >> It's a good answer. It was a good answer. All right, we're going to wrap the discussion. So, any other thoughts, questions, now is the time. >> I just wanted to go through some of the lists of the things that we got from >> Sure.

139>> the listening party last night or whatever you want to call it. >> [laughter] >> Listening party. And some of the emails that we got. So, we summarized a lot of them. And And some of the biggest topics were class size. And I think with Jeff's, um, uh, presentation, he showed we're underneath contractual limits. I think our class size is a pretty good right now. We're not looking to increase anything during this budget as of this moment. >> No No class >> Class sizes are increasing next year in the elementary level. >> Well, from what we had on the sheet. >> Yeah No from this, not from what we initially that they were going up no matter what even with the first budget. >> Right, but what we have on the sheet tonight. >> No

140nothing from beyond what we already proposed. >> Right. So, what we have right on the sheet right now is still underneath contractual. Right. >> Um, the next was, uh, clarity in communications. Dr. Scanlon touched on that a bit. Um, over the last year, I think our communication and clarity on issues it increased tenfold. Um, with the addition of Denise Nash aiding in our social media, um, pushing more information out. Um, I I think it was fantastic. We're adding We added in the the S3 Village, which we have been getting some emails sent to. We started our Facebook account. Um, we're going to be doing podcasts. So, we have been doing a lot to reach more people. Obviously, from all the information we have, we still need to work on that and increase that. But, we

141have been doing much better than we have before. So, anybody that has any suggestions on how we can reach community or the younger parents, we're more than willing to listen. So, please send us an email and, you know, we'll be working on that continually. Um, we had a couple asking to fund more special education, >> [laughter] >> which I think the district does a great job at already. So, we're really good there. We had quite a few on start times, which we talked about. Um, and then the rest were just a few. There was a some about holidays, parking at the, uh, high school, um, the budget vote, armed guards, um, grants, which we talked [snorts] about it with We really don't get our grants cuz we're a high net worth uh, high net worth

142district. And staffing and enrollment we went over, lower taxes. We would all love to lower our taxes a lot, so I guess we'll talk about that number next. Um Meals, we had some people ask why we're paying for meals for all of our students. Um that is a New York State um decision, not ours, so that does not affect our budget at all. >> Check check check check check. Excuse me, we don't pay for the meals. >> Right, we don't pay for the meals. >> pays for them. >> Right, New York State. Um communicating with other parents, uh and then we had a couple asking why non-citizens can vote, and that's not a district they they can't. >> Right. They would like to vote, but they >> Exactly, so they cannot, and that's not a

143district decision. That is >> I said whether they were voting yes or no, then they could vote, but that wouldn't actually wouldn't be something I could control either, and so >> And then IJ, which we talked about. >> Correct. >> Okay, anybody else? All right, so I apologize, there's a little omission on the agenda. So at this point in time, if it works for everybody, we will pause for public comment, then we'll come back, we'll circle back on how much the capital line is going to be. You'll crunch the final numbers for us, and we'll call a vote. Sound reasonable? Okay, so do we see any public comment? >> No public comments, and they're usually not on a special meeting. >> Okay. >> Thank you. All right, so um the issue really about capital is

144do we take the suggested reduction to 1.250, or do we raise back up to 3 million? I say 3 million. Do we have a show of hands who want to go up back up to 3 million? Okay, and uh the two of you would prefer to stay at the 1.25. Okay. >> No, 1.75. >> Sorry, 1.75, my apologies. Uh okay, so that being said, if we're going back up to the 3 million, the new percentage increase, new tax increases would be >> Um well, are [clears throat] we adding Was there also uh there was talk about uh community swim and adult ed. Um >> I I think >> in or do you want to >> I think we wanted to raise the rates on those, correct? And I I personally would say >> Raise the

145rates right, but but ed not reduce not take those out. That's that's really >> Thoughts on that? >> Keep keep them in place. >> Well, I think we need to talk about I think we need to talk about what we want our bottom line to be, right? Before we go through that. So, we want to keep our $3 million in and we want to keep our bottom line that the community is paying at about what number. And then we can worry about what's going in or not. If we kept everything that was on Jeff's list as is, I think we're at 3.88 including the $3 million. >> That's correct. >> Right. So, if we're getting rid of some of these things on the proposed list, we could do it a different time. So, right now

