001e e e the meeting to order uh Welcome to the Wednesday October 99 2024 design review board meeting public comment is by Zoom or by phone or phone by calling 877 5247 or 888 78899 and entering meeting ID 9412 this information is also available on the published agenda in the Public Notices section of the city website and on the broadcast of this meeting on CTN Channel 16 AT&T channel 99 and online at www.a2gov.org slatch CN the volunteer resident design review board appointed by the mayor and confirmed by city council Foster's excellence in Ann Arbor's built environment M design and advises applicants on meeting downtown design guidelines first the applicant presents their proposed project for 15 minutes then the board discusses the design after that members of the public can comment for up to three minutes
002each uh Hank if you can do the roll call please I will actually be doing the roll CER today um Jeffrey Perkins here Tamar burn Lorie Singleton here thank you William Kenley here Richard Mitchell here John karski and Wendy Ramson here thank you you have a quum thank you uh we'll move on to approval of our agenda um if I could have a motion to approve in a second so moved second um moved by dick and seconded by Lori any discussion on the agenda all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed same sign agenda is approved uh next is the approval of the minutes this is the minutes from our July 10 2024 design review board meeting I could have a motion and second motion to approve second uh moved by Lori
003and seconded by Wendy any discussion uh yes please uh I would like to clarify a comment on the first project that 129 South University um item number four about the brick column and radius um it's written as being uh very tight transparency might be good uh I would like to add in there my comment was really that um that that area might um benefit from an inset and not just transparency but push back so however you want to word it I think this was um drafted by Julia um but I'd like that added please uh believe that that was circulated by email for final comment it has been provided to the petitioner team so we could we could send that to them um okay well I I thought that was what my comment was okay
004so had to make it clear when we were in the meeting um Julia that was your project that you brought to drb correct yes okay and we uh did circulate that for comments from the board members correct yes we circulated the draft okay and then and then after a week as is protocol uh assumed final with no comments well I missed that so that's okay uh would it be acceptable to you Miss Ramson if we uh clarified that comment in an email to the petitioner sure okay we will do that uh instead of a a just because of the delay it seems like it would be challenging to update all of the various copies and where they live I would um rather add that clarification as an update to the like I say I thought
005that was clear when I spoke to them but um it was more than just transparency so fine got it uh did you hear what the uh correction was Julia Miss Shake did not because I Was preparing something for this meeting but if let me open up a tab to note that okay uh yeah so it was item number four on the 129 um South University uh just making sure that one of the options is actually an inset or um rather than just transparency at the corner thank you thanks and I will be more attentive next time when the minutes come through that is good to point out because for the um uh draft recommendation summary that staff will prepare for this meeting it will also be circulated by email because of the staggered nature of
006the board you do not always have meetings that are consecutive so we had to find another way to finalize your recommendations without waiting four months or so or conveni a meeting just for the purpose of approving minutes uh so that is how we've uhi that you do you will actually have a meeting next month um however we'll still plan to circulate those for comment via email so please look out for that email from U Miss Shake thank you and just to just to clarify Wendy and to the rest of the the members what we do it's I think it's about a week after this meeting we circulate a draft letter where we summarize the comments um from the the members uh we circul circulate that to the members before we finalize it and share that
007with the applicant so be on the lookout in about a week yeah so I don't suppose there's any way to I mean in essence what we're what we're the reality of what we're dealing with is that our comments are going out to the developers to the development team um as though uh I guess with the understanding that we're going to approve that at our next meeting because I think we have to approve minutes in a public forum um so yeah if uh if you if you can pay attention to what comes to you in email and if you have any objections um just make sure you copy all when you not objections but um clarification or whatever um just get that back to everybody at the time that the the emails are circulated then that
008way they can go to the developer and and then they've got everything so uh without objection um send that to the uh development team and um we can move on I guess we have to vote on the approval of the minutes so all those in favor favor signify by saying I I I Poe same sign and the minutes are approved uh picking up Wendy's comment uh Now we move on to public comment uh section uh Britney at this time we have no comments or hands raised all right um to speak during public comment please use the raised hand feature in Zoom or call 9412 there will be another public comment section at the uh later on in this meeting and now Now we move on to regular business uh Dr 24-4 303 Detroit Street uh
009[Music] Julia thank you was just promoting our panelists so this is point of clarification for the agenda this is Introduction of the project I present my staff report after the applicant presents correct yes this is a project at 303 Detroit Street a proposed plan to convert this site from an office retail building to a primarily residential building construction includes building an additional floor on top of the existing buildings adding balconies to the east side and creating aart parking garage in the basement accessed by rotating automobile elevator from a new driveway off North Fourth Avenue the additional 10,000 square ft of floor area features glass and aluminum curtain walls to produce apparent mass and contrast from the existing industrial aesthetic the site is located at the South End of the North Fourth Catherine Detroit block zoned
