Sycamore Schools Board of Education Meeting May 21, 2025

001flag of the United States of America and to the stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. At the beginning of every meeting, we like to go over our district's mission and vision. Our mission is to create a culture of academic excellence through inclusive and innovative learning opportunities for the whole child and our vision is to empower all learners to reach their full potential in a globally competitive world. Can I please get a motion and a second for the approval of the agenda? So moved. Second. Thank you Dr. James for your motion. Thank you Mr. Balant for your second. Mrs. Logan, please call the role. Dr. James, I Mr. Balance. Hi. Dr. Steager. Hi. Mrs. Bidder. I can I please get a motion and a second for the approval of the

002minutes? So moved. Second. Thank you, Dr. Steager, for your motion. Thank you, Dr. James, for your second. Again, please call the role. Dr. Stager, I. Dr. James, hi. Mr. Balant, I. Mrs. Bidder, I. The next item on the agenda is public participation. We have any Mrs. Logan, do we have any public particip? We have two that have signed up for public participation. One um is during is based on a topic of the agenda during policy um and the only other one that I have signed up for non-aggenda items is Ellen Owens. So Ellen, hello Ellen. Owens, thank you for being here. Would you like to You don't have to stand. You can stay seated if you like or you can stand. You have three minutes. I'm I'm fine. Okay. Yeah. She's not Oh, you're She's

003not going to talk. Oh, you don't want to do public? Okay. You would like to wait. Okay. Okay. Sure. All right. Um our next um item on the agenda is the we have two next items, so I'm going to say this equally. Okay. They're always the best parts of our meeting. Um, we have a recognition for the Sycamore High School chess team state champions this evening. So, we are very, very excited to have you here this evening. Mr. Lewis. Yeah, we'll invite coach up and Yeah. Tell us about the accolades that happened this year. Evening, Mr. Lewis. Board members, community members. I'm Scott Eckert. I'm a sophomore grad from 94. my parents and four current aviators and I'm very proud to be a coach of the JV and varsity chess teams at Sycamore High School.

004Um you may know that Sycamore has I believe the lowest enrollment of any school in the GMC. Uh but despite our small student body, we have a deeply talented and fiercely competitive chess team. Uh this year our varsity kids handed Mason its first regular season loss in five years. We went on to tie Mason for the GMC title, ending their eight-year streak as soul champions. Nice. And uh our kids weren't finished. Last month, many of them traveled to Columbus to take part in the Ohio State Chess Championship where Sycamore not only beat Mason, but beat every other high school in the state of Ohio. So, four of our varsity kids represented Sycamore in the most competitive the championship section and we'd like to recognize them today. They are sophomore Leo Zimiku. Stand up. Yeah, come

005on up. Sophomore Adweight Nyer. Junior team captain Hari Natur. And our top board player this year who is among the strongest chess players in the nation. Uh just an absolute monster on the chess board. That is sophomore Aikari. Coach Eard, I have some questions for these gentlemen. Number one, you're s a lot of you I heard sophomores. So, you've raised the expectation so high already wearing winning a state title as sophomores. So, two more times. See what I mean? And people are already expecting you to win two more times. But, um, couple of things. Number one, congratulations. Um, it's a huge honor. Um, number one, we love when we hear we beat Mason in anything. So, that's fantastic. U, but to win at the state level tells you the competition you had in your own

006league. Um, so we like to recognize state championships with gifts. So, I give each one of you one of these and then let you open it. And then coach, we have extras because we know we recognize that kids participate, but there's also a team and we want to make sure that there's enough for you in the family. So extra sure in there as well. So if you open it up and take a look, it's you know, just a nice uh I'll say memory and you know, you're not expected to wear it. It's obvious, but we do think that it's important to make sure that you get the recognition that you deserve. So, um, when did you guys start playing chess to be able to be this good? Um, I guess I started, uh, getting lessons

007and playing competitively like around eighth grade. I kind of started around second grade. Did he say eth? Eighth grade. That's what he said. You started in second grade, but you really started playing competitively in eighth grade. Fantastic. How about the rest of you? Um, I started around like six or seven years old. Fantastic. How about you guys? Competitively two years ago. Two years ago. Yeah. Me as well. Years ago. And where did you when did you guys decide that competitively was the way to go? Like what was the decision point? Like you just were beating everybody at a casual level and said, you know what, it's time to take my balance to the next level. What was the decision making factor there? Um yeah, I definitely was making better decisions and playing at a higher

008level than I was before. So, I kind of started taking more seriously and I kept kept increasing my rate. Who was the toughest competition throughout the whole run? Um, I'd say just like mostly adults because like they've had so much experience, you know, like and when you face them, like even if they're like uh similar to you, they might know a lot more just because they've been playing for so long. True. Been around a lot longer. I will tell you, I played Harardi twice the summer before he was a ninth grader. I barely beat him in those matches. I will never be able to beat him again. That's phenomenal. We'll play well. Well, guys, congratulations. Let's give him one more round. Expectation sky. So yeah, thanks guys. Coach, thanks for all you do. Guys, what

009one more thing before you leave? Did you bring parents with you tonight? Can your parents please stand up so we can recognize you and thank Mr. long. Did you can you do you mind getting a picture of those young men and their coach so we can post that? Congratulations. That is that's awesome. Really awesome. Amazing. Our students are doing amazing things all the time and I I absolutely enjoy having having families come in and thank you for being here. Okay, the next amazing evening uh scheduled event for this evening is a Sycamore Advisory Commission research project on a very very important that our board has has been talking about for years and we feel like every year we're getting closer and closer and closer and to figuring out how we might be able to do

010this in Sycamore and I feel like we're getting there and we just have been given a wonderful uh presentation. So um we are going to be hearing about healthier starts a sycamore schools initiative. Where would you like us to stand because otherwise we don't want to back to you as well a little bit by the Titanic but not that far. All right. And then our presentation we want to make sure that is shown to the audience as well as us the little how do we or do you want us to go and if you want to like come one clicker. Oh it's a clicker. Click the clicker. Sorry. Okay. Thank you everyone for being here today. We are going to kick it off with our presentation of healthier start times. My name is Isa and

011I am a sophomore at Sycamore High School. I'm Annie Swanson. I am a Sycamore alum, class of O2, and I have two little ones. My daughter has her last day at preschool at SIMS um tomorrow and will be headed to Montgomery Elementary. And then I have one coming through the school two years later. Good evening everyone. My name is Amy Mi. I have two children at Sims Elementary, a current first and third grader. Hi everybody. I'm Amy Acriman. I'm also an alumni, class of 97, and um also a mother of three uh three different buildings, the junior high, Green School, and Blue Ash Elementary. And I'm Kristen Anderson. I have a long extending history at Sycamore. My uh grandmother-in-law taught at Montgomery for 30 years. My father-in-law was a um counselor at the high school.

012My husband is an alumni and um I am a choir director at the Green School and I have two children also in the district. Okay. So we what we are going to start off today is I gathered information from students at the high school and basically I asked all of them a generic question and I asked them all how many hours of sleep are you getting each night? So here's the information we got from that. Hey, so we are going to start off with some statistics. So starting here, the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that teens get 8 to 10 hours of sleep each night. Most teens need approximately just over nine hours to truly feel and function at their best. However, the problem is that we treat eight hours like a goal when that

013is the minimum for our students. A common misconception is that teens need sleep when they get older. However, this is not necessarily true. All right. Four out of five Ohio teens report getting less than eight hours of sleep on school nights. For Sycamore, that means about 1,900 students aren't meeting the minimum for healthy sleep. Yet 71% of parents mistakenly believe their teens are getting enough rest. This gap matters because chronic insufficient sleep is connected to lower academics performance, more absences, and mental health concerns. This is one of our most important reasons right here. So teens who sleep less than eight hours are nearly three times more likely to attempt suicide than those who get at least nine. That's not just a statistic. This is a wakeup call. We need to take a stance and really

014take a stance at this. When teens are consistently sleepd deprived, their mental health suffers. Sleep isn't just about academics or behavior. It's about keeping our kids safe and supported. The connection between sleep and mental health is clear and well documented throughout this presentation. And when sleep continues to fall short, the consequences are devastating. So earlier this evening, we talked about the vision and mission of Sycamore and reconsidering start times is more than a health init intervention. It's a direct expression of our vision. boosting academic excellence. Um, if we prioritize sleep and align school with adolescent development, we are improving focus, memory, attendance and performance. Supporting the whole child through better mental and physical health, emotional regulation, reduce stress, fostering innovation and engagement by helping students arrive rested, curious, ready to contribute, and finally preparing for

015a global future by embracing research-based best practices that reflect the world's top performing systems. This is a universal design solution that serves all learners and brings us closer to the mission we we're committed to. So this next slide here takes a little closer look at the science. As adolescence enter puberty, their biological clock shifts by about 2 hours. It's not about screens or teenage attitude. It's a natural hormonal change. Melatonin is released later. So they don't feel sleepy until around 11 p.m. And that can that delay can happen all the way into their 20s. This chart shows the biological shift in sleep patterns as teens enter adolescence. The green curve reflects their natural sleep cycle. It shifts later for both falling asleep and waking up. But school starts early, so teens are forced to wake

