001here um we're going to call the policy committee meeting to order uh start with introductions Terry do you wantan to uh Terry Proctor Communications Department Phil senior director for high school academics and Chris Bri is our director for CP very Kane senior legal councel Li large contracted senior legal advisor J board member Michelle de pass board member board manager Rog assistant have anybody no okay um do have anybody signed up for comment no great um perhaps um as a courtesy to our two guests although we'd love for you to stay for the whole meeting are you here for the a we are um should we do that first so yeah that be nice is that okay with the rest of the commit I got a meeting across the hall with the CT student council so
002I'm playing okay well then this perfect um so um just to set things up uh direct suan had um raised an issue issue a student had raised an issue with uh director San and the rest of the board about um access to AP classes and um there was some good discussions about that instead of moving a policy um here to hear more about what those discussions um led to and so I'm going to pass it to dror Sullivan to whatever frame up you want to provide okay yes there's one student that come to a board meeting and then he contacted probably the whole board but I responded to him on email and um he was just really persistent the um reasoning the reason was he's a freshman and on our website it said freshman could
003take a classes unless the class was F but he was not allowed to take a class so he wanted to be sure that the policy was changed um maybe not change the way he wants it but that would be uh transparent and people would know what to do about a class at all the high schools at least that it would be stated how they would be admitted or not to make so I took that to uh the superintendent and then she called um uh meeting with James and his father and we discussed um looking into it and coming up with policy also talking about leaving out a policy with administrative director direct so that's where it sits and you have been working on thank you director San director Edwards thank you for the opportunity uh
004you may recall it uh in the fall shortly after the student um made the initial complain we provided a board memo suggesting that we should conduct a comprehensive review of our AP programming in the school district and so we're happy to um be here today to share a little bit of our our findings and some next steps um please to introduce Chris Brier director of CT AP and IB who talking thanks um so I think everyone uh sort of outlines the work that we started and we'll sort of continue to do over the course of this year and then I'll sort of frame what's what's coming so um first page of the memo sort of paints a picture of what the AP uh sort of like the overview of AP in our district um so
005it looks at how many AP subjects we offer by school it looks at uh last year's AP participation and performance so an increase in the total number of students taking increase in the total number of exams relatively High exam score average across the district 3.2 three is an important threshold of the AP that usually is often what gets students access college credit and then uh increase of about 17% of students earning three or higher from previous year similarly at the bottom of that first page you can see AP participation by grade level so the number of nth grade students who tested 10 gr students tested so on and so forth you can see the number of students number of total exams that group of students took the average scores on those exams and then the
006percentage of students who scored 3 plus uh if you turn to the second page uh begin to break down participation in performance by racial group so you can see the number of students that St an AP exams by graphic the number of exams that students took so you know most students take multiple AP exams that the average is there that and then how many of those students scored three plus and so you can see that there is a sort of obvious racial disparity that still exists when looking at that similarly uh if you look at just historic Man versus not historic man students how many students enroll in exams and how many students took those exams and so that uh Second table there shows that there are let's say 4,31 nonn students enrolled in an
007AB class and how that translates to how many of them took the actual ex and so there is a bigger gap for the number of historically underserved students enrolled and the number of students Ines so while overall sort of picture in the district is strong there is of course disparity across both participation and success rates um that is that is sort of persistent pervasive across R so what that sort of led to is then beginning to do a review of all of the AP courses to determine where there is alignment across the system where there is misalignment across the system and so on that third page you can sort of see the beginning of the findings of that and so I categorized each subject into three sort of uh types either High alignment meaning that
008most of the district operates the exact same way students can access courses at the same grade level it's offered for the same type of credit core versus selective and the prerequisites are generated so an example of that AP English Literature and composition shows that for the most part it's 11th and 12th grade across system it's offered as Court credit for students all except the high schools and prerequisites of English at the second one that's an example where the alignment is I would say moderate so in this case AP Calculus a the grade level varies and whether it's offered as core versus selective also varies but for the most part the prerequisites remain the same so that's sort of how I categorize that mod and then on the next page is an example of a place
009where line is pretty far so uh this is AP Physics which you can see is offered a wide range of gr levels offer for various types of credits across the whole system and the prerequisite list is very different for each of the high schools some say Algebra 1 2 some say algebra 34 some say co-enrollment in algebra 34 so this is an example where they're sort of relatively low and so our sort of next step is to begin uh well we started at sort of central office level with engaging some stakeholders which are senior directors of content and then also senior schools to begin looking at both access alignment and Student Success for our a programs and so um what we've essentially developed is a set of guiding questions to move this work forward and
010those there sort of five highle questions which are what does Equitable access to AP look like in our district how should AP courses be aligned across schools what barriers currently exist that limit student participation AP what systems and supports do we need to improve AP success and then what is our District's vision for AP with broader Advanced course for plans and then sort of overlaid on top of that is a stakeholder engagement plan about who to engage in each of those questions so the sort of approach that I'm taking to this is basically mixed methods research stud so the qualitative part of it is this sort of um Rich interview or focus group piece that will sort of help paint the picture and then overlay that on the quantitative aspect of it which is what
011the data actually say so that's the that's sort of the plan moving forward for how to begin to look at how to better align our system to ensure that students both have access to and succeed in advanced course workk know the initial question is about nth grade but really it sort of like prompted the meing to you mind B the just to get really concrete about what come out this so as we sort of discussed some of the potential outcomes could be an administrative directive talked about it will lead to hopefully updating the district course guide that it's more uniform across the system so that prerequisites are consistent whether a course is offered as Core Credit or elective credit is consistent and then the development of Family Outreach communication plan which will sort of help
012sure the families are well informed about AP opportunities what the expectations are and then how to sort of strengthen the potential supports that we put around AP to make sure that students have access to things that will help those AR that's not an exhaustive list at least um yeah you think this will be finished the goal is to finish this by the end of this Academic Year okay um you know fortunately I'm in the sort of like research mode as part of my doctorate work so this is just feels like a side project of what I'm already yeah the goal is to sort of engage all these stakeholder groups by the end of this critical moment of course is when students begin looking at course offerings and in their school course guides um that typically
013happens in November December January um and we want to make sure that the changes are finalized the school year so that school leaders and teachers have a chance to process in early fall the adjustments can made in um course guides forecasting sheets U so that as mentioned really we're looking for increase transparency increase uh access and alignment and more Equitable outcomes great and and I think to make sure oh sure part of it make sure that students and parents know where to look yes as I think when I tried to and and you can hopefully some of the concerns raised by the student and the family you can see Echoes of those being addressed in the family communication alignment uh clarifying what's core what's selected what's offered at what grade level consistency across buildings and
