001Good afternoon. I want to call this meeting to order with a moment of silence and the pledge led by Ms. Hill. Please face the flag. Salute. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. As public notice, board members met this afternoon in executive session at 430 in room 549. Mr. Dupler, would you mind giving a brief explanation of that meeting for the public's benefit? Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. As an exception to the Open Meetings Act, this board and other boards are allowed to meet with the law director's office to discuss pending litigation and claims. There are no deliberations had during this time, so that's why it's able to be
002a closed meeting. There's a couple different cases that touch upon this, Smith County v. Anderson and Van Hoosier v. Warren County. Thank you so much. And I would like to recognize the elected officials we have. I know I saw Commissioner Schoonmaker and Commissioner Randy Smith. Thank you for being here. Did we miss anyone? Thank you both for being here. And thank you all for joining us this afternoon. A few announcements. The Joint Education Committee will hold its first meeting for this school year on Wednesday, December 18th at 4 p.m. in the A.J. Building first floor boardroom. The primary topic of discussion will be career and technical education. Board members, you should have received information via email today regarding an additional item to be added to our December 11th agenda regarding a Walmart community grant for
003West Valley Middle School. They did not receive notification of the grant until November 26th and would like to complete their dance floor project during the winter break. So Superintendent Thomas and I agree to the addition of this item for your consideration. Also, before we consider changes to this work session agenda, I am requesting that we hold discussion of the Intergovernmental Memorandum of Understanding with Knox County regarding the relocation of the Knox County Schools Central Office prior to discussion on the consent agenda items. Are there any other requested changes to tonight's work session meeting? Do we have a motion to approve? Okay, we have a motion by Mr. Norman and a second by Ms. Owen. Discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? Motion carries. And also, I did not note, but Ms. Satterfield is in route. She's
004stuck in traffic, but she'll be here shortly. And I'd like to refer to Superintendent Thomas for his report. Thank you, Madam Chair. If I've got a mic, there we go. Okay, thank you, Madam Chair, members of the board. Just a few updates since we last met. I'd like to begin by noting two former chairs of the Board of Education in the city of Knoxville. Congratulations to India Kincannon on her election as Knoxville Mayor and Lynn Fugate on her election to the City Council. Both India and Lynn are great supporters of Knox County Schools and we look forward to working with them in their new roles. I'm especially excited to report that during the Square Hand Ceremony for new city office holders on December 21st, students from Vine Middle School will be singing and students from...
005The Walmart Magnet Academy will be leading the Pledge of Allegiance. I know these students will be great representatives of our school system. I'm also pleased to report that two of our schools were recognized last month for their work in STEM education. Farragut High School was honored by Newsweek Magazine as one of the top 1,000 STEM high schools in the country. In addition, U.S. Assistant Secretary of Education Frank Brogan visited Beaumont Magnet Academy and got to see the school's STEM curriculum in action. Had several board members present as well. STEM education is crucial to prepare students for the careers of the future, and these recognitions highlight the tremendous work being done with Knox County Schools on science, technology, engineering, and math disciplines. Finally, I'd like to remind the board and our KCS community that the last
006day of school before winter break is Friday, December 20, which will be a half day for students. I hope that our students, staff, and families enjoy the chance to rest and spend time with their loved ones during the holiday season. And we look forward to seeing students back in class on Tuesday, January 7, 2020. Madam Chair, members of the board, this concludes my report for this evening, and I apologize for whatever's going on with the amplifiers. Thank you. Thank you, Superintendent Thomas. Would you also like to introduce our project grad update, please? I would be glad to do that. The board a couple of years ago, well, I guess it was. 18 approved a memorandum an agreement with project grad and part of that agreement was that project grad would come to the board in
007December and this is the first report based on that agreement that was approved so very honored to introduce to you and I think many of you know Ronnie Chandler who is executive director and and chief executive officer for project grad so we appreciate you being here Ronnie very much and look forward to hearing from you on your Thank you so much. Thank you Ronnie. Go ahead Madam chair members of the board. Good evening. I want to thank you for this time because this update provides a baseline for For some future reporting a lot of important information has been included but rest assured and relaxed. I'm not gonna go every word You can also people who are listening can download the full presentation from the board's website I've included the vision and mission for Project GRAD.
008Also, I want to call our attention to what we call our wildly important goals, the three goals that guide all of the work and the partnerships and the sponsorships that GRAD does, increasing K-12 knowledge of post-secondary options, access, and pathways, increasing the high school graduation rate, and increasing post-secondary enrollment and completion. Greg works with the district to serve 7,000 students in 14 schools. The demographics of that look like 48% African American, 18% Hispanic, 33% Caucasian, 1% self-identify as other. 86% are economically... disadvantaged reported locally. However, from Nashville, that number is much lower because they don't include people who don't report public assistance or those who are not eligible for public assistance. The Enduring Challenge of Concentrated Poverty in America report has a statement that says, concentrated poverty exacts a grave day-to-day toll on the people
009who continue to live in its midst and threatens to perpetuate disadvantage across generations. And for that reason and many others, KCS needs the community's help. There's also a listing provided of the schools that we serve. This is another representation of the demographics. The blue shading represents white students. The orange shading represents African American students. And the gray shading represents Hispanic students. Project Grad is on the left. Knox County District is in the center. And then the state is on the right. Just as a reminder last year's budget for project grad K through 16 included the following three sources 500,000 from the agreement with Knox County Schools The agreement does stipulate that those funds can be used only for high school expenses and we did honor that 365 came from the one-time Knox County government funding
010735 from our private sector donors either through great schools partnership or directly to grad And it's important to note that that operating budget does not include the leverage supports of the scholarships, the summer internships, the summer institutes, the laptops, nor grant dollars. Grad has 18 full-time staff that, and 14 directly serve kids every day. The memorandum of agreement includes three metrics. The graduation rate uptick by 1.5 each year. The second one, post-secondary enrollment, increased by 2.7 each year. according to National Clearinghouse and other accredited institutions, and metric three, senior cohort members that are eligible for the Project Red Knoxville scholarship. So looking at the baseline for the memorandum for school year 17-18, the baseline was 76.51 for AE, 72.28 for Fulton. The metric goal was 77.66 for AE and 73.36 for Fulton. And the result
011was 81.07 for AE and 85.65 for Fulton. And the graduation rate information was provided by Knox County's Research Evaluation and Assessment Office. For metric two, the baseline for the increasing post-secondary enrollment, 39% AE, 48% Fulton. The 2.7 metric goal was 40.1% AE and 49.3 for Fulton. And the result for the class of 2018 was at least 50.8% AE and 51.7. point nine percent fortune now the baseline data only includes information from the national student clearinghouse father seventeen eighteen data includes that and additional accredited institutions that is because the clearinghouse is a paid subscription organization and not all accredited organizations pay for membership in that clearinghouse t cat not so being an example Neither grad nor KCS can account for AE and Fulton graduates who enroll in accredited non-clearinghouse institutions who are not grad scholarship recipients.
012We can track students who receive our scholarship because they have to come to us every semester for disbursement, but there may be students who decided not to earn the grad scholarship from Austin, East, and Fulton who are attending those institutions that we don't know about. And grad scholars have one year from high school graduation to enroll in higher education. For the third metric, on the number of senior cohort members eligible for the grad scholarship, the baseline was 34.64. The metric goal was 4.5% at 36.16. The result on that one was 38.6%. So we know that success is cumulative, involving many partners, and we did exceed all of those metrics, but we know that it was not grad alone. Grad is providing intentional supports with 18 full-time staff and an army of volunteers to assist a
013collective impact approach. Grad aligned intentional supports as the agreement requests that help move the needle. Population-specific interventions, population-specific tutoring, college and career fairs that expanded the trades, caseload support, support of our school's makeup marathons and blitz, senior success nights, graduation team meetings, and our team took assignments for what we call hot list students. And then we continued the I will graduate ceremonies. For the post-secondary enrollment in Metric 2 intentional supports, we continue the grad $4,000 scholarships, the laptops for those scholarship recipients, college and career fairs that included a Latino college and resource fair, college tours and grad visit days, admissions and scholarship, application assistance, assisting with college app week, FAFSA. We have a partnership with Tennessee Achieves to make sure students are applying for that. ACT support, college signing day support, our undergrad 101 summer
014workshops so students don't have that summer fall off, that melt, and they continue to progress toward actual enrollment. And then our College 1000 course in the Pellissippi State Summer Institute that was added last year now provides an EPSO for qualifying students within that summer institute. For metric three, we continued partnerships that provide summer institutes, student supports toward graduating on time. We established student goals through the grad scholarship contract as well as the scholar success plans. And then our board approved a grad transfer scholarship policy so students who are transferring in with high ACT and high GPA can still do a grad summer institute can qualify. And we also provided academic supports and interventions. Additional holistic programming that supported our high schools, the metrics, and grad included mentoring, job shadowing, STEM supports, including using high school
015students as presenters. We have a student foreign exchange opportunity, AE Rotary Interact Club, field trip experiences, life skills and character development, classroom presentations, straight-to-work guidance, and we also have continued our presence and assistance with school-wide events. We know that we have to remove barriers in working with the population that we serve because both of our high schools are located in communities of concentrated challenges. Some examples of that support include food assistance, emergency and crisis support, homeless support, housing assistance, referrals from school staff, guidance, students, families, clothing assistance, transportation, food assistance, holiday assistance, school supplies, prom and graduation support. 92% of the students that are served by grad reside in our city's five highest needs zip codes. We also know that none of us is as good as all of us, and so we support creating
016networks of support, community luncheons, youth serving partners opportunities, community engagement, collaboration. Our work with Covenant Health has created clinical opportunities now for Fulton Health Sciences. We worked with our... school counselor colleagues to create a resource document for options for students who are leaving high school without a diploma, student experiences and exposures, and post-secondary partnerships. And this list is not conclusive because it would have taken a whole lot more slides to include them all. Additional grad leverage supports continue to be provided by both high schools in fiscal year 19 by partners and sponsors in private sectors. beyond the metrics and the funding. And I'll draw your attention to the third picture from the left. The gentleman in the center is Corey Hodge. He's a grad kid. He worked for grad for a while after college at
017Whittle Springs Middle School. He's an award-winning author. He awards his own scholarship, and those are two of the gentlemen that received that. Corey now teaches for Knox County Schools at Maynard Elementary, and his ultimate goal is to be the principal of Austin East High School one day. Additional grad leverage supports for the high school, 126 grad scholarships, 44,000 rates for the laptop telethon, 280 students completed the summer institutes and received a $150 stipend valued at $42,000. 21 students. were placed in our hands on the future summer internships earning more than $25,000 collectively. Some of the places where they had those internships were Fletcher Marketing and Public Relations, Harrison Construction, KCDC, several places within Knox County government, community development, environmental health, communications in the health department, the library children's room, McClellan Museum of the Library, Parks
018and Rec, Public Works, the Knoxville Chamber, RNL Credit. Union, Pellissippi State, Shacher Insurance, SMG Events, TCAT Knoxville, the Carpetback Theater, and the UT College of Engineering. Grads K-8 supports are important in providing a continuum. Aspirations are built. Families understand the pathways. High expectations are set. Hope ignites the students' own responsibility for personal action. And students and families get the message that they have choices and options for futures that are attainable. Early awareness and exposure is essential to promote a post-secondary culture, strengthen aspirations for higher ed, build confidence for students who are underrepresented in both higher ed and the trades. Then continued support throughout post-secondary has to continue to help these young people persist to completion. We provide that continuum through what we call our network of persistent connections, basic needs, academic readiness, exposure and experiences,
019life skills and personal development, 21st century skills, finances, higher ed journey supports, and we do that K-8, 9-12, beyond 12, through internships, institutes, apprenticeships, regional alliances, and data, working continuously with families and neighborhoods and communities. Across the pipeline, what support looks like to build on each other is important. At every level, academic achievement is an emphasis. At every level, exploring interests and talents is important. Then developing those interests and pursuing those interests, and then providing support through high school and throughout post-secondary, that continuum continues and builds on each other. Some sample K-8 activities we provided this last year were two K-8 coaches that served our feeder schools on the one-to-six ratio, grad early awareness programs at several institutions, grad urban brilliance, hands on the future, pilot event at the Change Center, leadership clubs, college and
020career fairs at the elementary level, the senior stroll, and classroom presentations. At the post-secondary level, our two success coaches support all Austin, Easton, Fulton graduates. They provide our undergrad 101 summer workshop, the send-off event in the fall, home for the holidays event in December, campus visits, intervention visits, crisis support. Care packages from home scholarship renewal fast full renewal grad visit days and college tours at several colleges We have a College Board of Advisors campus ambassadors on several Campuses and they use lots of apps and social media and they always create a where they now video for our board meetings 545, that is the number of post-secondary credentials that have now been earned since the first 2005 cohort of Austin East and Fulton scholarship recipients. And they are working all across the community and the world.
021There's a Knoxville firefighter, a Knoxville police department officer, nurses, teachers, including teaching abroad, five attorneys, engineers, paralegal, HVAC tech, physical therapy doctor, biochemist, stylist, barber, dental hygienist, three flight attendants. Army recruiter, a children's author, pastor, social workers, a respiratory therapist, high school and college sports coaches. There are three alumni on grad staff full-time. One alumni from grad's first 2005 class was recently appointed to the grad board of directors. And one grad alumni is the board of education representative for several grad theater schools. RECOGNITION OF GRAD SUPPORT IN 2018-19 INCLUDED BY THE NATIONAL COLLEGE ACCESS NETWORK, THE WOMEN'S FUND OF EAST TENNESSEE NETWORK. WE WERE CENTRAL HISPANO'S ALI AWARD RECIPIENT. OUR WORK WAS AFFIRMED BY AN EFFECTIVE COLLEGE ACCESS PROGRAM RESEARCH STUDY. I RECEIVED THE OUTSTANDING COMMUNITY ADVOCATE AWARD. SO WHAT ARE WE WORKING ON NEXT?
