001Okay. Okay. So, we got a little interruption and we repeated. >> Uh, so 750 and limited open form is what we were talking about. >> Yes. So to be clear, Bridget, because we weren't all apparently, do you feel as an administrative team that you need a policy unlimited open form? Because if the answer to that is no, then to me the discussion's over. So the only reason I would make recommendation for policy 7410 was written by Erie one is on the back the district. its agents and employees retaining authority to ban unlawful groups maintain order and discipline protect the well-being assure attendance of students is voluntary and restrict groups that clearly and substantially afford that being said I could make a strong argument if I had an issue or if Rob had an issue with
002a group at the high school uh that the code of conduct would cover so that would be the only grounds by which I would say it affords the district greater protection beyond that no because it's all spelled out in legal regulation around limited open forum groups like they have to be student initiated, they have to be voluntary. >> That's all law. >> That's law and code of conduct would cover each of the things that I talked about like you can't engage in unlawful activity in school property. So, which means you can't have an unlawful group here something about censorship. Oh, may exercise control over styorities. I mean, I don't know if that's publication, but it holds for the activities that they do. >> I don't feel strong with either way. I'm okay with that you're
003in one language or if you feel strongly wanting to use the up the language brand proposed, but we have to have it removed by winter. So we might have a motion for the ER1 policy 7410 second. >> I'll second. >> So add first. >> Yeah. I would I would like to make sure we have a a regulation or handbook that we send out. >> So, are we keeping it 7410 or are we keeping Yes. >> 7410 student? >> Yes. And should we change the number so it goes directly under 7505 or just before 7505? I don't have a preference at this juncture. I think given that you and I have aspirational goals to align everything to area one, I wouldn't change it because ultimately we're going to end up changing it back. Okay. >> If
004one is 7410, that's what it'll be. >> Okay. >> So, we're going to keep 7505 the way it is because we just did that in September. We'll >> add 7410 the way it's written by area one first >> for first read. >> Yep. Great. >> Okay. Okay. And then the next policy add beyond section 8000s is policy 5840 which is specific to artificial intelligence. That is in the packet behind the agenda. Don't want to take any action uh this evening on that. I guess what I would respectfully ask is if you could do a pre-eread before our policy committee meeting on 3:23. And if you have questions specific to how you'd like to tighten or missing information, I would like to run that by legal prior to us meeting and having a conversation about it.
005Important to note on that policy on page two, I'm sorry, page three of four, uh, three of four gives the board the latitude to make the determination on if you're going to absolutely prohibit use of AI by students in a school district or if you're going to permit it, but with regulatory language. I am not familiar with any districts that have banned it completely. >> Is this the same one that we looked at briefly last year? >> It is. >> Then I don't have to take >> I do have a question about that. >> Okay. >> And I wouldn't I wouldn't get into >> So you know how when students search on Google they get a nice little AI summary at the top. >> Is it possible to turn that on or off? Is that
006like one of those things where it's all or none? Because there's a really good argument to have AI that part right there really undermines learning and teaching because it's so quick to pop up and get search things. Is that something we can turn off? >> I do not know. Karen, would you since you're responsible for oversight of uh technology department, would you please ask the question? You can bring it back to the next board meeting. That'd be great. >> Thank you. we can find out because there's so many great uses for it, but that particular AI is very it's a nuisance. >> The one thing I would say too is with the AI, we have several not several, we have some districts who have already taken this step into offering kids the access to AI
007so we could lean on them to see their experiences as we move forward. >> Oh, like on their dashboard they have like Gemini. >> Yeah, because Gemini Google Gemini And so they've already kind of done some of the work for us in terms of figuring out the hiccups. So if we decide to follow that path >> and that even see that seems less like a nuisance because they have to go into their app like know it's there and use it well when kids are doing research it's right there on the Google searches. So that's why I'm wondering about that. Yeah. I would just like to add that during research because of the amount of uh websites blocked generative AI is heavily relied upon in order to get the information so >> and that's the problem
008it's heavily relied upon you know what I'm saying so like it's helpful for students but it's not helpful for learning always because the skill you're practicing in research is not just to read a summary and use it take it >> so in school when you're on your Chromebooks it's typical for students then get AI view the report AI. >> Yes, it's the first thing that pops up like Google and everything. So, it's pretty >> I mean obviously if we and if we end up having a policy around AI, we'll have to be thoughtful in the regulation piece around the professional development and teach piece for students. Again, I would also argue Sarah if I think about for teachers, you know, one of the greatest recommendations I have is, you know, people like, oh, they can
