2026-03-12 Board of Education’s Teaching, Learning, and Enrollment Committee

001Good afternoon. This public meeting of the board of education's teaching, learning, and enrollment committee for March 12th, 2026 is called to order. Thank you all for being here. Today's agenda includes understanding the planning is done to ensure continuity of instruction for students when a large cohort of students are away for an extended period of time. and an overview of the growing great schools initiative. We're beginning first. We'll begin with introductions. I am Michelle Chase Miller. I live in zone 4 and I am the committee chair. >> I don't know which way we want to go. >> Let's go this way students. >> Uh my name is Mel Schuler. I go to Benson Polytechnic High School. Um, I'm a junior and I'm very excited to be here. >> Hi, my name is Eve. I go to

002Franklin High School and I'm also very excited to be here. >> I'm Christy Split. I'm a school board member that lives in Southwest Portland and I think we're all really excited to have students at our dis for the first time and for the rest of the school year. So, welcome Eve. >> I'm Virginia Lefort um school member. live in northeast Portland and excited to have um our students with us as well. >> Eddie Wong, board chair, just here to observe and partake. Thanks. >> Good afternoon. Uh Christina Howard, senior chief of academics. Welcome students. Thank you for being here. >> Kimberly Armstrong, superintendent. >> And Mary Kane, senior local counsel. Welcome, >> Director Chase Miller. We have some virtual board members. >> Oh, virtual board members. Would you like to introduce yourselves? Rosanne, it looks

003like Stephanie is talking, but we can't hear her. And we can't hear Patty either. >> Okay. Anyway, Patty Sullivan here just to observe. I know you've got a lot of interesting stuff to talk about. Thanks for being here, Patty. Director Sullivan. >> Thanks. >> Terry's working on it. >> Uh, Director Englesman, >> I wonder. >> Oh, there you go. We can hear you. >> Oh, good. Okay. Hi. I don't sure what that was. Um, hi Stephanie Englesman. I live in zone 6, southeast Portland. I am here to observe and get all the good information that's coming. >> Glad you both are here. Um, and really glad to have student representatives uh as part of this committee. Now, next we have public comment. Roseanne, do we have anyone signed up to speak? >> Yes, we do.

004>> Excellent. Uh, please make sure when you begin your comments that you clearly state your name and spell your last name. You'll have two minutes to speak. And we ask that once you hear the sound of the alarm, please wrap up your comments. We have Chris Kennedy and Ariana Aina. >> Hey, how's it going? >> How's it going? >> Uh, my name is Chris Kennedy. Uh, K ny. Uh I have been an educator and a coach in the community for more than 20 years. Uh I currently teach at Hosford Middle School and uh I'm currently the head coach of the Cleveland High School or Cleveland Middle School track program. Uh and so I'm coming today with a scenario that's happened on our track team. Um, a few years ago there was a reignment of schools

005and there were some kids that came from Crestston Elementary School and they came into our middle school and there was a very small sliver of kids that came in and uh when that happened one of the biggest things that I think is important is for kids to get community to build that community to build that relationship with the students with the teachers with other professionals in the building. I think that really allows them to just really kind of fit in and kind of find a sense of belonging. And I've always believed that sports is a huge part of that. It's a great way for kids, especially at a middle school level, to get experience and to push themselves and to strive to try new things even though they feel scared or worried about it. And

006the most important thing for them is that they have their friend group around them. Uh this year what has happened is that up until this point there has been some um exceptions put in for the small sliver of kids that got put into our uh middle school uh so that way they could do a hardship and they could still be on our track team. Uh and uh we have a very proud track team. Uh we're over 263 kids currently and so we just started our first week of practice. So for me, it's important for the kids that are in the school to be able to be there with their friends on the team. Um, in a in a scenario where we kind of set them up where it was a very small select few number

007of kids that were in our school. So when we had kids sign up for track, they were not able to sign up for our team. I personally was working with a couple of kids who you are in my math class and they're really, you know, they're they're historically underserved students of color and they they're they're not superstars. They just want to belong to something. And so I was extremely excited. Finally got mom on board. She was ready. We got the sports physical and then he goes to sign up and they said, "You have to go to Franklin." And he goes, "Well, I'm not doing that." And so he's not on the team anymore. And so I think there were scenarios in place that brought this about that I agree with and believe in. You know,

008there was lots of issues several years ago with other sports and I think unfortunately this has brought been brought into this community. So I just wanted to kind of share that with you. I didn't know if you guys understood that was happening. So I just feel like to us it's like the most important thing is to make sure the kids have great experiences and kind of build community within their own school, not at random schools where there's no other people that they know. So that's all I had. So I just want to give you >> perfect timing too. >> Thank you. >> Try again for Ariana Aa. >> She's got snacks. We'll see what happens. Okay. Is it ready for me to start? Okay. Wrote it out. So it's going to look performed or pre-written.

009Oh my god. Okay. All right. Sorry guys. >> She's welcome. >> This is just you know how it is. Or most most you might know how it is. Okay. Hi. My name is Ariana Aa. Um I'm a parent um of a first grader, not this one, but another one at Buckman Elementary. Um Buckman's the only elementary school in the Portland public school district uh that has an arts focus. Since 1989, arts education has been at the center of how our students learn, grow, and how they build confidence. Yep. Every week, Buckman students participate in visual arts, in dance, in library, um, and in music, and it sorry um, and that means that every single day children walk into a classroom and they're either performing or they're reading or they're expressing themselves. And these classes aren't

010extra. They are the foundation of our school identity. Buckman is also a title one school. So for many of our students, these classes are the only opportunity that they might have to learn an instrument um to paint or explore their creativity at depth. Um because of staffing cuts next year, our visual, our arts, music, and library educators are having their hours severely cut. Um and you know, I know what's happening at the district level, right? I'm not here to ask you for more money. Right now, um, our community has come together, some of us are here today, around a simple proposal that the student investment accounts funds that are already allocated to our schools um, be directed towards our arts teacher positions. We're limited currently in selecting from a really small number of the discretionary

011positions um that all use SIA funds, but it's not meeting our student needs and it's not what our parents want or what our teachers want. So, we're asking today that our ex existing SIA resources be allocated to directly support the funding of our arts teachers. I did have something I wanted to show you, but I of course left it in my other bag. Um, last week Oh, sorry about that. Okay. Last week, my daughter, she gave me a picture that she drew and she said to me, um, she held it up and she had said, "Mom, um, you know, if you paint your skin white, the ice won't get you." And I know that sounds like such a silly thing to say, right? And such a silly thing to think. Um, but art really does

012help us process the things that are happening in our world and in our homes. It's really, really important now more than ever um that we continue to allocate the resources that we have to protect that for our children. That's all I have. Thanks for dealing with the the kids stuff. Thank you. And um if you wanted to email us a photo of that picture, we would be happy to see it. >> Okay, great. Thank you. Um, those are all the people who signed up to speak, but we have a couple of people on the waiting list. Rosanne, do you know if those people are here? >> Um, I believe Brett Appleton is here. >> Hi. Okay. My name is Britt Appleton and I'm a parent at Rose City Park Elementary in Northeast Portland. I'm here

013today to speak about a staffing on assignment happening at my school that would eliminate our building's only black educator. Article 18.6.2.3 2.3 of the PAT contract specifically provides an exception to seniority based cuts if a transfer would decrease a building's percentage of historically underserved teachers to less than the percentage of historically underserved students. Per the district's synergy data from October 2025 at Rose City Park, 18% of our student body is historically underserved. By unassigning our sole black teacher, it would be widening our percentage of historically underserved teachers to zero. It would be reducing our percentage to zero and widening the diversity gap at our school from 14% to 18%. It's not okay for the district to discuss the Black Student Success Plan or the Center for Black Student Excellence while simultaneously allowing the removal of

