Ann Arbor Renters Commission 12/15/2022

001the the renters commission is to advise the city council and the city administrator in matters affecting renters in our city so our commission is made up of voting members who are appointed by the mayor and approved by city council of City Council Members appointed by the city council of non-voting Liaisons to the housing and Human Services Advisory Board hhsib of non-voting members representing different landlord positions uh perspectives rather which are to be filled shortly uh and of a non-voting representative to the University of Michigan Student Legal Services SLS uh to speak during any of the public comment opportunities which will come up later you will be able to speak through the webinar link or by phone depending on how you want to do it for phone access please call 877-853-5247 and enter meeting ID 935-8080-1941

002you don't need to have signed up in advance you can just call in and if you're calling on your phone press star nine uh or if you're on Zoom use the raise hand feature and our web link is eight to go a2gov.org forward slash renters commission meeting each word has a first letter capitalized renter's commission meeting uh you won't let me call down by City staff to make your comment uh City staff will indicate when callers have 30 seconds left of their three-minute comment period and after three minutes they'll be placed on mute so we can go to the next speaker so let's move on to roll call item number two so please include the city and state you're calling you're calling from so we'll start I'm here I'm calling from Ann Arbor commissioner Chen

003um a number from my home calling thank you thank you commissioner Peterson I am calling in from Ann Arbor as well wonderful commissioner Kelly hi I'm calling in from Ann Arbor welcome commissioner Mukherjee hi calling in from Ann Arbor commissioner Cohen Smith here I'm calling in from New York City very interesting commissioner Redmond hi I'm calling in from Ann Arbor great to see you commissioner Cato commissioner rumel calling in from Ann Arbor Township wonderful so we have one two three four five six seven eight phony members here that counted correctly council member redina here in Ann Arbor welcome uh and councilmember Harrison who has not yet joined us just make sure not in attendees okay and our University of Michigan Student Legal Services liaison Gail Rosen appear to be here okay uh our appointed hhsib

004liaison Karen wanza not here either uh and then our city staff members present um Kristen yep um and from Ann Arbor do I have to do are you do I have to do the roll call for you as well I don't think so it's good to acknowledge um that we're both here just in case anyone is listening in um but okay thank you and welcome um and John Reiser in our city attorney president as well Malcolm okay um well I don't believe we have any of our new members here yet I guess the only one that has been officially uh has officially joined the commission is the council member Harrison so I think we can skip over 2A which is introductions and move on to three approval of uh our agenda is presented right do

005we have a motion to approve our agenda so moved thank you Nick oh Kristen uh did you have a what was there an amendment for tonight's agenda or that's right uh thank you one moment I totally forgot about that so I guess I will make owl motion to amend the agenda we should we should move and support the agenda first and then and then can amend it yeah okay I see thank you Travis excuse me so uh okay so the emotion emotion uh from Nick is do we have a second for the motion to approve the agenda okay uh seconded by Patrick okay um all those in favor say yay this is where you would amend first yeah sorry so you make the motion you you move and support it and that opens it for

006discussion so this in this discussion period before you vote you could amend it gotcha and then and then we'll approve as amended perfect okay thank you very much so at this point I will motion to amend the agenda um to include one point of discussion on um uh U of M student housing study um and I'll explain more about that but we were invited to participate in the the planning of a housing study I think there's a group on campus trying to get a grant to do such a study they were invite finally invited us to participate uh so is there a second to that motion second a second okay all right Lucy first or second by Lucy Travis was there something that I had missed is there somewhere you in particular you would like

007to put it on the agenda yeah um it's a good question hey people for planning for the next meeting yeah I suppose I could have done this during the reports from Commissioners I I wasn't used to having it on their bed I guess this maybe requires a bit more of a discussion um yeah that sounds good Kristen so let's see we'll make it 6s 6f moving planning for the next meeting six G okay perfect all right so seconded by Lucy I believe all those in favor of amending the agenda to add this discussion Point say yay all those opposed say name okay the agenda is amended accordingly and now we vote on the amended agenda sorry this is getting all technical um and Travis just taught me another mistake so uh do we need another

008second or do we just go into voting no okay so all those in favor of adopting this amended agenda say yay yay yeah all those opposed say nay okay so that is our agenda as amended okay now we move on to approval of minutes we have two meetings minutes that uh need to be approved uh the minutes from September 15th and from November 17th so do we have a motion to approve these minutes a commotion okay thank you Hannah second oh second thanks Patrick okay uh all those in favor of approving our previous minutes from those two meetings say yay I was supposed to say name Okay so we've approved our previous minutes now we move on to our first public comment uh Kristen would you like to take this over thank you so for

009our first public comment this was an opportunity for members of the public to speak for up to three minutes about any item if you are watching and you'd like uh to call in the phone access please call 877-853-5247 or 888-788-0099 and enter meeting ID -8080-1941 after you call in you can press star nine if you are watching via Zoom you can use the raise hand feature so if anyone would like to address the renters commission go ahead and raise your hand now we'll give it just a minute in case anyone is watching and we do have a few folks in the waiting room okay um seeing no callers or hands raised will close first public comments thank you Kristen so we will move on to our business um now Kristen I know that we're supposed

010to do public or allow for public comment I guess we agreed in a previous meeting but for each uh point of business is that right yeah so we started doing that a couple of meetings ago just so that someone doesn't have to um wait a long time before discussing it they just want to make one comment so you can open up uh public comments once we just read the instructions at the beginning of the meeting and then I gave them again um will just open up again uh to offer if anyone would like to address the renters commission about the tenant education committee maybe if they watched the last meeting or something sure yes oops so uh if you'd like to make a public comment you can raise your hand about that otherwise um I

011think we can give the update um would either you know Richard Hanna or AJ would any of you would like to give a brief update about what we discussed at that meeting I can start if you'd like and then please do chime in if I've missed anything and of course we can open it up for discussion with a wider group also uh so on December 6th I think that was last week we met there were about five I think four or five of us and Kristen uh the objective of that meeting was to brainstorm a little bit about what the responsibilities of the renters commission sub committee uh that would look into tenant education could look like because at our previous meeting we had an agenda item related to subcommittees and there was a comment

012I think from Gail that it would be nice for us to first kind of set some expectations from various subcommittees and then maybe people could opt in once they had a better understanding of what it would really entail to be in those groups so we discussed our own like vision for tenant education materials based on our own experiences based on what other tenants have told us and we agreed that it would be nice to have a packet of tenant education materials that could be available digitally but also printed depending on whatever tenants prefer and this would be an opportunity for tenants to kind of educate themselves on their own time if they had any questions about you know tenants rights and responsibilities at the city level and also at the state level we in particular

013talked about the tenants rights and duties handbook and the housing code and we agreed that the language in these texts is a little kind of jargony and maybe uh they're also kind of lengthy they include some information that's maybe less actionable than others so we thought it would be nice to revisit those ourselves and highlight uh some elements that we feel would be helpful to tenants of course uh all of this would be reviewed by the larger commission this is just you know few of us and there are some biases I know for myself like I would focus more on some aspects of tenant education uh but other Commissioners might feel differently so this it would be nice to do this as a group exercise as far as possible we also discussed that some organizations

014have already done this well at the state level so maybe we don't want to reinvent the wheel but link people to these documents and we know that the renters commission website is one place where we have a little bit of autonomy over links that can be added and things like that so in terms of next steps one of the things that we thought would be helpful was to compile a list of available resources things like I think Zach had mentioned MSU has uh has published a practical guide for tenants and landlords it's digitally available we know that we the people Michigan has uh know your rights report that was published in 2021. there's also Michigan legal help that has its own sections on the website for things like evictions uh information on security deposits Etc