022THIS IS ON THE HORIZON FOR NEXT YEAR. WE'RE EXPLORING ADDITIONAL Summer Institute opportunities with Johnson University and an advanced manufacturing summer Institute. We're working on a direct-to-work fair We believe that every kid needs a path after high school. We're working with the Change Center on their pilot with UT Medical Center for students who are graduating but they have no plan beyond high school. Our second annual Urban Brilliant STEM event on March the 12th is gonna be an attendance incentive for our 10 elementary schools. We're partnering with Knox County School STEM, Andrea Berry, Pellissippi State Magnolia, and Oak Ridge National Lab to bring the lab's national traveling science. to the entire district in fall 2020. We're developing an electronic platform for our mentoring to connect our grad professionals with post-secondary scholars. We're creating cohorts aligned to
023college majors, and then we're helping to advance awareness of Harmony Family Center's work beyond ACEs trauma-responsive strategies. So I want to say thank you for the opportunity to continue to serve these brilliant kids and families of our center city schools. And I want to close with this slide that looks at the difference between equality and equity. Equity is giving everyone what they need to be successful. Equality is treating everyone the same. Equality aims to promote fairness, but it can only work if everyone starts from the same place and needs the same help. Thank you. Thank you, Ronnie. Very thorough report. Do we have questions for Ms. Chandler? Ms. Hill? Hi. Thank you. That's a very encouraging report. Without question project grad and I mean your work is clearly doing a lot, you know a lot
024to help These kids especially at AE and Fulton. I just just was taking some notes as as you were reading some of that though and Because this is a program that costs Knox County Schools extra money I think it's very important that we can be real specific about about What difference that that those monies are making with our kids? when I see numbers like Like a program is going to help increase grad rates increase a Ct. Increase Post grad how can how can we know as a school board that this that? this increase of one or two or three students or whatever that number might be is because of Project Grad and not maybe just because the school is doing better. Well, certainly, as I said, the work that we do in our partnership is
025cumulative. There is no way to say this is the one silver bullet that caused the increase. What we do know from the feedback from our schools is the presence of grad staff full-time in those buildings, serving students every day at school while kids are there, is a difference maker. And that without that presence there, they would feel a void. That is what our principals tell us. Well, and I certainly could support that. Any school would appreciate extra bodies doing the very type of thing, being able to target our kids. So that kind of goes without saying. Any school would love to have those kind of supports. One thing that concerned me when this project grad... funding came up before was the some of the numbers and the measures that were used because It seemed to
026me what what was presented then and I say this because I want to avoid this in the future when you come back before us that some of the the The numbers like that our own R&D and Knox County Schools came up with didn't necessarily correlate with what Project Grad came up with. And so I believe you brought in someone else to state what you thought the numbers should be. And then I did ask a question about under the GSP, what their research and development had done on Project Grad. and understood that they didn't really have all the numbers to be able to do this. So my concern is that there is a consistency throughout and that we don't get into the mess that we got into a year or two ago where one... group of
027measure was saying yeah this is making a difference another group was saying no it really is not or another group saying it's it's not really the value for the money can you can you help us so that this doesn't happen again? Absolutely, absolutely and let me just say that at the end of the day of all of that the measures that are included in this new memorandum of agreement were jointly decided by Knox County Schools Research Evaluation and Assessment in Project Grad Knoxville. And we will use that baseline reporting. We're reporting on the same thing going forward, so we won't have that issue in the future. Okay. What percentage of the students that are at AE and Fulton, of the entire population, participate in Project Grad? Project grad is a total school program, so that
028means every kid in the school is served by project grad. All right, I should rephrase that. That sign up for the summer institutes and to qualify for the scholarship programming. So for the students who attend the summer institute, it's about those who participate, it's about a third. of the students to this point who could participate. And we're actually right now recruiting for summer institute next summer. Because not every student will choose to do summer institute because they have to give up summer time and we're having to do a promotion to explain to them the benefit of that. All right, so is it fair to say then that those that participate in this extra programming that Project Grad provides, you said it's roughly a third of the student population? Who attend Summer Institute who could attend
029it. Okay, so... How many of these students that do this summer institute and go on to graduate compared to the total graduating class? So students who do the summer institute and enroll in post-secondary, 84% of those students do. Okay. So give me a number. What is 84%? How many kids is that? Let me get my data person up here. So I just want to make sure, if you wouldn't mind restating the question so that I understand what you're looking for. Okay. I think what I heard Ronnie say was that a third of the student, a third of those eligible attend your summer institutes. Right, and maybe a little more. And so when we look at the possibility, we recruit for our first summer institute, which is Pellissippi, the commuter institute from our freshman class. So
030I'll give you an example. We have a little over 200, maybe around 220 students this year who are freshmen at Austin East. Right now, about 140 of them would qualify. But to go to the summer institutes, we look at GPA, we look at attendance, and we look at behavior. Then there are also requirements like parents need to attend their parent information session so we can make sure that everybody's on the same page and hopefully have successful completion. So when we're looking at numbers, it starts there probably more like 75%, but then we have these qualifiers and the requirement of parent attendance, and then it starts whittling down from there. Once the students get there, we are looking at generally between 98% to 100% completion once they get in the institutes. Okay, so how many students
031is that? Okay, I'd have to get back to you because this is our 18th institute, so I don't have all those numbers in my head. Well, like from last year, how many would it have been? From Pellissippi, we had, let's see, about 100, a little over 100 from Pellissippi. From University of Tennessee, I'm pretty sure that was like 103. That attended the summer institutes as project grad scholars and then graduated and went on to post-secondary. So the pipeline is starting, we require two summer institutes. I understand. So going to Pellissippi, going to a second institute, that's step one. and then graduating on time with a minimum of a 2.5. And so from the class, I believe we're looking at 40% of the graduates receive the project grad scholarship. Once they receive that scholarship. 40% of
032the total graduating class. Yes. Okay. Receive the scholarship, and from that, about 85, it fluctuates, will enroll. That's where our secondary coaches come in to make sure that those that get the scholarship continue to receive supports and will enroll in a post-secondary institution. So we actually have a list of students, and we can forward that because we track those very closely. We're giving them a check. So we have the names. What would personally be more meaningful to me and perhaps other board members too is instead of... giving the percentages, talking about actual numbers, given the total enrollment at Fulton and the total enrollment at AEs, the total number of seniors in the graduating class, and then breaking it out from there of this number, this number were project grad, and this number went on because,
033you know. percentages can be made to sound very impressive when in fact when you're looking at numbers it might only be Two or three or four people and not that every one person isn't Valuable I don't mean to imply that at all but given the amount of money that is spent just making sure that it's it's you know it's focused in the in for the for the best of value to really Help so these kids that make it through this they've pretty well been weeded out there could they're the kids that are going to be successful because of all the requirement in the four-year process. So what they've done is to, they've built their own ability to continue forward. So I would just like to add, too, that the information from which the percentages were
034drawn, we have those actual numbers that we can send to you from REA. Okay. So we can provide that to you. Okay. So we have that. And I also just want to remind the board that we honored the board's request that the dollars, the $500,000 that is in the MOA be applied only to high school costs. And so none of the summer institute costs were provided by that. by that agreement, but we're happy to provide whatever information that the board needs. Right, and I appreciate that you did that. So it was, last year was 500 from us, and then I believe the County Commission kicked in or contributed also about 360,000? Correct, because the K-8 and post-secondary wasn't there. So that was about 860,000 then that just went to the two high schools. No, no,
035that was K through 16. Their support provided K-8 support in post-secondary and the additional high school costs that were not covered by the $500,000. Okay, so it was the $500,000 then that the board contributed then was used strictly in the two high schools. Correct, as the board requested. Great. Another thing that would be very helpful to me also, oh, one more thing about the numbers. You said since, I believe you said 2005, you've had... 545. Pardon? 545 for secondary credentials. Correct. So is that about a 10 year? Well, that's more than a 10 year period, isn't it? That's just scholarship recipients. Okay. So that breaks down to roughly 50 students a year. Correct? That's correct. Okay. Okay. And I mean, my question is, how do we know that, that. Project grad how do we know
036we wouldn't have had 50 students? Without that well, that's what I'm trying to get to so as we heard before as you referenced our Experience last spring one of the biggest indicators is we hear from the students themselves And a lot of those young people that we serve are students from low-income circumstances, many are first-generation college. And so it's likely that many of them might not have made that without that additional support. Okay. And I certainly concur. Absolutely, I concur with that. I think it's a little misleading when you put this 545 number out there implying that it is because Project Grab was there, when in fact we know that some of those were. I mean, some students were going to make it anyway. That's all I'm saying. Sure. And another way of looking at
037that statistic is nationally, 11% of students from low-income circumstances complete post-secondary. And Project RAS scholarship recipients are completing at a rate of 45%. And it's because the additional support that they receive makes a difference. So this 50 a year is about 45%? It's about an average. So that's the 40. So the number I was trying to get to. is roughly 50 a year. That's an average. Okay, that was my first question was asking that. And one other thing that would be very helpful in future reports is a lot of these things that you mentioned when you talk about intentional supports and student support services, life skills, classroom presentation, food housing assistance. college visits, these kind of things. I personally think it's very misleading to Fulton and AE both. to imply that if programs like project
038brag weren't there that this list of Supports that you listed wouldn't be happening and I just I just really don't think that that's a fair Apples to apples thing either because a lot of the things that you mentioned are what? Every high school does including Fulton and AE for our kids. So I agree. There are also some intentional things that only grad did at the high schools. And you can ask the principals that those supports were provided by Project Grad. Okay, and that's what I'm asking for, that in your next report you weed it out. Yes, if Project Grad were not at AE and Fulton, they would not have gotten X. Why not? Intentional supports and student support services because that I just personally feel like that muddies the water because as I said So
039much of this is already going on in those schools and would be whether project grad was there or not So I'm just looking for a truer picture in the next report about the difference sure sure why they'll give that that Would not be and there is some of that in the other part as well the population specific academic interventions like for the Hispanic student population the refugee population Student athletes are our students from Burundi providing tutoring in their language Those are some things that are provided other places well, but in fact they are but I'm not gonna argue that but I'm just saying I Just just be more intentional, please Just be more intentional because many, many of those things that you listed are things that aren't necessarily about Project Grad per se. Certainly, and
040we absolutely will do that. And it may be helpful also in the future reports for our schools to provide you some information directly that you might want to hear from them as well. Well, I mean, any person's welcome to come at any time, and I appreciate the testimony from the students. I take nothing away from any supports that we can do to help it happen for all of our kids. Again, we are charged with fiscal responsibility on this board and making the most of every dime that we spend. I appreciate that. Thank you. Mr. Norman. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Chandler. I'll be brief, and I won't be as hard as Ms. Hill was. Just a couple of questions, and that was quite a presentation. First, I just want to say congratulations for
041your... Obviously achieving the metrics. You've done well in terms of what we're expecting from the things we expect you to be accountable for. I've heard a lot of good things about several parts of the program, especially the Summer Institute. That seems to be one of the real strong places in your program, and we'd just like to emphasize that. I did, in terms of the people who qualify for grad scholarships, I did have some questions about what those requirements were, and I think you went over part of them. So would you just kind of briefly cover that everybody that qualifies for a grad scholarship and is the grad scholarship the same is it that 4k 4000 Scott so they all get the same 4k scholarship, so what is so again just What is what's required sure
042sure those students have completed two summer institutes? We asked every student to do the Pellissippi Institute right after their freshman year a reason for that is because of the promise scholarship And they we want them to be familiar with what a community college campus is like then the following summer They have the choice of either doing a residential at the University of Tennessee or T Cat Knoxville a hands-on experience and the summer institutes are provided at their cost for our students, so they complete two summer institutes, they graduate with a minimum 2.5 GPA, that's a good solid C, and they graduate on time with their class. Those are the requirements for the scholarship. Okay, so no ACT requirements anymore. That was a former requirement. That never was a requirement for our scholarship. Okay. The schools
043that are involved, how many elementary schools, middle schools? There are 10 elementary schools and two middle schools that are in the feeder for those two high schools. Okay, so you've expanded. few schools in the last few years for elementary schools? They're the same for the last 18 years. Okay, and then there was a designation of community schools versus non-community schools. What's that? Well, community schools are all of the elementary and feeder schools that we serve. That means a social service full-time person there is a Great Schools Partnership site resource coordinator. And the college and career access opportunities are provided to those elementary and middle schools by the two K-8 coaches that I mentioned that serve those schools on a one to six ratio. Okay. And then my last one is, now you just increased the
044graduation rate last year at Fulton what percent and at AE what percent over the previous year? That's the first one. I thought it was 12 for Fulton. And 4.5 for AE. Okay. So we'll need to get that from Steve. Yeah. Okay. We can get that to you, but we need that data to come from Steve. Okay. And the last thing, I'll call you. I've got a couple of budget questions, but these are things that will take a little bit of time. So I'll call you and ask you about this. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Norman. Ms. Owen? Thank you, Ms. Chandler. I want to point out that there are a lot of additional things that Project Grad does that can't be quantified. You've given us lots of things that can be quantified, but there
045are so many little tiny things that go into each day for a student to give them the support that they may not have from other places and let them know that they matter. Things like food backpacks, things like small celebrations for... variety of things at school things that just say to these students you are important and there's someone here who cares about you and those are things that I think it's very difficult to quantify in helping students grow I do have a quantifying question though the old numbers I know but currently how much of grads overall funding currently comes from the board The total budget for grad for FY16, excuse me, FY19 is 1.6. From the board, it's $500,000. It moves this year to $700,000. And it stays there for the next four years. Very
046roughly a third. A third. Okay. Yes. So do we have any other programs that we are putting funds into that are giving us that kind of return on our investment? Are we putting anything else in that's giving us back that much? Because we're making a million dollars, basically. We're getting $1.6 million in services for a $500,000 investment. I'm asking anybody who might know. I think that's a good point. I'm not aware, and I don't know Dr. Reiswick, too, in terms of contracting with agencies that provide us educational services. I know we're contracting with the National Institute for Excellence in Teaching, but we've not looked at, and it's a work in progress, I guess, the benefits that we're going to get from that. for additional training and so forth for our teachers. But as far as
047contracting, most of our contracted services are, the bigger part of our contracted services are in the maintenance and operation in the budget, not so much in providing the services that Project Grad provides. Thank you. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you both so much for being here and for your report. Thank you. Okay, we'll move on to the discussion of our December 11th agenda and as you'll remember we moved item e to discuss that first so if we have questions on the Memorandum of Understanding with Knox County Commission and the mayor's office to really coat the central office to TVA East Tower with questions on this miss Owen I have some concerns and some questions. I've been asking quite a while for information about this agreement, and it's been our understanding that the contract has been
048in flux and continually changing, but we still haven't actually seen that. And when we got this MOU, we had nothing, no documents at all. to consider what this MOU actually entails. And so after requesting to see the actual contract, what we got was 23 documents, but still not the actual contract. We got a summary of the contract and a lot of documents that back that up. but we still haven't actually seen the contract. It's extremely concerning to me that we would be looking at an MOU that has to do with a long-term contract that we've never seen. So that's my largest concern. And I'd like to ask Mr. Dupler to talk to us a little bit about the MOU and where it has come from. Mr. Dupler. Thank you, Madam Chair, Ms. Owen. I'm afraid
049you'll have to direct that to someone else. I don't know if Mr. Caldwell is stepping to the mic, so he may be able to answer the question, but this MOU did not come from our department, and we're not signing off on it, so we need to direct that to somebody else. So you're saying the law department does not agree with it? I mean, you don't find this to be more important? So the law department's been working on the contract for TVA, well, between TVA and Knox County. And that contract is rather long. It's still in draft form. There's a lot of blanks. So that's not complete yet. And then this MOU or MOA, whatever it is, like I said, didn't come from our department. And so I just. i can't comment for the wrong i
050don't i don't i don't know who drafted the document mr would you like to comment on that sure first i would say this that the conflicted you're referring to the documents you receive or all the contracts was not any other documents that are coming those documents which are in draft form still but those twenty three agreements are all the contracts that's related to uh... the uh... deal with TVA as far as the MOU is concerned this was something that Ron McPherson and myself worked on and so we were directed by the mayor of the superintendent to come up with what you see in here and Ron and I are both accountants and so it is pretty vague and pretty It's simple, and we think it spells out what we wanted to spell out, and we
051didn't think it needed to be of any more substance than talking about moving and operating costs. Okay. Ms. Bounds? Yes, thank you. I just have some prepared statements that I would like to share in regard to this because I really don't feel like that the board has a choice of much in this because I believe having conferred with our law department that we would be in violation of our oath of office we took as elected school board members and our responsibility to administer our state school and what we're being asked to do is illegal In addition, under the memorandum of understanding of July 6, 2015, Knox County agreed to bring Knox County Schools multiple sites at which time Knox County Schools would determine if any of the sites fulfilled or met our needs. If so,
052we would surplus the Andrew Johnson building. But as far as I'm concerned, Knox County did not fulfill their part in that. They did give us a list of 12 sites that they considered and then basically brought us one that they recommended. So I feel like we... I still feel like we've been left out of the process. And there are three major problems that I would like to enumerate. First, I think it's illegal. TVA is not willing to give up custody and control of the building. And state statute requires the Board of Education to have custody and control of our school facilities. TVA is limiting the use of the building and the certain educational opportunities that will not be available to the schools. without customs and control of the schools. It is a federal building, and
053TVA is limiting government use of a building that they want us to rent. TVA doesn't have to retain custody and control, from what I understand, but won't release it. So in my opinion, that's why it's set vacant for the last 15 years. Because no private entity would agree to do this, but we are being foolishly asked to. Custody and control limits our superintendent's ability to do what the state has charged him to do. It limits him being able to conduct meetings in his office. It cuts out access to parents, staff, and workers. And most importantly, I feel like it could be discriminatory to our minority communities to require a rural ID to access their schools. It is asking too much of the citizens of Knox County and Tennessee taxpayers to not have access to their
054elected officials and their director of school. The second point that I find very troubling, other than Jennifer's point that we still have no contract, so to speak, is the easement versus the lease. And they are not leasing it from what I understand to Knox County. They are easementing it, if that is even a word. And that circumvents the law of leasing. I'm not sure that TVA has the authority to easement a building, and they've provided no document to show it. So here's what I understand. TVA won't lease because if they lease, they would have two choices in five years, to give to another federal department, or after five years, they would have to put it on the market. Thirdly is the cost that TVA wants us to waive our limits of liability and our immunity
055under the law to rent a building. Basically, they could give us the building for free, and to me the price is too high when we waive our limits of liability and our immunity under the law. In my opinion... We say we're doing this to put it back on the tax rose, but I don't see that it's benefiting the taxpayers or Knox County Schools at all. There are some people that stand to make a lot of money from this deal and others who make game politically, but it is not in Knox County Schools or Knox County taxpayers' best interest. And in closing, I would like to say that the definition of boondoggle is a noun. as used as a noun would be work or activity that is wasteful or pointless but gives the appearance of having
056value. And as a verb, boondoggle means to waste money or time on unnecessary or questionable projects. So I think both of these apply to this vote that we're getting ready to look at, which is why I will vote no and why I want to go on record for future generations that I do not support this plan. I'm glad this didn't happen under my watch as chair. And 15 years from now when this all comes into question, I want to be in no way responsible for this action. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Mr. Norman. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Pounds has just covered basically what I'd like to ask questions about also. There's a few items within that, and these are directed to Mr. Dupler. And so I'd like for him to respond to a couple
057of the questions. First of all, in the process, of course, I think we all feel sort of left out. And the original understanding from the previous... uh... mayor's administration was that the school system would be presented sites and uh... actual work on the sites and what would be presented would be done but knox county purchase is that true Mr. DuPont. Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, Mr. Norman, that is what was in the July 2015 MOU between the county and the board. Okay, and Knox County Purchasing has, they have on their staff people that are professionals in the area of land acquisition, blah, blah, blah, properties, facilities, and so on. So they're fully capable of carrying out this task of making a decision or providing us with auctions. Would you say that's true? That's that's correct.
