001tonight um we will conduct this meeting like inperson meetings so Commissioners during roll call please indicate your current location and during the meeting please remain on camera just as you would be visible and please mute when you're not speaking uh public comment tonight will be on Via telephone only to speak during any of the com public comment opportunities please call one of the two toll-free numbers 877 853 5247 orle 0099 and under the meeting ID number 956 8718 7876 on your phone this information is also available on the publish agenda in Public Notices section of the city website and on the broadcast of this meeting on ctm channel 16 as well as AT&T channel 99 and of course online at a2gov.org CN Joe would you please read the land acknowledgement for us tonight yep um
002I acknowledge that the land the city of Van Arbor occupies is the ancestral traditional and contemporary lands of the anash shanab including Odawa oju and badmi and W andat peoples I further acknowledge that our city stands like almost all property in the United States on lands obtained generally in unconscious ways from indigenous peoples The Taking of this land was formalized by the Treaty of Detroit in 1807 knowing where we live work study and recreate does not change the past but a thorough understanding of the ongoing consequences of this past can Empower us in our work to create a future that supports human flourishing and justice for all individuals thank you and could you please take the roll call yep there's someone there let me promote him um I've heard uh commissioner Sandra said he was
003running a little late today but um commissioner burwitz see you but so we we'll take that as good for now um council member Briggs um commissioner cvin Garcia not seeing yet she said she might might have a conflict um commissioner Hans here from my home in an arbor uh commissioner 11 I see he's here see the connecting for audio so we'll Circle back in a sec um chair McKenna here uh commissioner mki here for my home and an arbor commissioner overp here from an arbor in my home uh council member Rina here in an arbor uh say commissioner Cinder is running a little late uh commissioner Smith here and an arbor and commissioner zittleman here and an arbor all right chair you got a quorum fantastic thank you so much um so we'll move on
004to the approval of the agenda is there a motion to approve the agenda as posted and and a second second thanks and a second commissioner mski thank you um so Commissioners please raise your hand if you want to propose any changes to the agenda it's posted we stating an issue okay fantastic and we have commissioner burko is joining so seeing No Hands raised all those in favor of approving the agenda as posted raise your hand and say I I great I'm seeing unanimous vote um so the agenda is approved and we'll move to approving the minutes is there a motion to approve the minutes as posted in a second so moved thank you council member Briggs and commissioner mki um so um are there any proposed changes at this time if not we'll move on
005to raising hands um all those in favor of approving the minutes as posted um please raise your hand and say I I okay thank you for unanimous vote the minutes are approved we will now move into our first opport opportunity for public comment uh this is an opportunity for folks to speak up to 3 minutes if you're watching on CTN you can call 0099 or 877 853 5247 and enter the meeting ID 956 8718 7876 and this information is displayed on the meeting agenda in the video feed City staff will select callers that have raised their hand one by one using the last three digits of your phone number to electronically raise your hand to indicate your desire to speak please press star n on your phone you will hear an automated announcement that the
006host is allowing you to speak and when speaking please I'm hearing some feedback please move to a quiet area and mute any television or background sound so that we may hear you clearly uh please set your name and address at the beginning of your comments Joe do we have anyone on the line I don't have any hands raised but I have some people in there so I'm going to give him a second just in case all right [Music] um uh caller ending in 134 um thank you Mr Lang and chairman Kenna it's Ken Garber 28 H Hill Court um I wasn't going to speak but um seeing no one else a public comment um I figured I'd chime in um I look forward to all the presentations tonight they all look excellent um I want
007to raise an issue that's not on the agenda and that's the um DTE capacity problem um some of you know what I'm talking about um we've seen a lot of um good developments that want to go all electric new construction end up using gas because DTE does not have the um capacity to serve the building um this has been extremely frustrating to me personally uh it happened just last week when the architect for 7-Eleven Church a 17-story building that intended to be all electric um ended up uh having to uh uh go with gas boilers because DTE said it didn't have enough capacity this has been an issue elsewhere and it's legally unacceptable in my opinion under common law and also modern federal and state statutes and regulations Monopoly utilities are obligated to provide service
008to all customers within their service territories even if they have to do this at a loss you can't just say sorry not enough capacity duty to serve as I understand it is a rock solid legal principle but unless we hold DTE to this that company I think will refuse or delay and here's why DTE Electric in 2023 had a 13% operating margin according to their most recent uh 10K filed with the SEC compared to 177% for DTE Gas SO gas sales are a lot more profitable DTE has no incentive to add electric capacity forcing gas is much better for dte's bottom line um so uh I don't have a fast answer to this dilemma but all our electrification efforts in new construction will be for not if DTE doesn't get on board and uh upgrade
009its capacity I think we need more information to begin with what is not enough capacity mean do the distribution lines lack sufficient diameter to deliver the electricity are the substation Transformers deficient is DTE not Contracting for enough electricity from ITC and myo which run the wholesale grid that's the first thing we need to find outs um and if upgrading is needed is DTE charging developers uh an arm and a leg under CIA which is contribution in Native construction um this is being misused it was meant to make sure rate payers weren't subsidizing urban sprawl not for infill projects um but no one took DTE system neglect into account anyway um I'm not asking for an answer or even a discussion I just want to raise this issue because it's affecting Planning Commission literally every month
010thanks and again look forward to the talks thank you um no further callers thank you so much thanks Ken for your comments um they are received and I uh am curious what you're thinking uh so thank you for for calling in and laying all that out for us some very pertinent points there um all right so we're going to move into presentations and discussions we do have a pretty full agenda tonight um so we're gonna without further Ado um invite our friend um Jordan Larson up uh a community engagement innovator at OSI uh to tell us about the current state of affairs on um an arbor work in the bright neighborhood thank you Claire and thank you everyone for having me tonight um just give me one moment as I pull up my screen share
011all right can everybody see just to confirm yep all good all right thank you again to the commission for having me tonight uh as Claire said my name is Jordan Larson and I am the community engagement in inovator for an arber's office of sustainability and Innovations uh I have been with the office um since the beginning of this last September um so I'm sowhat new to the team um very excited to be here and contribute to the work um and one of the things that I just wanted to kind of uh begin with is to um highlight and stress that you know my uh role within the office is to support um the the community engagement and Communications that we're doing um and so while I not be an expert when it comes to some
012of the technicalities behind the the energy work that we're doing um uh a lot of the work that we're doing in the Bryant neighborhood is very much um you know resident focused engagement focused um and that's why I'm here to present to you because that's been the the primary project that I've been working on so um I appreciate you being here and I'm happy to to share some updates with you all so to kind of just run over the structure of what we're going to talk about today um just laying out kind of the agenda or table of contents for this presentation um we'll start with a general overview of uh what the work is and the project uh and some of the grounding and and kind of approach and thought process that we have
013behind the work highlight some of the planning um of what's gone into how we're approaching um our community- based energy work in the Bryant neighborhood um what we're doing with implementation and kind of how that's going uh and then we'll be discussing a little bit about the exciting District geothermal project we're pursuing um and then end with some highlights of additional work and takeaways um so I'll begin by uh kind of answering this question or highlighting why the Bryant neighborhood um as many of you know Equity is one of the primary um three values driving the a20 plan um and uh when it comes to why we're we're really focusing on briyan as sort of this pilot or test neighborhood to to Really push for what a carbon neutral neighborhood could look like there are
014a few different reasons that we want to highlight um uh to kind of set the scene you know Bryant uh is in the southeast side of an arbor just uh south of the I94 freeway um bordering ston School Road um and it's one of an Arbor's um we would describe as Frontline communities um that has also historically um kind of had underinvestment when compared to the rest of the city um residents of the Bryant neighborhood are over 50% bipac um 75% low income um with many residents that are long-term residents that have been in the neighborhood for many decades uh being on fixed incomes as well um and roughly average energy costs um are between um uh 13 and 1800 a year uh roughly onethird of residents are classified as energy cost burdened um the
015homes in particular in Bryant um were all built around the same time as part of a single development um in the late 1960s um currently roughly half of um these single family homes are owner occupied while the other half are renters um and now one of the reasons um you know that we we especially wanted to focus on Brian is to acknowledge that um trying to transition um a an existing neighborhood like this to being carbon neutral is a challenging difficult task um especially recognizing that you know homes built um prior to Modern energy codes and um homes that are a little bit older have a lot of um repair work that need to be done as well um and so we recognize that this is a kind of hard uh thing to achieve in
016the first place and that's one of the reasons that we want to focus on um a neighborhood like this to show that it can be done and to um kind of assess and as we go better understand what it does take to transition a neighborhood like this to be carbon neutral um another couple highlights is that the um neighborhood uh is also supported by a community center run by Community Action Network um which is very engaged in the neighborhood um and allows us to do a lot of great partnership work um with a trusted organization um and partially through that community structure there are a lot of opportunities for community leadership um to kind of Drive the project um and those are some like very important pieces um yeah so as I mentioned you know
017so much of this work is being done in collaboration with the Bryant Community Center and Community Action Network um and so having kind of a home base in the community has been essential to the work uh to highlight a few things that Community Action Network does um it is a nonprofit and um it serves seven community centers across the county um the majority of which are in an arbor um and this one in particular the Bryant Community Center um provides a number of services to the neighborhood um one thing to note is that it hosts uh the County's largest food pantry um which is one of its biggest operations um it also serves as a site for after school programming and summer youth programs as well um that support students through some of their their
018schoolwork and also through some professional development um and also supports Community capacity building in a number of different ways um and again just really want to take a moment to um to highlight and celebrate uh all of the amazing work that K does and the Brant Community Center does um and uh highlight as well that you know the work that we're doing to try to support carbon neutrality in the neighborhood um would not be possible without partnering with this trusted Community organization um now to to kind of just give an overview of uh kind of the the planning and what has gone into how we're approaching the project um the goal that we're trying to achieve is to transform the Bryant neighborhood into um really what might be considered the first fully decarbonized existing neighborhood