016up before their brains are ready. That mismatch leads to chronic sleep loss shown in the black on the bottom. It's not just about losing sleep. It's about losing the most important kind of sleep. When sleep is cut short, teens miss out on their REM sleep, which happens later in the morning hours. REM is when the brain replenishes neurotransmitters, supports emotional regulation, and consolidates learning and memory. In other words, they are missing the very stages of sleep that matter the most for academic success and mental health. So, we have a timeline here. School starts at 7:20 a.m. for the high school, but many of our students are starting their day earlier than that. Our first bus pickup is at 6:01 a.m. over an hour before class even starts. And to catch that bus, most teams are

017waking up around 5:00 a.m. To get the recommended 9 hours of sleep, they need to be asleep by 8:00 p.m. I don't know about you, but I don't know very many teenagers that are asleep by 8:00 p.m. And their biological clocks are not even making them tired until 10:30 or 11. So, as teens are getting up and even driving to school, they're still in their deepest stages of sleep. That 5:00 a.m. wake up for them is like 3:00 a.m. to you and I. Their melatonin levels are high and their alertness is low. We're putting sleepdeprived new drivers on the road every morning. And in districts that delayed their start times, research showed a 16.5% drop in teen car crashes. And we have a handout for you in a second as well pertaining to that. The

018bottom line is we're operating on a schedule that works against adolescent biology and we have the power to change it. Thank you Isa and Kristen for sharing the science. It really is very compelling. But this isn't just an academic theory. It's a recognized public health concern, which is why leading medical organizations, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, the CDC, and the American Medical Association, have taken a united stance, recommending that middle and high school should start no earlier than 8:30 a.m. This isn't a casual suggestion. It's a researchback intervention designed to reduce chronic sleep loss and realign school schedules with adolescent biology. So, where does Sycamore stack up? Let's start right here in Hamilton County. There are 60 high schools in the area, and only four of them. Mount Healthy, Princeton, Sycamore, and Taylor High

019School start before 7:30 a.m. The average start time among high schools in the county is 8:01, and a majority, 67% now start after 8:00. Next, we looked at the top 25 public high schools in Ohio based on this year's NE rating. These are academically rigorous, high-erforming districts, and among them, Sycamore starts the earliest. What's also striking is the 80inute range in start times across these top schools. It tells us two very important things. First, there is flexibility. We do have options. And second, later starts are fully compatible with academic excellence. Even if we can't shift all the way to 8:30, moving the needle past 8:00 would bring us more in line with our high achieving peers and closer to what research and recommendations support. So, we know that Sycamore or how Sycamore compares locally and

020across Ohio and the national data tells a consistent story. According to the US Department of Education, only 8.9% of public high schools start before 7:30 a.m. This means that 91% of schools start later than we do. Our our start time isn't just early, it's consistently out of step with local, state, and national standards. The good news is we're not alone. More than a thousand school districts nationwide have already shifted to later start times. Their experiences offer a clear roadmap for implementation. We don't have to start from scratch, and their outcomes prove that this change is both practical and effective. Nationwide, the average high school start time shifted from 7:59 in 2017 to 8:07 in 2021. This is according to the National Teacher and Principal Survey. It's a clear sign that change is already underway and

021we can expect continued momentum with new data set coming out soon. For the first time, middle schools are starting slightly earlier than high schools on average, a shift from past cultural norms. This is a good reminder that it's okay to do things differently than we always have done, especially when the research and the results point to a better way. And then finally, momentum is growing at a policy level, too. California and Florida, states on opposite ends of the political spectrum, have passed statewide mandates that for later school start times. Several other states are actively considering similar legislation. At a federal level, Congress has introduced the Z's to AIDS act directing the Department of Education to study start times and recommend national guidelines. This is a rare example of a bipartisan consensus because the science is

022so clear and the benefits are so broad. Here in Ohio, a bill to require start times, later start times was introduced but stalled during the pandemic. Still, advocacy advocacy efforts continue and momentum is building. If we wait, we may end up reacting to a decision that's been made for us. But by acting now, we have an opportunity to lead the change. on our own terms and in a way that will work best for Sycamore. Okay, so Annie just threw out a lot of data, hard numbers, clinical information. My job is to soften and to look at feelings and anxieties and concerns and questions, the softer side of what happens. And those are the barriers that people fear. So we are pretty blessed in this community. We have a wonderful neighborhood partner called Children's Hospital. And

023in that hospital, we have one of the world's best experts on teen and adolescent sleep science, Dr. Dean BB. He was gracious enough to give our team his time and he's already extended his time to our district and said he will partner with us like he partnered with CPS and many other schools if we would like to make this change. He is a pediatric neurossychologist and his passion project in life is teen sleep. So we would be remiss not to partner with this very critical resource and he says to us folks there are two lanes to this process and they go and they run alongside each other but it's like a highway. You've got the fast lane and that's the science that that both Annie and Isla have already presented. The science runs fast. Everybody's

024going to buy almost everybody to that science. The turn lane, the slow lane with the congestion and the construction and all the detours is going to be the community buyin because of their emotions. So he deferred us to another community expert in Ohio. Her name is Stacy Samra. She is the health policy director of Start School Later. She was a part of that legislation that stalled out during COVID. And she we also spoke with her and she said, "So here's what you do. You know that the science is ironclad. So you push it out and you push it out in every method, every format, every delivery, every community stakeholder that you can get a hold of that you can get to, you give them the science early, often and frequently. The second lane of the

025congestion and all of the potholes and all of those things that we all deal with, she said, "Do not shy away from it. Embrace it. know what those are going to be ahead of time and be willing to still hear them ending ways. She says if you do not listen to your community they will feel not listened to. So she says we have a really big job and the first phase of the project which in just a moment Amy Acriman will tell you about is the listening phase is the sharing phase. So we're going to be pushing out information and receiving information at the same time. And that's a hard task. It's the whole patting your stomach and rubbing your head. Okay. So, we're back to that moment where we've got two things going on

026at once. We can do that. We can do hard things here. She encourages us to embrace the statements and respect that the top two will be scheduling conflicts and transportation. She we all know it. So, go to the schools that have done it. She will be a liazison to us. There are plenty of answers and questions and answers that are already out there. Don't start from scratch, she said. Embrace that information. Push it out. You don't have to have all the answers at the beginning, but you do need to listen to the questions and be prepared to give those answers. Last but not least, she encourages that we have a very long vetting period of that exposure and that request of information from our community stakeholders. All right. So she says, "We do deserve to

027understand or they do deserve to understand that the change is necessary, but we need to give them time to acclimate to it." Okay, we get that. So our group began to discuss the how. How do we do it? Well, we could do this and then we got into the weeds on that. We can do this and we got into the weeds on that. And then we realize we don't want to present any of the weeds today because that doesn't behoove any of us because then we get stuck in the weeds. So we're going to leave all of that to the experts and you're going to want to say well how do we do it? We have a lot of ideas and we have presented that in our 45 slide deck to the board and the

028administration. But tonight we're just sh saying to you that we do believe the two areas that will leverage the best are looking at the master schedule and looking at transportation. Like I said the recommendations are in that document. Okay. So what are the data points? Why do we do this? Well, Isa mentioned more sleep equals a better student outcome. You should be asking the very very first question. If we change the start time, will students actually get more sleep? Those answers are out there. It's in the science. We go back to the science. And at the end of our presentation, there's about 30, I think, links to all of the science, and they all say the same thing. The answer is yes. For every one to two minute of a start time delay, students will

029actually get one to two more minutes of sleep per night. So, it's an apples to apples for the most part. It might be slightly fractionally less, but it's there. Okay. The next thing I want to mention is quickly um if we can go to the next slide please. We have tapped on the concept of universal design. It is a trend in education right now to go away from inclusion and and focus on an even greater way of making sure that every single student is considered when decisions are made. So what we did is we did some research and tried to see if the future of education in universal design where does healthy start times fit. Well, it is not mutually exclusive, but it does complement one another. executive functioning skills, which many of our students

030with special education needs need to get to to get to school. They need a little bit of extra time and a delayed start for our junior high and high school will allow for that. And it is something for all students that impacts all students. It is not exclusive to one demographic. So we are very excited about this partnership with the potential and future of any adoption of universal design components. This meets a lot of and checks off a lot of boxes. If you will look here at this slide, it talks about economically disadvantage gains. We're going to see a slight reduction in tardiness. We're going to see improvement in attendance. Those things in totality also bring down issues with discipline. And so then academic gains, it's a it's a little bit of a square dance,

031if you will. Okay. So one thing moves here, this thing moves here. You move left, you move right, you move move forward, you move back. These things happen with a slightly shifted start time. I want to close. I said, Dr. BB, does it have to be 8:30? Does it have to be 8:30? and he said, "No, but please, please get it to start with an eight." Thanks. Thank you. All right. So, this is a big undertaking and lots of change. It is culturally deeprooted that our high school starts at 720. That's just the way we've always done it. And so, you know, to get people thinking about an alternative, if you want to go to the next slide, um, we need to consider a number of different stakeholders, get feedback, run education, utilize a lot

032of the local and national resources to help people understand the why behind this, why would we even consider this? And what should we be thinking about as we think about all of the students and community um that we represent? So, first starting off with the administration and board of education. Ultimately, this decision, it lands with you, the logistics, um the financial pressures and constraints, you know, the you know, how do we build this to make it work for all of our students? Um, need to be considered. sports and extracurriculars. As we thought about this change, this is like an automatic, but what about, you know, but our students practice at this, but you know, the game start at this and how are we going to get people where they need to go? Um, Brian Whistle

