Board of Education Workshop 11/19/25

001Good evening and welcome to our Wednesday, November 19th, 2025 board of education workshop meeting. At this time, I would ask you to please rise as Dr. Scandlin leads us in the pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, >> indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you so much, Mr. Mano. Any changes to the meeting agenda? >> No changes. >> Thank you so much. So, we will begin um with our preliminary discussions of the 2026 27 budget. Mr. Carlson, Okay, thank you. So, um we're starting a little early on, uh budget uh discussion this year. Um it's not going to be an easy year. Not that any year is, but um this is certainly not going

002to be an easy one. So, um I just want to go over with um with everyone that bit of a timeline. So October, November, we the first piece of information that we get for the uh next year's budget is the uh employer contribution rate for both retirement systems. So we've gotten those uh the employees retirement system rate is going up, teachers retirement system rate is going down. So they kind of wash out. So that's kind of good news, right? Instead of them both going up. So that's that's fine. Uh so now November begin budget discussion at BOA workshop and here we are that's tonight. Uh then uh as we've started uh working on uh staffing and programmatic needs for next year and of course we always base it on uh what we have in place

003right now and then you know if if there are things uh we we think we uh need to add or you know we'll see how they fit into the budget. So we we've started working on that. Uh in December, our health will know our health insurance rates for next year. Um we know they'll go up. I don't know how much yet. Um I'm thinking probably in the 10% range. Uh we'll see what uh nice ship comes in at. Uh but uh ours will be set on December I think it's December 11th is the meeting when when ours will be set. So that'll be a a key number for our budget also. Uh and then in January uh sometime in mid January the governor will release her budget proposal for next year which gives sets kind

004of sets the tone for where uh we we think we'll be with with state aid for next year. Um like in previous years we we're not going to hold our breath and think we're going to get a huge increase. Uh the state did give out some enormous increases if we remember a couple of years ago, but the money was steered towards uh school districts and in less wealthy areas. Um uh good for them. Uh but that didn't help us. March 1st, we had to submit our tax levy limit is what they call it. Uh our tax cap number to the comprollers's office. Uh and then we'll be h we'll be having budget discussions along the way, but the official budget workshops on March 11th, 25th, and April 15th, and on April 15th is when the

005board is uh scheduled to adopt the budget. We'll have the budget hearing on May 6th, and the budget vote is May 19th, coincidentally, 6 months from today. So, uh so the tax cap, all right, so you know, we've talked about this before, several factors. Uh it's not just one number. Uh however the most significant number or piece of variable in there is the lever growth factor and that is what can be 2% or the rate of inflation whichever is less and the rate of inflation as um uh measured by the change in the consumer price index. This is not a number I come up with. The number is determined by the uh New York State comprollers office and is the same for every school district in the state. So it can be lower than 2%

006but cannot be higher than 2%. Uh uh so what has the impact? So we're in year 14 of the tax cap. So what has the impact of the of the cap been? Well uh in our case for the last 10 years our budget has increased by uh an average of 2.3%. So that's pretty low. It's it's not easy to uh continue uh keeping our program going uh with with that much of an increase each year. Uh and our tax levy increases averaged 2.2% over the past 10 years. So um from a a taxpayer percent uh uh perspective, uh it's been great. Um from uh a a school district uh perspective, it's it's difficult to keep the same program running year after year. Uh with that uh I threw this in there just in case anybody's

007interested. And this is the official determination how of how the tax cap is calculated. This came from the uh comprollers's office in case anybody's interested. So when we hear 2% tax cap, right? So it's not really 2% as we know. It could be higher, it could be lower um uh because of several other factors, not just that uh levy growth factor. uh and it varies yeartoear and district to district. So I was curious, what if instead of saying well the rate of inflation or 2% whatever is less what if it was just that it's still a cap but what if it was well whatever the inflation rate is as determined by the controller that's what our tax cap would be what what would that have looked like now it's a moot point because it's not

008what it was done but I was just curious so for the first 10 years of the tax cap so um you could see the first right off the bat first year CPI was 3.16%. So but because of the cap we were only that piece was only allowed to be 2%. So where our actual levy was 132.5 million if we had been able to use the $3.16% instead of 2% it would have been 134 million a difference of almost $1.5 million. Now the second year was just a bit over 2% the CPI. So there was a little bit more of an increase. Now that that first million483 in year 1 now that compounds for year two and then the because that year CPI was still again a little over 2%. It increased a little bit but

009then the next four years we see the CPI was less than 2%. So the only uh reason this number over on the right hand column the difference increases is just those numbers compounding year after year. Then we had two years in a row 201819 and 201920 where the inflation rate was above 2%. So again this the number the difference number between what our actual tax levy was and what the levy would have been had we been able to u raise it if the cap were whatever inflation was. uh jumps up a little bit again. And then the last two years on this page, uh you see the actual levy is the same for those two years. The second year, 2122, that's the year our budget failed. That's why the actual levy is the same as

010the 2021 year. And so for this, what I did is I didn't say, well, if this if if the levy were at the inflation rate, the budget would not have fa I didn't do that. So I'm assuming it would have failed again. And so that's why the tax levy on the on the if we're at CPI was the same for both of those years, too. So when you add all those 10 years up, it comes out to a little under $20 million. So it averages less than $2 million a year. So okay, on a over $200 million budget, that $2 million a year, especially at a time when there was decline in enrollment, it wasn't we were able to to make that work. However, the next four years um now starting with 2223 look at

011the CPI those four years uh 4.7% 8% 4.12% and 2.95%. Now the the levy if we had been able to if the cap was the CP the inflation rate instead of maxed at capped at 2%. Look how much more our tax levy would have been. Right? So this year alone over $24 million different. So the last four years it's almost 72 million and then you add the first 10 years. So it's a lot of money. So So what does this show? Well, on the one hand as taxpayers we can all say, well that's great. Um but also our costs are increasing a lot. Now not all of our costs grow at the same rate of inflation. our contractual increases are much less than the inflation rate. Uh they have to be um but a lot

012of our costs are closer to what the inflation rate is. So every year it's making it more difficult to balance our budget with keeping the same uh program uh program in place uh because costs are going up so much faster than what we're able to raise in taxes. So when the state, whether it be the governor, state legislature, state head department, uh, comprollers's office, they say, "Well, the wealthier districts, you don't need more state aid because you're so much more wealthy." Well, that's fine to say, but we don't have access to that wealth because of the tax cap. So um so when we get into state aid now 0910 our state aid and I subtract out building aid and we've talked about this at budget time before building aid is tied directly to capital projects

013and debt service. So if you're comparing state aid from year year to year or you know years apart uh building aid should be subtracted. This is the way the state head department does it this way the state legislature does it. So it gives you a better comparison of state aid from from different years. So our state aid in 0910 uh was uh just under 32 million which represented uh almost 19.6% of our total revenue. This year our state aid now 16 years later has gone up to 37.5 million not counting building aid uh which is now 15.75% of our revenue. Uh so that that increase is only uh over that period of time that 16 years state aid has increased about 1% a year which comes out to about $344,000. But that 1% that's on

014the state aid amount as far as percent of our budget. It's about 17th of a percent of our budget. State aid has been increasing. Now you know this is this next one. This is along the lines of the if CPI uh if the tax cap were at CPI. It's you know if is a big word and it didn't happen but just out of curiosity if we were still getting back in 200910 we were getting 19 point almost 19.6% of our revenue in state aid. If we were getting that percentage this year as our uh total revenue that would be an additional over 9 mill $9 million more in state aid. So, we're not getting it. But, and just to show that that uh 19.6% in 0910 was not some sort of anomaly and it's normally