015so these are things that could be linked on the website fairly quickly but I think at our end it would be nice if we could just compile what's there and make sure we're doing as thorough possible as possible a job of identifying what's already out there and then as I mentioned kind of reviewing these the two documents ourselves the tenants rights and duties handbook the housing code and seeing what we can highlight I think Zack had mentioned it's important to advertise these things properly in like formats that are a little more attractive and easy to comprehend so um you know maybe share quick highlights and then direct people to the source documents like a link or a QR code or something but just a primer would be nice to share with people uh digitally and

016offline and lastly we also discussed meeting once more because you know this was our first attempt at drafting a process so sometime before the next January 19th meeting maybe we could all regroup see if these what we set out to do is actually like manageable if we need to adjust maybe we can do that as well but I'll pause here and allow the others to chime in uh I thought that was fairly complete I can only uh add one item that may be of interest um and Kristen may be better to actually explain this but there is the matter as it relates to updating of the handbook there is a timeline associated with that and Kristen you may want to walk us briefly through that in terms of how the council would have to approve

017it so with updating the handbook there's kind of two parts there's updating the handbook to um like amend the charter to be able to update the handbook freely and then there's the matter of updating the handbook to include um the new section of chapter 105 that was just passed so the charter amendment is a long-term uh saying for the renters commission to tackle it's definitely doable but it will just probably take about a year and a half from now um but to include the new section that's something that staff has been talking about um we've been trying to think about what would be efficient um to be able to provide to landlords and tenants because right now the city has copies that have like a folded section of the of Elo kind of stuffed into

018it and then there are copies that have it printed in there I believe um and there are like over a thousand are possibly thousands of printed copies like that so we've been um brainstorming about what's efficient um good use of like resources from a sustainability perspective or a staff time um so that's kind of new we didn't really talk about that um with a small group but if anyone has any ideas uh we welcome them well I think this is something that the education committee is going to have to discuss further um and read through the charter to see what exactly can be changed because I know that there are guidelines um and uh just so everyone is aware that some of the more recent updates to the city for the housing code in particular

019are not in here um the the amen the amendment that took place to the Earth leasing ordinance is not in here neither is the recently adopted right to a new ordinance which is one of the main reasons why I think it's important to try to update this as soon as possible yeah I believe right now the copy that gets um I believe the copy that gets distributed if someone comes to the clerk's office has like a stapled print out folded um but it's not attached to it it's possible that a copy that was on but I think that that's what we're doing currently Verizon do you have a comment about yes it's you know it's in the charter which means it's hard to change you got to go to the vote of the people before

020you allowed us to change the font or the color of the paper or whatever right um sew up on the hand down uh landlords have asked whether they can supply it online or as a PDF attachment and I don't know if that would hinder tenants or for that would help them um maybe you could we could do something where landlords either embedded in their lease or send it as an attachment or landlords put it on their websites where people pay or and maybe we make them available at the rental housing offices or maybe we put them in the city hall um but they're you know our Charter drives how they're to be distributed and what's to be included in them and who can say what and where it has to be in the in the

021uh handbook and you folks have probably looked at all of that I just wanted to put this out here that if you haven't read this little booklet I would encourage that you do so you can get a free copy it on the second floor of City Hall or you can send me an email and I can mail one I know Kristen also offered um doesn't really matter but we can get these I've got quite a few we can get these out to everybody I know that some tenants I've spoken to are only receiving the digital version and not a physical copy already so I guess it'd be interesting to hear what the is there a policy of enforcement for the city in terms of digital versus physical no they're required to do physical and if

022we don't know about it we don't know about it okay it's not like we're giving them a pass on it we just don't know that it's happening uh and is there I know for the early leasing ordinance violations there was something on the rental Housing Services um website about how to report those violations do you know of any do you know what the procedure is for reporting violations of not of not providing these um well yeah I think it's a chat I'm got two computers going so I think I think it's a it would be a chapter 105 civil impression would those complaints go to rental Housing Services to to Janet or like general staff probably probably start there you know that's something we could definitely add to the renters commission web page yeah thank

023you Lucy yeah a question about the um changing the charter procedure on that I just I don't know a lot about it and since John Reiser and Kristen are here you guys probably know is is it possible in terms of the procedure is it that the city council would have to vote um to propose the amendment and then it has to go to election and then a sub question to that is that is it possible to call a special election out of time of the the general in the midterm so that we can get it done sooner than a year and a half uh probably those elections can be pretty expensive so um I don't know if you the answer I think is possible um why this item is a good fit for a November

024election is that a lot of the city's renting population lives in the city at that time um a special election would take place sort of in the summer so um that's something to consider and then like John Riser said cost of administering an election is substantial and city council would have to support the special election that's a great question or process I agreed I saw that councilmember Harrison just joined us um should we do the introductions after this discussion point maybe what do you think Kristen um either of us find now that we're on the spot a little bit if we want to take a quick pause not sure Nick is uh do you mind waiting on that or is it important urgent okay thank you all right well I think we all need to

025welcome councilmember Harrison to the commission we're very excited to have you on here and if you'd like to introduce yourself and I guess we can go around and do a round of introductions as well thank you hello everyone I apologize um that I was late this evening I just came back from a listening session um for unarmed crisis response so uh but I'm excited to be here tonight and uh yeah I'm Cynthia Harrison I um newer new council member it's been a long day uh in Ward one um boy today was like this was my fullest day back to back but this is what I've been really looking forward to anyhow uh yes Ward one I was born and raised in Ann Arbor um only lived here in Ann Arbor which is slightly unusual but

026you know here I am so um I'm a mother I'm a wife um I let's see um I've done a lot of work uh volunteerism in the area of um criminal legal reform and um well that basically with the intersection of um our criminal legal um hold on legal reform and mental illness and substance use disease and basically how they all intersect with one another so um just really happy to be here um very passionate about renters here in Ann Arbor I've had um um loved ones with uh not the greatest experiences and so um had to navigate some some situations so I'm really happy to be here uh it's one of my um number one choices I think this one and egg pack so I was fortunate to get um you know to be

027approved for both this one and Nick packs I'm excited so thank you for having me thank you for joining us I appreciate that you still came even after a very long day um so I think we can quickly go around and give a quick introduction of ourselves um you know me Zachariah I'm the chair of the commission I work for a Michigan medicine and research but in over the past two years I've gotten pretty involved in renters rights um and uh yeah I'll pass it off to uh let's see you can just do popcorn style I guess Hannah hi um so nice to meet you my name is Hannah I'm a second year law student at U of M um I live in Ward four and I am really excited that this commission exists because

028a lot of my law student friends are very stressed about renting right now I'll pop to Patrick hi my name is Patrick Kelly uh I'm a renter in Ann Arbor since 2008. [Music] um live here with my wife and uh four-year-old son I'm a public health professional with about 11 years of experience working in the field of Public Health and I went to the University of Michigan School of Public Health um from 2008 to 2010 and I'm very interested in in health policy and and Health Equity and housing and uh renters issues so uh happy to be here and welcome you can popcorn off to some uh someone else in the commission please uh let's go to Lucy it's been a while since I've done popcorn hey Lucy it's great to um have you on

