July 11, 2020 Newberg School Board Retreat

001not that I need to call to order a border tree but it's officially started there we go there we go so as the board knows the public might not know this but we had a bit of a change in our agenda originally we had planned to have a two-hour training with Juliet's house um around mandated reporting and what that meant but with all things coven Juliet's house had not performed that training yet virtually and as it got a bit closer they recognized that they didn't feel um prepared and ready for that so um I said no problem we can do that another time and this gives us more time to discuss our goals and anything else so I know that there were some um sort of requests to change the agenda to have and sort

002of open dialogue regarding the events of the last week and I don't know if anybody's interested in that but if they are I would certainly entertain a motion yeah we if we're going to change agenda we have to do it by majority vote so I move that we uh add to the agenda discussion of the events of the past week second okay is there any discussion around that motion all right all those in favor please raise your hand and all those opposed oh Rebecca I couldn't see if you had your hand is that a yes or no a yes okay it's unanimous thank you okay well then let's move into that if anybody has the reason I made that motion is that I think some events occurred that we probably need to discuss uh um

003some of the we could have some discussion about the merits of the uh of the resolution which we all don't agree on necessarily um uh but the key thing for me was to make sure that we were still in a position as a board to work together as a team on the topics that we have to deal with um and there's been a couple of things in there that look like there might be stresses about that and so I'm that's where I'd like to start but anybody could start anywhere they'd like as a diplomatic way to put that Ron that there are some stresses I I guess my view at this point is um Brandi those emails that you sent out about us were completely um out of order completely out of the spirit of

004the job of the board chair and frankly racist you you basically said our ideas can't be right because we're just too angry white men defending our privilege that is a very convenient way to dismiss our ideas and not have to take them seriously not have to interact with them intellectually at all it's very convenient it's it's uh very nice for you to be able to do that I'm I I wish I had such a luxury and honestly someone who's willing to be racist against two of their fellow board members I don't think you should be on the board anymore Brandi I think you should resign your seat I really do okay uh so what I'm hearing you say about that is that you felt her actions were out of line and also that they exhibit

005the racism that we're trying to stop with the resolution yes um okay and your email uh Brian you said something about the board agreement is there some particular way that you thought that uh that those emails violated that board um super the support superintendent working agreement well the the yes I mean first of all how about no surprises how about I'm going to email your constituents and I'm going to accuse you of being too angry white men who are trying to approve a system of privilege and I'm not going to give you up I'm going to do I'm going to send it out and you're you know wait till you see the email in your inbox it's outside the spirit no surprises how about the idea that the the board speaks with one voice it's

006not Brandi penner's voice Randy you are not the voice of the board okay at this point you're yelling at her I don't think that's going to help us well the content of what you're saying is that the um is that there was no that violated the commitment we've made the no surprises and I got that part uh from the board agreement and that uh and you repeated the argument that it was a fair call you racist uh in that situation I might have missed something there because you broke up a little bit um I I don't know where where you left off at yeah I'm sorry I'll jump in there a little bit too I uh you know for this whole first year being on the board um this has definitely been the you know

007the toughest challenge we've had and uh I I just was speechless when I read Brandy what you put in there I was I mean there's many times in here where I've came away from board meetings going you know I don't like what we're doing but you know we talked about trying to to stay together as much as possible and uh I think the leadership through this is just been weak and uh I like you personally you know I have nothing against you we've chatted and everything but I I was just taking it back so far by that and I the very thing that we're talking about whether we agree or not and obviously we don't agree all of us on what the the the the whole resolution's about but we've totally lost our way as

008a board when it fundamentally comes to being able to listen to each other and and that went so far past anything that's healthy that I can't see you staying on his board chair you know you're having a breakup problem too I I hear him just fine Ron you might want to maybe try again it might be mine yeah let me see if I can get on different I'll try different try on my phone go ahead I just think we've we've we've gone way past uh we you know obviously a very difficult time in our country and it's a difficult issue and and it's it's okay to disagree but it's not okay to have character attacks it's not okay to um you know when our constituents call in they can be emotional but on the board

009we've talked about that where we can't do that and um I mean I disagree I think emotions show the Real the true feelings of what is behind all the work all the work for what and she attacked two board members and I've had plenty of opportunities where if I'm gonna put my my emotions out there I could have done the same thing with everybody on the board this this District staff everything but you you have to check that in we can't if we let this go if we if we go down this path we're going to lose we're going to be right where uh Portland's at and where the world's at on this thing it's out of control and this we are at that point it is out of control that was a board we

010cannot be that way as a school board you cannot put personal attacks James Dave you started it by by neglecting to notify this the board of what your statement was and what your problem was with the resolution and by presenting I still don't understand what you have against the resolution I reread it today and there's nothing that states anything about black lives matter organization that whole um statement had nothing to do with new with the resolution from Newburgh School District what do you have against that resolution the wording and the theme of that comes right out of osba Rebecca and when that that osba and the USB color caucus stated in their resolutions that they are in solidarity with the black lives matter movement completely we didn't see that our words and you never brought

011it up to any board member beef prior to the you never brought it up to to Dr Morlock you never brought it up to Brandy that you had questions about this and you refuse to communicate with the board prior to the Thursday night meeting that's not true I I had Joe talked to Brandy emailed back and forth I talked to everybody did you never sent us a copy of your statement which you were going to give out on Thursday night that was the first time I heard about heard it and I have written to you twice about it asking you to please share what what you said there wasn't any action items you didn't present any suggestions I put that out to Joe on Wednesday when he said we could put that out in an

012email and then he came back and said no we cannot do that but he asked you if every time I tried to talk to somebody a couple of our constituents two times I got ahead went mistakenly got on email trying to talk to those people and both times got taken out at the knees there is no way I'm going on Facebook put nothing out there and with you do you think the support was really healthy from our school board back towards that the best way to present that was to read it and our next meeting wasn't to the Tuesday coming up it was Thursday because the special meeting why didn't you send it to us before the meeting last as Brian had asked on Thursday morning he said because due to the no surprise clause

013in our superintendent board agreement and Joe asked you if we if he could share it with the rest of us and you never responded I did respond to Joe I told him no why we we deserve to have a chance to read it prior to what what you stated what because we're an open board if I have questions with with some things that that I read in the agenda packet eye contact Joe eye contact Brandy you know what I got from you Rebecca and other board members I cannot believe you voted no against this that's all I heard is I cannot believe I did not say that I said I missed your voice I said you needed to you never contacted Joe ahead of time or brandy ahead of time that you had problems with

014the resolution why did why didn't you do that if we if you had contacted them to begin with they would have known you had something to share and we could have discussed it but you neglected to do that hold on Rebecca to be fair that would be a violation of the open meeting no no we're not supposed to deliver in private we're not supposed to be delivering among ourselves when the public isn't looking no but that's not you can ask a question but they I think the rules are are flawed and make it really hard for us to do our job but he was following the law there so it's okay for Dave to not release his set that I didn't send you email prior to sending out to constituents I just want to clear

015that up yeah let's talk to our character completely different things I will let you know this Dave and Brian I'm speaking straight from my heart on this I in no way intended to attack your character what I did not like and I clearly stated this in the email was I strongly disagree with your statements on Thursday night I do not attack your character I'm sorry if you felt that I was doing that that was certainly not my intention when I did want to be very clear was that I was incredibly upset with the comments from both of you on Thursday night and that is it really I mean I'm they're completely inappropriate I'm just they're inappropriate I think the community would think they're inappropriate well I think years were inappropriate as well and it's just

016goes to say that we will always disagree on this and maybe it's time that we agree to disagree because we're not going to agree that yours were not inappropriate because I think that they were especially if they sent somebody into a panic attack so harsh that they could no longer um be doing their public comment let's focus on that in us for a minute we're talking about an 18 year old young man who go back and find what I said in my statement that would put him into a panic attack where did I attack where did I attack him all of it I was going into a little bit of a panic attack are you kidding me really I actually was not surprised that you voted no and I I was surprised that Brian voted

017Yes actually Oh I thought it was going to be because because you have attributed certain qualities to me based on what based on my experience on this board with you that is what I think Brian I think Brian's comments I reread them today and and they were disgusting I don't think Brian is disgusting but his comments about bringing up the mob and the KKK and like that was so inappropriate and so um explosive and and I would ask you to reap to to apologize at the next meeting I don't believe I have anything to apologize for uh so first of all no excuse me no racial group owns uh condemnation of the KKK the KKK was a horrifying thing and the fact is people were insinuating uh about Dave Brown he was a racist based

018on one data point his vote before they had heard a statement the people who came in there most of them read the same statement they had before he gave his reasons which tells me that they're not really engaging with his ideas they're out to drive him from office because he he had wrong thinking one time in one vote and I am going to stand against the mob and that is what we've been seeing is a mob a mob mentality that's what I that appears to be what the new political system is is people getting mad getting each other worked up on Facebook and then going and attacking people and I refuse to just sit by and watch it because I think it's evil and I think it leads us as a society to a very

019dark place doing it have good intentions well I think your intentions might be good but your your delivery and your your presence brings out anger and if someone is already been threatened by a mob or has that connotation it it's just not sensitive to the students who are there or to to our constituents of color I just want to step in just for a moment and just remind folks something that I've said as difficult as these conversations are you know I think it's good that we're having them and I just want to remind us that something I've said to several of you is that you know this is the easy part this is the easy part of dealing with our uh achievement Gap this is the this is the easy part of dealing with the

020inequalities that we're grappling with um you know I've heard everybody on the board say that they want to work towards increasing equality in our district and right now this part of it we're just talking you know we haven't actually asked anybody to do anything different we we passed a proclamation six to one and we're having a a very emotional discussion about that the wording of that what that really means to some folks you know I think I look around the board and I hear some of the comments that I've I've heard in the community and wow everybody feels like they're hearing a dog whistle I shouldn't say everybody many folks feel like they're hearing a dog whistle some folks feel like uh you know I hear when I hear Dave talk about leninism Marxism you

021know to me that sounds like a dog whistle to the Civil Rights era of the 1950s when Dr Martin Luther King Jr here was accused of being a communist it was it was a tactic that was used so that that stirs up emotions in me and I need to really work hard to separate those emotions with what's really happening and what's really going to be effective and I just want to remind everybody that it's good to take a deep breath and you know I don't like I don't like listening Brian I don't like listening to you yelling and raising your voice at another board member Rebecca the same thing I'll share with everybody that you know I wrote I called Brandy last night and I spoke with her about the email that went out and

022I said that you know expressing yourself as an individual and as an individual board member you present yourself one way and when you present yourself as when you're speaking as the board chair you speak another way now I I feel like that message that she sent out was not something that the whole board would have approved I see that as you know a learning opportunity and something to to work on when I hear folks start calling for stepping off the board that's to me that's above and beyond the that's an overreaction to what happened I certainly understand having strong feelings strong opinions but I don't look around and see a single board member who has done something to be removed from the board and I would encourage folks to think about six months from now

023and whatever it is in your mind right now that you want the Newberg School Board to be accomplishing six months from now start laying the groundwork for us in this meeting right here and yelling at each other and accusing each other of horrible evil things is not going to get anything done six months from now thank you Bob I would add to that is it can people hear me now yes I would add to that that um each of the several of us have complained about people attributing motives to us but most of us have gone ahead and attributed motives to other people have talked over their attempts to explain them and we have to be a team we have to be able to disagree disagreement is part of what's the valuable resource on this

024board this is a better board than any board I've been on because of the diversity of opinion on it we have to be able to manage that diversity of opinion in a way that's constructive Dave does not have to agree with the board resolution Dave can't undermine it if he's undermining it then he's not agreeing to them he's not abiding by the board agreement he's that agreement is once we've decided on something we all try to make it happen because it's the action on the board I don't know that Dave is undermining it I haven't seen what he's doing Dave Dave's free to vote against it so it's five to one or if I'd been there six to one uh at that point he's still a member of this team he still has been elected

025to this board as much as anybody this is the first time in my time on the board that the whole board got there by being elected or have at least has run through an election so all of us have been elected every one of us has the same right to be on the board every one of us preluminantly is representing some wedge of the community's opinion and none of us have the right to silence the community and so we don't have the right to silence each other and ask you not to come so that you so that that way to the community is on on represented I don't think we perfectly represent our community that's the imperfection imperfections of our system one of them but that's the case for each of us here foreign I

026think it's fully right for everybody to to point to the individual things or what they disagree those are disagreements that's at one level the attribution of motives and also the recognition that each of us is going to interpret things out of our own experience and probably the other person didn't mean that does not excuse the other person about their about their communication I tell my boys you are responsible not only for what you think you mean but also for how the other people see you your meaning because you can't they they you have to anticipate that and that's got to be the truth for all of us too I'm um I want to say something about Brandi's situation um I talked to Brandy this morning as well and um she uh one of the things