015not that high. Just as recently as I know it's not recent, but 2002 we were getting 31% of our revenue uh from state aid. So, it's really state aid has not kept up with the inflation rate. Our tax levy can't keep up with the inflation rate. Uh so what's the difference? Well, the only other real source of revenue we could have is we could depend on our fund balance. All right? So if we have state aid bringing in so much, tax levy bringing in so much, if we want to spend more than that, it has to come from from fund balance. But that's that's a a limited resource and eventually it would just run out. So, in June of 2019, before CO, our total fund balance, uh, $24.9 million, uh, the average of Long Island

016school districts, and this was just a straight average, uh, was 20.5 million. So, we're about 21% higher than the average uh, school district on Long Island as far as total fund balance. So, what happened during COVID during that that first year was that it was the 1920 year, remember? uh Friday, March 13th was the last day of school before uh the governor closed all schools for the remainder of the year. And then the 2021 uh school years when most school dis most school districts were um uh kids only attended school a couple of days a week. So, uh, school districts all across the whole country, not just New York State, uh, started spending a lot less money, uh, because they weren't providing as much transportation. Kids weren't in school much. There's a number of reasons.

017Uh, they they they reduced spending a lot, uh, just because they weren't providing as much service. We did the opposes either, so they were still collecting all their money. We did the opposite. We spent extra to keep schools open that year. All of every one of our students, if they chose, attended school five days a week that year. It was something our community uh asked for. Uh something we did. It cost a lot of money. Uh but we did that. And I believe Dr. Scandal and you would say we're still seeing the the positive results from that compared to other districts with the with the loss of learning that took place that year, but it cost a lot of money. So, what did that do to our fund balance? Well, by June of 21, our

018fund balance had decreased to $18.5 million. And because the rest of Long Island um spent so much less during CO, um all other school districts on Long Island combined, their fund balance and reserves increased by $522 million during that period of time, which uh made the average Long Island school district fund balance $24.9 million, coincidentally, what ours was two years prior. Uh but that at that point was then 35% higher than what ours was cuz where everyone else's fund balance increased during that time, ours decreased. So it just it puts us in a in a worse position as far as having to deal with um the tax cap uh not uh state aid not increasing very much but cost really increasing a lot. And as of this past June, our fund balance is now down

019to $10.1 million. So, okay. Well, that brings us into let's talk about the budget for next year. So, based on what we have in place right now, that's you know, the world start looking at it. And so, what the staffing we have in place right now, that's not to say we would have to have the same staff next year, but what we have in place right now, uh, contractual salaries would have an increase of 5.7 million. I'm estimating health insurance at about 3.2 million. I don't know yet. The rates will be set next month. Other benefits, ERS and TRS, that's a retirement systems. They can wash uh but I just listed them so you don't you know they're in there. Uh FICA is our the our portion of Social Security. Oh, WC I should work.

020That's work as compensation. Uh Medicare. So Medicare is for retirees that are on Medicare. So the reason so what we do is we reimburse the Medicare premium from their social security. Now why do we do that? Well because we pay but Medicare is their if they're if they're on our health insurance as a retiree because once uh one of our retirees who's who's covered by our health insurance uh starts uh is on Medicare, Medicare becomes primary coverage. So the rate we pay for their health insurance drops pretty much in half. So we save a lot of money that way. And then they the return on that is we reimburse that Medicare premium that's been in place and we all school districts do it and it's been in place for for I don't know how many

021decades long long time. Uh but Medicare premiums if you follow that kind of thing in the news are going up by about 10% next year. Uh so that's going to be cost to us. the separation pay, that's retirement incentive and that kind of thing. And we've we've talked about that uh a number of times that we have to start preparing for when we get um a lot of retirements, which we know will be coming sometime soon. We don't know exactly when, but we want to be prepared so that when when we do have uh a large number of teachers retire, uh when they get paid out for whether it be retirement incentive or or whatever, whatever. um they don't get vacation days, but uh when they get retirement incentive, um we have enough money in

022the budget to cover it as opposed to having to take money out of reserves to pay for something like that. So, we need to build that code up. Uh so, that that gives us a double benefit by doing that. What it does in the meantime, if we have more in that budget code than we need to spend in a given year, that's great. That's where we'll start replenishing our fund balance from. But, we need to start building that up. We we started this past year, but we need to continue that unemployment insurance. So, anytime we um excess employees, they're eligible for unemployment. Uh and New York State almost doubled the uh maximum uh unemployment, weekly unemployment uh this past year, all in one fell swoop. Um hadn't gone up in in many years and all

023of a sudden it almost doubled. Uh and then we have other things too. uh the board had already uh had had committed to want to do the start time the start schools later initiative. Um that's something that's one of our one of our priorities we would really like to get off the ground. Uh but as we discussed many times that's a lot of money. So we would like to do that. Uh property and liability insurance is going up. Utilities cost more. Uh our Bosey's costs go up more. Our annual transportation costs more. And this doesn't even get into if we need to add any, for instance, ENL staffing or mental health staffing or or any of any of that kind of stuff. These are just some of the the major increases we've identified so far.

024So, that brings us to Okay. Well, now we're ready to start talking about the budget. Um, as I said, it's 6 months away, but that'll that'll come quick. and uh so we wanted to we wanted to at least get get started talking about it. So we'll sit down and then of course take any questions. >> Thank you. That was great. Um would we like to go into the staffing numbers first and then discuss or discuss from here? >> Well, you can do the staffing numbers with Dr. >> You want to do the staffing numbers? Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. So um I'm not sure if everybody brought their Friday memo so I I have extra copies just in case. Chris, if you can uh pass this down. Um and really staffing involves a number

025of things. Uh first and foremost, what we have now is um Dr. Scalin talks a lot about the leaves that we have going uh coming through the year. Um last year, if my memory serves, they we had um 40 leaves of absence throughout the entire school year. Um as of November 19th, we're up to 30. So, and this is before we even this is before we even get to 2026. Um, so of the of the 30 leaves that we have right now, you should know eight of them are fullyear leaves, which we which we which the board approves. Um, and those are unpaid leaves, but we we because they're unpaid leaves, the people who uh the teachers who take their place are paid full salary and benefits as a result. Um, of the 30 leaves

026so far, only five have returned to work. Um, so we still have several people out in several different areas. The one challenge that we have um with our staffing when it comes to leave of absence is the more difficult to find positions. So for example uh we had two vacancies for home and careers. Um, we have, um, done a good job posting everywhere. Um, using Miss Nash to help cast the widest net as possible, whether it's the district's Facebook page, whether it's Instagram, um, Olas, we have a we have something called Recruit Front, um, that is on our website that we refer everybody to for vacancies. And we're just not getting the amount of people that we need um, to apply for these jobs. We wouldn't have this problem if it was an elementary school

027teaching position. We get hundreds of applicants. Uh for something like home and careers, we get maybe two. All right. We're looking for um we're looking for Spanish leave right now. Uh we basically have two people that we need to interview. So having said that, we have some challenges when it comes to our leaves of absence. Um, so just kind of keep in mind when we when we look at things like this that that the um it's it's ever evolving. Um, and there's a money component to that, right? We're still paying we're still paying our subs to be here every day and there is a substitute teacher contract um that talks about the number of consecutive days that somebody works and how how the rate of pay increases. Um in addition to that with what I

