2026-03-08 Board of Education Retreat

001start >> uh this retreat of the board of education for March 8th, 2026 is called to order. Meeting is being streamed live on PPS TV services website and on channel 28 and will be replayed for the next two weeks. Good morning early morning. Uh today we have Amy Cass and Sandy Hayes will be facilitating uh facilitating. Uh let's start with intros. Should we just go around start from with director Sullivan? >> Okay. have Patty Sullivan, um, board member, >> Kimberly Armstrong, superintendent, >> Christy Split, board member, Virginia, board member. >> Eddie Wong, board chair. And it's also the weekend, so I'm fine with going by Eddie. >> Uh, Michelle Chase Miller, board member. Stephanie Englesman, board member. >> Amy Cast, facilitator, >> and Sandy H, facilitator. >> Good. So, I'll just uh let you two

002take it away. >> So, good morning. Um, good news. We knew it was daylight savings Friday. Let me put that together and um we also thought it was starting at 9:30. So we have padded some time. So we're good and we're going to get through everything today. Um so we're just going to start with a goofy daylight savings time because I get it. Thank you all for being here. Thank you for recognizing when you looked at your clock this morning that oh my gosh, why does it say that? Um, and and I want to set the stage because the way I could tell this story would give you a very different impression of me. Um, my husband worked in the UK when my kids were little and I used to do the easy jet, which

003is the the you know, Spirit Airlines of Europe, uh, drop down menu and where is it cheap to fly to this weekend? And then we fly. So I had done that. We went to Paris and in true Paris fashion there was a protest and police and riot gear and tear gas and I'm walking along and by the way just in case you think this is a lovely romantic weekend I have my 5-year-old and my one and a half-year-old. So we're walking down the shay and it's a beautiful March day and there's police coming and tear gas and they're in riot gear and I'm thinking what have we done? And but then we look over and the Parisians of course are just sitting on the bench reading their papers smoking their cigarettes. They're not phased by

004this at all, but we're like, you know what? It's a little early to go to the airport, but we're just gonna we're done. And this has been a lovely trip, but we're going to head. So, we got in a taxi. We're on the way to the airport. And I kept looking at the clock, and it kept going, "What? There's something wrong with this clock? Why does it say an hour later than we think it is?" And my husband is doing some goofy, "Well, maybe you didn't change it, blah, blah." And I'm like, "No, no, that would be the wrong time." And then I finally leaned in. I is your clock right? And he said, "Oh, yeah. It was daylight savings time because back then we did in April and Europe does it in March." Oh,

005can you go faster? We're late. So, yeah, daylight savings time always catches us by surprise. So, thank you for being here. We really appreciate it. We're thrilled that uh we're back. Uh we really enjoyed our time with you guys in January and getting to know you and are very excited about this board and and the possibilities of what we're going to do for the students of the Portland School District. So we're going to do just a nice slow start here. Easy just check in. Um we were having some great conversations about different places and their fauna and flora and what they look like. So we're going to start with Patio. If you didn't live in Portland, where would you live? >> Boy, that's a hard one because Portland's kind of the best. So, I think

006I'd live in Spain. >> Spain. Okay, very good. >> San Francisco. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. 49ers. Um, I think I would live in like Lanzanita maybe. It's a little she something less she not coming to mind immediately. Lincoln City. >> Yeah. I need the beach though. Wheeler's inland. Yeah. Is Wheeler on the beach? Am I wrong? Isn't Wheeler like Nalamish? >> Yeah. >> So on the >> Oregon coast. Oregon coast. >> Yes. >> I would do Boston or Italy. >> Does this is it? Do we have to be able to afford it? >> No. >> This is going to be sad. >> Oh, Mexico City or Panama. >> Bermuda. >> Easy. Oh my gosh, >> Australia. That's amazing. I would >> I I would do upstate New York. >> I'm a forest girl. >>

007I'm a Vancouver, BC. >> I'm like, do you know the Sunset Garden Zones? I'm like Sy's a seven. Like >> Vancouver is my second. >> Yeah, Vancouver in the object portion of the universe. >> That's why I said we have to be 40. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's and that by the way along with San Francisco, but we don't live there, right? >> I settled on my coast town. It's Estoria, which is not the ocean, but water. >> Apologies for not giving that immediately to the city of >> Etoria. Okay, thank you. That was great. Okay, so we're back. We're going to focus on governance today. That was a big topic that came up of what what does governance look like? What does that mean? So, we're gonna I told she was clicking, so I knew

008I had covered everything I was supposed to on the slide. Uh, but the clicker is not working. So, >> we can we can do a manual. >> Oh, it's all good. >> Oh, >> there we go. Thank you. >> Okay, >> so um just a little peek behind the curtain here. We intentionally were not super structured last time because we needed to get to know you. earth issues, what things we needed to work on. So, it was a little less structured. We're more structured today. So, here's your agenda for those of you that need your road map of what is going to happen. So, we're we're in the welcoming and setting the stage stage. Um, we're going to do a recap of last time, review the elements of trust. We had just dipped our toes

009in the water of trust last time, so we're going to do a little more deeper dive. We're going to talk about governance. These are very fancy words, but we're going to talk about governance, what it looks like. There is lunch on the schedule. So, just and then there'll be a break later between lunch and the ending at 2:30. Um, we're going to talk about different ways to work with each other as a team um and some of the best practices. And then we're going to practice that uh around the email conversation. So, we're going to by the end of today, you're going to have a practice of how you handle emails that come to the board from the community. And then we'll wrap up and talk about next steps. >> Okay. Again, all pictures just

010like last time are your kids. So, they're all cute Portland kids. So, here we got a couple. Um, and we got to always start with it. This practice in our district, we got to start with a good quote. So, we got John Adams sharing with us and then we can talk about cute kids. Okay. So, these were just we got a thumbs up last time on basic norms of how we're going to work with each other today, staying engaged. Everybody did a great job. You don't even have your computers out, which is so lovely. We've had workshops where I I'm like, I've got to do the mom thing. Put your phone away. Geez. um honor each other ourselves, each other, and our group. Uh make space for everyone. Again, so if you feel like I've

011probably said everything I need to say, and I'm going to let some other people talk. Or even if I haven't said everything I want to say, I'm going to let some other people talk. Um yes, and over no but. That I'm a work in progress on that one. And don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. This is Amy and I's talk. We say this all the time. Well, you you're trying you get wrapped up in trying to make it perfect and you just need to move. You just got to get going and good enough. Okay, so here we go again. More cute Portland kids playing music. Got to love it. So, here we go. >> Here you go. >> Here we go. Okay, so we're going to practice engaging with each other.

012So, we're going to do uh an exercise called that's called Waffles versus Pancakes. Um I am a big fan of a website of uh icebreers that do not suck is the name that is designed for the inner lawyer, right? I don't do any of those touchyfey things. Um I was early on in my board and we were I don't know we had to do something where we stood in a circle and we had to look and if you made eye contact you were supposed to scream. It's like no not participating this is not me. Thank you anyways. Okay. So what we're going to do is uh the this exercise is you are going to pick one of two items. You're on a we're at Hawaii. We're in Australia. wherever we are and whatever item that

013the group picks. So, you're going to have a discussion of which one you're selecting, the other item then disappears forever. Okay? So, we're going to start easy with waffles versus pancakes. So, we're going to go around and you're going to explain which one you're selecting. I like waffles because I like pancakes. And then we're going to come to consensus as a team. And then the other one comes and then we're going to have the next round. So, we'll do a couple. It'll you'll get this. So, um I started with Patty last time, so I'm going to start with Stephanie this. >> Okay. So, um I choose waffles because because Right. >> Um I really suck at making them at home and I'm frustrated when I can't do it properly. And a good waffle is really

014great. Pancakes feel like they're more available everywhere. Um, and a waffle that's good stacked with fruit and syrup and whipped cream and bananas and all that stuff just feels like a treat. Um, yeah, I choose waffles also. I think the primary reason is because of the squares. They capture the butter and syrup in a way where you have a pocket of deliciousness whereas pancakes are just kind of a flat plane and you can fall off to the side. Um, also chicken and waffles is amazing and chicken and pancakes doesn't have the same doesn't doesn't hit the same. >> Um, I'm going to choose waffles also. I like them because they're uh tend to be cooked a little bit more. So, there's a little bit more crunch, a little bit more texture. I also love the

015as a butter lover. Um I love the idea of catching all that butter in the squares. But yeah, it's mostly for texture, crunchiness, toastedness. >> Since waffles are three for three, I'm going to have to pick pancakes. Um, well, but I think the reason I would pick pancakes is because waffles are always great. Pancakes usually are mediocre, but when you can make them great, they're amazing. And I think it it takes real skill to make great pancakes. And that's why I like p great pancakes. >> Yeah, >> this is a very difficult question for me because I love both and make both very. So, I'm going to go with waffles because of the crunch and the ability of the squares to to fold all that is good in fruit and syrup. And I also have

016uh a legendary story in my family. My husband got me a waffle iron for Mother's Day. >> And I was like, I'm supposed to cook breakfast for everybody now. And uh so I got him a panini press for Father's Day. >> Nice. >> What' you get it for? >> A panini press. so you can make us lunch. >> I love it. >> Um, I'll go for waffles just to be toward consensus. I don't have strong feelings. >> That's exactly why I'm picking waffles. I feel like they're both the same to me, but if everyone's with waffles, I can I can do waffles. >> And I choose waffles because it's something I don't make. So, it's a treat. And I make pancakes, but they're not great. So maybe if I had a great pancake, I'd have

017a harder choice. But the soaking of the syrup and the butter, they're a good vehicle for the >> We need to trade some recipes up. >> I know. I'm going to write these down and send them to everybody. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Let's see if anybody's mind has been changed as we've gone along. Um all in favor of waffles, just raise your hand. Okay. And pancakes. Okay. All right. So, >> it's all good. Proud pancake lover is kind of >> Oh, okay. So, um pancakes are gone. So, the next one and these aren't all going to be food, but it's easier to start that way. So, we're going to start with Michelle this time, and it's uh waffles versus hot dogs. Oh, waffles. Um, hot dogs can be like good in a certain way, but

018like objectively they're pretty gross, right? Like what do you think about what goes into them? I mean, I guess unless you have like a really good like high quality hot dog, but um a waffle is just delicious in a way that a hot dog isn't. And you can make it sweet or savory. You can't do that, too. A hot dog would be gross. >> I'm going to say hot dogs protein versus carbs. Um, also high quality, also as a race is a vegan and I love meat, but mostly the protein. Um, I'm going to go for waffles because um, you know, as mostly a vegetarian and also my sugar addictive addiction side would pick waffles all the time. >> I'm also with waffles very often. I am really compelled by the protein argument on hot

019dogs. However, we're on a desert island and we're trapped. And I feel like on like day two of hot dogs, I'd be like done with the hot dogs. So, I'm going to go with waffles and hope that they're some of the ones that have the protein in the batter. >> Hot dogs. Just a protein grilling open fire. >> Oh, Chicago style. Yeah, there for me it's hard because they're offered different places, different times, different mindsets. Um, so if I were at a place like for lunch and they offered both, I'd choose hot dogs. If it was breakfast, I'd choose waffles. But I guess I think I'll go with waffles because quality of hot dogs are not always apparent. Um, I am going to choose waffles because even though a good vegetarian hot dog can be

020delicious, the contents are also questionable and equally as processed. Um, and I was compelled by the sweet or savory comment about waffles. And so coconut flour adds a lot of protein to a waffle, which apparently I'm very bad at making at home. And maybe it's because of the coconut flour. I don't know. So waffles. >> Okay. So, um, all for keeping hot dogs. Raise your hand. Okay. And then waffles. All right. So, waffles stay. Hot dogs are out. Okay. We're going to start with Michelle this time. And now it's waffles versus guitars. >> Oh, definitely guitars. >> Um, guitars can't feed you, you know, physically, but they can feed you socially and emotionally. So they can make myriads of sounds. They can be healing in terms of playing it. Um, it's a string instrument, so

021the vibration's nice. Love a guitar. >> Yeah, I would give all the waffles guitar. >> Um, guitar as well. I'm a big music nut and the community building that's associated with music, how it brings people together. So again, the context is we're on a deserted island, right? >> So one goes away forever. >> Yeah. >> But we're on a deserted island. That's >> too The idea is you're in a place where once you've picked something, the other item is no longer an option. Okay. No longer. >> There's still possibilities of food that's not waffles. So that is correct. >> Also with guitar. I don't really love waffles as you may have noticed earlier. And um my husband playing guitar with my kids or friends singing is like pinnacle. So I'll go with that. >> I'll

022go with waffles because I love ac capella and I feel like the group can make sounds and music without instruments. Okay. You said we are fed so we're not worried about >> Yeah. You're not Nobody's starving in this. >> All right. Um Yeah. Okay. I'll go with guitar. >> Oh, do I have to say why? >> You don't have to say why, but I was just >> Well, because I know that especially that can bring a lot of joy to people to all people, not just the waffle. Um, I will choose not to test you. Um, because I probably go eat a waffle once a year maybe and barely a day goes by without the benefits in some fashion of guitars. So, I'll put guitars. I choose guitars, too. >> Yeah. >> All right. All

023in favor of guitars. Okay, so guitars go. All right, here we go. >> So, this one's to you, Eddie. It's guitars versus concrete. >> Well, there other materials available so to build stuff. So, guitars. >> Okay. Guitars. Yeah, guitars. I don't need the concrete. Back to the dirt >> or wood. >> Concrete. >> Do you want to explain why? >> Well, because you can build things and a foundation and like huts and um Yeah. I don't know what the shelter's like on this desert island. So, I'm thinking of longterm. >> Yeah. Got to have a little more context with these. Are we are we out in a snowstorm and need shelter or are we under palm trees? >> We're under palm trees. I'll choose guitar. >> Guitars. I mean, yeah, I want to keep guitars.

024>> I want to keep guitars, too. I feel like feel like a world of less concrete would just be softer and more beautiful. And then we would have guitars also, which are beautiful and healing. It sounds like a good world. I'm going to say concrete because there's a lot of uh good stuff happening with concrete right now and you needed to build cities and its foundation, you know, the symbology, it's a foundation. Um the exciting stuff happening with concrete right now is that um there's a mix that can be uh helped decarbonize the environment. So, it's a climate a climate remedy to and we're actually doing it here in Portland. And so, yeah, I I don't love concrete either as a building material, but uh it's really necessary to get cities built, and I like

025cities. Okay, let's see whose minds were changed. Um, all in favor of concrete. Okay, guitars. >> Man, this is a musical. >> Okay, Patty, which which one? I didn't I'm sorry, I didn't see your hand. Did you go up for concrete? Did you go up for guitars? Okay. Oh, I was kissing. >> Okay. All right. So, guitars are staying. And this one goes to Virginia. Is guitars versus ovens. >> I'll still choose guitars. For all reasons. >> Electric oven or like literally all ovens? >> All ovens. All kinds of >> I would much rather stove top still >> listen and make music than cook. Yeah, I'd rather cook. So, I'll go with oven. >> I'm going to go with oven. I mean, cookies. >> Oh, you can just throw that in there. >> I'll stick

026with guitars because we can be eating fruit off our palm trees. What do we have? Guitars. Uh, I'm going to draw back to a lot of the comments that were made about guitars versus waffles and about the um bringing togetherness and the like soul filling and all that stuff. Um, which when weighing the two, I will choose ovens because I feel like the lack of any kind of oven and I'm not just thinking the one at home that I use. Um, losing those would be harder for me than losing a guitar. I think ovens um because I'm just thinking about the ability to like feed a lot of people and um yeah like that it's not just like one type of oven like thinking about getting rid of any type of oven. Feel like that

027makes things challenging for people who need like I don't know to be able to produce a lot of food and just to be able to take care of people >> people who need bread. Um, I'm going to choose ovens also. I'm looking for an oven right now. I'm looking for a counter style oven and it's very hard to find the specs, but um, I love my oven. I love to bake bread. I love baking. I bake once a week at least. I'm going to say ovens. It's also the heart of the home in many homes. >> So, I have a question. Since like going last and I was going to say guitar, but then I was convinced to be oven. Do I go oven? >> If your mind was changed, >> but then when we

028after we vote, we don't say that our minds were changed. >> You can say it. >> You say I was persuaded. >> I was persuaded by cookies. >> So, >> not bread. >> I've been persuaded to change my vote because of the gathering. >> Mhm. >> Okay. So, let's take a vote. And all in favor of ovens. Okay. All right. Here we go. Um, so it goes to Christie and it's ovens versus newspapers. >> Does this include online newspapers? >> Journalism. H with all apologies to newspapers and journalism because I value them greatly. I'm going to go with ovens because I think they're just foundational. >> Yep. >> Ovens. I think we can start our own paper. >> This crew. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I'll go with excellent >> ovens as well because your reasoning

029newspaper and we don't know. Well, we'd get different newspapers, different opinions, but still ovens. We need ovens. >> Clarifying question. >> Can we start our own newspaper? Because I thought it was gone forever. >> It's gone forever. >> Okay. >> Oh, >> does that mean writing utensils and all? >> No, writing utensils stay just concepts. >> Oh, okay. >> Blog podcast. Um I uh I was going to say something and lost track of thought. Um I am squarely a newspaper. Um you said it because there are other methods of cooking available which could still be a gathering source and feeding source and a a good way to get all the nourishment and all of the community and all the togetherness still in. But particularly in today's world where journalism is gone and we are going

030going gone and we see the aftermath. Um I would love to go back to proper journalism and newspapers. Okay. So I have the opposite vote but for the same reason. Um, I think ovens can't lie to you and they can't promote propaganda and um, have a hard time seeing ovens is becoming obsolete. Um, go with ovens. I'm going to say ovens. Also, again, it's the heart of the home. Um, sourdough bread or any bread. Um, as long as those ingredients are there in the starter, I'm I'm for the ovens. sourdough starter that is. >> What if there's no sour? >> There's always going to be waste in the air. So, there's always something to draw on. >> I'm going to pick newspapers and journalism because going back historically, it was the print that started the

031path towards democracy. And I believe that real journalism is one of the foundational pillars of a working democracy. I agree 100%. I am firmly in the newspaper camp. Um because it is the backbone of our democracy. Without a free press, we are we are prisoners. So that's how I feel. I feel very strongly about that. >> Okay. So let's we're going to do a vote. Uh all in favor of newspapers. >> I changed my mind. I'm changing my vote since I can't start. Oh, they you can't start. >> Can't start one. >> Oh, you can't even have gone forever. >> Oh, okay. >> Okay. Just make sure I'm I saw what I saw. Ovens. All in favor of ovens. Okay. All right. So, newspapers. >> Okay. And Amy, I'm gonna trust you that. So, when

032we have about 10 minutes left, that's when I need you to stop me. >> Okay. All right. So, we're um this goes to you, Kimberly. It's newspapers versus clothes. >> Oh, that's awkward. >> Clothes. >> Oh, newspapers. I don't need clothes. If none of us have clothes, it won't matter. It won't work. >> I mean, yeah. Like >> I am very persuaded by that. If none of us have it on, we wouldn't know we don't that we need it. So newspapers >> clothes. I don't want to be cold. >> Could be around the oven. >> The ovens are gone. Um I'm going to I went to fashion school. I'm going to say clothes. I love textiles and I like the idea of being able to cover myself in the rain. No, but now you can't

033have any newspapers. >> Well, you could cover yourself with your newspaper. >> I've seen a wedding dress made out of newspaper. Um there used to be a fashion show called Junk to Funk every year here. >> Um and it was really beautiful. I've also seen um coffee cups, a whole wedding dress may have used coffee cups, >> but I I still say clothes. >> Are we talking about like all clothes? Like you can't even put on like you found a blanket on the floor and put it on you. >> How close? and we don't know what climate um I'm going to pick close then because it's survivable and as like someone who has you know taught biology and part of his evolutionary biology part of human survival was the fact that we lost our fur

034which meant we could stay cooler in hot weather but then have the brains to create clothes so that we can stay warm in cold weather which is an adaptation that no other animal had. So >> yeah, that's just survival. >> This is really tough. >> Very tough. Um, >> you almost had me. I'm going to pretend it's really warm. It's a warm island and uh it's it's tough. But I because of that, I'm going to make that assumption. I would I would go with newspapers because I feel so strongly about sharing of information. I think I'm going to go with clothes. It's also not an easy call, but again, ovens foundational. I stuck with ovens. Um I think it's the same sort of thing. >> Okay. So, um all for newspapers. >> Okay. Close. All

035right. Clothes make it through. All right. We're just going to do two more. Um, okay. So, this one, this one's going to unear some interesting. Uh, so Patty, it's clothes versus dogs. >> As pets, like this doesn't mean like horrible things going to happen to all dogs, but dogs. >> They're just not safe. Yeah. Yeah. >> Uh, I choose clothes. I will choose dogs. Um because I still think if we don't have them, we don't know we don't have them. I think it would be good for um population control because we wouldn't live in the cold places anymore. We would have to migrate and stop reproducing, which would be bad for public schools. Um uh and I have never cried when I've lost even my favorite piece of clothing. And I have shed many a

036tear when even someone else's dog has has passed, let alone my own. >> And go with clothes. If dogs don't exist, we don't know that we love dogs and miss them. Biology. >> I'd say clothes also. Um I believe there's way too much dog poop in the world. Come at it from a climate perspective. Um, it's not disposable necessarily. Um, I love clothes. I would shed tears over clothing, but um, not dogs necessarily. >> There's this old TV show called Naked Afraid. >> Oh, yeah. >> A lot of tears were shed over not having clothes in that. So, I picked clothes. >> Um, I didn't have to think about this for a millisecond. I absolutely picked dogs. um because of the companionship and loyalty and unconditional love, they can keep you warm. I have shed

037many, many tears over losing um a dog and yeah, get a little emotional talking about it. I love my dog. >> Idiot being naked with a dog is enough to have me on team clothes. The dog work >> living close. >> Close. >> Okay. All in favor of clothes. >> Okay. All right. Last one. And I think I'm back to Stephanie. So is clothes versus bathrooms. >> Bathrooms. >> Running water, toilets, sinks. >> I mean, there's like a true survival, right? Because I've been in parts of the world where there are bathrooms and I've seen what it can do to communities. Um, and internationally we pour millions into trying to bring running water to communities. And I will choose bathrooms. You choose clothes because for most of our existence as human beings, we haven't had

038bathrooms. I think you can still have running water without necessarily having a bathroom. It's bathrooms. It's not kitchens. Um, and it doesn't mean that we don't have the knowledge of how to have sanitation just because we don't have a bathroom. Um, so I'm going to go with clothes. I'm going to go with clothes for roughly the same ideas that humans have gotten along for eons without plumbing. Um, running water is a different story. Um, also clothes, fashion. Yeah, choose fashion over I've been in pit toilet situations and they're not awesome. Clothes are really awesome. >> Yeah, clothes for the same reason. And you know, pits work. >> Thank you. >> Again, this is this is really tough. Two very compelling compelling arguments. For me personally, I think I would go with bathrooms for sanitary reasons.

