001Good evening. I'd You can tell it's summer. People are more talkative. I'd like to call this meeting of the board of education on June 16, 2025 to order. Mr. Drew, roll call, please. Mr. Bennington, here. Miss Lmer here. Miss Minky. Mr. Anderson. Miss Roland Miller here. If we could please stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. So, we welcome you this evening to the Commodore Building. Um, we thank you for attending the meeting. Since we care about the safety of our students, staff, families, and guests, we want to note that there are exits on multiple sides of this room. Um, in case of an emergency,
002there is an AED just outside the cafeteria doors. If you need to call emergency personnel and need the address, it's 140 East Indiana Avenue. Item number two is our agenda. There was one addition to the proposed agenda um 185 to schedule a special meeting of the board. Um with the amend that amendment to the agenda, I'd like a motion to approve the amended agenda. Second. Miss Lmer, Mr. Bennington. Mr. Jurro, roll call, please. Miss Lammer, yes. Mr. Bennington, yes. Mr. Anderson, yes. Miss Roland Miller, yes. And our next item of business is three in our board of education recognitions. And I'll turn it over to Mr. Hustler. Well, thank you very much. Um, today we have uh I know it's uh it's June. It doesn't feel like June yet, although it's getting to to be
003that way, but we had some uh some great accomplishments uh that that were um that that are needing to be recognized uh this by by this board. So, uh, we have actual two teams, um, that we'll be recognizing or three three three two sports, three teams. And then we also have a junior high team that we'll be recognizing next month. So, but, uh, we want to begin with our state qualifiers. Um, and that would be, uh, starting with the, uh, boys and girls track programs. So, I'd like to introduce um coach John Mannheim um our girls uh track coach to come up and also uh Matt Gossus, our head boys track coach. Let me take a few moments to introduce the state qualifiers from the program. Thank you, gentlemen. Okay, first of all, I want
004to thank the board for the opportunity to recognize these athletes. I'm short a few tonight. Uh our our 4x800 relay team finished fourth in the state and if you finish in the top eight, you're considered all Ohio. So there were 185 4x8 teams that started the season and they they finished the season as the fourth best. And they were they were certainly in the running for um they they could have won that day as well. That's that's how competitive they were. But we're missing two of our athletes. Kayn Beckan. She's in Spain with some other Parisburg students furthering her education and trying to reduce some Spanish classes that she might have to take at the high school. Um, and Natalie Sanders is uh at orientation today. She's going to be attending the University of Chicago
005at Illinois and UIC I think is what they call it. But she is uh she is there today. But I do have two members of that team here and I'll I'll bring the first one up. Laura Vallet. Laura, if you could make your way up. Got a few few things to say about Laura. Laura was our lead leg. So, she led off the relay. And I've always believed in 31 years of coaching that you got to have someone leading off that that can keep you in the race. At that level, if you're not in the race after the first leg, it's real tough to to get in the in the race. and she certainly did that for us. She was third or fourth through the first two laps when she handed handed the baton off
006and we were we were in a great position. Laura had an incredible senior season. She came narrowly close to breaking the school record in the 400 which is a record that's stood for over 12 years. She was awfully close to that. She's going to be attending college at the University of Cal Cal Berkeley. Is that is that what they call it? Okay. Cal Berkeley. Yeah. Pretty impressive. Uh she's someone that totally took advantage of the Parisburg school experience. She was the saludiatoran and she excelled on the cross country and uh and in track and field. So Laura Vellette, a heck of a career. And you can just uh you can just stay here and because I'm sure they'll want pictures with you and Ava. And next up, Ava Beaks. Ava, you can start coming on
007up. Ava was our anchor. So lore led off and anchor and our anchor was was Ava. And I'm a firm believer that your anchor has to be someone that's willing to to fight and willing to to battle as hard as anyone. And and and Ava certainly has that characteristic. She also made it in the 1600. So as an individual, the 1600, some people call it the mile. It's just a tad short of the mile, but she finished ninth there. So, she missed all Ohio status by by one place. But for those of you that know anything about running, she ran under five minutes this year multiple times. 456. Was that the ultimate? 4. There might be one. There's probably one person in this room that can do that, and that's uh Anthony Clark. The rest
008of us nowhere close. Um most of us would struggle to break 10 minutes. Truly. Um Mr. Hasser, he could throw down probably a 7 and 1/2 minute mile. But anyways, Ava Ava's ending her career and I I've been coaching here for 16 years and we've had some really really impressive female distance runners, but I can firmly say that she's the most decorated distance runner we've had in the program. She holds a school record in cross country. She's run in the 17-minute range for cross country and she this year broke the school record in the 1600 and she broke the school record in the 3200 and and crazy story about the 3200. She ran it once in her high school career once and she shattered the school record. So she's she's crazy talented. She will be
009firstation and running career at OU. And both of these young ladies were were part of the best four years in in cross country and track and field at Parisburg High School. So congratulations to both of them. Stay up here. Yes, please stay up here. I gota move this up a little bit. Uh but it is hard to follow the legend of John Minheim. Uh he's been in the business almost as long as Hall but not quite. So today for the boys track team, we are missing a couple people. Uh Terry Cooper could not be here. Uh he was a member of the 4x1 team. He was our anchor. He was one of those guys that you put him in the right spot. He has four guys to go hop down and he will run them
010down and win. He was definitely an exceptional talent. He has graduated and will be attending um the Air Force. So, he's joining them. Um he ended up in the times that are listed on the board minutes there from the regional. Uh he ran a 21.8 in his final 200. Uh which running 21 in the 200, it's amazing. was fantastic. Um, he did great job. He finished 14th in the state. Also, we do not have Brody Balman here. Brody Balman, as many of you know, whatever he does, he just excels at. Um, so a member of the state wrestling team and everything. Um, which prior commitments from wrestling and whatnot has kept him away from us today. Um, but still, he ran the 800. um in the 800. He finished his last 800 this year running
011a 155. Um to give you an idea of the how tight a race is, uh really between first and eighth place was less than a second. Uh first and 16th place was basically two seconds. So that's two times around the track, which is quite impressive to have that tight of a group. Um he has had some amazing races in the past. his regional race. Um, it looked like he was going to get boxed in and not qualify for states. Um, and I asked him how he did it. He said, "Well, I just use a little wrestling move to use a forearm shiver and made it through." I was like, "Okay, that works." You know, whatever you need to do to make states, we do. Um, the 4x1 team, uh, so I have three of the
012members. I'll ask all three of them to come stand up here. So we have Dominic Gibson, Chris Pertie, and Quinn Dorsick. [Applause] So the 4x1 um relays, they are my favorite. Uh they are the most fun event to watch. No matter if you're running a 4x8, 4x1, 4x2, 4x mile, uh they are the most competitive. Um, and you can see uh which teams really have like a lot of the top dogs, right? So, some teams can have one that's really good. Um, but when you make state, you definitely have four. So, starting off here, we have John Gibson. Uh, he is our leadoff. Uh, just as John Minheind said, uh, you need someone that's going to take you out and win that lead. And Dominic here, he he is the best at the starts. Uh
013there's no one better on our team at getting out of the blocks. He always gets us the lead uh to that first handoff which he well ended up handing off to Quinton. Quinton. Um one thing about Quinton, I keep on ragging on him a little bit because I would like him to do some indoor track to make sure that he gets in shape a little bit sooner. But as soon as he gets into shape, he's always right on the 4x1. He is always competing at the highest level. And uh he gets the hand off over to Chris Pertie. Um Chris Pertie, he does a very good job. He is my most trusted athlete. Um people don't realize how hard it is in a 4x1. How you have 30 meters to get a stick exchange. You
014think 30 meters? Well, that's a long time. when you're running like 10 nines in 100, it's not a lot of time. Okay. So, he is one that this entire season he never missed a handoff and he always did his job getting it to our anchor uh quick enough so that we can go through and make it to states. Um, also I do want to make mention of our alternates. Um, we had two alternates, uh, Jaden Verel, Darion Johnson. Both of them were very important to us this year. Uh because Dominic carry he had a little groin injury. So that happened um in the 4x two at districts and the 4x1 goes after that. So we had to have Jaden Veril fill in for Dominic and well he he allowed us to go on to regionals.
015Okay. Then Darion at regionals, well, I gave him the shot to start in place and he was able to allow us to get to uh finals at regionals and then gave him enough time to heal up so we can get that extra uh little bit of time. Yeah. And then uh just make it on to state. So, one thing I have to stress is that, you know, a lot of people see track as being an individual sport. The team matters most. Okay? So, everyone like everyone on my relay I used. Um, also this year our 4x1 did break the school record. So, we ran a 42.53 58 58 58. Um, so that's another record. Last year we broke the le record record also. Uh, so we were able to do that with a little bit
016different group. Okay, [Music] next up we have Anthony Clark. [Applause] Anthony Clark, uh, I don't know, as soon as he came in as a freshman, I you could tell that he was going to be a stellar athlete. Um he has been top in cross country and distance on track for us all four years. Um when we look at Anthony he has that perfect build for a distance runner. Uh this year for states he uh finished with his 3200 at 922. Um, which if you think about that, I mean, in essence, he's running basically 430s, 440 miles, uh, for 2 miles, which if you try and go out and run a 430 mile, I mean, I would die. I've never been a great distance runner. Uh, I've been always a sprinter more than anything. Um but
017still um when we um look at Anthony Clark, he has had a lot of achievements um for indoor track. He was at the indoor state meet. He also has competed in the 5,000 meter um which has always put down fantastic times. Um your best time in the 3200 was what a 9:15 916. Sorry, I was trying to make it look a little bit better. Um, but Anthony is going to be continuing his running career over at John Hopkins, and we look forward to seeing what he does there. And that's who we have for our states. Do a quick picture. Ladies, there's seats up here if you want to have a seat. [Music] [Applause] So, next we're recognizing a team that um their season just ended um not all that long ago. So, that's a very
018good thing, but probably still a little salty about that. So, but we're very excited that they're here to be recognized and I hope as as time goes on that they're able to appreciate another fantastic run uh a second year in a row appearance in in the Final Four in baseball. Um and uh and so so we're excited to recognize our our uh baseball team and Coach Hall, we'll ask you to step up and introduce your team. Come on up, guys. We have about half our kids here. Um, some guys are umpiring already. Uh, some guys are at work, some guys are at basketball camp. Um, assistant coaches are doing other things already. Um, I'm going to have the kids each introduce themselves and then I'll talk a little bit about the the year. They'll name
019their say their name and their position. Uh Preston Ferris and I'm a pitcher and first baseman. Uh I'm Brena La Point and I catch Tyler Palmer and I was a pitcher and first baseman. Landon Winters, left field. Aaron Crowley, pitcher. Uh Ryan Reig, second baseman catcher. Braxton Meford, uh, center field. Noah Lindseay, shortstop. Owen me outfield. Asher Latimore, catcher. Ben Miller, infield. Hey, these were part of our se. We had 17 guys in the varsity. We had three players that were injured, but were with us most of the year. Uh, we went 23 and eight. It was the second time or the fourth time in school history that uh we made it to the final four back-to-back years, which is incredibly hard to do. And I told the kids the other day on Saturday when
020we got beat that they'll appreciate in five years how tough it is to go back to back. It's really, really hard to do. I've been doing this for a long time. To get there four times is really difficult. So, they should be very, very proud of what they did. This is a team uh from the day go. We had injuries. We had kids step in. I don't know how many different combination of lineups we used this year until we found some people in the right combinations. We had guys step up um and and do some amazing things to to do some things. We relied on pitching and defense. I think I look back today, we hit 234 in the tournament games, but our ERA was like under two and we didn't make errors. Um, like
021last year, we we struggled for a week. At one point last year, we uh had a a come to Jesus moment, so to speak. And this year, we had a week like that. We were 0 and4. We lost to the people across the river who we will never mention. Um, we lost to Clay. We lost to another team in the state final four and then we ride at the ship and all the TV guys were going, "Did you yell at him this year because they knew I did last year." I go, "No, we just reasoned with them. They knew what they had to do. They turned around. They won nine out of their last 10 games. Um, our last week, our last two weeks, we had overloaded, backloaded our schedule. We played seven teams that
022made it to the regionals in the last two weeks to get us ready. We ended up playing five of the teams that we played this year made it to the state final four in their divisions. So, we really beefed up the schedule. I don't know if anybody's ever played a tougher schedule than these guys. Um, but they played together. I think they had fun. Um, we had a couple kids that maybe were a little bit better than the others as far as stats are concerned, but uh, we really didn't concern ourselves with this. We pitched by committee. We had three really good pitchers and Aaron Banks, Tyler Palmer, and um Preston Ferris, AJ Crowley threw well for us. Petty's threw well for us. Um you know, we didn't have many complete games. We just pitched
023by committee. We had different guys step up and hit. Um got runs when we needed to and and they just did a a very very good job. And um we'd just like to thank you for recognizing us and hopefully a three Pete would be nice. Good. Thanks. No, you got No, no, you got it. There. Now they like each other. Smile. [Applause] As a former runner, I'm someone that always winces a little bit when people talk about team versus individual sports because I do believe track is a team sport and how you support one another. But I think what the baseball team pulled out this year of of coming together, I've been reading I've been following y'all in the Sentinel Tribune and there's been some great stories about kind of coming up from behind. So
024I think how how you support one another, how your parents support you, the the room that's filled here with filled here with parents, um congratulations, great teamwork, and we are expecting to see you back again next year. All right, at this time we will take a fivem minute break, which gives people who want to leave a gracious exit. Um we will have uh public comment if there are any people signed up after this, but we will take a fiveminut break at 608. We will come back at 6:13. I'm going to call us back to order. We are at the time for public comment. Um, I'll invite uh we do have one person signed up who I'll invite to come to the microphone to speak. We ask that you share your name, address um if appropriate,
025group affiliation. Uh each person is has a maximum of three minutes to speak per policy. Um Miss Clark, we're going to ask you to the middle the middle microphone. Yep. So you can speak directly to us because you're speaking directly to us. Um these are comments on business items um that we will be discussing or acting upon. And Miss Clark, you've signed up for uh on 6.1 related determination problems uh process for public employees. So yep. So um I'm Nikki Clark. I'm on um Saddle Horn Drive. Um a parent of the the junior well going into high school now. Um and can you give your full address including your street? The one that's written there 24930. Saddle horn. You wrote Oh, sorry. Yep. 24930. Um, good evening. I'm here tonight to share a statement that
026reflects concerns raised by multiple community members, including individuals directly impacted by recent events in the district. These are not just my personal thoughts. They represent a shared call for transparency, accountability, and ethical leadership. Tonight's presentation on employee termination comes at a time when the district is also facing urgent challenges, including the difficulty of retaining qualified staff to support students. In this context, it's fair to ask how decisions are being prioritized and whether the balance between legal process and a workforce well-being is where it should be. When legal strategy starts to outweigh support for staff, it can give the impression, right or wrong, that the district is more focused on protecting itself than in serving its people. It is also worth noting that tonight's presenter, an attorney from SC Scott LLP, represents the same firm that
027has advised the district in recent internal matters involving staff conduct, student safety, and employee discipline. that continuity may seem efficient, but it raises fair questions about neutrality and oversight. When the same legal voices influence internal outcomes and later train the board on how to manage or justify those outcomes, it becomes hard to view those presentations as entirely impartial. In recent months, the district has used restrictive settlement language and confidentiality provisions that even if technically legal, don't sit well with many in the community. These tactics do not build trust. They breed suspicion. And when the public is left with more secrecy than answers, confidence in leadership erodess. So I ask this board to reflect honestly who benefits from this particular attorney giving the presentation. Are we building long-term trust or just managing short-term risk? Are we
028choosing what's ethical or just what's legally defensible? Because the law is the floor, not the goal. Our students, staff, and families deserve leadership that aims for ethical ceilings. Ethical leadership begins with one question. what is the right thing to do, not just what can we get away with. Please consider that message is being sent tonight and let that message be one of courage, integrity, and public trust. Thank you. Thank you. We have no other people that have signed up for public comment. So, at this time, we will move to item six, presentation on legal matters. Um, Mr. Hustler, did you want to introduce me? So, um, with us we have Julia Bower, who is an attorney who specializes in school law. Um, she works with, um, several districts throughout the state. And we understand that
029there have been some, um, um, questions that have come up in terms of the process that that school districts must follow when it comes time to discuss discipline and and termination. And um and you know this question has been something that the community has you know asked about. It's um a question that um is not that easily explained in in terms of well why do districts respond this particular way or that particular way when something happens. And we wanted to take a moment to to do kind of a um a mile high view of what are the laws that govern because one of the things that we heard throughout, you know, conversations and we really leaned into conversations about staff and discipline. And one of the things that we heard were statements like if this
030were my company, this is how we would handle these things. And it's really from that piece, that conversation that led us to, well, how do we explain the differences between what happens in your company and what has to happen in a in a school setting? It's it's a fair question and it's one that we've spent a lot of time kind of discussing and we felt that it would be very helpful to have someone come in and explain that difference because it has been a question we've heard from the community and and we're reacting to that feedback. So, we appreciate the time that you have uh you know today and um want to share with you the the presentation and um we're grateful that you're here this evening. So, welcome. Thanks, Tom. Good evening, board members.
