001e e e call to order the regular bilding board appeals meeting for Thursday August 15 2024 can we have a roll call please Paul darling here Robert Hart here Kevin Cox here David arnsdorf here Hugh Flack is absent for City staff Mike Lemieux here Michael Redmond here John Riser present myself Deborah Williams and Juliet Harvey here we have a quorum all right thank you next item on the agenda is public commentary seeing no one in person is no one virtually for public commentary either okay we'll close the public commentary portion next item is approval the agenda can we have a motion to approve that with the request we had I move to approve the agenda second with uh flipping with the cave flipping okay yes those in favor I I I passes next item of
002the agenda is the approval of the minutes from the looks like the March 21st meeting is there any comments on those minutes comments your adjustments are correct s can we have a motion to approve those motion to approve second those in favor I those are [Applause] approved the next item in the agenda is appeals actions and show cost hearings the first one we're going to address is BBA 24005 appeal 2227 Medford drive and Arbor and uh do we have an applicant on virtually for that yes I'm here my name is Elizabeth Campbell I'm the homeowner okay thank you so um the process is typically we have you present your or we we have the staff present their report on the on the uh on the varians and then we'll have you present your um request
003for appeal the board will um review the appeal and ask you questions and then um the staff may counter those discussions or questions about the presentation and then we'll make a motion so uh the first part will be uh staff making their um request or report so the property at 227 Medford is a single family um house it was built in 1957 uh building permit was issued 52824 for work described as basement framing at plan review it was noted on the approved site copy of the plan that the applicant stated ceiling projection to be greater than 6 ft for finish to finish and all proposed doors would be 80 in in height on five uh that was confirmed by Rick Foley uh city of Van Arbor plan reviewer um if it had been indicated that
004the ceiling would finish below 6' 4 in Allowed by appendix J of the 2015 Michigan residential code this permit would not have been approved or issued uh the plan reviewer uh was given inaccurate information and upon rough inspection it was noted that the existing duct work is below the required ceiling height staff recommends this application be denied as it doesn't meet the standards for approval the code is has not been misinterpreted the provisions of the code do apply and the existing condition is less safe than the minimum requirement of the 2015 Michigan residential code section AJ 61.4 uh ceiling Heights uh uh essentially what that section says is that um in an existing basement that's being converted to habitable space you need a minimum of 6' 8 in from the floor to the ceiling except
005that you can uh reduce that to 6'4 in under obstructions um the basis for this appeal is that the provisions of the code do not apply section G24 um that's not the [Applause] proper so that's where that ends that the appeal if you that number up um so this appeal doesn't meet the standards of approval the violations uh documented do not meet the requirements of the 2015 Michigan residential code and has not been misinterpreted the provisions of the 2015 code do apply and the reduction in ceiling height is less safe than the requirements of the code all right thank you so the can I will say the last sheet on the packet um is the the uh approved plan okay uh with the notes made by the plan reviewer okay and do we know what
006the height below the duct work is uh I believe it was stated that it's 6'2 in all right okay so we can have the applicant make their presentation now um I would like to point out that the three ways that we can grant a variances that the code doesn't apply that the code has been misinterpreted or you're providing an alter fer construction so if you could state in your presentation of which one of those three that you're seeking a variance on that would be helpful yes I'd be happy too uh my name is Elizabeth Campbell I'm the home owner home owner uh so we're doing it on uh basis number three improved construction so uh we I believe my contractor was simply unaware of the six4 requirement uh and when the um as soon as
007the inspector informed us of it we immediately called two different HVAC providers to come out and quot us to make it compliant with 6' 4 in the issue is is that the overall volume of the duct work would need to be changed and it would require a full basically we would have to reduct the entire home uh to get the proper volume by removing the two inches that we have on the um depth uh to the width and both HVAC providers explained to us that they would have to have specially cut laser cut duct work in order to make it a 6 inch or 2in uh reduced depth for the duct work and that the cost of that alone would be $12,500 that doesn't account for um the additional cost to then add vents for
008the basement as we were trying to do it um and it's two it's 2 in away from the 6'4 in uh requirement we have been living like this with this duct work without an issue for the last since we bought the house it's been this way um and we simply can't complete the basement with the additional cost of a minimum of $122,500 so the basement will sit half completed half framed half drywalled um because we at this point and and we wouldn't be able to finish it I I noted in the housing code I realize this is building code but in the housing code it specifically says they won't Grant variances under six feet um so there seems to be some understanding that in some instances habitable basement space may have a clearance between 6
