001Good evening. I'd like to call this December 8, 2025 board of education meeting to order. Call the role. >> Miss Hoffman >> here. >> Mr. Conqu >> here. >> Mr. Lavallet >> here. >> Mr. Feller >> here. >> Mr. Bowden >> here. >> Thank you. Please join us in the pledge of allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God. indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> This is our first opportunity for public participation for items which are on the agenda. When I call you up, if you just state your name and your address is our sheet. Okay. All right. Tracy Donnelly right here. Good. >> Right there. Good. But I go a little bit this way since >>
002don't want my spot. [laughter] You do. I'm okay with it. I'm okay with it too. My name Ohio 43412. Um I just we've had this discussion with physical education and the PE waiver and we're going to start off my speech with what is physical education and according to shape America it's a planned sequential sequential K12 standardsbased program of instruction designed to develop motor skills knowledge and behaviors active living physical fitness sportsmanship self-efficacy emotional intelligence and demands the same education rigor as other core subjects. I have my master's degree and plus over 30 credit hours, my state license certification that I have to renew every 5 years and take six credit hours to do so just like every other educator. I am not capable of teaching band because I am not certified in that area. But
003the PE waiver allows band teachers to fulfill the requirements of physical education instructor, as well as coaches, which many do not even have a teaching license at all. I cannot comprehend how this is acceptable for Sylvania schools that has a vision to be the leading school district in Ohio. One reason that has been stated in favor of the PE waiver is for more choice and opportunity. And that is correct. It will give more opportunities for our students to be sedentary, more opportunities to flex in and out of school, and more opportunities for them to be on their phones and social media, which is the exact opposite message that you sent when cell phones were not allowed in school. But you did vote that students were able to bring their smartwatches to school so they could
004track their fitness, which is also contradictory to the PE waiver. If the waiver is passed, it will allow 182 band members and 813 cheerleaders and athletes from the,250 students at Northw to opt out of physical education, as well as the 165 band members and 675 cheerleaders and athletes [clears throat] from the 1130 students at Southview to do the same. Over twothirds of the high school population will have the opportunity to opt out of a subject matter that has state standards that will not be met. One of the biggest concerns with PE waiver is the fact that is a form of segregation just like the smart watches that are allowed in school. This further separates the halves from the have nots. families that have the money to pay for travel sports, personal coaching lessons, pay-to-play participation
005fees for all athletic teams, tumbling lessons, instruments, and personal music lessons are the ones that will be able to opt out of PE, and those do not have that ability will have to take it. Physical education is the only class that is all-inclusive currently. We have students of all levels, all learning styles, all athletic abilities, all leadership abilities, all physical abilities, all academic abilities, even all language abilities. We are the only class where non-speaking English learners can actively engage in our class and be immediately successful in class. It is unfortunate that the board of education is even considering implementing more segregation into our schools. The financial piece is very important, but we have suggested several ways to save money without the waiver that I am hoping the board of education will consider. Physical education is
006a class unlike any other that is completely inclusive of all students. Not necessarily everyone likes it. I was telling Michel today if I could have opted out of English I would have. [clears throat] The PE waiver will destroy the environment in the physical education classes. Your actions speak louder than your words. Implementing the PE waiver is a detriment to Sylvania schools and every student in this district. Physical education is more than physical activity. We teach life skills in our class that cannot be obtained in any other class. If you truly care about Sylvania schools and students, all students, then you will vote no on the P. Thank you. [applause] 389 Road. Good evening. Thank you for allowing me to speak again about the proposed physical education waiver. At the previous meeting, I spoke about the
007academic and staffing implications of this waiver. Tonight, I want to approach this from a more personal angle. I did not graduate from Pennsylvania schools. I graduated from a teenytiny high school in Hancock County called Mcome, where I only graduated with 39 other students. I did not have access to dozens of AP courses or the pressure to constantly stack my schedule with advanced classes because they were not even offered. Instead, I had something that I now recognize as invaluable. Balance. I played sports. I was in band. I worked worked a job and was involved in my church. And yes, I still took gym. That balance made me a well-rounded student and ultimately a well-rounded adult. When I applied to college, I didn't need to show that I spent every hour of my life chasing academics. I
008could show that I was involved, healthy, responsible, and able to manage different commitments. And despite not having what would some would consider the academic edge, I still graduated sumokum laad from the Ohio State University in 2020. So when I hear the argument that students need this waiver to make room for more classes, I honestly worry. It tells me we are pushing students towards schedules and lives built entirely around academic pressure. That's not preparing them for success as preparing them for burnout which many of our gifted and highle kids already experience. and it is definitely not educating the whole child which which this district claims to value. This waiver will reduce PE participation, reduce PE staffing, and reduce opportunities for students to develop physical, social, and emotional skills that matter just as much as any AP