031I'm happy to be here to talk to you this evening. Obviously, we are in public session, so the communications that we are going to have right now are not subject to the attorney client privilege. Um, so I'm not going to address any of the particular situations that have come up, but I um in conversation with Tom uh or Mr. Hassor, we've had a conversation about let's talk about the big picture. What does the process look like? um how uh is the statute uh structured so that you guys have a sense of what it takes when it comes to teacher termination in Ohio. Um and so I'm going to focus mostly on kind of general information, some cases and give you some trends so that you have a sense of where um the case law is
032when it comes to termination. Um I'm I have been with Scott Scriven now for 17 years, 18 years. um our and before that I was with the Ohio School Boards Association with many of you have maybe gone to some trainings through them. Um so I've been doing school law for 20 years. Um I've worked with actually this district I looked up today. My first email with Mr. Hustler was in 2013. So it's been a it's been 12 years of um a good relationship um working with the district and helping to navigate complex legal issues including collective bargaining and labor and employment matters. Um if you could move next. Yeah, perfect. Um so we're going to talk about at will versus contract employment today. We're going to talk about the teacher termination process, some of the
033challenges to that process. Um some collateral issues and costs and then some accountability and alternatives to termination. So let's start with atill employment. Um at will employment is when the employer and the employee um can terminate employment at any time um with some exceptions for any lawful reason. And so most private sector employment in Ohio is going to be at will. Um and so the burden of uh termination is pretty low in an atill scenario. Um contrast that with contract employment which is the status for almost every school employee is going to have an employment contract of some sort. Even substitute employees have employment contracts. Um, and those contracts restrict the employer and the employees ability to terminate the employment relationship um, subject to the terms of the contract and then in some instances subject
034to the terms of the statute. Um, so with with just a few exceptions, like I said, most school employees are going to be subject to those contract uh, requirements. We're going to spend a lot of time talking today about the Ohio Revised Code section 331916, which is the teacher termination statute. But I will point that out that that statute actually applies to a broader group than just teachers. That applies to all administrators. It implies to your speech language pathologists, your other certified employees in the district. Um, and it also applies to um the superintendent and the treasurer. Um, coaches. Uh so lots and lots of different types of employees are covered by this statute although it really is considered to be the teacher termination statute. Um and so basically that statute says that in order
035to terminate the contract of an employee you need to have good and just cause and good and just cause does not have a a definition in the statute. It is defined over time on a case-byase basis taking into account the totality of the circumstances. The courts have said it is a relatively high hurdle. You will hear sometimes that it was an arbitrator decision or a hearing officer decision will say this is the economic death penalty. This is a career ender when you terminate someone. And so it needs to be a fairly serious matter. It needs to be something significant, not minor misconduct. And the standard basically from a a hearing officer and a court's perspective is you need to be able to prove that the alleged conduct happened. But then you also need to be
036able to prove that the substance of that conduct is so significant that it merits termination. So it's almost a two-step process there. We have to prove the facts and then we also have to prove the significance of those facts. So I have a couple of case studies for you. I'm going to give you a quiz and we'll see if anybody wants to volunteer. Um but uh I I've changed the names here to initials just to uh protect the individuals involved. Um so PT was a teacher at Dayton Public from 20 um 2003 to 2016 serving as an intervention specialist in the 1516 school year. She actually was uh disciplined for misconduct. So suspended for 10 days um which is a pretty significant suspension that's usually viewed as a precursor to termination. um and she was
037assigned to teach a new life skills class. After the administrators went in and observed her in the classroom, they determined she's not doing the essential functions of the classroom teacher. She's not teaching these students this course. Um she's not cooperating with building administrators and other staff who are trying to get her to assist uh or or trying to assist her in meeting her job responsibilities. She called a fellow staff member a devil and criticized them. And then she also failed to provide interimm grades and third quarter grades for her students. So at that point, the board takes the step to initiate termination for those four things that are listed there in the bullet points. So what do you think? Do we have good and just cause? Any anyone willing to jump guess? Well, I I
038feel like we're we're supposed to say no. I mean, it sounds like that would be a good cause, right, to terminate, but I'm I feel like I'm being set up. So fair fair point. Um so if you go to the next slide, Tom, here's what the hearing officer said. He said that um either the district did not prove the facts or did not prove the significance of the facts for those first three things. So the failure to perform the essential functions, the hearing officer said, "Yeah, she tried to get help, but they never helped her, and it really wasn't her fault she wasn't doing the things she was supposed to be doing." And so and it was a new class, and she wasn't really given enough guidance or support. And so we're not going to
039find that to be good and just cause. Same with the building administrators um not accepting the the help of the people who are reaching out to help her. And the same with the devil in the criticism comment. Um but what the hearing officer did say is that failure to complete interimm grades and failure to complete thirdarter grades was good and just cause. So he threw everything out but the grades. Ultimately that was appealed to a trial court. So a court of common please and then finally to an appeals court um which was ultimately affirmed. And so you see you can see there the case um so you can see a hearing officer uh their judgment oftentimes will be deferred to by the higher courts. Um but they certainly have the ability to reverse a decision
040if they want to. Let's move to the next one. So this is DF. She was a kindergarten teacher for 17 years. So a long-term employee. She had consistently received high ratings for her job performance and she had no previous disciplinary issues. In 2017, she had a student, a kindergarten student, so five, six-year-old, who was having escalating behaviors and was engaging in some refusal behavior and decided to just sit down in the hallway and would not move, would not return to class. So, she actually dragged the student, and I'm using the words that they use in the court case. She dragged the student by his arm down the hallway to her classroom 126 feet. What do we think? Good and just cause that one. Not as much ambiguity. Dragged 126 feet, you would think. But let's
041go to the next slide. So, that's the hearing officer's decision. Yes, there was good and just cause, but the Court of Common please in Cincinnati reversed it and said that that teacher should be reinstated with back pay and they found basically she's a long-term employee. There had been no prior discipline. There had been no prior issues. She had good ratings on her evaluations and was otherwise well regarded as a teacher and the student wasn't injured and they found that to be very persuasive. Julia, how long for like this case study, how long did it actually take to get this far? um that I think well in 2017 is when termination was initiated and you can see that the decision there is a 2020 case so three years. So certainly um she would have received some
042significant award of back pay at the trial court level because by that point in time she probably had been gone for at least a year if not longer. Next one please. So this is a an interesting case of moonlighting. So, this teacher was accused of uh falsifying sick leave and was required to meet with some administrators regarding the excessive nature of her sick leave. She was a science teacher in teaching advanced science courses and the district was having trouble finding qualified substitutes to take her classes during her excessive absences. And uh throughout the process, they find out that she was teaching at a local college. Lots and lots of teachers were doing that in the area. It was very common to teach a a community college class in the evenings. Um, but they noticed that
043the pattern of her sick leave was often the day of her class and the day after. And so they said, you know, it looks like you're taking off time to prep for your evening class and then taking off time the next day to prep. We're concerned that this is a pattern of sick leave abuse. And so she said, actually, I didn't teach at the community college on those four nights. I actually called off there, too. So the district actually investigated and said, "No, she didn't. She never called off. She didn't show up and she didn't teach like she was required to teach, but she didn't actually call off. So, she was actually paid to teach at a community college on an hourly basis when she was not actually there. And so, they actually initiated the
044process to terminate her because of the misconduct at her second job. Um, so what do you think about that one? I think I think she should have been terminated because you can prove where she was. she can prove where she wasn't and obviously it's affecting the students for her not being there, right? And the and the community college was a public college. So she was accepting public money for work that she never performed depend on the college. And so that was what the hearing officer determined. It was good and just cause. So this one, this one I think is a closer case. You could see this one going the other way. It's a job that is is not her primary position. Had nothing to do with her teaching role at the school. um other than
045the fact that the that sick leave pattern um but the ultimately the hearing officer did find good and just cause here and there were no further appeals in this case. So I think what that can show you is that you can when you're looking at a standard that is somewhat vague and evolves over time on a case-byase basis you have some amount of subjectivity and some risk that someone will not see it the same way that the administration does or the same way that the board does. Um there are some general trends that we can pull out from the statute and the case law. And so one of them is the next slide, Tom. It is um committing crimes related to school activity. So typically speaking, when somebody is charged with and convicted of a
046crime that is related to school activity, that is going to be good and just cause. Now, what's interesting about this is that there's a time component associated with many of these cases. So oftentimes by the time these cases reach a court of appeals level, which I think actually three of the four of those are court of appeals levels, we often know how the criminal process has played out, whether that person was found guilty or whether they have plead guilty. And so um on the front end, when there is a crime committed or a crime alleged, it can be difficult to know how that is ultimately going to resolve itself. Um because under the criminal process, you are innocent until proven guilty. Um, and so there is definitely a time lag that gets involved sometimes with
047some of these cases, but you can see inappropriate um, sexual misconduct with students, failure to report known or suspected abuse, driving under the influence when it's tied to some school activity. Um, all have been found to be good and just cause. Um, the conduct does need to be related back to school activity generally from the court's perspective. So you see the last case there, failure to stop at a minor vehicle accident and being cited for the traffic crime associated with that was found not to be sufficient grounds. Another big trend is insubordination. So when we have willful disobedience of or refusal to obey a reasonable and valid rule that can um very frequently lead to a finding of good and just cause. Typically what we want to see is written directives, written rules, something in
048writing saying do not do this exact thing and then the person willfully does the exact thing. Um, and so that um is good evidence that you would want in uh an insubordination case. Um, so I've got a couple examples of insubordination cases up there. Um, including the Freshwater case that now it's been 10 12 years. It's not as prominent in people's minds as it was, but that case dragged on for many, many years. Um, and there was a lot of uh um media coverage of that case, though people are often familiar with it. But ultimately what uh was the the the thing that uh tripped up Mr. Freshwater was failing to abide by the specific directives that he was given to do some of the things that he uh felt that he had the first
049amendment right to do. The next one is academic misconduct. So when we have evidence of a ac academic misconduct, so giving students answers on tests, um repeatedly failing to administer standardized tests properly, um and then also failing to provide grades um that were due for graduating seniors or all these cases. So, another grades case, um, any of those types of academic misconduct that's so central to what a teacher is required to do, um, that those tend to be found to be good and just cause. As I mentioned before, there's a great deal of subjectivity with these standards. Um, so I put some examples here where there's cases that have been found to lack good and just cause. So, a teacher falsifies sick leave, claiming to be ill while actually on a family vacation. Um, mishandling
050public money with regard to the athletic concession and yearbook funds. Um, actually viewing sexually explicit content on a laptop was found not to be good and just cause. Um, and another scenario where a teacher left a classroom and while the teacher was gone and not observing the students, one student assaulted another and um, I believe actually caused that student to pass out. So, it was a pretty significant assault. Um, and that teacher was found to have made essentially an innocent mistake of walking out the room. How would that teacher have possibly known that that was going to happen while they were gone was basically the gist of that case. Um, so none no good and just cause for all of those cases. So, I wanted to give you just kind of a sample of some
051of the substantive trends and also some of the examples of some places where it seems like maybe it should have been good and just cause and it wasn't. Um and then also some examples that are kind of on the other side where we have minor misconduct in that moonlighting job which seems not as significant as some of the other things that we've talked about. Um now I'm going to talk about what the process looks like. Um so termination under the statute is required to follow a very strict path. The very first thing that happens is the employee is given notice of the allegations against them and an opportunity to respond in a predisiplinary meeting with the administration. Then after that, there is a board resolution that has to be adopted in public session that outlines
052the specifics of what the teacher is accused of doing. After that board uh adopted resolution, the teacher can then request a hearing either before the board or a referee. Um and the referee would be appointed by the Ohio Department of Education and uh workforce. After that demand, then the hearing is supposed to happen within 30 days. It never happens that quickly um just given everyone's schedules um and sometimes it's 30 days before we even know who the hearing officer appointed by the Ohio Department of Education and Workforc is um then the uh hearing occurs and um at that hearing the board has to provide a court reporter and a transcript as part of the the statute. So, they have to pay for that court reporter. They have to pay for the hearing officer's time, which
053the hearing officers um the referees appointed by the Ohio Department of Education are attorneys who are in private practice who do this kind of work and hold administrative hearings on behalf of the department. Um the hearing witnesses have to be called because like I said, we have the burden of proof as the school district to prove the facts. So, we have to bring in witnesses to demonstrate that the factual allegations are true. And then there are post-hering briefs that are submitted describing the the conduct and the legal standards and why the standard meets the termination standard. Ultimately, there's a decision from the hearing officer through the referee. And that decision um comes back to the board to either accept or reject. You either accept the recommendations of the referee. And then if you do um
054and the referee recommends that the person not be terminated, then they are reinstated with back pay. um and the record of that decision is actually expuned under the statute. If the board disagrees with the findings of the hearing officer, then they adopt a second public resolution outlining all of the reasons why the board disagrees with the hearing officer's decision and that then becomes the final order of termination. That process itself can take 9 to 12 months. Um and then at that point in time once that final order is issued by the board it can be appealed to the court of common please which is the lowest trial court level in our court system in Ohio. That decision can then be appealed to the court of appeals which is the second uh level and then ultimately
055to the Ohio Supreme Court. Um so as you can imagine that can be a lengthy process. some of the challenges that uh districts have with this process. Um one like I said the burden of proof is on the board. So you have to prove your case by prepundonderance of substantial reliable and proive evidence. That means we have to have witnesses. We have to have evidence. Um one of the most challenging things from my perspective is child witnesses. I never want to put a child in a position of having to be cross-examined by counsel for the um employee if I can avoid it. Um that's a really really tough position particularly a vulnerable student who has been through something difficult. Um that is uh something that always is in the back of our mind when we're
056thinking about do we want to go forward with this process. Um the other piece of it is if a family decides that they don't want their child to participate then we would have to go get a subpoena to force that child to testify which again is not a position um you guys you guys are in public education not because you want to do that to children. I'm an attorney representing uh public education entities and I don't want to do that either if we can avoid it. Um witness credibility is another thing that happens. Um some witnesses are incredibly effective when you're in a prep room meeting with them and talking with them about what happened and then as soon as you get it on the record in a court setting with a hearing officer or
057a judge if you're at the appeal stage, they become less credible. Their story becomes less convincing. They forget things because it's a challenge to have to testify in these situations. Um the other thing that is a challenge for districts too is it's just time a time commitment. Um there is a public hearing option under this process where the board would actually have to do the hearing. Um which can be incredibly time consuming. Um and I note up there that the freshwater hearing involved 38 days of witness testimony. Um so just to give you a sense of how involved some of these cases can be um and the length of time and effort that goes into them. documentation. I mentioned before with insubordination, we typically want to have um documentation. We also want to have progressive
058discipline if we have it. Um like I mentioned in that other case earlier about the teacher who dragged the student, the um the hearing officer and the court went to great lengths to say she's a good teacher. She's well regarded. She's well evaluated. She's had no other disciplinary action. And so I think those things matter when you're talking about something that can end a career um to many many hearing officers and judges. There's procedural hurdles. We have rules of evidence and rules of civil procedure that could determine what evidence gets in. Um and then ultimately it is a very lengthy process as Mr. Der pointed out there. Freshwater was seven years. Um the cats v Maple Heist case was the one where the teacher falsified sick leaf that was four years to complete. Um and
