Board of Education Meeting - August 4th, 2025

001Good evening. I'd like to call this August 4th, 2025 Sennsylvania Board of Education meeting to order. Adam, can you call the role? >> Miss Hoffman >> here. >> Mrs. Conklin >> here. >> Mrs. Lavallet >> here. >> Mr. Bowden, >> here. >> Mr. Feller, >> here. >> We waited as long as we could. Mr. Feller, >> sorry, I thought I was in the admin building. >> That's what we thought you did, but we are all on SOS. Okay. Please join us in the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay, this is our first opportunity for public participation on >> signed up. >> No one signed

002up. Okay. Well, some of you we are going to ask for public participation because we may have questions. So then we are with you for our policy for a first read. Dr. Mley. >> Thank you ma'am. I am recommending item 3.11 a policy for for a first read specifically regarding personal communication devices. Um, as many folks may know that the governor and uh Ohio legislature recently passed um law or some requirements for public schools in regards to the use of cell phones in the building during instructional dur during the instructional day. Um that attachment is provided in the agenda um and is also available online for the first draft and we are here to discuss that draft tonight and how the district would like to proceed. >> Okay. Thank you. So, I guess we're going

003to have a discussion about it. We've all read it, correct? And we have um both high school principles here because this primarily affects high schools because of the policy we have in place now. Pretty much um >> K through eight. Yes. >> There's no using of cell phones. And I I don't think there is in high schools either really, but the kids can have it between classes and it's been a little looser, right? and at launch and >> it's a little bit in the for the beginning about six years ago at Northview we installed the wall caddies based on our feedback from teachers and so the majority of our classrooms they come in put them on the wall and then they can have class >> when I've surveyed our building it's about third that's between

004like teachers and kids like so that's the expectation but I guess it's me that I haven't followed through enough but it's a it's about 13 Okay. And so I think I think we all agree there's some question about what's an instructional day. Is it from first bell to last bell? Um you know so what do those things look like? And this is you know a new thing that's happening. So I guess correct >> a couple of schools of thought if I may add um in most circumstances along with colleagues that I've talked to um and here in the district working with our high school principles um with the law saying instructional day we're looking at first bell to last bell bell of first period last bell of the day um that students would not be

005able to have access to their phones. Now, there is another school of thought in all transparency. Um, several years ago, it's probably been a little over a decade now. Um, at one point in time when school districts went from number of school days to hours, there was a thought process at that point in time that instructional minutes were time that teachers were in front of students. So, your hall passing time and lunchtime was not considered part of the instructional day. Um but that was again presented for when we were looking at the number of minutes in schools or the number of hours in school to meet OD requirements. I think the challenge that presents itself and I think again why we have our principles here as well as Mrs. McDonald who's over support student student

006support services is looking at the management of having300 students in a building um and looking at what that instructional day looks like and our interpretation or I should say your interpretation as board members of instructional day is it from first spell to last spell or is the board interested in nuancing out certain aspects of the day such as the lunch period or um in between classes students would be able to have access. I know in listening to our principles, they are an advocate for first bell, the last bell. And that's what the feedback we've heard from the high school staff. >> And so, while it's not normal that we do a back and forth, I think we're going to do that because you are in the buildings and I think we all want to be

007differential like you're running these buildings and we understand that's a challenge to run high school buildings. But, um, I'm on policy committee with Dan and Dan brought up a really good point that I mean kids are all their extracurriculars. It's like remind. So if they're not having access to know that this practice was canceled or that practice was canceled or we're doing it then and they don't see it until after the last bell and they've already missed their bus or whatever. What I mean how are you going to get around communicating with kids during the day? Because let's face it, I mean this is 2025. Like nobody goes to the bank like we do everything electronically and so do kids. So how do you get around that? Absolutely. I think that's a great question. Um,

008so I think that there's a there's a little bit of a delineation that you're going to have between policy that you are developing and putting into place versus the practical application. So the practical application of this policy that you all are currently looking at mirrors our current junior high policy in which the cell phones are in their lockers or communication devices are in the lockers. We put forth that they're not going to have them access to them to during the instructional day. But in practical application, if I'm a student and I stop by my locker in between first period and second period, open up my locker, grab my math book, and look at my Remind 101. There's a coach from a message from my coach, a message from my mom. Nobody is going to roll

009up on your kid and say, "Oh my gosh, hand me that cell phone right now." Um, that's just not how practical application is going to work with this. So, I think that you raised a really good point as far as getting those messages. Having said that, I do think that the way that this policy is written would allow a student to at least within the 40minute block periods, that space of passing period be able to keep up to date on any sort of emergency communication. If there was in fact emergency communication, our phone lines are always open as well. So, I mean, previously we've had no issue getting messages to kids. >> Beyond that, we do have scrolling messages on the TVs. We can do PA announcements. So like emergency changes or things like that

010where they would have to know there'd be no reason we could spend 30 seconds at the beginning of a class coming with a PA to say what the changes or when we used to make announcements at the beginning of nth grade to let everybody know that you go back to that. >> Yeah. And and I mean I agree with you like if it's in the locker some kids are going to look but you know one of my kids if you said to her in high school your phone is in your locker until after last bell she wouldn't look at it. I mean I'm not saying like that's typical but you certainly have kids who are very much rule followers who I don't think would be doing I mean I certainly would have looked but I

011I have a kid who would not have. So, I mean that I think is a is a concern, right? And >> my my my main I should say main concern there's a few prongs that I think the cell phones have just they continue to change the game and we can't quite keep up like um texting to to vape to meet in the restrooms. uh the cheating like because it's just so easy to snap things and send things and get answers to things. Um, a big one is I'll just say fighting, but there's lots of stuff that's done for social media cloud and things are just recorded. Like no one offers to help. It's just like there's just 50 people recording things. And if we took that away, I think that would help quite a bit.

012I'm not saying there's never going to be another fight in South. I just think it changed the dynamic of the one we saw like at the beginning of the year last year when Mr. Japan's on the ground and it's basically just a bunch of people recording and then no no one's home. Um so definitely a few items in in addition to what I think is the obvious which is like the in and out distracted mind of a kid in a in a class period which is the number one goal that we're trying to fix. And that's why I'm a little less worried about it. I I get it. probably have to have a some sort of nuance policy to use uh Mark's word. But the the main part of what I'm concerned about is those

01340 minute chunks of the teacher being able to have the attention of the the teenager in the room. >> I guess the way I'm I I see our dilemma or our choices today. Obviously, we have this state mandate. Um, and and I, which I frankly, and I think most people do agree, we don't want kids on their cell phone during class. I mean, I I for the reasons Casey just said, and it's distracting, and I think we all agree with that. And I I'm I but I think the decision as I understand it that we have to make is whether we're going to allow kids to use it to look at their cell phones at lunch and in between class >> and um whether or not we will allow that cell phone to be on

014their person and just not out. So if it's on their person and and I guess the problem I'm having and and thank you for that example because that makes sense to me. But if if our policy just says they they cannot be used during the instructional day. So that means we better not see your phone. But if they're on your person is is the concern that the temptation is just too much. I I guess I don't understand how kids are on their phone during class if our rule is they don't use them. Is it because teachers >> I think it's I think it's a it's a great question. I think every parent wrestles with that as well. You know, I mean I I've told my child to clean the bathroom for the last 3 days.

015He knows to do it. I've set the expectation, but it's still not getting done. I think that the kids have that the temptation is very strong because it's a part of their existence now. it's a part of their social networking. Now, I think that one of the challenges that we run into, and Casey and I just kind of had some sidebar conversation, when we look at something like even allowing it for the cafeteria in a high school at least, a lot of our kids, or I shouldn't say a lot of our kids, some of our kids don't even eat in the cafeteria. We've got kids that, for example, we're doing band camp right now. Kids will go down into the music wing and they'll eat with their friends outside in the teachers classrooms, etc., etc.