010D2 downtown interface and Cary Town character overlay district and secondary Street type designation uh and just as a note um that this is uh some additions on existing space existing building is a a little bit more than 30,000 square ft so it's an addition of about 10,000 square fet so the the ground floor and then uh two to or three to four floors depending on the two buildings that are connected uh will remain primarily intact with some modifications and most of the work will be be done in addition on the roof of these two buildings with that um I will turn the the floor over to the applicant team uh we have two representatives and other Representatives available from the applicant team um to present their project you're muted Mark oh Julia there y yes
011can you hear me yes oh okay and video guess I'm on so uh I'm not quite sure how we're going to handle the referencing here will you be allowing us to share our screens with us to show the graphics are are you going to be doing that juliia no you should be able to do you not see the the share green button on the bottom yeah I'm gonna have Jim share that and he will is he um promoted to speak also yeah okay all right great okay so um I'm just going to give a little uh recap here of Design Concepts and what our ideas were and then I'm going to have Jim as the project architect discuss some of the other features uh in more detail but uh if we go to sheet A4
012Jim um which is the um exterior views of the um the old agricultural Implement Hall and the the Edition uh when you know we've looked at this building for a long time since the building across the street the flat iron building next directly across the street took a lot of its design cues from a heavy concrete base that held up um the uh the other four floors and uh some of the other sheet metal elements were Incorporated next door now the agricultural hall building uh was built 1856 and it was substantially renovated over the years with many improvements including widening the windows to accommodate all aluminum sash we think sometime in the mid-50s something like that so that's why the windows are not quite proportional to the uh the width is is a not an
0131856 kind of uh demonstration of how you would do a window like that uh and then in 198 8 when the new uh Edition was added designed by Frederick Herman uh the existing building was substantially upgraded structurally uh the footings were underpinned more steel was added to reduce the spans on the floors so right now we have a quite robust 1850s building the parut has been rebuilt so we we're able to accommodate more loads on this building than we uh with normally be able to without sub substantial structural work plus we have very good bearing in this area with uh the gravel uh outwash Marine plane so it's uh the pounds per square foot can easily accommodate an additional floor on both buildings um I think uh one of the things that uh we looked
014at we looked at what was the importance of this facade here on the right where the the Garden Court is The Silo ESS stair Tower and how that related to the farmers market building and that's become it's become a very important part I think of the farmers market um experience is to walk by this and so uh one of our early objectives was to look at how we can preserve this as much as possible and in fact we are doing very little except for some pedestrian accessways uh that will affect The Pedestrian experience to this level and it's been vacant for quite a while when sweet lorain's went out of business there was a business there but these Courtyards will be uh made more active with um Courtyards uh off of the lower level now
015if let's go to sheet A4 Jim or M sorry A10 that's the first floor plan [Music] um I'm on A1 oh you're on A1 oh okay yeah um so one of the one of the early questions was how are we going to handle uh parking uh pedestrian access elevators and services and there was a lot of discussion among the design team as to whether we do it off of the uh Detroit Street side or do we do it off the Fourth Avenue side and we came to the conclusion that it'd be better to preserve the Garden Court and the experience on the Detroit Street side and not um encumber that with a vehicle package drop offs pickup and loading vehicular access so this led us to decide to create a new parking entrance where we
016have an access to a carousel parking system that will accommodate 12 cars as well as a drop off and a new elevator that's located uh in the slot between the two buildings and of course uh as you can see the blue common area there is uh a kind of continuation of that existing uh pass through now that you walk through it will be closed off and uh but but but residents will be able to uh walk through the building or be able to walk out towards the farmers market or walk on to fourth hav or walk uh to the elevator go down to a level and call for their vehicle to be U delivered on the spot without going into the garage so that's Jim can explain how that works when we look at the
017cross-sections a little bit later so once we got that issue sort of out of the way then it became a matter of working out the other details so going to let Jim sort of start from there and walk you through some of the other features of the building okay so um at uh at the ground plane our goal was to um provide a vehicle access from Fourth Avenue and this is going to be done at grade so this uh garage area is halfway between the the basement area and the first floor area it accommodates um a carousel system that um has a turntable in front of it so we'll be able to drive in and uh load your vehicle in through the center of the Carousel and it will stack uh 12 vehicles in there
018uh and then we have one Ada handicap space which is required by code that's also accessed off the turntable and so when you back out the turntable can either turn 180 degrees or 90 degrees and then your vehicle will exit out uh facing the street um we decided to put a loading area um we decide to have the main lobby because currently there's no um handicap access from Gray to this building the existing um elevator is is a 2500 lb series and smaller than will handle a gurnie for this building when it was put in in 1988 so we're accommodating a new elevator and a new lobby area that's at grade that will um be accessed from the Fourth Avenue side um and then um we're doing packages for um Amazon and uh the corridor