059then Spellellar was one of the other examples I gave was three and a half years up to the court of appeals level. I think the last challenge we have um is just the general unpredictability of the person making the decision. Um because the standard is an evolving standard and is determined on a case- by case basis. Um when there are close cases, reasonable minds can disagree. Um certainly reasonable minds if there is one person saying something happened and the other person saying no it didn't ultimately a hearing officer in a court are going to decide who's telling the truth in those scenarios. Um so when you have disputed facts you always have the possibility that one person will be believed and the other person not. Um and so there's always the possibility of reasonable minds
060varying and then you also have the possibility that you have one decision at one level that gets overturned at another. um because again reasonable minds can disagree about the outcome. With uh contested teacher terminations, we typically have collateral legal claims that come along with that. So once somebody has decided that they would prefer to fight back and and go through the hearing process knowing it's just as ownorous and lengthy on their side as it is on the board's side, oftentimes they are um wanting to redeem their reputation or they're wanting to redeem themselves and they will file a a claim for defamation. Um there's two board uh adopted resolutions that are part of this process and so they will say that the board defamed them in one of those resolutions. you are a government entity
061and so you have all kinds of constitutional claims that can be made um including procedural and substantive due process, wrongful termination, unemployment claims typically come with this. Um then we just have various procedural claims that can be made about uh violations of the statute or the unlawful reduction in salary by putting somebody on a a unpaid suspension. Discrimination, retaliation, breach of contract, um malicious breach of contract, uh breach of the duty to report. They will often attach a defamation to the report that gets made to the state about the misconduct. Um and then oftentimes grievances as well. So we are fighting on multiple fronts whenever these um claims are actually contested typically. Finally costs um legal fees for the termination and any collateral legal claims. Sometimes there is insurance coverage for that. Sometimes there is
062not. Um as I mentioned by statute the bulk of the costs of that initial hearing are borne by the board. So the cost of the hearing officer, the cost of the transcript. Um the other big thing that comes with all of this is backay. And so if you take the two steps to start the termination process and have somebody on an unpaid suspension pending the outcome of that termination process, they are acrewing a back pay from the first day that they're unpaid. And so if it ultimately there is a decision later on in the process, they reinstatement with back pay is the outcome. There is an existing accountability system in the state. Um because I often hear, you know, if we don't take this step, people won't know that this happened. And the state has
063taken care of that. And by and large with a new, I guess it's not new, it's from 2008, an accountability system that uh requires school districts, boards of education, administrators to report educators who engage in misconduct or engage in criminal activity. And so the next slide talks about the various different points at which there is a duty on the board or the administration to report. So it's whenever somebody has committed a criminal offense and there's been actually a court finding about that. Um whenever the board initiates termination or a non-renewal based on somebody committing what's known to be conduct and becoming the education profession. If an employee resigns or retire because that is threatened. So we are going to terminate you unless you resign. Um and same with during an investigation into conduct and becoming.
064And finally, they just added in the last two years this um substitute removal process. If somebody is removed from your eligible list, they have to be reported. And when an employee is arrested, indicted or summoned for certain crimes, you have a duty to suspend them from all duties involving the care, custody, and control of children and then a duty to report that. So this accountability system has made significant changes in the process of holding educators accountable, making sure that future employers are aware of the conduct. Ultimately, what can happen at the state level is that someone's license can be revoked um or failed to be renewed because of those conduct uh charges. Those documents then are required to be in the employees personnel file. So if a future employer requests their personnel file, there should
065be a misconduct report in there that describes all the things that were reported and it has to stay there until the state acts. Um, so there are some accountability measures in process to help with the situation of not holding somebody accountable at that stage. And I think, you know, it's it's anecdotal, but the result of that has been significantly fewer contested termination cases um on behalf of our clients. We represent 150 school districts statewide. And so we see fewer and fewer contested teacher terminations at the board level because typically what is happening is they are saving their case for the state level. And so they would rather not make a record at the local level. They would rather make their record about their license and where they have subpoena power where they have a little
066bit more of an an advantage potentially from a litigation standpoint. Um and so that has been a trend that we see frequently now when the termination process has started. We get calls from the other side saying we want to resign. Can we work out a a resignation agreement for that reason because we are going to contest this with the state. Um and so that's pretty common now. Um, as far as, you know, looking at this process from most of my clients perspective, um, why a resignation or a separation agreement is sometimes appealing in those scenarios where the employees offering to resign is that you don't have the hearing. You don't have the uncertainty of that process. You don't have to retraumatize witnesses and bring in people to testify about what occurred. Um and so it
067is finality about the process to ensure that that person that we felt so significantly should not be continuing as a teacher is no longer with our students and we know it for sure. They won't be reinstated. They won't get back that that is an outcome that is certain that they won't be here with our our kids anymore. And so that oftentimes is an appealing route for those reasons. Are there any general questions I can answer about that? I appreciate you sharing kind of what you have shared with this board in past boards. You 17 years you've been doing this. Um I'm going to underline punctuate kind of the last part that you said there. The goal, the motivation is always to expeditiously take care of these issues as we come across them so that they're
068not within the care and custody of our children in a manner that is as uh I think I already use the word expedient but at the best outcome the best risk management outcome um for the district and for the taxpayers at the most effective cost too because for me there's a dollars and cents side to this as well. was wondering you said you do 150 um you have 150 school districts out of this roughly 600 so about 25% of those 150 or you know do you have an over under an order of magnitude how many of those districts deal with these type of employment issues is it just one that one being Parisburg or do you see it broader no across the state no um no the I we deal with employee misconduct every day
069in districts from Cleveland to Cincinnati Toledo to to the I mean, all over the state. Um, and so it is it is something that is kind of a day-to-day occurrence in our practice where we get a call and say, I we have to deal with this employee. How do we handle this process? What's the statute require? What's our labor agreement require? And we're navigating that process. I actually tried to get you guys some good data from the Department of Education and Workforce because they're the ones who appoint these hearing officers. So, I thought surely they'll have all the decisions, right? um and that they could tell us like what has been the trend, how many decisions have there been in the last few years and they don't have it. They are just appointing the hearing
070officers, but they're not collecting final decisions from any any of them. So, they couldn't give me that information. And that's really the only entity I think that could track that. Um but I like I said, I do think anecdotally we have seen a decrease in contested hearings over the last five, six, seven years. Um some of that is probably the economy too. Um, people have other options. People can choose to say, you know what, I'm not going to be a teacher anymore. I'm going to go work in the private sector. This isn't what I want to do anyway. Um, and so there's some of that. I think that's probably a factor in in that, too. Thank you. Sure. I know you mentioned hearing officers and and they're they get appointed and they're usually practicing attorneys
071or retired. Is there any, you know, what other information about these folks that make these decisions, you know, as you gear up for these kind of hearings? And so, there's a handful of of ones that have been appointed over and over and over again so that you can find some decisions. Many of them do arbitration hearings as well. So, you there there are private databases that we have access to that we can pull those decisions so you can have a sense of what those decisions are. you typically get a list of um three and then with you and opposing council have to pick somebody off of that list of three. Um and usually the strategy is trying to pick somebody who's knowledgeable and experienced about the public education setting because it is a a unique
072setting when it comes to employment. And so you want somebody who understands. I once had an arbitration with an arbitrator who'd never been on a school bus. And I thought, I wish he had that in his resume because being on a school bus is a unique experience. And you understand the loudness and the volume of the vehicle and the stops. Like you just there's a a part of life that you understand that if you've never been on a school bus, you might not get some of the the nuances of of why it matters so much that students are in their seats and that there is a level of decorum that's happening. Um so we do try to find as much out about them as we can. Um but there are definitely better ones than others
073like any decision makers um that we try to avoid or that we try to pick you know we um Julian might be able to comment on this but I think Mr. Christie we've done some research trying to get information from from the state on you know um flags of misconduct. what the numbers you know who and other details and it's like uh a black hole right Don we can't get any information you know so if we if something gets submitted on our behalf it goes into that black hole and it's no longer subject to public records we've we've done our own public records request the department of education and been denied so um we talk about transparency you know we we're we're covered but not necessarily department of education yeah the state board through their
074lensure process and through their discipline process it is completely confidential until there's a final determination. So until you get to a point where a hearing officer has issued a decision and made a recommendation to the state board of education or until there's a um consent agreement. So many people who are accused of misconduct with regard to their license will enter into an agreement with the state similar to the separation agreement thing that we're talking about where they say I will keep my license under these circumstances if I do these certain things or I will give up my license in order to not have to pursue this process anymore and I'm going to go get another career. Um and so there's there's um until you get to that final stage the entire process is confidential by
075law. Legislatively, has there been much uh discussion about changing this process so it is more like private sector? Because that's something that we hear quite a bit. Um I have not seen anything on 331916 since Senate Bill 5 and that was in 2011. Um and you know there is some context when you look through the case law of wanting to make sure that at the end of the day there is a process and procedure and accountability and due process for employees. Um, and so I think the intention of this statute, I know it is because it was in response to some litigation, but the intention was to make sure that if we are going to terminate people that it's for solid reasons and it's not a trumped up charge because you gave my son a
076an F last year and in his advanced AP class and so I'm unhappy with you and so I am going to go after you for that reason that there isn't an arbitrary or um minor disagreement like that that would lead to somebody losing their career. Um, but I haven't seen anything in years trying to change this process. It's interesting you bring up that point, too, about why is it as easy as it is in the private sector. As somebody that deals with employment issues constantly in the private sector, that is one of the things that's in my vertical. It's not as straightforward as you think. It's there are boomerang impacts. There are you've got to make sure you've got all your ducks in a row there as well. So, I'm going to give the impression
077I mean, absolutely right. at contract is much much much harder than Atwell, but Atwell isn't a no-brainer. No. And we and we work with private sector employers, too. And so, I mean, we oftentimes as part of that process, the private sector employer is telling us, go get a resignation because we would like finality, certainty. We don't want a discrimination claim. We don't want this toxic person in our work agreement signed and in hand. We want we want this done, resolved, predictable. here's a budget. Oftentimes in the private sector, they'll say, "Here's how much money you can spend on that settlement." Um, because we would like the finality and it's worth it to us for that dollar amount. Julie, I just want to emphasize and you you comment that you have a slide on this, but
078just because the the board comes up with a separation agreement or a resignation does not stop our pro our our accountability report. No. No. There's um there's very few scenarios where an employee would separate from employment because of misconduct and not be reported. And it's in those rare circumstances where you have school employees who are no longer licensed and that group gets smaller every day. Um but you know, there's certain people who work in schools who don't have to have a license from the state board. And so we have no duty to report their misconduct to the state board because they're not they have no jurisdiction over them. I'm I'm still processing some of this. I find it interesting that I think the other thing that is really different is the fact that there is
079just one person in each step of this for the most part making the decision. Um and that you know that that is a judgment call by one person whether it's the referee or the hearing officer or the judge that it it's going to be based on that one person's opinion of the information presented and that's that's a little different than I think um kind of what we expect in a process like this. So that's really helpful to hear about. Any other questions or Well, thank you for your time and dialogue this evening. Thank you very much for coming taking the time to do this. Appreciate it. Move to seven with the superintendent reports. All right. Um certainly we're we're kind of wrapping up the recognitions for this past school year. So it was great to
080see the the teams here this evening. Um also just wanted to highlight at the end of the year some some pretty um you know some some very nice uh recognition for some of our artists here at Parisburg High School. Um and and we have uh some of the the winners here with the advanced painters and ceramic students uh received awards from historic Parisburg and they have their pieces on display at Weey Library. So when we were having our uh listening tour events at Way Library uh the students this art work was on display so we're able to kind of check it out and you can see a few of the pictures there of some of those items. So, some some very uh talented work here. So, speaking of the district dialogues, um we have um
081the next one is June 24th and it's a state of the schools and a look back at the school year and and then of course we we have a topic and then it's open for for anyone to drop in. So, you don't have to come just for that reason. If you have a question or something that you'd like to to talk about, uh if you time it, you'll you'll hear a presentation. I think Randy and I are are tag teaming this one. Uh but if you come a little bit late, you can miss that and and then um share with us what what is on your mind. So, and again, that will be um from 11 to 12 uh at Weey Library. So, we appreciate them opening up their facility for us, and I know
082it's very easy to get to for the community, and I know that's why the the district chose it. So, continuing the theme, um, jacket moments that matter, uh, you know, at the end of the year, a lot of, you know, reflection on the school year and talking about, you know, the impact that our staff and teachers have on our students. And it's great that the district takes uh takes that spotlight and shows all the wonderful things that are happening and amplifying those messages from from families, from parents uh about their experiences. So whether it be a classroom teacher or an activity or a secretary, uh everybody has an opportunity to be recognized. So that's very exciting to see that. Um you know, all the great things that are being posted about that. I know there
083was some news about um uh state representative uh representing um house district 44. Uh it lives in Sennsylvania Township um demanding that um there there be uh tracking and maintaining of records on the immigration status of each Parisburg uh student. Uh so he he sent a a letter um you know said he sent a letter in his press release to to me um demanding these things. Um we did respond to that. Um and I think that um the full response is available on our on our landing page on the district website. Um the first thing that that that I pointed out is that there we never received a letter. Um so his his office apologized for that but media release, public release um and um and we had never received that letter. Um and and
084so that that but we did take time and respond to it. I think the other thing that we pointed out is is that, you know, as a criminal defense attorney and a public official as Representative Williams is, um, you know, he certainly understands the federal, state, and and constitutional protections that are afforded to students in public schools. And in my response, I kind of highlight, um, some of those cases and some of the federal law that that guides how we have to react in certain situations that he is requesting us. So to comply with your request would not only be unlawful but fundamentally contrary to legal obligations entrusted to schools. So the court and and uh different laws that that um have been passed um federally were were kind of highlighted in that. So just
085wanted to circle back to that. Um and uh and so with that um I know that um um I know that u board president uh Roland Miller did respond and I know that was published as well. So, and I I just wanted to take a moment and talk about the cost of financial uncertainty because we're going to move into a portion of the the board, you know, discussions at this meeting are going to be centered around, you know, financial matters here and what's happening in Columbus, what may happen in Columbus, and what that impact is locally and um as the district weighs, as the board weighs, you know, what steps it should take to to kind of stabilize our financial situation. Um, it creates kind of a a cloud of uncertainty in terms of well,
086what will the district do? What will the board ask voters to do? And what will their reaction be? And we wanted to highlight a couple of things that that um are are really impacting people's decisions about being in in Parisburg because of this financial uncertainty. So, we had a teacher candidate who declined uh a job offer to teach um Parisburg High School and lived in the area and decided to take a position at a high school in Sunduski County. So, they'll be commuting uh a pink a Parisburg High School English teaching position received five applications and in interviews and that selection process is underway. Last year for the same position we had 22 applicants and for the same position going back to 2122 school year we had 31 applicants. Um foreign language we had two