027I said at that time was that one of the reasons I haven't been eager to be a chair even when I've been here for eight years is that at various times just as a board member I've said things in board meetings that I found out later uh were interpreted and what I would consider to be horrifying ways that I never intended this is not confined to my board meeting experience I'm capable of this all the time this is a flaw I have and it's still one of my flaws so I'm not accusing you of anything that is uh attributable to me as well so I guess the question is I'm similar to Bob's question uh how can we as a board figure out a way to operate as a team even though we all we

028disagree how can we as a board continue forward knowing that we disagree I would like to add something there I appreciate that Bob and Ron you know comment it down um you know going back to sports is what I've done my whole life um exactly what you guys you know just both said as a key element to calming it down when you're in the heat of the battle has to happen every time for success to happen so I appreciate what you guys said I know from my angle you know for everybody that's listening right now that you know being attacked um like this is uh it's been hard um but I expected it the one thing that uh you know I would add to what Bob and Ron just said too is the the ability

029to disagree and still move through something you know like Bob said is is so important and one thing I've noticed here uh and it's happening all over but it's definitely happened to me is that if you don't agree with somebody then you're wrong in this case you're racist that is so untrue and um it's it's something that is Bored we're going to have to to come to grips with here because this is a this is a big deal and uh you know I could sit back here for two hours and bore you guys to death with stories of my upbringing around different kinds of people and you would just some of you would just shake your head and say ah it doesn't mean anything others might say oh okay I didn't know that but until

030we each one of us sit back and and and uh you know not make that decision based on the fact that if you disagree with people right now in this this political climate you're attacked and I'm not trying to defend this to balance out the scales at all um I'm encouraged big time because I asked you guys six seven months ago clear back in the fall when we were meeting in person that it's okay to argue it's okay sometimes to get into a battle we never had any big battles we're just talking about the normal school district stuff and I'd get all excited and then Bob Bob would set me down and say Dave you know this is what we do you know it's not going to be a thousand miles an hour it's just

031one day at a time and I appreciate that Bob I've gone back to that many times to get myself through another meeting when we I don't feel like we're getting a lot done but the very fact that when we stand for the Pledge of Allegiance for an example and some of us put our hand or heart some of us don't some of us pledge the allegiance and some of us don't um we can disagree on on things that are really important to us and that doesn't mean we're we're something that the other person's perceiving and I think that's the dangerous slope I've seen through this whole last couple weeks as we've gone through this is that uh you know we have to be able to keep the dialogue going that's why we're supposed to be

032on the board this thing got passed and I strongly disagree with it but it did get passed and um people were mad at me and I had so many comments that were like why can't you vote no why can't you disagree you know and then I had you know one of the people that called in brandy you you respond to him why doesn't everybody have to explain their yes vote and that's my point we're in that that thing right now where don't agree with it uh everybody everybody's jumping on the bandwagon just a just to immediately go into racist and and hate-filled speech that is exactly the opposite of what this resolution should have intended one thing that makes me think about Dave is two things one is kind of a bigger picture uh you

033know I I always kind of bristle a little bit when we say you know these times are things are really polarizing you know you can go back if you went back to a certain year in American history you could get people just as angry about the gold in the silver standard and it'd be hard to get that same argument going today so you know I don't want to give us a pass that you know this is when things are hard it was easier before um you know things are hard America is a hard place to make it work right and it takes struggle so um and the other thing it really makes me think about is you know so a comment I made last year's board retreat that I think rubbed Brian the wrong way

034um about the role of Facebook and how helpful it was and I I have never been a big proponent of Facebook as a platform to discuss issues uh for me what I use Facebook for is to keep up with my friends back on the east coast and friends locally who I don't get to to stay in touch with I like to see what they're eating for dinner and what they're doing with their kids um to me it's not a really healthy environment to discuss issues you know it's a good place to get out basic information hey we're having a meeting on Tuesday we're going to talk about this on Wednesday um but you know ask him I I look at Facebook I skim through stuff I've seen horrible comments that folks have made on all

035ends of the spectrum things uh that I really can't imagine that somebody would actually say to somebody's face uh and so you know maybe we want to when we get to talking about our board working agreement for the next year you know maybe talk about what is the role of Facebook in our discussions and deliberations um just something to think about that's a good comment I agree I think I heard missed most of what Randy I don't know what I missed while I was trying to figure out my end my internet problems I don't know if I want to rehash it but uh I haven't heard a lot of what Brandi or you knows me have said and I haven't heard him recently here I don't know where you guys are now whether there's something

036you want to say I mean there's not much that I can add um we're gonna have to work with each other that's what we signed up for let's figure out a way to do it because this isn't Fun this is painful sometimes I dread coming to these meetings and I shouldn't have to ask you a question in this if it's okay can we have Brandy say something and then give me that sure conversations I had uh yesterday evening with Bob and this morning with Ron it gave me definitely a lot to reflect on as far as the role of uh my role as chair and I have it's emotional the last three weeks um have really been um they've been exhausting in replying back to people's um emails and policy questions and procedure questions and

037you know what Dave has talked about about what's been going on on Facebook um and I have tried to be very diligent in in my response to people um and that was really difficult and frustrating at times when um there was a lot of Silence from you Dave and that was hard and I thought okay well this is my role as chair I mean I need to respond to constituents and do so in a professional manner and I I do agree with what Bob and Ron and you know are all saying about that we need in order to be a highly functioning board we need to be together on this as far as we can have our differences but they need to be constructive our discussions need to be constructed and we need to keep

038moving forward and you know I'm a pretty optimistic person and so I thought okay well we're all starting off at different spots like we this is all about the individual and we will we will all grow at our own paces and we will build this team and after the comments made on Thursday night's meeting I was just I don't even know what I was I was disappointed I was angry I was just completely unsure of what in the world we were doing or where we could go and also the fact that they were made in front of children I mean they were children of color in the audience listening to us and that was devastating that's devastating and I it's tough because that the specific constituent asked for a yes why you know director Brown

039is needing to explain his no vote I want to hear Wiley yes votes that was my response this is why I voted yes and I I fully agree that in retrospect as chair I needed to word that differently in order to get those thoughts across and that is why I sent out I responded to three emails and I stepped away because I recognized that I was in an emotional state about this and it wasn't going to be constructed and the the balancing part that I'm on is that I as chair you're right I am often perceived as speaking for the board sometimes I am formally speaking for the board and as an individual board member I have um intense connection to this work and so how do I balance that and it's going to be

040a learning process for all of us um and I don't regret saying what I said I do I I do find it highly unfortunate that either Brian or Dave felt attacked I was certainly not my message my message was I'm upset with the way that the comments I'm upset with the comments I'm not upset with you as individuals and at the same time I do recognize that as chair I should have not had such an emotional response to that email so that's all wrong I don't know that summarizes it but thank you you guys I think it's something important too though um you know is when when the listening's not there though when you talk about kids listening um I spent my whole life that's what I've done working with kids and um I've been

041besieged by you know people supporting what I did and it's been encouraging to me probably wouldn't be encouraging to some of you guys but they're encouraged that their kids did hear that because they don't agree with the resolution they don't agree with what's going on out there so I mean we I think going back to what Bob and Ron were saying you know there's a there's a there's a bigger picture than our school board and we've got to look at the whole perspective you know I mean I'm not trying to use this it's probably a really bad example it's like the bond Levy we're just talking about money but now that we have covid and everything's changing you know we might have to change how we look at everything we do in our schools from

042ground up and so we're gonna have to adjust to that and there's going to be disagreements but you know that gets back to where it's okay to you know at least we have to say it's okay to disagree and not be mad and hurt each other and as I totally agree I I've seen it in you and I know I feel the same exact way um come to the board meetings about the last thing I want to do and when I disagree with you or anybody else on the board strongly it's like it's hard and uh but I think you know going through you know as a board what we're doing um we're all really different people on this board I mean and and I appreciate all the time you guys put in because if

043anybody knows how much time I'm putting in it's you guys and Brandi I get it it's a ton of time and and uh so we know that most the public doesn't know how much time this school board thing takes and all the money we don't make so I I for me I want to get back to the point where we're we have to be mature enough on this board to say I flat out 100 disagree with you but I am still going to sit down and chat with you and uh because I'm telling you guys for everybody that that that uh has hammered me I've got somebody supported me and so it's it's been you know that's not what I ever wanted to sign up for but that's just the reality of the the thing

044I'm standing up for what I I believe and you're standing up what for what you believe and uh the one thing I've heard consistent though from all of us which is rare that we're all on the same page is I really truly believe this I really believe that Rebecca Brandy Bob Ennis Brian and Ron we all care about kids I've heard that we we go about it in a different way we think about it in a different way some of us want to think about uh how we should do it in a different way but I I one of the things I hang my hat on in is the fact that I I really believe we do all care about kids uh we definitely look at it you know in the current term different lens

045but uh when I get frustrated and I walk away from a meeting and I don't want to come back to the next one I really believe that everybody here is and their heart cares about kids and so I appreciate that about you guys and uh like I said months ago sometimes we have to to Tee It Up and uh you know my goal isn't to wake up this morning and have an argument with Rebecca pyros I I like Rebecca I think she's not only a nice lady and raised a great family you know I know she's been through hell and back with all of her her stuff she's gone through and I appreciate your service Rebecca I'm just talking to you right now but uh and I know we disagree and we you know we

046can do things different and that's part of like our board working better together you know maybe all through this and I'm sorry some of my actions made it harder for you guys uh you know I strongly believe in what I believe I put in resolution and I tried to say that in a way where I had a lot of people say it was said very well but again the fundamental thing about disagreeing is is okay we disagree where are we going to go next like again a dumb example in the Bond movie are we going to really rebuild Dundee school when we might not even have the same type of schools anymore I don't know you know I don't know I mean to me that's a question but uh you know that's more of a

047you know it's going to be a hot button issue in a couple months but you know right now um again I don't wake up Rebecca Ennis or brandy anybody you guys you know I'm hoping you guys have a good day and and I I that's why I keep saying you know moving forward is is uh our best move and uh I know I'm going on Long on this but I know emotions are running high and uh I I would just say we we at least have got to quit judging each other within this this Zoom meeting that you think we know I'm an elite I'll I'll end with this and I'll quit talking for a while the reason I've done well coaching is because we always put together team building things and it's amazing how

048when you do that and people really get to start talking we've never really done that on this board and you really start to understand you know example like you know who Bob Woodruff really is you can start to to get the whole picture of him and not just these two-hour board meetings we get in the comments or me or Ennis or anybody else on this board and we haven't done that and I think if we did if we understood each other's life and background just a little bit more uh then we we might be a little bit more understanding where we're all coming from because I still again I think we all care about kids so I'll quit talking now I have more conversation around this I would want to know how Brian is feeling

049foreign I try to be a forgiving person I believe we all need to give each other more grace I think that's the biggest thing in the world these days is we don't give you we're too quick to assume the worst but I really wonder what the conversation we're having right now would be if in in what Brandi said about us you substituted the word white for black I wonder I wonder what this conversation would look like if that was the sentence that had gone out um and I just it's it is very bothersome to me that we seem to be okay with racism against certain groups we seem to be okay with racism against the historical oppressors and I I absolutely reject this narrative that's going around of America as a fundamentally myself as fundamentally

050a place of oppressors and oppressed uh you know for for every example you can give me of the horrors of white supremacy I can I can show you the abolitionists who worked in slavery the hundreds of thousands of Union soldiers who gave up their lives I don't dispute that the Civil War is about slavery it was about slavery and that means that there were a lot of white people who went and gave the ultimate sacrifice to ultimately free the slaves and this narrative that we have going around right now where it's just the evil white patriarchy oppressing everyone else first of all it's false it's dogmatic it has the elements of religion to it frankly and I feel like we're on the road to indoctrinating our children with it and the other day my son

051came to me because he's seven years old um he's not he's he's pretty smart he he knows a lot about what's going on in the world and he said to me Daddy are the white people the bad people and I wonder if if the and when I say that I I I hope none of you in your heart of hearts answered yes they are and if if you did I I hope you'll reflect on where you're at as a person right now but we should not be sowing future inequities by trying to address past inequities and I feel like that's where the road we're on currently with the intolerant social justice bent and I did notice that in that resolution that we put that there and I I almost voted against it just for that