019um especially in an arbor but in Midwest and possibly the us as well um now to sort of uh get this process moving um we started with um grants from the mcnight foundation and uh this first step is to do home energy assessments um which is to work with residents to better understand um the needs in their homes what types of Renovations are required what can be done from an energy perspective and um uh one of the things that we really want to highlight is that um in kind of developing this project and moving this project forward um you know we we were very open to and and really lean on community feedback and Community leadership and how we kind of got this process uh off the ground um and so some of the things
020that we learned early on in the stages of the project um through listening to Residents was to um uh think about the way that we are referring to energy assessments um instead of calling them energy audits we call them assessments instead um and um a lot of this focuses on um a lot of our work uh in the neighborhood uh focuses on and highlights um uh health and safety um along with the climate impacts as well um so that's kind of how the the assessments are are critical to the beginning of the work and as far as um the planning phase for for funding improvements um you know while this is all going on we've been strategically applying for um grants to actually do um the the retrofits and change makak within the community um
021so that's kind of how things started um again we kind of already provided a little bit of detail on this assessment process um with changing the names from audits to assessments um the focus on health and safety and um one of the things that we found was really helpful to getting residents on board was just to even compensate them for their time engaging with the assessment process um so residents that complete their energy assessments receive $50 um Visa gift cards um and that has been a big help in in getting folks to um you know take some of that extra time to walk through the assessment process with us um and at the end of that assessment process um we create a report on the home and what can be done to make improvements um
022and that is done through the um energy uh software program snugpro um so we uh put everyone's information in snugpro develop these reports um and provide those reports to the residents themselves but then also use those um as we we try to connect residents um to the programs and and resources that we have now as far as the actual making improvements Parts which is the kind of the um the main goal of what we're what we're trying to do here um we're we're using these assessments to coordinate and fund uh the improvements by stacking as many different grants and resources that we have um uh really focusing on the health and safety components Energy Efficiency beneficial electrification um Renewables where we can um as well um some of the things to note uh we have
023encountered homes with drainage issues in uh basements and crawl spaces um exposed wires and attics um so as we've gotten you know kind of into the the bulk of the work we are definitely finding that there are some um you know important uh just repair concerns that we have to uh address with households while we're doing this as well um but in this process it's been essential to work with residents very closely um residents always have the final say on um all of the upgrades and working with the contractors um something to note is uh for the for the time being the the energy work that we're doing has not focused on changing HVAC um or installing heat pumps because we're exploring this um District geothermal system um which we'll get into a little bit
024later um and so to to give just a quick overview of kind of how we're funding some of this um a large chunk of funding has gone through the uh State uh Michigan Home opportunities um for energy oh gosh I'm forgetting the exact acronym for the My Hope program too many acronyms um I have it later in the presentation as well um but uh we've got a large uh amount of funding I think 1.55 million from the My Hope program um that's supporting retrofits uh we are also stacking that with the county weatherization assistance program um trying to get as many uh folks into that program as well um so that we can stretch our our other dollars um we are also receiving some funding from the builders initiative which is helping to um do
025some more of the the deeper electrification and even renewable uh energy installations like solar for a few houses as well um and we've also received some funding from the solar moonshot um initiative um for solarization um here I can just highlight uh a few uh more sort of visual examples of some of the work being done um a lot of the homes in the neighborhood have um had very little to no insulation so um definitely the houses that we have been working with have um received uh attic uh insulation and basement uh insulation encapsulation um that has been a big one for sure um there's also been work on door Replacements um uh full door Replacements also adding storm doors you ceing around doors um you know uh General air sealing work for the envelope
026um and that of course also includes Windows um so window replacements with um high energy efficient Windows um and you know additional air sealing um I would also just like to highlight uh that we have um you know in a few instances been able to install uh solar arrays um for a few residents um uh and while it is not pictured in this portion of the slideshow um you know this also comes along with uh panel upgrades and some other electrical work as well as additional Appliance uh swaps and upgrades now to uh to kind of highlight um some of the stories and and feelings from uh can staff as well as some residents I wanted to take a moment to share a video that was produced by the mcnight foundation um about the work
027that we're doing so just bear with me real quick as I stop my screen share and I share another window that has the video ready to go it's actually looking like maybe we don't have permission to share sound um that's okay uh I know that's maybe happened with our zooms before um I can share uh this video um after the session and it is included Linked In the slideshow um yeah I think that' be awesome Jordan let's let's do that yep uh so would definitely encourage watching the video it's great to hear from some of the residents and hear some of those stories but we can move on so let me go back to my screen share of the slideshow n that is present review let me go back to the correct on apologies for
028this slight delay here okay all right and we will continue [Music] on uh so here just to highlight some of the progress um the current progress that we've made um so far in the work we've completed 73 home energy assessments um we've secured funding uh for roughly around uh 50 home retrofits um with a lot of that funding coming from the My Hope program which is 55 or sorry 25,000 per home um we've nearly completed uh that contracted work through that program for 10 houses and we've got another additional 10 houses in the queue um we've added solar to two homes in the neighborhood um and we have three more in the queue as well um something I just want to highlight is um some of the challenges that we've been uh uh in um
029you know kind of discovered ing throughout the process we mentioned them earlier a little bit uh including the drainage and mold remediation um again these are things that um shouldn't be that surprising but when it comes to limited perouse funding it's uh a fairly big ticket item to do drainage remediation or deal with mold remediation so on the occasional house where that is a concern um that does take up a a fairly large amount of funding um and then again there can be these deeper repairs um if there's structural concerns around the roof or deeper electrical work um that needs to be done um so in those instances you know that can um take a large chunk of of the funding that we have for an individual house for instance um so far again this
030is a very rough estimate um we've been seeing that um really the funding that it takes um to move these homes into from the state that they're currently in to more to like an almost fully carbon neutral or fully electrified um and carbon neutral state is close closer to 45 to 60,000 um so obviously the 25,000 per home from just the My Hope program um uh does not fully cover that and so figuring out ways to to stack funding um again I will note um that does not include the retrofits for HVAC um which we'll we'll address in a little bit um also just noteworthy that um some of these programs that we're working with do have income limit requirements um uh which is you know in important consideration from an equity perspective but also
031something that we're needing to consider how we make sure that resources and um you know ability to participate um for folks that are maybe just above some of those um income limitations um and can't really Finance uh a lot of these upgrades on their own so thinking about ways to uh provide more resources to those households um and then again you know as is a common concern how do we make sure that there's renter access with 50% renters in the Community um some of our funding does allow for uh supporting retrofits for rental properties um but in the case of the My Hope program a landlord can only retrofit one house and if they have multiple homes in the neighborhood only one of those can be covered by the program um now just to highlight
032a few next steps um uh again I've been mentioning the county weather weatherization assistance program um we only recently discovered that their uh books are open for uh getting new uh projects uh underway and so we're really in the process right now of of um pushing that really hard and they have um more uh open income limits so bringing more residents into that program and and really focusing on stacking those um and then one of the next components that we're really going to be focusing on is evaluation over the last uh year and a half we've been pushing really hard on the um energy assessments but now that we're actually getting some of the work done in homes and getting some of the retrofits completed um we're going to be logging what those retrofits are
033and kind of what's Happening into snug Pro as well and trying to track outcomes um but that's kind of what's what's to come uh now to go on to the geothermal project um this is really exciting uh because we received a um energy conservation block grant uh to do a one-year planning project uh to develop a design for a district geothermal system uh in the Bryant Community this would cover all of the uh 260 single family homes as well as the Bryant Elementary School the County mental health facility which is across the street and the wheeler service center um which is also um across the street from the Bryant neighborhood so this is a very large uh large project um that we're really excited to to pursue um and again one of the things that's
034really important about this project is to really Center um kind of equity in the process and acknowledging that geothermal is not something that any of our individual residents would be able to pursue on their own but if we can um establish a a district system that really opens a lot of doors for transitioning um uh this system uh I believe is intended to uh take on at least 70% of the heating and cooling needs of that whole District um and uh again it is just a Grant um so in this current phase uh we're designing a system with a lot of community feedback um with Community engagement being a key part of the project um we're doing monthly events as well as uh other engagements to get uh Community input on the project um but
035there is an opportunity to down select um from the the current grantees in the program to get implementation funding um so uh we're really pushing hard on this and we really hope that we will have success and by the end end of um I think the project period goes through this coming uh September um and then we're really hoping we get selected for some of that implementation funding um but here's just a bit of a a graphic to outline some of the stakeholders um again really focusing on this being a coalition um for Community geothermal so we do have the community voice portion where we have the city of an arbor Community Action Network washing County an Arbor Public Schools and DTE supporting um since this is crossing property lines it does um it it
036has to be considered kind of as utility so we do have uh DTE as a partner um as we're trying to pursue this project um we do also have analysis and design support a lot of technical support on this from a number of different organizations and Consultants um there's also a Workforce Development component um where we're we're really focusing on um how we can develop and uh um make more Equitable access to the workforce that needs to be kind of created to to Really push additional geothermal work um in our kind of local and Regional communities um and how can we um kind of get some of that information um into the community about opportunities there um and then we have partners for um deployment um the actual geothermal contractors and and those folks um