033is um baseball coach and it was unable to be here because of celebration of their season tonight, but he's had lots and lots of conversations around this. It can be done. Again, it's a change. It's something to get our heads around. we need to think through what that looks like but it logistically can be done. Um the other piece and um again we have lots of slides to behind this but to think about too is what would happen if then okay so our students go later we have less hours after school oh I'll just practice early in the morning and we've gotten um some thoughts around how to mitigate that as well because you know doing that would just undermine the whole effort to try to get our students more sleep um especially our student

034athletes who probably require a lot of sleep. um community. We know this is going to have an impact on the community, the traffic patterns. Um we have students that work in our businesses around uh the community after school. So it might affect the time that they can get to work. Um you know, and what does that do? Um but we also know we have other community members in the city of Montgomery. They do a lot for mental health awareness. So we know that there are partners out there that again with knowledge and conversations we can start to get their heads around it and think about all the considerations here. Similarly, child care um shift in demand. If our students, our high school students aren't getting home at the same time they're getting home today, who

035would be there to take care of some of our elementary school students as they get off the bus, whether it's, you know, personal families or neighborhood families. Um and we know that there will uh be an impact there. We have reached out to local child care companies again just to kind of dabble and see what the reaction would be and know they would be great partners and resources to provide alternatives. Operations, you know, it was on the the previous slide about the buses. Again, it's sports and buses is a lot of where you know the the conversation goes. And yes, it's a challenge. It's a change. Um there are things that we need to consider and think about especially with our three tier busing system that we have today have to spend a lot of

036time there and take it into account but it can be done. Um also families you know really helping get their heads around it. It's a change to what happens today. Maybe you know the shift in what happens after school or what time dinner is or all of those pieces. Um you know it's it's doable. It's just, you know, getting your head around, you know, this is not how we've always done it. Um, teachers and staff, you know, in talking with teachers and getting some points of view there, you know, their number one priority in their role and why they went in to this field are the students. So I think getting their heads around that is really quickly like of course they can can get on board for that but there are other logistics as

037part of that too whether it be with their contract their work life balance you know how to balance if they were previously having meetings after school does that shift to the beginning of the day is their time during the midday um again we're not here to answer all those questions but those are things to think about as we implement this um and I purposely went in this order because the other stakeholder are students and I don't know that I need to spend much more time there. Um it's really compelling why you know more sleep is better to help them thrive. Okay. So the data is clear. Um it is better for the physical mental health of our students as well as academic performance to shift the time and um you know this doesn't even though

038the data is clear it's not like we can snap our fingers and make it happen overnight. um sounds great but there is a lot that goes into this and we need to build momentum and understanding of the why um because this is a community impacted decision. Our thought is and based on research of what other schools have done um that we are recommending a two to three imple implementation timeline and our ask tonight is that we start that now and we get your approval to really move forward to a high school start time that starts with an eight. Um and really hoping that we um can give you the information and really get your heads around what that looks like. Um why two to three years as we go to the next slide and um

039you know just for the sake of time not going to go into a ton of detail here but again it's two to three years because we do need to consider all of our stakeholders and then really get down to the logistics of what this would look like. The initiation phase, you know, starts kind of now in the next couple months really getting together the charter, who is on the planning committee, you know, some preliminary approval to um get going on this and bring in the proper resources to start um you know, educating the district and really planning out what needs to be done to put this into place, you know, with the stakeholder analysis beginning in the fall and and or Q4. um this is not a oneanddone thing you know kind of envisioning town

040halls and education um lots of opportunities for people to understand why we are doing this and then in the background starting next year um really getting our arms around the logistics and planning and you know there's a lot lot that will go into that um with the hopes of a recommendation towards middle uh of next year and an implementation in 2027 2028 8 school year. And with that, I'm going to turn it back to Isa to close us out. Okay. Yes. So, we've covered the science. We've covered the challenges and the opportunity, but it comes down to this. Evidence is clear, the timing is right, and Sycamore students such as me are counting on you. Who are we doing this for? It comes down to the students. That is what this is for. There's a

041lot of benefits. There's a lot of things, but this is for the students. Let's start planning now so that by 2027, we can proudly say that we have put Sycamore students first. Thank you for the for your time, your focus, and your commitment to what ma matters most, our students. This isn't easy, but it is essential. The opportunity is real, and the responsibility is ours. The urge to take the next step authorized the district to begin thoughtful collaborative planning with students at our center. Thank you. Thank you. That was a very thorough uh presentation and it was very helpful. And I think if I think what we should do is um if any board members would like to ask would you like to ask questions? Would you like to comment? Go through and kind of

042comments. First of all, thank you. Um I mean the data speaks for itself. I'm a data person. Can't discount all of the data that you said and there's a ton more data. We've looked this into the past. Um, you know, you talked about having the community embrace it, obviously very important, but also figuring out the how is is is going to be a challenge. Um, there's a there's it always comes down to um, you know, students first, but then figuring out the how, which includes a lot of different pieces. Um, and there's a financial component to it as well. Um, you know, we can't find drivers. what do you do about getting bus drivers if we're going to have more buses or etc etc or you're you're shifting start times. So I'm 100% supportive of

043starting this process. It's something the board has talked about in the past and we've been sidetracked with a lot of different things. I we we started to go down this road when COVID hit. Obviously educating figuring out how we're going to educate students during COVID was was important but it's time to it's time to start this again. So definitely appreciate everything you've done. I would be in support of starting the process and starting to figure out those nuts and bolts of the how. I was just going to say for the full presentation, I think you shared the slides with the whole board. It gives some of the process behind it if you guys wanted to look into that. It does give you a lot of those detail. I did look I wasn't sure if you

044saw that. Yeah, I did. It's great. It's great information, but it is us the wrong way. We have experts in transportation and experts in education that that need to be kind of the doers behind the scenes. Agreed. You know, and agreed we need to have a committee and all that, but uh you know, it's just there's a lot of lot of stuff that's going to go into making these decisions. It's going to take time like you said, but if we don't start now, it's just kicking the can down the road. And I don't know if it helps, but we do have team members that spoke to a lot of those stakeholders, including transportation, who is already starting to kind of get their heads around it. Um, I don't want to misrepresent, but but just so

045you know, those conversations, I would echo what you just said. I mean, we have wonderful, wonderful community experts. So, you know, there are options to look outside of the district. There are options to look in the district. You know, there's a lot of ways to skin this cat, but you're absolutely correct. We really were quite impressed with Mike in our transportation office and I think if given the task he would he would step up to it based on our conversation 100%. But I think the biggest part of what I heard you say twice now because I got to hear the full presentation plus this one is we got to start taking the steps and not just admire the problem but get into the the depths of the problem. And the first thing is getting people

046to buy into the research. That was step one. I mean, if I follow your steps correctly, you know, we need to get organized and get people convinced that the research is correct. It will make everything else beyond it easier once people buy into the research. So, you know, I think I can only speak for myself and the rest of our team. you know, we're willing to obviously take this on as long as the board is supportive of that direction because um I feel very confident that um and you heard me at the meeting, I would love to go faster because I think it's important for our students. I think it's too critical to leave to just keep passing it down the road. But I also understand um our our alumni, you went to school at

047720. So, it's been a longstanding spot and it's amazing when you bring it up with kids. They're like, I don't think we need to do I just was testing it before I did the ask us anything session with the kids that were on there and they were all like, no, we shouldn't do anything. We should leave it alone. And I'm thinking, oh, we got our work cut out for us right there just with kids. But they don't know any better. They don't know anything different though. It it is, but it's also I think they're just so used to being able to have that schedule that they plan around it versus I think we we got to talk about the research. We got to talk about the science more. So, um I'm excited about this project.

048ICS. You guys did a phenomenal job multiple times now and I look forward to continuing to partner with you because I know that you did the research, but Amy and I talk about this a lot where it's got to be the follow through to the research because I don't want your research to be for not. So, so we have some volunteers to be on the committee, right? We actually said I think we're all pretty committed to doing that in the capacity that we can and that you want us. Um, so yes, it was funny because today I got sent a virtual link to a meeting about transportation logistics for this very reason and I sent it to I think both a Annie and Amy to say, "Hey, let's jump on this. I think it's next

049Thursday already." So I think that I would I would just like to for your benefit because you've done so much work, I would like to kind of pull the the board right here. So, do Dr. Seager, how do you feel about this moving forward? Not to put you on the spot. Not just to put me on the spot, I think it's a good idea to move forward. I I would be interested in Miss Lawson's perspective since she's already done this at another school district to team up with you because she's Do you have any questions for them that I figured she'd be on the list, but I just I wanted to know if you had any questions that could help enlighten the board a little bit. Um, I don't have questions. I am very enthusiastic

050about this topic. Um I led this work in another community seven years ago. One of those communities was listed in your bar graph and uh I'm just really excited that this is a conversation and I have seen these obstacles be overcome um and the process is important so that we bring our community with us. I just wanted to make sure if she had any questions. I think it's a good idea to move you know us forward. I wish that we had all five board members here to discuss though. That's where I am right now. I think it's extremely important for us to move forward with this study. Um and not just to um look at words and and say that we did the study but to really invest our time and ourselves in understanding the

051research, understanding the process which is extremely important because when you mess up this the process then you you really excited about us starting if if uh if the board agrees to. Yeah. I was just gonna throw in also Mrs. Logan, this might be some modeling for you to speak a little bit with things for us as well. So, thank you in advance for that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it it is one of those things I one of the things I like and we've we've talked a lot about this about the implementation the phase that you go through making sure that even if it's the right answer that if you don't take the right process and the right time and do the steps that you're gonna you're going to fall on your face. And so I

