001order um welcome to the Wednesday December 14 2022 electronic meeting of the Ann Arbor design review board this meeting is held electronically to protect public health and safety due to the covid-19 virus and to comply with the orders issued by the governor the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services and the Washington County Health Department we intend to conduct this meeting similar to an in purpose an in-person meeting however please be patient if there are technical issues like my ability to read from us uh public comment will be via telephone only to speak during any of the public comment opportunities please call 877-852-5247 or 888-788-0099 and enter meeting ID 974-6174-9412 and I think CTN puts that up on the screen for people don't they Courtney uh I believe so I'm not 100 certain though all
002right well I'll repeat it again when it's time I'll repeat those numbers again when it's time for a public comment um this information is also available on the publish agenda in the Public Notices section of the city website and on the broadcast of this meeting on CTN Channel 16 a t channel 99 and online at www.a2gov.org forward slash watch ctm the design review board is a volunteer resident board appointed by the mayor and confirmed by city council the purpose of the design review board is to Foster excellence in the design of Ann Arbor's built environment and to advise applicants on how to project how a project can meet the spirit intent of the downtown design guidelines first the applicant will have 10 minutes to present their proposed project to the design review board then the
003design review board will hold a discussion on this on the design of the project and then following the presentation discussion members of the public are permitted to comment for up to three minutes and with that if Jeff you can call roll yep uh board member Singleton remember Mitchell here remember Perkins here remember Ramson here John katarski here remember Burns member Cooper member Kinley you have quorum thank you first starter business then is approval of our agenda um if everybody's had a chance to look it over if I could um have a motion foreign moved by Laurie seconded by dick um any further discussion about our agenda all those in favor signify by saying I yeah hi opposed same sign agenda is approved and then on to approval of the minutes of the um looks like
004we're approving minutes from the July 13 2022 design review board meeting not not the October meeting I'm sorry that's incredible that's a typo it's the October okay meeting okay um which I wasn't at um so for those of you who have had a chance to read them uh if I could have a motion to approve second somebody I think Bill Bill seconded okay okay moved by uh Lori and seconded by Bill all those uh any further discussion about the minutes all those in favor signify by saying aye raise your hand I pose same sign approve uh the minutes for the October meeting are approved and then looks like our first item of regular business is um Dr 22-2008 350 South Fifth Avenue um do we have somebody uh do we have the petitioner first present
005or does staff give their review first the petitioner is going to present first they'll have up to 10 minutes they'll be able to share their uh screen and describe the project uh after that members of the board can provide comment and at the very end staff will offer a few nuggets of wisdom and I would like to recuse myself from the discussion as an employee of Smith group who will be presenting today all right thank you Lori um so if the petitioner can take the opportunity to fill us in on their project I think Mr Kinkade was going to share his screen if I'm not mistaken there we go I'm I'm still working on promoting panelists okay yeah this is this is the 18K it should be up to ulc yep okay and my colleagues
006will be stepping in here to to start it up great yeah this is Michael Johnson here um are we all are we ready to go are we waiting on folks still I I believe we're good to start perfect well so I'm on Michael Johnson I lead our Urban Design Team um that cuts across our Detroit and Ann Arbor office from Smith group uh Lindsay and I are here in Ann Arbor today and um excited to uh you know spend a few minutes with you all today presenting you uh some of the updates on the 350 South 5th project uh certainly a continuation of the process that um uh was a Community Driven process um and um many of you uh were partooken various iterations of the conversations uh that we've had today so keep scrolling
007through the slides Dan uh just a quick um uh snippet of the of the uh kind of where we are next slide I wanted to just really emphasize as we kind of get into this presentation uh that that you know obviously an important piece on behalf of the Housing Commission the city and various departments um of a larger plan to build affordable housing units uh in Ann Arbor and in downtown uh you know as part of mitigating one of what we think uh and many of you uh know is one of our important existential crises in in the city next slide um you know the the as I alluded to earlier this the information you'll see today is is very much in line with and a continuation of the area plan and uh the Pud
008process that was presented to you all and this body and unanimously um approved by City Council in April next slide and then uh just real quickly as context and we're not going to get into all the details here but you know I think many of you know and are aware of that this is part of a larger four-year effort uh to change the narrative around affordable housing and mixed use development uh in downtown uh but also you know I think we want to emphasize um a great example of what's possible when the community City staff the Housing Commission the DDA the transit authority OSI and others collaborate to achieve outcomes that we haven't been able to achieve in our in our downtown before so with that as a background I'll pass it uh over to
009my teammates to kind of get into the details today hi everybody we're having trouble hearing Lindsay oh yeah can you hear me okay A little better okay I'll speak up really loudly um so here we have just some project stats um things to note here um we've got two 18-story towers uh the west building has uh 95 affordable units in it and the East building has uh approximately 220 percent of which will be affordable the other is market rate um I'm gonna flip to the next slide I think you know as Ann Arbor residents we're all pretty familiar with the site uh formerly known as the old y lot um I think you know currently it's obviously a parking lot um and feels pretty underutilized as its current use um especially given its proximity to
010the transit center uh the library and Main Street um flip to the next slide uh so you know is the surrounding context um I think the design team has been um uh taking into account uh the surrounding context as well as the um residential units to the South that you can see here in letters d and e H next slide um and then here you can see you know the neighboring parking structure um letter G and then H is the a new high-rise building uh pretty much kitty corner to the site at Maine and William I didn't go to the next slide please um so I'm gonna spend some time here on the slight plan and this is uh uh you know we've obviously been working since we submitted our application um at the deadline