014the representation that these plans require. Seniority and staffing decisions is a rule, but article 18.6 6.2.3 is the corrective lens for that rule. I'm asking this committee to direct HR to apply this exception immediately to Rose City Park and any other schools in a similar position. We have a rapidly growing community petition with signatures from parents who are concerned that their children are losing the only educator who reflects their heritage. Please don't let a budget crisis become an equity crisis at our school. Thank you. >> Thank you. Yeah, >> thank you all so much for your testimony. Our schools are facing some really hard things right now and uh I appreciate your advocacy and your voice on behalf of your school communities. Uh recently questions about the continuity of instruction for students have come up

015when discussing the policy of field trips, foreign travel, and other off-campus activities. Since the discussion was primarily focused on concerns that leaving would be disrupted for that learning would be disrupted for the students remaining at school, I asked for an overview of the considerations and planning that happens to ensure the continuity of instruction for students that do not travel. Dr. Howard, would you like to introduce this item? >> Sure. Thank you. Just uh Christina also problem. Um thank you, Director Tase Miller. Um I'd like to ask Chief of schools Dr. Isaac Cardona um to come up and share with you how we work with school teams to make sure learning is not disrupted for students when their peers are out of school for these extended experiences. >> Great. Thank you for having me. Sarah, >>

016are you projecting this? Sorry for the technical difficulties. Rene the presentation up for you unless can you see it right now? Okay. Well, I can begin talking while it's getting put up. So PPS recognizes that certain learning experiences such as dual language immersion capstone trips, outdoor school, and other extended field field experiences may involve groups of students being off campus for multiple days. During these periods, schools are expected to ensure continuity of instruction for students who remain at school. Site leaders or principles work with grade level teams to plan instructional coverage that maintains alignment to grade level learning goals and classroom routines. I'm going to show an example of this in a second. lead to the beginning. I can't present that. Thanks. >> Yep. All right. Sorry about that. So, schools carefully plan for extended

017learning experiences that take place off campus. Again, such as DLI uh camp capstone trips or outdoor school. Here's an example of an approval plan for a field trip. These are all done in advance and they're given to the senior director of schools to help ensure that there's continuity of instruction for students who remain at school while classmates are traveling. Schools coordinate staffing and classroom structures to ensure continued access to grade level instruction. These two boxes are forms that they fill out. One is work expectations for students who are on the trip and then one is the teaching expectations for students who are on campus while those lessons occur. The standards are the same for both of them. So students should have similar experiences whether off-campus or on campus with what they are learning. At the

018same time, we ensure that while students are on the trip, they have structured academic work aligned to district standards. And so they will say literally for each day that they're gone what they are doing, how it aligns to standards and the work that they are doing. Um some of these might be projects that they are completing. It might be learning that they're capturing and then presenting out as research reports. But in both ways, students are learning and they're engaged in the lessons. Oftentimes, field uh oftentimes extended field learning experiences occur by grade level or program, meaning the majority of students participate and only a small number, if any, remain back on campus. In these cases, schools plan staffing to ensure those students continue receiving appropriate instruction. This could be a substitute who is covering a

019class. Um, when I called a couple of principles just to ensure that I had the the right knowing of what each thing looks like, you know, you might see all Capstone students leaving and then a sub who might speak Mandarin remaining on campus for maybe the Mandarin courses. U, for most principles, it's the exact same sub every single day while students are off on their field excursion with a teacher. Um, sometimes it's also an assistant principal or a counselor who might be traveling. So, the instruction on campus actually remains the same. Um, when I was a K8 principal, for example, our sixth grade teachers took turns in the days they would go to outdoor school, so there was always someone on campus doing instruction. Their blocks might change, but for the most part, they were

020still receiving the same instruction while on campus. That's the bulk of the presentation, but again, uh, principles, educators, or the teachers, uh, put in a lot of work into planning for the field trip, and then this is approved over the course of a couple of months to ensure that there's continuity of instruction while students are gone or for the students who are remaining on campus. >> Awesome. Thank you. Uh, does anybody have any questions? >> Thank you. And thanks for putting this on the agenda. I appreciate it. This was some of my concern. Um, so I think you answered one of my questions in part. Um, and in situations where a class or program participates in a field trip, are substitute teachers ever hired to provide instruction for students who remain at school? It sounds

021like the answer to that is yes. >> And there are sometimes we might collapse courses like sections. When I was a kid principal, I just had maybe someone teach a double math block for that day and the next day a double science block if one of those teachers was gone to outdoor school on one of the days. So most times it's a substitute. Sometimes they may might configure the school day in a different different way. >> So for something like outdoor school, that's a program that's offered to every student in the district. When we have a colllocated program like our DLI programs, are there ever I don't understand and this I know it works differently than it used to when the complaints were originally filed several years ago. Are there um ever teachers that travel

022and substitutes that are hired to cover the classes and the students that remain on site? >> Yes. >> Who funds that? >> Uh the we would at the school level where >> the school level. So the so the groups that are traveling do not fund the substitute that would be needed. >> No. When a teacher when a teacher is out, we can get substitutes. And so oftent times the school just log in like the days the hours that they would need. It could be a half day sub or a full day sub. But is it the typical system for requesting those? >> Okay, great. Um that's my question. >> I also answer the last year we had a question like that too and I think the total dollar amount that PPS paid was $0 because

023the parent groups fundraised and paid for all the substitutes and the uh substitute administrator. >> Great. Thank you all. Um, >> can I Oh, sorry. Sorry. >> Go ahead, director. >> Can I Thank you. Can I follow up to Chair Wong's question? Will the new policy prevent that from happening now because sub uh fundraising for substitutes would be student facing? Will that be no longer an option or is that still going to be allowed? >> So, I I checked in on a couple of field trips that are occurring happening now. A couple of them were vice principles who were traveling internationally with students. Some were the DLI only teacher where there might not be an impact back on campus. Um and then some actually were getting subs for Maine. And so you know we are

024not pivoting currently. So if someone has a substitute already in the system that is continuing right now for those trips >> I think. >> Oh no I appre I appreciate that. I just wonder um Chair Wong had just said >> that in the past the the bill had been zero to the district which is fantastic because parents were able to fundra for those substitutes. Is that going to still be an option because our fundraising policy has changed to no longer allow fundraising for studentf facing positions and obviously a substitute is a student facing position. Is that >> director? I might need to get back to you on that one. I'm not sure if we've incurred costs in this current year from any >> Oh, I I mean I can answer that. The the foundation policy

025was passed a couple years ago and since then the parent groups have still fundraised for the cost of total cost of the field trips and because it's not an entire FTE I don't think it applies in this situation and it hasn't had an issue in the last couple of years >> and the last two years both all the total cost to PPS has been $0. I think I can weigh in just to give the reasoning I think why there's there is an exception in the foundation policy that I've never understood why it's there and I bet that's why it's there because it says you can spend up to like $2500 or something like that toward staffing which would probably cover the cost of a sub for a trip like that. So there is that like

026little exception. I can't remember the exact dollar amount, but if you look at the last paragraph of that policy or so, you can see that dollar amount, Director Englesman, if you wanted to. >> Thank you. That's great to know. >> All right. Thank you all. >> Thank you. >> So, before we begin our discussion on growing great schools, I want to acknowledge the gravity of the decisions ahead. We recognize that school closures are never easy. They carry real lasting consequences for our students, families, families, and staff. Our commitment to a transparent public deliberation means that our internal considerations will be shared openly. This means you'll hear our personal reflections and internal considerations shared openly. We understand that hearing this process unfold can be painful for the community to witness. Please keep in mind that until