028with what I sent during the Friday memo talks about the um the number of retirees which um in February I will have uh I will do a presentation to the board where there's a look back over about the last the next 10 years. Um if that look back is accurate over 60% of our staff is going to be first eligible in those next in the next 10 years. That is a tremendous tremendous turnover for us. But let's talk about the more immediate. Um right now, as you can see in front of you, we have um 23 of our of our teachers and administrators are first eligible. Out of 37, that number 37 comes from teachers who passed uh teachers and administrators who passed first eligibility. That dates back to um as early as 2013 and

029goes as late as last year, 2025. So with those numbers um we constantly keep track of this. The importance of this is obviously to make sure that we have the correct staffing. So not only balancing what we have for uh what we do during our staffing meetings in terms of um meeting specific needs whether it be an elective or whether it be just um we need more for example one of the things we were talking about next year is uh perhaps adding an additional business teacher. Again hard to find already been posted. we'll start interviewing for that sooner than later to make sure that we secure um an an appropriate candidate. Um and if you look and if you look on this on this sheet uh besides one administrator which you're aware of um you

030know we have approximately 12 elementary folks 10 secondary folks of the secondary folks um three of them are in uh PPS three of them are in social studies. So there are things that we have to take a look at early and often so that we can we can make sure that our fill rate if you will is 100% and to make sure that we have the appropriate candidates. So um this is this is a little bit of a snapshot in terms of what you're going to get um in February. February I will give you um all the names albeit if albeit I'll block out the names in the in the presentation for the board but um it it is uh it's ever evolving the leaves. We just can't predict. We did, you know, we know,

031we know that staff is turning over and we know that, you know, as as staff turns over, um, people come in and they have their have their own individual family needs and we're going to do our best to kind of get the best and brightest in for these in for these positions. Eight full year leaves is a lot for us. It really is a lot for us. And we're not we're not I don't see this part slowing down because it's just because the staff is going to be uh the new staff that comes in they're you know they're they're coming in they're going to want to start families. They're going to want to they're going to want to do what they have to do. But having said that um a lot of these other leaves

032come from different type of health related concerns whether they be physical health whether it be mental health whether they be um something involved with a family member or themselves. So, this is just kind of a little snapshot of what staffing looks like. We are going to start our staffing meetings. Um, our first staffing meeting, I believe, is the second week in December, uh, where we're going to start to meet with our principles, start to talk about our goals for next year so that we have a kind of methodical plan moving forward on not only what we need to do to replace um, some of these LOAs, but as you know, the uh, teachers contract calls for a February 1st deadline, uh, which I believe this year is January 29th. I believe February 1st is a

033is a weekend. So, um, by the end of January, obviously, we'll have a a much better idea, which is why the presentation in February will be, uh, a perfect jumping off point. >> Thank you so much. So, before we begin discussing, uh, Dr. Scandlin, >> so, uh, as you heard clearly from Mr. Carlson and and Dr. Dusky, this, uh, the situation we're under this year is not ideal. Um, I think in many ways what we tried to propose as a budget was just to get us through this hard time when we were hit with the healthcare insurance uh increase of the $5 million. So, um, we've done a lot of uh hard work with the the board, with the BAC, with with the PAC, looking at the properties that we have and potentially selling um

034some of those or leasing them to to gain some revenue streams. Um, we've also examined the idea of potentially closing or repurposing one of our elementary schools. Well, there are some people in the community that say, you know, we should do that immediately uh because the population is down. Um, that number, just so we're clear, is around $1.5 million in in savings. The repurposing if it's rented to another group, whether it's a Boseies or one of the local schools, uh, could bring in some revenue. But, as you heard from Dr. Dusky, ENL is ever expanding this district. In the past four years, we've had to add an ENL teacher every year. In fact, this year, we added a full-time and then a part-time. And before we even hit October, we had to make both both

035uh full-time teachers. And the business program is ever expanding. Our our students are interested in business. They want to go off their 40% of our students are going off to business programs in college. So, offering them the opportunities to take some of those courses now before spending $200 or $300,000 of their parents' money to explore whether or not they like business courses, what might be ideal. Um, but the big question for us this at this preliminary setting with the budget is what do we want this district to look like in the future? Because right now, um, we are dismantling this district. We're dismantling programs that we've prided ourselves on that have given us the reputation of being second in the county by niche and one of the top school districts in the state, if not

036the country. That what you're seeing with Mr. Carlson expressing the money is just simply not there. And unless we do something drastic, we're going to see more of the programs that we pride ourselves on going away. So, I'm going to throw out some ideas because I've had a lot of conversations with parents as I know board members here at each one of the respective schools have met with PTAs and in the community. Um, I get a lot of phone calls, emails, uh, grabbed in supermarkets too and just discussions on the street. And I also have been in eight right now of the nine buildings. I have one more building tomorrow, NASAG. Um, and these are just some of the topics that have come up at the table from both you as the board and from

037those individuals that we've spoken to. So, what would we like the district to see? I've heard that we would like to see IG return uh for next year for fourth grade. Well, that's one FTE and back in the budget. We've had discussions about start time. I will continue to say that start time at the high school is too early. It's unhealthy. It's it's a concern for our students. uh 705 start time is ridiculous. The the the process that was conducted in 2010, I wasn't here in any capacity, but this is the only district that ever had a start time committee that instead of going later went earlier. Every other district in the state went later except for us, but that's a million-dollar commitment as you saw by Mr. Carlson's presentation. We would love to see

038the steam program back to what it was prior to co. We only have one steam teacher right now who's literally running between five elementary schools every week. That would require four more FTEEs to be returned. Well, something parents don't see, the science lab TAS with the demands for the science um uh changes that have occurred with the regulations and the standards, those science lab TAs allowed our teachers to be able to do the work in the labs and have those labs set up for our students to learn. We're at a loss this year. The teachers are scrambling trying to do a lot of that work themselves. Our computer lab TAs, they handle a lot of the Chromebook issues, issues with technology in the building. They are a tremendous support. So, we're asking a lot of

039our teachers to do more with less supports. Our third grade orchestra program, while partially back in place, was something we pride ourselves on having and many parents that are have children are musically inclined, enjoyed having that component. It gave them a head start. It was a premier program, something other districts look forward look to us as an example of being able to do. As I mentioned, ENL, um, we are going to need another ENL teacher next year, no matter what. And that's a mandate. There's no way we're going to get around that one. We could use two more guidance counselors. The elementary level, while we think that the the guidance department is just there to put kids into college, they're handling case loads of kids coming in for uh mental health issues along with our

040social workers and psychologists. At this point, if we are if we don't do something drastically with partnering with one of the clinicalbased uh hospital systems in the area, uh we're going to quickly become a therapeutic system where we're going to our our social workers, psychologists are actually seeing more kids than is in their case loads just because of all the mental health conditions. Parents are looking to the school um to solve some of the mental health issues that they need to really go to clinic clinical settings. Uh but unfortunately there's not a lot of availability for some of those clinical settings for a lot of families. Um the high school with having the extra grade level and we reduced the support and the administration for uh special education. Um we could really um consider having