029the commission um I am a PhD student at the University of Michigan I've been doing some renters advocacy work for a couple of years some tenant counseling and some legislative work what else am I supposed to say oh I'm Vice chair of this commission that's the other thing and I will pass it to Gail hi nice to meet you my name is Gail Rosen I am a housing attorney with Student Legal Services and I am liaison two of them on this committee um Travis yeah I I don't think I need to introduce myself to but I am the council member from ward 3 and the other liaison to this body um we'll go over to Nick uh I am already well acquainted with council member Harrison and I am a huge fan and I am

030so happy that uh she is joining us on the commission hello Cynthia hi Nick oh I will Bob uh Richard hi Cynthia this is the job I have been a resident of Ann Arbor for about I think three years now uh I work at the school of Public Health as research staff and yeah this is my second year probably just doing some tenant advocacy work I first got connected with tenants rights groups through Lucy who is who was in the Geo house in caucus last year sharing that and yeah it's been a good experience just learning about my rights in the process I'll pass it on to Dan Dan thank you hi thank you I'm Dan Dan um I'm a Community member of Avalon housing and I think I'm still uh learn try to learn

031as much as I could thank you um anyone else is there anyone else um uh yes AJ okay sorry say James CJ thank you hi Cynthia welcome I'm AJ Redmond uh I'm a resident of Ann Arbor I own a home here I was previously a renter and very passionate about renters issues and my in my spare time I do some marketing consultant I'm kind of retired from corporate career in marketing and so enjoying my recent move to Ann Arbor I've been resident here now for about two and a half years but welcome to the commission look forward to working with you thank you is there anybody else who hasn't introduced themselves who'd like to okay um well going yeah welcome again thank you so much thank you all um and back to the discussion uh

032we were on point uh let's see we were still on 6a 6-a which is uh the tenant education committee update um which is one of the Committees we've formed to try to edu to talk about how we want to educate tenants in the city about their rights um and Nick you had your hand up if you still remember yes they do so my question was and I think this came up before but forgive me if I um can't remember was there some anecdotal feedback about how tenants uh preferred to receive the rights and tenants whether it was electronically or on paper or which was more effective and of course I realized the charter issue but in terms of which has more impact do we have some feedback on that I believe it depends on different

033people for lots of people um they might need the paper because it's not that easy for them to have the whole setups to documents but for a lot of people I think it really doesn't matter whichever is convenient could be convenient they're not much different for me I think I'm okay with either one yeah as long as I could have that one I'm happy thank you thank you Dan Dan perhaps yeah I have a question um more for attorney Riser maybe although I might be putting him on the spot as they seem talking into his phone um I um wondered if one of the potential shorter term solutions to getting the guide updated is potentially just appointing some members to the the committee as currently established in the charter and and having them make some

034updates and then still pursuing the charter change if we want to change the way that this process happens in the future um I I think that would work so if you look in that Charter you know we have a chat on this I was going to uh control C control V into the chat but I don't know that we have a chat on here right no no no sorry no you could share your screen if you'd like no no no no so if you well maybe I all right um no pressure you could also read it no no no I haven't it's very it's like the world's worst longest paragraph So in 1911 talks about distribution of booklets and how they have to do that so 1911 in our Charter talks about the distribution of

035the booklets um it also talks about um enforcement under the charter if uh if a person fails to supply uh uh account with a booklet that's a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of up to 500 dollars and that's but may not be punished in jail but there's also under Section uh in our housing code we also talk about the booklets foreign so there's a little bit of redundancy between the charter in eight five one Thirty um that's a little different than what you're talking about I think uh council member redina about uh um you've muted yourself down yeah and I did mute because I was asking some folks at my house to be quiet um so uh uh yeah could you ask the question again sorry yeah I mean I I just wondered if I

036mean if we're trying to get some some updates made to the booklet now while we pursue the charter Amendment as well I believe that the charter would allow for us to appoint people to this body um from what I can tell I mean I think this is something we should pursue before me anyway I think the terms of these people as I'm reading it are for as long as the person wants um once they get appointed um unless a new mayor takes over and then replaces them but the current mayor can't it's a weird it's a very weird process that doesn't exist anywhere else in the city um but um I just wonder if if we want to make some quicker updates if this if we're looking at a year-long process to update the charter

037and to potentially maybe change the way that this book is written we could appoint a new tenance and whatever the group is called um this new bot or this body to start making updates correct well yeah the way it's written I mean generally there are three sections there's the landlord portion that they write that the tenant organization section that someone writes and then there's the stuff that the City attorney right so so we it could be Rewritten there wouldn't be any reason that we couldn't rewrite it with this batch uh is that what you're asking I'm right on that Kristen we can re we can rewrite it we can republish it uh we can get them out to landlords so that they can physically give them to their tenants we can let them know that

038uh if you don't give these out it's potentially uh you're going to get a ticket um so make sure you get them out um you're safe you're saying that we can um just like print new ones to include eight five three eight five three one because it's housing code and it references housing code yeah but we can but we can do more than just include 5 35 31 we could include whatever we want to include with respect uh what's in that booklet I mean other than we can't we can't edit the landlords portion but we could this body also couldn't edit the tenants portion of course yeah but but the city could edit their portion as well right that's exactly right and and you know as the guy who had a hand in in that

039I'd be open to what people think should be in there candidates landlords but in our section so getting at getting it edited and getting it printed is the easy part getting it changed the charter change so that it can be emailed or PDF or posted is a trickier part because that takes a vote of the people now [Music] um I'd be curious as to what method tennis would prefer do they all want a written copy or do nowadays do they want something PDF on their phones on their computers what would meet the needs of most tenants because I have had landlords ask if they can just email it yeah and I totally understand why I think that there's pros and cons obviously with both formats but before I go on with that I just wanted

040to make sure everyone understood that what's being referenced here that like there's a committee which that there's talking about is being talked about which is different than our tenants education Committee in the charter it's outlined how to make changes to the to the booklet and that requires that the mayor appoint people to a like rights and duties of tenants committee um that would be formed which is totally separate from our tenants education Committee just to make sure that everyone understands what's going on and um that process is outlined in the city Charter so you can go through that and control F rights and duties and tenants to read about that process um I don't want to spend too much time on this discussion since we do have the attendance education committee where we can have

041longer discussions about it but just on the format uh question I do want to mention that um I think that for the paper version um this you know that might be more accessible for older people who might not use technology as much uh but and I think it also stands out to people as well when they're handed a booklet rather than just like a small link and a pile of digital documents Etc um however if it's provided someone digitally then someone mentioned to me that you have it forever as opposed to okay you have this booklet you throw it away you don't have it anymore although having digital copies readily available online would be really great I know that we do have a digital copy of this online but it's not super easy to find

042I'll pass it off to Lucy yeah thanks for the clarification about the the mayor's committee Sakurai that actually helps a lot and okay so I'm I think I'm clear on the situation now which is that for the charter Amendment really we don't need the Charter amendment to change the content of the handbook we just need that to change the format of delivery right okay I think that's important I think everybody should have both because we don't know who people are and tenants are um highly undereducated about their rights so I think it's a more is more kind of situation but uh to the tenant education subcommittee I would I think this would also be a charter change I would recommend that that responsibility be taken out of the hands of landlords uh just anecdotally from

043from the many many tenants that I've spoken to in this city not one of them has ever received a hard copy of this book and I think you know our priority is is tenants knowing their rights it would be great if landlords um followed this law but as as John was saying at the beginning it's pretty difficult to enforce would probably be better to have that be the city's responsibility rather than the landlord's responsibility in terms of actually um getting tenants to stand up for themselves and to be able to enforce renters rights in this city thank you thanks Lucy any other comments or questions about this before we move on to our next point of business just one final question where what are you talking about the charter has a committee that talks about