037so this is a very exciting project that we're just getting off the ground and um can just highlight a few things in the upcoming t uh timeline to really show you how um while we're really pushing and supporting energy work um the community center and events that we're also engaging on are focused on just general Community Development and um uh other just like fun aspects of bringing together so generally we have a couple of events hosted at the community center per month um often one is more of just a community oriented event whether this month for instance there's a Bake Off happening uh this Friday or there game nights or um you know holiday celebrations um and we try to attend those as well um and at some of those more just kind of community
038oriented events we can do some of our promotion and talk to folks about the energy work that we're doing as well um promoting opportunities to engage in our uh events as well as sign up for the energy assessments and such um but uh next week we're doing our first Community design shet um where we'll be doing a lot of uh project introduction to the geothermal project we'll have another design shet where we're actually going into the system design and getting a little bit more deep into um what the project will look like and then moving forward we'll have a number of different engagements around the geothermal project from engaging landlords to providing project updates to the community um focusing on some of that Workforce Development and green careers uh as well as celebrating the project
039the end um so this is a really big project we're really excited to uh be pursuing and if we are successful that's when we'll we'll push for um geothermal um and try to get more resources to get um you know retrofits in homes for for heat pumps to get into that uh District system um and uh again just to kind of point out all throughout this timeline we're continuing to do our door-to-door Outreach um as well as office hours where we're supporting people with applications for different programs um and that's all just kind of happening in the background as well um now I'll just highlight some of our additional work a few fun things to uh to point out that have been happening at the community center um uh in I believe 2002 uh there
040was the uh resilience Hub ribbon cutting at the Bryant Community Center um with the addition of uh solar and battery storage um with the building um which we're super excited about uh we have also um uh received a grant uh to do some more deep um decarbonization work at the community center as well as doubling the size of the solar array and the battery storage um as well as trying to to get the community center on geothermal first um before we pursue the rest of the district um so that the community center can serve as like a learning living laboratory for what um a carbon neutral building can look like um and so we're very excited to um to pursue that in the coming months to get a little bit more of that work done
041and move us closer to that goal um another thing that we were really excited about was this past fall um helping Community Action Network acquire a EC cargo bike um as part of the food pantry program uh can delivers food to some residents in the neighborhood that um have some more Mobility challenges that makes it a little bit harder for them to physically reach the food pantry um and so before they' been working with door Dash and a few other ways to to bring food to folks but now with the the EC cargo bike it's really easy to do all the deliveries in the neighborhood um with the ebike uh and that's uh nimy Pavo uh one of the can staff that that we work closely with and she absolutely loves that thing um so
042wanted to highlight that um and again this isn't quite as energy related but just noting that other OSI programming is also happening in the community as well like the 10,000 trees initiative um Bryant has a a lower uh tree canopy cover um and so we promote the threee tree giveaways and have done multiple uh Community tree planting events um in Bryant as well um one other thing to to just highlight is that uh Bryant does tend to have more issues with flooding and drainage um than many other neighborhoods in an arbor um and so that's kind of been a focus of the project as well um a number of households have um U with some support um planted rain Gardens um and a few other projects have gone in um to help reduce the the
043the flooding uh but again just kind of an example of how uh the brght neighborhood is one of our Frontline neighborhoods and um you know flooding and other climate impacts are a concern in that neighborhood um now just to highlight a few takeaways here at the end um you know really just want to hammer home that addressing residents needs and understanding what they want from the program is always the first priority um that has I think been one of the biggest reasons for our success in the neighborhood as well as um uh really partnering with and leading through uh an existing trusted community- based organization um in our case Community Action Network with the Brant Community Center it's been super helpful for building trust Capac capacity building um again being equal partners and making sure
044that they feel supported and have capacity um to pursue this programming um and as much as possible giving power to the residents um involving them in the process um as much as possible always asking for feedback um and letting them lead where they can and make final decisions um and again I have just a couple of pictures I wanted to use to exemplify how you know we just try to support can however we we can um they have a shed in the back of the community center that over the last year had gotten really cluttered and disorganized and we brought a couple of our americore climate Corp members that support OSI over and they just spent three hours going through and organizing the shed so again part of that trust building process and support process
045is doing kind of whatever whatever we can to to support the organization and and support the community um and these these kind of small gestures can go a long way um I won't fully walk through this but I I just wanted to share and and note that it's included in the slideshow just a little bit more information about the the various um funding sources that we have um so just wanted to to highlight that you can refer back to this if you would like um again noting that um we have a significant amount of funding from that mishta is all is the My Hope program um billage initiative the doe grant for the geothermal Project funding from the mcnight foundation city of an arbor reporting um solar moonshot and the the block grants as well
046so a lot of different funding sources and we're always trying to pursue more as well um but that takes me to the the end of the presentation um thank you so much for having me and I would be happy to take anyone's questions if you have time thank you so much for sharing all that um fantastic I'm going to open up uh the meeting here for for for comments um from Commissioners um definitely have comments and questions but I'm going to open up the floor yes commission overbeck hi um that was very impressive Jordan and I really appreciate what you guys are doing um I wonder do you get any uh residents who are or homes that are just not interested in in being part of it I mean are you getting 100% participation that's
047a good question and uh what I would say first is that we've been pleasantly surprised with the level of participation um generally when we you know I think that there's some hesitance especially at first um if there are some community members that haven't been very engaged with the community center previously you know generally people are not trusting of people saying we we have programs that we can give you for free um and so I think that's one of the the first barriers if we can and kind of get through to folks and and really um get across uh all of the the programming that we have and and you know encourage them to come over to the community center and engage in some of maybe the community building events first before they they kind of
048get involved in the energy work we've been very pleasantly surprised with the level of participation that being said of course there are residents that um you know in general have um not been as engaged in the project um uh I think some residents um again that there's some level of distrust with city government which is in many cases I think um we understand and is is warranted from um you know historical uh experience and perspectives um and again that's one of the reasons that we really try to lean really heavily through um you know this work being done through the community center um uh and also some folks that um you know from the the current resources that we have right now that don't qualify um you know they say like I I can't you
049know pursue this type of work right now I don't have um the resources to to do that um so that is something that we hear sometimes as well um you know I think that this is a project that we will um we're we're constantly looking for ways to to make sure everyone can participate and as time goes on we'll be looking for more ways to Resource homes that right now don't have as much access to to funding and and those sorts of things um but at least we have enough right now that there are a lot of households that are like yes if I want to participate if I can get my you know if I can get new windows and new doors and um you know get some of these things fixed up there's
050a there's a lot of um uh you know excitement uh to get some of that work done very cool oh yeah commissioner Hans hi thanks um just a quick question uh just going off of the years of the construction of the community and the issues with drainage I was curious is was this community built with orange or Orangeburg piping I do not know the answer to that question um unfortunately see a couple hands popping up so it's it's possible someone else in the room does so I I can jump me I I live in the neighborhood and um it was something we were concerned about when I purchased the house so we had that specific inspection done and my house does not have orange birg piping um and we've largely extrapolated that that likely means
051that most of them don't because they were all kind of constructed and developed at the same time um and are very similar so can you share what that is I've I've never heard of that term what kind of piping is that it's a uh it's a fiber based pipe that uh has degraded significantly faster than they originally planned um for portable water or sorry uh it's uh sewage drainage generally oh sewage drainage okay yeah okay so this sewer pipe is degra potentially degrading if it it were made of that yeah large swats of the city that were built in the 60s uh suffer from that issue interesting good context okay commission mki yeah I've got um a couple of quick questions uh I'll just go ahead and close them all at the same time first
052of all I'm wondering if the assessments include um blower door tests before and after secondly I'm wondering um I didn't see DTE as uh being part of the funding sources and that's a little bit disappointing um I know the state um erw the energy waste reduction uh spending was increased in the last in the recent set of bills that were passed and I think 25% of that has to be spent in lwi income housing uh or low kit income areas or there's also the DTE foundation so I'm wondering if there's any participation by DTE with incentives or anything like on appliances and then third is a question that I posed before today's meeting and that is Bryant um is one neighborhood it has 260 units and the city has almost 50,000 units and by various
053counts roughly 50 different neighborhoods so the question is when when can we start to take the lessons learned and the models and the best practices from Bryant and start deploying those across the other 49,000 odd housing units in an arbor so that's it thanks yeah absolutely uh I I uh understand and and can definitely respond to all of those questions um first just to clarify for the assessments um what we're currently doing right now uh does not include blower door tests pre and post um I as far as my understanding there was some back and forth about uh how we wanted to structure those how in-depth they were we've partnered with Elevate closely on this process one of the things that we came to was um for Access reasons some people preferred to do virtual
054home energy assessments so we have a process where people can take some photographs of some of the key appliances and then speak to someone over the phone um and kind of like walk through the assessment virtually um which has gotten a little bit more participation um so we we are not currently doing blor door tests um uh and then can you remind me what the second question was sorry my AP apologies no problem dce PT uh yes um I am not and Joe Joe's been with the office a little bit longer than me I'm not sure if we've had Direct um DTE collaboration on kind of the the individual home home retrofit side of the work they are collaborating and contributing to the the district geothermal project but yeah Joe I'm not sure if if
055there's been direct uh collaboration on on this other kind of aspect of the work yeah there there hasn't um part of that's just how funding stuff has been but you know part of it with when it comes to like the you know rebates uh like the energy waste reduction ones and stuff like that um and this happens not just with GTE but other um rebate opportunities in some cases where it's a matter of who is funding the work and who's applying for the rebate um since in this case we are the one or well you know either OSI or can or whoever has secured that particular Grant is the one who's going in and paying for it um since we are not the homeowner we cannot take advantage of that Grant opportunity so kind of
