001e e e 2024 meeting of the Anar renters renters commission the purpose of the renters commission is to advise the city council and the city administrator in manner matters affecting renters in the city the Anarbor renters commission is made up of voting members who are appointed by the mayor and approved by city council two non-voting city council Liaisons two nonvoting members is representing different landlord perspectives and a non- voting representative to the University of Michigan Student Legal Services to speak during any of the public comment opportunities you'll be able to speak through the webinar by um oh wait I think this is your part Sarah oh yeah that is my part um to speak during any of the public comment opportunities you will be able to speak through the webinar link or by phone depending
002on your method of access to this meeting for phone access please call 877 85352 47 and enter meeting ID 935 941 to be called on to speak callers must press star9 if listening by phone or use the raise a hand feature viewing through the web link you will then be called upon by a city staff person or by or by using the last three digits of their phone number Sarah you're muted oh City staff will indicate when callers have 30 seconds left of their 3 minute comment period after 3 minutes they will be placed on mute so we can proceed to the next speaker we will be moving on to roll call okay commissioner L's is absent commissioner Els is absent commissioner drwan present in an arbor thank you commissioner Ratcliffe I'm here in an
003arbor commissioner Chen is not here yet um s council member Rina here in an arbor and council member Harrison sent a message earlier saying that she had a family matter to attend to tonight and couldn't make it uh commissioner good not here commissioner pitz here Ann Arbor commissioner Le here in albian Michigan okay commissioner wood here Ann aror welcome thank you and commissioner is it Larson please tell me your last name I don't want to get it wrong it's Larsen okay commissioner Larsen I'm present in pawpaw Michigan welcome and commissioner Rosen hi I'm here in Ann Arbor thank you okay because we have two commi two new Commissioners um we're gonna go around and intoduce ourselves and share our perspectives of what we bring to the renters commission and why we decided to serve I'll
004go first um I've been AR renter in many cities um I was a heavy mover shall we say and coming back to an arbor and renting in an arbor I saw that there could be some improvements and I just want renters to to have what they what they need um commissioner wood thank you um after looking at um actually watching the last meeting held I realized oh gee I better prepare something so I'm G to read to you um first of all thank you for this opportunity to serve on the renders commission I first came to Anar aror in the late 70s as an MSU student for a summer job I liked it so much that I just kept coming back three times over the years until settling here with my daughter in 1995 I've
005been a runner of an arbor apartments in four different complexes two houses one condo one duplex and a senior high-rise squeezed in there years ago I also had a brief stint as an assistant manager of an apartment complex in the Detroit metro area as well as acquiring a completely unused realtor license however that summer of study at the real estate company was very educational my career was in nonprofit public health and safety and I emphasize nonprofit with an unplanned early retirement so I sit before you representing the lowincome senior population who needs affordable housing not the U ofm alumni retiree rolling rolling it in returning to their alma mater with the cash to get into bidding wars and jack up the price of real estate here that I witnessed over and over in the condo
006complex I rented in for seven years during that same time the seniors I knew of living in the apartment complex across the road were having to move out due to the skyrocketing rent when the condo I was renting sold I still had family here and wasn't ready to leave an arbor the Lesser apartment I moved to was now costing $500 more a month fortunately I live with someone who can pay most of that exorbitant rent which Rises annually so I bring you that perspective and the knowledge that public health and safety are going to be growing issues for renters especially for seniors and others with health issues increasing power outages and Rising summer temperatures do not go well together thank you thank you and welcome again thanks and we um you know we look forward
007to hearing more from you and your perspective thank you commissioner Lea yes hi um I am a seconde student at the University of Michigan and I live in dorms my first year but now like two-thirds of students I am moving off campus and I am renting a house with three other people and so I'm here to mostly provide the student perspective since Ann Arbor wouldn't be an arbor without University of Michigan and University of Michigan students and since that's such a part such a big part of the renting Community here in in Arbor and I'm also actually fairly new this is only my second meeting so you two aren't the only ones who are still figuring out the ropes thank you and it I think it's my SEC second third meeting is chair so we're
008all figuring out the ropes okay commissioner Larsen hi I uh I attended University of Michigan from 2011 to 2015 lived in three different apartments then I moved to Kazoo was also a renter there and I moved back to in Arbor in 2021 to operate my family's business downtown and in the fall of 2022 my apartment was deemed uninhabitable due to a water leak that was ignored and we had a pretty severe mold problem um so that was really my motivation for applying for the runners commission to try to prevent a situation like that from happening to other renters um yeah you know I mean my I think sixth unit in ant Arbor so I've seen a bit of variety in the rental housing so welcome and we look forward to your perspective and your input
009um I'll say the same thing that I said to commissioner Le in her first meeting which is feel free to Jump Right In you're you're here because your input is is welcomed and we need to hear what it is that you have to say okay thank you commissioner Rosen hi my name is Gail Rosen I have been living in Ann Arbor for 30 some years now I am have been for the last 15 years um the housing attorney at Student Legal Service and so I serve on the renters commission as a liaison between U ofm and the renters commission and like we shall bring the students P or at least hope to bring the students perspective thank you um Sarah who is substituting for Kristen tonight hi there um my name is Sarah lenise I
010am the deputy clerk um at for the city clerk's office um specifically elections and Outreach um I do I'm like the I like to call myself like the mega staff liaison I um help all of the staff Liaisons across all of our 64 boards um like with anything that they possibly need so today one of my staff leaon needed me so I'm here and we're appreciate you being here so we could hold the meeting tonight commissioner droman hi good evening yeah uh so I am one of two uh landlord Representatives on the uh on the on the commission here um but I started out as a renter uh when I was attending uh University of Michigan probably like most everyone else who attends the U um later I uh liked it well enough that we
011uh stayed around and along the way managed to uh acquire a couple of houses downtown uh one of which we rent and the other that we live in so uh very small landlord but uh uh have some uh some experience in that in that area and do represent uh all the the the folks who have maybe one house maybe two houses that they're uh trying to keep uh keep going so thank you all thank you commissioner pittz hi uh my name's Kimberly pit I live here in an arbor about 20 years and I do represent the perspective from the lowincome housing and I just wanted to be a part of the community and kind of help and understand you know about the renters and and the prices that kind of keep increasing and why people