009or honors grade. It does not help kids in the ways the board may believe it will. In fact, it reinforces a mindset that success is only measured by the number of advanced courses on a transcript. I also want to address something that many teachers have been discussing. Trust. If this district expects the support of its educators, especially with a levy in the future, we need to feel respected, valued, and heard. Right now, many of us do not. Hearing [clears throat] teacher concerns about the waiver dismissed has made a lot of us worry of stepping up to help when the district asks for it. We want to support this community. We want to support our schools, but [clears throat] that has to be a two-way relationship. When decisions consistently cut teachers, minimize our expertise, or disregard
010our warnings, it becomes harder and harder to believe that our voices matter. Tonight, I'm asking you again, support the whole child. Support the educators who show up for these kids every day and do not pass the PE waiver. Thank you, [applause] David. Hello, I'm David Briggs uh 7865 Court. Uh I was not student but but I did graduate from Indiana University. [laughter] Um I I'm not speaking up here fortunately for for my job. Um I'm not in threat of losing my job. Um not speaking for anyone's job. I'm speaking for the kids. Um and and I know that this is a wrong decision for our kids. Uh you ask us to have our decisions researchbased uh and data driven. And the research has been shown to all of you how important that is, how important
011being physically active is, not just outside of school, in school. Instead of sitting in chairs all day, get up and move around. Research shows that that's true. Um, now the other side of the coin, uh, I'm not so sure how much research in, uh, there is on getting rid of this or adding this fizz, uh, waiver. In fact, the research that you have shows that it demolishes a program. Um, and [snorts] you know, and you've talked to you've had our principles talk to you about the fact that they wish that they had not implemented this. Um, and and those are facts and that's research and that's what you have gained. Um, so I I just have a hard time understanding why it's even been considered. Um, couple falsehoods that I've heard. Um, got a couple
012of them. Uh, one is that students are required to take fizz right now, but they're not required to take the arts uh, in high school, and that's not true. Um, they are required to take the arts and they're required to take phys. So, um, that's a falsehood. Uh, the other one is scheduling conflicts. Um, I asked for data on that and have not received any data showing that we have scheduling conflicts in our high school uh, whatsoever. So, I'm not quite sure where that came from. And and and lastly, respect to teachers. Uh Tracy touched on um you know you can say you respect us but if you're going to have someone that sees a kids for a couple months a year has zero education background and saying what they're doing is equal to what
013I'm doing that's disrespectful. So I ask for your respect. I I I think you need to get rid of this and and keep that in the classroom. It's what's best for our kids for sure. [applause] >> [clears throat] >> Hi, Bill 6745 Maplewood. I'm a I'm retiring folks. [laughter] So, if you guys choose to get in the fet program and choose to screw this district up, that's on you. That is absolutely poor decision. You know it's a poor decision, but yet we're going to browse it and we're going to make it done anyway. which seems to be the way things been happening. You know, I I hear this about how it's tough for kids and schedule conflicts. You know, my kids, they endured hardship. You know, um my my son uh took AP classes. He
014was the senior patrol leader of for Boy Scot Troop 154. That that's where I'm heading as soon as we got here to continue serving in that job. Um you know, he uh he took AP classes. You know, every morning, you know what he does? He wakes up and he lifts. He still lifts from his time playing football and from his time being with his buddies. And about about oh once a month I get a I get a text from my son out of Clear Blue. I just set a squat record today. You know uh my daughter uh she's also uh in in school. She did AP. She did honors. She did the whole thing. And you know what? They both still took phys. Had no problem fitting that into their schedule. So that's absolutely ridiculous
015that this is causing schedule conflicts. Okay. One thing we as parents need to learn is a word we've forgotten. No. Okay. If they can't fit this AP class because they need fizzed, then take the AP class next year. Take summer fizzed. It is very doable and it's absolutely ridiculous that we're going to eliminate fizzed to make a couple of kids happy. Okay. Again, I've heard three different people stand up here and tell you the data doesn't show it. You have yet to provide us with the data that shows that it does work. We have a history of the fact. I mean, let's take a look at how we browbe our athletic directors to create this new super league in the NLLL. How's that been working for Sylvania Sports? Okay, so we're getting our tails kicked
016and maybe in 5 years we won't have athletics because our kids aren't going to play for a team that can't win and now we're going to browbeat this elimination of fizzed in the arts. I think it's disgraceful. I spent 32 years in this district and I don't know if I'm proud to say that anymore, but I will tell you again, my address is 6745 Maplewood. If you vote for this phys waiver, do not knock on my door when you're running for elections. I will not vote for you and I will campaign against you. [applause] There's seniors in board members of 9549 Auburn, Pennsylvania, Ohio. First and foremost, I would like to thank Dr. Mley and the board for meeting us with us last week. Your time and willingness to listen to us was greatly appreciated.
