001got a nose like blood follow right I I know oh I thought you're still talking about the dogs yeah this is what we use for Teacher observations and stuff because they just put this on them it's a it's a microphone and it follows them around the room that way they can teach and it's kind of a self-reflection thing and they can turn it into the admin for feedback for national board it's a great I would be it's a great tool we we've got them in all all our we've got three of them I think and they um are excellent for feedback you know you get to watch it watch it as often as you want to and then replay hey how did I do this or what did I miss here it's amazing you see
002yourself do that you never mine and almost everybody has a story the first time they saw themselves teaching I was doing this all the time I wouldn't big plastic glasses I had no idea though I still do what I caught myself doing 100 years ago when I first saw myself on video teaching and I still do it I've tried all these years to stop I teach with my hands and you know y'all probably I teach with my hands I F with my hands everything is animated and um my wife will say you got to quit doing that people think you're mad going I got I got called out mine is I do this okay that little it's like a tick was just the glass all the time and just about everybody has it yes something
003and they soon as they watch themselves on video they're like oh man when I teach a public school tell them don't touch your face no matter what because that's what they usually their nose or something it looks bad got TI up CCH up is he driving all the way from the city I don't know I did he he responded he was yeah he teaches he drives there to teach StarTex message goes out the window that's a long I think that's what he he teaches that either Elizabeth State University or C's one of the places I work that were supposed to track voices and faces hey found out pretty quick that you got make it looking for any large round objects in the room oh we're upstairs uh just go upstairs I'll be on the hallway
004be a balloon a balloon balloon zoom zoom right in was very uncomfortable must be that 4:30 notification some kind of scheduled releas that's it's for inters yes Kelsey told me one time first started working foring there he is in a meeting one of went off the computer it was on the phone and went to the bathroom oh and that same thing she didn't know it you make a sound it makes you the person yes she she said all of a sudden D it just went white and she never got back on I what she said no no my baseball oh okay sure you go we have I guess we'll do this we ready um i' like to call to order the special work or special school board meeting uh for February 24th 2025 okay today
005we are going to make we they have a motion to approve funds for already I'm going to need some help here yeah we're going to if you don't mind just um letting us do our present and then we'll um You can call for the motion once everybody because we're going to answer probably 99% of the questions first okay and then if there is some uh debate some discussion you you know you'll take care of that motion that's all right that works perfectly sorry about that no it's all good um this uh is an unusual situation we were hoping to be ready to present this in the February meeting and then we were there was a couple of pieces we were not quite ready for waiting on some information some final information from uh the vendor
006and then um it had to be done before the March meeting because there's a ad dday U on purchasing equipment with a certain type of freon is my understanding and Andrew will go over all the details of that but that's why we're bringing it now but this is not new to those of you who've been on the board for some time this has been on the CIP I think since 2018 16 um you know long before I got here um the HVAC system which is a boiler Chiller system at Co High School's been in place for many many years and um is I think about 10 years outside of its normal lifespan um and um it's gotten a lot of Band-Aids over the years and been kicked down the road because it as you see
007in um project cost it's very expensive um HVAC systems for public buildings especially schools are ordinary um and we'll Andrew will go through kind of the whole um history of this to get to where we are but the short answer is it's got to be done this summer uh one more winter especially with that boiler um everybody that's looking at it says it's it's not going to make it so uh you know when when the weather turns cold everybody that knows anything about this boiler all of our maintenance teams the administration we all cross our fingers and and pray that we get through this cold snap with um it's got metal chips in the oil um all the signs that this thing is on its last leg um Andrew will also talk about some numbers
008of what we've been paying out annually to along uh with this system and the new system that talk about of course is one we've just um become very familiar with having just installed it at Primary School um the for Allens purposes the same system um with significant cost savings over time so that's the my te up and I'm going turn it over to the expert who's been living and breathing this for several months so just a quick recap if you've not been um you know kind of up to date with what the current state of the system really is and he kind of alluded to a lot of it um um you know we have a VAV system with a bowler Chiller and Tower um at the high school um like you said I think