052and I think I would have been justified in that and I kind of wish I had frankly so why did why did you vote for it because I fundamentally want to support all people and I I do want to make a statement against racism and frankly I'm honestly I've been a little being down because you know this group is barely I have not found this group to be very open to other ideas and honestly at that point I was just so worn down that I was like who cares I'm not going to fight it I'm tired of fighting and not having any anyone try to move towards my point of view at all everyone seems to be at their point of view and no one feels the need to to try and go into the

053center and find compromise on so Brian I think that's I think that Mommy it's on me well it's not you're not describing my experience with you Brian you've had at least a couple times I can probably point to where you've helped change my view about certain things um uh I as you know I'm a strong supporter of that resolution I was glad to see you support it I assumed and again I shouldn't be assuming I should have asked but I assumed you supported it because you wanted to see us remove uh achievement gaps you wanted everybody to feel safe in schools and that's basically what this thing was about I I have very mixed feelings on achievement gaps um first of all I'm not I there is obviously if you if you arbitrarily break up

054our student population into racial groups and you see disparities those those are there right but we have never done any sort of methodological analysis we've never done any sort of multi-factor analysis or commissioned anyone to do a multi-factor analysis actually show that these disparities are the result of some sort of racial bias we haven't gotten it no social scientists worth their worth their salt would take a raw data set and try to extrapolate conclusions from it so I don't honestly know if we have a racial disparity in our schools because we've never done the work to find out what the data actually says well I'm a little bit of a little facility with data and I am convinced and I think it's because there's so many redundant ways that the same thing keeps showing up

055so that's not a doubt in my mind but why is it that we assume that two you know well I consider arbitrary groups race is not real I know that that well except that its effects have consistently been real in history I don't I'm not really ignorant getting back into the argument I was I really wanted to hear what your reason was for supporting it and uh what the content of it that was that you were looking forward you know that you were favorable to I supported it because I agreed with 60 of it I'd rather get 60 than not 60 I wanted to say that we and I don't know if this is really what that resolution says but we don't want to treat people differently based on the color of their skin that

056we want to give everyone an equal opportunity to succeed regardless of of their status of birth um and I'm not convinced that's what that does and to me that doesn't result in when we do test scores which frankly are not I don't know why we why we care so much about test scores because they are so flawed you know certain people are better at taking tests why is that the only thing we have to measure achievement by it's a problem but I first I don't know if you look at the wages of two groups of people you'll find disparities it's nature it's the reality of the world so uh a white person of Russian descent makes 19 cents Less on the dollar than a white person of French descent is that what is what is

057causing that I'm sure there's all kinds of historic patterns and stuff that play into that disparity it's not quite privilege obviously but there's a disparity there because disparities are the normal in nature and it's okay it's okay it doesn't devalue the humanity of the the people who are on the lower end of that of that test score well right now so right now Brian it's almost like you're saying a White Russian is somehow lesser capable than I know of that away no not at all not at all kind of sounded like that that's why people might interpret it that way because you know they you know they may tend to go into different occupations that pay different wages so again like if you took group a and Group B and you didn't tell me what

058the labels were and you showed me yeah he said what are the the potentials uh causes of this I'm sure one of them would be racism and yeah racism might be the root cause of our achievement Gap and we have to deal with that but we don't have that data well we don't have any better data either so the fact that we don't have any better data means we go on the best data we have um I appreciate that Brian I appreciate your explanation I think it helps me I don't I don't think we need to dominate more time with that particular question unless you feel like we do I need a break from this can we take some time yeah absolutely so let's come back at 205 it's about a 14 minute break foreign

059thank you to do that baby people practically thank you are we back um some of us are gathering I don't think we're officially back okay foreign good all right so we're back it's 205 everyone's back okay Randy can I start sure Rebecca okay first of all I want to thank Bob for calming me down I'm sorry for getting for over speaking to Dave and Brian but as you can tell I feel passionate about this work we're doing and um as Dave said we care about the work we do at the board and we do it for the students and for the families of newberg's Dundee School District going forward we need to build trust between our board members I need to know that that Dave's vote I need I would like to understand what he

060didn't like about the resolution the resolution we presented not what other other school boards or other districts on on the resolution that Newberg School Board passed and I need to know that that Brian if you don't agree with something that you will speak up because we we depend on the voices of the board to help Direct are our work what we're doing and when we have an open dialogue which I thought we had previous to this last episode that um if there were questions that you feel free to resp Joe had asked for questions on the the resolution presented and we had the packet from them Friday to the Tuesday at any time questions could have been raised and um I have to be able to trust that if you have serious questions about something

061that that it's being raised so we could discuss it and and um also that you have trust to your fellow board members to share your statements as such as what Dave shared on on Thursday night um that would go a long way to create a working dialogue between us all and I think then yes your vote you can vote whichever way you feel that's your right and and um I I don't have to agree with it but I can accept that that you um shared with us your your reasonings and we could look at them and say yes they're they're right or no we don't agree with your reasonings but you're still able to use your voice as you see fit but because there was such a void in what in in not knowing what

062was going on it made it an uncomfortable position to be in and so I I want to build I want to be trustworthy and um thoughtful in what I vote for and to listen to all the voices at the table that's why we aren't a diverse group and we all come with different perspectives but we need to also work to share those perspectives and um on the situation with Brandy I I have full trust in her as a board chair and um it's not for any of us board members to call for resignations or for various board members to step down you were elected by the people the people have that right to ask for for you to step down if if so be it to a recall position but I but I don't feel

063that it's our place to to call for your resignation or call for for days or Brian's resignation there are other ways we can handle that so thank you thank you Bob and Ron for being so level-headed we we are thankful to have um cooler heads at times on the board thanks Rebecca how was the board feeling about moving on to the goal conversation or do we want to stay here and continue this conversation uh if I can just respond to what she said yeah I I take full responsibility for not speaking up about my concerns about the resolution um you know I I explained why that was to add to my list there's also there was also the realization of um what I knew would happen and what did happen to Dave so you know

064there that sort of um pressure to conform to not be a a target of the mob and that is that is just the reality we live in that's no one's on this board's fault but I will try to make sure that I speak my mind even on even on the the depression days if you will um Rebecca you had like three things you were asking there can you repeat those again I mean I got the last one um um what was the last one about Brandy and the oh that that you will speak up if you have questions even ahead of time that that we can hear your voice that that we trust that you will you will be forthcoming with with the board how you feel about things we still haven't really heard about

065this particular res resolution what is it not thinking of the osba or the um caucus what is it about our particular resolution that you disagree with and that would help us to to understand and and maybe defend you as your right to say no the the resolution is a direct reflection of are are super close um I'm trying to get right really how we are so connected to osba I mean if we pretty much do what they say and that's that's that's just that just came out in my ear here um I've seen many things about the SBA that I haven't liked uh but you know coming from a just a school board member in Newburgh it's like um I've asked for a couple meetings down there I haven't got repeat I haven't got any

066responses you know to come down to talk to people uh that's something I just need to keep working at and get some answers for myself but our our resolution came out of uh their uh their overall intent what was coming out in Tiger 12th and we see everybody else we were pretty similar but when I looked at that thing at first I was like Brian so I was like well what the heck we're going to pass this thing anyway and it's like you know why why even try to sit back and and go over that then when I couldn't make my comment there was no way when I looked at white supremacy in our resolution and it was constantly are talking about the very thing that when we're talking about we're gonna um higher of

067color I'm okay with everybody in our our District staff is is black brown white I mean I don't care I just want the best teachers um but a lot of our that whole resolution to me and almost I'm getting a lot of of positive feedback a lot of people feel this way you don't but they feel like we have just kowtowed down to the the popular uh thinking right now and it it is rooted in in something that's not healthy for our country or our kids and it's you can say it's left you can say it's liberal you can say whatever you want and um the very thing we're talking about it's interesting we're talking about racist but now we have to be anti-racist and that comes directly from what I said in my statement

068and I said over and over and over again that I have spent my entire life and career supporting every single kid that comes before me or every family that comes before me I don't care if they're brown black or white I don't care and and I'm not inherently racist and that's what white supremacy means and if you guys want to vote for that you have a lot of people that are on your side but you have a lot of people that disagree with that and I think over the next month or so uh this conversation is gonna to get bigger and bigger and uh it's gonna be a tough one and uh that's why when I adopt my stance Rebecca and I go back to uh I'm gonna treat every person in front of me

069fine I'm going to treat them as well as I can I'm going to respect them because I don't care personally I don't care and when I'm called inherently racist through a white supremacy type thing in our resolution in Newburgh Oregon there is no way I'm voting for that and I think it was totally wrong for that and I I'd like to know where we were all at May 24th if if our schools were so dangerous and so bad for our kids and and everything just think about this if we had a measles outbreak or we would add anything like that or who had covid-19 we shut our schools down immediately for the state of Oregon and because we're out to protect kids we weren't there anywhere until May 24th we didn't do anything until George

070Floyd passed away and was was was killed and I've condemned that in my my letter I don't know if you guys even read the letter I totally condemned that but I what I don't condone is the fact that we're Newburgh just like everybody else around here and some school districts aren't putting up with it and some communities are not putting up with it that we're being told because we're white that we're inherently racist and I just don't believe that I don't believe in the white supremacy outlook on that and I said my letter over and over again what's happened in our country and how people have been treated poorly and that's everybody you can go back farther than than you want to but we didn't invent slavery in this country this slavery was invented a

071thousand years before that in Africa within their own peoples and uh it's one of the worst things that this world's ever produced and the the humans that we would actually do that to people and uh like Brian said you know we're trying to make this all about race when we're trying to talk about anti-racism and uh you know we're trying to go out of our way to sit here and and apologize I'm not going to apologize for who I am because I have lived my life trying to be fair to every single person when I've hired people fired people when I've uh promoted people when I've worked with people we spent what 100 years trying to get women to equal rights and it took way too long but it finally is way better I don't

072think it's where it should be Rebecca but I think it's way better than it was a hundred years ago and a lot of these things take a long time decades and and decades to to get better at and are there racist white people in this country absolutely absolutely but if you talk to people enough around this country you'll also find that there are racist people in all Races in my bank and I I have I've had that so many people said that and uh we can all have our intent and I'm sure uh that everybody's got their stories as we heard the other night and I listen to every single one of those people talk and I thought some of those guys have some really darn good points and I thought other people were speaking

073on completely On Emotion and uh you know so our meeting started today with nothing but emotion and it's it's not the way to get anything done not on a school board and we're talking about five thousand five hundred workers but uh the language in that thing I I the more I looked at Rebecca and I came to the the point where I had to to make a decision that night um could I have called in I thought about that later I was so mad my computer was broke down and I couldn't make my statement I had a statement all prepared but you know the only thing good about it was for me is as I looked at that deeper and deeper and deeper uh uh the more and more um it's wrong and and we've

074already passed it it's it's it's a go but it's not right it's not the right uh way to go on this and the more we talk about color the more we talk about brown black and white the the farther we're going to move from being healthy and do I think every single kid I don't care if a kid just got here from Mexico first time first day that kid needs to be treated as well as any kid in our school district but so does every white kid and so does every black kid in our community so is every Asian kid I don't care about those those labels we're putting on everybody and that resolution puts labels out and whether or not you can sit back and shake your head right now and be all disgusted

075about labels that's exactly what we're doing and it's the wrong way to go you know if you're a Christian and you go to church you would say it's sin but I'll I'll back away from that because not everybody here goes to church but you can talk talk about as a heart issue that's where it's really at on this thing it's a heart issue and uh there's people in our district and I I said this before in my 20 years working at Newburgh high school was there racism going on I never saw it directly from a staff member to a kid did it happen I'm sure it did I'm I'm positive at it I didn't see it personally I saw it from student to student and it went all which ways from One race to another

076and to speak to some of these kids it always you know get get ripped up you know all you guys have had the same experience some of us are older different decades by far but kids are brutal kids say stuff all the time I had so many things they needed me uh you know growing up that you just go home and you are beating down you're a kid you don't know how to handle it and then when you get to be 63 and you go to a school board and you make a no vote then you learn again how hateful people can be and all the mean things they can say and uh how rude they can be and when you try to speak to them one word they turn around say nope you're wrong

077I gotta fix you I'm not interested in fixing brown people or black people or white people I'm interested in loving on them taking care of them and making sure they're okay and white supremacy and our our resolution was absolutely racist and wrong okay I don't know what it was yeah that's that that answers it okay good I I really want to honor our time and commitment to the goals or forming the goals you does anyone feel like we need to take a little bit of a break again to let this section of the meeting pass or can we move on to the next agenda item Brandy I have one more thing okay um I just sit back and re-read what you wrote and again and I'd like I just like to know why because we're