039So, keeping it all in one place versus Yeah, it's tough. It's tough call. I could go either way. I'm going to go with clothes. We lived for a long time without bathrooms, like somebody said, and we can do it again. I also don't really feel like a lack of a bathroom means a lack of running water because there's other parts of a house that have water. So, yeah. I don't know. >> If running water was part of it, I would definitely use the bathroom of the house. The running water. Yes. >> I think I'm persuaded to keep clothes. Well, again, there's so much context because bathrooms like Jimmy Carter did a lot of good work getting bathrooms in Africa that just actually just outouses that meant a big change in health of the people. So,

040I mean, if you've got running water and the only thing you're missing is a toilet seat, I guess I choose clothes, but I think I'm going to go with bathrooms just because we don't know. We have to have sanitary facilities. So, I'm going to the bathroom. >> Okay. Uh, all in favor of bathrooms and close. >> I was persuaded because you can wash your hands. >> I don't like the idea. >> You can. >> Hey, thank you so much. That was really well done. I loved seeing you listen to each other, really lean in to process with each other. And I loved hearing. I was persuaded by and I have changed my mind and I learned from and because this there were parts of this were silly, but a lot of this was the type

041of decisions that you all have to make on the diets, right? really tough decisions and you can't see what happens if we don't pick option B. I don't know what the consequences are going to be. But once I've picked A, A, it is we can't go back, right? We can't Oh, wait. No, never mind. I didn't I didn't see that. That was right. You have to stick with it and you've got to keep moving forward. So that you guys did a beautiful job uh reflecting what made that different than what you do on the diets. >> We went in order and also because everyone knows they only have kind of like one opportunity to say their piece. kept it to the point, concise, and >> yeah, >> they weren't really decisions that are going to

042affect other people. >> So, it was a little easier to make them. >> I'd maybe argue that we didn't have like preconceived notions heading into the conversation because we weren't expecting to have it. So, we didn't come in with like positions already kind of set. >> We considered what other people were saying, which I don't feel like we do when we're in there. >> Agreed. >> So, I I think also there was a lot of grace in this exercise, you know. noticeably graceful versus how we operate when we're in that room behind us. Um, people were graceful with one another and I thought that was really noticeable. So, a couple of follow-up questions. Is there any reason you couldn't have this same practice when you're voting on the consent agenda with the minutes? I don't

043need to do this. But could you have that same practice when you're doing a harder decision where everybody speaks, there's an order to the speaking and you know that you speak once. Is there any reason you couldn't do that? An opportunity and then you can have followup. Right now you said this and I want to follow up. >> You just go around everybody and then go around. >> Yeah. a process. >> Yeah, I mean I I think we can and definitely want to. I think one of the things that's been causing confusion is that we have two types of board meetings. We have like work sessions and then we have regular board meetings. And during regular board meetings, you know, the policy states that, you know, we follow Robert's rules of order, which is everyone

044gets two times to speak, keep it limited 10 minutes, you know, etc. Um and I think that really that helps in that kind of setting. But then when we have work sessions which is designed to be more open and more free flowing and kind of discovery and having um feedback questions and answers with staff um that we don't follow that then and I think because of that lack of consistency >> it's been very difficult to you know keep consistency I guess. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, a couple thoughts of, you know, love me some Robert's rules, but sometimes it makes it too formal and hard to >> flexible. We're going to use the word poly crisis a lot. In the era of poly crisis, it's hard when you're tied into that. And sometimes when you're told

045you have 10 minutes to speak, you think I am going to use up the whole >> 10 minutes, right? That if you don't have that strict time limit, then it nobody talks for 10 minutes. So that's good because man our threeminut public comment people like I got to use up my entire three minutes there's really you're repeating yourself. Um but so we even when it's not a decision having a practice and that's kind of your job as facilitator as president and I'm picking on you because you're the president whoever the president is is to make sure that everybody has a chance to speak because yes in those topics even if it's a work session and you're not voting it's tough and you want to make sure and then that also helps those that want to

046say a thought recognize oh that other people need a chance and so it's just a kind of I do a little mental sometimes I even write it down oh I haven't heard much from Patty on this topic so just Patty you haven't had you haven't said much is there anything you want to add and Patty certainly can say no I'm good I've just been listening um but it also gives her space I will I will tell you I did this once with the board um that I was working with and I was like Tim we haven't heard much from you he went on for 20 minutes. I was like, "Okay, note to self, check." He's not shy. He's not an introvert. He was just waiting for an opening. Um, so understanding that uh about you.

047Um, other other thoughts. Yeah. So if you go around, which you do often call around, it would seem that that way if somebody has a disagreement with someone, instead of just answering right away, you have to wait till your turn comes around again. So it's not like an argument. So I like really like that. >> Yeah. That kind of gets back into that whole deliberation versus >> Well, it's more deliberative, right? Can can I make an observation as well listening to you all? If you think back to those conversations scaffold, you were actually doing a lot of that. You were doing yes and you were building off of each other. Even if the perspectives weren't identical, that was okay. You were still doing a yes and you were making space for everyone. You actually were

048very intuitively doing those practices when you were doing that. So just um kind of sticking that in your tool belt to go forward. You have those skills for sure. Yeah. Um, and I liked and the one of the reasons that we make you say the because part of it is again not the consent agenda, you know, approval of the minutes. Uh, but the public needs to know your thinking. Uh, we've had some moments where we took a vote and the public was surprised like, oh, I didn't they they just said no. I don't have any idea why they said no. and then they are happy to fill in why you said no, right? And and so it's an having those moments u in study sessions but also then on the dis where it is going

049to be a typical vote making sure everybody gets this chance and then you as an individual have to make sure I'm explaining my thinking. I am going to vote for this because or I'm gonna vote against this because so that the public understands how you came to that decision. It really calms things down. Um and you did that beautifully here. So you can do this. And so that's um just any last thoughts of what can we take forward? What would what made this different? I like the way that we did this because like you knew you were going to have your opportunity to speak and you you had to kind of think of everything that you wanted to say and was going to be important in that and then like that's your moment. You get

050to make your case and then it's on to the next person. >> And I think we do like a lot of cross talking. Um, and I know that I can be guilty of that because I don't know like that I'm going I feel like I might not get the opportunity to be like yes and or whatever. Um, but I think if we all know like how it's going to flow and that we're all going to get the chance to share our why, um, it actually makes us better listeners because we are not like like jockeying for that opportunity but like can actually be present with what other people are saying because we know that we'll have the opportunity to speak. Also, >> I also think the majority vote. Um, and then like letting go of

051like, oh, okay, mine wasn't picked, but that's part of the majority. That's what it means to be with a group, right? I'm not going to always get what I want, but it's just that's that's just what it is. And it just seemed to be like, oh, nope, not mine. Moving on to the next. >> Yeah. You you nobody carried a grudge. I didn't hear you come back to, "Yeah, but you didn't pick this. I do. >> I want to go and have >> Yeah, that's a good point. >> But and I also like the idea of going around twice, which we don't often do >> because you can just say, "No, I don't have anything more." But >> yeah, >> like >> I mean, in our regular board meetings, there should be the opportunity under

052Robert's rules to go around twice. >> Yeah. But and I think there are, but we aren't actually called on. >> I see. Yeah. Formally. >> Do you abort? agree with what so then like you said are you thinking you know I'm saying too much or whatever just >> yeah that's a good >> to know you're having >> clarifying point >> would you rather because often times at the end of towards the end discussion I'll pause and wait and be like does anyone else have any to kind of give the opportunity but if you prefer to be called on >> I mean I sort of happy to do that maybe everybody else doesn't but just to be able to say no thank you for Okay. >> But >> gives you another time to >> one time

053or twice. >> Twice. >> Okay. >> Because you might want to respond to what somebody else said, but you don't want it like an argumentative >> kind of one-on-one arguing. It's just getting your >> that is one thing that's really nice about the idea of going around twice that I just thought of um when Patty was talking is like we have a tendency to like hear something and then respond to it and not be like controlled about it if that makes sense. And so like somebody says something and somebody else is like I disagree here's why. If we go around in order then that's less likely to happen. And if we go around twice, it gives that chance to respond to something that you heard, but it's not like immediate. So, you actually have like

054a few minutes to formulate your thought and maybe like dial it down a little if you're feeling frustrated because you have some time to like marinate on it and think about how you want to respond and might be a little bit less um coming from me, this might be ironic, but a little less emotional >> and somebody else may say what you're already thinking and then you can just go. >> Sure. Yeah. And then you don't have to say it again. >> Yeah. What she said. And it it helps to >> or then there's an opportunity. Wait, I'm the only one that heard it that way. >> Yeah. By not having an order, it just becomes like a back and forth. And that's just more like a >> that's set up more for conflict than

055for resolution. Maybe. I was going to say um uh I think I liked this because except when I went first or I didn't have the time to really formulate by the time we got around to Patty when I went first I had been persuaded um in some instances and so I couldn't on the you know the drop come up with every thought that I might have. Um and so going around twice might be good because it would allow someone who who had to go first. Now granted, it's different because we are not being sort of dropped with a decision to make without any preparation or time. So it's a little different in that regard, but I like the idea of going around twice um in order. It's I think it's really important um for me

056for this to work, anything to work um like trust in each other that it's okay to voice in a thought or an opinion or something that's perhaps different maybe perhaps from the entire rest of the DAS without um without any repercussions or worries about that because it's just sort of a a conversation and a thought process and perhaps saying something and then listening might end up making someone me, whoever is saying it, changed their mind. Um, which ties into the third part about like there just needs to be board support for the conversation and the process and the dialogue in order for it to work. Because the idea of just going around twice um works only as well and as long as we are also allowing each other to have the space to have different

057thoughts and different ideas and to be persuaded or to not be persuaded and and then to have a vote and then to move on and not you know not have it be a personal um process. It was it was a vote. it didn't go my way and you move on >> because it does become personal and I'm thinking about sometime you were talking I think about late starts or something and I I'm sitting next to you and I responded but if it had been going and to me it seemed like I was just arguing with you >> but if we you know it had been taking turns and then I I said oh in my opinion blah blah blah then it's not an argument >> or it's not putting somebody else on a spot. So

058that's why I like that. And all you have to say is no, I have nothing else to add. if you don't >> I hadn't thought of like when when somebody says something and then we just respond to what they're saying it does become an argument or a debate between two people versus if we all have a turn and we're going in order and we're just sharing how we feel about it. it becomes less of like a personal thing and more of a um opportunity just to share our opinion thing. >> Kind of like just what we did in this exercise. Yeah, >> very >> and we could have gone around again. >> It would have been different answers. >> I'm going to I'm going to offer my opinion. Um I like the idea of trying

059it. Um, I've shared with some of you offline that one of my um, frustrations was constantly being interrupted and I feel that this sort of format could minimize that because that was definitely becoming a big frustration of mine. And um, but I would also like to consider an opportunity to ask questions of each other maybe at the end because what I'm hearing is we're offering opinions but like you know I might have a question for Michelle or for Steph or for Christie. Where's my opportunity to ask questions? So that's that would be mine. >> Round two. >> Like round two, round three. Round three. >> That that's an interesting concept to because I don't know that we've ever had that where we're Well, what do you think about it, you know? Um, in other words,

060because I think that could turn into an argument on the deis. >> Well, I might have a question about your point of view. >> Yeah, exactly. And it might be, you know, I might have already stated what my point of view was. and then I then I would be in a position to defend it. >> So, you know, I think it could >> So, how does that play out? I I've never um I don't remember recall having that dynamic in the past. >> You know, I think it could be really important to seek clarity. Um it is easy again within the fishbowl of a schoolboard meeting as we're being live streamed. You know, sometimes we're processing out loud and perhaps things aren't as clear, things maybe we might say things in a way that we

061didn't intend. So having clarifying questions I think it depends on the structure of the of the questions but but that reflective question of that what I heard you say was this am I understanding your point correctly >> because I'm because I was considering this point seeking clarifications I think could be really powerful. Could we do that like between rounds? Like if we go all the way through and then we have a pause for clarifying questions and then maybe we go through one more time >> or I think that sounds fine. Or it could just be like round two just like do you have any questions or further comments, you know, and then you just kind of cover both in that that spot. >> But I I do think it's being able to ask questions. I

062think I think it's helpful. I understand your concern about how it we just have to like trust like the intentions of the other people. I think um and just try to be as like really I'm trying to think of how to say this because I realize decorum is like a little bit loaded but like um just be thinking about like how can I ask this question in a way that's not going to do that. Like it's like two-way street. Like as you ask, be considerate and as you listen to something being directed at you, try not to take it as an attack, but more as an opportunity to like further your message. Like your point, I think it can work. I just think we need to like really focus on not being offensive or defensive.

063I guess >> I Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yeah, I think one of the to kind of build on that especially that defensive off um one of the benefits of doing that two round thing is that it forces well two things. It it um promotes listening instead of just waiting to talk, right? Or especially if like someone says something triggering like maybe Virginia says something and I might be triggered at the moment, but I know that I have to wait my turn. I have some time to process, think about it, and then work on my response um in a more thoughtful manner rather than reactive, right? And I think and so I mean that was one of the reasons why in in our or no, sorry, that one of the things that I liked about

064the Roberts rules is that that's what it was kind of designed for to create more of that kind of like not a like argument but more of a deliberative. So I my question is then I also am really for just having this like round system two rounds because the other thing it does is also is that you if you know your turn's coming up but you got to wait your turn and you have a you know a a moment you know to shine you're going to work on your response you know think it through before and it creates more deliberation just internally as well. Um, but my question is that perhaps it may be helpful to do two rounds and at the end you can ask for clarifying questions. I have an opportunity for for

065that. >> Yeah. Do you still have >> I just have a question about that because just thinking back to the round that we did anytime that we wanted to clarify we directed it over your way and not to others. like I didn't see at one point someone says so tell me wait what you don't you know I don't know if I've seen us or the the um board where the asking of questions to each other go go go well um and so I guess I wonder in all of this just as you all in your experience out in the field like what do you see and what would you recommend >> yeah I have several thoughts and I can talk Michelle so one yes it's a really good idea to ask clarifying questions of Kimberly.

066So I just heard R and I'm just making stuff up here. So I just heard Relle say that purple carrots have better nutritional value than orange carrots. Is that does that back your understand you know is it that proposal that you're bringing forward that we only have purple carrots in schools. Is that why? Right. So it's directing to you because you are the one bringing the motion forward. Right. you're the one saying this is what we recommend that you vote for and so clarifying question. So somebody says something and you're like wait that when I read in the board briefing or when I read in the information on this item I don't remember seeing that. So rather than it becoming this back and forth of that's not what it said or that's not what's going

067to happen or not whatever then you you ask that clarifying question of Kimberly of okay so I heard somebody say rather than Patty said right I heard someone say that orange purple carrots have better nutritional value is that part of the reason we brought this whatever right so clarifying questions also then Eddie your job is to is that in fact a clarifying question because uh nothing drives me more crazy and I when I both in my state role and my board role is like no get to the question mark you're just now grandstanding here or you know now you're just using this as an attempt to attack someone right so and it's that um Amy gave a great example of what I heard said was um and she did this masterfully when we had a

068board member that had no filter between brain and mouth. And so >> even with the best attention, she had no filter. >> No filter. And so and there were some spectacular moments and she stayed so calm. It was amazing. But so what I heard you say was and and that is a good when something really off the rails has just come out, right? So what I heard you say was that carrots are terrible altogether and we shouldn't, you know, they're poisonous for kids. Oh no, no, no, that's not what I was saying. Right. So it gives them an opportunity of like, oh, is that how that was heard? The other beauty of having time before you respond is then you can hear what other people have heard. Right? If other people are saying, "Oh, I'm

069really concerned about what I just heard to then you're like, okay, I'm not alone." Or if nobody else heard it, then it's kind of like, "Oh, maybe maybe that's not the way it was intended." >> Can I tag on real quick? >> Yeah. And I'm sorry to to interrupt the flow here real quick, but did I I'm using a reflective question because I need to, but did I hear the proposal be that Okay, we're going to have folks everyone weigh in twice and then go to questions. I don't know if maybe it would be better to have if there's clarifying questions to have them in the moment to clear up to clear up misunderstandings. And again, if they're clarifying questions like, okay, I just want to make sure I understood you correctly before you go

070around because otherwise um the context could get lost >> maybe. >> Yeah. No, just as is be before it's time to move on to the next person. If anyone has clarifying questions, they could whatever you whatever process you have on the DAS or at a work session, say, "Oh, I have a question." Um but you might not and it can keep moving smoothly. But I think for clarity it might be best to ask it when that person >> I think to Kimberly I think the clarifying question until there's >> depending on the context except we we were talking about asking each other and so I wanted to weigh in that I had a couple of concerns about that one I have a question about how race and gender dynamics play into that. >> It's just

071a question open question. I can have my own opinions about that and I do have strong opinions about it. Just curious if um if individual board members say something once then it sounds like we would have the opportunity to to clarify. Um I'm I'm just curious about that. Um, the other thing is I, as I understand it, our meetings aren't conversations. And so if we get into this kind of back and forth like what did you mean about attendance policy? Then it turns into a dialogue versus a board meeting. And our meetings are already really long. And I'm looking for ways that we, you know, investigate, interrogate how long our meetings are. and some of the some of the ways that we show up for our meetings could be shortened by a little bit if

072if we didn't have as much dialogue um and you know maybe verbal processing on the dis uh which I'm guilty of as well. Um anyway, it's just a question I have about that questioning the board like if I hear from somebody I'm going to believe that I'm not going to want to interrogate them. I want to believe what I heard them say >> about an attendance policy, about a late start policy. I'm not going to question them on or try to change their minds or really need I don't think need more clarification. I could be alone in that, but I I'm wondering where it stops being a board meeting and starts being a dialogue about clarifying. You know, >> back to Stephanie and then >> Oh, sorry. I was I was I think I heard

073Christie say in the middle because I think if um just to go if you were to ask me a question in the middle then it's going to our round table is going to fall apart really fast because I might have already gone two times and then we get to you and you ask me a question and then suddenly it's back to me to respond and then I think we're going to fall into what we've had happen before. Um, and so I like I like the middle driven by our chair and directed with a question to our superintendent who should have the information because if someone is saying something that's contrary to what I thought was the attendance issues, then presumably you have the answer. And so I can say, "Oh, I heard Virginia say that

074we don't actually have a dip in attendance with, you know, lunch being at 3 p.m. Is that right? I thought for sure we would, you know, blah blah." And then you could say, "Well, actually we don't or we do or I don't have that information. and we can get it to you. And so it allows for a clarifying question with the person or your team who has the information or can provide it to us without our hopefully newfound roundt procedure falling apart really quickly or feeling defensive by someone asking a question. Um, and if you don't have any clarifying questions, fine. And a clarifying question that you ask of Kimberly might help me formulate that I either have nothing in second round or oh wow I've been persuaded in second round or you know I

075thought of something else in second round. Like it could be a chance for a a formal process getting answers without I just see it quickly falling apart if we are just having a moment where we're all just asking randomly of each other >> or or I'm just imagine myself like wanting to go around. How how do you feel about it? How do you feel about it? How you know, I want you to clarify your >> That's pretty much going to say what Stephanie said. And >> if we're not going to ask each other why you think that way, well, we might, but if it has to do with a policy that we just don't understand, then we can ask Kimberly what it is. So, u we're not arguing with each other about what the policy

076is. We're finding out what the policy is, and then we can either question it or not. But >> and that's in a nutshell the challenge of this work because at seven people governing you know a many million dollar 50,000 student there isn't really space for a genuine socratic dialogue right and so you have to have structures in place in order to your point Michelle for the work to get done in a way where you can all do the job that you were elected to do right I'm representing the community hears my voice but in a way where things move along. Yeah. >> Yeah. I just want to second what you two are about to are saying. I one thing I I do want to add and I also want to hear what you two your

077experience because um um Amy you brought up like sometimes clarifying questions you know should it be at the moment or should we wait for two rounds. I know that sometimes some people have a hard time like there's benefits for to happen immediately because I know that sometimes like people might get hung up on a confusion and then it make you know stops them from listening for the rest of the conversation because they're hung up on it. But my big thing is like um I would I just want the process to be clear and fair for everyone. And the reason I want it clear is that because you know You know, it's like if you have a basketball game, right, but you're you allow one team to double dribble, not the other team. It's an unfair

078competition. And you know, there's some of us that may be good at like uh working the the the system or barging in conversations or whatnot or speaking their peace and others may not. So, and that that's not necessarily fair. So, I think I like this. I like the where this conversation is going going around twice, but having time for clarifying questions. For me personally, I would just like to know have clarity on what the process is for that so it can be enforced evenly on enforced is the hard word. It can be we can practice it the you know fairly you know consistently for everybody. Does that make sense? >> I'm going to try something Michelle. >> Oh yeah. >> I I did I went out of turn so it was Patty's turn. I heard

079that and I in the moment >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So something What can we do? I'm I have no sal people. I would be the I just never say anything because I can't get a word. So, we have a thing in our district where we turn our name tags on the side. It's kind of like raising the hand and then the board president knows. And so, that may be something as you're going around uh that if you have a clarifying question, you turn it up on the side. I would really encourage as the team is building and there may be a point where you can just ask clarifying questions but as you're getting started with this process that clarifying questions go and then that takes it out of the attacking each other and it

080and then you're you're forced to clarify questions right if I'm asking I heard this okay and then >> um this is a a little bit off track but still a little bit in line. Um I thought for a long time that we should have agreements like the agreements that we talked about at the start of our session today. um like as a teacher and as a director at a nonprofit where I work now, like we have agreements that everyone is familiar with so that when stuff starts to go off rails, we can say, "Hey, like let's remember our shared agreement to um whatever whatever it is." Um, but it just kind of gives us all like we're operating out of the same manual basically. And I mean depending on what they are like we are

081assuming good intent. So when somebody says something that doesn't land quite right, we have that check for ourselves to be like, okay, I didn't really like that, but I'm going to like suspend judgment and listen to the rest of the conversation and maybe ask a clarifying question later. And that gets us to a different place than it does where we're like, I can't believe she just said that. Oh my god. >> You bring a lot of things down. We're in a parking lot. My husband is an engineer. I was like, you guys don't build parking lots. Why are you talking about engineering world? You know, probably don't say parking. That is just weird. Use the words that you need. Okay. So, we're going to parking lot that because that is a great idea. But >>

082I'm impressed that your husband listens intently enough to hear the word parking lot over and over. >> Well, I think he just kept hearing parking lot. He's like, what are they doing? Um, also have been a strong advocate of developing, especially as this new team has formed. We've been together since July 1st. Um, creating a set of operating agreements that we can all agree on. maybe every that everybody picks one or we agree on a on a set of uh ways that we can operate and I I think that I mean I know in my own job we do this in in front of every single meeting we talk about what we agree to we we tend to impact versus intent versus impact um we talk about you know interruptions we talk about holding each

083others to a high standard and I think I think it would be helpful in this group to to to review it in front of every meeting. >> I do. I think it would help. I mean, I can see some of Yeah. Again, parking lot. >> Parking lot. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Oh, I was just going to respond to the the name tag on that side. During board meetings, I you know, I I often watch for people's fingers on the >> You do a good job. >> You are good. >> And that's that's my hint of who wants to talk next. I know city hall they have their hand raising thing on the computer. I think it's through Zoom, but I'm not sure. Um, and so yeah, it does help. But just so everyone knows,

084that's what I watch for is when you have your finger on the button eye contact. >> If you're going around just around, you don't have to. >> Yeah. But one one of my suggestions about the clarifying questions is that I think it would I I like that. I really like the idea. I think it it is helpful to have it in the middle of the round or even after the round or both. But I also think it's very important that we like I think you mentioned this earlier that when someone has a clarifying question, it needs to be enforced that it is a clarifying question and not another chance to talk, right? And so like if someone says like you know Virginia's asking, hey Michelle sent something or maybe you know like it's another one

085of our words that we use like point of order or call a question we have clarifying question. And it's like, okay, allow it have a clarify question for Michelle or Kimberly. And the answer also has to be also not an opportunity to to to talk and and to the point. And so my question is like what does that kind of enforcement look like? And what would people I'm jumping and getting ahead of myself? part of again at the beginning I think clarifying questions all go to Kimberly >> like context like contextual factual technical clarifying questions as opposed to I misunderstood >> there's context where we have staff too so if you often if the staff get asked you will say if you want to be the one to answer it in my experience right does

086that make sense that it's like if there's other people in front of us that were >> then it might be those people so I just don't want to say it has to be you that answers right >> no no I appreciate Yeah, you guys. >> Oh, go ahead. >> Just really quickly, you probably noticed that after all the presentations, the team kicks it back to me and that's pausing for like if there's clarifying questions, >> ask superintendent or, you know, I'll kick it to them or or whatever, but they're intentionally throwing it back in before um going to questions to see what clarification you want. >> So, you're the quarterback. >> Yeah. >> Does that make sense? >> And then if you don't want to answer it, you call on the staff. Yes. >> Okay.