012are moving um and just just different things that I can help with the community so I am happy to meet all you new people thank you for joining us thank you attorney Riser sorry hello my name is John Riser I'm an assistant City attorney um and I work with the renters commission I also work with the building department and Rental housing department um on rental housing complaints early leasing complaints um short-term rental complaints so I work with those folks as well welcome new members thank you and council member Rina yeah hi I am uh Travis Rina I am the council member from ward 3 here in an arbor um I have been one of the councila on Sur renters commission uh since it was created and uh in large part I think because I helped
013to spearhead creating it um recognizing that the majority of our residents here in an arbor are renters and needed more of a voice in our city government and so um I've been excited about some of the work that we've been able to do and are continuing to do together and just appreciate all of you for your service so thank you for continuing to serve thank you and normally at this time we would go over the approval of the agenda and the minutes but because we don't have Quorum we're just going to move on to the first public comment um Sarah uh yes I will read um this is an opportunity for members of the public to speak up for three minutes for phone access please call 877 853 5247 and enter meeting ID 935 941
014if you would like to address the renders commission press star n if listening by phone or use the raiseed hand feature if viewing through the web link I will select callers that have raised their hand during using the last three digits of your phone number or by name if available for those accessing through the web link you will hear automated announcement that the host is allowing you to speak when speaking please move to a quiet area mute any television or background sh so that we we we may hear you clearly you can say something like uh oh I'm sorry please say your name at the beginning of the comment if you feel comfortable doing so I see no one online so seeing no additional speakers I will close this section of public comment okay then
015we're GNA move on to um item number 7A which is the update on the junk fee ordinance um council member Rina or can you give us an update on that please or attorney Riser either way if you want me to start Travis I can or if you want to start whatever you want to do yeah I'm happy to take the lead John if you want me to and then feel free to jump in uh since you guys are working on drafting also but um yeah so this has been um something that we've been talking about for a while here I think started initially as a um conversation about how to address some of the non-refundable weight list fees that we're seeing throughout the community um and really through our conversations with attorney Riser um and
016his colleagues this has expanded a bit more into how we address um really all junk fees in renting um and so we were in the process of working on this um one of the things that uh we got an initial draft back from the attorney's office um council member Harrison and I have been reviewing it um I provided some additional feedback and I know that they're working to continue to incorporate that um some of the things that we are trying to address um are really uh so as I as I shared with chair Ratcliffe earlier today I think you know I I am somebody who believes in trying to achieve rent transparency as much as possible in our law um and so um you know acknowledging that the reality is that we don't control rent
017we don't have the ability to control rent and so landlords are ultimately going to charge what they're going to charge for occupying a residence or an apartment um but one of the things that I would like for us to get Terrain in are all of these kind of hidden fees or extra fees that really make it nearly impossible for renters to be shopping Apples to Apples in the marketplace um because you know if I'm making a calculation about how much I can afford to pay in rent and over here I'm looking at $1,000 a month and over here I'm looking at $1,200 a month and I say oh I'm going to go with $1,000 a month and then I get in and find out that they're actually like $350 a month in extra fees um
018it didn't end up being the right Financial Choice for me um so one I think we want to work on uh simply outright banning all pre-tenancy fees so um these fees that are essentially charging you for the right to look for an apartment um these these non-refundable weight list fees um we have been in conversations I I've shared um uh with a few folks um there's kind of been some back and forth on an application fee at all um I think we've kind of landed in a compromise Place acknowledging that there is a cost to an application of um of saying like if if someone charges an application fee that the city should maybe look at capping what that fee can be so that it's not a profit-making Endeavor but actually covering the administrative CL
019cost of applying um I have asked the attorneys to also look at making that refundable for folks that don't get an apartment um and my reasoning for that is because what I also think is a challenge and what I've heard cases of is particularly with some of these non-refundable fees where we have some predatory landlords who are choosing to take tons and tons and tons of applications when they know they don't have enough units to cover all of those applications um so trying to cut down on some of that unnecessary um fee Gathering uh as an addition source of profit um and then I am also trying to work with our attorneys to to crack down a little bit more on the actual tency fees themselves um themselves and so I think where we still
020have to have some conversation um is really around some of those you know if there if there is a cost of living in an apartment why isn't that just part of rent and baked into rent so again tenants can make that Apples to Apples comparison about what their cost will be but I think we have had some conversation about what about those things that are optional add-ons that aren't for every unit so um is a pet fee acceptable is a parking fee acceptable if you're reserving a parking space where not everyone it's not something that's made available to everyone those I think are still some of the conversations around kind of those optional add-ons um and where we need to figure out where we land on some of that um I would love feedback if
021people have it um but those are kind of some of the pieces we're still trying to work out so that we can get to a final draft here hopefully um in the next meeting or two of council uh commissioner Rosen did you guys talk at all about late fees as well we have spoken about late fees um I am um kind of in the camp of the federal legislation that we're trying to model this after which is um that a late fee is a junk fee and that um it should be if there is a late fee the I think the federal legislation requires that it be essentially a down payment towards the next month's rent um rather than uh a legitimate fee um I'm kind of of the Viewpoint that if somebody is not
022paying their rent on time regularly and it's um that becomes one of the reasons for non-renewal or something like that I I that's the way to address that I don't think you should be profiteering off of somebody who's struggling to pay rent um and so uh we have talked about it I I don't I would like to see junk fees or that labeled as one of the junk fees yeah okay yeah I mean I have to say from you know representing students I see stuff all over the map I mean generally the courts have found or seemed to find around $75 $100 is reasonable but you know I have tenants who are have tenants who you know their rent there might be like eight of them and their rent is $6,000 they're paying 5% late