016So, it's not even as though we could make like the cafeteria only the safe zone because we've got kids that eat lunch all over the place. Sometimes they go up to the media center, they go up into sometimes they're getting together like our StuCo kids will get together in a teacher's classroom for lunch to do their planning or or what have you. Um, I think that that's that represents or presents a challenge to us as far as being able to follow the policy and be able to execute the policy with fidelity. I want to try to answer the question directly as I can. The the thing that I've heard from a lot of teachers is that it's just not worth the the fight that that there should be it just becomes so big of a

017disruption and we get 40 minutes essentially that it's not worth having that battle and you'd like to think there were natural consequences on it and if they were adults maybe but what what it gets turned around on the teacher. the teacher's the bad guy for not teaching them the material or what have you. That's what we hear from the parents which really was like Johnny is the one who wasn't paying attention, who was distracted. The natural consequence should be that the poor grade or that they didn't understand this or whatever, but that's just not how it works. Like there's pressure from parents or the teacher has a bleeding heart and they want to still help that kid. So it becomes this it becomes a very sticky situation to enforce it. And that's why I sort

018of have that rise smile about the oneird. It's like even some of our best teachers are like, "Phone is part of the world. I'm going to allow you to have this, but I expect you to to to treat it, you know, and it's just I think that's where we're struggling. It's just not working." I can say as an instructor it is really difficult to teach with cell phones and I teach adults um where I don't have the ability to punish or but it's it buzzes. You don't hear it but it's noticed and that's a distraction. And so I I empathize with the the struggle that the teachers have. >> And if you do have a kid who's struggling, >> but this could play it on his phone, that's not fair to that other child. >>

019Well, trying to focus. >> And it's not even just playing. I mean, if it's in your pocket and it buzzes, >> ma'am. Ma'am, if you have public comment, we need you to write down so that we know who it is. Like, we have to our treasure has to keep appropriate minutes. We're sort of asking them because they're running the high schools and we kind of want their feedback as we work through this. So, we appreciate you being here and your com and and feel free to sign up if you'd like to um give us some comments. >> The little interruptions at the locker I think could become one of these points that we have to tease out a little bit further. But, and it might be counter to the argument I'm making. The other thing

020I failed to mention of like my big why I'm in support of banning them is all of the harassment. And I think just to not have the constant some of our kids, it feels like it's almost why they're here. And that's I don't remember that even just a little while ago. Not not crazy. I'm not saying that 20 years ago, but it's just all about the social media and a little bit of a harassment and like I'm going to pick nitpick and nitpick and that that's what turns into some of our fights is just I think yeah I think to piggy back off of what Casey's saying as well just in recent history and understand as many of you if not all of you know a lot of the kids at Northview I knew in

021elementary school so I've kind of seen this progression of of how they've come and It's not all of our students, but I will say that just from a community standpoint, we do have many of our kids that are struggling with socialization and intercommunication skills face to face. They have such a digital presence and such a digital existence, which can be good. And I think that that's that's just the times that we're in. But the sacrifice for that is that when they are in a predicament or they are in a social situation where they have to engage with somebody face to face, there are many of our kids that are struggling with it. They they're feeling anxious about even having to do it in some respects because it's a lot easier to send a text. It's

022a lot easier to send a message to Snapchat. It's a lot harder to talk to somebody face to face and gauge the emotional reaction that you're going to get. >> Yeah, I agree. >> Can I ask a question? So, are you advocating for keeping them in the lockers or not having them on campus? >> I think to a first step is keeping them in the lockers. >> Okay. >> I think to that end, and it's a great question. >> Yeah. >> To that end, we have to also keep into perspective that the population that we're going to be working with right now, okay, we're really only talking about three4s of our population because our incoming freshmen have already been living with this at the junior high, >> right? So, it's going to be tough on

023the on the sophomores and the juniors and the seniors, I think, in some respects. But, I think that as a first step right now, I think that that's where in compliance with this law that we're comfortable kind of being able to execute and make it happen. >> I I fully understand that it's artificial in the sense of like the part I get is like some other part of the world, but I do think there's a place for us as adults to start thinking this way. and even just trying to come up with a cohesive late work policy with both kids and teachers. What I found is the dramatic difference between an an honors class and another class, a 12th grader and a ninth grader. Like, so you're asking teachers to try to balance a bunch

024of different situations based on the kid. And I think they're begging us for like a little bit more of a just like this is the policy. This is how we're going to handle it. This is the expectation and class can return some level of normal learning. And yeah, I get that it's not the world we're graduating them into. But we're right now doing them a disservice I think by not putting some restriction on. >> So the state ban is on cell phones specifically. Um, we already have a policy that covers personal communication devices more generally. Um, where are you on like smartwatches? [Music] >> I we I personally would like to get rid of AirPods, like the earbuds, the smart watches, and the cell phones during the day because they're all the kind of the

025same distraction. Um, we had this discussion even in fourth quarter, we just ran like a little pilot program like we get all the kids to take their their earbuds out during like the transition. And of course, we have your handful of kids that just aren't going to play on anything, so they wear the headphones around. We're just But for the most part, it worked. And I think we run into a similar thing. I think we could make I think we should include the smart watches. Um I've heard I didn't know that some are standalone versus some only work when you have the phone. So, there's a lot of it. I don't think I fully understand but my number one thing is to try to get the teachers back to not being having the kids with

026like the constant distraction because I am afraid of the the has and have nots of this. we ban something then suddenly we have 800 smart watches being purchased that that was a comment that I got this weekend at one point when I'm trying to bring it up was oh we're going to have to get her a smartwatch and I because you can text and you can you can write text right on your little hand so you your concern about keeping the harassment going or the dialogue going can be accomplished on a Apple Watch >> when we're when we're break when I was brainstorming with Mr. your job cuz I think you were sort of hitting that how would it be enforced. We weren't running around trying to say like, "Oh, is that a phone in

027your pocket?" And we were going to kind of leave it as a watch is a watch until we see you doing this, then it's not a watch. Like, so we weren't going to stand at the door and make sure everybody took out their smart watches. But the minute some a teacher teaching class and you're doing this, then then I think that's in violation of the policy and that's no longer just a watch. It's a communication. >> I I mean, our current policy, they kids would not be permitted to be using smartwatches during class. is I mean what happens with that? >> I I'll just return to what I said that at first I think it has become a that's not quite how it's being enforced. So I'm not going to fight this battle and I

028I recognize that that sounds but I don't know what to tell you other than the honest truth and I think a more comprehensive restriction would help us. And I don't think that we I don't think that the smartwatch is at this point because we've allowed the cell phones the cell phones are much more desirable than a smartwatch. So you don't have a huge amount of our population that has the smartwatches because we've allowed them to have the phones at this point. Now you flip that. I think that what Casey's saying. You flip that for a minute and say, "Okay, let's keep the phones in the locker." You may see a spike in the smart watches. And I agree with Casey. I mean, it's going to be a watch. I have no interest in chasing down

029kids just because they're wearing a smartwatch or what. But the minute it ceases to become that and they're texting that they're doing what has taught, then that's when it be that's when it becomes the disruption that we're trying to prevent. >> I guess I'm struggling with the the smartwatches are already not permitted to be used that way. And I I know you're saying that not that many students have them, but what if they were I mean, would it be enforceable if you said you have to have your if you you have to have your Bluetooth turned off? I mean, is that something that would be impossible to enforce? Like once you if you could see somebody obviously if they're touching their watch, they're doing something. You know, it's a pretty visible action. Is it uninforceable

030if you I mean if somebody's sitting in class and they see a student going like this there's >> no that's enforceable >> is it enforced? >> I mean you know it's it's it's a loaded question. I would say from a policy standpoint yes. Um do we go around and do I have every teacher fully engaged with 30 kids in the room like keyed in on that 100%. No. I'm I'm sure that they're not. if it's if it catches their eye and they say, "Hey, you can't do that." Yeah, that's that's how it's typically going to be addressed. >> I'm just I'm asking these questions because I know a lot of people like me. Um but I think a lot of students use their smartwatches as activity trackers and um I mean I like to keep

031track of the data that I can, you know, that I gain in that regard. And that wouldn't be something that students would be able to do. I I think if I think if it becomes a distraction to the educational environment, if if they have a smartwatch that's connected to their phone or a smartwatch that has its own cellular capability, if they're seen playing with it, what have you, or or would may seem to be texting, then that's a distraction to the educational atmosphere, that's when it should be addressed. If if it's a smartwatch that has any of those capabilities and they're just using it to track, you know, activity, etc., and they're not spending a large amount of time focusing on it, it's it's not going to be an issue in the classrooms. >> But