009feet and 6'4 in I realize that's not the building code it's a different code but I did note that uh so as it stands we're just going to be stuck with a partially finished basement um until I don't know when because of the unexpected $12,500 cost for duct work that we have been living with like this for the last 11 years uh my husband is also here Mr Bas I don't know if he wants to add anything to my statement yes thank you Miss Campbell um you know I would just say I you know we're not building new space here uh we're just finishing the basement that we've been living with for more than a decade um this this duct work hasn't been a danger I you know I haven't hit my head on it
010uh and I understand the intention of the code is to uh increase safety but we haven't had a safety issue at all in the in the decade that we've had to uh live with that duct so uh it it just seems like this is a situation where uh a fairly reasonable accommodation could be reached to allow us to finish this project uh especially since we're not building anything new we're just finishing existing space okay okay thank you for your presentation any kind of rebor for that yeah I just want to say that um appendix J of the residential code is specifically written for existing basements that's taken into consideration and it's a reduced height from what uh the 2015 Michigan um building code other sections would require um so the code in the code they've
011already given a reduction for an understanding that sometimes uh basements won't meet the requirements of new construction um so the allowances were made down to 6' 4 in okay thank you any questions from the app from the board to the applicant yeah I have one um are you going to was your intent to create framing around the existing duct work no we're not uh we're not going to lower the height at all okay no so there's no we're essentially just going to leave the duck work exposed as it is right now okay and I see there was an erress when but I don't see in the plan where that is as far as the head room it's there okay and where's the stairway here and the duct work is here so you window is on
012the other side of the basement so that it's far away from the e window it's it's on the South Wall uh and that's already been inspected and improved so it looks like the walk underneath the duck work the only space you're going to is an unfinished storage room and whatever the whatever is to the east of that that space what is that use to that space um that's just storage um it's not livable you know the this the space where people are going to be is the the main area you see out uh uh that where the stairs lead to that's going to be the kids play area that's Al to code the the uh bathroom that's being put in that's Al to code and uh uh office/bedroom uh that's ala code so the only
013time this would be an issue is when you know we're you know walking to use the um the storage area and there's a smoke detection on both sides of that Dr work as far as part of the reason for headro is partially vol for smoke to develop in the fire and stuff for you to get out safely so with that being lower smoke would kind of collect on each side of that I assume there detector inside there but I don't know you know what that configuration is is that's looking at additional detectors potentially to help offsite that difference in Headroom that's no problem we'd be happy to put up as many smoke detectors as you want I have a question this this was like this when you guys purchased the house yes so it was
014an existing condition from the original building yes um and you guys are just trying to remodel it and this was an existing thing yes correct and we're not we're not talking about modifying it at all I mean again we tried to modify it to meet the standard but the cost is the cost so all we're doing is literally leaving it the exact same way that it has been for the last years but we are finishing the rest of the basement but the duct work is not going to be there's going to be no additional framing or uh nothing added to the duck you're not adding volume you're not putting registers in you're not tapping to it and we'll be adding vents through the bedroom area um but that duck work actually meet co uh the
015the the sections that are I think my lovely wife is losing her reception here there's no there's gonna be no changes to the duck workor in question okay okay we got so the the other duct work that's needed for the basement and the bedroom Taps into the line at a different point uh so the HVAC specialist stole is that wouldn't uh affect the overall volume mhm and are all these walls down here new or some of these things existing in some new there an unfinished Bas basically now and you're adding all the walls and the bathroom or what's what's what is the scope the wall um that separates the bathroom and the storage area is existing um and then the the wall that comes that runs east to west um there was a wall there
016uh that zigzagged a little bit uh so we've replaced that with a straight wall across and then the bathroom wall is new does the duct that's closest to the structural post does that run into the bathroom at that height um below the wall maybe it I I don't know if you guys can hear me it does go into the bathroom above where the vanity will be placed and how about over the water closet uh no it uh it jogs so it it does a dog leg left uh and uh goes back into the utility room you wor about hideing over the fixtures mhm is that an issue M um I don't know where the locations of the measurement are just that it's below the minimum of the code so this is 62 the beam might