017Um, tonight I am not only speaking to you as president of the Sylvania Education Education Association, but also as a teacher and a member of the Sylvania community. In all of these roles, I care deeply about how our schools and our create and create about creating learning environments that are true to our district mission to educate, empower, and inspire students to reach their full potential as lifelong contributors to a global society. as well as working towards our vision to be the leading school district in Ohio. With that in mind, I'm speaking tonight to urge you to reject the proposal to allow Sylvania students to use a PE waiver for earning the necessary physical education credits to graduate. Educators have shared information with you about [clears throat] how fizzed classes and programs in other districts have
018been weakened as a direct result of a PE waiver policy like the one you're considering, meaning students are getting a diminished experience. We who are in schools every day working with kids know the impact of this policy change. We know that it will negatively impact students physical health. We know that it will diminish the sense of community in our schools with more students being able to arrive late and leave early. We know that it will cause a district-wide staff disruption because it will mean the loss of PE positions just like in other districts that allow waiverss where some of our beloved elementary school PE teachers will lose their positions as schools as high school PE teachers are moved into their teaching assignments. We're not speculating. We know this will happen. It's happened in so many
019other districts. And once it's happened, it can't be undone. Please, when you vote on the PE waiver policy, consider that what education experts are saying, the evidence from other school districts that adopted this policy, and the importance of staying true to our mission and vision. Thanks for your consideration, [applause] [applause] >> Brian. spot. >> Hello, I'm Brian Helman. Um 382 North McCord, Toledo, Ohio 43617. I'm a PE teacher at Timberstone uh resident obviously. And uh my parents live in Sylvania. I live in Sylvania. My kids live in Sylvania. Uh last year when I came and spoke on this topic, I had a whole speech and data and statistics. And this year I'm just going to speak from the heart. Um cuz yesterday I slipped and and fell and uh rolled my ankle really bad. And
020it made me think of a pertinent quote for this. You know, when when you're injured or when you're ill or when you're sick, you have one one goal, one want, one need, and that's to be healthy again. And when you're healthy, you know, you have several goals and wants and needs. But when when there's an issue physically or mentally, you have one goal, one want, one need. And to teach our students opportunities to be physically healthy, to be mentally healthy. I think we cannot cut an opportunity to do that. So, um, I just knew if I had to speak today because if I didn't, I would regret it. And I was thinking about that quote and the future Savannah schools and our our physical education department. And I know this waiver will devalue and degrade
021our our P departments. And I think our kids need all the opportunities they can to be mentally and physically healthy. So I urge you to employ as many other opportunities you can to make cuts. I know the budget is very challenging time for the budget and hopefully we can find some other way to to save some money and not sacrifice our kids physical and mental health for that. So thank you very MUCH FOR LISTENING. [applause] >> [applause] >> JOHN HAYNES. [clears throat] Uh my name is John Haynes. Um I'm a a visiting instructor down at George Southern University. I teach sport, exercise, uh psychology. Um longtime Spain resident. Um grew up [clears throat] through Spain schools. Uh the Ohio for you, graduate university, taught in the district for about 8 years, and also coached soccer
022for you for about 8 years. Um, and to be honest, I got to town about a week ago, and I was told about this. I figured I'd show up because, um, I think this is really important. So, I could throw stats at you. Um, I'm sure you've already heard them. Um, but I can run you through two things. One is in my class I basically throw out the the statistics of what exercise psychology is about like so you know exercise adherence um talking about you know what the effects are on health with students and athletes and such like that and then I posed a question to my my students about this exact topic. They've all been through high school more recently than I have. They've all been given the the opportunity to weigh in on
023waiverss for PE making it optional versus mandatory. Every single one of them, 80 students say mandatory. And that is because for some of them it is the only exercise they get because they don't have access to things like sports. They don't have access to getting resources or being able to play in community events because it's because money is so tight. Now granted they are coming from a lower SCES district than here. But I do think it's important to consider that that this is the only mandated program people may actually get their exercise physical activity guaranteed for them. And so if it becomes optional it plays into the other things that are important. I want to refer you a couple things right now. The four top micro stresses for teenagers in ball. one. Sorry, I get
024other side of notes here academic pressures. Okay, that is not including heavy school workloads. There's academic pressure about how to perform in school. Then it's about heavy workloads, demanding homework schedules and pressures to succeed academically. If the option is to opt out of athletics or sorry, physical activity or physical education in order to take more classes, it kind of contradicts what the district in my opinion is trying to do, which is to prioritize mental health. You're allowing parents to have the opportunity to add more rigor to the academic schedule or to a student's load, which might be counterproductive to what I believe is your district initiative towards promoting mental health. So, this could be a way for you to kind of say, "Hold up. We have a duty to protect in a certain way. Let's