078on this right now and I know we're going to move on to other things that we're talking about in your in your words this is your quote I am disgusted by the statements that director Shannon and brown gave last night I am embarrassed for our community I pray that that little boy who grows up strong and determined that he understands that while some people stood on the sidelines and some actively yelled and screamed to protect their perceived superiority others fought for him last part I agree with the first part's horrible and and again I I I can't come to grips with uh how you used your position to to to come directly at director Shannon and myself and I personally I think you're a nice lady I like you as a board member right now

079Ennis always tells me she's upset I'm upset I don't like having those things said you know I'm pretty tough and I can handle all this crap that's been thrown at me for the last three weeks and I get it you know computers don't work I don't make a statement this happens this happens but I've had to sit there and listen to this fortunately I'm getting more on the positive side so that makes me feel better but I don't care about me on this thing and I feel like it's way too much about all of us and uh we don't have that luxury we need to be about you know this the school but I I don't like what that said and I don't think we we need to come back to that at some point

080I know we can go on about it all day long but I went down made a an eggnog on our break right there and I stopped and I said what about Brian's son you know I teared up over that a little seven-year-old kid sent to his dad saying you know are all white people bad and that's the the bad message that all of this has come about are all white people bad dad a seven-year-old saying that so is he just as important as a kid uh from a brown family or a black family yeah he is is he inherently racist as a seven-year-old no he's not and I'm just like wow you know where have we gone with this conversation because I know you love your kids more than anything in the world you're a

081great mom I get that and Rebecca and everybody else and and Ron and it was celebrating his kids graduating this year it was awesome if we're if we're trying to put a group down and to build another group up it's it's absolutely gonna crumble on us as a school board we've got to step back and reflect on this and uh I know we have to move on but that's fine no I mean okay not like it to stop so now it is re-recording I apologize I don't know what that did okay I think the meeting with the last meeting wasn't recorded at least that's what I was told when I asked for a record because I missed it so that guys mean we're we're doing Zoom meetings from here on out we won't meet in

082person again someday but not I don't and then soon and I assume we could we could record them after even record them on Zoom even if we wanted to after we were meeting in person but that's another question I guess those are two separate conversations but you know as we're going now I just I would like to have all of our meetings going forward available recorded for folks whether it's in person or Zoom so Greg I know in our conversations around this you had mentioned that we might need to speak legal counsel just to ensure that we're meeting guidelines and if we need to do that that would certainly come at some sort of cost so I agree that it needs to be a board action Joe Greg am I correct in that Assumption of

083needing to go out to Legal uh yeah we'll check in with legal but I think that the the question and Ines kind of spoke to it and we've seen the YouTube closed captioning Auto translate which is actually frankly not bad um because I I actually use my closed captioning partly because I'm starting to not be able to hear as well so I use that a lot in different meetings but uh but getting it up to YouTube the closed captioning has always been the the issue for us so a streaming meeting would be would be harder to do um but not impossible so now we'll check on that it's it's not going to if we're if that will cover us and that would be something that's minimal to no cost so that's just part of our

084process I don't think we're gonna have to uh to do too much on that we can report back we can put it out to an email we'll certainly check in um with our attorney on that but that's not a that's not a huge expense for us to do and probably smart for us to just get that before we move forward but no we don't need more action that's something that you want to move toward especially I think in light of us doing all of these this way and we have the capacity to put them up then um that also might change the level of detail on written minutes and so we can actually get them turned around faster now we've got a full recording I think we talked earlier in the year about having auto

085audio recordings of of our committee meetings things like that so this actually can kind of fit within that same that same space and I knew do you need to jump on there to say that um today's meeting it was impossible for me to to keep up with minutes as I've done in the past so there will not be um written minutes that reflect everyone's comments there's just no way for me to do that from the course of this meeting that's good understandable probably lengthy heated conversation would probably cover it okay good we got that is there anything else before we get to the goals all right who who wants to start us off with one of the goals and I'm assuming I a week ago emailed out my notes on this around the four goals

086that we had chatted about so I'm hoping everybody has a chance to have a chance to look at those and develop some language of Their Own Brandy I don't that was what I was texting you about did you send that to me I don't know if I had it was it wasn't like a it was like I can forward it to you right now okay um I uh on the well my the paper here I have says commit to becoming an anti-racist board as the first heading and then has learning and bond and safety underneath that is that the right one I should be looking at um the first three of those under the committee becoming an antivirations board are are um as well the state the first one is pretty specific about listening sessions

087although we'll have to figure out how many and and what the format is um I'm not sure what the next two are meant to mean uh board development education uh so you know I'm not asking us to clarify that right now I'm just pointing out it doesn't it's not clear how that's it's not self-executing exactly uh the create an equity lens we've been talking about Equity lenses off and on the whole eight years I've been here so and it's always been relatively abstract to me what that means exactly how do we it's unless we're just means we're paying attention to equity issues which is what we should be doing uh is if it means something more than that if it's something more specific it would be useful to have reference to that because I don't

088think we've ever in my eight years had that clarified more than just sort of in general and I guess my last comment on that first category would be I think that it's possible to come up with a more specific actions that we could take for example um I I already wrote this up this morning but the we talked to just just a little bit ago about the data that we have on different things and so it'd be useful to update our data on variable outcomes by race ethnicity gender Etc and not just into terms of achievement but in terms of discipline or bullying and harassing or access to special programs like tag or music or drama or sports or whatever robotics uh uh and that's an action that we could ask or I mean that's

089a specific action we can ask our staff to take um in a normal year at least if we're not killing them with by this action this year uh another one like that would be to research other districts uh I actually started doing that a little bit this week um having a little more time on my hand than I wanted and um I found some interesting things I'd like to pursue and I think you know we had a group working on that a little more systematically it could be more fruitful and then I'm thinking about some you know like even adding something about pursuing it some extra funding different funding for I don't know what to call them a fair start initiatives where we get kids on the same starting line at some point or closer

090to that um uh Fair start initiatives or something did I say that that something like that that we would I'd like to see some action steps in there that make sense and that are doable and that would improve our understanding the problem and so forth I've written those up if anybody wants to see how they wrote them so sorry on the first start thing how would you measure that like what what would that look like in your mind well it's vague in my mind uh and uh it's not specific but it would be where we can identify that students are entering this entering schools at some sort of disadvantage uh linguistic perhaps uh maybe you know um they're not they're not groups of students aren't coming in with prepared to read or whatever these things

091are that um where we can identify that they're not starting at the same starting line uh some of that would reach Pre-K probably and I'm not really sure we can afford to extend our mission at this point with the funds we have but that's why I was talking about looking for other signs of funding so I'm sure people are already doing this and I'm not the first person to think of this uh and and maybe that Joe will tell me yeah we've been doing that for years and we've come up with just this much or whatever but my my ex my point is these would be examples of action steps that would help us embody what this concern is in a way that would be beneficial to kids and who how would you decide who

092would need that help are you thinking that it would be at the individual student level or by group whichever way would seem to be most effective to whatever the the the the literacy need is some of it would be individual but there might be situations where we can identify groups that we can reach and make a big impact that's just me talking about my head I think uh it might even be worthwhile to have a committee on the board on this if we need to or or if it's better to have a committee of Staff that's reporting to the board or something I mean that I'm I haven't got any specific idea about how that happens I'd just like to see some action steps on that I also remember and I didn't put it in

093here but uh my uh at a previous meeting I'm meetings are running together for me now I asked for uh input from from anybody about policies in particular that seem to have disparate impacts that we wouldn't have intended and um I started looking through policies and I haven't marked up much but if some people are aware of particular policies that are just not working fairly and we could do some policy revision as well like you know we need more of that apparently everybody loves policy so Ryan I want to make sure I understood um what you were saying and this would have been under the step sort of two of that goal as kind of an action step commit to board coming aboard and races go out my way I have it formatted is six

094steps now um I think I must have added steps after Equity lens I think might have been the last one that was on the list and then I added updated update data research other districts and pursue Fair start initiatives okay Greg did you get those and I can give you the text of it it's not that exciting but it's easier probably Ron could you say them again more so at least update data research other districts so it was the last one okay so the first one is update and extend our data on variable outcomes by race ethnicity um I can share the screen I also just shared the doc with you I'm trying sorry I'm having conversion problems from the email I'm trying to make it okay it's too much I'm sorry good um so

095I'll just Randy would you like me to share the screen so that people can see what I'm working on sure I think it'd be helpful I don't know yeah um would it be possible Joe for you to speak to what we're currently doing along the lines of what Ron is suggesting if you can figure that out yeah which uh so which ones so the he had a question about please start to make sure that we're we're starting all kids off at the same starting line right so the only program that we currently have in place for that is uh paid through a federal migrant Dollars called it's a migrant uh preschool and so we have a set of students who come uh for morning and then a set of students who come for the afternoon

096and that's out over at Edwards and so they have to qualify as a migrant family um and then they are allowed into that program they have to apply for it we have a certain uh limit of it and things like that but that's that's the only um additional start place that we have there are there is a head start in town which is um already at capacity but we don't have any other kinds of things for that piece yet that's just something we have not added into uh Staffing so we pay forward currently through federal dollars Federal migrant program so Greg on the what you're doing now where it says update extend our data I think it should say on variable outcomes by race ethnicity Etc and then the no go ahead and then it

097says improve uh you say improve I say oh yeah I wanted to be the uh well that's good enough I mean I would Fair start uh yeah okay I made some uh jargon there that maybe nobody else will want to use but a question oh go ahead sense to even be talking about committing to becoming an Asus board when we just had a long conversation of about an anti-racist resolution that we couldn't agree on I just um thinking that we might be wasting our time and trying to come up with action steps to a goal where we're not in agreement yeah this is a conversation that I I don't think I know the entire answer to but I'm I'm not convinced that we have to be unanimous in that resolution to move forward we don't

098we we will frequently have resolutions where we our decisions we were not unanimous and we moved forward right but there's no I don't know there's even basic understanding of so when we talk about improving um The Starting Line what does that mean that means allocating more resources to some and not others and I think that's what the problem is with the resolution that we passed according to the conversation we just had it's a problem for the those who who don't support the resolution but the rest of us have endorsed the resolution and I I'm really reluctant to slow down on that the the equity lens so this is uh for Enis also um and Ron you brought up the point um what happens in school boards generally um work on those it actually provides a

099set of questions that you can ask when we're looking at putting in programs or making some changes to our systems um you know it there are usually a set of questions for us to consider about who it affects positive and negatively um you know what data has been used to form the initiative um you know what barriers to more Equitable outcomes um are you know planned how does it build capacity and power and underserved groups things like that so they're actually a set of questions that as board members you can ask of Staff of presenting things that helps kind of frame those questions and conversations around program implementation to make sure that the district itself is also paying attention to um all of the the kind of initiatives that we look at from an equity

100standpoint sustainability scalability you know what kind of information can you expect back from the staff about the effects of the decision you know later on things like that so it's a it's kind of a way to frame uh and I've they usually just it's like a two-sided thing of questions and allows you to to ask those either um you're getting that as part of the presentation or if you're not getting that information then it helps frame those those questions for us from the board to the staff so that's kind of you know when you look at when you create the lens it also comes with a tool for you to be able to ask very specific questions about how it supports um underserved or uh underperforming groups yeah yeah I hear your concerns for sure

101and I share um but I also agree with Ron and I think um it's important that you know we've we've started this as seen by our difficult conversation this afternoon and I think by having the action steps in there it's uh it's giving us concrete things to work on how do we on number one I mean can you guys explain that one to me a little bit closer how that works listening sessions yeah Joe will you speak to that a little bit because we've had a little conversation around it but not a lot and you want more experience with that sure um well we in in a way we sort of did a beginning of that this uh last Thursday two days ago but when you do this this is more like focus groups to

102find out specifically uh you know when you meet and we'll have to of course do it uh via zoom and what have you but this is how um you can hear uh directly from members of the community around their experience in school and then it helps it then inform both the staff and the board of some of the things that the way people experience school um you know what's happened how does it feel to work here you know so if you're a member a staff member of color uh and so it's just a way for us to do more focus groups directly at the people who are uh at the point of impact and I think that that's when you uh we were talking about this before not just in terms of uh anti-racism but

103also uh in uh how they feel um in our systems and what we can do to improve move certain spaces certain experiences the kinds of programs that we have how do people feel about it it helps bring to light I think some of the stories and lived experiences of some of our our communities who we traditionally underserve frankly so there are lots of ways to do these but they're basically focused groups and then allow you to hear directly from from Stu students families and staff members of color and in this more structured way so yeah there's a lot of ways to do these focus groups but we've done them I've done them in the past many times with with uh hard conversations rather than having a huge board meeting which can be very uh very

