10-28-2025 Appoquinimink Board Workshop

001Everybody ready? >> All right. Good evening everyone. We are beginning. >> Does everyone want to stop talking? Good evening everyone. We are beginning our board workshop here on finance recommendations. Without further ado and in our normal fashion, we will start with the pledge of allegiance. >> Pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the stands one nation indivisible and justice for all. Thank you everyone for joining us online and here in the room. Um, as I mentioned, this is our uh board of education finance training uh workshop and I will turn it over to our superintendent, Dr. Burroughs. >> Thank you, Dr. Graham. U just as we get started, we have a um Mr. Forston is on Zoom uh joining us via Zoom and uh board member Abrams was

002unable to join us tonight because of a family matter and um Miss Dit Michelle Dit is also um will be joining us a little later via Zoom. I want to start off >> this this is Shark. I just want to say I'm sorry I'm not there in person. I've been sitting in traffic for the last 35 hours. So, I still do or 35 minutes I um I do hope to make it there uh eventually. >> Thank you. [clears throat] So, um before we jump in, Alisa Stewart, our director of finance, myself are going to go through the um finance recommendations, those that came from the auditor and those that came from our subject matter experts. And we'll go through those. We'll go through what the re recommendation was and then also how we're addressing that

003recommendation. Just a few things as we get into this. Some of these uh some of these there's 38 pages. So um some of these are things that are in progress that we're continuing to progress through and we'll update the board and the community as we um progress in these areas. So but if there are any questions, please do not hesitate [clears throat] to reach out. I will take say that no one wants to be going through this or have this situation that we're currently in. Um I do think though that we will be stronger and better on the other side of this. Um I think this presentation tonight we are taking this these recommendations seriously and we're implementing things to address these so we're not in this situation again. I view everything as a learning

004opportunity and I think for sure don't want to be learning this way or going through it in this manner but we have learned from it and we hope that also other districts are have learned from this as well. So I'll start off with the first um state order recommendation on governance. The district should establish better internal controls within the finance office and implement clear approval policies for financial documents, ensuring both the superintendent's involvement and the CFO's oversight is documented. So we have implemented internal policy that all expenditures must be approved by the director of finance. This change is being reviewed and updated to implement processes to ensure that the director of finance is aware of all the financial requests that flow in and out of the district. The director of finance meets with superintendent weekly

005to provide all financial updates accordingly. And so part of that process is also our director of finance is new to the position. So along with this approval process, they're also learning the flow um for the district, how things flow in and out of the district. >> Dr. Bros. Um just a point on that. So the last um few words on the recommendation says that your involvement is documented. What does the documentation look like? Like how are you documenting the oversight the literal in the literal sense? >> So um it's documented via email at this point um is how we've documented that process. This will of course evolve over time. um as a director of finance gets comfortable in their position and sees how things flow in and out of the district. >> Thank you. >>

006We're also in as part of this process last January um we were able to hire an analyst. They're also involved in this process um as well and is receiving training. >> Okay, sounds good. Recommendation number two, training should be held with the school secretaries who manage financial and payroll functions to improve communication and consistency. So what we're doing with that is all updates and changes have been made so far have been communicated with all finance secretaries. The finance department plans to meet with all finance secretaries on November 10th to discuss the changes and provide an opportunity to ask questions andor voice concern. The finance department plans to implement this time going forward until all financial processes have been reviewed and accounted for. Once completed, the director of finance plans to hold finance trainings to provide

007the information necessary to ensure best financial processes are implemented. >> [clears throat] >> Recommendation number three, a preparation and review pro process should be implemented for budgets and monthly revenue and expenditure reports with the FAC receiving full documentation for meaningful discussions. The director of finance is working with the superintendent and the FAC to revamp and define the role of the Abcomy School District FAC. State policy is being reviewed and and discussions are taking place to develop a path that is feasible for the FAC to be effective and confident in the role that the committee plays for Abcomy School District. The FAC is currently receiving all documents necessary to review the overall finances of the district. The director of finance is working on creating a document that is comp is a complete review of the revenues

008and expenditures of the upcoming school district that can be posted on the upcoming website for everyone to review. Yes, sir. >> Um, real quick on the FAC, uh, at the meeting last month of their the committee meeting, they were speaking of, uh, bringing in a chairperson and a either a co-chairperson or vice chair. Did have they done that or are they planning on doing that this meeting, the next meeting? >> So, our next meeting is uh, November 4th, and that is on the agenda to do. Uh I I don't know if this is a suggestion or something we would have to do um as a board a vote, but I would suggest um at least the co-chair on that on that committee be a the board member that is assigned to that committee. That I

009don't know if that's something we would have to vote on or is that something that we could just recommend and happen? >> Uh I think you can recommend it to the um financial advisory committee. Go. >> Recommendation four. Remember these are all from the state audit report. Financial advisory committee meeting should be documented to confirm approval of the CFO's presentation and the board should be kept informed through the FAC's board representative. To Tim or to Mr. Higgins earlier point about um possibly having a uh the chair or co-chair be a board member. Um each meeting an agenda for the FAC is provided to all the committee for to all the committee to review and the necessary documents are attached as well. Meeting minutes are taken by the finance analyst and the minutes are approved by

010the FAC. Once approved, the minutes are signed off on by the chair, co-chair, the director of finance and the finance analyst. All documents are available to the public on board docs. The link can be found on our district website under the board section. real quick. Um we don't have to go back, but um when there said the FAC receiving full docuation for meaningful discussion if the FAC um as a committee um votes to or recommends um necessary reasonable documentation from the school district, they would be able to get whatever they deem necessary to do their volunteer job. Correct. >> Correct. And so part of the process, this process has been by our subject matter experts have been training FAC as well and also providing documentation and getting feedback from the FAC on what documentation that

011they would like and like to keep and that what's not necessary. >> Dr. Rose, as you continue, um I think it would be helpful to just highlight of the um action plans what's kind of already in place. Um I think it's important as you said at the outset that a lot of this is already happening. So I think as we kind of go through it and going forward, if you can just call attention to that, >> if there's good work already happening, let's >> and there's still opportunity, let's kind of differentiate the two if you don't mind. >> Absolutely. Recommendation five, the district should provide training for board members, the superintendent, staff, and volunteers to strengthen financial financial knowledge. So, this is something that's happening um and is ongoing. This particular uh recommendation, this recommendation

012will take time to implement and complete. The director of finance has time on the agenda, meetings with cabinets, principles, and secretaries to communicate information and provide the training necessary. Other notable dates tonight's board training. Um the director of finances also held a financial course with cabinet this past Monday to provide training. In addition, training is being held monthly with the FAC through monthly meetings. And previous to this, there was trainings I've had um I personally have had trainings with the subject matter experts on particular thing uh reports that we should be requesting and the items we should be paying attention to on those reports. >> Sounds good. Thank you. >> For recommendation six, the district should present all financial and budget reports in a clear and easily understandable format. This is something that's ongoing. Um

013the director of finances provided a document to the superintendent to review that would be the starting point of presenting the revenues and expenditures in a more clear and concise way. This is currently being vetted. We also at our um November meeting will be the amended preliminary um budget will be presented. You're also going to see that in a format also that's going to separate discretionary and non-discretionary spending, state and federal funds. All right. So, this is a continuation of the state audit inquiry, but it's the financial reporting side of it. So, the recommendation one from the state audit, the direct the district should continue working with the DOE's financial recovery team and school finance experts to ensure program and fiscal stability for fiscal year 26 and 27. The director of finance communicates with the state