023fee every time they're late I have another tenant who's um the landlords imposed a daily fee for you know it's $5 more every day she's late so at the very least some some sort of really low consistent figure but I you know if there's some cost associated with it but they are really the ones I'm seeing are really outrageous in terms of what landlords are requiring of people just made two sense yeah I I appreciate that and you know this is where I point back to both the the federal legislation we're looking at um that's addressing rental junk fees and also I believe what the White House the Biden White House has endorsed is considering late fees a junk fee that should be outlawed um yeah and that is the the position that I take
024as well and and I've got to say we're seeing and maybe you know Michelle you know as well from your experience but I mean I'm seeing a lot of additional fees now join the teny tenants are now being automatically enrolled in um oh what's it called it's some sort of credit rent credit thing where oh will automatically send your um your your payment record to credit reporting agencies but they have to pay in we've got students who have to pay valet TR service where they leave their trash outside and somebody comes into I mean there's just so many different fees added on that they can't opt out of um or even know I mean I realize I'm preaching to the choir here but you know or they're paying for insurance that they don't really even
025know what the it's not really clear what the insurance covers so it really has I mean I've watched it in the last you know I've been at Student Legal Services for 15 years I've just watched these fees pile on and there's more and more and it's frustrating to see how um how these impact students ability not just students but that's my you know that's my the people that I work with but students ability to Ford um housing in an arbor Micha sorry commissioner Le yeah I just want to add on to what Gail is talking about um personally I have like a $360 late fee if I have like 5 days late and then it just adds on after that and another I also get a $50 late no a $50 fee if I like
026provide a check that can't be cashed or it bounces or something like that which is another thing that I want to add on to be considered besides from just the late fee yeah thank you for that and I think um part of our conversation you know I I think originally there was some discussion trying to to list out fees and I think you know for me that becomes a little unwieldy and unrealistic I think because ultimately they'll change the name of it um and suddenly it's legal um or they'll modify it slightly and then suddenly it's not banned um and so yeah I I think that frankly I I am supportive of of getting rid of tency fees altogether and so um that's the conversation we're still having and I'm waiting to get back a
027new draft and um I think one of the things that uh I've tasked our attorneys with that are attorneys are just tasked with by the nature of their job is making sure that everything that we're doing we think will pass kind of the the smell test if this gets challenged in court and so I think that they're making sure that we're doing that in the best way that we can um so that so that whatever we pass ends up holding and actually providing protection commissioner dran yeah so I'm I just pulled up the uh what I think is the an an arbor standard lease and I think section four includes a section on late VES so if we think we're going to get rid of them uh we should probably remove that from the an
028arbor standard lease um just pointing that out um it's not it's not something I have a strong opinion on don't charge them but uh but I I do note that I think it's in the standard lease and I have a question too before I call on you um attorney Riser with the insurance um I don't know if you were talking about like just renters insurance because I do remember when we first moved back to Ann Arbor that my in my insurance broker had said that um they they had talked to students who had been basically just put onto uh renters insurance plans through their apartment complexes and they didn't know what it was what it meant um just that they were required to have it is that what you were talking about um commissioner Rosen
029yes because I don't I think or at least some of the students that I've talk to think that they're getting renters insurance through the landlord but really they're it's some sort of liability for insurance to cover the landlord and so there's been seems to be some confusion about what they're paying for because you when I've seen students who think they have the renters insurance and then when they need the renters insurance find out that's not what their coverage is for so I mean it varies obviously um by landlord and these tend to be more of the highrises the new high-rises in Ann Arbor that have these but you know we would I need to find out sort of what each different uh landlord or company what their process is okay and you muted yeah I
030yeah the note came up uh to piggy back off of that attorney Riser um what's the difference in terms of you know renters insurance and landlord Insurance like does landlord insurance cover anything within the unit that belongs to the renter is or how I guess I don't I don't know I have to see the document I I I'm familiar with renders insurance with a private company but is is like landlord Insurance something like an appliance company charges you uh a little bit more if something goes wrong I I I don't know yeah in in my experience oh sorry it looks like yeah commissioner Rosen may know a little bit more yeah go ahead I I was just going to say in my experience back when I was renting my understanding was kind of the the
031landlord's insurance policy would be covering their property um so the the structures themselves anything if they have if they provide appliances all those types of things they would be covered under the landlord's policy and then it would be your obligation to get renters insurance to cover your personal property within a unit um and so that's kind of what your insurance is meant to cover um it's a little surprising to me that there are landlords opting people into renters insurance policies because if I remember correctly when I was renting um and went with a private policy there was some level of kind of discussing what was in my apartment that I owned and kind of enumerating some of my property within it um and so um that's surprising to me but I guess I don't know
032how every policy is written so yeah I I've had I mean students or at least the students I've seen can opt into some of these policies but I think you're right they're like liability coverage for the landlord so that if the student does something that damages I don't know maybe there's a leak and it damages the property of the landlord then they're covered for that but they're not covered for their own you know if there was a leak or something and all their own P property personal property was damaged they wouldn't be covered but you know I that was that was one one situation that I saw I I I really could look into what each sort of different um apartment complex or the larger apartment complexes are offering you know because we want to
033try to make it less confusing for the students and so they know what they're signing up for yeah and that that also maybe strikes me as a separate thing for us to dig into because my guess is that that likely also wouldn't be covered as a fee if you're opting into an insurance policy um I don't like it may be charged the same way but my guess would be that it's maybe not the same uh but it's particularly odd to me also I mean like if that's the case commissioner Rosen like I it is concerning that especially if they don't have the option to opt out that tenants are essentially now paying for insurance for the landlord's property damages potentially so it seems but let me let me do a little bit of kind of