032that can be enforced right now, right? I mean, if a kid's playing on his watching class or or anything that's against the current >> that could be a water bottle, that can be anything that becomes a Yeah, for sure. >> I don't I don't mean to play got with this. So, I'm just going to say exactly on the telegraph where I'm going with this and say my my question is going to be why is there a policy that's different in the junior high? And I I I think the answer is we're I think we're overestimating the like the maturity level of the kids. And like our policy has been different, but I guess I'm sitting here saying it's that part is failing. And like there's a there's a policy that's different for a 13-year-old than

033there is for a 14-year-old. And I'm not sure we all like for sure there are 12y olds that can handle it. For sure there are 18y olds who can't. And I think I'm just flipping it around a little bit. We we have two different policies already in the school. And I think what I guess I'm sitting here saying is I'd like to try that policy where it's a little bit more strict and of course we're going to become, you know, I know what the speed limit is on highway when they drive home. I see a lot of people that aren't following it. Can it be enforced better? Sure. I mean I lots of things can be enforced better but this gives us a way better baseline for the majority of classrooms majority of kids majority

034of teachers who are trying to do the right thing which is learn while they're at school. >> So I I'm that's I am trying to understand so I'm kind of struggling but are we talking about just cell phones out of in lockers or are we talking about all cell phones watches earbuds everything because the way I read the policy a personal communication device is everything. So is that >> I mean for I want it to be everything. I just we've kind of said in our side conversations that we're not going to run around making sure >> that you you're not wearing those watches. The teacher was saw you doing this. It'd be it'd be with our policy. Now it's like >> like behavior kid does some quick check nothing. Basically nothing happened >> unless that

035it becomes like egregious and then the teacher's going to take their phone. But but that has become such a fight, >> right? So you're saying >> more teeth to just say like this is what this is the board stance. This is the administration stance. There is no fight about this. We're still going to get some fight, but I think it helps a lot. >> So you're saying at the very least, let's keep the cell phones in the lockers. Is that what you're saying? >> I think the way that the policy, at least the iteration that I had seen, was that it could save all electronic devices. Now, having said that, >> you're not going to go around and make sure every kid's taking their watch off. I mean, I get it. And the dead giveaway

036for a smartwatch, whether or not they're linked in with it, is going to be your AirPods or your earbuds, right? It's going to be the dead giveaway. >> Yeah. And I just want to make sure I understand what I want to really understand because we have leeway in this policy where we can change it and, you know, so I just want to make sure I know what we're putting in this and what you're asking. >> Okay. >> I don't think AirPods were >> They weren't >> I don't I don't think they're covered by this policy. >> No, they weren't covered by >> Yeah, but they have to function with a personal they can't function. Right. But I just know they're plugged in. Well, >> yeah. >> I mean, you could potentially have an electronic device

037that only played music like I had in 2003. >> The iPod >> for the Walkman. >> And I don't Yeah, I don't think that would be a violation because these under this policy, it has to be something that's capable of transmitting a communication. >> I mean, I have an iPod shuffled in my office now and one of my teachers thought it was an antique. >> It probably is. >> They don't make those anymore. >> Yeah, it works. >> I can't find the charger for mine. I probably have what I can give you. My mind and I my mind always goes to the and I've mentioned this to to to Tammy as we've talked about it that the emergency situation and because that's where I think a lot of parents go in this conversation is and

038me as a parent where I go if there's an emergency I think of the Parkland documentary where you know kids are talking to EMTs and leading people and telling people where they are. And I I there's just this general, you know, I want to be able if there's something that goes wrong, I want to be able to get in touch with my kids. I think that's a fear that parents have in this unprecedented time of school shootings. And and nobody ever wants to plan for that, but I think that's a concern for me to at least have them in the locker. Um, I mean, we all have, you're right, we all have different levels of maturity from 9th grade to 12th grade. And I'd like to think kids should be able to keep them on

039their person without using them. But I understand I I get kids. I know that's not always possible. Um, but I do think that that's going to be a concern. We hear, you know, this emergency situation. I need to be able to have instant access to my child. Um, and not emergency access for some parents. I think that'll be a a a clawback, but I I don't expect you guys to have answers for that, but that I just guess I wanted it. Those are some of the thoughts I'm having as I'm contemplating where we keep these phones is um you know this whole emergency situation. C >> can I ask a question? What and I don't know the answer to this. I don't know you do, right? Like what is what does the law exactly say?

040As far as the emergency, >> well, as far as the personal impunation devices, >> the law says >> they're allowed to be >> Go ahead. >> Um, cell phones um starting January 1st, cell phones cannot be used by the student during the instructional day. >> Um, it just says used. Yeah. And it doesn't define instructional day. Right. >> So, this policy allows us to either you can the one that this policy that we've gotten from Niola gives us the option to have them you can keep them in your possession in a locker or not on campus at all. >> Right. >> And some schools are doing like those yonder bags, >> but we're not doing that. And I think you know we met as a policy committee and um you know with administration and um

041Melissa McDonald and overwhelmingly we were told the administration really wants to have to for the application of the policy wants them in the lockers and not on the person. And like I said you know at the beginning of this meeting you know I think as a board and I want to speak for my colleagues but I think I can on this. We want to be differential because we understand that you are running those buildings and it's a challenge, right? And we understand that. So, we're trying to find the right balance on, you know, what's the right way to do this, which is why we wanted you, you know, here tonight to so that we could ask these questions that everybody's asking and just really try to figure this out. Go going back to the emergency

042situation and or probably the most unfortunate situation that can happen in one of our school buildings and it happens. Um I know when the governor originally wanted I think it was House Bill 250 that each district had to have some type of cell phone policy which we had but we had a cell phone committee with administration teachers. Um and we surveyed our high school parents specifically and a lot of the feedback was what you're saying Kim. they wanted to be able to communicate with their student in that emergency situation. We brought that up and Mrs. McDonald can expand on this if she needs to, but we brought that up in a safety and security meeting like with law enforcement, EMTs, etc. in the room. They get it from a parent perspective. They want to know

043if their kids okay, but the last thing they want from the professional side of things in that situation are all the phone lines and no cell phone operations and things like that being able to exist because there are 1300 students potentially in a building trying to text or communicate with parents. I don't know if I expanded on that well enough, but that was pretty much the point from them. And I know we attempted to get them to this meeting and with the short notice we weren't able to, but it was pretty sign it was pretty specific that was the direction they wanted to go. >> And and truthfully in the Parkland situation, so many calls were coming out from the school that the 911 operators were um ultimately directing them to different agencies. So it

044was kind of it was kind of chaotic and they had different agencies coming in >> um >> and and so it was hard to manage that from but yeah I mean so >> but I get it from a parents perspective I want to be able to send that >> are you okay >> but that's where >> the chaotic situation becomes less communicative because of that >> the cell phones tied up >> so it causes an additional problem with everybody >> correct >> call and for safety services specifically right to >> slow down the getting of help. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I I just want to make sure we're thinking everything through. And I, you know, Mark hit on something that I also think is, >> you know, a lot of kids hide behind their cell

045phones right now. I, you know, that's it's easier to scroll in my phone than to >> interact with you, >> interact with me. And I I do feel like that's something that we could maybe change if we take that away from them. How is enforcement going to go though? Are you I just feel like it's going to be a nightmare at first. I mean, are we going to be like, "All right, I mean, it's going to have to be swift and serious at the beginning or >> it's going to have no teeth." >> So, here's what I would say, and a lot of teachers, if there are teachers in the room as well, and maybe some of you have heard, there's a book out there, Dr. B, you may be fully aware of that is

046called something along the lines of don't smile in until October. And it's all about basically your classroom management and how you set the tone and set the pace and and the kids will adapt. Kids I mean people in and of themselves are very adaptable. Um and it's going to be tough at the start. I I don't disagree with you. It's going to be tough. It's going to be a change. It's going to be a shift and we're going to meet some resistance. And I mean spoiler alert on that. A lot of our kids similar to like Jurassic Park and the Velociraptors, they're going to adapt. I mean, they're going to figure out different ways to try and bamboozle us and and try and weasle us through it and and we get that. That's that's a