058I mean that's that's one of the purposes of the purchasing or now it's called procurement But same thing okay, so they were omitted from the process and instead in the process was substituted the PBA Why do we have any idea? Why that took place? That's true Is that true? No, that's not true. That's not true. That is not true. Okay. Would you clarify for us? So that process was given to me, which is the finance director of procurement reports to me, and so they were involved in the process as well as PBA and Partners Development. Thank you, Mr. Caldwell. Okay. So. Purchasing what role did purchasing play again? We examined the sites that have been shared the 12 sites and we looked at cost and talked about pros and cons of each side Okay, so
059you think we were fully involved that oh I was in the meetings. I know we were fully involved. Okay All right. In the memorandum, and I guess I'm back to Mr. Dugler. In the memorandum, the law director has offered solutions to each of the questions that Ms. Bounce has presented, which custody control. indemnification, et cetera, et cetera. Each of those, and Mr. Caldwell, you can respond in here also. So each of those had an acceptable solution in terms of the legal aspect. And so... Why I mean why were those or why are those not adequate so I think after a meeting today? Where was discussed over the contract that? You could say that we're down to one issue and that is custody and control I think we have resolved the insurance issue now and and
060talking to the Attorney who's taking the lead on this mark Mamet off? The one issue that law director has a sticking point on is custody and control. Okay, so we're still working on that? Well, I think we're looking to see. We disagree with the law director on his interpretation of custody and control. And I think he and Mark. respectfully disagree on what that says and so there are some solutions we could get some opinions and go from there but I think we're working through that to see what could be resolved okay I don't see mark is mark here marks on a plane as we speak okay All right. Okay. All right. Good. Thank you. Yeah. Go ahead. Mr. Hewlett. Thank you, Madam Chair, Mr. Norman. So Mark Mementoff is the attorney for TVA, and although
061this – That's not accurate. He's our attorney. He's not attorney for TVA. Oh. Yeah. Okay. Well, so he was hired outside of the law director then, and I know that Charlie Sturkey in our office has been working – extensively with mark maddened uh... who who goes back and forth between t b a and the answer to your question mister norman is that the legal problems with the contract that still in draft form at the feet of t b a Custody and control can be resolved by TVA. The indemnity provision can be resolved by TVA. The easement versus a lease can be resolved by TVA. Easements and leases are set out in federal law. So those are the issues. Although, you know, I have much respect for all our county officials. Respectfully, this is not an
062issue between the county and the board because the board has been presented a very financially, you know, that definitely has, yeah, that's a good word, a financially attractive arrangement. That's certainly true. But again, the legal problems lie with TVA. So, Chris, I'm sorry. Come on. So in terms of the issue about lease versus easement So we've got that you think that's out of the way now. I think it's lease versus easement is simply this TVA cannot lease property. It's either a public auction or an easement. And so in Mark's conversation with the law director today, he feels like he can get a letter to the law director that will satisfy his concern of easement. Okay, but the law director contends that federal law allows for a lease. I'm telling you that TVA, which would know
063the TVA Act, I would assume, say that's not the case. Okay. Okay. Ms. Satterfield? Thank you, Madam Chair. Patty, I want to ask you a question. The only time that we have these opportunities to talk like this. So if you don't want to answer, don't feel obligated. But I just I know you kept mentioning not the best use for taxpayers money. I guess I just want to know what is what is the other option? Is it a matter? I know they looked at 12 different things, but if this is a financially. Beneficial opportunity for the board or for Knox County schools, whatever else is in play in the background. I get it I hear what you're saying but what With this solution what will be the best use for taxpayers money? Well, I think originally
064when Superintendent Thomas, before TVA came or Knox County came back with their newest proposal, Superintendent Thomas, who has been here for, well, is an institution, had said that he had been through, you know, many moves and he was okay staying. I know that A.J. needs, I know it's not the best facility, but I'm not sure that we're... Making anything better. I believe any facility can be upgraded Cosmetically, but I'm not sure that we're really getting anything any value out of that. We're not consolidating properties We still own properties all over Knox County and we're not able to consolidate those and so really we're just in my opinion making a lateral move and while I know it's very attractive financially now, and they've continued to kind of dangle that carrot. My biggest concern still lay with,
065still reside in the fact that the law director has not, and maybe will not, sign off on it. And I think that's a very big red flag. I think that... It really troubles me, not just for the minority communities. I think they may be harder impacted, but I think for everybody. I mean, I don't have my star ID yet, my real ID, and I think it's really going to limit, even though they promised a first floor where people can meet. That's not the freedom to come in and out of that building, and contractors. parents, teachers, people from other states coming to interview. I mean, I just see real problems. And while one of our goals is to be more transparent and more accessible to the public. how much more limiting can it be that you're
066going to have to show that real ID to get in? Not to mention the fact that the day I took the tour, I mean, I'm stripping all the bracelets off, all the jewelry. I mean, you know, I didn't have to remove my shoes. But to me, that's very cumbersome. While I really push to get access to this building for our meetings for security, I just don't like the fact that we would be under... the guidelines of the federal government. And I know that in talking with people, we don't know how that's going to look because our school holidays may not line up with federal holidays. So are we going to pay more to have... Them come in on a federal holiday if we're still open it. There's just a lot there So but my probably
067my two biggest issues are other than the three that are outlined here would be the real ID being required for all of our citizens and our taxpayers and the fact that the law director funds and that well It just goes on and on and we don't have a contract yet. So I just I don't see any point in rushing this I'm sorry, but I don't see we benefit as a community, and the taxpayers certainly aren't benefiting from the sale of the AJ and maybe a TIF or a pilot, and 15 years down the road, we're not going to recoup that money. So that's just my opinion. But thanks for asking. It's probably more than you wanted. If I can just say before we move to Ms. Owen, before we move further, that just for the
068benefit of those listening, that it was mentioned that this is financially attractive. Basically, Knox County Schools would not be paying for the build-out cost, and we would not have... utility expenses that we currently pay in the AJ which is a little less than $700,000 per year. So I think over the over the Mr. McPherson would you well would you mind so and if Mr. McPherson jumps in and just give me that number quickly and then we'll move to Miss Owen. Thank you Madam Chair. Yes so what this agreement would do would allow the board to essentially no longer have to pay for Which would I guess would be operating costs which you could be utilities. It would be maintenance costs and so forth That would equate to roughly six almost sixteen million dollars over a
06915 year span such that the board could redirect those dollars into educational initiatives or wherever the board board decided. So effectively what it would do is it provides an infusion of resources to the board that we otherwise would not have. And it would be accomplished through, I guess, it's just a way to allow the board to have, be able to redirect those dollars away from central administration costs, to be blunt, into educational initiatives. And, you know, there's some gaps. We've talked about some service gaps particularly in you know in the areas of mental health and there's some real needs there and so we obviously when when this was put before us we saw this was a you know a pretty good opportunity for us to have some much needed resources that we otherwise would not
070have. Okay thank you. We should have stated that at the beginning so that everybody was on the same page. I apologize. Ms. Owen? Thank you, Madam Chair. Actually, that was a good segue into what I wanted to talk about. The utility expenses that we're looking at are something that we, well, not the utility necessarily, but especially the maintenance expenses. These are things that I don't believe we should be paying anyway, that we've been paying for 20 years. I don't have the legal reference off the top of my head, but I believe what the law says is that the county is to provide offices, not that the county is to tell us where to go and then have a third party charge us fees for that place. So for the past 20 years that we've been
071doing that, that has always been a concern to quite a lot of us. I also want to be sure that everyone understands something that I realized all of County Commission hasn't been told is that our meetings would still be in this building. There's not a space large enough there or an accessible space there for us to meet. So where our staff now brings things across the street in the future, if we were in the TVA tower, they would need to bring all of that here. So that is an extra cumbersome process for a place where we don't even have a meeting space. Homeland Security has confirmed that any federal building that currently requires a driver's license will require a REAL ID. And if you take a look at the federal law around REAL ID, it
072also says that no federal agency can diminish that requirement. if we require a driver's license to get in the front door of that building, then the federal law says that it will require a real ID to get in the front door of that building. So all of these assurances that we've been given that we will have a floor that the public can access, I have not been able to get any confirmation of that from Homeland Security whatsoever. And that's extremely concerning. I took some time and looked at other school districts around the state to look at what kind of facilities they have and I compared them to what we have discussed for many years as being the needs of Knox County Schools and some of those included a campus style location, adequate space to bring
073in services that are currently scattered throughout the county, a location that is easily accessible to parents and community members as well as staff, adequate space to hold public meetings, free and accessible parking for staff and visitors. And as I looked at other districts, some of those I looked at were Bradley County, Cleveland City, Hamilton, Oak Ridge, Sevier, Metro Nashville, Sumner County, Warren County, and it was somewhat random the way I found them because I was just Google searching. Every one of them is a campus-style location. I could not find one in Tennessee that is in a downtown with a difficult to access parking garage or even a parking lot that required a fee. Every one of them was a campus style location. Many of them were either former schools or they are currently adjacent to
074some of their schools. They would even have additional parking space that they could overflow into those school areas. Many of them, actually most of them, have their board meetings there at their central office location. There are very few that do not do that. And every one of the ones that I just mentioned do have their meetings there at their central office location. So I'm not sure why we want to continue with a space that doesn't meet any of the needs that we've expressed as being appropriate to our students, our parents, our communities, our staff. It doesn't make sense to me to move from one inappropriate building into another inappropriate building. So I would hope that the county would look at some options that are more appropriate to what we do instead of just a building
075that They can stick us in. Thank you. Thank you. I have a quick question. I think, Ms. Satterfield, I think you were next. I don't necessarily have. many opinions on either way, but I don't like, I think we have to get past the real ID conversation because that is an issue, but I also know that we're Knox County, we're a school system, so we can create like a campaign around that to where people can actively get their real IDs. That barrier isn't as big as... I personally feel like we're trying to make it. No, you don't need a real ID to do things like drive, buy alcohol, that fun stuff, but you do need one to travel in a plane. And so we do want our citizens to eventually get a real ID, and I
076think that might be an opportunity for Knox County Schools to do a campaign or parent engagement or something in that way of really doing that. So I don't think the real ID is as big as a barrier, but I don't have much opinions about all the other stuff yet. and Ms. Christie or who was next? I was just going to comment on the real ID. Yeah, I was just curious, Mr. Thomas, I know you had reservations about this in the beginning, but how do you feel about this? Thank you, Madam Chair, Ms. Christie. From the standpoint of where I was initially was, hey, move in, move in. We have invested $26 million over time, and those are sunk costs at the Andrew Johnson Building, and we continue to pay space costs. And so my initial
077reservation was, hey, you know, we're moving to a place, and we're going to continue to have to pay even though we've paid for the Andrew Johnson. So, you know, I've been doing budgets, well, assuming I live. through 2020 uh be my 30th budget i believe and uh with the school system so you know getting a million dollars um over the 30-year period million dollars you know It's been hard to get a million dollars infused back into our budget. So I think when I first talked, I said, you know, I don't have a vote, and let me say this too, we'll operate out of whatever place you and the county commission give us to operate. We'll make it work. But I said, you know, gosh, if you could recover the $26 million that we'd invested in
078Andrew Johnson, plus you pay for our costs, monthly costs, then, hey, move us. So it doesn't, the issues that have been expressed, you know, that doesn't solve, you know, those issues. But one thing for me it solves is, hey, here's a million dollars that we can put back into our budget to support students and educational initiatives. To make an offer like that, that's pretty significant because we're going to have to go back to county commission, assuming county commission approves this, and we ask for money every year. So how do you turn down a situation when you're offered money and, oh, no, we won't accept this because we don't want to move? I think moving is going to solve some of the issues we've talked about, no, but one thing it does help with is a
079million dollars we're allowed to. to repurpose for student needs. And we've had these conversations. I've heard principals, I've heard teachers talk about these needs that Mr. McPherson alluded to. They're mental, emotional, social situations that our students are going through and our teachers and principals are having to deal with and budget permitting. If we could take this money and do something to try to help our students and our teachers, then that's what's more important to me as superintendent. than where we do it out of. So I did, I changed my mind. You know, part of being a good leader, and I'm not qualifying myself as a good leader, is hey, you change your mind depending on what the situation is. So I did change my mind based on the fact that, hey, here's a million dollars
080that we can take and redirect to educational deeds. So I support it, but I don't have a vote. And I'll say, we'll make it work wherever you put us. So thank you. Thank you. Ms. Hill, I believe you were next. Thank you. I'd like to start out by saying I agree with you 100%, Ms. Olin, that... We probably shouldn't have been paying all that along anyway, you know But that was something that was in place many many years before you or I either one Certainly had any say about it and it's something that Quite frankly because it has been in place for so long I don't know that would ever change whether we thought it was fair or not. It's just it has turned out to be what it is and this offer that's on
081the table, in fact, appears to be correcting that. So I do see that as a positive. And again, Mr. Caldwell, I guess you might be the best to answer these questions. The issue of security continues to come up, and I understand that PBA is going to be handling the security. Is that correct? Yes, so let's talk about that for a second. Currently to get in the AJ building you've got to have a driver's license and so that's a current requirement. So that's no change? No change and what we have and what we have got from from UT, I'm sorry, from TVA is that Even after October the 1st of 2020 if the real ID is required then if you just have a normal driverless license You will be allowed access to the security controlled Public
082access spaces and so our goal the whole time as we went through programming and designed the space for The East Tower was to have a lot of public meeting rooms on that main floor and so I think that answers that question as far as real ID goes. I'd like to talk a little bit to try to help Ms. Coatney with her stuff, bringing it over. We have talked about, since we learned about this, about giving space here for them to be able to store what you all need. That way it's not carried back and forth, whether it's from the AJ to here or from the East Tower to here. Okay. So I think I heard. Maybe Ms. Bounds bring up building access during legal holidays and all. That is all under the preview of PBA
083security, though. Is that correct? So it will be both. So we will have PBA security and TVA police. And so we have expressed what our holiday schedule is. So what TVA police will have to do is meet those security needs. Okay. So if there's a... Legal holiday, but schools are in session It will be business as usual for for us and if we are in the TVA tower second, right? Okay Would you talk a little bit more about the options that were researched before this recommendation was even made? I mean, I got the impression that there was quite a bit of study put into this for possible locations within Knox County. Is that correct? Correct. Think 12 and I may not get all 12 right, but I'm gonna try to remember the best I can
084and so We of course Looked at the East Tower. We looked at what is the old SunTrust building behind the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame? We looked at What is now the Knoxville wholesale furniture outlet store, what it was an old Kmart off Morrell Road. We looked at a location that used to be the old at-home store off Outlet Drive that was in Farragut. We did explore a lease option with the owner of Knoxville Center Mall. I think we looked at and had been looking at in the past the old Regal headquarters and halls. There's a few more. There's a few more of that as an example. I got that. So there was a lot of research, it sounds like, that occurred before this recommendation was brought to us? Yeah. We looked at leasing options,
085owning options. I mean, everything that we thought was a viable option. So keep in mind that one of the constraints is going to be how much do you want to invest capital. And to a side, right? And so I think if I came to the superintendent or Mr. McPherson and said, okay, also we looked at rural high school. So that's another one that comes up. And so, you know, I don't think we want to invest a lot of money in central, not trying to be rude, but in a central office space. Well, I think the superintendent would say he'd prefer to have that money for schools and education. And so we knew before we brought any, You know ideas what what he would what would would desire? I mean we looked at rural high school
086four or five years ago, and it was 30 Million dollars yeah, I think I'm so you know it's just no There's there's there's restrictions as far as that goes on and restrictions meaning we know what what we think we'd like to spend and so I think that's where that comes from Another thing I had asked you a few months ago. I remember was the the custody control thing and and you had you had shared with me the TVA Act What tell me what again tell me again what that's called and exactly what it says and it does apply Nationwide is that correct? This TVA act so TVA our TVA properties are so TVA have has to they have their own act from the standpoint of how they're they're governed and it's it's unique it's different
087than anything else and so they are restricted in certain things that they can and cannot do and so I think if you look and It's it's not uncommon for them to do easements on buildings now I think most times when you see an easement you see it and land right you'll see an easement through land But they've done easements and buildings and in Chattanooga They've got part of their operations in Chattanooga and so recently I may get this wrong, but recently in Chattanooga, they had an easement on a parking garage that was downtown that they had done with the city government or the county government, and they had to sell the underlying land of that garage. And they did that, of course, back to the government for black. You know a discounted rate because if
088there's a building on land What can you do with the land if there's a building owner? So I think the situations like that so TPA is different. I mean, there's any doubt That it's not a unique. It's very it's a very unique situation But you know we find it very Appealing it's definitely financially appealing the ability to partner with UT and the East Tower is appealing and You know, I'd listen, you know, we talked about her to somebody for bring up Free employee parking that's not my decision But it is something that the superintendent and Ron and I have talked about the potential for free employee parking up there now in the end not my call and so but I'm being is Ron probably hates when I call him because we talk all the time
089and You can't get away. And so we work through things and you know, we get better because of that and You know, I think ultimately Sure, there's a there's a carrot in front of you, right? I mean it is better I think if you look it's it's really a good deal for everybody So even even if this goes through and the AJ building If their developer receives a pilot right they can't receive it if they have to receive a pilot So a pilot is payment only with taxes So they're going to pay something for a set number of years that we're not getting currently right and Does do the schools get money from from pilot payments answers? Yes, we did we give you it up by the by the appropriation of the tax rate right
090and so still something now and also One thing that the schools benefit from is the added economic impact to downtown because 72% of every Penny or a dollar that the city has in sales tax goes to education. So that's not going to change. Okay I May have rambled. I'm sorry. No. No you didn't because I I mean I do think these are things we've been hashing this for months and Sometimes it's it's it is good to hear it again So if if we were to stay at the AJ building What was the rough estimate that it was going to cost to bring it up to standard for the schools? So we'll talk about that because that's the day that the superintendent about hit me, and that's okay. But ultimately, what we did is we did