146we're at 3.88 3.88 which is what's in the proposal. >> Correct. >> Right. >> The reason I bring up community swim and adult ed is if you want to keep those programs, we would We added it on the budget side, but we add some on the revenue side to to make it make it up. It doesn't change the tax levy, but it would change the budget a little a little bit. >> tax levy be on that? >> It doesn't change that tax levy from with the capital at $3 million, the new tax levy would be 3.88%. >> 3.88 >> Right. >> I mean, my feeling if if we go up to the $3 million and that causes the pool to be repaired, I would restore community swim. Um >> Yes. >> Uh 100%, but I

147would prefer actually and I don't even know how this could be done and I'm probably going to get a dirty look in a second. I would prefer for us to at least go down one point to 3.5 percent overall paying, which is $300,000 less than what you have here. So >> So I think that the community swim though brings in revenue, right? So if we remove this $50,000, we're also removing that like if we add the $50,000 to the budget, we get that revenue back. >> the the the 50,000 is the the net cost to the district. That's not the total cost of the program. There's revenue that offsets it. There's always it doesn't quite offset. So if we're going to if we're going to keep the community swim program in place, but just raise

148the rates a little bit to cover the rest of that 50,000, it doesn't change the tax levy amount. I would need to add a little bit back into the budget, but um but it doesn't change because we'd be increasing the budget some by the 50,000, but also increasing the revenue by 50,000. So it doesn't change the tax levy. I would just need to know so we work it into the budget numbers. >> So we're clear, if you're going if you've just voted that you're putting the three going back up to the $3 million and you're going to repair the pool, the repair to the pool will not be completed most likely until next summer. >> Right. The repair right. >> is not going to happen immediately. >> Right. We we wouldn't we weren't saying, well,

149the community swim is out. The repair is not needed to the pool immediately to continue community swim. That's not the point we were making. The point we were making was, well, if we're taking the if we're reducing capital and we're not doing the work on the pool, we don't know when the work is going to be done on the pool. So to minimize the wear and tear on the pool, that was the reason for that. But if we're going back to $3 million in capital, then then we know the repairs to the pool will be done by by next summer. So, we're not uh quite as worried about the the wear and tear on the pool this year uh by having community swim because we know those repairs are coming. >> And I just want

150there to be clarity on this, too, with the board. And I know you just voted to put that back where it was. But I thought several And again, remember it was total of 28 uh people coming last night and the 25 emails that we received. Um a pretty consistent uh theme was taxes are too high. And you you just voted to raise raise the what our proposal was by 0.7% higher than what our original proposal was by doing this. So, I'm So, just be cautious because you're going to probably get some negative feedback uh from people saying, "Wait a minute, the the district administration recommended 3.18, and you just went up to 3.88." Um so, that the they're going to look at you as the board saying, "Did you hear what we were saying about

151our taxes being too high?" And and and lowering the in- the >> Right. I I agree. I mean, I think keeping the capital budget is very important, right? We or discussed that for over a year. I we need that we need that money. And if we keep lessening the amount, it's going to screw us over in the end. Um but the total budget needs to be lower cuz you're right, people complained that it was too much money. Well, almost all the people who came out for no said it was just too much money. So, I Personally, I would be comfortable lowering it 1%, which would be 3.5, which is a little bit more than what you initially said, but less than what we talked about. So, I don't know. >> And can you do that

152by, for example, on your list removing that five to know the keeping the 500,000 in and the 100,000? And if you take $600,000, I mean, that should lower it a little, correct? >> Well, that lowers it from the 4.54 down to the 3.88. >> Okay. >> So, if we wanted to go down below 3.5%, it would be about another $680,000. >> I think voters are most sensitive to the percentage because that's directly related with the property tax they would pay. And if we increase from 3.18% proposed by the admin up by any amount, that may give us a chance of losing the budget again. So, that's why I prefer going with what the admin proposed here. >> So, the crossroads is we were revisiting this. So, some voices saying try to keep that overall number