014programs so all that will be captured this work and we're also centering a another large U issue that we're trying to address which is inequitable outcomes and we need to make sure that these are spaces and programs where historic our students are also experiencing success because we know that col's level course work High School level or successful completion are college level coursework at high school level is is a strong predictor of postsecondary success so that will take more than just updating the course it will it will take some alignment in terms of professional development and other forms of support I'm um really excited to hear more about this um it's a world that I don't know and I was really surprised to see the um the schools that are on the list that have advanced
015placement um I I also love mixed methods um research I just think it's so I mean you get the qualitative and the quantitative together the storytelling and the data to back it up and it's fabulous um I also just returned um this week from a training I took over the weekend um at Howard University U sponsored by the national school boards Association and a placement was on the it's a it was a policy development course so it's a was the part one of a three-part series of courses that it's was looking at um student outcomes first and AP classes and where they are their locations that we've already seen in the tables that you show the racial disparity um and the policy piece is that as a board we have the we we can we
016have a role to play in the policy about where this shows at and who gets tested who gets access so but we don't have to do that right now because already kind of work that's on the table um but I I also want to share that um I think all of the participants that all of the instructors one of the instructors who's the Executive Director of National School Board Association said she's from a district um not a school district and a community that's just about 100% African-American and high income and their board is 100% black and they still have four outcomes so she was like don't feel bad everybody's on a journey um but but she did mention they did mention that this was one advanced placement tag special education are places where the board
017actually has a say in a role in you know helping create those outcomes um so I I don't have any questions about this but except for the main is the goal you had multiple goals is one of the goals to write size to identify kids or provide access did I hear you say to provide access for historically underserved because that's the group I I like to focus on just that's my own personal thing um and and we're not in another policy decision they're not calling them marginalized or underserved they're like bottom third because it's not it's not just race based it can also like correlates from poverty um I think putting on my research and I want to jump to saying what the potential outcomes could be without having all the information but okay yeah
018the sort of goal or Focus or intention is about how are we ensuring that have e access to these programs they're available and then how do we ensure that once we have that access right are you looking then at the ecosystem so there's something systemic might need to change is so you're looking you're Gathering the data first and then kind of that's right yeah really a market characterization on landcap yeah exactly you think that the way that sort of AP has been governed so far as all Liv School schools decide J coures that are offered schools decide how those show up course guide Etc so we are really starting to examine what our role is uh down of teaching aport of under in like thinking about this excellent I really appreciate you bringing the issue
019of policy and what is the right level is it a school policy level or is it a district policy and and we do have some speaking of the ecosystem we do have places in our ecosystem that are really leading the charge um every sophomore at one of our high schools takes an AP course as part of their social studies cours yes it is part of the core it is not something that students have to choose as an elective it is integrated as core social studies uh course we also have another high school where every sophomore takes a AP the English class right and so we'll be looking to some examples within our ecosystem for how schools have created a system where these are not exclusive spaces these are spaces that that all students are prepared
020for and what are the supports they' put in place to make sure the students are successful um so there are some and and as um uh director Bria uh shared earlier the numbers are positive we have more students taking AP exams than you know last year more than the year before for we're offering more AP courses I mean it's really exciting to see our students enthusiasm um and commitment and so we want to harness that energy and think about what additional opportunities are there to increase access as I mention how are the teachers teaching the AP courses to average ceiling in those and I'm going to um if you could because that seems like it's opening a big topic so U Maybe a short answer because um I'll have a couple questions and then we're
021to the next topic but go ahead and yeah and maybe we can just commit to reporting back on that and providing some more information yeah as the res that' be great yeah um so a couple things I had is I think an ADV directive is a good place for a lot of the details there might be room space for policy that would have the overarching principle about equal access those things of things so I think we should think about like not directing that L graders in the policy would be able to have access but more like here's what the overarching principles might be about our um coursework so just something it would be establishing a vision might exist or it might be into the student achievement so I think it could be like we add
022something to that and then the administrative directive is that so just something to think about what the board's role of like setting the the guard rails the parameters or the aspiration the vision yeah um and then just a couple things uh so in 20 12 I think when Shay James was the high school um director here um there was a initiative with a lot of high school parents that WR called um D plus CC which was diploma plus College of career which is when the career coordinators came in and the career course came into the high schools um but it also was looking at across the board equity in um college prep classes um so rather than AP um I'm wondering about and for answer but like um it seems that if this is a
023district initiative that we should have IB and dual credit included as well because obviously not all of the high schools um seems like we should include the other high schools and they have they're a little bit different I mean the questions will be different because I mean you can't take as a freshman anyway um but I think the same sort of questions um because I also think there's one in IV and that I know Cleveland at least in 2017 18 was doing IB for all like every student took IB English so it wasn't like they took Junior English they took IB English and so like that's a way to like not force participation but like everybody participates Choice architect that's still happening both Cleveland great and they also IB math um biology I think is
024classic Cleveland and was theing that um so I think that' be worthwhile to look at those and then the models of how you get greater participation because if it's if it's not just you're scheduled into that versus you have to opt into it you get different participation rates um I think you bring up a good point too about that I mean there are different fundamental right so like point nth grade students can't take IB 10th grade students can take first year and twoyear IB class they can't begin testing until 11th grade so that is you know there's and all schs can take theory of knowledge I mean so it seems like and I know if we just did AP IB people would be like je on here so yeah I just think um all and
025all the high school and then um the last thing I guess I would say is um on the AP subjects offer schools the one thing that I was curious about is just like what the participation was by school um so in the 2010s um Franklin had still exists Advanced Scholars which is um you had hundreds of students and very diverse students um committing to take three AP courses and they were then Advanced Scholars and they got a cord um and you just saw like it used to be I be Wells was the big AP Powerhouse um in the early 2000s and then Franklin overtook it because of the getting so many more kids to participate in it um so it would be I think looking at different ways that increase participation um in addition to
026the for catalog um I'd love to have to see that as as part of it because it answers some I think we do have some places already in the district where by school you'll see different different initiated levels of participation and disaggregated so yeah ex right represents theing structures School culture like how that all sort of contributes to to a sort of the parent you you mentioned um doing some type of like Community engagement and parent engagement would be maybe even earlier than nth grade sure I don't know how early this starts but to get families at least knowing great um awesome so did you take away from that some next steps that some yeah I think there there's certainly some questions that we can bring back I know that one of the things I'm