087applicants with only one that had the right lensure. We had a science teaching position at Parisburg High School received five applicants for it with one holding the specific license that we needed. Um and in 2022 2023 there were 19 um for that position. We had three teachers that were unfortunately um you know uh laid off and because of the retirements and we talked about that at the last board meeting the the additional retirements we were able to ask we didn't restore their positions but we were able through the retirements to ask them if they wanted to come back and take someone else's position and three individuals said no that they had accepted jobs in other districts and were going to stay there and then most recently um we have uh the to principal vacancy we
088had posted um monitoring the number of applicants. Um wanted a little bit deeper pool of applicants and we reposted uh we had a total of eight applicants for that position and we had um five candidates that we were going to interview with a building committee and administrators, teachers and and a parent. And um two of the five cancelled um within 24 hours of the um interview. So we've reposted and and beginning to look at a new deadline and you know filling that position. So so we talk about the the impact the reductions are making um when it comes to the student experience. You can look at the reduction list and point to the key club not coming back or this program going away. But I think it's also to take a moment to to kind
089of pause and highlight um the fact that there's other implications um that that also carry with that uncertainty. So as the board moves for forward with its um um discussions about what it needs to to kind of stabilize the patient financially. Um it's important it's it's important to what we do and what we expect. So, so that's it for um that June report. And while Tom's team, the next one, just think about this. The struggles for staff and the amount of applicants, it's a market economy, right? So, when we try to contain costs, it's just like anything else. If you have 10 qualified applicants versus one, you can you get an idea what the what happens to the potential cost to fill a position. So, this is our our monthly uh student safety and staff
090accountability update. Um again, we we've made the decision to to have a commitment to transparency and action, two certainly very important factors as we talk about this topic. and we continue to take significant steps to enhance that student protections, increase transparency and improve how we're reporting and and documenting. Uh so um since the last uh last month's board meeting uh uh we did meet on June 10th uh as we have met every month we have a multiple u u individuals who receive reports you know to the tip lines and uh and meeting to review those that have come in or the progress or updates on those that have already been uh received. Uh so so since that last meeting um we we had that that take place on June 10th. We also have begun to
091talk with our attorneys about um public records requests um regarding public records requests regarding this information. Uh so as you can imagine it's it's complicated. So as a as a public institution uh there are very few things that are exempt from public records. So people say transparency and we want transparency. Um there are very few institutions that have to be by law as transparent as public schools and there are very few things that um that that are excluded from that. You know when you're talking about a particular student, when you're talking about discipline, when you're talking about a student's educational record, all of those kinds of things are uh exempt. So the nature of these complaints, we we're asking legal counsel to help us go through those to determine what are the things that you
092know have to be released and then what are the things that can be redacted legally. Um and and so we're very worried about this how it would be per perhaps um shared out in the public and having a chilling effect on the work that we're doing as a district, which I think is very valuable and and following through on on many of these reports. To have individuals who make a report and then maybe perhaps see their name pop up in a social media post is a concern of ours. So we'll have more to share with that information, but that is something that has come up here in the last month that we're working with our our legal counsel um on that. So and again the these highle uh you know reports we've been sharing every
093report we've been receiving um giving a synopsis of those in a way that protects students identities. So that's very important to us. So um we've had two reports um since May 19th. Um, actually the first report was received on Friday. I believe it was May 16th. So it wasn't logged on the report at the time that we were prepared to share this with the board of education on the 19th. And it was a complaint over alleged staff use uh using a cell phone on their job. So that matter we did refer to the anonymous information to the building principal where the allegedly um took place. The second report was received on May 19th. So, as we're heading into the board meeting, um it wasn't a specific complaint regarding a staff member, but concern over some
094end of the year um school uh activity games at an elementary building. It's kind of like a field day where kids go out and have all these different kinds of activities and someone was concerned about one of those and brought it to our attention. Um shared it with the the building and they said, "Yeah, we we we cannot do that activity." and and so that was it. So we've always highlighted u a breakdown reported to reports regarded to Mr. Henline. So since February 19th um there haven't been any additional ones, but we wanted to do is take a moment to just kind of summarize and review this past semester uh the six months that we've been doing this and and kind of a breakdown of those. So you can see here a a breakdown of
095of the number of uh tips reports that were filed each month. Um and then how many have been closed and and closed as as I just shared those two examples. Both of those cases are closed closed. There was a report that someone was allegedly using their cell phone while they're doing their their work. Um that information was shared to the principal. That case is closed. They will follow up. they'll investigate um and address it. Given the anonymous nature of the report, there isn't anybody we can follow up with. Um and and the other case closed, took the information, had a meeting, reflected with the um uh building leadership and and you know, made a change and and conveyed that back to that person. So looking a little bit deeper um when you look at the
096number of complaints that that we had um in January, February um you know the majority of complaints that were were there in that first month as we shared publicly in February um had to deal with with um reports regarding um hemline. And then you can see kind of where the rest of this time were these reports fell. So, um, uh, by by month, when you do a little bit more analysis, there were 17 staff members that were specifically named um, in these reports, um, we had three reports that listed multiple people. Actually, 10 of the 17 staff members, um, came from three emails where there was kind of a a buckshot of, you know, staff members names. Um so so again we are taking these uh uh reports seriously and documenting and following up. So
097if someone lists like in one case here are four or five different staff members I think I have you need to look at um that ended up in this tally and it's something that that we did follow up on. I'm sorry. You say 17 staff members came from how many? There were 17 that were that were um mentioned by name in in this six-month period and 10 of them came from three emails. Of them came from three emails. Correct. Yeah. So somebody who says here are four names that you need to look into. Here are three names you need to look into. Um you know so so that's where you know one email can generate you know generated a number. Thank you. Um, two of the cases were referred to law enforcement. Uh, 11 cases
098you heard Julia talk about refer references to the Ohio Department of Education Workforce, how that is an important tool in in, you know, dealing with student or staff conduct. And so we had 11 cases um that were referred there for for for them to review. Um when you look at the 32 cases um only one was referred to law enforcement only. Um 11 cases again were office professional conduct. Two cases were referred to both law enforcement and the department. Um 14 cases involve some kind of a referral either either to the police or or Ohio Department of Education and workforce. and 18 cases like the the two that I just mentioned um didn't result in a police referral or a referral down to the Ohio Department of Education. It was something that we were able
099to address um or or close. Um there were 11 uh heline related of the 11 Hemline related reports, two were referred to law enforcement. So when you start looking at, you know, what kind of reports were referred to where, how many were just about um Mr. Henline. 10 were referred to the Office of Professional Conduct. So again, 11 cases were referred to OD, 10 of those were regarding Mr. Henline. And one of the two cases referred to law enforcement. Um um well, two of them were referred to and then one was both so OD and law enforcement. So you can kind of see a breakdown where the majority of those kind of reports um you know were referred to um Mr. headline. So again, I think one of the things that is important is every
100month we have taken time like we have this evening to share what came in to break down an explanation of of where things are and then today we took it a step further and said here's what's happened in the last six months. Uh so again it's it's our actions we want people to see. We want them to see how serious we're taking these matters. And and one of the questions that that has come up is has the district done anything, you know, since January when all of this hit that that first meeting at the high school, what has the district done? And and so we wanted to take a moment to to kind of break it into some large areas where we focused on things. So reporting and transparency, we we launched this tip line
101which gives uh students and families, community members another opportunity to report. We have monthly internal reviews where these reports are going to multiple people. So it's not going to just that one person. There is that that checks and balances which was certainly that's very important to what we heard. We have a formal document process to track all of these reports. Um and and we're able to to go back and how was that handled? What did we do? When did we do it? Um also we have a semester review with the Parisburg Police Division and the school resource officers with school staff to review these which which took place last month. Uh so this isn't just the school looking at things. it is opening up this information to other eyes that that look at things differently
102than than schools. Um and and then we have policy and governance. Um the the board acted quickly, created a student safety and staff kind of anti-grooming um ad hoc committee. Um it also created an anti-grooming policy um that that uh something that other districts simply don't have. um that that's homegrown that was built based on the feedback and and um we also had scheduled multiple public presentations about this particular topic. So it's always outfront. It is something that we're bringing to the table to talk about our progress and what we're doing. When you look at student voice and engagement, that's an important component of what we're doing. And the fact that that we have a student's bill of rights to be heard where we want to empower students reporting. It's not just changing a policy
103that no one is going to look at. And people do look at policies, but by and large, how do we get to the students to make sure that they have an understanding that they're able to understand what their rights are? And we engage with the um the um advisory a um the the advocacy team advisory team that I meet with monthly monthly to get their feedback on this particular topic. Um, that led to them saying, "If you just hang up posters or just do an email, we're not going to understand what this means." And that led us to come up with a a video recording that went out to families and students alike along with the QR codes and they said, you know, have a QR code because that's what we want. Um, staff training
104and awareness. This is ongoing but we February we we designed our own training program for administrators began to talk about a a a module in terms of how do you handle these specific kinds of situations. We shared that with the public and the board at at a board meeting and gave some examples of how would you handle a situation if a custodian opened up a classroom door at 6 p.m. to clean that classroom door and found a teacher with two students. Is that something that you report? How do you react to that? Um, so that was something that was important. But Title Nine procedures, mandatory reporting, you heard a little bit about that this evening and and recognizing and addressing those kinds of behaviors, which is that training and those examples that I gave the
105board and and in the public like these are things that you need to ask those kinds of questions. Um, I shared this information because our staff there and how they feel about this, how they understand why we do what we do is very important to me. I know it's important to the board and this gets staff nervous. are people going to be looking at everything that we do and sitting down with representatives like I do with the advisory committee almost every month and went over the training and the kind of questions that that are resulting from the feedback that we're getting from the community and from these experiences and they certainly understood and offered feedback about that. So that was something that was very important to us too as we look at introducing some of
106this training next school year. And of course the law enforcement and safety protocols. So when we have uh reports coming in now we have the tip line and how do we document that when police reports are made and they can't turn over the police report. How are we documenting those kinds of things? When we talk about complaints that are coming in um that aren't in the tip line. How are we documenting and talking about those kinds of things? Um, we've had presentations to the board about those systems and process. Uh, remember the board meeting where we had uh, assistant superintendent Price and uh, director Folultz come and talk about this new process that they've instituted so that there are multiple eyes on these kinds of complaints that are coming in. Uh, so it's something that
107we take seriously. So it involves the students, it listens to the students and it and it took it a step further and said this is how we want to communicate with the students and and that's going to continue. Um and again we we've had our informal formal police reports reviewed. Um we had our semester meeting with the officers that was very helpful to have them look through everything to provide that kind of feedback. And again we've ended each of these reports with how to report for students as a reminder. So if someone tunes in or sees something, we always want to have this slide to make sure people understand where students can go to share to to to help. So um so this this is kind of that that uh look in the review mirror
108as we hit June in terms of well what have you done because have you done anything? Have you taken this seriously? And when we talked about this in January, we said it's not our words that matter to people, but it's our actions. And we know that it is something that we have to to do these things. It's something that we we chose to do these things. And it's something that we want to to do these things because we want to take these steps to change that culture. And how do you do it? You you do it by listening. you do it by making decisions and backing up the things that you're doing to make a difference. And I think we've been trying to do those things very deliberately. I applaud the board for, you know,
109charting out this course and certainly all the administrators, staff, and students who've had a hand in in embracing this process and saying, you know, this is the direction that we want to go in. So, we're not where we want to be. We have work to do and the work will never end because this is an important topic and we need to continue to refine and that's part of why we have all this data and looking at it in the review mirror because we want to look back and say okay where we've done these things what are we missing where our blind spots what can we do better for next year and this begins the planning for for next year. So, so that's um that information. So, I don't know if there's any questions. I I
110think you just answered the question I was going to ask is, you know, we're uh classes are not in session right now and and the number of reports, you know, zero for the month of June. It was my question is be like, what is the work that is done this summer? But I think you just said it right there. It's taking a look at the process and seeing where the improvements can occur as as we start, you know, August will be here before we know it. So yeah, thank you again as always everybody for sharing this with the community. I think the other challenge just to um you know one of the things that we're really are struggling in Mr. Hustler uh referenced this a little bit. We certainly continue to put student safety as
111our primary directive in decision-m and the challenge right now of the public records requests for the information that have come in and that potential chilling effect um you know that I I feel like there's a double bind. I I I recognize the need for um transparency, but I'm there's this double bind now of wanting if there really is a issue with a misconduct, behavioral issues with a staff member, we want to have enough information to be able to go and and you know, rightly again, anonymous reports are are hard to utilize because they're anonymous. I mean, it's that's facing never facing your accuser. Well, when was this? What was, you know, who was this person? At the same time, we want to protect the identity of those students. We don't want that to become public
112record. We don't want there to be enough information that even if a name isn't initially shared that that that makes it out onto Facebook before we've even been able to, you know, really resolve the issue. So, I feel like we, you know, there's this sense of saying, well, maybe we should just tell everyone to be anonymous and go through the safer helpline. um that would protect the student. Um but it's less actionable when it's anonymous. Uh you know, some of the anonymous reports that we've received through the at reports email have been those kind of buckshot ones that just list a bunch of of teachers. They're anonymous. Um and in most cases, we don't know why they were listed, but now that's part of public record. um that they were named in this at reports
113for um no cause. So this is the the struggle that I'm feeling um as a community member, as the member of this board and in working with the staff on this is how to balance um kind of actionable information with student safety with student confidentiality and protection. um in the midst of kind of this flurry of of records requests about this information. Uh so far the district I understand has received year to date over 80 public records requests. Um I'm guessing we're even more since I last heard that count. Last year I think all of last year we had 50 50 60 okay 65. halfway through the year, we're already at 80 and and a lot of it is related to this information and that's problematic. We certainly have had some issues this year that
114would um you know bring about some public records requests, but this is the balance that um I I feel like the system is a really important one and at the same time there's a lot of concerns about it. So I just want to raise that. Um, I will say the policy I've I've been uh other board members have reached out to me and asked for our policy about student safety. So, Mr. Hustler said that this didn't exist. In other districts, it didn't and and other districts are looking to add something like this. Um, and I also think the communication and expectations that we have, that the administration have, that the community has about um, communication with the police have also begun to be clarified. Um, that when they're in investigation, there is no public records
115request. We're not going to receive that information if there's been a report to the police. So, I think things like that have been really helpful. Um, as we all get the same expectations. So, I think I'm confused. Are you saying that someone who reports either on the on the email or on the phone line that they are subject to a public record request? Correct. I find that I find that incredulous. That is that is wrong on every level to me that it and it explains why people are doing it anonymously. I mean they don't want they've seen what happens to us and other people that dare to come forward or anything and and the excoriation that they get on social media and how things are always said incorrectly, reported incorrectly, the misinformation piles and rolls.