027a formal vote is cast, the thoughts shared today are preliminary reflections, not finalities. There is still a significant journey of public engagement and deep discussion ahead of us before any final decisions are reached. Christina, would you like to introduce this item? May I just jump in and say I appreciate Chair Chase Miller, you sharing that statement. I just want to underscore and and emphasize that, you know, following the public discussion at the board meeting, there were a ton of school communities that were alarmed and wondered if they needed to start mobilizing to um speak to you all and share about their school. and there's some unique situations with GI the um the distance and um just some programming and so so I appreciate the emphasis that this is a journey and that you all will

028express your opinions but vote as a collective and I think that's important for our school communities to hear because there's already so much uncertainty happening right now across Portland knowing that there's going to be some uncomfortable topics and in the end right it will be a collective vote and we have quite a bit of time before we get to that. So, just want to say thank you for that statement. >> Yeah. And thank you for that. >> Yeah, I I echo the gratitude and and um just there's been a lot of conversations even in the principal world too around some of this. So, I appreciate that. I think that's very helpful. Um, and so as we shared on Tuesday, today's presentation at this committee is one of several conversations with the board over the coming

029months. Staff will walk through the data we are seeing, a proposed timeline, and some lessons learned from bal balancing efforts. I'd like to invite Margaret Calvert up to the table to introduce you and the team, and you'll walk through the growing great schools process and how we're approaching this right sizing effort. Good afternoon. I just I'm almost I just need to get one more thing organized and I'll be ready. Okay. So, uh, good afternoon, directors. Um, it's great to have student representatives with us today. So, it's nice to meet you and welcome to the space. Uh, and Superintendent Armstrong, nice to have you here as well. Um, I appreciate the opportunity to come and speak uh to you. We, as we said, we were going to go through a series of conversations. Um, I want

030to uh underscore and emphasize all that has been said. What is what is true for all families is that you um get connected to schools and uh and we hope that there are wrong strong rich learning experiences that all students and families have. And we recognize that especially um uh as as as families enter schools for the first time at kindergarten and and uh make connections to that elementary school for the first time. Uh these are very strong um um connections. I remember um for example uh the first teacher all of my students had uh was Mrs. Kley at Vernon Elementary or K8 at the time and um it was uh you know she's a paramount person and and is historic figure in our family and and I know that everyone enters into schools with

031very strong um connections and hopes for the future and those ties are and those relationships are what um is really a strength of what uh happens in schooling and education. I also want to acknowledge that uh we're going to be embarking on a conversation over a number of months um that will include data and um descriptions of what school experiences are like um and that these are deeply personal for people and we uh recognize that our uh collective efforts to shape uh the conversation to be respect respectful and open uh and try to be as clear with our intentions around sharing information and providing space for people to give feedback. Uh that was heard uh loud and clear by the board of directors uh earlier this week and uh I echo those same commitments. So

032thank you for that. So as many of you said earlier, these are similar learning targets to what we had uh on Tuesday night. The reason that we are coming back is to go a little bit deeper uh share a little bit more context and then also um to hear ultimately from you and engage in a conversation. Uh I recognize that there are also some uh directors on um online and look forward to hearing from you and and guiding. The hope today really is to focus on some of the pieces of information that will be helpful uh for us to share and to really to engage in the work session on on March 31st. And ultimately lead to um sort of a framing conversation in April. So that's our intent today. So these are very similar

033learning targets to they're exactly the same learning targets actually from Tuesday and they're going to take us into um uh a depth of understanding. So a slightly different frame uh that may help with uh the understanding of current context um and then some examples of how we've used um value statements, guiding principles and various things in previous um enrollment balancing processes. This is a similar slide um that you saw earlier uh this week where we see that the trend for we are facing declining enrollment and that is for uh easily the next decade. We've been facing this for quite some time now and um also what we said earlier this week is it does not arrive at every space at the same time. So what you'll see in this graph um is that the change

034in uh there's a dramatic change and has been a decrease in our elementary student enrollment and that is the blue line that's at the top of this graph coming out of the pandemic. We saw um a significant shift in our elementary age students um enrolling in our schools. Uh as we mentioned earlier, we're addressing this through uh the three-phase growing great schools process which in includes enrollment campaigns and we heard from Chief Gross and she'll be back up sharing some of her um marketing strategies and whatnot. The yellow line in the middle is actually our high school age students. So these are not um specific high schools, but these are um students that would be in grades 9 through 12. What you'll notice is that it's fairly flat. like there's a slight increase coming out

035of the pandemic and the actual decrease in high school enrollment has not we haven't experienced it yet. So we see the drop on the blue line it is pres it's a leading indicator of what's going to happen in middle and high school and it has not happened yet in our middle and high schools. The red line at the bottom is uh middle grades. So these are students in grades six through eight um not in K8's uh K12s and um our our middle schools, our 68 schools. It's it mirrors some of what's happening at the high schools. It's fairly flat. Um and we see some of the changes are coming and are um you know again the K5 experience is a leading indicator for this grade level. If we were to look at localized situations, we

036will see fluctuations by school as well. Some schools um have seen increasing enrollment. We had this conversation uh with the high schools that when we open a a new modernized building, we see an increase in enrollment uh at high schools. And so when you look at a specific space or a specific part of the city, it is a slightly different picture. And that's part of what we're going to end up talking about over time is that when we look in the aggregate, we see these trends. when we look locally, there's greater uh variation in what the experience is um and the enrollment. And so that will be part of what we talk about as we move forward. Uh this graph um goes back to we took this back to um the early 2000 well the

037late 2000s almost 2010s. What it shows is the mix. It's our portfolio mix of school type in the across the district. So when we look back at 2007208 um the uh light green at the top are our middle schools. So there are 68 schools. The darker green below are the number of K8 schools. It's not the population, it's the actual number of schools. Um and then you'll see uh the yellow is the K5 schools and then high schools are light blue and all alternative schools and programs are in the darker blue. What you'll notice over time is that we see that the number of K8s we've have we've decreased the number of K8s that we have across our system. We have increased the number of K5s and we've increased the number of middle schools. Um

038so part of what you see and you if you'll notice um in the year uh 201617 uh we started to uh do some grade level reconfiguration. So there going to be a number of things that we talk about um in the coming months and one is around what is the grade level configuration that we're looking at at a particular building site and so is that experience a K5 a K8 a high school what are what is that grade band or K12 so in 2016 this was uh the first time um that we reconfigured a school from a K8 into a middle school program. was at Oley Green. And so what that impact was was not only at the site at Oley Green, but then it also was what what did that what were the implications

039for the schools in order to create that attendance area meant we had to change that some of the K8s that were adjoining um Oley Green. It's similar to what has happened in Southeast um when we opened Kellogg, we changed the configurations for the K8s to provide the attendance area for Kellogg Middle School. So the other piece that I just want you to uh tend to here is that you'll see that the actual number of schools has remained pretty consistent over this time period and some of what um Dr. Armstrong has has shared and what we're looking at is is this the right mix of schools and what is that what are the implications for having uh this number of schools when we're having declining enrollment. You know, one of the things I'm wondering as you

040go through the data, um, if there could be just some strategic pauses to just see what questions may be there just to kind of unpack because I we want to give you as much information as possible and we also want you to be able to ask questions. >> I'm glad you said that because I have a question on this slide if that's all right. Um, I noticed that in like 145 we had fewer schools than we do now. Do you know why we had that little dip and then return back? >> Off the off the top of my head, I don't, but I'm happy to get get it answered. >> It looks like it's like a five school or so dip. So, it doesn't seem like one or two. I would just be curious because

041I don't think we've opened more schools anyway. >> So, we opened two middle schools but kept all the other elementaryaries open. That's correct. >> Okay. Well, it could just be the two middle schools then. So 2000 um we had a 2016 school year uh we opened Olay Green. We followed that with Tubman and Rose City, excuse me, Roseway Heights was re So some of the schools uh Kellogg for example actually had been closed and was not a middle school at all. Tubman was reopened as a school. So that could be what some of those small variations are. >> I bet that's exactly what it is. I hadn't realized that they'd been closed. I just thought they had been K8s that got converted to middle schools. So, yes, >> Kellogg was I mean is a good