027happy to find or send is the number of students parting sources but also happy to share sort of The Guiding question engagement to great um and I gu say to direct she brought this issue thank you for phasing it um if you based on like looking at the student achievement policy or some policy discussions with and she just came out of a great learning experience if there is want to have a framework at the policy level again it's not down into the details but more sets out some Frameworks um let me know we can put it on the agenda yeah I don't I don't I'm not the academic expert at by any means and so it would be for me and the board's role is clearly like setting out a vision you know for the
028superintendent to and designat to implement I'm excited about this I think it's really great thank forward um thanks for coming to me your research mix method and S action action research uh that gets into that last statistics class you need to get before you get your PhD doesn't it goal is that based on mix methods oh I love that that's movie thank MMA all right um so as you all might recall um because we had a bond meeting that was unscheduled we had a meeting a policy committee meeting that we skipped so we had some things on the agenda that we were going to um that we considered kind of set up for Action um but hadn't moved um so we have the next two or two of those items um and so I'm going
029to ask um Liz to provide a um just a brief overview of the reasons why we're changing um the policy around Board of Education and and fing vacancies it's a relatively straightforward um and you have in your packet there is essentially just a striking out of one sentence and do you want to share the why the why quick agenda item it doesn't comply St okay so I don't know where it came from and how long ago but we it's as we were looking at that process when direct got realized ity consist okay okay all right we took out the there's you can't go outside the Zone okay okay it's just I mean we we could appoint somebody if nobody's up you could some from okay oh not from the district it could it's not just
030anybody they have to live within the zone right um okay let's see how fast these let's make that a goal for let's make that a goal for everyone we'll see how Cooperative everyone is um okay so um like the know those commit can we refer this the recommendation to the C board for consideration for a first reading I think so yesly straightforward so the next agenda item is um again this was something that we had worked on at the previous meeting it's um a small Amendment to the ethics conflict of interest policy and it and we had a discussion that wording was um more expansive it is that the change is in section all the section8 sorry I printed out two CES so in Section 8 um the last time we discussed it um this
031is like restriction on board by so since board member supervised superintendent um and manage their their contract um the earlier the earlier proposal had been that there be like cooling off period of time between the time a board member served on the board and Wasing superintendent the time the time that they would um could um apply for or accept an offer employment and based on the discussion last time um that I think was a good good discussion uh remove the um the waiting period it's just if you're currently on the board you can't be so the new language not be the once you're off the board you can do whatever you want um hopefully well you yeah and um it also once you're off the board you're no longer in a supervisory rule of superintendent
032um so the amended language would just be the current members may not apply for accepting so um so the the the year cooling off period was removed I'm just wondering if by removing that it's just like it almost sounds like current board members may not not apply or accept any offer of employment oh it's current board members so I I actually still I think um from our last discussion I still think that the district needs to hire based on the needs of the district and this is like not I just got done with a policy Institute Training and what board members do when they get off the board is is not our it's not approv right and that's and so we that this would not say that so this is current board members might not
033apply for decision because you're still actually in the position of supering the superintendent and and basically what we want to stop is somebody that is currently um overseeing the work of the superintendent from coming in and and then being in a subordinate position no if once you're off once you're off the board you're just a citizen right and you can do whatever you want but it wouldn't be that when you're in the position of supervising somebody also than applying for a job in which they have ultimately the CEO of the organization why you're a current board M yes I I still think it's um I think it's quite outside um in fact what I heard this weekend um is that we should be focused on in intently on student achievement intently on the budget and
034intently on the superintendent evaluation and not much else so this to me even just having it in here seems like a board policy overreach that's just my personal opinion about it it feels like it's just that ethical guidelines and which is what the whole policy is is about right the whole and I and I appreciate that it was I I think it was moved right to this policy it was on its own before or was has it always been under okay so is it so nothing like that is stated earlier no on the board is is this consistent with what what other um like other relationships it's definitely not at the city because people that are in the county as a matter of fact also has hired former electeds but but that's not that's that
035would still be allowed so if a board member were to be offered an an offer of employment which I think would be awkward while they're serving that would this would just require them to would require them to be off the board before they're exploring an employment relationship with the district I mean it's using your office for employ employment so if you're you're off you can apply for whatever job yes I guess I would think I would I would hold a board member to be you know not to start seeking employment opportunities um before their service it but well just like any other ethics rules or conflict of interest rules it's stating the expectations yeah I still I still feel like I just I'm conflicted about this one because I believe that the district when the
036district has an opening like we have for C CFO just recently filled um I feel like if there was someone on the board that were applying for a position that they would they would quit well then they then they wouldn't be they would be a non-current board M right in other words are you trying to get at um board members serving and applying for jobs at the same time has that come up before um be because um I shared with you an example years um it setting setting ethical rules like after something happens like is it's like it's better practice to do it proac yes it makes sense it just creates a fine line so for example as board members we oversee we vote on the budgets of all the Departments um organization we vot
037on the superintendent contct contract we provide evaluation we have a lot of power in terms of governance um so then if we're in the position of applying for a job somebody over which we have authority and whether it's budget Authority or contracts um in that case though wouldn't the person that's currently serving and approving their own potential salary is I mean that there would be a conflict there well that is this is this is a reason why current board members shouldn't be applying for jobs while they're in current board members again because because we oversee the salary schedule this the salary schedule we oversee like the entire District budget um we manage and evaluate this superintendent um so all is ultimately the person who has the ultimate hiring Authority and it seems to me that
038it already says that under five conflicts of interest a the board members areed from being compated by the district as an employee or contractor we can't be an employee this this is a little bit different it's close but this would be like actually after you got the job so just that you can't be creating position in which um using and I'm going to use the term not but I'm not using it IL legal sense just say that sitting here but like UND influence that you are applying for a job when you're actually at the top applying this would this would be this would be saying you can't work at the district at the same time you're your board member and um I mean maybe even the speak this language actually just fits under there no
039board member or employ benefit well this says no board member or employee May benefit under any District contract for which they participated in the authorization for two years following board service so that actually says if you voted on a salary schedule in which let's just say the CFO position if you voted 202 I think this is limited to contracts so a salary schedule is um I mean you could add it or salary schedule um that would be that would be more restrictive though the benefit the benefit of a newly enacted and updated salary schedule is probably only the incremental difference between I'm not sure I want to complicate that concept of salary schedule okay okay I was just talking we to approve that right you rather have it in this section dies could just be
040dropped in this section as a it could actually be the second sentence I I just if it's already in there I don't want but it's it's not it's not it's not already I I haven't thought about this U but this defines an actual conflict of interest so in 5A in 5A so applying for a job while you are a board member I don't know if that is an actual it perceived yes so there's there's actual potential statute but this this is all board members of District employees must disqualify themselves to participating in District AC which they have actual conflict of interest this means among other things list so adding to the list of actual conflicts a thing that may or may not be an actual conflict because merely applying I I mean I'm thinking on