087>> And that that also helps diffuse the question, right? >> Again, and there will be moments. All rules have an exception, right? All lawyers know that, you know, except for um so there'll be moments where that's not going to quite work and you'll have to figure it out in the moment. But I think to begin with that forces you to then ask a clarifying question because it's going to Kimberly. And so then and then it's not and I'm attacking Virginia because I didn't like what she said. I really am. I'm just Whoa, that's new information. I didn't understand the reading when I read it that way. I need to get clarified. Uh the other is what are we doing? That is also a really good clarifying point. Why are we having this conversation? Where is

088this going? Right. >> Yeah. >> Uh and that goes to Eddie, right? Is this are we asked that we're having this conversation because this is going to be a vote that we're having. We're just prepping it, right? What and so you have to be that's your job as president and that's the hard work is is to be really clear why we're having that conversation. Our board is having a tough conversation on Monday and I am doing a lot of guard rails beforehand with our superintendent and staff of no we're not no we're not doing that because this is the goal of the conversation. So that also can be a clarified question because sometimes and you're like wait what are we talking about? Why are we here? >> Yeah, I'd like to add a plus one

089to that because in terms of the the very valid point where you don't want to have board meetings going on forever if you understand that okay this is a very you you know like the example of later start times like that's a complicated in so many ways conversation. You might be scheduled for three conversations of that and understanding okay this is just the first fact gathering and then we're gonna do more study and then we're g understanding that will help limit the scope of the conversation. >> Um also to to add a plus one to board gnomes I was or agreements creating agreements I was trying to dig through my computer because you all have a board protocol policy correct you know it might be something to think about for May maybe maybe opening that

090up and talking about that because that would be a perfect tool to help support creating agreements. >> Well, I think that is on the to do for I think we were planning at to have that conversation June. >> Perfect. Perfect. Because I think that's a great tool to use um to get some of these things down. >> I just have one thought because I want to if that's okay and then we can wrap up. I don't want to I'm not trying to be the last word, but if you are trying to wrap up and I'm talking when you don't want me to, sorry. But um I was thinking about Eddie and like the sort of discomfort that comes with having to like regulate on us as our facilitator in meetings. Um and it might be

091interesting to like figure out what are some deliberative bodies that you could just kind of watch how other people do it. I always think about what are other states doing, you know, to like get ideas. So that's one thought I have on like enforcement. Um, it could be worth like a contact to some of the national groups like hey like who who's like a really experienced and like because I bet people will kind of know who's really good at running meetings as a schoolboard um chair. You two might have ideas too to just watch those meetings and just see what they do. The other thing that I think is really important is like just making sure that you're sitting back in that conversation. And this is like hard to do, but like I think you

092have to like put down your own feelings about an issue and make sure that you're just being really equal in how you um do the enforcement. And like it might be, you know, you might feel really uncomfortable reigning in your vice chair, you know, but you have to do that to the extreme extent you would anybody else at the table. So I think that's the two pieces of advice from kind of watching a lot of committee meetings for 20 years now. Um, you know, I've seen where they, you know, let the Democrats because they're Democrats do things but then they call out the Republicans and stuff and I just don't want don't want you to fall into that trap because I've seen it. >> Yeah. Thank you. Those are my two thoughts from years of

093watching committee chairs. >> I had a question a clarifying question. >> Um did >> so to me to us >> we're going to model that. So you're going to ask us and then we'll >> did we solve the question about if you have a question from a colleague not the superintendent. I was I was trying to make sure that your question had been addressed. >> I think we're going to have to do it to get a feel for it. I think um >> I mean that feels unfinished. >> So I was gonna finish and I was going to say that um there need I I it would be great if there was some trust that it's actually just a question. And I'm going to use the word that you used when you said you felt

094like you were being interrogated. When I'm saying I'm asking a question, I'm just asking a question. I'm not interrogating anybody. So, >> and I think that's why I'm I'm really harping on questions go to Kimberly because then it does became an interrogation. >> And so, um that's why I was like for now until the trust, you know, our we have a brand new board, but our previous iteration of the board, we had gotten to the place where we could >> What did you say? S um you know what? Um, but for now, and that also will help you frame the question in your head. If you're realizing I'm asking Kimberly this question, then it's not going to be an attack Michelle question, right? It's going to be I just need to clarify. I heard some

095information doesn't match the information I thought I had. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And I think without saying I heard Virginia say You know, I heard X. Um, >> that's good. >> Yeah. Instead of >> That's a great idea. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You don't even have to say I heard >> Yeah. >> So and so say X. You just say I heard. >> I always do the you know, old lady, poor hearing, brain not working. I did. I I thought I heard I could have misunderstood, >> but I did hear that. Is that true? And then >> well Stephanie did that well with the newspaper when I said I'll just write my own and she got she was like wait clarifying we >> exactly and it went to >> then I when it got

096to me I was like well then I changed my book because I thought I could write my paper so I mean it was a great example >> right and versus Kimberly going you can't use a newspaper that's not fair right so you know >> and you know >> that was a great model >> this will be ongoing as well because let's acknowledge the tension between the fact that you all have to do your work together and so it forces a lot of conversations during formal meetings because that's the law >> and you have to also get your work done. So it must something a suggestion I would have is I would I would again that idea about making space for others I would make space for the scope of the thing you're talking about. >>

097Yes. >> Right. And so if if the the margin of of of um action necessary by the board is not very large, then maybe self monitor your time there a little bit and be realistic about it as opposed to again something really large and systematic that you're talking about multiple meetings. It's just a suggestion I have. I think it'll it'll help the meetings move a little further. But thank you for that. We're So, this has been wonderful by the way, but we're going to keep going and um and because Sandy and I again built today off of our last conversation, we're just going to recap a little bit so you can see the road map of where our brains are. Yes. >> Five minute five that needs to I just need. >> Yeah. No, that's

098totally great. And then most >> Sorry, my phone was buzzing. It was Robin. My phone's on do not disturb. So if it fes where we are setting up today. So when we got together last time we reviewed the Oregon State Board Association standards, right? We know that you are getting ready to schedule a board self- assessment review which is awesome. So we have purposely designed today to support that conversation when you have it. Um we reviewed the article about signs of student achievement board best practices. had a great conversation around that and then touched on the truth matters books and those elements there. >> So, >> can I ask when our self-evaluation is because we had to cancel it, right? >> I think it's being rescheduled, Rosanne, right? I think you landed on March 31st.

099>> But you haven't yet? >> No. >> Thank you. >> All right. >> That's awesome. >> Sorry. >> All right. And so this is um some very very high level takeaways. Of course, there was a lot of nuances, but as we went through our notes, we had photos of all our charts. Um we um wanted to bring this as a summary forward. So there were a lot of strengths talked about in vision directed planning. You know this is pulling off of both the standards conversation as well as the article conversation. Um strengths identified for the Portland team in vision directed planning, innovation and creativity, community engagement, financial leadership, datadriven improvement and accountability. um we were left with a wondering around how to build a common understanding and definition of accountability whether we're talking about it

100from a systems perspective to a datadriven perspective to just having a district-wide outlook. We were also walked away with the wondering around what is Portland's governance approach and philosophy and how do we align the board's work with the superintendent and the districts to keep those gears moving well and on behalf of service of students and also how to work as an effective team during an era of poly crisis. That's why we sent the article. We're not going to unpack the article today, but it's really helpful context to why you all are feeling so busy because you are feeling the impacts of this poly crisis era. Um, and so we're going to reference that it takes different leadership um, skills and mindsets and approaches than schoolboard district school district work needed, schoolboard work needed 20 years

101ago, certainly even seven, eight years ago. So that's something we want to call out like the pressure you all are feeling is real and being experienced by school boards across the country. Okay. So and also too we wanted to bring this back. So remember when we were having that yes conversation and I started writing down what was sounding like a bit like a vision statement for the board's work. I'm going to read it out loud for you. Having students at the center of decision-making with a commitment to datadriven improvements lighting the way forward creates a focus in all the diverse areas of governance responsibilities and allows the board to focus on strategy while the administrative team focuses on implementations. So this is an artifact. I like to call these artifacts. So I just am bringing

102it back into the space again. We're not going to dive into this. Um, but I it was it was really great work and just something I wanted to make sure we have in the room. So, we again, like Sandy said, we just touched on the the elements of trust. Do you mind um passing out the worksheet real quick? >> Um, so we we're going to just bring it back up again because it's really important to um and even already the concept of trust has come up. So we want to support both um your work in it as well as just allow for conversations in terms of what contributes to building trust amongst a team within education. Again, this framework was built um specifically for education leadership. >> Thank you. >> And why it's important to

103think about the elements of trust. First of all, public education is by its mission just people centric work, right? We are not creating widgets. So we're help de developing little people into into successful older people. And so that's very people centric. So trust is really important. Also in order for a school district to be successful, there has to be sustain sustained support from the public, from the employees, whether just on one-on-one or with organized labor groups, with students and then partners. And let's be honest today we are in a low trust environment for government government in general right so again very different from 20 30 years ago just a factor of where we are today trust is not um given it used to be very much taken for granted that everyone trusted their public schools

104and it's not the same it's not just about schools about government entities in general today um and also because of the these two elements goals are only achieved by through interdependence with each and interdependence is by definition vulnerable work. So having an eye towards um towards trust really will help support that. So you have a worksheet there. Um this is just a recap of the five elements and um again and I'll just recap them really quick. Does is a recap helpful? Do you all remember this? Because we went really fast on this last time. >> Recap is helpful. Excellent. So the first idea is is what the author calls benevolence. So in order to engender trust with someone and and actually the book is written from the point of view of principles to teachers, the

105power dynamic is woven into this this framework. So um the idea that the leader is caring, extending goodwill, demonstrating positive intentions, supporting the team, right? And from the board's perspective, that means supporting the superintendent and administration. That idea of that car and benevolence is important to build trust. Um, and not just within the team but within the broader community on Yeah. Or were you raising your hand? Okay. Just double checking. All right. So, honesty, the idea of showing integrity, telling the truth, keeping promises, honoring agreements, that is actually what a lot of people think of when it comes to building trust. That honesty component pretty self-evident. Well, that's important for building trust. And then openness. And this again is a part of the power dynamic, right? And we were just talking about this. How can

106we support openness in sharing important information delegating, right? Because you all have your committee structures. And so how that works in terms of delegating work to comm community to committees really important for supporting openness and sharing decision- making. So that's what the author categorizes those elements as. And then there's reliability, the consistency idea. Um and if you does that anyone read the Steven CVY you know bill right like his his approach to he he weighs heavily on this is he calls it um competence right so the idea that you are dependable right and there is competence here too but the fact that you are going to consistently do what you say you're going to do really builds trust and then the competence so and it's not that you have to be perfect in what you're

107doing but having standards that everyone understands that you are show dedication to the mission of the district and you're working hard and problem solving and doing that iterative work. Those are the five elements of trust. So, in order to um kind of break it down and add some context, we have a news clip here and I'm going to set this up a little bit. This is a news clip from Minnesota about a school district. This is about a year old. You'll recognize the context, but this is a news report about a board meeting that's about to happen. Um, and so you'll hear pretty quickly what the scenario is. But as you listen to this, first of all, you have a worksheet with the five elements. We'd love you to think about if you see any

108elements, and we have to kind of guess. It's only a three-minute clip. We don't know the full story, but if you see any examples of this, just, you know, you know, call them out. And also, we're going to talk about this um scenario as a case study throughout today. So, if you want to take little notes because we'll be referencing back as we get into governance into the structures of governance. Um, we have a piece of paper for you if you want to take notes. Does that make sense? Okay, I think we're all set, Cara. Yeah, >> let me know if you need volume. >> Hello and welcome to Be a Better Landlord brought to you by Turbo Tenant. >> I'm Ashley Karen. I'm so excited to be one of >> For the first time

109tonight, the Robbinsdale School Board is hearing recommendations to fix its financial crisis. The district is facing a $21 million deficit and will likely close several schools. Jennifer Hoff joins us now with more on the details of their plan to write the ship. Jennifer. >> Yeah. And there was a packed meeting tonight. As you can imagine, it was led by members of the group called Reimagine Ardale that first convened at the beginning of the year tasked with cultivating this vision to fight back against debt, declining enrollment, and low test scores. Admittedly an uphill climb with people now left to wonder how will the board react. A new school year has started, but the Robbinsdale School Board is confronting old problems, staring down a $21 million deficit and hearing recommendations for the first time about how to

110turn it around. Led in part, yes, by Joan Molen Evans. >> We had work to do and um and felt the work was important. She's one of dozens in a new community group meeting for the last eight months to reimagine Ardell for its 10,000 students over 5 years. >> It's a big lift, but the community, I think, is going to demand it. >> The group finding enrollment is down 2,000 students from a decade ago. Such outdated facilities improvements would cost more than $200 million and lagging test scores in every category. tasked to also figure out how to fix that, presenting a nearly 40-page report to the board. The superintendent calling the process collaborative. >> I've never entered a process so open to trusting that the outcome would be based on the collective. >> The group's

111suggestions are wide ranging, including building one new high school rather than having two, closing up to three middle schools and six elementary schools, and focusing on arts and science programming. decisions ultimately up to the board that Molen Evans describes as difficult, radical, and necessary. >> I think the real question is is will the board have a strong vision for the future. >> The group also recommends asking voters to approve a building bond, a levy. That's something that hasn't been done in the district in 45 years. There, of course, is a timeline for all of this, too, and that's really dependent on this. The board has to give the state a plan by January, the end of January to detail exactly how it will get out of all of this debt. Therefore, any cost cutting decisions

112around the plan from tonight will likely need to be made before then. So, of course, they can get the ball rolling on all the other things. And only one board member would give me reaction to all of this plan tonight, saying she supports this and says this is the first time they have seen a real clear path forward as a a more destination district for >> well and you have to have courage as board members too because they are going to have to make unpopular decisions no matter what they do. And a lot of this was because of an accounting error, right? It started as an accounting error which is what essentially almost tripled the debt that they had. >> So frustrating. >> And it's a board that frankly hasn't gotten along for quite a

113while. So they do have a lot of work to do. >> Thank you, Jennifer. >> At least our test financial stresses at least our test scores are doing very >> I had a question I couldn't like hear >> super well the whole time. And who crafted reimagine Ardale? Was that community or staff or what? I couldn't tell who they said wrote it. >> They have inferred from this that it was a district t communitywide task force that they pulled together. So the um because there was a lot of active community um it sounds like the newscasters inferred that it was a community-led task force but it was convened by the district. Okay. which we have, by the way, it's been a while, but we went through a similar process where we convened community for about

114eight months um to develop the portrait of graduate. >> There you go. Yeah. >> So, that was pre- pandemic. It was eight months of intense work. The district was the convenor. >> There you go. >> But we had Oh my gosh. We had a lot of a lot of community weigh in from all corners. >> That's a great example. >> And it was it was really really good. >> Yeah. It's amazing. You know, obviously very stressful situations, but they took time. They took eight months, right, to process it and bring in lots of perspective. Any other questions about the scenario? You couldn't adhere. >> Well, no questions, but same thing. Enrollment facility enrollment problems, facility problems. >> So, fun fact, >> scores down. Yeah. S Si is doing a little side project studying enrollment decline

115across the country because you know she it's what she does as a hobby. So um it is something that is systematically impacting school districts across actually across the world >> across the world. Birth rates are down >> another part of the poly crisis. >> Okay. I just want to say one thing because I think it's really important to give credit where it's due. And even though I think our achievement gap certainly needs some attention, I just again want to remind us that we are a school district that is on the rise as far as test scores go and which is different and important, >> but also that we are we outperform the rest of the state. Um so we are maybe a little bit different in that regard. >> Absolutely. And thank you for calling

116that out. Right. It's um it's helpful again because as we go through some models here, we're going to use it as an example. Um but is not analogous like perfectly to your situation, >> but man, it sure does not for me. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. Anything else on it before we keep going? >> All right. >> Well, they they said it was an accounting error, so they explained why, >> right, >> there was the difference. And I think right now Michelle's doing such a great job of explaining why we have this end of the year problem. So that's I think that's really important. >> Well, and that element of surprise that the news was talking about people are being proactive in talking about your situation so people don't feel surprised.

117That would be really important that what what element of trust would not surprise in your community to go back to what do you think? >> Openness. Honesty, right? Probably reliability. Mhm. >> So I think we have to like this thing is like a surprise similar to our current which is taking our community by surprise which I think is undermining a lot of these things whereas >> I think the district was doing a really good job of in January, February, December maybe even already talking about the huge budget crisis for next year and so >> was building on a lot of these things and then sort of got because this midyear teacher layoff potentially after spring break which is you know like >> it has been really challenging >> and um let me point out that

118that iterative work and learning is really important and we're going to talk about that the fact that learning from prior years and building off of it is super important so thank you for that example did everybody see the story that posted Julia wrote in the Oregonian where labor was basically talking about how they trust the district and like it was considering the situation it was pretty positive I felt like I'm assuming you read it Dr. But >> um I just wanted to point that out that even though it's a surprise and some in the community are taking that a certain way. It's nice to see that labor is not taking it that way. >> Yeah. Especially when you think back to a strike >> where there's no trust huge >> for the first time tonight

119has been doing because I agree that's huge to have when you have to make budget cuts to have your labor go. Yeah, that's right. That makes sense. instead of them fighting you and it's because of the work that you are already instinctively doing around those five elements of trust. >> Right? Really good example of it. So now what we're going to do because again one of the wonderings from last time is what is this thing governance? What are even you know are we talking about the same things? Um you know how does it approach and support the important work going on? So we wanted to spend some time in it and we're going to use a few models. I mean and models can be kind of academically wonky. Um, so just to reiterate like this

120is just a way of kind of organizing information around how board districts how school boards are effective um and can move forward through challenging times. Of course, there could be variance, not not the end all be all. Um, but it really can be helpful to add clarity to the work. And again, we're we constructed this an idea it's going to really pivot well when you have your board self- assessment conversation. >> And again, we're not selling any type of governance model. No, this is just a way of thinking about governing, >> right? To help you all like get the wheels the gears really clicking along because you you all are very busy. So, this is based off of for the people in the room who are who uh their love language is is uh research

121papers like me. So, Douglas Engelpart did an organizational model he called the ABC model and we've applied it to schoolboard work. Okay. So I'm going to just describe the framework really quickly and then explain and we're going to think about how it's applied here in Portland. So element A is the actual work. So within you know he he did create this for um profit organizations but it has been applied to the government sector. So the actual work is an element A. Um B's are support. So in the original model it was like managerial work. Um it could be administrative work if you're thinking about it from again from the school level um from you all that is governance the supports the practices we're going to go into it in detail the um the support area

122lives in B and then the how how people interact um how the climate is how trust is going that lives in C. Okay so just I wanted to give you a little road map before we start talking about each element. So, if we were to think about what the work or the what of the school board, what do you think falls in this? Give me some ideas. >> Just popcorn them up. >> Superintendent, um, support, evaluation, hiring. >> Absolutely. Anything else? >> Budget, >> their financial health of the district. Absolutely. That's a big school board responsibility. Yeah, >> I'm thinking the what. So I think of the board's responsibility and I'm maybe not hearing the question very well. >> That's okay. >> We decide what the what is and we the work is not our

123it's not our work to do. It would be the districts or >> very very helpful clarification. So I'm thinking very specifically what the school board's >> just the board. >> Yeah. Just from the school board's perspective for this one. Thank you for that clarification. >> Yeah. I mean it's up to us to decide the what >> right >> but not how to implement >> what yeah what would what would be some more aspects of the what >> vision statement >> policy policy would be more of a support because that would >> like we we set our policy >> right yeah >> right >> representing the interests of the community >> right >> approving a budget >> right >> not setting it but approving it What was that? >> You and looking forward the goals. >>

124Yes. Strategic goals, right? The desired outcomes for students. Very much the work of a school board. >> Um engaging the community. You know, I was really struck by what you said recently when you said you don't need board members with educational degrees. You need them to be dialed into their communities and um and what they what they need. >> Yeah. Thank you for that. >> All right, you all. >> Everyone expected me to talk. I already talked enough. >> Yeah. No, absolutely. No, we're I think everyone had a chance to weigh in. Did you have a chance to weigh in, Patty? >> Well, I did. Budget. >> There we go. >> Easy one to know. >> So, yeah. So, this is this is what we captured the same things you did, right? So, goals for

125students. Absolutely. The operational responsibilities. So, you know, overseeing the the healthiness and um well-being of the facilities themselves, um financial health, etc. And then there are some legal responsibilities you know like and this comes sometimes people call this the riskmanagement responsibilities of the board but the fiduciary areas about financial oversight monitoring progress community engagement um and the when applied to a school board the board seeks input to create these right and then defines them which gets dropped into policy absolutely um sets parameters sometimes around what's acceptable in some of the operational areas um fulfills the responsibilities legally here um and then does that work in conjunction with the superintendent because there is a golden rule of policym of program creation of leadership of this sort creating a program or policy that is not able to

126be implemented it doesn't really do so well you actually it's not going to be successful so by doing this work in conjunction with the superintendent ensures it's implementable so so that you can have the outcomes you're hoping for. Does that make sense? All right. Any thoughts on this before we talk about B? Awesome. All right, let's talk about B. So that's the work, right? After that is the support, the processes, the structures. I might say I was thinking as you all were talking about, okay, how should we organize conversations within meetings? That falls in B. Absolutely. because that supports your ability to do the work of the district in support of the what okay what might be some other examples here and this is what we are calling governance right so how this is organized

127within policies do you do a policy governance structure that organizes the policies this way that way we're not worrying about that right now we're talking super high level what kind of supports supports the board in doing the what any ideas Yeah, absolutely. >> What did you say? I could be here >> committees. >> I think um getting the materials well in advance, being able to ask questions >> and get answers well in advance and um there's one more that we talked about last time. Uh I'm looking to you because I remember you raising it anyway. It'll come to me, but um we've been doing that I think to support you like oh flagging emails like not urgent or Could you get me this before Tuesday? Yeah, >> great example. >> Any other items? And if

128you if you can think of examples seeing seeing this work being done too, Kimberly, feel free to pop out too. Anything anything else? So, we came up with right the policies that communicate what the what is, right? and that whole and it takes a it's a big amount of work getting that down but it creates alignment within the organization communicates to the public right so important that policy work but it lives and be um processes that support monitoring so all everything that you're talking about in terms of um you know how you have conversations maybe some some conversations about big shifts in work in the district have to happen multiple times um that allows for adaptation over time That iteration step is really critical during a poly this poly crisis era and you all are

129doing that right having adaptation over time. Also practices that support relationships. You know how you decide to structure your community engagement, how you decide to have a student rep on the board. All all the thoughts that goes into maybe you set up a calendar right to make sure it happens and doesn't fall by the wayside. All those processes fall in B. And then also this is where clarity for the board and superintendent relationship would live, right? These conversations about okay, this is when we pivot off to staff, right? Board has set direction and then it goes over here. This all lives in B. So the board in this in this area of the model promotes processes and approaches that support growth and outcomes. Again, it's all about the what in a in conjunction with the

130superintendent because again, if we want these things to work, they have to be implementable with fidelity. Okay, any questions? All right, so now let's talk about C. Okay, so this is the how, right? How we approach the processes, how we approach doing the work, how we think and interact with each other and everyone else, not just with each other. how we take action. Can we think about what lives in sea? Well, our um meetings with the superintendent um to under share with her what we've know, she shares what we know, what she knows. >> Right. So then >> and now we're even speaking before um board meetings about the agenda and if we have questions >> right because that is that is a way of um supporting strong relationships right so that would be how

131we interact absolutely thank you Patty any other ideas >> I think like maybe this falls under this but I've really over the last year developed this like shift where I really try to well I guess I just came in with a philosophy of like really wanting the district to look good like because my whole thing is like how do we bring more faith from our community into our schools and get more kids back in our schools that are living here and not going to our schools. So the district has to look good, right? And so I've had taken that philosophy and like over time sort of come to the conclusion that like if I have like questions or criticism or something I'm worrying about it comes when I'm in like a one-on-one or like some

132sort of small group setting. Um, so I think I don't know how to put that here, but like just um that sort of responsibility to consider like the impact of how we behave in public. I don't really know how to say it other than saying all those words, but >> it sounds like a belief system you've adopted in your leadership. >> Sure. Yeah. >> Right. As an example, one of >> Yeah. And it's my personal one, but like I wonder to what extent when we're thinking about how we think, interact, take action, maybe that keeping in mind um balancing that need for accountability with because I believe in that very much, but how to do that in a way that's not damaging. Anyway, >> yeah, I want to like highlight that. >> I like it,

133but I don't know how to put it. And I don't know if we all agree, but I just want to throw that out there that to me when I think about being a school board member, I'm like always trying to think like how am I making us look good? >> Yeah. >> I I have noticed a thing that happens with community um where when I try to give an explanation of why something is happening, it's received as like defense of the district. um which isn't what I'm trying to do. I think accountability is important and I think that when we make mistakes, we should own them, but also like sometimes like the why is just the why and people like to blame the district and sometimes it's just the way that things are. Um, and

134so I I feel like as a board we have a role in being able to communicate the why. Um, and I agree that like it feels um like like part of our responsibility to do that um to help build and restore trust in the district um where it is earned. Uh and I think that I don't know either like if we all think of our role in that way. Um, but I think it would be really helpful and beneficial to the district if we were able to present ourselves publicly um like that. >> That's that's a really interesting thought that really really is this helps explain the model actually because in the how is where values, >> right? And so say um because we've had to do this, right? We we went through really hard