042example that it was it was um it was closed and then it was the then was modernized and rebuilt. Uh the site of Harriet Tubman Middle School actually became a swing space for Fabian while Fabian was being built and then after Fabian was done and the students moved out then uh Harriet Tubman Middle School was reopened as a middle school. It had been the Young Women's Academy. There's there's lots of history there, but it had been the Young Women's Academy prior to Fabian moving in. Yeah. Anything else about this slide? Happy to answer any other questions on the slide before I move or that our previous slide. I I have one question. Um you mentioned um the decline after the pandemic and I was and um starting our enrollment campaigns. I was wondering if the

043decline was in response to losing students to private during the pandemic or if this is a reflective of the enrollment cliff that we're starting to experience. >> So I think that's a great question. So is like I'm going to go back one slide. I think you're saying you're Yep. That's great. So if you look at there's a fairly steep decline from like 201920 which is you know tomorrow is actually the sixth anniversary of us going out for COVID. It's the same date a Friday the 13th in March. Um so it is um we are what you see is there is there was a uh there were a number of experiences that we had during co um I think that we can dig more deeply into this and I would encourage if that's something that we

044would like more information about director Lefor I'm happy to to come back and have a longer discussion. I would say there are two things. There was questions that at that time there was some kindergarteners did not enter during school shutdown and did not enter into online learning at that time. I think the other piece that and I would I'm going to say this with caution but I think that we can go and and examine it. Um what did come and what we have seen coming out of CO is that there's an increase in the number of online schools as well as you know whether it's private or online. And I think that that's some I I don't want to make any statements about that. I'm just saying these are things that we have seen come

045as a result and we could go back and look more uh carefully at that particular time period. >> Is it is it possible to is there data that exists that shows us um I don't know if it would be tracked at the state level. Um how many like I understand how to figure out if somebody transfers out of PPS we have a record of that. If they never entered >> how do we know where they are? Do we know? >> How do we know where they end up? >> Do we Does that make sense? Like if >> How do we know if 20 kindergarters are going to private school if they never registered with PPS in the first place? >> Yeah. So, I think that the um there are two pieces and I will uh

046I I can I can hear Dr. Adams is in the room with us here too is and I'll uh invite him to come down and answer this question if if there's something in addition that he would like to add. But part of what will happen is I mean can you save one for one where a student goes um not necessarily what can we can say is have you know we can say has the private school enrollment increased AC you know like we can't we can make a statement about that can we say that it represents what happened in a particular area or part of the city it's harder to do that >> so I'll see I I I think that's that's great about the the kinder I think when you think of like the birth

047rates and the census on how they um make some predict predictions on enrollment I think is that how it's determined that hey we should have had this many kids they didn't show up where they're at is harder to track but I will say that how dropouts are counted is when they um withdraw from one school and there's no confirmed enrollment records request from any other school then that's how that's coded as a dropout once you're out of, you know, that first entry grade. >> And I and um I think there's some anecdotal pieces. So if there, you know, why I'll make a note like are there some time frames that we would like to look at or some other pieces? And I hear um and this came up I think a little bit in the

048Jefferson is rising as well, doc, director Lefort, which was um you know, what is what does a capture rate really mean and what is what and do if the capture rates are different in different parts of the city? what does that mean then for enrollment in schools? And so I'm happy to bring back some additional information for um that as part of a discussion. Want to go to the next one? >> Oh, director Lefort has a question. Director, >> thank you. I was just going to pipe in um I'm going to stay off camera just because of my situation right now, but um I Let me lower my hand. I appreciate Director Lefort's questions because I had some similar questions and was going to ask you to go to this slide that we're on. I

049would love to see if possible um sort of comparison data between the the birth rates and the enrollment rates. Um and I don't know how we would do that except to sort of say in 2020 this many were born and in 2020 this many enrolled in kindergarten even though they're not. and then five years later um 2025 this number was born and if many enrolled it won't of course be the same kids enrolling the year that they're born but it's sort of um indicative perhaps of the percentage that are being born who are also then eventually enrolling. I I don't know if I'm articulating that well, but I would love to see if this is not only declining enrollment due to declining birth rate or it's declining enrollment because people are also choosing elsewhere. And

050so it might be sort of an overlay between birth rates and enrollment rates for us PPS. And then to um uh assistant superintendent Calbertt's comments about enrollments at private schools going up might be the third overlay to sort of capture and get an idea. I'd love to see that. And then I also was curious um because I wonder whether I'm not going to articulate this well either, but if elementary school numbers are going down and have been for a while long enough that we would see it in middle school. um are there families who presumably are choosing somewhere else um for elementary school and then are choosing us for middle school because the elementary school decline uh looks to have been steadily declining uh I don't know since 20 since co basically uh and so

051that's long enough that's six years that's long enough that we would see the drop off in middle school starting uh more so I think so I would again I'm not articulating as well. I would love to see 2020 we had 10,000 fifth graders and then we had 8,000 sixth graders the next year. 2021 we had 9,000 fifth graders and we had 7,000 sixth graders the next year. Does that make sense? Like I'd love to see a graph that shows how many fifth graders in our district are becoming sixth graders the next year in our district. Um I I think yeah and I'm happy to talk offline. I can try to formulate my questions better. But I think that would uh that would help. And I wonder if and I know I'm not saying one way

052or the other about I wonder when the policy stopping preventing people from enrolling early. I know we hear about this a lot. Um I wonder when that took effect to change the you can a petition to enter early if we see a decline in enrollment then as well. So, um, again, happy to talk offline to articulate myself better, but that would be great for me to if you're able to produce that, not immediately, but thank you. >> I don't see. >> Oh, good afternoon, Bernard Adams, chief accountability and equity officer. I appreciate your questions, directors Lefort and our uh work with the population resource center. they produce our enrollment projections report every year. So much of the um information and data points you're asking about are those that they produce for us because they have

053access to information like birth rates um new housing um new housing builds and complex and changes in um housing and things like that. And those are available on the website. back and I'm sure they're they're thick reports so we would need to comb through those to pull out the data and the information that you're asking for but I did want to share that those are available available to talk about things like catchment and birth rates and things like that. Um, we have been since uh I know I've been here, we've been trying to uh figure out a way to try to answer the question of where are they at, right? It's a it's a complex question. Um, we don't see many I haven't se heard of really any district across the country that I'm aware

054of that's seeing an enrollment increase. So, the question is sort of where all these sort of kids go, where are all the students going? And so, that's one we're still grappling with. Um, we do we did do some um research partnered we partnered with Chief Candace Gross, our chief of communications to follow up with some parents about why they choose to stay, why they choose to leave. And we have um we're finalizing and synthesizing that information and we'd be happy to share that with uh the board as well when we have that. >> We'd love to see that. Sorry. >> Do you have do you have another question? >> I have one more. Yes. >> Um just throwing this out there. Um Director Englesman said something about early enrollment. You know, we have our policy,

055you know, September 1st cuto off for our kindergarteners and the question seems to come up. I'm assuming it comes up every year with parents who want to enroll early who have children that might have, you know, August birthdays coming from the parent of an August and a September birthday. Um, I am wondering if just sort of thinking all out here, is that a policy we want to revisit? So, if somebody has a child that has a birthday on August 31st and they do want to enroll their child at kindergarten, do we review those? I know that we don't right now that we have >> I just have to wait because I want to like correct the it's September 1st is the cut off. So, the August 31st kid is in is in kindergarten. >> No,