011a month ago and so this is um an updated site plan and what you have all seen in your packet um I'll be going over it briefly but happy to get into uh more detail um and discussion but here you can see um the first floor uh shaded in dark blue um there's a white dash line is the building or a canopy overhead um and then you can see the site's pretty much divided into halves we've got the streetscape first floor of the building um you know really trying to activate activate this corner between fourth and fifth Avenues um we have pretty standard streetscape in terms of trees and curbed Planters and bike parking uh residents will be entering the building off of Fifth Avenue I don't know Dan you can point to the entries
012um well there's a doorway there and then um to the other Tower along East Williams Street and then residential or excuse me the retail um faces along William Street and the entry to that will likely be along William Street um but to be determined um so moving North on the site you can see there is I believe it's like a 15 foot maybe 18 foot wide service Lane in egress um so this will be used for a waste collection and deliveries all back of house for the the building um and then moving to the other half of the site um you know we have a unique use where we're trying to accommodate um AAA ta operations and we want to make this feel very uh deliberately designed and separate so the ridership doesn't feel like
013they're you know waiting for buses at the back of a high-rise um and so we've been very careful about how we're designing this and this is where you'll see most of the updates um in your design packet um compared to this slide here um we've been working very closely with triple A Ta on the design of this and hearing um from them you know we really want to be careful about uh designing these two sites so that the bus platforms feel as one and writers can easily hop off a bus coming through our site transfer to um a bus on 4th Avenue or just north of the transit center and so we've provided some connections via steps uh a ramp and then um to the far left side of those plan we have um a
014plaza where the grades kind of flatten out and we can do some trees and grates and benches but we want to keep it feeling like a plaza so that there's as much uh flow through a pedestrian activity as possible um I think I'll keep it brief on this site because we know where short end times so um I will hand it to the architecture team great thank you very much Lindsay and thanks again to all of you for for coming on the call with us this afternoon what we want to do now is transition into a series of views to share with you the look and feel of the building we know you've had a chance to look at this relatively closely we want to first of all though set this in context so what
015we're looking at right now is a perspective that's looking Northwest you see on the right side the 18-story East Tower which was mentioned in market rate and mixed income here about 200 units and then over to the left you can see the fully affordable Tower at 17 stories uh split by a vertical strike of the stairway here the notable things here that we want folks to understand is as we set up the overall project to deliver on the really important mission and vision here to to have affordable housing and housing in General within Ann Arbors to begin to set the stage to align with the context so well we're delivering a range of of units here we're also paying close attention to the adjacencies including a two-story Podium that's stepping down at fourth and fifth
016along William aligning the height uh with the adjacent library that you can see here you know to the right with the brick masonry existing homes also uh to the South paying close attention again to the materiality there uh and then activating the ground plane with active retail and Resident lobbies to really bring life into this space uh where we know uh today exists of parking lot we also want to make sure that we're framing the entry um wave into the Blake Transit Center for triple ATA here which you can see on the right side of the base of the of the uh of the building um and to bring that into a covered space to house that and provide a great Rider experience here again providing dignity and access to to Riders uh who really
017who really need it so this is a great illustration of the impact we think the project can have and the way that it can align with the existing context so here's a reverse view for you actually looking now um Southwest and in this case now the Blake Transit Center is in the foreground and you can see the relationship between it then and and the new proposed building you can also see that canopy element that comes across framing that entry point for buses and Riders and really um creating a strong relationship between the brick masonry Podium that's outlined on the new building and the library across the street as well as the houses uh to the South there one minute remaining okay okay so we'll speed through these okay um first floor plan I think was
018well covered the purples retail yellow are lobbies let's move on and second floor is an amenity level the only interesting fact here is the generators in the left-hand corner and that's due to site constraints we have that inside the building the third floor is when the units start to be placed so the green hair is representing the units and the yellow is an amenity space for the West Tower and there's a small amenity space for the East Tower but the towers are actually separate so that they can function independently next and then 4 through 16 this is your typical arrangement of dwelling units we've got seven units per floor on the fourth uh um per floor for the West Tower and we've got 13 per floor for the East Tower that'll give us 95 units
019in the West Tower and 199 units in the East Tower with 152 one bedroom and 47 two-bedroom all the units in the West Tower will be one bedroom and that allows us for a total of 135 affordable units back to you Dan great and we'll give you to close here a few quick glimpses of the project again down on William uh looking toward the west again seeing the podium configuration the relationship to the street and streetscape kind of coming back on the other side toward the north looking back over the Blake into the building again with the context Beyond and then a close-up here in the facade looking at the the southwest corner here uh into the the affordable Tower with a really nice amenity uh at that top level of the of the third
020floor and a representation here of some of the materials that we're considering natural materials warm colors warm tones uh and materials that will provide us depth from the facade both for Relief and texture but also for sun shading on the south facade you can see how some of that kind of forms up here with the adjacent balcony space facing on to William uh and then to close out one higher level uh outdoor Terrace at the top of the West Tower uh as you can see from from the top here so we will close there and uh would love to jump into discussion thank you all right thank you for that um I guess anybody that wants to comment from the board please feel free to jump in I have some comments from Tamara that I