052am encouraged looking at that timeline. Um, and I think that fits in, Dr. Stiger, to your point, I think it fits in with a lot of the other things that we're looking at as well. I mean, you know, we've talked about what our next um ask of the community from a levy standpoint from a capital improvement projects. Um, you know, and if if there's more funding needed because of healthier start times, you know, that may be something the community is interested in. So I think it does tie in closely, but I think we need that component and that piece of it before we start to make our decisions. So yeah, the clock is ticking about a year. I think that's I would like that's the powerful part of what they're suggesting though, which is it

053doesn't commit the board to anything other than we just need to move down the road to see because we're going to get it. We can get into the weeds of all the things because I, you know, there are simple ways that you could look at it and then there are more difficult and detailed ways to look at it that may or may not cost any more money and might cost less. So we don't know until we get into the work to bring you back anything. So I think all we're looking for is I think more of a headnot of support to start down the path. I would like to chime in as well. I um I am very supportive of healthy start times. So I you don't have to sell me on the science. Like

054I that part I I I think we've had enough presentations and I I feel like I've been reading as much as possible on this topic. It is it is that to me I mean I'm not the community though but you know to me it's clear um I am I agree with really with what everyone has said it's such a process and I know just from sitting here we've had public people come in for public participation when we change the date of the when a kindergartener is going to start school by a week or a month and it's intense. It is intense because it changes the planning and schedule for that child. And I'm telling you, we all know this that the board will get a lot of pressure related to this. And that's okay because

055we know that this the science is there. However, I do have some I have some strong things that I want to make sure very clearly that the administration keeps in mind. I am never going to be in favor of taking transportation away from our students for this. I think being in school is healthier than not being in school. We have a significant number of children who are living in poverty who do not have access to transportation. We do in the high school and in the junior high, right? So, I would I would be that person to say, okay, do we have to buy more buses? Like, what do we have to do to to make sure that happens? I want to have, you know, cake and eat it, too. I don't want to be like

056I know Lovelin school. I know some of these schools are private schools. They don't offer transportation anyhow. So, you can make a win out of that and just call it healthy start times, right? That's great. Um, but we don't want to do that. We want to actually get our kids to school. We want to have all our kids bus. I do not believe in putting threeyear-olds who have disabilities on buses with older kids that are 10 years old. I do not believe that. I've said that many times in this board meetings in the years past. Um, children who have disabilities need to be sitting in harnesses. They have a very specific need to get on and off buses. I I saw that in the documents, the longer ones, but if we can just get to

057like these are the requirements like we're going to have buses for everybody. We're not going to change our service. You know what I mean? It costs money. It does, but let's let's like protect that sycamore. We have to protect that. It's a great great thing. And that could also, by the way, I know you said it helps kids to um be less tardy or like be on time. I do think that's probably true, but there could be some I don't know what all the data is on that because there could be kids that don't show up because I see kids walking to school sometimes when they're late. I see kids riding, kids who don't have transportation. I see it a lot where where I live. So, I just don't want to take any services away,

058but I want to have healthy start time. So, like how do we do that, right? I would be all for that if the administration can bring that to us. That's my those are my caveats. I like that. I support that too. Thank you. Great articulation. Yeah, but I mean we are I believe Sycamore is ready and I think it's going to take two or three years and but you're right. We have to talk a lot to the community. We have a lot a lot of talking to do. That two to threeear timeline came directly from start schools later. Yeah. Who has worked with a number of school districts that have gone through this process. Yeah. And they really cautioned us to emphasize the importance of that first year almost as like a PR campaign, the

059first half of the year more so than anything else because if you go too quickly, you get push back. People are making assumptions instead of an educated um decision about how they feel and that's when you run into trouble. Yeah, absolutely. And I I do want to just also I this always comes to mind when we have this conversation. I do know that at the high school there are a lot of kids that start at 8. They like they're allowed to start a bell later I guess. So I I would be curious to know like if there's any information most senior like is it just seniors mostly? Is it like upper classmen? Open to most grade I think it's sophomore, junior and senior but it just depends on your schedule. Yeah because students that have

060that space and are doing APs and harder classes they can maybe take I'm just curious if there's anything to learn from that. I mean, that may be a perfect example, you know, like these are the kids that are starting later. I mean, I obviously you can't there's not really much you can't find out if they're getting better grades or, you know, or having less mental health issues. Compare. No, we're not doing that. Dr. Steer will be upset. My point my point is we do have some kids um we do clearly have some kids at the high school that are um starting a little bit later. And if there is any other creative ways to help people start later that might just in the meantime, right, help kids more kids have healthy start times, right? So

061that being said, the board seemingly all agreeing that we should move forward. Um what are the next steps? I don't want to just say yes, let's move forward. Yeah. What would be the I think you know that would be us to our our team to start moving some of that work forward. So they're volunteers minus Mrs. Anderson of course, but we'll take their research and then we'll start having some internal dialogue about what are those next steps. We had already kind of planned that this next year will be a heavy year of community engagement. This will be a great topic to have community conversations about. Um, and and again, it's not going to be we're not going to be going out to the community into the weeds of the logistics of how and how do

062we accommodate everybody's schedule because if you look up there on the screen, Isa did a great job of sharing. We can get bogged down in all the other things over there, but we got to keep the students at the focus of what we do. So, yes, I appreciate all those things over there, but care the most about what's on the left of that screen. So um that'll be our challenge in our work is to I think their re recommendation and I think implementation science would say start with the why share the why make sure that people understand the research and the science behind it before we get too far out in front. So um I remember how slow the MTSS implementation has been and um watching Mrs. Tomkins and Mrs. Spencer guide us through that

063work slowly. This is very similar. Is it take the time to implement and go through all the steps and be intentional about what are the and what are the pieces of feedback we get back from our community. So, it's a it's going to be a two-way dialogue, not just a oneway%. And you'll be able to like once you kind of have an idea of the outline of what you're planning on doing, you'll bring that to the board and share that with us so we can see what it what it is. And I would say the first step would be us by the end of summer because if you looked at their schedule kind of by the end of summer coming back to say here's what we plan to go out and talk with the community

064about. I would I would think the board would want to be involved in some of those discussions in some way shape or form. So are you I guess maybe I'm misunderstanding a little bit. Are you having sack do this work or your administrators doing the work? Yeah, the administration would do the work. Okay. But we're willing to contribute as community members to um help do some of the take some of the load on as needed. Great. Not all of us, not all the time, but you know, when we can. Outstanding presentation. Thank you for listening. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. The next item on the agenda is the superintendent's agenda. And the first item is to discuss question of policy read. Sure. We don't have to pass anything on this one or vote. We just

065need to talk about it, right? Sure. And I have a couple updates too just to give you from our past policy meeting if that's okay to share. Yeah. Um first of all, we had our last policy committee. Um we met on May 12th. Um we had some great discussion. We had a few policies that we had that were kind of um policies that we brought forward from the administrative team just to talk through and then we had a few that were just lingering from a legal process that we needed to keep moving. Um we also um did have a conversation in regards to RRTI which was the religious release time and I'll talk about that now. Um that policy was obviously brought forward. We have had community members speak at the board meetings in regards

066to maybe tightening up the language a little bit and we had a great conversation, sent that back to legal. Um got some feedback from legal and then at 3:45 today uh was told to put the brakes on that from legal because there's now some um pending litigation um in the state against um Niola um in regards to how policies are written. And I say Niola because it's just the main one. Um but OSBA is very similar. Um what that comes really down to is the the pending litigation I believe is all around um that the language is too restrictive for the organizations things like background checks um what we're considering core subject areas. So, um, our policy that we approved, we're going to keep in place and we are not bringing our RTI back to

067the board for a first read until legal gives us some clarity around what we could bring back. So, just wanted to give you the highlight reel that happened at 3:45 today on that one. Um, we also have um, today OSBA released their May quarterly updates which includes five policies that we're going to have to bring forward. Um, our plan is to take those, there's no time crunch, we'll take those to policy committee meetings, um, as we head into the summer, um, which we'll need to likely readress the policy meeting time. So, we just need to figure out when we're going to do those through the summer to meet everybody's schedule. 4:15 probably doesn't work on a Monday in June and July. So, um, my hope is that once the board meeting schedule is set that

068maybe we just dovetail the policy meetings right after the board meeting in the morning. Um but we can have further discussion about that. Um and then lastly, we talked about um bringing Neiola in to do a presentation to the board. That was kind of lingering from a few meetings ago. Um and the policy committee had talked about June 4th. I haven't reached out to uh Niola yet to do that because I was waiting for the firm times of the board meetings. And so once that's set, we can have a conversation with you all if that's something that you would want on the agenda if we wanted to push that back to the second meeting in June. So, those are just highlights, no really discussion at this point, but I wanted to kind of let you

069know what was going on. Um, but there are four policies that are up here for first reads. Um, the first one that I'm going to talk about is policy GBH or also JM, student staff relations. This was, um, basically a deletion in one of the key points. Um, and so it reads, "Staff member shall not attempt to diagnose or treat a student's personal problem related to sexual behavior, substance abuse, mental or physical health, and or family relationships, but instead should refer the student to the appropriate individual or agency for assistance. The new policy strikes that last piece, but instead should refer the student to appropriate individual or agency for assistance." So, that is falling more in line with the parent bill of rights and all the um policies that we've been dealing with. um our