056I'm talking on the other side. Oh, you think they should be able to go a full year early? >> Well, it wouldn't be. It would be a couple days. So, for example, like my my son has an August birthday, so I could have Sorry. >> Yes. It's the other I Yes, I'm I'm in the opposite world. >> I just wanted you to flip it so that it wasn't. So, yes. So, let's say the birthday is September September 2nd >> and this parent wants to enroll their child into kindergarten. Right now, we are a hard no. Is that something as a board that we want to revisit? I'm just throwing that out there. I'm not saying we have to even have that discussion right now, but I think it's worth considering. >> I don't think we

057can have that conversation now. So, um maybe that's something we can pick up in policy committee. Um Director Wong, did you have something you were going to say? >> No, I was just going to say that the big drop off happened in 2021, which is 5 years after the 2016 election, just saying people didn't want to have babies anymore. That's a big reason. word. Um, okay. I think we're gonna I I Oh, go ahead. >> The only comment I had was like I think if we could move on because I don't know if I mean this is interesting, but I don't know how much that deals with boundaries. >> Agree. >> I just want to take your Souththeast Guiding Coalition brain. It's not just boundaries >> in schools. Okay, I think we're ready to keep

058it moving. >> Director Sullivan. >> Um, yeah, I just wanted to say it was just last year that that was discussed in the policy committee very thoroughly >> and Emily Glasgow is the one to talk to if you want to get, you know, the discussion and the reason behind it. So there's a lot of information there we can you can get easily um and we don't need to talk about it now but there's definitely sources. >> Well that's it. >> Thank you. >> So unless there's any question other questions about this I will continue on. We're good. Okay. So we also shared some lessons learned. Um this is similar to some of the uh uh slides that we had uh previously. Um there's a part there's some through lines. This part about equity and process

059and outcomes has been has surfaced a number of times and and really thinking about what that's going to look like in this particular process is going to uh we look forward to some um guidance around that and and we can bring some uh proposals forward. uh the piece around uh we've heard loud and clear a lot around what is the academic experience we want all students to have and what are regardless of where they live. So that has been consistent in our enrollment pro balancing processes for well over 20 years. Um the piece that we are working on and we mentioned this before is that we will have um a review of some of the effectiveness of the implementation from Southeast Guiding Coalition. We're in the midst of doing staff um focus groups and interviews

060with principles. We'll be uh doing a community focus group here um within the next month and we should have some information and uh to share um in the in the coming month or so. Um, and finally, I think the piece around uh what is what is a well-resourced sustainable school is really we we circle around that general topic a lot. And I think that that this uh what does that mean and what does that look like? How do we define that as some of what has has been part of the enrollment processes uh here in Portland? As we shared earlier, part of what came from DRA and the worker with the district uhwide boundary review committee were these factors to consider that are embedded in policy. Part of what we will continue to ask is

061are there other things that you would like us to consider or have information brought forth to you? Um different parts of these will surface in different spaces. Earlier uh this week there was a conversation um about uh transportation for example and what does that look like? Does transportation um look like uh really walkability and bikeability at elementary and does that change as you go to middle school um and thinking about some of those pieces. So I did hear that from you earlier this week and I appreciate that feedback um as we go forward. But again I want to this these are things that are in policy that we will bring forward. they shaped some of the key performance indicators that we built um in the com in the for the Jefferson is rising process >>

062do have one question um I think it's also in policy that students have preferential placement to their the school that their siblings went to their older sibling right >> so this I think that's also a consideration when we talking about changing schools is that it may have a like a natural phase in because of that policy Yes, that's correct. Um, so there are three there are three questions. They're different questions that we asked earlier. Um, so here the the the questions for today are slightly different. Um, uh, we had this little bit of a conversation uh, Tuesday night with what guiding principles do you want us to consider? Is there something that that does not need to be definitive right now? We just are looking for are there how can we help get some information

063um to you that would be helpful. Uh what we heard are things like small neighborhood schools. Uh this part about transportation efficiencies. These were some of the things that you said earlier this week. Um are our values aligned with outcomes? uh the preference uh about uh ensuring that all students have high quality programming and robust academics regardless of their zip code was some these were some of the examples that you provided us earlier this week. Uh so this will as we go through today will there will be an opportunity to have that you know to that discussion further. Um second question to consider is are there additional information that you are need or would like us to gather? So, I'm taking notes and I'm having we'll come back and listen to the um uh recording

064and really hone in on other specific things. If you're sending questions to us, that's great. We we will be happy to try to u frame up um the information for a robust discussion. Um and then the third part is are there any specific considerations you want us to incorporate? So, the next couple slides and I'll go through these fairly quickly. just uh pause me if you need to uh because I want you to I'm providing I'm going to provide some examples like I did um uh on Tuesday night and then really I want to hear we want to hear what the discussion is amongst you. Um so there are uh there are three since 2014 these were the three um significant uh enrollment balancing efforts. What you'll notice up here is that um two of

065them had a a community survey that was part of it. I many of you may remember the Oregon kitchen table survey um that and it actually said what do you want to see in your schools in 2025. So uh that was one of the things that happened with DRA. Uh there were open houses, focus groups, various advisory committees and structures um as we went through and opportunities for there to be um feedback. Jefferson is rising explicitly had student feedback. I also heard that as potentially an interest and with our student representatives here that there was how do we solicit and intentionally hear from students as well and and so that is uh we'll you know we will incorporate some opportunities for that as we go. So those are the three sort of different u pieces

066around engagement. When we did DRA there were some consistent things there was there was a statement about desired outcomes. So this statement was around strong stable enrollment in all schools, clear, responsible, transparent process, evidence that the racial equity lens had been used. The approach was um they the there was guidance around enrollment ranges is what came out of it. Um updated classroom counts of how many were in each building and were they big enough um you know sort of the capacity beyond just a um capacity number for the school as a whole but actually down to the classroom level. and then looking at special program classroom needs and how those are the same or different um based on uh the design of the program. Uh at that time the K8 range was to be somewhere

067between 470 and 800 students. Um K5 was 330 to 720. Middle schools the ED specs at the time were for 675 students. Um it was a look across the district as a whole at the time. Um it was looking at it was a time of increasing enrollment actually in the district and we were looking at alleviating the most uh acute issues both over enrollment and underenrollment was were sort of the pieces that were part of that process. Um and this was uh there was a concerted statement around looking at grade level reconfiguration and really thinking about K8s to middle schools which is where you started to see Oley Green, Tubman, Roseway Heights um being reconfigured and leading to um those pieces. So that was Dra um Southeast balancing the framework and analysis. Um, director chair

068long has had quite a deep experience with this, but it was similar. So, optimize the use of facilities. Do we have equitable programming? What was unique about this was this statement about minimizing program loss. So, that was slightly different in Southeast Guiding Coalition. There was a lot of discussion around our dual language immersion programs, what that meant to have a dual language immersion program side by side with the neighborhood program. if they were the same size or different sizes. There was a lot of conversation about that. Um, again, there was a statement about the general size of the schools. One of the pieces were looking at school utilizations overall and trying to get above uh 80%, proximity took a larger role in this particular one and how close students were to the school. Um, and

069as and the piece about this was a phased approach. It was phased and regional. So the the the all of the adjustments were made within Southeast and within a specific set of schools um and phase one and phase two. And then the last piece about this is just uh sunsetting dual assignment. Again, this is a regional approach. The um there's thresholds. We introduced the notion of a threshold enrollments. Um but again the idea was assuring comparable curriculum and program across high school these four high schools. um while also having a specific interest in increasing enrollment at Jefferson. So, they take slightly different there's some things that are very common across these and they also take slightly different approaches. Um what we heard um on Tuesday was let's look systemwide um and to think about what

070that looks like. So, this is this was the timeline. We also heard from you that um the timeline in general sounded like it was reasonable. the specifics seem like we need to have a little more discussion. Um and that the goal would be a vote potentially sometime in winter whether it's December and or um well we're right now is it's penciled in as a vote in December. Um so that's sort of some of the backdrop of what what the pieces are. I'm going to put these three questions back up. So again, are there guiding principles you want us to consider? um what additional information would be helpful. We really want to provide and use your time wisely as you know we respect the your volunteers in this process and appreciate your time. So how do