135budget reductions as well. We had to explain our core values when we would go to those really stressful community meetings when we were getting ready to do our big big cut. >> Um starting with our values was really helpful, right? Um, and having, you know, thinking about, you know, and this is what Christy was getting to, the culture and climate to support, you know, this idea that we have to constantly be iterating to grow, right? How do you do that in a way where we can keep improving it lives in C, right? Um, trust, right? trying to to back you know when you're having those conversations um you know thinking about the five elements of trust and and how to strengthen those lives and see um and there are some unspoken commitments like I was

136thinking a lot about this after our conversation in January you're all unspoken commitment to transparency and sometimes it was spoken but it wo through everything you did and sometimes spending time to think about what your all unspoken commitments are can be really helpful um not just to help your work but to help you know when people you're having tough conversations with folks and then thinking about equity and justice elucency as well. >> Okay. So, I I'll just >> really quick and then Michelle >> and then Michelle um to what you're saying because we we just did this like she said the same thing where we had to go out to our community explain why we were cutting 25% of the budget. Um and and yes, the in part of it is the vacuum, right? until

137you get out there and are explaining what's going on, then people are going to fill that in >> with all sorts of very creative ways of what's going on. So, it is it's about that trust of getting out there >> and then trust from the staff >> because we had to work with our staff of we can get we need to be out there communicating with the community. you need us in front of them explaining what's going on. And um and that took some work with our staff. I'll be honest. They were like they were like, "Oh, I'm not sure that we trust you out there." But getting out there explaining what was going on and then um we were very empathetic. We you know, we would start with this stinks to high heaven. We

138hate this. None of us got into this work for free to hurt teachers and kids. that's not why we do this job, right? And so reflecting back the pain that they're your community feels builds that trust with them and ra because I think it's tempting. You want to start in explaining, let me explain what's going on, but start in acknowledging the pain that they're feeling and reflect it back of, yeah, we get it. We're feeling that same pain, too. Here's how we're going to get out of this. >> What were you thinking? Michelle, >> I'm sorry. or Michelle really. >> Yeah. Michelle, Michelle Duncan. >> Um, I really like that we talk about values as a kind of a leading, you know, you can't be wrong on values. Um, and I also think what the

139community needs from us. Um, even when I've gone to schools that are even a couple of them outside of, you know, the zone that I represent, they've appreciated uh even the worst news being um presented as from a board member, from a member of the community in a way that Yeah. And a lot of it's you're saying I don't agree with this either. I, you know, I I'm having a problem as a as a parent uh digesting this and here's what I know. and they expect honesty. Um, I don't think they want someone I don't think the community is expecting someone to come in and rally and say, "Yeah, you know, we're all against the district." I think they're expecting a board member to be that liaison um that maybe is a trutht teller that's

140able to explain the values and not someone to uh like get the troops rallied against the district. and and even I'm thinking about a couple of uh PTA not a couple lots of PTA meetings last year when we were talking about the budget cuts and you know it was terrible news and um I was at the time supportive of what the district was doing to address the issues. And so I came from that perspective. This is awful news and you know this is what the district's doing. Um, and and that that the way that we explain to community members and show up kind of as a team, if you will, that that builds trust. That's what people are looking for. They're not looking for an us versus them on the board. They don't that doesn't

141help. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. I just was wondering like you said what do they really need or what I guess what you said and I try to go to things when I can like plays they have or band performances or whatevers. Um and usually I let Roseanne know I'm going and probably the principal knows but nobody I mean most people don't know I've gone. Um, and I can report back that I saw this wonderful thing and I went to PTA meetings when I, you know, when the bonds were coming up. I said a horrible thing at once. I know I shouldn't go to, but um, uh, I don't know. I'm not exactly sure as a comm a lot of you have kids in your schools, so you've got that connection. I don't have that.

142So I'm I'm really not sure what they want individually from us. They see us at board meeting. Very few people I can't imagine. There's a lot of people who watch board meetings and um so what do they really want from us individually? I don't >> That's a good question. >> Yeah, probably sounds like a parking lot question, Patty. >> Yeah, thank you for that. I'm curious in what Kimberly says. Yeah. Well, I I often wonder >> the concept of the district and with board members and I I've often wondered if board members see themselves as part of the district and a liaison to community or do they see themselves as community with liaison to the district because I think it changes the way that >> yeah it changes the way in which I hear um

143the way in which people communicate. >> That is Yeah, thank you for that for a question. >> I I I said who do we represent the district or the public or both? Because I'm hearing different perspectives here today. Um in terms of, you know, how making the district look good versus, you know, hearing things like rallying the community against the district and you know, things like that. I feel like um for my mindset like I definitely see myself as a representative of the community, but is it both? Like I will always default to like what my job, you know, my job in a board meeting >> is also to make sure that the questions that the public is asking that they hear them asked. even if I know the answer, and hopefully nine times out

144of 10, I do know the answer, but >> they need to know that they need to hear it versus they're they're not in our one-on- ones. >> So, I keep that up front and center. >> I saw Michelle next, then Christy, then Eddie. I think it has to be both because we're the deciders, you know, like we can't make we can't vote on things that impact what happens in the district and then if we say we are not also a part of this system, then we're not being accountable for the decisions that we're making on behalf of the district. Like we have to be able to own that and we can't make those decisions if we're operating outside of that system. So, we have to be collaborating with Kim and with her team and um

145seeing ourselves as a part of of the process and the solution and the um the ecosystem of how it works. I think if we see ourselves outside of that, then we're kind of in I know this you don't like this word applied to yourself of the activist space, right? like if we're on the outside, we're coming from the outside trying to change the system that we're not a part of. Um, but I think if we see ourselves as a part of it, then we have ownership in it and we have that accountability stake and then we're working with the system within the system to improve it. um versus like being like kind of outside agitators with like undue influence and and power at the same time. >> And and I really quickly as a segue,

146someone a wise person once pointed out to me wanting something to happen and finding a way to make something happen are two different things. >> And so to be effective schoolboard members, think about again with this model how you know where where is the effective space. Christy, >> um, will you go back a slide for me? >> Sure. >> Thanks. So, I hear both. >> So, to this one? >> Yeah. I hear both of you and I'm Yes. Anding, but like I think when I think about how I make the district look good, that includes to me accountability and it includes like um I'll give an example. Like I think the um the bond audits that we have and getting the things done on that list help us to look good even though they're clearly

147accountability and bulking up the um work of the bond advisory committee where there's experts on construction projects that can help hold us accountable. That's that support monitoring. Um, it's like we set up the systems and like to me it's like what I what I want to see is like a model where like it's like okay district how do we hold you accountable in a way that feels productive and ding ding ding makes us look good because if the accountability structure is set up where those mistakes and issues don't happen because you know exactly what's coming and what you're going to be held accountable to. then you're like ready to shine when that moment comes. And if you're not, that's a that's a whole other issue. But I think it's setting up the supports, processes, and

148practices, including that like supporting monitoring. That to me is where you that's how you set up the system so that it doesn't have to feel like an eitheror. It feels like I'm coming in because I I mean, if anybody has ever heard me talk about why I ran for the school board, you know, it's because I felt like the district really was not hearing from the schools, including my own. And um how frustrating that was. And so I come in and I might be the kind of person who you would think would want to be like doing whatever would be like most beneficial, most like us versus them versus the district. But I think for me it's like my understanding of how I can get the district to do better isn't by like throwing bombs.

149It's by holding hands and figuring out like how together we can like improve outcomes and make make the district stronger. Not make the district look good because the district >> isn't good, but making the district look good because the district is good. >> Um, so I just feel like that's like a whole like two-way street like what you're saying. I don't I and I think what you said I think if we can figure out how to be both of those things people that are working with the district holding the district accountable representing community and standing with community and by the way in the end you get the district standing with community oh my gosh like that's the dream and so I feel like you get there with it's just like the old cliche of like

150you get there with honey or whatever and and I'd love to point out that district the community standing with the district is proven to boost student outcomes and so many we probably could spend an hour talking about how that would happen. >> Yeah, exactly. And then community want to send their kids to our schools and then the enrollment gets better and like you just see the cycle improve. So that's like what like the longest form mission statement of me as a school board member that I can find is like write what I just said. So I think it's like both and we need to figure out how we can do the accountability and ask the questions. Um, I'll give another example and then I will get off my soap box here. But, um, I had

151a lot of questions that I wanted that I heard on the Jefferson piece that I wanted to get answered on the record. So, I was like, "Hey, I'm going to talk to Margaret about some questions I want to ask at the meeting, not in our spreadsheet, because they're not for me, but they need to be for the they're for the community." So then I went and and kept everybody in the loop, talked to Margaret so that that day she knew I was going to ask two tough questions and then I even think I gave you a heads up so you wouldn't think I was like trying to like make trouble but actually I was trying to like put something on the record. Um so even though we had this process for questions for our own

152understanding and learning um that was how I handled it to like ask questions that I felt like the community needed answered on the record. So that way it wasn't like anybody felt defensive or attacked. It felt like we're all doing this together. >> And I would go ahead. >> Yeah. I'm just gonna give you a visual because I'm hearing this swirling around what's our role. You're the bridge. And if you think about the bridge over the Columbia River, and I know Washington's the problem here, so I'll own that. But it's not Washington's bridge. It's not Oregon's bridge, right? It's the bridge. You don't belong to one side. You are the bridge connecting your community with your district. And so you are not the communities, you are not the districts, you're the bridge. >> And the

153reason why we're introducing this to you, we're going to keep unpacking it is sometimes it's what you just described Christie talked about the work, talked about supports for the work, and then talked about underlying values woven into all that. And sometimes that's really hard to unpack when you're trying to improve things. So by thinking, okay, if if there's something, for example, how we're deliberating in meetings that we're getting stuck on, oh, that's a support. Let's think about it from a structural standpoint, not from a, oh, people don't value deliberations. It's not a how, it's a support. And so as you're starting to go through, it'll help you, you know, and let's point out the state associations don't make this any more helpful because if you think about the Oregon state standards and how Washington did

154this, too. They wo the what and the how together in the standards. So, and that's why last time, you remember, we we broke them apart for you. This is what you're doing as your responsibility and how you know you should, you know, they suggesting you do it. it gets really mucked up and somehow sometimes that that sticks up the gears and so we're suggesting this to help you be able to um to keep improving as you go. It'll help you and Eddie really quick if you don't mind Kimberly. Thank you. >> Yes, Eddie, thank you for being patient. >> It's been a while. >> Um I think I was kind of responding to what Virginia said. I because I I think one of the keys to kind of I I guess I just want to

155kind of reframe I think Christy did a better job than I did so I'll I'll just say my piece. Um, I think values light the way is kind of like I think the core of that because you know one of Virginia's values is transparency and that goes under openness in our five facets of trust and that's a big thing and that's why and I go back to the philosophy of elected governance right where the people elected Virginia because she is one of her values is openness and and that's what she brings to the district as a decider as um someone who's you know, obviously represents Kami, but is ultimately responsible for the direction of the district, right? And so I think kind of reframe it that way. I think the bridge analogy is better than

156what I just said, but um um but I think just being very clear about what our values are and also find that helps a lot when doing community outreach like we were talking before like during even during the strike when I visit a lot of PTAs create a lot of trust because I was like you know this is this is my values these are my morals and what I center and just be very open and honest about it and these are the problems we're facing >> and you know again openness and honesty Um but yeah I think I think that's for me the values is kind of the bridge. >> So one key thing if we can go back to a >> absolutely >> the work. So when you when you look through all of

157that, right, I one of the things that I have felt and understand from the board is that one of those things that may have them, you know, deciding on either side of the bridge or being the bridge always comes back to this thing on holding the district accountable. And when you think of the work or the what um and I know I've said in other public meetings is that you know I I am the accountability that you all lean into right like that's why it's when you think of the super the evaluation um of the superintendent and I think sometimes that's missed and I think we kind of go around accountability like with all the different things I'm going to hold the district accountable. It's really you're holding me accountable. And I think that if

158if I'm not and I've said that before, like I have high expectations for myself. I want you all to have high expectations for me. And if there are things that are not getting the outcomes that you need as a board, then it's the board's perfection, right? um if it's not working out through our evaluation conversations and it's like we are not moving, we are still kind of stuck then that that's why the whole hiring evaluation and termination of a superintendent is one of the primary duties and I feel like we don't really get at that. um it just turns up in all the other things like oh we have this structure to hold the district accountable we have this to hold the district accountable and I'm like you have me hold hope hold me accountable

159and I'll make sure that all the things that we're planning and visioning and and putting together under the work and the what is happening in the way in which um you all have discussed and decided >> thank you for that >> yeah I think it's can I just add to that really quick or like I guess and also um so I hear that that's also why I think partnering with you on some of these like things that we can do within B specifically but also C but like um setting up the structures that yes hold you accountable as the final tool but don't have an accountability structure that's just like you because it's a huge district you know what I mean so like what do you want to staff bring to the public less like

160almost even the board. Um, but like that's kind of where I'm like there had like some processes where we're like shining light, holding teams accountable in public places like that then make us more likely to hit the targets you have too. So to me I feel like it's kind of like a two-way street a little bit if that makes sense. like how can we be a tool for you getting what you need from your workforce? >> Before you answer, I want to kind of add on to what Christie is saying because one of these slides I saw the words support the superintendent and I think that holding you accountable um and supporting you go together. And at my day job, the people who um report to me, like I see my job as um not

161just like giving them a a task or a project and then sending them out to do it and evaluating how that's done, but being a partner to them along the way to make sure that they have the tools and resources they need to do those things successfully. And um when we you know the the language around holding the district accountable and stuff, it often feels like that's like a punitive thing. Like like when they mess up, we're going to get them and like that's it. And I don't think it should be that way and I don't want it to be that way. I really want it to be us as a board holding you up and supporting you and making sure that you have what you need because you are accountable for all of these

162things and and you need to be supported in that. Um, but when I saw that word on those words on the slide a while back, um, it really stood out to me because I don't think I think often being seen as supporting the superintendent is seen as co-signing everything that the district does. And I don't think that that is the case. And I also don't think that we would be doing our jobs well if we did not support you and doing your job. And that doesn't mean co-signing everything you do. Sometimes it means disagreeing with you and telling you why. Um but but that framing of support I think is an important like partner to the accountability. >> Thank you. >> I appreciate that. And I just want to say like I'm one of those

163folks who don't see like hold you accountable or accountability as like a bad word. And I know in a lot of context it's like oh my goodness they're mentioning accountability. It must be punitive. Um and I I don't I don't have that frame. So that's good. >> So I do have a follow question. I want to honor Michelle and then something else. >> Yeah, I think about I I that that word on the slide that we kind of glossed over really quickly like support the superintendent is part of our job. Um I take that part really seriously and the accountability too. I think they can they happen together. But I also look at like um many of us have had jobs where we had a manager and a good manager like we are. We're the

164superintendents, you know, we evaluate her performance. When you think about having a manager, you think about being provided the supports to do an excellent job. um you think about how you show up in public either supportive of your employee or not or uh challenging the employee and and so I think about that too. Classical if you have an employee you send them a birthday card. I mean little acknowledge their milestones um ask them have conversations about the supports that are needed um or professional development or other tools for them to do their job well and hold the superintendent accountable at the same time. I don't think those are at odds with each other. I think we can do both. In fact, I know I I can do both. >> Stephanie, >> yeah, thank you. Um,

165I think for me, um, some of what I see our role is is being clouded for me by the idea of like equating it to a manager within an office because we aren't within the office. Um, we aren't like a a paid manager in an office or a head of a nonprofit or we we just aren't the same as being employed probably by a board of your nonprofit has employed your executive director. They're separate. You would never say the board of my former law firm is an employee of the law firm. Like if you start thinking about it outside of this perspective, >> you think about the board of your nonprofit or the board of this whatever is in charge of this, I don't know, the mayor of the city, like they're they're separate. Um,

166and so I'm feeling I I am feeling like we're clouding it a little bit by saying we're a manager, we should give you we are, but we also aren't. And so that's important for me to say because of this bridge idea and like who are we to what and trying to be both and the executive director of a nonprofit is going to be doing this. The board of that nonprofit is going to be doing this and I don't want to suddenly suggest that we are PPS employees because we're simply not. Um, and uh, so I wanted to say that um, I also have struggled like I think your point and I didn't realize that you've done that with the Jefferson. I think that's fantastic with those questions for the Jefferson community. Mo most if not

167all of the questions that I'm asking in advance are because they're coming from somewhere. Someone is is asking and I love that our community is maybe reaching out to the board. I I don't know what used to happen in boards past, but our inboxes are filled and that's great. Um, and I think if our community hears us asking the questions that they're asking that I believe transparency comes and trust will grow because they feel like they've got a conduit to get an answer that maybe they could Google or AI or something, but they're like, "Oh, we have a way to get this answered. We may not like it, but we get an answer to it." And um and so I have struggled with asking the questions in advance and having them in a spreadsheet that

168is not given to the community and I believe should probably be part of our board packet so our community can see what we're asking see the answers and it would maybe cut down on dialogue on the dis if the community can say oh Stephanie didn't say anything today because she asked and got b and just simply said yes or no and a vote and moved on. But because those questions, even if I'm getting answers that I like and others are reading or I'm meeting other people's questions and I'm thinking about it, I believe they need to be in the board meeting because not everyone has access and they deserve to know that these questions are being asked. So, um it's sort of like a how and a process and all these things. I don't know.

169>> That was Thank you. That was my question. where I want to talk really quickly about where accountability shows up in A, B, and C, >> how it shows up. And I want actually want to start with C. So, you know, I I could repeat back what I've heard, but I would love you to to say for accountability and how you all are defining it because it it varies very much by board. I have to be honest and I would v venture a lot of of your community what is accountability would vary as well. But if you just want to think about what values like I've heard openness, transparency, um supporting the growth of the superintendent and therefore outcomes for students. Um anything else you would think about from how we think and interact with

170each other that supports accountability. >> I think knowing that my fellow board members are are doing the work in advance, right? like reading things, showing up, having thought about them, it makes it a better process. >> Sounds like reliability. >> Yeah. >> From trust. Yeah. Thank you. >> Any other ideas about because let's be honest, the how sometimes is hard to think about, but the how is actually critical. We're going to get to this. We talked about being a learning organization last time. It's the how that allows any organization to be in a learning organization and be able to react to things. When your how is strong, I'm gonna say it. When ICE agents show up at a school, something unforeseen happens totally a pandemic breaks out, right? something you haven't even considered is inside

171your what and all of a sudden it's a poly crisis and now it's your what is your how that allows you to to respond thoughtfully because you already have this right so it and this is why having it tangled up in board standards across the country is really I think a detriment to school board's work >> so let's just talk I mean because you all have thought thought about this right what kind of climate are you trying to create with accountability yeah Patty Well, we just spent a lot of time talking about it about how we will interact at board meetings so everyone gets a chance and so we're not feeling like we're arguing but we're learning >> learning and having that additive. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. I guess I'll just say um one

172thing that is like a value for me and we've talked about a lot in these settings and I don't think is a necessarily shared value but that I just feel like I will continue to bring up is like >> um you know you know who's watching our board meetings my husband and my kids like almost always it's on the TV when we're at home >> and um so I think about how we appear um in our level of like respect um for each other and things like that. And I don't really again I'm feeling a little inarticulate today but like I just think that um the care we have and demonstrate for each other the trust I honestly like this to me is like this is really like this really speaks to me and if

173we can like show all of these in the way we interact with each other interpersonally especially in public um that just really matters deeply to me. Um just because I I think like literally it's we had this really bad meeting. My daughter was like texting her friends to turn it on and they watched it. >> Oh wow. >> She they she was like you guys should turn this meeting on. It's like crazy what's happening. My mom like walked out and then they were like watching it and then multiple of them mentioned it to me and like parents were like yeah like Zoe like turned on our the schoolboard meeting and I was like what in the world is happening? And that to me was like this real like holy cow like we that had that

174happen and like people who never have tuned in tuned in and that's what they thought we are like. >> Um and I just really don't think that's what we're like. And so I think um living up to that like >> and like we're education like how do we want to model being like leaders and >> um so I don't again like I don't have the perfect way to put it but that's like a really important value to me. >> Can I just say I think you worded it really well. >> Um because there's a phrase called tone at the top. Have you ever heard this phrase >> where in the the board I know Sandy has a lovehate relationship with that phrase. It was used inaccurately in a in a part of our history. But

175the fact of the matter is the board model models this, right? If you think about how you you would like if principles are at a meeting to be working over hard issues with each other and then working with their teachers on something, the modeling by the board really sets the climate and the culture for things like that. And it's hard work. Again, it's hard work and it's not something that boards I think first of all um let's just say there's there's not enough supports. That's why we wanted to bring it up today because it's really really critical. Um, and in the corporate environment it's focused on quite a bit. This is why you have your Bnee Browns, your Simon Synynics, like all the people and Grant like it's focused on quite a bit in the

176corporate world, but within the schoolboard arena, not as much. >> And and I'll just um follow up. I that is an excellent example of the how your value that we treat each other with respect and dignity because that's what we're modeling for our kids because we want our kids to treat each other and with respect and dignity, right? And um I'll just tell a quick story. We did we did have a couple board members that were using tone on the top way not what at all what it meant but they were using it to attack the district. and Amy and another board member and I said, "Okay, telling people to be civil is not working, right? Telling people to be respectful is not it. What if we just start modeling it?" >> And it turned

177out these other two board members, that was of core value for them as well. They just didn't know how to get there, right? And so once we came to an agreement as a board that we were we weren't going to tell people how to behave. We're just going to model the way you behave and it took a couple years but totally turned how things operate in our district. And that was a decade ago and we still to this day except for when you know bus loads come in because they don't like the pandemic. Um we had people bust in to our board meetings. It was fun. It was good times. Um it's still we just thank you so much even when it's woof >> anger and frustration and snarky and performative thank you so much

178for coming we really appreciate it and that's how we talk to each other on the dis and it's just but it's speaking that value and I saw a lot of head nodding as you were talking that is a value for this board that you are respectful and kind to each other because that's important to model for the kids >> and there was an unspoken commitment on our board to the value of public comment even as they were >> saying horrible things to us >> um because we had that commitment to the democratic process frankly and so that's that's how we we processed it you know and I would there's another so um I'm going to I'm going to go forward to this because pulling it together so you know this idea of learning organizations Peter

179Si again if you're a geeky like me, I could send you stuff. But, um, he has a great analysis about how important the how is. So, if you think about an oceanliner, I'm going to throw this out here. This is his his analogy, not me. Who's the most important leader on an ocean liner ship going, you know, like if you think the QE2 kind of big who's the most important leader? >> Captain. >> The co- >> captain. Co- captain. >> The typo. What would you think about the designer that designed the ship? >> How the rudder's going to go, >> right? How it how it actually has spaces for people in there, you know, how it's set up to dock or not dock. The designer is actually the most important leader of that ocean liner.