056one of those you know trade-offs where it's like cool they could get that discount if it was the homeowner paying for it but then it's the homeowner paying for it and not you know and then the flowr of funds just gets confusing when it's you know paying upfront then giving funding back in form of reimbursement so it just ends up being trickier and um not fully feasible under the the current funding structure with that uh and then or uh Gabriel did you have a response to that particular question or was you have and a followup question I do have a build on that but if you want to get to the other first that yeah oh yeah I'll I'll adjust that first yeah of course the question around um you know how are we taking
057these Lessons Learned I know that that's uh an area of interest and um uh you know a key piece of this project so there are a couple things that I can share um uh one is that the um the experience and kind of process of learning uh going through the development of the the assessment itself um has helped inform how we're doing the assessment process for the home energy advisor program um that OSI uh is launching this year uh and so um you know uh there there have been some lessons learned in terms of what is working what hasn't worked what that process can look like um and that um a lot of what we've learned and done in the neighborhood has directly supported um the haa program um and similarly I think some of
058that some of those learnings um have has also supported the development of the the rebates program um and general you know we see the haa and the rebates programs as being um kind of like our our first big step in making sure that there's some um resource access and again some of that like especially from the home energy advisor program perspective some of that tailored um individual Pathway to zero support um and understanding what that can look like um and so so that's one of the really big ways that we're we're hoping um this kind of work can can reach the rest of of the community but um the other big one I think for me is just that um we've learned a lot about engagement at a community scale or at a neighborhood scale
059um and that that is what we are are hoping to bring to more neighborhoods especially now that we have some of these other City programs that are coming online over the next year um now that there are some resources to support some of that work now how do we take some of our engagement capacity and some of the approaches and what we've learned doing that in the Bryant neighborhood and do that elsewhere um and you know our OSI team has been expanding we now have an americore team of 10 folks that or nine folks that are focused on doing engagement and education so we we all of a sudden as fairly recently have this boost in capacity to do more engagement um and so I definitely think that the the approaches and the the learnings
060and the strategies that we've we've kind of come to from this project will find their way into more neighborhoods at that kind of scale and approach um especially promoting these new programs coming online Joe is there anything else you would want to add to um to that question no I think you did a pretty good job covering it I think you know the the big thing too and you know as as we look at it and how we you know think about things you know in addition it's always yeah where's you know things coming next but also you know focusing on all the things that are happening here and all the things that still you know do need to happen going forward you know as we mentioned you know the funding sources to date are
061you know up to you know 50 homes and that's not all the way with all those 50 homes so there's still a lot of work happening you know with that and a lot of work still to go on that um additionally some of the other you know kind of um I don't know collaboration isn't necessarily the right word but you know some of the stuff you know with the results we've gotten from this just in terms of like showing results showing success um it's it's really informed a lot of the other Grant applications we have that have gone out and that are coming in that are looking at um other areas particularly uh some of the more affordable housing sites you know working with Ann Arbor Housing Commission um Avalon housing and a couple you
062know just just to name a few so a lot of you know being able to say here's the work here's how it's happened and that's leading to um you know helping us secure more funding helping us secure more opportunities to be helping in some of those um you know some of some of those developments as well um so more is happening and will be happening because of that you know just being able to show you know we have been doing this kind of work we've been doing this engagement like Jordan said we've been doing the you know technical work as well um and you know showing how that can translate and then being able to work in additional areas with additional funding um for um you know additional uh places that have excuse me a
063particular a particular emphasis on Equity as we go great by har did you have it in comments or did you get your questions yeah it just it was a followup and and you had sort of briefly alluded to this a little bit but I was I was I was thinking just thinking about the cost per home for some of the retrofits and and updating and things um and I think it was $40 to $60,000 or something like that per per unit um on you know on average and so is I'm I'm curious with respect to sort of questions about scaling but also with respect to the incentives and the sort of different actors that might be working together in this both in terms of grant funding but also DT or others um you know what
064what's possible in terms of a you know one I guess the first question is are those hard costs of 40 to $60,000 or is any of that sort of also offset by incentives and rebates and things like that or is that sort of an additional piece of things that um might be possible in the future as the sort of as some of some of those in some of those programs come online um and also there's a clear tension that you just described which is for DTE the individual homeowner or or resident has to be the one doing the application but then also these other programs are more at the OSI level um or city level and so um I'm wondering just if there are ways of learning about how we might sort of align some
065of these and bundle them and and try to try to um pull it all together yeah absolutely I think that um you know we've we've been focusing on on some of the the initial components of the project and our our first few funding sources but the long the farther we go in the project the the more emphasis that we're placing on to you know how do we really stack resources and then you know outside of the the the grants and the funding that we have how do we provide structures for residents to then access the other program resources right like you're mentioning um and so we one of the things that you know I mentioned briefly but didn't provide a lot of detail is that we're now um offering office hours um where residents can
066come in um and we can help them walk through application processes for for different programs um in in the case of a couple of our programs we we actually still need to do that for ours as well um uh but like we are actively exploring um you know if there are additional programs that we haven't considered yet that we can help people apply to um you know how can we how can we stack those um and also to uh to answer your question about what is considered in that cost um that is like a very back of the envelope just from some of the things we've seen of our our current work um uh but as far as I know like that that would not include offsets for rebates or or like Ira tax incentives
067for instance so um so that would be that would be a separate consideration great stuff um Jordan I have lots of questions you know this is super close to the work that I do um and I just want to say um I'm also super impressed at everything that your team has brought together and is delivering um um I see that as the most Cutting Edge work you know that I've seen of this kind like in the country so it's pretty cool to see it happening here um just from the financing stack and the people you're able to access the U collaboration with Community groups and um all that so that's super cool but I'll ask you one just one question um what do you feel like you need to move forward like what is what
068is a major roadblock to success that you currently have yeah I feel like what's sticking out to me is is how we you know really support some of this transition for households that don't qualify um for some of these um more stringent programs you know because that's that's where the bulk of our actual retrofit dollars are right now um and you know uh it's it's still a a pretty big barrier um for a lot of folks you know financing all of this on their own is is you know not very feasible um and so thinking about ways that we can provide better access to um to those folks that are like kind of just above our our income limits like that's a real struggle um and then also with the the eye toward um hopefully
069implementing the district geothermal system at some point like we'll definitely need resources and support to do um you know HVAC swap to geothermal heat pumps that's going to be huge you know the implementation dollars would go a long way to getting a a a system installed but again we have to go back to the individual household level and say how do we how do we provide the resources to make sure that you know the houses that we've already done a lot of that efficiency and weatherization work that would be like such Prime candidates to really benefit from this geothermal system like how do we get that heat pump in their house um that's going to be kind of a big question for for the next phase especially if we get implementation dollars cool okay well
070I'll follow up with you on some of that um commissioner L do you have a comment before we move on uh yeah I know we've been going for a while here I I appreciate the presentation first of all um one thing that I sometimes think about um is like how there's like similar homes and I'm wondering if the bant neighborhood has like a lot of similar homes and possibly there's some sort of lessons in terms of like I mean it's great to go in and do all these audits but it's also expensive and I'm wondering if there's some sort of cost savings and learnings that we can get from like very similar homes like I mean typically in my understanding like the first couple things that you want to look at are like the attic
071insulation and I mean this is obviously very generalized but often times the basement as well and you can maybe not necessarily have to do audits all the time I'm just wondering if there's any cost savings or ideas around similar houses yeah I definitely can share that um you know it is the case in the brght neighborhood that uh I think there from the original development there's two dominant floor plans um so again almost all the homes were built within two years or like two or three years and the majority of the homes have one of two different floor plans so there there is a lot of of similarities and so um I think we have been seeing from uh some of the assessments that we're we're finding some consistent um you know uh issues or
072or things that are coming up in the assessment process um for sure the like the insulation is one um again we've we've been finding that U for a number of houses the the drainage concern you know we need to be checking the cross spaces for um for flooding damage or for drainage issues um as far as uh what a strategy might be for um like rethinking trying to get everyone through the assessment process we haven't really like strategically work through what that might look like um because right now we're also kind of using it as an engagement tool for people to get invested into the process um and since we do have funding for some of those incentives to kind of engage in that um that has been an effective way to get people to
073kind of uh come to us with like oh okay um now I'm a little bit more aware of what's going on in my home and now that we've had this assessment you're talking to me about resources that we can do to kind of facilitate that um but I think you're right that it's worth considering how um you know if if we kind of know what the the average house looks like you know is that process the the correct process for every single household in the neighborhood um I think that's a a reasonable question to to consider great thanks for spending this time with us Jordan we've we've learned so much um about this uh process and I know you'll be back to update us later in the year so um thanks for doing that yeah
074happy to join thanks for having me cool okay so I would like to um switch it over um commissioner overp are you still prepared to present tonight yes um it'll be a little quicker um yeah well just one sec so just I just want to outline the plan so um let's have you present and then we'll have a conversation and then we'll take a five minute break and then Jen certon is going to join us for the final presentation um so that's kind of how we're going to move through the night so I I'll pass them back to you sounds good to me you ready to roll okay let's see why why okay everyone can see it someone can see it great um I want to talk really briefly tonight about uh how climate change