017be 64 possible that could be 2 in but hard to say no no the duck going over the beam is 64 the bottom of the beam is 64 no no the the duck if it extends into the bathroom over the lavatory at 62 is that an issue that I I I don't probably the whole basement probably the 62 is for the whole okay yeah the yeah the inspector noted that it didn't meet the minimum requirement more than one spot it's probably the whole whole one that yeah it's just there are two lines uh the one is the kind of Main North South I don't know if this is the right word I'm a grant writer not a HV guy but the main trunk uh that runs north south and then there's a return uh that
018next to it that is also below but most of the duct work work uh in the basement other than that is um up within the uh joas yeah okay yeah so so the the square footage in the basement that's actually underneath the sort of offending dock work is only 203 square feet it's just these two sort of lines uh and then as I indicated it does extend it that that work does extend into the bathroom over the vanity only so the vanity is below that um duct work but it's not over the um toilet okay okay the only reason I asked is because if a motion is made to approve your variance I want to make sure that it there isn't another hidden problem that's going to come back I I deeply understand totally agree
019yeah I I want to make sure that we cover our bases so if there's an objection to fixtures I you know we would have motion for a variance for that as [Music] well any other questions by the board to the applicant and they don't need to have an eess window right out of the bedroom or or a separate ESS window erress needs to be at the bedroom this is the bedroom here or this is the bed it's laund room okay all right so it's good for that okay and the headro has to be in all habitable spaces is that correct it is yes or all spaces so is the volume habitable well that um it's occup it's habit it's it's the 6' 8 and the 6'4 is for habitable space yeah that would would need
020to be in the in the lawn in the mechanical room or potentially the laundry room right right so the real meain focus is between the stairway and the bathroom the bathroom bedroom those two spaces would so um looks like we're working on a mo potential motion here it looks like yes okay oh picked up the wrong onean copy no [Applause] B appealed or denied which one I had to do a cut okay all right I mve that in the case of BBA 24-5 the appeal of the building official's decision that the locate oops oop I'm sorry the same one sorry sorry sorry one moment this on the back yeah is there a motion in that one yeah thank you starting over I moved it in the case of BBA 24-5 the appeal of the building
021officials decision that the ceiling height must be a minimum 6'4 Ines under obstructions at 2227 Medford is approved I'm sorry I I got to start one more time all right here we go I move that in the case of uh BBA 24-5 the appeal of the building official's decision that's a gas not correct there's a yeah it's the right address but it's the wrong yeah so that's WR um it's the ceiling height uh yeah the code sections are correct it's just the yeah ceiling height requirement yeah it seem like the the denied one is correct terminology over here the denied one might be the right write up but it's the you know right page 21 little challenging here maybe the way to do it is do this I think I've got it I think page
02221 get you there but changing the word denied to granted if that's the yeah maybe the good starting point yeah use page 21 but you deny or Grant as you will M okay let's try this fourth time fourth time here we go wor Time Lucky um okay um one more little [Applause] okay I moveed that in case BBA 24-5 the appeal of the building official's decision that the ceiling height must be at a minimum 6'4 in under obstruction at 2227 Medford is granted relief from the 2015 Michigan residential code and the building board of appeals reverses the building officials decisions for the following reason that the applicant number three the applicant will not increase the existing non-compliant condition stipulations include that there be smoke detection systems on both sides of the duct work that the
023underside of the ducts ducts will not be f finished um that there will not be uh that the ceiling the duct height will not be considered an impediment over the bathroom laboratory and water closet and with a further recommendation that a protective cushioned Corner Edge to the ducts be provided is that a stipulation or a recommendation that's a recommendation Mike is that something you can do I mean I can't enforce it it's we can't enforce recommendations okay you make a requirement what the protective Edge would be but that reduces the height of it potentially wouldn't it it would but I'm just worried about somebody walking into that corner of the doct work yeah and it would seem that to have an extra little half inch intrusion into the ceiling height wouldn't be um what about
024safety tape visual safety tape it would be no thickness and you see it more I don't know just something second before we discuss this sure is there is there a second to a motion is there any more second the motion and just could you read it back so that je Williams can get it down and maybe the applicants been writing this down too okay what are the stipulate the stipulations include smoke detections system on both sides of the duct Bank MH that the duct the two ducts will not be finished on their undersides that the height of the existing ducts will not be considered an impediment over the bathroom laboratory and water closet and that there be a protective cushioned Corner Edge to the duct to both ducts is that number four that's number four