009just type the whole thing and AI generates the whole report. Well, you go back to blue books. I mean, you do have control in the classroom. If you're concerned about an AI produced written piece, then you simply make sure that it has to be produced in written form and then that alleviates that from being a problem. Uh, if you're concerned about research, then you could say, okay, well, you have to use multiple resources and some of those have to be hard copy text. I mean, so there are way there are workarounds. Um, >> I guess my question gets to the peers at all or nothing. We're not going to live in the all or nothing kind of thing, but is there somewhere in between where it's like we have some access to some things but
010not all of it. I guess that's where my question is. >> And I know it's a controversial topic. I I would feel concerned if it was nothing. I feel like that would be a disservice for our students. I do think we have to prepare them for the future. The adults seated at this table, I don't I don't want to speculate that all of you are using it. I can say with confidence all of the administrators at the table are using AI probably on a daily basis. So I would I would I would I would >> the question the question is not do we block it completely but do we need all of it? That's kind of where my question is. Is there somewhere in between? So >> we put limitations on it. >> Well two
011two things in response I'm sorry Jeff. Two things in response to that. Number one has to have a third party uh what's it called? Third party >> has to meet ED law 121 part 2D. So if it doesn't meet EDL one part 1212D, then we simply don't use it and they don't have access. So like there are certainly platforms I myself have been intrigued by and Michaela said, "No, you can't use it because it's not 1212D compliant." I'm like, "Well, that stinks because I think it'd be fabulous." Um, so that's number one. Uh, and then where was I going with the substant I would only add that not all Google products are 2B compliant. Google employment is too. >> Yes. And actually that caused problems for students. I remember for Google like you couldn't use
012Google maps. I mean there were a number of um reasons why it was controversial earlier this school year in fact because we had to actually shut down some of the Google products that were not 1212D compliant. So if it's not 1212D compliant it's simply not >> nobody has access including us. I'm just curious because you know what 121 and >> do you want to take that 1212D? >> Um, sure. I can speak to the 2D compliance piece. Um, it's protects the certain uh private information of students. So, we're not sharing anything. We're not any identifiable information, personally identifiable information to students out into the public. Okay. >> Aka why we don't have a Spotify. >> Yeah. I didn't I didn't know the name but I knew what >> and if Spotify will not agree to
013protect your student privacy then we they will not enter into an agreement with us and therefore the district cannot enter into a partnership or relationship with them to have that platform. That's the reason why we don't and that's why when Google we had to shut down some of the products that was exactly for the same reason because Google wasn't willing to be 121B compliant so we had to say well then we can't use them because they're not protecting your privacy. It's interesting sometimes with block like recently my Google translator wasn't working. Sometimes my Google my Google space or maps isn't working but AI always seems to be working. So I'm just curious about the spectrum of things you can turn on and off if you will. And I'm also curious what teachers are saying in
014their classrooms about it. Just curious what the what the feel is. Not that that's guiding this, but I'm I'm curious of um defining how big the problem is or how little the problem is. >> So that might be relevant for me to have Rob, KT, and Scott uh have conversations with their instructional staff prior to developing regulation. So regulation is the execution of how we're going to administer AI. If it's the board's will and we're not prohibiting AI in the district, then it is then my role to work with the administrative team around what the regulation and when we say regulation, it's not New York State law. It's attached to board policy. I think it's a weird language nuance policy. >> Correct. It's how that's executed within the district. So I think that that would
015be worthwhile for us to just get some feedback specific to what concerns folks have around AI and that could certainly factor in to the reg regulation for the >> I see the real danger of AI in the in teaching kids to to be so dependent on it that they don't know how to critically think on their own. So AI critically thinks for them, right? What if that critic what if that AI is skewed in some way or or not? Right? So then they're getting a skewed version. and they might go to a different one that has a different skew. Like >> if we're not able to teach our kids how to critically think on their own then I mean >> I don't think we're doing what we're supposed to do. What I hear you saying
016and what I what I was listening over here is all the administration is using AI but they have that experience >> right >> and if the student they have that prior experience right students if they're learning AI from the beginning they don't then have that experience >> which is totally dependent >> right and and it didn't take all of us >> that's the difference >> long to you to learn how to use AI right >> we just used it and kids can use it probably faster than we did because it's built for their minds, right? So, to me, we don't have to teach our kids how to use it in their jobs. If they're using AI, most jobs aren't even going to care that they're using it for whatever they're doing, but we should be