104intimidating frankly for people so how do you do it in a more uh comfortable way where you can get some some listening in and and uh provide you some insight directly from those people who are most affected how do we so when we say students families and staff members of color I mean I mean what how are we choosing color well we generally let people self-identify um you know we set it up that way uh and so the listening sessions in this case are about specifically what are the experiences of our student staff and families of color so we would say that you know you may select that and there are I have heard from people who consider themselves people of color across multiple multiple racial groups and so it's really we would not predetermine

105that we let people self-select about how they uh you know how they identify and they may be what we as a my from my own perspective I might consider a person of color they may not consider themselves a personal impeller depending upon their experience so um that's kind of a you make an open invitation and people who wish to um to identify and then be part of those focus groups would do that so I mean we're not limited this to uh a color we're just saying why can't we just say conduct listening sessions with students families and staff members I mean because if we're not picking color then we're not picking color so but we're we're specifically targeting experiences of our non-white community that's part of the listening session to hear from um the the

106Lesser number of people's experiences there are there are fewer in number and so it's a way to reach out directly and specifically but if we're talking about being an anti-racious board I mean I get that totally I think we should do that one um but then don't we need to talk to our entire set of students families and staff members because I mean everybody's got their experience not when we're talking about um trying to figure out what it's like to experience School um from the perspective of somebody who uh looks different than the vast than the larger majority so you're trying to get specifically the experiences of people whose voices aren't necessarily heard I guess I I'm just trying to wrap that around I mean I get talking to everybody I just I'm just trying

107to think well if you're you know we're labeling so we're saying staff members of color in this thing we're saying you know you have to be you know we're saying you know not white is what we're saying we correct have like one a here could be we need to conduct listening sessions with all students families and staff members because everybody's got their experience I mean that's that's what we're trying to get back if there's bad experiences with the staff members or kids or families um and I'm sure there are um but we know that um you know all of our kids struggle with with a lot of this stuff and uh I mean don't we want to hear them too if certainly if we had folks who wanted to come and describe their experience being

108discriminated as a white person in our district I would be open to hearing that I haven't heard I haven't heard before that that's been an issue that white folks are white people are being white students and staff are experiencing discrimination for their their uh their race but um it'll be open here and if folks are feeling discriminated because of being white I mean I I guess I've been I'm trying to take the bad point of this because you guys said I didn't ask enough questions so I'm trying to ask the tough questions here guys are we saying then that that uh we don't want to hear the perspective because you know we're not going out and actively saying that we're going to go out and we're actively seeking experiences of folks who have experienced racism

109in the Newburgh School District if folks who are white feel like they've experienced uh have been the targets of racism I would want to hear that but I mean the way this is red right I mean can't we just say that we want to conduct the listening sessions with students families and staff members around the issue of racism I mean that gets everybody there it stops this thing where we insist on breaking everyone into groups and saying them against each other um why can we not take that approach I think one of the reasons is that we want to make sure that everybody feels comfortable sharing what their what their experience is I suppose you could have a situation where you offered uh listening sessions to uh different groups including and one for a majority

110race groups and um they can they could we could listen to all those um I think the the notion is that if if uh everybody's invited and everybody shows up proportionate to their um ethically engender then the meeting would be dominated by the people who probably have experienced maybe not in entirely no discrimination but less discrimination and we were trying to get things where we can hear from people we don't normally hear from so that's the notion of having some that would be uh aimed at folks of color who might have discriminated I think there's an argument here that there are some other groups that aren't what are you eating Bob that's so distracting uh uh other groups that are uh uh my preparing some disadvantage I mean I'm thinking of homeless people which would

111not necessarily be racially distributed or at least not per you know it's mixed race uh mixed ethnicity or it could we could even talk about religious minorities I mean depends on how much time and effort we can put into this uh we might do listening sessions for other groups who also have trouble accessing the full advantage of our school district okay tough question guys is it fair to say really quick I just want to say one quick thing about that before we move on just really quick um I as a person who identifies as a white majority person in this community I think that I will find a lot of value in hearing the stories of others hearing the stories of people that I don't regularly interact with or that I don't share experiences with

112so it is my hope as an individual that in conducting these sessions with specific subsets and groups of students staff and community members that I can then better understand their experience and that is my impetus for wanting to move forward in that direction just going to add that go ahead Dave no Brandy I totally agree I mean I try to do that really and everything I've worked at through but my my counter on that is are we it says to me it sounds like again you know I was wondering why I voted no and it's like we want to commit to be an anti-racist board we're are we are we still set set back saying that because the way it work it's worded like we only have a one-sided issue here I mean well perhaps

113one way we could work is conduct listening sessions with students families and staff members who have experienced racism in the Newburgh School District I mean that to me it takes away white brown and black which I that's what I want to get away from I I agree I want to know about any staff member kid parent that's you know I said that a couple weeks ago very passionately that if we have a staff member treating kids like that they gotta go that's you know that's right you know perhaps why that didn't stand out to me is because I've never known white folks to be discriminated against uh as a major issue that I've experienced in my life and I've never experienced racial discrimination uh because of being a white person that I'm aware of um

114if if it happened it was so subtle I never even knew it was happening um I can see places where I've benefited from being white and I wanted to hear and still want to hear from anybody who's experienced racism in our district I I think it's important that where we can we use language that brings us together uh rather than breaking us apart and our communities had enough division over all this like let's use language that invites everyone in the community out to talk about this important subject and not having a sign up that says no whites I mean that's essentially the the uh you know the unspoken part of how we currently are phrasing it and I I like the way you phrased it then it's very likely that you will not hear from

115your communities of color frankly it's the it's the way that these meetings operate because often uh the the voices of um the folks we always hear from are going to overshadow everybody else's voices and they just won't show up so I I hear what you're saying but um if you're specifically trying to understand um the experiences of people who experience racism those are your people staff students families of color as a white person you can't experience racism because you are in the majority culture it's a it's a it's part of the definition of racism so it's I think that the challenge in all of this is that if you're trying to figure out where your system feels racist to or the experiences of people of color who have felt that racism then you have to

116ask that specific question if you want to find out from other people how white people feel like they're experiencing racism that is a different conversation but if you do not specifically go um uh asking for and targeting groups that you know have experienced this because of the way of the world for hundreds or even as Dave put it thousands of years that we have to ask those people specifically and that's why that's why this is in here that way yeah and while I would support changing it to anyone who has uh been discriminated against experience discrimination in the Newberg School District I would not be supportive of just an open meeting where everybody came to talk about race um you know to me that would just be um kind of what we dealt with here

117writ large and without structures and boundaries that could make it productive you know at least we all have defined roles and why we're here and what we're doing here and structures in how we operate um if if we were if we were to do that you know I would want to meet with groups of folks you know whether they were Asian Pacific Islanders African Americans Hispanics Latinos whatever group if we had a group of white white people who felt like they had been uh discriminated against would want to hear about that but not in just a general cattle call meeting Joe I I just have to say I I found your definition of racism to be uh outrageous I mean that's not in my mind the definition of racism than the idea that you can't

118have someone be racist against you because you're the majority that's that's absurd it's absurd would you define racism what how would you define racism I would Define racism as attributing traits and stereotypes to an individual based on a perception of a group that's what racism is to me that's certainly an old it's an older definition of racism that was current a long time ago I I think it we also are dealing here with the version of racism that says uh things that aren't even intended or not in or or um are not based on somebody's Supremacy over others still affect people differently affect people differently based on their ethnic and racial backgrounds that's another version that's the more systemic racism we're talking about uh and yeah and even an individual relationships with there are uh

119elements of uh I wouldn't call it overt racism but certain really cert really racism where things are just are just treated differently um and so I don't think we can use the more limited version of racism because the word has expanded and it's a problem that makes it less clear what we're talking about we're talking about racism but that's the way the language is gone and the part that we I'm concerned about is whatever parts of that end up with disparate outcomes that aren't based on anything but they're primarily based on that I think a racial background and that includes both systemic and white white supremacy and inadvertent and all that kind of stuff they're all like this is umbrella term for all that now how about your guys background on you know how we're

120all treated and I know you know it's all over the place and we live in a more protected area of Newburgh I don't I don't know where you guys have traveled to but I've traveled and I've been treated completely racist by you know I hate the colors we keep throwing out here but by black people by brown people by Asian people um completely I I feel like this gets back to like the only people are racists are the white people is that what we're saying no I think what we're saying is we want to specifically focus on learning the experiences of people of color in our community so that we can better understand is a white majority board their needs their struggles so that we can help lead in a more comprehensive and inclusive way

121that's what I see when I see that we're going to be conducting listening sessions with specific groups of people I agree we should I mean if if kit whatever situation we have to put people in we got to put them in a situation where they're gonna open up their heart and say it I so I agree with that but I it goes back to me that every single person needs to be talked to here I mean we're talking about our school district you know we weren't put here just to talk about kids that play sports or a color or anything and when we say when we keep using this students families of color you know we can invite them to a meeting and you can you can say it in a way without having to

122do it all the time but every I've been treated awful by some of those groups and I've been treated great by some of those groups I've been treated awful by you know white people and I've been treated great I mean it's like it goes everybody's you know inherently sinful and their hearts are going to be mean there is racism out there Every Which Way but Loose and so when we go to this we need to listen to everybody in our school if they if they feel more comfortable doing it in a in a group where they can be more open Joe I totally get that I would support that 100 percent but I think you know we have to sit back and and we need to listen to everybody because what happens right now in

123our schools and I'm telling you after 20 years there for an example our our kids have been left out in the dark for way too long because we have too many people who who make all these decisions as adults and our kids don't get a strong enough voice and then we our staff will not say anything because they fear for their job and if they stand up and they're they're a distanteen vote like I did they they're going to lose their position they're going to lose their hierarchy there to school and so they don't say anything at all I'm telling you guys that happens across the board at Newbury high school and it's something that's a real problem because if they say it you know if they say we don't like Joe's crazy socks I'm

124not saying Joe would do that I'm trying to make a dumb example that you know they're they're fear their administrator is gonna to drop them on the on the pole a little bit and it's happened I've seen it over and over and over that's a form of racism that we don't talk about I want to bring it back and not negating your experiences but I want to bring it back to us we're on goal one step one don't put color in there I mean that's just don't put color in there just stay at all and we can segregate them or put them in different groups if we want to so we've heard Brian's Brian I'm assuming you have the same general view as gave on that we're going to just break it down to something

125really simple if you don't want the word color in that sentence you're muted I don't want to send out to the community that we only want to hear from people of certain races on a topic that that is divisive okay this is an explosive issue and we we have to understand that you know uh I don't want to have us be the cause of a backlash that divides this community further I I want to approach these things in a way that unifies us Okay so we've heard from Dave and Brian regarding this sentence we are there any other thoughts or ideas on wording around that could could um Bob refresh re repeat his suggestion uh I've suggested changing the wording to conduct listening sessions with students families and staff members who have experienced racism in

126the Newburgh School District thoughts around that wording I mean I wouldn't come and necessarily be open about the racism I've experienced because one I don't necessarily owe anybody anything about sharing my experience um but if you you really care about my experience it would be specific in a more enclosed Circle um a focus group like Joe mentioned I suppose that the proposal would allow us to do several groups and to try to construct them so people would be comfortable speaking I'm not I'm not happy about that I would rather just leave it as the word as it was written maybe to be clear you know conduct focus group listening sessions with crap okay I missed I missed Bob's congestion what did he say uh Greg captured it with the parentheses Focus Group um just to

127clarify that we're not looking to have a open call you know 200 people come uh sort of meeting it would be more focused by uh groups that have experienced racism sharing their experiences um sharing their goals and hopes for the the district I'm not a board member but one of the things that I'm observing is that um some board members are operating from a perspective that racism is um the definition of racism that Brian gave is one that other board members would say is Prejudice and that racist um is prejudism combined with a power structure to be able to enforce those prejudices um and I think that that would be part of the the addition of that or the changing of the warning to what's in parentheses is not going to work unless we also

128Define and agree on the difference between racism versus prejudice how much of our Theory and our stuff right now what you guys are thinking is coming out of what we've heard in the last seven weeks well I can say for me it's I've been hearing stuff about this for 12 15 or 20 years uh I've been slowly catching on to what people have been trying to tell me uh and so it's not new anything we've heard I don't agree with that there is one definition of racism I'm not sure Greg has it any better than anybody else uh but the he's describing the version of it that's the worst problem is when discrimination is backed up by power structures can we agree to add in the focused group listening sessions wording okay you know I