009it was 2016 2018 some Sometimes some components were a part of the CIP project starting then so it's been you know significantly U limping along um since then so um just since I started I can test the the water chiller um Tower it's got a bad leak in them if you go right now where it's been freezing temperatures there's ickles bigest trees um coming from it and you know with that system being it uses water to evaporate um you know that's eating a lot of our utilities trying to replenish that water to get eater pool whatever we're trying to do within the building um replacement parts I'll get to the slide in a minute but you know again even since I've started this position this past summer multiple Band-Aids have been had to put on
010the controls um you know we were having some ignition problems and even a gas leak in one that we had to treat pretty um rapidly because of the you know safety D and that so um um you know significant repairs you know if I had put a word on it I put significant on Bowlers and Chiller Towers um the rooftop air handler units um you know all those internal and external rust is putting it mildly um even the internal ones are you know really showing their age with the systems and I would confidently say the majority of the controls on each one of these boxes are being manually controlled at this point um you know Chris Ry and the staff done a great job uh to keep it you know reasonable within temperatures by no
011means it's been perfect but again we're having to control each component um and that definitely takes a lot of man hours around the clock um and a lot of um frustration you know for teachers saying hey it's hot it's cold and us having to react to that um piping is also starting to leak the seals um when the temperature changes in the pipes as it cools down they start leaking we turn it back up they'll start sealing themselves in the chemical you won see pink D that's hitting the floors um and again no consistent Temps at all so the history like we've been saying it's been on CP for quite some time um with the two years ago really the full system hitting that um and trying to press hard for that um past three
012years $30,000 worth of repairs um you know easily with the motors the control units the different components it's total that um and then $10,000 annually just for us to you know function with this unit for the utilities the sewer water being the most significant Source like I said it's it's got a big leak it runs off water anyway so it's going to draw um it just it's hard to keep it going um in the current state that it's in and that that Tower um has a lot of dislodged pieces in it for sure all right so the quote and I put original lightly this is kind of like where it started um with the full system replacement uh to get down to was the 2.8 we were quoted 3.5 last summer um from uh work
013and uh it was for the vrf system so moving from the VAB to vrf um it was more efficient um definitely price uh you know favorable for us um and then definitely they said that the the Cooper contract that we used for the primary school was still open and we could use that which expedites this whole process not having to go to bid and you know take all that time um the 4.2 that we finally got it down to uh we did make Cuts around $500,000 for the project uh from the 4.7 which was the original proposal that came in from war they did bring it down considerably for us um but those cuts did not impact the performance of the system usually you hear that word valued engineered um that wasn't the route that
014they try to take we we still remain with the Integrity of the system um they really just left certain components that didn't necessarily have to be taken away that no longer have function they would just make them safe drain them cap them um and then it would be up to us you know one day to try to get money on scraping whatever we want to do um so that's where the cuts went and then there was only one really section of the building they had a redesign which is that a-hall Forum uh band and course room um area it's really the larger spacer rooms um and they were going to share a unit with some gas packs um which was a little bit different than the VF kind of does as a whole um but
015just to make sure that we still had temper control in those areas and they're the bigger spaced areas so a little bit different if you don't know how this kind of operates uh it's refrigerant based um it has an outdoor unit that controls many indoor units so that's the efficiency piece and it does provide individual Zone controls um it's not like our current system where it's either on or it's off and you poop the whole buildings at a standard temperature but it does give um control to different zones um and like I said it's more energy efficient just due to the the less of the carbon footprint um the method that uses the heat and cool we'll get to that in a second um we you know I asked for them when we started this
016process you know give me some data on the efficiency I keep on hearing it's more efficient it's more efficient they've said over the the past five years they've been putting these units into other spaces that they've seen anywhere between 20 and 40% um decreases in utilities and definitely U maintenance costs for those systems overall over time so um these are some of the things that would eliminate we would not have to treat any water so the water pumps are out the chemical to do that um is out to treat the water um and the the the rooms will start receiving the exact amount of fresh air that's needed and it's not just for the the air quality that's one piece uh because there are some regulations you have to have so much fresh air in