091an estimate on what we thought would take to upgrade that building to where it needed to be. And so, you know, there's no doubt that. There are immediate upgrades that need to happen and I think we said that was to the tune of about 14 to 16 million dollars now The cost of the ad a imprimis that have to happen We know elevators will be part of that if we were to stay there and so that cost is Is would be added on to that a little bit? The other cost that we talked about that I was joking about is that if we were to renovate the space and make it adequate, what we would call adequate office space, it would be another whatever that number was. I don't, I have it in front of
092me, but it was, you know, 20 million or something. And so ultimately, though, we do know that there's a lot of deferred. maintenance that needs to be done and with the new ADA restrictions we have to do a lot of things we just really don't know what that might look like all right so the number was was 15 million to show you know okay so the school we have the option of moving to the TVA tower getting a full build out basically customized to exactly how the school system would want it to be I Mean there is is it ideal? No am I going to ask? Would I even dream of asking for the millions it would cost to build the ideal facility I Don't think anybody's got the stomach for that So we can
093do that, or we can stay in the AJ, invest many more millions to make it work, and I presume if it's under the agreement we have now, that just gets billed back to us anyway. Well, I would say this, that any capital expenses or any capital requests that are done... As it relates to the request of the superintendent of Iran, they do pay those bonds on, right? And so, but there is also truth to the fact that there have been some. building improvements to that facility that we have paid for over time. I'm not saying that we wouldn't say it's all yours. Honestly, we have probation in there. We have PBAs and offices in there. So not that all that calls will be passed on, no. We would still be paying rent in essence. Oh
094sure, I mean so there's always going to be, and rent's a terrible word for that building. People think you own the building while you're paying rent. Ultimately what we're paying for are utilities and maintenance, security, things like that, janitorial. And so that's the cost that's passed on. So if we go to the TVA building, not only will we get basically a custom build with what's available to us there, but as I understand, a lot of that cost will be offset because half the building is going to be rented to UT, which is not really our concern anyway, but still just for community and for taxpayer purposes, that might be good to know. Our legal community, I don't know if anyone has taken the time to sit down and watch any of the impeachment hearings. I,
095for the first time, I actually sat down for about an hour and looked at what our Congress was going through. And the section, the part that I actually observed was the legal experts testifying. And these were scholars from all over the country, legal, you know, highest credentialed attorneys. And what was interesting is that every, for every. Case one attorney or opinion one of these legal experts made There was a another one that came up right behind them that that basically said no, that's not right That's not how we interpret the law. So it is unfortunate that perhaps the law director's office and and our County mayor's office is is not on every single thing on the same page. And really, I don't know what we do about that because you're going to have, you'll find
096an attorney that will give you, you know, a different opinion. Sure. You don't know if it's right or wrong. I'm just saying that that's what attorneys do. No offense, Gary. It was always right, just so you know. And so ultimately it's this. Everybody has opinions. We have strived to come to some sort of agreement with the law director, and we'll see where we get to. There's even a way to get to an answer on custody and control, and we'll get to that. But listen, you're always going to have disagreements, and that's okay. That's how we work through those. I think Ron has watched the impeachment hearings and wants to impeach me, and that's perfectly fine. But ultimately, what you have before you is an MOU, right? And so it's simple. It's simple because Ron and
097I are simple people. That would go to County Commission if approved and that's what it was ultimately the contract is between TVA and Knox County and And so you are right we have had conversations with UT about the about the top six floors and they have a lot of interest in those and those and want to be partners with our school system and And it's the system. It's not UT Knoxville and so Since so they would pay for their own build out what we have said what I've told her on which kind is what is going to offset the operating cost what they pay for Space cost us as what we're on as part of the way we were passing that along the the revenue from the garage is what we're passing on and so
098things like that and so I Think I think it's it's really good listen Nothing that we could bring before you is perfect, right? I mean, we could always find something wrong with something. And so this was what we settled on. And this is the path that we've been going down. And let me just say in closing, I know you'll appreciate that, that it does seem like there's been obstacle after obstacle, question after question that's come up. And really the way that I feel like... the law director's office as well as the mayor's office and all parties involved do seem to be working diligently to to to take care of These questions that keep coming and coming and coming and issues that come and come and come and I really kind of feel sorry for you
099guys because it's like you take care of one or two and then You know, then there's something else out there. So I do really applaud the work that collectively County government has put into this I do support this. I just don't see with the way that they have sweetened the pot. For whatever reason, call it whatever you want, they have. In the end, it's going to benefit our kids. In the end, we're going to be in a facility that... certainly meets as much as or more of the needs and much nicer than where we currently are. I just, I guess I just really feel like the benefits. drastically outweigh the disadvantage of this. I would say I think you call it sweetening the pot. I think ultimately what the community have is they have a
100superintendent and a mayor who care about children. And so when it was talked about mental health and student services, sure, what can we do to make that work? And then it was, Ron, you and Chris go figure this out. And that's much appreciated, I will say. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Hill. Mr. Norman. Thank you, Madam Chair. Chris, thanks for hanging in there. Just one question. Since it's apparent that the county commission is going to come and bring what we call the East Town Mall solution, I just wanted you to comment on that because it could include, you know, it could involve this question. And so just wanted to see what you had to say. Sure. So probably every day I get asked about East Town Mall. This is great. The examine, what we looked
101at with East Town Mall was a lease. They offered us a lease for a dollar a square foot for a year, then back to market rate after a year. I don't think anybody wants to pay. What I said is we don't pay market rate. So, but now here's the challenge of Easttown. And I know you and Mark are friends. And so when you have a conversation with Mark, he'll tell you some of the challenges. But I'm going to try to break it down to you. There are four parcels of property at Easttown. There's not one. There's four One has just been bought by a developer and that's the Sears property and it not only includes the building it includes parking, okay You have You have the I think Dillard still owns their piece and I
102think Belk still owns their piece and that includes parking as well, right? Then the fourth piece kind of snakes around and you have parking involved in that and that's the part that was talked to us about from from from the developer, so First of all if if we're discussing the whole mall, all right, that's a million square feet of space And so you start talking about renovating a million square feet of space. It's a big number. Now, I know in the East Town Mall solution, it was move Knox County government, Knox County schools, and the courts. It's much more space than we need. But the challenge is the parcels, right? And so I've often said this. We were offered a lease. We were never offered to buy. Could that offer come? Sure, it could come.
103But once again, it's going to become what's the stomach that we, you know, what are we willing to spend to renovate that location? I don't know this answer, but I would imagine that. Upgrade upgrades and maintenance on that facility the last ten years have been very low and so what does it what would it cost us to turn any section of that mall or the whole mall into government and other challenge with that too we have an agreement in this building that So long as cities here, we have to occupy certain percentage of this building and pay for that percentage. And so we can't just move unless the building's done. Right. And so we'd be paying to stay here, although wouldn't completely be used and to move. And so and the question is, OK. Does
104the city want to move I think the city would tell you that currently they want police and fire at the st. Mary's they they went that direction and so I don't think they I don't want to speak for the city because I can't but I don't think they have a desire to per se to move and so there are definitely challenges with Easttown because of the parcels and there's some out parcels that cause other challenges and I think the price tag could be your other challenge, right? So I think I don't remember. I want to think that the Sears piece was just sold for $1.5 or $2 million. I think I may be wrong. We can look that up. And I know the piece that always gets talked about, the big piece, I think when
105it was purchased by Mr. Enderly, I think it was purchased for $10 million, I think. And that's the bigger section. So you have to buy and then you have to renovate, right? I think Easttown Mall is challenging from what are you willing to stomach from a cost perspective. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, next we have, I think, Ms. Spab. Mr. Cole. Call while this is for you. Sorry. Um, I just there's been a lot of talk in the news UT systems is probably going to go there if this works out So could you talk to them about how they're dealing with the real ID issue and like they have space on the main floor? Also, and we've talked about PBA being access and security there but how does that work with the UT system and
106And I don't know if you're the one that can answer those questions. Sure. I think I can so UT have they have to adhere first of all tva has to approve anybody we would sublease to they're okay with ut of course and so but they have to adhere to all the standards that that we do and so we've we've we've shared documents with ut we've talked about security requirements they've not blinked and so and they're you know basically there's what they're saying to us is We want you to get done so we can start air contract negotiation with you to sublease and so They're they're very excited and I think if you follow the news, which I'm sure all you do The board's already approved it right so their their boards approved the president to
107talk and to enter into negotiations and They like the ability to stay downtown to be separate and it frees up Andy Holt Tower for UTK and I think what they're going to do is I know they're paying for their renovated space So they would pay for it for their six floors They do they're there's they're very interested It's so much so that they're like as we work through this contract, you know if you ever want to leave we want to get your space to and so it's almost like added insurance right so because I think for them the partnership is very appealing and we didn't want to talk about that early on because you know you negotiate right but it's been out in the media some now so we're excited about a partnership with UT
108assuming this body and Commission approved MOUs and contracts. Thank you. I think Ms. Owen was next. I have some points of clarification, if we could. The Real ID space on the main floor, I'm getting some conflicting information there. So if you could provide us documentation from Homeland Security saying that that can actually happen, that would be appreciated. We only answer to TVA police. We don't answer to Homeland Security. Well, Homeland Security is who is. over the real ID law. That's true, but I do think what you will find out is TVA is the manager of the building and they own the facility and they are responsible for security. Well, if you could get clarification of that in some way, since this is a federal facility and I can't seem to get that from anyone, I
109would like to hear that actually from Homeland Security. And the next point of clarification, I want to be sure that we are on the same page. It's my understanding that regardless of the management of the tower, federal security will have control of the building at all times. Is that correct? So, sure. So, federal security, keep in mind where you're staying, it is a federal building. And so, federal security as well as PBA security will manage. the access points, but it is a federal building and we adhere to federal security. Okay, so federal security has control of the building at all times, right? Okay, thank you. Looking back at the MOU that we talked about from 2015, where it says that Knox County Purchasing will locate amenable sites and present them to the Board of Education
110for consideration. We keep saying that we have looked at sites, and maybe many of us were not on the board when this happened. Can you tell us what sites were actually presented to the board for consideration? So I think, it's been so long, I believe that as we located sites and we have a spreadsheet that we shared, I think, I know. Let me make that. Sure. Let me clarify that. I'm not asking what was presented to Knox County Schools. I'm asking what sites were presented to this board. So I think what we did is we went through our analysis and we presented, granted one site to a joint meeting of commission and school board. So we presented one. So we've not kept to the MOU that there will be multiple sites presented to the board.
111Correct? I think technically we can. And so I think the last point that I would like to make regarding what legal opinion we should consider is that just as we were elected to represent the people of Knox County, so was a county law director. And if the people of Knox County have elected that person to make decisions regarding Knox County, I think it is in our interest. I believe it behooves us to consider, and not just consider, but defer to the opinions of that law director if that is the person that has been chosen. Thank you. Ms. Hill? Okay. Thank you. Ms. Brown? I just have one comment directed towards that about the law director. At West High School and Bearden Middle School, we have the IV program, which our law director refused to sign,
112even though we were already in a contract with them. Under consideration of every lawyer I know, didn't see a problem except for our law director and their program. So this is not the first time that we have moved ahead with something that our law director did not agree with. Thank you, Ms. Fab. Any other? Mr. DuPont. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just let me clarify a couple of things that have been commented on this evening. The law director is elected to represent the county and the taxpayers of the county. And in my 23 years of practice, and that doesn't include all the attorneys in my office, but in my 23 years of practice, I've had many disagreements with many different attorneys in many different courts. Okay? But... Our opinion, the Law Director's Office opinion, as Ms.
113Owen said, is only to the benefit of the county and this board. So you may get many different opinions from many different attorneys on this. But, again, I'll go back to the fact that... The law director is not taking sides. The law director is not saying you should or you shouldn't move. I mean, you know, I mean, you're saying that this is an attractive financial offer. We agree with that. But there are legal issues with this. And custody and control is probably the biggest legal issue. It's a violation of state law. A violation, not like the IB program, where there were just issues with the contract. There were no illegalities with that contract. But with this contract, if it goes forward as is, and again, we don't know. It's in draft form. As Mr. Caldwell
114said, there's apparently been a development today, I mean, after two years of negotiations. So maybe this will be worked out. As of earlier this morning, it was not worked out. There's still legal issues with this contract. It'll be up to this board. It'll be up to the county commission to vote on what those bodies want to do. And you can ignore the advice of this office if that's what you so choose. But we are here to benefit. the county and this board thank you thank you mr dupler thank you mr caldwell for being here and with no other lights on we're going to take a five minute recess we'll reconvene at 705. please all right so if we if we can look at the contract so we have any questions on one or two three
115or four five or six mr norman do you have question your microphone is not working try the other button There you go. Okay. Thank you. I had a question about the fencing contract. Have you already? No, I don't think so. I'm not following your number. So when you get to. Okay. Okay. Any question on six or seven, eight or nine? Okay. Or 10? Okay. Moving to board policies. Do we have any questions on policy C220? Although, and I will say that for the board policies, we've discussed all these policies in a policy review meeting that we had before Thanksgiving. So we've, the majority of the board was actually there. So we've all discussed these policies once already. Okay. Any questions on C-230? On I-370? I-441? I-450? J-580? C-231. And then I know we have public
116speakers signed up for J-171, so I'll refer to Ms. Coatney since Ms. Oh, I'm sorry, never mind. That's next week. Sorry, sorry, thank you. Okay, and moving on to, I'm sorry, the questions. Are you on H? Yes, sorry. I'm so sorry. Okay, I just wanted to say a couple of things, if it's okay. First of all, I'd like to say that I value all my board members and the way we agree to disagree. We've talked about that many times this year and not making it personal. This board is really a joy to work with. And then I wanted to go ahead and comment on the fact that As a, several of the board members have expressed great concerns about the negative impact it would have on our students' education. But as a classroom teacher for
117almost 25 years, I've experienced the school day and what that looks like throughout the year, and I felt the pressures associated with that. There is no greater pressure. But I can tell you an hour a month will not have a negative impact, and there are far more frivolous things, such as fundraising assemblies that require far more missed instructional times in the release time program as it's currently written into policy. I got an email, several of you expressed this, but Rob Huffaker said it best. One of the buttons and see if that helps. Okay. Sorry. Such as the interruption of field trips, special programs and assembly, snow days, testing, field day, school pictures, BMI screening, vision screening, hearing screening, flu shots, as well as numerous other things that I don't even remember. Just this month, our
118football players, cheerleaders, and... Our football players, cheerleaders, and some band members have missed a significant part of the school day to travel to playoff games. Are you okay over there? Okay. It's interesting to me that in the six years I've never had anyone speak out against any of these or contact the board. And while teachers may complain about them within their schools, no one has ever contacted me as a board member. And I just ask the question, why is that? My other point is that I would like to say, and I believe that I have advocated and fought alongside educators in my district across Lawrence County and in the state of Tennessee for the past six years. I would never try to devalue a teacher's role and find it troubling that this argument has been
119framed this way. There have been many arguments used to shut this down, and I got emails in three different ways. The first way was, the scare tactics that were involved. The second wave involved the separation of church and state, but none was more painful for me than the art and the music teachers. And so I just wanted to say that I would never devalue that, but I do feel like that. If that energy that has been used in the related arts teachers, which I appreciate and have read every email, was directed at the state to actually get more teachers, classes, and time for related arts, that y'all could really mobilize and make a huge difference from what I've seen in my emails. Many have written in their emails that this should be done on weekends,
120but the facts are that many families work all week with homework consuming their evenings, and the weekends are an endless cycle of soccer, baseball, and football games. And the reality is... given the reliable study done in 2016, found that only 19.26% of Knox County residents identified as being actively involved in the church at all. And only 39% identified as having no religious affiliation. I know one other board member other than myself took the time to go and actually participate in the religious release time. I was very impressed as an educator and the lesson was well done. But what I really took away from that was the question that they asked the students and it's resonated in my mind and heart for the last two weeks. And that question that the teacher asked was, do our
121decisions affect others? And that is a question and a... A live question that I would want all students to consider. So anyway, that's my thoughts on that and hope you understand where I'm coming from. Thank you, Miss Bounds. Miss Owen, I believe you were next. Over the years, we have had people speak out against disruptions, but they have spoken about disruptions that are repetitive. A one-time disruption is something that We have generally come to be used to but I think we could look back in time and find that there was even a time when we took out disruptions from intercoms because it disrupted learning so much and we have spoken quite a lot about the disruption to instruction caused by test prep and other things that are repetitive and consistent. The state doesn't determine the
122time for related arts. That's determined by us. And this policy takes a lot more than a few minutes from their arts classes. This has taken a third of the instructional time from the arts classes in our pilot program. What's problematic is that we have not waited until the end of the pilot program to even find out how it has impacted students whether it has Impacted the school as a whole That we are shoving this through before we have completed a pilot and before we have any data is extremely concerning but Besides all of those concerns, I have several questions, and I think most of them may be to the law director. We've been asked quite a lot what is considered a core curriculum course. So is it possible for us to include a definition in