021will share then I will share those now um and I happen to share the same concern it's not really a concern but Cameron's comment was that we keep hearing this being referred to as two towers and they don't really read that way um when we saw this project a couple of years ago I believe the West end of the building that Tower was 13 stories in the section of the market rate housing was higher and um what we have now other than being separated by the stair Tower and some changes in materials it doesn't really read his two towers and I'm not sure if that's really important or not but um it from from a from amassing standpoint and from an architectural standpoint it's not reading as two towers that was her comment and I
022happened to agree with it um other than that she is very supportive of the project likes the idea that um uh it's happening on this site the affordable the affordable housing component and also the interaction with the uh Transit Center um those are all positive things for the community so she's very supportive of the project dick go ahead hi Jeff um I see Jennifer Hall has joined us and and I was curious in if you could explain Jennifer the it is the difference between the West Tower and these Tower both ownership and management and the type of unit or all three well will a private developer own the East Tower um ownership um yes separate two different ownership entities uh Property Management to be determined how that would be worked out um and the tenants
023it'd be a different legal entities and the Tenant population be different and the way it's financed would be different so they're they'd definitely be I guess maybe not from the architectural perspective but from all the other perspectives we're designing it to be a two different towers with a with it actually has a it when you look at the hallways and it looks like they're connected they're actually um separated by doors that allows them to share a um freight elevator to move large items up and down but other than that they'll function completely separate from each other they each have their own Waste Management they have their own separate elevators they have their own separate uh Property Management staff you know Services whatever's on each site that part of it'll be completely different from each other
024foreign you're going through the planning process now and then we'll solicit proposals from Developers for these towers that do I have that right yeah we originally planned on going from PUD and supplemental regs to soliciting a uh developer to work with to get through site plan process and as we were literally writing the Erp and thinking about the project we knew there were so many public purposes that we wanted to accomplish um that we really wanted to make sure we designed those into the project particularly related to working with the triple ACA working towards the city's a230 uh um goals working on our affordability goals and how we designed the building so it felt like we should make those kinds of decisions first and then we'd have a RFP that we could present out to
025the private sector to get us through the financing and development component that was that answered a lot of questions didn't have you know questions that were still um uncertain as a respondent to an RFP and um like mitigated that risk as well and so that's why we ended up switching the order of of the way we're approach approaching it thank you I understand so the goal is to get the developers something that is as close to shovel ready as possible without needing them to go through the planning process but they won't be at the table for the planning process okay thanks will the developers then be bound to this design these materials so to speak um I mean how bringing in a private developer that you haven't identified how will they how will what we're
026looking at today translate into what they build I was gonna let my uh architecture team talk about that I I think that the exterior of what we're looking at shouldn't change unless we had to come back and ask for an actual change that gets approved um by the Planning Commission or whichever body would have to approve that what we've left some flexibility in is although we've designed um the interior you know they will have some more flexibility on the interior of the East Tower um than on the West Tower that's all affordable does that describe that right Dan yep yep and I would just uh just add by saying I think the way we've tried to approach this from a design perspective and your your question is is right on point it highlights an important
027factor in this process um what we're trying to do is make sure as we move through the design process and particularly lead up to schematic design um that we can Define um the shape and form and materiality of the building its performance characteristics so that there can be a better understanding of of overall cost uh both capital and operating going forward and the ways in which the project can meet some of the larger objectives of the planned unit development and supplemental regulations that were laid out in the start of the effort and so we can use those as real guidelines for us going forward to make sure people you know can anticipate what's going to come out of it uh but also really important that we hit the market in a good way so people
028have a good frame of reference around what we're trying to achieve with it we have another person on our team that hasn't been promoted if you could promote uh McKinnon as well just in case we need him to respond there it is thank you very much foreign comments from other design board members I think Bill had his hand up Bill I did I have a couple physical questions uh one with the um the buses under a canopy I assume until the buses are are electrified you still have a fair amount of exhaust how has that handle it is that was that taken into account that there'll be quite a bit of exhaust trapped under that canopy coming up and over what what I'll leave you addressed that if it is a matter of concern yeah
029that's a that's a great question and maybe I'll jump in first and my colleagues can come in as well I think the the big objective for us of course is to make sure that there's a really good ridership experience here the canopy can we think can help support that uh especially during inclement weather but at the same time um as you say before the fleet can fully change over to lecture electrified we do want to make sure that we're thinking through microclimate and ways the prevailing winds flow through and so actually during the Pud process we did have conversations and did do modeling on that to understand where Peak winds are coming through where low winds are coming through both seasonally and at different times of day and so we've we've started to map that