017the building but it also will allow it to run more efficient that if it's a cooler day outside it can open itself up and utilize that instead of spending its own energy to create that cooling so um right now it's you know we could do that but you know you're not drawing much air in that current system that we have um so it is an efficiency um method it uses we currently used Johnson Controls for all our systems um until we start replacing systems within the division like this one is no longer on Johnson U the primary school is no longer on Johnson and this one is another opportunity to move away and the only reason I bring that up is it kind of creates a system where we have to cater to their needs
018instead of the other way around um and it gives us an opportunity to Branch away and have a little bit better pricing and options um they're talking about using train and this be um is the two components that're talking about this particular build U which will give us a lot more range on the controls um the water bill like I've stated before uses evaporated waterair system that's not going to be a thing anymore and then like I said the carbon footprint from it burning all the the fuels is is going to decrease significantly um this is kind of like the the funding breakdown here um originally the quote 2.8 increased to 3.5 last summer we got approve that 700,000 for from the carryovers um and then we're here today to kind of pitch to all
019to try to get a proposal to approve uh the 1.5 from our Capital um Improvement Project funding um that we would in turn use some carryover funding for whatever we needed to replenish after this is over um to make sure that those Capital Improvement projects that are slated to go there's six of them on this 1.5 U number under it rather to be able to still be on schedule still be able to do it um without a missing be um to name a few the uh GM roof is on it for 800,000 there's resurfacing for the parking lot there at the high school um some telephone work some more Network work um and some other things that are just going to Total those six projects within that 1.5 but with this plan it would reallocate
020the funds enough to Meet The Mark of that 4.28 um that we need to and then we have the funds and carry over to replenish so we're not you know mess anything up as far as our currency out so of course the goal um for this project timing would be to start um you know as soon as the kids and everybody finish up there on June um and then significant U completion is not fully complete before everyone returns back for um the new school year um work is confident they can meet our timeline uh the time frame that he was saying we were coming close to for the refrigerant the current system they have engineered which is the one they highly recommend is on the r 410 that switched over I think government regulations by
021the 21st you had to have it in um you know then it switches to the r454 um they're kind of working with this right now to make sure that that can still happen if we get this thing approved um but you know if not then that would require us to go over to the new refrigerant which they guarantee would increase prices and would have to regenerator the whole system because it's built on the 410 of the 454 there's some different components that would have to be added so um you know without you know um the approval there we're kind of jeopardizing that summer bill um and definitely going on to a new system which you know nobody has a a tell tail on it now if it's good bad or ugly uh you know it's
022kind of that leap when if you take the the first of any type of product um you know the The Kinks that they have to work out and things of that nature so you know they recommend it highly to try to avoid that just to you know because we're a school and limit funding and you know there's there's a lot of human beings that we see in their buildings every day that we don't want uncomfortable and that's basically it so if you have any question definitely have an answer I have um so this the switch to um r54 is requ by law like a new law yeah ever so often the refrigerant changes there used to be R22 and I mean it goes up a lot of series it's been known for a long time
023because I've been hearing ads about it even when we got our new system two years ago they were they were saying you know that so I since this has been known I I just want to know why or why did they wait until the very last minute to say hey we have to approve this now otherwise we're going to have to go with the other refrigerant you know I mean it's almost like I I I don't want to say I feel manipulated but it it feels kind of not great yeah well I I can explain that a little bit um when uh these companies are are building a proposal to retrofit a system they always try to get you the best deal they can and and they want to sell the product they know how
024to sell and um that's when we first started talking to them about that um everybody was expecting us to do this project as early as possible uh we really wanted to do it last summer 's no chance of getting it approved and the money available if you remember back well a little backdrop on this the city used some um uh Finance funding uh for that $2.8 million that's already been earb so uh that whole process was going on with planning to put in what the technology was was at the time the or whatever 410 410 um was the plan um knowing that if for some reason we didn't get to the Finish Line in time it would go to this new system I I don't know that they with M pricing out the new system