025not an overing fix you have that was there a finding with respect to one two or three I think he said um was it three or is it misinterpreted eally form of construction it sounds like three it's it's three but it's not it's not a better or equal form of construction it's an acknowledgement that it's an existing condition an existing non-compliant condition that isn't going to be made worse in a way it's kind of a modification of pendex J I guess you're saying huh it's technical pH infity of of you know okay do we have a second on the motion we had that okay discussion discussion you want to those in favor I I those against no against so passes uh 4 to zero so you have a granted variance with the condition stipulated so
026you should be getting a notification from the building department with this uh variance approval very good what thank you all very much for your consideration we really appreciate the the variance it's uh uh very uh generous of of you all to uh do this for our family and to uh uh use your time for the city so thank you very much thank you Paul I'll send you an updated um motion for you to sign okay can I ask you a quick question if you said are you uh when Deborah when you send that that motion do I see it yeah can I what latitude do I have to make Corrections none none it on that that's why we got to get it right these should be almost in writing and she's not going to leave
027until she gets whatever was put on this record we can't change it what happen we it's a open meetings act there's just no authority to change anything we can't make scribers erors uh we don't have that okay it's clear okay we have an applicant for the second appeal now de okay which one the one I didn't rip apart okay so um the next item of the agenda is appeal BBA 24002 at uh 1435 Catalina Drive an arbor and uh the first item on the agenda or the first item to talk about is the staff report there for that variance request so the property at 1435 Catalina it's a single family property that was built in 1958 uh upon a mechanical inspection um under permit Mech 23-26 654 it was noted that the gas line exits
028the house below grade and enters the garage below grade uh building permit was issued for 7 on 721 uh for work described as installing footing garage floor wct twostory garage structure doors windows siding Roofing gutters sewer water electric the building permit was finaled 629 of 23 uh plumbing permit plr 22- 3190 for described as installing rough plumbing system to garage structure trench for drainage water gas line for future installation the permit was issued 923 of 22 and no final inspection was performed on that permit and it is currently expired no mechanical permit was pulled for the gas line to the garage which is required per section g241 15.6 of the 2015 Michigan residential code the gas line exiting and entering the building below grade is a violation of the code staff recommends the application is
029denied as it doesn't meet the standards for the code the code has not been misinterpreted and the provisions of the code do apply the existing condition is less safe than the minimum minimum requirement of the 2015 Michigan residential code section g241 5.6 that states the underground penetration is prohibited gas piping shall not penetrate building Foundation walls at any point below grade gas piping shall enter and exit a a building at a point above grade and the annular space between the pipe and the wall shall be sealed um contractor responsibility is another section that I wanted to reference during this um uh in with regards to the contractor who installed the gas line uh it shall be the duty of every person who performs work for the installation or repair of building structure electrical gas mechanical
030and Plumbing Systems for which this code is applicable to comply to the code um the gas line is mentioned in plumbing permit 23 or 22 3190 but no mechanical permit was issued for the gas line um the inspector on the final inspection of the mechanical 23 2654 uh stated in his inspection that the gas uh pressure test was approved but the con contractor that installed the gas line to the garage uh was installed with no permit no inspection the gas line is installed below grade inhouse and below grade slab in garage it needs to be corrected before generator final is approved um and then he makes a note to the con the current contractor who pulled the permit for the generator installation uh that there's no action on their part um needed at this time
031and that he could be contacted with questions um the basis of the appeal is the provisions of the code do not apply section G4 2415 point sorry section g 241 15.6 was the adopted code at the time of installation and clearly states that underground penetrations are prohibited um with that this appeal doesn't meet the standards of approval okay thank you so now we're going to have the applicant U present their request for our variance and um if you could state which standard for approval you're looking for variance for if the inten of the code doesn't apply if you're um providing something equally or good or better than the code or if the code has been misinterpreted so hi my name is Steve Fri um I'm the homeowner U I apologize I am not a contractor
032so I I might not be using all the correct terms I hope you'll bear with me for a moment um so the the reason that we asked for the variance was that we all of everything that we did for this generator and and what is being held up now is this generator um only about I don't know six or eight feet of pipe was installed and then the generator was installed so basically everything for this uh generator that is being looked at um meets the code so what doesn't meet the code was previous work that again had been I thought all finalized and all good so we were we were actually very surprised to find that there was an issue with anything um so our like I said the the basis for the appeal was