014of Delaware and department of education to ensure financial certainty at aquin school district. Currently, this includes monthly reporting to DOE. The director of finance continues to work with Dr. Dr. Chuck Longfellow, former CFO from Appoquent School District to G to gain insight, mentorship, and direction to ensure that the director of finance is making sound decisions to ensure the stability of ASD finances. Recommendation two, a standardized format for budget reporting should be adopted, whether mandated by the DOE, developed at the district level, or modeled after similarly sized districts. Budget accuracy can be improved by comparing prior year actuals from the state's accounting system with budgeted amounts and by requiring that budget reports be prepared by staff, reviewed by the CFO and vetted with the FAC before board presentation. Currently, the district utilizes DSC, which is our

015data service center to review expenditure information. The director of finance is in the process of implementing a financial budget system called aliv that will address this recommendation. It is currently being vetted through it to ensure compatibility with aquinid school district current network and system. So this is current in this is happening and is ongoing. >> How how long do we think that that analysis of compatibility will take? I'm hoping about in another um couple of weeks that we can get vetted because there's some reporting and just more information that's needed from our side to make sure that we're in connection and compatibly with our network through the state of Delaware. >> Yeah, some of this is state driven. >> Okay. >> The state will allow us to have this software um for budgeting. It's and

016that's kind of why [clears throat] this recommendation's been a little challenging. Mhm. >> Uh just for the fact that we're so reliant on the state and and what we can what software we can use with the state. >> Okay. >> Um I think I shared this at previous meetings that the current software system that we have for budgeting the first state financial is not a school funding system. It's a state accounting system. to and to that uh point I know through this whole process we've been talking about how the current system we're using doesn't doesn't bring data forward well uh for reporting uh and the current the system that you are implementing is that a system you see you'll be able to pull extract reports that have the breadcrumbs from the original data >> yes

017>> uh despite I mean not displayed unlike the the uh system we've been using in the past >> yes the system that we're currently using, a lot of things will have to be manual. We are still able to pull reports, but we're going to have to manually manipulate those reports to actually show the picture of where we stand. So, Aliv will help um align with more reporting and with this is specific to us. So, the implementation process will be directly aligned to what our budget is and what our budget entails in more detail. >> And then the human error of just translating data from one program to another will be eliminated. That'll be >> I wouldn't say it will be eliminated. Um it would be more efficient and or less likely to happen at all.

018>> Recommendation number three. Reports should be presented to the Appeoquin board of education earlier in the budget cycle, ideally in November or December after the final unit count instead of waiting until February. The director of finance will work with the superintendent on a process to address this recommendation. We will update this once we have a complete transition to our new director of finance. >> I just want to add that that won't be happening this year um just for the fact that we're in November with presenting an amended preliminary budget. Um we we're a little behind the curve this year just with the transition. So, it's not something that we're not taking that recommendation lightly, but I just want to make the public and the board aware that that won't be happening this year. >> Yeah.

019And to that, and this isn't about [clears throat] just real quick, um the challenge of not a not having a budget, uh is and it's not to your fault you came into this. Um are you still able to look at things clearly now and see what may be looking like it is going over bud budget even though there isn't a budget as far as your um having preliminary budgets? >> Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So we're still keeping an eye on you know keeping track on what our spending is and expenses even without the actual budget. >> Recommendation number four policies should be adopted that define how reports are compiled. sources of information used reconciliation to FSF and the FAC's review role direct the director of finance is working with the superintendent to address this

020recommendation. Currently the director of finance explains in detail the reports provided to FAC and the board so that understanding is gained. So is the opportunity there really around establishment of the policies themselves? Is that like when you say working with the superintendent to address this recommendation? >> I'm trying to understand what the gap is. >> So you want me to take that or >> from my perspective, we do have policies. We do have procedures. They just need to be updated. So when I'm saying working with the superintendent, I want to make sure that I'm in line with the superintendent um the strategies that uh the strategic plan of this district and also the policy speaks to not just the state of Delaware but also how ASD runs financially. So it is there and we are

021working on that. And then I think >> and we're also working on updating those policies or some things that we need changes we need to make to those policies. So they will be presented to the board once we get through edits on those. >> And that goes to the earlier point of fine-tuning the reports as what the FAC might want to see. They might be not getting something they want or um tailoring something that they are getting but maybe in a better fashion for them. Recommendation number five, to improve transparency, additional reports grouping operating units by funding source should be required either by the DOE or the district to ensure tax revenues properly align with expenses. This recommendation is being implemented in the fisc year 2026 budget. Ultimately, this recommendation will take time to achieve.

022the director of finance plans to implement a zerobased budget model for fiscal year 2027 that will provide more clarity and transparency concerning the budget for aquim school district. So I can speak more to this as I'm working with Dr. Chuck. Dr. Chuck has been taking the lead and the initiative to work with um the departments of developing the amended 2026 expenditure budget and he's already breaking those items out. For example, separating discretionary funds from non-discretionary funds within the budget. If there's, let's just say within the bud, somebody's budget, there may be five different things. Well, there may be five different now accounts that will be noted so people can easily look at the budget and see that. That's the plan that I want to take on in 27 as well in just a little more

023detail. Um, so that everyone knows essentially overall where our dollars are going. The transparency is shown. Mhm. >> Recommendation number six, the DOE should work with FSF developers to add automated reporting features to reduce reliance on manual entry which is inefficient and prone to error. The state of Delaware is currently looking into updating their system. Unfortunately, Appoquin School District is bound by the state system functions to execute our processes. The director of finance is looking to implement new budget model system called alivude that will assist in resolving this issue. And the last from the financial reporting state audit inquiry recommendation number seven. The district should improve the accuracy of their financial position reporting by requiring the fiscal officers and the FAC to review information before board submission, developing policies that define local expenses and projections

024tied to the approved budget and ensuring all board approved reports are submitted to the DOE on time with documented reasons for any changes as required by Delaware Code. The director of finance is currently working with the state to provide this report by the 15th of every month until the state says otherwise. The finance analyst will review when available the aspects of the report to ensure accuracy. So essentially the finance analyst that I have on my team, I am using her um as well to learn the reporting. So at times if I'm not able to do the report, she can do the report, vice versa. and we will kind of be tag teaming in that and being um spot-checking our internal controls with that. All right. Now, we're transitioning to the report the subject matter experts

025provide for us. Observation one, these are all all these recommendations are from observation one. So, I'll read the observation and then each recommendation and how we're addressing it. The budget format is not conducive to transparency or clarity around discretionary state and local funds. The recommendation number one for this is distinguish between discretionary and non-discretionary funds in the expenditure budget as much as possible. Avoid placing discretionary state and local funds in the same operating unit and program codes with non-discretionary state, local, and federal funds. So, how we're addressing this is the director of finance is currently working with Dr. Longfellow to begin allocating the budget in this manner. The director of finance plans to execute this process fully for the fiscal year 2027 budget going forward. I will also mention I'll just say that the amended

026preliminary budget will also show this when you see it next or this month later this month. >> Dr. Bros, the sneeze that you just mentioned at the outset. Who are those? Who are they? >> Dr. Chuck Longfellow and uh >> Oh, you're talking about our internal team. Okay. Hey, I thought you were talking about external sneeze. I'm not referencing. Okay, we're aligned. [clears throat] >> Recommendation two from this is create a chart of accounts documents accounts document that maps expenditure budget elements, operating units and program codes and appropriations. This is currently being fully implemented with the help of Dr. Longfellow. The director of finance will continue in this pattern for the fiscal year 2027 going forward. Recommendation three, explore school district budgeting software to reduce reliance on spreadsheets and to automate memor memoralizing sorry forecasting

027and allocation processes. The director of finance is currently in the process of implementing a budget system called al is currently being vetted through it. Recommendation four, if the district will continue to use spreadsheets for budgeting, provide meaningful notes and backup for others to check and fall forecasting errors. The director of finance provides this information on a spreadsheet created for the above mentioned items in the recommendation. So, we're we're providing our spreadsheet does have breadcrumbs that attach to the other documents and tie back into the first state financial system or into DSC. I saw I was getting weird looks on that. So, just the [laughter] >> That's just my face. >> Yeah, >> I I was like, "What?" >> Thank you, Dr. Rose. >> You're welcome. >> All right. So, I will be going over observation