025explain why this is important and why we believe in it. You already have experts in the room that are physical educators that can speak to the educa the uh the benefits of education or sorry physical education. They're not I can't. What I can tell you is that when you look at the data points and then you pitch this out to students that don't know all of the research, they still choose to go with making sure it's because they believe in this one. So, I mean, again, you probably heard tons of these stats, but what I'll pose to you is that you got 70% of students that are currently stressed about academics. 60% report insomnia, mental health concerns, trouble uh concentrating, right? So, this is a district's chance to keep a universal proactive public health mandate
026in place to ensure that they are getting that required amount of exercise. BDNF, you know, the uh the endotropic that helps kind of boost creativity and connections in the brain, all results from physical activity. So, in my opinion, it's something that's a no-brainer. So, I'll leave you with this. So, if you are thinking about this mandate of mental health, physical activity has got to be there. The WHO, the World Health Organization has it mandated for their school mental health policies, comprehensive physical education involvement. >> [applause] >> No one else, Amy. Thank you. With that, we everything. Thank you. Thank you. I recommend item 3.1, which is uh four overnight field trips as listed in the agenda. Southview track, Stranahan overnight trip, Northview baseball, and North View band. >> I'm approval. >> I'll second. >> Any
027comments or questions? >> Julie, >> yes. >> Greg, >> yes. >> Dan, >> yes. >> Cammy, >> yes. >> Kim, >> yes. >> Thank you. I recommend item 3.2, two, which is anou between SEA and the board of education regarding the professional learning days for teacher collaborate teacher collaboration work days. >> I'll move approval. >> I'll second it comments [clears throat] or questions. Adam >> Julie, >> yes. >> Kim, >> yes. >> Greg, >> yes. >> Tammy, >> yes. >> Dan, >> yes. >> Thank you. I recommend item 3.3 which is an MOU for the 2627 school year for the elementary calendar. >> I move approval. >> I'll second comments or questions? >> Adam. >> Greg, >> yes. >> Tammy, >> yes. >> Kim, >> yes. >> Julie, >> yes. [clears throat] >> Dean, >>
028yes. >> Thank you. I recommend item 3.4, 4, which is for a uh amended district calendar for the 2627 school year. I move approval. >> Comments or questions? >> Adam. >> Julie? >> Yes. >> Greg, >> yes. >> Dan, >> yes. >> Tammy, >> yes. >> Kim, >> yes. Thank you. I recommend item 3.5, which is option B, uh, for the district calendar for the 2728 school year as posted. I'm on approval. I'll second comments or questions. >> Julie, >> yes. >> Tammy, >> yes. >> Dan, >> yes. >> Greg, >> yes. >> Kim, >> yes. Thank you. I recommend item 3.6, a policy for a second read and adoption policy 5460, graduation requirements. I'll move for approval. Second, comments, questions? Yes, I do have some comments. Um, first of all, I want to thank
029everyone for being here tonight. Um, I've moved for this to be approved, so I feel like uh I I want to make a statement because there's so often you all come in here and you speak to us and we can't speak back or we don't speak back. And I know we've had a chance to meet with individual PE teachers and I know people have emailed me and I've emailed back and I want to thank everyone for um for doing that for taking your time to give us your thoughts and your opinions. Um, you know, we've been this has been at least on the minds of the board and the the agenda once at least a year ago. Um, for over for about two years now, a year since it was last time it was on
030the agenda when it was tabled. Um, and since that time, I know I have talked to so many parents, educators in the district, outside of the district. Um, so many of you have written and I want to thank you for taking the time to do that and I'm sure my fellow board members feel the same. Um, it's an honor to be part of a district that um, has so many people that are willing to participate in this policy uh, process. You know, I think what we've heard mostly over time is how important PE is. And I agree with that 100%. I don't I mean I I I can't stress that enough. I think that Sylvania does an amazing job of teaching physical education starting in kindergarten. I've watched it with my children. Um we have
031great educators and passionate educators and I'm so grateful for that. Um, I think that in the classroom and beyond, we have a history of of of not just in the classroom, physical education, but promoting health and wellness all around, running clubs, the elementary cross country series, danceons, um, the jump rope. I mean, there's so many things, the running um the each the um the walk-athons that each elementary school does. [clears throat] It's a it's something to be proud of. And I think I know I am I'm sure my fellow board members are and everybody in the district um these things are important but I also believe that by the ninth grade after 9 years of this education students have a right to make choices between them and their parent about what is right for them
032in their scheduling choices. And we know that there's scheduling difficulties. And I I know a lot of you may not have experienced it, but it happens with musicians, with other athletes, with people who want to take these classes. And there are we know it because of they're taking summer gym. And summer gym comes at a cost financially and in terms of transportation. So we know these people want the choice. Um, and I do believe we need to meet the needs of all students. And I think that that includes allowing parents and students to make the choice. We're not eliminating PE. And I know I understand that everyone thinks that it's going to destroy the program, but I don't believe that. And >> research and data. >> So I was respectful when you spoke. I would
033ask the same from you. Um, I know you disagree with me, but I disagree with you. And I think choice, this is an opportunity the state puts forward. And I think it's right to give parents and students the choice to make decision for their kids. You can still take PE. Students can still take PE. And I've been assured by the district that no one's going to force this on students. No one's going to push it. If your student wants to take PE, they can. If they don't have room in their schedule, they don't have to take summer gym. They can use the waiver if they are athletes or in this other physical activity. [clears throat] There's requirements. We're not eliminating the need for physical education. We're not eliminating the PE program. We're offering a choice.