030out here we what we want to do is also look at what we've done most recently including the canopy and model that again to better understand what's happening down there and to see if there's any supplemental uh wind movement that we need to that we need to provide in that location are there service doors on the back side of the first floor of the building there's other entries certainly not pedestrian entries I assume but are there service entries that if I'm just saying if there is a micro climate there it could be a pretty trapped amount that could come rushing in if they're service Vehicles bring food in or whatever of that side right right see I can speak there's there's a like waste collection and there's loading and there's exit doors for the stairs
031so that would really be in One Direction but we've added exhaust directly for the waste and loading in order to make sure that that can be their air exchange can be um more than what you might typically have I guess is what I want to say but they've been working on that to include those so the plans actually show that in the packet you have is that on the upper floors you'll see that there's an exhaust shop next to each trash you to to help exhaust those spaces thank you one other question just curiosity are you thinking of using mass Timber Construction no that'll be allowed up to 18 stories on Center spacing for Wood Construction would really play Havoc with our plans at this time and would become an impossibility for the bus lanes
032to get through so um we weren't able to to make that one a win thank you I'm just I'm excited about the whole concept from what I've seen so yeah we're with you foreign it's a little confusing I can't quite tell what's happening on top of the canopy where it's not covered by the the towers and some of the the North View and some of the other views you get a sense that there's a railing around it and there's a covered portion that's maybe related to the units but is the whole canopy treated as a roof deck or is it you know some of it's just not finished yeah you know I think in the design process that's something that we're we're moving through right now as it stands uh we're looking at that to
033to be a basically a ballasted roof or a green roof potentially uh there that we have thought about that as a potential um amenity but we're kind of working through that it's it's a kind of main point that we're reviewing right now in the design process I assume that you've at least considered maybe skylights they'd have to be fairly large but but skylights is a possibility to get some direct light down into that we we have actually and with our with our Lighting Group and on our design team we've looked closely at large-scale roof monitors that could bring light through and we're trying to evaluate how that works with the structure overall and what amount of light we could bring we could bring down it is it's notable that with or without the canopy this
034side of the building is the North Face right and so it's you know it's perpetually shaded uh in a way so we're trying to kind of figure out what that ambient light delivery would be on the ground okay thanks I have a question about this doesn't really relate to the design of this building um but I guess wondering kind of where does AATA stand in all of this um I mean in effect the city is giving a huge gift to the transit um component of This Town by allowing them access into the site and so forth and I know we talked about it two years ago in the meeting about and dick brought this up uh in detail was a way to make the transit center then relate to the lanes that we're providing for
035the buses here and I'm not seeing that being addressed in any and I know you're not designing their building for them but where do they stand in participating with this basically this gift that's being given to them hey Jeff I mean I can chime in here from a design perspective and I think Jennifer can chime in for more of the you know kind of um other things if we need to but uh from a pure design perspective um the triple ATA has been and continued to participate in our weekly design meetings um and has been a key member of the design uh coordination here to make sure that both uh you know the adequate space for bus and pedestrians and that's in that area is is in consideration uh as you can imagine still very
036much in progress and a lot of questions um and you know uh I think Lindsay did a great job of kind of laying out you know what we hope to achieve knowing that that partnership is going to have to continue on both sites and through a DTE easement and so I think I wanted to just kind of raise uh all of all of those things that are uh you know continually we'll have to push on to achieve some of the goals that I you know laid out at the beginning the other point too is uh this is also happening in a parallel with a redesign for fourth uh fourth right which is a dda-driven project again um you know in totality uh kind of reimagining the complete Transit uh experience um at the downtown station
037so we're very much coordinating all those efforts you saw kind of the in progress notion of those uh today but they have very much been uh active participants in in our in our meetings today okay so I'd just like to add that I like to joke but it's true that it's a public Public public partnership that's the city of Ann Arbor the Ann Arbor Housing Commission the DDA and the triple ATA so that was also a reason why we want all of us in the room trying to figure out how this will work uh it's very complicated and complex as you can imagine the first floor in particular yeah related to that I noticed that one of the City objectives was to increase the number of bus spaces and I know we're losing some on
038fourth or two or three on Fourth and we're losing the air ride on on Fifth and it looks like the most recent site playing Lindsay talked about uh shows three new spaces so is it a net loss or is it a wash or are we gaining something let me let me time in first then you can get into the details I mean dick we have um uh We've added four off-street bus parking spaces which um are we're looking at as uh transplanting existing on Street spaces to off Street spaces so that's a net neutral number of spaces but as we're understanding from the triple ATA uh still very important for them to complete that uh Island and the the notion of a of a double-sided transit station uh for their ability to you know um
039think about transfers in different ways wind then added to new plans for fourth there's opportunities to add ads significant um bus uh bus staging areas and so um again this project specifically is it would be neutral from a number of spaces but but I think we need to continue to think about this as a continuation including fourth redesign I really like the new mini Plaza between Blake and and the new drop-off stations that's that's a good idea the connection between the building and and the new bus spaces to the South is difficult because all of the non-window species in Blake are on that South Side the bathrooms and the offices and so there isn't a good visual connection so moving around the west side of the building makes sense and I like that Gary I