025and putting that in it's just going to be more expensive and and the question about whether they can get the product and get it installed this summer um is an unknown so I I don't think it was intentional or anything there no conspiracy in it I don't think they care which units we buy uh but everybody we've talked to another important piece that we did mention we've been working with our consultant who's been a part of prosen schools Consulting for all things uh facil facilities and maintenance since we started on this project um Keith Webb who's the retired um building and maintenance director for Newport News public schools for many many years and Keith also um after he finished our project here he went to work with the city of picosen as a consultant with
026the uh safety building that's near completion um well known around the region he knows U school um large facility maintenance and um facility planning inside now he's been involved in in this process and and feels confident in the product we're buying that it's good for this project um as well we just completed the pretty much identical product project with the same product at primary school and they're extremely happy with can I follow up yeah just so but the the old refrigerant will continue to be available in perpetuity or well I mean I don't think anybody has yeah has a crystal ball about that but they um I was going to say you can still get R12 which has been banned for you know almost 35 years you can still get 20 to you can still
027get it so it's not going to be an issue from that standpoint and you probably I don't depending on when your home was was built you'll have some version of one of these refrigerants as in your own scarcity it comes if it's 15 years from now and there's only so much left it's supply and demand you recharge your old question almost expensive to get a new one and and to be clear they have not outlawed production of 410 yet they have outlawed the production and distribution of new systems Beyond a certain dat that used that yeah that use that so um you know they wait quite a few years before they turn around and stop production of set fre on it's like a phase out right um I was going to touch back on you
028know just for and this probably benefit for you know for the three of y'all we wouldn't be having this disc right now if the price didn't move that's right you know um all this was already approved by the board approved by the city council and we used carryover funding to get from 2.8 to 3.5 and now here we are 3.5 has turned into 4.3 um and my guess is if this doesn't happen quickly that number if we don't get this project underway and done this Summer that number is going to be 5.6 or who knows what um that and especially being that the the toggle to the new equipment that uses the new refrigerant um everybody including the consultant has suggested that number is going to be a significantly higher number than the current so
029um that that is an important piece Mike I'm glad you brought that up that this is not like new we just started talking about this we had to um Kick this can down the road from from funding um from when we uh put it the the new number 2.8 was two years ago oh then you also don't have control over that that's right because it's the city that approves the money approves the CIP right so even though you might have liked to do it in 2018 or whatever the city with other projects trying to prioritize like we do need mve it around and the 2 point 8 was not um earmarked for this project until summer of 25 so it was not you know available for us to to do earlier and schools have the
030unfortunate situation of having to do projects like this in June July and August um we don't have the luxury of doing those those projects in November one question Andrew do you know about when that that I think original B system the full system was put in the last time been assum many years yeah so back in 2016 only I think the tower was included in that and over time the different components start showing up but I think the full system really didn't surface until when like 2022 22 I think is when it when the whole package was put on CIP and again this is I think the original unit to this oh that's what I was this building yeah these are 30y old oh and the lifespan on these I think or 22 years so
031picosen has been living on borrowed time um and the same was true for the primary school which was our other oldest building which had the original okay and that was a two-pipe system not to get into Weeds on that but it was kind of an experiment at the time and I think everybody realized as soon as they installed them in a few places this doesn't work and so uh picosa schools have has been dragging that albatross around for uh since the beginning of that when that school first open which I think is one of the concerns we're talking about even if we went to the new one we paid more for it we get it and then we run into it becoming an Al Road I like the idea that this is proven on also
032want to thank all of you for working out a way to move that the money that we had was it5 with the understanding that we're still going to be able to keep the other projects it looks like on track when we go to the CP next so um I mean everything I've seen I I like it and I really don't see that in my mind we have a choice uh it's the most cost effective option and I think the fact that we are cooperative and we have saved money right up front with that again to you staff identify things they're the only questions and I just something else I think it's important to mention we've been um involving the city throughout the process so as something changes we notify them um the city manager uh