153lower. Um Karen is saying let's still try to keep the capital line at 3 million, but find other reductions. Um Other thoughts? >> Yes. Um we have to keep the budget as sensible and sane as we can, but we also have to maintain everything to maintain our district for our students. And we have to be able to maintain the district for our students with money. Unfortunately, that's the only way that we're going to be able to maintain what we have and continue it and maybe even raise it. So, I I'm very much in favor of the the second proposal that that was brought up with the 3.8. Was it Jeff? 3.8 that we're talking >> 3.88. >> Yeah. That. That's all. >> Mr. Carlson, what would it look like if we split the difference somewhere

154in the middle and put capital let's say 2.5? >> 2.5? [clears throat] Uh let's see. >> And so just a point with that that proposal as Jeff was just saying the the difference the 1.25 was the pool repairs. It would mean that you'd only do >> you're doing partial repair to what's around the pool. So it will work with our engineers and architects to determine what that would look like, what is the most needed aspects of that, particularly from a safety standpoint. Um but it's not going to do all the repairs of the pool. >> Understood. >> Or right, or we would say, well because it depends on how how the projects come out, too. It might be Well, maybe instead of doing, for example, Minnesauke cupola we do the other two cupolas plus the

155pool. >> Right, you switch it around that way. >> Uh so but but to answer your question, if we reduce capital to 2 and 1/2 million, that low with the other stuff, it lowers the tax levy increase to 3.6%. Did I say two and two and 1/2 million capital? >> Sorry, 3.6 >> 3.6%. Yeah, that's lowering capital to two two and 1/2 million. for >> With all the other reductions. >> Yeah. >> Two and 1/2 million. >> Thoughts on that? >> Or is this more of a >> Is this more of an all or nothing thing? >> It's hard. >> It is hard. >> It's hard. >> It is hard. >> We're getting It's very difficult >> Oh, sure. >> It's very difficult to get to a number when we don't know exactly what we're

156going to be cutting in each way. I mean, if I'm looking at this list and if you're saying you need a little extra, we haven't even discussed what that extra could be. If we wanted to bring it down even more. >> Oh, if you wanted to bring it down more. >> Yes. Right. >> Yeah. I mean, this >> things on there that, you know, there were things that aren't on here that we the parents, you know, community was discussing, but, you know, we're not going to go there right now because right now what we have to do is get to a budget. >> Again, remember you're voting on the number, not the the particular with the exception of capital, you're voting on the number. The rest of this the difference to be made up, even

157next week during the hearing, you can maneuver back and forth. >> Right. We're just stuck on the capital. >> And if you were to say, for example, capital at 2 and 1/2 million, right? That brings us down to 3.6%. If you were to say, get it down below, let's say, for example, 3.5%. Well, we could do that. We might have to come back to you next at next Wednesday's meeting and say, here's our plan as to how we do that, and then you can either okay that or not okay that. You You You don't have to decide that even then. I mean, that that's if if that's the goal, I mean, we will will figure it out what what we would need to do, and then there would be more discussion with the board exactly

158how to do that. But, because it's such a tight time frame between, you know, for the for the revote, um the we'd need to to decide on what the amount is going to be. Then how we get that last piece of it >> I think to get to that 3.5 is important. And perhaps you can go back and decide on how you would get back to that 3.5. I mean, I don't know if I'm by myself on this or what, but I mean just vote. I mean, I I think 3.5 is high, but it's fair for what we had. So, I wouldn't want to go higher than 3.5 right now. >> The question is will the community vote for a 3.5? That's the larger question. >> Yeah, I mean, honestly, I think the community would

159probably like it as low as possible, but there's only so much we can cut without affecting class sizes like we just talked about and programs. And nobody wants to cut programs or class sizes. So, you know, there's there's only so much that we can you know, fiddle with to get it as low as possible. Um, I >> Right. >> I still think 3.5 is high, yes, but I can't imagine it getting any lower unless we cut a program or class sizes, which I personally don't want to do. >> Right now, with the way the class sizes are looking, we we would be in contractual violations in multiple areas. Right there, I think that's we had Um, some of the breaks are so poor um, based upon what the class numbers look like as of today,