019itself will be blocked off currently right here there's a stair to the basement um exterior outdoor stair um which collects a lot of debris and stuff and um so it's um we're going to try and eliminate that access point so that we can have better security of the building and stuff we're going to maintain the exess here that's currently here and the entrance here for um going up the grade slopes considerably it slopes five feet from front to back and we'll have Suites on the main floor the existing silos being maintained we've got some balconies that we're going to be accessing from those Suites um the next floor up the only change here again will be Just An Elevator Shaft and the vehicle shaft with some additional balconies on the building we're going to do
020some hung metal balconies um on the brick uh veneer for the white swan building um some balconies in the gaps between the two buildings that are there currently we're just trying to maintain the same original look of the building that was there all along same thing on the third floor hasn't nothing there fourth floor here we're going to add a story on top of the white swan building uh it's going to be accessed from the elevator um we are going to do this this Suite it's a it's going to be a half a flight up from the original fourth floor because the parit wall is so high on the White Swan building we're going to have to offset this story so it's going to have its own entrance from the uh from the elevator on
021the fifth floor we're going to add on to the 1988 Edition with a two Suites up there um private balconies on opposite Corners um and then a common space with the stairs there in the elevator access so the um in the elevation we're maintaining everything that's original to the building the only elements that are changing are the upper elements we decided to do um with the fourth floor story here the stair access and the elevator access and then another uh fifth Story up here on the U 1980 Edition this large element here is our car carousel that's facing the farmers market parking lot U balconies will be added and they're independent of the building except for the the hung balconies that are on the White Swan building uh we're going to maintain a glazing up
022there for the upper Penthouse Suites and uh do a a light metal either gray or some some kind of light metal this will be the access for the garage on Fourth Avenue with a man door there that's accessible this will be our new canopy here that we're adding as far as an element uh to our lobby that's at grade on Fourth Avenue and this is the uh perspective from Detroit Street looking towards that area we're going to the only thing we're going to be doing as far as a change to the building uh we we have to um provide new windows for the for the faad we're going to redo the glazing system because it's failing um based on its 40-year life um the windows here that were originally in here are an older series
023oning with the fixed glazing we're going to go back to more of a traditional window that will be in keeping with the white swan building so all these windows will be replaced with new modern Windows system and this is the section uh storage is down here um Car Care cell will sit in here and then the new Suites up here on the upper story uh everything else is existing will'll be just uh gutting the Interiors of The Office Buildings removing all the metal stud partitions and providing new spaces there for residents that's uh basically the uh everything that is happening to the building yeah I might just add that the Triangular balcony um uh Arrangement um uh is on the on the new 88 Edition is a kind of a reflection of the the angle
024of Detroit Street so while whereas the old building assembly did not reflect the diagonals of Detroit Street this balcony is a small reflection of of those uh the directional aspects of Detroit Street also there is a signpost not shown in this uh rendering that's on the existing building that identifies the building and it is a similar Arrangement um it's right above the U the courtyard you can see it in on another sheet I think I we went by that earlier that's which one so that's I don't know how we're doing that's pretty much a wrap up of kind of our um project and I guess we are open to questions if that's appropriate now or I'm not sure what the procedures are oh thank you thank you for that uh so next we should listen
025to the staff report um Julie you can present that to us I presume thank you Jim and Mark for your presentation um give a brief summary of the staff report that was shared as the applicant stated the site is two connected buildings situated at the southern end of the block border by North Fourth Avenue Catherine Street and Detroit Street uh primary work in the 10,000 ft proposed Edition is additional space above the existing buildings uh on the existing roofs above the existing roofs with the addition of triangular-shaped balconies in metal format uh in various locations around the building and the addition of the carousel parking system staff identified a number of design guidelines uh that could be especially pertinent to this project uh specifically in the categories of urban pattern and form open space parking
026driveways and service areas building massing Street Edge entries materials building operational systems sustainability and building elements and noting that this is in the Cary Town character District and these are uh Street type uh secondary Street designation so as a transition space uh staff an in staff's analysis SE notes that as a trans transition space between downtown and residential areas of ant Arbor KY Town primarily contains two to four story residential buildings and commercial buildings including a number of single family historic homes while the proposed 60ft height of the building follows the guidelines it's worth noting that there are some lower height structures nearby however given the building's location near the Cary Town shops across the market space uh and the ongoing new construction in the area specifically directly across Detroit Street the height May soon
027be contextually appropriate the design follows the downtown district guidelines for buildings that will be larger than some surrounding structures the facade is broken up and a smaller building modules with varying Heights balconies and building materials including the fact that it is two interconnected buildings staff find this street wall to be appropriate scale for pedestrians the project includes open space primarily through private and semi-private plazas and balconies however the design should consider not only the future residents but also pedestrians and the building's interaction with the adjacent Farmers Market uh K Town particularly directly uh directly from adjacent to the KY Town shops an AR in an arbor Farmers Market is a very popular location for tourists and visitors the proposed building has a brick o and noting that another neighborhood popular neighborhood Gathering space uh will