180And so investing time in the how is hard. Um, but again, when those things pop up in the era of 2026, right, like you have that design in place to help and be and be um and be true to your core values and commitments. >> Yeah. Um, I just wrote down the commitment to public comment because it um is something that I maybe as a parking lot conversation, I don't know. But um I think we would be well served if we considered having spaces for and spaces in opposition much like county and the state do because I've seen I've heard many a time where people are like I can't get a public comment space because someone has alerted to say oh sign up for public comment and then they're filled. Um and if we are

181if we believe and we want to support public comment, we have to >> commit to letting people voice question statements in opposition. And it may be that on some issue there is no no one is wanting to speak against it. But I think we would be well served to consider having two or three, however we want to do it, in support of this policy change or in support of whatever. And then giving space, equitable space, um, equal space to someone who wants to come in and say something that is going to make everyone's skin crawl, maybe, but that they get the opportunity. I don't know. Or maybe they're not going to say something that makes their skin crawl. are just going to say something realistic in opposition and we don't really do that and spaces

182often fill up and then we have people in the waiting room and I don't know. >> So that is I think I might hear someone at the door actually but um we're we're supposed to be giving you a lunch break right now. >> Um >> so but let's let's parking like that that is a great support. See that lives in B, >> right? And so to support that conversation, you would think about, okay, how does it relate to our our core responsibilities and how would our values inform how that's designed? That's a perfect B conversation. Do we just checking in Rosanne? Is is >> Lunch is ready. Okay. So, let's I'm trying to think if I have any other because we I I really you guys are awesome. Um >> we are right on >>

183we are this is yeah um so when we when we come back we're going to talk about another model that's going to support again processing these right because again it's it's tricky um and we want to um to give you a whole bunch of tools today but anything else on this you know the ABC model like how is this working for do cuz we can tweak from when we come back from lunch if we need. How's this working for you? >> I think we need to like maybe take Stephanie's idea, figure out how you get to it. >> We're going to give you a couple more tools and then we were thinking because you all talked a lot last time about what to do when emails come in. >> Yes, >> that's what we were

184going to do, right? Because you you gave us a whole bunch of context and it seemed like something we could we could talk about. Um, but if we want if we want to think about Stephanie's idea, I mean, we can we can pivot as well. >> We'll see how much time we have here. Talk about that. >> What's that? The emails. >> Yeah. No, not the idea. >> The the public comment >> we come back to that. >> It is written down. If it doesn't get addressed today, it will be absolutely >> because there the whole community conversation, how do we connect is a huge topic and there are many many facets to that. And so we're going to start with email. It's going to earth values that we're going to talk about that that

185will then help frame all of the other iterations from public comment to town halls to all the things that you will then have that values to ground how you're going to together as a board do that. Yeah, I I'd like to hear more about this also and am really looking right now for ways uh that bring the community together, not divide. And so I'm I'm a little I'm curious to learn more and concerned that we have if you've watched other YouTube from other districts uh such as Wilsonville um their meetings are really nasty and I would I would like us to not be a container for that nastiness. So if there's I'm interested in learning more and also looking for ways right now, especially at Portland where we can kind of bring people together around

186a shared vision that would be like if we can get there through hearing an anti and a pro, great. And if not, like let's look for ways that we can work together as a community because we have a we have some big community problems to solve here. Um and then us versus them. I don't know how that'll work. >> Well, in a in a in a time of poly crisis conversation, you know, again to getting back to values, it's about accessibility of public comment. Yes. >> Right. So, we had a conversation in our district where it's a threeminut >> time limit, which is really problematic for people that have to bring an interpreter. >> So, they're saying their piece, you know, it takes they takes up half their time when they have to interpret it.

187So, >> we were having conversations about accessibility. So that's that's how you we have a value. We want everybody to have access to public comment. >> Yes. >> Is what I heard Stephanie say. I saw a lot of I'm seeing a lot of head nodding. We want access. >> And then how do we create rules so there's access and we trust me we will >> we will do. Okay. Kimberly and then let Amy >> No, there's one thing I've wondered about is I mean this is the I mean I've worked in a handful of districts. This is the only district that I've ever been in that limits public comment by number of people. >> And I wonder if there was some point in time when maybe that happened. And then I look at the flow

188of our agendas and we're still there until 10:00 at night most times. And I'm like, wow. I've been in districts where public comment is unlimited. Yeah. >> Where you sign up as soon as you arrive. So it didn't depend on like in advance. Now I have been in places where it's been like capped by time but never like three people only and that's it. So for me it's like >> it's against sort of like my even my own philosophy about just creating. So it's interesting to hear that because I know as a system we would never say hey frontload an agenda positive or negative because it even is just against my own personal beliefs. >> It's not binary. >> Yeah. But anyway, I wonder about how when that decision was made and if it's worth

189which of course would be a board decision anyway, but if that's even worth visiting, but if so, >> then the way in which we load the agenda would have to change to make space or the for you all any. So, but anyway, >> also sometimes people I've noticed that sometimes the same people when we have multiple forums to give feedback, the same people will sign up or show up. >> Yes. and to speak and so they're really like in a situation that was intended to create room for as many people to speak as possible. It's often the same people who show up and kind of dominate the conversation. So then that's counter to like what we're trying to do which is create space for more people to speak when it's just the same people taking

190more opportunities to speak >> which maybe is that difference between form or not but I guess I just often wondered if we look at board meetings as they are which is your business meeting are you getting everything you need from the public to conduct the business of the board and if not is that worth revisiting >> I think there's definitely um there have this I've heard these as a board member that that there are times where they feel like the public feels that the public comment is stacked. >> I'm just being totally blunt. >> So, all they have to do is whoever emails Rosanne first, they're in. Right. >> Exactly. >> It rewards speed, not rewards the ability to be able to do that during a workday >> and um and organize also. >> Yeah.

191But when it is stacked, it's because literally somebody organized that stack. Yeah, >> not hopefully not the board members, but sometimes yes. >> Sorry. Sorry. >> Thank you Stephanie for bringing that up. I I I think that the discussion of accessibility for public comment is is very worthy of exploration. Um the you know like pro and con columns might be problematic in some some situations as you know like some things are not both sidisms right. Um so but and also the discussion about whether public comment is an accessible form for you know all parts of our community which is is not and so like what are other ways that we can expand that accessibility for those who typically can't access things like public comment and things like that. So I I think that is a

192very important and robust discussion and at the same time I think we should be discussing the email thing because >> um that's a very current I mean these are all both really current that's the wrong word to use um but I think we started that conversation last time and I think getting clo some closure at least some progress towards it gives us some tools that we can work with then that we can apply to the the public comment issue. So I I I'm strongly in favor of moving forward with our email conversation because I think that would help us give us the tools too. >> And as a facilitator, >> um it's these are all the good discussions. I don't know if we have time today to talk about public comment because it sounds like

193a very universal strategic conversation and we'd want to give it we'd honor want to honor it by giving you enough time and the structure to really process that. the email is a more cut and dry and we were using it as an example of a process flow you can use to stop start optimizing to start pulling apart you know what's the work what's the support what's the what's the how um just as an example and it's something you need help with so I yeah >> and it's it's planted a great seed I I see a a commonality of interest in accessibility and I suspect it's more than just the public comment of your business meeting right it's a how do we hear from the community in a way that's meaningful and we get a sense

194of we are we really hearing from all the perspectives and what people have to say on this topic and that is a what I call a forever conversation right that's always work that we're going to do and we will I promise continue to work at it but it's great that you've earthed it as a value and put it in that language and that's a great way to start that work of here's a common value that we have rather than it being about something very specific Um and and yeah, it's that that accessibility component of how do it's important and you do surveys and then you question did did who did we hear from is it really representative right >> yes >> it's a forever conversation so >> and we want and we don't want to

195leave you frustrated >> right and the other >> we're not having enough >> final lawyer in the room what is I would before we have this conversation or you have it without find out what your law is because the law in Washington just changed around public comment in >> business meetings as a result of the pandemic. So if that whatever the law is that that puts some parameters on how flexible you can be with it. >> Okay, let's have lunch. And so we How long should we have lunch? How what do you I don't know how the setup is. What would a working lunch look like? Do you think it'd be possible to bring it back or are we gonna go have lunch in a separate space? How does that work? >> I was gonna

196May I Oh, sorry. Go ahead. And then I was going to say, could we have just a few minutes to eat though? I It's really an important value of mine. Um >> Well, thank you. >> Not to work or watch TV or read or like literally just to enjoy for a few minutes. It could be five minutes, >> could be 15. >> 15. >> Taking a mental break some point. the idea of like >> a break. >> Yep. >> For eating and then we can finish as we resume. >> Yeah. Because we have we have more more things for you. Okay. Half and half. >> 15 maybe. >> 15 for eating and then we'll keep eating and we will be okay with chewing and Yes. Yes. That hurt. Yes. Great. >> All right. I mean

197already our kids lunches are so >> okay. Thank you. >> All right. We're gonna come back. >> And please, please keep eating. I also >> um >> I also don't like bacon. It's a whole thing. >> Okay. So um we are building towards having some really great problem solving conversations. We want to give you some more tools and ways to think about it, ways to frame those conversations that keep it um at the strategic level rather than personal or in the weeds type work. Again, adorable child in the Portland schools and their first day of prek. Look at that cute kids. Love it. >> I'm good. And a Michelle Obama quote because you can't go wrong with Michelle. Okay. So, very common. You get stuck. You're doing a how conversation. How are we going to

198do this? How? And you get stuck. So, we want to again, look at those cute kids. Oh, are they adorable? Uh uh. So, we're going to give you some questions to ask. So, we're we have three questions to ask and then we're going to dive into each question and ways of thinking about them. So, um Amy is going to pass out the sheet with a the three questions so we can refer back and then the ways of thinking about them. So, question one is where are we putting our focus as we are you're going to get a paper copy of this and I think we're going to make our slides available as well. So all of this will be available to you. Where are we putting focus? Is it on the problem itself or is

199it the goal of the outcomes? How are we relating? Are we stuck in our status quo or are we envisioning empowering others? Are we working to empower others? Um and then what actions are we taking? Are we reacting to the situation or are we responding to the situation? >> For the chips. >> Oh, yay. Who wants chips? >> I want chips. >> Oh, thank you. >> That's all day. There we go. >> Excited. Thank you. >> Me, too. Hate her food to go waste. Was telling Amy a story last night. This is my family. My lived experience. My mother, you did not throw food away. And when my parents had their 50th wedding anniversary, it was at a space. It was a buffet. And they were like, "You cannot take the food home." And my

200mom was like, "Well, then what's happening to the food?" They said, "We have to throw it away." So, she brought Ziploc bags to her 50th wedding anniversary and handed it to the grandchildren and instructed all of them to put food in the Ziploc bags, put it in their pockets, and take it home. >> That's hilarious. >> That's my mother. Anyway. Anyway. Okay. So, um, so right now she's very, very happy that the potato chips did not go to waste. So, I can hear her. And good job. Okay, so those are our three questions and then we're gonna we're going to dive more into the first one. Where are we putting our focus on the problems or the outcome? So when you focus on the problem that feeds into that anxiety and then you're reacting to

201the situation. Great example. We all experienced this last year. The department of ed is going away and we're only funding school districts that we like, >> right? So we are all stuck in this moment as our community is like what the what the what is happening and we're like so if we focus on the problem there's this problem of department of education is disappearing and we're not going to get funding because we're not on the good district list. I know we're we're all in the same list, right? Um now we're creating anxiety, right? And then we're reacting to the moment. Do we make a stand? Do we make noise? Do we write a letter? What do we do? So, in our district, the way we dealt with it is we focused on the outcome. Okay.

202So, if the Department of Ed goes away, if we don't get our federal funding, what does that mean for our school district? So, we focused on the outcome and we did a deep dive into the budget and we're like, you know what, we can we can do this. We will be okay and we will keep doing it. So then what as the ward we went out and said our passion is educating kids. We're focused on making sure that third grade still happens. And that was the message we sent out. Third grade is still happening. School buses are still going to roll. Your kids are still going to learn. We're still teaching physics and calculus in our high schools. We will monitor whatever the heck it is that's happening in DC and we'll let you know

203the community when that needs when there's something that needs to and just brought the temperature down. So we focused on the outcome. We want kids to keep learning. We don't want the national whatever to be a distraction. And so then we iterated it of okay here's our job. Our role is we're going to keep monitoring and we'll let you know if there's something that you need to be involved with and we'll just keep monitoring rather than fulfilling that anxiety loop. So that's just an example because oh my goodness there's so many opportunities to have a full-on meltdown in this work, >> right? And so changing the framework and stopping for a minute and say okay what's the outcome that we want to have pandemic we want kids to keep learning we have to keep teaching

204what's the best way with the environment that we're in that kids can learn right now the best way kids can learn is to be online. The outcome is kids keep learning rather than focusing on the anxiety of what the heck do we do in a pandemic? This isn't in the guide book for being a school board member, >> right? >> Yeah. I wanted to bring it um the attention back to the article that you shared about the future orientation also and that um for leaders dealing in poly crisis environment that being outcomes or futures focused allows us to sort of like cut down on the you know the anxiety that happens and like oh my god there's a change happening and instead like you said kind of be that unflapable leader that says you know

205third grade will still happen the buses will still run they might be on different routes we might have you We're still going to be doing the work >> in a calm >> I point out the emotions still happen. >> Absolutely. >> Right. It's just about the the yes and right. >> Right. The emotions still happen and it's good to acknowledge emotions when they happen. There can be grief involved. Right. Certainly there can be anxiety. But then >> if you're able to start talking about you know the light post instead of freezing at the stress of the problem >> future orientation. Yeah, >> I guess I was play devil's advocate a little bit. Um I don't know that problem, anxiety, reaction to your point, there are still emotions goes away and I I just want to

206hold space for like the problem is there and if we just call it outcome, we have to give space for like the anxiety that comes with the problem. Um, and anxiety, at least for me, and I'm fortunate that I don't struggle with anxiety generally, and it can be a very um, like empowering and like momentum bringing for me to have the problem and then the anxiety that comes with it and the reaction, but the reaction is more like working towards an outcome. Um, and so I guess I'm seeing this for me as like the problem and then whatever my reaction to the problem sort of drives me to an outcome. I don't know. I guess I don't I'm not I don't know that supplanting it >> just changes anything. And the anxiety is still going

207to be there. And so anxiety perhaps like anger and rage can can be short and a burst of energy to drive some personalities to do something. Hence an outcome and a passion and I don't know. So I I don't see these and maybe that's good as we're moving forward. I don't see these as separate or simply like oh just vote for outcome and problem goes away or vote for passion and anxiety goes away. I I think they're so intertwined. Um, so yeah, maybe it's it's refraraming that because >> and we've all had those moments where anxiety becomes debilitating. Yeah. >> And then nothing is happening. I have >> all three of my children. If it starts with a then we have it in our household. So all I've got three children with anxiety and when

208that pops up, nothing happens. >> Totally. So what when we talk about anxiety, what we're meaning is that moment where everything freezes and then nothing is happening and then you're just you're going on your amydala response rather than pausing and refraraming it as passion. I'm going to re move put move this out of my amygdala and bring in my prefrontal cortex and take this as passion because crazy is still happening in DC >> and my passion is the 22,000 kids in my district are still going to learn and they're still going to thrive and I am not going to let this another way of handling it was oh my god oh my god oh my god what is happening I don't know what to do and I was getting phone calls from people that were

209long, you know, what are you doing? Nothing because that's the best we are focusing on educating our kids, right? So that's the that's the language we're using and that's why we're trying to get so that in that moment when you have that next crisis appear rather than getting fixated and locked into the anxiety of oh my god we have budget cuts. Oh my god, we have budget cuts. Oh my god, we have budget cuts. Okay, where's our passion? My passion is that the 50,000 students of the Portland school district, they're still going to thrive. So, how do we take that of having to have budget cuts and iterate it in a way so they get to still thrive even though there's this right >> and if I could add a little bit I think what

210this helps just again it's a model right like you could totally you know kick holes in it but you know it is very easy when you're a leader to become imshed in what you don't control and it could be hard to separate out okay you know people were asking us to lobby lobby DC and we're like again we're on a list how much influence do we have in DC so it allowed us to separate out what we control from what we don't and so just it's just a framing to think about that >> any other examples you all might have within the Portland context >> yeah the last board meeting the um some of our came and talked about one the things they were doing and how they were keeping teacher education and people buildings

211supporting teachers and this is when they know they're having to cut the number of supports >> and I even asked how are you going to do this going down and they were just you know it wasn't like well we've given up because we have to cut So that was for me a really good example of >> take your passion do what you can do but not to give up at all conversation um where we redrew through textual boundaries essentially and we could have gotten really high center on statement because they were super vocal. Um, and they were an elementary school that didn't want the parent community was mixed, but we were hearing a lot from parents who wanted their kids to stay going to Grant one high school and not go to this other high

212school. And rather than getting like high centered on that, I think we kept open. It was more like we have a process. The process is we're going to hear from people. And then all of a sudden, we started hearing from other people that felt like it was really important for saving kids to go to Jefferson for their kids to have the robust offerings that are required students at that school. So, I guess just what I'm trying to get at is like we kind of kept our eyes on the prize of like we want to have this high school be functional and we didn't focus so much on like what we were hearing. And it turned out by like keeping ourselves focused on the outcome, we didn't like a let a problem make the decision early

213for us. And then in the end that problem sort of like fizzled out for a variety of reasons. Um, and those kids will now go to Jefferson. So anyway, I thought that might might be one that could apply. But let's own the emotion. It's anxiety producing to have parents coming and yelling at you, >> right? That produces anxiety to have them come. And so then >> and even harder when they're nice to you, invite you to coffee and talk to you. >> Yes. And so again, re Okay. Recognizing owning it. Okay. This is producing anxiety. Having these people yell at me, send me nasty emails, call me, stop me in the grocery store. Okay. But my passion is and we all heard it is we want people to have access. We want to be able

214to share their thoughts and concerns without causing the anxiety to freeze us because that is a common response then for board members of oh my god people are yelling at me then we can't do this because there are people yelling. So no boundary changes right we have we want we only are going to do boundary changes if nobody yells at us. So never changing boundaries ever again right. So this is just a way of thinking of okay this is good people are understanding and we had a fantastic moment where we we rebounded twothirds of our district twothirds of our kids were going to start school in the fall at a different school than where they were at in the spring which we we did the whole thing >> for a lot of reasons but yeah

215>> for a lot of reasons and we start we had the boundaries finalized a year and a half in advance of when they were going to be implemented. So we had it done in the spring that fall another school year. So everybody got to get their swag and their meeta and all the things and join the PTAs and all the things. So, four months before this is going to start, we have a town hall and this parent is talking and then it she was talking about the upcoming boundary changes, blah blah blah. And this other parent was like, "Wait, there's boundary changes?" Well, how am I supposed to know where my kids going to go to school? I thought the whole rest of the room was going to lose it. This is all we've talked

216about for June anyway. So, yay. they're paying attention, right? So, you know, it's reframing of like, oh, good. People are hearing us, then the word is getting out that we're doing these things, which is huge, right? Because that's the other nightmare is that you've talked and they're not paying attention. So, reframing it. Okay, this is good. Community are hearing. I'm hearing from the community. I'm hearing what they have to say. I'm taking it in. Sometimes we've tweaked boundary changes because we hear from a community about accessibility to the school and not being able to walk if needed and so forth, right? And so that that's the passion. That's that how that we talked about. What is my value? My value is hearing from the community, but we still got to we can't have 3,000 kids

217at one high school and 600 at another, right? So there's a value also of So that's that's what this is at. Okay, next question. >> May May I just add that a lot of conversations that'll be on the horizon will require um that we that we do learn how to consider it different because we we will have lots of people in our inboxes and in our meetings um that are really passionate. And you know, it's understanding when we when when we hear from people that they're representing their own voice and perhaps that of others, but not necessarily everyone, but they um you know, have the wherewithal to show up here and and advocate. So, I I mean, I literally just try to be open when I'm hearing from people, understanding that that's not how everyone

218feels and um it's still really important. So, >> you know, >> but there's going to be a lot of intense testimony coming up. Just I think >> and and thank you for that because some an unspoken thing here is that it is with all the finite resources in public education, it's impossible to create a solution that 100% makes everyone 100% happy at that same time, >> right? And so, this is just something it's it's just hard. So just to give you something that would help you think about you know iterating towards the outcomes you're hoping for gives space for not inadvertently something we have an unspoken commitment about is not trying our hardest is hard >> to not have one one aspect of our community feel like they're getting pitted against another aspect of our

219community. This can happen with programs sometimes our highly capable program like and special education services the dynamic there >> and it's really hard to navigate but by focusing more on the outcomes than you know what what problems happening in a specific building has helped us navigate that so that's another reason we wanted to help with it >> okay and because iteration is so hard >> there's yeah totally >> I I know you just said that it's virtually impossible to create a process that's perfect Like I really I just we've all said this before and I just want to say it again. I think the district did such a great job with the Jefferson process and even though there are I'm I know families out there who are not happy. Um we all know that we

220will never make everyone happy. We can't all probably agree what color the sky is today, let alone how to make a high school work. But I was like deeply profoundly moved in in a good way about the interaction that the district had with the listening sessions that public testimony where we just sat there and just listened for three hours, two and a half. I mean like it but the time ended. We didn't run out of time and still have people lined up to comment. the comment ended before we thought it would, which sort of felt like people who wanted to say something got a chance through all of these different processes. So, um I I know our district can do it. It was really cool to see. So, I just want to call it out.

221Yeah. >> What a great example. >> It was really good. >> Was a great example. >> Yeah. So, appreciate learning about that. >> Yeah. >> And so, but it it sounded like an iterative process, right? >> Right. like not assuming to find the solution all at once, but listening, trying the next, trying the next, trying the next. >> Yeah, >> it can be hard. >> All right, so I'm getting the >> Okay. All right. Now, we're we're on to the next question, which would have been really smart on my part to have the question. I remember what it was. Um, okay. So this is about how you work as a team and something to think about and one for me one of the gifts of being elected from a director area to a board is

222that means you're not in competition with each other. Nobody is going to take your job that is on this board. Right? And there's no award for best individual board member. Right? There are awards for best boards, but no best board member. So, it is in the best interest of the board. It's in the best interest of the 50,000 students in Portland schools for you to empower each other to be the best. You're not in competition with each other. Sorry. No, no Oscar for best board member. Sorry. Although we do have we actually have little Oscars. We brought them out. We it's a long story but we have got them during the pandemic and now we kind of wave them when there's a particularly fantastic public comment performance. You think that was an Oscar winning anyway.

223Okay. So there are three ways, three roles, three um to to be there and you don't lock into one and that's who you are all the time in board discussions and it isn't, you know, Eddie isn't always the challenger and Virginia isn't always the coach, right? You that it just naturally as the situation, the topic, the setting that will flow. So, one of them is the creator. That one is the one that's like, "Okay, where are we headed? Where are we trying to go? I'm trying to figure out takes responsibility for choosing how to respond, right? That's gets that to that value statement. Let's be thinking about, you know, I feel like we've gotten off topic." That's the creator of let's think about what if we did X, could we do this? Is this an

224option? Right? That's a creator. That's playing the role of the creator. Okay. Then there's the challenger. This is not adversarial. This is um I I also, you know, do the softball. I let her super ask some questions so that our community can hear. But um it's as learning how to ask questions to gain understanding without that um underlying I'm I'm angry mode. So when I first came on the board, we had tried before I came on the board, uh there had been a try they tried to close a school. It did not go well. It was a complete disaster. we we could dive into the processes that were used and how that didn't go well. I did not come in as a result, but the other two people that were elected, we had a turn

225a turnover of the majority of the board absolutely came in as a result of this disastrous school closure situation. They didn't actually end up closing the school. Um, and about six months later, we're in a meeting. We're in an executive session because we're purchasing real estate and they're showing us this property and the money we're going to spend on buying this real estate. And I'm sitting there going and then finally I just, huh, how is it that we need to buy property if we just tried to close the school two years ago? What's what am I missing? And later people were like, you were the only one that could ask that question. And then they explained it was, you know, 2011. So it was 2010. It was right as we were coming out of recession.