116Why would they want to be involved in that? And it it seems like it's taking this wonderful process that y'all have created and cutting it out at the knees. What uh too bad Julia's still not here. It would be interesting to hear the logic for an anonymous safe reporting process. Where is the logic or the law that would allow that to be public? knowledge when we're putting it here for someone to discreetly report something. You might as well stand out in the at at the gazebo out here and just shout it out. It's it's it's the same thing. I don't I don't understand that. Am I missing something? There there are different rules for different organizations in public sector. Schools are the most transparent. We are not law enforcement and there are anonymous tip lines
117that can be made that way, but ours right now does not appear to have legal basis to keep it confidential. Just like public records requests, if you were do a public records request, you can do it anonymously, but if but public records requests are also public records, right? So just the point is, you know, go back to what the purpose of public records are. anything that documents the business of the district. There's certain ex, as Mr. Hasser said, certain exceptions. Furpa for student information, HIPPA for medical information, and there's some attorney client privilege stuff in there, and then it gets it's pretty wide open. So I think you know to if if you were if you were someone and said you know I I saw an activity at a elementary field day and I it
118didn't make me feel very comfortable. You know field days and they're crazy and and so I'm going to send an email to the to principal saying I'm really concerned about this particular activity in student safety. Um what we've done now is we've created a a one collection point for those kinds of concerns that have to deal with staff. But if that didn't exist, that email from that parent to that principal is still a public record. So So the fact that we are saying send it to this particular email, if that didn't exist, that email to that principal is still a public record. But you're saying that the email to the report at is public rec. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Because if it didn't exist and somebody said I have something to share and they share it
119with the school board or they share it with an administrator that that email is a public record unless it hits the criteria that um Mr. Jier talked about. But but in the in that case, if that parent had called the principal to speak about it, that wouldn't have been documented. Correct. Unless there was then a reason for the principal to document it. Correct. Yeah. And then you've got then you've got that problem. can. So, Ohio law with the Ohio Safe Schools tip line has created a special category that says anything received by that tip line and then shared with the local school district that is exempt from public record requests. So, that last one, the one that we've always had, that would be a more confidential correct way to go. Correct. Should that not be
120mentioned on there then? It it is. Oh, is it okay? Yeah. Um for an anonymous tip. Okay. We Yeah, we may want to add the language that says this any submission to at reports or any phone messages to this are subject to public records requal that I'd have to go back to the website to see what it says if there's anything there. But um we do we do say the the the safe school tip line is anonymous. We don't say the others are. Okay. So I mean there there's yeah we could be more clear about that but yeah I would think so. any what would happen if these if the rep not exactly this but the report at and the 2800 if those were sorry police department if those were reported to the police department
121instead of through us would that give those people protection um I I don't I'm asking you yeah I don't I don't have I don't have there there's you know at some point Um because they're they're two different systems at play here because if you request a police report that involves students name you know it mentions students they don't redact that because their laws say they they can't and witnesses they do but if it's criminal activity police reports have individuals names um in included in it. Um there are certain things that the police department during an investigation can't share out. We have to share things in real time as we're doing investigations. Yeah. So there there's different nuances and then what police can share with the school district. Once it becomes a police matter, there's limitations
122as to what they can share. And the police are probably not going to do anything with a report about a a a field day game that makes somebody uncomfortable. They're going to say, "You need to call to school." Um, so there are certain situations where that isn't a criminal activity. Um, I just wondered if going through that leg would give the people using those two new systems uh an option, but if they want to stay anonymous, then the school tip line is the way to go. Yeah. the police um the the police have limitations too with public I mean they they ultimately become public records and what can be shared and can't be shared. It's a different set of rules that govern them than us. So we always get the different rules. I think I
123ask you to talk about a negative here. Some of you may not know about the Ohio uh the safer Ohio school tip line the rules for that. Does everything that gets reported to them filter its way to the proper district? It does you know of? Yes. and it is not subject to public records requests. They carved out we're trying to recall why we didn't just stick with that. Yeah. Or or should we evaluate is that the proper avenue as you take a look at what lessons learned? I think there's some there's some discussion as we kind of get into this um that that that might be where we substitute and say this is what we're promoting and it takes the place of the report at um again the reason we went into this is to
124not just to report things that are happening you know in real time but we had a number of people that said we had made reports in the past and nothing was done with that. So in those cases, the Ohio Safe School tip line, from my understanding of how it operates, would not take those calls. We did because we wanted to know if there was something 10 years ago, 20 years ago that happened. We wanted to know so we could dig into it. Um, and they they my understanding is they wouldn't. And I'm not I'm really not advocating for that. I I I like of the the control that we have here locally. And I like the transparency. And I'm not advocating for finding a workaround for the transparency. Just acknowledging what President Roland Miller has
125said is that these records requests. 80 of them are a real issue. Right. But there's there's been 80 there's been 80 that have come in for the district, but there has been one for this information one. And that's what's causing us to to pause. I think um I think people have more or less left this alone. um because we are reporting, we are doing these things, but there's been one request that has come in where they they want this information and that's what prompted us to to go to the attorneys to say, you know, what about this? Well, I think if it's just a little bit more clear on there that um the first one, two, three are not necessarily going to remain confidential and not subject to to public record requests. But the the
126last one, the safer Ohio schools is I think that's an important clarification and let let that person reporting decide what they want to do. Maybe you even need to include in that statement what things qualify for being held confidential and not subject to um public records requests. so that they have the information that they need. If they know that they fall under one of those exempted areas, then maybe they would feel safe and and using the local system. Um, it's a it's a tough one because our attorneys have been dealing with this for a number of weeks trying to figure it out. It's complicated because some of these some of these that have been referred to the police. So it does transcend there and there are now you're bumping into that. So it's it's made
127it a little bit more of a complicated question other than just send it over and we'll redact it and we have to cite the reason why we're redacting it. Um there there's some other implications because if the police are investigating the material that we provided them there are some limited exemptions that that could apply. So it's those kinds of things that we're trying to weigh through. So what a mess. Yep. Okay. Sorry, I didn't mean to open up a nest on that one. Um, anything else, Mr. Hustler? That's it. Thank you. Like to move into number eight, treasures report. Mr. Drewer. Okay. Well, you'll be happy. I think I got actually three content slides, so we'll move fairly quickly here. And um, Miss Mankey and Mr. Bennington, if you want to add anything from finance.
128I'm going to stay really focused just on our general fund um, finances for tonight. We got other fish to fry. Plus, frankly, we're one pay period away from closing the fiscal year. I'm more focused on June 30th. But, so we got the finances through May. Um, couple things in the on the board agenda asking you approve final permanent approp appropriations and then temporary appropriations. So, in July one, we can we can open the fiscal year. So, let me just hit quickly start with our our normal cash balance slide. We're looking, you know, we're tracking like we always do and as we've already talked about, we're going to end the fiscal year slightly better than expected, slightly better than last year. And, you know, the probably the main reason is some cost containment. You know, the
129employees that have not filled and and other things we've done during the year. Um, looking at this is to me this is the more telling slide though just a reminder that the light green is our cash balance. The dark red is our revenue and the dark green's our expenditures. So our expenditures are relatively flat monthtomonth and and and the red is our revenue. So you can see why we need to carry cash balance. You know that's simply the story there. We get significant chunks in uh twice a year. Um we will get just a little bit of a bump here in in June and not very much but I'll talk about that here in a second. So um last thing is so here's where we are through um through May. Revenue is down year-over-year 3.6%
130driven primarily by um the failure the rejection of the levy in November. Expenses are up 7.6%. We're 146 true cash days, which is which is really which is I'm happy with. I wish we could stay there, but uh that that's not going to be the case. A couple of comments here. Um I didn't highlight it, but if you look at um the next to last line on the revenue refund of previous year expense, you'll see that 53.8% that is waiting for our threshold cost reimbursement that we'll get this week. So, just a reminder, I reported last month that threshold costs, which are reimbursement for um special education students over a certain threshold, that money goes that we we all submit those costs. The state divides that money up, we get some portion back. That's for
131last year, right? So, what I've decided to start doing is booking that as a refund of previous year's expense because it does really reflect that. they are not not restricted revenue. So one of those things you see in the restricted state aid is down but that's partially because of reclassifying that threshold cost into a refund of previous year expense rather than a current year revenue. Hopefully that makes sense. I know it's kind of a mouthful. Um and so and we're so we're tracking right you know like I said we've got uh just June to finish up. We're in good shape. I'm, you know, certain we're pleased to end the year better than expected, but I also want to recall that that did not come without some pain, right? Certainly the staff positions we filled, the
132pro, you know, we had to restrict building access for outside groups, um things like, you know, putting quotas on copy copers and stuff like that. All of that adds into those into those numbers. So, um, we're happy with it, but just re remember it was it wasn't just like, you know, falling off a log. Any questions on that. So, really didn't switch. Oh, so on trend on trend. We should end a year on trend and get ready for the next next fiscal year. So, any questions, comments? Mr. Bennington. Men, you anything to add? No. Well, um, there is nothing boring about this district's finances this year other than probably the May or the the April uh, budget taxual results. Yeah, like you said, is boring as beautiful when we're talking about this stuff. So, not
133that we didn't have a lot of other conversations about other stuff we'll get into, but all right. Thank you very much. So you'll see there in 8.2 is a financial report. We have final appropriations. and 8.3 uh temporary appropriations uh to get us into the ne new year and in 8.5 to authorize that between now and the end of the fiscal year any expenditures that are needed. And so in 8.6 we have a motion to approve the agenda items 8.2 to 8.5. So moved. Second. Mr. Bennington, Missy, any discussion questions about those? One comment about 8.5. I put it in there every year. Now, fortunately, we don't have to do with that. The reason we do that, if we didn't do that, we'd probably need to have our regular board meeting or special meeting like
134at the 28th or 29th of every month. That's why we do that. Now, there is always some question whether or not that is actually enforcable, but it's kind of a CYA for me at this point. So if anyone wants to vote against 8.5, they can find another board member to call special meeting because I'm not calling one. That was a threat, wasn't it? Tempted just to see how that would go. Any other questions, discussion? Mr. Jurro, roll call, please. Mr. Bennington, yes. Miss Minky, yes. Mr. Anderson, yes. Miss Lammer, yes. Miss Roland Miller, yes. 8.7 we have um several documents related to the finance committee meeting that was on Friday. Miss Mankey or Mr. Bennington additional Well, I'm wondering if we need to go into 9.1. I mean, what's the best way to have this
135conversation? We are certainly we we came to this board meeting with the intent of making a recommendation as part of a discussion for the November ballot initiative. But I think it may be best to to let Mr. Hustler and Mr. Junior update us on what's going on in Columbus. That probably better sets the stage for that conversation. That's not happening. Okay. anything specific about the meeting or we will move into nine. Well, I think the meet of the meeting is our next conversation. So, yeah. Okay. So, we're going to move into nine. Um, we're at quarter to eight already. Does anyone need a break? Uh, yeah, I would. Okay. Three, four minutes, five minutes. Five more minutes. Say three and we'll be back in five. Let's try three. Take a break until 8:40 or 7:46,
136not 8:46 I think what I'd like to do is call us back to order and skip over number nine until Mr. Hustler is back in the room and so we can move into committee reports. Um, did that work? Is everyone okay with that shift? Um, so number 10 is community engagement. Um, there are minutes there from our meeting on the 10th for your perusal. Um, we also have been meeting, we have had three meetings so far with the communications task force. There's a fabulous group of people um, fairly representative of the community. I um we didn't really know who we were picking when we picked them based on their written applications and we've gotten a really great crosssection of the committee of the community. Um we are at the point where we're really focusing in
137on um kind of key vehicles, key audiences. Um there seems to be a significant need to be on social media and Facebook that's that's been very loud. Um there seems to still be a desire for direct mail and email. It just depends on what generation I think you're a part of. Um but right now we're really focusing on um kind of the what does it look like to talk more about um the impact on students and the importance of first-person narratives in that. Um, everybody on the committee did some homework and did some very informal surveying of of different people and so we're still working our way through that. I don't know, Miss Mikey, if anything you want to add, anything else? Pretty much covered it all. Okay. Um, we decided to just skip around.