129think the focus group sounds good I'm still strongly opposed to the the member's color I mean just I I don't think we're operating by consensus in this case unfortunately um I would prefer to leave I would I would like the whole the whole every all the words on there without the period in the middle uh if we're going to have that option I think we need to focus on people of color at this point why why can't we focus on everybody because as I just said and as we've said several times David the people who we need to hear from the most are the people who have been on the outs and the power and the ability to influence the system around them we can hear from uh if we can hear from any such

130group I don't think it uh we could we could focus on anybody who's experienced a lack of power but I think at the starting point here to get started on this process we have to focus at first on the people and minority groups who have historically and consistently in the world I don't think it's just an American problem that's where I agree with you in the world who have been left out of opportunity I am a capitalist through and through but capitalism only works for justice when people can start at the same starting line and we are not doing that so I'm not a socialist I do not excuse me of that this is necessary for capitalism to work the way it's supposed to that people can start at the same place when they're born

131nobody should be born and left in a hole and right now the evidence is clear that other of the groups that we can identify people of color are ones that are lit are starting behind and as no follow them they were born into a situation where they had disadvantages for economic and historical reasons and that's why we have to start with people of color and I'll say that to any group who wants to challenge me on it that I'm some kind of anti-wise white racist that's ridiculous so I I'm just going to keep talking about it Ron I'm but I hear some I like Subs I don't so if a a black young man is born in Lake Oswego into a family of money is hit a disadvantage okay we're talking we we again we're

132not going to be able to do this at the individual level and get it done so we have to talk about groups where we have statistical evidence for the groups and that's why I'm talking to you about bell curves and uh the idea that the group as a whole is what we're going to have to be able to deal with to get this done so you're right uh there might be a black family we're wealthy who are not at disadvantage we'll find out when we talk to him but if we don't invite them in groups that they can be comfortable speaking we're not going to hear what we need to hear I have to agree about the comfortable speaking part I've said that five times I really agree with that guys but you guys you

133know this is something that's been out there for years right now we're going through this this phase and it's a silly way of saying it but for the last number of years many many years this Society and you guys are all parents for the most part we have been everybody gets a ribbon Society our kids have gotten Dave I advise you not to go there you are about to you're about to offend a whole bunch of people as if getting ribbons is something that's going on here it's true I want to bring us back to the language I we I all of these discussions are are great in their own ways and really illustrate that there's a lot of action steps we could be taking as a board over the coming year to really start

134having these conversations and education and I will speak only for myself Ron I agree with you by taking out the period in the parentheses and I'd like to get a we know where Dave and Brian stand on this I don't know where Rebecca Bob or Inez are this is Rebecca I agree with Ron and Brandy I feel we need to to reach out to this this minority group specifically to hear what they've experienced I feel we hear from the white majority group and that they're more able to to come to board meetings and speak freely and we need to to give the opportunity to the minority group the people of color I mean that's where I stand I think we should take out the period and the parentheses and leave it as it is but

135when's the last time you sent back Rebecca and talked to the so-called white kids about this Dave I really I I don't know at that point I haven't heard from Bob yeah I don't want to cut you off Dave and these are good discussion points but I I we really need to not focus on necessarily the minutia of every single thing because we don't know what it's going to be yet right we haven't started on this and I'm just trying to get a consensus on language at this point I know Brandi and I I want to hear from every kid I've said that in my statement I say that today over and over and over you guys don't seem to listen to me that I want to hear from every Brown kid every black kid

136every boy every girl I want to hear from every white kid I want to hear from every kid I've said it over and over but you guys don't seem to hear that you think I just keep coming back and I'm inherently you know racist and and when we talk about all this stuff there's a white supremacist and everything and I'm not I know nobody nobody nobody said your races in this conversation Dave and I'm sorry if you're feeling that way that is certainly not the intent the intent is just to clearly Define what our first action sort of stuff will be in this goal that's it and why can't we talk to you know everybody in groups I want to hear I think Bob was next to to speak about this and after that I

137need another break I can't with this yeah I need another break too I'm getting really upset yeah I would suggest one thing Dave that's a struggle for me right now is you're putting up a lot of what are called straw man arguments you know an argument that's not been made by somebody uh but you're putting it up so you can tear it down and and work at that rather than what folks have said you know in this meeting I have not heard anyone call you a racist so asking us to defend uh why we called you a racist is putting up a straw man and making me go into a corner that I never went into and don't have any desire to be into um so I would ask you to just be real careful

138about conflating what you may have heard from the community and what you're actually Hearing in this meeting and the people you're talking to right now um you know I would agree with what folks are saying I would um take out the uh what I originally said and leave it with students families and staff members of color okay thank you Bob Greg I know you got all that um let's see let's take a 10 minute break is that going to be enough for people or should we do 15. 10 15 10. 335 [Music] right here foreign okay foreign looks like we're missing just a few members so we'll give it another couple minutes also thank you Greg for answering and addressing the um the Q a section I have seen everybody's um comments and questions but

139um purposely not addressing them in this meeting but encourage everybody to email um the board email address that Greg has put out and thank you all for coming today too do we have a lot of people there yeah let's see right now we're up to 31 oh so we have 22 attendees goodness wow great thank you very much for attending spending your Saturday with us record shattering board retreat attendance I thought that the one we had last two three weeks ago was a great move in the right direction but yeah 22 is awesome I still say we should be selling ads for the school district a little income coming in all right let's give Dave another couple minutes um have they've been sending in questions uh yeah there's been a few there's been uh maybe

140nine if I'm looking at this correctly but Greg's been really good doing a really good job of um answering or directing to an answer okay thank you thank you so much Greg also he gets a gold star for all the the minutes he typed up from Thursday night meeting to be in the packet on Friday yeah that was really appreciated and I just want to say again I'm not capturing the comments from this meeting there's no way to do that and share screen and keep up so I just want to be clear that those those will not be in the minutes for this meeting is it still screen sharing yes yes foreign what I believe was a furlough day am I correct Greg uh yesterday yes yeah I was I emailed Greg and within like

141two minutes he got back to me and I was like all right you got to stop working because we'll see as I sent him more things to think about or do so I don't know if Dave is going to come back but I want to be respectful of everybody's time can we just get started again yeah sorry just one second I just got a call just from my kids okay sorry I apologize about that yeah I agree let's go and get started and okay number two uh board development and education focused on individual and group growth um is Joe with us Joe foreign a quick just a couple of quick notes I put on underneath this um that we can maybe discuss oh shoot sorry my screen's going um okay so under board development education

142focus on individual group growth one bullet I had said examples could include but are not limited to Shared reading lists speakers and training for the board uh the other sorry I'm gonna see I'll wait for Greg to catch up okay and then the second bullet was conduct an equity audit slash assessment to collect and analyze information in order to determine the extent to which our district is Equitable to each member of the community and I think Brian this speaks to kind of what you were talking about earlier in the meeting about really looking at that data in a different way and questioning it a little bit in a different way extend our data yeah yeah and honestly I don't maybe Joe you can speak to how we would even go about this but is there

143some way to Commission you know at some University or something to do an analysis of this District's data that you know to get um all of the different intersectional factors accounted for so that we actually know what the achievement Gap based on race in the district is how would we go about that you want to control for other variables right yes I mean yeah so we can uh certainly explore we've actually actually had those conversations um with some universities around us to talk about those kinds of things I mean there are decades and Decades of national studies who have all done that so it's it's not like a methodology would be it would be hard for them to determine because all of those continually show the the same thing so we could certainly commission someone

144to go through and do um some controlled research of certain areas of um of the data we have the stuff that stays the most consistent we have a few years of consistent data unfortunately most of it comes from um our state assessments because that's the most consistent data we have for a certain period of time um because of course those tests have changed as well but we can certainly find out from some more conversations with University folks if they would do that and do we have data um that we could also do for things like discipline and for no grades make sense to do Maybe uh yeah we have of course the discipline data all the stuff that we have in our data systems and and yeah I'd I would have to make sure that

145one of our challenges of course is that is that we have not I think historically not everybody has put in their discipline data in the same way I think it's one of our big challenges um just from a data perspective which is something we actually have been working on to uh to have consistent definitions that's something we worked on um in the summer of last year and coming into this fall to have our student parent handbooks uh reflect a consistent discipline policy and procedure and then we would also uh report them in the same way that was one of the inconsistencies from our past is that they're they're measured in different ways or at least they're said in different ways or put into different categories and so you don't have the same kind of level

146of that so there is some disparate data depending upon the year and the school and things like that but that's that's why we've worked on that recently but yes that's all those things would go into it grades are a little more challenging because they're uh sometimes arbitrary sometimes I mean they're totally different by every single teacher and so those are those are harder to use as a as a standardized measure sure one thing and when we're talking about data and this kind of cuts across several several of our goals one thing which I would love to see us have staff start working on is some sort of a data portal in on our district website you know where anybody can come and kind of see what the data that we're tracking is you know I

147understand we need to be careful about you know that it can't be personally identifiable but you know um one of the I'm a I'm a big believer that data should always be open as much as possible and I I would love to see us find ways to make more more data more accessible to folks on our website and that would help us with you know our work around Equity would help us with our work around you know overall learning goals safety you know I think that could be uh beneficial in a lot of ways okay are there any does any board members have any suggestions for language around number two I would like to see something of like what um the assistant principal from um Edward suggested and um some training for the board that

148we we seem to at times be talking um past one another and if we can get um training on on anti-racism or culturally um opening ourselves to to the same language that would be worthwhile I think Rebecca can I read you write what we have right now because I know I don't know it's I I got a little teeny glimpse of what it's like to be Rebecca in our policy committee meetings because it goes so quickly and I'm trying to keep up visually and it is all but impossible at times and it's very frustrating so Rebecca I want to make sure you know the language we're speaking of as we go on this um so this is number two commit to becoming an anti-racist board for development and education focused on individual and group growth

149examples could include a reading list speakers and other training options okay does that Encompass what you're thinking about yeah that does thank you okay any other thoughts I would wanted to specifically say training around what an equity lens would look like and so we have a a same Baseline of terms we're using or same on Baseline of understanding because the part of the problem throughout this retreat has been that we don't understand words the same way who [Music] how do we how do we pick who does this training because a few years ago we did this in the school district at a tremendous expense at Shannon Valley Middle School and it was very one-sided in its look at things there's some good things that happened in there there are some tough things that happened in

150there so how do we go about picking that who are the the reading list of speakers so that's a great question Dave and I have as we've kind of started in this work a little bit I've been sort of compiling a list in my head people to reach out to when it's time for us to start on some of these specific like speaker and training things um I think we potentially could have a good resource in um Bryce Cofield he was the speaker on Thursday night from George Fox I don't remember the exact Department that he said he worked in Ron I don't know if you know but it was something um I say you worked in the cultural center then the cultural exchange what kind of like Intercultural Library I should know this uh

151culture isn't his title sorry to put you on the spot I don't know sorry so I think reaching out to George Fox could be a great place to start I know they also have a fairly active um Peace Department I think David has given us a lot of resources he could be somebody who could have some potential networking connections and also I think Joe he's done some of this work in Lake Oswego and in the past and has a connection right in his own home to somebody who deals with um equity in an educational setting so those are my thoughts so far to say that that wouldn't change or evolve I would assuming this and this would have some connections to her work as well possibly I do and I can provide those to you

152Brandy foreign director of the Intercultural Resource Center at George Fox Intercultural Resource Center that was 20 syllables I got two of them right cultural yeah so um I haven't that's where I'm at on that so far okay are there other uh wording issues on number two that we would like to talk about okay let's move on to number three create an equity lens to be used as a tool and board decisions foreign [Music] Joe's little description was very helpful to me uh already and uh I don't know that I have anything else to add uh since he has a that's a fairly specific concept of what he's talking about there okay uh number four update and extend our data on variable outcomes rates ethnicity Etc conduct an equity audit assessment to collect and analyze information

153in order to determine the extent to which our district is Equitable to each member of the community their suggestions for wording or additions to that I guess I'm a little thrown off by the each member of the community part would it be better to just end after Equitable or each student or we're looking at student data right I'm focused on students yes that's what concerns me on that I mean it's you know for their an objection to changing it to each student well it depends upon what your what I guess what you're asking um so it does say variable outcomes so if we're talking about specifically about outcomes and that's achievement is an outcome um if you'd like to know about uh Equitable access that may be larger for the community you know we we

154do some things like we translate each document that goes out as a for instance that is attempting to create some equity and access um and so I it really is if you're asking only about extending the data on variable outcomes uh then that's specific to student achievements and that's okay then I would actually agree with Brian that you would that you would take the it would be each you know member of our student body or just each student but if you're asking a broader question about Equity of access to all of the services that we provide that would be a different question well I do want one that's about students and so but I don't mind it you know obviously it makes sense if to to make sure that the community you want to access