041the Flyers look up where this proposal to put it to Move It from hate to hear may not be there may be circumstances where you don't want that to happen that's a policy choice but it isn't per se an actual interest I see okay so it's a matter of I have I could think about it tonight give moment and come back yeah that's participating District district action right so if I were going to quit today then tomorrow I could do whatever I wanted yes which sounds amazing are you talking about 531 go back to the board baccy policy we finish that we just finished that no it just sounds wow um current board members may not apply for or accept that's restricting the board number but it's not restricting District well it basically means it's
042saying they shouldn't be offered so it's like hey I need you to approve this contract I've got or you know get on board our budgets or the budget cuts we're not taking and I've got a space for my organization yeah [Laughter] should we send it out for a first reading or recommend to the Lord for a first reading I I just I'm just not sure where I land on this I I I think that I feel like it it I feel like it's overreach so are you up for having a first a first reading I am um I'm just wondering if it can be worded a little differently but yeah I don't know but I I see why it's and I'm glad it doesn't extend you know many days pass when you're so we'll we'll
043send it out for a first reading and um we can have more discussions and um I think at the at the board meeting where we at the first reading if you don't have to but if you want to share um now or you can obiously share later up to so feel feel free to do that because I don't want to represent like this came just out of committee but nobody having questions okay and will I'll wait till we have a larger discussion okay so um two other policies and I want to um neither one of them are we acting on today or making a making a recommendation so um people don't have to feel pressured like you don't have to raise issues you have uh because there'll be more time for work um because both
044of them are relatively new topics and I am going to move up um topics since Emily you're here the table um so I'm gonna introduce the topic um and to me this is this is a old Topic in some ways for me because um in the early 2000s most of our Focus option programs had requirements that um students to get into them to get on to apply for them first of all they had school-based lotteries which who knows what was happening you know in the back room that school based lotteries and also um sometimes requirements of like the parents had to commit to volunteering a certain number of hours they had to commit to they had to go pick up the application because it was different from each program at the individual school um sometimes
045they had to have references from their preschool teacher like whe they're ready for Focus program um and in the early foury old um like for immersion program so in the early um 200 four or five um we eliminated all those and we went to a this is um uh we went to one one application that was consistent with no um criteria um that you didn't have to BL anything out so then in 20 2023 two years um we had an issue that this same policy um for kindergarten Mission um and early admission um came up and tag act which is the tag advisory committee um this has been something that they had advocated for and that that there be the um an ability to like test in early correct but you could you could have
046a private test that you could you could apply for to get in kindergarten if if you your birthday was past the September SE 1st okay um and so two years ago um it it was one of those ones that was not universally loved but we eliminated the um ability to have a a waiting period um or this period of time in which if you were pass the September first date that you could submit letters of reference and um also test test like private tests like my child's ready so you could you as a parent you would pay for a private test um go ahead I remember this talking about used to live under tag so um um and and it was it was called early entry to kindergarten and it was a process that for
047many years and I shared I think do they all have the staff memo um yeah okay so if you want the background on it it is summarized in a staff memo that we brought to this committee um in 2022 um and so you know it originally live under tag it was specifically for families whose Rising 5-year-old was not five by September 1 but soon after um and families could go through this process of getting private testing and collecting documents and sort of um applying for like a waiver and exception toct to do early in so meaning they started the four-year-old um it it never meant a childless te qualified so that was always like because it it was overseen by Tech just because there sort of wasn't another place for it to live um but
048there was a lot of confusion about that over the years and so once there was an early Learners Department that began that became the space that hand all of our kindergarten transition were we moved it over to early Learners so it was more appropriate just like a pathway to kindergarten and support kindergarten and what we learned in doing that was that there were um a it was very labor intensive for a very small number of families and children on the on the staff side B there was some really big Equity concerns with it um this was the second topic of this policy committee this policy train tag yeah well that's this totally from tag not a t conversation feelings about it but it's not a t conversation yeah um but it was tag but the
049early entry piece because it preferences families that couldn't afford to gather the paperwork and organized it home yes and pay for the testing and there was a lot of you know potential bias in tests and like what test really does test if a student is ready for kindergarten at that age and all those questions right and so we dug through a bunch of data we analyzed the data which is all in the staff memo and we came to this body and we also looked at comparative what's happening in other districts around us like it's the state rule around this um and came and and said we like to take this out of policy we'd like to basically have a hard rule that you need to be highed by September one to start to start kindergarten
050and that's what we've done for the last two years um and now would You' like to put something else in the policy right so um so policy Comm share when that happened um and heard from the parents who didn't like that when we took that out and I very strongly just like the same reasons why we didn't have we weren't going to have applications for Focus option programs and we weren't going to have you had to drive to the school and pick up the application and fill everything out we weren't going to do that so I I I supported the policy and I also believe sometimes you have to like when the policy goes in place see like the outcomes what are the um what are some of the things you hadn't anticipated so and
051I'm just going to like lay on the table I totally have a conflict of interest since I am a September 5th birthday I'm a September 5th birthday no I well no yeah but it's random like why would I have like my sister who's one year older but born in January like went off you know to kindergarten and like I I went as a four I went as a four-year-old five days shy great so I'm not going to call this a exception but um you know it is an arbitrary date so and I'd love to I sent you an email about just like understanding sort of point the it's arbitrary and so like we used to have start after Labor Day now we start before um however one of the things that so I I drafted
052something that had some more Flex for those like September birthdays that took out any sort of it almost be like you automatically apply in um and there wouldn't be any testing or reference letters or anything like that um because I feel that in some ways the and again this is like sometimes you go back and look at like oh we drew a hard line and we said like this makes a lot of sense and then people are like well what about X and because one of the solutions is like they should enroll a preschool program so actually there's not that much even though there's preschool for all there's not much access to preschool for a lot of fans and so it's not really a solution to like your child can go into preschool for another
053year you know they missed it by two days they can go to preschool for another year um but the other thing is is that the policy and apparently um there's been reports when parents have called about it what they've been told is you can enroll your child in a private kindergarten and pay for it and um then year transfer into our kindergarten even if their birthdays after September 1st because they're coming um which to me is like even more of a money pardon well yeah so I looked I did look like anywhere from $10,000 to go to All Saints kindergarten to uh 30,000 see pardon o yes yeah but like you know all sa which is like a Local Schools 8,000 so you know for here's my mind kind of just being like common sense