075is proceeding and we've had quite an interesting year so far last 12 months and I'll allude to some of the reasons why but I'm really happy to see um folks really moving out on climate action because I think the re the motivation to do it is only getting stronger um I'm not going to talk about the impacts of climate change on Michigan uh in a comprehensive way but I think it's um worth noting as all of you know as the CL climate warms the atmosphere going to hold more moisture so one of our biggest impacts in Michigan and indeed much of the world is um more intense rain when it rains um the odds go up that the rain will be coming down harder um so that's affecting rural areas and farms in Michigan it's
076also um of course busting dams and causing uh considerable suffering in South East uh Michigan here's just something that came in the uh fifth US National Climate assessment last year just showing how big the change has been in terms of the percentage of water rain falling in the heaviest 1% of events in the midwest it's gone up 45% already and as most of you know we have warmed the planet um between 1 and 1.5° C so we're getting associated with this more intense rainfall but of course more flooding too and it's a direct um result of a warming atmosphere and to give us a little more motivation uh where it is raining the atmosphere uh is dumping the water uh harder and faster than ever before but where it's not raining the same atmosphere that
077is uh warmed and can hold more moisture is demanding more moisture from the land surface and vegetation so other parts of the world uh paradoxically are getting drier and more drought prone while we get wetter and more flood prone and one of the more iconic droughts that have developed is in the Southwest us uh where um people still talk about getting water out of the Great Lakes and that's one reason why we're spending a lot of time um making sure that we understand this situation and hopefully my dog isn't disturbing everyone she's going to nuts okay I don't think they're going to take water out of the Great Lakes but the whole High Plains of the United States are also drying out and they're pumping the groundwater um unsustainably so big swap of the United
078States are where we have agriculture in the case of the high plains in summer in the case of the Southwest in Winter um we get a lot of food from these two places are um going to dry out unless we stop climate change real quick uh the other thing that's really everybody is probably already well aware of is that last summer through now has been um warmer than ever before uh since we had theom on the planet and on a global scale and the scale of the uh record is is really unprecedented it really the temperature jumped um a quarter of a degree uh Fahrenheit and that is exceptional uh and the discussions you often see if you're paying attention is that is this due to global warming or is this due to the alinia
079and as you'll see in a second I want to make the point that it's um it's due to global warming so here is uh a graph that was in the New York Times where the debate has taken place uh and it's quite a debate uh I think it's pretty uh settled but there are still some very prominent scientists um including Mike man a gentleman a close friend of mine who uh just won a million dollar in a lawsuit against a couple people who were defaming him uh over his work on climate change uh he doesn't think there's been an acceleration and a lot of it is just what do you mean by acceleration um this is this graph shows you Global temperature over the last um or over the instrumental record since 1850 and you
080can see around 1970 things really started to um speed up no one debates that but then there's this other debate is it accelerating even more recently and in in this particular data set from Berkeley um Global temperature you can see that the rate of change has gotten more steep uh some other records don't show that um but this is the one record of atmospheric temperature that shows it so from as far as Zeke's concern a prominent climate scientist it is accelerating and there he wrote a great piece in New York times and then this is my favorite quote about the whole thing uh Jim Hansen who was uh my pooc mentor um the guy in 1988 was the first person to get appear before Congress and say uh climate change is happening we can observe
081it um you know it's just making the point that uh you almost have to be a damn fool if you don't think uh it's climate change is going to accelerate he's not calling Mike man a fool uh they both get along just fine um but he's just saying that we're going to continue to see an accelerating problem and here there have been a couple studies that have recently been published that really make it clear what's going on and this is I think my favorite this is by a group down in Australia what they've done is they've looked at all the records uh different types of Records in situ robotic um I don't think they use satellite uh but they're using all the insitu measurements of ocean heat and they're putting them all together and they're
082getting an answer about what's going on with ocean heat why ocean heat well it turns out 90 over 90% of the heat trapped by greenhouse gases is absorbed by the ocean and if that wasn't taking place of course the atmosphere would be a heck of a lot warmer and we'd certainly uh be complaining even more than are already um but as the ocean takes up heat um it also can start to saturate and the amount of heat it can take up uh so that appears it might be happening but the most important takeaway is um This Record just a second I got is that bothering you guys I got to shut if SS came to the door Cy I'm sorry about that um so uh if you look at the red curve that's the actual
083record of ocean these guys looked at decadal averages and you can see that the size of the bars the blue bars give you a u indication of how uh much heat was accumulated Each decade you can see there's been a steady acceleration in the M heat that is piling up in the ocean and this makes another really important point is that um a lot of folks are saying well it's the alino um that's producing This Record warmth and the last uh big jump in global temperature was during in El Nino in 19 I mean in 2015 16 um This Record jump was much larger than that one and the thing to realize is that because the ocean is warming when an elino occurs you get more heat released by the ocean into the atmosphere than
084normal um or less taken up um but that heat uh any heat we're getting out of the ocean is anthropogenic uh it's been warmed by humans so what do you think's going to happen next summer it turns out that uh we're going to switch over most likely to a linia again uh so that will probably mean this coming year won't break the record again um but on the other hand there is it is possible that it will okay the other reason we really have to worry is not just because uh global warming is accelerating but we're getting closer to what we call tipping points and there are lots of tipping points and this is out of the national assessment as well that was just published showing where all uh of these tipping points are and
085a good example of a Tipping Point uh is the loss of ice sea Arctic sea ice um and that's been moving faster than any I think scientists thought possible and um as we do that the uh Planet becomes less reflective and more heat gets staken up so that will accelerate the global warming but it'll also start really messing with a lot of other things uh like more polar vortexes in the winter um another thing that could happen is uh the Boreal forest uh the great uh Conifer Forest that go all the way around the circum Arctic could uh burn up and loow and behold last summer we saw evidence that that is also speeding up and then it's it's also showing another one that is occurring is that permafrost could melt and if permafrost melt
086melts it could release a lot of carbon dioxide and methane into the atmosphere again becoming a amplifying or positive feedback and they're quite a few of these U tipping points that have Global implications but I just want to end by talking about one last Tipping Point that we've crossed and I think this year in Michigan is a great example of the future and that is the death of snow I actually got quoted uh saying that I'm not sure I meant to say it but uh it was in the Free Press and uh but I do think it's true what's going on around the world at um northern mid latitudes is snow is becoming a lot less common and at the same time we're getting more snow further north where people don't live uh in greater
087in you know in dense uh concentrations but you can see in this map all the different watersheds in red colors where snow is disappearing really rapidly and it turns out this study that was just published this year uh makes the point based on observations of snow around the world that uh there is a Tipping Point where when you reach a temperature of 17° fahit average winter temperature um after that point every degree of of of warming causes a much higher um loss of snow so we are really beyond that Tipping Point now and throughout North America um in these areas that are shown in red we're going to start seeing a more precipitous decline in snow cover and snow pack and this will have huge implications out west but it also means this is one
088reason why we're getting more intense precipitation because we're starting to get intense precipitation uh in Winter not just in the uh spring and and summer and another thing to note that I just saw in the news I think two days ago three days ago uh is that uh for the first time there was a tornado in uh February in Wisconsin so things are really changing so the whole point of this presentation is to clarify anyone who's really following the scientific debate that uh it is getting worse and it's getting worse faster uh climate change is accelerating so it's really important uh that we really move faster than ever in Michigan across the US and around the globe um to Halt climate change and uh it's not too late to save the day and moreover I
089think it's a uh potentially a massive economic engine uh if Michigan and the Great Lakes can lead in uh the all of the Technologies necessary all of the solutions and not all technological uh that are needed to hold climate change because the entire world is going to be willing um to uh provide a market for these Innovations so thank you I'm happy to ask any answer any questions that you might have 11 uh if you don't mind I'm curious if you could talk briefly about one of the Tipping points you didn't mention which was the I think you had a more technical term for it on there but the global conveyor belt that goes through the Atlantic and the idea of that slowing down and stopping and what I mean I tend to hear that
090that's going to make Europe cold but I haven't heard much about what it's how it's going to affect the US yeah well thanks for asking that one I I sort of promised to keep this short um so I didn't include that but uh just in the last week another study was published by Danish colleagues where they um you might have seen it in the news it's pretty big news uh they did a simulation you know they did a much higher uh climate simulation uh higher resolution climate simulation that uh for the first time allowed us to test the hypothesis that increased Melt from the Greenland ice sheet which we are observing would uh make the waters in the North Atlantic uh less dense and would not just slow down the ocean circulation in the Atlantic
091which we've been observing but could actually stop it just like in the movie uh the day after tomorrow uh which when it came out all my colleagues were like uh that is pure non-fiction I mean pure fiction that could never happen it turns out in a in the uh 2007 ipcc uh report that won the global uh the the Nobel Peace Prize uh we argued a lot about that and um my uh colleagues uh who were really bringing the paleoclimate data to the whole debate were arguing that this could happen particularly this German guy named Stephan ramsdorf and um my other colleagues who were relying solely on models uh that were not high enough resolution that were too crude didn't have all of the processes necessary to really evaluate this they were saying since we
092couldn't simulate it we couldn't say it could happen but now we think it could happen to answer your question uh and well make it even worse Noah it could happen in this Century um and the nice thing about this modeling effort is it it started to identify ways that we could actually get a little early warning so and I think that's very crude at this point but the the goal here is to to really know uh exactly when it's going to happen before it happens um and so how it affect the climate uh Europe will get hammered uh it'll get much colder and stormier uh Europe it'll be drier um and uh it'll be uh a much worse disaster than the global warming alone of course most of the earth will still continue to warm