070staff is strictly um not to refer um any any student and I will tell you that this is work that our district is doing um training our counselors and our staff and things like that. So there's ongoing work around that. Um the second policy is IGBLA. It's peroding parental involvement. That's that par parental bill of rights. Um again, this is a legal um mandate and just just um so you know some of some of the the highlights of this one are um provides it's the parental right to opt out of sexually content instruction. No sexually um content no sexuality content may be taught in grades K to three. Parental notification of changes in mental physical health services and parental consent is required for non-emergency health issues. So again, just really um highlighting the fact that

071um parents should be engaged upfront with all of those conversations. Um and then um uh staff staff are prohibited from discouraging parent involvement and encouraging students to withhold information from parents. We feel like we're in a really good spot here in Sycamore with this, but there are some things that we still need to train and kind of just hit on with the staff as we head into the new the new year. Um policy IKF was graduation requirements. This was a lingering policy that we just needed to update with the sycamore expectations. So that was done and that's on here for you. And again, this is a legal um a legal requirement. And then the last one is policy JGE, student expulsion. Um the key point here is that um the part that was added was

072expulsion for quote imminent and severe danger um up to 180 days extendable by 90-day increments and it requires a mental health assessment behavioral conditions for reinstatement. So basically what they wanted to do is add language in regards to um that kind of imminent and severe danger what we might see um from a weapon on campus or something like that. Um and again this was a legal requirement for us to update and that's it questions. Just a final I know you've said this so many times but I feel like I sure just to say it one more time. These are all we have we have to these Yep. don't get a choice. That's correct. Legal requirements and any of the policies that we want to um we would say is customized. We're working really heavily with

073our legal counsel on those. Um it's uh some of these policies feel like they're a boomerang once you get them adopted. they send tend to keep coming back up. Um I just heard today that there was um um pending legislation or um in the parent bill or not the parent bill, the RRTI, the religious release that there's now actually language that they're trying to put into the budget bill around this as well. So you just um you do what you do. You approve it and then you wait for something to come and then we'll just keep bringing it back to policy committee as as necessary. And that's why I ask. I say that because I just want people who are watching to understand that we, you know, all school districts have to follow the the

074laws that are passed by our Ohio legislature. And yep, that's what our policy committee is looking at those and we are when we have a chance to make a change or make an amendment or you know sycamorize it so to speak we do do that and but either way we have we have this process and we are following the laws that we have and of course we all have the ability to advocate on our own and call your legislators but for us we do that um through our own advocacy as a district as well and just a reminder also that Dr. James and I are both on that committee and there are a lot of administrators that come into those meetings and the treasurer is there also and assistant superintendents are there. So it's a

075lot of people um yeah join in and try to have conversations input from all angles. So it's not just Mr. Level making a decision. No it is not. No it is not. It's a lot of Yeah. Well thank you for that information. Absolutely. We do have um public comment. Sure. I'm in this one. Okay. Yep. You all know already by now that I read all the policies. So, um good evening. My name is Amy Shaman on Acerwood Drive. I'm commenting on the last one discussed, the IGBLA promoting parental involvement. Um, the policy draft, as mentioned, articulates that parents not only have to be allowed to to pull their kids from certain discussions, but that they must be notified for quote counseling or monitoring unquote between a child and any staff, teachers, counselors if related to

076their quote well-being unquote. So, what is considered counseling or monitoring? Does monitoring mean observing a student's behavior that may indicate the student is not safe at home? What about statements by the student? Does a student asking for help mean a call to a parent when providing that help? How are we protecting students who may be unsafe at home due to who they are or due to behavior of others in their home? How does this fit with many, if not all, staff and teachers in the district being mandated reporters obligated to report suspected child abuse? for students to get help when they're not safe at home if that requires them to that requires them to trust the adults around them. Of course, that trust disappears if the parent is told that the child disclosed the abuse

077that they themselves are inflicting. Sorry, I lost my place. Um, how many kids in our schools are abused? Statistically, 25% of girls and many boys are abused. Does this sound exaggerated? I wish I wish it was. Just last year in 2024, the Center for Disease Control reported that one in four quote one in four girls and one in 13 boys are estimated to experience child sexual abuse unquote. One quarter of our female students. When you put notifying parents ahead of a child's safety, which is how the policy reads at the moment, um you are, and I know that's not what your intent is. I get that you have words you have to use. Um you are unintentionally intentionally endangering those children. We may wonder if this one in four and one in 13 stat is

078only true for certain communities. No, it is not. For many decades, every study has shown that the rates of child abuse are the same regardless of any label we could apply. Economic status, social, religious, racial, residency, neighborhood, all of them have the same statistics. What impact does child abuse have on children? The CDC states many things, including quote, "Abuse and neglect may result in toxic stress, which can change brain development and increase the risk for problems like post post-traumatic stress disorder and learning, attention, and memory difficulties." Schools are supposed to be safe places for our students. In many cases, they are one of the only remaining places for help. We know that if a student is hungry, ill, or doesn't feel safe, there are consequences for their focus and learning. If a student gets the

079message from the district teachers, staff, and parents that asking for help will be revealed to their parents, then they won't be able to ask for help. This policy suggests that notifying parents is more important than kids being safe. Again, I get where your words come from. We have students who are abused by parents, relatives, siblings, and others who have access to them. We have students who not who are not safe. I'm almost done. Being themselves that is real. Please find a way for students to be able to seek help at school. Don't remove the help. If you find a way to allow for reporting abuse without notification to the abuser, you likely will save kids lives. If not, the kids pay the price, and that price is devastating. Please find a way to help protect

080our kids and follow the law. Thank you. Thank you. Right. We don't normally talk about um we are in the middle of a policy discussion, so we can keep sure. Okay. So is there how do we address that? How would we I mean if there was I mean that would be an opposing this would be an but would there be an opposing is there like an opposing I mean this doesn't say that we couldn't that we couldn't I think it's a question for our lawyer. Yeah. So maybe we is this something you can ask our legal we hear everything you're saying but I'm not a lawyer to know what Yeah. Is there like something you could just ask? We have you have um you know we we have from the very beginning shared similar concerns

081about the restrictiveness of the laws. Um we also recognize that um outside of the statistics our parents are our number one advocates for our students. And so we understand the um intent behind the bill from the standpoint of giving rights to parents. At the same rate, we also know that um our school community and dynamics is very different. Every family is different and so our job is to protect our students and we have been working with legal to understand specifically what does the language say but more importantly what does the language not say and um what does it not say and then how do we um support and protect our students under under the law. Got it. So great. It has been Yes. Yep. Okay. And training um really important. Yes. Yep. Yep. I understand

082what you're saying. So, thank you. Anybody any other questions that all right? Can I please get a motion and a second for the resolution OSA? Moved. Second. So, oh, so I was just going to give you a quick update. I was just gonna No, I missed. No, it's okay. I forget. Thank you, Mr. B. It was Mr. Bal that motion for it and Dr. Ste. So, you have that. Mrs. Logan, I for you. And I think I actually interrupt you at the last meeting, too. So, I need No, it's okay. It doesn't It's fine. Um, I just wanted to give an update on this. You did approve this resolution. So, if it's looking very familiar to you, um, we got a board policy that was basically wanting us to update this again. But what happened

083was, if you remember, um, we were required by law to pass a resolution basically either adopting sycamore policies or model policies through the state, which we follow all special education model policies. The policies then changed right after we got our resolution approved. So, it's back again. Like I said, a boomerang. It's back again for another approval. And so, that's why the resolution's on here. Okay. You're on the You're on C, right? Am I on the wrong one? Yes. Well, be Oh, the resolution. Yeah, you were talking about the res. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, then you covered that for But there you go. It's C. So, so there's a resolution for the OSBA. You have anything you want to say about? Yes. So, I will give you Well, there I'll just go out the B. So,

084this one's pretty simple, too. Um, so basically, there are a lot of policies out there that right now that um just need changes to the language like changing state board of education to ODU and things like that. Basically, what OSBA has done here is created one document that outlines all of these changes that if we approve this, they will go behind the scenes and clean all that up for us. So, we don't have to bring every single policy back to you for first read, second read, and approval. Okay. It's all just clerical. Yep. Yep. So, it's in the attachment. Yep. On the chart there. So, if we approve this now, then you then we don't have to go through each one of those. We don't. So, we send this and then they do the work

085for us, which is nice. It would come back to us if there's a different change to it other than language. Correct. Just remember that. Substantial language change. Right. All right. Anything to help us be a little bit more efficient. We will take that. I think Mr. will take it too. I love I love it. Yes. All right. Mrs. Logan, please call the role. Mr. Ballot. I. Dr. Seager. Hi. Dr. James. Hi. Mrs. Bitter. I. The next item, uh, can I please get a motion and a second for the resolution special education model policies and procedures? So moved. Second. Thank you, Dr. James, for your motion. Thank you, Dr. Steer, for your second. And this is the one that you just And we have approved it, but there's not a change to it. And would you

086like to talk about it? So you did approve a resolution previously. Um there was some feedback, a lot of feedback across the state to um the Ohio Department of Education and Workforce regarding those uh policies and procedures which um prompted um OSBA to um support a um round table, special education roundt for feedback on that to address some of the concerning language um that was included in the model policies and procedures. And so they revised the document based on that round table, those roundt sessions and the feedback. And so now we're bringing it to you again um to um approve the resolution with the revised document. They're calling it um the model policies and procedures 1.0 even though it's the second version. So C 1.0 it's the current version. Just wanted to give you that