226They said the number of permits that had been filed. It was thousands and thousands of houses that we were about to have built in our district. And so they were like, you know, blah blah blah. This is what's going on when we try to close school. Wasn't beginning a recession anyway. So it all made total sense. And I was like, okay, that is what I need to know. And then I when this rolls out, when people find out we've just bought property two years after trying to close a school, the board now can explain to the community, here's why. Here's what the difference is. Right? That's the role of a challenger, right? being able to, okay, I need to ask a question in a way that's not combative, but I need clarity because I know

227I'm going to be held account when I'm out in the community of why, what, how did this happen? Michelle, you had your do does your district regularly use housing starts when you're doing your planning? >> Oh, yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. The counties are not the developers, the counties, the cities. They don't have a requirement to let us know. >> And we have five municipalities that our district covers. So we actually have a staff member that like literally was driving around during this period >> fasting. Yeah. >> I I mean we've used that here. I think we've used some demographic data >> and housing starts particularly in the Jefferson cluster. >> Yeah. >> Um >> because it it looks like there's not a lot of kids feeding in. But when you look at the permits that

228are happening >> I was wondering of what it would have sound like if you were competitive. What what how would >> have you lost your mind? What? How is this possible? Why on earth would you be buying property? You were just We just had a whole debacle over a school closure. >> Okay. >> Yeah. What? What? And then kind of with a What are you up to? What? >> You're hiding something. >> They're hiding something. Yeah. Asking that question. Yeah. Very suspicious. Why would you be doing this? >> Versus like curious. It sounds like that's a when I first read Challenger, it's like that's a negative dynamic, but if it's someone that's kind of using that like appreciative inquiry, you know, I'm curious about this, >> why would we why would we do why would

229we be buying property when we're trying to close a school? >> Yeah. >> And last time we got together in January, we had this conversation of of is conflict good or bad, >> right? And so the nice thing about the this this dynamic the parent dynamic that um David Emerald named it is that >> you that question needs to be asked. It absolutely needs to be asked but again it's outcome focused right so it keeps the process growing. Mhm. >> There's so much distressed from the community. If you look at the recent budget gap that we're dealing with for this year and just the like the suspicion and the things that are thrown out there like unauthorized spending, I don't know where that came from, but that's not the cause of this issue. But people,

230so when we foster that same sense of suspicion, I think it just fuels that from the community, which doesn't mean we shouldn't challenge, but when we're coming out of that like orientation of curiosity, then we're getting to an answer and we're not um just kind of like feeding the the toxic mistrust And it's accountable, right? You're being accountable, >> but it it keeps the process moving. >> Yeah. >> Right. Yeah. Because absolutely you need to ask questions. This is a huge system and it's complex and there's a lot of moving parts and nobody is going to know everything about everything at all the same time. And so learning the it's question asking is an art and a science. learning how to ask those questions and developing that trust of I just need to understand >>

231right three months ago we were a balanced budget what happened >> why do we now have to cut $20 million >> right not and learning how to ask that in a way that doesn't sound like who needs to be fired >> yes >> yeah who's who is embezzling money it's just >> yes >> okay what what has changed in the last three months what did I miss what don't I understand. >> Um I want to just mention something that is a little tangential but related to like the sort of toxicity in the community. I think everyone knows that I basically got off Facebook. um because I was so anxious on December 2nd because of the Facebook chatter and like all the tension and so I basically like have gone on to like do a couple

232things like I went on on my birthday and said thanks to people who but otherwise I'm so I don't like completely get off it but I don't look at stuff. Um, one fascinating thing is when I do go on, like literally all I see are like the stuff from like the North Northeast Portland group and the like it's like nothing like my mom's posts are like seventh down after I see every recent post from the school stuff which I just find fascinating. But um, but I do read our email that we get and it's just kind of interesting to think about. Um, and maybe this again I know it's tangential, but like we need to figure out like what like how much credence to like give the Facebook chatter because I'm off and I'm not

233hearing it and I'm not walking my kids to school every day and seeing parents who ask me questions all the time. They're not like >> having that same attitude. You know what I mean? It's like >> Yeah. So, I'm just sort of it's just like interesting to think about like how much of that is a particular subset of people who are wanting to be really angsty >> and like driving that conversation. >> Um, and then how much is authentically in the community cuz if I'm not >> hearing it at all, >> then it's not coming via our email. It's not coming via the, you know, 30 or 40 parents I see every day or the teachers I see at school >> when I'm there Fridays. >> So, I I don't know. It's a great question.

234>> I'm just throwing it out there. I don't know the answer, but I'm glad other people are paying attention to it because it's really important that we hear it. Um, and have people who are thicker skinned than me to hear it. Um, but it's just an interesting thing to think about. And I'm sorry, it's like in this focusing on the problem versus outcomes part of that. >> Yeah. And I but I because what I'm trying to get at is I think it's like the focusing on the problem versus the outcome. like if we get sucked in too much over there >> and and Facebook is a gift that keeps on giving um social media and we actually um part of the workshop around how to engage with community is who is the community. And so

235we do work where we have everybody spitball and popcorn out who popcorn's probably better than spitball popcorn out. um who is the community and that you know brings up and then we'll then we talk about okay who aren't we hearing from right we've got oh the Facebook group yep we we hear a lot from them you know email okay who are the communities that we are not hearing from and how do we meaningfully engage with them so right and that that is a multi-hour thing so I hear you and you are not alone the reason it is a workshop is because it is very very common. Uh how do we understand what we're seeing in social media? How representative is it? And it also has a tone and is that reflective of what's really happening.

236And it's great that you're finding ways to be out in the community outside of social media because that does help keep you balanced. >> Yeah. >> Of like, oh, okay, the bus stop because we've got a board member. >> The bus stop is more upset, right, than social media. So that helps of like oh the if the bus stop is upset then we know we've got a problem that we need to talk about. Right. So that's all we we absolutely >> did you have something? Oh, I was just going to say that I think it's similar to the comment about the saving, right? Like it's just a different set of loud >> and being able to focus on the outcome >> like Yeah. >> And at the same time helping people feel that they've been

237heard. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Yeah. But yeah, folks. >> Yeah. >> All right. There's one more. >> Okay. And then one more is the coach. And again, this isn't just the longest serving or just the president is everybody has opportunities to be the coach, but that's guiding others. What I've heard I just I want to double back to what uh Christie was saying. I I heard you saying and I want to make sure that you know I think she made a really great point when she said that, right? Those are opportunities. Um, okay. I just I got distracted with the not the rescuer because oh, Amy and I, we love to rescue. We >> have to sit on my hand. >> We wanna solve that problem. And part of that job with the coach

238is like, okay, I'm not fixing it for you. Oh, left fix, but helping you take agency in the situation and move to be even better at your work. Right? So, um I we have a board member right now that really wants to post things on social media. She really wants to share her thoughts about national international events. I'm trying to coach her through, okay, I'm not saying you don't have freedom of speech, but there are consequences to that. Um I can't fix it. I can't go in and erase her social media. So just getting her to be a little proactive with okay if I post this do we have families in the district for whom this may be a hurtful statement >> even though right so it it's hard to not want to jump in

239and say that we have another board member that Amy and I both got worked with lovely human on the human rights commission made some very um strong statements about the situation in Gaza don't disagree Turns out we have a lot of Israeli American families living in our district and that produced uproar, right? So it's just recognizing help coaching board members through that you are a free agent. You get to say what you got to say, but there are consequences to that. Some of them are great. Some are really good consequences. Some of them are not going to be. And you can't control. >> We get to be on the what's what's Jason Rance? One of our local all the local talk radio. Yeah. Loves to fixate on, you know, whatever a board member said on

240social media. So, >> Oh, wow. >> It's It's clean up. >> Cascade Policy Institute. >> We have an organization that's oddly focused on us. >> Yes. Exactly. Right. So, yeah. >> A lot of attention. >> Yeah. Weirdly in a way. >> Yeah. Exactly. They are they are obsessed with us. >> They used to be focused on other things. >> Yeah. >> Very very schoolboard oriented these days. >> Right. And so it's just recognizing I still have agency. I still get to say what I want to say. Is it worth the trouble that this is going to spin up if I say what I need to say? And that's just one small example, but that's the idea of being a coach is Eddie, whoever is just like, "Yep, I hear you. I don't disagree. Is this

241the best place to share or to deal with that situation?" So how does this again model of how to work through you know when you're doing iteration um thinking forward for outcomes and you need to constantly be processing these hard questions you know thinking about um how to and it it might be deliberate might not be deliberate but if you're in a situation how can I be a creator or a challenger or a coach I mean how does this resonate with you is this is this helpful is it wonky. What do you think? >> I don't know. I think it's pretty natural. I mean, you would you would just do one >> or the other. Yeah. Depending on the >> problem and and really we're just trying to raise it to the conscious level. A

242lot of this is subconscious, right? we we tend to fall into these roles and what we're doing is bringing it to a conscious level and taking what may be a role that you tend to do and either okay how do I do this in the most effective way i.e. I'm a challenger. How do I do that in a way where the work moves forward and doesn't stop because I've just created, you know, put threw a stink bomb in the middle of things. Um, or a coach, right? I'm a naturally a coach. How do I do that in a way where what I'm saying is being heard and responded to that the defenses don't go up? So, it's again bringing that to a conscious level. And then sometimes like, oh, you know what? I've I've done

243the challenger role a lot. Maybe I need to think about some other ways that I can come at this work. Maybe I need to take a moment and try to be a leader. >> Yeah. >> And it's not, you know, again, our conversation in January is conflict is over here, collaboration is over here. What do we do? So, this is again very non-binary and fluid to your point, Stephanie, too, just to to help give you guys something to think about. >> You Oh, I just said fluid like I'm not always going to be a coach. terminal. It's going to be a creator. It's going to be situation dependent. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> I think I wonder if that just requires that like intentional pause for self-awareness. >> Absolutely. >> That responding instead of reacting

244really quick, right? That's a good point. >> Yeah. Think about what am I doing here? >> Well, and like you said, >> Yeah. >> Are you working toward the goal? >> Okay. >> Great. >> All right. So, do we want another break? We've been working for many hours. We're about ready to transition into doing our practice, which is where we're going to talk about emails coming in. It sounds like we had consensus on doing that. And then I we're chatting real quick during lunch break that talking about how we're going to walk you through how to how to maybe sketch out a process on how to respond to email. It'll actually set you up for the broader community engagement conversation of which public comment is a huge part of. Um, but would you all like

245a break since we've been making you work really hard before we do that? >> I'm like such a movement person. I would not mind stretching. I wouldn't mind just I can't sit for this many hours. >> Yeah, let's just The clock is so not helpful. I >> It's 1:00 basically like 5 minute. Let's do that. That sounds great. Do the stairs >> math or whatever, you know, but it's like, okay, it's fine. But >> but it's like, >> all right. How's it is everyone ready for the home stretch? >> Let's do it. >> All right. So, I was very happy to find this graphic because of the little Rubik's cubes that we put in your baskets. >> See? Right. So um so here this is going to be the time >> just to consciously thread

246everything together. We we talked about the elements of trust right we talked about the ABC model and where the different aspects of the work live. We talk about how to, you know, focus on an outcome orientation to keep the process moving and if iteration needs a little support, what kind of um what kind of uh approaches we can keep in mind to empower our team to keep that work moving. So, we're going to practice. So, just want to verify we are doing an approach to what happens when people email into the school board. And we had talked about this because we heard it come up quite a bit in January. Um we also know that it's a it's a a very great example of schoolboard work because again it talks about the what and the

247supports and the how as well as the external legal responsibilities you have to keep in mind. Um, and we also heard some outcomes that people were hoping for. >> And we can Yeah, maybe it was because I was virtual and I think Kayla had to leave early, but um, can you just do a quick recap on some of that stuff like what the out like I think I'm missing. >> So this is what and actually that would be really helpful and this is going to be a process. You all are going to design this anyways. We heard that when email comes in that there there was a desire to talk about what would happen because some outcomes that people were hoping for weren't necessarily present. For example, um how do we know we're coordinating a

248response in a way that is helpful? How do we make sure everyone is kept up to date? If you know if there's a protocol that the board chair responds on behalf of the board, how does everyone get that information? What if it's a really hot topic? what if only one board member gets emailed and or the whole board gets emailed. You know, there were some complexities that were just kind of bubbling up. >> And so, it's sounded like an open question to us and then when we were talking about a way of of having a little case study to help you all practice applying what we all talk about that it it would be one and how we're going to do it again will be an additive process. You you can take some of this

249and build more community engagement conversations off of it. And I think >> can you check me? >> I think that sounds great. I'll add two things that I remember from the conversation. One was like I think there's like some sort of shared desire that we all kind of think I'm we all kind of think people deserve a response, but like also we get a ton of email. So it's like how do we somehow balance like what's realistic as far as getting back to people with somehow getting back to people. So, I kind of remember something about is there like a way to organize so that we don't all feel compelled to reply to everybody or something like some division of labor sort of thing that could happen. And I remember Patty specifically, I think she

250was the one who maybe brought this idea up initially and she mentioned how like she doesn't feel and I think we've you two kind of feel like it's more for staff to get back to emails. So like getting them to the right person or but I think Patty was saying she's just gotten to where she gets them and doesn't know if she should respond or not. So there's just like whatever like so there's confusion about like >> who's on first who's responsible leads to sort of some level of like paralysis for like not to speak for Patty but that was what I remember you bringing up. >> Yeah. And just not knowing >> often not knowing the answer first. >> Um you could just say you know I got your email. I'm sending it some

251I usually send it on >> to Rosanne to send the appropriate staff >> and Rosanne did have a point but Eddie do you want to have go first? >> Yeah. I clarify a question. The board gets emailed directly to them as individuals. They also get an email where it goes to all of them at the same time. So they could I think that's also where some of that comes in. >> Very helpful context. Thank you. >> Yeah. Um, yeah, >> I think my uh remembered I mean I I knew that was one of the issues, but I thought the main issue was kind of the emails that the board sends to staff. >> That's what I thought I was I was confused as to what we were talking about, >> right? And in terms of

252like the email triage was what we called it where some emails are like good to know for, you know, for information, but what are some, you know, versus emails that are necessary for like an upcoming board decision or or whatnot. in terms of like the load of emails, the questions that come to staff is overwhelming and so how do you prioritize which one need to be answered and which ones can wait? Um, and that's what I thought was the main crux of the issue. >> Okay. >> Can I also ask I or maybe ask a clarifying question. Is this also Yes. What do we I I think it'd be helpful to map out all of the inputs, all of the ways that we get information uh emails and what the digestion process for that needs

253to be. But also, um sometimes we get a single board member that'll ask a question and that might require staff resources or or will require for certain. And do we do we need to understand if there are more than one board member that's interested in it? >> Yeah. >> I mean I'm just curious and I'm also asking like I think it'd be helpful to map out so we get things that go to every single school board member. We get as individual me board members we get information coming in. >> Um >> no this is this is great and this is why >> this is how to map out like the process >> and that's exactly what we're going to do. Our next slide is the process. >> Excellent. So, but first we're going to start

254with an agreement on what we want to talk about. Very happy to talk about when school board members have an information request because we had talked about that a little bit. The triage concept. We talked about that in January. We can start with that and then go into what happens when So, that's an outgoing email from the board as opposed to incoming. Is that what you wrote down? >> That is exactly. >> We've worked together a long time. So, incoming versus outgoing. Perhaps outgoing email since we had started that conversation in January would be a good place to start and then we can flip it over because it is a more complex but we have a way of of getting through the complexity. Michelle, thank you for pointing out the complexity of all the ways

255to flowchart what happens when email comes in to the board but we'll do the outgoing first. >> Okay, >> great. >> I thought we decided I'm sorry I I thought >> I thought we decided that in I misunderstood like I been trying to do that when I send emails. I've not been great at it, but I'm like just assuming that that makes a whole bunch of sense. And >> well, you know what? This could be a little practice for the process and then we can maybe get to the outgoing. >> All right. Because we did talk about it. >> Email information requests. All right. >> What did we decide last time? Um it was like to say share like an urgency level. So what I'm going to suggest we do because that was we it

256was our intention Sandy my intention that that triage idea with the information level what would be a first step in defining the process would love to hear how it went because if it went well we'll put it in the process and keep building on it make sure there aren't gaps in that but let's get to the process. Yeah Eddie >> I thought maybe this this is where we could practice the iteration part of that process. >> Absolutely. So, so we we have stated absolutely right. So, we've stated um that what we're going to talk about here, we're going to design a process around and this is first of all, let me just say as a disclaimer, everything we're going to do this afternoon is going to be a draft. We will organize it for you,

257pass back the artifact, right? In case you want to think about it overnight, you want to you want to deliberate on it a little bit more. So, no pressure that today's the final final. Okay? Sometimes that helps with the process. So, first of all, >> can I just underscore what I think I heard you say that while we're talking about email as a case study, you want us to be leaned into how we work our way through this process for all the other things that we'll address later. >> It is this is meant to be a supportive process. It will have different levels of complexity, but yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Great. >> We have found this flow has worked well for us over the years, right? Okay. And sometimes it takes more study,

258more iteration, but the flow in general has worked out for us. It was adding agenda items. That was really what what kicked off for our board, what we had to really fine-tune. And so it it worked out and it stood the test of time. So first of all, let's talk about so we're clarity is so helpful. So we're talking about information requests outgoing from the board to staff. So let's talk let's start with the how the desire. Well, the what the desired outcomes and then we're going to talk about the how, how that pulls in the values and commitments that support that part of the work. But in terms of how information requests are part of the board's work, let's talk about what desired outcomes board members are hoping for when they send an information

259request. >> My back is turned so either Sandy can help me. So, >> information request that we sent. >> Yes, that we sent. >> That's what we're going to start with. >> What's the goal? What What do you want when you send an information request? >> There's no wrong or right or answers. Why are you doing this? >> Information. You want You want an answer to a question? >> Should we practice the first part of what we talk about like going in around? >> Oh, yeah. >> Taking turns. >> Steph just started practicing all >> I think a question. because I'm curious and so I would like an information and an answer which may not be a full stop may come back with more but I'm not doing it because I I'm not interested in

260the answer I'm looking for an answer >> okay um yes and I think like sometimes it's a question that I have sometimes it's a question that has come from the community sometimes times like there are different types of questions. So I guess like ultimately the outcome is is always for information but to to what end right like is it to inform my own decision making or is it to be able to relay something back to somebody else or is it because I'm thinking something like broader but I need to fill in some gaps first. I would say that too. Sometimes things from come from the community only to me. Other times um things come in. I wonder if the entire board might be interested in knowing what the answers are. Um I have very few

261like process questions I think. Um but yeah, it's a it's rare, but if it's either something I need further clarification on or something from the community. Can can you go deeper on that for me, Michelle? So, you said it's not often a process. >> For me, the questions I have are more like somebody asked me, for instance, um >> what the costs for transportation for one of our our lottery schools. >> Okay. So, so, >> so that's not something I'm necessarily curious about, but it's like, oh, yeah, maybe I would like to know uh what that is, but that that's something that's initiated by a community member. Um, >> but it's outside, if I'm hearing you correctly, it's information outside the scope of board work. So, you don't have access to it. >> Well, I

262know that there's no way to know everything about the district. And I also am very careful like I'm sort of um curate what what I do need to know. Um, >> so I I guess I'm saying I don't ask questions necessarily because I'm I'm uh curious about it personally. The question, let's say about transportation costs might come from a community member that's curious in the context of a larger budget discussion what we're spending on in a particular area. That's a case where I would email and ask the question. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I also think perhaps other other my other board colleagues might want to know as well. >> Okay. >> I'm listening Eddie. Oh, okay. Um, I think 90% of my emails fall into or 50% of my emails 50% 90% of my

263emails. Uh, whatever. >> I I basically have two generally types of emails I send. One is uh information for an upcoming decision. >> Okay? >> Like whether that's more details, numbers, statistics, whatever. Um, and the second type is emails so that I can help better represent the information to the community. So, usually it's like for example um clarifying questions about process or whatnot, you know, like recently a lot of emails about boundary and things like that. And so, um, I'll I'll send in questions like, hey, how can I represent this or share the information so that Yeah. Sure. Thank you. >> Um for me um mine are generally in response to um something that's on the agenda or was on the agenda. Sometimes I have issues after issues but questions after a meeting um that

264I want to follow up on um or in response to a significant community concern like I try to filter so I'm not forwarding every question along. If I know the answer, if I can get a quick answer, I'll get it. Um, you know, I can think of, you know, a couple out there for me right now. One is, you know, we did our division 22 presentation last fall and I have um questions about, you know, the number of exemptions for our high school seniors and whether or not they're um less than 40% are fully scheduled. That's a real concern of mine. So, I'm looking for that data um to better understand um what that looks like, you know, at school level. And then um for the budget questions we have right now like a budget

265to actual so we can see um the detail on um where our issues were with the the 22 million um right now and then you know we're getting ready for the next budgeting season um what that would look like for us because part of our job is to understand the budget and approve it. So those are the tens of mine tend to my probably tend to be bigger questions >> like that. >> Okay. super helpful. But it it sounds like if I'm hearing correctly around supporting the decision- making. >> Yes. >> Okay. Yes. Okay. Thank you for that. Appreciate that. >> I don't think I have anything to add. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Great model. >> I seem to get a lot of questions relating to problems with hiring and firing. >> Oh, staff

266questions >> and staff questions. >> Okay. which I obviously cannot answer, >> right? >> And so I send them on to Roseanne with the please send this to the appropriate person which passes it off me >> and I do not respond to them because I do not um have the authority or the >> So you're talking about if I'm hearing correctly questions coming in from community in terms of you your um your choice to ask staff for information. Um, is there anything around um what informs your background to ask staff for information? Like is there anything besides what we've talked about to support, you know, an upcoming conversation in a meeting to um respond to community members when it's in the administrative realm and outside of the board's purview? Anything? >> Well, I think I

267was kind of told to do that when I first joined the board a couple of years ago. >> Okay. >> Not not to go to individual staff like not to go to HR, right? but to send it through. >> Okay. Super helpful. >> Can I say something? I was thinking of an example. Actually, you just reminded me of something in in August when it was super hot. >> Probably everybody was hearing, but I was getting direct to me pictures of thermometers from teachers in schools that I'd gone to the whatever. And >> obviously not not something that I can directly respond to except to say thank you for your response. But I was forwarding it up onto Kimberly because I knew she was trying to make a bigger important decision about what to do to

268keep all the, you know, schools safe, which is going to anger a lot of people who had blah blah blah. Um, and so similar like like I was just sending that on to be like, I'm hearing from this, you may not be, but >> so you have information that you may need, >> right? And super important to to pivot that around. I'm going to just work on helping us keep this narrow because the question was how do we want to process when a board member needs information. Right. So you were you were passing along feedback which is super important but I think for this I think it'll help. Yeah. No because again >> engagement right back to the original site I got for your decision by being like >> she's closed schools and let me

269tell you why I was hearing from all these people. she, you know, it was like a big circle where I got to say like, "Yay, superintendent made a good decision." Anyway, I got off. >> No, no, the super helpful, right? But it again, this is what happens with community engagement questions. >> Um, so Eddie, should we go around one more time and see if anyone else has anything to add? Is that our new practice that we're >> trying in the middle? Check for clarifying questions. >> I have a clarifying question, I guess. Um your question is discuss desired outcomes when we have information requests. I kind of want to name that what I heard at the last meeting was um a diff a different desired a desired outcome that is under that would be part

270of this process >> involving and I actually kind of take a little bit umbrage with it so it's funny to bring it up but um like considering something along like the idea of having like a second person be required to sign on to a question before it gets answered. That's something Michelle's brought up a couple times >> or like considering workload. So if we're designing a process for this, >> other people who have that concern might want to also bring that here, right? >> So I'm going to put that under. >> Yeah, I appreciate you saying that because I have said that several times and it's important as we uh like future thinking. Right now we're the the staff is constrained and next year it's going to be we're we're gonna notice a difference. >>

271So I'm gonna push pause on you for just a second Michelle because what I want to separate is there is a desired outcome of recognizing staff workload. We will problem solve how to do that >> as we go along. Right. >> Under constraints. I was going to put it under constraints. That staff workload is a constraint. So how do you how do you work with that? Right. And I was just trying to say I appreciate my colleague for recognizing something I've said over and over. >> Um and I finally feel hurt. Thank you. >> Yeah, you're hurt. >> Um are you going through and answering all the questions individually? >> Well, I we're going to stick with one, but I was not going to lose track of that. So, just any other desired outcome. So

272when a board for understanding where the board um information requests come from is relevant, right? So the desired outcome is trying to prep for a meeting, right? Trying trying to respond to a community member's request. Um it the idea that it's um and this is probably this is going to fall into the idea that it's not a lot of questions aren't within the board's responsibility or purview, right? So how do you deal with that? Um, if there's anything else I was going to add another layer of questions on one before we move on, but I maybe would just say another desired outcome. There was like the wanting information, but it's also like learning. >> Um, >> just learning. >> Yeah. And maybe this bridges us into number two, speaking of us being bridges, >> but

273we've talked about being like having a growth mindset and being a district that like cares about learning and training and >> um, so maybe it spills into that, but I just think part of the outcome is like creating board members who understand how the district works, >> right? >> Because I bet a lot of questions are really of that like I just don't know because I'm new here. How does this work? >> So maybe it's more of a relevant value. >> No, that's really helpful. Yeah. Um I don't know how I do it, but um oftentimes if you look at to see who has been copied on the email like if the question is something about class size and Cardona's been copied, I probably don't need to answer it because the person that would be

274sent to would be him. Even though I sometimes do it, don't I? We'll say again, send it to the right person and she might say, well, he's already been copied. Well, so in that instance, you don't have to ask staff for that spec size information. >> I would think not, but I would like your opinion on that actually. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Thank you for I have Yeah. Michelle, >> I have a clarifying question too. Um, I have heard that if staff are copied on an email that it is like the the highest ranking staff sets the like the highest ranking person on there is the person who's expected to reply. So, if someone lower ranking in staff is on that email and has an answer or wants to reply, but their boss is on