033was was basically that we were kind of grandfathered in on the old stuff and then the new stuff all met okay when when was can I I ask a question yeah go ahead uh when was the old stuff put in uh construction started in 2022 and finished in 2023 I I don't know the exact months I apologize this was your contractor that installed it correct yeah the underground pipe yes I mean he so we went through sort of a general contractor right and he had some stuff that was sort of subcontracted um I guess as far as like who's licensed for what I can't say exactly who did what um but I have contact information for my general contractor I have a question about the general run of the gas line so okay the original
034House dates from 1958 correct the gas comes into a meter that is correct and then it is there a basement to the house yes okay so from meter across to where the new garage Edition is does that run across the ceiling to the basement yes okay it then goes through the foundation wall of the house and turns up into the new garage it's attached garage or detach garage it is a detach garage so there's um I don't know 20 ft or so that it runs underground uh and we ran it at the same time we ran plumbing and water out there detached garage so what what is the photograph on page 17 illustrating is it illustrating where the gas pipe is running from the house underground and then it turns up in the garage and
035then it goes back outside of the garage to the generator I apologize I'm not looking at it right this second but I can I can kind of describe it so it goes through the foundation wall of the house it runs underground it does run underneath the it runs through the foundation wall and then comes up through the garage floor I think I had one picture of it coming through the garage floor uh which was again old work then it runs it runs up the wall and along the ceiling of the garage and then down the wall and through the wall above grade to where the generator was installed and that that above grade point where it goes through the wall into the generator is is what's on this permit I think to be code compliant
036it would have to come up through the wall like this go back down below ground back up around through the like it should have went up to like this instead of right through the wall and then up above greater for the fitting so so on page 17 that stub up through the floor if you if you flip to the other side of that concrete block you would be outside that is correct so it seems I mean am I misunderstanding this if they tap the gas line on the outside of the garage bring it up a and then connect back into the garage they'd be all right that would be C compliant at the house both sides house and 100% with it it would need to do something similar at the house come out above grade
037and the contractor looked at stubbing it up outside versus you know what what attempts have been made right now uh I guess no attempts have been made the the complaint that we had was that it it's entirely in in one I mean it was I wouldn't even call it a pipe for me it's like a that yellow you know like what you attach a hose to hard pipe to like your stove or dryer except it's like 2-in pipe but it's it's only one piece from where it leaves the house to where it is is just below the the grade so it seemed very silly to go cut into that and add more joints uh when the issue is a I assume the issue with this uh code and why the code was updated was for
038leaks so it it seemed silly to put more joints in as potential leak points uh when we already passed the pressure test you passed the pressure test for your new stuff not for the old stuff we passed the pressure test for the old stuff as well everything everything was pressure tested when it was installed so when the garage was installed we did that and we ran a bunch of pipe in preparation for this uh generator installed and then the generator generator install they they did pressure testing too and again it it passed but the issue isn't the pressure test the issue is the fact that you've got a pipe a gas pipe coming in under the garage slab and then turning up in the garage if it turned outside the garage and then came into
039the garage above the slab it'd be fine I mean it's seems like a relatively simple fix to comply with the code yeah the only issue is that it's a brand new concrete outside that we would have to dig up and then dig up the uh sections of yard between it to to make all these connections because it is like I said it got it got installed with the uh the waste line the water line and um yeah same s those two so it's it's relatively deep and under new concrete is that quick but was there ever a was was there ever a a final inspection or rough inspection I mean as a contractor you have you have multiple phases of construction so you have your rough that would turn it up into it and at
040that point the plumbing inspector should have said stop no this is not approved and then to me it looks like I do we have a history on these inspections was it ever approved so for the gas line on the initial bu that was associated with the initial garage permit or with yeah with the original garage there was no mechanical permit pulled for the gas line so somebody just came in and put it in without an inspection without no permit so there wasn't a permit so it wasn't inspected yeah that's where my problem the plumbing struct would have been out there he didn't fly he didn't notice of the fact it's a gas line in the same trench and I don't I can't speak to what they but yeah that that would have been an opportunity