087update. also leads me to believe there will be others potentially. Um, so the resolution has version 1.02. Yes, that's correct. So that is correct. Correct. Okay. Okay. Okay. Didn't have a one. It didn't have anything. Gotcha. Okay. I just want to make sure that was accurate. Okay. Thank you. Question. Um, I I mean I know I'm not trying to you what were the like what were the what what were the general concerns with it? I'm just there was there were a couple of um items in the model policies and procedures that were not they were more than what the federal requirements were um under IDEIDA. um things related to uh one example is extended school year um that there was an additional um consideration that that indicated it was a requirement but it's not under

088ID and there were there were really four major items that kind of fell under that umbrella. Okay. All right. Thank you very much. Okay. Can Mrs. Logan please call the role? Dr. James. Hi. Dr. Steager. Hi. Mr. Balance. I Mrs. Bidder I please get a motion a second for 2526 leadership development contract with people people fluence LLC moved second. Thank you Mr. Balant for your motion and thank you Dr. for your second was Dr. James or sorry Dr. James for a second. Excuse me. Okay. Is this the Would you like to talk about this? This is just a continuation of uh administrative development, making sure that all of our administrators have coaching. Um so this is a component of it that we um have been working on this year and continuing into next year. Is

089that I mean I'm gonna ask that that is that a normal 36,000 is that pretty standard for that type of training? It can be. I mean when we were looking at coaching models for the whole team um there were six figurees that gave us proposals. So So this is within the normal range of how I would say it's a pretty actually if you see it broken down by per person it's pretty pretty standard. Okay. Anybody have any questions? All right. Uh, Mrs. Logan, please call the role. Mr. Balant, I. Dr. James, I. Dr. Stager, I. Mrs. Bidder, I. Can I please get an um a motion and a second for the approval of the 2025 graduates? Move. Second. Thank you, Mr. Balant, for your motion. Thank you, Dr. James, for your second. And Mrs. Logan,

090please call the role. Mr. Balant, hi. Dr. James, hi. Dr. Steer, hi. Mrs. Spitter, I. That's always a really good one because there's a lot of pages here of all the graduates. See, it's wonderful. It's the best part this time of year. Can I please get a motion in a second for grades PK through six staff Chromebook order? So moved. Second. Thank you, Dr. Steer, for your motion. Thank you, Mr. Balot, for your second. Yeah, I have a question, Mr. Long. Um, you know, just we've talked about um our capital improvement budget remaining fixed and a portion of that is always technology. Um, how does this compare to previous years? Are we seeing an increase to where we really need to talk, you know, at future financial retreats to make sure we're increasing, you know,

091our budget with the cost of things. So these devices, so we did last year we did grades seven through 12 staff devices more advice. We have more staff through six, but just look at the actual device cost seen about $30 increase for advice. So it's not a ton from a staff standpoint because we do only buy satisfices every five years. Bigger issue is on the student cases. We already did that order. Um because we ordered that in February versus ordering out that take us about $8,000. Um, so we do have a little bit of an increase building, but not that much every so there is some cost we're concerned on books specifically. We're just not what the costs are. But specifically for our staff devices, we did see about $30 increase. We're looking at about

09210 $15,000 last year. So roughly a five or six percent increase. So I mean it is significant. Yes. Over time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And again we don't know what that's going to do. Um history says that technology should be a little bit cheaper but we're not seeing that. We're seeing the prices continue to go up and with the additional tariffs here recently too. I don't have any to say that these costs are going to go down and the cost of all technology is going to continue to increase with cyber security threats and and everything like that. Yeah. What we're seeing with that now is they're building a lot of cyber defense into specific uh hardware and so that's combining that with artificial intelligence into the hardware that's making possible as well. So I say all

093this just to say more evidence that we really need to have a conversation on capital. Absolutely. Yes. Good morning. Thank you. Right. Mrs. Logan, please call the role. Dr. Steager. I. Mr. Balant. Hi. Dr. James. Hi, Mrs. Fitter. I. Can I please get a motion and a second for out of town field trip approval? So moved. Second. Thank you, Dr. Seager, for your motion. Thank you, Mr. Balant, for your second. Mrs. Logan, please call the role. Dr. Stager, Ir. Dr. Jane, hi. Mrs. Fitter, I please get a motion and a second for transportation impractical. Second. Thank you, Mr. Balance for your motion. Thank you, Dr. Stager for your second. Mrs. Logan, please call the role. Dr. Balant, hi. Dr. Stagger, I. Dr. James, I bidder. I can I please get a motion, a second for

094SEAOU intermittent use of sick leave bank days. So moved. Second. Thank you, Dr. Steager, for your motion. Thank you, Mr. Balant, for your second. Say anything. Yeah, I mean, uh, the contract, we just actually had one of these approved for Oopsie not long ago. The contractual agreements for both Oopsie and our, um, SEA, um, sick, the sick bank days can only be used if they're consecutive in nature. So, it'd be for a catastrophic illness. We've had two situations this year based on the individual that um it needed to be more intermittent leave. Um which obviously I want to go into the details of any of that but all in all it was a conversation with both leaderships to say if this is something that they desire we would need to have anou around it because

095the sick bank really is their bank of days. I mean it impacts the district obviously um but this was driven by them and so it's just interesting enough we had one with Oopsie and one with SEA this year. All right. Thank you. Mrs. Logan, please call the role. Dr. Steer, hi. Mr. Balant, hi. Dr. James, hi. Mrs. Bidder, I Mr. Lewis. Um, other on superintendent agenda, the uh 2025 best communities for music education once again. So, congratulations to our music department and all of our talented musicians. Um, and a big thank you to our community for supporting music music education. Any idea how many years on the road that is? I do not put you on the spot. It's been a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. Thanks. Um, prom and after prom. Uh, big thank

096you to Kate Cshock, Don Stone, Boss, uh, the numerous staff volunteers that chaperoned. Um, and then also our afterprom team, Kim Rose Bond, and the, uh, number of PTO volunteers. Both events were great. Kids were well behaved. They looked fantastic. Um just a great night uh to celebrate the end of the school year. Graduation is Sunday at 10:00 a.m. at the Centas Center. So, look forward to uh all those approved graduates getting across the stage and enjoying a day at the Centas Center. We just did uh it was probably the most unusual groundbreaking we've ever had because uh it was a downpour of rain. Uh, but we did break ground on the Sadler family baseball and softball complex. Um, and the new Dan Hanky baseball field. Um, just a huge thank you to all of

097our donors that made that um, complex possible. A big thank you to the Sadler family. Um, I know we've recognized them in the past, but did a phenomenal job of just making that project a reality. We had some really cool teacher recognitions. Tony Shaver uh was named and Tony Shaver is a math teacher at Montgomery um in third grade. Yeah, third grade teacher at Montgomery. He was recognized with the George B. Chapman Junior Math Teacher Awards of Excellence. Um he was one of a handful of teachers selected for that award. So congratulations to Tony. Um and then we had a group of teachers that were selected for the George B. Milbourne Team Teachers Award of Excellence. So Tim Arnold, Greg Yulan, Megan Churcher, uh Sophia Feice, Jeremy Pletz, Emily Katzer, Mark Foglesson, Steven Langden, Kelsey

098Randall, Naen Burpie, and Hank Ray. Um that's the entire Sin Lab team. Um so congratulations to them and they were all recognized by the Martha Holden Jennings Foundation. So, um, each of those, I think the group and also Tony Shaver will get $1,000, um, that gets donated to the district and I think they get to use it on their classroom. So, uh, thank you, a big thank you, uh, to the people that nominated them and making that happen for them, but, uh, kudos to them for the work that they do. U,, and then the last thing is just some information. We never really got a clear answer from the board on summer board meetings. um of how you and the next one is June 4th. So, we just need some direction on how you would

099like to proceed with summer board meetings. Um the recommendation I think that I remember ending was an 8 a.m. start. Um and if that's the case, we'll go ahead and make those changes for the next I think the next three board meetings. There's two in June and one in July. I would recommend that we return to our normal schedule in August. I am perfectly fine with that. I'm fine with that, too. I'm fine with it, too. And I I think that um I feel like Victor Harris said during that time that he I believe he said I remember him saying he could do that as well. Steager, my schedule's just a little wonky over the summer. I will put that out there. So, um I will do my best to make it to the meetings.