138Um, let's go back up to nine. So, Mr. Dur and Mr. Hustler, I will say um some of us were on the 12:00 call about um House Bill 335 and I decided to do something less frustrating than listening to that presentation and the information that was provided about what might happen. Um so I decided to um give my dog a bath and groom my dog. And if anyone has that, that was actually less frustrating than listening to that call. I was thinking of going out and working on my golf game afterwards and and didn't have time. So, um we will be talking about some of the scenarios and the impact um of of multiple bills, but I think especially House Bill 335, the late comer to the game. So, Mr. Hustler and Mr. We'll certainly
139move quickly here because I think the most important thing is the board get an opportunity to to talk and discuss and reflect. Um we just want to share some basic information. Um and and so Randy and I will both kind of um you know um get into some of this information and how we want to share it. So um so what we understand based on the activities and the rhetoric that we're hearing about and you know certainly choosing to groom your dog is a more relaxing task than listening to the rhetoric and actions that are happening I think says a lot because it's going to have a whatever is going to come out of the conference committee is going to have an impact on schools and we just don't know yet exactly how past banium
140budgets you you kind of know it could be a swing of a few hundred,000 And in a $70 million a year budget, a few hundred,000 is a lot of money to me and you. But in the grand scheme of things, you can make that work. But what we're talking about here is a swing of millions of dollars for our district depending on which way things are going to go. So that uncertainty um with unprecedented property tax reforms that are being weighed in Columbus um and and the impact that that will have on uh public schools, Parisburg and other government entities. Um and then we also know there's a drive for a constitutional amendment to eliminate all property taxes. So that's something that is also happening in separate from the benium budget, but we're watching. So
141this is kind of a we're this this situation is is evolving and we're waiting for the outcome um and you know the state legislature with their actions. So it's this split screen that we talk about this split screen that we know is you know what what Ry's talked about in May with his five-year forecast looking at his crystal ball. you know, not great, but I think it kind of represents what you see on the left side of the screen where where kids are at recess and playing, what's happening and the conversations and the implications of what those could mean to schools in Parisburg. Um, there's storm, there's a storm coming and you know, that's kind of the split screen that we're talking about right now. So all the conversations and everything we had up to
142just a few weeks ago was more reminiscent of what's on the left side of the screen that that you know based on what the Senate came out with Ry's five-year forecast that I think will be okay. Here's where we need. We presented options to the board. Here are five different levy options. Let's dig into it. But now there's these storm clouds that are coming and it's changing the whole picture significantly. So, um, so that kind of is what what happened in in in May and June. Um, it seemed like there was a little bit of a consensus in the last conversation, if I can kind of stake out that claim a little bit or or put a a stake in that claim, that there was more interest in that particular levy. And and we wanted
143to make sure that as we talk about this 7.8 8 mil levy that was discussed coming out of May. Um it it did not restore any of the $6 million where those cuts were based on. So Randy presented the 5-year forecast option with that 7.84 mil levy ends up with 44 true cash days. The board discussed 60 is where we want to be. you say that through your board policy and if you're not at 60, we have to come up with a plan to to share with the board how we're going to get to 60. So 44 is below that bar, but but within striking distance. Um that that 7.8 mil um levy is actually, you know, less than the 9.7 mil levy that expired on December 31st of 2024. So people would be paying
144less than what they were in the last year of the levy that expired when the voters rejected it. So that that's a a difference per $100,000 of 66.50 annually or $5.54. Also they you know wait there's more. We are retiring the debt for the the bond issue on the high school. So that's 1.7 mills that is falling off forever. So when you couple in when you couple that to whatever ask the board is going to generate there's there's 1.7 that will be lighter than than what the voters will be considering because of those mil that millage coming off and we heard from the board we need to make sure that we're talking about that too. Um, so, so that's kind of, you know, how how this works. And the net feel is is, you know,
1451779 a month per 100,000 for that 7.8 mil levy when considering the 1.7 mills that that fall off. Tom, can we go back to the uh the um true cash day slide slide six? Just real quick, I want to remind the board there's three key assumptions in here. I used the Senate and you'll see here in a minute where it ties in. I used the Senate's financials, their formula, if you will, their funding. I used Senate Bill 66, which at the time we thought was kind of not the the worst case um property tax reformation, but and those two things and the 11 and and and this here is the is 7.8 mill. So remember, keep those two three things in mind and and remind again $6 million in cuts are still built in here.
146There's no restoration of programs that we haven't already restored. So, I just want to make sure I'm going to want to kind of beat that home because it it comes back around here in a minute. Right. Do you want to expound on what all that um Senate Bill 66 included? Well, we'll get to we'll get to it. Yeah. Yeah. Wait, there's more. Yeah. Yeah. So, so the So, now we're going to move in. So, that's the part here. And and originally this probably where this the slide deck would end and the board would begin to consider well okay is it a three-year levy is it a fiveyear levy you know does 7.8 8 does everybody how does everyone feel? And the idea was at this meeting, this is where the presentation would end and the
147board would reach a consensus in that neighborhood and and we'd be directed to go to our attorneys and begin the process to get it on the ballot. In case you were wondering from the finance committee what that recommendation probably some bit more discussion on the oops sorry probably a little more discussion on the duration of it but we had locked in this $11 million although not ideal doesn't bring any of the programs gifted um all the work that we've done the positions that have been eliminated again none of that comes back back athletic fees uh uh the arts fee or I'm sorry, the performing arts fees are all still in place. I mean, all of those things are still necessary with $11 million at the 11 million levy would have been worth it. Would have
148been a true statement at the, you know, the money that um expired, the $13.5 million, but with all the cuts that were made with the redistricting of the elementary schools, that so far seems successful. but we're not to August yet to see who's going to show up at the wrong school in August potentially. Um, we were able to say in a position, you know, look, $11 million isn't ideal. Not for the district. doesn't bring things back, but it's something that we think can get the the district can um go ahead with over the next four or five years at a level understanding that I think as we talked about in finance, every dollar is going to matter over that next four or five years at the 11 million. It's still not an open checkbook. There
149would be a lot of um fiscal accountability that would need to continue to occur at that level. So, that was just in case you were wondering what were we going to say, that's what we were going to say until we showed up to finance Friday morning. And there's a little typo here, Tom. It's House Bill 696. Okay. Senate Bill 66 is uh something else, but yeah. All right. Just what's that supposed to be? N it's it's House Bill 96 and omnibus bills. So this slide shows you this is the state funding for us um on the three proposals the governor's proposal house bill 96 substitute and senate omnibus 96 and you can see the senate bill you know and this is because of the growth factor and the fivear the performance factor we get more
150funding so that way kind of felt kind of comfortable that if you take the the best funding add in a little bit property tax reform. That made the five-year forecast feel realistic at this point. And obviously with the with the with the conference committee, we could end up any one of these places or in between places. We don't we don't know at this point. Yeah. So the two the two the the um governor's proposal, the House and then the Senate um it it did um there are differences there and we'll we'll dig into some of those so that you're you're aware of those. Um the they all um make sure that the the fair school funding formula is is intact. However, they're not updating the the state's share, which really breaks down the formula because
151as local districts become wealthier, they're expected the values of those communities go up. Um, local districts are expected to to pay more. In the state, what they're coming to the table are old numbers um from years ago, averages. So, so they're paying less. So you can begin to see the percent of what you know the state share when they are fully funding the formula and updating those inputs because that was a big thing that we wanted to do. Um we we saw where we were maintaining at a certain level of the state share a percent. Um now that that's away it we're relying more and more on on local taxpayers. So, so that's where that shifting of the funding um from state to local residents, that's where we're talking about that. And it's interesting because
152back of the napkin, the Senate put down $350 million for guarantees. They put down $250 million in the performance that that Randy mentioned that we were a big beneficiary of that as a five-star district and then 70 million um for for um the enrollment for growing enrollment. if you were to take those dollars, you could update the state's inputs, which would benefit all the districts. So, so we're we're close. There is money there if they choose to want to spend it on that and and that's not what they chose to to do. Um, so so the form the the the the funding is one piece, but last week, you know, in the last two weeks, everything has changed. So you have the benium budget in the Senate and the House and all all kind of
153wrangling and you saw the numbers that Randy put together for Parisburg, but now they're talking about these sweeping um laws that are tax reform bills and they've been bundled into one bill and it is likely that that is going to make its way into conference committee and that will have a dramatic impact on school funding. So you have again the these two fronts going back to the storm analogy coming together and and so we wanted to spend a little bit of time about okay you saw where the Senate is Ry's projections we can make it 11 you know the the 7.8 mil levy we can get through this but now depending on what they do with tax reform that that changes the equation significantly. Yes, specifically Senate Bill 66, that's what I had incorporated in
154the forecast really takes into account House Bill 129, 186, and 309. What it doesn't take into account, and we don't have it up here, Tom, I don't know how we missed it, is the the biggest change is the elimination of inside millillage. Yeah, that's the biggest change in this. Okay, that's dramatically changes a a lot of things. And it's not just schools are 60% of that, right? And we'll show you the numbers, but we lose, let's say, $6 million a year. Wood County loses 11 million, right? The only group that is unaffected by the inside millillage is the townships because they have no other mechanism to raise taxes, to raise money. The county can do a sales tax, schools can do an income tax. So the feeling was we'll keep we'll protect the townships but
155counties and school districts you have to go figure out some other way to get funding. Yeah. So let's let's let's talk about some of these funding things because um you know this this this House Bill 33 it's all of these things. It's property tax relief. Um and and it goes you know much further than that. Um, I think that, uh, one of the things that that it begins to do is is gets in into um, you know, this this here are some general questions about this. So, one of them is, you know, who introduced it? Um, you know, it's a former county auditor who's a freshman representative. Um, it also talks about 1.5 billion in annual school district revenue going out the window. with this reform across Ohio. I think they revised that up to
156about two million2 billion dollars. How much money would district lose on inside mills? And we're going to talk a little bit about inside mills because people who are just kind of tuning in like I've never heard of this. Um and and so there there's some questions and answers. We're not going to go through these, but um but we want to focus on this this inside millillage. So, in Ohio, there are 88 counties, and right now, every county has 10 mills that the county commissioners can um levy to help support local government entities in that county. So, I'm I'm going to use a very simple kind of explanation. And and they break it up as to how many mills go towards schools, how many goes towards this other government entity, whatever it may be. So in
157Wood County, 4.8 mills of the 10 go towards public schools. In Lucas County, it's 5 mills. So that gives you a little bit of a variance of where these land. So that those 10 mills that that 4.8 is is applied to the district's valuation every year. So when the district continues to grow, that 4.8 doesn't roll back because of House Bill 920. that inside mills will collect a little bit of growth off of um whatever happens inside your your school district at that time. So that 4.8 mills and you know so that get so Parisburg has 4.3 general fund mills and then a half a mill that goes uh per improvement for technology. So that's how the 4.8 are divided once it hits our books. And if we could take if I could inter real
158quick that 10 the 10 mills that you referred to how is that enabled? Is that through the budget? Is that the Ohio Revised Code? That's the Constitution. It's in the Constitution. So in the Constitution, the Ohio Constitution gave counties the right to right assess 10 mills not voted, right? So So obviously there's a potential constitutional fight on that. Okay. But again, we have a we have a legislator legislator general assembly. easy for me to say that um doesn't seem to you know we've seen some ballot measures constitutional where they just continue to ignore it. So we don't know how how effective that would be. So the the amount of money that we're talking about for Parisburg so if if this where we eliminate those inside mills you know where schools and other entities can't collect
159um that first year we would see a decrease of $3.1 million. Um that's 2026. 2027 you would see the full impact which would be 6.4. Um and again as as Perryburg grows we've seen a little bit of growth on those 4.8 mills. The other levies that we have are subject to House Bill um 920. This isn't. So you see a little bit of growth, you know, that that we are able to collect. So that that represents what Randy has built into his five-year forecast is that little bit of growth. So, we would be losing $6 million and there's no mechanism to recoup that other than to go to the voters to ask for more. And here's the challenge. Think about this. If, like I said, we have legislators who say, "Hey, school districts, you don't
160have to use property tax. You can use income tax." You're absolutely right. But think about this. In our general property tax, 80% of that is residential tangible personal property tax. It's 100% of that comes from public utilities and state share is just that local tax discount that we get back. So think about what would happen on the burden shift if we have to make up $6.4 million in income tax. I'm not suggesting we should. Only residents pay that. Not businesses, not public utilities. So at the same time you're trying to give property tax reliefs to homeowners, you're potentially if you want to replace a property tax dollar for dollar, it costs more, right? Okay. And so to the resident to to a homeowner, right? To a homeowner, right? And we're 8020 district now. You know,
161so you know, the burden is already on residential already. You're just going to pile it on. And I just want to contrast say Rosford, it's even worse. They're 5050. So if you could imagine if they were expected to make up an income tax. So the thing is the whole thing is just poorly conceived to be put it fairly at this point. And so you know that's this is the storm right? This is this is what we don't know. And the fact it happens on January 1. Yeah. Not much time. If if we are not prepared for in November where our plan is to deal with it, we have to wait a whole year, right? Because you know, so anyway, I just and then imagine imagine another component of both the House and the Senate is
162capping the amount school districts can put into their cash balance. So we're talking about True Day's cash. So, while they're talking about getting rid of the the inside millage here, there's also provisions that it could be 30%, it could be 50%, who knows what's going to come out. But both chambers said, "We want to cap what school districts have." So, they're also taking away those cash that the the dollars that you could have to to help weather a storm like this. Um, at the same time, they're also taking money away here um through this mechanism. So, doesn't something like this hurt a um a taxruct structure like Rosford more because they don't have the their their strong financial base or their businesses which wouldn't get taxed. So, they're probably happy. But then the people are
163going to have to pay almost twice as much as what they're if if we replace it with an income tax. Typically inside millillage in general. Now, as as Mr. Hasser pointed out inside millillage ranges from four to five for school districts across every county in the state. The fact is we're a high value district right so inside millillage means is more significant to us. The other thing is recognize we're not you know depending that the 20 mil floor becomes an issue here. We don't know how that's going to work out. You've got all these districts were at the 20 mil floor. We are until you add in our fixed sum levy. Right. So we're no longer in the 20 mil floor. So there's no there's no way to compensate for that within our current structure
164except going back to mom and pa homeowner and say we need to make this up or we need to make these kinds of reductions. And so I mean it's it's it's it's really kind of it is it's a scary scenario because we don't have you know we have to make a decision for November here in the next couple of weeks but we should know at that point. Now the question is well if we have to make up for this in November and please don't there's other part of this we don't we haven't talked about is that's that half mil PI levy that generates $700,000 a year that's not included in this number. So, if you think about it, if we have to add into our capital and supply spending to cover the PI stuff, that's
165another half million to $700,000 you need to add in here. That's not included in this. It's not included in general. It's not general fund money. Um because that confused me on the call today. Just say you're not on Oh, sorry. Um Well, there could be value to that. Um it's it almost sounded to me like they were also considering taking our PI levy. They are it's any inside millet. It doesn't matter what it's for for the PI level is in inside military. It's the technology. It's the half a mill technology not the PI that just was passed by voters. Yeah. That's where I was getting confused. And then and just throw now we're in not in a situation but I know districts who have taken inside millillage and say hey we're going to move a
166half mill to pay for this project this capital project they're funding a school building off of that or if they've got an OFCC project they've got a half mill they have to put up there for maintenance that's coming that goes away there's no it's not what you're using it for it's inside millers no matter what you put it in there the board has decided to use it for it go it's gone. So here here's kind of the questions now make sense that we're being asked in the chat. Okay. So, so if you're keeping score all the different things that are affecting what we're doing because I know we're kind of scattered with this and um but but I think one is you know you you hear about the 20 mil floor and that is something
167that they want to do you know want to address and how the 20 mil floor works is because of House Bill 920 a circuit breaker back in the 70s if pe we have over 40 mills Randy help me out here over 40 mills that are voted that are subject to House Bill 920 and now because the community has grown, we can only collect that specific dollar amount. We have fallen below 20 mills needed to collect the dollars that have been approved by the voters. So the law says now that districts that fall below 20 mills, you can raise taxes to get back up to 20 mills because this other circuit breaker keeps taking the millillage down and and the money doesn't grow. They're saying we're going to we're going to move the 20 mil floor
168so that that increase that we received when we fell below the 20 mil floor won't be on the table anymore. So that's one thing that's part of this bundle of things that we're watching. Over 400 school districts are at or below the 20 mil floor. So this isn't a Parisburg thing. This is something that is happening across the state. Um Anthony Wayne, as you recall, they fell below the 20 mil floor. They had a levy on. If voters would have passed the levy, um they would have paid less. Since they rejected the levy, they fell further below the 20 mil floor and the automatic raising up to get to the 20 mil floor cost them more. So the 20 mil floor is something that districts that and and people are hearing this automatic increase to
169get to 20 mills and they're saying we're going to stop that. So that's that's one thing. And then you have the inside mills which is $6 million for us. Um it's 1.9 I looked it up just now. 1.9 billion across Ohio that goes to public schools that would be gone. It's 6.4 million plus 700,000. I mean we start out in 2027 losing over $7 million and then we're close to $8 million in 28 and 29. The other thing, it gives the local the county tax commission the authority to determine whether or not if voters say we want to fund Parisburg at this level, the tax commission, my understanding is will have the right to say not so fast. We feel you need this and and so that's a lever that that we're also looking at.