155the uh what we do that we pay some attention to that I I prefer that with a separate point because I don't want to lose the focus on students can you Hey Joe can you give some examples of what some of those other things that we do for members of the community are that we would look at potentially disparities on just so I like I'm having a hard time understanding uh what we're referring to there sure so um which ways do we how do we set up as a for instance meetings for uh families and parents in the evening and what do we consider on those what do we make what kind of meeting parameters we set up barriers to come as of for instance do we offer child care and snacks to each one

156of the meetings because that's something that that broadens that that ability for people to come and to engage um do we provide uh interpreters do we provide audio transcripts do we uh make it easily accessible for folks to know where to pick up lunches as a for instance you know how do we get the messaging out is it paper is it electronic is it email is it WhatsApp is it text um you know are we keeping track of all of our modes of communication to make sure we're we're reaching each Community within the community equitably so that's that's the the probably the broader part of it you know what what what ways do we engage different segments of our community because they do actually require you can't do it equally you have to do it

157differently and equitably to reach members of our community within the community and so that was that was my question is is this the broader question about how we as a district um are intentionally creating access points and although under number four this is specific into Ron's point this is about um about student outcome because achievement is only outcome really that process so that's I guess that's what that's some of the things I would think about well I was thinking about outcomes in terms of other things we collect data on like uh discipline and bullying and harassment cases or whatever else we could date on but that's all again again I was all focusing primarily on students at this point I I think it's worth having a separate point on the other parts of our interaction

158with the community I I would agree chiefly because I don't think we have a lot of data on those other things so that's more of a discussion maybe you know under number one maybe unless I'm missing that we do have data on that stuff that you mentioned Joe I mean do we have any data on that stuff I'm not sure we could call it data but we do you know we ask questions of people but we do it in a survey um again survey is a very culturally focused thing they may not reach everyone that we want to reach um I think we could probably make a list of the ways that we try to be Equitable but I think um uh we would have to do some uh deeper questioning of our communities who

159we don't serve as well to find out what other ways are we not um getting the message to them how are we not including them how do we include them better or more right so we have we have our latinx group that meets um well was meeting you know about monthly and so that group had begun to grow a bit but we know there are far more at 20 there are a thousand latinx kids in our in our school so um how are we reaching out to reach that 20 because we don't have 20 of the people responding two-hour survey who are necessarily who would um who would identify as latinx so you know how do we how do we I think that the it'll be data we would have to begin collecting based upon

160metrics we would decide these are the metrics we want to hear from right we'd say here are the metrics done let's find some we'll start to collect whatever that data looks like and we have some information of course again from surveys and those kinds of things we have that information but beyond that we don't have a lot of data my concern too I think it is certainly valid and important data to look at Beyond just the students and the in to look specifically to access but I am a little concerned that you know this is one of our goals for one school year and I would be hesitant to add more um data collection onto it at this point I think it's certainly something that we should look into building upon and continuing um but

161I'm if I'm just being honest thinking about our goals strictly for the next coming school year I think it might be too much so are you think we should just change that to student and call it a day that's fine from my perspective at this point like I said it's not a this is certainly not a stopping point this is just a starting point sure is anybody not comfortable with doing that foreign I'm gonna let you speak to number five which is research other districts well uh I was looking for something else and I ran across North Clackamas uh which claims in their on their web page that they've not only improved graduation rates overall to the high 80s that they've almost eliminated most of the achievement gaps I want to know about that and

162uh what I know so far is what I just told you not much uh but it occurred to me that there may be a and that's just right nearby there may be other districts whom we could go visit our at least virtually and say what's going on here how are you doing this and how do you know you're not I mean somebody's not just fudging data like the schools and in DC and Atlanta or someplace where they were just fudging their data and uh and so I mean that's right there and I mean I'm I'm kind of I gotta watch myself I can't volunteer for everything because I don't know that I will be unemployed the whole this the whole school year but if I got nothing better to do I'd be willing to go

163do on do tours of these places Ron it's totally coincidental but I actually spoke with the North Clackamas chair this morning and she kind of alluded a little to it and she said the first it's been a multi-year board um and the first two or three years were pretty pretty uncomfortable and difficult but she felt like they were finally making some progress on it so I think they'd be more than willing to speak with other people about it yeah do you like what Greg has captured on there uh yeah uh although it doesn't have to be just achievement Gap but that's the one I was looking at most yes um to reduce disparities in what I would say does anyone have any ideas or suggestions around that language I like it I liked it too

164uh captures a larger foreign so number six improve Fair Fair start for each student Ron this was one of yours as well although we did talk about a little bit does anybody have uh language suggestions around that I I have a suggestion around the same sort of area um and I I can't take credit for this idea because this I believe was originally raised in one of our meetings by Bob but it's the idea of you know some of our students who have specialized needs we give them individual education plans and why don't we do that for every student and have an education plan that follows that individual student through their entire educational career and is updated and allows because it feels sometimes like uh there's a little bit of a missed opportunity in the

165handoff between grades and we certainly see that like the Middle School drop-off right um and that might help to alleviate some of those uh problems that we see I was thinking of fair starts specifically only for sort of like Pre-K but I could be off in that assumption Ron what was your kind of intent it's it's a little bit fuzzy I have to admit uh Pre-K is a is a natural way of thinking about it but really our schools you know there's no way that I think we can expect them all to arrive at the starting line at the same time uh so we're gonna have to expect to have ongoing efforts for those who arrived at the starting line behind and um so I don't know it's just Pre-K a fair start doesn't catch

166all that either so Dad I was certainly not the way I was thinking about it I think Ron what I interpreted from what you said is people are starting at different at different areas which is what is increasing those achievement gaps or opportunity gaps right um and I think one way to improve that is by allocating the proper resources to make this happen um depending on where each student is starting yeah I agree and so uh it'd be nice if we could get them to the starting line in the same place but we're not going to make it and so how can we help ongoing ways and ongoing ways to get that start to turn out to have been fair at some point actually I think it has said it better than I did but

167that's what I'm that's what I'm driving at so what do you see not just humor on or even as the board what does the board see as uh sort of action items within that or or measurable is that something we want to kind of have on here so that it's on our mind throughout the year or is it something that we want to actually have uh more information on or action on well and the ideal in the ideal World we'd have people even maybe I don't know who uh some kind of Task Force pay attention to this issue and making recommendations to us about what we need to do I don't have I haven't research this enough to know what the what what would be the general tools and which ones apply to us I

168don't know that so I don't have any specifics unfortunately which would make this a lot better but I don't can somebody give me an example of how that would look for a student well in my uninformed view it would be a wall one level I mean if we can't reach into the Pre-K realm which I don't know we don't have the money for that but if uh if if we identify some kind of initial assessment uh that we have groups of students who are um coming in without the reading readiness that other students have we take those non-reading Readiness students and I don't know this has to be uh based on the ethnicity it has to be on how they got to the starting line we take these non-reading ready students and we we put

169that extra work into them until they caught up with the reading level I mean that would be an example some of that kind of stuff already goes on I know and I just want us to be creative about trying to identify the ways that people don't arrive at the starting line equally and addressing every place where people were behind foreign I remember several months ago I brought that up and kind of got shot down maybe I didn't say it the right way but you know I agree when a kid comes in if they can't um so they can't uh their English skills are super low and I was saying you know overload their schedule a little bit so they can get caught up quicker because that's such a key component is that what you're saying

170well that might be one salute that might be one solution I don't like I said mostly I'm I'm just wanting us to make this an important point of focus I don't really have specifics that's that sounds like a it could be a possibility I don't know I mean this is where we were talking about the reimagining education and if we really want to be um an anti-racist board changing our resources and our funds in a way that um would make it a more fair start or put people on a similar line in terms of getting anywhere in their education is it isn't that what we were talking about and I know that Joe you mentioned a little bit of what that would look like um in terms of practical things right and that's you know

171that's uh it depends upon I'm I'm sort of assuming that when we're talking about um The Fair start that we're talking about our youngest students coming in and so there are certainly ways for us to look at um you know how we fund what the number of students are at different levels um you know do you want to look at smaller numbers of kids at kindergarten as a for instance and then clustering students who need certain kind of supports and then adding adult support to that so you have you know more than one adult working with the smaller group so that's certainly um also an equity lens for us to consider you know what what uh in what ways can we help students who are struggling to at the beginning yeah the way I'm potentially

172picturing this and correct me if I'm wrong on this but you know if if we're able to get to a point during this coming school year where we can put on our agenda you know maybe a parenthesis after the agenda item and say goal one or goal one one a or whatever just so that we're kind of as a board constantly being reminded of what does this report fit in why why are we having this report and so under this specific number six the Fair start for students I'm already imagining that there's several reports that we get traditionally throughout the year that will help inform us on the work around that goal and again I think this is a starting point that we could build off of as it evolves am I off on this

173that sounds good to me sounds good okay is that Brandy would it be like if you like what Brian said earlier um so Amir are we just talking about our kids in kindergarten here or first grade or second grade or I mean no I think it would I think like what Joe said hunger students especially at first but but necessarily I think um depending on what the report was or what the information that we were getting was it may focus on difference ages or brackets or groups of students like if Anne comes and gives gives us a presentation on inclusion we've done IEPs but I I don't think it would be just kindergarteners that's not what I'm thinking anyway I don't know yeah I was thinking like you know for me like what Brian was

174saying too about the like if you think it's fair start you're kind of going okay like Ron said everybody's going to come to that starting line but if we had a way where we had a student plan you know where we're looking at every child coming through and then all of a sudden you know they're doing let's say grade level work until fourth grade then all of a sudden their math skills go south um that that would be a you know flag so we could help that that that child out and the family out to to get them back on track where they're at and what I've seen at the high school almost every time when kids have been at grade level and then they they drop low you know their grades start to dip

175and everything I know at the high school doesn't have a good job about catching those kids quick enough and there's so many different reasons it could be a family issue it could be a uh it could be that they're just not working very hard it could be the friend group they're in it could be you know a lot of different factors but we don't catch that soon enough so I just think going back to Brian's statement that fair start could almost go all the way through if we were just kind of assessing those kids uh all the way we could catch them before they fall too far okay good point do is there is there more discussion around the the actual wording of number six also Rebecca do you need me to read it at

176this point no I'm good thank you so it looks like there's question marks around let's see students come to the district at different starting points allocate resources to help students gain more Equitable starting points but do we want resource accesses or access or the quote of help every student have what is needed to meet educational standards there's a few different resource options there foreign I thought I had something and it's not going to come out address the needs of students to help them gain more Equitable starting points I don't know something like that I don't have specifics in mind sometimes it'd be resources well obviously everything has something to do something to do with resources sometimes it's resources sometimes it might be just a different program available or something you know I mean I think

177the the important that it's our principle that we want to make sure each student is starting off at a fair place where they're at you know the level they need to be in order to succeed and of course that takes resources and you know Fair access and all that all that is wrapped into it I don't think we need those individual components we just need to say what the goal is in my view on it I generally agree with that Kim okay Ron not only are you the wordsmithing guru of the group at this point but this was also your goal so I'm really gonna I want you to I wanted to Encompass what your original sort of thoughts were and after hearing the board's input so my goal is for everybody to forget it

178was my goal um and if it oh I was about to say something really snarky if it's badly written maybe they'd forget ah see how terrible um and I'm not saying it's badly written I'm in this the depot can you just let me get out of this and all right I'm not I'm not upset I think it's fine uh one of the any of these options are fine what the board thinks okay foreign I would be fine with taking away the bracket before students and adding a period after starting points that's fine too I like it it's okay everyone's okay if we okay right uh okay number seven create an individual education plan for every student in Newburgh Public Schools I don't know if that belongs under this specific goal maybe more under the learning

179goal that's just my initial thought well this is one really that covers a lot of territory so you know when we talk about reimagining education this this it could be a real key element of that I I just I love the idea I think it's a great idea you know I like calling it a personalized learning plan rather than an individual education plan because that has a legal definition but I I want us to be real clear that that one bullet point is a huge undertaking um and would even with a lot of effort would probably be a multi-year thing to it to enact um I think it's worth pursuing but I think that's something where we would need to be really conscientious as a board that that's something we want to ask staff to

180put time into because that's a huge uh request them to put onto our staff so do we want to let Joe speak to obviously there are a lot of challenges it's a that's a big big ask and I get that uh and I I think everyone understands that but joke do you want to speak to the challenges around that and how how that could potentially come to being um I can just say it simply we won't be able to make that happen this year uh it's just not with everything we have going on right now um you know among the the coveted stuff that's happening and figuring out how to do a hybridized system and or not or an in-person or a distance learning thing we just frankly won't have the capacity to do something