071we get the information that you uh will need and find useful um happy to frame it up um in a variety of ways. I also heard very clearly from you that you want something. You don't want a blank slate. We're not starting from a blank canvas. Provide some frameworks. allow for there to be some push back and to think through um or robust discussion as the case may be um as we go through the process and then finally is there something specifically you want us to incorporate so um we have uh also brought some examples of a framework that uh Denver public schools used u so there are some things that we can bring um so that you have something to look at that is um explicit um some or things that we have done

072and then there are some other examples that we can bring. We actually just were on the phone this morning with Beaverton School District with some of their folks talking through um what their strategies were. So with that, I'm going to pause um and it's it's questions and or discussion about um specific things to help guide us. >> Yeah, I'm excited for this conversation. Just a couple of things as I reflect back on the board meeting on Tuesday. One of the things that will be helpful for me and the team is to get to the details of the things that you all bring up like for instance I know um on Tuesday it was look at all focus option pro uh schools. I guess my question would be what specifically would you like us to bring

073back on focus option schools? The other one was like um K8 the previous decision to revert to middle schools but you know we also have some outliers out there like I will use the example of skyline that is way out there near Scapuse if I'm saying that correctly >> and a city I have not yet been to but going to the school I felt like I was going to another state and so that K8 like hm bring us data on like travel times because there might be some things where we're not able to make like just some uniform um decision on you know end all K8s because there's some complicated pieces across the city and so it will help us with you know I get that you all are putting out some preferences and some

074statements but like what are the details that you want us to bring back based on some of those overarching statements that you made on Tuesday or that you may be sitting with today. I feel like I want to respond to that with like an illustrative example and I'm gonna do the thing with using ants names again to avoid trouble for the names of the schools. But like um I think that for me personally when I bring up focus options in K8s I think what I'm trying to say is I want those conversations on the table and not nec personally I wouldn't necess I wouldn't necessarily want um an approach where it's like we're going to shut them all down or change all of them but more like I want those discussions to be on the

075table as we look at areas where we have opportunities if that makes sense. And as we get into guiding principles, it might make more sense. But like to give an example, if there's a um a focus option school that is in an area and it's taking students from neighborhood schools nearby for the most part, and those neighborhood schools would have higher enrollment if that school wasn't there. um and that school is not serving a particular um high needs population. Um for example, like a dual language immersion program I would say serves like this equity function and might have a lot of kids that are underserved in some way. So that for example would make that less of a interesting conversation. But where you're looking at a school and saying, "Uh, en rollment's down." But then

076there's a focus option school less than a mile away that's taking 50 kids from that neighborhood school. That to me is where I want to see that conversation happen. Um, you know, just so it would depend um on like a case- by case basis, less of a let's um look at them holistically. It's more like where are there opportunities that we can um solve these sort of enrollment issues in creative ways. What I don't want us to do is say this is just a discussion about neighborhood schools. I'd prefer one where neighborhood schools are are pretty well protected to keep those communities together. But like, okay, so like how do we have like a balanced approach so that we're including some K8s that might change over maybe or we're going to change a focus option

077or I keep wondering what if the focus option opens up and becomes where you can like a like there's uh one that I know of no name that or a couple the one was here tonight where it's got a neighborhood catchment and you can lottery in like that model that seems like something we could look at instead of them just being lottery only. So I just think it's more of a like where are there opportunities? Let's keep our minds open and our doors open and in the end have a balanced approach so that we don't end up with a situation where it's like all the all of this type of school were safe and untouched. I think it should be like every part of the city and every type of school should be part of

078the calculus. Does that make sense? And is that helpful? >> Very very helpful. And I think a couple of things that I believe what would be maybe roots of some of those uh talking points or even things that we look at is um let's maybe challenge some of the assumptions that if the kiddos didn't attend that focus option, they would go to neighborhood school A because it's close by, right? So what we that lets me and the team know that we're going to look for data that like what is the profile of a student? Why are the families accessing this program? And so I appreciate the clarity on you just want to make sure that we're taking an approach that is across Portland and not focusing on one specific profile. And I I think that

079is what we envision as well. So that's very helpful. >> Other others might disagree or agree, but I just wanted to share that hopefully that I mean at least for me because I know I was one of the people that brought that up. Um I agree and I think for me in this conversation it's important that um nothing be off the table. um because I don't you know we have a a big puzzle to solve and um you know we we might need all of the pieces but I also think um you know if we're taking an equity approach that's not that's not like a a broad brush approach right that means we're looking at the skylines and like is it fair and reasonable to lump them into let's pretend we said no more K8s

080like would that be serving ing those kids in that community. Well, um, and I think equity has to guide this conversation. So, making sure that we are being um, mindful of what's fair and what's in the best interest of kids um, and families. I also want to make sure that um when when one thing that I think um which question this speak to a consideration I want y'all to incorporate is when we ask you something or express something that we'd like to see um I would love it if you could include in that um any unintended consequences um because we might think that we have a great idea but we don't have the full picture like you do. Um, so I would like you all to feel empowered to say, you know, if we do

081this, it means that 47 children won't have bus access or whatever the case may be. But I would like us to be able to see both the um the pros and the cons to decisions we're looking at. >> I'll pile on. Um, regarding the focus options, I would like to know, do our focus options have a disproportionate impact on schools in our lower income neighborhoods? For example, is do we have a larger exodus from our elementary schools in North Portland going to focus options in other areas of the city? What does that look like? Um and then I just want to share my thoughts by I do believe that by operating K through eight and middle school models by doing both that over time we've really created a system um in which students are having

082different educational experiences depending on where they live and which school they attend and that's something I would like to see end which is why I'm very passionate about this. I feel like this may be the, you know, the one opportunity we have to get this right. Although I do believe, you know, there are there maybe guideline might be an example um where we do have to make an exception, but we we need to talk to those families and look at that because they may want this model because of the opportunities. the middle schools, the middle school model in PPS offers more robust programming and more robust electives like band and like choir and these programs, you know, growing them at the middle school level is good for our high schools. So, um, I just want

083to keep that in mind. I feel like doing this well, um, could be a really critical piece to help us retain, uh, families within PPS. >> I was thinking it might actually even be a cool idea. I mean, since you mentioned Skyline, knowing that those kiddos um eventually make their way to Lincoln, that we plan even some focus groups with students at the high school level based on the routes that they went to be um able to collect some information. And I I know we have two students here and I don't know how you all feel about um how the opportunities to hear directly from students about their pathways and programs and what access they feel that they were denied or that they were able to access. So just want to acknowledge this might be

084a great opportunity to also build in and rely on student voice too. >> I also want to note we have uh director Sullivan, director um Englesman have questions. I should have said this at the start. I was thinking we could do our practice and make our way across. So, um, Chair Wong, do you have anything? >> Yeah. How much time do I have? >> Uh, I like what everyone else previously said. I think if there's opportunities for K through eights to be turned into middle school and elementary school, I think this is a great time to do it. But I also understand that there are some exceptions that make it very difficult. Um, so I'm I'm fine with that. I I love the statement about um the unintended consequences to make sure that we're very

085blunt and forward with that. Um one perfect example was like our uh we had public comment today from a teacher when the SEGC was rolled out. It didn't consider in the fact that you know the athletics program was lagging behind in terms of how it was uh organized and so now we have these situations all over the district. Um, so I think things like that to be fixed, which leads into my one big concern I have is um the split feeder situation. >> I mean, currently my daughter is not going to any school that doesn't have a split feeder situation. She doesn't get to stay with her half her classmates in elementary school, doesn't stay with half her class in a middle school. And you know, it's kind of it's kind of weird. Um and