047part of the doing business. So, I agree with you, though. But I think we're up to it. I think I think we're going to get great teacher support and and truth be told is I think at the end of the day, I think from a majority standpoint, I think that we'll probably also have a lot of parent support for this. um the statute or the legislation allows it requires um districts to allow students to use phones if they have a doctor's note saying that they need to use phones. How are you planning to deal with that? Are you expecting a lot of those types of requests to come in? >> So, it depends. Are you are you talking about a student like a medical note that would say, "Hey, my child needs like this for

048an accommodation for a 504 that kind of >> No, it says med. So I my guess would be it pertains to kids who are diabetic >> diabetic who apps on their phones. >> Our school nurse has a roster of those kids. >> Okay. >> Like we maintain those records. So that that has never been an issue of disruption. >> It says a district board shall permit a student to use a cellular telephone or other electronic device to monitor or address a health concern if the board receives a written statement from the student's physician requiring such use. So I think it could be broader than that. Well, so I mean if you got a kid that has to check their blood sugar, just to use that as the example, and that's done by their phone, we

049have a roster of those kids. We typically will notify those kids. They get a power school alert as well, so that any teacher that works with that student knows that that's going to be a part of their need while in the building. >> Candidly, my concern is more that you're going to get notes um from physicians saying that students need to have access to their phones for their mental health. I I mean that's that's how I interpret this is opening the door for and I don't know how you how you address that. >> I think we need to be prepared for that eventuality. >> I mean if they do then that would we typically channel those through the 504 process. >> Okay. >> That that's it's an accommodation that a student would need. >> Um

050and so we have a process for that. We have an IT process that would follow for that. >> And and in the legislation this particular provision is separate from the um language that speaks about the IEP process. So I think it's in addition to that. I I'm I'm not, you know, I'm just reading it, but um I'm not trying to set my own expectations, but I think that that's something you need to be prepared for >> because it's separate. It says medical reasons, which is really broad and really vague. And you know, in the employment law realm, we've seen this with employees who get notes to have special and it's in housing everything, I have to have a dog type thing. So, I think it's something we're gonna have to keep an eye out on

051is just vague medical reasons and we need to have a plan in place for okay, what's gonna what's going to happen when these medical requests come in? How are we going to scrutinize them? Because we've gotten no guidance from what's medical reason. >> I'm not even sure they have to provide a reason, >> right? Like in the statute. It's very vague. It's not a great law. I I would assume if there's a medical reason that a student would have to have a doctor's note that would be on file with the school. >> Yes. So they could get one. >> But doctors will >> I mean they shouldn't, right? Well >> I mean doctors shouldn't >> prescribe something that's not needed, right? I mean that's on their that's on their license, right? >> Yes. >> So

052I I find it hard to believe >> 300 kids are going to go get a note from a doctor saying they need it for anxiety. >> Not 300, but >> I think it'll be 500. I think it'll be several and I think you would be surprised at what doctors >> will I think it will happen. I I'm not not at the not at the 300 level. No, but I do think it will happen. I don't get tested. >> I think it'll happen. >> I think it will happen. Absolutely. I think one of the things we can give some consideration to though. I think we'll see a lot more upfront um especially as this law transitions. But in year two, when you have two great levels that will then become have become accustomed to not having

053the phone, I think as it goes on, I think it will phase out for those kids who truly need it versus those kids who are perhaps >> can't do without it cuz I'm >> and I'm getting a doctor's written response from a doctor asking for a totally different reason because I've had it for three of my four years in high school. I'm going to the doctor. But if by time I'm in 10th grade and I haven't had it for two years, I do think over time it will get easier and there will be less. >> I'm sure that's true. >> It's just the pain to go through. It will be painful up front and I do think going on the record I do think we'll have a lot of parents who seek a medical um

054support or of some nature written response that says depression, anxiety, a combination of both, autism, whatever. Um they may go to the doctor and say this will be a dis they need this to get through the school day. It's their coping tool just like a support animal. We're going to have to think about what that looks like. I think it will be fast and furious this year. For some kids, it is a tremendous change. And I'll go a step further. For some parents, it is a tremendous change. But I think over time, it will get better because it will be the new normal. We just have to get through the next three years >> to get through. Absolutely. >> Absolutely. But you're right. The law does not say that if a doctor comes in with

055a prescription, and I know I'm one of the older ones in the room, but it used to be someone would a doctor would write a prescription, you need a IEP. You know, Veronica Mi needs IEP. Here you go. Well, funny. Now, that's why we have laws that say against that, but that law is not explicit in this particular statute. It specifically says >> yeah I don't think this law requires them to go through the IEP process for this >> but it wouldn't I I agree but I would say just how districts in the past have had to respond to an overwhelming influx of something. It doesn't say that in a year someone will say we need to look at that written response differently >> because I know it's a school district at one time you

056could get a report or a doctor's note and say my kid needs an IEP and the the district would respond and say we'll put them on an IEP. Then there were processes and model guidelines and model policies that were put in place from OD that said you can't do that anymore. You have to go through a policy or a practice or a protocol. And the one thing that I did read in the statute I do believe is that the Ohio Department of Education and Workforce is supposed to develop a model policy. Unfortunately, I don't think it's expected until December. Um, which we're having this discussion now and the desire of our high school folks and really as a district, one of the reasons we're having this emergency meeting tonight or special meeting. Oh, did they

057strike that one? Um, of course they did. >> Oh, you're right. They did. That would have made sense. Yeah, they were going to give us model confidence. Now they're not. Um, but I also think the purpose why we're holding this special meeting is because we have a desire to start this policy prior to January. We would like to start um August 19th, which is exactly 15 days away if my math is right. Um and so hence why we are meeting tonight to have a discussion to hear from our educators and our families and um to see what our next steps would be for the board to consider because that's why we had a meeting to have a first read. We want to hear, we want to learn, we need to talk about our considerations. But

058I do want to make it known it is a desire to start this school year, first day of school with a policy in place. That's been the ask. And and I would say I'm I am fully in agreement with starting it before the school year. I think making that transition in January would be very disruptive and more difficult. So I understand the desire to start it now, which is, you know, why we're here to to talk about it. And I think it's, you know, I don't know where my colleagues are on that. >> Yeah. I I mean, if it's something we're going to do, I'm um I I do think doing it at the beginning of the school year is going to be a lot easier than trying to start it in January. I mean,

059I think it could be done if that's what we decided to do. But do we have another meeting for a second read before we >> Yes, that's why we threw this because we have one more. So, and I already know you were okay with you're still okay with >> I am more than okay. >> More than okay, believe me. So I think collectively it sounds like we agree we should start we should try to >> beginning of the year >> the beginning of the year. So then then the question becomes is it an in the locker or it can be on the person like that's I think there was a few things we really need to drill down to other than when do we start it. So it's um locker or on person and I

060understand from our administrators >> they want it in the locker. So but we pass the policy. So where are we on that? >> And also definition of instructional day. >> Yeah. Well let's get back to that. Let's try locker. I mean those are the things we have to pin down. And then lunchtime in between classes that sort of thing. >> I am I'm good within the locker. I'm hearing I'm hearing what you know what Casey and Mark have said and how it will it will really free up teachers from having to deal with that. Um I I'm I'm fine with in the locker. I kind of swaying a little bit in the lunch period. >> We're going to do that one next. >> Okay. >> Let's do these one at a time. >> I just

061I don't know. >> So we're good with locker. And Dan, you and I at policy committee, are you still the same place we both thought in the locker was? No, I think that the locker is the the right solution. I think that obviously kids will find ways to put them in pockets or handbags or whatever. >> Um, >> but that to me using that as an excuse to not pass the policy that kids are going to find ways around it is an argument for anarchy. that like laws work, policies work. And I think what we're doing is we're making a statement that there's values embedded in this policy. And one of those values is education requires focused time and and to do that you need to remove distraction. >> Okay. I agree. >> And and

062so I think that that's what this policy is trying to do. >> Agreed, Greg. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I agree. I'm I'm good with them being a locker locker. Tammy, >> I'm good with locker. Um for phones. I'm still thinking about my position on the the watches. >> So, I think we probably should talk about the watches cuz that is something in here. Where are we on the um smart watches? I mean, I think I'm fine with them being on as long as they're not being I mean, you're looking at checking your heart rate or your the time. Beyond that, I think it's a privilege situation. The first time someone gets caught texting on their or checking the internet on their phone, >> I don't have one. um then it should be I think