034And that is why I support it. And it's unfortunate to me that it's been framed in a way that if you support this waiver, this choice for students that you don't support teachers cuz it's not true. And it's I know it's not true for me and I hear the mumbling and I've heard it before. But I do value educators. I do value teachers. But I also think it's fair. The state offers this opportunity for parents and students to make a choice. And I think it's right that they have it. So I I just hope that you can understand that is where if this waiver passes that is where my thought is with allowing choice to our families. Thank you. [clears throat] >> Does anybody else have anything? >> I just want to add I generally
035agree with what Kim said. Um, we're also in a difficult position financially right now. And we're about to have a discussion about putting a levy on the ballot tonight after this. And I think we owe it to our taxpayers. Even if we only save a small amount of money by implementing this waiver, I think we owe it to our taxpayers to do that before we ask them for more money because we're going to have to ask them for a lot more money. We're talking about I I think for my house for a for a house that's um for a house that's $400,000 that's valued at $400,000. We're asking for another $1,100 a year. And that's a lot. That's a huge ask. And I can't go to them until unless I feel like we've we've done
036everything we can to tighten our belts on our end. I um >> data is really important to me and it's something that I I I wasn't on the board the last time this came up. Um so this was new and uh so I've tried to gather data in a number of different ways. Um, I listened to the the voices that spoke last August meeting that I didn't attend. Was able to watch that uh online. Um, I've received a number of emails and uh been able to meet with several of you either on the phone or in person. I appreciate that. um been able to look at some academic research on on the uh the PE waiver um and really tried to understand what does the research show on it's been around all the time. Um
037the research that I was able to find uh is inconclusive. There's a lot of arguments that are that support the PE waiver. uh and there's a lot of academic literature that's that suggests that there's not a whole lot of impact uh at least negative impact on on the student. Um and so I I agree with with what Kim and Tammy have said and I appreciate um this opportunity. I it is real that it's a scheduling challenge. They exist. Um, I I understand that some of you don't don't see that. Um, I've experienced it in our family. I've exper I've talked to to parents who support the PU waver and and they've experienced it as well. Um, I'm I'm an educator. That's what I do. I recognize that this is difficult, but I have a different
038hat on tonight. And I think the hat that I'm wearing tonight is not only to represent um the teachers of this district, but also to represent other stakeholders, and those include students and parents. And that's why I in support So being the senior board member up here, I'm 16 years in and this did come up last year and I think at one of the meetings somebody said, you know, this has come back a lot. Um, in my first 13 years on the board, it did not come up. I mean, it was talked about and then it was quickly gone. So I think I come into this a little differently. Um, maybe just from the people that sat around the table with me. Um, and I I hear all of you and I I do agree
039that I think it's better for kids that we don't pass the PE waiver, but what I want to say also is, you know, that's my opinion and you all have your opinions and you're strong about it and I appreciate that you came to say that and I know that some of my colleagues are going to um vote to pass this and I know that they respect teachers. Um, it may I know that I know that and this um [snorts] I don't agree with them. I'm not going to agree with their vote, but I respect them and I know that they respect you. Um, this doesn't mean that they don't. I And again, I I don't agree, but um I appreciate everybody that's reached out. I sit here uh anticipating this is going to pass and
040being very disappointed. I don't I do think it's um I think if the research is inconclusive then maybe we are air on the side of caution and we don't gut our program um that does affect kids positively cuz I believe that um so thank you all for coming. >> Wasn't planning on talking. >> Okay, you don't have to. >> Okay, >> Adam call. >> Uh Kim, >> yes. >> Dan, >> yes. >> Tammy, >> yes. Julie, >> no. >> Greg, >> no. >> With that, we're with you. >> Thank you. I am recommending items 4.1 through 4.4 on agenda basis. 4.1 is an exempt retirement Clark. I want to thank her for her 30 plus years of service to the district. She will be missed wealth of knowledge that hopefully 4.2 substitute 4.3 is 4.4
041[cough and clears throat] questions. >> Julie, >> yes. >> Tammy, >> yes. >> Dan, >> yes. >> Kim, >> yes. >> And Greg, >> yes. Thank you. I will recommend items 5.1 through 5.4 on consent agenda basis. 52.1 are classified retirement. Congratulate those folks on their retirement rules. >> 5.2 are classified new hires. 5.3 classified personnel changes and 5.4 are classified. Approval on a consent agenda basis second. Julie, >> yes. >> Deian, >> yes. >> Greg, >> yes. >> Tammy, >> yes. >> Kim, >> yes. >> Thank you. I will recommend items 6.1 through 6.5 on a consent agenda basis. 6.1 are supplemental positions for 2526 school year. 6.2 are non- teaching people activity contracts for 2526. 6.3 are volunteers for 2526. 6.4 Four are some changes and resignations to current supplemental positions for and
0426.5 are stipens for 25.6. I'll move for approval on consent agenda basis items 6.1 to 6.5. >> A second comments or questions. >> Greg, >> yes. >> Julie, >> yes. >> Kim, >> yes. >> Tammy, >> yes. >> Dan, >> yes. >> Okay. financial discussion as well. >> Yeah. So, I just wanted to follow up with um our conversation we had early November um and see if you guys had any questions. I didn't create this is just my uh presentation from last time. uh if you guys want to um talk about anything in particular, but um you know, I kind of will open up to you guys and and see if you guys had any uh time to think about and and discuss you know, the timing of a potential ask to our community or