028number two and the recommendations to follow for observation number two. Observation number two, the financial advisory committee, superintendent, and board relied on the work of a single individual resulting in a single point of failure. The re first recommendation for this is to reinstate the monthly cash flow, salary tracker, and operating unit program code expenditure reports and provide them to the FAC superintendent and board consistently every month. The director of finance is currently doing this. The next recommendation for observation two, employ multiple levels of review when preparing budgets and reports, prepare, reviewer, approver, etc. with signoffs. Our response to this is due to the current financial situation, director of finance does not have the personnel to be able to process this. The director of finance will need to rely on the superintendent to ensure accuracy of

029budgeting and projections. In addition, the finance analyst will also be part of the review process. We will collaborate with the former CFO Dr. Longfellow on the processes as well. The third recommendation for observation two provide training to staff and stakeholders on reading financial reports, important things to look for Delaware code and strategic approaches to budgeting. Our responses, the director of finance is currently providing this information as reports are presented. So essentially whenever I'm presenting a report or whenever I'm providing information I'm also providing the why behind it and all the information necessary for everyone to understand why we're doing what we're doing. And the last recommendation for observation two reinstate keeping notes or minutes of FAC meetings. The finance analyst is the notetaker for the FAC meetings. Each meeting an agenda for FAC is provided

030to the committee to review and the necessary documents are attached as well. Meeting minutes are taken by the finance analyst and the meeting and the minutes are approved by the FAC. Once approved, the minutes are signed off by the chair, co-chair, director of finance and finance analyst. All documents are available to the public on board docs. The link can be found on our district website under board section. Observation number three >> quick. So with the minutes and and I do appreciate the minutes being uh provided. Um part of the FAC's responsibility is to um say they review the uh documents and then um with any questions provide the questions to the board um if there's any in if they see any indiscretions. Uh are those questions part are going to be part of the minutes?

031are they going to be separate from the others. Are we I know we've reviewed minutes in board meetings and then some board meetings we have not reviewed minutes. Um which is fine either way but are those questions going to be part of the minutes? Are those questions going to be separate from the minutes? So if we don't review the minutes, we're still uh reviewing the questions. Follow the question. Do you follow that question? >> Yes. So I guess some of that can be determined at the next FAC as we try to form the roles and responsibility. But that's why I think it's also important for the chair or co-chair as you mentioned to be the board members so they can report back to the board on that. >> Gotcha. Okay. And I will say for

032the next meeting the questions um and concerns that were brought up I do have a document that I created that addresses those things which is attached to the FAC board um FAC agenda. So we can definitely >> okay >> um address >> observation three there's a lack of proper planning for expenditures clarity around cost of programs and transparency around how programs and staff are funded. Recommendation one from that implement a collaborative approach to budgeting where every program is costed out properly and prioritized prohibit will find the money as the answer. So currently as um Dr. Longfellow is building out the amended preliminary budget um he is meeting with the different departments. Um also if you remember that in early June we identified $2.5 million in cost reductions. He's also looking at those. And um also

033our current director of finance is working with Dr. Longfellow to address this and we'll be holding meetings as we start to plan for the FY27 budget. >> Thank you, Dr. Bros. Um um Mr. If I can just go back to your last comment in response to the minute question that Mr. Higgins raised. You said um at the end of your statement you said I also have a list of questions that were posed you questions that were posed when from whom? At the FAC meeting. So there were some things like clarifying one of the questions was about the role of the FAC committee and so I went back to find out the information on the website from the state of Delaware pretty much what's the role of the FAC committee. So bring that back to the

034committee to provide them with an answer that I did not have at that current time. So that's what I mean like any questions or concerns that were brought up. I do have a document that I just personally created with responses to that. >> But that's internal to the FAC. >> Yeah. >> My question was the questions going to the board from the FAC. >> That's that's Yeah, that was my question. Okay. >> Yeah. Um, so I guess just to kind of clarify, I guess the opportunity that I would be looking for is like let's use our board meeting as an example. Perhaps there's um, you know, giving you time and space to research, right? And so we had that meeting the second Tuesday. What's the cadence? Are we waiting? Are you bringing it back to

035FAC then back to the board? Like I'm just trying to understand kind of the path of solution that you you plan to take in order for us to kind of be able to close the loop from our perspective. Kind of what are your thoughts there? >> Yeah. um just from a perspective from the board or just from I'll start with my perspective is the thing of everybody being in the know. So when I come to the board to present the FAC meeting minutes like for approval, that's where I'll work with the superintendent to say, "Hey, here are the key points that we discussed. These were some of the things that FAC raised. This is was the answer and the response that we provided. If you want further um information, please let me know. I can

036answer right then and there or if I don't have that answer, I can go back and then provide that answer to you all on the next at the next meeting." So that's kind of my thought process is to give you like a overview. Like the last time I presented I think I give given you all overview that was kind of like the beginning of the meeting. We had some [clears throat] great conversation which we did um so that you all are also in the know of what's going on and it's not just me just saying oh here's the meeting minutes FAC approved you board approved you have some background and clarity. >> Yeah absolutely. I I just you know I I think that's really important um as you know we're all learning from this and

037kind of what we want to do differently and so the opportunity to have that exchange of information I think is critical >> um as something that I think from a from a board perspective that from my personal perspective that I want to do differently is making sure that there's that intentional engagement and exchange of information in a timely fashion. So, I appreciate that and understanding your process of how you plan to address that. >> Yes. And I and with addressing that, just so that you all know, that's something that um I will work internally with the superintendent to get his feedback because that may be something that he may want to just discuss with you, but I will definitely make sure that I communicate that information with him and report out to you. >> Yep.

038Yep. >> And to to the current observation free on uh clarity around cost of programs. So in a regular budget, I know this is a different odd budget year, programs are budgeted and the budget is approved by the board. >> If any if there's any addition to a program or or a program is expanded throughout the year that needs to be approved by the board regardless, right? So the you like you said define the money. Um it these programs and and the expanding and the expansion of the programs would need to clear the board first. And is this saying that that wasn't happening or you don't really know specifically if that's like say we wanted to expand a program and not now prior were was the district expanding some programs and not really checking to

039see if the money was there and just figuring oh we'll find the money is that what I'm reading >> no um so just a few things on that point so there's a budget line right for say it's curriculum as long as we fit what we're doing in that budget line, right? Like, so I guess defining a program is like important to define. So, say it's immersion and we're going to expand the immersion program, we would need to come to the board at least notify you that we're looking to expand the immersion program, but we wouldn't do that like midyear. So, that may be like a bad example. Um, just trying to think of like something that would be like a midyear like I guess like buying like we just had to last board meeting we

040had to look to buy six more buses. came to you for approval because that was outside of what was budgeted >> well was budgeted for the transportation. So things like that yes we we do come to you >> right >> and I believe just to add to that too it's also the [clears throat] look on preparation being proactive. So when it comes to the fiscical year 27 budget my plan is to set up meetings with the principles district leaders and talk through what they need in their budget. So when you're going from a preparation like being proactive the clarity around cost programs would then say okay well how much specifically if you need if instruction needs curriculum let's just say it's McGra Hill I'm able they're able to tell me okay McGraw Hill is going

041to cost us for a one-year contract $250,000 so I think this recommendation also ties to that and then once we go on and we build from that then we have trend data right so then like three years down the road we'll be back to evaluating Okay. Did McGraw Hill work or did it not work? If it did and we want to use it, we know that due to inflation, it's going to increase. So from that stance, when we do the preparation of budgeting, you all will know that. But just like what Dr. Barl said, like the bus will be an example. Or for example, if we open up a new school and we need three additional teachers to make that work, we will need to come because that also involves the budget amendment process. So