054and I'm open to like having aot bigger discussion about it but if we're telling people that people go do it so they go are in it for part of the year and then transfer in um even though the birthday was after um after September 1st um that's a huge inequity because most parents can't pay for a lot of parents can't pay for that so we're providing a solution you mean they can just transfer because we went no nothing from the our actually policy says that it says nothing from the kindergarten teacher no it's just they can transfer over they already know how to line up after what after after doesn't say and then then the other thing is like okay so we tell people to do that and it's like so maybe they do that
055and it's like oh I'm not going to disrupt things for my kid because they've integrated into the kindergarten class I'm just going to stay here and it's like oh then now we lost another student at PPS so I'm trying to think of a way to like hold on to our principles of equity um and also recognize that that September month I say we I've been around PPS for a long time and the majority of the time their starting date was after Labor Day mhm um was for a long time yeah well it wasn't until the parents Coalition got changed before day um so there's just this period it seems like we are fostering and then I went looked at some of the the dates of um I talk to Super about this like dates when
056which other school district starts and she referenced like La is or their C off is like December and so I wanted to just like raise issue like I think it's arbitrary and I'm wondering I'm wondering just for discussion I'd love to get your team's thought is like if you had something printed out the application but it's sort of like you just check like I know my child's like in that whatever great so you're not going at a separate application it's still the same kindergarten application and that in that whatever month Earth could be two weeks but it is that gray area between like Labor Day and September 15th um is uh having a process by which we're not creating an you know here's an additional burden I mean we want people to send their kids
057to PPS and we haven't created barriers or you know everybody has to F the application enrollment applications that just has you could check and you know I think there's a piece to having conversations and I say this as three parents as a parent with three kids who have different learning needs that um really debating like okay is this the right choice to send like even though they're you know by several months met the deadline like should I move them my head um or like move keep keep them moving or hold them back and I think there is like a moment as part of like he your child's in that age group and this is the age group it's arbitrary but we think maybe the amount of for kindergarten and here's some preschool options um which
058is less of a hard deadline and putting parents B in the driver driver's seat um versus asking um the enrollment office to be like judging whether a child's right I don't know I first of all if you can get you kid into kindergarten and save a whole year of daycare you're going to do it because you can save a whole lot of money and especially if you nobody's saying whether they're ready um except for you're born on August 31st nobody says you're ready or not it's just like you're ready because well a lot of people are holding their kids back if they're born in August so they're coming in almost six and so if you come in early you're more than a year behind any of the kids in your class but you literally are
059be a teenager you're in trouble I think I did okay I think brail I did too September 12th did okay I'm a December birthday was January so I was really young too I was born in January and I skipped K my parents tried to get me into well I'd like to it and then um Judy Brennon is on virtually too we've talked about it a little bit this since we got your your um suggestion um so a few different thoughts like it will always be an arbitrary dat right like there always is going to have to be a Line in the Sand somewhere and it's always going to be an arbitrary date and there's always going to be someone born the next day so that and that's just like the situation and I will say
060since we've had this shift Judy and I compare not there have literally been a handful of families who have reached out to us concerned a handful meaning less than um who have shared concern and have fallen in that small window and we've been able to talk and have those conversations um I guess and then I guess another I think important factor is while it's arbitrary it's aligned with our St so Oregon statute talks about starting to offer full day prechool to 5-year-olds and it defines September 1st as a defining date when somebody is five per kindergarten and so I did a quick peek around again today at all of our surrounding districts and they almost all use September one because it's the Oregon State it's the Oregon State arbitrary we don't school for everybody I
061mean it's just like I'm just telling you the facts of like there's a reason why it's September one right versus December in LA or other places it's because our state has defined September one is that date and most districts around us align with that date um I think my worry about the suggested language is it essentially just creates October one as the new arbitrary Dee right because if everybody is born in September is allowed to just check the box that they want to start then they're all then why not just make October one our date like it's and it the way that it's worded suggests that it's a request but if it's a request then there needs to be some kind of Staff capacity to review that request and either approve or not approve that
062request and um so another factor in this is and I think you know we've come you to talked about this before we cut2 and5 million dollar out of our early Learners Department here and really streamlined the whole team so that the focus of the team could really be on high quality Equitable learning experiences for all of our prek students in our 51 prek classrooms and then the other big Chun of work they carry is a well supportting connected kindergarten transition for our in particular for all of our families but in particular for our priority famili so I'm real hesitant to divert any like staff resources to this small slice of small yeah and if I'm more than five that are actually you know we could pull that data if that was interesting to people like
063how many kids in first grade had birthdays in September and you know we could we could go we we know it's more than five it's more than five I'm just saying in terms of how many people have um come forward like very upset about this or um wanting to work through it it's been a small number in the last two years when you say work through it um how did you work through it besides telling them um you can roll in a private school and transfer in when it's come to my team and Judy can talk about you know the things different things come to enrollment versus come early Learners we say this is the role for enrollment in kindergarten we're happy to talk you through available PR opportunity a lot of people there's there's
064you can'ts why not because of Inc legility and I mean our seats are ining flexible because for all our seats are increasingly flexible because of for all so all of our pre applications stay like regardless of income you should try applying because if we have preschool for all seats available post the end you beginning of the school year and we filled all our priority seats we do available space for people and side or I mean yeah and that's just PPS right like there's people all all around the county now and it's expanding every year so there is more and more free public prepay there's not enough for everybody yet for example there's like no down the West Side very little um you look at um so I don't think that's necessarily an option but I'd
065love for you like that to send us the data of like what is open and it's also what's open then because for people to wait like hey their slots open after school starts like most walk going away and sometimes don't want prek they've already been in prek and they want kindergarten into your and I think point you made about that's something Judy and I talked about too there are more and more families um who are holding kids back and therefore you have six-year-olds early in kindergarten and then if youve got fouryear olds and six-year-olds in September in a kindergarten classroom that's a pretty wide range and we are hearing a lot from our kindergarten teachers already about the challenges of Inc kindergarten and the range of needs and so I mean these are all just
066factors I don't know we can we can figure out where we land but these are all factors might I'm just one thing say about that though is like saying that because people held their kids back in their six um we have that whole Deb in our family decided not to I'm really glad I didn't because um physically matured very early and so it was like you would have been a man and it's great um and physically was um and so like there's whole other ramification so because other parents made that choice they've created the broader range um which seems like the wrong to say because other parents made a the decision to have their kids be older that that's going to impact band I consider like it's a tricky there's no there's no right answer
067to this question I guess I'm going to say it's always going to be arbitrary there's always going to be some people who are born right after and and that will always be true and so we just have to think about Equity implications implications on the the balance needs in kindergarten and like staff resource are the things that I that I think about and also just clear Communications to our community and those are all the factors I think about I don't know that there's a hard right answer I do go ahead one hear you yet can you hear me hi can you hear me hello we can't hear you yet can you hear me hello hello no we can't hear you Hi can no nothing nothing okay thank you can you hear me yes okay great