043the type of levy. >> If we were going to do something in May, what are our deadlines again? >> So deadlines would be by February 4th, I believe. we have to have both resolutions passed. So that does give us, you know, the remaining this month and then the entire month of January to to pass both both resolutions. >> So can you show us the screen for the um for the property tax? Tammy, you earlier that property tax, right? Mhm. >> Yeah. I mean percentages of income everybody can figure out on their own for themselves. >> Yeah, that was based on the 7.9. >> Uhhuh. Yeah. >> 7.9 is >> it's what? 27 >> 277 per 100,000. >> Yeah. >> And that's a big levy, but that's what we need. >> Yeah. And and that that
0447.9 gets us, you know, positive cash flow till 2031. Um, again, all estimates, you know, times change, you know, all the time. 2-year state budget, you guys know all that, uh, gives us a fund balance of just under 34 with True Days cash in 2032 of 92 days. >> So, at this point, we're our decision points are what kind of levy we're going to go after, right? >> Mhm. >> Okay. See the advantage of May gives us you know if we collect this we collect the new levy at the same time. Um now income tax takes longer to collect the full you know that full cost you know the full revenue that's generated from that levy. Property taxes will collect sooner. So in next fiscal year we will collect half of that and then uh
045and then the fiscal year 28 we collect the full amount. So that's why um so we would posit or we'd have positive cash flow next year with a with a property tax. We would have a negative cash flow next year with an income tax whether it's earned or traditional. You said last time the income tax would grow over time. >> Could it has potential to now it would fluctuate property? >> No, you said it just could >> it has a little bit more of you know a result of the economy if you will. You know my previous district I worked at we did have a few years and and that did the income tax went down in revenue. Okay, >> which is totally possible, right? >> Um, >> you know, it is new. Um, it
046is a newer, you know, kind of thinking here. We have we have traditionally always done property. Um, fully aware of that. I believe it's my job to provide options. Um, you know, and and those are our two [snorts] options. >> How long has the income tax been an option for school districts? You know, >> a long time. It's just something that I don't think from my perspective I don't knowledge we've never >> it's never been >> here >> I mean the at least some locally I've been in around since the '9s. >> Adam will you just explain generally what the difference is between the earned income and the traditional since we have an audience tonight. >> Yeah. So earned um so a traditional tax base is traditional income taxes is really all revenue of an
047individual resident, right? So the businesses do not pay. It's just residents based on their W2 income. Now social security uh benefits is they're not taxed in either traditional or earned. So those are those are not taxed in either option. Now a easiest way to say on an earned income tax side of things, your capital gains, your um 401k distributions, those types of things, because you're not actually earning them, they're not taxed >> and there's no set off for income taxes paid to other jurisdictions. >> Correct. Yeah. Because it's just a school district tax. It's not. You know how like if you work in Toledo but you know live in Sylvania or vice versa, you have reciprocity. That is not a thing. A lot of people think that because it's income tax and that's how they're
048used to. But when you're doing a school district income tax, it's residents. It's similar to property. It's just a different mechanism on what they're calculating on how you pay. >> So how does that get collected? Does it does it come out of your paycheck? >> Yeah, we as an employer like we're obsessed employers. So like Sylvania takes ado income tax out of my check every time and it goes to department of taxation. They house it. They pay quarterly payments. >> So it would just come out of your paycheck. >> Mhm. >> You would get like a property tax bill. [clears throat] >> Would you mind going back to the screen that shows the three types the three options step by step? So you'll see in this kind of comparison you you have you know the
049traditional tax base gives us the highest value okay in 2032 again estimate but it is the because the income tax both options you're you're you're limiting businesses from that. So I think that's where it can look more expensive, right? Um because [laughter] >> so you're you're limiting the pool >> of people paying right >> with the earn >> with the income tax in general. And then when you look at the income tax of the two options, the why you need to get 1% to collect relatively the same amount of money over the 75 is because the earned income tax limits the pool further, right? So you have less people paying and these are all estimates based on from that I that I received from the department taxation. So the earned income tax the the fund
050value the revenue generated doesn't account for any growth in that right that's just based on today. >> Yeah I put like point five like under 1% growth. >> Okay. So that does account for a little bit. >> A little bit of growth >> but it's still about the same as the property tax. >> Yeah. I mean I initially I think I was thinking the earned income tax but now hearing that I might be just thinking property. >> I don't want to do the traditional. >> I mean I the income tax the problem for me is that we leave we're collecting more money but just from people who work. We're not collecting from businesses and apartment complexes and we're taking we're getting more money from less people and it's a lot more if you do the
051math and I feel like people will do the math and I know property tax is sort of a taboo subject right now but it's >> it's spreading it out over more >> it is it's spreading it out over more people it's making it it's less for everybody and also it's the Hey, it's the only tax that really I mean it works right now. You know, I see I hear these things about getting rid of property tax, but >> we got to pay. >> I can't imagine that's actually going to happen, >> right? And so, and the thing I like in the property tax, everybody pays. Even people who rent, you pay more to live in Sloania than you would if you rented the same type of property in your same businesses, you rent facilities and