040think if you're talking you're muted I did I was just asking if you could just clarify where the different materials are being used I'm not sure where there's terracotta versus concrete but the brackets yeah sure um let me uh let me grab a screen real quick second okay can you see that floor plan floor plan yep so why don't we come around here really quickly on the materials um as we're you know moving through the design process so things are still in flux for us uh what a couple of things to highlight one is the wraparound uh brick masonry that we're showing here both a darker and a charcoal tone and a lighter one that matches uh the uh kind of adjacent contextual brick that comes over and up on the West Tower and then
041on the East Tower uh where we have uh the design it kind of opens up a little bit more this is where we're introducing uh a stronger kind of framing element in here uh we're looking at a range of different uh components right now um everything from uh potentially a precast concrete element to uh a machine generated metal covering here or something that starts to move toward terracotta uh overall we're you know we're conscious also of weight here we're trying to lose a little bit of weight in the process if you will to make sure we're also not beefing up all this the structure we need which also adds a lot of embodied carbon in the project and so we're weighing all those options back and forth thinking through those materials their performance overall and
042particularly uh when we designed this component here that we start to think about speed to installation so that when we do this the project can move quickly and we minimize the total dimension of construction time to limit the disruptions on site and that's something we're really Keen uh to think through so that the elements that you see maybe pre uh pre-combined before going on uh and then allowing us to kind of move around the building of relatively rapidly on that uh Dan if you could talk about the windows they look to be floor to ceiling is that just a starting point or is that really part of the design uh it is part of the design we don't come all the way down to the floor it's just shy that we have an edge on
043that um uh but we do we wanted to kind of can consider this piece a kind of more open uh facade and we're looking through it again the depth of our of our facade so make sure we can find ways to mitigate of solar gain here while also just really providing those big open views we're also what we want what we do here too is you can see uh some of the infill panel that's present there it shifts around to give some dynamism to the facade but it also helps us end partitions so that where we have demising walls between units or you have partitions on a say a one bedroom unit they can dead end into that rather than hitting the glass so that we can keep that nice open kind of glaze look
044while then balancing it with uh brick masonry or terracotta infill foreign like the uh essentially floor to ceiling windows and I like the inset brick panels which give you some variety and uh um you got an awful lot of south facing equipment yeah decide to deal with and the shading might be an issue at some point yeah it's a great point it's something we're really conscious of in working really closely with our lighting designers and our Engineers to make sure that we're we're creating something that's that's viable here while also not kind of creating an overbearing facade it's a great point Dan you talk about uh light shelves in the narrative and um uh some shading devices and Rain screen and you probably haven't gotten to the detail enough but the detailed perspectives don't show
045any of those and I share Gary's concern that there's a lot of south facing glass and the Heat game is is going to be pretty difficult yeah we we are like I said we are studying that right now and and at this stage of the design we know we're going to have to make some moves along the way uh but we are trying to think think that through and to really determine what those those um uh kind of divisional members you see in the facade where they put where they're positioned as outboard so we can get more depth there and in our cross sections we're studying that right now and uh thinking through okay if we have the infill piece uh that's on those panels uh you know we can run a rain screen there
046that can stand back we can have the frame kind of stand proud of that and particularly the horizontal components um and actually make them so they're not uh symmetrical in the bevel but actually the bevel is deeper on the top giving us a greater projection outward and we're studying those those angles uh right now as well as uh even potential members that could be closer to the floor elevation so that where we may have more sunlight coming in there we can actually block it uh there which to the points that have been made here would minimize some of the visible uh you know see-through transparent glazing that would be present um one of the comments that Tamara passed along that just occurred to me is the potential to turn that turn that stair Tower uh
047into something that is more of a glass element um yeah using that as a better way to separate the so-called Two Towers um was a thought that she had that's a it's a great it's a great point and it's it's really one of the the reasons we have this feature here um if you can see my cursor yep um it provides a nice kind of striking line between the two the two towers themselves um and it in that division it also kind of helps us come step out to that that um Frontage of the zero lot line and roll up honestly what we've talked about a couple times is you know are there is there an art component to this is it a an expanded mural uh is it something that they even incorporate uh
048you know photovoltaics on it where you know those are those are things that are in play at any we would look at in any design process so it is it is fluid but we do like the element itself as as a kind of component that breaks up uh that facade and obviously handles uh important egress for us because it's it's noteworthy that we recognize the building is is large overall but I think everyone on the call can appreciate just how tight that floor plan is on the ground floor that Sandy was presenting earlier in particularly when Lindsay was putting it in the site condition um so we're we're putting a lot of stuff in a really Slim space and it's kind of forcing us to push some things out like the stair and allows them
049to step back the full facade and let that stand proud on that on that South facade so I'd like to talk about the street level but I don't know John were you wanting to talk about no go ahead go ahead okay okay um so uh we know that the crossings between the library and the AAA Transit Center have been a problem in the past and I understand I think from Jeff that there's some work being done looking at that can you talk about it's my sense that that corner is pretty abrupt at um Fifth and William uh about any thought of bringing the entrance to that retail there uh at the corner or sometime somehow uh cutting that off or providing an opportunity to try to draw pedestrians to that corner rather than going straight