068I'll I'll try be quick um so a couple of things one I yeah I want to um reinforce that when we did have an early entry process and the cut off for early entry was September 30th every year we heard from parents of October birthdays saying I know my child would be um I know my child would qualify I can get you all the I what how can you shut us out so it was um it when the line was October one we still had families on the other side of that line who wanted to be considered and that will be the case no matter what we do um uh I also wanted to just be clear about what the options are like we don't require people to go to a private kindergarten there are
069other public options including Charter options where a student might be able to enroll we don't make the policies for those charter schools there are hes school and other options so I just want to be clear about that we don't invite people to attend a private school we do say if your child is enrolled in kindergarten once they are enrolled in an accredited kindergarten and you have evidence that they've been enrolled in kindergarten then they can um also like transfer into Portland Public Schools kindergarten during during the same year and this rule is partly because other states do have different deadlines and in the past we had confusion a child would arrive with a birthday past September 1st they would be in kindergarten the school would question are we supposed to enroll them in kindergarten or
070not so the um the the rule that's in policy now the statement is to clarify that once you start a grade level you have the right to continue in it you're right we don't say exactly what you have to do to prove that you've been successfully enrolled in that prior grade but usually a child brings records from that grade and so that's how that particular statement came to be I just wanted to add that clarification so you can understand how we have processed this since the policy change two years ago we do not we have not pulled data yet I mean we we really only have we have two kindergarten classes who have gone through this so far um but we have not pulled any data to see if there's a difference for example in
071the number of young students who are in first grade um uh this year or who will be in first grade we don't know who's going to be in first grade next year um so we have very little data to work on but we could certainly pull information and give it back to you if that would be helpful that would be great and just to clarify Judy you said they could enroll in a charter a public charter which you don't have to pay for um so I guess that's equable if you can get in if you can get in um and then you said homeschooled are you saying it's like somebody did a homeschool kindergarten program and then came to the PPS and said my my child's been in the home school is that what you
072meant if they had evidence of being in an accredit instit and that includes homeschooled institutions um they would be allowed to continue in the same grade so you can't just say it you do have to show records that go with it okay and then um how many how much did our pre our kindergarten enrollment drop the last three years kindergarten enrollment has dropped significantly um and if if um and the staff report from two years ago indicated that the number the average number um um Emily sorry I I I just pulled over I was driving no um Emily probably has the number but I think it was approximately 30 35 students per year that participated in the early entry um process that qualified I think there were more than that that applied that had to
073be discuss the all were qualified each on average I mean I can definitely confirm that that kindergarten enrollment has been far greater like the loss sorry the loss has been greater than that number of students over the past two years and you'd also have to follow up and see if they seem to qualify coming in are they still at third grade level yeah because you know you you don't want to push yeah I mean anecdotally as you know I was a principal in PPS for six years and had several of these situations and I mean i' would say there were like a few that worked out there were a few that like by the middle of the year it was clear that like while there might have been some academic Readiness which is really about
074opportunity it's not about like it's really about was there exposure was their preschool was there reading at home like right at that age um there often were like emotional or Social Challenges which makes sense there's a lot of development that happens at that time in the wide range um kindergarten teachers uh I would say largely were not in favor of really entering in government policy and I think I'm hearing that from your director you know like this idea of so they were saying like a student whose birthday was September 10th had significantly more issues than uh August 15th the same thing about August 1 I mean I think in general any anyone who's real close to that deadline makes you know there's there's big a lot of emotional maturity and development happens in very few
075months at that age right like and again there's a wide range like nobody's there's no there's no real typical but um even late summer birthdays like often kids are are younger emotionally right and um so somewhere we have to draw the line where we say this is going to be the entry point for us so I'm wonder I just I I really appreciate the focus on early learning because of the brain development that happens Z five and your background in it is really helpful in yours to director San because nobody's we're not saying like what's what's best for the child and two years of a classroom between four and six sounds like 10 years um in in in adult years just in terms of where all the kids are like you said emotional and pH
076even physical development I mean for instance is that a child needs to be able to hop on one foot to be ready I've heard this from uh someone that is a monaster educator in my family they train monaster teachers to help on one yeah and kids are all different sure kids born September 2nd who would excel in kindergarten and Beyond right like of course like so but there's a there's a fine motor skill there's a large motor skill there's a brain development um a Continuum yeah and so I I'm really interested and and we have to have there has to be a date at some could be any could pick a date right and to Judy's point they would be if it's May 23rd people born in the last week of May are going to
077think that their child is brilliant and is able to do it and it might not be the case because of that R i' like to you know whatever is good for the kids and again know this is not this is this is going to be just by what you say it's going to be imperfect right there are going to be kids on both sides of the line who a teacher may not consider ready for kindergarten in fact in PS we really tried to like move away from the framing of ready for kindergarten and kindergart need to be ready for kids whoever's coming in the door but we do have to have some rules to like that are clear around enrollment and policies and there needs to be have a point of view about parents who
078hold their kids back I mean some parents like to because they like to hold their kids back I mean tell everybody kindergarten should be ready for your kids like don't there's no hard set of steps kids need to have to be ready but we you know like so but it's a family's choice right like if a family decides for whatever reason that's right child they so I have friends that live in Canada and they want they there's a culture of holding their boys back so they're bigger when they get into that hockey team well there's a whole book of outliers about that show so that's not a thing we we endorse or encourage with PPS it is decisions some and they can't so so one thing i' like from you because I think for us
079saying they can go to preschool if it's not real we shouldn't say that so for example we should say that is during our open like what's open actually during the kindergarten during when people are runting for kindergarten because if you're a parent and like PPS is saying no you can't do that um it can't be well you have to wait till August to find out whether you going to get in preschool because they could make other choices um so that last went out today so I I got it but I but I'd like to know what like how many slots we have open and and who's who are they restricted to yeah and who they're open to because again when I read the materials they say we can you can go to kind you can
080go to preschool and like I don't think that's real because I talked to a lot of parents I mean it exists spaces exists it's very it's still very limited so I'd like to see the data on that and then um do you mean just in PPS or inps because I'm thinking about like what message are we sending to our PPS parents our future PPS parents so prek offered anywhere in Partland batteries serly is that what you're like if they're they're saying yeah okay your your birthday is September 7th um and in like the STA M they go to prek it's like I'd like to see what prep they actually go to in NPS I think that's my question do you mean offered by PPS or do you mean Geographic that's what I'm assume because otherwise