052you pay more for being in Sylvania or based on wherever, you know, you pay that tax. So to me, it just seems like the traditional property tax spreads out the burden to everybody, businesses. We have a lot of big businesses in this. I mean, when you look at the Monroe Street corridor and a lot of our industry, it just seems >> And just to clarify, the income tax is only people that live in Sia. So, if you work in Sennsylvania, but live outside of Sylvania, you would not pay the income tax. >> Correct. >> 7.9 that is that skeptical. And that's kind of I feel like it's almost like maybe we we waited it's been 10 years you know we haven't been on the ballot for 10 years we've done great with managing the finances
053and but now in order to because of inflation because of the increased cost [clears throat] >> maybe we waited a couple years too long >> maybe we waited too long >> it's also hard to ask when you have a big fund balance you know >> you can't I mean I say like we need to put more in the bank so we have more of your money. >> No. >> Yeah. >> Years ago I was approached by previous superintendent and I was like I can't support you. I'm just saying we don't have enough money in our bank account. >> Yeah. >> So let me take some of your life. There's no way. >> Well I mean when down at capital conference Adam and I sat in a a session about levies and there are certain districts
054who they do it every 3 years regardless. it's like a constant they're on a cycle whereas we sort of tried to extend it and squeeze it as long as we could and we did and um which I think that's the right thing to do. I think the less we have to ask the better. But >> and Julie, I know 7.9 is a lot, but I think for most families, it's less than the income tax. It would have less impact than the income tax proposals, especially families with two working um parents, >> two working adults. >> For me, the property tax would be less. >> Say for me, it's almost half it. >> I mean, it I mean, it's real. I mean it would spread out over more more people. >> I mean no one's going
055to be excited about it right now. >> You know which is better for the district. I mean what's your recommendation now? >> Yeah. I mean at at the end of the day I kind of will push back on you guys like I'm newer to the district. It's not you know you guys as as you know representative of the community. I mean, I personally like income tax, but I because of that growth idea that captures the growth and the potential to last longer and and making one vote last 10, 11, 12 years. Um, but I totally understand the property tax side of things. So, I'm not trying to say I'm punting, but um >> well, you can't directly. So, I heard you say anchor tax. I get it cuz I think the other thing is with
056the property tax is that >> um we do have a lot of you know retirees and you know we tax them right out of the out of the community. If we can avoid hitting them as harm to me, but we can protect those that you really can't afford it because they don't have income and they social security and their social security retirement their retirement income. I was adding >> there property tax exemptions for homes that once you get to a certain I would have to research this but >> there has been proposals recently to increase those exemptions as well. I was initially inclined towards the income tax because of labor because of the anti-propy tax climate in the state and but everyone I've talked to and I've I've been asking people about this for the
057last you know six weeks just what do you think what do you think would be better and every single person has said property no well one person said income but probably 20 people said property >> um >> and I've gotten the same thing >> you know and I I don't know what to do with that because I I initially I was inclined towards income Um, historically, again, this doesn't mean right or wrong, but historically, communities like a Sennsylvania with our demographics and our income levels and our property values, it generally stick to property. Um, so a lot of a lot of more rural schools have gravitated towards the income side of things. And these are only options, right? There's no other mechanism. >> Yeah. >> Is that right? >> Yeah. I mean, there's a larger
058scale option, but it's take I I believe there's a sales tax option, but you need every school. >> That's the whole county. >> You got to have all the schools in the county do it. You divide it up by ED ADM. I mean that's really not a viable option. >> And the state's eliminated our ability to do a combined levy so we can do a smaller mill. >> Correct. >> Fantastic. >> So genius to make a decision. >> No. No. I I mean >> to let you know. >> Yeah. We can again February 4th is our deadline. You know I think >> need to make a decision. >> Yeah. So there needs to be two resolutions that we have to pass. >> Yeah. So the first resolution you're basically asking for the county commissioner or
059the you know the county auditor or the department of vet taxation to certify the millillage certify the percent. They're saying that x% or x millillage will generate you know hopefully what close to what I estimated. Um and then the the second resolution is just, you know, actually certifying the ballot language uh to put that on. >> I mean, I think I mean, does everybody know where they are with that? >> Well, I'm I'm with Tammy. I was initially thinking the earned income tax, but now now I'm thinking property >> might be the way to go. >> I'm squarely in property. Okay. Well, sounds like there's three properties. That sounds like that's what we're doing. >> That matters because there's already three. >> No. Okay. But I So I I do. Thank you. I come at
060this. >> I didn't even go. >> Greg's comment is getting rid of the property tax is never going to happen. I grew up in Southern California where in 1978 they had passed Prop 13 that froze property taxes. uh and it had a tremendous impact on public education and still does. >> And so to say it's not going to happen like at some point property taxes in the state of Ohio are going to get to a point where people are going to push back. And what do we do with I don't know what to do with that. I think that that is a factual statement. I don't know where that line is and I don't know where we are currently. I I tend to agree with you. I think for Sylvania, it pro as a general