044revising it or what committee are you were you talking about Travis and Zach because I've got 19 up and it talks about the authors the yeah there is a tenants rights and duties booklet committee uh comprised of three landlord Advocates and three tenant Advocates right and that I don't know the last time that group has was actually appointed or met my guess is that it wasn't recent um but it also describes kind of the term in there which is that their term is until they resign or until the mayor who appointed them is replaced and the next mayor could replace them it's a it's a strange process um but it I think it's something that would be an alternative if we do need to make some updates more quickly is to potentially reappoint a body

045and we ask them to get to work thanks anything else on the tenant education committee update if not then we will move on to 6-b uh an update from our right to renew committee I see my name's here I think we haven't met yet um but we're planning on doing that I think the next couple weeks or at least in January I think and the purpose of this committee is to talk about how right to renew is going to be enforced um since you know there is a process for early leasing ordinance the amended early leasing ordinance violations uh you know on the website but I there hasn't yet been a procedure set up established form the right to renew violations once that's enforced anything else to add there for the people who are in

046that group before we meet foreign agree with everything you said we do plan to meet and uh and tackle that issue and there are two aspects to enforcement one is the city's role and the other is the role of private attorneys such as myself uh Ms Rosen and we've been uh had some other talks about what uh we can do to try to get some rulings from the courts on some of the open questions and hopefully we can find the right way to harmonize both what the city does and what tenants can do through the legal system thank you very much Nick if anyone would like to join that group and talk about how we're going to try to roll out the enforcement and make sure that everybody's aware of how what the law is

047and how it's going to be enforced you know landlords tenants everybody um please just shoot me an email or you can speak up now as well but unless there's anyone else who wants to make a comment on that we'll move on to our next piece of business which is uh 6-c approval of the 2023 renters commission regular meeting calendar pass it over to Kristen so this item is just your meeting calendar for next year's if you'd like to stick with the third Thursday at 7 30. those dates are included in your packet or if you'd like to see the dates I can share my screen um if there's any oh perfect um comment or discussion about it there are a couple of other days available to the renters commission for their regular televised meetings but

048unfortunately um none of them are after like business hours um we have a couple of 4 P.M slots on Thursdays and then there is a 3 P.M on Tuesdays but I believe there were some conflicts uh with that last time we looked at it need uh a motion someone to move to approve it and then a second and then um a Voice vote I can motion to approve I can second all right um all in favor of approving the 2023 calendar as presented oh God question I I have no issues with the schedule um is there any sentiment toward meeting changing to in-person meetings after the first of the year and is there anything we need to do like City approval Travis um in that regard or a Christian um I did um ask again

049kind of put out the renters commission may be interested in meeting in person I know that the rules have changed a little bit uh related to masking policy and social distancing related to covid-19 at City Hall at public meetings I believe so with those changes um I asked again but I haven't heard back yet so I anticipate an answer before your next meeting thanks Kristen I appreciate you following up on that sure so I don't have any further comment on prepare to vote in favor of the motion all right so um those in favor of approving the meeting calendar as presented for Zoom meetings at this time on the third Thursday of each month at 7 30. can say aye and then those opposed okay approved I'll send out calendar invites um the next within

050the next week or so and then the next item on the agenda for your approval tonight is your work plan um that you've been working to refine over the last several meetings um Zachariah do you have that handy to share your screen and I can pull it up yeah one moment thanks so this would be to approve the work plan as presented or if you'd like to make any um changes we could do as amended and then it would be approved for you for the coming year and it would also be sent over to city council as a communication of a report and then at the end of next year uh this group would report to city council I know reflecting on your year in the work plan any comments on priority level or item

051or anything that we could make a change to now we could do a motion to approve as presented we'll see yeah I'm wondering why um in the enforcement for chapter 105 would be under commissioner education that doesn't seem quite right to me I think that Loops back to the tenant education committee a little bit um with some uh like goals to inform on like what tenants like have can uh have valid complaints about what their landlord is supposed to be doing um things like that so we could change the language there but I think it was uh coming from that perspective thank God sorry yeah and I agree and I I recall that we will talk about is try to have um a collaborative educational session with City staff set up at one point that

052would help us understand what their role would be in enforcement uh to better inform the enforcement committee I that if I understand your question Lucy that's why I think that's under uh commission education we can do um we can add something about lip City staff here I think you're right next so that the group has a good understanding to be able to provide those tenant resources um cool okay I mean I think the other thing we wanted to do was was provide feedback to the city attorney's office to make enforcement more effective because there's a lot of issues with the Retro new and ELO and a lot of other the tenants rights handbook I mean that's why we were talking about forming the enforcement committee so that's that's not so much commissioner education as it

053is uh like collaboratively working with City staff and the City attorney yeah I I just want to point out there's also if you scroll up to the top section there uh the third bullet point also might address some of what commissioner Peterson's bringing up because it's also under under there is establishing and supporting the enforcement process I don't know if that's what you were looking for commissioner Peterson I think based on our conversation the last time the enforcement committee was more generalized than just right to renew and I don't see that reflected in the work plan I think I and I could be wrong I I'm I I think everybody's a little bit losing track of what committees exist and what committees don't exist which is understandable because we've discussed a lot of things um

054I think that so so far there isn't a broad enforcement committee that meets that is planning to meet the only enforcement committee that I'm aware of is the right to renew good enforcement committee that's just talking about how to get that specifically enforced however I could imagine that just being you know after we IT addresses right to renew being turned broadly into just like enforcement but I could be wrong so Kristen please correct me and I spoke I think that's correct I think everyone's um comment so far like is accurate I'm wondering how to best reflect that in the work plan how how you wanna how you like to like specify these if you'd like for them to be more defined in the work plan or if if you're okay with them being generalized in

055the work plan like with the understanding that there's some other steps that go with each point that's up to the group a little bit um I think I mean I I think that the I I see enforcement processes regarding ELO and right to renew and then of course the um owner occupied rentals part like all in the rental housing reform I think that's like I agree generally what we talked about it I'd be fine if it was clear in case we expanded in other areas for to say like establish and support personal process for chapter 105 sections in particular section 8531 right to renew like if we want it more generalized just to make it expand but I I do think right now it does reflect as everyone was saying what everything we've talked about

056um but if we think it should be clear for the city council to see I don't know and I think that you know these sections here these were made before we had talked about committees and and all that so I my understanding is that these individual points aren't necessarily like it's not like all of these are necessarily going to a certain committee my idea what my thinking my understanding I guess is that these individual the actions uh would be assigned to different committees um wherever it's appropriate I guess because we don't have like a rental housing reform and legislation committee I think that was just kind of a broad category of these items yep I think that's correct I think um they could go to specific committees or um work that the commission completes as

057a whole Lucy was there something that you wanted to see changed I thought Hannah's suggestion was really good okay Hannah do you mind repeating that please yeah just that um we could change the third one down to say something like establish and support enforcement processes for chapter one in particular the right to a new one just in case we want to ensure more than just right to renew which like I said I don't think we are right now but if we're worried that that would stop us from doing so later then we can just capture it more and so highlight that I see so just just broadening it to just parts of chapter 105. right is that right well I want to make sure I hit on what Lucy was worried about if we want