086so that you know not besides a personal thing I mean it's it's causing some issues all around you know just like our person uh the teacher who came in for public comment um I I think that in terms of focus option schools I do agree 100% agree everything needs to be on the table I'm not I'm kind of undecided whether one way the other however I do think that there is an issue where some focus options are drawing from some schools more than others causing issues especially when we have some focus option schools that are I'm just going to be blunt whiter than their neighborhood. Um, and and there's there's some reasons about, you know, for example, you know, I don't want to like not say it because there there are situations where races play

087uh a factor in this and how people decide to enroll their schools. And I want to make sure that we are centering equity and making sure that um the kids from T1 schools are not suffering because of choice, quote unquote choice. Um, I or I think I have everything. Um, but yeah, I like what everyone else has said and I also 100% agree that everything needs to be on the table. We really need to look at the whole district. Um, especially like high school balancing enrollment. I mean, I think there's some needs to be shuffling around there. I mean, probably not for long and probably because of the downward enrollment like Grant is overenrolled, right? and and Franklin is also pretty stuffed and so things like that need it's a great opportunity to fix fix

088things. I mean, people are bumping shoulders walking around the hallway, so it's Yeah, I'm done. >> I love that. And I'm just inserting my comments. I'm going to apologize up front. I um I love the idea about finding out some of those areas where we may have some misfires and need and that need some technical uh fixes immediately. And I'm wondering if maybe uh the team and I can just frontload like what are some things that are sitting out there that we've been hearing about over time that we need to put at the top of the list. And then the other thing that I'll say and I I know this um you know I I mean this in in all all uh due respect is that sometimes in the quest I'm going to use foundations

089as an example. in a quest to make things equitable, we move towards making uh things equal, thereby disrupting um equity. And so I want to make sure that that's a balanced conversation so that we're not like using a strategy, well, we just want everyone uh in an equal fashion in thereby creating more inequitable systems and things. And so, you know, I'm going to encourage us to bring forth the equity will that we typically use when making decisions internally and maybe walking through an exercise like that for the group as well. >> Love that too. Um, Director Sullivan, uh, is your hand newly up or >> Yeah, I think that Eddie summarized very well what you all said. Totally agree. I I think I've heard the problems that some of the neighborhood kids who want to

090go just to the neighborhood school, the schools have problems because so many leave to go um to um you know uh focus option schools. So I think that's something to look at. Um but yeah, I I think we're starting with a really good base and just work from there. and I think we all wanted what we can get the best for all the kids. So, I have nothing new to add. >> Thank you, Director Englesman. >> Thank you. Um I have a couple of comments or thoughts. one um to that teacher or uh track person who made comment earlier, I think it would be wonderful if we didn't split elementary schools and that the entire cohort of an elementary school could go to middle school together. I know it's possibly challenging, but in that big

091transition time, even if people aren't friends, they then see each other as they go from a school of 300 to a school of 500. they sort of see each other and it there is um I guess it would be much more than never mind you know what you know what I'm saying the a group I guess a school is 300 the fifth grade would be maybe 60 so if 60 kids are going into a school of um 500 to see each other could be really positive for the students leaving elementary school going to middle school the other thing that um a lot of people have heard me say is um I would love if possible and we should be able to get this data because we have people applying to lottery schools for kindergarten and

092so we have them in a system as applying. I would love to know how many of them don't come to PPS if they don't get their lottery choice. Um because I have often wondered and again this could be like an unintended consequence there might be that I'm not thinking through but I've often wondered if we create um uh an an idea which I don't believe at all in but if we create an idea to people oh you didn't get um Buckman you didn't get your DLI you didn't get you know whatever you're applying for you have to just go to your neighborhood neighborhood school, you're not getting as great of an education because the neighborhood school is not lottery. I wonder if we're creating um I'm I'm locking I'm missing the term, but this in

093someone's minds, oh, my kid didn't get the French immersion program um and so they're missing out. They're not going to get the as best of an education as possible. And so I think it would be great to see the numbers. How many do we lose because they go elsewhere when they don't get their lottery opportunity or their lottery request? And following that idea, I would love to know, and there are likely unintended consequences, I would love to know what happened if we just let everyone who wanted to get in in. Um, so if all 150 on Da Vinci's weight list got in, or if however many are on the French immersion, or however many are on Winter Haven's weight list, what if we just let them in and we figured out a way to create

094schools that could house that many people, could educate that many kids, but it no longer felt like I'm not getting the education that I think is best for my kids. So, now that I've started thinking about French immersion, we didn't get it. I should go to one of those private French schools. Um, and it would it would be challenging of course for the staffing and so maybe it has to happen two years in advance like you apply for this middle school in fourth grade and so we know you're coming and we can project for that. But I do often wonder if we are um sort of creating a a a thought problem to people. Um and then to the to the to the schools, I had one more comment that I wish I had addressed

095at the meeting on Tuesday, but I heard a comment about the idea that the the small neighborhood schools that are trying to offer as much as they can and are frankly competing against all the lottery schools that perhaps people think are offering more to their students education. I heard comment about that them trying to stay small and my experience and in talking to parents and talking to principles around the district is that those schools are absolutely not trying to stay small that they are out doing outreach. They are trying to make themselves look as good as possible to the community to draw the community in because they know that it benefits them to have more students enrollment and all of the thoughts. So, I just wanted to correct that idea from actual conversations with outreach

096and advocacy families and principles alike of these quote smaller neighborhood schools that they are desperately trying to grow their enrollment. Um, so yeah, those are my thoughts. Thank you. >> Do our student representatives have any comments or questions? >> Um, yes. I wanted to say something about what you said about um possibly having groups within schools to make sure people feel connected to the people they went to elementary middle school with. I think I have kind of a unique perspective being in Benson because we are a magnet school. Um I think I know one other junior who I went to middle school with. Um, but we have different and and like um I I think we have different ways of creating community within our schools because we're so connected within our our majors and everything.

097Um, and so I think it's kind of like two different ways of looking at it. Like yes, we do want kids to be connected with who they like knew when they were in elementary school and everything, but sometimes it's like great to be exposed to different perspectives of like people from across the city cuz like a lot of my friends don't live anywhere near me. And so I get to go like see different parts of the city that I never would be able to explore on my own when I hang out with them and everything. So I think I think there's different perspectives about about like connectivity for for kids based on like where they live and where they went to elementary and middle school. And to add on to that, I grew up going

098to West Palhurst Elementary in David Douglas. So, and then I didn't move that far because I ended up at Franklin. But I think like have I know nobody actually I know one person that I knew, but she didn't go to my elementary school. And so I think like that's very it's cool to meet new people and like I used to not really explore the area that I live but I do understand how that is important and how building a community over time like that is important. And so I think that having kind of a mix may be important for student connection and experiencing the places that we live. And uh there was something earlier in the presentation talking about losing students to online. I um I went online after the pandemic and then came back

099for high school. So I know that that was the case for a lot of kids, especially with like mental health and that kind of stuff during the pandemic. And so I would be interested in hearing more from the students on like if they knew kids who had similar perspectives from mine of going online and coming back or if they started online. Like I went to a K through 12 online and there were a lot of kindergarteners when I was there. So I would be very curious to see that. I'm so glad we have student representation on this committee now. Thank you both for your thoughts. >> Um, we are about at time. >> Um, I would like those of us that didn't get >> Oh, shoot. >> Hold on. Aren't there three of us still?