017able to teach them how to critically think so that when AI comes up with something and it's like, I don't know if that's exactly right. I need to look into this more, right? Like that they have the ability to do that, but if they're using AI all the time and depending on that, they want to be able to see those things. So, but so if you ban it, how do you teach them to look at something that comes out of AI and go I should question this or I should look at another source or like how do you teach them to critically think if they've never been exposed to it? >> Well, that goes back to all of us are you have to have different sources. One source can be AI but then the next
018source has to be f but this >> from social media all the time will be like that's AI or this isn't right like they're already >> is there policy around the integration whenever we went to like onetoone >> no >> correspondence or onetoone notebooks or anything of this sort like the tech integration like really AI is a tool that's part of instruction and if you don't teach components of it I think you're not really allowing students that next step as far as what the instruction is going to look like. But it's also when you go back to like the Dewey decimal system and the car catalog in the library, we no longer use that. But I could search something in Google and it can give me six different articles that then I could go pull
019up quickly and read the articles in depth. So I'm like there's all pros and cons, but >> there are some wonderful resources out there too and how to support kids in learning about AI and how to use it responsibility. it would be on our end to responsibly roll those pieces out before we even >> I guess that's my point is if we don't I mean I've seen it happen where like anecdotally someone asks a kid uh tell me what baseball team or what baseball player has ever blah blah blah and like give me the stats and when you put it in AI which some kids do the answer you get from AI is different than the answer you get like ask the same two people the same questions to two people about a statistic which
020is fact and they got two different answers to me that's where you have to teach kids whether you Google it research it on the internet don't use AI or not it's it's no different than everything you read on the internet is not >> is learn the question so you have to teach them >> to recognize that you could have three different sources from the internet and AI and none of them may be accurate. >> But if you don't expose them to that and show them, hey, this is what if I put this question out online and on AI, I get these two answers. How do I figure out which one is accurate or correct? Then if they leave never doing that, >> how you're just assuming they'll figure it out. It's also not a part
021of most classroom learning standards that that would right because that's the first thing teachers are going to teach are the standards. That's like this other layer that the school would deem a priority. Um I know at least in my class that's not >> Critical thinking is but looking at AI and the other um sources and comparing them on a very basic level but that's not the primary standard teaching. So, like if that's what our goal is, we just have to make sure that that's what we're doing in the classrooms. You know what I'm saying? But I look forward to the regulations because currently in my experience, the benefits do not outweigh the cents, right? So, >> well, there wouldn't be regulations if you don't have a policy. Well, yeah. But I'm just saying if the
022questions we bring forward are going to be resolved in regulation, I look forward to that day because right now in the classroom, it feels like the wild west and I don't feel like the benefits outweigh the risk which is the risk of not building those fundamentals. Yeah, >> I would just like to caution that summarizing feature we were talking about earlier, and I'm going to use the same analogy as um for a question. So, um shallow that's not like a deep research question that you can easily type into AI and get an answer from um a lot of that is not accessible through the limitations of this device. I can't go into every website and pull out every source. I I can't go into most websites and pull out every source. And going into a
023database where uh the majority of like instances where you have to search up something that's not necessarily a deep research question, but something you can easily get off of AI is more convenient and easier to use than if I were to go into a database to fish out that exact detail of it. Um so if you if you take away that like feature it it really would have some repercussions towards the students. >> It I mean it really does take away that instant gratification right like before that availability you had to do the work to find answer and that's the skill right so the more we have these easy resources the less we're doing the skill building the more we're just satisfied with an instant answer and move on. Sorry, I look forward to the
024regulation >> and again that would be long. I almost said long and coming, but it certainly wouldn't be overnight. Uh we have the whole 8,000 series and again the objective would be to have Erie 1 provide the series of 8,000 regulations and then I would work with the administrative team doesn't happen overnight. >> Um around AI again I just think about our professional responsibility is to prepare students for life readiness. So it's life, career, college, military life readiness. And I do think it would be a disservice if we weren't uh making sure that our students had experience and teaching, right? So ensuring that we're embedding how to use AI responsibly. Uh you know, and you know, I appreciate something you said. I think about it as an efficiency. Often time I labor over my writing.