058to talk about other aspects of it I still think we want to prioritize right to renew but if there are other things Lucy's thinking of that need to be captured Travis go ahead yes thank you so what I'm hearing just to make sure we're all on the same page and Hannah correct me if um we're wrong or MRI is there would potentially be an amendment to to modify that third bullet to establish and support enforcement process for chapter 105 comma specifically section eight column 531 right to renew but that is that covering what you were looking for yes that's a clearer way of saying it thank you Rachel I I agree with what Lucy said and what Hannah like reiterated I just had a question so if it could be made even broader just to

059say enforcement process for like rental housing and specifically prioritizing chapter 105 Section 8 531 because I just for example notice that there is information around short-term rentals in chapter 97 and as we get if we get complaints around you know violations when it comes to acquiring licenses for those things right is does the work plan cover that somewhere like if we were my my guess is also that we already have an enforcement process for that so maybe it doesn't even fall into this the first initiative but it's more around tenant education but if you um if you find that your landlord is you know actually renting out the apartment on a short-term basis without having appropriate permissions what can you do so my question is just that there might be something outside chapter 105 and

060as long as we all agree that that is a possibility and we would still keep prioritizing those issues I'm fine with you know keeping it as is or just saying and for enforcement process for like rental housing I like that idea I don't see a downside to not putting it broader and just say like enforcement process for yeah local renting laws focusing on this here I think that sounds good to me yeah I agree I I have nothing against that I I think it really comes down to what we actually do and start discussing in the Committees um that's really important but yeah that change is fine so you'd like to amend to read um establish and support enforcement process for chapter 105. comma specifically section 8531 right to Reno oh sir I think specifically

061prioritizing because we're not just limiting into that but we're going to prioritize that okay I'm wondering if there's anything else that people wanted to see changed about this temperature maybe in the stakeholder education section in 2023 we want to bump up tenant landlord handbook update like right now it's impossible future projects as the second bullet point but if we want to convey to city council also as they review the work plan that we want to work on it so it's kind of in okay shape for like election time we can propose adding that to our table seems to make sense to me since we've discussed it quite a bit anything else um I guess I'm just wondering if we want to uh maybe make the eviction piece maybe a little more Broad and sort of

062understanding uh sort of what eviction looks like within Ann Arbor and then you know exploring uh diversion programs or interventions that we want to implement you're referring to this point yeah yeah that makes a lot of sense I think as well yeah that's actually really important that we have thoroughly understand what eviction looks like in our city and also look at the eviction diversion programs so what these changes is there a move um a motion to approve the work plan yeah all motion to approve it uh with the three changes we discussed the change up here making it clear that it's regarding enforcement of uh chapter 105. Section 8 generally but prioritizing like to renew is 531 the change here regarding tenant landlord handbook update putting that inside the table and making this broader to

063understanding eviction in the city of Ann Arbor and also researching eviction diversion programs elsewhere so that's the motion I make a second um those in favor say aye aye any opposed all right I will make those changes and I'll send it out to the group [Music] um and then also it will be in a communication to city council I realize also that we didn't open the public comment for this item or our previous item so if there is anyone um watching or listening who would like to address the renters Commission on either of those items you can call in now or you can use the raised hand feature from your computer and that was about the work plan the priorities commission um I will close it and then move on to the next item we

064do have a general public comment at the end Also if anyone wants to speak to the renters commitment um okay moving on to the next item six e we have um discuss setting a working session schedule or process when I watched the uh the meeting recording for your last meeting there was a lot of interest in um having some time set aside for the renters commission to have some of the discussions that um sometimes get uh maybe cut short at these meetings just because you've had so much business lately so I wanted to ask if you're interested in having a regular working session or if you like to schedule those on an ad hoc basis um the Planning Commission in the city of Ann Arbor holds a regular working session just on a different Tuesday

065then their regular meeting so that's an option because the meetings wouldn't need to be televised you'd have a lot of availability um or if you want to do them kind of on an add-on basis that's fine it's an opportunity to discuss that I guess my initial reaction um I think I'd probably be inclined to keep maybe the working meeting more ad hoc given that it seems like we want to push a lot of other work to smaller commissions or committees within the commission that seem like they'll be meeting kind of on a more regular basis so maybe keeping those uh uh now I'm losing track of uh all the proper vernacular for this but the the uh working meeting more ad hoc and the maybe the subcommittee meetings will be more regular but open to

066other thoughts as well listen yes I think this is a little bit different than what you're suggesting but I think we could use more support in scheduling and setting up our committee meetings there's a lot of committees it's kind of unclear who's bottom lining the scheduling and stuff like that so I don't know if there's a way for staff to support or maybe you could just like sketch out a good process for us that we can follow I feel like some things are slipping through the cracks because of that sure um I just agree with what I agree that sounded like disagree I just agree with what Patrick was saying I think ad hoc would be good for now I'm a fan of regular meetings but I think maybe that would work better for us

067in the future um when there's more traction from the subcommittees to I like the idea of this in between though of like maybe at some point some companies would have work and then there can be this broader working session to do more more of the discussion so it doesn't feel like things are ping-ponging between subcommittees and the general meetings too much and so I like the idea of that but I like ad hoc for now until that seems like a more regular need I just wanted to say I agree with Patrick as well okay um thank you it sounds like um maybe um like a monthly-ish check-in with the group to see if you'd like an ad hoc meeting maybe in the next couple of weeks um maybe after a week or two after each

068regular meeting check in with a group and see uh what the temperature is for a working session that would give a little bit of time for your small groups to me and see if there's anything uh bigger that you'd like to work on when I looked um last week this group met I think it will 12 times since July when you started so um a working session in addition to your regular meeting I think is uh like on Trend with your amount of meetings so um cool I'll check in um in the next couple of weeks to get that scheduled I'll turn it back over to um Zechariah for that um added item thank you um and thank you for helping with the agenda today Kristen it's pretty helpful so I recently attended uh a

069panel regarding affordable housing and there I met uh someone named Jamison Coleman I believe that's how you pronounce his last name and he's at the school of Public Health he's a manager of a new program there regarding um uh housing the intersection of Housing and public health so since a lot like what Patrick's uh educated and interested in so that's cool um and I had the conversation I had a conversation with them afterward but um there he informed me that they're interested in um let's see uh in doing a new research project um using a grant from I guess the Ginsburg Community Driven Grant from the University of Michigan and um they invited us to participate in that but we'd have to let them know soon if the renters commission is interested in having any

070participation and collaboration with it with this um it looks like let me see let me take a look whoops looks like so far we have um associate professor from the School of Public Health who's a pi principal investigator um Jameson the program manager of Housing Solutions for Health Equity also from public health Mark Simmons program manager of um beyond the diag so that's also the University of Michigan and the potentially the Ann Arbor renters Commission of course I know if they put my info here but anybody who owns commission who would like to participate if we choose to go ahead with us we'd be welcome to do so uh also Central student government and the project narrative that they're proposing is how the proposed project uh oh no let me take a look I haven't

071actually thoroughly read through this yet I only got this today let me just keep it there we can all just read through it scroll down here sorry if you don't read everything here so it looks like it's centered on um researching obviously off-campus student housing with two aims to examine the housing and neighborhood conditions of current U of M students and compare to existing resources determining Geographic gaps and services uh it looks like they're going to use um university data for that which is really cool and their second aim to examine the housing needs a view of the students living off campus you'll kind of two focus groups undergraduate and graduate students um yeah could you could you go back up for a moment I think of course well they've mentioned the I think the