170And then the elimination of replacement levies um and limiting what districts can do there with replacement levies. And why why that's important for example if this inside millillage went away and we said look Mr. and Mrs. taxpayer inside millillage went away we need to add 4.8 mills to our ask. Well guess what because it's a new levy it has homestead exemption but it doesn't have roll back and non-commercial. So it actually dollar for dollar because it's it's c it's going to cost homeowners for the same for the same you know amount of the district more for the same mill. So so it's not just it's not just one thing it's not just oh it's it's this it is a whole bunch of things and all of those will have an impact on on what we
171can do or what we might do. So, here's some things in and um in terms of kind of cap capturing it um you know, how do you talk about your legislators, which is really important right now because they're in conference committee and things can get brought into conference committee and end up in the bill that gets voted out that there has been no hearings on or anyone know any, you know, so it's very important that people find their voice. But we're we're talking about this this the the inside mills is is is a challenge across all Ohio and certainly here in Parisburg. Um there's no replacement funding mechanism for it. So it's it's a cut and then go find your own way to recoup those dollars. While we're educating kids, think about the number of
172teachers because I I think about this all the time. I know exactly with $6 million reduction that we had to come to terms with. How many teachers does that equate to? What's another $6 million of cuts mean to our staff? And what does 1.9 billion mean to teachers across Ohio? What was the figure that he used today? Because it equated to 20,000 teachers. Yeah, I didn't I didn't catch that number, but yeah. So, so we have a tradition in Ohio of of local control. People elect you and you run the district and you make decisions and if people are unhappy, they they replace you. And this takes away many of the levers that local school boards have. And that's alarming. And that's not what Ohio has been or or should be. And and so, you
173know, this is something that is is considering, you know, is again, voters vote for a levy. There's another tax commission that determines whether or not you really need that. Um that that's local control, taking away constitutionally, you know, the the inside millillage. It takes away that local control. Um so these are important things. um you know the reduction of the 50% or 30% school districts make a decision we want to have a cash reserve districts don't have permanent improvement levies they raise money they bank money they make sacrifices to build up that cash reserve now to have Columbus come in and say nope we know better and that same district that has the money set aside is going to then you know reduce taxes and then turn around and ask voters the next year to
174raise their taxes to raise the money they just gave back to do that addition or to fix that roof. Um this isn't it's just not it makes every county all 88 counties very different. There'll be no unification at all. There be when the constitution requires that the common school, which back then was the only thing that they had was a common school, a public school, that it be fully funded. Well, this just goes like racing to the banshees the opposite direction. Yeah, it this is nuts. I found that that thing he said two billion. You just mentioned 1.9. Yeah, he rounded up. Okay. So, that two billion was in reference to what? The the the inside millillage going away for Ohio schools. It's a bigger number than that actually, but that's just this public schools
175portion in Ohio. And that's what he said was equating to 20,000 teachers across the state. He said we'll lose our we'll lose everything if we don't have our teachers. Yeah. So te local taxpayers will pay more and get less and and we we know that in in Parisburg. Um and you know higher class I mean where do you where do you find $6 million more? Right. And it's not $6 million a year more. No I mean yeah right. So it's not just a one time. It's it's and you know inflation. So that it's so well and and I know we keep just looking at the general fund number, but I want to point out that PI half, you know, the half a percent that's going to now have to come out of the general fund.
176So we when I I keep seeing that, you know, whatever six point or seven point, we we need to add that because we still are going to need to provide computers and technology and and you have options, right? I mean, we No, that's Do we do we do Well, but like PI levy, you could do a half mill PI levy, right? Yeah, you could do it you could do a separate levy if you thought that would be an advantageous strategy to get it out of the general fund because it specifically goes to technology if that made it easier to sell or you build. We could say that about the six and seven and 8 million as well. Well, I mean that's that's levies are the key is to so people don't anchor six in their
177minds because it's not six plus 700,000 is the number. Yeah, it's seven. It's 7 million when you round up. And but yeah, if you if you don't do something separate, you got to build that into whatever our plan is, right? And the fact is, you know, we are one to one district from third grade on. And you know we got 10,000 devices with an obsolescence cycle of five years. So do the math. And I think so this so the board going back to May when the skies were a little bit less dark um we need to stabilize the patient because if we don't do something to address the levy rejection, it is another round of reductions, you know, the next year and then the following year. So, we were already gearing up for this revenue
178decline because we used one-time money to get through this year um out of our cash reserve and then we used $6 million to balance that. We don't have the one-time cash anymore to do that for the next year. Um so so this situation now is totally separate to the conversation that we were having in May. In May it was like okay how do we stabilize the patient and this is what we need as a district just to keep doing what we're doing and to protect what we have today. Everything that we've just talked about is pulling it doesn't even address that. It's m more It's more money being sucked away and and you hear the vacuum cleaner in in Columbus firing up and that's that's over and above what brought us to this point to
179talk about a levy. I said that by a couple hundred thousand I mean by by 80% more. And we don't mean to be, you know, alarmist about this. And I think we've we've been through budget, you know, stuff all the time, but the you heard it on the call, statewide call today. You're you're hearing it in other government entities that are impacted by this. Um, this is a a a a different situation than we've ever seen. And it's not just one thing. It's not just this one thing. It's all of these things lining up and who knows what is going to make its way into the banium budget but stuff is going to make it there. Dr. Fleeter said that this reached the proportion of catis cataclysmic catastrophe and for him to say that that
180put such a chill down my spine. Um I just I just don't even I just don't even I mean I'm looking at these names here you know the Gavaron Gambari Williams Macaui why are they not listening to the professionals in this field i.e. you too and your Well, I think I think they need to hear from parents. I think they need to hear from citizens. I think they need to hear from you. Um because I think they they need to hear from property. I I think the most frustrating piece of this is that this has been presented as a way to um you know save people from the increases on their property taxes due to the really historic and probably one-time revaluation that hit us. I will say I went back and looked at my
181taxes um and over that same period my taxes went up at exactly the amount of inflation with all of this and there's and I realize everybody's house value went up a little bit different everybody throughout the state but here in Parisburg for mine um my taxes went up but they went up at literally at the rate of inflation so they're trying to save everybody from property taxes that's a probably a one-time thing they even admit in some of their bills that it's probably a one-time thing. Um, and in the meantime, they're pushing us into a corner where they're saying and they've said, "Well, you can you can now generate funds from income taxes." Um, so we are saving as as Mr. juror pointed out, we're saving businesses money, but we're ultimately going to be asking
182even more money then from individual residents in our district. And I find I think the thing that struck me most today was the comment that um there is an incredibly complex problem about house values, property values. school funding is very very complicated and I think in some ways they're trying to correct that so that we can all understand it better. Um but it's complex and it's significant but they've done by shoving this in and I'm going to use that word in particular by shoving this in right before the deadline. There is no really thoughtful way to consider the consequences. And that's been my frustration as each of these bills has rolled out is that I've kept saying and I've texted this sometimes to some people of has anyone thought through the consequences of this? And
183in this case, I don't I want to move us into discussion and I don't even know what we can discuss at this point. Um because understanding the consequences of House Bill 335 is enormous. Um and to do this without the opportunity for public comment and hearings is um really unethical to me. And I ended at that call today just so angry. Um, and I decided to take a break with my dog and had fun. I hate giving my dog. I'd like to know Arwin's opinion about Yeah, she wasn't happy about that call either. I but the question is really what what is it that we can actually discuss tonight because I I do think we need to encourage one another and the public and anybody who owns property in Barryburg who's an individual restaurant resident
184this is not the solution that's going to really help property tax no reform not at all. Um, one of the things that they repeatedly said on the call was to tell our story. So, your Q&A here gives a lot of information and I thought maybe it was on something else that you showed us. Oh, discussing with your legislators. Could we have Oh, I know. I know this needed to be done yesterday, but we didn't know about all of this yesterday. Can we take that information and just be very myopic and relate it to us? I know it's affecting our neighbors. I know it's affecting every 88 counties in here. And I don't mean to be selfish, but if we're going to ask our beg our community to understand the disaster that this bill and budget
185is, can we translate all this information into very specific I think there's I think we have one slide that sells it all. So if we go to the one where the estimate of how much we lose plus this but that that's money and there's so many people who say well fine lose the money we don't want to be paying this much in taxes. I think we need to translate that into into programs into the effect that it will have on their property. Yeah, we're going to lose that much money but you're going to be spending more to make up for it. They're not at the last at our last meeting in the hypothetical of what it would take to um make sure costs did not our expenses didn't increase by more than 4% a year.
186Um Mr. Hustler and Mr. Durer presented a hypothetical very hypothetical list of what would cut $6.5 million. So that it's that list that's the order of magnitude that plus another 700. That's 75 to 100 staff members. That's what's at risk. There you go. That's 75 to 100 staff members and and it's each year. It's each well that's the cut and then you're going to have to keep cutting to keep up with that. We would have to cut more of the into 20. If it was just certified staff, you're talking about 75 to 80 certified staff members. We don't have 25 um classified staff to cut. I mean, we're down. I mean, you you cut high school transportation, you start doing these other things, you could eliminate sports, all those things. You're going to have to
187That's what this means. That's the conversation that becomes on the table is how much of that 7.1 is split between cuts and what is feasible on the ballot. Yeah. And I didn't even count the 700. So So add another eight Mhm. teachers in there. So you're 85. Yeah. And I mean we can try to put that together, but that's the order of magnitude we're talking about. And also in the bill, I mean, it's just one of those things you just like it's not even the worst thing. And it's that that school levies have to pass by 60%. Mhm. That's in there. What did he say? 25% of levies in the state. 20%. Yeah. 20%. 20% of levies in the state of Ohio passed by more than six 60% or more which I've always thought you
188know the you put that in the voters's hands any levy into the voters's hands that changes that it it it dies amongst five community members without the the community ever getting a chance to say how they feel about a levy. Did that does does that thinking apply to just school levies? school. And see, that's what's wrong about it. Why are they always attacking the schools? If you I've I've been in on those conversations of making money grabs from government organizations, needing to pass by some sort of super majority, not a simple majority. And that really to me in a lot of ways makes sense. But why is it just schools? So the library can come along and pass more and and it can only be by 51% that you know the city that none of
189that makes sense to me. I I I realize I'm a little wrapped up in this and not doing a very good job moderating and I realize that Mr. Anderson and Miss Mankey have not been able to jump in because the rest of us are fired up about this a little bit. So I want to make sure that Mr. Anderson or Miss Mankey and if you I mean the discussion may need to be if this is the scenario um are we looking at a portion of cuts versus adding more to the 11 million levy we were thinking was going to be just barely enough. Um so anyway I want I wanted to make sure Missy and Mr. Anderson actually had a chance to get in if they wanted. Well, we in finance we did go over
190our best case scenario and our worst case scenario. Um, not that the best case was really the best case. I call them the worst and the worst worst. Um, but I mean that's looking at 11 million for going on the ballot. And at that, your best case gives you 28 days of true cash, which once we roll around to the end of December, beginning of January, into February, that's where we're going to cut it close with making payroll just in the first year. Just as you go into out years, there'll be borrowings occur. Exactly. And then worst case scenario, we are out of money in two years. Um and yes, not not making payroll. So, um you know, basically what everyone has said, this is going to be a case looking at what they want
191to do now. It's going to put the burden 100% on the citizens, which I hope the public out there understands that. Yeah. Um, and yes, none none of the districts are are even somewhat prepared for it. We're probably at the worst worst just more like a property manager. Yes. With five or six buildings that nobody comes to because we'll have to completely change the way kids get educated in this district. Look out. Private schools, here they come. already there with the voucher money. Yeah. No, I mean I I think the key for me is the we're going to have to work with what we have, right? There's so many unknowns out there right now, right? you know, 11 might be a smidge under where you need to be when you look at that first year,
192but I think given the number of unknowns and a number of different scenarios that can come out and then add on top of that the potential constitutional ballot initiative to eliminate property taxes. I think there's dominoes that are going to fall over the next five years that are going to require re-evaluating the funding scenarios, right? And so the part of the conversation is can you do a can you do a single levy in November that solves the equation for five years? Probably not. The number would be so large it wouldn't it wouldn't make it. But then it's also a property tax levy. So if the ballot initiative passes then you're back to square one. So there and needs to be some sort of multi-pronged approach at how do you start to balance a property tax
193levy in November with then based on how the funding situations and clarity starts to come from the various initiatives at the state. Do you have to look at making a conversion to an earned income and then adjusting earned income sometime in the 26 27 time frame and how do you start to stitch that out? because I don't think you can do it all in one shot in November and cover it for five years. And that may be the message to the community is that's not on the table anymore is one levy in November that covers it for five years unless the they I'll say come to their senses and drop 35 from it. But it doesn't sound like that's going to happen. And so we're going to have to think about this from a multi-step
194approach on how do we ensure that we can maintain what we have today and give ourselves time to figure out okay what's the next step based on you know because it you could end up with a constitutional challenge to it that gets upheld at which point the inside millage comes back and it could get tied up for several years. lots of different scenarios that can play out that we just don't know what they are. But what we do know is if we don't pass a levy in November, we're going to start making cuts next year that are going to be much more significant than the ones that were just made. One other thing added that. Sorry, the ballot initiative for property tax. I would think for now I would push that aside. Okay? And here's
195the reason why. If that passes, we're out of business. Okay, we have operate for two or three months in January, February, then we're done. We're out of money because it's it's that part of our budget. So, to me, that's that's kind of the death sentence. It's a different we're not going to solve that one. But I think the your point on the other things I think need to talk about. Sorry. Okay, I'll shut up now. Maybe trying to think about what I was going to say. Sorry. I feel real. Just blew it right out. I well and you know to your point if it does happen there's going to be more or less a huge re revolt with all all the schools and you know as somebody who has been through the whole funding schools