123our policy? Mr. Lohan. Thank you, Madam Chair, Ms. Owen. Certainly, I mean, this board has obviously a lot of control over its own policies, and I think I had mentioned, maybe it was in policy review meeting, that this board can go further than what the law allows, but cannot have less than what... than what the law allows because there's a specific state statute 49-2-130 that directly applies to this. But then if this board wants to put additional restrictions or clarifications, as I believe what you're asking about, certainly that can be done. Yes. Thank you. I also, just for the rest of the board, I also had some clarification from the State Board of Education. Since we did not currently have a definition and the, did I say Board of Education? The State Board of Education
124is where I got this. The State Department of Education was not giving me a very clear answer. But according to the State Board of Education, what the definition is really depends. They do not currently have a specific definition. They said we don't define core subjects from the State Board, but you could as an LEA. For elementary and middle school, you would likely want this to include the tested subjects in each grade, as well as any legal requirements like those around physical education and physical activity. In high school, we have the graduations requirements listed in Policy 2.103, which you could consider core subjects. general legal requirements like that all students must have computer science education at some point in grades K through 12. And in addition to this, the closest they could get to any specific
125list of core courses were from the No Child Left Behind. plan that the state implemented and that the definition that they used then was that the core academic subject areas are defined as English, reading or language arts, mathematics, science, and that included biology, chemistry, earth science, physical science, and physics. foreign language to include French, German, Latin, and Spanish, civics and government, economics, arts, visual arts and music, history and geography, and all courses that may be offered either as an elective or as a substitute for a core academic course. And that is from page 1 and 17 of the Tennessee No Child Left Behind plan. So I would like to suggest that we add a definition next week before we consider voting on something that is so vague. Looking at transportation, this is also for the
126law director. Is it possible that the sponsoring entity could use some form of public transportation? That's a good question, but I think... A lot of my answers on this law are going to be the same, which is it's going to be up to the third-party entity to make the proper arrangements for transportation, and it would not be up to the school system. I want to be sure that I publicly ask some of these questions so that we are all very aware of how many things are not up to us. Point two says that the sponsoring entity will maintain attendance records and make them available to the individual school. Do we know how those will be made available? I think that might look different at different schools. There would probably need to be a procedure on
127that. Obviously, it could be electronic. It could be in paper form. So it could be one of several ways. Do we know who would be responsible for tracking or accounting for those? Are you saying from the school side? Yes. Well, I mean, someone from the school, probably an administration or front office, I think that would be left up to the director of schools. But, you know, somebody would need to at least keep track of that. So someone in the front office would be having to account for all of that. How much additional school staff time do you think that could consume? I don't know the answer to that question. That would probably be for. for Mr. Thomas or somebody on his staff. And we don't have any data from our current pilot, right? Not at
128this time. I think Mr. Thomas was working on that. We could ask and get that information, I think. Thank you. If students with disabilities require a teacher or an assistant to accompany them to class, what provisions would be made to have the same available during release time? So I think you're asking about, so the law talks about students with disabilities. So obviously, again, the third-party entity would have to make arrangements for all types of students. If students have toileting accommodations, medical needs that require the presence of a school nurse, what provisions would be required for the release time? Would we? Would we check into that or would we just assume that it was provided? Again, I mean the third party entity would be responsible for that whether or not you know I would think the
129school might at least be aware of that because if there's a nurse on staff there at school then likely the third party entity may want to compensate that and that same nurse to go on the trip and what have you so I mean I I can't speak for all the logistics but but but obviously the third party entity would be responsible for that Are there any safety protocols that are required of the sponsoring entity? Not that I see in the Tennessee code. Is it possible that a third-party entity considering... opening a program with one of our schools might look at our schools that have high needs populations and choose not to offer their programs there because they could not be able to provide the accommodations necessary. Hypothetically, if a third party entity were to do
130that, then that entity would be running the risk of discriminatory action. If they did that, and let's assume hypothetically that the discriminatory action weren't looked into, would it have the risk of increasing our disparities in Knox County schools because we would have programs that were available to some and not to others? I don't know that I can answer that question because, again, this is not... The whole design of the law is for this not to be offered or sponsored by Knox County Schools. Are there any checks to ensure that a sponsoring entity would be appropriately insured for a liability? I mean, I think the school system could have some kind of procedure in place to ask about insurance. But again, the responsibility for the insurance is going to fall upon the third party entity. Other
131questions about that, but I don't see them right off. The policy and the law require that a student be required to make up material that has been missed due to the release time course. And we know that that has not been happening in the current pilot because the teacher is teaching the lesson at a different time, basically. If we were to follow the law as it is written and a student is to assume responsibility for the makeup work, how would they, let's say a first or second grader, how would they assume responsibility for makeup work in a performance class or an arts class? Would that be a parent responsibility? Would the parent have to have a private tutor to be able to teach them the content that they miss? I don't think I can answer
132that question and probably for one of the administrators to be able to answer that Do we have any tracking information or data on how course content was made up during the pilot? That is something that we're going to survey, part of the survey questions that our research department will be asking in the letter that I signed approving the pilot. There were several things specified there that we would look at at the conclusion of the pilot, which is this month. So that's one of the things we will ask in terms of the makeup and how that's worked. But we won't have that data before we have to make a decision, right? Not for next week, right? I think the last session is December 19th pilot. Will we also be able to have any data on how
133successful students have been in mastering the material in the classes they missed? I don't, and we talked about that this morning too when we met, but with it being, what, four or five sessions, I guess. I don't know how I don't really know how we would measure that unless we looked at grades that might be issued at the other teacher grade but but in terms of overall achievement I don't think we would we would have that information same token if a teacher is being evaluated based on the standards that they are required to teach what kind of liability is there for that teachers ability to teach a class in which her students are missing for a third of the time I don't think I sound like Mr. Dupre here I don't think we we have
134not that he's not very intelligent and has answers to a lot of things but that this law is so vague that this is not that those are great questions and it's been been specified that you know in terms of how we would do that so if the teacher You know, I would guess that the evaluation would be scheduled at a time, you know, where the teacher had a full class, obviously, or had the attendees there. But in terms of how the students would perform, you know, I guess we're just going to have to try to think through that if the board, you know, ultimately approves a policy that allows this. So as principals are having to... having to go and do extra work to determine whether it can fit into their schedule, they are also
135going to have to do extra work in making sure that their evaluations fit into a time when this is not pulling from any classes. And that could be multiple classes and multiple programs pulling. I think it could be in terms of all being fair to the teacher. Do you foresee having a policy that would ensure that principals do that so that they wouldn't do an unannounced observation on a day when a teacher might have two-thirds of her class missing? I think we would have to do that with this policy, if it's approved. Thank you. I have some liability questions for Mr. Dupler now. What if I mean we we know that the parent is signing a waiver and saying that we are not responsible in any way What if the student is released from class
136but never actually boards that bus? That's a good question So so the school is is going to be responsible for that student until that student goes into the and this is a Common theme I guess tonight goes into the custody and control of the third party entity Okay, so that gets down to the essence of a series of questions. What I guess I want to know is where's the demarcation point between the school and the sponsoring entity? Because we've talked before about who is taking attendance, who is checking to see that the students who have signed up are there. Depending on who's doing that, I think that could change the demarcation point for where that student is in our custody and where that student is in their custody. So let's say a student left campus
137rather than boarding the bus. So they've come, they've been checked off, they go, but they... slip off through the bushes and leave campus? Is that our responsibility or the entity's responsibility? What if that student is injured while boarding the bus or between the building and the bus? Where is the demarcation point where... They are ours and where they are theirs and what if there's a fight between those two places Whose responsibility is it to break up that fight? Who who has jurisdiction if there is a threat made while the student is on the bus? Is that a threat that we? Should be dealing with and is it a threat that would be reported to us at all? Would we even find out about it if they threaten themselves or someone else? Where is there any
138way for us to determine a solid? Point where they are theirs and where they are ours or is that for future courts to decide? I think it's going to be fact-specific. It's going to be a situation where you might have one school that the representative from the third-party entity may come to the lobby, for instance, of the school and then take custody at that point of the students. You might have another school where the school teacher, administrator, or employee... takes the students to the bus and then and then once the students board the bus then they're in control of or the third party entities in control so it's going it's going to just depend upon the facts so let's look at let's say that i am i'm a staff member in a school and i'm
139taking the students to the bus if that's taking time from what i am hired to do in knox county schools isn't that an expense to knox county schools And again, that's... I mean, my time is valuable. You know, I think one of the school officials would probably be better to answer that question. I mean, I would imagine, and just from working in and with school employees, that there's many different duties that they have. And they walk students to and from classes, particularly in elementary and things like that. Can't answer that question. I what I'm really wondering with that one is Assuming we would have multiple entities in multiple schools and especially large schools the amount of time that it could take just for the logistics of getting students where they need to be, I think
140there might be some point at which it becomes a cost to us that needs to be considered, especially, and I probably wouldn't have thought of that if the law didn't very specifically say that we can't have any cost. So I'm wondering where... Where would the line be there where might a court consider the line to be at what at what point it could become a cost? That's yeah, that's a good question. I mean the the law seems to indicate that there's some type of expense when it comes to cost ie Transportation that would be an expense and then and then the school system is not responsible for that But but as far as employees, that's that's not quite as clear. No I'm not sure who this next question would be for. Considering that we have
141hundreds of different languages spoken in Knox County schools, well, not hundreds, but about 100 languages spoken in Knox County schools, how many different languages will our disclaimer and our waiver be translated into? What is our expectation there? I think that would depend on the school, I guess, in terms of the various languages spoken. But I think we would have to, in order to communicate, have to do so in the language that the student's parents understand. So would it be up to that individual school to determine how many languages they would need? I think they would have to tell us that, and I think we would have to figure out a way to make it happen, which, again, you're asking a question about time. You know, if our folks are doing anything... other than what they're
142supposed to be doing at the time that we're paying them, then that's a cost, in my opinion. So it would be reasonable to assume that our interpreters would also have to be looking at those documents? I don't see how we could get there without that. Would there be translators available to parents if documents were not translated into their language? Again, there'd be a cost to that. I don't know if the requesting agency would need to foot that cost, in my opinion, if it's not supposed to be a cost to the school system. Whether they could or not, I don't know. And if ELL students, if English language learners are invited to participate in the program? Would we require that the sponsoring agency have interpreters for them so that they could understand the program, or will
143they be left out? Again, if the parent approves of this, I think, again, it would be up to the agency to provide whatever is needed for that student to be able to, that or they deny service. And I thought I heard Mr. Dupler say that that's discriminatory. So, again, I'd let Mr. Dupler comment on that. I think he has, so I think we're good there. What kind of information has been distributed to teachers and administrators regarding the release time pilot and or this draft policy that we are looking at right now? Has that been distributed to our staff for input? No, we have not sent that out. We had a conversation with our principals. Of course, it's public information. I'm not sure what principals maybe have looked at it. We had a conversation with our
144principals at Principal Advisory. Also had a Teacher Advisory Council meeting a couple weeks ago and talked with the teachers that are represented there about this, but it's not been disseminated by us other than through the agenda process. Has the collaborative conferencing team been given an opportunity to discuss potential issues regarding staff working conditions related to the policy? No, that's not been done with the PECA group. That's something we can obviously put on the agenda. I think there's a meeting scheduled for this month that we can have to talk to Dr. Russell about that, but we could put it on the meeting for discussion at our PECA meeting. And just for those folks who think I'm asking a whole lot of questions, that's a quarter of the questions that I have that are unanswered at this
145time. That's a lot of unanswered questions. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Kelly. Mr. Kelly. Yeah, there we go. Okay. I just want to let you all know that I've been. told by several different people and I've been getting a bunch of correspondences to share my opinion, but I don't necessarily think it's fair as me, one of... close to 60,000 students to sit up here and ramble on about my perspective. So to kind of share the student voice rather than a student voice, I'm in the process of finishing and distributing a survey to at least all of our Knox County high schools and even trying into going into our middle schools. And I'll have that raw data. So at your leisure, you can read through as many or as little responses as you'd like. And I
146can have that even broken down by what area of Knoxville they came from, what school they represented. And I'll have that to you before. you vote on this next week and in a more positive note the student advisory council meeting happened yesterday and we have a bunch of exciting things Coming up in January and I know that this doesn't necessarily fit with this but there's no board forum So I didn't want to let the cat out of the bag, but just know there's other cool stuff coming So just yeah, we do have word form at the end of our meeting so you can share more than perfect Thank you, but if you want to see the survey before I send it out or if you have any questions about or whatever You can just let
147me know and like I said, I'll have all the different responses to you before you vote Yes, it'll be about the collective opinion, and it'll be, like I said, unbiased, and they can submit their voice on the school time release program. Thank you. Ms. Babb. I have one quick question, but beforehand, just because I know there are a lot of people here about this. We have as a board. I think I can speak for all of us we've gotten lots of emails and One person emailed me and I'm not gonna say on which side saying they were speaking for the majority of the people And I think what I need to say is we have gotten Varying opinions on this and I think as a board we will reflect those varying opinions So I just
148want everybody to know out there There is a lot of different thought about this. Not anybody, one person out there is the majority of thought, and I just kind of want to let that be known. I do have one question for Mr. Dupler, and I think we talked about this at policy review, and I cannot remember what the answer was. I think we talked about doing background checks for the group that did it, and was it going to go on procedures? Because I know I don't see it in the policy, and I just want to make sure that... We obviously do want to have background checks on whoever is conducting this if this is passed Mr. DuPleur. Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Ms. Babb. I don't know that we did discuss it at
149policy review, but I know you and I did talk about it at one point. Yes. And what we talked about was that that is probably something that if the policy is passed, it would be a good thing to have in procedure. Just, again, It's up to the third party entity to do it. I mean, to have those background checks done, but it might be a good idea for the district to at least ask and say, you know, hey, have you done that and can you provide us something showing that you've done it? Similar to what's done with contractors that come into schools. Yeah, I mean, I definitely think as far as... Our liability and stuff. I mean, I know with community schools, anybody that interacts with our kids has to have one. And I apologize
150for my voice. So whether it's in procedures or the policy, I would like something about requiring background checks to be provided to us. Thank you. If I may, my memory of that conversation during policy review was that we would not maintain the background checks because we are not the ones who are. Who are conducting the program it would be the third party entities it would be on them to maintain those background checks Since Knox County schools would not be endorsing the program Yes, yes, I agree I mean it's it would be up to the third party entity to to obtain those background checks the entity would have to You know maintain those records I think the only thing the district would be considering would be some type of an assurance from the entity that that's
151been done. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Norman. Thank you, Madam Chair. Is it working? Okay. I went to one of the sessions, and it was very impressive. And I'm an old Sunday school teacher, and so, you know, to see the... excitement and all the things that they did, singing, dancing. You know, it's amazing. Teaching experience, the stuff that they did, you know, how they did it. It was just, you know, it was fantastic. You know, there's no issue there. And, you know, I would hope that there would be lots and lots of kids that have that opportunity. Unfortunately, that's not so. But the problem that I can't get over, and I think if you could address, and there's a hundred hypotheticals about this, which... Ms. Owens mentioned quite a few. And if there was even some
152way to address all of those, and there might be. I mean, there might be if you get given enough time and enough work and so on and so forth. Maybe you could do that. But even if you could, the thing that I can never get over is the kid that's left behind. What about that kid? What about how they feel? What about things that could affect them by not being there and when the other kids come back and all this stuff? And I just can't get over that. As good as this thing is, I just go, you know, there's a simple solution to this. Just do it after school. And so you would get the exposure, you would have the opportunity, and I know it's not simple, simple. I know that there's still problems about
153picking up kids and all that stuff, but I just can't get over that other part. So I applaud the people that do this. I applaud the Elgin Foundation and all the stuff that they're doing. I think it's super good, tip-top, but my butt is my butt. I think Ms. Christie's light was on next. Yeah, I just have a question, I guess, for Mr. Thomas or Dr. Roswick. Did you say that you took this to the principal advisory committee and the teacher advisory committee? I'm just curious about what their thoughts were. Yes, and the thoughts around the conversation, I guess, with the principals was around the instructional time in terms of... the lost instructional time. And I know it was pointed out, been pointed out, that we let students out for a lot of things. I
154guess I'm in favor of not even doing a lot of those things. But then we'll get run out of town. But from the standpoint of losing that instructional time, and Ms. Owen talked about this, the core curriculum, in my mind, the core curriculum is what we offer. If it's not the core curricular, why are we offering it? Why are we requiring kids to go to PE, go to music? And as I said in our policy review meeting, I've already gotten an earful from my wife, who is a former retired music teacher. She would get upset when the principals took kids out of her class. So she valued what they did. It was a performance class. If you weren't there, then you can't make that instruction up. when there's a group of students. That was expressed.