072role of the renters commission oh yeah yeah that is oh um or maybe it's just describing what the renters commission is oh there we go um yeah I don't see exactly so are we the community partner then here yeah exactly exactly so we would be involved with the planning implementation and dissemination of the study in different capacities um present findings to the Ann Arbor renters commission to facilitate discussions on how students are shaping the existing rental market within the area and potential to policy Solutions so it sounds like there's a pretty low amount of required effort going into this um I don't know if he's if the door is open to more participation if uh that's that would be helpful to them but I was really excited um and I can send this on to

073everybody else as well but they're asking if if we wanted to sign on to this and what's the time frame for when they would need a decision from us by good question Monday the 19th of January I think no I'm sorry Monday the 19th of December so I'm probably got this on the agenda for today so we kind of have to make up our minds as to whether or not we want to participate I'm sorry to explain this on you last minute here I only got this this afternoon I can put anything on the screen if that's helpful or email it out to you right now um and I mean I think it seems like a great opportunity I guess I'd like to to know more um I I I'm familiar with with the the

074work of the pi so um you know I I think uh this this would be a good opportunity to work with her on on this um topic I'm wondering if maybe we could sort of tentatively accept with the you know the opportunity to maybe have a discussion with them or a phone call to learn more about how they Envision us fitting into the project most definitely any other thoughts Richard this I mean I agree with what Patrick said but just another comment on their proposal that I feel like they could include The Graduate employees organization as an important next stakeholder I don't know it just seems like the grad school grad student body is represented by them or RSG like I if they want student experiences my advice to them would be to also actively

075engage with those groups but I agree with what Patrick said about renters commission which is that yeah if we had more information it would be helpful because it's not clear to me exactly what they want or they just want to present at our meetings at a later stage like once the reports are ready or do they need us to facilitate some thing like some Outreach yeah I I my brief impression was that they need a community partner as part of the proposals that we would be kind of engaged throughout the process to help inform their Direction and then also hear the results and maybe help them try to kind of share the results with the broader immunity that we serve but is is this an internal U of M funding source or was the Ginsburg

076something yeah it's the Edward Ginsburg center it's part of university Michigan student life is my understanding it does um seem like there's not a huge amount of effort that we would need to put into this um but it he said in the email that um if you're interested in like forming this partnership um they would want us to sign on by Monday although I do agree with you Richa that um Central Student Government which is the only student organization on here um is more representative I think of undergrads it would make sense to suggest to them that they include either Ross or sorry Student Government um or Geo so uh oh go ahead Patrick I saw you I guess I was just wondering if um what what exactly they would need from us uh in

077terms of a commitment by Monday is do they need like a kind of a letter an official like letter of support or just our verbal agreement that we would uh be interested in collaborating I think they're looking for us to sign uh this here this form yeah okay and the product title is housing needs in neighborhood environments of University of Michigan off-campus students I think it's really great I mean we have a stake in the outcomes of This research knowing this information so for that reason I'm inclined to sign on to it but I agree with Richa that it's not clear what they're asking of us exactly yeah I'm wondering it seems like Patrick you're very interested in this uh Richard and Lucy perhaps uh maybe we could set up a zoom call with the

078person who sent this to me Jameson and talk about that together if you are interested before Monday I know it's kind of a last minute thing but would you would you four be interested I guess I think with myself you three be interested in doing that Richard in could we try the tentatively accept that Patrick mentioned and then like in case the next three days for some reason don't work out for a call extend it to whatever time period soon so that we can still have that conversation and iron out some more details just so we don't for whatever reason if some if a call doesn't get set up by Monday we can still keep this conversation going I agree okay um does anybody oppose that plan of us just tentatively accepting but asking to

079meet first uh hopefully before we sign in you know turn in any paperwork but if that's not possible we'll go ahead with a partnership and just try to meet as soon as possible with Jameson okay I guess do we need to get official guidance on how we sign for something is that Zach or are you able to sign officially for the whole Commission if we do get to that stage and does the city need to uh what's the word uh do we need a name what's the witness of someone uh he has unlimited powers uh Kristen or Travis I don't um is what you sent me earlier today all of the information you have so far okay um I'll talk about it with some stuff tomorrow and see if there'll be any issue with the

080renters commission kind of okay could you email or forward this email to all the members of the renters commission please thank you so much Kristen thank you okay I won't sign anything until I hear back from you Kristen make a mistake here okay anything else on on that potential study research study okay I'm really excited about that I think this is I'm so glad that connection was made so I guess it goes back to you Kristen right for 6-g yes um so planning for your next meeting uh which is in mid-January if there's anything specific you'd like on the agenda I know there was interest in um having some folks from rental housing come to a meeting as soon as possible we're looking at February or March for that with rental housing um kind of

081depending on staff availability and then also um uh having this group put together some questions um feels like uh kind of the next couple of weeks with some holiday overlap might be hard uh to compile and get questions over to rental housing and then give them time to prepare so we're looking at February or March so with that in mind do you have any um kind of must-haves for January okay I didn't update from both committees foreign I think this was a clarification so you said that by February or March the rental housing staff might have some availability to chat about their processes yeah so I think it's highly likely that it will either be February or March um just depending on um like the evening availability for for that stuff um those staff members

082sometimes have done some other night meetings so we're going to take a look at the calendar and see what works best for everyone so and that will give you all plenty of time to prepare any questions AJ I was thinking maybe for the January meeting it might be a good time just to start to have some more discussion around expectation of the timing for the town hall uh maybe a little further down the line from that but it may be a good time to at least have the discussions around that foreign be sure to follow up about that in person uh question that I have perfect and then this grant item might come up um also because that was kind of short term okay anything else all right so we can plan on that um

083if any anything comes up please definitely send me to know we'll see if we can get it on the agenda and I'll um the move on to item seven reports go back to Ozark it's gonna be thank you so much Kristen so uh looks like we have three reports I will start with 7-8 which is report from City Council so I'll open it up to our two City Council Members um if you have anything to report back to us yeah I can do a quick report um I did communicate Phoenix to hhsav uh letting them know that they may want to consider a new appointment I know that commissioner wanza has not been to one of our meetings um and and their other selection has since left the commission and so they are now aware

084that they might want to look for another person who could join us I am no longer on hhsab so I can't serve in that role in a in an ad hoc capacity um but I've let council members uh song and Watson know um I also wanted to give you the heads up and this could potentially be an update or a potential thing to add to a January meeting um if it comes together um council member Cornell reached out to me um I think many of you may have heard about the um death that happened at the Victory Inn with a carbon monoxide poisoning and after that she actually had a constituent Reach Out Who explained that their landlord did not have carbon monoxide detectors in their apartment and they had to go out and spend

085their own money to do that so she is looking into and is working with me and a couple of others on um making some changes to city code to require carbon monoxide detectors just like we would smoke detectors um I know that that attorney Reiser has been working with her as well and so I think there is a desire to get some feedback from this body um and or to potentially even bring a draft for you guys to to review and look at so that you're not having to add something else to your plates to draft to draft right away um but to bring something so that she could make sure that we're getting input from this group um on something that one of her constituents is requesting and that I think I expected would

086be um uh supported overwhelmingly by this group as something that should be updated in the city code as well um and so that could be coming soon I'm waiting to hear back from her on how she would like to kind of engage with this group on that um and then just one last update is that there are we have a number of vacancies here um the mayor has moved uh appointments for one of the the non-voting landlord seats Jordan else who's actually listening in um is on the agenda for Monday um and then uh Jeff Lowe's uh who was an applicant a long-term renter here in Ann Arbor um to replace the former commissioner wolf and then um there's a resolution to remove commissioner Cato um and make an appointment there as well um with