034looking into it before we come back again and I'll see what I can what I can find and report back on I would agree that that's probably I mean I think some landlords require some insurance and then say but we have this one and I just think you know we I just think it can be confusing so but let me try to get some information and I'll I'll report back next month or the month after we'll see thank you and I'm sorry it took so long attorney Riser was I know you had your hand up earlier no I was um just going to ask uh uh Mr drop when you say the standard anabor lease so and I I Googled that and I I see uh online leases for University Towers for Oxford for CMB
035for pmsi and they appear to be they don't appear to be that standard to me and I'm wondering is there some docu is that something the washon area Apartment Association puts out or what document are you referring to possibly I think there's a model lease uh for the University of Michigan as well as for the city of an arbor and I think that's what we use the city of an Arbor's version is what I'm I think I'm specifically referring to I can I can look into that and see if I can provide a link yeah could you provide that to Kristen vanderock or uh sure who'll get it to me yep let me let me have a look see if I can do that thanks okay does anyone else have any comments all right then
036we're going to move on to the next item on the agenda which is 7B the update on the appointments um I think as you can see right here we have commissioner wood and commissioner Larsen and so I believe this means that we have all of the voting members who are renters account um filled and we still have the Health and Human Services Advisory Board um not is it non- voting member available and the attorney um seat available is that is that correct or full otherwise I would have to check I thought we had one more voting seat available um let me double check on that really quick okay I always I think you have um one more voting seat available um my computer is going a Teensy bit slow two seconds and then I can
037tell you I think is that Robert's seat yes let's see yeah I think you have two available on my records I show that you have two voting seats available a non- voting hhsa rep and attorney renters Advocate available so you're showing that we have two renter seats available plus the HHS HH ASB Sab Sab and the attorney seat yes [Music] okay I know from a couple of meetings ago um people had wanted to have a discussion on just what the openings were and how soon we would get them filled um we were very lucky to be able to to get commissioner would Commissioners would and larities um in with a special vote of just one voted city council as opposed to the normal two votes because of how many members we were missing and the
038lack of Quorum that we were having Travis yeah I was just going to add to a little bit to that as well and to the the extent that folks here have people in their networks that they think might be good um for this body um please encourage them to apply we actually this is Citywide we need more people to apply for boards and commissions um we are really looking back as uh chair ratliffe can share like as we're looking back to fill some of these seats we're looking at applications that are sometimes months if not a year old because we hadn't had vacancies and now that we do we haven't had recent applicants um and so particularly for the attorney seat I don't believe that we've had a qualified attorney uh attendance Advocate position um
039and a new application since the commission was founded and we had two at the time obviously we filled that with former commissioner Ral for those of you who served with him um and since he has left um the the additional person that applied looks like a great candidate we've tried to reach out we have not heard back from her to see if she's still in interested um and so we're looking for an additional person in that capacity we haven't gotten an application um and we are looking back I think we' reached out um for one of the remaining seats we'd reached out to someone that I think we're waiting to hear back from and if we don't hear back I believe we did have a backup person that was a more recent applicant that we're
040going to move to um but again this is we'll continue to do Outreach um I know we the Council aison on all of these commissions are often trying to look for folks so that we provide kind of diverse perspectives on our bodies um I think we've got a pretty diverse group of perspectives here at this at this um commission but to the extent that folks have others in their networks that might be good please encourage them to apply thank you uh council member Rina um does anyone have any comments questions no then we're going to move on um next on the agenda is an update on the short-term rentals um earlier this summer the commission was interested in knowing how many licensed short-term rentals there are in the city and um attached to the agenda
041was an a spreadsheet of the short-term rentals did anyone have a chance to look at at that um or Sarah I don't know can you pull it up to the screen thanks um one thing that I noticed when I was looking at that is that some of the rent some of the short-term rentals that say that they've been renewed are the expert Iration there's an expiration date on the license um like the license has expired and so I'm not quite sure what that means um also we have I mean we have I think like under 500 there I think there's been under 500 I'd like to say short-term rental um rentals between ones that were um denied issued a rent into issued a license a license that was renewed or someone who let their license
042expire um some of some of them appear to be you know individuals who have maybe one or two short-term rentals others are some of the apartment complexes um that were believe approved by Council to have some of the units short-term rental as well um one of the um things that we were wanting to talk about was actually with rental Inspection Services because we had a question as to with the new software contract um kind of how enforcement was going to go if it was going to change I believe [Music] um I admit that I do not know much about the the process for the short-term rental license um John can you explain that a little bit more for our new members um yeah you there's a we have I'm pulling up the uh Municipal ordinance
043right now that talks about the application process so uh hang on a minute so as you can see there's about 14 pages right now uh C remember Rina yeah thanks um so I also wanted to just kind of add a little bit of additional background because this is something short-term rental uh enforcement is something that um came up on Council shortly after I joined um Council had taken before I joined Council Council had taken some action to regulate um and prohibit really short-term rentals in areas that are zoned residential um and so um I believe uh that we we had to go back and tweak the ordinance in large part because the city was going to get sued by existing short-term rentals for being an existing non-conforming use um the city had been issuing licenses
044to them as uh rental properties and as a result they' essentially been granted permission by the city to operate in those areas and so existing short-term rentals in residential areas were allowed to continue operating um as we adjusted the ordinance um new short-term rentals should not be getting approved to my knowledge in residentially zoned areas of the city um there are some as uh chair rlif noted uh there are a couple of uh exceptions to that as as we have approved some um new housing complexes where we're ultimately going to get a and I remember one specifically so um uh the um I'm going to blank on the name of it now but essentially the new um proposed development that's U planned to go in over by venue by the golf course area um as