061philosophy, tax philosophy, I'm against property taxes. It's because it's an asset that's not liquid. It is a huge burden. You can't sell your house. And so, if it's an income tax, it it's more progressive. It it it hits people that make more and it's people that make less less. And as a general philosophy, I'm in favor of of a progressive income or progressive tax system. >> Me too. >> Um, and that's why as a as as a principle, I would prefer the traditional income tax. I think to Adam's point about why a community like this would prefer an income tax or excuse me, a property tax over income tax, I think that makes a lot of sense. And so I think Sylvania, even if there's a general push against property tax, I could see this
062community recognizing the value of property taxes to support the schools. And so if that's with that understanding, I I could be in support of a of a propert I think I'm more in favor of it. >> Yeah. I mean, I think we've never tried it. So, >> well, I think you misunderstood me, Julie. I was generally in favor of an income tax. It's just that I've talked to perspective voters who are saying they prefer property, and I'm not sure if it is, but I want the income. I want the option of the pass. and just we're not voting this tonight. So, I reserve the right to change my [laughter] um >> get some numbers certified. >> Yeah, I know. >> We need to tell Adam what to put in the resolution. We can't postpone this
063forever. >> So, I think we need to leave here tonight. >> Which way? >> Yeah. >> You knew this was coming. Yeah. >> Well, between traditional and earned income, do people have preferences between those? Can we eliminate one of the options? >> Well, I think I'd eliminate traditional if it was me. I I don't I don't want to put that burden on, you know, people on fixed incomes and whatnot. Because if it was traditional, that would tax everybody, right? Regardless of where your income comes from. >> Correct. I mean they both exclude social security but traditional would include um retirement distributions and 401k distributions that >> I don't think I want >> I'm in favor of the traditional I think that it spreads across larger it's still progressive in the sense that if you're drawing
064a large retirement distribution you'll be tax more if you're drawing a smaller retirement distribution you'll be less. So, my preference would be traditional property earned. That That's how I would rank them. But I think that I'm okay to be help. And Tammy, I think your comment's valid. I mean, we obviously we want to we need to propose something that will pass, you know? I mean, we can't propose something that we don't think will pass. Um, and like I say, originally I was I was leaning towards the earned income, but I've talked to people too and I'm I think that would be harder to pass. >> It's just it's so much more on people's income and I >> But generally nobody agrees like it's more people that make more. >> Listen, >> I mean it's all
065relevant, right? 20,000 you're not you're not you know >> Yeah. But it's all so is property. I mean it's relative to the size house you live in. >> I mean I all I know is that the math is you you pay less with property than you would with the income tax. We're talking about a huge sum here. >> Yeah. But I mean I think in some property it's different because you know maybe when you bought your house you know it was affordable your property taxes and now with all the different things and your property value going up it's gone up and >> I couldn't afford to buy my house today. >> We won't we've only been on our house for six years and we value this. I think that's the diff that's the difference. Like
066if you know just like if you started out making 50,000 I know I hear you but I mean I do hear I just think it's you're still going to lose more money like whether you pay it to property or to income it's got to you're paying it right and if it's income it's double. But if you make a $100,000 or $200,000 a year, you can better afford to pay than some of the I mean, I don't know either way, but I just think it's kind of >> But you're paying more because we're leaving businesses off the table. >> I don't love leaving business. >> I don't either. Corporations and businesses and we're going to like double what we ask for our people. And the data the data shows from the 70s around the 70s8s till
067now from a percentage of property taxes. The last article um that was put out at the state level um says businesses have historically because of the tax law changes have paid less. >> Yeah, they're really benefiting from reduced taxes the businesses. I mean >> and so property taxes are at least by statute they're the millillage is frozen to that that year I mean so you don't actually it doesn't increase every year I mean right >> but your property taxes do that for us not necessarily for less but we pay to the state by every 3 years I mean mine just went off >> so what did did I just hear you say that businesses traditionally aren't really paying that much in the property taxes. >> Yeah. The the overall tax >> overall tax based on
068based on changes whether it be tangible personal property you know tax changes that was happened in like the late 2000s um like 7 to 10ish um you know so they used to contribute more percent inventory tax used to be taxes on inventory that >> tangible personal property. And I I know what we said earlier, but I do think it's tough that the state is very much limiting what we can do. That's that's >> not great. Yeah. >> Just makes it harder. >> I mean, one point that's significant to me is that the state has substantially reduced state income tax. I think there's a way we could effectively communicate that to the community, you know, just that it's shifting an income tax as opposed to creating one. I I'm just >> I don't know the convers
069I know the conversations that I had with so many community members were I think they just reverted to the concept of property tax, but we weren't talking specific >> sometimes talking specific religion. >> Yeah, it's hard to say. you're spending on your, you know, state taxes, so we're going to take a watch. >> Well, it's but the state's not giving it to us anymore, >> right? >> They were collecting it and giving it to us and now they're not. >> So, it sounds like >> as much property, >> get a resolution together and future agendas. All right. >> I mean, I know we're not done with that. >> No, but we have to do that. >> All right. This is a second opportunity for public participation for items not on the agenda. >> Okay. Um,
070see that I I would like an executive session for the purpose of um forming up a public official for that. M. >> Uh, Julie, >> yes. >> Greg, >> yes. >> Dan, >> yes. >> Kim, >> yes. >> Very informal. Sorry. >> But you're good. >> Thank you. We will not be taking action.