028soon be demolished across the street in Bron Court the proposed building has a brick exterior staff finds that this is appropriate given the material context of the neighborhood and the prevalence of brick both on the buildings and in the streets themselves as uh the streets couple of the streets adjacent to the building in which the building fronts are actually paved in Brick additions on the upper floors cladded in glass provide a distinctive break from the lower level design in a contemporary way the proposed construction of balconies in metal accent the existing Silo feature which will be maintained uh conclud it's the staff summary thank you Julia uh so now anybody on the board want to jump in and uh make comment okay we're done thank you guys uh I'll start out by making a couple
029comments I guess when sorry interrupt you Jeff but Lori actually did raise her hand oh sorry I didn't uh we're okay was the last thumbnails are so small that I'm gonna have to get my glasses on go ahead Lori no problem um just a a few things um happy to see you know a different life brought to these buildings in this location um my questions are primarily around accessibility understanding that there isn't a lot of uh interior program um you know that doesn't send you up the elevator to different floors but I'm I'm wondering about um the decision not to add an accessible ramp along Detroit Street um where the existing stairs have been kind of reduced in place of landscape it seemed like you have the ability to play have a ramp there and
030have it not be required to use the elevator we know how elevators Co in and out of commission and that seems like it would be beneficial for folks with um accessibility needs even to the first floor for that so that's my my first question and I'll give I'll give you my other and then you can kind of respond to both um I'm I'm a little curious about the decision to keep the lower Tes and I I know you know with the his toric uh not historic the more recent use of the building and the restaurant at the bottom that had some value but from a Street Experience standpoint and the ability to kind of enliven the corridor I I'm personally wondering about being more advantageous to have that as a near at grade or at
031grade um open space that was more usable and accessible to more people even even within the um Community that's living in the building but also for the adjacent Community there's quite a bit of space around this building and in the downtown area there actually usually isn't right we have kind of a sidewalk and we have a building and then we don't have much left and I'm just curious about the you know the benefit of that space the usability of it the comfort of it and and whether that real estate might be more valuable if brought up to grade um for more to use and appreciate thank you uh uh Jeff should we respond to that now yes please okay um so we have discussed internally among the design team exactly what the a uh barrier
032free ramp uh how that would work or whether a lift would be installed uh presently we have a landscaped area that you can see on the uh first floor uh sheet and there is enough room there to do a Switchback pedestrian ramp uh in that landscaped area so that is a possibility that we're working on internally to see how the geometry of all of that would work or whether we would go to a small uh lift someplace uh within the building or just under the cover of the building so that is something we working on right now we don't have that shown on these drawings but it would be a fairly minimal um impact on the site we think because we sort of worked out the geometries on that the other question is uh ever
033since I saw that Garden Court down there it's getting quite striking to me to look down into a space and um seldom do you have the opportunity without enormous expense to create a kind of a sunken garden that would open up a whole side of the building for residential or uh some sort of commercial space to get light and air down there and and we looked at this as as a real benefit to this space as providing light and air and access to the gardens down there it would be a nice um feature at the grade level it would be more of a public space but uh it's it's been our choice to think about using that as a designing enhancing feature for a future residence or a future business a live work kind of
034arrangement might be a nice thing in that lower level Jim do you have anything to add to that or um not really I mean we've looked at um the possibilities of putting a ramp on Detroit Street that would bring you up um currently there's Concrete in this area here um as it um and it slopes up from the farmers market uh and goes into this walkway area here and currently I don't think it meets the Ada guidelines but um because it was done in the 80s but we could um possibly put in a ramp system that would get you up to the walkway um without having to go through the elevator and up to the common space we we could we've investigated that um briefly and uh like Mark said we could either do it
035with a lift or with a a ramp system if possible so and the the courtyard space too I think we like the feature of the U daylight at the lower level and keeping that U as amenity for those for that uh basement level thank you dick thanks Jeff um so many office building owners are are really struggling right now due to leases and uh and many of them are talking about converting to residential where the demand is and and so this is a real good early conversion example for everyone I I think you've done a wonderful job with maintaining a real iconic building and especially that Silo feature and I sort of like the setting that it's in even though Lor's right it is a little underutilized maybe it's just waiting for its time I
036would hope but the the building is is terrific and as it is and and it's it's going to remain terrific um you've really done a good job I I had one other barrier-free um access question the the one um berf free parking space you have off the Turn Style does the driver then go back outside and walk south and forth and come in the entrance to get into the building is that how that works that was the plan um to there's a Mand door at the at the Fourth Avenue entrance you have to come out to the sidewalk and back up through the uh grade entry Lobby and then through the elevator system okay there is a stair here that's back stair but um yeah we'd have to put in a second lift um to