050across in advance of the crosswalk in the intersection yes I'll jump in and then my colleagues can come right in so we do so there's a couple notable things here is as you look at in the model it tends to make the ground plane look flat of course it's pitching down from here over to here and my team can correct me but I think this is a nominally a little north of three feet Delta as it comes down um yeah thank you um and so as we as we do that we're trying to find key locations along that facade where we can actually have entries for for retail I can tell you right now we're contemplating uh two or three along the South facade here because we can imagine independent uh retailers here and one
051here at the corner exactly to your point we feel like this corner in itself is really important this this is a key Corner obviously relationship to to the library and the context around um um the the bike pathway and it's just it's important so we're making that a kind of primary feature here just as it is on the west side but in this case this could be more retail driven whereas on the west side that is going to be uh resident Lobby and entry right and the west side is a whole different character but this corner is super important and um you know to the extent that you can try to pull people in there and not you'll still now with the additional Lane you'll now have maybe three three lanes of tre or three
052uh pedestrian Crossings along uh along division there or Fifth Avenue excuse me to try to get in so it seems like that's a natural to try to draw people there at the corner um the other comment I have and question I have is um the the bike um the protected bikeways are different and new in the town and it's really you know how do you see the retail Frontage along that where most of the downtown has a parking Lane for instance right next to the curb um you know or is that going to be free space is it how are you going to treat that maybe differently than we might traditionally in other parts of the downtown I mean Wendy I can chime in just from a design perspective um but I want to um
053you know maybe caveat my response as to you know we haven't done any market analysis on you know uh what the demand might be for for those kind of spaces and the and the retailers I do think um you know um we think it's important space we think it's viable space from an interior perspective um and um I also think it could be quite um uh quite lovely space even with uh you know the protected cycle track adjacent to it um I think the the way that um the standard has started to address William Street turning the corner on Main just down uh the street and you know we'll see how those those spaces start to fill out and um you know retail is in a different place than than it's been in the past
054and will continue to shift and change um but but we do see a lot of potential uh for space there to to blur inside and outside uh boundaries to kind of continue the activity down uh William uh adjacent to the the library and and frankly you know we're uh we're a couple blocks from Main Street too right so um I think it um we're thinking about the scale of that space from a pedestrian standpoint on the curb similarly to how we would if there were a if there were a traffic uh you know a parking Lane there um and and I think from a kind of continuation of the streetscape uh that's that's already been started yeah I think the thing that puzzles me is um with the parking Lane it's pretty static in terms
055of as a pedestrian you expect those Vehicles not to be moving in the parking Lane and with the the cycle track with bicycles going there are people going to be like just casually hanging out and you know using that space in front of stores I don't know it's a it's an interesting question that you know whether you put up some type of um not barrier but some type of indication that that's something that they don't want to step into if they're using the sidewalk remember landscape perspective we do um get it that and I mean the nice thing about not having cars in front of your site is uh you don't have to worry about car doors opening up uh so we have curbed Planters instead of tree grates which is I think cookery asset
056um and we can add in perennials and other Landscaping there and then we also have um quite amount a large amount of bike Hoops lining that street so there really isn't much um uh room for pedestrians to move from the sidewalk into the bike lane I mean they can if they want but it wouldn't be a natural movement necessarily other than you know hopping out a bike lane probably and parking your bike um but I don't think people will just be like walking into the bike lane for any reason um great and just one last uh observation personal observation I love it when there's glass and lots of transparency at the street level but I've noticed there have been some retailers that have come in and then put their equipment and blocking and sales whatever
057and it looks really horrible um so I you know hopefully there'll be enough flexibility in your design to you know put some uh you know opaque components there not have it all glass along that retail Frontage thanks Jeremy John you got your hand up and you've been very patient that's quite all right you know I might divert it to public art Gary did you have a thought you wanted to bring into the conversation no not me uh okay um well first of all I absolutely love the project uh and and won the um you know we've been trying to increase Workforce housing uh for a long time I've been in town for just 20 years I'm a new kid uh but all the time I've been here it's uh that has been a conversation so
058uh Applause to to Jennifer and and and her team uh for doing this this is awesome uh that um I'm not an architect but I'm looking at this and the massing seems great um I I see it as two towers only in this respect and my understanding and reading the material that it has two entrances and two separate lobbies so the communities in those particular areas are coming into that structure in two different places and uh so I can see how from the ground you can see it as as two towers but looking at it it doesn't really look necessarily um um like two towers but I I think that the massing of it is is just awesome um I don't know whether the example of the precast concrete will continue but I love that
059uh and uh it gives a very elegant feel to it um that um and I mean I think the most important thing is that you know 95 low-income people will will have a place to live here in Ann Arbor and I think the uh the mixed use is going to add an additional 40. so we're talking about 130 folks and that is huge um and I'm so pleased that uh uh that Jennifer has found a way of uh threading this needle that uh that it still is a part of public housing but it also is market rate and and run by another entity so uh kudos to that and it looks and it looks great from you know what what I'm seeing I want to speak to two other issues that drill into it is
060one the the carbon neutrality uh goals for the city and the environmental sustainability uh and uh the trauma-informed design which I think that Jennifer really wants to um to have impacted in that whole design process and and I think it gets to some of uh the art uh but uh it'll it'll be a bit of a circuitous route uh the solar panels I think the staff has already mentioned that uh that um that the design might you might want to include solar panels and I would agree with that and in fact I think that what's on the screen now is the third floor and um that um that area uh has a kind of a Pergola that I think you could really do some wonderful uh designs of solar panels on top of that pergola