042if we had to pull from another department or area to put into instruction um if we needed new teach more teachers to assist with instructing our students that will also be referenced with this recommendation. >> So I mean when you get into people just some things. So usually the preliminary budgets presented in July but we don't get our September 30th count. We don't know what our funding is until September 30th. So if we're adding staff then we would have to come forward with a budget amendment at that point because our state revenue is going to change and also our local expenses will also go up at that point. >> Yeah. >> Recommendation to reinstate budget development meetings between financial staff, principles and district office leaders. I think we've covered this but director of finance will

043be doing this for the fiscal year 27 budget and implementing this process going forward. It's also happening currently. We missed a number. But the next recommendation, evaluate initiatives and programs on a regular basis for effectiveness, impact, and cost effectiveness. The director finance will work with the superintendent on plan to implement this. This is an ongoing thing. This is something that we're going to have to come back to you about. Like this is a big process. We are doing this in some ways now as we go back and we look at our course catalog. We're looking at our high schools. We're looking at uh different programs that are going on, but to have a defined process, we're going to have to come back to you on that one. >> Yeah, I think you may have just

044I think your response was probably in response to my facial expression, but I think it's I I think I'm really just struggling with the ambiguity of some of these, right? So, I appreciate the effort that you all put in in trying to like come up with an effective plan that you suspect will work. I think as I'm listening and reading through all of these, some of them are again very ambiguous. So, to be able to respond to them in in an impactful way, in my opinion, is challenging, but I appreciate the effort you [clears throat] guys are putting forward. So, we'll see. Yes. >> Yeah. I mean I think and as I said some of it we'll have to come back and we'll drill down in more to these um but >> yeah I think

045the drill down will present the right opportunities >> like Dr. Grant's point like the last one evaluate initiative and programs on a regular basis for effectiveness. I would imagine you're doing that anyway but um are you going to reinvent the way you're doing it doing on a more on a more regular basis? Um I mean I don't want to put you on the spot because I'm just asking you now and you come back to me later. But for an example, what does that look like? >> Yeah, I guess. Yeah, exactly. >> I'm going to use >> like some examples. So through time things happen, right? Like programs, initiatives, things like that come about. So at one point as a district, we had uh talent development. I'll use that as went out the referendum. Community supported

046talent development. We did talent development for many, many years. It was a line a line from the referendum was in our budget. Over time, it started to lose its effectiveness. So, we evaluated the program. We actually in a previous referendum went out to say, "Hey, we're looking to stop doing talent development." >> How do you know that's losing effectiveness now? Well, how do you ga again to that? How would you gauge that as an example? I mean, so I think from feedback from staff and from parents, um, >> we it just wasn't >> wasn't working >> working anymore at that point. Um, >> on twofolds on it was a time commitment in the school day and was also a financial commitment and it was a time commitment from staff as well, additional planning and things

047like that, >> right? So we've eventually like went away from it, but there's things that are added over time that are are there consistently like and so it's a little easier like say like a program at the high school like you add a pathway at the high school, >> right? >> You can kind of see the effectiveness of it or what's going on evaluated by the number of kids are in in seats in that in that pathway, >> right? >> You can string along the pathway for a while like we had a construction one when I first started. Well, eventually we had three or four kids in there, so we eliminated the construction pathway. We had like a a media pathway at the high schools. We eliminated that pathway. It's a little easier in some

048of that aspect to see because it's so kiddriven, >> right? >> But there's other programs and things like that that you do that take a little time and are harder to evaluate >> and we're frankly we don't have someone that's just evaluating programs in our system. Um, so we we do evaluate them, but it's not a consistent like every year we're like saying, okay, how's immersion doing? Is it meeting like its effectiveness? Like there's a cost to it. Is it meeting its effectiveness? Um, I'm trying to think of other I know earlier this year we we spoke about um there was pathways that were seven kids in a seat in each of the high schools and you guys come up with an idea. Hey, look, we're going to condense that into one school and allow

049kids that want to go to through that pathway. >> Give them the option, right, to go to that school. So, that would be an example of >> of of just kind of thinking on your feet um and and and uh >> you know, bending programs to for cost effectiveness and and and and effectiveness. Yeah. >> Second contrastly what programs if any are off the table >> like not >> for reduction >> for cost effectiveness I guess to use the words that are here on the what if any programs so it's one thing to assess a program for effectiveness right and it's another to consolidate reduce eliminate for cost effectiveness are there any programs under the cost effectiveness umbrella that will not be considered or is everything on the table? >> Can I get back to

050you on that answer >> please? >> Yeah. >> So strictly again so let me just restate that. So the examples that you just gave around the pathways and all of that you know so assessing them for effectiveness which also led to cost savings right and consolidating and things of that sort. My question is assuming that they are effective right are there any programs that are not will not be considered for reduction under the guise of cost effectiveness. >> Regardless of the cost >> yes regardless of the cost effectiveness. >> Right. >> Well, I don't think but let's be clear. It's one thing to say we're going to look at a program and make sure we're getting the most bang for the buck. In other words, are we spending the money most efficiently? Is it cost

051effective? I'm using air quotes for those who can't see me, but I'm now here. I'm happy to say. Um, but it's I mean, and we should do that for every program every day, right? Um, I I don't think just I mean, just because something might not be cost-effective may or may not mean that we have to ax it. I mean, there are things that cost money to do, but we have to do them. >> Well, that's my point. And so, I think what I'm I'll let Dr. bro's answer, but I there's a there's a I think a consideration that I'm looking to hear or a reassurance that I'm looking to hear for not just myself, but for the general public in terms of regardless of cost, >> regardless of cost savings, >> not everything is

052up for elimination, right? So, I'm not trying to like lead you down a certain path. I think as the leader, I'm just wanting to hear your opinion, >> your thoughts. So, for example, like after our initial like we did $2.5 million in reductions, Tim had baggage with the board. We had parents show up that were concerned that we were going to stop like supports for our RISE program or for our special education programs or a small group and it's actually the complete opposite of that. Like we're investing resources into that, investing into those programs because we have students that have needs. So definitely like when you talk about programs no matter what the cost we have to educate and we need to educate those students. So I think that's there. Um we have a gifted

053and talented program that's legislated like really like even with cost impacted by that we have to deliver on that program. Science of reading is another one where it's legislated at this point. Like we couldn't say, "Okay, we're just gonna we're gonna stop teaching the science of reading because it's a legislative program at this point." Um I mean those are programs as like off the top of my head that I think of that we're not going to address. Programs that we're going to have to look at is and we've had to look at this is like the foreign languages that we're offering. Some of that is hard time finding teachers in some of those foreign languages. Some of that is having a hard time finding kids that are interested in those languages. We I mean when

054Richard and I first started, we had to we eliminated German because it just wasn't we just didn't have the the kids that were going into that program, we eventually had because of lack of staff, we had to eliminate Italian um at our high school. So there's there's things like that that we're looking at and evaluating um immersion. So we had a particular school where emergent just wasn't filling and so we've had to have to stop the program there at that school and so but there's other schools where we have a wait list for >> but the kids at those school that school were able to go to the other schools where it's being offered >> right but there's yeah they're still going to the >> so I mean you know >> so I think to

055hearken back to my question then you answered it it's the high it's the commitment to the special education programs we're not looking to eliminate that. >> Exactly. And so I think it's important that we continue to reiterate that because I think sometimes that is a message that is often lost in translation. And especially as a parent of someone with a child that has um special needs, you tend to kind of default to that like how is my child going to be impacted? Is this a program cut? Not realizing that it's mandated. So thank you for that clarity. That's the I I I I think again it's important that we continue to remind the the public there are certain things that we are required to do and that we do happily for our students and for