033well informed about this and is um in agreement that this is the right way to approach uh this project with um the sticker price no that something else could happen now something we haven't talked about and anytime you go in an old building and do anything you always risk um ASB bestus abatement and uh we always know that going into a project but until you've done the the audit on the building you don't know um what what you're dealing with so um having 1.5 contingent funds that are already approved you know that's already approved for us to use this summer for um capital projects gives us room in the event we run into something unforeseen they drill into a wall and there's some ASB ases that needs to be aey uh none of that is
034cheap so um I I feel good about the fact that we're not um you know right to the wire on a on a dollar figure we've got this money to use and then we will use vacancy savings carryover to to um reinstate that those finances for those other projects that are already included on CIP so there's some moving Parts but again the city's involved in that and blesses that process and um the money is um available because it's already earmarked through CIP that's proved my only question which I think you touched on a little bit but the Consultants the contractors there is I guess no one has a crystal ball but kind of to your point Alissa that I mean there's no known that this Freon that is you know currently outlawed the new systems
035I mean is there a risk that 10 years down the road we are not at the useful life of the system yet we have another very large purchase to make because we can't get free on to fill the unit I I I don't that's not really my to do some looking but is that is that a concern that we're spending all this money today where we're not going to get through the units use for the systems useful light before the refrigerator if that makes sense that's a very good question and and again without a crystal bow you don't know the answer but generally speaking this product is being sold all day long today um and um you know we have somebody who's somewhat of an expert here who can probably answer better than me I
036would probably say that our risk is very very low I mean there's always a risk there sure but you know if you were to turn around and say 10 years from now you couldn't get 410 that means that probably 80% of the houses in Theos couldn't get 410 you know so and and it's similar types of numbers across you know the United States now 80% I just out of my head I don't have anything written down that says you know that all the units of bosen are you know you know the point being is you know like you know my dad's old house had our 22 in the units and those units were you know you know probably uh 15 years old and they were put in a couple years before 22 was Outlaw you
037know you know so and you could still get it you know I have another 22 at home you know so um you know I don't think we're going to run into that issue you know and I don't know what what brand system they're quoting are they're quoting M VY it's train in miss you know you're talking about systems you know themselves that have been proven for probably close to 45 years between Europe and the United States uh VF systems have been around for 30 plus years between United States and Europe so you know they're proven proven system and I I don't think I think the risk the risk is there you know but I think it's you know 10 years from now it's a bit you could turn around and go to fund want to
038but sure you know my concern is not the availability of it soon as that law goes into effect they're now going to be selling it at a pretty good price it's the cost Effectiveness what you can't get it anymore that's the key so you'll still be able to buy 410 right you know and but the price of it may be triple what you're pay for our once they stop manufacturing 410 but you know you got they the issue is the is the the issue is the manufacturer and sale of the units they're still allowed to manufacture and sell the freon so there's you they're controlling the price right they're controling the price now right but it's not illegal now so as soon as it becomes you a hotter commodity we're seeing right now across other
039multif family jobs which is a typical other um you know product that we turn around CD systems then going to the new Freon is anywhere between 15 and 35% more expensive um and that is that's a function of a couple different things it's a function of of of of the systems themselves because the freon more expensive and the systems are more expensive um there are some new code stuff that goes into what happens with the with that Freon um you know almost all frons they use propane as a as a carrier um you know so it's not all just a refrigerant in it um and with the new one it's got a higher amount of propane in it um which makes it flammable um which you know causes some other issues with code and you
040know it would be a mess I think if we turned around and went you know everybody's concerns are 100% valid I don't want to negate you know anybody's concerns I mean they're all real concerns and they you know we could all point to I think the to kind of U summarize the all all the concerns are real but the reality is um if we don't do this system that's on the table now there will be no project done in fy2 and then we have fa then if something fails which it predictably will um January February next winter with that boiler um the the solution to that um is something that none of us have the uh ability to find that kind of money um if you don't have a system to replace it already on