093um and in North America because we're at the same latitudes uh we'll see some cooling along the you know in uh in closer proximity to the Atlantic so the closer you are uh you'll get you we will get some cooling uh but as you get further away from that the the warming will over whelm it and a lot depends on how much warming we have before this thing shuts down my guess is that we can avoid this particular Tipping Point uh if we're on the trajectory we're on now but that is not a it's a guess we don't know that for sure so you can bet your um bippy that every climate scientist who can is going to be trying to really look at this in a much more uh you know close fashion and
094and figure out where the points in and how real it is but we are really a little more i' to say we're a good deal more scared than we were a year ago this has been an exceptional year in in the kinds of changes we're seeing around the planet we really do have to Halt this sucker all right John like to cut to the chase you're I noted your takeaway uh I know our primary mission is to advise Council on policy decisions uh knowing what's going on in an arbor and knowing what you just presented is there anything that you recommend policy wise that we should be doing that's it well I I really love what an arbor is doing and the aspirational carbon neutral by 2030 I think is great uh someone has to
095be that bold and in Arbor hopefully has the wherewithal to um at least get close if we don't pull it up um I think the big thing is we need to figure out and for me personally I like to think of what's going and the university is going to um hopefully soon announce a much bigger climate initiative uh aimed at speeding things up not on campus alone but off- campus and I think that will be a big help but I think we really have to figure out how to change the policies in Michigan and Beyond but Michigan Pro provide a you know a place to start and I think a Tipping Point for the nation if we can pull it off because we're not a you know liberal East or West Coast State we're a
096a purple State uh you know industrial Legacy or Rust Belt State um you know we are a state that if we can pull this off at high Northern latitudes anybody can so I think we really just need to uh figure out the policies that um keep DTE from you know stalling this thing and the other utilities I mean consumers is better than DTE I think but they are certainly both of those utilities are a u Public Enemy Number One when it comes to making this happen and happen fast um but at the same time I think we also have to embrace all our fellow citizens in um other parts of Michigan rural parts of Michigan and really help them uh understand and get the benefits of uh a fast energy transition that they deserve um
097by virtue of their land being used for the renewable energy for the battery storage uh Etc um so a big part of the M University of Michigan's initiative is going to be trying to narrow the urban rural divide the wealthy less wealthy divide and ensure that everyone in an Environ you know benefits so this is environmental justice just as doing things for you know in Detroit to help marginalized communities there's Justice the idea is we got to be more Equitable but we really need uh to break the backs of these utilities from slowing things down because if we don't get off gas really fast we're cooked and if you all remember when our a DT U colleague came and visited us with with us um he actually made the statement that they hope to be
098uh selling just as much gas in 2050 as they are now that's insane you know that's the you know that kind of attitude is the death of the planet and you know I'm I'm focusing on DTE here but it's really the fossil fuel industry and the utilities more broadly I don't I don't mean to just make them sound like the only um you know enemy of what we need to do here but they are most Pro imate one and I think we Ken Garber you know he made a good point earlier today they're doing everything they can to slow us down and uh it's taking unbelievable courage I think and Innovation to to um figure out how to slow them down instead speed up the energy transition okay Gabriel thanks I you you know you
099pointed to a number of particular Trends um for the mid you know for the Midwest the Upper Midwest for the Great Lakes um and I'm thinking for ant Arbor for Michigan for the Great Lakes are there sources of information that might help folks who are thinking about decisions now that are going to be locked in place 10 years 20 years 30 years from now and you know whether it's what they're doing with their homes how they're thinking about neighborhoods um whether they're thinking about what kinds of equipment to install are there sources of information about um sort of the direction and intensity whether it's temperature whether it's precipitation um things like that that you would seek out that might help um folks who are working on these kinds of things sort of better maybe adjust
100their expectations around what's happening now because we're always sort of biased towards well here making decisions about here we are now but if if we're thinking and trying to anticipate say 10 20 years into the future at least um is there a sense of where folks might go for that kind of information to help them calibrate the some of the kinds of things that they might need to to think about um and and even for even for the city and and for policy uh for what's happening with an arbor well there's you know two things you know there are two things we got to do uh one is we got to Halt the problem uh we got to mitigate the problem we got to find get off of fossil fuels and we got to do
101a few other things that are hard to do we have to decarbonize Agriculture and the Food Systems which is pretty hard to do um you know for example we all have to start eating a little less meat um because that is really uh you know a big problem in terms of greenhouse gas emissions um and there other things um so we have a lot of ideas and you we can go and look at the uh state of Michigan's my healthy climate plan my being spelled Mi um and you can get a a a pretty good sense of the kinds of uh changes that are necessary many of which take place at a a home level U but the really important ones take place at a more utility scale um and neighborhood scale and Community scale
102um but then uh we also have to become more resilient in the face of the climate change we cannot halt um so there's a lot of debate about are we at 1.5 degrees you know the Paris agreement already uh and the answer is no you know that is a it's GNA be a sort of a decadal level of uh you know continuous sustained warmth um but we're getting darn close I think uh it's not going to be mid-30s it's going to be in this decade uh and by my guess or estimate and um so we are going to probably end up stopping climate change closer to two or two and a half degrees see above pre-industrial so that's a good deal warmer than now and that means all the things we're seeing happen are going
103to get worse and the National Climate assessment sort of lists those um but they're um you know more uh longer warmer heat waves extreme heat uh more flooding uh dry spells in the winter and the in the summer are going to end up being uh more um made worse and into turned into droughts probably that'll bring a wildfire component uh Eastward into Michigan won't just be the smoke probably at some point um you know our Lakes will become ice free this winter is a good example where we have very little ice on the great lakes that will change and and enhance precipitation that much more um we W have snow um so you know we know uh qualitatively all the trends that were predicted long ago are all happening now uh you know more tornadoes
104in cold season um things like that as well more severe storms um we don't know exactly the quantitative uh um you know nature of these extremes um in exactly what chronological uh location going into the future um so that's something the scientific Community is going to continue to work on is to provide the specificity the quantification but we kind of know everything that's going to happen so uh that means you know that the Great Lakes water authority is very interested in figuring out how to deal with more uh flood situations in in their service area including Detroit no-brainer you know um was I had a lunch today with some folks um the private sector talking about what could we do um to deal with all the flooding and you know their n nature solution natural
105solutions they technological solutions these are all the kinds of things that will continue to innovate uh to uh improve um but uh we have the information now on the trends and therefore anyone in Michigan can get a pretty good handle on what's ahead for them qualitatively and what they should be preparing for you know when you're on a you got a place on the on the lake a lake uh you know more extremes uh so more high levels and low levels in lake level could create a real erosion problem if you've got a a lake house or something on one of the Great Lakes so you know it the list is uh but the National Climate assessments not a bad place to start they have a website you can find it online published last year
106it's pretty up to date great thank you so much for um the presentation um a lot of good signs in there and it's good to hear the the top lines too um so we can go back and and share that with others that aren't as close to it um we're going to take a brief a f minute break J I see you're on thanks so much for joining um we're going to have you uh present to us in just five minutes if that's okay we're going to take a break uh feel free to go off camera and um we'll come back at um at again I made you a co-host so you should be able to share screen and all that when we get back but if you need anything let me know while we're
107all coming back I wanted to um just open up uh for any questions any clarifying questions I know we've just received a lot of information um and had some great discussions but if there's anything um that anyone has questions about tech technology terms or anything like that um we'll take them for a couple of minutes everyone comes back online yes I got ice cream in my in my break so you'll have to deal with that okay okay last call for clarifying questions all right just know that there's always an opportunity for anyone who has clarifying questions to ask them um you can raise your hand you can also blurt it out so um feel free to do that Jan will turn the meeting to you um you are next presenter tonight all right good evening
108everyone and it's always nice to deal with the energy codes a very um Dynamic kind of presentation at the end of a meeting so we'll try and we'll try and make it interesting anyway um yeah I wanted to just kind of give a a an update and also a bit of an orientation on uh codes basically basically code adoption in Michigan so the um Michigan energy code is um was first we first had an energy code in Michigan in 1977 um and it is based on a an international code called the international energy conservation code and um by legislative mandate we're supposed to update this code every 3 years the last time we updated the code was in May of 2017 so obviously we're not meeting those mandates uh just to give an idea of
109where Michigan stands um among the states with um energy code adoption we're kind of you know in the middle bottom of the pack um however uh in process right now is our energy code update which will bring us into um ashray 90.1 2019 and the iecc 2021 so that would bring us into the the sort of Darker blue um components and we're in fact jumping a code cycle because we're so far behind in our code adoption so the codes all uh building codes are basically administrative rules and the legislature has at Authority for that code process to um laara and the Bureau of construction codes um and just an idea of the codes and how the energy code works with the building codes is there is a residential building code and there's a residential um
110energy code which is we adopt the iecc and then there's a commercial code which adapts both the IC and ashray 90.1 which is a voluntary standard and it's an alternative kind of compliance path within the commercial code um existing buildings so if you're renovating a building um it depends on the level of Renovations uh how that the energy code intersects with that specific code the code adaption process is just like any administrative rule um so that means there's a an established process within the state and basically there's um the department in this case BCC would submit a request for Ru making there are Draft rules that are um published and they have to do a regulatory impact statement with a cost benefit analysis there's a public hearing it goes to um a it they put
111together a what's called a jcar report which is a a joint uh committee on uh rules which is a bipartisan um uh Committee of the legislature and depending and then J Carr can either act on it or they can kind of pass and then it automatically becomes adopted so um this rul making process we actually got all the way through last year to jcar and they pulled the rules back um there were two reasons for that uh and one was um Eagle was sued over one of the regulatory impact statements and so uh uh any of the rules that were in process needed to go back and um re U kind of uh rewrite their regulatory impact statement and there were also some uh there was some imprecise wording that was pointed out so where