155I think that again the work the logistics of it and again a lot of Miss Owens Hypotheticals, I think points out that the logistical issues that are involved with this and sure we had one small school that did this and maybe the logistical problem wasn't wasn't that big but when you start getting into and the larger schools in multiple releases then you know it's going to be a logistical issue so that was a concern expressed by the principals as well so you know again we talked about this we talk about chronic absenteeism You know, and I know this is excused, but when we say it's important to be in school, yet we're going to let you out of school, you know, what kind of message does that send, you know, as well? So those were
156some of the issues. And some of the teachers expressed similar kinds of issues because the Teacher Advisory Council does include teachers who would teach those classes that we're going to allow students to miss. So there were concerns expressed by, you know, by the teachers there, too. I just think from the instructional standpoint, I mean, this district in Knox County Schools is a great district. I've said that. I'll continue to say that until I'm no longer here. But with a proficiency rate in language arts of 40% and a math proficiency rate as a district is 37.7%, you know, I'm going to continue to. to make sure, as much as I can do, that we protect the instructional time and our kids are in school, in class, and doing what they're supposed to be doing. We've had
157programs that, as Mr. Norman mentioned, before and after school that have been successful. We've got seven and a half hours of whatever the length of the day is with our students, and I think it's every bit important that we're providing them with the instruction. And I said this at our meeting, too. I'm a Christian. I'm a believer. So when I say what I say, it's not because I don't have a belief system, but also It's important to me that we do things that we It's from an instructional standpoint that help our students to grow to learn to be successful And that they're in school and in class at the time they're supposed to be there So that's I interjected a little personal note there as well, but from the principals and our teachers, so thank
158you Thank you. Just on a side note before I ask Mr. Dupler if I could a question, I would like to say kind of mirroring what Ms. Bounds had said, it's okay to agree to disagree. The two of us have over 50 years of experience that we have given to Knox County Schools. We have dedicated the majority of our life to the school system. And in fact, the critique in the beginning was that... Because educators were on the board that it was it was you know it was not a good balance and everything we did was perceived to be for the teachers for the teachers. So I will say when when when you do receive emails that suddenly say that a board member does not value you or you never thought there'd be a day
159where you had to fight your own board. for time, this in particular. I really do hope that in the future that you will consider... The heart of the educators that are sitting on this board whether you agree or you disagree That that would that would be just very I think a very fair thing To do having said that Mr. Dupler if this board does not pass this policy Will that in fact? Stop a program That meets what state and federal law says from coming to a school and doing this anyway Thank You madam chair Thank You miss Hill So so miss Hill I think you asked a question that we discussed at policy review and so the answer is It would not A release time program would not exist as it has during this pilot.
160In other words, there would not be the benefits of having a policy which... The main benefit that we discussed was that the student would be counted as present during that course class period, whereas if a third party entity were to go to the extra time and expense, which it would be if this policy is not implemented, or some policy is not implemented, there would be extra time and expense on that third party to try to organize a uh... completely outside program basically and anytime uh... apparent would authorize a student to be out of class then the student would be counted absent for that for that time period whatever it was whether it's an hour two hours so in the end and i hear you say that this in fact could still Primarily the only difference
161would be instead of a student being counted present in their class They would be counting absent even though they would still be considered present for the entire day Is that a fair statement? Yes, yes, I think that is a fair statement because if a student, I mean currently Knox County has policies and procedures to count a student present or absent for the day. So as long as those requirements were met, then the student could be present for the day but not for certain classes. I think the other consequence would be for a program that is not done under a policy would be that there could be more disruption on instructional time because the school would have no say in where that would fall during the day. And I am surmising you're saying that because it
162is a parent's right. to be able to give permission for their child to leave school at any time. Within reason. I mean, the law does talk about students should be in school somewhere, somehow. And the board has policies talking about attendance and discouraging taking students out of class. But due to... due to the way the state law is is is falling down on this or or shaking down uh... this would likely be again as long as it's reasonable probably in hours or something like that then then a third party could still work this with a lot more effort without the policy so uh... i'd do uh... I really did hear a couple of the issues you brought up, Jennifer, especially regarding liability and probably more than anything, it was the liability issues and even perhaps
163some parameters around transportation. These are things I am thinking. Mr. Dupler could be requirements included in a policy that would allow us then to to take advantage of trying to put some parameters around it while we still have the chance to control it as opposed to not doing that. Yes, Ms. Hill. I mean, you can, this board can place extra controls or parameters in the policy or delegate that to the director of schools to put into a procedure that would go along with the policy. All right. And so. regardless of what any of us might think personally about this, and this board is probably as divided as the emails we've gotten, as Ms. Babb said. I mean, it has just been all over the place. I do tend to circle back around to if this
164is, in fact, something that has been... deemed legal by our state and federal government and we are given an option to at least try to Put some parameters around it given the fact that in the end If a group is determined to do this They will do it anyway. I just really concerned that if we aren't prudent and don't be proactive in this, that it really will get away from us. Thank you, Ms. Hill. Ms. Owen? Yes. Mr. Dupler, are there parameters already in the law that determine, are there, can you now? The black button is on. It's on. Are there parameters that dictate how many days a principal can approve excused absences? I'm thinking it's 10. If a principal could excuse a student for 10 days for their parents' choice of a religious activity,
165and then we add this additional policy, that would be... 20 times they could miss a class. Can I just ask a clarifying question that may help? I think according to statute, since this is part of state statute, regardless of what our policy is, statute is that if a child is attending release time, it's not counted against them. Yes, but I'm talking about I'm talking about what Miss Hill brought up which is that if we do not use this policy They would still be able to do the same thing, but it would be an excused absence That's what is currently policy Not that policy. Well, I think based on, I mean, I would have the question, I think based on state law, whether we have a policy or we don't have a policy, a student has
166the right to attend a release time. Therefore, they would not be counted absent. No. In current policy, right? We don't have policy. We only have statute. Well, if we don't adopt this policy, then none of that law applies. It still applies. This is state law. No, it wouldn't apply because that law is a permissive law to allow the policy. Mr. DuBois. I would have to do a little bit more research because there is a board policy that talks about religious ceremonies and things like that. And I believe that's what you're referring to. So there could be excused absences for those types of things. If the board doesn't adopt a policy under this statute, which is specifically 492130, then... then the course time would not be an excused absence. But still, you're not talking about an
167absence for a day, which is where we're kind of, an absence for a day gets into truancy issues, whereas an absence for one class doesn't trigger that same thing. I'm looking at the state board policy and the attendance policy for the state board under excused absences says that a school principal may excuse a student from school attendance to participate in a non-school sponsored extracurricular activity if the following conditions are met. And basically it says they have documentation that the parent or guardian with legal custody has submitted a request that the principal or principal's designee has approved it. And it says the principal may limit the number and duration of non school sponsored extracurricular activities for which excused absences may be granted to a student during the year it further says that the principal shall excuse
168no more than ten absences each school year for students participating in non school sponsored extracurricular activities yes so I think what you're asking is I mean, that applies no matter what, which is true. And if this policy is not adopted, then a principal could excuse some of the absences, but perhaps not all of them. Thank you. I believe that policy refers to days, to days, excused days, not more than 10 excused classes. It says absences. It doesn't say days or classes. In the end, though, the cumulative number that's looked at for purposes of truancy or anything else is a day. It's absence, not a class. That's just... And also, Jennifer, you're talking about policy. We need to be focusing on what the law says. That's the bottom line of it. But it does not supersede
169our law. No, it doesn't, because this is a different one that we're talking about. It says very clearly that the principal may limit the number and duration of non-school-sponsored extracurricular activities for which excused absences may be granted to a student during the school year. the principal shall excuse no more than 10 absences each school year for students participating in non-school-sponsored extracurricular activities. Okay. If I may, I think that we need to look back to the fact that, as Ms. Hill stated, this is allowed under state law. In 2015, my understanding is that our legislature unanimously approved this statute. We have 70 students out of roughly 300 who... participated in the pilot so that tells me that we have parents who want to utilize their right for their child to receive this education during the school
170day and it is it is the responsibility of the parents to be sure that the child is educated whether they choose to home school their child public education or private education that is a parent's right to determine that for their child There's no doubt that there are lots of hypotheticals. I think a lot of that is answered by the fact that the third party is responsible for that. And this is not new. This has been around since 1914. So I'm sure a lot of these issues have been worked through with entities who are utilizing this policy. Parents have the... right to determine what their children, what education their children receive. And to me, this, our state statute allows for this type of release time. And if we have parents who are basically asking for it
171because they signed up for the pilot, and if they continue to sign up for this type of program with a third-party entity that's the parents prerogative this is not in any way endorsed by Knox County Schools and so so it's up to the parents it's up to the parents to make sure that they know where their child is going during the school day if they sign a piece of paper and they don't know That's they've they've approved it. It's the parents we were we're in a very we're in a in a time right now when parental rights are really being challenged. And we need to remember that it's the parent's responsibility to educate the child, however they choose to do that. Yes, we say that there are children, and they are in a sense, but
172only because the parents have given us authority over their child. They're not our children. They're their parents' children. So I think that, I think Ms. Hill's right. This is in state statute. parents have this right. I think if there are issues with it, then we need to be talking with our legislature because they've approved this unanimously four years ago. And I think there's almost a half a million kids across the country who are utilizing this type program right now. So anyway, that is my viewpoint on it. Ms. Owen, we have one more comment. Yes. If we adopt this policy, I would like to know where the prerogative is for the students who remain in the classroom and whose parents did not have a choice. Okay, we're going to move on to grants. Do we have
173any questions on A? Any questions on B or C? D or E? Okay, now we're moving into contracts. A? Any questions on A? Any questions on B? See mr. Norman I think you had a question Thank You madam chair is it working yes Okay, who do I direct it to fencing Doug thank you What is the status of the topic of fencing right now for the system in terms of How much What are we trying to do are we are we in the because of security issues in the mode of fencing in our campuses or Because I'm getting some information about That that that's what it looks like in places and just I'm concerned about that Thank You madam chair, mr. Norman the Fencing of the campuses has been a priority for security upgrades that
174we've been dealing with for about, I'd say, the last three or four years. We've concentrated mainly on elementary schools at this point, and I think we have accomplished what we need to do at elementary schools. We've tried to be somewhat... judicious in how we did this and trying very hard not to make them look like some type of institution other than a learning institution. And I think we've been successful in doing that, but then you have to kind of balance the security and access to our campuses. from all sides. And so that's the reason that we have been doing this. And I will say that this particular contract is a term contract that we've had in place for several years now. We've run through all of the Five years that the previous contract had so
175we have rebid it and now we're putting in place another term contract So it's not just for security. It's also for for maintenance and upkeep and repairs and so on and so forth Okay, and I'm absolutely for security. There's some other issues that sort of work into the question about fencing, as you mentioned, in terms of access to this. I'm just concerned about schools not being isolated, that we have this notion of a community school. that in some places schools are used in the evenings, maybe sometimes by seniors, that there are facilities that are owned by us. And for us to fence them in makes them inaccessible to other people. And I know you have to balance that with the risk factors and security issues. I'm just, you know, this is a philosophical question. There's
176no answer to it. And I just want to pose it that especially when we're talking about things about building new schools and we're talking about childhood obesity, walkability, bicycling, blah, blah, blah, you know, making all these other aspects of. child's well-being in taking those into consideration I know you deal with these I'm just I'm just positing stuff okay thank you thank you okay moving on to regular agenda items anything on a B C D and we've already discussed II and then we added the West Valley Okay, so we did that already. Okay, never mind. Okay, so no questions on these items? Okay. Ms. Hill? Just very quickly on item B. Mr. Dillingham, does this now secure all the property that's needed to move forward with Adrian Burnett? Or is this not a part of Adrian
177Burnett? Ms. Hill, yes, this is a part of the Adrian Burnett. Project it's not exactly the property that we wanted that this became available. It's directly adjacent to Adrian Burnett and it will help facilitate Going forward with this project It's just to the that would be the west of the property in this contiguous with the property You have a question? Okay. Okay. I think that that's the end of our agenda. Board members, we're going to push on through with public forum. If you need to take a break during public forum, please just excuse yourself for a moment and do that. So since we're running a little long, but we want to go ahead and get started. Ms. Coatney will be conducting public forum since Ms. Babb has no voice. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yes.
178I was just going to ask, we have someone that, because of age and the distance she's traveled, I would respectfully ask, and we also have to vote as a board, if she can speak since she's out of district. But I would ask that she be allowed to speak and that she be allowed to go first because of the distance she has to travel back tonight and her age. Okay. So that would be, do I have a second on that? Okay. We have a motion and a second by Ms. Browns and Ms. Hill. Any comment? Okay. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. And just a reminder, ladies and gentlemen, when you come to the podium, please state your name and county of residence for the record, and you will be given up to
179five minutes. And we have 15 speakers signed up, so if you don't need your whole five minutes, please feel free to be concise. Our first speaker will be Faye Heatherly. Well, there are some advantages to being older, I can see, yes. Superintendent Thomas, Madam Chair, and school board members, I appreciate you allowing me to come and speak to your board tonight. I have been to this board several times in past years when I served as East District Director for TSBA, and I was privileged to bring this board many, many times an award for being a board of distinction. My name is Faye Heatherly. I live in Campbell County. I'm on the school board there. have been for this is my 16th year and I'm also the current immediate past president of TSBA and I'm not
180here representing TSBA today I'm here to give you my support and to share with you the success that we have had in Campbell County with the Christian Learning Center and release Bible education. We call that in our high schools, in our elementaries, it's called Bible education, released Bible education. But it has been a very, very successful program for us. We've had it in place for... about four years now. And we started out with a few pilot schools, but now it is in every school, elementary school in Campbell County. And the last, just recently, we put it into our middle schools as well. And we also have just started in the high school, the Release Time Bible Education. And to my knowledge, it's the first one in Tennessee. And we have worked diligently with the legislature.
181in Nashville in order to get credit for high school credit for the high school classes. It has been in all of our elementary schools. We have eight, and it has been so well received by the parents and by the community, and it is a program that has benefited our children beyond words. just sitting in a lobby waiting for a video to be taped with one of the students. And I asked him, what is your favorite thing about... the release time. He said, Ms. Fay, I feel so loved while I'm there, and I feel so safe, and I feel it's such a good opportunity to learn about the Bible and about Bible ways. And this is really, it's really all about benefits to the children. That's our goal, and that's our... primary responsibility and interest in
182and I do appreciate this board in Knox County and the tremendous job that you do from day to day and the fact that you love education that is a passion of mine and teachers and students as well as well as administration but We've worked with our legislators until we feel like we've worked out a lot of the things that you all have talked about tonight. And so has a lot of the things that you brought up. We have worked through those things in Campbell County. And it runs very, very smoothly. And it is legal as long as we follow the guidelines. And when we follow the parental... permission and it's off campus and it is not funded, not accepting funds through the state or federal government. It is legal. And as one of the board
183members, it is state laws. And our TSBA attorney, Ben Torres, worked directly with the state. Education Department when some of these bills were being formed and and they have been involved in it and I would just say And I've got 46, 45 seconds left. I would just say it has been successful. It has been beneficial. And I pray that you all would make the right decision. And that decision is yours and yours alone. But I just want to share with you the success that it has been with the students and with their children. And thank you again for allowing me to speak tonight. God bless you. The next speaker is Al Elliott. Please state your name and county of residence. I'm Al Elliott. I live in Knox County, and I have a child in Knox
184County Schools. I sit on the board of Freedom From Religion Foundation. I'm the president of Atheist Society of Knoxville, and I am the co-founder, president, and a minister for the Satanic Ministry. I am part of the parade of horribles that so many have called a hoax or a prank, including at least one school board member who thought it appropriate to share a post from their campaign page urging people to support Sturkey's religious program while denouncing us as fake. I assure you, we are not fake. We are indeed a non-profit religious organization established in Tennessee, and we will follow through. I'm not here to represent or speak on behalf of any of these organizations. The Satanic ministry is not concerned whether this policy goes through or not. There is literally no way for us to lose
185here, as there are only four possible outcomes. The first is that you do not pass this policy, and our schools are not infiltrated by religion. This is the best outcome for everyone if this policy is passed and Elgin and search you get to have their problem program We will introduce our own program and from there one our school Our program gets approved and our kids get to leave school to receive moral instruction To the principals of the schools decide to shut down all religious release time programs Or three, just one principal decides to turn us down and continue Elgin and Sturgey or any other church's program, and we will sue the Knox County School District for religious discrimination, which all of you sitting up there are well aware that we would win. With or without
186our program, our children will be singled out and ostracized by the children who attend Bible release time. These types of programs are designed to recruit other kids. They separate children of a chosen belief system and reward them with time away from school, candy, toys, and anything else that could entice other kids to go home and beg their parents to let them attend. This will continue on until only religious minorities are left in the class. These programs teach children that they are God's chosen ones and therefore better than these other kids, which will ultimately lead to bullying. We know this. It's already happened in Tennessee and resulted in a lawsuit costing Union County $50,000. I wouldn't count on getting off as easily. My personal position is if these programs are going to lead to children being
187ostracized and bullied, then they might as well have a program so that they too get the privilege of leaving school to play games, get candy, and have fun. However, while our children will get their own program, there are several others who will not get this. And I can assure you, when I hear of any of these children being bullied by the students in Bible release time programs for their religious differences, I will... personally make sure that those families have lawyers and that they too sued Knox County School District. To drive home how Bible release time will teach children to bully ours, I'd like to read a sample from a lesson that they submitted to Sturkey Elementary School. Quote, the Bible tells us we have an enemy who hates us and wants to destroy us. Who
188is that? Satan. He will tempt us to cheat, lie, steal, fight, and disobey. The Bible tells us in Ephesians 6 to put on the armor of God and take the helmet of salvation and the sword and the spirit, which is the word of God. When we memorize Bible verses and hide them in our hearts, then we have a weapon to fight against Satan. What if you were a soldier and went into battle? You put on your helmet, your vest, and your boots, and you run out the door and you forget your gun. What would you be spending your time doing? Running and hiding because you couldn't fight back? The Bible is your weapon against Satan. First, I'd like to say that our children are not liars and cheaters who steal, fight, and disobey. Second, let's
189take a few key words out of there. Enemy, hate, destroy, sword, fight, weapon, battle, and gun. This program is teaching children that they are in a religious war. With this type of violent imagery used, the only possible long-term outcome of allowing this program in our schools is the bullying of children who do not believe in the same God and do not attend this program. Any school board member who votes to pass this policy will be culpable for the bullying. We've already seen one family affected by religious discrimination because of this. How many more will you allow? Schools should be a safe place for all kids. Allowing religious release time is counterproductive towards creating the environment that these children need. With that, I bless you all. Hail Satan. The next speaker is Angel Jones. Angel Jones.