041potentially to flag it but uh yeah possibly yeah I don't I don't want to point fingers at anybody but I mean we had we had inspectors out I swear it was like 25 times uh for for different things and I know that we asked about this and it was it was like Hey that that's not what I do we didn't it seemed like it kind of fell into a gray area and I apologize if it sounds like I'm making excuses but we we weren't putting anything mechanical in we were only putting the gas line in for future work and so it seemed like it's seemed like everybody was kind of saying uh no that's not what I do uh you know you're not doing any mechanical stuff because like I said there there was no
042heater there was no generator there was nothing out there for the natural gas to go to um but it was it was definitely seen many many times it was one of the first things that happened I mean it came through the concrete so that was done before a stick of wood was put up and this that's the reason that I included the contractor's responsibility section r 105.8 yeah and are you still have a relationship with the general contractor that built the garage you'd be able to fix this stuff or I mean it he didn't close a per guess there wasn't there wasn't a mechanical permit for the gas line so it's it's nowhere I mean the general contractor bottom line did the work he had somebody come in it didn't just yeah yeah pop up
043right he didn't show up one day with it yeah yeah and so the yeah the general contractor should take this as his responsibility to make it right even if there concrete being import even if there's concrete that needs to be cut anything like that yeah general contractor it falls back on them to make it right make it right mhm um but yeah my issue is just that there was never permit pull so at one point someone had to say this is not approved because of this yeah yeah yeah observe it and realize it and then think yeah yeah and that concrete was ped should have been ped just an unrelated question but when all the utilities for the garage when that trench was dug is that are all the pipes in the same trench yes
044they're at they're at different levels they're slightly offset um because the trying to remember I think the waistline had to be a different depth than the feed line for the water um but yes they are it was it was about three feet wide and I don't know 5 feet or so deep but but they're they're near each other yeah yeah I mean you can't I'm I'm I'm I'm more than possible have to confirm this you can't go in the same trench electrical and gas uh not not electrical sorry only only uh water out waste back because the waste ties into our house um and the gas there's no electrical in the same trench I apologize if I said that okay the worst case they r a different whole new gas land but for got to
045bring it BR down and tie back into that thing it seems like they got to cut a hole on each end well the the thing is that you have to have a solid P it has to have a solid run from A to B joint that right now that is what he has he's got that Sol P the problem is that there ever anything happened to that the explosion of that line would blow up that foundation and take house with it instead of staying outside and burn up the side of the house where fire ratings are put place for that reason and because you went through a foundation that's the problem and if they don't have the proper like you can't see right now you know they have they don't have um the concrete is
046flat around that pipe and there's no protection around that pipe you can't put concrete up against this because lime will deteriorate that line and that's why they put cushion around those lines so whoever did this did it for a hey let's just throw a gas sign in here just for the future but they just didn't do it right and that's your conduit your gas line will deteriorate over time it's a great gas line but the concrete itself will deteriorate that gas [Applause] line and that contractor should come back rip this up pay for the foundation pay pay for the every bit of turn this up outside and put it right and that's what should happen so is there a way that even have to remove this line because even if they have B in this
047line it still connects you know I guess if you don't gas connection either end of it I guess well very very well he they could chip up the concrete that's right there they to chip up the concrete that's on the outside and then can pull it dig it down pull it out bend it back up on the outside of the house put it on your your connections yeah uhhuh and like that's that's what you would try to do and if the gas line and with that you're going to be cutting off the part that is bent and is corroded and under pressure and you're not you're not compromising the single line that comes from the house to the outside mhm it's just lazy construction that's all this is there is there is something I don't
048know if it's obvious but they they said it was specifically made to go through concrete and again I'm I'm far from an expert so I apologize if that doesn't even make sense but that was what they told us is that this stuff was made to come through concrete and that's what how it works um well again I'll yield to your judgment on that the problem is we don't have any cut shoots we don't have any specifications we don't have anything that has that if it does you know there's some kind of numbers on the side of it but you can't read any of that stuff um your your better bet in my opinion would' be getting on the phone with the contractor getting this explanation directly from him before we make a decision and have