037accommodate that um handicap space I'm I'm wondering you You' put that in the best place you have to put it I wouldn't put it on Detroit Detroit Street or fourth either but it is going to be an intensified Street with the housing project to the west across forth there'll be more and more pedestrians and I I wonder about queuing space for cars and maybe if that one curb extension between the drop off area and the access to the parking could could also be queuing space um in here right there yeah just for cars waiting to go in while one is is coming out and it's going through whatever it goes through to make that happen it just seems like that's going to be a spot where it'll take a while for a person to egress
038and to enter and um given that there's only one door um so it seems like queuing space there would make sense and and more might be helpful uh but other than that I it it's really well done and I think you've done a great job thank you dick Wendy you have hear hands up hand up sure um question about um so the driveway is being relocated understood but there's a curb Cup right now where I think the lobby is going to be where you have trash collection so where are you um storing the trash for pickup our trash mitigation plan is the same is what we did next door we are going to um have um housekeeping come in and collect the trash from the corridors and take it offsite to um South State Street
039Commons where it will be disposed of and the dumpsters at the South State Street Commons and the recycling as well yeah recycling as well okay um other question is the from this um plan it looks like the farmers market shed comes right up to the property and so uh will that continue to be an option for pedestrians to kind of cut that corner in the Northeast um once these become condos will there be a a certain sensitivity to people um traveling over uh that property um like is happening now yeah we we did keep a little bit of concrete space there at the end of the shed um we did U we're Rel Landscaping it there we wanted to create a buffer both between the residents of the of the building and between the farmers
040market but yet be sympathetic to trying to provide some circulation space back out onto the Detroit street from the end of the shed but there's not an easement there now no there is well so there is one easement on the site and that easement is for the Detroit Edison that um follows here so this will be a maintained power easement um but so that's kind of over the Detroit Edison power easement um for the Transformer that's on site but there's no granted easement for anything beyond that great thank you thank you lendy camera um I probably am repeating a lot of what um my colleagues have already said I you know this this uh building uh the the white swan plus the addition that forer did is a project that I often tout as a
041wonderful example of preservation and beautiful beautiful beautifully done addition um that complement the historic building and I was a little nervous um when I heard uh that this was the subject of this meeting but um I was relieved when I heard that Mark rder was doing it and um very um just to Echo what dick was saying it's just a I think you know beautifully done you've been very sensitive um in um in in and how you've touched the white building I'm have to say I'm not too fond of the balconies um I mean I understand you're trying to provide some open space for those units um uh the two balconies on the White Swan building um they they look like they're sort of hanging there on each side um but you know I'm not
042sure I have any suggestions for how to do that differently and um I like that you didn't touch the front um I'm I just I think I think you did a you know really wonderful job um I do wonder how you're dealing with vibration and noise from that elevator for that unit that is sort of over it over the elevator it's um just curious about that um that seems a like a quite a challenge um I also just want to mention on the gardens um as probably as many of you I spent a lot of time at sweet lra and ate in that garden and um it's just a lovely feeling being down there um it's very light and um you know I think I think it worked great as as Gardens for a a
043for the occupants of those units um you know so somewhat like a I don't know New York you know where you go by and see you're Boston all the sunen gardens um they work really well and so I think that could be very successful um I also would love to see a ramp um on that east side and um I don't I can't remember what that ramp is like even though I walk up it almost every day but um is there any way you know that um I don't know if it's something that could be kept um or grandfathered in um I don't know or maybe it's not in the right spot but um yeah I think that's all comments I had great job thank you Cameron thank you Tamara bill maybe this getting by
044the way I I I like this whole design I've love that building Rick Herman did a great job in designing that I've always admired it he was a very careful architect he reflects a lot of the original building and the projection agree with all the Architects on on board it's very well done maybe it's getting too much in the weeds but as a property owner and thinking going through the the planning process while it's a clever solution in uh collecting the TR and Recycling and off sight the question is what can happen in the future if State Street Commons is not available if this is disjoint uh is is the planning department and particularly the the folks that are person that are in charge of trash collection going to be comfortable with this offsite solution
045if there isn't some way to assure that that system will be in place somehow or other so it doesn't end up being a trash collection internally going out under the street Etc sometime in the future what what consideration is being given to that um that's a hard question to answer uh in the future maybe Jim has some ideas about that but um it's something that we think that the whole DDA should address in very very Urban situations because trash collection has become a major issue for smaller buildings that just don't have the off-site ability to get a huge garbage truck of 26 foot overhead clearance above it lifting uh you know trash containers overhead and dumping them this was something that was requested of us in the adjacent building we we spent a couple of