041a high school a fourth high school assistant principal just for PPS. The number of 504 meetings and the number of CSSE meetings that are occurring are in the hundreds at this point in time. With that being said, the deans, we have two deans at the high school. There was a time there were four deans uh three deans at the high school years ago. So the two that they're running around trying to take care of all the issues and it's not because we have a lot of discipline issues. It's sometimes it's simple things like attendance. Kids cut class at the secondary level. It happens and just tracking those students down on a daily basis. But then there's the more serious issues with discipline, with bullying, with DAS reports that go on. We've had a lot of

042discussion at this table about armed security and I think if we're going to prepare for whether the board agrees to move forward with arming the guards or not arming the guards, we have a sentiment coming from our elementary level right now by some of the parents by the elimination of the one guard that the buildings are less safe. So maybe we need to rethink that and add back those guards whether we arm them or not. Just having them there as a presence might give a lot more comfort to parents. Same at the secondary level if we're going to do that. Now we So we're proposing between anywhere from 9 to 14 guards being added in that area. We already have a UPK program. It's a half-day program. The state is pushing all districts to start

043a full day program. So if we're going to pull the band-aid off, maybe next year is the idea that we do this. Now, we would get an increase in the aid. It goes from $2,700 uh per student for the half-year program to 5,400. Um but we would lose revenue from the enrichment program that exists. That program would go away. the full day program would take that over. Uh we could talk about developing a sack program for the prek students, but it would have to be separate and distinct from the actual prek program itself. And uh that that prek would necessitate at least at least an additional six teachers and six more aids being added to the system. We talked about some reconfigurations administration and I would we would love to have the conversations with the

044uh administrative unit to discuss what that would look like going forward. I've gotten a lot of phone calls just especially this past week because of winter sports starting and the tryyouts that a lot of parents are angry that there is not enough teams. There was a time in three village where we had the C teams as we used to call them and allowed more students to have an opportunity to participate in sports. We have at this point in time 1,400 of the 1786 students at Ward Mobile High School in some sport that begins in the middle level. So Mr. Affinity has done a remarkable job and we don't in some cases we just don't have enough space with some of the teams to be able to practice. We have teams if you have a child

045on a team any parent who has a child in athletics knows that there's chances are that you're going to be practicing between 5 to 7:00 at night. If we added the teams we may be looking at 8 9:00 at night with some of these things. And we already are talking about students that are are committed to outside sports as well in addition to the team sports here in the schools. So that means adding coaches. We we have a lot of technology is issues in the district. It's difficult for our techs to get into classrooms when there's students and staff members in it. So a a 2pm to 10 pm tech is something we've been talking about for several years here. It will allow us to get a lot of the work done that we need

046to do. Just simple upgrading of wiring. We have some of our technology in the buildings are still outdated and we need to keep on top of that especially as new technologies come along. We need sports shuttles between the schools for in order to get even some of our eighth grade students who are moving up into the sports for the high school. We do have some talented eighth graders um that would be participating in some of the high school sports. Not as many as we had when we had the ninth graders over at the uh the junior high model, but there's still a need there. As Dr. Dusky mentioned, we have a lot of retirements potentially coming in the future. As of today, out of the 530 full-time teaching staff, I believe we have, 370 of

047them are eligible to retire in the next 10 years. So, if we don't start planning for how we're going to mentor those people as they come on board and support them as they move forward, that's going to be a problem. We cut a mentor. I don't know how we're going to continue to mentor them in the the way the program uh that we've designed and has been successful and has retained a lot of our teachers over the course of years to continue on with just one person trying to do that by themsel. We put in a ma a reading uh coach this year. Uh but we've also changed the the math program over and we could really use a math coach for a lot of our teachers. A lot of our elementary teachers are not

048certified in mathematics. They're certified in areas like reading or special education. They're not math experts. We probably can count on one hand how many have math certifications underneath their belt. And that's not to their fault. That's most elementary teachers are generalists. But the if you look at the standards that exist now for math at the elementaryaries, they're demanding more at a higher level at younger age levels for a lot of our students. So, um, we've also discussed even as much as the board was wonderful at adding back, we we cut out the start time last year to add, uh, teaching staff back in, we still have some grade levels in the elementary right now that are are large. Another five FTEEs in teaching, uh, positions for next year would actually help balance that out as

049well. And then we we've talked about for years since the academy was founded. Uh let's let's see now it's 2025. It was 2012. It was 13 14 when we founded. So it's 12 years now. Um having an eighth grade program. Uh we just had the alternative ed meeting here yesterday would probably be something ideally that we would be able to do. Many of our students start taking high school level courses in seventh and eighth grade unlike some other districts. So if student falls behind, they're behind for several years. Then by having an ability to capture some of those kids, it would get them back on their graduation range. At that point, there's probably a whole list of other programs and ideas if we went around and asked individuals in the district that they would see

050as ideally things we would want to do. Um, and that would be wonderful. But this is just to give a board a s the board a sense of if we want to be a premier program and I believe we are our premier program or sustain that that program we we may need to think about what the tax cap is doing and what potentially we may have to do in order to rectify that moving forward. I'm not saying we need to do this every year. This may be just the writing of the ship for one year and then we get ourselves back on track in another year. And hopefully some of those retirements that uh Mr. Carlson and Dr. Roski mentioned will start to come to fruition and help offset some of our costs. Right now,

051these are the things we're talking about that would make that have made our district special and we continue to make our district special and we're lacking in many of them. So, we're talking we're not just talking about academic areas. We're talking about health and safety issues. We're talking about things that aren't necessary. If you were educated 354 years ago, say, "Well, I didn't have that when I was in school." Well, the times are different now. It's a lot different now. and the supports that are needed for many of our students are a lot different now. So, um there's a lot more that we can consider, but these are just some of the ideas we need to throw on the table. This is expensive. This is would all these things that they were put in, it

052would be a massive increase in the and in the above the tax cap. So, the discussions that we're going to have in the next few months, and I applaud the board for having the preliminary budget discussion now about these things, you could talk to constituencies in every section of this community. There's some people that will support some of the things and other people that say you don't need that. You can really do this. And there they're they may be right. And we would love to say that we would love to not have to close a school. There is a lot of sentiments among parents in the community that they like having their neighborhood schools. Listen, when we did the strategic plan uh three and a half years ago, we proposed the Princeton plan, which would

053have saved a lot of money for the district moving forward. Um but there was not a a desire to do that. There was a lot of parents that said they wanted to keep those schools open, but it's hard to do those have those conversations now when one of our elementary schools is at 395 students in it when the building's uh ability to hold students is almost a thousand. So, some hard choices that may need to be made. And as I've said before, I'd rather see us sell North Country or lease North Country before we close an elementary school. So, it we can't have it both ways. We can't sell North Country and close an elementary school at the same time and think it's all going to work out. we we need to have some space

054where the administration up here that helps run the district on a daily basis and keeps all those things going has a place to go so that we can do our jobs. So, it's a lot to consider and it's and this touches on every single area of the community and every single area that we we do are fundamental to us operating the school system. So, that's where we're at. >> Okay. Lot to chew on there. So, uh I will open up the uh discussion. who would like to jump in. Okay, I will. Um, I guess my overarching statement would be I think those are all great. That's very aspirational. Um, I I think the first thing I would want to know is if you look at just sustaining what we have and project what costs to

055the best of your ability, what that number looks like right now and and what's the delta between that and, you know, the full bag of candy here. Um, that would be something I'd be curious to see these broken down as to what they would cost. But I would also say that this would be dramatic. This is a dramatic conversation to talk about piercing the cap, to talk about um implementing new things when all we've been doing uh up till now is, you know, swimming to survive, keep our head above water. Um, not saying it's a good idea or a bad idea, it's just an idea. But I would say if we're going to consider this, in my opinion, you throw every single piece of the puzzle up and everything comes back on the table and