063they should lose the privilege for the year like I mean needs to be extreme like you get one chance technically >> and I think that that's when we talked about this in policy committee Tim you said it was you know we're going to allow the smart watches if they're don't have cellular capability. >> Yeah that was the initial >> yeah language that the high school folks and I kind of came up with is you know if they didn't have cellular capability >> if they didn't so >> yeah but the tell that And that goes back to that is it is it a disruption? Are they are they on it during class? And then that's where texting on a watch is really cumbersome. And the reason why I'm guessing not if you're 15 Listen, it's cumbersome

064for me to text on this. I got to keep going backwards, but >> it's still not as convenient as a phone. And so I'm going to guess >> you probably currently aren't have and and this is an assumption. Yeah, they said that. But I'm guessing you're not having a a ton of problems with people texting on watches because those are the kids that are using their phones. So I think you're right. There are there will be some people that are migrate >> to their watches that are not using them now. But it's it's very easy to to see if somebody's on >> say that's going to be a lot more obvious because someone's trying to text their watch as opposed to a phone. >> Yeah, >> I think so. I mean, you can do a

065audio, which is the thing that's going to >> And I think the easiest >> and I and I don't know what you could say this. I mean, I heard you, Casey, and and I and by the way, I tend to agree with you like watches gone, you know, the have and have nots cuz, you know, some families are going to be able to say, "I'm going to buy you a watch and others can't." But I also think like this is a big change and I think where I'm sort of falling is like in the middle like okay let's leave it how okay with you know watch but if you get caught and if we find if you find like after this year it's a big issue we can revisit it and say okay the watch

066it's out of control like now that's your new problem and then maybe we you know we make adjustments from there. >> Yeah. I mean they're still not supposed to be used correct >> but neither are phones in class. Do we have to make revisions to the definition of a personal communication device? Because the way I read it right now, watches and phones are the same thing, right? >> So phones have So if a personal communication device has to be in a locker, that means a watch, too. >> No, I think it's specified in here. It's we didn't take out watch like I think it was specified. Change it. >> Yeah. Like where where >> so it's just under the definition of personal communication, >> right? Um, >> so if if the policy is going to

067be personal comm personal communication devices need to be in lockers right now that includes watches, >> right? Correct. >> So I guess that's my point is a sentence that says >> students can wear watches provided that they're not using them as personal communication devices or something. >> Right. So we modify it in that fashion. If >> I could just interject for >> Yes, please do. I know that uh one of the things you know that ML was kind of concerned about is is kind of the the the management the adaptation of things that are going on and the exceptions the notes that we would be getting. I would caution us a little bit because if we start carving out things now, it's going to lead us to now a different exception and a different one

068and a Fitbit, a this a whatever new thing they come up with and it may be easier for us to start bold and then roll it back if we think I mean if you've got kids that suddenly now need to monitor their biometrics or something like that because of the watch. So they need the watch. It's a lot easier, I think, to apply it broadly speaking to start and then carve out the exceptions without starting with the exceptions. >> So, you're asking us to leave smartwatch as a personal communication device and they need to be in the locker. >> I think so because it is going to be because by carving out the exception, you're now paving a way for exceptions rather than saying electronic communication devices and everything under that umbrella. But if we

069have a policy, but you've already said you're not going to take make kids take their watches off. So if we have a policy that you're already planning on not enforcing, how is that? >> Well, once again, I mean, this goes back to policy and the rule of the law and your execution of it. We all as parents come up with a broad rule for what's going to happen, what we're going to be doing, what are the consequences going to be. But periodically though, we've got to readjust that based on how the circumstances roll out. >> But with all due respect, our policy has always been don't use your phone during class and you're telling us you need a stronger one so that kids can't teachers don't have to enforce that. And so I I guess

070I don't understand either we say no smartwatches. I mean, I get what you're saying. You want us to just pass a law and then you guys enforce it. a great example, Kim. What I would see what I would say in response to that is is that yes, we've said you can't use your phones, but the intent behind that rule has been that we don't want the disruption. So, if I've got kids, for example, that are doing photojournalism and they're using their phones to take pictures as a part of that assignment, that's not a disruption. And thus, we've allowed that to happen because we have the policy in place, but the intent is what matters. So if I if I'm correct, what I hear you saying is you want us to leave the smartwatches as part

071of the personal the definition of personal communication devices. Ban them like they should be in the locker. But your application of that is going to be like, you know, I have a watch on. You're not going to come and check and see it. But if you see me on it, you're going to be like, you're violating the policy. Put it in the locker. Correct. >> But otherwise, you're just going to leave it alone. Is that what I hear you saying? same way that we would assume that if we set up the policy that all the phones are in the lockers >> that they're in the lockers. Now, does that mean that I'm going to be looking at kids pockets? >> No. >> But if you see me, >> but if I see with it, then

072yes, I'm going to have to intercede. >> And I think what I hear you saying another way of putting it is we're really looking at behavior, not the device. If someone uses, we know that we are saying no cell phones and we see someone walking down the hall doing their cell phone or we hear a buzz in the classroom and and then they go to their watch to respond. That's the behavior responding to the watch is what I hear you saying. And the consequence to what you were saying, Mr. zero off earlier is if we see that smartwatch becoming a distraction to instruction then we would administer like hey you do I see you doing something with stop it that's the first one the second time now it's a problem because you're now insubordinate of

073the policy >> correct >> however if we're using it to track our steps or I'm using it for um to tell me to stand up or my activity levels or whatever but I'm just tapping it to make a stop and go away. I'm still paying attention, but it's different than going I will see you. Wait, I will see you later or whatever or Okay, that's what is that more clear? >> Yes. >> I guess I'm not entirely comfortable with the concept of passing a policy that we don't think is going to be enforced. I mean like >> I you know we write these spend a lot of time reading these writing these going through these having these meetings and I my expectation is if we pass a policy it's enforced. >> I think it's inaccurate

074to say that it wouldn't be quote unquote enforced. What we're talking about though is working with human beings and it's an imperfect science. >> We come up with rules, we come up with policies to Dr. Bowden's point, you know, we come up with these things and we then we try and execute them with fidelity, but at the end of the day, we're dealing with human beings as well. >> Well, and I think you need the discretion, and I think that's what you're asking for, but to Tammy's point, we need to write a clear policy so that parents and students know what the rules are. And I think that we can find language that is both clear but also provides enough discretion so that we don't have to look at people's cell phone bills when they

075walk in the door and say, "Is that a watch that has, you know, can make a phone call or is that just a Fitbit or whatever?" Right? And I and I >> and I think this was something I was going to raise. We hadn't even gotten this far, but I had some drafting concerns about the policy. And one of them is that the the legislation actually requires us to specify um the disciplinary the consequences it and our current version doesn't do that because I think um it was Dr. Mley's intent or the policies committee's intent to refer to a general what progressive disciplinary process but I think we actually have to specify it in the policy. So, we need to say what happens when there are violations. And um and I guess I wanted some

076input on what that should be, but also I'm concerned about selective enforcement. Um if it's more of a when we view it as an issue, that's when enforcement begins. >> And that is a good point. When we met with the policy committee, I I totally owned this because historically we do not put consequences in board policy. It's part of our code of conduct, our handbook um for things such as if you're late to class or for fighting. There's some other areas even we have trans we have discretion over. But this law by the statute, thank you Tammy for providing it specifically says the policy shall does not say may specify any disciplinary measures that will be taken for violations of this prohibition and that's unusual language because that's typically what a code of conduct is.