100Got some personal stuff going on that summer. That's would be the district office. It would all be at district. Okay. Would you so is it sounds like it sounds like the the vast majority of us can do that. So will you just do that? Will you please ask um Miss Johnson to send us a change our invites so that we switch it and with district office written on there please? Thank you. All right. Okay. Is that um All right. Can I please get a motion and a second for the personnel consent agenda? I'll move. Second. Thank you, Doc. Thank you, Dr. Stager, for your motion. And thank you, Dr. James, for your second. Mrs. Logan, please call the role. Dr. Stager, I. Dr. James, I. Mr. Balance, hi. Mrs. Consider I can I well I

101guess I first start with can I please get an approval of the May 2025 five-year forecast. So moved second. Thank you Mr. Balance for your motion and thank you Dr. Ster for your second and now we will discuss I have just a few slides because we um we talked about the five-year forecast at the last board meeting. So, none of the numbers have changed, but what you have um and it's on board docs is you have the detailed notes. There's a lot of notes. It's a lot of details. There's a lot of numbers. Um and so, you know, we talk through graphs. We we talk through summaries, but tonight I just kind of wanted to talk about how how far have we come, what steps have we taken, and what are we now still looking

102at. So, our action steps at our last board meeting, we reviewed the changes from the November assumptions. Um, and we discussed any changes that we needed to make for uh the assumptions. So, tonight you need to approve the five-year forecast and then I have to file it by the end of this month to keep us legal. Um, I know we we talk a lot about, you know, how the state budget impacts us. And so, if we look at that timeline, there's a little star, a little yellow star there that says this is where we're at in this process. It's now being heard. Um, at the Senate, we have the governor's version, the House version. It's it's with the Senate. Um, and I actually um just got a request to participate in testimony next Wednesday um

103before the Senate Finance Committee. Um the education finance or the education committee heard testimony. Now it's at the finance committee and that's where it will be voted out of in that committee. So going up to testify on behalf of Sigmore um next Wednesday. Um just just to remind us they have until the end of June. We really will not know what the final results are until the end of June. But what does it look like right now? The governor's version kept in the phase in of the fair school funding plan which has been helpful to Sycamore but it did not include any updates on the actual costs. So it was still looking at what were our costs in 2022 which is really outdated. Uh the house version it threw out um the fair school funding

104plan model and introduced bridge funding. Um, and the other big piece is it limits our cash balance to 30% of our total expenditures. And it forces the county budget commission to give back money to our taxpayers um through um tax reform. Um tax reform and property tax relief is being it's part of the conversation along with state funding. Um, and there are over 14 proposed laws right now to change that to try to provide some property tax relief. But my argument and all of our arguments is it's not property tax relief if you force a reduction. And then then the next slide. What? Okay. So, we already know this. We've been talking about this. uh the end of this forecasted period, we run out of cash. We which cannot happen. And so we've been talking

105about November of 2026 is what we're looking at to go to our community and say, um, we need help. We need your assistance. We've we've gone for a decade and it's now time and we're we're coming back to you to say there is a need and we're develop exactly what that need's going to look like but that's what this graph looks like. So next slide and I know these numbers are really small but I'm going to talk through it. Um, and it's it's part it's on board docs, but the first chart is it's a snapshot of what our five-year forecast looks like right now. Um, and what our cash balances of our total expenditures are. Um, and I've got in here future levy modeling. We've been talking about it. Our last ask was 6.5 mills.

106So, that's modeled in here. And what would that look like for this district if that were to pass and and all of these things remain constant? Um it would put us in a pretty good position. Now this isn't looking further out, but it's at least looking at this 5-year forecast. Let's move down to the second half of this. the impact of this 30% maximum cash balance which is in the House version. Um what that would force our county budget commission to do because by their rules, we would have $10.1 million more than what we should have at the end of this fiscal year, the end of this June. So then what they would do is they would reduce taxes um in February and August of next calendar year. So they'd take that money away from

107our um they would take that money away from us, not collect it from our community members. But then what would it take? What kind of millillage would it take if we went in November of 26 and tried to get back up to just that 30% 10.5 mills. Ouch. How's that property tax relief? So, this this is will be part of my testimony next Wednesday, it's a realistic um point. We've been talking about this. This is not new. And so while we've been talking about 6.5 mills because that seems realistic, that's something our community um and now through their changes we could be looking at over double digits. That's that's not in the best interest of communities. So um just a point of information. I was trying to kind of model it to see what this

108would look like. Oh, I think that's a great modeling. So thank you. Yeah. Do you feel like I mean because you said if I'm reading it right that first year the 10.1 million doesn't that seem like it would encourage districts to go on a spending spree to get it down below that like do you know what I mean? Like it doesn't seem like it's any relief because people are going to spend it. Well, if they think it's a reality and there are districts have obligations. As an example, our teachers have already earned all of their wages. The money that we pay to our our teachers, everyone who finishes very soon teaching, we pay them in July and August based on their wages they've already earned. that's in the next fiscal year. Those funds are obligated,

109but it's not showing that on here that it's a very shortsighted look at this. I always try to remain hopeful and I believe I still believe to my core that there are reasonable people on um these committees that are listening to us. We have a great one. Senator Blessing is listening to us. he agrees that this is not the way to solve problems. Um, and I believe there are others who are listening. Um, do I think it'll completely go out? I don't know. But the 30% might be increased. So, we're going to remain hopeful. We're going to remain hopeful and we're going to keep advocating. So, has there been any discussion about the fact that we rely on property taxes? So if they're going to do this, they understand that it's going to impact school

110districts. What solutions are they suggesting? Um that if this were to go through, right? um that we we need to we're we're collecting too much cash is basically what the belief is there and that um our community needs relief because we're not spending the money. Um and so to Mr. Lewis's point, we've t we've talked about all these PI needs. I mean, we could transfer that $10 million tomorrow because there are needs, but we need it for operations, too, because we don't have a PI levy to help with with that. And so, it's really taken away that local control and your ability to plan in the long term. People, some people are saving up money for projects that are going to be two or three years out. There's levy cycles. There's whole a whole host

111of things that are just really not being considered in the conversation, but again, I remain hopeful that they're listening and they're hearing us because there's a lot of people saying similar things that we are saying. The the other thing I'll say too, um there is a constitution. Have you heard about the constitutional amendment that's being proposed? They're trying to get it on the ballot that says that um that there would be no longer property taxes to fund schools. It would all be the states issue. So, there's just so much going on right now. It's a very interesting time to be um to be part of this. So related to the property taxes, it sounds like by doing this they're they're forcing districts like ours to have levies every other year like some other districts have

112to do which is very challenging. I mean that's kept this having a cash reserve has been able to keep us right now for an eight-year run where we haven't had to have a levy necessarily. But that would that would change things for us. We would be doing it just like every other district that has to constantly run leveies. when we've been saying, "Oh, well, they're probably going to be higher and the more frequent." It right there's the proof. And then what's going to happen then to the ones that I mean, I guess it doesn't change anything for the ones that are already doing that because they're already doing it. I mean, would it also disadvantage them? I would think. Well, maybe not because if they don't have a cash reserve. Yeah. It just puts us

113all in the same basically in the same situation, which is kind of districts are sort of schools pitted against taxpayer in a way. Like it's not a good No thing. Yeah, that's all I have. Thank you. All right. So, anyone watching this, please call your leg, please call your senators. It's the Senate now. Okay. Can you please um Mrs. Logan, please call the role. Mr. Balant, I. Dr. Steager, I. Dr. James, I Mrs. Bidder, I can I please get a motion and a second for the approval of the month end financial report for April 2025? Thank you, Mr. Balot, for your motion. Thank you, Dr. Stiger, for your second. Not really any question. I'm going to ask my same question. You go right ahead. So, we're 83% 10 months, got two left, 8.9%. Uh, operating

114expenditure. Good number. Do you see that holding there? What's your forecast for the next two months? We did increase um where we believe those projections will be for May last right last meeting when we talked um and I still believe that the increases that we went up to are going to hold unfortunately. I do believe. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Mrs. Logan, can you please call the role? Mr. Balant, I. Dr. Stagger, hi. Dr. James, hi. Mrs. Bidder, I can I please get a motion and a second for the to accept donations. So moved. Second. This is Oh, um, thank you Dr. Seager for your motion. Thank you, Dr. James, for your second. And thank you for everyone who sent in. Thank you. Donations, especially the scholarship. Yes, absolutely. Mrs. Logan, please call the role.

115Dr. Seager, hi. Dr. James, hi. Miss Mr. Balance, hi. Mrs. Bidder, I. Next item on the agenda is other board business. But before we start that, I do want to say that um Mrs. Logan, I I want to thank you again for your detailed um you under the five-year forecast, there's a there's a document that's attached that you can read. the community can read this and it's really well written and it really explains every single detail of this five-year forecast and where the money, you know, some information on legislation, some information on risks, assessments, just very very detailed and helpful information. So, it's it's linked. It's on the um it's on the agenda. And I know that many people ask us about the five-year forecast. they ask us about this and this has been an

116excellent um just a very good educational tool for the board and for the community. So thank you for for providing that and anyone we will be asked questions and we will be providing this to people for sure. So thank you. So other board business. All right. So the first item is discussion of progress on resolution of actions. So on the 8th of April, we passed a resolution to approve certain actions to address community concerns. So let's discuss please do like me to start. Um okay, I'll start. So we um on that date we came up with we have six items in our resolution. And we'll skip down because a couple of them are for really for we have directed superintendent and we I did talk with our superintendent during our agenda planning. I'm not putting

117you on the spot, Mr. Lewis, because we'll get to that later, but there are a couple for that we directed the superintendent to do and then the rest most of the rest are for the board. So the first one is number three. Could we just I mean just would you like to go through them step by step or how do you one and two could we get an update on when we think that we will I checked in with Mr. Lampy, he's conducting the review of board policy AC. Um he said he would complete that review and get back to us. So I checked in with him uh after agenda planning. So, um, I can get an ETA on when he plans to deliver any recommendations or changes, but I think overall I think I

118feel fairly confident that we're in compliance with the law based on the work that we've done with OSBA and all our all of our policy work. Uh, kudos to Mr. Levelvel for leading that work. And then, um, I mean, can we put can the board put a date of, you know, whatever our last board meeting is in June to have that done? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know that. Is that a reasonable time? Yep. Are interrupt. Are you seeking that those changes to that policy would come for a first read then a two policy committee first read then second read? Because if so that's might be an aggressive timeline. No my my thing was just that he's completed the review. The legal has completed the just a review. Gotcha. It's not a change of