049him come and defend what he did and if he does have evidence that shows that it can do that it can do these things then that's what it is but right now what you're looking at just having that concrete tight around your gas line it's not it's not okay you can't you can't do that um and you you shouldn't have it go through your house because you don't if he took enough in my opinion if he took enough risk just to throw that in there for you who knows what it looks like going through your foundation what what looks is underneath there and how much water is coming through the line if you didn't seal that line coming through your foundation wall what kind of cracks you're going to have what kind of shifts movements
050all that stuff if this line ever blows up you lose your entire corner of your house and it's a twostory garage correct I just wouldn't take I wouldn't take that risk in my own house having my kids there you know if something ever happened just because of a lazy contractor okay the other the other issue with concrete around the pipe like that it prevents any movement and pipes want to move they'll they warm they expand and we actually design pipe connections to allow little flex and if you grab something and hold it tight like that what you're likely to get is Cracks around that location as the pipe shifts over time temperature changes will cause cracks cuz you holding it really tight in one spot yeah that's the other reason why you put a collar
051around it right yeah a let it Flex cuz it's it's pretty much a clamped system that it it will it'll allow movement and flex in your line and so right now with that with that with it unable to move like this it's just going to hold like this and that's just going to break open if the heat and you know um the temperature on the outside of the house to the inside the house that's why houses moveed and that it will break and it just wouldn't be a good thing feel like I kind of took advantage of you right here any further discussion from the board or the staff um I would I would think about before we make a motion on if so once we make the motion it's that's that's what you have
052to do um if you want to table it to come back for next month and talk to your contractor about coming in here and see what other options you might have um and what he might have if he comes up with anything um because if if if we end up approving or denying it there's no overturning that decision okay and I can reach out to him uh I I know that he he mentioned several times that it was like this is the way that you do things I know that at least when it goes through the foundation it is sleeved um that's not the the biggest thing going on here but that's not the point that's not the point the point is that the current configuration doesn't meet code the only way around it is
053to get it out of the picture that's on page 17 and have the gas line come up outside the house or outside the garage structure and then back in right now it's underneath the the garage slab and you can't do that that's the issue and I mean all the other things that were said about the pipe movement and concrete up against the PIP is true but the basic issue as I understand it yeah is that it's coming in underneath the garage the garage slab and that's a no no and there's no there's no way to finesse that so that's true that's true so it's not it's not whether or not that doesn't belong there we came up with additional reasons one that's right place yeah true can I say that if if it were a
054separate appeal that it should be an appeal not brought for like I feel like we should separate the two if if you think the contractor should be the person who's making an appeal um I I think that it's a separate appeal from what the homeowner's doing but that's just my I personally agree with the fact is I brought up a separate issue right like my separate issue is that the pipe is not shouldn't be in that Concrete in the first place that's not what the question the question right now is that it's coming in through the side of the house into the garage and it can't do that that is what is that question here not the other thing is the contractor still liable for this yes he did something it wasn't approved it wasn't
055anything absolutely um if he wants to make the contract or fa here but yeah that's not I would think that the strength of your argument with your contractor is that you tried to get a variance for his work and it didn't pass mustard yes okay okay yeah what he did is legal and he gave you false information that you can do it and it'll be okay but it's not and you can't do it so what what your contract with him is to do stuff per code per building per everything and he didn't do it especially trying to hide a gas line a gas line you don't mess with that's a very big Plumbing thing that will make or break a house so I would I'd go right back to him and put this all on
056his lap okay have a motion I moved it in the case of make sure I get the right one I moved that in the case of BBA 24-2 the appe of the building officials decision that the gas line installed at 1435 Catalina Drive is denied and the board of appeals the building board of appeals affirms the building officials decision for following reasons one that the true intent of the 2015 Michigan residential code in section g241 15.6 for the gas line installed at 1435 Cataline Drive have been correctly interpreted by the building official two that the provision of the 2015 Mees Michigan residential code section g241 15.6 does apply to the construction of 1435 Catalina Drive and three the applicant has not proposed an equal or better form of construction thank you you have a second
057second that all right those in favor I I the ran is uh denied okay thank you gentlemen thank you time all right that closes the appeals action and show Clause hearing portion of the agenda old business anything nothing new business nothing a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second those in favor I I passes 228