196I I have a big problem with what we did because we examined how or how what amount of money we're giving schools, but we did not dig deep and look at the origin of where the money is coming from. And that is to me that is the the very crux of what um Randy help me with the name of the of um school funding the um Yeah. No, no, no. The court the court case. Yeah. the DOL. Um, that's what it was about is really where the money is coming from. Um, and if that's the case, then to me it'd be gloves are off, all these state mandates that you say, we're going to go back to the basics. We're going to educate kids. I And I wouldn't I don't care about what your reports
197you want at the state level. That's too bad. you've cut us off so much that we're not doing that. We're doing what we're supposed to do and we're going to educate kids. That would be about the only thing we could do. There wouldn't be any any activities or anything like that and just it would be it would be a drastic change. Wouldn't be a great experience for the kids. I think one of the pieces that I've always hung up as a priority as we've talked through our levy scenarios and what our assumptions were was that need to um I really dislike this but I'm going to have to use it stabilize the patient. Um Mr. House is laughing at me right now. um that stability that is impacting not only our hiring practices or abilities,
198but morale um just even our time and the administration's time of of being able to plan longer term when we're constantly in this crisis. And I I the frustration for me is that we find ourselves in a new crisis for you know the 11 million would have which really was the worst case scenario two weeks ago would have provided us that stability to to be able to step back look at the future look at what education can and should be in our district. Um give some sense of permanency to our staff especially uh our newer staff. Um, and to me that's still a priority that I want to hold on to that we um I realize that there's going to have to be a lot of course corrections in the next couple years, if even
199small percentages of House Bill 335 go through, but I would like to see a levy that gets us through not having to ask for new money um next year. Now again, House Bill 335 may throw that desire and I think needed um needed foundation in our district out the window. But if there is, my priority would be going forward, depending on what does come out of conference committee that we look at a way to get through into maybe 27 before we're asking um the good residents of this district for more funding. So, I'm just going to put that out as one of my priorities. I don't know if it's realistic or not at this point, but until we see those scenarios, I don't know. Yeah. Well, I would agree with that. I mean, I am
200also interested in whatever levy decision we do pushing off the next one as far as possible. So, I'll even go out five years even more impossible depending on what comes out of conference committee. But the thought of the thought of you, you put it out there and I had stopped to think about it. You know, trying to avoid a levy every year is a scary proposition if that's what we're down to. But it could be. It could be. is it, you know, three years out, four years out, you know, that that seems to be the position we're gonna we're we're moving into. Is that need to be on the ballot constantly if it's for, you know, stabilizing things this year and then trying to adjust the ask quickly in the next couple years. None of
201that is going to be easy to do. But I also don't think that a just whatever the you know the a 20 mil levy to make up for whatever this is that certainly doesn't pass in this community no matter what the story is and we can't cut our way through that. So I mean part of the story certainly will be the offset of the actual inside millillage falling off. So I guess you know we that scenario of what it doesn't look like to increase obviously we have a new tax but increase taxes beyond what had fallen off this year right and I do that's probably where I I hope I end up in the not the worst worst scenario which is what these are numbers are showing but just the worst scenario or if it's
202more akin to $2 million a year. Um, but could we ask for could we go back to where we were two years ago after that? You know, go back to that level of funding to make up for this inside millage change, including the extra ass to make up for the inside million. That's right. It's not quite break even, but you you're talking about 12.6 mills versus 7.8. Yeah. That kind of keeps us whole. And that included um and I include that $700,000 in the further technology. And we were at before the 2024 levy expiration where 13 and a2. We were at 13 and a half. No, we're Yes. Is that right? No. 9.7. I'm sorry. 9.7. Yeah. 9.7 13.5 million. Yeah. 13.5 mills. 9.7 mill. So 12.6 6 mills in the hypothetical just would include
203the 11 million7 whatever that is 7.8 plus the existing taxes we're already paying through the inside millillage. Yes, it's true. I mean, it's it's harder to explain that to the community, but it's just how we would recoup those existing existing taking us back in terms of dollars to what a akin to a I'm going to get my because it's getting late in the evening here. a, you know, a fixed levy back in 2024. We couldn't do that because of the cut or we couldn't have done that without doing cuts. We've done those cuts. So, kind of going back to what was option A. Apologies, Mr. Anderson, you weren't here for option A, but what option A was back when we were looking at the 2024 initiative. I think we're I'm going to urge the board
204at this point, we're kind of wait and see. Yeah, I know. I Yeah. Again, I'm talking about is it the worst or the worst worst? The worst worst. I don't have an answer right now. Yeah. I actually I have the worst the worst worst and the horrible worst worst. There's really Yeah, it's it's 7.8 mills is where we were in May before the storm clouds gathered. Y and they're talking about eliminating 4.8 mills. Y So 4.8 plus 7.8 that puts you I mean 12.6. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's it's this for that but then we have to explain that to everybody right but again I think and and it could be 60% yes to get that I don't want I don't want to prolong this but in this room yeah to Mr. Anderson's point,
205I think you got to pick a window that's long enough that if you want to redefine how Parisburg funds its schools, but that window is not a year, that window is not two years, that window is at least three years because that t that's how long it takes if you want to do something other than a property tax, right? So converting so converting, you know, that first step, converting it earned income, I mean, traditional to an earned income step one, that's another year later, you're going to do another step. but takes three years and you still have the question whether an income tax is better than a property tax and I think I frankly am uncomfortable with that just because it shifts it takes all the burden off business what little we get onto property
206owners but I mean that's the that's the assessment we're going to have to do you know and we're going to I think you know conference committee starts meeting tomorrow so and and um on the conference committee If you guys you saw the emails today, um it's the the the chairs and the the vice chairs from the House and Senate Finance Committees and the ranking members. Um and I've interacted with I know uh Paula Hicks Hudson who's a ranking member in the Senate Finance. She is she does not completely understand school finance, but she is on board to try to protect. But she's, you know, one voice out of the out of the six on that. And, you know, I think the priority is is is some kind of property tax relief. And, you know, we
207we're talking about worst case here. Maybe this is, hey, we're showing you the worst case, so we're grateful when you come into something a little bit better. That's always part of that game, too. So, I think I think um we understand we're in an environment where we just can't go to the voters and say here's the bar and this is where we need you to be. We we know we live in an environment where we have to come to the table and show what we've done, the sacrifices that we've made, what we've done to to kind of earn that earn the trust and also demonstrate that fiscal accountability, which I think we we've we've been doing that. So, um it's it's just that era that we're in now. I just want to highlight again um
208you know we've looked at slide what 15 with the you know 6.4 7.1 million from inside millillage. Um I just want to highlight again there are other elements of this bill that could still also negatively affect our um ability to fund our schools. So and by the way in those numbers we some of those other things are built into that. So we're taking into account so that is the worst worst case. So just so you in the scenario ones. Yeah. Um before I referenced slide 15 and we talked about who was on the committee up on the board and I haven't gotten um sign off from everybody yet about a special meeting Monday July 7th was that 7th is um 5:45 again our our goal was to originally uh consider the resolution for necessity today
209with the uncertainty we it seems seems um like a waste of emotion right now. Uh so to wait for what comes out of conference committee so we can actually forecast appropriately um rather than and that'll take a little bit of time after it actually comes out and then we hit a holiday weekend. So that 7th would be I think the first time realistically that we could have enough information to discuss this. So if that's I don't know if that Oh, we don't have the work session before that, do we? No. And that that would be the day after or the like it's right. The work session was on the 2nd. Yeah. And even if we had Well, no, actually the work session was originally scheduled for the 9th. We had moved it off the second
210and the second's too fast to get. cancelled. We cancelled the work session and we scheduled the retreat retreat on the 12th. That was the switch there. And so this is a a bonus round. So the schedule that week if this meeting on the 7th uh we would have a special meeting the evening of at 5:45 on Monday the 7th and then we would have our kind of um retreat on that Saturday morning the 12th. If we meet Monday and we're unable to immediately come to a decision, it also gives us other time that week to call a special meeting to meet again because we are starting to barrel down on our deadline. So, do we need a motion on that or I mean it works for me. So, what's what's the hold up? Missy, would
211that work for you? And then seven. Yes. So, I'm hoping to be back from vacation by then. Okay. And I think I checked who I I don't I honestly don't remember at this point who I checked with. You didn't check with me, but it's okay. I got it down. All right. And Mr. Anderson, you as long as I um so as so there is um in the technicality of it, I could call special board meeting without vote, but we did include that in the agenda at 18 something. So that will be in the agenda for our approval. It's 18.5. It's not in your printed copy, but it is online. It's online in the agenda. Yeah. Do we have a scenario of the 11 the 7.8 mil levy with the loss in inside mills? We don't
212have it yet. Okay. Well, I mean I have I mean the fact is I've run that scenario and we talk about in it's in the finance committee. Okay. But it's we're out of I think we're down to we're out of money in the third year. Okay. So, right. So, that gets you the three years then. Well, well, maybe. Are you on Oh, sorry. Sorry about that. Yeah, we're we're essentially out of money. Out of money at the end of that third year. So, the question is whether or not I can get through that third year without borrowing. So, you're on the ballot in second year. You're on the ballot in 26. Yep. Okay. I think it's represented in the second half of this image there. I think that's I think he was looking for a
213little more detail than that. Look at look in the finance committee um presentation on it and and I have that scenario there. If you got any questions, let me Yeah. So 8.7 has that scenario. All right. Other discussion about this other than I hope people storm the state house with pitchforks and Okay, not that but whatever works. Yeah, whatever works. All right, I'm gonna move us on to 11. Mr. Bennington, student achievement. Sorry, segueed there. No, you're good. You're good. So, uh, good minutes. I'll just focus really on uh the major discussion. Um, state testing results have come in uh as of our meeting. Um, um, it was the the results were still being, you know, digested, but you know, the highlights, you know, some improvements in some areas. uh upward trends at the junior
214high in most areas. Uh one thing that's interesting, you know, need to kind of benchmark these results that we had against, you know, the results kind of overall in the state and just see, you know, what changes occurred kind of in the testing versus versus, you know, how those changes, you know, may have impacted us specifically. uh you know good strong results at the elementary and that's you know with a lot of work with the new curriculum being rolled out and just kind of shows how well the teachers have done kind of teaching that new curriculum and and uh the impact it had on the on the state test. Uh then we also spent some time talking about or or going over the top 40 successes for uh the teaching and learning or student teaching
215and learning department during uh during the year. Um that list is attached to the minutes here so you can float through all of the great work that they did. You know the some highlights and not in any order of of importance or priority or impact but uh successful year one implementation of witten wisdom. you know, year one of the grading practice committee was launched. Um, creation of standardbased reporting in K through four, uh, continued, you know, support for the jacket way and and PBIS implementation. Uh, tier 2 behavioral supports being expanded, something that was brought up, the need for that brought up in last month's um in last month's board meeting. So yeah, uh some other things that I'm sure uh are important that I haven't highlighted here, but you know, it also give it
216context that all of that work was done in what was a very challenging school year anyway with with the budget issues and staffing issues and all that all that uncertainty. So the rest of the agenda items I think here are pretty self-explanatory as you read through them. So what did I miss? Sounds good. Okay, thank you. That concludes my report. We move into 12 which is um opportunity for other committees. We listed um couple of them here not all of them but the superintendent committees and then uh foundation I know met if there's any additional reporting anyone wants to provide the June operations meeting was canled. So okay that'll be short report. Okay. Um, we move into 13.1 and we have a consent agenda in front of us. Items 14 through 18. And again, the
217not in your printed version is 18.5, the scheduling of a special board meeting in July. What does SLIP stand for under 15.3? BGSU ODH SLIP grant Ohio Department of Higher Education anyone trying to remember a grant what's SL SLIP stand for student it's a student teacher grant isn't it so when when we have sometimes the the um higher ed education departments when we they place a student teacher they'll provide a stipen to and I think that's what that grant does. Is that not right Brent? As far as training science or reading okay science or reading I'd like to request to pull 171. That's not right. Is this 171? Yeah. So, we'll pull out of the consent agenda 17.1 and that'll be a separate discussion and vote. Any other items to pull? Okay. With the consent
218agenda minus 17.1 in front of us, um, can I have a motion to approve the consent agenda? So, move. Oh, okay. I heard Mr. Bennington and then Miss Lammer. Yeah. Stereo. Mr. Dur. Roll call, please. Mr. Bennington. Yes. M. Lammer. Yes. Miss Mankey. Yes. Mr. Anderson. Yes. Miss Roland Miller. Yes. Which leads us to then consider 17.1, which was the administrative reduction in force. We've been um doing these kind of each month different um parts of the staff and this month it's administrative reduction in force. So I needed I needed a little clarific clarification on this and I wanted to be sure that other people understood. Wait, I want to have a motion and then second then we can discuss. Does anyone want to move this motion? So moved. Second. Okay. Mr. Bennington, Mr. Anderson,
219Miss Larmer, would you like to discuss? Okay. Um, I wanted to be sure that people understood that there have been three administrative positions cut, that it's not just this one. Um, so that was kind of important. But the reason why I requested that it be pulled is because it affects a very close personal friend of mine and I did not feel that I would be fair in my judgment of voting on this one. Um, so I wanted to I will be um abstaining from this vote. Um, this is I mean we've we fought real hard for that position and I understand the need to cut administrators um where we can um in that regard. So I I can see it, but I think it's it's wrong for me to participate in this vote. Um, and
220Randy said that he could absorb the um the the work that the assistant treasurer does. So, I'm grateful to you for being able to do that with everything that the state is piling on you on top of everything else. Uh, as a member of this community, I thank you for your work that you're doing because it's just piling and piling and I feel like it's really a lot on both of your shoulders. Um, so I'm sad to see this position go for many, many reasons, but uh, way too close to home for me to be able to vote on that. I think I appreciate you highlighting there were two other administrative positions that were cut. It's a reduction, but those people were able to shift into uh, other roles within the district. So, thanks for
221highlighting that. Any other discussion? I just want to add you know none of these are taken lightly right because it there are human beings involved whether it's this one position these three administrative positions or the other you know 20 or 30 other folks that that we had a reduction but fortunately had retirements we call them back. This is unfortunately a when you're in the finance world it's a single track profession we just we can't bump into a building we can't bump into a classroom it's it's a tough one. Okay. Uh, Mr. Duro, roll call, please. Mr. Bennington, yes. Mr. Anderson, yes. Miss Mankey, yes. Miss Lmer, abstain. Miss Roland Miller, yes. Motion passes. We move into board discussion. Any other business we haven't covered yet at nine o'clock? All right. Um, I have no other
222people that signed up for public comment. And so if there are no objections I will adjourn the meeting. No objection. So adjourned.