041order you do a temporary system and they charge you about $10,000 a day it's it's an ex extraordinary process to survive in the over a course of a month or two months while you're waiting for a system to come and then you got to build it while the kids are in school um if the system fails and can't be repaired the um process is catastrophic is the best way I can describe it having actually live through that once and with a a boiler failure in in the winter and uh when you got to have kids in school you can't have kids in school if the temperature is below a certain certain amount I mean it's catastrophic so I I I know those these are all important discussions but there the new system can't be priced
042and installed is my understanding this summer so the new Freon system is off the table for that would take another probably four to six weeks um that's about how long it took to design this one um an En entirety so there's no other cooperatives any other schoolers around here that have SAR no we could even using a Cooperative would be the the engineering of this particular product versus the new new product and then getting that product ordered and and shipped and installed you know they really have to have everything on the ground before June because it takes them all summer to do the install and I I watch this process daily uh the year before summer before last at the primary school this is almost identical um and it's it's a comprehensive U System the
043you know they're actually installing units in each room um that are married to several rooms are married to one larger unit that's installed on the on the the roof so it's a um it's ambitious to do it over the summer anyway and if you lost any time without the actual equipment sitting on the ground ready to install the day the kids walk out um CU we we landed that Primary School job you a few days before school started so I think it's important to just know that whole scope um in addition to the fact that the unknown about this new product is is also out there in ANC can you talk a little bit about the language onten contract come for C am right yeah so basically they give us a a fee and they
044will um guarantee the quarterly and annual maintenance um service on that for that that and we did the same thing with the primary school um and you know that's that's been very beneficial because you know the the new technology that's in that compared to what we have in all other buildings is different um and they've even offered um work to to um educate our um maintenance guys on that as well send them to classes and things of that nature on the system so so that would be addition any kind ofation yeah the the system itself with the components will come with its own warranty but this would be an additional from war to provide the maintenance and the service for that for the quarterly and we included that in the primary project it's been very
045helpful and then lifespans of these are a little shorter 15 versus I think 22 uh is now what the boiler Chiller units are are going for uh somewhere in that range so you you you l a few years but the other interesting thing about and this is all stuff I learned the summer before last when looking at this this this system is uh if a unit um has issues it's Rusty or whatever you don't necessarily have to replace the whole system because you can replace individual units that service certain classrooms so they won't all fail necessarily at the same time now I think it's wise to plan on having a conversation whoever's sitting on this school board 15 years from now probably maybe more like 12 years from now talking about replacing this system as
046a whole but if you did have one fail you can go in and replace one unit that serves several class rooms or several spaces whereas with a boiler and Chiller when the boiler goes you're shocked your whole system is down because you're just pushing air colder heated air from boilers or chillers around the whole building so when it goes that there's no temporary fix or even short fix for the for the replacement but that's a good question the 15 years versus about 22 years is a is a difference other questions questions motion so the motion is going to be the subject from the email okay it's right here under a other matters make sure I'm reading the right one here does it motion to approve the reallocation that one okay all right so can I
047get a motion to approve the reallocation of capital Improvement funds 1.5 million to fund the pen High School HVAC project summer of 2025 and approve for superintendent to be allowed to enter into contract with war Mechanical group for picosen high school HVAC project summer 2025 so move Mr I have a second I'll second questions I guess just one last question just want toate that the the experts and the Consultants that have designed this have said this r410 system same yes they said you know their projections with the data they've sent 20 to 40% with the utilities and M cost on the system for and we've seen similar at Department School correct have questions car have a vote I'm just gonna go this way because I Mr Maxwell I Mr Goodell Dr hi Dr Bartlett Mr
048Claud i m Jones I Vice chairos I CH bage I pass is 70 this jours the February 24th 2025 special school board meeting woohoo Wooh thank you a quick meeting not too bad I know I'm not going to compl no that's right yeah we we're getting back on a better schedule to stay like s time