190I am Angel Jones. I live in Knox County, Tennessee. I am speaking on behalf of my children and myself. I am a widow of a veteran and I'm also a veteran myself. I was a constant volunteer at Sturkey, and since finding out about the Bible release time, I have been vocal with my opposition. The Bible release time creates an unnecessary pressure on children who don't attend to attend. It interrupts the school day, there are safety concerns, there are consequences for parents who oppose Bible release time, and there could be consequences for students who don't attend. I grew up in Johnson County, Tennessee. I was raised Christian, and that Jesus was God's son. My elementary school had a Bible release time program, and I went to it regularly. The adults would say if anyone had a
191question, they could stay after and ask. One time I did, and I asked them, where did God come from? They kept telling me about Mary, Joseph, and Jesus, and I got frustrated and stormed out because they didn't answer my question. So the next month I chose not to go, and I was the only person in my class who stayed. The next month I went again because I didn't want to be left out. and so I can empathize with the children who don't attend. And one day when picking my kids up from school, my oldest was upset, and I asked them what was wrong. And they told me they felt like the only kid in second grade that didn't believe in God. And she had asked her friends about their beliefs too. She said that they
192went on to tell me that that made her feel sad and lonely, and she felt sad watching her friends leave. From both of those experiences, I can say that the Bible release time puts an unneeded pressure on children to attend by making them feel left out. After I received the permission slip, I messaged my oldest teacher and asked, what would the kids who don't attend do? The response was that no new instruction would be given, and teachers would review skills and objectives. For my second grader, that means losing an hour of language arts time because they aren't tested on it. However, they will be tested on it next year, and those... And those accumulative hours add up. Even though other classes aren't tested, they still provide a vital role to child development, and they should
193not be missed. I have a concern for the safety of the children. Like, why was the Bible release time people eating lunch on the Thanksgiving family day? I was incredibly uncomfortable when eating lunch with my oldest. And to my knowledge, they do not have children that attend Sturkey. They are not Knox County faculty. And they were sitting unaccompanied with access to all the children in the cafeteria. And I did not consent to these adults having access to my child. I am not the only parent who has these concerns. However, I have heard a few worry about negative consequences for voicing opposition to the program. And from experience, I can say that those worries are valid. I was a consistent volunteer at Sturkey over the past three years. Last year, my kids' class earned a pizza
194party, and the teacher sent out a message to the parents asking if someone could pick up the pizza. I didn't feel well and figured another parent could do that, so I took a nap. When I got up, I sent a message asking if the pizzas were there, and they hadn't, so we had to change the... The pickup time to later. So my youngest and I went and picked up the pizza and took it to the school. And the teaching assistant said, my kid called it. And I asked him, called what? And the teaching assistant said, my kid told them to ask me to do it because I would do it. And shortly after, my kid told me she knew I would always be there. I have the ability to volunteer at the school almost whenever
195it's needed. Mostly because I am a widow. I was volunteering this last year at least twice a week, and because of my vocal opposition of the Bible release time and my support of the Satanic Children's Ministry, I was sent a message by my youngest teacher that the volunteer schedule was changed due to negative social media activity involving Sturkey, and they would only reach out to me on special occasions. Recently, I got a slip asking for volunteers or donations for the holiday party. I want to volunteer, but I feel anxiety and unwelcomed in the school. Since a parent has gone through this treatment, who is to say that a student will not have negative consequences as well? The school should always feel safe and inclusive. Bible release time happening does not foster that atmosphere. I implore
196you to vote down allowing the Bible release time program. Thank you for your time. The next speaker is Jennifer Sneed. Jennifer Sneed. Hi, I think you had to vote because I'm out of residence. Yes, Ms. Sneed lives in Maryville, is that correct? Okay. Do we have a motion? Second. Okay, we have a motion and a second by Ms. Hill and Ms. Pab. Any discussion? All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you, Ms. Sneed. Thank you so much for allowing me to speak. I'm Jenny Sneed. I'm the art teacher at Sturkey Elementary. I've been a teacher in Knox County Schools for eight years at a total of four schools, and I've been at Sturkey, this will be my fifth school year. I absolutely love my school, and I love Knox County Schools. Even though
197I do live in Maryville, I was forced to move there from extenuating circumstances. I choose to work in Knox County because... It's a great place to be, and I love the diversity of our students. So far, the students I've had have been a variety of religions, everything from atheists, agnostic, Jehovah's Witness, Unitarian Universalist, Buddhist, Wiccan, Hindu, Catholic, Muslim, pagan, Christian, Satanist, and I'm sure there's others I haven't listed. This diversity really strengthens our student body as well as our staff because we're... able to experience a variety of cultures and see that it's not as homogenous as it always seems in the Bible about where we are. I'm actually missing teaching a lesson at my middle school. I'm a middle school youth group advisor, and I'm missing a church service this evening to attend and speak
198to you all. And I'm doing that because of the incredible importance of this issue. You've received multiple emails from me about this issue. And I'm super glad to be here because I'm able to answer a lot of the questions that you guys had. I'm hopeful, even though I oppose a policy being passed on the Bible release, I'm hopeful that we will learn from this and strengthen our diversity as a... I'm hopeful because the KCS strategic plan has been developed. You guys wrote the language and it promises to maintain and reinforce the KCS commitment to arts education. The Every Student Succeeds Act also has language that commits to developing the whole child. That, along with a very strong fine arts supervisor and fine arts department, has made us a really great program to work in and
199we have a budget that could be better but you know it's good for what it is and um you know we have plans to be the best in the nation we already feel like we're the best art department in the state but we really do legitimately plan on with a timetable being the best art department in the state with all that said This program has put a definite dent in my ability to teach my curriculum, to stay on pace with my lessons. I'm concerned for the safety of my students. I'm concerned for the potential of bullying, not only of students and parents, but also staff and teachers that have a perceived religious difference. And the massive time commitment that is made as far as creating schedules, printing off materials, keeping attendance, all of these things.
200So I have sent you multiple emails with my feedback on the pilot that has gone so far. But let me go over that for people that haven't been privy to that information. So far, the students that I have had have missed. with my curriculum painting exploration and introduction for the year, setting art goals for the year. They've missed critique lessons. They've missed fiber art exploration, printmaking introduction, how to interpret art, art show preparation, and field trip preparation. That's just in my class. Two weeks ago, we had our last Bible release program, and I had only four students present out of 16. That was devastating to my class, and I had to... Basically stop what we're doing. I can't teach a lesson with four children and still be able to carry on with my curriculum. My
201second grade teachers, there was a teacher that misses 11 students out of 19. And I've heard some members of the board say that. This is only once a month. It's not a big deal. That is a very big deal. If it's extended to a year-round program, then that would be approximately 10 lessons of English language instruction or social studies or art or music or whatever program that the principal decides is not as important as others. So are we going to have a have not? a have and have not situation where teachers are, at some schools, able to teach and are valued, or are we going to have a situation that is what we're in right now, it's Turkey, where there's teachers that feel undervalued, and I know there's conflict about that language, but it's the
202truth is what we feel, and it's what's happening with our students when they're not giving the curriculum as everyone else. I think that's my time. Thank you for your consideration. Next speaker is Tim Rogers. Tim Rogers, a Knox County resident. Thank you, Superintendent Thomas, Madam Chair, and school board members. It appears to me as if this has become a controversial issue. But I would hope to offer the opportunity to completely flip that narrative and say this does not have to be controversial. This can be a matter we can celebrate as a community. And I say that with confidence because while this is the first time this board may have had this conversation, this is the 24th time that I've been a part of this conversation. With 23 other school districts, we've had similar conversations with
203boards. And as of now, all 23 unanimously voted to support release time education for religious instruction. It's been, without exception, my experience so far that once public school boards become aware of the legalities behind this, they are excited to publicly communicate to the parents in the community that they care about the moral health of the children in their communities, and they want to accommodate the religious needs of parents' rights. And I can say that I know that this doesn't have to be controversial because I've seen it so overwhelmingly supported in so many other places. I also know it doesn't have to be controversial because I have seen release time. Knox County has an extensive history accommodating extracurricular activities during the instructional day. Just in the last week. My daughter missed two hours of potential instructional
204time last week to attend an in-school basketball game, and then she missed an entire full day of school with her vocal ensemble choir to go to a concert at the Tennessee Theater. I didn't complain. I like it that our kids have those opportunities. I do notice in those two opportunities nobody raised any of the similar concerns that I have heard tonight about lost instructional time. And nobody seemed to express any concern about the kids who chose not to attend the basketball game or chose... or about the kids who were left behind in the field trip. We have found a way to develop a mutual respect in the educational community to realize that if you're going to offer opportunities for kids, there will be occasional participants and non-participants. And we find a way to work within
205that. I, too, have been a teacher. I know what it's like to be left with a handful of kids because all of the rest of the kids have gone to some other opportunity. And you know what I did with those kids when I had them? I gave them the best I had to teach them while I had them in the room that day. And I would trust that educators would do the same thing in this opportunity as well. So I know it doesn't have to be controversial for those reasons, but also because we have experience of working with this board on a program of a regular release time type of program. Five years ago, we approached this board and we offered the idea about written parental request. We would transport kids off school property to
206receive much needed physical attention, and that in the form of dental care. Five years ago, the board approved it overwhelmingly, and every subsequent board has approved it. And not only was it approved, nobody raised any of the same objections that we've heard as what we've heard tonight, and it was even celebrated. I hold here a press release released by Knox County Schools and the Great Schools Partnership celebrating the launch of that dental program where kids were released by written parental request off school property to receive them. And they're missing much more instructional time for that one. As a hopeful moment of levity in a tense moment, I want you to know that I think this is one of the more amazing photos ever. On the day we launched that dental program at Green Magnet Elementary,
207there's a photo, and this is still circulating in social media, of then-Mayor Tim Burchett with his arm around Superintendent Dr. McIntyre smiling together because they agreed that this is a wonderful opportunity to offer to kids. If you don't believe in biblical miracles, that's one. For those of you who know the climate of those days. days. So I know that we can work together. Logistically, it's very similar. We could celebrate that one because we know that kids are not just academic beings. They have academic needs, they have emotional needs, they have social needs, and they even have spiritual needs. And on the subject of spiritual needs, that last one is one that plenty of academic research recognizes is important for kids, but schools are constitutionally barred from offering any direct support for that. So while we
208know it's important, that's not an issue you can address, which is why release time is so important. So I would argue with you that to offer release time to parents, and this is entirely built on the rights of parents, and it's, I think, the most comfortable place for you to put this in their hands to decide who would be released, who they would be released to, and those decisions belong to parents. And I say if you do that, you actually represent. the greatest of our American traditions. And that's not my words. That's the Supreme Court of our land. The Supreme Court and Zorach B. Clausen in debating this issue actually said this, when the state cooperates with religious authorities by adjusting the schedule of public events to sectarian needs and hear this part, it follows
209the best of our traditions. That's the words of the Supreme Court. I urge you to follow the best of our traditions and pass this because it celebrates our American traditions and it is an acknowledgement that you care about the moral health of the children of the parents who would want to participate in this program. I urge you to adopt it for those reasons. Thank you. I'm Elliot Specht. I live in Knox County. I appreciate your endurance, so I'll be brief. I'm here to ask you to end the release time religious instruction in Knox County schools. It's an American tenet that we give religious organizations equal rights, but not special rights. Other extracurricular organizations, from soccer teams to the Girl Scouts, need to schedule their activities outside of school hours. Religious organizations should do the same.
210Parents who just families who decide that their kids could benefit from religious and instructional find it widely available Sunday mornings, Wednesday evenings, maybe even on Friday or Saturday. Some some families are finding that their kids are too busy with soccer practice to go to church. They're signaling their priorities to you. I hope you'll pay attention. Thank you for your attention. Next speaker is Angela Achenbach. Thank you so much for allowing me to speak to you today on behalf of Bible Release Time. I'm Angela Achenbach, and I'm a resident here in Knox County. I'm a former Knox County teacher, and so I stand before you with great understanding and appreciation and respect for the teaching profession. As a teacher through the years, I realized there were things that I could not teach, and yet my students
211desperately needed to hear. And I'm not alone. There are many teachers who have a desire to teach their students faith and hope and watch the lives of some of their students spiral out of control. We all know the statistics. We've heard them. We've read them about drugs and abuse and crime and even the loss of life. I've discussed with teachers. That who have said if I could just share this one truth with these students Maybe their hearts and their lives would be changed but unfortunately some teachers feel silenced and students feel hopeless feel But yet we know that the things of the past were written so that the endurance taught in the scriptures and the encouragement they provide, we might have hope. Hope in spite of all of our failures and miscomings. God wants to
212have a relationship with us. He loves us so much that he sent his son Jesus to die for us. He died on the cross for our sin. And he was buried and he came back to life. And if we believe that, we can have everlasting life. And that's the hope that we cling to. I was told to step back from what I believe and think of the ramifications of release time. But Bible release time is about loving, educating, and discipling the future generations. in the truth. If you step away from what you believe, then do you really believe it? As Edmund Burke said, the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. We cannot stand or sit idly by when we have the power to act. And not only
213the power, we have freedom. Men and women have given their lives so that we can be free. Free to speak, free to teach, and free to practice religion. Release time is allowing parents the opportunity to... to have their rights to be actively involved in their child's education. Release time is all inclusive. It's not like basketball or football or cheerleading where only the best can participate. It's not a country club where only those who have money can go. And it's not a birthday party where you can only invite your closest friends. It's open to anyone. If a parent wants their child to learn how they can have love, hope, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control, that is the parent's right. And if a parent does not want that for their child, that too is
214their right. Asking a question is not bullying. If a student asks another student why you go or do not go to release time, that opens a dialogue and it teaches them how to have a conversation and ask questions about why they believe what they believe. And we all know that one hour once a month away from school is not a detriment to students. But. One hour once a month of Bible release time can change the trajectory of a student's life. Probably say it's fair to say that most of us in this room want what is best for students We want them to be successful in many ways But what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and yet lose his soul? We want students to do well in school and not only
215in school But all of life and that is why this program is necessary. Thank you so much To the school board, I would like to say thank you for allowing me to come and speak, and I appreciate what you do. I have a close relationship to the education system. My wife is a math teacher, arguably one of the greatest math teachers in the state. You can check her reviews and her scores. Unbelievable. My daughter is a teacher in the elementary school system. unbelievable teacher. So I'm the weak link in the family chain, but I'm here because I'm a preacher of the gospel. I was called to do that. And so why are we connected to this thing called Bible release time? Why are we about celebrating the freedom that parents have to have an input
216in their child's education? Just one hour. The law says one hour a week. We're asking for one hour a month. Why would we choose to partner? and make ourselves vulnerable to the criticisms that you get. It's because as a church that truly believes that Jesus rocked this world and gives opportunity to change our eternal destiny, he's called us to color outside the lines. Some of us Christians, he's called us to grow a stiffer spine and stand up for what we believe in. And so as a church, we don't just meet together and talk about the love of Jesus. extend ourselves outside the four walls of our church building. We don't just do it in Bible release time. Every Monday night, we feed over 200 homeless people in downtown Knoxville. In the warm months, we shower
217them every week and provide everything they need. We also have a ministry called Veteran Friendly Congregation because veterans come home and they're wounded. They're wounded on the inside and they need somebody to extend a hand of welcome and love to them. We do that. We have a ministry called Celebrate Freedom, a ministry that reads out to addicts and people who have hurts, hangups, and habits. And then along comes Elgin Foundation and the opportunity to extend that same love, that same hope, that same experience to children. We're in. And so I applaud Sturkey Elementary School for being willing to step up to the plate and try this thing as a pilot. I applaud the Elgin Foundation for pushing against the grain. I applaud our two school board members who attended one of our activities and gave
218great reviews. I'm disappointed that the school board member who represents Sturkey, she didn't come. And so I would encourage all of you, we have one more left. Come and see what we do. When the dust settles, it's a law. It's a federal law. It's a state law. Parents want to exercise that right. And all day long, we can think that we can decide what's best for parents. But when it comes down to it, the parents have the greatest impact in their children. Let me just give a little rebuttal to some of the things I heard at the policy review meeting. We should not give another hour because parents already have them more than we do. They should. They're the parents. I heard this come out of somebody. It says, how can a teacher teach when
21970% of the class is gone? They can teach the best. The parent-teacher ratio just plummeted. That ought to be the best class of the whole month, maybe the year. Parents don't read the parental consent forms. That's an indictment on the ignorance of parents. I think parents are much more intelligent than some people want to give credit. Missing one class per month will affect their ability to audition for college scholarships one day in music and the arts. Come to one of our things. I will assure you that the children you watch will sing more than they will at school. And I haven't even been to the music time at school. They may miss out on watercolor. Watercolor won't change their eternal destiny. Bullying. Let me address bullying. It's my time. Let me address bullying and exclusivism.