056has to get looked at. And I think is there a willingness to to consider every possible place where we could find dollars and do things differently? >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> Should I put that on record? Yes. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think this list is a great wish list which will probably go into our next subject about long-term planning. Um my only initial concern without really um delving into this because we just got this tonight um is that we also have our bond vote this year, >> right? So if we're expecting our community to support our bond and pierce the cap, that is a lot for our community to do. Um so I think before we even broach uh you know uh piercing the cap on anything um we need

057to take a look just like Sue said at everything. Everything is on the table. Right. I couldn't with a clear conscious say yes I want to p uh pierce the cap without looking at closing a school. If we're piercing a cap and not closing a school or not um changing some of the ways that we do some things, it's not being fair to our community or any anybody out there. So, we really need to be taking a look at every single thing if we're going to take that step. And I think that's going to be a very difficult step to take because I think the community has spoken loud and clear on how they're going to vote on that. Um >> well up but but I agree that all of these things need to happen

058and we need to grow and we need to make keep three village the premier school that it is. So I I think you know most of these things have to happen eventually but we need to be strategic and make sure that when we are doing that that we have looked at everything else to say that we cut everywhere possible now we need to start adding back in. >> Right. And and I don't disagree with that at all. And even with the potential with the elementary, we were saying uh in some areas with the enrollment declining, you could cut in different positions. Part of that um 1.5 million, that's eight teaching positions being cut along with the administration of a building and some of the support staff in that building. But if we rented it to

059someone um that that might have we still have to keep the building operational. So you're exactly right. We need to price out all these items and see what this would look like. Um I'm not convinced that because bond because we're piercing the cap has failed in the past that people are unwilling to do that going forward. I think we need to if we weren't were to move beyond the cap, we would need to do a massive uh PR campaign with the community for them to understand why. And literally my phone in the superintendent's office and I'm sure the the cabinet's offices rings every day with another parent that's upset about something that's they had in the past that's missing now and trying to understand why don't we have this and it started with the first

060day of school or prek and people saying where's the security guard for the prek program. That was one of the first things we heard about. You know I think Sheree and I had some conversations about IG. there IG parents out there that feel that their children because of who what their their needs are would love to see this. Stanley and I have had some conversations about the idea of start time. You know, this is not something we said we we just didn't have the money to do this year. Not we never said that it's not something we shouldn't do. We said it was something we just didn't have the money to do. So, it's one of those things where as a community as a whole has to understand that if Mr. Carlson's numbers are accurate

061with the estimates that we're portraying, and I'm fully confident they are, we will, with the money that will be coming in from the increase uh for the the tax cap and whatever potential cuts we can make, we are going to have to cut programs and services even more next year just to be status quo. And that's not, in my opinion, acceptable at this point in time. We're better than status quo. And we I think we need to consider that long-term planning. It's a big nut to crack, no doubt. But I think disciplinary conversation is about throwing the ideas out there. Let's let's see what they look like and then deciding where the major priorities must be. So, if we're going to start thinking outside the box, um is there maybe a way to relook at

062the real estate situation and have our cake and eat it too? Meaning, um possibly look to sell a property. Um, let's just for grins and giggles say this building. >> So now the academy and the administration needs to move somewhere. Is there any way to do that and still close one of the elementary schools? >> Repurpose. You mean because if if this if the appetite is out there for this to be a sale, I would obviously want the other elementary school to be a leasing opportunity so we have some passive income, >> right? And I I I don't know if we could lease the other elementary school out with with clos with losing this building with the academy and us. We would need a large enough space to fit both programs. We couldn't fit now.

063Okay. Let's say add in let's say a Boseis program to that same building at the same time. Depends on how which building we're talking about in the size of the program we're referring to. You know, the Bosey's rate is not a lot of money. When we looked at the five classrooms for this year, we were only talking about maybe $60,000 coming in. That's not >> Yeah. I wasn't even thinking. I'm thinking way outside the box. >> Yes. And then the sale of this building. You know, we we were talking with the Stony Brook School about potential um lease of the building and we put that proposal out. They're still very much interested in buying the building from us. >> Right. >> So, that's we're working right now. The PAC was authorized to move forward with

064it. We we've partnered with a uh the board approved a partnership with a uh commercial real estate uh agent in the community. Um, you know, we're looking at the sale of the Nichols Road building, the sale of the or lease of the property off of Hawkins. Um, even a lease of that property. We're probably not going to see that money generated for at least another year, year and a half at the most. And then that sale of the property, let's say it's Nicholls Road, we sell that property for whatever amount of money. That's a one-time deal. And, you know, where should that go? The BAC's recommendation from last year was not to just take that money and try to offset the budget for one year because it's going to be gone in a minute. So,

065you know, we we're still trying to recover reserves in the district and and and I'm I'm going to get on my soap box for one second and I'm apologize. It's a little frustrating from my standpoint to hear people complaining about from the state level what we're doing on Long Island and where these wealthy districts are sitting on reserves. Well, we're not sitting on reserves. We did the right thing in making sure our kids could come in here and to our schools during COVID and it cost us a lot of money. And now we need the community to understand that that cost of that money is now we're we're seeing the the the uh negative effect of what that looks like now. And people on Long Island need to get upset because your your tax dollars

066are going to other parts of the state and you're not getting back what you need. Those numbers that Jeff just showed us, those are real. we're we're getting less money than we did 20 years ago. So, we should be angry about that in some capacity to do something about that. And that's where our legislative committee is very important with having those conversations with our local leadership in the area to have them understand that it's not just the districts that are that are less wealthy than three village that they're getting a lot of money. They should get the money. They have needs in those districts. But it's not at the cost of the wealthier districts losing money to help support their students and their programs. you know, this is we're going to make everyone equal now

067in the state of New York. So, we're going to we're going to rise to the level of mediocrity in three village, whereas we've been leading the state and leading the region. You know, we've been the leader in Suffach County for many, many years. And the parents and families still come to us because ENL parents are coming here because their children are getting a better education here than they feel they're going to get in other districts. We have families that come here because of our science olympiad program. Their parents that come here because of our IG program. They come here for our special education program. We send less than 1% of our students out of district for special education. I dare anyone to find a district that's doing that anywhere in our area. That's something we

068should be proud of that we're doing. But it's at a cost. You know, we're looking at ratios that are out of whack in some of our classes. So, your teachers are struggling to support special education students, ENL students, 504 students, and general education students all in the same classroom. you know, we're going to get them either roller skates to roll around the room or we need to figure out some other type of support for that. But, you know, it's it's almost unsustainable and and humanly impossible to do some of the things that we've been able to accomplish in the past. >> Can I ask any any uh members of the cabinet, this isn't a three village problem, clearly, right? The the inequity of funding is an everybody problem. Some districts more so than others. So,

069what are some other strategies you're seeing other districts talk about to get to get over the tax cap hump? >> Well, uh there are some each year there are a few more districts that attempt to pierce the cap. Um and this is going to be a growing problem. Um we we saw uh a couple of years ago some school districts got tremendous amounts of state aid. Um, again, not not to knock them and say, Brentwood School District, their state aid increased by over $200 million per year over what they were getting. Uh, good for them. Okay. Um, so that's not a problem for them. Um, uh, um, uh, some of the less wealthy districts, their tax levy might makes up less than 20% of their total revenue. So, a cap on that piece isn't as