077>> But does the Neola policy have it in here? >> Can we just can we just refer back to the code of conded and we strugg through it where it talks about >> um I'm sorry I didn't mean to ignore you. I'm trying to answer too many questions, but the draft policy does say, for example, um suggestions for >> I think it's on page two, it talks about a verbal warning and require the student to store it in accordance with the policy, confiscate the PCD, um and have it take it back to the locker. I mean, it's progressive. I I have the consequences that the high school administration shared with me that would be added to the handbook. It could be simply added to the policy as well. >> And what would that be? >>

078Uh it's from offense 1 through five. First offense, electronic device confiscated and warning. Second offense, confiscated, level one, detention, parent guardian notified. Third offense, two-hour detention, parent guardian notified. Fourth offense, these are all being confiscated. Level three detention, which is 3 hours, parent being notified. fifth offense and beyond progressive discipline which may include out of school suspension that becomes a failure to comply piece. Can can the policy just refer back to the handbook saying you know consequences will be as it has to be put in >> that's why it's so unusual usually in our code of conduct it's never in board policy >> and I also kind of want to go back to the to you know the definition of the policy I you know I understand what everybody's saying but I my opinion is

079they can't force something that's not a policy so like if we keep the if we keep the smart watches in there then yes they might not go to every single student say take that watch off take that watch off. But if a student is misusing it and causing a disruption, then they have the policy to fall back on to say, "Okay, now we can we have enforcement." If it's not in there, then they can't do that. >> The current the current policy already says that they can't use smart watches during class. >> I'm going to have to think about that one. >> The smart watches, >> I mean, is that something that's being enforced at the schools right now if it's in our current policy? When you say enforced, are you saying I guess let

080me clarify your question? When you say enforced, are you playing out a scenario in which a kid comes walking in like Mr. Zup has a smartwatch right now, comes into a classroom that an adult intercedes and says that is a smartwatch. You need to get it out of here. >> My thought, >> are you saying that >> if a kid's sitting here doing this during class, then then it's being forced? >> Then yes, it would be at risk. >> Okay. >> Because it would be a disruption. It would it would be a distraction. Yeah, >> it would interfere with the progression of instruction. >> Yeah. And I go back to your, you know, I think you made a made a example about speed limits. Like if someone's driving 5 miles over the speed limit, a

081police officer is not going to pull them over. If someone's driving 20 m hour over the speed limit, they're probably going to get pulled over. So it's it's when it gets excessive and gets to be a big problem is when things But if we don't have the rule, we can't force it. But we already do. So yeah. And I think the concern is once cell phones are placed in lockers, will that behavior of using more watches replaced because they don't have the cell phone? You've removed the cell phone, it's in the locker, now you're going to see more watches are potentially doing this and they want to have the opportunity to address if this becomes a distraction because it'll be a replacement technology. >> And I think they should have the ability to enforce that.

082>> I I know in conversation with our legal and I think it goes back to what Dr. then says, you know, teachers are the ones who have to they have to be the bad guys of with any policy or spec specifically this one in classrooms. Teachers unions are really really in in the state of Ohio based on this new law are really in support of the yonder bags. I'm not recommending yonder bags for numerous reasons. The first probably just being the the fiscal responsibility it throws on the district. But as black and white as we can make this policy, going back to what we're all talking about, whether it be phones for sure it sounds like or or smart watches in a locker, it makes it more clear for those teachers specifically to handle, you

083know, the disciplinary issues and the consequences that take place. Um, you know, it just kind of goes back to what, like I said, what Casey said about the, you know, the teachers are the ones who are going to, you know, we're talking to administration about enforcing it. Sure, they can do it, but it it ultimately falls on those classroom teachers day in and day out coming in the rooms. And I just think it makes it it simplifies it for them if they're not supposed to be in there at all. So, I'm not sure that we have a consensus on the smartwatch, [Music] >> but we kind of have to figure out how to move forward so we can get to the second read. >> So, the proposal is whether we just keep smart watches bulked

084in with everything. And >> I mean, that seems to be the simplest. I'm I would be fine with just leaving it all as is in here. I don't know. Sammy, do you want to go to instructional day and come back to this? >> Uh, yeah. Can we? >> Okay, let's move to instructional day. Like, so and I think the proposal is you want us to see that as first bell to last bell, which would include lunch. And I will say in hallways, >> study halls that the cell phone, the personal communication device is in the locker. the locker's closed, you can get it out at the end. Understanding they might check it in between classes to get their remind or whatever. Um, and I I will say you raised like, you know, cuz I was

085really kind of like I don't care if they have it at lunch, like that's their time. But you did raise a good point like lunch and then do we have to define where is lunch? You could only have it if you're in lunch in the cafeteria but not in the band room or the choir room or the you know wherever. So, so I think like that's the next question like are we and I think it what it really comes down to is lunch time in hallways. Where are we on that Greg? >> I mean for me personally I wouldn't mind them having it lunch but I also don't want to make a nightmare of enforcement for the administration. So I'd probably lean towards tell the bell the bell. I mean, I'm kind of the same

086way. I kind of I I think where regardless of where lunch is, whether it's in the cafeteria or in the band room or the media center, wherever a kid's eating, I don't have a problem with a student checking their cell phones. But I'm hearing what I'm hearing and I get I don't know it it would it be it it goes to more than just kids being distracted from learning. It goes to the whole idea of the behavior issues and the I think what you're trying to accomplish, Casey, is to take that tool away as far as harassing and planning fights and >> vapes and >> Snapchatting. >> The distraction doesn't have to happen immediately. The distraction can be I'll see you fifth period, >> right? And then I just feel like there's 75% of the

087population suffering for and I shouldn't say suffer suffering >> doing without being punished. >> I I know. >> No, I get it. Like right >> my charge when I walked out of the house tonight from my child was fight the power mom. >> And yes, that was Claire. >> And did you say I am the power? >> I'm like I don't know what the power is. Thank you so much the meeting, Claire. >> And I think you know >> remember who the enemy is. >> Yeah. I think at policy committee >> Hunger Games >> when you're in the arena >> it was it was very Hunger Games. >> Yeah. Dan and I I think at the meeting we were at the policy committee meeting we both said okay bell to bell and then I sort

088of was wavering on that kind of like let him have it at lunch. But I think you you swayed me right back like I think those were very you know powerful. I mean, it was persuasive. Like, I I see what you're trying to do and I want to be supportive of that. >> And believe I don't want to come across as just I'm part of the community, too. I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm just trying to be realistic about the situations we're dealing with at the school. And this the bell to bell makes it the cleanest. But I totally get why we're vaccinating. I think this is something we we don't want to feature. We want to give our kids that that thing that they want. It's it's going to make it tougher.

089Mr. J and I have talked about this is the compromise or say whatever you want. This is like the one thing I guess we be okay with. It's just going to make it I think somebody used the word nightmare Mr. >> and I don't think we want to give you a nightmare. And I think I think it's safe to say that, you know, the board knows that you're that you and you know, Mark are being very thoughtful and you're trying to do what's best for all of your students in your buildings and your teachers and your staff. Like we know that like we get that, you know, even if we sometimes disagree with you, we do we do get that. >> Okay, Tammy. I'm I'm okay with covering bell to bell >> bell to bell.

090Okay. So then we're bell to bell in the lockers >> and we're I I agree with you like we believe the language is most simple to leave it like it is. Tammy, >> pardon me. On the >> on the watches. So my concern with the smart watches is the way it's being explained. you know, nothing's going to happen unless somebody's actually using it, which is kind of already the policy. But then I worry that, you know, some people are going to get enforced and some people aren't because, you know, not everybody gets caught and um I don't know >> you're not inaccurate that you're not just to go back to Mr. Speeding a lotment. I mean, her example, you know, I mean, the person ahead of me maybe gets caught or the person behind me

091maybe gets caught and I don't get caught or I get caught. And >> that's cuz you're not speeding, Mr. Pew. >> I know. I'm going to have to stop it. I mean, I got to slow it down. >> But you're not having them all put their lock watches in their lockers. I think you're saying so then basically it's the current policy and that's why I'm struggling with carving it out. >> I think that they're basically kind of saying that about phones, too. Like, they're not going to say, "I what's that square? Is that rectangle in your pocket?" But if it comes out, I mean, that's kind of what I hear you saying. Like, they're not going to walk around going, "What what is that?" >> But a watch is more visible. >> Yes. But they're

092saying because if the watch is monitoring your activity or whatever, it's if you're using it the same as if my my watch is up or my phone's in my pocket, if I pull it out now, I have a problem because now I'm blatantly violating. Right. Right. I mean, that's kind of what I'm hearing. and giving them that policy gives them the teeth that they don't have right now. >> But the ban is on possession. So possession of the >> the electronic device. So if you've got a phone in your pocket, that's obviously that's a violation. May or may not get detected. If somebody's wearing a watch, >> you're going to see it, you know. So it just seems like it opens up more possibility for >> so so >> in selective enforcement. So, do we