045part of the um rezoning request there was a a request that some of the units in that be reserved for short-term rental use um and Council ultimately kind of weighed that and agreed to accept it because at the end of the day the net gain of housing was considerable considerably more than what was currently there and so um there seemed to be some demonstrated need for some short-term rentals in the area and because we were going to get more housing that was approved but in in a normal circumstance someone could not like turn a a current house into a short-term rental that would be against local ordinance um and John maybe you can add I know to your original question about like what expired means on here my understanding was if I'm remembering correctly from
046our conversations at the time was of those um uh short-term rentals that were kind of uh allowed to continue operating as non-conforming uses within the current Zone they would be able to continue doing that until they let their licenses expire um which point they may no longer be allowed to continue operating as a short-term rental in that residential zoned area and so that may be what that's showing here but I'm not 100% sure if that's what that is or not I'm just trying to look at the uh we have a a really good uh website the in there's a short-term rental guide that talks about it um so rosanita I don't know if you have a kind of a general question um have you been to the short-term rental um page I have UMD I
047was just trying to remember some of the questions that people had had before um but I think two of the people who had more of the questions about the short-term rentals aren't here tonight um gosh I'm trying to think I mean as of right now for me I think my the questions that I have I think are more probably for building for like rental Inspection Services but um if say I own a property that's currently a short-term rental um here in a residential area and then I sell that property does the license then go to the new owner that that's generally how zoning works is that it runs with the land yeah yeah and and yes yes that is correct it was it was a big part of our discussion um but ultimately because of
048the way because this is written into zoning we couldn't modif it cuz one one of the challenges was um essentially by you know allowing those existing rent short-term rentals to continue operating in perpetuity really um you were almost creating kind of a monopoly in those zones um I think both the tradeoff of the potential we would likely have lost a lawsuit had they challenged us but also because um other short so an owner occupied location can do short-term rentals um so you know I could have a short-term rental here in my house because it's owner occupied because I'm ultimately the the family living here um but also because short-term rentals could hypothetically pop up in other zoned areas of the city um that it wasn't necessarily a true Monopoly in that sense and for the
049tc1 zoning will short-term rentals be allowed within that new zoning because it's technically not residential I I would have to get back to you on that I'll have to check okay thank you commissioner wood um as I was uh reviewing the video from the last meeting um it was mentioned that CHR mentioned that there was a new um guided to short-term rental something or other sounded like it was um you know a booklet or a PDF or something that um you know we could read and better understand from she said she would send it out so has anybody seen that do do you know what I'm referring to yes I'm looking at it right now it's called the guide to short-term rentals and it is a PDF file on the city's website and you can
050Google and Arbor short-term rental guide to short-term rentals and it talks about what a short-term rental is what types are permitted uh whether nonprincipal residents or principal residents and there's two kinds of principal residents a homay um where it's kind of like a bed and breakfast where somebody stays in your basement and you're there as well and there's also a whole house where you have a house and you move out for up to 30 days um and then somebody comes in um those can be a problem for Neighbors because there are people who own houses and they just kind of move out and let these short-term rental tenants kind of come in and then it can create you know issues with the trash and noise and things like that um then there's sometimes one of
051the issues that comes up is whether someone really resides there or not you'll have someone who owns a few houses and they'll have one that's their principal residents but they don't spend much time there and their and the tenants do um that's often the most expensive house that's their principal residence and um they'll stay somewhere else and another one of the issues with uh that we see with short-term rentals is um how many people are allowed to how many guests are allowed to stay and they kind of pack them in um so there's you know in addition to the um policy question of whether short-term rentals take off housing that would otherwise be available for long-term tenants there's the um nuisance is the right word but the there are the issues that come up when
052you have a essentially a hotel with 20 people staying there most weekends in a residential neighborhood um my understanding from the meeting was that the that this guide also has attached to it the applic and there was a discussion about how um how that was going to be communicated to the public so that people have a better idea of what's going on here you know in an arbor that there is this um special ordinance for this particular situation in the hopes that wasn't there some discussion about um in the the hopes that um people would decide to not try to pursue that and become more long-term rentals and I I think that partly had to do with enforcement um is to you know if they're operating when illegally to try to get to talk to
053them about the merits of being having a long-term rental versus the short-term rental um and the like app the application or front-facing information part of that um I think we're talking about maybe like a complaint process or something and part of that has to do with talking with um the rental Inspection Services um and or Building Services Department where we're trying to get them to come to our um meeting I think in October September octob I think October um just to SEC though uh Sarah uh commissioner Chen is here as one of the as the attendee if you can let her in um sorry about that she's been waiting in in there so I think is that what you were talking about commissioner wood well I just I remember there was quite a bit of
054discussion about this and uh and several people seemed to feel that there was a a need to better educate the public and wasn't that like tabled to a education committee or something the tenant education committee um where we didn't we couldn't find a time for everyone to meet so later on today's schedule I was just going to make another announcement that I would send I'm going to send out another is it when to when to meet um trying to get it so that we can have another tenant education committee meeting because those those aren't a set day in time it's more when necessary and when people can give up like in the extra hour of their time I understand thank you so just to to follow up with that then uh so you're still thinking
055about being proactive with this with providing okay if if you need any help let me know well you'll you'll uh get the email with the when to meet um okay availability time and hopefully because I try our best to get the time where like everyone has said that they can meet right I know it's hurting cats yeah okay thank you you're welcome council member Rina thanks yeah so I guess I just had a question more for the body and I think I may have missed the last meeting when some of these questions might have initially gotten asked um is there I guess what is the um the where where is the interest in short-term rental coming from in that is there something that you're hoping to potentially recommend from a policy perspective are you hoping