070big a deal as to a district like ours where 75% of our revenue comes from the tax levy. So, it's less of an issue for for those districts. Um, for districts that are in the more affluent um similar to us range, so they have not gotten the the state aid increase either. Um well that's why I showed the slide with well what happened during COVID like where when our fund balance decreased by over 20%. Um what happened in other districts? Well their their fund balance increased uh during that time. So if for example, you know, again, and if if instead of us keeping schools open during COVID, if we had done the same as everyone else, when our when our fund balance went from 24.9 million down to 18.5, if it had gone from 24.9

071up to 30 million, uh well, we wouldn't even be having this dis conversation right now because we would have still had some or fund balance we could rely on. Um so so it's going to become more of a problem. It's not that our costs are increasing more than other districts. Everybody's costs are increasing. Inflation is out of control. Um it's just some districts um are are not at the point we are. CO sped that along. Um so we we arrived there faster than a lot of other districts because of that. Uh but it's going to become more of a problem uh all all over. It just is. It's just you know when when when we have these, you know, inflation crazy inflation. I mean you So even some of the years where whether when inflation

072is low, well that's great. Inflation's only 1%. But that means the tax cap is only 1% also. So it just it just can't last like that forever. it it just can't. Massachusetts was one of the first states that implemented a tax cap. It was at 4%. And it was absolutely unsustainable there. So for New York to assume to have it half of that amount and this was a great political ploy by the politicians that put this forward. Yes, it's it kept the taxes lower, but the state sitting on 15% of the state budget in reserves. We're not even at 4% in our reserves. >> I mean, even now, not school districts, but like so for instance, so like towns, right? So you don't vote for a town budget, right? Um so they have a tax

073cap also, but it's only 60% of the town board has to vote to to go over that, which is easy for them to do. Smithtown just voted on their I think was >> it's over 9% >> over 9% next year. >> Southampton, same thing. >> They're seeing the same thing. They they just can't keep doing business limited to that 2%. >> This can't be done. >> No. and and keep the same level of service either. So, one or the other as Dr. Scandal mentioned, you know, well, we have to cut things to to fit within that or >> Amy Ramy. >> Yeah, I I think reputationally this district has always been a strong one. It's one of the reasons a lot of us moved into the district. There's there's a reputation about the strength of

074the programs um academic, athletic, it bears out in many different ways, right? Our schools have a reputation that have results on how our students are recruited by colleges both for athletic and for academic items. Look, I if if we keep to this tax gap, it's it's very clear that from an inflation standpoint, our costs are going to continue going up. There's there's no tomorrow to that. >> Um and we will be cutting programs year after year. I think I agree with Dr. Scan here that that situation is untenable. there there is no cutting our way out of this because we're going to be at a race to the bottom. Um so that that situation itself is untenable and I think the community needs to hear from us in terms of what that effect is going

075to be long term because that that will affect the attractiveness of this district. It will affect property values. Um and you know we we can complain about the rise in taxes but that that's not a I don't think property value hits is something people want to take in either. And that that's on top of the all the other effects on student recruitment and student performance, right? I think I agree with your point. So like we should probably look at the whole kahuna. If we're going to do this, we can't look at it in isolation u of you know we just need to add on these programs. We'll probably need to look at all the elements each and every element that there is and look for areas to extract u extract you know dollars where they

076can come out. But I think we also need to get an idea of the framing of the cost of some of these programs. You've outlined a few of them, but I think it'd be helpful for the board as we move forward to understand what the costs are of all of them. And at some point, we may have to let the community decide as to whether or not they want to support these. There there are different constituencies that support or want different things uh for the students and what they think is important. We may have to put it out to the community to, you know, get to decide and have a say on that. But I staying at the cap like just just just the two years on the budget advisory committee and and looking at

077the budgets staying two you know you can see the effects of that and every year we already started cutting healthcare costs are not going to go down the pension costs are not going to go down. Inflation on supplies and other consumables by the district are not going to go down. Right? So even if the district were to somehow implement something where the contractual increases in staff costs more to be kept below the cap let's say arguably it still would we we would still go through expenses >> and there's a limit to how much we can keep cutting academic athletic programs you know before before the district is Detroit. So true. >> And to support that statement even further is that when you when you look at the those programs and you say, you know, we're

078going to cut this, we're someone's going to be impacted by that. >> And there are districts over the course of years because of budget is situations have cut out middle level sports to what extent they cut out all the opportunities, the academic opportunities. That's again what we pride ourselves on with with a lot of the things that our students have been successful with. So, you know, it's it's a tough it's a tough thing to discuss, but it's something that we really need to be honest and straightforward with with looking at this. >> And we have to make some hard decisions. >> Yes, indeed. Indeed. I >> It goes It goes without saying, I think anybody any of us, anybody watching, if there's anybody watching, um will look at all of that list and say, "Yes,

079yes, yes, yes, yes. Let's do all of those things." that is, you know, we have an amazing district here. We have an amazing culture. We do incredible things for our kids. All of our kids, whatever their abilities, we do great things for them. And of course, we all want to keep doing great things. But I think it's important that we not appear tonedeaf. Times are really hard. People are struggling. Our community, people are struggling to put food on the table. So, I I just >> don't want to appear, you know, flip that. We're just like, "Oh, let's let's talk about piercing the cap." That's a that's a huge conversation. And and I just want to go on record by saying we understand how impactful every single one of those tax dollars is to people right

080now. And um this is not a light conversation to consider making that burden even even heavier to carry. >> Right. And I think absolutely I mean everything here is something I think that most of us want to do eventually but we need to make sure that we are being prudent in how we are doing that and when we are doing that and looking at what the cost is to the community. Um you know we've had the this year and last year we had great success with all of our contracts with all of our unions and they have been terrific you know working with the district to get our costs as low as possible. I think has been a huge success, better than the last decade. Um, and and I don't want it coming back that

081we're taking away, you know, more jobs and doing this and doing that when they've been so gracious to the district to try to keep our costs in line. Um, and I also don't want the community thinking that we're spending all their money without exhausting all the possible avenues. And after we exhaust those avenues, yes, if we have to pierce the cap, we have to pierce the cap. But I don't think we have exhausted them all yet. Um especially in a year where we're also asking them to pass a bond. Um I think that's going to be very difficult. Maybe not. Hopefully I'm wrong. Um that'd be great. Um but I think we just need to make sure that we are being very diligent and figuring out maybe prioritizing what this entire list is. That would

082be great. And adding in a few things and then maybe in a year or two piercing the cap if we have to. So just to that point, the board has been outstanding and I and again compliments to all of the unions that we've worked with in negotiations with contracts and the the zeros that the teachers union, the administrators union, the cabinet has taken over the course of years to try to keep the budgets under wrapped. But for that same point though, if the raises that those unions are getting now is less than the rate of inflation, this those people are making less money every year, too. They're not alone. So, we're all feeling the pinch of this >> as educators. It's a vicious cycle in New York State and it's a broken model to keep

083relying on property taxes to support the educational system in the state. It's just an archaic system to have to work with. So, it's it's it's got to be blown up from internal and in the state level to have that change. Um, but there's there are parts of the state that are benefiting from the work down here on the lower end of the state and they're not caring that we have taxes this high. They they said, "Well, cut back on the services that you're providing the kids. Be more equal to the other districts that don't do as much as you you do." That's a hard sell to to folks. And like you said, part of the reputation of the district and the property values and the real estate values that you're seeing is because the school