100>> Did you feel like you're good? >> I thought we went all the way around >> because I just said I just responded to her opening thing. >> Oh, my bad. >> I didn't get my Is it okay if I do mine real quick? Okay, I'll be super quick. I have them written down so that should help. Um there's something that hasn't come up. Um the split feeder thing came up and I actually don't have super strong feelings about split feeders. However, when we're talking about um having some schools close, um I one of my like foundational theories is that the more that we could provide them the most familiar faces at the new school, the better. So, like I love the idea of like taking two schools and putting them together or if we

101take a if a school is closing, we take those we do a we take half those kids to one school and half to another and create bigger schools. Um, so I would hope that we're really I would what I wouldn't want to do is have a school close and then divide those kids up to five different schools. So, I will be a big fan of it. Doesn't need to be 100% of them, although I think that's nifty, but I think just making sure that they do have at least some because these are elementary school kids I'm mostly thinking about. Um, where it might be a little less exciting to meet new people yet. Um, I love the idea of the K8 conversation. I also love the idea of finding out how K8 families actually feel

102about being at a K8. Like, how do the six, seven, eight parents and and kids feel? Um, I think that might be helpful to tease out at some point. We already talked about equity and being thoughtful about our most vulnerable kids. Um I think that I love thinking about consolidation over closure just for what it's worth. It's like a guiding principle for me. Um so that those schools we're creating become we can share about how these schools are going to be like a better option. Um I love looking at building deferred maintenance. If there's buildings that we should just not be investing any more money in, then that would be to me a good building to consider letting go of. Um, I would be interested in that conversation. I would even be interested in just

103looking at what came out of the one 10 years ago about what people want to see at every school. Um, and like kind of where we don't have that, like is it we want to see at least two sections of at each grade level that's a sign of a school that we think is then going to have the resources. Um, I also think looking at per student costs would be smart like schools where we're paying significantly more per student um in addition to just like whatever the title one bump would be for example. I just think that's interesting to consider. So a guiding principle to me will be looking at per student cost and making sure that we don't have inefficient school models. Like if we're investing more in a kid, I want it to

104be because that kid needs more investment, not because where they're going to school is for whatever reason costing more money. Um I do think neighborhood schools are a real value of mine. And I'm not talking about the youth the special ed model, but the just schools and neighborhoods. And then um I also think that we talked about this before, but like I think that having an approach where in the end like every part of the city is affected or at least if not every part it's not like in one specific area so that it's like everybody's kind of in it together if that makes sense. but kind of base it on population. So if you're at a place where there's declining where you can show that there's like not very many kids living or something

105then that would be worth and then the other thing that's a guiding principle for me is having transition plans in place so that when we and I talked about this the other night but more as a engagement process but I think for me it's a guiding principle too that when we're talking to people about what's going to be happening on the back end of all this we can be telling them the story of what it's going to be like and how that's going to go and not be like we'll work it out later, you know. Um so that's that's those are my guiding principles, but keeping kids together, being thoughtful about most vulnerable kids is probably the um the most important. And I also want to remind us that growing great schools as a subject

106line might not get the attention that we need. I know that Margaret has learned that already, but I think we need to make sure that we're really thoughtful in communication so that we are making it really clear we're talking to people about when the time comes, even if it isn't um the best messaging. Thank you. Thanks for letting me come back. I wrote them all down. I was ready. Um well, your thoughts made me think additional thoughts. Um no, that's okay. Um I I don't want to forget these things. Um and and maybe this first one is what you were saying, but maybe it wasn't. Um, but I would like us to be paying attention to where we are consolidating and moving kids into the safest seismic buildings as we're having this conversation about the

107number amount of funds we have for doing the seismic work and the need around that. Like, let's make our dollars go further by leveraging the buildings that are the safest and putting kids there. Um, also what Christy said about consolidations, over closures, um, as we go through this process, I would like us to think about this as, um, kind of like like blending families, you know? So if one school is moving into another school community, doing that in a way where the first school community doesn't feel like their identity is being lost or the things that are important to them in their school community and meaningful like those traditions and rituals and routines should go with them and become a part of the new school's identity as well. and like really do like a blending

108rather than a a depositing of just kids into a new physical space without care for um the culture piece. >> Okay, I'm done. I'm done now. Does anyone else have any >> I just have a clarifying question. I'm just curious what in your mind the difference between closing consolidation. I mean, I can guess, but I just want to be 100% clear. Maybe Chrissy since you started that conversing about that goes back to that keeping kids together idea where if we're consolidating, you know, three schools into two or consolidating two schools into one. To me, I would prefer that be the approach that we're taking versus closing a school and then just redistricting however like grabbing kids and putting them in the like a, you know, just closing a school and then drawing the boundaries that

109just send 30 of them to this one and 30 to that one. That's what I'm thinking about. I kind of said the same thing twice, but >> yeah, that's that's what I thought. I just want to be clear. Thank you. I agree. Um, Director Sullivan, is your hand up from before or do you have a new thing to say? Oh, hi kitty. >> It's up. Oh, you see my kitty? It's up because I forgot to put it down. >> Okay. I just wanted to make sure we didn't uh cut you off. >> I will now put it down. Okay. Well, I'm trying to. My cat's bothering me. >> All right. Um, >> so I think I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> I was just going to say there are a couple things I just some takeaways

110that I heard um that uh just want to lift up. I hear uh an interest and saying uh let's have a balanced approach. uh that we're looking at the portfolio overall and locally. Um at the and and that there uh will be some criteria that we will have to recognize that uh there it there's going to be a balance of uh or a mixture of schools and and that may include a mixture of school configurations. Uh but there should be a um a way that we're looking at those that we want to really attend to and make sure that we're attending to unattended unattended consequences. Um I'm hearing quite a bit about split feeders and sort of what that looks like and and means as we go through. And um some pieces around uh I

111think what I I I believe I heard Dr. Armstrong say is that there may be some things um that we need to look at or address. um um immediately as as we go through and that that would be uh also part of what the analysis would be as we go forward. Um and I appreciate the the uh the statement of um everything is on the table, right? And so what does that look like when we're looking at um things not in a localized way, but we're going to end up going between a global view, but then also really be specific. I appreciate the students comments about um what your experiences are and then really thinking about uh how do we incorporate intentionally uh the experiences of students that may be most impacted and families that

112most be uh impacted and so also uh just relying on the wisdom of our youth. So appreciate the afternoon. >> Thank you so much. uh really appreciate the information and the opportunity to get to share what we're thinking so far. Um just I just I think you know what I'm going to say. We were not laughing at you. I >> we were laughing at Patty's cat which I don't know if you could Oh, you could see it. Good. So, we're very It was I was trying to I appreciate I appreciate the um I appreciate the the clarity and also want to acknowledge that uh that when we're at our homes, there's lots of uh uh family members that may join us in the in these conversations. So, thank you for that. Um, are there any

113topics that uh anyone like would like us to consider for future board meetings or future committee meetings? I I guess I we kind of heard one earlier, but I think it would be interesting because I think it's like related but sidebar and probably more related to Candace's phase one enrollment conversation. But I do think as we're figuring out more information about the enrollment decline and just like understanding that I think that would be helpful. Um it it relates to this but it's not I don't think it necessar I think it can come alongside the growing great schools but I think it helps um for us to be able to understand it and but also so that we can help the public understand it. Um, and so I think the more that we can kind of

114shine a light on that going forward, um, I think that would be a cool topic for us to have at some point, maybe even the PSU folks come and tell us about their report or whatever floats your all's boat. But I think that would be um, a good topic in the future. >> Yeah, I think that's a good parallel conversation to have. And I mean uh both in terms of like why we're losing families but also what might bring families back and what we can care for in the re restructure. >> I think maybe for the focus option conversation wondering about the impact is there a disproportionate impact on certain schools andor neighborhoods. Maybe we can cover that at regular board meeting but maybe we cover it in TLE. that >> might also be helpful

115just to have a presentation on what the focus options are and that whole ball of wax. >> Yes. >> Okay. Any other topics? All right. Our next meeting of the teaching, learning and enrollment committee is scheduled for April 9th. At that meeting, we will receive an overview of the multiple language learner services we provide at PPS. And this meeting is adjourned.