119policy. It's just a Okay. But if there were if there were changes it would be after that. We're already doing the reviews anyhow, but we requested that that that specific policy be reviewed. Perfect. So June 25th is second board meeting in June. Yep. So if we could put a date of June 25th uh that that dates uh that our lawyers review is completed. Yep. Can communicate that. And then thank you. Number two, uh we're working with legal councils from obviously our team and also um SEA's team to just identify proper training to because again you guys approved this after we had already given direction on the things that were needed to be completed. So we just need to come we've been in contact with Mrs. Grace. Um, and we're waiting to get kind of connection

120between the legal councils to give her direction on what we expect her to complete before returning. But that will be completed I think we can say by the first day of school next year. If there's any snags or snafuss between legal councils, we will update you. Thank you. Okay. Um, the next item is to have to determine if the public's allegation fell within the authority of the commission, the Ohio Ethics Commission. So, that was our first matter was to determine that. Um, we did get some legal count. We did get some information on that in general, which was in general that they didn't think it that it did because it was after the fact. So, we did check into that. But then, um, but I guess individually, how would you like to go about that,

121Mr. Balon? I mean, we could all individually do that. Even though we receive that information that because it's after the fact, it doesn't technically unless we go and request you would have to literally have to have to go and file a complaint against themselves basically is what we would have to do. It wouldn't be self-report. It would be file a complaint against yourself. So, and refresh my memory. We would be filing a complaint against ourselves for for that was the part that I don't really know. So, it was a little bit on the um was a little bit of challenging wording wise, but the first question we asked was to we were given guidance by council that said you're not you can't do that. like we can't we can't get an opinion letter because that

122was what I had suggested that we get ourselves an opinion letter to see if there was something we should do and they said you can't do that it's after the fact. So then the next one was we he still said he didn't think anything we've done anything that we shouldn't have done. However, if we so chose individually we could then file complaints against ourselves basically. I mean I'm looking at what he said. I don't see that second part that he said we didn't do anything wrong. He just said that affected board member would have to self-report self-report in response to a community member's concern. So it was in his first email on the matter and he said for what it's worth, I don't believe there's any any violation and I if you if you if

123you want to do that for yourself, there was another email before that. Um but either way, we said we were going to do this, so we have to ask ourselves how we want to do that. Um, I will say that I actually I have called their office. I called their their legal counsel, their general counsel actually, and I haven't gotten a response back and I'll follow up, but I don't really know even exactly how to ask it, but I'm going to follow those steps. So, I don't know if everybody wants to do that. I really think it's on each member. Um, I'm happy to if I learn anything, let you know what I learned. But I have a feeling it's a little bit of a it's I don't think that it's going to be um

124an a clear answer really, but I'll find out. What about you guys? How what is your update on that one? I I have not self-reported or called anyone. I'm trying to figure what the process is still. So, yeah. So if I learn about Bitcoin is I will tell you what I will definitely do and I don't and again I don't he did say that it's possible there is no process. It's a very awkward situation. All right. So number four recommendation to encourage transparency and campaign contributions. So we as board members agree that we will encourage ourselves and any future board member to follow the rules of campaign finance which we all do sitting at this table. We encourage it and we do it which is you have to file all your files with your donations

125that you receive and all the expenditures that you expend with the Hamilton County Board of Elections. And I know that all of us have done that which is great. We already did do that. We It is transparent. It is public information and anyone can look at it at any time and you have been able to look at it for as long as we've been running for really before we ran or we became a board members. But we also said that what we would do is we would I think we talked about post a link people have a hard time finding it. They have a hard time finding it. So what we could do is do a PDF like or sorry scan like print ours out or get or link and give it to who would

126we give it to? We give it to our treasure. You could send it to me and we can find a place to put it on the website. I was just going to say to save all the passing of emails, if you just want to send it to Miss Johnson, I'll tell her what to put up there. I would put it under if there's a way to put it under the board tab, just maybe create a new one that says campaign information. I'm gonna be a little bit of a stickler here to ask this question and I I don't mean this in not trying to be koi but are we allowed to put campaign stuff are because we're not allowed to do anything related to campaign as when we're board members like we're not allowed to

127technically do that it's my understanding we can ask so we should just ask I mean he didn't say we couldn't and he was part of this process so but we could verify with legal by the next resol resolution that's whether It's a link directly to the board of elections or there to comment. Yeah, the link. Yeah, link to the board of elections. That would be better because and here's why. We have like I have an amendment that I need to make on mine and I'm waiting for a I'm waiting for a report or from a Are you waiting for an amendment or did you just do your amendment? I just did my amendment. Yeah. I called them and they said wait for them to give you the paperwork. Yeah, they said and then that's your

128receipt. So that way it's current update because otherwise I'm going to be sending you like multiple documents. Right now it is. Here it is. And then if there's an ink kind donation that you you get later then you need to add it on. That would that would be much easier if we current because we just had to file recently. So it's updating constantly. All right. And then number five is wait. Oh, I missed. Did I miss something? Before we move on, so how would we do that? What do you need from us? So, right now, by the next board meeting, we will have an update after we talk to legal to number one answer the question if providing a PDF is is legal or if we just do the link back to the website if

129that's appropriate. But we'll get the answer from legal so that we can talk to you about what those two options are and then you can decide which one's best. Okay. And I don't know if the board of if the board of elections needs to have u verification or from us individually to to provide that. No, it would just be a link to their it's a link the public to their actual then it is people would still need to search. Yeah. Okay. We'll just have to see also how easy it is because if you file paper reports versus electronically I don't know is it harder because mine's paper and it's super easy. Like I click on it. I think I think No, I think it's easy as well. Okay. But is it for electronic hard? I

130mean is it hard for people to find the electronic ones? You just have to go to a different place to find is that it? Okay. Well, maybe we Yeah. But maybe PDFs are better. I don't know. Mine is is is paper but when you click on the link it pops right up. I I have it's for me it seems very easy but I've heard people say well it's hard to find. Maybe it's because some people file electronically it did it differently. I don't know if you can get back to us by the next but either way public please know that you can look online in the Hamilton County Board of Elections and you can find out every single penny we have received and every single penny that we have spent and the names are there

131and every single date and it's it's all there. It's already there. It's already transparent, but we're going to try to make it even more transparent. And for future elections, we're going to ask that candidates who are running do the same. It's not going to just be the current board. It's going to be the future as well, which is very, very important. All right. Um, so we are now on that's letter C, number five. So that's why I'm bringing that up. All right. Now we're number five. Um, are we supposed to make a statement from the board? Did we say we were going to do that? We did. But what would we We authorized the board president to issue a statement to the public on behalf of the board regarding these actions. So once we've done

132them, we could like create like a resolution that says these are the things we've done. I don't think it be a resolution. I think we just stated another board. Yeah. Okay. All right. So we'll we what should we do? Aim for like the end of June for that or like when do you want to aim? Do you do we have a timeline on that or we're just going to do it? I would say just put it on, you know, end of June or beginning of July or end of July meetings for an update. Does that work? You got for everybody? Yeah. So, end of June, beginning of July. Let's say end of June just for an update. Okay. All right. And then commitment. The last one. There's really no action. No actions. Yeah. Okay. Thank

133you. Okay. So that is and then so for the next meeting want to make sure do we want to we're going to put this on the agenda again because that's you're going to give us the updates requested from the All right. So next item is we just had this but we're still going to do again just if you had something extra to say a sack update. Um Mike Garren is um I guess you could say retired from sack now. He's been His term is up. His term is up. Um so Kim Rosean will be taking over as chair of um Zach next school year. Um also Victoria Margar um is moving from the communications chair to another position in sack. I have thoroughly enjoyed sitting on the spa uh council. Um heard that presentation that

134we heard today the the longer version. Um, and I'm just so thrilled at um, how our community rallies around district concerns, wants to reach out and help us um, and do conduct research. It has been a really good experience for me. Um, the second, so I won't jump. No, no, you can to the we can just do that. Okay. So on C you will see that we have three new members coming on and uh I think we I think we need to vote on this. What do we do? Do you need to make a motion? So let's make a motion. Oh, okay. Can I get a motion and a second for the SAC executive team members at large approval? Second. Thank you Dr. James for your motion. Thank you Dr. Steer for your second. And

135then do you want to just talk about it before we vote on it? Did you want to do something? We're just we're just going to go ahead and approve the new officers. Right. Correct. Okay. Uh Mrs. Logan, please call the role. Dr. James, hi. Dr. Seager. Hi. Mr. Balon. Hi. Mrs. Bidder. Hi. Okay. There's um other I put we have an other at on the other board business. If anyone has anything else, have we missed anything? Uh we figured out the June the summer board dates which are going to be at 8 am at the district office for the next starting June 4th 25th and then the one in July. Um anything else? All right. Meeting is adjourned. Wait, hold on. Oh, I'm sorry. I was like looking down and looking at the board. Pardon

136me. Go ahead. Yes, please. Would you like to do public comment on our other Okay. All right. Logan, sorry we forgot. going to meeting is not adjourned here. Right here. Yeah, there Ellen Owens 7330 lane. Um I just would like to tell the board that uh since the uh Ohio legislaturator's been meeting, I probably make phone calls uh for items for education probably every day. I call, I email, I haven't um testified, but I just want you to know that I am doing that um every day. Thank you. We need more people like you. Yeah, excuse me. We need more people like you. Encourage everyone. But it's interesting to learn the committees and and then call these people. Some of them they don't they don't. Anyway, that's what I want to say to the board

137and I will continue. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. And I apologize. I didn't I wasn't realizing you were going to talk at that time. So, thank you. And meeting is adjourned.