081I mean but I mean you're just gonna whatever date you said I I know but we shouldn't be we shouldn't be saying like you can go to like there's a preschool option for you because that's what that is what the staff reports said like they can go to preschool and it's like and I don't think we should represent this is more about how we message it because if okay like it's not real like we shouldn't say like we let them go to preschool or we set them up for PR year preschool and like when in fact they can't get into preschool and the thing um the next meeting I'd love to get your point of view or time um why we why we allow kids from other states again we're in a declining why we
082allow um if the rational juty said that students from other states can do that um like even though they can enter our kindergartens if they didn't start there because they started somewhere else like why we think that's okay because if we're going to be you know hard knows about it we'd say you know they got to wait another year I mean I'm just they're losing families well I'm just saying I don't it seems inconsistent for us to say hey if you move here from another state doesn't matter what date your child was I think said that was rational for the language but that's it's app it's applicable to anybody you don't have to be comate access this language I think it's what Jud how I'm just like Curious like how that is like make sense
083like how is that consistent if we're saying and you mean this I just want to make sure I'm getting correctly so you mean this like uh one C one uh 1 C two is that what you're talking about you're talking about this clause about someone who's been enrolled in kindergarten outside of PPS and they may enter the school district during the school year that's the even if the DAT occurs after September first okay um because different districts have different C right but if we're going to be arbit with our future families I mean I'm just like and then my other question is the one I you've given somewhat of a rationale for like why September 1st but like is it um if we all agree there's going to be like an arbitrary date does it
084matter to you which one it is well it has to align with the state I thought the state was SE 1st the state doesn't I my head it's it's an alignment but it's not a requirement it's not a requirement okay but every other District in the state I pulled our I mean we could we could pull more if you want I mean I pulled just sort of our surrounding districts and they were all September one except I think hilsboro was September 10 I believe and like has se 15 exception okay so we can data thing is everyone's going to want to go early that's not true so I mean well not every because we just talked about the hundreds of people who no there AR hundreds there's some but who has to find daycare for
085their kids is going to want them to go to kindergarten but py we just talked about the whole group of parents who who hold their kids back but you're saying but you're saying all parents are going to do that and we know we know like of parents don't have to pay for or pay for child both these things will happen these are both real things going to get a wider and wider and wider range but I think you should be careful about using the word always because you're implying that people are going to I mean I don't think you should use the word always because that's implying that parents are doing something that maybe not be good for their kid because they don't they don't want to pay child care and that's just like that's
086an assumption you're making that's what I think many many many people though that's and we know that a lot of people hold their kids back and pay whatever it is or stay home that would be a smaller um Universe of families it's actually sounds like it's a larger universe don't have those numbers and I don't want to be misrepresenting it I think if that's data people want we could try to pull that data triangle in Port I think we that we can pull but you're interested in um students who are starting kindergarten at six-year olds is that a question you I think and maybe it's just um dat the St report about the numbering interest number of students and again we shouldn't use that as an excuse of like we got six years olds in
087the class because we parents made decisions back but like I think a want for like precise numbers when we're talking about large groups or some groups or all or whatever so I'm hearing number of students starting kindergarten at six-year-olds we can also Judy suggested looking at number of first graders who like had those September birthdays right like who managed this kindergarten situation one way or another and start in first grade in PPS the next year to answer that question of like is this policy making us students some way right that so we can Judy and I can work on some data and pull some things together and then I sounds like rational for the transfer policy mid year information on how much Kinder Garden enrollment has dropped over the last three years and then rationale
088on why September one like with a different arbitrary date right matter look I get the whole argument like you pick a date is arbitary I do think I say our starting date has shifted um over the years sometimes it's before laor day sometimes it's after um and I just think it's yeah AR earlier now right that would put our date in August somewhere which I don't think well it depends on when Labor Day yeah Falls um and then the last thing I heard was um just information about how much PR is available in the area sorry okay great thank you yeah you can work on that thank you okay thank you thank you Judy thanks Judy okay we don't have a lot of time I'm going to set this up for next next meeting and
089what I would ask thank you so much em for coming um is that between now and the next meeting think about what questions you have um um so this is setting up oh yes solicitation policy pardon solicitation yeah and it's um it's been in the news it has um today is matter yes um there's not a lot of difference I think between the county and city um or the county the city the I mean we're a large jurisdiction of that um that's not a lot of contracts yes this is so happy to read this unlike um say other entities like the city of Portland where they would put something in ordinates um our practices we set out the high level principles and policy and then an ad or something else some other the the details
090detailed Direction so this is really design because if somebody looked at this is like this is like so high level and vague it's like well is actually to basically provide direction to staff to um to create a framewor right do you want me to walk that through it's your fault you're looking at me try words around your concept but it's yeah um so essentially the first paragraph Just sets out um like why we do it like we're large public Ting um and we let a lot of contracts expenditures um the second uh paragraph is that acknowledging that like there's a whole other section on conflict of interests that applies to board members that applies to District staff um and then it defines what um contracts and expenditures would be um covered by this and makes
091two very important exceptions um as you both know a a lot of our a lot of our contracts are all done by um RP and so there's competitive scoring process there's people are like there's no conflict of interest yeah so that wouldn't apply to anything related to that and obviously not apply to our collective bargaining agreement so if p is in advocating on behalf of their contract that's not Bing right um and um then it defines and this is a place where um the question is um some thresholds this is 100,000 um I'll say in most registrations the threshold is like the first dollar so for example like the city city of Portland right it's like if you're going to be advocating if you're lobbying you need to register with the city and you need
092to disclose right so it's not like oh this is just like a $110,000 deal um yeah just where you're having drinks or whatever yeah so that's one thing um there was a higher number in I think we should go look at what the best practices because I think the best practices is like if you're advocating on behalf of it it's whatever level could it be a percentage of the contract I wonder if um our internal auditor might have some ideas about I say most and there's jurisdictions across the whole us there's lots of models but most that I'm aware of set the threshold this like if you're in applicating and you like you're being paid you're being paid not this isn't volunteers but if you're being you're being paid to come in and sell a
093product sell Yonder pouches or you know pick the item like you would need to it's a transparency it's not you can't do it it's just like we're going to be transparent you need to disclose can you tell me something before that happens ask where somebody has come in and and we've bought something for well you lob by the young person the whole time well email Frenchie Frenchie um oh yeah okay okay so that's so that's what go to the Council of GRA City Schools or toosa like all the vendors they're all so the curriculum or the people who try to show you a new curriculum something or the playround equipment or I mean iPads for seveny olds okay culum apps um the younger pouches was a really good one so that's so so if the
094if if the honor wanted to come do business with the district they would have to say I'm doing business to public I'm doing business with the district I want to sell seven high schools younger pouches 30,000 a piece um and I have lunch with the superintendent to tell them how great or whatever being sold or communicated for more than so that's the other piece so this is for example I think the city has eight hours um Metro has five per quarter so there there's sort of like a yeah there there's a threshold of like hey if you made one phone call like would be the case but if you like somebody up to lunch and then you're do meeting individually with every board member or like all the members of whatever the curricul team um