025I think I'm a strong writer, but I labor over my writing and oftentimes when I throw something in GPT, how efficient is that? that just saved me oodles of time. Uh that allowed for me to crank out and do something else in addition to instead of spending the couple hours it would have taken me on a communication not because I don't have the content because I labor over every word right so vigorously. >> I don't think a lot of students are laboring over a lot of their words. >> Pardon me. >> I don't think many students are laboring over a lot of their words and like they don't have as much on their plate. So like the urgency to get through it just you know we want them to labor on all their words. We
026want them to chew it up and take their time before they look to a different expert to refine their their skills. >> And again, just thinking about that balance of what the instructional delivery looks like. I think there's ways for teachers, again, if I were still in the classroom, I might be like bringing out those old blue books. Remember those. >> You're going to write your response using a blue book, >> right? And that way I can with confidence know what you're able to what you know, understand, and what you're able to do in writing. >> A lot of what you're referencing to is them actually writing. There's so many uses for AI in terms of using it as a study tool, creating quizzes for you, all these pieces that we would be pre-teaching them
027all about. you know, we can have a firm line on the right like you're not using it for writing or you know, we'll we'll determine all those things together with the teachers, but there's just there's a lot of valuable pieces that we're um that are getting lost in the conversation about right >> used it to create study guides that >> quiz each other for midterms and regions and whatever. So >> that's probably good to we can turn off what we can keep on like and just know those options because there are some ingredients about it, but there are some things that if we could easily just would be great. >> Yeah, >> I guess I I mean I I kind of think like Bridget did if I think about how do we best prepare our
028students for the world after the after high school if their peers are being taught how to use it so that they can be the most efficient employee. I as a business person view it that we are doing a disservice to them. They come out less advantaged than someone else who can walk in the door and get twice as much work done or put out a better quality piece of work because they've been taught how to do it correctly. >> I think it's just a matter of order of operation, right? Like if you're already a critical thinker, you're already somebody who can use it to refine your work to be more efficient, then you got to look up. But if you're someone who hasn't learned the skill first and you're using it, >> well, that's why
029I think you can teach them both. >> You need to teach them to critically think, but you also need to teach them to use these tools because they're going to be out there when they're looking in the world. Ronan, I am struggling to come up with a phrase. When you are learning about research and you would have gone to the library and you're looking at articles and you're looking at books and the librarian and or your English teacher would have talked to you about vetting your sources and that's the word I would use. There's a different term for that. Like look at the reliability of the sources that you're including in your research. There's a different term for that. >> It's not coming to you either. >> Wait, we say that again. Well, I think
030it's important to know like what you're talking about is really no different than when we're thinking about other sources. So whether it was articles, literature, books, I mean, we really do have a responsibility to make sure that they're questioning the reliability, the bias in all of those different types of sources. To your point, we absolutely should be teaching them to be looking critically at anything that's generated by AI as well. And that is part of library standards. So I'm thinking about like the relationship between librarian and our English classes who are doing that work with our students. To your point, I don't know that it's necessarily going to jump out many of the other >> K12. >> It's 5:30 just to let everyone know. >> Bridget, I have a question. So I know you want
031us to look at the 5840 policy for the next meeting. Is the intent because that's obviously under the 5,000 series for 81. Was the intent to do something with that this year or to have it ready for when we do our 5000s next year? >> I'll share the openly. I went to and it's going to be part of my report, but I went to a compelling session at Niscus this weekend on artificial intelligence and cyber safety. And we are very strongly encouraged to have some type of policy. Where it's problematic for the district is where you haven't had policy and you haven't spelled out what's permissible and what's not. and then you have a problem and you have no policy by which to um hold folks accountable as necessary. So, so it would be my
032hope that we could potentially land on an agreed upon policy before next year in this just because >> it's it's up the genie out there. >> I just wanted to understand >> there's a genie was there. >> There is a genie. >> I love genie. >> Do you remember that show? >> I do. >> Air Force. >> Okay. So now we need to address >> I'm sorry. So the homework would be if you could send me any questions or concerns or how you'd like to tighten in particular areas. What I'd like to do is actually send that off to legal so before we meet the next time on 323 I could already have that for you with some type of a draft. >> Okay. >> I motion to all in >> favor I All that
033I can think of