056me that is one of them. So thank you. >> Well let's be clear we do everything happily right I mean in the sense that our job is to educate but educating kids costs money. So when we talk about cost effectiveness to my way of thinking that just means we're trying trying to find more costefficient effectiveness might not be the right word efficient ways to do the same thing. And if that means there's kids scattered at three high schools who all want to take the same class but we can't have that class separately at each high school. Yeah. >> They if they all went to the same high school to me that's effective that's efficient >> and that's a good solution. I mean, if the demand isn't there, then we're just, you know, there wasn't enough

057demand for German, period, all those years ago and and so it fell by the wayside. There were a couple kids, though, who really wanted to study German, but they just didn't have the critical mass. >> Yeah, I think I think that's important. I mean, I I think that kind of falls in line with the pathways conversation. Uh, for me, I think there's a there's a difference in consolidating a German class or eliminating it and providing resources to special education. >> I think Dr. birds pointed out some of these bagels board members that and again that's a you know large majority of the people coming are concerned about um if they if they have children that need additional needs and >> um it's not a financial >> problem it's a I think a physical resource problem

058yeah >> and uh we explain that to to the family so going forward yeah with the budgeting that that that issue is separate from financial it's physical physical >> resour I think it's a I think it's a an assumed correlation that is made. >> But right away I know Dr. Burrows when I when I watch it right away no it's not that is who he assures anybody that asks that is not the issue. The issue is we need to figure a way to retain our teachers and and and add to teachers. >> Yeah. And I think that message is only driven through reiteration. So thank you Dr. Burrows. >> No thank you. >> Thank you Mr. Higgins. >> Educators. I'm sorry. >> Yeah. Recommendation number five, establishes a position or function within the finance workg

059group to improve a procurement practices and contract review. The director of finance is working with the finance department to address this recommendation. The finance department plans to have meetings to discuss how to address procurement issues and create procedures to ensure cost-effective purchasing and contract reviews and implementation. So that's an ongoing Establish a board policy explicitly requiring superintendent signature on all contracts potentially with carefully thought out delegation levels but in no instant circumventing finance office review. The director of finance will work with the superintendent to address this recommendation. That one's a little more challenging because we're a district of such a large district. Um and I would we we've got to figure out a process on this. It would significantly slow down what we can do if I'm have to sign off on every contract. >>

060No, no. And I was going to say, I mean, it just seems to me that, you know, each school has a budget and I mean, my s, you're absolutely right. It'd be an administrative nightmare if everything had to go through a single bottleneck. Um, but the way you solve that problem is to put financial thresholds. So, in other words, any contract above, and I'm just going to not saying this is the number I believe in, but it's an example. Every contract $10,000 or more has to be signed off by the superintendent. Uh any contract for, you know, $2,000 to $10,000 has to at least be approved by our CFO. anything less than $2,000, as long as it's the money's there in in a school's budget, maybe the principal can sign it without having to bring,

061you know, have thresholds that way. And at some point, obviously, we have numbers that are so big that the board ought to uh to weigh in, but that would be a pretty big number. >> And that would be a work in progress. Like they could implement a right a policy and then Dr. Bars come say, "Hey, this isn't working." And then we >> Oh, yeah. We can change. And you know, when you look at state procurement laws, right, contracts above a c certain threshold have to go through the public bid, but if they're below that threshold, they don't have to go through the the public bid process. And so, um, you know, there's no reason why we can't implement something similar. It just seems like common sense. But to Dr. Grant's point, um, reading recommendations

062and then following up and actually implementing a plan to to to enact the recommendations are two different things. So, like to hear on when the district plans to or even the board plans to have a workshop or a meeting to to uh implement some of these recommendations, >> right? Observation number four, the referendum did not result in a surplus after covering the existing deficit. So the first recommendation for that observation is that Aquin School District has already committed to $2.5 million in discretionary spending cuts. Ensure these are actualized at least until the reserve is replenished. So currently director Vines is working with the superintendent and cabinet to ensure this is being actualized. And even though I'm new, I have sat in the cabinet meetings where there has been um discussion and there has been um

063direction on making sure these cuts are actually being actualized. So that is currently happening and Dr. Bars, you can speak to anywhere. >> We have a list. We we go at cabinet meetings, we make sure that we go through and we're actualizing those cuts because we don't want to get them lost. and um what's happening along with we've actually have exceeded that $2.5 million in reductions. Um so we we're hoping to see in the uh amended preliminary budget that those have come to fruition that we see those. So >> awesome. Recommendation number two, continue to implement the staff unit allocation tracking reconciliation process to ensure state funds are leveraged to the greatest extent possible. The director of finance and finance analyst currently has implemented a process to assist with this. So currently with coming on

064review, what we started is that we waited um until the 9:30 account so we actually had the official unit count. From there um myself and the financial analysts we set aside time that was allocated specifically to reconcile the unit count. So we went through for example needsbased like you get a unit for the superintendent assistant soup related services um social workers etc. We went and we tagged a person to that unit. Once we did that, we then looked at the classroom teachers. And when we looked at the classroom teachers, unfortunately, um, as I explained to the team is that when it comes to DSC, there's different reports that you can pull that will tell you different things about unit count. And that can be confusing. Um, right now in the process of this, um, we

065cabinet is working alongside with our finance analysts. the director of HR is meeting with all the principles to just verify their classroom teachers and their pair of professionals. Once we have vetted that, um I do believe our goal is this Friday to have that information. Um but once we have vetted that, then we're going to reconvene at the table at Unicount to really start um t you know tackling that reconciliation piece. So, we do have a plan that when we reconvene at Unicount that we will implement an ongoing standing reconciliation process at Unicount, but right now our goal is to try to reconcile, get to um a place that we all are comfortable with and then migrate from there moving forward to make sure that we are adhering to this recommendation. Um, recommendation number three,

066train senior Appquent School District staff on Delaware education funding so that so they can maximize state and federal funding usage to preserve local funds. The director of finance plans to provide this level of training once time is permitted for the director of finance to review thoroughly the state of Delaware education funding process. So there are the trainings that I have. For example, there was a training I held with cabinet on Monday where I went to explain kind of like the wise and best practices and financial practices. But a big thing that I note here with being at ASD is that we are really bound to the state of Delaware. So, it's important. It's going to take me time to learn the code and learn that information, but then also utilizing um what I do know

067at my level of expertise on how to leverage and best use our federal funds or other um revenue sources so that we can maximize on that. And recommendation four for observation four um work with the employee employee groups to help them understand the current situation. Director of Finance has held meetings with district leaders, principles, and finance secretaries to communicate this information. Observation five, budgets were adjusted in FSF and the monthly reports after the final budget without board approval. Appcoming school district should Apakcomic school district should require all changes to the original board approved budget to be reviewed by the FAC and approved by the superintendent and the board. The director of finance will work with the superintendent to update the budget policy to address this recommendation. This is one of the I shouldn't say many

068policy. This is one of the policies though that we're going to need to update and present to the board for approval. What is FS? >> Financial um financial. Oh, where you at? >> FS. >> First state financial >> system. That's the state. >> That's the state system. >> Yep. >> That we're hopefully not going to be using anymore. >> [clears throat] >> um amend board policy 5102 to more explicitly require budget approval of preliminary budget, final budget and amendments to the budgets as needed. This is back to the last one >> and the last observation is observation six. The district's tuition fund balance was in effect negative going into fiscal year 26 due to a $ 1.5 million bill payable to Christina school district for fiscal year 2025 services. So the first recommendation for this