046months trying to accommodate a complete TR crash truck inside the building and came to the conclusion that it was going to be impossible to do so we worked out this arrangement with the the owner but I think it would be great if the DDA could come up with a solution for all all of these sort of situations uh and it allows for recycling as well as maybe compostable recycling as well as just trash there that where you could you have the opportunity to do that better than I think the the garbage truck now I don't really know what might happen in terms of the development agreement that was written on the other building and the owners should uh I don't know if they can respond to that I think they're listing in maybe MAV or
047the Builder uh uh here on construction I don't know if they're um available or online is that I just allowed the contractor to uh the engineering team to to reply hi can you hear me we can I believe hi right hi thank you hey this is Tom fit Simmons um I'm a partner in the project and um and Bill uh specifically we're required to put on easement on the uh the uh South State Commons so there's basically it's it's it's going to run with land I mean we've encumbered another property for trash so it's never going to go away good good answer thank you no problem thank you for that Tom Lori you have your hand up yeah um I did just want to note um especially with a kind of a switch to uh
048residential use possibly the um ability to look at landscape surrounding the building a little bit more closely would be lovely to kind of enhance I know this is further down the line for you but you know enhance the beds that are already existing but I would love to see an expansion of landscape and removal of some pavement on the south end adjacent to Unit 102 um those stairs if they were only accessed to the South you could landscape all around them and create a bit more of a identity as a kind of more of a softer neighborhood residential um use there and and reduce some um Hardscape and incorporate some permeability and a little bit ability to have more Lush landscape around that corner so as much as we can remove of some of that
049Hardscape and soften it um especially within the property lines that would be wonderful yeah we can look into that we've we've discussed that internally is about removing some of the sidewalk that's on that space there right without um interfering with too much circulation yeah might require some handrail reconfigurations or something but other than that that' be great thank you okay thank you Lori well I suppose that bill and Dick and both relate to this maybe better than some of the other members on the board but after you've been around a while um this this building um the part that was designed by Rick Herman in uh in 1988 was built by Joe Neil but my company finished every single one of the Interior Suites in this project starting with the an arbor Observer on the
050first and second floor of the uh White Swan building all the way through to doing sweet lra in the basement and so it feels funny to uh see it come around when I first saw this thing I thought oh my God what are they doing to this building but I have to agree with other members here that this is a this is a great solution and the idea that it's changing from what used to be all offices and a little bit of retail to now all residential especially given what's going on in the uh in the uh office rental environment um I don't know it's kind of encouraging um I have a couple questions well first of all the idea of the the car elevator is really intriguing we don't have anything like that in
051an arbor so I'm going to be fascinated to watch how that goes I just came back from a trip to uh Edinburgh and I had to get into a little tiny elevator to go down into the basement of this Downtown hotel and I mean it was the most CL claustrophobic experience of my life and uh so it'll be this one is bigger uh for sure but uh it's going to be interesting to see how residents respond to an operation like that um just it's it's interesting um question for you are you getting rid it looks like you're getting rid of the ganged pyramid Skylight detail that sort of in the uh inside of the uh L of the building um there's a whole gang of pyramid skylights there there there are some small skylights for
052the basement area and uh we just didn't think that the um that space could be utilized for more open space for a balcony for this sweet 102 at grade level without um taking over other Green Space um and we didn't think the light to the basement was necessary through those U skylights uh if we maintain the lower uh we maintain the Terrace itself so that that's going to become outdoor um seating area for for the ground floor Suite so if I understand this correctly um these are two story Suites um 101 and 102 are lower level and um main level Suites that's our intent is to possibly have um a main living area with um a lower um additional um sleeping area or bedroom spaces with a a wreck space down below so yeah it
053would be um a twole suite there on at the grade plane yeah uh I'm not totally geeked about losing the skylights but I mean it it does present a challenge as to how you get natural light back into those lower level spaces that are tucked way way back uh there in the corner um and especially considering that uh suet 101 already has its lower level Plaza area so um just a question we're adding an area way over here um so that we can get some more natural daylight into the basement area down here um that was some of our intent um so we're looking at the other area ways are scattered around the building to see what we can do as far as bringing natural light in good um while we're up in that area
054where the Triangular balconies are I I mean from an aesthetic point of view I I think they're they're good and so forth but from a practical standpoint um as far as how they function for the units I mean if you're going to put a group of people out on that triangular balcony um you got two you know sort of wedge shaped areas where you know maybe one person can be isolated I guess I I I guess the question I'm asking is is that the right shape for the balcony's uh understanding that you're trying to provide some outdoor living space to those units um which I applaud I just um question whether the Triangular form uh it might serve the aesthetic function uh from the standpoint of how the building looks but does it really function