087Jamie Tibbetts and so uh Zechariah and I looked over uh the applications for quite some time and made some recommendations and then there are two additional vacancies both for one for the non-voting landlord and one for um commissioner Welch who resigned uh from the body as well and so I know that there is some interest in having more more folks weighing in on the applications and so there's another group of us that are working to schedule a meeting so that we can review those and make a brilliant recommendation for the additional seats thank you very much for that update um and I have one question um I know that you just you discussed talking with the city administrator about um enforcement of early leasing ordinance and um also right to renew I was wondering if

088you have any updates on there or if you haven't had the chance uh I actually messaged Kristen during this meeting that um that she and I should set something up with him so um it has not happened yet okay thank you all right well then I think that we can does anyone else have any questions before we go on our comments I I also just wanna I I don't want to assume that I had all of the updates and so I don't know if uh council member Harrison has any updates or from any of the other bodies she might serve on that might have input here as well actually I mean I did what you said I actually was communicating a little bit with Jen just now of right regarding the um carbon monoxide detector

089so um she basically said that um she was going to move it forward possibly but uh we you know we do think that this would be heavily supported from this commission so I'm excited about it so that was it just the same thing nothing else to add but thank you yeah thank you very much and I know this is kind of a tenuous connection but I know there's discussion about whether or not um the city is going to go forward with attempting to ban natural gas in new constructions which is related to carbon monoxide because a lot of you know that's how the carbon monoxide poisoning happens is through gas appliances so if you're interested in that you can tune into the energy commission it's my understanding it is currently with Planning Commission excuse me

090that's right because it would have to be a zoning thing right yeah so Planning Commission has had one public hearing and then they actually postponed it I believe um is it February I don't know if anyone on here knows the exact date um postponed to a date in the new year and so my expectation is there's going to be another opportunity for public to weigh in wonderful thank you okay um 7-b the report from the hhsib liaison uh we're gonna have to go skip over that one 7-c report from staff liaison most of my updates were already mentioned in the meeting I had um like around housing coming to the meeting update um so the only or right oh um so staff is working on getting the right training section into Unicode municode is the

091um like the city's vendor for um code online um so right now 8531 isn't in there but we're working on it um it's available Elsewhere on today's website [Music] um and then my other main update is that working with um I.T on some website updates um hopefully some navigation improvements to be able to have a little bit more info um instead of uh just kind of one long um page so I mean soon I'll send out a link when it's updated thank you very much for your hard work Kristin okay any questions about that report okay then I think we can move into our second public comment uh agenda point eight all right so the second public comment is an opportunity for members of the public to speak for up to three minutes until the

092rentals commissioned about any topic um anyone who would like to address the renter's commission should press star nine if listing by phone or use the raise hand feature if you're using the web link number is 877-853-5247 or 888-788-0099 meeting ID 953-8080-1941 you can raise your hand now or press star nine you can speak to the rental submission for up to three minutes I think you read the meeting ID incorrectly I think the five and the three so if you could read it one more time yes sorry the meeting ID to enter after you call in is nine three five uh here now nine three five eight zero eight zero one nine four one um if you're watching ptn also shows that on your screen so we'll give it just a few minutes we do have

093a couple of people in the waiting room all right so seeing no um indication from colors or attendees will close this public comment we can move on to um item eight did I introduce this um this sorry I'm so fine um just the communications we just received one email uh to the renters commission inbox um it's kind of oh um just with some concerns about the early leasing ordinance and what do we know go ahead um I just wanted to share with the the body also that this this email also came to all of council and so a number of council members responded um I did share my response with Kristen and Zechariah and I am comfortable with them sharing it out to all of you um so uh if the body wanted to to

094form their own response they can but I just wanted to let you know that this communication also went out to council um I don't think we need to discuss this for too long in my opinion but um I very much disagree with a lot of what Mr land had to say and I have no idea why any of the recently passed ordinances would have would make him treat his tenants worse which is what he's is if I'm understanding correctly is what he's claiming and he's claiming that he's no longer replacing fridges as a result of the ordinance amendment I really just don't see how the two are connected um but I guess I'm disappointed that he would talk about tenants and pretty this demeaning way in my opinion but that's all I have to say

095about it hey Nick thank you I um I was going to pass on commenting also we heard from Mr land you know early on in our meeting process and I understand some landlords are frustrated with this uh ordinance but the thing that really I mean besides the example that he would be less favorably inclined to help a tenant because of the ordinance the other thing that Disturbed me was the statement that we're building in acrimony I know I know of no tenants and can think of no reason why tenants feel more acrimonious toward landlords because of the right to renew ordinance if there's any acrimony it's not coming from tenants I will say on that note that um the one repeated frustration I keep hearing from tenants is that they are very concerned about waitlist

096deposits I had someone text me yesterday who was really worried that he was about about paying a two thousand dollar deposit and he didn't know if this was a good idea all I could tell him was you should talk to Student Legal Services immediately because he happens to be a student um but there's so many different variations on these waitlist fees and just because students are willing to pay them does not mean they want to pay them and that's one thing that keeps on coming up again and again um I think if anything that's really building mistrust and um and uh bad relationships between tenants and yeah words at the moment I hope we can address that in our ordinance in our enforcement committee I agree Cynthia what kind of um deposit with that that

097the individual it was um I can pull up the exact language I forgot to email this I just got this I guess today uh I'll email it onto the rest of the commission uh after I redact it but let me take a quick look uh essentially they're waitlist deposits um or their deposits uh to get to buy a an option a contract option where you are securing your place on a wait list to potentially get a rental unit if one is available but if in many cases if you are made if you're offered that rental unit and you don't you refuse it then you lose your money or in some cases even if you even if they can't offer a tenant um the unit you still lose your money so even if there wasn't one

098available you'd lose your money um the predatory practices basically and in general yeah we have a lot of documentation of it and I know there's some had disputed whether or not this some of these practices were occurring but they definitely are and we have um emails to show for it okay thank you and I will mention that we do have a a small group working on a report regarding these wait lists um the wait lists as well as the deposits and feeds that go along with them hopefully we'll have that ready by January so our January meeting but we'll see okay to move on to the next item okay and the next item is adjournment so do we have a motion to oh wait is that correct or did I skip over anything did we

099skip over the reports from commissioners I I think that was in the agenda but I didn't have it in my notes um that was seven Dash D so my bad uh should we my bad for not putting it in my nose um so yeah absolutely certainly okay well we'll go back and quickly do the the reports from Commissioners I guess is the idea we just go down the list and if anyone has anything to share um okay yeah that's fine okay let me see um all right well I'll just go to the list if you have anything to share you can um kind of share it to everybody if not that's totally fine and we can keep going uh so no pressure but let's start with AJ do you have anything to report back nothing

100to report no okay thank you Nick nothing right at this time thanks thanks no thank you uh let's see um Gail sorry no I don't okay I know you're our liaison but I don't think you've had a chance to I mean uh Patrick I can send this over email but I did just see something earlier today that there's going to be an upcoming training by the fair housing center of Southeast and mid-Michigan I think there's a a fee to participate but it's a housing Advocates training I think I took this last year and this is sort of like the maybe the next step a deeper dive into a practical fair housing and landlord tenant advocacy so I can forward that onto the Commissioners if they would be interested in in participating I think it is