160the class sizes look as of today, that if we if we had another handful of students come in in a particular grade in a particular school, that would basically force us to hire another teacher to to cover the split because we'd be over the contractual limit. >> Right, so that's basically off the table. So, >> Right. >> Is there any appetite to see what 2 million in capital looks like? >> Do I hear two million? >> I'm on like Antiques Roadshow. I do, like >> Two papaya, two papaya, does anyone want two papaya? >> [laughter] >> Well, I don't think you're going to get much done with another $250,000. So, I mean, it would just I I I don't know. I I think, you know, everybody's asking us to look into the future and to

161be fiscally responsible and uh you know, stop voting for what's today and and we need to look ahead. So, looking ahead is that we need to up our capital budget. I mean, that's bottom line. I mean, if our budget didn't fail 6 years ago, we would have had a lot of money to complete a lot of these um issues that came up that we wanted to use the bond for, but it did and it went to zero. So, now we're trying to build it up. Last year we put it down cuz we listened to the committee um and probably knowing more, probably we should have left it the way that it was, but you know, this year, I mean, everybody said that was out there who's voted no for the bond all over Facebook is

162we want it in the budget. We don't want to pay interest, we want it in the budget. And to put it in the budget is going to increase the budget. So, I I I I really don't know what more can be done because I I don't know. >> So, if we could to go back to I think Sue's question, so if we had capital at two and a half million, and then we cut I don't know what, but another 200,000. That would make the tax levy increase 3.49%. We would have to come back to you next week and say, "Here's how we would propose cutting that other 200,000." >> So, one thing I was I think the the danger, you know, we want the budget to pass. We need to be listening to what the

163community is saying. A lot of them were not talking about, you know, we need to reduce capital spending. I've heard discussions about either administration or central administration, not classroom teachers. Is there You know, it may be one of these options that you can come back to us, if that's possible at all. >> I'm I'm going to just say unequivocally right now, absolutely not. We've cut the administration 21%. We will not be able to operate the district or the buildings with cutting any more. And I've heard everything from there's too many APs, there's too many of this, there's too many of that. You We're cutting positions and moving responsibilities to the APs, and then we're telling them now we're going to cut them. Well, who's doing those jobs? So, I mean, we won't be able to

164operate the district. The district this size with only 40 administrators running it, plus the four central office administrators that are here, is unfounded. There are districts that are, you know, half our size with more administrators. So, I'm From my recommendation, that would that that's not a recommendation I would make. That's what you would do forward to decide if you want to push it forward, um but I I think that would that would cause us a lot more uh pain than we already have. You've already cut uh nine administrators just going into the next year already. Um and they that unit has by far had the most. And by the way, they did a zero in their contract this year to help us get in through this budget for this year. Not to mention that the

165teachers took a zero this year and are taking a 1% next year as well. So, when we talk about oh, we need to negotiate things and what one of the comments was no no salary increases to anyone. Uh that's not how negotiation processes work with the unions. I'm sorry and then that's that's not only us. Uh you know, it's it's a little hard to sit here and hear about, you know, people saying oh, this group makes too much money, that group makes money money money money, I make too much money. I don't really care. Uh but when you look at the paper and you look at executives and and electric companies and gas companies making $800,000, uh you know, maybe we should be talking about that more than talking about our school district. So, that's

166only my soapbox. I'm sorry. >> Do not apologize. All right. So, circling back with your proposal, um the tax levy increase would have been 3.18. With this, if you had it at 2.5 in capital, um that brings it down to 3.49. What is the >> With another 200,000 with another >> With another 200,000, Kyle. What is the percentage increase year to year if you did that? From from the budget in budget increase from last year to this year if we did that. >> Uh >> Hold on. Jeff didn't know there was going to be a test today. >> I'm so sorry. >> [laughter] >> No, I was I was doing the tax levy. Um >> You think he's got a calculator on his phone? Well, that's telling me you didn't get any computer background. You

167can handle this. What? >> 3.49, that's the tax levy increase. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> The budget to budget increase would be 2.2%. >> It's yeah. I Unfortunately, a lot of this is optics and we've spoken about that, right? I think people were shocked when there was a four, people like when there's a two or a smaller than two anywhere on there. So, if your top box has a two, your bottom box still has a three. I don't know, maybe that's the compromise iteration here and we're thoughts? >> Yeah, I'm comfortable with that. >> Okay, so So, what I'm hearing is a 3.49% 2.2 from budget to budget, right, Jeff? >> Say that again. >> 2.2 from budget to budget. >> Correct. >> 3.49% uh which means the capital budget goes to $2.5 million. Correct.