220If we're going to make a decision because of the risk that some will be excluded or left out or even bullied, then I would encourage you to do away with the honor roll, with the beta club. with football, baseball, basketball, softball, volleyball, cheerleading, and every other organization that rewards and awards people who perform at a higher level. There's nothing that the school board can possibly embrace that's more inclusive than release time education because it's open to all, regardless of race, ethnicity, or background. So all of the arguments that we heard... are invalid. And then tonight we heard a whole lot about hypothetical situations. If everything the school board embraces was under as much scrutiny as this is, there would be no time for, there would be nothing, no extracurricular activities would be available in the
221school system. I appreciate you. I appreciate all you stand for fighting for the children of Knox County Schools, but I encourage you to allow. bible release time in our schools and thank you very much for your time Hi, Superintendent Thomas, Chairwoman Horn, and board members. I am thankful for the opportunity to be here. I'm thankful that my country gives me the opportunity as a parent to practice that right, to be able to decide what I think is most important for my children. I have two children at Sturkey Elementary. One is eight, one is nine. I also have a two-year-old that will one day attend Sturkey, and one due in February that I hope will be at Sturkey. And so I am... Very invested into how much my kids turn out. I'm a huge family man,
222and I have huge stakes in this you could say My children attended private school for about two years kindergarten and first grade I was a young man at the time and my parents stepped up and offered to pay for it, and I let them and Once I got married and grew up a little bit, I realized, you know, I need to be financially responsible for myself, and we no longer allowed them to take care of that. I really miss the opportunity to have my kids have the opportunity to practice what they believe and have the freedom to do so. With that, I'm extremely thankful, again, for that opportunity as a parent to allow my child to attend one hour a month, one hour a month. I attended. They gave me the opportunity to go to
223one of the sessions and see how it went down. I was amazed at what I saw. I saw kids dancing. I saw kids getting up in front of 30 of their peers and praying. Because they felt like they felt for the first time that they could actually practice what they believe I cried during the session because my daughter who's outrageously shy got up in front of all of her peers and danced and did the signal everything in front of all of her peers and That really made me feel something This opportunity I think is extremely important and I'll end on this I read the other I was reading the other day in mark Whenever the children tried to come to Jesus and his disciples disputed him. He said, Permit the children to come to me.
224Do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to those such as these. I believe refusing the children in this program would be a mistake that will echo on for generations and generations to come, and that needs to be very considered. Thank you. The next speaker is Betty Hopkirk. Good evening. I'm Betsy Hopkirk. I'm out of Knox County. I live in South Knoxville. I'm an art teacher at West Hills Elementary School where I've been teaching for 10 years. I'm concerned about the religious release program that's currently being piloted in Knox County school system because the pilot program suggests it will, it looks like it will exclusively impact encore classes and the arts along with some other classes that are not tested. That's my issue. We are having to accommodate this release program. I would
225like to share my perspective as an elementary school art teacher at West Hills. At West Hills, we have 700 students. I'm the only art teacher. I teach all 700 students from kindergarten to fifth grade. I teach six art classes per day, which means I teach 125 students per day. I teach a total of 36 different classes every six days for 45 minutes. You can imagine. that it's challenging to maintain continuity as a teacher when you only see students every six days, and it's challenging for students to pick up where they left off after six days. You need to know that to add a program that deliberately pulls students out of our classes would mean that I may not teach those students again for two to four weeks. I will have to track who missed what
226class and when. Students will get behind, which will create a disruptive learning environment basically for the whole class. And yes, there are field trips and there are assemblies, but at an elementary school, you don't pull, we don't have cheerleaders, we don't have football teams. The whole class participates in those events, not just a handful of classes. Elementary school children need more structure. I think it's disruptive. And in the pilot where they had up to 12 students miss classes, that's disruptive. We were talking about the evaluation. What if I'm evaluated the class after where I had three, five, 10, 12 students who missed class do the release? They will they're not going to be as up to speed as everyone else But I will be held accountable for them knowing the the material we have an
227evaluation system That's been put into place by you and your predecessors So is it what are we doing here for the teachers in this situation? What kind of position you're putting us in a position, and I don't like that they were being pitted Arts versus religion that is totally unfair The art curriculum supports and reinforces the larger curriculum in the school. Math, science, social studies, and writing are integrated in my curriculum, and the art curriculum stands on its own. The arts literally developed part of children's brains that other academic disciplines do not. And this section that talks about students will assume responsibility for any missed schoolwork. It's a fantasy in elementary school. We work with clay. We have three consecutive lessons where they learn some skills so that they can make a quality piece of
228artwork. How exactly would elementary schools assume responsibility for missing a ceramics class? In fifth grade, my students are learning stop-motion animation with iPads. They work in small groups. They write their scripts. It would be impossible to make up an experience of that type of group work. Something I have to frequently remind people about is that over the school year students come to art about 28 times which means they receive about 21 hours of instruction. You compare that to social studies in third grade, they get 148 hours of instruction. And yet, at the same time, I'm held to the same standards of accountability as every other teacher, I'm evaluated with the same rubric as every other teacher, and I value my instruction time with my students just like every other teacher. The bottom line is Knox
229County Schools, I don't feel like you get to have it both ways. If you expect me to provide a high quality, integrated, cohesive arts education to every student, which is my job. You can't at the same time undermine my efforts by intentionally allowing students to miss my classes. I am relying on you to continue to support the arts and what they offer by protecting the precious time we get to have with our students. And I welcome you to reach out to me anytime. I welcome you to come visit me in my art room to get a clearer understanding of my teaching environment and my reality. Thank you. Next speaker is Reverend Jameda Alston. Jameda Alston. Too old to move fast. It's been very interesting listening to the different points of view. And only one person
230came close to the issue that I'm bringing tonight. And I thank you for that, Ms. Owens. Madam Chair, Superintendent, Board. There are many reasons to oppose this, but I'm not going to be the one to bring about separation of church and state. I'm not going to be the one to bring about the value of education and how to balance the needs of students. You know what your statistics look like regarding how well the school system is doing. If you feel it's appropriate if someone in a remedial class can claim that they should be released to religion, that's something you'll have to determine. My concern is child safety. I'm Jameda Austin. I am a pastor, second career. The first career was a prosecutor doing child abuse, sexual abuse cases, and also litigating incest custody cases. There
231is nowhere in the state statute and no one has really mentioned the need for this independent agency to be bonded and to be reviewed and certified for background checks. There is this negativity or this or just plain blindness to the fact that churches are one of the worst places for, well, maybe the best place for pedophiles to travel. There's a fallacy that churches are safe havens for children. The statistics prove the exact opposite. They also prove that schools who have background checks, statutory checks, you have everything in place. 30% of the reason teachers lose their license is because of sexual misconduct. So if you're not willing to develop a policy to protect the children that are going out, making demands on the churches who are going to bring you programs, making, not will you provide
232it, mandate it. The school districts require extensive, yes, I substituted in this county. I know what I had to go to to prove that I would be a safe person. Churches are made up of sinners and not saints. So that when you are bringing someone in to have your child taught and to dance and play, the most fearful thing I heard when that child said, I love it, I'm happy, I feel safe. How do you think children are groomed? Is there anyone up here who has experience in recognizing child abuse? Because if you do and have experience, you would know. that you need to mandate something stronger than, oh, they can provide who attends. Yes, the liability has been removed from you, and the reliability has been placed on church groups with no exacting, no
233demands on them. They're not even required to be certified to teach what they're going to teach. We automatically assume churches are trustworthy. We automatically believe that nice people mask sick and dangerous behaviors. And the poor theology that says that we can't say anything against a pastor is wrong. It is also a poor theology when we say, well, you should go talk to the church or the pastor. The child never stands as an equal next to an abuser. So when you discuss this, We are saying that we are willing to send our children off to a situation without any protections on the sole belief that churches are safe. This is a feel-good statute made to make someone happy. In 1914, when this organization started, we didn't talk about child abuse. Today, 2019, we talk about children
234being safe. And you cannot continue to sit here and talk about this and not acknowledge that you are not doing anything to protect the children that we all have a responsibility for. I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe that Jesus will help us, hold us, protect us. But we have to use the intelligence we were given to protect our children. Pastor, your time is up. You're a heritage from God. Thank you. Karen Bertolini. Hi. I'm Karen Bertolini. I'm a teacher at Rocky Hill Elementary. I've taught for about 20 years. And I live in El Paso. I used to live in El Paso County in Colorado. I live in Knox County now. Thank you for hearing me today. Thank you for all the hard work you do. Thank you. I know that you put so much
235time into your decisions and what you do. What I have to say very much piggybacks what Betsy Hopkirk had to say. Think it's so important to talk about what she said as an art teacher I See my kids once a week. I have about 775 kids I see each week 125 each day since I teach six classes And I want to give you kind of a walk in my world. So a unit is maybe four lessons long. Each lesson happens one week at a time. The first lesson might look like an introduction to what the process is going to be, what we're going to be doing. It includes art history, and it includes time for the kids to plan in their sketchbooks what their art is going to be. The second lesson would be me.
236given a demonstration of how to do the process, how to use the tools and use them safely, and then the kids would be able to start their process. That would overflow into week three and sometimes into the first half of week four. During week four, the kids will finish up their art, they will self-assess, they'll write a self-assessment or an artist statement. Sometimes we'll do a gallery walk where we put all the art on the tables and the class walks around the room and gets to look at the art and make peer comments on it. They learn how to critique kindly. Missing one hour a month does not seem big. But because art is not a tested subject, it is huge within that four-lesson unit. If a child misses the first lesson, they don't have
237the art history and the ability to practice in their sketchbook. If they miss the second lesson, they've missed out on learning how to do the process and do it safely. If they miss the third lesson, they're not going to be able to finish their art. If they miss the fourth lesson, then they don't get to... Hear what other kids have to say about their art or even write about their own art It is important for them to be at every single lesson one hour a month is huge when you only get kids about 22 to 28 hours a year a Year, that's what I get and we do amazing things during that time But only if the kids are with me on a regular basis Please please Let that sink in. I have no disagreement
238with parents. I have no disagreement with faith. I'm a parent. I'm a woman of faith. But this, what seems to be one small hour, is huge in the classes that are being taken, these kids are being taken from. And that's what I'm begging you to hear. I find it odd that... Teachers are arguing for this time. And yes, it is a fight. I'm fighting for my classes. I'm fighting for the kids that I love and work with. And I'm fighting for a chance to give them the best education I can. Now, in my last minute, I want to talk about what this might look like a couple years out. Because right now, we're talking about one organization. Once one organization is in the schools, that opens the doors for other organizations. It's opening up the
239doors. And so let's look at my class that is meeting the needs of the kids over that one four-day unit or four-hour unit a couple years from now when maybe there's three or four different organizations pulling out for one hour a week. Never know when the kids are going to be there. I'm not going to know who's going to get the first lesson or the second or the third or the fourth. I might have four kids one day, 25 another. I'll never know. I will never know because that's how things work at the elementary level. I beg you to please consider what our purpose is, learning and teaching. That is who we are as a board, as teachers. Thank you. Jennifer Long. My name is Jennifer Long, and I was born and raised, and I
240still live in Knoxville. I think it's a great place to live. Within the past 15 years, sadly, at both my elementary school in Skip Norwood and my high school, Central High School, there were shootings. And I would like to see things, therefore, improve for the children that are being brought up here today. Therefore, I hope that Bible release time will get to continue. because there is proof that it has improved the lives of children in other Tennessee counties and states. I am a Christian, and I do believe there is one true God, and there is Satan. God is good, and Satan is evil, and God's enemy. The Bible is the one source of God's truth that is being taught at the Time Release Bible Study to change children's lives for the better. Satan hates that.
241And I know that if children aren't taught as they are in the Bible and at Bible release time that they were created by a God that loves them and has a purpose for their life, that they can self-destruct as well as destroy the lives of other children or shorten their lives. As Joseph shared in the Old Testament of the Bible with his brothers, he sold them into slavery right before the historical great famine. He shared in the book of Genesis, chapter 50, verse 20, you intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. So I implore you to consider. letting time-release bubble study continue so that children's lives can continue to improve in Knoxville today. Thank you. The next speaker is Ginger
242Treece. My name is Ginger Treece, and I live in Knox County. Thank you for allowing me this opportunity to speak to you tonight. I'm here as a mother of three, a citizen, a voter, and a friend. I want to encourage you for the continuation of the Bible release time at Sturkey Elementary and for all of Knox County. It's my understanding there's no legal obstructions to this program in Knox County under state or federal law, and nor is there any cost to the taxpayer. So I was thrilled to learn about this pilot program at Starkey Elementary. I wasn't aware of it until I heard about it on the news, but I had seen firsthand the benefits of the Bible Release Program in other counties. And I taught a workshop at a summer camp for kids, and
243I knew of scholarships that had been given to the kids through those who were part of that Bible release program. One of the girls who was there was on the autism spectrum, and she struggled at school, but she thrived at camp with those who were around there and with her. She made friends, and her family was thrilled to have this opportunity for their daughter. If they didn't have Bible release time, that opportunity would have never happened. So another thing, many families have to work during the times of church services now, and they're not able to take their kids to church. This gives parents one hour a month to do something for their kids that they cannot do. I've seen the Bible release time groups provide shoes and clothings for children. in the schools that they
244have that. And the principals were able to contact the Bible Release Program people about needing clothes, underwear for children who have accidents, like a little clothing closet for them. And they received the help that they needed. Yesterday was Giving Tuesday, and I received an email from Randy Boyd, and he was asking for mentors for the Tennessee Promise. And he said, it's not about giving money, it's also about giving our time. Volunteering as a mentor is one of the best ways we can help first-generation Tennessee Promise students get off to a great start and succeed in college. And he says, it only takes one hour each month. It can make a lifetime difference in the lives of deserving students and help our state and local communities prosper for years to come. I think we need to
245be thankful for groups who come to assist our teachers in schools and who are willing to give their time and resources simply because they care. So I'm asking you to please give parents the opportunity to allow their children to participate in this program. Another thought I had was with suicide rates, depression at an all-time high, with bullying and racism needing to be stopped, I believe teaching children principles found in Scripture can have wonderful results. And I had two Scriptures. One is Jeremiah 29.11. It says, For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. And the other verse was Romans 12.10. It says, Be devoted one to another in love. Honor one another above yourselves. And
246that's what we need to be teaching our children, to love each other, care for each other, prefer one another. Anyhow, those are my thoughts. So please consider these things in your decision. I pray that you and your families are blessed and that Knox County teachers, students, and the board prosper in all things that we need for our kids. Thank you. Speaker this evening is Dave Gorman. I'm Dave Gorman from Knox County. Members of the Knox County School Board, Mr. Superintendent, I'm going to read from a shortened version of a letter that I recently sent to you about release time. And thank you to those members who responded and shared your position. I'm here tonight to express my opposition to allowing the release time program into our public schools. All too often, schools are seen as
247either the cause or the cure for many of the social issues. And teachers find themselves doing so much more for their students than just teaching their curriculum. And sometimes just teaching that curriculum leads to difficulty or controversy in the classroom. My colleagues who teach social studies are required to teach about the tenets of world religions, including Christianity, traditional African religions, Shintoism, Islam, Judaism, Animism, Taoism, and Buddhism. The regular outcry from a small but bigoted segment of Tennessee against any instruction about Islam, for example, shows how much we have to learn about tolerance and differentiation. It's ugly and intimidating. As a science teacher, I teach about evolution, and every year I have several students who are eager to tell me that they don't believe in evolution. They sometimes don't know much about it, other than maybe
248telling me that man came from apes or didn't come from apes, but they know they're against it. I let them know that they're still required to know what it is, and that a belief in something or against something isn't the same as understanding what it is, although it's crucial to have both if you are going to believe in something. We work to reach that level of discourse. But there's a distinct pushback from some outside the schools who would insist, rather, that the teaching about evolution or non-Christian religions is somehow out of place in a public school. Clearly, religious instruction is important to believers and has a place in our diverse society. But that place should and must remain separate from public schools. And while this program is proposed and is demonstrated so far at Sturkey
249Elementary, it takes place during school hours, but off campus, I'm opposed to regularly using our limited time during the school day for this type of activity. We get about seven hours a day with kids. If this program is truly necessary, then perhaps it could be held after school, and we could just leave the schools out of it completely. It's a slippery slope to be sure, and I just don't think Knox County will truly be tolerant if a non-Christian church, a temple, mosque, or other organization asks to receive the same access to the children in our public schools. And finally, parents who wish to provide religious instruction for their children have many options to explore, and most of them don't disrupt the public school day, but this one does. Thank you for your time and consideration.
250I promise I was listening. I just, like, for a second was waiting for the next speaker. I think that's the last one. Thank you. Thank you all for your comments and your attention. We have board forum. Ms. Satterfield, Ms. Owen. I'll be brief, I promise. It's little. Okay, okay. As a music teacher in Knox County for 18 of my 23 years teaching, I want to be sure that everyone understands why we're not hearing from music teachers tonight. It's because during this season, they are participating in a multitude of programs with their churches, preparing for Christmas with their choirs, their instrumental ensembles. a wide variety of activities that they have going on right now. And all of those activities that they are preparing for right now would be impacted by our decision tonight. Thank you. Thank
251you, Mr. Norman. Ms. Fabb. While it pains me to say this, congratulations to Central on winning the semifinals and beating West. Go Bobcats. But I'm proud we're going to have a Knox County team in the state finals. great miss bill miss bounce miss christie okay i know your poor voice we are adjourned thank you