101occurring in January and the 17th through the 19th but I'll pass that information along in case folks are interested yeah could you please email that to Kristen so that she can email it to everybody in the commission please yeah I can do that it's great thank you um see Lucy nothing to report thank you um richer I just want to quickly respond to what Patrick said and also add a few updates it's based on communication that we've received from tenants and maybe some things I've read on forums like Reddit about tenant issues so Patrick I also read about the housing at Advocates training and I wrote to the team because like I haven't taken the Hat plus training uh I asked if we could read up on some materials to prepare in advance and then

102go attend and they recommended attending that the basic training which they might schedule in March for those of us who haven't attended it in the past so I think it's like a two-step thing so you're right okay I've attended the the basic level thing you definitely are eligible to do the other one okay anyone has not attended the basic one they they said they'll be scheduling something in March okay thank you yeah I think I I took the first session like last spring of March or April so okay and yeah there were just a few complaints that we received within the graduate employees organizations housing caucus I did forward most of them to the renters commission like not necessarily expecting that we have answers to all of them but one issue was around uh just

103difficulty navigating the residential portal this came from Courthouse Square like a Courthouse Square tenant which is an I think Independent Living apartment complex in the west side of Ann Arbor the tenant was able to resolve it himself because he contacted the corporate office of real page which is the company that has its own like systems where like I think any property management company can adopt and then have their tenants use to make payments and things like that so just some issues maybe on accessibility because the tenants said that others in the building have also reported facing issues so just wanted to flag that maybe one tenant has been able to resolve it because he was very uh you know adamant on it and he has phone numbers of like legal experts and things like that

104from his past interactions with aatu two years ago so if at any point we want to look into issues the tenants are facing in certain you know in Senior Living properties that's something to think about secondly uh a tenant that I who I personally you know mentioned that her building might be violating the short-term rental laws in the city so I just sent the email to all Commissioners asking if there's any any way that this just to get some clarification on how the reporting process works for short-term rentals so if I could get a response off like you know outside of this meeting via email that would be really helpful or if off the top of your head you know the clear steps for reporting violations do let me know the third thing was a

105recent complaint that came from a tenant who's renting from a property management company just very unclear haphazard communication around lease renewal they've apparently not been emailing this tenant but just making phone calls saying that you know your apartment has been reserved by someone else uh so the tenant just felt like this was unexpected because there was no other communication that they could find but ask them to double check in their emails but I'm just saying that people landlords might not be putting it in writing but they are still pressuring tenants through phone calls and things like that so we should probably just keep amplifying the like any information around reporting these kinds of issues to us to the city things like that but I believe this tenant would also will also be reaching out to

106Gail soon through Student Legal Services so that's one good step for them but yeah these were the main updates from tenants thank you Richard it's a very thorough report that was awesome man thank you for that is there any commissioner that hasn't reported back out to us you know okay well then I think we can move on to 0.8 which is adjournment uh so do we have a motion to adjourn our meeting someone has a hand raised in the attendees I don't know if that oh there's time for that yeah um Kristen is that all right if we allow for the for public comment okay hello Maria hi can you hear me yes okay great uh hi uh my name is Maria I'm actually also an attorney I know many of you are on this

107commission as well and I'm the parent of a student who's a freshman and I wanted to share a little bit of a different perspective here um you know I don't see a lot of representation here for the undergrads and I know that you guys hear a lot from the grad students but I think that you know there's a little bit of missing perspective from undergrads and um you know my student is really in a precarious position but I don't think it's really that unusual um these ordinances are probably causing some unintended consequences first of all um you know try to make up a reminder of what to do for next year and unfortunately there's not an alignment between what University of Michigan is requiring her to do as a freshman to renew her year in

108the dorm or to choose to live off campus next year so she unfortunately is having to make her decision about the dorm much earlier than she's able to get Elise and I've read the ordinance I totally understand what's going on both this year and and what's going to be coming in the next year which is going to make it even more difficult and I've been talking to a lot of her friends including sophomores and like there's just a problem here like this thing is causing massive housing insecurity among the undergrad ads they practically go the entire year before they even know that they've got secure housing for the coming year these dates for for getting to be able to sign a lease on an apartment that's currently leased which pretty much Ann Arbor's leased up

109for the year they're so late in the year the kids are practically leaving campus by the time they get a chance to sign a lease and I mean maybe this is just very different you know I went to school on the east coast and and you know we had we were able to you know pretty much lock up our Apartments um you know in that January February area and enjoy our second semester knowing that we had a housing situation for the coming year and this calendar for the ordinance is not at all aligned with either the academic calendar like it's way too close to finals you know the showings don't don't happen until very close to finals um it's not aligned with what your University of Michigan is requiring of students to make a decision

110about staying in the dorm I mean I think that there's just not been a global look at what an actual undergraduate student's life is like as far as needing housing I mean I as a parent I've been very tempted to get in line with other parents and talk to you guys as a group because this is extremely uncomfortable for our kids thank you Maria I do appreciate the comment I since I was an undergrad just this year I think I can maybe respond to some of those points um so first of all the way it was before the leasing window we attempted to change the leasing window was that most people had already signed by October or November for the next year and if you didn't get an apartment then there was a good chance

111you weren't going to get a any sort of decent department for a student at a later date and one of the issues was actually the dorm assignments because the application deadline for getting a dorm or for turning in the application to get a dorm is actually in May so according to the um website so people were having to decide whether or not they're going to go into dorm actually in all the way in October or November and that was even worse for people who are applying to programs uh that they wouldn't hear back from uh until you know February for example which was the case for myself when I applied to a study abroad program and I didn't know if I was going to be living in Ann Arbor until February uh so you know

112a lot of people would get stuck in leases in October or November um uh before they even knew what the future was going to be like for them um and the idea was to push this back to more align it with the University's dorm schedule actually in addition to some other things but um the purpose was to push back the leasing cycle so that it more lined with both the dorm schedules um program schedules for students unfortunately what we've seen is a lot of these wait lists I think which has been kind of defeating the purpose of it I hope that that addresses some of those points but I we are definitely trying to you know hear from undergrads uh just last week it was we were tabling on campus talking to to undergraduates uh

113with a with a lawyer to give them some advice well thank you I appreciate I appreciate you listening um uh I just you know I just want to say like I think that you know it October and November I get get is you know I get that that's early and things transpire through the year but where the calendar is now is exceedingly late in the year and and I think that people aren't looking at you know when can you show an apartment well you can show an apartment when people are you know are studying for exams I mean just like April when they're getting ready for finals I mean the kids are gone from campus you know just weeks later I personally would not want to be an undergrad and not know where I was

114living next year until like a few weeks before I was leaving for campus I think it's just gone a little it's just well not even a little I think it's just gone too far and too long in an effort to help a segment of the community I think we're in fact if we're we're forgetting about like sort of the the bigger group that's it thank you very much though I appreciate you listening and um I really would welcome the opportunity to figure out where where we could get more input from a variety of viewpoints here most definitely and I just wanted to uh say before we go off to Richard that we are doing um a joint project with Central student government to um to do a survey of undergraduate students and graduate students but

115the majority of the responses are going to be from undergrads we have a few hundred responses so far and hopefully we'll get that number up um but I do want to say that uh if um if a lease ends at the end of August it would be free to show and to sign at the end of March which is a little bit you know that is definitely before finals but I do understand the point thank you to the caller for calling in if there are any other speakers who would like to speak you can raise your hand all right see no hands raise will close um okay um in which case we will go on to adjournment um sorry everybody uh but I really do appreciate that the public comment I'm glad we made time

116for that uh so can we have a motion to adjourn again motion explosion by Lucy second enthusiastically second okay thank you Nick all those in favor of joining say yay yay all those opposed say nay okay with that we are adjourned