061uh and as far as that vertical strip going up that would be awesome uh that uh to uh to really incorporate uh solar panels vertically and um I know that the folks that are installing through the solarize program for the city want to do that and so this would be excellent that uh that this Housing Commission project sort of demonstrates that it really is workable and um that I I know there was some concern by staff and to to have the inserts um um I guess on the on the on the west side is symmetrical on the east side it's not exactly symmetrical and would like to see a drawing of it and I I tend to agree um and I just wouldn't stop of that one huge vertical I would think about also the
062verticals that are within those those precasts so any way you can and to me it would be a a creative process it would be a work of art using uh solar panels you don't have to just stick the things on and have it one big Mass so it could be a wonderful design with photovoltaic panels um and um the the other part is the live roofs I don't know whether uh Dan that uh you you have some some flat uh sort of roofs and I don't know whether you're planning that to be uh to be live or not um but um I would encourage you to consider it and um and also as an option and maybe I mean if we really want to get creative and I know you know you know you're you're
063trying to sort through just let's let's get through the the the zoning issues but uh combine kind of a vertical vegetation up that huge vertical along with photovoltaic it could really be a stunning uh and and I do believe uh that you you do have kind of some vertical vegetation on that uh on that little deck outside um and um and I would encourage the green roofs you know um uh and this this vertical gardening just to sort of kind of fold into micro Gardens so that what what I love uh what calms me I'm 76 and you know we we have some water dripping outside in our yard just literally not a gushing waterfall literally dripping water just I think can lower my blood pressure 20 points so it uh using water using plants
064and and activating a kind of a garden feel to that um I think would be absolutely awesome um but uh let me also get to Art making I think that you know our making is a healing uplifting act I think Jennifer uh knows this and uh and so I don't know what your plans are but uh I'm I'm sure that that Jennifer recognizes that some of these uh common spaces could entail art making as well well as art display and I've had conversations with the AAA ta folks so I don't know five six years ago about using um the inside of the bus advertising for displays and so you're right next to it you know to me I would love that you would get on the outside of those buses they're not that expensive and
065to really connect uh particularly what you know what they are looking for is Civic motivating artwork so if the message is um that um like Nancy Margolis has uh uh embracing our differences and it's really been uh accepted you know by the town and so if the kind of the artwork couldn't get into that and that might be a very good selling point when you start getting in to those sort of details is that the residents here could make art as a trauma informed design display it within their building and then also get it on the buses so um um in any event uh you know maybe we're getting too far in the weeds and and probably I usually do so my wife if she's not here she would give me the hook but in
066any event uh Jennifer this is awesome uh I think I think I I I I'm so excited and I think Wendy is excited that the thing is just happening I mean you know that uh I think 20 years ago this was just starting I mean I went we we were at the Y I mean we we had a membership in the in the Y and that you know and it wasn't the nicest workout room I I must admit but uh or the pool but it was and then that whole Saga of it coming down to this day so uh very good story thanks Jennifer thanks team yeah you're welcome and I we think there's lots of exciting possibilities to incorporate art in into this inside and out like when someone's like hey I live in
067that building where the is the thing you know that makes it exciting not just the brick building that's over there so yeah we're excited about that yeah thank you and if the art commission can help in any way so we're we're we're we're available if if it helps yeah thank you very much appreciate it thank you all right any other comments dick yeah Dan could you switch back to that street view looking West that we were looking at before right here yeah thank you um I I always try to tie it back to our guidelines which were I I'm the nerd in the group that does that I guess but um one of the guidelines that Jeff actually cited in in the scaff report was that the entries be be something special I think it's
068C2 and the the entry to the East Tower I agree with Wendy would really be better more toward the corner them in than in its current location that is adjacent to the service Lane I just think there's a missed opportunity there um and then another guideline that Jeff cited in his comments was surface texture color and and detail and and I hate to disagree with John but I I don't think the East Tower is there yet um The Narrative talks about exciting things but they're just not there yet and it I think it lacks detail and and color and interests and um so I think there's a lot more work to be done on on the East Tower it's a large large wall on on our Fringe neighborhood to the South and it should just
069be more interesting to look at than it currently is I think so there's opportunity there we've got the people in place to do it and and I know you can and and just going to assume you just haven't gotten there yet but I'd encourage you to move in that direction thank you is that Jeff yeah yep uh thanks um I just wanted to uh share a few um thoughts if um if no one else um had anything to say uh I I just had a few thoughts one was we don't really know what the direction of retail will be downtown currently it's it's pretty soft uh maybe some might say extremely soft this is a tough block this is not Main Street or Liberty or Washington or Ashley or state it's it's a tough Block
070in terms of drawing people here for a retail experience or a restaurant experience so um my suggestion was to consider designing the second floor of the East Tower to accommodate of the potential for future residential uses that way you know years from now if retail just is not working on the ground floor the the owner may want to um shift the community rooms or and the uh the fitness center or the bathrooms um down to the first floor and then capture that second floor for more residential uses so I I would encourage you to consider that in terms of um uh designing utilities and and that that sort of thing so that's one comment that I had um someone mentioned the comment that I had about solar on the roof so I just want to