055well for how the residents might use it so that's just a question I don't object to the Triangular form elevation wise um we we've had some interesting experiences with the two flat iron buildings we designed one at the other end of Detroit Street which has essentially triangular balconies that jut out and then the Triangular balconies on the building next door and people come up with inventive ways we found to furnish those you know like uh I'm not exactly what it sure it is but a lot of times you create uh a space that's a little unusual and people come up with real creative ways to use it and so that's what I'm hoping happens here um the car elevator the car elevator thing uh the the development team actually went out and rode these things
056and used these things where they're manufactured in pits in Pittsburgh gu that right Jim yeah there's a double unit in Pittsburgh being currently used um um by the same company that we're going to be purchasing it from so we went uh the developer team went and tested it out and looked at the safety features and how it functioned and uh you know it's it's virtually quiet you can barely hear it um 12 trays hold vehicles are all going to have um EV charging on them so it's it's a it's an impressive system that we think it's completely automated once they're on the on the lift the uh driver exits and um it goes to its respective space and stays there and then when you come down you essentially have an app that recalls your car
057and it comes down to that level and you get on and drive it out go on the turntable so you're not actually in a confined basement like space at any time yeah I I'm fascinated by it and I'm really looking forward to seeing how it works um the I wrote a sustainability report for the um planning submission and um one of the things that you have to compare this with this uses about, 1300 square feet of space for the turntable the handicap space and the uh actual Carousel car elevator and if we were to put 12 cars out on a parking lot it would use 10 times that much space you know with Paving concrete so from uh an environmentally um from an environmental standpoint this uses far less steel concrete uh it uh doesn't
058need internal lighting it doesn't need Heating in the space it uses far fewer materials so we think it's it's a great sustainable kind of way to handle vehicle parking without under pound underground parking lot garages which in themselves are very expensive to do so not that this is cheap but so just do you do you know off the top of your head mark what kind of the cost comparison say per parking space is for a system like this compared to say I mean obviously it's going to be more than a surface parking lot but uh or a basement parking structure just I I'm just curious you know what kind of cost premium does something like this carry the de the Milling development te is working through that right now and it's a little hard to
059attribute costs because you it's it's a little bit like doing an underground parking garage you're supporting the building so how much of of the structure do you allocate you know to the underground parking garage but I think there wouldn't do this if we didn't think it was a competitive way to handle Vehicles so that's about the only way I can say it right now maybe Tom has a something to add to that Tom you got your hand up yeah I'm sorry can you hear me yes yeah uh uh so specifically on the on the clost side they tell us uh there's a number of different automated Solutions out there right now this is just one of them this they projected around $30,000 of parking space 25 $335,000 a parking space depending on how it's configured
060what uh features and options you get um I I I personally went to Pittsburgh and test this out and the reason I really like the this Carousel style is I I don't like parking and parking lots or parking structures I'm I'm big I'm tall it's it's it's narrow and tight but this is is a double car wide but at the where you where you enter and exit at the first floor because people don't ride up this they they get on and off um you don't people don't actually use it there's only one car wide so you actually have four and a half to five feet of space on either side for your doors to get in and out which is really nice uh and then they're automated gates for safety so once you exit your
061vehicle um you have lots of room to get in and out of your car take groceries or or packages in out of your car exit the gates they close and when it senses that you're out of there for a safety feature then it goes into operation it also operates both ways so uh can go up and down either way they um we experienced and they told us that the time uh from you know trying to get your car to to it being ready to get in is is no more than in 90 seconds at any point so um between that and the technology they having these things is all controlled in apps as well as just directly through your car we were pretty impressed with the whole system Mr chair did you realize your two
062hands raised I see that um Lori yeah mine was sort of like never went down but I did have one simple comment about the balconies which is it could just be the location of the doors being kind of thoughtfully moved to one side or the other that would free up some uh different uses of the real estate on those so it might be something to think about um that's all thank you Lori and uh I did have hand raised although um maybe the time a lotted to it elaps do you mind if I make a comment go ahead uh appreciate the discussion a very engaged group as always when you provide comments uh staff are doing we're doing our best behind the scenes to take notes so that we can resmar them for you and
063then turn them into your your final uh memo of recommendations for the petitioner team and and one thing that would be really helpful to us as you go through your discussion is to cite what area of the design guidelines your comments relate to or if it's unrelated to the design guidelines that way we can organize that in our report uh one thing I would just like to remind the board of is that there is a very extensive review for items such as physical accessibility Ada uh uh solid waste and um transportation impacts associated with projects and those will be uh looked at by our colleagues um in a variety of other departments so we want to also ensure not only that the comments that are related specific to the design guidelines we capture that accurately
064but also that we don't generate potentially conflicting advice from this board that may later be uh given to the applicant or the petitioner from uh staff that specialize in those areas so wanted to make that comment um open to any feedback about it but it would really help us uh do our job thank you all right thanks for that and Lori you still have your hand up or is that an old uh hand raising I back up only to say that I'm happy to retract the comment about the lower level use spaces and uh re um maintain for the minutes that that that's an appropriate use of the lower level Garden space as an amenity to the users if we want to kind of retract that um inconsistency the one thing I will say about