181like that because that really that truly is um a massive undertaking it's not just keeping track of stuff underneath the little folder it's a it's a pretty significant undertaking and there are lots of parts to it so um it's not a goal that I can achieve for next year in any way shape or form uh even if it's not achievable in this year I mean it's something that we could certainly start the process on isn't it uh I guess it would depend on what I'm not sure what the goal of a personalized learning plan is I mean that's that's not the we've not had enough of that conversation about what what it is that you're trying to achieve through that so that would be different than um the grading and tracking systems for we how

182we see students do and the work that teachers do when they finish a grade and they come together and they try to uh to balance class notes and gets kids forward and bring them stuff so I'm not sure what that what the additional goals of this personalized learning plan would be well how about this for a student that's on IEP what is the goal of the IEP [Music] they're all different right depending on what the IEP is depending on the disability right so IEPs have uh goals that are specifically written um to address um barriers that are presented by a very specific list of disabilities and so those things are then they could be uh emotional goals Behavior goals they can be academic goals and so those kinds of uh the things that are specifically

183targeted working on um in a very narrow definition and it's a pretty uh significant process that brings in lots of Staff members so it's also as Bob mentioned a part of the legal requirement for students who are identified for special education well I would think the goal would be to um for each student at the individual student level to identify the challenges and barriers to learning for that individual student okay yeah that would be uh that would be great I think that there's uh there's got to be a recognition of the amount of time and energy that IEPs as a specific thing take and how many people are involved in those things you know you'll have anywhere from three to seven staff members or more who are part of it um and so it's not

184part of our if we want to look forward into doing that then we're going to have to look at restructuring our week and uh how much time we spend with students and how much time we spend with this kind of work because this is a fairly significant it's not a bad idea I want to be clear about that I I there are lots of merits to it but I think we also have to be cognizant of the the workload of doing that and then what does that look like for the amount of time that we spend serving students and then the amount of time we spend um serving our documentation and our work on those things I mean the part of this idea that attracted me was not that we would do an IEP for

185everybody because I knew the staff with that would just like triple our staff requirements right uh but is there some kind of could we develop some kind of a lower Tech no no lower intensity lower intensity model that would use for students and I know some of that kind of stuff kind of already goes on and maybe this is a an ask for an improvement on stuff uh so for me the the value given this year this is not the best time to be doing this but the value for this is to just have it on the list you know things we'd like to pay attention to at some point is there some way to enrich our individualized planning for students yeah you know for me the this is something which I've thought about for

186a long time but is still vague on you know I couldn't give you a good definition uh of what a personalized learning plan was so seeing it in here as a goal for this year that as we have it here that's way too big way too ambitious even if that was the only thing we put on there um you know like like Ron said keeping it as a discussion as something we think about and kind of dwell on what what could that look like what should that look like um but having it as a goal to me feels uh distractingly ambitious well what if we changed it to begin the work of thinking about and designing a system whereby we provide a personalized learning plan for every student uh you know I I totally get

187that we're not going to be there at the end of the school year I get that um but we have to start somewhere if we think it's a good idea if we think that this could greatly impact student achievement and I do uh why not at least start on it foreign for learning but I I agree with Brandy um which goalie okay can we make it number three under B sure okay okay all right can we move on to B we've got 45-ish minutes I think we can do it okay be learning number one community outreach regarding calendar and start times form an ad hoc committee to study long-term changes to start time and calendar changes any thoughts on the wording or the goal all right so I I think we've been playing around with

188calendar changes because of covid cover driven catalogy calendar changes anyway uh so how much more is this than that we're already doing I think that's a question for Joe well we already talked about putting together an ad hoc committee for uh changes to the start time of course everything kind of went out the window but we still talked about doing that as we look forward to the following school year 20 hours so we want to make sure we do that uh and then you know we could still talk about calendar changes you know there has been some discussion among the board and the community about looking at a different kind of calendar for us to consider just whether that's year round whether that's partially year-round whether that's having two split up breaks instead of one

189longer break so um but yeah that's I mean that's something I think we need to get that because if we're going to make those changes if we were going to make a change as a for instance two start times General start times four levels of school um you know we need to have that probably finalized by I don't know December before we all head off to a little bit of break because we have to give our community enough time to adjust you know their lives in whatever situation they're in and thinking about that kind of stuff and we want to have plenty of kind of public input during that fall even though it'll be a little bit hairy anyway with just how we're running school but I think it would be important for us to

190I mean that's something that we've talked about so I don't think it's a problem for us to work on yeah you know I'm a big believer that anytime we're going to make a significant change in how we operate our schools we need to have a lot of community input you know because this is one where you know I've been clear and I'll be really clear I would love to see us go to some sort of a year-round schooling system I really believe that our summers off is uh Antiquated holdover from a whole different era that really doesn't serve us well today but that's that's my opinion I I would want to make sure that the community felt like that suited their needs and having this committee look at that would be a good way to

191start getting that discussion going to see if that is something that would be would be helpful to the Newberg community so I guess my question would be what are the qualities that we want this committee to consider when they're making this decision I think that goes back when we had this conversation a while back um I believe it was Bob who brought it up that the committee once formed would need to create specific sort of guidelines you know whether that's a timeline or specific areas that they're looking into and you know as a board when that committee's formed I think it's appropriate to give some guidance but also I think it's important to balance it and let the committee um form some of their own sort of Direction sure right answer your question yeah uh

192but I guess um that guidance is where what I'm what I'm trying to get at with my questions what is the guidance that we're giving this committee as far as what it is we want them to come back to us with what we want that to be based on um in their process I think it would be wise to put some detail into that yeah I'm sorry go ahead Bob no go ahead I was going to say when we originally talked about this it was specific to changing the start times at the high school with the understanding that has an impact with all the other schools so changing the start times of our schools um you know it's adding in the long-term changes to the school calendar that kind of sped up uh when we

193went to the hybrid model and covid and looking at changes you know this group I don't see them it wouldn't be helpful to have them try and have input onto this coming school year but now that things have been disrupted it just seemed like a an advantageous time to really take a look at school calendars and just come back to us with a with their recommendation and what Brandi was saying we we have not used committees um outside committees ad hoc committees community members very much as a board uh in my time and so it's something which I really want us to do more of but I also really believe that because we haven't done it we don't have a structure for it we don't have kind of group Norms established so I really think

194that the Committees that we you know this one being the first whatever other committees have a real defined Charter you know what what they're and I see that coming from them after we've given them the broad uh broad strokes but uh a timeline uh who they're going to be who the members should be um so that we're getting a cross-section um my concern is that if we just say hey let's get a committee we'll call the names that are top of the list and we'll get the kind of the people who are you know very valuable very uh heavily involved in the community but um are the kind of go-to folks who would be the first up on something like this I'd rather see us get a much broader swath of folks that um haven't

195had a voice at the table before I think it's really so Bob to your point I'm sorry Brandy one more time go ahead just quickly and I I think both to Bob and to Brian's points um you have to give some clear instruction about what you're asking them to bring back to you um I've done several of these in the past and so I've got some ideas around some structural things that will help you you know some simple things like do you want is there a limit to how much money it can cost the district to move to something else right so you can set some limits like that um you can set the limit on the amount of time when you want them to bring back the report you can say here are the

196things we need to hear from you so you can get back so you don't send them off into the Hinterlands to work on something and they come back with something that doesn't meet the the goals that you have as a board so the information goals that you need so yeah it's really important to certainly give them those uh those pre-structures ahead of time and here's your charger here's what we're expecting to see and here's the timeline and here are some of the parameters that we that we won't do and that can even include how do you choose your ad hoc committee so the admin committee should include versus from and then those parameters so they know they're the wording of that one thing to add to that okay um and as I said a long

197time ago uh Bob said a long time ago you know we've had this discussion a few different times um it could be an opportunity since we do need to be slow on this with especially not with kova and everything we have a little bit more time how's how is this going this this going to look other than just times I mean could we be looking at a different way we do school not just because of covid but maybe better systems in place that would improve our our work with kids so we're still operating on the same system we basically did when we were all in school you know that said uh 7 30 to 8 to 2 30 to three type of model to go through this as a Ryan you know we could kind

198of at least start the basics of this come back to the the boredom and just kind of get some some stuff down kind of loosely and then we could have Joe look at it what he was hit but I mean school could look different down the road when we go to make this time plan and maybe that's a good thing yeah I agree I think Bob or no sorry Dave Craig if I'm wrong I think that some of what you just touched on actually leads us really well into number two under this goal of what will this next year sort of look like and of course we don't necessarily know although guidelines are coming out and the closer we get the more it feels like a model is being constructed um but I hear what

199you're saying about yeah thinking about the entire system looking different uh do uh before we move on from number one do we want to try and record some of our thoughts around what we want them to come back with and I'll just throw out an example like I want them to look at is what the scientific research says around uh you know the brain at that age and what is best for the the child so I think we're going to have to have a board resolution in a regular meeting to create this commit this ad hoc committee and I think that would be a good time to discuss it since we still have quite a bit to do and we're running out of time here that's what I would say that's fine we can we

200can cut off to another day I suppose yeah okay uh so number two was pretty vague uh we hybrid model hybrid learning model uh how do we measure success and health of the system what are we using to measure that success how do we support the district and this work and how do we track and measure Equity programs reaching underserved populations so that's a lot a lot of questions I don't know if anybody has any answers or Clarity on any of those points sounds to me like it sounds to me like the goal here is for the board to uh carefully assess the hybrid learning model on a variety of issues including whether it works as a learning experience and access and equity but the goal is that the board um closely evaluate or something

201the hybrid learning model isn't that correct and the rest of these are questions about how we do that maybe I'm misunderstanding no I would agree with that yeah are you thinking it would be different than how we analyze the current systems performance uh well maybe there's maybe we focus on I mean it's because it's a specific thing for this year we don't know how much of it's going to endure so you so I think it would have somewhat different dimensions than just the routine it's kind of on top of the routine in a sense if that makes sense if it does I'm just not sure what what we can do outside of what we normally do and I'm absolutely in favor of finding new ways to evaluate what we do one of the problems we

202have is that we we don't have enough information most of the time to make a good informed decision so I just don't know what that is right I agree and and I I think what I Envision is taking you know we're gonna have to take these things I don't have a time to get some of the details worked out I would like to have it listed as something we'd like to work on but I don't have the details worked out we would have to set a time probably in August sometime in a board meeting something like that to work out what we want to attract so they could be tracking it well well it's running it's so for the for the goal in here do we it would it be beneficial to leave these as

203questions so that we are thinking of them throughout the year or would that sort of counteract the point of a goal it's not quite pretty but I think it works and if you look at my desk this seems to be my operating system I I mean I think they would be good questions for us to keep in mind throughout the year as we are going through this hybrid model okay are there more thoughts or rewarding on number two okay and number three we definitely talked a lot about but is there anything else you want to add on anyone wants to add on convenient a study group to examine how a personally learning plan could be created for every student Wilson does [Laughter] okay can we move on to c bond Randy can I comment a

204little bit um it's been a long meeting and I'm emotionally exhausted my brain is fried I don't know that I can continue thinking about more goals I propose that we set up another meeting to talk about D and SC and D I can't even talk straight anymore um I'm just not effective right now if I can't think clearly for example we have a relatively short agenda maybe depending on how long Joe's report is on Tuesday could we finish it on Tuesday I'm comfortable with that is everyone else comfortable with that that would be my preference outside instead of scheduling another meeting we've been having a lot of meetings lately so I'd rather do it then um is Greg Greg's not on my screen but I'm assuming he's on here there he is yes Greg since

205the packet has already gone out if we add that will that uh how much will that affect your work will you have to just send out a new packet and when will we still be in compliance with public notification um we always make our agendas that we post uh generic that business items might include and you always have the right to do as you did today and change the agenda in the meeting so probably the I mean the absolute cleanest way would be to do what you just did now at the meeting Tuesday night and say we're adding to the agenda discussing C and D it's probably okay that we just did it now but it'd be good to probably do it again that night yeah I I think we have to make a motion

206that night to amend the agenda sure yeah we should be we should be fine okay I'm comfortable with that the board's comfortable with that yes yep okay thank you yeah I think it might have been on more than one person's mind yeah I'm just addressing my needs all right well with that we will end at 4 34 and we will continue the discussion on C and D again thank you board members of course for spending another four hours in service to our students and to all the participants who came and watch the process so thank you and I hope everybody has a really relaxing Sunday and a good rest of your weekend thank you thanks everybody