275the email, then they shouldn't reply. And then if their boss doesn't reply, that leads to that community member's question not getting answered and then them feeling dismissed and ignored. So, it's a twofold question. It's one, is that true? and two, where do we fit into that? Because if we're also copied and we reply, then maybe staff feel like they need to not reply now. >> So, we're we're going to put that one in the parking lot because that's an incoming email question. Very important one. >> Um, but it is an incoming one. So, we're going to save that for that conversation. >> Okay. >> Super super important. Um, >> anyone else have anything from Elen? cuz I want to I want to add a little layer of complexity to this. It something we talked about

276last time was level of urgency. So in terms of time is a variable which is really helpful to understand in policy development. Time is a variable. So what is the board's desired outcome for um information they need right away? How is that tied into the board's work? So if the urgent level is p, so if we're doing that triage, we're sending a request to Kimberly and that board member has said this is super urgent. How does that tie into the board's work just so we can add parameters around it? >> How does it Okay, >> I don't think I understand. >> Okay, so thank you. Thank you for that. I'll back it up a little bit. So is t in terms of how to add the um Is there a and there may the answer

277might be there's no difference right but if there's a board meeting happening in three days and a board member needs information to get ready for the conversation does that impact desired outcomes at all as opposed to we know the board meeting's next month when that topic's coming up so it's less it's less urgent does it impact at all maybe the level of urgency is not something we have to capture I just remember hearing the conversation last time >> yeah and and there's also level of urgency like my sister used to say there's kid urgency like where are my pink nails you know, right? >> Um I think that that when it when it does get urgent, it's kind of urgent for everybody because we might need the information urgently and then staff is all also

278urgently working to get a presentation finished or to do the research that they need to present. So, it's kind of a it's we're bumping up against like two cases of like it's all urgent >> before a board meeting. So maybe maybe the decision um tree is is is the urgency needed in order to have the conversation and if there's a vote or not perhaps I mean if there's not a vote and you just want to know because you're curious right >> that's valid and maybe that waits >> right thank you so I'm going to I'm putting it under constraints because I think you're right it'll create different cases in the flowchart >> okay so I think if we've come up with if we've come up with other outcomes that you know, are really at the

279base of some of this, we'll put it down. It just helps us um think of every scenario as we're going through. >> So, now let's just think about um values or commitments that are relevant to this. So, we got continuous learning, right? >> Right. Board members getting the context of the district so they can inform their decision-m. >> What other values or commitments do we want to document in terms of asking having the information requests to staff? Anything else we want to call >> the outcome as an outcome we I mean we really want every >> values you probably can't see it. So I'm on number two now >> I'm on number two. >> Yeah Eddie. >> So one is um democracy so that every board member has I don't know what you want to

280call like equal opportunities. They're getting their answers you know versus like >> I'm I'm thinking worst case scenario. Let's say like we have one board member that just sends hundreds of emails a day and they dominate staff time. that leaves less time for everyone else. >> Okay. >> Equal. >> Again, that's that's like worst case scenario, but it's it's I think it's like a test case >> of like how to balance priorities. >> Transparency. >> How about access as a value? >> Yeah. >> Access. Anything else? Well, well, part of democracy is also like how to prioritize. Like for example, if if there's a big question that's going to take a long time to answer, if it's just coming from one board member or maybe there's three or four board members that may be interested,

281how do we do that? Right. So, >> right. So, is there a balance? >> That may be a constraint, but yeah, >> is maybe a concept of balancing um trying to think of how to phrase that as a commitment or a value. So I hear what you're saying. >> Yeah. So value would be efficiency. >> No, I don't know. >> Efficiency. Okay. Maybe it's a constraint. >> Yeah, that's what I think. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. All right. So, let's think about it as a constraint. So, instead of just staff workload, the constraint would be um balancing. I'm trying to think of what's help me help me folks. >> Well, I think it's part of the workload, >> right? And it's a bit of a almost a solution on the workload if you will to have

282like some sort of mechanism to avoid um big research projects that don't have broad interest. >> No. >> So I don't I'm having a hard time figuring out where >> I'm just going to write that down. >> Broad Yeah. big research project that doesn't have much interest. >> Yeah. But I'm saying it but I translating other people's >> or how to find that there is interest in a broad research project. >> Yeah. >> So the positive side >> is there is there any thought in asking the superintendent about or and maybe I'm just putting it to the group if something takes a day to research versus just oh I've got that like in a database right here. the amount of time that things take to >> I think that will be a step in the

283process. Yeah. >> If it's something that takes like two people, three days versus >> we track that data, >> it'll just it'll go on my to-do list tomorrow. >> Mhm. >> So, the time the time it might take to do to to complete a request. >> Yeah, I think that that will be a helpful step. But before we get to that, any any other values or I mean transparency, access, continuous learning, this I feel pretty confident, but I just want to go around at least get a head nod. Everyone's good. Anything else? Could >> Can I throw out a value that I'm sure you have, but I haven't heard is alignment with district and board goals. >> Oh, >> what do you mean by that? >> Yeah. Can you go deeper, Sandy? So, if you

284get an email, and you know, I'll just use our own personal experiences, the email that has concerns about placement of students in the eighth grade math. And then another board member says sends one that's about the length of time for Halloween parties, which you you've got a board goal around math. >> Yes. >> Right. So, does that do you want that to play a role in this process? >> I'd sure love to look at our list of questions and kind of like crosswalk >> to see >> just for my own learning if they're tied to board goals or not. >> Well, I mean, Halloween party, >> our board goals are also >> support the community and their >> Yeah. >> needs and keep kids in school. So >> I certainly want wouldn't want to design

285a system that like hinges on well does this question is it relevant to like our board goals directly because I just think there's a lot of um items that fall under I'm trying to look back at your other pieces because I think like when we talk about the the what the work um it's not just the board goals there's also like fiduciary responsibility for example >> and so if we don't our board goals are very focused on like academic outcomes and I think that we just need to be open to I I guess I just don't want to put a constraint on what we can ask staff about that it has to be tied to board goals >> and and none of this is saying you can't ask a question. We're trying to figure out

286a process for staff's understanding of um the word prioritization hasn't come up yet, but >> yeah, >> right at no point is less urgent, >> right? Has anybody said you cannot ask this question? >> It's just as >> there's a deluge does do we want the any of these values to play a role? >> Yeah, I guess urgency that could be a criteria in that urgency question. >> Yeah. And I want to I was I was not trying to like constrain anybody, but more like to use the um connection to the board goals as part of an a decision making on on how we how staff responds. Not to say that the qu questions all questions are good questions. Uh and not to not that some questions aren't going to tie directly to board goals

287and those are important questions as well. But when we're weighing two questions that come in, could that be a decision factor in terms of prioritizing a response? It's just kind of an open question. >> So in terms of the number of questions, I hear a lot about that from from you in terms of like volume of questions. I haven't heard anything from staff. So I'm curious like I mean I I see the list of questions. It doesn't look massive to me like and in our tracker and I don't know what other questions are out there that aren't in the tracker. Um, but is it a significant problem the number of questions coming from the board? Is there I don't I don't have this ability what everybody's asking. >> Is it the place to answer now?

288>> Dr. >> Yeah, I So that's tough to answer. I would say in the beginning it was definitely sort of like the wild west. Mhm. >> Um I think it has gotten um tremendously better as folks are CCing Rosanne and knowing that it's going to the tracker. So I think we've had some things that clear up. I think what is more impactful um is not necessarily like the number of questions but sometimes the detail of the question and then also just bringing in positionality, right? like um because everyone in the organization kind of somehow flows up through me through their direct reports. And so when you all are asking a question that has a whole lot of detail, the staff has this like they're compelled to like >> answer as fast as they possibly can

289and make sure they have like all the detail. So many folks just kind of stop whatever was prioritized to get that answer because they don't want it to be a negative reflection on their supervisor because their supervisor ultimately either reports to me or somewhere along that line. So I think it is more of the perceived pressure and I don't know some of the things that were um agreed upon in the past with you know who responds and whatn not but um I think it's mainly that but I mean I will say since our last um retreat you all have been very open when because I I've said to staff a number of times like if it's going to take time just communicate that and folks have been very open to like okay about how long

290or >> or whatever and um and that's been helpful. >> Yeah, >> I I appreciate >> I don't know if that answers your question or if that was too vague. >> No, I I think it does. I I think I was when I I'm hearing like it feels like or like it's a big problem, but I'm hearing there's been a lot of improvement. So, >> yeah. And I maybe let me call Roseanne in who actually receives Rosanne. >> She's right here. >> Yes. So, I do think I'm making sure we're looking at ask any questions. It is reminding me. Um, yeah, I do feel like I appreciate that people have flagged that when something is for a purpose like especially upcoming. I think that's gotten much better. It helps to Dr. Armstrong's point uh staff

291know when to prioritize. Um, it's really helpful if if uh you can say in an email and I think many of you do it for upcoming board meeting or information for an upcoming decision like so the packet goes out on t the Tuesday you have a week for the board meeting that's been helpful. People have flagged that because we know that we need to get your questions ahead of time. I know you said some questions um Stephanie that were um you know we have some time on this and it was appreciative because they were they were >> budget >> we're really more yeah it needs more time to get the information especially I think some things are still in stocks too >> and it sounds like our budgeting software is terrible >> that's true >>

292but it's going to get better >> within five weeks >> is that helpful for you I mean I don't know if that answers >> for me it does it for me it certainly feels feels like there isn't a giant problem that we have to solve for that maybe with some >> I don't know. >> Can I ask another clarifying question? >> If we go to staff with a question and it feels like a problem to them. Are they going to tell us that? >> No, they're not. They're not >> Because of the position >> and because they want to support their boss's boss's boss. Um, and we're in a position of power where we evaluate the response that we get. It reflects directly on the superintendent. So, it's kind of like a it's a you're

293in a bind. The staff is in a bind and they're in no position to push back. >> And I would also say it's >> for six years. >> Yeah. I would say the type of question is what's overwhelming because when it sounds like it's a question that is maybe calling into question somebody's like job or maybe they didn't do their job or like it's into the management thing. I think it just like um can be a little unsettling and then folks kind of spin on that like >> oh my goodness. And it could be simply like, hey, I have a connection here. Let me ask you this question about this thing. And then um it just creates this this dynamic of so am I doing something wrong or >> can I add a little something

294that might help this question? Yeah. >> So is that the amount of pressure that the information requests might cause could be very cyclical depending on what's happening in the rest of the district contextually, right? And how big a request. Maybe there's like the budget is due and so everyone's busy. So it would make sense and if you've taken steps to improve that it would e and flow. Yeah. >> Yes. >> I think that's helpful. I just have gotten better at doing this is to make it easier to you um is to ask for more clarifying information about why the question because sometimes it feels it's pretty broad and it could become a research project but if you're like what exactly are you looking for? That makes it so much easier. So I'm we're trying to

295get better about just probing a little bit. >> I want to have clarity as a value. >> Yes. And and and I'm glad that she said that. So know her intent behind that, not to like question like why are you in our business? What are you looking for? It's more of hey, we want to expedite this. So if we know what it's connected to or what you're getting at or what do you just what can be helpful for you then we could just get to the root of it without >> okay so Virginia does not talk very much. as we work our way through this. Um, I did a really great training when I worked for Coca-Cola, huge company, thousands of employees on how to submit emails for whether it was action, you know, action

296required, informational, for review in all caps. Like we had categories so that if emails came through tagged a certain way, I knew I needed to read it right now, but it couldn't necessarily wait for tomorrow. Um there was a whole key that we had developed or the company had developed that we were required to use and then also when we were you know emailing for information and Kimberly I would really look to you for some direction here you know when I send emails now I send them to you because you manage your staff. The last thing I appreciate is when I've got my team, somebody else, you know, above me emailing somebody, you know, you know, two steps below me because then I don't even know what's on their plate, right? I don't even know

297what they're they're working on versus I try not to send things to your staff because you manage their workload, not me. So, and I got very good about copying Rosanne on everything I send. Um, so is that helpful to you to or is it overwhelming if it's just like, you know, Virginia, Virginia, Virginia? >> No, it's actually been been really helpful and we're also learning. So there's a cadence that some of you have of when you typically ask questions. So we're like, okay, they're in work mode. >> Um, so it I mean it's it's it's just I mean my opinion is that um it we seem to have fallen into a better system than where we were before. And I know this is a couple little things to button up, but um I can see

298progress is being made. >> I I would love to maybe start mapping this out, but >> Michelle and there's >> Give me the marker. >> Thank you. I I love that um what you said about the action for review informationational all caps and that you created a legend. Yep. >> That's everybody understands. >> It's for review, it's action. I that's really just >> organizational development. Um, I also wanted to say as a staff person that works with like there's a governing body above my boss and their boss, when that governing body says I need to know like the data for I don't know how many gas stations are in Portland, you know, selling renewable um, biodeiesel that the work that's in front of me that day gets stopped even though I have deadlines on there

299and it gets reshuffled and just that itself creates a little bit of um inefficiency because I'm trying to work my work plan and not get distracted too often. But when when things come in from on high, everybody's work plan stops and we turn to gathering that data um because we're we're satisfying somebody that's in a position of power just like we are. So >> So Regina and Christina, maybe we'll start going. What do you think? >> Yeah, something else. No, I didn't have anything else. Sorry. >> Oh, okay. Sorry. Thought I saw an end. >> I'm I'm flowchart helper here because I have something. I think this might >> Is everyone ready? >> Oh. >> Um well, I'll just get this part out. But um I think like for the most part, we need to

300have a way to ask questions. We need to understand that they could affect somebody's workflow and that is um a price to pay a bit. Um, so one of the things that I think is something that wouldn't be our responsibility to develop, but like by the fact that we would, you can write down the flowchart. Our process is you email Dr. Armstrong and Roseanne when you have a question and you don't CC whoever you think might be the right person to answer the question because you think that might be helpful. But don't do that. Just email them. And then we know that already those questions end up in the Q&A tracker. So that's part of our system. We've already decided to share an urgency level in our emails. Um, and I love the idea of

301developing a code in the subject line. That would be cool. Um, and then what I think I'm what I want to see happen too to like get back to that workload, and this is like I think a you thing >> is to have like a system that you guys design that we're aware of so that we know that there's a system that's like um kind of how those questions will get approached. So, like just to give an example for fun. Um, I write in and ask a question about um the timeline for the I've been asking about the Jackson sports field. So, we'll just use that as an example. Uh, so I write in and say, "Hey, I've got somebody who's just really wants more information about this. Um, who's the right contact?" Blah blah

302blah blah blah. So, I send the email to you, too. >> And then you guys need to figure out, is this a big question? And I think that it maybe is because even though it sounds like it's not, I think we don't know precisely what's happening with that because the person who is leading it no longer works at the at the at PPS. So like I think what needs to happen is like that okay is this like something we can handle short-term long term and then I think what can happen is like okay this is not a question that's related to an upcoming board decision. We're going to take two weeks to figure this out and get back to you. So, I think like that's the piece that I think would be cool to figure

303out of like um you get an email and what's the triage process? And that way you can decide like listen, no pressure to get this answer to me right away because we know it's complicated because staff just left. So, we're going to tell this board member that you're going to get back to them by Friday, March 16th. I don't know if that's a Friday. um it's not but and then that becomes like a reasonable target for when they'll get back. So I think it's that's the piece that I think is sort of that's how you protect staff is we trust you guys to have a system. Maybe tell us so we know what it is for um making sure staff don't feel that pressure and that we're not disrupting their flow too much and that

304we know when we're going to get the answer so it's not just in an abyss. Um, and I think that might be the piece that also would need to be figured out. Um, is how to like design that flexibility and I don't know. Well, let me can I ask a question to that flow because we have the question and answer tracker >> and so I guess I wonder and I think as things come in it's dated and then staff is you know Roseanne sort of manages that that tracker and tagging the appropriate people. Is that a system um that is working for you all or no? when it's >> I think sorry >> I was gonna say I realize though when I put the question in we have a staff tracker for questions and I

305don't put it the questions with the answer I don't put the questions into the board tracker until it has an answer >> got it I was wondering about that okay >> and I I could change that I just haven't put it in there because I worry that I'm going to have mostly because I don't want to put an answer in the board tracker and leave unanswered I think I'm taking care of it, right? >> So, wait. And really quick, because I'm capturing the flow, would you enter would you ask clarifying questions back to a board member before it gets into the board member tracker? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I wonder if this could solve multiple people asking a question without knowing about it because we're not allowed to communicate. If you added a question,

306>> if you added a question and then say under review or response by March 16th, like then someone sees the question and then we don't have to ask you. >> Yeah. So, I think that's easy. That's like an easy answer. It's like instead of it just being like it's like what's the plan for responding and that way we can give people the time they need to not have it disrupt their flow and feel urgent. It's not coming from us. It's coming from you. you. Um, and then when it is urgent because it's for a board meeting, those things elevate to the top. And when it's like a Jackson Middle School sports field question and it's really complicated because the staff left, we understand, we hear back like this is complicated. It's going to take us

307a bit. We'll get back to you later. Does that seem like it would be helpful? >> Three Rs emerging. >> So, we have receive, >> reviewing, and then responded. >> Yes. >> Oh, good. That's a good mark. >> I know I'm horrible with the letters, but >> yes, >> but we can do that. And then responded meant means that this is the complete answer. Um, so >> and can I ask another question? When it's responded, do you typically share it with the entire board because that was one of the desired outcome. >> It's on the Q&A. >> Yes. >> Which could share with us weekly, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's bookmarked, right? What was that? >> It's bookmarked. >> I don't even know how to do that. >> It's a bookmark. >> Oh, >>

308an Excel thing. >> No, it's it's just a >> we need a >> computer thing. You can bookmark >> realistic expectations. >> There's So, can I ask a favor? Can we I This is really This is great. We're do I need single conversations at a time because it's hard for me to track. >> I don't think any of this needs tracking. It's just >> Okay, so help me >> for for systems >> for this type of communication. Um I'm curious how the group would feel about something like this because this is another thing done at like the larger companies because especially with people working remotely, it's really hard too when you're not all in the same room together. Um I hear you saying they'll get back to us and let us know when they can

309get us the information. Sometimes people like to just know when you'd like the information by and that might make their job easier if you're like, "Hey, I need this by I would prefer to have this by um March 30th or I need this by Friday." And that it's not that you're being demanding. It's just really nice to be able to traffic the work and um and know when you prefer. So let's say I've sent something and I was like, I need it by the 15th. You could come back and say, "You know what, Virginia? It's going to be hard. We've got 12,000 other things in our place. Can we do the 20th?" "Yep, no problem." Or, "No, I really do need it by the 15th." So, that would, you know, okay, >> that responsibility lies

310on us. And I do do that in emails to, you know, my current team due on this date and then we will talk about it if the date needs to be revised. It's just the constant fluidity of, you know, retraicking work if things come up. So, if that would be helpful, um, that's certainly something we can do. these these responsibilities lie to us to let staff know, you know, when we like it by and that's okay to ask and just >> I think the fourth third fourth R of realistic expectations is like >> that's I think what we're going for where like it reminds me of like when I was a teacher I used to have due dates and then I'd say like if that due date is a problem for you let me know

311in advance and you could even set a different due date as long as you don't come to me on the day it's due I will let you set your own due date for that and that was like something that I did as a teacher and I feel like that what you're saying makes total sense to me. So, it's like I might write and say, "I don't really care when I find out about the Jackson Middle School stuff, just when you can get to it." Or, "I need it by next Monday, but oh, we can't figure it out because that staff just slapped like that." As long as we're all comfortable with >> realistic expectations and there's like an understanding of what that expectation is that could be captured in that spreadsheet. You know, >> I'm

312gonna put that as a value. >> Yeah, because I was going to say maybe it's not necessarily a fourth R. Maybe when it's like putting that it's um under review, that's where we're able to put more information on how long it'll take to get back to you or if it's >> I don't know. I feel like we can over complicate >> I think actually because as I'm track you all can't see it as I'm writing it so small but the idea of having an email legend or structure as a tool and that board members would state urgency or or desired by dates the clarifying questions from staff back could be oof do you really mean that because we're not able to do it by by that date so having that feedback loop and then having

313that in the tracker I think actually it's lining up with what you all are saying >> and that takes the work off Rosanne's plate when you just give a date like that versus like well what kind of date like well is it this is it that it present it it eliminates that question for you >> that you're asking seven people >> yeah we have too soon as possible >> in the situation where A parent calls asks about overcrowd a classroom and they've copied staff member who should answer that question. >> But you are doing an amazing job of segueing us into incoming emails. >> Okay. So, but how do we respond? How do we write to that staff member to make sure we get an answer? >> We're we're Hold on. Give us two seconds

314because we're going to move into incoming. So, all right. Go ahead. We're about done. >> Um, one value I would also like to add is just kind of respecting staff time >> in terms of like weekends, >> right? like um like I I know I mentioned this with Virginia offline about you know there's expectations that if you email the weekend the expectations that we don't necessarily expect to reply over the weekend >> because that that you know but at the same time it's tough for I'm sure Dr. Armstrong feels obliged to answer things right away and often works on the weekends to answer emails that come in the weekend. So um I use scheduled send. I don't know if everyone use it, but it'd be nice to have that norm if we all agree to

315it. Uh that if you do send an email over the weekend, the expectation is it's not answered until the work week or do a scheduled send. >> It's your preference. >> Or I got one the other day saying, "I work well on the weekends, but I don't expect you to answer this until it's your com comfort time." I thought that was really helpful. I have heard many superintendents tell me it's really difficult not to respond to board members over the weekends. Many superintendents have just because they they're built for responsiveness. So I the schedule send might be a good idea. >> Schedule send on Monday. >> I I'm definitely like a weekend emailer and I would never expect a response on the weekend. It's only >> Yeah. >> schedule Sunday works. >> Yeah. I mean,

316I've I've had my superintendent call me at 800 PM on a Saturday, and I was like, "No, no, that's not what I meant, but that's what she really was inclined to do. It was hard conversation." Oh, go ahead. >> No, I do want to say, I mean, I love this about email, but I guess I would hope that you all know that if there's anything that's like burning or that's coming up that you all know that you can just call me too, right? Like that it's Yeah. Maybe I was just going to say I wonder if this worry about responding right away on a weekend is going to go away with urgent for review, you know, whatever we're doing and like a timeline like because I I don't know if it's something for a Tuesday

317board meeting and you see it on a Sunday afternoon, you may want to see it on a Sunday afternoon because in those next, you know, 18 hours before Monday morning, you might be able to accomplish something that you don't want to have to first see at 9:00 a.m. Maybe so maybe our new process of putting in there the urgency level and the review date will eliminate some of the feelings like you have to respond right away and simply for the very few that need response right away. You will you will see I don't know like maybe our new process is going to avoid that >> and that's where iteration might come into play trying it and if it's not doing what you need right >> and I think taking staff out >> it alleviates a

318lot of the issues around staff responding on weekends because it's a board member if it's going to Rosanne and Kimberly that removes that worry >> because you know you don't have to respond on the weekend >> I was going to suggest Just for iterating on for if it's urgent, send it on the weekend. If it's anything else, you can schedule send. Maybe that's like a compromise measure. Does that work for you or do you want even when you're done with the email just actually I can I can can I just say one little thing? >> Yeah. >> Patty just asked a great question. What could be so urgent? Well, I mean, I don't think it's uh a secret with all the papers and things that at some point we're going to need to pull you

319all together in an urgent fashion to discuss these furloss and what days that could mean in terms of like um no school, no student day that's going to take a board vote. So, when I think of urgent, I think of like time bound. I think of time bound or I think of something that is potentially at uh crisis level in terms of like safety um >> school splitting do you know? >> Yep. Yep. >> Yep. So so anyway that so I think whatever code that's established if we think of urgency we think of time bound and like safety issue as like immediate that's that's what we would like stop everything. let's respond because this is we have a vote coming up, you know, or something we need to respond to immediately at a school. >>

320Okay. >> So, you would link those two together then because I I was about to see I thought we were going urgent like flooding in a school and then I was thinking we could add you know for vote on Tuesday. I was seeing those as separate. So, you're saying if on Sunday we have a question that's for Tuesday that would be >> I would count that as urgent. >> Okay. So I could have a runway like for instance using the example of furloss I there's a team of folks working through the weekend to be able to have everything we need for Monday and then figuring and that's not even a Tuesday board meeting thing but sometime that week depending on what the where the unions land and so I would think anything related or connected

321to that I would put as urgent because it's >> it's time bound. >> Okay. >> It's happening right now. >> Okay. Sounds like two days because it's a weekend. >> Let's Well, yes, Rosanne. I'm going to try to move on to incoming, but anything Rosanne? >> Well, I was going to say also communication to the board. You know, I tend to put like action items, but if it's really important that like the superintendent send something email to you that's really important or I did in terms of time, I will follow with the text. >> Yeah, you're so good at that. >> I so appreciate it. >> Just tagging things action is huge because then what's once we start using this legend, you guys, you're going to be able to sort your email. >> Yeah. So,