069observation there should be a carryover built up on the tuition fund sufficient to provide for at least seven payrolls and any startup funds for goods and services needed through October. This number is about $4.5 million and should be treated as a reserve for the purposes of covering early year pay obligations replenished and carried forward each year. The director of finance will work with Dr. Chuck Longfellow on the best way to implement this recommendation. Recommendation number two, tuition expenses should be budgeted deliberately based on programmatic planning and sound forecasting principles. The the director of finance will work with Dr. Chuck Longfellow alongside with the executive director of student services and special education and the director of special education on the best way to implement this recommendation. >> Now, how much do tuition expenses which we really

070don't have any control over because right they're they're controlled by IEPs and stuff like that. I mean, how much adjustment happens during the course of a year after we've done our initial budget that, you know, obviously we'll adjust the budget, but you know, the thing about tuition taxes and getting to Dr. Graham's point, I mean, we're not being cost-effective when it come and by that I mean, whatever the special ed needs are, we meet them regardless and we have to meet them. So, I'm just curious in terms of budgeting how realistic it is or how much change occurs during the course of a year that we're going to have to get to. I'll say kind of on the fly. >> More than you think is the quick answer to that because any student that comes

071with any sort of significant need um we have to provide. So, in some cases that means expanding a special program or expanding a classroom. In some cases, um the student there may be a student need that arises or a new student that comes that may go through the ICT process, which is when um a student would go to an outside placement and then we have to we take care of if that's approved with the state. We take care of 30% of that and the state takes care of 70. There's also a gamble with that because if we go there and the state says no, then we're paying 100% for that placement. So it is a fair amount. It's not an easy line item to budget and that's why I think we need quite a bit

072of reserve in that account. So we're being very conservative with it. Now I'm I'm a big believer in reserves. Um and the and the other I'll say good news bad news is that we do have total control over our tuition tax rate. So if we do find ourselves having unexpected expenses in a year, we can adjust the tuition tax or the special education tax rate for the next year and and to so to the extent there was a deficit to Christina school district. I mean we were able I think we are able to meet that with the adjustments to the tax rates that we made going forward. >> Yes. And the other factor too that's difficult is there's no um standard rate or published rate on what other districts charge us. So when we send

073a student to another district or to an outside placement or program there's not a standard this is the cost and they can raise that tuition or that cost at any point. Um so we're we're sort of at their mercy also. Well, maybe we ought to try to get some guarantee of cost at least for the current school year so they can't raise it midway through the year, but that's a question for our lawyers, I think. >> Um, so before we proceed, I just need to double back to something. This is very kind of rudimentary, I recognize, but I'm just trying to connect a few dots because when I hear like um policy changes that need to occur, to me that seems very um straightforward, but I understand and respect that you all have to put

074thought into it because obviously there's a compliance component around a policy, right? Typically requires a procedure. And so am I am I kind of on pace with oh these aren't numbered but recommendation number three under financial reporting specifically reference references a timeline around the budget in November or December after the final unit count instead of waiting until February. Fast forward to observation five recommendation one and two also speaks to having like an budget a budget approval process for the board. But this specifically talks talks about policy. So for me, is it fair to assume that a policy could be put in place to kind of address kind of all three of these with the specificity of months? I know it won't happen this year. You were explicitly clear that it won't happen this year. And

075so when I think about your to-do list, >> and this is probably me definitely getting into the weeds, right? But when I think about your to-do list, that feels like a quick, easy fix for you to bring back to or you all to kind of bring back to us because you pretty much already answered it. So, it's just like translating it into policy. So, I'm just trying to understand kind of the will work with the superintendent component of it. >> I think for me, just in my experience, I don't want to rush that because we are a big school district and as I learn, I delve into more, there's more than I that I find out. There's more that I want to communicate to superintendent. There's more that I want to discuss with cabinet. There's

076more that I want to >> kind of bring everyone in to make sure that I'm covering all bases. Like, yeah, you're right. I could technically when I when we came, I think when I first started, we looked at the the board um policy. We looked at the budget policy. We looked at FAC. And as I started reading through and then I'm actually in it, I'm like, >> I could come to you all, right, and say, "Yeah, I looked at it. I reviewed it, but I can't I wouldn't be able to say, "Oh, this is accurate." I want to be able to work with the superintendent, bring forth a policy to the board that I can honestly say, "This is what we're doing. This is it touches all bases. There's no missing pieces." So that when

077going forward when I bring something back, you all are going to ask the question, well, Lisa, what changed? Because what I will present to you is what is current, what is actual, what's factual across this entire district. So yes, I understand that to your point, but for example, with how I'm implementing the fiscical year 27 budget, I've talked with the superintendent already that my goal is to have a preliminary budget by 6:30 26 for fiscal year 27. Right now, my plan is to hold meetings with district leaders and principles from November to February. Then March and May work with the superintendent and cabinet to vet all of that to then bring every a final preliminary approved expenditure budget by June. So that also does affect the timeline when you're talking about budgeting. So that's kind

078of that November December that's kind of different with the model of what I'm doing. So I want to make sure that I'm not bringing confusion so to speak, but it's more act it's more actualized when it comes to the policy. And yes, the procedures, that's another thing. Working on that so it touches all bases because my goal is the procedure should align with anything, whether it's HR, whether it's student services, whether it's at Lurwood, whether it's at um our adult education um center, it really should align districtwide. So yes, I could, but I feel as though I would be doing this district a disservice by bringing forth for policy that's not fully vetted. >> Yeah, I I c Oh, I 100% can appreciate that. I guess I and not at all trying to forfeit compliance

079or anything of that sort or put it at risk. I think I'm just more so trying to now better understand the expected timeline of when we should receive communications. Like as I again as I try to connect these dots from the first few slides to these recommendations going forward, I'm not clear on the timeline going forward. So, Dr. Bros, um, perhaps we can just kind of I think I just need a better outline and it's literally just like by this date you can expect this, by this date, like it's just that timeline. Um, again, just learning and me knowing kind of what I want to do differently in this process. um given you know given kind of where we are I think it's being really clear on timelines and holding to them and understanding the

080expectations. So thank you for that. >> So our next board meeting is what two weeks >> I mean is >> or three because of the holiday >> two it's it's uh >> aren't we pushed back >> three weeks three weeks >> because of veterans. >> So that's right. So I mean is it realistic to think you might have these timelines that Dr. Graham is asking about by our board meeting in three weeks. >> Can't on some of this stuff. Some of it I don't know if I can give a definite timeline, but we can say the work that we've done and where we're going with it. >> Okay. >> But the pol like I mean to the point on policies like I don't want to keep bringing want to have some definance in the policy.

081I don't want to keep bringing the policy back. Policy aside, I think I'm more so just wanting to now better understand by what date will we have this, you know, preliminary review. Like that those are the dates that I'm looking for. Policy aside, I'll leave that to you guys. When you guys are obviously I trust that you're not going to take months to bring it back to us. So policies aside, I think now I'm most interested in making sure I have a clear understanding of timeline so we know where the accountability kind of lies, right? >> Thank you. >> Absolutely. So, I think that's fair to have in three weeks. Yep. >> Okay. >> Recommendation three, the district should bill other districts per the Newcastle count Newcastle County PreKU as permissible. The director of finance

082will work, Dr. Chuck Longfellow on the best way to implement this recommendation. The reason why this is stated is because I need to work with um Dr. Longfellow like as um Dr. Dr. Girdle stated there's no standing set cost, you know, per student when um students are receiving those services. So, I want to be able I want to make sure that I work with him to vet what that is. And my plan is to kind of like come up with our internal process of that. Um so, I'm hoping to make sure that I can get that information from him. And then recommendation four, which is the last Yep. Before I move off that, so this is something we could have been billing other districts and we haven't been. Do we have an idea of how