056to just be better educated on existing policy um I ask these questions because I wonder if maybe they're other than attorney Riser if there's maybe somebody from planning who could come and provide and update or answer questions who might be better in terms of Staff expertise and I know that I could also refresh my myself because it's been several years now since we worked on this at the council table um and it's not something that I work with daytoday because it's just not something that comes up normally and so I guess I'm wondering from from the renters commission perspective um what are some of the goals in having these conversations is it is it just to educate the public more um I guess yeah it's multiple goals one is to educate ourselves um as well
057as the public public um because there does seem to be a lot of confusion about the short-term rentals the you know are they allowed are are new ones allowed are new ones not allowed what's the application process like how if you do find one that's running illegally and in your neighborhood then or next door then how do you report that one right um and then also it was like was it several months ago the council had approved in the budget paying for um a program that was supposed to I guess estimate um or better estimate how many short-term rentals were operating in the area including ones that are not licensed and so since we were curious so we were also kind of curious about how that was going to work um which is why Kristen
058was in was in contact with building um and Rental Inspection Services to um have them give kind of a presentation to us in a few months we knew that there was a lot going on within the department right now and so I I really want to say that we were looking at October um partly because of the green rental ordinance also so we were thinking having Building Inspection Services come after that okay that that's helpful thanks and uh yeah I think getting Gathering some questions ahead of time that they can come prepared to address as part of their presentation could be really helpful as well to make sure that they're covering the topics you want them to cover um and I will follow up with Kristen also um to make sure that just someone from
059rental Inspection Services is the best person because from a kind of like where are these allowed are we allowing them in the future perspective it might be important to have somebody from kind of the planning department there as well okay thank you um see John I I saw your hand earlier you know my question is like educating the public from what perspective how to open your own uh short-term rental you know what happens if there's a problem problematic one next door to you how do they work generally what's allowed in a residential district so like a series of questions could really help uh formulate a PowerPoint presentation that probably Pete uh provided uh you know he gets the green light from Alicia and everyone and I could help them put a PowerPoint together on how
060they work there really are three good documents on the short-term rental um there there's the guide to short-term rental there's the Complaint Form which is there are boxes on that Complaint Form that are kind of summarizes where you can go Ry on these and and there's also the sworn statement of principal residency which has been changed and tightened up which kind of spells out some of the criteria on what you can do and what you pledge to follow um by way of the maximum occupancy the there's no magic number on how how many people can be in these because it's one or more persons related by blood marriage or adoption so you could have a ginormous family in a residential uh and then uh after they're gone you know over the weekend and the complaint
061comes in we have to prove that the people were that were there were or weren't uh related or you could have four persons plus their offic spring their descendants and their children so you could have a family reunion in a principal residence um old house where the owner moves out and this family reunion comes in um and and then you've got a whole bunch of folks there so questions sent to uh Kristen Vander that would help form I think a a presentation that's just my thoughts on that thank you and that was you know again one of the reasons why we wanted to have the tenant education committee meeting was to be able to come up with some of those questions um council member Rina yes just circling back to answer the question that was
062asked earlier um short-term rentals will not be allowed in tc1 zones um I did not think they would be but I wanted to confirm that before giving the answer and they are not permitted in that zoning use okay thank thank you um is there anything else on discussion about the short-term rentals okay then we'll close that out and um is it now that we have commissioner Chen can we go back up to approving the agenda and the minutes sure of would love to yeah I I think uh we'll have to Grant ourselves a little leniency here in terms of following the because we didn't have Quorum I think we can go back to the top of the agenda and just kind of uh start up there with Quorum now officially calling the meeting to order
063sorry I do have a lot of things to take care of this days but almost done I'm very happy very happy and thanks for everybody and everything thank you okay well then we're going to take a brief moment and go back to the item number four which is the approval of the agenda is there a motion to approve the agenda as presented I'll make the motion I'll be second I'll be second okay so the motion was made by commissioner wood and seconded by uh commissioner Chen sorry sorry I thought I had to yawn um the agenda is now open to either be approved as presented or open to be amended a motion okay well all those in favor of the agenda as presented please unmute yourself and say I I I all those opposed say
064nay okay great the agenda is now approved although we're almost through and um next is the approval of the minutes from our June 20th meeting um do we have a motion to approve the minutes a motion uh motion by commissioner Chen is there a second I don't think I can technically second so commissioner quiet okay commissioner pittz can you second please second thank you all those in favor of approving the minutes from the June 20th 2024 meeting please say I I I I all those opposed say nay all right the minutes are approved and we're going to move ourselves back down the agenda um for new business we were going to have a discussion with council member gazi Edwin on about an affordable rental housing site but that had to be postponed um and so
065next on the agenda is a discussion about tabling at the green Fair um believe the green fair is September is it September 20th Sarah do you okay it is oops and is it 5 to 8 it is okay September 20th 5 to8 um normally the renters commission has a table at the green fair with information about the renters commission um I think we also give even though it's the green Fair like give out the booklet or have the website that has the um tenant and landlord uh booklet that you're supposed to get um and we need I think at least two people to table that e [Music] um are there any volunteers I really will love to go but I will not be back until 6:30 to michion so um I'm sorry okay and the
066green fair is downtown near the campus area if that helps anyone I think I'll be a a I should be free too okay great um then can we put you both down thank you and commissioner pits yeah did you say the 20th yes September 20th uh Friday yeah I can help out as well okay great um wait a minute September 20th right right September 20th from 5 to yeah I'll be there I could be there too I could be there too if if if anybody if nobody's there I could be there if anybody could go uh then then if you need anybody at that time let me know I I would love to I'm sorry sorry I made a mistake okay well we'll give the for your the four names to Kristen um for when