084district has a great reputation. And it's the parents and the students and the and the faculty and the administration, the staff in this district that has made it that way over the course of almost 60 years. But this model with this tax cap, it's flawed. It's systemically flawed. It's 14 years of doing this now and we're finally seeing the the negative aspects of this and the damage it's now going to do to an a thriving educational system like Three Village if we don't do something at some point in time to move forward. And yeah, I I I don't disagree, but again, some of the steps that we need to take are going to take time. We're not going to sell a piece of property, at least a piece of property in in two months or

085even six months. It's going to take much longer than that. So, we need to be prepared for what is that going to look like. And if it does happen, great. Um, but that's only one step of many steps we may have to take. >> Okay, quick quick question to Miss Carlson. So, um, my understanding, we tried so hard to limit our budget under the tax cap. However, property tax only has very small portion because of school budget, right? I remember one year we had less than 2% but the town actually charge much higher property tax compared to what we made was almost 8% for most houses. So how do you know how the town divide us or they simply voted say oh this year every house pays 8% or 9%. >> Uh well you do

086you mean how the town determines their >> the property tax because we were worrying so much about the increasing property tax. However this is just a small portion of the property tax. Well, school taxes typically make up about 2/3 of the of the property. >> Not in a year that the town charges like 8% while we only did 2%, isn't it? Or it's it's a different >> Well, the gap would be closing. It would Yeah, but I I would stay say still on on average school taxes make up the majority of property taxes. Certainly, certainly he >> that's absolute value wise but the percentage change because we were talking about percentage change and people worrying about their property tax change by percentage. >> Yeah. >> So even though we made 2% or point or 1.9%

087we tried so hard damaging our own students >> but the town actually charges with just a few votes not it doesn't seem making sense to me. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, you're right. You're right. Um >> I feel like we sacrifice too much. >> Yeah. And I think that's kind of kind of the you know what what we're saying is is either one one way or the other. We either have to keep taking apart or do do something else. Yeah. And remember the town and I don't know what the town of Brook Haven if if they've decid I don't even know if they've done their budget finished their budget for next year. It was the town of Smithtown uh way above the tax cap. Uh but as I said they don't have you don't you don't

088vote on that budget, right? They just say here's what it is. Um ours in the library are the only budgets you vote on. Um and uh so it only for them to go above the cap, it only means 60% of their town council has to vote to go. >> So what's a town cap? Do they have a 2% cap or >> Sure. They have the same thing. All all local all governments throughout the state have have the cap. >> No. And they there was no problem voting at 8%. >> No, because it's only it's only the the the town board that votes on it. If you if it was if it was just the board of education that voted on this, we'd be done right now. We would have had the money last year, this

089year. We would have had start time would have changed would have been fixing everything. >> We don't we don't get to vote on the federal government budget, the state budget, a town budget, a county budget. We don't get to vote on any of those. >> Got you. >> So, going back to the percentage change, uh how much percentage change are the benefits? Because this is set, right? This is two 2.3 million. How much do you record the percentage change compared to last year? the benefit. >> Well, it it varies. Some of them some of them them are higher and some are lower. >> I know you were saying health insurance you were estimating like 10% change. I just wonder for the benefit how much percentage change that that was. >> Uh yeah. Well, the so

090the the social security right so the year retirement systems they pretty much are offsetting each other for this coming up year. uh because as I mentioned uh employees retirement system rates going up t teachers retirement system rates going down but they're both a percentage of salaries. So as salaries go up we pay more but uh those two will kind of offset uh FICA is the we pay the as the employer our rate is 7.65% of salaries. So as salaries go up that goes up. Um >> so you're saying this is actually usually 50% of the salary increase the benefit because the salary >> sometimes well workers comp workers compensation that that number has grown tremendously uh in in in the in the recent year or two. Um and there's a a a number of reasons

091why. Um but that's workplace injuries. Um and most of them um are related to uh isn't that I mean sometimes it could be could be a slip and a fall. It could be something like that but most of what we're seeing in the increase is um uh related to dealing with students. Um that's what we're seeing as a a large increase. Um that that's a direct cause to us. Uh the Medicare as I mentioned that's going up by about 10% the Medicare premiums um the separation pay that's the um that's the any retirement incentive kind of pay uh unemployment insurance um as I said that almost doubled the the uh weekly maximum uh went from $45 to >> more than doubled right$8 850 yeah more than doubled uh like that overnight doubled. Um, so it's

092not one percentage increase, it's it's various uh increases. Uh, but that but you could combine them all. It's just it's just a lot of money. Uh, and that's before we even start looking at things like liability insurance. Um, uh, we like every other school district, I mean, you know, it's every it's we're in a in a in a lawsuit happy happy world these days. Um there's uh lawsuits galore um and some of the strategies of of what some of the the firms have um that when especially when they're going against attorneys representing that are representing insurance companies. It seems like I'm not an attorney so I I don't want to say but it seems like just keep pushing and pushing and pushing and hope for a settlement. Um, and cuz eventually the insurance company will

093say it's cheaper to settle than than to continue fighting it. Um, and then that just that starts a snowball. Um, >> thank you. >> Yeah. >> Um, just thinking ahead of what would be helpful. Um, so in addition to attaching some preliminary dollar numbers to each of the aspirations, >> an impact. So, in other words, like how many students would this thing impact? Because, you know, we want to create a cocktail where we get the most benefit for the most the greatest number of of students. Um, that would be helpful to me. >> No problem. >> Having one of those cocktails when they get home. I >> think everybody may need one of those cocktails when we get home. Um, anybody else on this budget conversation before we move on to our next item? I

094just wanted to say I think all of the um items that the superintendent gave us are phenomenal in order to keep up what our district should be. However, I'd like to see everything itemized. I'd like to see an itemization, an item budget of as far as how much it would be if we're losing staff, if staff is going to be retiring, how much this would be. And my main concern right now, I mean, I know it's early for this, but my main concern right now is the bond. So I think we should really at this point start focusing on promoting that and at the same time working on this but giving the us and the community more information on this on what these items cost >> and all that. That's why we wanted to start

095talking about it now six months ahead of time uh instead of waiting till you know February or whatever. So, >> all right. Well, thank you all. I know this was very unpleasant, difficult work, difficult conversation, but um it's good. It's productive. >> So, Sue, could could I just add something to So, I mean, I'm generally I'd be reluctant to to pierce the cap, but of course, it depends on the the specifics. And so, I think the two biggest items that I mean, we don't have clarity on these right now, but we would need to, you know, before we decide what we're doing, we would need to know uh the big numbers would be the number of retirements. So we don't we don't have the specifics. A lot of people are eligible. Uh it's not going

096to be zero though, right? There's going to be some number. Um so so that's that's important especially if some of those positions there's there's attrition, right? Because our enrollments, you know, the charts behind me, right? It's been going down. And even if it's stabilized at the lower levels, there's the the the class that's leaving is still bigger than the class that's coming in. And it's not just us. This is, you know, Long Island, New York-wide. So if enrollment's going down, it makes sense that there'd be some attrition and that there's some savings in that. Uh and the other one is the the health care costs. I think like the last two years it was around 10%. So uh there's a chance that comes in lower. So that that that could be good. That could be