083much money we've been leaving on the table? >> I uh I I have the answer to that one. Yes, we could have been. We've been leaving 50 to $60,000 a year on the table. >> All right. Well, every little bit helps. So, uh uh that's that's good to know. >> But but other districts are billing us for the same. Oh, they're not missing the opportunity. >> Yeah, but we're not doing that now. >> Basically, I've not been doing that. >> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if that's completely accurate, but >> Okay. >> I can get definite answers for you on that, >> but we are build by some districts. I'm I'm not sure if we're build by every district. >> We're just reading the recommendation. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. [laughter] And the last recommendation, the

084district should report tuition fund balances to the FAC superintendent and board throughout the year. The statemandated financial position report only covers discretionary operating funds, which does not include tuition tax funds. The director of finance plans to implement this once better controls are in place for the tuition tax funding. >> So, let me just follow up real quick on that though. So the the required carryover that we're h required to have all at all times in the bank two pay is two payrolls right and so when we have to have two payrolls in the bank at all times that includes our uh educators involved in special education right >> yes but there's also some of salary expenses comes out of the tuition >> well that was going to be my point. So, yeah, we need to

085figure out and make sure that when we're reporting how much money we have to cover payrolls, if we're allowed to use special tuition tax money essentially to cover a portion of the payroll, that that portion that we're allowed needs to be part of the uh the the balance that we report to the state. Correct. >> Scott, you were reaching for your mic. >> Yeah, that the um the tuition is different than the current expense that so so there is not a requirement that there's two payrolls for tuition however at the end of the year that was one of the recommendations to have a carryover for that so that we can cover going >> well no but my point is if the carryover is all of our payroll that pay then that payroll if it's all

086of our payroll includes our special ed teachers Right. >> The one the one from the Are you talking about the financial position report? >> Yeah, the financial position. >> No, tuition is not a part of that. >> I know tuition isn't, but my question is is the money we pay the special ed teachers part of that >> if they're if they are state units. Yes. >> Okay. So, >> but if they have t if the tu if their local portion is tuition, no. Say that again. >> If the lo the local the local portion of a a special education teacher could be either state or local. If it's state, then it's included. If it's tuition, it is not. >> So, >> Chuck, can you jump in if you >> So, an example of that are

087some of the teachers are with intense or complex kids, >> their local portion comes out of tuition tax. And so that local portion does is does or does not have to be included in the in the carrier in the funds we always have to have on hand. That's my point. >> To my knowledge, no. But Chuck and Scott, if you >> Yeah. So the financial position report only measures where you stand according to your what's called state and local discretionary funds. tuition tax is not counted as a state or local discretionary fund. So, it's not considered at all in that financial position report. Uh we think that's a weakness of how the state um advises I guess boards to to look at their their finances. We think that >> No, you should. >> Yeah. No,

088Chuck, I get that part of it. In other words, the tuition tax is not part of the discretionary funds we can spend on anything. If we raise tuition tax, it has to be spent on special ed. And I get that and I agree with it. We don't want to be intermingling those funds. That'd be a disaster. But in terms of figuring out how much of a balance we have to carry over, right, then you're looking at two payrolls, right? And so my question >> so not not in this case because um the part of part of what you get for the state and local discretionary funds is equalization funds. And so that's a nice chunk of money that Appeoquinamment gets to carry them through to um you know toward October when they receive their um

089big you know their big tax receipts on the tuition side. There is no there is no equalization that happens. So, you've got to if you're going to be charging tuition fund for staff, you've got to have money in the bank day one um that's going to cover you largely through the time you get your big tax receipts in October in a typical year. This is not a typical year. Um or else you're going to go negative pretty soon. >> Well, yeah, but let me see if I can ask my question a different way because I'm either I'm just not understanding or I'm not being clear. Let's say we've got I'm just going to use round figures to keep the math easy. Let's say we have a 100 teachers including special ed teachers in Aquinamic and

09010 of those hundred are special ed teachers. When I'm figuring out what the carryover balance is for the financial position report, my understanding has always been that whatever a payroll is for our staff, for our teachers and our staff, I have to have two payrolls in the bank. So my question then is when I'm figuring out what that payroll is that I have to have two of in the bank, am I basing it on all 100 teachers, including the special ed teachers, or am I only basing it on the other 90 teachers? >> 90. >> Okay. So the special ed teachers don't count for the payroll purposes at all in terms of the carryover for the financial position report. the ones that are eligible for tuition that you tagged a tuition. Yes. Same with federal.

091I mean, you don't include federal funded pe federally funded people in there. Um, state grant funded people and all that kind of stuff. I mean, they're just a different >> So, so the payroll that gets paid with these other funds is not part of the payroll calculation for the car for carryover. That's that's what I wanted to make sure. >> Correct. Correct. Yes. So what you want to to track that what you want is the salary tracker report to look at that so you can see how much each pay is coming out of our local discretionary funds or the budget line and then you can see how much is coming out of tuition tax and you can see the percentages as it's spent down. I don't know. I I got I I was thinking the

092way it was first described, we were put taking all the payroll and counting that towards the carryover even though there was money in other funds that could be used, but that's not the case. So, I'm I'm satisfied. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Chuck, are you ready to or I guess we need our uh outline? >> Yep. Is it our turn? Okay, I'll share and I'll get started. And we have 13 minutes it looks like. Right. We're done at >> Actually, we're down to 12. >> 12. Okay, we'll get started. Let me share this. Um, so we definitely won't get through the what we've had planned, but we'll we'll make some progress and then you all can decide whether you want to um continue this. Um, just uh I I know that everybody at the table

093knows Scott and myself, but Scott, just uh for the viewers who are going to watch this later, just tell a little bit about yourself. >> Sure. I'm Scott Kessle. Um, I'm one of the subject matter experts. I was formerly a uh CFO for Brandy Wine School District, not Red Clay, but Caesar because I keep on seeing red clay in the in the documents. But um uh but uh I retired a few years ago and I'm back here to help. >> Thanks. And Scott was also at Department of Education in their finance department there for a bit. Um I'm Chuck Longfellow, a former CFO at Apaquinnamink and Christina school districts and former associate secretary of education for operations support at DOE which included the finance area. So um what we want to and if anybody if

094if we need to stop and discuss or answer questions somebody stop me because you guys are very tiny on my screen. Um high level we want to review the read ahead. Um and our theme pretty much is show me uh trust but verify. We want to talk about what to verify and how to verify it and then see if there's next steps. But I think next steps is probably going to be the second thing. um we want to give you a sense of what to ask and how to verify it. So the first thing on uh in general our read aheads we want to make various points. This is kind of like our bottom line up front and you guys had some great conversations just now that really aligns with this and I you know

095I don't want to be too much of Captain Obvious. I don't want to I'm not here to tell you all how to be um great board members. You all know that I'm sure way better than I do. But it's some of it's going to confirm what you already know. Um so u some of the points we want to make is that you you want to ask questions about the key financials and the money's impact on learning and other outcomes. Get familiar with the research and the levers that improve student outcomes. Money is there to improve student outcomes. It's not there for any other purpose that I know of at a school district. You want to improve student outcomes. Um program evaluation and return on investment analysis is essential. You dabbled in that a little bit

096today. Um but you got to do it. You you got to have that um embedded in the culture. Develop that capability. Um look at other Delaware districts and beyond and make sure you're asking the district for what you need. And this we talked a lot about policy. Board policy sets and documents the expectations for the reports and who does what in the financial and program evaluation areas. You aren't necessarily going to micromanage through policy, but um you know sometimes you hear about policy coming up from the district as a recommendation. You also as the governance arm of the district, you have um a role in you can push policy down. you can take policy and mold it to what you want and what you need for the district and find those examples all over the

097place for that. Um, you know, the board's role, we talked about policy and governance, you know, how deep do you really get into it? Um, what should be somebody else's job or role? You know, do do you do you get into micromanagement? No, that's not really what you're there to do. Um when we talk about what happened and what brought us to this point, um we Scott and I, we we admit it's very difficult to see it coming from the board seat. But, you know, if you take a if you hammer on that policy and you mold it to um what you need it to be, you can um you can make policies that can increase the likelihood of catching it. And if it's not you catching it would be the financial advisory catching it

098or a citizen catching it before before it gets too big. And um you know we can build help you build knowledge to enable you to ask pertinent questions but I hear a lot of good questions already. Um the first brief read we had is something from I think the Brookings it's the Brookings Institute talking about they did a study on what boards focus on as far as um budget deliberations. They found that many many board members or trustees are not actively participating in the scheduled budget workshops. You know some some will ask a couple questions but that's about it. Um budget approvals are on autopilot and this is nationally. I'm not saying that this is epoquinimic but this is nationally and that some a lot of times budget deliberations lack mentions of the key considerations.