093say smartwatch in the locker? Can't have it. I mean, >> I don't like doing that to kids. So, >> that would be Yeah. And I know you're struggling with that. That's why >> my daughter doesn't have a smartwatch just to be she might ask for one for Christmas after this. >> Listen, I think I think they'd be very happy with us if we said smart watches, >> all you know, personal communication devices in the locker. And I'm comfortable with doing that because I agree with you. Um I mean I don't see the difference if I see it like you have it and you're violating the policy. >> Yeah. >> So all PCDs in the locker you cannot be wearing it. >> You want to come back to you on that too? >> I mean I'm

094okay with that if that's if that's what's going to happen. If if that's actually what's going to happen though >> and that's what we would do >> because I guess that's what we're saying to you. like if we pass a policy >> that's what the we do in the first week of school and I think they do it in South as well we have class meetings with all of our classes freshman meetings sophomore meeting etc etc and that would be part of the discussion >> that we look at this policy and say this is what the expectation >> and here's what happens if we see you with a smartwatch on >> process this is what's going to happen and a lot of that is what we do every day right it's it's having conversations with

095kids explaining them what the expectations are, what the what the consequences will be, and then following through when they're violated. >> Right. Kim's going to be in a lot of trouble when she gets home. Got worse. I'm just going to say I got outvoted. >> I I don't I don't like I I understand the I think it's unrealistic. >> I do too. >> To ban smart watches. >> And I think that it's not I I think it goes beyond the intent of the legislation. >> It does. And I don't think that that's necessary. I in 2025, nobody's going to go buy a a G-Shock watch or a Swatch or a analog watch. My most my kids can't even read an analog clock. I know it's a failure of parenting. >> Um >> they they can.

096They just don't like it, >> right? Um, >> but and I mean that is and so like go go try and find a watch that's not doesn't have some smart compat capability. It's like using a computer program that doesn't have some form of AI like it's there. >> Yeah. >> Whether you want to admit it or not, it's there. And so I I just think >> I don't think we should touch smart watches until it be until we have to. I mean, I think that the original plan of not using them as personal communication devices, >> then if it becomes an issue >> and if we can't >> if we can't rein that in, then we adjust. But I I think >> you can always revisit. >> I think it's just too much to make

097kids take their watches off too, >> which is Yeah. >> Particularly as they're probably used to checking time on their phones as opposed to clock, >> right? That's going to be their only >> time So then we'll have to change this to say smart watches may be worn but not used. Something to that effect. >> I I think that we'll >> have to change definition too. >> I mean I I kind of understand the idea of just leaving it as is because as soon you know as soon as somebody starts using as a personal communication device it goes to a different level. We can say that I mean we can put in the policy that um they can't be uh what is it cell phone any what's the terminology >> what was the language you

098had Tim >> it's in the definition >> maybe the Bluetooth needs to be turned off >> the definition is it here >> cellular communication >> yes transmitting communication um it says a PCD is an electronic commu communication device powered by batteries or electricity that are capable of receiving giving transmitting or receiving and transmitting communication between individuals or groups that are not issued by the district for the purpose of instructions. Examples include computers, laptops, tablets, e-readers, cellular phones, smartphones, gaming devices, smartwatches, and other wearable technology and other web enabled devices used to communicate. And I think that language always already needs some tweaking because there's some students who use um computers who use their own Chromebooks for example and opt out of our Chromebook program and under that policy they're using your own computer would be

099banned. Um so there's already something we need to work with on that. Um, I mean I I don't necessarily think even if even if a smartwatch doesn't have its own account, it's not a separate >> cellular cellular capability. >> If you're close enough to your phone, >> it just it works. And I mean, I can get around my neighborhood and still it has a pretty good reach. I was very surprised by the reach it had. Um, and and so I think it'll vary to different degrees throughout the building and in Southview it may not work at all. I don't know. >> In the media center, >> I don't know. >> But I I I think trying to differentiate between whether or not it's got that separate cellular capability is just going to be a a

100nightmare. >> Yeah, that's very tricky. I I think that we be should be able to look at the language and try to carve out, you know, a a smartwatch becomes a personal communication device when you're using it to communicate, >> when you're using it for anything other than >> telling time, >> monitoring. I mean, your blood sugar, these things do a lot of things, heart rate, >> all that kind of stuff, >> health related, >> right? Right. So I >> if it becomes a disruption, even if you're checking your heart rate every every 10 seconds and f focusing on your on your watch instead of >> what the teacher's trying to >> communicate, that's a disruption. I mean, that's where it's addressed. >> Are they using it to communicate with each other or are they

101using it for other reasons? >> And that's when it's the behavior. >> Just look at the language and try to find some ways to capture that sentiment. one, it really is again it goes back to the behavior that's how the device is being used and you're giving a consequence for the behavior. If they're using it to text or using it to whatever, then it's different. But just to wear it and say you're monitoring your steps >> steps, yeah, >> it's monitoring. It's no more than a Fitbit, >> right? >> But you can also find people on it. So if I'm looking for my friend or whatever or see where I'm at that might that's a distraction in the class, then you should be focusing on the teacher. Okay. So we also need to revise which

102we spoke about in regards to school issue devices because we do have students who may bring their own MacBook, Airbook or what have you, iPad, we would need to make sure we change that language as well. >> And then we're adding the um >> MacBooks can get text >> the discipline. >> Yes. So, we'll drop that in. And what I will do, Tim and I can connect tomorrow along with Melissa and the principles to make sure it accurately reflects what we've heard. Just to review what I'm hearing right now is in our Sylvania schools, instructional day means first bell to last bell. >> Yes, sir. >> Um, currently they will not be able to use them in the lunchroom or during lunch periods or in the hallways, but we anticipate that in their they have

103five minutes between classes. four. Four. If they check it while it's in their locker in between classes and they have time to do that, that's fine. But >> we're we're not putting that in the policy though, right? >> No. Okay. >> This is just so how we keep in mind when we craft the language. We want to be clear what it is and what it isn't for my that's the way my brain works. Um right now smart watches I'm hearing do not monitor. We are not putting smart watches in lockers is what I last heard. Correct. >> Correct. But they should remain subject to the existing the existing policy which >> they cannot be used. >> Yeah. Can't be used. >> So possession of smartwatches is fine provided that they're not being used as a

104personal communication device. >> Yeah. [Music] >> Did we talk about um career tech students? How what are they going to do with their off-campus >> like traveling between buildings? You mean traveling between or going to the airport? >> Both. Actually, I had questions on both. >> All we have discussed so far is that we would have blockers here for the kids and over just default policy is >> okay because this is just it speaks to the instructional day. So, we probably need to spell something out that if they're off campus, it doesn't apply. or just not say that just say nothing. Yeah. >> So if you're interning at a law firm, you follow the rules of the law firm. >> We can't enforce this rule or >> because we can't enforce it. We won't know

105anyway. But >> well, if we're not requiring to keep the phone here when they go, >> well, I don't think >> Yeah, we wouldn't. >> Okay. >> We wouldn't. And I have more think time on that as well because we wouldn't know if they were using it during the school day if they're working in a law office or at Beller and Bench or any at a bank. We're not going to know if they're texting and it's their lunch period or not. We're not going to know. So, we won't be able to monitor that. So, thank you. >> You got anything else, Tammy? >> I'm checking. I had >> Yeah. >> I sent Veronica a long list earlier today, but she went through a lot of them with me already. >> Um, >> and currently, one

106of the questions you had, um, students are not permitted to carry backpacks during the school day, but they do have string bags, correct? >> Okay. That was when I was thinking about it in terms of whether they would have the phones on their permitted to have them on their person. And um backpacks seemed more secure. If if they were going to carry them on their person, having them zipped away in a backpack seems more secure than a cinch sack or something, but it doesn't matter now. >> Um >> between schools, what do they do? Students have like clear obligation. >> Do we know how other districts are interpreting the instructional day? I know that Casey, you did speak to some other districts and what they were doing. I know Rossford is going with yonder bags.