322and just sort by action or sort by urgent and that will help Kimberly's team too. If we're really consistent about it, it's really easy to find your emails. >> Awesome. >> Okay. >> All right. All right. So, let's segue. >> Yeah. So, and we, you know, um this is a flowcharting what to do with incoming in mail is a more complicated topic, but we're going to take a stab at it. We're not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good here. So, let's think of desired outcome. So let's just think a single because there's so many parameters a parent has an information has a wondering about something going on in their school right what are desired outcomes from the board in terms of you know what do you feel your responsibilities are when a

323question like that comes in just desired outcomes >> go around >> excuse me >> oh yes you're using your protocol thank you want to I didn't >> I'm not chairing this meeting board. >> So what our responsibilities are when a parent has a question about >> about their school >> their school. >> Yeah. >> Uh for me I feel my responsibilities are to send it to Rosanne to send to the appropriate person >> and they usually end up sending it to the principal. >> So the desired outcome would be finding the best person to answer the question. >> Yeah. >> Okay. someone feel free to help me facilitate as my box >> and I generally do not respond to the email >> and and we'll get into we're going to get into the nitty-gritty of

324exactly what you're going to do but right now we're just trying to get the big picture parents sent you an email what what's your goal at the >> I think one of my desires >> yeah and I guess my goal is for them to get a answer >> yeah perfect yeah I think yeah like in a in my world in my perfect world people who write us would get an answer. That's one thing. So that's a desired outcome. Um and then I also think like generally speaking um the I want this sentiment to be broader than that that people feel heard. >> I'm going to add that as a value. >> Sure. But yeah. Yeah. It's also a desired outcome. I just must put out there that I have absolutely stopped replying to emails and

325I hate it and it stresses me out. It makes me feel awful. I can't figure out how to stay on top of it. So, a desired outcome for this process to me is like um having a world where all seven of us don't feel like all seven of us need to reply to every email. Like >> if there's a way where we can get everybody replied to where one of us replies to that person and six of us don't, they still got an email response. >> So maybe alignment amongst the board. >> Yeah. or something where like we could be like reducing our email workload somehow so that we don't all feel flaky. Like I feel super flaky, but I've also just it's like I can't write back to 30 emails a day, so I'm

326just not writing back to anyone. And I'm worried that a lot of us are I know some people are writing back to almost all of them, which is great, but maybe then that's just the answer. Virginia replies to every email. >> No, I I was sitting here thinking like, oh god, I've been so bad for the last few weeks. I've been so busy. Yeah. >> So, I'm going to capture that as optimize the board board's work. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> All right. Moving along to Virginia. What do you think? >> I think uh I share that like, you know, a time a timely response even if it's we've received your email. And again, like I've not been very good about this for the last few weeks. It's been a little crazy. Um but yeah,

327I would say a time a timely response even if it's >> we don't have the information you need and it is it's like how do we >> I mean yeah how do you do that so it's not and it's honestly it's okay if like you know each of us is responding to a person like I think that that's okay. I struggle with, you know, I was trying to do some reply all initially and then I kind of struggle with that because I know you we have differing opinions. >> So I feel like if we hit reply all and one person is giving an answer, it sounds like it represents all of us when it may not. >> So I'm curious how you guys on your board manage that. >> We've seen some different practices. We

328can talk about that. Yeah. What do you what do you think Eddie? What you desire? Um I think the desired outcome is both efficiency and effectiveness >> and also um democracy u because you know like we don't we're unpaid volunteers. I want to step in but we don't have staff. >> Right. And it's it's not feasible for us to answer every email, nor should we because, you know, some emails are just like, "Hey, can we change our school mascot to a farting rooster, right?" That's a very different email than like uh someone saying, "Hey, my kids ceiling tiles are falling down." A safety concern, right? And and or are the emails on policy? Are we debating a policy and someone's giving input like helping with mitigating some of the impact, right? Those are all very

329different. So I think I think the desired outcome I'm thinking of is more of a tiered response, right? What are some things that do require response or or what are things that are just like hey thank you for your input is part of our consideration. um or you know and also on the same thing with um board output that you know reply like for example if you are just replying as an individual board member I think it needs to be clear that you are just replying as an individual board member. >> Absolutely >> right because otherwise it could cause other issues down the line if that isn't clear um and um you know I that's kind of all I got right now. No, but you know actually you got me thinking that there are probably

330some tiered standard response like simple rec acknowledgement of receipt. Um thank you for your input. You don't maybe there's some people that it's not fruitful to engage with. Um and it's just a simple input and that's not a forward responsibility. Let me introduce you to Dr. Armstrong. That might be three simple >> and that's actually like majority of emails. >> Yeah. Thank you for that. But to everybody that >> well because and I don't think the expectation is you know because if you get hundreds of email especially when contentious things are happening I mean >> not everybody knows but you know enough people know that we don't have staff we get hundreds of emails a day on some issues >> and it's just it would take all day to reply to all of them. >>

331Can I ask you a question? How often just guesstimate do you get individual emails to yourselves versus everyone's getting the same email? >> Majority is everyone. Majority is everyone that's helpful or they reach out people individually. >> Did do you check in to see if you are receiving the same >> because our >> our community's gotten really good at sending an email that says director Cass blah blah blah and then another email that's director Sandy and it looks like it's just me and it turns out they sent the exact same email. Do you check in with each other to make sure? >> Not really. >> Okay. But >> um I would say for desired outcomes actually really important for people to be heard. Um also um I've noticed just in the last few years people

332copy the the the board because I think that we have a lot of decision-m on staff things for instance which we don't um and it's not really our role. So, um I I don't know. I've thought about I'm going to go to a little bit problem solving where I've thought about doing an auto replay that says if this is staff related, check here. If this is operations, you know, it goes to the superintendent. Is it if it's a parent concern, you know, the the role the the the order of operations is talk to your teacher, then the principal, >> and then there's a person above the principal. So, um anyway, I feel like it's important for people to be heard. I'm also not really good at um responding to every single email. Um the ones

333I do respond to, sometimes I'll just say this has been received. Um other times I'll forward to um Roseanne and you know and let the person know like this has been forwarded. Um but I've also thought many times about how uh cool it would be to have some one person that just answered parent concerns. Just parent concerns. >> I actually was sitting there thinking I think pretty I'm sorry. No, >> but anyway, so I mean people, >> we're all wanting to solve a problem. >> We're going to get there, but we >> let me let me insert a constraint of who replies even if like >> and I don't reply all when I reply because I just plugging >> Amy and I are dying to flowchart here. Edward, we really need to hear from Michelle

334and Stephanie and then we're going to start problem solving cuz I think we can't stand it anymore. >> Yeah, would love to hear from >> doctors Dr. A would like to get in the queue. >> Okay. >> All right. Excellent. I love it. >> Um I think for me the desired outcome is also for people to feel heard. Um, I recently added to my email signature, um, your email has been received and is getting my full attention even though I may not be able to respond to you, >> which I don't know like how that feels for people, but I hope it feels like even though I don't get a response, um, I can hopefully trust that I've been heard. >> That's great. >> Thank you. >> Um, bounce back. >> Um, it's just in

335my um or >> Oh I didn't think through that step of it. No, it's not a bounce back. So, it's just it So, like it's in your sign. I think it's in your signature. >> It's in my signature. So, if they've gotten an email from me, they know that. But if they just send me an email, they don't get that. >> Unless you reply, but then it makes it easy to reply. >> That's true. That's true. >> You can just reply with your signature. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, >> and yeah. Yeah. What else, Michelle? >> Um Um Um I think I reply when um I mean I know that we all represent the the whole district, but I I'm more likely to reply when it's someone from my zone. Um because I come from that

336zone and I know that community and um if there's anybody that they should be able to expect a response from um I feel like it's me. Um, I'm going to put that as a value, being responsive to your neighbors. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Um, and I don't reply to everything, but I reply when it feels like somebody really needs to be heard, even if it's just to say, I can tell you need to be heard on this and I hear you and I might not have an answer, but like, >> Thank you for engaging and I'll let you know when I can find out. >> Appreciate that. All right, Stephanie. >> I would love to hear from Rosanne because she often has like really good input and so there was something over here that you

337thought >> Well, there was something kind of thinking about what uh Michelle said and I think could be a helpful way. This a suggestion is on the schoolboard account which I'm copy which I manage the account but it goes to all of you and I think that's where it sounds the majority of your emails are now coming in. Um you know there could be an auto reply that says um your school you know, something that acknowledges the email they received. Uh, thanks the public for like hearing from our consumer, which is very important for our understanding of how we do our work and everything else. You could say the the board office has copied on this and can help forward concerns on. And then something in there that could say um acknowledge that you will

338respond to emails as you can individually. So maybe it's just sort of a it's an auto like we'll get it. I'm still looking because often when Patty say forwards mean you're always good about forwarding an email I've already forwarded it because I'm sort of tracking doing that. >> Um and I know that sometimes if I try to if it's something that seems concerning especially an issue around you student or something that someone's written to the board I will forward you email my personal email that gives you an update right that says by the way I reached out to the school the school principal is meeting with this person. So, but that auto would maybe take that burden off of you and let people understand that there is somebody internally that can track things. Does that

339make sense? >> And I'm happy to craft the response. >> Yeah. >> I'm just You're okay with that kind of >> some emails I don't want to respond. would be like >> but just a few >> it should be like part of the application almost the auto response. >> It's like every single email that goes to that board address would get a response of like >> all of the board is getting this. They're all going to see and evaluate your email. You may hear back from them, you may not. >> And then if it's something specific >> to pass on to district staff, board staff are getting these emails and taking care of that. >> I love that. >> Something like that. Yeah. Is that a good recap? >> Love it. That >> All right.

340I think that sounds like a good idea. >> Additional communication during >> crisis week and and I I want to make sure we leave time for Stephanie and >> I appreciate that because it cuts down what I was going to say because then if there's something that's coming to just me >> then the decision on whether to respond is much more narrow. Like maybe the person is sending it to each person individually and you think it's just coming to just me. But oftentimes it's not. It's coming just to me. And so then I'm not worried about all the schoolboard ones that are coming in because there's an automatic bounceback that's >> saying what what I would probably be saying anyway. And now if something is just coming, hey Stephanie, >> we're parents at Sunnyside. It's

341in my zone, right? Like >> we met you last week. I ran into you in the grocery store. Blah blah blah. then I have more time that I can dedicate to the ones that are specific to me rather than and it hopefully isn't much more work on your part because it's a bounce back and if someone feels heard and >> and um I'm jumping to problem I apologize jumping to problem solving but so practice that we have is that if we get an individual email we double check with our version of Rosanne to see if everyone else has gotten it >> because sometimes people will copy and paste to individual accounts >> so That might be a simple tool as well just to double check whether or not it's individual or group. >> Just as

342a suggestion. >> It really cuts down on the workload. >> It does. >> Yeah, that's good. >> And nothing makes me happier than hearing back. Oh, it went to everyone. >> Can I get in the queue up for Dr. Armstrong? >> Yeah. >> So, two things I wanted to share. Um the first is that I think Eddie maybe about 20 minutes back I heard you say like we don't have staff and I just wanted to you know just say and I know maybe this is something that like every time there's a board man or new team that comes in we talk about the support from the board office because Roseanne's position is designed to be a support of you. So everything that's in her job description is all about you all. So, if there are

343ways that um you all are thinking you could use some support on something or maybe um whatever it may be like it though she doesn't report to you all that's her entire job um is to support what you all need. Um and so I just wanted to raise that because I don't I don't know if we've talked about that enough. I think you all know that she's there and she's helpful, but but that there we can rethink and imagine um different support for you all through Roseanne if it's if it's helpful or if there's something that may be coming up or um that where you feel like maybe you're a little overwhelmed with this and could use some some support from her. The second thing as I'll say is a little bit uncomfortable, but I'm

344going to say it anyway. I think what I need in the for the incoming emails is for them to continue to be um professional and responsive because what I've been hearing through the network is that sometimes these emails, these incoming emails turn into phone conversations in meetups. And over the last couple of months, I've heard that there's been a handful of people that have continued to engage with staff about decisions that they weren't in support of or um staff or schools or whatever that they're not uh in support of and it really makes it um >> a difficult situation to be in. So, >> this is coming from public team health >> um from staff >> that know of because as you all know in a public school district there's always the oh well this

345is between us but so and so had a conversation with this board member and they're really tight and she said this this and this or he said this this and this and so it just becomes this this thing like I I've been >> you know kind of working with the team to kind of figure out you know just how we move the decorum, right, where that's not always popular, but just know that there is there is some of that going on >> and it erodess trust and it can be undermining. And so I think just what I need is just that professional respect to follow the process and allow management issues to stay with management. >> I I appreciate that. >> Thank you. You're talking about um like further communication with someone within PPS, not

346like >> a PTA parent. >> No, no, no. It's PPS staff. >> Not not board members or is this from >> board members and PPS staff? >> PPS. >> Yeah, >> I think I get what you're saying. >> Um >> I said I think I get what she's saying. >> Yeah, I do now. >> I um just on that note and then I'll move on to the other thought that I had. Um, I think it's like very possible to be like, I didn't agree with that decision, but like we're moving on, you know? So that way you still have a place where you can say you're you don't have to pretend like now you're gung-ho, but you can just not focus on it. Um, but >> I'm wondering if there's a in the flowchart when

347you do respond that in addition to Roseanne, your CC Kimberly on them. It's a way of her knowing when you're responding to incoming emails that you include Dr. Armstrong on your response >> so she knows what's going on. >> It helps raise awareness that there's a conversation that something has arisen. Yeah, >> it's really it is really best practice. I >> It is. >> You want Okay. You want us to CC her on all of our responses to the public? >> Yes, 100%. >> Do you want that? I mean, >> it could be helpful to know what's on where there's some smoke because sometimes that smoke turns into fires or what's coming up in community. I think it it gives us a window and insight. I just wish we could like not I wish there

348was like a way to email like shadow you like or KK Armstrong too so you could go and check that later. I don't know. >> You could read that if you're up at night, you could just go to camps or two. >> But unless unless to the point of if it's something that is re like, "Wow, so and so have received like 12 emails on this particular issue and it hasn't made it to us yet because you guys are going to hear things. >> It's going to happen. You guys are going to hear things before me or staff know about it." >> Um, >> and so in those times it's really helpful. >> I'm going to do a real quick time check. We have five minutes left. Do people have the avail the availability to

349go a little over? This is a really valuable conversation, but I want to I want to honor your time as well. >> I mean, a little, but I don't >> very flexible today. >> Yeah. >> Okay. No, that's that's why I'm checking this. That's why >> um I just wanted the thing I wanted to put out there was like a lot of the emails I'm getting right now are there's kind of like similar themes and one of these themes hit really hard last year too which is lens. Um, but one thing that I wanted to say is like I wonder if we could develop like a and this wouldn't be to develop in the next 15 minutes, but like a shared approach on like my school doesn't deserve this treatment um in this cuts environment.

350I feel like it would be great if with one voice we almost had a statement that was like we're not like every school is going to experience cuts that feel terrible. I mean, we could think of a better way to put this. >> Um, here's what we know about blends. Like I wonder if it might be worth just having like um if we felt comfortable having like a uniform approach on those types of emails because to me what I want to say to them is like hey like we're not going to I'm not I'm not going to get in the business of advocating for one school over another because if we protect let's say access >> from having blends that change is going to trickle down and affect some other school in some detrimental way.

351So, I've been since we're gonna get even more of these emails as time goes on. Um, of one school asking and they've mostly been writing me like I've been hearing from Ricky. I think Access maybe has been writing, but Ricky wrote a lot to just me lately like Target and just me. Ridom has been writing just me about something. I can't remember now. But um my temptation if I was writing back to emails would just to be like I'm not planning on in any way prioritizing one school over another in this conversation and I just thought that might be like a helpful position for us to share as a board and almost have like a common reply that we use. Can I write down that as a desired outcome of having templates for hot topics?

352Because I will tell you, having gone through the big cuts, you will get specifically lobbyed and the first time something bends based on that lobby, everyone will know and you'll be influenced. >> Yeah. And with the MLC thing that we just went through, >> we just set a precedent, which I am fine. We we talked about this a little bit. I think we've made the right decision in doing that because whatever. But now it just got demonstrated that if you advocate enough we'll bend and I'm and I think that was maybe one of the harder things about making that decision for you probably. Um and so cuz we know we're going to be facing closure. So I think where we have these hot topics that where we do have agreement like I saw lots of

353heads I think we should try to like have just like a unified statement. >> Yeah. put that down as a desire >> if we can and like on consolidation it might be like we're not going to be we're not interested in picking favorites you know >> can build talking points for you all that's how that's when I say like you do have someone that is available to support >> yeah Michelle >> I wanted to um respond to your comment about you've got staff that are like still meeting with people and I think we should um require people to use a shared calendar we already have a calendar that we all use so you know who's going and having coffee or whatever. Um and then the talking points thing, I've actually had the job where I

354had to um create templates for responses because we would get 400 emails and so um drafting a common response that we can all agree on. For instance, you know, we're not going to advocate for our favorite ch child um when we're getting lobbyed because it it is going to happen and it's going to be intense. and we have just made a decision where we heard from some vocal parents, we changed our minds and so I think it'll be really important to stand strong. Um, this is a burden that needs to be shared by the whole community, not just by the wealthier communities that that have the advocacy and the voices um who are also in the minority in in a lot of cases. So, I I love the idea of of if if we can

355agree to have a a template >> and to that effect, I think it's a great idea, Christie. It's also maybe a unifying right >> the community needs to see us as a board not as a collective of individuals I think. >> Yes. >> I think that might help with that a little bit too. >> I think there's also a corresponding piece as to like how we show up in community outside of the written email as far as those things go. Like during the MLC thing despite what I was grappling over internally um and and talking with Dr. Armstrong about my my public face was like we have to cut this much money from the budget and like this is just where we're at because I think the moment that like it seems like one of

356us is leaning in a different direction that's that's the person that can be targeted and seen as um in influencable. >> So so something that was really helpful for us is acknowledging everyone's emotions again, right? no matter who you meet, the grief that they have and again saying, you know, Sandy Board did it really well when we were going through this. This is a this is a long list of really horrible things that we don't wish we had to make decision, but our the board's primary responsiary responsibilities, the long-term financial health of the district, >> right? So, unfortunately, there are cuts that have to be made. We're taking all the input, but just so you know, we we acknowledge we acknowledge it, but we are going to have to move forward with some cuts. It

357just it was helpful for us. >> Um it's 2:31. >> Yeah. And and you've gotten a lot of work done. I know there's and there and we just keep opening up a new can of works here and so there's more to come. But we did some good work on outgoing email information requests. I feel like we've got a really good plan for that. And you actually did come to some really good agreements for incoming email that uh if it goes to the board email, Rosanne's going to do a got it. get it to where it needs to go. Um, and then I heard some conversations around creating a template because yeah, you got you're there. You think your inboxes are full now, I promise you there about and if you can have a consistent response,

358you can still personalize it. There's no reason that you can't say, you know, it was great seeing you on the soccer field yesterday and D and having a a common response. It will save you so much in the long run. >> Sandy, I know we're out of time, but I think Relle, I I don't want her to feel unresolved because I think she was just at about to finish her her thought. So, I just wanted to see if we can at least invite her back in to conclude and then go. We had a lot of Michelle parking lot. She has great words of wisdom. >> She does. >> You just looked unresolved over there, so I felt like you maybe wanted to finish something you were saying. Um I mean I think I was close

359just in that um we have to move as a board and so does whatever conversations we're having in the background um our our public face should be one that is like united with each other and that doesn't have to me like and I I think that looks like what you said like it's not about what our personal opinion is about what school we're closing or blends But like this is where we're at from a budget perspective. This is our fiduciary duty. Da da da and leave it at that. >> Can can I throw out a best practice? Hopefully this is talk about a stink bomb from a facilitator. There is a best practice either topically or overall for boards to designate a board spokesperson. So when emails come to the entire board having a single

360point person that copies the rest of the board gets to see what that response was and takes part in formulating the response like from it's basically a template but just a single person responding it um as you get ready to ramp up here with with community engagement. It can help operationalize some of this efficiency. Um there's lots of ways that could work. It does tend to fall fall on the board chair sometimes but it doesn't have to. It doesn't have to. So, just we just wanted to make sure we put that out there >> um for something for you to consider. Not every board does it, though. >> I would I would also plant the seed that just like your Q&A spreadsheet, the a spreadsheet gets created to track >> to track so that you

361can go, "Oh, yeah. They got an email from >> Miss Smith as well. Excellent. It's been responded to I don't have to deal with that." Right. That way you know and then you know what other board took cuz there was I think it was Virginia mentioned I don't I may not be in agreement I don't know what other people are saying then you can see oh Virginia responded on my behalf spot on it was exactly what I would have said or you know reach out to Virginia hey I'm not in agreement with that please don't respond to board emails you know >> yeah I know occasionally well Michelle at First, you had some really neat responses sometimes your emails and you shared it to I think the whole board. At least I got it and

362I really appreciated it and I just shared one I got from a parent that was comparing two schools because I'd asked for that and so I did you >> I guess it's okay if we get something we think would be good sharing just send the whole thing. >> I I share everything. >> Okay. um either I check my first resp is did this go to me or everyone. That's my very first response and if it went to everyone then I know it's been shared. If it went to just me um I respond and then I CCR our Rosanne and I say on behalf of the board and I've told her that's the key words for >> board president. >> Okay. >> This gets shared for the board. >> Yeah. >> And the superintendent's copied as

363well >> and the Yeah. super so that they they know what I'm up to and what I'm saying. >> Yeah. Eddie, please start. >> One of my concerns is, you know, this skirts a little bit the legal issues around serial meeting law. So, one idea I had was that if we want to do like a uniform reply email, especially if it's about one issue that if anybody wants to write it, they could bring it to the board meeting and during our other business part propose that we can approve it as a board. >> Love I don't know if that would be awkward or not, but it would or um you you can share it of course beforehand. We just can't reply. Um >> you know, and that's something your superintendent and and team can help

364you coordinate to to get around the serial meeting laws. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Well, that bill passed. We should request for an agenda item to have our council brief us on the impacts of that bill and when they take effect. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So that way we know it's much more open on like us sharing information related to a decision. Like to me the way that I read it is like it's like we can share information relating to develop to a decision but we can't um deliberate. >> So it can't be like hey Virginia what do you think about this policy but it could be like hey it could be like back and forth of public email responses that you know are just providing information. No problem. >> Do we want to check

365that? >> Yeah, I think I would wait to see what your legal team say. >> Yeah, I'm saying I think it'd be good for us to hear. Yeah, I've been I've been tracking the bill and I think it it's like no deliberation. Yes. Sharing of information is okay without violating >> and the another and I know you need to go. So, I'm going to pass this to Addie is um Amy when she was president during budget cuts did an open letter to the community >> on budget cuts that then as individual board members we could cut and paste this >> and we developed it together in a work session. We just talked about again about the values what what would we want the community to know? >> Yeah. >> Um and so we developed it

366together and then I words smiththed it and everyone had a copy that they could use >> and it went on our website and then >> Yeah. And then everybody gets seven emails the same thing, >> which also is a little off. >> Okay. >> No, because in Yeah. Wait, >> in the in the auto reply, you could have those that block of information again that everyone helped develop together. >> Yeah, >> we could get you a copy of that. Actually, >> I love that it might be good to be proactive um as we have really serious >> um discussions coming up to >> put in put in the newspaper as well. >> A letter to our community. We are in this together. We can solve it together. We have amazing people here. We have a

367something to protect, >> you know, and I'll give you a little prompt as we were processing this and again it's really emotional as a board. So, it's just I want to honor that this is hard work. we were getting a little stuck and then SD's like well in Northshore this is what we do. So then we started riffing on, okay, what do we believe here in our community? You know, we support our students, we support our teachers, but and it just flowed. >> Yeah. >> Right. And so if you want to just start riffing, okay, what do we believe? >> Um and it will it will come together. >> Love that. >> Yeah. >> Thank you all so much. >> Yes, you are amazing people to work with. >> Thank you so much for everything

368you're doing. >> Thank you. >> Lovely. And so we will write this up and you'll be able to to go from there and any feedback you have we really appreciate. So thank you