067she's back and coordinate from there it might be where you don't have to be the whole the whole time since there's four of you could like you know maybe doing shifts or something because the green Fair itself is pretty fun and interesting to attend so if you did want to be able to get up it'd be something that maybe we could arrange but thank you all for for volunteering um next sorry Rosita I will also say that um both Kristen and I will be in attendance and so you won't be alone and we will help bring any supplies that you may need um and yeah you can come into shifts or whatever it's a pretty good time it's a really really great time to talk to folks and to have that one-on-one conversation with a
068lot of people I highly recommend it thank you Sarah okay and moving on is the planning for the next tenant Education meeting um like I said I'll be sending out a wi to meet about that so we can come up with some of the questions if you can't make the meeting um then you know emailing questions I to talk about I don't think would uh be in violation of the open meetings act because we won't be discussing those questions until the actual tenant Education meeting was and then next is the plan for the September 19th renters Commission meeting um I believe next month we we think we had an invitation out to um OSI and Dr or Dr stz um about the green rental ordinance that they're um that's I think completed or almost complete
069that he wanted to do a presentation to the renters commission for that and um so that was the the big thing for that meeting um it may also be where um council member gazi Edwin is ready to present about the um affordable rental housing website as well Council M Rina thanks I do want to caution unless it's possible that she'll have somebody from her office do this um I believe that our next renters commission meeting will be during um the delegation visit from our sister city tuban and I know that Dr staltz is leading that uh visit and so she may not be available during our our next renters commission meeting it may be someone from her office okay okay um because I I don't think it I don't think it was her specifically because
070and and that make that makes total sense I just wanted to to warn that she may not she will be uh playing playing host to all of our wonderful guests from our sister city all right thank you council member oops um is there anything else that people like to see on the agenda for September I also think at that time we may have an update another update on the the junk fees because that is something that we continue to ask every meeting um as well okay if you oh council member Rina sorry I'm talking a lot during this meeting um yes I think we will absolutely be able to give an another update um it is my hope that the update will be that it has been introduced at Council and so although I recognize
071that that is putting a lot of work on uh our incredible attorney down in the corner on my screen and so um so but he uh I know that they are they're working diligently to get us to the finish line um the other thing I was going to save this for my Council update but it may be something to discuss at the next meeting I just don't have enough details yet um we once again had someone actually come to our last council meeting and caught uh council member Briggs at the end of the meeting um I have not gotten an update from her yet uh other than it was another one of the residents of Courthouse Square um which continues to be a really problematic apartment complex a very predatory apartment complex and frankly just
072not in condition that should be um so we are discussing um I'm I'm going to be talking to council member Briggs about what the content of that was I know that we have tried to uh address issues with Courthouse Square before um it may be an Enforcement issue for the city it may not be something worth discussing at this table because it may not be like a policy item or anything that needs to be addressed um but it may be something that I could even provide an update on once I just have more information I just want you guys to be aware that cour Courthouse Square uh unfortunately continues to be um enough of a problem that residents are coming to our Council meetings just asking for help um and so um I know that
073it's been a topic for this body before so I just wanted to keep you informed if you're not aware Courthouse Square is senior apartments and is it it's lowincome senior apartments right that um is it section is it somehow I don't know if the is license the right term through um the ahc like is there a relationship between the two I know that we don't that the city doesn't run it um I do not believe so because I don't believe it would continue to be I would have to check on that that there's no relationship um but I know that it is privately oper owned and operated so um because that that's one of the challenges is the um the owner is not local um and I believe they hire a local property manager um
074from a city within 50 miles which is what the law requires um but they're not local local either um and so um but I I don't believe that there's a formal relationship no okay I I think they're on like the second manager from since when I started the on the renters commission and we've we've received a lot of complaints from different residents about the the living conditions and the safety of living within um that particular complex um unfortunately as the renters commission it's not really written into our bylaws that we have any sort of enforcement um capabilities and we tend to just do a lot of information and referral services because of that um but I do Wonder at in this become part part becomes part of the enforcement question that commissioner good has uh
075brought up at several meetings is which is at what point does the ability to like to operate an apartment complex within the city actually get taken away council member Regina yeah I think that's a valid question and one that we're probably not going to be able to answer on here unless I think that that's a conversation we'll have to continue having with how we're currently enforcing and maybe if we need to make changes to that um I did just look up and I know that one of the issues we've dealt with last time um was um rent some pretty substantial surprise rent increases and what was meant to be affordable um and the reference then is that Misha is responsible for making sure that they're compliant with their affordable housing component um and so um
076I believe they're the ones that are actually ensuring that they remain affordable rather than the Housing Commission locally okay um not necessarily with Courthouse Square but just in general if it's if it's something that is the responsib ility of mishta uh to enforce then when we do get a complaint is that something that Kristen should be telling them that you need to contact Misha here's their contact information um it likely depends on the nature of the complaint my guess is that the city would probably still be best to communicate that if we feel so I I would still suggest that folks file formal complaints with the city it's always better for the city to be aware of what's going on within the city and then if they need to get State authorities involved um or
077or if officials within the city advise that the individual contact but my guess is that we would get Misha involved if that became the case um but again I don't know if the newest complaint is related to the affordability or if it's related to conditions or if it's related to I know I've heard before about kind of extreme heat in some of the apartments um that c air circulation is happening things like it is it's not a great property from the tenants perspective and so there are a number of problems there right commissioner wood uh that was the um senior highrise that I mentioned I lived in and it was in bad shape 10 years ago but at that and at that time um there's a there's a committee it's like I forget the name