112we are now is we're back at um a public hearing um State and that public hearing for both the residential and the commercial energy code is going to take place uh February 22nd in Lancing so um and just an idea of um these the the codes um ashray as I talked about is a voluntary standard but it's a it's a um compliance path for the commercial code and um ashray is sort of an engineering society that publishes those standards and so the ICC and ashray every three years they come out with their um updated standards so guess what it's 2022 um there's a new ashray standard out and the uh new ICC 2024 will be published by the end of the year so even though by the end of this year Michigan will be adopting
113um what is the is ashray 2019 and iecc 21 the new codes will be out so even though we're jumping a code cycle we're still a little bit behind so um then I just to give you an idea of where we are with all the different building codes so Michigan has a the building codes are a State uh code mandated code we have a single state construction code which includes Plumbing mechanical electrical Rehabilitation um and then the energy codes so it any Authority having jurisdiction can only adopt and they can't be any less restrictive or more restrictive than the state codes there's no local um uh leeway with any of these these codes there are two building related codes that do have um local jurisdiction and that's the fire code and the City of an
114arbor adopts its own fire code AS do most uh municipalities and the housing maintenance code and the housing maintenance code is the one is the basis for the green rental housing ordinance um that's moving through so those are the two codes that have any kind of uh local leeway so um it just to give you an idea we're moving through kind of all of The Suite of 2021 codes except for the electrical code and the electrical code has always been um the most rapidly adopted um building code in Michigan so they're on the um the 2023 which will be effective a series of building codes that'll be effective um in March um a little history on the adoption of the energy codes the commercial energy code is actually more stringent than the residential and even
115though I say residential uh the residential uh energy code applies to um multifam buildings that are three stories or lower so um so what we've really got is a residential code that is less restrictive currently than the commercial code so the energy Improvement that we will get by adopting this new code is much greater from the residential standpoint than the commercial um some of the highlights of and I'm doing ashray 90.1 the commercial code um the most of the requirements get more stringent and things that were best practices are now required um rooftop units have gotten a pass in the b in the past and so they're ramping up the efficiency of those and what's really uh I think important and this is in the residential code too there's a there's a performance mandate so
116you have to have a third-party commissioner um for most buildings that are over 10,000 square F feet to do envelope commissioning and commissioning your systems this will help uh building performance dramatically um in the in the residential code we do have um blower door testing um and the insulation requirements are also increased um so this is it it should improve the performance dramatically of both the commercial and the residential um however uh it the codes are only as good as the design professionals the construction professionals and the code enforcement and it's pretty notorious around the state that there is not equitable equal enforcement of especially the energy code and one of the um the funds that iig has that the state has applied for is um the uh training uh throughout the state of professionals
117plan reviewers Etc on the energy codes as we adopt the new codes because this is something there are Provisions in the code that um do need to be um enforced and um and that really rests on all the local jurisdictions for implementation um I think the state really has done a a relatively good job of primarily adopting the iecc um as um the international code is written I think there are two um what they fine-tuned in this round were the appendices and in the residential code there is an appendic called RB um which covers solar ready residential um which requires basically uh adequate roof space an electrical panel space Also it has to do with some um um just allowing for um electrification so it doesn't require an all electric building but it um uh
118it facilitates um the transition and there's a a same a similar appendix for um commercial that is kind of solar ready commercial and some of this quas aligns with um the incentives that the IRA have for um housing uh there's a uh an incentive per unit for developers that they can use and so um the the code gets us um most of the way there actually so this it it's an improvement over um what they were proposing the last time uh what they're not adopting uh is appendix Cc or RC and this would be a requirement to have onsite or off-site Renewable Power um it doesn't ban gas but it certainly um promotes electrification in all electric buildings and ing those electric buildings by Renewables um there was and this is not in the current
119um um regulatory impact statement this was a impact statement issued earlier um but the Lara's position was that it was just one there's electric capacity problems and two it makes things much more expensive um for um for Builders and so it has to pass a certain return on investment by legislative um mandate and um it so in any event it it's we're still I'm still going to Lancing and advocating for um both appendices r c and CC um but I'm you know I'd rather have a rapid um adoption of the code at this point I think um so uh I want to kind of do a little bit of a a look ahead um currently um you know 90.1 ashray has no requirements for Onsite Renewables however in the 90.1 2022 there is a prescriptive
120requirement for on-site Renewables now prescriptive means you can trade it away um for doing other things around efficiency Etc but it there is a requirement and this is the first time um mandatory Renewables have been added to um uh uh ashray and ashray has um internally recommitted to their uh Net Zero standard by 2031 so we're we're going to be looking at ashray to definitely um continue to uh promote a standard that provides for NetZero construction by TW by at least their 2031 um uh standard so um and that's sort of their their um reaching that Net Zero Energy by 2021 or 2031 um if you're interested um these are links to um the current code information when you go on to these links you'll you'll see the draft uh rule language and what's really
121difficult about the draft rule language is it it's the administrative rule which references the code and so you have to go into the code to get all of the um the sort of prescriptive uh measures of the code and um uh the the public hearing is is held at the um at the uh State um Historical Museum is that right the state museum in Lancing um there's um Senator shank had a a bill that was called Senate Bill 274 and this bill was really interesting um because the intent of the bill was to require carbon neutral zero net Energy new buildings by 2027 um and uh I do not think that this bill is going to go anywhere I think um the climate bills have they've done what they feel that they can do and
122they've moved on to some other legis legislative priorities this year um but it was a I think it was a good effort um and perhaps um you know at some point in time something like that could be legislated the other piece of legislation which would be great to have is require automatic adoption of new energy codes um and that would um eliminate um the um eliminate the lengthy kind of code process that we have um all of the codes are vetted very early um you know through the IC process and ashray uh code process so those you know those are those are options that we have for um getting more rapid um energy code adoption there are a bunch of states that have um what they call stretch codes or allow municipalities to adopt um
123more strict energy codes that would have to also be legislated uh legislative action so that could that's also another possibility but um just talking with the uh the Democrats I just I don't see any more climate legislation what they've done is great um it didn't get us all the way there but it's better than where we were that's for sure so anyway that's um that's sort of a a code summary energy code summary and I'm happy to to answer questions uh we did have in October and I can send anyone a link we did have a um a a recorded uh I have a presentation I guess on the uh 20 um the 2021 energy codes primarily the commercial one if people are interested in sort of the code getting into the code provisions of
124that thanks Jan it was very enlightening I'm a bit of a code nerd myself um it's a whole language isn't it yeah yeah yeah totally so um again I just want to make the call for clarifying questions there's a lot of information there folks if you haven't know don't have this intimacy with the code um definitely ask Vice chair harp question yeah thank you so much that was great I um I was just going back through the regulatory cost benefit analysis um that I believe is provided around the ruem and I and I was I was specifically looking because a lot of what gets thrown out and you add a slide to this of The Upfront construction costs associated with implementing the code change and and I think both with respect to the net net
125zero appendix but also with respect to the switch between 2015 and 2021 and I think if I'm reading this correctly it it identifies um about $4500 on average um between the different climate zones in Michigan for crawl space heated heated basement or slab type construction for a single family prototype house um as the construction cost difference um between the 2015 code and the 2021 code um similarly for multif family the average is somewhere around maybe 1,700 um per unit increase in between 15 and and 2015 and 2021 and what I'm wondering is relative to The Upfront cost is there a sense of what the net sort of operation cost difference um that we're expecting to gain or um from some of these changes in partic because they're making the claim obviously that that the the
126cost the uppr costs are so much so what I'm wondering is how does that how might that translate over the life of the home and ownership you know ownership or or rent um both in terms of efficiency but also in terms of of potential savings from from making these changes or how are you thinking about that might be the question asking all of the codes go through um the the national they have a a couple of uh National Labs that actually do the number crunching and one of the things that we have to realize is Michigan is going from um you know we're skipping 2018 so it is much less of a shock if you keep on that know three-year Cod cycle um I'd have to go back I I think that Energy savings was
127uh around 10% for the residential increase it was less than that for the commercial because um the home builders have a a huge lobbying effort they actually um uh sued the state um uh around the very first um residential code energy code and that's also why the commercial energy code is required to be updated every 3 years the uh residential code is required to be reviewed every three years and updated every six years so the home builders really influenced the energy code Le legislation but yes there is a um and I and I'm sorry I I don't have those numbers in front of me but you're right they do do a very specific uh cost analysis based on the different climate zones and the differences between um the codes yes they do council member Briggs
128um thank you for that presentation there were a lot of and I have to go back and listen to it again because there were a lot of um questions that I've had that got answered through that presentation and um a lot of good material one of the things um that I was wondering if you might be able to provide a a few thoughts on our um in terms of our developments we're often we obviously can't go beyond um what is um been adopted and um but there are a few exceptions to that potentially um in terms of our planned unit developments which would often come into residential commercial um code um Arena or into the commercial code and then if we find um opportunities to incentivize and where folks are going you know reaching to
129um doing more than what we require um but thinking about it within that framework one of the one of the things that planning staff and Planning Commission struggle with sometimes is just having an objective standard um to be able to kind of rely upon and so this is one of these great pieces that's been thoroughly vetted but you also mentioned sort of the challenges around um uh code enforcement and knowledge of knowledge of the latest code and so I'm just curious if you have any thoughts around if we were to let's say within the peut um framework um have one of the community benefits be for example that um you know the developer has has is utilizing the latest commercial code um I'm just curious what your reaction or thoughts are to that amongst many
130other things of course as well yeah so for instance the latest published um energy code for instance um yeah I think you can I think you can do that one of the um downsides are I think uh there's been less use of the Pud um in an arbor as you add more um you know incentives that maybe don't make as much they don't pencil out for a developer um it's much more streamlined to just do a byri development um the other issue and I've talked to three current developers that really do want to go all electric and there is no reliable uh service from DTE um they can't they they can't commit to a schedule if they do go all electric at this point in time so you know I think there is um uh