168And we need you want us to look at cutting another $200,000 in something. >> In something. That's That's the thought that's out on the table right now. Not, you know, I'd love to hear from everyone else what you think about that. It's that. It's what we originally proposed back up to three or we go with the administration's recommendation at um at 1.75. 1 Yeah. >> Three what? >> You're still at three? >> I'm still at three. Three what? >> Keeping capital three million. >> Oh. >> 3.49 So, if we go to 2.5 in capital, that's a tax levy increase of uh 3.6, correct? 3.49, sorry. >> 3.49 and a budget over budget 2.2% increase. >> Correct. >> Right. That's with capital at 2.5 million and we still need to come up with $200,000 more in

169something. >> Um All right. Uh [snorts] is it a one-for-one dollar, Jeff? So, if we if we kept capital at 3 million instead of 2.5, in order to hit that same number would be effectively have to reduce $500,000 from the budget? >> Well, plus the other 200,000. Yeah, so 700,000. Instead of 200 other, it would be 700 other. >> Oh, right. Uh so, it would be that it was 200 it was reducing capital by 500,000 and cutting something else by 200,000. So, if we kept capital at 3 million, that would mean cutting something else by 700,000. >> And just for comparison, if we're back on that page uh the budget to budget in the original budget vote that went down, that's a lot of budgets, was 2.87 versus 2.2 here and 4.54 versus 3.6. Right?

1703.49, sorry. All right, so we have one person who is in favor of keeping it at keeping capital at 3 million. Um do we see anyone else who's interested in this plan of keeping capital up at 3 million? Okay. So, we'll roll backwards then. Uh keeping capital at 2.5 million I would be in favor of that. That's 1 2 3 4. Okay, and then keeping the administration's recommendation is the two of you. Okay. So, there's our consensus. Um, so you will get back to us at the next meeting. We have our number, we know our capital number, we know our number number, and you're going to let us know what your recommendations are for the additional 200,000 in cuts. >> Okay. >> 3rd. >> when we do >> Okay, so we'll take a full motion

171for a good >> So, what you're saying is we're going to keep the capital at 2. Oh, we're going to increase capital back up to 2.5. >> 2.5. >> But, we are suggesting that the tax levy increase from last year be kept to under 3.5. >> Yes. >> It is, yeah, 3.49. >> Which means we have to we have to go back to the drawing board and find another 200,000 else in cuts. >> The budget over budget is 2.2. Okay, so let's just formalize that. Do I see a motion to approve this recommendation for the capital line at 2. >> Can I be before that? >> Sorry, go ahead. >> Can No, can I So, so the the dollar amount of the budget would be 243 million 390,000 and $92, which includes capital of 2

172and 1/2 million. >> Can you say that again? >> 243 million 390,000 and 92. That's capital of 2 and 1/2 million. And a tax levy of 185 million 217,000 which is an increase of 3. 49%. >> Okay, so any last questions? Otherwise, I will throw this up into a formal motion. Okay. Do we see a to approve that as just mentioned a budget of 243 million 390.92? Capital line will be 2.5 million. Tax levy is 185 217 549 and the increase is 3.49% to the tax levy. Do I see a motion? Okay, a second. All in favor. Those opposed. Okay. All right. Uh so that carries. We have our numbers. I appreciate everybody's hard work on that and um we look forward to continuing the conversation some more next week about the specifics. That being

173said, do I see a motion to adjourn? >> So moved. >> A second. >> Second. >> All in favor. All right, we are adjourned. Thank you. >> Great job. >> Thank you. You too. Sorry I threw a lot of crazy at y'all. >> It's okay. What is sports? >> You're really good.