071reiterate that thank thank you uh maybe that was John um and then lastly I wanted to um incur with uh dick with his thoughts on the East Tower I I actually really love how the West Tower turned out I think it's really lovely I think that it has it feels warmer to me and I like the symmetry of the brick panels um I think the East Tower feels cooler to me and um I'd be interested to see if the East Tower could include could show different colors of uh the brick and maybe different placements uh for the for the brick panels um I I sure like that salmon colored terracotta or terracotta color that you have on that on the um West Tower um but it gets um it's a little less inspiring to me
072on the East Tower and that's just personal preference and that that's all I had and um uh Jeff um whenever you'd like me to summarize the comments that I've heard um I'd be happy to do that um well yeah um so are there any other comments from other board members um what point should we do the public comment part Jeff um I think that you could um uh do the public comment now okay I'm happy to summarize at the very end all right that sounds good [Music] um so I need to find my cheat sheet darn it I got so many screens open right now I can't see straight and and would you like me to stop sharing or continue I I think you can leave it up there uh okay well um I had
073my narrative uh here somewhere got it okay to speak during the public comment phase which is now uh please call 877-852-5247 or 888-788-0099 and enter meeting ID 974-6174-9412 and I guess we can give that a minute or so to see if we get any uh response according to those calls coming to you they do and I don't see anyone raising their hand right now okay and Jeff let why don't you go ahead and summarize what you heard great and um after the summary of items I've heard if I've missed anything please please let me know you can let me know uh at this meeting now or you can email me call me whatever I'm going to try to just generally summarize with the main issues were that I I heard I heard questions uh maybe
074some concerns about air quality related to the buses and in the loading areas for for AATA um we're here to heard comments about um this being two separate buildings when it sort of has a feel of one building maybe with two separate sections um we um heard questions about um rain screens and windows and um whether these would be floor to ceiling windows we had questions about the loading areas and access to the north side um we had some opinions expressed by glazing there's a suggestion to reconsider the stair Tower and maybe adding a glass element to the stair Tower there's a question about whether the developer would be obligated to um to use um this design or whatever design gets approved at the site plan stage we did have um some discussion about pedestrian
075Crossings on North on South Fifth currently we have a lot of Crossings taking place between Blake and the library and those are mid block Crossings which are not particularly safe and so there was a suggestion to rethink of the orientation of access points to the building to try to encourage more people to cross at the corner um we we heard um a comment about the protected bike um Lanes um uh sort of replacing on-street parking and what that may might mean from a retail experience and a pedestrian experience you know are there ways to create delineations uh so pedestrians don't wander into bike Lanes uh so we had uh comments about that we had some comments about of the facade materials um we heard uh comments about GLA about the amount of glass and transparency
076on the first floor and that some retailers uh downtown will bring equipment and locate them right up uh to the to the glazing which is is um is unsightly and are there ways that we can maybe build in some um wall elements um to uh to discourage that uh we heard about um the the massing uh John in particular indicated that he he really um like the mass thing thought it looked great uh was interested in um issues related to carbon neutrality goals as well as trauma-informed design um John did mention uh solar panels and potential for solar panels including um possibly on some of the patio spaces and the pergolas of the patio spaces um possibly some vertical solar um and um John also mentioned um live roofs or living roofs with vegetation possibly
077vegetation growing up or down some of the some of the walls [Music] um uh John also talked about um Civic motivating art that you know might convey a message um and he used an example of of embracing our differences as a as a potential theme um uh trauma-informed design um uh could be infused into the building as well as on buses uh by residents who um live at 350 South South Fifth um dick indicated that he agreed with Wendy to uh that it might be good to rethink the main access point for the East Tower to try to encourage people at the corner you thought that that corner provided a unique opportunity as a focal point um and that um uh um dick also felt that uh the East Tower could use a little rethinking
078in terms of surface texture color detail um and so those are um some of the main comments that I heard um have I missed anybody's comment this would be a good time for me to add it and I think early on when you mentioned rain screens we could also include light shelves and shading devices yeah light shelves got it okay anything else that I missed any misspeak missing anything okay I think you did a pretty thorough job Jeff um okay okay thanks Jeff I I will summarize this in in writing and I'll email that to everyone so you'll have a second shot at making um modifications to it so you should see that within the next week or so great sounds great thank you all right well thank you to the design team for this
079project a good presentation and um I guess the only thing that I uh would interject at this point is when the time comes that a developer is identified that if significant changes are uh contemplated with the project I expect that this board will see it again thank you thank you for your time great thank you all thank you um so we move on to unfinished business uh what are we supposed to do with this calendar is this something that we this is the 2023 uh calendar that um is um being being presented um and uh you have an opportunity to um either modify it or to uh to approve it we think you should approve it without without discussion uh Leonard Tina motion so moved support moved by Wendy and supported by Gary any further
080comments discussion all those in favor signify by saying aye hold same sign all right looks like that's our calendar for next year great uh I do want to make a comment uh and thanking everybody that that was able to make it today and and the special thanks to those who have other plans and um rearrange them in order to make certain that we had a quorum for today so thanks very much for that uh uh do we have any Communications um we we don't have any Communications okay um and anybody hanging on the line Courtney no there don't appear to be any callers at this time if there's no further business then I will entertain a motion to adjourn so moved thank you moved by Gary seconded by uh bill uh almost in favor signify
081by saying aye aye aye opposed same sign they have good holidays everybody yeah Merry Christmas everybody and hopefully we'll have something to look at in 2023 see you next year bye now