078of the committee but it's um a Committee of city council just for the downtown region and they were very at that time they were very interested in hearing from me what was going on at at courthouse so if there's anything that um the city can do maybe the two committees could talk about how that problem because it's a big problem there's a lot of drug use there it's you know it's not a good place to live was that the DDA yes thank you I don't think that we actually I don't know if we've referred anyone to the DVA about that I know that John Riser has gone and check things out before with some of the complaints as well um council member Rina is is the DDA another Avenue I would be surprised by that
079okay yeah that that's not generally within the scope of what the DDA is managing um although I mean it it could have simply been at the time that it it was such a problem that they were hearing about it as well that they got involved um but but yeah that's not generally something that the DDA would manage okay and what about the Human Rights Commission um the the Human Rights Commission or the Human Rights Commission is largely charged with um kind of enforcement and oversight of our non-discrimination ordinance and so again depending on the nature of the complaint um recommending a followup with with filing a complaint with them um uh that is not something that I that's not an angle that I have heard yet from any of the tenants um they've more been
080kind of living conditions and price problems um but I will dig in with council member Briggs on what the the newest issue is we'll also probably pull in I think it may be in W one and so um council member Harrison and council member dish actually represent the area and I know that they got involved last time and so um so I'll make sure that that they're looped in as well okay thank you is there anyone else who has a comment on the topic if not we'll go on to the next item on the agenda okay next on the agenda is the report from city council I think you guys have all heard from me enough tonight right I I don't know that I have anything new to add unless there are any questions about
081um ongoing things at city council um but I I think I've kind of given you the the big update of the thing we're working towards that's specifically related um which is kind of this junk fee ordinance um and hoping that we'll be able to get something to the table here relatively soon um the benefit of it taking us a little bit longer to review and and get the drafts to to where we want them to be is that um hypothetically students will be back when this is getting passed and so hopefully that increases the awareness um if if It ultimately does get passed by Council because I think um a lot of the activism we've seen particularly around the wait list fees have come from students because they're the ones who have been targeted so
082we want to make sure that there is widespread awareness so that if if this passes I'm hopeful that it will um that uh that they'll be able to be aware that it happened and start filing complaints when it's in effect when's the next city council meeting the next city council meeting is Monday but um the one after that then the first and third Monday in September okay thanks okay um next is the report from hhsb um our commissioner who normally attends that meeting isn't there I feel like they're off for the summer um and so we'll move on to next on the agenda which is the report from the staff liaison um Sarah did Kristen leave anything to report on she didn't she just is sad she's not here she deserves a vacation especially after
083the El getting everything doing everything for the primaries for sure um okay we're on to the second general public comment okay um this is the second opportunity for members of the public to speak for up to 3 minutes if you would like to address the renters commission press star n if listening by phone or use the raised hand feature if viewing through the web link I will select callers that have raised their hand using the last three digits of your phone number or by the name uh available you will hear automated announcement that the host is allowing you to speak when speaking please move to a quiet area mute any television or background sound so that we may that way we may hear you clearly the meeting ID is 8194 1 I don't see anybody
084waiting in the wings so I will close this section of public comment okay the last item on the agenda before adjournment is the communications that we've received we received is it one two three communications um can you show the the communications please Sarah [Music] thank you the the first one um was about Courthouse Square Apartments and the rent increase um which part of it is that we just um talked about um I don't know if there's been anything else since then but I know that Kristen's really good about attaching whatever is new to the agenda there's been nothing I um have been watching all day okay all right and the next one um had to do with Lockwood Apartments um which is I believe they were were referred to the is it anabor Housing Commission
085or somewhere else I believe it was the Housing Commission that they were referred to right okay and then the last one um was was a a senior um whose neighbor makes thumping noises at night um the office manager says that there's nothing that they can do the person's family um I think says that he should be an assistant living but it's living is extremely expensive um and a lot of people can't afford that we did recommend um a couple of nonprofits in the area when I first heard it I didn't rec I didn't um it didn't click that the person had dementia and so we first um recommended what was it the disability network of Washam Monroe and Linway County I I hope I got that right um and then right before Kristen went on
086vacation um when I reread the letter I suggested um as a resource possibly Jewish Family Services the agways which is forly the Area Agency on Aging um because both of them do provide some sort of respit hours but they also have like kind of almost Case Management Services which may be helpful to the family of the neighbor um does anyone have any questions or comments about the communications see oh council member Rina this is adjacent to the Lockwood uh email we got um for those who aren't aware um Lockwood is uh senior housing that will have a considerable number of units of affordable senior housing within it um it's opening here in my Ward ward 3 um officially next month and I will make sure to share around with Kristen um because I believe it's
087public it's advertised on the chambers website um but they are having a uh public ribbon cutting and open house and so if anyone is interested in actually attending and seeing the the new Lockwood senior apartments being opened up um I'll make sure to share that out but um I think that's why we're starting to hear from this hopefully it sounds like some folks were able to secure some affordable senior housing there and um and we'll be moving in very soon that's good to know is that the one that they're building around the Bryant area over off of like it off of ellworth elworth yep oh that's that's great because it means that some people able to move from Courthouse over there yeah yeah it's uh I think it's uh 65 of the the units in
088are designated to be affordable for at least the next 99 years or something so um so yeah it's uh we're very excited to see that finally get open oh good okay well if there aren't any more questions or comments then we'll move to adjournment and we need someone to move to adjourn I mean we can stay here all night but I'm sure somebody has something better to do commissioner can I can I just speak up y I move to adjourn thank you commissioner wood is moved to adjourn is there anyone who's going to second that than commissioner Chen has seconded the motion to adjourn all those in favor please unmute and say I I hi hi all those opposed say nay the meeting's officially adjourned before you go I just want to say welcome again
089to our newest Commissioners and if you have any questions or concerns please