095but that's a that's a place um and then there's question about there's registration again that's about transparency again not it's just part of part of business I mean that's what sales people are for you know they um or Advocates the and the question would be also about reporting and um there are ways in which it can be uh Lous and that might be a matter of like St time so be thinking about that P the registration it's pretty it's pretty straight for like for example use Metro you just go on to their website there is like you know waste management is like just listed with their like we're we you know meet the lobbying requirements and we Lobby Metro okay so the reporting is somewhat different and the question of like how much you want
096to have the state currently requires quarterly and annual reporting on like who is the sign bobus there's entity registration and then if you've expended any funds you have to um it the process of like making that transpar that reporting piece could be made very easy byting a local form you know for instance I think that's if I'm registering as a lobbyist my name and organization I'm representing and maybe some other data but that can go directly to that could be the right to form on the website or dashboard I guess I just have a question to ponder answer the the definition of engaging with um I think we'll need some clarity of those who have current contracts that require them to engage with the district seek renewal of a contract later is doing the work
097with the districts engaging in hopes that it gets re like I don't know that means but I have to that that makes me wonder if is this so the curriculum in the Y some of those examples those are things that are for sale what about I'm thinking about like our nonprofit Partners I mean if they're coming in saying you can't cut my contract by half even though you're facing a budget deficit I mean I think if somebody shows up a board meeting and says that that's talking about outside of a board meeting um maybe even the superintendent I mean I well generally the rules are written um that anybody who has an econ who's being paid to essentially get a contract or nonprofits I mean they're getting paid they're getting paid they're just yeah um
098we were really clear that there's that does not apply to individuals or entities who advocating for things that where there's no direct financial interest like think of all of our parents some of them who is a full-time job to advocate for us or on our behalf but they're not getting paid and they're not actually asking for something to okay so what are we trying to keep from AC are people buying things under the table sort so um all across the United States like in almost every large jurisdiction where you have large sums of money like people are paid to um get contracts or allocations from public enedy so this this is a general practice and the school district is no different just because we have a noble um mission of um the having transparency about
099who's seeking to influence um again we've so anybody who wants to sell us anything over $100,000 I'm G to come up with it I'm G to answer your question is like I think Z some again think about those textbooks adoption they're millions of dollars they all big RFS right I mean I don't think Tex are R fees they're like selected by sure okay so P it doesn't say you can't do it but it it is um it's a very standard practice in large public but we've never had it we've never had it and I would say partly because um so there was a wave in the 70s and 80s when like there was no disclosure and there were no rules a lot of ab not here but I'm just saying in in jle and so
100the approach is we should just make it transparent you're not out it you're just making it transparent anybody who wants to sell right I mean it's interesting because right now mostly the contractors the public records request to ask for like what the big things they're you know they're competitors um but it it puts out in the open the Daylights activities that happen before cont and I don't think there's anything special about PPS like um we wouldn't do it because we're like we're a school dist Dr yeah we're trying to maintain you know some secrecy around no I I think it's this a good protection place and then the last uh paragraph is just like remind people like hey these these rules that even if you say F A Google sheet and you're reporting you still
101have to like you're lied to $50 annually if you're going to take somebody out to lunch like um there's other rules that apply that even though you yeah well that place but also um but not for the lobbyists necessarily are there yes yeah oh yeah you can't spend more than $50 um uh I for sure okay for sure okay um yeah so the rules apply both ways and frankly usually it's the public officials who don't know where the rules are most people who are registered obious very much know what the rules are about like what's what's allowed um so this the last is just like there's you may be reporting that you're and registering as as a lobbyist but you also are still required to follow all the other evic rules so now tell me
102an example of what of somebody who's want to make a contract with one of us okay Yonder all the textbooks any of the apps Pull my inbo okay so they so I'm getting G an email about that and I just say oh I'm kind of interested then do they have to register right way well if they if they have a 5H hour conversation with you in a quarter or they have an hour conversation with you and then Michelle and then you know me and Herman or then they like call up the the chief of staff or the superintendent so we should say to them if you're going to talk to us to all of us or to me for five hours you need to register here I will tell you um P um frankly any
103person who is working with a public entity knows what the rules are and they and frankly they know that we have no rules okay oh yeah yeah but but if we didn't have a rule that's what you would say right and I'll tell you people very quickly people who are regular vendors would understand that and just sign up like I say Metro um when I was talking to the Metro president the other day she said Metro put theirs in place after there's an audit that was like you need to have this in place so that it's transparent oh wow and it's we should probably read that um so they would if they said they didn't know because it's a new policy so they come to us and I can say oh yes I'm interested but
104you need to do this well and they may be like you're the first person I call and I don't think I'm going to get to five hours okay um the the vast majority of people who are engag in this or want to be in compliance because it's it's bad when you're not in compliance I mean the city of Portland has had a lot of yes Audits and disclosure about people who weren't in clients um but the vast majority people yeah like it's not a big deal they're like not they don't have I don't mind being you know bending it's like I have a relationship with the school district and part of their rules are you just yeah just do yeah I think it's good business practice to have these schools in place just we're not
105a business we know the rules too yeah don't accept any $50 cups of coffee yeah once a year or once a year yeah okay so um close the meeting because the time and um then also um just have you all think about what questions you have about this one question I have is like how this plays out at a school level because they're like a sign up for X yeah we know um so I'm not quite sure what to do about schools so maybe on that too in addition to I think you raised a really great issue so i' love to yeah just trying to play out all the scenarios so yeah let's think about it I mean most of the time what people do is like if they have an existing contract and they
106want to get renewed they just register because like yes but you want to be clear that that's what you engage with needs and so I I think we we want to not set traps and well if someone registers them do they think they're definitely getting a contract no I think it just means like I'm meeing the rules which is I'm I'm out there advocating for for something that I have a financial interest in that I'm getting paid for but I file I mean generally I find like when somebody has an existing contract and they're going to go for Renewal you get really great service but we don't want to have traps yeah let's think about some examples and how I mean you yeah the sophisticated people in the process you register the bud of they
107don't Eng but people are not going to think about that from compliance risk manager who wouldn't ever occur to them that that's what engage means so I think want to be intentional we'll think about come up with other questions yeah because I'm thinking about I don't know who decides but like the classrooms and all those things that are super expensive that they sell the kids it's like how do they get in the schools or you know just yeah the JS people those may not be contracts with the district probably yeah I don't know I mean so but I know there's things that get sold and there's a flow through at school based things and obviously we don't want to create yeah let just think about that and Mary has just we should invite em to
108next discussion you already on it she'll have some other perspectives and questions she might have an opinion about this too she had three kids she might think about kindergarten I don't know if they have September birthdays sure have I all spring birthdays it wasn't really about I my May 30 I still debating should I the meeting's concluded so are we turned off Terry are we okay