097good for us financially as well too. But I mean it's it's hard too, right? We can't just uh rely on retirements all the time, right? We're going to get down to one teacher educating one student. That's not that's not the end goal, right? So, um it's it's it's tough, but it's I would say it's a still a little premature to to talk about that, but um I'll look forward to the specifics, I guess, as they come in. >> I'm dying. It's okay. >> Um just so there's awareness. So, uh February 1 is the deadline for teachers for notifications for retirements. Um Dr. Dresky, February 15th for administration administration, February 15th. So, we won't know we won't know final numbers for retirement numbers until then. Um, and and then the piece that we're trying to get

098to with this is yes, that every retiree if we replace them one for one is about $100,000 savings. However, if you're talking about restoring some of the programs that we used to have, it's it's not going to equal out. So, it's not going to be a dead, you know, this equals that. That may not be the case. It depends. But again, it depends on what you're prioritizing as you move forward. Excuse me. >> Well, we go what we're going to need is Jeff's very specific numbers has to be itemized so that we can really figure out where everything is because we do not want this district to collapse and it's very very important to figure out where the money is coming from, how much is coming from and where it's going and how much is

099it going to where etc. So all that is very very specific and it's on Mr. Carlson's shoulders to get that all that specific stuff to us early so that we can discuss it and and make some some very hard decisions. >> Good thing you have strong shoulders and I and I will say on the record, we're not collapsing. Don't worry, we are okay. We will figure >> I'm collapsing right now. I'm sorry. >> All right. Uh we will move on now to our long-term planning committee charge, Dr. Scanland. >> So, uh, last meetings, we are prepared to move forward with the, uh, with the request to the community for, uh, participation on this committee. As the board mentioned last time, we were talking about looking at the board goals, particularly the ones in the budgetary

100area as being the charge for the committee. If there's something additional, please let us know as we move forward. Um, but we're we're going to plh plan to get that survey sent out, excuse me, this week to the community. Excellent. Thank you. Anybody have anything to add to that? Okay, then uh that takes us to item D. Uh also Dr. Scanland, when you're ready. >> Actually, Dr. Scan, if you don't mind if I start that. >> Be my guest. Thanks. >> Suffford County Civil Service um has weighed in and recently taken the position that um the armed guard piece is now a competitive title. Um it wasn't that way to our understanding until most recently. The last list um came out December 2024, it appears, which means that the test was most likely given uh

101summer of 2024 because these things kind of take a while. So, um I inquired about when the next uh test would be given. Clearly, they have no idea. They're guesstimating um as little as two, as much as three. When it comes to a competitive title, um as described in the Friday memo, this means um our job is to canvas a list. Uh we recently looked at the current list. There's about 27 um security guards uh that have this competitive title on the list. Um which means that in order to um do some of the things that we talked about and and we want our people to be eligible for it, our people have to get on this list somehow. So um the way the competitive world works is you have to take from the list

102first. If there's nobody available on that list, then we could start then we could start um we could start hiring our own provisionally with the provision that when the test comes out that they that they have to take that test and be reachable. So that's a that's a big piece I think of the conversation of the armed guards that I think wasn't um wasn't apparent in the beginning. So piece of information that we just wanted the board to be aware of. >> Sorry. >> Thank you. Any any questions? taking a look. >> Now I want you to breathe. >> I just just for cuz I'm not very familiar with civil service tests. So basically what you're saying is there's a list right now of armed security guards. Right. Yes. >> And in order for us

103to have an armed security guard at this school, we would need to look at that list and pick John Doe, Bob Smith by score. Yes. >> By score. So they they rank them one through whatever. So it could be somebody we have absolutely no idea who it is which goes against our whole conversation where we wanted to keep it in house. So now we probably can't keep it in house because we need to go through this list. Now is there anybody in the security um union that is on that list or any of our people on that list as it is? >> Not currently but that doesn't that doesn't necessarily mean that we can't hire our internal people. Chris, do you want to talk a little bit about the the process by which we can

104get somebody? Uh >> yeah, I mean I I I think ultimately we'd have to go through and exhaust the list, offer positions to people. Um if they don't accept those positions or if there's not enough people that are interested, then you could hire somebody u internally provisionally while they while they take the test. The other alternative is our employees can take the list if they score high enough. >> They could take the test, they could score high enough on the test and then be reachable. um and then you know hire them through that process. It you know CI civil service is a very interesting thing. It's uh they can say they're not going to offer a test for a while. Um we could certainly reach out and try to put pressure on them to offer

105another test and have our employees take the test. I would think that that's the most effective route if we're going to if we want our own employees that are already here to be able to be hired is to get them get them to offer a test and get them to score high enough on the test. And just out of curiosity, if you hire somebody provisionally, they then take the exam and they do poorly, what happens? >> You have to let them go. >> Yes. >> And usually with the civil service, we all know, I mean, we've been through this a long time. We know that when there's that list and you have to take the first three, interview them. If those three want it, well, then you have to take them. >> Correct. That's for

106a single position, too. >> We were looking at adding multiple in this in this venue. >> We'll see what Jack says. >> The other piece that we just want to mention too with this um I know the board had some discussion at one of our last meetings regarding metal detectors and I know you were receiving a lot of communication from individuals and some of the things that Sue read and we were receiving some letters. So, we started to explore pricing on that uh on a on a cheap end of a portable one. Jeff did some research and it looks about $5,000 for just one one setup. That's on a low end. So, we would need to figure out if that's what we want to do from the board's perspective as well as, you know, where

107are we putting them is going to determine how many we're going to need. When are we going to use them is another factor because if this is something um we're going to do at every school, we're doing this at the beginning of the day, throughout the day. Do we have students that arrive a little later at the high school sometimes? Are we going to put these in elementary schools? Are we just going to do it during the school day? Are we going to do it for every activity we have? So, that would be a tremendous amount of of uh money and time and support. And as Jack Blam has pointed out multiple times, it's it's great you have the metal detector. What if you do if you find someone that has something, what do you

108do next? Um, and you know, Jeff was mentioning about going to Ranger game. As an Islander fan, I was a little offended, but that's another story. Um, you know, just think about sometimes when you go to venues like that, how many look around at how many people are standing there vetting people coming in to an area like that. Ward Melville High School alone, there's over 2,000 people that are walking through the doors every day. 1786 students plus about 200 faculty, staff, and administration. That's a lot of people. And we can't assume that only the students get vetted. We we would have to think about everyone getting vetted, all visitors being vetted. So there's a lot behind this. And it maybe if that's included in the budget process, we might as well just take you're going

109above the cap before you even get out of the gate with this one because that's the amount of money you would have to spend on that. We're talking nine buildings and word mobile alone with the multiple entrances in the morning. How many are we going to limit those to? And how many how are you going to get 2,000 people into the building before 7:05 in the morning as buses are literally pulling up at 10 minutes to to 7 trying to get them all in and get them bedded and get them out. I mean on on a given day during midterms and finals uh our our security staff does an amazing job just going through backpacks getting kids in and and pushing them through. Now try to imagine all those kids going through a metal detector.

110Um it it's going to be timeconuming. Um, and let's hope if we if we ever put them into if they were ever put into place that we don't find anything cuz if we don't have any backup to what that looks like, we've been we've been warned multiple times. What is that going to look like? >> Okay. Any other questions or thoughts on any of these topics? All righty. Do I see a motion to adjurnn? So move. >> Second. All in favor? All right. Thank you everybody. Happy Thanksgiving.