099So if you take a look here at this figure [clears throat] um these are some of the the uh key topics for budget deliberations what should be key topics and when they did their study of 174 school districts in 2023. This is the percentage the dark number um the dark part of the bo board here is the percentage where this was discussed and the light part was not. So take a look at these things and you know just decide when you when we have budget talks what what what discussions do you want to have and a lot of these aren't going to be things that can be answered on the spot especially now with our current budget process but I believe that as um as Miss Stewart gets more um into more collaborative budgeting zerobased

100budgeting a lot of these things will be discussed in the budget process and you'll be able to to hear what they did um these things anything really is fair game. Um, as long as it's legal, ethical, all that kind of stuff for you to ask. Um, so these are some things that, you know, keep in mind to to ask. Potential questions to raise at a budget hearing right here. Topics, uh, things on the topics of outcomes or effectiveness of prior budgets, uh, cost relative to value, ROI. It's not a sin to it's not a it's not a sin to bring ROI into educational discussions. um that's not exactly what we're what what drives us necessarily, but it's it's fair game. Uh in school by school impacts, impacts on groups and multi-year financial impacts. That's kind

101of hard to do in Delaware with so many strings attached to the dollars we get. Um and with with the politics driving that, but to the extent we can, uh we have to do that to know when is the next time that referendum cycle's going to hit us. We've we've got to do that. So, um you know, you'll get a copy of this and you have you have the link to the um to the read ahead where you can go back and look at these questions again. Number two, um special ed. We had a read ahead on special ed. It's it's one of the biggest cost drivers in education these days. It's uh this article, it's consuming a growing share of public school dollars. Is it helping? um under considerations, we put some of the

102things that we've heard from um from board members and other groups over our time working with the district. We know that um we've heard that it it is a moral and public responsibility to support the the needs, but the costs are increasing and they're real costs. And we know that human resources are limited, money's limited, although um theoretically it's unlimited through um you know through a tax rate, but it is limited because if you if you just keep raising taxes, your your community is not going to not going to like that. We know that. um you know, what things have the districts done to meet this this um this challenge? That's not a question to answer tonight. That's just things to think about. Are there proven services and strategies we could shift resources to? You

103know, are there ways that we can optimize our programs or shift um shift things we're doing now? Um and I'll I'll go through some of the I have a quote from the article below here. this graph it it um shows us from 1314 to 2223 um the increase in in uh students with disabilities in schools even though enrollment's falling. So I know that the scale is not quite well it's a percentage scale so and on a percentage basis you can see what's happening there. Here's the quote that we took out of this article. Historically the tendency has been to look the other way on spending for special ed. It is what it is. we have to do it. It's in the IEP. We're obligated. But when you think that way, um it it kind of

104keeps us from um scrutinizing these investments. You know, are we optimizing our spend? Are we looking at case loads? Are there ways to do things programmatically that will conserve funds or even improve um things uh um programs for the way we have? I don't want to say that aquinomic doesn't do that, but you know, the board could ask these questions. what have we done? What do we do? What have we done? What changes have we made? Um the article also finds that with all with higher investments in special education, reading outcomes aren't going up. They do find um through their research, better reading instruction for all students is associated with better reading outcomes for students with learning disabilities. Look, I'm just a CFO and ops guys, but you know, I'm a junk I'm I'm a

105junkie when it comes to this research. I I read this stuff and I want to know where what levers does the money what levers does the money pull as far as um outcomes for kids. And I know that that's what you uh think about too with four minutes left. Um our third read ahead was something called the grid from the Edenomics lab. I love the Edenomics lab. I think that if you um if you like education finance or you're interested in it, you should go to their site and subscribe to their stuff. They got good stuff coming out all the time. Um, some considerations for us to think about. Do does and if so, how does the district evaluate and assess programs for effectiveness? Does the district eliminate or shrink ineffective programs or less effective

106ones to reallocate resources to more effective and promising programs? But we know that there's some that we don't want to touch. So even for those do we have a continuous improvement mindset to renew the impact on students and to optimize efficiency and then strategies for that zerobased budgeting is one of them that we um that we've heard about and then tools like the grid from this article. So when you go to this article you'll see the grid they've got a blank one for you. This is just one framework for evaluating um impact and and you know get getting toward an ROI measure. Um what's the investment? It's a it's a program or it's a you know it's a it's a program or a package of work or initiative. Major cost factors, you know, how does

107the money I'd also put funding source in here too. Estimated number of students served. Cost per participating student. Desired outcomes. estimated effectiveness, high, medium, low, risks once implemented, is it working? You go back and take a look. You check the data. Um, and just because you invested in something doesn't mean you need to continue it forever. Um, if it doesn't work, then you know, cut it and and try something else or reduce it or morph it. That's so use these kind of tools. I am going to stop now and just see because I know um I know 7:30 is coming up. If y'all tell me to keep going, I'll keep going. If not, we can um punt the rest of this to the next another session sometime. >> I mean, >> we can we can

108schedule another time, Chuck, to come back and finish out the training if that works for you. and Scott. >> Yeah, works for me. Works for you, Scott. >> Sounds good. >> I mean, and possibly maybe we could do it like either before our November meeting or before our December meeting or right after our November meeting or right after our December meeting and not have to take a separate day at least from a board's perspective. Um, but yeah, why don't we do that because this seems like a natural break point >> would that Oh, go ahead, Mr. Parson. >> No, and I was just gonna say again, I mean, we've said it a couple times, but I want to again thank Chuck and Scott for all the thought and effort that they've put into this. It's

109uh it's really been helpful. Would that um would that next meeting include our feedback and stuff that we provided via email so we can get to like a comprehensive okay next step. Okay. All right. Sounds good. Thank you. I think that's what I was I was very much looking forward to that. So Okay. All right. Thank you. >> All right then. With that, does anybody else have any final comments? Hi. Um, we had talked we had spoken about having the uh fin the uh the finances available online prior to the board meeting. Um, so the public can read prior to a board meeting. Uh, and they wouldn't be approved. They would be, you know, I I don't know if we were doing that or that's something we're still talking about. Should we look forward to

110that or >> we haven't imple Sorry, we haven't implemented that yet at this point, but I I mean I think we can that's something that we can consider as we move forward. >> And second, um financial advisory committee meetings are now public, right? Am I right about that? >> Yeah, they've been public. Yes. >> Always been public. >> Th those packets I would say they're expensive, but they're pretty thick. I wouldn't expect you to have copies of those packets for anybody to follow along, right? cuz you guys do put it on the the screen anyway, >> right? So, it's more for the members of the committee, >> right? >> And we're working on that to possibly not >> be providing all that paper if possible, but we're working with the committee on that, >> right?

111Okay. That's all I have. >> All right. Anybody else? Well, I apologize. I was in traffic for 75 minutes, but I did make it. And I want to thank everybody for coming and being here. even if you didn't say anything in particular, I I just think it's helpful and it shows how important all of this is to everyone in the district. So, um unless anybody has further comments, I'm going to bang the gavl and we are adjourned.