107>> Mommy has a policy like we're talking about like they're very similar from what I've gathered like they're working on the discipline including parents coming to pick up the phone which uh on like on like the fourth the fifth >> uh I believe Washington locals going that direction. >> Um >> the parent picking up the phone. No, sorry. Sorry. Like a below the bell band. >> Um, >> are they doing yonder bags also at Washington local? >> TPS is >> not last I knew. TPS and Roser I think were ones. I spoke to uh Harrisburg, Anthony Wayne, and Bowling Green who all indicated they were like holding back to wait to see definitions but possibly leaning towards like maintaining the current policy. and then maybe addressing it at January 1st. So that was two weeks

108ago when this first came across the desk. So I don't know if those districts have made progress since then or changed the course. >> They may be waiting a while. I I don't think there's a good definition of it anywhere >> specifically. Uh Anthony Wayne, I think both said what you said. There's no definition of instructional day. >> And it's interesting because the legislation also uses the term school day in the same >> Sure does. >> Same bill. They're so great. >> They literally >> Yeah. Okay. Does anybody have anything else? >> Um I go ahead. >> Oh, okay. A quick question. Just one. So I it says the first paragraph we are we had double negative we are not prohibiting them during school related events and functions like sporting events after school right we're

109not prohibiting them during that >> instructional day >> but then later um there's that list ABCD E letter E it says it says we're specifically allowing it so like do we need to say we're specifically allowing it if we're not prohibiting it? It just seemed weird to me. Well, E I think um >> it says as authorized by >> I think that parentheses in E the EG after school activities extracurricular activities should be removed because we're already not covering after school activities and extracurricular activities and I think E just allows if a teacher should want to permit students to use phones for a specific purpose >> or a field trip or something during the instructional day >> during school related events. Okay. >> Yeah. So, it was I think that was covering >> So, does

110that mean I know the answer is no, but I'm just playing devil's advocate. Could someone say, "Well, you're at a soccer game." A teacher didn't specifically say you could use this, so you can't. >> No, that's for school. So, okay. instruction. >> So this so this would be a school related event in between >> a field trip or yeah something like that or you're in class and the teacher's like hey we're going to do I don't know what those little surveys are >> e may have been intended to be an option if after school >> school related functions were not chosen as an option >> they can't do >> like if we were going to prohibit school I don't I guess my point is I don't know that he needs to be there >> I

111don't think it does either So >> I but I would like it would be nice to have something in here that says that we can um >> supervised Tammy I think you said as authorized by a supervising adult during school related events and functions during the instructional >> during the instructional day or it could just say during the instructional day. We don't even need the during school related as authorized supervising adult during the instructional day. So change it like that's a good I think that would make sense. That's a good >> I like that. That's all I have. >> And then there's another reference to ex extracurricular >> or school event at the bottom of the second page. >> What's going to stop the teacher then? I guess my concern with that is does the

112statute allow that? Because what's going to stop a teacher from saying, "I'm the cool kid and I'm going to let you guys use we're have we have downtime today. I'm going to let you use your cell phone." Here >> it says um let's see there was something in here about >> those two people sitting down back there. >> You mean like during class? >> Yeah. If we just say as authorized by a supervising adult, that means a teacher has the discretion to say you can bring your phones to class tomorrow and use them. >> I mean, and do you want that discretion? Do you want them to have discretion? Because I think what we shared, correct me if I'm wrong, that at this point, anything a student can do on a phone per se, they

113can do it on schoolisssued Chromebook. >> So if you can do a cahoot on a phone book, you don't need your phone. >> So if we want to carve out an exception for a field trip, for example, can you keep E and then EG, >> write field trip? >> Why do we want to do that though? What's the point of >> So just take it out. I'm letting them have a phone on a field trip. >> If I'm at Fossil Park and I uncover cool little fossil and I'm going to take a I know, wrong grade level, but um I'm going to uh the zoo and I >> do high schoolers take field trips. Is that happening? >> Yeah, they do. >> Here's a perfect example that would apply to this. Our art our kids

114go to the museum, the Toledo Art Museum. >> Okay. >> And then they do all sorts of projects here. If I were a teacher, I could potentially sit there and say, "I want you to photograph XYZ on the field trip and then upload it to your Google Drive." You could do that now, but we're talking about a situation that I don't from a policy standpoint, I think it just depends on whether or not we want to go into such depth with this. Um, there are things that we allow. For example, if we're doing a pep assembly and my StuCo president wants to do a playlist that plugs into our system and it's attached to their phone, as an admin, we'd say, "Okay, plug it in and and play your set list." I think it just

115depends on how far you want to go down the rabbit hole of specificity. So what you're saying is that we should keep this as authorized by a supervising adult during school related events and functions and then you'll deal with the teacher who >> yeah I I would say the opposite. I think we take it out and then the teacher could get permission to do that if they wanted >> but then they're violating board policy. So then would we indicate then would we go with letter A and when we say when the teacher or authorized supervising adult authorizes a student to use PCD for instructional purposes during instructional >> I I don't think we checked any of these. We did not >> we didn't there's none of these that need to be in here. >> Yeah,

116you're right. So, but but rereading it now, I don't think we need to check any of them. If it's during the instructional school day, we are now going to tell students that phones need to be off and in a locker there. There shouldn't really be any exceptions to that. >> Well, but like if he wants to let >> you take them on a field trip during the instructional school day, if they're going to the art museum, >> it would be during the instructional day. Yeah, >> but it's rare. >> But but we would allow students to take them on that field trip. >> Not necessarily. I mean, we that Can this new policy if they were coming back to the building they'd stay >> presumably? >> What are your thoughts? >> I mean I like

117I mean >> what you said about during the supervising adult >> Yeah. >> during the instructional place. I think it gives a little leeway, but still stops the other thing, but doesn't make it so that they're violating a policy if we don't have that little >> just gives a little flexibility. >> I like the flexibility. So, I mean, I'm really comfortable with that. >> So, we're keeping Erove, >> but but edit the EG. I think just take those out. took those four examples and just >> as authorized by a supervising adult >> or like what Mark just said superi the princ building principal as authorized by the building principal >> I like I like that better >> you guys look at the >> I mean anybody in that building is a supervising adult >> yeah

118right >> if you put the building principal then if that art teacher is taking kids >> then he can approve it thank you >> I like that >> and that takes >> so building principal or >> building administrator in case you're not there. >> Which one do you want? Building principal. >> Building administrator works. >> Building administrator. Okay. >> Hope so. >> Yep. >> Hope. I need >> Where did you say to look next, Sammy? >> Um at the bottom of the second page, there's a paragraph that starts with when the use of or possession of PC D. where >> um the bottom of the second page there's another reference to extracurricular events um bottom >> right here in green. Okay, >> since we're not covering extracurricular events and wondering if we can work with

119that language. >> Yeah, makes sense. [Music] the last line in the green. >> Oh, and it actually says yeah, adult supervising extracurriculars. And you would suggest what again? >> I would just take out that um >> Yeah, >> I would just take out the word um >> Why does it say extracurricular there? Well, we could just change it to mimic the same language we just discussed or as >> permitted by an administrator at a school event or something like that. >> Starting with adult supervising, just change that to what we were just discussing. >> Adult supervising. >> I think we should take extracurricular or school event out >> because we're not prohibiting them during those events. >> Yep. Right. >> Right. >> So, just take it out of there. >> I I agree. >> It's

120fine. >> Yeah. Just crank it right from there. or sponsor. Take that out, too. I don't know where that >> Yeah, I don't What's a sponsor? I don't know. So, take out sponsor. Supervising adult. Okay. >> Um, >> do elementary kids tend to have phones? [Music] >> Some of them do. >> Fifth graders, >> we have to talk about release time for religious instruction and forms >> under that policy. >> Yeah. wrap this one up first. >> Actually, this one would cover that, wouldn't they? >> Yeah, it would because they're being released during the instructional day. >> And so, no, I don't think they're taking their phones. >> So, they would not be taking their phones. >> Take their phones. >> Okay. >> unless the building principal approves it. [Music] >> Um, That whole thing

121makes me so mad. I can't think of them. >> I think I may have exhausted all my questions. >> Yeah. Okay. Does anybody have anything else? >> All right. Well, >> we see this in a pretty version for this. >> We will get it. Yes, she's going to get it to us in a pretty version before the next board meeting second. This will be a priority on the list tomorrow. I I'd like to thank you for coming >> and answering all our questions and being patient with us and being here on a Monday night and we really appreciate your input. So, thank you. >> Being honest and listening. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, we appreciate it. So, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay, second. Second opportunity for public participation. Seeing none, I move that

122we adjourn. >> Second, >> Adam. >> I. >> Julie, >> yes. Uh, Greg, >> yes. >> Kevin, >> hi. >> Terry, >> yes. [Music]