065accessibility is meeting that the letter of the law is not always the same as creating Equitable and fully um kind of uh uniform accessibility to the building and the structure so I think some of the comments start to address the Nuance of that um requirements versus quality of experience um that is I think a a portion of what the board brings to the conversation I would love to believe that our staff also moved Beyond technical requirements to quality of experience so uh let it uh sit well with everyone here that we very much care about those things we take them very seriously and always do nudge our petitioners to look for opportunity to go above and beyond thank you okay any other comments okay hearing none uh thank you very much for the presentation uh
066to the folks at MV D and um we look forward toh seeing this project progress thanks thanks for the presentation patik you all for the presentation and thank you uh to the members for your uh insightful uh comments on a number of different features I would like to just briefly uh summarize uh many of the points that I heard to to make sure I'm capturing the The Contours of your observations and suggestions and comments uh there's an emphasis on potential inclusion of public gathering space importance of pedestrian access at the northeast corner adjacent to the farmers market ability to look at landscaping around the building especially around Unit 102 to create more residential identity by removing Hardscape removing the skylights raises a challenge for some units receiving natural light aesthetically the Triangular balconies are good
067but functionally uh a group of people in a triangular format may be difficult perhaps the door location could free up space and some other concerns mentioned include consider queuing space near the parking access entrance for cars an emphasis on accessibility and new improvements uh specifically a desire to see a a ramp on the east side and consider other possibilities for the low lower level Garden space than potentially just as amenities for units did I miss anything or um capture things uh the details correctly or is anything you would like to add uh or modify um I expressed a concern about the uh usability of the Triangular balconies um and marks clarification that experience with other buildings um uh certainly experience uh counts for a lot and uh the fact that they uh uh see no
068problems with that in other locations um that's sort of reassuring or some somewhat assuring to me that the Triangular balcony issue is not a problem for me and therefore I don't see any reason to include it in the notes which is a long way of saying that uh it's not there and I don't think it should be there board member Singleton you also mentioned the Triangular balconies yeah I was simply saying that the location of the door within those balconies could be considered to provide more usability of the space yeah you have your hand up I I do the in in spirit of Hank's comment the section in the guidelines related to parking and driveways I talked about the curve extension on Fourth hav and and we may want to reduce that to cre queuing
069space and U circulation space as one person's waiting to get into the parking Turn Style and someone is coming out I think there there may be some long Waits on Fourth hav that could create issues so it'd be nice to have a curbside queuing space there and that that would come from our parking and driveway section of the guidelines thank you for that clarification any other comments okay Julia thank you for that thank you uh item G moving on to unfinished [Music] business uh there's nothing under that item is there anything that we need to uh talk about uh [Music] Communications various Communications to design review boards do we have any Communications um thought I looked at this I think your audio is not working Miss Alexander but we do not have communications thank you
070all right thank you uh now is our second uh section for public comment yes thank you um at this time no participants or attendees have their hands raised okay um I guess before we adjourn anybody got anything uh to talk about yeah Hank I was wondering if you could update us on our fate I'm I know we went to Planning Commission but I didn't see that meeting uh sure this will be several months away yet I can share if you'll bear with me just one moment I could look up the exact date if you're curious uh the topic was recently circulated uh with the Planning Commission at their working session that would have been the September 10th working session uh so if you're curious about the status of discussions that's the latest one that I
071know of those meeting minutes and also recording should be available uh through the city website and CTN resources um but it as it stands no formal uh language text Amendments have been forwarded or agenda once those are we will certainly let you know keep you apprised of any dates but I don't have a specific date when a text Amendment would go before the Planning Commission yet and then they would make a recommendation to city council so we will keep you updated but the September meeting was um presented by manager Leonard that's the update I have all right thank you and thanks everybody Lori I just notice you have your hand up again sorry I just wanted to note that I did listen on that meeting and will note that there was very little mention of
072the design review board there was a lot of ground to cover in the discussion around review periods and public input um there was one voice from the community that uh at the end of his minutes mentioned quickly by the way I think design report has value there was another um commissioner that um mentioned the same but it was maybe all of 15 seconds within the course of the meeting so just wanted to let those of you who weren't able to do that know that thank you thank you anybody else well thanks everybody for coming um and um we'll look forward to the uh email from staff uh so they can get it so we can look at it and then they can get out to the developers so uh if there's nothing further uh if
073I can have a motion to adjourn so moved moved by dick second second by Tamara all those in favor signify by saying I I thanks very much for coming everybody we're adjourned thank you for