131you know from the industry uh you know they they really uh they're really trying to take A2 z um um uh to heart and try and and do those things um but like I said if you can't get the power there when you want to build your building um or even the U ofm is having issues getting the Transformers there for their new um residential development velopments um so there's a there's a real supply chain issue and um um a a grid capacity issue yeah so yeah zoning is a an instrument that you can use and I know I'm Planning Commission chair at Scio and uh we're trying to align some of our incentives and so forth with uh inflation reduction act incentives to see if we can push it um a little bit further
132um with developers um we've had you know some luck with um you know several projects doing um you know one megawatt solar uh within their developments and so forth um but yeah like I said it's it's tough because if you if the incentives don't pencil out uh they don't really do any good if people aren't going to um take advantage of them yeah commissioner mski thanks Jan I have the same question question of VI that I posed to commissioner peek and that is our mission as body is to advise Council on policy issues um what if anything is a take should be a takeaway for us uh within our sphere of control or influence that should we be doing on on a policy related to all this code related stuff yeah that's um that I
133mean that's a that's a really good question I know um Ann Arbor did sign on to um Michigan environmental council's um um uh position statement um for energy code adoption um and I think internally policy-wise um I think it's you know the zoning ordinance and you know it's it's kind of an interesting there have been several communities I think one in Canada that have actually eliminated um certain zoning requirements in their Transit corridors um it's and uh in exchange for um um increased energy performance building performance I think the other thing that um policy-wise uh cities have done is one I think the benchmarking ordinance is a great start um Philadelphia and a I don't know which other uh cities have a a building tuneup ordinance um because it's not I agree that the new
134construction needs to be um certainly um Net Zero um but we have a huge existing building stock and I I'll tell you we do not have efficient existing buildings in an arbor we have uh I think one of the from a policy standpoint one one of the best things you guys can do is the green rental housing ordinance um that's going to have I think a wider impact than the benchmarking ordinance um and that's leverage that you all have now right on Jan couldn't agree more okay um other questions before we close out our meeting Jan I have a question for you um you say you're going to the hearing um can you tell us a little bit about what what happens there what do you expect um knowing that comment period is closed um
135if that's the case um yeah where are we at in the process and what do you expect from the hearing yeah so you can actually um I believe that you can also email um comments um you know uh to be entered into the record at the hearing so the hearing uh they call it the order uh the last time the hearing uh the hearing was held up for both codes at once and I think there might have been 10 people um that participated in the hearing it's always good if you you participate you hand in um a a written copy of of what you um present um and it's entered into the record um and it's you know kind of similar to a public hearing that the Planning Commission might have or city council um
136run very similarly um the uh home builders I'm sure will be there last public hearing they entered in a a notebook it was literally a notebook um into the record so like a thick are you saying it was thick as a notebook or like someone's actual not okay I'm sure it was extremely factual okay moving on um any other comments here all right well thank you so much for joining us um really timely and and so I'm so glad we were able to have you on um i' really like to join and um so I may come out um but I have to get my head in the game in terms of what I want to say in particular yeah we're coordinating a little bit with the Michigan um environmental Council and so forth so
137um yeah be glad to share any kind of notes and so forth okay I I'll reach out to you um that okay thanks appreciate it thank you again morning all right all right all right all right where are we at um okay so we're going to move on to the last segments of our meeting here um we're going to move to report from staff and I'll take OSI updates first Joe do you have any updates for us yeah sorry threw me I just about to say thank to Jan and then here we are but um yeah um yeah just noting a couple things I know that we've um just on a couple things that we've both talked about here uh as well as whether be recently or over the the past bit but just noting
138that a couple of the various programs um are going to be kind of ramping up soon here in the spring slash early summer um as most are aware the home energy rating disclosure goes live um in March so that's going to be really ramping up the assessment structure is getting um you know C some of those final Nails in and figuring out you know how that all works but that that's taking place soon um Additionally the uh home energy advisers that we talked a little about as well as the rebates we' talked about both today but also in the in the past are um in very active uh planning and should be should be rolling out here again in the next the next few months um you know spring SL summer um so be on
139the lookout for those um I know we've again talked a few times as well as it's come up here uh green housing um similarly in progress um I think I've mentioned before but for those who haven't heard it's it currently in legal review working through that process um and getting everything um you know set on the legal end before moving forward with that um relatedly that's not a word relatedly um we've you know talked about the energy options analysis looked at it here um we're currently going through as well as working with some third party firms to review the model that was presented in the report um to you know validate the findings make sure everything you know looks looks right and stuff like that um so should be more information coming for that um
140in the next next few weeks here so be on the lookout for that um that's most of what I have um similarly again if you want to learn more about the home energy rating disclosure as well um that'll be the topic of the next uh sustainability series um in the in the Forum there so attend if you are interested in that as well thank you Joe can we have some updates from Council Members if there are any sure I'll provide a quick update um folks might want to take a look at um we just had a work session last night um an economic development um report that our um Deputy City administrator put out and there's a a long long the presentation is short um but there's a long report associated with it and a
141bunch of appendices there are some sustainability recommendations within it as well but um U of note in it is um there are many things of note but um to share here there are in addition to the sustainability recommendations there's this um piece of asking us to essentially State our values um um u in terms of Economic Development and embrace um you know State very clearly our our need for more housing in the community and making housing a a priority for the community as well as sustainability and and couple of other values associated with this as well but um that does create some tension that I just wanted to report here as as we've mentioned a few times um tonight there are as we're trying to build our way out of this housing crisis um we
142are hitting isues with DT grid availability and also um and also what we're allowed to um require by right within our code so um we're we're looking at ways to incentivize and and and go above and beyond um and to streamline the process so that it makes it more affordable for folks to to integrate that in but um encourage folks to at least skim the report and if you have any thoughts um certainly send them our way great hearing about that capacity issue again okay Council Rina do you have anything to share council member breaks just hit the big one that I was going to bring up as well so thank you for that council member cool right let's get our update from the environmental commission commissioner mki uh two topics were a primary concern
143at the last meeting the first was a discussion of a draft resolution uh that the commission considered for the first time last year and then again in the meeting at the end of January that would uh make a recommendation to council to in that actually the environmental commission would support uh a recommendation to council that Council uh go ahead with a phase two feasibility study um that's that did not move forward to a vote um I don't know if it will come to a vote um I assume that it will be considered again uh but that's the the the municipalization through uh condemnation of dte's assets and looking at what the cost of that might be there was a phase one as everybody probably remembers a phase two would be roughly U $500,000 so that
144was considered um but uh tabled again uh the second topic is uh we had an update on the 10,000 trees initiative um that's going extremely well uh good news is that uh the proportion of trees being planted uh that our native species has increased significantly and there's also um some potential movement to um create a local Nursery so that we're really getting uh genotypes that are are really suited for um what we are uh want to be seeing here in in Ann Arbor um so those are the two topics um while I have the floor I'd like to comment briefly on Ken garber's comments and the discussions um that we had um about this uh Supply issue and grid issue I want to read from an article in M live quoting um Jerry noria who's
145the CEO of DTE who appeared at a groundbreaking at at the um uh Broadway Park West development on the Huron River and he said at the time quote an arbor has a goal to reach 100% renewable energy by 2030 and DTE is very committed to partnering with the city to achieve this very aspirational goal and ambitious goal and he went on to say and we're proud of the fact that we can be a part of this journey within the city of an Harbor so uh as I've been emphasizing with my comments earlier advising Council Council should really hold dte's feet to its fire or in this regard and it's really irresponsible that DTE cannot support developers wishes to go all electric so that's my two cents thanks okay great thank you for sharing all right
146we're gon to move into to our did I forget anything this is a part where Everyone likes to say I forgot something okay all right uh so we'll move into our last opportunity for public comment um folks have the opportunity to speak for up to three minutes if you're watching on CTN please call tri8 78899 or 877 853 5247 and enter the meeting ID 956 8718 7876 this information is also displayed on the meeting agenda and the video feed City staff will select color that have raised their hand one by one using the last three digits of your phone number this was done earlier to electronically raise your hand please press star n on your phone and you'll hear an automated announcement that the host is allowing you to speak and please move to a
147quiet area mute any sounds so we can hear you clearly and again state your name and address at the beginning of your comments do we have anyone on the line do not have anyone on so I think we're good to move forward quickly move on just kidding um okay items uh for the next agenda does anyone have any pressing items that they'd like to post here yes commiss 11 uh I don't know if this is like something that um is an easy question or an item for the next agenda but I remember a while ago we had the um don't remember what it was so the DGA had this pilot program where they had a solar in one of their parking lots and I was there the other day and it uh it's not there
148anymore so I'm guessing it ended I'm just wondering if we can get an update on what happened with that and if they're going to expand it or if that's maybe I missed the memo There Was an explanation of this already but anyway Jo you have an yeah I I'm not sure if it's the exact same one but I we there was a um there was a property that had had a car port it was recently sold to a different um you know a different unit and as part of that the um carport came down so it can be relocated to a different um area that's that's owned as part of it I'm not sure if it's the exact same one there that's part of it the one across from the farmers market that sounds right
149I just I I I've heard like the update but I don't know the exact details that that site's being developed that that site's being developed into affordable housing so that whole parking lot's going to disappear so that's probably why it was uh taken down in preparation for the development of that line okay right we're g to bring the meeting to a close um so it's currently 8:20 p.m. and as chair I declare this meeting adjourned thank you so much for your attention I think we had great comos tonight so um thanks all for participating and we'll see you next month good night thanks all